What's going on guys? We're back with another episode of the after hours podcast We have a very special episode today We have Joe Angelo on who has been an MIC member for a long time now And I know he's a club favorite.  She's like what in God's name Exactly Yeah, that's funny so sorry go ahead Yeah, so so anyways to start to kind of leave from there and that was during the summer And so I traded throughout the summer and I was you know watching the that chat room at that time and you know I couldn't discern between alerts and and trading for yourself But that's what I was starting to get the idea of dip buying and things like it was working for me But then for me You were mostly a long trader at that kind of time trading.   I thought you could just buy in buy out buy in buy out Cash settlement. I didn't know about anything Yeah, so I didn't learn a lot about that But then I got to the school year, you know being a teacher, you know, I just I didn't realize like oh Wow, I'm not gonna be able to do this, you know, because my full focus You know the teaching starts really early in the morning. You you know, you have to be focused on kids You can't just look at your phone or you know and and do it, you know, so I You know, I struggled with that for about two or three months and then I and I said I I've got it I can't really even do it. So from 2012 until you know, like 2015 or so I just you know, I may have had a couple trades a year Yeah, you know, and I tried to do it during the summer, but then I had other things going on I just didn't get back into it but I knew it was always something that I wanted to do I wanted to learn more about and and I Was kind of passionate about it at that time. I loved it But then the the room that I was with, you know, kind of turned more into a short room a shorting room and The guy that was running it. He's very good. He's down here in Florida now, but um and and you guys know him, but Mike Spinoza, right? Yeah, Mike Spinoza. Yeah, I love I love Mike bro. He's a good guy. He's a good guy Mad respect for that guy.  Yeah Animal, you know, I like him for other things too, you know, just as you know view on health and you know I talked to him about that stuff all the time, but like yeah, it's like biohacking and stuff I was just talking to him the other day about it. I think it's super interesting. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah Yeah, but go ahead.  He said if you're gonna follow anyone on Twitter or Instagram You got to follow this guy and this was like back in yeah, there's probably back in 2014 2015 Yeah, I started following bow and then somehow I Got Harry's Twitter on on top of that and then I was really following Harry and he was going through a time of I don't know what years it was because there was a long span of time there that it didn't do trading a lot But I just really locked into what he was saying. He was refining his craft.  So that's yeah, that's that's that's what led me to MIC That's cool. You kind of found MIC, I guess more so through me than Um, well, you found it out through bow, but you also started following me. Um, yeah Because I know that we've had a lot of we've had a lot of talks about, you know, certain stuff and Just longing and in general And um, how so how would you say that you're kind of doing now? So, I mean, we have your kind of Story of like, you know, in and out of like different kind of chat rooms and in and out of whatever Um, and like so maybe you could talk about like how you've been now like any any struggles any stuff like that because I mean We really wanted to have these types of podcasts too as like more of a kind of You know, I guess like mentor session as well as like, you know People who are on the come up and just lessons and and you know, kind of learning and stuff like that So maybe you could kind of talk about like how you're doing now Like any struggles that James and I can maybe talk about things that we've been through or you know, whatever I mean, we can just shoot the shit and drink here all night. I'm fine with that. But I mean Maybe we can Maybe we can uh kind of fast. Come on guys. Cheers. I know All right, I know this is the first time I I I'd usually never drink on these but you know, I opened one up for for joe like a fish out of water right now I'm like, yeah, I don't know what I'm doing. We'll drink one for you James. Thank you. I appreciate it all right So we'll kind of we'll kind of fast forward more so to uh now Yeah, yeah Yeah, so um, yeah, so so my trading now is You know a lot like I'm in a uh, I feel like I'm in a conflicted zone You know in my trading like I um, there's a couple of things that I've I've You know, when I when I started with m. I see Um, you know, I was really learning a lot and there was a there was a lot of like breaking breaking me into You know to knowing what to do. Yeah, I couldn't even find the hot chick at that time. I was struggling. I think I You probably don't remember it. I do remember dude I like I could not find it.  I I hadn't studied completely yet Of course, I'm gonna long at the VWAP where it's breaking down.   So I think as a as a long bias Harry if you want to start and then I can follow up with that for this first problem That we can go from there. Yeah. Yeah, I think as far as uh, so like let's just go from like how you would normally set up a plan at the open, you know, like um, you know because like to me like I watch a lot of different stocks a day like You know, we might have a random like well first of all what I do every single day And I've been doing this for about two years now Is I take a piece of computer paper every single day and every single stock that is mentioned in the mic chat I write it down doesn't matter if it's a first red day doesn't matter if it's a whatever I write it down because then I have a record of it. You know, I'm hawking the chat all the time I'm paying attention to every single goddamn thing that's going on The first thing that I want to do right because later in the day when I'm sitting here in the afternoon and I'm bored of Shit, and there's a setup that's kind of maybe sub par. I'm going to say to myself Okay, let me scan through all the rest of these stocks and maybe see if something's setting up just like you, right? You know, so I guess that's the first thing that I always want to do I mean having a lot of stocks is great, right bbig that was mentioning to avoid earlier in the day Later in the afternoon like I didn't catch it, but it ended up popping, you know going like 10% right? That's something that you want to kind of look at so for me like it's not FOMO It's just I want to be looking at all the charts just to see what's kind of going on just to see what's kind of moving I mean as far as the like missing shit at the open the open is the most difficult time to trade You know pre-market as a long trader if you're in the hot chicks talk pre-market Right that that's a time like if you have a small account you can make your day So I mean that's that pre-market is a very very good edge for longs as long as we're in a stock that's doing consistent volume You know that's trying to break out or whatever That's a kind of good time where you want to be in long, you know at the open it gets way more challenging and way more harder Now what I've been finding lately is that my biggest trades have been coming in the afternoon They've been coming, you know As we're about to go into after hours or they've been coming in the afternoon Right where we've had a stock that's kind of popped up midday You know sprt for instance today popped up midday Hovered view up all day and then at the end of the day, you know during that kind of Long reversal time that bow talks about we get that big big big move, right? And so for a lot of people their problem is that you know as a long trader They want to go in and at the open they're thinking oh, this is the the dip and rip. This is the time This is the time right but on a day like today. I didn't see anything like that I missed jivo today And I said to myself, you know what?   I'm happy for the stock, right? Highly dilutive ticker Probably shouldn't have ran that much. It did that's okay for me But I mean I'm not gonna I'm not gonna fomo into jivo when it's at nine dollars or whatever the the price was Only to get stuffed on lower, right? I got to say All right, this stock needs some time to reset this stock needs some time if jivo wanted to run again It would go, you know underneath vwap start curling higher, you know for that kind of high day clear out or high day push That's something that you can kind of look for but pay attention If stocks move and they have a very very big kind of first move like a first kind of move I'll always keep that on watch to see okay Maybe this can have kind of a secondary push and you look to get in on that secondary push rather than Long some fucking random stock that is a broken stock piece of shit, right? You don't want to be in those types of stocks if yeah, I have a rule where if it's done something once it can do it again And that's what you want to be kind of looking for Okay sbrt has ran once we know that this stock is a runner. It's highly manipulated You know, it's a it's a ticker that has been giving shorts trouble. Okay That's something to keep on your main watch right rather You know something that hasn't ran before that's broken.  That's just how I kind of see those type of struggles Yeah, I think for me like because I had the same issue for a long time where especially as a short bias trader because as long You know, you're looking for the hot chick a short bias guy is like we have low hanging fruit We have day ones. We have you know first red days We have all these different setups and for a long time I would end up Hitting all the I'd have like eight charts I would hit them all but with like small size and end up like making no money or I'd end up like Like you said foaming into one and maybe taking the loss on and all that stuff So what kind of fixed that for me was was two things one I just started looking if I have more than like like now I only have three charts on my screen And if I have more than three stocks on watch and that's for me because I know for myself personally I can watch three stocks and I can also trade three stocks with almost a hundred percent attention to either ones But you could only maybe for you it's only two maybe for you it's only one You know and I know guys who can do that with eight like bow So it's you got to find your rhythm and what stuff how many you can watch But for me once it gets over three stocks that I'm watching it gets down to my statistics at that point where I'm not a huge Stack guy, but I pay attention to the stocks that I've made the most money or the setups So like if it gets down to eight names I go well This stock has a but a little bit higher float than I like that I usually trade my edge is like under 30 million float Less than 30 percent in in IO You know xyz all that and then that's how I start to just get rid of the other one So for you as a long you kind of I think it would make sense to look at where you make the most money And if all of your setups have like the same equal opportunity of working Then I would just start to kind of eliminate the ones that you're like I might not it's fine like the stock is like a higher price I'm more focused and make more money on this setup And once you swallow the pill of like you're not going to nail every setup and you also don't have to You will make 10 times more money Because trying to nail every stock that's moving you end up like fucking yourself You end up screwing yourself over barely making money on any of them Whereas again, if you just focus on one in your niche Nine times out of ten in my opinion, that's the one where you're going to bank the most And it like I said earlier just it takes a long time to understand that like You don't have to hit everything if you try to hit everything you're going to miss all of it And so just like I said, I would find I would find where your niche is find what your best setups are And sometimes you just need to zone in on them and forget the rest if they hit they hit You can look back and say ah shit. I missed that, you know like bbig today It was my main watch of the day. I nailed the initial move was very excited about it It popped back up to like 1040 or whatever it was and I missed it because I was watching something else and I just said Shit, you know, I could have chased it. I could have started shorting the red The line took for when I was going red, but I just said shit. I missed it. I'm okay You know, let's avert my attention back to the next stock and stay there So I think those are the kind of things that like Long term will help you a lot. Yeah.  I mean the market changes all the time But what type of setups are you making the majority of your money on, you know, if you're not confident pre-market? You know, don't keep trying pre-market and saying well pre-market's got to work one day pre-market's got to work one day, right? Like maybe you and and you know, I mean You know, because a lot of people have just been trying to do these pre-market longs for months now And they're just still not getting it. So it's like, why do you keep doing this? You know, just say, okay, I'm not going to pre-market longs drop your ego and just say, okay I'm better at afternoon, right or I'm better on stocks that are running this much for center with this daily chart I mean, there's a lot of things that you can kind of look at rather than just saying to yourself you know I need to keep doing this and keep trying and keep trying, you know, because I watch 10 to 12 stickers pop up In the morning and there's only one that I'm going to be trading. So I'm like very selective pre-market I'm very selective and yeah, you know, and that's something that a lot of people need to work on Yeah, people get blinded by opportunity I think like like one thing to recognize like Alex Alex makes a watch four tickers But the bulk of his money usually comes from one like if you look at his P and L's I mean he has four tickers on watch But one ticker usually pays him out the most and the rest are just small-scaled But I think people I think people get blinded by the opportunity like you think I'm going to miss this setup And it's like, oh shit, it's like, why do people think that that setup's never going to happen again or that like I would rather Use my max size on a setup that's going to work Then use 30 size on eight different tickers because it's just it's too stressful for me. Yeah, I agree Yeah, and Joe, like I said, I think I see a lot of your charts and like I feel like when you're focused on a ticker You get the meat of the move. I've seen them.   It's got high steady consistent volume Um, you know, and it's really conforming to the lines. Those are the ones that you know If I'm presetting my orders, those are the ones that are are hitting and I need to be sizing in But you know, and that leads leads me to the other problem that I'm having is that I'm a single size trader. I'm a one in one out and I don't scale necessarily I I I do some sometimes maybe, you know, one or two, you know, uh entries, but But I don't I haven't I haven't learned to size in on my best setups And I I think it comes from, you know, just wanting to I I want to be a CPT right now I want to be consistent with profit profitable right now and other things in my life lead me to that, you know, You know, like Harry knows I I want I I don't ever want to work for another boss again in my life.   I get locked into that and then but that works against me You know, it definitely works against me. Another thing that works works against me is like I'm close to pbt You know, and I want to get over that the closer I get the tighter the tighter clinched I get by my sizing Um, and the next thing I know the ac goes out in the home and then I have to you know 1500 bucks into that and and then I'm down, you know back to you know You know a couple thousand from being pbt and I'm like, oh son of a gun It took me all this time to get there.  I'm wanting it so bad. I just lost more And then I'm back to some small size, you know super small size Oh I just I think you're on this. Yeah, good here. Go ahead. Very good.  My phone just started ringing again.  I need to fix this. Oh this I need to do that, right? I'm saying, okay All I want to do is just keep following the process so You know, my name's joe and I'm gonna I'm gonna you know Take the next week. I'm gonna I'm gonna look at all my trades. I'm gonna see what type of trades paid me out the most You know, take that printer behind you that cannon printer behind you And print out all your all yeah, take those charts and print out all your best setups, right?  I want to fix that a c Well, I need to follow the process and do this, right? Don't worry about some line at the open if that's not what has been making you money, right?  That is what takes you to that freedom level, right? The freedom level is being able to say to yourself, okay You know from someone like me I used to just trade the morning and now I just sit here all day And you know, if I see something in the afternoon, I'll take it if I see something in the whatever I'll take it But I'm waiting for things to set up, right? I'm not saying. Oh, I need to pay for this. I need to pay for that I'm saying, okay I'm going to wait and be as patient as I can for a really good setup And then after that, you know, I'll get paid out of it and whatever But I'm not even really focused on tnl during the trade. I'm saying, okay Is there is there a seller at 1940 that I need to be aware of? Is there a seller at 1980?  Okay, you know, I hesitated today on givo I missed it But I was able to say, okay I'm going to wait for a really good setup that I know that's going to pay me out later in the day Right and I had to watch an hour of givo And continuously going up and then apply the same patience that I had on that initial givo kind of breakout entry trade to a new one And it's just saying to yourself. Okay. I need to apply the same amount of patience on every single ticker I have a patience rule. I have an hour rule where if something goes up insanely insanely crazy at halt Okay, I gotta wait an hour I need to wait for the stock to pull down and then see if we can do a second like higher There's all these little FOMO rules like we all deal with it.  I I think you're I think you're emotional stuff too.    This is about to happen I've been on the phone with him when he's like slamming on on a short on a first red day like the uh, I think it was a test the first red day Or no is the coronavirus sector and when he's full size, it's like because it's fucking on But every trade up until then it's just like just because he locates 10 000 shares or whatever Doesn't mean he's using that he might only use 2000 but still make 2000 bucks or whatever. So I think the term max size confuses people like max size is not for every single trade It's max size is just what you make of it. Like I could say my max size is 10 million shares But oh, it's weird. I'm only using a thousand.   But if every trade adds up compounding You're just going to make the same amount of money long-term regardless So like for example, one of my friends is going to get the trading and he was uh, You know, he does carpentry and you know, he loves carpentry, but he doesn't make as much money as he wants And his mindset is perfect because he's like all I have to do He's like my life would be made if I could make 200 a day.  He's like, that's just I could live so comfortably off that And he's the way he's thinking of it is like, all right. Well, if Monday I take one trade I maybe I only maybe his max size 200 chair. He's like, what if I only get 100 chairs on but I make 50 bucks Cool The next day you make 70 bucks and the next day you make 200 bucks and the next day you make 500 whatever It's that's how I think of it in terms of like I just want to consistently be green because I've realized at the end of five days of five trading day period If one day like my P&Ls are funny because Monday I might only make like 600 bucks, right? But then like Tuesday I could make like 1800 and then Wednesday I could make like 300 Like it's it really is what harry said and you just come in every day Once you know the process that works for you All you do is your job is to stick to it and whatever it spits out like the way alex can make 700,000 on monday and then make 500 on tuesday and walk away from the screens and just be like I'm gonna go to stake like that's what you need to kind of that's very drastic But those are the that's where your your goal should be is it's just you follow the process Like harry said you print out your charts. You know what makes you the most money You stick to that and if on monday it spits you out a million dollars and tuesday it spits you out 10 dollars You did your best to stick to the process and you walked away with good risk management And it's it's easy to get drowned with them like I I got off twitter actually for a long time and I still really don't go on it much because I got intoxicated and like I focused too much on the profits and I was like well I'm only making a thousand dollars and this guy's making ten thousand dollars.   I want to buy a fucking nice watch I want to go on vacations, but the reality is like You know your time will come it's just comes to now Showing up doing your job sticking to the process and letting the process the profits kind of spit out You know, and it's it's not easy to be in a position where you need to make money Which is why bow says he doesn't recommend it But I would I would kind of take a wider stance in a different approach of like Oh, if I only make 50 bucks today, I know if I stick to the process I can make 500 bucks tomorrow You know, it's just that's how I approach it.  You do not need to long into that Right, right Something falls down. You know a similar situation, right?   Like I know we talk a lot You know, right, but the things that are holding you back is that You're you know, you should be worried about Misconsistency and not about missed opportunity and that's a quote from you know, I believe dr Love that wrote that to us. That's what you need to be worried about say, okay Miss something in the market, you know, that's okay.  You get stuffed on It's the price action that comes after the stuff move that really matters Does that think tank does that sucker do an offering and go lower? Or does that keep grinding up and grinding up and grinding up and stop you out as a short or you know Continue to go higher for you as long It's that type of stuff.   Like I got it Right, it's stuff like that that gets you on the right track and gets you profitable, right You know, I know you you have some some really really really good charts, right? So how did you do that and how can you repeat that? Right? How do you get into situations like that for some people that I know It's I've lost the person has lost six times in a row and on the seventh time. They're like, you know what?  This is finally set up. I'm just holding it and they get that end of bigger trade So how can you eliminate those five to six prior trades in order to get that seventh big one and just Make that seventh big one your first trade That type of stuff has what is what has allowed me, you know, I You know, it's funny. I was thinking about this podcast trading earlier. I talked to james before And there was a stock that was setting up for me. I don't know the name Um, and I you know, it rushed to a level and it got there too quick for me So I said, you know what? This is a bit too quick for me This stock needs to take a break before it can go higher So kind of faded off a little bit and then I kind of grinded higher and it got to the level the way that I wanted it to So I started to take some I'm like, you know what?  Like this is what I want to see This is I told myself what I wanted to see I waited for it and then I got paid for And that is my type of trading. That's what I love I want to see this do this at this support line and then I'll be able to take the trade I self talk before I take things all the time or else as a long trader. I don't think you'll make it I want to see this Happen at this level or I'm out, right? I want to see it break through this 25 level right away and get to 25 20 25 30 Right. That's what I want to see. But if we struggle at 25 10 2508, I'm taking the 25 off, right? Didn't break that line with authority. So I'm talking to myself about my selling I'm talking to myself about my buying and I'm saying what I want to see before I enter a trade and that is what In my opinion, it's just that self-talk that self-awareness that has really helped me a lot Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that's awesome. And I think I mean we are coming up on our kind of our Oops, that's from our phone.  Like you know what it takes like where you know Harry and I like kind of gave you like some small blueprints and stuff and you know It is up to you to follow but like it just it hit this point for me.   And like I love giving the tough love because that's that's what I got from like Alex and bow to and like you know, it's just Start kind of finding reasons to follow the process Other than reasons to get mad at yourself, you know, it's just I think once you kind of eliminate those personal stuff and I know you can man I know you can do it.  He's having a nice level head. It's just From now on today on it's time to eliminate that emotional and just like you harry said man That's seven trade.  So, you know, maybe I would love to actually I think we should have joe back on Even like a month or two and let's see kind of how you're progressing from there And yeah, I think that'd be really cool ain't cool. Yeah, I appreciate it guys, you know, I mean like uh You know, M.  I see community was there for me, especially you guys, you know, and uh James I'll never forget, you know, you you send in me and you know A couple articles just to read and that helped me out so much but Oh, yeah, but but beyond beyond all that, you know, it's like um, you know, I I feel like I've you know, like I'm at that point where you know, I started, you know back back in I think it was 2009 19 When it when I joined April and then the December before that had 8 000 in my account, you know, and I grew I've grown it. I've grown it to 20 24. I'm at 24 right now And I know that's not a significant You know pace but more than most people can do whatever It's a small pace and it's can always, you know going forward, but I think it obviously exactly what you're saying, you know, I I have to You know, I really have to treat this like a job, you know, I have to um You know, I have to I have to You know execute correctly, you know and follow the process to a T You know to get to get there. So I would look forward to come back on, you know, oh, yeah, man.  You know, so my challenge for you DME 10 trades dates entries exits You know DME your biggest 10 20 trades and I'll go through them and I'll help you Kind of make a process and you know, I'll tell you what I kind of see and you know We can help kind of develop a process and kind of and when we have you on in a month or two You know, let let us know how it's been going And that's something that I'll commit to I'll say that I'll kind of help you develop that and we can kind of go over and then You know, we can talk about it and talk it over, you know, how's that sound? Hell yeah, that's that sounds awesome Where to love it. So that's awesome, man. I mean, that's all right. So we have a plan Jesus, we have a nice plan for you, Joe. We're gonna get you there. Thanks, brother Hell yeah, man So thank you again for coming on and I honestly appreciate you being personal and letting people kind of into your journey So thank you again, and we'll look forward to having you on a second time Yeah, thank you guys too, man