If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, for the first 20 minutes or so, we have some fun conversation. We talk about mental health. We always have fun, Sal. And physical health, and are they separate or are they the same thing? It's all one. We talk about ketones versus glucose, the benefits of each. Which one does your body run better on? Exactly. And then we talk about the increases of antidepressant use. I also mentioned Thrive Market. All that matter, all lovers out there. Exactly. I also mentioned Thrive Market in this episode.  That's right, they love you. They do. Then we get into the questions. The first question was, what is the proper way to bulk up? Is there a more effective way? Is there a less effective way? How do we recommend you do it? Pizza bulking. The second question is, how do you read studies? In other words, what do you look for? How do you determine if the studies are credible and if you should take them seriously? I deferred this one to Sal. Yeah, like red wine burns body fat. No, it doesn't. Next question was about cardio. We talk about it in terms of if you overdo it, it may sacrifice longevity. This particular person is saying, well, if that's true, then why do we see 60-year-old triathletes who are just kicking ass?  Ask yourself that. Exactly. My telomeres are telling me other things. I think you just wanted to use telomeres. Yeah, telomeres. I think that's what that was. And finally, what are the top five most functional lifts? We have a little debate about that, but I think at the end, we have a consensus. Also, MAPS anabolic, it's our foundational program. It includes trigger sessions. Now, you don't find the trigger session concept almost in any other program. It's extremely effective. Unless it's being copied. It's the program that kind of got us our start. If you haven't done any of our programs, this is the place to get started. It is excellent for building strength, building muscle. It's a three-phased workout. Three days a week. It's about nine weeks long, not counting pre-phase. If you count pre-phase about 12 weeks long, extremely effective. You can find it at Mind Pump Media. Don't forget, too. All the programs have a 30-day money-back guarantee also. That's right. I did want to talk to you guys about something kind of interesting. When we went, we met with Rob Wolf. Then we had Chris Cressor here, which we don't know when his episode's gonna air if it was before this one or after. But anyway, Chris Cressor, brilliant guy in the world of functional medicine and wellness. And we're talking about this silent epidemic, the mental health epidemic that's exploding. That's crazy. And it completely mirrors the physical health epidemic. We know now how poor health contributes to anxiety, depression, ADHD, all these mental disorders. And then we're medicating on top of that and we're getting all the symptoms or is resulting from that as well. Well, but besides that, we are seeing, we have this explosion in poor health. Of course, we're gonna have this explosion in poor mental health. So I looked up some statistics.  Well, is this from the study he sent over to you? Or is this some token? No, no, no. So that spurred it, because he did send me a study. So the study that he showed me was that people with autoimmune inflammatory disorders, like irritable bowel syndrome or multiple sclerosis are at much, much, much higher risk for mental disorders like depression or anxiety. And that's an obvious connection, especially now that we have studies that show how inflammation contributes to those and how poor gut health contributes to those and all that stuff. But it's just incredible how we try to separate the two when they're actually both, the one and the same health is health. And so I looked up some statistics.  And it's just getting, it seems to be getting worse in many, many ways. Let's look at statistics for antidepressant prescriptions for- In regards to life. How many prescriptions are being put out? How many people are diagnosed now with depression, anxiety? Well, when my wife went in to get like, for a thyroid, you know, and her thyroid was low. So they're prescribing right away. They wanted to give her an antidepressant. That was the first thing just because they could treat something right then. Off of her thyroid? Yeah. That was the next, that was the go-to- Because her symptoms presented themselves in a common way that many times you don't have necessarily something measurable, although she did have low thyroid. So that was the remedy. Right. Yeah, you're right. That's like the first line of defense. But my point is mental illnesses are exploding in this country and suicide is at all-time highs and in most age groups, suicide. All this stuff is, and then we're like, we're living in a time where things are- We're not combining that at all. The thought process isn't like- Everybody thinks the mental part is- Yeah, but I would say that's all genetic. What's hard is you have to tease out everything, right? You have to tease out that, you know, our population is increasing at a rapid rate. Then you bring in the stuff that, and I know people are probably tired of being- Well, it's a percentage of population, so that wouldn't matter because- Oh, it was a percentage, it's not person. You're not- No, no, that's not total numbers. Okay, so percentage. So that does tease that out. But then you have to take into account other factors that I think actually play into this also, which is like social media. 10 years now we have, that's all we have of this data of all these people, you know, posting pictures of themselves and getting likes or not getting likes and the, oh my God, nobody likes me type of bullshit. Like, that didn't exist. It exaggerates, yeah. That didn't exist 15 years ago. When we were kids, it wasn't like that. Like, if you were sad and depressed because you didn't have friends because nobody knocked on your door and no one wanted to play with you or you were picked last. Like, that was it. Like, there wasn't, like, I wasn't just getting this constantly bombarded with, oh, I don't feel good about myself. You just see more status, right? I wasn't in check, like, constantly. So that's what I thought too. And I would definitely bet that social media plays a role. We don't have enough data yet because it hasn't been around long enough yet. But I would definitely bet, if I were to bet money, I would bet it does. Although science has an interesting way of proving us wrong, right? However, if you look at the growth of diagnosis of these mental disorders, it's been growing since the obesity epidemic began. So way before social media exploded, you see this rise, 80s, 90s, early 2000s, that's continued rise. So it's not like we saw this kind of constant amount and then this jump. Well, then the debate with that would then be just the awareness of it and then people sharing it. And we're now familiar with it because go back another 20 years or 30 years before that and it was something that we didn't even diagnose, right? Well, suicides, suicides are up too in all age groups. I mean, for me, if I look at the whole thing, I think there's a lot of factors that you can speculate. But the one that I think is pretty guaranteed, at least for me and the science show this, although a lot of people don't talk about this, is if your physical health is poor, you're probably not gonna have great mental health or at least your odds of having poor mental health are much higher. I don't, and it's interesting to me that this is even a debate with a lot of people. We have studies that show that exercise and nutrition are as effective or more effective than antidepressants for treating mild to moderate depression. That's already established. Well, and this goes back to what we talked about before too that a lot of people think they feel good because they don't know what great feels like or they've never felt their body at optimal and what it feels like.  And they feel like, oh, I'm totally fine. I feel, I don't feel like I'm not healthy, but that's because they've never actually cleaned up everything.  And even speaking from experience, I remember when we went through the whole ketogenic process and for the first time in my life, I was eating under 100 grams of carbs on a daily basis. And it was a significant difference in my cognitive function. I mean, I could tell when we would podcast like this.   And when I'm low, lower carb, higher fat diet, I'm way sharper than when I am. And I've played with this multiple times and I've been like, oh, let me introduce another two, 300 grams of carbs. That's what I found from fasting. Same thing, so much sharper as a result of that. And once you got through the actual hurdles of learning how to navigate in that situation and what real hunger actually feels like and then when I actually need food and when it's gonna benefit me the most. So did you know there's some recent studies now that are showing that a ketogenic type diet can help treat or can be used as a treatment for anxiety and mild depression? They're actually showing now that exactly what you said. Now, I wanna be clear, it's not the answer to everything. I think it may be good for a lot of people. And I think when people are in a study like that. It's not gonna hurt people to try it though. What I think is when you're in a study like that, they probably went in with a shitty diet. And so, yes, it was keto, but it was also probably an improvement. Right, you have to unpack that, right? It's not the fact that it's the ketogenic diet that it's now making these people feel better or less depressed. It's probably the overconsumption of processed foods and sugar and carbohydrates and then the switching over to probably more whole foods, higher, good, healthy fats. And that it's really not the diet. I think that's what we were always trying to get that message across that it's not this, such thing as a magical diet that's gonna make a person feel this way. But there are characteristics that come from a ketogenic diet which is eating a higher. Running on ketones like feel what that feels like.  Like it's interesting. It's on that topic of running on ketones versus like glucose. You know, it's funny to me like, I prefer glucose if I'm like an athlete. Like if I was always playing sports, like I wasn't there as a media. Right, but as an older adult who doesn't play sports every day of his life anymore, I prefer running on ketones, you know, for mental clarity purposes, satiety, you know, no cravings, things like that. It just seems like the body operates on that system better. And then if you're an athlete, then I get it. It seems more efficient, yeah. Right, yeah. But like if you're trying to be explosive or like do things like sprinting or, you know, that then obviously like for me, like glucose makes a lot more sense. Well, exogenous ketones are, I've used them as a new tropic. So I'll supplement with them sometimes if I want to be more sharp and I'll take the exogenous ketones and I'll take it with like another natural new tropic or I'll combine it with like the, you know, like Camero Coffee that's got the new tropics. Yeah, you're the only one that's been really experimenting with the exogenous ketones, right? Have you done any of that, Adam? I've taken them like twice. I'm not a big fan. You know, who was it we just recently discussed? Rob Wolf. Was it Rob Wolf? Yeah, you know. He made some good points.  So now you do have ketones, but people are taking this who also have adequate glycogen and, you know, carbohydrates in their system. It is still in their system. So now, Sending two different signals. Not only are you sending two different signals, but the only time a human body will have high levels of both ketones and, you know, carbohydrates or glycogen present is in ketoacidosis when they're diabetic and they're not, you know, it's unhealthy statement. Yeah, it's unhealthy, yeah. Yeah, otherwise it doesn't happen in nature. You don't get ketones unless you run out of glycogen and not to mention too, we're splitting hairs here too.  Yeah, it is, man. Those things are like 50, 60 bucks a pop for like a... Remember how much CBD? Oh, we're looking into that. Dude, it should, yeah, no, it's just exactly. No, it's a great example. CBD is another one that we promote, talk about because of the benefits that we have found.   Like for the amount of advantage that you're getting for that, unless like we talked about earlier, if this was somebody who's got cancer or it's like, then at all costs, I'm trying everything I possibly can, but for the everyday person who's trying to use ketones for better performance or fat loss or it's like, come on, you're splitting hairs, I would much rather invest that money in something else that is gonna benefit you long term. So I got some statistics here for you based on what we were talking about earlier with mental health disorders. So from 1999 till 2014, there's been a 65% increase. Wow, 65? And the amount of people using antidepressants. So huge jump. 65%? Increase, right? Huge jump. Now, there could be, there's two sides of that too, right?  Agreed. Because it's easy, it's more accepted because it's already going, so then they're pushing it on top of it. It's quick, easy. It's a condition they can treat, right? Real quick, so. I agree, I agree, but it's- And we probably know they're addictive, so it's just like a drug dealer. Well, I mean, they're not necessarily addictive, but they will have dangerous withdrawal symptoms when you go off of them. That's addictive, motherfucker.  So here's the thing, when you look at countries who have this kind of poor health epidemic, you see the similar type of pattern, although the U.S. kills everybody in per capita prescription drugs. I mean, it's incredible. We are one of the most, we are the most- We're the biggest drug dealer in the world, bro. Yeah, by far. 100% were the biggest drug dealers. Here's some more statistics. Adults between 20 and 44, the prescriptions of anti-ADHD medication and anti-anxiety medications has increased 30%. So that's gone through the roof as well. Basically across the board, these psychiatric medications have exploded and the diagnosis have exploded. And I think we're in the middle of a health epidemic that encompasses everything, not just physical health. And I don't know about you guys, but I've been training for 20 years. I don't remember as many clients telling me that they're on these medications or suffering from anxiety like now. Now it's normal. Yeah, anxiety is everywhere. It's normal. When I talk to a client, like nine to 10 times, that is something that they wanna work on. It wasn't ever really, I don't remember- There's just so many factors that contribute to that. Besides the poor nutrition and the poor stress and all this stuff like just being connected all the time on your phone and just not being able to unplug. And we talked about this and had people on the show that have highlighted the addictive properties and just how real that is and how we're just bombarded. We're overstimulated. Do you think part of it though is just that it's become more accepted and so that's part of why? It's just like, oh, it's the norm. It's like, oh, Susie and Tommy and so and so, they take- Well, I'm communicating. They take Adderall and they take this. I definitely think that's part of it because as it becomes less taboo then more people are willing to ask for it and then so on. Because when I was a kid, that didn't even exist. Like that wasn't even in school. You didn't talk about it at least. Nobody I knew. I didn't know any kids when I was in high school and all. They wouldn't have talked about it, that's for sure. Oh, you think so? If it was your prescription that you were getting it, it was more you're embarrassed about it or whatever? Because kids have been getting prescribed. Back in the day. No, it has been, but not like it where it's, I mean, so you gotta go back. Remember, that's 15 plus years ago for me, right? So that's over 15 years ago. That was not normal whatsoever. It wasn't until like maybe watching my younger siblings go through school and stuff like that.   I wish I would have. I probably would have done it even better. Take a status for performance.  Yeah, I would have been stuck on this goddamn podcast with you motherfuckers, that's for sure. You would have been like a PhD something and had a supplement company.   It's legal, that's the only difference. It's legal crack is what it is. And you know, you get your hands on that at a very young age. Talk about what that's setting you up for long term.  So you can't tell me that taking a psychiatric drug doesn't, isn't gonna affect that in some way. And of course, there's definitely people out there that need these substances, these drugs, but I don't think it's, number one, I don't think it's as many as we think, but number two, I do think that because our health is worse, because our gut biomes are so off and that gets passed on generation to generation, because they do find, from generation to generation, the gut microbiome becomes less diverse each time because you get a lot of your fingerprint from your mom.  And then, if your girl has kids, and then it's gonna work. You know, I was thinking about that as far as like, you know how they're coming in for like stem cell and all that stuff, and they're gathering all this for like further science, like down the road. Like, I was wondering about that as far as like the microbiome, like if somebody were to kind of have like really quality microbiome that they swab, you know, with a newborn, to set them up, you know.  The hard part is like, we don't even know what a quality of microbiome is. Well, we don't know it yet. I'm saying down in the future. For sure. You know what I mean? 100% when they figure this out, we are gonna see medications where it's specific bacteria for specific things. Oh, you have. And I'm not even exaggerating. Well, they're already somewhat playing with that when they swipe the mom's vaginal canal when after a C-section, right?  But what I'm talking about is, and you mark my words, this is gonna happen. Thank God we don't remember that. Yeah, it happened. This is gonna happen in medicine. They are going to make specific strengths. Or do you, did you have this weird, or do those kids- Is that like imprinted in your head?  You know what I'm saying? They could be. Has anyone done a study on that yet? I don't know. That's something that I haven't. How long have they been doing that for? Has anybody done a study on that? Well, it wasn't that long ago. I mean, when C-sections were like a dime a dozen, not that long ago, then we found out that it was the percentage of kids that were born with autism that went through C-sections. It was- Well, it's just higher rates of allergies and all kinds of different things. But how long ago was that? It wasn't 10 years ago, was it? No. So we don't know. There's always a cause and effect to everything. So we might have fixed the allergies, but now you have this weird sexual addiction to mothers. No, dude.  That's why all that's on you porn.  Not really, dude. Not really. I got an idea.  Come on, man. Let's clean it up in here. I don't want to talk about that. Anyway, what I was going to say is they're going to design specific medications of specific strains for particular ailments, including mental ailments. Mark my words. You will see here, take this probiotic for depression, for anxiety, for whatever, and people are going to be taking them. That's going to be a huge part of medicine. Yeah, the question that I have with that then, is it better for us to use probiotics like that to kind of create this healthy bacteria or is it better to, again, address lifestyle, eating habits, things like that to promote a healthier gut? I don't think many cases we're not going to have a choice. That's the problem. You know what I mean? I think that's going to be the problem. It's going to be like a... What do you mean? I think we'll always have the choice. I think the way our lifestyles are going, we are 100% heading in that direction because that's still better than the route we're going right now, right? So I agree with you on that. But then you have to ask yourself, I could see it being not as good for us than it would be to change behaviors, habits, not go through certain... Ideally both, right? Right, right. Or just the lifestyle. Yeah, right. I think it'll always go back. Overall, yeah. I think it'll always go back. Even, remember when I told you guys, I started supplementing with vitamin D after you shared the Harvard study with me, right? You liked the D. Yeah, that's right. So he's the one. Yeah, it is, right? After that, then it kind of dawned on me, like, well, when I really noticed this happen was when I started working in gyms. I mean, I was literally born taking in the sun all day. From sun up, sun down, I was in the sun to the point where I had a really, really dark complexion. And it wasn't until, and until I was in my 20s when I started working in gyms did I not have that lifestyle anymore. And it took about four or five years and all of a sudden out of nowhere, here comes psoriasis.   Knowing that vitamin D is correlated with all almost skin issues. And then it makes so much sense to me that I went from being somebody in my entire life that was exposed to tons of sun lightening, tons of vitamin D, more than my body probably needs, to all of a sudden getting like zero. Literally, like, because I would, well, I would work. It's got more freckly. I would get to the gym before the sun came up and I would work till the sun came down. So, and for years, that's where it was. And then all of a sudden this comes down. And you know vitamin D acts like a hormone in the body, right? Right. So another, yeah, right. So affecting that also.  Right. And so for me, so then I started supplementing vitamin D and noticed it helped suppress my psoriasis. But then I go like, okay, well, I'm one step better than what I was before. I'm still not like the ideal. Ideal would be in the sun. Yeah, so now I've tried to, and I know that people, our fans love to hear when we like implement things like this in our life. So, you know, the other day I had to take a call, right? And I was on the phone, it was just a business call and it was like a 45 minute call. And I was sitting in my living room because that's, I was sitting there on the computer working and it was still sunny outside. And I'm like, what am I doing? Like I could, I just stepped right outside, sat in a chair. It was a beautiful day. It was like 75 degrees. Like why? Right. And it felt amazing and I felt so good afterwards. But just having to retrain myself to think about that like, wow, how easily I could just kind of cut that out of my life. It was such a part of my life as a child and you don't think of course twice about it.  And then I go see, then I go see, then I go talk to Western medicine and they say, here's a steroid for it. Take some shots. Here's some pills. Put some cream on it. Put some cream on it. And then I'm like the rest of my life rubbing cream on myself and not realizing that, every time I get stressed out just a little bit about putting the cream on myself, that's flaring it up more anyways. And so playing this game forever and then it's years later, you hand me a study about vitamin D being correlated to it. And it's like, okay, let me try supplementing. Then, oh my God, oh, I should have just been outside more. And not to mention the side effects of those steroids and creams you had to use. Right.   But part of it's our fault. How many people do you think if they went to the doctor and the doctor goes, okay, I'm looking at your lab results right now and here's what you need to do. I want you to exercise three days a week. You need to get better exercises. Go outside at least 20 minutes a day. And here's your new diet. And here's your new diet. And then they hand it to them. How many people would do it? You know what's crazy? You're right. Even I wouldn't do it. But if you explain to me why I'm supposed to go out and what I'm more than likely- So you see the flare ups, you're actually gonna like take that into consideration. Right. I think that's the missing piece, right? And this is why no one does that because you get 12 minutes with your doctor.  But instead, if I really understood that I have this deficiency, more than likely that's the main reason, right? Whether it be I was genetically predisposed or not. Like here I have this deficiency from vitamin D because I'm no longer in the sun. So hey, I'm gonna give you this cream or what about that? But really what you should do is get out and get in the sun as much as you can because you're deficient in vitamin D and that's one of your greatest sources of getting vitamin D is that way. And maybe here's some food choices that you should make sure are in your diet and like, oh, okay, thank you, you know? It's, you know what though? They do that for certain things. Like when people go to the doctor and they're given a statin or blood pressure medication, I know because I have family members that go to the doctor and the doctor will say to them, okay, we're gonna have to raise your blood pressure medication, but you know, if you just lost weight and you exercise and you wouldn't have to take as much and you know what they do? They go take the fucking- Double dosing. Yeah, they go take more medication, dude.  And they're my family members. My family do the same thing. They just tell them like, listen, you need to work out. You need to write, nope, I don't want to get away here.  So, yeah. Let me do this way. They get pissed off when they have to take a pill more than once a day. That's too much. Do you know how many people go to the doctor and like, what do you mean I gotta take it twice a day? Don't you have one I can take once a day? I don't have to remember to take it twice. I want to take a course pill. That's too much work, I had to remember it again. It's true, dude. Gobble it down.  No, it is. It's an uphill battle.  Sheesh. Green Quo. The Eagle has landed. Chimaera Quo. Today's Quo is being brought to you by Chimaera Coffee. It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural neutral picks for a cleaner, calmer, and more focused buzz without the crash. Put the Chimaera link at mindpumpmedia.com and input the discount code Mindpump a check out for 10% off. It's the motherfucking Quo. The Eagle has landed. Quiqua. All right, first up is X-Griffo. Proper way to bulk up. Do you recommend it to build muscle? So, bulking up is the old school way of bulking up is eating a tremendous amount of calories, calories, excuse me, for a prolonged period of time, gaining lots of weight, because that's what's going to happen, and you get stronger and you build more muscle. There definitely is an anabolic effect from eating more calories. Even people who are sedentary, if they boost their calories, will get initially, there's evidence to show that they'll build a tiny bit of muscle initially, and then they kind of lose that effect. Now, that even happens with people who work out.  So that's one thing to consider. The second thing to consider is, the best time to do a bulk is right after you do a cut. That is an incredible feeling. And I have never felt, and I've taken, I've taken over-the-counter pro hormones, I've taken all these different things, supplements, whatever, there is, I can't think of a more anabolic muscle building feeling than going from a cut to a bulk. I mean, it's like, it's pronounced. Well, there's so many things that are benefiting you there, like that, why you get that, right?   Like I didn't, my whole life I was on the bulk because I was the skinny kid who was always trying to build- You want to maintain your muscle muscle. Trying to build muscle. So never in my mind would I ever think, oh, for the next three to four weeks, I'm gonna try and lose weight. That just seems absurd. But had I known what I know now and had I gone through what I went through in my late 20s, this is what I highly recommend to any of the young hard gainers, and I say that in quotation mark, right? So for anybody who wants to build is to actually first go on a short mini cut for two or three weeks where you're actually restricting calories and dieting like you're trying to lose and then going back the other direction.   You'll have lowered your, you'll have lowered your caloric intake that's necessary to bulk and build because normally guys that are hard gainers like myself or had a hard time getting enough calories, you know, if I'm constantly feeding, shoving, shoving food, my body's getting used and used to processing that much food. On top of that, would you also suggest like maybe a day of protein fasting?  Well, yeah, even or intermittently fasting. Like, so what I would do is I would run, like this is the protocol I would run now. Like if I was the skinny kid trying to bulk up and build muscle, knowing what I know now and understanding physiology the way I do now compared to what I did in my early 20s, I would cut first for two or three weeks where I'm pushing as low calorie as my body can handle where it's relative from where you're at right now trying to lean out. Cause part of what I'm doing by doing that too is your metabolism is going to slow down. Like your leptin's going to get suppressed. It's the opposite of what we tell people to do when they wouldn't have a slow metabolism. Right, right. It's the opposite, right? So I'm kind of trying to do that. I'm trying to, in a sense, kind of slow my metabolism down by cutting, reducing, reducing calories. And then I'm going to come back the other way.  You do. And in fact, when I coach people through bulking now, even through their period of bulking, I have them inject low calorie days. So the same, okay, so it's really no different than how I would recommend someone cut. When I'm telling, when someone's trying to get leaner. Right, we actually tell them to add calories first. I'll undulate their calories and I'll give them a day or two that are higher calories cause I know it helps the metabolism. With someone who's trying to bulk, it's just the reverse, it's the flip. I'll have them most days being a big surplus and then there's going to be a day or two where they're actually going to be in a deficit. That's another way I like to use it. And when people do that, they get more lean body mass and more strength gains from it and less fat gains from it. And I know you're listening right now. Some of you listening were thinking, I don't care if I gained some body fat. I'm really skinny. No, no, no, you would rather gain muscle. That's the point. The point isn't necessarily, you don't want to gain fat, although a lot of you don't.   It's winter and this is coming up right now. You're about to see all the- Dirty bulk season. All the Instagram turds are going to start posting there. It's bulk season. Everybody- Fruity pebble pizzas. Everybody is pop and pop tarts and we're going to go up 20, 30 pounds because it's winter and it's bulk season. And out of that 20 pounds, 16 of it's fat, four of it is actually muscle. So you did put some lean mass on. That's why you feel your strength go up and you feel stronger in the gym and you look bigger. You're feeling your shirts out.  And you're back where you started. And if you're very lucky, you're up one pound of muscle. You've been way better off gradually building it up. I am speaking from personal experience. Every year I would get my, so I'm six feet tall, right? I weigh now, I walk around about 190 pounds. I used to get my body weight up to between 220 to 230 every winter. Every winter I would gain 30 to 40 pounds. And then every summer I'd drop it down and try and get to about 10% body fat, which would be probably anywhere between 190, something in the mid 190s. Every year I would do this. And I'd always come back the same. It wasn't like I was gaining muscle every year. It was the same kind of back and forth. And it just wasn't as effective as when I started to learn how to do these mini cuts and mini bulks where I'd go on a two, like a two week deficit and then go on a four week surplus, two week deficit, four week surplus. Of course, overall, surplus is, I'm in a surplus more often because my ultimate goal is to gain. But I would always have these deficits because I would notice just tremendous effects when I come out of them, bump up those calories. It would like, it would all go to my muscle. In fact, if I got myself really lean, cause there's a couple of times where I got myself down into like a four, you know, the 5%, 6% body fat range, I would bulk and for two or three weeks, I would stay, I would be shredded. I would be shredded still. I would just get bigger. And it was like the most awesome, it's like one of the most awesome feeling. So that's the proper way to bulk.   And not to mention, once as a male, once we get beyond, what is it, 15, 17% body fat, our testosterone starts to suppress. It can start to affect it. I think it's around 20%, but yeah. Yeah, I think it's more like 15. Is it really? Yeah, I think so. 15 for a male and maybe it's 20, 25 for a female, right? Once you start getting around that 15% plus of body fat for a male, your hormone levels start to dip, which that's the last thing we want to happen if we're trying to build muscle is to suppress testosterone at all.  In men act like estrogen and you'll see estrogenic like quality. Men get boobies. And they do, they do. So yep, that's the proper way to bulk. Mini cuts, mini bulks. We talk about, you know what? There's, we did a YouTube video. You and I did a YouTube video. We did that. We talked exactly about this. Yeah, so you should, on Mind Pump TV, you can go find where Sal and I discuss, I think, underlating calories or something. So what are some of your guys' like now, right? Now that we know better, what are, cause I'm gonna actually, actually I'm gonna do a bulk pretty soon. I'm gonna do a bulk, a mini bulk, which I haven't done in a while, like a concentrated one. I'm gonna do it towards the end of November going into December. I have it all planned out. And, but the way I do it now is very different. Like the way I used to do it was all calories. Like anything I could eat, I would eat. And the more I could eat the better.  I'll eat lots of bison or ground, ground beef, grass-fed ground beef. Chicken, tuna, that kind of stuff. Avocados, macadamia nuts for my fat sources. Just high-quality, high-calorie foods is what I'll end up eating a lot more of. But I'll have, I will do more of the starches. Buckwheat in particular. I don't know if you guys ever eat buckwheat. I don't really get buckwheat.    No, Stax does buckwheat pancakes. And I've had them not that long ago, but it's not something, it's not a regular thing in my diet. I know Thrive Market is where, isn't that where you get yours? Yes, so they have these buckwheat, I'm gonna look up the name. Maybe Doug can find it for me, the brand that I get. These buckwheat pancakes that are amazing. And so, and I don't put tons of syrup in it. What does it call for? So the buckwheat is obviously replacing the flour. So you're getting the buckwheat, and then what else, do you have to add eggs to it or anything like that? Or is it literally like- Oh, it's a mix. I'm sure that's part of it. You add water in the mix. That's it? You just add water. What? Yeah, yeah, you add water to it.  Really? Yes, I showed you guys the other day. I know you did, but you didn't show me you making it though. You didn't have to put eggs, no milk, no nothing in it. You literally just water in the mix, really. Yep, yep, and they have ones made with buckwheat. They have some that are paleo, that are made with almond flour, and is that the one? Arrowhead, yeah. Arrowhead. Yeah, so that's one of them. And then there's another brand that I also eat. How much is that? 395. That's it? Yeah. Damn. Dude, there's so many companies that are doing this, like at the fitness conventions, like this is like a big thing, right, is all the pancake mix. The mixes? Yeah, all the mixes. They retail them for like 15, 20 bucks, dude, for these bags. Are those because of their protein? Well, yeah, some of them are, you know. Okay, here we go. Everything's got protein now. That's what I'm saying, like everything's protein. So here's the other brand, I like, it's Birchbenders, and they have a protein pancake and waffle mix. They have a paleo pancake and waffle mix, and they have a regular one. And my kids love them, but anyhow. So both brands are on Thrive Market? Both brands, so Birchbenders is the other one that I like. Yeah, see, that one is really, really good. Oh, they have a protein one? Yeah, yeah, look at the protein one, and look at the... Even the protein one's 479. 479, dude. Okay. And Whole Foods, that's almost $7, by the way. What I like to do is I'll make these in the morning, and I'll just put butter on them and eat them just like that, because I don't use syrup. And they taste good.  But I also like just straight up buckwheat that you can make into like a cream of wheat type of cereal. And it's just, buckwheat is such an easy thing to digest. And if anybody, if you're listening and you have good issues and you want to get in more starches, because you're just trying to build muscle or get more calories, buckwheat is an excellent source of easily digestible gluten-free carbohydrates. Man, I'm not using our Thrive Market enough. I didn't realize all these products. Bro, you need to buy... Like everything's in there. Look at, okay, so the protein one has whey protein in it, already there. All you do is add water. So there you go. 16 grams of protein per serving.  Yeah, for the protein pancakes. I don't have that one, because it's got dairy in it. It's such a wuss. You need to, dude, you need to do all your shopping there. No, I know, I haven't. Decide to be proud. Katrina has bought a few things on there for us, but I haven't gone on and like really done like a... What I want to do is, and we're due this week, to go hit like our Whole Foods Run. Instead of going to Whole Foods, I'm going to order everything, see if we can order everything off of there. I want to do that, too. I've just been doing condiments and like shampoos and all those types of things. But yeah, I want to get more of the food. They have that wide of a selection. Everything. Yeah, they even, and they have competitors for similar type stuff, too. Everything, everything you'll find at Whole Foods, you'll find there, except for the perishables. Like you're not going to get tomatoes. You know what, I know when we interviewed him, he told, I can't remember how many different products they had. Do you remember the number? No, it was a lot. It was a lot. And I'm wondering what that is in comparison to like Whole Foods and some of your normal stores like that. I think they rival that, right? Yeah, I'm sure they're adding them all the time. Oh, no. They're up there. Yeah, that's crazy. Well, for the listeners, thrivemarket.com and then you get like all kinds of stuff that I can never remember and that we get in trouble for not remembering. I think it's, what is it? Free membership. We have too much stuff. For free membership, you get your first three orders or $20 off each order. That's $49 or more. Yeah, $49 or more, plus free shipping. Plus free shipping. Right, and the way it works, it's a $60 a year membership, similar to like how Costco does it, but the cool part is... You do the mine pump code, you get that. It's basically... Yeah, if you use the mine pump code, you get the free month and then you get $20 off your next three purchases as long as it's over $49. You basically get the money back that you'd have on the membership. So, and what's so awesome that a lot of people don't realize how it works and like how they can get away with being so cheap is that, and getting the product for wholesale is that there's hardly any margins on the selling of the food. They cut out all the middlemen and then what they do is where they make their money is the memberships.  They're not making it on the per item. Like you said, it's the Costco model online. Yeah, no, it's brilliant with Whole Foods, right? So, I mean, you're getting all organic Whole Foods instead of your Costco... Excellent, excellent stuff. Next question is from Taylor24. Can you give any insight on how to read studies? What to look for and how to determine if they are credible? Well, ask the study, man. This is a good... Ask Google magic over there. Study Sal, Professor Sal. Google magic, that's like my... You know what? That's like my name at Burning Man. Google is funny was today. Google magic. Hey, it's Google magic. He's so shiny. You never cease to amaze me with some of the things that you're able to recall. I mean, for listeners, literally I walked in this morning, one of the books, audio books I'm listening to right now is called Subliminal. And I came in to like... I told Sal, I said, man, you would love this book. It's about the unconscious mind and the conscious mind and they totally cite all these studies and I start to tell the study and he finishes the rest of the study.  Like, I don't know how you remember these studies and do you have a source that you go to, that's your go-to spot or are you all over the whole PubMed? Like, where are we talking about here? So I think... I've been thinking about this and I think most of us have this ability. It's just four things that we find super compelling.  Well... Fuck! Well, think about it this way. Think about it this way. I wish it don't work. Think of your hobbies and the things you really love to do the most. You probably know like the different names of whatever, whether it's cars or shoes or clothes or TV shows or quotes from a particular actor or whatever. For me, it's just for whatever reason it studies and it has, there was no value in it whatsoever until I got a podcast. So thank God we have a podcast. Now I can use this totally worthless, you know. Found your purpose. Yeah, it was cool at like parties and stuff and that was it. It's a party. It's good to see them up there with like a smoker's jacket. Just, hey guys, I want to tell you about this microbiome city. Did I read three years ago PubMed? Anybody? Where'd everybody go? Great way to pick up on girls. Hey, did you know blue eyes didn't show up until 30,000 years ago? What? Oh my God. Please share that. That's the truth. That's true, isn't it?  So no, I've heard this before. Okay, so blue eyes weren't always around. No, no, it's a relatively new, I don't know how long ago it was. Maybe it was 30,000 years ago, but it's a relatively new in the whole scheme of things. So what were the common colors? Do you remember all this stuff? No, I don't remember that. I know brown. Oh yeah. It was the most common one. I don't know. And again, it's random.  It's not directed, you know what I'm saying? I can't direct it. So here's the thing with studies. Bits and pieces. This is a good question because you see a lot of sensationalized articles on your social media that will say things like, red wine boosts fat loss. Super biased stuff. Yeah, eat chocolate if you want to gain muscle or a compound in chocolate was found to prevent Alzheimer's or whatever.  And then you share it and you're like, dude, check out the study. It's fricking awesome. What you need to do is you need to look into the study and look at a few things. Controls. Number one, look at the sample size. So that means how many people are in the study? There's four people. You're relevant. They see studies like that. You're good.  Like if I took 10 people from a gym and I sampled them and asked them fitness questions, they're gonna, the answers I'm gonna get aren't gonna really be representative of the population because you all can read. Because less than half the population is working out. So you're not even addressing half of them. That's it. Here's it. And in most studies, I hate to say this, most studies are done on males between I believe the ages of like 20 to 30, like college age or a little older males, white males. So that alone, we're the ones willing to experiment. Well, yeah, willing to experiment. Test on me. In college as projects. That's the only part that people don't understand about studies is most studies that we see that actually get promoted and put out there that are biased. It's cause they're expensive to do. And so it's not like we're running around doing all these great studies on stuff. So when you do see one nine times out of 10.  So it's as biased as it comes. And you can tweak data all over, like however you want.  I'll sell you how it's the worst thing for you ever and I'll sell you how it's the best thing in the world for you. It's easy to spend the data. So sample size is important. How many people are in the study? Is it double blind? In other words, double blind, meaning the study participants don't know that they're the ones that are being, either the control group or the tested group. So in other words, they don't know if they're getting the active ingredient when they're taking the supplement or pill or whatever. It could be whatever. The people giving the test don't know either. That's important because we know that if the, even if you can have an influence, so double blind, meaning nobody knows who's getting what. So it's this big guess. The only people knowing are at the end of the study, we're getting the data. Then there's placebo controlled. Placebo controlled means if we're gonna give someone, if I'm gonna test something like an herb like turmeric and I'm looking at inflammation and I've got 500 people, I'm gonna give 250 of them turmeric and the other 250. Nothing at all that's related to it. Something that looks like turmeric, but isn't. You know, like here's this pill and it's got like sugar in it or something like that. And because. Which is a very bad example because if you're testing for inflammation and you gave sugar pills. Wow, he's levels. Skyrocketing. That's a good point. What the hell's going on in there?  Wow, looks like turmeric lowers blood sugar. Heroin, that's everybody asleep. Yeah, so that's important. Double blind placebo controlled. You wanna see if it's peer reviewed. In other words, has it been reviewed by other people in this field? And then look at the consensus of studies. There's meta analysis where they'll take many studies on this subject and you're gonna see this general trend because one study will point you in a direction but rarely is one study conclusive. It's typically gonna tell you, oh wow, looks like people who take multivitamins tend to live longer, let's do more studies. Let's do more studies. And rarely ever can they duplicate a study exactly the same. So many times even like the best studies is like, okay, take this in generals, right? General speaking, this is what it's like. Each time there's new variables. It's interesting you say that. So even when they make the study as close to as the previous studies possible, and they try to mirror it, even then there's a large minority, but it's not a majority, but still a large percentage. I forgot what it was, something like 20% or something that are not able to be duplicated. So they'll take, what I mean by that is they'll do the same study and the results are different. So they can't find the same results that were found with the first study. That percentage goes up with psychological based studies or behavioral studies. Behavioral studies, I think something like 40% of them, they can't be duplicated. They can't mimic them. So they'll find like, oh, people who listen to this music tend to act this particular way or whatever. Then they copy the study, comes out to listen. Well, now you're getting me excited because this is exactly what I was reading this morning with subliminal, they talk about, that's because like 95% of the information that our brain is downloading is unconscious. Like there's only a small percentage is actually conscious that you're doing. Your eyes are downloading information, absorbing and taking it in. So it's so easy for that to manipulate make you biased on your decision. So when you talk about behavioral science and stuff, this is where this gets crazy. Even with movement, right? They say that like, are you really in control of your movement or does your movement happen and then you perceive it right afterwards? Well, and you could be walking into the study and somebody says something to you that has nothing to do with the study right before and it could influence and change how you react to certain questions. I'll give you an example.  So I'll give you guys an example. I want you right now to imagine the color gray. Just imagine the color gray. Now really quick, think of an animal. And it's likely that you thought of an elephant. Very likely. I almost said donkey. Yeah. It's very, very likely that you thought of an elephant. And it's just, there's lots of these tricks that happen in the brain. Well, we use this in sales. We use this in sales with leading questions, right? When you're leading people into a sale and a close and tying them down by getting them, you're priming them to say yes, right? That's what magicians do. Oh, hey.  But yeah, as far as studies are concerned, they can direct you, look at the consensus, look at the controls. That's another one. How did they control the study? I love to give this example because it's a classic one. It wasn't that long ago, probably 30 years ago or so, that coffee was thought to cause to be a carcinogen. So it's thought that coffee was bad for you because the studies done on coffee drinker showed that they had a higher rate of cancer. The problem was in these studies, they never controlled for cigarette smoking. And 30 years ago, people who drank lots of coffee also smoked a lot of cigarettes. So it's just a basic example. You wanna look at controls, how are they controlling the studies? Look at all these things and then start to form an opinion. But I also don't wanna throw a anecdote. Although anecdote is not evidence, a lot of anecdote points to different directions. And thankfully, because we have technology and we have the internet, we can go on forums, we can read what people are saying. And you can kind of figure things out before studies come out. For example, people have been talking about how artificial sweeteners affect their gut poorly way before the recent studies showing that it negatively affects the gut microbiome. People have been talking about how certain things will affect inflammation in a positive way, way before studies come out saying, oh yeah, they're absolutely right. Eating these particular foods or whatever has good effects on inflammation. Those are all the things you wanna consider.  There you go. I never quote, I never put down the study that people get so mad. What's the source? I get mad when people ask that, expect that. Go do your work.  Ooh, what a research. Yeah, tell me, lazy. All right, next is Mick the plant man. You guys talk about cardio not being a great component of longevity and Ben Greenfield has shared how triathlon training has significantly decreased his telomere length. With that being said, how are the 60 plus year olds crushing it?   It's a hot topic. Yeah, right. So I'll tell you what my telomeres are doing. So this is a great topic. I have no idea. Now telomeres are at the end of your DNA and they are a good signal for aging. So if you have your biological age and then your telomere will tell you how old your body is in terms of it's health or whatever. I feel like before you go further in the science here, I feel like there's going to be a very fine line here that you're talking about. You could easily overdo that and have adverse effects from it too, from other parts, from the running all the time. So you may have some benefits that show like, oh, for longevity, this part of running. And to me- Well, what he's saying is, so Ben Greenfield talked about a decrease, meaning when he trained for a triathlon, his body aged more rapidly. Oh, I thought he was saying he- No, no, no, no, no. That makes way more sense. I was thinking, just sorry, Ben.  No, no, no, no. It decreased- Yeah, no, absolutely. That makes perfect sense. That doesn't conflict with what we've said. No, no, and I don't think he's saying that. I think he's just saying, knowing that, knowing what we say about cardio, knowing what Ben Greenfield said, why is it that we see these 60 plus year olds who are crushing it in these competitions? Well, what's your goal? You can, it doesn't make sense to- He's efficient at that movement. Why'd you pick this question? Well, well- This is not a very good question. I'll tell you- No, I'll tell you what's wrong with it. One, we agree with that, with Ben, like absolutely. And you can be 60 years old and crushing your sport. I mean, we talk about this all the time, but it doesn't mean- Well, this is important because- This doesn't mean optimal health. I think, thank you. It's important- What do they look like?  Well, eating- That's what they look like. Eating and training. You're on that much.  They're just kind of raisin-esque.  You're getting closer to death.  That's what they look like. Well, it's oxidative stress. And it's not just that all skinny raisin people run very long. That's not the correlation here.  When you do that- It makes you look like that. Yes, it makes you look like that. Skinny raisin disease. So, here's the thing. It's a thing. Hashtag. That's a new hashtag we're starting. Training and eating for maximum longevity is not the same as training and eating for maximum performance, and vice versa.  That's a fact. So, I hate to say that, but if you're kind of, you gotta balance the two.  If you're an everyday person that just wants to be fit and healthy, this is something you should look at, because I could push my body and squeeze out into the five pounds of muscle on it. Is it worth reducing my longevity and overall wellness? No, it's not.  Same thing with taking 30 seconds off of your marathon time or whatever. So, you know, consider those two things. Longevity is very different. In fact, when they do studies on the world's blue zones, this is where people live, you have a disproportionate amount of people who live to a hundred or older, more so than the rest of the world. All of their activity, everything they do revolves around moderation. It's all consistent, daily, moderate, low to moderate intensity. Their movement, their activity. Yes, moderate, everything. They don't, none of them are hardcore exercises. None of them are competing in powerlifting. None of them are running marathons and doing CrossFit. They're all just, they're very chill. That's it. They're chill, they're active appropriately. They challenge themselves kind of a little bit on a daily basis, but nothing extreme or hardcore. So yeah, training hardcore, like these 60-year-olds that are crushing it. They literally are crushing it, crushing their back. And they've got the benefit of, you know, they probably eat healthy and they move. So they've got the benefit of that, but then they've got the judgment of overdoing it.  Right, yeah, I know. I think that, and I think somebody who's been running, like, and I know we tease the runners all the time on here, right? Like we're anti-running. Poor runners. I just think that there's so many people in the running camp that think it's the best thing for your body because maybe they've been in the best shape of their lives while they're running. And I think that's mainly where we're always trying to address to people. It's like, no, and I definitely think that somebody who decides to run and make healthy choices of eating is far better off than the couch potato who never exercises and eats potato chips all day long.  The person running themselves to death will probably outlast the person sitting on the couch and eating themselves to death. But both of them are not heading in the best way for longevity for yourself. And that's just the bottom line, but performance is different than longevity. Yeah, and there's quality of life. Like these 60-year-olds who are killing it in triathlon competitions, they probably love what they're doing. They probably have a lot of fun doing it. They're having a blast, you know? Okay, that's cool. Do your thing, man, like, you know. I love ice cream, you know what I mean? Whatever. Terrible analogy. Next. Our next question is from T-Fluid. Top five most functional lifts. Here we go. Let's start with number one. Squat, for sure. What is the number one most functional lift? I think we're all gonna say squat, right? I wonder if we're gonna have to disagree on all these. I don't think we'll disagree on any, but I think everybody will have more. The order, you weigh out. Oh, the order, you wanna go in order? Yeah, let's go in order. So most functional lift? Squat. It's gotta be the squat. For sure. What do you think the second most functional lift? Deadlift? I'm gonna go. Overhead press. I'm gonna go with Zurcher. Think about functionality, everyday behaviors. I see, I screw you on with that, yeah. How often do you walk around in a front loaded carry situation where you have to pick something up off the ground or grasp, to me? Well, they're so similar. I know, I know. But if you're going in order, one, then two, like that, I feel like... You'll outrank deadlifts. Let me take that box and put it up on the shelf. Deadlift is deadpressing. Deadlift is my third overhead press is my fourth. Okay, because I would go barbell squat, deadlift, then I would go overhead press, then I would go bench press, and then here's the problem with number five. I wanna throw something in there that's... Like a lunge? Rotational, though.  Well, you could do a rotational lunge or a multi-planier lunge, and now you're killing it. Yeah, I would say that. Or what about some kind of a row or a pull-up? Well, no, you already, you gotta, when you get your deadlift in there. I guess. Yeah, you get your deadlift in there. I don't know, to me, I go squat. I think we all agree on squat. I go Zurcher squat, even though they're similar. I still think that you gotta get a front-loaded, holding-something type of exercise where they do. I mean, you could combine the Zurcher with a multi-planier lunge to get real functional here. Yeah. You know, like, after you hit the big three or so, I feel like it's kind of like you could do it. Well, I would say goblet squat is very similar to just Zurcher squat, right? Cause it's like you're holding something in, but you're trying to keep, like you're not really gonna be lifting anything that's like much bigger than your body. Well, how about this? Let's go this way. What are the most functional or foundational movements? Because we can name, like, a Zurcher and a deadlift are both kind of hip-hinging, right? Like just the patterns? Yeah, like, what do they say they are? There's like, they're squatting. There's pushing horizontally, pushing overhead. There's pulling horizontally, pulling from overhead. You've got rotation, split stance position, you know, movements. Unilateral. Yeah, unilateral type movements, kind of lateral type movements. You'd have to have something rotational in there. So that's probably the only thing that we missed by all of us cause you gotta have something that's, so we're not stuck in the sagittal plane the entire time.  You know, I give everybody. Here's something controversial that I think we'll agree on, but maybe some people will freak out a little over. What's more functional? Overhead press or bench press? Overhead press. Overhead press? Yeah, all day. And I know a lot of people are gonna argue with that because it's part of the big three. Who argues with that? Just a simple fact that, just a simple fact that one of them, you're lying down on a bench and you can take half of your body out of the equation, already makes it, that's not even a debate to me. Someone tries to debate that. You're not stabilizing your spine like the same way. It's just like, yeah. Anything standing that you're having to do with your feet planted on the ground is gonna become more functional than anything else. And I see it being way more functional at all sports.  Sure in the circus. Exactly, if you were in the circus, that's a functional movement. Otherwise, not very functional. Back in the day, that was a test of strength. It was overhead press, it wasn't. Bench press came in later, much later. Bench press. That's a great one. You want a rotational one. Let's add the bent press for, yeah. So there you go, there's your rotational overhead strength and hip hinge all in one. Yeah, I like that one. Did we make a bent press video for YouTube? Yeah, Justin did. A long time ago. Not long at, long time ago. At the other gym. Oh good, so you can go to our YouTube channel and look up the bent press. It is an old school, extremely functional movement. Old timey. For you bodybuilder types for people who like to develop your muscles. Mind pump TV. It'll give you incredible back and delt development. Watch your back, yeah. It's a delicate movement if you haven't rotated like that before. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maths Anabolic, Maths Performance, and Maths Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. 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f as affordable either put it down at 30 percent or put it at 40 but don't accept an 80 percent of median income as affordable that's embarrassing all right thank you very much thank you we have no additional public speakers on zoom and we have no prerecorded messages thank you we will now proceed to item 18 which is our public comment on non-agenda matters madam say clerk may you please facilitate public comment thank you mayor we are now taking public comment on item 18 non-agenda matters this is a time when any person may address the council on matters not listed on this agenda but which are within the subject matter jurisdiction of the council if you're in council chamber please make your way to the podium if you are participating via zoom please raise your hand or dial star nine i see mr frazier at the lectern i will unmute you yes thank you can i use the projector please certainly one moment while we get it fired up thank you very much i appreciate your patience city council you're working hard appreciate that okay thank you so much eric frazier you know me well and i'm reporting out good grief and the war against short-term rentals as you know you grappled with a short-term rental ordinance and finally today i was able to see this final verbiage i'm sorry my marker isn't my highlighter isn't really showing up very well but did you realize that at the last minute what was inserted in this ordinance that was signed by the vice mayor is that this language right here that the council according to this ordinance will have an opportunity to review it in august 24 but if they decide not to review it or they don't make any changes this chapter shall remain in full force and effect as written now that differs pretty substantially from both the discussion and the information that was forwarded to both the planning commission and the public hearing for the city council this is just yet again another thing to put on our timeline before i was interrupted actually or denied the opportunity to speak during public county public comment during that meeting where the short-term rental ordinance was on a public hearing i was about ready to report out that true to my word i'm getting traction to review santa rosa short-term rental ordinance in a scholarly setting on a national level quite frankly this ordinance is a witch's brew of backroom deals illegal maneuvers last-minute changes abuses of urgency ordinance allowing for people citizens with their unresolved complaints to be turned into flying monkeys to visit their neighbors to assault their neighbors to trespass you know no facts come forward from this ordinance and your findings it's just really quite an atrocious mess but it is a glorious mess because we're going to be able to study it and pick it apart with economists and sociologists and psychologists and the political process and i know it bore some of you here it's been a long meeting i'm sure but you know respect is earned and i'm looking forward to digging deeper about this issue when i read this ordinance and i compare it to ordinance that were constructed during the height of redlining and civil rights violations this is right up there with it you know at the heart of this ordinance if somebody just has a guest one night in their own home and they have a vic deschers neighbor they can be turned into code enforcement and all of a sudden they're liable to all sorts of different penalties including criminal penalties you guys didn't really think about this through you're just responding to your own craft's political needs and i look forward to seeing the end of that good grief thank you thank you um we will be adjourning the meeting but before we do um i would just like to say i would like to adjourn the meeting in the name of bob geyser who worked really hard for us to get the greenway so i'm happy to say that he was alive when that transaction went through and that he spent many many years and he was actually able to see it um come through so again we will be adjourning this meeting in the name of bob geyser and everyone have a great night thank you


Welcome to the Endless Knot Cocktail Bar. Today we're mixing up some Bellini's and talking about the artist, the cocktail, and patronage. The Bellini is a cocktail made from Prosecco sparkling wine and peach puree, invented in Venice by Giuseppe Cipriani, and the story of its name is one of patronage of all kinds. In the 1920s, Cipriani had worked his way up through the restaurant business, eventually finding himself as bartender at the high-class Hotel Europa bar in Venice. In 1929, he got to know one of the bar's regular patrons, Harry Pickering, a young rake with a drinking problem from a wealthy Bostonian family. Pickering had been sent to Venice with his aunt, along with her lover and a pecanese, in an attempt to dry him out. Obviously, the plan failed. Then, one day, Harry stopped showing up at the bar.  Wanting to help his friend, Cipriani asked how much he needed, and Harry replied that he needed enough for one last drink at the bar to pay his bills and to buy his boat ticket home, about $10,000 lira, which was about $500 USD at the time, or around $8,000 today. Cipriani scrounged up the money and Harry set off home. A few years later, in 1931, Harry Pickering returned to Venice, not only with the $10,000 lira to repay the loan, but with an additional $40,000 lira for Cipriani to open his own bar, saying, let's call it Harry's Bar. So, Harry Pickering went from a bar patron to the wealthy patron of a bar. I'll come back to the web of related meanings of the word patron in a bit. Since then, Harry's Bar has become an iconic Venetian landmark, with many famous patrons of its own, including Ernest Hemingway, Charlie Chaplin, Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall, and even many crowned heads of Europe. Giuseppe even named his own son after the bar, and its patron, Harigo, the Italian form of Harry, and he's now the current proprietor of the much-expanded family restaurant and hotel business. At the end of World War II, after the liberation of Venice, Harry's Bar briefly became an unofficial officer's mess for American and British soldiers, but soon after, it returned to its usual clientele of celebrities, which more recently included the likes of Kim Kardashian and George Clooney. Well, sometime between 1934 and 1948, Giuseppe invented the Bellini cocktail by mixing pureed white peaches with the Italian sparkling wine Prosecco, with the original recipe also containing a little raspberry juice for color. Prosecco and peach, by the way, are both toponyms, that is, they come from place names. Prosecco is named after the Italian town near Trieste and close to the border with Slovenia, where the great varietal and wine come from, and in turn, the town's name actually comes from a Slovene word meaning path cut through the woods. Peach comes from the name Persia, as the fruit was called persicon malon, Persian apple in Greek. Giuseppe named the resulting drink Bellini after the Venetian Renaissance artist Giovanni Bellini, because the color of the cocktail reminded him, so the story goes, of the color of a saint's robes in a Bellini painting. Bellini's name, by the way, comes from Italian bello, beautiful, from Latin belas, beautiful, ultimately from the Proto-Indo-European root, Deu, to do, show favor, revere. Cipriani was again inspired by Renaissance art in the naming of another signature recipe from Harry's Bar, Carpaccio, a dish of thinly sliced raw beef served with lemon juice, olive oil, and white truffle or Parmesan cheese. He named this dish after Venetian painter Vittorio Carpaccio, again because the color of the meat reminded him of the rich use of color by the artist. Well, he wasn't wrong. The Venetian School of Painting is particularly known for emphasizing color over line, as opposed to the Florentine School. The story goes that the beef dish was invented for the Countess Amalia Nani Mochanigo, as her doctors had recommended she only eat raw meat. Another well-known recipe to come out of Harry's Bar is the Montgomery Martini, named after British Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery, so called because of its 15 to 1 ratio of gin to vermouth, as Montgomery was purported to have liked a 15 to 1 ratio of his troop to the enemy on the battlefield. During World War II, Montgomery was involved in the invasion of Sicily, then continued to command the Eighth Army into mainland Italy, before being reassigned to Northern Europe for the rest of the war. So, he wasn't in Venice in Harry's Bar at the end of the war, but in North Germany, but let us return to Venice in the Renaissance to look more closely at those Venetian painters. As I said, Venetian painting was known for its vibrant use of color, as well as its subtlety of light, and one reason was its geography. You see, tempera paint, which was water soluble, didn't stand up well in the damp conditions of canal-filled Venice. So, the Venetians were quick to adopt the new oil paints developed in the North in Flanders. The knock-on advantage of oil paint is it allows for those deep colors that Venetian artists became known for through the application of many layers of paint. Oil painting may have been brought to Venice by Antonello da Messina, who was himself influenced by early Netherlandish painting, and along with Leonardo da Vinci was an important influence on the Venetian style. But we'll get back to Leonardo in a minute. At the heart of the Venetian style of painting was the Bellini family. Giovanni's father Jacopo and brother Gentile were also noted painters, as was his brother-in-law Andrea Montaigna, and from Giovanni Bellini's workshop came the well-known Venetian artists Titian and Giorgione. Vittore Carpaccio, who as we saw was also a source of naming inspiration at Harry's Bar, studied under Giovanni Bellini's brother Gentile. Now, one really important thing to understand about Renaissance art is the role of patronage to return to that topic. It's hard to overstate the importance of the role of major patrons like the Medici family in Florence in driving Renaissance humanism by supporting the work of artists, writers, and philosophers. But Renaissance art patronage is a little different from today's patron of the arts, typically invests large sums of money in large institutions. In many ways, the creation of art during the Renaissance was a collaborative effort between patron and artist, with the patron requesting certain content in, say, a painting, and the artist executing that request. This is rather different from the way art collecting tends to work today, in which the collector buys ready-made art, the content of which was solely up to the artist. Even back in the Renaissance, some bolder artists, as we'll see, might quibble about the patron's requests, or even outright refuse the commission if it didn't suit their personal style. But mostly that's how it worked. And patrons would often commission works for public consumption, such as a sculpture for the city or frescoes for the churches, with their private collections often serving as backdrop to their diplomatic and political work. The mutual relationship between patron and artist would benefit the status of both. As an artist, to have your work in the collection of a notable figure would raise your profile, and patrons would wish to collect works from all the big-name artists. Unfortunately, some element of this Renaissance practice is what the modern company Patreon wants to evoke with its name, though in a more grass-roots way, by allowing anyone to financially support artists and creative people, and to become participants in the creative process. Now, while the usual model of patronage in Renaissance Italy was the single commission, sometimes a wealthy family would hire a salaried court artist, as the Gonzaga family who ruled Manchua did. Ludovico Gonzaga had appointed Andrea Montaigne, who you remember was the brother-in-law of Bellini, as court painter. Montaigne became quite close to the family and a good friend of Ludovico's son Federico, and his connection continued as the dynasty was passed down to Federico's son Francesco, being taken in particular under the wing of Francesco's wife Isabella d'Este. Appropriately, perhaps, the word dynasty may be related to Bellini's name, through the Greek dynasthi, to be able, which possibly goes back to the same Proto-Indo-European root. Isabella, whose name, by the way, is not, despite appearances related to Bellini, being instead a version of the Hebrew name Elasheba, which comes into English as Elizabeth, was a remarkable woman, both as one of the premier patrons and as a political figure. She seems to have gained much of her political acumen from her mother Eleonora of Aragon, who had governed Ferrara during the frequent absences of Isabella's father, Ercole d'Este, Duke of Ferrara, and was by some accounts a superior administrator to her husband. In turn, Isabella was able to govern Manchua in Francesco's absence, and when he was taken captive in Venice, Isabella took charge of Manchua's military and successfully defended the city. As she thus earned the reputation of being superior to her husband in administrative and political matters, he was humiliated and furious upon his release, and the two led mostly separate lives from that point. After his death, Isabella again took up the reins of power, serving as regent until her son came of age, and achieved many notable political successes on behalf of Manchua. Isabella had received a good classical education as a child, which sparked her interest in antiquities, and she became an avid collector. In addition, her education and innate intelligence allowed her to take part in the humanist philosophy at the heart of the Italian Renaissance. She had court painter Montaigne produced large allegorical works based on classical mythological themes for her Studiolo, basically her study where she got on with the business of all that Renaissance humanism. She also sought other major artists to paint for her Studiolo, including Montaigne's brother-in-law, Bellini. The lengthy negotiation between Isabella and Bellini, sometimes direct and sometimes through intermediaries, have been preserved. Isabella was a prolific correspondent with many people, and her remarkable letters have fortunately survived. In her negotiations with Bellini, she wanted another large mythological painting, but Bellini was initially reluctant and didn't want to have to work with such a detailed outline. The negotiations continued for nearly a decade, with Isabella forwarding a down payment, Bellini continually delaying working on the painting, renegotiations of the subject, and even Isabella attempting to retrieve her money from the artist and cancelling the commission. In the end, Bellini talked her into settling for a smaller nativity scene, though she continued to suggest adding other figures to the painting, such as John the Baptist, which Bellini balked at. Finally, Isabella was satisfied with the outcome which she hung in her bedroom. The painting is sadly now lost, though some have argued that the composition of the painting may have influenced this adoration of the shepherds usually attributed to Giorgione. Another artist Isabella actively pursued was Leonardo da Vinci. He did indeed draw a portrait of her, which seems to have been preliminary work for a painted portrait, mentioned in their correspondence. But if the painting was completed, it no longer survives. However, it has been suggested that the figure portrayed in Leonardo's most famous painting may have in fact been Isabella. The most widely accepted opinion among art historians is that the Mona Lisa depicts Lisa del Diocondo, the wife of a wealthy Florentine silk merchant, but argument over the possible subjects continues. Speaking of Leonardo da Vinci, in addition to being one of the most important artists of the Italian Renaissance, he was also and ahead of his time inventor and engineer, coming up with plans for things like the helicopter, various war machines, and hydraulic systems. Indeed, at times he was taken on by patrons, not only for his painting, but also for his architectural and engineering work. This was the case in 1502 when he was under the patronage of the notorious Cesare Borgia. At the direction of his equally notorious father, Pope Alexander VI, Cesare went about Romania in northern Italy, conquering territory for himself, and he brought Leonardo along to design fortifications and weapons. Also with Cesare was Nicolo Machiavelli, a civic official in Florence, who had been sent to Cesare for diplomatic purposes and to spy on him to learn of any territorial ambitions he might have in Florence. One outcome of the contact between Leonardo and Machiavelli, both Florentines, was the daring scheme to steal the River Arno. Yes, steal a river. You see, the River Arno runs through Florence and then on to their rival city Pisa. So the plan was to weaken Pisa by diverting the river away from the city. The plan was unsuccessful, but the conjunction of these two important renaissance minds may not end there. Leonardo and Machiavelli seemed to have been influential on each other, with one scholar suggesting that Leonardo's scientific thinking inspired Machiavelli to essentially create modern political science in his most famous work, The Prince, which, by the way, was read by Isabella d'Este. It's because of this work that we use the term Machiavellian to describe underhanded political machinations. You see, Machiavelli, who was also inspired by Cesare Borgia's brutal tactics, took a very pragmatic approach to wielding power, suggesting that a ruler shouldn't keep his word if doing so would undermine his best interest and that it's better for a ruler to be feared than loved. Another claim that is sometimes made of Machiavelli is that he saw patronage as an effective tool of political control, as a kind of propaganda, and though I don't think he's quite that explicit, he does often write about how a ruler should seem to be good, seem to be generous, and so forth, making a distinction between seeming and reality. Furthermore, he wrote that a prince should always show his esteem to talent, actively encouraging able men and honoring those who excel in their profession. It does indeed sound like an endorsement of carefully calculated patronage. And when one thinks of Italian rulers who were good at using artistic patronage for political ends, one figure who certainly comes to mind is Rome's first emperor, Augustus, who is, by the way, probably the source of the term prince to mean ruler, as in Machiavelli's book title, because he styled himself Princapschivitatis, first man of the state, and the term Princaps, first taker from Primus plus Capara, became the title of the emperor for the first 300 years or so of the Roman Empire. Augustus came to power through civil war and presided over a major change in government, from Republic to Empire, so he had a lot of PR work to do. He famously enlisted the support of a number of poets, in particular Virgil and Horace, whose works praising him and supporting his policies, subtly or explicitly, were crucial in shaping his public image. And he did this via his friend Mycenus, whose patronage of these famous poets, memorialized in their works, led to his name becoming an actual term for patron in several languages. Some classical scholars, writing just before and after the Second World War, went so far as to call Mycenus Augustus' Minister of Propaganda, comparing him to Goebbels, who had that role in Hitler's government, taking us back to World War II and Montgomery and Harry's Bar. But Mycenus didn't hold anything like an official role as Minister of Propaganda. Instead, he worked within the long-established Roman tradition of patronage, just focusing on poets and writers. Roman patronage was a system in which wealthier and more influential families helped out people from the lower rungs of Roman society, with loans, dowries, gifts, and legal representation, in return for political and military support. The more powerful person was the patronus, meaning defender, protector, advocate. Presumably this led JK Rowling to use the Latin word in her famous spell, expecto patronum, literally, I await my protector, which is derived from Latin Pater, going back to the Proto-Indo-European root Pater, which, through the Germanic branch, also gives us father. There's a complex web of meanings here that all have to do with the underlying relationship. As we saw before, a patron can not only refer to a wealthy benefactor, but also a customer of a bar and restaurant. And the verb form patronize can mean to be a customer, but also to act condescendingly towards someone, implying a power imbalance and pseudo-parent child relationship. The importance of this father role to the way Roman upper classes saw themselves is evident in a number of other terms derived from Pater. Like patrician, nobo, patres conscripti, another name for the senators who made up the governing body of the Republic, and patre patriei, father of the fatherland, an honorific awarded for notable service to the state, to people such as Cicero and Augustus. The governing class of Rome saw themselves as fathers to the rest of the citizens, and the patron, in return for his father-like protection, expected loyalty from his client. The word client comes from Latin clians, either from the verb clura to listen, follow obey, from the same Proto-Indo-European root as listen, and clinar to incline bend from the same root as English lean. And ironically, the word clientele, a group of regular clients of a business, now means much the same thing as patrons, in the sense of people who regularly patronize, visit, and establishment. But it wasn't just poor Romans who had patrons, even members of the upper classes would exchange favors for support. However, they didn't like being called clients, or to call someone their patron, because that made them seem too low status. So a whole euphemistic language of friendship, amichitia, was developed. Amichitia is derived from the Latin verb amare to love, from which we get the word amorous, and ultimately goes back to Proto-Indo-European am, the base of various relationship words including English aunt, like that Pecanese-wielding relative of Harry Pickering. It was that language of friendship that Virgil and Horace used to refer to their greater friend, Mycenaeus, and his greater friend, Augustus, who was by this time the principal benefactor, another word related to Bellini's name, meaning literally doer of good, from the Latin adverb bene, well, ultimately from that same Proto-Indo-European root, of the entire Roman citizenry. And this connection between friendship and patronage brings us back to Harry's bar, a product of a friendship that turned one kind of patron into a different kind of patron. And so, now that we're back at the bar, it's time to make one of those famous Bellinis. This is a very simple recipe, from one part peach puree to two parts Italian prosecco. Pour the prosecco carefully into the puree, stir gently. We froze some local Ontario peaches back in the summer, so we're using yellow peaches, not white, since that's what's available here, so the color isn't perfectly Venetian, but it's still delicious. Now, if you'd like to know more about Renaissance artists and how patronage was involved in kicking off the Italian Renaissance in Florence, head over to my friend Amor Schiendi's channel for his video on the Contest for the Commission for the Doors of the Florentine Baptistry. It's a fascinating story. Thanks for watching. If you've enjoyed these etymological explorations and cultural connections, please subscribe and click the little bell to be notified of every new episode. And, if you'd like to patronize us, check out our Patreon, where you can make a contribution to help me make more videos. I'm at alliterative on Twitter, and you can read our website, alliterative.net, for more language and connections in our podcast, blog, and more.


Our Deputy Political Editor, Michael Park, in details, a bizarre performance at the Internet Mana launch. Pam Corkherey struggling with media relations. We've talked about homeless staff arts...don't be a creep! We've talked about jobs today, and people living in poverty. You want to interview Kim who did say no interviews About a 19-year-old story, you work in news, you puffed up little sh**. An unexpected reaction to requests to ask.com about comments in a speech at today's internet mana party launch. And I hacked our German credit rating system and put our Prime Minister's credit rating to zero because I didn't like the guy. And you have all figured by now there's another Prime Minister I don't like. He actually left questions about his possible connections to the mystery whale dump hacker, but getting clarification proved difficult. He can just come out and address the question. He said three times, I don't want to give you an interview. He's not a candidate. He doesn't owe you anything.  At that point, Kim.com's whisked away by his security guards to a waiting vehicle. Can we just ask you about the, you can't stop us going through a gate. You can't put hands on us, mate. Such was Kim.com's eagerness to avoid media that he was ushered into a different vehicle to the one he arrived, not the black Mercedes that he travels to almost every event in.


The Appalachian Advantage Plan is the simpler, better way to get the phone you actually want instead of paying hundreds of dollars up front.  It's called the Appalachian Advantage, available at Appalachian Wireless. The 41st Jenny Wiley Festival will kick off October 5th in downtown Prestonsburg. The festival will feature local craft vendors, rides and live entertainment each night. The Jenny Wiley Festival kicks off this Wednesday actually, so you'll be able to start enjoying the carnival rides. We have Blue Grass Night starting on Wednesday and then on Thursday we have Gospel Night, Friday Rock Night and then Saturday are headliners. We have Josh Shepard, Georgia Thunderbird and Black Hawk. The Jenny Wiley Pioneer Festival is the longest continuous running festival in eastern Kentucky and is free to attend. The festival will also feature a car show, cornhole tournament and a parade. Yes, so everything is going to be right here in downtown so it's super easy to navigate which is one of my favorite things about this festival is right here behind me. We have the craft set up so you can come through and those where the home made specialties are and then we have regular shopping right down in the parking lot plazas where all the food is across the way to the carnival and the music as well and so that's what I really like about this festival is you don't have to go all over the place searching for what you want. Everything really is put together in a really seamless fashion. For a full schedule of events, visit JWFestival.com. For Mountain Top News, I'm Brianna Robinson.


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