Okay, so welcome everybody. Good morning after a little bit of technical differences. I think we have this pretty much working So my name is Marcel Holtmann and I'm gonna give you an introduction into what we have leased a couple of months ago Which is a brand-new Bluetooth standard So before I go any further as usual since I work for Intel blah blah blah disclaimers So Linux is you know stored straight marks. Zephyr is a Linux foundation thread mark and Bluetooth is a bit of sick trademark Everything else are trademarks as well if I forgot to actually mark them correctly Um Quick one about myself. So I've been doing the Linux Bluetooth stack since 2004, which is already an awful long time In the meantime, I created Conman a connection manager phone a cellular stack Pack runner for handling proxy setups L embedded Linux library and also IWD Which you can actually hear about tomorrow if you care about what we have done in the last year on that one I joined into in 2007. So it's pretty much 10 years right at Intel so far I'd share the internet working group. So we're trying to actually get more IP networks over Bluetooth and integrate it more properly I'm sitting on the architecture review board as well. So spending a lot of boring time on review specs and standards And I've contributed massively to the mesh standard that I'm going to introduce you today So it has been Something around three years right actually getting the standard out the door including getting some implementations of it around as well So why actually Redoing everything and all over again. So pretty much this weird hype term of Internet of Things drives a lot of innovation Fundamentally breaks down is that we want to actually connect everything and you're not going to connect anything with cables So we need to start picking the wireless standard We want to use and there's so multitudes of wireless standards around for any kind of embedded device or Internet of Things standards The really only problem is that which ones you're going to pick and if you pick one You can't do the other one if you pick this one is maybe not in the phone Your phone is with you it on a daily basis and so on and so forth So when we set out around three years ago to actually do Bluetooth measures like look We want to actually get something that is in the phone. So either do Wi-Fi or you do Bluetooth Or you do cellular 5G for example, but the lowest power one is Bluetooth So we actually focus on let's get Bluetooth going instead of trying to make 15.4 better and get it integrated into the phones or use LoRa or any kind of light-based standard etc and Obviously the choice is pretty obvious since everything is better with Bluetooth anyway. So We picked on trying to do the next generation of Bluetooth Before we actually introduced Bluetooth mesh Bluetooth was rather boring technology It was point-to-point and had it's around since before 2000. So it's a really old standard So we have I think we approaching next their 20 years of Bluetooth But if you see the left-hand side you see Bluetooth classic Which is pretty much used for in-car communication headsets and so on and so forth and then about Seven years ago. They actually set out and say look We actually gonna have to do something for low power devices We have to do stuff off power footprint on this one and the memory footprint to actually make them run on coin cell battery for a year or even longer and as is thought called Bluetooth low energy or Bluetooth smart and So back in the days the sick came up with some weird terminology and okay We have Bluetooth classic we have blue to smart when we are smart ready and smart ready Just means you have the dual mode Devices combined that can talk to both side, but classic devices can't talk to the energy devices You always need one in the middle that I can shoot both so until about Beginning of this year that was a standard how we had it point-to-point dual mode devices Your phone was a dual mode device Your headset was a single mode for classic and your heart rate monitor was a single mode for low energy That got completely turned around and made a lot more complicated beginning of the year So they keep classic around it stays point to point but for low energy We actually introduced multiple extra things so you can still do point-to-point read your sensor data from your heart rate monitor Etc, but you can also do massive broadcasting because we have all this beacon market We have a location positioning and so on and so forth so you can basically broadcast your location or any information like URLs Eddy stone I beacon etc And then on top of that one now you had mesh you can span mesh topologies and actually do something for this for lighting or something else It gets a lot more complicated and go through this in a little bit detail But fundamentally on the left side classic is what it is There's no innovation happening on classic all the innovation happens in low energy You will still use classic if you use a Bluetooth headset for a really long time My prediction is at least the next eight to ten years, but every new development will happen on Bluetooth le The thing is when you actually have a point-to-point technology and one extent this with mesh You can't do this just by saying I'm going to build a mesh technology and that I'm done with it You need a lot more so even if your network layer is mesh capable That doesn't mean you can't do anything without you need to actually lay us on top that actually know how to do certain things When we set out to do Bluetooth mesh the fundamental problem was if we actually have to broadcast data The maximum PDU size is 31 octets. You have to subtract two octets for actually get the basic information Prepended on this once you're left with 29 octets to do a secure mesh capable network So that's quite a challenge And that's what actually led to this whole stack that we actually had to do on these multiple levels So the bearer is pretty much where you have the minimum of 20 on octets That the alternate bearers if you actually interconnection or if your connection less Then you have your network layer that will define your basic PDU formats and I have a diagram of this one later So don't worry. I'll show you this one as well But it does addressing how you address one node in a network how you do encryption decryption And especially also make sure that everything is authenticated and secure So mesh or Bluetooth mesh and specific. There's no unsecure network. The network is always encrypted and authenticated We can't actually do any unsecure networks And we separate in network encryption from application encryption because that's two independent things You have because you're operating 20 nanok tets. We had to do a segmentation and reassembly layer And then we had to have a level that actually encrypts the other application messages and authenticates them We need to define how you do the data formats because if you only have 29 octets And you want to tell a lamb to go on you don't want to spend over three messages because then they keep waiting for these messages to arrive So you want to keep them as short as possible So you also need to play a little trickery with me with the message formats Then you need to configure this whole network because if you don't know how to build your network configured and use it It's pretty much uses then you just have a network and can't do anything with this one and then you want to have actually do Lightning models on this one or power models or something else So actually you can switch on something off you can switch something off Or you can get sensor data like your HVAC is at this term at this operational mode, etc What is really important mesh is not a new radio we didn't build a new radio We didn't build in your Mac layer. We just built a network topology So you actually have Bluetooth or energy as the basic radio around it And then the topology on how you actually turn that one into mesh network is what we have defined and if we recap this We get to the level that we actually have The old classic pairing side of things where you have one device and otherwise. So pretty much point-to-point Mesh can use this as well for like for backwards Compatibility so if you have a device that doesn't know how to do broadcasting or doesn't know how to do mesh You can use a point-to-point connection as a single entry hop into the network and say look I Will I will bridge you into this network if you can't do anything else Which is great So you can take a current phone that you have install an application and you can get access to a mesh network But fundamentally if you want to build the mesh you need to broadcast the packets because we can't do any point-to-point connections anymore and Actually building start topology or mesh topology based on point-to-point connections is really complicated Because you spend a lot of time actually managing this one and you actually need a lot of memory So assume we want to run this on coins for batteries and we need to manage hundred and or thousand nodes You don't have the memory capacity in your controller to actually do these so we broadcasting every packet out Which means we actually use the advertising feature of Bluetooth for energy to just send a packet and whoever's in vicinity will receive that packet and Based on that one Then you finally enter the level where you actually get a mesh topology where you say look all these Devices have the same keys and the same network and they can successfully talk to each other and we can actually have addresses assigned to any of these nodes I Will get back to this one how the topology is built in a in a slide or two, but this is just the basic idea I grabbed a stack diagram from Nordic to just show you how they actually This is fundamentally different than what else you have done before so on the middle side You see the good old Bluetooth low energy stack. You have a link layer of your to cap You have security manager you have add you have got you have gap and that's pretty much Everything runs today Nordic always has some extra specifics around but there's good for demonstration purposes on how they actually had to integrate this Because you fundamentally have to do the same if you want to build this so on the left side You have a Bluetooth mesh stack that pretty much circumvents everything because that only actually needs to talk To your radio and actually put Your packets on the air and receive the packets from the air because it builds the packets In a specific format where the format is still the low level format of Bluetooth le But it doesn't really say that you have to go to the link layer You just have to format them correctly and there's a lot of extra timing involved this one So you don't repeat packets too often because the more you put the packet on the air the more power you consume the more Your power you consume on your receiver side But the interesting one that X they forgot to mention on this one I said we also have the legacy entry point we have a point-to-point connection So the Bluetooth mesh stack on the left side Fundamentally, you also have to put this on the middle side where you actually have a gut or connection oriented channel And stack this on top of this one for legacy purposes So it gets shrink-wrapped multiple ways But it's good for demonstration purposes that you pretty much have two things side by side Before I show you the topology slide we actually ended up with four different features You can call them roles, but they can also happen You can have multiple features on the same note So the roles don't really match because it's more like an all feature than an Exhaust so you have a low power feature if you actually build a mesh topology and one around a coin cell battery You need to consider the devices that really only have a coin cell battery And then say look I want to be only on air When I need to be because every time you have to be turn your receiver on you consume so much power that you actually can't Stay on your battery for long So you have this devices that really have a tiny battery and they're pretty much say I'm on now Someone needs to help me to get my data So that's what's called LPNs or low power nodes and they always have to talk to someone else They're pretty much edge nodes and then go as a look I'm setting up a friend of mine and I'm waiting for them to forward me the messages in case I'm offline and miss them And the friend is just the opposite role where they actually have to tell Always on power and they're happy to give other Low power nodes the packets and a friend can talk to multiple low power nodes But a low power node generally only have a single friend and then we have a mesh network So messages need to be read because we want to span the extra width of the network So if you want to cover whole building 10 meter range of a Bluetooth radio is not going to cut it So you need to have multiple of them and they have to relay the messages one to another one and go through this The proxy one is what I mentioned earlier for backwards compatibility If you on half a phone bridged into your network that is not mesh capable. It needs to do this over Get connections for Bluetooth and this is pretty much of the proxy does okay I'm along you and you can actually send the message and then I will lay everything back to you If you draw this up you get a pretty much easy topology feature of this one Where you have like fans ceiling fans light bulbs and switches, etc What is generally considered is that the light bulbs and ceiling fans are always powered so they can easily relay messages They can easily be friends and so on and so forth then you have Proxies like a phone that will talk to sorry of proxy Capable light bulbs and they can then know the phone can talk to them and then say oh I'm on a part of your network But you already see that the proxy is a little bit of an outside because it doesn't do anything else It talks to one specific friend and the friend that has to bridge everything So you can't have a different path into the network once you choose your proxy You're going through that proxy and don't say I'm just sending the message to everybody and hopefully someone's gonna Need to pick it up. So you have to find a dedicated proxy Friendship is pretty much the similar concept. You find a single friend and then you go through that one through the network But all the other notes the route from the switch on the right to the light bulb on the left There's no specific route it goes it can go to the top go through another switch It can go to a ceiling fan and so on and so forth So we really rely on that the messages are relayed through the whole network and everybody can see them And coming to this point the relaying in Bluetooth matches actually kept on purpose simple Because the more complex you make it and you have routing in there You actually need memory and that memory that you don't have and if you need a lot of memory You need to consume also more powers. It gets very tricky. So pretty much if you decided I'm Have enough power. I will relay messages Then you actually do and retransmit these messages as needed You can do maximum of 127 hops and generally that's a pretty large area if you consider you've arranged between 10 and 100 meters on a Bluetooth radio We do flooding so it's a flooding based mesh network.  So you don't have circular flooding So it doesn't get back to you and will stop eventually and you can manage that TTL On your network when you really realize that your main network is really small You can decrease the TTL and then it doesn't get flooded too far and there's an Implicit message cache that is mandatory that will avoid you actually taking messages up and stupidly repeating them So once you've seen it before you're actually not going to repeat it again And I have a little bit of a PDU diagram later on there. We just see how this is actually Possible to do these kind of things Security sorry security has to be in there. So we actually put the Security at all layers. So as a network layer security That is every packet is encrypted authenticated with the MIG a SCCM 120 and bit Fully encrypted that key is shared for all devices in the whole network. So you have one shared key for your network if you lose that key then Attackers can get in your network and see parts of the network But since the application and the models are actually protected with different keys The only thing they can see packets in the network if you have the network key you can pretend to be a relay So if you're Some sort of an attacker you the only thing you gain with the network keys that you can play in relay and your home owner might actually Thank you. Thanks for actually helping me out Sequence numbers are at all levels as well. So we actually avoid replay text You can't really replay a packet because the sequence number has to be always increased if you run out of sequence numbers There's a procedure to rotate the keys and then you rotate the keys There's a man on the middle attraction on actually setting up the network as well So you can't really get easily in there and say I'm just pretending to be inside Keys are rotated when needed. So if you have to take a device out I don't know much feeling with trash can attacks, but pretty much your light bulb breaks You throw it in a trash can it still has the key in there So people actually capable of extracting keys or broken hardware can actually take the key back and attack your network That's called called a trash can attack One is you actually take a device out we rotate the keys So even if they get the key out of the broken device they can't use it anymore because the network started using a new one and On general basis if there's something going on the keys actually are refreshed It's a procedure that is a little more complicated in a large network But it's the only way to protect against these things and it can happen really easily The access layer is the more interesting part because we actually as I said we separated network keys But we also have application key and device keys So if you have a lighting applications you have 10 lights and one switch They all share the same application key because they need to talk to each other But they're also device keys. They are pair-wise keys So the provisioner device that sets up your network can have a dedicated key with your device So they can reprogram it to do something else. So meaning even if you get an application key It doesn't mean you can actually compromise the Specific device the only thing you can actually do is oh my set of light bulbs I can attack and switch them on and off as I please But it doesn't mean that you can actually use your switch on your sprinkler outside or open the door Because you only got the key for the lights And you see where I'm going with this one The provisioning to actually bring as I said the network is always encrypted to bring the device into the network is protected with Asymmetric cryptography, so it's ECDH P256 which is standard in Bluetooth since 4.2 for secure connections So we use the same Basic cryptology to actually get the device on board it and as we know as today if you trust the NIST Then P256 curves are pretty safe and we don't have quantum computers This is as good as it gets It's only used for initial step, but it will generate a unique device key that is derived So it's not even some random number that you can get wrong It's really something that you have to get right and it's 100 bit strong key for a yes And then you get network keys distributed and application keys distributed as needed Obviously you will only install application keys into the device then you know them So if your light should only know what the application key for your lighting and your door should only know But the application key of your door if you install application key in every device then you actually are avoiding this or Breaking the separation that you actually would need So if we actually break this down how these packets looks like how they go over the year So as I said we have 29 octets. That's pretty tiny But we have a network identification at them at the top. It's an or not one octet or actually to be priced seven bit plus in IV index bit That will give you basic Identification on is this packet for my network or not. So you have a seven bit probability to actually figure out Do I need to decrypt this packet or not? It's good if you have your neighbor has three network set up You have three network set up so actually have some sort of chance that you don't try to decrypt a packet That is not for you because the only way to decide if the decryption was successful is if your network mick actually succeeds We have an obfuscator spit and encrypted bit So generally with the most part of the message you wanted to be encrypted We can't encrypt everything because if I don't know what the source is and the sequence number and the TTL I have no idea what I'm decrypting against because the TTL sequence number and source is actually used as nouns So you don't you have proper sequence counter for your encryption So they need to be in plaintext they need to part of your packet But we actually didn't want to put the source address into the packet because then everybody can learn the source addresses All in the network really easy So they are obfuscated with a single a s and a dedicated privacy key that really only you can know when you know the network key So they're not encrypted, but they're so hard to Guess that it becomes almost unlikely, but it's in theory possible hence only a full obfuscated and not encrypted and then your destination address is encrypted and actually your whole PDUs are completely encrypted and then you have a mick at the end of it that protects it and Then the destination as I said is encrypted the PDUs encrypted Then you will be cryptid and then you have your transport PDUs and you're going to all lay up as I said in your lower transport layer You actually have segmentation reassembly so then we do segmentation reassembly But at that point the payload has its separate encryption on top of this one So this is how it the packet fundamentally goes over there. So even if you see a mesh network You can't really know is this the same mesh network? What are the addresses in it? So it takes a lot of time to actually Crack any of this one Well, the lower level PDUs are really easy to get you don't even need any special hardware You can get an off-the-shelf Bluetooth dongle and start scanning for the network and you will see that there's some mesh network ongoing No dedicated sniffers needed Provisioning is a little more complicated since network is fully encrypted So we actually need to play a lot of extra steps to get a network on board it the basic ideas if a device is brand new out of the box it beacons with the identification I'm unprovisioned. Please go and provision me and then you either use Authenticate procedure It's somebody you have a code on the box or a barcode that you can scan and then you have out of band protection Actually get the whole device Securely on board it but the device you will send invitation you will exchange keys with public ecography You get your authentication and then you distribute all the information for that device inside the network This includes basic models basic configuration its address and so on and so forth and additionally application keys and so on Pretty straightforward procedure really complicated sorry not enough time to actually talk to this one if you're in cryptography That's really interesting because it's quite complicated But on a basic level it follows the same that we have done with Bluetooth 4.2 where we actually introduce secure connections and make sure that we actually use ecdh in p256 correctly and get this all working for Actually using the network we actually also had to go different ways Because the main focus is like home automation lighting doors etc We had to actually figure out a way how you address the devices because you don't really want to address a single device You want to dress a group if you stick a switch and your room has five six light bulbs You want to have them all go on at the same time But you don't want to repeat your message six times because that's just cost bandwidth and it's complicated So it's really a model publish and subscribe basic model says you actually have address assignments that allows you to actually address a single device and you give it the address and then The six lights actually take this as oh, this is all for me and then they've changed their state and switch on So pretty straightforward, but to actually make this work the whole design gets a lot more complicated when it comes to How we actually have the inner working so getting the mesh mesh network Working while cramming the everything in 29 octets is complicated But then also actually make your logic work is even more complicated So a note is pretty much a single device or whatever it does But a note can have multiple elements and this goes similar to what the services have been in Bluetooth classic You have a primary element and you have additional elements So in a simple case you have a light bulb that has a single element that is automatically the primary element And then you have the functionality in it So what you can do with a light bulb on off and you can maybe adjust the brightness if it's a little more pricey I want and then you have the conditions of these elements Okay, you can do on or off obviously and the brightness levels from one zero to ten and this described with your models And this is where it gets pretty much right into the next one. Oh model and states Okay, so everything is pretty much a models and the model defines the format as well and Then you have the state and like what state it is currently in what's happening So the states are I'm on off and what's my brightness? It's between zero and ten Not of much of this one is defined that you can do never really discover it because you don't actually have the capacity in that What do you say? Oh, what do you support? Or you support zero to ten the other ones bought zero to eleven then you actually make sense out of this So everything is a lot of statically fine to actually do Switching something on really quickly and you need to do this with lighting Otherwise you have this popcorn effect where one light if you have 20 light bulbs in your room And you press the switch and the first 10 go really quickly and the other 10 go 250 millisecond delay than the other one to me single like what's going on there They need to relatively go on at the same time. So you need to cram everything in a small PDU So you want a single message and everybody receives that the same time so they can react at the same time So you need to keep things small and the only way to do this if you statically define this So if you want to build a different light bulb that has Different brightness states or whatever and can do other fancy things You pretty much have to inherit the model and build a different model on top of this one So they can talk to you and their vendor models at wall if you want to do something that is not specced in the standard I'm more interestingly the models also have a client server model, but also control model So the server model is obviously what you expose and the definition on how it's exposed The client model is how you're going to use it pretty much what message you're going to send and what implication that message has So it means that octet you're going to send means I'm turning the light on and maybe also doing additionally something else That is possible More interesting is the definition of a control model where you actually have some behavior that is more complicated as an example You're questing the temperature the temperature changes that means it goes too high Then you actually have to turn your machinery off because it's dangerous or you can build scenes like this one you say I'm watching TV now that means my My blinds go down my lights are dimming my TV goes on and the VCR goes on or something like that So you can build something really complicated like that Obviously this gets even more complicated when you actually start building a look We have these models and this is an overview how you have multiple servers and it happens on different devices and a client talking to control model And the control more than talking to the server models This can be all designed and you need to be designed to be really efficient and really quickly over the air otherwise You're not going to make this fly in something that is Low bandwidth and has to reach a lot of devices even through relays in a appropriate time I mentioned addressing a couple of times before so It has multiple types of addresses that get really complicated So you have an unassigned address that is when the device is unconfigured you have a unique cast address But the unique cast address is not assigned to a node so device it's assigned to action element so every element in your Node can actually have a different address so you can address the element specifically virtual addresses you have then a set of Elements that then get a label and then you have group addresses where you can Define groups for publish and subscribe or you have these magically defined groups so you can oh I want to target all proxies So if you want to send the TTL definitely in all proxies you can send a single message and target more proxies to all friends Or relays or even send something to the whole network say look I'm changing The TTL TTL value from 7 to 8 you can send this to everybody and everybody just picks it up So you can do these things given that you have the right application key to do these things of course Addresses are generally 16 bit the virtual addresses are you ID labels that are hashed and they will give 128 bit label Obviously, there's some uncertainty there, but the general Same considering is that you actually have conflicts really solemnly and even if you have conflicts that don't really matter There are few limitations so these limitations gets really really funky So the number of elements in a network is 32k The number of group addresses is 16k pretty much easy, but then it gets virtual addresses You can actually have seven trillion of them so you can go Knock yourself out and based on the fact that we have a 128-bit network key that is a sole identification of your network You have three hundred forty any digital mesh networks. I can't even print that number I think it's only fit on the screen so you can have as many networks as you want. There's really no limitations You just create a new network key There's an application level limitation because we can't hand off many application keys to storage thing But 4k different applications that gets you already pretty far same as go for the subnets and then you can have 65 64k of scenes There's one interesting part if you stay away from the mesh network for 48 weeks You need to be really provisioned Because then you pretty much have no idea what your announces are anymore And you will never get back to this one if you come back earlier your nouns can be recovered after that one You kind of lost we also have some magic bits in there that The time that you can be off Without talking to the network and still get a valid packet without being having to get to a key refresh procedure announce update is 24 hours plus four so even with the sun rising and setting on different times you can be fully solar powered and get Still stay with that network So you get your power battery powered up on your solar and then the wake up get your messages and you go back down Um, so that's pretty much what you have there on the limitations. It's kind of funky limitations, but it gets you pretty far so projects that we actually have done this on so we focused on Zephyr OS, which is an abetted RTOS back by the Linux Foundation and we have an open source Bluetooth Low-energy controller source code in there We have an open source Bluetooth stack in there and we also have an open source Bluetooth mesh stack in there now that can be used in all possible roles It works best on Nordic small devices like the BBC micro bit So it's all available and you can just play with it and toy with it It supports advertising and guts you can build a proxy to talk with your talk with your phone to it Or you can use a native advertising mesh It supports the foundation models for basic configuration and setup and has a bunch of demos Where you can actually have devices and walk around you can provision 20 of them and then send message to the other etc Funny enough that stack has been also ported to minute and other embedded Operating system so it seems a lot of people make the effort and actually taking that stack building an operating system abstraction Zephyr doesn't have any kind of abstraction It's built really as similar to the Linux kernel all is natively integrated and they go through the effort in porting this over The only thing it doesn't really have at the moment is you can't provision it So if you built a measure Zephyr mesh node put it on a micro bit You can't do much with it because it's unprovisioned it stays unprovisioned For this one re-released so far what is called mesh control, which is a gut-based Provisioner on top of bluesy so you can just install its command application with a read line interface And then you can actually provision your nodes manage them send commands turn off lights and so on so if you find a commercial mesh Light bulb you can actually use that one to toy with it Native mesh for linux is coming. We are working on actually building a Optimized controller specification so you would have to use Zephyr as a Bluetooth controller And then you can actually talk to this one. I'm expecting this to be released in about a month or two So then we actually have also native mesh on linux and can use it The reason why it's actually not that easy is because we can't on a standard controller We can't get the timings good enough that you will actually have good operational process So we need to build a controller first that allows you to use it We will open up the extensions and make them available for everybody to use If you do turn the Bluetooth logo around and may turn it into M You have your Bluetooth mesh some people did this funny things. I actually found this yesterday and that was kind of interesting With this one I'm actually done. Thanks for your attention. Do we have any questions? Please The specification is public on bluetooth.com. It's a public specification. You can download it Yeah, so there's a packet cache based on the sequence number in there Yeah, right and then you you hash them and you will not forward them if you already forwarded it or seen it That's true But the assumption is that if you're really low power and concern about your power Then you operate as low power node and then you don't need the message caching because you will only talk to your friend And your friend will do the measures caching that has a little bit more power and a little more memory You have to unmute the microphone to make this fly Otherwise, I'm just gonna repeat it. Go ahead. Oh Yeah, so the announce is Specific to your note So you don't really need to store too much to actually do an efficient relay Rough estimate is you probably need depending on a TTL. You only need to care about a few So I think the rough estimates we did one initial implementation around 16 or something to keep you make it bigger you avoid that you actually have any attack vectors, but Worst comes to worse. You really that packet and someone else decides up. That's already in my cash So yes, that's obviously not a perfect system because they cost an almost amount of memory same as routing wisdom So it's a You pick your right value you think for your memory use cases value the interesting part is you don't want to actually Send you don't want to relay everything are all together So if someone just sends you something stupid or sends you a lot of message and overflows your message cast You will probably relay again So you build your device on how much how free or fast you can actually can send the packet over the air and how many You actually have to cash. So it's not a perfect system, but it actually helps a lot to Reduce the unwanted Relays into a national network. So you can build a dumb one and you will always be relaying which is not what we want You want to actually click look you already see this stop doing this again or someone else relate this the spec also has a little bit of Flexibility there. So if you want if you have enough memory and want to be smart You can actually be a better relay note that everybody else which is then we have to be a competitive So if you want to innovate on top of this one and make a better implementation that is matter That's great, but the basic standard needs to ensure that the network actually functions And this network we have been tested with thousands and thousands of notes It actually functions really well and really fast I I don't think we can talk about offline on the technical details But there's a lot more in there that I can actually spend in a 40-minute talk. Yes, please It's unreliable So Define what you mean with unreliable a message I've been Okay, try it without the microphone and then I repeat it Okay, so yes, so the message might not read. Sorry reach the Destination what you said. So yes, that's true. Generally if you send a message It might not reach your destination. So you have the choice between reliable and unreliable So if you don't really care, you just want to send this and whoever hears it should act You can do that or you actually have Reliability mechanism where then have to actually is send an act and there you there's a support for block hacking Messages you can do this well So you can if you have a unique cast one you can actually send reliable Message over the network, but then you need an acknowledgement mechanism that will send the acknowledgement back and you can build a reliable channel That's interesting for one-to-one communication through the network It doesn't really help you much if you have 20 light bulbs in your room and you want to switch them on Do you really care that the 20th doesn't make it? Yet the fact that you want is you want to get your light bulb and forth and yes You might it buck you might crazy Lee that the 20s one doesn't get on But then you can switch it off and turn it on again So there's something where you have where you happily accept the human error or the error in the system Compared to when you actually did fully reliable if you need it fully reliable You can do this but you need more bandwidth in the network So if you would do it unreliable you need less bandwidth and you can get it done faster So it's your choice, but it depends on the model the model defines and how things are done Okay, so if you're 20s light bulb So I agree if you are 20s light bulb never gets switched on because the network is built really really poorly I completely agree. That's absolutely annoying But maybe then you should rethink your network topology and think realize that you've a missing relay Yes, it can all happen and if you think that a lot of other network topologies are better in that regard Some of them are but they come at a really high cost in the high latency So as I said, it's depending on the model if you need reliable unreliable communication and what you're gonna accept So if you say oh, I need super high reliable light bulbs also build a model for this one that actually does that But the reality is the lighting model is defined as unreliable Okay, we're giving up on the microphone. So yes, please So the question is there's some sort of certification for this one. Yes, the blue to sick has a certification for this one So with every Bluetooth device you have to certify this The security let me put it this way There's no test for the security besides it actually works because the network is always encrypted If you can't get it right you will not talk to anybody ever which means that solves it by itself so If there's a weak device of the network that is built really stupidly So yes, you have a device that actually has the network key application key or device key And then it broadcast it out over ethernet to everybody to listen for more something Yes, that's a dumb device, but that's out of scope to actually Certify that's just a really bad device that should be shamed on and never be bought by anybody Tell me any system where that kind of security certification is present Let me let me answer this differently this is a network topology specification and Mendating what hardware to use would be out of scope. It would be this is not Apple This is a standards organization that says okay, you can you can do whatever chip you want once you want because it has to be vendor neutral If you like say I'm Apple homekit and I'm demanding you to use XYZ chip. That's a manufacturer choice And a manufacturer specification. This is an open specification. You can't do this and I've not seen any Open standard doing that one The other people are waiting Find me offline if you have a question. Thank you very much


Okay, cool. So I tell people all the time, man, and I don't know if I've already mentioned this to you, but you know, obviously I'm going to sound super bias, but I mean, it is what it is. Like I truly believe any small business owner, like I don't care what you're pushing, any type of small business owner, the two most important tools that we can have in 2020 and beyond is Facebook advertising and Cartra. Like, and if it's not Cartra, then it has to be some type of landing page software. But the reason why I'm so, you know, up on Cartra is just because of all the different features that we would have to pay separately. If it wasn't for Cartra, you know, like I'd have to, I'd have to pay for my landing pages separately. I'd have to pay for my email auto responder separately. Right. And then I'd have to pay for a calendar separately. And there's, there's, there's a few free ones out there, but you're, it's only free for so long. And then you got to upgrade it. So I just control and everything out of one software, man. So again, this software is the most important and knowing Facebook ads. And with that, you could take your business to the next level, but then you could provide this exact service to other businesses and they'll pay you a ton of money for it as well. And it's those two Cartra managing someone's landing page software and their email automation. That's what's going to justify your services. When you start pitching these business owners, because everyone's pitching on Facebook advertising, but not many are pitching them. I'm also going to manage your landing pages. I'm also going to manage your email list, which is your email automation. I'm going to make sure these leads are coming in. I'm going to make sure that these leads are getting, are getting, are being communicated with on the daily basis. Like that's my, my job and you run everything out of Cartra. So once you learn this software, it's like, you're going to be, you're going to be lethal, man, because businesses, that's the number one thing they need. They need to run some type of online ad and they need to manage that lead. So as that lead comes in for a restaurant, that lead needs to be getting emails every so often. And so that's going to justify again, your service, because you can do that for them. You can manage this email automation and you can manage their landing pages and run their ads. Like that alone, man, is a monthly package that any business owner would pay for. I don't care what they do. You know, you got, you got social media marketing and trying to post for people and trying to manage their Facebook page. No, you don't need to do none of that for them. Like it's all about Facebook ad and a landing page. That's it, man. So that's why I always tell people, try to learn this as much as you can. You got me. You're always, after our call right here, you're always going to have me. So you can always reach out to me. We'll always jump on and I'll always help you with Cartra and I ain't ever going to charge you again for any of this stuff. It's only these initial five calls. But even without me, like we got these Tuesday and Thursday calls that you should be jumping on. Like if you can, like if you can make them live, then jump on them live. They're at 4pm Eastern time Tuesday and Thursdays. But if you can't make it live, then just try to watch the replay because that investment of that one hour watching the replay, that's an investment in your business.  And then also the Facebook group, there's like 21,000 people in the cartra Facebook group. So it's like, if you're ever stuck on anything, and you can't reach me, like post a question in the Facebook group, and man, you have like 50 people reply, you know? So, so the Yeah, right. Yeah, it is. And I was going.    This call but but also check my emails because I have you. I have you on one of my list. I have you in one of my sequences, right? Like I have you because you're right, you signed up with my affiliate link. So now I have a handful of affiliates that are on a specific email list that are going to be receiving automated emails from me. And so my whole intention with that is to teach you different parts of culture without over over complicating it. So and that's what's what I'm going to show you here. And also I was also researching just a sidebar was also written with that that the pixel helper. Yeah, I was just going to some of the difference, you know, just a little, you know, because it's obviously bookmark and I will just go to some of the sites that, you know, I normally see and some of the biggest sites and then it popped up. I was like, Oh my God, these people have a pixel. And they're like, Oh, like, yeah, like, Oh, okay. And then and then you're right now. Now you see it. But then on the flip side, now you'll start tripping out on how you'll start seeing different sites. And you would think they're all that. But then you check and they ain't even got a pixel on it. So right, that's what I call a lot of people as well. Like a lot of people when I'm talking to business owners, you know, I'll be on on on on screen share will be, you know, visually looking at everything like this. And I'll say, Okay, cool. Give me your website. I'll go to their website. And there ain't no pixel on it. And I'm like, No, wonder why you ain't doing it.    You know, so, so let's let's break this down. Heck, yeah, heck, that's the most important thing. Even even when even if you're not running Facebook ads, this is what you could tell any business owner, even if you're not running Facebook ads, your pixel still should be on your website. Like if you have any online presence whatsoever, your pixel should still be on that website. Because even even though you're not running ads, Facebook, the pixel is on the page. So Facebook is still segmenting. And Facebook is still categorizing all these visitors. So if you if you so I would tell a business owner, I would say, Hey, man, if you would simply set up a few custom audiences, you'll start being able to create this bucket, you'll start filling up this bucket of people who are visiting your website. So whenever you do plan on running Facebook ads, you can target all those visitors and show them your next ad.  Yeah, that's why that's what I was telling them. Yes. That window shoppers. Yep, yep, you could call them out like that. And that's why a lot of times when people think when people have a website, they think that traffic is getting there. It's like, that's that's the that's the biggest myth online. The fact that you have a website and you think people are visiting it. That's the biggest myth. That's the biggest myth, especially all these restaurants or any, any barbershop or any spa, like people think because they have a website, they think people are actually visiting it. It's like, dude, that's that's that couldn't be better than the truth.   And yeah, you got some website, but it's whatever. It's like, dude, no one's finding it. Like unless you're running ads, no one's finding it. You know, and so that that's that's where you're going to bring value man, because you're going to be able to run ads to that website, you're going to be able to capture a lead, you're going to be able to manage that lead, you're going to make sure that that leads getting future emails. That would that's what I would do for you man, I would provide Facebook advertising, landing page and email automation services. And I would charge businesses, starting at 1000 a month minimum, that's minimum you can easily get 1500 but I would start at 1000 until you start getting good. And then and then after you get a few clients, then bump it up to 1500 a month. And then go after maybe a higher level type of business where they can afford to pay you 2000 a month.  You know, Well, can I ask how yourself based on how many how many clients do you have like that in my model? No more like that's not my model. That's the beginner model. Like it like when you're just starting out, you're going to go get clients. Like that's that's like the beginner model where I'm at now I've been doing this for four years. So where I'm at now is I'm actually in Cartra. I'm in the membership section right there to the left my memberships. And now what I'm doing now, my memberships, what I'm doing now is I'm taking all my knowledge, I'm putting it in a membership course, and I'm selling that. So so my knowledge, what's my knowledge? My knowledge is Facebook advertising, landing pages, email automation, how to set up the damn thing. And then and then different aspects of social media marketing. So I have my niche. I know exactly the service that that gets them happy. I know exactly what they need. And now I'm able to record videos and sell them that. Right. So my niche of real estate agents, I would bring on monthly retaining clients for four years. But now to the point where it's like, no, I don't want to charge you monthly. I want to teach you how to do this yourself. And so what I'm doing with you to keep it 100, what I'm doing with you with B money, what I'm doing with you is I'm literally solidifying my course. I'm doing these live coaching calls to really see what the market needs and what the market is missing. I'm solidifying my my my offer. And now what I'm going to do after I'm done with you is I'm going to straight go back to the drawing board. And I'm going to record these videos, not with anyone on it, just me, where I'm doing a tutorial. Right. Here's step one, guys, your Facebook pixel.  Here's step three, freaking set up the custom audiences, custom convert. That's where I'm at now is recording all the videos and then running Facebook ads to get people to watch my presentation on me pitching it to them. Right. And then they buy and then they buy what's that? You have me as it definitely working to have me send my savings. So then that's a live coaching call. But as I as I solidify it and put it all into a membership course inside a cartridge, I'm already I'm already 99% done like I have 55 videos that I have packaged up in a membership course in cartridge that I'm going to be selling at 1500 a piece. And so where I'm at now in my career is I want to be selling five six seven per day at 1500 each. And it's a coaching course right teaching people from A to Z how to run these Facebook ads but not with me doing it with them. It's them doing it with my video. And I'll maybe have a couple coaching calls per week. But but nothing like one on one like you and I, you know, right? That's where I'm at. That's where I'm at next where I want to do that. So rather than taking on monthly clients and doing it for them, I just want to teach people to do it themselves. You know, but but even these coaching calls, even these coaching calls, that's why I'm not going to be doing these coaching calls forever, because these one on one coaching calls. This shit's time consuming too. So I can't possibly talk to 10 people a day like how am I I'm exhausted after talking to just you. You know what I mean?  That's why I'm going to replace myself with simple videos and call that my membership course and sell that. Yeah, you know, but that's why that's why after after you get good at getting some clients here, here's where you would step up in memberships and creating a course. What I would do if are you here's what I be here's how I'd be thinking. But again, everyone's different.  But but but if you're thinking anywhere within these lines of digital marketing and helping businesses and learning Facebook ads and all this stuff like if that's your if that's your vibe and that's what you're trying to fill right now and trying to try to get good at what I would do if are you is I would go and get these restaurants let's just say for example, you know, you go at restaurants or whatever any any any anyone anyone let's just say restaurants. What I would do is I would go after these restaurants I'd go get five six seven of them. And I'd get really good at running Facebook ads and managing their landing pages and email automation. So you're mastering Karcher and you're mastering Facebook ads. And with restaurants again it's a simple ad you can capture a shitload of leads by running some simple ads for them. But here's my point. I would get really good at that I'd go get five six seven clients and maybe run with maybe and I'm talking monthly clients where they're paying a thousand a month right 1500 a month. I'd go get a few of those clients and I'd probably rock with them for six to 12 months after you get really good at that. Now Bryson has knowledge. Now what you can do is you can go and create some video courses inside my memberships in Karcher. You go set up 15 videos teaching a brand new entrepreneur how to go get restaurants and charge them what you were charging them. So now you mastered your craft. Now you could turn around and teach me how you did that. But you're going to teach me in video form.  And the going rate for courses like that or anywhere from 500 to two grand. Just for your knowledge. And that's why right now with your with your songwriting you have knowledge. That's where I was trying to get out on our last phone call trying to dig deep into finding out OK is that your profession or that just something that's where I was headed with that because you got knowledge. If I could package up that knowledge in the form of videos put it in my memberships and sell that rather than selling a click bank offer I'd make more money. Right. You know if I was teaching people how to write teaching people how to song write teaching people how to go get clients or teaching people how whatever the hell you do back up and say damn can I teach someone how to do what I do and can I do it on video and can I do a tutorial and can I do a screen share where I'm teaching people all my secrets and I'm teaching them exactly what I do. That's when you really take your business to the next level because you can only have so many monthly clients. You can only coach so many people one on one like I'm doing with you in order to replace yourself. It needs to be digital and it needs to be automated. Just like a song when you write a song. If you wrote a song for Dre or for Dre for Drake. If you wrote it if you wrote a song for anyone. If you wrote a song for outcast. If you wrote a song for Freak and Jermaine DePri. If you wrote a song you got that publishing. That's residual income because that song's gonna play forever. Same with digital courses. You have video. These videos can be purchased forever. Right. So so that's just how you replace yourself man and those and those videos can be purchased while you're sleeping. Those videos can be purchased without you talking to a single soul. You know. Right. So that's just something I'm a plant in your mind right now. That's that's long term. But but mastering the craft is first and then you and then if I were you man I'd go I go start teaching. I'd go start teaching young entrepreneurs how to go after restaurants and get them to pay you a thousand to two thousand a month. Any beginner young entrepreneur would love that knowledge. That is game. And again you could sell that. What's that. I said but that ultimately like is that's you know I definitely see my saw myself doing that I just want to get like once I get good and get the income that's coming in. I'm like OK now I know how to because right now we're like when I first when I first talk about it. So I load so much information on them. They're kind of like you know so I just need to get it down to a point to where I can make a quick ladder pitch. Yeah. So that's why I'm just I'm excited about you know getting all this. Yes. We'll get there. We'll get there for sure. So let's click on. Let's click on my pages. Let's just get up. Do you have any pages up already because I know you did on the old account. But do you have any pages up over here. And do you even know how to add the pixel. Yeah. That's going to be in the setting in the. Hold on. Let me see if I can. And then also what we'll start. Go ahead. Go ahead. No go for it. What I was planning on doing what I was trying to do with this page. Yes. I think it's an setting. Isn't it. Yes. The tracking code. Yeah. And then it's down here with Facebook. I just copy the pixel and put it in that when that opens. Yes. Down here. So what this is basically what I was trying to do is I was going to run and I thought about your absence. And as I was going through it. And of course I was looking at some of your other videos. So what this is what I was going to do through like three different campaigns. I was going to do one to schedule a call. You know to get and get the calendar and get and run the ad campaign that way. And then I was going to do a survey one where another page where people can do a survey to get me there. You know the prospect to call. And then I was going to run another ad. Just for like the normal page or maybe like a video sales call. And I was going to hire a sale of a spokesperson with a script and then you know somebody that representative and then I was going to put that on the page. And I was going to try to run those three offer the carter landing pages to see how that would generate just so I can get different data to figure out which one will be the best one. Should I do it where I'm running an ad to schedule a free strategy call or should I do it with you know it's the quiz the quiz is working better or is the normal ad to help out small restaurants you know get it you know that's what I was just kind of kind of work that out. OK OK I'm glad you brought up all that. Yeah OK. I hear what you're saying. Here here could be here's what what could be super just just easier and cheaper. If you just ran if you ran this but maybe not a strategy call maybe if you if you ran it to download download your download my free cheat sheet showing you the top seven mistakes restaurants make when trying to market on social media. So now you're giving away some type of cheat sheet. Now you're giving away some type of PDF. It's not aggressive because an ad going out to a cold market a person who doesn't know you just yet for them to say oh I want to talk to that guy. It's like they don't even know you yet. Especially especially if you're running an ad for the first time. Right. Ain't no one getting on the call with you right now. No one even knows us. Right. So so this strategy call approach it doesn't this strategy call approach isn't effective unless you're running a ton of ads. If you're running a ton of ads that means that we're flexing our pixel. We're creating custom audiences of people who are landing here and watching our video ads preferably video ads. But that's a whole another can of worms. I don't even know if you're comfortable putting out video yet we'll get there later. But if you're putting out video and people are watching your video then you're creating Facebook custom audiences around people who are watching it. And because you're putting out Facebook video ads every week that pixel and those custom audiences are getting a shitload of data. So now we're retargeting we're retargeting we keep getting in front of people that are watching your videos we keep getting in people that we keep retargeting people who are landing on your page because we're creating audiences of people landing here. And now these people keep seeing you when that happens then it's good to go for a strategy call because now these people keep seeing you they've been seeing you for the past two months because you keep targeting them and you keep retargeting them because they're watching your videos and you know what the hell you're doing on the Facebook ad site. But if we just plan on running one ad and especially if we're running an ad and it's not even a picture of us or if it's not even a video of us and that's only one ad is if we think people are going to schedule a call for that hell no we're we got something else coming like that ain't going to happen. But but when you can run an ad and give away something of value for free and yes a strategy call yes it's free yes that is value of course but there's more physical lifting for that individual to be like damn I want to talk to this person when that's not going to happen right now like it's not going to happen right now but if but if we approached it where we approached it in a very non-aggressive and a very nonchalant type of way where it's like hey click here to download a free PDF this PDF is going to give you the top 10 tips that restaurants are doing today to capture leads on social media or it could be the opposite click here to download the top seven mistakes that that restaurants make when trying to build a business on social media like that's now something enticing and it's very non-aggressive because I don't need to get on the phone with you I don't even talk to you I just could I just could put my email and download the damn PDF right now right like that's something fast right something instant and that's that that that that that would get you a ton of leads and now now now all these people are downloading your PDF and now you're hitting them on the back end or you're hitting it not not or and you're hitting them on the thank you page so you're hitting them on the thank you page and you're hitting them on the back end and here's what I mean by hitting them I come here from an ad click here to download your free PDF and I put my name and email I click submit then I go to the thank you page on that thank you page it has to be you it has to be a video of right if it ain't going to be a video it could be an image but I highly recommend a video because it's simple you got a good look bro like you look good you look professional you got you got all that going on so why not throw out a video of you here's what that video should consist of and that could be a short 60 second video but but there's four things and I'm recording the calls and don't worry about trying to remember it but the four things are when I click submit I go to your thank you page it's you on video give me four bullet points bullet point number one is thanking you thanking them thank you so much you guys thank you for downloading your top seven tips on restaurants social media marketing blah blah blah number one I'm thanking them and I'm thanking them with high gratitude I'm saying thank you thank you thank you I'm saying it like five times thank you thank you thank you thank you for downloading my 2020 top seven tips on what restaurants are doing to capture more leads on social media than ever before thank you thank you thank you that's number one and the number two I'm introducing myself my name is Bryson I am a digital marketing expert my passion is in helping rule is helping restaurants capture more leads and build a huge brand on social media I've been in the Atlanta area for the past 15 years this is my home this is why I've been doing business forever and my whole passion is helping our local community blah blah blah number two is introducing yourself and why you're so fired up about what you're doing and the number three is telling them to check their email hey check your email I just sent over your top seven tips you're going to want to open that up and read it right away these are the seven mistakes that restaurants make when trying to build a business on social media I put my blood sweat and tears into this PDF download it now I just email it to you that's number three I email it to you and also by the way make sure you check your emails over the next few days because I have a ton of tips that I'm going to be sending you via email that are going to help you take your restaurant to the next level on social media so don't miss any emails I send I'm going to be sending them periodically over the next couple weeks don't miss them that's number three so check your email I just email to the PDF but also check your email over the next couple of weeks because I got I got a shitload of content coming your way that's number three and then number four the last one you're going to have a button so right below that video there'd be a button to go to your calendar so the fourth thing and I'm saying all this in 60 seconds the fourth thing would be and by the way if you'd like to schedule a free strategy call where I give you all my tips and strategies on how restaurants are thriving on social media today click the button below it'll take you straight to my calendar where you can schedule your best time can't wait to talk to you and by the way I hope you enjoy reading that book as much as I enjoy writing for you check your emails because I got a bunch of content coming your way I'll talk to you soon so the fourth bullet point was to click the button and schedule a call so now as I gave them something of value up front now I'm asking for the call after that so the back end I'm either going to get you to schedule a call on the thank you page or I'm going to get you to schedule a call on the on the on the 10 emails that I got coming your way and in those 10 emails I'm going to be talking about the PDF in the 10 emails I'm going to be I'm going to be I'm going to be referencing the PDF and in the 10 emails there's two objectives objective number one is to continue to educate you on that PDF and give you a little bullet points in my 10 emails objective number one I'm trying to nurture you I'm trying to get you to freaking remember who the hell I am I'm trying to I'm trying to I'm trying to build a relationship that's objective number one with these emails I'm educating you on what was in that PDF I'm staying top of mind because I'm going to keep emailing you every other day for the next freaking 20 days I got 10 emails lined up that's objective number one objective number two is in each email there's a link to my calendar and hey Jason by the way if you'd like to jump on a call where I give you all my tips and tricks click the link below it'll take you straight to my calendar where you can schedule your best time can't wait to talk to you and don't forget to check email number nine tomorrow I got a ton of great information coming your way talk to you soon so in each email each email is written to educate them on that PDF continue to nurture that lead and then and then the second objective is to get them to schedule a damn call so now I'm I'm it was the same objective right it was the same objective which is which was to get them a strat was to get was to get a strategy call but I'm just doing it differently I'm giving them something up front for free of value and I'm trying to get that call on the back end right yeah that's not OK so yeah I think I because so I can just and I think I was looking at one of the other videos you were saying you know just go to Fiverr and tell them about the topic that you want yes man yes seven and yeah it's harder than to do that you could spend with my love like 15 bucks man you go to Fiverr you look for a ghost writer and and and 15 no more than 20 bucks no more than 20 bucks you reach out to somebody from a different from on Fiverr obviously they're all from different countries and they're all amazing and they're all amazing but you find one with a high rating you find you find one with multiple reviews anywhere from 50 plus reviews 20 bucks and you give that person a topic and they'll freaking write you a few pages on that topic you get that back you get that word document back from them and then you add some images you add your own little flavor you add your two cents you take you take the three pages that they wrote and you turn that into seven pages with what you can add to it and also with images so now you got this seven page you have to give out for free that's your bait right so so now your entire online presence evolves around giving away this PDF no one comes into Bryson's world unless they download my PDF and then now for I'm going to be sending out this lead magnet to to and when I'm doing my ad sense it's going to be specifically when I'm doing my interest it's going to be for a restaurant so it's not business owners or yep okay you want to you want to niche you want to niche down so it's not small business owners it's more like if you're a restaurant owner if you run a restaurant if you're a freaking you know if you're in the Atlanta area and are building or you know growing a restaurant so we're niching in not small business because that's a million small businesses we're niching in so down the restaurants right yeah so if it's restaurants then that small business two words that turns into one word and that's restaurants you know very specific very specific and that's why when you reach out to a ghost writer that's the specifics I need you to write me based on this topic around restaurants you know maybe advantages that restaurants have when marketing on social media or reach out to a ghost writer and say hey can you write me a few pages on mistakes that restaurant owners make when trying to market on social media right I would do both either either one right because both of those are enticing both of those are enticing if I want to learn the top seven tips that that that that restaurants are doing to succeed on social media or if I want to know the top seven mistakes that restaurants make when trying to market on social media like both of those are enticing you know what I mean yeah especially if you're looking to get more busy what's that especially if they're they're they're looking to get more business you know they're struggling right now oh yeah it's a lot of the restaurants are yes oh of course and they all know they need an online presence they all know that they need to be on social media but I'm here to tell you right now 99.99999% of them don't know what they're doing and that's a fact that's not my opinion right fact so so if I was a restaurant owner and I was struggling and all of a sudden I'm seeing an ad download this PDF to find out what the mistakes are or to find out how you can grow even faster on social media download now it's a free PDF it's like shit I'm all over it you know right but but again your strategy is to get them on the phone so I'm gonna either do it on the thank you page or I'm gonna do it via email automation right that's that's what I would be doing with this I'm gonna waste a lot of money oh yeah for sure I'm glad we cleared that up


So, welcome everyone. I'm very excited to be here. It was interesting, about a year and a half ago in San Francisco at the Design Summit, networking was discussed as a line, a straight line between two VMs. We suddenly come a very long way from there with substantial use cases and innovations in networking. And to talk about some of that, we would have the experts from both Rackspace and Brocade Viada here. So, I'm Sandeep Singh Kohli. I'm part of the product marketing team at Brocade. Sameer Satyam, do you want to please introduce yourself? Yeah, my name is Sameer Satyam. I'm the Product Manager for Public Cloud Networking at Rackspace. And I am responsible for onboarding or introducing network services for our public cloud customers. Hi, my name is Shashi Sastry. I'm the Technical Marketing Engineer for Viada. My role at Viada spans from product development, performance testing, and also to validate customer solutions, especially in the cloud service provider environment. Excellent. Thank you so much for taking the time. Glad to have you here. Really quickly, most of you know about Brocade's market leadership in San. A few of you might not know about our leadership in the IP world. So, just hit a couple of points really quickly. Brocade was the first to introduce Ethernet fabrics into the market. With our VCS plug-in, we provided the first fabric level orchestration. With the network function virtualization, our Brocade Viada V-Router has, with market penetration, it's leading in market penetration, if you consider the number of downloads it has had so far. So, a lot of exciting stuff happening at Brocade, both from the SAN perspective and data center IP perspective. At our booth, we are showcasing OpenStack integration with all of these solutions, FabriChannel SAN, Ethernet fabrics, Load Balancer, and Virtual Router. So, please stop by to get a little demo on all of these. So, Samir, why don't you give the audience a background about cloud networking and what Rackspace is doing in that respect? Sure. So, our network services portfolio is basically listed here. We started with what we call as cloud networks last year in September or October. Currently, we have basic layer 2 to layer 3 services, which includes private networking between virtual machines, what we call as isolated networks. We also have attaching network capabilities, broadcast and multicast capabilities on private networks, and we have the firewall and VPN router capabilities now with the Brocade Viada V-Router. We are still running NOVA network, actually, with a quantum or what used to be called quantum, and we are transitioning to Neutron early part of next year, and we are going to offer security groups functions as well as we are looking at floating IP and various layer 4 through layer 7 services as part of the public cloud. But this is what we have right now. So, you were talking about some of the technologies, but how are these offered, and when you're talking about these offerings, can you also touch upon the topic to your network function virtualization? Sure, yeah. I think you mentioned network functions virtualization. That's a standard term being used for most of the layer 4 through layer 7 services nowadays. So, there's several ways we can think of when it comes to offering layer 4 through layer 7 services. And when we say hybrid cloud, at track space, we have a dedicated or managed hosting offering as well as well as cloud. So, when customers consume these services, layer 4 through layer 7 services or all network services, either in the dedicated space, they'll have a dedicated firewall or a load balancer or any of those physical appliances. That's one way that they would like to consume these services. On the cloud side, there's a couple of ways to do it. They could be a service virtual machine, which is customers want to create a VM network appliance just like a server, they would want to spin up a network appliance virtual machine and be able to log into that virtual machine and make all the changes for the networking. The other way to consume the services as a service natively in OpenStack, we have VPN as a service, firewall as a service, all of those being pushed through the OpenStack community right now. And that's another way of consuming layer 4 through layer 7 services. Customers do not need to be logging into the network appliance, they just want to use API or the user interface in order to get these services. And the last way I think is basically, I mean, network functions virtualization, which is the term that's being used right now. It is also going in the path of distributed services, like which are offered on from, which can be done on the hypervisor itself or at various distributed points in the network. That's the difference. Absolutely. So why don't we back up a little and give a very high level view of what were the use cases that customers were coming up to you with and what was the business problem that you were trying to solve for them? So you just saw all the services that we offer. We have private network connectivity between virtual machines and for some, for let's say there's a web application deployment with various web servers, database servers. If we want to protect these web servers or if the database servers and the app servers need to connect to the internet but want to be secure and not expose their interfaces to the public, that's one of the use cases that we were trying to solve. The other one is, we have different regions in rack space. We just launched our Hong Kong data center this week, I think. Yeah, we are all wondering whether it's Monday, Tuesday or Saturday today. So customers would like to be able to, I guess, connect multiple data centers in rack space or even dedicated, I mean, different regions from customer data centers to the cloud. So that's the other thing that customers are looking for, either for disaster recovery purposes or just to span their applications. Disaster recovery is more of a common use case or just for connectivity between virtual machines across regions. The other one which is not mentioned here is routing between private networks. So let's say there's an app application which needs to be on multiple networks. Some servers are on network A, the other one is on network B and they want connectivity between those. That's another use case. And the last one is remote access or client VPN services. Basically the secure traffic between sites can also be routed and so that's the variant that you touched upon, right? Yeah, absolutely. Sashi, was this, were these use cases common with other service providers that you were talking to and did you have to look at it from a different angle for rack space? Tell us a little bit about how you went about. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, for Viara, this is for our current generation of product, this is a perfect use case as a tenant router in the cloud service provider environment where we can, it's a different model. We're spinning off Viara providing those layer three services per tenant. So let me just give you a brief introduction of what Viara is for people in the audience that don't know. It's essentially a software form factor. It's a router that provides routing, BGP OSPF, IPsec VPN, remote access VPN and NAT firewall capabilities. So it's essentially all these services in one software form factor. So with, we've seen what the use cases are, what the requirements are from a rack space perspective, right? They were trying to provide segregation, security for applications, for their customer applications. They needed this functionality per tenant, per customer and this could be generalized over other use cases per department within one large enterprise. So you can see that Viara here is acting as a gateway router. With NAT you hide the applications behind Viara and you expose the public interface of Viara to the internet and apply firewall policies to protect the applications behind or expose the applications as you wish to external traffic. That is one use case and that's generally the similar use case across other service providers that we work with. The second use case here in the picture that you see is trying to connect two sites. Here in the rack space use case there are two regions that we're trying to connect up two regions of the same customer maybe. They want to secure the traffic between those two sites but if you really think about it this can be extended to other larger use cases meaning you have connectivity between your branch office or your headquarters and your rack space environment or it could be between a rack space and AWS where we also provide the same kind of functionality. So this is a true hybrid cloud kind of connectivity here. The third one of course is kind of an extension. We are providing secure access to the applications using SSL VPN. So all of these can be with or without dynamic routing. But we can actually do dynamic routing and we can do that over the VPN tunnel. So it's very flexible to provide that connectivity at the same time securing the traffic. And this again is a common general use case and that's why we fit quite nicely to provide those functionality. So Sashi you were talking about how some of these use cases are pretty common with other service providers. So what is the value proposition? What is the differentiation of rack space where other service providers are having similar use cases and they're resolving that through routing and virtual solutions. What is that you do different and how is your offerings working for the customers? Yeah, so I talked about the various ways in which these services can be offered and here we're talking about offering layer 4 through layer 7 services on a virtual machine that's created. So customer needs to spin up a network appliance as a server. We recently launched performance flavors which is basically our next generation if you will of cloud flavor offerings. What this basically does is that Viata can be provisioned on these performance flavors and it gives us gives bandwidth flexibility for customers to choose from. So if they choose like a one gig performance class they can get 200 megabits per second bandwidth and they can go all the way to 1.6 gigabits per second with different flavor sizes that we offer in our cloud today. And all of these are as you can see the monthly basis there that starts from 160 dollars. But the real value as I said is that the bandwidth can scale up pretty quickly at very little cost and a lot of our customers who want high bandwidth capabilities and they can use they can pick and choose from these flavors and at not much cost relative to other cloud hosting providers. So performance flavors along with you know Viata's different use cases that's kind of what we saw here. Okay, excellent. So shifting gears and talking a little more about technology and the solution. I was discussing this with Yahoo Japan on Tuesday as well that OpenStack is soon becoming a collaboration platform where vendors and customers are changing their relationship from just you know transactional to true partnership. So this question is really for both of you how do you come together and coming up with the solution and maybe add some more details on the technology and the work that you know both the teams did. Sure, so from technical perspective basically we use Nova network right now and as I said we're transitioning to Neutron but from the the technical work requirements perspective we had a brocade Viata develop a Nova agent so that they can boot their system in our cloud. This Nova agent used file injection API from Nova which is I think right now being duplicated for config drive and cloud in it but since brocade was one of the earliest to do software defined networking virtual machines we went with doing a Nova agent with file injection capabilities and this is required because it need like if the VM needs to come up in our cloud they need to read the IP addressing information on all that is provided and come up with the right IP addressing information the right interfaces the right order of VMs so that's basically developing the agent with was the main portion of the integration work that happened and on our hypervisors. Sashi you wanted to add? Yeah sure it is indeed a different paradigm especially because it's no longer the requirements coming from the customer and the vendor trying to fulfill those requirements in in in a certain order and you know getting that out in a release out in a certain time frame it's more about a partnership as Sandeep mentioned so we had to have you can't just write a product requirements document and say okay this is what I need to build we had to have an engineer work very close in the rack space environment to do the actual development and this is not new for Viara we've done that a couple of times and we continue to do that because each environment is is unique each of these cloud service providers have a different deployment model their their hypervisors are made for that environment are built for that environment so we had to work very close in in lockstep order with them to fulfill these requirements just a little bit on what we had to do for Viara is that when Viara boots up now this is probably a little bit different from the application VMs we are the Viara router is it is a router so we need to have an IP IP address as as we come up or you know we boot completely also the few configuration parameters that we need before or during the bootstrap is actually turn on DHCP service on the interface have some SSH keys push some SSH keys so once the Viara boots up completely the administrator can go in and configure other services such as firewall VPN and so on and the third thing is to just have a default user so these are basic parameters that we need to push to Viara as it's booting up and that's what Sameer was referring to so we we just had to tweak that a bit in order for that to happen and that's specifically in in their environment so once Viara boots up then we can SSH to it or we can use REST API or any other a couple of other ways to to be able to push the actual layer three services configuration on to Viara. Excellent one thing that I forgot to add on when you ask for differentiation is I mean in other clouds when you offer the brocade or any other network appliances they're supported not supported by the cloud hosting provider but go to the vendors to support it in rack space this is actually part of our standard support of fanatical support right so yeah just add to add a plug for that exactly absolutely why don't I take this opportunity to open the flow for questions anyone in the audience have a question to us our panelists here so while you're thinking about some questions let me put a yes please do you want to repeat the question first for the yeah I'll repeat the question I think you're saying upgrading from no one network to brocade is a big change and why did we do this over corn trail and other solutions basically let me clarify one thing our networking is this is what we have right now is we are showing how we are offering a service to customers for routing VPN firewall these capabilities our network is still based on its public knowledge that we are networking is based on VMware's or NYSERA's controller so that's not changing this is this is just a service that we are offering as a VM inside that environment it's not so I mean can you also touch upon you know market places and how you so essentially this is networking service that's provided to the end tenant and so you want to add it's not like our networking is based on viata this is a VM in the network appliance offering inside our cloud so as eventually what we want to do is there's a lot more layer 4 through layer 7 services than just routing VPN and firewall so if you're familiar with aws marketplace there's a lot of network appliances that are part of that so rack space is looking at doing a marketplace in which there's not not only uh you know routing VPN firewall these kind of functions but there's several functions like web application firewall, TDoS prevention, van optimization there's so many other functions that need to be part of these layer 4 through layer 7 services so eventually we'll get there but you know this is just one of the offerings in all the list of offerings that I mentioned so routing VPN firewall, WAF, DDoS, van optimization and so I think maybe a misunderstanding what was your question about upgrading the open stack version and what it does to viata which maybe you should answer that's that's fine I think is that what was that your question because it's two independent things yeah it was just a matter of timing we've been we've been around forever go ahead and say what she's okay I gave him the answer yeah I think this is an I think your fundamental assumption is that we are our network is based on brocade which is not the right yeah what you're assuming is wrong yeah our network is the technology that we use in our network is SDN based off of VMware's NICERO offering I saw I saw another question from from here somewhere yeah I mean we obviously we are looking repeat the questions yeah if you could that would be helpful okay the question is are we are you looking at SR, IOV, DPDK and so on these other advanced technologies going forward in our public cloud so I'm not sure how many people are familiar with SR IOV and all that but I can quickly when you talk about a software defined networking currently the majority of the ways the providers how it's implemented when SDN with the help of a controller is you have open virtual switch on the hypervisor and the controller basically establishes a session with the hypervisor and OVS or the virtual switches where all the flows or the traffic forwarding decisions get pushed down from the controller there are other ways in which you know in order to increase the performance or improve the latency of the network you can architect the network in different ways so SR IOV is one such way in which you know the hypervisor OVS on the hypervisor is not actually doing the forwarding decisions but rather it's basically every tenant is handing off specific vlan and all the decisions might be made at the top of racks which and there we can do a vxlan handoff from there to the network so that's that's where I mean that's something that we are constantly evaluating we have a huge network and you know we have we have various cells in our network variously to domain so definitely we look at look at all of those technologies but we have a huge incumbent network with existing provide SDN provider that we have to keep in mind and Sashi did you also wanted to talk about what are some of the future enhancements with brokered viata v router and how sure what direction it's going at yeah so as I mentioned our current product is the viata subscription edition and it's a tenant the use case is mainly as a tenant router as a in a cloud service provider environment but what we are working on is a router the next generation product it's again called a virtual router there's a little bit of a lack of imagination there but it's purely for network functions virtualization and when I say network functions virtualization that can mean many things to again just like SDN many things to many people but for the viata in the viata sense it's purely for the service provider space where high performance high scale is key and so we'll be focusing on basing the VR on Intel dpdk architecture and some of the technology that we've talked about sri ov where we are bypassing the nick excuse me the virtual switch and connecting the viata interface directly to the physical nick but again some of the use cases here are pretty narrow it'll be purely routing routing with scale for example a bgp router reflector use case so this is essentially what we are working on any questions from this side of the room okay let's let's move back to the middle the gentleman in the back please can you speak a little louder so we do repeat the i can repeat how do you deal with the how do we deal with failures of the router i would like to say that viata has been around for quite a lot of time a lot of users about over a million downloads of the software so we are very very stable but we do support ha vrrp and we can have active standby configuration although again this is a unique environment service provider the cloud service provider environment depending on what they support for example in aws we it's a little bit more convoluted to run a vrrp so we have to do have to provide some other mechanisms based on that that environment and in rack space we can do vrrp i believe because they do support it depends on whether they support multicast for example for the keeper lives even though that's not a limitation we can do certain things like maybe do a gre tunnel but the just to briefly say that the environment defines how we provide the high availability so i mean did you want to add a little more color to it so viata does support brocade viata vrouter supports vrrp but from neutron we need this function called shared ip or virtual ip which can basically transfer between virtual machines we are going to get that to functionality early part of next year so once we get that and with the help of vrrp is just a data plane failover one we currently it's not supported in rack space club so we have a customer in a cloud service provider in japan ns solutions and they have a similar tenant use case and they use vrrp in their environment to provide high availability okay the gentleman in the white t-shirt please so the question is really the question is can do we plan to use vpn as a service and firewall as a service from from newton perspective right so yes we do plan to do that and our next way of services that we plan to offer includes floating ip security groups layer 4 through layer 7 services we need to run an l3 agent which is the l3 networking agent extension right so that's where we are figuring out the architecture currently where where to run that agent and what model we are going to use for those layers 4 through layer 7 services but yeah definitely our intent is to provide those services natively in using the open stack api yeah so so we um we we used to support it we repeat the question sorry does uh we are a support we are used to support cluster ha do we still support it uh we have moved away from that uh because it's a little bit more complicated and there were some issues with it so today we do active standby ha i know the audience has a lot of questions i want to get to one question real quick which is very intriguing you went through all these use cases right which particular use case is is most common and something that you really want to talk about a little more yeah the side to side vpn for connecting between regions or from a customer data center to rack space that's one of the most commonly deployed use case that we're seeing from customers for example there was a customer who has who's running a mongo db cluster and he's sharding from like his local data center um into rack space uh cloud across the side to side vpn uh and because it's also i guess secure that's a very good use case that i mean side to side vpn is the most common use case followed by i would say then is the second most common is the firewall use case that's uh which provides network based firewall services and can secure the web application okay excellent um please repeat the question i i think that's so we can repeat the question is how do we guarantee the throughput i mean the word guarantee when you use it in cloud that's like a very dangerous term i don't think any customer actually guarantees like but we have certain slas that we try to meet and uh when you guarantee the relative term slas if you go back to the uh how do we guarantee it yeah we have built capacity in our clouds with the right amount of um oversubscription built in and we've modeled and we have a here i mean our design of top of rack aggregation core it considers how many vms are part of the uh can be on each hypervisor and then we build uh bottoms up based on that and also historically we have a view of how many um customers are sending what amount of bandwidth so using bottoms up approach as well as you know data from what we have learned um we do uh guarantee well not guarantee but we we offer this is uh uh like different flavors can do different amounts of bandwidth right slas right so um sashi um some other conversations that you're having with um you know rack space and others um service variety customers what are the sla discussions uh you're seeing yeah so uh the the whole performance throughput conversation is a little bit different uh especially in the virtual environment uh we um if if it was a proprietary appliance um i come from that word if it world if it's a hardware appliance we know exactly what we've built uh we can characterize that very easily and provide all these uh nice numbers on a data sheet but when we go into this virtual uh environment and especially a cloud service environment it's a much more difficult task um because uh we are running on uh an x86 server uh which may or may not have hypervisors uh there are driver dependencies um so i mean we can do what we do inside viara is we characterize on certain platforms on a server on certain nicks uh with certain drivers uh tuned to the highest performance uh and then we give that as a baseline in the lab in under ideal conditions um and then we guide customers uh as to you know what the throughput and um maybe in their environment on their servers you know and and so on so there's there's uh there's actually a lot that has to happen in that conversation right um any any other questions that that come to your mind um any any final thoughts sashi and samir that you wanted to share go rack space fanatical support so i would uh encourage you to be available uh on marketplace in aws and of course uh in rack space so please go give us a try and don't go to aws i knew i would get in trouble exactly exactly uh thank you so much samir for you know taking this time and and sharing uh uh your thoughts and and likewise uh sashi for doing that thanks thanks for being here first