Hello Tom Stewart here with clean business today. I'm with my partner Liz Trotter. Hello, Liz And got a special guest today David Kaiser David Kaiser I've known David for for many years he's a I guess the authoritative figure in the whole residential cleaning space he was one of the the founders of arc see it's initial president and Still spends a whole lot of time in the residential cleaning space spent a lot of time studying the science of cleaning and Was was one of the key figures in helping us put together the HCT program writing the book and the training program and David is is here to speak about a really important event that took place today and share with us a little bit about What he's learned and and how it's going to affect us as cleaning business owners David you want to want to share with us how you spent your day today? sure so originally the event I attended today was to be an in-person event in Cincinnati, Ohio and Obviously it didn't happen as an in-person event and Can you hear me? Okay, cuz I'm getting a little feedback. I don't know That's just me or not I'm hearing just a little bit of feedback But David we'll try and mute what we found is if only one person is unmuted. It works a little bit better So I'll meet right now for you Thank you so much After I say thanks to winter. Sorry So today was the event in in virtual Setting of the clean industry research institutes webinar and They had a lot of world-renowned experts from Australia and University research scientists and doctors with a lot of letters behind their name not medical doctors, but Research doctors Microbiologists public health experts those kinds of folks a lot of them are actually working on the on the front lines of Handling this COVID they're working in hospitals. They're training people on infection control protocols And so they took the time today This wasn't the original program the original program had different speakers and they just changed it up recently and So the slate of speakers today Was for the most part Completely different or or at least the programs that they presented were different if it was the same speakers And there's a lot of information about the science of cleaning Especially as was presented today that really applies to people in the residential cleaning space and so Tom and I talked briefly earlier at one of the breaks and You thought it might be a good idea for for me to share some of those things with you my role now is is primarily as a consultant and An expert in the industry. I work with some companies and the industry as a whole to try to help bring more of the science of cleaning into people's Operations, but the agenda was I'll just give you some of the titles the first program was delivered by a Lady named Patty Olinger and she's actually part of ISSA now. She is the executive director of What they call GBAC the global bio risk advisory council and Her title of her first presentation was virus characteristics and communication strategies And she talked in there about how important it was for us to be able to communicate as Professionals and experts and essential workers in the industry Knowledgeably and with authority about how to Remove this risk of coronavirus or other viruses or other threats Mercer or whatever you might have and and how to go about doing that with your clients and With your employees and with other stakeholders with the community at large And we can talk more about that I'm going to give you a cap of all of the presentations just like Patti's and then We can open it up to questions and get into more detail as people have interests Jean Cole a good friend of ours in the industry Know him and his wife. Well he's microbiologist and Public health guru He does a lot of research in North Carolina and his laboratory and He talked about what you need to know about pandemics and COVID-19 Richard Sonice a researcher did Why and how and why we test why we test why we test before we clean why we test after we clean What's the purpose of testing and how do we test when we're cleaning a house or cleaning a bathroom? How does that even work to know that we did a good job? John Richter a mechanical engineer and designer of a lot of cleaning equipment in the world of the janitorial Industry did high performance cleaning what it is and why it's so important He talked a lot about measurement as well Then we had Greg Greg whitely from Australia talk about meeting the challenges associated with effective disinfection And he really spoke a lot about what COVID-19 is how it's different from other viruses And what we can do to really protect ourselves and protect those around us and When you go through all this to hear it They're like all these people and it can be overwhelming just here in a capsule of it But I want you to know as you go through it Especially with people who have some background maybe who have taken an HCT class or have some training That they have gotten There's a there's a confidence level that I got from listening to the presentations today There's a confidence level that you know what we just have to know how to beat this thing and so So, you know David is kind of interesting that that we're having that discussion here, you know as primarily in a house cleaning Professionals cause a lot of what you're talking about sounds like you know people putting on You know Tyvek suits and respirators and going in and fighting Ebola or something, but You know, would you say that this is becoming this is becoming a lot more relevant in the house cleaning space? Cleaning business owners are asking questions, you know, how do I protect my employees? How do I take my clients? You know, what do we need to do in order to stop the spread of the infection within the community? Was there much discussion? Absolutely and and I'm gonna sum it up for you in just a couple of sentences one is that the researchers and the scientists who go out and teach people about the threat and hospitals and and Dress infection control issues all those people that were on that presentation today This is what they said. We know that we are the researchers We need to we need your help. We need your help your cleaners help Not your help Tom not your helpless, but the people that work for you They need your help their help because we need to teach them and train them because the threat is not COVID it's the next one that comes and the one that comes after that and they talked about how they are coming and They're going to be quicker and they may be more fierce. We don't even know this one has taken us by surprise they've never seen anything like this before and they know that germs and Viruses are smart. I will tell you that Greg whitely made the comment that the virus talking about HEPA filters and ways to trap it and ways to inactivate it and so forth the virus has one job One job that is to get inside you and get in your lungs and kill you That's the job and we all have to be warriors We all have to be warriors They can't do it by themselves and they know we need the knowledge and they can help us develop the knowledge and the skills And they want to and that's what's exciting is about the fact that they're starting to pay attention to the fact that This industry should be respected that that the cleaner on the front line Not just the doctors and the nurses in the hospital But the guy mopping the floor in the hospital needs the same respect as all the other people in the hospital And that's the case for people in a home now the training that global bio risk does I got a picture off of the presentation. It's in a house. It's in a house They're they're training people how to do infection control and Decontamination in a house using full Tyvek suits and face shields and the whole thing and The doctors and nurses had to pass a competency test in the training that they do in person And do you know a lot of the doctors and nurses can't pass the competency test? Test and so they are not allowed to be part of a team in a hospital That goes out and does you know Investigations and so forth because they can't get the Tyvek suit off without Contaminating everything. Well our cleaners do things like like that all the time We we know how to take the gloves on and off or if we don't we should get trained and we can be We can be trained They did talk about the fact that a lot of equipment is really good and cool and unique But a lot of it needs better standards vacuuming Vacuuming can can really be a problem right now for people one of the best things. I'll give everybody The worthwhile benefit of coming on this call right now If you've got an infected situation in a home One of the best things you can do in a home or any environment indoor environment is to Leave the home leave that indoor environment if you possibly can and just let it sit and The virus will inactivate over a few days. Yeah. Hey David There's all I'm sure there's a whole lot to to unpack here and In the in the big picture in the long run You know this whole the virus and the the focus is going to be put on Cleaning not just as something to make indoor space look better But actually to break the chain of infection and to reduce the chance of of somebody catching a deadly pathogen You know, that's gonna that's gonna evolve out of this But sitting here right here today on you know March 31st There's a ton of cleaning business owners out there trying to figure out what they need to be doing today Given the risks that are out there. Is there anything that we can share that that we could actually do something with tomorrow? Yes There's a gentleman named Gavin McGregor who is part of the global buyer risk advisory council and He talked about trying to get to the page here the importance of every contractor knowing Critical things about their employees about their customers about their vendors and other stakeholders first of all You need to the very first thing you should do is If you are truly a professional you need to make sure that You contact your government agency like Tom You should contact Charleston or the county where you are and you should let them know castle keepers is In the clean business. We've had special training. We have the capability to deliver whatever it is You have the capability to do don't don't mislead them or misguide them or try to be opportunistic if you don't qualify for for that level of service and This again goes to the next time this happens people are going to start getting trained Companies like you're talking about that are trying to stay alive today One thing they can do is they they can they can communicate with their customers and say look We can clean under these conditions and they might need to do a risk Assessment first and that was talked about today and how to do that for example if nobody's in the home Then you could go in and clean And then they would still maybe need to use certain PPE and you would need to do training on that Another thing that they talked about is reach out to volunteer communities Maybe you can't clean the house But maybe you could go out and pick up the trash in the neighborhood and do on The video segment on it and put it on YouTube and talk about what you are doing They talked about every employee of yours and every customer that wants to give it to you should Share their emergency contact information with you. You should have a repository of all of your employees Emergency contact information and your family your team He has one for his family and they keep it in a place where everybody knows where it is and they have a copy of it So David hey, David.  Different things So here you they can sign a waiver or release if they want if they don't want then you don't get that But you already have their home you want to verify for employee relations They're home address and some of the basic contact and and that's been and and Like for ours we had every employee sign a release that they were willing to share it with everybody in the company Or their team they did talk about this and it reminded me of my scuba diving days This is so critical because we used to clean a lot just solo, right? Everybody needs a buddy Everybody needs a buddy system Especially if you are in a heightened cleaning situation or a more intense cleaning protocol You need to be House cleaning business if I'm maintenance, you know mage service cleaning I I if you ask your wife Tom, she would tell you yes, I know because I've heard her say I'm asking Yep, so You you want to be able to look out for each other you want to be able to help each other If they're taking their gloves off wrong if they have a cut in their suit if they're vacuuming wrong if they If they didn't change the bag in their vacuum clear, whatever it might be Okay, but let's let's not just try not to steer this down to doing bio Containment wearing Tyvek suits and and respirators. I mean we're in the house cleaning business So as much as we frame this in and what we're doing as professional house cleaners I think that would be most useful. I cringed when I heard that buddy system thing because you know My whole business model was built around solo cleaning and I wouldn't change it for that. Okay, I Would if I still had my business today a lot Some people on this may not know me, but I sold our business five years ago So in the DC area, we had 45 employees or so So I wouldn't change it for that But if I if I had this kind of situation come up and I wanted to go in and clean and my PPE required me to have a Eye protection and a mask and so forth I might send to people and if that makes sense to you Instead of one person Is it your birthday, please go ahead let me see if I can talk a little softer You're not speaking too loudly David, it's not you it's every time we have three people on the call. It's always like this Well, so I think that a lot of people right now are going to One of the first changes that they made for in the residential cleaning was oh, we're gonna do solos Just because of the social distancing and not touching each other and driving together. Hey guys. Hey everybody Thanks for the happy birthday wishes and that's important part of what you're talking about because that's part of the risk Assessment so if that makes sense for your company and your situation, then that's part of it The buddy system might be a phone call when you're done or when you arrive it doesn't have to be touchy-feely Okay, so you're saying that the buddy system is more about One of the things that you want to be Evaluating and so going into situations and evaluating everything more than just Wanging that so so you guys know that I was a welder and a boiler maker And I got into sales and management of large Mechanical operations so Everything we did was at this level that we're talking about It was rare that I worked on a job by myself things were so dangerous that it was really important to be able to to be able to Have have somebody there with you But we had we had to have papers on the kind of steel we had we had to have papers on the kind of welding rods We had we had to have papers on the process We used we had x-ray the joint many times that we welded on all this stuff, right had to be Documented all I'm saying to you is cleaning is even house cleaning is going to get more of of a Become more of a profession and less of a domestic type of activity Okay, and but we're going to be able to prove our outcomes We're going to be able to get a higher grade of pay We're going to be able to have more respect in the community and we're going to be able to help people more by what we know and what we do David was there any discussion about Needing Specialized training if you're going to be doing this, you know hazard hazardous, you know recovery going into But people referring to as hot sites and with the respirators and Tyvek suits and all of that Do we need if we're gonna I see People talking out there pictures on Facebook where it looks like that there's a lot of people that are getting into that If if anybody's interested in doing that what type of training do we need in Equipment and product what do we need to know in order to do that type of work?  Please don't do that. Okay, so I'll give you the answer that they gave there was tons of you could see in the sidebar people Opposing questions and what kind of fogger should I buy and what's the best? Disinfectants to buy and and this is the answer that they all gave Why are you trying to kill something with a hand grenade when something like soap and water will do in most cases? Stop it. That's what they said so we don't need Understanding how disease is transmitted understanding how to break the chain of infection and Different different organisms different microbes are different and they behave differently And you have to understand something basic about germ theory if you're going to be in the cleaning industry You just got to you can choose not to but you won't go very far from this day forward You've got to understand something about how they are a threat and how to mitigate that so David you are a master at Changing a subject. I have got to give you credit for that So you are really good at getting out the information that you're gonna get out now. I'm going back to Tom's question Okay, and the question was What if we are going to be dealing with this and we're going out there? Do we need to have any kind of specialized equipment? We see people out there like with Tyvek suits and all of this additional PPE But then we get mixed message on the other side that Bruce said just got well I guess it was about a week ago now really the only PPE he sees as being necessary as gloves But then why are we said that? So Bruce that's good if a rapid changing situation He might have a different answer after the Here's what they're learning about this coronavirus Masks are Being shown to knock down the and break the chain of infection So when he was talking about gloves, he's talking about nobody in his zone in his cleaning zone Like the house is empty or they're in the basement. You're on the top floor So so let me qualify Bruce knows what he's talking about You know that so But here's the thing is that in normal everyday cleaning where you might be next to somebody else or you're dealing with maybe a patient in the bed who's Recovering from COVID you go into clean that kind of thing you want eye protection want face protection and You want basically you want to protect your holes? Okay?  So that's the answer PPE mask Eye protection it has been shown to get in the corner of the eye and and not just you're here and I'm glad you shade tone cuz Yeah, that was that was part of the thinking Was there a discussion about masks and you know, they obviously The N95 is the thing that everybody's talking about. It's you know respirator. You've got the surgical masks or procedure masks and I see a lot of people making sewing not their own, you know reusable There's a lot of concern about healthcare professionals can't get enough PPE was there any discussion about You know the responsible thing to do is cleaning professional Should we be trying to board that up or do we want to not do that and let that go to the healthcare community? I'm going to get rolls of toilet paper and wrap around your head and That's the best filter. No That's why everybody's buying all that toilet Yes, there is a shortage of masks Yes, you need to have training if you're going to wear a mask and you never had any training don't wear a mask As a professional to go out clean Patty Olinger was a speaker she was the head of environmental health at embering University Hospital and She said she she went in the store the other day because her her husband's over 60 She's making fun of him about that a little bit because he's like 60 in a couple months You know Carrie had me go to the store the other day, but anyway There was a lady in there wearing a mask and she was wearing it wrong And she says you know do you mind could I help you because you're wearing that mask wrong? And I do this for a living I actually teach people how to wear the kind of equipment you're wearing and she goes oh, yeah Oh, show me and all this and so they adjusted it made it fit tight and the whole thing Thank you so much and she says people are so hungry for information about how to wear PPE What kind of disinfectants to use what's effective on on viruses on other germs? People don't know and they want to know they're so hungry and there's so much misinformation out there Greg Whiteley talked about those New Zealand's health department put out a tweet that vinegar is great on salads But it is not a disinfectant stop using it So I have a question about the masks David. I feel like there is a conflicting message going on there And not not specifically to you this is out there And the two messages that I'm hearing is one if you're going to wear a mask a great But the main point of the mask is to keep you from touching your face and your holes, etc But on the other hand then we hear but make sure you're wearing it right. It's really important Well, why is it really important if I'm wearing it, right? If the only purpose is to keep me from touching myself great question So and I'll finish answering the question about the other PPE and so as well, but It's not just for that They're showing in studies and they showed some you know Respirable particles coming out of people's mouths and stuff then with the mask and without the mask and so There are many people that have COVID that don't know they have it right now And they're commingling in the community and so forth. So when they wear it you want to Reduce the risk of infection By having them wear it and as a result They're they're not spreading it for somebody who doesn't have it and they're wearing it and They respect the other things like social distancing and so forth. They show that they greatly reduced their chance because it enters through the the holes in your face and so Ideally you might even want to wear a face shield. It does Beyond the droplets it does Get into the air Microscopically at the nano level and it does it can survive it has been shown to survive in a hospital setting Up the three hours in the regular community where there's a lot of air movement or in a house where you have open windows or You know that kind of thing They don't think it can survive that long In the open air, but who they don't know that they don't know that You made a comment earlier that I think would be worth Diving into just a little bit that you know, it's the the actual virus itself is Fairly fragile probably one of the most easiest class of pathogens to to to deal with and mitigate If somebody Calls a cleaning company and says hey, I've got you know a space here that was inhabited by Somebody that that was diagnosed with COVID-19 Is it really even necessary to go in and disinfect it or do you just shut the door and stay out for a few days? And the virus basically becomes inactive on its own So they talked about how the virus can last longer on some surfaces than others like on cardboard different than on plastic than on stainless steel and But all of them After several days just three four days the risk is like minuscule so If the place had not been inhabited by anyone for three or four days That's a big deal. Sunshine is a great thing taking linens outside and hanging them on the on the line Instead of putting them in your dryer. Although the drier's heat will Will will will do the job and inactivate the viruses as well. I'll make a point too There's a lot of different kinds of microbes out there and in organisms that can cause harm and disease and Viruses are not living. They are not like a bacteria Viruses are An organism that needs a host they they need something to attach themselves to that's alive like you and They all viruses come from bird and all viruses come from birds and And they somehow mutate and adapt to get into humans Typically by bad hygiene in the areas where it first starts And that's where you hear all this news about Wuhan and China and so forth so Viruses all virus well not all viruses some viruses and this virus the coronavirus does have an envelope surrounding it made up of fats or oils and so If you take the HCT class for example Or a lot of other classes on cleaning science. You'll learn that Soaps and detergents break down those oils or fats and so they render the virus Inactive and so that 20 seconds of washing your hands, right? like this Okay, thumbs and doing it and making sure that your Soapy Concentration is wet the whole time and it's not all soap you need water because the water picks it up and carries it away That is critical. It's also critical when you're cleaning something Everybody says well, if it if it's two ounces to the gallon, why can't I put five in there and kill everything? Well, you need the water the water for all kinds of reasons not just Suspending the soil or the viral load or whatever is on the surface, but you need water for it to do its job in breaking down that virus and They talked about that a lot today. We're going back to the PPE the guy talked about If if I didn't have a Tyvek suit like his his hospitals running along time So he wears waterproof rubber outfit with boots and the whole thing and then when he takes it off He hoses it down or somebody does for him and then they let it dry And so he's not needing to wear the Tyvek suit So if you don't have an N95, but you have some kind of mask If you have a scarf that's preventing you from if you sneeze or cough or something or just talking It's preventing all that sputum If somebody asked what sputum was in the one of the moderator said Google it So You have to understand some of the speak some of the nomenclatures relates to cleaning I will tell you this what I'm learning about the science of cleaning I believe that the science of cleaning is going to catch up with the marketing of house cleaning Okay, everybody wants to know about how to market their house cleaning business and how to get the next job and how to do You know this Tom. I Prided our company on not just getting cleaning jobs But getting cleaning jobs at a very high price and having a high margin I'd rather have a hundred customers that paid me $200 with a margin of 40 percent Then you know 500 with a margin of you know 15 or whatever There's a lot There's a lot to be said for being able to Command a high price because of knowledge and skill Yeah, we've had some prior discussions and some of these calls just talking about how The whole idea of digital marketing and standing up a website and ranking and getting some reviews was In a lot of circles all that was necessary in order to you know create a profitable cleaning business But now that I guess the community has been reminded that there is a health component associated with With cleaning and there's infectious diseases out there that we need to be mindful of as well that the science of cleaning and hygienic cleaning is Starting to become a lot more relevant and a lot more top of mind. So That's a good thing. That's a good thing for society. That's a good thing for for the industry. I Had somebody Let me say real quick to piggyback on what Tom said I had somebody say yesterday on a call that I was on that you know a year ago The people that were like the trunk slammers then the negative people in our space were the people that were going out there buying a vacuum We're getting registered They weren't getting licensed and they're just pulling their vacuum in their cleaning homes But in this new space a lot of us are like the trunk slammers of the future because we don't have The education and the knowledge that maybe we really should be having to to keep the indoor environment as clean as it could be That was interesting Well, and I think that this tool that we're using right now is going to collapse that time frame Yes, you're going to have some competency In fact, I was just going to say Liz before you chimed in there that one of the things that companies can do now To answer Tom's question to keep answering it. There's a lot of things Get your team together. Even if they're at home get them to practice show them something on a zoom thing like this Here's how I want you to dust from now on here's how I want you to fold the cloth from now Here's how I want you to use gloves from now on or Vacuum from now put ever and show them and then have them practice at home until you can get together with them Again do something to keep them engaged and I know maybe if they're not working for you at the moment That could be tough But that could also be a tool to find out who's going to come back to work for you, too Because that day will come But it's important I think for people to understand that part of training and part of teaching and part of the knowledge It has no value unless you practice doing they talked about a lot about plan do check act You know about that Tom plan do check act and you have to keep doing that and keep refining keep experimenting keep refining and and That's part of what this is about It's important if you're going to be an owner and be responsible in this business to be an operator Not just an owner not just an investor But be somebody who's going to take the lead be the general on the horse and take care of business And that involves being knowledgeable about the science of cleaning go read a book Get somebody like me or Tom or you guys You teach this stuff in your in your classes Get with people who know the science of clean There's a lot of people out there by the way teaching and they're teaching their own methods, baby or whatever and and this is part of that misinformation They're not necessarily about the science of cleaning and it's really important that you be discerning and Understanding of what really is the science of cleaning and what is misinformation? So yep, hey David, you know in the in the past or time if the question is asked is it you know, is it clean it was a matter of how does it look how does it Was there any discussion about how we're going to determine if something is clean and And measure measure that is that going to be something that's going to be more in the forefront moving forward? Yeah, so so Richard Shaughnessy and and John Richter talked about that. These are really world-renowned gurus research guys so What they said was basically what I explained in in a speech last year that I gave at the Siri conference And I'll just repeat that and then we can talk about it There are no protocols for house clean. There's no standards. There's no anything so I came up with my own for my own company and I took an ATP meter. It's that stands for a denizen triphosphate and You can buy one of these meters There you go.  There's a number on that meter that will show if it's dirty You might see a number of 800 or 900 or 400 or 1200 or something, but if it's clean you're going to get down in the double digits or less even even five or ten and so What it does is soil has a unique Characteristic in a denizen triphosphate specifically is a building block of all living things and so there's a residue if you will of ATP on Everything that has been alive and so When you measure that there's a relationship between bacteria and pathogens did I mute? Sorry, so there's a relationship between pathogens and and And ATP and they've been able to figure that out So if you get that number down to 10 now if you go into a home and you do a before check And it's three thousand and you clean one time with one method or process one cleaning cloth And you get it down to 800. Well, that's pretty good. You do it again and you get it down to five Then you are able to measure your before and after and so then you can document Okay, well in this situation if we clean twice with this stuff How much solution we use what kind of cloth we use how many times we wipe do we need to agitate first and do a rinse? Or whatever we have to do so everything is going to be different a bathroom is going to be different than a Living room what works going to be different than dry work, but you need to have a protocol for everything And ATP is one of the methods UV lights another message fluorescence And they actually have the spray you can spray on your hands or other things that mimic germ load And then you can wash your hands with soap and water and see how good a job You did you put your hand under the UV light and you can tell so When Brandi was going my daughter went to nursing school She's been an ER nurse for many years now and she went to nursing school They had her do that in her training and so forth so you can do things like that to teach people about How to get from a baseline of okay, here's here's what the soil is here's what the Here's what the goal is and here's the things you have to do to get it there And then that's how we designed our cleaning protocols and our processes It's so we didn't have gray out in the carpet along the baseboards We didn't allow that we had tools and methods to quickly get that And also part of it is being able to be efficient. They talked about that somebody came up with some idea about how to How to clean something they said but that's going to take you forever. So they they're not living in the Septic world of a laboratory or or antiseptic or they they they understand that you have to be efficient in the clean process And these scientists want to work with us. They want to work with us just like we want to know the stuff Can you talk to us a little bit more about? The testing aspect David because the testing is you know an ATP meter is pretty pricey Then you have to buy the little swabs. They're supposed to Test every house. I mean what what's realistic for residential cleaning as far as testing So certainly there are thresholds just like you don't start out with 27 employees you have to you know Ramp up right that takes time at some point in your evolution of your company You may not afford a an ATP meter or find a need for it on a on a regular basis Um, but you might want to hire somebody You might want to hire me And I come out and design your cleaning protocol for you and I have an ATP meter and I'll show you how to use it and show you Maybe your process works great. Maybe it has to be adjusted a little bit And we would work on that together and there's other people that do that kind of thing too I'm not the only one. I'm not here. This is not a sales call by the way But I do that kind of thing for people I did it for my own company and so I was able to tell our story and get Like the chair of georgetown nursing was one of our clients. Uh, we had kids with lung transplants their Lung transplants their parents called us. They didn't care what the price was So those are the kinds of clients you get when and and they're willing to pay And you know that you know how to do a good job when I was a welder I didn't have to wonder if that gas pipe was welded right. I knew how to do it And that's what that's what these professionals That are in this space of training and teaching are going to start being doing this on scale And I'm excited to be part of that I'm excited to be part of the clean industry research institute because of it because that's where this industry is going I do think it's exciting too Um, David. Hey over here. I see we have a question. I have maybe not question of this comment You had mentioned earlier that All viruses come from birds and greg says or bats. Is that Do you have any bats back? Yeah bats or bats and and And They didn't clarify that today, but I I wanted to ask them bats because I know that too, but um I don't know if we can say everything about the swine's glow The the birds give it to the swine And okay, so we have over here. We have another question So robin's saying highly specialized service with ATP monitoring. Yeah, I would agree Um, but Kevin says how about the UV flashlight, David? Is it a real tool or is it a gimmick? No, it really is a tool. It it does work. Um You have to know how to use it. You have to be trained on that too. Um, it's not like, you know Back when I was young everybody had those in their bedroom and um, they just called them black lights Yeah But uh they they they do have a utility they do have a utility uh and they They require some training on on how to use them properly Just like when you're washing your hands that germ stuff that you spray on there You need to know how to use them properly just like just like a vacuum cleaner. So So I I know I have um, this is sort of a a constant question that pops up and it is Like how do I decide for the companies that have decided to stay open? They want to be a service They want to do, you know, they want to do their part to break the chain of infection How how do they make that decision when? When should I not go into a home? How do I determine this home is not safe for my people even though they've been trained They have the correct PPE. They know how to use it Etc. This place is not safe. What what are those criteria? When should you just say sorry? So so here's some uh, I think you have to start from the top down Virginia just a couple days ago said if you're not an essential worker and you don't have an idea If you go out on the street, you could you could get fine In maryland some are I know in your state liz Somebody was fined $1,500 the other day because they didn't have a good reason to be out in the community So I think that's number one Number two is What are you trying to accomplish? Tom and I have had this discussion in the last couple of weeks a few times And you know, what is it? Are you trying to make 50 bucks? Is I mean is that what it's really about or are you really trying to maybe take care of a an elderly person who can't clean themselves And you know, what is it really going to make a difference? uh that that that extra vacuuming that you you know, you Maybe maybe uh, maybe not coming for a couple weeks is not a big deal Uh, maybe their daughter can come over and clean for them until you get back one time or you know She's already there helping to take care of them So all of those things I think almost even on a customer by customer basis And then do you have employees that are willing to go out there? You know, they're not like a hospital staff that maybe signed up for this kind of thing And even some hospital staff are saying look, I didn't sign up to work without any proper ppe So do you have the proper ppe to send a person out into the community into somebody's home? You don't know where they've been or what's been going on. Are they going to be home? Are they not going to be home? You know, that's what i'm asking I think maybe you misunderstood my question um, my question was So earlier you said, um, you said if somebody isn't in the home It's probably safe to clean there You also said if somebody was infected That after they have been out of the home for three, I think you said three days That chances are good that it would be a safe place to be in so What i'm trying to say is there's no blanket statement list. There's no blanket statement But for me if I still had my company today, we would be shut down Okay, that's for me, but I can't speak for everybody And I know that in some cases I know tom and you guys are shut down With a couple of rare exceptions Where the people are specially trained where the customer has a special need where there's a special circumstance and the proper Risk assessment has been done with all the players involved And so I don't see that happening with most house cleaning customers Uh, you have the rebel teenager who goes sneaks out at night. You know, how do you control that? And then he sneezes on his sheets and you're changing them three hours later You can't control that that's Uh, that puts you at risk And I don't know how long that would be like if I had to shut my company down today I that would be I would break my heart for a lot of people because my employees were like family to me, you know So that's I know a lot. I know a lot of cuss a lot of companies are trying to clean for a lot of reasons Um, I know a bunch of people that are and I know a lot of the different reasons Um, absolutely some for some physical safety some psychological safety Um, um, there are a lot of different things that they're trying to do Um, and there are a lot of the different reasons why Like like I have a doctor that's a client um in in my area And he's increased service to his home because he doesn't like the idea that he leaves the hospital comes home to his family So he wants his home cleaned regularly Before he was every other week. He moved up to weekly and then he moved up to twice a week So, um, I Maybe that's just a psychological safety thing. Maybe he should know better that That's there's no need for for cleaning. I I don't know but I do know that He needs somebody to come clean to be able to continue doing his job And and and that it wasn't actually my question My question is wife Maybe And it absolutely could be So what my question was if somebody has Found out like like let's say that the company is open this question came up today earlier this morning um, and her company is cleaning and I can't remember the exact details, but I think they went to the home and the customer said that they had been Around somebody or something that had been Infected or I'm not even sure what the details were And then later said Yeah, I actually had covid two weeks ago when you guys were here so how And of course nothing happened to any other people.  That's what they're doing. I have But that's what that that's what the game you just described is Is that's what they're playing? russian roulette So like all of the people at like casco, they had a confirmed case at casco, right? And uh, they didn't shut down the cascos The thinking is that people need food or whatever and they're not delivering it to the home Still got to come in there So is there any way to be safe if you want to go to a casco because we know that there's been a confirmed case at casco Was it all all cascos or just the one that was infected? No, no Yeah, I'm talking about just the one. Well, I don't know. Do you think you can travel to all cascos, David? Yes, there is there is a way to go that's safe There is a way to go that's safe But it's not the way that I see most people going in fact I was there the other day and I saw a laden county deputy sheriff that I know And he's talking to the service guy for tires Just like, you know, two feet away just sipping his coffee and they're having a discussion and I'm got I was like I had my mask on my gloves. I got to get my stuff and get out of here. That's that's what I that's what I did It's kind of like a presidential press conference Exactly Um, I shouldn't strike that from the record. Um You know, I went to casco The other week and they had their greeters with wipes wiping down the handles of the Of the carts, which I guess is a good idea, but it Caught my attention that they were using baby wipes and there's no antimicrobial anything in baby wipes I mean it looked good and I guess it's maybe had some advocacy over doing nothing But I think a lot of that was psychological It gave the perception that they were sanitizing and disinfecting something and All they were doing was like just using a baby wipe Well soapy water, you know, some of those baby wipes are soapy and and that might have been effective I don't know I will tell you this that person doing that probably I would I would venture to say 95 chance that they had no idea that they were being effective or not And that was what we talked about today a lot was that the people who are actually doing the cleaning They're not sure what they're doing. They're not when I was a welder if I was welding a gas pipe And and I wasn't sure if I knew what I was doing or not. How long do you think that would last? well, we're We're pushing up on on an hour here and a couple of questions that I want to try to get back to Went to was asking about the new fml a law I'm wanting to know You know, do we still have to pay them fml? I believe The new fml a law says if you rehire your employee after April 1st, you still have to Pay them leave. Is that right? It's my understanding anybody on your payroll as of tomorrow is a candidate to take fml a leave if they meet the Criteria and that could be taking care of a sick family member Or I believe even if they have a child that's out of school that they need to take care of And or if they stick themselves they could qualify for the sick pay as well Question About is it better to put your employee on part time or lay off some and let the others work full time? I'm working at 30% I'm not sure if I'm qualified to answer that. Um, I honestly Don't know there's pros and cons to both and I think The final Answer to that question in terms of what's the best thing to do won't be known until sometime down the road because we're still Waiting on a lot of the regulations to be written for the laws that were passed last week that if you ask The individuals that are responsible for for regulating and forcing some of these These laws they don't know themselves yet because I haven't even figured out how they're going to do it. So um, you know, I would consult with my my my cpa I would consult with with with with people that that you work most closely with in your local market and You know make your best guess and keep your fingers crossed is the best I've got um Robin wanted to know if there's a cheaper way of measuring Uh more affordable advice to measure micro levels on a surface um I don't know most ATP meters are somewhere in the ballpark of $1,500 or more give or take just just depending The swabs are typically around two bucks a pot. There's several different vendors that that do both um, I don't know David is there a more uh more economical way to To measure That we're moving forward surface um We're fond of saying that only science can see and so the visual is is something They smell as something too, but in regard to this threat I I think the ATP actually is not very effective in looking at a virus load on a surface actually so, um, I think um The ub light certainly has some value for some things, but again not for this um, I think uh what they talked about is very very critical that Everybody wants to spray everything or fog everything Really really critical for you to bite wipe things scrub things That scrubbing action or that wiping action is very effective in removing the viral load especially if you're using soapy water or some disinfectant on the EPA site a lot of people get confused about disinfectants. They are not cleaners and it is important to clean and then disinfect according to the label instructions Critical for you to understand that in some cases It was talked about that you need to disinfect first for the protection of the worker And then come in and clean and then disinfect a final time We uh, we talked yesterday a little bit about disinfectants and the legal aspects of it in terms of how you know the the FIFRA law passed in 48 And how the EPA uses that to to to regulate what could even be called a disinfectant and what we as as as contractors cleaning professionals are our Liability in that that if you pick up a disinfectant and read the label the first thing it says It's a violation of federal law to use this in any way that's not prescribed on this label. So um, you know to my knowledge You know people, you know aren't going to jail because they didn't follow the label but I think I could see I could see Things happening in this new world where people are taking disinfectants and putting in foggers and Employees are you know breathing, you know this toxic, you know stuff that could hurt them I see a lot of litigation coming down the path path that's going to use that label on the back of that disinfectant as Plaintiffs exhibit a If if if we aren't careful and using those disinfectant properly So so i'm gonna i'm going to respond for all the people that stayed on this call after six o'clock Here's here's the dessert. Okay Here's the cherries do believe for you. Okay Number one my nose is bled more than once from cleaning chemicals And being in a confined space So I know about cleaning and I know about taking risks and doing what you shouldn't be doing But here's what I want to share with you The cleaning chemicals that you buy at walmart or cosco are completely different from the chemicals and clean solutions That you're going to buy at a jancy and distributor and here are some of the reasons why the government says That there is a permissible allowance of exposure and If if you are buying a consumer product, they're expecting you maybe to use that product once every week or two possibly But if you take that product out and you spray that around in a shower and you're breathing those fumes or that Gassing that comes from aerosolizing that in a spray bottle And you're doing that in five showers a day um That's not a consumer product anymore And you're putting your people at risk or yourself at risk if you're doing that And why because when you breathe disinfectant fumes, you are killing yourself Disinfectants kill that's what they're designed to do and you breathe it into your lungs and your body You're a you're a living person And what do you think that does for your lungs? What how long do you think that's going to last? So stop it stop doing that kind of stuff I encourage you strongly to work with a Janssen distributor It as soon as you possibly can I know that may take a year for some of you But work with a Janssen distributor who will train you and teach you about the proper use of chemicals And they'll be your partner And you might still have to go to two or three I went with two or three different companies and got different products from different places But that is gold for most startup cleaning companies to learn about that Yeah, you know It is that's that's that's good information. It's important, you know Cleaning business operators. I think that we've kind of been Fun into the deep end of the pool here on having to learn a whole lot of new stuff at the same time the whole Idea pathogens and the chain of infection and doing hygienic cleaning at the same time You know, we're having to deal with a lot of new laws on the on the employee side And at the same time we're having to figure out all kinds of new things about about finance Small business administration and any one of these things in of itself would be consuming us But we've got all of this coming at us at the same time and it's a lot And we've got a couple of questions here on the finance side. Linda's asking about the $10,000 grant and Can you still apply for the full sba loan? If so, how? And she only says that she'll be doing the PPE with her local bank The emergency loan that comes through the sba through the sba website is the same process as a $10,000 grant If you've gone to the website, which they rebuilt over the weekend and launched yesterday If you've gone through that process on the sba website, you've applied for the $10,000 grant You've also applied for the emergency loan to get the ppp loan. You need to go to a bank that does sba loans and You basically just call the bank that you do business with and if they do it, they'll help you If not, they'll tell you who in your community can help you with that Um Any other questions here that we're missing david gray wants to go And go ahead Yeah, that was it the one from gray Do you think glove and mask are enough or should we use goggles at cost go goggles or at least safety glasses not these kind of glasses, but safety glasses at least But goggles would be better goggles or If you're not embarrassed, I'm not embarrassed. I don't care. Uh, have you ever seen a face shield?  Here's what the guy said. He says we didn't We asked the police in new york What they had for protective equipment. He said do you have face? No, we don't have anything They looked in the trunk of their car. They had riot gear, right?  I was a little confused by that when I saw And it might just be because I didn't see it being used correctly Um, I saw somebody using a face shield, but they didn't have anything on underneath it And I didn't see how that would be Yeah Ideally, I mean it's better than nothing, but at least you need to have the you need Ideally need to have the mask too Okay, yeah, that makes so much more sense, man Like if the mask needs to and the respirator needs to fit perfectly How does the face shield that has all of this openness? work Were you like was it Darth Vader or That was it Okay, um I am You gotta do your homework Tom. I'm efforting Okay, so at the end of this call Tom always puts us up a nice link for cleaning business today and then we also talk about what we're going to do tomorrow and We like if anybody has any questions or concerns that they've heard of and they're not sure about And they just like to hear Tom tell it like it is Then let me know What that is and we'll make sure that that happens as well um, actually One of the things I heard Tom. I've heard this multiple times now that if you apply for A loan and you get the $10,000 grant money or the that initial $10,000 That turns into a grant that you are then not eligible to apply for the ppp But I've also heard that that's Not at all true that you can apply for both and that the $10,000 will just apply to the other You speak to that It's my understanding that you can apply to both. I would uh Talk to my local bank that does the sba lending for the ppp to confirm that but We had a lot of discussion about that yesterday and how the funds are used within your business Can be affected by which Loans you have there's there's rules that that that that kind of dictate how you can use those funds but uh, but you can apply for for both and the $10,000 grant and the uh emergency loan all of that again is through the website and the ppe is through through a local bank Um, also Kevin's got some interesting information here He says that you need to go on and apply for the new new loan even if you previously Applied for the longer eidl if you did the application because um, it sounds like you'll need to do that to get the Uh, $10,000 Right is that what i'm reading We were looking for a definitive answer for that yesterday and didn't have one but the consensus was If you're going to be wrong be wrong by applying twice So you haven't done it through the website go ahead and do it Thank you bridge it and i'm glad it's been helpful to everybody um Tomorrow we're going to have joe back. I believe is that correct tom? I think that's the plan Okay for a little bit more financial conversation. So get your questions ready Okay cleaning business today website cleaning business day dot com on the right hand side you can subscribe email first name last name we're sending out Newsletters, please subscribe to that there's a link here if you do forward slash And corona virus dot or dash downloads All the resources that we've shown over the last Several weeks now I guess are all here for access and download Yesterday joe shared his response plan template, which was an awesome template that you can use to kind of Get your mind wrapped around How you want to manage your business through this, uh, this this corona vice this coronavirus crisis and he Put in the letter for his staff for the work stoppage as well and both of those are there for download. I'll copy this We'll drop it in chat There we go I moved my uh operation inside today off the porch There's a tornado Watch evidently there's some storms been in the southeast and they're supposed to be coming over our head here shortly and I think the rain started anyway, so we'll Hunker down and keep our fingers crossed Like a a pandemic is not enough. They got to throw a tornado on top of this Thank you guys for having me on it's been fun Yeah, thank you so much david. I think you just spelled a lot of um Little mini myths that have been out there for quite a while. So super helpful If anybody wants to get in touch with me or talk more I'm on facebook and they can reach out to me that way. That's probably as good a way as any Yeah Yeah, okay Hit us up with your questions. We'll be back here tomorrow at uh five o'clock east or thank you guys Thanks y'all. Bye