This 2021 Jeep Gladiator Mojave Edition in Sting Gray Clear Coat is stock number 21J148. We are here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. You're new and used Jeep and Jeep Gladiator headquarters. I am Brett and I am excited to show you this brand new Jeep Gladiator today. This is our first Mojave in the Sting Gray color. Really good color for the Gladiators and Wranglers that we found. And it's been probably one of the hottest colors we've seen in some time as far as popularity goes among Jeep owners and enthusiasts. And excited to get one with the Mojave package because I think everybody kind of likes that orange accent that the Mojave package brings to the Gladiator vehicle. We shoot all of our videos in 1080p 60 frames per second so if you have HD capabilities on your computer, tablet, smartphone or TV, turn them on right now because it is definitely your best way to check out the color, styling and options of the vehicle.  So the Mojave package gives you the desert rated badge with the gray and orange color scheme on there. You get the Jeep logo with the orange outlines. You'll notice that this one has the rock rails which comes standard on the Mojave package. You get the special 17 inch painted and polished aluminum Jeep rims. And it has the Falcon Wild Peak AT tires. These are LT285 70R 17s with an all terrain tread pattern on them. You'll see that this one has a lift kit from the factory. It's actually the tallest Gladiator you can get. It's a little bit taller than the Rubicon even. And you get these Fox shocks with the gelance bumpers and bypass, internal bypass on there. And there are the gelance bumpers as well. And they actually are all aluminum so they dissipate heat pretty well and meant for off-roading of course. This one has the color match hard top and the color match fenders. You get the Mojave sticker on the side of the hood.  You get the high air intake so it's high off the ground so you're not going to get a lot of sand and dust in there is the idea behind that. You get the LED running lights, the LED headlamps and LED halo lighting on there. These are running lights as well. You also get the LED fog lamps and that's an option on this vehicle. If it's $16.95 to get the LED lighting group definitely if you're actually going to be off-roading and everything with this a good package to get. You get the orange tow hooks in front. This one has the front facing trail cam which is pretty cool. We'll check that out in a little bit. A couple of little Easter eggs. You get these sandals and the plastic part right there. You get the Jeep climbing up the side of the windshield. You get the Torx 50 indicators on the door hinges so you know which Torx wrench to use to get the doors off. This one has the enter and go proximity keyless entry system which is an option as well. We're actually going to go through all the options on here. I'm not going to go through everything on the standard features but all the options I will go through. Feel free to pause this at any point or fast forward if you don't care. 3.6 liter with the electronic start stop, 8 speed automatic transmission. You get the Jeep wave membership. Everything on the left there is your standard equipment including those fox shocks. The heavy-duty Dana 44 inch wide front and rear axle has a 410 axle ratio. All the skid plates that come with this vehicle and everything else. Your optional equipment starts right there. The Stingray Clearcoats 245, the Leather Trim Bucket Seats are $16.95. You get the trailer tow package which is $3.95 and the premium LED lighting group I'm sorry is $13.65 not $16.95. My bad on that. You do get the 8.4 radio and premium audio group which is $19.95. It gives you the nav off-road pages, Alpine premium sound system, Serious XM Guardian for a year, and Serious Travelink and Traffic Plus for five years. You also get the auto dimming mirror there. Jeep Active Safety Group which gives you the blind spot and cross-path detection system is $8.95. Adaptive cruise and forward collision warning plus is $7.95. Tonneau Cover on this vehicle by Mopar is $6.25. Automatic transmission is $2,000. The select track full-time four-wheel drive system is $6.95. Remote keyless proximity entry is $6.45. Color match hard tops $24.95 and the color match fenders are $6.95. So a total of almost $3,200 just to get those color match fenders and hard top. Wireless Bluetooth speakers $2.95. The 17 inch rims are $9.95. The remote start system is $4.95. The spray and bed liners $4.95. And the forward-facing trail cam is $5.95. Total MSRP on this vehicle is $6,205. If you want to get your summit price in the upper right-hand produce screen is a link to our website with all the rebates and incentives on this particular truck. So click that and check us out there. You're going to get 22 highway miles per gallon, 17 city and 19 average. The front crash test rating is $4.05. And rollovers 3, they don't rate it for the other tests. We'll take a look as long as we're on this side at the wireless Bluetooth speaker. So it's located behind the back seats here. And since I'm on this side already, I can show that to you. So it's right here and it fits right into there. And it actually charges when it's stored back here. So it kind of snaps in and that's always a nice little feature to have. If you're tailgaining or out somewhere and just want to listen to some music. The other cool thing is that these back seats lock with your ignition key. So you want to put valuables back there or you don't want to steal your speaker. You can lock that up. We'll continue on the outside. I do want to show you all the skid plates on this vehicle because there are quite a few of them. Basically the hole underneath is protected. And that's if you're off-roading in the desert. You don't want a rocks to mess up any of your driveline or anything like that. You get those fox shocks back here as well. And you can see everything is very heavy duty on this vehicle. And that's for off-roading in the desert. A lot of demand put on the vehicle. Also note when you get the Color Match Fenders on the Gladiators and the Wranglers, they put a 3M tape on there to help protect that from any sandblasting or rocks on the road. Which is nice that Jeep's thinking about your investment. You get the orange tow hooks back here as well as the towing package. Four pin, seven pin wiring, receiver hitch, those backup parking sensors. Tailgate's nice and clean looking. You get the shock down assist tailgate almost to the point where it doesn't want to go down. But the spray and bed liner, that's your bag for your front hard top pieces. And then you do have the LED bed lighting back here. You turn those lights on with your cargo lamps which are located inside the truck. But very nice spray and bed liner by Mopar. It's kind of like a linex. Kind of grippy but still smooth enough that you can slide stuff on it. That Mopar tonneau covers a really good looking high quality piece. LED tail lamps as well. Just a really good looking Jeep. You get the blind spot monitoring, heated mirrors, entering ghost system inside. You get the black leather interior with the orange stitching. You get the Mojave stitched into the backrest. Really nice leather driver seat height adjuster, lumbar.  We'll hop inside and turn the ignition on so we can check out the radio and everything inside here. You can see you get the Jeep animation when you turn everything on. You do get the digital speedometer, outside temp, compass display. You have your fuel, water temp there as well. Also, whether you're in two-wheel drive, four-wheel drive, all that right on the screen. And all those corners are configurable, the compass and the temp. You can get them to read pretty much whatever you want. You get the thumb pads on the steering wheel, the orange stitching is on there as well. Cruise controls, adaptive cruise control. So it'll actually keep your vehicle a certain distance from the person in front of you. Bluetooth and information center controls. On the left you do get the audio controls. On the back of the steering wheel, this one has the 8.4C radio, AMFMN Sirius XM radio capabilities. The factory nav, remember you get that Sirius Guardian for a year in traveling and traffic plus for five years. There's your radio controls and there's your Sirius.  And then you have your backup cam, which is really HD. I love that Jeep made all the Gladiators and Wranglers with HD cameras. Now you can even do the zoom right over the receiver hitch. So when you're hooking up to your boat, camper, or trailer, you can get hooked up the first time every time. And then this front facing cam is pretty cool. So it actually gives you like grid lines where your tires are going to go. So I can see if you're doing a lot of off-roning. You can kind of see where you're going to be heading and that you're not going to be getting into a problem or anything, which is pretty cool. And then you can clean the camera too. So it actually sprays a little bit of water or windshield washer fluid on there. So that's pretty cool too. And then you have all your different apps, including your projection manager, where you can project your cell phone to the screen via Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. So if you've got a different navigation system that you like to use better than the factory, you can project that to the screen and use that. We actually did a demo on Android Auto. If you want to check that out, it's in the upper right hand part of the screen. So click that and check us out there. You do get the off-road pages here as well. They do take a second to load. While they're loading, I will tell you you can do your climb controls on the more tactile buttons down there. It always says you may be lost but never stuck. And then you get your off-road pages here. So you got your steering angle, which is pretty cool. You have your transfer case, whether you're in two-wheel drive, four-wheel drive, high or low. Then you have your rear axle locker if it's locked or unlocked. So I guess if you didn't know how to read the buttons down here, you can do it up there. Then you have all your different gauges right there, including your latitude, longitude, your altitude.  And then you can check out the trail cam again from that particular screen. So lots of cool stuff that you can do with this radio, and it's all included with the radio. There's no subscription fee for any of the stuff that I just showed you. Down here you have start-stop capabilities, your stability control, your parking sensors. You can turn those off, and then you have crawl control right there. You can turn the whole screen off if you want. There are your window buttons, USB, AUGZ, and USB-C jack. Here's your axle lock. You can lock the rear axle only. You have your off-road mode, 8-speed automatic transmission, and your 4x4 shifter on the floor. You've got the 4-high auto and 4-high part-time, and then you have neutral, 4-low, and then, of course, 2-wheel drive. You get the heavy-duty chunky key fob, which I always liked on the Wranglers when they came out with them. You always know which keys are going to be in your pocket, nice and heavy. And then it kind of fits perfectly right in there, because it is a proximity key and it's a push-button start. That way you never lose your key while you're driving. It sits in there and you can still have drinks in there. So remote start on there as well. I do like the dash on here. You get this kind of a mineral gray metallic dash, and it's got a little bit of texture to it. I don't know if you can see that, but it's actually textured. It's not completely smooth. You get the orange vent bezels on there as well. The orange stitching on the dash. These hardtop pieces come off almost identically to the Wranglers. At least the front ones do. You get the SOS and assist buttons, the auto dimming mirror. And take note, you get seven little notches up there. I believe that's for your Bluetooth microphone. You do get the home link buttons for your garage door security systems and lighting systems. And we'll do one more walk around here on the vehicle after we check out the back seats. And then I got all the lights turned on so you can see with all the LED lights on. Back seats, plenty of room back here just like the Wranglers. You get the latch child safety system.  This is where you store all of your bolts for your hardtop, windshield, and doors. And once again, you can lock those back seats. These headrests do fold down for better visibility. It is a sliding rear window. It's manual sliding. And you do get a little bit of storage space back here as well. And of course you get the rear defrost. But very cool vehicle. Child safety locks on the back doors too. And we'll do one more final walk around here with all the lights on. Notice you do get the LED lights on the license plates, the LED lights on the tail lamps. And definitely the best looking Gladiator I have seen on our lot. We had a Hydro Blue Mojave which was really cool. You can check out that video if you want in the upper right hand part of the screen. But just a really good looking Wrangler. Love the color. And let me know what you think in the comments. Remember to like, subscribe, and share. And if you'd like to see more pictures of this Jeep or one of our other 450 new and used cars, trucks, SUVs, minivans, Wranglers, Gladiators, you name it, we got it. Go to that website right there, www.SummitAuto.com. Full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle from two locations all at SummitAuto.com. And if you'd like to check out more HD videos, you can go to youtube.com. Remember to like, subscribe, and share on this video and all the videos that you see there. In fact, in a second you will see a link to subscribe to our YouTube channel in the upper left. A link to more Gladiator videos like this one in the upper right. A link to this vehicle on our website in the lower left. And a link to our latest YouTube video in the lower right. Click those, check us out. And we're super excited to be offering the 2021 Jeep Gladiator in Stingray Clearcoat. Thanks again for checking out the video. And remember to like, subscribe, and share. Thanks again.


Mm-hmm. Actually, it's a big deal because this is their second attempt at running windows on An arm, I mean they've had No, it's good. Oh, did you see that Scott in our slack just said see you guys in an hour for the what Patrick got wrong this year event there is absolutely no basis for such a horrifyingly Aggressive remark. Yes, I think so. You should ban him from Facebook. I Think that's that's that should be our response to everything. That's gonna be my do thing. Oh, yeah Well, you're bad from Facebook now even though I you know, I'm we're not on Facebook. I'm not reporting you to Facebook That's just gonna be my response Well, hello everyone So I think the lineups fine now You fix the emails. Thank you Yeah, no, I was like wait a second. I just I Remembered putting putting them in in the order that I said No, it makes makes perfect sense. Um, yeah, and then I just Just in case you had read it before On line 43 I condensed both of them a bit. Yeah, thank you for that Of course Okay Is everybody ready to go? I'm ready Do a show. Yeah, let's Patrick was born in this state The state is ready Basically my catchphrase is I was born ready whenever Tom asks All right, sorry three two One the Daily Tech news show is brought to you by its global listener base not outside organizations to find out how you can contribute Go to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for December 5th 2017 from DTNS headquarters in Los Angeles I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feelin where there's a lot of fire smoke out of the beach I'm Sarah Lane and from the Finnish offices in Helsinki. I'm Patrick Beijo. I love how that sounds still I joined us also is our producer Roger Chang. How are you Roger? I am a Little I'm good. I'm good. He's under the weather. Apparently you've answered by coughing. I Apologize I have something in my throat. Okay, we'll let you take care of that and get into some tech things You should know The honor 7x phone is your story Sarah. So you should read it I will the honor 7x phone is now available in the US for pre-order for $200 delivering mid December It costs 270 pound sterling in the UK and 300 euros in Europe for some regions getting immediate shipping The 5.93 inch phone has a 2 to 1 display and a 2160 by 780 screen though no fast charging and no NFC Apple has begun selling an unlocked version of the iPhone 10 without a SIM card in the US Meaning you can activate it on any carrier You could also you could buy an unlocked phone previously by painful price But there was confusion about which models would work on which systems and all came with carrier SIM cards I was in getting a laptop repaired at an Apple store And I heard three different employees give three different answers on whether you could buy a phone unlocked Before this happens for this will help clear that up Samsung has begun mass production of the first 512 gigabyte embedded universal flash storage chip Paving the way for phones with 512 gigabytes of storage on one chip nice slim 512 gigabyte phones Chip has 860 megabyte per second sequential read speed 255 megabyte per second sequential write speed essentially that means you could pull over a 5 gigabyte HD video in about six seconds Google has pulled YouTube from the Amazon Echo show you might be like again Yes again and also announced that after January 1st YouTube will no longer work on fire TV boxes Google says part of the problem is Amazon doesn't carry Chromecast and Google Home and doesn't make Prime video available for Google Cast Yeah, but these these companies won't abuse their dominant market of positions. I swear. I swear Isn't that competition though, I Guess which extent maybe arguably yeah, yeah Now here are some more top stories Patrick Neiman labs Nicholas Nicholas Qua said he has learned that Apple acquired the pop-up archive Which makes tools that transcribe organize and search audio files its podcast search engine shut down November 28 Apple is still working on podcasts. I know that's why this is such big news I saw it like a near the top of tech meme today. I like okay. Yeah, I guess people were that worried. I Mean was anyone Under the impression that Apple was moving away from podcasts. No I'm not the thing is you're never sure it's been you know what 12 years and they seem like they would be They should be making more with podcasts, but they they never really are so everyone There's always in the air this impression that they're not, you know abandoning it completely But sort of leaving it as it is and and whatever in it So this looks makes it look like at least they're looking into stuff and you know, maybe Actually implementing new features like searching For inside podcasts through transcribing and stuff.  So and Apple really has a stronghold on the market. I know there are a lot of podcatchers Yeah used but that's 70% of people really equate with podcast. Yeah 70% of podcast traffic comes from items You know generally discovery discovery is the big thing. Yeah, I want to find a podcast usually that's the one place you go But that's why we need all of you to just tell people just a case or review us Well, moving on to another operating system entirely along with the release of Android 8.1 Google is releasing Android Oreo go to OEMs the low-end Android Configuration also comes with a suite of go versions of Google apps like maps Gmail YouTube assistant and others Android go works with devices with less than one gigabyte of RAM using less memory and less storage Also as part of the release Android Oreo 8.1 the burger emoji has relocated the cheese to above the meat patty Whoo, that was really stressful for a while the beer emoji as well No longer has a gap between the beer and the froth which like everyone knows is Impossible this is why you know, I'm boring at parties I'm more excited about Android go and the possibility for you know Accessible more useful smartphones to the developing market and low-end Users and cheap phones whereas most people very excited about the cheese being put in the right place on the burger About you I will admit the cheese the misplaced cheese even though once it was pointed out to me I was like yeah, that is weird never would have bothered me Never would have noticed. However Very upsetting. Hmm. No, I agree.  No, it was what they should have done is gotten rid of the the top circle of the yellow That's what was throwing people off what they were trying to do is show some froth in the glass Now the froth is just sitting on top of the glass. It looks even weirder to me Hmm, I suppose so but it needed fixing of some kind. I think you're right about everyone will agree about that The thing is as you know boring as you might be oh that does not look like there's some froth in the glass I'm looking at it again. It is definitely beer and then The stuff floating on nothing it is no no that you're wrong Tom. Sorry. No, that's the new one The new one has no froth in the glass now No, but look at the old one the old one was trying to show froth in the glass But they were showing the the top of the of the yellow beer which caused the problem because then it just looked empty Google devs Some of you are drinking beer. I'm sure of it What's the deal? And you know the thing is yes the important part of it is android go, you know orio go great fantastic But we have so many so few fun light-hearted That we can you know all together agree that this is just dumb fun I really think this story kind of serves a Coming together take a break purpose for everyone to have fun with so I feel Extra humbled that it took a french person to point that out to me All right, talk about the FCC then Yeah, this is going to cheer everybody up the US FCC wants to change isps from be considered common carriers back to being considered information services as they were before 2015 you all probably know that if you've been following the show Back in those heady days before 2015 at&t was sued by the us federal trade commission Over throttling its unlimited customers. This is the practice where they would say well, you're unlimited But if you use above this amount, we're going to slow down your speeds at&t argues that since it's a common carrier in voice Not data, but voice and because voice and data are part of a whole package The ftc has no jurisdiction over this matter Even though this is back when it was an information service And one of the arguments that ajet pi has been using is that it needs to be regulated as an information service And then the ftc can regulate it if at&t wins their case on those grounds Then the reclassification of isp's information services would mean that in many cases neither the FCC or the ftc could handle customer complaints about service now the FCC is voting on reclassification december 14th Some people have asked for that vote to be delayed. The FCC says it's not going to delay it So this at&t court case is likely to be decided after the vote is already been made That's so that's all you have to say is the front Yeah I'll leave that one to you Oh fair enough to at&t at&t trying to say look Hey, we'd like to be a common carrier when it's beneficial to us and an information service when it's beneficial to us And neither when it's beneficial to us. I mean, that's what they're going to do, you know, don't don't get me wrong but That's not the way it's supposed to work and when one of the Safeguards that is being presented is well, don't worry if these companies have abusive practices that we can no longer regulate Because they're not common carriers. The ftc is the proper place for this anyway This would make that less possible I mean the whole sort of like common carrier and voice thing is also really convoluted because You can do a lot of voice not in a traditional voice sense, which at&t is arguing, you know, I mean It's like to say like oh well, hold on a second These are you know the the way that you know our company our company. Um, what we provide is split up is It depends on how you use it Yeah No, and and what at&t is trying to say is like we're a common carrier. So you can't touch this I mean she's like, yeah, but that's an info that was an information service Like yeah, but it's part of the whole package and the package is generally under a common carrier So you can't touch that Which would give them an out for everything in the future Yeah, it's basically the problem you're completely right that at&t is doing what it should be doing defending its interest and the The way it's supposed to work the way it's built is that you have a balance for that with Government organizations that provide that that check and and those balances so Trying to remove it entirely is probably not Something to look forward to well I think it's an example of the problem that internet service isn't an information service or a telecommunication service and so therefore You need a different way of approaching is that just clearly would define If somebody is also providing voice service as a common carrier That doesn't stop them from being regulated on their data services. That there just isn't a rule necessarily like that Which is why the court has to weigh in and don't forget the court may say you're full of it at&t The ftc still gets to regulate you here. Yeah, hopefully Instagram has updated its stories function for android and ios to automatically archive them to private To a private part of your profile the feature will be turned on by default, but can be turned off You can then make what's called stories highlights by adding up to 100 old story clips which you can display on your profiles. So basically they don't have to go away forever now So if I understand this right This is you know, if i'm perusing instagram stories of my friends This is something that I will have seen already But then a friend can sort of promote as like best of highlights later on. No, it's only your own stuff Only no, but but it's sure it's my own stuff But let's say i'm you know, i'm looking at what you have decided to highlight again Oh, you're like you're looking at my profile. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So, okay, um, I guess I don't know the thinking behind this is is I guess uh facebook slash instagram is sort of like You know, think about all those stories that come and go and you know, if within a 24-hour period, you know Sarah doesn't look at what tom has shared. It's gone forever. We can make use of this information again. Um, it's I don't really play around in stories all that often, but I know a lot of people who do so I guess recycling content that you like and you want to resurface again isn't Terrible. Well the premise of snapchat was ephemerality, right? And so and so instagram stories was supposed to be that for instagram and it started to eat a little of snapchat's lunch One thing snapchat had is memories so you could save them when you wanted to And instagram didn't have that so instagram didn't want better and said not only can you save them But you can create these little profile Highlight reels that you can put up there and when people come to your profile They'll see sarah's great summer and it's all your favorite stories of the summer all in one place You know Thing um as much as a sort of novel concept. Ooh interesting, you know We don't have to think about everything being saved forever That is so done and it's been done for a while. I mean uh snapchat once they allowed you to like save your own snaps It's like no They everyone knows that people want to save the stuff that they like the best Um, and none of these services are really ephemeral anymore. Sure. You can use them that way But there are all these little tricks now to be like well if If you really like that like cool filter that you added you can save it and you know throw it up somewhere else I mean half of the photos that I see on facebook Are like screen caps that somebody took from a snap that they you know had made public at some point Because you can tell by the filters. So the whole thing is a little bit like a little bit of a failed experiments True true well Perhaps this will not be a failed experiment asus lenovo and hp introduce windows computers that run on qualcomm snapjag And 835 processor with near instant boot lte connections and a 20 hour battery life They run windows 10 s which uses an emulator to run 32 bit windows apps Users can upgrade to windows 10 pro for free cannot run software that uses kernel mode drivers So no antivirus no games with antitheat software that kind of thing the 12.2 inch hp NV x2 tablet weighs 1.5 pounds the 13.3 inch asus no logo goes for $599 At 64 gigabytes and 799 for 256 gigabytes lenovo will announce the model in the coming weeks qualcomm also announced the successor to the snapdragon 835 will be called The snapdragon 845 Shocker it will pair with the x20 lte modem which provides gigabit connectivity Yeah, so these are uh microsoft's second attempt at arm stuff, right like uh, hey that windows rt thing That was a bad dream. It's kind of a nightmare. Forget about it. This is the new way They announced this a while ago where they're going to use an emulator so that basically any program for windows will run on this 64 bit isn't ready yet That can be a problem for some people, but it's coming I don't know what they're going to do about this kernel stuff, but you can still run windows defender It's not like you're without antivirus. It's just the third party stuff Uh, and these things are super light super slim And I I think they may be somewhat appealing to folks although When you look at chromebooks These prices don't feel as cheap as maybe they should be I i'm not sure the price is going to be the issue I think people are going to want, you know, tablet sized some people are going to want tablet sized devices That are actually full fledged windows. I mean for me the no games Well, no some of the games was a little bit of a ah, but To be honest, I doubt even a an 835 would run the kind of games i'm interested in So it is definitely uh, I mean, okay It is way way way way way better than windows rte and Comparing it to it even though I understand the the logic behind it is almost doing it a disservice because this is 90 95 of windows when rte was kind of a weird offshoot Yeah, this is going to be more capable than a chromebook arguably because it's able to run most windows programs Yeah, I think I want to add one real quick thing The lesson from ibm's pc jr. Which was their fall-on computer to the ibm pc was that it was only 89 compatible with the ibm pc if you if users feel that they will not have the full windows experience With it regardless of what it's on they're going to feel cheated and they're probably going to steer towards Something that offers a full windows experience because it's called windows if they called it something else I think they would have less of an issue and and with with most people This is going to have the full windows experience. That's the big difference between this nrt is with the emulator It's no different than buying a low powered windows machine in a way Where you can say like oh, it's only got a 32 bit processor. So you know some of the apps out there won't work Most people won't notice a better way of putting it is is you know, it's not 90 percent of windows It's windows for 90 percent of the people Maybe hey folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines at daily tech headlines dot com Also available as a flash briefing on the amazon echo on your google home and in the anchor app Go download that too YouTube said monday plans to have more than 10 000 people on staff in 2018 that would be By most estimates about 25 percent more people than they have now to identify inappropriate content These are people who just look at what the algorithm flagged and try to make sure that the bad stuff doesn't stay up YouTube hopes that this will not only stop objectionable content But also help stop false positives daily tech news show regularly gets flagged as inappropriate for advertising for some reason Every time i appeal and every time it passes the appeal So i'm not sure what's going on Not the only one on youtube that says hey my stuff keeps getting flagged and i don't know why YouTube ceo susan wajiski also said the company will launch a new comment moderation tool and shut down comments altogether in some cases Now patrick you noted along with a couple other stories that This is another step in the march of these companies Taking over responsibility for what people say on their platform Yeah, and i mean we do also have stories about twitter Having issues and facebook basically having i guess false positives or arguable decisions And this is the beginning of the opening of the hashtag hell portal hashtag portal to hell as Our friend justin robert young christened it Because it's true that once you put the decision power in the hands of the companies as opposed to maybe the hands of the law or the courts or an outside organization it does kind of create those situations where Yes, you probably get a lot more of the inappropriate stuff out of the system But also you're gonna have some people who disagree with the stuff you put out of the system and for me um, I used to be very much in the camp of This is a horrible idea because we don't want youtube to decide what we can or cannot see Same deal with facebook and twitter I think everyone would agree that in an ideal situation we have The rule of law and that's how things are decided But as the years have been coming and more and more content is on those platforms I've shifted my opinion to well It's not really possible. The idea is great, but it's not really possible for the law with a capital l To decide on all of those So I do end up thinking that there is a need for those companies to organize and somehow at least You know do some pre-work on on some of it and i'm wondering if even though it does mean Portal to hell hell portal Issues and I wonder if you know You guys have sort of evolved your thinking or if you were always on that Both or if you think what's happening with those, you know facebook and twitter issues is Such a problem that we just shouldn't have them decide Well, I think it's just it speaks to the fact that algorithms don't understand the nuances that humans are still able to get around I mean the youtube situation is a really great example of that youtube needs to hire a bunch of humans to You know double check an algorithm that isn't always flagging stuff that you know people are complaining about and saying this is wildly inappropriate Why is this on your network and I mean most people, you know Yes, youtube shouldn't necessarily be deciding what we're seeing and not seeing but But in the case of what's going on with kids programming or programming You know that has been directed to kids a lot of it is like whoa. It's kind of crazy. This is not right So it seems like a good example right me Where a lot of people are going to be hired and then probably let go once the algorithm gets better Hold on no The the humans mess up a lot too. Don't forget that uh in one of these stories It's it's mentioned that that facebook moderators don't see the context of posts when they're reviewing them So if someone is in the context of a long thread saying something that makes sense as a joke Like kill them all right Out of context they could say well, that sounds like a threat banning that person And and that's that's an example of that has happened So I I don't think it's as clear cut as humans or algorithms are better or not I think the algorithms can get better And certainly it's showing you're right sarah. They need humans to do this The problem is youtube tried to benefit from Saying they were one thing while being perceived as another and by that I mean They said and were an open platform that they were not responsible for the content You know buy or beware when you come in here. You may see everything We are a web publishing platform. We don't hold people responsible. That's between you and them But then tried to take advantage of them being perceived as oh, I go to youtube to watch this So that it could become the dominant video platform And be seen as a channel and get the benefits of being perceived as a channel without having to have those responsibilities And that's what's happening here And I think facebook and twitter had a little bit of the of the same thing Especially twitter where they said we're just a web publishing platform. We don't take responsibility But also we're the place come to us We're the channel and they acted that way. I don't think I agree. Oh go ahead Patrick I think there's a little bit of of something disingenuous here in your description because it's not just that youtube then decided All right, we're going to change things. I think a lot of public pressure was put on them and on twitter and on facebook To regulate those those uh comments posts videos, whatever It's not that they you know Wanted to say oh no, you know, we thought we didn't want to touch on any touch anything But in the end we're going to anyway. It's that a lot of people were saying hey You're a huge company. You need to police these things these things. No, I I agree with you What what i'm saying is not what you think I said Oh, okay What i'm saying is youtube wanted to be seen as a big channel like hey come to us for all your things We're youtube come watch youtube but as soon as someone said hey, but there's this really odd thing You shouldn't have that on your channel that we're not the channel We're an open platform. They tried to play both. Yeah the fence and then what you're saying is what has happened now is the public Pressure has caused them to start to back off a little and have to deal with the consequences of that Well, I mean i'm at the public pressure is You know youtube is different than something like twitter or facebook because we've been throwing out those other social networks You know when my friend, I don't have children But lots of friends who do when my friend's two year old is having a meltdown in the back of the car They don't say sarah hand them your phone and you know fire up twitter It's play a youtube video and I go which one and they're like any of them if it says wheels on the bus Just play it So that's the thing is that youtube has to recognize that Children are watching video youtube has become a huge resource of just like play a video for a kid Yes, you get to that point you have to recognize that if something is going to be fed to a kid that seems to have a Pretty innocent title and you know doesn't have a parental adversary warning, but is super weird and possibly dangerous then The network can't totally ignore that stuff the original They flag videos like like dating tech news show for no good reason So well, but that's because they're they're using clubs and sticks to try to solve the problem Basically, no, but that's part of it. That's part of it. So then the question becomes Do we Agree that they should regulate stuff even though we're going to have those educate cases where they Take stuff away that shouldn't be taken away Well, I guess where I'm at should be a free-for-all the horse is out of the barn at this point And and so youtube has no other choice, but to go try to get the horse and put it back in the barn Uh, or at least put a saddle on the horse or you know Do some horse Yeah, uh Take the horse for a ride feed the horse something the horse is hungry for goodness sake youtube stop abusing horses, but Uh, I will stop abusing the metaphor and get back to saying yes. They that now they're now it's damage control It's like, okay What are the worst problems and how do we get on those and how do we solve those and well? We'll throw 10 000 people at it If that's what it takes because we have to and we have the resources and we got that big If in the beginning though, they had held Themselves to the line of you don't watch youtube you watch channels on youtube Just like you don't go to date. You don't go to wordpress. You go to daily tech news show dot com Which happens to use wordpress, uh, they wouldn't have these problems, but they wanted to be youtube So now they have to take responsibility for it Yeah, I I think the responsibility was at least that's how it looks like from France and from europe we wanted them to have the the responsibility for it and ultimately I I think they have to whether they want to enough than you wanted that but I mean in 2005 I don't think you cared. Well, no, of course. Yeah for the past few years And and nobody goes after blogspot another google property and says you're responsible for this blog Because they're not out there saying blogspot brings you all this stuff. They're just saying the blogs Then talk about wordpress.com which is big enough, right? I was just using that because it's a google property. But sure wordpress is big enough But they hang it back and they're like, we're just the platform and we're not not going to try to pretend like we're anything else Or take advantage of that I I I think it's a matter of size In this case does matter and even wordpress.com is not big enough and not controversial enough I would argue that but Maybe you have a different opinion post it at our facebook group And but you know be careful you might get have it taken down facebook.com Slash group slash daily tech news show and thanks to everybody participates in our subreddit as well You can submit stories of vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit dot come. What's in the mail bag, sarah Well, we got an email from paul and this is uh, he calls himself the web development instructor from houston Hello, paul. Hope houston is treating you well. This is in response to a conversation We had yesterday about underscores versus dashes and urls and and elsewhere So paul says dashes are inherently better than underscores and urls because underscores often get confused for spaces By the fact that they're at the bottom of the line sometimes they just aren't seen other times covered up with underlines While most people don't type urls. It still happens when google recommended dashes I think it was saying there's a small but consistent secondary seo bump by using dashes rather than underscores It's not that they explicitly added it to the algorithm But it's an effect that always shows up So while I agree with anneal dash and his premise that google influences how a content is created too much perhaps The he probably picked the worst example to start explaining the argument with it's both the most benign thing to worry about And the wrong basis for the argument I disagree with paul saying it's the wrong basis for the argument In fact, I think it even strengthens his argument to say hey when matt cuts said this all he met was People generally don't confuse underscores for dashes So you know maybe use dashes, but he didn't explain that and instead made it sound like a pronouncement from on high And it began This feeling that I must do what google says Uh, and so I I think it strengthens it to say it was an innocent beginning That led to yeah, I I'm not sure how many people are confusing underscores for spaces, but Then again, I get a lot of email from people who are emailing to different sarah lane. So yeah, no, that's true Andrew think it happened. Well, there you go folks. Uh, we're all done for the day. Thank you for joining us And thank you to patrick beija for being here as always on tuesdays patrick What's going on in your world? Uh, a bunch of stuff, but you can check all of it out at frenchspin.com where I host my two shows That I do in english pixels about gaming.  So if you're interested in games, you can listen to that and then listen to pixels And the philis club, which is coming up on episode 100 pretty soon We're gonna do something fun. I hope for episode 100 and uh, we'll talk to about it early congratulations on your 100th episode That's a good milestone. I am confident your episode 100 is going to be amazing That might be a hint Prediction Hey, and if you want that dts labs episode that patrick was just mentioning it if you're a patreon Supporter you already have it go check out patreon.com slash dts. Just put it up this morning It'll come to everybody on saturday Uh, the dts labs episodes go up on patreon as soon as they're public as they're done And then go up on the weekends for everybody else So get in there and join patreon if you've got only a dollar a month. It doesn't take much It'll super help us uh to do more. We want to go to ces. We want to broadcast some ces more And bring you more stories from there We want to do all kinds of things and you make that happen Including more round table show you like those round table shows we get more of those the more people support us at patreon.com Slash dts if you have anything to tell us questions you ask Feedback at daily tech news show.com is the place to do it We read everything and we try to put as much as we can on the show and we even have some ideas To you know have a place for more of your emails to to shine and and and come to light We are live money through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 utc at elphakeekradio.com and diamondclub.tv And our email address or url rather is dailytechnewshow.com back tomorrow with scott johnson talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frogpants.com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program Good show Good show Good conversation It's stuff I think it's uh, this is not unusual for you and i patrick, but I think we were coming at this story from two different ends I was coming at it from youtube always said it was this But they didn't act that way and this is what they get and you were coming at it from youtube started doing this And we need to make them stop No, I would know I I actually maybe I didn't express myself well YouTube wasn't doing it and we wanted them to do well sure Yeah, used to youtube started allowing everything on the platform in in my head And we needed them to stop allowing everything on the platform. But yeah, you were looking at it I think and I think this may be something That can happen Especially For somebody like me who was covering youtube when it was brand new Uh versus it had to get big here before it started to spread outside So by the time it comes to europe and people start using it there outside of the early adopters It's already big And it's already making that That thing where it's like, you know, we're we're actually too big to act the way we're acting But we're going to keep acting that way anyway Yes, I mean Maybe there's that's part of it. But you know those things Come pretty quickly to to our markets YouTube was maybe You could access it immediately and then it became sure. Yeah Yeah, it became big a little bit later, but not that long it spreads really really fast as soon as it's available and that's why they sometimes delay it, but As soon as it's a video youtube got big when would you say in the u.s. Maybe we don't really remember 2006 Seven oh that it wasn't big in 2006. Oh, yeah. No by 2007 it was we were having meetings at sea net about like Maybe we should have our stuff on youtube. This is pretty big Right, but big for the tech industry where people were like, uh, maybe we should put stuff there Uh, maybe I mean, yeah, if it's 2007, I don't feel like it was big in in france. So maybe that's The different yeah, I may be wrong But but my premise is that you know, if youtube had stuck to we're just a platform, right? We're just a place where you can publish things and really push the channel branding, right youtube is the tool Not the destination And allowed people to have like vanity URLs and things like that. It wouldn't have this problem No, yeah, no way. Absolutely way. I No way. No, it's like I mean it's it's I yeah, I don't think they they could have um, because Even if they had pushed the vanity URLs and stuff like that, it's still the consistent youtube Experience brand and most channels, especially those why is theory trying to Do stuff No, I really don't think that would have been possible.  No, that's what I'm saying if they would have said look, we are a tool And our brand is you want to publish a video channel come to youtube.com rather than being like a destination They wouldn't have these problems. Yeah, but then you're saying that would have been a bad choice for them Which is a whole different conversation. No, I'm saying you're talking about a different product Yes, but it was the product that their premise was built on which was we're not the people publishing the stuff I think there's a difference if you if you're really mean it then you build a different product the product they built Even though they were saying, oh, we're not, you know, they were just using it as the web We're not, you know responsible for the comments on our site. Um Or the content anything. Yeah, uh, and I don't think they have to be is what I'm saying I think there is a way for for a company to operate and say no, we are just the platform We are just the technology for people to use But that's not what youtube wanted to be they wanted to have all the benefits of being the destination without any of the responsibility for the content But I think the problem that we're facing and sorry roger um but the problem that we're facing is that When something becomes this problematic When you can see Isis beheading people on a platform Then people are going to be looking for Someone who is responsible for this and they're going to find it And if in in those cases even if youtube had I mean, I don't know The the things would have gone Hey wire somehow i'm not sure exactly how but they would have well, I mean you don't blame the isp This is the one bringing there was a one bringing it to you Well, but yeah, I'm saying like there there are levels right and so it's all about where you draw the line And youtube tried to straddle the line and if we had found no Let's say, you know ethereum takes off and and some kind of dark net something or whatever If it comes down to it the isps would have been found made responsible for policing this technically You know at some point at some but we don't do that with mail or phone, right? We don't hold the telephone company responsible for conversations happening over the phone No, we don't you're right, but it's not the same world I think What we're real the whole thing we're realizing now is that the web Is a special case and this is why we're asking them to police it and not Saying well, okay, you know that the courts will deal with it That is the entire reason for it because the courts can't whereas for telephones So it's a failure of law if that's the case in my opinion. Well, it absolutely is It's just that getting youtube the getting getting companies to police it is is a band-aid and probably not a very good one Yeah, but then we need to hire 20 000 people to police youtube right Not necessarily if we have the right laws then the law can pressure companies to say you have to do this Uh, and and maybe I don't know maybe we need 20 000 people to disagree with police youtube But maybe we come up with a principle that says here's who's responsible for what that works Yeah, but then you can go and you know you know condemn how do you say it in english like The the result of the lawsuit is a Judgment judgment. Yeah, and and judge every video like have a judge or a clerk look at every video and say this one It's already true of everything right you have to but once a judge has ruled and everybody pretty much agrees Okay, that's the precedent then you don't have to have a judge go after every case because people start to act like Okay, I know what the judge is going to say so i'm going to avoid that. That's how law is supposed to work I disagree. I think this is the big issue with the internet It's not the the system the legal system we have is not applicable to every little tweet or You know or or comment on facebook It's but but if there was clear if there was a clear procedure for who is responsible for what Then it would be but you still need to go and have the judge You know look at the case and decide on rudder is dying here um and decide on each Uh individual case and then sent do the sentencing. Oh, you know You have a law that says here's who's responsible for what and then if they don't ask act in that responsible way Then you take them to court. You don't have to have a court judge every post But then so youtube is responsible for enforcing the decision of We we need to decide that that's what's happening now No, what's happening now is corporations are handling things by public relations rather than us deciding Well, what is the best way to handle this? Uh, not exactly. I think there's some of it not there's some of it, but they're not handling it by public relations They're having people look at each instance of questionable No, if this was not handled by public relations, it had been solved right now What it's been is like, ah, throw this at the matter for now because that'll get people off our backs for a little while And it keeps dragging on and it keeps not working How can you oversimplify it like this when they're trying to do it one way they are they have edge cases that Don't work out because the decision is never black or white is it's always complicated And so we have all of these issues with you know, uh, someone saying kill old people And and that is taken out of they can't I mean Again, we could talk about this for 50 hours. I want to point out that I'm trying to have this argument while publishing the show So I'm if I'm losing it said I'm out of this Sorry, sarah. Sorry, roger Oh, no, I'm uh, very entertained Um, I was just waiting for a title if oh end of burger gate Okay, this is one of those days where I just picked it because we were having too good of a conversation going on Oh, okay End of burger gate retroactively but It was up at the top sounded fun Why not? From all the yelling. I'm sorry. Yeah Um, but uh, you know what that that conversation was pretty good. Yeah, it was Almost east meets west like Oh, yeah Yeah Just a lot of arguing roger's not listening right now is he? You can see anything I didn't say anything. I didn't hear anything. I know we know I am innocent your owner. I am not involved in this Uh, all right, I'm going to log off But don't log off for too long Uh, I'm going to log off for 35 minutes 30 35 of your french minutes metric minutes Are we starting up at 245 is that I mean as far as people on this live stream are concerned We're starting up on December 28th Right. No, the time and space is a flat circle. We don't know but for our purposes For you know, we're totally not pre-recording a show that is going to go out on December 28th Oh, no, of course. Of course. Yeah Just uh, I mean are we But but seriously Why don't we uh, we know we're all done here. So uh, roger, why don't you end the end the broadcast? Thanks everybody. Bye


Hey everyone, I just wanted to let you know about another podcast I've been listening to lately. It's called Democracy-ish, and it covers stories like the one we're covering today on Don't Call Me Resilient. The hosts, Danielle and Wajahat, break down the chaotic politics in the US from a black and brown perspective. They keep things real, and they have a great goal, to envision a multiracial democracy that actually works. Anyways, I like it, and I think you might too. You can find Democracy-ish wherever you get your podcasts. From The Conversation, this is Don't Call Me Resilient. I'm Vinitha Srivastava. During a time period, particularly in 2020, when there was an upswing in that movement, when people were talking about abolishing the police, about defunding the police, finding alternatives to public safety, the city apparatus, the state, instead of doing any of that, decided to double down here in Atlanta and dust off the idea of a cop city, a large-scale militarized police base that was meant to learn tactics and strategies on urban warfare, crowd control, civil disbursement, which was meant to move against community organizers and activists. Earlier this week, nearly five dozen people appeared in a courthouse outside Atlanta, Georgia to answer criminal racketeering charges brought against them by the state. The charges are related to protests against a proposed paramilitary police and fire training services facility that's been nicknamed Cop City. Cop City is a project that the Atlanta Police Association started fundraising for in the middle of the 2020 Black Lives Matter nationwide protests. Georgia prosecutors have called the demonstrators militant anarchists, but many of those charged say they were simply attending a rally or a concert in support of the Stop Cop City movement. The protesters, their lawyers and their supporters who rallied outside the courthouse this week say the government is using heavy-handed tactics to silence the movement. The RICO charges brought against the demonstrators essentially accused them of being part of organized crime and carry a potential sentence of up to five to 20 years in prison. Legal experts worry about the type of precedent this might set for our right to protest. It's a case a lot of people are following nationally and internationally for that reason. Today we have one of the leaders of the Stop Cop City movement with us. Kamau Franklin is a longtime community organizer and the founder of Community Movement Builders. He is also a lawyer and was an attorney for 10 years in New York City with his own practice in criminal, civil rights and transactional law. He now lives in Atlanta. Also joining us is Zora Ahmed, assistant professor of law at the University of Georgia, a former public defender in New York. She too has been watching this case closely. So yesterday on Monday, November 6th, activists appeared in court to answer the charges against them related to their activism against what's known as Cop City. Kamau, you were there, you were at the courthouse. Can you tell us what the feeling was among the protesters and their supporters? I think the feeling amongst the protesters and supporters was one of, we have your back. We see you! We love you! We see you! We love you! We see you! We put on, we as well as the other collectives and organizations and individuals, a rally and demonstration beforehand, which was really festive. There were some powerful speeches made as defendants walked in, they walked in under an arch way that was created and to the tune of... You won't break my soul! You won't break my soul by Beyonce. So shout out to the Beehive. So that was something that was trying to give some energy to folks as they fight some really serious charges. And most of the folks who've been arrested and charged, not only are facing Rico charges, but a lot of them are facing domestic terrorism charges. There's white collar charges associated with several folks and there's other criminal charges associated. So we understand that a lot of the folks and activists and organizers and everyday people, just to point out, is that a lot of the people who were arrested were not people who had been organizing and cop city work for any extensive amount of time. There were people who actually just came down to participate in a week of action or who came to their first protest who had no idea that part of participating in these actions or to participate against cop city meant that they were going to be charged with domestic terrorism and then later Rico charges. What the Rico, can you explain what that is? For folks who don't know what that is? Rico is a racketeering charge that says that there's a criminal enterprise that is afoot that's been identified by the authorities. If you are someone who's standing out and watching as well as someone who is considered to be accused of committing a murder, that you could be all charged along the same lines as part of this criminal conspiracy. And so for the purposes of this Rico charge, they are equating organizers and activists who for the first time in their lives came to a music festival as being involved in a criminal enterprise. This criminal enterprise is not something that's traced back directly to cop city, but that's traced back directly through their own indictment as the movement that's been opposed to police violence since 2020. I say that because their indictment states very clearly that the so-called criminal enterprise in their mind started the day George Floyd was murdered by the police. They mark that as the beginning date of the so-called criminal enterprise. And so it's very important to keep that in mind that they're not just criminalizing the stop cop city movement, they're criminalizing the entire movement against police violence that's been afoot for the last several years, but particularly that had an upswing and movement activity after George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Rashard Brooks, and others were murdered in 2020.   Take your knee! It's so intense that these everyday people, as you say, to go to a protest and hold a sign or I've read in many articles, sit on a blanket and participate in the protest that way. What seemed like a civil right in the United States and yet they're facing domestic terrorism charges and criminal conspiracy charges, how much prison time might they face? It might be upwards of 15 or 20 years that they are facing the district attorney, the prosecutor yesterday offered the first plea deal and these will change over the next several months, but they actually offered a plea deal which was, if I'm not mistaken, like five years of actual jail time or prison time and then another five years of probation. The fact that the criminalization is taking place and the seriousness of the charges, again, and I just wanna make sure this is clear for folks, you had people who showed up at a music festival, were surrounded by the police. ID's were checked. If your ID was in state, you were actually released. If your ID was an out of state ID or you were arrested and charged with domestic terrorism and now part of those charges include the RICO conspiracy charges. So this is definitely a criminal conspiracy by the state authorities against movement. That's clearly what's been happening here. You had 61 folks in the court, November 6th, but there are actually more than 200 criminal acts that the protesters face. Zora, can we talk a little bit about this? Is this a new thing or is this something that's been a pattern in the US? The nature of RICO and the nature of conspiracy are crimes that allow the government to charge you for the criminal activity of another person.  Now all of these connections though in this indictment are tenuous because as Kamau is mentioning, the so-called criminal enterprise is a legitimate social movement. So merely agreeing that black people should not be massacred and killed by the police is this conspiracy that they're alleging. So this is very clear sort of constitutional violation. Agreeing to a political movement should not be the basis of criminal conspiracy and yet that's what it's doing. An enterprise has to be a criminal enterprise. We're talking about people agreeing to do something illegal but what is this enterprise? The enterprise is people mobilizing, assembling, organizing, being in solidarity with each other. The theory of liability permits groups to be criminalized. But what's unusual here is that because the contours of this criminal enterprise and of this agreement merely being in the place is gonna be enough for the state to criminalize you, allows for 61 people to be criminalized. But the thing is that based on their theory, anyone who agrees with Cop City's movement could be criminalized. So 61 is a ton of people and you could see the court bursting at its seams to be able to accommodate these people. That doesn't have the space, doesn't have the power to do this. You could see the obscenity of this mass indictment and yet the theory that the indictment lays out potentially puts all of us on the hook which is I think really scary. So the court is coming up with all kinds of ways administratively to how to deal with this massive group of lawyers, people in court. And so they heard the court heard defendants in groups five by five, arraignments in math. They're supposed to be an individualized hearing. Each lawyer is supposed to have their moment in court but the court can't accommodate that. So the lawyer is having to argue together, agree. Okay, you argue this case. It's really complicated and the court understands that. The problem is who is gonna bear the burden of this mass indictment. The prosecution right now has it easy. They can make this big, huge allegations that potentially criminalize us all and it's gonna be the lawyers that are gonna have to figure out how to coordinate action to assert each individual defendant's rights not to be bullied by the court that administratively will not know how to deal with this. The courts are already in a state of crisis everywhere in the country, particularly after COVID but particularly in Fulton, particularly in Atlanta where people are dying on a weekly basis. The court backlog is tremendous and then you have 61 people where the judge is saying, I don't know how I'm gonna do a single hearing with regards to a speedy trial which is like a pretty administrative thing. Who's gonna bear the burden of this? I think is really worrying of this mass indictment and unfortunately the prosecution should really have the burden to show that actually this is a case and not just a persecution. But right now it's the lawyers and obviously the people accused that are bearing that burden of this very messy document. So I have to ask like that grade four question. Why is this happening? Zora, can you explain a little bit as to why now? I think there's a now question but I think there's also a question of the longer history of all the tools that have been afforded to prosecutors that legislators have given. RICO conspiracy. Conspiracy is a deeply problematic doctrine that criminal law professors across the country will be like, this is a problem. And then you add RICO. So all the tools that have been in existence that prosecutors have at their disposal and then you have a Republican attorney general who has faced no pushback from a democratic Atlanta leadership that agrees that these are not respectable lawful protesters. You have a bipartisan consensus against the activist queer non-binary left. I think also just putting in a picture like who was in court yesterday. This were like a bunch of young folks who are non-binary bright colorful clothes in a room of suits. That's who's being prosecuted. So I think why now? That's just a beginning of come out. We'll have I think a much better deeper analysis of this. Yeah, maybe we can turn to come out and we'll just take a little step back as you were saying Zora. There's the why now right now but let's take step back a little bit and what led to the situation come out. You mentioned 2020 George Floyd. So maybe you can take us back to the beginning. What exactly is Cop City? When was it introduced? Who was involved? Part of the why now to make sure that I cover a little bit of that is because of the effectiveness of the ongoing anti-police brutality, police violence movement. The fact that during a time period, particularly in 2020, when there was an upswing in that movement, when people were talking about abolishing the police, about defunding the police, finding alternatives to public safety, the city apparatus, the state, instead of doing any of that, decided to double down here in Atlanta and dust off the idea of a cop city. A large scale militarized police base that was meant to learn tactics and strategies on urban warfare, crowd control, civil disbursement, which was meant to move against community organizers and activists. On top of that, the very issue that organizers were complaining about the abuse and the use of police to solve issues that they do not solve in our communities, that this was going to be doubled and tripled under this police force in Atlanta. And the idea of cop city is that it's not only going to train the police in Atlanta, but it's going to train police across the state and across the country and have international connections, particularly the IDF of Israel. So that all of these different policing agencies were learning similar tactics and strategies and exchanging ideas on how to suppress larger local populations, particularly populations of black and brown people. When we heard about cop city shortly thereafter, the 2020 uprisings, we understood that the idea of this facility wasn't just about training the police, but it was a further mechanism of control over communities. And when you add on top of that, the placement of cop city was a place in a forest area we've dubbed as Wallani Forest in Southeast Atlanta, which was a forest that's been connected to an adjacent black working class community that was designated to remain a forest to be a place of campsites, walking trails, parks for young people. All of these plans were laid out, but they were scrapped after the 2020 uprisings when the Atlanta police foundation dusted off this idea of cop city. And that would be the place where they would have control over 300 acres of that land immediately de-forest 90 acres of that land, put multiple gun ranges at its very early conceptions, Black Hawk helicopter pads, again, extensive militarized, they say themselves, paramilitary training facilities, military grade training facilities, that this was basically the coming together of a nexus of policing tactics and strategies to again, subvert and destroy movements against police violence and to continue over-policing of our communities. You mentioned the Atlanta police foundation, but the Atlanta police foundation weren't the only ones involved. So can you tell us who some of the other players are? Not only do we have the Atlanta police foundation, but we have private corporations and foundations that have been funding the Atlanta police foundation. So the same corporations and foundations who are once screaming Black Lives Matter immediately when they saw the pushback around how policing is done in our communities, they started to fund the Atlanta police foundation. And that is not unique. These police foundations have been around for a long time, but they were relatively speaking smaller funding mechanisms for police departments. But after killing a Mike Brown and the cry for defunding or using resources in different ways, policing agencies, corporations, city, state, local, federal governments, hatched plans in which they started making these police foundations central arms of funding police agencies. And if any city, any municipality dare even thought that it could do anything around decreasing police funding, that they had an alternative mechanism already in place to make sure that funding is there. And the Atlanta police foundation is responsible for the surveillance that happens in Atlanta as the largest surveilled city in the United States. And it ranks fifth in the world of surveilled cities. Those cameras, the connections, the hookups were all done through the Atlanta police foundation. The Atlanta police foundation engages in real estate buy where it buys homes for individual police officers, particularly in Black communities where they're paid an extra fee to basically spy and give reports on activities within those communities. And so not only are they in control of cop city and the lobbying efforts that take place in order to make cop city happen the money they get from the city itself, but the private foundations, the private corporations which all put money into the Atlanta police foundation which is now the second largest police foundation financially in the country, only outside of New York. Azora, you wanted to add something to that. What we're dealing with is both short term investments in policing and then there's longer term ones like when Kamau talks about Atlanta as one of the most surveilled cities, the legacy of the war on terror is so apparent in everything that is motivating this police training facility, the intense militarization, the militarized surveillance, the Gilly program as Kamau mentioned with these exchanges between police departments and armies in a country that subjects Palestinians to illegal occupation. I think we have to see this as the war on terror come home and the way that this picks up on a legacy of the war on drugs as well with militarization and the 1033 program. I think cop city is a perfect encapsulation of all the ways in which policing is inherently violent within the United States. And the opposition I think has been really successful in drawing attention to the long history of the violence of policing and its linkages. Those transnational linkages when you talked about Israel and the Israeli forces, I couldn't help but think about the RCMP in Canada because I'm based in Canada and the increased surveillance tactics used on land back defenders here in Canada. There is increased militarization of our police departments as well across the country. And I'm sure that there is some connection there. We were talking about a little bit about the history of some of these state enterprises that target organizers and activists. The war on terror was mentioned and we should also mention COINTELPRO, right? The Counter Insurgency Program of the 1960s and 70s, the Federal Bureau of Investigation was the lead arm but on behalf of the federal government to basically stop movement organizing at that time which meant it was targeting organizations as distinct as the Black Panther Party, Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Dr. King's Organization, the NAACP, the Weatherman Organization, SUNY Democratic Society Organization, AIM, the American Indian Movement. When movements rise up to talk about political repression, police repression, ways in which resources are distributed, the state counters with its own tactics which are usually around criminalizing dissent and over-arresting and over-policing communities where dissent comes from. We're in that period as we speak and these recall charges and domestic tourism charges are a clear indication of where the state is willing and able to go in order to suppress movements. And again, this comes from both Democrats and Republicans as it has historically come from both sides of the aisle when their larger interest is keeping in power capitalist resources, development arms, military structures and fighting back against people who are saying that there's gotta be other ways in which we structure society. So I think it's just very important to keep in mind. This case has intense implications not just in the state of Georgia but across the country nationally, internationally through your talking about this attempt to muzzle dissent, what kind of legal precedent does this set and what implications does it have for the future for movements? I can start with you, Zora. I think what's been really distressing around these cases is these are incredibly difficult, intricate cases to fight back against. And it requires a really robust criminal defense bar, public defense bar in a context in which public defense throughout the country is in crisis and it has been in crisis since the 1960s but particularly after COVID, we're having people leaving en masse because the work is so difficult at a time when the state is using the criminal law to prosecute people, to prosecute dissent, to prosecute broad diverse coalitions against police brutality where the state is essentially proving its own case, proving the case of the protesters. The protesters are pushing back at this criminalization. The state's response is aggressive criminalization proving the very legitimacy of those grievances. This is not the first kind of these cases. After the 2020 uprising, there was prosecutions in Arizona. Folks were successful in pushing back. Those lessons are now being learned and applied here in Georgia. So I think the courts have always been a battleground criminalization. It's always been a tactic for repression. I think that these charges are going to require lawyers not only be ready to take on these cases but we're gonna need lawyers that are in tune to the movement demands and we're going to need lawyers to step up. And that's difficult in a context in which the most likely people to take this on are public defenders and they're dealing with difficult cases. So this is a crisis of criminalization on top of a longer crisis of criminalization. And we have to address both because these are political protesters, yes, and prosecutions, but then there's a longer context of mass criminalization that's happening and those are interacting and they're gonna use the terrible conditions of jails against these people. And I think we need to be attuned to both levels of repression. Kamau, do you have anything to add to this? Yeah, I think the only thing I'll add is what's going to be needed also is a continually strong movement. That's not just here in Atlanta but across the country that reacts to this, that sees this, that calls this out, that's willing to participate in their own actions to show that not only these defendants but the larger movement against Stop Cop City is something that people take on as part of their own movement. What happens here is going to be transported out to other places depending on what works here. Don't think that other law enforcement agencies and groups aren't having meetings about what's gonna happen in Atlanta with these cases. What is it that they can bring to their own jurisdiction to make movements stop in their tracks as they threaten them with criminal charges which in effect put people's lives on hold and threaten people with long jail terms for things that they came for one day to support, right? So the scare tactics are obvious and so it's gonna take larger movements. It's gonna take the infrastructure building. I think that it is currently happening here in Atlanta. Everything from a bail fund that's been around for a long time to the Southern Center for Human Rights which is helping to support matching defendants with lawyers, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. I just want to mention a couple of those highly resourced structured organizations which have actually thrown down during this time period the Center for Constitutional Rights. We're gonna have to make sure that that movement infrastructure is well built, taken care of and ready to support organizers and activists who are taking the lead on the ground to fight back against things like Hop City to brought out communities. There's a lot of weight to this conversation and yet you're continuing in your fight about this. Come out, you know, you're talking about looking at this in a hopeful way and you're using what's happening right now as a startup point for a week of action. How are you dealing with your own spirits with those around you? How are others helping to keep people charged up? How is this resistance continuing? From my point of view, as someone who's old, I've been organizing for about 30 years, I tried to reassure not only myself but others with just the idea we have each other, we are in community, we are building community. If all the struggles or issues I've ever been involved in, this Hop City struggle has been the richest organizing campaign fight that I've ever been involved in and that's because of the diversity of tactics and strategies, the diversity of organizations and individuals involved. Everything from voting rights organizations to anarchist groups, there's just been a plethora of different kind of people who innately and immediately saw what Hop City was about. Environmentalist community folks who saw what Hop City was about and even though our organizations or as individuals we don't normally always work together or even see eye to eye on politics and strategies. There was a base level of understanding around not only what this was about, but the types of ways in which individual groups and individual actors would participate in it and we would not, on our other ends, even if we did not engage in certain actions or tactics or strategies, would not be calling each other out but we would be supportive and working with each other. Remember, this is a movement that has not only seen these political arrests but we've actually had an organizer killed by state authorities in the forest as a forest defender. And so I think that kind of tremendous resolve has been here. It shows the strength of movements and organizations and to be quite honest, the fact that the state has used the tactics that it has to destroy this movement, it also shows the effectiveness of not only what this movement brings around Hop City, but potentially what this movement can mean for other actions here in Atlanta and for other ways to organize movements across the country. So I think that part is what keeps me going. I think it's what keeps other organizers going and to know that we're all interacting and interrelating and trying to bring together these struggles. Thank you. Azora, do you want to add to that? I agree with everything that Kamau said and what's amazing is the genius in this movement. I mean, the ways that in an anecdote, the emergence after the RICO indictments that organizers put forward, their own RICO, right? The people's RICO, the humor, the satire, also the deep linkage that for us to breathe in this world, literally breathe in Atlanta, requires the forest to be preserved and the police not to exist, right? The way that the linkage of what a politics of life are I think is so hopeful. The organizers in Hop City have really, I think provided a template for what intersectional coalition, coalitional movements look like. Also, the state has been so greedy. The state has put forward a very flimsy document. You can see that it's trying to bite off more than it can chew. And these are winnable cases. I have a deep feeling that these cases will be defeated because the creativity, the resilience, and the genius is really on this side. There's a ton of hard work, dedication, and genius on the side. So that really keeps me hopeful and it has an irresistible attraction that will spread. Already people are looking to Atlanta as a model for organizing. I have learned so much and I know that a lot of people will continue to learn a tremendous amount from organizers who are not old but well-experienced like Kamau. That's good, I like that better. Thank you so much, both of you. I appreciate very much what you're doing. I'm really, really just in awe. So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate you having us covering the story. Thank you for listening. This was a challenging story to dig into. The tactics of the prosecutors in Georgia felt more overwhelming the more I read and I really appreciated hearing such energy and positivity from both Kamau and Zora. Not to mention their spot-on analysis. I'd love to hear from you. If you feel like dropping me a note, you can find me on Instagram at Don't Call Me Resilient podcast or email me at dcmratheconversation.com. And by the way, we got some good news this week. We've been nominated for a Canadian Podcast Award in the category of Outstanding News and Current Affairs. It would be great if you have a few minutes and can sign up to vote for us because every little win counts. Don't Call Me Resilient is a production of The Conversation Canada. It was made possible by a grant for journalism innovation from the Social Science and Humanities Research Council of Canada. The series is produced and hosted by me, Vinitha Sribasthava. Our associate producer is Athika Khaki with additional research on this episode by Bokeh Seisi. Remitula Sheikh does our sound design and mixing. Kikuchi Memme is our student producer. Our fabulous consulting producer is Jennifer Morose and Scott White is the CEO of The Conversation Canada. And if you're wondering who wrote and performed the music we use on the podcast, that's Zaki Ibrahim. The track is called Something in the Water.


Moldova says Russian attack may take place in 2023. Moldova's chief intelligence officer has said that Russia's attack on the country is imminent and may take place in 2023. In an interview with TVR Moldova channel, director of intelligence and security service SIS, Aleksandr Musiatsev, warns that the threat of Russia's attack on Moldova was real. The question is not whether Russia will launch a new attack on the territory of Moldova, but when this will happen. This can happen either at the beginning of the year, in January, February or later in March-April, Musiatsev explained. The official said that the attack on Moldova would depend on the course of Russia's ongoing war in Ukraine. First of all, Musiatsev warned that Russia could go as far as creating a corridor to Moldova's pro-Russian transnistria breakaway region, where Kremlin has a 1,200-member military contingent. This means they want to come to Moldova's territory and unite. This is a real and high risk, Musiatsev explained. The SIS confirmed Musiatsev's remarks, clarifying that Russia's goal of forming a land corridor to the transnistria region remains relevant today, and the new attack by the Russian Federation in the direction may indeed take place next year. Moldova had earlier announced that it would turn to the neighboring Romania for help if the war in Ukraine spills over into its territory. Kremlin's interest in setting up a land corridor transnistria was expressed back in April by senior Russian military commander, who said that control over the south of Ukraine would give his country access to Moldova's transnistria region.