Today we'll only be doing the activities, but before that I want to run through and recap on what we did on Wednesday because the same concept we learned on Wednesday, we just need to know them today so that we can be able to answer the questions as we go along. And because also on Wednesday, we didn't finish everything. So we will start with the activities that we didn't do on Wednesday, and then we move on into the activities for today. So without wasting any time, on Wednesday we learned the basic concepts of the probabilities, we learned about the probability rules, what are the additional rules, your multiplication rule, and also we did the conditional probabilities. So today we're going to continue with conditional probabilities and do more activities from there and also look at the independence rule. So what we learned, we said probabilities, or a probability is a chance that some event will happen or not happen. And it's always between zero and one. And we said, if an event, we are certain that that event will okay, then it will have a probability of one. Like the sun will come up, it will always be 100% because the sun always comes up and it goes down. The impossible event will be the probability that that event will never happen. That probability of that event not happening, it's equals to zero. And we said also within an event, they are possible outcomes that happens and those possible outcomes, they create what we call an event and also eventually all possible outcome, they come from a sample space, which we will define also a little bit later. And we said with events, we can have a simple event, which means only one thing happening at the time. And we can also have a joint event when two things happen at the same time. Reading while eating, that's another. Watching TV while studying, that's another event because watching TV is that event that you're creating to watch and eating is another event that you are creating by eating. A compliment event is the other event that is not part of the original one. So it means a compliment of A will be any other event that happens and that does not include A. And a sample space is a collection of all possible outcomes or possible events that can happen.  And we also spoke about how we visualize the events and we said, organizing and visualizing the events, we can use a decision tree or a VIN diagram or started with the VIN diagram. And we said, within a VIN diagram, you are able to see your sample space. You are able to see your simple event and also your joint event and your compliment events because the compliment events will be those events that are not in those simple events that you would have already identified. Then within a decision tree, it's where you can make decisions as you creating events along the way. Then we also spoke about the contingency table, which is just a cross tab that we can use to visualize and be able to calculate the probabilities. And we said, within the event, you are able to calculate your simple event by using the total and also we can call the marginal probability or way you can calculate your marginal probabilities. And 1,200 will be your sample space and all the events within the table you call those the joint events because there are two things happening.  Then we said a simple probability we calculated from a simple probability we calculated from the simple event. And we said to calculate it in terms of a formula we say event satisfying that event or it's a number of outcomes that satisfy that event divided by the grand total which is your X divided by N and in terms of the example we use to calculate the promoted we said it will be 324 divided by 1,200 that will give us the probability of a simple event for promote it. Then we also discussed the joint event and we said joint event we calculated using the joint sorry, joint probability we calculated using the joint events. And also it's event satisfying or the number of outcomes satisfying that event which is the joint event divided by the grand total which is your sample space. And we looked at calculating the probability of a joint event between main and blue promoted. So we wanted to know the probability of main who are promoted which were 288 divided by 1,200 that gives us 0.24 those are your joint probability for main and promoted. Then we also spoke about marginal probabilities and we said with marginal probabilities are the same as your simple event but in this instance you will use the joint events to calculate the marginal probability. So for example, calculating the probability of A will use the joint event of A and B1 plus the probability of event A and B2 plus the probability of event A and B until BK. And that is how you calculate your marginal probability when you are given the joint event. Otherwise, if you're calculating it using the totals you will be calculating your simple event easier because then simple event is just the sum of all the joint events which is the total. So we looked at an example of calculating that if we want to calculate the probability of being promoted then it means if we do not have the total then we just add probability of main and promoted which is 288 plus women and women promoted which is 36. So it will be 288 plus 36 divided by 1,200 which will give us 0.37 which are the marginal probability. And if we have the total we could have just used 324 divided by 1,200 will give us the same answer. So that's how marginal probabilities work. Then we also spoke about other rules that you might have when you work with probabilities like mutually exclusive events. And we said mutually exclusive events are events that can happen at the same time or simultaneously. And we looked at events, also mutually exclusive events are events that cannot happen at the same time. If events cannot happen at the same time then they are mutually exclusive events. And we said for mutually exclusive events the probability of those event. So if we're looking at A and B the probability of these two events will be the probability of A and B will be equals to zero. And remember I said we can use the symbol N intersect or we can write it as the probability of A and B is equals to zero. They mean one and the same thing, intersect or N. Then we also spoke about, I just want to check if the videos are recording. And you are recording, okay. So these are a collect. So we also spoke about the collectively exhaustive events. We said the collectively exhaustive events are events that mix up all this event that are in the sample space. And they need to cover the entire sample space. And with that we said if we're looking at this example where we have A, B, C and D events we said all of them combined they are collectively exhaustive but they are not mutually exclusive because A can also occur in C. So not mutually exclusive or B can occur in C or we can also occur in D they are not mutually exclusive. But A and B on their own they are collectively exhaustive events on their own A and B because they make up all the days within 2014. And they are also mutually exclusive because a day on a weekday cannot be a day on a weekend. Then we defined the contingency table. I'm not going to draw too much on this because we know that the year we calculate this on the total we calculate simple probability within the table we calculate the joint probability from those simple. And we know that the sum of all the values or the probability should be equals to one. And this was just to recap on what we spoke about. We said all probabilities needs to be between zero and one if you get a value outside of zero which is minus or you get a value that is bigger than one it means you did something wrong with your calculation for the probability. Probabilities should just be between zero and one. And we said also a probability we can represent it in terms of the decimal but we can represent it in terms of the proportion which is a percentage format which then we take that relative frequency and multiply it by a hundred to get it to a percentage then be one and the same. So zero will be zero percent and one will be hundred percent otherwise this is zero and this is one or if it's 50% then it will be zero comma five. And we said also the sum of all probabilities is equals to one and if that is the case then a compliment event if we need to find the probability of an A or a probability of a compliment event it will be one minus the probability of an other event since the sum of all probabilities are equals to one. And we looked at this example for the conditional probability because yeah they wanted to find the probability of not drain and we know that that will be one minus the probability of ray and we said that is one minus zero comma seven and that is zero comma three and that's how you calculate your compliment event. Then we also moved on and looked at the addition which is the probability of something or another happening. So we looked at the probability of A or B happening and that will be given by the probability of A plus the probability of B minus the probability of A and B minus the probability of a joint probability and remember this A and B it does not mean you're going to take A and B and then add the probability of B it does not mean that. That is a joint probability which is not the same as A which is not the same as B is the joint probability of A and B. And we said also if and only if an A and B are mutually expressive then the probability of A and B which is that probability will be equals to zero and then when that is equals to zero then the probability of A or B will be equals to the probability of A plus B and this is only if and only if event A and B are mutually exclusive. If those two events are mutually exclusive then the probability of A or B will be equals to the probability of A plus the probability of B. We also went on and looked at this activity I'm just gonna skip through it and then we looked at conditional probability and we said a conditional probability is the probability of one event happening given that another event has already occurred or has already happened. And that is given by the probability of A given B it's given by the probability of A and B happening divide by the probability of B we always divide by the probability of the given or alternatively we can swap them around and find the probability of B given A already occurred and that will be the probability of the joint event between A and B divide by the probability of A and that is conditional probabilities. We looked at this and we also looked at an example and we said sometimes if they give you the probabilities themselves because previously we were working with events and remember that events are whole numbers like five, 10, 15, 20, 100 when you add them they will not give you a decimal but they give you a, sorry when you add them all of them together they should be equals to one whereas with events they are like one, two, three, four, five, six when you add them they give you a bigger number it's just events. So probabilities or proportions like in this instance they give us the proportions of 27% have been promoted 80% have are main so it means they already calculated those probabilities all you just need to know is how to place them in order for you to answer some of the questions that you are given. So for example when they say it's 27% have been promoted then it means regardless of whether they are main or women so we will put it under the total because it is all of them who were promoted with 27% of those and 80% are main so it regardless of whether those people are promoted or not as long as they are main 80% of them were main we put it under main and 24% are both main and promoted so then it means that there's a joint probabilities of main and promoted therefore we put it under and remembering about probabilities knowing that the sum of all probabilities is equals to one therefore it means the grand total or your sample space will be equals to the probability of a sample space will be equals to one and then I can complete the entire table I can find the value for not promoted I can find the value for women I can find the value of not promoted women promoted and main not promoted because to get this value I just subtract 0.27 minus 0.24 will give me main women and one minus 0.27 will give me not promoted so just do those sub directions of the values and then the whole table is complete and then you are able to answer all the other questions that follows. So if we wanted to calculate the probability of A given B but in this instance we want to calculate the probability of main given that they have been promoted so we need to calculate the probability of main given that they have been promoted therefore we're going to use the probability of A and B which is the joint probability so we're going to use the joint probability of main promoted and dividing by the probability of a given, which is the probability of B. So we're going to find the probability of B in this instance is promoted. Therefore, we're going to find the probability of promoted. So we're going to take the probability of main and promoted, which is zero comma two four divided by the probability of promoted, which is zero comma two seven and divide each other. And then we get zero comma eight nine. And that is conditional probabilities. And you can calculate the other conditional probabilities. Now, we also spoke about the multiplication rule and beside the multiplication rule called main all comes from the conditional probability. And this is if you are given the probability of A given B and the probability of B. And they're asking you to find the probability of A and B, which is the joint probability. Then it means you need to apply the conditional probability because we know that the probability of A given B, if they give you that, and they ask you to find the probability of A and B. And this is what you are not given, not given. So you need to calculate that. But they give you the probability of B. Therefore, we can find the probability of A and B by just saying the probability of A given B times, oh, sorry, times the probability of B by removing the probability of B this side when we bring it to the right hand or to the left hand side, we're going to multiply and this side you will be left with the probability of A and B. And that is the multiplication rule. So, and that gives you the probability of A and B is equals to the probability of A given B divided by, or multiplied by the probability of B. And if I take the probability of B underneath the probability or divided by the probability of A and B, you will see that we end up with the conditional probability. However, if in the question they say, even A and B are independent, only if A and B are independent, then the probability of A given B will be given by the probability of A. If and only if even A and B are independent, then the conditional probability of A given B will be given by the probability of A because then it means B does not have any bearing on what's happening or what happens to A. So then those will be equal. And if so, then the probability of A and B will be given by the probability of A because then the given gets replaced by the probability of A multiplied by the probability of B. This only occurs if and only if A and B are independent. So if in the question they're asking you, calculate the probability of A and B and they gave you the contingency table and they never said anything about A and B being independent, you must remember that this is X divided by N. Number satisfying the joint event divided by N. In case they say A and B are independent, then the joint probability of A and B will be given by the probability of A multiplied by the probability of B, only for independent event. Let's look at this example. Probability of B is equals to 0,2 and the probability of A complement is 0,7 and the probability of A given B is 0,9. Find the probability of B given A. At some point, some people might say, oh, it's easy. This is the probability of B given A and this is the probability of A given B. Maybe we can swap this around and say it's the same thing. It's not. Finding the probability of B given A is given by the probability of A and B divided by the probability of A. Now, if those are the things that we need to answer this question, we need to go back to our statement and ask ourselves questions. What is it that we are given here? We are given the probability of A and B? No, we are not. We do not have that. Are we given the probability of A? No, we do not have that. But we are given that probability. So it's easy for us to find the probability of A because the probability of A is one minus the probability of A complement. And since that is the probability of A complement is 0,7, therefore, this will be 0,3. So I have that answer. But I do not have the probability of A and B and I cannot use, they never told me here that A and B are independent. So it means probability of A and B should be equals to X divided by A. That's what I need to use. But I'm not given any X. However, I am given this probability. So I'm given the probability of A given B. I know that that is equals to 0.9, but it does not help me at this point because if I'm given the probability of A given B, I can write the formula as said, this 0.9, they found it by using A and B divided by the probability of the given, which is B. So since they found it using this formula, I can then come back and say, do I have the probability of B? Yes, I do have. Do I have the probability of A given B? Yes, I have. So I can substitute the values. Substituting 0.9 is equals to the probability of A and B divided by, I have the probability of B, which is 0.2, 0.2. Then I can use my multiplication rule because this is 0.2 multiplied by 0.9 multiplied by 0.2 is equals to the probability of A and B. And therefore my probability of A and B will be equals to 0.9 multiplied by 0.2, which is 0.18, 0.180. So I have now my probability of A and B. So I can go back to my formula. I know that I needed to find the probability of B given A, which is equals to the probability of A and B divided by the probability of B. Finding this is easy. Now, I have my probability of A and B, which is 0.18 divided by my probability of B, which is 0.2. And that gives me 0.8 divided by 0.2, which gives me 0.9. And that's how you find the probability of A given B. Oh, B given A. Sorry, my question. Just quickly ask. Is it not divided by the probability of A? Oh, divided by the probability of A. Yes, sorry, you are right. I divided the wrong day. Sorry. It's divided by the probability of A and we did find the probability of A is 0.3. Thank you very much for picking that one up. So it's 0.18 divided by 0.3. Yes, you're right. It's 0.6. Thank you. And that's how you will find that, oh, sorry, because I had a couple of questions. And that will be how you answer that question. So remember all these venues that you have. So we'll go to the next section and do the independence. So two events are independent, if and only if. And when do we use this? Sometimes in the question, they will give you statements and ask you to verify whether the statements are correct or incorrect and they say even A and B are independent. You need to remember these formulas. You need to remember this to say, how do I test that even A and even B are independent? You can only test them by applying this. The probability of a conditional probability of A given B is equals to the probability of A. So if the conditional probability of A given B is equals to the probability of A, then it means your two events are independent. Or if the probability of B given A is equals to the probability of B, then those two events are independent. So you will use this formula to test whether they are independent or not. You will use this formula if and only if when you calculate the conditional probability and you are using the multiplication rule and they told you that even A and B are independent, then you use the conditional probability. You will say the probability of A and B is equals to the probability of A times the probability of B because of event A and B being independent. But you can also use these two equations to test the independence of event A and B. Okay, so let's look at this example. We calculated all the values. So we know that the probability of A is 0.3. We know that the probability of A and B is 0.18 and we know that the probability of B given A is equals to 0.6, that we know now. Question number one, it says are event A and B independent? So you need to go back and think about that how do I answer this question? We can answer it two ways or one way or once. We can say, if we look at the probability of B given A, is it equals to the probability of A? Or you can say probability of A given B, is it equals to the probability of B? If they are equal, oh, sorry, I'm doing it all wrong. It must be the other way because for independence, irregardless of whether A was given, has no bearing on B. I had it all right the whole time and then I changed it. So this is B and this is A, so sorry, my bad. So for independence, the probability of B given A should be equals to the probability of B or the probability of A given B should be equals to the probability of A. So we already have the answers here. So we can just check. We can check the first one. What is the probability of B given A? The probability of B given A is 0,6. Is it equals to the probability of B? What is my probability of B is 0,2. Are they equal? They are not. And then that is your answer. Even A and B are not independent because the probability of B given A is not equals to the probability of B. You can do the same with the probability of A given B because you don't have, in the exam you don't have to do two of them. You can choose one of them. So, but you will get the same answer. So let's say with this one we say the probability of A given B, so we know that there is 0,9. It needs to be equals to the probability of A and our probability of A is 0,3. 0,3, they are not equal. Therefore it means the two events are not independent. Are event A and B independent? No, that is the answer. No, they are not independent. Are event A and B mutually exclusive? How do I know that they are mutually exclusive? Probability of A and B should be equals to 0. Is the probability of A and B equals to 0? The probability of A and from my answers, the probability of A and B is not equals to 0 because it is equals to, oh, sorry. You can say it is equals to 0,18. Therefore it is not equals to 0. Therefore, no, it's not mutually exclusive. And that is how you test whether statements that you are given are mutually exclusive or they are independent by using the formulas that you know. Okay, and that concludes what we were supposed to cover on Saturday and with that we can move on into the activities for today. Any question? Any questions? Speak now. When we do the activities, I will give you all the formulas because I will understand that at this point you are not familiar with all the formulas. So I will give you the formulas, but you need to work things out as well. And sometimes I will not give you all the formulas. So you will need to derive some of the formulas from the one, like the multiplication rule. So I'll just give you the conditional probability formula and you will need to do the other. For example, the additional rule where we look at the probability of A or B, if events are mutually exclusive, I'm not gonna give you the mutually exclusive event probability formula, I will only give you one. So you need to make up your mind and know all your probability concepts so that you know that for mutually exclusive you have to drop the A probability of A or B. Okay, so if there are no questions with that regard, then let us go into activities. I just want to share my screen, not the... So are we ready? We're going to start. Okay, exercise number one. Autism South Africa collected the following information on specialist consulting with children living with autism, ASD. The table below shows the number of boys and girls consulting different specialists. What is the probability that at a random chosen or that a randomly chosen child who consulted a neuropsychologist is a boy? Which means calculate the probability of neuropsychologist and a boy. So are we given a table? Before we even start answering the question, let's first complete the entire table. So first calculate all the values that are given. So I'm only going to do this one activity with you once and then I expect you to do... There will be questions relating to the same table going forward. So we're going to use the same table again and again and again and again so that we get used to the activities. So 90 plus 30, it's 120. So you can do the calculations with me and answer the questions. 45 plus 15. Oh, sorry. It's 60. Yes. So you need to write this table somewhere because you're going to use it in all the activities and it looks like this. It's not completed for all the questions as well. So you need to quickly write this table somewhere with all the values completed because when I move to the next slide, the values that we are putting here will disappear. And then now I can calculate this value here as well which is 55, by saying 55 minus those two values minus 30, minus 15. That's 10. Because if I add all of them, it should give me 55 because that is the total. And that's 10 and then 30 plus 10 is 40. I can also add all the values. Since they didn't tell us how many they are so it's 120 plus 60 plus 40 equals to 220. And this also, we can add them or I can just say 220 minus 55 or I could say 90 plus 45 plus 30. It should give me the same answer which is 165. Even if I say 220 minus 55, I should get 165. So do you have the table? Remember you didn't? Not yet. Okay. Not yet. Yes. Now, we can go and answer this question. Remember the question we were asked was calculate the probability that a boy and neuropsychologist or neuropsychologist and a boy. So there is neuropsychologist and there is the boy. So we know that the probability of A, the formula that we know is the probability of A and B is equals to X divided by N. Number satisfying the joint event divided by N. Are we done? Should be quick. If you can. Okay. So what will be the probability? 0,5. And boy, number satisfying the event. Neuropsychologist and a boy is 45 divided by the total which is 220. Then your answer is 0,5. 2,05. 0,5. 2,05. Which means our correct answer is option five. That was easy. Remember we can also use the checks to post. So let me see, I didn't open my check function. I'm sorry about that. That is why I didn't know whether you guys have answered the question or not. Remember, let's use the check function as well while we're busy with the activities. Okay. Next second question, like I said, we're going to be using the same table.  The probability that NP or a boy, we know that the probability of A or B is equals to the probability of A plus the probability of B minus the probability of A, B, not all. So you can also do the same with your probability of NP or boy. You can complete the equation. Fiso has answered others. Do you agree with what he has? You can like his answer or post a new other answer that is different from his. Are you done? Are you lost? Talk to me. Hello, lost. So let me give you the formula. If you look at this formula that I gave you because you will get the same formulas in your exams as well. And this are the formulas that you need to familiarize yourself. So take the same question and rewrite it the same way as you see this. So we know that A or B and I wrote it here. So if I rewrite it as NP or B, I know that I need to write the probability of A. So which means is the probability of the first one which is NP. So it will be the probability of NP irregardless of whether he's a boy or a girl plus the probability of B because there is all B. So here I also have a B. So it will be plus the probability of a boy minus the joint probability of A and B minus the probability of NP and a boy. And a boy. So I know this is a joint probability. This is simple probability, simple probability. So because here we are given events. Always remember events, the probability of A will always be given by X divided by N which is the observation satisfying that event divided by how many there are. For a joint event probability of A and B always is going to be given by the event satisfying a joint event divided by the total sample space. So what is the probability of neuropsychologist? How many events satisfy neuropsychologist? 45. Nope. 60. It's 60 and we also divide by the total sample space which is 220. Plus we also have a simple event here. How many are boys? 165. It will be 165 divided by 200 and 20. Minus the joint event of neuropsychology and a boy will be 45 over 220. Then for this we can write it as 60 plus 165 minus 45. Divide by 200 in tweet. And when you can't play that, what do you get? 60 plus 165. 165 is 225 minus 45. You get 180 divide by 220. The answer you get is.<PHONE_NUMBER>8181. Which then it means the answer is those who are lost she got it. She no way she made a mistake. So guys, when I give you an activity and you feel that you don't know how to answer the question, don't wait until I ask. Just ask say, I am lost. Repeat, help me, just ask. Let's look at the next example, or exercise. Same question. What is the probability that a randomly chosen child is a boy given that he has consulted a neuropsychologist? The formula that we know about conditional probability because we are told given. So we know that the probability of a given b is equals to the probability of a and b divided by the probability of the given, which is the probability of b. So knowing this formula, try and rewrite your formula based on this. The probability of a, probability of a boy given b, which is neuropsychologist. And then complete the whole equation. The probability of a boy given, they visited a neuropsychologist, or they consulted with a neuropsychologist. And remember also, the probability of a and b is given by x divided by n. The probability of b is given by event satisfying, the event divided by that. So you need to always remember that, that you always need to divide by your n. And I think for those who never did meet at high school and you've never learned about divisions, because you will get two fractions, one for the probability of a and b because it's s divided by n divided by the probability of b, which is x divided by n. So you will have two fractions. So you need to always remember for a division, we say kcf. Keep the first fraction, change the sign to a multiplication, and flip the second fraction. So if I have 3 divided by 4 divided by 5 divided by 8, those are two fractions. kcf says I must keep the first, which is 3 divided by 4. I must change my division to a multiplication, and then I must flip. So the value that is at the bottom must come to the top. And the value at the top must come to the bottom. So then it means it's 8 divided by 5. And that is what you're going to do when you answer this question. And with multiplication, we know that we can simplify already, or we can multiply what is at the top with what is at the top and multiply the bottom with the bottom, and then find the answer. So you're going to get that. And that is the only hint I can give you right now, especially for those who, for the first time. I'm sorry. Are we happy now? Fiso has posted that, and Lungile has posted that. I'm not sure if Lungile is posting the previous, or is it for this one. But anyway, we have two answers. Let's see, we have two answers. Darabo also posted the same as Fiso. Are we happy? OK, let's answer the question. The probability of B given N is given by, or B given Np will be given by the joint probability of both, which is the probability of boy and neuropsychologist divided by the probability of neuropsychologist. Now, the joint probability for neuro, boy and neuropsychologist is 45 divided by 220. 45, I don't know what my pen is writing right now. 45 divided by 220 divided by, because I need to remember that there is a division. The probability of neuropsychologist irregardless is 60 divided by 220. Applying the KCF methodology, we keep 45 divided by 220. We change the sign from a division to a multiplication. We flip, 220 comes to the top, and 60 comes to the bottom. In terms of math, we can simplify. In terms of math, we can simplify. 220, then cancel out. And then we are left with 45. So because this will be one there and one there. So 45 times 1 will be 45 divided by 1 times 60 is 60. Which then gives us 45 divided by 60 is 0,75. And if I look at that, that will be number 3. Esfiso and Karabukorit. Happiness, are we happy? Miss Liz. Yes. So when you calculate this, do you say, because it says boy given, is that how you write it? Then that's how you will calculate it. If it's chopped around, it means you're looking for the boy instead of the neuropsychologist. So if the question was, is the boy consulted a neuropsychologist given that he's a boy?  So this given tells you when to put the line. So this site is the boy and that site is neuropsychologist. Sometimes they might not ask the question in that manner. They might say, what is the probability that a chosen child, given that he consulted a neuropsychologist, is a boy? So you must read your questions carefully. Given that he consulted a neuropsychologist and is a boy, you will need to know that the given part goes with the neuropsychologist. So you must read carefully. OK, so moving on to more exercise. Same. Now we have different statements that we need to verify if those questions are correct. So we're going to work together now. You must unmute your mics because we need to go statement by statement by statement by statement by statement so that you know how to answer this question. And if you know the formula by now, when we answer the question, I want you to tell me what the formula looks like and then how do we calculate it? Don't take shortcuts. Don't give me, yes, this is correct. That is incorrect. I want to make sure that you practice as much as possible so that you know how to answer the questions, even if we're not looking at the same question. OK, so completing the whole table again, 120, 60, 40, and 220, and 10, and 165. So now, number one, how do we answer this? We're looking for the incorrect statement. Probability of a boy is x divided by n. That is 165 divided by 220. And it's 175. And is it the same? Is it correct? 175. This is 175. Therefore, this is correct. Moving on to the next one, the probability of boy or a girl, I will write the formula, which is the probability of boy plus the probability of girl minus the probability of boy and girl. So how do we find the probability of a boy? This is 165, the total for boys. OK, it will be 165 divided by 220. Probability of a girl? 154 divided by 260. When probability of a girl and a boy? Zero. Which will be zero, because a boy and a girl cannot happen at the same time. Therefore, they are mutually at the same time. Yes. So calculating the probability of a boy and a girl, boy or girl, it's equals to one. Because 165 plus 55 is 220 divided by 220 will give us a one. So therefore, it means that is correct. Calculate the probability of a girl or speech therapist. So yeah, we need to find the probability of a girl plus the probability of speech therapist minus the joint probability, probability of a girl and speech therapist. And that will be given by, let me remove this. I'm going to use the same formula. That is given by girl, speech therapist, and girl, and speech therapist. What is the probability of a girl? How do we calculate this?  Probability of speech therapist. 120. 120. 120. Right. Probability of a girl and speech therapist. 31 to 20. And calculate that. What is the answer? 0.659. I also put this point. Pardon? 0.659. 0.659. Therefore, that is the incorrect one. Calculate the probability of speech therapist. It's 120 divided by 220. And it's the same. It's correct. So that is correct. Calculate the probability of speech therapist or neuropsychologist. Which is given by the probability of speech therapist plus the probability of neuropsychologist minus the probability of speech therapist and neuropsychologist. And decide to do B0 because they cannot happen at the same time. As long as they fall within the same category, they can never happen at the same time. So they are mutually exclusive. The speech therapist, we already calculated it before and we found that it's 0.545. Sorry for the speech therapist and for the neuropsychologist. We calculated it so many times before. It's 0.272. 0.2. It's 45 divided. Sorry, neuropsychologist is 60. So it's 60 divided by 220. Which is 0.273. So it is 0.545 plus 0.273 gives you 0.818181. Is that correct? 0.8181. Next, which one of the following statement is incorrect? So you need to do the probability of speech therapy and a boy because his joint probability is just X over N. Sorry before you continue. Please fill the contingency table. Sorry, mine is on another page now. Sorry. I told you to write this some way. We're going to use it so often. Okay. 10 and 165. Okay. So now let's answer the question. S T and a boy. It's 90 divided by 220. 90 divided by 220. Do we get the same? Yes. Correct. Probability of a girl and a P psychiatrist and a girl. 10 divided by 220. Yes. Do we get the same? Yes. Now we go into the probability of giving. So we need to go and find the probability of S T given boy, which is the probability of S T and a boy divided by the probability of a boy. So you can go and calculate the probability of S T and a boy. We already have that. You said that is correct. You can go and calculate the probability of a boy. So calculate the probability of a boy, which is 160 divided by 220. Isn't it 165? Oh, 165. Yes. 165 divided by 220. 0.75. 0.75. We had this some way. We didn't even have to do that. So since I have the probabilities, I can just use the probabilities. So the probability 0.409 divided by 0.75. And that should give me the probability of S T and a boy. It's 0.545. Which is correct. Now calculate the probability of NP and a girl given NP. Given that is a girl, which is NP and a girl and the probability of a girl. So it means we need to go and find the probability of a girl. It's 15 divided by 220. 155 divided by 220. 0.25. We need probability of NP. So you can go and find the probability of NP and a girl. And that is 15 divided by 220. 0.068. Which is 0.068. Now we can substitute the probabilities onto here. And that will give 0.068 divided by the probability of a girl. 0.25. And the answer is 0.273. 0.273. And that is not the right answer. It gives us the probability of neuropsychologist and a girl. We can do the last one. Now with the last one they're asking us to where is that the probability of a boy and probability of neuropsychologist given that is a boy. Is it the same as the probability of neuropsychologist given that is a girl and is it the same as the probability of neuropsychologist? So we did find the probability of a girl and we said is 0.273. Did we calculate the probability of neuropsychologist? We did calculate that and we found that it was 0.273. 0.273. Did we calculate the probability of neuropsychologist and a boy given that is a boy? We didn't calculate that unless it was calculated previously. Nope, we didn't. So we need to calculate that. The probability of neuropsychologist given that is a boy. We calculated the probability of a boy given neuropsychologist not the probability of neuropsychologist given that is a boy. So that is the probability of neuropsychologist and a boy divided by the probability of a boy. So we can go and calculate the probability of neuropsychologist and a boy which is 45 divided by 0.220 which is 0. 0.205 divided by the probability of a boy we did calculate it earlier which is 165 divided by 220. We found that was 0.75. The answer is 0.273. The answer is 0.273. Therefore, it means they are equal. So it is correct and that's how you determine whether the statement is correct or incorrect. So we know that for us the incorrect one. Happiness, you can take three minutes break. I need to go and get water. Those who wants to continue working, I'm going to go to the next question. You can work it out and see if you are able to make sense out of it and then we'll come back and discuss it just now. Take the three minutes break and then we'll do this. Okay, are you all back? Hello, did I mute myself? Okay, we're back. One of the questions was asked on Wednesday was around how many questions are like calculations and how many are like theory? So with probabilities, there are not so much in terms of theory, you just need to know certain concepts as well and answer them. So like this is one of the example where I might say theory comes into play but you will still also need to do some little bit of calculations because they're asking you to test whether things are independent or are they mutually exclusive? So like we did with the activity when we were finishing off with the recapping, we looked at two questions where we needed to look at that. When it comes to this basic psychology, basic probability as well, sometimes the questions they might ask you in this format, like already in a formula for format with the answers, sometimes they might ask you in a sentence format and you need to make sense out of those sentences in order for you to answer the question. So yeah, using the same information we need to find which one of these statements is correct or is incorrect. Remember for independence, we use the conditional probability. We need to test whether the conditional probability of B remember that we need to test the conditional probability of A given B whether it's the same as the probability of A in this instance. So looking at this three statements, the first one says independent, independent, and this one says dependent. So if they are not equal then we say they are dependent on each other. But if they are equal then we say they are independent. So let's check this three statement. So we already did calculate previously remember the answers some of them are here. We calculated the probability of neuropsychology given that is a boy and calculated neuropsychology is given that is a girl things like that. So these questions as well they will be asking those. So they're asking if neuropsychology and a boy are independent. So therefore they're asking us if the probability it will get less of how you write it because they just want to know if event A and B are independent. So here we can say the probability of neuropsychologist given that is a boy we want to test if this is equals to the probability of neuropsychologist. That's all what we want to do with line number one. So if we go back to the question that we answered previously because we already have the answers we don't have to go back and repeat all of them. So we know that the probability probability of neuropsychologist given that is a boy we say 0. 0. 0.733 and the probability of neuropsychologist given that is a girl is given by 0.273 that's what we did there. Remember this one was wrong. And then we also find that the probability of neuropsychologist we said it is 0.273 we already calculated all these values as well so I'm just going to go to the question and answer it. So the first one neuropsychology and a boy we said it is 0.273 remember that 0.273 probability of neuropsychologist 0.273 they are equal therefore that is the correct statement. The next question is asking event neuropsychology and a girl are independent so we do the same we can do the same with the next one. So we need to find that the probability of neuropsychologist given that is a girl should be giving us the probability of neuropsychologist they should be equal. We did calculate the probability of neuropsychologist given that is a girl we found that is equal to 0.273 and we said the probability of neuropsychologist is to 0.273 and that's what we did in the previous one. We did calculate them here neuropsychologist given that is a girl we said is the same as that. So we are just validating the question here so it's independent do you want to ask a question? Yes I'm lost. Why are you lost? Where are you lost? I'm lost sir. Village of neuropsychologist with me. Let's go back to this question that we did previously remember we did this question. Yes it's not 0.273 we calculated the probability not end you must remember this is not end if they're given. We calculated that we did this so we said it's correct here because we calculated the probability of neuropsychologist given that is a boy we said it's 0.273 I'm fine now. We calculated this neuropsychologist given that is a girl we said it is this if we didn't calculate all these values we could be calculating them again using the formula there we could have been doing this but we already have the answers from the previous question that we answered so we're using those answers to validate some of the statements and that's all what I'm doing right now. So we have that neuropsychologist is the same as neuropsychologist given that is a boy they are equal so therefore that statement is correct and also the second statement is correct because neuropsychologist is the same as the neuropsychologist given that is a girl they give us the same now the third statement it says event psychiatrist and a boy are dependent so therefore they are saying to us in this we need to test that the probability of psychiatrist which is P given that is the same as the problem is not the same as the probability of a psychiatrist so since we didn't calculate any of these views we need to go and calculate them so let me just double check we calculated probability of STST so I'm just going to go back so we never calculated psychiatrist on its own so let's go ahead and do this calculation so the first one I'm going to remove all this because we don't need them anymore now we're done with them so we're going to start with the first site which is the probability of psychiatrist given that is a boy it's given by the probability of psychiatrist and a boy divided by the probability of a boy so we know what the probability of a boy is it's 0.75 but we don't know what the probability of psychiatrist is so this is 0.75 from the previous exercises that we did we did calculate the probability of a boy as 0.75 now let's calculate the probability of a psychiatrist and a boy we did calculate that so I don't have to go no we didn't we did and again so we need to calculate psychiatrist and a boy so which is p and a b which is 30 so the probability of p and a b is 30 divided by 220 which is 30 divided by 220 do you get the same? 0.136 is 0.136 so now divide that divide by 0.75 what do you get? 0.181 do you get that? 0.181 0.181 0.18 I'm getting 182 okay so now I know what this probability of the probability of b given p given b is I need to find the probability of p so the probability of p it's given by x divided by n which the probability of p is 40 so it will be 40 divided by 220 and what do you get? 0.181 do you get that or which is 82 0.182 do you also get the same? yes therefore 0.182 0.182 is equal to 0.182 therefore it means they are not dependent but they are independent so then this is incorrect so you just need to check the statement so if they are equal they should be independent if they are not equal then they will be independent so because they are equal then they are independent not dependent statement number four says ASD is more common in boys than in girls so this is just a general statement so remember this are the number of boys and girls that consulted but they have ASD so this says it's more common in boys than in girls therefore it means boys they should be more boys than girls so if I look at this there are more boys so yes that is correct so we know that the first one was also correct the last one it says the speech therapist and psychiatrist are mutually exclusive speech therapist and psychiatrist if they are in the same category they cannot happen at the same time therefore this is correct because they are in the same category so they are mutually exclusive which is correct and that's how you validate the statements so you will have to go through each and every one of them do some calculations if you have to or use the knowledge that you know in order to make that decision like with the last statement any question then we move to the next exercise exercise seven state let X represent an event that someone lives with ASD it represents someone lives with ASD B represent that someone does not live with ASD so A is a complement of B or B is a complement of A in this instance which of the following statement is correct so number one it says the probability of A and B is the same as the probability of A times the probability of B is that statement correct so why that one who said no why are you saying it's not correct looks like you are adding them together you need to be adding them together but here we came for the joint probability of A and B where they both meet so is A this question you need to ask yourself the following is A and B independent the question is not saying are they equal is A and B equal the question here is A and B independent because if they are independent then this statement will be correct therefore it means the probability of A given B should be the same as the probability of A and because we are not given as many information for us to make that decision we cannot assume statement one is correct at this point because how will I know that A and B are independent if I cannot find the probability that A given B is the same as the probability of A at this point we can leave it as a question mark or we can make a decision based on that based on the probability of A being the same as the probability of A so if we look at number two it says the probability of A given B is equals to the probability of A which is the statement that I just said the question we need to always ask ourselves is A and B independent does event A has any bearing on what happens to event B that's all what you need to be there's a person who living with disability have any influence on what the person has on the person having ASD person with ASD does that person has an influence on what happens to the person who does not have an ASD person and since that is not independent then also B number two as well cannot be correct it says the probability of B is not equals to the probability of A complement we have the probability of A and we also have the probability of B and we know that the probability of A is a complement of the probability of B therefore it means A can be the complement of we can write it as we can write B as the probability of A complement B B is a complement of A because A and B picks up the whole sample space I think someone is making noise I think someone is making noise now it's time to hear you I'm sure I will move myself with the neighbors okay remember we have A and B they all make up the sample space and I said the probability of A is a complement of B because the sum of all makes the sample space so B is a complement of A so we can also write it as the same S B is the complement of A but B is not equals to A but it's a complement of A complement of A as A to the power of C remember when we were doing the complement I said we can write the complement with a C at the top or we can write the complement with a B and we know that the sum of the probability of A plus the probability of B should be equals to what which is the same as the probability of A the complement which is B which is A complement will be the same as one we can write B as A complement because B is the complement of A and yeah it says it's not so it also means that is not correct so we know that all those three statements are incorrect because A is not independent of B and B is not independent of A and we know that B is the complement of A so this statement says they are not so we cannot assume that I'm going to jump all of them and go to five based on those three statements at the top that I said they are not correct therefore it means even A and B are not independent is even A and B mutually exclusive yes they are mutually exclusive because everyone living with ASD cannot be also living without ASD you can either be one or the other therefore only option four is the correct one you cannot be living with ASD and not be living with ASD so you have to be one or the other your coin cannot be ahead in a tail at the same time it can be one or the other it can only land on one or the other either it lands on a head or it lands on a tail it can never have two on one the same you can never be living with ASD and not be living with ASD so you are A and B in this instance they are mutually exclusive and that's how you answer the questions you're going to have to interrogate the understanding of everything that you've learned in the basic psychology or in the basic probability I know I keep on saying psychology because we're talking about psychiatrist and all that okay let's look at another example we only have seven minutes left so let A represent that someone lives with disability or ASD and B represent that someone does not live with ASD suppose that the probability of A is 0.96 and the probability of B is equals to 0.04 find the probability of A or B remember what we discussed previously there you need to take that into consideration when you answer this question so you have the probability of A or B as your formula and we know that there is the probability of A minus the probability of A and B answer the question the answer is 3 why is the answer 3 the probability of A is 0.96 and the probability of A is 0.04 and A or B is 0 because there are mutually exclusive events and therefore the probability of A plus the probability of B is equals to 1 so if we didn't do exercise 7 before you will still when you come to this question you will still need to ask yourself the same question is A and B mutually exclusive am I able to calculate the probability of A plus the probability of B or the probability of A and B you cannot from the statement that they have given you as well okay let's see if we can in the next 4 minutes fit in another long question which one of the following statement is incorrect with regards to the probabilities if an event has a probability of 0.25 then that event has a 25% chance of occurring is that statement correct a statement is correct because they just take that and convert it into propositions number 2 a probability is a chance of an event not occurring that doesn't sound right that is incorrect that is incorrect when 2 events are mutually no sorry yes that is incorrect when 2 events are mutually exclusive they cannot occur together is that correct correct yes that is correct when 2 events are independent they can occur together but they do not influence each other actually number 2 is correct remember is a chance of an event happening or not happening because probability either an event can happen or an event cannot happen if an event cannot happen if it's an uncertain event which cannot not happen we call that an uncertain event which has a probability of 0 and if an event is happening then that we call it a certain event and it can have a probability of 1 so this question is asking so this one this next one it says when 2 events are independent oh no oh no I am lying to you actually this is not correct because probability is a chance of an event happening whether it's not happening or not happening but it's a chance of an event happening this next question is asking when 2 events are independent they can occur together but they do not influence each other of course 2 events can happen together and not have an influence on the other and we say they are independent so remember when we do the probability of A and B those 2 events are happening at the same time but we know that the probability of the joint event we know that B has bearing on what happens to A because we know that we replace that probability of A with the original conditional probability as we know it it would have been the probability of A and B will be given by the probability oh sorry will be given by the probability of A given B times the probability of B since B does not have any bearing on A does not influence A therefore for independence we say the probability of A times the probability of B but they can still happen at the same time and that is independent event so this statement is correct statement number 5 it says the intersections of 2 A and B is denoted by A and B is that correct yes that's correct and that is correct so likewise you have activities 10 up until I think 20 10 up until 19 you can work through that if you have any questions you can ask on WhatsApp or on my UNISA or even here on MST so there are plenty of activities that you can do to get used to before you start answering your assignment questions and with that it is 2 o'clock and that tells me it's time to recap and check it and close the session thank you for being part of the sessions today if you have any question or comment feel free to ask now so you have from question number 11 up until question number 19 to do on your own and ask if you have any challenges otherwise then I will see you on Wednesday when we do study unit 5 which is discrete probabilities which also we


Good evening, everyone. I'm unsure if Chair Rogers was not going to be present this evening. Magali, were you notified by her at all? I was not. So I'm thinking she might be running a little tiny bit late. Okay, thank you. It does look like Vice Mayor Alvarez may have had a disconnection at one point. So let's see if he's able to join back on as well. Is in the waiting room. Thank you. I just received a message from Chair Rogers and she's having a little bit of a technical issue with her laptop syncing with the link. We can hold until she joins. I'm happy to be in contact with Chair Rogers. I was actually on the phone with her. Invite. I believe the issue was that her devices were not connecting. Oh, okay. Welcome, Chair Rogers. Hoping we can get that audio and video up here momentarily. Vice Mayor? Yes, just yes, Chair. Can you please start the meeting while I'm handling the technical difficulties? I can absolutely do that for you. Thank you. Thank you. With that said, I believe the time is now 6.07. And let's go ahead and commence the meeting. I will need to open up my laptop for the minutes. We'll start with roll call first. Very well, appreciate that. Council Member McDonald here. Vice Mayor Alvarez. President. Chair Rogers. President. Thank you. Let the record show that all members are present. I don't have it, but I believe we're going to go ahead and pass for public comment. Oh, thank you. There are no hands raised for public comment. Now if we can go to our scheduled items. Well, what happened to the minutes? I can't hear you. We have to approve the minutes, correct? Yeah. Okay. If we can approve the minutes from our last meeting. I'll need to abstain from that since I wasn't there. So it would just be a vote of you and Eddie confirming the minutes if they're approved as printed. No, I did have a correction. The correction would be that Chris Rogers was not the chair and he did not call the meeting to order. Does it say chair Rogers or Chris Rogers? I thought it said Chris Rogers, but of course I can't get any of it up right now. Look for you. I see chair, chair Rogers. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it said Chris. No, my dyslexia put Chris there first too, but then I knew you'd be in violation of the Brown Act if all of us were here. So I looked again. Awesome. All right. So I think that was it for me. So Vice Mayor, can we get a motion to approve if you're okay? Absolutely. There's no corrections on my comment. Okay. So approval of minutes. Let me go ahead. Councilmember McDonald, you will be abstaining Vice Mayor Alvarez. Do you approve? Aye. Okay. And chair Rogers, do you approve? Yes. Thank you. The minutes from the August 22nd meeting 2022 are approved. And I'm going to, now it's public comment. Do you see any hands raised? Thank you. There are no hands raised for public comment. And item five, scheduled items, community engagement director report. Thank you so much, chair Rogers. My colleague is here. Good evening, everybody. And I have a really quick update for in terms of the community engagement work and some of the work that we've noted for open government task force. On November 16th, we will be holding an in-person summary of the community input on the Hearn Community Hub. So we'd love to invite the entire community for this review process. We'll be reviewing community themes, categories and programs that community would like to see in this space. And all from this community project, which again is about six, it's a six acre space. Secondly, we will be having a CAD meeting immediately after that. So again, November 16th, the CAD meeting will be from 7 p.m. to 8 p.m. at the utility field offices. This will be offered in a hybrid version so folks can either come to the utility field office or they can join us virtually through Zoom for that meeting. And then lastly, in terms of an update of community engagement staffing, as of two weeks ago, we have a new community engagement coordinator, Danny Chaparro, who we promoted from the Violence Prevention Partnership. So some of you may have interface with Danny, who's formerly with Violence Prevention. And he's going to be assisting us with deploying different community engagement events, strategies, and in addition, he's going to be working with our youth. So we want to thank our HR department for assisting us in get moving along these internships. We have PG&E funded internships that we're going to be coming out. So this is an opportunity for young folks who are interested in a particular department at the city or just working with and at the city. We want to encourage young folks to do that. Once we sort of get this thing moving and grooving out there, we're hoping to be holding interviews by late December to early January. And of course, we will be posting more as we get closer to that time. And then soon after that, we will be looking for a community outreach specialist. So that community outreach specialist will work for the Office of Community Engagement. They will be a limited term position. So we're looking at somewhere from 20 to 16 months. And that will definitely assist in expanding our reach in terms of the community engagement activities that we have scheduled and items that we would like to be able to pursue, some of them being directly items from the Open Government Task Force recommendations. So that is the end of my report. Thank you. Thank you. 5.2 is non-citizen voting update. Yes, and that will be me.  I do have a PowerPoint. It's just, I think, 10 pages long. So I should be able to go through it pretty quickly, but wanted to give some background. This is taken from a presentation that I did to the Charter Review Committee. There are some things that are updated since that time. So let me try sharing screen. I haven't always had great luck with this. So try this. Exit out of that. And just get my, okay. Well, let me try one thing. And if that doesn't work, then I'll, I'll send it off to her. I'm not sure why it's not showing up. So I will go ahead and send this. Very much apologize. Did that come through? Was that through an email, Sue? Yes, it was. Okay. Give me one on it. Okay. I'm not seeing it come through as of yet. Well, maybe we'll do it without a PowerPoint. Let me try one more time. I just tried it. I just sent it again. Checking. Perfect. It should be coming through here. I see it. It's just approaching scan. Okay. I know the scan takes a while. So why don't I go ahead and get started and then we can skip to get to the page that I'm on. So again, this is, this presentation is a version, an updated version from the presentation that I gave to the Charter Review Committee when they considered a proposal to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections. So the proposal was to, the idea was that we would allow all those who live in our community to participate in local elections, like the local elections only. And it would require a Charter Amendment. So that would have to be approved by the senators of voters. So to give some legal context, under federal and state law, non-citizens cannot vote in federal or state elections. Whether non-citizens can vote in local elections is a little less clear. But currently across the nation, there are 15 local jurisdictions. Actually, I'd add 16 local jurisdictions that I know of now that do allow for non-citizen voting in their local elections. And the criteria for eligibility to vote varies. Sometimes you have to be a lawful permanent resident. Sometimes you have to meet some length of residency requirement. Sometimes six months. Sometimes there is no, as long as you're a resident of the community, you can vote. So California, this is an update. Up until this late summer, okay, we can skip to the third slide, that one there. There's nothing in expressly in California law that precludes local jurisdictions from allowing non-citizens to vote. I was more confident in that statement during the summer when I was, or last spring when I was giving this presentation. I would say now that California law is unsettled as to non-citizen voting. There was San Francisco, as you'll see, allows non-citizens to vote in a school board, local school board elections, a court in during the summer in August struck that down and said that state law prohibits non-citizens to vote in local, prohibits local jurisdictions from allowing non-citizens to vote. That decision, that secured court decision is upon appeal. So we'll see how that goes. The appellate court did allow the election for this year to move forward with non-citizens voting. Next slide. And I also think it's helpful to have a little bit of historic trend, a historic context, because I think a lot of people, the first reaction is, well, wait a minute, you have to be a citizen to vote. What are we talking about? But actually, in early U.S. history, there were 40 different states at various times that allowed non-citizens to vote. That ended, though, in 1926. There have been no states that have allowed non-citizens to vote on statewide since 1926. As of December 2021, five states have adopted measures that expressly prohibit non-citizens from voting in local elections. In general, the folks that have looked at it nationwide have concluded that there are 14 states that have no clear impediments to local jurisdictions allowing non-citizens to vote. Again, among those 14 states, California was included. We now have that case. It's winding its way up through the appellate courts, so we'll see what the ultimate decision is on that. Next slide. So, as I said, there were 14 jurisdictions, 15 jurisdictions. At the time, I gave the initial presentation. There are now 16 at least. San Francisco, as I mentioned, non-citizen parents of school-aged children may vote in school board elections. That's currently under legal challenge. Oakland just passed a similar measure for school board elections. That also has now come under legal challenge. Maryland, there are 11 cities that allow non-citizens to vote. New York City adopted a law in 2021. That is also under legal challenge. And then in Vermont, there are two cities. The next two slides talk about what supporters say, what the opponents say. Supporters, folks that work and live here and pay taxes here, should be able to have a say in how our city is governed. Second is to allow non-citizens to vote. Strengthens the community, promotes engagement, investment, and belonging by non-citizens. Brings us all together. Third, when a segment of the community is excluded, we increase the risk of discriminatory public policies by allowing the entire community to vote and be included. We should have, the results should be more equitable public policies. And then fourth is, given the high costs and long waiting periods for naturalization, it really doesn't make sense to say, no, you have to wait through that long period of time. Even though you are a member of our community, you're fully engaged, you're paying taxes, there's no reason to make people wait. And then the fifth is taxation without representation, because you are being taxed, whether you are a citizen or not. Next slide. The opponents argue that people should accept the duties of citizenship before being granted the right to vote. Allowing non-citizens, they suggest that not allowing non-citizens to vote could discourage individuals from seeking citizenship. There are significant logistic hurdles to overcome. You have to establish a separate voting system for local elections, and I'll talk about that in a couple of slides. Opponents argue that there's possible risks of immigration enforcement for undocumented individuals. The counter to that is, give people notice of what the risks are, let them decide. And then legal concerns. If there are some legal concerns, you may get challenged as a local jurisdiction, you may be facing a lawsuit. Next slide. So what are the logistics concerns? You do have to have a separate data voter database, a separate ballot, and separate procedures. It would mean if Santa Rosa adopts that, it means we will be having a larger voter population than for federal, state, or regional elections. So our voter base will be different than the county as a whole. That means that we're going to have to prepare a separate ballot, separate ballot materials, so that would be only as to the local election. You're going to have to exclude federal, state, and regional elections from that ballot. And so you're going to have to, you're going to have dual ballots. There may be some way to have it as a single ballot with really clear markings as to what, who can vote in what. The registrar of voters did come and speak with the charter review committee and she confirmed that, yes, we would have to run, we, the city of Santa Rosa, would have to run that election. It'll require a separate voting procedure, separate mechanics. We would be on our own in running that election system. In terms of costs, we don't have any, any real estimate of the costs at this point. Next slide. So the charter review committee really had a very robust discussion on the potential for allowing non-citizens to vote in city of Santa Rosa elections. Ended up recommending that, yes, the council move forward with at least a consideration of expanding voting rights to non-citizens. They suggested that the council initiate a study session to look at and they named specifically these areas to look at. What would be the eligibility for voters? What's the cost of a new system? How would you go about implementing it? What have, what's been the experience of other cities and then related issues? The committee also very strongly urged that we have, we engage in a very robust community outreach and engagement so that we get a real sense of what the community's preferences are, how much support there is and really carry that through. There was a suggestion in the committee that the recommendation include a recommendation that the council place this on the ballot in 2026 to allow that the study session and the outreach and the really examination of everything. Time to move forward. That did not, that was actually a tie vote in terms of whether to set a deadline for council or not. So that did not pass, but there were again half of that, half of the committee did recommend trying to get it to move forward at least by 2026. And council did accept the recommendation. Again, that specific date wasn't included, but it did accept it. So where are we now? We will, we got through this election in 2022 election. The council did indicate that it wants to move forward with this. We don't yet have anything scheduled, but we will be looking at starting to move forward on that investigation. Of course, we are here in our office, we are monitoring the now two lawsuits here in California against San Francisco and against Oakland to see what happens. If the court of appeal ends up agreeing with the trial court that it's not permissible under state law, we'll have to, we would likely not continue to pursue that. Both San Francisco and Oakland concern voting on school board elections and there are some election code issues that play into that as well. So there might be a difference if it's just general local elections versus school board. I know San Jose has also been considering voting rights for non-citizens and there may be other cities across the state as well and we'll be looking at those options as well. So next slide, I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you for that city attorney. Does anyone have any questions? I do. Are you ready for me? Okay, so a couple of things. Have we done any outreach to our local schools to see if they had an interest in being a partner for this because I mean that's one of the initiatives that we would have is that parents can vote on their local school board members as well as their city council members. So if we're going to do an initiative like this, I think that would be the first step is to try to talk to the 11 school districts that are in City of Santa Rosa about, you know, kind of their thought process on that and sharing that with them in what San Francisco does. The difference is that San Francisco has one school district versus us with the 11. So my question on the election part of that, if we're going to be inclusive, is does that mean we have 11 different procedures that we would need for just that voting as opposed to how we're doing things citywide? And then if we're in district elections, how do we know is there going to be a process to checking addresses and things like that when people are registered to vote? What's that process? Because if the registrar's office isn't registering people to vote, what would that, how would that impact the city? And clearly I think cost would need to be looked at. If we're looking at 2026, how much would it cost? How much staff would we need to have having that kind of full analysis? If we're going to go out and put this out for charter, what I don't want to do is not be prepared to fully be able to explain to people voting on the charter amendment how much it would cost for us to do this, what would be the staff preparation on it, and really so that we can be prepared for helping with understanding as to why we see this as a good thing to do for engagement in the community. But I think that's pretty much kind of my thought process on this. I think specifically around school board voting it would just be so important to do, but I think that we do need to have a little bit more on that. I'd also kind of like to see what ends up happening in the appellate court as it comes back. Certainly, I think it's more disenfranchising if we move forward with something and then have a court decision overturn that. I think that that would be extremely disappointing for folks that have been able to come out, have a voice in something, and then to then go back and say that our own judicial system has disappointed them. And so I would not want to move forward until we had those questions answered on this specific topic. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I'll respond to a couple things. Yeah, in terms of the local schools, it would mean that we would be having separate ballots because the school districts don't correspond to our council districts. Those are going to be separate ballots. And again, we're going to have to run it all ourselves. We will not be able to rely on the county registrar or voter. So we'll need to set up our own election system entirely. So we'll certainly reach out to the schools and see if they are interested. But that does add another layer of complexity. I do also understand that that is so direct in terms of if your kids are in the school to be able to have a say in how the school is run as really critical. And yes, we would be doing, before we went to the voters, we would certainly be doing a full cost analysis with really a full analysis of what all is going to entail logistically. What do we need to get? Voting machines, how are we going to run our registration? We don't want to have, we don't want to have, we talked with the registrar or voters a little bit about, well, maybe they could still do elections and we're just running the non-citizens. But then you have potentially unequal voting system. So we nixed that pretty early on. So we'll be really doing a deep dive into all of that. And that's one of the reasons why we wouldn't be looking to do this until 2026, which at the earliest. The other element is the timing of the appeal. In general, my experience is that to get a decision from a court of appeal, the appeal has just recently been filed. They take time to get the transcript all in, then they have a briefing schedule, and then the court hears it and then the court has a certain amount of time after the hearing by which they can issue their decision. So it's usually about a two-year process to get a decision out of the court of appeal. If it were then to be appealed to the California Supreme Court, you're going to add another couple of years for that process as well. So, you know, it's possible that we get a decision sooner than two years out of the court of appeal, and maybe it doesn't go further up to the California Supreme Court. I would suspect that this would be the type of case that whichever side lost in the court of appeal would likely appeal it up to the Supreme Court. So we may be looking at quite a while before we have California law settled as to whether it's permissible or not. And then I just had one more kind of thought that kind of came to me as you were talking because of all of these different appeals that could potentially happen. Have we thought about if this is a goal of the city council and this is something we want to move towards? Have we thought about approaching our legislators at the state level to see if there is the will to potentially amend state law? Because certainly that would fix a lot of things because then the registrar as a voters would be beholden to state law, which makes it easier for all of us and it would be, you know, more than just the city of Santa Rosa that would give that opportunity to community members. So it just might be another route for us to consider talking about as we move forward if this is in fact something that city council definitely wants to look into. Yeah, and I think that's a great idea. And the court that struck it down did also cite the California Constitution. So if a court of appeal or the California Supreme Court relied only on statutory law, then yes, the legislative fix would work if they ruled against, I mean, this is all hypothetical. I don't know. I don't know, you know, where the courts will end up. But if they disallow voting rights for non-citizens and they do it based on the language of the California Constitution, then we would be needing a constitutional amendment that would have to be a statewide ballot measure. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's all worth trying. Appreciate your homework on all of this and it is helpful for us so that we actually know what we could potentially be working with if this is, you know, the role of the council to do. Thanks. Thank you. Vice Mayor, did you have any questions? No, I don't. Thank you. Thank you. So the attorney, I did have a question or two. What are the five states as of December 2021 that prohibited non-citizens from voting? You know, I don't have that off the top of my head. I have to pull it out.  So I was thinking. I just wanted to ask to clarify. And then another question I had was or a comment I wanted to make was the the cost being unknown. I think looking at some of the other jurisdictions that have passed it to kind of, like you said, observe them so that we do know what the cost will be and how often we will be doing that. So what elections, all elections, like, are we going to try to streamline elections or, you know, how can we make it happen by still making it economically feasible for us to do so, so that all our residents are heard. And the last question comment I had is what prohibits, and you can tell me that you don't know on this since it doesn't have anything to do with it, but to me it does, what prohibits felons who are citizens and also pay taxes from, is that a federal state? Is that federal law that prohibits them from voting? Yes, both federal law and state law. In our state constitution it says it's citizens may vote. So, and the same in federal. So federal, I don't know if it's just I'd have to look back whether it's just it's statutory or whether it's constitutional, but in California it's constitutional and statutory in terms of the state. So is that what, what keeps felons from voting? Oh, felon. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. I misheard that. I don't know. Stephanie, do you know? My guess is that that's statutory, but I don't know what it is either. I thought it was more running for office versus being able to vote. No, there's certain restrictions that they have that don't allow them to vote, which to me you can have a felony, I mean some years back and we send them through the system we say to allow them to come back in. I believe is that they don't have a pending charge or that they're not on probation, but they can't have a felony on the record, a felony on the record. Okay, so I think that that will be something that maybe will come up when we're looking at this and we're looking at having all of our residents have the opportunity to vote because that sure is something that comes up for me just because you're a felon doesn't mean you don't have kids, children that are in school. It doesn't mean that you don't go to the store and pay local taxes and pay, you know, so how does that work? So that would be all my questions or comments and public although I do not see anyone in the public. Correct. There are no hands raised for public comment. Perfect. So we'll go on to 5.3 discussion of open government task force pending recommendations and I believe golly is going to take this away. Is that correct? Thank you. This is part one of the open government task force recommendations pending items and also items that you can see here in red that have not been implemented but have been, you know, we can talk a little bit more of like where they stand and then just to give everybody some context and we can just jump straight into the first, you know, pending item which is goal one, one point to create a city mission statement which embraces community engagement. We've not done that but it's going to be our recommendation to forward that on to, sorry, City Council for consideration during their goal setting for this next time around and please correct me, Sue, if that's incorrect. But I believe we're going to be forwarding that over. Yes, that's correct. It is, has been our practice in the past that the mission statement does get examined during goal settings. So it seems that that's the most appropriate time to bring this forward and goal setting generally happens in February, sometimes March. So yeah, so essentially this is a call to integrate community engagement more into the city's mission statement. So there is sort of an action that's going to happen with that and that that will be going to goal setting. So hopefully we'll be changing the color on this soon. The next goal is we get into goal 2.1 which is to genuinely engage and partner with neighborhoods, volunteers, businesses, institutions and other organizations which support our community. So 2.11 is the shift definition of partnership to include community engagement and we're in the process of this as we're outlining what it looks like, sorry, to close the community engagement loop and we started doing some of this work in 2020 with the community empowerment plan as we went into communities to gather input to do listening sessions on what was the most prominent topic at that time which was to build better bridging between community and police. So we did get started in that process. And then are there any questions about this item? 2.12 is to coordinate the use of city, a volunteer city-wide. We have begun some of this work as we have our AmeriCorps VISTAs that we use that the office community engagement uses in our work. Typically we've had two, sometimes three. This year we have one VISTA that is joining us and doing work for the Violence Prevention Partnership and in tandem with some community engagement work. But you will soon be seeing more participation and this mostly youth led through our partnership with Latino service providers and their youth promotores. So we're going to be bringing them on to help us really engage not only our younger community but also our monolingual Spanish-speaking community. They already have a lot of great built-in networks through the work that they're doing and we're just going to really leverage and capitalize on them and them becoming young professionals and really assisting with different city engagement events. So you'll see more of that. We also have, as I mentioned earlier, these paid interns. There will be eight of them for this year coming up. So there'll be eight various departments that have already started the process of requesting an intern. So one of those departments will be our Office of Community Engagement to help us expand our reach. In addition, we are going to be utilizing making use of, and I do apologize I don't have the exact name here, but recreation already has a built-in volunteering system that they use that community members can just kind of plug into for different events being put on by recreation. And so we are going to be plugging into their system when we have some of our larger events to be able to have a larger reach with folks. And we're looking at expanding that network. So if there is a community group that you'd like for us to make sure that we are engaged with, if they have Youth Promotores or some Youth Promoter model, we'd love to learn more about it. So moving to item 2.1G, build on the excellent engagement model of the Santa Rosa Violence Prevention Partnership. We have been deploying that in some aspects, but I think the initial intention and I want to state again that unfortunately I wasn't with the city when a lot of the original conversation around this came about, but I understand that this was really around neighbor fest and creating community hubs and partnerships within community. That is an item that we will be exploring once we hire our community outreach specialist that will specifically be working on really building on neighborhood engagement, understanding who the neighborhood groups are that are already formed, how those groups get formed, and how the community, sorry, how the city could tap into and partner with those groups, especially when there are larger city messaging opportunities, various items that are coming out. And then item 2.1H to make use of key strategies outlined by Matt, police forgive my pronunciation of this, but Lane and Juror's discussion on planning for stronger local democracy, a field guide for local officials to effectively engage the community during decision making, specifically looking at actively recruiting diverse viewpoints, also involving those citizens in structured facilitated small group discussions interspersed with large forums or amplifying shared conclusions and moving talk to action, which again is going back to our spectrum of community engagement. Give the participants in these meetings the opportunity to compare values and experiences and consider range views and policy options. And lastly to produce tangible actions and outcomes. We have done some of these items again through our community empowerment plan. We also have the seed recommendations coming to council in January, I believe, and where there is explicitly an area where we make recommendations on behalf of communications and community engagement that is what we consider to be a more equitable distribution of how we get the word out and also on engaging community. And specifically with the community empowerment plan, there's a lot of work and consideration towards being trauma informed when working with community and understanding the diverse communities that we're working with. And then the partisan process is trying to hire or create an evaluation for the current community engagement process that we do have given that community engagement is operating with half of my time and then now a full-time position with Danny Chaparro who's a coordinator and then hopefully soon another 20-month position coming up soon through this community outreach specialist. So with that update, are there any questions? Any questions from council members? All right, open it up to public comment. There are no hands raised for public comment. Seeing none, thank you so much for that presentation. We will be going to future agenda items. This time is reserved for discussion whether to place matters on future agenda for further discussion. Potential items for future agendas include original mayor's open government task force report presentation and which will occur in February and open government ordinance implementation update which has not been scheduled as of yet. Is there anything that either council member McDonald or vice mayor Alvarez would like to see on the future agenda? All right, seeing none. That's okay. I'll just jump right in. I would like to have us talk about our website a little bit more for engagement and for the need for posting public meetings in different languages. I think that we need, I know we're looking at improving our website right now but it was just brought to my attention recently. Not only how we are engaging public on the meetings but the need for us to consider more than just having things translated in Spanish. And then in addition to that what meetings, how they can navigate through to find our meetings, that seems to be also very problematic. And in my time on council I have yet to hear one person that speaks a different language than me ask a question during council. And so that tells me we are not doing a good enough job engaging community members that aren't native to English speaking. And that is a concern of mine when it comes to open government and being transparent. I think we need to look at those areas please. Can I just say jump in real quick? Council member McDonald, we currently, the agenda, any agenda can be translated into any of the language on Google. It's not just Spanish anymore. So you just choose the language that you want to be able to read your agenda. And so I've tested it. I've done it in Farsi. I've translated our council agendas into a few different languages just to see what it looks like. But there is that option and to do that what we can do, I can look at the website where all of our meetings are posted. That's not actually our portal. It's Granicus's portal made to look like our website. So we don't have another way to list all of those because a lot of the agendas are generated through the Granicus system that we have. I do know that on the website there is an icon that says agendas in minutes that takes you right to the portal. But just so that you know there is a way to get agendas in different languages. It's not just in Spanish. That's helpful. I'd still instead of so many steps like to talk about how we can make it a bit easy for folks. But I appreciate you, you know, letting me know. I figured there was a way I just want to make it easier and more inviting. Any other feature agenda items? All right. Seeing none, 7 is adjournment. So thank you guys for hanging in there with me through my technical difficulties and have a great night. Bye-bye.