to better predict displacement, prepare for them, and meet the needs of those who are finding refuge either in their own country or beyond its borders. Thank you very much for your kind attention. Thank you, Switzerland. Thank you. I have now His Excellency Mr. Daffa, Allah El-Haj Ali-Usmal and the Secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Dan Hadif-Law. Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem. Director General, Chair, thank you. It is my pleasure at the outset to commend the efforts of IOM and its judicious management and the critical role played at the international level and all the multilateral work undertaken and its positive role to meet the urgent needs of affected populations, Chair. We are here today in Geneva in order to discuss the effects of climate change on food security, migration and displacement. And in Sudan, we stand convinced that the relationship between all of these issues is a natural partnership in Sudan. We see these effects at first hand, particularly as we are among the more affected countries affected by climate change. Over the last few years, climate change between torrential rains, flooding in certain regions, droughts in others indeed, all of this has pushed thousands to leave their homes of origin in order to find new livelihoods in different regions, or even to emigrate beyond Sudan in order to find a dignified life. This displacement has caused, amongst others, tensions between populations from different ethnic backgrounds, because there is competition on the agriculture and water areas. This has led to violent and armed conflicts and has increased the number of IDPs, particularly in Darfur and other regions. Chair. The increase of the number of IDPs, which has gone beyond the figure of 3 million persons and the negative impacts of climate change on displacement and migration, the figures show the scope of damage with which many people are facing due to the heavy flooding in regions across Sudan in 2020. Once again, this year, this has also occurred. More than 500,000 people have been completely or partially affected. 100,000 have been displaced following the heavy rains that destroyed their agricultural land, their homes, and which were their very means of survival, their livestock have indeed perished. This situation underscored the importance of measures to introduce in order to address these climate challenges as best we can, especially measures for adaptation, which are fit for purpose, including policies and strategies to guarantee food security and to strengthen food production and to provide drinking water and to implement early warning systems, which are efficient and which are able to provide the data and necessary information in order to implement mitigation and adaptation programs that are efficient in the timeframe required. Chair, Sudan has been extremely active in all international meeting and fora, which are seeking to find solutions to climate change issues and as current president of the IGAD organization, which is trying to strengthen solutions across the region to meet the climate change issues, which have led to displacement and migration of a large number of people across our region. This issue will be a topic for discussion at the ministerial conference of countries, of the IGAD countries, which will take place in Khartoum next Wednesday, the 30th November 2022, and also in this vein and given the importance that we have forwarded to climate change, and we will participate in the, we have participated in the COP 27 meeting, which took place in Sharm al-Shaykh and Egypt recently, where our president reiterated the alignment and the importance of the Paris Agreement and the importance that Sudan affords to this very agreement. We also participated in parallel meetings during COP 27 in the Green Middle East conference and reiterated once again the resolve of Sudan to provide and to spare no efforts in order to implement all initiatives given international cooperation in order to address these global challenges, in particular climate change and food insecurity and displacement. Moreover, we attach great importance to all the regional international agreements, which seek to meet the and address the issues of climate change on migration and food security against this backdrop. The summit which took place in Algeria last week in early November with the League of Arab States, here we discussed the issue of food security and adopted the Sudanese initiative in this respect. This is an extremely important initiative for not only our country but for the whole region and the the world as a whole. Sudan is a country for many migrants to pass through and a destination country as well. We are in a situation of where migrants meet and mix. Climate change for us is very clearly linked to other issues in particular migration and organised and non-organised migration, licit and illicit, which is being forced by climate change. That is why we appeal to the international community to provide us with the necessary assistance in order to strengthen our capacity building in terms of logistics and technical areas so that we can address these challenges and these phenomena in order to find a solution to the root causes of this issue. Thank you very much chair. And I thank you very much Mr Dan. Thank you Excellency, thank you. We have four, I suppose four countries to remain on the list and we'll have to take them all in large part because we are really honoured by their presence here and not speaking online. So thank you so very much. So kindly let's be patient and listen to our kind distinguished visitors. I have miss, I know Lepid-Von-Gren director general department of international organizations and email rights, Estonia. You have the floor. Thank you. Chair, director general, Excellency's distinguished delegates. It's an honour to participate here today and to address you on behalf of Estonia. The topic of today's high level meeting is challenging and pertinent as ever. The science is clear. Climate change is happening and we see the effects everywhere. Droughts, floods and wildfires have all become more extreme. Sea levels are rising, glaciers are shrinking. Three weeks ago at the beginning of COP 27 in Shamal Sheikh, UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres rightly said, the clock is ticking. We are in the fight of our lives.  With this great reminder, he also called out for international solidarity across the board. Solidarity is surely needed as the impact of climate change reaches far beyond natural disasters and state borders. Large parts of the global south are hit particularly hard by the effects of the climate crisis. The most vulnerable people in different parts of our planet are being driven from regions and countries, their homes, because it is becoming unsustainable, impossible even to live there. Their livelihoods are destroyed, food in security is increasing. Estonia and our neighbours in the global north might seem not to be affected by migration and displacement caused by climate change. Yet, it is in the Arctic where environment and ecosystems are affected more severely than any other part of the world, being the fastest warming region on the planet. Still, it is global instability, conflict and decreasing resources fuelling by climate change that urge us all to act now. The world needs to pay more attention to how to increase the resilience of communities affected by climate change so that people do not have to make the difficult decisions to leave their homes. Anticipatory action is also crucial in addressing climate crisis phenomena as climate-related natural natural disasters can often be foreseen and thus their impact reduced. Given the interlinkage between climate change, food insecurity and migration, a new approach is called for. We need to apply the humanitarian development peace nexus approach to address the global challenges that we are facing. At the moment, Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine has triggered the worst refugee and humanitarian crisis in Europe since the Second World War. It has also caused an energy crisis leaving millions of people in a situation of energy poverty and demonstrates that the reliance on fossil fuels is a precarious choice in every way. Achieving climate neutrality by transition to renewable energy is a desired way forward. Estonia was completely dependent on our local fossil fuels only 30 years ago but we are now working for the transition to take place. Estonia now produces 50% of electricity from renewables and we plan to double it by 2030. Innovation and smart solutions play a key part in Estonian's path towards climate neutrality. Our experience could benefit to global climate action and green transition. Moreover, today's world should not be a world where millions of people do not know where their next meal will come from or hundreds of thousands of people face famine-like conditions. Russia's war against Ukraine has worsened dramatically the global food security crisis. As Russia has weaponized food and hunger since the very beginning of the war, ending the Russian aggression is the most effective way to restore stability in the global food markets. To conclude, Estonia is keeping the climate ambition high and we are committed to supporting those most vulnerable to climate change. We are financing the export of green technology solutions and know-how to developing countries. We firmly believe that all indigenous communities should have a strong voice in discussions on tackling climate change. I would like also to commend IOM for tackling this subject matter at this high-level session and for reminding us how interlinked climate change is with migration and food security. Thank you for your attention. Thank you, Excellency. Thank you. I have now Ms. Mary Ako Pian, the Petit Minister of International Affairs for Ukraine. Excellency of the floor. Thank you, dear Director General, Chairman, Colleagues. On behalf of the Ukrainian government and the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, it is my pleasure to greet the esteemed participants of 113 sessions of International Organization for Migration Council. I hope that our today's meeting will become another step for the development of international cooperation between participating states in the priority areas of migration policy. I also express gratitude to all the participating states and IOM leadership for their support, for their positive attitude toward the citizens of Ukraine who were forced to end up abroad. Your assistance and support is extremely important for our Ukrainians during last nine months. Due to the armed aggression by the Russian Federation, commenced on February 24 of this year, Ukraine faced new challenges and need in the sphere of migration as the war has led to humanitarian crisis and the largest wave of migration of our citizens, both within and outside the state. On these days, we honor the memory of the victims of Holodomor of 1932-1933 in Ukraine. So Ukrainians went through the genocide and today we are doing everything possible and impossible to stop Russia's new genocidal policy. And we don't just repeal aggressions. Step by step, we are creating a system that will stop aggression, dismantle its consequences and guarantee long-term security, security for Ukraine, for Europe and the whole world. Food security is one of the key elements of global stability and this is where Ukraine has leading role. Thanks to our presidential export grain initiative, Grain from Ukraine, we sent about 12 million tons of food to the 40 countries around the world. As part of the UN food security program, we help countries where people are literally starving or on the verge of starvation. All of us, not just we, are sending Ukrainian agricultural products to countries that suffered the most from the food crisis but also we reaffirm that hunger should not be used as a weapon again. For Ukraine to provide food to the world, Russia must keep face with the commitment and in a brutal war and constant attacks to critical Ukrainian infrastructure. If it's weren't for Ukrainian food, social stability in such regions as North Africa or the Middle East would not have been maintained, which actually Russia intended. I also would like to know that currently about 174,000 square kilometers of Ukrainian territory remain potentially contaminated with explosive objects with different types of explosives, even that one which is not allowed by Geneva Conventions, which makes up to almost 30 percent of the country's area contaminated and should be de-mined. This endangers the new-sowing campaign and further food supplies to the countries of the world. In order to avoid new famine as Russia seeks, it's necessary to de-mine the territories of Ukraine in a short time in order to carry out sowing for the next harvest. As at the beginning of hostilities, one and a half million Ukrainian citizens who left the temporarily occupied territories of Donetsk, Luhansk, Crimea were registered as internally displaced persons. At the same time, as of October 2022, there are four and a half million internally displaced persons registered. According to the IOM estimates, as of end of October 2022, the number of IDPs in Ukraine totals six and a half million people. As reported by Office of UN High Commissioner for Refugees between February 24 and beginning of November 2022, more than 15 million people crossing the border, Ukrainian citizens crossing the border, leaving the country recorded. In case of continuing Russia's missile attack on the territory of Ukraine and destruction of infrastructure, the number of citizens of our country who will be forced to leave their homes will increase manifold. Mostly, people move to safer western regions of Ukraine. The main problems they are facing are lack of housing, job offers, etc. That's what's forcing some citizens to leave Ukraine and depart to foreign countries. At the same time, following the liberation of the territory of Ukraine from Russian occupiers, some citizens return to their places of residence in spite of the fact that these may be life-threatening for them. The enemy army mined everything on its way while retreating, ranging from ordinary tripwires to anti-tank mines, concealed not only the roads but also the houses of civilians and even kids toys. The destruction of the infrastructure of citizen villages, constant attacks on energy facilities are the main factors for the increase in the numbers of migration of citizens, both internally displaced and those who went abroad. Moreover, these attacks affect the provision of food, medicine, providing medical care, etc. to the population. Constant missile strikes make it possible to restore infrastructure and return citizens to the normal lives. People are in a cold, cut-from-heating electricity, water, and gas supplies. Ukrainian doctors perform extremely complex surgeries on even including herd surgeries in cold premises with no light, placing flashlights on their heads and without hot or cold water in medical facilities. Given the present circumstances in Ukraine established as a result of the armed aggression from Russian side against Ukraine, leading to the largest migration of Ukrainian citizens outside the border of our state, Ukraine is interested in the utmost observance of the right and freedom of Ukrainians abroad and most importantly in return of its citizens after the Ukrainian victory. Recently, the Minister of Internal Affairs, taking care and trying following all the citizens who are staying in EU member states and other countries, we provide mobile migration offices in Poland and Czech Republic for issuing new documents to our citizens in exchange for expired documents and you know that many of our citizens live the country without any kind of documentation. Ukraine is grateful to all of our partners for their assistance and all that support and treatment of Ukraine for protecting right and freedoms for opening borders to Ukrainians in the most difficult times for our country. In addition, Ukrainians are waiting for real action and help in overcoming the terrible challenging facing us this winter. Well, looking forward to further enhanced cooperation, thank you for opportunity to address Council today. Thank you. Thank you, Excellency. Thank you very much. I have on my list now Chile and then Argentina is the last on my list. His Excellency, Mr Rodrigo Donoso Malouf, Director-General, Councilor of Heirs Immigration and Chileans abroad. We have the floor. Excellent. Thank you. Warm greetings to the Director-General, the Chair of the Council and the distinguished delegates present at the 113th session of the IOM Council. The Secretary-General of the United Nations qualified climate change as a red alert for humanity and he called for a climate solidarity pact which will allow rapid implementation and real action to reduce emissions and limit global warming below 1.5 degrees centigrade in compared to pre-industrial levels. It's very relevant that we identify the relationship between climate change, food security, migration and displacements given that environmental changes interact with other factors, be they political, economic and geographic and they influence the decisions that individuals and their families take to leave their place of origin and the level to the extent to which it's voluntary or not. Today we know that around 30 million people were internally displaced due to climate change factors. In 2050 it is expected to be more than 216 million people who will be forced to leave and migrate for climate change reasons and of those 17 million will take place in Latin America and the Caribbean. It's clear that migration for environmental reasons has stopped being an isolated subject and is now of international concern. It has gone to become part of the political agendas of countries and governments on a national, regional and global level. I would like to highlight eight points on how we see the situation from South America's. One of the external axes of policy for Chile is referred to the commitment of raising in all international bodies matters that relate to climate change from a multidimensional point of view and they have the traditional matters of the protection of the environment and we call this the turquoise policy because it covers marine ecosystems. Another aspect is that we are leading efforts in the region through initiatives by the creation of a coalition of the Americas for the Protection of the Ocean which establishes an interconnected network of protected marine zones from Canada right down to Chile. In addition we are driving the creation of a climate change observatory which has a network of sensors from the extreme north of our country down to the polar station in Chile and Antarctica. If I go on to the fourth point, within the specific area of human mobility, Chile has a human mobility and climate change roundtable which has been developing national guidelines for public policy within the dynamics of human mobility in the context of climate change and natural disasters. I would also like to mention the work that Chile is doing to drive the use of liquid hydrogen. Fifth point within the framework of the pro-temporary chairmanship by Chile of the 20th South American Conference on Migration, we achieved major progress along with 12 other countries. We worked on the area of environmental migration and I'd like to highlight that this is the only regional consultative process that looks at this in a systematic manner. Chile wanted and decided on the need to work and progress on the generation and exchange of disaggregated data on cross-border movements which are due to climate change and this is happening across the South American region. We are also working on regional guidelines in the area of protection and assistance of displaced persons across borders and migrants in countries that are affected by disasters and we are working in conjunction with the platform on disaster displacement. I would also like to highlight that countries members of the South American Conference on Migration have subscribed to a joint position statement to the COP 27 where we call for cooperation from the international community when it comes to the realities of the South American region in the specific subject of human mobility and we're already preparing our positions for COP 28. We welcome the efforts that are being made to tackle human mobility in the context of climate change at the recent COP 27 under the urgent need to put into practice a set of agreements that the international community has reached with specific action for local national and regional context and we'd like to call on everyone to go further into depth on the cooperation between the IOM and the South American region for the development of guiding policies to assist and protect migrants and families who are most affected by the adverse impact of climate change. We will also look for alliances with strategic action actors such as the platform on disaster displacement to the European Union and other stakeholders to strengthen capacity in the South American region through the use of technical and financial support and finally Chile reaffirms at this council its vocation to agree positions promote cooperation alliances which will accelerate mitigation measures and adaptation to climate change phenomena on a global level and to look at the effects on human mobility. Thank you very much. And thank you excellency thank you very much. I now have Mr. Andrew Perry Escriville director of international he has national directorate for migration Argentina as my last pick on my list. You have the floor excellency. Thank you very much chair director general of the IOM of the FAO all those present we'd like to thank the IOM for raising the importance of this subject both on a global level and in Latin America in general where we see an alarming panorama or in terms of food security and the increase in disasters brought about by the impact of climate change both processes overlap and feedback to others affecting certain population groups but society as a whole when it comes to food security we set out the law 25 7 24 in 2003 and in 2020 we had a plan against hunger and within the UN FCC we've been working on the subject and also with the Paris Agreement in 2015 this year we've approved a national adaptation and mitigation plan which goes to 2030 we have one of the most consolidated institutional models on a global level when it comes to the respect of the human rights of migrants our national constitution promotes immigration and we are one of the countries that has ratified the most human rights conventions within the universal system and the inter-american system and we ensure that there is equality of treatment of all including our nationals and non-nationals our country has signed many international agreements including the global compact on safe orderly and regular migration the global compact for refugees the Sendai framework and we work together to find state responses to the growing phenomenon of forced displacement through natural disasters and within this framework we have set up a program for humanitarian visas for people who are nationals and residents in in Mexico Central America and the Caribbean who have been displaced by displaced by social and natural disasters and we cannot find bearing in mind that their nationals cannot establish themselves in Argentina under the criteria of nationality but it applies to nationals of countries in Mercasur and associated states it is a permanent position which ensures that we offer collaboration to states in 23 countries across Latin America and the Caribbean or should there be any natural disasters the targeted population whether they are internal displaced or cross-border displaced whatever their migratory status can request a visa the humanitarian visa is being developed with many international actors to ensure that we can maintain its sustainability across time and we are pioneers in our region with this system we also have a focus on South American migration and we have set up mechanisms to act where there is massive ingress or a sudden ingress of displaced persons due to various disasters and this includes Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay we have also played an important role in terms of international cooperation we were elected this year to chair pro-temporary the iber-american migration authorities network and we're working in more than 10 countries to work with cross-border displacement and assistance to persons in the context of disasters in a few weeks we will also take on the pro-temporary chairmanship of the specialized American migration forum for the first semester of 2023 where we will work on a regulatory project which will work on human mobility in the context of disasters and we are also working on a regional network on migration the environment natural disasters and climate change within the framework of the South American migration conference and this was chaired by Argentina in 2021 and we want to continue contributing to the guidelines the Chileans have already mentioned we have a clear and active position through our legislation public policy and international cooperation because we have a commitment to leave no one behind all countries to have responsibilities to take on and we have to ensure that we don't forget these crises continue to occur we need to work in an integrated and comprehensive comprehensive manner internationally and across governments so that we can build greater levels of resilience in our societies no one can develop alone thank you for listening and i'd like to thank the IOM yet again for their constant support thank you thank you thank you thank you so much we come to the close of the meeting today I thank you all for the very insightful sometimes very passionate statements as you've made there's still a long list of speakers so tomorrow we begin with that my low speakers at 10 a.m in the meantime there is a reception just across the hall somewhere so why can't we go and have a little booze thank you all I thank you very much thank you yes you can you can toast me it's my birthday


What's going on everyone? Sam here with late in sports cards We're in one box of 2022 Leaf stitches and slabs basketball for Tommy L. It's good luck here Tommy. Tommy Let's do it buddy. Oh nasty jersey for you, man. Oh nice Hold one of these yesterday as well. We got a Tyler hero signed Jersey. Are they heat nice one there? That is gonna be signed on the one in 14 Did the exact same thing today too Nice one there congrats Tommy. That's pretty sick Tyler here PSA nine John Morant Rookie 2019 prism congrats man. There you go Tommy. Take that all day. That is sick Congrats on the jaw. We'll take the jaw for sure Absolutely even days the president right now That'll do it for your break there Tommy congrats again on the hits man. We'll get them right out to you. Thanks as always buddy


I'm Jay Fidel, this is Think Tech Hawaii, broadcasting out of Honolulu, but we have people from other places too this morning. This is the middle way featuring Russell Liu and Chang Wang. Russell is here in Honolulu, and Chang is in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We have a special guest for a special show about the special spring festival that's Dave Larson. So first Russell would like you to introduce Chang, and then Chang can introduce Dave Larson. What do you think? Great, good morning Jay Aloha. Welcome everybody, and I want to first introduce Chang Wang.  Then we have professor David Larson, who is a world renowned expert, a law professor on dispute resolution. And he's famous because he's actively involved with the American Bar Association, but he also hails from Minnesota, and he's in St. Paul, Minnesota. So these are our two guests there, Jay, from Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I think it's really cold there now. Sure it is. So welcome to the show, Chang and also David, and Russell of course, thank you for being here. We're gonna celebrate the spring festival today in our own way. So Chang, can you give us the scope of the show as you see it? What are we gonna do here today in the middle way? Yes, three days we will be say goodbye to the year of the mouse or the year of the rat, and the entering the year of the ox. The spring festival or the Chinese New Year will be on Thursday. The Chinese New Year is the biggest holiday in Chinese culture. And not only in mainland China, but also in the historically heavily influenced by Chinese culture, those regions and countries, like Korea, Vietnam, and other regions, Philippines, Myanmar as well. This year, we very much look forward to this year because this year, we had a not very good year in the year of the mouse. But all of us, Professor Larson and Russell and I, very much look forward to the year of the ox. And also this spring festival is means allowed to each one of us. So today, I'd like to suggest each one of us, Professor Larson as a mean sultan with heavy Chinese connection. Russell as a third generation or fourth generation Chinese-American. And I as a fourth generation, transplant Chinese mean sultan to share with you and our audience what spring festival mean to each one of us. And perhaps we can review the past year and make some predictions, hopefully optimistic about the upcoming year of ox. Okay, we'll do it in two rotations. One is, what do you think about the year of the ox and the transition to the year of the ox? And then we'll go around again a little later and we'll talk about your prediction. David Larson, why don't you go first and explain a little bit about the connection between alternative dispute resolution and China. How does that connect for you? That was a lot to talk about. I'll just mention first for everybody in Hawaii, yesterday the wind chill in the Twin Cities was at 35 degrees below zero. We did not get above zero in temperature. And in Northern Minnesota, we had a wind chill of 50 degrees below zero, which if you've ever experienced that, it's not cold, it's pain. I like the idea of celebrating a spring festival. I can't wait for spring. I've been working the field of online dispute resolution for decades. Right now my focus is on online dispute resolution and we've got a really strong connection with China right now because of China has been one of the leaders in online dispute resolution, setting up the first online court in Hongzhou and they've expanded Beijing. I know they've gone into other parts of China, but they've been very progressive in terms of implementing and designing online dispute resolution, which is something I've been doing here in the United States. I've been the system designer for the New York Unified State Court System. And we just on January 29th, this few days ago launched a small claims online dispute resolution platform. Before you go into the main thrust of the show, let me ask you about that. I've always wondered even from way back when whether you could computerize justice and online dispute resolution sounds like one step in that direction. How far is it from online dispute resolution such as you are establishing now to online dispute resolution, which is run by AI where all the rules are written down and all the evidence is evaluated automatically. Are we on that path, David? Yeah, well, okay, a couple of things. One of the motivations for online dispute resolution right now is increasing access to justice. There's a lot of reasons why people don't appear in court and it can be because they don't have childcare, they don't have vacation days, they're afraid, they're intimidated by the other party. So one thing you can do with online dispute resolution is have an asynchronous platform that allows people to log on from their home or from their car or whatever is convenient and people can participate in justice in ways they have never been able to before. And the first thing we worked on in New York was credit card debt collection, where the default rate is up in the 90% tiles and the whole goal was try to get people engaged more with the court system and get past that terribly high default rate. So in the short term, we're just thinking about making it more convenient and accessible for people and including people with disabilities. Will the day come where we have robot judges? We might, I think that we have to be very careful about that because there's this kind of expression of garbage in, garbage out.  And if you're using machine learning, which basically learns from all the things that it interacts with previously, if you have biases built into all that data coming in, those biases are just gonna be perpetuated. So I think you can do a lot of things with artificial intelligence, but you have to be very vigilant to make certain that you're not repeating some of the mistakes we've made in the past. Very interesting. And I hope you can come back and do a full show on that very subject. That's fascinating. Okay, but let's move on to your impressions of the spring festival. What does it mean to you? I think like billions of people, it's not exaggeration. It's like, thank God, we're moving on. Of the year, the rat was a terrible year. And my understanding is your ox, the ox stands for more stability. And I'm really looking forward from, with the combination of political unrest in the United States, very destabilizing, certainly with the pandemic, very destabilizing. I'm really looking forward to a year where we can get on more steady, stable ground. What role does it play in the larger Chinese landscape? I mean, it's paying homage to what? To the Chinese culture, I guess, maybe to some ancient bread of Buddhism. And certainly it's paying homage to, paying homage to taking some time off. So it's very popular. What does it mean? What does it mean in the landscape? Is this something that the government wants to see perpetuated? Well, my understanding is it's a period of kind of rebirth and looking forward. You know, it's at least a week long festival, maybe longer than that, up to 15 days. It's a period of time where there's a traditional reunion. That's why it's the largest travel day of the year. And I don't know what's gonna happen this year with COVID-19, what the impact will be on travel. I mentioned that there was an article in today's paper, I think it was the Times indicating that the government was slowing it down, discouraging people from taking the time off. And I guess that's all about COVID and the variants and what have you. People are very concerned about that in China. They don't like it at all. Well, I hope so. And I hope people remain concerned here because we certainly are past it. But, you know, there's reunion dinners. So you get together with your family.  You kind of organize your life. I think it's a period generally of optimism. It's a period where you're kind of washing away the bad and you're trying to attract the good. I have my little red panda tie on today. So I'm wearing red because I want to attract the good luck and bring it into the year of the ox. So I think generally it's a period of optimism, a period of rebirth. I think that actually going into last year, the year of the rat, there was some negative anticipation. There were people predicting it was not gonna be a great year. There's more optimism for the year of the ox. I think there's even gonna be more in 2022 for the year of the tiger. But I think we're on a really good track. Good. Okay, Russell, how about you?  This family has lived in Hawaii and the U.S. for multiple generations. And Hawaii certainly has a lot of activity or has had a lot of activity in Chinatown every year at the New Year Festival. But what about you? Jay, that's a really good question because from my perspective, you know, I'm three, four generations American-Chinese here. You know, growing up in the cultural realm here, Chinese New Year meant that you would clean your room before the New Year. On the New Year, you can't actually take a broom and sweep it. You have to do it before the New Year. And so it's really washing away the spirits, the bad things. I think what David has mentioned. And I think in a greater context, what I think after being in China for 20 years, it's also the Chinese celebrating because they're more of a culture, a civilization state where culture holds them together. That culture means that everybody looks at this as something, again, that has last on for thousands of years. You know, the first recorded Chinese New Year was in the 1400 BC. I think it was the Shang Dynasty in a place called Anyang, which I had visited and where they wrote and recorded the New Years on a cattle bone, okay? And, you know, so it's a long history, thousands of years. And so, again, mix that in with what David has mentioned. It's cleaning out, looking forward to New Year. It's another year in this rite of passage that continues on. Okay, and Chang, you know, you still have family connections in China. You haven't left it that long ago. So maybe the Chinese New Year's festival means something nostalgic to you. Tell us about your experiences. Okay, I don't know exactly where I should start because Spring Festival means so much to Chinese, particularly for the first-generation Chinese. So let's start with a historical background or the philosophical discussion of what exactly means Spring Festival. On the lunar calendar, as Russell said, it's really festival having recorded 100 years ago, basically on the lunar calendar. The lunar calendar rotates on a 60-year cycles based on 12 animals. And you'll heard of that zodiac, 12 animals, and the five fundamental elements of the universe. The five fundamental elements of the universe according to traditional Chinese philosophers were gold or metal, wood, water, fire, and earth. Then you have 12 animals multiplied by five elements. You have 60, right, the number of 60. So in the traditional Chinese lunar calendar, the 60 years is a full cycle. It keeps rotating. So last year was the year of the rat, but on the 60 years rotation, it was xinchong. The year, no, gengzi, the year of the gengzi. Gengzi was a terrible year on lunar calendar. So think about it, 1840, the open war between the British and Chinese, and the Chinese lost. 1900, the Boston Rebellion. And the Boston Rebellion in the late Qing dynasty killed many Western diplomats. Then the Western Eighth Country Alliance invaded Beijing, killed many Westerners. Then there was a treaty, a surrender treaty signed between China and the Western Eighth countries. In 1960, another year of gengzi, the Great Famine. The Great Famine started, the total Great Famine from 59 to 61, approximately millions, millions of people died of hunger. So that was not a very good year. So 2020 was well-expected, it was not a good year. This year and last year, the driving force in Chinese philosophy, yin yang, the positive and negative force. Last year, driving force was yang, yang means fast, active, and ever-changing. So it was a dramatic year. Everybody never happened before in history. Every single human being's life on its planet was somehow affected by this, what happened to COVID-19. So this year is associated with yin, the negative force, which is a soft, passive, and moderate. So we should expect something good gonna happen this year, nothing dramatic, but we are on the right path of recovery. So in the year of ox, or associated with gold ox, we should begin to see some level of normalcy, returns, some reason and decency returns, and American returns to a land of possibilities. So that is a whole picture. Who, me and my family personally, it's a year as Professor Larson mentioned, Spring Festival is the biggest Chinese holiday, and Professor Larson and Russell, you can celebrate up to two weeks. I'm going to celebrate up to three weeks. Why? Because seven days before the new year was the mini Spring Festival, and then two weeks after the Spring Festival is the Lantern Festival. So these whole three weeks, we are in a celebratory mood, but we are gonna celebrate every single day. But the most important celebration definitely is on New Year's Eve. It's not the New Year itself, not Thursday, but Wednesday afternoon, Wednesday morning, or Wednesday evening, that was the New Year's Eve. Traditionally, all members of Chinese family, entire family, and including extended family will sit together on a dining table, and then everybody is going to work together, wrap dumplings, dumplings, jiaozi together, and then boil the dumpling and eat the dumpling together. Fortunately for the past 20 years, I've been in the United States, I really had the opportunity to sit down with my parents and my extended families, wrap dumplings to celebrate the new year. But this year, my wife and I will still make a lot of dumplings for ourselves and for our Chinese dogs. Very interesting, very cultural, very family, very family. But David Larson, what about to travel? We hear that the Chinese New Year is a time for travel, and people have the ability to go for two weeks without having to work with three. They, traditionally, to my understanding, they do a lot of traveling all around the world. Is that still happening? Yeah, I think it's gonna be a really frustrating year because it's such an important holiday and it's such a strong tradition. Not being able to travel, I think is going to take a lot of the joy away from a number of people. One good thing, however, is that in 2021, we have technology in ways we never did before. So if this had happened 30 years ago, I think it would have been much more difficult than it is now because we can do what we're doing right here at this moment. We can get together using video conferencing and other technologies and feel a sense of connection that we otherwise would not be able to do. So even though there are gonna be limitations on physical travel, fortunately, in that period when we're living, there are some alternatives. Yeah, I suppose, if you have a little extra time, you could do some online mediation during the festival. Yeah, well, or you can do some dumpling making.  Thank you for that. So we were gonna talk about where this fits in history and Chang made it clear that it's unprecedented. That's so to you, but the query, how is it affected by history and how does it affect history? Traditionally, and in 2020, and now going into 2021. This is a historical and historical moment for both years.  And what is your thought about what's gonna happen this year? Well, one thing, at least from the North American perspective, is that a lot of things are never going back. I think employers have discovered that people can be productive working from home, that they can save money by not renting office space or building buildings. And I think that's gonna be a fundamental change in how we work, that much more of our lives is going to be away from a communal workplace. Yeah, so that's clear in the United States, it's clear in Honolulu, Brussels can tell us, but is it clear in China? Is the same phenomenon rising up in China that we don't need these buildings? We can work from home. Is that visible in China as well? China's situation is different. China have this COVID-19 totally under control. So China is already back to normal, quote unquote.  In term of this North America perspective that we all go virtual online, all the conference is on Zoom right now, China is different. So what that really means, we don't know yet, because China is one of probably the only large economy reported the significant growth in GDP in 2020. And also China is leading a lot of sectors and industries. So they are quite confident that they are almost fully recovered, but with these variants from South Africa and from Brazil, we don't know, there will be cluster here and there, but China will not be totally back to normal yet. But the one lesson we learned from the 2020 or the year of grad, probably you can say that it appears that effective governing is very, very important. Like some journalists already observed, this COVID-19 in 2020, very uncomfortably exposed, everything wrong with the American system, with our bureaucratic system, with our governing, with our efficiency, that hopefully this year that we will figure out how to deal with the virus, because these virus will not go away immediately. It will be here with us for some years and might be some regular thing. But I still believe we are on the red track to recovery and with a very competent federal government and we have a very good state government in Minnesota, we believe that we will figure out how to deal with it. You know, as David said a little while ago, there's the bright side. We find that we don't need certain structures and institutions and we can use the technology going forward. And maybe this ability, this opportunity to rethink things gives us a handle on solving some problems. And I wonder if the, and I think that's clear in the US, I think it's also clear in China, but David, can you give us a handle on how you think China is going to change? For example, I mean, there are issues around the government, there are issues around human rights. Are those things gonna change as a consequence of this traumatic experience over the festival and over COVID? Well, you know, that's a very subjective kind of question. I think China may be, if not unique, in a small unique group of countries that exert a very strong hand in terms of the authoritarian nature of the government. So whether there's going to be any kind of dramatic change in Chinese society in the immediate future, I don't see it. Even though there are some earth shattering kinds of forces taking place, I just think that China has such a pervasive influence and touch to its population that it's gonna be very difficult to have any kind of dramatic societal change. So I guess I don't anticipate that. On the other hand, teaching things ability to deal with COVID has been remarkable and successful. You know, you could say that he has enhanced and consolidated his power by virtue of his success. I think people see just a wild guess, but people see this as a contribution he's made to the country and they appreciate it. They appreciate the fact that it never got all that bad because he stepped in early and took dramatic steps to curtail the pandemic. Don't you think that? He's done well and he is more respected now. Yeah, so that just kind of supports my suspicion that we're not gonna see any kind of fundamental change in any time soon. Let's just add a word. You've lived in Hawaii for a good part of your life and what you've seen for a dozen plus years life in China. And one thing about Hawaii is that the Chinese community has assimilated here more than perhaps in any place in the country and it has into married and it has lived among half a dozen other nationalities for as long as it's been here. And that certainly has an effect of fragmenting its culture points like the festival. So although we see the festival taking place, we have seen the festival taking place in Chinatown and other Chinese communities around the state. It seems to me that it is not as strong as it was perhaps in the 19th century. What do you think? Is it still celebrated here? Jay, that's a good question. I think it's still celebrated here but it's celebrated not only with Chinese but I think the different ethnic groups because everybody observes the different holidays together. I found that there's a unifying theme in Hawaii that's very different than maybe Minnesota or maybe not but there's a lot of similar in Hawaii in China and in Hawaii with the word Ohana, my wife keeps mentioning Ohana, she's from China and what it means to Chang and David and his family. And so the cultural aspect of family still resonates and even if it's the Chinese New Year holiday, it's as David said, the family gets together and Chang said, the family gets together which is the emphasis. So I see that holiday is still perpetuated even though the local Chinese four generation are getting fewer and fewer, they're intermarrying but there's also larger pockets of immigrants from China and I notice they're all from Fujian now, I see around town and in fact in Chinatown I get more vegetables grown that I can get in China that I could not get here 10, 15 years ago and they're all things that would eat in China so I never miss a heartbeat. But again, to answer your question, I think that holidays are still being celebrated here because the whole concept is family and I think that's what it's all about in my eyes. Let me go around and ask you, fellas, one more question and that is, we live in a world of change, the only thing that is certain is change itself. And I would venture to say things around the world are changing more now and faster now than perhaps any time in my lifetime, maybe in yours as well. And one of the things that's been changing is the festival, every year, awkward, every year a celebration involving the whole family just as tight as the Chinese culture could be. So my question to you, let's start with Cheng, is where is this going? Is this changing? Is it dissipating in some way? Is it getting stronger? Where do you see it going in say 10 or 15 or 20 years? Will it be the same cultural intensity as it has been? In the time of globalization, cultural identity is of utter most importance. So for the good part that people can find spiritual resources from their traditional culture and on the bad part that we see also the rise of white supremacy and populism. So nothing is permanent in time and particularly in Chinese traditional philosophy. So change is always, even in the time of globalization and the change will stay, but if there is something will always be there, that is the family value and the cultural identity. So I just want to take this opportunity to say that, to say wishing each one of you and all our audience are very happy as Prosperous New Year in the coming year of the Code Ox, as we say in Chinese language, goji fathai, wish you a large fortune, make a lot of money in the coming year. I don't wanna correct you, I never wanna correct you, but I have understood for many years that one says Shinyan Kuala. Shinyan Kuala is a new year. Goji fathai is a wish you a very Prosperous Year. That's a force brief festival here. Chang, that's in Cantonese and the people of Cantonese are always thinking about money. The way we see in Mandarin as well, Mandarin is a different pronunciation. Goji fathai. David, over the past few years under the Trump administration, we've seen a certain amount of anti-Asian, anti-Chinese sentiment raised in the country. And I wonder how you think that affects the way that Chinese in the United States deal with this and for that matter, their celebration of festivals and the like. And do you think under the Biden administration, we will see a change in that? Well, that's a whole nother program. There's a lot we could talk about under the previous administration, but I think it was destructive in numerous different ways. And every time I heard him refer to COVID-19 as he often did, it was just, I thought it was just disgusting. It was a, it was, it was fostering fear. It was intimidating. It was separating divisive. So I, I, I hate to say the bar is so low that we can't do worse, but I actually feel that way. We can't do worse, but I'm optimistic that President Biden is coming from a very different place and we'll work very hard to mend some of those fences and to kind of reconnect parts of our society that have really been torn apart. Yeah, there are two thoughts that come to me. The one is if you find as a, you know, a racist sentiment in the country, that, you know, that makes you not want to identify, perhaps not want to follow the cultural norms within your, within your culture. And on the other hand, it also maybe brings people together. I mean, I, for example, the Jews, they weren't religious before the Holocaust, many of them in Europe. They became religious or more religious, the consequence of the Holocaust. They brought them together. And so I wonder if, you know, which one of those possibilities you see as, as prevailing does racial prejudice, anti-racial sentiment bring the Chinese as one group closer together or does it make them not want to identify with cultural festivals in the life? You know, I think that, you know, part of it's your perception of whether or not there's any point to it, whether or not you can have any success. And I think the Black Lives Movement has demonstrated that you can affect change. The Me Too movement has shown that if you organize and you are active, you can affect change. So sometimes when you're faced with conflict, it does strengthen communities. And I think that that can happen. Earlier, we're talking about technology and how you can start working at home. And, you know, and that separates communities in very real ways. And I think there is a reaction to that. Sometimes people look for how can I connect on a personal level in ways I have not been able to now that we're working apart and living apart using technology. And that drives us back to some of our holidays. And I know people this year in the United States who said Christmas cards, who never send Christmas cards for the past 10 years just because with the combination of the pandemic and social isolation and more technology, they're feeling very separated from everybody. And so I think that holidays can be a moment in time where we step back and make a real effort to connect on a very intimate personal level. A gathering place, a gathering point. It's a lovely thought and reality. Russell, is that the reality here in our aluminum? You know, I think it is a reality. I think, especially this place has so many different cultures. And again, we celebrate different cultures. And, you know, in response to your question about the Chinese New Year, what will it go on? I think it always will because it's like the Chinese are saying flow like water. It's like water that goes down in the river. There's a stone. There's a big stone here, and then you pass it. And there's a small stone. So everything, water goes around it. It's like that. It will continue to flow. I'm reminded of a pronunciation I never got right, Zhang. It was, it was something like straight-out Xu Cheng. Have you heard that? Straight-out Xu Cheng. Straight-out Xu Cheng. Yes, exactly. Water, water, water will run this way. Find its way, it will. And that's the optimism, Jay. That's the optimism. It's gonna find its way. We have a new leadership. Things change, you know? And we just have to go with the flow, like they say. And it'll be all right. Thank you, Russell. Russell Liu, Cheng Wang, and Professor David Larson. Thank you so much all of you for joining us today and for this very enlightening discussion. Aloha. Not only straight-out Xu Cheng, but also Xinjian Faizi. Okay, may I say that? Gong Xi Fa, sorry. Thank you, Gong Xi Fa.