Hi. I'm Chris. I'm an engineer at Crowdstrike. I'm obliged to say we're hiring. If anyone's interested in looking to work on Ember apps, we've got lots. The majority of us are based in London, and we're purely Ember on the front end. If you are here, you're probably interested in that. My talk is called, Want to be content rich? I needed a headline that sounded more interesting than text editing. Sometimes text editing experiences are just not as good as they should be. When I drop an image into a text area at a particular point, this is not the result I was hoping for. There's no visual feedback. It's just put the path that has been generated to that image at the bottom of the text. So it's not even where I want it in the document. There's many types of editors you can use in your apps, either open sourced or purchased, but none of them seem to do everything well enough to become the single best choice. One format that many editors use that we're all familiar with is Markdown. Markdown is often used as a speedy way to add content creation into an app. It has widespread adoption and therefore tooling across many platforms, but in anything but the simplest use case, it quickly becomes awkward to use. Because it becomes awkward rather than impossible to do things, users will often just develop workarounds that allow them to manage, like using an external editor that offers syntax validation and a preview. They might choose to use this to make their changes in the editor before pasting them back into your app. You won't get any bug reports because nothing is broken, but it's very likely your users are not having a good time using your product. Do you have to use Markdown? No. Use mobile doc instead. So this is what I used to think of when I first heard the term mobile doc. You have to remember in the States they call these things cell phones, not mobiles, and the authors are mobile doc or American, so that kind of makes sense. But I put this image in your mind now. Mobile doc actually refers to a portable document format. Using it will allow you to create an editing experience that compares to the best editors you've used on the web. And it's not as complicated as you might think to build a rich experience for your users. I'm going to show you how right now. This is an app I built just to demo to you what mobile doc is and how it works. The boarded area at the top is the editor, and the area at the bottom shows the mobile doc created by the editor, rendered in a number of different ways. Currently it's showing the JSON structure that is produced when you save a document in the editor. This is mobile doc. The name actually refers to a specification for a JSON structure. There are a number of other parts to the ecosystem that build upon this specified format to help you produce your user experience. So zooming in on what was in the bottom of the screen there, this is what a blank mobile doc looks like in terms of structure. You can see it's an object that contains keys for atoms, cards, markups and sections. The markups array lists any formatting used and the sections array contains the actual structure of the doc. We'll come back to atoms and cards later. Let's look at how the structure changes as text is typed into the editor. We start with one empty paragraph in the sections array. As the text is entered, you can see the mobile doc structure update. Now let's add some basic formatting. The user has used the shortcut command B to toggle a strong text before typing. You can see the structure update at the bottom of the screen. Let's look at those changes in a better formatted example and break down what's happened. The strong markup has been added to the markup array. In the sections array, the section of type one indicates this section is a markup. The first zero in the indented array is the markotype zero indicates text. The array with a single element of zero indicates the markup used. Position zero in the markup array is strong. The one that follows that indicates the markup is closed and finally the text that's contained within the section. Let's make that slightly more complicated and see what the structure looks like the one word in the sentence is strong. If we format that a bit better we can see that there are now three markers in the section. The first is text denoted by the first zero using no markups denoted by the empty array and is open indicated by the next zero. The next marker is different in that it refers to the strong markup. There's a zero in the array versus being empty on the previous marker and it's closed. The third marker is structured the same as the first but with different text. For reference, here's a list of all the markups that are supported. That's a pretty basic overview of the structure. Let's leave it there and look at the bigger picture. There are three things that build on this mobile doc standard. Parsers, renderers and editors. Parsers allow you to manipulate the content when it's being pasted into your editor before it's saved into the mobile doc. Renderers allow you to present a mobile doc in different ways. Editors allow you to build the user experience for the content creators. Let's talk about editors first. The one you've seen in the demo is Ember mobile doc editor. It uses a library called mobile doc kit. This is the framework agnostic library for building mobile doc editors. Ember mobile doc editor provides an abstraction using Ember components over mobile doc kit. So if you're used to using Ember, this makes the process of building out additional functionality in the editor very familiar. You don't have to use this editor though. That's the point of mobile doc kit being a separate vanilla JS library. In this demo, I've chosen to use Ember mobile doc editor. Let's step through the code that's behind the example you've seen. Here's the template for the editor. That's everything on the top half of the screen of the demo app. As you see, we pass in a mobile doc for the editor to initialise itself with and an action to be called when the document is changed. In the block of the component, we pass the buttons we want to appear in the toolbar. Mobile doc editor and mobile doc section button are all provided by the Ember mobile doc add-on. And the component JS that backs that template looks like this. It's empty. I'm just using a convention of listing the attributes that can be passed into the component at the top of the file and setting the component to be tagless. Here's the output component. That's everything in the bottom half of the screen on the demo app. There are three output formats to choose from. So far you've seen the one on line nine. The one on line 14 is Ember mobile doc DOM renderer. That will give you a faithful reproduction of what you see in the editor, but without the ability for any edits. The last one is on line 20, but we can see better what's going on with that by looking at the component JS. Here you can see on line 21, the computed property responsible for the mobile doc in text. On line 23, a new renderer is created. You can see that it is imported from mobile doc text renderer. Let's see what these do in the demo app. Returning to our strong text example, we can see that when switching to the rendered output, it does faithfully reproduce what's seen in the editor. Then switching to the text output shows that the full text without any formatting. This is a good illustration of renderers. The text renderer is simply ignoring anything stored in the mobile doc text that does not apply to it. So that's pretty cool. We already have a basic what you see is what you get edited that stores content in a format that is concise and can be used selectively to render different results. It's not rich yet, though. Mobile doc provides two mechanisms to achieve this. Atoms described here and cards described here. Now, because we're using ember mobile doc editor, we can use the helpers it provides to create atoms and cards as components. Let's build a card component now. This is going to be quite a lot of code. The first thing we're going to do is create a button that the user can click to add the card into the editor. This is what the component.js for the button looks like. It contains a single action that's called when the button is pressed. On line 12, we tell the editor to create the card in edit mode. The first argument shown on line 13 is the name of the card. The next argument is the payload to be set on creation. Cards have an edit mode that shows a different view to the user than the rendered version. It's not used when the card is rendered by the DOM renderer. The template for the button looks like this. Not much to say about it, it's just a button. The block is used to allow you to pass optional text. This is the template for the code block editor. Now, as you may have noticed when we created the button, this card is going to be for adding code blocks to our doc. What we want this card to be is a full what you see is what you can get experience, just like the main editor, except styled like a code block. How are we going to do that? Let's put another mobile doc editor in the card editor. You can see that on lines 2 to 6. We're going to add a save and cancel button to allow the user to either reverse the action of pressing the code button or save their changes. You can see the buttons on lines 8 and 9. The component.js for that looks like this. It's a bit small to be able to read, so let's split it up. In the first part, you can see we're getting a lot of attributes passed into the component. It's worth noting that these are passed to the component from the editor because it's the editor that actually calls this component. It's the actions that we're really interested in, though. Interested in, though. The save card action either takes the payload that's been edited by the user or, if that's undefined, the payload that was present when the editor was invoked. If the card has just been created, that would be the payload passed when the card was created by the button press. If the card has been saved previously, the payload will be the one stored last time the document was saved. Finally, the save card action we were passed by the editor is called. The cancel card action takes the payload to see if this card has already been saved previously by fetching the created by button key from the payload. Remember we passed this payload in when the button was created, when the button to create the card was pressed, sorry. If it exists, we remove the card when the cancel is pressed. If it does not exist, we cancel the card instead. That just undoes our edit session. We also need to create a component that will be used to render this content when it's not editable. It will be used by the DOM renderer but also by the editor when the card is not being edited. This is what the template looks like. Line 1 calls the edit card actions passed into this component by the editor. And on line 3 you can see the mobile doc DOM renderer again. This is to render the content saved in the payload of the card because that is the mobile doc nested in the payload. The component for it looks like this. I've split it in two again so it's a bit bigger. As you can see, we've passed a load of attributes from the editor again. Amongst them is the edit card action we're calling from the template. The only other thing in that file is a check on initialisation to see if there's a content saved in the payload. If not, we set the content to be a blank mobile doc. We need to register the card with the editor. We do that in the component.js for the editor. To be clear, this is not the card editor but the editor itself, so the bit that's responsible for the top half of the screen. Now it looks like this. We've added a compuser property on line 8 that returns an array of cards. We use the create component card helper provided by EmberMobileDoc editor to do this. As you can see, on line 10. The template has then changed to pass that card's array into the EmberMobileDoc editor component. You can see that change on line 3. The output component.js, the bit that's responsible for the bottom half of the screen and the demo app needs to be changed to create a card names array, lines 13 and 17 of that change. Then in the template, we pass that array into the DOM renderer on line 8. That was a lot of code. Let's see how that looks in the app and what the changes have done. You can see the editing versus rendering components being used here. That's the editor. They fill in some text. That's going to flip to the rendered component. You can see the raw content of the doc updating from the payload. That's set when the button is pressed to save the payload. Beyond that, it's hard to see how it's changed from that view. Let's break down the changes to the structure of the doc. It's pretty small, but hopefully you can see this. The shape is the bit that's interesting, so maybe just squint a bit. Line 33, which is right at the bottom, shows where the card was created relative to the text. Just below it. You can see the section type is 10 indicating a card. The only valid section types are 1 for a markup, which basically means text. 1 for a list or 10 for a card. The 0 next to it means to use position 0 in the card array, our code block card. That's on line 5. The name of the card is specified on line 6. The payload starts at line 7. As you can see on our code block content key, on line 8. Line 9 is the start of the mobile doc we saved from the editor in the card. That's the mobile doc inside the mobile doc. Now let's see what's happening with the two renderers I mentioned earlier. The render tab, we can see the DOM renderer being used. You can see it's replicating what's shown in the editor. When I click on the text renderer, you can see that the text content from above the code block is shown, but nothing from within the code block is. That's because the text renderer doesn't know how to handle the code block card's payload. We can fix that, though. In the same way we passed the cards to be used into the editor and the DOM renderer, we also have to pass them into the text renderer. Instead of a component path, we'll need to reference a file with the following structure. The name of the card has to match the name contained in the mobile doc, which you can see on line 4. The type has to be text for the text renderer to use this. Line 6 contains the render function, which is what the text renderer will call any time it encounters a card of this type. The treatment we give here is simple. We extract the code block content key from the payload. Because this is our nested mobile doc content, we then create a new instance of the mobile doc text renderer to render the text contained within it and then pass that on as the result of the render function. We then need to register this file with the text renderer we're using in the output area of the demo app. I've cut out the unchanged parts of this file to try and make the example a bit more concise. You can see the file we just created being imported on line 2. The array of text renderers being built on line 7, and then it's passed into the renderer on line 18 and the results are. Now with the text from the code block is rendering along with the other text. So now we've successfully told the text renderer about our custom payload. But another problem that comes with creating a custom payload is being able to populate it when the appropriate content is pasted into the editor. That's where parsers come in. Mobile doc kit already comes with parsers for the types supported by mobile doc. So pasting content from HTML works fine for those types. But for our code block card, if we copy the tombster and paste it in, not so much. But we can fix that by writing our own parser. Here's the parser file. Line 2 is basically saying if this is not a root node and a pretag do nothing, because that's all we're interested in, otherwise grab the text content of the node that has been pasted, that's on line 7. The content is passed to the function on line 17. It inserts the text into a mobile doc with a single paragraph. We then build a new card section on line 10 for our code block card, passing the payload created by the function under the code block content key. Remember we're working with mobile doc inside a mobile doc here. We then add the section to the doc on line 12 and then mark the node as finished. And we have to modify the editor component, JS, to build an options object. That's on line 16. We then add the names and array of parser plugins, the one we created on line 19. And you can see where we import it on line 2. And then pass that options object to the editor in the template line 4. And if we try the same thing again, now we get one perfectly proportioned Tomster. Also replicated perfectly in the DOM renderer and the text renderer. So now we've made our own custom content that's editable via a custom component. We've added support for it to be rendered from renderers. And we can even manipulate the content pasted into the editor. In the format we specified, part of the card as part of the card, the one thing we've let to talk about is atoms. The way mobile doc does custom inline content. Let's create an atom that allows logos to be used instead of text. Here's the component JS we're going to create for the atom. This is just for transparency in this case. We don't actually need to do anything here. But as you can see, we have access to a load of attributes passed by the editor. The template is also simple. An image tag that uses what's stored in the image URL key of the payload as the value of the source attribute. Atoms don't have an editor interface by default, so we don't need to make a component for that. We could create a button on the toolbar that would let users add logo atoms, but let's try a different approach. Let's create an action that we'll call when the editor is created. This allows us to use the onText input hook on the editor shown on line 8, and then specify some text to match shown on line 9. Then what to do when that happens on line 10. We're going to replace the match text with a logo, so the first thing we do is delete the correct spaces back from the cursor position. This is done on lines 11, 12 and 14. Then we add the atom into the editor surrounded by spaces on line 16 to 24. Line 18 specifies the atom name. Line 19, the text to use in place of the atom when required. Line 20 to 22 are the payload for the atom. It contains the image URL for the logo that should be used to replace this text. Then, much the same way as we built the cards array, we need to build the atoms array. This time we use the create component atom helper, again provided by EmberMovildoc editor. Then we need to pass the atoms array into the editor, shown here on line 3, and make our action get called when the editor has been created. That's on line 5. We need to create an atom names array, just like we did for the cards array earlier, and then pass that collection into the DOM renderer on line 7. Then we get this. It shows correctly in all the renderers, but there's one last thing I want to mention, and that's card options. Perhaps badly names, as they're also accessible for our atoms, they can be very useful as they're provided at render time, and can be used to make decisions about how to use what's stored in the mobile lock. Let's change our atom to be able to render text, emojis, or images. This might not be the most realistic example, but it should illustrate the power of options. In the atom component, we'll decide what to render based on the options passed to us. Line 14 and 15. Then we need to build a card options object shown on line 10. I'm going to set the key of logo atoms options to the value of logo atoms options, which is coming off an input we're going to put on the template. That's shown on line 4, and it'll appear just above the output area in the demo application. I also need to pass the card options to the DOM renderer. You can see that on line 12. Finally, we need to set the emoji to use when our text is matched. You can see that on line 22. Both an image URL and an emoji are now written into the doc as part of the payload, but the options are passed at render time. That logic in the component is then applied. Let's look at that working. We can see an emoji there in the raw mobile doc at the bottom of the screen. If I change the string that's bound to the logo atom options, you can see the rendered output change. I can choose either an image, text or emoji, or without editing the actual document. This example is very simple, but hopefully makes clear that these two data objects can be used separately or together. One baked into the doc, the other only required at the point of render. A couple of other examples could be alternative or additional content for different user roles. The user roles will be passed in as the options or charts that are passed fresh data right before they're rendered. You could leverage this a lot. Hopefully what I've demoed has shown that mobile doc is easy to get started with and really does allow you to build whatever you want for your users. All the code I've shown here is on GitHub, so give it a look when you want to get started with mobile doc. Thanks for your time. Any questions? Can you create tables? Does it support tables, I guess, to start with? No is the answer. It doesn't do tables, and it doesn't do nested lists, but you can quite easily polyfill that by building a card, basically. Then you have the option to choose how to render that as well. Yes, it does, but not out of the box. Once you get going with this, it's pretty easy to do that stuff. The application where you're using it for a crowd strike, we've polyfilled both nested lists. We've filled that gap with cards for both nested lists and tables. The renderers are more like the format you choose, so I guess if I was going to try and do another renderer, you could maybe do a PDF renderer or something like that, that would take the content of the doc and then try and render that as a PDF. But then you only need to talk in terms of... If you're just talking about web, then you'd just be talking about the card that is rendered in the editor or the DOM renderer, and then you have control over what that is. It's just a component like anything else in Ember, so it can literally be anything. You can put a whole app in there if you wanted to. There's no limit really to what you do with it. But I guess the good thing is there's that separation between configuration that can be passed in with options and then what's actually persisted. I guess like in much the same way you're going to write stuff that can be called to a database for your app, you can write that into the doc, but it means you don't have to store anything that's not required. There's no styling in there, so you're not bound that way, so if you want to do a refresh of all your content, there's no styling stored in there, so you can just completely change everything, how it's rendered, and even if there's stuff in the doc that you're not leveraging already, you can change that as well. Thank you very much.


So here we have a very special new 96 boards. This is a big one. So hi, so who are you? I'm Tom from VAMOS. I'm the product manager of VAMOS. So you're Tom QB? Yes, Tom QB. Tom QB, right? So you make development boards for a long time? Yes, since 2012 and you so you do QB board very famous, right? Yes, QB board and what else after this and Reksa and the Reksa was sold to another big manufacturer in Shenzhen. So we started VAMOS last year. So this is the There's two new boards right here. You have a small one and a big one with Rockchip 3399. Yeah, so This one available now? That one is in production now and there will be available in global distributors like C-Studio maybe in next month. And the name is Rock 960. So Rock 960 is a 96 boards CE standard.  Yeah, it's a big one. They call it a Rock 960 EE version, but it also has a name called the FICUS, F-I-C-U-S. FICUS. Yeah, and so let's let's if you can hold it right here, it can show around. Let's check all the ports that you have. This is following the 96 boards enterprise edition format, right? Yeah, enterprise edition. So that's a bigger like three times bigger than this. Yes. So what ports do you have here? We have two USB 3 and also one USB 3 internal and management port 100 MB and the two USB 2 and here we have rest three USB 2 internal and the one type C port and the Wi-Fi and the Bluetooth. And here we have DC jack and also 80 charge 12 jack and HDMI and Micro SD card and GPE GEB and dual SATA and the SATA power. Yeah, here we have this SPD. This dual SATA. So what you connect hard drive? Yeah, we can connect SSD or hard drive. Yes Here we have PCIe Yeah, it's a standard 16 slot PCIe, but actually the the chip has only four lengths. So by the way, we implement the 16 slot for compatibility. How do you do that? It just the rest of the signal are empty. So it comes it can you can actually insert any any PCIe card from one slot to two 16 slot. What is this PCIe card here? Actually, it's a PCIe It's a PCIe to M.2 convert card So you can connect M.2 from the PCIe So more storage fast storage very fast very fast. This is 256 GB Yes, yes, so can you also connect NVIDIA GPU? What can you do? In theory it can but actually cannot because there is there is some limitation for the rock chip 3399 The address the bar the base base base address Reading is is only 32 megabytes. So actually you can only have the GPU of memory of Limit to 32 megabyte 32 megabyte of what memory? What is it called the GPU memory GPU memory? Because of external GPU. Yeah, yeah, just limitations. So basically the GPU is useless. So Just to have an idea. So what other ideas can be possible with PCIe? For example, what's a really good one? For example, if you want to connect external maybe hardware accelerates FPGA or external a MPU or external maybe PCIe to SATA or PCIe to multiple EarthNet. So it's so fast the networking Fast storage Faster data processing like FPGA and what other like a DSP DSP. Yeah, you can add some DSP. Yes, a FPGA and you add some other Some more arm. Hey more arm is possible. Okay Would be like you can like this one and maybe not like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah They can actually communicate well, you know, not the PCIe to PCIe slot to say, yeah Whoa, so they can so what could actually they can yeah to do and how would that work? Hey They just communicate just the data they can exchange data. So this is a very big Potential right? What's the price? Can you hold? Hey, we are planning to you know, start from 99 dollar What 99 dollar? 99 dollar for this for this yes, and how much for this one also 99 But yeah with different configurations. So so we are a plan We are actually Cost making making this one the the cost are lower. So with some Change so so we let's come back to this one second. So yeah, what do you mean 99 99 dollars? So for 99 you can for for this one. Yeah, we start from one one GB rent one GB only. Yeah, one GB How about 2G 4 GB 8 GB for Sorry for 2 GB maybe 129 so 4 GB 149 and 8 GB 8 GB 8 GB actually not possible due to the RK surgery 99 limitation. You sure? Yeah, it will not happen. No happen. Yes. Okay 4 GB maximum then. Yeah one four nine one four nine It's very good price. Yeah, actually. Yeah, so how many do you will sell do you think? We don't have any estimation now, what's under here. Oh here we have It's a mini PCIe for the 4g 4g module and here we have Another m.2 connector actually is for the the MCU for the for the main G meant port So this MCU can can you know have access to the 4g? So basically the MCU is a separate OS and From from the social 99 so basically the The MCU can manage the social 99 to control the power of the social 99 to reset to power on off and to recovery the social 99 system MCU. Yes. The MCU. What is What what MCU which one? Oh actually, it's a WT node so it's from it's a router router chip a router chip. Yes with with the with the Earth net and with the 4g 4g connection Hmm, so the modem control the CPU Actually, the the the the router chip have access to the modern and the router chip can control the social 99 Power levels. Yeah power levels and performance levels or something performance note for the power and for the recovery for the console Nice. So this is a very cool chip set the 3 3 9 9 right is a 6 6 core Yeah, and it's it's right in my Chromebook. Yeah, okay, so so It's great for Chromebook So can you run? So it's it can do Chrome OS Actually, yes, they've been open to Chromers or a Verion of Chromers called the flint OS. We have actually partnered with them Who's who's doing this a change space the company they make a Chromium always space the Distributions called flint OS. Nice. Is it good? Yeah, it's the same as like Chromebook Oh, yeah, same basically the same but with without Google without Google or with Google only with by doom No, no bad. No with access access for Chinese government. Ah, yeah, I'm joking a little bit No Chinese government, right? So this for sale. How soon a country is still at the engineering sample stage we have basically several samples and Actually the whole board actually working It's working samples working samples mass production. Yeah We need some work for for the MCU here to you know to to to to control to to switching and but it can work Without without the MCU stand alone also, okay Also, okay. Yeah And the RAM is right here. Yeah, right here How much RAM is on this one? It currently this one should be too to take a back to GB. Yeah, all right Cool, that's awesome. Let's try the small one here. So what are you showing here? Here a we are showing actually The the actually we are showing that the AI acceleration of of the GPU here open ceo with open ceo So so this board is available now this board Available next month next month. Yeah, maybe we are start to taking all that soon Many people are waiting for this, right? Ah, yes, how many people waiting? Maybe hundreds hundreds send you email and say, where is it? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We are actually under pressure it takes longer than Then expected because we are actually working with open a lab to you know to to run the AI stack on this on this board and it will find the the actually it consume a lot of CPU and GPU power and the the boy is very very hot and also we are fixing some Low-level the performance related issues. So so it takes longer to to to Product so and the open AI lab is doing the kind like open source AI framework Like age a edge AI or for the future of AI. What is that the open AI lab? Describe it open lab actually is founded by arm and all winner and the horizon robotics. They focus on the arm AI related Low-level framework or or libraries and that they they provide optimized code for AI execution And so this is very compact a nice board. What people will do with it. Do you think a? currently are many related the camera related projects such as a image and a CC and or Face recognition or security related. So there's a camera. Look at me right now. Yes, and what they what they can do It can detect your face and if you have your hand here You can remember you No, I'm back. Yeah, it says my name charbacks. No, no, I have an ID for you now. All right So I'm number seven. Yeah today Who looked at this and this software? What is that? It kept it actually running on top of the AI lab so So open AI lab is a Linux based Yes, they provide actually libraries and and Software stacks not a distribution country is running Ubuntu So it can run on any distribution. Yes. Yes, actually any distribution Android enjoy. Yeah, also possible and Debian Ubuntu Which is your favorite Linux? Oh It's hard to say Do you use Linux on your computer? Yes, of course, which one right now country Ubuntu for development Ubuntu. Yeah. Yeah cool, so How many people in your company currently? Yeah, too, too, too, too. Yeah, just too. That's you Too. Yeah. So so hi. So you all said the company. Yes. I'm lucky from Vamers. All right. So what is your job? What is your job? What do you what do you how do you share the work? Makti is me and there's a product manager. It's time QB. Yes, you know time QB is back It's very cool. So yeah, thanks. Thanks for being a video. That's cool. So So this is cool. 99 99 Yeah, different where's your office a web is the engine bond and All right, so rock chip partnership Make it available that this this one is connected with all these running right now with the hub Type C getting the power through All these cables you have right here cool How about windows? Windows support. No, no, no windows. No windows How about sailfish OS? No, no, no, Mr. Ubuntu Debian something. Yeah, maybe Recently web boys is open in bed the best. So maybe it's possible Is it possible that these Debian Ubuntu and these kind of OS can be GPU accelerated? Yes, currently it's uh, you know, this This currently is GPU accelerated with open sail. So How do you how do you get that is a multi GPU, right? Yes, my GPU and Actually arm provided the the the GPU libraries the the open sail libraries And the driver driver lever is actually open source. So open source but with hardware accelerated GPU and Not not fully open source only driver open source But the open sail and open geo library user user space libraries are closed. Is it live hybrid? No, no, no, no native native native native native native Mali live Mali live Mali. Yeah live Mali live Mali available for Debian Ubuntu Yeah, and they're all very good very smooth No only for for specified applications Not not for desktop not for average desktop. Is it possible you can use live hardware to optimize desktop? Hey, I guess so But I'm not sure about the stance of live hybrid How about helium? Maybe something else. There's something I heard about so and all the All the ports here and everything is everything is optimized in the unique support. Ah, yes For this one is everything everything. Yeah. All right cool, and that's really awesome. What's next after this? Hey of this Will the secret? Yeah, actually secretary secret. Yeah, we are actually looking at some, you know storage Related. Yeah things with some, you know, blockchain technology Maybe I see after or something or stores storage


is of the Dr. Martin Luther King Junior Library, which is a unique collaboration between San Jose State University and the city of San Jose. The SJSU King Library's combined academic and public services make it the nation's largest joint library. Today's workshop is part of our pathway series introducing the different MLIS career pathways where you will get an insight perspective from instructors who have worked in specific fields. Today we'll be talking about skill sets that prepare students for work in academic libraries. So let's get started with the agenda. Today's agenda consists of an overview of the academic librarianship pathway, which courses students can consider, how students use a skill set, and then we'll meet faculty with expertise in this area who have made themselves available to answer your questions. What is academic librarianship? Academic libraries are found in institutions of higher education, in community colleges, private colleges, major universities, or specialized research institutes. Academic libraries employ approximately 26,600 professional librarians. Although academic library positions vary depending on the mission and type of institution they serve, some common responsibilities include managing projects, departments, and community relationships, along with providing instruction, reference, curriculum, research, classroom support, and keeping up with trends and technical advancements in library and information science. Here's a list of core theory and knowledge that students pursuing the pathway would benefit from in building a career in this area, such as uses of technology and issues facing libraries in higher education. These can be found on the iSchool MLIS Career Pathway for Academic Librarianship. Additionally, new roles for The Road Ahead, just published by ACRL, is available on our pathway page on the iSchool website. This is a collection of essays from leaders in the academic librarianship field with topics ranging from intra-institutional collaboration to librarians' roles in student learning incomes, or outcomes, I'm sorry, to evolving professional identities of academic librarians. Foundational and recommended courses such as Info230, issues in academic libraries, with similar topics such as digital libraries, data services, and design thinking, can be found on our MLIS website under this pathway. Internships are not required, but a great way to gain professional experience. Now, I'll turn it over to Sheila. Thank you so much, Taryn. So, for tips about jobs in academic libraries, they can be found listed in our iSchool MLIS Skills at Work Report on the following pages listed on the slide that you see. For each category in academic librarianship, such as collections, cataloging, reference, outreach, and instruction, this 2021 report is available for download from our website. I'll give you a few highlights today, but you should really read through and then return to the new report each year that you're in the program for updated trends as you progress throughout the program. The report highlights why you should think about a career in academic libraries, and the authors of the report found that 48% of the 400 posted positions were in academic libraries, while 87% of the jobs that were analyzed requested an MLIS. Other, sorry about that, while 87% of the jobs that were analyzed requested an MLIS, other advanced degrees in addition to the MLIS may be preferred for some positions, especially in academic libraries. So, if you have another master's in say a humanities or social sciences field, this could be a plus in the job search. In 2021, this report concluded that 90% of job postings looked for a candidate with experience, and 11% increased since the report was published in 2020. So this demonstrates that internships and even volunteer positions for those without experience could be a vital part of a candidate's overall strategy to present a competitive package to employers. Now, in the report, you will see that jobs were analyzed both by job function and by library type. So it's a great idea to map the job skills that you see to iSchool courses that you've taken or internship or volunteer experiences that you've completed to see where there might be gaps between your own skills and then the targeted positions that you're looking at. So you can use these gaps to identify which electives you may want to take in your remaining credits. You can use the worksheets in the student success planner to document this. And on the slide, you'll see I've kind of mapped specific sample job duties that I've found to perhaps topics that could be found on the academic librarianship pathway. So I suggest everyone interested in this pathway should take a deep dive into the career environment section of our iSchool career development resource for very detailed information about the types of academic libraries and the various roles that you could fill including salaries and promotion requirements and then tips to help you land your dream job. Often tenure track librarians are expected to do research and publish results in peer review journals as part of the promotion to tenure process. Now this may not be true for academic staff librarians but as you apply for work in different academic settings it's important to determine how the institution classifies librarian employment and status because that will help you know what you need to do to advance your career in that setting. So we talked about this strategy in our last pathway workshop but even early in your program here with us you could create job alerts on Indeed or other job search aggregators with keywords so that you can keep your eye on the types of positions in academic settings that are available in your area. Now here is an example from higher ed jobs and you can also try this with some of the other well-known job sites like Carl if you're looking within California or even SJSU handshake. Now all the job announcements that come into the iSchool are directed over to SJSU handshake which is the database that all iSchool students and alumni have access to for job search and there are many other recommended job sites in our career development resource that you can take advantage of. And I'll give you another couple of examples of two very different positions within academic libraries that I found on Carl's database. And I also found technician positions at several institutions such as Stanford and a local community college district which could be helpful if a student has no academic library experience and is looking to get a foot in the door. So you'll see here that one of the positions is very unique. It's Food and Wine Archivist at UC Davis and then another position as an academic library technologist for Occidental College which is a private college in the Los Angeles area. So some more suggestions on how you can engage with our various iSchool resources to help power up your profile. Do not forget to tap into all of these supports that iSchool has put in place for you and a good way to organize your efforts is to make use of the career planning checklist inside your student success planner. And now I'm so happy to be able to let you know we have advisors here and you will have a chance to have an opportunity to hear tips and recommendations from experts in this pathway. The iSchool Associate Director, Dr. Main whose career background is in academic librarianship will first introduce and start us off our panelists and then they're gonna introduce themselves and let you know about their background in the pathway, the skills and topics that they feel are timely and current and a little bit about courses that they teach. And then later we will be opening it up for a Q&A with our panelists. So over to you, Dr. Main. Okay, thank you very much Sheila and hello to everybody. And I'm really pleased that so many of you have joined us today. As Sheila said, before I went full time into teaching I worked extensively in a very large academic library and I have continued to consult in specialized areas in a few academic libraries, primarily in Europe because you can see if you look on the screen at the courses that I kind of focus on they're primarily in what we call special collections. The term is actually rather unique to the United States and I think possibly Canada. And so it's dealing with early books and libraries, medieval manuscripts and early printed books in Cunabula, the first 50 years of printing. But I think the important thing to understand is that these areas are very specialized but they do tend to be mostly within academic libraries though also in museums and in some very large historical associations. Now how I got there, I think is supportive of a lot of what Sheila was just talking about and the fact that there are many there's no one kind of academic library and no one kind of academic librarian any more than there is one public library or one public librarian. You need to put together I think a variety of skillsets and possibly advance into different areas throughout the library as your career moves forward. So for example, I started out working in what we call reference now. And then I did quite a lot of collection management work primarily with the history department because my background was in medieval history. And then I moved into technology implementation projects and ultimately landed into the area in the library that dealt with manuscripts and preservation of manuscripts and early printed books. But in fact, they actually involved a lot of technology because even when I was working there and I'm still consulting in many of them and increasingly nowadays the big focus is access. So the library is not just the building there it's to be giving access to a very wide number of people and often to all of its collections. So just to take one example it would be lovely though a little complicated from the West Coast to go to Reykjavík in Iceland and take a look at the Icelandic sagas. But even if you did that, they would be in glass cases and you probably couldn't see very much. But in fact, there's no need to do that anymore because of technology and tremendous tools that have been developed. We can look at tremendous collections in academic libraries and museums and other places and we can see them in tremendous detail and because of digitization and the way that they're curated and various tools with various standards that have been developed. You can even use tools like the international image interoperability framework. We're always fond of jargon in our field where you can actually use this tool to look at the same manuscript that has been collected in two different collections. So you might be able to bring up a copy of the Gutenberg Bible perhaps from a library in Germany and then bring up another copy from a library in Amsterdam and compare the two. And this is very, very important for scholars. So I think you need to have a variety of skill sets if you're going to move into academic libraries. So the basic stuff, obviously you'll be doing quite a lot of teaching so information literacy is very important, good communication skills very important. But nowadays, I think too, when you go to the interview, I think you need to be looking different from other people. And so if it was me, I would be thinking about a class in digital humanities. I would have a class in digital preservation and curation. Perhaps think about OER, the open education resources. I would think about things like data services in libraries, things like information visualization, basically how to collect data to make evidence-based kinds of decisions. But in addition to that, I would recommend being the person at the interview that looked to the future and even talked about maybe your interest in going into special collections and how all very current technologies making a huge difference. And I'm thinking in terms of artificial intelligence and how machine learning is enabling us to look into very early documents and helping us decipher handwriting. So I might pick up a class in artificial intelligence. I might discuss how virtual and augmented reality would let you create an example of perhaps an early printing workshop so that when you're bringing freshmen around the library or working with freshmen who need to understand about these things, taking a history course, then you can develop and show very good tools and good projects. And I think it offers a tremendously exciting career in there. So Sheila, I know that another area that's very important is leadership and that kind of skill set. And I think that's our next speaker, right? Yes, let's transition now. Our next guest panelist is Dr. Hicks. And would you like to share your tips and hints with the folks today? Hi, everyone. So I'm Dr. Deborah Hicks. I am the core coordinator for Info204, which if you haven't taken yet, you will definitely take before you leave us. It's the core required course that looks largely at leadership and management topics as well as the foundations of the profession. And I also teach one of the Info282s, one of the seminars in library management. And this one is focused on what I call community leadership. And I'm gonna focus more on that one today just because all of you will be required at some point to take 204. And in some ways, 204 is what you make of it. So if you're interested in academic libraries, you have the opportunity through your organizational analysis assignment to really take a look at what an academic library is from an organizational point of view. So you get to see how complex it is as an organization through that. And you can also take opportunities throughout the course to really dive a bit deeper into specific academic library topics. But in 282, what sort of sets this class apart from some of the other offerings that we have is not only do we look at what I would maybe call non-heroic leadership approaches, so more collaborative approaches that focus on working with communities directly as opposed to one person coming up with visions and executing those visions. Well, you also have the opportunity to work directly with libraries in the field who need work done for them. And so you get to create a real life product for a library. And so last year when we taught it for the first time, there were three academic library options that we worked with. For one group worked on a marketing plan for an information literacy program. Another group worked on a DEI toolkit for an academic library in downtown Portland, Oregon, where I live. And for those of you who aren't familiar with Portland, our downtown core has a very diverse population, a very visible, houseless population. And the library and the university that is downtown was trying very hard to ensure that not only were the students and faculty supported through this DEI toolkit, but also that the relationship between the community and the university in the library was supported through it as well. And then we also had a group working on a first year student experience project through another library. And so these were all real life projects for academic libraries where you get to put your leadership skills, these like collaborative leadership skills that we read and we think and we talk about throughout the course into practice through these real life, immediately useful projects that not only can you put on a CV and talk about in a job interview where you talk about meeting the actual needs of first year students, for example, but you can actually share that with them as well. And so it's really hands on and gives you that opportunity to add that line to the CV while also diving a little deeper into some leadership theories as well. One of the things that I didn't mention off the bat was that I also worked as an academic librarian before. I got my PhD. I worked at the University of Alberta in Canada as the philosophy liaison. Now, one of the things that when Linda was talking, Dr. Main was talking that she mentioned was that she ended up doing collections work in history because that's where she had background. Well, I ended up doing collections work in philosophy which wasn't my background, which is I think the more common way of going about collections work where a lot of us, because we tend to come in with humanities and social science backgrounds, we end up collecting in fields that are not our own. So like Linda, I have a couple of history degrees and I would have been the ideal candidate to be the history liaison. However, they already had one of those and so I had to pivot fairly quickly to go into the philosophy section. And sometimes you have to pivot even sort of a bigger pivot and go into STEM when you have a history background, for example. And so it requires a lot of flexibility and a lot of willingness to learn how other disciplines think and interact with information. So that to me is one of the big takeaways, one of the big takeaways for me as a librarian was figuring out like, oh, okay, so history and philosophy have a lot in common but they also have some differences and like learning those intricate differences was really important. The other thing that I discovered as an academic librarian was just how complex university libraries and universities in general are, they are not straightforward institutions.  And you need to learn those levels in order to get things done. And so one of the things that I did was in addition to taking management leadership classes was I kept my eyes open and I watched and I tried to figure out what the connections were and who was working with who and who was the right person to go to at the right time. And I found that to be really interesting. It was actually, it was commented upon by a colleague, she's like, oh no, you watch, when you're in a meeting, you watch people, you figure out what's going on. It's like, yeah, I do. Cause that's how you figure out the internal politics to see just watch what's happening and who's talking to who. And that was very helpful. It also sort of highlights a complexity around academic libraries that is sometimes not talked about as directly as I think it should be. And that is the complexity around the stakeholders and their needs. So if you think about who academic libraries serve, we tend to think immediately of students which are really important. And we, especially when we talk about information literacy and their needs and the collection needs around their education. But faculty are equally as important. They're just slightly more invisible users of the library generally. They don't come in, you're not seeing a faculty member come in and use the physical space of the library in the same way. And the positions at doctor or the courses that Dr. Main was talking about around digital humanities and OER resources and data services, those are really focused on faculty needs. And it's, I think they're an emerging that side of things the emerging faculty needs are becoming more and more important for academic libraries, especially as faculty are being asked to search out more grant funding for their own research and activities like that. And it is trickling down into the student level but sometimes when it comes at an organizational level the need to support information literacy and the need to support these data services they don't compete per se but they do beg questions around resource allocation. So that's just something to keep in mind around that. Now tips on preparing for a career. This is where I always stumble for it not because there isn't like right things to do but there is not one pathway. I can't say, oh yes, you need to take these courses in order to definitely get a career in academic librarianship that in some ways in addition to making sure that yes you are aware of the trends and the topics that are coming out of academic librarianship you also want to spend time getting to know your professional a little bit taking on leadership roles. So this isn't like take a course it's sort of like getting involved in your professional association and showing potential employers that you're interested in the profession and where it's going and this could be in a leadership position for this, you know, our student associations but it could also be like doing a presentation at a conference attending, you know doing a poster at ALA or CLA or something like that where you're showing off, you're you're showing off your ability and your interest in participating in the profession as a fully fledged professional and this is in some ways like an easy way to demonstrate leadership ability without having to take on a management role in some organizations. It's just saying I'm really interested in being a part of this profession and this is how I'm going to demonstrate it. Now I'm going to put on a slightly different hat right now and I'm going to tell you that at the college level we are having a student showcase coming up in February, I believe you should have already seen an email about it where you are invited to come and virtually do give a poster presentation about a project that you're working on and that's the kind of activity that align on your CV or in your resume that an academic library would be looking for which is you're sharing your insights, you're sharing your work and you're learning to talk about it professionally as well. So that was my plug for our student research forum so come join us. It'll be fun and it'll be a really low stakes way to practice your presentation skills around research plus there will be swag. So come, get a water bottle. So thank you. I think is it Allison who's next? I think so. Thank you so much for those wonderful insights. Thank you. Go ahead, Allison Johnson. Hi, thank you. It's really exciting to be here. I love talking about academic librarianship and so just to kind of give you part of my background, I started working in academic libraries as a circulation assistant which is one of those entry level academic library positions. So if you are trying to figure out how to get your foot in the door, I would definitely keep an eye out for those support staff. Sometimes those positions are called but basically you're kind of maybe working face to face with the patrons. So a circulation supervisor, I was at the front desk, I supervised student workers that were in the college and so it was really a supervisory position and but in that, doing that, you gain a ton of library experience. So I think that those entry level positions are certainly something to consider keeping an eye out for and a great way to get your foot in the door. I know not everyone's able to volunteer or do an internship if you have to work full time and in that case, you know, just the ideal thing is to find one of those positions. There are lots of them in libraries at my library. This might not be the case everywhere but we had more support staff than we did actual librarians. So those kinds of positions are really important to keep the library functioning. So after doing that for a little while, I received my MLIS degree while working full time as many of you are and then I did several things in the library. I started with public services which are those patron facing services like circulation in our library loan reference that kind of thing. So, you know, being the librarian over those areas, working face to face with students and faculty in the academic library and then eventually just kind of started supervising more departments in the library and became an assistant director for several years. So that was my library pass into academic libraries and it's really amazing the diversity of things that you can do in academic libraries and it was one of my favorite things about it was just even in one specific position that you might have, there's just such a wide variety of tasks you can do. Some days I might be really focused on teaching other days I maybe shut up in my office trying to write something. I might be managing a workflow, might be working with one of our systems trying to tweak things to get it to run more efficiently. There's just such a huge variety. Managing, like I said, student workers or library staff working team building that kind of thing. So some positions are more specific but I have found that a lot of academic library positions just offer a really fun variety of things that you get to do on a daily basis. Another thing that I think is really interesting to know is that as others have said too, there is a lot of diversity as far as one academic library differing from another academic library. I did not work at a large research institution. I worked at a private liberal arts college university and so it was a much smaller campus environment and kind of a more close knit type community and the librarians that worked there, we did several things. We had more multiple hats and most of the librarians were involved in reference work either at the reference desk online via chat or working with classes, working with students, going into classes, working with faculty, we liaison to multiple departments. So I did history, I liaison to honors college and also the business department and like Dr. Hicks said, sometimes you just get those departments assigned to you but certainly there would be many academic libraries where they might even require a second masters in the area where you are going to specialize and be a subject specialist librarian. So there is just so much diversity. I know some students say, well, I heard you had to have a second masters or dah, dah, dah and that's just not true. I actually got hired into a librarian position before I even had my MLIS degree. So let alone a second master. So there just is a lot of diversity there and the best thing you can do is really keep an eye on those job postings, what's coming open, really look at what they have there. If they say that it's something that's required, it probably is going to be required because of the bureaucracy of academia. It might very well be required but some of those qualities that are listed as desired, qualities not required, those may very well be very flexible. So don't get discouraged if you don't meet all of the criteria. It doesn't hurt to put yourself out there and to go for some of those positions because like I said, just being, it can be kind of intimidating to think that you don't have the experience of the qualifications but you very well may be the kind of person that they're looking for. So because of this diversity of responsibilities, I would encourage you to think about your past experiences, your degrees, even your bachelor's degree, it doesn't have to be a second master's degree. What is your background in? So my background was in education and one of the things that I think got me my first job was that background because education is very applicable even though it was elementary education, it was very applicable in the college environment because you do many roles, you do teaching. So it's really important to think about what you have to offer if you've used any kind of technology in previous positions, worked with any kind of information retrieval system in a previous occupation, you can talk about that as experience. So really dig into your background, what you have done, what kind of projects you've done management and just because you haven't done those in a library doesn't mean you don't have experience that's relevant to the job. So I would really think about those and talk to advisors, talk to people who can try to help you connect with how does the background I do have connect with academic librarianship and then you already have a head start to really start to capitalize on that experience that you do already have instead of focusing on what you don't have. And like I think it was Dr. Mayn that suggested really keying in to certain areas that can kind of become your specialty that you talk about in those interviews and things and those can relate to past experiences that you have. So it's just a wonderful thing about the field that if you really like the college environment, the university environment, the academic environment, you want to work in that, that you really can pull in your other previous experiences into that environment. This is a great place for people who are curious and love to learn. There's endless learning in academic libraries. Every student that walks up to you with a new question, you get to dive into their area of research and it's so much fun to learn about new areas. And my favorite thing was that, you got to do all the research and you never had to actually write the paper. So it's just one of those things that makes academic libraries a lot of fun. But again, there are librarians that never work face to face with the patrons, with the library users, with students and faculty. There are many positions that are behind the scenes working with technology. So I teach Info 202 Information Retrieval System Design which is one of the core courses that I see some of my students are here now but you may or may not have already taken. But I think that in academic libraries, there are so many systems that are involved in running a library, managing behind the scenes face to face that the users are interacting with websites, databases, everything. There's so many of these. And it's the academic librarians that are involved in a lot of the design decisions. So there are some librarians that may have their hands back in there in the code and in the database behind the scenes. But all of the librarians are involved in decision making about how the patrons are going to interface with these systems. How, what options do we want to be available? What do we need to be drawing their attention to? So all of this design process and that's why Information Retrieval System Design Info 202 is so critical to any librarian and especially academic librarians because so much of the work you do does revolve around these systems. So I'm excited that you all are expressing interest. There's so much to this field. I don't know, marketing has been just talked about much but there's definitely this side of putting the library out there to students trying to do outreach, trying to get them comfortable with the library, getting it on their radar. So there's this whole aspect of marketing in academic libraries. Also the user experience is huge in libraries. So if you are really like to think about how is the user interacting with anything from signage to physical spaces in the library to websites, it's all part of the user experience in academic libraries, accessibility. All of this is really huge. So like I said, at the beginning there's so many things to grab onto in this field. I encourage you to kind of view it with a very broad lens and to find the things that really resonate with you as you start to kind of build your own place within academic libraries. All right, thank you so much. Thank you to all three of our panelists. So now this is a really fun time where our attendees get a chance to ask any burning questions of any of our advisors. And it looks like we have our Q&A open but before we start going through the Q&A that are already appearing in the Q&A module of our Zoom I have a few questions that came in for the panelists of students that weren't able to make it to the session. So I'll go through these and we'll see if we can get some of these answered by whomever would like to make a stab at it. So the first question was how did you know that you felt that you were gravitating towards academic librarianship let's say over the other possible pathways? Do any of our panelists want to talk about that? I can take a stab at that one. Great. So what drew me to academic librarianship was a previous master's degree that I had it. I didn't know what to do with it on the job market. Dr. Mayne might agree with this. The history master's degree is a wonderful thing. It is not necessarily the most employable degree they have out there. And so initially, not unlike Dr. Mayne I was sort of interested in going into archival work and working with documents more directly because of my history background. But when I took my first reference class everything changed. And it sort of really connects up to what Allison was saying this idea of going down into the rabbit hole with a student and occasionally even with faculty members but not having to necessarily write the paper at the end yourself really drew me into that. So I got to sort of still play in the world of academe without having to take on all of the responsibilities that come with being a student in academia. And then I went off and became a professor and re-entered the world in a different way. But it did offer me a way of staying within academia without necessarily remaining a perpetual student. Hey, great. Dr. Mayne. Yeah, I was just going to say that like probably many people certainly in my cohort I was just out job hunting. And I was like, I just basically wanted to get into the job market and ended up starting to work in Trinity College and find that I really liked it. And then just, and that there were many opportunities to do a variety of different things. And then just basically did not move on from there. So it wasn't a great calling for me. As Dr. Hicks said, I had a history degree. I had an even narrower history degree which is a specialty in medieval history. It has since worked very well for me when I'm doing consultancy projects with special collections. But at the time, the only opportunity really was to teach and I didn't want to teach. And so I went into the academic library and then absolutely find my place there and really enjoyed it. And now of course, what am I doing with teaching? But so I think there's many different pathways Sheila that we all kind of get into. That's right. Okay, I think I'm going to go to the next question in the interest of time, which is perhaps Dr. Mayne would you like to describe the difference between getting into working at a junior college or community college versus a university library in terms of requirements and qualifications? I actually know quite a few people who have gone to work in community college. And basically there, I think, certainly in California and I believe across the country, the real focus there tends to be more on the students. As Dr. Hicks was talking about in the larger academic libraries, the faculty have to publish and it's a requirement often for them to make tenure. In the community colleges, the faculty do publish and contribute a lot, real focus is on teaching and on the students. So I think in the community college library, the work is going to be much more on the information literacy, running orientations for students and working very closely with students and possibly also working with students who've come from disadvantaged backgrounds and working with ESL students. And then obviously many community colleges are just completely open. You will also have the public coming in there. Now you will do some of that in the larger academic libraries, but there you will also be supporting faculty who will be interested in support for data services, for grants who will need to help with like scholarly communication and publishing in there. So I think it's very much more hands on with students in the community colleges. Great, okay. The next question was about similarities and differences between preparing for a job in academic librarianship versus the public librarianship pathway. I know we have many students who are interested in multiple pathways. And if any of our panelists want to comment on that, preparing for possibly a job in either both of those pathways. I would say one focus that might be different is you might want to do more extensive reference or specialized reference courses, looking more in depth at advanced searching techniques and maybe looking at special topic areas to do research in as opposed to public libraries, you might need less of the specific focused courses in reference, but there also, again, like I mentioned before, it depends on kind of what flavor of academic librarianship you're interested in as far as technology, which direction you want to go. So I would really kind of think about that and maybe even kind of thinking about as combining multiple pathways to make your own pathway. Do you want to pair academic librarianship with another focus as well, emerging technologies or really kind of making it your own? Thank you. Okay, we have so many questions. I'm gonna try to go through these in a speed round. Any panelists want to describe some of their favorite job duties and non-favorite job duties, job duties that you did not enjoy for a realistic spin on your real experiences? I can start with this one because it's very easy for me. I hated buying books, hated it. I don't know why it was, but it was something that I put off and put off and put off and then would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars in a really short amount of time, which sounds like it's really fun and really pleasant, but it ended up being really stressful for me and I just, it wasn't something I enjoyed doing. The, at least when I was purchasing books, the interfaces that I was working with were really complex and they weren't fun to use and so that was part of the problem. That you know, for those of you who have been around academic libraries for a while, they used to get a slip and used to just sort of like a little slip of paper that would give you all the information and they tried to replicate that online and it didn't go well. So that was my least favorite part of the job and the part of the job I put off a lot, even though most people think it sounds like the best part of the job. The best part of the job, I would say, was probably reference work. I really enjoyed reference work. I worked in a humanities and social sciences library so it was really interesting questions that were coming up and that sort of got that part of my brain that really enjoyed that puzzle searching and that puzzle putting together part came together. I also like people and like working with people and so that public facing side really appealed to me. So yeah, that would be what I liked and what I didn't like. Okay, then we have another question. Is there anything I can do in my last semester to help prepare myself for a career? This is a person who works a full-time job and doesn't have time to do the internship and they wanted any tips on when to begin job applications or practical steps that they could take prior to graduation or tips on what kind of portfolio work is best to utilize with a job application? Well, I can jump in there and I think it's a mistake to not try to fit in an internship, even a virtual internship. Now, I understand that you're working full-time and that of course you have to do that. I mean, you have to keep your job, you have to pay the bills, you have to put foot on the table. Of course that you must do that but often with a virtual internship you can work your hours depending on what they're having you do. It might be developing information literacy modules. For example, it might be organizing digital collections and some of that you might be able to do the evening at the weekends and work around your job and I think that would really pay off highly. Thank you. Okay, the next question. I have a quick follow-up to that. Please do, yes. There was a when to apply and I would say the real answer is you can apply basically at any point during your degree.  You can negotiate that. So if you see a job right now that you're like, oh, in six months time I'm gonna have this degree and I will be perfect for it. You can just say in six months time I will have a degree and I will be your perfect candidate in your cover letter. So don't necessarily let that hold you back from applying because they will wait for you. Okay, I'm gonna go to this question. This attendee asks, I've frequently come across academic library jobs that require knowledge of archival systems, mark, Dublin core, et cetera. What are the best MARA and MLIS classes to take to fulfill these requirements? And I think Dr. Mayn, you have your mute. I was just going to say, could you just give me the first part of the question again, please? They wanted to know the best MARA or MLIS classes that would guarantee their knowledge of the archival systems such as mark, Dublin core, et cetera. Well, obviously it would be a combination of things. I think it would be the Info 248 class, but also the class on metadata would be incredibly important. There's a class on encoded archival description, which is one of the 246 classes and also a class on XML would be the areas that I would, well, they're the areas basically that I work in because I do work in the backend things of manuscripts. And those are kind of the important and key drivers, I think at the moment. Thank you. Okay, the next question, the student wanted to know the link for the career environments pages. So all you need to do is go to the hamburger menu on our website and you will be able to navigate to the career resources pages of our website and underneath career environments, you'll find the one for academic librarianship pathway. Alrighty, the next question, this would be probably for Dr. Mayn. Is there a benefit on the job market for having completed a thesis versus the e-portfolio? Well, I think you might get very different answers from different people, but I think the general feeling and from the feedback that we get from employers is that we are very much a skills and competencies field now. And that they're very much looking for skills and competencies rather than that sort of in-depth into one tiny thing that you tend to have to do in a thesis. So we're hearing consistently that employers are very much more interested in the e-portfolio as long as the skills and competencies that we have students meet are current and the kinds of things that they're looking for. And I noticed that an awful lot of programs in our field are moving that way. But other people may have different views on that. Okay, I did my thesis option when I did my MLIS. It did make me stand out compared to the people I was competing against, particularly to get into an academic library. I also had a previous master's degree, so that made me stand out a little bit too. But do I think that it got me the job? No, I think that it came with it came with drawbacks that might have also like bit as equal to the benefits of it. So for example, it delayed my graduation by a semester because thesis work just takes time. So that's something to keep in mind. It meant that I couldn't take certain courses because I had these credits to fill. I loved it. It prepared me for my PhD. So like in hindsight, I don't regret doing it, but I don't think it necessarily made me stand out on the job market in a way that I couldn't have done in other ways, yeah. Thank you. Okay, so the next question we're gonna do is when I decided to start the MLIS program, I looked for entry level in all sorts of positions at academic libraries. But I found that my application just didn't get past HR. I used to be a professor and have a PhD in humanities. Is there any advice on how to get an application past HR and into the hands of the folks hiring at academic libraries? I guess I'd ask for a little clarification.  So I'm not clear at what stage you're at now. We're finding increasingly that HR, basically they look to see that you have the degree and they're looking to see that you have the MLIS. They don't really care about what courses you took or whatever, but they're not doing, they do that tick off often, that check off where then they then pass the applications onto the actual hiring committee. And often the hiring committees don't even look at your transcript or your grades or whatever because they've been told by HR that you have the degree and then they can start going through the pool and they will be looking much more at your cover letter, your CV and those kinds of things. So I'm not really sure if you now have the MLIS or if you're just applying now that you've started the program. And I think the other thing is I think it's very important to make sure that you tailor everything specifically to the actual qualifications of that particular opening and the particular things that they're asking for. I'd also like to add on that we do have our career specialist Kim Doherty who works closely with students in the program and alumni. So she might be a great resource for you to reach out to individually to have some of those conversations. I'll go to the next question. If a local academic library is not currently hiring or advertising internships, what are your thoughts on reaching out to see if they need volunteers or are they generally not open to that? Oh, I would reach out absolutely and see if they're open to that. And even if they're not currently offering an internship, they might be very taken with you have changed their mind on that. There's never any harm in asking all people can say is no. But I would definitely go in and have a chat. Alrighty, the next question. Do you think a second master's after the MLIS or a PhD is a necessary thing in the future library world? If so, have you heard of any jobs that help pay for these degrees like in other academic fields? Yes, the short answer to the second part of that question is yes, academic libraries will often support a subject master's or even a PhD if necessary. Sometimes they will pay directly and help you with tuition if they think that there is a benefit to the organization. So if you wanna go off and do a PhD and a topic that they don't care about, they might support you in terms of time off but they might not support you in terms of salary or tuition. But if they decide that you wanna go off and do a PhD in library leadership, for example, then there is a good chance that they will pay for it if they think it's going to benefit you. And more importantly, the organization moving forward. So yeah, that's the short answer. Not so short. We'll try to get a couple more questions in. How common is it for librarians to move between academic and public libraries or do librarians tend to stay on one side or the other? They tend to stay. It's not super uncommon but most people tend to stay once they get in. I've seen, most of the movement I have seen has occurred at the management and leadership levels of organizations. That's where you tend to see a bit more movement. The one of the differences is that if you end up at a big research public library like New York Public Library, it's actually just because of the nature of the work at New York Public Library, academic libraries are very, very interested in that or there are other large research public libraries in the United States as well. But it's a little bit more unusual to see cross-pollination across the sectors. Thank you. Okay, the next question. Do you think in the coming years that we will see opportunities with academic libraries for remote contract work or remote part-time work related to outreach programs, marketing or related services? I don't know that I have a good answer to that. The outreach work, for the outreach work, I do see quite a lot of remote work in academic libraries where they bring in part-time people to help with teaching. And a lot of our students have got good work that way because they're very comfortable with things like Canvas and a lot of the libraries are offering online literacy classes or online orientations to support faculty in classes. So I'm seeing that. I don't know about the actual outreach and whether that will continue or not, possibly, because some of that has had to go online during COVID. And so people are looking at different ways of doing things now. Wow, I see that we have reached the hour of one o'clock. I see that we have a couple of questions that haven't been answered. So what I'd love for you folks to do that didn't get answers is to please send me an email, iSchool at sjsu.edu and I will get answers for you and I will get those email back out to you. I really want to encourage all of you who are interested in this pathway to take advantage of the resources that are on the iSchool website as well as your faculty pathway advisors and reach out to them by email for support with these questions and also the advising tools that we have provided you. Here's a link on the slide for the advising toolkit. I want to thank all of our panelists for joining us today and everyone for coming out and participating in this session. We will be taking a tour around all the pathways this year and offering more workshops on the different pathways. So on behalf of Taryn Reiner and myself, Dr. Main, Allison Johnson and Deborah Hicks, thanks again for joining us for this Lunch and Learn workshop.