to the metal voice today on the show, I think the first time we've ever even been on this show with Ralph Sheepers. Thanks for having me. Of course, yeah, yeah, Primal Fear. Good news, the debut album is coming out as a deluxe edition. The band's 25th anniversary, it's going to be released July 15, 2022. All right, so right off the bat, we'll get into sort of the history of the album, but what can the people expect just as sort of extra bonuses on this album? Well, first of all, it's remastered from the master Jacob Hansen from Denmark. And yeah, I mean, that's pretty much the candy we have here. Just pinching up, pimping up the sound. I know everybody says it's a brick wall anyway, we don't need a master, but that's not true. It's Jacob is not brick walling stuff. He's just taking care that it sounds more solid. And of course, if you have a rudimental sound from the album, you can change so much. But in the end, the mastering is just bringing more brilliance to it. And yes, that's the major difference. And of course, as a special now, after all those years, re-releasing it with atomic fire. So that's the behind it. Yeah. And also, there's a bonus track of Breaker, right? Oh, yes, that's the accept cover we did once. Absolutely. Yeah, true. So it's Chain Breaker, Breaker. And of course, running in the dust live, right? That's the coincidence with Breaker Breaker. There was a Breaker theme going on. Yeah, we were just covering Breaker from the set, and then Chain Breaker was initially on the album anyway. So that was coincidence that now Breaker is on it as well as Bonnys. Yeah. So let's just dive into sort of the importance of this album, right? Now, I guess for the people who don't know you are going to get an or kind of know you, but a first time on this show, right? Just quick, I know you've talked about this in all interviews in the beginning, but just a quick overview, right? You know, I guess you came out in a time when metal was starting to start to go down, right? Like it's sort of, you know, with Gamma Ray, right? Tell us about, you know, you're in the band, you're in Gamma with Kai Hansen, of course, from Halloween. He leaves Halloween and you join the band. So tell me about that experience really quickly. Yes, that was earlier. That was 1986 when we already got in touch. I mean, we produced a demo together. He was producing a band from Hamburg and he wanted to have a singer for them. And so he knew me from time base back in the day. And he was still in Halloween then. And he was producing that band Mystic Pro. It's just prophecy, I guess. And then we got to know each other more closely in the studio. We worked pretty well together. And a year or two later or so, I heard that he left Halloween and I just got in touch with him again. And he said the same thing. He wanted to get in touch with me to write some stuff. That's what we did. And so Gamma Ray somehow was born. First, the record company wanted to have Kai Hansen's project because they didn't want to call it Hansen Sheeper. So they said it's Kai Hansen's project. And then we came at the same time with Gamma Ray. Kai came up with the name Gamma Ray. So that was the first three albums then with Gamma Ray. But coming back to Primal Fear, that was after the split with Gamma Ray that had certain reasons. One of them was of course because of my application for Judas Priest, which didn't happen in the end and everybody's lucky now. So that's all the history behind it. How many times have you said the Judas Priest thing? Million of times. But you know, it's all fine and everybody's happy now because Robbie's back anyway. And Tim also does a great job. He's a nice guy. We're all friends somehow. Let me ask you, when you join Gamma Ray, we're going to build up to the release. We're just getting some background here. You join Gamma Ray. I mean, to me, you could do Kiske, you can do Deris, you can do Halford, you're so versatile. Did he tell you? I'm sorry? Yeah, the funny thing behind all this, I always did somehow without knowing Kiske. I sung like I did before. And of course, you can tell that I was somehow a fan of Judas Priest in the early days. Absolutely. I was 16 years old when Unleashed in the East came out. So I was 13 actually when the album came out, but I listened to it later. And this all somehow got me into a new wave of British heavy metal and all the German bands are except Judas Priest and then Scorpions, not just with the Scorpions and except for German bands. It's not only the new wave of British heavy metal. So that was basically the metal time of the 80s. And that somehow really got me in the end in terms of influences for me as a singer. But in the end, you know, yeah, I mean, then Kiske joined Halloween back in the days. And that was the big bang here in the metal scene that listened to this singer. And he's amazing, absolutely. But I was doing my thing earlier already. So it's got nothing to do with that anyway. So yeah, that was it. Did Halloween ever say, oh, my God, Ralph is like an incredible singer. Let's let's look to him. They were they were looking for me. But I was still in my band tiring pace. And as a young kid, like being 16, 17 years old, starting with music, being with my family, starting my daily job and everything that just was not, you know, mature enough, let's say like that. I mean, I was not not not mature enough to decide those things to move to Hamburg and start a career as a musician, you know, but was was were there any like serious sort of like this guy can friggin sing later. But they never really somehow really asked me. You know, I just heard that they were interested. And Kai was the singer back in the days with walls of Jericho and so forth. So so that he also did a great job. He's also great singer. So but they were looking for a singer because Kai, you know, as a guitarist and sheet, you know, you always want to do concentrate on one instrument. And he never said he always said to me to myself, layers, he was not considering himself as a singer. So that that's the reason why they were looking for one. And I heard that they were interested in me as well. But that came later. You know, what about when Kiske leaves, you know, he parts ways with Halloween, they go, OK, let's get that Ralph guy. No, no, that was a total different story. I was in gallery then already. And and I already knew that and we all knew in the scene that Michael was interested in having Andy because they were friends anyway, you know. So in the end, that was that connection with Deris and Michael. Yeah, to me, to me, to me, I gotta tell you, Ralph, you would have been like the perfect fit. Deris is a perfect fit, too. Don't get me wrong. You know, yeah, absolutely. And we are all once again, we're all happy like it happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without without these stories, nothing afterwards would happen anyway. You know, so yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. At what point were you in a Judas Priest cover band? Was that like before Gamma Ray or after Gamma Ray? I was after Gamma Ray somehow to prepare myself because I was waiting a long time for for answers from England. And of course, I wanted to come prepared whenever something happens, which in the end did not. So it's quite OK. Like once again, no, no, that was great. He's a friend. But I mean, was it just a management thing like management talking to management with priests? Yes, I was talking to the manager. Okay. All right. All right. But talking was back in the days, it was emails. Was it emails? No, it was letters. And phone calls with a with a dial phone. Did you and the last question on this, because I know you talk about this all the time, was there like, okay, give us like five songs and that, you know, and what were those songs? No, I sent demos there for my application anyway. And that was actually Gamma Ray demos and also heading for the East Video. So they got that stuff and that might impress them. Okay. And now you're going to like we were building up to Primal Fear, right? You know, you start working on this music, which is the first album. Can you tell us about that beginning? Because you said before that there was a time of when metal came down, this never really was in any interest of us, because we were, we didn't, we don't care about any trends, but we always composed and did what we felt we love to do. And that's what we still do. You know, no matter what's going on out there, we still love to compose the music we love from the heart. And that's exactly what happened back in the days who came together in 1997, we met Tom, Matt and I, because they wanted me to join in a senior album as a choir singer. And then we sat together and talked and they asked, hey Ralph, we know that's nothing going on with priests now and you're not in Gamma Ray anymore. So let's write some stuff. And is that that? That's cool, because you know, JVC, the company from Japan was waiting for material anyway for my side. So we composed five tracks. It was, I think it was the chainbreaker, it was dollars, it was silver and gold, nine lives, four tracks actually, and we sent it to Japan and got a record deal right away. So that was pretty simple at the time. And it's also very interesting that then after this, the European record companies were hunting us. So it was really great. It was a great position somehow to start a band. You know, Germany never, it's sort of like they're metal proof in the 90s with the bands were still sort of going strong where the rest of the world was sort of falling apart on metal. But you guys were cracking it out.  Like, you know, we're doing, oh, maybe Japan too was an exception, I guess, right? Yeah, yes. I mean, like, once again, I know that was a crunch time when I think the West Coast stuff, Seattle stuff, music was, and we didn't care. I mean, once again, we were metalheads and we have this in our blood. And that's why we somehow composed music we love. And in the end, when it's honest stuff, people realize that, you know, so we were not just hopping on a trend or whatever, we just did what we love to do. All right, so you start recording the album, you get a deal, a record, right, for the first album, right? And tell me about the next steps there. Yes, then the record deal was in the pocket with Japan. And then of course, like I said, there was a fight going on in between European record companies. And Marcus Steiger from Nuclear Blast, he was just giving everything to sign us and he succeeded in the end, which is a great story as well. So we were happy about that. And then the first three albums were there. And afterwards, there's always, they always somehow pulled the option. And we were all happy that it's going on. We're like like that. Yes, back in the days, a step 48 in the chairman chart, it was a different number than nowadays. 48 might be a little bit of a disappointment nowadays. But back in the days when there were still a lot of album, many albums were sold, there was a quite huge success for us, you know. Kai Hansen, it was at his studio, right? It was recorded there? Yeah, he was, yeah. The thing with Gamma Ray was we sorted things out right three weeks after our speak, we had a phone call and everything was fine again. But you know, things were decided that Kai is going to sing in Gamma Ray and that's not going to happen with me anymore. And that was all fine, you know. But we're still friends, like nowadays, it's still fine. We're good buddies. So I invited him and asked him if he wanted to play solo on the album and that's what he did. But I mean, it was at his studio, right? You recorded the whole album at his studio, if I remember correctly, right? Yeah, absolutely. That was the days when we still, I think it was still tape machine. Yeah, it was still the first album was, I think it was just the first time on a very old hard disk recorder, I think. But yeah, those were the times when the digital era began in the studios as well. So I can't remember. I think it was tape or the first big hard disk recorder. Probably, yeah, transitional right there, right? Either digital tape, right? That was that. Yeah, that was very popular, you know. Formula one. One of my favorite songs off the album. All right, are you a big car fanatic? Is that what it's all about? It was one of the biggest Michael Schumacher fan back in the days when he was winning one championship after another. I think it was the first, I think it was still a Beniton. No, I think it was in Ferrari already. I think it was in Ferrari already. And I just came up with the idea of doing something about Formula One. And I actually, I bought magazines for Formula One and there was the CD inside with the sounds of the V12 Ferrari. And that's exactly what is on the song. The beginning is. That's a V12 engine from a Ferrari Formula One car. So that was a little bit of a brave thing to do, but I think it's quite fine. Well, here in Montreal, we have the Formula One every year. Yeah. So, you know, Jacques Villeneuve is from here and you know, yeah.  I mean, nine lives that you open the chain breaker, tears have raged the ballad, which is also somehow extraordinary back in the days with the synth intro and everything. So if dollars were dirt, it's raw rock and roll music. And I think that's, yeah, it's honest music. Like I said, it's exactly what we've done on the demo already, which is recorded in the proper studio. Nine lives is that sort of your nod to the Kai Hansen Halloween era? Not even. I think it's even, I think that's an idea of Mad. And yeah, it is a song idea from Mad. And we work together like everything, but everybody is always invited to have ideas and still and back in the base, which has brought stuff together. And in the end, yeah, it's my boy. By the way, House Mad Center is a health. Is it better? It's not a good path. Okay, good, good, good. Have you guys are tossing out ideas for the next album? Yes, many. Everybody's like, like crazy. So the next step is going to be decided to what's going to happen. Okay, all right. I'm not, I guess you can't reveal too much yet, right? Not at the moment. Okay, all right. What about, you know, so for me, the first album has always been a sort of a crossover between Priest and Holloway or Gamma Ray, we could say, right? I mean, over the years, do you find that people have said that as well?   So it's the similarities always there somehow. And of course, people always label my singing to rap singing, and which is an honor on one hand, you know, but on the other hand, you can also somehow be be somehow, well, Headcasting, we call it. Yeah, in the end, somehow it's over. Why do you always compare me? Am I my own voice?  It's totally different to Priest here and there. Of course, there's rudimental Priest stuff as well, like that could be in Judas Priest as well. But Primal Fear is Primal Fear. You know what? I always love Speaking off the album, like the way you sing it. That's a great cover. I'm getting you. I'm reminding you about the album here as we speak. Thank you. I got it behind there. So I should maybe shoot the song list as well. But Speaking, I mean, is that one of the like, is Ian Gill in one of your, you know, your influences over the year, the way he kind of uses his head voice as falsetto there. And that's the era before Halford. And I mean, that's the rubber plant era, you know, and he they started with the belting already. So with the head voice belting.  He was a guest twice and I was a choir singer being fanboy back there, of course. I find the greatest vocalists, the most technical vocalists are when they go from their chest voice to the head voice and it's flawless. Like you can't even tell sometimes. I mean, and I think that's the case with you. I mean, I can't tell if you're born a baritone or a tenor. I, you know, I just can't tell.  Were you born a baritone? I think I'm a tenor. Okay, a natural tenor. You do tend to have that higher pitch on your chest. Yeah. Yes. Who are your favorite vocalists and why? Dio, Halford, Tate, Dickinson, yeah, planned back in the days, Gillian, exactly the reason why you said because they all of them can use the chest voice and the head voice without really, now as a vocal teacher, I know which register they use when they sing, but back in the days it was just, it sounded the same to me like just like for you now. So, so that's why I really, really somehow appreciate very much. You know, it's, it's amazing. Do you think Pratt and Plant is, from your experience, planned the baritone or tenor naturally? I think it's a tenor. Yeah. Yeah. You just tends to always flip into that head voice a lot easier. Like, yeah, it was, yeah, it was pretty yeah, that's the belting head voice. But, you know, he doesn't, doesn't like push his chest voice in the higher notes, you know, he just kind of just eases into that sort of higher. So, tell me about your teaching. Your teaching, do you only teach heavy metal or what are there? Well, you know, the rudimental stuff is always the classical background. I mean, that's the first steps we do in our lessons to learn breathing, to learn exactly just what we said to, to somehow distinguish the registers somehow, where they're located and the different singers always, there's a different key where the flip is, you know, where the head voice begins. And that's what we somehow find out first together. And then I get a lot of hints of, you know, maintenance of the vocals, which is pretty important for us as vocal, as metal singer, because we're really screaming and we're a little bit more louder than pop musicians. So that's pretty much built on maintenance. And you're still doing that, right?  I'm also teaching a music school. I have kids like starting from 9 to 16, 18, 19. And yeah, that's pretty, pretty, pretty well also for me. So I always give myself a new impression, those kids are really learning fast. And you can really tell that they are listening and the ears are really teaching you a lot already. You learn so much from hearing that. It's a good thing. Yeah, that's exactly what happened to us back in the 80s when we listened to bands like Saxon and Iron Maiden and Judas Priest and Scorping and so forth. If you listen to much stuff and you're somehow you're talented in music, you can really adapt quick. You know, what do you think about deaf metal vocals? Like to me, as I probably were the same age more or less. Yeah, it's an interesting technique, but it doesn't suit me at all. And whenever I try, I'm hoarse right away. So I know I could also learn the technique, but I don't want to somehow maybe some sometimes I use a little bit of an effect in the background doing those kind of stuff. It's actually it's the false vocal cords doing that technique. So but I don't consider myself as a growl. Is it like a discredit to vocalist? Like it's back in the day punk, the reason why punks sang because they couldn't sing. So they just yelled. Is it not the same thing? I don't think it's a discredit because it's a certain technique and it's not everybody can do it. So in the end, it's not a discredit if somebody can do it. Okay, all right. Well, I mean, tell me about I guess last question is the legacy of the first album since that's what we're talking about. What has been the legacy of the album over the years? That we're still playing songs live and people still asking for songs from the first album which is which is a sign again that they liked it and we can be proud of that album and we still play songs live like a second chain breaker and so forth. So it's pretty much like a red line. There's always one or two songs on the later albums, which also could easily fit on the first one. Was the first one sort of like the blueprint to the rest of the career kind of like that's who we are? Yes, I think we somehow set our style back in the days and of course you always have albums where you try out different things because you don't want to just step on one spot all the time. You just want to also somehow learn and explore without somehow losing contact to what you started from and without somehow being dishonest because like I don't think I repeat myself whatever we do we do honest and we release something we are 100% behind what we release. And I guess I should ask you one last question. Your favorite band touring with over the years, you know, why are we touring these guys? I can't believe it. Oh, for me as a dorer, it was Halford when we did the Halford gigs in America. I think it was the Metal Gods tour which somehow they had to stop, unfortunately, but that was somehow a great experience for me. I've seen my idol every night. Did Rob say, wait a second, you kind of sound like me. You're delivering the goods every evening. You know what, Halford's a great guy, you know, and he's always supportive of all metal musicians. I'm sure you had a great time with him. Absolutely. A gentleman and a really nice guy. All right, on that note, everybody on July, I'm trying to see here the day July 15th, the re-release of Remastered with bonus tracks of the Primal Fear debut album, which is a classic today. And Ralph, if there's anything you want to say as a last note, promote? Yes, I mean, of course, we are all grateful for all those years the fans gave us as well. I mean, it's a give and take, you know, so I now always say, I consider the whole family as a family because once again, without you, we would be nothing and without us, maybe you- Without me personally or just in the fans in general? Everybody personally, so yeah, I'm just kidding Ralph, that's the sense of humor. We don't always give a take and it's just whenever we're in the lockdown, we're missing the time and then we still miss the time to go out there live, but be sure we will be back and so we're all looking forward. We look forward to seeing you on tour and your new album whenever it comes out, we look forward to that too. Thank you so much. Thanks to Jimmy, so have a wonderful evening.


And in river states, governor Yosem Weke as again decried the death of effective political leadership in Nigeria. Weke made the observation at the inauguration of the dualized Obuno Abali Eastern Bipus Road that was performed by the former governor of Sokoto state, Senator Ali Uomako on Tuesday. Details on this report. The governor noted how wrong it is for people to think that leadership is a function of political party when it is actually about the mindset of the individual. Weke said while others had used the economic hardship as excuse not to render leadership and service to the people, he has found a more rewarding way to sustain the delivery of projects in rivers. The people want to serve their people. The only regret I have is I don't have the opportunity to tell the bandits enough is enough. If I had the opportunity, the bandits stole their time with the gun. But unfortunately I don't have it. The governor took a swipe at certain misguided politicians from the state who mis-conceived his assertion on Monday. He explained that he has remained a consistent politician urging the rivers people to be happy that they have a governor who will always defend the state. In inaugurating the Obuno Abali Eastern Bipus Road, former governor of Sokoto State Senator Ali Uomako, lauded the good leadership weke has demonstrated by serving the rivers people. The Obuno Abali Eastern Bipus Road was a single carriage of 7.3 meters wide, but it was totally scarified and completely rebuilt.


Welcom yn y toffi TV, mae'n tryd y philharmonic Hall after Eviton's ADM tonight, by John Blaine Chairman of the Eviton's Shareholders Association. John, what was the big takeaway from tonight's ADM? Well, big takeaway, as in the thing everyone will remember. 30 million quid from USM Holdings, I would think. I mean, that's a bit creative, isn't it? A bit creative. I mean, it's been ring-fenced. I haven't said it's been ring-fenced. It's an option. 30 million pound for an option on name and rights of Bramley Mord dock stadium, on a stadium that hasn't had planned permission yet. But why not? Other teams do it? Well, that's why it has to be ring-fenced because he may need it back if we don't get approval. Yeah. Yeah, other clubs, city and others, find ways to confront the challenges that FFP brings and that seems to me, that's what that is. Yeah. I suppose they put the losses up and it was 94.4 million across the three years, bringing us 11 million almost under. Yeah, comfortably in the rules, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that's good first and foremost because obviously the predictions where we were even closer than that or might even fail it, which we've not done, so that was good. What did you make of the presentation overall? From being into end. I think I'm not a great fan, to be honest, of all the stuff, you know, the review of the year because it's just, it's padding really, isn't it, for 20 minutes. Doesn't mean you don't enjoy watching them, but you know, we could do without those. I'd rather have longer for questions from the floor. Denise's piece was okay. I thought, yeah, she reads the script well off those fancy things that they have and thought that was quite good in that sense. Sasha rattled through his at a pace. Yeah, so he'll relax a little bit in future years, I guess. I thought Brands was really, really good. Anyone who knows how Dutch people think, which is forthright, direct, straight, blunt, you know, brutal, those sorts of things. He said a hell of a lot about players we want to move on, players who didn't want to be here. He just candidly said, not the exact words, but I failed to get the centre back. I know I did, but look at all these others that I got. And then Bill was normally, as Bill is, in those situations, because he was being asked to actually cheer it wasn't it, open and enclose it type of thing.  So, yeah, I was okay, but we were given the accounts when we left and we could have been given them when we went in. So, there was clearly no intent to take any scrutiny on those, but I think that the 111-ish, whatever the exact number is, million of losses with 30-ish of operating losses, above at the high end of what people thought. Certainly we've talked about it on EBM that hopefully they'll load it all in now, so that there are no surprises going forward. But actually FY20 is the one, the one we're in right now. Denise talked about ramping up spend on the stadium and clearly, although we've got 13 months of costs in these numbers, we've also got 13 months of income as well. So, I think next year could be another one where we're quite close to the wire unless there's a windfall sponsorship arrived from somewhere, or we improve our commercial performance significantly, or heaven forbid, we do something very, very exceptional in player trading and either get rid of a lot of deadwood for decent money, which clearly Marcell sees as his challenge, or we have to sell whatever the fan might be, one of the so-called crown jewels for a big slug of money. One very good player getting sold for silly money, fixes all those FFP issues, so let's see. That's not something we want to concentrate on, obviously when you're trying to build a squad though. Yeah, but it's not. Yeah, but it's with financiers and accountants get creative, I was going to say that, it's not creative at all, it's pretty one-on-one stuff, but if we take a very simplistic view that says we sell a player for a hundred million, we sell Richard Wilson for a hundred million, we get a hundred million, we replace him with a hundred million pound player over five years, we amatise the cost 20 million a year. In that year we made 80 million, and that's awfully simple way to express it, but it doesn't mean as the other shower have shown that when you sell your most valued player that that necessarily weakens the squad, and I thought Marcell was quite good in, because I've been an advocate of, we did replace the Lukaku goals, we just didn't get a 25 goal striker, and that's effectively what he said, isn't it? You know, the two or three big goal scorers in Lukaku's best season scored X, and last year three players scored X, so we have replaced those goals, and the same will apply going forward I think, we shouldn't get too hung up about getting wedded to individual players. If a player can be sold for more than what we think he is worth, let's do it as long as, as we talked on toffee tv last week when we were talking about this, as long as we've got that succession stuff planned out, and we know which players we're going to bring in, and you do those transactions, not necessarily literally on the same day, but behind the scenes you know they are done, so we've got some really valuable assets there, and so hopefully we're smart working behind the scenes with the brands and Ancelotti working in concert, and we'll be okay. Big thanks to John for joining us there, obviously we'll do more on this, you'll be able to find all of those numbers on Everton website, and all over the news as well, well like I say the big news is Alasia Dwsmanof is well into Everton, make sure you give it a thumbs up, subscribe, join us on Patreon again, like I say, big thanks to John, see you later.


Is this the strat? No way. No way that's the strat, is it? Anyway, hello everybody and welcome to what is probably the, well maybe the last video on it, but it definitely isn't the last raid I'm doing because no matter what we get, because I'm the master of 10s in Jurassic World alive, um, hopefully, we should unlock Mortem Rex. I say hopefully, we are gonna, I've got 290 out of 300, so even if we get the dreaded 10, we're going to unlock Mortem Rex. Oh, I can't wait, so we are trying this really weird strategy. I've never heard of it before, um, but it's a level one sloth strat. No idea how this works.  Uh, so, I want to say thank you to the Pro-C, uh, Atonio, uh, for kind of setting this up, because I had no idea about this. I'd, I'd, a level one sloth strat. That's a thing. Alright, I'm just wondering, because I was looking, I'm, I'm assuming they always go for camouflage.  Okay, it doesn't die. So are we just distracting it every time? Is, is that what we do? We just distract it? Wouldn't be surprised, but so weird. Okay, distract, because I guess I can distract the, um, the sloth. What does a sloth distract with that move? Let's have a look. So he camouflages, right?  So basically, the sloth is always going to, in fact, wait, it lasts for two turns. So if he always goes for camo, that means he's, he'll, he'll, I mean, apart from the first turn, right? He's, he's gonna survive. He's gonna survive constantly and always put distraction on the, uh, Mortem Rex, as long as it doesn't cleanse itself. Yeah, there's nothing, there's nothing that Mortem Rex can do that means that it goes through, um, it goes through evasive. So all you need to do is the sloth, right? Is just constantly go for camouflage, I think. So it's time to heal. Okay, okay. Uh, I mean, since everyone's took a hit, I'll do a heal because it doesn't matter what happens here. Uh, we're going to get a distraction added on from the sloth. So this sloth is actually going to be on full health and it's going to get all the way through to the end. Oh my God, the level one sloth, right? So basically as the sloth, it's the carrier. You can just carry anybody. Um, and I saw that when they were chatting about this, um, they were saying, oh no, we're going to have so many, so many people that just wouldn't be carried through Mortem Raids. People are like, I'll be the sloth. So apparently the lower level, the sloth, the better. Oh, oh, thank God. You kind of evaded that because that would have been a lot of damage. So now we just go for big hits, I think. Just distraction. Yeah, I mean, well, well, the dominance is going for it.  There's three distractions coming through. One from the sloth, one from me and one from phosphorus. So this is it guys. We all, I feel like it's been a journey. It has been a journey trying to get here to Mortem Rex. The first video I uploaded on this was on the 22nd of July this year. So you got August, June, July, August, September.  Just shy of three months to unlock it. Oh, 10,000. That's not with a crit. Good Lord. Okay. So this is just going to do a regular hit to everybody, except for the sloth because he's got, oh, wait, no, never mind. I always thought, oh, look at that. He does some damage. Little bits of damage, but hey, it all adds up, doesn't it? So we're still, so now we just distract. Now we all just go for distraction. Then I go for regular hits. So this is the first team I've seen. Take on Mortem for one, there's a level one and two. There's only one healer and that heal is me. Ooh, that's interesting. Nobody's going to take any damage next round. I'm assuming. Oh, no. Oh, no, he's disconnected. He disconnected. Oh, no. Oh, no. What does that mean? What does that mean? Uh, oh God, no. No, he's reconnected. He's back in, but unfortunately it's too late. Now hopefully with that distraction, the sloth distraction with, uh, the Terrabirds distract, the phosphorakis distraction, my distraction. Hopefully that's going to reduce his attack to zero. Um, I'm hoping.  Come on, man. Oh, it's on me. Oh, dear. Oh, well, it's not too bad. It's not too bad. Um, it just means that we have to go on for an extra turn, I think. Uh, he's going to do camouflage. Do I heal? Yeah, I guess. I guess I'll do it.  Oh, okay. Well, it seems that the, uh, the early Dominus just wants to take out because he's the only one doing damage here because the sloth, I mean, putting distraction on doesn't do anything here. The phosphorus is just saving its own skin, guaranteeing the dodge. And, uh, I'm healing. So really it's 5,000 damage, I think, right? 5,000 damage with a crit. There we go. Okay, round two. We're probably a turn less. Uh, oh God. Oh, this is kind of not what we wanted though. Um, because I don't know, maybe we can do it. Maybe we can do it. It depends how much damage the early Dominus can do. I mean, early Dominus, I don't think its rampage is going to, um, attack? Is it? Is the rampage going to attack it? Uh, so target minions, um, goes for the highest attack. So, I mean, I can do some damage to, uh, oh, I don't know. Can I even target the minion? Oh, God.  I'll target the minion. It was a team distraction. Yeah, yeah, it was like, you did good, but I know it was tempting. It was tempting to cover the distraction at the bottom. Okay, so we distract him, but he's going to heal himself anyway. So, anyway, the biggest threat out of the way is the raptor, because, oh wait, we're just going to go for regular strike and hit everybody? Okay, so distraction, unfortunately, it has to do that. It's a shame if it had its rampage, if only it had its rampage. So that means that I kind of have to go, um, to attack my jungle source. Now, really, was there any need for me to do that?  No! No! No, the sloth would have made it be on a disconnected. Damn it.  Yeah, we'll just give up. Yeah, yeah, because, okay, we're going to restart. Do that all again. Skip. Fast forward. Thank you. Oh, it's over. It's finally over. Okay, so guys, we're going to fight, feed a little bit of a half minute, half an hour later or something, even, maybe even 40 minutes. Um, finally, we've taken up on Rex. We did two more tries with the sloth. Uh, the first one had died on the first turn. It was like, oh, if you had a sloth that was, you know, it could actually take a hit, then you would obviously do way better. Um, so, but we tried it again and we only got like two or three turns in before it died and you really need it to get the distractions off. That's its only job is to distract. Um, but we've done it. Finally. I've been recording for like an hour now, but here it is. Mortem Rex incubator. What are we going to get? What are we going to get? If we get 10 either way, we've unlocked. Come on. Come on. What's it going to be? Be like a hundred or 20 double it. And there it is. Mortem Rex ready to unlock. Oh my God. I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm so excited. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. Oh, look, I've got one now. So we need to scroll all the way down the bottom. Oh, yeah. My team has changed. I'm trying something different because my other team was not working. Uh, so all there is Mortem Rex. Are you ready? The moment we've all been waiting for Mortem Rex unlocked added to the team. Damn. There we go. I didn't even make a noise apparently. Anyway, we're 10% of the way to getting it to level 27. So at a base 26 that has 2000 attack 4500 health and 108 speed abilities. Cleansing impact was pretty good. The fierce rampage is 4000 like damage. Which is very good. Um, but apart from that doesn't really have it's basically a glorified Thor door, except for it can't do the instant hate and stun. It's a bit of a shame. Although 75% chance of resistance to stun swap prevention, 100% chance of speed reduction. So, but not resistant to lowering its attack, which is probably why most people don't use it. Where to find rates engine denies any part in the creation of this modified Toronto source wrecks, but admit to tracking its map movements. Their specialists have notified a pattern of unique territorial behavior. Strangely, his pattern sometimes includes the help of other creatures. Oh, I mean, that's just, of course, saying that, you know, it's a little minions. Oh, can we add it to the team? Can we actually take this thing out? I want to try. Can we actually use it in a battle? Or is it only for like, it must be. You must be able to use it for bad. Hell yeah. What should we switch it up for? Switch it up a Draco. We'll switch it up a Draco. There we go. It's only level 26. Um, it has no boost on it. Although saying that there is a new event coming up and it is only happening. I'm a hundred percent sure because of the community. Um, they are having a, uh, an event where you can take boosts or mods, whatever you call boosts off dinosaurs and put them onto anything you want without any, um, you can refund it and without the getting the 50% uh, penalty to it. So it might be interesting to see what a, uh, Mortem Rex fully maxed at like, imagine level 30 Mortem Rex. How much damage that could do at level 26?  So at max, it gets 50% extra attack. So it'd be 3000 damage. So 6000 damage at turn two. If it survives and that's not even thinking if it's level 30, level 30, it's going to do more than 6000 damage in one hit. It's crit chance is 40%, uh, which kind of puts on power with Thordor, uh, which also is 40%. 105 speed whereas Mortems is 108. So it is base quicker. You would need two boosts on Thordor to out speed it. I think, uh, yeah, you would need two. Um, I mean already base attack for Thordor at level 30 is 2066. Um, and what is it? You got to see what it is at level 11. Yeah, it gets an extra 100 at level 27. So maybe it's a hundred each time. So, uh, oh, should we just give it a shot? Should we, should we try and do a battle with Mortem? If we get it, um, I'm not expecting anything amazing here. Never used it before. And I'm not doing too great in the battles at the moment. So, uh, I guess we'll skip this one until we get Mortem, shall we? Mortem, Mortem, Mortem. Yes. Oh, should we start with Mortem? Kind of attempted, kind of attempted. Go on. Let's start with Mortem. See what we face up against. In Lockwood Mansion, Mortem Rex. Oh, it gets a trike. Oh, it's level 30. Oh, and it's been boosted. Oh, not so good. Um, yeah, we're pretty much dead here. He's just going to go for the Resilient, which is going to do 3600. Oh, damn.  And then I'm just going to get killed by the thing. Look at that.  Wow. Who didn't see that coming? Oh, well, yeah, instant invincibility. Who didn't see this coming? Well, at least I'll distract him, I suppose. I'm not holding much, like, as far as these battles go, all my boosts are held up in creatures and dinosaurs that I don't want to use anymore. I don't want to use our Dennis Maxima. He's got, like, 18, if not even more. Is this immune to stun? I bet it is. Oh, it is. Nice. Well done. Um, so I've got that. It's like, God. Um, and it's just like, I'm waiting for this event to happen. Sorry. I'm done. I'm like, concentrate on talking. I'm waiting for this event to happen.  Really?  Fair enough. Fair enough.  Yeah, I'm waiting for my boost to come back from our Dennis Maxima for this event, and then I'll dole out however I seem fair. Because I'm using a lot of my dinosaurs or creatures don't have any boosts on them. This guy does, because I was like, well, if there's events coming, I might as well just throw everything I've got onto him because I'm not going to be penalized at all for putting boosts onto it. It's a shame they had to put this in. I had to swap into this. Oh, here comes a tricor.   Yeah, this tricor is facing my whole team. Just stands at no chance against a tricor with that crit. Is it going to go up a regular hit? He always wastes it. Oh, that was a misstep. That was, yeah, this whole team was awful against a tricor. Oh, a boosted tricor. I mean, how much attack did I get? Yeah. Yeah, it's not doing very hard, is it? So what is the best situation to go for here? Like, I mean, he'll probably, I would assume. I'm going to assume. Like, look at that. My early Cosaurus. Oh, no, I did put some on early Dominus. Yeah, I thought you'd go for Incident of Incibility. So at least he's going to do what? How much damage? 1,215? Yeah. Okay. Well, fair enough. So I may as well just go for a distracting impact on it.  But if it switches out to something, at least I've nullified that attack. And I've still got my Ace in the Bag, which is my cloak and then big hit. And it depends. He's probably going to be quicker. He's not quicker. That's interesting. Oh, okay. Is that because I boosted? Yes, it's definitely because I boosted. So I might as well just go for... Okay, cleanses damage over time. He did go for that priority. He probably will go through. Does go through. I mean, I'm surprised I got two kills there. Like, my two dinosaurs there, which had literally no boosts. And that was my Utaran X and my Mortar Rex. But hey, we saw it. And basically in the current meta, even at Lockwood Manor, without any boosts, it's garbage. After all the time. But hey, at least we saw it. If you enjoyed that video, leave a like. Good luck with continuing unlocking Mortar Rex. I'm sure you'll get there. Until next time, I'll see you later. Oh, buh-bye.


Yesterday we announced the new YouTube subnetwork policy behind me. Click that eye up there to see the full video describing this policy. We will be making major changes to the freedom network model in response to comply with this new policy. And all of you networks powered by freedom will be getting an official communication from us all about the next steps soon. The biggest question all of you will have is, does that mean I have to stop making a business around YouTube as a network powered by freedom? The answer is no. You can still continue building a business with some major changes. Change one is, you can no longer claim you can partner YouTube channels under your brand. However, it is still very allowed to recruit for freedom. Recruiters have not been outlawed by YouTube. You also need to have a product or service that stands alone without freedom. In other words, you need to be able to be in business without offering freedom partnerships. For example, positionmusic.com behind me was a network powered by freedom. You can see the shiny freedom button here. And if you scroll down on their main page, you will see that they advertised freedom partnership right there. Looking at their post, you can see that they talked about freedom as an amazing MCN that you should partner with at freedom.tm. So what they're doing is they're recruiting for freedom, which is completely allowed. And position music has their entire business focused around giving you a music library that stands alone from freedom. In other words, if they stopped promoting freedom partnerships, their business still continues. That's what you need to change your business to as a network powered by freedom or a network in any MCN in case you're watching this outside of the freedom family. Have a standalone business that offers value to users such as channel optimization or YouTube analytics that combines Facebook with Twitter and other analytics providers. Or focus on being an ad sales company that gets brand deals or campaigns for YouTubers in addition to their YouTube revenue. There's many service provider models out there that you can transform your network business into to comply with the new YouTube subnetwork policy. I hope this helps everyone understand the ramifications of this new policy, that it is meant to strengthen the ecosystem and make the business more healthy by removing confusion that YouTube clearly stated was one of their motivations for creating this new policy. Do you have any questions about this? Ask in the comments below. We will make follow up videos to answer your questions and give some good examples of how networks are transforming themselves into service providers, talent agencies or media or ad companies to offer services other than partnership, which is now only possible through MCNs with a contract with YouTube like Freedom has. There is one comment I want to feature in today's episode by Liam says, that says, looks like Shane from Creative Nation was not wrong in stating that all MCNs must cancel all of their networks. It actually was wrong because the deadline he said was May 21st and that only applied to Creative Nation. And it's also wrong to say that all networks will be canceled. The correct statement is all networks must make changes to their business model to comply with the new YouTube subnetwork policy, but it's still very possible to make businesses that add value to YouTubers. There are huge companies out there that do exactly that, like Zephyr.com behind me. That's ZEFR.com. They provide value ads to YouTubers to create more intelligence to their data. And you can check them out at their website if you're curious. Our goal at Freedom is to always help you grow by giving you free graphics, music, tips and training, community resources and a lot of other things like sponsorships. And we have a lot more coming like gamers and many other services to help you grow because that is the spirit of Freedom. And we all help each other grow together as a family. How do you feel you have grown? Tell us in the comments below. A few episodes ago, I asked you to share your milestone videos. The ones that said, I just hit my 100 subscribers or I just did my first giveaway. I will be featuring those in future episodes of The George Show. But if you have additional milestones you want to share, send us links to those down there in the comments below. Who am I? I am Papa George, George Sunpai and many other names you the Freedom family has given me. I am George, CEO and founder of Freedom. And if you like this video, click the like button down there and subscribe to Freedom Central, the home of The George Show at youtube.com slash freedom. I am George and you've been watching We will grow together as a family because this is the Freedom family. You are part of it. We are all part of it and we're all growing together. So grow with us and partner with Freedom. That play now button right there on the video bar is all you need to click to get started.


Hello everyone and a warm welcome to all of you in today's panel discussion. Our topic for today is open code to open source building a business model. My name is Gandhali Samant and I lead the developer ecosystem and market engagement charter at GitHub. As you all know, open source is everywhere. There is hardly any industry where open source adoption or penetration hasn't happened yet. According to a survey conducted in 2017, 99% of organizations use open source in some format. And then there are organizations who have gone ahead and built their entire business model around open source. In today's panel discussions, we are going to talk to founders or co-founders or for such organizations who have built thriving businesses around open source. So without further ado, let's get introduced to our panel today. We will start with Neha Gupta, who is the co-founder of Keploi and open source API testing platform. She has been in product development for around seven years. She has also contributed to open source projects like XWiki, Genkin X, etc. And she knows to mentor students in different programs such as Google Summer of Code, GCI and Outreach. Welcome Neha. Thank you. We are very happy to have you here. Next we have Pranav Raj Sripparan, who is the co-founder and CEO of Chatwin. He's a source enthusiast and he's passionate about building developer communities. Welcome Pranav. Hey, thanks for having me here. I'm excited to be here. Our third panelist for the day is Harini Janki Ram. Harini is the co-founder and CEO of Roy.io, a low code platform to build your product back in minutes all in the browser. Prior to this, Harini was a VP of engineering at BlackRock and also a partner at an early stage VC. She's an advocate of open source software as well as women in pink. She holds a master's degree in computer engineering from University of Texas at Austin. Welcome Harini. Thanks for having me. Great to be here. And our fourth panelist is Rushabh Mehta, founder of Frappe and ERP Next. His passion is to revolutionize business software by building a high quality, free and open source ERP. ERP Next is a fully featured platform and can be used by teams in many different domains. Rushabh likes to be personally involved in all the activities right from software development to team building and does many different roles at his organization. Welcome Rushabh. Thanks. Thanks. I'm really great to be here. Okay. So as our topic suggests today, we are going to talk about open source to open core building business model. So my first question is to you, Neha. How do you differentiate between open source and open core? Okay. Okay. You know, since open source is now very ubiquitous and widely adopted. So everyone is pretty aware that it's really available software, right? But I want to start licensing that a true open source license or a platform is something that is allowing its users or anyone to use, edit, or even redistribute or sell to their heart's desire. And when it comes to open core, on the other, it's more like to me, it's a business model to monetize the open source software. So, you know, the idea is simple that build an open source product, but offer an additional premium functionality, which is under a commercial license that, you know, restricts the modification and redistribution of that. So that's according to me is a core difference in open source and open core. Thanks, Harini. Pranav, would you like to add anything to it? Yeah, I think so to me, like, you know, there is always a community as well as like, you know, a business for an open source based businesses, right? Like, for example, like, you know, as if you take an example of chat, we have a larger community who actually uses our open source product, which is, which has like, you know, most of the features, but like, you know, it doesn't have a set of features which might not be relevant for smaller users or smaller businesses. So I think the community, like to build the community, we need manpower, we need the capital, we need more and more people to get involved. So what I feel is like, so as a distinction, and as a difference between open source and open core, what I see is like, you know, to build the larger community, we need some way to capitalize the existing product. And so they're like, you know, we have some features which will be restricted under a certain license. So like, you know, at Chatwood, what we are building is like, you know, we have open source product, which is in MIT license. And there is a set of features which is under enterprise license, which has like, you know, which needs a license to, you know, use. So yeah, I think like, you know, like, for me, the difference is like, you know, open core actually like, you know, helps to build open source communities. Thanks, Pranavani. I think, I think it gave us good clarity about how to differentiate between open source and open core. My next question is for you, Rishabh. How do you build an open core business model? What is the thought process behind it? So, you know, we actually are fully open source, we are not in the open core side of things. And, you know, we decided that so open core and open source, you know, like Pranav said that there is a lot of good reason, right? I mean, you have to sustain your business at some level and open core is a great way to identify features. I come from a slightly different perspective that, you know, I mean, there is like, where do you draw the line? Ultimately, right? I mean, that is a very difficult question that people need to ask that. Ultimately, if you're going to ask your users to, if you're going to position your product as an open source product, you know, users do expect that, you know, your product is, you know, really free and open source, right? And for us, you know, we really monetize from hosting and services, you know, that's our model. So we kind of come from the, you know, maybe the outlier in this group here. Well, Outliers is good because you told us about how your open source business model works. Harini, would you like to add is your model open source or open core? Yeah, I can talk about our approach to open core or what we like to call commercial open source model as well. That's kind of prevalent right now. So we have a base open source model that's completely free. The code base, you can self host or you can, we also have a hosted version that's also free. And we have a paid model that we actually still launching soon. That gives you access to pro features that in addition to the base open source version gives you things that are dependent on more infrastructure or things that need you to maintain things that typically a one person or a team using the open source model might not need. So logically, it makes sense that those kind of features go into the hosted pro paid features. So that's how we are approaching the open core business model. Thanks Harini. So as we see, there is this trend today, right? It's growing to be open source or open core based organization.  Why did you decide to be open core based organization? So yeah, I think like, you know, before coming to that, I would like to answer like, you know, why it is open source. So like there is like, if you look at the regulations right now, right, like in GDPR or CPR or any data regulation, which is coming up in the world.  So at that point, it makes sense to have a self hosted, you know, kind of a software. And open source actually like, you know, helps us to do that in a pretty good way. And like when we actually like, you know, thought about making it open source and building a business out of it, there were a couple of options for us. One was, you know, we completely open source it and then build a cloud version of the software just like, you know, Russia was doing. Or we could actually like, you know, build the entire thing as open source and use support subscriptions from that. And the third thing was, which was proven and like, you know, which has a lot of potential was that like, you know, you have a base model where which is used by larger community and you have a set of features which is restricted to a set like to like, which will be used by either larger companies or like, you know, people who wanted customized features. So we figured that building larger businesses requires this kind of approach. And hence, we actually like, you know, went into being an open core company rather than like, you know, adopting other funds. Thanks, Rana. Rushabh, would you like to tell us why did you decide to be an open source based organization? So we started way back, right? I mean, we started in 2008, when there was very little awareness of open source business models and the prevalent thinking in 2008, 2009. I mean, 10 years ago was that only red hat makes money from open source, right? Nobody else does. I mean, today we are in a very different market, very different scenario where you have a whole bunch of open source companies, commercial open source companies that have come out. And I mean, it's essentially due to the rise of the cloud. I mean, once once the cloud became the de facto deployment model for software, you know, the whole movement to distribute software and cloud became open source and developers started taking more decisions. And, you know, the best way to get pro developer is through an open source. So it's just a very new thing that we have seen, you know, obviously, you know, the MongoDB going public and, you know, the acquisition of GitHub by Microsoft, right? These were very, very important events for the whole ecosystem to shift to a pro open source model. I mean, this wasn't there 10 years ago. 10 years ago, nobody would touch open source. We have seen like a whole tectonic shift in this business. I mean, we come from a more traditional mindset. I mean, I, you know, my business model was essentially what WordPress was that, you know, we will provide the software for free, but we will provide hosting. Currently, we don't distinguish between the software and it does give us some disadvantage. But I think in the long run, we do believe that there is, there will be enough proprietary or there will be enough, you know, services, commercial services that we will be able to build around hosting and around, you know, building a network and around the delivering services that, you know, we will be able to sustain even without going open core. We've stuck to it. I mean, our license has been GNU, GPL, V3 from the get go and I don't, and we don't intend to change it now. If I were to start today, maybe I don't know. See, so all of us know that I would say the success of open source projects are dependent on, is dependent on the number of people are contributing it or using it, right? So adoption is the key here.  Yeah, so we focus on a couple of things to drive adoption. First through awareness where we are, you know, trying to talk about what the project does and how it can help other people build their products easily through, you know, various things like content videos and easy to use templates that people can really fork and get started. And then we have like significant emphasis on growing the community via contributions and conversations and also integrations with other tools in the platform that we can, you know, collaborate with. So it's not like we are building in isolation. We are collaborating with other open source project creators and the community. We're also working on engagement at a community level by, you know, being proactive and addressing various issues, PRs and like discord messages, because I think at a core level, open source is basically community. So engaging with the community, keeping it thriving is one of our core goals as well. Thanks, Harini. Neha, would you like to add your thoughts to it? How do you guys drive adoption at Keploid? Yeah, I mean, we're still very early state, so I don't have much to add, but we've been getting a lot of traction from, you know, social channels like discussing on subreddit or of Go community developer communities. And these are helping us with, you know, getting a lot of feedback. And, you know, spreading the word throughout the community, people talking about Keploid in different blog posts, that is a major channel. And so since, you know, Keploid is an API testing platform which captures data in a very intensive manner. So to be 100% open source and that adoption to be present within the developer community was something that was our strategy to, you know, drive adoption amongst developers. Thanks, Neha. Thanks for sharing that with us. So my next question is actually open for all four of you. You know, I would like to, I would like each of you to kind of answer this. So what are some of the advantages as well as disadvantages that you have encountered of being an open source or an open core based organization? So Pranav, do you want to go first? Yeah, sure. So I think advantages are obvious. You get a lot of traction from an adoption from open source community. You have, you'd be able to build a good community of product enthusiasts without, like without much effort. So I guess that actually adds to the effort required for you to build such a community if you are a close source product is much high, that being open source reduces that.  How do you prioritize these different requests? Like, you know, how do you prioritize your product roadmap? How do you prioritize the requests which are coming in? So it's just that, like, you know, it's in the open, you need to build a process to get a handle on that. So I think like, you know, being open source is always an advantage because people can see the code. It helps you in sales because, you know, people can just test out the open source product and then, you know, reach out to you if it is interesting. And yeah, I mean, again, like, plus a good advantage is that, like, you know, you have a good community of product people, like people who love the product. Thanks for now. Harini, do you want, have you seen any disadvantages as well of being, you know, an open core based organization? Yeah, I mean, you know, there, as you as Prana mentioned, a lot of advantages, but in terms of disadvantage, it kind of adds another layer of complexity to a product that you're already building, essentially, because, you know, every feature or anything in your roadmap that you're thinking about, you need to think about where it fits, whether it fits logically in the open source, or it has to be in your kind of hosted, or like the paid version, and how do you actually then deploy it to the community in a way that is transparent, because, you know, the advantages of open source is also that you are maintaining a level of transparency for people. So essentially, you know, deploying different features in a more reliable and consistent manner across your open source and the close source kind of proprietary core model that you're building on top of it. So that's something that could be a disadvantage for your community. Thanks. Thanks, Harini. Rishabh, any other thoughts since you said you are in a little bit of outlier here, what are your experiences?  And I mean, so building a business is hard. Building a good product is even harder. And building a good product and a business and giving it away for free is like you're just, you know, just adding all the, all the difficulties, right? This is the most difficult part in a way, right? Because you are giving away a product for free. You are, you know, building, you're building something good first, right? Because open source and open core, whatever you want to call it is essentially brutally meritocratic. I mean, just because you're giving away your stuff for free doesn't mean people are going to use it. They want it to be as good as consumer-grade software. So that's the expectation. They want it free, right? And then it comes with a lot of expectations from the community. It comes with, you know, a lot of entitlement. You know, it's communities are not kind. I mean, you know, if you're giving away something for free doesn't mean that they'll always love you for it, right? They will expect more. They'll expect you to build features. Even contributors, right?  I mean, early-stage projects love contributors, right? But once you hit a point, you know, you don't want contributors because you realize that contributors are not here for long, right? Especially people who are just going to contribute one thing and then go away and then leave it to you to maintain their contribution. So you really want to build a community that's long-lasting, you know, that has a long-term perspective are going to be around for a long time. So I think there are a lot of disadvantages in building this model. The big advantage is obviously that, you know, you get distribution from a business perspective. You get marketing and distribution for free. But yeah, it's a very hard business to be very honest. Thanks, Rishabh. Nihar, do you have anything else to add to what all the other three panelists say? Yeah, I mean, majorly, I agree with the advantages that there is unlimited potential in terms of getting feedback from the community. Since there is mutual transparency, you know, you can talk about and mutually bring it on with upcoming mature bugs, fixes, you know, community likes and dislikes and the community support. It only gets trickier or confusing, you know, as a disadvantage. Sometimes you get an overwhelming input from the community on various topics. For example, this recently happened that we wanted to add product telemetry to the open source Kiploy platform and 90% of the users are okay with it. But there are, you know, 5 to 10% which are very highly vocal when they are against something or they do not like something. And this kind of situations create a confusion with the direction sometimes. And it is not just with a, you know, a simple feature it can get into and even to the technical architecture and different things. So, yeah, that's something that where it gets to gear. Thanks, Neha. So you and Rishabh both brought out aspects of community in this whole process, right? So my next question and again, I'm from Github. So our focus is all around developers. So I really want to know what has been an experience for each of you to target this developer audience via open source using your platform. So again, Neha, maybe we'll just start with you and go around the clock. Sure.  We talked to developers on Github around, you know, those discussions, what could be added more or not. And even when we changed our Kiploy logo, we took leverage of Github community and the, you know, sources that we have. And it really helps us with coming up different aspects of seeing a feature or our user experience and taking into actions. So that way, you know, it is really helping us to target developers and take feedback from them and, you know, reiterate the loop. Thanks, Neha. Pranav, what has been your experience? Yeah, I think the reason why we started open source and like, you know, targeted developers was that during our, like the place where I worked last, like, you know, we have this internal tool which we used for customer support and all the customer data. Like it's generally like, you know, not the actual business.  Most people don't like it. And it's always standard.  And for that reason, you might be like, you know, building the entire thing from scratch. So we wanted to avoid that. We wanted to give people a base platform where they can build, they can build their tools, like, you know, to organize their customer data to organize their support request and stuff like that. So what we have provided is like, you know, we build a platform where we can, like developers can build on their own integrations and their own extensions on top of chat boot. And so far we have seen quite a lot of things which we couldn't even imagine if we are doing it as a as a flow source product. So I think like, you know, being being direct to a developers and like, you know, getting their attention is really important to us. Thanks. Thanks for now. Rishabh, anything that you want to add here since you have been doing this for a very long time. And also, you know, if you have seen any change in last few years. Yeah, I mean, so we actually learned two large projects. One is ERP next, which is like, which is targeted to almost every business out there because it does financial accounting. And there we are not mostly there the kind of developers we are dealing with are mostly freelancers. You know, so some company wants an ERP next implementation, they'll get hold of a freelancer. And then, you know, that freelancer may or may not continue to contribute in the community that and out of that, you know, we've probably able to identify four or five really good long term contributors through the community, right. And the other big project we run is Frappist framework, which is essentially the tool that we used to build ERP next. And it's kind of a low code rapid application development. You know, that's what it used to be called before the term low code was, you know, I've seen I believe through both of those cycles. So it's a rapid application development tool, low code framework in these days. And that is more targeted to developers, though we haven't really been out there promoting Frappe as much as ERP next. And you know, our experience is, is, you know, I mean, it really depends on the quality of software you're, you're giving out right.  I would say it's acceptable.  So it's very brutally meritocratic out there. So yeah, I mean, that's Thanks. Thanks, Rishabh Harini. Do you want to add anything to this last question?  They're looking for something that solves their problem and they don't care if the product is open source or not. Whereas like, if you're focusing on building a developer tools product, which is what we are doing with the Dev tool, and I can speak for myself or like how other developers feel. If there's a completely closed source option, and there is an open source option, I tend to gravitate towards the open source because, you know, if you hit some feature limit or something like that, you can continue to extend at a core and contribute back. And so with Roy, we are building like a no code platform that basically allows you to get started like a no code, but then you can continue to extend at a core level anytime you need. And our experience with, you know, seeing how developers are extending it in different scenarios has been really interesting various kind of use cases and that's has been a really good learning experience for us. Thanks. Thanks so much, Harini. So I think we are on time and this brings us to the close off today's panel discussion. Thanks a lot, Neha, Pranav, Harini and Rishabh for, you know, sharing your journey, your experiences of building your organizations. I think this is a growing trend today. So your experiences will help a lot of, you know, new startups and organizations who are going in the same directions as each of you did. So with that, thanks a lot once again. And I would hope to talk to you all off soon.


Going on everyone Sam here with late sports cards been 23 tops museum collection baseball hobby six box half case break number 40 Pick your team style names and themes Alex D with the Giants Alexander s Mets and a capee Rockies Christopher J with the rays Christopher M Royals David O at Red Sox drew H blue J's Jack s Phillies Jacob R with the Dodgers Jennifer Y Orioles Jeremy H as the twins Cardinals Diamondbacks and Braids Kathleen J with the Brewers Ken K angels Nathan R Nationals O and B Reds policy athletics Peter M. Yanks Peter s with the Astros and the Padres Bobby R with the Cubs Spencer with the Marlins Tom J with the White Sox Tomi Yuki K Mariners Sawyer C with the Pirates Merry Christmas from your uncle Tyler Vaughn B with the Rangers and the Tigers and West are with the Guardians. So good luck everybody. Let's do it Here we go Just the praise I did mark the Braves down again for you guys they're like $200 off almost which is kind of insane Miggie Punea Seeger O'Neill Cruz and Chipper Jones the 50 for the Braves that is is it a sign the Braves are gonna hit in definitive as well Very well could be very nice Chippa that is a gold judge to 2 at 99 Alvarez Hank Aaron and Peter Lonzo to 20 Game used Jersey for the Mets Rafi Devers blue to 150 and Jack Peterson is a giant to at 50 That is gonna be thank you Tom with a couple of mixer spots tonight Tommy fans big stuff Michael see by the Braves. Thank you Michael see Sold out on the day. Let's go y'all. We got to hit you something big We got it. We got a pit pull something that rivals the trout. Thank you, Michael. I'll go man for you Thanks Michael appreciate your brother Say connect. Yep. That is a Sean Murphy that's crazy and Christian Yelich. Let's go. It's you one ninety nine cat wanted some yellow shadows There's there's one. There we go. Very nice. Congrats. Cat David with spotting artifacts tonight. Let's go man. It's really stuck in my head. F&T with the two mixer spots Once you get a song started. I really don't know what to do man. Can we start like singing some mouths? Come on now That is Cedric Mullins two ninety nine for the oats It'll be forest and lane forest and lane tonight. Yes, forest and Junami and Jonathan India for the Reds to seventy five on the primary pieces quad game used in Jersey That's heavy. We'll do that one last. It could be a frame could be a book Nothing better than elementary school That is a Mitch Keller to 50 there you go Sawyer. Congrats, buddy You'd Mitch Keller. Yes, sir Michael C also picking up a quintuple case spot and a Cup spot. So thank you Michael appreciate you buddy Keller good pictures represent, baby Hell yeah, Riley green the two ninety nine for Vaughan and the Tigers corporate Carol Babe Ruth Nice one there and for the Guardians 12 of 20 Bam Bam Jay Ram Jose Ramirez Bam Bam. That's on that one Like I'll see you with another cup spot. Let's go Michael. Thanks, buddy. All right, see we got in here Let's see it. Let's see it. Let's see it. Let's see it. assuming. It's gonna be a frame. It feels freemee It feels freemee. It is freemee. It's gonna be a gold frame nice Purple John Cole Stanton ninety nine Stanton Volpe a Padre Fernando Tatis, Jr. Five of ten. That's disgusting man Let's go good stuff there Padres Peter s Here we go, dude. Ooh Five of ten El Nino El Nino Going into a mag for you. Congrats on that. Mr. Peter s Here we go, Riley green again This time on the copper that cranky and Sandy Alcantara to 299. Let's go Spencer.  I like it 139 of 299 very nice Reading Randy Johnson show hey The Angels and CC Sabathia 97 of 299 for the inks CC Miguel Vargas to 299 And a Machado and Carlos Correa for the twins to 35 game use Jersey Game use the joysie Trish and Cosas Smith Jacob Grom and another Christian Helich. There we go cat to 199 to Christian Helich as far as the autos now Good stuff cat dirty There's they are. Yeah, I think so Is that the off-way ones? Yeah, it might be the off-way ones. They wear off-way. Do they? I probably did but I just didn't realize it. A-Rod and Tony Gonsolin to 75 for the Dodgers game use jerseys Courtney with an artifact spot. Let's go Riley green nasty nest there. Yes, it is nest their Cortez and Will Clark will the thrill to 199 for the Higantis Zenda Bogarts to 299 for the Padres A-Rod and dual that is Jordan Walker Paul Goldschmidt 27 of 50 the Cardinals not too shabby there Purple Jacob de Grom 77 of 99 Bobby Miller and Larry Walker for the Rocks 41 of 50 It is very Walker Zack Neto Gabi Moreno Paul Goldschmidt to 75 for the Cardinals primary pieces 44 of 75 red to 50 Boba Shet Blue Jays Is nice artist-proof to 25 or to 50 is Shohei and auto to the 299 for the National CJ Abrams second-year CJ Going to DC Josh Young Canvas collection and Jaren Duran to at 25. There is a little bit of peeling on the top there I'll send an empty box and wrapper with the Red Sox. Sorry about that Boston still a nice card overall though Bleed of Matt McClain to 150 for the Reds Reese Hoskins and another Tony Gonsolin game use Jersey this time to 99 primary pieces intrigued by the Tony Gonsolin Rare double Gonsolin Even seen in there That is a Roger Clemens Senga Taj Bradley and Logan Gilbert Throwbacks 9 of 10 with the throwback. Yep. There is peeling on the top unfortunately It looks like at least yeah, we'll send an empty box and wrapper. It's still nasty though. That's really sick the throwback mariners logo Throwback Mariners jerseys there Fred Shintaro Fujinami to 50 That is a Jordan Walker canvas collection And Andres Himinetz 3 of 25 going to the Guardians Game used at primary pieces quad Chesh Chisholm and Tyler Freeman 5 of 15 Rookie Otto on card for the Guardians Last museum box of the day that is a Bobby Miller for the Dodgers Upper Poo Halls and Logan. Oh hoppy 10 of 25 nice low numbered rookie Jersey auto Don't worry. Be oh hoppy. Be oh hoppy. Go to the angels. Congrats. Halos Very subtle take no op. Yeah, or our J. A. All right quick recap. We've got a Tony Gonsolin Paul Goldschmidt another Tony Gonsolin Jonathan India a duel of Goldie and Jordan Walker. Jack Peterson Mitch Keller a Carlos Correa. You've got Andres Himinetz jaren Duran Peter Lonzo and Logan Gilbert to 10 Autos we had Sandy Alcantra CJ Abrams CC Sabathia Christian Yelich twice Will Clark a Larry Walker Chipper Jones Logan Oh hoppy Jram and Tyler Freeman 15 and then El Nino Fernando Tatis junior 5 of 10 gold framed I'll do it for the break everybody. Thanks again for the Phil coming up next is the finish