So this is the part of the day two keynotes where I'm supposed to look out in the audience and count you, and then point out that half of you left your buddies at the bar last night, I think. For those of you that made it, welcome, good morning, thank you.  They make this event possible. This is not something that we make any money on. So we are really thankful for everything that they do for us, for you. They allow the community to get together. They allow you to have the learning experiences that you're having today that you had yesterday. So please, just take a minute, talk to the sponsors, let them know you appreciate it. So today, what I'm going to talk about is a little bit of a history lesson, as well as a little bit of a view into the future of the Cloud Foundry platform, the Cloud Foundry family of projects, and talk a little bit about some of the philosophies that the project teams have embodied for years now, and how they relate to a lot of the newer more, the newer open source projects that are part of the larger Cloud Native open source ecosystem. And I titled the Talk Building Bridges, and we'll come back to that. So history lesson. Can anybody see that? Yeah, 2009. Not that long ago, right? Nine years. But there were some interesting things happening in the technology space back then. Netbooks were the rage. Anybody here have a netbook? Yeah, a couple of you. They were the rage. Also, our mobile phones started to do things like have maps in them. That's pretty cool. Anybody here not actually walk around Basil with the phone out trying to go, I think we're going this way, right? Become a very different part of our life. The app store became very important. It wasn't just the Apple app store. There was a number of different app stores for different device platforms. That became the new way to think about software delivery for consumers, for individuals. But also, at VMware, we managed to find the oldest logo we could possibly find for VMware. At VMware, a project started that was called B29. This is the beginnings of the idea of creating the Cloud Foundry platform as a service product that we know today, the project that we know today that's been incorporated into Pivotal Cloud Foundry, SAP Cloud Platform, IBM's product. Everybody's product is based on this original idea from back in 2009. That's not really that long ago if we're talking about history, but I guess in tech industry, it's like a month is the equivalent of a decade these days. We really do have a very long history as a community, as a project. Even before it became open source, there's a deep rich history behind the project. Fast forward to today, Abby yesterday was talking a bit about the challenge that the enterprise has today. We're at an inflection point. We know that most organizations now are focused on adopting Cloud, adopting Cloud native technologies, whether it's on-prem, off-prem, public Cloud, mixing and matching. It's a bit of a mess for them. It's really hard, actually, because you have to get things from your vendors. I love all of the vendors in the room. Clearly you're trying to solve these problems for your customers. But it is very difficult because you also have internal team pressure. You also have third-party open source projects that are confusing. There's a lot of things going on. We have tried, as the Cloud Foundry community, to help at least make the part that we touch a little bit easier. This isn't me. These are the contributors. These are the committers. These are the project leads that actually build the software. They spend a lot of time thinking about, what does it mean to create enterprise-ready software that's pretty close to productization? The downstream distributions are able to productize, that someone can use directly as open source and get a lot of value from. They focus on things like security, scaling, integration, ease of use. Really ease of use is about that developer experience. That's the haiku. Here's my source code. I'm on the cloud for me. I don't care how. The other thing that the community focuses on are these three areas of, I guess, philosophy. We're a super-fast project. Abby talked about that. We release frequently. Large amount of code change constantly happening. The architecture evolves constantly, and we'll talk a bit more about that. There's a lot of interoperability. There's two different ways to think about interoperability. One of them is to say, does it conform to standards? Does it use CNI, the container networking interface? Does it use different standards that are applicable to the architecture? The other way to think about it, though, is is it able to be well-integrated into the traditional enterprise environment? Because the way to think about software or any technology that's been deployed inside of a large enterprise is that you're probably never going to turn it off. We need to be able to integrate these things well together. The last is innovation. Innovation is something that you don't design innovation into a process. I think what you do is you design the opportunity to take advantage of moments of innovation that occur. Those are to me the three ethos that the community of contributors, community of committers have across all of the projects within the Cloud Foundry Foundation. The title of my talk is Building Bridges, not in a literal way. Everybody knows what this bridge is, right? Yeah, the Golden Gate Bridge. Golden Gate Bridge is interesting for me. I don't live in the San Francisco area, I live on the East Coast, and so I've kind of been learning the San Francisco geography. It's an interesting bridge for me because it connects two really different communities. One of them is the city of San Francisco, and then across the bridge is Marin County. And for quite some time, there was no connection between the two. You had to go all the way around this enormous bay to kind of get from one of these communities to the other. But when they agreed to build that bridge, the economy started to grow a bit more between the two. And it's a powerful thing connecting two different communities. Now that applies to the open source world as well. We don't have to talk about physical bridges, we can talk about metaphorical bridges. We can talk about collaboration amongst communities, amongst projects, amongst teams. And it's something that is key to the Cloud Foundry Foundation's community and how we've evolved since 2015, and even before that. So here's a little bit of a history lesson. Before the Cloud Foundry Foundation existed, I was not involved in this project, this community. I think I had written a service broker back in about early 2014. Before you could do asynchronous, it was a little difficult, but I got involved. And when I joined in 2015, there were a few integrations that had already occurred. Let's call them bridges. One of them was that, of course, it was using Linux containers way back in 2011. Remember before Docker even existed as a word. So 2014, the idea of being able to push a Docker image into the application runtime, or what we just called Cloud Foundry back then, was a key part of the system. We were starting to explore what it meant to move beyond just the CF push experience of code. So fast forward a little bit. Let's talk about some of the, I guess, the last two years worth of bridges that have been built. So for those of you that are familiar with the Open Container Initiative, it was an effort that was created inside the Linux Foundation in order to try to rationalize some of the tension in the tech industry around Linux containers between Docker, CoreOS had their rocket runtime, there were debates about what process was going to start, what process and who was in charge of watching, what PID. And so the Open Container Initiative was really about hosting this core library called Run C, which was at the heart of the Docker engine. And also to create an image specification. So Cloud Foundry has the distinction and the honor of being the second platform to adopt Run C after Docker. So we were basically the first ones to say, you know what? That's a great standard. Let's adopt it. Fast forward a little further, November 16. We start supporting the container networking interface. This is an early standard, but we realize that, yeah, we're running applications in containers and we need to find ways to work with underlying software-defined networking systems. And CNI seemed like the right approach. Little further, we spin out the Open Service Broker API, open that up so that the Kubernetes community or any other community, all the public cloud providers can begin to take advantage of that abstraction that's been so powerful for Cloud Foundry over the years, we open that up. And you've probably seen demos of whether it's Microsoft showing off their service broker and how you can consume it from Kubernetes using the service catalog extension or whether you can consume it from Cloud Foundry application runtime. Other providers have also demoed similar things. It's become very powerful. So that was a bridge that we built. In May of 17, there was a project called Kubo that was announced. It was a joint project between VMware, Pivotal, and Google, which was how do we use the power of Bosch to actually deploy Kubernetes, manage it, upgrade it. That became the Cloud Foundry container runtime. Another bridge was built. That was our first step as a community in actually adopting or embracing Kubernetes. I'm going to kind of go a little bit faster through some of these, but we've done a lot of different things. So you're going to see a demo from the project teams that are focused on the Windows technology stack, the Microsoft technology stack. But one of the things that they did was they worked on WinC, which is how do you take RunC and bring it to the Windows platform. We also have already integrated Envoy Proxy, Istio integrations currently being tested. Our community is helping with use cases that the Istio ecosystem needs to understand around scalability. And then Kubernetes is starting to get a little hotter. You saw two announcements yesterday. Abby talked a little bit about two of the incubating projects. I'll explain them a little bit further in a few minutes, but clearly Kubernetes has become the standard for the container abstraction, right? Infrastructure as Linux containers. And so it's really important that we continue to explore different avenues for integrating with, working with, and allowing Cloud Foundry to consume that infrastructure. Little further, container deintegration has begun. And then more recently, if you haven't seen the news, I think this is perhaps was a bit underplayed. It's perhaps one of the biggest moments in the platform as a service space in quite some time. Buildpacks, which was originally an idea from Heroku, were incorporated into Cloud Foundry. They're part of the power of that CF push experience. That CF push experience, though, started to diverge from the Heroku experience since we had this forking of the Buildpack community. With the Cloud Native Buildpacks project, we're bringing Heroku and Cloud Foundry ecosystems back together, and we're doing it in a way that's going to allow the power of Buildpacks to work in any OCI-compatible platform. Now that's an amazing combination. And I say we. I'm talking about the broader Cloud Native community. That's an amazing combination to see happen. It's a great moment in time for those of us that understand the power of the platform as a service model. So we do this, though, and I spend a lot of time in different regions around the world. I do different enterprises. I talk to press. I talk to analysts. And there's always this kind of this nudge they want to give you. Hey, there's a new project. Why haven't you incorporated that yet? And then I'm talking to the analysts and press right down here. You should already have it done. And we say, well, you know what? Let me explain. It's a balancing act. We have enormous corporations that run their payment processing systems on the Cloud Foundry platform. We have so many different businesses that have chosen the platform and the technology to help reinvent their business, to build the new version of their business on top of, that they expect this to be an evolution. Not a gut-wrenching revolution every time there's a new capability or a new project that starts in the broader open source community. So what our committers have done, what our contributors have done is they've been very thoughtful about that balancing act between we need to embrace innovation throughout the ecosystem. But on the other hand, we need to do it carefully, right? I mentioned Istio earlier, but it's a good example. It's an amazing project. It has some amazing ideas behind it. But we need to do a couple things. One, figure out what that developer experience is going to look like, because it can't be the raw Istio experience. The second is that it actually needs to be mature enough that we can run it in production at a large scale. And so our community needs to lean in there and help. So that's the balancing act that we're constantly struggling with, right? On one side is the, hey, new and shiny, and the other is responsibility for all of you that actually use the software. And I think we do it particularly well. Now, there's a book that talks about some of this, Innovator's Dilemma. Most of you have probably at least heard of it, if you haven't read it yourselves. And frequently people discuss the dilemma itself, which is you get stuck, you don't want to change, and the dilemma is a very hard dilemma. But Clayton Christensen, the author, he actually offered the answer to this dilemma, which is that you don't focus on making a plan, you focus on learning, right? The more you can be a learning team, or in our case a learning community, the more exploration that you can have, the more likely it is that you can continue to evolve successfully and respond to changes in your environment. And we do that particularly well. But I think we embody that as a community. We do that through lots of different methods, right? We have our extensions projects, we have lots of different experiments. These happen maybe as a formal effort, or sometimes we just have a pair of developers that we're working on, let's say, the cloud controller that step aside and they spike out an idea. That happens all the time. But we also have a much broader ecosystem that we're part of. All of the interesting projects that exist across this ecosystem represent opportunities for the Cloud Foundry community to draw in innovation, to make sure that it's ready and well integrated. And then to provide that through all the downstream distributions and to all the end users. It's a pretty powerful model. And it really does require that all of the committers or the maintainers and the project leads spend a lot of time listening to users. So for those of you that are users, I have a request. If you don't spend time talking to the project teams, talking to the project leads, please do. Because they love to get information from users. It's critical. If you're buying it from a vendor, buying some Cloud Foundry technology from a vendor, absolutely have conversations with the vendor. But get involved in the upstream. And you could do that simply by paying attention to new feature proposals and giving us your real opinions. Anybody know where this is? I guess this is a difficult Q&A spot, right? La Sagrada Familia in Barcelona. I love this picture because it's a shot straight up into one of the craziest cathedrals on the planet. The reason why I have this photo up here is that there's a saying in open source. It goes way back to the beginning of the open source movement that was, there's the cathedral, which is the world of proprietary. And the bizarre, which is the world of open source. And it's kind of set up by the originator as a bit of a choice. You have to choose the cathedral route for proprietary software or you could choose the bizarre route. And the bizarre route's gonna have a lot of innovation and be crazy and exciting. I think actually that you can combine the two. You can be thoughtful about what becomes ready for production, what's released to the collective at the same time. That you can allow for innovation, that you can allow for experiments, that you can allow for the larger open source ecosystem to provide you with inspiration. And that's what we try to do. And I think that La Sagrada Familia is a great example of some crazy ideas coming together in a way that also becomes a cathedral. So we do this thinking about different personas generally. And if you talk to anyone who helps build the Cloud Foundry software, they're really thinking about two different types of people. And maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but that's okay. I'm on the stage, they're not right now. So I'm gonna oversimplify. You have application developers who build applications. And I also include what I call application operators. The people that get software from someone else like an ISV and have to deploy and manage it. Because there are some similar and highly overlapping use cases there. On the other side, we have platform operators. These are the people that actually deploy and manage the platform. Now, if you're using Cloud Foundry from a managed service provider, those teams work for them. But they both matter. They both matter quite a bit to our community of contributors and developers. The other thing that is really, really apparent is that if you haven't already figured this out, we live in a multi-obstraction world, right? VMs serve use cases, container is a service, or Kubernetes serves a use case. Platform as a service is exceptionally valuable. We're starting to see a lot more functions as a service. This is the world that our users live in. And there are some problems that have to be solved because of all of these platforms, all of these abstractions. And last year we did a survey of the Cloud Foundry users. It's an imperfect, it's a user survey. But it was clear that the overwhelming percentage, the overwhelming majority of Cloud Foundry users were either already saying, yeah, I want the Cloud Foundry PaaS, and I either already have or want to use Kubernetes with it. Now, there's lots of different ways that we could stack these two technologies, but the fact that we want to integrate them, I think, is particularly important. Now, today, or I'd say actually last year on this stage, we had integrated the Cloud Foundry container runtime or the Kubo project into the foundation. We announced it, we said, hey, this is important. This is the first embrace of Kubernetes. It's how you can deploy and manage Kubernetes. It's been now commercialized by Pivotal, VMware, I think Swisscom's now commercializing it. So great progress there, it continues to evolve. That project continues to support each new version of Kubernetes as it comes out, provide zero downtime upgrades of it. It became a certified distribution as an open source distribution of Kubernetes. And it became a pretty powerful tool that our community has available to it. But there's other ways that you can think about stacking the architecture. And so when Abby talked about some of the new projects, that's really what we're referring to. So if we focus on that application runtime, the CF push experience, inside of it, there is a container scheduler. Now, one of the options that has now been opened up or that's going to be opened up as the Irini project evolves is to have the option to use Kubernetes as the underlying container scheduler. That's what that project is all about. We also have this powerful tool called Bosch, does amazing things. And then we've got Kubernetes. And we talked about how Bosch can deploy Kubernetes. But maybe we could take some of the software that's being developed with Bosch deployment in mind, run it through a process of containerizing it, and deploy it into Kubernetes using Docker images and Helm. That's what the CF containerization project is all about. It takes release, manifests, builds Docker images, Helm charts, and deploys it into Kube. But I focus on developers predominantly. Who I think about most frequently. Those two projects really are, they're very interesting. They're very important. But they're predominantly for either the platform operator or the vendor that's packaging the product. Because it has to do with how you want to stack these different technologies. And as long as both the platform as a service and the Kubernetes experience are both exposed, that's a really powerful combination. And so the developers or application operators, what they want is they want to see this be particularly well integrated. And there are a lot of efforts that aren't being announced. Because they're just simply efforts that are occurring within existing projects that are dealing with the question of, can we do shared networking? That's sort of the initial Istio integration. If we get Istio integrated, that starts to work. Then there's an x step, which we need to say, OK. Let's get Istio running on the Kubernetes side. And let's make sure that we're sharing policy and traffic and flow. But also there's synchronized service catalog, which we saw a demo yesterday on this stage. The purpley project that SAP introduced and has gotten a lot of industry support around is all about synchronizing service catalogs. Not just having a shared spec for how backing services are communicated with, but actually having the same service catalog and same awareness of different services that have been initiated. Aggregate telemetry, logging and metrics pipelines, common identity. These are all really basic things, but our community is digging into them. And they're taking the right steps, the right initial steps, and the right future steps to be able to provide that consistent experience for a developer that wants to work with the two different abstractions together. I think that's really important to the whole industry. So you saw this slide yesterday from Abby. This is just a sampling of today some of the projects that are embedded inside of the Cloud Foundry platform or collection of technologies. They represent some of the most interesting projects that exist in the Cloud Native landscape today. But in the end, they're components of a bigger system that needs to be built. And that bigger system is what Cloud Foundry is providing. So I like to say that we're on a journey as an ecosystem, as a community. We've been on that journey for a number of years. New projects are going to show up. We need to embrace them when they're useful. We need to integrate them when they're ready. And we need to help get them ready. That's our responsibility as users, as contributors, and as committers in the Cloud Foundry ecosystem. Let's take this journey together and really focus on building bridges between different parts of this broader ecosystem. Because that's how the end users in the end get the most benefit. That's how we get to take advantage of the innovation across this broader landscape. And that's how I think we get to really continue to evolve and solve the problem that the CF community has been so focused on solving, making it easy for businesses and other organizations to be good at software. So with that, I want to say thank you very much. Yesterday, Abby walked through a couple of bits and news. There was some really fascinating stuff, a few more bits and news. So I'm going to go through a couple of items. So the first is a couple of years ago, we launched our developer training and certification program. We've been blessed by being able to be involved with about 17,000 people worldwide so far. Very proud of that. Lots of education happening out in the market. And this doesn't include all the amazing training programs that a lot of the systems integrators and other providers are actually doing on a regular basis. This is just purely the foundation's ability to touch people. And so that's grown really well. But Pivotal announced, and it was in the press release yesterday, and we're particularly happy to see this, that the work that we, as well as some of the systems integrators and the volunteers that have helped produce this content, Pivotal will be adopting that as kind of step one in the learning path and step one in the certification path for the Pivotal Cloud Foundry suite of educational materials. So we want to thank them for that. Second thing, Any9s, amazing community member that's been around in the community for quite some time. They, of course, work with Cloud Foundry Open Source, but they've got a great partnership with Pivotal. And they wanted me to let you know that they've recently released a new version of the Any9s data services with the latest Pivotal tiles, or they've redesigned the Pivotal tiles. So support on-demand provisioning. They're now using the PCF ops director. It's supposed to install much faster now. So go talk to them. They've got a booth down there. The third announcement that we wanted to help support here was from GrapeUp. So what I'd like to do is I'd like to introduce Daniel Heckman, who's the head of Enterprise Business Development for the Americas for GrapeUp.  Good deal. Thanks for coming. So you said you have an announcement of some sort, right? I do. OK. You want to talk about it? Definitely, definitely. All right, cool. I'm going to put your slide up. Awesome, awesome. OK. So yeah, Cloud Booster. Maybe some of you already had the pleasure of having a Cloud Booster vanilla latte at booth number 15. So the announcement is that from yesterday, technically, GrapeUp is offering its own distribution of Cloud Foundry in the form of Cloud Booster. So Cloud Booster is an open cloud platform that allows enterprise companies to build, run, operate any workload in the cloud. That's our ambition. So our goal is to help mid-sized companies embrace open source technology and have a curated experience and be supported by, in this case, GrapeUp and our 10-plus years experience of supporting cloud-native software. As you can see here, we've integrated leading open source technologies and fused them together with what we call Cloud Booster Glue to have a platform that will be able to run 12-factor applications, Cots software, and so on, and so on. That's what we're doing. Outstanding. Well, thank you very much for coming up here and letting us know about that. Thank you, Chip. Cool. All right. Do stop by booth number 15.


Hello everyone and welcome. Hello. We're going to do the show in this voice today Yeah, I'm getting old and I watched Haven last time. Oh, yeah Haven. How's that Haven's back? Yeah Still at it last last half.  I like it. Yeah, my wife's huge Haven fan I don't know if I've seen enough of it to give an opinion that oh, it's good. It's worth it's worth your time I'm in and I know I know how it goes. The lists are always way too long I have such a list of things to watch But I need to get some good sci-fi like stuff in me Well, it's based on the Stephen King short story. So it's not really fully Stephen King But there's some nice references here and there especially in the opening credits. I love me some Stephen King. Yeah All right, well enough of what did Tom watch last night while his wife was watching the voice. Let's do daily tech new show Okay Google, how can I support daily tech news show? You can show your support for daily tech news show by donating to their patreon visit patreon.com Slash aster tech. That's patreon.com Slash a c e d t e c t This is the daily tech news for Wednesday, October 14th 2015 I'm Tom Merritt joining me today because it's Wednesday. Mr. Scott Johnson Man about frog pants host of the instance the morning stream and more. How are you sir? I'm fine I love when nas days. They're my favorite days of the week because that's the day I am educated about technology in ways that I'm not normally educated about them It's because I come on here and I listen to you pontificate about stories that matter to us Pontificate is exactly what I do. Let me tell you a thing Scott Johnson Now actually today, we're both gonna pontificate a little bit. I hope it's insightful about Input devices and whether we can get along without screens or not an interesting story in the Wall Street Journal about this that we're gonna Riff on but let's start with some headlines A jury in the United States State of Wisconsin has ruled that Apple infringed a patent on improving processor Inficiency efficiency maybe even efficiency Held by the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation Reuters reports apples a7 a8 and a8 x processors were all found to infringe That means that the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation a k a wharf wharf You need to keep your security going Anyway, they can they can sue again about the a9 or at least put pressure on Apple to settle The trial will now determine the damages which u.s. District Judge William Connolly has ruled could be up to 862.4 million dollars. You're gonna see that line in the headlines doesn't mean they will be find 862.4 million dollars, but it could be as much as that You think apples appeal that ruling Scott. Yeah, I think that they might I think they might this was some closed door 2 million dollar damages kind of thing we might never hear about it It would just get swept under the rug But when you're pushing potentially near a billion dollars you're you're talking about a pretty big stack of cash and also You know a pretty big bruise to the eye if they can't win an appeal here Like there's no way Apple doesn't appeal this whether they ultimately persevere or not I don't know that's a lot of their chips and that's in a lot of devices and a lot of Sort of you know, I don't know how much it gets to the general public. That's a lot of PR headaches So yeah, they'll appeal it and Apple Apple has a tradition of fighting to the end, right? the wharf also sued Intel and Intel settled You know I until didn't settle right away, but eventually before it got to a trial Intel's like, okay fine Let's let's figure this out and we don't know what that settlement was lots of rumors about it But they were willing and this is Intel right they're not gonna give in that easy either So Apple probably knew they were gonna lose this but they're just gonna I think what they like to do is make it a precedent That they have a big pile of cash and if you're gonna assume about a patent You're gonna spend a lot of money doing it. Yeah, their pockets are deep Well AT&T is close to launching a feature called number sync Which would allow its customers to share one phone number among many devices It's just pretty interesting recode reports to the feature has been tested under the codename Cascade since it's last year or since last year AT&T expects it to launch on its first device fairly soon and said many Existing smartphones should be able to support number sync with software upgrades though It doesn't look that they've gone into detail as to what those devices are But I would hope I would assume Android devices will maybe even Apple devices. No, maybe. Yeah. No, there's the basically they're saying there's no reason any device shouldn't be able to support this We're gonna start with one soon and we'll keep rolling it out to more of them. I Immediately want to get greedy though and say, okay, this is great if I'm an AT&T customer And maybe I have I want to have a couple of phones. I'm not one of the people who does this, but a lot of people do carry two phones and And and so I want to have the number shared across them or shared across other devices maybe that I could put a phone number on and I get I get that and I guess I wouldn't want to have multiple carriers But for some reason immediately in my head I was like what if I could have one phone number across multiple carriers, which I imagine that's never gonna happen Maybe for really good reasons to probably not but that does sound like the more appealing Thing I wish they were working on but I the only thing I would say is I don't That's doesn't apply to me at all like this doesn't interest me in terms of wanting to have multiple devices and having the same phone number on them one phone is good enough for me But they must have some data to suggest this that this is a feature people want or have been at least asking Oh, yeah I mean and there's plenty of services that do this already But they don't do it at the telephone company level So there's always a little bit of bugginess to them There's a little man, you know, maybe a little bit of lag or delay and and what AT&T can promise and we'll see if number sync Actually delivers on this promise is seamless like your phone number is on that phone And you don't have to switch it back and forth. You don't have to forward it. You don't have to mask it each phone natively has that number on the on the carrier's network Interesting. Yeah, we'll see. I don't know to phone Tom will call you. Yeah, Tommy two hands He's got phone in each hand smart lock maker August announced new products including home kit support for their new version of their main lock Meaning you can tell Siri to unlock your door a $79 accessory keyboard for those friends who don't have smartphones And a $199 doorbell with a video camera It also announced a platform to allow several home delivery maintenance and cleaning services To allow service providers entry into homes when you're not there with your approval, of course Products can be ordered today for shipping in four to eight weeks, but most people are Chatting about this idea of like oh, so Sears is gonna come and repair my washer or deliver me a new laundry machine And and I could just let them in with my August lock. I guess That's not a that's an assumption I would be slow to make that I would want the Sears guys bringing my new couch over to just have Carp launch while I'm not there like that is a very strange assumption to me And I think you know, I wonder how much of it is an overreaction Because plenty of people have services like cleaning like house cleaning where they give a key to somebody and they're vetted and And they say okay, you can come in with the keys So this is no difference than that if you're if you're gonna have a cleaning service have access to your house This is just an easier way to do that But suddenly when it's things like maintenance and delivery, you're like I don't want to be there anyway So it's a strange if is long I mean if they're not touting that as part of the marketing then then it's much to do about nothing But if they're really pushing the idea that the pizza guy can come in and make his way to the kitchen and you're not there That's very I don't think the pizza guy's a good example Gets cold See that's my whole point for most of what we're talking about you really want to be there Well, I guess I guess if I trusted the delivery guys, right? And maybe it's awful that I don't I would be great if I ordered a sofa and said Yeah, take away the old sofa bring the new sofa, and I don't have to be there In concept, that's fantastic because I don't have to be there for the sofa The only reason I would be there is to make sure they don't ding things up and you know Let forget even like people stealing things just maybe not putting it in the right place or you know What there's always confusion about stuff like that. Yeah, they just case in the joint You just don't know what's happening I'm a little more paranoid paranoid about the stuff and I probably should be but I wouldn't mind if my Sister-in-law who comes over all the time and has a key if she could get in this way that makes one She already can right you can you can authorize guests. I've used one of these before to get a guest house And you just have to have the phone on you But this is saying like there's already services out there like like Sears is one of them that's saying yeah We're now part of August so as long as you authorize us will we'll be able to use that and finally I would say when I was a Teenager there were some kids I knew that would have loved to fed a dog or some cats a bunch of laxatives And then lock them in the house that they had access to and then you'd come don't give them access An announcement on the chromium blog happened that desktop notifications for Windows Linux and OS 10 are being removed or will be removed Chrome will continue to support the web push standard which it added last spring the notification center will remain on Chrome OS This is a funny story because there's a bunch of people like I can't believe they're taking away the notifications thing And and Google's like nobody used it and it was confusing because there's already this other system for notifications That's cross-platform and so we're gonna support that instead. We're gonna continue to support web push standard It's a better thing for everybody But I guess leaving it on Chrome OS is the one place where I'd say oh well if that's your operating system Then yeah, you'd want your notifications to be that because there's no other place for them to go But it feels like this is no brainer if nobody's really using that other system And you will be able to continue to use it because you just got a Chromebook right did I was um long story short I was in the market for something inexpensive and Mainly focused on kind of everyday tasks like email management and doc management and calendar stuff and To dos and that kind of stuff just kind of a good portable take it with me kind of wave getting that kind of work done And I've got an older Mac book that I'm gonna give my to my daughter for some of her classes She needs them for some for some video editing that things getting a little older anyway So it's probably about time to upgrade so though let's get something inexpensive and my overall impression You know this isn't a full review or anything. I've only had it for a day and a half but is that it's a You know if you're expecting the pepias device in the world my Toshiba Chromebook 2 is not that Does it run everything? It's supposed to pretty well Absolutely, and it kind of fills that need if you know what you need from a Chromebook They're there to serve and if you think you're gonna get it You know I'm gonna play a bunch of video games on here or run windows-based programs or do anything of the sort You'd be sorely disappointed and under educated But if you know what a what a Chromebook is for and what Chrome OS is supposed to do for you I think these are pretty rad and It's gonna fill the need I need for a very small entry price compared to what I you know could have paid for a New notebook so so far so good. Well, we'll see how I do over the next couple of days But I'm sort of Optimistically impressed thus far. Yeah, I can't wait to check back with you in a few weeks After you've really had a chance to to sink in and use it see what see how it's working for you Kevin Kipper showed an EFF post reporting that the JPEG privacy and security group is considering backporting DRM To legacy JPEG images There's currently a professional version of JPEG called JPEG 2000 that supports JPEG But there is no DRM on the normal implementation of JPEG And the EFF says this could prevent copying and reposting of images without permission EFF thinks that's a bad thing People wanting to protect their images think it's a good thing the EFF supports a system that allows optional signing and encryption of Metadata in the JPEG, but they don't want to make it harder for you to you know Download an image make fair use of an image copy an image over on your desktop It could make a lot of things really difficult Imagine if all images are subject to the same DRM as videos where suddenly you're like Oh, I can't load that image right now because the server is down or it doesn't think I have permission I guess I have to log in to see my JPEGs. Yeah, it's kind of a mess and it's something somebody who is Subjected to people taking his JPEGs and using them places without it accredited You know accrediting me or telling anybody who where they got it from and then some cases of replacing signatures with their own This happened to me on multiple occasions people try to sell stuff with my artwork on it I Kind of just roll my eyes anymore at it because it's just kind of well Whatever and I usually ask for a take down on the site who's got it up We'll take it down so it's not that big of a deal you can kind of police that stuff But but I understand the desire for people to want to try to keep that stuff But this feels like genie in genie out of the bottle to me. You can't go back now I think it's too late for us to go back and say hey this JPEG standard that we use everywhere on everything It's got good compression good looks good everything all the stuff It does small all the reasons we use JPEGs as a standard on the web and elsewhere We can't just go back and go all right out of the pool everybody We're changing the way all of this works. It's not gonna happen They're way too many complications with a visual web at least at the state it's at in 2015 So I'm with the EFF on this. There's probably a compromise somewhere.  It is a nightmare the other way Yeah, and as beatmaster more snarkily put it you can just put it in an iframe Yeah, see you know you don't need to change the spec of JPEG Snarky internet guys Recode reports uber is expanding its same-day delivery service and they're calling it uber rush from trials in New York City To include San Francisco and Chicago often cities that get these expansions price of delivery will range from $5 to $7 Calculated by distance uber target smaller businesses and restaurants who will be Who will have an enable a uber button that shows up if delivery is available? Businesses can sign up with uber or through sites like Shopify or big commerce And and or I guess uber will take 25% of the fee in San Francisco and in Chicago and 20% in New York with the rest going to the courier. So this is we talked about this morning on TMS This is uber's chance to take it to the next level. I guess. Yeah, everybody's getting into this quick delivery service Right, so we have all the postmates and door dashes and grub hubs of the world doing it for various things mostly restaurants But postmates is doing it for all kinds of things. You have Google and Amazon doing it for products some in In collaboration with big names like Target and Macy's and uber is saying, you know what? We're gonna work with the smaller people We're gonna help the restaurants who aren't part of these other Said delivery situations and and we'll work with the folks who sell through Shopify and don't run their own back ends It's a niche that I think is smart for them to sell and they're trying to undercut by making their fees Down to five to seven dollars, which by the way, I think postmates was the one who dropped their lowest tier fee to 250 Today after this announcement But everybody's delivering things now on the morning stream this morning You had a thought that you didn't want to you didn't want to share at the time What was the wrinkle in that cheese? All right the wrinkle in the cheese, which I Didn't call it that this morning for I don't know why I'd really have no explanation for the phrase, but it's this so the way amazon has Local same-day delivery service stuff that they they're rolling out and doing in different places and it's Bearing degrees availability depending on where you live and so I understand they're already got there They've already got their feet in that pool I just think there's an opportunity for amazon above all others To not just make it stuff from amazon and stuff from local warehousing and stuff from local providers That they have contracts with but a chance for amazon to be The next grub hub or the next Uber What are they called uber rush or whatever where they are? The name you think of when it comes to stuff you order online and get in a couple of days and have free shipping for And the company you can call and say I want Two jimmy jom subs and a couple of coax please and have it over here in 10 minutes Like why aren't why are they not out on the forefront of this and just becoming that brand that just brings you everything And it's surprising to me that they a haven't but I would not be surprised if they B might be working on something like that beyond what they're doing now with same-day delivery And and there are other grocery stuff and some of the other things they do right now Download the prime now app and get free delivery from popular Seattle restaurants for a limited time There you go. See already in a place. It's happening help Help it's happening and my so my wrinkle in the cheese is Amazon will not I guess they will not take all of this expansion sitting down They want a piece of this pie. It's the kind of thing they would deliver you a piece of that pie Indeed and I'm not even I'm not even so sure they wouldn't be averse to to getting into the actual uber business itself If all that stuff can suss itself out legally around the country amazon-based Pick up and drive you around taxi service doesn't sound that crazy to me Maybe they may not want you that may seem like a you know bridge too far I don't know but this whole thing is bubbling kind of around them And I just don't see them not trying to to make sure they're in there It's like apple not making a watch or you know google not making an os back in 2008 for phones Los angeles and orange county customers can now use prime now for delivery of local favorites from sprouts bristol farms Sprinkles 99 ranch and fresh and easy. How about let's say prime now salt lake city I go yeah, it basically I mean you're not wrong I think amazon's ahead of you though like they have been really pushing prime now They've been pushing delivery This prime now has got one hour delivery. They are definitely in this game With uber and they're trying to stay ahead I forget uber uber is way behind uber is trying to carve out a niche that isn't already dominated By the amazon's google's postmates etc of the world Well, then then the cheese was already semi wrinkled. I've just committed to put a little extra You just want a little wrinkler here.  I'll just look for a little more Researchers at french government agency Ancy have developed a way to silently trigger voice commands on smartphones from up to 16 feet away According to wire the system works on any android or iphone device with the headphones plugged in and those headphones have to have a built-in mic So what the hack does is uses the headphone wires as an antenna to convert radio waves into electrical signals that appear To be either audio or signals from That headphone to the phones os so even if you don't have voice recognition activated If your os responds to you pressing the mic on your headphones, they can mimic that The laptop they use to do it runs usrp software to find radio gnu radio and needs an amplifier and an antenna But that's it range is about 6.5 feet Although if they use some bigger batteries and they said they need to have a van to fit the batteries in They can get it up to 16 feet Van and you've gained another 10 feet. Wow. Yeah That's fantastic. So, you know places where you can park really close. I guess Yeah, I mean It's less about we always a lot of people tend to jump to the practical like well How can you do that? This is less about somebody's going to do this to you tomorrow and more about hey This is a vulnerability that we've caught. Let's let's nail it down before people start start taking advantage of it And figure out to do it even farther. Yeah, there's a real cool There's kind of an old school thing going on here, which I kind of like I like the idea that it's just basically using radio waves Uh, and if you had the van and enough battery power hack me from 16 feet, bro. I dare you Uh, reek. I shouldn't say that in the air. No, I'd never say that also And because the other thing is you may not notice it's happening. It's radio waves You aren't you're not going to hear anything. There's nothing audible The only way you would know it's happening is if you're looking at the phone and you see things started to happen Yeah, which is like, you know, read read to me the phone number of my whatever I mean, they could do all they could get all kinds of stuff. So yeah, please don't hack me Uh, don't hack me bro. Is what I meant to say, please Recode reports hp and 3m plan to build a privacy protection screens or build privacy protection screens into a new line of business laptops This is just next year screens are restrict viewing it to a person looking head on You can turn it off if you want to and share the view of the screen with others But uh, that to me is the selling point if you couldn't turn that off I would not like that if there was like a perfect sort of 3ds method of I can only look at it right here for it to be perfect That's a problem Eileen has one of those Sheets that she puts over her laptop when she's working on something that I shouldn't see which happens Uh, and this would be great If if she was able to like just turn it off and on so when she wanted me to show show me that taylor swift Uh video of her describing her writing process. She could just turn it off Show me instead of having to slide something in and out The next web reports on a proof of concept photographic technology from dartmouth's thayer school of engineering called the quanta Image sensor the idea is to have smaller pixels that each sense one Photon Improving low light photography among other things the resolution goal is one billion pixels in a normal sized sensor PhD candidate jaiju ma worked on the project with professor eric fossum He's the guy who invented the seamos sensor used in most digital cameras today if there's digital camera in your phone It's probably using that seamos sensor. He invented they are co-authors of a paper on their invention Which is published in iEEE electron devices letters So as a so as a practical matter though one billion pixels per normal sized sensor saying you take let's say you have an SLR can and camera and you have the the sensor size That's a billion pixels there and what does that just translate to just more mega pixels in terms of No, no, no, that's the that's what they're saying is we can we can actually sense each photon And so we're actually capturing all the data Uh, it's not pixels sharing like multiple Photons of light so the pixels now the way that they interpret they interpret each other in some ways They're filling in a lot of stuff. I guess is what the bottom line is So this is interesting. I'm more interested to see how much the human eye can detect of this kind of This kind of uh, well the low light thing is is going to be the most Evident place where you you take a picture now with a high megapixel camera Sometimes you still just can't get enough light to tell what's there if there's any light at all This is going to be able to see it should it should literally eliminate noise pictures of the moon scott the moon You tell me all right great samsung unveiled the tizen I'm seeing that right better. I hope so tizen tizen anyway tizen It's second tizen phone with a five inch 720 display eight megapixel rear camera and hspa plus support Tizen t3 comes to india three c3. That's my typo. Oh z3 I said he actually in india probably is that three Do india for eight hundred and forty nine rupees nope eight thousand four hundred ninety rupees That's a lot eight thousand four hundred ninety rupees. You're gonna be playing legend of zelda for hours to get that many But um bump that's a hundred and thirty dollars us by the way, and that's later this month There you go more tizen phones coming and they're really they're really pushing the glamour aspect of this one even if it is affordable One plus has announced an event called one plus x taking place in london on october 29th With a companion event in beijing according to engadget an fcc filing for a 5.5 inch one plus phone was spotted earlier this month So maybe that's this but even though they haven't finished shipping all of the second phone They're getting right on to a third and everyone loves the one plus So that's exciting stuff one more big date for you blizzard announced today It will admit a small number of tested People into a closed beta for their new game has yet to be unreleased and also their first new ip in years Maybe even decade and a half Since we got our first new ip from blizzard entertainment. This is overwatch The brand new shooter this happens on october 27th in the americas for windows users One would suspect it'll roll out past Uh this region soon, but here's the thing. I just want to say about that real quick They're on the heels of blizzcon their big yearly event tom and i'll be there They usually reserve big announcements for a big stage presentation in the opening ceremonies last year was Actually talking about overwatch in years past since other games other expansions, whatever This year they have literally burned all of the known quantities early including beta access Access which I kind of thought they were going to hold till stage. I'm a little bit surprised by it Now I have zero idea what they're going to talk about on stage And all of us are just hoping it's not another geek is thing But nobody knows so either there's something big going to happen or it's going to be the most disappointing opening ceremonies in the history of blizzcon But one way or the other before that date before uh, november At least a few of us. I think me and you probably Playing you for watch beta and maybe you They said they'll go into a wider beta after blizzcon So, you know after november 7th sometime you might look out for it there I expect them to just show the warcraft movie as the keynote Well, that would be pretty cool. Like it's just the whole movie just for free That that is one of the theories that they're just going to focus hardcore on the movie And it'll be the trailer and some people coming out and the director. I mean the whole movie Yeah, I know you want the whole film. I doubt they're going to do that However, they did people would lose their minds. Um, I I really don't know but it does feel like maybe this is the year they focus on that And then the rest of it's e-sports and fun and good times like it always is but They have spent all their video game news already. No, it's gonna be movie and e-sports. I I listen to the instance Yeah, you know what's up. That's that's that's what I took out of that episode. Let's go check it out The instance.net Hey and submit stories to us on our subreddit helps us put together a lineup every day daily tech news show Reddit.com and that is a look at the headlines. That's not the headline music. That's the headline music. All right Screen-free interfaces a h james wilson managing director of it business research and paul r. Daugherty cto From Accenture their research firm were writing in the wall street journal kind of sharing some of their insights I think the idea here was like, hey, this is how many we're on top of the trends You might want to buy some Accenture research, but there's really no conflict of interest here They're just given their opinions and they have done a study that ranked screens Third in popularity deep behind controlling things through some sort of invisible Way not having to look at anything or touch anything or voice control They go through in their article several things on the horizon that might replace screens for us to interface with devices ambient information So maybe they described a cube that changes color with significant events like high high priority emails coming in or something haptics are an example of that with your watch Given you a little haptic bump to let you know. Oh, you got an email from scott, you know You got a text message from eileen. You might want to check that out. There's gesture control So the connect is an example of that maybe not the greatest example, but it's an example of that They talk about connected paper where you can actually just In a cardboard box touch the box to find out Where it is in its shipping cycle or even to alert the shipping cycle that it's okay It's at this location now without having to turn on the screen or pull out a phone or anything wearables like the google ring That can that they've had that in development for a couple years now So i'm not sure how real it is anymore, but it would be able to act as a second factor of authentication for you They talk about wearables embedded in your clothing a smart vest that was really Impressive that could help the deaf hear things by learning their patterns as the vest tapped them on their chest There's automated responses, uh, you know things like lighting heating cooling that just kind of happened And here's the things scott that they say at the end of the story. Let me get your impression on this There will certainly be a learning curve But if these new interfaces catch on the flat screen display could become a blip in the gadget timeline See this is where and you may agree with me or not. I don't know I guess we'll find out but I think that that is, uh a little Laced with hyperbole there the the idea that screens are going to be a blip in the gadget timeline Is not likely it may one day become a thing of the past, but we will always display something somewhere And I would argue even a a throbbing light in a in a cube on your desk to tell you that a very important email came through Is a form of a screen I know it isn't a screen that is then versatile used for lots of other functions and tasks It may only have this one job, but it's still a physical manifestation of an indication and you have to respond to that so Look if we get away from even that argument the idea that screens are going to just be this Oh man, I can't because you can you believe one time we used to use screens? I don't buy it. There's way too many other things we do in life besides get notifications besides have A password authentication or whatever gesture controls we want to do. There's a million things we need to do People are not going to stop writing people are not going to stop making journals and they're not going to stop communicating with each other In ways that require some kind of screen now that screen may be a foldable piece of paper That you lay out and suddenly it lights up and you display whatever you want It could be a holographic projection in the middle of the air that you look at Those are all possible, but they're just an evolution and an iteration on a screen Screens are just the best form of that we have right now where we can construct a lot of visual data and information in a Way that we can that we can see it or sense it I I don't see that as like oh well It's this stop gap measure until we get to the next big thing unless the next big thing is projected into my brain Then we can have a conversation But until that happens we need these manifestations outside of our Our own neurological confines and and right now screens are those Well, yeah, I think they may be overstating it here and saying screens will go away because that's basically saying Visual stimuli will no longer be necessary and that's just not true as you point out that cube requires Visual stimuli and sometimes we'll need richer information than just a green or a red light So I think I I think I totally agree with you that screens won't disappear But I think what they're probably saying in truth is we've over relied on screens We want to put a screen into everything and sometimes you don't need a screen now I accidentally asked a horrible question on twitter when I said like give me examples of interfaces that don't use screens When I met like give me examples of future interfaces ways we could interact with devices But what people showed me was well, there's your laundry machine your microwave, you know your car with your steering wheel There's lots of ways to interact without having a screen And I think that might be the real point here is we kind of use screens for everything Especially since touch screens came along because it's like hey the visual Response of a device is the screen. What if we can interact directly with that? And that was a great advance But what about places where we don't need the screen and I think there are those kind of places and I think that vest is fantastic as a fantastic example of that because We're stuck in the the mode where we're like no the way we interact with the device is We put input in whether it's a keyboard or a mouse or voice control and it gives input back Either by showing us something or telling us something And sensory substitution which they talk about in this vest from rice is where the brain Doesn't really care where it gets the information from it just needs the information So if someone can't hear they can teach them to essentially hear By interpreting taps on their chest And that sounds crazy, right? But what if that's the learning curve that you and I as old men are like, uh, I can't I can't do the vest Interface I have to have a screen and everyone who's under 20 thinks we're we're crazy in old fashion Yeah, no, I I agree with that and I also think that the the cool thing about that video was it just It kind of put in plain words what I'd already suspected Which was this isn't going to be all that different if that's a thing that takes often does well and they come up with a good System for it and they're successful with their with their plans But it's no different than sign language or braille or learning how to read lips For the deaf and that they are all Extra sensory ways of getting the same information or as much of it as they can get And then having the brain process that information and there are times when that would be really handy Don't you think oh very handy and the way he put it in there. He said the brain just needs the info Then it can do what the brain does for all of us. It just needs the info when your ears aren't working You're not getting it the quote-unquote traditional slash normal way But these other methods are just bringing you that same information and now you interpret it Well, what we're talking about there is A thing that just is this would be this natural feeling of like You'd get haptic feedback essentially on your body that would be immediately understandable You could hear it from wherever you are You don't have to look at their face and see their hands move or their lips move Like this makes a huge difference if you walk into a room and someone says bill I need you to come outside real quick You as a deaf person are going to hear that But not the way we hear it, but you're still going to hear it You're going to transmit you're going to have that information in your head You're going to know how to respond and when to turn around People can't come up and surprise you because you couldn't hear their voice like it's a that's a big deal Well, and that is a huge deal I don't want to minimize the accessibility Reason for this which is why it's being developed. But imagine if that was used on a widespread scale And suddenly you want to follow the election results. You want to follow the game play by play You don't have to have a screen out on the table surreptitiously and keep peeking at it Just have the vest Delivering you that all the information and you're you're sitting there following the conversation Looking people in the eye paying full attention except not really because you're also getting the updates on That double off the wall in the fourth that just put the Mets ahead of the Dodgers 2 1 Well, and we're getting close to this idea of not even needing this I mean we we do things with cochlear implants now that are that are downright groundbreaking people hearing things for the first I'm actually hearing them. I think the closer we get with these technologies These are more stopgap interface technologies because there will come a day I believe very strongly That a small implant in the right part of the brain When we know better about what we're doing could provide A full range of hearing for those who were previously deaf Or full range of sight for those who are previously blind or lots of accessibility issues like that For me where this article gets interesting and where I start to Agree wholeheartedly with it is for I don't let's put it this way soon if their quote was one day It'll be a blip in history for gadgets that we used to screen to get our notifications I agree because where those are going to come from is haptic feedback on a watch On some other kind of wearable and the closure wearing Sounds either auditory visual stuff the cube is a great example of this I would like it right now if I had a cube to tell me I got a notification in slack Rather than me have to pay attention to some annoying sound on my computer go across the room look Oh shoot it already disappeared. Let me open it Like there's a lot of reasons to hate the computer based notification systems right now phone stuff's not much better And the idea that these devices would be very specific and say You can program it to say blink once blue For email notification blink three times orange if it's a text, you know, you could you could essentially program your cube What about the other direction? You're an artist you need to draw Is there a better way Than having to pick up a a thing and move your hand around Well, again, there's no I don't know that there is a um, that's a great question Is it because it because as as advanced as we've gotten with Visual arts and digital media and we have there's been doing some amazing things And there's new products coming out this fall from everybody who even advances that further and it's all super exciting But at the end of the day, they have given me a surface to draw on literally microsoft has given me a surface right And you're giving me a a pen like device that i've used since I was a kid and We've never gotten beyond that for the most part Yeah, people finger paint hand paint and huck paint at walls and do weird sculptory things that they're not used to Or whatever But i'm talking about like the standard like works almost for everyone kind of interface between the human being And the medium they're working on they have not advanced past that so that one I feel like just leapfrog straight to to to brain stuff There's a lot of neat stuff happening happening with vr in this regard though With creating creating two-dimensional art in 3d space A lot of that's just been shown off here recently the uh I forgot his last first name but the keen guy from disney who showed off The vibe doing that kind of work drawing aerial used to be an animator at disney That stuff was genuinely impressive and is a new way to create without having a pen on the surface So to answer your question Yes, there are new ways coming But I think at the end of the day it's always going to involve until you can tap straight into my brain and then output What i'm thinking There's always going to be have to be an interface between the hand and the page whatever the page may be And if they ever supersede that then you have to ask the question Well, what are artists good for anyway because if we can just translate what's on our heads We're all artists then oh dude. That's so not true You assume that because you're an artist The reason i'm not an artist is I can't imagine the right thing I can't I can't imagine the things that actual artists create. I'm like, oh, that's really good That's that wish I could have thought of that See I could I would disagree because of sure sure I could say well I can think of a three-eyed monkey dinosaur dragon and I'll and and here it is right No, and I'll and let's say my brain just poops that on a sheet of paper or digital paper in your case You may imagine a really interesting dystopic future. I just imagine stick figures in it though Maybe it is all from my stick figures, but it's like randleman row everywhere Is your interface between the motor function of drawing and having it translate to something that's Yeah, and for some people that's it right. It's just the motor interface right so I don't I don't you know I don't know how all that turns out. I know that's everybody though but as a as a general As a general thing all of these things don't change too much until It's direct to to our minds and that sounds super sci-fi. I'm way in the future, but I don't think it is Ladies and gentlemen, we'd like to introduce you to apples mind interface Yeah, so Folks, listen if you think of course, there will always be screens save your emails. You're preaching to the choir If you're like you guys missed this amazing idea That could replace this sort of input, especially if it's grounded in reality, right? We can all imagine all kinds of things where we use gesture control and mind interfaces But if there's something out there that's like, you know what? This could this could replace a lot of the ways we interact with devices. Let us know feedback at daily tech news show.com Our pick of the day from randy is much more down to earth Uh, he needed some music in a car ride recently and he had a galaxy s6 So he started using samsung milk music, which you may have heard of different milk Services being sunset in various parts of the world and they have but here in north america samsung milk music still working He's submitting this as a daily pick because he says you never hear about it Spotlight channels had a dj between songs ads were few and far between I just thought it should get a little attention So while it still exists because we don't know how long they'll keep it going Uh randy wants you to check out samsung milk music if you have a samsung device that it's on Nice send your picks to his feedback at daily tech news show.com You can find my picks at daily tech news show.com slash picks Uh got a few emails from folks about the surface when we're talking about form factors What hybrid form factors are good for dwayne in germany was listening to that discussion on uh Who the convertible is for and he said i'm a surface pro user since surface pro one It's my meeting note taker. It's my book for my college courses It's one of my sources of entertainment. I use it for everything I just spent two weeks in a military course and it was perfect Downloaded all the powerpoint slides took notes over them the sp3 and the pen make my life simple And it's funny. I'm seeing them everywhere. I go now whether i'm at work at a conference or in class He says scott. I really do think i'm out here living in the real world and you guys are the niche category Where these devices do not work for you lol. It's not trying to be insulting He says microsoft's report of surface being a three billion dollar business kind of tells you that story. Don't you think? Uh, I think that they're way. I think that they're probably funny of surfaces out there But there is raw sales data on these things. It's not like yeah a surface counted for $888 million in revenue during microsoft's last quarter You can compare that to six billion dollars in max sales during apple's last quarter and four and a half billion dollars in ipad sales The differences ipad sales are going down Surface sales are going up right now So there's still a big gap between how many are actually being sold but one's going in the right direction the other I completely agree and this is also and I said this back when the surface launched I meant man. I sure hope microsoft doesn't abandon this like they do they sometimes abandon a good idea They let the zoom dwindle and then fall away. They let their phones fall away like they have this This this reputation, but they're in new hands now. It's a different thinking over there and I said then and I say it now and I really believe it now They are they believe in that product and they're serious about it and windows tense is a huge boon to that product And everything they're doing seems to be focused on a company that could In theory make the surface a very viable product down the road It's a slow and steady wins the race, but they they are on an upward swing with that thing I don't have anything bad to say about the current trajectory of the surface So I think he's right and it's going to get even more so that way But it's not like everyone's got one and we just hadn't heard about it.  I think he's very excited about his surface and rightly so Nathan said that I made a statement about apple coming into perfect designs However, when it comes to the current generation, Nathan thinks it's the other way around Microsoft is the one perfecting the design and apple is quickly adapting the software as well now to accommodate these devices That's the reason apple followed suit and developed the ipad pro You're you're kind of mix and metaphor is there What apple thinks it's doing with the ipad pro is perfecting the design And because microsoft was kind of first to market I don't know if you can call that perfecting the design But i'll agree with you microsoft is doing really good design these days Nathan also says we don't all live on ios or android wait for tablets as the surface device lineup has shown Agreed that as you mentioned that microsoft needs to bolster the apps available in that tablet mode As windows 10 continues to gain traction that should take place not that it will but it should So good point there although keep in mind You're talking about market share We almost all live in android or ios the latest Market share shows 33 on ios and tablets 62 on android in tablets And uh look well hold on i'm looking at two years ago. Let me look at 2015 23 on ios for tablets 66 on android for tablets 8.4 on windows for tablets. So it's getting bigger But it's still kind of small it's less than one out of every 10 people Yeah, I agree and they're all microsoft's making a device now that I think is not it is pulling away from what a tablet is It does tablet things But that is not primarily what you have surface for anymore and that surface rt thing was the example of what i'm talking about That was a kind of a crappy move it didn't do well at all and then guess what there is no surface rt That was supposed to be the ipad slash android tablet killer and and it and it wasn't so I While I really enjoy the direction they're taking they're definitely taking a slightly different direction And this sort of hybrid approach seems to be working for them. So i'll power to them. I'm excited about it And then scott wrote in different scott uh and said hey With windows 10 getting activated on 110 million devices. How's that affecting the microsoft edge browser? market share and we don't really know yet because of the slow rollout of windows 10 but Uh in august microsoft edge claimed 2.03 of the pc browser share While windows 10 at that point was on 75 million pcs. So it doesn't seem to be Extending microsoft's share of the browser market yet, but it's probably just too early to tell it's a good question though Because there is that little default trick that microsoft does which I hate Where they trick you into changing your default browser to the surface edge when you upgrade to windows 10 So that may gain them some users because the edge isn't a bad browser I know a lot of people will probably find out that the default browser changed and changed it right back But maybe a few won't maybe they'll like the edge Well, that's the trick right because if people Microsoft's position on this is probably if people are getting switched to edge because they encourage them to switch to it And they don't change back They're they're not the kind of people that would care. They just want a browser to work and it's going to be fine It's safari and os 10 it's it's this for them and it's you know It's it's whatever your default is people a lot of people are happy with defaults. That's that's the truth But in this case, uh, there's two things happening here One the edge is a is a pretty good browser by all accounts the standards compliant like all the things everyone complains about with explorer seem to be mostly Taking care of here So I I feel like this is just prime time for microsoft to endear people to their products in general Not try to force it down their throats not try to create monopolies But say look we got this cool browser and all have we told you about our new ios thing that we put out And all in that new android app We just did and kortan is in beta on android and like they've got all these hands all spreading out in ways they never Done before and uh, so I don't I don't see any of that as a problem The real question is whether edge takes any kind of leadership Quantity role like it did in the old days with explorer and I doubt it I just think we're in a different place now and our final email and I know we're going way long today folks Apologies for that But a couple interesting thoughts from somebody who was listening to friday's show who's in the know Said the new pipes are going into africa But the price for bringing band within isn't cheap enough that wholesalers are buying it to bring in large-scale internet Even the larger internet exchanges attempts to spur business failed and closed Those pipes are huge investments and the people who pay for them want to get all the cream Before they open them up to others to start to sell to the masses a little chicken and egg thing going on Which makes things like google's project link almost essential for making use of these new pipes Number two almost all of the internet traffic in africa goes back to london of all places not even southern e.u This makes it very hard to invest in africa as most of the networks in each country Made a large investment to get back to london and won't cross an international line to pick a bandwidth But they will go halfway around the world under sea to get it. That's just a structural problem Terrestrial lines cost a ton the guys from namibia told me that it cost them more to go to south africa than go to london This needs to change before we can see pricing go down another infrastructure problem He says in the end we have a huge interest in africa We just have to figure out how to at least break even there and the infrastructure isn't there yet to support that yet So there's there's a hump to get over there is what he's saying. It's not like Oh, they they plugged in the the big undersea cable now the bandwidth will just spray over the entire continent for everyone Well, we get used to having it so ubiquitous you forget the kind of challenges they have but what great perspective this listener has Yeah, yeah Absolutely Well, thank you scott johnson as always my friend uh for joining us Where can people find more scott johnson if they don't already know which they should frog pants calm There's always something new happening. There's new show out these days a bunch of other stuff happening They can follow me on twitter at scott johnson And uh, there was going to be something I was going to say specifically and I forgot Oh, I'm getting really close to this this book being done that I kick started. So if you I know I filled out a survey Oh, yeah, thank you for that. That's actually a big sign that we're Yeah, check your email folks get that shipping address correct Act to check it because there's some cool upgrades some cool stuff happening there And we are getting ready to ship that freaking thing. So uh, yeah much going on in my world But best place to find me and my craziness is on twitter at scott johnson Do you like this show? Are you willing to keep it going if you're already helping? Thank you very much Uh, but if you're not yet, are you willing to try go to daily tech news show dot com slash support for all the ways To help the show keep going our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com You can give us call 51259 daily It's<PHONE_NUMBER> listen to the show live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m Eastern at alphagic radio dot com and visit our website Daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with tech republics editor and chief jason hyner and justin robert young talk to you then The show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Good show man, that was great It's one of those things where I put in a bunch of emails because i'm like, oh, you know, I got a few phone announcements We got a pretty nifty Discussion, but you know, I'll make sure we got some good emails at the end and wow We we got going on a lot of stuff and you're good in a really good way I agree. I was really really good. I feel good about it And also you always know when that stuff's good when you don't feel like it went as long as it did right No, I was kind of shocked.  Wow. Look at that I hope people appreciate it, but I yeah, I had a ball.  Come on One of those one of those comments where he can't maybe he won't be able to leave until it's all Like npr What do we want to do for titles here? Uh, leading out of the gate is one number to ring them all by bio cow Uh, I like that. That's pretty good. Don't hack me, bro It's just maybe that's just a good safety measure Look ma no screen that definitely relates to our main topic. Yeah, that's not bad Worf says apple has no honor We're always that's the someone listed the dms because we are always talking about how Worf is always saying something doesn't have honor I put in the chat room. I put uh, Worf is not a merry man That's a good one.  I know, you know, like it makes no sense Boy, I'm kind of I mean one number to ring them all is pretty dang good, but pretty good I mean, it's a it's specific to a smaller look ma no screen though is more relevant to The main discussion and I'm the reason I'm always thinking that way is when you look at our title and description On your phone It's going to be this title and the description which is Tom and scott talk about whether screens are necessary. So sometimes if the title doesn't match the description It seems like a little disconnect Yeah, because I think it's a at&t story about a new service. They're rolling out. Yeah Yeah, so Pete master Be master always gives me a link uh to a pace bin with all the all the links uh that he's fed into the chat room during the show and uh He always has a funny way of presenting them today. It's enjoy the selection of links on your anachronistic screen Don't be needing that for much longer tom Oh wharf says apple has no honor is racing to the top Who is it? Yeah, it's actually almost a three-way tie look ma no screen is also is just one behind the other two Shobot.tv folks the levelator is still churning They're going it's kicking Drop in do your thing Very good hot bird I'm struck and I didn't know you could reorder the games in your blizz Yeah, battle note Oh, I signed up for the beta for overwatch. We'll see what happens People are like I showed my order like what games I have on top down to the bottom and uh, you can move them I'm like, yeah, just grab a hold and move it. It's like moving a tab and chrome or something I just move them around I don't know why they're so surprised Anyway, you can do that Screens screens everywhere. There's screens blocking up the scenery breaking up my mind. Nice dark redeemer Screens screens everywhere screens Blocking up I voted for a war All right, I'm about to make a make a decision here folks. I'm putting in 93 tags Right now play by play Uh, wow, it's a runaway now. Worf says apple has no honor It's a good one. It is a good one pretty good Yeah, I like that one. All right. I like is michael doran been in anything else since Mostly been in I don't look it up on imdb. I bet he has probably dead video games It's mostly blog posts where he's begging somebody a paramount to make a worf based spin-off He has been doing that as any as yeah, I would watch it. I mean don't get me wrong He was in uh, one of the fan made uh star trek episodes. Oh, I didn't know that. That's cool. Yeah, I think he was If it was good, I mean they got they got nashel nickels to be in one of those. Uh, they got, um Oh, who plays check off. What's his name called it konig welter konig? They got him. They got tim russe who played tuvok on voyager to be in one. That's cool Yeah, just just uh, I would listen if they said we're making a new star trek series and it's it's Tng timeline and it's wharf and charge. I'd watch that Wharf and charge. I have left dupes base nine. I am not a merry man Wharf in charge Wharf living in montana With his uh with his adopted children for the joran and cardassian They hate each other. Yeah, they'd have to be young though, and then older alexander would come visit. Yeah, uncle alexander Oh my gosh, that's a great idea Wharf stuck with his two alien grandchildren You would need to wear a denim Wharf in charge Soccer mom pants Ooh with the elastic Oh, wow, that is exciting news W scottis one says uh, anti donna the creator of biker wars is going to youtube space la Oh, really a warren eileen. Oh my gosh. He's a biking man in a biking gang And that thing uh, well That went viral didn't it as viral things go.  I purchased them Heroes of the storm skin while we reported today Wow It's only three bucks. It was on sale, but that's why I did it I didn't purchase anything during our recording But i'm not saying I never have I didn't I've been reading comics lately. Yeah Uh, well, I caught up on atomic robo Uh, which i'm a big fan of I read lock and key Which I finally finally got around to I'm reading all the new star wars Princess Leia Darth Vader Chewbacca issue one came out this week Um, I've always been caught up on walking dead new new issue just came out last night So I haven't read that one yet, but Um I've also I've been reading you're back in hardcore. That's great. I I I'm gonna catch up on why the last man I just they had a sale and I was a bike about three quarters the way through the series So I bought all the ones I hadn't read yet Five dollars of volume for that. That's pretty good. Do um, do read. Have you ever read uh, Gotham central? Mm-hmm. You would like that. I think a lot. It's nothing like the tv show Gotham It's not even based on it, but it's about it's about the police and the detectives in Gotham central It's not a Batman comic though. It's in that world And occasionally they bump into him for various reasons. Okay, interesting mostly like how these cops deal with The the big threats Batman has to deal with but this is after the corruption scandals Everything's been cleaned up like the the station's being run better commissioner. Gordon's retired now Um, and they're real good. They're good cops doing their job. It's super good I love that series that may be my favorite DC series ever interesting and it's older I think in 2002 it started or something and then got some central. You said is it still running? It isn't it's not It's not any more and I when when they rebooted the universe but twice at this point no three times Um, man, I think even DC is crazy with that stuff Marvel and DC are both neck and neck for how many times can we just reimagine our universe by saying that if they restarts Yep, they totally do though That is such a different series. Tom. It's very noir and very like this is stuff you like. I think you'll like Is it on earth 75? Which one are we on? New and 52 Council of ricks will tell us what to do Actually, do you want you don't want to flash it off? I haven't yet that I want to because they they did the whole reference To the different multiverse worlds and it was it's kind of cool I would have to say flashing And the arrow or one of the few comic book series that have made it to the small screen Uh, along with Daredevil that I feel stays true to the content without necessarily slavishly Following everything. I think they learned a lot when they did smallville about how to properly Like you can distance yourself too much with which I think what happened with smallville Yeah, um, but they also found out there were some successes in distancing yourself and changing stories Uh, and they seem to have really Especially on arrow figured those out and then flash got to benefit from arrows Yeah, I feel like flash has hit the ground.  I just realized something I was sending a reply to Liam O'Brien. He texted me And I this is before the show started I must have turned on siri that whole time because there's a huge like multi-page paragraph of things we talk about on the show Could you do it? It's like, could you put that in our show notes as a transcript? That'd be great. Thanks Does that product and everything they're doing seems to be focused on it's only scott's lines. Yeah, it's only me That's great. Oh, that's funny. I don't have to say about the current trajectory of the surface I mean it actually picked it up really well. It was like down on my crotch. Wow Yeah, now we know the proper placement for siri for good, uh, yeah, or whose phone not to use when you see me next Can I borrow? Oh scott never mind I gotta get rid of all this that was funny never happened before I still can't find the fatty phone. I can't find the duke anywhere. I'm probably just gonna have to settle and get a six Then I'm just like, well, maybe that's what I did with the six I didn't want to fight and so I just got a six Yeah, and I've been I'll be honest. I've been perfectly happy with it. Eileen looks at it and is like your phone's so small Yeah, because she used a note and now she's using a 6s plus So she's back to her five inches or whatever it is. Yeah, so she's been she's been on large phones for a while Which is funny because I remember her laughing at like the note two About oh, this is way too big. Now. She's now. She's on these huge phones. Yeah, that's hard to go back I'm guessing since I didn't have a six. Maybe I don't care. Maybe And the but the thing is if I don't care, maybe I just wait a year That's what I don't I don't go go every year anymore because they're just I mean, okay So I missed out on Siri for a year. I missed out on touch ID for a year now. I'm missing out on 3d touch for a year Maybe I'll do that See, I mean, what's the point otherwise like going to the duke made sense because I was like, okay. Well, it's bigger So there's a duke I can't stop calling it the duke Try not to say that all the time, but I do it It's will smith's fault. Let me do it the duke Yeah, I guess every morning I check and every morning yesterday There was a 64 gig rose gold and I just couldn't bring myself to do what you see can't even order it shipped You can but it's like end of january or not in january end of November is the best dates you can get So they say the best way to do it is just check the site every morning at 8 o'clock At this point if you had ordered it a few weeks ago, he shipped Be closing in on that day, wouldn't you? Yeah, I'd be a much closer to It's all like it's a comedy of errors for real.  I don't know But then there's part of me. It was funny. There was a um What was the device that is available for order now? Uh shipping in four to eight weeks I can't remember what whether it was in our show or it was just something I read But I I I loved it. Oh, I think it was the um, I might have been the august lock Oh Where they're like, yeah, we got the new locks. You can order it now ships four to eight weeks Like yeah, that's the way everything used to be you didn't have a guaranteed ship date You didn't all get products on the same day. They didn't line up at stores You ordered your baseball cards from ranata galasso And they shipped in four to eight weeks. Yeah, it was how you it was accepted and that's how it was and we're all spoiled now I mean amazon prime has ruined us. Yeah, maybe just expect something that we think is it's not really for free It's gonna take more than an hour. Forget it Forget it That's pretty good It's not even worth it like last week's after show by the way. I kept getting emails about the Oh good It was some kind of discussion about star wars or something. Oh, yeah I don't remember what it was now star trek. Maybe I don't yeah It was something something movie related. I think it might have been star wars versus star trek. Was it getting the email saying That was so funny I'm gonna log off of you don't mind just okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's taken so long I forgot to put in medical minute for the post show So I had to re-export Figure out what's uh keeping making her really Feisty gotcha. Thanks, roger I will see you when uh see you later scott. You man Hey, we'll see you tomorrow Star Trek it was all about star trek. W. Scott is one Yeah, they even when it was it was so random I feel like shatner now we're like people who listen to the show know more about it than I do We were in the story about him today where he's yelling at sulu again for something But you know, I just re-watched the voyager that sulu was a guest on Oh, yeah The flashback one where two vox where jane way goes into two vox memories Of him serving aboard the excelsior. Oh, right I always thought they were gonna I always thought if there's gonna be a new spinoff it might have been the excelsior sulu I used to think that back in the day. Yeah, I would have been fun been great I bet sulu. I bet george tk would have done that too. He's up for it. He'd do it now if you asked him I bet he would time now, but he'd admiral sulu Because they had him what was it? Undiscovered country. He was he was actually on that ship Captaining it. Yeah. In fact, that's the period in time the tuvok flashes back to in the voyager is the they undiscovered country movie Time period because sulu's talking about going to try to rescue kirk and makoi Which doesn't happen in the movie, but they kind of explain in the voyager episode why the excelsior isn't the one to go get him That's interesting And he's he goes he's old though because he's a bulkin, right? That's why he's can remember Yeah, so in the flashback. He's a very young man And then he left starfleet for 50 years after that. Yeah, he's super old because vulcans live forever. Tim rusk is great Yeah, he is he's really good. He's my He may He may embody the vulcan thing better than any of them and I might even say better than spawkins Well, it's it's interesting because they gave Leonard Nimoy the out of being half human, right? Uh, and and he also was inventing the role so he had to play around with it more whereas Tim rusk came in like there'd been a lot of work on what a vulcan was And I just think I think you're right. I think he nailed it. Garrett Wang was fantastic too Also, I've met him thankfully a couple times because he's friends with Veronica And just a fantastic guy as well. What's he doing? Is he doing anything cool? Probably just he does a lot of cons That's how Veronica and him met. Yeah, they That Hulk shrew they were always at those things. That's where I saw Um Was it in Vegas? Yeah, it was um, I think it was named now Quark you gotta play quark and the principal on buffy Armin shimmerman. That's the guy and he did not look like he wanted to be there He looked real grumpy, but hey, there's money in that I guess Yep That was the one where I shook maybe that'll be us, you know podcasts will finally Finally so big we'll be like the traveling Uh The grandpa's of podcasting Oh my gosh, I don't like the sound of any of that We traveled by train. Yeah, it's brilliant Funk together and some train town to town Hello, Minnesota Yeah, because Justin Robert Young has has gotten rich and purchased a train that he lives on and invites his friends to come And I'm in I'm all in right around the country with him Brian brushwood lands his jet his space jet from time to time to join us once in a while He doesn't he'll remember where he comes from Those kids his wacky kids. Well, he's not much younger than us, but Other than I mentioned it. All right. I am almost done editing this show It's one of those days where things just take longer I got a guest and that usually happens because I have something scheduled right after dts Which I do today with Nate Langston Oh, yeah, he wants me to be Interviewed for this show he's doing Oh, what's he is it? Anything he can talk about or is anything new? What is it? Oh, it's I think it's just his his Bloomberg stuff Okay, but it could be his own his independent podcast I like Nate Nate's great. Yeah, Nate is great. He's got the whole world on a plate So say we ate Let's say we ate there's eight people Yeah Oh crap and now I forgot to clip off the okay google part of the beginning of the show so all the android people are gonna hate me Oh, well, that's fine You can hate me Tom can take it This wouldn't be the first Okay, I think I've published this show. Thanks everybody for watching. Nice job everybody. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Yeah