Everybody forced here ripping at 2021 prism football hobby 3 box number 24 Random teams. I'll leave the results on screen for you for just a moment You could always find them at latent sports cards calm And I did drop a link in chat as well. Good luck everybody. Let's see what we got Yeah, I may be like maybe something for me like an Ortiz like that barrel or bat-knob or something would be really cool Bergeron PSA 10 young nuns would be nice Ricky's Tommy tremble Kaderius Tony purple power Broncos von Miller to 49 and Green scope Broncos rookie Otto Givante Williams to 75 nice hit Denver. There you go. Love the scope Right illegal. That's a card that doesn't gonna like Drastically go up and or down in value for the most part you would imagine Nixon and Palmer rookies blue purple ice Taysom Hill Saints to 225 and emergent rookie Tray Lance Niners Wildcard points random to all the ends Brady Rookie's Patrick Jones Amir Seth Mar set purple power Colts rookie Dale Odeyingbo It's a 49 rookie Kyle Pitts Jamie Newman purple ice Browns rookie Greg Newsom to 225 and silver for the Steelers Eric Ebron Lion's rookie Amon Ross St. Brown Hunter long we got a snakeskin. It's a case hit and it is bills Thurman Thomas the Hall of Famer nice one bills Good stuff case hit on the snakeskin Digs there Hoco Dazz Newsome purple ice Cardinals Kyler Murray Attitude 25 and silver for the Raiders Derek Carr Anyone else in chat have a grail that they want or they have Eskridge Joe Tryon blue wave for the Jets Curtis Martin to 199 fireworks Ripken got John Tray Lance rookie Christian Barmore red wave Niners Debo Samuel out of 149 and silver rookie Chargers Sante Samuel, Jr. I Also needed to get some Blake Bortles Bortles PC stuff got Najee Harris rookie for the Steelers Elijah Mitchell Niners Got orange wave bills Devin single Terry to 60 The entry Lance break rookie insert one of our local customers is putting together like a UCF Like football like signed Jersey room. It's pretty cool. It's got like Dante Culpepper Gabriel The UCF jerseys to it's like Culpepper Gabriel Davis. I don't know who else he's going after away and bash them Hyper for the Bucks Hardy Nickerson to 175 and silver for the Titans for Sean Evans. Oh Nice Chad. That's I mean that's a big one Still have it I'm assuming then Our rookies are the Yingo Jolari red wave rookie Cardinals Ron Dale Moore to 149 print line across it there for the Cardinals Yeah, I just you to get some Blake Bortles stuff because uh This grew up in the same area went to school together and all that same college. We pay Frank Zach Wilson Purple Michael Hartman, Jr. Chiefs to 125 and purple power height Niners Brandon. I youth to 49 What a rookie card of every single Laker from the oath from the 2000s team That'd be pretty sick Like I have some Jameer Nelson cards Few Dwight Howard's right how it's a bit more expensive. His value isn't like low by any means Guessing Dwight Howard's a Hall of Famer. I mean he had like eight years or so start of his career where he was a like arguably the best center in the league so He's a curious case rookie Dolphins Jalen waddle Purple ice Bucks Hardy Knickerson to 225 and silver for Washington Logan Thomas. I say yes, but I mean I'm kind of biased I'm a magic fan. I've seen him like just be completely dominant for long stretches Got terrace Marshall, Jr. Jermart Jefferson blueway for the Lions Jeff Ocuda to 199 and silver for the Jets Denzel Mims And even then he's also had like the longevity to He did one with the Wakers. Yeah Rondale more rookie Hyper for the Giants sake one Barclay to 175 and silver for the Steelers rookie Najee Harris Yeah, that'd be cool to Luca. I Would like to own a low of baseball logo man for sure. I Love him for it to be like one of my favorite Red Sox players But even if it's not like I'd still probably like it that's on Evans and Phillips Red Wave Raiders Charles Woodson to 149 and Emergent rookie Jags Trevor Lawrence. Yeah, I have dude. I bought a Jameer Nelson auto when I was at the airport Go in LA a few weeks ago Rookies Felton and Harris Xavier Rhodes blue ice to 99 Colts and red wave rookie Otto bears Cleal Herbert to 149 Not like a huge auto, but it was like two bucks. I was so happy. I Pay more to ship it to me rookies Jibril Cox Chuba Hubbard orange for the Falcons Michael Vick to 149 and Fireworks is a Dalvin cook do Jameer was really good. He was one of the first point guards to like Shoot the ball pretty pretty consistently like the pick and roll with him and Howard was deadly Got gold vile in this pack Well in big gold vinyl come on now Packers rookie Eric Stokes Micah Parsons gold vinyl Rookie Giants Cadarius Tony boom Heck yeah five of five There you go The New York football Giants as Chris Berman would say Big one there. We'll get that magged All out Christian McCaffrey And St. Joe's legends Yeah, the waltz are paid in cleat. I want to pull one of those cleats out of flawless for sure I think the paper would be the coolest Rookies Greg Newsom is even Collins purple for the Panthers Brian Burns Out 125 and Jerry Judy hype when's the last time anyone actually had to be told it was the New York football Giants, dude The New York Giants football team moved in like what the 40s or 50s time Brady for the Bucks Like none of our lifetimes Got Pat's rookie remandry Stevenson on was a rick a purple rookie Kenan Wangu Vikings color match to 125 and silver bucks Levante David got rookies Trey sermon Jalen camp green scope chiefs Daniel Sorenson to 75 Mary Kendrick Some of them I don't know if they're gonna be Title the one-to-one. I know there's only like one of a few of them so they will be but there's like two farb cleats I don't know if they'll be one of like two different cleats or it's like one of two You know, I imagine it's one of two Vaughn Hollands yummy brown hyper rookie bears Dazz Newsome to 175 and silver Broncos auto Bradley Chub Not number Yeah, football team is much better than commanders for sure Rookie's Kylan Hill Jamar Chase Purple Ice Bucks Hardy Nickerson to 225 and Najee Harris new recruits rookie There has been like five Hardy Nickerson cards numbered in this break No, no Daryl Armstrong. I don't find some Daryl Armstrong cards Daryl Armstrong, I gotta get some T Mac but T Mac is quite a bit more expensive than uh All of my favorite magic players Wait a bit more expensive Although his magic stuff is a bit cheaper since it's obviously not rookie Atwell Darby red wave Cardinals rookies even Collins to 149 and auto for the Chiefs Dante Hall speed demon To 99 Yeah, I got like when I was younger like in the early 2000s Berman was the coolest and Then as I got older, I'm like, okay the act is tired Um fields rookie bears us who core moa orange for the Ravens Marques Brown to 249 and break trail lance rookie Yeah, haven't seen a red-white blue either Luca Maybe tonight's the night we pull the cleat or something Travis eats the end rookie for the Jags Gary Brightwell blue wave Panthers DJ morta 199 and sober Niners Elijah Mitchell rookie Sup, Bradley Washington hogs. Yeah, they should have gone something like that rookies Pat Friar muth Sean Slater red wave for the Eagles of Vontae Maddox To 149 Mack Jones rookie emergent hats Phil Sims. Yes At least I have good memories of of Chris Berman Got rookies Elijah Mulden Caleb Farley purple power Cowboys Michael Gallop to 49 and red wave rookie auto nine or some nice one there Elijah Mitchell to 149 I don't I think Collinsworth is fine Rookie is McMath. It's Patrick orange Titans Jeffery Simmons at 249 and Calvin Ridley fireworks mainly because I think like He's self-aware about things like that at least like the slide He knows the slide is a thing the Chris Collinsworth slide rookies Nick Bolton Kellen Mond orange bears Andy Dalton to 249 and Slover for the Packers for Sean Gary Dude, that's awesome Kevin dude team act. Oh my god when I because that's when I was playing basketball and It was when I would like watch magic games every single night Do Larry Roundtree the Vontae Smith rookie for the Eagles Purple ice jet CJ Mosley to 225 and silver for the Jags Marvin Jones, Jr. Every like Christmas or whatever. I would just want like magic tickets It's all I wanted Or like a magic jersey, you know, it was something to do with the Orlando magic When I was in like 4th grade through like 7th grade No, a great Vontae Williams rookie for the Broncos orange rookies Steelers Najee Harris to 249 You go Pittsburgh Lockdown Jason Taylor Yeah, without the Collinsworth slide, I would look I would look at him a lot differently with the Collinsworth slide is iconic Hyper for the Jags James Robinson to 175 and Mack fireworks. There you go. Pats. I do not have a lot of magic that you know Not yet. Anyway Joe burrow PS2 Quinn miners blue ice rookie 49ers Trey Lantz boom 45 of 99 Yeah, buddy Congrats Ryan M get that magnet course silver for the Steelers Cam Hayward. Yeah, I have tattoos In fact, I need more money for tattoos Stevenson Nwangu blue ice Eagles Miles Sanderson 99 Nick Chubb a Points card random than a auto recap. Yeah, I do need some T Mac magic cards I need some Dwight Howard to can always use more Jameer Nelson. There's always room for more Jameer Nelson Beast Some Rashard Lewis, maybe I'll card points random to all five and four nine times whoever's up top gets the points one two three four five six seven eight nine Go to the Chargers Autos in big color here. We got Elijah Mitchell Niners Dante Hall Chiefs Bradley Chuck Broncos Khalil Herbert bears green scope Javante Williams Broncos is 75 Oh, yeah, it's her cool. It's her who's the best man. They're all the best They're all the greatest players of all time in my opinion. Thurman Thomas snakeskin bills And to me, they're the best player ever, you know gold vinyl rookie Jags Kaderius Tony to five and Blue ice rookie Niners Trey Lance to 99 Good three boxer. Thanks again, everybody. We've got another three boxer up next


What are you doing? What happened? Vinnie, I have almonds for you. I put them in your special place. Vinnie? Stop now. No. Flighters and hatchlings. My name is Marlene McCohen and this is my fascinators. That's what it's called, yes or no. Fascinators? Yeah, like the hat with the... What, Vinnie? You don't even know, is it or not? Oh, fascinators. Feature? The feature on my head today. The feature on my head today is none other than brown doll. But tomorrow we will have a new feature on my head. Hi, Bella. How are you? Hey. Who's that? Expert here. I'm usually used to working with feet. Stokes that have their buttons already attached. I don't like it rushing over your lap. Like that one didn't even... Nothing happened, just noise. Oh. Guys, I put Brando away while the stove is on. And she's just sitting right here. What are you doing? What are you doing? When the food is done, you get to come out, okay? Just because it's hot right now, okay? You're not my smartest one right now. Oh, I love her.  I tell George that I don't need him anymore. What is this? What kind of meal is this? This looks like a Malawak without a... It tastes like I made it in the Israeli desert. Not kidding, on school trips in Israel, that's what we did. I was like, when I lived in Jersey, we went into the ice skating rink. What is that? You said a little bowl. That's a little bowl. This is like a... This is not even a bowl. This is... You shouldn't have said little bowl. I found the littlest bowl I could find. This is like for our derbs. And what am I going to do with a spoon? Forging control. I mean, it's like a fork, no? What are you doing? I'm putting in a barstool bag, because I think it's their bedtime. Ty's not here to remind me. Do you want to explain to the sniffer army how I got such good friends that know how to put the birds to bed? Let's see. You attract what you are. No, that's really sweet. I have random... How did you learn to put the birds to bed? I learned like a decade ago how to put the birds to bed. And then you just kept... You didn't stop getting birds. So it just applied how you put one to bed, like how you put them all to bed. And what makes you take this initiative to put the birds to bed right now? Because these are your children.  It's so funny, because like I think what I was going for with asking you that is a lot of people ask me like, what do I do when I go out of town?  Right. Count on it. Count her on it. What would you suggest to people that have birds? Look how excited she is about her. Let's ask Nora if she's available to be rented out. Look, look, they love their hot water. Can you imagine if there was a... Is there like a bird nanny that like travels around?  Well, like a traveling one? Like, they were that known. I think what sometimes people are wondering, what would your advice be? Come closer. You're blurry. Why? I just bring blur. You just bring blur.   She's been worried. At Tracy called me.  I want to see what my friend's advice would be. I would imagine it's how you get like a pet sitter. There's not like a serp's bird nanny. Oh, but Tracy... Sometimes I have to explain things to her in a certain way. Happy idea. And now Brando's yelling at you. Brando's like, sometimes people ask me like, what do you do when you're away? Right? You want to come yell on camera so that everyone can see your attitude problem? Um, well, I mean, I... I'm also having a brain freeze, but it's not about that.  I mean, we know when you're going out of town, I like help you pack.  Who do you have? Like, what do you... So basically what you're saying. And then we just kind of show up and do it. This is not a good example. I don't think you've actually ever asked. Unless there was like an emergency, like Jenna, like Jenna was gone and you were gone. And like Sylvia was in a ramp. That there's like an emergency, but normally we just tell you, Nora's got these nights of these nights. And then Nora and I communicate to each other. It's really funny because you're kind of making it look like... I could just leave and then people will just figure it out for... No, first of all, you don't even like leaving. You don't like leaving. So it's a rare thing when you travel. And a lot of the traveling is sometimes done with me. So... You're funny, Brad. Jenna, Jenna, you know, but then she got a boy from... I think the question... She got to school. And she got a sorority. The question is, hold on. That's our AVNT right there. Show what tea that is. What you brew in the posh city pets. She makes the cutest teas. Of course, she also makes our tea. It's like one of those quick advertising breaks. I know. You're looking perfect for it. Hi. Let me tell you about what you brew. If you're not brewing this, what you brew in. Oh my God. Here, do this one. But we drink it all because we love it so much. You know how you know that a tea is really good? You've run out. If you haven't tried Jersey's Birthday Blend I've cam wheeled the biscuits and red raspberry leaves. What's she brewing? Cause he ain't brewing this. Oh my God. Why didn't he turn out to be a commercial actor? Do this one. Remember I bombed that commercial? I got a call back. You didn't bomb it. Bomb it would mean you didn't do well. Oh, I crashed it. Crashed it. I had an audition for something once and he and her, we just gallivanted all day together every day. Right? What are we doing today? Oh, I don't know. I got an audition. Okay, I'll come. So I was like, you should just go in. Just write your name. What do they care? They don't know who they have on their list. She got a call back and I didn't. It was so funny. And she didn't want to call back cause she was scared she'd be found out. I'm like, they obviously wanted you. What do they care? Here's from on a romantic spicy evening. Well, Vinnie's Brew will bring you just that. What's your brew in Vinnie's Brew? Peppermint and Rose. Cause let's be honest. If you're not brewing Vinnie's Brew, what's your brewing? Oh my God. Right now, right now posh city pets has found their new models. Hi. Can we book Tracy because she came up with what? Cheap brew. Yeah, mercy. I'm gonna have a right your jingle. But be careful cause Cody thinks you're like guarding the sink. Oh, did we forget about you, Bella? Oh, hey, what you doing? What you doing? What you doing? What are you doing over there? Louncing. What is this mess you guys made, huh? I got a problem. I need to get these boxes out of the hallway, but they're all too heavy for me. Oh guys, this is my new yoga instructor. Tracy lost 400 pounds in one year. No, four. I was like, what, 150? What, no. 270 minus 120. Minus the baby. When the baby came out, plus this. 150 pounds. You lost 150? Yeah, it was 270 when I gave birth to Bella. She's my new fitness instructor. She keeps me. All she really does is ban me from eating. Makes me like these weird little tortillas that have nothing in them. She doesn't let me have my coffee, so there's no starbots. She makes her out of rice. You like to have your coffee, so it looks pretty good. Obviously, I'll serve carrot, I'll serve. And I don't have anything more for her. But solved a lot of my problems. So results for Tracy! What are you doing? What happened? I put a bin in your special place. What are you doing, Vinny? Vinny, no. Vinny, Tracy has almonds for you. Watch what happens if I yell at Vinny. Okay, watch this, watch this. It's really funny. Vinny! I said no, Vinny. Vinny, I didn't, I don't think so. Vinny, I'm warning you. Vinny, I said absolutely not.


Migraines are a debilitating condition characterized by severe headaches accompanied by nausea, sensitivity to light, and other symptoms. Recent research suggests that certain molecules may be involved in triggering migraines, including calcitonin gene-related peptid, CGRP. However, many people still experience migraines despite taking medications designed to block CGRP activity. In this review, we discussed several other potential targets for migraine treatment, such as nitric oxide, phosphodiesterase, 3 and minus 5, potassium channels, transient receptor potential, TRP, channels, and acid-sensing ion channels. These targets have been studied in animal models and humans, but no specific drugs have been developed yet. Nonetheless, these targets offer hope for developing new treatments for migraine sufferers who don't respond to current treatments. This article was authored by Linda Alhassani, Deirdre M. Boucheri, Hannah Creny, and others. We are article.tv, links in the description below.


Well, welcome everybody to another of our hydroterror webinar series. We've had quite a lot of webinars now and continuing to grow in popularity. So thanks very much for attending today. Today, the topic is wastewater management, monitoring and reporting insights. And we're very fortunate to have Matt Shanahan, who's a principal with RMCG, who are a consultancy that do a huge amount of work in this area and who we've collaborated with extensively over the years on various projects in this area. Matt's involved quite a bit with the new regulations that are coming out and he's going to refer to that as well in his presentation as well as the impact of the new EPA Act. We're also going to talk a bit about some case studies. So there's a picture of Matt. Matt's background. He's based in Bendigo and he is a principal in this area. He's got over 20 years experience working predominantly in the area of recycled water, but also particularly around sort of agricultural applications of that and also dealing with organics such as biosolids. As I mentioned, we work extensively together, Hydrotera and ourselves, where we do the sort of field data collection and monitoring systems side of things and they do the consultancy. Just before we get started, we love having questions and certainly we've had a lot of questions being asked over the last few webinars, which is fantastic. If you want to raise a question, you use the Q&A button at the top of your screen and you type that in and at the end of this webinar, I will read out those questions and Matt and myself will endeavour to answer them. When we run out of time, we will send you emails responding to your question if we don't get time to get to it today. Why is Hydrotera doing these webinars? Well, we like to generate awareness and share knowledge, particularly in the areas of monitoring methodologies and technologies, but also really about how they can be applied to improve operational efficiency and environmental outcomes. We see an important role of a business like Hydrotera to train the broader market in technologies that are emerging and we think it's really important that we also gain an understanding of industry needs from these and that's where Q&A is so important. So today, you've got myself, Managing Director of Hydrotera, who's going to present towards the end of this presentation and introduce Matt. Matt's going to tell us a bit about what wastewater is, what methods there are by which wastewater can be used and key considerations for wastewater management. Finally, we're going to talk about monitoring and reporting obligations and then I'm going to talk to a case study where we've worked together. So I'm going to pass control over to Matt now and let him take us forward. Thanks very much, Matt. Great. Thanks, Richard. And good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining in on the webinar. I hope you're all well, particularly those of us that are in Victoria and New South Wales and have been dealing with the storm that's come through and other states as well. I hope you're all safe and surviving that okay. Thanks for the intro. It's great to be here talking about wastewater or recycled water. As Richard said, I've spent the best deal of 20 odd years in and around recycled water and looking for sustainable ways to make sure we can utilize it as best as we can. And I'll share with you today some of my thoughts and looking forward to any questions that you've got and we can pick through those towards the back end of the webinar. So I thought we might start off with just for some definitions to set the scene. For those that are close to the industry, you'll know that there can be a lot of discussion about whether it's wastewater or whether it's recycled water. At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters too much and you're free to call it whatever you like. From my point of view, I prefer recycled water as the term. And the reason for that is I think it gives a nice feel for the resource that it is and the value that we can get from it. That it is a really good water source out there that we need to make the most out of. And I like the idea that recycled water is something we're putting back into our systems and getting the most out of. That third dot point you can see on the screen there, it's actually a definition that I've taken from the new EPA recycled water guidelines that have been released. This is Victoria, an EPA that have been released in the last few months known as Publication 1910 or Publication 1910. And I think it sums up really quite neatly what I'm going to be talking about today and referring to, which is water that's been derived from sewage systems or industry processes and treated to a standard that is appropriate and fit for its intended use. There's a couple of really important terms in there. I think set the scene for our discussion this afternoon. So it picks up that we're talking about recycled water from sewage systems. So municipal treatment plants and even trade waste treatment plants where they feed in. But the industry is a really important part of our wastewater industry as well. So dairy processing wastewater and abattoirs, even some sailyards, a whole range of things. There's lots of industry out there that are producing a form of recycled water, which they then need to find a management option for. So it's not just our larger municipal treatment plants that are dealing with some big volumes in our towns and cities. There's lots of other forms of recycled water out there, which is just as important and that we're consistently looking for really great solutions for. The last dot point is an important one that we're not talking about on farm effluent today. So we're not talking about dairy effluent or pigary effluent. Whilst there are lots of similarities. So when we come to managing those sources of water, we're still worried about nutrients and salts and sodicity and pH and potential impacts on the environment and volumetric loadings, et cetera. But it is an important distinction that we're not dealing with farm effluent today. We are talking about industrial recycled water and then also sewage from the municipal treatment plants. Why is that important? There can be a lot of confusion at times between the on farm effluence and the other wastewater or recycled water sources. And they've got different makeups, particularly from a microbiological point of view, which can really impact on what their end users look like. And whilst those similarities are there, they're better dealt with separately. Okay, for some reason, I can't seem to go into the next slide, Richard. Well, I'll try to come from here. Let's see how we go. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Okay, so let's talk about recyclable water management options and the ways that we have available to us to manage this resource. Increasingly, recycled water is being seen as a valuable resource with lots of potential uses. And it's clearly that we've seen over the last 20 years throughout the industry that our advancements in the number of recycled water schemes have been increasing year on year and becoming a lot more sophisticated. And that's a fantastic thing. We know that particularly in Australia, we're a pretty dry place. Water is a really precious resource and we've got to be making sure we're being as efficient with it as we possibly can. But that also means that we're using our alternative water sources to their fullest potential. And there's a great range of uses for recycled water. It's not currently invoked in Australia, but we do know other parts of the world that have got very clear direct and indirect potable reuse schemes, which is a really great thing. And I'd forget for that, of which I am. We've seen that a lot of places that have been struggling with dry conditions and drought conditions have set up these indirect and direct potable reuse schemes where we've got confidence in the technology and our treatment standards that we can treat our recycled water sources to the suitable standard and use them for drinking water. So that's something that's happening. There's a lot of energy for that all around the place. And who knows what the future of that will be for in Australia. Hopefully, as I said, from my opinion, we move in that direction. A large part of what we do with our recycled water sources is irrigation. We've got a range of irrigation schemes that operate all across different parts of Australia. So broad acre irrigation, so dairy and some forms of cropping and beef and sheep grazing. Lots of large schemes where irrigating either recycled water direct to pastures and crops or we're mixing it or shanding it with other sources of irrigation water and using it really productively to drive agriculture and get great outcomes. Similarly, in a range of horticultural settings, depending on the quality of the recycled water, there's lots of different things we can do. So when we talk about class A, so the highest standard of recycled water that we've got, we can use that on really fresh varieties of horticulture through to orchards and vineyards and a whole range of things. Lots of you would also be familiar with recycled water used for sporting grounds and golf courses. Golf courses have been adopting recycled water for irrigation for a number of years and doing it really well and getting really good outcomes and similarly, lots of our footy ovals, soccer ovals, et cetera. Soccer pitchers are being used using recycled water to make sure they've got the best turf conditions possible for that facility and drive really great sporting facilities. And then also end of our public open spaces, our parks and gardens and that type of thing, particularly with the millennium drought that took hold across lots of eastern Australia during the early 2000s. We saw lots of advancements in recycled water schemes being piped back into a lot of places and used to green areas of the community which when things are dry and there's not much drain around and the droughts at its worst, those green areas can offer a real salvation area for communities to get to and be outside in more comfortable conditions than just dry parklands. We also saw during the drought, that millennium drought and other times recycled water being used for lakes and wetlands which again really adds to the amenity of our towns and provides really great focal points and it's a good use for that water depending on what the active uses on the waterway are. We know that recycled water is being used back through industry so cooling towers, a whole range of things, some wash downs depending on what the quality of the water is like. It gets used for dust, suppression and road making. In certain areas there's an ocean outfall that occurs with recycled water but the one that I thought might be worth spending a little bit of time on which is getting into prominence a lot more is this river creek and stream discharge. We've seen over the years that some recycled water treatment plants have had what we call a licensed discharge where they've been able to discharge the treated recycled water into the stream or creek or river depending on the size of it but increasingly what we're seeing is that it's not really a discharge it's actually being used to benefit the flows in that waterway. A lot of our creeks and streams and rivers one of the single greatest things it's impacting them is lack of flow. Farm dams dotted across the catchment climate change more abstraction of water in our growing urban populations means that a lot of our waterways have reduced in flow and so there's a great opportunity where we can get recycled water into the right quality to be able to release it into these waterways and drive some really fantastic benefits by supporting the aquatic environment and drive a better ecosystem. So that's been happening for quite a while there was a scheme that we were involved with working with Galvin Valley water so in Central to Northern Victoria putting recycled water back into the Killmore creek so treated sewage from the Killmore wastewater treatment plant being treated to a really high standard and being put back into the creek at specific times throughout the year to drive environmental flows to improve what that waterway was like and to get much better outcomes. One of the interesting things with that project was that we worked with the local catchment management authority and the landholders to offset any of the nutrients that were going to be released to the waterway so there's a whole lot of work done with farmers in the region to increase riparian vegetation to fence stock out of the waterways and to improve some other practices that were impacting on the creek so that was effectively neutralising and providing better creek outcomes and neutralising the nutrients that were being released into the waterway and therefore driving an overall much better environmental outcome. So I think with a dry climate we're going to look to see a lot more opportunities for that in the future as well as those traditional uses of recycled water around irrigation and amenity lakes and some of the industrial reuse that we're seeing. Next slide, thanks Richard. I thought it'd be worthwhile if we spend a bit of time looking at the different components of what goes into recycled water management and in the first case when you look at this slide it might be a bit overwhelming and daunting to see the number of different components that we need to think our way through but in a lot of cases it's relatively straightforward and it's common sense that we're dealing with and if we've got some good data to support us along the way then we can make some really good decisions and make it work but ultimately we're thinking about water quality how much water we are looking after so the volume what our receiving environment looks like and as part of that receiving environment the community where it exists and the potential impacts on health how we're going to set up a good scheme from a monitoring and reporting point of view to make sure we know what's going on but also from a continuous improvement point of view that we can drive really good outcomes and make sure that we're managing the recycled water the best way that we can our people we can never forget our people they're integral to us and they're integral to our really well-developed recycled water management schemes so have our people got the right skills what sort of training do we need to provide and from a professional point of view hopefully those people on the webinar and it's certainly true for Richard and I that we've been able to drive a really great career out of this industry and there's lots of opportunity for that into the future so providing a really strong pathway for people to get involved in the industry and have a really fulfilled work life and provide really great outcomes from an environmental management point of view and a resource management point of view the economic viability of our schemes is also critically important they can be costly at times sometimes for irrigation schemes we're piping the water some distance to get it to the farmland or to access the amount of farmland that we need to make the scheme work so it's really important that if we're going to spend a lot of money on capital and have some considerable operating costs that the end use that we're supplying the recycled water to is economically viable and they're going to be able to use the recycled water and thrive over the next 10, 20 beyond years and that's what that last box there is talking about the win-win outcomes ultimately we want to be using recycled water for its highest potential value and to make sure that everyone so that's the producer of the recycled water the end user of the recycled water and the community drive really great outcomes the water quality will really dictate what we can do and we generally talk about different classes of recycled water particularly in Victoria but other states are similar so class A being our highest standard which can be used for uncontrolled public access so if we're going into a park where the community access to that park all the time that's a class A standard also to some of those fresh varieties of fruit and vegetables there's some where it's still not appropriate but lots where it is the second class is class B where it can be used for sporting sites predominantly it also has some advantages for dairy farms particularly we've got lactating animals and then class C class of recycled water up until recently class D was the other source of recycled water we had available to us but it's now just classes A, B and C in Victoria with the release of the new guidelines publications 1910 and 1911 which had been with us for a couple of months so the class of the recycled water is really driven by the microbiological quality we use E. coli as the reference but also look at viruses and protozoas by the time we get into looking at class A recycled water so that class can dictate how the recycled water can be used but I can't stress the importance of also understanding the other parameters of your recycled water so what's the salinity going to be like what are the nutrients like are there any toxicants in terms of heavy metals emerging contaminants so having a really great understanding of what your recycled water quality looks like having some good monitoring data to support that and then identifying through the guidelines that are available where the recycled water can and can't be used is a really important first step but then thinking about your volume thinking about the receiving environment so what impact am I potentially going to have on soils how am I going to look after the beneficial uses of surface waters groundwater or the marine environment making sure I'm not impacting on flora and fauna or cultural heritage so we have indigenous heritage but also some parts of European heritage as well but certainly cultural heritage is an enormous part of the planning that goes into recycled water schemes these days and that's been a really great increase in focus over the last years so there's a range of things that need to be thought about but certainly understanding the data having good information that enables you to make good decisions can be really important we roll to the next slide Richard there's a few things that I've learnt over the last 20 years of recycled water management which I want to impress on you now we don't have long enough today to talk in enough detail about all the components but I think if you take these practices on board you're going to maximise the possibility of having a really fantastic recycled water scheme the first one is that successful schemes aren't set and forget and what I mean by that is that they take ongoing work and they take consistent resourcing to make them work a key part of that is communication really strong communication between whoever's producing the recycled water and your end user sometimes it's the same organisation sometimes the end user could be a third party but having really great communication which talks about the quality of water that's consistently being developed how much water is available what it's being used for is it being used in accordance with the management plan it's an ongoing job and sometimes what we see is where schemes start to fall over is because the resourcing just simply isn't there to make it work and it's an old adage little things done consistently over a long period of time can make things work a whole lot better rather than putting something in place forgetting about it and coming back a lot later down the track I need to realise there's a whole lot of problems that have occurred the second one is there's no substitute for good data I can't express this highly enough either know your recycled water inside out we were touching on it on the previous slide understand your microbiological quality understand the salinity understand the nutrients understand the impact it might have on your receiving environment and how you're going to manage it and the mitigation practice you got available to you but you need to be undertaking monitoring of recycled water quality I would say monthly throughout the year particularly during the irrigation season if it's an irrigation system that you've got set up but looking for those changes over time is it consistent is it fluctuating understanding the reasons why it may be fluctuating and the impact it's going to have that's really critical planning for your scheme is really important but planning for the wet year I think is the most important thing that you can do in dry years particularly for operating irrigation schemes dry years can be annoying dry years can be annoying because we can run out of recycled water during the season and if you're supplying recycled water to a commercial farmer for example under contract and they run out of water partway through the irrigation season they're not going to be too impressed but from a compliance point of view if you've emptied your lagoon prior to the winter storage period then you're going to be in a much better situation but the wet years is where we really start to test the the friendship and where our struggles can come along so you need to have a really good plan that can clearly show how you're going to manage your recycled water when we've got bigger volumes that we're trying to manage recycled water is often described as a really sustainable stable source of water and whilst that's true it does fluctuate quite considerably with the environment and with the climate the same way a lot of our water sources do so during a drought we're going to have a lot less when we wish we had more and during the wet years we're going to have heaps of it to manage when we wish we didn't have it but it is those wet years that you need to have a plan for so often we do that through water balance modelling which will touch on in a bit more detail in a minute but we make sure that we've got enough infrastructure so enough storage and enough end use to manage how much water we're going to generate in a wet year that's a really critical part of putting together a good scheme and making sure you're planned for all sorts of conditions that could come towards you reconcile your data again we see a lot of systems where data is being collected and it's being recorded in a spreadsheet or put into a spreadsheet and not a great deal of thought is being given to what that information means so one I would go back and make sure that the data makes sense so are the results I'm getting do they pass the gut test or is there something in there that gives me an inkling that either the data might not be recorded well maybe there's a flow meter that's out maybe we've got a leak somewhere maybe we're recording from a different area where we thought we shouldn't have been or we should have been or maybe we've got some data that says to me our treatment process isn't working well or something news being introduced which has changed how much water we've got or what our quality looks like not just trusting data blindly and putting it into spreadsheets is really important having a critical eye and looking through that data and understanding why you're getting the numbers that you are and why maybe fluctuating is really important because it'll help you to keep track of how well your scheme's operating and whether you're maintaining your compliance or not it'll give you a much better understanding of your system so you'll be much more in tune with how things will ever flow and what you might expect to see when little changes are made it'll just keep you in good contact with everything that's going on so reconcile your data please if you take one thing out of this I hope that's it really make sure you understand what your data is saying and what it's all about and the last point there is all good schemes are underpinned by good water balance so Richard if we roll over to the next slide I really think this is critical for any recyclable water irrigation scheme that you understand what your inflows or what your volumes throughout the year are going to look like what their seasonal variation is and how you're going to make them work there's a few graphs on here and I'll just quickly talk our way through them the graph in the bottom left hand corner is what we call a sawtooth graph but that's modelling how a winter storage is expected to fill an empty over a 20 year period in this example our criteria is that we've provided enough infrastructure to manage the recycled water in a 90th percentile wet year so you can see from that graph there's 20 years of data the lagoon would spill in two of the 20 years so there's your 90th percentile containment what we're saying here is that the storage is consistently filling and emptying apart from those few wet years which is exactly what we want to see in our recycled water schemes that means we've got a good balance between winter storage and irrigation and that we're looking after our compliance quite well the graph in the top right hand corner is a curve that we often produce which looks at the different combinations of storage and irrigation area you can have to manage the volume of water so as that curve shows you can have a really large area a really large storage volume and a really small irrigation area or a really large irrigation area and a really small volume and still achieve 90th percentile containment which is what this curve is looking at doing or 50th percentile containment or 75th percentile containment whatever your measure may be but the best combination is where that curve breaks and it's flattened out so in that example it's going to be somewhere around about 20 to 25 hectares and about 80 to 100 megalitres that's where you're going to drive the best results from your scheme but it makes sure that you've got enough infrastructure in place to cater for that wet year which I was touching on previously the graph in the bottom right hand corner those first two graphs that I spoke about that's what we would call strategic water balance modelling we've got enough infrastructure set up to cater for the volume of recycled water that I'm going to be producing the graph in the bottom right hand corner is what we'd call an operational water balance where it's looking at how much recycled water we've got in storage throughout the season and then what might happen under various climatic conditions so the blue line which is giving the highest values that's what would happen in a wet year greater than a 90th percent or wet year the second line is an average year through to a dry year etc etc that's a great way of predicting what shape you're in is my storage going to overflow am I going to have to try and increase how much reuse I've got and what I can do with my water again a really good thing to have throughout the year next one thanks Richard sorry guys Richard probably dropped off we are going to share the screen again sorry Matt and you can continue no worries thank you I've got it here if you'd like me to share but I'll let you yeah great thank you so apologies everyone who are online watching the webinar but that's the wonders of what happens when you're doing these things monitoring and reporting again it's really critical that we have good systems set up from a monitoring and reporting point of view that helps us keep check as to how our schemes are performing are we meeting our compliance which is a really important part so typically we'll have a management management program set up or an environmental management plan in place which is going to detail the monitoring we're going to do to make sure that we're looking after having a really positive impact and not having a detrimental or a negative impact on the environment or human health or animal health what your monitoring looks like will be driven by the individual scheme needs and should be underpinned by a really good risk assessment which will help show where you've got risks the mitigation practices you might need to put in place and then the monitoring you're going to undertake to show that you're either successfully or whether you need to make a change in your scheme monitoring yeah that's typically around volume and quality and soil chemistry nutrient balances groundwater etc etc but you need to make sure your monitoring is set up is efficient it's repeatable it's accurate and underpinned by good science and really skilled technicians we find a way to go if you're undertaking the monitoring in-house please make sure that you've got people who have got a good understanding of the monitoring they're undertaking the science that sits behind it and what they need to do to drive really good results because the monitoring data that we collect is critically important to our schemes it's the one thing that we've got that the schemes get judged by and it's the single piece of information or the single pieces of information to improve the schemes and what they're like next slide please we're just going to change gears a little bit now and talk about the new Victorian Environmental Protection Act which is about to come into on the 1st of July this year parts of it are already in place and I thought I might just touch on some of the changes just to give people an introduction if you haven't already caught up with it the three terms that you see on your screen or there's four terms really the preventative approach the general environmental duties the state of knowledge and reasonably practicable we're going to become very familiar with those if we're not already so the general environmental duty that's the overarching concept that sits behind the new Victorian EP Act I'll leave you to read the definition the state of knowledge is a really interesting one so what should be known or reasonably known about the risks of harm to human health and the environment and the means of eliminating these or otherwise reducing those risks so our state of knowledge is going to be really important it's what we're going to be assessed against and it's going to be up to everyone who's managing recycled water to make sure their state of knowledge is up to date and they know what they should be doing to managing their schemes and to the extent recently practicable means putting in controls that are proportionate to the risk and assessments in place understanding what our risks are and how we're going to mitigate them is going to be an important part of the new EP Act next slide please this is just an overview of how the new EP Act is going to come together but we might roll to the next slide in the interest of time there's going to be a new set of what's called permissions so they'll be licences a lot of the things that we do with recycled water particularly from an irrigation point of view will be covered by permits and that term we spoke about before being the state of knowledge the new guidelines that have been released in Victoria so publication 1910 that replaces the old publication that some of you may be familiar with which was publication 464.2 that's the overarching document in Victoria for recycled water management that will be two technical publications which can be used to help drive really good schemes so publication 1911 and publication 168 168 is specific to wastewater or recycled water irrigation so publication 1910 and 1911 they were released in the last couple of months we being RMCG are fortunate enough that we're currently working on a rewrite of publication 168 with EPA and we hope that that's going to be released towards the latter end of this year but they will provide a range of information that will help inform people's state of knowledge and what they need to be aware of when they're managing recycled water next slide this last slide really just shows again how they all come together but there is a very formal link to the Australian guidelines for water recycling so those new publications 1910, 1911 and the revised version of 168 that we're working on they all fall under the broader banner of the Australian guidelines for water recycling which have been a great set of guidelines they've been out for quite a while now but we're seeing some really good coordination between the states where they're all referring to an overarching set of documents the output of all this work is producing a management plan that can be in place to manage your recycled water in the past they've been called environment improvement plans but they're going to be called health and environmental management plans now so we're going from EIPs to hemp in Victoria and they'll essentially be the output of where people are articulating what their systems are going to look like the risk assessments that they've worked through the mitigation practices they're going to have in place and how they're going to drive really good, sustainable the next slide if Richard's on the line I'm going to hand over to you Richard to pick up this case study okay, can you hear me? yes we can that's good news, sorry my zoom cut out earlier everybody so look I just thought we'd share one case study in particular a bit of an emphasis I wanted to put on this was raising awareness on what can be done automatically certainly in the context of what Matt was saying about state of knowledge there's quite a lot of technology that's emerging or established that can be used to better manage wastewater or certainly optimize it so what was this project about you'll see on the right hand side there there's the large lagoon that lagoon was coming from a milk powder factory when you create milk powder you take a lot of fluid out of it obviously out of the milk and that comes in and forms an effluent which is monitored it's monitored as part of the process and at the discharge points to these ponds it's also monitored in real time in those ponds now typically that sort of monitoring happens as part of the production facility so the data often is in the format of a SCADA system which is linked to various control devices and that sort of thing so often that data is not readily available to people managing the environment certainly either from a compliance point of view or for managing it in terms of optimizing it so often one of the first challenges is just to get all the information and data that you need into one place so you can start doing those comparisons of data and look at how you can use that data to optimize application obviously if you're going to use that for something like optimizing irrigation you need that data in a really timely way and so typically you need to set it up on a telemetry type arrangement so that water that I pointed out in that Lagoon needs to find a home and these factories keep running all year round regardless of what the environment's really doing so you need to be getting rid of that water in a timely way to meet those requirements that Matt referred to in terms of not having too much water in a pond so there's a number of inputs you need and a number of things you need to know about that and quite a bit of infrastructure you need to actually get rid of that so the picture on the left shows how this particular facility managed those aspects so that sketch of the looks like slices of a pie is actually a pivot irrigator's sort of settings for how it it irrigates and it rotates around and it's applying water out onto in this case pasture which was used for grazing that pasture and the amount that you get off was monitored so they actually know the yield that's coming off there and they're trying to balance optimising that pasture growth with their environmental compliance obligations so what are those environmental compliance obligations well in this instance there's quite a few so there's a relatively shallow water table so part of their EIP or seem to be changed name plan is about protecting groundwater quality so you need to be thinking about not only the quality of putting on but the amount and trying to get a balance there between the transpiration rate of the grass or the pastures this is the infiltration capacity of your soil and the application rate of your irrigation system secondly there were surface water considerations so there are streams that run adjacent to those irrigation paddocks and one risk is you put too much water on you create overland flow and those impacted waters can potentially discharge offsite now obviously that varies completely with anti-seed and moisture conditions so if the paddocks already pretty wet then you need to throttle back your application rate maybe in some circumstances turn it off altogether because otherwise you're creating a surface runoff and potentially exceeding your compliance requirements so these sorts of projects they really do need a collaborative approach between the farmer who's looking after the pasture your consultant who's looking after environmental compliance and the site operator of the facility who's producing the effluent and managing and controlling that so in this particular project how to balance all these things well we had to set up a set of systems to ingest data in a timely way and as Matt mentioned often the data is in spreadsheets so it does involve changing processes for data collection it involved customising how to do that data so we had data inputs coming from the irrigation set up we had data inputs coming from the environmental compliance monitoring so things like depth to ground water and any water quality monitoring results from there and we needed the time series data coming from the SCADA system that was being used in the operating facility so all that data needed to come together but most importantly how to automate a water balance right for the importance of water balance well in particular how to automate the unsaturated zone of your pasture paddocks because that's really what's driving compliance here if you can balance your application rates with your soil moisture content offsite either discharged to ground water or surface water runoff that's the definition of success and to do that you need real-time data on your soil moisture and in this particular site we used capacitance probes that measured soil moisture at 10 centimetre increments down below the soil and they had a an automated controller which changed the irrigation rates that came from the pivot irrigators so a fair bit of automation there so that's an example of a project the what else is coming in the way of technology that's relevant to this there's a system that was developed in western Australia by a company that we have a relationship with called swan systems and they can automate your weather forecasting data as well as your soil moisture data coming from capacitance probes and they can do a real-time projection of the application rates that you can put on taking in account weather forecast data obviously that's really valuable if you're trying to manage the amount of effluent sitting in that pond if you know seven days out that there's going to be a lot of rain then you want to optimise putting that before the rain comes rather than having a pond that's going to be overflowing during those storms so swan systems is certainly something I'd suggest you have a look at we have a link on our website to that but it's a really fantastic piece of technology the last bit of technology news is Matt's mentioned the importance of microbial monitoring and there's some really cool technology emerging around both hand-held devices to measure things like E. coli in the field using nanotechnology which is something that we're looking to bring to Australia so it's a little portable device like a photometer and that will give you a reading of E. coli readings and other bacterial readings the bit of nanotechnology allows it to be sort of specific for certain bacteria types very clever at the other end of the spectrum there are real-time continuous monitors now available for measuring things like E. coli they're quite expensive systems and quite large they need mains power supply and that sort of thing but they do exist and there's a company out of the Netherlands called Microland that set up these continuous monitoring systems to determine your relationship with so be aware you can measure things like E. coli in the field using portable devices and you can measure them continuously I think that will cover everything I wanted to talk about I think should leave a few minutes for questions next slide please alright so I'm not sure if I can view the Q&A I might be able to today alright so there's no open questions at the moment I'd encourage you to put some questions in in the interim I will ask a couple of questions of Matt so Matt firstly I suppose we are in a pandemic and we have issues with viruses and that sort of thing in our wastewater streams you hear about them monitoring that but how effective are our treatment systems at trading those sorts of viruses before for example we put them out on horticultural crops you've got a position on that absolutely I think there's been a lot of work done Richard to make sure that we specify the treatment processes that are needed for the different types of end uses so if we're going to a fresh crop which is going to not undergo any processing or cooking or anything like that then we need to make sure the quality of water is suitable for that type of end use and there's been loads of work done over the last 20, 30, 40 years to make sure that our treatment standards are really top notch and they can produce the quality of water we need for the different types of end use and that gets tested really rigorously there's really good controls in place critical control points and quality assurance management plans etc which are really quite stringent to make sure that whoever's producing that water they're doing it to the standard that's required and then it's suitable for the end use and those end uses are really well documented throughout all the guidance that we've got available the Australian guidelines or the individual state guidelines so I think we can take a lot of confidence that our water quality experts and our scientists who are working on that side of things have been thinking about it hard for a long time and we've got really well established practices in place. That gives me some comfort Matt we're not pumping viruses straight out on our salad Nigel Nigel McGuckin has a question Is there a need for a water quality standard between A and B particularly for use as environmental flows? Yeah so G'day Nigel for environmental flows I think it's all about what the beneficial use of that waterway is and it's environmental condition so if we know that that waterway is going to be used for primary contact recreation for example for swimming we're going to have a higher treatment standard that's needed versus if it's not used for swimming or drinking water or whatever it may be we don't always need Class A recycled water for environmental flows so I think my approach would be that we use the science and our risk assessments to help drive what the answers should be that we articulate that catchment what the beneficial uses are how it's being used and how we're going to go about making sure that we're looking after those beneficial uses and mitigating any of the risks that we identify so is there something specific between Class A and Class B that probably won't be I'm not sure it needs to be but I think we can get about it through that risk assessment process I might add to that question Matt so things like this emerging technology around continuous microbial monitoring do you think that's actually valuable in the context of working out whether you can discharge that water for environmental flows and that sort of thing or would that be I think if it helps provide confidence to whoever's involved be that the people running the scheme or the community then that's a really good thing Richard so if we've got systems in place that are operating the way they should be and we can see from the data that's being recorded that they're consistently meeting the targets that we need to mitigate any risks then yeah I'm all for it I think there's an opportunity to do it you've got to balance the cost of it I suppose that's the one thing that you've got to think about but you're probably a bit closer to me so I'm interested in your thoughts as well but it would seem like there's good potential for it well I think there's probably real benefits in those spot measurement devices because I'll be pretty low cost producer reading in sort of less than half an hour so you can do spot checks in terms of real-time monitoring I'm really not sure so certainly if it's real-time monitoring you can know what the trends are in your microbial levels and that sort of thing and it would probably be a good way of retrospectively checking if you had an exceedance or set an alarm on that so perhaps if it's linked with an automatic shutoff and you've got a criteria for a particular concentration or a coli reading that could be a real benefit so yeah it's probably benefits but it would be interesting to map it out versus what you do I think the caution too is we know that they're going to jump around a bit the treatment plants which is often why we're interested in median results from a water quality point of view knowing what the 75th or the 90th max might look like as well so we would need to make sure we take a balanced approach to it rather than just getting scared by a limit which may jump at any one time but then may flatten out over the rest of the day or something like that yeah no that makes sense I've got another question here from Adam Buzza Buzza with respect to the case study what's the approximate cost of that package for automated weather stations or moisture telemetry irrigation decision support look there's a few elements to that it's not easy to provide you with a cost estimate straight off the bat but I would say that the first step is we do a monitoring system design typically the cost for us to do something like that sort of design sits between about five and ten thousand dollars and that produces a monitoring design and a specification which includes recommendations on equipment and that sort of thing in the particular case study there was a lot of pre-existing infrastructure for example water quality sowns in those lagoons they had a weather station on site so the infrastructure that we were adding there was really the real-time soil moisture sensors we did end up putting another weather station in because the weather station on site was a bit weary and then to integrate it back into data strand is pretty low cost if you want to add something like swan systems to it there's another costing structure around that and that's typically about six thousand dollars per year to have that swan systems facility on top of it the amount they charge depends a bit on the number of pivot irrigators that you have on site for example so there's another question but it's sitting in the chats I will go to the chat session in regards to technologies available this is from Sebastian Quintana in regards to technologies available would there be an interest in laser flow meter instruments to qualify flows on shallow water beds or where surface conditions are a bit harsh given the ability of these devices to measure true velocity true velocity under the surface of the water I'm new to the industry so just a silly question no such thing as a silly question Sebastian so Matt what's your view on that one well it sounds like a Hydrochera answer to me Richard well it's a bit of a combination right so there's several ways to measure velocity one of the challenges of measuring flow velocity comes down to when you're dealing with conditions where you have no flow at all for example and then you have substantial flow so other technologies that are used for for example open channel flow or things like Doppler sensors that sort of thing a lot of the time you have flow meters coming into your irrigators right so in the case of the case study that flow data was critical but that was in pipe flow they normally use something like a mag flow on those or an impeller and if you've got a low budget and that provides you with real time flow data in terms of compliance on I mean Matt I'm not actually sure if you have a sort of flood irrigate with wastewater yeah no definitely there's there's really good examples on the right soil types and this is what you always need to think about when you're picking your way through different irrigation systems but on the right soil type surface irrigation can be quite efficient so there's plenty of examples where every cycle of water is being used from a flood point of view So I think in answer to the question there would be some opportunities if that technology was the most cost effective way to measure flow coming down the bay for example the second part of that is managing to make sure you're not putting too much on so you're exceeding those infiltration sort of things related to managing flood irrigation as well Next question can you give an example of closed loop cycle for industrial wastewater yeah it's a good question often the volume yeah often the volumes that are produced will exceed any of the internal reuse opportunities so it won't be completely closed loop and the other thing we often see baruna as well is from a risk point of view sometimes the industry will prefer to use potable water which has been provided by the water authority for all their processes as opposed to recycled water that they've produced themselves even though it could be of the same standard just from a risk side of things so a completely closed loop would be hard to achieve but certainly there is industrial water that goes back into for cooling purposes and that type of thing but it would be unusual that would account for the whole volume although there are some sites that look to account for quite a bit themselves and make sure that they're reducing what their potable water or intake may be maximising the value of their recycled water all right we're just about out of time in fact we are out of time but which is pretty good because we've just run out of questions as well so Matt I'd just like to really thank you for sharing your knowledge today I thought that was excellent and particularly good to keep people up to speed with those new regulations and the regulations you're working on so many thanks for your contribution today and if you have any queries feel free to give us an email and we will pass those questions on to Matt so many thanks everybody and thanks for coming along today Thanks Richard, thanks everyone


forming the Marine Corps to compete with China. That's our subject today on the military in Hawaii, and we have Lieutenant General Emerson Godner, and welcome to the show Lieutenant General Godner. Oh, thank you for having me today, Jake. Please call me Emo. Okay, Emo it is. So there's a lot of things changing in the world, and certainly it starts with the Pacific, which is the title of our show, but we'll also talk about Ukraine, which is the frustration, the outrage of the moment. So let's talk about the changes in the Pacific first. Let's talk about how the Pacific is in a new kind of dynamic. What kind of dynamic that is? Is it a defense dynamic? Is it an economic dynamic? Is it part of a global dynamic? And how does that affect the view of the Marine Corps and the military in dealing with the challenges of the Pacific? Well, of course, the Pacific has changed greatly because the biggest actor in the region, China, has changed economically and also with regard to their ambitions, or at least their enacting their ambitions. So what we see is a more expansive China that is trying to resolve grievances from the past 100 years of history, or 200 years of history, and making aggressive moves and the out, outward from its own coastline. The theater is, it's always been a maritime theater managed, of course, by the commander of Indo-Pakam, but the main player here of China has become much more of a maritime actor. It's become very active in the South China Sea, has actually created islands and put military facilities on them, has essentially taken over Hong Kong, has changed the laws. It's not officially part of China, totally integrated, but it's just a matter of time, their recent laws and much more heavy handedness in Hong Kong. And of course, they've always had the intent of bringing Taiwan back into China proper. So that's been the background. We've seen steady growth on that. Our US grand strategy has been to, has been to treat the threat of China as the pacing factor for the United States. And so that we would draw down our involvement in the Middle East, also reduce our resources and forces in Europe so that we could then concentrate them on this Pacific threat. So what you see now with what's happened recently here with Ukraine is that's upset that balance. It's not, doesn't seem like it's going to be appropriate to withdraw from Europe. If anything, we're already putting thousands of troops in as part of NATO and, you know, given another two or three months, we'll see what the permanent posture change is. But clearly, we're not going to be able to draw down and take resources from European engagement and put that towards the Pacific. We're going to have to increase resources. Then Lieutenant General Dave Berger, who was the commanding general of Marine Forces, Pacific is out here involved in all the war planning, really began to take a hard look at how the Marine Corps was constituted, how it acted. He was transferred from here back to the Marine Corps Combat Development Center and then became commandant in the summer of 2019. In that summer, he put out some planning guidance in which he said his number one focus for his four-year tour was what he calls Force Design 2030. It is to adapt and change the focus of the Marine Corps from being a amphibious force and readiness oriented on all global threats to one that's primarily focused on supporting the naval campaign in the Pacific. He began doing a lot of analyses in this program. He has turned over a lot of analysis about force on force with China, a lot of war gaming, and came to the conclusion that there needed to be significant changes in the Marine Corps, that we need to lighten the Marine Corps, make it more agile.  Let's equip the Marine Corps, what does the Navy actually need? The Navy needs precision fires, long range fires, it needs help in dominating the huge expanse of the Pacific. So the idea is we're off the east coast of the, go into different islands, islets inside the first island chain with forces that have long range precision fires, missile batteries that can shoot 100 to 500 miles. And if you think about if you have let's say five to 10 of these islands and you put marine littoral forces out there on each of those islands, and then you draw a circle around each of the islands, when you get five or 10 of them, and you combine all those circles, you can see that Marines can actually dominate a significant part of the sea space with, if they have the right sensors, and they have the right weapons to go in on Chinese forces. So this then would free up the Navy to focus, to cover more area, basically you have the naval component covering more area. So to get there, we need things, we need more longer range, more effective longer range weapons, we need to be agile, you need to move forces around. If you were that close to China, you can imagine it would be a very vulnerable area.  So what you basically have to do is shoot, move, set up in a new place, shoot again, move again. So you need connectors, you need small amphibious ships to quickly offload forces that can do this kind of shooting and then reload them, move to another place. You need helicopters that can also move those out there. So this mobility piece becomes very important. The logistics of any of these operations in the Pacific because of the huge space and remoteness, fuel becomes a really big problem. So you can see that Marine Force will end up having to bring in bladders to service these firing units, etc. and then move them after they shoot, etc. So this is the force you need. The General Berger said the Marines need to be in order to help enable campaign. Well, how are we going to do that? We need to start investing in designing new smaller amphibious ships that are less targeted. And his idea is to divest functions that we now have and capabilities in order to invest. So for example, he has eliminated tanks from the Marine Corps inventory. He has changed all the artillery units, or basically almost all of them, to missile units. So instead of trucks hauling 155 millimeter artillery pieces, we're going to have missiles that can fire from the back of vehicles and even home bees. And so he's going to make the Marine Corps smaller. He's cut the ideas. We're focused on this single threat. We don't really need infantry units as much as we need littoral units that are capable of this mobility and these long range fires. So he first sees to generate the resources, in other words, make this change within the same budget top line that the Marine Corps currently has. So he's going to reduce the size of the Marine Corps by about 12,000. So right now it's around, it was when we started this two years ago, it was around 186,000. And it's going to go down to about 174,000. And he's getting there by reducing about 108 aircraft, in other words, making squadrons from 16 aircraft each to 10, getting rid of tanks, the artillery pieces, etc. And so this is a at least five year and as long as 10 year project to get to this objective force. But he's trying to speed this along because the general consensus is that the threat to China is in after 2025 to 2030. We don't really think we have a lot of time to do this. We need to get on with it. Well, you know, read about long range missiles, naval assets that China has been building. I don't think they have a Navy like our Navy, but they're certainly trying to build a lot of Navy assets. And for that matter, long range missiles. And so it just as, you know, a citizen civilian, rather than a senior Marine officer, I would just guess that, you know, we have to focus on that because that's where they're focusing. At the end of the day, it really is defense.  And if they're doing long range missiles and building, you know, big ships and capable of crossing the Pacific, then we have to be able to meet them on that. So it would seem to me that we better be sure that we have the naval equipment ready to go. And I think what I heard you saying was that that's where we're working. We may be reducing the size of the Marine Corps, but we're probably increasing the hardware in the Navy and the weaponry in the Navy and the long range aspect of the Navy. That's exactly right. It'll be, you know, in terms of end strength, the Marine Corps will be smaller. But for this particular mission, it's going to be much more powerful. We don't have missiles that shoot 500 miles now. And we don't really have the capability. But using the, for example, the F 35 jets that we have, and which have a tremendous sensing capability, you can go out and find targets, you can transmit that targeting information down to missiles. The missiles then can target that ship or whatever it is coming out. And also can put even these new island bases that the Chinese have constructed in the South China Sea, you know, you can put those under threat. And the idea is we're basically expanding the Navy with the Marine Corps. And we are an able force and part of it on there. The only controversy on this, on this within the Marine Corps and people that have looked at this thing, it's been, it's been wholly embraced by Congress and is very well thought of as innovative and bold. And General Berger certainly gets a lot of credit there. The only controversy is that it's almost a singular focus. The Marine Corps never really had a singular focus before. We've always been a global force, you know, we're doing V 22 operations in Africa. And we have, we were a course in the whole, all of the Iraq and Afghanistan thing. And now we're really, we're still going to be able to do some of that, but we're giving up those extra capabilities to focus on this. And so that's a bit of a risk historically. But one that the commandant feels is worth taking. So you don't see now in the Ukraine situation, you don't, there's no Marine involvement. That's traditionally an army theater. But also if you think that while this is all going on in Ukraine, we need to kind of watch what's going on on the other side of the world and see if China is trying to take advantage of our focus on, on Europe right now. And so the Marine stand ready here and are the other, the other fist, if you will.  They're, they're very focused on that. And, and also the possibility that somehow Vladimir Putin's adventures in Ukraine will encourage them. For example, logically, if he prevails in Ukraine and he may do that, that makes the Chinese all the bolder, all the bolder and doing the same kind of thing with respect to Taiwan. And so this theater is always important, isn't it? It's always important. And, and you know, you always have to look and see what else is going on in the world to evaluate the risks and the possibilities here. Absolutely. No, and absolutely correct. Whereas normally the Chinese are very outspoken about other countries respecting territorial rights. Here we see Russia, you know, using, you know, the old, old Russia concept, Russian Empire concept on Ukraine. That's not a lot of different than China looking at Taiwan as part of China. So, you know, we need to go in there and, you know, you can see China making the argument that they're very clear that they're going to do everything possible to get Taiwan back in. So it's just a matter of how are they going to do that? Is that going to happen peacefully? So sort of two logs going down the river that just eventually converge. You see that with all the business and the air travel between the two, between Taiwan and China, etc. Or is it going to be just done forcefully, which is what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Then if you take that step one, think thought process one step further, we see how the world is reacting to Russia. We're not reacting to Russia with force on force. All the troop movements and everything else are in sport, are bolstering the defenses of countries around Ukraine. And the primary instruments being used to deter Putin are economic, diplomatic. And they seem to be, they seem quite strong and they seem to be effective. I think China is watching that as well. Of course, they're a much larger, much more important economic force, but they also have, they're also very vulnerable to that. Well, talking about Ukraine for a minute, that's what everybody's thinking about, Gregory. Certainly, Europe has changed in the past week, if not the past month. And Europe is afraid, the countries in the EU, the people in the EU are afraid, the people in NATO are afraid that Putin is just ramping up to do more. And that Ukraine is a part of a step transaction. And that would seem his way of thinking, step transaction. You take the step, that step, and you gauge the result. It's slightly pathological. But I suppose we understand him better now, after a few weeks of this.  You've had a long career in the Marine Corps. You've been concerned with national defense and readiness for how many decades. And now you see a Cold War that you thought went away. We all thought went away and it didn't go away. And it's back and it's worse than it has been through our lifetimes, General. We never saw this in all the years after World War II. This is really unprecedented all that time. And for a military man, you must have a specific view of it because you have seen the Cold War. You've seen the containment of Russia, in a way, the fall of Russia. And now we have this. And it really, what it says, is we had better think twice before we turn our backs on them. We'd better think twice before we let our guard down. This is a time when America has to protect itself and the rest of the free world, more perhaps than we have in the past several decades. Well, of course, one of the big takeaways here is the Europeans themselves now get it. Germany has done tremendous change in policy. They've always been long-time members of NATO, of course, but they've always tread lightly when it comes to Russia, necessarily. But and there was a lot of doubt and uncertainty about where they're, how they were going to deal with Russia in this case. But now it's quite clear. They cut off the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. They have been right there on all the sanctions. You have hundreds of thousands of Germans actually demonstrating in Berlin for stronger defense and spending up to the the previous NATO goal of 2% of GDP. And so we have to hope that it's too little too late. I think the real risk that we are being very effective, I think with these economic and diplomatic measures, it's putting huge, Putin has made some mistakes in how in his assumptions and how fast this was all going to go and how effective he's going to be. And so he's going to start feeling pressure is supporters, the oligarchs are now being sanctioned. All of these measures that are going to start having an effect on the population, he's going to feel pressure. And I think he's going to have to limit his goals in Ukraine. He'll probably annex some of the eastern portion there, which will allow him direct access to the Black Sea from Russia. But then he'll probably be willing to accept some sort of Ukrainian government as long as it's not as much more neutral. He wants more of a Switzerland kind of government or something between Russia and NATO. But how he gets there, I think the big change for us is comes back to this theater. We see how much has to be done to be able to deal with China. And we have to develop the forces and invest in the forces to go do that. And right now, we're going to do diverting. I mean, even the Democrats today on the Hill, we're talking about a 10 to $20 billion supplemental right now, the fear for Ukraine. Well, how long are we going to be able to do that? And where's that money? That is money that we were hoping to invest in against China. Well, I mean, what it comes down to is this is a message that we have to be in both theaters. We have to beef it up in the Pacific wheel. Also, I mean, I really think this changes American policy and American defense policy in Europe. If they're scared, we should be, you know, appropriately concerned. The other thing is, you know, a couple of days ago, Putin said that don't forget we are nuclear power, which is really rattling saber, isn't it? We haven't heard those kinds of words in a long time. And I said to myself, why now? What is this? I'll give you a theory. And I wonder your thought about it. I think, although the US and for that matter, Western Europe has said they don't want to put boots on the ground in Ukraine. I think his escalation of the attack does suggest to a lot of people that from a humanitarian point of view, maybe we have to reconsider that simply to save lives on a humanitarian basis. People are dying and will continue to die in large numbers. And so his concern right or wrong is that the Western Europeans may think more and more about putting boots on the ground in Western Ukraine and possibly the US, although, you know, the president has made it clear he's not going to do that. It's an issue that could be considered again, if things get worse. And so I think his Putin's mentioning his nuclear capability, his threat is a way of saying, don't put boots on the ground, because if you do that, we're going to have a nuclear war. And it was an anticipation. It was one of those step transaction moves as part of a whole, you know, long plan that he's engaged in. What do you think? I think that I think there's low probability that NATO or the US would put boots on the ground in Ukraine. I think we'll do things to facilitate once, you know, right now we have a million refugees have already left the country. It's theorized another three million will be coming out. You're going to see a lot of support for those in Moldova and Poland and Romania, etc. But I think as a counter theory to what you proposed there, this could also be a warning from Putin is don't squeeze me too hard on these economic and diplomatic things. You know, this is going to follow out. I'm committed to certain goals here in Ukraine, and they're not exactly clear. But I'm going to continue to do that.  We cut off all their oil. We cut off everything. This has been much more drastic than anybody thought. At what point is he going to then say, well, I still have one tool left in my on my belt here.  I don't think he thinks he's, you know, how is it? It's going to get messy in Ukraine. They're going to resist. You know, I've no doubt that he'll he'll take over the cities. But as we saw in Iraq, if you have a population that has insurgency running throughout it, you know, the Russians experienced in Afghanistan. And, you know, it's the same. And it's very difficult. You can take territory, but you can't hold it. You can't really occupy it. And it's very costly. And so this is really a wrong move for Putin, because his economy and diplomatically there, this Russian Empire, he's trying to recreate difficult to see how it moves forward. Yeah. And there have been interesting reports. Let me just mention a couple. Of course, his economy is suffering and will suffer more. I mean, it's a long, it's a momentum thing. And within a few weeks, it'll start to take hold. And, you know, he'll have a problem not only in terms of the economy de facto, but in terms of people's reaction. And those body bags are going to come back now to Russia. And people aren't going to like it. They don't like it already. And so he's going to have a certain amount of resistance. At the same time, you talk about insurgency. There was an interesting report this morning of some, I think, Vladimir, you know, Zelensky, yeah, he, Zelensky said that he had given permission for some 16,000 people who volunteered from the outside to fight in Ukraine. And I think that's only the top of the iceberg. There'll be more. It's very appealing to fight for the right. And they're volunteers. It's not like they're, you know. There were some, I saw, I actually saw online some application forms for that. Do you fill it out? And you send it into the Ukrainian embassy in Washington. They have a list of things you should bring with you, you know, bulletproof vests and this kind of boots, et cetera. This reminds me a little bit of the Spanish Civil War. And you have the Lincoln Brigade and had all these other outside forces coming in. Yes. And it's very interesting that the people who might volunteer for that could be retired military from U.S., U.S. military. That's a golden there. I didn't ask. But it is a question. So, I mean, we're going to get involved in this one way or the other on the ground and we're going to provide them, you know, weapons and food and clothing and whatever we can. And I think that's all totally appropriate. And it doesn't challenge Putin, you know, in his essential strategy. It just helps on the humanitarian level. There's going to be a new, there's clearly going to be a new status quo. We'll have former and refugees to deal with in those countries, which are already suffering inflation and, you know, from the refugees from Syria a couple of years ago. And we're also going to have now Russia will be directly up against the NATO countries, you know, the Ukrainian, the borders directly up against Poland.  He is trying to establish a circle of buffer countries around him, Georgia, Nagorno-Karabakh, and then also now Ukraine, Belarus. You know, one thing that strikes me, I'd like to ask you about is this. You know, Ukraine has never attacked Russia. It's always Russia attacking Ukraine. And the U.S. has never, you know, they may have accepted the invitations, rather the applications of a variety of Eastern European countries to come into NATO. But that's only membership. That's not aggressive, you know, policy. It's not aggressive military moves. It is simply membership in a, you know, community defense. That's all it is.  This threatens Putin. And we understand why he's doing this. But I don't understand that at all. I see only one side here taking aggressive steps. And I wonder if I'm missing something. Could it be that the United States has been aggressive in some way? Could it be that the expansion of NATO is such an aggressive move in terms of, you know, military defense policy that he should be concerned?  It strikes me that the United States is, right now and for a long time, is a defensive company country. It's not interested in taking over new territories. It is not interested in taking aggressive steps or invasions against anyone. And here we're, you know, we're dealing with somebody who does exactly that. Why, why, what are your thoughts about that? I don't think we're being aggressive in Ukraine. I don't think we're at least in any way interested in and putting any boots on the ground there. I think this stems back from the late 90s with this Budapest mental random in which in order to get Ukraine to give up the nuclear weapons that they had left over from the old Soviet Union, we said that we would guarantee their territorial integrity. Russia also signed that. And that's what this kind of all goes back to. So here their territorial integrity has been violated by one of the signatories to this memo. And you're right, we're not, I do not see as any aggression on our part that we got involved in this the first place for the right reason to get nuclear weapons out of Ukraine, less nuclear weapons that close. And that was accomplished. But in a way that has led the Ukrainians on to think, and they're naturally more oriented in being aligned with Europe and the EU than they are with Russia. And be more of a global trading place if they sold their IT. I read an article where the actual percentage of imports to foreign countries is now China is actually as more Ukrainian imports than Russia. Yes, I saw that too. Yeah. So I guess the larger question is, and so Ukraine would never attack Russia. Ukraine doesn't want nuclear weapons. I mean, it's absurd. And now this fellow is he's making a parking lot out of Ukraine and killing people left and right for reasons that are really hard to understand from, you know, a casual observer and the public all over the world. And so it's hard to predict, isn't it? You know, where this is going. It's hard to predict what's going to happen next week. It's hard to predict how this is going to settle if it ever settles. It's hard to predict how it's going to change the face of Europe. But query, has it changed the face of United States defense?  You mentioned that the Marine Corps is not in Europe right now, but it could be.  How does this change that deployment? Oh, I think that, you know, there are Marines in Europe, of course, we used to have routine deployments in a Mediterranean. We pulled back on those. We didn't do those. Now we'll start thinking about having those will start happening again. But I think right now what you're seeing is the Army is going to be given the European focus. It's their traditional theater. They have, I think it's on the order 7000 troops they put into various countries there. And let the Marines focus on the Pacific. The Army recently in recent years has shown greater interest in the Pacific and is oriented has a, you know, a Pacific focus that is done on that. But I think now that the country, you know, we have to focus on two theaters now. And I think that will be divided between the Army and Marines. Army will still clearly be it's so much larger than the Marine Corps. And it will still clearly have a Pacific emphasis. But the our main focus must be Europe. Yeah. You know, we've talked to a number of people in Europe over the past few days, you know, correspondence and people who either have been in Ukraine or are in Ukraine. We've had some shows just like the cable, the cable TV is that. And one thing seems clear. They are delighted with President Biden. They are delighted with the presence of of the US in Western Europe. They are delighted with our interests and our support in all the ways we're supporting them. So to the extent that in the last administration, you know, we undermined our relationship with NATO and the EU, which we did on a regular basis. That that has been that has changed. And now we are returning to a time when the Europeans by and large love to hear about America. They love us for what we have done, even in the recent weeks. And I mean, that's very, you know, that's that's very encouraging that we're back. We're really back. And that will last a long time. Don't you think? Absolutely. The well, the importance of NATO and the importance of collective security is very clear. You know, one of the other takeaways here is it's not always got to be with arms. This whole economic, the sanctions and the diplomatic, these countries have all moved relatively quickly, very fast. Germany has changed within two or three weeks its attitude toward now. It seems to be all in. And and that is that is something that getting back to that to have this tighter in there. I do think that we we did some damage in the last administration, we in a way with the NATO, I think we undermined it to what extent did that motivate Putin to become more aggressive, you have to think about that. But it's clear we're going to go back to stronger NATO. We've we stress tested our quick reaction forces. I think they're going to have to make some adjustments there.  What is it they're going to buy? That's going to have an impact on the US too. Now, I mean, there's a lot of jets. We sell jets. We sell missiles. And they're going to buy those and the so. Well, what we do, it's clear, it's clear that what we do has an effect on other countries. They're potentially aggressive countries. What we do is it helps to maintain the world order, the liberal world order. And if we're active and moral about it, we will maintain the world order. If we turn our backs on it, then this will happen. And so, you know, I totally agree that our participation, our lack of participation in the last few years encouraged Putin. Our participation now is going to show him a new way. And all of that is going to show the Chinese that that we're here. But we're going to, you know, another interesting thing is we don't really have a NATO here in the Pacific. We have alliances, a lot of bilateral alliances. We have this ANCAS, which is this new arrangement between Australia, UK and the US, where we're now getting Australia to be nuclear, have nuclear capability. So how would it, how would this train, if you think about how were these events, if China turned it and was going to do something similar in Taiwan, how could we pull together the rest of Asia and the West from Pacific to coerce China? Would we be as effective? So I do think that you're going to see heightened activity here to pull the countries of Asia together and start to, you know, get towards this idea of collective security. That's what we need. Absolutely. And we're learning lessons on a daily basis about that. Thank you so much, Emo. Emerson, Gardner, Lieutenant General Marine Corps, retired. Thank you so much for joining us today on the military in Hawaii. There's much more to discuss and I hope we can circle back with you soon. Okay. Thanks very much.