What's up? What's up? What's up? I'm Sean and I'm Corey and we are back with episode number 15 of No Labels Necessary.  If you don't know me and Jacory, we are music marketers, music entrepreneurs. We have a music agency that's helped many artists blow up and also major labels do what they need to do for their clients. But here, we just talk about content, business, music. We just having fun, y'all. We just having fun. So, as always, y'all know, we like to start with the advice each episode, right? And I'm talking about some serious advice. I got some dope advice, game-changing advice. One could even say life-changing advice. And one could even say life-changing advice. So, check this out. If you don't have anybody on your team that's acting like this, then you need to rethink your team. This is why Young Thug's engineers underrated. Sometimes you don't have everything available to you. Jeffrey, for example, I mixed the whole thing and then the night before it came out, I get a text that's two or three pages long of notes of changes that he wants to be made. But I no longer have access to a studio. It is 3 a.m. I can't get one. So, all I have is my headphones and I'm sitting in a hotel room and I'm like, how am I going to do this? How? And I don't have that much time because I have to turn it into mastering by 11 so that mastering can do it by like four so that we can turn it in before midnight. So, what I did was I only had my headphones, but I needed another reference point. So, I rented an Uber and I sat in the back middle seat and I plugged in to like the aux and I was like, dude, turn it all the way up and raise all the windows. And he's like, no. And I'm like, please. And he's like, no. I'm like, cool. I'm going to get out because I don't want to go anywhere. I don't have a car. I'm in New York City. And I was like, I need a reference point.  I don't care. Like just go wherever. And so I just sat there like tweaking mixes in the Uber. And like the dude was miserable. Shout out to that Uber driver. Bruh. Shout out to that Uber driver. Shout out to the engineer first and foremost. It's the first and foremost. I wish I even called your name. But boy, y'all need somebody on your team like that. If you don't have nobody on your team like that. Boy, rethink it. And this is a real conversation about teams and just what you're willing to do for even your own self.  Thug is big enough where that could have been a great moment. And he called somebody who was hating the whole idea of it.  This is the mixed engineer. This is before it happens. This is how it happens. And I'm getting paid at the same time. Yeah. The pay part would have got me, honestly. I might have been, you know, New York, maybe a little suspicious. You know what I'm saying? Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but that's a fact.  But that's what I'm saying. I'm saying just like the chances, it sucks that it had to happen that way. But you know what? I like most music enough or I'm open to enough music, even if it wasn't some music that I super loved.  You know what I mean? Like this is kind of cool. Like this guy's doing this and I'm hearing this and then especially if it's something that end up being big. Yeah. That would have been a cool moment for me. But the level of creativity that it takes to not just say, oh, I'm done. Yeah. All right. Let me go find the Uber driver so I could have another reference. All right. Then to be able to debate and go to bed like, yo, man, come on, bro. Like make this happen. Negotiate your whole process. These are the type of people, bro. We need on the team, man. Yeah, bro. You don't find anything like that. I'm not everywhere. I don't know where you found him, but not everywhere. Right. Team period, man. If you got that kind of mentality beyond the team, people are always asked about internships and things like that, whether it's us or anybody else. Hey, you moving like that. People will figure out some way for you. Yeah. It will figure out some way for you. Yeah. Yeah. Bro, it's like the I'm trying to make the equivalent that for us. Like I'm like your Wi-Fi go out and you set up an app from a flip phone or something. You know what I'm saying? That will that will win me over. Yes.  So I was a teacher for a period out of college a year in this program, not the traditional school system and the students like, you know, a lot of them were down bad. I had some tough situations as one woman in particular. I remember she had just had a child. I think she already had one mom was on drugs and all that stuff wild and stuff. And and her lights went out so she couldn't do her homework. And I don't know why she had to do this on the floor. But she did her homework on the floor on her cell phone. I would the cell phone light? What do you mean? No, she did her homework on her cell phone. Like some stuff, but it wasn't like no regular. Oh, you just got to push some buttons. You legit have to write. Yeah, she did her entire homework on her cell phone. And I was like, you better than me.  But I was just like, yo, this is crazy. This is dedication. That's that's dope. You know what I mean? And that's what I think of when I hear those type of situations. Yeah, I was like, I got to get this done. So it's not surprised.  That she's in a pretty good situation right now. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you can't she's not in control of the mom situation and everything, but her career got some good jobs, you know, kids are doing doing decent. So all I'm saying is if you ain't doing your homework on the ground, she must be like a great. Or whatever. I couldn't give her a bad grade.  You know, you grade accordingly the information. You know what I'm saying? But I feel that, you know, you know, there was some bad PR. It wasn't it was it was subjective. Right. There were some subjective parts of. Yeah. All right. All right. So the hardcore stuff. Yeah. She got judge hardcore and that I couldn't do nothing about. No, it just is what it is. This is a hard woman story, but this is wrong. Yeah. Hey, yeah, wrong is wrong.  No, no, no, she got decent grade, but it's interesting because this also relates to even if you think I like think about like, did he having people run for the cheesecake? Yeah.  Right.  He took him a year to get his internship with. What was the label at the time, but with under Andre Andre Hurrell uptown records, I believe took him a year to get that because he was just like trying to convince him trying to convince him. I think he kept bothering a heavy D at the time and then heavy D will be like, yo, this kid and then under like he just kept on hitting those touch points until finally they were like, all right, cool. We'll give you a shot and then slowly, but surely he ends up in the position that he ended up in. So look, this is something that we get in the music industry. I work ethic is rewarded, but at the same time we're in 2022 and I know people will be like, I for damn sure wouldn't do that. I ain't wanting to say it. You know what I'm saying? That's what I'll be like, man, this is three. All right, maybe I can get up at like six and then see. Yeah. But it's also me not knowing how long it takes to do something like that.  Yeah, yeah, I would imagine the same just because of the the engineering stuff. Like it seems like it's quick, but it's not oftentimes. I already know. Yeah. But I mean, I think it's cool though, because it's like these other moments where you find out which team member is going to rock hard.  Yes, you know, when things are good and everything is set to go the way I'm pretty sure, you know, things that ended when they were supposed to be happy. It's been a normal day, but it'd be the moments like these either the the random ones that come out like this or the force ones like the ones that did he push you through. Yep. But either way, like these are the moments where you can tell like, oh, this team member is really like for the cause, you know, not even just for this specific situation, but like just for the cause entirely. Exactly. And that's that's what it comes down to. That's really the point. What you're trying to find out in whatever circle at any time is not just about that specific instance. Like you said, it's just like, do you care? Yeah, exactly.  Like I have to move on this type of time. However, there's moments in times when shit's going down and let's just get through it. Then we can recoup, ask questions later, you know, figure out how to avoid that scenario later. Not just sit down, soak or say this is hard or let this time go by. The whole game is minimizing L's. That's the way I personally see it. Like have any L's. If I can get over this and make this a W right now and then figure out how to get to that W easier later, then that's what I'm going to do. I'm not about to just take an L that I don't have to take. That's what I see. Yeah, bro. This one though, a player that Alex, a movie talking about a player. Let's let's talk that talk real, real quick. Then we can transfer to we got another amazing topic for y'all. But like talk about those eight players. Man, what do I start? So I mean, eight players are essentially the people on your team that are like the superstars, right? So these are your Jordans. You're saying your your uh, I'm just gonna leave it at that. These are your Jordans pretty much right? Like the people that you know that can not only do the job that you gave them, but oftentimes like go above and beyond, right? Either within the capacity of their own role or even outside stuff. Like we have team members that maybe sometimes pick up slack in jobs that they don't aren't getting paid for it. You know what I'm saying?  Let's do it and get the job been right. Those are those are the eight players in my head versus I guess a B seed in below players, like someone that maybe just does like the job just good enough. You know what I'm saying? Mm hmm. B players are probably pleasure to do it like just good enough. You know what I'm saying? Like a nothing like I it'll be hard for Sean to justify firing me. You know what I'm saying? Cause I did technically do the job. You know what I'm saying? Like like you asked me to do it even but the A players and all I'm going to do with Sean told me to do and I'm going to take two or three extra steps to make sure maybe his other thing is done or I even fix this thing. Sean even realized that the way he asked me to do it is fucked. This is the better way to do it for real for a right. So I'm going to go ahead and do it. That's like that's how I look at like your eight players are the people that go above and beyond and like they're just the superstar people on your team. Like literally the people that like you know they quit today.  You know what I'm saying? Another thing about the eight players that I've constantly heard right and observe as well right. The whole idea is eight players like to be around eight players B players don't want to be around eight players because they make them look bad. Yeah. So oftentimes they're going to help you hire people that allow them to look good and them to just keep moving at the pace that they move at. Yeah. Eight players they weed that out eight players only want to move eight players because they know the type of effort they're putting in. They know the type of quality. They got a certain standard and they like to learn right and be become better and only other eight players can do that for them. Yeah.  They know what kind of time they're on. So it becomes that virus because your team itself creates the culture. It's not just you. You can say I put in these rules and da da da da but just like you can you can raise a child there in the house with you but then you send them off to school and they're in school most of the time and the people they hanging around is going to find how they are and how they move. Your team works with the rest of your team and you you're not the only person who's defining how the company or group moves. Whether that's like you're a legitimate company or just like your crew or your your artist collective whatever that might look like. So the A player A B C player is actually one of the simplest things that I found that that's actually easy to apply or like kind of observe over time where you know sometimes you hear like a lot of these theories and invite pieces of advice but you don't get a chance to apply them. I've seen it be you know I've seen it be pretty true and they also say B players if you don't if you have too many of them and then you also have A players but you have let's just say you got one player and four one A player and four B players the A player will come down to the B players after time most likely because they're like I'm not about to do all this extra shit. Yeah they're getting away with it. I was getting on it too. I did that in school. I remember there was this one project that it was like we had to decorate a tissue box or something right. Yeah it was like science and we had to do something. Yeah look bro. I don't know. I don't even remember all the details probably something with paramecium and stuff like that. But we had to decorate this tissue box somehow and I went hard on it because I was artsy and stuff and I like to like so it was just like an artist project and I would and I could draw real great and all that. So I went hard and I was beautiful and I got like a hundred. All right. But then I saw other people who got hundreds too.   And you know I was still doing good and getting decent grades without doing anywhere near to trying. You know and that was probably happening at other times in school here and there. But that was the only time I could visually see it. The amount of effort. You know what I'm saying.  How is this the same. We are not the same here. You know what I mean so person for other people. He said what I was that person with other people in school. Hey man what you did what. I'm not doing all that like man. I wouldn't either. You know what I'm saying. Exactly to the club. Exactly. So no once once that happened. It was clear so and then I could so I could see how that affects the A players. Yeah. And then the last thing I remember because it wasn't Alex but like the first person I've heard mentioned the A player theory was A players have a certain level of respect for you built on the people that you bring in to the community. You know what I mean. Yeah.  It's one thing to bring them in and they might give you that benefit of the doubt that first because you know you bring them in but when they see this person is performing at a certain level and you keep them around. They're like I like what's up to Cory.  So it's always in your best interest of course. A players are more expensive. Right. Worth it. Right. One thousand percent like Alex always says the best way to keep a player is to pay them like one point five times the market rate. He's like because they're going to make you like a three to five X return or whatever. Right. So the money is worth it. Right. No one A player is worth like three B players or something like that. Exactly. It does depend on what business you're saying that does depend but you know that the fact that one of them is definitely worth more of everybody else because it's also inefficient to have like three four people where you could just have one person doing it until you get to a level of business where now you have to specialize like and most artists and teams not even just new artists most teams for artists do not scale past a point where you can truly have specialists as a part of a core team or the core company because even a fifty dollar fifty million dollar business is a small business. All right. And you might only have ten people on your team for that which is cool. Right. That's great. But the type of thing that you're doing you might not have anybody who could just let's say just do influence your campaigns and just do your social media management and get paid like a true A player. Right. Because they're a player social media management and then just be your manager and you typically going to have overlap.  You might have one manager one. I don't know. Right. Just break down your team but you have to be and that's the that's the interesting part. So you got that one side of you have to have the right business model the right timing and still just find the right people. Sometimes you find A players early or in their development. So but so they're A where they are but maybe not where you need to go. So A players need to stay A players and then on the other side for those of y'all who might be looking at jobs for yourself. It doesn't pay to be the A player in some categories as it does in others. You could be a B player in some categories and get paid more than the A player in other categories. All right. And that's something to keep in mind. Right. It just just is what it is. You could just be a social media page runner and help people come up with their posts but it's hard to scale yourself. Right. And you're but you're really really good at it and you're only doing it for one one person versus I don't know by you are running ads for multiple people. And I'm not even when I only want to say ads but like let's just say you're a marketing strategist in general. That part you might that person might be C and so my social media management but if they can be a marketing strategist and help manage a team and they're not the best manager that's still worth more because they can manage five people while you're just one person. So as you move throughout the marketplace know that it's not it's not a flat marketplace.  You could be really great in this category but again like but these people got four or five different categories. I know publishing licensing management. You know what I mean like there's all these different categories and as a whole I'm still worth more than you know what I mean. Yeah yeah that's right. I feel like too sometimes you get especially in music like you get forced into being a B player in certain situations because music is the industry where it's like how can I get this one person to do eight different things right because like I said the money's slow right. So it's like I might only be good at social media manager but you got me running errands for your own tour. You got me in your music you know what I'm saying you might have me shooting your content for you and then now you're judging me as really a C player in some of these situations because like man over here but everything else I'm B.C. and it's bringing my average down and I don't know you already kind of touch on that but I do feel like we get caught up a lot of that in music because it's a game of how can I get as much money as possible for as little as possible spending right. And like you said a lot of times like eight players are going to be expensive you know. So it's like do I go and pay this person this marketing manager a hundred and fifty K a year and that's all they focus on or do I keep letting my cousin do it. You know what I'm saying they're really his main thing but he good at it. He good enough.   So much bro like you mean you see some rappers sometimes big bro and you'll be you just might stand next to me but I do been standing there for like seven years. I'm saying like what does he do brother and you might learn a little bit about him like oh he's just like the homie that kind of do a little bit of everything like bro how do you get this far.  It's like you're still here you know what I'm saying so but I agree with that bro it's like it's a it's a bad it's a terrible sickness and music with that bro. Y'all got to start hiring people man ours be allergic to hiring people bro. I don't care nobody's like you've got to start hiring you'll start bro they be allergic to hiring people bro. Yeah that's a whole skill of itself too. So maybe that's part of it right. Yeah that's fair. I don't know maybe we should start something where we're just going around helping artists hire people every fall. Yeah we know how to we know how to build up some cool people a marketing agency you know what I mean marketing teams we build that maybe we should try we should start building marketing. We should start building marketing teams. I might take that deal y'all heard it here first. Yeah definitely hit us up hit us up you all know how to get at us if you don't know how to get at us do them any ways online then you probably not qualified. Yeah so hit us up. It is up now I'm just playing but hey we got another topic YouTube has changed and it's changing constantly. There's been some major changes that all artists need to keep an account. And one of our brand man network members actually brought this up in the community. If y'all don't know about brand man network it's our private community for artists music managers some dope professionals really a lot of dope people in there and we talk we have some conversations. A lot of one-on-ones it's free completely free completely free but you still have to get accepted like everybody can't just hop in it so brand man network com go ahead and click the invite if you want to give it a try but check this out. Nina Asta said has anyone else noticed that YouTube is recommending more videos with low view counts in the last couple of months I've gotten way more videos that have views in the hundreds that I usually do and it was dope like Rohan said he saw the same thing Mandy I start saying myself I was like yo actually I have seen it but it didn't click until I saw somebody mention I'm like damn I have been seeing a whole bunch of views in the hundreds right so there's some things that this relates to right and that's what I want to talk about before I do that I'll pull up this YouTube page and you can already see if I go down far enough there's going to be well look at this 636 views all right let's see if we can find another one real quick five days five days that's 3.3K that's not the the lowest 29 views that one crazy but he had to always say I work I said he had to have just a little upload that yeah exactly exactly and I'm not used to being early to a lot of stuff so I was when I started noticing that and they said that I'm like okay and it's not just happening for me it's definitely a thing and why is this happening well I'll say this it's clear that YouTube is leaning into becoming an even greater discovery platform than it already is and a lot of this is driven by shorts that's my theory and the ongoing beef with tix off and the ongoing beef with tix off of course of course because when and this is a positive thing for all of us to be able to take advantage of all right because you know YouTube it got to the point where it was only based off of the behavior of what you previously were looking at which is great that's highly interest-based that's what makes potent tiktok potent that's what makes YouTube very potent both verses Instagram all right it's not just your social sphere it's the interest-based sphere but with that being said if you are blatantly based off of my last videos which most people were then I'm missing my subscribers all right so the people I'm subscribed to I'm not seeing much or people are subscribed to me they're forgetting about me and that's doing a disservice so I'm not discovering content that I have a likelihood to be interested in but then on the other side you also can get caught in your loop and if you see this obviously I've been watching shit on our channel right but you see more from this channel for you you see that tag yeah so they're going to start recommending things that they just think you might like out of your sphere right so it's like he hasn't been to the he's been behaving like he's interested in these topics so I'm going to show him more stuff on this topic but if I saw that he had the behavior that I liked on a channel in general I'm just going to offer a full playlist mixed from that channel and that's just pushing people down a rabbit hole that's all they're trying to say like hey man we think you're going to like this rabbit hole based on some of the stuff that you've done so you can get somebody to watch probably like three four year videos consistently I don't know if there's a watch time how the algorithm is building this particular recommendation out but is pushing towards discovery not just of individual videos but a full playlist of channels that you like so this stuff is going to like this is going to keep happening now even actually no I might not have the screen share for people who I didn't see that last post so let me go back and show this so if you see the mix or that I keep highlighting and it says Raymond network more from this channel for you that's something that they're going to be doing and be doing more consistently if you go to our channel page it's for them using they've made these separations right and why are they done these separations because for one shorts and videos are getting mixed up in that shit was just a horrible experience for the users we all hated that I like dang I can't even find a regular video I want to watch because y'all got all these shorts in a way but now with shorts being in his own tab and they have their own analytics completely which we haven't used shorts heavily coming soon folks coming very soon now that they have those separates and the stats being taken separately we have a foundation on YouTube now to do exactly what Leon Cohen was talking about have these shorts help people discover the long form content but you have to have it in these separate spaces for that to happen because before what was happening was the shorts even on the data side was getting included in the channel watch time so if I drop a video for 20 minutes on average and you're watching 10 minutes of that on average that means my channel's watch time is 10 minutes but I started posting all these shorts because I'm trying to give yous and blow up then all of a sudden my watch time dramatically drops and that was what was happening it was discouraging users from doing that but now they got it separate so people can consume your shorts your watch time stays the same so everything can continues to grow in its own category but it doesn't guarantee that either I've seen a few channels where they only do shorts no they not only do shorts they do a hell of a lot of shorts because they're trying to grow and get looks but their regular content isn't good enough so they'll have a whole bunch of content with tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of views but then their regular long form content has like I don't know 300 views and it's all like that there's no content with a thousand views but the content was horrible to be honest like because it was almost like oh yeah we just made our shorts video longer dude to try to like rework it so you know don't try to hack it that way that's not gonna work I think people think you can just like they did have a lot of subscribers a couple of them like so you can use shorts to try to just grow that way from a subscriber standpoint but you're not going to get the full benefits of YouTube if you don't use the actual videos at least that's I don't see that happening right now I don't always prioritize the long form like always prioritize the long form why you think that is more ad space yeah like it's as simple as that yeah I mean we're gonna put an ad and a half in your 30 second short but we can you tell them how to feel you watch earlier they had like four ads in the first like 20 minutes of it you know what I'm saying so it's like you can't do that on a short right yeah that's real yeah but I do like it it makes me think of the view boom you get when you first start making TikToks you know people always talk about how like their first handful of TikToks you know what I'm saying get like a couple hundred couple thousand views and you can tell us TikTok incentivizing people to stay right and keep making content in my head this is YouTube's way of saying like hey small creator all is not lost you can still get some attention on here because there's anybody's ever posted a YouTube video knows there's nothing more discouraged and then shooting that video and then come back a week later and she got like nine views on it you know what I mean it hurts bro you know because the time commitment for YouTube is so much greater than the time commitment for other platforms right for the possibility of very little to no return on it and you know what I'm saying in the view standpoint so I feel like you said and they know like hey in order for us to seriously compete with TikTok we can only be I guess attractive to them in the matter of discovery and money right which is that too one of the two biggest plan cars we have to also be friendly to the small creator you know because TikTok is very friendly to the small creator like you could be a nobody today post for the first time tomorrow and a couple of weeks have an audience right and have people viewing your content and so that is always at least in my head what was going to make TikTok be more attractive than YouTube is like hey my the amount of work I have to put into my YouTube channel to get a hundredth of the amount of engagement and views compared to TikTok is crazy you know what I'm saying like you know really any other social platform but now it's like YouTube is like hey little guy you know what I'm saying you don't have to really compete with Mr. Beast you don't give you some some fee space just like we give him right like you don't have to now know how to hack the algorithm and create an amazing thumbnail all those all those things matter right for the watch time to continue going up and to get people to kind of stick around but you at least get a couple of views on it you know what I'm saying without any of that stuff which hopefully motive as you would want to get better at that stuff and keep and keep sticking around so that that was kind of the first thing I saw cause like all the channels I've seen that have this going on like they look like they're not completely new but a lot of them haven't been around for long like I was watching well made me notice that like this gaming channel I found a couple days ago I mean that guy like 300 subscribers you know what I'm saying like I'm like why is he on my feet you know what I'm saying like I did you like his content I didn't like it you know it was cool see it was it was it was on brand that's dope that's that right there is the encouraging thing for artists right where we're trying to build this is the time to give YouTube another shot mm-hmm all right like you Corey said it sucks to go through all that work post and barely get any views and that's how it was for a good minute yeah bro right now that windows open but we don't know if it's gonna last forever so take advantage while that time is here because I mean seeing so many people with a couple of hundred views I was definitely I don't know it did it did shock me for a second because I would first I would literally just say why is it showing up that's how you how much you know YouTube wasn't so much of a discovery platform for people that were new for such a long time that we didn't even say oh I'm early to this or oh what is this we literally say why is it showing yeah like it doesn't have enough views to show at this time almost like you offended right that's a that's a different type of mindset so they're changing that mindset in the consumer for a while and if you can tap into that while it is a thing and people are getting used to like just checking things out you just did you subscribe to the dude or like at least hit the like button or I hit the like button I didn't subscribe it's like a lot for me to subscribe I need at least three videos it takes a lot for anybody to subscribe to that's a whole another point right but that's that's love right there like you got somebody only you said 300 subscribers no yeah yeah yeah like maybe 300 300 subscribers like Jacory right who's out here moving in social bona fide social media influencer and shit got clout and weight out here finding his stuff randomly with only 300 and then hitting the like button right you never know who's watching am I his over he is over well how'd you miss it you got to give him some money though yeah give him a show he'll give another like put him on the channel we interview him he's he is over this is not even close it's not even close we go we go we go get into the gaming space at some point right well I don't know I don't know like now maybe we need to talk about the niche what kind of content was that's game that's gaming content what kind of games you know what kind of games what are you gonna pop up when you're in a weird site you know you know what I'm saying I don't know if I'm ready to expose my game and taste you know what I'm saying I ain't ready to be judged by the audience I got you not but some chill shit like some chill popular shit okay probably not some shit people would think I'll be playing okay part of the interruption I have to take this quick commercial break to let you know that we are sponsored by me because I signed myself we signed ourselves it's this brand-man network that's why we're calling no labels necessary because no label nobody else is necessary for us to get the train moving so if you could just subscribe to show appreciation we'd really appreciate that back to the program fair enough well one more thing when it comes to this YouTube the niches are important today it's become a lot more like TikTok alright and we probably should have mentioned is like out the gate when we saw these new views but in to come in terms of the discoverability yes we're talking about more like TikTok but I'm talking about algorithmically how you're feeding your audience you want to stay in a niche you can't go as wide as you used to on YouTube these variety channels when you want to talk about anything Oh I want to play tic-tac-toe and I want to like prank my friend and then I want to make music and then I want to do something some commentary and reaction videos on the BGT or so whatever in the same way people say when you're on tic-tac-toe you kind of want to stay in a pocket yeah alright when you start off especially you need to stay in a pocket so yeah you might have your music and another thing but you want to stay pretty linear because what's happening and we even watch this with our data on our end for how our videos perform when you the first people they're feeding to is your own audience right or people in similar space and that are like the people who watch your last videos so if we drop a video on Travis Scott right like we have but then we drop a video on BTS the group people see our following might not even know who BTS is some people right I'm gonna give them that some people I said some people okay we literally watched them not perform a lot of our the people who watch us are more likely to click on a Travis Scott video and even though we have plenty of knowledge and plenty of game that can be extracted from the BTS group people see that they knock on click yeah and that's cool right but that's the that's how even within the same similar niche you would think music advice or music marketing and all that stuff you'll still not have the same level of activity so it's something to be thought about you have to make sure you keep serving your audience because if your audience doesn't click is not going to show to everybody else and it's taking longer for videos to move and go viral we will see it a video perform well within our audience and then slow down click the rate drops and then all of a sudden click the right actually we'll go up a little bit sometimes and then start catching waves is like oh did it get pushing a playlist or did it start getting recommended in a next to a certain video and YouTube was like whoa I love how it's interacting with this video so we're gonna keep showing the next to this video all these things are happening on the back in the algorithm so again staying your niche and then also if you if you stay in it even though it moves slowly sometimes as long as your click through rate is right your numbers are looking good in general it'll probably show it to everybody else but if you your main audience has already watching doesn't find interest in what you're doing the chance of it going further than that it's almost zero at this point yeah I wonder how this going to impact artists who like to do more let's say like discovery oriented content outside of the music content right because I think is like covers or something or not covers just the music but let's say let's say like vlogging or something right ah yeah you know because I look at artists in music where where music with like the artist is the niche right the bigger they get the more like they become the niche you know and they can get the way with it but I'm thinking about those early artists who are building who are like hey like my music is cool I'm gonna go do I'm gonna go prank my manager so I can get a quick 100k views right is like that shit probably ain't gonna hit the same unless this is hilarious you know like speed or somebody or the shit didn't work when you were doing your music so if my music wasn't going crazy yet yeah the algorithm didn't fully say oh yeah put him over here yeah but then my prank stuff going off taking off then becomes a problem because now they're like put him over there and now I drop my music and they put my music over there and they're like yo what is this dog they're saying what I want from you and it's not good you know I'm saying please stop you know I mean like that whole thing you will have the please stops right please stops the comments so it's one of those things where you know how artists will be afraid of having a hit that doesn't sound like the type of artists they want to be and it's like dang that song blew up I wish that song never blew up because I really want to be on my artsy shit that's what that is yeah alright it's like dang that prank video took off and now I'm stuck in that space when before that was overblown because like no people aren't necessarily going to fully judge you in that way and like it's not like I can't take a prank video and good music it's that algorithm is so specific that it's going to put you in that pocket where it's going to hyper specialize who it shows you to and there's no chance of of who it should of if there's no chance of who sees it being based off of the music itself right I always like to use the cats and dogs example right it's like if something pops up in the cat cat car in the cat category now they're going to show my dog content to the cat people yeah versus saying this video is about dogs let's try to show it to dog people it's not going to do that at all and of course you could have overlap but you're not getting the full merit because there are a lot of people who are like now I just want this and I just watched these pranks I don't even like that style of music all right which is the bigger issue is like now you got all these people who know you and love you we had one girl that was trying to work with us she had a boyfriend that had a sad instance happened to him in his life a tragic tragic event she did a fundraiser and that fundraiser on tiktok right brought in people of all shapes and sizes and ages and genders and whatever background right that's great probably went up a couple a hundred thousand followers raised a lot of legitimate money got hella engagement but then she drops from music no this old white man is not going to listen to your young white girl teenage issue music yeah you know what I'm saying yeah all right this old black ladies probably can't relate to it the same right you don't even know what the fuck going on this kid exactly just lost to the sauce out here clicking like just cuz and swiping so the algorithm of sensitivity in these platforms is a pro and con because it's what allows you to go viral so fast but it also is what comes back to bite you if you go viral so fast in the wrong way yeah you know yeah and you you said something too that I didn't I hadn't thought about it I should have peeped a couple of days ago but I hadn't thought about it but the variety channels are going to doff on YouTube and what makes me think of that is there's a YouTuber that really early on in my marketing creation pay to do like reactions for people on like YouTube like the clients and stuff and he emailed me a couple of days ago and was like he's running a deal which honestly should have been the first red flag but you know whatever is running the special yeah something crazy we're like $10 a post or something I'm like let me go look at it because we got somebody we want to work with now and it's just like dead and something looking at it and it's like last year is like a music reaction video the game before the video before is like a vlog the video before like a gaming video the other for that he's reacting to like movie trailers right the video before that he's reacting to like TV show clips and I'm like bro like you know 2018 2019 he was deep in the music space and my guess is that I do remember that was a point where maybe 20 2020 somewhere like reaction channels really blew up you know like well not even just music reaction like just other niche reaction channels I really started taking off I would say around then my guess is he saw that was like oh I don't have to just react to this new call that black video I can react to the new Black Panther trailer coming out and you know ride that in the algorithm and you know now he's probably stuck in the loop was like all this is all I know how to do because it worked for me but like you said now YouTube is like nah you got to go back to being a niche you know what I'm saying at least until you're because it's like I said earlier like what artists the bigger you become like you become the niche you know what I'm saying so and I think YouTube is really all social platforms are interesting way well like they pick up on they're like you have enough social influence the way they don't it kind of matter what the fuck you post you know what I'm saying it's gonna do well right but that comes with the grinding and whatever your previous niche was or whatever your initial niche is right and so I'm just thinking like yeah you're right bro like I'm thinking about like all the variety YouTubers I used to pay attention to other than maybe Mr. Beast you know what I'm saying but going back he has to know the roddy so he can do whatever fuck you want to do you know what I'm saying it's like all the variety YouTubers I used to pay attention to I don't even really see them getting recommended to me anymore it's not pushing me like I have to like actively think about them which I'm not actively thinking about a lot of them you know what I'm saying and go look for them right which I'm also not looking for a lot of them you know what I'm saying and yeah but it's like Lily click this when you said it's like damn brother variety YouTuber brother I'm just going to do whatever because I just would I kind of feel like YouTuber brother like they have a long road ahead of them yeah and the tough part is it's not just I'm going to do whatever because that's what I feel like at a time people were just doing whatever because they thought it would give of my higher chance of going viral right he were doing that a tiktok on at one time whatever train is happening just do it that was the advice yeah all right so you can get views not knowing that they were going down a dead end all right because now you're trapping yourself if you take you take off in this space algorithmically all right and now you can't do whatever you really want to do Oh what did you say sure I did well what kind of channel was it Oh but he he do he stuck his finger and wax and it's just like hard on his finger and that's like a million views on tiktok crazy but random most random video ever attracting like I'm not just wax enthusiasm I don't know what kind of weird shit people he's he's he's he's he's something bro because that shit was like we wish I was all this shit hit 2,000 views that's cool you know they let a damn it's shit 100k like we let a damn it's a million views bro like what the fuck like why all these people come here and I think he's there the follows I think that guy his account to maybe like 10,000 maybe 12,000 or something but he swishes like a a business account and like yeah the engagement isn't the same like because everybody's like not I think I want those I want those finger in the wax videos right I don't know what you like I don't care about nothing else but stick your finger back in that wax yo that's tough man oh man that's tough now now imagine that bro that's like an extremity of someone taking off in the wrong way and they're like no no bro no put your finger in that wax but I got great music so many things to talk about I play instruments I'm sweating no for that figure in that I'm sorry saying that should be rough hey bro you just need to put the finger in the wax bro you're making the too complicated brothers put your finger in the wax hey facts bruh a new saying for real yo that but that's literally a real live and that's mine blowing for a lot of people because that trend chasing error in that way is over you know but like you said you get to the point where you are the next you are big enough you still can expand but now you have to be specific then expand and how do you know if you're on that level yet I guess you drop a video find out right bro right let me take a quick second to say if you're an artist trying to blow general trying to help an artist blow their music up I have something that's a game changer for you and it's completely free as you may know we've helped multiple artists go from zero to hundreds of thousands of streams we've helped multiple artists go from hundreds of thousands to millions of streams chart on billboard go viral all of that stuff and we've now made the way we've branded multiple artists and helped them go viral completely free step to do is check out bramannnetwork.com you apply it's completely free but the thing is we're not going to let everybody in forever so the faster you apply the better your chance of getting accepted bramannnetwork.com check it out back to the video the bill the audience to get there bro cuz like you know like I said but like once you have the audience they care about everything you do so it allows you to branch off like that but it's like nobody's paying attention you know what I'm saying play the niche game until you realize I always tell artists bro like do the niche until somebody asks you about your personal life and other stuff like man I know that you got a I don't know Madden posting about you play Madden now maybe you can start thinking about doing the game and content right cuz like oh there are people in my audience who are interested in me and what I do and then I can deviate a little bit bro all people are asking about your music all they care about the music and they don't care about your personal life yet it's not time outside niche content true true and you can look at some of these channels that have all these interviews with random people and they still got a lot of views while yeah they fit that point where people just care about who they're talking to they don't care who Joe Rogan right there's a level of trust with this core audience that if he's interviewing them then they must be valuable to listen to yeah and he does so many you're probably not gonna listen to all of them but they'll at least be a level of respect and interview for somebody if you are one of his viewers that he's interviewing you know but oh I wonder what this doctor have to say I'll say because it's more about Joe's interest and he's technically a curator at that point mm-hmm right so you essentially want to become a trusted curator that's what somebody with a lot of fans is you have well is levels right you is probably how a new way of looking at the fans actually right you have your fans that are just fanatics their sheep right yeah that's that core core they're blind they're gonna follow you no matter what you do every sense of hypocrisy and contradiction is actually somebody just not understanding right that's the sheet level and then you got oh I really trust the decisions that this person makes right and I like them whether that's decisions they making their music right it happens to connect with me a lot or the decisions they make with their fashion so it represents a lifestyle that I like to opt into a lot or whatever and I and I feel like I'm trusting their choices and however they present themselves I expected to be a way that puts me on to something that that I like right that's a level of fan that that's not just again blind faith but it's still a level of trust yeah right and when you have that with a lot of people because you can only get with so many of the blind aspect of it that's like the bottom of the bottom of the funnel when you have a lot of those people who at least kind of just trust your opinion and approach to things that's when you start seeing people like blow up on a whole another cultural level because no matter what they do like you said people are going to follow like oh what is he doing and by the way it doesn't mean oh whoever he's interviewing I'm going to check him out because now I'm he's giving some credence to that and this but that is the importance of like brand association because then people say oh now you're giving recognition to something that's bad whatever the other aspect of it is I trust this person to be interesting right so their curation of their life is interesting so when you look at a vlog this person might not be somebody who's interviewing somebody making musical musical selections it's just like I trust him to be entertaining and however they they move is going to be entertaining so no matter whatever video they do I feel like I'm going to be entertained by that or fill the emotion that I only might be inspirational I might go to this person for you know happiness I might go for this person for sadness whatever it is so that's what you kind of want to look at yourself as at scale like just a straight up curator you know um and how I only want I want to put people in over thinking right not saying how can you make your decisions matter but understand your decisions matter to the people who are following you and then figure out why those decisions matter like which part of it like is it rooted in the music side of things do they also like your fashion decisions do they also like your lifestyle decisions or do you have audience who like a singing shut up yeah that's real that's a real thing right you know you know play basketball dog you know like I know people hate that but like yeah like that's that's some people just have that you can build something else but you have to be cognizant not they just want to hear me from this yeah and it's like why because you like you start talking all this other stuff and they're like wait why why is he doing this he's he's he's off script this is not what I signed up this is not what I signed up for you know what I mean which on one part I understand the rock in the hard place that NFL was dealing with when the colleague happening situation happened hmm because you know we have this weird thing in the country where you know everybody's in their bubbles and they think it's all them but let's just split into like the left and the right because that's how we typically do things in America right the left and the right the far right the far left all right so there were a lot of people on the left that are like ah let's boycott the NFL they don't F with it they don't mess with the NFL at this moment and when they see the views tanking always because of us right hmm without being aware that there's people on the right who are saying the same thing yeah I don't mess with the NFL we're boycotting and that's the rock in the hard place because both sides looked at the NFL as pantering to the other side I was like that's a crazy position to be like they really didn't know what to do oh maybe we can and try to figure this out but you know you got these people that feel like they're disrespectful cause you're letting people know and you got these other people who feel like this person should be able to play that out it was it was a tough place no matter how you feel about it like that's a really really tough place as a business to be on both of your sides of your fanbase are mad and they both feel like they're your panning to the other side yeah in the sense they both right in one way another way they're both right in one way another like that's PR nightmare you know what I mean yeah that is a PR nightmare so you know being cogn and that's why I try to tell people we go back to the curation those sports they don't care that much about these social causes one way or another the one that panders to the left one that panders to the right they care about the money yeah and keeping the sport cause any time they start to get outside that box they risk people coming at them for one reason or another right and creating that type of situation and we're not built to do with this you know what I mean we're built to curate the sport and that's the primary thing so you know this ain't isn't to get to political or anything like that but like we look at a cow a cow a cow a cow a cow a cow situation and he got booted from the lead people don't remember years before that you had a white man Tim Tim Tim Tebow who was ultra Jesus yeah exactly like he was on some ultra Jesus Christian all of that stuff right in terms of his his speech and his rhetoric and he got pushed out of league because they considered him a distraction for that and the the amount of people the media the level of media that follows him basically right and in in sports you basically have to be like undeniably almost like top of the top to create any media uproar and in the team deal with you yeah right well you know you got to be a LeBron Jordan of your day Tom Brady like Floyd Mayweather you have to be somewhere around that sphere but if you're below that right or wrong it's not about right or wrong it's just like I don't know man it's too much for me we want to do it all this you distraction that's just the way those those sports are are but it's because that very reason right like understanding this is what we curate this is how people come to to us why they come to us and I know that's a dated way because today we want people to actually be well I'm kind of not one of those people that necessarily want people to be make clear everything they believe like generally speaking the public today they want you artists they want to know what you believe they want you to draw a line they want you to draw a line like in the sand somewhere yeah they don't they don't even want to hear nuance they want to know they want to know you got to align here and you don't mess with this person I don't mess with that person so we can kind of like take a stand together which it's tough but I always find like sports being the clearest place to like mark the example on like just the way the PR game is set up today and it's hard to actually just curate what you do and stay in that pocket which it's funny though a lot of people want to get out of that pocket of course like as an artist I want to talk about and expand talk more besides myself it's difficult to get out that pocket but then when you get big enough you forced into you forced into that pocket right so and then you're dealing with the bad side of it so you know just some of the many random things that are that should be considered when it comes to not only the niches for YouTube but how it relates to your PR and I got to talk about rumble because that's also YouTube related as people have been asking for weeks about rumble so I want to do this short because I honestly felt like it's not a lot to talk about but it is worth touching on yeah break it down so rumble is the other YouTube for y'all who do not know speaking of like left right why is rumble something that exists in shorthand is looked at as like the right wing YouTube right a lot of people who are on that side of the fence and therefore free speech rumble is powered by that side of the fence but from the start it could outgrow that but that's just kind of the energy it was started with right I'm about to share the screen those who can't see you know you just listening on but you know you go on there and I mean it's like I said it's scary it looks like a lot of stuff that I don't like to watch a lot in super news hard core TikTok again yet banding TikTok all that type of stuff like and why you're banding TikTok and we're going to war in this country versus the other country there's some brutal emulation emulation a lot of what gender wars everything and we're all a polarizing conversation a lot of that stuff is here right now why is that important to touch on it's not a place where I see for music honestly at the moment like and because people are asking for the context of music should I try to get on rumble as early as a platform so here are the rules one when a platform is early and you're early in your career you can't just assume oh I'm going to grow with the platform I'm going to be early and I'm going to make it to the top of the platform and then as other people come on I'm going to be at the top of the game and everybody's going to show me love and that's how I'm going to grow and blow up it sounds good and a lot of people look at that first mover advantage as a justification to hop on these platforms but there's a few things to consider one doesn't even make sense for you to be on that platform in the context of what people are there to consume when I'm looking at rumble right now just going through the pages a lot of it is based on like news commentary like talking head type stuff which is cool but that's not music so people aren't there in the mindset of I'm going to consume music again right so you can somehow work your way in to commentary with music yeah you have to be like a special type of art yeah you gotta be a special type of artist right you you might be conscious in the way that this platform their consumers think of conscious right talking to all those issues in that way maybe you do that or maybe you just look at it like I'm going to plug my music in between those shows I'm going to hit up all the people on this platform and see if I can get my music to to be a part of their intro or backtrack or whatever something like that so do you belong in this platform what do people consume on this platform or they're not there for you or some version of you and that's pretty tough right another thing to consider will this platform even be around long that's a huge thing to think about yeah I think it is a lot rumble I think so yeah right but I'm just talking to general right because people ask is every time there's a new platform that pops right they did that with Triller right I knew Triller wasn't going to be around I was trying to tell people but and we can kind of go into even some of the house because it relates to this conversation but is the platform going to be around long well it's hard to make that analysis if you don't know what to look for right now people kind of felt that way about tiktok and some people felt that way about Triller they're like oh well tiktok is not going to be around around that long I don't know about this new thing Triller is going to be around look at all these investments that keep happening look at all these brand deals they keep happening and da da da all these artists keep posting on it so the industry like is like oh man Kendrick Lamar is involved in all these other artists and these artists that get paid to post on there they keep seeing these faces thinking that they actually mean something that doesn't mean something I know that there is this this idea of clout and what clout can do but when it comes to technology and even brands but especially technology clout does not have the level of equity that you would think it does in terms of something popping and lasting you might get a little bit of initial attention but change behavior not it's not as real as you would think it would or as we would love it to be right so don't just think you can get a bunch of influencers and then blow a brand up it's not how it works and I don't even mean like random influencers I'm talking about like Kevin Hart for getting you know the rock who was he whoever right it can happen it can 100% happen but there's more to it you have to look at the actual platform not just the influencers because the influencers if right in the right audience and da da da it can make the initial attention happen but translating that into something lasting is different so if you look at Triller technologically they were behind tiktok on just a user experience right me consuming the things that are going to make me stay on the platform and keep me interested on the platform they are behind also the growth of tiktok happen so fast they were so aggressive to get to so many users you have the network effect once you get past a certain threshold of users one has greater utility meaning it's more useful right if there's only one person with a cell phone it ain't that meaningful you know I'm saying yeah you got a thousand people with a cell phone okay you got a hundred thousand people with a cell phone now you're like literally changing behavior in the way the world can interact tiktok took off they got to that way faster than Triller Triller actually never fully got to that and what you need in today's world because you also have to consider it's not just oh I got 20 million users that would have been great back in a day but now you got 20 million users when Facebook already has a billion type thing so you know you're talking about transitioning people from other platforms or telling them to make more time so that becomes less like if a platform can hit that number that threshold and it varies depending on what you're looking at but if a platform can hit the network effect then not only is it more useful meaning people will probably stay on that means legitimate culture can start being established and when culture is being established and you have certain behaviors that pertain specifically to that platform we talked about it the other day you two shorts great it's probably going to do well because people already had are already on YouTube so you just have to you know change your behavior a little bit if you can get it to move it can move but that culture is not going to evolve into what tiktok's culture is going to be so when people want the tiktok culture they're going to go to tiktok you know I'm saying like oh yeah you can open a new club in town alright but I'm going to go to you when I went to EDM by you're not going to kill this like I don't know street underground vibe but it's just a two it's two different energies so I go to you for different things right hang out with different friends for different interests that's all it is like these platforms are literally people's friends that's kind of how you might as well think of it alright and then also when you look at the network effect in terms of people you want to look at SoundCloud as well where I knew SoundCloud wasn't going to just disappear you remember what happened if you were like SoundCloud going to die completely yeah yeah that's been a minute well like 2018 or something like that I can't honestly I can't believe I actually just randomly remembered that like I pulled it out of there I ain't thought about that it was Snapchat it was Snapchat it was Snapchat too it was right so that's perfect the reason those have still stood the test of time is because they got to so many people and when you have that many people on the platform these companies ain't about to just let that many users die alright like that's a lot of data or even my space was still around so it's still useful to from an investor and business side it's hard to just let that go it's very likely that you're going to find some more money you know oh they say money's a problem they'll probably find some more money the founder might not like how much comes with that money right the terms of that money but there's going to be some more money to be found or they just going to sell the data or they just going to sell the data exactly exactly and that's a part of all of them at this point so if it but if it doesn't have these things at the moment then how can you make that make sure that it's going to stay on then you have to start looking at the likelihood that a platform will be around based off of maybe the need in the marketplace like opportunities in the marketplace and I say all these things because like artists are truly making their career decisions over this and you going to dedicate a whole year to a platform and then ain't should ever happen like people did that with what was the other one I think she's about to say Triller Triller no I was going to say the other Triller but then I said then I was like no it was like Triller I think I know she was like a star with like a V or something Dudsmash or something Oh shit I forgot about Dudsmash Dudsmash But that just unlocked a part of my brain that just been dormant that shit was crazy That's what I was saying That's what I was saying it happened and it would be blips of time and people would be so excited about this stuff Like a fun summer A fun summer not a one-night stand but it was a fun summer Fun summer which real quick that aggression did you know that DC on fire blew up on Vine? Yeah, yeah, I was there I watched that shit I didn't realize it was Vine where he blew up I probably I was seeing the videos when he blew up but I didn't realize I was watching on Vine It was like one of the things you just kind of start to see him everywhere Now you don't remember where you discovered I didn't know it was Vine It was a lot of them like him Caleb, I don't know if you know Caleb C Caleb C There was one more big one Oh Kingbatch y'all I knew Kingbatch was Yeah, yeah, him I remember his girl that blew up on Vine too But yeah so those Like all that stuff you want to really think through before you like just put your career out there on the platform You might dip your toe on it But it's better for a newer artist to just learn the platforms that are short And then Take some chances on new platforms Unless you literally have nothing going on on the current platform Yeah, that's your arm So now it's like hey, let me just risk it all for a moment try this for three four months And then what factors are worth taking at risk? Well when you see something like what tiktok was doing The discoverability and people going viral so fast Now it's like oh, this is a new platform But Hey, it's getting people found like for real for real not this oh if I dedicate myself to it for long enough And I'm going to slowly become big and then all of a sudden All of a sudden, you know as the platform gets bigger where I'm going to get bigger It's like no this moment is happening now tiktok is a king maker queen maker or at least like Viral moment maker now I got to take advantage of this now And that's what happened early on with tiktok So you have people dedicating any work was worth that time Especially the amount of time that you had to invest to get that viral moment was Such a contraction versus how much it took on other platforms Yeah, it was worth it to at least see right so if you have any signs of Discoverability on a platform like that then it's worth going to take that risk To take that risk, but not just oh this is a platform that's building up and You know people are doing well.  That's like that's what you're there for platforms are only your way of doing it so Don't get too married to any of the platforms and when you make decisions for platforms Use some of the principles that we just went through Yeah, I thought ours got a kind of a plot of was it the Pareto's principle a 20 a 20, right? I look at like you already kind of touched on it, but there are certain platforms that in Today moving forward, but we know are not more likely not going anywhere, right? Like Facebook YouTube Twitter Instagram I would throw a tick talking in there like these are platforms with like it would take a lot for them to die Oh, okay. You mean going like not dying. Yeah, not down. Yeah. I like not going So these become like the safe best right now may not be able to grow as fast on here Maybe it's new thing, but rest assured if I put the work in like something will come from it Right because the foundation has already been laid. So I because I do think there's that that they look at balance But especially in music between right like how do you make sure you don't miss out on the next thing because we know music Changes every time a damn new app drops All it takes is the right app to completely change the culture and shift it right we saw it with tiktok tiktok It's probably the most recent. I would say to show us that right so I think everything you said is Like it's true and I know I even outside of that one of the biggest things or two of the biggest things I look at before like fully invested in a new platform is one Are there people I know in real life talking about it?   It's the app I just heard about a lot and they use them or like you know my roommates bring it up or something Like it makes it more real for me I can I can see the people that are on it and then based on that decide if I need to be that right my grandma Tell me about a new app You know saying but like my my not your grandma. That's a real person. I'm gonna my target demographic Alright But it can be Similar of how big and real the conversation. That's fair. She's talking about you like dang. How did she hear about that? Yeah, it's still like a it's a pretty strong indicator. There's something to brew. I'll say that so it might not be the decision-maker It's something to break So I think my grandma has to do is watch Yeah Yeah, I thought about this the other day man. I say I gotta stop cursing so much in these videos You know you know grandma, you know what's up?  You know, I don't want a lot of my grandma.   That's a whole that's a conversation man start right and then we go into It's just safe for kids. There was that whole debate, right? And just the content and push on there and there was the China You know some of the not China thing but Trump China Bennett, right? It was like all these different conversations popping up around the That let you know like hey This is this is way more relevant Outside of just the app store and even the people that are using it Yep And if we know anything about people is that eventually curiosity kicks in and if you keep hearing about something whether good or bad Eventually a part of you wants to go check it out Which means that which is basically the funnel, right? And then we know eventually those people are going to convert and it goes back to all things You say like is a user experience cool We feel like it replaces something that we know it's not replace But does it feel a gap that we don't already have right button that these things drive people to the point We'll even get to make that decision and like Trilla didn't have any of that You know saying like that maybe outside of like the only real conversation I remember around Trilla at that time was when someone was saying they were like body and traffic on the platform Right and that became like a whole thing which is a terrible conversation to start off As a new as a newer platform, right?   I know using it and then do those people represent the demographic I'm looking for like you said or do they even represent that this thing is ascended Beyond just the niche that it's even targeting and then bro Like what is being talked is that platform even been talked about not just in terms of our users and usability like What are the actual conversations being started because this app is in the marketplace because people only make conversations around things They think are important or can make an impact There's neither those things and we don't talk about it in saying at least not not general consumers But like, you know, like news outlets and kind of like the public at home So that that's always like led me in the right direction. The only time it failed me There was this app in college called yik-yak. That was pretty crazy. I thought I was gonna blow up It was something that I was like so I had in relation to it either I knew The founders were in one of my programs It was something like something close to the cuff where I was around it a lot an accelerator or something I used to go to or something. I don't know. They had all these companies and that was a dope app concept the thing that pushed them over the edge though, I believe was it was All the bullying and stuff that was occurring and they got hit with that kind of issue too early Yeah, exactly next to negative of a conversation to her later. Yeah, but You know one thing that you said that I want to kind of like codify for people Because you were kind of touching on it when you talked about your grandma or like little sister talking about something It's about not just people in your real life but people that are out of your bubble in Music, yeah, that's very important specifically. Yeah, cuz Triller seemed really big to people who are in music You know a lot of people talking about it, but it wasn't touching the real life the regular people Same way when I was talking about like industry plans I'm like go ask your regular like person like your sister your brother or that's not in music What an industry plan is most people I never heard something like that, right? Like that's how you can really gauge the relevance of a lot of these things because you want to I don't want to say real people because you know being in the music industry you are a real person, but you lose some of your real personhood in terms of Market accuracy in terms of how you judge shit. Yeah, right? Well, you can't gauge another music person's like something's quality off of another music person because they just They're as much in the sauce as you are. Mm-hmm, right?  It's over for Triller All right And that was a big moment to people when they sponsored about boxing match, but just coming from tech I'm like this makes no sense for them to do like this is a reach All right, this is like I'm dying and we trying to find some some some some oxygen when they Purchased versus I said, oh shit True Twitter Triller is still fucked All right, because what it looked like was We don't know who we are anymore Like we're not we are losing this tick-tock battle for just a pure tech and what that looks like So we're trying to figure out another form of monetization to Make this business viable and attractive at least on the back end how investors might be looking at anything like that right, so You know, I said it might be a little bit more difficult To just call that out with businesses, but in contrast I see Tick-tock Create an ad platform Right where you can create run ads for yourself as a regular consumer or Personal user just like you can do on Facebook. Oh, that's investing in the right direction So them make moves where the creator funds you see them do things like They had this platform where you can try to search their Their influencers on the platform, right? Yeah, the the creator marketplace or whatever it's called, right? I think that's still around it was poorly done And I didn't think that was gonna last because I've seen so many people try to do it and just it's a hard hard thing to figure out But at least they're thinking is somewhere in this fear of what they were already selling All right, what is another move that the tick-tock did even them just highlighting trends on the platform Like tick-tock showed that hey, we are platform that pay attention to our creators and we wouldn't give them the spotlight Yes, everything was investing back in that core where Triller was just like cold music industry tool Yeah, it was a music industry tool. They are making music industry moves. Yeah, right? and It doesn't Oh Yeah, it doesn't do what you needed to do Well, do you think Drake is ever gonna get married? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I think so. Why you think that I Feel like that's what he really wants deep down inside and he's not gonna stop his search for a Greatness and and his pursuit in that until No, that that comes on. Maybe that's the whole he's trying to feel with all the Grammys That's the whole he's trying to feel. Oh He's trying to feel the Grammys. I don't want this jewelry, baby. I don't really want these hits Buildings are strange. I don't want to be out here competing with bad bunny. I want to be on with you Mmm-hmm stressful out here competing with that, but tell you the swim just dropped a couple weeks ago I don't want to deal with that. Come on. I want to deal with these problems. We're gonna talk about that bunny, too great segue now Because There's this post on Shade Room. All right Drake has a new piece of ice called previous engagement and it's made up of my ice I mean jewelry for those of y'all who are just listening Hey Previous and he calls it period previous engagements and it's made up of 42 diamonds Representing all of the times he thought about popping the question Hmm, but these are all the times he thought about saying will you marry me? 42 times slot. Maybe 42 women. I don't know. Maybe some of those women got a two-piece They might have been two of those thoughts that occurred, right? 42 times but apparently he never popped the question But I thought about it and now he wants to credit himself by putting it on the piece now Why do you think this is out? Because we already know right? We're in the industry If we see it, it's because there's a point. There's a point. There's a purpose behind it What do you think that is? Just the pose roll out. No, this is this is I'm trying to think when's the last Big Drake moment we had probably in at least two three weeks ago That's too long in the news cycle to go without being talked about one how many weeks like two three weeks But someone like Drake is way too long. It's like nah something out of start going so I was that right? Let's let's reinvigorate the news cycle and I remember talking about it on an older episode where I Said that you'll start to see bigger artists do these things that sometimes Create conversations that have nothing to do with the core thing So I actually right before we started shooting this episode. I was on Twitter and there's a whole debate because of this about Like why men aren't considered horrors and certain things right now. It all stemmed from like this like this thing I'm like, that's really yeah This is crazy, but I tweaked going that tweet was going up at like 20,000 weeks when I saw it And I'm like, hmm I don't know if this is a conversation that Drake was trying to start right that whole that whole conversation But he did and it's gonna be talked about for the next couple of days and probably shoot off into some subset conversations that We all gonna just play back at Drake Right and so I think it's that like I need a conversation This is something that's outlandish like the narrative behind it is crazy, right? It's not like he just went in like oh, I got another 10 million dollar chain. It's like no, this is a chain with with value It is expensive and there's meaning behind it And so it's a two piece with that and it's on brand bro like Drake is the you know Drake is notorious for sticking with the For lack of better turn like the simp narrative, you know saying like that's been his bread and butter for years And if we tie it back to the album, you know her loss What I was telling you before she started shooting is I think this is a message to all those women, right?  So I think I think it's a dope publicity stunt I love it. Yeah, like I hope he I'm pretty sure he's gonna wear it for a while You know be outside with it for at least a year and a half and keep that whole narrative going But I thought it was a very like on brand Drake post while I move I cuz Drake with his post while I'm even his while I move in general Usually hit a couple check boxes. It needs to be lavish, right?  Yep, it needs to be about or revolve around women in one way or another And usually he does some type of like goodwill thing like a donation check here I haven't seen him do that yet. So I don't know if that's common eventually or like I don't know. Maybe he donates the necklace or something at some point. I don't know Yeah, he does usually yeah, but he hit that box. Yeah, so I'm assuming it's coming. He donates the money to 42 women Whatever the worth of each of these jewels are Now I didn't know about this one until you know, right before we hopped on for this episode. So Where was it shown that'll give me more information to like was this Drake posting on this page?  I ain't even a lot I saw on the show room because I have like audio behind it too.  Let's let it play for people to hear that real quick All right, but I'm gonna refresh the page But you're ahead of classic bordering the impossible an expedition spanning 14 months Every diamond hand selected inspected to only soup perfection This monumental art piece was assembled using 351.38 carats of diamonds mounted in 18k white gold Each stone meticulously set utilizing the Eagle claw technique Previous engagements for all the times he thought about it, but never did a True wonder of the jewelry world Presented by Alex Moss, New York and Drake I'm gonna check real quick border on the impossible Yeah, I don't think it was on Drake's page Yeah, I doubt right. This isn't the type of thing that you post on your page Yeah Unless you're like a more jokie brand and like I don't know you put all that kind of content Yeah, you just have it as a conversation and never really validated unless he pops up, right now All of a sudden he's wearing it. What's the name of the design like Alex Moss or something. Yeah, it's sounding like Alex Let's see if he got tagged Yeah, Alex Moss posted it. Yep designer posted it. Yep.  I know it Wrong with no one about it. Otherwise. Yeah, bro. Yeah, Alex Moss. Let's figure out a little bit more about Alex 138 K subscribers New piece tied up previous engagements all the times Do you thought about it, but he never did Yep made for Drake now I Wonder if The designer came up with the idea or Drake did or they were just having like a casual conversation and like came out You know, mm-hmm randomly Came to this conclusion together to do this man that fan. I got the right idea bro moving different should have named this piece Her loss exactly random fan. Yeah No, that's that's definitely Where they should have went with it one million dollars for a dinner with Alex Moss. I'm taking the dinner 42 times we see 42 women are punching the air right now Yep, the thought process behind this is so Drake 350 carries in the comments in the are always so important when these moves are made because That gauges to perception. Yeah. All right. Like the fact that people are saying this is so Drake means That his brand his POV Has stuck right people get it. They know who he are who he is and we know that jokes are only funny When people get the context of it, right? You have to know so The same thing goes with things that aren't jokes sometimes, you know, or the things can be received the right or wrong way Because he's actually stuck in his hit hit the commercial scale He can do stuff like this without having to explain Everybody's not in a place where they can just drop something like this and it have the right impact. That's important to to Say because I see a lot of people try to do Something like this from an artistic perspective that perspective, but there's not enough people that know you and get you whoever you are For you to just be able to do something like that and even connect with your small fan base It's like, yeah, I only know a little bit of songs, but I don't understand you yet Yeah, I mean, yeah, so let me see I wonder which one was Rihanna's and people also understand enough about his past in general I don't think almost getting married 20 42 times is as much of a flex as Drake thinks it is This is Almost this is the most petty toxic and beautiful thing I've ever seen will damn how many women Did he ran through to have thought about 42 engagements? That's an interesting one. It's the point they're making on Twitter. They're calling Drake ran through on Twitter.  Yeah It's like I shoot my shot at 500 women, you know 250 hit me back Maybe 125 we're going to date 70 I think are cool 42 I should propose it that makes sense. I couldn't the conversion numbers line up Yeah, I don't know. I think the conversion might have to be a little bit bigger on top of the funnel, but you know The overall idea is there Do you have a you know, I don't want to derail it too much, but you know Do you have a thought on that question that you just posed about Twitter? Said something about I Know but why Men are looked at differently than women in those scenarios I Ain't What's the word walk of the tightrope every once in a while Man, I was I was cuz he's Drake. He can get away for him He's the status is the bigger thing, right? And I think we we definitely earn a space. We're generally speaking Really famous women get some level of that benefited out they have more flexibility than other women Yeah, like I think Kim Kardashian gets more flexibility on that Lori. All right, Lori Harvey gets more flexibility on that So you just have the whole NBA things off couple right, that's amazing amazing. Yeah, right? Beautiful so so I think there's that goes back to brandy perception like I look at everything from that perspective Traditionally something that conversation has to do with the value of someone All right, that's kind of like right or wrong. That's how it gets looked at and then when you're super famous There's already so much perceived value there It doesn't like I don't think that thing has as much impact because you still have clear value All right, right or wrong, right? But I think that's really goes to a value conversation That's why fame kind of dilute some of it And I think a famous woman still gets more flack than a famous man in that kind of category So to that I'll just say look women should make sure They collectively call males like that hose. Okay. I know I play with the outside, but I make sure I stay straight, bro. Like that's all I'm saying y'all It's up to y'all to make sure y'all collectively Treat them accordingly how you feel like they should be treated right or us, you know Well, you know what I mean, but like because From a male's perspective most dudes Just don't really care about the dudes. I don't care what he doing. I'm not gonna think to label him anything good bad Ugly, you know, I'm saying They're just labeling women right for right or wrong Whatever the label is we can go through all the labels and categories, right? But dudes just not thinking about I don't care because I don't deal with that. That's how a lot of it comes off But if you are a woman that cares about men or whatever and you feel like they're not getting the equal side Make sure we feel that heat. That's all I'm saying. Whatever the repercussions man Start calling enough dudes ran through That should hurt my feeling You feel violated just hearing it. I never thought of it like that.  Hey y'all Y'all treat dudes, you know in in that way, you know, maybe maybe the message will be got You know, I'm not encouraging that so I know some of the men be like, man Man, like you a you a simple why you panning to do something something like I'm not saying that like don't give mad at me guys You know, I'm saying, but you know, that is a solution That is a solution and I and I think it'll work if it doesn't if it doesn't solve the problem It'll get you in the right direction. I can't give you all the keys to the kingdom With that being said artist Man, we've talked about some of these influencers They're just running laps that they're killing the game when it comes to streams getting views and his music and the problem that creates for a lot of artists who don't feel valued and I show speed is one of those artists who is really He's applying pressure And it's something worth talking about because I show speed. I'll let jacquory explain who this is, but this guy has 6.45 100,000 monthly listeners. So 6.4 million. I'll just say that I confused people I started reading wrong.  I think I could confidently say this and feel like he wouldn't fully be offended because he doesn't seem to make a Career as an artist. So I'll say that like Brett. It's this this ain't great music It just isn't yeah, I don't think he'd be a fan about it. I think that's part of the joke and everything But it's killing it. So jacquory. Can you explain? I show speed to the people First off speed isn't a normally he can't be explained He just is But now but speed is like this is really popular um youtube streamer. Um like But he's like a big troll is the best way to put it but he He's uh, well known for streaming with like cast in that who's like another popular streamer, but on twitch, um aiden ross So they all kind of like at least at this point are cool with each other and I know personally I wasn't familiar with him until maybe around five six months ago.  It's gonna be wild at first and you you grow to love him Now he's a very lovable guy. I'm saying very cool You know what I'm saying when he's normal like he's very chill down the earth and when he's in character He's in character. You know what I'm saying, um, and I appreciate that about him He don't break character for nothing and I think that's I like my influences to not break character You know I'm saying at least not what I came on. You know I'm saying do it off screen. So I don't know exactly when he started making music But the world cup song is a song where I First became aware that he even made music um, and I was talking to you about it before but When it was timely like the world cup is is currently going on as we talked about this, right?  You know what I'm saying looking for it I think he's still still like the number three video on youtube and probably because it's about the world cup I think it was about just like his other songs. It wouldn't have went as far. So He has this he has the the streaming audience massive streaming audience. I think his youtube channel like crazy, bro Like maybe three four million. I'm saying subscribers um He has the audience already He makes a time lease of 14 million my bad speed if you see this right me No disrespect about that three four million brothers. I don't want to show your numbers like that but 14 million subscribers um Arguably one of the largest streamers out right now, you know twitch and youtube we talk both of those I think he's at least top 10.   Um, they they got like a lot of pressure around that but yeah, but he's just another influencer that I think Is doing music because they think it's fun And his audience is right there having fun with him and because of that He has six million monthly listeners You know like I mean world cup along we do the math on you know what I'm saying? That's at least that's at least 100k off for just Spotify You know I'm saying I ain't trying to be in the man pockets in that but you know, I know my streaming numbers and what they're equates to That's about 80 to 100k depending on what the country's you know saying or streaming or what the song is streaming that you know so I personally have nothing against it.  I was I was broken into that culture about ddg personally, you know what I'm saying? So I don't mind it.  Like everybody's wanting to do it.  All right cousin. Do your thing man.  Let's start here. This one's gonna really Make something out go down. Yeah, this is the thing So there's a post for eye show speed On Rappers capture shout out to y'all. Yeah shout out rappers capture Man, I have a tongue.  Yeah, it's a couple different niches inside. You got kevin gates and freddy Gibbs Not legacy artists, but very well-established core fan base artists, right doing better than them So fago glorilla ice spice estg sleazy world go Hot artists like currently up and coming hot artists with a viral song coil around with throwing that same bucket too Um, and then lucky isn't that we're like underground, but I got a big coat fan base type of space You know what I'm saying? Like he ain't all the way up here, but he ain't all the way down there You know, so it's like these are artists that represent A bunch of different demographics across the music industry and he is doing better than all of them, bro. That's crazy amazing, even Man, it's crazy to see because Of course When someone has one viral song I'm like, all right, you know, anybody can catch that. It's just the fact that he has You know a song with 25 million song with 36 million because the world cup isn't even his greatest streaming song I didn't know about the shake song. Yeah, but world cup also just came out a month ago shake that came out a couple months ago That's fair. So it's probably going to out stream it based on the pace. Yeah, right But the ronaldo song has 16 million. I mean, it's got there. I don't know how fast his move But it's at 16 million at this point and then both of those You know soccer related So it's soccer like a serious thing. Yeah, you love soccer I don't you didn't you didn't see the video of him crying because uh, I think because spain got knocked out Knocked out a world cup. I heard about that video. He was like crying on his live stream went crazy Crazy speed. I felt speed. You know what I'm saying? So I get the world cup And ronaldo song going because his love of soccer probably emanates to his audience He probably has a lot of audience that also watches it and connects with him in that way So it was something you can play with but shake Why I think because I wasn't watching him at that time I honestly don't know. I think shake might have caught a moment on tiktok. I could be wrong though but shake also is like It's kind of in the same lane as jersey or the jersey club music and Jersey club music is having a moment on tiktok All right, you know, at least as of this year, um, jersey club music has gotten a lot of recognition because of tiktok A part of me feels like he might have just like right time like right timing, you know Like dropped the song at a good time tiktok is starting to fuck with me. I'm going up You know, and it just kind of hit over there But I honestly don't know how that one came out because like I said world cup was when I even became aware that He made music before I just thought he was just goofy motherfucker on the internet Right and then the world cup video came out. I was like, oh, is this like an ad is this sponsored?  Maybe last year See it's like these brands to me Like when I see people like him I think about people who learn from bulk And figure how do I do this better without the risk? right the the risk of danger the To harm to myself the The unfounded I almost said unfounded the The polarization in the wrong way where you're creating people who are following you for the wrong reasons And then people that you are going to want to like you to hate you All right, like a lot of things of how bulk moves was that right even though he created a really big moment really fast I think all those influences learn from them. I feel like they learn a lot of watch people like him and This is where I go back to the idea of Does anybody can benefit from marketing? Without being a marketing genius Right and people will do things and think oh this person's a marketing genius They're a genius how they're doing it, but it just happened There's a plenty of organic moments to just go and make things pop Or you just like doing things you can lean in and maybe troll a little bit But trolling is not marketing genius. All right That's where I like to draw the line like trolling is not marketing things these random moments to happen All of these things can be used As a part of marketing But there's a lot more that connects it all and you start to see that over time in terms of where it gets channel does the career last and Or does it get channeled to the people that you actually want to monetize in a bucket that you want to stay in There's a lot of things that go to it and I feel like in the music industry, especially We lightly throw out terms like oh man Genius the marketing shit that they just did one of just people trolling or being Polarizing which are easy things to gain attention but There's so many more tears to marketing and I feel like you I don't I feel like we're too loose with that term man Like the the clout we give towards people marketing abilities because I've heard that term thrown out on a lot of people That you don't even hear about no more I'll say that yeah, I was uh I was calling little pump marketing genius back in 2018 You know, I've seen the arrow in my ways, you know, I was young Good and getting attention marketing that's even the one thing I think people think getting attention is marketing It's a start. It's a start. It's a heart of marketing. All right, and Getting attention for better or worse is There are some things that you could do a few boxes that you can pretty easily get attention in You know in our industry now who is a marketing genius? And music as an artist I would like to have a comment one day a convo about which artist that we would probably say should do a ranking Yeah ranking. Yeah, I could I feel like if I thought hard enough about it. I could come up with at least three All right We could we could we could do the ranking and the ranking probably would be some shit They already bought in the comments. I'm for that person. Yeah, I like that All right, bet. All right, bet. We're definitely gonna do that one day. I'm gonna go ahead and put that on the list But for now, we're out for this episode I'm Sean. I'm cori and we're out