Coming up on DTNS, it's a virtual mobile world Congress with new mobile gear from Sony, Realme and Huawei. But can Huawei's awesome design stand without Google Play access? Plus, the Xbox Series X is better than your graphics card and why Apple might ditch Intel. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, February 24th, 2020 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. And I'm Roger Chang, the show's producer. I could not be happier to be with you, folks. Today, we were just having a great time on Good Day Internet, reminiscing about technologies of yesteryear and movie theaters and the like. You got to get that show, folks. Good Day Internet. Become a member at patreon.com slash DTNS. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. On Saturday, Samsung confirmed an employee had contracted the COVID-19 coronavirus. Samsung's factory in Gumi, Korea was shut down until Monday morning. And the floor where the infected person worked will remain shut down until the morning of February 25th. Co-workers who came into contact with the infected employee will be self quarantined and tested for infection. The Gumi factory makes a small number of high end Samsung phones for the Korean market. Google published a support article saying that any Huawei devices released after May 16th, 2019 lack play protect certification. That means any side loaded Google apps will not work reliably. Devices released before May 16th by Huawei will continue to receive support and security updates as long as that is permitted. The Wall Street Journal sources say that NBC Universal is in talks to buy Voodoo from Walmart. If acquired, Voodoo may reportedly be merged with Fandango now in a move to help bolster NBC use digital video presence ahead of the launch of its Peacock streaming service. The information reported back in October that Walmart was looking to sell Voodoo. All right, let's talk a little bit more about what's going on with Google in Europe. Let's do it. Search Engine Land reports that Google rolled out an updated search engine result page in the EU that highlights alternative directory sources for a search query. So these show up as a directory box in search results labeled find results on dot, dot, dot, depending on what you're searching for with links to services like Yelp or Yale or Sylex. These aren't labels ad units and they appear to be algorithmically selected by Google. Search Engine Land says that the system was being tested in Germany, but now appears to be live in at least the UK, in Belgium, in Spain, in Greece and in France does not appear too different from Google's rival links remedy, which was proposed back in 2013. You might recall it was criticized at the time as ineffective by Yelp and rejected by the European Commission. Yeah, the only big difference that I can tell is that that 2013 proposal just had the name of the service and a link and a little box around it and this new thing that's rolling out will have an example result. It'll have a little line that says, you know, this kind of thing to kind of get you to click. So I don't know, maybe Google found that's all you needed to make people click, but this is not mandated. This is not Google agreeing to something and putting it in place. This is Google just launching something potentially with the idea of getting ahead of any complaints that may or may not be filed. There are definitely complaints that are going to be filed about alternative directories and this may be a chance to try to subvert that, try to take the wind out of its sails before the complaint gets filed. Yeah, you know, Yelp has historically had such an issue with Google search results, although there are many times I've just gotten so good at my search, my search queries that I kind of know how to make Yelp be the top, the search result when I'm when I'm looking for something where I'm like, I actually kind of want to read some Yelp reviews. Why don't you just go to Yelp? Well, I don't know, Tom, because I'm just conditioned in a certain way. But sure, but I do. But I do kind of I can see where Google being like, listen, let's kind of add some some some boxes in here related to popular places that people are looking for anyway. They're not ads and we're and we're playing fair, well, you know, or attempting to and I don't know as somebody who's who's looking for stuff all the time, I think this is good. I guess, I mean, I don't think this is going to satisfy anybody because it was basically rejected. I'm not sure adding a little bit of extra text is going to change anybody's mind about it. Yeah. And it doesn't seem that helpful to me. Like you say, Yelp results show up in the search results already. Like I don't need another link to tell me that. I don't know. Maybe if you're in the UK and you're like, oh, no, I never see Sylex results. So this will be helpful to remind me that Sylex exists. But I don't know. I don't know that this really helps me as a user.  Like if you don't need them, do you need them to be pushed on you?  But, you know, it's kind of what what works for you. Listen, I don't want I just don't want the cure to be worse than the disease. Don't don't make the results less useful for me by trying to fix them. You're right. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Microsoft announced the GPU in the upcoming Xbox Series X will be capable of 12 teraflops, double the performance of the Xbox One X and more than eight times the original Xbox One. Microsoft previously said the console would use a custom AMD Zen 2 APU, but now we know it will also use the Radeon RDNA2 architecture, which includes hardware ray tracing functionality. Microsoft also confirmed more details about the support for variable ray shading, which lets a game shade an area of pixels at a different rate than the typical one to one. So that things makes things a little more efficient and a quick resume feature that lets you resume multiple games so you can suspend multiple games. You don't have to go one by one like you do now and the idea being instead of reloading the game, you can just pick up right where you left off in multiple games. Microsoft confirmed the console will also support HDMI 2.1. That includes variable refresh rates, auto low latency modes as part of the spec. And Microsoft says they have their own spin on them to make them better. But basically, Microsoft really getting a lot of attention with the quick resume feature, which a lot of people say they wanted and now they're going to get. And the fact that this GPU performance is better than a lot of mid-range GPUs out there right now. Yeah, I mean, besides me kind of picking out their naming convention, which is starting to get a little bit silly, although Microsoft is not the only company to do that. We'll talk about that a little later in the show. You mean the Xbox One, the Xbox One X and the Xbox Series X are perfectly clear to you? No, they're really not. They're not. I'm sure they're perfectly clear to somebody at Microsoft. But you know, besides that, that aside, what is most exciting about this? Like, are you are you going to buy? Are you going to buy this console and why? I mean, the quicker zoom is getting a lot of attention because it's a feature everybody wants. But the but the reason you buy one of these is because you want that performance right there on your television or in your game studio, you know, in your little game den and and and so 12 teraflops. That's decent performance and games will be able to take advantage of that. There's a lot of backwards compatibility. If you want a game console, this is the one to get whether this actually persuades someone who is thinking they might want to get along without a game console. I don't think those people were that worried about performance anywhere. You wouldn't be considering something else. So so this is this is good for the the folks who want a game console for sure. Let's move on to a YouTube type. I don't know a series of channels that I just learned about today. The chilled cow YouTube channel was mistakenly terminated for violating terms of service over the weekend, which ended the channel's lo-fi hip hop live stream. What this did was result in a video over 13,000 hours long with other with over 218 million views. The channel was reinstated less than a day later and YouTube support Twitter account tweeted that it shared feedback with our review team to prevent similar errors from happening in the future. So this was just kind of a mistake. Now, if you're not familiar with chilled cow, chilled cow and other music streaming channels don't own the rights to the music being played, but they can get permission from artists and labels to play them. So you often hear a little bit more underground artists kind of stuff. Doesn't stop a party submitting a content ID claim on the channel. However, yeah, the point being they were doing it legally. They were licensing stuff. They weren't just grabbing stuff and playing it without permission. And they still ran into content ID. Now, granted, it took 13,000 hours for them to run into that, which is pretty impressive. And the reason you get that 13,000 hour long video is they've been going long live that long. And then when the live thing stops, it automatically archives that. Of course, that video was not playable. And now it's just kind of sitting there as a testament to how long it ran. Not anything that you'd use, but the channel's back. And and this it's just on the one hand, it's another example of YouTube's content ID situation is just broken. It may not be broken most of the time for most people, but it is definitely broken. This shouldn't happen.  And the algorithm just goes out and takes them down because it doesn't know any different. And this happens all the time where somebody submits a claim for something they don't own, but there's no barrier to doing that in a lot of cases. So something like this happens, granted, chilled cow has enough profile that they were able to get it fixed right away. But somebody like Scott Johnson, who doesn't have as big of a profile with YouTube is chilled cow, took him weeks to get a mistake like this resolved. So there's that side of it. The other side of it is I'm delighted that, Sarah, you finally discovered the wonders of the chilled cow. It's pretty great. Oh, my gosh, this morning I read the story. I knew we were going to talk about it. And I asked a friend because I'm a hip hop fan. I'm like, what's lo-fi hip hop?  That's like background music. I was like, oh, OK, that's a genre I'm not familiar with. Got it.  You know, it's kind of doing homework. She's got a cat looking out the window, snowing outside. That was a joke when it went down. They're like, oh, I guess she finished her homework. She finished her homework. Yeah. But I kind of, I'm watching it and I'm like, this is weird. And then I'm like, there are 45,000 other people listening to the stream with me right now, you know, at 8 a.m. Pacific time kind of thing. And it's fascinating. And there are many others. Oh, no, I have used them. There's there's a couple that are specifically child directed and they're just lullabies. They call them like 12 hours of lullabies or seven hours of lullabies where you just play it. And hopefully your child sleeps to it. Right. But there's also ones for meditation. There's ones that are just, you know, nothing but synthwave and stuff.  So yeah, it's it's it's probably just the soothing music where you can work to it and it doesn't get in your way, right? Because it's very background. But also the the ability to just look up every once in a while and see another person working, you know, and there's the working on our home. You almost like it's like a yule log. Right. Yeah. We're like every once in a while, something different happens. So you feel like it's real. Mm hmm. But it's but it's not distracting. Right.  How about an Apple rumor? How about it? Well, normally I'd say no. But Ming-Chi Kuo brought this one. And Ming-Chi Kuo has a very good record of these things being right. New note from Apple analyst. Ming-Chi Kuo predicts Apple will release an arm based Mac in the next 12 to 18 months. So he's not the first to predict an arm based Mac. As a matter of fact, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, also who has a very good track record reported on an early stage Apple initiative to transition Macs to arm back in 2018. That is reportedly codenamed Kalamata. Ming-Chi Kuo says we're going to get our first device with one of these in 12 to 18 months. The chip will reportedly be built on a five nanometer process and is expected to be used in the upcoming 2020 flagship iPhone as well. So it's going to go into the iPhone. And Ming-Chi Kuo is saying it'll also go into a laptop. The switch to arm would give Apple more flexibility with hardware updates because the same way they they own the chip with iPhone, they would now own it on the laptop. Right now, they're dependent on Intel's development pipeline. I don't think they abandon Intel altogether right away. I think you still need the more powerful chips than arm can deliver in your MacBook Pro. But that means you'd have to have a system where Apple apps are useful across two architectures, not just across operating systems like iOS, iPadOS and Mac OS, but across Intel and ARM. So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they'll just wholly switch over to the arm the way they switched when they went from went to Intel in the first place. My guess is we'll have to hear something about this at WWDC in June because Steve Trout and Smith pointed out on on Twitter that if this is true within 12 to 18 months, then developers need to start preparing for it now. And we would expect to see some kind of transitional arrangement, whether it's an SDK or an emulator or something like that at WWDC to make this workable.  Does that mean more work for developers? Is this something that is, you know, they're excited to have and long coming or somewhere in between? I mean, it's definitely more work. And that's why Steve Trout and Smith is saying, you better tell us something at WWDC because we want to know how much more work it's going to be. It could be easy work. It could be hard work. It could be somewhere in between. And I wonder also if, if indeed, like you said, Intel processors aren't going to be just like completely abandoned and it's going to be some sort of a combination of the two across a lot of Apple products. What does that look like? How does that get? How does that get explained to the consumer or does it? Well, how many care in the Mac App Store? It's easy to manage. You just tell people like, OK, you're when you submit your your app to the Mac App Store, you have to submit an arm and a Intel version and we'll put it out in the in the right place. And if you don't, you'll only show up in the App Store for the proper versions, right? But for people who like me, like to go out and download things independently, it means a lot of rogue amoeba, all these independent software developers are going to think harder about going into the Mac App Store or they may have to offer multiple versions like they did for a while when there were still people with older Macs on non-intel hardware. Hmm. Well, we'll find out soon enough. Well, maybe we won't. Hopefully we will. Maybe. Maybe Mingxi goes wrong this time. It's rarely pretty good track record. Last Friday, security expert Bruce Schneider, Bruce Schneier, rather, announced that he joined Tim Berners-Lee's Inrupt Company as chief of security architecture. And that was last summer in stealth mode, so we didn't hear about it until now. Schneier previously worked with Inrupt CEO John Bruce at Counterpane and Resilient. Inrupt is the company that's trying to bring the solid technology of distributed data ownership to market. Solid is an open source project to create a container of your personal information that gives you control over what companies can access which parts of your digital information. Schneier calls Inrupt the red hat to solids Linux. Yeah, so this is significant. First of all, it's significant that they got somebody of Bruce Schneier's caliber on the security side. This isn't a security company. It's a company that needs very good security, though. So that's really good that they could convince Bruce Schneier to join in on this. It also is significant that Bruce Schneier finally said, look, I joined last summer, but it's time for me to tell you, because that implies they are getting funding, which they are, and they're going to start making things more public and maybe have some usable versions of this.  And if so, how much and you can revoke it at any time so that your data isn't stored on their servers. They just have access to your data like anything, of course, anything's copyable and there would have to be some auditing to make sure that they aren't copying and keeping data that they shouldn't. So it's not like foolproof, but it's way better than right now where you have no choice but to store your personal information on a server and just hope that they treat it well and very often they don't. Solid obviously is going to need third party companies to host it the way we have email hosts, web hosts and that sort of thing. And Inrupt is one of those companies that would provide that service. It also needs companies to adopt it. Tim Berners-Lee has said, look, we don't expect Facebook to adopt this out of the gate, but we hope we can get enough companies to adopt it that it starts to gain momentum to the point that the big companies feel pressure to adopt it. Well, and the sort of like announcement of like, hey, guess what? I did last summer, you know, really points to we're getting close to something that we're proud of. Yeah, yeah, and ready to talk about and we'll need to talk about the security of it and to talk about the security of it. We'll need our chief security architecture to be publicly acknowledging it. So yeah, can't wait to find out more. Hey, folks, if you get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, that means you're subscribed to DailyTechHeadlines.com. If you don't, you can fix that error right now. Go subscribe at DailyTechHeadlines.com. All right, time for our Mobile World Congress announcements, not from Mobile World Congress, because of course that got canceled. But Sony announced a phone, the Xperia One Mark Two. It's the Xperia One with a Roman numeral two. That's how they like to say it, the One Mark Two smartphone. It's a 6.5 inch 4K HDR OLED, 21 9 aspect ratio, Snapdragon 865, 8 gigabytes of RAM, 256 gigabytes of storage, has a micro SD card slot, a 4,000 milliamp hour battery, IP68 water resistance, wireless charging and a headphone jack. Oh, boy. Y'all are always complaining. Then you want a headphone jack. Well, this one's got it.  I'll get to that in a minute. It has 5G. It does not support millimeter wave. That's really interesting because the 865 can support it. They just chose not to.   This is the phone for you. Symmetrical bezels on the top and bottom. How's the camera and the speakers? Cameras are pretty nice. Sony makes really good cameras and they put one in their own phone here. Three rear 12 megapixel cameras, time of flight sensor, including a 24 millimeter lens on the main camera, 16 millimeter ultra wide, 70 millimeter telephoto. Sony says the camera can hit 20 frames per second, supports eye tracking, autofocus on humans and animals and calculates exposure and focus 60 times a second. All you need to do is be in Europe in the late spring and plunk down a thousand one hundred ninety nine euros. And it's yours. Well, luckily, since Sony, you know, is the best selling smartphone maker worldwide. This sounds like another hit. I'm being I'm being I'm being I'm being unkind. I think you think you made a mistake in your last sentence. We regret the error. I'm being unkind. The thing is, this is this is I'm a Sony fan. I'm kind of a Sony stan as as millennials would say, yeah, I am. I always have been. That said, Sony has a very, very small share of the smartphone market. This is not a phone. I mean, it's it's the specs are great, not not super cheap. I don't know how this makes inroads to compete with, you know, the big guys. Yeah, I mean, it's a great camera, but there are also other great cameras. Right. I describe it as Sony refuses to stop making phones. Here's their latest. Just going to keep doing that. OK, Huawei, however, does sell quite a few phones. In fact, the most in the world from certain points of view or second to Samsung, depending on how you look at it, Huawei announced the Mate XS foldable and the Mate Pro 5G tablet in Barcelona, just at a private event. The Mate XS features the same eight inch display when unfolded as the original Mate X, but Huawei claims it's 80 percent stronger and it has an enhanced falcon wing folding mechanism when it's closed. If you remember, the device features a six point six inch front display and a six point three eight inch rear display, so it doesn't fold the screen in. It folds the screen out inside. The tablet is a Kirin nine ninety five G chipset, eight gigs ram, five hundred twelve gigabytes of storage, forty five hundred milliamp hour battery. And it starts at twenty four ninety nine. That's two thousand four hundred ninety nine euros coming in late 2020. The Mate Pad Pro 5G is not foldable, but it is an Android tablet with ten point eight inch AMOLED display, that nine ninety five G chipset, six or eight gigs ram, two hundred fifty six storage, seven thousand two hundred fifty milliamp hour battery, which can also act as a seven point five watt wireless charger, tablets for wireless chargers start to make sense. As a dual rear camera system launching in April with a Wi-Fi model starting at five hundred forty nine euros, not bad. And five G models starting at seven hundred forty nine euros. Both devices run the EM UI 10 interface. That's Huawei's own interface. A top Android 10, the open source project featuring the Huawei app gallery. There is no play services here. An optional M pencil is ninety nine euros and a detachable keyboard. Also optional is one hundred twenty nine euros. And finally, Huawei also updated the MateBook X Pro with a green color option and Intel 10th gen processors and the MateBook D budget lineup. Also got 10th gen processors. The MateBook X Pro comes in April starting at fourteen ninety nine euros. No Google Play, though. Yeah, and that's really important here.  However, that aside, I'm like, this looks really good. Yeah, but you know, but Huawei has to there's there's a Google situation going on here. They say they've got a thousand plus apps in their app gallery, but that's not a lot and they won't talk about which apps they have, which implies they are missing some pretty popular apps. Yeah, I don't I don't I don't know what I mean. This does feel like a stop gap kind of thing to you.  It feels like they have no idea. And they're like, well, this is what we've got for now when we have really good hardware. So let's make the most of it. Right. They are going to look nice. They are going ahead with their flagship phone announcement on March 26th in Paris. That's not because of Mobile World Congress. They always do a March announcement. We'll see if anything changes by then. But yeah, right now it's not it's not great. And it'll be this is where the rubber meets the road to see if Huawei can still sell these phones in Europe without having the Google Play services on board. Real real quickly before we wrap up the virtual MWC coverage, Realme, a subsidiary of BBK. Those are the folks that also make OPPO and vivo phones. Realme announced the Realme X50 Pro. This is similar to the Realme X50. The not pro version of the phone was announced last month with 5G and 120 Hertz display. The pro version has the Snapdragon 865 chipset, so it has the wider 5G compatibility, Wi-Fi 6, LPDDR5 RAM, 65 watt fast charging, better in display fingerprint reader, some improved camera and audio. But notably, it's a smaller screen. The pro is 6.44 inches and 90 Hertz refresh rate AMOLED, whereas the non pro is 6.57 inches with that 120 Hertz display. Realme X50 Pro launches in Spain in April, starting at 599 euros, maxing out at 749 euros with more markets to come. Realme is doing very well in India. Market share of their group 400 percent on the year in Q3. So it's making some progress. But they're launching this one to start in Spain because they want to build out that European audience. It's kind of fascinating the fact that MWC was canceled, but all the stuff that was going to get announced still getting announced. Turns out the world still spends. Dribs and drabs. You don't have to be there to announce it. And even in Huawei's case, you can still be in Barcelona and announce it. That's right. Hey, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit. Sort of your own kind of announcements when you want us to know about a story that you care about. You can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. You can also join in the conversation in our Discord. It is a fun time. You can join by linking to a Patreon account at patreon.com slash DTNS. All right, in our thing of the day, Nate Langson is back with us and he poses a question. Would you quit over barcodes? Because one UK man did find out what other fun stuff is coming up on the next text message podcast. There's a store in the UK that's been in business since the 1700s, but its manager resigned this week after the parent company said they wanted to introduce barcodes to the products themselves. Yes, barcodes. Plus, our telecoms regulator is also looking into why some people in the UK are being charged the equivalent of hundreds of dollars to keep hold of an email account provided by their ISP. So it's a good time to check out my show text message at UKtechshow.com and hear what's going on this side of the Atlantic. That's UKtechshow.com. I was in agreement with Nate on the barcode story. I was not in agreement with either one of them on the ISP email story, but you'll have to listen in to find out what those sides are UKtechshow.com. All right, let's check out the mailbag. Let's do it. VJ was surprised in our conversation last week that Tom made the argument that a politician using deep fakes to reach a certain linguistic demographic. You might recall this was happening in India. Could be thought of as a natural extension of accessibility. He felt like it was important to understand the nuances of regional languages in a diverse country like India and how closely tied it is to cultural biases. VJ writes, Indian politics has always rooted in populism for gullible masses and pandering to the unique differences of each community. So it's an unfair advantage for a politician to use technology to trick their electorate into thinking he is one of them and can speak their language more so because there are a lot of emotional. There's a lot of emotional rhetoric used, which becomes very potent and effective when delivered as a deep fake. Even more problematic is that the delivery method is WhatsApp groups. The recipient has no way of verifying the deep fake and will instantly believe what they see in their very own echo chamber. VJ finishes up by saying, Roger rightfully made the case for this not being a natural extension of accessibility with subtitles and dubbing being more appropriate ways to do this. Yes, I often will take a side of an argument to provoke thoughts and responses and VJ rose to the occasion, not only backing up what Roger was saying, but adding some, I think, useful insight about the fact that, you know, in India, the English is a language across the continent, but there are so many subgroups that that live and breathe within their own languages. And this means something different in that kind of context and adding the WhatsApp point on top of that, I think it's really good. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, VJ. Also, shout out to our patrons at our master and grandmaster levels. Include Dean, Paul Boyer, Dustin Campbell and Andrew Bradley.  You get good day internet. You get the editor's desk, where I talk about behind the scenes of how the show is done, give you a little more depth. You get live with it. We're Sarah and Roger now. And I think Scott Johnson is going to do one live with products and talk about them. They don't just do a quick review. There's plenty of people who do that, but they talk about what it's like to actually use this in everyday life. If you want to get more of that great content, become a patron, please. Patreon.com slash DTNS. And if you have feedback for us, our email address is a great way to let us know. Feedback at DailyTechNewShow.com. We're also live Monday through Friday, 4 30 p.m. Eastern, 21 30 UTC. And you can find out more at DailyTechNewShow.com slash live. Back tomorrow with Patrick Beja. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at FrogPants.com. The club hopes you have enjoyed this program.


Good morning, and welcome everyone to the epistemi nine. It is an online international conference to review research on science technology and mathematics education epistemi is a flagship conference in science education research, organized by the homey Hava Center for Science Education, TIFR, and this conference is ninth in the epistemi row, but epistemi nine is unique in some sense because this is also the first fully online epistemi conference. And as a co-convener myself, Deepa Chari, and my colleague, Ayush Gupta, we are very proud and equally excited that we have gathered around us participants who will experience an enriched science education research discussion space, which is essentially made available through the epistemi nine for next five days. Today is our welcome session and the first day of this international conference. And before starting the actual program, we would like to start with by expressing our sincere gratitude to all the plenary speakers, to the speakers, which involves oral as well as poster presenters, all the conference participants, reviewers, all the session chairs and moderators who really helped us to design the program, how it appears as of today. And also thanks to the large team of HBCSE including our advisory committee members, local organizing committee members, our steering team, our review management committee, our mentors, and many other people who are without which the event wasn't just possible. So today's welcome function firstly involves an address by our center director Professor Arnab Dacharya, who will share the history of epistemi conference and followed by that, Ayush and myself will share more specific detail about what was our region behind epistemi nine. So without any delay now I invite our center director Professor Arnab Dacharya to welcome you all for the conference. Thank you. Thanks, Deepak. So, welcome to epistemi nine. And since this is an online conference, I should say not just good morning. I don't know where you are all watching from so good morning good evening good afternoon wherever in the world you are. Thank you so much for joining us for epistemi nine. So on behalf of HPCSE the homie Baba Center for Science Education. I'm delighted to welcome you all to this now what Deepak said is a flagship conference on STEM education that is hosted by us periodically the conference that is currently happening in India in this particular field. And this year's epistemi conference is of course, kind of different, because it's being hosted virtually. And that means that I am actually a little sad that we can't welcome you to our tiny but what we think is a very beautiful and green campus. What you're seeing behind me is not a virtual background it's actually the greenery that surrounds us and you know while it can rain like crazy in Mumbai in there is a certain charm of the Mumbai monsoon that we would love to have your experience if you're with us over here. But anyway, welcome all the online. This is the ninth in the series of epistemi conferences. This series started off way back in 2004 with the first conference that was actually not held at HPCSE it was the other outlier in the series this one's online. That one was actually held in Goa. That's where it started. Of course, after that, the conferences moved to the HPCSE campus, and we've had them pretty much at two year intervals, mostly around Jan February in the winter where it was a very nice pleasant time at that time. And every edition of epistemi has brought together leading scholars from across the world across India. You know, leading scholars in STEM education in the field who have given us overviews on what directions are you know currently being pursued. What are what is the progress happening in science, technology, mathematics, design, etc. education areas for the Indian community. This has been proven to be a really valuable meeting point. It allows us to nurture a very small research community in STEM education in India, and it's provided a forum. It's provided this ground for academics, teachers, people in curriculum development, people in policy, it's brought together people and allowed them to listen to the cutting edge of what is happening, but also allowed them to forge linkages that have lasted well beyond the conference, both within the country, as well as beyond the country. So I was looking through the past epistemi, you know the list of conferences. And it's fascinating to see, you know, speakers who are very young researchers in epistemi one. I don't know whether they presented a poster or something. Today they're giving a plenary talk at epistemi nine. And I think this is one of the, it shows that this conference has really, you know, made its mark in the Indian context. So epistemi every conference has had a sort of special theme within this overall area of science and STEM education. For example, epistemi six, it looked at emerging computational media in science education. So, you know, and this epistemi is no different. We continue this tradition, looking at a very important theme, which is of equity, equity and access equity and opportunities in STEM education. So this epistemi is going to stand out for looking at one of the really difficult problems that all of us need to worry about. Of course, as the conference picked up the first three were sort of, you know, epistemi 123 by four we had this very beautiful logo. I hope you've looked at it. Look at all what's hidden in it. We had this unique logo. And, you know, over the next few days, I'm sure you'll be listening to lots of wonderful talks and have a really good time here. And I'd like to particularly give a shout out to Ayush and Deepa and the team of organizers reviewers and all of them who, in spite of various constraints, you know, disruptions due to the pandemic. You know, we've, we've had debates of when should we do this conference how should we do it. But at the end of it they've really been able to put together an eclectic mix of wonderful talks and posters, exploring different dimensions of STEM education. So we're going to actually in a treat over the next few days, exciting deliberations. I hope you're going to have some fantastic learning experiences, and you will be with us. We've tried our best to choose time slots that sort of should make it reasonably okay for people no matter where they are to at least attend some parts of this without having to stay awake all night. Right. So apologies if you had to wake up early morning for the this session or stay back very late. But I think the rest of the conference you'll find it's not too difficult. Of course, before I end I must thank the data Institute of Fundamental Research TIFR parent institution for their support and the support has been vital it's enabled not just this epistemi but all the past series of conferences to happen. Without that we would not be in this situation today. So we are we're always thankful for the support that we get from them. And again, while we can't offer you the hospitality of the HPCSE campus. I do hope you have a very pleasant experience in this epistemi. So on that note, welcome once again, and over to you I should be able to take us ahead. Thank you. Thank you very much for the speech as center director. So now I welcome Professor Ayush Kukta, co-convener of epistemi to welcome you all and share our region about this particular epistemi which is epistemi nine, the fully online conference in the epistemi series. So Ayush over to you. Thank you, Deepa and welcome everybody. Deepa and I started thinking about the conference. There was a time that we were like thinking about you know what what special focus should we really take for the conference. And one of the places where we landed was thinking about like what are really challenging problems in our field that have been talked about, but we are still to make a lot of progress around those issues. Some of the themes that stuck out to us were one on equity, and the other on research to practice and I just wanted to share a little bit about our vision for what these terms mean, because they also mean different things to different people. Equity what we understand it as our understanding is efforts to address historic and ongoing inequalities and injustices in our society. Often, these are structured along social category lines that we are quite familiar with, such as gender, race, caste, economic status, national status, citizenship, disability, and so on and so forth, right. And one of the symptoms of this equity has been the idea of representation, right like who is at the table. And oftentimes what has happened is, well there are two kinds of things. There are two kinds of things one is that the large part of research in STEM education still does not attend to equity we keep talking about students ideas about XYZ topic without or students excellence in XYZ topic, their ability to do science without actually attending to what is the social location from which these students are coming from our students from other social location, having access to these spaces are teachers from other social locations having access to these places. So, there is the question of who is at the table, but one of the problems that has happened also is that equity has gotten reduced to this idea of who's at the table. And the danger there is that we miss out on the kinds of disciplinary practices in science technology engineering and mathematics that actively keep out people institutional policies, again, that are structured so that people are kept out of these STEM spaces, or if they find access to those STEM spaces they find it very hard to stay in those stem spaces they are kicked out of them. Right. And the cultural sort of like disciplinary that sort of like happens in terms of when people from marginalized locations are trying to assert themselves, they are disciplined into conformity. And these are all aspects of equity and so equity ultimately has to look at power, and has to look at the people in power, and challenge them so that we can have a better, a more equitable space so that was one kind of an idea the other idea is research to practice, which is translating what we have learned from research into practice. Oftentimes, this has been restricted to the idea of teacher education and teacher PD, teacher professional development. And I think it's time for us to expand that beyond that right. Here's one idea where research and practice research to practice and equity should not be seen as two different themes at least in our minds they are joined together, but research on equity should inform how the practice of teaching and learning is happening. At the same time the idea of research to practice should inform how we engage with equity, not just in the fields of our research but also in our institutions in our professional communities, right like even if we look at the current epistemic, we should be concerned that we don't have enough representation of folks from marginalized locations, not only from India but across the world. And so think about these two ideas research and practice and equity together. And in some sense try to you know like our hope is that the conversations would help people expand beyond sort of like a really narrow research focus into actually how we are engaging with this in our day to day lived existence. So that's a little bit of a vision we'll see how how it all goes. Deepa, do you want to take over. Yeah. Thank you, I use and thanks for wonderfully putting our broad vision behind epistemic nine. As I was pointed out we have tried to include equity and access at many individual strands so it doesn't look very different but we have to think about it every time when we think about disciplinary practices and also about different other strands in science education research and hopefully we'll be able to do that beautifully in next couple of days that was our central message for epistemic nine. As a co-convener I would also like to add a few things that we wanted, or we planned to do at this epistemic platform, but couldn't include in this five days program because it is already full pack but I just at least would like to acknowledge a few things that we have planned and we hope to do so in as a spin off event in next couple of months. So firstly we'll be doing a spin off event exclusively for teachers and teacher educators in India in couple of months down the line, and this event will include further some of this year's epistemic stands in the form of workshops and panels which we were really hoping to do in person at HBCSE but of course when we moved to virtual platform we decided to make a space for these events sometimes later in but under as a spin off event of epistemic. Secondly there were a few in person workshop that we couldn't conduct due to some constraints and we plan to host these at HBCSE in the near future so like keep an eye on epistemic website and you will see some more interesting spin off events that will be posted time to time on our epistemic nine website. Thirdly we have made a web proceeding of epistemic nine available on the conference website for now so if you scroll down epistemic nine home page you will also see a PDF version of our web proceeding which is there for now but we have also we are also looking forward for an ISBN proceeding for referencing purpose which will be eventually shared with all of the participants and also with all other dignitaries who helped us to organize this science education research conference successfully. So keep an eye again for the ISBN proceeding but most of the things that you will require for epistemic nine all the talks proceedings papers are available in this existing PDF copy also a lot of information about the conference scheduling speakers and their contact information a lot of it is also available on our website so you can like you can keep looking and both of these documents like both our conference proceeding as well as our website is quite an information source throughout for these five days. And lastly epistemic conference has been a great networking hub for many birding science education researchers in India and worldwide. And though we have tried our level best to have this spirit ongoing even in the online conference we are also aware that many of you will be missing out some in person interactions with our larger HBCSC community during this online event so in epistemic nine we started with a few new ventures. Firstly there will be a small post conference fund which will enable a few conference participants in India for extending the interactions that they started at epistemic and they will be and we are we are trying to put a call about it shortly on our epistemic conference website so please keep visiting our website if you're interested in such extended interactions with HBCSC members after the conference. There will be more details that will be added on our website about it but I think this is the first time since the conference moved into virtual space we thought let us at least keep this space and this networking opportunity on going through the conference fund so that was the last announcement in the call and I think I'll just make a few one or two brief announcements regarding epistemic schedule as well. Please note that the conference is being designed or planned in two time slots one is in the pre lunch or morning afternoon slot according to the Indian local Indian time and then the second slot is a different afternoon or evening times on every day. I would like to request all the audience to check the conference schedule available on website as some days we start early and some days we start late to accommodate the speakers who have joined us particularly from different parts of the world. So the conference case if you keep an eye on conference schedule every day there are slight changes when we start the afternoon session so please have a look at it so you don't miss out any session and plan the next five days accordingly. So I think yes with all those announcement I welcome you all on behalf of epistemic team once again and we hope you will have a wonderful time at this online conference and we'll be starting our first event of epistemic nine right at 1030s so we can take a break of 10 minutes and our first thing in the talk is our first event in epistemic nine is a plenary talk by Professor Sarah Calbert so stay tuned and we request session chair to start the first session at sharp 1030. So if you want to hang out you're more than welcome but otherwise we can take a small 10 minutes national break and then we can rejoin at 1030 Indian standard time so thank you everyone once again and stay tuned for the next five days for epistemic nine.


The largest sectors are still the leisure industry, the bank sector and the telco sector. Now, the fastest growing sectors are a bit different, the utilities sector, it's still the telcos but it's a segment, it's the mobile operators segment and finally, strangely enough, the textile industry sector, those who are fast growing. Loss of trust, that is a phenomenon across Europe, I would say there are probably three answers. The first one is restoring credibility, all communications are scrutinized especially through social media so companies can no longer overpromise, it's essential to think about truth, relevance to prove your words, it's important to have a consistency between internal and external communication, the second is obviously engage dialogue with your stakeholders because top down communications are bound to fail, companies must be present where the conversation unfolds which means using new media, new formats, new contents, new codes and the third answer for most of them, not all of them is responsibility, collective utility, purpose, once you have strong purpose, your communication is much stronger in a world where companies have become more and more abstract because of globalization.


Here's your fit tip today. I got one for you. If you are looking to lose weight. Don't follow the Will Smith approach That's gonna rub some people the wrong way it is. You know why he's so likable and I love I want to put a disclaimer.  Well, I don't know him right But his persona and I actually watched this whole series. I don't know if you guys watch the YouTube I watch the most yeah, okay. Yeah First one that's what anytime we have homework gets what he does I should know should just sent him over the clinic notes Five kids man, you know, you know, it was actually I actually got emotional a couple times and it was so it was so good like he is so Talented and authentic and just I don't know.  Yeah, and what I don't know is this so disclaimer. I Don't know if there is this because what I want to be careful of is like, you know What if I was hired to do something like this, right? They said hey, Adam Will Smith wants you to be his Yeah, you get on the clock. He has a very specific goal of losing this way Well, yeah, so what I don't what I don't know is if he actually does have a really intelligent trainer Who's giving him better advice off off camera or maybe it was even on camera, but they're like, that's not juicy for TV Yeah, you know, we need to drum and because it does have that feel of they they're trying to dramatize the pound every week That he's got to lose so I in the first episode spoiler alert He so I don't watch the second or third yet But the first one at the end of the first week he gains a pound Yeah, and he's really crapped out about it and I thought that was a great opportunity To talk about what often happens in the first week, especially if you're lifting weights So that's if you're a man So that's what I'm alluding to right now what I don't know is you know, did his trainer off air But dude don't even trip. You probably built a little bit of muscle. You're probably water like it's not why not body fat test This is scale, right? So you don't see any of that in the video all you see is him like beat up now I don't think he got that advice from his trainer because you if you watch the next episode His response was fasting. Mm-hmm. So then he goes right into he goes into eating like boiled eggs and vegetables Well, he did that without his trainer's knowledge, right? Right. He didn't get that advice from and I don't I don't think his trainer would advise it but that also too like I feel like if if uh, if I was Coaching him like sal said, uh, I would have used that opportunity to then say hey, bro Don't trip like this is totally normal in the first week. Sometimes you're we're gonna see a little bit of Especially when you saw how hard he was weight training. I mean he wasn't training at all Then all of a sudden he's weight training like that. Okay, you're talking. Okay, will smith who in the past several times has had a lot More muscle on his body. He's got muscle memory. He played. Uh, I am legend He was muscular, right when he was Muhammad Ali very muscular So he's got muscle memory Stopped working out gained a bunch of body fat for his uh, his role in uh king or whatever The where he was serena williams played that right father So if you're gonna look if you're a man with that kind of muscle memory He's obviously got some athletic ability because he's got a natural build You're I would have told him ahead of time in the first week or two The scales probably not gonna change or might go up a little bit But your body fat's going down while your muscles going up and we're gonna test body Knowing his past and his body type I actually the goal even if our goal was because their main objective was lose 20 pounds in 20 weeks Which is very doable Induble even the healthy way But I actually would have said the first couple weeks.  Yep. Let's build right now. I wouldn't even focus on the scale at all. Yeah Yeah, let's build the first like four or five weeks Let's build the metabolism. Let's build some muscle and then we could really crank it up to and the So their approach is bad. I mean they they start them off right away on like Five to seven days of cardio in addition to his in in addition to his weight training The intensity is is there training to failure. You see multiple times. He's you know, last rep he could squeeze out So I guess where I don't from add a shape to that that's a really fast jump to train that way right away It didn't need to no, not only do you not need to but it's actually counterproductive right and that's the point I want to make is that you know Because even though you as you watch the whole journey go through he ends up I mean he looks pretty good towards the end Um, and he had good results uh overall if you're if you're all we're watching is a scale But I bet you if you watched the body fat percentage week over week You could have made a way better improvement in that short amount of time Well, people don't know this but let's say your 200 pounds and 15 percent body fat and you gain 10 pounds of muscle and you don't lose any body fat at all in terms of on the scale So you've lost no body fat.  Yeah, so that's how percentages work for example If you know if a guy like my size let's say i'm i'm walking around it Let's say 9% body fat if you were to peel all the body fat off my body and put it on a 100 pound person They would automatically be twice have twice the body fat that I have because it's a percentage of body weight So the scale is um is not a great by itself. It's a terrible metric. It's not and it messes with you all the time And I only ever used it with clients if it if it also came with circumference measurements and body fat percentage measurements So I could get lean body mass and fat mass. Otherwise Like you know, it's actually expected if I were training will smith I would expect his weight to at the at the absolute least stay the same But probably go up because of all the muscle that he's gained and then they don't talk about in the beginning I don't know how they talk about this to the end if they do In that first week I would have said well, you're stronger. How's your stamina? How do you feel right instead of you so crapped out? Because there was lots of lessons in this thing. I mean they uh, they were trying they were being competitive with mild times Which was I think a terrible idea. They decided one day. They're gonna do a step challenge He gets so obsessive with the step challenge that he ends up like pulling a hammy and he couldn't even finish it the next day Yeah, uh, yeah, I have a setback. He's writing his memoir in the middle of all this So you had like incredible like stress and deadlines and stuff like that Yeah, and then like still cramming in like these 30 minute intense workouts in between because you had now You have to talk about the the brilliance though of what because like after I watched all of it And I kind of took a step back and went like Okay, let's take a forget the trainer and me that's like wants to pick apart all the things that I think I would have done different I mean, I I don't really even think that was the desired outcome here. I think that This was a a brilliant creative way to launch a book I exactly because the way they do it lots of drama attached to that's right every and every episode He's he's breaking down a chapter in the book So just like how jordan peterson launches his his like his 12 chapters and he gives you a little synopsis of what snippets Yeah, so he does that and then intertwines it into the storytelling of losing weight That was the goal. I thought that was for sure. It was you got to know that will smart enough to know that One of the most popular things on youtube are transformation videos He and he's one of the most famous people out there. You got to show the drama. You got to show the struggle You got to show the speed at which you make this happen. How hard it is That's what people will watch and he already got like an insane amount of attention when he posted that I don't know if it's on instagram or the dad bod thing. Yeah, the dad bod thing just went like crazy And so it's like, oh wow the response for that. I'm sure you know catapulted that idea Oh, well, I actually think he already had it. He already had it going. I think that was setting the table I think that he did the king richard thing. You got to know that he had the contract already for the book Well before all of this so the book was already planned to do it King richard thing comes out. He knows he puts on the most weight.  I know what I'm gonna do. I'm in the worst shape of my life I'm gonna get in the best shape of my I mean, I had a similar moment for myself when I decided to get back into fitness When I started to get back into fitness Yeah, it's very similar to I just so happened to be in the worst shape of my life and I went Oh, this is perfect. I'm gonna turn on social media for the first time ever Like I'm gonna show a transformation. I'm gonna like document the whole process so people can see it and that I had the same Say, but yeah, this is the challenge with uh fitness media if you have any Integrity is how do I get the attention so that I can deliver the right information? But you know, but also maintain my integrity That's very challenging to do because you're competing with People who are selling it in ways that are effective, which is the struggle and the you know The biggest loser approach and the crying and the hammering and I can't move and I'm so sore And then you you're like, okay, I know that that's not the right approach But the right approach is boring. I mean, let's be honest, right? If you did the right approach Well, that's why I would I know dude That's why it was not the drama enough when you said that oh, we could totally shoot a documentary like this and do it Better. It's like no, I don't agree. Well, so Thanks for bringing that up Here's what I think not not that we're gonna do this. We're not gonna do this But if we did I think it's there's enough awareness now around these transformation type videos and fitness entertainment That the approach would be I'm gonna get in the best shape of my life But I'm gonna do it the right way and then through the process you're pointing out Normally, this is what they show but this is how you're supposed to do it And then this is what I do and this is what you're not supposed to do To show how you really do it and then to show the results at the end where people go Oh, wow, it actually you would almost need I would think like two different Uh, like a case studies going on at the same time, right? Yeah, the comparison of how Hollywood kind of portrays it versus like It almost would have to be on a time lapse, right? You'd have to like super speed You know the longer approach in order to condense it down to something You know what's funny is that it's the the challenge and the the difficulty of it is part of the sex appeal when people watch it But people mistaken because everybody knows it's very challenging to transform your health and your fitness It's it is it's a challenging process But people mistaken. What part is challenging? They think the challenging part is can I withstand brutal destructive workouts and extremely restrictive diet for 20 weeks That's actually not the challenging part. The challenging part is can I make consistency? Yeah lifelong forever changes And that's what makes it really hard to be honest with you and I'll argue this all day long the 20 You know weak hammer my body restrict myself is actually easier So it is far easier in fact people do that all the time people lose weight all the time that way So you would just have to find a way to to present the real way. I just don't I don't think that exists I really don't I don't think it's I don't think it is sexy. I think it like there's parts in there where You know they they dramatize, you know him quitting and him like not wanting to show up the next To have like flaking on his thing because he's just like burnt out all this And they spin it in a way that it's like but the truth is and then yet they cut over to the therapist every once in a while Which the therapist is probably the most logical person of everybody that's in the in the documentary like she's like You know encouraging him to do what's best for him versus, you know, like what he's got to prove people or whatever But that's just it's not that's not sexy entertaining to be the truth is that the trainer who's meeting him seven days a week If my client who's been burning the candle will both ends if they're like man, I am burnt Yeah, I would what I tell him is like don't come or I'd say hey, why don't you come on this walk? Let's walk and let's let's process what you're going. Yeah, let's just talk. Let's just talk. Let's get you Yeah, which nobody wants to see that what they want to what they want to see is that he's got adversity And then he overcomes it and he pushes through in spite of it Right and because that's motivating and that will give you those those juices flowing when you when you watch How much does this conversation remind you of the first conversations that we had when we started the podcast We used to talk all the time about How are we going to impact if it was a big lofty goal? And we're maybe a bit narcissistic But we thought we would be able to do this and we said How are we going to be able to impact the fitness industry at large? And outsell In other words, you know reach more people than the other guys who are selling everything the wrong way But it's sexy. It's flashy. We have lots of conversations about this. Like we got to beat them at their own game They're saying lose 30 pounds in 30 days by take a pill. We're saying it'll take you two years to lose 30 Pounds, dude. It's like how do we do that? It brings it all back, right? Because it's entertaining like I was sucked in like and you you get into the drama of it And this is just the narrative that just keeps repeating itself because people See that and they're like, yeah, I can do that, you know, because it's almost like this this one hard push And then then we're there, you know, and that's it. And so that's a that's a message that just keeps You know perpetuating our industry. That's why I don't I mean one I don't know if it'll ever leave to I don't know if we could ever create something that does That is as appealing but done the right way because the right way isn't appealing. It's just not it's not sexy It's boring. It's slow It's got a lot when I would watch the biggest loser I would imagine like what it would really look like with a good trainer like oh my god I can't do this anymore. No, no, we need to stop. You're going too hard. Let's relax a little bit Oh, you lost too much weight this week.  The viewer would be like click This is boring Yeah, terrible You ever talked to like a police officer like a like an actual cop or an actual doctor About tv shows about like oh enforcement in hospitals. It's the same thing. Like we'd never pull a gun out that situation Oh, dude, it's like whether like that happens one percent of the time My buddy's like I have a buddy who's a cop and he's like dude He goes if if that was what it was like every single day like we would No way we would last he goes that happened like twice in my life That's a good point in an analogy there too because there are times when like you're down You're not motivated and you should persevere and and step up and go but it's like that's the 1% right? There's there's that a few times where you're having that self-talk or doubt or your discourage and you should overcome step up Let's do it But they play into that so much that they think that like every time you you run into that It's hard or you don't feel like doing it that you should like you got this overcome it, you know You know what two things about that stood out for me was that had nothing to do with fitness One was the way the therapist talked about How will smith used entertainment and humor How was this ultimate Protection mechanism right you missed what it got really good with that towards the the later shows Yeah, so I really like that because it is true With people that one way to protect themselves from being ridiculed or bullied Well, did you hear the story where it all started for him? No, so where it started for him and he's like tells the story It's very emotional there's like probably like three different Parts where I got really emotional on it and he tells a story of him and his siblings Standing in the doorway and watching his dad clock his mom to where blood was coming out of her mouth And he said that moment changed all the trajectory of all three of the kids lives and he said his brother was fight His sister was flight and he was uh entertained And it was all to you know, his brother would push back and fight his sister would flight run run from the situation His was distract just deflect. Yeah, right So just just by entertaining and being that and that that's when that was born So that was his character from very early on and that's and so he still is that guy today And he tells that whole story was you could tell and you could tell too when difficult things come up He gets funny. Yeah, right. It's like, oh, it's getting deep. Let's get funny And uh distract, you know, the situation or take him off boy He gets into his I really wanted you guys to get to the kids part because he seems like a great day I don't know him, right? He might be just a great actor But he seems like a great Jalen. Mm-hmm try to be try to get emancipated. Oh, wow. Yeah So there was a there was a struggle there. Oh, yeah, he said he had a struggle with all of them Yeah, his Jalen. Okay. So his oldest is uh, you know, will the third would they call him tray his his oldest? He admits that he was the most naive with him obviously because he was the first, right? So he was completely like didn't know what he was doing and learning And then Jalen is the second one where he's he's he calls himself, you know, will 2.0 Or he started a piece together But I mean that kid wanted to be emancipated his youngest one willow Is the one that he admits that will come up and it was she was she committed to a tour with him in Europe Where she would get out on stage with him. She wanted to perform us for that and after the first night She came to him and said Um, I'm done. I'm done daddy and he goes. Oh, no honey We still have a hole whatever to go and stuff like that and she goes don't no I don't want to do it anymore. I'm done and he's like, oh honey We we've committed to the to the next month of of doing this And he said the next morning she woke up and she shaved her head completely And he said that woke him up at that moment and he realized like that, you know He wasn't hearing her and what she was trying to say to him and then he took care of it But he said that like it completely changed his life at that at that moment But you're talking about the third kid and she's already I think like nine years old or so at that point that signal to hear That pulls at you man those those dad struggles. Oh, that's why I wanted you guys to listen to it because it was a I mean I got all emotional listening to him talk about his mistakes. You know how old she was when Yeah, like nine nine Yeah, and all the kids are all the and so and Jalen was His big moment of what after wanting to be emancipated from him was you remember when they did that movie together That flopped Like the The war the world won or the whatever the end of the world So he did that with his son And it flopped it was like his worst movie he ever did And that was the first one he did with his son and he's like He totally felt like he let his son down because he told his son everything to do in that And then his son took on the all the criticism that came And so that totally created a wedge between the two of them I don't know. I don't know why any parent would put that make put their kid On a stage in that way. Yeah, but what you mean? What if they want to bro if they look if you're if you're there everything So I I mean what are you gonna do when your kids grow up and they want to be on the podcast No, no, that's fine when they're older but at that age I don't know I remember being yeah You don't know because if you have because if you're young and talented and you've got talent already and you're begging I don't know if I would say no like especially if they're talented and they're wanting to follow in your path I don't know. It's tough. It's tough because here's the two scenarios one And this I think is the worst scenario They crush and are loved by everybody and they're nine and they're killing it And then at some point which happens all these child stars They lose that admiration that love which they've created an identity around what you're not going to be like you were when you're nine Forever now people forget about you And oh, I can't imagine what that would do to me as a teenager let alone as a man in my 40s Yeah, but I think that's naive of you to think that you know, you're gonna stop a preteen on their their dream Of following in your footsteps You know I'm saying like you what's the backlash from that? I depends on the situation I would definitely destroy easy sitting out here for us to say that but it's not ideal, right? Not a beauty the statistics with like child actors and what you know, it happens as a terrible Right. I totally agree. They're terrible. But yeah, it would be a tough conversation when you know, they're gonna want to rebel if you're gonna just That's right. No, and then it may backfire even more on you. Of course. So every situation is different So I think as a dad you're over there.  You're not as popular What that would be interesting I guarantee that one of us three or even including Doug one of us four is going to have to Handle this one time.  I don't know. I mean, I think the odds of all of us with all of our kids that one of them is it Somebody's having that conversation in the next five years. Maybe I should make my kids my kids feel real insecure I think you'd suck, you know, you're not ready construction No, that's a tough one. Oh, it's gonna be time. I mean, I know to be tough Hey, if you enjoyed that clip You can find the full episode here or you can find other clips over here and be sure to subscribe


And there is a new kind of being also populating this planet which will not operate from that logical rational base and will thus be able to create change in a way that the human being cannot and also cannot imagine. Having said that there's also something else that's happening on the planet and that is that the human being itself is expanding its consciousness collectively from the purely rational and logical because the human being is familiar with the emotional, the human being is familiar with the rational and the logical. But what the human being is not as familiar with is that entire transformative consciousness and so collectively that change is happening which means that human beings are increasingly capable of large scale change in a short time.