We have a few team members that could not make it today. One of them was ill for COVID. One of them couldn't make it because they're in the UK. So we're going to try to do our best to cover for them. So apologize if it's a little bit rocky here. There exists an age-old trade-off between having good abstraction and having the absolute best possible performance. One of the key benefits of Kubernetes is abstraction, making it easier to scale out applications using a cloud-native approach. Today, in our shorthanded panel, we will be discussing the usage of Kubernetes in telco and edge where workloads are highly latency and throughput sensitive and also jitter sensitive, and have historically been scaled up using techniques to squeeze every last bit of process and network performance out of the computers. The need for speed, the need for low latency, and the need for scale cause developers to adopt Kubernetes to deploy workloads onto compute but bypass Kubernetes networking. Instead, connectivity to carry edge and telco network is done largely with expensive routers and SR-IOV, single-root IO virtualization. This allows edge and telco to be deployed as containers and pods onto standard server infrastructure using Kubernetes, but they are not interconnected and scaled out using native Kubernetes networking. Last year at KubeCon 2022, several of our presenters, not including me, held a similar panel on how optimized software and new hardware accelerators, DPU and IPU, can be used to accelerate Kubernetes networking underneath the existing abstraction of Kubernetes networking. What is running in the containers does not change except that they experience a much faster lower latency network. Our panel today is applying this concept to edge and telco workloads. So this is the panel, me and Nabil. My name is Ian Coolidge. I work at Google Cloud on Google Distributed Cloud. Nabil's from Bloomberg. And I'll be covering the motivating use case of telco. And Nabil will be covering the value of offload, the value of standardization. And then we'll be presenting a video on Nupur's section. Of course, the graphic does not render. OK, I don't know why the graphic is not rendering, but it's basically just a nick with some virtual functions. So SROV has been used for years to help containers and virtual machines believe that they are experiencing the use of a single network card and also allowing them to get direct access to the PCI bus so they can bypass kernel networking, typically using DPDK to achieve high throughput low latency requirements. The problem with SROV is that many details of the hardware leak up into workload orchestration. This is a blow up of the SROV network node resource. I forget what it's called from the SROV network operator. And it's got a couple of fields that are always peculiar to the particular nick that you're deploying. So Intel has a nick or Melanox has a nick. There's always some valid combination of these fields that works for that particular nick. But more importantly, the major problem with SROV is that it doesn't let you use these powerful Kubernetes networking features like network policies or service load balancing. Instead, you have to roll your own stacks for these kind of things or just not get them. Some smaller nitpicks on specific to the implementation of SROV network operators that to change the configuration of a node requires the workloads to be drained from the node. And also various network cards have different techniques or implementation within SROV network operator to enable SROV in the first place. So like, for example, with the Melanox nick, there's a MST config program that gets included in there and it gets run automatically and everybody's happy. But with Intel nick, the same functionality is not included. So you have to do it yourself. When carriers are looking to cloudify their RAN or core networks, what they're really trying to do is modularize infrastructure. Kubernetes is the system to do this. Using Google distributed cloud as an example, we provide managed Kubernetes infrastructure to allow telco customers to have Kubernetes network, to have Kubernetes throughout all different areas of their network, from the radio access network to the core network to public cloud. They get the same experience all the way through. With this modularity goal in mind, ultimately we need to aspire to have fungible cloud environment where applications are not sensitive to the exact machinery or network cards that they're running on. This enables networks to become truly cloud where workloads are portable and transferable to different areas. For example, an operator could easily spin up a UPF between public cloud and on-prem without having to worry about what network card is being deployed on the machine or if SROV is supported at all. Nibil? Thanks, Sayin. So what I'm going to talk about really is the offload. So what we'll do first, we'll just quick refresher of what offload means. And then we'll talk a bit about the control plane, what we're talking to do and what we've done so far and then share some experimental results that demonstrate the value of offload and we'll conclude with some goals related to this part of the presentation. So as just a refresher, what we mean by offload usually is offloading packet processing as well as some control plane functions from the host CPU to the hardware or to the NIC. In general, these are, we'll talk about DPUs, IPUs in here in this context because they have basic processing, usually an arm cluster that allow you to do control plane processing in addition to hardware offload for the data plane functions. Example of things that we'd like to do in hardware basically is policy enforcement, encryption, load balancing, some statistics in addition to, as I said earlier, network control planes such as BGP for example, being offloaded to the DPU, IPU in the context of Calico as an example. And I'll use Calico in here because some of the experiments that I'm gonna share a bit later are based on Calico. Some solutions that exist in the marketplace for DPU, IPU come from several vendors and here are examples, Intel IPU. This is a product that's available for Intel, as it says, AMD, Pensando, DPU as well as NVIDIA. So why are we doing this? What are the drivers, what we're trying to achieve? Some of these we could consider them to be drivers or anticipations of the value that we could derive from offload. If you look at the origin of these graphs, we have kind of the origin being host-based, basically everything being done at the host CPU, nothing offloaded. And then what we're trying to achieve really or try to demonstrate and therefore prove the value for is where the offload is. So we're anticipating that there will be basically performance optimization across multiple dimensions along power or total power. That's what I wanna put in because some people anticipate that the DPUs, IPUs, rightly so, are gonna use more power. But it's not about the component power but the total power on the server. The other dimension is security. How can we improve security as a result of offloading certain functions to the DPU, IPU and throughput? That's what accelerators really give you. The other dimension is really total CPU cost saving. The host CPUs are generally being made to really for application processing. So use them for the best thing that they're made for. That's really what that is. So how could we offload CPU cycles from doing network functions, if you will, such as policy enforcement, forwarding, statistics collection and so forth, to the hardware, to the DPU, IPU, and save the CPU cycles for application processing. And the other dimension is really the total cost. So that cuts you on multiple dimension, whether it's power, real estate, density of compute and so forth in a given real state. Some of these, as you'll see later, we kind of conducted experiment that show value. Some of the others are still at least and pretty kind of even-handed comparison. We're still trying to show the value for or not, right? So it's about proving value, really. So let's start in here. We presented this slide last year during a similar plan that we've done at KubeCon in Detroit. The aim in here is really to hit the security, basically. We are looking at the target architecture for the control point integration between what will happen between the compute slash network control plane that usually we refer to as the SDN solution and a server or a physical host that will have DPU, IPU plugged into it. The point is the intention here is not to go through all the slide in detail, but to say the path in here to come from the control plane through a trusted path, which is not running workload, the basic application workloads. So we'll come through the DPU, IPU, and then we really kind of control the instantiation and the workloads and observe what's being instantiated from the trusted domain to the less trusted domain, which is the host CPU. And therefore, there are integration that have to happen between the control plane running on the host CPU and the control plane running in the DPU together with the control plane of the compute, like Kubernetes control plane master, as well as the SDN control plane, like what we could have with Calico and any other solutions. So that was the target, what we've done, we've done an implementation. This is still within our four walls, if you wanna put it that way, where we started that journey. And the initial journey we didn't do the full offload, but rather what we aimed to do that integrate the current way in which Kubernetes and Calico run basically mainly with their components on the host CPU and try to develop what's needed to offload the data plane functions to the DPU, IPU. So in that journey we developed our seven agents that end up doing that integration that allow you to offload the forwarding plane to offload, meaning the Fib in particular, that will be learned in the control plane on the host CPU. So we wanna offload that Fib to the data plane on the DPU, IPU. And the other one is to offload the policies. And I'm gonna talk about policies in here. We also looked at encryption and we'll look at that as well from experimental results. That when we say the data plane in here, obviously on the DPU, IPU, there is what we call a networking as slow path. If you wanna put that way or compute complex that's usually the unprocessed. So we do that integration between the control plane. That's what you see in yellow. These are the agents that we implemented to kind of splice the control plane between the DPU, IPU and the host CPU so that we could exchange that information to be programmed in the hardware. Once we get it to the control plane in the DPU, IPU on the arm, then we offload it to the ASIC on the DPU, IPU. And that's where the actual forwarding path is and the policy enforcement is happening in the hardware. So we use this architecture basically to conduct an experiment using Calico. Doesn't have to be Calico, but in this case we use Calico. So this is very basic experimental setup where we had two service interconnected via 25 gig. We have a source running in a pod and another pod running basically in here IPERF. And you see in here two colors, red and yellow that I wanna call out. What red is really relate to application level processing and what yellow is related to the network layer processing in the host kernel. Basically think about this way. And this is very important because what we're trying to look at that how much of the CPU cycles on the host is taken by the application, which if you remember I said this is really what the CPUs are meant for and which portion of the CPU if you will is taking up by the network layer processing. And that's really what I wanna call out. So this is a basic experiment that was done. Again in here there are many, much more data behind this and many more other experiments. But that shows an example where we had Calico. You see Calico running on the host. This is today Calico with the IPERF. Calico offloaded and then we generated the DOS attack. So this is basically a single flow for which we're measuring performance. That's what you see in the blue triangles that you see in here and the performance in here is throughput in particular. That's what you see in the blue triangle. And what I want to call attention to the network layer processing in the kernel, which is the yellow versus the application layer processing that's done in the red. So when we have everything done and the Calico on the host, you can see good amount of the full CPU core is taking up this is measured in CPU cores. So it's taken up by the network layer basically. That's the yellow. And about 90% of the second CPU core is being taken up by the applications and total we achieve roughly about 19 gigabit per second under the experiment that we had. We offloaded some of that stuff. We basically decreased about roughly about 10% the network layer consumption of CPU on the host CPU and we increased a little bit the application processing. And this very single case where we have a single flow. Now what we did, we ended up generating large number of flows about 250K flows per second considering to be an attack but there could be a large number of flows anyhow being generated whether legitimate or not. But in here the action was to drop them therefore the attack part. And as you see in the third in the third bar as you're looking at it on the right which says Calico host under DOS the CPU network layer processing had jumped up to 100% the application was available for the application had reduced had shrunk from 90% to about 50% or so. But more importantly you see the good put of that workflow that's legitimate had dropped from 19 gigabit to about seven gigabits. And that's the negative fact that you see. When we offload the control plane function, sorry the data plane function of policy enforcement L3, L4 policy enforcement to the hardware we regain actually the application processing so you can see that most of the red jumped up became more dominant than the yellow. That's really application layer processing and we restored back the good put for that legitimate flow to 19 gigabit per second. That's kind of an example where offload could become very useful. So really the general observation that there is consistent results that were observed across this experiment and other experiments for packet forwarding and packets per second under attack or legitimate traffic. And as a function of the number of flows per second this is the flow rate that we call. There is efficient utilization of host CPU because the host CPU is spending more time and doing application layer processing and less time doing control layer processing sorry network layer processing. And then as an observation although we didn't show it in here there are different approaches today to do the network solution. One of them is based on OVS, Calico is another and so forth. Some of these approaches are based on what we call packet driven data plane data plane programmability. So for example in OVS you wait for the first packet and the control pane for OVS will have kind of what needs to be done for a given flow but or for a given characteristics of the flow. When it sees the first packet it programs the flow in the data path and from there on you start exercising whatever actions you want on that flow whether processing or packet drop or Allah or whatever it is you exercise at that point in time. So that's really programmability of the data plane driven by the first packet comes in. Whereas control plane programmability is driven top down if you're from the control plane and that's what we do in Calico. And the observation is that control plane basically driven approach to programming the data path yields often better results in total and we could talk about that on the side after this meeting if anybody is interested in that. The other experiment that we looked at is really the value of encryption. Encryption is pretty costly operation when it's done in software even when you have the DNS set basically where you have the instruction set from some of these CPUs like the Intel CPUs. So most of the experiment that we conducted we conducted with and without EAS IN basically so that we look at the performance and we looked also at the offload of the encryption to the DPU IP in this case. So there is a system under test in here basically a pod that's running a traffic generator and we had NGNX running in the context of VM that's the system under test. What we've done is that we've initiated couple of sessions at a time. On each session we made up to 1000 requests and we repeated that over 25 seconds and we repeated those tests over 30 seconds to get statistically significant results and that's what I'm gonna show in here. What I wanna call your attention in here this is a lot of data being generated as you can see on the x-axis. This is the encryption result as a function of the file size being transferred and what we're measuring in here is throughput relative to CPU utilization. So this is really what you're achieving in throughput relative to how many CPU cycles. As you could see the larger the file transfers maybe really the longer the session duration is and that's what I wanna call back in the gray and I'll talk about KTLS and so forth what they mean but in the gray you see the gray compared to the blue as the file size that being transferred over that connection increases you get much better if you will incrementally more better performance with the offload to the point that you get at one file size about twice the throughput that you get with offload compared to host-based encryption if you want to put that way and that's to the far right hand side. As you notice we focus on encryption because that's really what we aimed to really to look at at what performance it shows what kind of performance improvement or not right? So we start with the neutral position if you will with anticipation that we'll have better performance when we're offload. We used in this case KTLS or TLS in general so we looked at user plane TLS we looked at kernel-based TLS as well as KTLS offload as a means to look at encryption obviously the encryption could also apply to IPsec so the value in here is about encryption not about whether TLS or not but we use TLS as to do the testing in here as a conduit for this testing. Then the other way we look at it as transactional so how many requests can you do for given set of for given CPU cycles? Again as you see in here as the file sizes grow then we get better performance again compared to the grade to blue but also when we have very short transactions you could see that user plane becomes much more becomes more performance if you wanna put that way and the reason for that because there is overhead and trying to setting up the session in the hardware so the more the shorter the duration the more flows you have and therefore you're spending overhead in programming the data plane although like you're not using for too long and that's really where the performance comes in so the longer the duration of the TLS session the better off you are usually. So what are we aiming to do from here? Really in here so I showed you an example of a target that we're aiming for and what we've implemented so far but in general this you could call it as goals as well as call co-action to really enable GPUs, IPUs in standardized way what we need to really look at is how do we integrate the compute and network control plane for the GPUs and the IPUs to achieve trust or security to achieve performance as well to offload the control plane functions and coordination with the control plane functions between the host CPU and the GPU IPU and finally this is one of the data plane functions which is policy programmability to drive for it to be control driven. The other thing while we're talking about Kubernetes in here not at all endpoints and a lot of environments are containers basically but we have a lot of cases where we have bare metal MVMs so the idea in here is to try to enable that also for these type of endpoints which goes beyond just container workloads but also to bare metal MVMs. So what's happening in the standard today to enable that and this is a slide from our colleague Vipin who could paint it today with us there is an effort in OPI going on right now for the focus on the GPU IPUs one of the major initiative there they have is really on the life cycle management because some people look at these as systems inside a lot of the systems so you have a server as a system and then you have the GPU IPU inside it so which has its own usually network interface as well as its own CPU complex and you need to really manage software on it and you need to manage the life cycle of that. So the OPI is looking at that there are a set of APIs being developed also in OPI. DPTK is another set of tools that have been standardized and there is work going on today in P40C. This is work that's happening in a working group and being looked up to be carried with an OPI for standardization. You have this slide that are referenced to this material and what the body OPI is doing in this particular case a relation to the things that you could take a look at. So, Ian, back to you. Yeah, so next we have the first section. My name is Dupur, I work for Intel IPU team. Speakers before me have touched upon Kitas enhancement features, performance gains on specialized hardware and need for standardization. So where do we go from here? We have these two open source efforts going on at Pellet that has somewhat interdependent to bring in cloud native approach while benefiting from hardware acceleration. Let me go over some and explain how. One of the proposals in Kubernetes enhancement is for an agent model where agent runs in a pod. It does not rely on CNI countless but gathers all required data for Kubernetes APIs by watch of objects. This agent implements role-based access and control provides for loose applying and it could obstruction point for supporting various hardware vendor SDKs. The hardware SDK API is generally club functionalities like hardware provisioning, rule of thoughts, PFEF reset function starts and others. The second basic one is related to networking. It addresses multiple network attachments to a pod. This is required for edge clouds for segregating control and data plane traffic. For instance, the F1C and F1U interfaces between EU and EU. This proposal introduces two new objects, pod network and pod network attachment. These two objects with parameters and provider would enable agent to identify uniquely and assign the hardware device functions to the pods. NPDK based CNFs use devices like SRIOV for meeting the stringent performance and latency requirements of various 3GPP service types. These need abstraction and cloud native approach. Today, these are done through device plugins. This fact that is not address fully is draining of these devices on termination of a pod. There are proposals from the community to use health check and readiness failures from the applications to be redirected to traffic. For this to work, it has to be done in conjunction with hardware SDK APIs that clean up flow rows and call function level resets for proper queue draining. This brings to IPDK.io Kubernetes offload recipe using the proposals mentioned earlier. Recipe leverages this agent model to offload networking flows to P4 data plane. It has been done using Calico CNL as implementation supports external airplane. The offload includes service load balancing, network policies, which are switching and routing on primary network. The hardware generated stats at flow and connection level give visibility into every flow and number of connections per end points for intelligent Turing. With the help of community, we have to bring service implementation on non-primary networks too. We are working towards standardization of agent and manager components through OPI. Model allows for keeping the vendor SDK step completely abstracted and running on trusted IP domain. Agent follows the role-based access and control semantics that's bringing key security controls in access to hardware SDK and resources. With the recipe benefiting from hardware acceleration, offloads, adaptive device queues, quads and congestion control, we can meet the 3GPP KPI requirements for edge cloud deployments while enforcing security of various tiers of networking. The added benefit can be seen by uploading compute intensive flows like IP6 to hardware, keeping latency slow and freeing up course. Intel supports node feature plugin to advertise features like supported instruction sets, our DMA look-aside inline encryption and other node labels so that these functions can only be enabled on the nodes that support it. The word is ongoing to get all the device drivers upstream to the kernel. Intel is also working with wider TPTK community to bring in more drivers for the next generation of Intel networking devices. My name is Dan Daly from Intel and I'm so sorry that I'm unable to meet with you today. I got COVID, wasn't able to travel, but what I wanted to do was summarize some of the points that were made in our panel and also talk about where we go next. So if you look at the types of things that all of our different panelists brought up, Ian talked about having multiple networks, being able to drain traffic as it has gone through SRIOV and having security built into the system. Those three items are already in progress both in the Enhanced Kubernetes projects and also in this working example that we have on IPDK which is part of OPI. And so we're working through these items one by one, see how we can get them to work, see how we can make sure that we preserve those abstractions so that the end workload doesn't have to change. It can still remain SRIOV, it can still remain to use the Kubernetes networking that's already taking advantage of but it gets that faster network, gets that lower latency so that you can expand the set of workloads that can run on top of it. And then what Nabil was talking about is are these benefits of these new devices as you go beyond optimized software, you can actually have these hardware, DPUs and IPUs that give you even better performance, lower latency and can start to integrate these functions that are usually very expensive and software like crypto into your pipeline and be able to get that at a hardware level of performance. And these are also things that we have been integrating into IPDK and also things that are part of these Kubernetes enhancements going forward. And then once we get there, we need to be able to have it be standard so that you're still buying into the Kubernetes ecosystem and not having to use any specific interfaces for a particular NIC or device or special software solution. And so what we have found in IPDK is that Calico is offering this data plane API, which we think is a great starting point for being able to standardize not just the interface for the applications, but also the interface for the folks deploying these clusters, maintaining them over time. And so that brings us to where should we go next is that these enhancement proposals have already started to come out and they give us some very important features that we need to be able to accelerate this network. We need to be able to enable these applications to continue to have multiple networks so you can separate your Edge or Telco workload connectivity from the regular connectivity into the pod. And we need to be able to have, allow people to use their existing CNIs but also have the CNIs enable this agent model so the CNIs can report to an optimized data plane such as VPP or DPU-IPU to tell it, hey, there's a new route, there's a new policy, there's a new endpoint, so we can accelerate that when it's available. And we wanna take all those concepts that are being proposed and bring them into a working example. So we have open source code being developed in the open that you can use to see if that works for your acceleration solution of choice and also be able to run it with your real workloads and see the benefit of this acceleration in your system. And then once we have that working example running, there is a community that's being built around open, programmable infrastructure called OPI which IPDK is a part of. And this is where we wanna standardize a lot of these different data plane APIs that can be used not just for Kubernetes but for other environments, different control planes that should all end up using the same kind of constructs for routing and forwarding, load balancing, things like that. And so to summarize, we're making great progress here but we wanted to bring this forum to you to be able to bring it to your attention of what the potential is. And I'm gonna give it back to the lucky gentlemen who are actually there with you in person to summarize and bring us home. Thank you so much and have a good conference. Yes, thanks Dan. Hopefully it's clear that offloading Kubernetes networking paves the way for fungible telco cloud workloads with performance parity of optimized systems. Thank you everyone.


Team keep it clean sometimes to really appreciate something in this presence You got to go back to its past and that's exactly what we did this morning because I was just thinking like man Geno stone is having an amazing season and he hasn't even started every game But when he has started he's made a big impact I was watching the punchline podcast last night and it was talking about what every game with Geno stone has a pick The Baltimore Ravens one and is that a coincidence? Hey, who knows? But you know don't keep getting picks and when you get a pick of it a guarantee of Ravens win But anyway, um, I was just thinking about you know stone like ma'am His career has just been a wild trajectory because of course he was drafted by the Ravens and then Ravens end up cutting them He went to the Houston Texans and Ravens brought him back and then he was a free agent and Ravens brought him back again And now he is balling and he like wasn't even guaranteed this opportunity But it happened because Marcus Williams ended up getting hurt. So I was just thinking I was like, you know what? Let me um, let me look back at seeing what team keeping clean was saying about Geno stone when he got drafted So I went to our video from April 25th of the year 2020 and it's called the Ravens draft I was safety Geno stone and I was just scrolling through the comment section and I was looking at everybody was so one person said this dude on tape is the real deal He's definitely gonna make the team. So okay, somebody else said great instincts a hitter and smart However, he has average safety speed He ran a four six played a lot of zone and has some bad moments in man coverage Can we scheme him into a package and allow him to diagnose plays and jump them value pick but a developmental project? Well, we see how he's developed over time But that stood out to me because he said hey, he has average safety speed now on here when Geno gets a pic I would be making fun of him, but Geno stone still a baller though, man We've been making fun of how Geno stone you look you look this way ain't the fastest safety in the world But like this guy he was on the money with it Somebody else said he's making the roster.  They they wouldn't they knew something Somebody also asked oh engraving.  And I must have been talking about food in the video. But anyway, uh, somebody else said I keep hearing He's good. Not the most athletic but good ball skills and good football instincts. That's spot on That that's really spot on about Geno stone Geno stone is in a great position Geno stone is a great player. He catches interceptions and plays with leverage He can play in the NFL do was a ball at Iowa loved that pic Look at that. Somebody else said solid tackler very good pic probably my favorite pic He's a very smart instinctive safety. This kid can play I expect him to make the 53 man roster Way to rebound Eric Dacosta. Somebody said it's a steal This part right here. I said geno stone has only allowed nine first downs in coverage since 2017 According to pro football focus. That's the fewest in college football He was also graded as a second round prospect by pff. Okay confirming that part that I said um Oh, I was saying back then and in this video I was like because we had Earl Thomas at the time. I think we had um Anthony Levine at the time he had uh, Deshaun Elliott at the time too So I was saying that geno stone probably he might make the practice squad He might be on a practice squad Uh, because Raven just had depth and safety. Uh, but somebody said he won't be on a practice squad He's a problem. He'll be playing in the dying packages Hey It took some time, but look look what we're here now So this is just great to see somebody say steal of the draft Um, good point. Geno is in a great spot and I already like his playing college. This is a good pick Um, somebody else said watch this man's tape man. He's definitely going to be on a 53 man roster. He has amazing instincts Uh, I absolutely love this kid man. High IQ type player high energy Seaball get the ball type of guy. He will be a starter here in a few years He is another Chuck Clark, but more athletic in my opinion You heard that part not not the last part But the first part, uh, he will be a starter here in a few years This was three years ago. This was three years ago. So he was spot on man. He was spot on Uh, so I I love it. He said, um Let's see what else did they say they said about him? Uh, he said Oh, somebody said move him to outside linebacker. Maybe okay.  Uh, but anyway, I love that pick. He's a smart guy. Um, The oh, this was my favorite one right here by black panther one zero one three Somebody said this guy is ed read junior They said that about geno stone three years ago. They said this guy is ed read junior And now look he got the same record that every got five interceptions to eight games. They like hey Hey All geno stone got to work on now. He just got to start running some laps and so you got to get the speed up That's all you got to do because he he'd be getting the picks and and that that's the most important thing But now if he could add to returning them to But getting them That's that's good enough for now because that turns the ball over that takes away points from the opposing team's Offense and that gives your offense another opportunity to go down the field and score So just shout out to geno stone, but I just really um this video was to Not only highlight geno stone and and to highlight the people who they knew they they they saw something They knew it and they called a lot of the stuff that's going on right now It was to highlight geno stone and just the amazing season that he's been having thus far and again when we keep saying Marcus Williams, I don't think he's gonna play tomorrow, but even when he comes back Geno stone got to be out on the field 24 set do not Geno stone can't come off the field Ravens. You cannot take him off the it's too late It's too late. You can't take him off the field man Marcus Williams. He My opinion Not that there's necessarily backups. I know. Yeah, Ravens going to have three safeties on the field and whatnot So all of them are going to be out there. Geno stone Marcus Williams. Kyle Hamilton, but now Marcus Williams needs to be lower than geno stone on the depth. Hey, it's a tough business, but Like yeah, anyway, uh, but yeah, they'll both be out there both be dropping back and whatnot in the cup Yeah, so all three of them will be out there and Kyle Hamilton, you know, he'd be in a box He'd be a slot.  Why are you not playing in NFL? um and I just hate hearing stuff like that some people try to discredit fans because a fan may have never played a lick of uh Of literally High school or college or professional like and they'll they'll discredit them I just don't like seeing that not that that's me right there I never never never played organized football not a date in my life not at all Uh, the only thing I played with street football with my friends and stuff never played organized football not at all If people could discredit me or they want to I don't mind when they discredit me But because half the time I don't know what I'm talking about anyway But if I just hate seeing other people discredit it I don't like seeing that. Um, it it just really it's something that just really always bothered me. Um, because I It just made me feel like It was other people trying to make themselves feel better or feel greater or make themselves almost intimidate people Wasn't uh, oh, you never played in football.  Then you don't know what you're talking about Come on man No, man, that's I ain't like that. But just going back I am glad to have looked back to that video and being like wow, man Like team keeping y'all was spot on spot on And it was just so nice to see it was refreshing.  I know Ravens draft Iowa Geno stone and Yeah, man, it's it's just nice and you can scroll through the comments yourself and you can look at all that and be like, wow They got it It got now the the roll to get here again It was a little rocky because again geno stone they drafted them today like hold up They cut it y'all know but and it it took some time, but He made it and he's making it And and now geno stone Is getting ready and i'm happy for him too I just I love seeing this with people in my personal life I love seeing people because I don't know to have for these Baltimore Ravens. I know who they are But I don't know them Well a couple of but I don't know them like that But anyway, I'm always happy to see um when people they're getting ready to make a big jump A big jump in life. Um and geno stone has made a big jump in his career Uh, but now that big jump that he made in his career is about to help him out in a big way monetarily He is about to make a a Significant amount of much more than he's making right now much more than probably he's made in throughout his entire career And he doesn't even have to be one of the highest pay say will he end up being one of the highest paid Safeties it to me it all depends on how the rest of the season goes If he keeps this up even like again He could and I don't expect him to but he could be done for this year Like as far as getting picks, I don't think he will be but he could be done getting getting picks for this year And it will have been an amazing year for him It will have been an amazing year if I picked like that's that's a lot But I don't expect him to be done Of course, he's gonna continue to to to keep playing and continue to be out there and continue to do what he does Um, but he is um, he said himself up really really nice Really really nice moving forward. Uh, gotta give a huge shout out to to mike mcdonough Gotta give a huge shout out to mike mcdonough because mike mcdonough He oh man remember last year last year started off a little bit rocky But again, we gotta remember he was a new defensive coordinator Uh, the game that sticks out to me the most was uh week I think week two was week two and played the dolphins and it was like man, what are we doing? Why is a rookie? Why is a rookie cornerback who didn't play not a lick of pre-seed? What's a rookie cornerback in clutch time in crunch time? What's a rookie cornerback on tyreek hill? One of the best wide receivers in the game And the best wide receiver on that field What why is a rookie court on in what's a rookie cornerback one-on-one with tyreek hill on the fourth quarter when the dolphins need a touchdown? Why What are we doing? Why we not calling tower? What's that? So that was really frustrating and there was some moments like that was like hey mike. What's going on? But we saw the growth Throughout last season with mike mcdonald and now this season Why I really appreciate mike mcdonald and think that uh, I think he could be going after this year. Um, it's because This season started off no more than Humphrey No tires bowser. Uh, there's been he's been missing. Uh, he's missed a dot fairway for some games. He's missed. Um Uh, david a job. Oh For some games. He's uh He's missed marcus williams for some games. Um, daryl warley is just getting back Uh, and there's been more but are there's washington. He's going now most likely for the season. Um Different times he's been missing a lot of different players a whole lot of different players on the defense I know there's more, but I can't think of him off the top of my head Well, that defense has still continued to shine That defense has still continued to be Amazing really So shout out to uh, mike mcdonald for just growth For him taking the next step Because we have players on the field playing but a culture's got a huge part in it too So it's just been really really nice, uh to see it's been really really Amazing just to see the the forward progress. Um, again with gino stone specifically with mike mcdonald specifically Um, but really with with team keep it clean. I just I love y'all. I really appreciate y'all I really do value you all's opinions. I value what you all have to say about whatever it is that we're talking about That's why I appreciate hearing from y'all in the comment section so much I appreciate hearing from y'all and even though my apologies because with instagram If you send me a message on instagram On instagram, I'm just so backed up with messages on there. So do not excuse me. Don't think I'm Ignoring you if you hit me up on instagram.  It just It's tough to get back to messages on there because I'm just so backed up with messages on there Like sometimes randomly if you hit me up and I'm looking at instagram at that time Hey, I might hit you back right away right then and there But if I ain't looking at it then it's tough But twitter twitter good on that one and email But anyway, um I really appreciate all y'all. I really do and This video while again, it was about gino stone I just wanted to let y'all know that you are extremely appreciated You are extremely valued if ain't nobody tell you that i'm telling you that because I really do appreciate it Um y'all get in the comment section and share whatever it is that we talking about y'all share how y'all feel about it And whether you agree whether you disagree or talking to each other in the comment section whether you agree or disagree But it's always love man. It's always love and it's always respect every single time every single video That means a lot to me. So y'all keep that up. Um, we are like question from subscribers. We done Uh, we ain't got nothing else to talk about now. Like it's we're ready for the game tomorrow We ready for the game tomorrow ready to see the ravens take on the seahawks You know what? I saw something that I was like, man, that's disrespect for you already doing that I forgot what I was watching. Maybe uh, when I was watching the uh, the stealers in titans game, I think That was a good game. Um, but I ain't like the outcome because I'm like, come on. Come on. Come on. Will Will come on. You can throw a touchdown Good close, but do that pick at the end but um I think it was doing that game. They were like, oh man, uh, the lineup for sunday is full of great games from start to finish Okay, cool. Yeah, there it is because at 9 30.  I think it's bingles bills. Yeah And they like they completely skipped over the the ravens and seahawks. I'm like really like hello. What y'all doing? What y'all doing? I forgot. Well, I think it was doing the thursday night football game One of y'all have have saw it too, but Anyway, that that should be a really good game man, but um That's that man. I love y'all. I appreciate y'all Uh, for the varsity jackets, man, y'all already know where to go The link is right down below in the description and again You can use code engraving to get 10% off because who doesn't love a discount Um, I will see y'all doing a game tomorrow. It should be really fun. It should be really tough It should be really stressful even though Ha Because again, this this is one of them ravens games where the expectation for me is that it's stressful Uh, if they pulled the lions, I don't see them pulling the lions game in this one I think this is gonna be a good one. I really do even though the lions one was great one They blowed them out We wouldn't mind if they blew out the seawalls too, but I I don't really expect them to but It's this is gonna be real. This is this is gonna be a test man This this game is going to be extremely tough. You got toughness on offense toughness on defense You got to go against Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalfe, Jackson Smith and the jig, but uh, you got Gino I'm about to say Gino Stone. You got Gino Smith Um, his the resurrection of his career, man So shout out to him because I remember back when he was a second round pick for the jets I want to say and it obviously didn't work out there And I thought that he was done I thought that that was a wrap, but He said nope y'all ain't writing me off. Shout out to deandre Hopkins, too But um, I said no, yeah, I ain't doing it and He been doing this thing so shout out to him and then on defense So yeah, it's gonna be tough, man. It's gonna be really really tough But it's gonna be fun and hopefully them ravens come out on top. Hopefully they be clicking and hopefully they just They shock us all with how well they play tomorrow


In this video, we will present the solution to question number two from practice exam two for math 2270 We are asked to compute the norm of 3u plus 2v minus w So to begin with we need to compute just this linear combination 3u plus 2v minus w It's gonna move this around to get a little bit more space on the screen So if we take if we compute that that vector there 3u plus 2v minus w This is going to equal We're gonna multiply u by 3 so we get 6 0 and negative 3 We're gonna multiply v by 2 so we get negative 2 negative 2 Plus 6 and then we're gonna tie we're just gonna subtract w so we get minus 3 plus 1 and plus 2 So we then compute this value This will give us 6 minus 5 which is 1 We're gonna get 0 minus 2 plus 1 which is a negative 1 and then you're gonna get 6 plus 2 Is 8 minus 3 is 5 So this is the vector. We need to take its length now when you compute the norm of a vector Remember this is equal to the square root of x dot x which this turns out just to make it the square root of a of a bunch of Sum of squares right x 1 squared plus x 2 squared all the way down to x n squared That's the basic formula here now be aware that if you are taking If you're taking complex numbers right here, you're actually gonna get a sum of the complex numbers The squares there so for like example If we took the length of the vector 1 plus 2i and then 3i You know something like that in that situation You're gonna get the square root of 1 squared plus 2 squared plus 3 squared So you're gonna take the sum of all the both the real part imagining parts separately Now in this vector in this problem, we just have a real vector. So we don't have to worry about that the length The length of the vector this is gonna be the square root of we're gonna get 1 squared plus 1 squared plus 5 squared 5 squares 25 You're gonna add uh, you're gonna add 2 to that so we get the square root of 27 in which I don't see that on the list That's because 27 can be factors 9 times 3 where 9 is a perfect square So this becomes 3 root 3 and this would then tell us the correct answer is d So


something you want to avoid. So what's the biggest nightmare that we tend to see and you want to understand the path of the entry side shoulder which becomes the block shoulder. Now the biggest nightmare that a thrower can get into in my opinion perhaps is the top distance killing mistake and it's pulling the shoulder around.  So here's the thing that you want to avoid at all costs as you develop as a thrower it's pulling the shoulder. So at any time you turn the arm and the shoulder together that's typically going to wind up causing you to fall and then you're going to come in here and then you're going to pull. Now I've seen just recently we had an athlete he has a really great block hits it but he pulls here so he turns his hip through he blocks real well but he's turning his hip and pulling his shoulder back. So one of the things that again we'll talk about in camps in our program is we want to deliver a knockout punch. We want that shoulder nice and strong and right you don't see knockout punches in professional MMA or boxers throwing punches like this it's bam they're going to get that whole delivery side in that's what's going to deliver that knockout blow. So we want to deliver the knockout blow in your throw that means learn to not have the left shoulder pulling around and that's going to start at all phases so you're going to see it here and sometimes people are saying throw the arm and that we agree with but there's a right way and a wrong way to move the arm and if you move that shoulder with it you're going to be here and you're going to be seeing this type of stuff and the block pulls around late and now you're pulling off the throw instead of pulling here and coming into the throw and that's the thing we want to avoid. So this is a super simple tip but what you want to do is look at your video and if you see your shoulder cutting in so when you're in the back of the circle if you see the shoulder cutting in or you see yourself doing a half the turn or 180 and your shoulder is cutting like this and you're pulling around and your block elbow you can look in this camera and you see that block elbow over here you're in trouble because when you look at the great throwers you're going to see that block elbow here if you're looking at shot putters you see it here you do not see this type of motion from the best throwers in the world throwing the biggest distances and you want to learn that at a young age because if you start developing rip around shoulder I'll tell you this as a private coach who sees people from all over the US even from other countries I see that as one of the when I get a athlete who has that I really let them know how much of a limitation is and how much distance that's costing them because it's costing them immediate distance and it's costing them development distance look at your film if you see that shoulder pulling around time to get rid of that it's the top distance killer it's a habit that's hard to break but be patient and really focus on it because it'll make all the difference in the world and if you want to know how to break it in more depth check out our throwing chain reaction program links in the description hope you guys have a great day hopefully you enjoyed this video if you did give us a thumbs up hit that subscribe button check out the links below used to a little bit upper body dominant okay that's a little better now I just want you to really concentrate on pulling that left arm down okay so why does it feel off you're so upright you cut the corner you got to get long so you can come around long forward see that was better you just miss the release a little bit but you see how much of a difference that makes that was a lot better now see how your left leg is locked it can't be locked because it's going to pull you out of position where this is at this is going to come down see where this is at boom so I'm going this way versus you're coming around you're kind of doing what a lot of kids will do you're doing kind of a combo pre-block stand throw if I'm here I naturally want to put my foot in the right position action reaction all of everything's going to be a reaction so when I create the angle see how the angle is what pulls you under the ball not flexing that was better that was better if you're doing the static wind you got to start here okay because you got to wind it right up to the high point okay so you're starting here and you're trying to wind up which is kind of screwing you up yeah that wasn't bad though yeah that was much better okay it's close that was better yeah there you go good job I'm going to seriously get one of those that was good that was all right though that was the two the one two five and that was a pretty good like the movement on it was pretty good though


Everybody forced here ripping 2022 absolute football hobby six box number 10 random team style show the results right here Thanks for joining everybody and good luck Links and chat you can always find them on the site. Here we go I would like to enter bogart sound with the red socks. We should sign bogarts and turner That's what that's what the red socks should do bogart shortstop turner center field because russia wassing was a great quarterback before this season and he was traded to the broncos so it was like a Probably the biggest transaction in the offseason. I would say more mills. He got rookie john dotton of 275 commanders Jalen tolbert cowboys quadruple like rookie otto to 199 And by storm commanders john dotson to 25 I'm sorry jeffy. We hit something nice though. Oh, kyle's here Kyle stick around at this break. We got us. We got surprised. Yeah Let's just say It's spicy. Yeah, it's gonna get spicy Soals of the trade mac jones dual relic pats to 199 Steelers to marvin leal rookie otto to 50 and brian cook rookie chiefs to 75. Oh, no, steve roger Niners ricky jumbo patch jane gray to 49 Josh jacob triple relic otto raiders to 99 the raiders hero last weekend and fields for the bares to 50 Uh mario to falcons lorence jags dulcet rookie broncos to 275 Pats pierre strung jr one of one rookie triple laundry tag otto swoosh shield and players association Nice card pats triple laundry tag otto That's harper with the patriots There we go, man And avante adam star gazing raiders for 50 kayser is one of one. That means the best part of the night. Go pats And watson tools of the trade mike williams dual relic chargers 199 cowboy sam williams rookie otto to 75 And sea birds ricky bow melton to 100 We should get a uh company vehicle a land rover and i'll just drive it every day To and from work and then i'll use it for my daily life And you guys never get to use it and i'll register at my name too. There you go That works. That's a good deal. Yeah Locked there Niners terry and davis price jumbo rookie patch to 49 Cowboys michael gallup tools of the trade dual relic four of 25 on the otto How about them boy them cowboys Snoop connor 45 of indy jags rookie snoop Snoop bring a green hat Snoop snoop a loop Yeah, I didn't realize the kid reporters are so common. I boomed him earlier and I didn't realize they were so common. So Yeah, but we'll see how How shan's grading doesn't his uh kid reporters rookie for the bucks logan hall to 275 huge, uh Maybe you spend like a few thousand dollars. Yeah, wandale robinson rookie premier jersey otto to 99 giants And draft diamond seattle dk met cap to 100 Virtual walker cowboys patch to 49 dolphin's rookie otto chanting tindle to 50 And normie otto's to 100 packers Yeah, they do They're trash I picked their defense up for this weekend of fantasy, but it feels like it might play so i'm like dang it's what am I gonna do now? Probably still go with them. He'll probably ball out though. So probably stink Bills josh allen patch card 10 of 49 show stop Cam chancer seahawks absolute legends otto to 75 And raven's rookie isaia likely to 50 Come on still good for a kaboom here Had a one of one already, which was awesome for the pats See what else we can hit And all sold out tonight guys personals are also fully been full for a while Um, so if you've ordered recently for a personal really I had almost 100% certain it would go tomorrow night Rather than tonight Davis mills erin rogers stool jersey mahomes and sky more 35 49 chief stool patch Legends jonathan taylor three of five colts otto nice hit colts Sweet james williams rookie to 75 lions I can believe russell Wilson's on the cover He's won a super bowl better a lot of probles was really great with the seahawks Which traded the solid season for a lot of money got a big contract This was printed before they maybe stoned Yeah designs for all this Isn't the mosaic boxes last year Eagles myles sanders tools of the trade dual relic to 199 I mean they put rookie quarterbacks on the covers of things and we don't know if they're any good Troy anderson rookie otto 16 of 50 falcons Like you look at some of those 2018 products in 29 and 20 uh, like 2018 rocks you have like donald Baker rosen on the cover of certain things michael carded the 75 jets Can't just keep my homes on everything and brady on everything Yeah, 2019 oranges daniel jones. Hey, at least he's been a starter his whole career Four guys one of the giants Oh god, dude stinkville Souls of the trade dual relic brandon a uke to 199 niners Logan hall bucks for key otto to 75 And karson went to 50 commanders Come on now come on now See like a big glass redemption or a big kaboom Magic are slipping now down by 10 now come on Tighten up magic Raiders josh jacob is patched to 25 250 points ran up to all at the end And kenny two gloves to 100 stealers Kenny Waddle barkley damien pierce working at 275 texans Jets brice hall Quad relic rookie otto to 49 Jets Last call falcons young hay cue to 25 Coups keep it going Derek Carr readers jersey to 99 Dolphins auto mercury morris 44 of 50 Josh palmer or no josh Pascal rookie otto rookie to 75 lions Not auto when we're gonna go see the magic It's not gonna be like a Saturday. I think It's tuesday. They it'd be really hard to find a tuesday home game right there. Honestly You work tuesdays, right? It would have to it would literally have to be a Saturday Evans digs. We've got kyle pits quad relic to 99 falcons commanders johann dots and rookie otto to 20 nice hit commanders And eagles rookie golden a kobe dean nine of ten d-hop glass card redemption Kyle pits falcons Falcons kyle pits on the glass card redemption There we go chief sky more rookie to 275 Johan dots and triple relic rookie otto commanders to 199 And jets by storm rookie insert saw scarter to 75 Dang legal number one hater right there Biggest hater as sam was at brashad perriman That's saying a lot Same as player hater number one robinson cadarius tony james harrison On the jersey card sealers to 99 rams cam acres spectrum signatures to 50 And on the back is a david bell rookie for the browns to 50. So no kaboom in the case Saw that a few times last year Or an explosive haven't seen an explosive yet tonight actually through two cases All right guys 250 points random to all right here Nine times six and three top spot gets the points one two three four five six seven eight and nine peter d Yeah, seriously legal. I mean that was a good trade at the time too talking about you know rookie tight end and then you know Big star on the nba Okay, so we have So yeah, I pulled you that silver and the average person was what I was what I'm hearing We got Steelers jersey james harrison falcons kyle pits Raiders derrick car raiders josh jacob's Niners brandon iuk eagles myles sanders Chiefs mohomes and more josh alan bill's Walker for the cowboys davis price niners mike williams chargers Danny gray niners uh mac jones pats thin plastic there Um autos now rams cam acres john dotson commanders Again here. This one's a 20 mercury morris dolphins to 49 quadratic jets breeze hall Logan hall bucks Troy anderson for the falcons jonathan taylor to five for the colts cam chancer seahawks chanting tindle dolphins Jersey auto wandale robinson giants dual relic auto cowboys michael gallup the 25 Sam williams rookie auto for the cowboys triple relic auto josh jacob's raiders to 99 the marvin leal auto steelers Tolbert quad relic auto cowboys falcons glass redemption kyle pits And one of one triple laundry tag rookie auto for the patriots pierre strong jr And that'll do it. We got a full case coming up. Thanks everybody


From London, England, it's the Cube. Covering Discover 2016 London. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante and Paul Gillins. Back to the docks of London, everybody. This is the Cube, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Paul Gillin and I are excited to have a little blogger session here. Bart Junjuns is here. How'd I do? Yeah, that's right. Okay, that's right. And he's joined by Phil Seller, two bloggers, two practitioners. Bart is an IT consultant. Phil is a practitioner in SE, actually. Right. And welcome, gentlemen to the Cube. Thank you for having us. You're very welcome. So you guys have been participating this week in the blogger program. I heard it was pretty animated this week. It had some of the HP execs in. Bloggers love to challenge the execs which we love. So that's why we want to talk about what's happening in IT land, the real stories from IT. So Phil, start us off. As an IT practitioner and professional, how would you summarize the state of IT today? You know, it's, for the last few years, it's really been about doing more with less. And so automation's been the story that I see most often within both organizations I've been working for recently. You know, it's primarily freeing yourselves up to do better, more valuable sorts of activities to innovate and to have time to actually change the IT operation so that it's easier to manage and it's easier to maintain and that you're not having problems with downtime and with general outages to affect your business. But IT has historically been a kind of a no-win situation, right?  When everything's running smoothly, they get no credit. As technology becomes fundamental to more businesses, you know, Mark Benioff said more SaaS companies will come out of non-technology companies than tech companies. As that occurs, is the perception of IT changing or do you still get a bad rep? Well, if you follow marketing, then of course, everything is possible and if you have an IT problem, put it in the cloud and your problems are solved. Now, in reality, sometimes it will happen, but also you get to be realistic. It's not always the case, not every application can be put in the cloud. A company that is not even virtualizing yet, yes, they still exist and you want to put them in the cloud, I'm sorry, but that's 10 steps too fast for them, so you got to educate them, you got to train them of what you really want, yeah? So, and that's what we see now as well with hybrid IT. Now, hybrid IT can be anything, yeah? It can be on-prem data centers, it can be in the cloud or something in between, but even then you have to help them assist for their infrastructure, let it be in their own data center or let it be in the cloud because the cloud, yeah, at the end it's a computer from someone else, but it's still a computer and also there, you have servers and storage guys, they need to do their job, right? So you just use the term hybrid IT, which is a marketing term that HP has been using, HP has been using a lot this week. How about some of these other terms that you're hearing? How real are they to you? Let's start with digital transformation. Is this a real concept for you? Yeah, from my perspective, I think that there's nugget of truth in there. You know, it's a good marketing buzzword, but really what it comes down to is modernization of applications. You know, it's adapting to a new way of doing things at scale, writing applications that are easily deployed and automated. I think that's what I see within digital transformation. You know, it's also a company's idea of disruption and disruptive technologies like Uber and things like that. Within the enterprise, more so, you have to worry about those disruptors, but your challenge is adapting your traditional IT applications and things to be able to do the automated scale sorts of situations. Bart, what's your take on that? Well, often when I go to customers or when I'm teaching classes, I refer to Indeed for the transformation like in Uber or Netflix and so on, but not every customer has an Uber application or is the owner of a lot of video content. So you always have to take a look of what's your workload, what's your application today? What are your type of users today and where do you want to go to? If you have a customer with 1000 users, but you know in five years they still have 1000 users. Okay, it's quite clear. This is the infrastructure you need on Prem or over there, but yeah, Uber or now Pokemon as well, it's going up and now they need a lot of servers, but now they need less servers. Okay, we're not going to call HPA, deliver me 10,000 servers and in three months I don't need them anymore. Now it's coming with that flexible capacity and so on, but even then you've got to be ready for that. HP as the company that delivers the material but also the customer is got to be ready for that and that's on infrastructure level and also an application level. Let me ask you, okay, go ahead, finish. Like I said, yeah, not every application is ready to be in the cloud, not every application is scalable, so every situation is different. We've been hearing that from HP as well. I want to ask you one more and on a one to 10 scale, well one means I have no idea what this means, to 10 means I'm very excited about it. Composable architecture, composable infrastructure. You go first. I go first, okay. Well, now for me, I'm quite confident of knowing what is composable. So let's say it's eight or nine. Oh, okay. Yeah, but because I'm a trainer and you can follow these sessions because a trainer also has to learn it somewhere so I have some opportunities but I understand that there's a lot of people that don't know what composable is. But in your mind it's real. Yeah, and that's real. Next Monday, I have a customer visit and they have rack mount servers and now they said, you know what? That's C7000 blade enclosure. Okay, it's still there for a few years but no, no, I want the future. I want synergy. Now. And Phil, Phil, you agree with that? Resonate with you? It does to a degree. I've worked in the mid-market all of my career so it resonates a lot less in that market space and it's because of the scale in the mid-market. We're not large enough to afford multiple synergy chassis and the scale that would be required in a single data center for that sort of model to work. Now, applying composability to hyper-converge that definitely resonates more towards the market segment that I represent. Well, what about that? I mean, you sort of, HPE seems to be positioning its hyper-converged 380 sort of as a lower-end solution. I say lower-end, not super-high-scale, large organizations. Kind of their knockoff on Nutanix and it is also composability. And here's Nutanix, four or five billion dollar valuations, seems to be growing. Revenue, growing losses as well. I saw that yesterday. Kind of interesting, but still define the market, essentially. What do you see as HPE's position in that whole hyper-converged space? You know, it's an interesting space. They have the software-defined storage play with store virtual that makes sense to put into a hyper-converged offering. It works well. It's extremely affordable, which has been where we've been able to sell it. You know, the company I used to work for was a managed service provider. I helped architect some solutions around store virtual. And so, you know, that works from a cost perspective for small to medium customers. And that's really where I can see them getting good market traction versus a Nutanix where the price tag's just going to be cost prohibitive for those sorts of customers. Paul was mentioning hybrid IT. I wanted to follow up on that. One of the taglines is we make hybrid IT simple. We wrote a piece a year and a half ago saying you don't buy hybrid cloud, you build it. And hybrid IT, if we define it as the ability to move applications and data seamlessly between whatever, private, public, and both, however you define each of those, that's not simple, certainly not today. I mean, maybe there's a simplification of the infrastructure occurring, but the rest of it, the processes associated with it. I wonder if you could sort of validate what I just said and maybe add some more on that. Well, I agree in that because in the keynote I saw, I think, a hundred times the word simple, yeah? So, apparently it's got to be simple. Now, I agree in some kind of way the user experience is simple. If I give my smartphone to my six-year-old boy, he can work with it because it's a simple user experience that doesn't mean that that smartphone is a simple device. There is still a lot of technology in there and now, with the cloud, let it be. On-prem, you build it yourself. Now with Azure Stack, I think that's really a cool thing with the Microsoft partnership with Azure Stack that you can build your own Azure, small, medium, big in your own data center. The user experience is similar with public cloud, but at the end you still have servers and you have storage and you have a network and you can have problems with that. Also in the public cloud, you don't see it, but also there, there are problems. You see outages in the public cloud as well. So, it's simple for the user, but you still need people behind it, public or private or somewhere in between, you still need some kind of expert people to support the infrastructure. So, the infrastructure is still important and it's not only the software, right? And that's what we have to educate those small and medium and big partners because I'm also a fan, everyone wants synergy. I'm based in Belgium, we have also small and a lot of medium companies and they want synergy. I said, you're going too fast, go for a hyper-convert solution which is also scalable up to 60 nodes. You can put more than 1,000 VMs on there. It's also simple, the user experience is simple. So, first start to walk and then run before you're going to run a marathon. We talk a lot about infrastructure as code. How hyped is that versus the reality? At this point, from what I've seen, it is a little bit of hype, but there's also a ramp needed for infrastructure as code. And HP's done some really good things around that with their OneView product and being able to call into it using an API and stuff like that and then establishing support with Chef and Puppet and other vendors in the ecosystem to be able to do it. But there's a ramp up and things like the Redfish specification and technologies like that that allow you into the infrastructure to be able to make those instantiations of whatever you're trying to do. I mean, that had to establish first and it needed to standardize to some degree. Each vendor having their own flavor makes it more difficult to support for third-party software companies. To what degree, in your opinion, will the traditional IT suppliers be able to mimic the simplicity of the public cloud? Whether it's HPE or whomever, Dell EMC, Nutanix, et cetera, to what degree will they be able to recreate that experience on-prem and what impact will that have on the market? What's your outlook on that? Well, it will be more on software level, that's for sure. So the customer will need to choose which experience do I want? Do I want to go the HPE or the OpenStack way with or without cloud system? Do I want to go to Amazon way? Do I want to go to Microsoft way? That's more the user experience. And I think that that's important for a company like HPE that they say, yeah, we can do it. If it's OpenStack, we have an API, we can talk with it. We partner with Microsoft. Yes, we can do it. And I think that's important that you're not choosing just for one solution that it stays as open as possible. What do you make of HPE, giving it's OpenStack distro and staccato to SUSE? I can't say that I'm all that surprised, honestly, that it was moved out. With the announcement of basically selling out the software division to Micro Focus, I don't think this comes as a huge shock. The OpenStack distribution, they've done a lot of work around it and they've contributed a lot to the program, to the foundation and stuff. For OpenStack staccato is one that I am particularly interested in and have been for a while because it plays to the automation story that I've tried to create in my past employer. And it's a good product, it's not simple and back to that simple story. Any of these solutions at this point, they're trying to attack and make it easier to mimic that public cloud sort of interface, but they're not simple, they're complex. It feels like IT's getting more complex, isn't it? Absolutely. You're not allowed to say that, but it is actually. You both have significant knowledge and personal investment in HP. This is a company that's gone through a lot of changes over the last 18 months. How confident are you? How positive are you going forward? Coming out of this conference, in HP's direction, that it is heading in the right direction. Maybe you deserve it. To understand this, you've got to come to an event like HPE Discover, okay? I talk with people in Belgium from HPE and you get their view because it's server guy and storage guy and network guy. That's good. And then software, there are some people as well, but to get the overall picture, you've got to come to visit HPE Discover. America, Europe, I go there because for me, this is the place to be to get the information. It's here where you can meet the people where you can see, okay, we're going that way, that's the new technology. And the cool thing is that, yeah, you can talk directly with the program managers, the developers of the tools. That's what I like the most is because it's really the accessibility of all the people. But the question, how confident are you in HPE's direction right now? I'm quite confident. I like the event a lot. I saw a lot of new things. It's still things that I understand and I feel confident for the next year. You know, it's, the way I see it, what's left of the HPE after the spin out, after the software sell out, is the core of what I've traditionally used from the company. It's the data center infrastructure and there's still some really great technology here in the company. 3PAR in particular, the Aruba assets and they're doing some really interesting things for sure. On those fronts, I feel pretty confident for the company. You know, but with the thread of cloud, with struggles that they've had in cloud, I can see concern or whether it should be some concern over their ability to execute. I don't have a crystal ball. Only time will tell with that. But the assets that are left inside the company are good assets from a data center infrastructure standpoint. All right gentlemen, we'll leave it there. Thanks very much for sharing your perspectives and best of luck going forward. Really pleasure having you. Okay, keep it right there, buddy. Paul Gillan, I'll be back with our next guest right after this is theCUBE. We're live from Excel London, HPE Discover 2016. Right back.