Thanks everyone for your prep today. We're all set. Good morning and happy new year to everybody, the MGC team and to the public joining us today. Today it's convening of the Massachusetts Gaming Commission and we are doing this remotely or virtually so we will take our role called happy new year and good morning Commissioner O'Brien. Good morning I am here. Good morning Commissioner Hill. Good morning I'm here. Good morning Commissioner Skinner. Good morning. And good morning Commissioner Maynard. Good morning. Okay we'll get started today is January 4th 2024 and it is our public meeting number 494. We'll get started with our minutes. Commissioner Maynard thank you and thank you to the team for their support. Thank you Madam Chair. I will say that Judy is busy in a hearing so if we need to make any changes please please let me know and I'll take them as best I can. I will separate these out because I think we had some member changes out on the April 6th but March 27th to March 30th we were all there. So I move that the commission Madam Chair approve the minutes from the March 27th and March 30th 2023 public meeting meetings that are included in the commissioner's packet subject to any necessary corrections for top graphical errors or other non-material matters. Second. Thank you any edits everybody's had a chance to read them they were extensive. Yep I do have a couple but they're typos I can just circle back to you Commissioner Maynard and give you those. Thank you. Okay any other besides the typographical things. Alright Commissioner O'Brien. Hi. Commissioner Hill. Hi. Commissioner Skinner. Hi. And Commissioner Maynard. Hi. And I vote yes. Welcome 5-0. Alright Madam Chair I move that the commission approve the minutes from the April 6th 2023 public meeting that are included in the commissioner's packet subject to any necessary corrections for top graphical errors or other non-material matters. Commissioner Maynard can you remind me if there was a difference in the attendance? I don't think I noted that. Yes there was. Commissioner Skinner I believe. Yes I was not present. I just want to make sure if it were one of us that we were reminded of that. Okay thank you. I'll second. Thank you Commissioner O'Brien. Any edits? Commissioner O'Brien. Hi. Commissioner Hill. Hi. Commissioner Skinner. Hi. I abstain. And Commissioner Maynard. Hi. And I vote yes. 5-4-1. Abstention. Okay moving on to our administrative update. Good morning our Todd our Interim Executive Director. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning.  We do have four items on the list for the administrative update but two of them I'm going to ask that we postpone. The first relative to cashless wagering was going to be presented by Kara Terese. Those sheets aren't available to join us today so if we can I'd just like to postpone that to our next meeting and then the second relates to the lease of the Boston office space. We're still working out an important part of that so if we could postpone that one to our next meeting that would be helpful as well. I would however like to move forward on items B and D. So item B relates to our Responsible Gaming Conference and Mark Van Duhlinden is here to walk through that and then after I would like to discuss our insurance policy. So with that said if I may I'll turn things over to Mark to talk about our Responsible Gaming Conference. Good morning Mark. Good morning Todd and good morning Madam Chair and commissioners. So yeah I'm here to update you on the status of the MGC's research focused conference. If you recall back in May you approved the FY24 research agenda and included in that research agenda was a few specific efforts on improving our knowledge mobilization. Basically meaning how do we do a better job of research that we've created over the past several years and making sure that it's getting to the right stakeholders so that it can be used in meaningful meaningful ways as it relates to policy and practice. So on May 14th we are planning a conference. The title of this conference is using research to rewrite the playbook examining the social impacts of sports betting and the changing landscape. And I just want to point out sports wagering is an important topic that we're dealing with at this point but really there's also a focus on the changing gambling landscape and what I mean by that is the nature of gambling over the last 10 years and in Massachusetts has really changed. We've created a lot of evidence that highlights what those changes are. How do we take that evidence then and rewrite the the playbook. This is a conference that we've recruited the efforts and support and expertise of the New England Northeast Council on problem gambling. So this includes Maine, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and New York. A special shout out to both Connecticut and Maine for providing direct support, financial support for persons from their states to attend this conference. And in fact Connecticut who typically holds an annual conference has agreed to not do that this year and support the conference in Massachusetts. And I think that this is this is an important piece too. Part of mobilizing our research is recognizing that there's a greater body a greater movement afoot in terms of how gaming is changing the landscape in in the northeast or in New England. And so adding the you know these groups to the mix is really an effort to sort of pair our research with what's happening in the broader at the broader landscape. We also have have pulled in our contractor, Grio, who has we have a contract with Grio to do some knowledge mobilization work. They are helping us and advising us to look at how we can structure this this conference to actively engage new audiences, new stakeholders in the conversation and pull them into into this event. So again, this is going to be on May 14th of this year and it will be at the AC Marriott in Worcester. And at this point we have a capacity of around 200 people. So for an inaugural event we recognize that that's that's a lofty goal but I think it's absolutely a doable goal to to fill those seats and accomplish our goal of mobilizing this research. Thank you. Questions for Mark? Great update. Thank you. Thanks Mark. So Madam Chair and commissioners, by May we'll move on to the item D in the administrative update that pertains to our insurance policy. So I just thought it might be helpful to walk through the status and offer you an overview as to the policy which is commonly referred to as a D and O policy or Directors and Officers Insurance Policy. The commission has secured this and has had one in place since approximately 2016. So there have been different carriers over the years. The present policy expires on January 25th of this year 2024. It's issued by a company called Iron Shore Specialty Insurance Company which is owned by Liberty Mutual I believe. We work with an insurance agent to apply for and secure the policy and I have submitted a renewal application for the for this coming year. At present it's a $5 million policy that essentially has a $250,000 retention or deductible. So I thought it might be helpful just to run through quickly what types of matters are covered and who is covered. Of course happy to try to answer any questions along the way. So there are three basic types or categories that are covered under the policy. It covers claims made directly against an officer, director, or essentially any employee of the commission even though it's referred to as a D and O policy it does cover more than just directors and officers. The second category are claims made against the commission based upon the act of an employee for which the commission is required or permitted to indemnify that employee. And then the third category are claims made against the commission for an act which the commission is directly responsible. So those are the three general categories that are covered under the policy. In each case the claim has to be based on what's referred to as a wrongful act and that term wrongful act is defined in the policy and includes a wide variety of conduct and similarly excludes a certain conduct and I'll offer some examples but it's important just to remember that the Mass Torts Claims Act also provides protections for the agencies and first aid employees. So this policy is in addition to that. So for example under the policy a wrongful act includes things like negligence, breach of duty of an employee acting in the scope of their work for the commission or such an act committed by the agency itself that includes libel, slander, defamation, plagiarism, copyright and trademark infringement in a series of employment or personnel related claims including things like improper disciplinary action, discrimination, sexual or workplace harassment, improper performance reviews, improper treatment of a whistleblower, retaliation, violation of the equal pay act, wrongful termination, wrongful failure to promote, transfer employee and the violation of an employee's civil rights. So that's not the entire list but those are some of the bigger items that are covered under the policy. There are also a series of things that are not covered by the policy things like deliberately fraudulent or criminal acts or bodily injury claims, destruction of property, breach of contracts for which we have an actual contract in place and things like workers comp, unemployment and disability liability which are covered under different bodies of law are also not covered under this particular policy. The coverage generally includes the cost of providing a defense though that amount counts towards that five million dollar limit of liability. So that's those are some of the nuts and bolts of what this policy typically covers and doesn't cover. Again we have applied to renew it for the coming year and I will certainly keep you apprised as to where that stands. I'm happy to try to answer any specific questions about it and of course happy to share the actual policy itself with everybody but that is those are the details I thought might be helpful at this church. Questions for Todd? Madam Chair. Yes, Alicia. Thank you Todd. Could you just review the first and second categories of coverage once again? I think I missed something there. Sure. So the first are its claims made directly against essentially an individual, an officer, director, really any employee and that covers seasonal employees and all kinds of pretty much everyone who works here and you know sort of a person themselves is named as a wrongdoer then the policy covers that. Todd, do you mean person in their professional official capacity or in their personal capacity? It's both as long as it's you know in the scope of your work and that's why they cut out other types of things like criminal acts and things like that. I just thought I would catch that right there Commissioner Skinner my apologies go right ahead Todd. Yeah so if you do something at work it's covered and the second one is kind of an offshoot of that in some ways. It's a claim that's made against the agency itself but it's based that's based upon an act of an employee that the agency would be duty bound or permitted to indemnify that person for. So that's where the insurance policy steps in. So it's either a claim made against the person themselves or against the agency based upon an act of an individual. Those are the first two categories and then the third one is just a claim made against the commission itself or something the commission did. And again and this is important it has to be for something that's not already covered under the mass torts claim act for which someone cannot advance a claim. And you remember we actually experienced that in the FBT case. That was exactly what happened. They the first cause of action was intentional interference with contractual relations which is a tort and once the court established that we are a governmental body that was an improper cause of action against the commission and that was dismissed. So the the only thing I'll ask is that you'll ensure there's no gap. Yeah I think and we work again with with the the broker and and I've looked at it and we've actually at one point I did have a counsel at A&K look at it too and we it feels comprehensive. Of course with any insurance policy you know there are arguments to be made as to whether coverage applies or doesn't apply and and that's there's a whole body of law that covers insurance claims and a whole universal lawyers who practice in that space. So the policy yeah my question about gap was not necessarily the coverage but no gap in terms of the timing. Oh yes no we are well aware of that or on the case we've uh we've done the same uh we've engaged in the same protocol for a number of years now and it's it's worked out really well for us so I'll certainly keep you appraised absolutely. Thanks so much. So with that Madam Chair commissioners that those are the two matters we had for you as part of the administrative update happy to address any other issues but that would conclude this item on the agenda. Thanks I'll set commissioners with respect to the administrative update we'll look forward to the other two at the right time. Commissioner Hill item number four um I am I did speak with Todd about this. I am uncomfortable moving ahead on this today because I did not include the specifics of the under legislative update and it is for us to issue that apparently that letter. We received one comment I don't I know that we want to get this out but I also think it I feel from an open meeting law perspective I got council's advice that would probably offset I'd like to be conservative on this and wait unless there's a big objection to January 18th and they will also allow outside of the holiday period for further public comment. We did I think we want to express our appreciation for the organization that did respond with respect to our community mitigation grant but I wonder if you will honor that or does it really impact the timeline you had in mind. One it does not impact the time I do I did want to bring up revisits an area of the letter that some of my fellow commissioners disagreed with and I wanted to have a further discussion about it and I would look to you to tell me if that would be today or would that be on the 18th. So the way we left it was we received it I think we're going to use the 18th for the discussion about troublesome areas correct okay that would be when we raised if the commissioners have any points of either disagreement or needing necessary clarification they would bring that those forward and I would have it properly marked up so they had so they had already brought up those issues or the issue that I would like to talk about but I certainly don't have a problem with you mentioning what brought up at the last meeting. What was that? Well there was the issue about the three years you know looking at somebody who had been employed by right in this case a casino you know employee who may have applied to us and I had argued or tried to argue that maybe we should lower the you know from three years to a certain number not get rid of it all together I'm certainly not for that and there was a couple of my fellow commissioners who had issues with removing the three years and since that time I have heard from a couple of our staff members who had brought this up to our attention that's why it was brought before the full commission because there were concerns that had been raised and I didn't have specific cases to talk about in the last discussion I do now. Can we reserve that for the the 18th and just of course well and it's good that then you can have those cases ready also as a suggestion again to the public if they have any input on this specific issue and then also as to the letter itself which is in our public packet today they can go through again we received one very substantive comment and we appreciate that and given that there are many categories I forget how many taught many proposals it's over 10 right I think we welcome any further input from the public and Commissioner Hill I think it's okay too if the the team wants to speak about it their experience if they're comfortable but otherwise you can relay it all on the 18th that will be great okay thank you very much I appreciate everybody's patience on that. Okay we'll turn then to the sports wagering division good morning again Director Van Bruce oh good morning I'm turning to sports wagering division and I will let you do the introduction for your team. Yes I believe that we have house rules and that would make Andrew up first Andrew. Thanks Bruce good morning good morning Madam Chair, Commissioners two items for your review today first on the agenda beginning on page 40 of your commissioners packet is a house rules update from fanatics betting and gaming fanatics has requested several updates to their house rules for clarification purposes additional rules to address new market types restructuring and reordering of certain sections and addition of rules to address one of the newly approved sports okay I can run through a few of the examples the changes here highlighted in the red line portion of your packet within the football section they've added new language to address new market types such as most passing rushing or receiving yards in a game by an individual player they've also restructured and added clarity to the daily weekly cross match player props and team specials to make it specific to NFL wagering within the basketball section they would like to offer specific player markets for stat milestones in a single game for example a wager here could be if a specific player would record five steals in a game or if a player will record a certain number of blocks in a single game they've also added clarity on markets for season long milestones as well lastly within the basketball section they would like to restructure the rules for their feeba and lightning bet markets this restructuring just provides better clarity for the customer in their baseball section they've added clarification for resettlement on specific markets such as total runs total team runs one of the first round we scored total basis hits rbi's and home runs within their golf section they've included the term double eagle to mean the same as an albatross those two terms would be used interchangeably within fanatics house rules within the MMA section the language is previously approved however it's just a restructuring of the rules swapping the two bullet points again just to provide better clarity for cycling they've added clarification language for resettlement as well as language for additional markets such as cyclists to win a stage or cyclists to finish in the top three lastly they've adopted language to now include pickleball for wagering within their house rules as you remember the commission approved pickleball for wagering on august 24th of last year fanatics would now begin offer wagering for that sport these pickleball rules align with other operators that offer the sport as well all of this language is very straightforward and lines up with other operator requests that we've reviewed and presented in the past and after reviewing nothing here stands out as unordinary all of these changes were similar similarly submitted to the other jurisdictions in which fanatics operates and furthermore excluding massachusetts six of the eight jurisdictions in which fanatics operates have already approved these updates with no issues while fanatics anticipates the remaining two pending jurisdictions to be approved soon and to note fanatic senior regulatory council michael avine is on the meeting to help answer any questions so after a comprehensive review the sports wagering division confirms all requirements have been met pursuant to 205 cmr 24702 section 4 and has no reservations with approving these changes madam chair thank you and you're happy new year Andrew happy new year mr. Levine happy new year questions for questions for either mr. Levine or Andrew commissioners very helpful to have the information about the other jurisdictions certainly know there was a question brought up in previous meetings so that's something that our division is looking into more recently making sure that these are approved in other jurisdictions and which are jurisdictions they are and which ones are still pending so questions andrew i i think you may have skipped over motors for um perhaps yeah nothing concerning there right nothing concerning no this is just a little bit of clarity to the single lap wager that they're offering single lap yep it's bad luck that they don't finish that slap Andrew okay um commissioners if you have no questions for our folks from fanatics or for Andrew do i have a motion and nice work Andrew i i can move i will point out that i've never had an albatross but uh madam chair i moved that the commission approved the updates to fanatics house rules as included in the commissioners packet and discussed here today second thank you commissioner hill all right any questions edits commissioner brine i uh commissioner hill hi commissioner skinner hi commissioner mayer hi and i vote yes thank you moving on Andrew yep the next item for your review thanks michael for coming on this morning thank you next item for your view begins on page 57 of your packet this is a house rules update from draft kings and the major change for your review that i would like to draw your attention is the additional language within the market rules section i believe that starts on page 59 about halfway through the major change in addition to the Edison clarification language for parlays round robin same game parlays and teasers draft kings is introducing language for progressive parlays essentially progressive parley is similar to a normal parley where a customer chooses three or more selections however a progressive parley provides a margin of error wherein a progressive parley can still pay out in the event of a losing selection within that progressive parley the number of selections within a progressive parley that can be settled as lost and the progressive parley still pay out is dependent on the total number of selections in that progressive parley similarly the potential returns for a progressive parley are dependent on the number of selections in that progressive parley the greater the number of selections included in a progressive parley the greater the potential returns and the greater number of losing selections allowed an example of this might be you select four winners during the one o'clock sunday nfl games as part of a four leg progressive parlay and after those four games concluded three of the four games you selected one while one of one leg of your parlay lost you would still win your progressive parlay however with a lesser payout draft kings has submitted this change to independent testing lab gli as they would need recertification gli has since issued that recertification for draft kings with regards to gli 33 this gli recertification letter is jurisdiction specific for massachusetts and additionally our division has reached out to gli and they have no issues with progressive parlays and that draft kings progressive parlays are live in other jurisdictions with no issues draft kings has similarly stated they are experiencing no issues with these wagers as well for the sport specific updates within these changes each of the sports listed in your memo addresses additional language on settlement rules pre-live same-game parlays and player crop wagers for example within their soccer and rugby sections they have now added language that all settlements are based on the stats and results provided by the official website of the league's governing body or staff provider and for their tennis and hockey sections they have added language for their pre-live and live same-game parlays work for selection to settle as void or push the same game parlay will be priced a reprised based on the odds available on the draft king's site at the time of the placement speaking of the jurisdictions draft kings has confirmed that 18 of their operating jurisdictions have already approved these health's rule updates with the progressive parlay language included and they stated they do not anticipate any issues with the remaining jurisdictions our division has confirmed those 18 jurisdictions have adopted the updates and we have a list of those jurisdictions if needed to note draft king senior director regulatory council or regulatory operations jacob list is on the meeting to help answer any questions as well and after a very thorough review of these updates discussions with draft kings and communication with gli the sports wagering division confirms all requirements have been met pursuant to 24702 section 4 and is no reservations in approving these changes madam chair thank you andrew and happy new year jay thank you for coming on today questions commissioners madam chair yes um i understand progressive parlay pretty good but i would like a couple more examples of how it would work just so the public understands it and anybody in the staff who may be new to this jake that was the only example i could i brought up this morning i don't know if you have any others that you've experienced um in your other jurisdictions that you'd be able to help out with progressive parlays the application of progressive parlay uh really could be applied to really the same type of outcomes that we would use for regular parlays just at least for now they generally confine to 5050 types of outcomes so you might create a progressive parlay which would involve the spread of all of the nfl games and nfl sunday or just a selection of them so three of the games or five of the games and it would really function almost identically to a regular parlay except that if you don't get every selection correct you still receive some payout if you only have one loss among the entire group of selections or if you only have two losses among the entire group of selections so in that in essence it's almost the same but just with a little bit uh smaller payout for getting everything right but more payout for getting something right thank you ma'am jaren thank you jake and andrew is it clear how much of a return you'll get like how's that clear of life yes so the exact amount of return for um how many selections you get right is stipulated uh in the customer user experience when they select the best so as you choose each of the outcomes there is a button in your best slip where you can see the pay table which shows you your exact payout for each number of the outcomes after the bet has been made in your my desk so your your bet history you can also see the the payouts for the different number of selections that are correct but based on um user experience that suggests almost like each progressive parlay could have a different percentage um only for the different numbers of selections so so any as i said at the top where for now we're combining it to sort of coin toss outcomes so the minus 110 uh type of outcomes and so the payout differs depending on the number of selections but would be the same across uh different lengths thank you and madam chair madam chair to to further answer your question that is in the house rule so that is explained to the customers in the house rules that the full breakdown of the pay table is in their best slip so the customers will be able to see that in their best look and that's less laid out in their house rules as well thank thank you for for that clarification sometimes i just want to open up a and set up an account so i can see it for myself but that's not really a lot so here we are thank you so much um and i i do see it i would like to suggest me on the best slip there all right um other questions this is for the sports wagering division are other operators doing this similar no other no other operator has submitted this um for their house rule updates only drab kings is currently offering this in their other 18 jurisdictions what was it in the initial pardon was it initial house rules no no so this this is an addition an update to their house rules to include this language for this wager i mean of the other operators andrew's what i'm getting at is did we initially look at this through anybody else is what i'm getting at i'm trying to see is there anyone else doing this in the jurisdiction no one else is doing this in our jurisdiction um and in fact like as i said drab kings had to submit this uh for gli recertification for gli 33 and and and so just to clarify none of our current sports wagering online licensees offered this anyway correct about the country okay well they're watching today yeah um and gli had no concerns correct no concerns they reissued their recertification recertification letter early december got it and in terms of the other edits that are not specifically related to the progressive yep so the teasers yep so the the parlay round robin same game parlays and teasers there's more restructuring to kind of include this language for the progressive parlays and then for the sport specific just their pre-live in same game parlay changes that i addressed for tennis and hockey and then soccer and rugby which is including language to state that they're using the official governing body for results any questions commissioners on the on either the progressive parlay or the other amendments here jake thank you for your time today um if there are no further questions it sounds as though our um specialty division is satisfied with this do i have a motion still reviewing anyone ready to move commissioner maynard have you turned off your volume yeah i i actually took the minute um to re-review and actually pull up some some materials um i moved that the commission approved the updates to draft king's house rules as included in commissioner's packet and discuss here today second thank you any further questions okay commissioner brian hi commissioner hill hi commissioner skinner hi commissioner maynard hi i thought yes five zero thank you jake and happy new year andrew thank you um thanks jake madam madam chair um i'm in text conversations with crystal bo shaman right now she's going through a restart on her computer she's asking if we can move the wind bed item she's more prepared on than me than i on that item yeah that's fine and and i appreciate the um heads up restarting is happening all over so what we'll do is we'll move right into at least um item six a and then we'll return to five c um and thank you to i e b for being right ready hi katelyn good morning karen happy new year to you both happy new year okay thank you karen katelyn um is our is our interim i e b director so uh congratulations again on your new role and uh i know that for six a we're really looking at a kind of a high level update on the process that you're going to roll out i think in more detail january team yes this is so kara is going to walk through the temporary licensure process because that is right on our doorstep with regard to the cat three um source wagering operators and then also uh the ps ppc um the cat one license um so kara will walk through that and just to be clear the the presentation on the 18th will be more about the durable suitability process so it's sort of in two stages we'll talk about temp now and durable on the 18th um but with that i will turn it over to karen thank you katelyn uh good morning madam chair and commissioners uh so as we kind of briefly discussed when we were approving the renewal form uh temporary licenses expire after one year and operators must timely request a renewal of their temporary license and in order to be considered a timely renewal operators must apply for renewal no sooner than 10 months but no later than 11 months after the expiration date of their initial license and just as a reminder because we have a lot of important dates in the licensure process the date of licensure is a separate date from suitability so uh first the uh operator had to be found suitable then they were eligible to request the temporary license and then there was the certificate of operations process that actually allowed them to uh go live uh so once the request is for renewal and $10,000 application fee has been received the temporary license is deemed not to expire until the commission makes a decision on the renewal at a public meeting so and they do need to be given 14 days notice of that meeting and then should the commission approve the renewal the one million dollar license fee would be due within 30 days so that's kind of the overview of the process and in terms of where we are the form was provided to all of the temporary licensees before the holidays and they've been notified of their due dates we'll be looking to schedule the renewal renewal requests but we're happy to do that and discuss that in an agenda setting and in terms of dates the Eric could you just repeat that line about agenda setting please I want to make sure yeah so we'll you know so essentially once the requests are received we are the licenses do not expire so we have some time um we will obviously want to schedule that and so we'll want to do that after we have received the requests so we can do that on an agenda setting right thank you of course and then so in terms of the category three licensees will expire February 23rd and PPC is actually due to expire January 12th we've already received the application from PPC and I believe Caitlin will be discussing that posture yes so as Karen noted the category threes all expire on February 23rd which means that they will have their renewals due about 30 days before that a month before that so those will be coming in this month in January PPC is in a little bit of a different situation because they expire on January 12th as Karen noted they've already put in their request to extend their temp but as you'll remember at the same time that they put in their request to extend the temporary license they also put in a request for a finding of durable suitability and so what will basically happen is a an adjudicatory hearing regarding PPC's durable suitability has now been scheduled for February 5th and so the commission will take that question up on the 5th um at that point if the commission determines that PPC is fully suitable they will get their full license and then the temp application will become moved if that doesn't happen then the temp application could move forward and that could all move forward together the one other thing that I'll note about this is that what we're going to suggest is setting a standalone meeting or a section of a standalone meeting to address all of the temp requests at the same time because they're all going to be very similar and it might make sense to just go through them all at the same time as opposed to sort of splitting them up across meetings and you know obviously happy to take the commission's input on that but that would be our suggestion I'm happy to take any questions Mr. O'Brien I'm all set um other questions I think that I also asked um at our agenda setting that we get clarity around the field of um of category three nice to say is in a status of of of our operators we have a couple who are not currently operating and I'm wondering if we have an update uh happy to give an update on that so I'll walk through the list um PPC as we know operating um Caesars is operating badly interactive has a temporary license but is not operating they have informed the commission that they are working on opening operations in Rhode Island and once they are done uh getting set up in Rhode Island they will then move forward with Massachusetts so we don't have a hard date on that um but they have told indicated to us that they will move forward with beginning operations um after Rhode Island launches and justification in order to do that presumably I don't know what their timeline is um I think originally they were going to be operating sooner than now in Massachusetts if they're delayed um they would in order to be able to operate next year they do have to submit their temp uh request for temporary licenses correct they do need to do that they need to submit their request for an extension um and pay the fee to continue having a license right and we don't have any sense because I don't really know much about Rhode Island's plan so um if I'd love to know about Massachusetts plan uh I think we can um I don't know if Bruce has any additional information from them but we can also inquire and see if there's any more information on their plan so bring that back to the commission director ban any inside as to yeah they're in the process of uh uh getting ready to open up Rhode Island and uh their new co said that at that time when they have a better feel as to where they are they would let us know uh you know when they would be planning on opening up in Massachusetts but they do plan to pay our license fee coming up uh I know Cara was in touch with them on that so I would assume with they're willing to pay the million dollar fee and everything that they're still planning to open up with us I think that's fair thank you we just don't really know their timing but that's okay thank you shoulders I don't know if you have any further questions on valleys Commissioner Skinner I had my mic off I had a question about um Caitlyn's earlier update but I can wait until she finishes answering your question Madam Chair my apologies for missing if you had asked um or if you're taking your mic off okay thank you for that and then to run through the rest of them um bed MGM is operational better is operational draft Kings is operational DCG um has a temporary license but never began operations and has informed the commission that it does not intend to begin operations in Massachusetts and so what will happen there is at the end of their year attempt their license will expire and it will not renew and so that will be the situation with that they don't have to go through the procedure set out in the the shutdown right basically the cessation right because they never began operation um Madam Chair does Commissioner Skinner question for Caitlyn when does the license expire February 20th okay you did say that oh that's for um category all category threes uh yes I actually I asked that they may be February 28th but it's the same same week basically okay um moving on thank you um and that is and again Caitlyn just don't want to be fully transparent really be received um notice from uh DGC when you know I don't have the date of the letter but I can uh look okay um thank you that's is operational Fandals operational PSI is operational and WinVet is operational so that is the current status of all of the chat three and chat one temp licensees okay I'm sorry no I I'm ready thank you just Caitlyn just um in the case of PPC um temp license expires January 12th did you say but we're hearing the durable suitability uh request on February 5th so what's their status in between those two dates and does the commission need to take any action to address the gap there it's a good question um be pursuant to the regulation as soon as an operator puts in a timely request for renewal of their temp their their license stays active so we don't have to ask on the temp request before January 12th that can happen afterwards um their license will stay active through that February 5th date and then even beyond um if necessary to go through the temp process okay great thank you and I just I think it bears noting for everybody's edification too that's the same process for the land base because we renewed PPCs and that was the same approach that once the application was submitted you know our time to process their license carried through was being active during that time period so it's the same way we treated the land base it's on us okay um which is a good reminder kind of sure Brian and and um in term Executive Director Grossman it's a 15-year re-licensure for the um true resort uh destination resort casinos PPC just had a shorter a five-year so we've gone through that process once um approaching now a little bit closer to that 15-year mark so but still quite a few years away all right um um any other questions I don't think we're taking any action um Kara uh I'm assuming you'll stay involved in case um on the 18th we have further questions about the process as it starts to really be activated so thank you at this point in time you're feeling really supported by your team and everything Kara absolutely they're great yeah excellent it's a good group um any other questions then for Kaitlin and Kara Chief of Brian and in term IEB Director Monk all right thank you very much an important update appreciate it um then I know um Crystal it's still um undergoing updating unless maybe she's on now I am I'm here sorry about that that was very inconvenient um if you guys are ready I can hop back but no you're lucky um Crystal I think I experienced it it was a 45 minute delay one so yeah I was having flashbacks to what happened to you I'm like how long could this be um but either way I'm reloaded and ready to go happy I'm just uh Crystal I said Kaitlin Crystal happy new year oh thank you happy new year we're back on 5c yes and it is page 64 in your packet just for reference um hopefully a pretty straightforward request here from WinBet but we uh the sports wagering division specifically commissioner banned I think received this but I I upgraded you Bruce yeah thanks Crystal I apologize I have medicine heads so but yes we received this request from WinBet um essentially what they're looking to do is streamline the window of their customer service operations for the phone lines um I do have the specific request in your packet um they're looking for uh the contact hours to be between 9 and 7 p.m and they did specifically look at when their call volume was coming in and there's currently excuse me there's currently uh less than about 10 live chats I believe um that happened between that evening hour from 7 to uh 9 a.m and they're really receiving about there there are some data shows about 100 contacts daily so um you know not a high value of calls anyway but uh we bring this request to you just because this was such an important conversation during the application process and you know we had made note of that and I wanted to make sure you were aware that such a request is in place just so you know I've also acquired data from all of our operators as to what their um all of their contact information and availability is right now so I can share that with the commission and we do still work with the communications team to make sure that every access point is uploaded to our website so I'm sorry that you're not feeling well okay it's getting better um but that's essentially the request so you know we don't see any issue with this but we wanted to bring it to your touch um we actually don't need um we we we we don't necessarily have to vote on this is what I'm understanding we we serve that right and Crystal and her memorandum um you know makes it clear that this is a result of the time that we spent on on customer service um access and types of access during our application process um I think it's important to note that um at least in a meeting that Mr. Hill and I shared we learned that um there could be customers who are looking for help about their application their app and how it works and instead of going to the operator's customer service materials and information they go to the helpline that is actually intended for those who have um problem gambling or or responsible gaming questions and uh I think and I don't know if Tom Mills is available but our website does include important information around customer service and Crystal you're planning on working with Tom to really even make that more robust and information uh yeah so like I said I we've compiled a spreadsheet now so we could even upload that but for the most part there's um all of the contact points I think I did see Mills pop on but on the website for each operator yeah um Mr. Hill I don't know if you want to add in but I didn't want to add in but I wanted to make a comment but I'm waiting for everybody to offer their words of wisdom before I do guys do you have words of wisdom staff I'm talking about I'm wondering if you wanted to hear from me if you're not expecting any words of wisdom for the rest of us well I'm hanging on everybody's words so first off um I don't think I've ever seen a group so sick in my life as I have today I feel like I'm at Mass General Hospital and we're right outside the emergency room every one of us we are hurting for certain with that said so you're up Commissioner Hill I would be a hypocrite if I was to sit here and say I'm okay with what has been proposed because I was one of the ones who really made a to-do about customer service and making sure everybody you know gets the service they need when they need it but I also understand you know you're only getting certain calls at certain hours I think what I had hoped maybe we could reach back and ask if that maybe that their hours would be 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. instead of 7 p.m. and what I'm thinking the reason for that would be if there's games going on most of them get over by 11 o'clock p.m. eastern time and most issues would stop at 11 p.m. once the bedding you know for the most part of the games of the days games have taken place so I think a four-hour window is something I would like you to reach back and see if they'd be okay with everything else although I don't want to see any changes again I'd be a hypocrite if I said so at least coming up with a compromise I could go to 11 o'clock because that's when most games are done in regards to the bedding world on the eastern coast. Can I do a follow-up please? Crystal I understand you've been putting together a master list I want to commend Wynn-Beth for reaching out to Crystal I'm not sure if that's case trial operators in terms of their hours Commissioner Hill so I want to make sure if we're expecting something of Wynn-Beth that we are well informed as to the other operators and their general access because I don't think we actually I think in your memo mentions this crystal we didn't ever impose parameters although we did assess and they hurt us that we wanted great access so Commissioner Hill do you mind just sort of hearing about what the whole field is doing does it look does it look like they go to 11 o'clock Commissioner Skinner? Madam Chair I'm sorry I just I wanted to see if I could get a couple of basic questions answered first before we went down that road relative to Wynn-Beth my first question is what are they proposing to reduce their hours from I'm assuming it's 24 from 24-hour customer support okay I see Director Band nodding Commissioner Maynard nodding so could we get a little bit of an understanding more of an understanding of what the nature of those calls are that are coming in after seven and before eight or nine a.m. I don't think I missed it but I think the customer support I want to make sure that I understand exactly what that is so because I wouldn't imagine that folks are calling between those hours I mean maybe so but I think it would be less likely in my opinion that folks are calling between those hours to change their email address or you know if they're having trouble navigating you know updating their bank account information right so what I'm getting at is are these callers at that time of day callers looking for problem gambling support do we know that and if so we don't know we don't know the con I mean I'm sure every day it's very different too but we don't know that and we do know just as a quick address to one of the questions asked about 11 a.m. I mean 11 p.m. is that on site retail is still available till 11 p.m. just not the call service and of course when that is retail so I just wanted to make that clarification we don't have a sense I think we could we could try to get a sense but you know those calls don't come into us so the after hours calls could be anything it could be people we do know what you could be that what they have said in context is that when they hear from people at night it's like they're they work different hours or you know so but that's you know just an anecdote so I know that we're not expecting a vote on this I'm not I'm not sure what action we're going to take on this today but I would like that information before I weigh in on on this request I'd also like more information on the process by which customers patrons are their communication gets converted into an email that I can that I can answer and I I guess I think I can answer so even though they do not have the 24 hour call live call live chat what we see and this is with other operators too is that the phone line is a direct voicemail line so they are able to leave their message and then they are in queue to get that call back once the hours start so they're immediately the first calls and this is what we see where people do have a 24 7 line it's it's a lot of it is a either 24 7 live chat where it's 24 7 call back and then they leave a message or with their number and they're in queue to get a call back so when that is not looking to get rid of that these people would be in queue for as soon as customer services back live at 8 a.m. I mean on the surface I think the request seems reasonable but I would like to to understand what those calls are about at that hour because if they are crisis calls you know I I I'd want to talk think about this a little bit differently so can I follow up on my earlier question on commissioner skinner do you have a sense from this is not this is not punitive but respect to the other operators I just think we should understand what the field is looking like in terms of customer service being available do you have that generally crystal I know we all prefer and I am willing to share this spreadsheet with you too because you know it was the first time we kind of compiled all of this now that we've been operating for almost a year um but I it would be a little um it'd be unique for us to have parameters set for this on one operator versus others I I'm not opposed to that but that would be if we are going that route I think we'd need to address that across the across the board I think fanatics for sure has a till 10 p.m. um I need to believe looking I'm sorry I'm looking now Caesars has till 1 a.m. but those that's pretty rare I think the others are if there's a direct call line like I said it's a voicemail line or it's a live chat there aren't a lot of direct customer service access lines at this point so parallel to that madam chair um um to follow up on your question um or to add to your question could we um try to understand at some point what the operators represented in their applications in their application as what as their customer support hours um I think you know that as well yeah thank you yeah I have that for you guys so I can share all of that information um a lot of them require you know stated they'd have 24 7 access but not necessarily by phone line and a lot of them do maintain 24 7 access but not necessarily by phone line so that's what I wanted to compare to so I do have that I think I didn't have it in full before the meeting to be able to include in the packet but I can surely distribute it yeah thank you for mentioning the 24 hours because I remember overwhelmingly that is what all of the most of the operators were um offering is the 24 hour customer support but the distinction that you just need is a is a good one and so it'd be helpful to just get our memories refreshed first of all I feel really bad for making crystal say anything right now I'll start there but I agree with Mr. Skinner I was sitting there thinking to myself did any of these operators bait and switch us from the application period and then I wanted to actually to the chair's point um we may have not said it hard and fast but if it was a part of us green lighting and application they should do it and they should let us know when they're making changes so I do commend WinBet for doing that um my biggest piece here and I'm hearing everything for my fellow commissioners but I want to make sure that if somebody's account gets hacked somebody gets somebody's bank information that they can go somewhere and get it fixed that's my biggest worry here um and so my question is really and I can't really see it in the materials do they have something and I think Mr. Skinner called it for crisis do they have something that is that stop gap for crisis um that's kind of my biggest question but I am interested to see if anybody bait and switch dust and interested in having conversation on if we do mandate it or put it in regulation if we're afraid that anybody's trying to get cute from what they did during the application period so um because it sounds as though we should probably compile a more detailed memorandum um and Todd it sounds as though we do want to mandate this we should probably be specific on a regulation correct yes that's right we didn't formalize this whole piece of the plan so yes we can look at that as well I think there was a lot of discussion too about not just voicemail but also the the robot chat um I'm not hearing that um as the maybe a feature that's given but if they have that feature as well Chris I'd like to understand that we embed itself or all of them I think all of them yeah all of it's included yeah I think um that's the thing that I noted and you know we can cover this even more in detail but in the applications as I was reviewing them for this uh it really was that was the key component where they were saying 24 7 it would be live chat or like you said the the robot chat that the chat access um not a lot indicated a phone number would be accessible 24 7 so but we can we can put all of that together in a further memo and um provide that the next meeting okay commissioners um I'm assuming that you join me in in uh applauding efforts on the part of the communications division the sports waiting division to make our website as robust about how information can be gained um about the app itself and I think we make it very clear if it's with respect to anything to do with their um their health and wealth welfare and wellness we have a very clear line um that would be maybe external to the operators and that's to help mine so uh and to the extent that they offer something unique uh for crisis management I'm hearing the commissioners asking for that too so anything else commissioners on this um Crystal feel better they are actually which is why I keep laughing I'm feeling better enough to be here today so restart but to give you a little bit more time to restart so great absolutely we'll get all that together anything else for uh director van and um team yeah thank you very much christine sister thank you you're welcome okay thanks all right so now we'll turn back to ieb and um a topic that we've kind of been hearing about but now we can actually hear in this new year lewis happy new year happy new year good to see you and we're happy new year happy new year thank you and and I'll turn right to interim uh ieb director Caitlyn thank you chair and Burke and Lewis are actually going to explain to the commission what has been going on with the floor plan changes so I'll turn it right over to Burke thank you Caitlyn and uh happy new year to all the commissioners everyone out there today I'm joined by Lewis Lizano the CRM casino regulatory manager at encore and we're going to walk you through an amendment to the approved casino floor plan at encore 205 cmr 138.07 subsections three states and approved floor plan may be amended upon request by the licensee and approved by the bureau the bureau will review the request either preliminarily approve it deny it request further information or request modifications you will find on page 66 of the packet the preliminary approval for this amendment I'm going to turn it over to Lewis who has a power point to walk us through all the specific changes and afterwards he and I can handle any questions you may have Lewis thank you Burke good afternoon madam chair commissioners and happy new year uh as Burke explained uh we're here to discuss encore's amendments to the existing approved floor plan and just to clarify this is not related to the possibility of encore's east of broadway expansion but in respect to that expansion IEV was recently advised by encore that they should be ready to present their proposed expansion in the next few weeks encore requested an amendment to the approved floor plan in october IEV issued a preliminary approval in november and final approval in december based on surveillance inspection equipment inspection and necessary documentation in respect to the amendment of the existing floor plan the changes the change decreases the total gaming area from 211 971 square feet to 204 807 square feet which decreases by 7164 square feet and although there is a decrease in gaming space 78 slot machines were added and the table game numbers did not change to provide to provide a specific details I'll review each of the five sections that encore has amended this slide references each area but I think it'll be easier to follow along on the next few slides which displays a print of the gaming floor the first amended location is the removal of the restaurant square footage in front of frank and necks and shakeshack this area displayed in two sections of green on the left has never been used as gaming space for slots for table games and reduced the gaming area by 5995 square feet the second amended location is the former sports betting kiosk area which previously had 10 sportsway during kiosk and is reallocated as a gift giveaway room used to distribute promotional items like jacket sweaters and other items this resulted in a reduction of 322 square feet of gaming and is highlighted in green on the left lower section of the map the third amended location is the removal of the snack bar behind the poker cage this area is highlighted in blue on the top of the fourth slide this area is highlighted in blue because it added 972 square feet of gaming and added 78 slot machines the fourth amended area is the removal of the existing balcony and area in front of the on deck restaurant which previously had 70 or sorry seven sports wager and kiosk this area is highlighted in green on the right side and the existing balcony never had slots for table games and the fifth and final area is the removal of b1 gaming area which was previously known as the express sports book which had 20 sports wager and kiosk this reduced the gaming area by 832 square feet so this includes the details regarding the amendment the amendment of the approved floor plan and i'm happy to answer any questions you may have so louis this is commissioner brian going back to the poker room how many tables do they have in there now and am i right that when they put this back into use for gaming it went to slots and not poker tables so the table game the poker only poker was up there and poker did not change they just moved poker from one side to another so they started with 24 and with the amendment they still have 24 right and so they added 972 square feet none of that went to more poker tables it all went to slots is that right yes correct okay any follow-up questions to commissioner brian's question commissioners i'm assuming i guess but yeah before i mean i guess i could say that i'm disappointed that they didn't kind of add more service in that regard i know that was been an issue i don't know if we've continued to hear from poker players and dealers but just my two cents on the close to 1,000 square feet i made another way of framing that would be i know that when we visited you could see whether there was a prominent waiting list of our demand for more poker tables no effects shifted um louis and berth you probably are well aware of our history of questions on poker tables how are you feeling about the demand in speaking that i don't think the demand has really changed and i don't want to speak pro-core but i think they have future plans for poker in respect to the expansion across the street which may significantly increase the amount of poker tables that's a ways away best case scenario um you know so that's sort of a deferred payment on that one um love for you to maybe have some more detailed conversations with them louis about and bark about just poker in general and and i don't know again i know we had some pacifist communications with some patrons and some dealers who will hoping to get back to work early on post covid i don't know what the status of that is right now whether that's changed though yeah i think uh months ago uh we were fielding some poker complaints at on core and uh you know a little bit of them were about the waiting lines and things like that i don't think we've been receiving that as much right louis anymore is that that's not the the uh the complaints decrease yeah and whenever we get those complaints we you know we forward them to on four and they reach out to those uh individuals and talk to them about what's going on on the casino floor madam chair um i also had been you know way way back received a lot of um communication about the poker and i have not received any over the past few months and the only one or two that i did had to do with the amount of take that um on core takes compared to other casinos and i talked with burk and louis about that and they explained it to me and since then i really haven't heard anything from any of our poker players actually to be fair right so i think um you know commissioner brian um brian raised the right question and to the extent that you just continue to monitor that demand that would probably be helpful i agree with commissioner brian should there be an expansion it's going to take a little time before those poker tables actually are in playing operations so um anything further on on for the overall presentation from louis and we're on the poker area madam chair the only question i have is there any future plans to uh in front of the snack shops on the first floor did i miss something uh no no no plans uh they just did that previously was gaming space and they just required have requested to remove that as gaming space okay thank you so i do have i'm having a little bit of a challenge visually to see what that is commissioner hill so the space that was all tables right in front of frank and nick and has that changed or those tables were there tables there so i can um i just um can you see this floor plan so the it's the two areas so the what you're mentioning the two gaming pits on the gaming floor uh in front of the sports book that has stayed uh that's not moving uh the the two areas that they requested to reduce the gaming space was in front of shake shack and and frank and nicks which is currently just um uh tables for uh for patrons eating food and so they're taking away those tables where people could eat and putting in those tables are going to stay the same that that was just previously gaming space so they had the opportunity to add slots or table games and never did uh and and that area is just going to be reduced which they cannot add slots or table games now thank you so it's the tables say game floor is reduced got it thank you welcome commissioners the reason why we don't have it for vote is because this is an um um i e b um has uh the authority through an internal control correct to go right ahead and make these approvals to a red yes i'm sorry katelyn sorry to a red but yes oh it's to a rag okay i thought there was internal control controls too okay so um and the delta again on the overall the overall um i'm sorry if i missed that in your your the overall it's going to be a decrease of 7164 square feet okay so from 211 uh 1000 to 204 thank you all right i'll set commissioners thank you berk thank you lewis thank you katelyn great great start to your new position katelyn thank you all right now we're going to turn to our research and responsible gaming division and we have um director vandalin i'll let you do your introductions great uh thank you it's good to see all of you again um i'm here with long ban uh program manager for in the research and responsible gaming uh division um and today we're going to give you an update on the voluntary self exclusion program um with a specific focus on how we uh address and why we have the reinstatement session so and long i think you are going to drive the slide back for us today and uh just long and i will kind of tag team this presentation for you um before we turn it over for questions all right okay next slide please so um statutory and regulatory requirements so the voluntary self exclusion program was actually explicitly uh required both in the expanded gaming act as well as the act regulating sports wagering um this has been translated into both um 205 cmr 133 which is casino voluntary self exclusion and 205 cmr 233 which is sports wagering voluntary self exclusion and as it states in both of those regulations um in 130 301 and and 230 301 scope and purpose that placement of one's name on the voluntary self exclusion list is intended to offer individual one means to help address their problem gambling behavior and i think that this is this is really important when we say one means this is one means um and it's oftentimes one of the first means that that people take a step forward to address uh their gambling behavior and as i've said previously to the commission and elsewhere um i like to think of voluntary self exclusion as that sort of external control for persons who either struggle with or lack the internal controls to manage their their gambling behavior all right um and so these are findings from a very early evaluation of the voluntary self exclusion program when we launched voluntary self exclusion at plane rich park casino back in 2015 um we immediately started an evaluation project with the cambridge health alliance division on addiction and this was led by dr sara nelson from from there um and the the findings um i'll just review quickly here that 17 percent reported breaching their self exclusion um during the duration of their self exclusion um rates of gambling abstention after voluntary self exclusion um are higher uh those who uh continued to gamble a large percentage reported reductions in both gambling frequency as well as losses that 75 percent of voluntary self exclusion enrollees who completed a follow-up interview um meaning um that the the research team followed up with them um after the duration of their exclusion they reported reductions of gambling and finally voluntary self exclusion enrollees reported positive outcomes related to well-being mental health and relationships which really highlights the fact that gambling um gambling behavior does affect much larger than just the the individual but um a broader picture of their relationships and overall well-being it's not just about the gambling behavior um and i'd like to say you know voluntary self exclusion has been in in terms of responsible gaming measures um uh voluntary self exclusion has been widely evaluated and um these findings are relatively consistent um with other findings from from similar types of uh evaluations over time um we're going to talk to you just a little bit about um sort of problem gambling and relapse and we have just two slides here to to address this is a little bit more background so this is from um magic the massachusetts gambling impact cohort study that um was wrapped up in winty 21 or was published in 2021 and this is uh the cohort was a six-year longitudinal study of gambling and problem gambling in massachusetts um this was a an incredibly important study and a unique study in that we were able to track um around 3 000 individuals over the course of this six-year study and we had a high concentration of individuals who were both at risk um as well as problem gamblers um within this cohort the top line finding of this is is captured here and i know this chart can be a little confusing but there's a lot of movement of individuals gambling behavior and the most movement happens with individuals who are problem or pathological gamblers and those who would be considered at-risk gamblers and you'll see that when i say movement you'll see that there's there's a lot of movement from problem gamblers to at-risk gambling and even movement from problem gamblers back to recreational gamblers and similarly at-risk gamblers almost half of them um in a follow-up cohort study were uh recreational gamblers and some became problem gamblers there's just a lot of movement here and i think that when we think about how we structure the voluntary self-exclusion program and what information we provide to individuals who are both enrolling into the voluntary self-exclusion program but even more so when people are preparing to have their name removed from that voluntary self-exclusion list it's important to provide them with um relevant and timely information next slide and i will turn this this part over to long for the next few slides here yeah happy new year chair happy new year commissioners it's nice to see you guys um i today i'm just going to talk about the relapse and then sort of talk about the process of the the vsc enrollment and the reinstatement um so the relapse so this is a slide where i pulled from the wisconsin public psychiatry network teleconference where it was reported about 90 of people who experienced problem gambling relapse and it's really discussion about the relapse when it happens how we move away from stigma and move towards a um solution-based approach um really moving away from you know the lack of knowledge and misinformation and prejudice and discrimination that sort of feels the stigma how do we move that away and to sort of uh promote learning reevaluate and growth in the patrons and i think this is very central because i think a lot of the vsc with a game sense advisor we we move away from that where we meet the client and sort of understand where they're at and if the client do the patient the patient relapse that they are met at the game sense advisor in the game sense information center to talk about some support that they can offer and so the next slide i'm going to talk about the key elements of the vsc as marc mentioned it is a statutory and regulatory requirement so in the requirement you know we do offer the vsc virtually and in in person so a patron can go into any of the three casinos into the game sense information center to do a read to enrollment or they can go on the live chat on game sense ma.com's website and live chat let you know the game sense advisor of know that they're interested and the game sense advisor will initiate a zoom meeting where they will meet and have a enrollment session one important thing to note about the vsc process the enrollment forms you know once it's completed it gets sent to us and we sort of evaluate and sort of assess to make sure that all the regulatory requirements are fulfilled before accepting it because we want to ensure that it meets all the requirements before we enroll them in and the enrollment right after they complete we do offer a hard copy and anytime if a patron forgets or needs a copy they can always contact us at ngc and we would always mail them a hard copy so that's something that we always provide for the patron if they ever need a copy of their enrollment form the next item you know i really want to stress is that you know the patron is freely knowingly and voluntarily enrolling into the program this is a huge huge component because it takes a lot for someone to admit that they have a problem gambling so we want to acknowledge that and i think this is very very important and understanding that in the process of the enrollment we're it's not there's a there is a structure but it's not scripted meaning we meet the patient where they're at understanding you know how we can offer support offering any referrals as needed and in one of the terms so i'm going to go to the terms and then i'm going to sort of go back to the second bullet but the terms of the program explained and discussed to the patrons is that it's an agreement between the patron and the licensees that you know they are going to exclude themselves from the property the licensees will also remove the motivation of the big winnings and the marketing and the rewards so this is one of the the items that we sort of work with um or the patron and the licensees make this agreement and the third bullet point the resources referrals are offered to the patrons this also includes a telephonic a follow-up with a peer specialist and also for a reminder for those folks who would like a reminder and so the process of the reminder we let folks know so typically a month before i would go into the list and anyone who's requested a reminder i would send them either an email or a mail or both per their request of that term that are expiring and explaining the reinstatement session process and to let them know that if they do not complete a reinstatement they will be continued to remain on the list and one key important factor to understand is the VSC enrollment is confidential we will never reach out to the patron unless they've requested a follow-up from either a peer specialist or from us to remind them the terms are ending and or if the application submitted is not completed or we unfortunately we're not able to accept because it does not meet the regulatory requirements and those are the only three times that we reach out and contact the patrons so here i want to sort of drill down and sort of show the process of the one of the requirements for their VSC enrollment here are the terms so in the form if you look at it on the right hand side there's the left hand side there is a box for the initial so in all the terms the the patrons will need to go in and initial understanding the terms so in the in the session the game sense advisor will read the terms but also take the time to explain it because there's a lot of legal terms and a lot of um rovage that might be very complex so the job of the session or the enrollment session is to explain specifically the terms so these are the terms i i cut out specifically talking about the reinstatement session so the first one it states that they're only eligible for reinstatement upon completion of the duration and they can request removal by completing a reinstatement session with a designated agent the name will continue to be on the list after the completion of the duration of exclusion until such time that they submit a petition for removal and it's been approved from the commission or its designee and the second term is that they agree to participate in a reinstatement session with a designated agent in order to remove from the list the reinstatement session shall include a review of the risk and responsibilities of gaming budget setting and a review of problem gambling resources and a reinstatement session will can be scheduled by contacting the gamline which is win 800 gam 1234 or contacting the the mass gaming commission and then the last piece is it's up to the reminder so this is something that they can elect if they would like a reminder so by uh initialing and sort of selecting how they would like to be reminded and or they don't want to be reminded um they can click on the no reminder but this is an option for folks who would like to get an uh a mailing or email once they're closer to their um term so the next piece you know because there's a lot of terms you know and people might forget we developed some uh some documents that we want to implement or um provide to the newly enrolled the first documents is is a business card so one side of the business card has the information the contact information for the game sense but also also contains the information to contact the helpline and the reverse side is the information that the game sense advisor will complete upon completion of the enrollment is the date of their enrollment the term of the enrollment and the date they're eligible to reinstate and then um the initial or the name of the game sense advisor who completed that enrollment so this is something you know we developed a business card so it's something that the patron can put in their wallet or you know can carry on or carry with them with the information um of the enrollments and the next material that we we created um after talking to one of the game sense advisor of how do we simplify the terms because the terms are complex um how do we simplify it how do we provide a document that we can hand out to the patron who enrolled um and so one of the the outcome was developed this palm card uh one side um I'm going to go from the right to the left um you see the information the contact information for a game sense information center and also the helpline and then the other side is really explaining sort of well what to expect now that I've enrolled what possible to make that a bit bigger oh thanks sure yeah so so here's um the term some of the terms that people or both patrons commonly either forget or we would like them to remind them um part of the bsc um any questions and you know and this is something that we we developed recently um and we're haven't implemented um extensively but something that we've sort of developed and we're in the process of also translating it to different languages um traditional Chinese simplified Chinese Vietnamese Spanish Arabic and um Brazilian Portuguese so we hope to have these two documents in those six languages in addition to English and well I brought up um on the reinstatement that the third bullet might be oversimplifying the process because it suggests that you just have to chat with a game sense advisor no appointment need to just call or chat with game sense when your period ends let us know if you need help entering the casino floor process is more involved than that right so the reinstatement um and and I can talk about it if I may uh can I table that question because the next couple slides I want to talk about the reinstatement process and so that could explain sort of what is the process of the reinstatement right and uh but specifically if there is a way that we can make this more clear we we can absolutely make a change to this this brochure before we begin why there's just repeating it especially translating right yeah correct correct good thank you sorry let me okay there we go okay so here's the key elements to the the reinstatement session again it can be conducted in person and virtually by a designated agent um the difference between the the reinstatement session and the uh enrollment once the reinstatement session is completed this the patron science and the game sense advisor science it goes into effect immediately there's not a process for me to or for us to verify or to check because again this the reinstatement session is really as mentioned on the third bullet because an educational session medical clinical assessment so it's really sort of meeting with the patron and sort of checking in the readiness to return to the gaming floor setting you know offering support and setting budget decision planning and positive play so it's really a chance for us to meet them you know the patron where they're at offering any support and really sort of counter that that stigma that comes in and saying hey we're here if down the line you relapse you can come you know ask for support and we're always available um the second bullet again the patron is freely doing this freely knowingly and voluntarily reinstating to the gaming it's very important because you know it takes a lot right for a patron to admit that they have a gambling uh gambling problem now they're coming in saying you know what I think I'm ready to come back to the floor and so they're making that tough decision and we want to sort of be there and available to support them in that effort and I think the reinstatement session is really offering that that that space so the patron can feel that they can't seek support down the line that they needed and the very last bullet that is very important is the resource and referrals offered to patrons so it sort of going back to the chair's question so part of the process yes they will do a either in person or virtual meeting with a destined agent just to verify it's the patron one two really sort of you know getting you're putting a phase to have a conversation because these are difficult conversation really offering that human side of having a conversation of okay now you're making that tough decision to go back in the gaming floor how can we support you how can we you know offer resources as needed and once that's all done and discussed as they both sign the patient will sign and the gaming or the gaming the game sense advisor will also sign and that becomes into a system and it becomes effective immediately and we we require we recommend that the patron printed out or we've given them a print out and hold on to that reinstatement for up to seven days because the operators might take for the gaming the regulation requires them to update every 72 hours so the casino operators might not update their VSE list but if they're on the gaming floor they're able to go in the gaming floor because they completed a reinstatement session by having that document so we recommend that they hold on to for seven days and are the regs we require the sports wagering operators to update their list every 24 hours but again we also recommend patrons to hold on to that documents in case if there's questions they can produce that and the operator should accept that that one can i interrupt this just for i think we all understand was for the point of certification the VSE and the reinstatement applies to all three that's correct yes properties correct and in terms of sports wagering do you want that visually except for one operator right not so i'm sorry so when they vse for the gaming it is all three properties and also it extends to the operators sports wagering sports books so correct and because that's the decision that the operators have opted for vse one vse null so that's that's the decision of the operator but if the patron vse for the sports wagering it applies to all sports wagering and again the casino operators they will extend it to their properties as well correct thank you thanks for that so i'm i'm going to talk more of the data so what we have thus far looking at since through that as of december 26 2023 beginning of you know when vse started we have approximately about 2300 patrons who have vseed and out of that we have about 32 percent who completed reinstatement and the reason i say about this because the data prior to the launch of the vse app we don't have a lot of the history it's sort of migrated into the system so you know i'm working with it and sort of sorting out and sort of having a better picture but so this is a good estimate of what we have and then looking at that of the 727 who successfully completed reinstatement we see that about 15 percent re-envolved back into the vse so we you know and again this is just an approximation looking back you know hopefully once we sort out all the vse prior to the vse app launch we can get a better picture but this is sort of an estimate right now we have we see about 15 percent of those who have completed reinstatement go back and re-envolved and then here with a collaboration with the IAB we looked at all the vse who were on the gaming floor for property and this is just looking from january of this year or last year 2023 to december of 2021 we see that a total of 124 unique vse patrons were caught on the gaming floor this is important to distinguish because we do see that some properties they have some repeated patrons who have vse who will show up on the floor multiple times so the unique numbers went at 124 out of the 124 24 actually were eligible to reinstate but did not be in state prior to being on the gaming floor so that's about approximately 19 percent of total vse's on the gaming floor that were eligible to reinstate that did not reinstate it is high and oh go ahead mark I was just going to say just in other words the duration of their exclusion the one year three years five years had ended but they had not completed the reinstatement session yet oh sorry mark I think this is your sign I took it sorry you did a great job thank you and madam chair could you please repeat what you just said yeah so the second table down below eligible to reinstate vse's on the the gaming floor per property so this is highlighting that there were in basically in 2023 of the individuals that were on the gaming floor found on the gaming floor 24 of them were eligible to reinstate in other words the duration of the exclusion period had ended when they enroll in the program they sign up for either one year three year five year or lifetime but one year's three years five years but they had not yet completed that reinstatement session that in that end point where once you do that your your name is removed from the list and the data set above vse's on the gaming floor do we know at what point those individuals were intercepted in other words had they gambled do we have a point in time for any of this data uh long do you it's that we've been working with iab was that level of detail provided yeah we can provide it we can get it yeah so um we do have some data um iab do have all the data that we have referring referring you know referring to uh commissioner skinner's question we do have that information um i did not receive it but we were happy to get that and pat it all off perfect thank you i'm interested specifically in uh the number of patrons who were intercepted upon um a winning a jackpot something that triggers the um confiscation rules the uh commissioner skinner is your question of the 124 unique individuals or 133 total how many of them were intercepted because of a jackpot win that's right as opposed to major what is what was the other ways in which they were discovered on the gaming floor that's right right and it um identified as a result of a wager jackpot wager or as opposed to identified just as part of their routine checks on on bsc folks being on the gaming floor whatever those might be and and to your point i i think that information would be helpful too i don't know if that should come from you folks or from the iab but that's data that that i'm interested in okay that would certainly require a collaboration with our iab to get that level of detail and some of that might be executive session it has to do with any security issues okay i believe that's the conclusion the slides and happy to take any further questions commissioners questions can i just go back to my my question i'd also like that that data with respect to the second data set eligible to reinstate the gaming floor and your full question commissioners can or just for clarity please you would like on that with respect to the second set just to understand the same question as applies to the first data set just trying to understand at what point during the via seed individuals visit uh were they intercepted were they identified and and i did want to make just one last comment about this this final slide um the 19 percent to us is something it's a data point that we want to continue to try to take a look at and how we can reduce that number of individuals whose duration had ended but they just hadn't completed that reinstatement session um if it is a case where they forgot that this reinstatement session was a requirement um we want to make sure that we're being as clear as possible both during the enrollment period and anything in between where there's an opportunity to communicate with with them we really like it when people say i would like to receive a reminder email or letter prior to the end of my exclusion so that um we know that that's a really important touch point but again that's voluntary so we'll continue to try to take a look at how we can you know do a better job of decreasing that 19 percent overall along maybe you want to take down the slides oh sorry i thought sorry i thought i stopped sharing my apologies to that last point mark which is an important one because you don't want folks going on the gaming floor and gambling thinking they're they're properly there only to find if they hit the jackpot or or they're noticed that they're asked to leave um are you um i know that you use surveys before on the early research slide um when we find these folks on on the gaming floor are you able to ask them um do you have some process are you planning on that kind of a process so that they could say oh i really thought i was properly on as opposed to i've been coming here for the last six months nobody's bothered me you know i finally went big and somebody now is is troubled yeah i think that's an important data point right yeah and so chair you you've asked a really great question so part of the process when you know a vsc is down on the gaming floor um we work with the operators at the security to bring the patron to the the game sense permission center and again because it's a really a solution based approach it's really sort of meeting them where they're at having a conversation and really understanding you know how we can offer support um if they are still on the vsc list you know what additional support can we sort of offer them but those who do are eligible you know we have that conversation and sort of get a better sense of um you know how can we better message or how do we better you know communicate to remind folks um and you know and one fascinating drilling down the numbers of all the unique um uh patron who are eligible to reinstate not all of them completed reinstatements um and it's really eye-opening to see you know there are some folks even though they are caught on the gaming floor they eligible did not reinstate um and so that's sort of sort of fascinating sort of understanding so those folks who choose not to reinstate what's going on how do we offer support how do we support them and meet them where they're at commissioner maynard you're nodding your head you shouldn't have a follow-up i mean i don't know what you're envisioning for a process but this is so thank you madam chair i um first of all um most importantly you know i want to thank the game sense advisors for all the works that they do every day on on these issues and and meeting folks where they are um i am interested in the communications piece of this and i've talked to mark and long about it um don't know if maybe connecting with mills and and dave susan or or someone um i looked at the materials they're very good um but just like everything we've been looking at lately i think there's an opportunity for it to be clearer um uh in short i mean it looks like it's pulled directly from the reg but most you know readers don't read uh in reg they read in in uh plain english and for example you know i i wrote out yesterday you know under the subheading of what happens to your winnings you lose them right if you're on the vse you don't get your money right and i want to say that here right maybe that's another way we can communicate you don't get your winnings and and you don't recover your losses and and how can we communicate that in a way that that makes it effective again we're talking about the margins this works for the most right and mark pointing it's just a margin thing how can we close the margin so i think communication uh as long said is is key um i think that we've got to get more skin in the game from the operators it can't just be well we look for someone when they win a jackpot right i think they have to be a little more proactive on on finding uh folks that they think are on the um on the on the floor um and then yeah i think that you know capturing as much information from this small this this group of people um doing it in a healthy way that doesn't discourage or make them uh suspect of of why we're asking questions i think if we can do that it's it's helpful so those are my thoughts but i think it's really a marginal uh communications uh issue and and i think it's very solvable with mark and lung and team putting their heads together thank you commissioner maynard um i want to there was one piece here that i think uh chair jet stein you you mentioned and and commissioner maynard um we did take a look at uh those individuals who um had violated the voluntary self-exclusion the duration was done but they just hadn't completed the reinstatement how many of them had requested a um notification um that sort of opt-in notification and most of them had not requested that opt-in notification so i think that that was an important data point and uh chair jet stein i think you know it all kind of comes back to like the game sense team when somebody does um violate that self-exclusion agreement and so i think that while that is there we we could probably do a better job um or we can document uh in a more thorough way sort of what what happened and perhaps where we can tighten up the communication piece as commissioner maynard pointed out yeah and it's not to shame anyone it's mainly so that they you know don't find themselves in that predicament you know it's on the internet so i agree with commissioner maynard it's a margin but i think you have a really um you've got a good goal there it's 19 percent in terms of actual numbers not bad right but you know this is what your program is long and uh long didn't mention but i think i spoke to you and you're anticipating translating all the information into five or six six so currently we have six but we want to add an extra one we want to add um Haitian Creole um so we definitely want to include that so that's going to be total seven yeah so we're continually adding different languages as you know expanding and our website the game sense ma.com has a widget where it allows the website information to be translated in different languages and so we recommend and we refer folks to it and it does really fantastic job um if i may um you know the question you asked regarding the contact so when the a patient contacts us or contact the game sense advisor and sort of ask about their term that is usually when we communicate with them and reinforce please remember to reinstate when your term expires uh but typically you know when we do get phone calls from patron because like you know some patrons might forget uh a year might be too long and they might forget when they're they're eligible when they do reach out to us we do sort of explain to them and give them the answer but also explain to them please complete a read statement so that's the communication that we do offer and we do to reinforce if they reach out to us unfortunately because this list is confidential we cannot reach out to them unless they've given us permission um and i think that's what mark was alluding if the folks who requested a reminder we can definitely tighten up um the the information that we send out because that is actually sent out via email or mail mail or both if they requested it so we do send those out to folks and then long manages that on a monthly basis so and and to be clear to properly be in state you actually have to execute a document correct so once you meet and have a conversation discussion with the game sense advisor the the patient has to sign it and the game sense advisor also has to sign it and then long encourages everybody to bring their pages correct so you know because it gives them you know they go into giving force if something happens they can show that document and they they are uh we get that read stated commissioners go ahead commissioner i just have a question long can they get a digital copy of that i'm just thinking realistically here my doctor hands me a note this is your appointment is next year and then they also email me through through my my chart and i pay more attention to the emails than i do the card um is that possible yeah so we do uh we do have that option so if they're doing a reinstatement in in the casino um they print it out and give it to the individual or the patron if the patron requests an email um there's not a reason why we cannot email them but virtually and in a virtual reinstatement yes that will be sent to them and so you know they can print it out or they can download in the pdf format so it is a pdf format that they get and they can either print it out or keep it but we do recommend them to hold on to it for seven days in case something happens this is their verification that complete the reinstatement session commissioner maynard you made me think that um when i get reminders a lot of times it's a text message and we're only offering snail mail or email and i'm wondering if we should be offering a text message um and that a lot of times that gets noticed more than an email or or a letter that's coming in the mail you can give the choice right right or they can ask for all three or ask for all three yeah we can explore that the you know um we had that slide on relapse and i you know we're presenting this information as individuals who violate the voluntary self-exclusion agreement but overall these are individuals who at one point in times that i realize i have a problem and i need to get some help here and there's a violation of this agreement and that's relapse and this is you know as we say in a lot of different contexts relapse is part of recovery and so these are individuals that while they're discovered on the gaming floor gambling and violation of this agreement there are also individuals that are struggling to control their gambling and whatever we can do to support them on this overall recovery journey from you know from beginning to end um is really important and that's why that human touch with a game sense advisor um is important that this is not an enforcement or an administrative function we never want it to be that we want to recognize that this is somebody a human being that's really wanting to get some help and that's what we want to provide for them and and just you know a lot of other states this and where i you know i've moved from Iowa one of the things that bothered me was that it felt like an administrative function and that is enforced by security at a casino and that in Iowa and many many other states that's how this is done and um and while we absolutely need to do what we need to do remove somebody from the gaming floor if they're in violation of this agreement we also need to recognize that from enrollment if they're found on the gaming floor to this reinstatement session that we can do a really good job of of helping people correct and to echo um Commissioner Maynard's point you know the game sense advisors do a great job because it's really sort of being that the humanizing voice for someone who are having difficulties really putting a face because the park said like other jurisdiction it has done more of a punitive and we're very proud and we're proud that we do take the human aspect and meeting folks where they're at and sort of understanding and offering support and trying to sort of tackle the stigma behind it excellent any further questions from long or mark long it's great to see you and excellent Bob mark thank you so much thank you thank you okay we'll move on to item number eight commissioners I know that Joe is is out today but uh he's very strong I want to make sure uh team oh I see mary I don't necessarily see lily but mary happy new year happy new year no lily is on vacation this week so you're stuck with me for today we love it okay well madame chair and commissioners today we have a request from the city of spring fields department of health and human services for budget modification of the current safe ride home grant this project's purpose is to develop public awareness campaigns to increase communications and community outreach about alcohol impaired driving funding for this reallocation became available as a result of delays in the hiring process of the community health worker the scope of this project would now include surveys which may be able to better inform the public on excess alcohol and associated duis what they want to research would go a long way in developing the work plan for this program staff recommends the transferring of the funds to the research funding and also recommends allowing the purchase of the identified uh supplies that they need so questions I've had the pleasure of being able to work um madame chair with the committee on this as we put this before you and i'm certainly very supportive and mary i don't want to speak on behalf of the um department but i believe you folks are in support of this as well yes we are questions commissioners okay we do need a vote on this i i'm i'm waiting to see if there's if we have any comments reading i've got commissioners i want to see if we have commissioners going to join us commissioners giving me the thumbs up commissioner ryan leave any questions okay commissioner skinner are you all set just one minute i had to i had to run and find my paperwork i'm sorry no worries this was carried over from the last meeting and it was just in a different pile it's a great madame chair yeah commissioner hilt i um with no other questions i moved the commission approved modification of the 2023 community mitigation fund grant to the springfield department of health and human services for the springfield safe ride home project by authorizing a reallocation of 20 000 dollars 150 20 115 dollars in funding and a release of 2000 dollars as included in the commissioners packet and discussed here today second the only thing i would add is an editorial is that i just want to uh thank um commissioner colton carers for her leadership she's on the chief practice well and i support her efforts here um in the springfield department of human services anything further christian ryan hi mr hill hi uh commissioner skinner hi commissioner maynard on and i vote yes five zero great thank you thanks mary okay happy new year happy new year all right now we're moving on to um the diversity audit that the mgc has been um really responsible for i believe it's our party commissioner skinner do you want to tee it up and then i know you're turning to um venice like uh chief mill true is not able to make it today thank you madam chair uh i will tee it up for venice by saying i think she has a very good report today that you'll appreciate thank you um and just this just a kind of a recap we're doing a workforce and supply diversity audit on the three casino so that would be plain ridge park casino mgm and on core boston harbour um and this is to see how well um or how efficiently they are um reporting their diversity efforts um i do uh want to make note that this is voluntary that they're disclosing this information to us it is not um a policy um so there are three phases to the audit we've already completed phases one and two phase one was the kickoff and um which involved the document request to conduct the audits phase two was the testing phase and the walkthroughs of the information provided and phase three is draft in the report so we're really happy to report that all three of the casinos are in phase three which are the draft in phases the reporting phases we expect to receive a preliminary report by january the 19th uh and within that report we hope to see the recommendations with regards to the casinos to to hear about um the findings and then the next steps would be would um would be a debrief with arson and our project team and then we would close out with the final meeting with the casinos questions for uh benny swine happy new year benny swine nice to see your day i want to thank arson and uh can you remind me that was a bit of some sort Todd or how did that come around or benny swine you were probably part of the procurement team right right so we put out a bid um uh a public request um for four proposals to do the audit and they won the successful they were successful and um received that bid i believe it came down to two two agencies put in for it and our sim was the winner out of those two got it thank you anything further on that we look forward to the final reports i am too okay all right commissioners thank you benny swine thank you uh commissioner skinner now we're going to turn to ten and eleven um the executive director screening committee update and then the ieb director screening committee so first commissioner brian and commissioner ming yes um so we are down to a committee of four obviously with heathers departure um but we have marched on we have started the first round of interviews um we have some i believe a few more still to be scheduled but i i would anticipate first round would be done before the end of the month uh we reserve the right to do second round if we needed it before we make the recommendations to the full commission but we are moving ahead i don't know commissioner made and wants to add anything just that um commissioner brian has done a fantastic job chairing this and keeping everything moving questions for do we have a sense as to um as you're going through interviews what you anticipate for the commission in terms of numbers of ultimate candidates for us to be considering no i mean the she directed we were given is that the idea is you forward at least two um so that would be my anticipation you would get at least two if we have a trio or more that we find are all you know so compelling that we would forward to you we would do that but at a minimum you would get to but i don't think it would be more than three and in any circumstances a commissioner may or i don't know if you have any thoughts yeah i i think i keeping an open mind is just just where i am but i think um yeah minimum two for sure two is required by law i think yeah but it's not like we're capping it's not like our thought is we're only submitting two if that's what your question is the question really is are these viable candidates that we think should go to the body of five um then they would be forwarded to the body of five thank you that's helpful commissioners any other questions okay now with respect to um and and so uh you i think a timeline will be important for us to have uh so we'll just keep it on our agenda setting so that you can keep us up to date for timeline purposes iv um director screening commissioner standard commissioner hill mhm commissioner hill jump in at any time if if you need to um so happy to report that um this committee started the new year um with interviews our first round was not first round but our first interview was on tuesday um top of the top of the year the very top of the year we have uh identified 14 candidates that we would like to um talk to they are scheduled through next friday the 12th i think all but two of them have been scheduled uh and so uh that being said uh we hope to uh convene on the 17th i want to say the day before the full commission meets on the 18th with the goal of talking through and identifying candidates to put through to the and recommend to the full commission for further interviews um i think um like i think i know like the other committee our committee has not predetermined the number of candidates we'd like to advance we are just reviewing the applicants uh conducting the interviews and seeing where we land but we are off to a to a really good start commissioner hill i would only add that i'm very happy at the um type of candidates that have come forward and put their name forward for consideration very different backgrounds uh but would be great leaders so we have a lot of work in front of us but i'll tell you we've we've had some great great applicants um to see and meet in the next couple of weeks yeah really good pull commissioner hill thank you for sharing that that's really really helpful um anything further okay return to commissioner's update um during our application process uh we were trying to imagine how we make clear the regulated um landscape in massachusetts and commissioner bryan um the idea of a good housekeeping sale has come up we don't have that in any regulation but i thought that maybe we could kick off the conversation today to see what next steps might be needed um from our our staff and and from a regulation if necessary i don't know if you want me to kick it off or whether that was the kickoff just that was your kickoff yeah this came up it's funny as we go through past minutes from you know when we were getting ready to launch things have come back up um for me to sort of bring up again at agenda setting this was one of them that came up organically already um and the idea being i think it came out of one of the roundtables that we had in terms of how do you help the licensees that we have who are subjected to the requirements and the costs of licensing stand apart from those that are in the illegal market and i was i think very taken aback i think of the first of the year where you had even cnn putting out answers to where you could go on platforms that were legal platforms that blew me away so to the extent that we can make it as easy as possible for consumers here to know they're on a legal platform i'd love to find a way to do it one of the ways was this idea of having a seal that went in line with getting a massachusetts license and so that when then there could be a a psa almost that went out to consumers in massachusetts to know if you're on this platform massachusetts you know you're in a legal platform so uh i guess the question for staff also is is that something that would require a rag change somehow in terms of the structure of what they offer on their websites or their apps et cetera um and then also just you know i see mills on muta 2 just a design component and conversations with them and you know i don't want to make this cumbersome on the licensees i would see this as something that's a value add for them and for the consumers i would just add this um i think it you know we've got the apples and the googles out there that are doing sending out advertising and they there's not always clarity to those big organizations as to who is actually licensed and who's ill and i and to the extent that we can leave this conversation by helping to not only have our list of licensees you know very prominent on our website something that um you know media and advertising agents could see that this is um a licensed and approved operator you know we want to help uh those in the in the business uh get it right so um i think we turn now commissioner brian to todd and knows uh to see but but next steps could we do and also we have to turn to the commissioners do we like the idea but maybe we should know what means for the work for our team and then what it would mean for the operators todd yes well certainly from a legal perspective i think we would probably need a regulation of some sort uh just to ensure that there's a uniform approach and a clear understanding as to what the expectation is what it means um and how we go about um achieving that so uh we can we can certainly start thinking about that i don't know i haven't looked into this so i don't know if this exists in any space within this industry as you mentioned it certainly does in other places so i don't is mark still i have a memory that maybe does vancouver do this is british columbia do this i feel like there might be another international regulatory body that does this just as weighing in i just can just add a note here commissioners that new jersey does have a seal that they require it's usually on the footer of the website i'm not clear if it's on the apps themselves or to probably check with our operators to confirm that but curacao does as well on you may be on i think ontario may as well yes no brian so we we could certainly check with other jurisdictions but it is something that other jurisdictions and countries have done and justin did this do you think it has impact do you think it helps in terms i think it's it's very useful for knowing at a glance if you're a certain consumer and and uh you want to see the verification it's quite helpful and i know that um in past practice when i went and when i was looking at whether the other companies just to figure out like where are these companies operating and where are they regulated it's a helpful tool to be able to scroll down to the bottom of their homepage for example and see that they have the seals from whichever jurisdictions that they're officially regulated and authorized to do business and so i i think it's i think it is helpful tom what are you thinking in terms of um design and and and but what we might be able to do i don't know do you thought about it yeah no that's a good question um you know i think david susan and i would uh you know we'd work internally and then we'd also work with some of our um uh partners who help us with graphic elements um and then have you know conversations through the sports measuring division with the licensees about what requirements uh they may need to see uh for the specific graphic on on their platforms seems to be a good thing to kick off the new year with um commissioners anyone have any questions or doubts about it no doubts just want to make sure that um as tom said that you know i think this is a partnership with commissioner brian kind of said and that it actually helps and making sure they're involved in you know what is what does it look like where does it go ultimately you know the commission can have to say but i think there's got to be buy-in across the across the universe on this to make it work and make people understand what it is makes sense any other concerns or questions or so i think then the um first steps is to uh maybe take justin's suggestions and see um if there's a reg new jersey is employed and or Ontario and and see how we can replicate and um come up with something that uh is a quick a quick look to say you know to be our licensee of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts okay anything else commissioner brian are you all set on that all good i'm all set all right commissioners that is 1230 do you have any of the business wish i hill did i see a yes you do have more business i'm teasing the only business the only business i'm watching right now is my dog looking at a squirrel on the other side of the door and i don't know what's going to happen when i open that door i did see you kind of smiling earlier and i thought it was a little bit out of context so i assume you're getting some kind of joy from your your pet which is a great thing you can always tell an ip switch when there's going to be a storm because all the squirrels and the other little critters get out and do their business before it gets here and boy they are filling the backyard today commissioner hill you almost sound like a promoter only we talk about cows so there you go um so with that said i moved towards yarn thank you do i have a second second thanks commissioner skinner all right commissioner skinner i see you've got a new new attire on thank you for that looks good any further questions okay commissioner brian i commissioner hill i commissioner skinner hi commissioner maynard i vote yes five zero thanks everyone and thank you to the entire team thanks um it's hot for all your work