All right, I'm excited to be with Alice Carolina today So she is founding a movement called the ethical move and When she reached out to me and I looked at the web, so I'm like, okay. Yeah, we're gonna be doing things together I'll just well Carol Alice I'm gonna let you you know say a lot about yourself well first of all hello, thanks for being here Thank you. Yeah, so when I looked at this, I'm like, ah, this is for those of you who have ever heard of B Corp you know sort of the standard for businesses to Do things that are better for like the environment and for society etc. B Corp certification is quite quite well-known popular among Sort of green or sustainable businesses now and like ah, this is kind of like the the future B Corp of the authentic marketing ethical marketing industry So it's exciting for me to be able to interview you Alice before before you get too big for me to interview Yeah, let's hope that one day You'll turn down my interviews because you're too big that that's let's hope we get there Doesn't know I always go to this one and say hey look I was one of the first to see the vision so welcome welcome and Let's help people about the ethical move. You know, you're you're we're just starting out here and You know, I've been essentially trying to to bring authentic marketing to the world for since at least 2015 2014, you know, I've been kind of kind of Raising the banner for this but you're doing this in a very organized way now With a you know future, you know seal of pledge of approval seal of approval kind of thing So I'm really excited to hear Well, there's a lot of ways we intersect with our values, etc But maybe you could start with what kind of inspired you to get going with the ethical move Yeah, well, thank you. That's a it's funny. You should mention B corp. That's actually one of the one of the actual inspirations for it So when I was 18 This is sort of the long Like long back moment in time. I lived in Bolivia for a few months in La Paz And I'm originally from Switzerland and it was quite the culture shock Which I didn't really recognize at the time But the thing that actually really dug deep sort of into my soul was the insane poverty and the insane inequality That were it was visceral it was every day It was in your face in your every sense was basically inundated by this Sheer just injustice and we had already in my family would already already talked about Various sort of ways in which the world was working or not working. So I definitely had a keen eye for it as well already But I kind of feel like that was a catalyst for me thinking, okay, now we need to do something. I need to do something I had already we traveled to other places before where there was, you know, inequality in your face But nothing really like living in it and breathing it every day And so I kind of went on a quest to find the best relief work organization that I could join Or, you know, some way to Join the efforts in whatever way I could And I kept falling short because I kept feeling like well if we build that well Do we know what's actually going to happen after if we just bring a bunch of rice? Is that really going to be a sustainable solution anyway? So I kept, you know spinning my wheels and not really finding a place for myself And then now years later, I entered the online world with my business Specifically branding, which obviously has a very strong marketing You know attachment so I all of a sudden saw this just crazy crazy Use of tactics and all of these ways that that people are trying to shove Products down people's throats and services in ways that I thought wait, that's actually really not Anyway, it just didn't seem like it none of it felt good And it all felt like well, we know this don't we like we know that this is not good, right? And so where where the link is between the two was because I Went and studied graphic design back in Switzerland before I even went to Libya and I studied manipulation. We had my mother teach this communication and so Has taught communication all our life So we had that conversation in our house in our family all the time about how you communicate what what is the sender and what is the receiver's Responsibility and how do we how do we connect and what's important in terms of relationship? between the two and you know feedback loops and any sort of tactics and What was fascinating to me? It kept going with Learning how to use the right color for the right, you know, if you use red for this thing or green for this thing That's how you can influence people I just got sick of it and part of why I ended up in Bolivia is because I actually couldn't believe in it anymore I couldn't believe in being part of the cheat code, you know being a designer that would then Make things that would persuade people to buy based on tricking the mind So years later, I went and studied interior design. I kind of got disillusioned by the whole industry so I left it came back from a different angle and Studied interior design because I wanted a 3d aspect to Design it wasn't that I wanted to be an interior designer, but what I learned was in commercial Studies how to you know, where to put the shelves so they're not too far apart not too close together and what heights do things go? Oh, yeah, and then I did this whole marketing positioning communication course well certificate college as well Where I'm jumping over the place and noticing just all the places where I studied manipulation to the eighth degree like where What are a point of sale? Products, where do they stand? How how does it feel? What is the scent in a place? What is the music? Geotagging being in a bus and and and seeing and advertising for the I don't know shop That's right outside the bus store the bus stop All of this combined just made me feel like I I don't want to have any part of it And I can't believe how much we're just being influenced on Every level at all all the time and when I enter the online world. Yeah, go on. Yeah, I was gonna say I'm getting chills from from hearing you say these things because You know to me, it's it's really the age-old idea that You know that the powerful are always trying to control the masses And if they can control the masses and by they I mean, you know what just like you said communication Right all of us at one time or another are in that position of power I mean even in a single relationship even in the single conversation for example, and it's like it's like the you know The the the wealthy and the powerful They they know hey if I could if I can use advertising or Manipulation to control the masses then I can keep my power and grow my power and and etc. And and of course, you know the marketers learn from those tactics and strategies and think well That's how they got there. So that's how we are. That's what success success is to become rich and powerful And so well, of course, we're gonna learn these tactics so that we can also become, you know, rich and powerful without Without questioning that Goal, right without questioning what this means But yeah, absolutely or what what is actually the end goal if it's not success Isn't it like health relationship family? Maybe success needs to be redefined so that it's not about accumulation of wealth and control, you know But but yes can success be you know, so it's so interesting that just yesterday I was I was listening to a podcast by By Andrew Yang, he was one of the presidential candidates Here in these here in the States and he's he has a new podcast now and he was interviewing Jack Dorsey the founder of Twitter and Square You know the guy with a lot of power But but Jack Dorsey is actually one of the more mindful ones because he he said he said he said he said I think Everything is connected and so if someone else is suffering eventually Either I'm suffering now or eventually I will be suffering to yes And I was like, that's it. It's like that's what success means is to see the connections and say no it has to be everybody It needs to be on the path toward yeah health and well-being, but but please you were you were just about to start talking about the online No, the catalyst I guess was once I had like I had learned all of those tactics and I knew I recognized them to be unhealthy And most of all what I knew about them was that The link back to my story about Bolivia was the inequality Doesn't just happen. It's not something that is doomed or the way that it is forever inequality happens At the moment where we don't care about like we were just talking about don't care about the end part like the person at the very end of the chain I suppose and Not just like Beyond fair trade beyond B Corp I feel like there is a link missing which I actually personally see as the linchpin which is why I started this to begin with the linchpin of Consumerism let's say as a whole to me is the fact that we are completely addicted and We are completely in a cycle of addiction with what we want what we buy what we need what we think we need The feet the existential dread of not having enough scarcity all of those, you know Mindset questions around success and abundance and all of these things. What does it actually mean? We were born to want in this society since I'm assuming. I don't know I think in the 20s they first started with proper psychological tactics So basically a few generations now have been completely inundated by wants and needs that don't actually exist and So Where where we marketers come in is we create those ones and needs it's not that they are intrinsic It's not when I I live on a little island right now. I don't see a store for clothes I don't want to buy them. I don't even you know if I'm in downtown Vancouver I will want to I don't know. Well, that's a cool coat. That's it's just obvious like it's I've studied this all my life and I cannot absolutely cannot keep myself from Wanting things when I see them or being influenced by this even though I know exactly that 999 is a turn price and it is just there to you know, make it look cheaper I still fall for it I can't my I can't I don't have enough control around brain because we're bypassing it with my king And that is where the ethical move started when I saw online that all of these tactics were being used And like in the sleazyest old-timey way possible and it wasn't even covert Like it was being caught like you're supposed to do this. This is the right thing like you need to make your price 297 instead of 300 because that's gonna make more sales and yes I agree it will because you're literally bypassing the functioning conscious part of someone's brain But what I'm arguing is if you can't sell your product at 300 bucks What's the point should the product even exist? Maybe you need to go do some soul searching, you know That is a really good and that's back to like what you were saying about about The actual definition of what is important And this is why the ethical move exists is because I believe the linchpin is marketing I actually think that manipulation and coercion and persuasion is Is is the linking factor that we don't take into consideration because it is seen as something good and Honestly, whenever I I have people sending the articles all the time. Oh, look, here's some more tactics Here's some more things. I'm like, yeah, and they're always touted as positive And I just can't just based on my history. I can't believe it I just can't be with it and so eventually I Got so fed up with it after like two three years in business maybe more I just had it. I felt like, you know what? I this is it's not good and I can be as outspoken as I want but unless people have a reason or a benefit or a Maybe not even necessarily a benefit, but unless they have a goal to push for they will not Change things. Well, like you said, well, I mean the point of this I mean what why I brought in B Corp, right? Unless they have a standard, you know, unless they have exactly they have clear guidelines and they understand why the guidelines are there and the guidelines are kind of like I Think for several groups of people. I mean for one group people, it'll be enlightening like oh, I didn't even know Exactly. No that for for example for for me a foot for B Corp. Oh, I didn't even know that businesses could be run in this way I just thought that businesses were just naturally polluting and naturally back for society or whatever Oh, I didn't know that's like for one group people sat and another group was like, you know what? I've been wanting to do that But I've been scared because no one else is doing it But now there's a bunch of people doing it So now I'm gonna join and we'll be stronger together, you know, and then for and then for a third category I imagine it's like people who are like profiting off of manipulation. They're like, you know now We have to try to try to be better, you know and well and yeah, I do think it's funny I also think what we what we forget Sometimes is the role of the consumer in it like our responsibility to the people that we're making things for or That worse, you know creating our services for our consumers are literally Inundated by our choices and tactics So if we say we care about our people and we want to help people and you know all those vague big picture visions That people have I sorry. I just want people to get a vision that means something, you know Everybody wants to help people but if you say that if that's your vision how on earth do you justify? tricking our beautiful minds That to me that doesn't it doesn't register to me It just seems like and if you don't know like you said there's tons of people that just don't know a countdown is something That creates urgency which is a tactic which is bad in my opinion, you know, that's where we put the stake in the ground You know, we say that it's not a good thing. It's um, I mean, I mean the foundation of it is awareness, right? Like mindfulness. Yep, and it's like without the mindfulness of how is my system being influenced when I see this and Then and then do I like that kind of influence? Do I? Is it is it taking my free will away from me or giving me more agency and And if it's taking away agency from me in a way that I don't you know that I don't like Am I am I gonna do that to other people and it's like that just connection people just don't see that connection And that's why you're bringing this you're bringing this forward and say wait a sec, you know notice what's happening Yeah, notice that it's not gonna create a better world and and this whole thing I often talk about how People forget people people usually we think well. Oh, this is a means to an end like I'm doing this So that I can help people Like I'm I'm doing this yeah, so that I can that they can be helped But we forget like if we really dig into the means in the end, it's like a lot of times we realize wait a second the means Yeah, is actually What's creating a world and the ends like you might never ever get to the end, but the Right the process is always happening. Yeah, it's like how we do things is everything Absolutely, it's kind of like I mean, this is very dramatic, but let's say starting a war so we can have peace You know, it's that that idea of Yes of what I don't actually as a brander You don't need any of that if you have Some if you have some sort of how can I say this if you know who you are and you know what you create and you and you create it well Let's say your product or your service has meaning and has value and benefits the world and benefits the people that it's meant for Then Your you will automatically Have a platform that you don't need to you don't need to trick people. It's just a fallacy It is created by the same system that tells you That you need this new beauty product because you're not pretty enough or you have lines because you're getting older You know the normal life Anyway, I could go on tons of tangents I just can't even believe how much we get inundated by By these messages of telling us we're not enough and the same thing happens in the online world with marketers telling other people how to market unethically because That's what needs to happen in order to keep the machine going Right so this whole cycle can only continue if we continue the cycle so The the influence that we have a small businesses right now online I think is growing Significantly we have numbers, but we're not we're not big corporations, but we're small and we're a lot There's a lot of us and I feel like this is sort of maybe we can at one point You know tip the scales and then all of a sudden hopefully Apple will also get off the 999 train that they're on and you know, I think Amazon has it a little bit But it's not as bad The the idea behind the ethical move was really to create Sort of well to create a badge on your website that says I market ethically I market honestly you will not get light to by me on this page or anywhere else wherever you find the badge and The reason being is that It's actually funny. I just talked to one of my contributors Caroline Who is one of your number one fans who actually was one of the main reasons why I connected with you because she loves you so much Oh, Caroline Leon. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, she's one of our Incredible. Yeah, I know right so she actually Mentioned to me that there are people who Need some sort of ground to stand on to even sell Because they feel so bad about using the tactics so they do nothing and then nothing goes out, right? So it should be empowering it should be Empowering for both sides with the end result of creating what I call a flat marketplace where we just say here's a product Here's a price. Here's the reasons Do you want it and then the other person can go okay? Let me talk to my friends.  Oh another person bought it So this must be a good product, you know, yeah, it's it's it's yeah, it's it's all that is basically engineering Yeah, the persuasion of the other mind It's like yes It's like it's like I better buy this because of all these other signals and not because of the product itself It's what I actually want and need that Have I thought about what gap I'm actually trying to fill with the thing that I you know Maybe I haven't but if this keeps popping up in my face and I can't really make that choice Yeah, so part of part of what I also want to create is actually I Have talked to b-labs to one of the person there People there and we talked about the creators of the b-corp of the b-corp. Yeah. Yeah, exactly So if all goes well, we can be part of the certification for a b-corp as well down the road Yeah, all that to say it is quite a lot of work to create a standard So it might take a bit or a lot of people either way So, yeah So tell so yeah share with us what? Those of us watching how can we get involved? You know, you've given us a bit of the vision of what's going to be possible for this. Yeah, how can we get involved? We actually have a contribute page on our website. Well, first of all pledge to the ethical move pretty simple the first pledge that we've created is Changing all your prices to round numbers Not having any charm pricing and the reason why we chose this pledge is because it is the most obvious black and white You know, this is manipulative. This is not Choose your path So pledge there we are actually currently creating a set of principles around it So it's going to take a different shape where you're actually pledging to the movement as a whole and there's a bunch There's going to be a lot of different tactics that we Suggest, you don't do anymore. There will be very blatant and obvious and clear kind of like charm pricing but they will be connected to certain things like transparency or You know, responsibility all of our values. I basically see in their little logo wheel And then there's a contribute page where we have everything from being an actual member of our team Where you take on a little part of the whole because we all can only carry so much as individuals And then there's we just started Caroline actually just started the medium publication So we are going to be wanting people to contribute with their articles and thoughts about things Then there's yeah, there's tons of ways to connect with us or just let us know your opinion Your thoughts what you see what tactics you're tired of because we we can only see our sliver of the internet We we don't know what other things are out there.  So anything new that you see that you feel like should be part of our knowledge base include that That's so serious. Yeah, like us, you know stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and You this is a this is a very it's a it's a huge vision. It's a long-term vision You haven't mentioned anything about a financial contribution to to the ethical move What is and I of course as a business coach, I'm always concerned about the finances of other people making sure they're sustainable So do you how are you going to sustain it a financial? Maybe you have your own work and and we can we can you know use your work or what what is what is yeah Anything want to say about that? Well currently I'm carrying any sort of of the Tech or the subscriptions or any of the things that need to happen for the ethical move just because I care about it So much that there's no other way We have thought of about a few different avenues We haven't quite reached the point where we where we sort of we're still in the like pledge phase where we Finance seems to be like a down-the-road kind of project So what we're thinking is either creating a patreon page or just start up donations just so we can actually pay the people for their time I think that is my main concern right now because the contributors that we have and that we've had have just put in so many hours And it would be really nice to be able to to at least you know Have their paid work not have to take a backseat for unpaid work And then of course, I am financing all of it at the moment. So My services. Yeah, you're your services. You do branding. Is that right? Yes, slow branding Yeah, I don't really believe in the fast. Yeah, and what's your website? Well, the ethical move first of all, I want to make sure people know It's the Ethical move Dot org and I'm just gonna yes, I'm gonna share my screen real quick so that people can see it just to kind of make a Make a branding impact there So there you go the ethical move WWE the ethical move dot org and you know, you could it's you know It's very nicely nicely built thus far actually There's the pledge right there and you know, basically changing your pride our prices from manipulation prices to round numbers Yeah, awesome, and then and then you know the contribute page has You know these different ways to to get involved. I mean right now. This is the beginning of a movement So, you know, those who those who participate right now can can really shape this quite a lot I would suggest also that you should have a have a have a Twitter presence to We have an account So if you are a Twitter pro and you want to be part of it We all don't know Twitter well enough to be able to do it well, but you have that maybe a call out Yeah, Vince. You have Facebook. You should definitely have a YouTube my recommendation. She definitely So, yeah, I think I think Podcasts as well totally, but yeah That's that's all coming that's all coming and then and then what about your own site Alice my own site is Alice Carolina calm Carolina with a K. Yep Cool, there you go. Yes. Very nice. Very nice beautiful. Wow. That's so cool. I have to check that out I haven't actually seen your site yet. So there you go greater strategy and brand all good as as with every designer I'm completely reworking it right now, but that's you know, yeah That's beautiful. It's beautiful thus far. Awesome. Well, I will put the links in the notes of the video Thank you so much for for your work and your passion. Absolutely. Thank you for your time. Yeah, that's great


This 2016 Ford F-350 Crew Cab Long Box Dual Rear Wheel is stock number 12006Z. We're here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, you're new and used heavy-duty truck headquarters. This 2016 Ford F-350 Crew Cab Long Box Dual Rear Wheel has the 6.7-liter power stroke diesel engine. This vehicle has been fully-safetyed and inspected by our service shop as a fresh oil and filter change. All the fluids have been checked and topped off and this truck is 100% ready to go. Shadow black is the color. We shoot all of our videos in 1080p, 60 frames per second, so if you have HD capabilities on your computer, tablet, smartphone, or television, turn them on right now because it is definitely your best way to check out the quality and condition and options of the truck before seeing it in person. And if you like the video and want to subscribe to our YouTube channel, in the lower right-hand part of the screen is a subscribe button. Click that and then click the bell notifications and you'll get updated every day we do videos here at Summit Auto of our new and used inventory. This one comes with the polished aluminum rims and it has Kelly Edge LT24575R17 tires on here. These tires look like they have probably about, I'd say, 80, 90% of the tread left on them. You can see it does have the Rancho shocks with the red cover there. That's part of the FX4 Off-Road Suspension Package. Frame and underbody looks pretty good for a 2016 front fender, no major scuffs or scrapes. The riot lenses are in nice shape. Comes with the factory fog lights, the chrome tow hooks, lower valance looks really good. Didn't see any major dents or dings.  The hood is in really nice condition, didn't see any major dents or dings on there. And the passenger side front fender, no scuffs or scrapes. Your side rim is in nice condition. And as you go down this side of the truck, take note of how clean the body is, how reflective and mirror like that paint is. We take these HD videos so if you are far away or even if you're close by and just cannot make the trip down but you're still interested in purchasing the vehicle, you can see the truck, hear the truck, and have confidence in the vehicle that you're looking at before you even get here. So when you do get here, there's absolutely no surprises and you can make a smart and informed buying decision from the comfort of your own home. Real nice down that side. In the back we have the polished aluminum rims look really good but we have BF Goodrich rugged trail tires back here and these are the same LT24575R17s and they have just about half the tread left on them, maybe just a little bit under but still decent tread left on those tires. You can see it does have the rear airbag suspension. Frame and underbody is in very nice condition. This one does have the camper package with the anti sway bar right there and the box rails all look really good on this truck. That's where you always want to look on trucks is those box rails to see if they're corroded at all. But the underbody is very clean as all the remaining factory exhaust and the lower rockers. I didn't see any corrosion on them, look really good. Step bars look really nice as well. Does have the chrome tipped exhaust coming around to the back, rear bumpers in nice shape. Full towing package which includes a receiver hitch, four pin and seven pin wiring, backup parking sensors, tailgate is in nice condition as well. Does have a locking tailgate and tailgate step assist. Also has a goose neck and fifth wheel prep package, seven pin wiring in the bed and a very nice spring and bed liner. Tailgate shuts nice and solidly and as you go down the driver's side just as clean as that passenger side. Didn't see any dents or dings. Hint is in nice condition, dually tubs in pretty nice condition and this back rim is in nice shape as well. Driver's side doors look really good, does have the driver's side door code entry. We actually did a video on how to find that if you want to check that out in the upper right hand part of the screen, not on this truck but on your 11-16 Super Duty. Heated mirrors, directional signals on there, they are the power scope mirrors so they do power fold in and out.  You get the platinum stitched into the backrest right there. No rips or tears on the seats, smells very clean inside this truck. Has factory floor mats, auto headlamps, power pedals, tilt and telescopic steering wheel. Power windows, power locks, power mirrors and show you that they do power fold in and power fold out. There's like showing both sides because sometimes they don't work but these are in working order and then you have to have the ignition on for the telescope to work. While that's starting up, I'll show you the telescope does work nicely on both sides like so. And instrument cluster, we have 48,342 miles on this truck, instrument cluster is very nice and clean. Comes with the leather wrapped and wood grain trimmed heated steering wheel, Bluetooth and audio controls on the right, cruise controls and information center controls on the left. This one does come with the six speed automatic transmission with the optional tap shift. This one has the Ford MyTouch Radio AM FM Series XM radio capabilities. It has the factory navigation system on it as well. You can do your heated and cooled seat buttons, your heated steering wheel button there as well. And then this is where your backup camera shows up. Traction control system, turned out four wheel drive, climate controls, audio controls, factory exhaust brake, factory brake controller and then you get four upfitter switches so you can put auxiliary lights and stuff on here and they act just like light switches. 110 volt, 150 watt plug-in, four cup holders, there's storage underneath here as well. Passenger side floor mat and seat are in excellent condition, no rips or tears on there. And the headliner is in very nice condition on this truck. I didn't see any rips or tears, side curtain airbags, power sunroof and home link buttons for your garage doors, security systems and lighting systems. You do get map lights up there and power sliding rear window and sunroof controls. We will take a quick look at the back seats and then we'll start it up and take a look under the hood. Back seats are just as nice as front seats and these back seats are heated, no rips or tears, you get the platinum stitched into the backrest as well. Power sliding rear window with the built-in rear defrost, does have a locking storage compartment underneath here and this locks with the ignition key, you can store stuff underneath there and then behind here is your factory subwoofer.  We'll start it up, take a look under the hood, starts right up, no check engine lights or anything like that. I would personally like to thank you for checking out the video today and hopefully from this HD video you will have been able to tell just how clean this truck is all the way around, inside and out. Under the hood we have the 6.7 liter power stroke diesel, engine bay is very clean, runs very smooth. Once again this truck has been fully safe and inspected by our service shop, has a fresh oil and filter change, all the fluids have been checked and topped off and this truck is 100% ready to go, there's your emissions sticker. I'd highly recommend this truck for make quality and condition standpoint and to see more pictures of this truck or one of our other 450 new and used cars, trucks, SUVs, minivans, wranglers, half tons, three quarter tons, one tons, you name it we got to go to that website right there at www.summitauto.com. Full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle from two locations all at www.summitauto.com and if you'd like to check out more HD videos you can go to www.youtube.com slash www.summitauto. Remember to like, subscribe and share on this video and all the videos that you see there, in fact in a second you'll see a link to subscribe to our YouTube channel in the upper left to link to more F-350 videos like this one in the upper right. Link to this vehicle on our website in the lower left and a link to one of our latest YouTube videos in the lower right. Click those, check us out and we're super excited to help you with this Ultra Clean 2016 Ford F-350 Crew Cab Long Box Dually, Platinum Edition and Shadow Black Clear Coat. Thanks again for checking out the video.


Thank you, Platon. I'm a photographer, as he just introduced me, and my job is to observe humanity, and as I do so I learn a great deal about empathy, about seeing the other. There's a quote by Albert Einstein, which really summarizes it well for me. Empathy is patiently and sincerely seeing the world through another person's eyes. He also says that we don't learn it in school, that we cultivate it over a lifetime. But today we stand at the brink of a new age, the fourth industrial revolution, and as we rely more on machine intelligence, we tend to relinquish our emotional intelligence and faces disappear behind data, and my job is to bring those faces back. So in light of this, I'd like to share with you a story. The story revolves around a single man. It's a story of leadership, tenacity, and a show of goodwill in the most unlikely places. On assignment for the Wall Street Journal, I was commissioned to follow Mr. Patricio Galvez, a Chilean-Swedish musician and poet, a father of three, and a grandfather of seven children. Mr. Galvez went on a journey for which he packed a suitcase full of clothes, but none of these clothes were actually for him. They were for his seven grandchildren. Four of which he hasn't seen for years, and three of which he has never met. He also took his smartphone with a backpack and just a few essentials that he packed for himself. He wanted to document his visual journey. Now by looking at this picture, you might think that he is just a tourist in a strange country, but he was not an ordinary trip. He was the quest to rescue his seven orphaned grandchildren from a war zone.  This is Amanda, Patricio's first-born daughter, pictured here when she was just 17 years old. According to Patricio, Amanda was a very empathetic child, always taking the side of the underdog. Her parents divorced when she was just a toddler. This is the last picture of Amanda with her face exposed. When she turned 18, she converted to Islam, for reasons, as she explained later, that Muslims had not been treated fairly in her own society. Father and daughter began to drift apart when Amanda met a fellow convert, a Swedish-Norwegian Islamist by the name of Michael Scrammel. They soon got married, and by 2014, when Amanda was still in her early 20s, they already had four children. The same year, Amanda and Michael and children went on a holiday to Turkey. She wrote her father saying that Michael was looking for a job in Istanbul, that the family was going to settle down there. But a month later, Patricio receives another text, where she apologized to her father for lying. The family crossed into Syria, where Michael Scrammel became the jihadist recruiter for the Islamic State. I know you think it's crazy, but it's better for us here, Amanda's text read. Now, little is known about the family's life in the so-called Halifat, and it's the facto capital of Raqqa. But by the end of their stay there, they had three more children. As the coalition airstrikes intensified on ISIS territory, Patricio feared for his family's safety, but nothing he said or did could convince Amanda to return back to Sweden. The last picture of her he received was that of an unmarked grave, just a mound of earth where his daughter's body was buried. She was gravely injured in an airstrike and died shortly from her injuries. In the months preceding Amanda's death, the family was constantly on the run and in hiding as the US-backed forces retook Raqqa. In one of her texts, Amanda wrote that they had to make soup out of boiled grass, because there was nothing else to eat. A few months after Amanda, Michael Scrammel, her husband, was wounded into his neck by a bullet, got paralyzed, and it resulted in his death. The children, all seven of them, survived and ended up in Al Hol, a sprawling refugee camp along with 70,000 other people, mostly ISIS family members. News reports spread that children were dying of malnutrition and disease in Al Hol, and Patricio knew that he had to act fast if he wanted to save his grandchildren. Still in mourning over the loss of his daughter and eager to atone for her death, Patricio pled with the Swedish authorities, asking them to help him rescue the grandchildren, but the government response was dispassionate. The situation is complicated both legally and in terms of security, the government email read. So Patricio decided he could no longer wanted to wait for his government's action. He boarded an airplane to Erbil, Iraq, and drove to the city nearest to the border, to Dohuk, with an intention to cross into Syria as soon as possible. For two days in Dohuk, the border between Syria and Iraq over the Euphrates River was shut down due to heavy rainfall. Stuck in his hotel room, Patricio grew increasingly anxious. Before this journey for which he took out all his savings, he has never set foot in the Middle East. The morning after the two days when the border reopened, Patricio spent hours getting processed for entry, and then finally he took a two-minute bus ride, just a two-minute bus ride, over the overflowing bridge, and he was in Syria. On the other side of the border, this inconspicuous city of Kamishle, mainly controlled by the Syrian Democratic Forces, which defeated ISIS, would be his base as he struggled to reunite with his grandchildren. Patricio learned that his youngest grandson, Muhammad, one-year-old Muhammad, was hospitalized in Hasaka Hospital with malnutrition and lung infection. The hospital was in the Christian area of the city, and security was very precarious there. It was mainly controlled by the Syrian regime forces, and Patricio did not have a visa for Syria. When he came to the hospital and reached the infirmary floor, he collapsed on the bench, crying. He has never seen Muhammad before. He only had a picture of the baby on his phone, on his smartphone, which he kept showing to the nurses, Have you seen this baby? Where can I find him? He kept asking. Muhammad was right in front of him, but he had trouble recognizing the child, lined up in a row of cribs with other babies of ISIS fighters in them. When he finally identified Muhammad by his whiff of blonde hair, he picked him up and cradled him in his arms. He spoke softly to the boy in Swedish. He is so small, so small, he kept repeating. Muhammad at age one was too frail to hold up his neck and head. Blue veins pulsated under his translucent skin. He was nimble with malnourishment. Shortly after this moment, the local security forces urged Patricio to leave the hospital. He set out to reunite with the rest of his grandchildren. But access to Al-Hol camp was shut down that week due to a security incident. So he had to spend hours in the various offices of security chiefs begging for access in spite of the lockdown. He was in a very difficult situation because he had to rely on empathy and support of the very same people who fought an enemy organization which his daughter had joined. Access was finally granted, but for the grandfather alone, we were not allowed to accompany him into the camp. This is Patricio's first family picture with all seven grandchildren together. He brought the children food which they devoured. If they spend any more months or days in this camp, I think they will die, he said. Just that spring alone, 250 people died in Al-Hol because of malnutrition and disease. Patricio was distraught on the way back from Syria to Iraq. The uncertainty was crushing him. He feared for the lives of his grandchildren. He made phone calls to the Chilean and Swedish consulates in Iraq, pressuring them for an urgent humanitarian action that his children's lives were at stake while the world was watching. So the authorities finally caved in. The Chileans cast a vote in a parliament where unanimously they voted in favor of the children to be brought to Chile. Following the Chilean vote, the Swedes reassured Patricio that they will now begin negotiations for their children repatriation back to Sweden. Patricio was adamant about staying in Iraq and not living without his grandchildren. With the help of his friends, he ran out of all his money by then. He got a large hotel room with six beds. He bought toys and shoes and clothes for the children. He stacked up the cabinets with formula for baby Muhammad. He was expecting his children to arrive any moment and he waited four weeks in an empty hotel room. The children arrived abruptly with a phone call from the Swedish government telling Patricio to pick them up within three hours. The reunion was bittersweet. The children cried for their mother. They were, you know, their stomachs were upset. Their heads were shaved to prevent lies. Their faces were sunburned. The oldest boy, Ibrahim, kept making colorless drawings of his memories of war. He drew tanks and helicopters. Fallen soldiers, which he called Mujahideen. And flags with the upside down smiley faces, which he called Jajadu, which means enemy army in Arabic. It was chaotic. Two of the girls contracted chicken pox at the camp. They were feverish and refused to eat. The room smelled of diapers and vomit. For a week, the family was not allowed to leave the hotel room as their documents were being processed for travel. Patricio was exhausted. Finally, at the end of the week, he received a phone call from the Swedish government saying that the documents are ready and the family had to leave on the same day. They flew home via Frankfurt. Patricio's friend Gorky and Swedish volunteer Beatrice joined to help with the kids. Struggling to get seven kids out of bed at 5 a.m., they forgot diapers and had to improvise out of paper napkins later. They finally arrived in Frankfurt Airport at the gate. People recognized Patricio. Strangers, random people, they walked up to the group and they hugged them and they congratulated them. The airline pilot gave them a bag of toys for the kids. In the last two days, Patricio's friends collected $9,000 in a crowdfunding campaign to help finance the flights. On the short flight from Frankfurt to Gothenburg, the children were at peace. They were playing quietly. They perhaps sensed the end of their arduous journey. Against all odds, their grandfather managed to take them back home to safety. As the plane descended to land, Patricio tried to soothe Ibrahim's earache. Just tried to swallow, he told them, and then he pointed to the window and said, we are almost home. As the plane landed, Patricio collapsed with tears of relief. His friends clapped their hands with joy and other passengers joined in jubilation. The family was met by police in the airport and escorted to a special section where the social workers were ready to take them to a safe home. Outside of France, Patricio is the first man in Europe who managed to repatriate ISIS family members. Public opinion was never on his side. Swedish poll results showed that most people did not want to see children of jihadists brought back home. Thanks to Patricio, this grandfather's efforts, these seven children now have a chance for a normal life. But today, we have 28,000 children still trapped in squalid refugee camps and detention centers of northeastern Syria. Enduring in human conditions, having lived through what no child should live through under ISIS, they continue living amidst disease and violence. Their wounds of war, their emotional traumas are festering instead of healing. The world has decided to brand them as children of ISIS, a stigma like no other in our day. But they themselves have not committed any crime. Yet they're punished by association and their governments are violating their basic human rights. The vast majority of these children are 20,000 of them are Iraqi and Syrian children like this Yazidi boy born to a mother who was kidnapped, enslaved and raped by ISIS. She was forced to abandon him due to the stigma brought upon her in her community. He now lives in an orphanage in Syria where local administration is protecting his identity. The rest of the children, 8,000 of them, are citizens of 60 countries of the world, 60 countries. It's important to note that some of these countries are the same western governments that championed human rights, that signed up to the Convention on the Rights of the Child 30 years ago. Al-Hol, this camp, is a glaring example of how these governments are now failing to uphold these rights. Now some countries are taking steps towards repatriation of their citizens, but many reasons such as security risks, political complications, you know, lack of legal framework. But all those are solvable issues compared to the fact that these children are trapped in an environment of violence and radicalization. And more than half of them are under the age of five.  I went to the foreign citizens annex of the Al-Hol camp in piercing cold wind. Women of different nations surrounded me, asking me about repatriation if I knew anything about it, about the plan. In an instance that evoked the tragedies of Second World War, one Russian mother came up to me and said, let them take my children if they don't want to take me. Okay? There are no clinics or hospitals in Al-Hol. Children die of cold and malnourishment. Murders are committed. Courts are upheld. Corporal punishments are administered.   This is a major humanitarian disaster which the world has been ignoring for far too long. Rejected by their societies, these women and children will pose a far greater security risk one day to the world. Just think about it. It's dangerous. Because their state perpetuates the idea, the narrative of victimhood upon which some of the most radical ideologies such as ISIS, violent ideologies, are based, you know, one day these vulnerable women and children will join the next call for war. They will be too vulnerable and they will be exploited in this call for war. The call for war that will be fueled by the blatant human injustices committed against them. Thank you.


I certainly appreciate this. You might be interested that on ADC yesterday, we taped a mic half of a half hour bit for Medicare, which ADC is putting on Sunday afternoon. Oh, I'll watch it. I'll watch it. Going on to the next step. You remember what program it's on, what they call it? It's something in issues. Yeah, issues in issues. Issues in issues. For Sundays. For Sunday afternoon. If you'd be interested, first they had to expose an annus of the ANA to take the other half of the program. And when he found that I was going to do the other half, he or the ANA withdrew it. And they said that they didn't want the country to get the impression that the medical profession was split on this issue. And then they got, ADC got son of a tower of Texas. And he called him, this was taped yesterday afternoon. Then when a tower called up, ADC yesterday morning and said that Texas was a hamble and that he couldn't come up to do it. And they finally got Congressman Curtis and he was doing it some time today. Well, that is very, very interesting. And I'm so grateful to you for doing it. And I want to thank you again for your wonderful help in the campaign. Thanks for calling. And I'll try to be worthy of your confidence. I've got great confidence. Thank you so much.


So thank you for joining us. My name is Teresa Brazen and I am Senior Director of Professional Education. I have with me today a panel of people who are really intelligent, experienced women who have been in leadership positions for a long time. It's a really interesting perspective to share. And I think I'll do quick introductions of everyone. And then I want to do a little bit of framing for the conversation that we're going to have. And then I think we'll do a lot of the talking and I'm going to ask some questions. So first of all, I have here, this is Rima Dewan. She's Corporate Director of Technical Services and Interiors at Tash Hotel. She has 16 years of experience in hospitality type services and design. And she's a very BV resume. She has played a key role in crafting immersive guest experiences and developing and implementing strategic design robots to strengthen positioning of Tash hotel. Impressive woman number two, Sujitha Tarnath. She's CEO of Sujitha Tarnath at Sakai Solutions. She has been 32 years in high tech and IT and recently decided to make a shift and become an entrepreneur. And so Sakai Solutions is a research-based content-driven tech-enabled platform specifically for women. And she has an engineering background and also this very smart woman, this doctorate in cognitive social structures. Mary Warby. She's head of design transformation at VPPA. And she's coming all the way, she's putting in Madrid right now so she put the, right? So she flew in for this panel earlier talk. She has 20 years of experience in banking, education, publishing, e-commerce, and games. She's led design, research, and strategy teams. She has an MFA and new media from the Academy of Art at San Francisco an MA in international relations from Columbia University in New York. She's also lived in the United States, Europe, Russia, and India for those years. Deepa Bachu. She's CEO and founder of Pensar which is a design strategy and innovation consulting firm. She has 20 years of experience at large, multi-national tech startups. She's led design, innovation, and product management. She helps to pioneer design thinking and into it. She, and in fact a project that she led there became part of a Harvard Business Review case study, there was a case study about it. And it was one of their top 10 innovation must-reads. Next to her is Sue Cooper, my friend and sort of former boss. She's co-founder of Cooper along with her husband, Alan. What Alan Cooper has known for pioneering design practices. Sue really, I hope you're okay with me saying this but build the company. And they, she did that for 25 years. So, knows a lot about building companies. And in particular, and I can attest to this, she really focused on fostering a culture that supports and powers and develops creative leadership in the people that work in the organization. And Hiarji was a marketing executive at Logitech and Digital Research. Last but not least, for me and Maggie, she's the GM of digital development at Shell and DF. She has 20 years of global experience in R&D and building technology organizations and developing new products. She has a master's in software engineering from Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago. And she, like all of these women, is a big champion for women in technology.  And I want to start by asking you to imagine that you are going to have to give a talk at a conference like this one. You have to create it, figure out what it's going to be, reverse for it. And you're going to do that with a partner. And that partner is someone who's different from you. They are of another gender, the opposite gender of you. Maybe they come from a place like Russia. So they also have a different cultural background. So what do you think the impact of just that knowledge would have on what you would bring? Well, there is a lot of research and there is a large body of research that is from organizational scientists, psychologists, social scientists, economists that tell us that the impact just of knowing that you would work with someone who's different from you would trigger you to work harder to prepare better because you would anticipate that you don't come from the same point of view. You anticipate that, it changes the way that they get, it changes the way that they work. The other thing that's really interesting is that if this partner were to share an idea with you you would actually think that that idea was more novel than someone of your same gender and cultural background. They share the exact same idea. And what's interesting about that is that it would probably broaden your own thinking. It has that effect. It causes us essentially to be more creative when we work with people who are different from us. So why is this important? This is really important to design and to technology because we are all in the business of solving problems together. Big complex problems and they're becoming more and more complex, the world gets more complex. And those problems benefit from diversity of thinking. So that's kind of the premise of this conversation where we're going ahead. Is that diversity of thinking is a good thing, not only for ethically and culturally but also because it gets us to do better work. It causes that within us. So that all sounds great. This is not a new conversation. There are a lot of... I've actually met a number of women since I've been here who have been on panels about women in leadership. This is a conversation that's been happening in the United States. Things are changing. They're not completely changed. In India, my first day here, I saw three different billboards about educated girls. What is it? Would girls read in India? I think it was the tagline, whatever. And there is some recent research that says that child marriage has dropped significantly. And in fact, in Southeast Asia as a whole over the last 10 years, it went from 50% to 30% in large part because of the progress in India. So change is happening. On the other hand, it's not totally changed here and it's also not totally changed in the United States. India is unfortunately the third lowest ranked in the world for women in senior leadership roles in the world. And it's been that way for the last three years. And of the organizations that were surveyed, this is from the Economic Times, 41% of them have no women in leadership positions. So we go back to diversity is good for innovation. Diversity is good for our collective work. That's not a great statistic. In the United States, women interestingly have more education than men. They have more higher degrees across the board. But when you look at what's happening in leadership, you look at all the companies that are in the S&P 1500, 18% of board seats are women. 25% of executive management level goals are women, 25%. The women are more educated, but they're not actually in leadership. Women are only 9.5% of top earners, more educated, but they can pay less money. 6% of CEOs. Okay, I don't want to be depressing. What I do want to talk about for the rest of this time is what do we do with that? That is our reality in both in all the companies or countries that are represented. Things are changing. They're not totally changed. We want to keep the momentum going. But that's a break. So my first question for whoever would like to be able to tell the answer, I would love to talk a little bit about what are the current obstacles? What are the things that you all are seeing that are hindering women from moving into leadership positions? Okay. So some of the things that I, a question that I often ask and I've been asking across several years is, what's the greatest limitation that you face or we face? I think what we don't do very well is to tap into that inner reservoir, the repertoire of experiential knowledge. We all have struggles and we all have experiential perspectives on how to solve them. I don't think we sort of tap into it very well and we want to solve a problem. And if I can say that, so not in actually going to talk more depressive statistics, India is all of those that you did say we have more educated women. We have women enrolling far higher in doctoral and in master's programs in India. But the sad thing is in the labour force, the percentage of women has been dropping steadily. It was 37% in 2005 and now it is about 37%. So we do have those depressing statistics as evidence to tell you that there is a decline even in the urban workforce for several reasons. And one of them being that the Indian middle class has got so much more effluent that they don't really want their women to go to work because they don't think it is a financial necessity anymore. And they sort of tell women that you would stay at home and look after the family. And the second thing is that the cities in India tend to get a little unsafe and therefore these are some of the top two reasons that we side to ask them to stay home. So the labour force story remains here as much as a major problem. And you were right in the leadership positions even worse because as they progress through the corporate hierarchy, women tend to drop off the ladder because of these very reasons of family pressures. So there are struggles everywhere and this is what I meant to say. When I ask a woman what is exactly her limitation, she has a lot of experiential knowledge of how to deal with it but she essentially doesn't know how to go about it in India. And that is what I try to do in my work today by creating a platform which helps women find solutions to these struggles and these struggles I think are to learn. So I'll stop here continually. To add to some of the views that she mentioned, I'll give a cultural aspect, especially from the Indian context. This is a way of thinking that has come right from our work. For example, we live in a large family. I come from a family where my father had nine siblings and we all lived in a large house. Our grandparents where they ran the industry. So it's not that the money or financial instability led us to live together. But it's been a cultural aspect of living together. So the point where she mentioned that women taking care of house is built into the birth of an individual. It's that that is more difficult and that's why you need to take care of home to upbringing kids. So that's one aspect of it. The second aspect is it's just not relevant to only Indian women. Women tend to be a lot more, I wouldn't say less confident. They would actually want to prove themselves before applying for new positions. For example, I have often seen in my own teams, when there is a higher position that opens up, a lot more capable women often think twice before applying for that position. They tend to think, have I done this in the past? It's all about cultural, it's nothing to do with the way it would come out. Men often jump on to it. I'm not saying that capable or incapable. The way they counter problem is, let me see once I get into it. Whereas women measure that and then jump on to it once they are fully confident. So these are the cultural aspects that I do it. There's a research to support that. One of the barrier which I feel is, I feel it's one of the prime barrier is, in corporate level, we often be evaluated based on our gender. And there are certain criteria or maybe values associated to these genders. And if women try to break these barriers, they'd be considered as maybe unseminist or maybe not doing the right thing.  And even if you pursue yourself very strongly, there are corporate barriers such as corporate gatekeepers. This is how you should be dealing. This should be the leadership style. Whereas for men, there is no specific leadership style. But for women to conform to that, they might have to step into those masculine leadership style, bend themselves and sacrifice their own identity. I think it's on a couple of levels. There are systems, the rules and the norms and behaviors that we all have in place that we've all grown up with. We're used to them, men and women. And then there's the cultural piece and the messaging that women get. And I have an example from my past before I became a designer. I was in the military. I was in the U.S. Army. And at that time women hadn't been in the military all that long, the U.S. military. So the rule had been changed. But the attitudes of not only the men but also the women who got into the military were very mixed around should women be there, what was their role. We found that women were judged by a different standard. The physical standard was actually lower for women, which caused resentment among the men. But the women that were in, they actually had to work twice as hard.  So I think it's kind of step by step. You have to change the system level, but then there has to be a corresponding change in the cultural attitude and the level. And it's going to be a little kind of a jockeying over time, I believe. Something I've observed over the years is when there is a success, women are very hesitant to say, I did that, and to take credit for that success. We and I say, we did that, we did that together. My team did that. Oh, I don't get credit, you know, sharing credit. So I think the solution, at least in our culture, is to have more people recognize when a woman gives a significant achievement or does something new or different from the corporation. And echo, when you remember a thing, I tried to do this, but when someone, anyone comes up with a good idea, echo that and say, what I heard, Theresa just said, and say it again. But give credit to that person. Because so many, and I just see it over and over again, so many of us are hesitant to take full credit for the things that we've done. Whereas men's inclination is to say, I did this, I, I, I. And it is so, I have a husband, I don't think I'm very good yet. And so I'm quite practiced in raising my hand quietly and saying, remember me? So anyway, I think a solution is to echo each other. So, you know, interesting perspectives from having lived in the US as well as India and sort of looking at the, I guess the contrast and the differences. I want to start with a personal story though. I was at the US and there was this project that was really, really sought after. And my manager actually nominated me for that project. It was extremely strategic, a lot of visibility and all of that fun stuff. And I was extremely tentative. But my manager was really pushing that I could throw my hand in the ring. So he saw that I was being tentative and he asked me, he says, you know, what's going on? Do you know, are you not interested in the project? And so I said, well, it's actually personal. And he said, you know, he encouraged me to talk about what was going on. And I said, my husband and I were planning a family. And so he says, OK, the last time you checked, it takes at least nine months to deliver a baby.  And I said, yeah, but this is a really important project for the company and it requires someone to be here at least a year. And if I get pregnant in nine months and then I'm out of what happens to the project, he says, do you think all your male counterparts that have thrown their hat in the ring are asking themselves the same question? He showed me up and I got that job and it was the best thing for my career. And I tell you that it's, and I now pass that learning on. I say, make the guilt worth it. You know, make it worth it. Put your hat in the ring, throw your hat in the ring. Another quick story, my husband and I were arguing one morning, this was in the U.S. where we didn't have all of the support, amazing support system we had in India. So my daughter is the same, she was about two years old. And my husband and I were arguing about who stays back home to watch her because we couldn't send her to India. And my daughter, she hears my husband and I arguing and she changes her clothes, she's probably two and a half men. And she says, you know what, Mommy, I feel better, right? But she got terrified that we were doing that.  A lot of women say, I'm going to quit my job, it's not worth it. What I tell them is, make your job worth that. It's important to do that. It's important to keep your hat, throw your hat in the ring, get those challenging positions and make that guilt worth it. Because I will tell you, my second child, when I took time off, my husband and my daughter begged me to go back because I was not getting intellectual stimulation at all at all, right? And I was driving up a walk. So this is my advice based on my experiences that you're going to feel guilty as a mom, as a wife, as whatever role you play, that you've got to make your job worth that. And I'll add to that an experience that my husband and I had, two children, and he had to fight really hard for the term of the week. And he had to ask for multiple burns and was discouraged from taking it, which is I think illegal actually in the United States. And an observation that I've had is that the systems of our companies decide for our own families who's going to take care of children. They do because men are discouraged from taking time to participate in taking care of their children. And a lot of men feel very, they feel a lot of pressure that if they take even a week or two weeks, most men that I know in the United States have no idea how they're going to get, maybe take one week, maybe, yes. And it's tricky because even if the father wants to participate, there's a double obstacle from the inside of the company, which is a shame. So that leads me to, I'd like to ask a different question. So these are some of the context that we're dealing with, that we're all dealing with. And one thing I know about leadership is that ruthless prioritization is extremely helpful. It helps you to be a better leader. You have to decide what we focus on, right? So I want to throw that question to you. Given the complexity of our cultures, our work environments, the history that we all share, if our goal is to clear the path for more women to join the forces, design and technology, and even move into leadership positions, you're going to have to focus on one thing to focus on, but you get the most bang for your buck. Work doesn't have to be the thing. It's a lot of pressure. But one thing that you think would be really helpful, what would you focus on? What do you think would be the most interesting? I think asking critical questions, or building a mindset to ask a particular question. Because I think most problems are a few layers through the surface. And one thing that we tend to get very hard on is we sort of get to hear these cultural discourses very often and we limit ourselves to the sort of numbers. So setting priorities are probably influenced very strongly by the cultural discourses being made today with this. So if we could question our talents and our best interests, which could be that we have a very clear system that it means the cultural, the social, the public, that we have a very clear system that we must stick to. So building this cultural, the most critical mindset to question that I think is important. So I think it's really important for me as a priority. And I would say for all human readers to sponsor other women. I think that's really, really important. I was sharing with Theresa yesterday that I was in the U.S. and while I was working into a business, we sought out a leadership training. And we were at it, of course, very few women, but there were women. And there were photographers trying to capture that training. And I was Indian, pregnant, and a woman. And so they really wanted a picture of me. And I have to tell you I was cringing. I was like, oh my gosh, don't do that. Why? Because I think throughout my life, I tried to blend in. In the U.S. I wouldn't wear a few clothes because I wanted to blend in more. That was just so the opposite of what I now know and I'm like older and wiser. I think it's important to bring your individual, unique self to life in a single day. For those of us that are trying to blend in, it's important for women like us that have overcome that to sponsor other women. And I don't mean just mentor. I mean sponsor. And by that, mentoring is helping. Sponsoring is putting your own reputation on the line for another woman. It's really important that women and women do that. You know, they say that tomorrow is International Women's Day. We get one day of the year and men have one day of the year. So I think it's important that each of us, perhaps in this room, think about one promising woman.  You know, like you said, no lowering the bar because it's a woman, find a good woman and sponsor. That's a really cool idea. And I want to, since it's one thing to reset our decision, I'm normally a systems thinker, but I'm going to go super micro on this and I'm going to go back to the mentoring idea. And I run a team that includes men and women. And I try to mentor them all. And I think it's particularly important for women to mentor men. It sounds counter-intuitive. Oh, all the mentors. I think systemically, there's a lot there. But change at the heart and mind level has to happen. It's going to take the men, too. And if all the women just say, well, we're going to focus on the women because the men are focused on the men, that's just going to add more division and it's going to take us longer to solve this problem. So as counter-intuitive as it may sound, I would suggest and recommend that women, they mentor the men, too. I just want to thank my business partner for stopping the noise back there because I completely forgot what the question was. I was watching all the things slide by. So thank you very much for stopping the noise. Appreciate that. That's what we need to go on in our organizations. When we see something that's wrong, we need to speak up. And I want everyone, I hope men and women, will speak up when you see something going on, particularly if a woman is being stepped on or pushed down or not getting equal treatment or fair treatment, please speak up. So thank you for speaking up to the noise. That was mine, too. Because I think one of the important things for me is to really stand up for yourself and for others. Speak up, speak out, raise your voice, make your voice understand and hurt and collaborate. And I think that's important, whether with women or men, just make them understand. Sometimes we feel that they understand or maybe organization at a higher level, they understand your issues. But it's always better to make yourself understand. I think that we should speak up in terms of not just that person, but why it's good for the company. I think if we put everything in context of why this is good for the company, then you get more response. If you say, I don't like it, then it doesn't get a good response. But if you say, look, this is an important issue for the company and we're going to make 25% more relevant when we get this done by Q4, then you're heard. So putting in terms that the executives of the company can respond to and appreciate. I'll bring in some aspects of culture here. There was this lady in our team who was very silent. Communication is one difficult thing that actually makes people open up and understand people. There are some people who just don't open up, who are in their own shell. How do you handle such people? Women has this lack of understanding and reading out texts even without being communicated. The lady in my team was an excellent programmer. But the problem that she faced was she was not opening up or volunteering to speak it out. So giving a little push to such people and giving the confidence in them actually makes them much, much more... They bloom out to be such wonderful, powerful characters in the organization that you would love to sit back and see them blooming. I mean, it's wonderful to see such people have been fortunate enough to have such people in my team in the past and I really enjoy them and I see them either in newspapers or taking part in big major events or getting several patents in their name. These things really make you feel proud. So these are some of those things that women can... I wouldn't say it's only women, however, we have a certain act where we can figure out who's that, what is that they're bringing onto the table and identifying them and helping them, giving a little push to them so that they bloom out. So, building on that, one thing that I try to do is when I see a woman ask for something like a raise, an example, I try, I begin by acknowledging that they just did something for the brave and saying, I am really proud of you for standing up for yourself as a woman and coming to me and saying that you think you deserve women. And then we have a conversation about whatever the request is, but first and foremost I really try to acknowledge when I see women doing things like that. And I also have benefited from being pushed. My previous boss, Kendra, who soon knows, basically threw me in a room in front of people to start teaching and I do a lot of teaching today and I'm very comfortable with it, but for like six months I was wildly uncomfortable, wildly wildly uncomfortable. And then I started to think about what I did every day of my job. And then there was this point where I got used to it and then I started excelling at it. But I do feel very grateful to her for deciding for me that I was going to do something that I was uncomfortable with. And I think it's a good thing for us to keep in mind given that it is true there is research that says that women don't ask as much as men that, and particularly those of us who are watching for that and we're prodding and encouraging and paying attention to most of the men who are asking for things and the women on my team are being really silent. And just being observant to that, being aware that that dynamic does happen. Because all you need is one experience like what I had where they're pushed to do something you're afraid of and it can really change what you ask for in the future. How much time do we have left? How much? Any more minutes? I just want to build on what Teresa said and kind of extend it to yourself. So sometimes you do have somebody that will push you in and you're uncomfortable. It's harder to opt in to discomfort yourself. You were thrown in and I had that fortune as well but I think it kind of gets to owning or embracing the guilt, embrace the discomfort because you're going against the grain and it's going to be uncomfortable. Own it, accept it, and put yourself in that uncomfortable position because it will get easier. It's hard the first time. I used to be terrified of public speaking to the point where I was shaking so badly I couldn't drink water. When I was talking because everybody would see my hands shaking. So if I get my hands on my pockets I could get through it and now I'm okay. Do you all have any questions? I wanted to make what you said about being afraid in the first six months. Men are afraid. Men are terrified in those six months. Also, don't be fooled. Thank you.  Go out. And women are told a different story but they're just afraid. Especially for the mic. I do have a vision for the Indian. I see in my company, girls are really scared of coming out and when I talk to them they feel like they are being judged. So I feel like it's a mindset. And how do you feel those mindsets? Can you give them a push? Give them everything? Still the mindset is hard to change. Then what do you think about that? How to change their minds? You know they can go to talk to their managers or they can wear whatever they want to wear. But how can we be competitive? Exactly what I said. This is exactly what I read. I said that you've been evaluated based on your general. I think we have to just drop the facts of male and female. And you know, perceive ourselves as a professional. If your male counterpart can go and ask for a raise or maybe reach out to the manager for some issues or whatever the things which are really quick. So are you? So I don't think so that you should really restrain yourself or not doing that or judge yourself. And another thing which I see is that often we just compare ourselves with other people. Like if they are doing this then preferably we should be doing this. I think every individual is different and you should have your own road map understanding your own capabilities your own inner self and just rely on emotional intelligence. We had an experience. So we all have a workshop going on in our company where they're doing empowerment for the girls who are not coming up. So I take a part and I was trying to push them. There was one girl we were having a task where she needed to only pretend that she's talking with her manager. And I was the manager. So I was not actual manager but just like a task you were talking. She was shivering. Like shivering and bubbling and I'm like what?  Yeah because I mean from the childhood you know it's part of our culture we've been really suppressed and for many western countries it's breaking the glass ceiling I think for India is first breaking the marble ceiling which is like you know a fight with your own inner self and then fighting with your families like okay the decision which you are taking you really have to stand by it you know first you judge yourself and then you just convince your family then you go out in a corporate culture and you know like breaking the glass ceiling and you know breaking all these barriers so that's why I think it's important for women to understand each other empower each other and rather than pulling each other down because I have seen in corporate a thing that you know they really pull each other down because this is how they refer their success your oh shit I also wanted to be in this situation or I wanted to achieve that so and why to hold yourself back what will what will happen one thing you should always raise your voice and speak out for yourself I have a slightly different perspective I think you know for me what's worth is to say less about men do this women do this and talk about my own stories you know the story that I mentioned about my daughter the last time I said I really cheered up because it was a very emotional story for me as I was telling the story there was a woman in the audience that had a question but she couldn't say it because she was so emotional right and I actually let her she was cheering up and I said it's okay it happens to me as well and I pointed to what just happened to me as I told the story so I think somewhere to begin okay and lead by your own stories versus you know say people tend to be like this or like that because you don't really know what their cultural context might be I think being vulnerable as a leader is a really important thing and so when you show that you have those stories too and you share it with them I think it gives something that's what I do so my name is Ahmed so we'll talk about making the conversation like the own bit way making the conversation at home we have a really healthy competition when it comes to how much we make so in a competition I guess usually I honestly feel really good with them but I have one question which I have how many wives do you have why an ancestor so just one question is that women try to support themselves and there are men I suppose like me who want to support that feminism or equality also what do you think would be the role of men to make sure that the gender equality in terms of corporate sector or professionalism increases where women get their view and how can men push women to do much better what should companies do to bring inequality for men for men sorry I didn't what can men do to bring what can men help I'll again talk with my own example men giving a little push or showing that confidence taking the same example of where I started with I'm a cold pecky by heart I love doing things rather than talking up things so when it came to actually picking up the next role it was always my manager who came and said why don't you apply for it I'm like would I lose that out in terms of doing it I love doing things said no not really you are the boss so you can figure out what you want to do and actually recognize men or women whoever it is can recognize what's good in an individual and help people to do things of their own plus move up in the ladder I mean this is one I can think of a lot of leadership meetings when we went to our socials it would always be over drinks in the evening and the talk would be about sports or politics all those four things don't interest me and I want to go home and you guys know the traffic in Bangalore I want to go home to my family and spend the weekend with them but Friday evenings would be the leadership sort of social and you know I actually spoke to my manager and I said it's great that you have a spouse at home that can manage your children but I don't have a spouse at home managing my job I want you to do this off-sites a lot of times the leadership off-sites or even team building they're all overnight and I had someone that was on my team that said she went home late nobody in her family spoke to her because she went away and they thought she was prioritizing work over family and they actually gave her the cold children to eat so I think it's about being sensitive another woman said gosh you know I've got to do this off-site I've got to pack my kids' dabbas early in the morning so she actually started preparing for it the previous night itself I think it's about being sensitive a lot of team building can happen without being overnight it can happen without it being Friday night over drinks so I think it's important for us women to speak up but when we speak up knowing that it's difficult I think it's important for men to listen when you do that I also remember we were talking about diversity and why diversity is a challenge we're talking about gender diversity in specific and I made a comment and right away all of the other leaders who were men said oh do you mean we should give women special treatment it took a lot of courage for me to say what I did and right away I was shut down thankfully my manager said you know what we may not agree with her but let's hear her out I think that's the support we need I think we just it doesn't mean listen to us sorry it doesn't mean do what we're saying but at least allow that voice to come in and I think whether it's men or women like you said and you had said that earlier as well soon to amplify that I think is important and that's important in corporate environments especially where I think we have more men than women especially as a group I'd like to add on that and this is actually advice for women too we've all grown up in the different cultures but we all seem to have this global gender separation and we have unconscious biases that we're not aware of once you put a cover over you see two resumes and you see the names you automatically start to think different things about these two people so I would urge everybody to question yourselves first question your assumptions when you're a boss and you think oh this male on my team he's the one that should be promoted maybe it's merit but maybe not and we all have these biases I think we all do it could be a constant effort for at least a generation or more for us to break these models so start to question yourselves and even question others too why is he being promoted and she's not why is the rule like this because all of this legacy stuff is just sitting around for generations now and it's going to be up to us to remove it and the first step is to say it's done here alright I'm sorry we need to wrap up thank you so much