Today's topic is magnetron sputtering. So, it is one of the deposition process under physical vapour deposition technology and let us have a quick look to this non magnetron sputtering which is commonly known as planar diode sputtering. What are those features and how does it differ from the magnetron sputtering? Now, we can have a sputtering chamber and here located the target and this is the substrate. Now, these are the lead wires which is connected to this power supply and we have a negative polarization and this can be grounded and this is actually the substrate that means, receptor surface receptor of this coating material which will be dislodged and detected from this site and it will come like a flux which will be intercepted by this substrate material. Now, here what we can do further to what we have added that means, this substrate can be also polarized that means, it can also have one negative polarity which is independent of this power supply and in between we can have a plate which is called the shutter. The whole idea here is to have the best possible clean substrate and clean target. Now, this is one of the very speciality of sputtering process. The whole idea here is to have the virgin surface of the target as well as the clean surface of the substrate. In order that we can have the best possible coating in terms of all the quality whether it is the mechanical property or electrical property or any functional property. So, that the best effort is made here and this is here in this sputtering technology we get an edge over any other coating technology that in situ during the process once the target material that means, the source material and the substrate that means, the receptor materials are admitted inside the chamber then they are cleaned and this is done in situ and that is the speciality of this sputtering process. Now, what we can have just like the shutter. So, here it will be negatively polarized similarly the substrate is also negatively polarized this is electrical isolation these are the electrical isolation and this can be also grounded. So, these are separated electrically isolated from this chamber and obviously, here we have a precise metered quantity of argon gas which is admitted. So, rest of the thing it is according to the principle of sputtering. Now, during this process what happens this can be grounded with the chamber and what is going to happen in this case that sputtering will occur and that means, ejection of the material will take place from this surface similarly, dislodgement of the substrate surface that will also occur. So, in this process if there be any contaminant any impurity oxide scale or anything any foreign material that will be removed and that may be collected on the both sides of the shutter plate and later that can be cleaned or that can be replaced and once that is done reasonably and this is a function of the operational parameter and the time then what is going to happen then the shutter is removed and thereby extending this plasma over this and then the sputtering starts and this flux is intercepted by the substrate. So, at the very beginning what happens at the very beginning the sputtering is done on this top surface and the incoming material is collected from the target similarly, it is above the substrate and then it is also collected this material and then both are now absolutely cleaned and hardened in surface. So, here this ions are used and this is more or less what we can call ion etching that means, removal of the material. So, this one can recognize this very special advantage of sputtering, but this is still what we called DC planar diode sputtering DC planar sputtering it is the simplest one, but it is not independent of any difficulty. So, in even after realizing that so many flexibility this process can offer, but it has some of the basic weaknesses and there have been numerous examples of effort to improve the situation and to make the process more efficient, more productive and that is why what we see it is now called the non-magnetron sputtering that means, there will be a magnetron and that is exactly what we call as magnetron sputtering. Now, what are the limitations of planar diode sputtering? Why one should at all go for this magnetron sputtering? Number one is that to initiate this discharge what we require a very high voltage and this is in the order of few kilo volt it can be reasonably say 3 kilo volt. So, this is 3000 volt that is necessary and then argon pressure argon pressure may be 50 millitor and which is equivalent to 6.5 Pascal. So, this is also another operational parameter so, high voltage and high pressure. Now, these are the two thing which are at the high end. Now, our requirement is to maximize the cathode current that means, the discharge current even with this the discharge current even it hardly reaches 1 ampere and as a result of that what we get a ion current density on this target surface hardly this is 1 ampere the discharge current which can be recorded and measured and this ion current density it is hardly it is in this order that means, 1 milli amp per centimeter square that this the unit area of this target material. So, even with the best effort what we can see that this is just the order of ion current density and sputtering rate that will be may be around say this is just an indicative 400 angstrom per minute. So, that may be one of the indicative value for this. Now, there has been lot of attempt to increase this voltage, but this increase of voltage does not mean that this material erosion rate or sputtering yield will increase rather it will keep on falling. So, if we consider sputtering yield s that means, atom per ion it may take a shape something like this even with increase of electron volt that means, when we increase this discharge voltage naturally what is what we try to increase that means, the ion energy. However, at the same time ionization cross section that will keep on falling and as a result this sputtering yield will also keep on falling. So, then it is actually the ion energy so, then it is not a very useful or fruitful method. Another way of doing the thing that means, it is actually this discharge current enhancement augmentation that is done by this argon pressure. However, so there we can see definitely an increase in sputtering yield with increase of pressure, but too much of increase of pressure what happens that also restricts the mobility of this sputtered flux of atom from the target and also easy movement of this ion or the electron that is also restricted because of the too much of crowding of this argon atom inside and that is because of this rise of the pressure. So, it is a fact that just by increasing this discharge voltage or this argon pressure marginal gain may be made, but this cannot be considered as one of the very efficient process. So, what we can summarize here that if we consider this target and the substrate here, then this is the plasma volume and this is actually the this is the plasma volume this area and this is we call cathode dark space. Now, what happens this secondary electrons they have a free access and they can move in this direction and they can impinge on the surface of this receptor surface of the substrate and in this process it is high energy impingement thereby increasing the temperature of this substrate and also it could be that quality of the coating that can be also little bit affected. So, the whole thing is that this secondary electron it enters this plasma volume and that becomes the primary electron and then they are going to strike. So, what we see from this whole process that this secondary electrons are not efficiently used in the close proximity of the target where we need the concentration of ion and with high energy ion in this vicinity of this target surface. So, that is the whole issue that how to make this secondary electron which are emitting from this target surface because of the striking of this ions argon ion shear this not only just cause dislodgement of the target material, but also it is also the emerging of the secondary electron. Now, how to make this secondary electron more efficient? So, that is now the main issue concerning this sputtering process. So, here what we find that magnetically assisted sputtering and that is exactly the origin of this magnetron sputtering. In fact, this magnetron what we mean it is actually magnetically assisted discharge associated with sputtering. That means, in this sputtering device we have one electric field and in addition to that there is another magnetic field. So, with their combined effect an attempt is made to make this electron secondary electron more efficient useful. That means, a single electron under the action of both electric and magnetic field will become more efficient that means, it is expectedly it will generate more number of ions by striking having more number of collision or hits with the argon neutral once it is coming in the way. So, that is exactly where the magnet magnetic assistance is provided. Now, let us look into this charge particle moving inside one magnetic field. What happens to that? A charge particle is moving inside a moving inside a uniform magnetic field and there are two cases. In one velocity of the charge particle is exactly perpendicular to the direction of magnetic field. Say for example, this is one charge particle having this velocity v and at the same time we have here one magnetic field and that is denoted by this symbol B and if these are at right angle then perhaps it will be something like that it will have it will keep on orbiting and this orbit radius that will be given by. So, here the force will be v into q into b where that is the charge that is the magnetic field and that is the velocity and that can be equated by this centrifugal force to which it is subjected and from there we can get this radius of this spinning radius comes out to be here this is actually m v by q b. So, this is actually the radius spinning radius. So, here this is this angle is 90 degree. So, they are at 90 degree. So, here it will keep on orbiting around this and this orbiting radius will be r which is given by m v by q b. Now, this can be there can be another situation where it is not necessarily they are at right angle that means, we have this velocity and then this is the magnetic field and in between there is one angle theta. So, there will be 2 component one will be along b that means, say the if this is v. So, this will be v cos theta that means, that is along component and then there will be another component which will be that sin component which will be at right angle v sin theta. So, in this case what is going to happen this is just not spinning it will be a helical motion. So, helical motion that means, with this v cos theta it will have a drift motion along the magnetic field, but at the same time it will keep on spinning and as a result we have this helical motion of this charge particle it may be electron. So, this will be the direction of magnetic field and that will keep on spinning and it will be like a spiral motion. So, that will be the motion of the charge particle when it is just not at right angle, but it is making an angle theta with the direction of the magnetic field. So, this is just 2 examples how this charge particle will behave when it is put in a magnetic field. Now comes if we now have a electric field in addition to the magnetic field. So, we are coming very close to a situation very close to a sputtering where already one electric field it does exist, but what we like to have we like to add one magnetic field and this electric field and magnetic field putting them together with their combined effect the net result will be to make this electrons more efficient than with a than the case with a without a magnet. So, that is the thing now presence of electric field in addition to magnetic field here also we can have 2 situation in one case both fields are parallel to each other this is one situation and in this case this electron this charge particle will have a motion which will be parallel to this field both of the field they are in the same direction. So, the drift motion will be along this field direction, but if they are at right angle to each other say for example, let us put this way this is one electric field E and then we have one magnetic field which is working like this magnetic field and. So, these are the 2 fields which are very much present and then how this charge particle will behave then there will be a motion called E B drift motion it is the cross product. So, this is called E B drift motion and with this drift motion this charge particle will have a velocity with this E B in this direction. So, that will be this E B drift motion that will be the direction. So, this is very much applicable to this sputtering where this magnetic force is going to assist the sputtering process or generation of the ion. So, this is actually going to be the drift motion that will assist in generating more number of ions per electron collision and this is the drift motion now drift motion are at right angle and exactly what has been shown here that when they are at right angle. So, with this line with this mark with this mark we are showing the drift motion and this is magnetic and that is the electric field now form of the drift motion now form of the drift motion is also very important it can be there are two situation two extremities we would say one can be a circular motion. That means, this drift motion will be very close to that of a circle. So, it will follow it will follow almost like a circle. So, it is moving in this direction, but it is also almost following a orbiting and at the same time it is moving. So, this is a drift motion. So, it is almost following however another extremity will be that where we have what we called a cycloidal motion that means, it is something like this. So, it will be more or less like a cycloidal motion now this happens because of the situation if the energy gained by this charge particle because of the very presence of electric field if it is larger than the initial energy then it will be a cycloidal motion, but if it is just the contrary to that that means, the energy gained because of this presence of electric field that is smaller compared to the initial energy of this charge particle then that will be more or less like a circular motion. So, one is cycloidal so it will move like this. So, it is the drift direction, but it will also have this trajectory. So, this is actually the trajectory, but it is directed in this direction in this along this line which is at right angle to this B and E. So, cycloidal and circular now process parameters. Now, one would like to understand and know and that will be the immediate interest centered around this values cathode current density discharge voltage argon pressure and standoff distance. So, these are the few parameters which will be of immediate interest to any one who will be interested to operate this sputtering device to get a coating having all the required properties that means, if we have non-magnetron on this side and this is magnetron. So, here cathode current density straight way with a magnetron a cathode current density of milli 20 milliampere per square centimeter it should not be a difficult tasks to attain. Whereas, on this side it will be just limited to 1 milliampere per centimeter square of the cathode surface discharge voltage. The discharge voltage on this side it is say an indicative value not at all exaggerated it is 3000 volt, but this can be achieved with a voltage say 800 or say between 600 to 800 volt that is not at all a difficult task. So, on this side one can get just 1 ampere maximum and on this side 10 to 20 ampere can be very easily achieved and then the argon pressure what we have already noted this is this millitor that means, it is about 6.5 Pascal and on this side we can just get down to 1 millitor which is equal to 0.13 Pascal and then standoff distance that can be quite high here it is about 4 centimeter it can be as high as 20 centimeter. So, if we compare this two without going into any detail one can immediately recognize the capability the efficiency and the productivity of this magnetic field assisted magnetically enhanced sputtering and which we call the magnetron sputtering. So, this is the advantage one can very easily recognize with the addition of this magnet in this along with the electric field. Now, current voltage characteristics for a planar diode that means, what we mean here it is a non magnetron and a planar diode it is also DC, but provided with a magnetron. So, we have two sources here one with a ordinary without having any magnet and the other one which is backed up which is having a backup of a magnet. Now, with this let us have a quick look in this diagram and this is also another reason how efficient this magnetron is. So, one would be very much interested not only in the magnetron how good or how efficient the magnet its geometry design its field strength what should be the best value. So, far as this current voltage characteristics is concerned that means, this current voltage characteristics is a true index of the whole process this discharge and their magnetron or no magnetron that picture will be totally clear if we just try to illustrate the whole thing with this graph. So, this is a characteristic feature on this side we have the discharge voltage and that is the discharge current and with this discharge voltage and discharge current naturally one would be interested to have the line that means, less voltage and more current that will be the objective of this sputtering or this use of magnet. Now, here we can see two graphs one may be something like this this may be one graph another graph we can find this is on this side. Now, here we can just have some by way of illustration some indicative value may be this is around 3 k v and this is around say 20 ampere and this is just around 1 ampere and this is say few hundreds of volt 500 volt and this may be around 0.1 ampere. So, from this one would like to one would expect that this graph this graph should prevail and this is this is the characteristics of V i and this is possible only with the use of a magnetron and this is without a magnetron we must mention here what was the pressure argon pressure argon pressure in this case it is of course, by way of illustration this is 6.5 p a which gives us 50 millitor and this is actually 0.3 p a that means, 1 millitor and this is actually 6 point this blue line 6.5 p a Pascal and that is actually 50 millitor. So, what we find immediately the difference between that means, this is this blue is non magnetron this is non magnetron and this is with the magnetron. So, the use of the magnetron that is immediately felt and realized just by looking at this V i characteristics and this V i characteristics we can also put in this form that this is actually proportional to i and here we should put now when it is omic conduction we can put the value of n as 1. However, V is proportional to i in omic conduction and this is 1, but however in this case it is just not one. So, we should put a value we should put one index that is n. So, this n is an index and that n that shows the performance of magnetron. So, n is an index showing the performance of the magnetron. So, normally it is our experience that it is varying may be with from 5 to 9. Now, this value one should look for a higher value that means, what we get here this can we can put also in this form also because here it is voltage and current we can also put in this form i is proportional to V that means, here it is the voltage which will be applied and to get the cathode current. So, if we can put this way this is also valid and this is actually the index here what we can see and this is actually 5 to 9 that means, from this relationship from this relationship what we understand that to get a level of cathode current we need certain impressed voltage. Now, what should be its value whether it will be in the kilo range if you 1000 or it is in the few hundreds range. So, obviously our choice considering all technological constraints and limitation one would be interested in a low value of V and that is why to get that same value of current one has to increase the value of n and exactly this n means this is the role played by the magnetron that means, better the quality of the magnetron more will be the value of higher will be the value of n and this n will be showing the performance of the magnetron. Now, planar diode magnetron sputtering source how it is made let us have a look we can have a planar magnetron or we can also have a cylindrical magnetron. Now, in this case we can have say for example, a planar magnetron a rectangular piece like this and here what we can have these are the magnet these are the magnet with north south poles and this is a central pole piece this is the central pole piece which is kept like this. So, that is why this becomes south. So, naturally what we see this is a rectangular plate and here we have north and this is south. So, lines of force that will flow like this. So, this will be the direction of lines of force and this way we can have one such configuration. So, this is a rectangular that means this can be like this. So, this is one rectangular piece and here we can have this is actually the cathode or the target material this is actually the target material and beneath this we have such a configuration of the magnet and then we have the electric field in this form this is the electric field and then this is the actually the direction of this magnetic field and as a result of this with this eb drift we can have this eb drift eb drift motion and that drips motion this will be like this. So, drift motion will be in this direction. So, that will be the drift motion. So, here we expect one drift motion that means this electrons are actually locked this electrons secondary electrons in close proximity of this target those are locked and those are trapped and they are forced to orbit following this drift motion that means we can expect a drift motion like this. So, this will be the drift motion that will be the direction. So, the electron will keep on orbiting this path and that is locked and trapped. However, over this we have to super impose this cycloidal motion cycloidal path. So, it will be something like this. So, this will move in this form. So, it will have this motion and that is directed in this direction and from this side when it is on the other side it will be in this way. So, one thing we observe immediately that this electrons are actually following this path at the same time it is also moving along this cycloid and thereby it is actually following a longer path it is just not the emission of electron from the cathode and arrival at the anode. So, these electrons are locked they are trapped in close proximity of the target and they have such kind of motion this orbiting and this cycloidal motion. Thereby the chances of collision with more number of argon neutrals will be more that means, one electron has now the possibility of splitting more number of argon neutrals into argon ion. Thereby what is going to happen we have now a densification of the plasma with a heavy ion flux density that is the bombardment or impingement over this target surface. So, in this close proximity of this target material because of this locking of the electrons in this near this surface we have now concentration of ions which will be generated by this collision as it follows this path and more number of ions will be generated by one single electron and there will be densification of the plasma and that will have a cascading effect that means, that will lead to larger ion flux that means, ion current density will be more and finally, it will lead to high sputtering yield more number of ions per unit time sputtering yield erosion rate and then also the deposition. So, this way one can consider the effectiveness of this magnetron and how it is making the secondary electron more and more efficient in that it is now capable of splitting and ionizing more number of neutrals than ever before when it was not trapped or locked by this magnetic field where it has a free access from moving from this cathode surface to the anode surface and like that. So, this is one planar target instead of this we can also have cylindrical one it depends upon the flexibility of a process or to simplify a process or to make the sputtering technology rather an easy option for doing the coating. So, in that case if we have a circular target then also what we can see it is going to be a circular target if it is like this. So, here also we have this kind of trajectory. So, this will be exactly the way what we have shown here by this red line that is the track that is the drift motion here what we are showing by this blue line that is the drift motion and over that we have to superimpose by this cycloidal path and it will go like this over this surface and it will be just following this longer route and as a result it becomes more efficient and chances of ionization of this neutrals will be more. So, this is just one circular plate, but we can also have a cylindrical magnetron it is a cylindrical it is almost like a look like a shaft it looks like a shaft and it can be placed inside the vacuum chamber and this is the top side. So, there will be suitable fixture and this is inside the chamber and here also we can have the magnetic field it will be like that and it can be an electromagnet. So, inside we have this direction of this field and then this is target that means that is the cathode and if we just have the top view of this whole the system then what we can see for example, this will be the cylindrical target looking from the top and then you have the chamber somewhere here that is the chamber wall we can have a very quick look and then this is the wall. So, field will be electrical field will be directed in this way this is the electrical field and then this is the magnetic field. So, magnetic field is like this it is normal to this paper. So, as a result of this what is going to happen it is e b drift and according to this e b drift there will be a drift motion. So, if this is vertically now here we have the magnetic field which is actually upward vertically upward. So, b is vertically upward this is the direction of e and as a result we have at this point e and b. So, that will be the drift motion. So, at each point this will be the drift motion. So, that will be tangential. So, we have a drift motion which is also circular, but over that we have to super impose this cycloidal motion. So, it will be something like this let us put this. So, this will be the actual path followed by this electron and it is close to this target or the cathode and this way it can also shifts the track and when it is near the wall it will be more circular in nature. That means, here it will be more circular in nature though it is also following this path it is also the drift motion. So, this drift motion is like a circular motion and over that we are actually super imposing a circular form or a cycloidal form. So, this is also another way of sputtering and in this case the material will be sputtered and it can be sputtered on a in a hollow tube because it is a cylindrical solid target. So, it can be used for this purpose for coating this internal surface of a tube. So, this way what we see now this magnetron that is actually helping in getting a low discharge voltage, high discharge current, high deposition rate and the requirement of low pressure. So, with that what we can see we can also have a look in this what we called this variation of planar diode magnetron sputtering. That means, a normal non magnetron planar diode system can be converted into a magnetron sputtering system keeping all the basic feature of this without deviating from the basic feature. That means, it can be a single target magnetron, it can be multi target magnetron, it can be also a multi target magnetron with substrate biasing, it can be also magnetron sputtering with a reactive gas. So, it can be reactive magnetron sputtering. So, all the variations are possible just with incorporation of the magnet and the machine or the apparatus become much more efficient than the case where we do not use the magnet. Now, structure zone model this is one we can say this is just like a map, this is just like a map of the structure which is the outcome of any sputtering process. So, let us try to illustrate this point here just by drawing this block diagram. So, this is just like a rectangular block, this is a rectangular block, this is just a rectangular block and in this rectangular block we have few variables of sputtering. For example, along this direction we put this notation T by T m. Now, this T is actually temperature of the substrate T s by T m and T m is actually the melting point of the target, T m is the melting point of the target and this is the temperature of the substrate. And on this side we have the process pressure and let us put say this is 1 millitor, this is say 10 millitor and this is 20 millitor and this is 30 millitor and here we can now have segmentation of this block to show the structural features of a sputtered coating. That means, a layer is developed by this sputtering process and let us have a quick look here say this is about 0.1. So, this 0.1 means actually 0.1 means T s by T m 0.1 and this is about this zone. So, this is one zone we find and then we have another zone which comes around at 0.5. So, this is another zone and this we can also show like that then we have another zone around say 0.7 and here it is around 0.8. So, this is 0.5, this is 0.6 and this is 0.8. So, let us have some discussion on this. So, this one what is the physical meaning of this diagram? This is actually called thorn turn diagram thorn turn diagram this is actually the mapping. So, here what we see that if we like to have a structure and this is called zone 1, this is a transition zone and this is zone 2 and this is zone 3. Now, zone 1 that is characterized by a porous columnar growth. So, in sputtering it is mostly columnar growth in the vertical direction it is a growth like a broomstick and in this side we have a porous structure and it comes like almost like this it is a dome and it is a with a back taper. So, this is a porous structure which is growing and that is here. So, physically what does it mean? Let us try to understand if we increase the pressure then up to 0.5 T s by T m we can expect such a structure which is very very undesirable, but if we like to have this structure with a small temperature range which is actually 10 percent of this cathode melting point then we have to get down with the process pressure of 1 millitor. So, from this diagram one thing we understand immediately the significance or implication of this low pressure operation we can have high pressure and we can ignite the discharge that means to initiate the sputtering that can be done with high pressure with much ease, but in that case we will be always left with such a undesirable structure or growth architecture of the coating and that can prevail even if we increase the substrate temperature even to 50 percent of that of this cathode material or the target material, but if we like to lower the substrate temperature which is one of the significant point of sputtering then if we like to have a deposition with a low temperature then we must also reduce the process pressure here. So, this way we understand that at one on one side it is the temperature of the substrate which should be at the low end considering temperature sensitiveness of the substrate and at the same time capability of the apparatus to work with a low pressure. Now, here what we have this is a transition between 1 and 2. Now, what we have in zone 2 these are also sticks, but finer in size and densely packed and it is also densely packed. So, a transition from this porous to densely packed that starts within that and in this case also what we see if we work at 30 milliter it can go up to 0.6 of T s by T m, but if we can reduce this pressure then it can be done with 0.5. So, this is a zone and which will continue up to 0.7 of this ratio with 1 milliter, but which can be extended with up to 0.8 of T s by T m if we increase the pressure and in the zone 3 what we have as we increase the temperature it is actually the diffusion and movement of the mobility of the adatum which are being which are received from the sputter flux. So, it is actually this mobility of this adatums and lateral movement that makes a structure what we call equiaxed it is very very grainy it is like a grain like structure in that zone 3 and zone 2 broomstick with highly packed broomstick very dense structure it is open structure and it is a transition that is changing. So, what we understand from this that this effect of pressure is extremely important and if we like to work with a low pressure then obviously, the significance of this magnetron sputtering is immediately felt and immediately understood and in that case we can work with a low substrate temperature provided we have the possibility to work with a low pressure and that is possible by this assistance from this magnet and that is called magnetically assisted sputtering or magnetron sputtering. So, with this we can summarize the discussion that planar diode sputtering is characterized by the high discharge voltage high argon pressure. However, low discharge current and low deposition rate these are the limitations. However, the main weakness of simple diode sputtering is inefficient use of secondary electrons. So, these are not properly utilized in this system when we present when we bring a magnetic field near the target surface and we have also seen that this magnetic field line is parallel to the target surface immediately it intensifies the plasma by locking and trapping the electrons and it is along a trajectory and that is called the drift motion. So, it has to follow a particularly guided motion and it cannot be a stray electron and that will lead to an increase in ion impingement and sputtering rate. So, we also find that magnetron sputtering source reduces the requirement of high voltage, high discharge voltage and high argon pressure and significantly improves the quality of this sputtered layer or the coating.


Well, as I've said, they're volatile. There can be fluctuations of them, but I believe that over the long range, they're coming down. Do you still think they'll come down this summer, sir? What? Do you still think they'll come down before the summer's over? I'm going to stick with that prediction. Some people are worried about... Let's go turn this into a Christ conference, Chris. ...for the golf, sir. What? That we're getting militarily involved in the first round. You're asking questions again. Do you think total opportunity rules are still the same here as they are on that other rose garden? My friend, Temple Neal, is trying to get to Gary Hart to drop out today, so Mondale's the nominee. Do you think Clark should drop out, sir? I wouldn't help either one of them with that decision. OK, that's enough. Did you drink your wine last night? That makes enough, huh? The idea is, do you have for oil sharing if there's an oil interruption further than we talked about? Those are all things that we're going to share here. We recognize that we can act better together if faced with such a crisis. Does that mean we would share our oil supply, sir? I think we would all probably mutually share. Other nations have reserves also. Thank you, Mr. President. That's good. That's a great myth. Go with you. Mr. President, the Chancellor is complaining about high U.S. interest rates. What will you tell him, sir? So far, he's just said that he's glad to see me. But not your interest rate. Will you discuss interest rates at all, Mr. President? I will, Mr. President. Will you discuss interest rates? I don't know. We'll find out. We'll try to talk about it. Mr. President, does this happen? No, I think it's a subject that we have to discuss yet. We haven't discussed it in the beginning. Will you mention the Libyans when it comes to terrorism, or will it just be general? That's going to be terrible. We'll name names. Mr. Chancellor, what do you think about high U.S. interest rates, sir? You have a great night, officer. Thank you, Mr. President. Wish I could do that. Mr. President, some people interpreted your criticism of the Soviets yesterday at the front desk. And it is taking away from your call for reconciliation with the Soviets. Which do you mean most? I followed it up with the reconciliation. And I think I would just be realistic as to the fact that their military had remained. So we're sitting facing an empty chair and waiting for them to sit down. For true reconciliation, sir, must they quit Eastern Europe? Must they take their troops out? That would be one of the things that would just probably automatically plow us into this reconciliation. Mr. President, there are indications that some of our allies are more interested in oil conservation than tipping into oil reserves. Move like that to threaten the world economic recovery. Well, this is a subject we have to talk about, all of us, yes, and we haven't talked about it. Thank you, sir. You can take the rest of the day off. OK, good.   I like it.


Ladies and gentlemen, the 75th secretary of the Navy, the Honorable Ray Mabus. Ladies have a seat please. First, I want to take a moment to honor the memory of midship and third class, Justin Zimzer that we lost last night. And I know that the brigade and the Navy family is struggling with this and our thoughts, our prayers go out to family, friends, and to the entire brigade for losing such a crucial member of this institution. So to Vice Admiral Carter, to the Naval Academy faculty, and most importantly to you, the brigade of midshipmen, thank you for welcoming me during this busy and pretty exciting season on the yard. And I know that you're ready to do graduation next week and commissioning. I know that you're ready to get on to your summer activities. And I know that probably you weren't eager to come here. And so what's the secretary of the Navy doing here? And why should you care? Well, what I'm doing here is to talk about some things that are shared interest.  If you're not getting commissioned next week, they're going to have an impact on you right away. And if you are getting commissioned next week, they're going to have an impact on the things that you do in the Navy and Marine Corps. Because that future begins with the policies that are being announced today. And I think that future is very bright.  Our Navy and Marine Corps uniquely, uniquely provide presence around the globe, around the clock, ensuring stability, deterring adversaries, providing the nation's leaders with options in times of crisis. We're America's away team because sailors and Marines, equally in times of peace and war, are not just at the right place at the right time, they're at the right place all the time. We get on station faster, we stay longer, we bring everything we need with us, and we don't need anybody's permission to get done what needs to be done. And our ability to provide that presence is built on four fundamentals, people, our sailors and Marines, platforms, the numbers of ships and aircraft and systems, power, how we fuel those platforms and partnerships. Our strong relationships with industry, with international friends and allies, and with the American people. On that list, people come first for a reason. People are the Navy and Marine Corps' greatest edge. It's one of the reasons I've traveled more than a million miles in my six years as secretary to talk about, to talk with our forward deployed sailors and Marines, to talk with them where they are, on deck plates or deserts. And in these conversations, I've listened to their ideas and now I'm trying to turn those ideas into action. I'll give you one small example. During all hands calls, I started getting questions about why sailors couldn't wear their ball caps ashore. Well, I didn't know, so I asked to see you know. He didn't know either. So we sent out a two sentence order saying it's all right to wear your ball caps. It's a very small thing, but it's important. It's important to morale, it's important to unit cohesion. And I get thanked for that very simple thing just about every place I go. But too many times, ideas get entangled in this briar patch of bureaucracy. They never make it to a level where somebody can take action to get something done. So earlier this year, I established the Navy's Task Force Innovation. That's a group from across the department comprised of thinkers and experts and war fighters with diverse backgrounds and from every level. Along with the Chief of Naval Personnel, the task force has gone out to the fleet. They've sat down with sailors and Marines. They've listened to their input about how we can better manage the incredible talent of our people. What we've always known is that the way we recruit, develop, retain and promote sailors and Marines is crucial to our success. To fight and win in this century. We've got to have a force that draws from the broadest talent pools, that values health and fitness, that attracts and retains innovative thinkers, that provides flexible career paths and prioritizes merit over tenure. Whether we're talking about systems and tactics in the digital age, or we're talking about personnel management, we have to evolve to meet the needs of the future battle space and the needs of our people. Or we can and we will lose. The Chief of Naval Personnel and Task Force Innovation have responded to that call, but up till today we've talked about what ifs. Well today we're going to shift from what ifs to what's next. Some of the initiatives I'm going to announce today will take place at the speed of my pen and some will take place at the speed of Congress, but all of them, every one of them will impact you. Shortly after your commission or as your careers progress and as you lead sailors and Marines into the future. Now to talk through these initiatives I'm going to try to paint a picture of what you can expect in the years ahead. It's our goal that your careers will be defined by flexibility, by transparency, by choice, and that starts with service assignment. Our process has already evolved to prioritize best fit over class rank. Next year we're going to continue to refine the system to one that is talent and interest base. Now similar optimization models have been used at far lesser institutions like the one on the Hudson, but I have to say they have increased the likelihood that individuals received their first choice in service assignment from 80% to 99%. Let me say it another way. Our new process will all be guaranteed that midshipmen talents and interests are paired to their choice in service assignment here at the Academy and ultimately at ROTC and OCS. And the fleet will get the right officers in the right communities. But we can't stop at service assignment. We have to make big data analysis a permanent part of personnel management. So I'm establishing the Office of Talent Optimization here at the Naval Academy starting in September. This office is going to better identify ways to align our sailors and Marines talent getting out of the here and now and focusing on future warfighting requirements of our communities. They're going to pilot programs like the one created by Lieutenant Mike Maybury of the CNO's Rapid Innovation Cell that applied web-based LinkedIn style approaches to officer detailing. And they're going to report their findings directly to the Chief of Naval Personnel for implementation. Now we can't optimize performance until we optimize opportunity. You all deserve a service in which you can aspire to lead at the very highest levels, knowing that people like you make it to the top. One thing, we need more women. We need more women in the Navy and Marine Corps, not simply to have more women, but because a more diverse force is a stronger force. We need highly educated officers and women today represent 57 percent of the college graduates in America. The military at large lags society, but the Department of the Navy is making some rapid progress. And as usual, Naval Academy is leading the way. Female sessions will pass 27 percent for the class of 2019. And in the fleet this year, we're also increasing female enlisted sessions, emphasizing those ratings in which women are underrepresented. By the time you reach your second or third tour, your squadron, your ship, your unit will be much more demographically representative of the nation you serve. And that's critically important, both to the quality of our all volunteer force, but also important to fulfilling the principles of the democracy that we defend. Both our platforms and our career paths will allow for equal service opportunities. And that's why I'm personally committed to opening all operational billets to women. In the Navy, women wear every warfare pin except for the trident reserved for SEAL trigger pullers. In the Marine Corps, we're conducting the most comprehensive assessment of physical standards ever undertaken. And the results are going to enhance combat effectiveness and readiness in all military operational specialties. And they're going to do this independent of gender. But in all cases, I personally believe we ought to have one standard, a standard that's gender neutral, a standard that matches the demands of the job. And if you pass, you pass, regardless of which community you enter.  And there's still work to be done, but we have instituted an increasingly effective sexual assault prevention and response program and a victims' legal counsel that has increased reporting and provided critical support to those who come forward. But we also have to make sure there's no retaliation, no ostracism of people who report, whether by the chain of command, or by their peers. Support to sailors and marines has to extend beyond the workplace. Our greater Navy and Marine Corps family is equally worthy of support. I know that none of you today is married and that you don't have legal dependence. I also know that's not going to be true for a lot of you over time. And it isn't true right now at NROTC and OCS. And in the near future, all of you are going to lead sailors and marines who are working parents. As a far deployed force, our op tempo is very high at sea and ashore. So we've got to take a more holistic approach to supporting families. To make sure you have time to spend with your newborn, we're proposing legislation that will double paid maternity leave from six weeks to 12 weeks starting next year. We've already established 24-7 childcare development centers in three fleet concentration areas. And we're beginning immediately to hire staff in numbers that will enable us to expand Navy and Marine Corps Child Development Center services by two hours on both ends. So they're going to start two hours earlier, they're going to end two hours later than happens right now. What that ought to mean is that sailors don't have to worry about childcare centers not opening early enough or closing too early. For dual military couples, those who doubly commit to service, we're updating our co-location policy, focusing on much improved opportunities for career progression, joint service co-location and active reserve integration. Our high op tempo also demands a year round culture of fitness. You've got it here. But what we've got in the fleet is a high stakes, twice a year crucible that often results in sailors resorting to drastic and unhealthy measures that serve no one. The Navy's fitness culture should focus on producing war fighters capable of accomplishing any mission at any time and it should support healthy lifestyles that are going to reduce our overall medical cost. So we're going to completely revamp the physical fitness assessment. Our pass fail system that only and sometimes inaccurately assesses one aspect of overall physical fitness is going to end. We're going to instead focus on evaluating health, not shape. As junior officers, you're going to be responsible for the fitness of your sailors and Marines. In the Navy alone last year, we separated 1,500 people, 1,500 sailors for failing the PFA. That waste everybody's time and waste everybody's resources. That's more than we separate for drug use, for example. In our new culture of fitness, we're going to change the way we measure body fat. We're going to supplement PFA cycles with physical readiness spot check so you can't just get ready for the test. And we're going to document performance on fitness reports and evaluations. To set sailors up for success, we have to outfit them properly and increase opportunities for physical training. Now here at the Academy, you've got a full athletic sea bag and you have access to the best facilities whenever you need them. That's not the case in the fleet. So we're going to open a cat card, access 24 hours a day, 7 days a week gym on every Navy Marine Corps base worldwide. And we're going to issue the Navy fitness suit, the one that you all have tested here at the Academy, to the entire fleet. The Marines already have their version of these. Sailors and Marines can earn fitness suit patches for outstanding performance. And those who maintain that level of performance over three cycles will receive the Outstanding Fitness Award. Physical training is only part of the equation. You've got to eat right. Well balanced diet is the foundation of a healthy lifestyle. So we've got to provide nutritious food options for sailors and Marines at sea and ashore. We've got a fuel to fight program and it was launched by the SEALs at Little Creek. And it increases the availability of lean proteins and vegetables and complex carbohydrates in our galleys. We're going to further develop this concept at one sea base to one shore base unit next year. We're going to pilot it for a year and then we're going to implement it fleet-wide in 2017. Now, the old saying goes, a compliment to a healthy body is a healthy mind. Innovators need stimulating environments and opportunities for intellectual advancement and development. Elementary, repetitious, time-consuming task of general military training just don't achieve that end. And they eat into a CO's ability to spend more precious time training to fight and to win. Therefore, beginning June 1st, I am ending GMT as we know it. We've had people that have had to go through it, haven't we? Let's stop all Department of the Navy-directed GMT on Navy knowledge online. What we're going to do is we're going to let the Command Triad, the CEO of the EXO and the Command Master Chief to determine if and when training is needed and to make relevant training more accessible and efficient. I've tasked the Chief of Naval Personnel and the Office of Naval Research to develop some mobile apps for fleet release in 2016. And we're going to continue other types of mandatory training like that against sexual assault. And you've experienced it and you've heard sea stories of the mundane, the arduous, seemingly pointless GMT, but starting June 1st, you're not going to have to experience it anymore. But education goes a long way beyond GMT. Peloponnesian general and philosopher Thucydides is credited with saying, a nation that draws too broad a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools to educate Navy and Marine Corps leaders. We now provide immediate and voluntary graduate education, war colleges, naval postgraduate school, academic fellowships, but we've got to have some more. There's a big divide between the civil and the military society in America. And we're missing too many opportunities to develop battle-proven warriors into strategic thinkers.  He's assigned to Strike Fighter Squadron 213. And he has deployed multiple times in support of operations enduring freedom and inherent resolve. His contributions to a 39-plane Alpha Strike on ISIS that involved five international partners that delivered 19 weapons on five separate targets earned him recognition as the Naval Air Force's Atlantic Naval Flight Officer of the Year. And yet, despite being accepted to Harvard, to Tufts, to Johns Hopkins, we couldn't find a way to send him to these types of schools. So to retain the strategic thinkers like Lieutenant Jacobs and to broaden their skills, starting in October, I'm going to expand fully-funded, in-resident graduate programs at civilian institutions by 30 billets. So if you learn your trade and you excel, we're going to send you to our nation's top institutions. And by the way, Lieutenant Jacobs, let me be the first to congratulate you. You've earned one of those billets, and you're going to go to Harvard. By the way, that's a pretty good choice since I went there. And they crush Yale just as often as we crush Army. As we invest in you, that was not in my speech, by the way, as we invest in you, we want to provide you more opportunities to apply your skill sets to the needs of the Navy Marine Corps on the broadest levels. So we're creating much more flexible career paths. The career intermission program, for example, allows sailors to pursue family or professional, academic, and other interests outside the service without damaging long-term potential. The concept was a success for a few officers you may have heard of, Porter, Nimitz, and Amos. Each one of those took leave from the service to broaden their leadership skills and to learn primarily from industry. Our pilot program in this was tremendously successful. So I've submitted a legislative proposal to increase career intermission program billets from 40 to 400. And we're submitting follow-on proposals that allow participants to consider a menu of compensation, healthcare, and timing options tailored to meet your needs. Having mastered your warfare specialty, there may come a time when you want to broaden your professional experience, which is why we will partner with Fortune 500 CEOs to create the Secretary of the Navy Industry Tour. Starting this fall, commanders will have the authority to send their best qualified officers to work at America's top firms. When these officers return to the fleet, they'll bring industry's best practices with them. But some lessons can't wait. And that's one of the reasons we're asking Congress to amend our current broad-based bonus system to make it look more like those used in the private sector. By granting department leaders the flexibility to match pay incentives with individual skillset and talent levels, we can better compensate and better retain officers and enlist it. Now, of course, the Navy Marine Corps team isn't about bonuses, it's about leadership. Leaders who consistently outperform their peers should be advanced at faster rates, not held back by tests or zones. So we're going to adjust the Navy Enlisted Advancements this year by replacing the Command Advancement Program, the CAP with a Meritorious Advancement Program, or MAP. And that allows commanding officers to petition for more advancements and need them or to give back unused ones. In October, we're going to expand the number of available MAP advancements to 5% of the force, and we're going to extend them to shore-based commands. In that same time period, we're going to further empower commanding officers under the oversight of their immediate seniors to separate sailors who aren't up to the task, reducing delays that can take more than a year without sacrificing due process for those sailors. So in other words, as you lead sailors and Marines, as division officers, as department heads, ultimately commanding officers, you'll have more control over who you advance and who you separate without being subjected to a really cumbersome administrative process. And for those here who are going to wear the Eagle Globe and anchor and earn the honor to lead Marines, we're revamping our manpower model to mature the force and address gaps in our noncom ranks. 60% of Marines are on their first tour, and 40% are E3 and below. So we've already implemented the squad leader development program to mature and further professionalize the force. What this does is it screens small unit infantry Marines. It selects candidates based on performance and provides them with opportunities for education, qualification, and assignment. Promoting our troops is important. And so is making sure we promote the best officers with the right skill sets for the future. So within the limits of the law, we will emphasize broader milestone achievement as the foundation for promotion eligibility. Doing this increases competition and opportunity, allowing the best to rise to the top, regardless of when they were commissioned. As a long-term solution, we're drafting a legislative proposal for fiscal year 17 to eliminate officer management by year group. This allows those who aren't ready for promotion to continue to serve in the same pay grade longer, or for those who are ready to advance through the system faster. A golden path of inflexible career wickets in year groups and promotion zones aren't going to determine your success any longer. Your performance will decide your timeline for promotion and for leadership assignment. These initiatives are aimed at getting the right people in the right jobs at the right time. They're about providing those who commit to defending the American dream an opportunity to live the American dream. They're about fixing our shortcomings so that our best people choose to stay in the Navy Marine Corps and by keeping our best people will be better warfighters. While we celebrate diversity of our people, we are uniform in purpose as a part of an organization that priorities service over self. We're uniform in mission as we protect sea lanes, deter adversaries, assist partners and strike enemies. We are uniform in our core values of honor, courage and commitment, but we also have to be uniform in how we present ourselves professionally to one another and to the public, at home and abroad. And uniformity is about ending the way we segregate women by requiring them to wear different uniforms rather than highlighting differences in our ranks. We're going to incorporate everyone as full participants. Take a look at the pictures on the screen behind me. These are from 2009. If you see the brigade of midshipmen, you see male and female mids. If you look at the Corps of Cadets, you see just that, a corps. In fact, for almost a decade, the only way West Point was able to do better than us on the football field was by presenting that United Front. We fixed that, and now we are truly undefeated on the field. In the Navy and Marine Corps, we're trending toward uniforms that don't divide us as male or female but rather unite us as sailors and Marines. We've conducted a thorough review and both services have already initiated the transition. As Marines continue to test and field a common choker blue blouse, that unmistakable Marine Corps dress uniform, it'll be worn next week at commencement here at the Academy along with a common cover. Same applies to Navy service dress white choker and combination cover. The Naval Academy is about leadership and commencements are about new beginnings. So there's no better venue to debut the future of the Navy and Marine Corps in multiple contexts, to the fleet, to the Corps, and to America. So I look forward to seeing next week not male and female officer candidates but new United States Naval and Marine Corps officers. So I'm getting close to 30 minutes. Your attention is going to, if it hadn't already, stray from me to what you're going to be doing in commissioning week. But I want to leave you with a few final thoughts. There's a high likelihood that a future CNO or commandant sits in this audience and that he or she may be you. The policies I set forth today are designed to enable all of you to achieve that level of success. All of you will not aspire to serve in the same capacity. Some will use service as a launch to another career and that's fine. Remember, the Naval Academy is about command and citizenship and government. If your career goes loutside of the Naval service you can move on for the right reasons and do so with the depth of your Navy and Marine Corps experience supporting you. Your heritage is one of war heroes and presidents, Olympians, astronauts, diplomats, CEOs, and the occasional Heisman Trophy winner or talk show host. Transition with pride and remember, I was a sailor once and was part of the Navy and the Navy will always be part of me. For those of you who commit to a career of 20 or 30 or 40 years, and I encourage you to do that. Take ownership of your Naval service. Make it better for future generations. Dismiss the faults and sort of toxic notion that the best officers are getting out because it simply isn't true. The best officers are the ones forward-deployed today, leading sailors and Marines. Being an officer is an enduring commitment. And while the Navy and Marine Corps are great, they're not perfect, which is why we have to have great officers to lead. If you know of ways to make our service better, don't just be the critic. Be the man or the woman in Teddy Roosevelt's words in the arena, whose face is marred with dust and sweat, advocating for change, so that we all can experience the triumph of high achievement. It's because of that tradition of leadership and because of the promising future that I see before me sitting here today. I can invoke President Kennedy's words to the brigade for more than five decades ago and update them for today. Any man or woman who may be asked what they did to make their life worthwhile I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction. I served in the United States Navy or Marine Corps. So to our future insins, Semper Fortis, always courageous. To our future second lieutenants, Semper Fidelis, always faithful. Thank you, beat army. Who's got a question? 4,500 people. Who's got a question? Good morning, sir. First class Halgren. I support the initiative of uniting men and women under one uniform, but my question for you is, why are we proceeding about with the assumption that our uniform is the male uniform and making women look like men rather than uniting both in our common unisex uniform? First question gets a coin. Well, number one, I hope that's not the assumption that we're just making men, women look like men, we're trying to. We've completely redesigned the combination cover, for example, to make them actually fit your head of the ones we issue now. Choker whites and choker blacks for the Marine Corps are iconic uniforms, and that's why we're going that way. Now, the women's choker whites aren't like the men's choker whites. They don't have pockets, they're tailored differently, but they are choker whites. Now, we're not in everything.  There's still formal uniforms that are sort of completely different, but for the day-to-day stuff, you're already in unisex uniforms most of the time. The ones you got on today, the blueberries that make men and women unfindable in the sea if you fall in are unisex. And as I said, we're not trying to make women look like men. What we're trying to do is make everybody look like a United States sailor, a Marine. Mr. Secretary, midshipman first-class Aldridge, you talked about expanding graduate education opportunities for people. I know of two first-class midshipmen that have been able to attain full funding to Stanford University and MIT that are not going to be able to go because they fall just outside of the 20-person quota for those specific billets. Do you have any plans to expand graduate education specifically here at the Naval Academy to midshipmen similar to these? Short answer, I think, is yes. The other part of that answer, though, is right now, things like the career and admission program, stuff like that, don't start until after your obligated service is over. We're going to be... and that's a law. It's like gravity. It's not just an idea. It's a law. And so we're drafting a legislative proposal to allow people that take time off right out of college or to go to Stanford, to go to MIT to do something that's not within those quotas that you won't be disadvantaged when you come back.  So, yeah, we want to keep... we want to keep people who have that academic ability. We want to allow them to take those academic options and opportunities, but we also want them, when they come back, to not be at a competitive disadvantage in the fleet. It may be too late for this year. Good morning, Mr. Secretary. Garrett Murano, 18th Company. My question is concerning opening billets up to all females. Understandably, there's a lot of implications to this. As it stands now, not one female has passed the infantry officer course. What are you going to do about the standards for that? Are you going to be lowering them at some other bar? What do you think the reaction from the public is going to be for opening up these billets? And as it stands now, if you're going to open up the infantry to officers and enlisted females, what's going to happen to the draft? Because of now only males are required to sign up for the draft. And also with this new reform for... and also for this new reformed fitness culture, what is going to happen to the PRT standards and the tests? I didn't hear the last part. PRT? With the new reform for the fitness culture, what's going to happen with the... Are there going to be new PRT tests or newer PRT standards since we're going to be opening up all billets to females? Okay. Number one, one of the things the Marine Corps is doing today is getting the absolute best benchmark in terms of what the physical standards are. Do the physical standards have something to do with the job or not? Making sure that they do. Now, and I put there personally, my personal opinion, and we're going to be making recommendations to the Secretary of Defense and the President later this year to meet the timeline of by the end of this year, the working assumption is all billets are going to be opened by the end of this year. You're going to have to ask for a waiver, an exception to policy to do that. My notion is you set up gender neutral standards. If you pass, you pass.    If you come from, if you pass the standards, if you meet the standards, you can do whatever job that is. Now, for seals, for example, 80% of men can't pass. And keep the standards. Do not lower standards in any regard. Do not lower readiness. Do not lower fighting ability. And since I don't see the draft coming back anytime soon, I'm just going to tell you I don't have any idea about what that would do. And on the PRT, we're talking about two different things here. We're talking about standards to do a specific job. We're talking about overall fitness day in and day out. For the PRT right now, all we do is we, first we take BMI, body mass index, measure your neck, measure your waist. And if you're out of spec there, you don't get to take the PRT. That doesn't seem to make much sense. We're going to go to, we're going to try to extend what we can. And we may have to ask for a waiver on some of this. The Air Force has already gotten a waiver on a lot of this. But we're going to go to measuring your waist first. Because that's a much better determinant than the body mass index, the ratio. But even if you don't meet it, you're still going to take the PRT. You may lose points in terms of what your waist size is or you may gain points if your waist size is smaller. And we're also going to do spot checks. I don't want people training for the test. You ought to see the Pentagon right before PRT's. I mean, people are out running a whole lot more than they are the rest of the time. We're going to do some spot checks. We're just going to show up and say, you know, today's your day. Go do PRT. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Sir. Mr. Chairman, first class, Chris Kent. I had a question about platform, sir. With the aging cruiser and the Zumwalt destroyer cut to three, what plans does the Navy have to replace that cruiser capability in our fleet? Well, number one, I'm all about growing the size of the fleet. On 9-11, 2001, we had 316 ships. By 2008, after one of the great military build-ups in our history, we were down to 278 ships. In the five years before I became Secretary, we only put 27 ships under contract. That wasn't enough to stop the fleet from getting smaller, and it wasn't enough to keep our shipyards in business. My first five years as Secretary, we put 70 ships under contract with a smaller top line. By the end of this decade, we will get to 304 ships. Now, we would be at 314 ships. Our PCs in the Arabian Gulf right now that we've upgunned, that we send on some of our most dangerous missions. Like, they were the ones around Merced Tigris when the Iranians seized it. They were the ones that do a lot of escort duty through the Straits Formuse. Congress decided last year we can't count them as a part of our battle fleet. It wasn't a military decision. Our COCOMs count them. The Navy Council, I guarantee you the Iranians count them. Congress said we can't count them. And the only reason they did that was because it goes against their narrative that somehow the fleet's getting smaller. And it's not. Our fleet is growing. So that's a big general answer. I'll get to your question. We have put in a proposal that Congress has not accepted yet to put 11 cruisers into modernization. We've got 22 out there today. We need 11 at a time. If we can modernize all 11, we can keep them going into the middle 2040s. That's a long time with cruiser, with those cruiser capabilities. Congress has come up with a 246 plan that you can only induct two a year for no more than four years, no more than four at a time for no more than six years. I think I may have gotten the four and the six backwards. But if we do that, we're going to keep the other cruisers that we're not putting into modernization. We're going to keep them sailing. We're going to keep them completely manned. We're going to run out of money to modernize the rest of the cruisers. So I think basically Congress doesn't trust us. They think we're going to lay up these ships. We're going to take them out of service or something. But I think that's the furthest thing from the truth. As I said, I'm all about having it. The way we're trying to do it is to keep them going as long as possible with the entire 11 complement that we need at any given time. And if we've got 11 in modernization, if something really bad happens, and we need those cruisers, except for the ones under in deep modernization or deep maintenance, we could remand them and get them to sail pretty fast. Thank you, sir. All right, one more? Sir, good morning. Midshipman, third class, good ale, over to you. Where am I looking? There I am. Hi, good morning, sir. It was reported that last month you made a statement that the F-35 would be the last strike fighter that the Navy would ever buy or fly, the last man strike fighter. And it was made in the context of the Navy's shift from manned to unmanned platforms and aviation. As junior officers who may be considering a career in aviation as pilots or NFOs, what mid-career effects would that shift from manned to unmanned platforms have? And should we be concerned at all about choosing naval aviation as a career path? If you're in the Academy today, it'll have no effect on you, none.  Now, if you're two years old today, maybe. I mean, we're going to have the F-18 in the fleet for more than another decade. When the F-35s are completely bought, they're going to be in the fleet for several decades. What we're talking about, though, is we've got to move to unmanned. I mean, what I said was the F-35 ought to be and almost certainly will be the last man strike fighter. And we have got to move to unmanned. That's the future. We've got to move to unmanned not just ISR, not just refueling and things, but strike capabilities and autonomous strike capabilities. That's the future. You can put different G-forces on. You can have way more endurance and you don't lose a pilot when one of them goes down. But I'm not just talking about the strike fighter stuff.  It cost $200. You can print it on board ship on a 3D printer. One of the things that if we get into a fight you would do is go out and seed about 2,000 of those. They set up their own network. They can be a defensive network to make paths for ships or aircraft, manned aircraft today, to get through, to block the jamming or the electronic warfare that's coming from the other side. Or it can be offensive. It can be the jammer. It can be the electronic warfare going against the other side. They're one-way things. They don't come back and if you lose, somebody shoots down 500 of the 2,000, you still got a network and it's really hard to defeat. So we're the only service that does unmanned above the sea, on the sea and under the sea. And we've got to continue and accelerate those things or we're going to risk falling behind. If we fall behind in this area, it's really a seriously bad thing. Thanks, sir. Did I have somebody else standing up?  But did you have a question? Good morning, Secretary Mavis. First Class Stephen Arseneau. Will junior officers, particularly my class graduating now, have a more involved role in the enlisted promotion process? You'll have a, yes, a more involved role in terms of picking out meritorious sailors. Now the CO will be the one that makes the final decision on who to promote. But, you know, CO's has been my experience. I've almost always listened to the division officers and department heads on who to meritoriously promote. So, yes, you should have a much, you should have a larger say in which one you're saying, and you also should have a larger say in which ones you separate that aren't doing the job. All right. Thank you all again and good luck to you all that are going to be commissioned next week and to the rest of you, have a great summer. See you in the fall and beat Army.