A warm round of applause for Justin, who leads up the autonomous world's wing of Zero X Park and also leads Lattice, and that's enough in shows, I think. Hi, hey everybody, got stuck in traffic, but here I am. So yeah, my name is Justin, co-founder of Zero X Park, and today we have a lovely self-led session about autonomous worlds. So before I kind of give it away to the people who are going to go through demos and talks and panels today, I want to give a little bit of context about, okay, what is Zero X Park, what is Autonomous Worlds, why are you folks here today? So kind of like the story of Zero X Park is really simple, there were a bunch of people working on this on-chain game called Dark Forest, and I happened to go to Mexico after a Twitter DM and lived with them for three months, and we were like, okay, let's start something together, and so myself and a subset of the people there created this foundation called Zero X Park, Remy joined us a week in, and then a bunch of Michael is here too, he works with us, so we have a couple of awesome people trying to, essentially, advance the plot. So what we mean by advance the plot is doing things that push the industry forward in a way that is basically kind of like a nonlinear step function. So usually I would say the way you kind of like make things move forward is by running conspiracies.  So the first three wings of Zero X Park when it started was applied cryptography, so we funded a bunch of people and coordinated a lot of learning groups around ZK and stuff like that. We had Ivan working on Dark Forest, so they were shipping new Dark Forest rounds, Andy who is here was working with Ivan as well, just basically grinding the game out for like six, seven, eight months, and they did very cool stuff, and we had two people, so Alvarez and I working on Lattice. So for a long time, it was just like nine months of research and soul searching. Our goal was to advance the plot of on-chain gaming, so how do we get more people to be able to build those large EVM applications? How do we figure out the design patterns that allow for those things to become way more interesting than they are right now? And like our two outputs after that research was a blog post trying to define what we mean by autonomous worlds and a piece of technological mud, so that mud is a game engine for on-chain games. And shortly after that, we built two kind of like cool products that we're going to show you today during the demos. So what we mean by autonomous worlds basically is any large on-chain system where autonomy and sovereignty is important for emergence to happen. So kind of like the way I talk about it is I think Ethereum Mainnet is the best MMO out there, but it only caters to Homo economicus, so people are obsessed with like money and competition. One thing I really care about is the fact that I would like society to be a bit more playful. So how do we create basically systems for Homo ludens instead of Homo economicus? And the way we define autonomous worlds is our systems that have autonomy, formalized rules and emergence. So if you think about Ethereum Mainnet, it has those properties, but Ethereum Mainnet is like a very kind of like non-suomorphic alien place to most of us. I think that is interesting with Ethereum Mainnet is its multi-modality. I can interact with that MMO by doing a swap on Uniswap and coexist with MEV bots and a lot of horrible stuff that happens there that nobody has any idea about. So it's a pretty great system, but how do we create more things like that that feel slightly more human and are slightly more pro-social? Because Ethereum Mainnet, I think, I mean, we're all here together because of Ethereum Mainnet to some extent, but I would argue that we can build systems that get people to make more friends and build more relationships. And the reason why I think autonomous worlds are quite important is because just like a lot of people make fun of NFTs, but the one thing that is interesting with NFTs is that there are on-chain values, like most tokens out there actually have references to off-chain value. And the thing that is interesting is an NFT is valuable for the sake of it, right? And kind of like if you keep building those systems that are more and more complex and have more and more like emerging into them, it's like real on-chain value, real on-chain drama, real on-chain history. And we think that this is going to unlock a lot of applications that first will need that like trustless oracle to those data before becoming more useful as an example to like off-chain stuff. So as an example, identity makes way more sense for autonomous worlds at first because you don't need this ugly kind of like meat space, cyberspace bridge. You can refer to things that happen on change that can be verified. You can refer to real relationships that have been like that we've reached consensus over in the EVM. So it's kind of like a way to bootstrap a bigger ecosystem when it comes to like Ethereum technology and like pushing the envelope as an example, basically. And my belief is I think autonomous worlds is a shot of being the biggest usage of gas in the tractor of attention in Ethereum over the next cycle of technology. So basically the technology we have right now caters to, hey, how do we get DeFi and NFTs to work, right? Like, roll up companies today, they're a go-to-market strategy, is stick the stuff that works on Ethereum right now, make it cheaper. What happens if we push the envelope further, right? Like what happens if we live in the future and we unlock new affordances? So yeah, I think that if you want to build autonomous worlds today, you need to live in the future, which basically means you need to kind of like cut corners or give up some form of security or whatever, but you need to project yourself to a place where as an example, we'll have a trillion gas per second, right? Like what does the world look like when we have a trillion gas per second? I think that right now, a lot of like applications, ideas are kind of like driven by scarcity of on-chain computation. So people do super crazy stuff with like scaling, ZK, FHE, MPC and stuff like that. But I think that one thing that is going to be quite interesting is what happens when we level up from an Apple II computer to an IBM mainframe that is Byzantine fault tolerant. We're going to have quite interesting applications. But today, if you want to do that, you have to cut corners. A future with on-chain physics. So what happens when we can kind of like simulate rules that have conservation laws that can be verified on chain, right?  Like what I think the internet would be more interesting if we get there. I think we also need to live in a world where we have multimodal interactions. So right now, when you think about video games, they're mostly like, they have one modality. So if you play Fortnite, you keep, you play Fortnite and the client and that's it. You can talk about it with your friends on Discord, but that's all you can do. I think the one thing that is interesting when you build systems of rules that don't necessarily have goals is that you have this multimodality that come in where people can interact with those set of rules in various different ways. To go back to the Ethereum mainnet as like the best MMO right now, it's multimodal. I can coexist with the MEV bots, the Uniswap developers and the client developers. We're just like different types of people that interact with the system. So yeah, like let's try to live in the future and pretend that we have the design patterns we need to get that multimodality. So kind of like what happened after we instigated this little like autonomous world wing of Xerox PARC. We got a bunch of people that showed up and started funding them. So DF and Ladas have been there since the beginning, but started funding DF Dow. We've been doing a really good job on kind of like extending dark for us and trying to make it more playful and simpler for normal people. Now in built Xgracia, which is basically kind of like 2D DNS for smart contracts. You can deploy smart contracts in a grid and interact with them.  So we brought more and more people to London where we're running an autonomous world residency and we started doing essentially this thing where, hey, let's try to create a scene together and build things for each other. Like how do we create interdependence amongst this ecosystem? There's a lot of cool stuff that is coming out. A bunch of people are going to talk about what they've been working on today. So I'm not going to spoil anything, but yeah, solid team. And really the thing we're trying to do right now is how do we instigate a seniors? A seniors is like, if you add genius to scene, it gets seniors. Brian Eno came up with that term. So seniors is basically like the intelligence of a whole group of people, which is more often than not greater than some of its parts because no single company or group can create an entire industry. And if they do more often than not, they suck up all the oxygen in the room and it becomes very boring. So how do we coordinate in a way that is like basically positive some? And I know this term is kind of a meme today, but I think it's really important. So yeah, what are we doing right now? How are we actually advancing the plot of autonomous worlds? Well, through toolings. So I'm going to talk about mud today. Other people are going to talk about like maybe other things, but through tooling, better applied cryptography, better design patterns, better scaling, coordination and funding. We're trying to essentially bring this model to a place where there is not just one cool project out there that like satisfies this definition of autonomous words, but many. So yeah, we're just starting to advance the plot. And the agenda today is you're going to see demos, some talks, a panel and lighting talks. It would be a lunch break in the middle and yeah, enjoy folks. Al Various with OP craft, so I'm just going to hand it off to him. Cool. Thank you. All right, I'm going to show you OP craft, which is a little game that we've developed over the last couple of weeks using mud. Use using mud because we use mud. It was possible to implement this game in a couple of weeks. And the best demo is actually to just go to opcraft.mud.dev. If you have your laptop here and try it out yourself. This is a world that is procedurally generated and infinite and everything happens on chain. So if I go here and mine a block, then that is a transaction that is going to be sent on chain. And then here you see it got executed successfully. So now I have this item in my inventory. I can mine some more blocks and I can of course also place blocks. And then the last thing I can do is craft stuff, but I need to both hands. I'll just put this here. So in order to craft stuff, I first need the right ingredients, of course. So I'm going to go over here to the wool tree and mine a little wool block. And then I can go over here to the wool block. I just mined a little wool block and now I can open my inventory and place the wool block here, place a little flower here. There we go and create a dyed flower.  This has nothing to do with Minecraft, by the way. So the recipes are not the same as in Minecraft, in case you're wondering. But yeah, feel free to check it out. It's on allpcraft.map.dev and we're very excited to see what you come up with. All right. Hello, I am Kushaba. I work at Lattice, making video games on chain. I was previously working at Dark Forest. And this is a demo of an on-chain RTS we call Sky Strife, which will be launched soon. And this is a fully on-chain game. Each time you move a unit or attack something, it is a transaction. And as you can see, I'm battling my co-worker right now. It's not doing anything. There we go. OK, so this is built using mud. I feel like I've been shilling mud all week. And I just want to explain that, even if they fired me tomorrow and told me I could never work on mud ever again, that I would still do it and see them in court. Like, that's how good this game engine is. And coming from Dark Forest, Dark Forest is a monolithic code base. It's an amazing code base. Like, it's the first usage of ZK in a video game, but it's not extendable. It's very difficult to add new features. Every time you add like a new concept of an entity in that game, it requires changes throughout the entire stack. And that became frustrating for me as a game developer. Like, you want to be pushing content out to your users. You want it to be able to add content really, really easily by just making a solid foundation and then all the content adheres to that foundation. And I think that's the beauty of mud. This game has been in development for three months. The first month was basically making the game. All the on-chain functionality was done within the first month. And the last two months was just polish, like making a good client, making new units, like game design, play testing. So that to me is the power of this engine, like the power of ECS in general. It's like if you take these like limiting constraints of defining everything as a component and you make your game with that, you're kind of free yourself up to have a much more powerful development experience. And just to showcase like what this game is composed of, like we actually have a Unity-style sidebar here where I could say, oh, let me check out this rider here. Here are all the components that this rider is composed of. And like the most generic component you can think of is position, right? It has an X and Y position. So these two components here, position and movable, anything with these components can move, right? If I add a dragon, if I add a golem, if I add a villager, if I want them to move, I just add position and movable. I don't need my move system to know what a villager is. It doesn't care. All it cares about is that this is movable. It has a position and there's nothing in my way. And yeah, just to go through like kind of the complexity of this game, I've been amazed at how not limited I've been in my game design ideas. Like the only limiting factor right now is probably the fact that the blockchain does not have a tick function, right? Like if I wanted to make an NPC that walked around, yeah, that's pretty weird because someone is going to need to tick that NPC. But other than that, like I've been able to make all my game design dreams come true with this engine. And it looks like I'm getting attacked right now. Yeah, this little chain icon means the transaction is getting submitted when I'm attacking or moving. And this is basically it is fully real time, but we have this concept of a turn. So every 60 seconds, each unit regenerates its action points and those action points are used to do anything in the game. And that's kind of just a limiting factor for bots, right? Because since it's a non-chain game that's client agnostic, you could write a smart contract to play this game. If it was completely unlocked, you could make any transactions you wanted at any time, bots would dominate, right?  Yeah, so if you join the Discord, I'm running play tests pretty frequently. It's a pretty competitive game right now. If you've played Starcraft before, you'll feel at home. You should probably have a mouse. It gets pretty intense if you want to play. Yeah, this is what I've been doing, and I hope this inspires you all to make your own on-chain games. Thank you. Hey, everybody. My name is Tony, and I'm one of the founders of the Dark Forest DAO. We are a community of players who started playing Dark Forest last summer and got so inspired by playing this first fully on-chain MMO RTS game that we decided to start building on it ourselves. So what we're seeing right now is a live game of Dark Forest between Valorim and Jim Jim. In this game, you control planets and you're trying to send energy between them to achieve specific objectives. This game has had a long history of iteration and development, and as Kushaba mentioned, it is kind of a dinosaur and some of the underlying architecture. But even with that being said, it's still really, really fun to play. And so at DFDAO, one of the things we've done is added some new ways for players to interact with this Dark Forest universe. One of the first things we did was make a single-player game called The Grand Prix, which is a speedrun on top of the Dark Forest universe. So players try to get from point A to point B as fast as possible. But we missed some of the large-scale warfare that was super fun with the traditional MMO Dark Forest. And so for this conference, we put together a new game mode that we're calling the Race or the Quest for the Anti-Matter Cube, which is this new artifact that nerfs planets that it's on. So it makes it harder to move when you have this artifact in the game. So right now, we're seeing a battle for this cube in the center of the universe. And I'm not sure which player this is, but their goal is to try to send this cube to one of their extraction points, which is one of these planets right here called a space-time rip. So can we get a cube move from our players real quick? In case you didn't know, this game is also fully on chain. The smart contracts are running right now live on the Gnosis Optimism blockchain. We're seeing real-time transactions taking place. And the client is fully open-source, which has enabled people like us to build and modify further. So this is Dark Forest. Can we get a show of hands who here has played Dark Forest before? I'm just curious. Okay, so we got some fans in the audience. Awesome. Yeah, anything else? Okay, we're seeing the cube moving. Okay, cool. Well, that's a sign. Yeah, so this is the Dark Forest anti-matter cube edition. If you're missing some epic warfare, stay tuned, follow us on Twitter, and maybe we'll have something that is large-scale and involves the cube in the future. Now we're going to have Arben Gvn on stage for the talk. Arben Gvn worked on Moving Castle. It's a very interesting, if we can say so, project. Mixing identity, gaming, on-chain stuff. I met them in Berlin a while ago, thought they were very weird. And now they're here. So thanks for coming, folks, and on to you then. Thank you. Yeah, we need a computer. Thank you for introducing us. It's the third time we've been called weird during this conference, which I don't know. Yeah. Thank you. We need a computer. I think so. I think we like to insult each other while going. Beautiful. Okay. I am, since yesterday, I don't get many possibilities to brag about this. The world champion of Skystrife. I won the tournament yesterday. And I think this is a good moment for you all to appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Oh, yeah, a little clap in here. Oh, yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I don't know if I was the only one actually playing with that kind of intensity, but I loved it. Should we do an intro before? Yes. We can swap around the order of the slides a little bit. Okay. I am Arthur. Hi, everyone. I have a background in, among other things, the blockchain space. I also co-founded a space in Berlin, which is called Trust, which is an online community, a kind of physical workspace. We do a lot of lectures and events. And we've been talking to the autonomous worlds, Lattice and Xerox Park people for a bit, and it felt compelling enough to kind of come back into the space, I would say, or exploring the potentials of this. I am GVN. I have a background in cinema, script writing, storytelling. Over the past six years, I transitioned to like real-time rendering engine and video games. Yeah, Rasmus there, the man in the shirt. Wave Rasmus is also part of the team. Great. Okay. So what we're going to talk about is clearly this. This is about autonomous worlds and decentralized narratives. I don't have any notes. No, it's interesting, but we can roll with it. We already did this part. And so me and GVN started working together by writing this piece, which seems to have resonated with a bunch of people, which basically tried to start poking at the idea of what are the visual and representational metaphors that decentralized organizations can have, and how can they come together in game worlds to maybe have different types of interactions. That was the basic premise of the piece. And through that, we started kind of thinking about game modes, kind of ways for different organizations to come together using games. According to this simple logic where you have a world, you have governance input from two kind of communities, and you can structure games that way. And so what we built first was an instance of an Unreal Engine world, a game, that could plug into Twitch, so that two different Discord communities that we worked with could control the game through the Twitch chat. And we also additionally built an identity layer that would merge their Tweets, or they would connect their Twitch identity with their Discord identities and would give them persistent assets like skins, or just rewards, or any type of values throughout the streams. This is how it manifests. Yeah, the stream looked like this. This is the first one. In the first one, we kind of tried to simply see how can we have individual layer represented, and what kind of game modes could these habilitate. And so the first test we did was kind of like a Pachinko-like game in which you would, through the chat, you would control a character. The character would fall down this labyrinth. Eventually, if you were lucky enough, you would make it into a cave room where the skin that you have randomly generated would lock in, and you would have it into your persistent database, so you could play with it in every game. It's funny to see that although the very simple mechanics that we tried, they were already quite some lore coming up. People started spamming the chat, obviously, and they clocked the entrance, and then all at once they fell down. So yeah, it was kind of funny to see. It's also worth mentioning that we saw this initial infrastructure as a way to prototype kind of large scale game modes for communities that involved collective governance mechanisms. So we always saw it as like almost like interface experiments or on-chain logics, but this way of building it just allowed us to prototype very quickly. Right, so this was another game mode in which all the players would control an individual character. And of course when we had like around 250 players per session, and it's obviously a mess, when like 250 people try to right left right or like move a character randomly, it's very funny but also very complex. And obviously we needed some governance mechanics to like make this a bit more efficient, a bit more playable. Yeah, in this case it was just everyone had to chant at the same time, and the character would move, which is maybe the most brute way of doing it. So in the next stream we kind of like refined some of these mechanics. This was like a game mode in which the community would create their avatar representing them. So altogether there were like basically two scale of governance. One was like the individual scale, so every player could control the camera movements and the pieces that were swapping. So this was like a modular character that were building piece by piece. And the second one was like a more like a collective effort to lock the piece in place, for example. So they all have to type at the same time, fill up a bar, and if there was consensus the pieces would be locked in and they would move to the next part. This was the last stream we made, which was the most complex, because both community came together to play against each other. There was also like that character in the back. It's Arb with a motion. We're screaming in the background about the game state. With a motion capture rig. And yeah, and here we had like again like different governance model, but we divided into like turns, let's say. So the first one was like anarchy mode in which everything that you would write would trigger an action.  And there were like, we, it was fun. We also had another mode. It was more like a democracy mode in which they again, they had to like reach a threshold before the action would be triggered. And we tested like many of these modes in this, in this stream just to see like what were the affordances of each governance model. What was interesting with the whole process, I would say is that if you kind of make governance part of gameplay, the failures of governance create the most fun experiences, I would say. I think there's a very different design space than like what we may be used to in the blockchain space more generally, where it's very frustrating. So this is a realistic portrait of us. After four months of development, we made six games in total, produce more than 150 modular 3D assets. We had custom soundtrack. We had like, yeah, like motion capture rigs. We had collaborated with more of eight artists for the production of all these assets in a decentralized manner. And we also work with the community themselves to generate the lore and like how the world would look like, what kind of assets should be produced. And it was, I don't do it. It's extremely stressful. But streaming as a format, although like fun is also this combination of trying to build many mini games in a short time, while not being able to test them on any, not on the scale that you actually want to before, and then doing everything in a live stream format is a horrible idea. Don't do it. Yeah, you just have to embrace failure. I mean, one thing we learned is like how to turn failure into like lore. I think that's actually a very, like, I think it became like a core mechanic of the next things we were producing. But yeah, but we did learn some things. We did, there were some like, inherent limitations in these four months. Yeah, yeah, you can go. Okay. So the first one was that although we build like this persistent identity for the players, the worlds themselves would not be persistent between the streams. So it was basically like kill the world every time and like restart the unreal instance. And yeah, and yeah, another another problem was also exactly that although we collaborated with the communities to develop all the world building of these games, in the end, we were the sole owners and the sole gods of these worlds. They didn't really have access to restructure the rules of the games. And the third one was what we call group emergence. So we basically, we were designing tools for existing communities. But we were more interested in pivoting into like an environment from which the community could grow from within. So we decided the only way to go beyond this limitation was to produce another game. And we call it for now like a tragic comic NPC survival sim. And yeah, we decided that it should be on chain. You may ask why. So here's a good graph explaining it. So if we if we take these, these are like all work in progress. So don't take them too seriously, but take them seriously. So on the left side of this screen of the player agency graph, we have like worlds that are built from gods from within like a room. There is a next inaccessible to players. The world that is produced is basically a dead world. Once it's created, it's never going to change. Yeah, some examples are, for example, Disney movies or the Bible. The only way you can, the players, the only way players or viewers or users deal with this or engage with these worlds is through consumption or through fan fiction, if they really want to change something. The second it's, let's say like similar process, but thanks to like mostly like real time rendering engine, there is now the ability to change the world itself. So the gods are still producing the world, but the world this time is alive. It can be through the interaction with the players. It's it's it's changing. And a good example of these like World of Warcraft or Twitter, the players though still don't have access to the horror functioning of the world. They are still outside the play, the gods room. The third one is, I think Dark Forest and, I wouldn't say Dark Forest. I mean, yeah, Dark Forest probably. We don't know what to put there really, I would say. I think like you explain. No, I think you should explain. Always make me do the hard work. So the third one, let's say that this time the players are in the same room as the gods. So potentially they have access to the chain changing the world itself. The world itself has agency over itself. Yeah, so I said the itself 200 times. Is that it? I think that's good. There's more. Even you said you should say like it's perfect. Ah, yes, right. It's very perfect. No, I mean, this is like definitely the model that we are interested in. And it seems like it's solving a lot of solutions. So we, yeah, we thought it was definitely that's the way to go. Everything is going to be smooth. But of course, no, it's not smooth. We did, when we started developing the game, we did find some interesting questions we need to answer, especially when we produced, especially producing like an open and a narrative game. So for now, there's going to be more, I'm sure. But for now, we have three questions that we are trying to answer. Yeah, there are three problems that arise from the process of trying to build an autonomous world, especially under the assumption of like player agency, which is a paradox in itself somehow. And we've outlined three problems and kind of are proposing at least our solutions to it. Or poking at solutions to it. The first is the input complexity problem, which is that if Dark Forest and Xerox Monaco, in our opinion, are maybe the best kind of examples of what on-chain gaming can be, because they allow creative permissionless input to solve problems. We don't really make all players gods. We make Solidity Dev Scots, which I mean good for all of you that are Solidity Devs. I am not one. So this is like an interesting problem to poke around with. But what's nice is that there are games that actually have creative input through visual editors as an interesting game mode. And we think that there is a lot to learn from here. Victoria on the left and Opus Magnum on the right by Zachtronics are both systems that fairly imitate fairly complex like construction models through a visual editor. And we think that leaning into this kind of domain could allow lowering the barrier to entry or creative inputs to more casual gamers. That's the first problem. The second problem is the rule definition problem. If we want a world with full agency and we want players to define the rules of the world itself, how do you, who establishes the initial rules and why do people care? Like why do I care about a world which has no narrative? Why do I care about a world where I can change the rules arbitrarily? And there's a paradox if anyone can change the rules, no one can change, establish anything because everything is up in constant kind of flux. So we are designing this in the way that you start with a single agent that you can program similar to early artificial life games like Technosphere or as they're called ecosystem simulations. And then over time as you kind of scale up in like organizational size or in group size or in governance, you get more and more agency over the world. So the game itself is the governance over the world and by winning the game or going further in the game you get more and more governance over the world. That's a way for us to kind of structure a linear progression of agency, setting up the rule set initially and then allowing players to explore as they kind of experience the world, explore it and a bit more and more agency over time. This mirrors kind of the progressive decentralization thesis that was popular many years ago in the space but we think it's a good fit for potentially building on-chain games. We also think that in terms of narrative there will be the need for a strong establishing narrative that is connected through the rule set. I mean if we look at something like Twilight, it's very clear that if a narrative is evocative enough, you can't actually prevent people from participating in it. It's impossible. Even if we have a closed world like Twilight, people spend thousands of hours writing fan fiction about it and participate in that world because they feel so strongly about the narrative. So it's super important to have a foundational narrative but how do we make that narrative open? Well our approaches that we separate the narrative and the mechanisms of the world into interface layer and on-chain layer so that anyone later can build their own narrative window into the world while us being able to still kind of provide a strong narrative angle into the world in the in the first establishment of the game. Okay, this is a tough one and also the most exciting one to us. We're kind of presenting it as a problem but it's more of an interesting narrative kind of angle which is that if you have a world that anyone can change, how do you cope with the possibility of them ending the world at some point? And Ultima Online, the famous example of the ecosystem collapse where they established this great ecosystem, they went a lot of planning into it and then very quickly the place killed all the animals. And the game devs panicked, reverted and kind of set protections around the animals. What they should have done is just said, yeah they killed all the animals, now this is a world without animals. You accept the kind of horrors that the players do to the world as a lore and you base your narrative around it. And there are games that do this really well. Both Dwarf Fortress and Rimworld really lean into this kind of logic. Dwarf Fortress even frames itself as a narrative generator where the death of a colony is not a fail state but a tragic narrative or something like that because I don't have the notes. Yeah, so we are going to really embrace this that the narrative comes from the player actions themselves. Right, and as a quick note since we used the World Tree Body problem which we absolutely did not copy from the famous sci-fi book, it's interesting in that book there's, you know, scientists are playing a game and like where they have to solve this very complex problem to keep the game to keep the world of the game alive and they fuck up and every time the world is like civilization number X died after these and these and these players managed to invent these and that and I think that's a really nice approach like this idea that the world is going to end and that is going to build the next iteration of it. Okay, so back to the game. So back to the game. So that's again like our definition but what does it practically mean? Well, we kind of already explain it a bit but what we imagine this game to be is basically that you will control an NPC, maybe you can turn the slide. Yeah, you will start with an NPC that you will be able to program and then like you can program a lot of like some actions that this NPC is going to do in the world and then you're going to throw the NPC in the world and see what happens to it and obviously there are many, many things that can go wrong. So the beginning of the game is basically going to be about survival. It's on the individual level. You control one NPC and you will try to survive in this world. There's resources you can farm and you know stay alive. It's some sort of rust like environment and then as you proceed with the game you will be able to create more and more complex operations that you can do and more and more complex social structures and this will allow you to unlock different type of gameplays and eventually if you spend enough time in the game or if you're good enough at the game you will be able to reach the world scale and potentially basically take over the role of game developer. Yeah, I mean at this point this is a very ambitious project. We're aware of that so we're going to start in the first part down here. Our first prototype is down here and we're going to see and fail probably a bit and then learn from that and then build out in this direction but we think that this arc and this logic is very promising in kind of thinking about what on-chain games can be as a kind of casual experience that has the forms be the medium for how you get agency over the world itself and our first wireframe this is a horrible sketch but it's not horrible because Rasmus Madean is great but he told us to absolutely not show it and that is why he's on the screen. I mean but we felt like it would be good to show something that kind of points towards what an early prototype could look like and here you basically have an NPC, you have a certain amount of resources and you can basically sequence a behavior by a drag and dropping operation from the right side if you want to write your own operations that interact with the resource logic of the world you can do that. We also want to have something similar to the dark force plugin logic that then custom operations kind of repopulate in the front end of other players and on the right side you kind of every time you come back there is a log there is a narrative that has been generated when your character is interacted your NPC has interacted with the world independently and that might be you know it has died because it didn't find food or it has you know yeah whatever it is is that it basically yeah yeah so we end up where we started we hope this has been a somewhat interesting exploration of some of the tensions of agency within the idea of autonomous worlds kind of our hoaking at some of the solutions that we find have potential for this and our goal is to have a prototype by December January yeah that you all can fail in thank you. Round two of the AW self-led sessions if you were here with us in the morning thanks for coming back to the afternoon if you're just joining us welcome we're going to kick it off with our panel discussion i'm really quickly going to introduce our two moderators our co-moderators we have a useh and zero x hank they are going to give a quick little opening remarks introduce you to our panel and then we're going to get started so let's give a round of applause for our co-hosts today's panel is called frontiers of autonomous worlds now the frontier of autonomous worlds maybe three years ago they didn't really exist until dark forest happened and it was largely the same for a couple of years until now when there's been a huge explosion in what we can do with these technologies and so we want to ask a lot of questions about what is coming forward and how can we predict what's coming next yeah the frontier is looking bright and i think we're all excited to see what's coming but it's also somewhat unknown a lot of this technology is really nascent and it's unclear what's going to look like in even two or three years let alone five or ten so we really want to push you guys today uncover your long-term visions as well as what's just been going on recently so why don't we start by introducing everybody let's start with gub sheep and then work our way down hey folks i'm gub sheep i work with zero x park i spent a lot of time from 2019 to 2021 building out a game called dark forest with a handful of friends some of whom are at dev con as well and these days i mostly think about applied zk r and d with zero x park groups hello i'm kevin part of the founding team of optimism building the optimism collective nowadays i spend most of my time thinking about how to build the next version of optimism main net which is called bedrock and then how we extend that to the op stack to empower autonomous worlds hello everyone i'm alvarios and together with justin i started lattice 18 months ago approximately we started building a specific on-chain game at first but then ran into a bunch of very general like very general problems and so we decided to build a key missing piece of infrastructure a game engine for autonomous worlds at the beginning of this year approximately and that was my main focus since then hey my name is justin approximately like two years ago i ended up in mexico with gub sheep working on dark forest and then from that we kind of like started zero x park together with another friend i was working on a chain game with this gentleman it was really hard we gave up we started again we gave up again and then we were like okay we have to solve some like fundamental problems first so we we hit in the cave for a long time we built a team we wrote essays we wrote mud and now we're out of our cave with cool stuff awesome so maybe to start understanding what the frontier is it would be good to go all the way back to the beginning to 2019 when the frontier was dark forest and i guess what lessons can we learn from that era that could possibly be used now to understand what's going on maybe kick things off i can kick things off and i'm actually curious to toss it over to folks because i think that honestly like the three of you on stage right now have been thinking much more deeply about this back in 2019 and i mentioned this a little bit in a talk i gave earlier this week i think that the idea of like a fully on-chain game that was more than like an nft collectible game didn't necessarily seem like it was like technologically feasible or like worth exploring and i think the takeaway from this probably shouldn't i mean like there's one take which was like oh you know like in retrospect like this makes sense as an area of exploration and we should pursue it but i think that the like slightly more interesting thing to think about is like what kinds of things three years out from now like let's say it's 2025 and we're having this panel and we're like asking about like mud in 2022 what things can we try today that seem like unreasonable or like purely just like intellectual explorations that we don't know where they're gonna go we don't know if they're gonna be feasible i think just like keeping them within the spirit of like exploration and play is is really important maybe on like a you know more concrete note one of the things that has been one of the biggest takeaways for me in the last couple of years is this idea of like emergence i guess like this idea of like you build the substrate for then the community to build itself and i'm actually curious to hear about like i mean you know i'm sure that there's a lot of really interesting stuff going on optimism that's like unpredictable and even in the first couple weeks of mud being live i'm i'm very curious to hear i mean i feel like from 2020 2021 like i remember we spent a lot of time talking about like can dark forest run on an optimistic will up and at the time it was just too expensive like we kept like brainstorming we're like oh can we make it work other ways that we can like like oh we'd have to like spin up a brand new chain and we were still like we're still working on optimism main net and getting it to a point where like it was production ready and i feel like we're finally at a stage now where the way we've constructed optimism main net can be easily repurposed to spin up not just like one game chain for dark forest but just like hundreds or thousands of chains uh very very easily so i'm excited that like i feel like we're finally at a place where like can we run dark forest on a roll up and the answer is going to be yes very very very soon hi um yeah i mean when like i mean new folks had had were working had been working on dark forest for two years when we started doing stuff was also very hard i think the main thing that people are missing is not necessarily the tools and the technology but the mental models um i think that when you kind of like so again you come from defi like hyper optimization um surfaces for auditability and then try to build something like dark forest well what you do is like you make one step forward but you still kind of like keep the infrastructure you have seen before so like the dark forest contracts look like defi contracts the difference is that they're not gas efficient and not audited and like way more crazy um and like fast forward to know i think that from the from the perspective of like the ethereum protocol and and solidly not much changed but something like mud where are we okay sat down and decided to give up all constraints and like think about another architecture that's actually one of the thing that like pushes the envelope forward and it's interesting how it's all of those different dimensions and like you need to get all of your cards right in order to be able to like create a product that is like a step function advancement um compared to the things before so i think that right now what we're seeing is better toolings better mental models and better scaling solutions will probably like bring us to like kind of like a different era so continuing on just thinking about what has already come what are the lessons that we could learn from things like dark forest some of the really new uh builds on top of mud like skystripe the new game and op craft which is kind of like the tech demo game are there any properties of those uh worlds that we could see carrying forward as these worlds get more complicated and get more interesting and more alive um so i think that one thing that so one thing i'd like to say is that like ethereum mainnet is the best mmo right now but it only caters to like a very specific type of people and what we realize is that i mean what everybody's realizing is you can have a very simple set of rules plus like some observability into the system and autonomy and then you get crazy emergent behaviors to happen like things like mev is it's an emergent property of like a public block market and so yeah like i'm curious what you think goop she but from dark forest the thing that was interesting is like focusing on making a game with like the simplest possible like layer of rules and then leaving obvious space for the community to build things and like like farming the emergence from there i guess yeah actually i can talk a little bit about some of the like design decisions that went into the like initial versions of dark forest i still have all these like old spreadsheets with like you know a bunch of uh formulas that eventually made their way into the dark forest smart contracts um i think that uh various and justin have been talking a lot about this idea of digital physics and though we didn't really have like a great like term for this at the time i think that actually captures very well like the intuition behind what we felt might make for a viable on-chain game because the chain is such an adversarial environment you know like justin said ethereum is this massive mmo where pretty much like anything goes it's like you know anarchy out there um what we the way that we tried to design dark forest from the beginning was well there was a few principles for example one was scale invariance uh which is kind of another way of saying like civil resistance so because you have uh like you because you have this world where you can't like we don't want to like kyc or something every player coming on to dark forest it should be the case that like you know having three accounts playing dark forest should not give you more of an advantage than having one account that's playing at three x the scale so if you've played dark forest you'll notice that like you know there's this continual geometric progression where you start off at like a level zero planet and then every planet level up on the hierarchy gets four times more rare but also like approximately four times more like strong or powerful um and this is something then that like gives the game almost this like sense of physics around like what is the maximum like rate of resource harvesting that you can get like what is the maximum speed of light was also another question here that we tried to tune around like basically the maximum speed of movement in the game is another thing that we tried to tune around the relative planet sizings uh and like what are the scales that different players are going to be playing at so i think thinking about things from like this really like grounded like first principles physics level which is kind of a you know like argue i know that like some folks in in game in like traditional game design might like want to you know really push back against that but at least for getting something on the board that was that was i think a good choice for us yeah because usually you have a player promise you're like i want the players to feel this way and then you reverse engineer the rules from the player promise and here it's more like hey here's a world that is kind of okay like it self-regulates and we don't promise you anything and and i think i remember there is a someone who texted me on discord back when one of the dark press run was running saying that that was the coolest thing they had ever done on the internet because most everything was emergent essentially yeah for sure yeah and i mean that's kind of also the one of the base principles we put into op craft where it's if in case you haven't seen it yet it's like an on-chain voxel game that kind of looks like minecraft but it's not really minecraft and that's exactly the thing you have to keep in mind like if you think of this as minecraft then it's just a shitty minecraft because it doesn't have the same features it doesn't have like the same basically people can just send transactions directly and there's some things that are not enforced in the physics but instead we wanted to make the physics very simple such that other things can be built on top of that like speaking of this emergent behavior and yeah that's we just launched that basically soft launched it on wednesday and we're very curious to see what people actually come up with yeah i'm really also curious to see what people come up with one thing i'm wondering about is this digital physics idea is so cool and you and what is stopping people right now from experimenting and building on top of these primitives yeah i mean i think a big thing up till now has really just been the tooling um and this is where i think like you know mud and the particular infrastructure that kevin mentioned for being able to like launch game specific plasma chains is so important every single feature that we added to dark forest was really like we were fighting an uphill battle like we would have to thread like i mean you know andi spent a lot of the last like you know like first six months of this year it was just like it would take a month to add in this feature of like spaceships which should be this really simple thing if you're working with like unity or unreal engine here you've got to go through you've got to like wire this through like the contracts the zk snarks like the interface to the client the various different like open source packages um there was no game engine and so every single feature was was just this like ad hoc thing that you were you know writing like over like five thousand lines of code to like introduce like a new item into the game i think it's just you know one of these barriers is just developer experience yeah i mean that's exactly what we went through when we started working on an on-chain game beginning of last year and we basically spent like five months or something building the core physics and then we play tested for the first couple of times and we realized it's actually not that fun and so we wanted to add some content but then adding content would have meant refactoring the entire code base and like editing like hundreds of files to just add one new type of entity and that's exactly why and like with which in mind we we built mud and now with mud and he was able to build the first version of skystripe in like two weeks and was able to play test then and then continuously iterate over it to make it much more fun yeah i think like you know just add on to that like one of the crazy things when i look at the difference between something like skystripe and dark forest is the level of um complexity and the amount of content dark forest essentially has like five types of entities in it total there's like planets there's i guess like two types of resources energy and silver and then there's spacious i guess there might be four four types of entities really in dark forest and skystripe there's like you know over a dozen units like a bunch of different kinds of buildings like multiple dozen like kinds of relations or interactions that you can have between these things cool um i kind of want to start pushing you guys a little bit obviously we call mud autonomous worlds game engine and autonomy is a huge part of it kind of on the other end of the spectrum we have this company called meta which is kind of building like uber centralized worlds and so i'm curious and i'm sure other people out there are curious as well really why is autonomy so important for these worlds what does it bring that zuckerberg will never bring to the table yeah so one way to think about this is um there's this book called emissaries guide to worlding and it kind of like looks at okay so if you want to build a world that is alive and they define aliveness as the inverse of the time that the creator needs to put into the world to keep making it cool right like as an example ethere actually bitcoin is maximally alive because um satoshi is not contributing anymore ethereum is not maximally alive yet we still have like some of the creators that have a lot of power like still pushing for stuff and one thing that is interesting with autonomy is that you are not actually like a total different kind of relationship with the thing than with something that is not autonomous um so maybe one way to think about it is if a world is autonomous essentially it like it's going to bring essentially different kind of affordances and people are going to relate with them in different ways um so to kind of like compare it with meta basically if you want to build autonomous system that lasts for a long time you need to essentially give up the mask of director you can't say hey i have i know what is best for this world therefore i will bring the thing that it needs to remain interesting because that is essentially like shutting down pluralism you have a single group of people that think they know what's best and then you end up with like marvel movies and you end up with like all of those like things that are like maximally dead basically in terms of like from that perspective um on the other side if you build a system that one has claims to autonomy and two has rules in such a way that like there is no difference between the people that add the content and the people that experience the world like this reality is a great example i do not need to get a certificate from god to build a house i just build my house and nobody needs to tell me hey you can do that um but at the same time the fact that we all have to comply to the same kind of like lower level rules means that we can live together um i think that one thing that is really crazy with all of those like meta versus like roblox blah blah blah where like people can create different experiences is that they're extremely lonely they feel like theme parks you move from one place to another and essentially they're dead right so i think that yeah that that's how how it could come but also it's a bit like a mystical answer so maybe not the best but i almost curious what other people think and i think given you also think about autonomy a lot right from the perspective of building those things that need to be like live on their own for sure yeah i feel like autonomy is actually really important like also layer down in terms of like building the actual chains in the infrastructure so i think like a couple years ago when cup sheep and i were talking about like can we run a dark forest chain it was like well we'd probably have to spin up a new chain with different parameters it probably have to like maybe we'd have to swap out the data availability layer and we were such a small team at the time it's like oh my god we need to hire like two more dev ops people we're gonna need to like have a brand new product like this is gonna be so much effort um but i think the big realization we had is like right now a lot of a lot of blockchain companies are like currently they're trying to like build the the the infrastructure for like app chains for you know app specific chains but you have to go to them and like ask them to go spin it up for you like you have to be like hey like x or y company can you please spin up a chain with these parameters for me and then you probably have to pay them a bunch of money and like you also don't have autonomy over like the infrastructure that you're building on top of i think one of the big realizations i think lattice really opened us up to was like without us even like talking to you guys you guys already had like forked bedrock and we're running your own chains and like because we have an MIT license because we designed it in this modular way where it's like maximally simple you guys were already like autonomously taking this infrastructure and spinning it up for your use case and yeah despite like like you guys spun up a test day before we had a test that running for bedrock like i don't know how you did it you guys are insane um but yeah i think what we've realized is like if we design the the the software stack for these chains in a way that is maximally modular and maximally simple that like any chain could just go and like any any app can go and like take this infra and and spin it up in their own way have full autonomy decide what their gas limit is decide what their data availability layer is decide what their proof is you know decide what their vm is um and i feel like that unlocks just like that will unlock just this i don't know cambrian explosion of just like apps that cannot exist on chains that you know that that currently exist and like it removes the barrier of entry from like needing to go create a partnership with one of these blockchain companies to spin up a chain for you and like you can just go you can just like go do it yourself you know yeah um i want to also give maybe another angle on why i think autonomy is important uh just from like some empirical observations that we saw with like the dark forest community one cool thing that autonomy does is that uh like when you see an autonomous system uh that autonomy is almost a credible claim to the system's longevity so like what does that mean well concretely you know dark forest would run in these like super ad hoc rounds that would be like you know every couple of months we've just like dropped like a week long dark forest round and we'd have these like fantastic periods and bursts of activity like during the week of the round and like the week right after but then you know afterwards there wasn't really any like credible commitment that was made by like the core dev team or the system that this world would continue running and being alive and being interesting and so we had a bunch of these players who were kind of like stuck in this weird middle zone where they're like oh i'm like interested to build more stuff on this but i'm just like not sure if it's worth it because i have no idea if the next round is going to be like six months out a year out if it's even going to be like the same thing when or if dark forest will even continue at all whereas when i look at like you know the third party developer environments of games like eve online or runescape which are also not entirely autonomous worlds but have a sufficient amount of like player ground up bottom up activity you sort of know like runescape is going to be around in 2.5 years so you like spending a weekend or like committing the next three months of weekends that you have to committing to like the runelight open source client is like a worthwhile endeavor for you because it actually is being woven into this like fabric that's going to continue onwards yeah and just one more one more thought to add is basically if you want to have a world that's interesting enough for people to believe in then it's of course much more like much much easier to create that if there's many people contributing to it right like if there's only facebook building this like metaverse then sounds kind of boring and it's the way i think about it is like the um like the parallel between um a plant economy and a free market when a plant economy somebody controls everything and usually it's not the best outcome whereas in a free market everybody can contribute to it and then the outcome is usually much better and much more interesting so while the autonomous worlds are very interesting it seems that current infrastructure like the l1 mainnet is not really possible to run these autonomous worlds on and so if we really want to unlock like the infrastructure layer that can support these autonomous worlds like what are the changes that need to be made and what are the technologies that we can look forward to for say a hundred thousand person mmo or even bigger yeah um i think like the first step is like making it incredibly easy to spin up your own chain right and i think like we definitely vastly underestimate like what it means to spin up a chain like there's so many components external to the chain itself that people now just assume is part of a chain like a chain is not actually live until you have a good block explorer like you can't actually like like if you give someone an rpc endpoint for like a node it's like oh yeah here's a chain like nobody's going to know what to do with it and people are like oh well where's the explorer like that's this is a very fundamental piece of like what makes a chain a chain today i think there's all sorts of all sorts of other pieces of infrastructure like that like having having an amm having like nosa safe like i think we would start to expect that like any autonomous world would you know it would it would be really helpful for the builders in that world to know that they have these basic primitives that they're used to in the aetherium l1 mmo um and i so i think like the vision with the op stack and like we're not there yet is like literally just being able to instantly spin up a chain that has all these components right you spin up a chain it automatically has a hosted block explorer it has a hosted bridge where you can like bridge tokens and nft is in and out it has an amm already launched with the front end it has you know nosa safe and maybe even like tenderly maybe even it's it comes with like you know a few extra info providers like infura or alchemy yeah exactly um so i feel like that's what we need to be able to enable like thousands of chains and like the scale that you guys need for like these autonomous worlds will require like thousands of chains you know yeah so that's step one step please you have to go even more degen and basically i think that right now kind of like the assumption is hey we need like atomic composability between everything like every contract should be able to call another contract like within the same synchronous call but i think that kind of like that assumption breaks down if you think about embodiment like in this universe i cannot actually like impact alpha century right now i have to wait a couple minutes even if like travel at the speed of light so if you bring embodiment in some form of like um essentially like i mean it's like a symmetry it's like you have like a maximum speed limit you can start charting thing geographically and i carl give a talk about this about the super chain if you if you have a shared set of sequencer is then you just have a single block delay when you pass from one to another and so there this is great talk from like the geth team lead about the limit of physics and geth like you can't go faster than a billion gas per second for too long because otherwise you're literally gonna hit the limits of computers because of the data structures what you can do is you can have many of these running in parallel and true you break composability between them but if you make everything embodied it doesn't actually matter so the other kind of like interesting side effects from this is markets are going to become extremely efficient because there is no such thing as a global market and i think that that's going to be quite fun and interesting it's going to level up the mev game uh like yeah it's going to be insane like the mev the mev parts of the future are going to be the industrialists of autonomous wars they're going to be trains and stuff like that just like move resources fast and and do arbitrage so i think it's kind of interesting if you go away from the use cases of like extremely efficient defy markets and like really composable like nft primitives everything goes right it's this it's kind of like this new scene that unlocks a design space and ideas that people left on the floor and like didn't bother picking them up anymore because they didn't cater to like the existing market so i'm pretty excited to just be able to do like stuff that wasn't done before because nobody needed it so one note on the composability is that so far we've only talked about games existing in their individual silos but it seems that if everything's built on a shared infrastructure then there might be interoperability between these games i'm curious what you guys think that looks like in the future and how the things that you're building might enable that so this is again one of the like key principles that we've put into mud is like interoperability between all the different games if if you built mud and i'm later after like later today i'm going to give a talk about mud in case you're not familiar with it but in just a few sentences there's components in their systems that are registered on a central world and there can be multiple games actually on the same world or multiple layers of augmented reality basically on the same world and then the clients decide which components and which systems they want to interact with and that's kind of already one like level of interoperability like different games within the same game right but then at the same time different worlds are also interoperable with each other because they all use the same like way of storing the data so the way you query your own world is exactly the way the same way you could query any other world yeah and basically you can read from anything and you can only write to the things that you have access to and yeah what people will come up with it i don't know we're just here to build the infrastructure and to enable people but yeah i'm very curious one super quick note for this so i think that like interoperability like the naive way of thinking about it makes no sense like what does it mean to bring a Lamborghini in world of warcraft like that's just like super dumb like the only thing that actually can go like from one place to another context-free is identity money and reputation because those things are actually like truly general enough like from our like kind of like subjective experience that we can bring them to other places um yeah as alvarez said i think like interoperability within the same world is going to be quite important the same way like in this world like you can drive and you play tennis and those are like completely different rules and like kind of like shared hallucination we have on top of the world and that works but like let's say we have the multiverse and like i bring my limbo to like a place that has like four dimensions like what does that even mean so i think that this thesis of interoperability between like different games actually it's like a bit silly to me but things within the same world where like some core team brings very low level rules that don't even include things like capitalism and competition and stuff like that and you have other people that brings that i think that's the thing that i'm actually really excited about and that's where we that's what we're already seeing with your main net right we have interoperability between the things that have the same kind of like platonic class you know like money or like identity or stuff like that if you go beyond that it's just very silly in my opinion oh i mean you know i think that's a great point and it makes me think about like um you know for example the the phrase or like the term nft is used to refer to like a bunch of different classes of things um one thing that it is used to refer to like specifically is you know digital art ownership rights for whatever definition of ownership you might care about another might be like you know a representation of a position on some you know decentralized exchange or marketplace or anything else and like you end up with like a lot of problems when you like try to like mix these classes and you have to be like very intentional and deliberate about like exactly like what terminology and what mental model you're building around like what is an you know an nft yeah i mean ultimately it's just a claim to ownership right and ownership doesn't interpret that well yeah so jesse you just said that there are only really a few things that need to be interoperable um and i kind of want to ask about that on the canonical side as well how much do we really need to rely on a blockchain for let's say in dark forest every time you do anything it goes straight on to the main net of that blockchain so and i think we've seen with op crafts that you can actually maybe start to move a little bit further away from blockchain to other decentralized technologies in order to get um functionality that isn't necessarily intrinsic to the like who wins the game so how much can we stray from blockchain in order to kind of unlock some of these interesting features um versus how much do we really need to be always canonical and immutable yeah before letting my friends answer just little context in op craft so people kind of understand the question in op craft um breaking a block dropping up crafting something inventories all of those are verified on the evm but one thing that the chain is not aware of is where you are so this was like a we did this on purpose we had a version of op craft where position was on chain and like you could do things only in the trunk around you you had to provide like some form of like a star proof that you were moving according to right way anyway the reason we didn't do this is because it was like a social experiment and so what what what x-hanks is referring to is that um when you play op craft you can see how the players go around and run around but that is actually not going through the chain it's going through a peer-to-peer layer um so yeah we have like those kind of like two different kind of hardness in like your stark term um and yeah i mean i'm sure you too thought about this so i mean even kevin today the thing that is crazy is like if you look at like open sea there is a lot of things that is actually just like derived state from what is actually on chain and like the kind of like the design principle of all of those apps is like put the least amount of things on chain possible which breaks composability but like like brings scaling so as a matter of smart contracts conned by nfts and open sea um and so you always have this kind of like trade-off like when can humans participate when can like autonomous agents participate yeah i mean um so to put it simply a blockchain is basically just a consensus engine right so if you want to if it's important that um one transaction is like if the order of the transactions for example is important or if the physics are somehow enforced in the in the game rules um then of course it would have to be on a blockchain and even if we didn't have blockchain and we wanted to build something to enable that kind of stuff then probably we would end up at a blockchain in the end um and yeah for for pcraft some of the things that just make it nicer for people like you see where other people are you see them moving around you see where they look and what block they have in the hand stuff like that it's it's not relevant for the game or like for the physics and that's why we decided to not put it on a chain but rather on a like signed message relayer oh yeah actually so we had a really early experiment with this in dark force as well where like if you owned a planet um you could like put a little like emoji flag on top of it uh and that was not something that was stored on chain it was actually like our i mean we could have put it on chain it actually might have been slightly simpler too um but we ended up we designed a pathway for that to end up being stored on a web server the same web server that also stores the mapping between like addresses and twitter handles uh and the reason there was we wanted to start opening up the pathway to have like these auxiliary gameplay elements uh that did not like even if people were adversarily uh oriented towards those gameplay elements the underlying game mechanics themselves would still function and the idea of you know who is like winning the game or who has x amount of resources that stuff is really important to come to consensus on but if for example like the you know twitter address mapping goes down or like the emoji you know planet mapping goes down like that's not a huge deal but it actually does add another layer of of interestingness to the game because people can use those as communication channels yeah actually one one more thought to add on that um is also in our pcraft we have the like a linking between the address and twitter and now we wanted to also show that in the game but we didn't have it on chain yet and then we thought about how to do it and we could have written like custom like integration with the server that's already storing the like um twitter username to address mapping but it turned out that it was actually easier and much more straightforward to put it on chain and put it in mud and then we could use the like infrastructure that was already there to just like use it yeah in the client with like it was just so much easier that we ended up doing it anyway even though it's not relevant for the physics it is a centralized oracle that just say like this is that um I also think we might want to we might have to to add nuance to the term like on chain right like as it becomes easier to spin up like all these different chains like you can have an incredibly dgen chain that just like hosts data in an aws server and like has a thousand x ethereum throughput and you can also have like a chain that's as secure as optimism mainnet um and so like on chain can mean very different things so maybe like player position is less critical and goes in one of these you know hyper dgen chains and like sure maybe like you lose some data along the way or it's really hard to run a node that like actually um you know calculates everyone's everyone's position but like I feel like you can have like secure on chain you know gameplay transactions like insecure on chain transactions and like with this super chain I feel like there will be this this this design space of like okay like maybe this user travels to this planet and now they're in this dgen chain and like they can send a crazy amount of transactions and it's super insecure but they they opt into it and they know they're in the wild west here but then they like fly back to this other chain where now they're they're in a safe place where they hold all their money and like you know this is this is the secure the secure planet you know still better than meta server even if it's like super dgen but yeah that's a good point I have one more thing to add on this um this is another example actually of a thing that I know like folks thinking about blockchain infrastructure uh have talked about a lot previously which are even if you don't have a consensus engine there's actually still a fair amount of security that you have through the usage like through the correct usage of cryptographic primitives so for example like one thing that uh you know despite the fact that um the dark forest admin server stores and provides sort of as as an optional service just like twitter to address mapping um we still like attach to all of those uh key value pairs a signature from the ethereum account that this is indeed their twitter handle and a verified tweet that tweets out that signature so that you know linking can go both ways and we can't forge that like we can't convince you that this address is connected to this twitter account if they haven't done that signature so there's still a cryptographic guarantee there I think the thing that um you know blockchains really provide is is data availability at the end of the day and that's you know sort of what we've realized over the last couple of years so again like you need to distinguish between all these different notions of security there's like you know questions about like correctness and forgeability there's also questions around like data availability and censorship and these are all like different dimensions and so it's not just a one-dimensional trade-off curve either it's it's multi-dimensional that is interesting to think about like as new cryptographic primitives emerge new on-chain gaming or autonomous world ideas also emerge in a similar way as new infrastructure emerges our new chain primitives emerge we'll see new things that are able to happen so I'm curious like over the next five or ten years what are like certain new ideas or primitives that you're excited to see happen and how might those change how autonomous worlds operate yeah I can start on this one so um me and Justin did a little like lightning talk kind of thing in the hacker basement a couple of days ago where we speculated about um how some new primitives might enable new mechanics uh I'm personally pretty interested in how like uh primitives like fully homomorphic encryption or multi-party computation or witness encryption these things that are like you know even stronger cryptographic primitives than what we have today that are still sort of at the academic level um but hopefully going to production lies over time what that might unlock so to give an example um a lot of folks here might be familiar with this idea that zk enables you to now put hidden states into games and this is a powerful primitive because previously you might not have been able to play to build like a card game where people's cards were private on chain but now with zk you can um one thing that you still can't do though in terms of incomplete information games is you can't have games where there's interactions between mutually distrusting parties who are trying to compute jointly over like mutually private state okay so what does that mean like maybe you know I have an attack coming from like a secret unit on my side and I'm attacking you know Kevin who has like a secret defender and we want to figure out what's the overall like net impact of this attack on Kevin's health well we can't do that right now because I want to keep my attacking forces private Kevin wants to keep his like defending like special defense you know stats or power or whatever private um so that's still something that's not possible with zk but with mpc it might it might become possible I'm hyped about a million tps um by dropping a bunch of stuff and cutting corners and like going zoom zoom I think it's going to be really interesting one thing I wanted to add to the last question one 10 seconds is that even a centralized evm server is extremely interesting because the evm is a computer that is made for like atomic composability and also observability into the system itself and like even if you were to build world of forcraft today on a centralized evm that would be like pretty fucking sick um so this is where I like to go back to Kevin's point like even if maybe we should say on evm off evm it's an on chain off chain but I mean this spectrum is going to be milked in so many directions because there's just a lot of stuff to do there I guess a real real quick last note is like I feel like we live in a world now where like ERC 20 tokens are obviously a very established primitive in blockchains and I feel like there's all sorts of surrounding infrastructure around them and I want to live in a world where like a blockchain itself is that same type of primitive so one thing I was thinking on the way over here is like just like how in uniswap there's like a token list and like that that defines like what are the the list of like safe tokens that you want to trade like and you can have different levels of token lists that like coin gecko has a token list that has like maybe more risky tokens than the uniswap token list you can have like a chain list and it's like these are the chains that you're safe you feel safe interacting with and like maybe you can have like a more a more risky a more like a more risk tolerant chain list where like okay I'm cool I'm cool going to a place where like data availability is off chain like that could be you know that could be something that you parameterize and I think like I'm excited for like there to be all this surrounding infrastructure that exists currently for ERC 20s as primitive so like you know maybe the coin gecko maybe there's like a coin gecko for chains that lists you know what's their security what's their current gas usage per second you know I'm excited for for that future yeah can I actually pose a question here as well to the the rest of the panelists because I feel like we've been throwing around a lot of terms but some of them have been like imprecisely defined at least where this this conversation has been going so we're talking about this world of like a lot of different chains but as people have noted chains means a lot of different things for example I think a thing that y'all are not meaning when you say this world with a bunch of different chains many of which have different security guarantees is like a world where we're like you know bridging between like Solana and Avax and like you know the multi-chain future is one where like you know you take your soul and you go on to like EOS and then you like bridge your NFT to Binance like that that's like not really like the vibe that I get here so can you distinguish between these two notions of what multi-chain here means yeah I guess a quick note on here is like you should totally go if you have not watched Carl's talk or Kelvin's talks on like the super chain or the OP stack that'll go into way more detail but I think the the vision here is that you could have many chains that are all spun up using the same the same set of API's like the same set of modules so they they might use different modules they might use a different proof system or they might use a different data availability layer but they all use the same API's and if they're all built using the same shared language the same stack you can easily do things like have them share a sequencer set which would allow you to do things like if the sequencer set is honest that you can have atomic composability between these chains so rather than living in this world where like you have many different chains that are designed in their own different monolithic way you can have all these different chains that are all designed in the same modular way and can all interoperate you know in ways where like as an end user maybe I don't know what chain I'm on all the time maybe I just know that I'm on chains that are in the list of chains that I've like agreed you know I know that all the chains I interact with have data availability on Ethereum or something and like as an end user it feels like a single chain that I'm interacting with but under the hood there's actually many different chains you might actually just like if you're running a node you're just running a node for one of those chains you know yeah I guess the main difference between that and something like even like cosmos that has like IBC and instant finality is that cosmos has different validator sets depending on the different chains so you can have like lower security zones higher security zones I think the thing that is really interesting is like even if we have roll-ups with like different data availability or different different proof layers as long as they all can like ultimately sell out down in ethereum mainnet you have this amazing thing where like if if if something reorgs everything reorgs at least like if the layer one reorgs everything reorgs and you ultimately use ethereum mainnet as like a global clock and that I think is going to unlock way more than just like this super janky thing we're right now or yeah we can move money across but the bridge gets under collateralized and stuff like that like that is going to be needed if you want to send rich messages across so yeah roll-ups for the win all right I think we're running out of time I'm gonna I'm gonna throw one more question out there so it's really early it's 2022 and I want to look forward far into the future into the world where autonomous worlds are just a part of our daily life and everybody's interacting on autonomous worlds and I guess what is the the ultimate vision and the ultimate promise that autonomous worlds can bring to people it's a scary question I don't want to go first sure so personally the way I think about it also when I think about like the metaverse is not that stuff that's currently happening in the real world would move there but rather that it's like just a very interesting thing to experience just like we like we experience regular games right now or like movies or other things like other kinds of worlds that we currently experience that's autonomous worlds on steroids basically um so that's the way I think about it so in in what was the question like what's the promise that autonomous world brings to people like what value will it create for all of us I think it's just gonna be more fun yeah no no but it's true I actually think like playfulness is super important here like society is inherently playful and I think that's something like as we go towards like our algorithmic dopamine future right now where like things are becoming more and more boring and like scary I think that bringing some like autonomous chaos to the internet is going to be quite interesting and I think I think that's crazy with crypto is that because we have this much dollars at stakes it automatically creates like crazy emergent properties like meh would not exist if like the tv lo theorem was like a thousand dollars like nobody would care um and so I think that if you go towards playfulness and emergence and just interesting new affordances on the internet like you shouldn't put your social life on the internet you should like unlock things you didn't have before right um people play even line because they can control like galactic corporations not because they want to like I don't know be a male man so um I mean there are games where you can be a male man to be fair so uh but yeah new affordances I think I'm personally excited about like just accelerating the the amount of like talent that is building on the evm like so many people that I know got started programming by like you know playing minecraft and trying to build plugins or like trying to hack whatever game or build bots whatever game they're building and I feel like all if all that is being done on the evm like you're just gonna have so many like young so much young talent that like they want to win this game so badly that they're gonna like become the best solidity programmer in the world and like build some crazy indexing service and like run their own node and like you know spin up infrastructure that like companies like alchemy already have but like they're just gonna do it in their basement because like they want to be the most competitive player I feel like that's going to be super sick don't underestimate the kids you want to bring the kids to your technology basically yeah maybe um my answer to this is going to be super like fruit fruit like I'm going to zoom way out I'm going to ask you like well you know what is the purpose of life all right um and I say this kind of sardonically uh but really what I want to get at here is like there's all sorts of games that we play in real life that we take very very seriously um that like you know for example like global global capital markets are a game you know like going to a university to get a degree is like playing a game uh and in all of these cases like you know somehow I think that there's this bias towards like calling search and kinds of constructed games real and other kinds of constructed games like fake or something and like one argument that people try to make is that like oh you know like in the real category of things like participating in like you know global capital markets or like uh you know the academic system well you need to do that to like you know survive it eventually boils down to like food or like you know owning property or like having a house over your head or having more like material possessions but I mean if you really look at it like okay first of all there's a lot of games that we play that are quite circular you know everybody's like probably had the experience of being in some like weird like social bubble where for some reason a certain kind of action uh that you go through the motions of is like encouraged or discouraged for reasons that aren't actually grounded and the second thing is like you know even for the games where you're going to claim uh they have grounding and ultimately like survival or something there's a lot of extra fluff around those things like you actually don't need that much to continue like existing as a human being so like a lot of the interesting like I think you know a lot of the uh like what it means to be a human and participate in society is basically to like be an agent in like increasingly complex games and some of these games live in the physical world increasingly we're finding like a lot of these games live in the digital world and actually are quite interesting whether those are games like EVE Online or whether those are games like running B2B SaaS companies that you know like provide infrastructure like create value for like other B2B SaaS companies and I think that like you know this is kind like maybe this all sounds like kind of nihilistic but like you know I think that there's a very optimistic viewpoint around what this digital future holds because with these increasingly composable and interoperable uh like substrates for like all this sort of emergent complexity we're going to be able to keep finding new and more interesting games to play with each other and and to me that's what's exciting about autonomous worlds and even though these things are just like tiny little seeds right now who knows like we might find ourselves taking seriously just as much as our like online social and financial interactions as we do our IRL ones I mean like this crowd is like really great for that argument because everybody's here because you play one of the weirdest game ever like most of you are paid in like fake money or like fake money that could turn into like fake dollars and then like it's it's pretty insane that an entire industry spun around like again Ethereum Mainnet as like the most interesting MMO right now and I think that's like yeah nobody better than you folks to get that I think. All right thank you everybody for joining and thanks to Gub Sheep, Kevin Alvarius and Justin for having a great panel and thanks to iUsch for being a great co-moderator as well. I think we're going to take a break now actually I don't think we have time to take a break I think we're jumping right into some really interesting lightning talks so stay tuned. We will take a oh sorry guys we will take a mini break in the sense that we have to get our lightning talk folks up here and get some stuff on screen but let's just have another round of applause for everybody on stage awesome wide-ranging talk I don't know if that's what you guys expected when you were coming to a autonomous worlds panel but it's certainly delivered thank you guys can I grab everyone who's doing a lightning talk to to come up to the stage and then we'll kind of get you guys sorted and probably about three or four minutes everybody and then and then we'll start with the next piece of programming. And then they publish and this is also like really big to read but basically they output this thing called a state route which kind of you can think about this is like it gets rid of all the intermediate state of the game because at the end of the game we don't really care about individual player stats and stuff we just care about like maybe the prizes so one player has a 100 die 20 die at Etkett and anybody can come along to the smart contract and say like okay here's what I think the final state is and then the validity proof will say yes like I approve and yeah and then that gets set so it's kind of like anybody can like permissionously finalize this game but it's all validated by the zk proof um and then the reason that the state route is like a route it's like a miracle route is so that at the end of the game what users can come along and withdraw a prize or upgrade their character or whatever like that but because it's just a single commitment on chain it's all like very gas efficient and yeah this is what the game might look like so you deploy the contract players take various actions the game gets frozen at a certain time and then somebody comes along and settles up the game and then everyone can like withdraw their tokens and I don't know like prove that they've won the game or something and yeah and the idea here is that everybody's just like simulating the game locally but we use the blockchain as like a source of truth for actions um and I think this might start becoming clear like this whole like hallucination clickbait title um yeah hallucinations what do I mean by that um basically like because we're using a we're not like validating player actions during the game that data just like doesn't mean anything on the blockchain it doesn't actually like update the blockchain's date immediately but because we know the game rules we like understand what that information means um get good brains um and so does the proof the proof also encodes and enforces these rules for us um so like someone comes along and tries to submit a different action the code will kind of interpret that action within the rules of the game and then say like yes or no like is that valid so like the player on the right is like trying to do something that isn't a valid move within the game and then the proof is like retroactively saying no you can't do that um you cannot blow up the whole world but you could write a proof that like makes that a valid action if you want to um yeah so as I say the validity proof is like retroactively enforcing the rules enforcing the history of our game and basically making our shared hallucination real um and I think like thinking about games in this way is super efficient because we just all just like believe the same rules and we all just play the game without disagree like without them to check each other and then the proof will just like sort things out after um and actually like what do you think about this this system is actually technically a Zika roll up um it's not like the Zika roll up that you're used to it's kind of like a fully decentralized roll up without a sequencer no offense if like the optimism people are still here um I think their system is probably better um yeah players are just committing actions directly on chain uh yeah I don't do I have like much time left okay I'll go through this but very quickly so basically there's this problem of like world forwarding games um so basically like you want to do things like you want to have like things move over time like water um maybe this would be like opcraft 2.0 um like crops growing over time realistic physics uh AI which is actually the same image same image as the moving castles talk um yeah but the the problem is it turns out it's actually super hard to do this in the EVM you have like different approaches like eager and lazy world forwarding but they're all basically working around the same problem which is that the EVM is like fundamentally an interrupt based system things only happen on the blockchain when players submit actions to update the state but if you think about the real world or you think about traditional games they okay um they all like have this idea of a tick and the EVM just does not tick um and it turns out that the gamers want ticks it's actually really helpful for games if they just like progress naturally and you have NPCs and AI that just evolve over the course of the game um basically the EVM almost did tick there's a side even an alarm opcode but it turns out there's like fundamental problems with this that make it really difficult to actually implement this on a blockchain um and like if we did have that it'd be really cool um but the problem is that like you only have so much processing on a blockchain so it's like who who gets to tick basically um and the only thing you can do is just uh build a chain and like enshrine the most important updates you want to happen every block like directly into the protocol um and actually uh xerox hank and larmchair did a really cool experiment with this where they modified geth to like take over their little game of life uh game like every block i think um and yeah like somebody needs to do this like there's so much fun you can have with like building just rollups that aren't EVM compatible and do their own thing um and with our rollup it'd be pretty simple you would basically just rather than like leaping over every event um what the validity proof would instead do is like leap over every block and then if there's certain actions in that block it will apply them but it will also do different things like growing crops updating NPCs projectiles uh and yeah so basically i built like a first prototype of this kind of rollup system it actually has nothing to do with games it just does payments but i've never built a rollup before so it's kind of nice to start simple uh that's the link for it there and there's also a client that will sink you with the rollup too um and yeah like next steps for me is like i really want to keep thinking about this probably make a game that actually does this and kind of like build these ideas out and formalize them into something that's like more of a protocol and more of a standard and do this pretentious thing of like making it easy for you guys to spin up zk rollups they're evanescent and only last for a certain amount of time when you want to simulate really complicated high compute games that are like maybe more like web to games you could say to imply that and yeah um let's all listen to digital worlds together one more round of applause uh for phraser when all of these folks uh signed up to get some accommodations and work on games in london we didn't tell them they had to also present at dev con so thanks for putting all this stuff together and uh we'll just let flin get his av set up and let me know when you're ready and we'll kick it off howdy all right so this is a a talk called thomas world discovery and it's by it's by me so if i can go through all right so a little bit about me uh i'm flin i'm 23 and i'm from australia over there uh i only properly got into the kind of blockchain space about halfway through last year so that means i'm still a cryptographic baby uh since the start of the year i was working at a cryptocurrency exchange in australia called coinja uh no longer and since about mid september i've been participating in the autonomous world's residency in london and so far it's been absolutely incredible and i want to say a huge thank you to the lattice guys and the zero x bar guys without you guys i wouldn't i wouldn't be here today uh at the residency so far i've been working on a prototype for a new game that does some cool things with zk mechanics and uh information asymmetry but it's not ready to show off yet so i won't be talking about that today uh so what will i be talking about well thomas world discovery um so for a while i've been pretty interested in the prospects of a discoverable world um within a blockchain context uh so what do i mean by a discoverable world yeah so what do i mean uh well players do not initially know the entire state of the world they have to perform actions to incrementally gain knowledge of that world over time um to know what's out there you have to go out and see it in the traditional server authoritative authoritative model or the god server model i'll be calling it um you simply store the the whole map on the server as well as the players positions and um when a player moves to a new section of the map you simply send them the data for it player cannot see the entire map they can only see the pieces that the server sends them as they move to the world uh so what do i want i want to um achieve this property of discoverability uh without the need for persistent centralized information holder i think the idea of going out and exploring a virtual world where not only you don't know what's out there but nobody knows what's out there is pretty compelling i think that's a true digital frontier uh so dark forest dark forest already does this um in order to see the contents of a specific chunk of the map you have to mine it using hash power um pretty cool uh i have much respect for the dark forest team and what they've done there are two aspects that i contend with one map discovery is random access uh meaning that you can choose which parts of the map that you want to mine entirely independently of the positions of the planets that you actually control and two the rate of discovery is based on something entirely external to the game world uh your hash power so what i want is a system that is locality dependent you can only discover the world in your immediate surroundings um and the rate at which you can discover the world let's say it's the rate the the rate is bounded by or determined by the rules of the game world entirely and not influenced by anything so uh so how do we go about achieving that well let's try attempt number one let's say we have a tile based world where the contents of each tile is procedurally generated using pela noise with multiple levels of noise for better generation variety um however yeah so we got that however instead of the seed being fed to the pela noise algorithm for a specific tile be being being deterministic the seed is taken from a random oracle and is only determined when a player reaches that tile for the very first time and so it's like players are venturing out into a constantly full venturing out forth into a constantly shifting world that only solidifies when they get there um so this approach preserves locality of discovery as the players can only discover tiles that they are physically moving on to um and it also ensures that the rate of discovery is not dependent on anything external to the game world as the rate at which you can move through the world is determined by the rules of the world a natural extension to this is that rather than simply discovering the tile that you're moving on to you would discover all tiles that kind of radius around your current position uh that way you get kind of like a circle of vision and you trace it up a path over time which is important because you want to know if the next tile that you're about to move on to is going to be lava or land you can't do that with just a single tile at a time um the this random seed uh for each tile would then be saved into a mapping from positions to seeds you can see that there in the code um uh such that subsequent players reaching a tile would find that same seed um which ensures that yeah that same seed rather than getting a new seed from the Oracle this ensures that world permanence is preserved um although I do think there is something interesting in intentionally breaking world permanence you know kind of shifting sands crumbling castles um oops too far so preserving preserving world permanence in this system also means that all discovery is public because the seeds are published on chain a discovery for one player is a discovery for all players um all right so this is pretty cool but what I really want is private discovery I want to be able to go on an adventure into uncharted territory discover a dungeon uh that no one else has seen before now only I know about its existence then I could go and tell my friends about it and we could go loot it together or I could sell this information to someone else or I could publish it for the world to see regardless at the point of discovery that information has value I think that's cool um is this even possible though is it possible to privately discover information about a world that's publicly hosted on a blockchain is that published what is that is that possible enter witness encryption uh so I first heard about witness encryption from a video that Justin Drake did on combating MEV um specifically in relation to encrypted mempools uh so how does witness encryption even work well I'll quote JD directly uh with witness encryption you can encrypt message such that in order to decrypt the message you need to provide a witness proving that some statement is true uh and then this could uh sorry and this could be any statement in other words you can decrypt the message if you give it some snark basically a short proof that some statement is valid um underneath that right there's the that's the title of the youtube video I highly recommend checking out it's great um so this is literal witchcraft and sounds too good to be true my general understanding is that currently uh practical implementations of general witness encryption uh far from being feasible but my hope is that um over time the same thing that happened to zk technology will happen to witness encryption in the next couple years it'll become dramatically more feasible um all right so how does this relate to world discovery well let's say that we have a world that consists of a set of interconnected rooms a dungeon of sorts a world architect privately creates the set of rooms and their contents publishes the data describing the set of rooms and how they're connected and also for each room publishes a locked tome they then cease to exist that was their final contribution to humanity so what is this locked term well it's the data that describes the contents of the associated room requiring a proof to decrypt its contents so it's witness encrypted uh with each tome requiring a different proof this proof verifies that one there exists a valid path that actually leads to the room and two and this is where it gets a bit wacky uh that the player actually committed to taking that path on chain otherwise they'd be able to uh generate a proof uh going to every single room figure out which rooms hold the best contents and then only commit to taking that particular path between those particular rooms on chain um so that's where you need the actual proof of on-chain commitment as well in this example uh in order to find out what's inside room c you would have to show that there is an actual valid path from a to b to c and that you have committed to taking that path on chain so how would you achieve uh poc or proof of on-chain commitment um well you would start with proof of consensus uh where you verify the attestations of the current valid asset for a particular block hash uh which is something that i'm pretty sure succinct labs is working on currently um and then using that block hash would use proof of storage slot which is a term that i originally heard from frazier uh which is essentially just a medical proof that the commitment uh to the path exists on chain based on that that block hash um i'd like to think that there's some simple construction that you could build on top of the consensus logic that's easier to verify um it still gives you the same guarantees like full proof of consensus but who knows uh so what are some drawbacks to the system well yeah cool sorry about that um well it requires the initial world architect the divine creator to bring the world into existence it's better than the god server model um because they're no longer required after that initial publish and so the world can continue without them but they don't if they don't cease to exist and they can exert undue influence based on the fact that they know the contents of all the rooms kind of like the toxic waste that's created during a trusted setup that just less deadly in this case also after the initial creation of the world um it essentially remains static and finite and so there is a long term uh there's less long term dynamism in the discovery as well as plays will eventually just because plays will eventually discover the whole thing you could have the world architects continually add new pieces to the world but then you're essentially back to the god server model because they have to continue to exist um so can we do better synthesis we take the incremental tile discovery system from the first attempt and we inject witness encryption well what does that look like you still fetch the tile generation seed from the random oracle when discovering a new tile but now instead of publishing that seed directly you publish a witness encryption of the seed or acquiring a proof of valid path and proof of one-chain commitment in order for it to be decrypted boom you've both achieved private discovery and preserved well permanence without the need for a persistent centralized information holder or pre-definition of the world however although word discovery is private your position would still be public since you have to update the position to witness encrypted tile seed mapping that you see at the top there oh also did i forget to mention uh whoops we went too far yeah i forgot to mention uh that when publishing the witness encrypted tile seed uh you would also have to publish a zk proof um showing that you actually did the witness encryption correctly uh yeah so this is pretty clearly worked out beyond belief uh and is very far from being practical or even remotely practical but maybe one day it will be uh that would be that would be pretty cool all right so we're already at this level of ludicrousness uh can we can we go further of course we can homomorphic a homomorphically encrypted world generation system running on chain uh where you feed it your encrypted position and it gives you back the encrypted world data for that position as well as updating its internal state and when i say this when i say on chain what i really mean is probably across a series of recursive zk proofs in order to minimize on chain compute cost but maybe we'll eventually get to that point where on all on chain computation is done that way so the distinction will actually break down um while you're at it oh yeah i should do this yeah cool that's that's part uh while you're at it you may as well put the entirety of the world logic into this homomorphic system meaning that the rules of how the players interact with the world and each other then um yeah so that that's the rules that you put into there and then finally enough that means that we're effectively back at the god server model uh but now it's running entirely on chain autonomously and we can have confidence in its robustness um that's that part with the system we can now have private discovery of the world or maintaining privacy of your position um theoretically you should also be able to do something that seems natively difficult to achieve uh when positions are kept private um play discovery how do two players know that they've run into each other uh when their positions are private uh when they don't know each other's positions and um private play discovery the ability for player a to discover player b without player b discovering player a and while you're at it uh homomorphically encrypts my consciousness and put me on chain that way i can live forever uh that's the end of the talk thank you very much hey there i am lethie from asphodel we're one of the teams working at the autonomous world's residency we are working on i guess it would be best described as an autonomous on-chain mmo but i'm not going to be talking about that today what i want to talk about and touch on here is i guess what i think is the i guess what i think of is the most key emerging aspect of these systems which is the economies now when you create an autonomous world you create in almost all ways there will be a system of resource production and consumption so to use op craft as an example you can mine blocks you can place blocks you can craft blocks you can do a few other things like staking diamonds in order to claim chunks in the world and that's a very specific set of predefined affordances so that autonomous economy is the emergent system that evolves from that set of affordances that are placed in the game so what this means is when we design an autonomous world we're designing the fundamentals of an economy of a human social system that can potentially go far beyond the game we build and as builders we define those fundamentals we define how each of those points works so we can define the rules by which players are bound how do they move how do they harvest resources we can define the degree to which the world rewards cooperation versus antagonism so do you need to work together can you mug people is there an in-game five-dollar wrench attack where you can take someone else's resources and how do those resources work where are they available what's their supply how are they collected and when you put all these things together you get the seeds of a more complex social system so we define the rules but not the game users can build on top of these things they can play on top of these things and the really unique aspect about autonomous worlds that I think makes these emergent social aspects far more powerful than a traditional computer game is that players and community can build on top of those rules so they can literally add smart contracts so again using opcraft as an example there's nothing stopping devs building defy on top of minecraft in this system there's nothing stopping them creating nft marketplaces that allow people to resell blocks there's nothing stopping them deploying new smart contracts that expand the game functionality that might add new creatures new things you can do there's nothing stopping them creating in-game dowels and much more i'm sure there'll be visualization services explorers knowledge services it's pretty much impossible to predict what people will build and when we put all this together we get a complex economic system predefined parameters rules of interaction and human beings is independent agents within it and we do have a fairly big one of those in this world it's called capitalism and this means when we're designing autonomous worlds we have a pretty much unprecedented opportunity to design economies so fine tune rules of human interaction to fine tune the primitives and then see what evolves from them and the potential for that evolution goes beyond anything we've seen in gaming or virtual worlds before not only do players socialize and play in the ways that they wish they can expand the technology they could potentially build extra games on top of the original game that might use its resources or interact with it in one way or another and so we find ourselves in a situation where rather uniquely we can define a human economy and the fundamentals of it in a way that hasn't really been possible in most systems some defy protocols may work in this manner but games worlds it hasn't really been possible in this manner before eve online is a pretty good example the probably the closest thing in a traditional video game but it's not decentralized it's not autonomous and it's still controlled by certain centralized aspects that ccp specifically and so now we find ourselves we can build real world economic simulations we can forget about everything and we can build crazy creative stuff that's pretty much unprecedented and over the next few years i think we're going to see potentially tens or even hundreds of different models evolving on top of these autonomous worlds so what kind of things what might these look like what might we do so we can go simulationist we can try within autonomous worlds to mimic real world economic mechanisms we can say the resources are scarce trade is constrained in certain ways and we can attempt to really replicate the real world now some genres this works naturally RPGs management games strategy games in all of these examples simulationist economies can make sense but they also have potential uses beyond fun so consider in 10 years time when the autonomous world space is more mature economists could use these sort of mechanisms to essentially prototype and research new macroeconomic models this is something that's currently pretty much impossible you can't ab test tax rates but with sufficiently advanced autonomous worlds it starts to become impossible to do this it starts to become possible to do those kind of things starts to become possible to do social experiments academic experiments and in general to simulate real life economies in a particularly detailed way and we can also go in the exact opposite direction so we can go experimental we can do things a good if anyone's heard of a reddit slash r slash place which is a kind of collaborative process of placing pixels on a screen together this in a way is almost like a kind of proto autonomous world independent users interact with the world they build things together they have a very specific affordance which is they can place one pixel every 15 minutes and so this world evolves together as a collaborative artistic piece so slash r slash place on reddit they do this I think every year or so now and it becomes a huge thing people compete thousands and thousands of people come and place pixels together there's no reason you can do this kind of thing on chain using autonomous world check you could do it in 3d2 you could do a minecraft version where any of finite number of blocks are available everyone builds together and they create something new and again that then that's not really what we think of as traditional economy but it is defined by economic rules and we could also we can combine this with the simulationism we can do simulationism with a few elements off again that can be an economic experiment or it can be it can be for entertainment it can be for art and of course since this is crypto I feel obliged to add we can do competitive autonomous economies so we can create antagonistic pvp systems where in-game resources have established liquidity with external markets and what I mean here really is creating something that's a kind of viciously competitive pvp space so in some way you bring in funds from on chain and you essentially bet them on playing the game you put money in so you can steal a lot of money by the people's money they put money in so they can steal your money this becomes a kind of hyper aggressive competitive game now this the interesting thing about this the model that most closely resembles this type of autonomous world is actually a type of defy product called perpetual futures so I'm not going to try and explain this right now perps are infamously difficult to grasp but the point is with perps there's no underlying asset people trade based on market prices entirely based on collateral on each side so if the price goes up some people pay some other people the price goes down some people pay some other people it's a game it's a collateralized game it's not actually a financial product at all and many people don't realize this but perps which are essentially a completely pvp economic simulation they're responsible for some disgusting proportion of exchange volume people love them like massive massive amounts of money in crypto trading essentially go through what is a collateralized paper trading game it is a video game and so we can do the same kind of thing here and we can make it more fun we can make it competitive we can make it aggressively pvp we can add these kind of elements to a shooter or an rpg or an mmo and again you might combine this with the simulationist aspects so you get a simulationist game in its way is also more viciously competitive this is I guess a trap for homo economicus is kind of like the perfect simulation for someone's more competitive we can also as mentioned go experimental go more homo ludens and do things that are more creative fun and exciting and of course we can merge the two of them there are hundreds of permutations of how you might use these different models together to create autonomous world economies so this is pretty much a completely untouched field no one has really worked with this before only a handful of mmo's eve online and a few others have touched on this but they're not autonomous they're not decentralized and they're not composable so we take all the economic firepower of those games and we vastly magnify it and expect to see interesting developments here over the next few years I think just to close off fundamentally pretty much all autonomous worlds are going to evolve economies because by definition an economy is just a social system of human interaction so really the point of my talk here is that every autonomous world can also be seen as an autonomous economy to some degree I suppose you could really try to stamp out the economic aspects if you wanted but in almost every case these kind of economic developments are going to be fundamental to every autonomous world and I'm sure plenty of you in the audience I hope you've got some cogs wearing in your brains now but what could be done with this because the potential in my opinion is huge and yeah I'll close off that yes so I will jump right into things a quick intro for who I am and my co-founder who actually just flew out this morning my name is Omar I don't have a super cool like zero x name I do have a sweet tooth so that's why it's marzipan some of you might have read my blog post about dark forest the genesis of sort of the on-chain space it's on mirror please buy it it's my only source of revenue right now but me and my co-founder basically spent the past three months building a game called magic galactic cats I'll talk a little bit about the game you can actually play a version of it today it's launched on optimism girly you can't play it on mobile though and it's essentially inspired by other on-chain or rather not on-chain other auto battlers so games like teamfight tactics hardstone battlegrounds except it is running fully on chain so one of the other cool things is that you know since we're just a two person team we did things like we use dolly to degenerate all the card art that's why it's about cats in space dolly to is very good at that sort of abstract thing so use the tools that exist don't don't fight them yeah inspired by games like battlegrounds on the left or if you've ever played the indie game inscription excellent game very simple card game highly recommend it super quick just overview of like how or rather what we learned basically like building a game is hard prototyping is really important and specifically if you're going to build on chain you really have to understand the constraints of well like the on-chain back end as a design pattern so we'll be diving a little bit into that so basically a rough overview of how we built our game so it took place over the course of the summer about three ish months we had a playable version after about a month we basically forked the dark forest code base we tossed out almost all their contracts and almost all the game client but we kept a lot of their tooling so for example we built on top of the diamond standard and so it was really useful to sort of just have an example of what that looked like go ahead and yeah just a super quick overview of the code just to like ground what this actually looks like from a developer experience perspective most of the time that we spent was spent on the front end not the solidity back end again we use the dark forest code base so we had some really nice tooling made by people like blaine bublets to make building on top of the diamond standard super easy hard hat was amazing just coming from the web to world was sort of like my previous job like the development experience of hard hat kind of makes the like ethereum ecosystem just feel like you're building on a serverless back end which is yeah nice super quick overview of the actual game design if you're not familiar with games like battlegrounds basically cards can be played into slots players take turns consecutively and once all players have ended their turn the battle takes place and then it's the next turn so players for example don't select which card attacks which card like in vanilla herstone that is sort of just dictated by the the rules of the auto battle engine cool okay so what was hard to actually build again you you might have gotten a hint of this based on the lines of code or how much time we spent on the front end but the front end is by far the hardest part which actually doesn't really have anything to do with the on-chain aspect just building multiplayer games in general is hard most most game devs will probably echo this if you talk to them and they've built like any sort of multiplayer game distributed systems are hard games have the additional constraint of trying to bundle client state and back end state so if you take a really naive approach like we did where we just pull the back end you start running into issues where a player will try to queue up actions and then the back and pull will override it so it's not as simple as you know just pull the back end bro it's it's actually a little bit more nuanced than that okay and so building the stuff was hard but there's a large body of just multiplayer game dev blogs that you can pull from the actual hardest parts were just designing a game which isn't that surprising because that's also the hardest part of building a game in general so the simplest thing that I would just echo throughout this talk is just try to design the simplest gameplay loop as possible so we took a lot of inspiration from the games that I mentioned but we also just basically ripped off a lot of their gameplay patterns and that was a really bad idea because most of the pl