Okay. Andra, I believe you know it's correct. The minutes. Sorry. So I'm not sure where we, where we are. In terms of minute taking. We're going by last name. I would offer to take note since I've missed the last couple of meetings, but unfortunately I've sustained a. Carpal tunnel type of injury recently. And I'd much rather not type. I'm not sure. That seems fair. Sorry to hear that. Yeah, we were going alphabetically, but I think Jesse stepped in a little bit to help during the ratio day. And I would say I only did. Half. And I also would be very willing today, but I may have to leave early for a child. Care. Conflict. So I guess I could do the first half like I did. But I'd rather do a whole minutes. Like next time, if that's okay. Yes. So Dwayne, can I, can we start back at the top? You okay with that? What's that? I think Steve did it before. Did you do it already? Well, I was in a sling the last six weeks. My right. Out of the sling, but it's still not really functional yet. So I. It's restricted to left-handed finger hunting. You don't have a choice. What sort of excuse I or malady I have. Nothing's, nothing's coming forward. Everyone's in such rough shape. Yeah. Okay. So I will. Staying home. Okay. So I'm going to get ready. I'm going to get ready. I need to get a little organized, but I will get this. Get going. Yeah. Thank you, Dwayne. Yeah. Appreciate it. Okay. So everybody take a look at the minutes from this, the fourth. Do they have any comments? If not, does anybody want to have a motion to accept the minutes? They're very minor correction. My student Nala setting is writing an undergraduate thesis rather than a dissertation, which is what is noted at the end. Okay. Okay. I move to accept the minutes. I'll second that. Stephanie, do you want to do the roll call or would you like me to do it? I can do it. So Selman. I. Rose. Yep. Roof. Yes. Dumont. Yes. Breger. Yes. Drucker. Yes. Ravi Kumar. Abstaining. Wonderful. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. We're the minute taking, are we expecting the consultants at all today? No, they will not be attending. And also, I don't think Sarah will be joining us this evening. Sarah. Okay. So Mark, her is absent. At least for the person. Yeah, she may show up, but I don't think so. Okay. And. Sarah short short. I just don't, I don't think Sarah is ever going to be attending. So. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Is there still nobody in the public? Stephanie. No public. Okay. So move on to staff updates. I really don't have a lot. Since last time really it's been status quo of getting green communities reporting in and. Yeah. So I'm going to move forward on working on the application for the solar. Sighting study for the brick grant. So that's kind of going to be the big next push. Cause that's due December 11th. But other things that I'm involved in, I think, you know, Andrew and Darcy or Steve. I don't know if I could all report out on, because there are things like CCA, which we've been doing. And the electrification effort. Our ongoing items. So other folks can report out on those. So I really don't tonight. I just don't have anything. I have a headache. That's my mall. In the minutes. Okay. Thank you. Great. Well, should we turn it over to, to ECAC, any ECAC member updates? Yeah, Darcy. Oh, we had said that, um, that I would forward people the budget information about the financial indicators and et cetera. So that's in the packet. We, the November 9th time council meeting. Covered that and basically went into. You know, why we are going for level funding, et cetera. And the next step is the, um, finance committee come up coming up with their guidelines. And we had talked about that the last time too. So the budget hearing is tomorrow. And, um, Yeah, if we're not going to do something on behalf of ECAC, I think it's going to be, you know, it is a really good time for individuals. To, um, to. Make public comment about. Prioritizing, uh, climate active action. Uh, the fact that it's, it was taken on as a goal by the town and that we want, we. We want the town to keep the priority in mind.  Budget draft. Which I did, uh, is it is in the packet. Um, it's very, very drafty. Um, because I just, I, I just put in, um, items that could conceivably. The items from the Linnaean plan and items from. Um, uh, Other plans that were referred to us by Linnaean. Um, That might conceivably be in a first year capital. Request. So I don't know if you had a chance to look at that, but. And it has tons of holes in it for different sectors that I couldn't. I didn't have any ideas about a potential capital request. And we may not even want to put any of those in this particular year, but, um, you know, We may want to decide, well, what's what is the one or two. Two priorities that we would want to ask for. So they're all in there. Um, In the document that says draft draft. Um, Annual report and FY 22. Funding request, which is part of the charge. So it's just like an outline that's full of holes. So for us to talk about today, hopefully. But it's on the agenda, right? For later. Yeah. Is it. Okay. Good. Um, yeah, great. Thanks, Darcy for pulling that together. I thought maybe we should just report a little bit about the. Um, Rocky Mountain Institute. Building accelerator. Um, the. Team is going to function, you know, kind of as a, just a resident team with Stephanie in on what we're doing. Um, And when we, um, Have a resolution. For the town council will. I think we decided we would want to run it by CAC. But, um, Might be simpler for all if we didn't. Um, so maybe think about that just. Um, Strategically if ACAC wants to be in position of. You know, sort of jumping the gun. On. Making a request. And we could make it just from. The resident group. If we wanted. What would be the downside of ACAC. Um, endorsing it. It's a, you know, it's, it's going to just be like. A request of the town council to adopt a. Resolution and. Um, We kind of are. Official town thing in a way that. We might want to reserve our. Brand. I don't know. What do you think, Steve. I think there's a couple of options for ACAC. One is to endorse the effort that's done by the citizens group. Um, the citizens group would bring it to ACAC ACAC. Yep, we, we endorse that. The other would be that to work more closely with the citizens group and actually have it become. Um, Something that ACAC adopts and ACAC sort of presents to town council. So that would involve a bit more work on ACAC part. Um, But it would have more of a stamp of. Of the ACAC, I guess. Personally, I think that we've got plenty to do an ACAC in terms of what we're going to be doing. I think we're going to be able to, we're going to be able to adjust from trying to metal too much into it, but perhaps an endorsement of something that is brought to the would be fairly quick and easy to do in this committee. Do we have an updated proposal to look up? We have a draft. I believe. And we were working on that last week. Uh, we have a meeting tomorrow, I believe, or Friday, Friday, I think. I think we're going to have a sort of polished version ready. Yeah. So, um, I just want to thank Stephen and Andra and. And Stephanie for participating in these meetings. I know there's open a lot of them. Um, so thank you for taking that time. Um, Maybe we can, um, look to. Once the draft is ready, we can add that as an agenda item for the meeting to talk about a little more. Um, you know, I think, and, and kind of finalize a strategy. Cause I think it could go either way, but I think potentially an outcome is that it goes before the council as a resident request, and then it gets pinged back to ECAC to tighten it up more or something like that, you know, um, so potentially that's the, that's one, another avenue that could, could also happen. So. Yeah, I agree. I suspect the town's council would want ECAC opinion on it. Um, so I thought if we endorsed it even before the citizen side brought it to town council, that might save a step. And I feel like we've done that before, right? Maybe not with a resolution per se, but with a. We did for the school PV proposal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds good. Should we report on CCA now? Oh, that'd be great. Um, I think we're. Close enough that we can announce the name officially. I mean, we haven't signed the documents, but it's going to be called the valley green alliance. And that is an umbrella joint powers. Agreement entity that can we'll run the CCA. Um, the, the aggregation, you know, the actual purchasing and servicing and whatever. Um, but we can also do other things under that umbrella. Um, and the, um, Western mass community choice energy resident group is, um, convening to get some people involved in, in researching, um, potential first project. Um, And we're going to be raising money. Because this wouldn't be something that. Or even if the aggregation was already running through, through the aggregation. Um, Still the entity can do it. The, the alliance. How, how raising money from what sort of sources are you'll be seeking? Private donations. Initially. We're setting up a fiscal sponsor and we're going to work through the Western mass community foundation. So that's where people will write their checks to. Is there a document somewhere or a, um, You know, something that kind of describes the whole thing. Or is there an announcement coming or something or. It will be soon though. It will all be. We're voting on bylaws. In the next couple of weeks. And that will allow us to, um, To have our fiscal sponsor of the, not this is not the JPE. This is the Western mass community choice energy. Right. Um, Segway. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm with you on what this is. Uh, I'm just, I'm just trying to. Figure out how to understand its relationship to the municipal governments and that kind of thing, which maybe is pending. The bylaws discussion, but I don't know if they're, yeah. Yeah. I think it'll be the, um, Very open. Resident group to support. Help with education.  I'd like to do is, is bring some of our community leaders in on the ground floor. Um, And we are doing, and I already started that with our renewables group, which mostly talked about CCA. So we have a couple of people already. Initiated a little bit. And potentially interested. And so. I have hopes for that. But the, the, um, aggregation. Well, We're working with a, I don't know, But the, the, um, aggregation. Well, We're working with a lawyer. Going to get contract signed. Stephanie's doing all of this. Legal stuff. Um, To, to get the, um, Very involved joint powers agreement. Reviewed and then we're written by our, our lawyer that we've we're going to work with. Um, The actual. Inter municipal thing. Great. Uh, anybody else. I just want to shout out. Ashwin for a moderating a great webinar last week. Um, I wasn't able to stay for the whole thing, but I was able to listen in for a bit and thought it was really informative and hope that went well. Thank you. Yeah, that was really great. Thank you. Thank you. Interestingly in the Q and A towards the end, Bill McKibbin, a name check to Amherst college as an institution that really ought to consider divesting its endowment from fossil fuels. And that's Amherst. And right, right, right. Unlike UMass Amherst, which he, uh, called enlightened by comparison. And, uh, Today, uh, Amherst college students, um, Amherst college sunrise, uh, calling for divestment from fossil fuels and also holdings, um, That support incarceration and they got a lot of other student groups to sign on. Um, the, uh, Black student union and, uh, the native and indigenous student alliance among a lot of other groups co-signed, uh, and it's getting a lot of traction and, um, A similar campaign at Amherst college did not. Um, find purchase in 2015, but given the circumstances, I think that this is fairly, I'm optimistic that this may that has, that this has a good shot at succeeding right now. Um, so many peer institutions have already done so. And, um, yeah. So that's other news from the valley around, uh, climate stuff. Great. Awesome. And I think, um, we should just also maybe take a minute to. Recognize, I think our last meeting, it was the day after election day and we were all feeling pretty. I don't know what the word is. Um, But now we have a president elect who by all intensive purposes is got the strongest climate platform. Um, that we've ever seen in a president, um, with a strong focus on environmental justice and more importantly, a strong progressive active group of people that are going to push them to not only do what they say they're going to do, but do even more and better. So I think, um, We're in a much better place than we were even at the start of the Obama administrations, um, from a climate perspective. So I think that's great. And it was kind of what we were hoping for when we wrote our climate action goals that we would have, um, you know, action at the state and particularly at the federal level that would drive technology, um, and funding and all of the things we need to actually be able to achieve our goals. So some positives. Um, with that, I think I'm going to transition to talking about the outline. Um, I have pulled up here, um, the outline that, um, That Lauren shared and I've added some, some initial comments.  Sort of, I think we have an opportunity today. We don't have the consultants here. Um, we can speak a little more freely. Um, we're obviously still being recorded. Um, but, um, they, you know, But on the flip side of that, I think that we all, a lot of us sit in comments, some of which Lauren addressed directly, some of which she didn't, and she probably has reasons why she didn't, but we can't hear from her about those reasons. So what I'd like us to do is go through the, um, the outline one more time together. I think there was also potentially a few comments that were a contradictory. So I think as ecac, we should probably go through and, um, make sure we're feeling good about it. But before we do that, I also wanted to, to this, this out, this question that Lauren posed at the top here. Um, really got me thinking and I know Andrew reached out to me, you know, similarly thinking about how this, how we would answer this question and what this report really is. Um, And so I jotted down a few, a few thoughts here because I think it's helpful to, to, to frame this, um, so that we're not, so then, then the, the feedback we're giving to the outline is, is fits within the frame of the document. So, um, I'll just read this through a little bit. And then if I'm missing anything, I kind of have two questions at the end here. So I think. Larges for clarification. Is it, do we have this document or you, is this, uh, you should, uh, is this in our packet or are you sharing, showing this to us, uh, of your version? Yeah. So this is the outline, but the stuff in red is stuff that I added. Okay. An hour ago. So I have not, did not have a chance to circulate it. No, no worries. Yeah. Um, So just a couple of things to, to, to clarify. Yeah. Just one, but just to keep in mind. Of what this report, the car report needs to do. Um, you know, in addition to really serving as the blueprint for the actions. That we need to address our climate goals and resiliency needs. In a way. Attends to the issues of system. Systematic racism. And environmental justice. Um, meet the requirements of the MVP grant that funded it and it also has to serve as a document that can be referred to for additional climate adaptation and mitigation funding from the state through the MVP program and potentially through other other means. So, so the document will have to be a bit more detailed and longer than perhaps maybe we would we would want it to be if it wasn't serving those two goals of really abiding by the requirements of the grant and then serving as a space baseline for which more grants can be given gotten it also needs to be sort of embarked on the just the beginning of this process of bringing our community into a community ownership of our climate action work instead of just an engagement. And so this document will also continue to serve just kind of service that jumping off point for our own work as well as other work in the town because I think we've already seen the benefits of this of our of our community outreach process. Or towards community ownership, I should say, and you know, I think we want to see that happening throughout the town in a much more integrated way. We're as ecac, we're going to need to use this document for several things. One is to propose specific action and budget requests to the town council and to the town manager that help us achieve our climate action goals. To use this as a document that's going to help us continue working towards community ownership of our climate action work, coordinate with other town member bodies, support policy at the regional and state level, set annual goals and report on those in our annual reports. So all of these things are a subset of these things may require us to take a piece from our carp report. Like maybe there's a there's a there's going to be a priority in the carp report around CCA for example we may need to take that out of take that notion out of this report and put it into a document that's much more technical or use that to reference back to the document we were just talking about for the CCA work. We also need need might want to make other smaller bite sized documents to circulate and translate about certain issues. What's not part of this current work stream but something that needs to be done and that we've recognized and we should talk about how we do this is a consistent and regular town GHG inventory that helps us track our reductions against our goals and built into that is some level of analysis of how projects we are we do implement are reducing GHGs from a quantitative perspective. That's not part of this report. I mean it's mentioned as something we need to do, but I think ecac needs to needs to think about how we support. Stephanie in the town in doing that because you know previously those inventories have been done because Stephanie has been able to get a free intern to do it. And so we probably something either a consistent internship or a little bit more something a little bit more consistent to do that. So, I say all this because I think what we want to do as we look through this outline is that we need what we need from ecac is for the outline of this report and then as the reports being developed, it needs to support our goals. And while everything in this document may not be relevant to ecac you know there may be some things in this document that are more specific to resiliency work that we we aren't touching on in our goals or maybe more specific to the requirements of the grant. We want to be able to point back to this document for everything we do we really want this document to be a secure brick. Sort of baseline for all of our work. So, I just wanted to, to see that up. And just double check that I'm not missing some key goals. Yeah, Ashman, just a clarifying question and this maybe feels like a silly point in all the process to, to ask this and we've probably already discussed it but um, as you mentioned having other documents, like bite size kind of pieces that might be sort of like annexes to this that are but other separate like about CC a for example. Is there going to be some kind of like an interactive town website that people can use to navigate the plan rather than just like a PDF, and would that then be could that then be the place where those bite sized links would live. I don't know if Lynn Ann has the capacity or the charge to create something like that or if we have any budget to do something like that or if we've had this conversation before and I'm forgetting about it but it seems to me, hearing you talk that that kind of a presentation could help to address some of the suggestions that you made. I don't know it does anyone have thoughts on that. Yeah. Stephanie, did you want to just to say that the, so it's that's beyond the scope of Linnae Ann's budget for working on this current grant so they that's not something they can or will do. It's something that we will, you know, we almost had an intern last year. Last summer to work on the website. I kind of thankfully we didn't because the town is going to be updating the entire website. So I think it's one of those things that, you know, we want to maybe engage a graduate student to work with us on developing or expanding on what we already have. Maybe changing the format so that it will do that. So that the, you know, the answer is it's certainly something we'd like to do. I think it's important but it's not something we currently have the funding to do or the staffing to do right now. I will say. We did have a meeting actually where we discussed the website and kind of went more in depth with that and my takeaway from that meeting was concerned that this committee probably doesn't have the bandwidth to manage a website. And, and, and I wanted to, I was wondering when it would be time to question being ambitious with a website, the idea that the template for the website be the climate action plan seems much more feasible and a stronger a good, a good way, you know, then, then we don't have a discussion about what's our website going to look like which we really don't have time to do. We simply, it's going to look like the plan I think that that's so I think there's some legs there if the funding ever comes through. So, I'm interested in us doing something that actually came from conversations early on that Jesse brought up, like, what do we need a 50 page plan for you know, and I agree with Laura we do need the detail, but we also need a community fundraising document, and I see us being able to do that. And yeah, if we could have a website that that housed those documents that and featured them, or, you know, versions of very visually popping kind of summary plan. It would be ideal to have it integrated into the website. But I think we're going to need different versions of it will have some presentations will have fully a static site and maybe you know some brochures printouts about different topics. Yeah, I think we need to keep that. I think we need to keep raising that this point of communication and I mean the town, we know this right the town website is not accessible accessible to anybody. It's impossible to find most things on there and so you know I think it's a larger question about how it how to make our government more accessible in general, of which this fits into. Another thing of the question of what's missing or what additions. One notion that I'm very happy to be voted out of this idea, but I want to put on the table is, as well as including metrics for, you know, the benchmarking the science. And if there's any way for us to kind of acknowledge the gravitas of what we're doing, and, and this sort of. I think like a call to action up to cultural benchmarking of saying, This is the kind of participation we have now this is the kind of petition we want some inspiration. It's more hard to measure but potentially measurable things. And, and I was thinking about it today, looking at this and at what point do we as a society kind of admit that we have a problem and and is this the right place like is, do we need to be more political and careful in this plan or is there is part of this plan. Have some shake it up language in it and is part of is that an appropriate kind of goal that this plan needs to serve is to rattle some cages make some people uncomfortable. And kind of. I don't know. I don't know what the end of that sentences I want to put that idea out there, please outvote it if it's not appropriate but I don't know how to not say it. And I think, um, Jesse, I think this is maybe this first question about the letter from ecac I think that's where we have a lot of leverage to to do that. So, I think we should talk about that. At that point, because I was thinking about that as well like what can we say to to to let people know that this is where we need to move forward and in a much more progressive and out of the box way. But before we get down to that is there any other questions or thoughts. We can start going into the outline kind of with this framing in mind. Yeah, Stephanie. I just want to follow up on what Jesse said. I think I like the idea of you stating something in your letter at the beginning. I also do think that this whole, you know, the whole community leader involvement is going to be, you know, the process that was gone through is going to be part of the document and I think that there will probably be I anticipate some language to, you know, to what specifically Jesse is referring. So I anticipate that there will be language in the document. But I do think you as a body sort of introducing it right up front is powerful. That's just my input. Okay, great. So now I'm moving into the the outline and I thought we could add our comments here in red and then I'll share it share it back with looking share it back with Lauren. One of the things I just added here is that we have talked about and Lauren has stated that we'll do like a short, there'll be some kind of summary of this document that will be a few pages long that we can get translated. That will be much more concise. So I just added that at the top. And I don't know, probably not today is not the right time to focus on what the letter will specifically say but I think we should note that that's our that our that our hope is to be, you know, something we can work on the letter and what the text will be and if anybody wants to take a lead on drafting something. Yes, Darcy. I just want to say that I really appreciated Jesse's comments about what the letters could look like from the town manager and then from ECAC with him. You know, focusing on taking the lead. I don't remember exactly what Jesse said maybe he can say more about it but but I do recall really liking his comments about that. The basic idea was that we asked the town manager to less of a letter more of a statement, a strong statement of purpose, and, and I think that the tone of it is that he is committed. And to something that reflects the town but that it can't be done alone. So it's an invitation to the populace to to join in this and that our letter is in support of that, that statement that was as that's the gist of it it's written in in my feedback document. I'm wondering if I'd like to really lift up the anti racism and racial justice and, you know, some of these other very general things that of course we're committed to but it's really townwide and you know if we could if the town manager would be willing to, you know, say what this process was so successful at lifting up is something that the town wants to integrate into all areas, and then allow us to say, Here's how we're integrating it, you know, through environmental justice, energy democracy, energy justice, you know that those are the climate related issues that, you know, I'm sort of jumping ahead a little. And that I would prefer our climate plan, use the relevant justice terms that describe what we're doing, how we're translating that commitment. It'd be great. Great idea to see you know how far we can. How much we could introduce at the town leader level on that too. Yeah, it would be very simple to, to just state that those are two top priorities of the town, racial equity and climate action. So, yeah. Those are town manager goals. And I think in terms of, you know, I think, as we've talked about before, you know, we want to be careful not to overpromise things we can't deliver as as ecac. And so, so one thought would be that we, we write our ecac letter and then we send it to the town manager and say this is what ecac is going to put in. I would request that you sort of give him some thoughts on how he can make a strong statement of purpose related to that. Is there another entity in town that is working on racial justice and social economic diversity equity issues. There's the Human Rights Commission I believe there may be others but it seems like there ought to be something that's going to work and develop principles and standards that then would feed into every town committee and every town department to guide their work in a different direction going forward shouldn't be up to the ecac to sort of set these broad standards and on racial justice and that sort of thing should be a different group. I believe I could that the new the new committee that was set up in response to black lives matter concerns is having its first meeting tomorrow. And they are there, they're going to be coming back with a report about police funding priorities by the end of January and then by the end of June, they're going to make a recommendation about whether or not there should be some kind of permanent oversight or something like oversight police oversight slash racial equity type of committee. So that's, it's a temporary committee, but it's looking at whether there should be a permanent committee. Seven, seven people of color. I know six people of color. And right now one non person of color. Yeah, I should. Thanks for that update Darcy I've been following politics around the launch of that committee recently. And I would, I would just say that while Steve I agree that obviously racial justice is not the exclusive province of ecac nor are we equipped structurally and in terms of our kind of relative positionalities and individual positionalities to be dictating the ways in which Amherst doesn't municipality ought to be moving towards racial justice and what criteria it ought to be looking to to evaluate its progress on that front. I think that's important not to wait for the police commit the policing oversight committee to set those terms because they have a in some ways more specific mandate and just given the pace of change with respect to these issues and given the centrality of racial justice to the overall approach that this committee has taken. I think that actually every committee should be autonomously proactively articulating what it is doing around racial justice and before any centralized top down mandates come down after all those top down mandates can be pretty easily reduced to check boxes that don't mean that much. Whereas I would like to think that this committee has operationalize some meaningful commitments to expanding participation in ways that are different and deserve to be talked about so I hope that we can make a very strong commitment to represent that work and to open the door to even more work in that kind of direction. Yes I yeah I agree with that it doesn't and it sounds like this this new committee may not be exactly kind of what I was hoping that would be a would have a broader vision. I don't know if I can get to come but I think I see the stuff that we have in our report and definitely needs to have seen through the racial justice lens. However, as we get further down in the outline there are some things I'm going to suggest maybe aren't squarely under ECAC and might be better developed by some other agencies in town. Thanks for things for that. I think that's a good, you know, I think that's a good way to way to think about it, because I think we've been, we've done we don't we've been doing a lot, a lot of work not nearly enough work we've been doing a lot of work and I think we can be seen as a, as a how you do apply the lens it's not means we're going to instead mean we're going to get it right. It doesn't mean we don't still have a committee of mostly white people and it doesn't mean we don't have a lot of work to do but I think, you know, just like I think we talk about the need or we talked last time. It's not about the need for it's not we're not when we talk about the need for funding for staff roles for example related to this work. We're not talking about the need of having a sustainability office off to the side right needs to be integrated and there's the same, the same as true with with racial justice issues right it needs to be integrated in every in every facet of the town. So that's, I think we're sort of talking about how those intersections can, I think we need to talk about how those intersections play out. But if there's things here that really would be better. I think we also have to be realistic about what are these and if there are things that would be better suited to be done by another committee, for which we can provide information to and and push in the right in the right direction, base, then we should do that too. So maybe there's a section of this of this report that just covers things are an annex of this report that just covers things that came up in our process that we think needs to be handled, potentially by other other folks but again this document is not, not everything in this document is going to be something that ecac needs to do. I think ecac needs to, once I think everything we want to do should be somehow reflected in in this document through either the principles or the priorities. I think the nuanced language, for me at least, or the important languages is not. I think that thing is important too. It's the success of what we're talking about and what we have specifically been charged with absolutely hinges on the success of, of racial and social justice issues they cannot be done separately, and they, they will rely on one another to me that's that's the crux of it, and that, you know, and I think it's important to, to link their success together, rather than say oh I believe in this I believe in that I believe in that. Yeah, that's a good way to. Okay. So, it's 530 and we want to make sure we touch on the budget items in the annual report of which this will all feed into as well as maybe talk through some of that priority for task group meetings, although I think most of that is meant to be shared for Linnean but I think potentially at some point maybe we should go over it together as well. Do folks have any specific. Any other specific comments about the outline that they want to raise questions that in their initial comments that they don't see addressed. Yeah, I've been sort of chomping at the bit here. What, what, what I find frustrating in the, the priorities and potential part is what are listed as actions are largely goals. I don't see actions actions have steps that you take from to get from where we are to where we want to be with a goal at the end of it. But thing statements like tackle existing buildings aggressively or lead by example with municipal buildings those are those are goals great goals, but they're not actions. And our plan has to have actions in them, and they have to be prioritized. They have to be prioritized by a balance of greenhouse reduction payoff kind of kind of balanced against effort, also with the racial justice balancing mixed in with that.  So when are we going to get into the action steps things that we are going to recommend that we do that we can evaluate that'll have some kind of an estimated probably roughly estimated greenhouse gas reduction. Along with steps what can we do tomorrow what can we do in six months, who are we going to work with what are the steps what are the obstacles, we need details like that in this outline and in our report and that's to me that's the hard part of this report. And yet that just kind of keeps getting bumped to a future meeting in a future time. So, when are we going to work on that stuff translate goals into specific actions. I'll quickly say that Sarah and I had the same realization as we started sorting through the buildings groups and we, and we determine that what we had to do. We created a matrix for, we basically put together all of the ideas, and we said, if we can't translate this into an concrete action, then it's off the list. And, and so we've been going through and beginning to do that we have the idea and then we bullet below it the three or four potential concrete actions that go with it and then we've got a greenhouse gas reduction resilience equity feasibility kind of rating system that is applying to it and we're kind of in the middle of that and I could share it with it we're just neat we've both Sarah and I have both been kind of tied up with other things and we're behind the eight ball but once that gets. But to me that was where we had the same realization we thought this is our chance. We should just we just have to do it and give it and push it right back to Lynette and say, organize all these ideas. Yeah, join. Yeah, I just say I had a similar. Reaction or thoughts is Steve outlined and put forward I did. I focused obviously on the renewable one but then it also really got into the land use one as well I don't think you can talk about solar without talking about land use, and I didn't see that connection I did. I did some just in those very specific sections did some track changes which I just sent you Laura, just because it's it I can't I'm not going to spend the time sort of reading reading through my edits but just some ideas of some additional sections to add to this getting to sort of more the idea of some more action oriented items. I didn't see anything here about actually trying to not necessarily in this report it's beyond Lynette and scope obviously but you know I suggested an action should be let's measure our renewable energy supply potential.  And how are we going to, as we try to either through the CCA or other means. How is the town going to consider the use of renewable energy credits and carbon offsets in this plan. There are some goals, to the extent that we're not going to generate all the energy we need within our borders. And, and some actions and particular analysis on really how are we going to strategically support the thermal markets renewable thermal and build those markets up in Massachusetts, and then in the in the land area. So that was my, my area but I think we really need to think about, again, beyond maybe this report but set up some method to really establish priorities and guidelines for solar siting in the town. And, and then be proactive in town in some way to designate solar siting opportunities to to build out and offer solar solar site site siting opportunities for developers as opposed to waiting for developers to come in and tell us where they want to put their solar projects. Yeah. Darcy and then Stephanie. Um, I just felt like the, the title of the section the overall title the potential. What was the title of it. I think that that we had given a lot of feedback that that we shouldn't that we should, we should talk more about not language of potential use long term actions or whatever. And I think that that language was changed below, but it wasn't changed in the title but. And I think you all got. I don't know about a week ago I sent everybody the transportation template. I had talked to Laura about it, you know, transportation and we had such a long list of different topics in our work group, including transportation waste communications, public health, you name it we were the grab bag. But so I made, I made, like really draft plans for transportation and waste based on, which are in the, actually I don't think they are in the packet. But they're, they're based, you know, in part on the land and plan and part and part on all those municipalities that were referred to us by Linnaean way back, many months ago that I had made a spreadsheet and compiled them all. Oh, there it is. Yeah, there it is. That's the transportation plan. So I tried to include the the in the columns, the elements of, you know, whether they should be immediate or whether they're they're longer term and what are the co benefits of equity. What are the production resilience and savings, and then what are what are the types of costs do they have capital costs, do they have staffing costs. And what are the funding opportunities that are available for them who would be the lead and who would be the partners and I got all of those categories from the different climate action plans that had been referred to us. This is just a very plain spreadsheet but and obviously it could be made into something really, you know, much more interesting. Concord has like individual blueprints for each action with and all the sub actions that go into implementing the main actions. So anyway, I just, I think you probably all saw that. And we just thought of it as a template for the general categories that we might want to look at for each action. And I agree totally with Steve about my reaction to that language is that it wasn't action oriented. So these are all actions, if you notice they all have action language and each one of them. So, um, yeah, I thought I was going to get to this in more doing trying a more detailed expansion of, you know, some of Dwayne's ideas that he shared. I just didn't get to that so behind the ball but so I'm hearing Jesse and Sarah create have created something that might be a template and then Darcy has this possible template. Do we want to decide what, what form to start with. Just so that we're comparing apples to apples. And then what do we want in the final plan should kind of Cambridge has these spreadsheets. Concord has these spreadsheets. I was under the impression that line and was going to be providing us with more specific actions and I've sort of been waiting for that. And maybe mistaken, maybe it's up to us as as you have started Darcy and Jesse us to come up with specific actions, but can somebody help me, whether it's us or line and that's supposed to come up with the bulk of these specific actions. Yeah, Stephanie. I was just going to say that. I think we had to get through the whole task group process first. That was kind of the, that was kind of what Lauren was waiting on was to gather all of the information. So right now she's synthesizing through all of the notes that were taken from those meetings. And pulling actions from that, but I don't think it hurts as the co chairs of the meetings. I think what you're all doing is great and would be useful and helpful. And ensure that you get information that you want to, you know, that you want to include in the report is in there. So I think, you know, I think it's really a combination of both. I do think those Stephanie to Steve's point, it would be helpful to know. Exactly what Linnean is going to provide in terms of, of detailing those actions and what we should be providing as task group co chairs. Yeah, writing this down. Well, thanks Stephanie. Yeah, I mean, I think I think the way that the outline is presented, there's a variety of levels of detail that I can imagine actually being in the final product. And I definitely just don't want to lose Steve's concern here because Yeah, I share, I share your concerns Steve that we need to have actions in here and I was under the impression that Linnean was going to generate those and that still may be the case but I'm just curious since since the consultants are not in this meeting. When might we Garner some clarity about this. So I'm going to jump in here.  But I'm probably going to meet with Jim at the end of the week and we'll just tell him that this is information that you all specifically want and they could come to the next meeting and address it. So I can, you know, I can certainly address those concerns, I would. So, yeah. I mean, I wonder, I wonder, I wonder if we can clarify our ask just so we're crystal clear about what we're asking them for. So Steve, you said like, kind of action and then something about like estimated greenhouse gas emissions reductions and other concerns and trade offs, but it's in that like level of specificity around action that we might get caught up can any does anyone have any ideas about how we might really lock down exactly what it is we're asking for when we say action. And let me just add that. I mean, I did put or bring that up and that question up at the last meeting and Jim sort of did sort of suggest that that Linnean was not really doing, his expectation was that Linnean was not doing sort of spreadsheet analysis and trying to hone in on greenhouse gas savings specific for different actions and building up a wedge diagram as other climate plans have, you know, have in their climate plans. And so, I think that's the baseline they're working from is that that that's not in their scope. I think it somewhat depends on what degree of details we're talking about in terms of this, the types of actions that we put forward. I think part of it is to is to sort of look at the actions and identify some next steps so part of this is, you know, identifying things that will enable us to get grant funding to do a deeper dive on some of these things. I guess that the town should just be sort of doing in house and that I think it's moving towards like, you know, building assessments those are, there are things that can be done in house, it's just that we don't think the town in the past is necessarily had this kind of a lens or a focus. I think we have a new facilities manager who has a different take on this thing on this, these kinds of things and so I, I think it depends, you know, it depends. I agree that I don't think they're going to do the kind of spreadsheet analysis. As Dwayne mentioned, I, I do think there are going to be some tasks that they might be able to sort of bring forward that will be sort of like an initial first step. So, you know, solar sighting maybe one because that's part of what, you know, what I was going to comment on earlier to Dwayne's comment is, you know, hopefully the brick grant is going to be some of what you were mentioning as an action item Dwayne. So that's kind of my hope so. I guess I'm saying that, you know, I can get clarification from them, but I think you're right in that they're not going to do like a spreadsheet analysis. You know, my thought is, is not is maybe since they're not going to do a spreadsheet analysis I just don't think that's in their scope and probably not their DNA so much either but a list of what are the actions we should be, we should tee up for ourselves, whether it's, you know, that the town can do it internally, or at least we have a list that we can target for raising money in some way to to get a new, another, a different consultant that does that type of work to help us, whether it's through a brick grant or, or these other things that that come forward periodically. Yeah, and I think one of the key analyses of the action is, as you said, you know the town can do it but some of the actions that will be required if this is to be successful will require action by private citizens and private homeowners and, and landlords and people that we have not really any jurisdiction over per se so I think, but we still say it. We still say to succeed this action and this is who is responsible for this action and it could be pointing a finger right at me. But we have to have some town based planning, you know, there's there's a, there's a home for anything that that we say needs to happen. And, you know, the publicity campaign around it is organized by town staff or town volunteers that like who's going to do it really does have to be in there who's going to lead the implementation of it. I, I, I want to say that I think we've heard enough to know that we can expect a, a list of hopefully detailed enough actions to really consider them actions from the task group discussions, but we need more than that and we need to go much broader using both our expertise, the, you know, example climate action plans that that we that they supplied to us. And, and we should just go ahead and do that. So I am. Yeah, so I think that's a good point, Andrea and I want to flag that we started this whole thing out with some detailed lists of actions. I don't think we've reviewed them want to make sure their actions for each task group and those were built built on the sector plans that we had worked on those were built on reviewing other plans those were built on some of the original outreach. And then we and then we've done the outreach or the task groups. I think Lauren has an outline here that's still only, I think it's, excuse me, mislabeling actions, but it's also still only looking at the actions from this most recent task group thing. So I don't think that necessarily that means we're not including the rest of it but I think we need to confirm with Lene and that they're bringing all the rest of that along. I think as a group though we have to be like a little bit more truthful with ourselves on what we can actually do. Because I think from the beginning to now we've been saying we were going to do this and the only person that does it is Darcy. So, um, well, sort of. So, so I think we've got to figure out a better. I think Darcy you, you're the transportation work is a great example the reason why you have this spreadsheet already built is because way back when when we were starting to do this you did you kind of did that work, and you've built on that work so you've already got all those actions from the beginning of the year and I don't know if the rest, the rest of us have, have followed through or had the timer ability to follow through in that manner so I do think there's a good check for ecac here just to figure out like what I think we need to understand what Lene is planning on doing. Recognizing it's not going to be an Excel file with gg reduction potentials because a lot of these are hard to even estimate that for, but that you know we want some we want some more detail we need detailed actions. And then what, what is ecac, can we can we reasonably do and how, how better to do it maybe the way we're organizing and doing it is not the right way to do it so be open for a discussion about that. What we're trying to do here is not on the cutting edge, many other communities in Massachusetts and across the states in the world have created climate action plans. Many years ago. So, what we can do, but what I was hoping Lene and would do would be to call some of the most successful strategies that have worked for a town similar to Amherst, and present them to us and then we can say yeah this will work out this one won't work but maybe this one will if we tune it up. That's what I was hoping for. So then, at least to shorten our homework. I mean, yes, we can go to all the climate action plans that are out there and pick and call from them and steal the best and adapt them to Amherst but I was hoping that Lene and would short circuit that with their experience having helped develop a bunch of climate action plans, and have worked with other towns, what are the, those actions and other climate action plans that have actually worked that don't just sound good but have actually worked and what are the lessons learned, and therefore we could then adopt those. You're right Laura I think we, I feel like I could do more of that I wish I could I will try. But again I'm hoping that the purpose of Lene and is to bring some of that experience and expertise and provide us at least some of that material for us then to take the next steps including those spreadsheet analysis I don't expect them to do it. At least give us something to start with. Yeah Darcy and Stephanie. I just, I think that we kind of had this conversation at our last meeting. And, and we did decide that we're going to come back to this meeting with, you know, looking at our sector based plans and coming up with what we thought should be the actions partly because we want to put together a budget request. But just generally. So, half of us did that. I mean, half of the work groups if Jesse and Sarah are, you know, in process and, and Laura and I did it. And so, I don't think it's an impossibility for us to, and, and to put something together especially if we look at plans. So, if they already provided us the plans from these other leading communities. They're, they're, they're the key right there. That's my thought anyway. I think, I think particularly if, if I really don't think it would be our responsibility to format and, and you know under you had mentioned putting, you know, coming up with a coordinated effort throughout the ECAC to present this back to Linnea and I think, I think we get done as much as we can get done and then we throw it back in their laps and, and they sort it out. But, but I do think I think they would benefit from seeing our lists. And I, you know, I think it's, I think it's worth, you know, I'd like to try to finish up our list and get it to them I but I do agree. And with Steve, in essence of I'm still waiting to see what is being proposed, like still needing something to react to. So that we can, you know, I kind of feel like we are the client. And I haven't, and I know that I think the reality is like they're, because of the doing this the right way. The kind of the outcomes, which is a very white word, maybe is, is what we're all craving and, and we haven't gotten to that piece of it yet so I guess I think maybe we'll see this coming up pretty soon. Yeah, I think one thing that we should do as well as anyway, sorry, go ahead Stephanie. I just quickly wanted to say and not a lot really. I mostly just want you all to talk but I just did want to say that, you know, there's a lot of information, and I really do think you need to give them some time. You know, they just got through the task group process. This climate action plan is not the only thing they're working on. They have other clients and other projects that they're working on. So, I kind of feel like a little bit. I think I would really like you to trust them a little bit more and give them a little time. Lauren is doing her best to start to pull things together and she certainly is clear on some of the things you're asking for. So I just, I just want to say that because I don't think the other information has been lost. I think she's literally just trying to include what what happened in the task group process. So there's there's that piece I just wanted to say. And also I did want to say that this plan was meant to be different in terms of the equity piece. You know, I don't, you know, maybe it wasn't a perfect process, but it was different in how a lot of other plans are put together in this community and in other communities, and MVP program is actually really looking at what we did as something because it's not. I like what you just said Jesse that sort of outcome is a very white term, you know, in doing this plan in a similar way in the way it's been done in other communities there's also really a lack of voices that are included in that process and those actions and those outcomes.  That's just my feedback. We hold off on on the work on coming up with these actions, because it may be redundant and that's that's that's really the question that's the question. I got, I got three hours of work I could do, or wait and not do it. I can, I can ask, I'm just making sure I'm not muted, I can talk I'm going to talk to Jim on Friday. So, you know, I can just let me just clarify this with them. You know, it may be that you're the specific things that you're thinking about and the lens that you're looking at them through might be helpful. So, you know, I don't think that's, you know, I think it's important for you all to do that to like I like that you added an equity lens to the actions like I think that's an important piece to sort of look at as part of all of the other ways that we typically would analyze these actions and these strategies so I don't. I'll check with Jim but my personal feeling is I don't think it's a bad exercise as tech task group co chairs to have that with one another so that you're on the same page. It's just easier said than done Stephanie so and I don't want us to do work that that they're doing so I just think a little bit more clarity. And I hear you and I think we're all in a time warp right now. Well, and so I so I don't want to, but but we also don't want to get to a point, two months from now where we don't have what we need so I think there's a there's a there's a balancing act there. Right so let me can can far with Jim and get back to you all, but I think. You know, I also think that there are things that times that you all give yourselves specific homework that wasn't necessarily coming from them. It's just that you all wanted to do it a certain way and have it in your mind so you gave yourselves that work to do which is fine. And would be useful to them for sure. So I don't know that they were specifically asking you all to do this work. So let me confer with Jim. So a way to be more specific as Ashwin was asking for is to clarify how much of the actions that they will be calling and pulling out are going to be focused on what came out of the task groups. And how much is going. Are they going to provide us with the kind of guidance like Steve was talking about you know what's worked. What have some of the outcomes been based on the model climate plans. They know more about that. And let's let's use best practice and are they going to do that too. I would add and how and could you ask them. How are they going to organize the plan to indicate that the action that at least some of the actions listed are going to amount to 25% emissions reductions by 2025. And I don't know that they're going to get to that Darcy specifically. You said earlier about the whole spreadsheet analysis. But that wasn't that a priority that we had put forward. I think, yeah, well let me. I mean I have talked to them about the goals that you all have identified and I think I need to just confer with Jim about about that. You know, it may be like the first step. So the 25%, but let me just confer with Jim. Yeah, I would. I think it is important to have something in the report about getting 25% by 2025. You know, maybe it's not a wedge diagram, but it's some sense of, you know, across the various different sectors in the town. This is where, and with some backup in their, in their action items of what sectors in the town if it's through the CCA or electrification, energy efficiency programs where, where is it reasonable to expect those reductions to come from. But then what I was also going to add and I'm trying to think this through but I think it might also make sense to think about the town divided in both one municipal part of the town which there is we do have we I'm not sure we do in some way have some control over. I'll be it, it's a relatively small amount of our missions. But then as Steve mentioned we don't have jurisdiction over the people in the businesses of the town so you know I'd like to really see what LeNan can come up with. We're calling from other action plans and experiences in other towns if not so much, you know, technical solutions that we need, you know, heat pumps but what are the programmatic incentives. These things are expensive I mean the business as usual it's just not going to happen by itself. So what's the promotional campaigns, what are the community actions, community organizations, community. And potential pilots that we could kind of think of that we will definitely need some support to do. But we can take action in a pilot in the track state or stimulus funds to to get some money to actually pilot something new that's innovative in terms of programmatic ways of delivering this transition. That's different than just waiting for it to happen because it, it's not going to happen very quickly amongst the large majority of the town that we don't have jurisdiction over unless there's some of these campaigns or outreach or stimulus activities to really get the ball moving. So I just want to jump in real quick about, you know, things like the CCA effort, you know, the town and of itself, as you all have pointed out, we don't have control over a big piece of our pie, right 4040% is the residential sector. We don't have another big chunk as UMass, we don't have control over either of those, but your 25% references that references them as well. So you're talking about collaboration with UMass but then in the residential sector you're talking about opportunities like CCA that are going to be the things that will drive this forward so you know I think those pieces are again those pieces are there. I just, again I want to stress we need to let them, and I can talk about the 20 or the 25% goal with Jim as the priority which I have stated before, and we, and you've all stated before. So, I've got, you know, I've got plenty to tell them but every time people say clarify, you're all sort of saying clarify and then you're giving me a huge list of things that aren't as clear so go ahead Ashwin. Okay, yes, so I absolutely hear what you're saying Stephanie about sort of trusting the process trusting the name, letting them actually put this together so that we can respond to it. I actually had a number of kind of laundry list things and concerns that I was going to anxiously voice. They were very they were very similar to what Dwayne just said actually, but I just want to reframe this maybe and this might help when you talk to me in terms of an answer to Lauren's question about the voice of this document, rather than just listing stuff right so basically yeah we do have a plan that followed a different process. We do have outcomes that are not framed necessarily in terms of how much greenhouse gas reduction we're going to get by 2025 although we do perhaps want to see some language around that. And we also have fundamentally a town that has massive segments of its emissions portfolio outside of the direct kind of jurisdiction of the municipality. And like in that context, what the voice of this might see and maybe what would be helpful to see from Linnaean is a call for the town to support these other sectors in moving forward, even if it is outside of their kind of legal jurisdiction. In terms of the incentives they list maybe there's not. But once they do that we can then come back and say okay. Now that we sort of are the town and we're putting this document out in this document we commit to supporting homeowners and these things we commit to supporting business owners in these things. And I think if we frame it this way will resolve some of our anxieties about it and actually make this the type of outward looking commitment that maybe we're worried that we're not going to get. And, you know, part of I think the anxiety is we're like, hoping that Linnaean will tell us what what can we do. But of course there's limits to what they can actually tell us to do so if we think about this as a starting point for the town to voice its commitment to supporting those that are, you know, people in the community, actors in the community I think that will perhaps help resolve a lot of this. And maybe that's sort of an answer to Lauren's question, at least that's my take I think that this is what this document should ultimately be as a commitment from the town to support people in town. And I'll say quickly, that wasn't Lauren's question that was a question that came to Linnaean through an interview that I did with a private citizen who saw the outline and said what is the voice of this thing, and we put it to Linnaean. Great. Okay, yeah, yeah, even even better right. Yeah, and so it's it's it. I really believe the ingredients are here for this to go well. I think that was a fruitful and helpful discussion. And I think we're all feeling anxiety about this. And because we care about it and we want it. We put a lot of time in it and we want it to be to be good and it will be. So, I think we have a lot we've given Stephanie a lot to take back to Jim and we need to understand a bit more before we move forward so I would suggest that we switch gears a little bit and go to the items that Darcy mentioned earlier the budget items and the annual report. Um, maybe Darcy you can bring up that document or I can I think it was on the work the Google doc right. Yeah, just jumping real quick I have to leave you guys I'm really sorry I just want to thank everyone again I really at the end of every meeting I just feel super grateful for everyone. Buried in that budget presentation is the phrase no new initiatives. Yes, they only comment I'll give about that long PowerPoint, someone stuck in the line. There shouldn't be any new initiatives that's all I'm going to say have a great night stay warm everyone thank you. All right, let me see if I can find. Sorry, I'm having some screen sharing issues here. Hi that that's a comment that I made to Kathy about the budget guidelines that there there is a section in the guidelines. There's some good language from last year that that we asked to just to continue for this year and one of the things that they said was that there that that that climate action is is a new initiative that's an unmet budget need. So, I suggested that we, that we, we leave open the option of just being able to reorganize our priorities. Okay, I'm Darcy, or Andra do you want to just speak to this. Just say that I, I set it up as if it were, I based it on last year's annual report and budget request so I just sort of inserted the pieces of last year's budget request into this one. And then as I said I added added items that either were in Linnaeans that might conceivably be a capital request or things that that appeared in my two plans that I had that appeared that seemed to have a short term, you know, a near term capital request possibility. And not that we would necessarily want to put all those things in a request because obviously we're trying to appear reasonable this year. But yeah, so just started with some and Andrew you might want to you, if you want to narrate this that's fine. I think there's some thought that you're going to organize this process. Yeah, just so people know I did volunteer as at the request of our chair to be the point person on the annual report I didn't realize that Darcy had already have written it so that makes it a lot easier. But if you can see I left a gap so you know we might want to delegate different pieces of it. You can see how how it just says start with something about COVID-19 and level funding. I didn't actually write anything. I think this could be a good opportunity to maybe start thinking about some of the language like we were talking about with the letter for the climate action report I think we could put some of that in here.  I think there's, there's my thought this is not my e cat cat but my thought generally is that there's a fundamental need for us to rethink how we do funding in the future because we're not necessarily, we have a budget that we've had forever and we just incrementally tweak mess with the budget when we have these big goals of racial equality and climate action and all of these other things we want to do as a town. And so I think there's this larger need to not only change how we look at the budgeting but also like how are we making sure that we're going to activate and be ready to take advantage of the funding that's going to be coming down the pipeline for climate and job creation and all of this stuff right like let's assume that's happening like how are we preparing ourselves to be ready for it. Um, I think that's a message that we could could give in the frame of climate and action but it's also broader. So these are the five bullets of the things that are in our charge of what we need to report on annually. And some of it. You know, we may not have much to report on because of the fact that we're still in process. Anyway, all kind of self explanatory here. I don't know whether we want to list the things that the town has accomplished in the last year because they're not actually ECAC accomplishments, but we might want to mention them anyway. Okay, I think we could commend our ability coordinator for her work and other departments that have done things. I did want to just jump in and say to that yes. And I've said this all along, we are a team. It's a collaboration and that I, I really would like us to stop sort of identity. It feels very us and them to me. And I have to say that doesn't really feel good because I feel like the work that I do supports the work that you do the work that you do supports the work that I do and I would like us to think of those things together and if there are things that get accomplished that are all for this ultimate goal. I think we should definitely support them no matter who does them. That's just sort of my take. Yeah, I just, yeah, I was just looking at the specific language that it said measures taken to, well, yeah. I, I guess I'd assumed it meant measures ECAC had taken, but yes, agreed you are. Well, I think, I mean, I would flip that another way Stephanie, you know, I think that you do an incredible amount of work. And you know, we're, I think we need to frame this as this is all of the things we can, we've been able to accomplish because Stephanie is so proactive and hardworking and she's getting stuff done right like this is this I think this is an opportunity to flag that as well as flag the need for even more support around around this work because that's going to need to be a big part of the climate action plan. I know we're being recorded right now but my personal opinion speaking as a private citizen is that we should fire cops and hire more people like Stephanie, right. And to the extent that this document can advance that objective, I think we should make that a thing, you know, Stephanie, you probably could list quite a few more on here that this was just off the top of my head so I'm sure that you know more stuff to add to the list. Yeah, I can take a look. I think it's fine that we list steps that have been taken within the town that our progress towards our goal, and certainly doesn't don't imply that ECAC has been the reason these steps have been taken or takes credit for it. In those lines we may also ask for reports from the two colleges in the university, what steps have they taken, because all the steps even though ECAC hasn't had anything to do with those, they are still things that lead us towards our goal. And I think that's important to include in this kind of a document. That is something that I will definitely need help with. Yes, I think I could give you a report for Hampshire College. There would be others Duane might know who we could check in with for a quick report from UMass. And that would be me. And actually, you might have a contact at Amherst College that could provide a something short it might be a bullet list with a few things. But I think it would be good to document all of those efforts even everything doesn't matter if it's ECAC initiated or driven or not. And to be frank though, with all the work that Stephanie has done. There's not enough Stephanie, there's not enough Stephanie. And the stark reality is that we are, we're not close to going at the pace we need to get to our goals, and also to get it out to you know beyond the institutions beyond the municipal government and into the into a whole community based effort. And, and that's I think where the action plan the carbon plan is really going to be, you know the document that's going to help us lead be prepared and to lead that effort. I wasn't kidding, we have dozens of cops and one person who's supposed to decarbonize Amherst, and like handle all of the new money and resource coming from the state and hopefully federal governments in the pipeline. That's absurd. And we need to name it we should name that like, yeah, I would just say that as I was making that spreadsheet and transportation and waste. I, I definitely had some revelations about how this would all work and the biggest revelation was that most of these things like we said they don't actually require capital costs, they just require staffing. And they, they, and there's many, many of them, if we listed all the different things, you know, I can't even, I know I just started feeling sorry or and sorry or for Stephanie.  And so, yeah, I don't see any way around, you know, like elevating Stephanie to a director position and adding like another coordinator or what it however it would work but we, we needed. It was immediately it was apparent to me that we need a department level or preferably an above department level position, like an assistant town manager position that would be above the departments to handle all of this, because it's multi departmental. And many, many, many actions within one. So, just, just saying. And that that's under the operating budget part of this, which we haven't gotten to but that's, you know, like I just, I just wanted to say that, you know, Portland main has a sustainability department. And that's one of the few, to be honest, in the whole network that I work with they're one of the few. I think Providence Rhode Island might actually as well have a little bit of staffing beyond just the sustainability director. So, just as you know that's one example that could be referenced. Right. So, yeah, I just put in and we, we had had that in our annual report budget request last, the last one we put in, which was I forget when January I guess. And so we didn't ask for department level position but we actually we did, we mentioned it in a in the narrative that we thought that that's what we would probably want in the future. And an energy specialist position that would actually save money, rather than hiring consultants to do all the, the solar siting and etc. If we were doing a lot more solar work. We would need to do a greenhouse gas inventory every, every time we need one. Somehow, you know, we need to figure out how that's going to be done because that's in our charge. And maybe it's going to be done by a graduate student each time, maybe, but maybe not. I just want to say that I don't think there's anything wrong with having fellows and graduate students do some of the work. First of all, it gives them great practical experience, I think it's really important, a great educational opportunity for students. But also, you know, I look to someplace like Northampton, that's always Dwayne Fiden, I'm sorry, Wayne Fiden is always utilizing students for a lot of the work that he does and they get a lot done. So, you know, I would love to see is more budget to bring on graduate students to do work. We don't have the funding to support fellows. We have no zero budget for that. So, you know, I would love it if I could bring in more fellows. The only reason we even got Taylor through the UNH Sustainability Institute was because they actually provided one of our two fellows for free. Yes, so DPW paid for their fellow but we got our climate fellow for free. So, I would, you know, I think that's definitely a budget request that should be in there. Are we going to meet again as a committee before this annual report goes to the town? Yes. Okay. Yeah, so we don't I mean we don't have a, our goal was to get it to them by the end of the year. So I think we have at least one or two meetings in December. But that's a self imposed deadline that we should still try to keep but I'll try to work up a more complete draft and circulate it so that people could have input and then maybe at our next meeting we could make some decisions about actual, actually what are we going to ask for, seriously ask for for this coming year. And if you look at the capital requests above, they, they're by sector so, and a lot of the sectors are just blank. So if you have ideas about those things for capital requests, you know, I included for routine capital requests I included the same language we had last year, which is just to, you know, consider the emissions impact of the capital requests that they're considering with about vehicles, buildings, HVAC systems, energy efficiency, retrofits, roofing, paving, etc. And then we have a few things under buildings.  Yeah. Yeah, buildings. I'm not completely sure that incentives come under the capital budget. But like Dwayne was saying earlier a lot of a lot of what we are going to be thinking about is different incentives for landlords and businesses and residents to retrofit existing buildings. And so on. Okay, Stephanie, do you have any idea about that? Is that a program to have an incentive or is that a, because it has to do with, doesn't have to do with municipal buildings so, yeah. I can find probably find that out from the finance director at just asking the question. I'm going to say that's, you know, to me an incentive like for those types of things are directly related to the CCA effort. And I don't know how you get them in now. You know that effort is moving along and that's to me the likely place where those will come from. From the joint powers entity. Yeah, that would be like five, five years down the road or something. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't, I don't think it's going to come from the town to be faster. Quite honestly, not this year next year. Sorry, I mean, but this is a place where there could, you know, is the federal government going to start rolling out some of these things and how do we make sure our landlords are taking advantage of them. I think is maybe the question that we could ask. Yeah, so I'm looking at the time and we've got one minute. So I think this is a great start. Thank you Darcy for pulling us together. Thank you Andra for taking the lead on drafting it up. We'll note this as an agenda item for next time. And if you can send anything advanced in advance that can be in the packet that would be great. And we'll also look to get an update from Stephanie or Jim, or maybe even an email from Stephanie. And if it makes sense that, you know, Jim has clear action items that we should be working on before the next meeting to let us know. Yeah, well, I'll follow up with him and we'll, I'll let him. We'll talk through how that's best, how that should be communicated. Okay. Is there any public that joined? No, no. Okay. Well, with that, I think we should end the meeting. Thank you join for taking the notes. I hope everybody has a safe week next week. And we'll talk again soon. Thank you. All right, thank you. Thanks for everyone everyone. Thanks.