to order the meeting of the Waterbury Select Board on Monday, April 17th, 2023. First on the agenda is the item to approve the agenda. Do we have a motion? I move to approve the agenda as presented. Second. Okay, the motion's been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of approving the agenda as presented, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? The agenda is approved. Item number two, the consent agenda items of which there are many, but the reason for this is to move the process forward. Do I hear a motion? Motion to approve the consent agenda items. Second. All right, the motion has been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of approving the consent agenda items, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Okay, the consent agenda is approved. Okay, we are now at the point where we ask the public to address any items that are not on the agenda. Does anyone have anything? And I would ask that you keep your comments to three minutes of rest. Anyone up on Zoom? We are now on to the third item on the fourth. Consider and receive public comment on a one-year extension of the interim bylaws of the downtown zoning district. Do I have any motion from the other? You should ask if there's any public comment on this agenda item. Okay. There is technically a public hearing. Yeah, I'm just going to share it right now. Okay. Does anyone in the public want to comment on the one-year extension of the interim bylaws of the downtown zoning district? Chris? Is that just because they're not completed yet so they're looking to extend it out to... That's my understanding. Correct. That they're looking to get them completed by the end of this year, but that hasn't been done yet. And so we need, they're allowed to have one more year of extension. And that's what's been requested. Okay, thanks. So, doesn't the zoning board have to afford them the additional year? Or does that happen automatically? Happens automatically. No. Okay. Excellent. Okay. We will consider the interim bylaws of the downtown zoning district extended for another year. Okay, appointment of the boards. The first is the development review board. We have three candidates for three-year seats. The candidates are David Frothingham, Bud Wilson, and David Rogers. Yes. I move to appoint David Frothingham, Bud Wilson, and David Rogers to three-year seats on the one-year rate development review board. All right. Do we hear a second? Second. All right. So moved by Alyssa and seconded by King. Any further discussion? Thank them all for their service. It is a board that often has meetings even longer than ours. So I appreciate their willingness to continue to volunteer. And Dave has served as chair for many years. And I believe that David Frothingham and David Rogers has a vice chair, I believe. Mm-hmm. All right, any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of appointing the three candidates for an additional three-year term. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? The three candidates have been approved for an additional three-year tenure. Recreation committee, we have two three-year seats. We have one one-year, one-year extension. One expired, so it's a seat that's vacant. But it's an extension. And one that's a two-year. And so our candidates are a proposed re-appointment of Frank Spalding who has been serving as chair. And then appointments of candidates who've been voiced their willingness and interest in serving. Scott Culver, Beth Gilpin, Stacey Lambert, Bethnick Dougal, and Jake Ferrara. And Jonathan Smith. So. Based upon that here appears to be many more candidates than there are slots. I assume we would look at other candidates to be alternate. And so if they so wish. Yeah. I think so. Shall we call the candidates in order? Frank Spalding, two years? Frank's not here, no. No. Frank has been serving as I mentioned as chair for several years. Roger Smith. Sure. Did Frank, sorry, I'm looking at matching the three-year, one-year, two-year with the folks who put their name into consideration. So it wasn't defined that way, Danny. Everyone just put their name into consideration. It wasn't until Friday that I let them all know that there was unappointed seats. Right. And I just let them know that that would be a topic. Okay. No one specifically responded. I wanted the two-year, I wanted one. Stacey Lambert, who's on Zoom, did let me know that there was an alternative committee she would consider. Frank, I did not ask the letter for. It was my understanding that if they were already on the board it was a rather routine thing to just reappoint them to the board. And can you tell me which term he was, or which seat he was filling, three-year? Frank? Yeah, sorry. They're all three-year. They're always a three-year, these unexpired ones are people who have come on the board. So they've resigned in the middle of that. I got it. Thank you so much. Yeah, so I think one thing we could do would be to ask if the candidates would be willing to consider the one or two-year slot or maybe they would prefer it. So I'll just call the people in order and then if you're here, I'll ask you to come up and give us a brief summary of your interest in serving. So Frank's not here. Scott Culver. I don't see Scott here. Scott's not here. Okay, Beth Gilpin. Beth Gilpin, I'll have some first. So Beth did send a detailed letter or did you think everybody had a copy of that? Mm-hmm, thank you, Beth. You're welcome. I'm open to any of the terms if that's one of the questions. Okay, thank you for letting us know. You have a preference. I don't think so. Okay. And can you briefly thank you for submitting your letter and letting us know what your qualifications might be in the background? But why don't you just tell us why you have particular interest in serving on the committee? I'm looking to make kind of a more regular commitment to a committee in town. I tended to volunteer here and there and helped with Winterfest and other activities, help interview candidates for recreation director a handful of years ago. I forgot to put that in the letter. You know, my education was in recreation management. It's always been close to my heart. I'm excited about what I have seen and I'm seeing happen with recreation in Waterbury. And I'd love to be part of the effort to think strategically about our resources and about people's needs all ages. And with a really broad, what seems to be a broadening definition of recreation as I hear about some of the programs under development. So I think that's it. I'd love to join and be a part of the committee to help shepherd that collaboratively. Great, thanks. Any other questions for Beth right now? All right, Beth, thank you. No, thanks. All right, next up we have Stacey Lambert. Hi, nice to see everyone. So I had expressed in my email on Friday that I would be interested in the one year unexpired or any of the terms, but I'm fine with the one year to try that out and see where my skills would best fit. I also gave the alternative of I could be equally interested in the conservation commission as well. So I have leadership experience. I've been a chair of a board, a vice president out of college. I've been coming to Vermont for 30 years and I three years ago moved to Vermont and was living in Stowe for two years and I just bought a house in Waterbury Center. And I love Vermont and I'm passionate about wanting to keep it in a place that is special and unique and all the hallmark factors that come in in terms of the geography, the sense of community. I'm a clinical psychologist by training and so I mentioned in my letter one of the things that I think is really important for folks well-being is building a sense of community. And I really like what my colleague that went before me shared about for all really looking at a needs assessment of the ages, the demographics of Waterbury and Waterbury Center and trying to plan accordingly. But, and I'm very fun. I like all things Vermont. I was put for some levity in my letter that I like the Vermont 251 Club. And so I think I'd be for the recreation committee certainly be part of now more aptly the 251 plus one but I'd be interested in contributing to event planning things of that nature and the conservation committee just keeping Vermont special. And it's so different and unique than other places coming from having lived in my career of working at other colleges. It's the one place I think it's really just so unique and special wanting to contribute to keeping it that way. Great. So would you have a preference between recreation and conservation? You know what? I think they both appealed to me in different ways. I was trying to be respectful of my colleagues because I feels like there were more folks that were interested in the recreation than conservation and I could be equally happy and well-suited skillset for both. So wherever I could serve best. Which college do you serve? It was kind of vague. Oh yeah, William James College. It's William James College. It is in Massachusetts. And it is a where we've been remote since the which is what allowed me to live in Vermont for the last three years. Any other questions for Stacy? Stacy, thank you. Appreciate it. Beth McDougal. Belle. Belle, sorry. One question, Roger, but it's okay. I believe Belle and Jake presented kind of a joint application so I'm just wondering if we wanna hear from them together. I know that's not as I'm aware currently written into the violas but I'd love to hear the two of you share it together if we think that makes sense. They're amenable. Okay. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a real percentage of that. We'll do it either way but we came up with this idea not knowing how many people would apply but here we are. One, I'll talk first, you want to talk? Go for it. But Belle McDougal, I've lived in Waterbury for the last 30 years or so at the Waterbury Center. And I don't really have any experience per se in recreation other than raising money and doing small projects around town when our son was at Thatcher Brook. I got involved in the natural playground and got involved in the natural playground. It worked on that project and raised some money for that. And then in 2011 worked on the small skate park at Hope Davy, which we need to probably replace. And many of you probably know that I've been involved in the skate park coalition that's trying to bring a new concrete skate park. And that's how I met Jake, who works for Essie Group. So he can tell you about his experience. I would love to work with all these people who are very interesting. I would just like to get a little bit more involved as a volunteer and contribute in that way. And I think I feel like Waterbury is a really special place and last week at the meeting with the conservation, planning and visioning, I got really interested in really thinking about, wow, how do I really like to spend time with my friends? And there are a lot of options here.  And I'd also like to shepherd and help make decisions about how we allocate those rare green spaces that we have left. And I'd love to grow the budget a little bit in the recreation department too. I don't know how we do that. I know I envision trying to pull together a grant, potentially for the Land and Water Conservation Fund that's, you know, another cycle may be announced, thinking about the development needs at Hope Davy and the ICE Center. So yeah, I just have a lot of things going around in my head about it. And I thought, well, step up and get involved. Well, I think Bell has been really instrumental from the Ski Park Coalition's point of view in pushing forward our efforts on the VORI grant. And I think the last time around, there had been better synergy with the community that we would have had a much stronger case. We weren't quite ready, we realized. Yeah. But I didn't feel like we were collaborative in that effort. Yeah. I think that's a big reason why we're interested in taking part on the Rec Committee. And we are both on the Ski Park Committee, but I think we have a really holistic vision of what we want to see as recreation amenities in our town. I think, especially at the ICE Center area where the Ski Park could potentially be, you know, the vision that SE Group has brought forward of this more holistic approach, I think is something that we and Bell are really instrumental in bringing together the stakeholders of that area and trying to push, you know, what those stakeholders wanted to see in these parks. And I think we can bring that same energy and interest to the Rec Committee and taking that to the whole town-wide aspect. And in my background, I am a landscape architect with SE Group. I'm not technically involved with the work they're doing in Waterbury right now because I am on the Ski Park Coalition, so I was a little too close to home, I think. But I am working on plenty of other recreation projects throughout the state and country and have a good vision and idea of what can be done. And I think Waterbury has a really unique opportunity of pulling on the recreation economy that it really already has and just creating something that's really great and creating a beautiful walkable recreation for a community. Yeah.  Perhaps we would fit into the two-year or three-year spot. And I could be or Jake could be the primary if there's a shortage of spaces and one of us could be an alternate. However, it works best. I think we both are just busy people and we both are interested, but it's hard to be hard for me to commit and hard for Bell to commit full-time. So I think that was our hope and sharing position. If you had to choose, which we're going to have to choose, it's up right here, who would you nominate as being the lead and who would be the alternate between the two of you? I think we've decided that Bell would probably be the lead and I'd be the alternate, but I think we kind of see that one vote but shared thinking. Okay. And you said a two or three-year slot is what you'd be looking for? Sure. All right. Any other questions for Bell or Jake? No? All right. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. You're the best for the fellows all. I really appreciate it. All right. And our final candidate for the Recreation Committee is Jonathan Smith. Okay, then. We've seen and we've had a bit of time with all the candidates for the Rec Committee. Do I have a recommendation? Process-wise, I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly, but I would recommend or move that we reappoint Frank Spalding for a three-year seat on the Rec Committee. All right, let's do it. Yeah, let's move through each slot one at a time. I think it'll probably be easier. And so we have a motion to reappoint Frank for a three-year slot. Do I hear a second? All right, any further discussion? I would just say in addition to being, having served for many years, he holds a very high-level position in the Department of Forest Parks and Wildlife, and we're really lucky to have him also living in town and volunteering for this, though he's not here. Anything else? Hearing none, all in favor of Frank Spalding in one of the three-year slots. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Frank has been reappointed for our three-year slot on the Rec Committee. Okay. Do I hear a recommendation or a motion for the second three-year slot? Can I ask a question of the panel? It's all yours. The folks that were not present, did they indicate any reason why they could not be here? Or they didn't expect that they might not be here? I can't speak really about sky, didn't speak to him. Jonathan, I reached out to Jonathan very late and the reason is because I saw his name in some Rec Committee minutes that I was posting and Frank had come into the office interested and so I reached out and confirmed that he was and got a lot of interest from him. So in all fairness to him, I don't know if he knew that coming tonight would be an appropriate thing, but I can tell you that he has been, via Frank, he's been attending meetings. Does Frank have any kind of recommendation? I didn't have Frank's recommendation. He wouldn't. Who? No. There's a secretary who's from the office. No, I'm saying it's a great thing, that's all I need to know. He's specifically from the recommendation, so. Do I? I was gonna propose a slate, but that gets a little hard. Well, we can, yeah. Well, we can. Wow. We might have Frank. Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it. I guess I would just say my holistic goal is that I'm really excited. So many people are excited to volunteer for boards and committees, and so my goal is to find a spot for as many of them as possible, and we have right about that amount of candidates. I guess I would say to that effect, I really appreciated Stacey's note that I think she would be an incredible candidate because we have no candidates for the conservation commission if she is willing. My proposal would be that we move her into conservation commission consideration, just to, since we're getting high on the number for REC committee. Similarly, I appreciated Belle and Jake offering to air quote, share a seat, again, allowing us to get more folks involved in the regular ongoing work. And I would say, I again, appreciate Scott volunteering and Jonathan. Unfortunately, we weren't able to hear from either of them tonight, and I feel like I got a little more information from Jonathan and that he had attended some committees, meetings previously. So I'm gonna propose, let's see if I'm doing math correctly. I had that, we had four seats. We've appointed Frank to one, and then for the remainder, I was gonna propose Beth Gilpin. We could do a three year term. Belle and Jake to share a two year term, and Jonathan Smith for a one year term. Just to be clear, one year term just means that he's back here next year, and Candidly and Fairness, since he was the one who didn't appear here tonight, he can reassess after a year, and thank everyone who applied, and then we could do Stacey as a separate motion for conservation, if that makes sense. Can I have a second? Second. And do you want me to restate that? That was thinking out loud, I'm sorry.  I don't know. I think I've got it. You okay, Karen? I think so. I have Beth Gilpin for the open three year term.  Yeah, we'll say Belle. Premisee is Jake. Right. And Jonathan Smith to the... Okay, do I hear a second on that? Second. All right, Mike is seconded. Any further discussion? Yeah, I guess I just want, it sounds like what we're saying is that Belle would be the primary Jake being an alternate. Of course, it's public meetings that he can attend, but sitting at the table in the conversation, are there two bodies at the table? If they're both there? Or somebody's in the audience as a member of the public, but would sit in the seat if it were, if Belle couldn't attend, Jake would sit. I can speak to her that, because I know when we were on the DRV, we used alternates very readily. And the way we used alternates were all but members, but when it came to voting, is the primary was the voting person. And then if, for instance, the actual member was not there, the alternate would come in as a full candidate. So you want to fully engage them. Some places will have alternates that did not engage as full representatives in that way you can. And just to be clear, if you're pointing as an alternate, he's an alternate to the committee, he's not an alternate to her specifically. Oh, I see that. Right, exactly. And that's what I would also recommend kind of maybe an amendment to that. Scott Culver as well being an alternate, because I know he's been very active in Little League and stuff like that. And I think he would make an excellent alternate. So the more bodies are always kind of a good thing, but Stacey kind of helped us out because thank you much, Stacey, because we do need members on the conservation commission. And now we're really- My pleasure. All right, what Mike is proposing would be an amendment to- A friendly amendment taken. It's accepted. Two alternate. All right. All right, we have a motion that's been moved, amended and seconded. Any further discussion? All right, all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? All right, the slate is approved. Thank you all, and congratulations. Thank you all. Moving on to the tree committee. Congratulations, all. We have a one-slot open for a three-year seat and two candidates, Marge Gulles and Zinn Wolf. Marge, you here? She's on. She's on. Marge, you're muted. I'm not muted anymore. Nope, go ahead. Just interested in your interest in serving on the tree committee. I am interested in serving on the tree committee. I know this is going to sound like a cliche, but I have been interested in trees for my entire life. My father was a forester in Maine and my two brothers are foresters in Maine. And I have spent a lot of time, you know, with trees in the woods and appreciate a lot how much trees have to offer for humans and wildlife and ecology and actually the world. I've been in Waterbury for 27 years. I'm on the Rotary Club. I'm on the Friends of the Waterbury Public Library. I belong to the Garden Club and belong to another garden group that takes care of the gardens behind the public library. Several years ago, I attended a session called Soul, which was stewardship of the urban landscape. That was something that was done by, at that particular time, I think it was Vermont Community Forestry, probably a precursor to forest parks and recreation. With the idea that once I completed that, I would join a tree committee or get involved in some way with trees. At that particular point, I did not have enough time and did not want to commit to that, knowing that I would not be able to fulfill that commitment. Last month, I was in a Waterbury Garden meeting with another woman in the meeting who also belongs to the tree committee. And we talked about trees as opposed to most of the other garden club members talking about animals and perennials and what they're going to do with their gardens. And she told me that there was an opening on the tree committee and asked me if I would be interested. And I said, yes, I would. And she and Steve Lott speech invited me to the tree committee meeting in March, which I attended and am very interested in being on the tree committee. I've also taken the master gardener course and last year completed a course called Forced Pest First Detectors and I'm taking an upgrade on that this year, which was designed specifically for conservation committees, tree committees and anybody else that was interested in it. I wanted to keep updated on that not only as a potential candidate for the tree committee, but because of the land that I own in Waterbury, two of the major pests that are invasive for trees are the woolly, adultered for hemlocks and the emerald ash borer. And many of the trees on our property in Waterbury are hemlocks and ashes. So I'm very interested in keeping updated on that. And would be very interested in being able to participate on a community-wide basis on the tree committee. Great, thank you. Any other questions for March? Mike. Hi, March. I do have a question. I know you probably, you know, from what you talked about that you have a good background in forestry and tree kind of things, but sometimes the tree warden gets involved in maybe adversarial situations. You have a tree leaning over onto a roadside that may need to be taken out. How do you feel you're able to intervene in those adversarial maybe relationships and try to mitigate, you know, a landowner's concern that his tree may have to come down? Well, I'm not really sure if that's something that the entire tree committee would get involved with my understanding is that Mike Losciavo is the new tree warden and has been appointed the tree warden. And I know there was something that came out today that there were a couple of trees that were down on Main Street. And the suggestion was to get Woody or somebody else involved from the town as opposed to even the tree warden. So I think, you know, as part of the committee, I would certainly be willing to participate in that type of a conversation. Thank you. Any other questions for March? Thank you. All right, March, thank you. Our other candidate is Zinn Wolff. Is Zinn available? Yep, come on up. Good, welcome. Thank you. All right, would you please let us know why you're interested in Zinn? Yeah, my name is Zinn Wolff from Waterbury Center. First of all, I'm looking to get more involved with the community. And in the town. And my mom sent me a link for the tree community. I was like, great. Perfect, I love trees. I love spending time outside. I've had five years experience as a hazardous tree removal specialist. And I've had the opportunity to deal head on with municipal projects with emerald ash borer, removing ash trees in anticipation of emerald ash borer, as well as infected trees. And as well as a lot of experience planting trees, tree health care, burning trees. And learned a lot of those skills under Montargris and had the pleasure of working for myself for the past few months as well. And currently studying for my harvest certification officially. And again, just wanted to get more involved with the town. Thank you. Thank you. Xen, I was just wondering, since we do have openings on the Conservation Commission, would you consider serving on that commission if you're not able to serve on the tree committee? Yeah, possibly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Good, the word is out of my mouth. Well, I know you're under duress. Any other questions for Xen? Thanks for coming forward. We appreciate your candidacy. All right, we've heard from both the candidates. Do we have any motions from the board? I would recommend to appoint Orange Goulas as the representative on the tree committee and having Xen being considered for appointment to the Conservation Commission. If he's, it sounds like he would like to do that. I would say he looks. All right, we have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. All right, the motion moved and seconded. Any further discussion? I just wanted to thank both of you, Marge and Xen for stepping forward. Getting people to step forward and serve in these committees is not easy. We have, I think it's a reflection of what a wonderful town we have that we do have such a good act of support. Many, unfortunately, we only have one spot to fill and we have a motion for Marge to serve in that capacity. So we appreciate you for both of that. Any other discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of Marge serving in three years on the tree committee, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Congratulations, Marge. Thank you very much. All right. I don't know if we were on. Okay, moving on to the planning commission. We have one seat open for three years and we have one, two, three, four, five candidates. Just five. Just five. Just five, as we're on most of them. So they are Amy Marshall Carney, Billy Victor, Robert Adler, Monica Callum, and Douglas Griske. So we'll ask for them to step forward in order and Amy Marshall Carney. Hi there. What's going on? Thank you. Good afternoon. So first time, I've presumed you've read my bio. Do you have any questions for me to get started? Well, if you could just, again, restate the primary interest in serving on the planning commission as we help them. Yeah, no worries. So as I said, long time for a monor, really appreciate living here. Had a professional world that was pretty full steam for a while, had some children, they're all getting to the place where they're a little more independent. And I have the opportunity to give facts. So I've belonged to a lot of groups in the area, support a lot of groups in the area, but now I really want to be able to be present in some of this work. So as I look through the different openings, the different pieces of governance that's within the town, the planning seemed to line up with my strengths pretty strongly. So typically, I do do that. I did have some questions though. That's a lot. Sure, all right. So I didn't have a clear understanding though, like what would be the priorities that will pay the commission for the next three years for this position to fail? Is that part of the work that the committee would need to do? And is that the agenda though? Yeah, well, I think one of the primary things is the passage of the new zoning bylaws, which they've been working on for two years. We just extended it, but we were, I think, pretty interested in getting those bylaws completed and out to the public over the courses next year and in the position to be finalized by the end of this year. Great. We have more? Yeah. And I would just say more generally, so the planning commission, like we as a select board, to some extent, the planning commission considers the long term growth and development of Waterbury and comes up with recommendations that then come to us as a select board, ultimately to a job. But I just want to respect that. It's a volunteer board that's done a really great job thinking about that. And again, as Rogers both do that policy, it's kind of the next thing most likely to be adopted. But these interim regulations we adopted earlier today were something that went to the planning commission for consideration and vetting before they ultimately came to this select board. And they did receive a grant to help with outreach, specifically around a certain portion of the bylaws who perform the downtown, so they're working on that. But I would say, in general, I would defer to them in terms of their meetings and their expertise. Absolutely. Any other questions? Yeah, sorry. Have you been able to attend any planning commission meetings in the past? I was able to watch, no, excuse me, I did not. I'm sorry, I got to the DRV, not the but you have now more capacity to be able to attend. Yes, yeah, my formal, my, let's call it, paid work is around 20 hours a week. So it's pretty manageable. Yeah, and then I do have some side work. But it is very helpful. Yeah, I was going to ask if we end up not choosing you for planning, would you consider a seat on conservation? I'm just going to ask. No, of course, yes, yes, absolutely I would. Because again, the skills I think I can bring in the qualifications background, they're all pretty transferable. I just recognize that the role the planning commission has in relation to the conservation. Just curious on your resume, Ty, where it says, administered all state of Tennessee and Vermont learning grants for green mountain fluffy roasters and curing green mountain. Is curing part in Tennessee? They were, yeah, I'm not sure of their current position. I left in 2017. Okay, that was kind of, that's kind of through. That was a process, let me tell you. I saw some gaps between the states. Let's put it that way. Very different states. Any other questions for Amy? No, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, Billy Big Door. Good evening, everybody. We've got riches looking for the planning commission. I'm going to pretend some of you don't know my background, so we'll start there. And I will answer the question. I'm going to start with staying on the commission if you will. I feel a little weird just being here, so I'll just leave it at that. So for the four years that I've lived here full time, I've been on the Winterfest leadership team and Colette Wanderlust, and I've been honor a sign man for the last three years. Those little signs that go up and down, that's mostly me. I've been on the conservation commission. I participated when we lived here part-time, but I participated joint full-time in April of 2019, and last year I became chair of the commission. We've done some good stuff. I definitely think we've done, and we lack capacity as you probably know. Before moving here, I was an attorney and a PhD in economics. My practice was basically doing mergers and acquisitions. So I have a keen sense of economics and business, and obviously drafting. We draft documents all the time. So one of the things I thought that I could contribute to the planning commission would be kind of that legal and economics, the legal skills, the drafting, the process, and that as well as when there are those tough trade-offs, a balance between how you're going to take people's properties interest and take care of those and try to figure out how to balance the pros and cons and the economic incentives. And I feel like I would bring a complimentary skill, not a, I'm not a planner. I think that's a few of my letter for any questions. Any questions for Billy? Oh my God, I'm sorry, there's 14 questions. I will go with you first. Oh, no, I was just saying, just pointing at it. I'll ask you a question. It's one time in the evening. Hi Billy, how are you? I'm really all too well. You obviously just have really significant legal expertise. Our planning commission is a volunteer board with folks with some planning background, no planning background, some legal background, no legal background, some staff capacity from a planning perspective, but not necessarily a legal perspective. How would you kind of see like levels of capacity in a small municipality in legal expertise interacting? Well, look, I think if you focus on the bylaws, it's really about drafting clear guidelines, drafting language so that we reflect the language actually does what we wanted to do. And honestly, sometimes we don't want to be clear. Sometimes you use vague terms like reasonableness and things. So it's not really practicing law and it's not level of sophistication. It's just bringing that kind of precision and clarity to the work that you do and also a sense of, you know, the client wants to get something done, you better get it done. So that's, man. Sure. That's your last point was something that I think we all know the planning commission is, you know, really needing and wanting to take action and make things, make sure things get done this year. So as much as it has to be detail oriented, it also needs to really be action focused. So I'm curious if that's something you felt, you know, you were right into the process. Yeah. So I guess I have my thoughts on how to do it. I mean, when the conservation commission put its comments in on creating an overlay district or a modification to an overlay district, we were looking at a brand new, completely rewritten set of bylaws. Now we've been completely rewritten. I think if we just keep rewriting and rewriting and getting into the interstices, I think we go nowhere. I think if I, in my way, we would pull back and say, what problems are we trying to solve? What is the town facing? And how do we solve that by changing the language of the existing bylaws? Get some focus on terms of the town priorities. We can worry about the details of, you know, height and densities, maybe in the background, but I think the idea is prioritized based on where we want the town to go. Any other questions for Billy? All right, thank you, sir. Thanks everybody. Robbie Adler. Rob Adler. Oh, shoot. I have somebody else. It's not Rob. Somebody in the waiting room? It's not Rob. All right. We'll come back to them if it's not here now. Monica. I think Helen. Hey, everybody. Thank you for the opportunity. I would like to be on the planning commission because I'm very interested in what those documents are that basically define how we grow the town. I've been here for over 50 years in Waterbury. I've seen a lot. And there's some great stuff that, you know, is still here and I'd like to preserve some of that, but I'd like to also, I've also spent some time in New York City and other places and I've seen some really great things that I think Waterbury would benefit from. So I wanna be at the table to share some of those insights to help the zoning be simple and easy to understand and to access and the processes to be easy for people to go through and have those have those wordings exact like Bill was saying. And so I'm very interested in sort of a holistic approach to those zoning. Those zoning rules and a fair and holistic approach. So I'm interested in conservation of what our resources and the way of life that we have all come to love in this town. I'm interested in equity and in creative thinking to make Waterbury the place that we all want to be.  I've touched base with a lot of things throughout my career. I've got some policy experience I have, but I'm very interested in creating a town that everybody can live in and not just people who come here for a month of the year to visit. I mean, the tourism is great, but it's community that I'm interested in and creating a town where community is what moves our community forward. The idea of community and the group community. So. Thanks. Similar question that I think I asked to Amy is while we're looking at the crucial forward momentum and curious how your capacity looks and if you're able to be there at each meeting and participate fully, I just like, you know, so much wonderful stuff on the resume. So that's what I was curious to ask from everybody is capacity. Yeah. Well, to do that, I'm stepping forward to do it because I'm going to make, I'm going to give something up to be here because I feel strongly about it and I feel like I'm in a good place. So yes, I have the capacity to do that and I have the flexibility to create my own schedule. I'm working that way. So I can make that. Same. I should say I've stepped back from doing this for quite a time because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to do that and now I'm in a position I can't. Two questions for you, Monica. The first is you mentioned you had been to New York City and seen wonderful things and wanted to bring those here. I was wondering what those were. And then the second question was, if we don't pick you, conservation? I will be honest with you that I am not going to make room in my life for just conservation. Conservation is something I want to touch on. Absolutely. I live in, I live right in that corridor and I love that corridor. So it is definitely something I'm very interested in preserving but I can't. There's going to be a lot of people who can do what I do there. So I hope that doesn't discount me for it. I don't think I can. Did you get to the first question? Oh, sorry. I learned a lot in New York. Being on the New York City DCLA gave me some real insights. And one thing that I didn't know was in New York until I spent the time there is that community is really what makes your space. Not the money, not the shiny things, not all those things that people, you see in all the tourist magazines or whatever. What really made those neighborhoods special were the people who were there and who were contributing all the time and loved where they lived. I took that for granted here and in a place like New York City where there's garbage and dog poo on the street all the time, it was very interesting to see that and all the crime and all the sirens and everything else. So what makes a place special is the people. I knew you pretty well, Monica, but I'm curious something on your resume. When you mentioned you were Secretary of the Waterbury Zoning Commission, were you on the ZBA? No, no, no. I was just taking the notes of the meetings. So I saw all the... I don't think... Was there a DVR there? ZBA back then? Way back then. Because things got deliberated. But it may have just been personnel. Years kind of went, because ZBA kind of disappeared into the planning commission and the DRV. So I don't know... When was Al Finnell? That's a good question. That was a long time ago. That was 20... That would have had to be in the... That would have been in the mid-90s. For those at home zoning board of adjustment and now the development review board, but there was... I was just more curious because if you were on the zoning board of adjustment, you would have had a lot more in-depth stuff on zoning regulations and stuff like that, which the planning commission... No, but I saw how the zoning played out or it didn't play out. Okay, thanks. All right, any other questions for Ramon? All right, thank you. Thank you. And Douglas, please. My game, Ramon, in 1979 is a 25-year-old captain hired to run out from Jammer School in Raleigh, Shenzhen Lane. And I fell in love with it. My wife and I built a schooner called the Homer W. Dixon that ran out on Lake Champaign V. It's something I remember. And when we finally were ready to move on, we went into the marine industry, which is where our strengths were. I moved to Seattle and spent 25 years trying to figure out how to get back here. So when my career in shipbuilding was at a point where I could wrap it up, we moved back and I've been in Waterbury for four years. And with the large exception of COVID, it's been great. Being in the community is great. Being back in Vermont is great. And I'm now at a spot where, although my wife might not agree, the house is pretty much finished with the language, I'm going, I'd like to get more involved in the community. And when I saw the planning commission had an opening and the rewriting of the zoning regulations was the front and center task, I was excited about that, Alyssa. No, seriously, I spent my whole working career on the receiving end of regulation. Having to find ways to comply with regulations that could be unreasonable or hard to understand, but nevertheless there they were. And the opportunity to be part of assembling the new zoning laws for this town, zoning regulations for this town, that can be easy to understand, which is what I think one of the guidance and the 15-point guidance document is it needs to be accessible to the average person in Waterbury. And it can reflect the values of our community in an accessible way. How are we great? Your question of availability? I have the time. And I'd like to spend it serving on the board and becoming more a part of the community. Moving to place six months before the pandemic comes in, it's not the easiest way to get to know people and become part of the community. But we're fortunate in our part of those times. It's just now that things have settled a little bit is the time that I would like to get back and do this. All right. The last question is for Doug. Have you been able to attend any of the Planning Commission? I attended the last meeting when I sort of heard about this opening on the board and started thinking maybe this is something I could do. I attended that meeting, yes. And I also attended a presentation from the Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission which was a Zoom presentation about two weeks ago describing the roles of the various... Fundamentals of land use planning. Thank you. I'm not a big part of the meeting. And if we're not able to appoint you tonight would you be in second? No. No. I have a question. Yeah. When you mentioned you were at the mercy of unreasonable regulations I'd like to know more about that. Sure. And some of the regulations were unreasonable. I worked building large luxury yachts for international business so we dealt with high net worth individuals in a heavily regulated industry where the vessels had to meet commercial standards so there were performance standards there were specifications of this material this item this calculated capability and much of it was either behind the times or ahead of the times with very little of it but some of it was you just comply with it some of it was not good and there was no value for trying to improve it. The British Red Ensign Regulatory System is the sort of gospel in that industry and it's antiquated in many ways and the European approach is often different than the American approach and in how you can have a cooperative process. Like what kind of volunteer activities this three days when you were out in Seattle and you were in Vermont running the sloops and stuff like that what did you do in Vermont for volunteer let's see I was part of the a non-profit that was the precursor to the Lake Champlain Maritime Museum Art Cone put it together and I was on that board with Art and when that organization wasn't going to be able to assemble the wheel and the fire power to get a physical museum going Art moved on from that I volunteered in small functions around Burlington you know like the picnic or something doing that okay no on the west coast I was on the board of an environmental group the environmental coalition of South Seattle that was trying to combine brown fields and business and environmentalism and trying to find a way to get the business community to view the environmental community as an ally in a business setting which is there weren't a lot of groups trying to do that at the time and we had some success we did some projects with industry participation from industries that haven't been active before I was on board to view sports activities in that kind of thing thank you any other questions thanks again thank you Elizabeth joined the meeting and I don't know if Elizabeth Robert Adler I believe had contacted me and said he might be out of town so I just wonder if Elizabeth is an alias perhaps Robert's using a different Elizabeth do you care to tell us this is Elizabeth Walton hi hi thank you not a problem I wasn't sure are there more people there I can't see any interest in the conservation commission coming up next a lot of comedy shows don't go away alright we've heard from four of the five candidates for our planning commission does everyone want to step forward with the motion just in terms of conversation I don't want to make a motion as of yet we have some very I'm pleased to say that we have some very qualified candidates and we only have one vacancy the question is you know I'm not sure where I want to go as if someone has a real strong feeling I would like to hear that does the planning commission have alternates do we consider that you know if you will I tried to look back and ask because I was curious about the recognition and how it reclined the other board and the others didn't find anything about any rules of the selection about alternates well that's like I've talked to building about a conservation commission where their commission numbers are all high and they have a hard time making quorums and I talked about cutting the required seats back and using alternates alternates can be a very effective way and sometimes you can get some people who can't delegate their whole time but they can do a function or do a project so I don't know what number the planning commission is five and I guess I would just say from having served on that board in the past I think it functions well with five people given the amount of deliberation that needs to happen and because until we get to future agenda items about a charter there is some things around interviewing and other things and a three person quorum versus one I don't know what the actual charter is I will say the distinction is because we have a development review board it is not quasi judicial I would say it's a general statement I think the planning commission always welcomes public input and involvement I know several of these talks have been to meetings but I agree it's we're in a bit of a conundrum I'll just note that the planning commission has really needs to have to have to really needs to move forward and so if any of the candidates sort of impressed you as being someone that was willing to help advance that process maybe that would be a deciding factor do you want us to speak on that? go ahead everyone had great things to say and everyone had an incredible amount of experience but for me my vote would go really because he's served on boards, he's conservation active town participant for many years and impresses me I agree with you as much as I don't want to lose him on the conservation commission but I think Roger's point is very disappointed I don't think any of us have been overly happy about a little bit of the languishing of zoning and someone with a keen legal mind as much as I like citizens participation and I think that's important you want to have a mix of citizens participation but if we want to move these zoning regulations what his professional background is his work days he's now retired so he probably has time so I think as much as I like a lot of pieces of a lot of the other candidates I think as Roger said that would sway me to have Billy being a good candidate plus I know what he has done on the conservation commission any other discussion? we don't appoint her to the planning commission I think Amy would be a wonderful conservation commission member I think she has a lot to offer I agree and I'll just say I wanted to thank all the candidates for stepping forward again I really appreciate everything we have done and what everyone is willing to do to advance the town's zoning process does somebody want to make a motion? I make a motion to appoint Billy Victor as a three year chief to the planning commission a motion that's been moved and seconded for the discussion the only thing I will say is that some of our earlier decisions were swayed with folks who were willing to be on the conservation commission and we had even fewer candidates and part of my gut is to be consistent in that way knowing that we do have strong candidates in the running as well so I'm a little bit torn to take someone from one really effective position really effective and present and focused position when we have I think qualified candidates to fill the open division so I'm a little bit nervous about making that decision for our open spots any other comments? it's a nice problem to have someone be qualified I know that it's a nice thing it's nice to see a lot of people stepping up just in general because I know we have volunteers in general and we have two three people who said that they would be in conservation so we're replacing one with three who was with her? maybe it's two maybe it's Stacy and Amy and Billy said that he would continue on as I guess that's my like as the like maybe poster child for over involved person who commits to too many meetings and does none of them as well as I did if I went to fewer I have a little like I was a planning commission chair and I we sit here and roll our eyes about the five years of the rewrite and I got on the planning commission explicitly saying I'd like to make this faster and I chaired that board and I take full responsibility but like and I sat there and we spent another year and there was mitigating factors and we hired an assistant zoning administrator but I guess I have no doubt Billy's qualifications I know him really well he does a talk for the community and I understand exactly why he made the motion so I don't in some sense I completely say yes I just guess I would agree that we have other community members coming forward saying they would also be willing to participate and so I don't want to mitigate Billy's willingness in that way but I think it is losing some potential additional community members who might be willing to to be involved so that's my only you know reservation so to speak I interrupt sure is everyone on Zoom having trouble hearing tonight or is it just is it just Liz Stacey are you also experiencing trouble yes sir oh I don't have chat I know that's no I know I know I know that's what I'm saying I know that's lovely that's our big song it's our big song alright why tonight alright I think we do have a difficult decision to make but it's one that we do need to move forward to make unless there's further discussion alright we have a motion to appoint Billy Big Door it's been moved and all in favor say aye aye all opposed abstentions two abstentions alright we have three in favor and two abstentions as a quorum and Billy has been appointed thank you alright let's move on to conservation commission wanted to just confirm that Stacey has said that she be willing to be considered Stacey is that still true yes please no I have the option of just closing the meeting to be open again I'm seeing it back right it's my issue you wish to read we can do that alright while you're doing that maybe we can just continue as in you still willing to be considered awesome do you want to state anything further about the conservation commission no alright and Amy are you willing to be considered yes alright then we have to we have two four year seats available a year left on a term and two years left on a term so that's four positions and we have three candidates so do I hear a motion I'd ask if we can check in with Indians and potentially Stacey about their preference on what are the positions well first question would be what is expected the long-range our chair is here I've been building it for people for two years I'm happy to answer any questions no we gave them another job sorry need to move on continue you know just it'll be a past care previous because you already opened this meeting and then closed it click previous at the top sorry tech help I'm stuck while they're doing that my understanding is the conservation commission conserves and promotes the quality of cultural and natural resources for the town of Waterbury and the benefits that they bring to its residents I had that back I was just wondering if there was a plan expected to be delivered I've not been reading up on the conservation but I'm applying with a longer range plan I can do it can I speak to what we've been doing please don't I'm not that so about a year ago we did a strategic planning session because with COVID we kind of got a little bit lost to come around this way so we got a little bit of lost between COPE we came out of a lot of work protecting the shoes for the wildlife a lot of work on that a lot of education programs but we kind of lost a little bit of steam and then COVID hit so we did a strategic planning session because we were not sure directionally where we wanted to go we were involved in communicating to the community about invasive species we were involved in trying to put education bird walks in the kids program on nature and migration patterns so we were working on things like that then what we decided to do was sort of do a strategic planning session the thing we're tasked to do is to do an aid to it of community resources and it's a broad array of resources our historical recreational environment and things like that that was why we did the community values then we'll be trying to continue doing those things but to sit down and say what did we learn from the community values Matthew and where is the best bang for the buck of what we could do and I know, I promised Tom that he wanted us to do an education program with the summer camp this summer so we'll at least put on one more education program so those are the kind of big picture items I can take off the top of my head questions for Billy okay, thank you are we back on? I don't think we are I have no idea why so I'm emailing Stacy to ask her if I can call her maybe one or two seconds we can go based upon our willingness to maybe my recommendation would be we have three people we have two four-year seats we have one two-year uninspired I would just assume ignore the one-year uninspired because that's eventually going to work itself out you know you don't want to have another candidate put two people into four hello? yeah, so there's no input hello is it the cord on the hello hello hello oh, bad echo are you there? so it's a mental oh, bad echo oh, is it just repeating? yeah, thumbs up, thumbs up we're going to constantly get that terrible echo cause it's just coming so this is it though is that Stacy's thumb is that the Stacy's thumb can you please turn off oh, that's what it is okay so it's meant to be this one I think this is working I think this is working okay, I think we might Lisa, can you let me know if you can hear us there's no phone number on wait, what are we playing now what, no phone number can you hear me? yeah, I can hear it now okay it just went out as soon as you guys talked to me before it went out all good all right, and Mike you were saying I was just going to say you know you know I was just going to say the one year uninspired I'd rather have people who are invested so to put Phil, we have three people right now put one into the two year uninspired and two into the as full seats, I don't know if anyone has preference so do you think any express preference for a longer term seat okay shorter shorter term okay and Stacy can you hear me she's not on no well we can start with the two that we have so I'll move to a point Amy to the open four year seat and Zinn to the uninspired two years still left for the conservation commission I vote we just say Stacy for another four year she said she was open to serving on this yeah that's a friendly amendment okay do I hear a second second okay so we have a motion for Amy for the four year seat, Stacy for the four year seat and Zinn for the two year seat it's been moved and seconded the motion hearing none all in favor say aye any opposed any abstentions alright congratulations you'll enjoy the conversation I'm allowed to stay for at least the transition right I've someone raised a question and I've never heard an answer whether you're allowed to be on two boards and I don't want to be long term on two boards but I'd really like to make a good transition in two years yeah I think it's two so either of what you have we don't have any internal rules to my knowledge about serving on multiple boards we'll make a transition so now okay sounds good let's move on some regional planning commission we don't have any applicants we also have someone serving somewhere else last speech is serving until we're live so we don't have to worry about that until then yes here's that Stacy is on the meeting it's questionable if she can hear us congratulations I couldn't hear you for the longest time but I said this is they're giving me a persistence test you passed how many times were I willing to lie down with long brackets the issue was on our side we'll see if you can go for about four years did you hear I'm not getting here we just appointed you for a four-year position on the conspiracy commission this is what happens when you get with you you do X, Y and Z I was going for the one year we could have met we could change that do you want to go back and change it I mean we've got her for four years now I mean you don't have to sign you know if you don't feel compelled to do it if you prefer that's fine we require two years notice okay you're going to serve alright I'm sorry for the technical we're bringing a bottle of wine to the next meeting alright amazingly enough we're only three minutes behind the schedule thank you Mr. Chair and we have update on the charter and next steps CDRP we can skip that because Steve is still represented until we come to June yeah I should let you know that I heard from no one about that I can advertise it again separately I just put it on the last post that I made I kind of highlighted it as new so if you want me to just give me that directive if you want me to put it out there again any other planning commission right maybe Douglas Spreason or one of the other candidates would be interested in that position so yeah and Robert Adler so I'm sorry are you giving me a directive to reach out to him specifically everyone who wasn't selected on that yeah no I don't mind you just want to make sure I understand yeah Robert Adler and Monica and Douglas Spreason Doug and Monica were present thank you they should probably get us we all know so update on the charter Tom do you have anything to inform us sure just highlight to the memo and expand in a couple of areas so the one of the errors I think that Vermont needs to see some towns these procedures walking you through them but the real short version is this board had a charter they were comfortable spring before the voters it's essentially a two month process the other interesting point is you may recall just before our current meeting the emergency covid rules were extended the charter has to be adopted at a town meeting you can call a special town meeting under the current rules my understanding is it's going ballot if desired which is a new wrinkle that exists right now that doesn't exist forever the emergency covid rules that were passed was a one year extension yeah no, forgive me it doesn't need legislative approval after the voters pass it sorry that was my idea so that's the voter approval so essentially legislative approval would take place this time next year if it happens so let's get to the end if you did a local option tax as part of it legislative approval, governor signature and then essentially a two quarter period for the state to enact it so the best case scenario for that tax could be January 2025 so it all takes some time to put in place there's over 50 towns with charters ether technically has a charter and there's not a very clear range of issues to the extent you can discern a clear range of issues it boils down I think to unfortunately but this doesn't shock me humans that don't always behave at their best so charters tend to cover issues with elected board members and managers and those are two common themes a recent example I can give is that in under hill a gentleman ran and won a select board race and had a pending legal case that DRD appealed with the select board and refused to recuse himself under hill passed a charter allowing for a recall of an elected official and that gentleman was I think 96 to 4% recalled and so recall is something that some charters can address another theme I've seen is that charters address elected officials that for whatever reason do and honor cannot fulfill their duties so if you said we can make meetings Karen can expound on this she checked a little bit with the secretaries but some charters have a process where in essence it says if an elected official does not attend x% of meetings this select board itself can appoint some charters also have a recall process where x% of the voters can petition to recall an elected official so those are things that are what do we need to some towns still in fact has those predictions don't we have that informally within towns someone's not attending a bunch of I don't know never I've forgotten to the point where we want to remove someone but I know it's been discussed you know people move you know a ton of meetings you know what their effectiveness and you don't have the legal ability to just we can basically resale off I can't do anything correct well then that might be an interesting one to address here because we've had a situation where somebody was repeatedly not showing up for an elected position school board for example or select board that would be another reason to pass a town charter make sure it would apply to the school board there you go could also apply to a town elected official another common one that's talked about and Melissa's mentioned this are appointed powers to the manager she's talked about a number of charters also give some check on that power common examples are towns with police chiefs the manager will recommend a name to the select board who can approve her tonight but also directors of public works are another common one with the manager essentially is the the unemployment authority as you will but the select board has a final say the manager brings a candidate to that and there's some mixing and matching there depending on the towns you know I think an unknown interference causes which are in some charters and then some charters limit the ability of the manager to hold outside of elected office which has also come up and been an issue in some towns fairly recently like if someone went to become representative of the town at the legislature or if your manager wanted to be not a member but an officer in a political party because you can't be a party membership but you can improve to some extent and then one one thing you see in charters that I actually think is very important is procedures for adopting ordinances the way ordinance adoption works now is you simply warn it if there's an ordinance you want to adopt you simply warn it at a regular meeting and if there's three votes in favor of that ordinance we have to publish it in five places around town we have to put it in a time's harvest but essentially if there's no appeal after two months that ordinance becomes law some charters have a process where that two month warning process is in advance the voters get their say to review the ordinance in advance which I think is just simply improvement of the process I think that one's bit of a no brainer and the other one and this is where I think things get a little bit difficult and this pertains to the town meeting day conversation about the very future of town meeting and they're struggling with this I think right now in Morristown so it's an example that's out there if you switch to Australian Bella for town meeting day and your budget fails you then got to go back to the voters a few months into your year so ideally these two processes about deciding the future of town meeting could go hand in hand because I would say that if we're going to an Australian ballot budget process we really should change to a July 1 fiscal year so we're voting on a budget in advance and if that fails we can go back to the voters with time but in Morristown they had a pretty substantial tax increase forget about 20 ish percent the budget failed pretty overwhelmingly and now they're they're going through that process and figuring out what they've they're three and a half months into the year they spent a lot of money In fairness do we have the ability to change the fiscal year right now without a charter or is it required that we have a charter in order to change it from calendar year? I don't know the answer to that I guess I would just say it's something that personally has occurred to me forever and I know Bill Sheffield was very fond of his he had done quite good at doing it on our current calendar year fiscal year but I guess I'm jumping ahead to my thoughts about this so I can wait but I think to me it is important to know what items are you need to have a charter to do this differently and which is us making a policy choice that we could do whether or not we have a charter because candidly I think that has merit whether or not we choose to do a charter but that connection would be something I would want to know I'll answer that quickly I'll find that out and then at the end of the memo I'll lay out the local option tax and how much that could be depending on your choices it's the chosen one that we would to come okay Ella, Chris you might like to have my two cents in on this it's all Tom has several good issues as to why charters may or may not be appropriate I think in our particular case that we should focus on what we're trying to achieve with a charter as far as what benefits that might bring to the town we spoke of some rarities that have happened in other towns that you know the odds of that happening are seem to be slim so to adopt a charter for those reasons seems you know not prudent I would rather focus on it almost seems like the local options tax is the driving force between behind why we're interested in the charter and if that's the case what would we gain out of that local options tax you know in the last couple of board meetings I've heard about some suggestions as to why we can use the local options tax a couple of different times and I think you need to consider Tom's suggestion of how much the local options tax will produce and then how many entities are going to go after that local options tax and help dilute it and it will get and whether or not it's going to serve the purpose you know or main purposes that you may have thought you were after it for in first place thanks Chris if I may one thing I just want to say that's not a rarity that I think is a good thing to think about is if a board member resides for example if a board member resigned six months left in their term it's a different scenario than if a board member resigned and there was 33 months left in their term so I think at some point it's a good exercise to think about at what point does the select board appoint versus call for a special election if some of the three term resides a month into it it's a different situation than if we've got three months left so I think that's not a rarity people resign from seats all the time and the other thing I'd say is some of these issues about human behavior whether it's board members or the manager yeah they're rarities but the time to address them is when you don't have a problem and so if you're going to go through the process of having a charter I think maybe you don't need to have ten pages on these issues but hitting some of the basics can give you some reasonable protection going forward in essence it's almost a bit of a contract I get in the fear and I've said it before adopting a charter I hope we look at it in a broad enough sense so that we doesn't become our enemy you know yeah and I think that we are bringing this up for a conversation upon the meeting so that it does receive due consideration we intend to have a broader debate on it in particular what the use of this additional revenant would be and would be directed because my conversation with Theresa Wood just as an example she indicated that it would have a lot better chance of passage in front of the legislature if this funding was directed for particular usage and you know my sense is that if our commercial community sees that it's going to do something to benefit affordable housing for the people that work for them or benefits the economy of Waterbury in some way that will have a better chance of getting this thing through in a way that the majority of the town proves of okay any further discussion on this point? Mike I'm still as per your first sentence in your memo this is something I kind of wanted to know maybe a visual person and I'm not still getting I want to hear about comparable communities you know what communities I don't know which communities have charters which communities don't I would like to see how they've worked with communities of similar size to Waterbury versus you know places like Burlington and Montpelier they're not we're not looking at the same entities they're different but something similar how charters in those communities I know you mentioned Underhill about firing this individual but that's probably as Chris kind of said it's a little bit of a one-off but you're right if you want to act before things become a problem the challenge in reviewing them if you look at the especially the older cities the charters are really expansive and cover everything in essence that's covered in state law usually with more tweaks and then they've got additional things we don't have like election districts or wards when you look at individual towns that are newer charters they're not comprehensive so they don't try to supersede every potential area they're more they're more situational they had an issue they had to address and EFUD is an example of that EFUD is technically a charter district because it needed to be created so that's really what the charter did so there's a lot of examples the town of St. Albans for example which is a little bigger than us but their charter says local option tax something about their planning commission appointments and I think that's basically it so as you know they have a page kind of charter so there's no real way to compare communities here unfortunately there's no sort of template that you start with so it's not like communities like Hardin, St. Albans, Virgins, those are just I have no idea whether they have charters or not and that's kind of I'm just curious to hear what communities of similar size to Waterbury how they have function with charters and then there's no template and we're only talking 50 or so municipalities statewide that have charters it's that many I didn't even think it was that many when you come in tomorrow to sign orders and you know grab the book off the shelf it's a paper copy of all the charters I was just thinking they're all in statutes and the trick what I was doing right now was pulling Vermont statutes I'm pretty familiar with my whole job there's no communities pretty well and it'd be just but you can take that book home yeah we're not sure what it is but I've been doing little research for Tom the other day I realized that I have one whole book that's just all the charters you could get them on mine too but there's a book right out Title 24 Appendix Municipal Charters City of Barrie, City of Burlington City of Essex Sturgeon and seen open South Burlington and Virginia's Winooski Virginia's does have a Virginia oh yeah brand new Bradford, Brandon Bristol, Hallis, Habendish Charlottes, Chester, Colchester Danville, East Montpelier, Elmore I will keep in mind some of these could have been repealed I'm just reading heading title so some of these like E5 like it was going to say Village of Waterbury and then it's going to say is now E5 I think Elmore just passed the local option tax like that their charter is 3,000 pretty brief for the tax alright this was a great discussion can I make two quick points you and then King I was just going to say I think it's great I think my one can I think just on the time we have to think I think to me there's a couple of potentially very contentious and very different issues wrapped up in here so just I fully support what you and Chris about having a use for the local option tax and to me that's one big piece of it to me town meeting is a huge and equally large question and I have some concerns about those things becoming one political entity together and you know physical year to me is a little more administrative so that could be separate but just figuring out if we choose to include multiple things that that's giving folks multiple points to support or oppose something and if just at what point we have a discussion about what policy priorities are most important in a charter and getting public input and just to me say like the end of this year I would love to see it happen but I think like getting input on that sooner than later to get something we think would be possible if that's the route we're going thank you I just wanted to read it's pretty much the same thing I said last meeting once we boil it down and we get a charter ready we deliver it to the voters they either say yes or no and it's giving our town an ability to govern itself without having to look to the state for every single thing that we do so to me having the charter and looking at all the things that we can potentially do with the charter potentially not do with the charter it's incredibly important that the people of Otterbury know that this gives them an option to create a new rule book for our town I think that's all I got on this issue right now before we move on I'm curious then because it's time sensitive and big are there actionable next steps for discussions and planning on the select board Mike was interested in comparable towns and charters you've been offered the book would you be willing to take on something that's similar and Alyssa just sort of identified two different very different issues one is the consideration of a local option tax and the other is our disposition on the town meeting and I guess my sense is that the motivating factor here is the local option tax more than the town meeting but I would be willing to take more input on that perhaps at the next meeting or running out of time here I think Cain's input is very critical I think it's really important because I think there really has to be an education process because I hate to say there are people who just have the same and they don't understand and I think people need because this is a big change and I think people need to understand that we have to have some public meetings and stuff like that and there are still going to be people that are just not engaged but we just got to do our best to engage people the best we can I agree I think that that's part of the boiling down process that Cain was just mentioning so I don't think that we're going to take a motion on this at this point but we have a couple of things to consider and perhaps we can put on the agenda to try to develop a little more focus on this and identify some additional next steps unless there are other next steps that people want to identify right now okay thank you Circus Marcus came back to us with a response on the question of safety and I guess the question is whether that satisfies the concerns that were brought before us at our last meeting and addressed us before a motion Monica it was your concerns last meeting that we needed to get this response from them I move that the approved Circus Marcus stay in Waterbury for the dates as proposed I don't want to I'll second it with the question of what grant they didn't have and I know that's like what's right they had a list of questions a bunch of which didn't apply I don't get the other one they asked about like a noise do we need police force and he amassed I felt like most of their request that's fine we've made the motion that we approve it so we will approve it my understanding when I left the last meeting was I was charged with reaching out to Gary to get his opinion on the plans which I did Gary and that's the email I've given you Gary's approval all right I must not circus Marcus is original email to you that's I'd like I didn't I didn't follow up on those two questions because I wasn't it was more a question of whether they have met the concerns of our emergency the spirals official they asked us whether they needed an EMT on site whether they needed something else I can't even recall the time I had one but I did not look into either of those two questions my understanding is that we didn't have any policy that said that they had to have that so we now think if we have a policy I definitely think it's worth it no it's an entertainment permit but you already issued that no I didn't issue it this was the question what are we actually as the select board issuing into that circus Marcus comes to water right permits we love a lot they have emergency details they've applied for the 10 permit to the required doors permit no do require a gathering permit no but we do have the big top 10 use circus live production see attachments so at this like we're meeting held on tonight our motion is that we approve this event pending having had this information and I guess I would just love a checklist alone with my second so that we are sure we get the people the things they need when they come to us sorry our goals do you need a motion to approve that is exactly well Danny's motion to approve their entertainment permit we have everything I'm second guessing that but we do we did yes that's the motion okay do we have any conditions but I think it's do we re-second did you second okay I'm second so we're moved and seconded any further discussion on circus Marcus it's going to be so much more hearing none I'll never say aye aye any opposed any abstentions circus Marcus will get its entertainment permit I don't even have that document with me it says it's a manager signature it's now August 100 on 100 this was a relay road race some concern expressed about safety conditions and the fact that it's going to be coincide with the anti-car show and they can't reach back to them they came back with an explanation of how and where they were going to have 100 I wouldn't want to run that it's a relay it's not terrible my wife survived so any what's your disposition on their application any particular motion it looks like they have all their ducks in a row and so I move to approve 100 relay application second motion has been moved and seconded any further discussion hearing none all in favor of approving the application of 100 on 100 say aye aye any opposed any abstentions that's moved approved now we have the presentation of the quarterly financials refer to our town manager I'm going to speak out for a second are you going to come back during the discussion if any board members would like some candy with their budgeting presentation and Karen and staff and anyone here free from goodwill it's audience class they don't look there sorry I didn't mean to interrupt I just wanted to I'm going to go first I can go oh 904 sorry I'm going to go from the top just some of the highlights of tax revenues that number will copy this summer we'll send our bills out but we'll look at that number so it's not a concern long term and I include that interest and penalties which are pretty predictable cheer one thing I started looking at it and I'll probably just start moving on as well the next month but actually having to tax it which begins with usually just me mailing a nasty grant to people saying you're behind give me a call or I'm going to tell them to be from the attorney kind of thing and that will drive some of the interest and get people to pay the other the other governmental revenue which is about $820 grand that's essentially state funds that are not a guarantee but I think recently a guarantee we led or did really insert the numbers there that's the pilot revenue is the biggest chunk of that and if you'll remember my memo from earlier every time there's a local option tax that pilot prop grows a little bit and there's a bunch more so that should be good for us this year and in future years service fees a bunch of things it's our contracts with other townals it's Karen's recommended through her office we're essentially on pace with what we have here and then debt service it's an odd thing to call it that's our tax stabilization fund I'm not quite sure why it's named debt service I presume at some point 15 years ago some of that money was used to pay for debt service and it just was named that so I just stuck with convention so those funds are budgeted and that tax stabilization fund is sitting on seven figures in money so I'll move that money at some point certainly it would all be moved by the end of the year I sent you he watched the market and has those funds too well then you're trying to move that time Tom what might be a more descriptive title for this line item than debt service it's interest on reserves like we you know that? yeah we can just call it it's just use of a reserve it's all of this yeah me too moving down under general fund expenses so the first big number that pay will infringe is essentially everyone in town hall with the second bill which technically is E-5 and then partially built back so that's that's accorded that's on-pays with the budget trend that's essentially up from last year in part because Bill Shepulak had essentially some pay out some pay of work he did but essentially three months of almost three months of vacation time in addition to the work he did and then we had an actual town meeting day which meant that Cameron had to staff the election and we had to pay for some hours there so we're higher than last year but I'm pleased to hit the budget because a lot of stuff was front-quoted and then on the ARPA just moving down to moving down to that the 150 to E-FUD has been sent public safety the state police actually just built us for the first quarter about a week ago so that'll be reflected in the next update fire department the expenses have been pretty minimal so far they did they did a border there with our SCUBA package that was in the budget and approved and a big chunk of their budget is debt service and that doesn't come until well we've paid those you know we've paid those bills now but we've processed those bills so that's coming soon just want to move down skip over land fill and green up which is really just when I'm health and social service so that's the animal control slash health officer slash parking I have one person applied to be an animal control officer and we never lined up so I'm still trying to figure that out something I just want to suggest to think about and this will come up when the SC groups presents the park study I think is that a theme from that study that's emerging is that when you have whole Navy and you have the disc offers and you have the sort of use that it takes there at some point you may need some level of I'm going to use the word enforcement that's too strong a word I'm struggling with the appropriate word here but you need some level of maybe oversight in addition to the volunteers not a mediator but the course is closed from the end of the season now were the people playing over the weekend yeah maybe use the term babysitter of course enforcement is the definition it doesn't have to have a nugget of documentation you're enforcing five months from boom and end of recreation we're actually below trend of last year but the summer is everything we're going to monitor that payroll pretty closely over the summer but in general things look fine there but everything's going to hit in the next few months there really that's is the sign up sir park yeah the sign ups the sign ups are in par with prior years we've got about 250 kids signed up for the summer it's great for the summer camps so it's a it's a big number parks maintenance is a similar story all those expenses happen pretty soon and that's a real challenge in prior years we've had a full time seasonal person in parks we've been unable to find someone so far so that's going to bleed into public works because in prior years we've had one person from our highway crew full time parks maintenance unless we find someone that's going to be two people which impacts all their other work so we'll get to that in highway but that's going to be a bit of an issue going forward and probably a separate topic at a future meeting planning and zoning that should be on par or unfortunately going to have some vacancy savings there I'd hope to have a candidate before you for that position tonight but not the way it worked out we can go back a second I know you talked about recreation I know initially the plan we kind of had a different position before and the fall was well wait to see when you came on what that position might wind up being have you had any thoughts about that yeah the budget gives us funding for one full time position and then later we need to hire a second full timer so that would then be an increase in next year's budget could we add all those costs but not like a plan of a recreation director slash all these enforcement kind of things added on no I don't think that model works I think in recreation in recreation Wyatt is working 60 hours a week so we need we need more help in recreation and I think that's going to drive some revenue in the future too adding on those other things yeah you know maybe in a couple years that could be something someone could accomplish but it's really a separate issue and it's going to be a tough not to crack frankly any migrants tough not to crack so the municipal building that's all debt so that just gets paid in two hands throughout the year and then special articles so the senior center has funding in two places they get paid monthly but the special article piece so the general rule on special articles are that the town doesn't pay them unless they ask where we hit the end of the year and then they're all paid towards the end of the year I'm not even sure about the if they ask part if they just all get paid at the end of the year if they some ask early then they'll get paid a little bit early but in general I'm not super sympathetic if you're if you want it all on day one I'm probably going to say well I've got a quarter of a month or something they do need to send in invoices and my recollection is there's one institution and I can't recall who it is that an exception was made for to pay them ahead of time but everybody I paid in December what is their 20 something usually they don't ask we've got to ask them I have to ask for the invoices they don't need the funding like that so you won't see much of that what's ever happened with their kind of needs for reconstructing their kitchen and stuff like that I have not heard from them unless I heard they were working getting quotes and people haven't done a formal I don't want to say did it on their own but they haven't requested ARPA funds or any kind of support moving on to highway the property taxes come in when we bill and the ARPA funds will get transferred to highway when we actually have those capital expenses and then moving on to highway expenses so we came through the first quarter pretty good overtime is always front loaded and then back loaded not a lot of overtime in the summer plastic but the winter wasn't too bad fuels up we budgeted for an increase salt it certainly has been a while in the winter but we pretty close to the budget we've got some salt in the shed but it must be a really long December we're going to hit that line for sure and then the Corridor we're still buying that in a thousand years essentially yeah but we're done for now so that line is the entire season Corridor's in and gravel I will be in front of you maybe not the next meeting but probably in the next month so the Bolton pit sent us a letter I don't have to see yet but they're allowing us to buy 3,920 yards of sand which is our average usage for the last three years after that they are closed so we budgeted to buy 3,000 yards of sand what I'm probably going to do is have a public works and think about reshuffling the deck because we're not going to get cheaper sand than we get locally so we're probably going to buy our full amount of sand and then after that they're closed permanently after that they're closed permanently now the owner of the pit said that's all you get and that's based on your three year average and I'm offering that to all the neighboring towns so it's fair and I said okay but if another town is allotted 3,000 yards of sand and only needs two can I buy the extra let's stop she said you're the fairest to ask that question I don't know so we're going to see if we can go a little bit over but I'm probably going to come back to you in a month or so and say we're going to reshuffle the deck a little bit live within budget but start about the sand but 3,000 yards seems to be our typical usage and then once that's gone we're just trucking it in further whether we do that ourselves or pay someone but that'll be a bit of a challenge so vehicle equipment repairs were trend isn't great a bunch of stuff that ended up I don't think these are not things that having mechanic would have saved us on these were more made for expenses new tires, busted a plow issued of that nature it's not the way it changes we're doing all that stuff and house bigger stuff that we went through and then the million dollar $1,000,000 $55,000 transfer to capital fund we haven't had those capital expenses yet so we'll make them one of the challenges we're going to have the capital side of that we actually talked about this morning with Celia and what it is we've budgeted to buy a mini excavator we have one now, we'd have a second and for some of the and the thought was we've rented typically for a good portion of the summer it's cheaper to buy it but as it stands we don't have anyone running since that has to be doing the parks maintenance so we might rent one for a month in the summer as we free people up and get some more work done on our gravel roads since we'll want to be doing some gravel road work and pull inside walks but we might postpone buying it because there's no one to run it there's no point in paying $90,000 for a chunk of equipment that sits around so we'll reshuffle the debt there and that might help with the sand issue is it just because of hours of what you're doing or just knowing you don't have qualified people to do that no, it's the hours we use it for the sidewalk projects and then they use it to dig all summer but with one person if you think about our crew we have seven two are assigned to parks essentially full time for the summer at least five there's the regular stuff that has to occur there's the ditching there's the roadside mowing and there's typically one employee that does essentially nothing but truck still on a gravel sandal summer so that leaves you with not very many folks left to do some of these other projects that are planned so that's the challenge so we're still planning on the big section of gravel road that we budgeted that wouldn't happen until later in the season when the park works closed down and that can happen more in September but the parks are a bit of a challenge is it not cost effective to hire someone to do trucking we do that too and so for parks what we've talked about is we hire, through the cemetery budget we hired a contractor to mow our cemetery what do you call it everyone one person bid we took the bid at $44,000 last year that cost us $20,000 but mow cemetery is a huge cemetery a lot of time trimming and mowing so we felt like we didn't have a choice but in other places for instance around here I think our guidance is we don't have the staff to do everything we want to do and so maybe the nice manicured lawn maybe the last 15 feet will be a nice riparian buffer and we'll let that grow and just do it a little bit that's where we can't that's just going to be the reality unless we can find someone but we just haven't had a lot of finding people so I'll come back to you in the future I don't want to say changes to the capital budget but reality is on the ground and that just happens every year but that thing and our transfer is also the way we can control our total expenses I remember I recall last meeting before you were talking about how the Bolton tip also does gravel not anymore exactly are we actively looking for a new gravel pit? and I flat out asked her and I've heard different things about I flat out asked her if she had gravel left to sell and she said if you talk to other people they say she just wants to retire and I flat out said that we're going to do an evaluation and then go on return here the owner wants to not be in the business anymore and that's that there's no loan buyer loan seller there's a potential site next to the Hunter Mountain trailhead there's an old state pit there but they are not receptive to any sort of agreement with the town about turning that back into I can imagine nice I was just thinking about that while I was trying to go sleep the other night we have a gravel pit it's going to have a place to get gravel budget to look at a place to do it yeah so that's going to impact those impact everything Alyssa and Chris well if you're on the same topic go ahead Chris I'm on capital stuff Chris yeah so I had two McCullough boys out looking at the pit I operate out of Tweet Road as well the other day we did go over to that glory so you're saying that the state has no interest in opening that so far I'll talk to you so I did speak to the McCullough boys quite extensively about the future of the local gravel industry it looks pretty bleak they're operating out of the south barrier pit right now they're crushing granite they have a sardine bed and I heard that too but their gravel source that they're mixing it with in that pit is very hit and miss so they don't know how long that's going to last so Minesburg San and Gravel is another location to get there and back is pretty lengthy trek plus they're non-chief and so with all the years that the Bolton Pit serviced the eight local towns around it and then all the construction industry all that now gets forced somewhere else to other pits and quarries that have been used extensively for years and now will be depleted even sooner maybe it's worth getting our representatives involved some of these to start putting pressure on our state legislative body to start opening their eyes to a huge problem that is going to impact not just our town but a lot of town globally in a way that is unreasonable and they need to they need to open their eyes to that I had spoke to the McAulay boys about crushing some of the stuff I have at some point if any of the select board members want to go up and see the gravel pit that I operated on I'm limited to the amount of extraction I can take out of there I was just up there today starting in on cutting overburden back and starting to stockpile for my summer use are you the only one material out of there operates out of that I'm going to go out and look at it's been a great resource for myself over the years but living here in the town I don't want to incur a ton of costs tax wise maybe there's something I can do I don't know say anything you need to walk that walk a little delicately they are crushing Granite and Granville for this purpose right now too well the problem is McCullis simply said you know our resources running out too so it's just a matter of time we should start pulling that scrap off the side of their hills and crushing them that's what they're doing oh are they so they're subsidizing the cutting the gravel they have in their own pit the stuff they're getting from the granite quarry but they said to me the other day we don't know how long that's going to last I was going to pull us back and do the dry land budget review and ask as a technicality did capital funds have to be spent in capital or can we allocate whatever they see I'm just thinking about the many answers would you try and stuff that like for like or just throw it somewhere else so I think the answer is it depends and that's fine and I don't I'm just curious we're not restricted I was wondering if there was like you know obviously certain if you vote it for a bond it has to go for a bond but we're certainly not restricted from overspending a budget line so if we need to spend more on sand for example we can do that I guess my question I'm sorry I didn't in my head I backtracked to our previous conversation about the mini excavator I was just asking if you're not purchasing it this year are you likely to still allocate that to a capital expense or would you or that also depends I was actually going to raise the issue when I got to the library historically the general fund takes in the tax revenue and transfers it to the highway fund which transfers to the capital and also transfers to the library and the sanitary historically the way it's worked mechanically is those transfers were always made in full so if there was a deficit in the general fund the general fund took it on the chin but there was a surplus in the library fund for example the library I would argue that I don't intend to incur to necessarily follow that practice going forward but the library fund which is in a surplus looking like it's going to be in a surplus doesn't need it I think the general fund should retain it the general fund should at least get it later as needed by the general fund when you say those transfers are made in like quarter you're not saying year end so the library fund for example the budget called for $513,000 in property taxes if the library only needs $500 we should transfer $513,000 to the state and the general fund yes which I probably understand it's all the same we've already been over a less personal internal budget I feel really strongly about the food dealers that is saving being transferred so I guess I would adhere to practice but defer to your expertise I also didn't mean to cut off the gravel if there's a next step with regard to so I'll fall out with you and see if we can find a time to get up and take a look at your pit and see what more can be done for the state to start looking at the whole aggregate issue my thought for the next step was I was going to simply write a letter to Julie Moore who's the head of ANR and I think as Chris said copying all the local and state elected officials in the neighboring towns we're going to suffer the same fate and see if there's any we should put pressure on Tom and Theresa to do something it's their community and it's something this is a critical issue it's not something that's mandatory I also have to say whether it's statewide or not is a really challenging sight from a statewide perspective I just have to say I am all for making it a word I had a corridor of statewide significance and so by all means rated to Julie Moore I think it's really important the legislators here and that's I don't want to diminish that all they need to hear, we need solutions this one being the poster child it's really really tough from my perspective just in terms of I think like from the permanent but maybe it will go for anyway I'm not saying don't do it I just wish there was a in a back corner somewhere just gravel so I don't need to belabor the issue but you know the A&Rs turning their nose up at this from environmental aspects they need to consider the fact that not only are they impacting the remaining resources by dispersing the towns that have been in the construction industry that have been benefiting from the bullet pit for so many years but now to haul from hell and back to get materials into these towns it's going to impact our budgets it's going to impact the roads it's going to impact the environment if you're going to be dumping more carbon into the atmosphere if it goes longer hauls there's many other issues that are going to impact the A&R the agency and natural resources then simply opening queries that were once there so those pros and cons need to be brought to light so that they recognize that it's not just that clean cut what I believe we heard last time that there's a new fund for the A&R is considering expanding parking areas for trail heads that are overused used beyond the capacity of the parking so that could be a consideration as well but we need to just I think figure out exactly what our arguments are and try to consolidate those into a letter and touch on most important people in the chain back to the budget moving on to the library on the expense side the library is looking really good they've had a couple of agencies they've had to deal with let's hope the budget side of things that you get through it so it looks like they're going to have a little surplus in the salary side which is nice and that gets to my earlier point about transferring the taxes there no real point in transferring a surplus per se and then cemeteries goes into that parks conversation so we budgeted in the capital side of things we budgeted for a little sentry vehicle if you will, a gator they asked about buying that and I said well I don't want to drive it yet so let's hold off on buying that same issue so we'll hopefully fill that position at some point and then the grounds maintenance is historic what we spent on contractors and there we also build public works time for their seasonal people so we'll spend that time for sure but hopefully not go over and much over and get through there did that com director go through the 44,000 yeah that's the only vendor we had a lot of folks who said they'll do it but they can't commit to doing it until they actually have the staff to do it so so the answer was we'll bid on it when we have the staff so you get through it municipal building operating fund what's not in here is we just processed a bill for 11 grand the heating system was kind of on the fritz for a good chunk of the winter and it's the same system that cools so you know when it was 70 years last week the library had their windows open because it was already in there and it was still chilly on my side so it was a heat pump it's a it's a busted line and the system was the biggest part of it so the $11,000 it's not a lot of labor it's materials and much of that budget is just a debt to build this building in the first place so hopefully the building maintenance site will be okay at the end of the year but the start of the year wasn't great really but overall there's no we're only a quarter ran there from big red flags but if they weren't really controlled it would be pretty tightly managed the capital side of things alright thanks for doing the analysis and then at a future meeting I didn't have time for it tonight and the event was busy I'll do a review of the investment funds just so people are up to speed on that is that one of the features still working with bill on investment stuff on the bill okay update on the housing task force the group met on 10th of January as folks know I was checking my doodle to see how many people I think we have six of nine on finding the regular meeting date and I will let you all know what it happens there's also a really thin collaborative google doc on the website so all the members of it have edit access actually I'm happy to give that to the select board too I know we often like reply all with links so it's a running litany of every housing article you've seen I know I get some mail directly to me as well just so knowing that that's a collaborative resource for the group I did include a note that short term rental was going to be of interest I can read off the list of ideas the group brainstormed if that's useful Roger but I didn't quite know what this agenda kind of was yeah I think that the short term rental is an issue of interest and I was wondering if to what extent has that figured into the discussion on the brainstorm first potential active items there was interest in additional data particularly including info on short term rentals like you were also at this meeting looking at a lot of zoning which we covered at nausea earlier today impact on this is home size short term rental so I would say it was mentioned amid a constellation of many other things I would say probably there's been considerable front porch form and other dialogue since so I think it is certainly at least in my view escalated in importance of interest the second other specific one is that there was a specific interest in hosting some sort of listening session potentially with this group in the planning commission municipalities have taken different approaches but some like planning commissions essentially like we'll put a regulation out that says we're banning all short term rentals to get a reaction to be clear I'm not proposing that I don't think it's a good strategy but the idea of being many people don't react until there's something on the table so there was a proposal about in this context it was the housing task force and planning commission could also be the slack board but particularly with short term rentals some people might have seen LaMoyle did a study and like there's actually very divergent views some people think it's phenomenal some people say it helps pay my mortgage some people say it's a tourist amenity some people say it's destroying my neighborhood and just knowing that those diversity opinions exist I think there was an interest in creating a platform to air them with maybe lower stakes than a regulatory proposal per se Mike is there any update on where down street is with there sorry not one that I have but I I don't know it was their annual meeting tonight which we missed because we had a VCA meeting I would have liked to have been there so the grant application they came here we're going to be a little bit of go technically the town was the applicant so that was submitted last week they were in front of I'm going to get the agency wrong so they won't say it but they were last week or this week they're giving their presentation to the state for their for a substantial amount of tax credits so a lot hinges on that tax credit allocation but the plan the hope is still to begin construction into this year so that hasn't changed that's my second question anyone feel free to jump in I'm still a little bit concerned as to what the status is with the proposed project up by shoot still that's pretty strong isn't it the challenge the challenge we have is and then if I could go back and reset the rules is that anytime anyone comes to the DRB with a completed application to hold a hearing Act 250 water source permit if you decide those are state permits and so the DRB held a legal hearing I'm not speaking at a school here the first couple of hearings the documents were sketch is the word they tend to use and they were sketch documents that are necessarily stamped by their engineers and that's the process they then can it's a challenging process they're going to take their time to work through it and you know you wish it had been a little less of a sketch review up front and some of these issues were addressed but we're just going to have to let the string play out so it's still flowing again that's what I thought it was their last meeting took five minutes because they weren't prepared and then the DRB adjourned because the applicants I don't know I kind of felt embarrassed but then they adjourned and then they've asked for extensions ever since so it looks like they're stalled out my other question for Tom on housing more broadly was just about it's the capital bill right with this daily lesson land transfer and basically made crossover but is there anything else we shouldn't know I'm right now it didn't it didn't so just in this was we passed that resolution essentially supporting this transfer for did it include an amount $400,000 nothing's final in the golden dawn till it's final excuse me Tom is that project up there on two fields that in the commercial zone only the rest in their own personal I believe it's in the room so is it fall year 10 year threshold for active that doesn't apply to housing we omitted that for Duncan McDewall sorry not for sorry he was the impotent sorry but not for housing for commercial no for commercial it's residential anyway sorry it's so Waterbury has the 10 acre for commercial development and it's nine units for residential I believe so it's more than nine units I guess what I'm saying is that following under the commercial review and the act 250 board is going to crush them like that's gone through well I think they're going to try to come under that before we oh sorry I was just going to ask if you had any projected date for the next meeting no it's all in May so I will be a Tuesday Wednesday or Thursday between six and eight could you alright I just wanted to as we did last time maybe take a minute before we head into executive session to look at items and parking lot and things we've talked about talk about pertinent or urgent things to put on the May 1 agenda I'm open to that go ahead one curious do we know anything absolute already that will be there and about like if it's a hefty time it's not a hefty thing but the the emergency management plan has to be approved I know it was just approved last year technically it's supposed to be by May 1 so so great and I think what we ran into last time was that Lori got here to approve it we hadn't lurched through it so it continued multiple meetings so it's on the website with updates you sent it did you just send it to me I did send it to you I don't think I saw it but ok so if that can be sent to us in preparation knowing that the goal is to have the approval next meeting so we'll keep that in mind can we address training emergency management trainings at the same time so the only thing on the agenda already that I can recall is the library they offer an update and what their strategic plan so I don't know what kind of time that will take but that's already ok I'm a brain storming I don't want to I don't want to force it on them because I know there's a lot happening in that world so if someone of the commission does I just feel like it's something we talked about extensively we can extend the invitation since we're all out of the agenda we're just planning on doing this even if it's briefed and they have the grant I was going to say at least put a little pressure on that moving well my question was to Tom Ray we had the RFP for a consultant for the grant that we received for outreach and are they on board yet or not I'll probably sign the contract this week ok because the other I guess maybe that would be part of the question to the planning commission to say that it was interesting hearing from them we have time next meeting more also potentially and some conjunction with them ramping up that outreach process do you want to make the empty also should we have if the board would like me to yes please, thank you I am the liaison now that's what I'll say I'm your MIA liaison and I'm back and please come chat with us so on the next agenda you want update for planning is don't even be right but I'll confirm with you she's going to see if that works for them will that be Billy's first sign I'll be there too and then is that what you want to do the investment fund review you need more time for that I can do that in two weeks if desired but there's some other stuff if there's more important stuff that's I don't think that's so time-sensitive what are some we're getting more important I'm going to do my research I'd like a diorama so in two weeks I'll have a full proposal some proposed timelines dates for Marianne and who is inclusive where's that and then if the agenda is not too full but in two weeks I should be ready with an employee help wow are you going to have the town attorney look at it before or it's also all invented by them what a party what things like every jazz school municipal official employee thank you do you have any further update on the reappraisal mmhmm so yes all my taxes there's a state bill to take it that bill has a lot of momentum so if that bill passes there's $200,000 of funds in our budget that are freed up what I like this no complaints so far plus the $300 of other unspent market funds so we'd have about $500,000 to kick around mmhmm for a second rascal for the cemetery that no one can drive mmhmm is it going to be a problem getting a firm to do reappraisal we're talking about labor for every state's problem though I mean Dan Sweet has well I have some contract Dan Sweet is working with Stowe's appraiser doing theirs the team is in place they would just come right here to get it done so I think we're surprisingly well positioned to get it done I might eat my words I don't trust anything in this environment okay and the executive session I hope to have something different there but if I can just give you all the briefing and do it and not use a name just give it a no concession mmhmm so we went through the interview process for planning and zoning director I think everyone crystallized around an excellent candidate um his current compensation was more than what we had advertised at um and so I had to exceed our budget a bit and our job they had to just to match what he made and he didn't take it and I actually at one point um thought I'd be coming to you and half apologizing because of how high I went to high but I actually offered him a hundred and the answer was still no Jesus it wasn't the money it was the job it wasn't the money it was the job so the last ad was so we're back to square one if you will the last ad was put out at 70 to 80 which we did based on our peers um thought we didn't reach the finish line so I re-advertised it today I had 75 oh I didn't update the line with that so hopefully soon enough we can have another candidate there and get moving do we feel confident about our plan for the interim yeah Neil's covering in the interim and Neil's Neil's covering so he could do anything that would director yes he's got the legal authority to sign permits and he's staffing the planning commission meetings so he's all set I mean I can't go on indefinitely but I can go on for a little while and we can have conversations about that so we're fortunate to have and uh did you set a deadline for the applicants four weeks but if someone applies tomorrow they could shut it down early we'll start interviewing okay May 17 and really move really quickly and the last three weeks I've looked at some other towns and several small sleepy towns that previously had part-time people now and he ran for a full-time person all they have is that one staff person but um markets moved and I think part of the challenge is is that if you work here you're on the front lines and there's some public criticism that can come with that if you work for Centro for Modern Regional Planning Commission you're on the back of it maybe that's your land manager but you're not from the center so I'm going to shoot to a hill development or you know issues that help get you far per se um I didn't did you put it on the lovely cities and towns you didn't okay don't think about it too much so so what do we have well there's ten seconds I'm just going to throw this out there it's a great way, a long time ago now but I am going back to Europe two meetings two meetings you want to skip them yeah this summer meeting wouldn't be too bad yeah just the way travel plans worked it's two Mondays good in the charter we're going to recall you for that kind of thing I'll just stay in Europe then work life bouts so while both meeting dates that are scheduled in August you won't be able to that's correct plus minutes potentially reschedule the community bulletin board I'd like to commend I don't know if you'll ask me because I wasn't in the building but I love that it was just it happened, we talked about it it's helpful and thanks that was a great solution to getting this thing up there I think it was four bucks wow what a great investment sounds like we may have even more than that do you want to just say better connections if they're public info yeah I would better connections do you want to just give the update so that everyone has it yes the better connections grant that Steve applied for as one of those last acts that was the one to improve connections in one very center yeah did you get it I was like we're happy about it with a fake composition right now yeah and RWB is going to move forward with focusing on the Waterbury Center their activities so that will move forward okay last but not least use the convo may 10th 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5