and welcome back to the Donahue Group. We're delighted that you could join us for another half hour of good conversation and interesting ideas and maybe a little fun along the way. We have a special guest with us today, Jay Heck from Common Cause in Wisconsin. But before we introduce Jay, I want to go around and introduce our other panel members. I know we're becoming beloved to all of you, but just in case you don't remember, Ken Risto is the Director of Social Studies for the Sheboygan Area School District. Tom Taneski is a Professor of Mathematics at the University of Wisconsin-Sheboygan campus. Cal Potter, former state senator, former employee with the Department of Public Instruction. That always takes me a long time to say in any event. I'm Mary Lynn Donahue. I practice law here in Sheboygan. Cal, I would be delighted if you would introduce Jay. I know that you're old friends. Okay, Jay Heck is with us. Jay is the Executive Director of Common Cause in Wisconsin, the 4,000-member public interest group, also affiliated with Common Cause on a national level. And Jay will give us a little background on what his organization is and its history after I get done with the bio that I have. As Mary Lynn has mentioned, I knew Jay since his coming to Wisconsin and having worked earlier with the state legislature. And so I could probably give you a bio, but it wouldn't be due justice to this young man's background and accomplishments. So I will take the email bio that he sent to me and without the notes saying, get it right. So, yeah. But Jay is a person who has been with Common Cause for 10 years. He assumed the Executive Directorship in 1996. And he did, before that, served for three years as government affairs and Chief Lobbyist, really, for the Wisconsin Association of Independent Colleges and Universities. Prior to coming to, he came to Wisconsin in 1988 to assume an assistant role to then Senate Majority Leader, Joe Stroll, and then worked in our Senate Democratic Caucus, particularly in the area of media where I got to work with Joe on media presentations. And we won't talk about the quality thereof, but he did a good job in trying to make sure and make my presentations as good as possible. He worked in that capacity until his taking the job at the Independent Colleges and Universities. He does bring to his Executive Directorship also experience on a federal level. He worked for a congressman from Pennsylvania in the 1980s. And so when he talks about what's going on in Madison, what's going on in Washington, D.C., he really does bring a real world experience having worked in both arenas, and that I think has served him well in his directorship. He also was an active in the John Anderson presidential campaign of 1980. And so again, he brings a myriad of good experience. He's a native of Cleveland, Ohio, a 1979 graduate with honors from Miami University. He's married, has two children, and resides in the fine city of Madison. And without further damaging his career and his accomplishments, I'll turn it over to Jay. Jay, we're delighted that you can stand us. And we had a most interesting conversation in our last episode. These are sort of like the Star Trek episodes. You know, it's a star year 22.4, but talking about really the extraordinary times in Wisconsin now. Governor Doyle is up to his neck, I think, in hot water, we can all agree. The Scott Jensen coming up for trial. These are interesting times for Wisconsin politics, and we talked about some of the ethics, proposed ethics reforms. I just wanted to focus a little bit more on your sense of just kind of a political junkie. And just flat out supporter of Jim Doyle, I've always liked Jim Doyle, a little disturbed or a little discouraged about what's going on. Are these three issues, we have the, I call it travel gate after the Clinton debacle some years ago, the problem with the DOT fundraiser, and the quantum nuclear power plant. Right, the power plant, the contributions to the utilities while the PSC was considering their application. Just how damaging are these in a really, I think we can all agree is going to be an extremely hotly contested gubernatorial race. Does this sink him? Well, it doesn't help, as they say. Well, look, first of all. We'll write that down. It's not helpful. Well, look, the governor is, I think, in some trouble. There's no question about it, and it's an election year, and obviously there'll be partisans on the other side. They'll seek to take political advantage of it. But you know, the question, in each instance, it's, you know, without going into great detail. I mean, the thread through all of it is this sort of perceived need to raise a great deal of money to be elected governor of Wisconsin. And, you know, if you look at the so-called travel gate, what it involves, basically, is the awarding of a travel contract involving University of Wisconsin personnel. The idea was to award the contract to one agency to save the state money so that personnel at the UW were not making their own arrangements to travel all over wherever they have to go. Made sense. But the question, though, became why did the contract, why was it awarded to this one agency when on the first round of consideration, you know, another agency actually scored better in terms of lower cost. The contract was held open where there was one individual who has been indicted now for two felonies who insisted that it be held open. And the criminal indictment says that it was quote unquote for political considerations, including keeping her own job and also giving advantage to her supervisors. So the question on that, really, is what was the political consideration? Was it the fact that the travel agency owner contributed $7,000 or $10,000 to Governor Doyle's reelection campaign and somebody else on the board, another $10,000? Was that it? It's not named in the indictment, but the question is whether there was pressure brought to bear. So again, it's the money. It sort of was that the driving problem there. And we'll see. I mean, the governor, I'll take him in his word, didn't know Georgia Thompson, the person who was indicted, probably didn't have any say whatsoever in the awarding of the contract, but were there people who were political appointments of the governor who did? And so that's, as they said in the Watergate scandal, what did they know and when did they know it? That's what we're gonna have to find out. That's the investigation. And the same thing, the other thing, the number two person at the Department of Transportation was just cleared by the State Ethics Board of having acted improperly. But here's the problem. The number two person at DOT held a fundraiser for the governor for his reelection and invited contractors, engineering firms that did business with the Department of Transportation and actually encouraged those folks to come to the fundraiser. And while it technically wasn't in violation of the law, the Ethics Board itself said it should be, it should be illegal and obviously because of the conflict. Again, the overriding concern seemed to be this need to raise the money for the reelection. And then finally, the Kiwani Nuclear Power Plant. Two members of the Public Service Commission changed their vote on whether or not to sell the Kiwani Nuclear Power Plant to a Virginia utility company. Was it because in the time between they changed their vote and they reconsidered, or they voted and they reconsidered, utility companies contributed some 30,000 or more to the governor's reelection campaign? That's under investigation. But again, it's this money or the perceived need to raise the money. So that's the governor's own particular problem. But certainly his Republican opponents have got problems too. They sure do. Congressman Green over the years accepted $30,000 from Tom DeLay who's now stepped down as majority leader of the US House of Representatives. That money appears to be tainted. Green says he's not gonna spend it on his reelection. There's money from Jack Abramoff which went exclusively to Republicans and people are returning that money if they received it. And so there's this whole now thing about we wanna be clean, we wanna be reformers and everybody's scurrying for the political cover. And so, but it's gonna be tough for the governor. There's no question about it. And one of the things that's disappointing to me frankly is, and I'll make a confession, I voted for him too. And I voted for him because he of all the candidates running both in the Democratic primary and in the general election in 2002 was the one who was most vehement about reform. The one who was most vehement about cleaning up Wisconsin politics. This is at the time of the legislative caucus scandal when Chuck Kuala and Scott Jensen had just been criminally charged. Doyle said one of his first acts as governor would be to clean up campaign finance and corruption in Madison. And then he becomes governor and that became a secondary, even a tertiary consideration. We haven't heard anything about reform until recently. And so that's been terribly disappointing. So it's a problem, it's a bipartisan problem. And interestingly enough, corruption and politics and reform I think is gonna be an issue this year in a way that we haven't seen it as an issue probably any other year since maybe 1974. I think when Cal Potter was first elected to the legislature that was considered the Watergate year. And a lot of folks were swept into office because of the scandal in Washington which sort of reverberated around the country. We're not that far away from November elections and I just am interested in all of your responses. Are there candidates though who are really coming up who are talking about these issues and really running on these issues? I get discouraged that the process itself is so daunting that you can't get into a race to even raise the issue because you don't have enough money or enough backing. And I guess I'm pretty cynical about, we talked in the last show only 6% of Wisconsin residents think legislators are working for them. The other 94% of us, are we gonna be able to, is there gonna be a clean sweep?  Do you get anything better with Green or with Walker? And Tom, I don't know what your thoughts are on that. I mean, just following the Milwaukee County exec, I mean, he inherited a situation and he got a handle on it. So whether when he moves to, if he got elected to the governor, would he keep that same kind of philosophy or would it change? But it seemed like he got a handle on some of the corruption that was going in the county government there. One of the disturbing things about the political scene today is not only the money, but there has been a fragmentation of the electorate into special interests that oftentimes not so much with money, but with modern technology today can rattle the cage of a legislator very quickly, whether it's the right to life people, the NRA people. When those issues come up, the emails come out, the communications come out, and a lot of politicians today don't take on a lot of broad based general issues like education or something like that, but they do talk about some of these one issue things that where they know there's a constituency out there that electronically is tied to their membership and can get out votes. And they just say, well, not only do they count up the dollars, they say, well, if I add up all these groups and if I get 51% of the vote, everybody else be damned. I don't have to follow what somebody else cares about healthcare or education or under sort of good public policy things. All I have to be right is on these special interests, these very monolithic groups that are out there and are very expressive on their issue. On the national level, I don't see anybody, there's just a sense that everybody's corrupt and what difference does it make with the old who song? Here's the meet the new boss, same as the old boss. On a local level, when you talk about assembly races and perhaps Senate seats, it would just be intriguing to see if somebody would look into the camera and say, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna limit my campaign to X number of dollars. I'm only gonna accept money from my district. I'm only gonna accept more than $100 per person. And I'm gonna publish this on the web so you all know where the money's coming from. Because I can't run it with the money I've got and there's no public financing yet. And actually just challenge whoever they're running against and I would hope somebody would do that with live them here in town, just to take that on. We're not gonna accept any other money outside of that and maybe no PAC money. And put some rules down and then let's have public debates in a variety of places where people can know and see us and go on shows like this and public television and actually have a race and a debate. Now maybe that's idealistic, but it'd be interesting to see if the public would respond to that on a local level. I think it might. I'm a little more optimistic than Mary Lynn about that. I would be very pessimistic because I would say that one of the repercussions of people being only 6% positive about their elected officials is they've turned off to them. They're irrelevant. They don't listen. I don't think they would listen to a politician coming out and saying, I'm gonna limit my campaign funding and so on.  So I don't know that anybody could sincerely sell in this environment that they are really gonna spend very little and be an ethical candidate. And maybe we're gonna have to have a generation of citizen candidates then. I was intrigued about a comment you made in the last segment we talked about where this generation of legislators are almost homegrown politicians that I know that Joe and Joe's no exception, and others I'm told went to candidate school and they were groomed to handle the media and to handle those types of things. And maybe it's gonna have to take just regular, folks interested in public affairs again to say I'm not a professional politician and perhaps it's gonna have to be tied to term limits. I'm a little more skeptical of term limits than some folks but maybe it was a promise that I'm gonna do this for six years or eight years and then I'm coming back and living here with you again. I don't know if that would generate some enthusiasm or not. And local levels, I don't think anybody's cares about Congress. Well, you know. I really don't, I mean. First of all, the Congressional seats are gerrymandered and not competitive anyway. There are no, there are no, there's really no competitive Congressional seats in Wisconsin. In 1998 there were as many as four. Now there's not, you could argue maybe the Fox Valley where Mark Green's leaving is somewhat competitive but every other one is utterly uncompetitive and in the legislature too, there's only a handful of seats that are really truly competitive. Most have been gerrymandered as you mentioned and totally safe. I mean, the proof of that is that Scott Jensen who was criminally charged in 2002 has been reelected twice as he was criminally charged because the district he represents has been so Republican. Gary George for years reelected, although people had a sense that he was, you know, less than above board, reelected overwhelmingly until finally he was taken out in the primary. But so that's the problem is that you don't, you don't have competitive elections. People do become frustrated and they do say thing, they do turn to solutions like term limits. That happened in many states about 10 years ago in 1994. But the alternative to term limits would be campaign finance reform and the model, and there's one in place that we could emulate is Minnesota. I mean, the difference between Minnesota is what? They have more Swedes, we have more Norwegians but basically we're pretty much the same. There's not a lot of difference, you know. They got Garrison Keeler. They got Garrison Keeler, you know. And not enough Irish. Well, that's right. We have more Germans, we drink more beer, but they probably drink more vodka. So, you know, but the point is that it works there because they in 1994 put in a place in a system of reform where they had some public money and they had spending limits and every legislative candidate, everyone Republican or Democrat abides by spending limits in Minnesota so they operate on an equal playing field. Everybody raises the same amount of money, spends the same amount of money. The lower house has turned over several times during that period because it's won on ideas. If the governor's race is in Minnesota, the spending limit's $2 million. Jesse Ventura was elected for better or for worse in 1998, but he was elected not because of money. He was elected because he did better in debates than Norm Coleman or Hubert Humphrey III. And people liked that. It was a battle of ideas in Minnesota. We don't have that here. In Wisconsin, whoever has the most money wins the race. And I think there is a chance that we could return and sort of emulate Minnesota. And at least if the Packers can't beat the Vikings, we could at least do as well as Minnesota does in our elections. We can come back to that place, I'm convinced. I think- Could PAC committees take place of the candidates spending money? So the candidates, as I promised, I'm not gonna spend X amount of dollars or this is the amount that I'm- But then there's maybe 15, 20, 30 PAC committees that can go ahead and continue to spend and on behalf of the candidate. Well, what you can do, and Senator Ellis who we talked about, I mean, his plan basically, and it's pretty radical, what he says is that you have spending limits, but what you also do is you provide some public financing to candidates who are the targets of those outside groups.  Well, under the Ellis plan, you would be eligible to receive public financing to match the money that WEAC spends. And what Ellis, who is a fiscal conservative, bets, and I think he's right, is that WEAC wouldn't spend the money. Why would they? It would be an inefficient use of their money if you're going to be matched with an equal amount to defend yourself. So WEAC then does not spend the money against you. Instead what they do is they go on the ground and they spend money like they used to. I mean, I'm just old enough to remember when teachers would come to my door or business people from the Chamber of Commerce and said we think you should vote for this person because we think they'd be good for business or for good for education. That's what they should be doing. They shouldn't be spending their money on attack ads on TV. So the beauty of the Ellis plan in my view is that it sort of encourages those outside groups to stay out and get involved in other ways. And then it becomes a battle of ideas rather than money. And I think if we did that, if we had something like that in place in Wisconsin, people would have much more confidence that their government wasn't being bought and paid for. We'd have more people that would run for office because they wouldn't feel like they have to take out a second mortgage on their soul in order to run for office. So I think there's a lot of positive benefits to having reform. And look, people's faith in government right now, it can't go any lower. I'm an optimist, you have to be as a reformer. It can only get better. My wife would suggest I'm in denial, but I'm actually an optimist that we can actually have a system in place that would be better for all of us. And we can reconnect people to their government, which I think is desperately needed. Then you have all the legal challenges though. You just issued a press release on the Supreme Court sending back the Wisconsin Right to Life challenge to the McCain Fine Gold Act. And so does money equal free speech? The courts have muddied the waters. I mean, there's no doubt about it. And comprehensive campaign reform can be termed or can be framed as a difficult unconstitutional. Denial of free speech, free access to being able to express your ideas and so forth. It's tough. Well, as you might imagine, you can write a campaign finance law and we've done this with Senator Ellis that would survive constitutional scrutiny. And you can do it in such a way. You can't force a candidate, for instance, to take public financing. You can't force them to agree to spending limits, but you can provide incentives for them to do so. If it's voluntary, you're not compelling them to do it. So you can construct a system. And in the case of Wisconsin Right to Life, I mean, one of the great misnomers is that campaign finance reform somehow restricts free speech. It really doesn't. It really doesn't. Well, no, in fact, money does not equal speech. Money equals more speech. And the more money you have, the more speech you have. But it's not, it doesn't, if you have reform, that doesn't mean you can't speak. Wisconsin Right to Life wanted to be able to run ads, depicting Senator Feingold in the period right before the election. But they wanted to, and they can still do that. They can run ads. All groups do it. There's no problem with that. But they wanted to be able to use undisclosed, unregulated money, which is against the law in Wisconsin and against the law on the federal level. But they wanted to be able to use it. They claimed it was for lobbying. Well, in fact, it wasn't for lobbying purposes. They wanted to influence the outcome of the election. But they claim it's for lobbying. What's interesting is Wisconsin Right to Life didn't run those ads after the election. They didn't run those ads in the period before the election, six months before, when the issue they were talking about was really most cogent. They did it, they wanted to do it in the period right before the election to influence the outcome. So you have to face these things head on and you have to take them. And obviously they have to survive constitutional scrutiny. The US Supreme Court upheld the McCain-Feingold bill in just two years ago. And I think five-four. Five-four. Well, that's right. And as you might imagine, one of the reasons why Right to Life would bring this challenge up is they're hoping there'll be a different outcome, ultimately with the different composition of the Supreme Court. Although I would be doubtful that would happen because I think the US Supreme Court would be very hesitant to overturn a precedent that was set so recently on this issue. Okay. So they have told us in their hearings. Okay, we've focused a great deal on the previous program in this one so far on Alice's plan and Wisconsin's plan. You're affiliated with the National Common Cause and we have Abramoff scandal. It's probably in dollars and cents, a lot worse than the Wisconsin scene. What are you hearing from the National Common Cause about prognosis for real reform, if any, and who are the leaders on the federal level to bring this about? Well, the name's John McCain and Russ Feingold, you know, I mean, it's whenever most reform tends to be with the reform-oriented legislators and they've proved to be a pretty potent combination, but the question on the federal level right now is more lobbying reform. It's not so much campaign finance reform. And, you know, look, when I was an aide in Washington, I got free trips all over the world and I was definitely influenced. I still to this day have very favorable feelings about Taiwan. I got a free trip to go to Taiwan and it certainly influenced how I feel about it. And there's been, that actually is, some of the free travel has been cut over the years, but what it's been replaced by at the federal level has been these smaller trips, but with more campaign contributions. And certainly Abramoff gave a lot of money only to Republican candidates, but he gave trips to both sides. But there is a move underway at the federal level to make it so that it's next impossible to accept free things. Right now there's a $49 or $50 limit on lunches. I mean, I could get a pretty big lunch for 50 bucks in Sheboygan or Madison, but the idea is that a lot of people would, they would take, lobbyists would take congressmen out and they'd spend $49 many times so that they would never come up to that $50 limit. So there's reform and basically, you know, who's got the best model in the nation, Wisconsin. Our model, as you know, and the legislature is with the cup of coffee roll. If it's worth more than a cup of coffee, you can't take anything from a lobbyist. And they should do that at the federal level. There's absolutely no reason why staff people and congressmen should be getting free gifts or free lunches because, you know, let's be honest. I mean, it does have an influence on how people behave. So there is legislation afoot and because of the fallout from the Abramoff scandal and Tom DeLay, my guess is they'll get some lobby reform. Yeah, my sense is that, again, these are just political tsunamis really, in some respects. I mean, to have DeLay taken down, to me, that was... Significant. Significant. There we go. It was something that I just simply would not believe could have ever happened. And Abramoff kind of seemed to creep up on everyone, but there's someone whose tentacles are absolutely everywhere. And, you know, so maybe there are some possibilities. And I really like Ken's idea. Just a real, what would it be like, and we've talked about third party politics and typically it would come out of a third party, but what would it be like really to have an election that is fought on ideas and not in the media and not on pandering TV commercials that dumb down the American consciousness to it's morning in America. See, I thought when the 94 election was a campaign of ideas with the Republicans. Contract with America. I mean, that was really... And I hate to stop this show, but we're out of... That was ideas. But they've all, they've become... I know. They've compromised their ideas. They've compromised. I agree. And we're out of time. And we have to finish with a contract on America, which breaks my heart, Tom, but in any event, Jay has been wonderful. Thank you for traveling to Sheboygan. Love it. And I will be with you again. Thank you.


All right. So first of all, welcome. My name is Harshatana. I am Chief Architect on Cloud Manager of Product from Ericsson. My name is Sudhir Ketamaka. I lead and manage a product development team that's working on the Cloud Manager solution. But I also have a unique opportunity to play a solution architect role, helping Harshatana and some of our solution architects working with the customers. So first of all, thank you for coming. I know you have a wide choice of talks at this prime time, pretty close to the lunchtime as well, and great turnout. We are glad to see you all here. Clearly, the organizers have underestimated the telco interest in this summit. They gave us all room for all the telco talks. So next time, probably, they will do a better job. OK, so today's talk is about NFV orchestration going beyond virtualization. So just like everything else in software and life in general, there are multiple ways to do these things. And this is our view. Nothing here is based on speculation. It's from our experience with some of the real deployment in the past year or two years, and also some of the POCs that we are doing with tier one customers around the world. So Harshatana and I gave a talk in Vancouver also about NFV orchestration. We emphasized how important it is to look at heterogeneous and distributed clouds, especially when you are in this telco NFV paradigm. The reason is you cannot assume a greenfield deployment. So you all by now very well know what NFV is. And why we are doing this. Just to add to that, in fact, there were a number of talks. We are happy to see that there were a number of talks this summit talking about the same topics. And so we kind of started a bit early, about two or two and half, three years back. But we see that our assumptions are getting validated. And glad to see that really happening in the industry. Some of these things that we are going to talk here are certainly debatable. So we'll leave some time for questions at the end. But please hold off until the end. And there's not too many slides. So you can even remember the slide number and just point to the slide back. And we can go back and talk about it. All right, let's get started. Since our agenda, I'm not going to go too much into the detail on what NFV is, what monoframework is. I think by now, I'm expecting a lot of you have been attending the talks about NFV or know something about telco NFV. So we'll go through the orchestrator, what we meant by going beyond virtualization, and then what Ericsson is doing about it. And a brief talk about our Ericsson Cloud portfolio as well. All right, this is the NFV overview from as defined by the ISG in Etsy. Not a standard yet proposal. And a lot of things, I think it evolved quite a bit. And several of these things are getting there. Key elements. And we are going to focus today mostly on the orchestration and the management part, which is the mono and the virtual infrastructure manager or managers, which is the open stack, is also part of it. Open stack kind of falls between the NFVI and the VIM layer, as most of you very well know. So the framework here mono meant NFVO, the VNF managers, the domain managers in the past, and plus the VIMs constitute, they kind of enable the orchestration of your network services and the management of your network services. Key elements, like I mentioned, the virtual applications, network functions, and the VIM, NFVI. One thing, we started the cloud manager solution two and a half, three years ago. And at the time, there was no division of managers versus orchestrators. But clearly, every VNF, we see in the telcospace, have their own domain managers. And it's inevitable that there would be something called a VNF manager that would be doing that in the virtualization as well. However, in the absence of such a thing, we did come up with the concept of generic VNFM as part of our architecture and the planning. We'll talk a little bit about that again. What's beyond virtualization? So yes, I think if you look at the picture in the middle, these are most familiar network functions, virtual IMS, EPC, CDN. If you just take them as applications and you want to deploy them on the virtual infrastructure, absolutely, I think OpenStack has evolved quite a bit. Some of the other vendors are also coming up with virtualization solutions. But I think the closest is definitely the OpenStack. And there's a lot of support from, especially from the telco industry to take that as more of a de facto VIM and NFEI. So we are glad to see that. And if it is just about virtualization, I think we do have a lot of tools in OpenStack. Ecosystem and a little bit about that. Heat was introduced to orchestrate and deploy resources. There were IT tools like Puppet, et cetera. They were doing a great job with the deployment. But the story doesn't just stop at virtualization. It's the whole lifecycle management of your network services and your network functions. What do we need to do when you are in that, when your role is to manage and orchestrate? Here are the few things that we saw as the challenges that we need to face or solve when we have to support the orchestration and management of network functions. You have to be able to customize and extend. This is both your interfaces and your functionality. You have to provide secure and open access. It has to be operationally ready. So FCAP support, service assurance, operations integration. You have your existing systems, legacy, or even advanced systems that a lot of you know, I think this is the biggest challenge, especially in the telco industry, where operations is always something that people try to solve at the end. But it is like the most important thing when you are trying to actually launch a service or a launch a function. And then physical infrastructure connectivity. This is not going away in the next year, two years, three years. You all know that. It's a nice dream to have everything virtualized, but that's not the case. And for a long time, we will still have to support the physical network and infrastructure connectivity from your virtualized world. OK. Let's dig a little deep into that. So what is needed? I can mention open and secure APIs in various layers. You saw the monoframed work. There is like OSS-BSS systems talking to the orchestrator and then an orchestrator then communicating with the domain managers or VNF managers. And then there is interfaces to the WIMS for resource management and to collect the information. So all these interfaces are supported by the APIs. And you need to have open and secure APIs. Adaptation and extension framework. So that's the biggest challenge. VNF is not a VNF. Network service is not every service is same or not every function is same. So even for a specific, let's take the case of an EPC, you try to build, as a vendor, you try to build with your own EPC solution in your company in mind. And then when you are just playing a role of an orchestrator, you go and try to integrate these things, you will find surprise, surprise. It's not exactly what you thought it would be.  But then there is always extensions and adaptation required in every layer that we are talking about here. And the biggest challenge, like I mentioned, when it comes to the operations, performance, and fault management, and virtual and physical network connectivity, I think there has been a tremendous amount of work that has been done in the past year, two years, whether it is SDN controllers by various vendors and even the standards have been evolving. And there are still a lot of challenges. I think we attended some talks and some of very good points were brought up, hopefully the community and also the standards bodies will address these things. But that is still like a reality that you need to have connectivity. OK, I'll just go one by one and talk about what we mean by the open APIs. Kind of clubbed in the VNF catalog in there. So the definitions could be by the standards such as open virtualization format, TASCA, and also the heat templates are getting a lot of popularity these days. So you need to have these standards-based catalogs in your system. OSS, BSS, and not-born systems. So I think most popular ones, HTTP REST or so-based APIs. Again, not every operator's OSS, BSS system is the same. So you need to have, again, some level of openness there and, of course, security as well. Third party VNF managers. So again, I think we all know that some of you are from the vendor companies just like Ericsson, Juniper, Brocade. You have a certain view of domain managers in mind when you're building your orchestration solutions. But again, when you try to integrate with other vendor solutions, and you will have to because that's what is going on. I mean, if you're from any of the tier one operators, you know this very well that you're not getting all the VNFs and services from the same vendor as you're getting the systems integration work or orchestration. So there need to be a lot of openness in the APIs there. Element management, EMS systems, same story there. VIM APIs. I think OpenStack has done a very good job with respect to the core like now storage, compute, networking. Networking is still evolving. I think there's a lot of talks about what is needed from the telco perspective. But there are only concern in the API layer would be some of the operations side of things, like how we can gather information about the faults in the system or performance of the system, et cetera. That I think still needs to be evolved. And resource information is still something that is lacking there. Right. And last but not the least, the network infrastructure itself, like talking to Neutron or OpenDeli8, et cetera. OK. That's the API part. And next is the adaptation framework. What do you mean by that? If you see those yellow rectangles there, so the APIs are there, but then it provides you some sort of a structure or interface. But then functionality-wise, the behaviors are different again. So in each part here, like the orchestration framework itself, you have to enable or you have to provide the trigger points or plug points so that every new solution can introduce custom logic into your flows. And the second one is extremely important, interface adaptation for network connectivity, such as SDN controllers, physical network elements, network management systems. So not everything is so pressed HTTP. So we are talking about a lot of systems talking, NetCon, CLI, SSH into the systems to do the configuration post instantiation of these virtual resources so that there can be connectivity established between your VMs and the physical elements. VNF manager interface adaptation, again, from our own experience, we had to introduce, we went with certain assumption, but when we get to an actual solution for a particular operator, we had to go and introduce some trigger points where there would be some custom logic involved even in that area and adaptation of various EMS element management systems. OK. And I'll let Hashad take over and talk about the next two challenges. Yeah, so thank you, Sudeer. So like Sudeer said, there are standards that are being defined, but they are still not standards. I think more or less all the vendors and telco providers are together in this journey that we want to have standards at these APL layers. But in the absence of actual standards, these adaptations on some of those APL layers that we talked about is very, very critical. And I think that is going to be the situation for quite some time. And there are adaptations that will have to adjust to that. OK, so the next topic that we are going to talk about is operational readiness, or as Sudeer said, service assurance, fault, and performance management. Now talking about the virtualization is one part. But when we are talking about the virtual network functions and network services, it involves a whole lot of infrastructure that is still not virtualized. And you also have elements that are new elements compared to what you had in the earlier physical network function implementation. You have the whole WIM layer. You have the NFVI layer. And you have to be able to take the fault and performance data from all these layers, correlate them, and provide a holistic view to your operations team. Otherwise, the system becomes very hard to use. And when you talk about we are just starting, but when we are going into production, and these things are supposed to scale and have the agility to scale up, scale down, and put together the VNFs and services in a very, very short time, if you don't have the tend to end visibility into the operations data, it will be a real problem to actually be accepted in the telco operation environment itself. So that is the key aspect. The other thing that you have to be able to do with the NFU and the VNF managers is to provide highly available and disaster resilient platforms. Because most of these use cases now require that even though these are the management systems, they will be in some sort of a closed loop operations control. And having the downtime on these systems itself is going to impact the services in some form. So that is another new aspect that you have to be aware of. The other aspect of the VNFs and network services, like we talked about earlier to begin with in the first slide, that this is not virtual network functions are not sitting on a virtualization platform in isolation. These are not simple compute services that where you can deploy, let's say, 50 VMs, they do compute job, produce the result, produce the data, and they quit. It's nothing like that. These are the virtual machines that are getting connected, providing the data services in various forms, voice, video, and whatnot, to users who are connected in some physical form over the wide area network. So after creating the virtual network functions, stitching them together into the physical and networking infrastructure is absolutely critical. And if you don't do that end-to-end orchestration, you are talking about multiple systems. Now users have to go from console to console. And again, it is another operational nightmare if you do that. So having the adaptability to connect to a wide variety of physical and network infrastructure that is already there, and that will be there for quite some time to come, is a key requirement. And so are we just talking about some theory here? Or so far, we have been talking at a very, very high level. What are the requirements? And this is based on our experience, like Sudhir said, in number of tier one operator proof of concepts for this whole infrastructure, as well as some real-life integration with other vendors and systems in this environment. And we started the journey about three years back. The result is that the NFVO and VNM manager, Henry Quinn, VNM manager, was built as a cloud manager product in Ericsson. It basically covers the aspects that we talked about. We have an orchestration platform that is capable of orchestrating the VN apps and virtualized services in a geographically distributed infrastructure, and also stitch together the whole end to end flows and provide the operational capability using the FCAPS data that is being captured from all these wide variety of platforms. So that is a little bit about the product that we are talking about. These are some of the screenshots from the proof of concepts, et cetera, that we have done, showing you what the services look like, and you have some configuration management and some physical network function connectivity that was shown there. I think one of the slide had that. I think you have DNS server and it has a controller integration. And going a step further, the cloud manager product is just one part of the Ericsson's portfolio. Ericsson's portfolio covers the entire ecosystem of network function virtualization, and it consists of basically the Ericsson execution environment, which is based on OpenStack. We are providing the VM and NFVI layer. We have a brand new hardware platform, HDS-8000, which is a high-skill architecture. It's a disaggregated data center, if you are interested in it, you know, Ericsson Booth has a prototype as well, and it's pretty cool. And we have Ericsson Cloud Manager as NFU, and we have been a manager. And our network manager, Ericsson Network Manager, is specifically a manager for some of our virtual network functions in the environment. So that is the overall portfolio we have. In summary, we talked about four things. We talked about the need to cover virtual as well as physical network connectivity, fault and performance management, redundancy and disaster recovery. Adaptability is paramount, and standard APIs is what we need from such a platform. So I think with that, we are ready to take any questions you have. Can you come to the mic, please? I'm from China Mobile, and I do have a question. I see the slides in the middle. So your orchestrator can manage both non-working and, I mean, manual part, right? In the previous slide, you showed the network orchestrator, I mean, and also the separated Cloud Manager. So are you talking about the network orchestrator and the wing orchestrator, manual orchestrator is separated? What do we mean here? Can we both do that? No, they are not separated. Can I go slide back? Yes, you should. Next one? Next one? I mean, this one is integrated, but the second last slide, I think, this one? This one is integrated. I understand. Oh, you're talking about the next one. The portfolio. The portfolio. OK. So the network manager is, oh, the name is a little confusing. It's actually, it's a VNF manager for direction network functions. And it's a portfolio product. It's an existing product that already does the legacy. Already does the network function management for the physical functions. So you see that traditional native deployments? Then you have a separate either VNF manager. Right. So for Ericsson VNFs, we do have a domain manager. We can call it a specific VNF manager, but it does address the needs of various network functions in Ericsson. In absence of that, when a cloud manager is integrating, in absence of Ericsson network functions, then we do act as a generic VNF manager. That means absence. If not absence, so who is going to make this decision? So then the interface would be the NFV or VNFM interface. There is a VNFM interface between network manager and cloud manager. That's this interface. This would be the ENM, Ericsson network manager. This would be the Ericsson cloud manager in that. OK, so still, this one is top. Right. OK. Thank you. Sure. OK, so let me try different advocates. In a sense, integration with new technology, especially automation, with existing infrastructure has always been a challenge in any IT operators. So what do you think is the most peculiar thing in telco operators, which makes NFV very difficult to adopt? So let me repeat the question and tell me if I got it right or not. So the question is this kind of integration of new technologies in any environment has its challenges. But why is even more of a challenge in telco environment? Is that the question? Yes. OK, so again, my view, I would say the amount of infrastructure that exists in telco is tremendous. It is the infrastructure that you see today has been built up for the past 40, 50 years. And that infrastructure is not going away anywhere. Telco has very strict methods and operations that are required to provide the reliability. And some of this is in many domains of the world, it is mandated that they have to provide that kind of reliability. So integration of new technologies in that kind of operational environment is even more challenging because nobody is going to take any chance by just introducing a whole new technology without going through a lot of testing, a lot of verification. And that's the main challenge. Did I answer? Yes, it makes sense to me. So in the short words, the conservativeness of telco operators. I'm sorry? Is they a conservative? You can say that way. But it's a conservative for a reason. It's not just because they don't want to change. You see a lot of telco operators here, and you know. I mean, they have a very good reason why they are conservative about it, right? And we all know that, just the sheer size of the system. And you will see same thing in utility. If you want to go to utility industry, if you introduce new technology, these are the industries that are providing infrastructure. You can't just throw new things in there. Yeah, I know in that sense, every industry has its own difficulty and conservativeness. So I want to understand what particular in telco operators. Yes, it's a scale. You can say scale and the requirement for reliability that they desire. Okay, thank you. Yeah, thank you. One question, with tackle and heat coming, do you believe vendor should continue to spend money in orchestration functions like that, or do you believe it's going to take over anyway? I expected this question. And you can also say tackle. But here's the thing, right? When we started this journey, none of these guys existed, right? But we are looking at every one of them, and actually Ericsson Cloud Manager does support hot as one of the formats that you can deploy the system. So we do support stack operations as well. But like I mentioned in the beginning, it does solve, he does solve the orchestration at that particular whim. And yeah, there are some talks this time about multi-site, et cetera. We will definitely look at that. These things keep coming up, but the story, the whole story just does not stop at supporting orchestration and deployment and also supporting multi-site. The reality is you will be in a multi-vendor situation, right? And you will have to support customizable interfaces. So it's a services opportunity rather than a product opportunity? Combination, because we are ahead of the game, if I may. But yeah, it is still a services opportunity. Yeah, and if I may add, it's virtualization and its orchestration, it was going to happen. It is a no-brainer. It's not telco requirement. Orchestration of these complex workloads is required everywhere. So heat was going to happen. Multi-site is going to happen. And we don't want to say that, OK, we don't take advantage of that. Industry should take advantage of that and build on top of that. But some of these aspects that we are talking about, they have nothing to do with virtualization. And that's why the topic we chose, going beyond virtualization, what else do we need in the orchestration platforms? So that is why some of these aspects, F caps for the applications, you have to build that. The orchestration of physical network services, you have to build that, right? So it's going to all coexist. Nothing is going away. Can you open the slides? We were seeing, I think, the previous, I think, more. Oh, yeah, that one. I see the EMS, the VNFMS, is connecting to the third-party devices. I know that you guys are from the Erikson. You can connect to the Erikson devices. But you don't know how the other devices are. The CLIs, I think you guys can see the manuals from the other Windows devices. How are you going to develop the connectors, adapters? They are not out of the box. That's why we talked about the adaptation framework. So your framework is not rigid, and they're not fixed hard-coded APIs. You have to support some level of customization. So trigger points. If I do this, then you provide hooks into it so that someone can introduce custom logic into it or custom parameters into the flows. So that's where we are open, like providing a customer adaptation framework. So the customers, up on the request, what the customer want to use, the specific functions, then the part is developed. So the part cannot cover everything out of the box if anybody claims that they can cover everything. Just run. I understand. Thank you. Thanks for the question. So just to extend on that a little bit, the plug-in approach which most vendors use has its challenges from release management and future feature support. What are you guys doing to enable that to be a little bit smoother from a transition perspective? I think that is a very important point.  If you say that this is Java SDK, you are in that lockdown situation. Plug-ins have to be upgraded as soon as your framework changes are done. So keeping the loose coupling, and that's why I think Sudhir kept mentioning some of the triggers, the approaches we follow are like REST APIs, REST-based notifications, the callbacks, et cetera. Or message bus or things like that. Which decouples things completely so that, yeah. So I challenge vendors, and I'm being one of them, but is that going to make life easier or is the complexity of having so many plug-ins for so many different devices if I want to be in a multi-vendor environment going to be actually be a supportable solution from a carrier's perspective? The last point I'd like to make is though is there's two kind of models. Yes, everybody can use a plug-in which gets to your common bus, basically, or any other vendor's common bus. The other model is to have a standard for what the interface is, not the actual protocol used to transfer messages, but what an interface should look like and try to get vendors to standardize for their VNFs for that. Is that a model that you think is viable? Absolutely, that's the direction that we are talking about, but is it going to happen in one year, two years, three years? Yeah, it's loved by experience. It's basically the idea is that you standardize on these interfaces. I think this is great that after all this 30, 40 years of learning on OSS, BSS systems and EMSs and all that, everybody has come together and said that let's define the interfaces between systems. Let's not just say that, put everything and we'll keep putting plug-ins or putting things together on the message buses. So I think your comment is very valid. Great. Thank you. So maybe just a follow-on question there. Let's see, I've been following some work in the IETF and they're there defining these Yang models and it allows you to talk to the device over NetConf and it's kind of that standard type of interface where you're not standardizing an exact API. It's more of a model. The content you pass is not standardized. How you talk to those devices is standardized and the models can be fared into. So one of the things that we didn't talk about is the southbound adaptation that we are talking about is based on such a device model that we have built a platform that takes the device models and supports NetConf. But at the same time, it also supports CLI and whatever other things that you have because that's the physical reality. That's the reality, exactly. And I mean, we actually are going through a real deployment case where we do support NetConf and CLI, so. Yeah, because that approach looks very promising to me.  That's kind of. No, we agree. As long as people don't go in 10 different directions then I think. Hopefully the whole industry merges in that direction. Yeah, exactly. Thank you. Any other questions? Awesome. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you all. Thank you.


RealisticGaming here. Today we're here with Mikey. What up? Oh my god. Alright, so having announced me for the channel, Mikey's gonna be uploading some videos like on... Just a couple days, you might see like double uploads where it's me and Mikey, or it might just be Mikey himself on the video. Which should be pretty cool, right? Right, Mike? Yeah! Yeah, it should be pretty cool, right? I don't know. Let me know what you guys think down in the comments below. I think it should be awesome because like, what if I can't do a video or something? Or if something comes down, we have Mikey as a backup. Like, he could put up different content than what I do, or something similar to it. I think it would be pretty cool. I'll be RG also. I'll say Yeet, you know, here and there, you know. Killin' Yeet on the boys too. Alright, so today we're gonna be reacting to a Mr. Meat Canyon, we're on the channel. We're gonna be reacting to a secret formula video, and it is a SpongeBob video. You know his videos are creepy and weird, but they're pretty awesome. So, hey, get ready to get freaked out, Mike. Alright, let's go. I'm ready. Alright, let's see how it goes. Should we make a voice? Oh, yes, I rebunded that. A wonderful day at the Krusty Krab. Oh, my God. Wait, what's going on? Why is it not going? Okay, there you go. Servicing. Dude, what's always SpongeBob? Oh, I don't remember seeing this episode. Yeah, this is like a 666 episode. Oh, my God, it's way too weird. More. Dude, look at his teeth. More of that. Secret formula. Oh, the secret formula. Dude, this is so creepy. Oh, no. That's the cheese. Ew. I knew it. He's got a cheese. That's so nasty. Oh, Mr. Krabs. I didn't want to see Mr. Krabs. Oh. That's cute. That's good. He doesn't like too bad. That's a squidward. He just wrinkly. It do. Did I get SpongeBob? Sponge me, boy. Maybe a bit more of that. Secret formula. Yeah, I don't want another secret formula no more. Is that good, Mr. Krabs? He's like warranty. That's how old Mr. Krabs wants it, but... Oh, this is so weird. He's got the dog wants it. Are you watching? Oh, God. This is what I have to go for, man. I can feel it, Mr. Krabs. What is he doing to him? He's in the old honey jar, isn't he? You can take as much as you want, Mr. Krabs. Okay, this is weird. Krabs got a stud, bro. Don't leave me out. I need you, SpongeBob. They're like feeding off to SpongeBob right now. Yeah, we want to take that. Secret formula. Dude, they're just like eating away. Oh, my God. Whoa! Oh. Are they about to eat SpongeBob right now? Oh, wait. He's enjoying it, too, bro. He's just laying down. Dude, look, this guy's missing. He's all right. He's got some big legs, bro. Did I satisfy you all? All right. You did me, boy. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What?  I love my job at the Krusty Krab. I wouldn't change for anything. He has pretty big legs. Yeah, look at his legs, bro. He's like a track star. I fulfill their needs. Frankly, I don't think I could stop even if I wanted to. What? His face is so weird. I don't want to stop when people love what you do. That's what happens when you leave the cheese pizza in the oven for, like, 10 hours. 10 years, bro. Is that it? Please let it be it. My God, bro. I wasn't ready for that, bro. Yeah, well, that was so weird. SpongeBob was like the secret formula, and they were, like, feeding off of him. And he actually works out on his legs a lot. He's not his legs. I'm still impressed with the legs. SpongeBob was, like, fulfilling their little whatever it was, then feeding off of him. I don't know, bro. I feel weird watching that. I should have watched that. Alright, well, now on to the next video. Alright, so we're here on a night's night channel. We're going to be watching scared to poop. Slendy Bob. Are you ready for this, Mike? I don't think you're ready for this, bro. I'd be having nightmares watching this video. Slendy Bob is back. I feel it, David. It's just beneath us. Okay, okay. I feel like a monster. Oh, my God. Oh, okay. Can I hear the scary music? Oh! Oh, my God, bro. Okay, okay. Dirty barnacles. I've got to do something to save myself. There's only one way out. What is she puffed since she's, like, scared? I'm away from that homicidal maniac. Oh, my God. Smile. I've got to end this thing before it begins. Shit, bro. Why are you still alive? Yo. Oh! Where's this piece, Mrs. Puff? Oh, there you go. I cannot remember a day, bro. I am a realistic talking fish head. Here is the news. Voting instructor, Mrs. Puff, has been found dead at her school today. Oh, no. It's not good. They're playing Plankton? Hey, I was watching that.  You're just a computer. I am the evil genius around here. Oh. It's Slendy Bob. Of course, it's Slendy Bob, man. You'll never forget. He's mighty born and old. Got him. I don't think he's dead, bro. What happened? He can't survive. Oh, his eyes. He got you, bro. Oh, dude, why does he have spikes on his house? Because he knows it was Slendy Bob's extra room. It's a giraffe. Oh, this is the classic. So I was about to break down. I remember six. I want blood. I want blood. Oh. That's why there were spikes. I didn't do Patrick like Patrick. That was his boy. Why is that coming out of his pants like that? Dude, that's his boy. How can he do it like that, man? Oh, that's Doodle Bomb. Bro, you know all these names. Doodle Bomb versus Slendy. Gary. Gary's dead. He has the hero we needed. Oh, he's going to be racist. You don't want to mess with Slendy Bob. He put everything on fire, bro. That terraces us. Dude, look at the town. It's all chaotic. 2020 in a nutshell. Wait, where is he at? Oh, dude, he's coming over here, bro. Don't move over here. Look at my downtown. We're always coming over here, man. Oh, baby. Oh, no. Dude, there's a lot of Slendy Bob going on right here. Man, I didn't even know Slendy Bob was a thing. Dude, that was terrifying, man. I don't know. Which one did you like better? The Me Canyon one or the Slendy Bob? The Me Canyon one kind of scarred me for life. Yeah, that one was freaky. You know, it was cool. But the first one just... I'm going to have nightmares, bro. I'm going to have nightmares on that one, man. The thing was too creepy. Mike's going to have nightmares now. All right, you guys. Well, those were some scary Swiss Bob videos. Slendy Bob, whatever you want to call it. Slendy Bob VXC. You know, it's the same thing overall. All right, you guys. Well, anything you want to say, Mike? That's it, bro. Just be ready to see me a couple of times. You know, some people will say hi.


Once upon a time I knew a lad, he had a mum but he didn't have a dad. The dad had walked off when the water's broke, so he never was around when the baby awoke. When the baby awoke he was 12 years of age and he felt like his head was a barb wide cage.  He did go to school but he got into bubble cos he didn't fit in and he didn't have the club. He knows what you are, is not what you were but you know how it is and it just isn't fair. Y cwisio'r cwisio i'r eich roi yn dweud, ac ac mae'n dweud i'rhowch, mae'n ddweud am gyda all gwaith, ac os gallwch yn fwy i fyny i ddydd yn barth ar gyfer oed i chi'r oeddi, i chi'n g sever, ac yn ddigbethau oeddu oeddi. Rhywbethwyr'r rhywbeth wedi mynd, ac mae'n gweinio i'r oeddi, ac mae'r gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio hynny, pan'i ddweud i'r gwybod, mae'r gymaint yn gwneud yn dashion yn pa'r tynnu'n ddweud Health management authorities had said she was clinically depressed. So he stayed at home when he should of been at school. Well rules and rules, look at the paper and the data from the噬t cities you've got further behind than the hill's got steeper. He's not quite a teen, but feels a lot older carrying the burden on his wise shoulders. He didn't share private stuff and blind to the world as he cares.


Hello all. In this video, I'm going to demonstrate how to use mainly reference manager software. The reference manager not only helps us in altering or changing the positions of the references and renumbering it correctly, but also it helps us in creating the stale example. Van Koover or Harvard, whatever the journal or university asks. So out of the reference manager software, the most commonly used to softwares are mainly nzotero and both are freely available and easy to use. In this video, I'm going to show how to use mainly reference manager. The first step in using mainly reference manager is we need to have two downloads done. Our first download is the mainly desktop and this mainly desktop will be specific for the OS, which may be Windows, Mac OS or Linux. So depending upon the operating system which you are using, you can download the mainly desktop and you can install it. After the successful installation of mainly desktop, you can see a mainly icon in your desktop. This is an indication for successful installation of mainly desktop. The second important download is the mainly web importer download, which will be specific for the browser which you use. This mainly desktop is for the OS which you use and web importer is for the browser which you use. Here in this case, it is Chrome. So web importer for Chrome is available. This is an extension. So after the successful installation of this extension, the main icon will appear here. Web importer is available for Safari, Internet Explorer and Mozilla. After the two downloads of mainly desktop and web importer, the third step is to sign in into the mainly desktop. So after successful signing in, creating an account, you will get an ID here. After creating that ID, you can create a separate folder demonstration. Okay, so the demonstration folder will appear here. Then the fourth important step is to go to the tools. Then we need to install MS Word plugin. Since I have already installed mainly plugin into MS Word, it is showing uninstall MS Word plugin. Otherwise, it will show install MS Word plugin. So after successful installation of MS Word plugin, the mainly icon will appear in the Word. So here these are all the insert citation key, refresh key, insert bibliography key and open mainly key. Here we can keep the style. I have kept Vancore style as the style here, which is commonly used. We can change the reference style here. We can get more styles also. So we have crossed four steps. The first two steps are downloading mainly desktop and web importer. The third step is to sign in into mainly. The fourth step is to install MS Word plugin. So after ensuring this process, the fifth step is to open mainly and arrange the references. There are four ways where you can collect your reference. First is you can add manually. This is going to be the most time consuming process. We need to select the type of the reference, whether it is a journal article or a book or a web page, etc. So here I am typing the journal article. I am just typing diabetes. I am entering my name here journal. I am just typing in short forms the year volume three issue two page number five to eight. If I feed all the data here and click on save, after saving the manual entry, the reference will appear like this. So this is the first method where you can add reference that is adding the reference manually. The second method is to add the reference using the mainly web importer. So here the web importer extension is here. So by opening the web page, clicking on the mainly desktop, the web importer will get the data from the site and it will ask for whether you need to add any PDF or not. So suppose if you want to read this journal later, then you can download this PDF and add into the mainly reference manager. Otherwise you need not add this. So for just for the referencing purpose, you can tick on the reference and add to the my library. Once it is added, after this what you need to do is you need to go back and synchronize here this because I have not added in the demonstration folder there. It will not appear here, but it will appear in all documents. So what I should do is I should check whether this article information given here is correct or not. So if I have any suspicion, then I should go for search. So using the online database, it will alter the data. It may be correct or wrong. So you need to check whether this data is correct or not. So this web importer process needs internet and there is a chance that incorrect information will be feed and it is complicated also. The third method and the fourth method is going to be the easiest method and the accurate method. If you have the PDF of the article here, then you can just drag this PDF into the folder. Then automatically the importing file will happen. It will get the information and the reference will be loaded like this. The fourth way where you can download the article is through the website. You can download this reference file. So here if you download directly, the file will appear. This file is called as RISRIS file. So you can drag this file and keep it here. So automatically the data will be imported. So this fourth method is going to be the easiest method and the most accurate method also. So it is available in all the standard sites and also in Google scholar. If suppose your article is here, you can click on this site button. So here I am downloading the refman. Again it is going to be in the RIS file. So I am downloading it, dragging it and making it here. I want to add this article. So refman will give you the RIS file. So I am downloading, dragging and keeping it here. So it has given five references. So how it is going to be helpful in my write-up is, I am going to write here. I am going to insert citation because I need a citation here. I am going to cite the first reference, cite. Then I am writing some other content. I am going to insert citation, go to mainly, then the second reference. I am citing. All these references has been added in a different manner. That is four methods. First one is added manually. Second one was through the web importer. Third one was through the PDF. Then the fourth and fifth was using the RIS files. I am citing the second format here. The third format which is a PDF here. And the fourth format which is a RIS file downloaded from my website. Then the fourth, the fifth format which is manually entered. So after some time I am writing here references or the bibliography. So what I should do is, I should click on this insert bibliography by keeping the cursor here. Then automatically all your references will appear in Vancouver format. Same article has appeared twice in three and four. So for that what we should do is, we should go to the tools and here click check for duplicates. So it is asking that there are three references through two PDF imports and one RIS. It is looking similar. So it will ask for confirm merge like that. So the two documents have been merged into one. So automatically this will appear. After doing this checking for duplicates, what we should do is, we should reference again. So it will ask like this whether you are going to confirm this merge. Yes, I am confirming. So automatically the references will be changed and it will be altered without any exhausting effort. The referencing work has been done. So later if I want to add or change any of this, I want to move this reference above to the top. Then I am altering like this means. Then what I should do is, I should just click refresh automatically, the references will get altered. I am going to summarize the steps. We have downloaded the mainly desktop, mainly web importer. After downloading the mainly desktop, we have gone to tools. We have installed MS Word plugin. After MS Word plugin, this call this group of icons will appear here. I have showed what are the four ways to add references in the mainly desktop that is manually entering the data and the web importer data, PDF data, downloading the RIS files. So after doing that, we can easily insert our citation, alter our merge our citation. What other things which we can do with mainly desktop is that we can create groups and people can collaborate. The other advantage with the mainly is since it is an online tool, we can sign in into a different device and you can use the same reference also. So these are all advantages of mainly. So the usage of reference manager will help you immensely in your management of all references. Hope this presentation was useful to you. Please subscribe to my channel. Thank you very much.