I was in LA, but I was still doing my New York thing. But as I got involved in the community, and I saw there was so much to do with people like Jose Luis and Evelyn who are gods, they were already out there banging on doors and doing things. And I attached myself to them because I thought we could all do something together. I was the newbie at town. So it was being born again as a Chicano. It was a whole new chapter and a whole new life that I've been doing for, what, 25, 30 years now, I guess. So it was very much a definitive moment. And I was wondering what the next few restaurants in New York that were. That was five. Oh, yeah, now every corner chimichangas, every corner. It was downstairs at the village. And that was a Spanish, but really Spanish, delicate test on 14th Street. It said chorizo. We were, yes, it calls everybody in there, but it was not like our chorizo. So it was not ours. So yeah, it was really, there was one Mexican restaurant. You can believe that. I would audition for things and the cast of people would say, thank you, but you're too Mediterranean. All they knew was I was something that didn't look like somebody else, but yeah, it was completely foreign. OK, over here. Speak up, because people in the back need to hear you. So if not much has changed in Hollywood, so what is it going to take? The second coming. Actually, things have changed. It is much better. There's no question.  There's still, it's just like the LGBT community. Of course, the stories we've made are random. But at the same time, honey, you go to some cities and this country is 1950. So you know, both communities have made huge leaks. And we have to stop and celebrate that. But there's still a long, long, long way to go. I don't know if there's not a magic answer. There are still, you know, I would say it takes off. Like I said, take all kinds. We have some friends and I won't name them because we all know who they are. You know, they're still in the 60s. And yeah, we'll burn down the studios as they will do. And we're going, but you know what, we need, no, we need that voice too. You know what I'm talking about. We need that voice too. You need all kinds. You need the one that's diplomatic and walks into the network and does it from the inside. You need the one who's out there beating down the doors and you need all kinds. It's no single answer how it's gonna change. It will change. It has changed, but it has to change more. No question. Okay. Over here. You talk about the intersection of art and activism and it seems to me like here in Los Angeles, art has always been a part of the activism at least, but the history that I have, be a newcomer. Absolutely. From 2007. And I'm wondering if that kind of intersection, if you saw it happen in New York or if you think it happens in other cities or is this unique to here? No, I believe it does happen in other places. I was not aware of it in New York City because New York has everything is interconnected and intersection and everything is. It was not clearly defined, but yes. Well, let's face it, Diego Rivera was doing the murals for Rockefeller and they nearly had a heart attack and C. K. Adams was out here right on River Street with a medical therapy guy raising hell. So art has always been always, I think, been used to make a statement and I look at all the art that came out of the Chicano movement. Thank God that Gato Cappesino, they have a lot that those early posters and the graphics and banners and paintings that young artists did. I'm starting to say that UFW has not been quite as good about archiving that. And I understand they have it a fish to fry, but a lot was lost, a lot was lost. And of course in New York, you have a much more prominent Puerto Rican community and so a lot of that art and activism that you're talking about, because it was a critical mass and because they were fighting their own battles, really took place, you know, we have Brighonis here. Right, it was on the program. Yes. Spotlights are everywhere. Puerto Rican traveling theater and then you had Intar with, you know, then the Cuban people and my people came in. And so it's only been a fairly recent times that there has been a real prominence of the Chicano community in New York. That has been fairly recent. Yeah, and quite big. That's huge. So, okay. One more. I wanted to say something about if it has changed, that the first time we did a fundraising, you produced it. Yeah. Tell them about the views. About what? Well, Jose Luis, I'm on the board with Jose Luis Sammelina and some very strange people. Gil Cedillo, God bless him. He was on the board with us, right? And Luis says, I wish I could do his accent. We must do something on the Diablo de Muertos. Nobody does anything here. Now, of course, today, it's everywhere, but honestly, he was the very first one, 1989. He said, we have to do something around that and, you know, we can do a show inside the theater but outside in the building, you know, the lobby there, we do the typical, the Torquillas, the Maniachi, Calavera, Peta Buquo. And I was casting a film at Disney at the time and they had decided that that part would be perfect for a Latino stand-up. We're talking 1989. There weren't a lot.  Culture clash was still up in San Francisco, George Lopez was just starting. There were a few all scattered. So I said, why don't we do a very hip, cool, all Latino comedy night? There had never been such an animal. And the juxtaposition with the traditional outside and then we'll get celebrities to do it and we did, whoa, what, six or seven every year. It grew huge, huge. And I remember one comic coming backstage that first one we did, he said, my God, it's so great to be on a, you know, on a build with eight other Latino comics. I'm always the only one. So all that is there. So yeah. Yeah, but the story was, we were just a company.  I'm exhausted. Don't you think? Don't you think? How come you made me story? No. Remember? You tell it. We were just a company inside and they wanted to just let us do the theater. And we were feeding the people. We had, you know, we had to find people to give us food. And then in the middle of the fundraiser that actually costed us, we had to get more free colleagues. We ran out of free colleagues, ran around the streets to the Mexican restaurants to see if nobody came for next week. We had free colleagues. We had Frita Monero, Paul Rodriguez, Cheets Bunny, and all the hosts and he and I were running out of free colleagues. So it has changed because now we ran and now we run and we build. Now we send a party to you. Tessie, now let's get, oh, we did it. Okay, let's leave that part here. Somebody up there? All right. Okay, got it. You talked about when you started casting how you made them to bring in Latin artists and can you just talk for a second about some of the triumphs of what you sort of got so like, you know, slip in some Latin actors in the way that Moide were asking for? Well, then there was a big, a Time Magazine article, Time Magazine in the late 80s, I forget, Eddie almost was on the cover. I think La Bamba had just come out and they were talking about the Latino explosion. Yeah, we've been through like four or five, right? This was the first, Eddie was in there and I was casting and they quoted me in the story of Time Magazine and I ran across it, reason I felt I could have said this quote two weeks ago because I said, well, the producer said, I would see Latinos, but the casting person doesn't bring them in. And the casting person says, I would see Latinos, but the director doesn't ask for them. And the director says, well, I would see Latinos, but the producer never, you know, and everyone's busy saying it, you know, the truth is actors should come in with some exceptions, but you know. Well, I'm saying if it says, you know, Joe Blow, his name doesn't have to be Blow if a Latino actor comes in, why can't he just play that part? You know, a friend of mine just directed a huge ABC pilot, one hour takes place at LA today and I'm sitting at the screen here, it's lovely home and I'm watching and I'm waiting as we all do every time we see like that. There's a Latina, there's a Latina. The whole not one, it took place in LA today and I was saying, I don't need to see a show with 20 brown people in it, I don't. I just want to see a brown person in any situation just like we are. I don't need to have a whole Latino show, honestly. You know, I just don't understand it, so I don't know what it is. I don't have an answer. They don't see them, they don't bring them in, they're not good enough, I don't know. Robert McDonald, let's talk about Robert McDonald. Handsome, sexy, fabulous actor. Why isn't he in one of those Madam Secretary, he looks like he worked in the White House. He's in the House. Anyway, you, I want to hear this beautiful lady talk. Okay, so let's get back to some of the things that you've brought out in your presentation. I think that one of them is really about the, how you melded these two extremely important activist roles to you, the LGBTQ perspective with your Latino perspective. When do you think that they can work together and when do you think that you lose perspective by trying to meld too many different agendas into one activist agenda? Damn, we should have kept up with the question. Hahaha. I'm talking about, we talk about that.   Well, I'm low, you know? And that's one thing. So in a way, I don't see them as two causes. For me, it's one cause. And I have met so many. I've had no idea there's so many gay Latinos. There's tons of them. You know what I'm all about. Really, they're like a bad rash. They're everything. I love meeting these young, talented, smart, marvelous young people. And they happen to be Latino.  So that's second and third. First, what are they? They're smart. They're talented. They're gifted.  That's what the truth is. Now, how it's perceived, of course, is here comes a Latino.  So I don't see it as two different things. I don't when I see it as one. That's a healthy perspective. And I think going back to the first gentleman's question, I think that a newer generation is embodying that more. And you're going back to recovering your roots, perhaps. But it's really about how do you feel as a human being? And how does that manifest in your art? That's right. So let's get back a little bit about politics. Because obviously, there were distinct periods of your life when a political act just changed the course of your life. And I guess what I'm going to ask is about current politics. We have been more and more fairly proactive in certain parts of the country, including Los Angeles, in electing officials who are Latino and now officials who are openly gay. At the same time, it's my opinion that even people in this community where arts and entertainment are such a huge part of the economy and of the profile and of the identity of the community, those very same elected officials that are chosen by our people oftentimes because of the numbers of who votes for them really don't take any kind of interest or activist role in making sure that there are Latinos and that there are, well, there's more gay penetration, obviously, in Hollywood and in some of the arts than the Latino as we've been talking about. But what do you think that is the responsibility or the role of our elected officials to be much more proactive in a community such as LA that depends so much on arts and entertainment for our well-being? Well, I think that there's no question that they need to do more. Some are doing more. Some consider them too hot-butt issues and they don't want to lose the next election and whereas the Latino voting power is quite strong, God knows the gay.   They have money and that's why they flattered Gephen on those people. Those are big dollars. And let's face it, in the end, that's what counts for people, dollars. That's the bottom line, you know. That's the bottom line. And I think it's not just the politician, but you know, I find the industry very homophobic still and very sexist still. It is, you know. I don't say everybody, but it's still very, very powerful. It's still very sexist, still hard for women. And even though there's a lot of gays, more gays in positions of power, it's a very tight group. So I think they're still afraid of it, you know, as important as it's gotten, you know, in terms of voting, in terms of dollars that they can get from those two communities. I think it's still frightened them, it's still new. And I think part of people are getting more frightened because of numbers. That's why I think people, that racism is getting even worse. Which, by the way, I still think too often, racism in this country is considered a black and white issue. It is. Every time we talk about racism, it's black and white. Racism is very strong and very alive for people of other colors. And I think that, I have no idea where I was born with that. Oh, that was so good. I had to wrap up thought, oh well, it would come to me. But yeah, it's, you know, Hollywood itself is still, as you can see. Yeah, yeah. Do you think that, and you made a statement earlier that there are, like, the big Latino wave is coming and then you don't hear anything for 12 years. What do you think is, obviously, when my family came to the United States in 1961, there was no Spanish language networks back then. And so my grandmother, who spoke no English, could only watch soap operas, she couldn't watch novellas. Now there's a huge and very powerful and very rich whole network system in several of them. The Univision, Telemundo, et cetera. But there's still a bit of a disconnect, I think, between younger artists who are trying to do a bilingual kind of path and those that are just monolingual Spanish or monolingual English. And where do you see the future of that whole dynamic going? It's very complicated and that's part of the problem. It's just like everyone, if I sit on one more panel or get by the one more study to, how do we reap for Latino market? Really, and I'm happy they're happening but enough for the studies, just do it already. It's not a Latino market.  Are you talking about a newly arrived immigrant? Are you talking to somebody that's so assimilated? We just go to the movies, you know? We don't have to see a Latino thing, you know? It's very complex and that's part of the problem. And language is a biggie. I especially believe that when you see, why do I point out that there's not a TV set? And watching television, you still see very few Latinos. You still see, and it's one thing to not see them in a lead role that unfortunately you're almost used to. But commercials, but I suspect it's because the McDonald's and the whatever corporations are still being convinced by ad agencies that the only way to reach the Latino is in Spanish. So if they've already put a Spanish language commercial on the McDonald's, then we're taking care of it. So on this one, make sure we have an African American, an Asian, and now a Pakistani, a Middle Eastern, and still a Latino, they're still on it. It also, in those areas has to do with the market. China's the next big television market, so make sure there's a Chinese in one of the lead roles. India is a huge market, so when we go to sell this series, you better have one or two Pakistani or Indians in there. They don't care, Latin America's yesterday, it is. In that world, I don't. I don't. And do you see a dichotomy between theater and the people who are Latino, who are making theater, device theater, theater about their own issues of community issues, which are, as you just pointed out, the issues that exist for the Chicano movement are vastly different than those that exist for Puerto Rican community or Dominican community or Cuban community. Do you see that, because this is a theater conference and a theater festival, but so much of your work has been on more commercial theater and producing for television and mass media, where do you see those two kind of paths converging or not? And do you think that that's even something that, especially young people, now that you're an academic, when you approach young people, when people ask you questions about their career path, how do you steer them?  And then on top of that, now I'm Latino and that further shrunk my universe. How do you tell people, young people especially, to navigate these paths? Because young people now especially, maybe not if you graduated from Los Angeles Community College but people who are going to four-year universities are coming out with these massive debts. I know. Massive debts. So if somebody comes up to your class afterwards, what is your advice? What do you tell them? First of all, I want to back up a little bit and say that Latinos in theater are doing amazing things. Much more interesting, braver, personal, you know, very much so.  People will come to the music center, they won't go 20 more feet to see something really, really interesting. So that's a real issue and I don't quite know what the answer is there. I guess getting stars to, you know, if you get a big star that always makes people. So that is still a problem there but I do think there's much more complex and much more interesting going on in theater. And that's always been my first love. You know, I can't answer that per se because they are so different, those two worlds. And especially in LA many times, I don't say always, at all, but many times too many young people just look at being seen in some little theater in order to get that TV series, you know. It's not like in LA where they'll do something in a little church somewhere just so they want, they need to act and they want to be before a live audience, you know. They're just such different worlds and not all actors can navigate them all. You know, I saw a young lady who's very gifted recently in a television thing but it was like she was playing Madison Square Garden.  You know, you could tell that she was used to stage. Not only her, I'd wait for a director for saying, take it down, you know. So not everyone can navigate all those but you know, you really need to. You need to do as much as you can. You need to be able to do theater. You need to be able to do film. You need to be able to do commercial. If you can, a voice if you can. You have to diversify, you know. There's no single advice. Everybody has to find their own path. They, it's their personal path as well as their professional path. You know, as I say, I was just doing regular mainstream stuff for 20 years and then once I started doing Latino, it served very well because when that market finally caught up, there was nobody there and I was doing everything but when that entity who would hire me to do a big Latino thing thing for PBS or NBC when they were doing the Oscars or the Emmys, I didn't. They wouldn't call you. No. So I felt that's hard to limit me and now that's what's sitting there the day. No, not that rough, I would do a Latino market.  But I have to follow what I wanna do. I'd love to be making a fortune doing the Kardashians but I'd shoot myself. I just couldn't do it myself. Or then. No, no, they're lovely, lovely people.  Some people just fulfill making money. I don't judge, that's great. I wish I was like that, believe me. No, I do, hey, I can make a fortune doing this show.  They take the jet to go home, they're happy. I can't do that. I wish I could. And then I think we should wrap it up because believe it or not I have to go on to another event for Islamic people. I find really very heartwarming or positive about this encuentro is that the Latino theater company has this space, has the, now the physical plant and has built a board that really does have some resources that has allowed them to flourish in here. But they've joined forces with the Latino-Latina comments which is this organization that is, I guess, grounded or nurtured by Emerson College in Boston. Interestingly, not so much Emerson College in Los Angeles which is another story. But what that evokes for me is the whole theme of building coalitions. Yes, absolutely. And you talk so much about the fact that Cesar Chavez joined the LGBTQ movement in Washington and that there was a real consciousness about what is common ground and common cause. And I think that some of that comes to the forefront in really tense times and very difficult periods. We just, Carrie and I just saw All the Way which is the second part of the Lyndon Johnson two part. No, the Great Society. The Great Society, sorry, we're seeing All the Way in a couple weeks, but it talked about the coalitions between the anti-Vietnam War movement and the African-American movement.  And I just want to get your thoughts about how do you keep those alliances strong and going and vital and, you know, when you're busy, you know, picking up your dry cleaning because you have an appointment at Universal Studio, how, what do you think are the basic elements of why those kinds of coalitions are imperative in order to move these sort of philosophically-based common causes moving forward? They are, I think what's going on with Latino theater, not with Latino theater, with Latino theater lions and the comms and all that is unbelievably fantastic because they're all doing the same thing all over the country. I always tell them, first of all, it's all about relationships, isn't it? Everything, your whole career, it's relationships. And I tour everywhere with my show and producing la di da. And I'm always saying, connect the dots, connect the dots. And I'm very happy that through my show, I now have all these little base camps. I have one in Mexico City and I have one in New York and Washington, you know, you have these base camps of like persons that you have the same visions and you have the same what, work ethic, you know, and that you're responsible. And the older I get, believe me, the less asked for among them. I get less patient. I have no patience for, if you're not over-professional and if you don't return an email and if you don't return a call, I'm just not happy. I don't have time. Nobody does today's, really. You know, oh, I checked my email for two days, really. You're not going to make it, honey. No, you've got to stay on top of it. You have to. You don't want to, but you've got to, really. And so those alliances and finding those like people is extremely important and it will serve you well. You know, I'm thrilled to be able to extend a hand to young people like Armando and I'm thrilled if they think that they can learn something from me. At the same time, my God, I learned something from these wonderful young people that I'm just so proud of them.  There's a gay frat at UCLA? Oh my God, I couldn't believe it. You know, and so it's thrilling for me to have lived to see all this happen with young people.  Five, six, seven, eight. Five, six, seven, eight. I think that is a gay Latino frat, isn't it? It is. It is. It is. It is now. No, it's, I love being these talented Latinos and they have to, they really have to do it all, but connect those dots. I work hard to keep your relationships. You have to, you know that. You know, all of a sudden I'll, my fantastic board, we just met a few, what, maybe a year ago and I just loved her. So I don't let her get away. She was at the odd tree and then she said she was leaving. I said, let me know where you are. I really liked her. We love her like, and maybe some day she can help me and maybe some day I can help her. It's all about relationships, but you do have to work at it. Answer your emails. Okay, before we wrap up, if there's, is there any last parting thoughts that you want to share with this group? Remember, these are artists. These are artists, they're producers, so they have like the right brain and the left brain thing going on. What are your parting thoughts for this group as you segue into it? I think you just have to have faith. You really, I keep going, oh my God. You know, I go between, I have this important little show and I can still do it. And yes, and then the next day I'm like, really? Who cares? Who wants to see an old man run around on stage telling about it? Yeah, so you know, and then I go, no, no, there's something important there and you have to really believe in your product and you have to believe that you have something that you can bring to the table. Because if not, then you should be doing it.  Keep on your path and believe in what you're doing and I believe that it'll all come out as it's supposed to come out. And it'll happen when you're ready. Right? That's good. Well, thank you and thank you for having me. We'll see you tomorrow night. We'll be here at seven o'clock. The Art and Community Engaged Theater. So we'll be back in just a moment at seven o'clock. Thank you guys so much. Thank you guys. Thank you.