Select word meeting for Monday or we can't hear you one of the two Yes, yes, we can No, we did not Okay, thank you Andrew, I think you've got the next agenda item Editions or changes for tonight That does none from staff Or members no, all right you got off easy Andrew, okay moving on to the next agenda item Public to be heard. This is the time for the public to Address items that are not on the agenda I'm gonna start with hands in the room any comments from Participants in the room I'll start over here with Betsy. Can you come up to the microphone, please? Andy Watts Yes While Betsy's coming up to the microphone Can can we ask folks that are online to shut off their cameras if they're not speaking so that? Those of us participating as board members remotely can have enough screen space to see the others Thank you Also, if you are at home, please turn off your mic as well Thank you Hey, Betsy state your name and that's he done I live in the town center and This is about our swimming pool. I This summer my my children might show my child and her my grandchild came to visit and I went down to our town pool before they got here to see what the facility was like for The little one and it's really there's no pool it is just a flat slab of concrete with these things that dribble water down on the kids and notably, there was no children there were no children under there and If they are small they wear a Life vest and they're in the water and their parent is holding them This is not good I so I said, okay, I'll go down to the Maple Street and there for my daughter my granddaughter and I to go in it's $19 and if I I did go twice there and it was $38 that we spend for two visits and That pool has a Graduated depth for kids It's only like a over their toes and goes to like two feet where they can go in and they can actually do it on Their own and be independent and no one has to hold them and I think this this is bad for the center because we have multitude of families who've got little kids and They're not able to enjoy it in the water the way it promotes learning to like the water and When I spoke to Cole who was the manager of the pool. He said really we this this facility is really for the older child because that's who gets to use it in the way that we expect a swimming pool to be used and I think we do a disservice to all the families who have young children that they have to go over to the town pool the Village pool or go to the lake which are not bad choices it's just that we should be able to have that for our children and our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren and I Cole said that the last time it was updated was in 1979 and Although they did at some point take away the small pool the waiting pool that they had Which was less usage and I I think we need to look at that I know that we're not allowed to do any bonding But we need to look at what what we offer to our families there And the other part about that park at Sand Hill is the slides are all a dark green and if there is sun shining on those dark green surfaces it is not tolerable to slide down them if you're in shorts for the kids and so that's a problem and I know that we just updated all that all that all that equipment But it's a problem because it's so dark and the kids can't use it unless it's dark outside or it's you know Not dark, but just cloudy So I think we need to pay a little attention to that The second thing I want to say is that We have a trails commission a trail committee that includes the conservation committee that used to be a commission which is a totally different ball of wax because they have more power over what they do a commission than does a committee and We have holes in Trails committee three of them now and People aren't working on the conservation. I think they need to be separated again. So the commission can actually do its work So I would like us to look at that as an agenda item in the future Or how we manage that because I don't think that we're being Not the word fair is not the word I want But it's just it's not it's we're not being able to focus on what a conservation group should be because there's work to do On the trails committee cleaning the trails marking the trails making sure the trail is you know safe And it's got all the pieces to it. So I think we need to think about that. Thank you very much. Thank you Betsy Mary post Essex Center, thank you very much for letting me speak I'm asking tonight that the select board start to pay attention to some of the major issues of The town outside the village that have not been addressed for years I had hoped that when merger failed again this time the select board would finally recognize that they have a Responsibility to the rest of the town citizens not just those who are also part of the municipality of Essex Junction Specifically tonight, I am asking that you stop negotiating with the trustees and pay attention To one huge problem that has been put before you time and time again I was taken aback when Patty Davis made a plea to you to recognize the dangerous situation at Saxon Hill When she said that walkers and joggers are in danger due to no signage Especially with hunting coming up and the walkers and joggers not knowing where hunting is allowed. I was quite upset about that We've already had one shooting victim. Dr. John Rice Killed by a stray shot through the window in his home while eating lunch and caring for his ill wife People were upset and wanted action to prevent this sort of thing happening again Many people express fear of having the same happen to them I've heard that home shooting ranges are a well-loved Vermont entertainment and So far no leadership of any rural towns that I know of including Essex Has had the courage to address this beyond the gathering where we speak to the wall and then are told. Thank you No action follows Now with hunting season coming up again I noticed that Evan said he would try to look into it But I'm afraid that all this attention demanded by the trustees is going to take precedence again We who are not part of the village are tired of being treated like an on-love stepchild Signage is not a big thing and I think that safety should become a priority a higher priority than supposed separation Secondly, I'd like to express my in credulity at the madness that has overtaken both the select board and the trustees meeting after meeting after meeting you don't have a life and I've lost my place here. You don't have a life and while you're giving up your life Most of you most of what you're supposed to be doing is not getting done There's something very very wrong with this picture. Who do you think you're serving? All of this activity also means that staff has to give up their lives, too They need to work overtime and have greater expectations put upon them It affects citizens also in order to participate in the business of our municipalities We are forced to go to these same meetings So I would hope for all of our sakes that this craziness can finally end. Thank you. Thanks, Mary Thank you for letting me speak my name is Paula Sargent and I am a former member of the Essex senior center And I'm speaking I have addressed the board of trustees several times But never the select board although we did send a concerned seniors memo to all of you July 15th asking you to help us Reopen the Essex senior center We have not had any advance in that process whatsoever and I wanted to update you on that We two weeks ago We heard at a meeting a bridge meeting that There would be three options available for the seniors for the senior center to reopen And that we would hear about these options at a meeting This thursday Then the next week we heard that An option had been picked And that they would be having at this meeting on thursday talking about what the seniors would do to staff and the and create volunteers at the senior center That that the senior center was basically going to be run by volunteers And that a note would be sent out It was invitations were being sent out to all the seniors that had been participating in the senior center It was in the mail So today monday, we have not received the invitation to come to the meeting Or that there will be a meeting And we still don't know in writing what the three options were for the opening of the senior center And what we can do to support it I've talked to Eight seniors today and they're very confused They're very disappointed And I I think I just want to bring it to your attention that this is a very chaotic situation Seniors need consistency. They need leadership just like everyone else in the village They they need time to make arrangements so they can go to these meetings so they can arrange a calendar And none of that's happened. And this is since five weeks ago We started saying we're here to support you. We want to see the senior center open again and um So I just hope that you can help us to see that this happens And that the seniors can have their space back again so that even if they just have a safe place to go In the town of the village so that they can meet together. This is I've said before is populations of 50 and older That's a significant part of the sx population that was using the senior center and enjoying it. Thank you. Thank you We got a the there's a opening party for the senior center the friday before labor day I think that's the third thanks. I didn't memorize if it was the second so it's the third We are opening it and yes, the senior center will be we're trying to bring it back To where it was several years ago where it was volunteer led We have we have some issues with busing. We have not been able to staff our senior vans. We have two of them But as many local businesses can attest It is hard to get people to come back to work and do certain things So we are still down a couple drivers But the other thing is our senior center needs to be of able-bodied seniors It is not intended to be adult care And so what we want is back to people taking care of their own activities Scheduling their activities and we will make sure that you know the activities that are scheduled for that time get Happened etc. Etc that the vans run smoothly, but the center opens Uh friday august 3rd and there is a Sorry, september 3rd, and I believe there's some type of um Cake and some other things that will be available that day, but thank you for bringing up the issue All right. Thank you Any other any other comments from the room? And if you'd like I can address the signage issue that was brought up, please please We do not have signage in the town of s6 for reasons of What is a shooting zone and what is not a shooting zone? We have been over this topic many times including All of the summer before Covid occurred We do not put up signs telling people where shooting occurs and where it doesn't because bullets don't respect signage We have no idea how far a bullet will go if it ricochets or if it does something else So to put up a sign in any park saying this is a safe zone We don't know that because a bullet if I remember correctly could go well over half a mile And so if we put signs at sexon hill Um or something like that then we gonna put them at indian brook. Are we gonna put them? Uh on every road that goes through the town We have not had a chance to fully discuss this with our parks and rec department or our public works But in general those town does not put up signage of such of such Safety etc. And so that is that is That is why we don't you don't see signs throughout the town telling people that they're in a non-shooting zone So Do you have uh this put on the agenda for some time soon where the whole community can take part in this to see How the community feels about no signage because there are other ways to do things You could at least put up a sign saying that there will be hunting allowed in this park Thank you Okay, moving on to online online comments, uh harland smith. They see your hand up Yeah, andy young I I would like to speak to something that Is written on the agenda, but it's technically not on the agenda at the moment and that would be executive sessions um I I brought this up saturday and and uh In the meetings that we just had um when you were looking for voices from the town and my concern is uh Transparency um and accurate information and evan gave a Pretty decent detail as to why executive executive sessions are important um But I don't believe that All negotiations need to be behind executive sessions and and going forward with the communications between the trustees and The select board it would be nice to hear Before an executive session decision is made On what everybody's feelings is whether they should go into them or not um, or maybe even a public to be heard on Maybe questions about the executive session or whether they feel What communications I know it's a complicated area, but I really feel like some of the problems that we have with trying to get the information out to the public Um is accuracy and and a trust level and transparency so I would As a resident, I would highly recommend that we have as many conversations in the open So that we know what all trustees and all select board members Are asking for questions and their thought process In the process of us trying to negotiate with each other So I just wanted to bring that up. Thank you. All right. Thanks. Arlen Okay, let's see I see andy champagne's hand andy Can you hear me? Yes, we can Yeah, I'd like to see sacks and I'd like to see signs up at sacks and hill also You have a 24 million dollar budget. Just do it Can't imagine the hunting grounds up at sacks and hill is all that great right hunting in Essex isn't safe We're too populated the town manager just doesn't want to make a phone call and would rather give us lip service Select board you better force them to do it and we'll start voting you out. This isn't hard All right. Thanks. Andy Davis Eddie Davis you muted. Did you want to speak? Yes, I'd like to speak. Um, I would like to know um why the um rec department Has duties for signage When the conservation and trails committee has been asking for help with signage So, you know people it's like andy just said it's so populated You just management should be looking at the town of waterbury, which has 7 000 residents They have signs from their parking lot to their park sacks and hill is a park Like it or not people come from all over and you're looking for a lawsuit It is by statute Highway statute 19 304 a that states it is up to the town select board To ensure that the safety of the public using public class one two or three class highway Is safe that is your duty Just like the the roads where the apple trees are orchard road or whatever it is in Essex that has those apple trees There is a Paper sign that says 200 foot buffer zone I am willing to join the conservation and trails committee And I would ask that you allow the rec department to give some of the duties to the conservation and trails committee because because the rec department's too caught up in Giving us a pool for our young children or at least putting things on the agenda that this community needs the 11 500 of us and and Maybe we need new management. Maybe we need a new manager someone like a manager like the town of Weightsfield that has a smaller population than just town outside the village and they have signs. Thank you expatting Any other comments? okay, uh, then let's move on to a business item 5a update and discussion on the housing commission Andrew, I think we've got this one Katie Ah, Katie Hi everybody Um, I'm Gabrielle Ritesmith. I'm the vice chair of the Essex housing commission Katie our chair could not be with you tonight And um, so I'm here instead Um, so I just thought I'd take a couple of minutes up front And give a little bit of background. Um, very briefly about the commission Uh, we were formed last year. We're a joint commission between the two municipalities Um, we held our first meeting in october of last year. We're a seven member commission with recently one open seat The mission of the joint Essex and Essex housing commission is to help ensure that any resident or aspiring resident of Essex Has access to a home that is affordable Generally no more than 30 percent of household income is spent on housing and I realize Could not be a more challenging time for that for more and more people. Unfortunately It's a desirable type in size for their household and Also very challenging these days Is located with easy access to basic needs via walking biking or public transit Is of sufficient quality to ensure the health safety and enjoyment of its residents Meets housings Meets resident special needs including senior care, ADA accessibility Recovery housing and housing for people who are homeless and is made available Regardless of race religion sex sexual orientation gender identity age national origin pregnancy disability or status of citizenship family and military service In keeping with our mission, we focused on three particular topics since we started meeting Our current focus has been on inclusionary zoning A housing trust fund and landlord or rental surveys Housing trust funds are distinct funds established by city county or state governments that receive ongoing Dedicated sources of public funding to support the preservation and production of affordable housing And increase opportunities for families and individuals to access decent affordable homes We hope to have a proposal for a possible housing trust fund here in Essex in the next two months We will first discuss at a full housing commission meeting early this fall with the intention of bringing a recommendation to both boards later in the fall Inclusionary zoning refers to municipal planning ordinances that require a given chair of new construction to be affordable By people with low to moderate incomes We have a dedicated work group for inclusionary zoning And we will continue to research and prepare to be a part of this conversation In collaboration with the planning boards and staff in the next steps related to inclusionary zoning in Essex Finally rental or landlord surveys We had hoped to see state movement on a rental registry, but that did not pass this year at the state legislature This has been a tricky topic for us as it could be a huge asset to our community But likely a lot of work Especially in the beginning to gather the data on landlords and rental units. There is no readily accessible data source for that in our municipalities Winooski has seen success with their rental registry and landlord outreach and serves as a great resource if we pursue some kind of engagement with our landlords And also we've had outreach and contact with cvoeo If we wanted to change our focus if the boards decided we may want to shift to An engagement strategy with landlords through surveys or other more informal data collection rather than a more formal survey That would be comprehensive So upcoming our next priority is outreach and community engagement We're currently looking at how to be more visible in the community and among the other municipal boards and committees whose work affects housing We will update our webpage on sx.org to include more resources and information to support providers of housing and those seeking housing We will create opportunities for the community to do community to engage with us around housing and other needs related to living in Essex um So That's just a really brief overview of what we've been doing and what we will be doing and then just a Couple more things for you to consider one is Like all of you our housing commission has been talking briefly about the possibility of separation And we are currently a joint commission We currently have four members who live in the village and the town and two who live in the town We are all pledged to serve the mission of the commission to serve both Municipalities and we would hope that that remains unchanged even in the event of separation We are wondering and hoping if our commission might still be a joint municipal group Or if the possible future city of sx junction would need to create their own housing commission that we would still collaborate closely together And finally we have just two requests for you all to consider um One is that we're requesting a change to our charter to allow for our official forum for business to increase from three to four members This will allow more effective teaming in our work groups, which is how we get the majority of um progress done on those three priorities If possible, we ask that this be voted on or decided this evening We currently have no budget other than the support of municipal staff, which is very much appreciated We are requesting a small amount of funding for outreach and communications We don't have a specific number for you this evening, but we would anticipate a small request for items such as food for community events Possibly a consultant for a survey creating and printing flyers that type of item We'll be working with staff to propose a budget for your consideration during the upcoming budget session Thank you Go ahead Evan Uh pass for a clarification. Did you say you're you're asking for a charter change? For your quorum? Yeah the commission from three to four I'm a little confused if you only have six members We have well, we're a seven member board, but yes, but if having three Then you're not in a bind. So you actually want the fourth So that a that three people can't meet and have a meeting Say that one more time So if your quorum is three Yes You can have a meeting if three people come of the six that are currently there and the seven That you're entitled to as I hear what your question is So this is actually not about our full housing commission meeting that we are seeking to have a higher threshold set it's for our work group meetings. So for work group Yes, because if three of us in a work group if three of us can't meet in a work group Without it being a quorum and having to warn a formal public meeting Not that we object to warning formal public meetings It's just a whole another level of work And we are simply trying to to get some work done and move things forward to bring forward to our full commission meeting Okay. Yep. That's the that's the Impetus behind the request over I understand that better now. Thanks. Yeah Gabrielle, thank you for for joining us tonight and giving that That update and sorry. I didn't know you were there. I guess that's one of the downsides to To being virtual not being in the room. So didn't get to see you. I'm here for the table It's great to hear how much is going on within the housing commission and and personally I think you'll those three topics that you discussed for your your subcommittees are perfect Those are some of the main issues that I was hoping that the commission would work on So I'm I'm personally very thrilled to hear that that's where you're coming from One thing I just wanted to quickly address with the the housing trust fund In tonight's meeting. We're going to be talking a little bit about Our budget goals from the joint board perspective But your time frame I think is going to align well As our our budget days are going to be in early november this year So having some of that information available for that meeting would be very beneficial and it would align well good Other than that I don't have any other questions and the only people I can see From my camera angle right now are those who are virtual So if Town meeting TV would have turned the camera over to the rest of the board while George goes ahead That would be helpless. Again. I don't know if anyone has any hands up in the room But George we can't hear you Or at least I can't hear you can't hear you over here. He's something with his headset. Yeah Can't hear you at all George George showing you as being on mute We want to go to someone else and come back to George Are there is there anyone in the room who had it? Okay, Andy Yeah, thanks for your presentation Gabrielle. I'm I'm still confused on the quorum on on maybe we don't need to resolve it here But I'd like to understand better what you're trying to accomplish there, right? So um, the committee the the housing commission is doing a fair amount of our work in three working groups around those three topics we And we can only work in teams of two Because otherwise we would need to be we'd be at a quorum. Are you all are very familiar with this issue, right? so It really is just trying to increase our functionality and getting more work done It's been slowing us down to try and stay in pairs like that and not being able to get We're really lucky that we have staff who's been supporting us and I'm joining us in those meetings, but we're finding serving as a duo in those work groups. It's just been Yeah, it's been slowing our work down And so we we tried to help you by by giving specifically giving you a smaller quorum in the charger So you could have meetings with fewer people. Is that well, I don't know Is that what we did but then we I don't know we hurt you. I don't know Yeah Usually if you've got a quorum is for a quorum of four is fine for us because we we have seven members and we've never been below four Um, we're generally at five to seven so I'm confused where the Three numbers coming from them if it's if it's that is our quorum When we hit three we're at quorum Typically a seven member board four is quorum regardless. It's it's great. Let's do that. That's what we're asking for sounds great I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out where that three number. I don't know. It's what's in our charters So it's in the charter then you have to follow it. So exactly that's why we've come to you I think we were trying to make it easier for you to have a meeting by Allowing you to have a meeting when only three people were present Because of the difficulty of getting people together and yeah, that seems we've proven not to be a difficulty constrained you instead of helped you Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. I understand that. Good. Um, my my other question, um, and maybe it's related to some of these topics is the the The um housing needs assessment that was done Shortly before the commission was formed within a year or two before that. Um There was a a comment in there that um, a large percentage of Essex renters were not that were were not receiving A rental assistance, although they were They qualified for it And so I'm wondering if that's something that the commission has looked at at all is how to educate folks that aren't getting the Assistance they need on their rent You know, you know, is there a way that they can get that? um, unless I'm miss under miss reading that that statement in the It was you know, it was one of those statements that was pulled out in the block by itself and said I forgot what the number was some percentage of eligible renters are not getting assistance that that they Are eligible for Um, it's it's been we it's come up in our meeting I would not say it's something we have in in the in the depth of that report that we have focused on but I will take it back to the commission Yeah, thank you. Thank you George, we want to try that again Can you hear me? Can hear you perfectly fine. All right. All right. We switch microphones. Um Everyone, thanks for coming. I'm just curious if you had if your commission had anything to do with the Approval the vhf a approval for the uh depot junction building that's going up here on maple street Uh at five corners. Um, they just got approval for I are you familiar with what i'm talking about? No, not off hand Okay, um I should say i'm familiar with The building you're talking about and i'm familiar with vhf a but i i i guess i need you to finish talking about All right. So I wasn't sure if you knew about this. So they they were approved for um to Provide assistance for every anyone any renters who have less than 60 percent of median income Um, and they have seven units that are going to be set aside for people who are I threatened with homelessness. I didn't know if I wasn't sure if you you guys had Had participated in setting that up or Or I'm aware and know what we weren't involved in So that yeah, okay. I think we just got briefed on that by uh by staff at our last housing commission meeting All right. Okay. Thank you Are there any other questions from board members including those in the room? Evan's raising his hand Just go ahead Evan one quick question Gabriel. Do you have a sense of what the area's total need? The deficit of the need of the housing is Wow, uh, I would say that in the time of the report to which Andy was referring and now Um, I can't even begin to fathom what I know it. It's horrifying. I mean, I think we all know it's thousands of units It's yeah, we are I mean vermont is we talked about this a little bit at our last meeting and one of the many aha moments I had was thinking about how this is sort of um You know, it's an it's an overlapping of different factors coming to play and one of them is that vermont um for all of our beauty and you know and open spaces Is a very low development state and that just has accrued over time um and uh So we're now seeing that there is just no there's just such a low amount of possible inventory for the demand that we're seeing um, so what i'm learning about and also hearing about Just from living in the community Is you have pressures coming from from all sides at this point and it's we're driving the level of what is affordable continues to rise and um in my own neighborhood where I just I mean countryside neighborhood You can't it's hard to find a home in there for under $400,000. You know, this is um It's a real crisis that then push puts pressure on our rental incomes and now people are commuting farther So I haven't I have heard nothing specific about the the numbers although I think there's something called the ACS anybody else familiar with that concept out there? What is that same for Greg? Thank you American Something survey and that comes out much more frequently than the census and there are some numbers in there that are also um That you can look at to more to more the county level and more the community level and see but I think it's it's not hard to to imagine how much More difficult it is in our community for people to To find housing to get into the housing market to find a rental unit one of the things we have been talking about in the commission is accessory dwelling units or ad use and those are where um people who have um A single family home at another unit on um and given how many people are struggling with Staying in their own homes or you know as they their children get older or their home is aging That may be another small inroad Into increasing the number of units available in our community and we have talked about how the housing commission and um could possibly support that um to education awareness around that and well um I think we'll be talking about that Additionally, we'll bring some more information forward to you, but certainly I think we can all appreciate um Just what a difficult situation Essex is that people who want to live and work in Essex And anywhere in this it's not just chitin county in vermont anymore This is all over the whole region in the nation. So Yeah, I think there's the acs is where I would certainly refer people who want to see more detailed numbers Beyond the report that andy's referring to So we've been thinking about big and small ways, you know, there's Trying to find that balance between how we invest the time of our commission and fulfill the priorities given to us by the boards And also make some small inroads and opportunities for the community to think about how to address some of these really severe housing shortages that people Any income bracket are experiencing these days Thanks, Evan Go ahead, tracy um I I heard you define affordability as no more than 30 of a household income By one metric. Yeah, that's the metric that was given to us in our mission Okay, is there another metric that you've talked about for instance Tying it to a certain percentage of the median income in vermont, which would give you it wouldn't change from household to household It would come out to be a certain number and then you can compare that against You know medium housing costs medium rent rental cost in in asex Is there been any discussion Is using that as a metric And no, we haven't talked about changing our charter to to reflect the mission to change the mission that was given to us by the Boards by that what I read to you is the definition that was given to us by the boards um, we've talked with A lot of different providers Champlain housing trusts and others that do use different metrics And so we are aware that there are different metrics out there to qualify what does affordability look like Yeah, so is there I guess I'll take that segue Is there any interest on the commission to adding another metric to the charter?  Thanks. Thank you board members anything else So we have that question ahead of us on changing the quorum I did see that on page two of the housing commission's charter There's a paragraph called operations and it states a quorum shall consist of three members And so they are asking our willingness to change that to four Uh as far as I'm concerned if the commission is asking to make it Uh harder for them to have a quorum at their own at their own will it's completely fine by me if that has them to a complex commission Does anybody have anything else you'd like to add to that? Or would we want to just go ahead and Make such a motion To make that change I want to make sure that there's time for both boards in case there's other concerns Andrew quick question. You have the charter right up in front of you Uh when it defines to the metric of no more than 30 percent Of median or household income Would it be possible based on that language to just insert a statement of or other metric as defined by the commission? Uh just to give them some scalability as far as what metric they want to use We can certainly do that if the boards would like to I don't see the harm in it I'll just make a note. Tracy. I pulled this off the website. It does say is affordable in parentheses Generally, you know more than 30 percent of household income is spent on housing, but that doesn't address other metrics. Okay. Yeah Is that Go ahead, rock. Is that something that maybe is more Significant than simply changing the quorum and maybe the commission wants to Discuss or I don't know. Uh, I I can't it doesn't it doesn't sound serious like this, but I just don't Yeah, I hear your roge. Um, I appreciate that. Tracy's suggestion sounds really flexible to me You're not requiring that we consider other metrics or dictating what those metrics are so Again, I appreciate what roge is saying. We may want to you may want to give us time to come back to the full board And certainly without katie here as our chair um But I Given that it's within your purview to change our charter tonight or any other night Maybe it's something we wait until a future meeting, but it's certainly something that is entirely at your discretion so I don't I don't feel strongly against it personally, but i'm just one commissioner So would the boards be okay with just moving forward on changing the quorum size and leaving The data piece for the commission to go ahead discuss and come back to us at another point in time With such a request Sure. Yep. I'm good with that Thank you for the thumbs So there are a couple hands up in the room here in the public. I don't know if you want to take public comment at this point You certainly can um since Andy since I can't see who they are Would you find leading that part in the room and I can take care of it online? Barbara asked for a point of order. So can you come up to the microphone? Please so Be heard not quite sure parliamentarily whether it's a point of order or point of information, but I would suggest to you that you might want to Consult with legal because I wonder if by changing the quorum of this committee that you're you're setting a precedent for uh establishing a different level of quorums to avoid a situation that may be seen as Trying to avoid either A public meeting rule or otherwise. So I would just suggest you might want to look into that. Thank you Thanks, Barbara um Irene you also had your hand up. Did you Okay, okay. Okay, Andrew. So I guess there was just one comment in the room. I do see one hand up online Uh Andy champagne I don't know if that's a new hand or if that's uh from public to be heard. It's a new hand. Okay, go ahead Yeah, I'd like to say something about the this time the housing in this town is out of control and ridiculous We don't even get a taco bell or chipotle All we have is a rundown 200 milliliter five, which is going to close any day now I really don't understand how people can afford $450,000 household or even why they would want one You didn't get a real nice house for that and all of your Rochester, New York and their economy is a lot better too We need to be more like them Thank you I see no other Hands up Yep, marine's alone go ahead. All right. Sorry. Just a quick question. Gabby. Thanks for the presentation Very happy to see this on the agenda. So thank you both boards for allowing the time for that Um, I was just wondering what kind of collaboration Your commission has with the shampoos housing trust Thanks, Lorraine. Sorry mask caught on glasses We don't have any Formal or informal collaboration with the shampoos housing trust, but they've been a wonderful resource for us and they have come and spoken with us to Inform us of what they do and how that might possibly relate to the work of the housing commission Does that answer your question Lorraine? Yeah, it does. I was just thinking in terms of not reinventing the wheel When I heard you mentioned the trust potentially Yeah, so You know So that's kind of why I came up and I had because they do such good work And I know they purchased here in Essex as well And I was just thinking it seemed like a good fit and so I was just wondering If that's something that the shampoos housing trust does is work at that kind of granular level So it's it's similar there. There are also that's an that's a housing trust fund And this would be a housing trust fund. This would be a municipal housing trust fund that we would consider proposing to all of you and recommending Where the municipal funds are used To generally to leverage investment in the community for affordable housing And there are several examples In our state Montpelier has won Charlotte has won We've actually spoken to many of these housing trust funds to get a sense of whether it would be a good fit for Essex So I think that If Essex were to create its own housing trust fund it would be Really potentially a compliment to the work of shampoos housing trust and that there could potentially down the road be some opportunities to leverage that for community development block grant fund monies and in a community shampoos housing situation, but That's all specular living down the road, but it's a municipal housing trust fund is As a similar purpose, but it is distinct from a non-profit housing trust fund like Champlain They do great work though. I'm right with you. I mean, we've been hearing lots of Lots of information from them. It's been great Thank you and good to good to know because I sound if i'm understanding you right because I don't know a lot about how it works is the trust fund, but It sounds to me like if i'm understanding you right often when you get a block grant You have to put in your own funds that kind of what you mean by leveraging. Okay whole example. Yeah Thank you so much Gabby. You're welcome Well, I see no other hands up and just to piggyback on that comment for a moment I did work in that that arena for a couple of years and I can just say that if you look at the south Burlington city center and the new market street The first building or the second building to go up was a low-income about affordable housing development that was utilized They utilize that low-income housing tax credit as well as community development funds through the state as well as south Burlington's housing trust fund money And that has helped to create the the long-term plan for that redevelopment of market street in south Burlington So they can those funds can certainly be very helpful in spurring the kind of development that's Parts of our community have asked for So seeing that there's no other hands two additional hands came up in the in the room here Mary Thank you. This is a question. It's not a statement. I really don't know but I've always wondered When the planning commission meets and they talk about a new housing development that's coming And always it's kind of throwing the word affordable and yet seems to me that lately a lot of the housing Developments that have happened the houses are at least $450,000 a piece before covid raised all the prices so is there anything that a community can do to try to dampen down The things that are being built and the charges that are the the cost that's being charged So that we could could we put in some? Developments that would be affordable You know enforce that somehow on the developers I just don't know Want to answer that? Thank you I wish I wish one of my colleagues Mia Watson was here. She's really knowledgeable about all this. Um, I That is part of what I believe could be accomplished through inclusionary zoning regulations and ordinances that would put restrictions In certain development situations where a developer In order to get permission to build from all of you from the planning commissions would Have to have a certain percentage of units that are affordable By whatever metric you establish in the ordinance We are seeing some of that happen. I think someone earlier mentioned that there is some on maple street There's george did um that there's some affordable units going in there at 60 percent which May may sound really um Like a high percentage. It's a different metric. It's 60 percent of the I'm gonna eat median income. Thank you of the median income. So it's different than 30 percent of your income so it is Mary that's like the question we all ask ourselves at almost every meeting is what can we do? To try to Bring it's it's tempting right any of us. I've sold my house in the past year. It's awfully tempting not to take the highest bidder and It's it's it's amazing what we all can get when we're a seller these days but Everything has a ripple effect and I know that It's It's the same thing that motivates any of us to get the best price we possibly can for our real estate motivates a developer so I think that as a community if we were to prioritize trying to make affordable housing a more Available in our community. We're taking the right steps. You've established the housing commission You've got some great people in our commission some really knowledgeable people about housing. My my curve has been huge I'm not an expert in this field and Just really dedicating ourselves to be a resource for all of you and for the other commission members In our in our municipalities on this topic Thank you all for having me here Is there are there another question? Did you want to Yeah, if I could just add to what Gabrielle said and to respond to Mary The development codes in subdivision regulations zoning regulations also provide density bonuses in a lot of cases so if A developer Promises to include some affordable housing in a project. They can usually build more homes and would be allowed otherwise It doesn't always get taken advantage of but it is a tool and it's something that I believe our planning commissions and Housing commission and community development departments always consider and look at as far as how to make that useful for developers Okay, then Betsy Dunn also had a question Betsy Dunn and this is more of a statement. I'm really thrilled that we had a report from the commission on the housing Today and I know that Andy you had said when you first took over the chair of this Of our select board that you would like to have All of our different committees and commissions that we have for the town Come and do a presentation periodically And that's something that hasn't happened yet. I know we've been in inundated with the separation and what's going on there But I think that it's valuable because then people hear what's going on and they may get excited and want to join a commission or a committee That needs membership And hearing what's happening in the in this town is really important and we have some very very Vibrant committees that we've got going on So I look forward to seeing this and I only realize that you weren't making the agenda And only evan makes the agenda. So maybe evan can Slide those things in more frequently. Thank you Betsy any other hands in the room Rock is all your handles up Yeah, Gabrielle real quick Based on a couple comments that just I think you just made Or is the commission engaging with Another village planning commission as we is looking again at the land development code I want to think they're a little probably a little more than midway through it. I'm guessing I'm trying to get caught up Um, it's pretty dense.  It's hard for me But I didn't know if you all engaging With them at all on this topic and I don't know the process very well So I'm not aware if they finish this round if it has to wait a certain period of time Before it can be revisited Um, I don't just something I thought about what during this the q&a that you all just went through So have you all Met with them at all or We have not met with them at all Uh, and that is part of what is our ambition for the coming year is that you again We just started meeting not you know in october And so it took it took us frankly just a few months to get our feet under us and uh People like me who had a lot of work to do to even begin to be um useful in that conversation and um Diane clements from the village planning commission came to a recent meeting Which was fantastic to have someone firsthand there listening and we we plan to do more of the same to go to their meetings and Learn ourselves. There's a lot. There's a lot to learn So I would say that um I think I think it's in their meeting in september. They're doing a bit even more progress on this So no we have not but I would anticipate in certainly in in you know in the coming I hate to say the coming years But I would say in the coming years that we'll we'll be able to be more collaborative with each other as as the housing commission You know Is has been around long enough to have our own sense of Where we fit into the the larger picture of housing in in asics Great. Thank you. Thank you so seeing Thank you. Gabrielle Seeing no other hands up. Are we ready to go to make that decision on moving to four members for our forum? That's nice. Do you want to check to make sure we're not setting precedents like well The the My view on that is I think by putting a Clause in the charter that said that three Was a quorum one with a Seven-member board. I think that's the exception we've made and we're going back to a more normal situation Where we go to a majority of the board being considered For so I think we're removing and it in my view. I think we're removing an exception rather than creating one I don't know if that that any think I'm Concerned I don't have a concern with it As long as they meet the open meetings act, wouldn't they meet? I think if I'm not mistaken if it's unspoken it falls to roberts rules and roberts rules is 50 Plus one so I I feel comfortable with Sounds like we're okay with it on this side randor with one of the From the trustees if one of the trustees would like to make a motion to change the housing commission's charter So that a quorum shall consist of four members. I would entertain that motion That moves Second. Thank you. George. Thank you. Raj. Is there any further discussion on that motion? Hearing none of those in favor signify by saying aye. Bye Anybody oppose? Thank you. Okay, select board. So anyone make the motion I'll make the motion to update the housing commission's charter so that a quorum is defined as four members Second Thank you. Tracy. Thank you. Don any further discussion? Those in favor, please say aye Aye nay Okay, motion passes four zero Thank you all Thank you. Gabrielle. Thank you. Gabrielle Next on our agenda. We have a discussion and possible action on the tree farm lease So for those of us who are virtual, I'm assuming brad and or alley are walking up to the mic right now Ready to Sure So I think you can see from the memo And the supporting materials the question is whether or not this like board and trustees want to renew The lease agreement and the management agreement and the mo you with the tree farm management group The tree farm management group is a private organization non-profit vermont non-profit organization who has been managing The tree farm parcel which is co-owned by the village and the town And they are Next july will be ending their second 10-year agreement and Ali and I are recommending that That agreement not be renewed for another Set of it amount of time and that instead The municipality control the municipal land and manage it Our intention is not to make any drastic changes for the user groups who have enjoyed this facility The tree farm management group has done a great job of managing it for the past 20 plus years We just think that the the time is different now and that There are two rec departments who are capable of managing the property and it's in the best interests of the citizens to have a property that Not only serves for the pay-to-play sports but also Offers other opportunities whether it be recreational or passive recreation Um that this facility um really has developed almost more into a public park As well as an elite sports facility So i'm not sure if ali was going to add anything or if we're ready to No, um that that covers the the recommendation Um on what we've we've been discussing over the oh for a while Great. Thank you ali. Thank you brad as well um so uh One thing i'm i'd like to make sure gets heard is for those who may be current users whether they are Uh adults whether they are youth whether they are uh the parents for the youth who have Utilized the facility over the years Um, what do what would we say to those individuals in terms of what their experience would be with this type of a With this arrangement? um our our hope is that the arrangement would be Similar to their current experience and their past experience that they've had with the facility and that um rules and ordinances policies all of that would also align with our two departments to support the land over there So those who may be using the facility for uh for soccer or other recreational sports for instance should not be concerned about Next year not being able to utilize those fields for that purpose. Should they No No, not only use it and you know, I think it's really important to honor the historical use in terms of Which groups are utilizing the facility tournaments and those types of things? Fee agreements that some of those groups who have been longtime board members Or had seats on the board, uh, whatever those agreements are. I mean our intention is Is not to change those things And certainly, you know keep all of those things going I think what our intention is is to bring a holistic approach To the parcel So that it's not just, you know Three soccer organizations and one rugby organization that are that are controlling Who gets to use it when? But to to allow the community To to have a say and enjoyment of the facility as well You know, I think having public management So that you know, there have been some issues with dogs and and other Things that have gone on that facility that by having it be publicly managed The members of the community will have the opportunity to come before the boards come before the recreation directors and the manager address those concerns and have them dealt with just like all other matters are dealt with With regards to our public property Thank you. Brad. Thank you Ali George, why don't you go ahead? Yeah, um, Brad and Ali The when the state handed over or transferred ownership of the property to the village in the town Um, were there are there restrictions on use? I know that there's something in there about field sports or something like that But it's certainly not for the entire property. Most of the property isn't even flat. It goes up the side of the hill there Um, but there are there are no restrictions. There's nothing in the covenant that was handed over by the state. Um, That said it's restricted solely to soccer or Rugby or something we we could use it for any number of things. Is that correct? Yeah, there are some restrictions on the property, but it is mainly that it cannot be used for commercial use Yeah, it's educational agricultural and recreational uses and prohibiting development for housing commercial or industrial use Right, but it's generally recreational use, but that's I just want to make sure that it wasn't I know that there was some confusion I've heard over the years because Originally, it was it was it set up exclusively as a soccer facility But that that was not by it by some legal mandate. That was just how things happen That was just a circumstance at the time. Um, but it's not exclusively to be used for soccer and And rumping correct correct And just to add the when the free farm management group Uh began it was a larger group with more representation. It's just um For no other reason but filtering out and and people changing positions and Um, if they're affiliated with the organization anymore or not Um, so I know that the management group has been larger and the bylaws Uh indicate representation from the high school and from residents and things like that. So Um, it just Has gotten smaller over the years Okay, thank you And I would just add to that You know, it's in it's in the materials, but we haven't said it allowed that we are advocating For an advisory board for the property to include, you know, the current membership of the tree farm management group as well as bring in some others Uh, we do still want their input on the property and its use and and the policies and practices around it Um, but just general management to be municipal Go ahead, roge Allie and brad, I think this is great. Thanks for bringing this forward. Um, I support the the plan Um, I think the right times have changed. I think it's great to bring it under the municipal umbrella I'm wondering, um You know field sports if um Down the road we can get some representation on the advisory board from softball little league baseball little league um And one of the hopes I have is that we can Look at this parcel as providing some flexibility. You know, there's a rugby field at the tree farm. There's a rugby field at maple street Um, you know having this facility might be able to move some of that stuff around creating opportunities in the other park You know, things like that. I I think I think that's a great reason To to bring this under under municipal management because it it provides both communities with that flexibility to to really look at the entire inventory of of space and and And see where they can serve we we for instance Baseball and softball families to some fairly large tournaments that would you know, just like lacrosse and soccer tournaments and there's you know for for softball or baseball fields, you know home plate to home plate that would Essentially take up, you know, one and a half soccer fields or two, you know, so I hope down the line that that advisory that advisory board would it would would open up a little bit to the other field sports um And and like I said, you know really take into account All of the facilities we have in the community And and be willing to be open about where those end up But yeah, I think this is a good plan So I'm not seeing hands up from other board members virtually Tracy, I think I see your hand going being raised Yeah, I have a couple of questions. Um, the first is around What would be the financial impact of doing this? What would be the impact on staff? And I'll hold my other questions until after that We've we've heard repeatedly that staffer have so much to do So I just want to make sure that we're walking into this with our eyes wide open I mean the management group has done a great job Felt sustaining the facility at no cost to the taxpayers besides the initial purchase that the town and village went in on um, and you know besides looking at You know, um capital improvements and things like that. We have staff right now Based on our seasonal staff that also come in between the two departments And overseeing them at the facility um, we'll kind of You know station them and not add You know much to the budget and what we have talked about in regards to staffing Um, and I guess my next question is like I see a lot of folks here Um, but my question is are there members of the current tree farm management group board? Um that have input on, you know pain points. What's working? What's not? You know sort of how we got to to this point from a management perspective Yeah, so ali serves on the tree farm management group board as well as harland smith Who is the grounds and facilities director at ejrp? So they ali has been on it for quite a long time. Um, so they're both pretty Pretty involved and attend all of their regular meetings. There are members On the board that are here tonight Virtually are in person. So Yeah, and for me, I would just like to hear from members of the board just to get their input and and feedback rather than Not having that especially um, so that the public can can hear it and be informed Just just so you're aware we typically have discussion with the board the board members first and then we'll we'll go to the public You'll have the opportunity to speak then. Yeah Tracey, did you have other questions? Oh, that's it from Don's got her hand up My question is out. You just said you could do a seasonal staff a seasonal staff like your summer staff leave So you're are you saying you're going to take a seasonal staff person higher up to go over there to work? So there will be that increase Um, that is something that we have talked about is to take one of our um Experience seasonal staff and to have them kind of oversee the facility with you know, a couple others Who would be more seasonal than that initial person? um, again, that would be part of the landscaping maintenance Contract that the tree farm management group already pays toward um in order to to staff that through the end of october early november when the tree farm usually sees the end of its activity And if you look at any budget for that Yeah, we don't expect that there should be any increase this this entire Um facility would live in an enterprise fund and all of the revenues that are generated Are generated through the use and through the rentals will pay for the the maintenance Um for all of the direct costs I think the indirect costs would be the program people who are in the office who would then you know Be responsible for the booking and the management um, but when it comes to Any any of the work that needs to go on over there. It would all be paid for from user fees No, I'm good. We've talked about the tree farm Several times before and you guys have provided great answers. So I do want to hear obviously tracy from members But I think that though we just uh, if we could sort of piggybacking on tracy If when we get to the public if you could identify yourself if you're associated with the tree farm group that way We have an idea because I don't know except for the two pointed out The question question I have is um Our next agenda item is talking about separation discussions and one of the Items in the proposal that we got from the trustees was a proposal for how to to share management of this property and um It it there's some The the the question the concern I have or the question I have is Is there a risk that if we don't come to agreement on how to co-manage this property Could we miss a season or two while we're struggling with trying to figure out how to Get our feet on the ground with this um, and would it be more appropriate to wait Five or six years or something to let the dust settle on separation So that we're not You know sacrificing a season. I'm just you don't have any thoughts on that is a problem I don't have any concerns. No, I mean, I think the proposal is to extend their agreement through november of 2022 Um, so that's obviously 14 months from now Uh, and then their their actual season, you know, doesn't begin until may so that's another six months from them From then but I would think that in the next 14 months Um, the boards have lots of things to sort out that it would seem like, you know Figuring out how to manage a hundred acre parcel could be accomplished Hey, that was my question If you were to see your hand is back up Yeah, I I just prompted I wanted to remember one thing. Um But Ali right now. I mean the basically right now is being run as an enterprise fund I think that's how we would define it in um in our world Um, and do you have a sense of how much revenue? Goes through their your budget. How much what do they usually budget for how much do they usually spend? How much do they take in and spend their meter? Do you have a sense of that? Um, I should have a sense of it since we had a meeting last week Uh I'm gonna look to spend that we're at 100 and Okay, I can share that Half of the finance team is here and share that. Okay They can they can share that they can't When it's his turn they cannot I'm sorry. I didn't understand They will share the information when it's his turn Oh, you can't share it with me now He has better accuracy with all of that In his okay, and I do Okay, the landscape contract is about 85 thousand for the base base landscape and we bring in over 110 130 150,000 150 150 is what the projection is I can't I'm gonna uh, if you don't mind Andrew. I think can I just ask the question since Um, this is municipal property and I'm asking what the budget is But we don't know what the budget is does someone in our In in in the village or the town actually know what the budget is Or is this not approved by us or how does this happen? How do we have a municipal operation? Um, where we don't ever see the budget I'm not somebody to clarify that and I know the person from the tree farm is going to speak but I'm wondering if someone from The staff could answer that question is there no process by which we look at their budget and and improve their budget and know What's actually going on over there? Is there some sort of fiduciary control over what's taking place there? Thank you It's not a municipal operation It's a lease to this tree farm group and they were never required to submit a budget Or another document to us at least But this gentleman and your name is My name is fine off. I'm on the tree farm board is about to Give some information. So Um, I will say I am a new Person on the board two years in I represent s6 united on the tree farm management board I work with ali and harlan who I believe is on on the video, um I will say this year's numbers I don't really have much of a historical perspective in terms of finances, but this year we're projected Well, we were planning on 100 and 10 115 thousand dollars in revenue I think we're on pace to be around 150 155 this year The turnout for field rentals has been really really strong expenses wise, um We just went through a change in land in the company who I guess Manages the power cuts the grass and the fertilizers and all that stuff So we're kind of learning as we go, but we're projected I think for expenses to be right around 110 Um, that's a really rough number Season's not over yet. Um We are hoping to have net income this year. Hopefully put in the bank and reinvest in the property But I will talk later when when I'm ready Thank you for that Were there other board member Comments questions Andy any in the the room from the board members like those select boards I'll set Okay, um, if the board is okay, uh, I know I've heard a couple of questions about Um, the intent and the history I know that we have um members of public who have already raised their hand But we also have a member of the public online Steve Eustis where he was one of the trustees Uh at the time when this first became a uh when the tree farm first became um an entity or a Thing if you will within our community And so I've asked Steve if he'd be willing to to go over the the history. So if you don't mind Steve if you're on now if you could go ahead and go over A bit of how the tree farm came to be and then that'll also transition into public comments Sure, um, thank you, Andrew I recall at the time when I was on the board, uh trustees You know 20 years ago You know the vision for the property 100 acres lots of use passive record recreation And we even at that point in time we didn't have a sidewalk on old coolchester road um to the facility And um, you know, I brought that up with the state at the time and you know now improvements made with the path put in the pay path access out to To a and then down to the high school so that People in the community could go there and and use the property for recreation Not having to drive a car there and obviously It was parking as well, but I'm trying to accommodate both. So Soccer and field sports were certainly on the mind at the time, but we also knew of the trails and the entire property In in the forest and So we're going to talk to that that whole thing and I think You know what I hear red and alley proposing is again not changing Or taking anything that's been going on and stopping it but rather adding to it going back to that original vision and trying to You know make use of the whole property, you know for people So and I have other comments if you'd like me to go, but that was kind of my reflection from when I was on the board of trustees I Steve when it was coming to be What was the plan in terms of the openness of the the tree farm Well that people, you know, it was supposed to be there for for recreation. It was supposed to be available at all times You know during the daytime, you know, you know, certainly not the middle of the night But during the daytime people should be allowed to get there And that's you know, one of the things I wanted to address in my my comments Then go why don't you go ahead and all right? Well, um, I noticed in the in the last couple years The they've locked the facility. So there is no way to During the daytime hours like if I want to go to the tree farm At lunchtime or in the morning before it gets hot. It's locked and I can't get in Uh, so there's no parking and even if you go to autumn pond way, you can see signs no tree farm parking So clearly people have tried to park there as as well in the neighboring neighborhood, so I'm very concerned about that And to me Someone should be maintaining the property so that the public can can enjoy it So that's important to me and then Also, I believe The non-field areas are not being maintained As noted in the various attachments in the in the packet say that they are Supposed to be maintained and some could have you know, people sometimes have different levels of maintenance Um, and and I think we're failing at all of them. Um, the the paths aren't even mowed such that You know, some of the paths deep in the forest you can You know, people can figure them out, but you know, who wants to walk through two foot high um vegetation and worry about ticks and things like that Or you know in the field area like the trails that go along the edge of the field You don't even know where the trail is and um A lot of volunteers Come together I know I spend at least a couple dozen hours a year trying to ready the cross-country trails for the school Invitational that's every labor day weekend and You know, we shouldn't have to do that It's it's in the in the contract that it's supposed to be maintained and not the the rec department's been helpful The school's been helpful um, but the management group is is not doing that that requirement and and things like trails You you need to stay on top of because if you let them go then you start to have Wash issues and the materials will wash away And then it becomes more costly down the road So here we have this wonderful site where teams from all over the state of vermont come to run cross country every labor day and um, and it's again Volunteers who are pulling this together and it shouldn't have to be be that way It should be just maintained and then people can't even enjoy running on the trails until after labor day when they're finally In good shape until until snow falls um, I already talked about the access being an issue um And I I think if I kind of put from my perspective and and I have no problem with field sports and all that. I think it's great. Um, I'm more of a passive recreation person running walking hiking um, but I kind of view this almost as if someone were to look at maple street park And we were contracting out um to Another group to manage the pool and they had oversight of the whole maple street park though But their focus was the pool and all they did was you know They had swim meets and all these great things and the pool was awesome And they didn't worry about any of the courts or the or the baseball fields or anything else and just kind of left it go and um, that's kind of what I feel is going on on this property and so I I really like the vision of the of the alley and brad and the and the rec departments to Really utilize the whole property? Um for the benefit of the entire community and not just players of field sports again. We're not gonna I'm not suggesting the fields sports get excluded at all But um, let's allow all uses of passive recreation I'm kind of like the original vision from 20 years ago So Anyway, those are my comments Thank you, steve So we'll go in a reverse order this time of we'll do teams first And then after everyone on microsoft teams has had the chance and we'll go into the room Um So again, if you're using microsoft teams, please make sure to raise your hand if you want to speak to the board about this item And so going down the list It looks like elite eight soccer league I'm not sure who that actually is But you're first on the list if you could unmute yourself and let us know who you are the floor is yours Uh, thank you. Uh, so yeah elite eight soccer league is Uh an adult men's adult soccer league that I run. My name is mike I live locally here in essence junction. I've been Working with the tree farm management group to rent field space there for about five years now My league represents about 200 200 male adult players I run about 130 to 140 hours From the tree farm to host my games Between may and october Um, I can't really speak to I think his name was steven the last guy who was speaking I can't really comment on his What are you saying about the original vision of the facility? But I've been playing soccer at the tree farm for for 15 16 years now. Um So As a current renter, you know, my big concern is that basically in in brad and alley's opening statements They use the words intention and hope That the structure will remain the same for the current users. Um But intention and hope isn't really Concrete in my opinion So as a person who's been renting field space there and honestly My league the success of my league kind of hinges on the tree farm as a soccer facility Um, I'm just wondering what you're planning on doing to sort of stand by your current renters Will we be grandfathered in? Uh to the amount of hours that we currently have and technically my league is growing I could take more hours to be honest with you. Um Um And as it currently stands just speaking from a scheduling perspective, um, there's definitely a peak season at the tree farm. It's Uh, it's early in the spring and then later in the fall and you it definitely slows down a little bit mid june To mid august like right now There's myself running a league and one other guy who's running a soccer league and uh rugby starts to ramp up a little bit But it gets a little bit slower But my big concern is that if you guys start bringing in baseball across ultimate frisbee Whatever else you're essentially going to be taking time away from soccer organizations Who have pretty much already tapped out the rental hours at the facility And spreading those across multiple sports. So now you're basically taking a soccer facility That actually doesn't even have enough time to to accommodate soccer And then you're going to be kind of divvying up those hours and everybody's you know Baseball is going to get an inadequate number of hours. Soccer will get an inadequate number of hours um And so on down the line. So I don't know if Expanding it to other sports is really the Best plan. Um, some of the other ideas in here are you know, they sound good But there's definitely a current lack of time to support the needs of the soccer community. So Uh big question is what do you guys do and help me out? Because there aren't many other places for me to go if I lose The hours that I currently rent from the facility Thank you, mike Uh next on the list we have andy champagne Can you hear me? So all right. So there's someone just took a note of my concern and that's how it gets dealt with Or do we actually have a question and I just don't know how this process goes. Yeah, sorry about that, mike. Um Generally, yes, if you let us know what your questions concerns are When that concludes If we have answers to those we will address them if we don't we'll say that we we don't have answers to those But this point in time where we're collecting information Okay, great, and you can provide an email address. Maybe I can more formally submit that feedback and question All right, if you ever want, it's not necessary. It's not necessary You're always more than welcome to email any of us on on the trustees. I'm surely select board to feel the same way I know our email addresses are all are all online on our websites sxbt.org and sxjunction.org Um, I'm just not going to take the time right now. Please don't take offense of it By listing out what our email addresses are So andy champagne go right ahead Surprise surprise first it was a memorial hall and now they're after Now it's a tree farm. Of course, it all comes out of left field It's clearly some political act from the town manager director of sx central parks and rec department Almost as bad as Andrew Brown's try find resources that they can grab so they can justify increasing their departments and budgets This way it'll look better when it comes to presenting a big budget to the villagers for separation nice $150,000 budget Of course sx junction parks and rec couldn't manage a parks department to save their lives Even though the director has a 700 thousand dollar budget and a five million Village budget they could tap into they really needed to Maple street park is overcrowded. They use precious parking spots and park into park buses on the weekend So patrons have to park park at 80 ellen watt. They leave equipment out unattended such as a garden hose Broken bleachers in the backfield and now there's violence going on there too. Not surprised Cascade park has graffiti on the green wall by the basketball courts and the bushes behind the basketball fence has taken over the fence Pearl street park has a nine hole disc golf course And neither the town manager director had the time to fire off a simple email to it telling him to update the website Again more graffiti on the back of the basketball back for tons of stumps downward This is really all simple stuff that can be fixed if I Walk through the parks and a phone call of the grounds crew Oh and stevens park given the state of the parkers and one could conclude that they don't even know where it is These areas are cold and cruel Steven's park was donated to the village by the stevens family when someone gives you something you're supposed to take care of it When I was growing up that park had a full play set and it was quite nice to hang out and ride my bike in Today, there's uprooted tree stumps lots of dead trees one that is going to destroy some guy's fence and garden intersales That falls downwood huge soil erosion issues. They don't even care to mow the grass The grass was thigh high when I walked through there in june It took them till july to finally mow. There's houses on nicholas court worth half a million bucks Stevens park has got to be worth five million to some developer And these two don't even have the decency to recommend to the trustees to give it back to the stevens families Since they really have no use for it I'm sure the stevens family could use the money This is just the stuff that I found when I went walking through the park If someone with real knowledge on how to run parks and rec department went through the department quite certain They would find a huge mess his clear neither the town manager sx parks rec director Know how to take care of parks or even even though they have advanced degrees and six figure salads I was talking to the tree farm over the weekend I'm fine from listening to and hold on please for one moment. I'm perfectly fine with you as those of us who are elected officials We um put ourselves out there and at times have a uh By doing so can get ridiculed be little made fun of so on and so forth and that's protected speech I ask you though to please be respectful of our staff and to please uh not put forward judgments In the way that you are please keep your comments civil If you have factual information like of the quality of the of what you've experienced, please keep it at that level Okay, i'm just a civil guy. I'm just a normal guy. I don't know really what you're talking about But if you just let me finish my my talk I would I would appreciate that um You hand it you hand that tree farm over to the town manager in the sx rec department They're going to run that place into the ground take all the money and use it somewhere else um Andy Watts told me a couple weeks ago during the select more meeting The town manager sets the agenda. It's clear that's a select board and the trustees are not in charge The town and village are being run by the town manager It's time for the boards to start putting him in place If they can't do that need to find members who will It's time for someone to make the motion to get the town manager resignation. Thank you Yes, Pat Yes, certainly There is an amount of public speech that's allowed and allowable in these meetings, but These meetings have also and I believe both boards have agreed to the rules that there's an amount of civility to them um, Mr. Champagne you accused our staff of I believe Attempting to money launder in your previous statement. You may be a simple man But you still must remain civil at these meetings You are protected speech But up against the rules of civility here So you can say what you want about us and public officials But I will not stand here and have you accuse our staff of embezzling money If you cannot keep your comments civil Then you need to hold them and you can send them to us or you can send them off to a publisher All protected speech You mean don't ridicule you in in public form such as this so you can't take heat for it. Yeah, sure With you if you have a problem What about the elected officials not our hired staff, please can we move on? Yeah Okay, so next on who lives if we have dylan macamara All right, thanks for having me andrew. I just wanted to speak. I'm a community member.  I coach help out and I coach cross country Um, and I want to say as a community member. I've certainly enjoyed the fields my my kids played soccer there And um still use the fields today. I think it's a great asset for a community to have I think as we look forward and move forward In terms of future management, I I agree 110 with some of the points that steve use dismayed we do need to make sure that Uh that the management company is is taking Uh the interest of all the users In mind and so for example the last year our cross country team The boys and girls were not really able to use that those trails. There was a lot of hazards on the course And frankly it forced us to go and run on roads and and instead of, you know, Leverage the trails that are in the backyard of the high school. So I think as we move forward Uh an approach to management that looks beyond the fields Maintains the trails Make sure that they're accessible for for all people during reasonable hours I think that's that's an really important point that can't be overstated and I'd just like to you know advocate for a shift in management that can Accomplish that so thanks for letting me speak andrew and and thanks to the board for the hard work Thank you dylan Next we have ed de molder Can you hear me? We can of course yours. Thank you. Um, so ed de molder. I'm um I was in the room 20 plus years ago with uh when the the select board and the Uh the trustees heard the proposal or voted on the proposal by trevis scorer of a monsacra association for the original trefon with with steve Um, it was a soccer facility Uh with other usage So I have a couple of of of comments One is at the time that it was proposed the original documentation Said that there would be no a no permanent structures on the facilities Which which meant there could be no upgrade of the Red barn that stands to include any type of concessions or bathrooms There could be no permanent bathrooms put in um and Little league and softball was prohibited from putting in any type of back stops and so um That was a boner contention at the time with some of the advocates for little league and softball So my question one of my questions before I have a couple of comments is has that changed Our permanent structure is allowed to be placed on the tree farm now If you don't mind ed could you uh, uh, list out your questions Well, that was my first question and then I have some comments So could anybody answer that has that changed from the original intent when the state gave it to the tree Tree farm committee and the board the two boards agree has has that changed because if it has changed Um, if it hasn't changed then then there'd have to be a change down the road Um, that would impact the timing for soccer usage because the fields would would not be usable for soccer Andrew evan has a comment. I don't Yep, go ahead. I'm not aware of anything in the deed that we received from the state that prohibits recreation equipment Uh being placed on the property the only restrictions that I'm aware of are the buildings that are on the far Uh, northern end of the property that is a house a a barn Or garage in a in a bathroom facility that's In need of repair that need to be uh, maintained but other than that I'm not aware of any restrictions of any athletic structures Well, all right. So so over the last 10 years that's changed because it was originally proposed there were no You could not add anything permanent to the tree farm facility 20 years ago Okay, um, so I I have two two other two other comments One is as a soccer user as a soccer coach with s6 united soccer club and a user the facility If the facility becomes used by other groups Such as little league softball Other groups it's going to impact the soccer community and specifically s6 united and the nordic soccer club in their ability To run their programs as it's currently set up with the number of players that they have My second comment is um, I run for the state of vermont a special needs soccer program in the fall Called top soccer. It's a us youth soccer um program for children with Intellectual physical and emotional needs. It's a six-week program And the tree farm has been has bent over backwards to accommodate us for a short six-week timeframe for just a couple of hours a week and as a User like that. That's not a major user. I'm concerned that um a program like ours will potentially be squeezed out and uh and impacting some of our most vulnerable Families from all of chitin and counting not just sx That that come and use the facility. So um, I I'd like the the uh the board to consider That as well when they're voting. Thank you Thank you very much ed Looks like next we have stuff in b First i'm on the quarter jazz. I have a thick accent. So you might um find a little difficult to understand me um, but my point really Along with um, Mike in the guy who just spoke. Um, I mean I live in brellington and on this nexus and of course at the brellington high school So I spent um a lot of time in the brellington area, but on my free time I do um I mean sx all the time. I play three days a week over there and I guess my main point is because at the beginning you guys mentioned now that You playing our hope to keep everything the same. That's why like keeping your rentals happy And keeping like things to the same but like as everyone mentioned with all like Obviously, I have nothing against you guys making that baseball and rugby that was that all that Things I can bring life to the community. You can like you won't have not just the soccer community You also have baseball and rugby people come to the community Those are people that can go to the bars and go to the restaurant and have bs and drink after that So that's more basing to sx. But when you bring in all these other communities You're also taking away For the people who have been playing soccer there like almost 20 years now Like I said, I play there three days a week and that people they hope they're more than that So when you take away those time, you're taking like maybe three or two days a week of soccer For me and I guess I'm just concerned that once you guys bring in those other businesses You guys don't take away time from us and also you guys mentioned about keeping um the tracks um Um Well keeping the tracks and everything that clean and all that stuff and you talking about how you're Breaking your management that can do all that That I feel is just a little backstabbing because if you have just kind of consent just a thing that should be brought up Long before you have a discussion. What are you gonna bring a whole new management that you can just see a problem and be like It's a problem But I'm gonna talk about everything when I'm ready to replace that other person You gotta go to that person be like, hey, this is what is happening This is what you guys need to fix and if that don't get fixed then you can take a replacing them You can just be or you guys don't clean the track you guys go Water or do all this because you don't do that. I'm just gonna talk about replacing you That I'm sure it's in the contract somewhere. I'm only 26. I haven't been here long enough I was six years old when you guys first signed the contract. I don't know what's in the contract but in a way, I feel like like You guys you have at least Keeping some kind of heads up your head. Um, I mean, uh, June. It's all yeah It's a yeah. It's less than a year away. That's all not a lot of time to put all this into work Like because you have you guys have no plans right now of how you're going to make out this work You have no plans or how you're going to keep your current rental happy while breaking on new rental thing Like I wonder I guess my question. What is your plan? Because you can have hope you can have intent but all that means is not if you don't have a plan to work on this whole intense I thought that's it. Thank you uh Jill Lampren. Hi everybody. Um, I'm Jill Lampren. I am the scheduler for the tree farm. I've been in this position for 10 years um, I've previous to that I was a parent of a soccer player. So we started visiting the facility uh when it first opened Uh for rec soccer and we've been there every single year since Um, and I I just want to put myself out there as available to answer a lot of questions that need some context um, like one of the things that have been brought up is the access to the trails the conditions of the meadows and uh gate access. Um, so the gates open generally at dawn and close at dusk That's how it was all the years I've worked there until covid when covid came It never opened up again until the middle of june 2020. So if anybody visited that park or facility to run or whatever. Yes, the gates were locked and even now we are closing after the last reservation because people are squeezed for space and they are Taking space at the tree farm without authorization. That means moving goals So when a paid customer comes things are not necessarily set up properly And we're just still coming out of that covid mode at the same time. We have a new A new company taking care of the mowing and all that so there's a little bit of Um learning curve there with how far up into the meadows to get and I would just ask for a little leeway there as That gets figured out especially on the heels of covid um As far as if you show up to run and the gate is locked I would encourage anyone to just drive right past the tree farm Pull into the white barns and you can park there and access the facility anytime By going over the footbridge And enjoy your run your bike your cross country ski whatever it doesn't take the gate being open for you to do that um Also about the trail specifically. Yes maintaining the trails at a minimum is in the agreement But maybe six years ago or so the high school moved their huge Labor Day weekend race from catamount which charged them a lot of money To the tree farm and they spent time on their own Under different leadership than is currently running it To evolve those trails pretty dramatically Fairly elaborately really But with the agreement that they would maintain them So it was actually a really wonderful opportunity for the tree farm to bring in another sport Work with the high school and I have not heard any complaints. So i'm a little surprised to to hear such A laundry list of complaints about that. I'm actually working with them right now for labor day weekend coming right up So I will continue to reach out to them and see what we can do to make them happy as I would do with any customer Which also by the way, I want to say it does include Ultimate frisbee already. That's one that was let's bring in ultimate frisbee They trained at the facility Tuesdays and Thursdays all spring long So we do already have that covered. We have been expanding a lot. So I'm here to answer any other questions that you might have Thank you for that, joe Jim you're next Jim barf you can go ahead and Sorry about that. Can you hear me now? Again, go ahead. Yeah. Um, so yeah a parent of a couple of cross-country runners And to um, you know, what steven was saying is you know, spent a lot of you know, personal time An energy Typically in august to get the trails ready and what you have at the tree farm is an amazing piece of property You know, quite frankly Not only the fields which are really pristine, but the hillside And the trails surrounding it is is, you know, really great And really what i'm just advocating for, you know, is i'll say a little bit more support because the Um, the cross-country team and parents that you know, do all of that work We're not we're not professionals in that space, right? And so And it does take, you know, a lot of uh, kind of labor A lot of expertise to maintain a trail system, especially with you know, some of the You know, rainstorms and washouts we have so I think what I'd like to, you know, advocate for Are a couple of things number one is to have, um, you know, professional organization who can Oversea and provide, you know, maybe some kind of annual college, you know, budget to keep the trails to where they, you know, should be I think the Essex, you know cross-country team and and parents, you know, will continue to put in, you know, the the energy Um and resources to help maintain it But I think that there is some oversight and support there And then there's also I think a broader opportunity to make that trail system If you look at the premier cross-country facility in new england, it's at thatford You know where they have both a trails run and they typically will host the new england championship The system that you're the hillside that you have in in Essex at the pre farm is Virtually identical to some of the trail systems in that for and so I think that's really kind of a hidden gem If that was developed Again, I'm not talking about overdevelopment and have a, you know, crisscross of trails and networks there But I do think with some specific oversight and some specific direction You could continue to improve those trail systems And really be a big drop for, you know, people in the community as well as folks outside So I think my request is kind of twofold as one is to make sure the management team Really considers some maintenance or supervisory or support of the trail system As well as an expansion of that, you know, to really make The trail system as, you know, kind of beautiful and As a destination as the the soccer fields are themselves Thank you, Jim William you're next go ahead and unmute yourself or is yours Hey, thank you. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, we can Thanks, I appreciate it. Um, so my name is William Hines. I run the vermont amateur soccer league here in Chittenden County I've been renting from the tree farm since about 2008 2009 I run about 560 hours Give or take per year at the facility so, um You know, I just I just Like like like other people that have been talked I just have concerns of kind of getting squeezed out of there. Um My league is also the only full-size adult soccer league that's I'm sorry except for the women that just started up this year. So I apologize. I'm the only Certified United States affiliated soccer league that is full-size for for men and my league really depends on The tree farm just due to the fact that there are so many fields that can accommodate my league on Sunday afternoons and and Tuesday nights that I'm worried that we'll get squeezed out of there and And it's I'm all about other sports. That's amazing, but When I when I hear that it's not going to change And the use is going to be, you know You know the same But then on the other hand I hear well, we want to add baseball fields and softball fields that that to me is It's you're changing it. You you plan on changing it down the road um Which concerns me, um and and also, um, I just want to add to that as well That uh, you know the tree farm management group has been great to work with over the last 12 or 13 years that I've I've rented the space and I also would have maintenance concerns if if the town took over as well, um, you know The tree farm has it down the maintenance is great And also it's got a personal touch where if there is something Wrong because no one's perfect. I can pick up the phone and call Jill or text Jill Right on the moment and I get an instant response and and I'm afraid that that is going to go away and um And I just I hope that The board realizes that that facility was built on the shoulders of soccer leagues and soccer players and it's really important to that community From my league to The elite eight league to the to the club teams like like Nordic and s6 united that place is Everything and we're and we're a really tight knit community and and a family of sorts and we really Really can't afford to be squeezed out of that facility Thanks for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you Charles Laura's yours. You can go ahead and unmute yourself Hi, uh, thank you. Um, my name is tinot and uh, charles and senator And uh, as you consider this decision I respectfully ask that you also consider your decision on the number of New American kids and adults that utilize this facility for the enjoyment of the sport of soccer Please don't realize the negative impact of your decision on the access to soccer fields For this segment of the population While also trying to make accommodations for other field sports, which I have absolutely nothing against but There is going to be a negative impact While I am here as a Tree farm soccer player I feel compelled to speak on behalf of my fellow new americans who Are also a soccer crazy as I am and uh, no matter where we grew up Whether it was the streets of kinshasa or refugee camps in Nairobi one thing that We could always count on Was access to soccer fields When we came here to the united states, uh, we assimilated and dissipated in all aspects of american life However, one of the things that come from our past that we still hold dear to our hearts despite All the efforts of many of my american friends is the love of soccer And it doesn't take much foresight Uh, sorry, it doesn't take much forethought to realize that Your plan to open access to other fields, uh to other sports will absolutely dilute this access And it might not happen in the first year. It might not happen in the second year But it's almost hundred percent inevitable that That is what is going to happen in the future is that there's going to be Baseball fields lacrosse fields and what happens to those soccer fields And what happens to the access that we have created over the 20 years that tree farm has been in existence. Thank you Thank you, Charles Mike or is yours go ahead and unmute yourself. All right, this is mike timis rock. Can you guys hear me? Yes, we can Uh, yeah, so i'm a soccer parent um, the decision It just seems a little rushed, um, you know first I heard about it was You know today it's potentially up for sort of what seems to me like a You know all but irreversible vote as soon as today, which just which just seems rushed, um, You know the change might be a good idea Um, but i'm not sure you know anyone's really ready to make the decision You know as a long, you know as a you know somewhat longtime user of the tree farm You know, I think things generally go well there, but I mean, you know just to be frank Like I think some of the maintenance could be better the fields the parking lot Um, I'm also not a huge fan of the no dogs policy um But again, those are just kind of minor quibbles I do think as others have mentioned some of the arguments in favor are a little bit sort of contradictory if we do Install different types of fields at the treats of tree farm, you know by definition, we're going to be taking away soccer fields Um, so I think we just need to be frank about that. We can't get up and say well, nothing's going to change Except that we're going to take away two soccer fields and put in baseball fields because clearly that is a change You know or what it's worth my kids to play baseball also Um, but you know, but but again, this might be something that just requires a little more time a little more deliberation um You know back to my point about the maintenance, you know the parking lot especially You know also the fields, you know, someone mentioned maybe budget for the trails Um, you know, I think the notion that this would have zero tax impact on us Um is also a little hard to believe. Um, you know, this is a huge facility, you know, I in in the Some of the materials shared before the meeting that was mentioned of installing bathrooms Um, you know playground other improvements, you know, I mean again, those might be good ideas But those are you know, those are all things that you know cost money Um, I don't think we're going to have sort of like a playground fee to cover the the cost of the playgrounds um You know, I mean perhaps one of the solutions we should be considering is to sort of Expand, you know the uses and and in turn the membership and the number of stakeholders, you know within the current structure Um, you know, that may be a way to sort of diversify the uses a little bit and to get more sort of community input Um without making the the the radical change of you know, moving from the structure that's worked for, you know, quite a while Um to the town and village taking over Um, and then finally I guess back to something I keep mentioning over and over with it being rushed I really don't see how it makes sense to make this Pretty drastic change, you know before the separation issue is resolved Um, I just see this being sort of the latest Thing that people fight over, you know in the context of the separation argument You know if the decision is made to not renew the lease Um, you know, perhaps renewing the lease for less than 10 years is the answer um But again like in the context of separation I just don't see how how this timing this timing makes any sense Yeah, so I guess that's my final point just to summarize is that You know, it might be a good idea. I'm not 100 convinced But I think everyone sort of deserves more time to sort of mull this over and think more about what the impact is Um, and then especially when we add in the question of uh separation Thank you everybody Hey, Andrew, I just want to jump in. This is roge from the trustees for those listening at home Um, every there's been a lot of comments tonight about adding baseball softball That was strictly my comment as a trustee as one of 10 Um, so that is not as far as I can tell and any of the documentation or the proposal from ali or brad so Um, I just want to put people at ease that that is not As far as I can tell on the documentation what is being proposed. That's just something I expressed as a soccer parent Baseball or softball parent as well. So it's just me putting that out there to the team and I would not imagine to have much influence on that So I just want to make that clear for everybody who's about to comment that that is not in the plan My understanding from brad and ali is they want to keep it managed very much the way it has been currently managed Thank you, roge Mike. Thank you as well. I'm seeing some hands pop back up from people who have spoken So just so you are aware once we've gone through everybody who's wanted to speak online I'm going to ask then andy to manage the public comments In the room. So for those who have already spoken, we're going to prioritize others who have not yet spoken Just to again make sure everybody's on the same page here Justin you're next You guys hear me. All right. We can go right ahead. All right. Awesome. What's funny? I originally turned into this just to watch and then the more I listened I realized maybe I should jump in and Say something because I'm here and some pretty great Things from both sides, right? There's like two very passionate groups of people here. There's the tree farm management group who has successfully managed an awesome operation Supporting youth sports and soccer and industry and businesses and experiences and memories and balloon landings, right? All that good stuff. We haven't even talked about balloons yet, but we'll say that for another day I guess, you know kind of going back to it. I know lots of people on both sides is It feels like as much as it's a passion point. It's also like let's take some time and figure it out like Two years five years extension. Let the village and the town figure out its own business Let them work with the existing group manage the fields And the programmings around the fields bring in maybe another partner to manage the forest So you've got the fields and you've got the forest Because that's like the two really like, you know passionate groups here, right? I think the parks department obviously wants to you know, help support the land and you know, I've got friends that work there and you know, so it's I guess going back to it is You're clearly not ready yet Like the pools closed early because you can't pay lifeguards right now, right? There's you know, the there's no budget ready for it The the group is managing like three years out right now for tournaments and contracts for tournaments So I think it's like it's a great idea But like to rush it through just seems like it's ambitious and the community is clearly not ready for it because you've got passionate people on both sides The trails are awesome there. I ride the trails. I hike the trails The fields are there. They're awesome there. I play soccer there. I coach soccer there You know, and I think that's really it is like it's almost You know to mention the local businesses that make revenue off of you know, the tournaments and you know, the clubs I guess back to it is it just seems like it's rushed I think both groups all three groups can sit at the table and Really carve out something awesome that no one has to sacrifice everyone succeeds and everyone gets to use the land Because I think that's what we're all here for So I'll leave it at that. Thanks guys. Thank you, Justin Corey, you can go ahead and unmute yourself and the floor is yours Thank you. Um, my name is Corey Sinet I reside in south burlington but I Play in the vast league. I play in the lead eight. I ref in the versus league And I just want to comment on the the Person who said that the fields are pristine Most are in good shape But to be honest, they're overused They're not pristine and that's no fault of the tree farm management group um Reason being really is the season is simply too short and the demand is is way too high Um, the best plan is to not diversify the sports access Uh, it's to really bring in turf A turf would be something that could drastically improve and increase the season of the tree farm From may through october to april through december in some cases and I have friends in uh, new hampshire in boston where they have turf fields and they're playing almost year-round So that's kind of my two cents and I appreciate the time. Thank you Thank you, Corey Uh The next person is listed as tree farm soccer player. So if you could uh, say your name just so we know who you are The floor is yours Hi, this is uh, ben bergeron. So as my description says, I'm a tree farm soccer player. Um, so I've grown up playing You know to I guess reiterate some of the comments both Mike um and corey just made I grew up playing in all the leagues that have sort of been represented here between You know vassal of my own true soccer um Currently playing in the league eight and then even the versus league. So I've grown up um kind of watching All these developmental soccer leagues including the clubs sort of support that facility and kind of grow it to basically what it's become so You know to reiterate what everyone else has sort of said before me at this point It's it's sort of at capacity now with the demand of soccer So I think you know not to close it off to other field sports, but I think it's sort of irrational to think that we're going to be able to Basically carve out some space for other sports and then still feel like you know, we're meeting the demands and You know supporting the groups that try and utilize that I think it's going to be a scenario where You know, no one's happy because no one can truly utilize it Based off the time they need so I just want to make sure that You know, it sounds like a lot of you know The people that I'm hearing chime in, you know that kind of refer to like the passive recreation and the you know, they're running I can't speak to You know those trails, um, but it sounds like more that You know, maybe there's some conversations that need to happen between you know The current management group and them to sort of try and Focus on developing and you know starting to help the you know public utilize those better, but then You know, I think Focusing on the current sports that are utilizing this, you know, it has to be the main goal. I don't think By any means sort of carving out space To then you know underutilize it or you know, just underutilize Whatever league tries to join in and utilize those fields. Um, is really the answer. So thank you Thank you, Ben Uh, so next in terms of those who have not yet spoken Lorraine's alum, you're up Go ahead and Can you hear me Andrew? Go right ahead. All right. Thank you. Um, a couple of questions. Um, it looks to me I didn't see in the proposal a quantification of the capacity in the town for sports So it seemed like in the proposal That had said that a number of Teams were turned away if I remember right so that indicates to me that we're at capacity I don't know that This proposal would take care of that issue. Um, just seems like a shuffle that will displace people that won't have a place to go um, also concerned about um quantification of Uh, the amount of volunteer hours that have gone in that have subsidized the tree farm Management because I assume there's a lot of volunteer hours that were not paid Um, how was that as a proposal how in feasibility did we quantify that and um, I think that's important to quantify In terms of taxes and how it will impact our taxes Especially given that through the separation merger Um discussions taxes seem to be a big issue for both municipalities um and then Clearly it looks to me from One of the things that was brought up in the proposal was that there Wasn't a seat at the table for the lacrosse and for ultimate crispy But it looks like we have two rec Representatives, so I would assume that that is a conduit for representation for other sports So I'm a little confused by that um And also I think if I remember right I thought lacrosse Actually used to play there that they moved to Fort so I don't know if the fort is also a space that can have capacity too um And so I would like to know how much I would love to have staff time quantified Because I've heard that we're at that capacity of their staff as well So all those kind of things when I see facilities being thrown in a park So on and so forth those all amount to tax dollars So I do think is a bragging right to say that we as a town have for 20 years enjoyed Something that's grown to a five star Soccer program that's known regionally throughout new england true. No taxes New no cost to the taxpayer except for the initial cost Which I think was under 190 thousand dollars. That's quite a There's quite a bargain and the other thing I would like to quantify too is I assume that there are swells in our businesses anytime the these programs are Are the events happen and I would like to know if there's been kind of an impact assessment on switching things up in terms of If we do start bringing in other sports because it seems to me I think We bring in I thought they bring in around 20,000 people a year maybe through the program Which is a lot of business for our town. So those are some serious concerns along with separation And is now the time given separation because I I see the word harmonious Written in the proposal and I think a lot of what we've done so far has not been harmonious So I have some concerns about Harmony in our decisions and this what's great about keeping the the tree farm group for now is that they're not They're not politically involved. It's you know, it's it's a separate entity So in a way what I like was the governance is actually two and two it looked like if there was ever any issues that came up Um, and I thought that was an interesting governance model Given that it was equal share for both municipalities And I would think in terms of the running and the trails from listening to Jill and That was added later and that the promise was they would do the work It sounds like maybe they can add a rep from Runners so that we can raise some funds to take care of that because if the schools are using it Maybe that's something you can add to the school budget even to take care in a separate way So it sounds like there's a lot of things that are solvable And I would hate to rush this kind of decision Given that we have separation on the table for reasons. Thank you very much for your time Thank you. Lorraine Next is meg munson. Can you guys hear me? We can barely though My name is meg munson. I'm the executive director for vermont youth soccer association Otherwise known as vermont soccer association and I just wanted to advocate for For soccer I don't think that This I think this is happening really quickly for us and I don't know that everybody understands just How many programs will be affected if they start shuffling around the usage at the tree farm? Some of the programs that come from my office would be the top soccer which ed de molder talked about State cup we run a fall league We do a spring tournament the target cup ODP which is the state select team olympic development program and coach education all of those programs for us depend on usage at the tree farm And we serve players from the top to the bottom of the state So what I would be asking for is a little more transparency on Exactly what the thoughts are As the town and the village when they get to that point if they're going to take over we would Many of us would be really scrambling to hold our businesses together clubs State association on down the line and it's it's very concerning to us that we could get squeezed out And that's all that's all. Thank you Thank you meg. So I see no other new hands on microsoft teams Uh, and as I'm saying that now another hand comes up I think that was any cooper Go ahead any Hi, can you hear me andrew? Yes, um forgive me. I'm hoarse from teaching. Um, and I was at the bike walk advisory committee meeting at the earlier start of this topic I'm embarrassed and uncertain about the question. I'm going to ask so please tell me if It's already been answered. This is common knowledge that I should already know um When there's a profit made at the tree form Because I'm assuming there is one because I'm hearing Nordics. I'm hearing a lot of private soccer club speaking Um, when there's a profit made at the tree form Where does that money go? So any that has not yet been discussed. Um, I know that we're going to be having a representative from I think it was a treasurer from the tree farm organization who was going to be speaking Um, and so I think that'd be a great thing for them to to go over Okay, and then just on top of that Um, when contracts are up for renewal These types of discussions are common and normal. Um, this doesn't seem rushed to me It seems like an intelligent thought process to wonder this aloud because the contract is up and um creatively thinking outside a box about Municipal land is intelligent I understand how much People love soccer and I've really enjoyed hearing the passionate speakers um and I think that Their voices will be heard regardless of who's managing it. So I guess I'm a little I'm a little confused I don't think it doesn't seem to me that there's um Going to be the change that people fear, but I don't know enough about it to know But I do know that it's normal To check on contracts make new decisions And I do wonder if municipal land When there's rent being paid and profit coming in I feel like that What I read in the packet was that that money would be reinvested and back in and I'm intrigued to know that we would manage our own Um, municipal land. I'm talking a little bit in circles But thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing further conversation. Um, when you say yesterday Thank you, annie Some more hands have popped up Jim Or is yours go ahead and unmute yourself Jim gowdy you can go ahead and unmute yourself Or is yours? Yeah, sorry, andrew. I'm just going to answer an annie's question there Is the uh, the tree farm management group is a 501 c3 non-profit so the money that has come in any profits That have been made over the years have been invested Jim, I think you might have cut out a little bit I think what you were saying is that any profits are invested back into the tree farm The tree farm operations. Is that correct? I'm sorry. I'm just getting some text breaking up You broke up a little bit. Uh, what I got out of that is that um profits go to And then I think what you were going to say is tree farm operations Yeah, correct into into improvements in the tree farm for example the Upgrading of the road the parking lot the fields Uh, the goals that we use of the tree farm. So that's where that money's been reinvested back into the tree farm Great Thank you, Jim Next up Deb McAdoo you can go ahead and unmute yourself Hi everybody, I'll be quick because it's getting late and there's been a lot of passion And all it reminded me was that all day I dream about soccer. That's what I know Edidas is so listen I I just realized that there's a profit. Thank you, Annie for calling that question I don't do soccer, but I do rugby and I would really love for you to fix that road all the way down to that backfield Please Oh and one more thing Brad luck does a pretty good job of taking care of the parks He's got a good record and we're going to be separating soon. So maybe this is a good time to start Going through the process of making those changes Thank you. Thank you Deb Okay, now I am seeing no new hands up online So Andy if you're ready to take it away For those in the room Alrighty, um I guess I'd like to start with the finance guy. Yeah Please introduce yourself My name is Sven Eckloff. I am not the finance guy Or the treasurer, but I do sit on the board the tree farm And Jim who just spoke is also a member of the tree farm management group Um, I think my point here is this is being rushed. It's come to us quite quickly We first heard of this back in the spring from Ali and in the crew At first we didn't know what to think we know this agreement's been up For renewal or consideration For a while, um, and I'm new to the board. So I'm learning as I go But from what I've heard, uh, there's been very limited discussion Um between the town Representatives and the tree farm management board and it's been a more of a one-way discussion from the parks Side the parks park and rec from the junction and the village both have a seat on the board They record represent one third of our board Um, so you can see it's been very hard to make key decisions when everyone is somewhat divided Um, that's my perspective as being a new board member I will say, uh, personally I I coach soccer for my three kids I coach little league baseball my team just went to bristol connecticut Um, I coach football I coach every sport in this town. I volunteer hundreds of hours And the tree farm is a very valuable resource for the town of sx not just for kids families, but also economically um I think this is being personally rushed in my personal opinion. Um, this is not a board opinion I think that the two rec departments are not getting along and that concerns me It's tough to make decisions when you can't see eye to eye um, I've just caught wind of stuff and That's concerning and I don't know if the public is really in tune with that So I think uh, if I had to make a statement now, I would postpone the discussion And possibly look for renewal maybe in a shorter term. I think long term I think there is a place for the parks and rec department to take over management But with so much uncertainty with the big vote in november and For me personally the parks and rec department's not seeing the eye to eye is very concerning And the tree farm management board was given this chance to manage the tree farm And we've done a really good job for 20 years And it's all been volunteered based so As for numbers I will second gym We last year lost money because of coven We still have to reinvest in our most valuable resource, which is grass It costs a lot of money to do that This year we are actually on pace to make money And we have already had plans lined up to actually fix the road believe it or not That's my biggest complaint as a soccer dad soccer coach I'm literally there seven days a week over the summer with three kids and three different programs So that is scheduled to get fixed Which is great We are also reinvesting into the grass and we are believe it or not creating a schedule now to retire fields year by year In hopes where the grass can stay strong and a lot of work goes in the grass and Uh At the end of the day, I think it's keep reinvesting so all the money we make this year would be going back into the into the tree farm So but I am new I don't have the historical perspective Or the knowledge but I I really do believe Going forward that it's too early to act on the parks and rec to manage The tree farm that comes from me personally not from the board perspective Thank you. Yep Let's see done Let's see done. Um, so, um, I had the opportunity happily yesterday So Oh Um, so yesterday I had the opportunity to talk to jill with along with a couple other people about this issue and I it's a nonprofit Jill gets a salary for all she does all year long a four thousand dollars And I don't think there's anything that we can do hiring a person to work the scheduling and everything that is going to be less than that And it's nothing that the taxpayers have to pay I do agree that maintenance is important And I think that the trails I myself use trails in the town And I'm very leery of places where there's high grass because I don't want to get ticks I don't want to get Lyme disease And so I do think as I said earlier in the night the trails committee is a working group And that's why I shouldn't be with the Conservation because they could also help with this and working on the trails And I think that the dogs not coming in to the park. I think Absolutely because I walked I was walking out on Matthew Forest today and yesterday I was out on the other side And people pick up the dog poop, but they leave the bags, you know And so that can that can be a disaster during a game There they go So I think that's really important and the structures on the agreement Of purchase and sale on page two The paragraph under number four Here in the property contains a house garage restroom building Seed extractory and are listed on the state register for historic places as historic complex They guarantee us can't condense and agrees that prior to undertaking any repair or alterations and the additions To the historic complex other than regular maintenance Will put proposed plans to the division of historic preservation And which will have the opportunity to be viewed and comment on all proposed work So it's not you that you can't fix the bathrooms that you couldn't have The garage or the house Become something else there and you know use it for multiple purposes It's just that you have to go through this process And I don't know that we've tried to do that at all And so I I I think that there's nothing here that people have talked about that can't be done within the system that we've already got right now and It's rushed I think it's come on a bunch of us very quickly to find that this was an issue That the rec department wanted to take it over but As all these people have said I think that It's good to have the information now and you can chew on it a while Let the merger or let the separation vote go and then you know come back to it and see where we can go but uh, I think that uh Uh The tree management group has done a good job And I think the only thing that is a real issue is the parking And I think mary wants to talk about parking. So I will take her time. Thank you very much. Thanks Mary Thank you. You want us to keep the mask on I I was sorry. I was only asking spend a bit of which is on after you went back to the audience If you're more comfortable speaking without the mask for the microphone, you know I'll speak loudly so everybody can hear me. Um, the reason I'm talking is really not about parking. Sorry No What I'm going to talk about is is the whole sense again that this is kind of like it feels to me kind of like, um Memorial hall was that all of a sudden there's kind of a major thing to those of us that are in the public That there's going to be a major change And we haven't heard about it until a day or so before it comes up potentially for a vote And I think it's rushed I think that it's um Not allowing everyone to have to think about it. Even if they haven't even heard about it Uh people that are not hooked into little committees that are interested in what's happening in the town aren't going to know and This all goes to my feeling of being a citizen Where I feel like a lot of I speaking for myself I feel unless I totally spend all my time paying attention to what's going on here And because I'm retired now my kids are gone. I can do that Um, I wouldn't know about half of these things and yet you're talking about my town So I think as we had said at a meeting a couple of meetings ago What we would like to see and I'm speaking the big we my friends or I whatever Um, could we bring these items up like we are tonight? But then have a week or two in between To mull it over have a chance to shoot some emails off to you To think about it and then you take a vote because it's just it just goes too fast and you feel like I have no say over what's going to happen in my community The feeling is and I it's just my personal feeling. It's like there's going to be one or two or three people in a staff This comes up with this idea and then they share it with trustees probably your select board And everything that happens is just between the staff You know you own the town and the rest of us just happen to live here and pay taxes But have it feels like we have no say Because some of it seems to be rushed. So it's just the personal feeling about that and we've talked before about transparency and That kind of stuff. Thank you. Thank you, Mary Um here, please I feel like we know each other. Yes. Hi, Andy. It's Eric said Yeah, my name is Eric sen. I happen to be the very first president of the working tree farm for about 10 years Took over when trevor Felt out of vogue with what was going on So I'd like to answer a couple questions to keep things factual I'd like to offer my assistance if anybody has anything they'd like to talk about later about what it means And then I'd like to just address the rec department if I could so First and foremost, uh, one of the several people have talked about access to the property the reason that the gate was put in was Literally almost the day we were going to start working on the property having it open for soccer somebody came in at night with a car and decided to do donuts on the field and there was Probably thousands of dollars worth of damage that peat shill back then who was managing the The landscaping aspect and did a wonderful job for many years. I think you should talk to him before you do anything else Um, that's why we put the gate in and we started having hours The other thing that you have to realize is this is a facility that is used by many people in the community t