Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always as he has every Wednesday for the past six years my co-host Tyler. What's up, brother? How you doing? I'm being my friends. Yep. Absolutely ready to rock and roll We are going to be talking about broken realms Kragnos tonight given that the full review in addition We're also joined by the re-rolling ones crew Brent is here Jack will be joining us shortly But you know, he's fine. He gets there whenever he gets here Brent. How you doing, buddy? Good.  It's like It's like Siegfried and Roy or Penn and Teller or something like that. That does make shoe the tiger I suppose So Jack will be here shortly He had a little work trouble and was slightly delayed, but he'll he'll be in here before we know it so Lot lot lot to cover tonight. Oh my goodness so much news Why don't we start there Tyler? What do you got for us, buddy? Yeah, absolutely. So you're gonna start with the remergent. I do it is a skeleton thing Then I am going to say is 40k, but anyways, what do you think Brent? What do you think of the skeleton thing? you know, I Mean I agree with you. I agree that it's 40k and that's a Deceptive because like who who owns who owns skeletons? Age of Sigmar and skeletons not 40k. Well, then they started banging them on their shields and just like, you know They're out of control over there. I mean clearly this is fodder to further the divide between Warhammer 40k and Age of Sigmar fans so I'm just gonna go ahead and You know what it's It's night on I don't care. Okay Another special edition night on all right Tyler. What about you? What's your guess for for mr? Yeah, so we got a obviously we got a W on the forehead. Yes, so I'm gonna go with an order of a zeer centerpiece and this is a piece of it love it Okay, I like where your head's at so we're getting the order of a zeer release That's what I'm hearing that the the dawn bringer crusades that they've spoiled out there Which is our new path to glory type system, right? Yeah Which is I'm glad they got to work the word crusade into it so they could just be like hey Hey, hey, it's like that crusade thing out of 40k see but it's it's for this game that thing you all really liked We're gonna go more of that. It's that's it's like this path to glory colon dawn bringer crusades comma Your new favorite way to get players into the game subtitle Get it out and get it the heck out of the middle of my battle tomes, please. Thank you Saying the W means witch, right? Because now I have to imagine, you know the order of azir's interrogating somebody and the only way that they could truly figure out if their witch is they like Remove their hat and there's just a W Engraved in their forehead.  That's a few are clever. Yes. Yes, sure, which you know, which is in the mortal realms naturally are right? So there you go. Hey, there's Jack. There he is. Jack.  My friend. This is the most silhouetted Wow, I haven't walked this character. There we go. There he is scoot a little more in get get get closer We want to see you bring it in bring it in more all the way and there you go There's there's that beautiful face. Look at this Like a Greek god over here this guy coming in joining the chats. We're amazing. Eat your heart out Chuck Moore. That's right No, we're live oh, we're very live Jack This is very much the show that's what people tuned in for but I'm pretty sure everybody like you Jack You're not allowed to show firearms on the stream. So you got Get out of my work. I'm like I saw my work shorts on I just literally got up UBS truck hop on my car You're all right, you're all right, we're glad to have you We were just talking the rumor engine Tyler came out with the very good idea that this is a This is an order of Azier. So we're all going with that Entire order of Azier dropping army dropping confirmed, but let's move on to the real stuff because we got a lot to cover here Yeah, 100% Well, so Vince, I know you wanted to maybe do something a little different this week in terms of all of the AOS 3.0 news. Yes. So we've gotten a ton of little AOS three snippets, right? Little rules and command abilities and things just trickling out There's rumors flying around the interwebs of of you know, various stories of what the rules are going to contain My solution is to talk about more or less none of that this week because it would just like it would become the whole show So we'll talk about it once we have a clearer picture in future weeks With two exceptions. So the first exception I want to do is I do want to give Brent and Jack just a chance to say this Are you Brent? We'll start with you Are you excited by what you've seen so far from all these previews for 3.0? In 3.0? Absolutely What thing that you saw in the preview has you the most excited? The thing that has me the most excited would be the heroic action their finest hour Yeah, man.  Yes, Jack. What about yourself? You excited for 3.0? Yeah, extremely excited. I felt we were kind of in this holding period But I am just I'm rejuvenated. I have had a lot of you know Tournament games recently and it just reminded me why I love playing this game. And so I'm excited for 3.0. I'm trying to Separate in my mind what I've read Sure, so what I can't share right versus what if they How about the new command abilities they did share that out, right?  How you feeling about that stuff?  I will take that. Yeah All right, well interesting stuff all around I am like so I said we're gonna talk about most of that stuff in weeks to come Okay, because just like trying to pick apart little pieces of it without seeing the hole is just gonna be complicated with one exception That's right. It's a news time PowerPoint. Oh Boom PowerPoint coming did you but here it is we're gonna talk about coherency Okay So one of the big things they revealed was obviously the new rules for unico her and see and I don't know that I've seen a more Controversial thing hit the interweb since I Don't know ever really I guess that this is this is it This is the new this is this is the new break the internet moment since Warhammer fantasy blew up There it is. There it is Brent. You got it. Thank you Okay, so basic rules on the unit coherency You have to set up and finish every move as a single coherent group a unit with two to five models Coherent if each model the unit is one inch horizontally and six inch vertically is at least with at least one other model in the unit Bull stop same rule as always nothing has changed so far Okay, they clarified the vertically thing that's been kind of around in various ways But anyways right now we're basically the same rules. Okay. All right, nothing controversial here So two to five models same as always No issues No drama lot. Okay now a Unit with more than five models ie six plus is Coherent if each model in the unit is within one inch horizontally and six inch vertically of at least two other models in the unit If a friendly unit is not coherent at the end of a turn or After you set it up you must remove models in the unit from play one at a time until it is coherent Okay Okay, so this is the biggest change of the new addition. I'm just gonna say that right now Not even knowing every change that's out there irrelevant. This is the biggest change of the new addition Okay, this will take the cake right and Because you know so before we get into the details because I'm gonna we're gonna bust into some stuff here real quick clearly this is trying to address sort of conga lines mm-hmm and And clearly this is Um It's drawing a bit on a 40k thing, but not exactly. There's a slightly different obviously they also have different melee range I've heard some people say yes But what if they get rid of the like normal reach and we have a 40k style? You can fight if you're touching the models or touching a model that's touching the enemy models We didn't we know we didn't because we've already seen the worst roll cards for the next for the launchbox stormcast and But and swampy boys, yeah the swamp bogglers, I don't know I don't I don't think they've said anything about No, they haven't like we could pile and change and I hope we do yeah, yeah, so There we go But obviously this is an attempt to address conga lines. I don't know if it was that big of an issue, you know like Certainly, I've seen some tables where you've got 40 man units that are looking like this Going around the table all over the place and you're like, you know, that does look kind of bad So, okay, I get that But at the same time man does this hit a lot of stuff. So let's what I want to get into here is I want to get into the consequences of this We're not gonna argue the value everybody on the internet has been arguing the is this good Is this bad the normative discussion of oh my god? The world is over or I love it because now conga lines are dead or whatever I don't care about any of that like I do I care deeply but just that's not the discussion I want to have okay instead. We're gonna fly through this and just talk about this is the rule What are the impacts? Right, and then at the end we can all reach our own conclusions. Does that sound fun to everybody? Sounds good. Okay Alright So here we go Let's start with the basics So basic read units can no longer conga line and have to be in rows of like two or three or something like that At least two right so in other words old chaff looked like that, right? So this this line of dots where you've got a guy and then an inch and then a guy and then an inch and then a guy And then an inch and then Right And so new chaff is like nope. You've got to shrink that down and have two rows of guys That's the smooth brain read of this Okay Mm-hmm. All right So real effects again This is the smooth brain basic read okay So previously a unit of 10 models on 25 mil bases could cover 19 inches of horizontal space on the board That's the math.   It's 19 inches, okay? Because you didn't set up your models with a laser protractor Okay, so 10 models across plus nine inches of negative space in between Does that make sense? No, everybody with me so far Okay Now a unit of 10 models on 25 mils can cover nine inches of horizontal space Five by two of a one inch model and four by two of one inch negative space Okay, again, this is the smooth brain read. This is sort of the way they want you to read this Right Okay All right so But But but but okay This is sort of like if you introduced somebody new to the game and They read that rule and you look at how they set up the models in their pictures of their armies This is what they're thinking Okay Like this is how they want your units to look so if you got 30 guys You got two rows of 15 or three rows of 10 or something like that or whatever, you know Some kind of blobby type scenario at worst is what they want Right, right. This is where my brain stops, right? but Of course that isn't actually what this rule does Okay In actuality My header on this slide is just but do they? All right, let's really think about two models within one inch So first of all, we can still have a completely straight single row of dudes if they're 25 mil bases Yeah, okay because even the end guys which are the ones we're really concerned with Are still within an inch of two models because the inch reaches over The base right next to them and touches the third guy in the room Okay, right so but Notably we've shrunk down to covering 10 inches of horizontal space right because we've had to Eliminate all negative space in between like literally you've got to have the bases basically touching you can have point one or something millimeters in between the bases Okay, so The So you're still covering less space, but you can still do a picket line, right as long as it's 25 mil or We can set up for what I think of is like the suicide line Okay Which is this line? I have down here where you can string any number of people in the middle have an inch of negative space in between you can have Let's take 30 guys Right, you can have yeah 28 dudes across an inch in between and then on the corners because the problem is the end two people would only have one inch right and If we just tuck the end in we just give a little triangular tail Okay, then all of a sudden everybody is now within an inch of two people, but but if the unit suffers even one casualty it instantly implodes down to five models Okay, just like that's what happens you kill you lose one guy It cuts to fire One more to wounds. Yeah, exactly. First time I saw this 40k blog. I was like Right, yeah, and 40k people have been in here for a while, right Now the trick is you don't you can the more triangles you add Yeah The more break points in that implosion you create you're creating fire breaks Does that make sense?  It's a fire break on the line That makes sense So with just like if you've got 30 people you can still actually conga way out If you take 25 people because that's still gonna end up being 49 inches on a 25 mil base of Horizontal board space basically the board Because remember the board's only 5 feet wide now It's only 60 inches wide So like your break points will happen and you basically lose like five models Yeah, well, so I was thinking about like blood reverse You got 10 blood rivers that are your screen and you choose to murder You know one or two of them to destroy your line and oh wow Suddenly, I've got a nice little hole that I can send whatever through absolutely You just have some sacrificial blood reach your breavers out that you're just like The whole unit of bloods to make it to open up the end of tour they'd implode but yes Okay, I was gonna say isn't the catch there though that because the blood Reavers are on 32s They can't do this they can still do this any size base can do this I was just giving an example with 25 to keep them Real simple as far as you know how much board space are you taking up? Because 32s think about you still have an engine between they could still spread out They can still you know, I'm still it basically everybody needs to be able to go like this and touch two people Got it right and all the middle guys can do that That's the easiest way to think about if you just think put the both of their arms out Do they touch does each arm touch a dude? You got to touch dudes in 3.0. Okay? Consensually All right, so At any rate so you can still do these mega congas and create little break points, right? Okay, but we're not done yet Okay, so in an in effect this rule first off doesn't actually stop congolines. That's number one It means your congolines get slightly shorter Yeah, and you risk losing a few extra models To battle shock at the end of the round Right because if you've got like five six break points in the line the worst case is Okay, like well three guys died and it's two more guys until a break point. So oh no You know, okay, I lose two more little Yeah, a little game that gets created in terms of yeah, like your risk assessment, right? You know and your opponent's choices like okay I've got D6 damage mortal wound spell. I'm gonna check that into the use unit see if I can pop off a certain number I've got a little bit of shooting and the shooting phase and we pop off a couple more and a little little game like that gets created But just uh sure that's interesting.  I want to be upset and not wait We're gonna get to the upset phase jack. Don't worry. We're gonna get there. Okay. Okay. I don't like these. I don't like this reasonableness I don't like all this reasonable fact laying out. This is nonsense. Let's get to the rage Don't worry. The rage is coming. Okay, so if this the reason I wanted to walk this in order was because seemingly The purpose of this was to stop conga lining and encourage Blobbing or clouding or something or whatever right make it look like the pictures when they set up their own armies They wanted us to play that way too Right the problem is so right away. This does not do that Okay, as we have just mathematically proven like it fails in that mission Like you made me shrink my conga lines slightly. Yeah. Yeah, okay, but I can still go pretty nuts Especially because those conga lines were always just for board coverage and shaft. That's not how I attacked Right when your models attacked you like when you want it when you attack you come together Like your hammer units tended to roll pretty tight So they could like get in there get around things, you know You tended to be like too deep and tight if you could reach over your buddy Right so that you could just kind of be like what you want to do is you want to you want to go for the like the This this is the action. This is the enemy unit.  All right, like you're trying to grab Simba and hold him out over the The everything the light touches. All right Okay so But we're not done yet, but but wait it gets worse. All right What about 32 mil bases? Well, let's talk about 32 mil bases 32 mil bases With 32 mil base models with a one inch reach should be the worst off as the second rank Shouldn't ever be able to fight if you play it the way that they sort of have it set up, right in this kind of two-rank thing Which by the way 32 mil bases with a one inch reach were already some of the worst units in the game, right? Like we all know that blood Could be 20 points cheaper than marauders and I'd still never take them 30 points cheaper than marauders I'd still never take Right. It's a huge boon to more tech guard Right to not be that big to not be to be on 25 instead of 32 It's incredible the value of being on a 25 mil base being on a 32 with a one inch reach is one of the worst Things you can be in this game Marty thralls represent that more than anything throughout the game. Yeah Like a lot of fire slayers fall into this category Nomarty fall into this category Blood reverse and blood warriors fall in this category chaos warriors fall into this category of like high now given some of the Some of the firesayers are like how do you have a two inch reach so yeah, but whatever Okay, however There's even a cheater formation for them. So we can do what we call the EKG for them Right where you're just pushing them into this very careful thing. And as you can see here, there's still one inch Horizonsally between the two models basically instead of being a straight line.  We got a way more 32s wave it out, right? And then you've got an engine between so guy on the end here is obviously touching this dude And he's an inch away from this dude. Everything satisfied all cool Even if you lose models, there's no break point right where suddenly the unit implodes It greatly it reduces your frontage and basically locks the unit in place You have to stay like exactly in this formation. You cannot pile in Okay, right? So take that Nurgle your special ability means nothing to me. I already couldn't pile in And if you want to retain your attacks, right? And even if pile in does become simpler in the next edition and I do believe they're gonna mess with pile in These kind of strange formations will still be very inflexible So 32 mil one-inch reach models actually aren't the worst off. It's bad But there's a worse Well, we're quickly get your magnet rays folks. Yeah, I guess we're saw the future. He's already got the trays ready to rock and roll He does. Yeah, was it mini mag trays or whatever they already have my trays. Yeah, they already have this exact 32 mil breakdown Yes, yeah, you're buying brand. All right. Who really loses? Who's our worst off models on 40 to 50 mil with one inch reach that want to run in groups of larger than five This is your older Glutton's your Crip Flayer Haunter's Vargas your rat ogres your bull gore Okay, all these folks These are big 40 50 mil bases That have a one inch reach. Yes. There he is.  Okay Cavalry base units that want to run in tens which is actually pretty rare Like there's not a lot of Calvary that wants to cavalry that wants to run in tens Dire wolves being an immediate thing that jumps out because they just set the model minimum Like take that okay Savage war boys spider writers Those are some of the ones like I literally wrote the word hop because like come on nobody's using this But anyways, but you would want to use them in higher than fives Um You know most cavalry that you're running is like heavy cab that you think you're gonna tend to run in fives Right or like have that you run in fives pistol ears Outriders chaos nights that kind of stuff right the traditional calf blood nights Like honestly running those in tens was always a losing proposition anyway You most of time weren't fighting with half that unit anyways, right? Some folks were trying to make ten Don writers work or multiple units of ten. I was never quite sold personally, but so now probably definitely not Yep Ten Cavalos death writers.  It's great. They're great Like Cavalos death writers fantastic in fives ten was always too many anyways, right?  I love you, sir What are you talking about ten man units of nights? I play S2D all the time. You don't run tenors at nights. That's crazy crazy Okay, and then what about elite calf that wants to run in three six nine or this kind of elite stuff So this should be your gore grunt is your skull crushers your bear and guard Okay, now a lot of people have bemoaned the fact that like six gore grunt is is out six skull crushes Six bear and guard that suddenly these are off the table. I disagree completely Okay, I'm just gonna I'm gonna level that I think out of all of this they're actually the the the most okay All right Um, and it's because of their their ovular base All right, because the ovular base lets them kind of like cheat But why why why say when I can tell so how do we use six large calf base as a gore grunt a man myself, right? So our standard formation we're gonna set up in looks like this It's gonna be our our classic like dual triangle puppy paw prints Right. Yep, and then when we charge we charge in in this little formation I've got right here. So it's kind of three Like three pointing in three pointing in That's still coherent as long as you keep an engine between here You can do that with still a lot with this still being less than an inch. That's the that's how the math works out of me Okay And so and here's the fun trick if you lose a model technically you would be out of coherency but Suddenly you're in you only have five models left And then you're fine because now you use the old coherency rules So anything that's like in sixes. I'm pretty willing to still run because oftentimes you you lose one model anyways Right on the way into the fight with a lot of six person units It's like, I mean, there's a lot of shooting. There's a lot of magic in the game You know, you might lose a pig. You might lose a baron guard. You might lose a something like that or a skull crusher, right? But I don't care if I lose one then great. I'm just flat out. I can run face first into you and and ignore all this to begin Right, and it's fine If I'm in six, I can I can manipulate the charge in this little wacky formation Right You're killing me here, bud. We talked about this That was based upon the That's the second word of the rule said must essentially stay. No, no, I'm saying you must I I'm still in coherency when I charge That's a coherent charge This is a code to have How can you have a strung out? One row these two Okay, like everybody's within an edge of two others this negative space here. I should have put the edge down here Let me let me help you out. Tyler. I'll help you. Okay. Okay. I see where you're you're you're Oh, wait, wait, wait. I'm looking at an old problem is I'm not looking at the stream I'm looking at an old document. You probably update. Oh, yes. I updated it. Yes, correct Okay, run a bunch. I'm looking at the original document. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Like I'm saying this space here Is an edge? Yes, you're looking at an old document. That's an edge. I understand. I like just it is you can do this You can set it up. I measured it out. It works. All right, right on Okay, yeah, I'll pull up the stream here And so, you know here again, you're stuck in this wacky formation as long as you got six guys Right, but if you lose one on the swing back, you're free and clear Okay, perfect. Yeah, I see it now. Awesome Yeah, like These facing doesn't really matter. So these bad guys don't need to be facing forward. They can be facing sideways. It's totally Yeah, yeah, they could be yeah Like what you're saying jack just to make sure everybody understands is you know We could turn this guy around, right and he could be just tokyo drifting up their sideways if you want, right? Yeah Yeah, sure But but either way it works, right? Yeah Yeah With six you can still get away with it Right, so like gorgon to skull crushes verand guards and six they still work It's a little weird for maybe you're maybe you're one pile in If you got there and didn't lose a guy Right.  This would be an easy fix We know these guys are the big losers Right bulgur's right ogre's crypt honors of our guys ogre gluttons blah blah blah blah Easy fix give them a two inch reach that they can reach over their friends Fight in two ranks. They're big giant. Look at how Yeah, look at all those arms are right. That's a two inch reach. He's he's grabbing for you, right? Uh, man dollies there is not rules for supporting attacks because we've already seen the Enches and stuff like that that is still being used on the new War scroll cards So not going to use like they're not going to keep the range of what you can attack and then say and also Here's this other weird supporting attacks feature. It's it's just not there That's what I was hoping for right like I think if they went this direction They should have just went that version, but I don't think they wanted to rewrite every war scroll in the game Like that's literally the decision that was made here. They were like, well, we're not going to rewrite 3 000 war scrolls or whatever it is right I may go with that saying I mean one little downside of the formation with say six pigs is if it requires a decent size frontage So, you know, get them all in so yeah, if you're going up against like 100 millimeter round or whatever You know, you may not get that in terms like skull crushers coming in with their d3 mortal impact heads I'm not going to get all those in there, but yeah in general. That's too bad Yeah So again, like I don't want I'm not saying by the way somebody said don't god, please don't change the My ogre's base sizes. No, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't say change the base size change their reach Their reach give them all two inch reach That's all you gotta do then they can just reach over their friends and And there we go It's fine Like bulgur's with that giant axe should have a two inch reach all these big guys should have a two inch reach They're big their arms are long What are we doing here? Hot take everybody on a 32 mil should have a two inch reach Uh, there we go Conclusion smaller units will be more common units that are already suffering are at least as bad Cav units basically stop at five now unless they're weird shooting cav Who never want to be in melee and could just happily be in like the two ranks and you know go blast in or whatever Uh winners Sons of badmout ignore all these rules.   Yoink yoink i'ma grab them two breakpoints, baby Pull the pan out of the grenades Yeah, it was painful in current edition much less this new stuff. Yeah Yeah, that's gonna be nuts So I threw every one of jack's uh liberators with grand hammers This one and this one and this one. Yeah, exactly So now that we have gone through the coherency shuffle I'm sorry that took so long everybody and I know that was just me talking and I just kind of like ran and didn't let our esteemed guests talk But I really wanted to make sure we got through all of that because I've seen a lot of like Bad takes and people not thinking it through and screwing up how the geometry and the math works And I wanted this on record to like lay down. No, this is the consequences.  I can't wait. So now Now that we have covered all that gentlemen your reaction now, let's get the takes Okay Jack start with you Are you do you hate this rule? No, but I also Like I know more stuff. And so initially I was like, huh? Well, it seems like you were tightening everything up and uh, but Yeah, I was never a um I'm very accepting what rules are like I I don't wish for what I wish it could be I just accept it for what it is And so it's just a new rule I have to get used to and I'll it'll take a little bit And then once I get it down I'll have it and then like sometimes like, okay I'm in coherency and eventually I'll get to the point where I can just eyeball it and I know I'm on coherency And you can if you're cool with your opponent like hey, uh, my my intent is to have myself in coherency So if something out, you know, we're not going to play gotcha. We're going to try to play Intent and I'm sure if you turn turns early talk to your opponent with like that It'll just be something we'll get used to totally agree. That's always the right attitude Like if I see somebody playing a game and like oops, we actually slid one model out Like I'm not going to be like, oh, if you go to kill that guy It should be like, nah, man. Just scoot that dude back or whatever like come on What do we do in here with our lives? Right? Uh, Brent your take So this rule, um I Thought and you've you've convinced me otherwise that I was like, I just assumed that there had to be More in the book that we didn't know because it's like, you know, for what you were describing it's like, oh, well This is a like and I thought about this rule before too. It's like this is a way that you could You know a rule like this you could get rid of Kong the lining and I'm definitely one of those players who I'm like narrative I don't want to see just like a line of Dudes across board.  No, no, I don't care blobs dudes. That's what I wanted Or is like a way to get rid of holy within because to me my understanding of like holy within existed So you didn't conga line and get a buff. It's like So a rule like this to me seemed like a path toward a lot of other types of rules Uh, or even, you know a way Like a path toward getting you're getting rid of attack range like I kind of think I mean james huitt was on We're having the clue like he you know, he worked on early age of sigmar and he had said like You know the the rules were made with the core box in mind and that's like well attack range Wasn't really an issue if you're just playing with the core box, right? But then you scale that to larger units and it becomes pretty hard to figure out. Okay, you're you're within an inch You're within an inch and you're behind this guy's within That doesn't scale very well. So to me. I was excited about the idea of changing unit coherency for kind of like all these reasons and now it's Like every day that there hasn't been another article that's like and here's the reason that there's changes to go here and see I'm like, where is it? Where is it? So just as it is now, I don't know that it That it adds anything so I am still Undecided but without anything else, uh, I think this is a this is a no for me pro Yeah, tyler Yeah, it's Definitely need to yeah to actually get a feel for it in games. I mean never really informed opinion Yeah, I've seen a lot of the conversations online in the last couple days or have a lot of that We've done about this and I think there's been some reasonable points and concerns made Uh at the same time, I mean generally a huge fan of MSU as you know this And I've been clamoring on about that from the beginning that uh, yeah I think that generally is is pretty healthy for the game Maybe we're going to see more MSU screening like that might be one consequence of this Um, and with some of these other things that we've seen It generally strikes. I'm a little concerned about maybe the awkwardness Of like your example of the 32s And two by five. Yeah, yeah maintaining that little platformation like but I don't know how pylon works so That may be reduced, you know, once uh, yeah exactly once I learn about how how pylon that actually is going to work If there's any changes in this edition So a little concerned about yeah, is how awkward is this going to be etc? But Yeah, I've kind of ultimately I guess in jack's camp that you know, just adapt and move forward Yeah, this need to be done. I'm not entirely clear that it needed to be done But I suspect it's probably going to be in that positive. Yeah Vince, I do agree sweeping attack range increases. I feel like makes Would make me into this rule, but Fingers crossed about that Yeah, I mean my and Jordan I would love it if it's if that happened But it's it's not gonna happen man because we again, we already saw the new war school cards that just have the same old ranges on them Not like 40k data sheets don't have an attack range because they don't need it right so like Um, again, that would require them to go in and change every war school card. So they're just not going to do that. Um It's so like here's my here's my ultimate take on it It is a classic solution looking for a problem It probably doesn't need to be here Okay, it's not probably Uh adding anything to the game Uh, and they did it wrong in the way they limited it Uh, the the capping at two to five feels like they went on autopilot Not remembering just how many units are in three sixes or two four sixes in this game right and They uh And and the issue there is they um They Should have either if they were going to put in this rule. It should have either said two to six Or It should have said, uh 11 plus Hmm Okay So that way your units of 10 you could still be just units of 10 and you weren't monitoring this stuff for that So that way your units of three to six and so on That's going to be there. Uh So at any rate That's where they went wrong I hear is what I would say you're like the most minimal touch they could be if they really want to ride this, uh If they really want to ride this train Is right as soon as the game comes out and you give out the first FAQ change from two to five to two to six You'll make a ton of units more interesting Like just like that. Yeah, if you're not willing to change the reach of the inches Right on all if you're not willing to edit all the war scrolls that need changed up to two inch range Right. Yeah Then just make it two to six and suddenly you bring so many units back into play Okay, that's such a minimal change. I they went five because humans like that number I think 40k might actually interesting and left these two to six But yeah, I put together a list that events I sent to you earlier Looking at the ovals. Yeah, men in size two to three and in the rounds Just try to get a sense of like the state of the game in terms of how many Units were running in sixes or more that were like really impactful in the game Like the men size two to three on ovals, immigrants, dracotian guard, dragon ogre, zivicators on Dracoline, sphene, score runners, echelon guard, morsar guard, mournfang pally, skull crusher, blood crusher and baron guard So like baron guard, morsar guard Probably six piggies is pretty pretty strong Six kitty cats pretty pretty good kitty caters But I mean, I don't know that that generally seems fine to have that in the game I don't think we're breaking the game by having six of those running around Yeah, it feels like it feels like a perfectly reasonable unit right like yeah six pigs six kitty caters whatever whatever right like yeah You know and then yeah, it's much longer list in terms of the rounds But but again, I couldn't really find anything that really stood out As having been problematic. I mean, we all know like morsar guard had been good for a long time But that's like there's other things there like points but yeah Yep, okay Uh, all right, so there we've cut we beat this subject into the literal ground much like our worst off Here on the screen But I hope we've come there well Okay Did we have anything else news wise? I think we got to the end right? Yeah, the events.  That'll be a good chance for for you to talk Tyler. Go ahead Uh, yeah, so we had buggy dear last weekend And I'm trying to recall who we had. I think joe crier He finished the top three with luminous helan Of course he did. Of course he did That guy Yeah, joe always. Yeah, joe's got a little tape that pulled with the list that he likes to run.  Sure Yeah, 20 sentinels you get within nine inches of them and if your charge moves here you go 40 or whatever shots lovely Yeah, I think it was Yeah Do we miss like pick of the week at all that stuff? No, no, no. Yeah, this is just This is tyler's new segment of the news the events section I appreciate it and yeah, we had a ko that was in first and there was a Stormcast top five.  I think he made it finish four. It went four and one Uh, joe we're getting his last name. Yeah, it's fantastic. Jack.  Anyway, so that's really cool And then yeah, we just add love star opens that's happening in ala, texas another frontline gaming events Near the end of july. So I think that was the main one that we got added to the list that we had missed last time So, yeah, as always it was events.org Check it out. There we go. And if there's a couple more. Oh, there's a sold out renegade event in minneapolis july 17 through 18 Very nice. Very nice. Awesome. We'll get that added Crazy or says why are we not talking about the new terrain shown today? Because I want them to show all the rest of the terrain crazy or is because there's obviously another piece That they keep showing in like the battle scenes, but they didn't put in the article today. It's like that little I don't know. Like it's kind of phallic. It has like the ko globe on top with the pillars. It's been in like four different Uh, you know like combined Shots that they did of stuff and you know in the in there where the troops set up And yet they didn't actually show it as like here's one of the terrain pieces. So I want to see all of them Like I wanted to show you couldn't show it today because it's already constructed All the terrain today is In process. Yeah. Yeah.  It's really Good good. Oh, I was gonna say I really like the terrain because like most of the train we've gotten from gw It's like it's already dilapidated ruins and everything and just see something brand new statues that are polished gold and it's like Oh, this is what the age of chaos like before the age of chaos This is what things look like then it kind of got destroyed and that's what I really do It shows like progress, you know, right cities of sigmar were building and expanding and uh, you know order is actually winning and that's my favorite faction. So I'm at 100% I want order to win and build cities because that's where my scaven can go and fest underneath Right. So like it's important. You've got to build your cities first so we can get underneath them. It's a two-step process All right, just uh, ko taking out a buggy. I think that was bill sweden incidentally. I didn't say his name. So Good on you bill very nice All right. Well gentlemen, let's move to some pick of the week. Uh, all right You know what? We didn't do too bad. That was a long new section, but it wasn't our worst. All right pick of the week Brent, what would you like to share with everybody? I'm still Fuzzy about what the rules for pick of the week actually is any video website blog Post right. I'm saying I still just go by it. It's it's older than a week But that's my first time seeing it. This is uh, ninjong, you know, who is uh on your grave lord show paint your new box game in four easy steps and uh, he goes through a process that seems to be picking up more and more popularity about use oil paints to paint lots of models quickly And uh, I'm always interested in information like that and I bought all the stuff based on watching the video So I'm excited to try it out and maybe somebody else will see that video and feel the same because there's lots of box sets that have come out and Are about to come out that maybe this would be helpful for I love it And I highly recommend everybody to pay close attention to ninjong's channel over the next couple days for other reasons Jack what about you? All right, so I have a pick of the week in a shout out first pick of the week with Marlo Landau and the front line gaming guys were at Atlantic city open It's happening this week in and I will actually be there and I know Marlo Landau is running the aos Which I will take place. I'm gonna bring lumeneth, which I just won a local tournament with so I'm You know, I'm getting the just competitive juices falling again. It's nice. Nice. How many send those? How many send those? You got jack? Uh 40 Yeah Good man Okay I want to Shout out aos coach. You just had 10,000 subscribers. He just did a trivia event that I got second place on because it's It's not just looks I'm also pretty smart And uh, yeah, so shout out to aos coach 10,000 subscribers. That's really cool And uh, yeah, you can send me my prize that I want anytime now. So nice Uh, move to have jack's new name be jack the total package ballard. So that's That's I'm gonna go ahead and put that out there back humble No, no, no You don't need that Tyler, what would you like to share with everybody? All right, uh falling suit one shout out to picks if you haven't had enough of our currency chatter Centerfall gaming and face. I'm a russ got you covered so centerfall. Yeah, they did a little video All about currency and russ has been doing. Yeah new little new segment on the face of my youtube channel Which has been great discovering all the latest articles Putting out a video every other, you know every day every other day So he did one on the career and seek man abilities and and so on in 3.0 And then shout out to polkas throw anthony polkas throw legend the community Providing us with that sweet sweet printable, you know, 3d terrain for all of our events I got three big boxes from polkas throw last thursday With incredible trade for this project that we'll be announcing on the show at some point in the future Very nice. I'm excited. Yeah, I love it. I'm I I want to see you paint it That's something I do Thank you. Tyler for Making it okay because you're the first like Uh, I'm a big fan of yours, you know, I when I got into the hobby I would watch you come on for hammer weekly a lot and i'm thankful that you're the co-host now But you made it make me feel okay to get my army commissioned and it's So much time Nothing wrong with it at all. Oh, yeah And you started off with the most gorgeous sellison prime in the world by By uh, who painted that again that was uh oscar larvas oscar ride, but yeah, it's amazing. Yeah Yeah, so yeah, it's like I rock up with this beautiful painted army and I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't submit it for best painting or anything But it's it's yeah So you are humble Yeah, there you go. Like I said total package. All right, so, uh My shout out is going to be for one of my favorite videos I've seen in a long long time our good buddy two plus tough Give it a shout out right now if you love the two plus tough dug Uh, and he posted the negadug video where he went Uh into the internet trolliest reactions on aos 3.0 and I absolutely loved it It was fantastic So I will link it below it made me laugh and smile And what's so funny is he was trying to be negative Doug right so like actually be negative and yet it was still like the most positive negative video I've ever seen I know, yeah He can't help himself from being a friendly respectful Funny gentleman. It's just in his DNA sweetness coming through. Yeah He just doesn't have the he just doesn't have that that like That mean gene in him. It's not there And that's all right. That video was fantastic and it made me smile for hours afterward. I loved it You guys must have some good blackmail stories though That might come out at some point on that man He's got to have some There's we like being you have to share Not to blow up his spot, but it's like we all have our public faces like you know, I There's stuff I don't share I swear a lot more in real life, but and so you get to know the person Behind the you know, they're persona. I guess we kind of put Yeah, it's a great guy and he's just you know, he's as cool in real life as he is and on This treatment stuff So if he does what if you know stuff starts opening up again and he starts to travel and go to events He's just a sweetheart. So I recommend everybody go subscribe to 2 plus stuff if you're not there you go Yeah, I told him that now he's in the midwest I expect him to be at every midwest event. Otherwise, I'm gonna come get him and drive him to the event myself Like he has no choice in this matter. He will be there. I'm watching Look at you Doug. I know you're watching He doesn't live in the island of Seattle anymore. Correct Yeah, well, and I hope he'll play more competitive games So he can update his references because lesion and a gash isn't that scary anymore Oh, that's good. All right, let's turn to some uh, some hobby time, uh, Brent What have you been working on buddy? You getting anything painted? I just finished the charnel throne Nice, which means I now can't keep avoiding the crypt flares Those are almost done, but I had kind of this like I got in this rhythm with like, okay I figured out how to paint the ghouls. That's easy. You figured out how to paint the crypt horrors That's easy figured out how to paint the crypt flares except for the wings And then I kept doing these like experiments to try and get the wings right and I was like, these are These are gonna turn out bad.  What am I gonna do? That with an airbrush Since I've watched all your videos. I still have a very tenuous relationship with my airbrush Um, but I used inks and I kind of like toasted the the edges of the wings just added a nice little gradient. So uh, yeah, I'm gonna go Back to them, but I've been chipping away at them Nice and uh now don't have excuse because the charnel throne is done Fantastic. I just as I mentioned last week. I just finished up my uh Whole fec army did the whole painting in a weekend and that that video will be coming out in just a little while So I love it more fec. Yes, that's great. That's great. Your video will make me cry, but I didn't have any terror guys or anything because that doesn't make it easier. So there you go You're getting close on 2000 What's that? Oh, yeah Can you get a good one k on the board? Um, not not not yet. All right. That's all right. Yeah, you know what you've got a brit can see Well, let me just say this. You know what you've got brit You've got a dawn bringer crusade army ready to go. There we go. See see you're all set brother. You're good I'm sorry jack go ahead Okay, so brit can actually field a 2000 point army And it but it just has to be legion uh grand alliance death because he's painted a lot of Worst army imaginable but painted There you go. That's just which is something that's what matters. That matters a lot Uh jack, what about you buddy? What you've been working on? Uh, so prepping for uh Atlantic city open But you know, that's mainly telling my commission guy what I need But for me as as far as uh, I just built sif I'm in the middle of building six of the griff chargers a little Thing here. I've got a good deal on those and this is the latest model. I painted it is a sister slaughter In my seahawks color scheme just because I love uh, I think it works great for order And I like playing grand alliance order and just that uniform look. Uh, yeah, and um, yeah So that's what I've been working on right now Awesome, uh Little I saw a question pop up Uh, michael davis said hopefully mr. Pocastro is in the chat. He is he's around very interested in getting some terrain from him How might one find his story info I'll let him post it. Yes. He has an etsy store So you can this guy we we talk about all the time. He does have an etsy store where he sells his terrain So so there you go. Hopefully he posted. I don't know if it'll let him post the link But if not anthony, just send me the link Directly and I'll post it in the show notes.  We painted it up and it's gonna be on the channel soon anthony Amazing, we ever forgot but it's all painted up. He's an amazing dude. Uh, I think he's going to atlantic city open So I I believe yes on me, sir If you do drink if you don't if you don't drink I'll drink it for you I will buy you a drink and then drink it for you. Good offer. It's a solid offer Uh, tyler since you're not painting, but have you got any you got any games in? You always have to qualify that everybody knows by now, you know I'm setting the expectation accordingly Fair enough. Yeah Yeah, we had our halfway point little one dayer So a thousand points four games on saturday 14 players, which was amazing Uh, let's see. We had fours each just something two luminaf ko Stormcast night on pretty good mix it's rocking the iron jaws And let's see it was uh friend kody got best painted with this amazing zinch We had first place again carriage on overlords. Apparently they're pretty good right now Yeah with christian I've got second Squeaked it out with ij and then third luminaf So yeah, that's some points a lot of fun shipping objectives border war star strike And blood and glory classic There was the smallest good good. I was just gonna ask what is the smallest model count army in this tournament? Smallest oh, I had to be in the running, but that's a good question. Let's see the list is here legions of the first prince maybe ij maybe What's an army I could conceivably have painted Right, I mean ij a thousand points is like probably 12 models 15 models tops. I mean, it's pretty small My 2k army was 26 models every time Yeah, how many how many pigs did you have 12 nine 12? Okay, right? Yeah, I think I probably have the smallest with 20 boys six piggies and two heroes. So 28 Yeah, there you go.  That's where I live Yeah For myself, uh, it's been a very very busy Hobby week. I haven't gotten to paint as much as I want to but I'm working on this little home got boy here I don't know if he's gonna show up at all, but he is uh, he's this little guy from the Cursed city box and our little ko friend and I'm actually painting him up for uh, golden demon as a matter of fact Because I think he is a good model for that and so, uh, yeah, that's what I'm working on and I actually didn't He's not zenith old because he's mostly metals. So I wanted to keep it mostly in black so that everything really shines Uh, and then I just I'm just picking out the colors.  I'm less than than some ko but more than most models Oh, but he's been a lot of fun That's exciting. Yeah, he's like the second dwarf. I've ever painted That's true. I have painted one other go track for for daren watson for the go track challenge Yeah, that was recent. Wow. Yeah, that is I yeah, is this in your whole Yes, in 23 years of painting. This is the second dwarf. I have painted. Yes, that's correct I have never I don't like dwarfs Is it because Tom likes dwarfs? No, I just literally don't like Dwarfs ever like that as a as a fantasy race I've played I mean, I've played dnd since 1989 I've played One dwarf in that entire 32 years of playing dnd, right? I just hated it And I and it was not a long game and I did not enjoy it. Yes, that is correct. Um, like I just Across the board I don't like I don't like fantasy dwarfs. Yes. Okay. So in your the hierarchy hierarchy of that That's that s I don't like is it nergal or dwarfs. What's his higher nergal? Nergal's higher. Okay. Yeah Dwarfs, I just don't love a lot of nergal models like I have tryptophobia So a lot of nergal models actually legitimately set me up Um, like, you know, you know, if you have that if you're somebody who has that you know how bad it is Like it you get nauseous like you start you feel like you're gonna vomit. It's really bad You would just talk about it right now and picturing it The only exception to the nergal thing is death guard models because they keep all their grossness locked inside Uh, space marine armor So So you can't see it. It's all it's all tucked up in there And you're really just painting space marines that happen to have like an intestine hanging out or something That's all Okay So awesome gentleman Are we ready To talk cragnos the thunder. Yes, we are Uh, literally from down under he he truly was because he was under the the the mountain So yes, he is the thunder from down under. Wow. I thought I was just going off on a limb there, but nope That worked out All right Cragnos, let's get into it gentlemen. Powerpoint number two. Baboom You knew it was happening. You knew we would it was going it was going to happen. So there we are Unsustainable trajectory you're on with your power points The amount of time it takes to make these is ridiculously long by the way it's like it is Since I started this it's become a far more involved process. But anyways, it's worth it All right before we get into the details, let's do a quick round about the table here On high level if you like the book, do you like what it adds that kind of thing brent What did you think about what do you think about cragnos overall? Obviously no spoilers yet We're not going to talk spoilers in the narrative. We will talk about the story at the very very very end Do not worry. Okay. So anyways, go ahead rent. We'll know spoilers in the narrative, but um What I think is like the The most important thing for me in books like this is like does it provide narrative inspiration? Like yeah, they're telling their own story, but what does that do for your games? This book does a great job of that. I'm very narratively inspired by this book and then as far as rules, um, you know Just like any kind of some of the other broken realm or the other broken realms books Just the sort of like end of edition Update to some more scrolls is nice. Um, and this book is particularly exciting because there's some key ones in there like allarial and Since this book actually got, you know, like a wealth of new models Yeah, it's a little more through the rule section. Of course, girls are a little more exciting than Some of the previous ones. Yeah. Yeah. So pretty cool. Jack Take Well, I You know as well as being the total package. I'm also captain positivity and I love the book one One of my thing that people some people don't like it. I just happen. I like That they're We're not reheating Lord of the Rings all the time Sure It seems like leaders constantly and so when they're adding a new god or anything like that because Techless used to be a character. I played in high elves now. He's a god And so we're introducing these new these new gods that maybe my kids will Just recognize only as gods when they're younger, right? Sure. The hobby is growing And so if they're they're introducing this guy and uh, I'm just like, okay, who is he? I want to know about him. I'm very curious and uh, I definitely I was satisfied with the book. I'm happy with it There I you know, there's as far as competitive stuff and like rule changes. It's always weird when because you We know 3.0 is right over there, right? All right, but like how am I get how much am I going to invest into this? Because I can tell you I was looking at the war scroll battalions and all the rumors I'm hearing and I'm like, well next You know I But uh, so I was excited by the book right on Tyler Yeah, solid 7 out of 10, I'd say okay. Yeah, I enjoyed the story The nice mix of characters war scrolls. They touched at least lightly touched a fair number of armies Which is cool to see. I mean someone at this doing a lot of lifting on that seven. I would say that they're in there That gorgeous war song revenue, uh, I think yeah, they that's a that's a pretty pretty awesome war scroll What what he does to the army, but yeah, no, it's uh, it's a good book Okay, uh Bring it bring us down. We're going No, well, obviously the books are one out of 10 because I don't like the slinnish stuff that's in there very much So, uh, so unfortunately So next I honestly really liked this book. I thought the story was actually, uh, pretty good. Um, I enjoyed the sort of, um Like Uh, I don't want to say it like Stalingrad 1943 or whatever kind of thing or 44 Whatever year was I'm not I'm not a world war two guy But you know that kind of like it felt like this really gritty street fight thing going on through a lot of it, right And so I thought the story was really strong. Um, I did like all the uptarmies that got touched. Uh, sorry Uh I think and Moralino, I think you're somehow like back in the stream. So he's not gonna see this He's not gonna because he's not watching us right now, but well, he'll see he'll learn He'll see when I get to the rest of my slides because he's watching the coherency stuff. I think Um, but anyways, uh, but no, we know don't worry. We'll get there. Anyways, um I, uh, I liked the I liked all the updates to everybody. Um, I thought there was a lot of really interesting things they did here with some of the scrolls And I'm really excited about some of the new rules. They added a sort of patching to stuff and sorry corn You get nothing. So I assume that means a battle tone is on the way Wasn't the only one that they officially missed. Yes throughout all of this Yes, I mean other like of the of the quote unquote. Well, I mean like sons didn't get anything But like I'm not counting it since their book came out basically right before this Right, and obviously like soul-like grave lords didn't have anything in there. But again I'm they got a book in the middle of this, right? So of army books of the armies that didn't have army books released basically during broken realms Right, right Uh, it was interesting. Um Iron jaws and bone splitters too, but we have to assume they're uh an early 3.0 book Yeah, because the war crimes. Yeah, there you go. They get cragnos. So yeah, that's I'm counting cragnos Like effectively kind of everybody got touched by the presence of cragnos and destruction So I'm like I'm giving them that but I'll agree with you that's tenuous because like maw tribes I'm I'm wrapping up in there like literally the only army where No, you your options changed zero percent was corn. How about Right Like again, you're right ogres and and you know iron jaws bone splitters like the war clans didn't get anything But again, those all got touched by the addition of cragnos Like and you can argue we can talk about how good or bad that is blah, blah, blah, whatever Is that what you wanted? No, but like He's kind of the gimme that was just like, hey You know all destruction got it. They're all touched got a ball Right, right. It was like enjoy your plus one bravery. Yeah. So, you know, like whatever I know others have noted this about the way that they've written the articles They're referencing orc war clans a lot when talking about cruel boys. Yeah. Yeah And that may maybe we're gonna get just a new orc war clans book that cruel boys will be I shifted originally I thought we were gonna get that it was just gonna be they were gonna have like the orc war clans Keyword or whatever so you could just lump them into big wall or whatever But no, now I just think we're getting orc war clans will be one of the early books And it'll just be now we'll be in three parts.  They all got touched there you go. We're fine. Okay. So it's a clean first shop fulfilled their promise. That's right Clean sweep So my summary is basically on screen right now. I think it's a solid book that gives love to many armies That was overshadowed by being published so close to 3.0 as you said jack. So yeah, there you go And this is just a brief list of kind of everything that's in the book There is quite a lot as a note here I am going to spend officially zero percent of the time on the battalions Giving all of the rumors that uh, these kinds of war scroll battalions are going to move to narrative only That doesn't mean they have zero value It just means that they won't show up in most matched play games anymore And so I'm not going to talk about them in terms of a sort of matched play type review of the book um, so hence, sorry battalions You burnt you're out. Okay, so Let's start with the big boy himself. Shall we? Cragnos our newest god in the pantheon as I said the thunder from down under the lord of earthquakes Uh Yeah, Cragnos new god that can fit in any destruction army. So here's here's my summary of him and I'll be interested to to uh To see what y'all think he is a beastly melee monster hero He is what sons of behemoth should have felt like Okay, like in his offensive profile He is a powerful piece in 3.0 being like a both a big monster and a big hero, right? So we know he can do Uh, both the heroic actions and the monster stuff He can utterly destroy enemy monsters when he charges them doing an average of 20 mortal wounds or nothing There is a high percentage chance that he rolls the seven and hence does nothing Um, he is however extremely susceptible to being chaffed He has only medium speed at basically being between 10 and 7 inches with no flight Uh, he is a fully modular piece, right? He basically stands alone. He gets almost no synergy from anything He is his own thing for the most part And he has 760 points okay Jack what'd you take on craggy here? Uh, I think I saw a lot of people say well, he doesn't have uh, we'll say word save now Yeah, sure. You just have a word save. Yep. I literally think I used a word save in this document. Yes Uh, but I think people gloss over his like almost Dang near not a magic community, but he has really good magic protection Yeah, and a lot of mortal wounds do come from magic I think uh, I think he'll beat up most things he gets in combat with you know Go check a site, uh, and you know The initial like outrage at his points because you had everybody saying well, he should be pointing at this without Realizing he's got to be for 3.0. Um, yeah, I think do I see of my tournament? It's probably not but I think it'll be a fun piece to play uh, when you're You know playing against friends or a casual games to just run them in and smashing things You know, I have I have a war plans army. I'm looking to pick this guy up to Throw him in there and run alongside gore track Yeah, you can build a couple fun I I made a couple fun iron jaws list that I'm excited to try out Uh, my my crag nose should be here. I think tomorrow, so I'm excited about that Uh, and give it give us one. Yeah, give us a list. What do you got?  That's it Right. I I like literally I am the end of your army if you let me get into you Uh, so yeah Yeah, that's cool brent. What about you?  What are you going to roll? And you know, I think people will still go, uh, you know If it's like not that many mortal wounds or your opponents can be like, yeah, like excited that they didn't just get bulldozed So just added something like that and again if right You you want that right? I just say I love interactions like that Love interactions where it's like all or nothing when you roll a dice and you'd explode with your opponent Especially if you're friends and then you can talk trash like In the or if you did nothing The things you remember you would like oh remember that time I did nothing to crag nose and like these are stories you tell each other like And you go down the road like oh, I like I'll talk about it When croak comes up because croak is also similar to this where you can roll dice and nothing happens or roll Dice and good stuff happens. Yeah, sure. And I just like now I have this bond with my opponent where That and I love those interactions Yeah, I mean An element here is I think jack you're right I don't know how often this guy's going to make it into competitive lists But I don't know what the competitive landscape looks like post 3.0 Because my strong feeling is we're going to see points increases across the board like right now He's significantly more expensive than the mega boss on maw crusher But I would not be surprised if the mega boss on maw crusher didn't rock it up like 150 points In the next edition or something big like that. I think you're going to see like across the board 10 20 point increases. I don't know this for sure. I haven't seen anything This is just my like sneaking suspicion based on What I've seen in the books and the most recent books that have come out and the way that they're pointed Like I just think things are going to jump up Okay, maybe it's not that much. Maybe the mega boss on maw crusher only goes up 50 60 points I don't know. I don't know but I think things like hero monsters Are going to eat Uh a significant points increase in the next edition to compensate for their new abilities They just gained for free right to compensate for the fact that they are such like power pieces I think I think you'll see not everything like if you were to average it will be like 10 to 20 But my guess is some stuff will kind of stay the same Some stuff will have bigger jumps and that's where the average will kind of lie So it's hard for me to predict I think in the end he's probably going to be too expensive to show up in a lot of competitive lists But I think he's super cool and I'll play the heck out of him because I think he's super fun Like he is exactly what I want because Brent, you and I are some potico on this, right? Like I want to charge with this guy and have my phone ready where I can just like once he hits And I roll the dice I can just be like hit the play button and have it go here comes the boom Here comes the boom, you know I want that song to just like you know pop, right So You got to point out though the lulls though on destroyer of the draconith empire Very corner case I think it's like they're going for narrative here like you could reroll charges and hits against star drakes and Drakos is like if they're going for narrative, there's stuff in there that he should have more than dragons and then the Again icon of destruction. Yeah, plus one bravery Holy within 12 for friendly destruction. So there's just stuff like this. It's just like Uh, and this is definitely the stuff like when we're playing games that we always forget and sure when I saw that it's just like I'm I'm going to intentionally forget that. I don't even care. No, I don't even Icon of destruction. We're going to rewrite it right now to be sensible ready all other destruction models in your army Get plus two bravery. Okay. There you go. Great. I can just set it in my mind And there we go. Did it knee it like yes, I agree with you completely Brett when they write rules like this on a piece like this It drives me. Whoa, whoa too good. Too good.  I would rather just have it not be on there. I don't know. Yeah Just cut it because then somebody will still show up in our comments be like, well, actually you forgot the plus one bravery from Criminals Oh, you forgot crime.  So you It's up shy hammer. I hope you're doing well brother. Uh, the um Yeah, so like I agree. This is where the new developer, by the way Needs to step in and be like when he gets a war scroll from the designer and he yet has a rule like this on it He needs to stand up walk over to that guy's cube I mean assuming they're back in the office is somebody right and go Okay, either this rule says plus two bravery to every destruction model on the table or it gets cut. You choose right now Those are your options Okay, this does not fly on this model. Stop it That's okay for a 90 point banner bearer or something Right. They're probably raised his points by like 10 Yeah Like again, I don't care. Just make it it should either not be there or be something that's not Soaking up your memory and causing you to have a weird bubble around him for dumb reasons. Okay Which by the way, I don't want to keep people around him because he hurts them Okay, that's sure. Yeah once he's with it when they win six.  Yeah, it's like one of the bravery for that paddle shark test Yeah, but overall he's great Uh, so yeah, he's what he's what he should be like The main thing is just a point. We don't we don't know but I mean it's probably I suspect it's fair to say he's over pointed, but we don't know So, you know, we haven't seen a scenarios. We don't know secondaries Like how how's it gonna get our hero monsters going to be in terms of scenarios and secondaries and all of that? I mean his obvious counter is the obvious counter to all these kinds of pieces which is mortal wound damage From range in particular chaff him up because he's not very fast and he doesn't fly He's pretty easy to control like you can hurt him pretty. Yeah, right Right, right So, yep, yeah Only what he should be sure. Yeah, I like Matthew W He says plus one bravery for you to holy within six inches for the phase if you roll a five plus exactly That's what it feels like, right like That's what it feels like. Okay So yeah, I think he's he's fun. I think he feels like what he should be He's probably again like it's hard to evaluate points in the current world We live in but you know, again, not the most competitive piece but seems super fun Yeah, he's gonna take bubs really well.  He's twos the wound base Any negatives, you know pop our finest hour potentially To get back up to that twos so a lot of the times probably twos and twos Or at worst threes and twos since the negatives and positives are not going to stack It's only going to be one up or down either way, right? So yeah I mean, whatever he touches he should do some work against Uh, I agree. Yep. Like I mean, you know He does a lot of damage when you put him on twos and twos by the way like a lot A lot so, you know It'll be an interesting piece because he is naturally more dangerous to a non-competitive player Okay, like somebody who doesn't really carefully chaff and stuff like that.  So he just spends the game picking up like hundred point units It's like, oh Okay This is why I don't have to worry about coherency with my six man cryptorer units Because they'll be like maybe one left after cragnos runs straight into A What's chaff never heard of it. All right, let's talk about this fight gets Uh, yes Uh, nothing actually new brings together all the white dwarf articles into the three Allegiances. So here we've got the maws of jorke Maws of jorke as as we know they are called there is a you now you might notice in your copy of cragnos There's a misprint and that isn't actually what it's called, but that is the correct wording So if you got the misprint, don't worry about it. Just always say maws of jorke from now on that is that is correct So the maws of jorke the grim scuttle and logs mega mob basically squig spiders and troggs respectively Uh, so it's exactly the same from the white dwarf. It's just a reprint of the previously agencies Yeah, as well as the associated battalions, which are going away from magic play realistically And it's a uh, and and they updated the Loonshrine to be to just be inclusive of everything based on your general Right. So like if your general's the troll then it works for trolls. If it works for Babad then it works for Babad I think that's great because then you don't have to take these sub factions to to get that Yes, that is an advantage like you can if you're in a normal gloom-spot army and you're not in the sub faction But you've got like a squig boss general then it works for squiggies, right? So Just by default also want to point out it's it's called contest of generals now not magic play. Oh, there you go. Sorry We're moving through word save and contest of jinn is it's a mouthful Everything's got to be longer. Yeah, so gets is fine. I liked all of these things Great. Thank you for putting them all into an easy to access Resource, I guess so that's fine. I have never looked at any of these wide dwarfs. Is there anything in here that's competitively compelling With that with the three Yeah, I mean maws of jork is the closest one to something competitive Yeah, you could if if your goal is like I want to have a good time at the tournament and push for a solid three two If I play well as everybody should Yeah, then sure maws of jork could get there in the hands of a good player. Yeah. Yeah.  Like those are The grim scuttle is just like you can't build a castle on a foundation of sand and that's what the grim scuttle one ultimately is right like Spider writers are one of the 10 worst roles in the game. I stand behind that so anything based on them Oh, it says basically the main unit is just It's not gonna go real far So there you go Okay, cool. So I was so happy I found this meme by the way the reprint reprint everywhere meme Like I really had to look around for the right meme for this and it just happened to exist. So Life is all memes now. Okay Now it's the best parts. Yeah, we can in the show talking here. Let's let's go brent Well, I'm just gonna let you take us through this tyler So we're starting with the the the the new uh, so sylvaneth new war scrolls But most importantly an interesting change to woods. So I have some notes on the screen here tyler for everybody else to read But why don't you tell us why you're so excited mr. Sylvaneth For these. Oh, well, can I let brent do the honors first? Whoever what am I doing right? You want to do the honors of sylvaneth?  Oh my god. She was a sylvaneth player.  Uh, we just tried to jam as many broken realms cragnos rules in here That's we rolling ones release schedule right now. It's coming out It's coming out All right Yeah, so Shoe played a laryl. Um, obviously used the wild woods Um, we did not have a war song revnex that didn't exist and I used Pretty much all yeah all of the new scaven stuff. So Cool. Yeah. No, you should talk about this How did it how did it how did soon I feel without no spoilers, but in general how did it? Well, I mean good, especially if we're talking about the uh, the wild woods you can actually put them on the table now And that's who is the biggest The biggest uh a boon here is that yeah Yeah, um shoe made a lot of wild woods and most of them were just the single tree because that's All that would wind up fitting Yeah, that's better than none.  Yeah, pop out of the woods or whatever Right, um, then like yeah, you're golden now. I did not see this change coming I'll be honest again. I still stand behind our change. It would have been better But yeah Hey, look you got to bring less now. So that's great every Every old like three section of woods it used to take now can be three woods That is a big win. Yeah stonks I can't wait till I see the competitive player who buys all the woods just to get the biggest section of woods And then of course the rest on ebay So, uh as the only person as the one player who lost So the one uh for the silvanet current silvanet book the one gt when they have was beating me in the finals So I think I have a room to talk about this So I really do love the uh Linocyte blocking thing because it's just in the fact that it doesn't block linocyte for the silvanet Which never made sense to me. I was playing shoe on the uh, this is actually a video on the channel And he set down trees and I'm just like you just blocked all the shots from your hunters now You know in my head. I'm like, thanks brother, but it's like it it didn't make sense to me So now that you can shoot through your own woods as hunters The cast spell I still I wish you guys the cast spell. Yeah. Yeah. See you guys Uh, I wish that uh, the tin wound thing wasn't there because I'm thinking yeah Just narratively like those are trees. They're treatment You should not be able to differentiate the trees from the treatment. So that's the thing I didn't think was necessary, but I I didn't change I dig the change. I uh you know, hopefully it will uh Stop silvanet players for complaining so much because that's As somebody who lost them in the finals, um, but yeah, I I dig the change and um, you know As long as people can play with their models because I remember rocking up to some tournaments and in my head I'm like, I'm glad I'm not a silvanet player at this tournament because I'm looking at the train Right, and there's like one place you can put your third tree Right, so I think a lot of to's wouldn't really think about that when setting train up Yeah, absolutely yeah, all right, so uh, we start with one change right off the bat though Initial wildly had to place it had to be I think more than six inches from objectives So they've standardized that now more than three inches from all of the train and objectives for initial one And then any additional ones is also more than three from train and objectives. So that's awesome I only got some standardization and then yeah, you guys covered it with the other the other changes One little thing they took basically the two roles that they had with the wildwood which Basically never amounted to anything like maybe once in 50 games it might come into play Where you would have to roll a six at I think the end of the charge phase To do d3 model wounds. Oh, sure. Yeah Yeah, and then you could also rouse it by magic And that was also I think on a six maybe a five you could do d3 model wounds But yeah, it also never came into play particularly with the 2019 book But yeah, now if you have what is it here a Sylvaneth Wizard Let's see add some of the rules for the actual awaken wild with the vengeful four spirits. Yeah At the end of the charge phase roll a dice for each unit that does not have the sylvaneth keyword That is within one inch of an awakened wildwood Add two to the roll if any wizards or endless spells are within six inches of that awakened wildwood on a six plus The unit suffers d3 mortal wounds Yeah, that's sweet. I like that I mean We're actually going to get some benefit benefit out of that for once The endless spell piece is really cool Because we've got the the vengeful skull root for example, which you know if we're going to be double tapping credits or endless Spells that vengeful skull root is going to be a lot more relevant now potentially as well depending on the value So sure. Yeah But uh, yeah, it's not ideal, but it's up in the right direction with the wildwood definitely okay Next up we've got a laurel the ever queen Uh, narratively very important in the story Uh of robed realms overall you know ready to Ready to ready to jump out in the age of the beast the age of life So, uh, a laurel is expensive. My answer here is a laurel is expensive but better Especially in 3.0 So, you know 16 wounds three up save increased healing heals 2d6 herself in the hero phase And then still does her big bubble of d3 Counts as a general in addition, which is nice. So she has the i'm a general in addition to whoever else you pick always solid Especially now that we know that you know having a general on the battlefield gives you a command point Retreat and shoot or charge Uh Still quite susceptible to doing less damage when she's wounded like her major damage thing is still very Her major damage is just still very tied to her wound chart But she does heal like a beast So, you know, she can And again, she is primed for 3.0 with hero and monster abilities, right?  I can take that Oh, yeah, uh, so I'll look at her from uh, uh, living cities player as well as uh, Grand Alliance player one of my favorite things about her is if you look at her like under the Her like wizard section she on her war scroll. She knows the spell lore from the Sylvaneth book Yep So she knows that because I would play a lot of grand alliance and I wouldn't have enough spells You know, especially if you're not playing in like, uh, like the realms and Scott You just have missing shield and whatever's on the war scroll than arcane bolt So now the fact that she knows the spells, which is huge to me Um, yeah in living cities, you know coming in from the side. She has a shooting attack and I think she's definitely uh, you know I think I don't know if uh, as Not a Sylvaneth player if this what people wanted, but I think it's improved from what she was She still has a summon, which is awesome. And uh, yeah in three point out. She definitely has 3.0 points though. So Yeah, yeah indeed Yeah, I think to properly evaluate her we've got to see the rest of the points because she's if if like we Don't see much of a points move Then I think it's pretty easy to say she's overcosted still if we do see big points moves with stuff like that across the board and like And all like if archion goes to a thousand points And you know the four mentioned mega boss on maw crushers like 580 or something like that, right? If that's the kind of points moves then, you know, we live then we're in a whole different world and we've got to reevaluate everything Right, right. It's hard to say Um jack i'm gonna i'm actually Forgive me in advance. Oh 160 millimeter base It's just the tick over six inches correct.  Frankly.  So And if I bought her from the side she wouldn't be able to summon so see Yeah, it's making you play better jack. That's what he's doing by removing that temptation Yeah Still with that strike then melts away commandability. I mean she's hot with that 16 inch, you know up 16 inches. I mean she could retreat and do that retreat. Yeah 16 inches Shoot pop that again another 16 inches charge. Yeah, I mean that's pretty amazing Yeah, and I point out that her metamorphosis spell Uh deals mortal wounds on a three plus now instead of a four plus and I know that sounds Maybe not that different, but I did just play a game where two of my heroes were turned into trees Which is horrifying.  So it's like it's still just the casting roll It's not the unmodified casting roll. That's the number of dice that you roll right and three up steal mortal wounds So put on thrown of binds get the plus two to cast Use metamorphosis Um, and then watch Watch your your opponent I don't know just The horror in my eyes as my poor helpless gave and mutated into gnarled trees but um If spell portal does not change or if it doesn't go up even more points Well, we've got at least one game with with what spell portal does now Oh, yeah, she's she's scary right now with the ranged output. I mean that's spear twos and twos So maybe look out sir threes and twos I don't know if you can pop that command ability for the plus one to hit in the shooting phase That new command ability or is that melee only? I don't know if we know that yet. Yeah, because I thought they like combined Like volley fire and all out assault essentially and they're just made In the shooting or yeah, I think when it when you select a shooter attack you get plus one to hit Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's I mean, yeah, it's it's one attack So it you might miss her once in a while But I mean on average you should get that through most of the time for that flat six damage potentially something to So don't worry Yeah, it's her she just has Really interesting range threat now. I mean her utility has really gone up And so it's six 40 inch threat range 24 and 16 or up to 16 She seems to be one of those models where the amount of healing you potentially do I mean as long as you don't roll snake eyes whatever on the 2d6 healing It's going to be a little all or nothing She's going to be dead or she's going to be she should be pretty high up on her bracket in a lot of cases Um, yeah, you can get just crazy healing You know d3 from the drug reactions Null roots another potential d3 Regrowth another d6 2d6 base life surge She could double up regrowth and life surge were total of 2d6 with or built in 2d6 in living city Don't worry. I let you know that oh, she heals 2d6 the hero phase aka she heals two for you Sure Yeah, I mean I have to wonder Okay, like the other possibility is that in the new edition They're kind of pricing the gods into the fun range Not into the competitive range Which I don't know that I would hate Okay, let me just say that because I would still play them all the time in my games and like just like my my um You know my my basement games or whatever But if I didn't go to every tournament and see them all on every like if every top zinseless didn't include archaeon And every you know what I mean like and every the the big question the big litmus test here is going to be marathi Yeah Yeah, god Undercosted as she is right. Yeah, so it's like to throw her in a space where then she's just in like The fun zone Like I don't know at least to me. It seems like marathi is so like ingrained in like the identity of Yeah, she's such a power be a bummer, you know, but yeah I mean and you don't have to put them like if if the if the calculation says There's she's supposed to be 700 then you make her like 720 or 730 Right, you don't have to go like that far out of the bounds You just kind of air a little bit on the side of Of too high Right and you could achieve that All right, and that makes sense to me because as I imagine then it's just like the spider-man meme of like them like pointing at each other Exactly All right, all right. Yeah, well So the she's got her commandability I think it's going to be a lot more relevant in this edition So presumably we want to have more command points that we can use as we know we're pluses to hits pluses to word We're gonna have not enough command points I do agree with her her command ability will be good I think that the sort of anything that says like re-roll ones actually probably increases in value a lot Right, but that being said, I think you're going to be command point Starved in the edition All these options Yeah What did you say increases in value a lot? But like re-rolling ones, I think is what I said. Yeah, if I had to There it is the stonks on re-rolling ones are up Yeah, I mean so I I agree with you. I think that is that commandability solid. Yeah Yeah, so I mean again, it's cry knows but cry knows but flies which helps reduce the ability to chaper And she also has yeah more ranged output now It's a little ironic Almost wonder if someone was deliberately trolling a 7th players where they literally gave the war song revenant The two things that we've been whinging about for years that we would like to have on a lateral Well, let's talk about him Boom war song revenant. So, uh, obviously eight inch moves seven wombs five up save eight bravery He's got a decent little attack profile five attacks three's and three's neg one for two damage not too shabby. He's all right He's all right. Uh, he has another flying model. He's got a four plus ward save. So that's nice Uh double caster with a bonus if near a wood, which is nice. So not only can he double cast But he also actually does get a bonus to cast.  I think the revenant's solid. I like I like the revenant here This is this is leo's best work similar to a larryl. Yes Similar to a larryl. He also knows the lore of the deepwood on his worst scroll. Yes.  She's such an investment Right, but this guy bringing all the spells with him all the time even in like Even in sylvanas, just like, okay, great. He just he just gets it all like fantastic. I've got options, right But then also if he ends up, he's very very uh Alliable or very very very capable of being brought into like a living city or whatever this dude seems quite versatile Uh, I I enjoy him now. He won't get his little plus one to wound very air plus on the cast Sorry, very easily outside of his home base, but still I like him right For everybody's rep in case anybody didn't know the lore of the deepwood does not include verdant blessing So like you're not going to be able to take a larryl or the war song and so popping off wildwoods and living city or whatever Yeah, right But but yeah, so still amazing. I don't I've got a lot of thoughts on this on this fella So I wanted you guys start Brent you want to start? I was just gonna ask are there any other non-named heroes that know an entire lore? I guess it's just so no, no It's the only one because because the others are all named because they all showed up in this book This is the first time we're seeing the and they know the whole lore thing Oh, okay, never mind. So and and everybody else by happenstances is named, right? There are other instances of it in this book multiple, but they're all named Cool, gotcha. Jack, you got any thoughts? Oh, no, I was just I was The first save is also pretty good But I'm more I'm jazzed about the know and all the lore because I don't play subreddit So I look at how can I use this thing? So, right? How can I take this into living cities? Yeah, absolutely Yeah, yeah, how can I do this and other things and the fact that you know, because one of the spells you do have is the A core not acorn gauges, but the plus two to cast the third of lines And giving this guy he has a natural plus one to cast and never plus two to cast this plus three to cast Yep, 100% I haven't even looked at the living city artifacts or command traits Maybe they're I don't know if you know if and if there might be any interesting combos with him as a general or just taking an artifact living city The shape of it means there's a range attack, but you know, it's there's there's interesting stuff there Okay, so Yeah, I think this is gonna find its way into lonesome nephalus and 3.0 I would suspect there is a number of options number of builds that you can do with this fellow again Depending on what we learn as the weeks took by Okay, so usually outside of dreadwood dreadwood was mostly what was played competitively because you didn't have a way to reliably You need to reliably get trees down like you show up at a tournament and like you guys said earlier You didn't know but what the terrain that was going to be are going to be like woods down where you need to Are you going to be able to summon woods in general? Yeah, so you take dreadwood take that off the table. You might also still take a tree lord ancient So you'd have one auto wildwood to complement the dreadwood teleport This guy could be a a fill in instead of for the tree lord ancients sort of an alternative Mainly because he's got a couple ways as jack just alluded to to have reliable wildwood summoning with verdant blessing Yep, so Yeah, you can outside of a glade you could get this dude up to uh plus four to cast take Uh, the existence the built-in casting bonus while the remnants Glade lore for another throne for plus two Plus four And then of course you can stack that at least right now with throne So you could get just some insane casting bonuses with that build again outside of glades Another outside of glade you can do what the chris welfare Originated number years ago more than we went to podcast the mortal wind bomb So we used to do this with branch witches unlike a bellwind and maybe a spell portal He has a buffed up version of the branch witches spell It's uh, like a swarm of spiked spell. Yeah, so you so you've got that and you've got say deadly harvest As part of the deep wood lore which starts out on a three inch range Pick every enemy unit be three mortal winds with spell singer You can buff that up all the spells to Plus six inches. It's like a little bellwinds Through through the spell singer command trade So that could be I think 15 inches on the swarm of spites all enemy within 15 inches Whatever I think it's whatever you roll Yeah, and potentially with those casting bonuses you can get with throne of vines Yeah, uh, yes. It is just like so for his spell for unleashed by a swarm of spites It is you roll a number of dice equal to the casting roll That is correct not unmodified. So if you give him like plus four or plus anything in the method you've described like Let's just say his own bonus plus throne Right, uh, then you're All of a sudden like you have, uh You know you have a pretty good chance to roll a decent number of dice on every unit within nine engines, right? Yeah, 100% yeah. Yeah, so that can be 15 inches with spell singer We lost tyler Tyler your audio cut out for Can he hear us he hear us that's the question I think his his uh, his head said died. Okay. Well, we'll keep talking while he fixes that So I think he's we we got to get him some some beats or something like that in that rake on Uh, yeah, I think I think this guy's solid overall Uh, I like for all the reasons tyler's saying I just think he can fit into a lot of different Items you'll probably need to also change your settings in there tyler Just to warn you while you're going around like make it find a new device, but we'll let him play with that Jack did she Get a war song Revenant Want him to get one. He's already got like the Full I know I mentioned in the chat that he got the uh, grandpire um, and Yeah, and so I don't know. I just don't want him to sell this stuff No, I hope he's not like I these are all overall like the We spent a lot of time on selvin eth 1 because obviously tyler's a huge selvin eth fan Right, but also because I think these are honestly for three just basically three changes right We actually had some pretty big impacts here I think to what overall like your options are In selvin eth. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with allarial and how much of that is just Uh, you know the very positive change to the woods and this guy who I think is a really interesting enabler for a lot of strats right So two of those are probably then some of the biggest things like the rules for the woods sucked And you wanted allarial to be cool Right, maybe you fixed those things great right right Yeah, I mean just shooting through woods like that alone right like as jack mentioned. I just it always I just I whatever Let's not re-litigate the past. I don't know how you ever gotten that place to begin with That one was I mean that was bad, but for me it was more about Like shoo not even being able to place them before that sure like and when they changed from like when they introduced the new model I was like, oh, that's awesome.  So and it's still not that but this is right. So this is At least a little closer to that at least like okay, you have a different model than the silveneth wild woods you had before Do something with it right right do you think do you think the war song revenue is too expensive to take too? Uh I don't know. I don't know that it'd be doing a huge amount of work if you double up on them But no, I don't think he's outpriced where you could take two. All right. Let's talk Tyler. Can we hear you? Nope, he can't hear us yet. Okay That's fine. We'll keep going. I think you could I'm just not sure it's actually going to be the best use to your points That would be my answer Yeah, how many spells in the lore of the deepwood do you want to cast? Right like I think you're just gonna quickly hit kind of a a diminishing marginal utility Of like what you're getting out of him Right. There's a super what we refer to as old timey bicycle rules of like multiple Like hoops you have to jump through sure, you know to get through yeah one of those bells. It's like You like an enemy unit that is this close to a silveneth wild wood Then if your friendly unit is this close to your caster, then you can re-roll ones to hit and wound. It's something like that it's Yeah, there's a lot of like Everything has aligned perfectly for Some like, you know, it's yeah, yeah, it's cast on a seven too. It's also like Hey, I didn't get it. I don't care. Wow Uh, he says can we talk about the rack of eggs? No No, we cannot. All right. So sorry, Tyler, but we're moving on he can come back and finish up any thoughts He has on silveneth Let's let's keep moving All right slanish Vince this is all you. All right. Well, I'm ready. I'm ready to talk Don't you have a slanish army jack? I'm pretty sure you do Yeah, I do. I do. I love slanish I spend a lot of people who put slanish away when vince first called For people to put it away because it was just it was so hard to play a Fun game casual game. Yeah, it just didn't it did not play a fun game Yeah, I was just like, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that to you. I'm just following the rules Whoops, you're dead. But I was like, but I didn't nearly table you with firesliders because you rolled the worst game in existence Yeah, I don't yeah, that's one of my favorite bow reports. Well, you gotta be able to All right, well these models weren't gonna change your fate in that game. So indeed, uh, let's talk about dex sessa And senessa the twins Okay Okay, I've got a lot of thoughts and you people are gonna listen to everything that I have to say All right The models are cool. So These are the most gorgeous models they've done Full stop As I said before by the way, uh, while we're all in the middle of this rant hit like if you like if you like these sorts of Rants and hit like if you don't like these sorts of rants Again, you two will know the difference just hit like we really appreciate it. It's awesome. Okay, so These models are absolutely beautiful full stop. We all know that they're gorgeous They're some of the best we've ever seen these are the living embodiments of the split essence of slanesh itself the god Chained by four elven deities in the realm between realms and only through Her his clever craftiness and tempting of marathi and to her ultimate power Did she then manage to send a shard an essence a piece of herself out into the realms Which drew The hosts of slanesh from across the infinite planes Of the mortal realms.   Can you guys hear me?  You don't you guys. It doesn't make any sense. That's insanity Okay, and by the way, no spoilers to the narrative but but uh Boy, oh boy. Is this the most depressing not only are they chumps on scroll they are chumps in the story I have never seen a less impressive introduction To a character than these two Okay, that's so sad And together they'd be lucky to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. So I'm excited about that So let's break them down Okay Here we go. Okay real quickly. Can I just call this like the disappointing like wrestling debut? Like there's all this build-up all this hype and then they show up and uh Don't deliver Okay, dexessa the talon of slanesh That's too strong Again, if you're going to give out these subtitles the talon of slanesh The end of the claw that could scrape a tear across the mortal realms. No, no dexessa the hangnail of slanesh is appropriate Okay. All right 12 inch move one not fast enough. Why is this not a 14 inch movement? Everything in slanesh that's good That's fast as 14 inches. Why is this moving slower? one, okay Now, yes, I know the later thing I'm going to mention it but still makes me angry It is a melee focused monster that does very little damage. Her damage is average at best I have to get her into fights and get her fighting To get her attacks boosted up because at after this model has fought for the first time at the start of each battle rounds Add one to the attacks characteristics of this model's weapons. So it's only battle round So if I get her fighting in round one, which is what I now my goal has to be then And I can keep her fighting in alive. I get plus one in two three four five. Yay. Yay. Yay Okay um She is a hero monster And would normally be wall prime for 3.0 But she's 10 wounds and 10 wounds is the worst wounds you can have in 3.0 all of the things we've seen so far Have said like oh this blocks the line of sight Unless you're 10 wounds or more this, you know, whatever all the things they've previewed so far Have said if you're 10 wounds or more you don't get to play Right, so I assume that's just going to continue. I assume they picked a universal cut point And said more than 10 wounds means you don't get to play in the pool anymore And nine wounds or less you're in the pool So dex sasa has the worst amount of wounds in the game. Literally. This is the worst wound number in the game Mark my words Okay She does have run and retreat and charge Which is very cool. That's how frankly that should have just been the locus in slanesh I've said it before I'll say it again We all just should have like slanesh's locus should just be either run in charge or retreat in charge Or both of it's a greater demon or some crap like that Easy That's what slanesh is about being fast and live and in and out and stabby stabby stabby stabby stabby because that's what we do Okay Her average damage against a four up save is 5.41 well Take that Take that chaff unit of 10 guys that she barely clears half of Both of the profiles 5.41. Seriously. Oh my god. That's and yes, that is with the exploding on sixes Battle Oh my gosh. Wow. All right And you know, she makes it so you don't take battle shock test for friendly slanesh demon units holy within 12 inches slanesh demon Well, fantastic. I'm glad you can't inspire the mortals Okay, the people who actually suffer from battle shock in this army All right Not the daemonettes who I if you like if you take one unit of 30 daemonettes You've really probably already made a wrong choice But nonetheless, they're pretty bit inert to battle shock being like bravery 10 And having their own like pop back into existence on a one and whatever right Her redeeming thing is yes. She can use a command ability On a friendly slanesh demon unit without a command point being spent Okay, great. So I'm assuming Literally the last sentence on her scroll is the whole reason I'm taking her for That's it because she ain't fighting She ain't doing anything else So her her her reason is I get 10 free command points, which admittedly super good super good Okay But that's not the talent of slanesh if her thing is she has free command point That's it because if you put her into anything she's just dead She's 10 wounds on a four up save. Yes. She's got an egg one to be hit. Oh no What will all of the melee units in this game do those new stormcasts are gonna like Down come the annihilators. They mortal wounder They charge on seven inches Wham into her with those shields and then hammer into the ground And then she did then they just look at this stain and they were like, wait That was a shard of slanesh. That wasn't hard. Why did we even chain this got up? That was too easy Okay So anyways, but she's got 10 free command points. So I guess that's good. I guess that's why I'm paying the points There we go All right rant over I think you covered it. I think we're good Okay Uh Now that being said I did order two of these and I'm gonna put them both in Of course, of course She's I'm gonna use this one for command points at the other like they both have a trick That's literally the only reason you run them Okay Let's talk senessa Uh, actually my favorite one because she has the non peacock. She's the one with just the wings Out to the side, right? And they both do a fly which, you know, I didn't I kind of mentioned it offhand But like they're basically nothing flies in slanesh and flying is good Senessa nine wounds. Oh Like uh, like a fine wine nine wounds is welcome to clearing the bar okay, and Uh, other than that most of the same stuff going on here.  Cool fine great um It's a solid range attack that's got a good range like 18 inches bam d6 potential for d6 mortal wounds really great Yeah, um, and obviously people aren't going to be using like the plus one To save thing most likely and whatever whatever and it wouldn't affect it anyway. So, uh She has the voice of slanesh which lets her like use command abilities from any distance to the rest of the battlefield I don't know how ultimately powerful that is because, um Like your unit champions can use command points now as we saw in the articles So I don't know how many like I don't know who she's affecting with this Uh, right. Yeah, most of the units you have probably she doesn't have her own Command ability that she would be trying to broadcast of any value right and so like you just Most everything you're going to fight with in slanesh your slick blades have a champion Your daemonettes have a champion like all those units you care to fight with have champions So they can just do it themselves, right? So like there you go Mm-hmm and, uh, you know her spell is is actually kind of interesting But she can also cast at any range even though it says three inches she can like once around go But be and shoot it out any range she can do with that and the the um Peveen of slanesh Um, and you know, uh plus one to hit for things that target that hero is cool Obviously, there's not a lot of range attacks But she could actually end up being interesting for Allies for people that do use a lot of range targeting. I don't know what that is like obviously I know there's like I don't care about bliss barbs and and And either of their incarnation. I think they're both not very good, but Um, but nonetheless, I do think that like if you were going to run them I think she's a pretty integral piece to that. I like her a lot better than her sister a lot better Because because she clears the nine wound. She's also 20 points cheaper Yeah All 10 things should be cheaper than their same model one is nine wounds one is 10 wounds the 10 wound should be 20 points cheaper than the nine wound one There you go. Mm-hmm. So like there needs to be literally this thing that's called like this drop of this penalty, right? Um Yeah, so, you know, there you go And I see chorff salad said it must be so terrible to get new models and that i'm butthurt. I'm not I'm really not It's just it's just it's a fun rant, right? Like look man. It's all it's all in good fun This just doesn't live up to the hype like when you say this is the progeny of sonesh that we spent three books building up for And then I get this scroll out of it expectations matter Okay, well, I figured it out. So these are twins, right? Yeah, but both of them are Danny DeVito Ah I'm missing my shorts.  If they had just been like, oh, here's two new randos That we're introducing in this story right And we made some models for them like the witch hunters effectively, right? Those are just two randos from the world who showed up Right. Um, I'd be like, yeah, okay fine Like neat Some kind of weird cool unique demon, right? Like that's fine Do you think there's much utility out of that? They know all of these spells from the looks like three different lures No, because all of the spells are bad Okay And she's only got one cast and she's a one cast wizard. Yeah, yeah, which okay. That doesn't really make sense So it looks like it's mostly just about that 30 inch threat range shooting attack 12 and 18 just to try to place that where you need it and hope you don't roll a one sure Uh, my other army is scaven. So yes, I have plenty of metal and fine cast in that army homie So don't worry. I got I got I got I understand your pain. I feel you. Okay. Go ahead.  Yeah, I mean The slanash is gonna struggle a lot of matchups to get spells off. I mean a six is not easy And That's it's a little situational to begin with.  Yeah, I it's not really adding up I mean 260 points for mostly the ability to Place a d6 mortal wounds where you want to but then you're in the kill box anyway at 18 inches Sure, because it's gonna it's gonna blow up.  Whatever response to that unless you're on a double or something Yeah, but Yeah, I mean my my ultimate feeling with these two is just they were a letdown for what I was expecting based on the lore Now actually in play. They're both fine enough. I'll play with them in my army You know, like slanash as a whole is not in a great Uh in a great place right now. Um, so, you know and this to I got a question like that Pose, do you ever feel like there's some units slash armies that are um paying for sins of the past? Of course, you always pay for the past. Yeah I can think of my time Thunder tusks, they definitely paid for the sins of the past. I feel slanash is still paying The pendulum swings. Yes 100% If you if and this is true for like everything if there was something there's stuff still paying for the sins of 8th edition my man They gotta like they gotta spend a long time in purgatory to work off those sins Uh, so yeah, it's there Uh, so anyways, there you go. That's slanash. That's my breakdown in the end. They're fine They don't live up to their narrative and they're like, okay at best. So there you go I'll just include one thing that I wish it's like, yeah, they've got that or the command free command a turn. I don't know to me Like they're they're lore, you know describes like such a like a celebration of them coming into existence and um kind of not to like Not go too deep into the narrative, but like basically wherever they go people just start like Celebrating in the most horrific ways possible. Yeah, like debauchery just immediately happens. Yes And that's not represented on the worst rules at all. It seemed like that would have been an easy like well, this is This is what we want to do with this thing and there's a million rules you could go, you know to Get let them come. Yeah to buff things around them and uh, I was surprised they didn't They don't have that Yeah, 100% me too City's a sigmar away from debauchery Oh, I say bring it on. Okay Somebody take a drink. I said, yeah 100% Take another drink. There you go. There you go All right. Uh, so we have an interesting new city with some cool abilities. I should say new city not cities, but that's fine So excelsius Uh, uh, yeah jack you want to like I've got all the facts up here You're the city's player. Take us there excelsius man. What do you what do you think about this? One of my favorite things about the broken realms And just as a aos player by the cities to see A city sigmar player just the fact that you know, this stuff is growing And we're getting these little things and it's you know, I wouldn't say it's easy to make them but it's just like You just a couple little things and like you have a whole new Sandbox to plan Which sees sigmar definitely is because there's so many options But there's little combos you can have. I love that they brought that grip grip for the charm.  It's so cool. And there's little combos like I love the uh command trait retreat and charge for a general giving that to like your, um Flame spire phoenix and anointed on there so you can retreat and you know, give them that little He has fire over me do more wounds And then he also gets an egg one to be hit both melee and shooting Which is relevant because I think they shall If he charges back in right he can trigger getting shot And he gets one to his owner To his own hits, but that's great. Yeah Yeah, I definitely shout out rocko your boy. Uh, he's also a fellow youtuber now He was just a super fan, but he's a great guy who I'm rooming with this weekend Uh, he pointed that out to me and he's uh, he plays cities That's what he's bringing for the tournament and he's a big fan of this Do I think it is as competitive as the stuff that came in the city's signal City's a sigmar book like, you know, tempest I or living cities, uh, maybe not But uh, I do love just the fact that it's going and uh, yeah, and they Yes, they have three spells and they exist. They were there's some stuff you're like, uh Yeah, I wasn't too, uh, too thrilled with anything, but uh, definitely love You're in ger and uh, it's just expanding. Yeah Yeah, that gift of prophecy is pretty sweet Well, uh dice on a one subtract one from hit rolls for tax made by that unit in the phase on a two to six I want to hit rolls for tax made by that unit. Yeah, man. It's cool.   I I agree with you. I think you nailed most of the things that I I also picked out as highlights jack Um, I did think the the glimmering artifact was kind of cool where once for value You can set the value of a single hit wound save run or oh, yes And so little kairos little kairos failure little mini kairos. Yeah, I did appreciate that one Um, and I thought that like this it's a hard one to use but the command trait darkest secrets Where at the start of combat you can pick a hero within three and they can't use command abilities until the next combat phase I thought that was pretty interesting because like again all of this amazing command abilities in um in What am I trying to say uh in 3.0 that we've seen Right, I was like wow the ability to shut all those off plus whatever's on their scroll It's just tough because that's a really short range like you got to have somebody who gets in there But again, this is an army that could take like, uh, a frost venix, which is generally a pretty Uh, you know pretty durable unit, right? So you it's he's okay to get in there and mix it up. He can mix it up Yeah, definitely I'm just going full narrative with this army and if darkest secrets can stop somebody from using command abilities It's got to be that your hero just told them something Horrible the darkest secret like I haven't showered today. There's no command abilities. There you go Uh, all right Uh, and then the witch hunters, uh, let's talk about doralia and the van densed as it were Yeah So it's interesting that you can take them individually that they're not a pair, right? Like when I saw them, I just assumed they were going to be two models for one cost And I love how they decide when they decide to do this is the funniest thing to me Okay, because like we have We have All of the heroes from cursed city. That's one thing Like heroes and all the bad guys that's seven or seven points You got the the the little what are the little gov, govapalooza boys? They're all one thing, but these two not they're good. They can just independent operators, right? Thank thank god because there's sure sex one that you you're going to take over another. Yeah for sure Uh, I agree. Uh, so to me doralia is the clear winner, right? Just like so clearly the winner Uh five inch move five wounds four up save. They do both have a five up ward as well Which is great She has a really nice range attack her crossbow. I love that just crossbow Not even like blessed crossbow or heavy crossbow or special crossbow. Nope just crossbow So 24 inch range one attack threes and threes neg two two damage. However If she doesn't move Then you get to add plus one attack and plus one to hit To that thing. So now it's two attacks on twos and threes neg two two damage and If she shoots a wizard or a demon then it's a four damage pop Uh, hello, that's really really good Boom boom. Yeah And one thing that's really good about these guys is uh, so if you get all the cursed city stuff They all have a city attached to them. These guys just have cities of sigmar So they can fit into any city and get the bonus abilities like if you take her with living cities She can come up from the side pop a wizard And and a plus, you know hitting on twos maybe look out sir, but she's doing four damage and great wizards Oh man, that's great. I don't think about that. Yeah pops in gets set up. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely keep her keep her safe early No, no splash damage for her That's yeah, that's so good. Wow. Yep. She fits into all the different cities. Yep. So absolutely Uh, yeah, I I I dig deralia. She's uh, she's a winner Uh 115 points fine, especially the point increases can't expect and that's sure all day for for what she can do Yeah, absolutely. Uh, good good shout current set in tempest eye potentially twos and twos Because she doesn't move and she's near the hawkeye general plus one to wound Like now we're now we're cooking with butter over here. Right like yes I like where this is at just pop pop Uh, so yeah dig it dig it and even though you're probably shooting it wizards I do think it's cool. She can shoot the endless spells, you know back to like Yeah, the narrative disappointment of the slanash war scrolls. How about the big narrative thumbs up Of the spell hunter being able to actually hunt spells like I I wouldn't have thought of that as like a mechanic either Where they're just like, okay, there's really no way for them to do this But whatever shoot the spell and I love that she can split her attacks Okay, she doesn't move and she's got two shots She can pull what we will colloquially call the jack attack Right where she's just like one at the end the spell and wanting your wizard who's wounded Right That would be the only reason I would take her dead just because he has more shots right to shoot in the spells He's got to get a lot closer to him though. And like with predatory on the spells clearly being better in the next uh in the next You know in 3.0 the ability to have these the derrally just shooting them down Right just being like no, I'm not wasting to spells pop pop pop get this get this weak sauce off of my table That's probably cool ability um So there you go Uh, I would point out that it's also pretty awesome Uh with unleash hell if she hasn't moved because she hasn't moved because it's not your turn And a demon unit charges near her and she's just like blam eight damage So that's not bad. So it's okay. You see what command point That would almost kill senesa So, uh, yeah, I think she's uh, I think she's great and then uh gaolin not as useful as his daughter clearly outclassed by the next generation Uh does still have the five up board But he does have retreat and uh, he does have retreat and shoot or charge He does still double damage, but it's only uh, it's not as useful because he only has a one Damage attack so it doesn't go to Fine, but you know, okay cool and his gun is a lot shorter range Um, but he does also have as jack mentioned, I think rightfully. So he does have the um three shots with his pistol And he has the endless spell spell thing too. So There you go Yeah, I mean, that's not too bad six attacks three threes minus one ran two damage against demons And maybe wizards situationally, but yeah, but yeah, it's not comparable. That's not Horrific. No, he's he's okay. Like don't go wrong. I don't think either of them are bad Yeah, at all. I actually think I am I am these legit so again expectations matter right and I was expecting Out of these two Something like the existing witch hunter or the black arc flea master like that's what I was expecting to get All right, little bar. Yeah the meanest witch hunter around he's 65 points Yeah, right Like that's when I was picturing right when I saw these guys spoiled I was like, oh, well, they're gonna be gorgeous models with probably like at best pretty like meh rules But then I read him and I was like, oh, okay. These have a use that, you know, they can do stuff Like this is great stuff Yeah, because cities of sigmar is not paying for the sins of the past. So that's right That's right So there you go. Yeah Yeah, he could be a like game piece, you know, like he comes online and try to keep him safe and then Yeah, come comes in late does some damage like a little mega boss on foot or something One of the little heroes and but I'm it's situational, but yeah, he's kind of he's kind of interesting. Yeah, uh, okay Uh sarah fun speaking of uh things that used to be demons and aren't anymore Let's talk about uh, let's talk about sarah fun Lord croak, which I just wrote croak is much different now sort of but maybe not but also yes So croak is now an 18 wound five inch move four up save guy His little force barrier is still basically like it was before or at least close enough There's a little small change, but it's for the most part. It's pretty much the same as before Uh, I mean if croak is in melee, we've we've gone off the rails as As a game so like it's not worth talking about right He can still push spells through his skinks. He's still a cp machine.  He can still pass balloons onto his bodyguards But there is a big change Go ahead jack Oh, uh, the it used to be just plus one to cast in dispel. Oh, that's right. That's that's my favorite one of my favorite things He's a natural plus two table wide unbind dispel. That's that's amazing You're right. I forgot I was always just thinking of him I didn't go bother to look at his old scroll when I wrote that I always thought of him as having more because he was always in because he had always set the heavens Or whatever right, um, I mean, let's face it croak was usually casting like plus four. Let's be honest, right so, um croak is 430 points, uh I don't think that's enough. I legit don't know but Like all of these things we've seen and then this guy comes in with this points value right here for a quad caster 18 Mr. In vulnerability over here like what? Yeah, get out. They they just made him enough so you can't ally him in That's all right What what was he 340 320 320 320, okay. Yeah. No, not not remotely enough The the answer is because they always feel like there's an anchoring and if they go too far people will get angry Like they I know they think about anchor pricing and my answer is I don't care You you pointed him like he's still under pointed and he's so much different than what he was before You had the opportunity to get rid of that anchoring Right like the reason starbucks can charge $8 for coffee is because it's not a corner diner coffee shop Right with like a pot of coffee just sitting there on the thing They reoriented the whole experience and went from 50 cents to $8 You could have done you did the same thing here Okay The big change is how he dies so he doesn't have a word save anymore Instead he has basically what his old rule was when he in in a os 1.0 sort of Sort of not exactly, but it's in the same ballpark Uh, so now his rule is at the start at the end of each phase phase Very important word that is going to do a lot of heavy lifting If any wounds or mortal wounds are allocated to this model Roll 3d6 and add the number of wounds and mortal wounds allocated to this model to the roll on a 20 plus Uh This model is slain on any other roll all wounds and mortal wounds allocated to this model are healed Okay, so jack would you like to tell the story of the first time you thought Okay Just had a club date uh two weekends ago and so um playing against croak I'm playing lumineff and that I think he was at a plus three unbiased natural because he had the constellation or whatever was So it wasn't get a lot of spells off. Uh, and so I he was in combat You know because I think croak is able to move up the board now People used to just sit back put him on a bell when do his thing But the fact that he's survivable you can actually get him up to take a little bit and not only like in the story He was surrounded by temple guard. Yeah, you did. Uh, you were just running you up Yeah, you did uh Yep, and so I charge a unit of uh, uh What are the wardens?  He was like, ah, whatever He rolled three sixes Meaning I killed lord croak by doing the minimal number of wounds Say He did it to save temple guard too, right? Yeah save to save temple guard.  It's wonderful. It's a wonderful story. Like I love that But that being said, I mean the dude is simply tougher now, right in most cases your role on 3d6 is 10 and a half So let's just call it 10 Right So in most cases he can absorb You know around 8 to 10 wounds and be pretty and like modal outcome is he full heals Right, so you have to put a lot of heat into him To actually bring him down if he's got if he's got his bodyguards Yep, right, which he will have his bodyguards Like unless that war scroll changes in the new edition and they or like or you know, they Say something about body guarding in some way right, he's gonna have that And so you've got to then like way more than double up to get that number of wounds into him Right because they bodyguard on what a two up, right two up right now. Yeah. Yeah So I mean only one in six wounds actually gets to him until you kill the temple guard Right And so like Yep, great. So now he's just super immortal Yeah, and he's 430 points like I just I don't understand how they like this one is a head scratcher to me This guy should be like 600 points Yeah, it's not enough. I mean the big thing he's not on a bell one anymore But I mean not even sure we're gonna have a bell one in 3.0. Anyway, unless they come out with a new kit Since it's yeah, no longer in production He yeah, so that was how most people used to play him Keep him in the backfield on a bell one with the ashlet bear and the bell one extending the range by what plus 12 So that would take celestial deliverance up to 22 20 22 yep And but yeah, so now it might be more of a crow crawl that that jack was just talking about and I played When my friends luckily dan dan ran him all the time with a crow crawl 20 Saurus guard just a big old death star in the middle of the board that and you know, it's tricky because he's got celestial deliverance He can multiple tap. He's got comet.  Yeah when he's just dropping mortal wounds like I'm surprised they didn't write an ability on here to call down a spaceship and have a spaceship just laser behind everything Sure. Why not? Yeah, so at any rate, uh, I yeah More on croak, please I'm hoping like I hope when we get the generals handbook in two three weeks Whatever that was July 3rd. How far away that is, right? I want to like flip I'm first first entry I read I'm flipping to seraphon and I want to see an entry that says like 580 or 600 if I do I'm gonna be like there's justice in this universe If not, I continue to believe there's not. Okay, so there we go Uh, scaven now we're here. Okay Let's talk about them rats How you called it? I don't think we were gonna get anything. No, I thought it was just gonna be battalions But no, it's more. Yeah, it is more Uh New allegiance ability you can hide weapon teams in units and they can pop out at the start of the shooting and shoot Even if they retreat or pop out at the end of charge and fight And I say I guess I've wrote that twice but they can shoot fight even if the unit retreated Cool. Great. Protect your weapon teams. I'm I'm I'm for that that's sort of, you know, how the weapon teams used to work And then how they worked in like in eighth edition and how they worked in aos one if you add the battalion And then they stopped working like that and they were just very easy to incidentally kill Right But no, I'm back.  That's what happens here, baby Uh, so I plan for 20 minutes on thankful. Oh, absolutely. Yes You like thankful if he's got a cp in his pocket. It's just unchargable by Oh my god. He is immune to horde. He would just like what do you got there 40 guys?  They're all dead You'd be like one guy kind of on fire like I made it All right, so anyways, um I want someone to put four doom flayers in a unit of 40 clan rats. Sure who has four doom flayers Even I only own one doom player Then no one has four doom player. Yeah, like it's got to exist. I thought about um Uh I thought about creating some new ones Like I want to like not because the fine cast one is pretty terrible like you could you could make your own pretty easy But I haven't gotten around to it yet Do it for the comedy game. Yeah, absolutely And then molder molder a clan that needed some love very underpowered um molder gains, uh one mutation molder mutation for a fighting beast Which is your rat ogres and your help at abominations And you gain an additional mutation for each master molder in your army You cannot take duplicates. You're ef