From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. Hi, I'm Peter Burris and welcome again to another CUBE Conversation from our studios here in beautiful Palo Alto, California. With every CUBE Conversation, we want to bring smart people together and talk about something that's relevant and pertinent to the industry. Now today we're going to be talking about the emergence of new classes of cloud provider who may not be the absolute biggest but nonetheless are crucial in the overall ecosystem of how they're going to define new classes of cloud services to an expanding array of enterprise customers that need that. And to have that conversation and some of the solutions that that class of cloud service provider is going to require, we've got Joel Diedrich with us today. Joel is the Vice President and General Manager of Network Storage Software at Toshiba Memory America. Joel, welcome to the CUBE. Thanks very much. So let's start by, who are you? My name's Joel Diedrich. I'm managing a new group at Toshiba Memory America involved in building software that will help our customers create a cloud infrastructure that's much more like those of the the Googles and Amazons of the world but without the enormous teams that are required if you're building it all yourself. Now Toshiba is normally associated with a lot of hardware. The software angle is, how does software play into this? Well, you know, flash is changing rapidly, more rapidly than maybe the average guy on the street realizes and one way to think about this is inside an SSD there's a processor that's not too far short of the average Xeon in compute power and it's busy. So there's a lot more work going on in there than you might think. We're really bringing that up a level and doing that same sort of management across groups of SSDs to provide a network storage service that's simple to use and simple to understand but under the hood we're pedaling pretty fast just as we are today in the SSD. So the problem that I articulated up front was the idea that we're going to see as we get greater specialization in enterprise needs from cloud, there's going to be greater numbers of different classes of cloud service provider whether that be SaaS or whether that be by location by different security requirements or whatever else it might be. What is the specific issue that this emerging class of cloud service provider faces as they try to deliver really high quality services to these new more specialized end users? Well, let me first kind of define terms. I mean, cloud service provider can mean many things. In addition to someone who sells infrastructure as a service or platform as a service we can also think about companies that deliver a service to consumers through their phone and have a data center backing that because of the special requirements of those applications. So we're serving that panoply of customers. They face a couple of issues that are result of the trajectory of flash and of storage of late and one of those is that we as flash manufacturers have a bit of an innovator's dilemma. That's a term we use here in the value that I think most people know. Our products are too good. They're too big, they're too fast, too expensive to be a good match to a single compute node. And so you want to share them. And so the game here is can we find a way to share this really performant million IOP dragon across multiple computers without losing that performance? So that's sort of step one is how do we share this precious resource? Behind that is an even bigger one that takes a little longer to explain and that is how do we optimize the use of all the resources in the data center in the same way that the Googles and Amazons do by moving work around between machines in a very fluid and very rapid way. To do that, you have to have the storage visible from everywhere and you have to be able to run any instance anywhere. That's a tall order and we don't solve the whole problem but we're a necessary step. And the step we provide is we'll take the storage out of the individual compute nodes and serve it back to you over your network but we won't lose the performance that you're used to having it locally attached. Okay, so let's talk about the technical elements required to do this. Describe from the SSD from the flash node up. I presume it's NVMe. So NVMe, I'm not sure if all of our listeners today really know how big a deal that is. You know, there have been two block storage command sets of fundamental commands that you give to a block storage device in my professional lifetime. SCSI was invented in 1986, back when high performance storage was too hard drives attached to your ribbon cable in your PC and it's lasted up until now and it's still, if you go to a random data center and take a random storage wire, it's going to be transporting the SCSI command set. NVMe came out in 2012, so 25 years later, the first new, genuinely new command set and there's an alphabet soup of transports, you know, the interfaces and formats that you can use to transport SCSI around would fill pages and we sort of tune them out and we should, we're now embarking on that same journey again except with a command set that's ideal for flash and we've sort of given up on or left behind the need to be backward compatible with hard disks and we've said let's build a command set in an interface that's optimum for this new medium and then let's transport that around. So NVMe over fabrics is the first transport for the NVMe command set and so what we're doing is building software that will allow you to take a conventional x86 compute node with a lot of NVMe drives and wrap our software around it and present it out to your compute infrastructure and make it look like locally attached SSDs at the same performance as locally attached SSDs which is the big trick but now you get to share them optimally and we do a lot of other optimal things inside the box but they ultimately don't matter to customers what customers see is I get to have the exact size and performance of flash that I need at every node for exactly the time I need it. So I'm a CTO at one of these emerging cloud companies that I know I'm not going to be adding a million machines a year. Maybe I'm going to be adding 10,000, maybe I'm going to be adding 50,000, 100,000. So I can't afford the engineering staff required to build my own soup to nuts set of software. Can't roll it all yourself. Okay, so how does this fit into that? This is the assembly kit for the lowest layer of that. We take the problem of turning raw SSDs into a block storage service and solve it for you. We have a very sharp line there. We're not trying to be a filer or we're not trying to be EMC here. It's a very simple but fast and rugged storage service box.  So there's a fair amount of customization still involved but we stand ready to do that. I mean, that's the, you can take or toy this together together yourself. Yeah, it's a sheba does, yes. So that's the problem we're solving is we're enabling the optimum use of flash and maybe more subtly but more importantly in the end, we're allowing you to disaggregate it so that you no longer have storage pinned to a compute node and that enables a lot of other things that we've talked about in the past. That's a big feature of the cloud operating model is the idea that any application can address any resource and any resource can address any application and you don't end up with dramatic or significant barriers in the infrastructure is how you provision those instances and operate those instances. Absolutely, I mean, the example that we see all the time in the service providers that are providing some service through your phone is they all have a time of day rush or a Christmas rush, you know, some sort of peaks to their workloads and how do they handle the peaks? How do they handle the demand peaks? Well today, they buy enough compute hardware to handle the peak and the rest of the year it sits idle. I mean, and this can be 300% pretty easily and you can imagine the traffic to a shopping site Black Friday versus the rest of the year. If the customer gets frustrated and goes away they don't come back and so you have data centers worth the machines doing nothing and then over on the other side of the house you have the machine learning crew who can use infinite compute resource but they don't have a time demand, it just runs 24 seven and they can't get enough machines and they're arguing for more budget and yet we've got hundreds of thousands of machines doing nothing. I mean, that's a pretty big piece of bait right there and in the order. We're just to say that the ML guys can't use the retail guys or retail resources and the retail resources can't use the ML and what we're trying to do is make it easier for both sides to be able to utilize the resources that are available on both sides. Exactly so, exactly so and that requires more than one of the things that requires is any given instances storage can't be pinned to some compute node otherwise you can't move that instance. It has to be visible from anywhere and there's some other things that need to work in order to move instances around your data center under load but this is a key one and it's a tough one and it's one that to solve it without ruining performance is the hard part. I mean, we've had network storage isn't a neat thing, that's been going on a long time. Network storage at the performance of a locally mounted NVMe drive is a tough trick and that's the new thing here. But it's also a toolkit so that what appears to be a locally mounted NVMe drive even though it may be remote can also be oriented into other classes of services. So how does this, for example, I'm thinking of Kubernetes clusters stateless still having storage that's really fast, really high performance, very reliable, very secure. How do you foresee this technology supporting and even catalyzing changes to that Kubernetes that Docker classes contain a workloads? So for one, we implement the interface to Kubernetes and Kubernetes is a rapidly moving target. I mean it's, I love their approach. They have a very fast version clock, every month or two there's a new version and their support attitude is, if you're not within the last version or two, don't call. You keep up, this is and that's sort of not the way the storage world has worked. So our commitment is to connect to that and make that connection stay put as you follow a moving target. But then where this is really going is the need for really rapid provisioning. In other words, it's not the model of the IT guy sitting at a keyboard attaching a disk to a stack of machines that's running some application and coming back in six months to see if it's still okay. As we move from containerized services to serverless kind of ideas in the serverless world, the average lifespan of an application is 20 seconds.  Millions of times a minute and so you need to be light of foot to do that and so we're putting a lot of energy behind the scenes into making software that can handle that sort of a dynamic environment. So how does this resource that allows you to present a distant NVMe drive as mounting it locally? How does that catalyze other classes of workloads or how does that catalyze new classes of workloads? You mentioned ML. Are there other workloads that you see on the horizon that will turn into services from this new class of cloud provider? Well, I think one big one is the serverless notion and to just digress on that a little bit. Now, when we went from the classic enterprise, the assignment of work to machines lasts for the life of the machine, right? That group of machines belongs to engineering, those are accounting machines and so on and no IT guy in his right mind would think of running engineering code on the accounting machine or whatever. In the cloud, we don't have a permanent assignment there anymore, you ran a machine for a while and then you get it back. But the user is still responsible for figuring out how many machines or VMs he needs, how much storage he needs and doing the calculation and provisioning all that. In the serverless world, the user gives up all of that and says, here's the set of calculations I want to do, trigger it when this happens and you Mr. Cloud provider figure out, does this need to be sharded out 500 ways or 200 ways to meet my performance requirements and as soon as these are done, turn them back off again on a time scale of 10 seconds. And so what we're enabling is further movement in the direction of taking the responsibility for provisioning and scaling out of the user's hands and making it automatic. And so we let users focus on what they want to do, not how to get it done. So this really is not an efficiency play when you come right down to it. This really is changing the operating model so new classes of work can be performed, so that the overall computer infrastructure, the overall infrastructure becomes more effective and matches to the business needs better. You know, it's really both. I mean, there's a tremendous efficiency gain as we talked about with the ML versus the marketplace, but there's also things you just can't do without an infrastructure that works this way. And so, you know, there's an aspect of efficiency and there's an aspect of man, this is just something that we have to do to get to the next level of the cloud. Excellent. So do you anticipate that this portends some changes to Toshiba's relationship with, you know, different classes of suppliers? I really don't. We are, Toshiba Memory Corporation is a major supplier of both Flash and SSDs to basically every class of storage customer. And that's not going to change. They are our best friends and we're, you know, we're not out to compete with them. We're serving really an unmet need right now. We're serving a relatively small group of customers who are build, who are cloud first, cloud always. They want to operate in the sort of cloud style, but they really can't, as you said earlier, they can't invent it all soup to nuts with their own engineering. They need some pieces to come from outside and we're just trying to fill that gap. That's the goal here. Got it. Joel Diedrich, Vice President and General Manager Network Storage Software, Toshiba Memory America. Thanks very much for being on theCUBE. My pleasure, thanks. And once again, this is Peter Burris and this has been another CUBE Conversation. Until next time.


Greetings and welcome to the Introduction to Astronomy. In this lecture we are going to talk about phases of the moon and tides, which are caused by the moon and sun. So let's go ahead and get started. So let's go ahead and start with the phases and what causes the phases to occur. Well, the moon is a solid object which is illuminated and shines by sunlight. So like any solid object, half of it will always be illuminated. So half of the moon is always illuminated by the sun. However, also half of the moon is visible from Earth. So if we look here, half of the moon is facing Earth, half is facing away, we can see this portion. So we can see the portion facing toward Earth. So depending on the combination of those two, we will see more or less of the moon illuminated as we look at it. So sometimes in the crescent section, we'll be seeing less than half of the side illuminated. And in the gibbous section over here, we'll be seeing more. So because we can see half the moon illuminated and half the moon is visible from Earth, we will see different phases as the moon moves around Earth. We have what we call the waxing phases, which are on the upper section here. In that part, the moon will be getting more and more illuminated each day. On the bottom, we see the waning phases where less and less of the moon would be visible each day. Now, let's also look at the timing for this. The cycle of phases is 29 and a half days. Now we mentioned that previously when we talked about our month, where does our month come from being approximately 30 days? Well, it is because the moon's cycle of phases is very close to 30 days. However, the actual revolution period of the moon is a little bit less than that. The sidereal month relative to the stars is 27.3 days. Now, why is there a difference? Well, the moon is moving around Earth and Earth and moon are moving around the sun over the course of that month. So over one month, the Earth and moon system moves about one-twelfth of the way around. So it takes a couple extra days for everything to line up again relative to the sun. We saw a similar thing with the day where we had that the solar day was four minutes longer than the sidereal day. Now, the phases that we see, the names of them, we will have the new phase when the moon is not visible. We see nothing because the illuminated portion is pointing away from us. Then we will see a crescent phase up to a quarter phase where half of the visible surface is illuminated. Gibbous phase is more than half. Full phase is fully illuminated. And then we begin through the other section of phases, the waning where we'll see gibbous, quarter, crescent, and back to new again, and the cycle starts all over. So the cycle will then repeat itself. Now, why, again, why these phases? Let's take a look at this a little bit closer, and let's look at these phases over the course of a month here. You watch the animation, and we will see that the moon starts illumination on the right-hand side, coast to full, and then de-illuminates toward the left-hand side. So during the first half of the phases, the right side is illuminated. During the second half, the left side is illuminated. And here we're watching the moon from 2005 over one complete cycle of phases. So how will we know what phase is visible at any given time? Well, it depends on the position of the sun and moon, and when we see the new moon, they are in the same direction. So here is Earth. If we look toward the sun, it will be in that same direction. And we are seeing the side that is unilluminated by the sun, so the moon would be completely dark. So we would not be able to see that at all. In the crescent phase, it will always be close to the sun. So here we're looking out this direction or this direction for crescent phase, and we would be seeing only that portion that faces Earth. The tiny portion is illuminated. And those will always be close to the sun in the sky, so you will see the crescent phase shortly after sunset or shortly before sunrise. By the time you get to the quarter phase, you're now halfway around. So the quarter phase, first quarter here and third quarter here. In first quarter, it's the right-hand side of the moon that would appear illuminated. In third quarter, it's the left-hand side that would appear illuminated. Gibbous phases are more than halfway around, and again you would see more than half of the illuminated portion of the sun. So the portion pointing toward Earth, we see larger chunks of the moon illuminated and up to the full phase where the entire surface and that is always opposite to the sun in the sky. So the full moon will rise right as the sun sets and then set as the sun rises. So what phase we can see depends on the time of day. So the waxing phases will be visible in the evening sky, the waning phases will be in the morning sky, and the full moon will be the one that rises right as the sun sets. So what phase you're seeing, if you see a quarter phase moon and for whatever reason don't know what time it is, you can figure out by which side is illuminated and if it's the right side that would be first quarter and the left side would be third quarter. So you'll note that for waning phases it's always the left side illuminated, for waxing phases it's always the right hand side that is illuminated. Now, we talked a little bit about the rotational period of the moon, let's look at that again here. The rotation and revolution of the moon are exactly the same. What do we mean? How long it takes to spin on its axis and revolution is how long it takes to spin around the earth one time. That means that one side of the moon always faces the earth which is what we call a synchronous rotation and that's what we see here. It means that the moon is rotating so if the moon were not rotating we would always keep one side facing in the same direction and here we would see one side of the moon and here we would see the other side of the moon that side would be constantly facing in the same direction. However, when it rotates and revolves at the same rate, one feature on the moon pointing toward earth is always pointing toward earth and what that means is there's half of the moon that we always see and it's always the same half no matter when you look at the moon and then the other half is never seen. So let's look a little bit at an animation here to look at the rotation of the moon let's look at our moon and we start with the side we're used to seeing and then we'll see the other side what we call the far side of the moon. It's not really a dark side sometimes it's dark, sometimes it's light it just depends on the specific timing of the month but each side of the moon will get the same amount of sunlight over the course of a month. Now this other side was not visible until 1959 when the Luna 3 spacecraft flew around the moon and was able to get our first images and we see that it's quite different when we look at our side of the moon the near side facing earth we see lots of dark patches when we look at the other side of the moon we don't see that the far side of the moon is very light colored and doesn't have a lot of the dark maria that we're used to seeing when we look at the near side differences between that and we'll look at that a little bit more when we get to our section on the moon now what else does the moon do well the moon actually causes tides as well and they are caused by the moon and the sun and it is caused by a differential gravitational force essentially what that means is that the moon is pulling more on the near side of the moon than it is on the far side of earth than it is on the far side of earth so we're getting a stronger pull here than we are here and that means that we will get a distortion it's trying to tug the earth and it will try to deform the earth well rock doesn't deform very well so but water does flow this is why we get the tides the moon is trying to deform earth all together and stretch it out the solid rock doesn't deform very well and the moon doesn't have a very strong gravity so it ends up with the water being that which can flow and again this is because of the gravitational force remember that that depended on the distance so the near side is closer and that means it has a stronger force pulling on it and the far side with a greater distance will have less of a force pulling on it now we can look at this another way let's take a look here and what we see is that we're going to watch this animation it's going to show two different types of tides so we see that the sun also produces tides a tidal force but they're about half the strength of the lunar tides so they're not near as strong so what we have is during new and full moon we get spring tides and that's what we see when we get on the left and the right sides of this image so at that point we will see that the tides add together the solar and lunar tides add together giving us a much stronger tide a much higher high tide and a much lower low tide than we would otherwise see at first and third quarter moon the forces work against each other the moon is pulling tides in one direction the sun in the other and we get lower tides the stronger tides at new and full moon are called the spring tides and the weaker tides at first and third quarter moon would be called the neep tides so let's go ahead and finish up with our summary and what we found this time is we looked at the phases of the moon and that they depend on the positioning in the sky of the sun and the moon specific phases are visible at specific times of day and tides we looked at the tides caused by the differential pool of the moon and sun on earth and the water moves more or less depending on that excess force so we will get high tides and low tides at different times depending on how those two are working together so that concludes this lecture on phases of the moon and tides we'll be back again next time so until then have a great day everyone and I will see you in class


NASA are not the only ones in the USA trying to send spacecraft into space. There are plenty of unknown engineering brilliant minds attempting to, and failing, to make something break the walls of the atmosphere. Well, at least there were in my neighborhood several years ago. It was a quiet small place with a low population, but almost half the people in it were amazing at engineering, especially things that had to do with spacecraft and rockets and all that. I had no idea what had drawn all these geniuses to this small town, and why they all wanted to launch their little test spaceships up into the sky in a specific part of town, the small park, but when it happened, almost all the people that lived there went to watch. It all was failed. Everyone kept hush about this whole little space program we had going on here, so the government wouldn't investigate and find where we had gotten the parts from or something. In late 2007, a group of four geniuses had gotten together to build something that would actually work, and had a little twist to go along with it. I didn't know what that twist was, but they spread the rumor of it to keep people interested. The four people were only the brightest minds in town, and the rest of the engineers were said to be too unstable to work on something as big as this. Though the engineers quit their high paying jobs, received some parts, I'm sure in a totally legal way, and went to work. They had gotten away and built the thing for over a year, but in January 2009, when everyone had forgotten about the whole thing, they finally appeared, carrying a box the size of a small cow, covered in a black sheet. The scientists looked and cleaned, unshaved, very skinny and as pale as the snow on the ground. They looked like they hadn't slept or eaten in days. I saw something else, a look of fear in their eyes, like they were nervous about something. I figured it was just fretting over if their year-long project would fail, and it would all go to waste. As they brought it to the town park, as was where all the spacecraft was launched, all of them took off the black sheet to reveal what looked like a random jumble of metal pieces, along with a round black orb on top of it, and tons of skinny landing legs. I wasn't so sure of this thing taking off, let alone landing wherever they wanted it to land. Someone in the large crowd asked what the black orb on top was. The presumed leader of the engineers replied, in a quite raspy whisper, as if he lost his voice or just hadn't talked in a long time, microphone. He didn't look at the one who asked the question, just off into the distance, like he was plodding the path the spacecraft would take. With a monitoring device in his hand, he launched. Only one cheered, but the scientists just looked up into the sky with tears in their red eyes, before looking at the device for what seemed like 20 minutes. Then one of them said, in the same raspy whisper, that the craft had broke the atmosphere and gone into outer space. None of them smiled. The crowd cheered yet again, even louder and longer this time, as their small town had finally achieved something great. During this celebration, I was wondering why the engineers were so sad, angry, even spiteful. Maybe they were really tired or grown to hate their device after working on it for over a year. Either way, I was convinced they were even smarter and better than the people at NASA now. Just for people in a year building such a small, yet functional spacecraft? This was truly amazing. This wasn't included in the news or published anywhere, it was just a small town thing. I thought maybe the satellites could detect the small ship, but it was far too small and probably would have been thought of as just space debris. In 2011, the spacecraft had come back to our town, landing almost exactly where it took off, in the park. Everyone's amazement had come back in full force, as three of the engineers went over to it. The fourth one had gotten his job back and had to work today, happy and healthy again after taking a break for over two years, to collect the data. They inspected the ship, looked to see what had broken, etc. Considering the thing landed on Mars and came back, it was in great shape. But when the scientists went over to the microphone and its data, they got the pale-ness and scared look in their eyes again. No one wanted to be the one to take out the audio recorded in it and listen to it. No maybe we should wait for him to get back. One of them said, referring to the engineer at work. To speak of the devil, ten seconds later he came driving down in his car to check it out. Again, the engineer saw the microphone and instantly had a look of panic. It was time. It was about two weeks before the audio was revealed, and it was just over three minutes long. Only one of the engineers went to talk about what they had heard, and how they had cropped the original four hour long recording. What he said horrified me. The first scientist, the self-proclaimed leader of the group, had plugged his ears and screamed only about eight seconds into the playing. He was crying and seemed to be hallucinating when he had heard it and screamed for it to stop. When it did, he left the building they were all in, and had been missing and not picking up his phone for the last two weeks. Two of the other ones had lost all bodily control when the fourth engineer skipped halfway into the recording, involuntarily urinating, defecating, having seizures. One lost the ability to breathe properly and had subsequently died, while the other is still alive but has been sent to a mental asylum, and has lost the ability to communicate. By this point, many in the crowd were crying and were scared due to the speakers next to him, ready to play the three-minute cropped recording. Many had ran out of the crowd and to their home to plug their ears and hide. The scientist bumbled hearts under his breath. Then someone in the crowd asked the question we were all thinking. But how were you affected by it? The engineer smirked, clearly feeling perfectly fine, even happy despite the death, disappearance, and insanity of his peers. I would have expected him to be pale and scared, but he was confident and was grinning the entire time. It calmed me. I feel purer now, ready to do anything. In fact, the part one cropped is my favorite. The part at the end that makes me feel the best. People have very mixed reactions to it. Here, why don't I just turn on these speakers and... I didn't let him finish. I ran to the front of the crowd, where he was talking, grabbed the speakers and audio player he had the disc in. I ran. I ran. I ran. I ran. Without thinking, without going to my house, just running straight. I wasn't going to let this absolute maniac get to me. I ended up midway in the local woods, crying and screaming, not able to keep quiet. I took the CD out of the audio player and stamped and kicked the rest to destroy it. I put the disc in my pocket and sneaked to my house. I am here, almost four years later, listening to the disc that I had completely forgotten about.   It just filled me with dread and made me feel paranoid and like I was being watched while listening to it. Now that I listen to it again, it fills me with the same effect, getting worse the more I focus on the sounds of Mars. But if I'm distracted, it's not that bad. I cannot let anyone listen to this, though. There is way too much risk for horrible things to happen. I don't know why these things happen due to listening, but I don't want to find out. The maniacal engineer was apparently killed by being trampled by the large crowd. Now the neighborhood has no engineers, much less astronomical engineers. Sure the average income is down and we don't get to watch spacecraft take off every month, but at least things like this won't happen anytime soon.


This tenth year of Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to all of you, including Paul Boyer, Brad, Kevin, and our new patrons, Tyson and Dylan. Welcome into the club! On this episode of DTNS, Microsoft gets ever closer to acquiring Activision Blizzard, but can they pull it off? Plus, people are starting to complain that chat GPT isn't as good as it used to be. Well, that was fast. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, July 17th, 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. From lovely Cleveland, Ohio, I'm Rich Strafilino. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. Oh, folks, we're going to keep you up to date on all the best tech news that will help you understand the world, starting with the quick hits. Tesla announced its first production Cybertruck model has come off the assembly line at its Texas factory. Tesla expects to start mass production by the end of 2023. In completely related news, Ford announced price cuts for its F-150 Lightning electric truck, the cheapest pro trim down almost $10,000. It now starts at $49,995. And the cuts extend up to its highest platinum tier, which is down around $6,000 to $91,995. This comes as car dealers report three times the number of EVs on their lots compared to last year, according to a report from Cox Automotive. On July 4th, the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that meta unlawfully collected data for personalized ads without consent. So based on that ruling from earlier this month, Norway's data protection authority ordered meta to temporarily pause displaying ads personalized with online activity or location to Norwegian users. It's the first data protection authority in the EU to do so. This pause will last for three months as of August 4th. Meta can still personalize ads, but it can only be based on the about profile section. The ban would be lifted earlier if meta can demonstrate a way to legally process personal data and give users an option to opt out of targeted advertising. The agency also requested a binding decision from the European Data Protection Board on final measures regarding this ruling. They're begging for somebody to make some rules based on this ruling on here. Just give us rules, man. Talk and they will hear you. Twitter Chairman Elon Musk posted on Saturday that was July 15th. We're still negative cash flow due to a approximately 50% drop in advertising revenue plus heavy debt load. Since Twitter is a private company, it largely does not have to disclose its financials. As machine models gain more acceptance, independent evaluations of them will be critical. Industry consortium ML Commons just announced something called Medperf to benchmark medical AI for buyers. We talked about these kind of systems kind of starting to be tested on the show before and now we're getting some benchmarks for them. At launch this will be limited to mostly models that help evaluate radiology scans. A similar announcement comes from the nonprofit Common Sense which publishes ratings on privacy and suitability of media for children. Common Sense is adding AI products to its ratings and review system so you can see if Claude or ChatGPT are suitable for your kids and you can find out more at commonsensemedia.org. Xbox Live Gold Members will be converted to a new subscription called Xbox Game Pass Core. That will be the least expensive of the Game Pass options and that will start on September 14th. Cost is staying the same so if you're paying $9.99 for example in the U.S. you'll still pay $9.99. It just has a new name. And Games with Gold which is the part of the service of Xbox Live Gold that gave you games for download at no additional cost will be replaced by a small catalog of around 25 games that will be available as part of your Game Pass Core subscription update that list every couple of months or so. Online console multiplayer will remain as part of this new Xbox Game Pass Core which is a little odd because it's not available on the more expensive Game Pass console plan only on the Game Pass Ultimate plan. But that's not the weirdest thing that happened to Microsoft today. Well it didn't happen. They did it. It's not the weirdest thing Microsoft did today. Well this happened to them. Anyway Microsoft deal to acquire Activision Blizzard made its biggest step forward over the weekend. Sony agreed to a deal to keep Call of Duty available for PlayStation for 10 years after any acquisition of Activision Blizzard by Microsoft happens. Rich, stand and applaud. They finally did it. So I have to put on my white flag. Hold on. Yay, yay. This is similar to deals Microsoft has signed with other platforms. They signed an almost word for word version with Nintendo just about Call of Duty. They've also signed more wide ranging deals with other companies like Nvidia. There were some leaked emails that came out. Not like I guess they weren't leaked. They were part of a court case that indicated that Sony was considering a wider ranging deal. But this is not that. This is just about Call of Duty. And the agreement I think also signals that Sony has finally stopped actively trying to block this deal. If they're willing to sign an agreement with Call of Duty because that was their biggest stick in trying to get courts to block the deal from happening. Now that is not the last hurdle for Microsoft. They also still need approval from the UK. The two sides have passed or have paused legal actions and are in talks to determine a restructured deal that would address the competition and markets authorities concerns. Scuttlebud is it has something to do with selling off some cloud rights so they don't have a concentration of cloud rights, at least in the UK. The CMA has extended its deadline for its overall investigation from July 18 to August 29. And they have gotten the approval of the competition appeal tribunal which hears appeals on CMA decisions to do that. However, Microsoft has a deadline of July 18. That's tomorrow as we are recording the show in order to close the deal without having to pay a breakup fee. There are some ways that if both sides think the deal can close if they just have a few more days they can avoid having to pay that breakup fee to make the deal happen. But investors really don't like to do that because it weakens the strength of the breakup fees and they want to keep to those deadlines if they can. Rich, lay your odds on this closing on Tuesday. I'm going to give it four to one. Now hear me out. I think it's very possible that, as you were saying, Tom, that Microsoft has some legal and business machinations in their quivers that they can get this to avoid that breakup fee. What is remarkable about this entire process is essentially Microsoft just seeming like they're out maneuvering everyone out here being so ahead of all of the competition concerns outside of the UK. And even then it sounds like they're smartly like willing to concede on some of the cloud issues that the CMA kind of brought up here. But looking at how they dealt with Sony, looking at throwing call of duty at Nintendo, which is something that literally no one asked for, and coming out with these 10-year deals, understanding the optics, the morass of legality that they were getting into, I have no doubt that Microsoft can figure out how to avoid that breakup fee because investors like them some free money. But I don't see it like, if we're going to say this is the date in the Wikipedia entry of when this closes, it will not be Tuesday officially. We'll have like a little weird note and it says citation needed or something. Yeah, I agree with you. I think there's a 97% chance this closes at this point. I know the FTC could still, let's say it closes before the FTC case at the beginning of August, I think it's August 2nd. The FTC could still pursue legislation or pursue the court case to try to unwind it, but that's a tall order, especially given how strongly the decision against the preliminary injunction was crafted. So the FTC might go ahead with it. I don't think they win. It looks like the CMA really does want to come to an agreement, but it's going to take longer than the 18th. They are not going to get a decision from the Appeal Tribunal today and have it done tomorrow or they would have had it done a long time ago. There's still a lot of back and forth to be done. I don't know how long they need. I know they've been given until the 29th of August and I guess the CMA might want to play this out as long as possible, but Microsoft's going to want this to be done before the 2nd when the US FTC goes. So they're motivated to come to an agreement before then. I think by the end of July, this is probably done. Yeah, like in the books done, completed. What's interesting here is it seems like now we have reached the point where most parties have been like, okay, as structured, this deal can go through, but there are these variety of procedural hurdles. The CMA, officially because these remedies were not part of their final part, has to open a new investigation if Microsoft is making new concessions before it could consider that kind of stuff. It's like on its face, okay, we want to accept these, but because this is the way these types of investigations are structured, and for good reason, we have to jump through a little bit of these hoops again, which understandably takes time. I guess they're rubber stamps.  It's always the paperwork. The CMA DMV is a little bit more. No, all joking aside, it really is probably going to be the paperwork, because I think the CMA wants to get a concession, declare victory. We got them to bow. Microsoft wants it done. They want it done before the end of the month. And yeah, I think there was some talk that Microsoft might want to try to carve out Activision Blizzard, because if they were to just go ahead and close it without the CMA's approval, they'd risk paying a fine to the UK for breaking regulatory rules. So I think they were thinking, well, what if we carve out Activision Blizzard in the UK? That would have been really messy. It would have kicked the can down the road. It would have upset the CMA, making them less likely they would want to resolve this. I don't think that's on the board anymore. It really does look like they're going to figure this out. Well, typos aren't just ducking annoying. They can also leak data. If you put a typo in something like an email address, you might potentially send embarrassing emails to a stranger. However, a new report from the Financial Times found that a common domain typo has implications for the US military. That's because the .MIL domain used by the US military often gets typed in as .ML, the country code domain for the West African country, Mali. This isn't theoretical either. Speaking to the Financial Times, a Dutch entrepreneur that's managing the domain, Johannes Zubier, set up a system to catch misdirected military emails to .ML addresses. He was looking for keywords like Navy, Army, that kind of stuff. Since January, this captured more than 117,000 emails since the start of the year. The emails include things like sensitive medical records, identity documents, military base photos. Military doesn't like that. Military itineraries like room numbers where high ranking officials are staying and that kind of stuff. Tom, this sounds bad. Is it bad? It could be bad. The important part here is that the contract that Zubier had to operate the domain for the country of Mali and today, July 17th. And so now Mali is in charge of its own domain again. Mali is very cozy with the Wagner Group, the Russian paramilitary organization. It seems to be fairly cozy with the Russian regime and with the United States engaged in backing Ukraine in the war in Ukraine that Russia is fighting. It seems like a bad idea for military emails to be going to Mali where they could be passed along to Russia. So that's one of the reasons this is a more sensational story than usual. The thing to keep in mind is that this isn't the military accidentally sending things. They actually have filters within the DoD to check to make sure .ml has not been typed accidentally and block emails from going to .ml. It's a blocked, you can't send email to Mali without special approval if you're working within the DoD. So it's not going to be people within the DoD sending emails to each other. That would be horrible. It is still a possibility and probably the majority of what's being caught by Zubier up until now is third parties. There's lots of military contractors out there. And if one of them doesn't have a similar filter in place, they might accidentally be sending information. And that's where you get them adding health records and stuff. I imagine this kind of intelligence is much lower level and much less useful than if it was coming directly from within the military. It's probably not impossible to get elsewhere. But it's not great. Not great, Bob. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. For a lot of more high-end correspondence, there are dedicated systems outside of email that are much more trusted. Those are not as open-ended. So it's harder to enroll a vendor or something like that in there. But what's really interesting about this, this shows a problem with enterprise security in general in that what the DoD did in blocking .ml emails and stuff like that is they were addressing inside a risk. Someone inside their organization, inside their four walls metaphorically, messing up and sending something the wrong way. And that is a whole branch of risk in any kind of large organization that is becoming more well understood. We're looking at behavior monitoring and stuff like that so we can see whether someone's acting maliciously or accidentally in either way kind of stopping that. But what represents what email is coming in is kind of third-party vendor or just third-party risk. And email is just this wide open system where, I mean, if we look at wider security stories, we've seen like the move it, manage file transfer, you know, exploit on there. Having all sorts of implications for giant companies like Shell was the latest one I saw that was implicated in a database with that. But we've seen all sorts of giant companies being vulnerable to that. Their security posture was fine. The DoD is doing what it needs to do from this. But they are only as secure as, you know, they're outside vendors that are contacting them. Obviously, they can do things. If this is a contractual relationship, they can say, you must have these, you know. Yeah, put these filters in place. Yeah, stuff like that. Yeah. And it should be noted, Amos, our producer who was in the military, says those filters are notoriously hard to get around. And he said, it's a fun meta-game we play. To try to figure out if they could get around the filters. Yeah, some fun background from them on the ground experience. Yeah, so it sounds like they actually work when they're properly implemented. You just need your third-party contractors to implement them. And yes, I'm sure some of you are like, also train your workers not to make typos. Yes, do that. That will only have limited effectiveness. People are going to make mistakes. I have all kinds of things come to Tom Merritt email addresses. Usually regarding training camps for football. I have been on several college football training camp invitation lists for many years. I have no idea why, but they're always to Tom Merritt. So some Tom Merritt did not get invited to training camp. Probably could have gone pro if they'd put in the writing email address, but for a typo. Well, folks, whatever you're typing on, we hope you enjoy it. If you're typing on an Android phone, we got something special for you. Android Faithful. Ron Richards and Huan Tui Dao bring you a podcast devoted exclusively to Android news and information launched right here in association with Daily Tech News Show. If you've been missing all about Android, you can still get Ron and Huan and all. Michelle's been on the first couple episodes as well. Episode two happening Tuesday, 8 p.m. East Coast, 5 p.m. Pacific right here at twitch.tv slash good day internet or available in your podcatcher of choice. Subscribe to it right now at www.androidfaithful.com. ChatGPT remains one of the poster children for large language models. If you talk about AI with somebody on the street, they probably heard about ChatGPT, but that has not stopped it from seeing a decline in usage. Recent data from similar web saw a 10% drop in traffic compared to last month. We talked about that briefly last week on the show. Sensor Tower reported a decline in app downloads as well. A recent piece from TechRadar's Christian Goitin cites several users claiming the ChatGPT quality decreased since switching to OpenAI's GPT-4 model. So it's not just the interest has gotten saturated, but maybe some people are just not finding it as useful. The new version of GPT, GPT-4, apparently prioritizes speed, but a lot of people think that maybe that speed is coming at the expense of quality. There's some other theories that perhaps OpenAI has been breaking up the machine learning model into smaller models trained in specific areas, and that way they can save some computer overhead by having smaller models because they take up less computer power, but maybe that doesn't work as well as just having the full model running. OpenAI has not confirmed whether that's the case or not. Rich, are you buying that decreased quality is the reason we might be seeing a decline in usage of these kind of tools? Maybe incrementally, but it seems like it's way more that this isn't the new shiny anymore. When you first got access, first of all, you had to get access to chat, GPT, so you're excited that you could even use it the first time you got to try it out, and then all of a sudden, it could answer all these prompts, it could do all this stuff. You know what it sounds exactly like? The first time you got the first phone with Siri, or you got your first Google Assistant, you got your first Amazon Voice Assistant. First time you talked to Eliza on a Commodore 64, for goodness sake. All of the magic with interacting with machines, and that honeymoon phase, it is sweet, it is intense, it is intoxicating, and then you start, you know, it's like, this is amazing, I can do this at all. Okay, it's not perfect, but you know, this is amazing. And then as chat GPT especially is starting to really work its way, not just into being like a tech curiosity, a bubble, but trying to integrate that more into our daily lives. I'm sure there are, you know, that's where you start seeing the gaps in its capability, what it can and cannot do. Now maybe the model does play into that. I don't want to dismiss those, you know, those concerns or something like that. And as OpenAI is moving to monetizing its APIs and that kind of stuff, speed is certainly paramount to that. But I think it just mostly has to do with we are living with this now. It is technology in the dirt. It is not the new shiny. I agree, and I do not, this is nothing but my own opinion. I do not have any data to back it up. So I have some good friends who work at OpenAI, and I'm sure they could poke holes in this if they were able to. But my guess is it isn't the chat GPT got worse or the GPT4 is worse. It's that people are now reaching the edge of what it's capable of.  Any new thing, any new piece of technology, you're always blown away by what it can do. Then you get used to that. You start taking that for granted.  That's not impressive. Any black rectangle can do that. And I think that may be happening here with these models as well where we're used to it being able to answer in complete sentences. We're used to it being able to understand the context of something we've been saying and have an ongoing conversation. Those aren't impressive anymore. And now we're trying to make it do things that it can't do. And it never could do because it's not perfect and it's not as all-powerful and dangerous as a lot of people may have feared or believed. So yeah, we're just seeing the edges of what it's capable of. That's my guess anyway. And I would say, especially for the web app, the idea is you might have found the way this fits into your workflow really well. At first you might have been trying, all right, I'm going to see if it can draft every email that I can do. And then I'm going to see if it can write up this paper that I need to write up. And you've probably found, if you're still using it, the subset of all of those things that it does well and then what it doesn't. So naturally you're just, you might be using it more focused, I would say, as opposed to the exploratory phase of all of this. And also there are more chat GPT or GPT-4, 3.5. These models are out there in all these different apps too. So you might have, there's just more of this stuff out here. So it's not that you're using LLMs or something like that less potentially. It's just that you have more options, even if a lot of them are from open AI themselves too. Yeah, still Dave says we might just be getting beyond the what is this thing curiosity and people who are probably never going to use it regularly have stopped. I think that's part of it too, well said. Well, even if chat GPT isn't seeing a decrease in quality right now, so-called AI cannibalism might lead to diminished performance in the future. This could come as the result of more and more tax from large language models being included in the training sets of future training models. Excluding this content is actually really hard right now because LLM generated text detectors aren't reliable. Looking at the tool GPT-0, ours Technica's Benj Edwards found it looks for degrees of perplexity and burstiness. Essentially these models look at the degree to which the next word or in a phrase is likely to be typical in its training set, like how unique is your completion of a given sentence or something like that and how variable your word and sentence length is. If it's all uniform or you're going run-on sentence and then staccato bang bang, the more perplexity and burstiness theoretically the more human, but it turns out people can be boring and AI is getting more complex. Yeah, the big one in this article is the US Constitution does not pass the test. It appears to be AI generated and they think that's because the Constitution is in the data sets thousands of times. And so they're saying, oh, this looks like the kind of thing that's in our data set. So it's probably coming out of our data set. And it's like, well, yeah, probably is a new data set. But this is going to be an arms race. There's always going to be a new thing that you can find that is emblematic of these AIs and then something's going to change. Maybe it's actual adversarial or maybe it's just the way people are using it. Maybe it's AI cannibalism where the training set starts to get polluted with things from AIs that are publishing on the web. And yeah, it's just never going to be perfect at detecting this. My guess is this will slowly get better as we learn these lessons though, don't you think? I think so. And I think we'll start getting away from the... I know a lot of these tools like GPT-0, like hedges, everything. It says it's likely or it's not likely or something like that. But I do think as we come more familiar with these technologies, I also think we'll become more comfortable with indicators of confidence when it comes to something like this, just like we've been talking about. Yes, yes. With these LLMs. Gradients. Yeah, for the gradients of how quote unquote accurate is the statement. We might see that as a feature in LLMs down the road. I also think these detectors really need to build in that nuance as well. So it doesn't become, especially in academic use, where there's academic integrity concerns as well. Yeah. Also, it strikes me that perplexity and burstiness really describe me in junior high. All right. One last thing to mention here today, Corsair. You probably think of them as the memory makers if you're old like me, or maybe you know them for what they've become more well known for recently, gaming hardware. They own Elgato. So maybe you think of them as the folks who own the folks who make the stream deck, but they just acquired Drop, an online retailer specializing in mechanical keyboards and keyboard customizations. If you are in the clicky keyboard customization world, this is rocking that world. Corsair plans to keep Drop operating as a separate brand. So don't get too frightened. But they do say they want to do some specialized Corsair and Elgato products through Drop right alongside their Marvel and Lord of the Rings items. Yeah, I kind of see this as they're extending all of their IP partnerships, right, so that they can just add these to Drops. But yeah, this is really, you know, the hotness for, hey, we have a limited dish. And we're going to have 50 of these keycap sets, you know, and, you know, they fit the certain profile and they're going to look great on, you know, all those hotswappable MX Cherry Brown switches or whatever the new hotness is. I can't even keep up on all the different types of switches, but this is kind of the default place you start looking to customize your mechanical keyboard journey, then you get into your subreddits and then you get into all the different community stuff where you really can go wild.  You're, you know, you're putting together your own keyboard and stuff like that. But Drop is kind of that gateway into this weird world of mechanical keyboard. So it's a heavy move by Corsair. You know, they, I was, I've been surprised how well they've expanded into kind of gaming peripherals and Elgato and stuff like that. And this makes total sense more into, I guess, lifestyle stuff too. Yeah, and it's a deep rabbit hole. I mean, I, I have an IBM clicking keyboard from my old IBM PS to 32 86. I feel like you know more about mechanical keyboards than I do because you've, you've dabbled, but I know you're, you're just on the edge of the deep well of, of, of this. Yeah, I like cold, but yeah, I can't even get into all the types of custom switches that are out there. Like that's, that's where you get into it, where you're like, it has like only 55 grams of activation force. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, that's. Keyboard fans. What do you think of, of Corsair get-and-drop? Let us know. Feedbackanddailytechnewshow.com. Let's check out that mailbag. Well, Mike and Austin rode in on a blockchain solution partially made possible by DTNS, or at least inspired by. He says, hi, cool with a K. I mean, little Tommy Tinkertown on episode 45 59. Tinker. Tinker. It's very important you pronounce that correctly. Oh man. This is what happens when I try to read alliteration fast. So please keep sending those in. I'm episode 45 59. You were responding to an email from Lauren from Montreal who wanted to know if there's a blockchain solution for tracking who contributed to the creation of digital media. I'm building videates that exactly for video content. Not only can you see everyone who helped in making the videos you watch like on chain versions of the credits of a movie. You also can contribute. But you can contribute to them monthly similar to Patreon, except instead of your money going to a single owner of the video, it automatically gets split appropriately between all the people who helped create each video you watched that month. And he says three years ago in episode 38 14, you explained how the Swiss nonprofit DFINITY was building a decentralized serverless app architecture. And after watching that episode doing a little research of his own, I chose their product, the internet computer to build this on. Look at this. Hey, that's fantastic. I'm so glad to hear that, Mike. And thanks for writing in and let us know about this. Mike also offered to let us do some stuff on the platform. So I will get back to you about that, Mike, and don't let me forget. I'd like to try it out. Sounds fantastic. Thank you so much for sending us that email. Tommy Tinker Town. Tommy Tinker. Tinker with an R. No L. That's an R. So thank you so much for sending us that email. I'm sure you can stick around for the extended show. Good day. Internet. We're going to be talking about. Nostalgic. Glee. We're going to be talking about a search engine called wibby. We're going to be talking about the fact that everyone loves the nineties again. Apparently so much that they only want to see web 1.0 style sites. Stick around. And patrons, you can catch the show live Monday through Friday. And you can find out more through the World Wide Web at DailyTechNewShow.com. It is a website. We'll be back tomorrow with and talk, we'll be back tomorrow talking about replacing human subjects with chatbots and scientific studies with Dr. Nicky Atkins. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. The Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.


with human rights around our world on Think Tech Live, broadcasting from our downtown studio and Honolulu Hawaii and Moana, New York. Today, we're looking at cultural life and arts and community, creating a global civil society of respect and rights. Article 27, Contributing Art and Culture for Our Future. Today, we're very fortunate to be able to speak with Virginia Dandan to talk with us a bit about this important right, Article 27. Virginia, thank you so much for joining us. Hello. It's a pleasure to have you. Can you share with us why Article 27 is so important and what first inspired you to care so much about this right? Well, it's hard for me to begin right when I cared so much about it. It feels like I've always cared about it, even when I knew there was a thing called Article 27. I caught up with that article when I was requested by my committee on economic, social, and cultural rights to write what is called a general comment. On Article 15 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights, which focuses really on Article 27. Just so we don't go all sorts of ways with this, can I just focus on several aspects of what this article says and tension to certain words or phrases? And the most important phrase word here is the first word, everyone. If you look at the declaration, it always talks about everyone. But hey, who is everyone? Is my little baby a part of everyone?  Is the dog part of everyone? Anyway, the general comment, and I really, everyone who's interested in, anyone who's interested in Article 27, should focus on Article 151A on the Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights. Why? Because when you say the declaration, Article 27 is the declaration. It's a declaration. And once a declaration, it says something. But how do you actually make it work?  So what you want to see is how does everyone has the right to participate in the life of the community? What does it really mean? And we go into such a long, long discovery of what it means to be part of a community, who can be part of that community, et cetera, et cetera. I can't go into that now, because we have just a drop in an ocean of time to talk about it. So Josh, where do you think I should focus? I think what's really important and what's so crucial is we know the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is turning 75 years. But what you're sharing with us is that from that declaration, there were twin covenants. And you're sharing your experience on the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights, so you sat as a committee member. And then the exciting part is not only did you review countries and share when they came to talk how they were implementing each right, but then a general comment is kind of exciting, because then that's an update or maybe an amendment. And maybe you can share some of the insights as the committee members were looking at what Article 15 of the ICSCR, and what it was at then, and maybe where we see that right now when we look at economic, social, and cultural rights, particularly culture and arts, and share those aspects. OK. That's a whole range of, you know, that's a large pie. You want me to eat here. To chew on. But OK, I'll do my best. But what are you doing? Chewing. OK, chewing. OK. Anyway, Article 15, 1A, I mentioned that a while ago, talks about the right of everyone to take part in cultural life. That's one, to benefit from the progress, from scientific progress in the arts, in science, in the humanities. And third, to be able to be protected against other people who would lay a claim vis-a-vis against your own claim to the material benefits. It's, as I said, it's a whole range. Let me just now focus on what we have learned to call it in shorthand. We call it the intellectual property right. OK. That's a more familiar name for what we're talking about here. It tells you at least most people, if not all people, understand that you have a right to the material aspects of your own creation, whether it be a novel, a poem, a song, a painting, a sculpture, et cetera, a work of art. What about the community? This is now the big question. What rights does the community have to, for example, my production, my art production, when you say everyone has a right to that, what right does the community have after I produce my work? It says, if you read it carefully, the law international says that my community has a right to my production. Now, that is where the tricky part lies. So this is where we need to focus our attention on. Where does the right of one individual begin and end as far as the rights of the community to which this individual belongs also exists? So I don't know how you want to go about it, Joshua. That's a very tall order. Even when we were writing and adopting this general comment on the right to take part in cultural life. And that's only one right. It's a different thing about scientific progress, et cetera, et cetera. There were so many issues that we could not really go ahead and say we're smoothly sailing by. So I don't expect that we are going to sail through with our discussion this morning. So just go ahead and please ask me, because I don't because I can keep talking for three days. I warn you. So just focus my attention on what I want you to say. So the universe of declaration of human rights understands the necessity for contributing to the culture and arts in our common community. And the UDHR also provides a path for humanity to illuminate the possibilities for peace rooted in own unique culture and express through arts. And Article 27 is an essential means to mobilize the human rights movement centered around community aspirations that's shared through the arts. And what I remember and appreciate so much about you is how you actualize this article and some of the actions that maybe you've been involved with either in the special procedures or also what's so unique about you is also an artist that you can share with us a lit how we can promote and protect Article 27. Yeah. Well, thanks for that. It sort of focuses it a bit. The creative aspect of this, I can probably talk about the creative aspect because that's what is important to me as an artist. Nevermind that I'm also what they call a human rights expert. That's just on the side. The main issue here is what happens to my production as an artist. When I finished working with my painting, of course I want to share it with the community whether for material benefits, like I can sell through the galleries and that's another part of this branch of services that have something to do with the right to culture. Number two is that's first. Number two is when you're talking about culture. What exactly are you talking about? Are you talking about everything? Yes, we are. All the material production is part of culture. So how now do you sort of sift through the eggs and the yolk and when you're cooking, you need to be able to separate all your ingredients. That is the dilemma. Up to now, Joshua, that is the dilemma. We have tried very hard with the general comment to sift through all these dilemmas to know about it. Every time we always hit a blank wall. Why is this? It is because culture is not really universal. We have different cultures for each, let's say group or community of people. It has their own culture, their own traditional practices that they have a right to. So when you say that me, I have a right to my production as an artist. But if I begin to show it to the world, then my right becomes in full display and it now attains a certain personality that may or may not be connected anymore to me as an individual artist, but only to the community into which I now introduce my work. And it's true, the UDHR does call for a course of voices for a better world, sharing that vision of inherent dignity and inaneable rights for all. And on the 75th anniversary, it's imperative to cherish and celebrate our rights through culture and arts. Maybe you can share how powerful art is to be able to actually inspire the global human rights movement. To inspire. I don't know about the inspired part because when I do my job, I do it because it's expected of me and not so much with the noble intention that I wish to inspire because I believe that unless you're working in isolation, everything that you do has an impact so you either inspire and courage or discourage or with your own production of art. I'm now speaking as an artist, Joshua, you've never heard me talk like an artist before, exclusively like an artist because I have strong feelings about my work, my relationship with my work and I keep telling that to my students. My responsibility as an artist, including aspects of human rights and intellectual property, are nothing when I am creating and when I'm finished with my creation and I put it out there, it becomes something. And the artist will never accept that he or she no longer has any claim on that art that it has released to the world. Up to now, I feel it's like having puppies, I suppose you can't let go of what used to be part of your being because when you create something, it is a part of your being, it is an expression of your being and to actually release it to the world to say, it's no longer part of me, it's not possible. So we still, maybe you guys who put together the organizations who put together important seminars and workshop, maybe you can further discuss this. It needs to be discussed. We need to find out more, for example, about how the indigenous peoples feel about their cultural practices because this is really a bone of contention because we keep expecting something from the indigenous peoples when they have their own. There's a declaration on the rise of indigenous people. Again, it's a declaration. To find the legal aspects of all of these things, the articles in the declaration, you'll have to go back to the Human Rights Committee, the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the Rights of the Child, CEDAW, et cetera, et cetera. You need to be able to work on in this two-pronged approach. I appreciate that and it's very true when you brought up the UDHR, but there's also the UN DRIP or the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and it's very important how indigenous peoples are exercising really the right of self-determination, the right of free, prior informed consent to be able to bring their art to the world to share, to make sure that the rest of the world also understands but also respects what they're bringing and sharing with the world. And so I think that's a really important point that you're bringing up, the UDHR and the UN DRIP or the UN DRIP, really, especially where you're at and looking at the Philippines and Southeast Asia and Asia Pacific has so many indigenous people, it's one of the richest places where we see Article 27 come to life and the culture usually also shapes the people and even the public policy. So that's what's so fascinating as we look at Article 27 because it takes so many forms and it's an honor to speak with you because not only are you an international human rights law expert, but also a practicing artist and very few people dance in both worlds and you have that great ability to understand the right, not only from a theoretical perspective, but by living that right. And maybe you could share with us a bit as well, some of the exciting people or NGOs that you've worked with throughout your career that you think are champions of Article 27 and how they've been able to make sure that that right lives on and is even more appreciated by all of humanity and is always enriched by their strong advocacy. Okay. Here I don't want to get into trouble with my colleagues in the treaty body system, because I keep telling them that, yeah, we can talk about the law, et cetera, but until and unless we are able to show how this laws can be implemented on a daily basis, on a practical basis, then we're just, you know, wailing at the moon. That's what this is all about. But I have suggested, recommended, more not suggested a recommendation stronger than a suggestion that we need to be able to ask the right questions when various communities come to us.  Let us just stop, you know, looking at people and dislodging them from the link to a cause. There is always a cause. My experience the committee has taught me that I always have to be on the lookout for this cause because it's what brings people together. That's why the NGOs who come to speak to the community have such a strong voice because they have a common cause. That was always the bond that brought them together. And in that particular bond, you will find really the definition of what human rights is all about. No matter what the lawyers say, et cetera, human rights is all about humans. So we must find a way towards defining what that human is. I wrote my dissertation built on that towards a definition of the human in human rights because guys were forgetting what that word human is all about. I think that's why I have to do that. And it's a crucial point because if we look at that, not only were you a scholar writing that and you performed a very important role being on the committee on economic social and culture rights, one of 18 in the world, but then after even assisting to do a general comment, which is really seen as such an important role to shepherd that through that then in a way crystallizes or understands how these rights are evolving throughout life, then you also served as an independent expert. Can you maybe share those? Now there's 45 independent experts. Why those independent expert roles are so important and what those independent experts bring to the UDHR and how they keep each article alive. When we're talking about the value, we're talking now about the value of being able to work as an independent expert because well, for a long time, I will admit the term independent expert didn't really mean anything, independent expert. What does that say? Well, anyway, for your information now that I have worked for how many more than almost three decades at the UN, I know that when you say you're an independent expert, don't focus on the expert side. Based on practice, the independent is more important. When you're independent, then you are really doing valuable work for the UN. Why? Because people look at you as somebody who is not there to put forward her own agenda. So they begin to talk and it's so important that they have this in relation to article 27 because it says freely to participate. When you say freely, what does that mean? It's a freedom. It's not just a right, it's a freedom. What is the difference between freedom and a right? Well, a freedom, you're born with that freedom. You're also born with the right, but you have to go somewhere to claim that. But freedom is really your being.  And for me, that is the most important value that an independent expert can bring to everyday people. They become the link between the everyday reality of people and this very abstract world called the United Nations, which can be like saying the Pacific Ocean, because you don't know what it's all about. At least you begin to personify what this world organization is all about, what human rights is all about, because hopefully you are able to reflect in the way you talk, in the way you relate to people, in the way you ask questions, it gives them a sense of they are what is important. They are what the United Nations human rights system is all about and there's no ups and buts about it. So for me anyway, that's my personal view of the whole thing. No, it's a great point and we look at independent experts, we look at working groups, we look at special procedures and the Rapport tours, those special procedures, I agree that it's the independence that they can be able to receive information from directly impacted people, be able to take that knowledge and then help people to make a difference in their lives and show what's possible in a way, in two ways. One is country visits and the other is studies that actually look at the important issues of what people are facing and the latest examples of being able to ensure those rights are realized as we live. One thing I would love to ask you about is if you look at Article 27, it focuses on the right to freely participate in the cultural life of one's community and enjoying arts to contribute to making an impact on Island Earth. It's participation through literature, painting, poetry and song in a way provides a tapestry for transformative change in our communities and our capital. Can you share a little bit more about major heroes or sheroes for Article 27 as we are looking at that? My goodness, there are so many Joshua, you can't expect me to leave them their names now. There's so many and such heroes or sheroes, you know, as they are beginning to get called. I'm not going to say they're a dime a dozen, but they're so numerous, really. They're not some character, because when you say hero, you pick one out of a million or somebody and the person is a hero. No, all of us are heroes. Every single one of us are heroes. And as such, we have an obligation to each other and to our communities to be able to protect and respect and fulfill human rights. That's the short of it. It's very short, but that's about it to work towards the human in human rights. What is it to be human according to our world in human rights? Oh, and it looks also at the UN Charter. It starts with we the peoples and whether we the peoples in the world that we find. And I definitely think if we look at the headline news these days, it does make us ask, what does it mean to be human? And as we look at 75 years of the UDHR, there's been a lot of changes. There's the commission on human rights, which you were part of and participating that then became the Human Rights Council. And many people thought the special procedures would be limited, but it's exciting to see new special procedures being created, such as climate change in human rights and to be able to make sure that the human rights movement continues to grow because those 30 articles of the UDHR, they have been able to make sure that more and more people are at the table, that everyone's voice is heard because we know 75 years ago, not everybody was being included. So that's one of the powers on the 75th anniversary is to see where we are today. And maybe you can share with us a bit a vision for the future of this right, on Article 27 and all of them. Well, now that I am no longer a part of the UN system of human rights, I have the luxury of looking back. And in fact, I'm writing a book now and heaven knows if I ever get it published, but I'm writing it anyway. And sometimes I feel that, you know, my memory when I look back and let's say, for example, look back at how it was when I visited Brazil for my country visit, certain things are no longer clear, like, you know, not clear in the sense that I don't know what happened. I know what happened. But when I look back to translate the impact, the importance of all of these things that I'm talking about, I now question, not question, but I now realize that living a life and looking at the rights, you cannot exclude also your obligations, the rights and obligations of a person. That's why it's so important that we bring that message, find the human test obligations, has rights. But what makes this human, human is the obligations that this human has because that brings to light what community is all about. What's community anyway? It's a group of people who are accountable to each other, who care about each other and who put their focus more on the most vulnerable groups in the community. So here you have the Universal Declaration on Human Rights and what does it focus on? It focuses on the basic human rights values, universal values that we have, which is equality and non-discrimination, inclusion and participation, because sure, you can be included, but if you're not participating, what's the value of your inclusion, right? And then you have accountability and transparency in everything that you do. And most of all, the priority attention we give to the most vulnerable people within our community. That's absolutely perfect. And it agrees, what you're talking about is that spirit, that sense of solidarity of all our rights being interconnected, that concept of philosophy, as you're talking about of Ubuntu in South Africa, but that many cultures share that we are one and really what was also written in the UDHR when they were thinking in Paris was that we must stand together for one another, because that's the only way any of our rights will be realized. Thank you so much for sharing with us about Article 27. Thank you.


French President Emmanuel Macron and what a warm reception Watch live from Paris You're watching French President Emmanuel Macron and Israeli interim Prime Minister Yair Lapid Waving to the press pool. They have just warmly embraced outside the Lise Palace They are making their way inside and we are expecting them to deliver remarks Shortly if and when that does happen. We will take you there live still with me here in studio Daniel Ben-Simon journalist and former Israeli Parliament member in the Labour Party and our Middle East analyst Netanyel Shoraki. So Daniel, what are your thoughts as we see what's happening on our screen that warm embrace? Yes, he's won already He's won what? He touches you until you say enough is enough He that's what he did in the Knesset to his friends as a journalist. He had Soft words for each one of us Even when he felt bad about anyone he would use soft words and he would hug you until you say enough Yair enough So this time you see what he did to Macron. Macron kind of collaborated this guy. He went with it but Israelis would love it because it shows a Kind of what the French say camaraderie or You know Friendship strong friendship, but as I'm talking about the essence essence of it Will he be able to tell the Israelis I've achieved this and this and that or we will go With the pictures and with the style rather than substance. He is so lucky this guy has been lucky since came to politics like now He's inherited two major a Visits or appointment. I mean American president and the French president in one that week Let Bennett not bad for a way What a bad start and and and he likes to do this Clinton used to be touching all the time and and having soft words it works with the voters and and he will do this is a good starter and As I said in the essence I wish he can make a change of difference so we can Be happy as to the style. He looks like a French actor. You know, is it is it does he look like a French actor a bit? Yeah, yeah, the French will love it. They love handsome people Yes, yes, I mean, you know It's working it's a success can we go actually a hundred percent to you later Actually, Michael is a very good client again because Michael is also very tech that he likes Touching people. Yeah, you see there's always a kind of like power play when he does that I remember I did it when I was in the Crescent in the work I'm going to ask you for your take on what you saw there You know exactly the significance of the meeting and the words behind the scenes But what we saw right now that welcome was very special a Certainly a big moment for your ear lapid at the start of this next four months campaign to stay on as Prime Minister if he can absolutely and again, it's it's a win visually already it was it's not it wasn't a hard win again, but the question whether there will be more diplomatic concrete win is I might cast out about this because the very end of the sequence we saw I don't know if you notice it doesn't always happen is that there was the secret are party that the particular secretary of the Eliza Palace who just already put on the two You know stance stands the content of the speeches the species are there They're already written and that probably means whatever happens inside. They already know what they're going to say to the public So it's probably not so much of a high stakes Encounter and if it is one not going to know about it because the speeches are there you can see them actually As we speak you can see like sheets of papers on on those on those two stands So it's it's for both parties, especially for lapid It's really much about Communications marketing and the upcoming election again for my con less. So also he doesn't have a lot of cards in his hands He's in this is not managed to interest a lot of people in France about what's happening with with lapid and Unless he manages to secure an insane amount of gas From him which will interest the French public nothing gonna happen Well, let's go live to Paris president Emmanuel Macron and interim Israeli Prime Minister. Yeah, you're not paid or about to speak We happy. It's an honor to receive the Prime Minister of the state of Israel in Paris my friend Yeah, you're not paid And as I said to you when you arrived it's been a few years that we've been waiting for this encounter Hasn't it I Am really happy that you have chosen France as your first official visit abroad in your new Post as entering Prime Minister. This is something that really moves me This encounter was needed there is an exceptional relationship between our countries and between us as human beings This visit comes at a crucial point in time in many ways The war has come back to Europe A war chosen by Russia and that will have an impact in all of us The integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine must be respected as well as its democratic rights And that is why we have to stay together and be at their side Your visit comes at a crucial point for the Middle East Because of different crises that come and go You can count on France We will always be with you regarding the security of Israel We will guarantee the stability and security of the whole region. You also know that you can count on my Determination to fight against our common enemy terror that has Strict an Israel again in the last few months Among the different crises in the region of Israel and that have to do with the interests of France and Europe I will speak about the new program of Iran I would like to remind you about our will to try to achieve a resolution regarding the Negotiations for a deal with Iran we are in agreement with Israel that this agreement will not be enough To stop the activities That Iran carries out to destabilize the region But we hope that we can put a threshold To the nuclear activities therefore this deal needs to be defended We do take into account the security issues of our friends in the region and we have to complete this deal with strong negotiations regarding ballistic and other issues I am sorry that Iran refuses to take advantage of the opportunity which is offered to them This happened in Doha with the Americans and then but we're going to continue coordinating with all of our partners in order to Convince Iran to come back to reason. There's also a positive side the normalization of relations between Israel and Many are upstate. This is a contribution to the stability and security of the region I am all in favor of this process Israel is a close partner of France the Arab countries as well So a partnership from between them is Necessary it needs to be deepened. We need to widen this dynamic And I'm sure that France will accompany this whole process There also have to be tangible resolutions For the Palestinian conflict that will respond both to the security of Israel and the aspirations of the Palestinians Prime Minister dear Yair Lapid Here again your visit comes at a crucial point We need to To restart dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians, I know that you can Launch again this process that has been stopped for such a long time. I don't ignore the obstacles. I am aware of them But I know that sometimes you can find a way And I speak from experience when I say that I think you have what it takes to respond to this challenge I would like to see a timeline Respecting of course What is the environment in Israel, but you can count on me to accompany you in this process and I will mobilize the world Opinion in favor of that and I will conclude with Lebanon. You know how attached I am to Lebanon this stability of Lebanon is Paramount for the region To fight for this stabilization and I'd like to remind you of The negotiations on the maritime zone between Lebanon and Israel We need to do everything possible In order to make sure that you can reach an agreement in order to exploit the energy Resources for the benefit of both people France has contributed already and is ready to contribute even more Considering all of these challenges, and I haven't mentioned all of them You know them as well as I and we will have the opportunity to speak about them. I'd like to say The government of Israel the people of Israel is lucky to have a you Have you at the head of the government never forget that you always have a friend Loyal friend attached to Israel security and doing success in the whole of the region This success you and I know it has to go through a difficult Road, but I am convinced deeply convinced that you'll find all the resources and you have all the resources to Lead your country towards it Dearest Ariel, thank you very much for having chosen Paris for this first official visit abroad. You are most welcome So much mr. President dear Manuel It is a true pleasure for me that my first official visit As Prime Minister of Israel is to a country that is a close friend and with the president who is a close friend. I Thank you for the warm welcome for your support and friendship over the years And I thank you for your firm stance against anti-semitism in France and around the world Francis taught the word that Liberty and agility Cannot exist without fatality. Our friendship is based on values and on under the understanding that values are worth fighting for This past year with the war in Ukraine and the terrorism from Iran We are reminded that not only does democracy protect us, but we must also protect democracy Sometimes there is no choice, but to use the force of war to protect peace Israel and France are more than just friends. We are strategic partners We have a host of economic and defense corporations and together We are determined to expand and develop them Especially in the technological spheres Not only is France a leading country in Europe, but it's also is also one of the E3 countries leading the negotiations with Iran on the nuclear deal We may have disagreements about the content of the agreement, but we do not we do not disagree on The facts the facts are that Iran is violating the agreement and Continues to develop its nuclear program Iran is hiding information from the world. It is enriching iranium beyond The level it is allowed to and it has removed cameras from its nuclear sites given all this The word must respond Mr. President back in 2018 you were the first world leader to talk about the need for a new deal with Iran A deal that is more efficient and better defined a deal with no expiration dates a deal with coordination Coordinated international pressure that would prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear threshold state You were right then and you're even more right today The current situation cannot continue as it is It will lead to a nuclear arms race in the Middle East Which would threaten word peace we must all work together to stop that from happening Any place the terrorism is found Iran is never far away Just recently the Turkish government exposed Iranian cells that plan to murder innocent Israeli tourists in Istanbul a few days ago Iranian made UAVs try to attack an Israeli gas rig Near the Lebanese coast These UAVs were sent by Hezbollah a terrorist organization that threatens Lebanon's stability Violates its sovereignty pushes its towards a dangerous escalation with Israel and harms the national interests of Lebanon a country I know is dear to your heart Hezbollah is more has more than 100,000 rockets in Lebanon aimed at Israel It tries to attack us with Iranian rockets and UAVs Israel will not sit back and do nothing Given these repeated attacks My friend, I don't want our dialogue to only revolve around risks and threats Israel and France has are dealing with this period in a similar way We are strengthening and the new entrepreneurship innovation and technology and the ability of young people To break boundaries. I thank you my friend for your kindness and for your friendship and Look forward to continuing to work together for the benefit of those our countries. Thank you so much Thank you, Mr. Price Prime Minister, and please convey our friendship to your people and your present Thank you so much. Thank you everybody You are watching live images outside the Elise palace interim Israeli Prime Minister Yair Lapid and French President Emmanuel Macron waving to the press pool having just delivered their opening