Mr Fellowes, can you tell me what a clearance diver does? The many of their bombs weren't exploding when they hit our ships. Making the bombs safe now fell into the hands of the diving team. You want to tell my wife, I'm in the South Atlantic, I'm on a warship that's under attack by enemy aircraft.  Any second now I'm likely to kill myself in 450 seconds. Mick, how are you brother? I'm very, very well, just suffering with the aches and pains of old age, you know, in my 80s now, so my misspent youth is catching up with me. Shit mate, I'm in my 50s and my misspent youth caught up with me about 20 years ago, so you're looking incredibly well. Well, no, I'm feeling well at the moment. Good, good, good, good. And so friends at home, I'm utterly honoured to host Mick on the podcast today. Warren Officer, first class with the Royal Navy, but so much more than that probably means to a lot of people. If I can just put it in my layman's terms, we had the Falklands conflict, the Falklands war. The gentleman that I'm chatting to today, and this has been said by Brigadier Julian Thompson, who was the commander of the land forces down there in the Falklands, that without this gentleman that I'm chatting to now, the war could have had a very different outcome. Mick is not only a diver, but what we call clearance diver, so clearing mines, bombs, anything that goes bang that is going to take a take a ship down. You were down there and you were literally saving the ships from sinking by defusing the live bombs that had landed on the ship, but hadn't yet gone off. We're also going to talk about the Herald of Free Enterprise, which anybody in my generation, little bit above, little bit below, will remember was the awful, awful tragedy that took place when this passenger ferry rolled over on its way, I believe it's to Zebrugge, and it was an international tragedy. I know, Mick, that you were heavily involved in recovering the bodies from that vessel. I guess we start at the beginning, sir. What made you want to join the Royal Navy? I joined the Royal Navy in 1955 at the age of 15, and that was at St Vincent's training school, Siemens training school in Gosport, very much against my father's wishes. During the war, he'd been working on minesweepers, that a pretty rough time, and he really wanted me to have some other training, but I went against his wishes, and after six months at St Vincent's started thinking, I wish I'd really taken your advice and got another job, I'm not too happy about being in the Royal Navy. Having said that, I did my year at St Vincent, and then joined a frigate, HMS Lott-Killesport, which was due to go to the Persian Gulf via the Suez Canal, but the Suez conflict, stroke war, started at that very time, and I was asked, or not asked, really told by my captain, that on board the ship, they were short of divers, in the those days we had standard divers, large helmets, all this little thing, they needed to increase a compliment, and I had just volunteered to go on a diving course. That's all very good, but I can only just swim. So at the age of 16, I ended up on a diving course at HMS Defiance in Wilcove, and then joined the ship, and we sailed around the Cape to the Gulf. Now, I enjoyed being a diver, apart from the fact that my main task in the Gulf was assisting the standard divers to investigate cargoes that have been ditched overboard by Arab Delks. Now, there was a death penalty in the Gulf at that time, in Bahrain, for any ships that were importing arms, ammunition, gold, or slaves, and slavery was a big thing in 1956 in the Gulf. We would creep up at night on the ships, staff and ship, and try to catch them out, but if they saw us coming, they would throw all of the arms, ammunition, and unfortunately the slaves over the side as well, still attached to their shackles. My job as a 16-year-old was to dive down in an oxygen-diving set with a large camera about the size of a today's dustbin and photograph the victims on a seabed. Bloody awful job for a young lad. I left some Vincent after, left being locked in a spore after 18 months, joined another frigate in the Far East for tour of the Far East, and I was there during the Malaysian confrontation, so did a fair bit of time diving offshore, but again spent most of my time on a train travelling backwards and forwards between Singapore and Penang as an armed guard. I was an armed guard with a 303 rifle, but it didn't trust me because I was only 16, 17 at that time with ammunition. I left there and went to the dark of training squadron, not to join the officer corps, but as a diver and a seamen, where I met a lieutenant commander Guy Worsley, who later told out to be the superintendent of diving, and he convinced me, he was a keen diver himself, we did a lot of diving together, mainly picking up lobsters, but he convinced me I really ought to leave the sort of basic seamen branch where I was a trained man with a little bit of skill in gunry, in torpedo and anti-submarine, in radar, but no sort of great knowledge about engine whatsoever, and I ought to change branch to become a clearance diver. He explained the clearance driver's role for me and I thought that's just for me. Right, he said, but the only snag is you have to go to sea for at least another 18 months to get a bare minimum three years experience in before changing branch. I changed branch to clearance diver, which was an eight-month course at that time with an 85% value rate in 1960, and then joined the clearance diving branch. The role of the clearance diving branch at that particular time in the early 60s was clearing up all of the unexploded bombs and mines that had been left from the Second World War, which of course was only 50 years prior to that, and there were hundreds of them around the coast, mainly at the east coast of the UK and Scotland. Mick, you blow me away already, and I think you've blown our audience away, so just before we go any further, I just want to say a special thank you to Mick Ivers. Mick, hello, if I'm pretty sure you're going to watch this. It was Mick that put this in contact. Mick was HMS Antrim in the Falklands. Folks, I'll put a link below for the podcast I did with Mick.  This is just allowed the podcast to have a chat, like I say. It's just blown me away already, Mick.  How do you deal with that mentally, because they didn't have any mental health services and any understanding back then? Well, I was perhaps just fortunate that it was the taste. I was too young to have the throttle run.  That would have helped, and sometimes the older drivers, stand drivers, would give you a little sip of their rum, which helped a little bit, but that was it. I just learned after a while to get over it, and over the following 35 years in the Royal Navy, I actually trained myself so that I could go down and recover a corpse, a body on a sea bed, and I could come back to the surface and report that I'd been covered either a man or a woman or a child. I could give it a size, but I could tightly wipe out their facial features. I never ever recorded the facial features, which was very, very handy, as we're going to talk about the Herald later, when we were covering the victims of the Herald and the parents and loved ones of the victims would be on the shore, showing me photographs and saying, have you seen my son, daughter, whatever, and I could quite honestly say no, I haven't. All that I know is today we've recovered X number of children, X number of men, quite a few lorry drivers, because lorry drivers have been on the water for seven weeks, put an extra lot of weight on with the water they took in. Some of them were heavy already. So, so, so I trained that after a while. A few friends and people have asked me, how do you cope with recovering corpses, and how do you cope after dealing with a terrorist bomb or a mine? And, well, if possible, I go and have a couple of pints down the road, and that really is quite sufficient. Gosh, I just feel like we need to thank you on behalf of humanity for everything that you've, I mean, I bet those victims' families that, well, obviously, they're devastated beyond what we can ever understand unless you've been in that, but at least you've helped them to get closure, Mick, is that the right word? Yes, it is, yes, yes, yes. Gosh, yeah. And I'm sure we could chat for hours and hours, mate, but coming on to the Falklands, gosh, what was your first knowledge of that conflict? Right. At that time in 1982, even before that, 1981, I was second in command of the Fleet Clearance Diving Team. Now, the Fleet Clearance Diving Team mainly had, was the Navy's commitment to NATO, and we attended all the various NATO mines we've been mine clearance exercises around the world. And in early 1982, we were in Gibraltar on exercise spring train. And I was ordered with my boss to return back to the UK early, and to go to Fort Suffolk, which is just north of Portsmouth, and meet or report to Commodore Mike Clapp, who was a Commodore amphibious warfare. We went to see the Commodore, and he said, I suppose, gentlemen, you've heard that we are almost likely to be going to war now with Argentina over their illegal occupation of Great Britain and the Falkland Islands. And in fact, none of us had heard about that. He then said, I'm expecting when I take it, if I take a task force down there, to come across mines and other unexploded objects that the Argentinians were laid to prevent our troops landing. I've asked for mine sweeper assistance to clear the minefields, but I've been told that mine sweepers aren't available, and that the new hunt class mine hunters are too small to go all the way down to the Falkland Islands. Why don't I try taking a clearance diving team? He then said he admitted he'd never heard of clearance divers before. So then he said, Mr. Fellows, can you tell me what a clearance diver does, and how you could possibly assist me? After about half an hour of talking to him, he said, how soon can you be ready to mobilise? And I said within 24 hours. On the 15th of April, with my team of 16 guys, I flew or we flew to Ascension Islands via Diego Garcia. We went there ahead of all of the troops and ships to set up the facilities on Ascension Islands or the troops to exercise firing their weapons when they arrived so that they had reasonable ranges, and we were in a position also to deal with any misfires. We also needed to be there early as another of the ships were coming direct from the operations in the Mediterranean exercise, and others were coming from the UK without having had the time to repair any damages or duty routine maintenance on the hull. So we were there, part of our capability is if need be we can change the ships for pellers, we can do underwater, patron, big pairs if necessary, and when the fleet arrived it was very, very necessary. We set up operations on Ascension Islands, and all the ships arrived at various times over the next two or three weeks. We did repairs to the hull, and we also searched the ship's bottoms most evenings, or when some sailor or merchant seaman would spot an enemy frogman in the water placing limbic mines on their ship. It was normally a shark or a dolphin swimming around, but we had to search the ships most nights, day and night, or for limbic mines. Part of our task is to remove limbic mines from ships. We transferred from Ascension Islands on to the RFA of Orthletically Sir Tristram, for the passage down to the Forthlands once our government had decided that yes, there was going to be a conflict, stroke war. On the way south on Tristram we had the Royal Marines, Mountain Arctic Warfare, Cardinal on board, and various other troops, and we took the opportunity on the way down to get to know their various weapons and to do a bit of practice with them. As basically as a seaman in the Navy, you don't really touch weapons at all, if they do give you a rifle they never give you any ammunition. The sailor in those days were bloody dangerous. We arrived down in the Forthlands and I was told that D-Day was to be the 21st, only told the night before, and that we would be required from 2.30 in the morning on D-Day to go into the beaches if necessary to clear any beach obstacles and explosive devices. That wasn't necessary, and the Commodore later on said in his book that in fact he sent the landing craft in full of soldiers and Royal Marines really to land on the beach and to test whether there are any weapons there or not. At about 11 o'clock on D-Day, the morning of D-Day, the 21st of May, I was handed a pink signal saying that Antelope, this HMS Antelope destroyer had been hit by an unexploded weapon and needed immediate assistance. It didn't say what the weapon was, just an unexploded weapon. I got all my two chiefs and my Lieutenant Commander in charge and asked in a sort of plightish way for any volunteers to go and deal with this weapon. There weren't any forthcoming really and it was very fairly obvious that it was above my chief's pay rates and I was possibly the most experienced. In a way I was quite pleased, I wanted to do something. I got all the two of my sailors, divers, an Eden diver, Jan Saw, an enabled diver, or diver, Nigel Pollan, and we waited for the helicopter to come to Tristram to take us to Andrew. Shopper landed, we got on board, took a couple of tools, we were missing a bomb bag. A bomb bag has a few explosive charges on it and bits and pieces which we couldn't really use on a ship but that's all we had. We took off on the chopper and on the way out of St. Carlos' water and we were dodging enemy aircraft coming in that were attacking the ship at the time. The pilot asked me on the intercom, do you know where Antrim is, Mr. Farris?  We did just that. We flew quite low because the enemy aircraft were coming in from all directions because we saw the Canberra in a distance and I can see the Antrim actually doing figure of eight great speed around the Antrim. All of her guns firing, protecting Canberra, sorry, protecting Canberra. My pilot said, right Mr. Fellows, get yourself into the strop and we'll lower you down below the chopper so that you can land on the flight deck as soon as we get you down there. I got into the strop, they lowered me about two feet below the helicopter and we started diving in towards the Antrim. The Antrim was told we were coming and actually changed course from zigzagging on to a fairly straight course to make landing for me easier. As we got fairly close I heard this horrendous noise looked up and saw two enemy Argentinian aircraft coming in with their guns, cannons blazing in front. I could hear the fire from the cannons whistling so close I lifted my knees below my chin because I thought it was going to hit me. My chopper pilot obviously saw the same and thought, bugger this, I'm getting out of it. So he shot the aircraft off to his left and at the same time lowered inadvertently, lowered height, perhaps forgetting I was underneath.  They dragged me for the ocean for what felt like about two and a half hours but in fact it was probably only about one and a half minutes. I lost my shoes, they both disappeared. I had the bomb bag over one shoulder and I ditched others well thinking I was going to drown but not with that weight. The pilot then started to raise height again pulled me up out of the window, out of the water and winched me back into the helicopter. I was then given a pair of earphones and he said, bother that Mr Fellows we can't do that again I'm going back to the cars. It took me about five minutes to say to him no I don't think you really can do this sir. We've got a ship down there, it's got an unexploded weapon on board. If I don't get on board to make that weapon safe I wouldn't like to be responsible for the repercussions. He then said okay Mr Fellows we'll give it one more go. We did just that but I thought right you're not going to catch me in that stop again. I'm going to stand in the strop and hold on to the wire. The Winchman very kindly took his gloves off and gave me his gloves. So we came in very low again, me standing in the strop holding on to the wire. I could see the entrance again going fairly straight on a fairly straight course but the whole of her after deck now was covered in white foam and looked like snow, covering a healthier helicopter which had been shot up and the fuel which sort of put a damper on the fuel which had flown all over the helicopter, flown down the flight deck. There were patches of red blood as well all over the place where people have been wounded. So as we came in very low I took my foot out of the strop, let go and dropped on the flight deck. I dropped onto the flight deck and found the only hatch that was open and landed astride it.  I managed to stand up after that and a lieutenant commander Grace Gurgle said, right Mr Fellows I'll show you the bomb, the first mention of bomb. I said there were weights of my two assistants that coming in on the next transfer, they arrived. He took me down below decks and asked to what was the heads, the toilet compartments, the other toilet compartment. There was wreckage all over the place but between the wreckage I could make out the outline of a bomb. Now the bomb had been fired by an Argentinian aircraft towards the stern of the ship. It had gone in through the Seacat blast doors on the back end, bounced down of the missile compartment and the missile compartment was full of missiles and occupied the whole length of the ship. It had then bounced up off a missile through a pyrotechnic magazine, hit the underside of the flight deck, ricocheted down into the toilet and stopped there. I started pulling wreckage away with my hands from the bombs so I'd get a closer look at it and then I could smell smoke. The smoke then turned into flame and they realized pyrotechnic magazine next to us was on fire or the pyrotechnics on fire. I got my two guys to run forward and look for some firefighting equipment. They came back with extinguishers and started putting out the fire on the blazing pyrotechnics and whilst I cleared more of the wreckage away from around the bomb. All the time we were doing this the ship was doing 20 plus knots through the water in figure eights throwing us all over the place and the captain very kindly would shout on the internet there's another attack coming in now and we knew that from the amount of fire going up from the entrance and then eventually from the amount of fire coming down from the attack and aircraft and initially we left our position by the bomb and ran forward for shelter, bloody stupid. We ran forward into a mess deck and I saw a table there and I went to dive under the table only to find out that my leading diver Jan Swall was already under there.  We had a bit of a laugh then decided no let's get on with the bomb and forget all the future. I worked around the bomb clearing wreckage away while my guys were putting out the fire and then in between times assisting me with coal chisels and hammers and hacksaws that we got out of our first damage control locker, clearing the wreckage from the bomb so I could get towards the tail ends to see the state of the fuse. I realized after a while that the tail end of the bomb had snapped off on its passageway through the ship this is normal the tails are not held on very strong but beneath the tail there's the fuse is attached to the tail end of the bomb and the fuse has veins on it propellers small propellers which actually when the bomb is released from the ship turn and they release an arming device it's like a small fork inside the bomb use itself but I would normally look to see if the veins on the fuse were still there and what state the arming problem was in but the back end of the bomb with the missing tail was so badly damaged I couldn't see that at all. We worked on the bomb clearing the wreckage away and trying to get to trying to identify the fuse for about four or five hours when a petty officer telegraphist came into the heads and said to me Mr fellows you're required in the wireless room urgently and he said before you can say anything they told me it's urgently and I'm not to return without you fair enough I walked with him to the wireless room and I could understand that obviously simply to all the authorities needed to know what type of bomb had hit the ship and in fact what state it was in this this is normal as such I'd never come across secure speech before in my life I put the headphones on got all the microphone and the voice in the headphones said hello Mick this is Hamish Lowne this is a secure speech nobody but you and I can hear what you're saying so please speak openly and free all right he said what have you got Mick and I said I've got a British 1000 pounds bomb with a damaged tail fuse he said are you sure it's British I said well it's painted olive green it's got a red band around the front red denoted nose days high explosive where's the other does now and it says there's a little tally on the side it says made in Bilston overhand so yes I'm sure sir right Vicki said sorry what how can we help I said well I've got a bit of a plan in my mind at the moment I've not I'm not too sure it's what I'm going to do but my intention is to actually move this bomb aft about half a meter or so and we're one deck below the flight deck so then I'm going to part all the wires on the deck head the ceiling for the city's listening above me I don't want to cut any wires and stop the ship guns firing or the steering working etc I'm going to part all the wires then I'm going to cut the hole in the flight deck said really I said yes and I'm going to rig a shear leg shear legs or get a crane and I'm going to gently lift the bomb to the upper deck and gently lower it over the side I said really I said yes I said but what I want to know is can I afford to do that is this bomb likely or that fuse to be have an anti-disturbance device or a delay and he said right patched in on this conversation although I said there's only the two of us can hear it it's Tony Lombard at the defense explosive arms disposable disposal technical information center the voicing command said hello mech this is Tony I've heard all that I've got the army the navy and air force all the experts in the military around me at the moment computers buzzing will give you an answer soon he said it's unusual to find a British bombers I said yes very unusual etc and we had a bit of small talk although I was keen on getting back to the bomb he then said mech unfortunately we can't help you he said it could have a delay if it's got a delay it's possibly a 28 minute delay and as the bomb hits now over an hour ago it possibly it should have gone off by now but it could also have an anti-disturbance device in it he said so we can't help you at all he said move the thing as gently as possible when I said I tend to he says if you've got a spirit level on top don't let the bubble move at all so I said thanks very much indeed sir yeah but mech I can do your favor I said really Tony he said yes he was a neighbor of mine in Yachton West Sussex he said I'll tell if I'm in your wife and tell her what you're doing and I said no won't repeat what I said but I basically said are you taking the piss you want to tell my wife I'm in the South Atlantic I'm on a warship that's under attack by enemy aircraft we've got a bomber I'm sitting astride over they don't know what the bloody hell I'm doing for any second now I'm blighted to kill myself and 450 seconds I put the phone down what I didn't know and I heard later on that as well as he and I and Hamish Loudon on the on the intercom the prime minister was listening to this on a tannery system in number 10 she then said to the commander in chief who was the doctor commander to the the uh first sea lord Admiral Fieldhouse who is this man where did we find him and if he's still out alive after the war which I doubt I'd like to meet him I met her later on I went back to my bar met you yeah I I know that you were um friends with Margaret Thatcher and and it here in your story it's not that's not surprising to to understand also we should point out that you have an MBE DSC is that Distinguished Service Cross the only non-commissioned that man in the British Navy to have that and a BEM G BEM for gallantry which is the four of the Queen's Gallantry Medal I'm I'm listening to this mate and I attempted to say do you understand like superheroes that's just like in the movies oh it's just hanging off helicopters this does literally the stuff I watch with my seven-year-old when we're watching a spider-man um spider-man film um incredible and and just this in itself is like why have we never seen a documentary or or or even a a dramatic film made about about you know not just your actions obviously every everybody that would that was down south and and the the people supporting them but it's um do you ever feel this has been played played down I mean I I think I looked on Wikipedia I think it just said it took 10 hours to you know make the bomb safe there's nothing about what what what you're telling us the unfortunate thing and this is for the whole of the clear divers that were down there and we had three teams down there team one which was my team basically doing bottom line disposal I'm looking after the ship ship repair team number two which was on these Dennis these sea spread and they were doing repairs on ships afloat and team three which are going to bottom line disposal now all of the operations which I'm going to tell you about shortly that I carried out were never ever reported to any higher authority my reports were lost had the prime minister not been listening to the conversation with Tony Lombard and fleet no one would have really known about my operations on the entry albeit that operation was the first time an unexploded bomb had been removed from a surface warship in the history of all Navy never been done before there was no president no equipment no procedures it's just unfortunately the clearance diver element reporting uh procedure was nonexistent during the job I came from a pretty loaded background born during the Second World War not too good in education but mainly that was my my fault I wanted to get out and wait for it but when I changed prior to clearance diver I actually found there was something I could do I could help save people's lives and I was pretty good at it yes and I just say a little bit Mick if I can say about Navy divers in general because I had the pleasure of being on HMS Invincible in the Royal Marines Detachment for a year our guys were very much made welcome to be any part of the ship that we have one guy he he actually like studied to become the boson or a buffer or you forgive me it was a I forget the terminology but you know he had this thick affairs folder of all this the stuff he learned shipwise Marines we were allowed to grow beards for example this might surprise people at home we had to ask permission from the captain but you could be a Royal Marine with a bit there was even stuff said and I don't want to go too much at a tangent but I think this is fascinating that you can actually apply to have an earring and a and a a tarred let's just call it a ponytail or or jack jack tar or what it will um but my my point is a couple of our guys did the diving course and it's incredibly tough folks you're talking this is like commando you know on a on a on a par it's not just a ah just chuck a wetsuit on and get no the the when I did it they were down there is it horsey or some some place and yeah and and you've really got to prove your worth when the ships up there in Norway it's Antarctic conditions the water levels the temperatures probably probably minus one because of the salt it can go go below the zero and you got to get your kid on you got to get over the side if the ships if there's any you know the ships run aground or or whatever it might be or the propellers got fouled um very very brave profession mick and something we don't you know people talk about parrots and marines and sas and da da da da this this i'm i'm so honored now that we can give this the uh you know the the the attention this profession the attention it it deserves and can you just repeat what you said this is the first time ever a bomb has been made safe on a ship in active service that is is still moving is that right yes it was the first time of an unexploded bomb had been removed from the surface warship at sea now prior to that in 1942 a submarine hms catch a lot on the surface was was bombed by german aircraft and two bombs uh one was wedged in the con in by the con in town one in the uh but just underneath the upper deck case and two uh seaman robberts and can't remember the other chap's name uh a sub lieutenant and a pedi officer actually removed the bombs and threw them over the side having been told that if the submarine come under attack again it would dive straight away leave them to the mercy of the sea they're both retreat received bit victoria crosses for that and we see robberts actually join the clearance dive and branch off of the boat but this was the first time in naval history that the surface warship had been hit by an uninsulated bomb we weren't prepared for it we weren't trained for it there was no equipment for which mit what what we've got to remember is you're down there with the task force we've we've heard of the infamous bomb alley and all of you all of you you guys the the the the sailors the the infantry marines parachute regiment are all all on board these ships at various stages what how does that how does that how did that affect your mental state knowing that at any moment any ship you were on could be hit by a you know struck by an argentine a missile from an argentine jack uh i was aware of that situation of course but by the time at the forklands in 1982 i'd already had 23 years of my disposed of experience in some pretty awful situations including orvan armor of course uh so so i wouldn't say it didn't worry me but it's just something i've learned to live with and and just got on with life i knew what i had to do and uh i just kept my fingers crossed and hope that uh bombs weren't going to hit us and uh that we would survive that's what you could do and how did the rest of the war progress for you right well uh my my my procedure for lifting the bomb out of uh answering worked quite well where we in fact cut a hole in in the flight deck the buffer on board rigs and sheer legs will be sheer legs not be much like an indian type tb you know uh we gently lowered the bomb over the side as i did so i said to the captain would you please when i asked you to go full ahead and hard to start with he said why hard to start with mr fellows i said well i'm gonna let go to take all the last thing i want is to be wrapped around your propeller so what we did just said he invited us into the walldroom then for a meal we hadn't eaten for about 10 hours and he said i would give you a drink as well mr fellows but i've got another little pink signal here for you he pushed the signal into my hand and i read the signal and he said mr fellows hms argonaut has just been hit by two bombs which were unexploded believed to be french bombs proceed to argonaut immediately now immediate thought then was bloody hell i've got two chief divers on the sutristum and i left him a commander there must be unexploded bombs all over the place to keep them busy uh i went across to argonaut and in fact uh my two chiefs were there and they told me that the uh two two bombs on board one had hit going through the starboard side of the ship got into the fired magazine on the port side killed two sailors inside and flooded that magazine and of course we're still there and they'd started patching the hole on the side so we could pump the magazine out the other bomb had gone into the after machinery space and fortunately two warnt officer war engineers bomb disposal had appeared out of the blue with lots of equipment and said can we help and my chief quite fanfare said yes please and they were dealing with the bomb in the after machinery space at the time uh i could see things were going well and i wouldn't be able to do anything with a bomb in the magazine for a couple of days at least and we've got a patch on it and pump the water out when i suggested to captain layman captain of the argonaut that he'd take the majority of his crew off that weren't required and and as a ship was out of action totally so in the event of an accident we weren't going to kill too many or have too many casualties like back in my mind all the time was that i was very very lucky that i got away with out in the casualties on on andrew that could have been four hundred four forty four hundred and fifty uh dead's crew and a lot of Marines are on board as well anyway uh i went back to citristrum because i've been ordered to leave citristrum with my team and join frillis uh we loaded all our equipment on to a landing craft and on the way to frillis i'll go back to argonaut first of all see how my chief did not i went back over there and then thought okay i'll have to work out a mythology now for getting rid of the bomb that's in the magazine it hasn't exploded it's underwater what i'm going to do is i'm going to use the same procedure as i did on the andrew i'm going to gently lift it out lower it over the side but to do that i had to look for an escape route to lift it up through so i i i i looked throughout the ship and i decided i used the light jacks equipment long rope system from winches back off on the on the quarter deck i run the the boat fought for it and then cut various holes through bulkheads deckheads etc so that i could then lead it down to the hatch above the magazine right and i then went and sat on the hatch in the magazine and i was looking up for eyeballs and bits and pieces above me that i could attach tackles to to lift the bomb now so i was looking up there was an enormous explosion and the ship shook and my immediate thought was you're dead the bombs exploded then i realized i wasn't dead and the bomb hadn't exploded so i raced together with lots of other people to the upper deck only to look out to see that the antelope the the antelope yes only about 200 yards from us had in fact exploded and was on fire my chief then said to me the engineers that were working on our archer machinery space removed the fuse from that bomb and had gone across to antelope there was no need to tell you you were busy i said but i i could understand that i said right let's get into our landing craft just a couple of my guys get over to antelope which was burning fiercely this time it was burning and there were there were sheets of metal actually floating through the air on fire i went alongside antelope to see if we could help crew members off and all that got fairly close when a couple of these burning sheets of metal landed on board my landing craft and they fought bloody hell i've got about 600 pound of high explosive on the landing craft as well which i use at all i just can't afford to hang around with a fire falling all around me in the heat so we had to leave them to their devices i learned later of course that the two world engineers had gone across there and used what we call a rocket wrench which is a good piece of fuse extraction equipment really for use on land not really designed for use on a warship but they'd had fear attempts at diffusing one of the bombs and the third attempt that bomb was exploded and killed Jim Prescott and injured John Phillips he lost his neck down i went back to argonaut and said to my two trees right i'm going to do is ride out a procedure now for removing the bomb based on the procedure that i used on the antler and actually drew some little designs and all and gave them to him and then said right i'm going to feel this and i'm going to then bring the boss of the team over who will join you on board and do the liaison supervising removal of your bomb i knew it was going to take some time because we still haven't successfully patched the whole yet went to feel us a couple of days later i was summoned to the offices of Captain Commodore Michael Klatt who said Mr Fellows you've been around a long time what do you know about beach clearance and i said what do you want to know about beach clearance i know just about everything i i there is to know in in my younger days i'd actually gone to to Paul to Hanworthy and with the ball marines the sbs i'd done a landing craft obstacle clearance course and i was part of a lock you landing craft of clearance unit at the time before it was disbanded and that role was given over to the sbs he said so so you're quite confident in that role i said yes i am satisfied what we'd like to do you to do is take a party of men behind enemy lines into bluff curve and find an alternative landing area for the ball marines and the two of three power to go into when we get closer to stand not a problem i was told my team would convince would consist of a sergeant sbs and two sbs divers for uh war engineer uh my detection guys and myself and three of my my divers uh we went into bluff cove at night in a special forces chopper i was quite surprised how quiet it was running and then this chap it was quite a fight in drive in because there have been in lots of helicopters before but he skimmed the surface of the sea as we went to shore probably only about two meters above the water level of the valley there we hit the land and we were going up and down over hills and mountain trees at about the same height i never realized at that time he had one of the four pair of night vision glasses but it was the first time he'd ever use them and the navigator next to him without night vision glasses was advising him now the game you know up a bit down a bit or whatever we traveled for about half an hour and i was sat in in in the boat standing there were twelve of us in the back in the chocolate fairly close to the cockpit and i heard all these alarms started going off and red lights flashing and the pilot just leaned over his shoulder and shouted we're going down all along and we hit the deck at hell of a rate of knots fortunately we were only about six foot up off the floor so it wasn't that big a drop but we hit hit it with quite a bounce uh we flew over the doors and prepared to jump out they said stop where you are we can stop where we are we were on the ground for about 10 or 15 minutes right here in the uh co-pilot we're fiddling around with bits and pieces he said might we've overcome the problem we can go again we landed in buff clothes bluffed cove we're met by a local farmer who'd been told that we were coming in who took us to the the the banks of buff cove that were just by the the entrance of that to the bluff itself and showed us the way around and said that the argentinian military were in force on the other side of buff cove quite a lot and we really shouldn't make too much noise or use radios that was no problem because we had no radios the sbs had their sarvo sets but we had no radios so i said okay well what we'll do and i got all one guys together is we'll use we had right handled torches but with a red glass on them we'll use diving signals lifeline signals four poles means pull me up five bells means finish work etc etc the 36 different signals that you normally give on your lifeline we'll use those as flashes on the red torch so we can talk to each other team and it worked i got one of my divers to swim across the whip of bluff cove towing a line with him once he got to the other side a second diver took off to the shore and he they both secured the line and he would come towards the second dive so they crossed in the middle looking for bombs my subscriptions they would then move the line up a meter or so and do the same again the royal engineers where their mind detectors checked all the shoreline on the friendly sides and the sbs then swam backwards and forwards taking the gradients for the handicraft to come in on the beach and looking for any tetraheders or obstacles that could be on the force there were none the sbs then decided they'd go around the other side it's the occupied area to to gather intelligence which is quite right and that's what they're very very good at we went back to the farmhouse and the farmer uh wife had cooked a lovely he was cooking a lovely dinner for us and he said we could sleep in the street pins that night before we left off the mark the following day the sbs returned but they had 12 argentinian officer prisons with them they said that the arches had actually surrendered to were coming looking for them and that they were in a pretty bad state but the sbs had relieved them of their ration packs so we'd have something to extra to eat we didn't know the farm was going to feed us at that time our ration packs weren't all that good on opening the officers ration packs argentinian ration packs we found a miniature bottle of whisky in each one brilliant we hadn't had a drink since we left ascension arms that that's in fact since we left the uk at that stage none of my team so i said okay i'll keep the whisky until we've finished the conflict and we'll celebrate a little bit later this comes to light in my story in a minute we got back to fearless and made our report and in fact which was a bluff code was suitable for the land if we'd be at a later date we then carried on the rest of the war doing repairs on various ships and and uh damage propellers we worked on a couple of submarines that actually bounced off the seabed or hit rocks the last time the fortland islands had been surveyed professionally it was in the 1800s so the charts in the area weren't very good at all on the 8th of june i had a signal came through again uh we thought the the war was about to end it was getting close so i decided we we'd drink the whisk there were 16 of us so we drank whisky and i suppose it was about a thin wall full each not nice another knot but it really was nice when i was handed another signal saying H.R.S. Plymouth has been hit by four bombs in a nice light way get your arse over there mr fellows have sorted out what would be it was dark nighttime got into our Germany and drove well about half an hour's drive to where Plymouth by that stage was at anchor we could see Plymouth because she was on fire and listed over to the port side that's on fire quite a bit uh we got to Plymouth most of the blazes by the time we got there had been put out but it was still glowing in places where I was met by a sub-left tenant on the call deck who uh once i introduced myself he said right mr fellows i'll show you the bombs i said no sir thank you very much i'd like to go to the bridge first to meet the captain he said right sir follow me and he shot away like a racehorse now the ship was totally dark in total darkness no lights on whatsoever so i thought well i know where the bridge is but i don't know the way around this ship so i walked forward towards the bridge and i think i bumped into every obstruction on the upper deck on the way it was so dark i'm not allowed to the bridge the bridge door was open and there was one little red nightlight on the bridge that seemed quite a few people on the bridge i stepped into the bridge and i tripped over the sperm water the little ledge underneath the door on the bridge that stopped water going into the bridge itself as i tripped over i fell and supported myself on the hands as i hit the deck but i was quite aware when i breathed out at a smell of stale whiskey coming out on my breath and i thought oh bloody hell an arm assisted me back up right again and i looked up right into the face of captain pentree captain of the plumber whoops i introduced myself quickly and he said right mr fellows what do you need i said right is the communications back to the area where the bombs are i didn't know what the state the bombs were where that's he he said no but we can run a hard wire for you i said well will you please do that and have someone fairly responsible on the bridge with opad and pin you can write down all the instructions and routine that i give him as i progress he said yeah i can do that and i said then could you get all of the ship's companies that aren't involved in keeping the ship afloat as it is the five might finish get them all on the fossil please lower the guard rails get them all addressed in a once only suit with their lifejackets inflated yes we can do that and we don't need many people coupled down the entry perhaps a couple in the damage control HQ or i said right so i went back after and looked at the damage one bomb the four bombs had actually hit the plumber one had gone straight through the funnel and out the other side one had bounced off the flight deck it had hit as it was bouncing it hit a depth charge that was on the flight deck an area of depth charge which was about to be loaded onto one of the choppers and set night to that but the aircrew actually kicked to the mold it so it fell over the side so the bomb and the depth charge had fallen over the side the third one had gone through the mortar mark 10 the anti-submarine mortars magazine damaged five mortars inside pretty bad bounced back up and hit the center barrel of the mark 10 mortar firing mechanism the three barrels on the other deck it had actually gone through the center well i've bent that it had a mortar inside it as well which had exploded and the fourth one had gone straight over the side we i went into the the magazine and there were damage mark 10 depth charges all over the place it some had fallen out of the backs of damage there was explosives over the deck and over the deck pretty bad mess i saw a small locker there which had safety keys in and i knew from my sort of tazik torpedo anti-submarine experience on my frigate 25 years previous to that that was a safety key that you put into these mark 10 mortars to stop them actuating when they weren't ready for being fired you've troubled with the mortar bombs and my plan was of course was to throw them over the side which if i hadn't put this key in and deactivated them as i throw them over the side they got to a certain depth they were going to explode anyway and sink the ships i thought bloody hell can't afford to do that we put the keys in all the depth charge all the mark 10 depth charge i couldn't switch them to safe i then took about three or four hours separating all the wires in the damaged depth charges and insulating them so they wouldn't touch and make a circuit and perhaps explode the depth charge again didn't know an awful lot about depth charges apart from a little bit i'd learnt on the course 25 years previous uh once i i was fairly safe that all the electrical wires were insulated and we weren't they won't get the touch we then got my two guys to clear all the broken the explosive that was lying all over the deck and then dustpan and brush and just to throw that over the side and then we got them both on the upper deck and we rigged a take off and passed it through the entry hole where the bomb had come into the magazine into the magazine i then rigged another take off inside the magazine above the backs holding the bombs and i gently lifted the mark 10 mortar bomb so that i could attach their take off to it and with my legs pushed the bomb as they pulled on the table out through the entry hole one at a time about five bombs so we got them outside hoisted them up to the upper deck and then very gently lowered them over side over the side on a spare bit of rope knowing that they wouldn't or hoping they wouldn't go bang because i switched off the safety switch all the time i was doing this i reported my actions to the officer on the bridge we noted them down but we were very very aware of the rest all of the ship's company 250 in the ship's company on the photo singing all the time for about six hours but they were singing hymns like for those in peril on the sea etc etc stinks a little bit of lack of confidence i didn't really grade them but there we are i finished it and the officer on the bridge said is that finished mr fellows and i said yes he said what about the seacats i said pardon are you calling the mark 10 seacats now he said no we have two seacat missiles on the port side on their mortar that were damaged by cannon fire one started smoking and we've put the smoke out now with with a hose but we still got two damaged missiles up there could you possibly look at those i thought yes i'll look at them but again i know nothing whatsoever about seacat missiles they climbed up onto the launcher i grabbed hold of the wings of the one of the missiles to a launcher and lifted i found i could lift them i thought oh bloody hell i'll lift them off the launcher and i'll use my favorite routine tie them around them and lower them over the side as well and i managed to do that without the assistance of my two guys then went on to the bridge and said to the sub lieutenant that's it finished you have no more damage mark 10 mortar bombs you have no more damage seacat missiles on board i thought he was gonna kiss me but he didn't you weren't allowed in those days you would be now there we are he said should i get hold of the captain mr fellows i said no leave him on the functional and let him finish the assignment i think at the moment then please get the captain came back on the bridge shook my hand and said thank you very much indeed told him really what we've done and what should we take in and he said did you have any problems at all i said no no it all went very very well thank you uh i said the only thing was the singing he said oh right a bit of a religious nature he said are you not of a religious persuasion mr fellows i said well it's not that it did stink a little bit of lack of confidence he said well look can i be completely candid with you and i said well yes please sir he said my ship had been through hell of a lot we were hit by bombers we were on fire we were lucky to survive the conflict we've really been in the thick of it and plum have had he said i knew i had unexploded bombs water bombs on board i didn't know whether i still had argentinian bombs on board or not he said i'd call for help they said the only bond disposal man available in the southern hemisphere to help you arrived on board i thought christ is pissed he says there was a certain lack of confidence mr fellows i i went back to sir tristam and told the guys following that i had a fairly quiet war in as much as peace was declared not so long after that we then had not a present job but the job of going around most of the uh buildings in state and cleared all the trenches and the uh areas that uh the argy to choose unfortunately why we were in navy point we found 12 on 12 until our argentinian sailors that had all without any doubt once so ever been executed shot behind the head all in naval uniform i took cat ribbons of three of them just to prove their existence and reported the fact uh to the option that we had set up in stanley at that time they're all very very young uh sailors argentinian sailors uh very sad very sad uh we then uh once we finished all the ids and bombs went uh back on fearless to be told that uh we were going to travel on fearless back to ascension homes which where we would be lifted off by schlock and we would be the first team repatriated back to the uk and we were mic can we just clarify for our friends at home i'm i'm guessing they would shot for desertion or or or something shot they were shocked by their own side i reported this and i went to the order of trading quarry for the for the damage on the tristram afterwards because i'd i'd written a report on the tristram about bits and pieces i didn't particularly like as a seaman but that that was so i was asked and and i mentioned again then it was uh forgotten as were my reports on the bomb removal on the plumber and the uh entry yes i don't know why definitely shot by the home size and sorry carry on mate i just wanted to clarify that for for right uh that was the end of my my my uh Auckland's conflict the end only in as much as the one good thing as far as i was concerned uh i was invited to number 10 down the street for the victory celebration dinner which was extremely uh very honoured extremely pleased i was the only non-commissioned officer there couldn't get anyone more junior than me or the admirals generals more staff etc etc i was told to be there at 6 30 a little bit earlier uh the probably uh the rest of the the guests but i met the police on the main gate and said what's the procedure there's the most junior person don't go in first i draw a way to mask they didn't know but they said it's probably best to wait till last then the one it you go to the pub down the corner there were some of the special bachelors they're having a pint because you're in uniform that number are really uh bobbin you had a couple of pints went in met mrs facture and i have a lovely photograph shaking hands there as we went in went to a dinner and met some very very interesting people including they put me fairly close to michael clap so at least i had someone with a little who knew a little bit about my background that i could talk to and and the commanding chief fleet as well my wife then joined us so as all the wives did at 2300 11 o'clock after the main dinner uh for for for another reception about halfway through the reception mrs facture the prime minister said to me mr fellows i want to give you a special treat for all the help you did i'm going to show you uh something i treasure very much in the cabinet bring your wife so we went into the cabinet room that's a long cabinet table there covered with a nice green base cover and she said when the forklift's conflict came about and the Argentinians invaded she said very few people knew where the forklifts were she said we had no maps at all of it in the building so i sent one of my senior civil servants down to the bookshop around the corner to buy an atlas she said and look what he came back with she showed me this atlas she said there's 20 pages so we had to take the stables out and sell a tape all the pages together so we can get a complete picture of the forklift islands we said and we couldn't do that on the on the cabinet table because it's covered in green base she said so we did it on the floor beneath the table she said stand back and look i said back and i could see this map underneath the cabinet table she said right come with me on the table she said and i'll show you where you worked i said yes ma'am so i got onto my hands and knees on the table underneath she said this is St Carlos she said and your first one was just outside there she said then you went right over here she said as the marines were yomping across here and as she said here she leaned over to me grabbed me by the shoulders and kissed me on the lips the prime minister kissed me on the lips i was so shocked i tended to stand up forgetting i was underneath the cabinet table which was a thick oak table i nearly put myself out unconscious almost i could see stars i dragged myself out from under the table she stood me up right helped me to stand up right that's my wife did as well held onto my hand and said mr fellows ever since i've been a little girl i've wanted to kiss a sailor in uniform kiss the prime minister chuffed make this is why i try to avoid world leaders you know i can't they want a quick snog i'm like sorry my love sorry my love like you you just go in runny country i'll i'll i'll do some podcasting or something yes well i left there and went back to the navy a very kindly put me up in the door just a hotel six in the morning i left down the street arrived back at the door just a hotel at 6 30 and he to meet commander north as he was in he's now of course sir sir lord north and he's waiting outside and he said i knew your story mr both the bombs you've done on the ship he said you didn't have to do it on my ship it's saying unfortunately he said but i've kept the bar open to buy you a pint it's half six in the morning sir i'd had an awful lot to drink then i've got a mustard march through the city of london at half seven he said i've organized that you'll no longer be in the group in the front he said you'll be in the second group and i've got a sailor either side to navigate you through the streets of london so we had a couple of points before we passed mick what was it what was it like coming home how how did you get back to the uk and what kind of response did you meet we we were lifted by uh should not helicopter for fearless you can only put two wheels on back end and when we climbed on board uh we we got to ascension where an rpo regulating petty officer said i did the bar been open before you can have a few drinks not too many because you're flying home and we see 10 tomorrow we totally ignored him and quite a few drinks we arrived in bries norton and we're met by hamish louden the captain sing three to i'd met tony lombard day four if you're pure officers and superintendent of diving told my guys were told that uh they had a fortnight's leave straight away their wives were there most of them which is very good i had to go back with my uh grand officer to verland i was given a lift back by superintendent diving so we could do a little bit more debriefing and then sent home that that evening instead of with family so it's no problem it took a while for me to settle down uh every last sort of loud bang and noise i was trying to dive under the kitchen table over the dining room table as you do it took it took a little while were you were you were you married me yes married to three daughters oh god unfortunately and i only found out about a month or so ago unfortunately when the bomb exploded on on the antelope my wife had been told that i'd been killed and two days later told no it wasn't me my daughter was doing uh alien spell this daughter so it's pretty more for the render stride from the family than it was for me did they oh not very good at all i'm just you know i'll see the upset in my son's eyes when i go on an expedition for the weekend and he thinks i might not come back you know and it has i mean have they have you ever like had a good old chat with your daughters about this time and if they told you what what it meant to them as kids that that their their daddy was down there doing all this well so yes so to us yes i have to quite a long time after i've corresponded as much as i could which wasn't very much at all i think quite a few of the letters i said home were lost quite a few of the letters my wife had sent me were lost the unfortunate thing about our task down there like so many others we were moving around all over the place you know for for the post you did try and find this was very very difficult i told them they didn't query me after the water they helped me to to to get over it i had other jobs to do uh after the conflict uh i wrote my book uh once i retired i was well after my 77th birthday during the lockdown for covid really so that they could then understand what what i did they knew i was in the bomb disposal business because they'd seen that since they were born uh when i was married uh i was in the i was on the mine hunter then but in the scolish more northern island bomb disposal team and then the far east team so they've been with me quite a bit quite a bit uh i was asked a couple of times if i'd like constant and all that but i said not really i'll make them end in a few beers would probably be quite sufficient thank you i'm i'm happy about that mate you know it's um people deal with different things in different way and i think our life experiences affect how we interpret different things but i'm i'm so glad you've come for it so strong is it do do you think make like you've just told us a story that like the world hasn't bloody heard and it and it's phenomenal and it's incredible and and obviously it's in your book we're gonna folks link for the book um uh link for mix wonderful book which is called not for the glory which i think is self-explanatory um but do you ever think like say for example the second world war all these stories were going on weren't they of people that were doing untold things that never got any recognition not that i'm you know saying they well i don't i don't know what i'm saying but you know people will do such brave things won't they for for then for the nation i guess for their family for that for that for the unit yeah i i did what i was trained to do i i didn't expect to ever be in a situation where i was dealing with an explosive device where i couldn't evacuate everyone from the area and i've done that dozens of times and even in Ireland in conflicts in Hong Kong and event gotta advise but when you get to a situation where you've got 450 men on the ship which you know if your procedures are wrong and there was no procedure it was the procedure i'd made up if that was wrong not only we're gonna kill yourself you're gonna kill all these people was pretty awful the good thing that comes from it is i have 450 very very very good friends now on the hms andrew crew and 250 very very very good friends and wives on hms plim of crew and that that really is gratifying to be able to say without a doubt whatsoever i saved 700 people and i can give you their names if you want it's a great feeling you don't do it for the medals and the make amends and the awards because that's what you pay to do but but you don't expect to do it in those sort of circumstances you're not trained to do it in those circumstances nobody foresee it or saw it ever happen there was no questions hopefully there won't be again in the future yes let's pray let's pray not i'm i'm i'm guessing in the royal navy community in the 80s there was lots of babies named mech uh yes i met met i've met quite a lot of the wives and uh i'm in touch with john phillips a good friend of mine who lost his arm we meet as often as possible and of course a samurai to do in various but but it's nice knowing that i get an email every now and again from one of two of the guys and off guy on the entrance saying we're still in our thoughts and my wife's mic thank you it's great absolutely fascinating absolutely just i think you've you've blown us all away we were going to talk i'm just looking at my notes here um you're inspector of clearance diving for special forces can you tell us a bit about that right i would go down to herifers uh herifers had in their boat group had chats trained in mixed gas and air diving but they're set up in uh in in their barracks down there wasn't still in lines wasn't very good they had a lovely big splinter ball which one side of it looked like the case of a submarine they could simulate anything up to us almost a force eight gal in there they needed their jeff in bits and pieces in there but they had no air charging arrangements or bits and pieces so i was able to design and get built on using the vital authorities and air charging system for them to uh sort of things um assist them in producing equipment to access ship sides uh explosive systems and pneumatic systems and then generally help them out uh with their diving there was quite a bit of inter-surface rivalry between them the SPS and the SAS quite as you would expect um probably the cds everyone likes to think they're the best and all this and they don't necessarily talk to each other they were using various different equipments uh to do the same job i would spend a month on and off at harryford and then go down to uh pool with the SPS who didn't need all that additional advice it was more setting up a better relationship between the two of them that don't actually tell the sb what to do we we trained with the sb quite a lot uh as clearance divers uh they they came to us for mixed gas diving we used to go for them uh to them for canoeing they they they would they would give us the canoes with no bloody back rest because crappy ones they had so so we did the same when we took them for mixed gas dive we made sure they were going home as well so a good liaison between the two but it really was to set up what in fact then turned out to be the combined force that they've got now before they fully amalgamated the two were just taken quite a while but they all work under the the same command now then they run the second separate command the army command operated the SAS navy operated the SPS it just didn't work there was a blue on blue down there which perhaps shouldn't have happened even on my role in bluff code where we were talking to the army engineers or with us doing the help to do the beach clearance and the SPS we continued to hear us three units there we found out it was very difficult to understand each other's procedures there was there was no there had been no liaison whatsoever that I went from there to say to uh to be in the inspector or the assistant superintendent of diving I was inspector of clearance diving special forces clearance diving side which came about because in my younger days as a chief I worked in north which for the fleet clearance diving officer I was his warrant officer and I had to travel around all the ships in the fleet talking to the ship's divers and help them to resolve any problems that they had and and that worked very very well and they were always pleased to see me because it was it was assisting them knocking them and it worked so well and I can remember saying to my boss at that time Lieutenant Commander John Richies bloody hell we could do a similar sort of person a clown star in charge could all of our teams do their own bloody thing even as much they paint their own nanos in bomb wagons different colors etc etc so so when I when I returned after the Falklands John Richies was made superintendent of dive and I said can you remember some time here Mick you said we could do someone looking after the clearance diving teams and put them by I said yeah you've got the job that was great I kept that job till I left the service in 1990 I left in 1990 or before that we will go on master six my last two jobs master six 1987 the Herald of the Enterprise sank bell doors were left open in Zabruga with 191 missing people at the time I was duty officer in Vernon and my task at that particular time or task I took on was mobilizing our teams to go across there by helicopter to assist as much as possible and getting survivors out this lasted about about 48 hours and we realized that nobody else that we could rescue I was then invited with a superintendent of diving to go across the Belgium to talk about what had happened to give a verbal report and to offer assistance and advice on the salvage operation to recover the the victims not not the ship itself and I came up with quite a few ideas could I be covered a few bodies from crashed aircraft and various things in the past quite a few and so as a few from food experience suggested a few things which obviously impressed the Belgium will provide you so much so they said well would you like to do it mr fellow so once you ask and then you've got to I went across then on the 6th of March or 7th of March with a team of six clearance divers which came from the Fleet Clearance Diving Team Eddie Kerr was the chief with me and a team of addition team of five Belgium clearance divers and we went on board it was pretty hard to find accommodation and getting ourselves sorted out in in in Zebrugge because it was closed down for the for the winter but we've got accommodation etc etc then went on board the ferry once they'd got it upright it took quite a few weeks to get it upright about six to eight weeks I believe it was I don't know exactly now we went out to the ferry once she was upright stable by helicopter and we went down on board and we went onto the bridge and I had already made out sort of a state board and we had the state board on the bridge and it was sort of a backboard drawing of the whole of the ship all the various compartments and the superintendent at the diving command Jack Burkett had come with me to do the liaison with all the media from all over the world was there so but he came on board on the first day and I said to him I said if you stop on the bridge and as we search each compartment and we know it's clear we'll let you know and you could just note all these on the state board such a great idea but it wasn't long after we started about an hour or so we went down the first deck that we realized where the ferry had been on the sandbank for a few weeks all the mud black mud had washed in through the open bell doors filled all of the compartments it had collapsed an awful lot of bulkheads which really were prefabricated almost cardboard it's you know so thin and so we had a problem just just getting clearance so I organized a tugboat to come along so high pressure hoses on board and the hoses took two men to hold one to hold it one to operate they they were that powerful but they they did the job and we'd go into each compartment starting we give the bells one deck to do then we did the next deck and we started for the bells working after and we blasted our way into the compartment through the mud with the high pressure hoses had to cut some holes in the ship side as well because there was couldn't so much water in it I was a bit worried about the stability so it drained away and as as we came across courts we would gently of gently as possible once we cleared the mud around the courts cleared the courts pick up any obvious belongings to the court it was a woman and barely there was a handbag we found an awful lot of none of x servicemen on or service monics on the boat that still had their duty free in the carrier bags in the hands they hadn't ditched them when they were trying to get off but we got all those together and then we had to take the bodies right after on the ferry so that we could initially lift them off by chopper but then lift them on to a tugboat and take them ashore we worked very very slowly through all the compartments and and and the vehicle compartments of course and you'll see some pictures of sure you have the vehicles smashed all over the place there were no drivers in what we had to search in the drivers were the drivers in the in the restaurant area and some that they got a free cabin and they got some in the cabin switchboard down below by the engine all the engine room doors had ultimately closed when the ship sank so we had to open those up with hydraulic pumps the the the lorry drivers invariably are fairly big guys anyway with being underwater for them for time they've taken on lots more water they're extremely heavy so I got hold of six tin barbs the ones I used to use when I was a small lad in the 40s and we would put the corpses into a tin bar for their belongings and when we could drag the tin bar on a piece of a along the upper along the deck the passageways to the after deck rather than trying to carry these heavy corpses we got to the uh the canteen part of the uh the ship and this is one of the parts in fact the opening video by book have been this experience there because as I played and I had the hose with my lead diver patty doing it behind me all the way to the hose I pushed the hose and what I soon realized was a large glass panel which ran the full length of the dining room set in the dining room into two as I blasted the mud it blasted off the of this glass panel there were 20 or 30 dead people behind the panel where their faces pressed against the glass we've all done that as a child at home press your hands you face against the glass and look at mum flatten your nose on the other side it was horrendous really bloody awful a lot of those people we had to separate forcibly separate their arms and legs they were entangled together to to be able to put them in the bath and to carry them back off the the the the the entire operation took us seven weeks to complete we recovered 191 people in that time we missed one small baby 18 months off just and I well I had my theories of what happened to that small baby we had to use high pressure pumps to take out some of the water mud that we were diluting you can imagine what may have happened it was bloody awful the families were on the jetty when we landed each night by chopper or top boat with photographs of their relatives and as I said earlier I developed over the years my own mind I can actually blank out faces of dead people and I'm looking at them I'd learned this well before the hellish job and I can just say I know it's a man a woman a child boy or a girl a large driver could he's bloody heavy but that's what I couldn't tell the features the faces I couldn't recognise them again ever albeit on one day when we had not an awful lot to do it's too rough for us to get on the boat we went to visit the mobile mortuary that was there they invited us to come in and have a look at the condition of some of the people we recovered and they really did a brilliant job in making the dead people respective before they hands them back to their relatives a brilliant job Irish company was coming in the name that was the hell of a job seven weeks a terrible job terrible job probably one of the worst jobs I think ever we covered lots wouldn't say hundreds but an awful no not probably hundreds yes I covered we covered a VC ten at one time which was for the paratroopers but lots of bodies but they've always been either men or elderly people military men or in when I was in the Far East team we're always recovering people from the monsoon dishes that fallen in but I'd never ever had the task of recovering young children families all together holding hands or in the same cabin bloody bloody awful we had people in fridge spaces that were trying to escape in the dark and just open doors thinking this is the exit of the defeats and things like that things had a good team brilliant team who's stuck with it all the time young divers all yeah there come I'm just guessing it's just best you don't remember those faces isn't it because if you start getting into the yeah what do you call it like the interpersonal politics that then you then you then become attached to the families that want to know how the loved one died and then then you become a part of their life for the rest and yes and you don't deserve that you know you you need to be outside of that you know it's yeah it's it's a job and it's one at the end of the day you can look with that again in reflection and think at least those parents and relatives now had someone to mourn very properly and that's that's again so I'm not a particularly religious guy but having said that I've prayed to everyone in the time you know I'm a friend of Allah and Jesus and the whole lot I've tried them all I don't seem to have worked but but it's nice to be able to hand people back for a proper Christian or Muslim or whatever funeral how how did the Belgium government treat you they were very very good we were invited over I was more than the MP for that we were invited over to meet the king of the Belgians went over to my best number ones as you do went to the palace and waited a while and eventually a couple of guys wandered in one was smoking a cigarette and pair of jeans and a jumper and other chap was a little bit smarter and they come across and we were traveling away for ages and he said well you know there's some food laid on shortly I said well you know we swore the food but really waited to meet the king before we sort of take advantage and he said I am the king but what a fashion chap turned out to be they were good the Belgium divers were very good we started off with a fairly large team they dwindled in size after a period of time they were young lads and it was a bloody awful job they worked yes they did one of my guys when we finished the job asked if he'd left a bit early Prince Martin went with the back to the fleet team and they went on another job where involved in a little bit of water skiing in the pressure time and it was about a week after we'd finished your job he was skiing had an accent on the scheme broke his back and currently in the wheelchair now sad Prince Martin my last job in the Navy a few weeks before I left but we're in fact in September 88 not weeks a couple of years before I left I was again assistant superintendent at that time when we had a signal in saying HMS Southampton in the Persian Gulf had been in collision with the SS Tall Bay large ship be large ship been a collision and damage her port side and ripped open the sea slug uh magazine and uh that flooded uh sorry mate is it is this did you say SS is that American ship merchant merchant ship uh sea dart sorry sea dart missiles get confused old age yeah sea dart missiles in the magazine uh assist so uh the superintendent died a big fly out there look at the situation see what we can do more than missiles there's other people responsible for salvage and doing the repairs etc game and your job is purely the missiles make me out so I said yeah I'm about to leave the Navy haven't got too long to do now and my relief Colin Kidman wants us Colin Kidman is joined can I take him why not good idea so we went into port with dockyard initially to look around the assistantship of the Southampton to get a feel where the magazine was how these missiles had never seen one before were housed in the magazine how they were so it's safe to accept and get a general feel about the ship then we we we we we we flew out to the Persian Gulf uh to to uh look at the ship we went straight from the airport onto the ship itself put an old pair of overalls and looking at the damage on the outside got a hold of a couple of air diving sets off the ship and I dived in through the gash in the star beside uh some port side side port side swam actually into the magazine and there was one dummy missile used for loading very soon front in the way so sort of he's dead out through the magazine and had a good look at all the state of the missile still in their backs but some jammed and pushed against bulkheads etc and uh all around scouts are swimming around with me we've just regarded as a quite often did the diving rules and regulations about constant signals and standby divers and all that sort of cobblers and uh we're looking around I thought just an idea hit me out of the blue so I went onto the sort of channel plate in the back of the magazine and I laid on my back on the diving set and I was looking up night and I thought this again is similar to the Andrew I know that above us there's a four inch gun or a gun on a focal and there's a launching pad for these missiles if I lift that gun off and I lift those missiles off and I cut a bloody big hole I can lift all these damaged missiles up through that and as I was that left thought was going through my mind scouts came swimming over fitting like hell in a bit of a panic grabbed hold of me thinking I'd passed out or was unconscious on the floor of the magazine but about there was dreaming so we got out again and I told the scouts night scouts think we could possibly do this and instead of shear legs and a bloody take-all we'll cut a big hole a really big square hole and we'll fabricate a gantry above it we're in a dockyard we'll get them to make a gantry and we'll weld it to the other deck with railway lines on top of it and take those that move along the railway line and we lift the missiles up one at a time run them along the gantry and whatever barge alongside and in the barge we'll put 24 metal coffins little compartments full of water so we can take them up and lower them all into their little coffin and once we've got them in the barge then that's someone else's problem not ours great we went back onto the upper deck looking marvelous scruffy hosed ourselves down because there's a lot of wool and mud in the magazine and a commander come up in his white suit and said you mr fellows yep he said well the the Commodore is waiting for you in the lounge in the hotel he's been waiting a while now he said oh I can tell you he's not too happy a man I thought I'd better come and get an idea of what the problem was before I saw him and nobody's told me what to see me anyway so he said you're obviously going to change whereas in ovals covered in diesel smell a little bit of time so I thought yeah so we did so we changed into the pusses tracksuit bottom no they were sort of woolly ones at that time the truck used to hang around about in these they were too smart looking and they had a nice clean white t-shirt on so we both got dressed in that pusses gin shoes and we arrived went to the hotel we're going to lift the hotel went into the reception said where's the meeting they followed us where it was in the conference room went to the conference room opened the door and there were lots of talking as soon as we opened the door there's dead sobs we locked in and there must have been 50 or 60 officers and senior representatives there all in their starch white suits with gold rays and medals all over the place like they were going for divisions on parades and Commodore Moore who looked at Pony Moore who again I knew very well from his younger days was at the end of the table and he said hello Mick nice to see you come dressed for the occasion again and I said without thinking did I come to help you move the missile circle go to fucking divisions he said to two commanders in the front shift call it Mick your friends sit there yeah we told him what we found told him what my suggestion was lots of engineer commanders ships constructors etc etc scratch ahead and couldn't think of anything else to do any other better thing for well I thought let's strengthen the side put strengthening bars before we cut the upper deck large h bars etc etc normal engineering type strengthening bits and pieces I thought okay enough obviously you've got to do that etc etc and then we'll do it he said what else do they say well we need a larger team you know we can get another half a dozen divers be handy from from from Portmouth etc and we can go to the right and we arranged to meet again the following morning went back to the hotel and there was a signal there waiting for me saying return to Portmouth as soon as possible on first flight leave leave warrant officer Kidman there to carry on with whatever's got to do so so I flew back in left scale chair to carry out the job which took him about took about eight weeks in all told they did that procedure which worked very well and then they towed the barge out to a secret location but very very deep water just outside the mouth with scouts on board the barge so when they got to the right position they opened the top of the Kingston vows filled it up with water the same to the seabed I was required back urgently in the UK so they're definitely super tenor diving going for that what would be or was really at that stage Lanna was leaving the name Mick on that subject what what have you got to say or what words of advice can you give for young men or women now that might might be doing the job that that you've done it's the clearance diving branch as far as I'm concerned is the best branch in the Royal Navy obviously I'm sure to say that it is it's the selection in my particular time was 85% found rates and an awful large salary on on the course itself 35 people starts on my course six of us finish but once you're in as a clearance diver it's a brilliant job you you're not too involved with my days you weren't too involved in exercises firing guns etc etc it's an essential part in my time there was so much rubbish left out of the second world war you didn't have to exercise no you have to because it's a different kettle of fish and they do exercise they're still special forces to a certain extent they now all qualify in parachuting and various other trains on top of the diving side as well it's in my opinion still the best branch in the Royal Navy to be in it's exciting work but times you're left to your own initiative I would do it all again at the top of the hat it's yeah we have I think there's one or two ladies quite right now I know some have qualified in the past why not why not yes yeah and Mick what why would you say why is it the bootnecks are so much more handsome than the Matlow's well don't go into water too much today I had to dress like a bootnick at one time and I've done a bit of a rollicking at one time we got a letter from the captain of Vernon saying Mr Fellows Royal Naval Dress Regulations article 12 of the log of what what what state that if you request to grow a beard you will grow a full beard and cease to use a razor I wish you to abide by those regulations I've always trimmed my beard and bloody hell what can I do so I went back to him and I asked if I could go and see him and he said yes you can and I said I understand so you'll know from my naval records that I spent quite a bit of time in the provinces in Northern Ireland said yes I know that I said well when I was there I worked with the SPs and other people quite a lot I said they all grew their long hair they had two quick nose days and we wore whatever bags we could I said it's bloody obvious I wasn't going to grow my hair very long so I thought I'd reshape my beard so it looked like a silly beard I said and I'm now regularly going across for court cases and I don't want to fly over there now looking like a Matlow who's just come out of dress uniform saying I'm all Mr Fellows that's it so I got away I think I'm the only man that's ever had an official molecule to having a non-service beard I kept it ever said that's good days as bad days make listen I employed some booties as well when I left and set up my own company which is another long story they carried on to my 17th 7th birthday I had two SPS guys working with me in Somalia for four years basically as well as looking for mines and blow it up in issues I didn't add in some protection as well we weren't allowed to be armed we're working mainly medicine some frontier but we were able to hide guns in various places and we had the expertise if we needed them I didn't trust Matlow's regards still don't make listen W02 sorry W Warren officer first class McFellow's friends NBE DSC BEN make I I'm almost sort of lost for words which is not good as a podcast host but but just thank you so much for everything you've done not just from myself and my wonderful wonderful audience out there and my my my friends I know I speak for every Royal Marine and and and every servicemen it and you know that's before we talk about the Belgian public it it you've you've lived an incredible life and you've done incredible things and I'm just so happy that we we could cover this on you know in in our mere chat of what is it like two hours I'm sure we could talk for for 20 20 hours and not even not even really even cover the bases of it all but make thank thank you so much what what does the future hold for you now because you don't you don't look like a man that's um about to hold back but when I left the navy which is another story if you read my book off the gory you see that I did a further 23 years as a commercial bomber mine disposal man on land and underwater and had some exciting times there very very exciting times in areas where war had just finished and there was no law and order whatsoever I retired on my 77th birthday having at that just completed four years in northern Iraq after the war there clearing the minefields and the unexploded weapons I had to retire because I'd already contacted just about every tropical disease going I don't malaria twice dengue fever leishman Asia I'd survive prostate cancer and I had heart failure uh as a result of those so I thought was a bit time I packed it and knocked it up knocked it in and uh sort of did a bit of gardening instead and now 82 and uh I still do a bit of gardening but the book took me a year during lockdown gave me something to do fortunately talking to people like you now give me something else to do on the other time uh it's been a pleasure talking to you I it's nice I enjoy talking about my exploits to people that are interested in this you know it's it's I did a job that I was very very very well trained my instructors were all second world war p-party and diverse who'd actually done it you know well I knew at one stage in 1957 I counted I personally had met new five Victoria crosses for the second world war the people that now write books I'd met brilliant grants to be in when I work commercially I was able to employ x clearance divers and sbs people all over the world so I work the same people with the same mindset it really was brilliant knife I had make do would you dive at all now is that something I can't I had in part of the story I had a factured skull uh when I factured my skull uh that would normally stop you diving totally does normally but I went for medical uh with with another good friend of mine who's now passed away commander ramsey pierce and surgeon commander ramsey pierce who was a senior medical officer in the diving world at that time and he said to me well well mick he said you've been diving a long time now he said I don't want to stop your diving and stop your diving play he said what I suggest you do he said is carry on diving he said but I'll limit you to 50 meters and if on the way down your head starts hurting come up again quick that was it I carried on diving the 50 meters did the odd sneaking went to 75 when there was nobody looking and then when I left the navy and I went for a diving medical the chap just started laughing he said basically brother off so I had to stop and such is the rich tapestry of life yes mick massive thank you once again I'm sure um our our audience my friends are going to want you to come back and and chat again um I wish you all the best in your your retirement and to our friends at home much love to you all please look after yourselves I really hope you've enjoyed this is um or I don't know if enjoy is the right word but you you know what I'm trying to say incredible story um it's touched on parts of my life the the the Falklands the Brugger and I never thought I would ever get to hear something so so so grassroots um from from such a incredible gentleman if you could like and subscribe would really appreciate it and we'll see you next time thank you very much