From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SAP Sapphire Now 2018, brought to you by NetApp. Welcome, you're watching theCUBE on the ground at SAP Sapphire Now. I'm your host, Keith Townsend. We're in Steamy, Orlando. Great convention center, size of 16 American football fields. Got in about 3,000 steps this morning, you know what, I'm not here to talk about me, we're here to talk about the relationship between Microsoft and NetApp.  Yes, oh wow. Yes, I can kick box. You can kick some SAP butt. Yes, we do great solutions. So first off, let's talk about the NetApp-Microsoft relationship. As it pertains to SAP, what's the story behind NetApp and Microsoft? You know, the great thing about NetApp and Microsoft is we both have the same vision, right? For us, it's about our responsibility to help our customers innovate. And NetApp is a key partner for us and our ability to help our customers innovate and provide solutions around SAP. So let's talk about those solutions around SAP. One of the things that is getting pushed an awful lot is that SAP is now cloud ready. We can go to the cloud, we can go to these hyperscalers such as Azure or Azure, and swipe a credit card and get up and running with HANA. Tell us about that experience. How does that go exactly? Kevin? Oh yes, I don't know if you have heard but we just announced we released a 12 terabyte memory size virtual machine. Our HANA large instances can go up to 24 terabytes. So we ran the largest SAP workload in the world. There are so many customers, about 400 SAP on Azure customers. Personally, I work about 30 SAP on HANA, SAP on Azure customers. And over 77 or 80 SAP HANA on Azure customers. So it's very exciting. And we see that the trend is just picking up, the demand is picking up worldwide. Wow, so 18, Bill Modermic on stage yesterday gave the numbers around SAP HANA in general. 1800 customers, so Microsoft having 400 SAP HANA customers. Sure, just to be clear on that. So when we talk about customers that are sitting inside of Azure for their SAP landscape, that's both traditional NetWeaver based and HANA based. And the number that you have is closer to 70 of that larger number. The real important thing that customers are seeing today is when people think of cloud, they think about cost reduction. I'm going to save money because I'm going to be running equipment. The true value is in your ability to be nimble to innovate. So imagine a customer puts their SAP landscape inside of Azure and it's NetWeaver based. It's the older stuff, right? At any point along that journey, they can call us up and say, I want the infrastructure for HANA. They can innovate at will, right? If they buy hardware that sits on premise, that hardware is set to run that particular landscape. It's not set to run HANA. There's some opportunities for the customer to innovate using Azure. It's not just cost savings. It's around efficiencies and the ability to innovate at will. So let's talk about hybrid cloud scenarios around that very concept. We had another NetApp partner on that talked about the scenario in which customers have this desire to innovate quickly. Traditionally, in a traditional enterprise to your point, if I wanted to spend up a HANA workload, I'd have to procure hardware. I'd have to get my basis team to lay down the NetWeaver stack along with HANA. It could be a couple of months before I'm up and running. Then I could innovate, do my innovation. How does Microsoft help shorten that cycle? I can speak to it. We actually have another partner here demo there as well, Susie. HANA is run Susie right ahead and the different flavors of Linux and the running on Azure. Today, we are able to deploy the entire SAP landscape using automated scripts inside Azure. In 30 minutes, you have the entire SAP landscape deployed, including the large virtual machine M-Series for your HANA cluster, and you also have the ASCS, the central instances, and also the AFS cluster, as well as your application servers. All those things running your automation in a close speed in 30 minutes instead of three months. So one of the obvious advantages of cloud, in general, is this ability to get to agility. There's a concept that once I've innovated in the cloud, I know what the workload is, it's stable, it's not changing, that I bring that back in-house. Is that something that you're seeing? Are people continuing to run these workloads steady state in the cloud as well? I think they're going to run more so in steady state. We don't see them kind of moving it back. The idea that in a traditional SAP landscape is that everything is always on, since the lights are always on, why don't I have my own equipment as opposed to running just compute from a hyperscaler like Microsoft? And the reality is, is again, back to that notion of innovating. If I'm going to roll out, let's say, S4 on top of HANA, so you think about suite on HANA and then S4, I'm going to set up all of these test environments, right? Multiple test environments, versions of it as I roll out. I'm going to be really big for a short period of time, then I'm going to roll it out and shrink back down. Also, when I do upgrades, you think about it like, if you're doing payroll at the end of the month, I'm going to be big for short periods of time, so we call that bursting. And it's that bursting that allows you to continually to reduce costs you wouldn't bring back on-prem, where you can't burst, right? Makes sense? That makes sense. So let's talk about some of these business conversations that you've had with customers. What have been some of the primary drivers other than obvious agility? What are some of the conversations that you look at the broader Microsoft portfolio of solutions that you're able to bring into customer conversations? Two things come to mind, one of which is when you think about enterprise-class security across all domains, right? So right now we provide Azure for Office 365, that's an Azure tenant, right? And we can give you advanced security for that. Imagine that I can provide that same security for your SAP system. And I want to give you an example of the type of security solution. We have an intelligent IoT-based security model that sits inside of Azure that will predict hacks, right?  That kind of stuff sits inside of the cloud in Azure. So it's not just, again, I think the misnomer is it's just about cost savings, right? Because if it's just about cost savings, then at some point your depreciation models for on-premise hardware, as long as you can stay and not change, so not changing would save you a lot of money. Right. So that's why I get back to, it allows you to change without burden of impact. So, talking about change in the industry, we can't have a $7.5 billion acquisition and not talk about it on theCUBE. We kind of eat this stuff up. You guys acquire GitHub. Let's talk about the relationship of developers. One of the things that I haven't heard a lot, at least in conversations I've had on theCUBE so far this week, have been about the developer. Talk about the importance of the developer relationship and potential integrations with GitHub, if you can, in SAP. Oh, that's one of the theory topics I have. I came from a developer platform called Enable Agility, allow you to run the continuous development and continuous integration. And GitHub has been an integrated part of Microsoft solution already. And we are probably the largest contributor in the GitHub. And before Google and Facebook, if you rank it based on the history. Now we, the open source has been cultural after the SIDA takeover SEO. Has been our, we embrace open source and we actually, majority of our code right now deployment is in the GitHub and in SAP workload world. We, the ARM templates for automation templates, JSON templates and all the automation scripts we deploy it in the GitHub and we share with customers as a community and they actually use those scripts and do that deployment, continuously improve the scripts for automation. So continuous integration, continuous development is not a term that we hear a lot in the SAP world. As we're bringing these concepts from, I think, thought into reality with services such as GitHub to store DevOps scripts, automation scripts, what has been the business impact of being able to bring a continuous integration, continuous development practice to SAP which is usually not being. I'll give you a good example. For example, when Brad Berkeley mentioned earlier during the SAP landscape deployment, you have an N-plus one deployment, you want to do a test environment, you want to assemble troubleshooting things. Today with the scripts automation, you can spin up an entire system in three hours, four hours, including S4, including the demo system, including the business object, BI and all the things together. You can test this and then shut down the entire system and delay the resource group inside the Azure and then remove the system. Then we spin up as necessary. Also, we're working with SAP called Netscape Manager which allow you to clone the system inside the Azure and the scripts behind it, yes, actually it's a continuous integration, the development type of scripts allow you to replicate system fast, allow you to deploy another testing system or training system. It gives you open up a lot of modern deployment methodology to give you fast agility to the business. So, Microsoft, the ultimate platform company, one of the things that designates a platform company is that your partners basically make more money than you off the platform. Windows is a great example of a platform. So, you have platform, Azure is definitely becoming known as a platform and then we have NetApp, the data-driven company. Talk through the value of the NetApp data fabric, data-driven technology and platform as it pertains to the ability to have the same data operation strategy on-prem and in the Microsoft Cloud. Okay, and I'll give you an example. It's a lot of our customers, Brad sells a lot of NCP on edge or to many customers, I'm supporting those customers. Many of them, because NetApp has a super, very high-speed fastest management, snapshot management to data protection and data recovery and backup and also the DR capability. We, customer demand access, can we actually work with Microsoft in the cloud to use a similar technology? So, they deploy the NetApp on-tap inside Azure today and we're able to support AFS file services to file sync from on-prem to the cloud from one edge region to another region, leverage those on-tap snap mirroring and other technology as well. So, to enable, provide enterprise-level file sync, file protection, file recovery and a one-image replication as well. So, you guys are pretty good. I'm trying to throw you curveballs, but you're pretty much knocking them out the park. So, I'm trying to throw another curveball. Bring the hybrid IT story in for me from a Microsoft perspective when it comes to Azure Stack. How does Azure Stack play a role in the overall vision, whether it's edge, core or the extension into the cloud? How does Azure Stack play a role in it? It is Azure Stack, so. Yeah, okay. It's not for SAP, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, Azure Stack is a very important view, overall view from edge to the entire thing cloud. And we have the 50 regions globally. We have many data centers combined in the largest public cloud from region perspective, but still there are areas, for example, like a cruise ship and like a defense department. They may actually require Azure inside a prime type of technology stack. Azure Stack allow you to use the same interface, same view to deploy the technology. When you actually connect it, it can synchronize in your subscription. So it will allow you to have end-to-end access from your own premise into the cloud. And Microsoft has the perfect hybrid cloud strategy here and it allow you to do not only the eyes and past and also the size solution to our customers. So okay, let's bring the conversation back up a couple of levels and talk Brad. What have been the conversations here? After the keynote this morning, talking about the intelligent business, the conversations yesterday with Bill McDermick with the super high energy about SAP going into CRM, what has been the conversations with customers? Certainly, we've had a privilege for a lot of customer meetings where you've been here. I mean, these are very big, I mean, the great thing about SAP Sapphire is you get about 20,000 customer attendees here. Right. And they're the big ones. And at the C Suite, so we get to have some great conversations. The customer conversations have been around the notion of the responsibility that Microsoft and SAP have to them, right? To the point where I was speaking with the customer early and said, you have an accountability to help me be innovative, right? And that's a very important responsibility. A lot of that revolves around enterprise class security, right? A lot of that revolves around uptime, right? And latencies between those environments. What's my performance attribute? And are you going to be there with me forever, right? Now, when a customer chooses Azure and they choose, or they choose SAP and they choose Azure Portable, certainly it's really a three-part partnership. The partner or the customer, Microsoft and SAP as a partnership, right? And if I have to add a fourth one to that, it would be the systems integrator, right? Because in the case, Microsoft doesn't upgrade, migrate, move, or install anything. So we're going to lie on all the many partners that are here, right? To do that set of work everywhere from Accenture to Capgemini to Brave New World, right? That was ABC, right? I got those out, right? All of those partners are very key to both Microsoft and SAP to ensure customer success. So a lot of the meetings that we've had here have been with those partners and those customers. Well, to be a fly on the wall for those, I would love to go into more detail. We run out of time. I'm getting the wrap sign, but I would love to have a conversation around support, integration, way more areas than we have time for. We'll have to get you on theCUBE again. You're now on CUBE Veterans. From Orlando, this is Keith Townsend for the CUBE. Stay tuned or stay in the YouTube feed to find out more about what's going on about SAP Sapphire now on the ground. Talk to you soon.


a very warm welcome to this session, Mapping the World. My name is Stefan Mergthaler and I lead here at the World Economic Forum an effort to map global transformations and to provide tools for organizations and people to better understand their context around them. And it's in this regard that it's my absolute privilege to introduce to you Trude Siger, who is an artist, who is a professor, a curator, a journalist, in short a person who defies simple categories. He uses his mastery of calligraphy, of ink painting to bring to life the ancient craft of map making, not just as an incredibly beautiful form of art, but also as a powerful way of rediscovering the world around us and focusing on this aspect of connecting with the wider context of our environment. For those of you that are not familiar with his work, I can tell you you're in for a treat, not just because what we're about to see is incredibly beautiful but also because it conveys a very important meaning in the context of our meeting here. So in that regard, please join me in welcoming Trude Lausche on stage. Please, the floor is yours. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm sorry I will speak Chinese. My name is Qiu Zhijie. I come from Kafa, Central Academy of Fine Arts of China. I'm an artist. This is my work shown in UCCA. I call it Mapa Mundi. This is a Latin word. Mapa means map. Mundi means the world. In the past several decades, I've done several many works, different forms of photography, performance art, drama, and of course painting. You can see in this space different kind of forms of work. I'm always thinking about that there must be something in common which can integrate all of the different forms. Therefore, I did this work Mapa Mundi to try to find some logic between all of the different forms. In 2012, I got a Bergenheim nomination. They want to design a catalogue, six pages to introduce me. I'm just confused how it's impossible that they use six pages to introduce myself. Therefore, I designed several maps. First, I want to introduce me as an artist. The second map, a total art to introduce me as a professor. The third map to introduce me as a thinker. And the same year, I was invited by the Shanghai Biani to be the curator. Therefore, I designed another map as a tool of curatorship. So, using a map to do the curatorship in 2017, I was the curator for the Venice Biennale for the Chinese palace and I designed another map as the poster. So, to use something to integrate everything, different things. This is something that generated from myself. I have kind of an institution to inspiration to use something to connect everything. I was trained as a calligrapher in 1995. I copied the most classic literature, Lan Ting Ji Xu, using one single paper, but multiple times. And in five years, it turned into a totally black paper. And I have deep love and understanding of traditional tradition and culture. Sometimes it's misunderstood by foreigners. You can see this character means map or picture. But you can here see that the character, the form of this character actually is the map of the overlook of the Forbidden City of China. Actually, in ancient times, Chinese people started to use history to replace religion and miracle. This is a map in ancient times of China. You can still use it to rebuild the ancient palace. This is the map of Ma Wang Dui's tomb. You can see this is very detailed. And if you overlap this map and the current map of Changsha City, you can see all of the rivers and mountains are highly similar. This is a map of Tang Dynasty. On the right hand, you can see this is another map. You can see they even used the longitudinal and the vertical lines as a net to measure everything. And Zhang Heng in Dynasty Tang, he designed a machine, called it... And actually, his theory is a geocentric theory.  Actually, in ancient China, there's an ancient theory of geographic theory. Even in the theory of Zhang Heng, he proposed the idea of parallel universe. And this is a map of Kunlun Wang Xiong in 1902. And the painter designed this map and then gave it to the Emperor of China. And you can see there's an island. You can see the name is the island for the pirate. And also the map of Australia and Antarctic. And today, map can take us to everywhere where pirates are. Today, we use GPS. There are two models. The first model is a model of map. The second model is the first person angle or perspective. And this is the sense of perspective. So everything near you is very big and everything far from you is very small. So everyone's perspective is different. Therefore, we need something in common to integrate different perspectives. This is the painting called Solid Miles of Mountain Rivers in Dynasty Song. You can see something feeling as a map. And the Chinese people have a tradition to observe people and people want to concentrate the pains and feelings of others. Therefore, I started to paint maps and I started to think what is the definition of map? Map integrates our world as an integrity, as something integrated. And the map has limitations. But meanwhile, it also breaks limitations and borders to break something and connect something. And the map can also connect with another map to form a parallel. And therefore, I started to paint different maps, architect stories, games, art, emotion, memory, medicine, body, even food. They are in a very natural way to change from one story to another story and then I started to paint a map of some imagined animals, utopia or unicorns, etc. Something that doesn't exist. And also a religion, also. And then a map of travelers and also a map of utopia because sometimes travelers want to go to some places of utopia and utopia naturally brings the word of revolution. And actually, revolution has some underlying reasons of science. And you can also go deeper to a theory. And then this drives me to explore more the world and to understand how complex is the world. And one day, I entered the world, utopia, and also utopia in Chinese in my cell phone. And I found in China there are a lot of places called utopia. Sometimes it's just a coffee bar or sometimes it's an internet bar, etc. But not the utopia as it was used originally. Today, we use a lot of tools. And the tools are depriving the inner map. Everybody, we have a map internally. It's our understanding of the world. Our face and your heart, they are maps also. But today, we use navigation, GPS. But without these machines, we got lost easily. And we need to proactively to paint map. But we sell this right to others. We trust in the world that the map they provide to us is good enough so that we don't need to remember the root by ourselves. Actually, scientists use mice to do experiments. And actually, in the brain of the mice, there is a system which can paint maps. And this is the Lawrence of Nobel Prize by discovering this science. And we need to use a map to connect us and something out of our imagination. I want to stress the concept of world. In this world, there are gods, there are ghosts, or there's no country. By painting maps, I also managed to connect all of my works. I call it map of trying to understand your works. And I started to integrate all of my segmentations. And then I remember my idol, Da Vinci and Renaissance. I just thought how they were capable to connect everything around them. And they thought I should turn my map into something VR, visual reality. But I don't agree with them. I think they should be something conceptual. Then I work together with some scientists to develop AI map, mud map. They can capture our natural language and to generate something which can be visualized. And when we train the machine, the machine even can mimic our jokes. And yesterday, we imagined that whether in a QA session we can use our AI machine to answer some questions, to do some performance. And museums can use our maps to teach kids to paint maps. In rural areas of China, the kids used my maps to connect them with the outside world. This is the map I draw. The map for the development of arts, fine arts, and society in China in the past 40 years. More maps you have, more adventurous or more dare to explore the world. Maps can connect you with the strange things. And in some details, you can see the satellite, the spacecraft and also the goddess of China, Chang'e. And also this world is both related to Chinese miracle and Chinese spacecraft. And also you can see the deer and also the magic carpet of Aladdin and also everything of imagination. In this way, map brings us to strange things and connects connection between us and the strange world. And in the new way, we re-understand the world, re-interpret the world. And so the purpose of map definitely is not to build a border region and to protect one country from another country, but to profile the whole world. Any place only connected to a place far from this place, otherwise it will be a prison. 2011, I showed this work in an exhibition. I used maps to mimic the most primitive continent. Well, then it broke into different continents, Africa, America and Asia. But this is the map, very original shape of the world. I found all the words with the ISM, that means different isms. I find only one word cannot add ISM. And you can have very reason and screen reason or computer reason, but there is no word itself ism. Then I realized that everything is quite fragile in such a fragmented world because as the world further developed, everything is rebuilt. And we need to rebuild a lot of game roles and different sets of roles. So everything is changeable in the international relations or other areas. So that is why I think that we need to create new maps so as to build the connections among different things and let us better understand the new world. So creating new maps can create new ideas. Of course, it is not about international, it is about a world. It does not consist of China, UK, US, but instead it consists of human, animals or everything on the planet. Thank you very much. Very much for this impressive outline of your work and bringing it to this important message about integration. I think it is beautiful how you said maps help us create integrity in the world. I am sure this triggered a lot of questions in the audience. I am turning to you in just one second. I just use the privilege of the moderator to bring this back to some of the work that we do at the World Economic Forum which we call transformation maps. Some of you may be familiar with this, but in the same way as was just outlined, we try to help people discover the context of the areas that they are interested in and how different topics connect and how change propagates. My question to you would be, first of all, your assessment that historically we have been much better at looking at the world as an integral whole. What is it about the modern times that has led us to this very fragmented way of seeing the world? What is your assessment of that? Maybe as a message for the participants here, what is the one thing that you learned through your work exploring these maps in different topic areas that helps you build this broad contextual understanding of different topic areas that could be adopted by others in organizations? Thank you very much for your question. Actually, yesterday I spent some time looking at the maps by WF. I actually learned a lot through all these maps, so before I create a new map, I will first build a map on my computer and actually every map of mine is based on ink painting, so every map needs three months to be created. The maps in my computer and the maps that I eventually create look similar, so I create different catalogs and I build the system of knowledge. When I look at the maps of WF, I was very impressed because it's very logical and the connections between different things are quite clear. I think that it's very inspiring to me as well, so I can also, based on your maps, create my new maps. With such maps, we can have more concrete actions and we can respond accordingly. In addition, by using these maps, I can better realize the connections between different things and also we can do brainstorming. By brainstorming, we can find new approaches, creative approaches, so apart from the normal approach, we will also think it from another perspective, whether if we can find a new logic or we can look at the world from a different perspective. Both my maps as well as the logical maps of the farm, I think it actually has a similar foundation but it has different functions. As I make new maps, so during the process, I will make connections among different things, incredible connections. For example, tourism, it's connected with hotels where aviation and tourism and et cetera, and travelers. And travelers will be connected to the famous travelers in ancient times and in modern times, for example, Zhenghe or other foreign travelers as well. And also I will be connected to the modern time people as well. And also for the space, it will also be connected to this term. So during the whole process, we can connect multiple different things in different areas. And when I create the maps of the tools, I realize that some of the tools are for kitchen, for example, the ovens for making breads. Sometimes the ovens are huge and then it will connect it to a house. So whether the house is an architecture or is it a tool for our life. So I will be very puzzled and I need to figure out all the different concepts. For example, one thing, for example, clothes, may be used for clothes itself or it may be used for decoration and et cetera, so it has different functions. But when I create such connections, I will realize that the boundaries of things are actually not that limited because it can be put into different scenarios. And thus I can get my logic clearer and I can get it sorted out. Opening up to questions from the floor. Yes, sir. Please say just your name and where you're coming from. My name is Ahmed Wani. I had a question. So well, quick observation. So with more consumerization of internet devices and more penetration of internet devices and our changing work-life balance over the years, what we see is people are now more focused in the physical world rather than sort of have the time or the patience to kind of zoom out and look at the broader commonality between them and their neighbor. So I do feel that your maps provide that could make that possible. And now the example with JD's AI, which you showed, do you think that this, I could define it as a human-augmented AI platform, could be made possible at scale so that you could then enable all other people to also create similar maps digitally at scale, personalizable to them? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. A very good question. So I just emphasize that everyone should create their own maps and I do believe that everyone is capable of creating maps. But sometimes people just give the power of creating maps to Gao De or other map companies, but we forget to draw our own maps. I think that during the Asian times people actually will tell each other the map. For example, where are the wolves, where are the animals that they can hunt? So actually everyone has the capability to draw the maps of themselves. But right now a lot of mapping companies, they will give us their maps. So we are losing the capacity of drawing our own maps. But I do believe that everyone needs to draw their maps and as long as you regain such a capacity, then we may not need the mapping devices and we can find our way ourselves. I think that it's very important for us to have our own maps and then we can have our own capacity. So as for the JD tool, maybe in the future I can better use such a tool. For example, when I am making presentations, maybe some AI tools can create a logic map based on my presentation. So if that can work, it will be very helpful and then it can help us better understand between each other. For example, we know the context and the AI will help us create the contents and the logic map so we can understand each other based on different contexts, tongue contexts. So by this way we may better communicate with each other. Of course that is my dream, which is not realized yet. But we do hope that AI can help us create the data sets as well as the idea sets because in the future AI will be able to catch the words or catch the images and it will create the logic maps and the presentations automatically in the future. And we need also to control the information flow because if there is too much information, people will be overwhelmed. But if we start to use such an AI tool and we can train the AI tools with our own maps, then everyone will have our own understanding of the world. And now the algorithms are improving so I do believe that in the future it will be realized. Over there. Good morning. My name is Marie M. Jam. I'm a young global leader and I'm so happy you said that we need to create a new map for the world. I organize event Mapatons. They call Mapatons for technology. We get young girls to design their own world and we call it Mapatons. My question to you is, I've seen one of the images you show about refugees and the world economy forum and us, the young global leaders, this month we will be going to Kakuma refugee camp where there are 200,000 refugees, 18,000 of them are women and girls. So my question to you is, would you be able to design a world display map for the world to know what's happening around the world? Thank you. Yes, I agree with you that map is a tool and actually I show you a map of traveler. One small part is for refugees and one type of refugees means refugees are not voluntarily moved. They are refugees and map is a tool. It can allow us to profile refugees. Definitely, it is yes. The answer is positive. And for example, you told me that Mr. Chiu can you draw a map for refugees? Another people come to me that can I draw a map for green food and I am driven by these aspirations to enter one another crazier and crazier works. I think I should not be the only person who draw maps. We should use something that make it a common tool. Everybody can use it, can share it. But of course, this technology is in process in development by us. That means how to involve more people to draw more maps. I am very interested in your idea to draw a map for refugees. You mentioned young girls. Of course, genders are different. I studied, for example, how gender influence the way people show direction for others. Sometimes girls got lost easily because maybe their girlfriends are too responsible. Always tell their girlfriends where to go. And girls show direction. For example, first you will see a green tree, then you will see a red house, and then you will see something, and then you will arrive. But males will tell the direction. For example, at a nine o'clock direction you will see a red house and then walk to two o'clock direction and you will see a green tree for 200 kilometers and then we arrive. And I think different genders do have different ways to show directions. And between people, there are differences. But if a group of people draw a map of refugees, definitely it will have its own features. And so the perspective is very interesting. Brilliant. Thank you. We have time for one more quick question. And I take the lady in front here. And then a very quick answer from her. From Beijing University. Thank you. Professor Qi, very good. Oh, great. I was thinking, is this based on Chinese culture? It's based on Chinese culture, but it's based on Western civilization, Western culture. Would it any difference? What? About the fine art visual style, I combine very ancient ink and water painting styles. But of course I also use some styles of European printing, printmaking, especially I learned, I was trained as a printmaker. I used a lot of styles from ancient European printmaking styles or techniques. I think mapping, map works. And it also can improve the communication in ancient times much more than our expectation. The maps of travelers, you know, this is not knowledge from Europe. It's not knowledge from Asia. It's not knowledge from Arabian world. So it's knowledge generated by other people. And there's a series of different opinions that who discovered America firstly. So, you know, there are different opinions on this. And my thought is, we need to forget the difference between West and East. Because now we are entering the world a global perspective. Thank you. And thanks to all of you. Round of applause for Shun. Thank you.