You are groping down a dark alleyway in the French Quarter of New Orleans, driven by terror, hounded by the curse of the Papalloi, the curse from which there is no escape. Escape, produced and directed by William N. Robeson, and carefully contrived to free you from the four walls of today for a half hour of high adventure. Tonight we escape into two worlds, one of modern jazz, the other of primitive voodoo, and to a doomed man who brought them together, as William Irish imagined it in his eerie story, Papa Benjamin. All his police department, 4th, Pre-Singh Sergeant Tal over speaking. Now, yeah, we'll pick him up on a drunk 723, try it. Yes, sir. What can I do for you? Are you in charge here? Yeah. Hey, aren't you Eddie Block, the band leader? That's right. Hey, Joe, look, I was here, Eddie Block. Well, never thought we'd get a visit from a big celebrity like you, Mr. Block, and at four o'clock in the morning. I suppose, though, this is just the shank of the evening for a big shot orchestra leader. Well, what can we do for you, Mr. Block? I just killed a man. Yeah, you're kidding. I tell you, I've just killed a man. I guess you've been working too hard, Mr. Block. You're imagining things. Here, here's the gun. Look at it. Man, sit down, Mr. Block. Better have a drink of water. You'll feel better. Oh, no. I'm all right. Sergeant, this gun's been used all right. Smell. Was it an accident, Mr. Block? No. Well, who'd you use it on? Who was it? I don't know his name. They call him Papa Benjamin. Sounds lucky. Yeah. White man? No, he was a Negro. Oh, well, now, in the audience... Oh, no, no, no. It was nothing like that. Well, what was he doing to you? He was killing me. Huh? Killing you? But how? Look at me. I used to weigh 200 pounds. I'm down to 102. Well, how? How was he killing you? Would you believe in anything you can't see, can't hear, can't touch? Well... I've been to the biggest doctors in the world. They don't believe me. How can I expect you to? You simply say I'm cracked and let it go at that. I don't want to spend the rest of my life in an asylum. Oh, look, Mr. Block, you say he was a Negro named Papa Benjamin. Yeah, he was an all-to-all man. 80, maybe 90. Skin and bones, he could hardly walk. And I shot him. You sure?  Yeah, of course. Well, where? I don't know exactly. A little back alley in the Fierre-Carré near Congo Square. Well, I suppose when you take us there, can you do that? Then maybe we'll find out this is just a bad dream. This is the alley. To the right, between the buildings. All right, let's go. You pack, Sergeant, and catch cold without it. Quiet, you! Oh, cops! Nice neighborhood. This is it. In that door and up the stairs. Come on. Yeah. Oh, no, no. Don't make me go up there again, please. Better come, Mr. Block. You're showing us.  There's somebody here on the stairs. Hmm? Yeah, he won't bother us. Dead drunk. Step over him and let's go. This ain't the most pleasant neighborhood to come to call him in. This it? Yeah. In that door. Come on. Better call a commissioner. Mr. Block wasn't kiddin' this man's date. But why? Why? Because he was killing me, Commissioner. It was self-defensive. He never came near me once. I was the one who went to him. I offered him 3,000, 10,000, any amount, and he refused. Finally, I offered him my gun and asked him to shoot me, whether to get it over with quickly and not to drag it out any longer. Then when he said no, you shot him. Yeah. So you can lock me up now. Mr. Block, do you think we want to hang a murder-wrap on you, one of the most popular celebrities in the United States?  Now, I'm trying to find an out for you. He was killing me.  A stumble bum his own age? No. Mr. Eddie Block, the top band leader of America, who can name his own price anyway, who has about everything a man can want. Tell me just one thing, Mr. Block. How was he killing you? By thinking thought-ways of death had reached me through the air. Now, Mr. Block, you... You want to hush the whole thing up, don't you? No. No, Mr. Block. But I'm going to get the whole story, so you might as well start telling me from the beginning. All right. It began one night about two years ago. We were playing at Maxon's on Charles Street. We were just another band, small Dixieland outfit then, Eddie Block and his chips. Judy Jarvis, my wife, did the vocals, but we weren't setting the world on fire. Business was so bad I knew what to expect when I got a call from the manager one night after closing time. Oh, hi, Eddie. I thought we'd better have a little talk. It's that bad, huh? We took in $4,500 this week. Yeah, I see. And you can cancel my contract anytime it falls under $5,000. I get it. Eddie can get the same liquor and sandwiches anywhere, but he'll go where the band has something. Tonight there were more waiters in the place than customers. Judy didn't even get a hand. It's not her fault. I know it's not her fault. She's okay, but... Well, I'm asking you, what's wrong? Oh, I don't know. I'm getting the latest arrangement sent to me from New York. We sweat our heads bald, rehearsing. This is New Orleans, practically the cradle of jazz. You've got to give them something new. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. When do I leave? Well, finish the week up. See if you can do something about it by Monday. If not, I'll have to wear St. Louis to get Kruger's band. I'm sorry, Eddie. Oh, that's okay. You're not running a charity bazaar. But I didn't feel so cocky about it. It looked like we were on the skids. The band just didn't seem to have it. And I wasn't good enough to figure out why and pull them out of it. I was feeling pretty low when I went back to the deserted bandstand to pick up some music. The place was dark and empty except for a couple of scrub women cleaning up. A dark nightclub can be an eerie place sometimes. I got that feeling just before I saw it. Saw it lying on the floor between the stands. It was a severed chicken claw with a red ribbon tied around it. I almost laughed. How did that thing get there? Then I picked it up and tossed it out of the floor where the scrub women were cleaning up. I certainly wasn't expecting the reaction I got. They took one look, turned and ran out. I just recovered from that surprise and was bending down to pick up some music that had slipped to the floor when I heard someone come in. I guess I was pretty well hidden from view anyway he didn't see me. It was Johnny Statz, my drummer, and he was acting funny, looking intently at the floor searching for something. Suddenly he spotted this chicken claw on the floor and grabbed it up with a terrific sigh of relief stuffed it into his pocket and walked out. What I did then I did on a strange impulse and it changed the whole course of my life. I followed Johnny Statz. I suppose I just meant to catch up with him and have a cup of coffee with him somewhere and ask about the chicken claw. But as I followed him farther and farther down into the view carry down to Congo Square it was a growing curiosity that kept me on his trail. When he turned into that dark alleyway I stopped and debated. I felt like an eavesdropper and yet something drew me on and I walked up that dark alley. I passed that one lighted window but I went on threw a sort of tunnel into another alleyway and then I stopped. Ahead of me Johnny Statz stood before a dark dismal looking old wreck of a building. Suddenly he whistled quietly a gigantic man appeared out of the shadows. Johnny handed in the chicken claw and was motioned into the building and then I heard sounds coming from the upstairs of that building. A throbbing drum, a wailing, an unearthly sound and yet wonderful. An exotic fascinating rhythm. This was music, something new, something sensational, something that would set New Orleans on its ear and put Eddie Block in the big time. I had to get in there and hear it. I was mighty busy for the next five minutes. I ran back down the alley overturning five or six garbage cans before I found what I needed. Then back to that lighted window in the alley and a five spot in exchange for a red ribbon. Then I was back at the dark building walking up to that menacing shadow. Lala, let me see your face. Okay, okay easy with that knife my ribs are tender. Your face never been here before. My friend Johnny starts up there, he'll tell you. Mr. Johnny, your friend, yes you've come? This, this chicken claw told me to come. Papa Benjamin sent you there? Certainly. You'll make me late. Papa Benjamin won't like that. All right, go along here. We're singing No All in New Orleans. I groped up the stairs half expecting to feel his knife in my back. But I got to the top safely. Cautiously, I opened the door and slipped down. The room was full of people, they were in such a state of frenzy I wasn't even noticed. I slipped into a corner and slid down by the wall sitting on the floor. That was a sight I'll never forget, wild, fantastic, hideous, revolting, fascinating. In the center of the room was an incredibly old man, naked to the waist, wearing a hideous mask. And holding a live chicken. There were wild gestures, weird incantations, frantic dancing, shouting, rolling of eyes. There was blood, and always there was the chant. Nobody noticed me. After a moment I took a piece of copy paper out of my pocket and began putting down the notes. It was wonderful, fantastic and wonderful. In ten minutes I had it, and I'd seen enough, enough for a lifetime of nightmares. I began to feel sick, I wanted to get out. I started to stand up. Suddenly the room went dead. A stranger is here. His bony arms stretched out straight from the shoulder, pointing at me like a narrow. And there was blood on it. What you do here? Pop all over it. I notice, ma'am. Let me find out. No one moved. There was no sound in the room as Johnny Stats came over and squatted beside me. You're in terrible trouble, Eddie. I don't know if I can get you out of it. What is this, Stats? What are you doing here? There's no time to talk now. You've got to do something quicker. You'll be a dead man. Why? I'm on the very heart of New Orleans. I wouldn't dare. Listen, you've seen enough tonight. You know better. Eddie, there's only one way. What? Join. Become one of us. Oh, no. It's the only way, Eddie. I can't save you. You'd better hurry up, because unless you do, you'll never get out of here alive. You know what this is, don't you? This is voodoo. Okay, sure. I'll join up. Why not? Wait a minute, Eddie. There's a lot more to it than you think. Unless you're serious, it'd be better to get cut to pieces right now. All right, don't worry. I'm serious. All right. Papalloi, his spirit wishes to join our spirits. The old man burned some feathers while the others watched silently. Then he nodded. He came out all right. He reads them. The spirits are willing. There were other things. Rituals, ceremonies, another sacrifice. Then as the chanting started again, they brought me the sacrificial bowl. I didn't have to be told what was in it. I started to draw back. Drake, Eddie.  Late next morning, the band assembled at Maxim's for a rehearsal. When Johnny Statz got there, he found another drummer sitting in his place. Naturally, he came to me. What's all this about, Eddie? I don't want any voodoo lover in my band. That's all Statz. Here's a check for two weeks' salary. So you're crossing them, are you? Boy, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes for all the gold and port knocks. If you mean that bad dream last night, I haven't told anybody and I won't. I'd be laughed at. I'm only remembering what I can use of it. The jungle is just trees to me, the Congo or river, and the nighttime is just a time for electric lights. Hey, but this new number you're gonna rehearse this morning. I said I'd remember what I can use. Listen, Eddie, that chant is sacred. It's secret. It was secret. Eddie, don't do it. Look, here's a couple of sea notes. Hand them these. That ought to pay up my dues from now to doomsday. And I don't want a receipt. And if they try putting poison in my orange juice, they'll end up in a chain. It's not that easy, Eddie. You're one of us. Oh, get out. Goodbye, dead men. Graham, the manager of the club, changed his mind about cancelling our contract when he heard us rehearse the chant. Instead, he spent five Gs in publicity. And Saturday night was set for the big unveiling. It seemed like all New Orleans tried to jam into Maxons. Came to hear the voodoo chant. The real thing. Just before we were ready to hit it, Judy came up to me. Eddie, listen. Let's not do it.  Not do it. This is it. This is our ticket to the big time. It'll be a sense safe. Yeah, I know, but I got a funny feeling. And look, I found this under your dressing room door just now. It sounds like a warning. Somebody doesn't want you to play that number. Let me see. You can summon the spirits, but can you dismiss them again? Think well. Forget it, baby. Stats is trying to scare me because I fired him. Ladies and gentlemen. Come on, honey, let's go. They're waiting. Maxon, it takes great pleasure in bringing you a historic moment in musical history. You're about to hear, for the first time anywhere, the voodoo chant. The age-old ceremonial rhythm, no one but the initiated has ever heard before. This is the real thing. An accurate transcription. Not a note's been changed. So, ladies and gentlemen, Eddie Block and his chips present for the first time anywhere, the voodoo chant. Thank you for more, but we were playing with KG. Once a night, that had packed him in. After it was over, I went back to our dressing room. Judy got there before me. She was reading a newspaper somebody had brought in. Eddie, listen. Oh, baby, you were wonderful, and we wowed him. We're in the money now. Yeah, Eddie, but I'm... Oh, boy, am I tired. I feel more tired than I've ever felt in my life. Nervous strain, I guess, huh? Let down. Eddie, look here in the paper. Oh, who cares about the paper now? Eddie, it's Johnny Stett. Huh? He's dead. He drowned himself in Lake Portia train this afternoon. He... this afternoon? Then that note, it wasn't Johnny. Oh, look, Eddie, you can't blame yourself. Me? Oh, no, no, no, no. Of course not, but I think I know who to blame. What do you mean? Nothing, nothing.  You look worn out. Yeah, I am. I... I feel dead.  Oh, be careful. What's the matter? I don't know.  I don't feel anything there now. Maybe it slipped down. I don't know. Couldn't have been much. There. Now, you just lie down. You'll feel better in a few minutes. You've been working too hard. You should relax now. Maybe take a few days off. Eddie, look here. Where did this come from? What? It's a little doll that was lying on the dressing table.  Let me see. That's funny. Look, there in the back. There's a little pin sticking in the back. Yes. That's right where I felt the pain. That started it. The next day, I had a backache. Later, there was a numbness that spread to my shoulders, arms, legs. I felt tired all the time, listless, dead. I began to lose weight. I couldn't get Johnny Stats out of my mind. He'd introduced me to them, vouched for me, and he'd committed suicide. He knew he hadn't waited. I decided to get out of New Orleans. I went to New York, playing the chan, of course. I had to. It was my biggest asset now. But nothing changed. I was losing weight from a long time. From a husky 200 down to 160. I couldn't sleep. Maybe if I put an ocean between. I took an offer in London, toured the continent away a year. I was an international hit now, the biggest attraction in music. But I was down to 110, dying on my feet. The doctors couldn't figure it out. Reynolds in London told me. The order is normal, Mr. Block, as any one I ever examined. You're so well-balanced that you haven't even got that extra little touch of imagination most actors and musicians have. I guess that's true, Doctor. I'm just mediocre. And yet, you might say, my success is killing me. And so, after two years, I finally realized it was no use. I came back. Back to New Orleans. And back to the dark alleyway, down near Congo Square. I could just barely drag myself along. But I had to see Papa Benjamin. I slowly climbed the stairs, up to that loathsome door. I went in. There he was. Papa Benjamin. Staring at me from the bed as if he'd been expecting me. Then he started to laugh.   I'll do anything. Anything you say. What been done cannot be undone. You think spirits of earth, air, fire, water, know what forgiveness means. Intercede for me then. You brought it about? Here's money. I'll give you twice as much. All I earn, all I ever hope to earn. You have fouled the Obaia. Death has been on you from that night, all over the world, in the air above. You have mocked spirit with a chant that summons him. And please, please, here's a gun. Kill me now and be done with it. I can't stand anymore. All you have to do is shoot. I'll write a note, sign it, that I did it myself. Death will come, but different. Slow. Oh, slow. Oh no, no, no. I can't stand it. I won't. I won't.  Yeah, that's it.  And that's all, Commissioner. And I came here. At the police station. You know the rest. Well? All right, Mr. Blog. Don't believe me, do you? Yes, I believe you. Not about the curse, of course. That was your own mind. They planted the suggestion in your mind you did the rest. But it's plain that you killed in self-defense. Crazy kind of self-defense, but I think we can manage it. We'll try. The Commissioner managed it, all right? How is almost a story in itself? How a detective with a moulage false face posed his pop of Benjamin and called the voodoo clan together and into a trap? How they collected the evidence that proved my story? And how they sent most of that voodoo bunch to jail? My name wasn't even connected with the case, so now I'm free. I'm living again. I've gained weight, and the tiredness and the numbness is gone. I took a nice vacation, I went to Bermuda, relaxed, and had fun. Now I'm back in New Orleans at Maxims, and the whole thing is forgotten. We're opening tonight, and the place is packed. Everybody's come to hear the chant. Eddie Block and the chant. We're on our way now. Nothing can stop us. Nothing can stop us. Gentlemen, we welcome back on his triumphal return, Eddie Block and his chips, playing for you the one and only. Look, Adam and Judy, they're eating it up. What's the matter? I was hoping I'd never hear this thing again. What do you mean? It's your trademark, yours and that is? I tried to persuade him not to do it, and he wouldn't miss it. Why? You aren't imagining all that voodoo stuff. I don't know. It was all in his mind that I nearly killed him. I don't think you can put it out of your mind if they get so easy. When Eddie plays it again... Oh, no. Hey, wait a minute. Look at Eddie. There's something wrong. What? Why are you staggering? Oh, wait. Here, let me pick him up. He's probably just fainted from the excitement. No! I guess Papa Benjamin won after all. And tonight brought you Papa Benjamin by William Irish. Adapted for radio by John Dunkel, with Frank Lovejoy as Eddie Block, Louis van Rooten as Papa Benjamin, Harry Bartell as the police commissioner, and Joan Banks as Judy. Music was conceived and conducted by Cy Fuhr. Next week... You are speeding through the night on the Eastern Bull Express. You're alone and unarmed, and suddenly you realize that your life is in danger, that somewhere on the train are deadly killers from whom you must escape. Next week, we escape with Harold Lam's exciting adventure story, Three Good Witnesses. Good night, then, until the same time next week, when again we offer you... Escape! This is CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting System.


Your Coca-Cola bottler presents, Claudia, based on the plays and novels by Rose Frankin Brought to you transcribed Monday through Friday by your friendly neighbor who bottles Coca-Cola Relax and while you're listening refresh yourself. Have a Coke and now Claudia Good day for a walk. I'm just walking around the estate. Wait for me. Don't walk too far It's an awfully big estate. This family's ancestral mansion's got to be big I find it very hard to think of me being an ancestor You know, I think I'm going to make a wonderful mother After all I was very bright when it came to picking out my descendants father. Thank you. You're welcome Anything special I've done you have designed such a wonderful addition to the house that it looks as though could have been built in 1762 Well, I'm not sure that's all together a compliment after all We're supposed to have made a little progress a new wing looks a little odd It's only just bones still of course where we'll get some flesh on it soon. When will that happen just as soon as the bones have settled Oh, I can't wait. I'm just bursting to see it. Then we'll have to paint its clothes on Why can't it all hurry you'll have to wait maybe a while? They can't paint green wood and that certainly is green wood. Everything is getting green.  It's just an old black crow crow Oh, isn't that terrible? Do we have to scare it away? Go on make a face at him. Go ahead I don't want to scare him away. In fact, I love him. He's our first animal. Mm-hmm. He's not an animal He's a bird. Well, he's our first bird then as far as I'm concerned. He's our last one Over Jared Tucker's place. Oh, we got to raise chickens. I should say not nothing smaller than cows with horns Well, that all depends. We've got lots of room for them, haven't we and you're trying to cover every inch of it this morning I know we won't have a chance to do any walking after Julia and a heart they get here I'm beginning to wish they were here already. Oh, you're tired darling a little I'm sorry. I didn't think Guess it is a pretty steep hill Look at the view of the house from here all ours yours and mine We might share it with a few other noughtens in the near future and don't forget the cows. Hmm. We're putting them in the barn It's a lovely red barn Will be when a when we're finished with it. We're gonna rebuild that too That's just what I came up here for to see what we'll have to do to it We've already spent lots more money on this house than we expected to all the more reason for not skimping on Why do we have to spend money on a house for the cows? I thought they lived out of doors anyway Now you don't want our neighbors saying that the noughtens are cruel to cows I don't want them saying we're cruel to our mortgage either. We still have a little money left over Well, that doesn't mean we have to spend it just because we have it Claudia This is a farm we have here If we don't use it as a farm we're Being unfaithful to it. We're mistreating it We're not letting it be the kind of place it has to be And in the end we'll let pay the penalty David. How much money is it going to cost? Well, let's see Come on inside So cold in here. No, that's the first thing we're going to do is eat it. Oh, no that costs Well, David, you know how much it costs. It was the most expensive part of our alterations in the house We're not going to have a thermostat, you know How much can that say? Cheer up darling, it's not going to have a very complicated heating system just the cows being here to warm it Oh, they make their own heat. Isn't that convenient and of course you're going to have a concrete floor here David Oh, no. Oh, yes, you can't have a decent cow barn without a concrete floor.  I know how to milk one But we're going to get a milking machine. Oh, no, but we Won't get that for five more years five more years. We won't have any mortgage left at all You mean we won't have anything left except the mortgage whatever I mean. I mean we won't have any money Oh darling, we'll have a lot more than money though We'll have six sons knock wood to cows you me and one black crow Not to forget a brother and sister-in-law. We're going to get their first look at Norton land any minute Come on out.  Are we I don't think we should spend a penny for always a bargain hunter You can't have a farm without a barn you can't have a barn without a floor and darling wait And you see we'll have the best barn on River Road. Hey, there they are Come on. Let's hurry It's all right for the guests to be politely late, but we're not the guests It's us we it's we oh that sounds so silly It's Julia. Look. She's waving of course. She's waving you didn't expect Julia to shout am I terrible for shouting not terrible But I'm glad we don't live in a hotel We made it so I see hello Hartley Isn't it wonderful? Well, it's a real farm, isn't it? Hello, Claudio. Hello. It's amazing How much colder Connecticut is the New York reminds me almost a Boston The climate I mean did you have trouble finding it? Oh, no not too much. You're really quite near the riddles Well, we like to think that the riddles are near us And you gave us very good directions and Mulliston's really expert at following directions We've yet to have a chauffeur who isn't good at following directions as long as Hartley rides in the front seat and tells him which way to go Must be wonderful to know which way to go. I'm always getting lost lost there Only among the unimportant things I think Claudia you look wonderful farming agrees with you. Oh, that's too delightful farming. They aren't farming yet We aren't even living here yet No, I think when you've decided to farm that makes you emotionally a farmer Don't they both look wonderful, Julia. They always did. I think there's something a little extra about this time It might be you know because they're cold maybe go inside Certainly, but it won't be much warmer in there. The heat isn't turned on. Well, at least we'll be out of the wind Come on, David produce the key to your mansion.  Come on, Claudia. We can go inside, too David this house has great dignity, hasn't it? I can understand now how you happen to be attracted to it Well, we did our best not to injure its integrity when we made our additions. You've done a wonderful piece of work Hartley, did you notice the ingenious way this annex is being attached? David's made it seem an integral part of the whole Yes, he certainly has. It's a fine-looking farm. Did you notice how they've kept the original stairs? Isn't that a magnificently balanced flight? You know Hartley, our New England ancestors had a very good eye for design and craftsmanship Which I'm afraid too many of us today have forgotten about. They also knew how to hack a farm out of this woodland If you've ever seen the rocks in a Connecticut field, you'd wonder how anybody ever cleared it for tilling Oh, they just built stone walls for fences when the stone walls were finished their fields were clear David even wants to remodel the barn so it'll be just like an apartment house for cows. Wonderful Do you really think so too, Hartley?  Hartley, I'd like you to notice the way David designed this large living room window I don't know why you sound so surprised, my dear. David was always an excellent architect. They've handled it with taste and imagination Don't you think so, Hartley? Fine, fine I'll be very happy when Nancy Riddle sees how you treated this room Nancy's been trying for years to attain the same result that David's achieved on his very first attempt. Of course he has David Do you have any idea how many people and I mean substantial people in this neighborhood of living in old houses of this type? Quite a few I suppose. Well, there aren't any other houses like this one This one is something special David says and besides Julia how few of your Substantial people are even substantial enough to farm their own grounds I wish Hartley you could manage to talk about farming without giving the impression that the nearest you ever got to the land Was the 18th green of your golf club. Well, David and Claudia are going to farm and I think they'll be very happy Well, I can think of other ways of passing their time up here, which would be more appropriate more lucrative and I Think more interesting play polo with the riddles my dear and I think that's hardly in David's line David Can you play polo? Oh? Why when I served with the King's own West Sussex rifles I played polo without a horse And you lie without a conscience you're very amusing, but I'm very serious David seems to me You have a real opportunity here to develop a reputation David is developing quite a fine reputation as an industrial architect There's no reason why in addition he shouldn't become a real specialist in the modernization of these Connecticut houses No, Claudia and I are building a home Julia not setting up a roadside stand to do business in but David Now you must admit that the people for whom you do some of this renovating might give you some of the other opportunities you're looking for Yes, you know David. They there's something in what Julia says After all the riddles the McPherson's the reeds and the frosts have considerable industrial interests And you certainly won't meet them if they think you're just a couple of farmers Isn't that so hard? Well, I guess there's something to that too, but we didn't come up here to meet people We came up here because Because what well Because here Julia by by ourselves on our own land was the way we wanted to live David It's really very important to remember that First of all, you are an architect. I do remember I don't think that you should get sidetracked by these notions of farming which After all someone in your position Really a trifle romantic. Do you really think farming will be romantic? I knew it was going to be fun But for a lot of other reasons you're very sweet my lamb I'm afraid very young you mean Julia that I should spend my time up here Designing and redesigning other people's old houses. Yes, some of your time. Why not? You've got a real taste for it this charming house now We've treated it with great imagination. It would be very easy for you to thank you Julia And yet when Hartley and I approached it from the road what we noticed first was a large red barn From the road it looks very much like any old farmer's house I think that when you finish the house you should tear down that barn Cost you very little money much much less probably than patching it up. I'm uh, I'm afraid that isn't the way I look at this place at all, but David after all isn't renovating that barn going to be a very expensive procedure It is not darling. We were just saying that it would be David It's not expensive since we have the money. That's all the money we have and this is all the farm we have We mustn't spoil it. You mean that you're ready to go ahead with rebuilding the barn That's what you want, isn't it? And that Julia is the formula for a happy marriage Darling the market the market was a jolly enough song once upon a time But many housewives fail to see the fun in it today If you're one of those here's an idea Look for that familiar red cooler during your marketing and take time to enjoy the pause that refreshes After inviting well iced coke somehow the day's errands seem to get accomplished with greater ease More and more food stores are installing co-coolers now to help you shop refresh You know mr. King Claudia and David's farm is really a lovely place. Well, it gradually seems to be working out Doesn't it Mrs. Norton? I hope they'll be happy their way. I was very impressed with what David's done with the house Now the next big job. He's starting on the ground so soon. Yes The tree surgeon is coming over tomorrow. I Know what that means unfortunately Unfortunately exactly tree surgeons aren't a very optimistic lot, but Well, anyway, that's for Claudia and David to learn about and worry about Goodbye, mr. King Hartley and I've got to hurry back to town. Goodbye, Mrs. Norton. Have a nice trip Well as I was about to say Every day Monday through Friday Claudia comes to you transcribed with the best wishes of your friendly neighbor who bottles coca-cola So listen again tomorrow at the same time And now this is Joe King saying or if wire and remember Whoever you are whatever you do Wherever you may be When you think of refreshment think of coca-cola or ice cold coca-cola makes any pause the pause that refreshes This broadcast of Claudia was supervised and directed by William Brown Maloney and Now here's a word from your friendly neighbor who bottles coca-cola


So hello, everyone. It's lovely to be with you today and to talk to you about anthropology in general, but also what anthropology means now in the post pandemic world. I saw that in the Q&A there was one question. The last question was about possible questions that social anthropologists could examine about the post pandemic world. I hope the next few minutes will give you an answer. And the other questions, there are no more questions. Okay, so I hope everyone is well, wherever you are, I hope you're healthy and good health and keen to learn about anthropology. Before we get started, can I have a show of hands with the raise hand function? Unfortunately, I can't see anyone. And I would have loved to interact with you, but the setting doesn't allow me to do that. But can I have a show of hands in the raise hand function from anyone who doesn't know what anthropology is? Do we have anyone in the audience who would want to know first what anthropology is? Or do you come here with some knowledge of what anthropology is? So most of you do have some idea about what anthropology does, and I hope that in the next half an hour or hour, however long we are together, you leave this virtual room with some better idea of what anthropology is and what it can become now in the context of the pandemic. Before we get started, I might have to say a little bit about myself. My name is Orkide Beruzan. I'm the convener of the Medical Anthropology Pathway at the Anthropology Department at SOAS. I'm a physician, a former scientist and an anthropologist of medicine and science and technology. I studied in universities of Tehran, Oxford, and I obtained my doctorate degree from MIT in the program that I just mentioned, History and Anthropology of Science and Technology. So that's the background that kind of informs what I'm going to tell you. And I've been teaching medical anthropology and STS science and technology studies for over 10 years now in the United States and also here in the UK. And for those of you who are applying to social anthropology or other MA programs that we offer or medical anthropology, I will be the person who deals with the Medical Anthropology Pathway. So in order to talk about anthropology and the pandemic, I want to start with saying a little bit about what we think of the pandemic, how we've experienced this past year. The reason why I was so keen on interacting with you on the screen was that I wanted to ask you about this past year, the immense transformative experience that this year has been for everyone, regardless of how they've been affected by the pandemic, whether medically or socially or through your families, your loved ones, or even the neighborhood around you or the cities you've been in or the movements that you've been deprived of. But think about those experiences and think about the pandemic, not just as a medical problem or a public health problem because it is not just a public health problem. It is also a political problem. It is also a social problem. It is also a historical entity. It is also an economic problem, as we all know about the impact of the pandemic on the economy. So as anthropologists, with medical anthropology, medical anthropology is the oldest and sort of largest subdiscipline within anthropology. And it was kind of formalized in the 1970s, but people were doing medical anthropology even before that, even before the name of the discipline existed. But in anthropology in general, and specifically medical anthropology, we study a number of things. We study matters of health, matters pertaining to health in the context of historical, sociological, and political structures. In other words, we go beyond understanding health only in terms of biology, or in terms of anatomy or physiology or how the body works or genetics or virology. We look at health in a broader sense, in the sense of what it is, what does it mean to live a good life, what does it mean to live a life with integrity, with wholeness, within a particular or specific social, historical, political setting where we are located. That's a really lovely cute cat. We also study epidemics, pandemics in the context of global health. And, you know, there are a lot of anthropological studies on HIV AIDS, on cholera, on, you know, historical and anthropological studies of epidemics and pandemics are actually what have enabled us this past year to to sort of have the tools to think about and to approach this pandemic. So whatever we've been discussing and engaging with this past year rests upon a very long history and a very sizable body of scholarship within anthropology on in general public health issues but also specifically epidemics and pandemics. We also study mental health, which I since the day that the coronavirus pandemic hits. I've been very concerned with the parallel pandemic that is emerging with it and that was that has been the mental health issues that it has caused and that's something that I specifically personally work on. We also study health systems. We study the NHS, we study the health, health care system in different countries, how they work, how they, I'm distracted by the chat. We study health structures. So a lot of what we will be talking about will hopefully make you think about your own experiences if you're in the UK to think differently about what the NHS means, what its history can teach us. What happens to the NHS and it has been happening to the NHS tells us about what kind of society we're becoming and so on and so forth. We study how governments and organizations intersect with our experience of health. So if I have an illness from the medical anthropological perspective, the illness is not just the private matter. The illness puts me in a very intimate relationship with politics, with governments, with the state and with economic structures that shape my experience of that particular illness. All of you have already heard a lot about how different groups of people have been impacted by the pandemic in different ways. And the fact that, you know, pandemics are not very democratic. They don't hit the poor and the rich the same way. They don't hit minorities the same way as they hit other populations, etc. So the premise here is that any health related entity, including illnesses, including epidemics, including pandemics, is not just a biological entity. In order to understand the pandemic, and this is why anthropology is extremely important in our approach to the world, the post-2020 world, we will need anthropological understandings of these notions. Because the premise is that these experiences and these issues are not just biological issues. We cannot tackle the coronavirus pandemic only by understanding the virus and the vaccine and, you know, biology. We will have to understand the historical context that brought us here. We will have to understand the economic context that shaped our ability to deal with the pandemic in different ways in different countries. We will have to understand the political context that shaped the belief systems that led to decisions in different governments and by different governments and also the perception and reception of those policies in populations among lay people. We will have to understand the cultural elements, the cultural context of what it means to experience a health issue that is sort of putting us all in the same boat. We're all in it together. What does that do to neoliberalism? What does that do to capitalism? So there is a whole range of issues we need to understand in order to tackle the pandemic. And that's what health is really. So this is why, you know, when I was thinking about, you know, for a taster section on anthropology, I don't want this to be about medical anthropology. I'm using health. I mean, I want to, I wanted to be about medical anthropology to some degree, but I'm using health as an example of how we approach notions and concepts in anthropology. You can replace health here with climate change. You can replace it with food. You can replace it with migration. So all of these topics in anthropology, we approach them from these different angles and we try to understand what they are in a sort of a holistic way. And we also want to emphasize here that health in general and again the pandemic in this particular instance are issues that are also shaped by other structures. Not just politics and history and economy, but also the experience of the pandemic, the social life of the pandemic has to make us think about notions such as gender, such as race, such as social inequality, such as austerity, democracy, globalization, and technology, and freedom. So the way the past year has changed all of our lives. I mean, never did I even dream of being in a taster session looking at myself and Anna, sorry, and Laura, you know, this is a new experience. What has technology done to us and where is technology in the shaping of this pandemic? So we need to understand the world in terms of technological advancements, in terms of how AI is shaping the future, how machine learning is shaping the future. What are the ethical stakes of all of these changes? What are the key bioethical and ethical questions of the next 10 years? So by the time you graduate and you move into your current or future careers, what are the main questions say in 2030? Are we going to think about health or illness or technology the same way that we think now? I hope not. And I think one of the things that the pandemic has done is that in a way it's been giving the public a crash course in anthropology, because without calling it anthropology, people have become more aware of these sociopolitical and historical and cultural aspects of health because of the pandemic. Now, I'm going to introduce you to a concept that we use in medical anthropology, and I'm going to use that to talk about COVID in a more specific way. Just to get a sense of whether I'm speaking to, you know, void or not, can I have a show of hands through the raise hand function? If you think, if you want me to continue talking about COVID and this understanding of the pandemic through anthropology, in order to give you a sense of what anthropology means in the post-pandemic world, just raise your hand, please. In other words, are we good to go in this direction? I'm assuming that we can keep going, Laura. The concept in anthropology is a conceptual framework we use, and it's called medicalization. And what it means, medicalization, what it means is that, and I'm going to use this to give you a sense of how, in anthropology, how we go about doing what I just said we do. We use specific conceptual frameworks, specific theories, and also ethnographic methods for our research. I'd be happy to tell you more about ethnography and what our research method is in the Q&A, if you are interested in that. We also use these theories and conceptual frameworks in order to make sense of events and happenings and social phenomena. In medicalization, what we mean is medicalization is a social process whereby human conditions that are, say, social, political, human conditions come under the purview of medicine. In other words, they become medical.  You can think about it in terms of the criminal matter. It could be a crime. There are countries where it's a crime to use drugs, and there are also other places where we approach addiction as an illness. When we approach it as an illness, we make it a medical problem. And therefore, what we're saying is that what is needed is a medical solution. So we don't put people in jail, we give them treatments. You see the difference? And so medicalization basically means exactly what the word implies, making something medical, a medical problem, making something a matter of medical understanding. Now, when we do this, we are taking for granted a set of values. So for example, if we treat a drug addict as a patient rather than as a criminal, we are basically using a different moral framework. We are using a more human approach. We are believing in the right of healthcare for everyone. We're believing in certain rights for certain individuals. And so we are implying a different moral framework. Now, with medicalization like everything else, it's a double-edged sword. There are really positive outcomes of medicalization like the one I just mentioned to you. When you make something, you turn something into an illness or into a medical problem, you're acknowledging, you're recognizing suffering, you're providing care, you're desigmatizing it. You know, thinking about the history of HIV AIDS and how for a painfully long time, so much stigma was attached to illness. And so much work had to be done in order to destigmatize it and acknowledge it as a viral condition, as a medical problem. Now, there are also other positive outcomes. When we decide something, we can improve the quality of life of someone. We can also give them a sense of recognition and relief with things like chronic fatigue syndrome. Patients with chronic fatigue syndrome spend years and years getting misdiagnosed and going from this specialist to another specialist. And everyone tells them that it's not in your head and there is no organic cause or organic thing to pinpoint as a diagnosis. And then when they get the diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome, it's not good news, but there's a lot of relief in getting a diagnosis. Because you're finally feeling like, okay, now at least I know what it is. Others are acknowledging my suffering and there might be something we can do about it and there will be care involved. So all of these things are positive outcomes of medicalization. But medicalization can also do something rather negative, which is sometimes when we medicalize something, we are basically implying that it's only a medical problem. And we are in a way de-socializing, de-politicizing it. We think about, say, the example of mental health, for example, which is my area. You can locate mental illness and mental health conditions in the individual brain, as Western Biomedicine does. And of course, you can medicate it and you can provide treatment and psychotherapy and medication, etc. But sometimes and often, often actually, mental health problems are embedded in broader socio-political and cultural and economic issues. You can't treat a problem that is, in effect, is caused by social inequality, by poverty, by unemployment, by racism, by traumas that come from the society and from the violence of political structures, for example.  You kind of dismiss the role of politics, the role of economy, the role of social context, and so that's a pretty dangerous thing that medicalization can do. So we have to always be aware of this double-edged effect of medicalization. And why does that matter when we think about this past year, when we think about the world we are entering now in the aftermath of the pandemic? Basically, all of these conversations come down to an ethical question.  If you look at the experience of the pandemic in different countries, by now we all know how different countries at different points really messed up. Some got it really right, some got it right and then got it wrong, some got it wrong from the beginning. Unfortunately, in the UK, this hasn't been an easy journey because of decisions that were made irresponsibly or late or for reasons other than the right reasons. In some countries like New Zealand, in Taiwan, in South Korea, you see a completely different kind of approach. And if you think about these different decisions that were made in the face of the pandemic, the differences come down to one question. How much we value our citizens' lives? It comes down to the feeling of how much is my life worth and for citizens to feel whether their life was worth the right decision, whether they had a right to get the right information, get the right initiatives and get the right frontline workers to get the right PPE for. So people have felt that their lives are to varying degrees in a way disposable. And that is an ethical question. It's not just a medical question. And this is why the question of medicalization comes in and is important because with the pandemic, in essence, one of the easiest things to do, or especially for justifying wrong policies, is to medicalize something. So, for example, with the pandemic, if you focus only on the virus and if you focus only on the science, which are absolutely necessary, and thankfully now we have the possibility of a vaccine. But a vaccine is not the only thing that can end a pandemic. It never has. We cannot end a pandemic just by vaccines. We also need all of those other structures that should have been there in the first place, the right decisions, decisions based on evidence, decisions based on expertise and knowledge, decisions based on the democratization of information, access to information and transparency, and also cultural changes. We've all become accustomed now to social distancing and wearing a mask and all of these behaviors that will take a while to get rid of, I think, when lockdown ends, our bodies will take a while to adjust again to being close to others. But the danger of medicalization when it comes to issues like a pandemic that are both biomedical and sociopolitical phenomenon is that it reduces everything to biology and therefore absolves governments and health structures from their responsibility. Now, when we medicalize stuff, we also are basically entering, with the pandemic, we're also entering into the realm of public health. So when we study pandemics and when we study the impact of pandemics, whether it's the mental health impact, whether it's the economic impact, whether it's the social impact of the pandemic, we are also creating a conversation with the field of public health, and therefore we are also creating new categories of personhood. We are creating new terms, such as high risk individual, spreaders, with the pandemic, we have spreaders. We have patients, we have cases, we have risk factors. And so this, in ways that we don't consciously and constantly think about, also has an impact on identities, on the way we identify with the world around us. Now, with COVID and with mental health, if you want to talk more specifically about COVID, in medical anthropology, we have a number of approaches, and two of the major approaches that we study with are these two. One is called critical medical anthropology. In critical medical anthropology, we look at the political economy of health. We look at the sociopolitical structures and contexts that shape the social life of an illness. We look at the social construction of illness. So we look at things such as social inequality, we look at things such as policies such as the way that the trajectory of an illness is tightly intertwined with relationships of power, of gender, of race, of class. And so in understanding this political economy, we basically ask how discourses of knowledge and social, shaped the social, are shaped by and shaped the social conditions of the possibility of an illness. So for example, if you think about the pandemic, the response issues that have been talked about in the UK for a very long time now. You have seen in headlines, headlines about how minorities and the ME patients have had a higher mortality rate. You have seen headlines about government response, the forces that clash between politics and science. The SAGE reports, the SAGE group, how science was articulated through politics and vice versa. What are the political agendas behind these decisions? You've also seen a lot of headlines about comparing different countries. How come New Zealand got it right and we didn't? How is it possible for the United States to get it wrong? You've also seen other headlines about secondary, quote unquote, deaths. For example, higher mortality rates with people who have chronic illnesses because their care has been disrupted because of the pandemic. Screening rates for cancer have dropped because the NHS was overloaded. And last but not least, you've heard and seen so much about the NHS. But the critical medical anthropology approach looks at not how the pandemic is causing these issues because it's not. It's in a way unmasking, revealing problems, structural problems that were already there. You're talking about over 10 years of defunding the NHS, the national health system. What does that mean? I mean, that sentence is, we say it just like that. But for over 10 years, we've been reducing the capacities of our healthcare system. Capacities that would be needed to respond to a pandemic. We even actually specifically, both in the UK and the US, reduced pandemic response capacities in a very tragic way. And so this is how the questions of political decisions, the questions of political agendas are not separate from your experience or my experience or our grandparents' experience of COVID. Everything is interconnected. We also asked how these socioeconomic forces shape the experience of COVID. What is the, you know, for the first time people have understood, for the first time in a long time, I mean, people have kind of started to pay attention to the fact that, you know, my body is not an island. We cannot just go and hoard, you know, toilet papers and think we are safe, because no one will be safe unless everyone is safe. Because right now with vaccinations, we will not be safe even if all of the UK gets vaccinated, unless every country gets vaccinated. And so these questions of inequality, these questions of distribution and access to healthcare and rights to access to healthcare become extremely permanent. And in terms of the NHS, for example, in critical medical anthropology, we study how these neoliberal policies have shaped not just the capacities of the NHS, which all of you by now know are under a lot of pressure, but also how it changes the life of a pandemic. In other words, in anthropology, when we say the social life of something, because everything has a social life. So when we say the social life of COVID, what we mean is how COVID is experienced, perceived, interpreted, even treated or cared for in different social contexts, in different political contexts, in different economic contexts. So in a way, that social life is somehow as important as the medical life of COVID. That we need to, the same way that we need to go for the virus, we also need to go for these problems such as racism, social inequality, and wrong policies. We have another approach in medical anthropology called interpretive medical anthropology, where, rather than looking at the political economy of illness and the social construction of illness, we look at the cultural and phenomenological meaning of experience. We look at subjective experiences. We look at how people experience an illness or the aftermath of an illness or recovery from an illness or the risk for an illness. So the focus will become on culture, which is a huge word. We can also discuss what we mean by culture in anthropology, because we usually use culture with an S as in plural. We have cultures. We don't have a single culture. Culture is not a static entity. It's constantly evolving and in the making. So in interpretive medical anthropology, we look at cultural formations that shake the experience of pandemic. We look at pain. We look at, for example, think about the experience of long COVID now, people who've been suffering from symptoms for months now. How cultural understandings and linguistic understandings shape their experience, how experience is articulated. At the same time, how cultural practices evolve through the experience of an illness. Why is it that in some countries we have protests against masks and in some other places we don't? What does that even mean to have a belief system that protests wearing masks? What are the trajectories of that way of thinking? So we focus on symbolics and on semantics and on the symbolic meaning of things. The emphasis is on meaning. What does it mean to go through something? And how do these frameworks really help us in tackling the world that's ahead of us? We're looking at a post-pandemic world where we have huge rates of unemployment, where waves of racism and sexism have been unmasked, unveiled, spoken about, have come to the surface. An awareness of the responsibility of individuals to be involved in politics, to have a voice, the flaws and premises of democracy, of globalization, of equality have all come to the surface. So we can't get through this stage, through this moment in history, with just the vaccine. We have to understand what this experience has brought to the surface and that's where anthropology comes in. In summer I was having an interview and I was basically, this was a debate about what will, I think it was early June, it was like a few months into the pandemic. And the debate will be forget when this ends, because the idea was that this will end soon. And part of my answer was that it's not going to end for a very long time. This is going to stay with us for, I'm sorry, but we will have a very difficult winter ahead of us. And my argument was that the thing that the pandemic has done is that it's medicalized politics. And in a way, it's politicized medicine. It's done something extraordinary, which is, it's brought these political debates into the world, into the world of health, health care and health debates. And it's also medicalized politics because our political philosophies and our political thinking now are are intensely impacted by immunological thinking. And thinking about language, how notions of security and immunity and risk sort of overlap between politics and health. And that's another conversation. So I want you to think about the experience of this past year of yourself and your families, friends, people who have contracted illness, people. Unfortunately, many of us have lost loved ones. The losses, the tragedies and the anxieties. I want you to think about all of that. And then think about it in a broader context of what it means for societies to go through that. What does that do to a society? What's the work ahead? What needs to be done in the next five, 10, 15, 20 years. There is a before and after. I mean, 2020 will always be known as the year that this happened. And how, how does it compare with other historical examples with the experience of, you know, the Spanish flu was, was mentioned a lot earlier in the pandemic, but also World War One, World War Two, 9-11. There are a lot of milestones that you can think about in terms of how they changed epistemologies in a mass scale. So I also want you to leave this room thinking about all the things that in the past we didn't think of as health issues. We usually don't think about gun violence as a health issue. Gun violence in the United States, unfortunately, let's also acknowledge another shooting just today in Atlanta. It's a disaster, it's a tragedy, but it's also a public health issue. It's not separate from questions of health. Racism is a public health issue because racism has a direct effect on how people have experienced COVID because we know that mortality rates and the severity of illness in among minorities and ethnic groups has been, has been different. We also know that the vaccine outtake is different among minorities. So racism cannot be separated from questions of health. Sexism is a public health issue, is a health issue, is interconnected with questions of health, because there is a reason why some diseases have been less researched. Endometriosis has for decades been ignored because women's pain has been ignored as part of their life. It's just, you know, just get on with it. Why is it that we have so much more research on say back pain. And on endometriosis, because back pain impacted the workforce. Historically, it impacted men more. It impacted women too, but they probably didn't weren't hurt. So there is all of these sort of intertwine issues at the intersection of which you, you come up with the experience of you face the questions that are related to health. And so domestic violence, racism, gun violence, sexism, all of these issues I want you to think about them in relation to how they impact health, how they shape our experience and understanding of health, and also how they have shaped our experience of this pandemic. I think, yeah, I think I just end by saying the, the, the, the, just want to emphasize also the importance of policy and how it's not an abstract issue. When we think about health policies, the same way that we think about climate change, or other other stuff. Replace health with other topics, and then you still get the same approach that anthropology offers. The importance of policy, not as an abstract entity outside of the realm of experience, but as something that is part and parcel of the way we experience life and how it's shaped the, the, the, how health then becomes a political matter. And so much of this, unfortunately, is absent from the training of medicine, like when, when you go through medical school, which is something I've done. You don't, you don't really hear much about these things. There are few places and there are opportunities around the world for, for an education that incorporates some of this, but it's not, it's not widespread. And I think that's, that's a shame, the same with engineering, the same with science, the same with all these other professions that can benefit from anthropological understandings of life and society and social phenomena, because then they will become better in their own field of expertise. I'll stop there and I'll open to questions because I think I talked too much. You probably have about five minutes for questions, and perhaps five minutes more, I'll double check if there's another session following on from this one on this particular Zoom webinar, but we have five minutes and there's been quite a lot of questions. You want me to read over the questions then. Yeah, if you want to have a look and then at the moment the students that are joining can't see the questions. So if you want to answer a particular one if you just click answer live, then they'll be able to see the questions that you're responding to. There's a question about you're an offer holder in MA social anthropology, you want to know more about research supervisor system at SELAS. I would appreciate if you specify what you exactly mean like the soup, you know, if you are, you will have a supervisor for your MA dissertation. Sometimes that person is the convener of the MA that you're studying sometimes not most of the time it is, and you will have regular meetings with that supervisor throughout term two and term three and summer, when you're working on your dissertation. I hope I hope that answered your question. I think whale Taha has asked a question that I'm going to that I would the answer that I hope to think it's still early for social anthropologist to examine the post pandemic world issues or phenomena. No, I think it's late post post pandemic. I think this is one of the issues that anthropology and social sciences in general have, because the perception of the outside world is that we have to wait for problems, and then call them to come and study them. Whereas my argument is anthropology should be part of the conversation from day one with immunology with science with genetics with public health. The same way that we go about addressing problems on the spot, because it's not a pandemic and a post pandemic and there's a line between them. How do you define post pandemic and post post pandemic. You can, you know, we are already post pandemic in the sense that the pandemic pandemic has already happened. You can also think about post pandemic, you know, 10 years after the pandemic so I think my short answer is no, it's not too early. And it's also late. In fact, there's a question about the difference between the MA route, the research route and the different pathways offered. Yes, so the website is in the making. Unfortunately, I'm sad to say that the page for medical anthropology actually is not live yet because we've transformed the program a lot quite a lot, but the website hasn't been as fast in catching up. So you in social anthropology, if you choose a program in social anthropology, you can you can choose a pathway in medical anthropology. You also have the option of choosing different MA programs in future global futures and climate change, sustainability, anthropology of food, anthropology of migration and diasporas. So these are different programs. The medical anthropology masters used to be a program, but now it's a pathway within the social anthropology program that's purely administrative. The point is if you want to study on medical anthropology, you choose medical anthropology, you check that box, it's called a pathway rather than a program but that's really irrelevant. And, you know, the and the research route if you if you do an M res and research, that's the route that goes. That's if you want to pursue a PhD. It would be the first year with your master's degree and then three years, it's called three plus one, the three years of the PhD so that depends on whether you want to do a PhD I hope that answered your question. Any of you surveillance, and it's explicit entrenchment due to the pandemic. Very good question this could be, this could be the topic of the whole other session on data, in fact, I was an hour ago I was on clubhouse, and I was part of a debate on AI and on data.  And this this data will go into crowds, and I will not have any control over it and so all these ethical questions about data and about surveillance are extremely pertinent to the pandemic and it's part of one of the many issues that that that is included when we talk about those pandemic issues that's a very good question.omatic. How does the medical anthropologist approach. The difference between medical anthropology and social anthropology is that medical anthropologists have, you know, have a sharper focus on understanding the medical aspects of things as well. I'm personally also a physician. Most medical anthropologists are not a physician, but one of the things you should do as a medical anthropologist is that you also have to educate yourself about the medical side of things. And that's what good medical anthropology is. So you have to be able to converse in that language. You have to be able to engage with biomedical knowledge forms and biomedical epistemologies. With social anthropology, we do a broader approach. Medical anthropology has a sharper focus on the health issues and its studies topic that are more health related in a way. But health in the broader sense, as I said, you know, racism is a health issue. We're not just talking about illness and disease. What is the difference between medical sociology and medical anthropology? That's a very good question. Is the difference between sociology and anthropology? So sociology and anthropology in a way share a lot of, they have another commonalities. And part of that is because they use the same social theories. They use the same conceptual frameworks. They use the same theoretical approach. The way they differ is in two ways. One is historically, they've had very different trajectories. They've had very different histories throughout the 20th century. And those distinct histories, which we have no time to go into, have kind of shaped different characters for the two disciplines. But the core difference, the core difference is methodology. Anthropologists use ethnography as a research method, among other methods, but ethnography is the key research method in anthropology. With sociology is more about surveys and larger scale studies. Sociology relies more on, and these are generalizations because there are sociologists who are also ethnographers. There's a lot of overlap and risk loss. But sociology historically relied more on quantitative data on surveys, et cetera. And anthropology relied more on ethnography, qualitative research. But right now, honestly, the deadlines are blurred because a lot of medical sociology programs and colleagues do the same things. We collaborate, depends on university, differs from university to university because the historical legacies shape how the programs work differently. What about medical politics, which I see they study at King's College London? I don't know what program you're referring to, I heard. If you want to specify that. So we had a war in Croatia when I was a child and I have experience with it. We have to stabilize the economy in the most possible and you can see the question. I studied Chinese and Chinese are now attached. Can we fight that only by educating from person? I'm not sure what the question is. I agree with everything you're saying. If you'd like to ask a more specific question, please do so. Thank you so much for this. What methods have medical anthropologists used for ethnography during the pandemic and lockdown? This is a very good question. There's been a lot of debates going on. Ethnography has so many different branches and one of those branches is digital ethnography and virtual ethnography. There's a lot of literature on how they differ. And a lot of ethnography is also about participant observation, not just interviews, but also being part of an experience, being not just an observer, but a participant observer, meaning becoming a member of that quote unquote tribe that you're studying. And with the pandemic, there's so many studies going on with, for example, there's a fantastic project at U Penn, it was a Pennsylvania called Pandemic Journaling Project. And basically worldwide, they're collecting people's diaries, they're asking people to write diaries and journal entries and they're analyzing narratives. That's also ethnography. There's a lot of ways in which you can do discourse analysis, you can analyze what's going on in the media, in the news, in art, in literature, in cultural productions. And so people have been doing a lot of that lately. There's a lot of work with photography, with writing, with poetry, and of course with patients. We have master students in our medical and college program who are writing their dissertations on healthcare workers, on frontline workers, on their experience and the mental health impact on them. Some are writing about patients who've had COVID. So there's still a lot you can do. In other words, ethnography is not necessarily about traveling somewhere far away. You can do ethnography at home too. Sorry, we probably just have time for one more question, and then we'll bring the session to close. The answer to this question is yes. Let me choose a question. I don't know which one to choose. Just while you're choosing a question, that'll give you a little chance to read them. Just for anyone who has on the call and who has any questions just about the application process or admission or how that works, please feel free to email. I'll put my email in the chat. And if you have a question relating to the session, you can also email me and I'll forward your email on and make sure that it gets to the right person. Am I still taking one question or not? Yeah. There is a good question here from Elena. What are the usual career paths after an main anthropology? Options are unlimited. Anthropologists either end up in academia. You can become an academic like us. You can become a practitioner in whatever field that you're interested in and apply your anthropological knowledge there. You can be an engineer and apply your anthropological knowledge there. There is a field called applied anthropology. So there's a whole applied range of professions where you can be a practitioner with an anthropological approach. There is also a lot of consultancy work, advisory work, people going to policy, many people going to NGOs, organizations, and some people start up their own business. You can, and there are different fields in anthropology. There is business anthropology. There's corporate anthropology. There's medical anthropology. So it's really a wide range of career options that you can, if you write to us, we can discuss this in more detail. Perfect. I think we will unfortunately have to draw the session to a close, which we've got so many good questions still in the chat. But thank you so much to everybody for joining us. I've popped my email in the chat. Do feel free to get in touch and we can make sure that they get to the department, to the relevant person and that we can get all of the answers that you need. So yes, feel free to follow up. You'll be able to watch the recording back and hopefully about a week's time alongside all of the other taster sessions that have been running in this week. But thank you very much for joining us and we hope to see some of you at SWAT soon. Thank you so much. Thank you and good luck with your applications for those of you who are applying. Thank you.


Here are the local group galaxies we saw in this segment. The local group is part of a larger structure known as the local volume. We'll explore this local volume in our next segment.


Stop referring to yourself as a sinner. If you've been redeemed, you're not a sinner anymore. You are held accountable for your mistakes, but that's not who you are. You mustn't identify with that part of you anymore. Yes, when we were not saved before Christ, of course we must admit that I'm a sinner. I need you to save me.   That's what the work of the Holy Spirit does in you, transforms your identity.  You may sometimes allow that old identity, who you aren't anymore, to have some influence, but that's not you. You're fighting against who you used to be, not who you are now. We must come to the place where we recognize who we are and him.


Hey guys, today we are making jackfruit tacos. This is one of our favorite easy recipes to make. They're just like carnitas, they look and feel and taste just like carnitas. Street tacos, they're easy to make. You can make them a million different ways and they're vegan, they're beautiful, they're filling and they are fun to make. So we're gonna use jackfruit as kind of the base and you can use a real whole jackfruit if you want. You wanna get ambitious like that. Super easy, we're using 20 ounce cans. You can find them at the grocery store. Drain the cans and put the jackfruit onto baking sheet. We're gonna bake at 350 degrees Fahrenheit so I think that's about 175 degrees Celsius for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, take them out, put them on the counter to cool for just a little bit. This is where we're gonna pull apart the pieces of jackfruit. It's pretty easy with a couple of force. You can really get the look and feel of pulled pork. It's incredible. If you wanna save yourself five or 10 minutes of pulling these jackfruit pieces apart and if you have a Vitamix or really any blender, I guess, throw them in and blend on the lowest speed you have for just a couple seconds. That's gonna get you that really nice pulled pork look and feel. The other nice thing about using the Vitamix is it does a really good job of pulling apart the seeds and ends which are kinda tricky to do with two forks. You can do it, just it takes a little dexterity. We'll do two batches. You don't wanna do too much here because then it'll kinda get mushy. Probably one batch per can. So we're gonna spread it on the cookie sheet and add barbecue sauce all over. Do your best, kinda spread it around, put it back in the oven for another 10 minutes.  Now we're trying to get the barbecue sauce all the way around and then spread it back out again. We're gonna put it in the oven for another 10 minutes and while we're doing that, we can make the slaw. Two ways to make the slaw. There's the really easy way. Take some cabbage, chop it up, add a little mayo, mayonnaise. That's the quick method. The extra special method is to make it the day before. So chop up your slaw. Of course we're using our Vitamix again is gonna make it really quick. Variable speed one for just a couple seconds. You might have to put the big pieces back in. But the extra special version is vinegar, sugar, green onions and overnight in the fridge. With that last five minutes or so of making our jackfruit, we're gonna make queso. We're gonna add one cup of milk. We're using almond milk. Half a cup of almonds, half a cup of cashews, quarter cup of nutritional yeast, one and a half teaspoons of kosher salt, half a teaspoon of garlic powder, one teaspoon of onion powder or sort of like any onion based seasoning and crushed red pepper to taste. We like eight to 10 shakes per batch. One whole red bell pepper. Throw everything in, turn it up. Use that soup setting, five minutes, high speed. Let it go. If you don't have a Vitamix, set it up and throw it on the stove top to sort of heat and reduce. While that queso is getting warm, we'll get our toppings ready. So avocado, green onions, a little cilantro if you're into that. And then if you timed it just right, you're gonna have slaw, queso, pulled barbecue jackfruit ready to go all at the same time. And then the fun part. Today we're using corn tortillas. We put them on the stove top for a minute just to kind of warm them up. Add a generous portion of that jackfruit. We're gonna put the slaw, a little bit of our queso, barbecue sauce, avocado, cilantro and pickled onions. You'll probably find these in the store. We made them super easy. They're pickled in a jar with water, sugar and red wine vinegar. One trick to get the jackfruit to taste really crispy and even more like genuine barbecue. Use the broiler for a couple of minutes to kind of get those tops crispy, those ends. You wanna get really extra crunchy onions, we thought. Or we don't have a deep fryer but deep fried avocado would make these gourmet. Guys, jackfruit tacos is on our weekly rotation. We make them all the time, we love them. Add them to yours and if you haven't subscribed to our channel already, definitely do that. Hit that bell to get notified. If you appreciate videos like this, hit that thumbs up and thank you so much for watching. We'll see you in the next one.


So, welcome again everyone to the closing session and today is a special closing session because it is not only the closing session of the conference but it is also the 8th anniversary of the Libraoffice project. Exactly 6 hours ago and 10 years and 6 hours ago we launched the first press release to announce the birth of the Libraoffice Foundation but we will cover that later. First, thank you to Tirana in general, to the team that contributed to organize this conference and as usual it was a fantastic event. And the panel is a slide, so Zin, Anjudo, Redon and Sofi and Mariana. They are not officially a part of the team, is there anyone else missing? Redon that has contributed to the same level, what I am saying of the conference and it is a fantastic event to understand what the local event in Albania can be. These people, we have had wonderful reviews from organizers and I will consider based on how we bring it in a month when we will probably be back in Albania. Anjudo, if you scroll down a little bit, before... There is sofi, at the end of the slide. At the end of Sofi. Ah, Sofi, ok. Send the second address please. And these other people in the team, they are classmates. Thanks, thanks. They will probably be in September. We will also have a conference, which is an easy list from the conference. Ok, not so easy to do some remembrance of the day. So eight years ago, as I said, the press release and the articles covering the announcement I have collected 20 of them and the titles, not the articles. The articles because they put on a box. Firstly, each of the journalists arrives with improvements over open office. And they are in, to be fair to everyone, they are in alphabetical order of magazines so there is not anything specific. We will try to do that. And make sure to follow that.