Right, so hi everybody. I'm Jacob Klein. I'm the current chair of the SOAS food study center and welcome to this special session of the SOAS food forum. So I'm sitting in the restaurant, the A-Wang restaurant in London near Victoria Station together with Andrew Wong, the chef and proprietor of the restaurant and Dr. Mukta Das, social anthropologist and food studies scholar. We have a rather unusual arrangement today for today's food forum. What we've done is that we've collected questions for Andrew and Mukta from our master's students on the MA anthropology food program at SOAS and also from students on Chinese anthropology courses in the Department of Anthropology at SOAS as well. And so these questions students were invited to ask questions on the theme of cooking Chinese. So before we get to the specific student questions, I thought maybe I'd ask Mukta and Andrew to introduce themselves a little bit and tell us about how you came to work together. Do you want to go first, Andrew? You can go. You can go. Because I always embellish the truth. So it's been a while actually. I started on the MA anthropology and food back in 2012, which was a game changer for me, a life-changing moment and I'm so glad I did. It set me on a really positive path. And at that point I wasn't entirely sure what I was going to do with it, but I quickly came to the decision I was going to actually start to do doctoral studies basically, to start a PhD with the same Fusili Centre. And so around about 2014 I changed my Twitter profile to acknowledge the fact that I'd gone onto the PhD program and I think I'd named myself an anthropologist of food and started tweeting some stuff from my literature review, the history, the basic history of Chinese food, etc. And I think that caught the attention of Andrew here, both my handle, anthropologist of food, as well as the bits and pieces I was tweeting out. And I think he kind of direct messaged me and we started a conversation. And I think from that moment, 2014 onwards, we've been conversing, I think, pretty regularly on these kinds of topics. I think that's my recollection anyway. I think that's pretty much true. I'm not sure if I instigated it or Mooc to instigated it. But I do remember that with everything that we've done over the past few years, I think it is centered around the fact that we understand each other and we get along. And I think that dynamic actually is really what keeps this relationship working in a very kind of positive, kind of fluid way in the sense that Mooc understands that I'm not an academic. I've been to university briefly, but I'm a chef by trade. And I don't think like an academic and I'm not punctual like an academic. And so she understands that at the same time, I also understand that Mooc does not a chef. And so it's very much about understanding each other's particular field and understanding how the other person perceives certain literature, certain terms of phrase and certain interpretations of events through time. Interesting. So there was a lot of interest from our students in terms of about both of you and your experiences growing up in and around London and how this has shaped your attitudes and understandings and approaches to food and food studies. And one question that came up from a couple of students was actually, what was your experience of growing up eating food in British schools? And how did that change over time, perhaps? Well, I can take this one for only because I'm a chef. I tell you what, this entire question is particularly significant, I think, in these kind of times in times where people are constantly conversing about cultural appropriation and the kind of diachronic nature of food through time. And actually, I think that, you know, when people look at the food that we cook in a restaurant, I always say that, you know, I am not an expert in Chinese food. I am an expert in a Wong's Chinese food. And I think that's what sets us apart. So what is a Wong's Chinese food? A Wong's Chinese food is my interpretation of Chinese food through its 14 international borders, through its 3,000 years, and also through my own lens. And what is my lens? My lens is one which an individual who had a father from Sichuan, mother from Hong Kong, and my grandmother cooked Sichuanese food at home. And at the same time, we were navigating Britishness in the 80s. So, you know, what does that mean? I mean school dinners means that a lot of it was kind of thinly sliced overcooked meat, I remember, and lots of gravy. And I remember for dessert-wise, and this is proven one of the things that we worked on, actually, this whole idea of British affinity to custard. You know, that is very culturally specific. You know, when you look at, when you talk to any Brit about custard, they automatically think about school dinners. But that isn't something that transfers through internationally. So when we made custard bund, Lao Sa Bao, you know, traditionally it's meant to be quite salty inside, quite grainy, and that's where it's meant to be. But actually, I made the decision to play on this kind of British affinity with custard and kind of modified a dish. And that dish, I never thought in a million years, but actually it ended up becoming one of the most popular dishes on the menu. And I think it's because it taps into that British-ness, and at the same time, it's very much still a dim sum. And so people still see it as kind of this dish that travels across this cultural bridge of Hong Kong and Britain in a kind of like fluid way. That's great. I hope hopefully we'll be able to get back to some of those questions around cultural appropriation and those kinds of mixes that you're talking about later on in the discussion. Thank you. Mukta. Well, it's a brilliant question because I guess what the questioner was trying to get at, and I think it's a brilliant question, is that, you know, there's something about school canteen food that goes to the heart of someone's identity, I think. It's kind of a formative experience, isn't it? And I think I agree with that. It was a formative experience for me to have British food in that context when I grew up like Andrew did in a household where we were cooking other kinds of food, South Asian food, vegetarian food largely. And actually the first moments of me eating pork was in a British school canteen and also custard and things like this. And so it kind of agitates feelings of belonging when we talk about some of our canteen experiences. It does kind of make you feel more British in those moments. And I think that's quite interesting. And Andrew's recollection of custard, we've talked about this a lot. But also just the idea that actually there's a kind of 80s, kind of 80s, a repertory of foods that I think are a kind of touchstone for both of us as we try and figure out what the British part of A Wang's menu is. I think that has kind of kind of keeps us grounded, keeps us keeps us, you know, kind of kind of keeping it funny, keeping it kind of light. There is a kind of, I think a kind of ironic play on words on play on the kind of foods that we experience growing up in sort of, you know, after or dining in which cases this is kind of school, school dinners is one of those things. But yeah, yeah, I think this Britishness of it, I think we kind of play on a little bit, don't we? And we kind of figure out where it fits in the work that we do. I think it's also important just to say that canteen food aside, we're talking about a time in the 80s where actually British food was kind of a laughing stock of Europe anyway, you know, the French were laughing at Britain at this time, you know, the Italians Mediterranean, we're just kind of what is British food? It's it's disgusting. It's a joke.  That is something that's very much kind of 90s on which we're talking about the era of kind of Marco Pierre White, Gordon Ramsay, and everything that kind of came off that. We're talking about 80s, which is before that, you know, where everything was in a French used to call it was beef, and everything overcooked with incredible amounts of gravy all over it. That's really interesting. I mean, I've noticed part of that transformation since moving to Britain in the late 1990s as well.  I find it really interesting the way that both of you are also situating a long and the work you do here within that context. And again, that's something I'm, you know, I think we can get back to later on in the discussion as well. It's really fascinating. Building on this question of kind of personal experiences of growing up in this country, or particular also more specific experiences, maybe about for Andrew growing up in the in the restaurant milieu. There were students who are very interested in a kind of in the question of how how chefs learned to become chefs. And I was wondering if in particular, if you could give us see a little bit about the relationship between what it means to learn on the job in a restaurant and also growing up in the in a restaurant environment, versus what it means to learn to cook professionally in institutional setting. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Sure. Wow, it's a detailed question. And I think that the major distinction that people need to make is that cooking as an act is something you can, you know, it's very easy to be taught, actually through repetition, muscle memory. But then there's learning your own palate. And I think that is what takes time. And that's things that is a lot more difficult to to teach. I grew up in a restaurant environment, I grew up in an environment where my grandmother was cooking citronese food. But at the restaurant, you know, a lot of our chefs in the 80s, they were from Guangdong. And so they cooked very classical kind of Southern Chinese food. And so that is really what kind of determined my palate, in a sense. And so so when I became a chef, and I need to say that I never really wanted to be a chef, I kind of fell into it. And then over the years, I kind of learned to realize how much I love it unintentionally. But the palate side of things is something which takes years and years to develop, to trust your own palate, and very simply to understand what you like and what you don't like. I think people in general are very quick to follow suit. So if 50 people say that, you know, blue mashed potato is the best in the world, then actually if you're the 51st person, you probably go, you know what, I agree that blue mashed potato is the most delicious in the world. And the idea from a chef, I think one of the hardest things to do is to make a very clear understanding of what you perceive to be delicious and what you perceive not to be delicious. And that has to be the starting point. That is something which takes a long time to learn.  So I was constantly surrounded in an environment where there were people doing certain techniques all the time. So you know, I kind of pick them up unintentionally as well. But that really is the easy side of things. The hardest side is understanding your own perception of flavor. So you also have an academic background both in chemistry and anthropology. I was wondering if you could say a little bit about that and how that's shaped your your cooking practices and understanding of food. People often ask this, and I got to say, like, you know, education for me personally was not really necessarily about subject matter. It was about fulfilling goals more than anything. You know, I went to university to fulfill the goal of getting a degree to make sure that my parents wouldn't disown me at 21. And, and, you know, when I look back now, and the fact that, you know, Muckson and I have done so much work together over years, I do remember actually, I don't remember 99% of my anthropology degree at LSE, but I do remember the one module, which is the anthropology of food.  So it meant something a little bit more to me.  It really is as much cultural as it is kind of biological. And it is there to be reimagined from generation to generation. And that's really what I took out of that particular course. And that's something that I question again all the time on a daily basis, because what are we doing in this restaurant? You know, we are not taking old recipes from old books, and we'll be maddened with recipes or from whoever's and trying to recreate them. What we're trying to do is find an expression of celebrating moments in time. And that doesn't, that isn't necessarily going to be factually 100%. But that doesn't matter. It's the fact that eating is so much more than just about being pedantic about moments in time. It's more about an expression. And because I understood that from an anthropological point of view, I think it's made my life so much easier when we work together. I think that what you're saying there segues very nicely into a series of questions that we had, we've had from our students, particularly concerned with the creation and development of menus and the way in which the two of you have collaborated on that. And one question that we had was particularly concerned with Mukda's research into the histories and cultures of Chinese cuisines, and in what ways this has shaped and helped Andrew's menu development and cooking, and whether you have any also concrete examples of that. And maybe Mukda, do you want to begin answering that question? Sure, thank you. That's a great question. And it's not a really easy one to answer. Andrew touched upon it a little bit. And Jacob's question to Andrew just now kind of, I think, grounds this a little bit, because when I work with Andrew, we have an inherent kind of very implicit understanding that what we're doing is finding this sort of intersection. And this is I'm drawing on your work, Jacob, when you taught me 20 years ago, this intersection between sort of continuity and change and structure and agency, right? This intersection of where the human lives. So I like to think of myself when I work with Andrew as bringing the anthropology bit into history, right? And so when we look at old texts and we look at sort of Chinese history in broad terms, you know, you, you, I have to know that stuff really, really clearly, right? I have to look at the spences of the world and work out all the sort of structural, the big stories. And then I look at the kind of social institutions, the kind of Rouse, the Ellen, Evelyn Rouskes, you know, the kind of social institutions are really kind of interesting kind of the human dynamics of these histories too. So I've got the big structure, I've got the human dynamics of those social institutions. And then I work with food histories, food studies, the Casey Changs, the HT Huangs. And then I kind of bring in a little bit more anthropological kind of, you know, the kind of the stuff that you know, kind of sits within that intersection, you know, how do humans shape the time that they're in and how does that time shape them, that kind of co-constitutive element, right? So that's the kind of work I do in preparation for any kind of conversation with Andrew, because I want to give him that level of agency when he kind of starts to construct his work. And because of his background, because he understands anthropology in that inherent sense, because he kind of also understands the chemical chemicals around food, he kind of gets that a lot of the work that we do is kind of constructing a kind of techno cultural part of this kind of history, right? We know that it's not all there. We know that the recipes kind of speak to some things, but actually, lots of things about those recipes are about human decisions around the technical aspects around the technologies that they had around those ingredients that they had and the kinds of ideas around taste and what tastes good. And so it's about giving Andrew as an idea of that structure, as well as an idea of the human agency around that. And it takes a lot of reading to get to that point to have informal conversations with him. But that's the kind of work I do in preparation for some of those, some of the questions that kind of arrive at my, in my WhatsApp at two AM in the morning. Great. Andrew, do you want to say or speak to that as well? Yeah, I think, I think. Booktube is absolutely right. She puts in a lot of work and sometimes she really kind of breaks it down into the bare minimum before she sends it to me, I think. And a lot of it's conversation to try to succinctly explain a lot of the reading that's going on before she brings these very succinct excerpts, because she also realizes I'm a chef and I don't have 20 hours a week to read through, reams and reams and reams and reams of text. But what she's also realized is that she looked to highlights, like the odd sentence here or there or the odd paragraph, which she thinks I'd be interested in. And nine out of 10 times, they really are the bits that I automatically like scan to. And then so as I flick through the text that she's been sending me, I'll begin to build a picture. And it won't necessarily be a picture of just that reading, but it will be a picture made up of other bits of text that she sent me over the over the years.  Or there's a fact that she's talking about, I don't know, the idea of dairy products in certain dishes. And so as I read certain texts that she's given me, at the same time, I'm trying to bring in all other texts, which I remember and I was particularly fond of during my times that she's sending me text. And I try and build like a proposal together of a dish. And a lot of the time I'll send back this, send this back to Mukta. And she will then go, OK, well, first of all, let's try and put it into a framework that makes sense, like any type of sense. Because my decisions are purely based on flavor a lot of the time, right? So it'll be all this text, I put it into a form, which, OK, for the most recent example would be sour cherry, preserved plum, some form of animal fat, what shall I say? Some dairy. Some dairy. And I'm trying to construct that into something. And so Mukta will then take that information and she'll go, OK, well, how about you look at it from this perspective? Have a look at this set of recipes, which would be related to preserved plum, for example, or it might be like, I don't know, blossom trees or whatever it might be, maybe connected or not so interconnected. And then I will take that information and I'll try and build on top of it.  It will end up being a fish dish. But it's that process of just building and building and building until you reach a common ground where we think that it tells a story, number one. And number two, it's a plate of delicious food. Do you have any of, maybe you give us a couple of concrete examples that illustrate that collaborative process? Sure. I mean, we've had loads along the way. And some of them are tiny garnishes, so they're parts of dishes. I remember a dish that we worked on a while back, which I took off the menu recently, with this idea of trying to find a chocolate dish relevant to China. And so I looked at, did quite a lot of work to try and find some form of, some form of link between China and chocolate. And then we kind of looked into coffee and then we looked into bananas. And so she looked into kind of banana plantations in Yunnan. And then with that, we started to move into kind of black truffles. And so the end of it, I remember, was a cherry on the cake for me. Was her sending me some text about people running away and hiding in banana plantations during the Mongol... No, during the Han. And the end, I don't know how this came about, but it ended up being like this chocolate molten cake with kind of really stretchy Middle Eastern pistachio ice cream with dusted cocoa, dusted fermented black bean, and then these massive shards of kind of different textures that lay on top of it, made from rice paper. Yeah, I thought it was delicious, anyway. It was a delicious plate of food. And as I said, is it an exact replica of anything that we've read before? No, absolutely not. Is it an exact historical study of a specific moment in time? No, absolutely not either. But what it is, it's a delicious plate of food that is very much rooted in our work about China. Yeah, so basically, I think what I help Andrew do is have a some sort of bandwidth between this point and this point. What are the possibilities? And as you know, you know, especially parts of sub-tropical China, you have an endless variety of raw materials. And so what can you do with that raw material? What kind of time period can shape those decisions? And what's happening around socially in those time periods that might produce a kind of creative force within Andrew that kind of emerges that kind of dish. And so that's what I tend to do is kind of give him a bandwidth, a structure, a way of thinking of a choice of times and dynamics that then he builds on. And we have this bit of feedback. And yeah, I mean, I know that the chocolate thing is a bit of a bug there for me.  You know, he is he's running a commercial business. It needs to meet the requirements of bats and entertain diners and taste good. And so I just give it a shape and and then, you know, layer it accordingly. So, yeah, I remember another example, which was what you were telling me, we were talking about wine in general, I remember. And we started to talk about the kind of the development of grape based wine, I suppose, the rice grape wine coming through Persia on one of the silk road routes. And that was great. So I thought, OK, well, that's good, because I don't have to use purely kind of Fadil Jal or rice wine for this dish. I can use something a little bit more kind of floral and also allows me to use grapes, which in Chinese cooking, you don't see it that much in grapes, really, which is good because it gives me a level of acidity and sweetness to add to dishes together with this idea of using wine. And then I remember you telling me that with these kind of version of these Persian excursions into China, there would have been these mass banquets of celebrations where they would have been grape. Yeah, Oasis Town. Yeah, grape grape based wine basically great piss ups, basically. And again, again, I had this idea of a banquet, these kind of big celebratory bits of meat that you normally would custom to being part of a celebration. And it ended up being like a rib that we have on a dish, which is a very, very expensive piece of pork with, which we then use kind of like various different garnishes from dehydrated pork skin. We use pickled grapes on top of it. And we use a little bit of particularly red wine in the sauce as opposed to rice based wine, purely for that reason. Now, can you actually taste it? I think you'd have to have a really, really, really kind of nuanced palate to taste the difference after that with that particular because there's so much sugar in it. There's so much star anise and there's so much other kind of dried spice in that dish. But for me anyway, the fact that I know it and the fact that I know that we had multiple conversations about this thing, to me, it makes the dish so much more interesting. And to me, it gives me a real concern, a set of bandwidth to which I understand that dish and it's rooted very much in my understanding and my learnings of China. I think that's brilliant. It really speaks so interestingly to the kinds of relationship between continuity and change. Between the structure of cuisine and kind of individual and collaborative invention as well. So absolutely wonderful stuff. Our students were also very interested, maybe so in menus as well. So if you move a little bit from flavor combinations and individual dishes to the concept of a menu more broadly, what kinds of things do you think about when you develop your overall menus? What kind of messages or meanings do you want to convey through the construction of those menus? Do you want to go first? It's up to you. Well, we, this is quite prescient because actually Andrew's work at the restaurant now is kind of the early stages of introducing a banqueting menu in the evenings. And this is kind of a menu where people can come and Andrew will send them dishes, I think 18 or 20 dishes all together and they won't necessarily, they'll know what's coming, but they won't necessarily, you know, they can obviously choose vegetarian etc. But they are basically fed as you would expect in an elite or an imperial household, for example. So, so, you know, we had some early conversations about that back in November or December last year. He introduced this for China New Year this year, so February. And so back in November, he was asking me about what he should think about in terms of constructing this menu, like what kind of like big ideas. And one of the things that we came up with was this idea of fives, a very important number in, in, in, in sort of Chinese history, you know, Chinese sort of philosophy as well, and Chinese food, as well as the, and he asked me for some examples of banqueting menus. And so when we looked together at a particular banqueting menus from the Qing dynasty, the final dynasty in China, we, we came across, you know, this idea of fives that were sort of banquets that were split into five movements or five sections. And then, you know, several dishes in between that kind of were a, they kind of played on this issue of fives in terms of bringing in different kinds of textures and flavors and, and moving these things in, in seasons. And so that kind of gave Andrew an idea of how to structure this menu. And so Andrew chose to structure the menu and sort of providing five sections or five movements within this, within his banqueting menu itself, and to start to mix together different textures and flavors accordingly. So giving contrast to the, to the dishes in each of these five movements as well. So those are the kind of big ideas we started with at the beginning. And then Andrew makes these decisions within that structure to then place particular dishes within it, you know, and the timing of them and how they sort of sit together. I'll, I'll pass on to Andrew to talk about the other decision. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Moog does actually write in the, in the sense that this conversation started, it started way back before like November, actually, because it's been, it's been, I've been thinking about for a long time. And I always probe her with little questions like in the middle, and I go, oh, how about this? Or how about that? Because actually an ala carte menu is actually, to me, not the correct way to eat a lot of Chinese food. And I think that I think it's again, I haven't, I'm sure Moog does actually answer this question before, but I might have forgotten the answer of this, this idea of this construct of an ala carte menu. I'm not even entirely sure if it was even rooted in, in, in China at all, or whether it was maybe a Western construct of going into a restaurant and, and looking through things and picking them one by one. And actually from a eating perspective, I think Chinese food in general doesn't lend itself to having dishes singularly. I think, and, and Western chefs are the most guilty of this is that when they think of dishes of food, they always talk about balance or flavor. So they talk about balance of flavor and balance of texture. But they always reference it in terms of individual plates of food. And I just think as a cuisine, Chinese food is so different that you cannot imprint that those parameters onto it. I always feel that the very best way to eat our food in particular is about having multiple dishes, having a spicy dish, a sweet dish, a dish that has more texture, a dish that has less texture, a little broth. And it comes with this idea of five, you know, the five, you can relate it back to the five elements. But then you can also relate it back to the five flavors, you know, the sweet, sour, bitter, pungent, salty. And so again, as Mukta explains more about background and around these banquets, I latch on to things like these five flavors, the five elements. I start reading things about confucius that I never knew from before. And as we build this picture, at the same time, we slowly evolve this idea of what would it feel like to be part of one of these occasions? And it's never going to be a banquet which is which is a replica of going to one of these Qing banquets, you know, one of these, you know, banquets of everyone over the age of 70, was it? Or the Feast of the Elders? Feast of the Elders. And I don't think it's about I think my job as a chef is about giving people the the experience and the emotional attachment of what would it have felt like to go somewhere, feel really special, get dressed up and get delivered and experience where, you know, when it arrives, you go, wow, there's like, you know, five or six different dishes all at the same time. You know, for you to pick at, you know, the conversation will ultimately revolve around how one dish works with another dish, how one contrasts another. And it's about creating that experience more so than going, well, the archives show that there was a double braised turtle dish together with a bear dish and and, you know, seven cold, you know, fish carpaccio is on the menu. I think that I think if we did that, I think that we wouldn't be able to express our work as well as the way that we do it, which gives us a little bit more creative freedom. And also, I mean, building on that, it's it's been interesting for us to kind of drill down onto a specific menu in the Qing dynasty and to ask questions about it. And to almost, if you like, using Andrew's kind of work in the kitchen and his menu to kind of speak back to the academy in terms of, OK, if this is a printed menu, and it represents work of a particular kitchen and the work of a particular diner, you know, what does it actually mean? How does it work in concrete terms? And so we we've had lots of discussions. We've had to tweak things as we go along. And Andrew especially has had to tweak things as he goes along to make these things work in a modern day kitchen. But also to kind of question again, well, OK, if we are talking about kind of strict rules around principles around balance and taste and five flavors and the five zappos and the five, etc. Then actually, a lot of this is invented, you know, kind of invented or creatively interpreted on paper. The recipes themselves are literature almost rather than a scientific writing down of what actually happened. And so we, you know, we kind of we kind of allow ourselves a little bit more freedom than the printed menus would usually give us because we I think we kind of interpret them as literature. And so we can then draw creative inspiration from it without having to marry ourselves to the actual printed words, if you see what I mean. I think what is even more interesting is the fact that actually it works better like that because number one, a lot of the texts that we work off are translations. And number two, the people doing these translations, they're not chefs a lot of the time. So actually, a lot of times I'll get them side by side. And there was certain terms, which are very chefy terms that people will use. But the translation doesn't work because it's as a as a saying, it's pretty meaningless. It might just be blanched. But as a chefy term, it's not just blanched. It's blanched in a particular way, or it's double steam in a particular way. And I think, you know, all the students are academics. So I think that's an it's an important thing to say that, you know, because of that, there will be nuances that are sometimes lost. And I think that's where I can help Mook to sometimes in the sense that we might read a passage. And it might be like, well, this, this, this, and this in 10 steps. And I'll turn around. And I'll just go, you know what, actually, the chances of it being constructed like this are probably quite low, because you wouldn't be able to make the dish like this. Actually, number five actually probably needs to come before number two, in order for this dish to to actually be functional and be be be a reality. Either because, you know, one part of the recipe was talks about marination. It makes no sense to do that later on. Or, you know, they're talking about some steaming process, which takes place before a double boiling process. I'm like, I don't I wouldn't see this happening in real life. You know, if they were doing it for a banquet, they might be trying to reheat the food. So I get why there is a double cooking process. But I would probably not put in that. And I think that is quite an interesting conversation for my and it's the only time really, where I feel like I can contribute back to Mook to his work. I suppose that be more kind of one directional sometimes. So a long as a restaurant has now been awarded to Michelin stars. Is that correct? Yes. So it is, you know, irrefutably a fine dining restaurant, right? Nobody would would would argue with that. But what does actually fine dining mean in a Chinese culinary context? Presumably in London, given the diversity of cuisines in London, there's going to be all sorts of different ideas about what fine dining of cuisine actually means. How do you negotiate between those different understandings and meanings given the diversity also of your customers in clientele, which you've actually already spoken about a little bit in terms of your move to the to the bank, the bank winning style menu. How do you negotiate between those things in your work? Andrew, do you want to be with that one? Sure. I think I think number one, we try not to ever use the term fine dining, because I think it's more confusing than anything. I think in particular 2022, I think that term in itself creates more problems. And it's very much a Western construct. And again, I've spoken, we've looked about this, I think China, Chinese cuisine is so unique in the sense that kind of very high end food isn't massively different to the food of the people. And so, you know, how how do you differentiate cuisine then, if actually it's all available historically to everyone? You know, if I compared to French cuisine, if you're talking about kind of royal cuisine, it's very, very particular, as opposed to kind of every day French cuisine. So therefore, if you talk about fine dining, okay, well, it's a celebration of, of, you know, Cameroor scoffier, you know, then that makes sense. But actually, even if you look at, you know, in 2020, if you look at roasting processes, for example, which, you know, those that we know for a fact that those took place two and a half thousand years ago from etchings and stuff that we've looked at, would they have eaten those in a palace? Yes.  So I think, you know, because it's so difficult to navigate that I think this term fine dining really doesn't mean very much. The the fortunate thing for us in 2020 is that, you know, we happen to be the only two Michelin star Chinese restaurant outside of China, which means that actually we're in a very fortunate position. And instead of we get to make the rules, you know, and I would like to think that actually what we're trying to do is we're trying to make food delicious, but also thought provoking. And we do it in a way which I hope is respectful to my culture. And what is that? That's about kind of a level of humbleness, a level of care, a level of hospitality, which I think, you know, whether or not it's true or not is debatable. What I perceive to be Chinese-ness in me, which has made me draw particular importance to certain aspects of hospitality. And, you know, if that ends up being a definition of fine dining somewhere in the future, then great. But if not, if it just stays as being kind of our interpretation of the way we look after our guests, then that's also great too. Great. Mukta, do you want to add to that? Just to say that, yeah, I agree with what we what I think Andrew and I love to do is democratise this idea of this idea of where you would go for really excellent Chinese food, because we know that Britain, migration, all of these things, these dynamics mean that it's difficult to gauge price and experience. You know, what the skills you get in the kitchen don't map onto the price you pay at the counter or the price that you pay, you know, at the table. It's it's it's almost disjointed, you know, the kind of premium quality stuff that you can get compared to what you're paying for, especially around Chinese, mostly Chinese food in British cities. So we're aware of that. And what we try and do with we have a podcast every couple of weeks, we kind of put a podcast out. And what we try and do is we kind of look at the skills that Chinese chefs have to bring to their cuisine and to unpack that and to share that knowledge to other chefs, to other people who are interested in Chinese food or food in general, so that we can sort of explore the level of skill that is required, the level of technique, the kind of understanding of chemistry that is inherent in the cooking process in some of these classic Chinese dishes that Andrew is, you know, well versed in and others as well. And to sort of, I think, break open this idea that fine dining has to be in this kind of space. Actually, you can experience these skills by simply walking around and finding the kind of good Chinese food that you can find in lots of different places. And so we that's what we're trying to do, I think, is to kind of break open this idea of fine dining is being very located in these kind of white tablecloth situations and really situate it within the body, the skills of the chef themselves and the kind of techniques they bring to their daily grind. So that's that's the kind of what we're hoping to do. And that's what we try and do with the podcast and other things. I mean, it's an anthropological research in itself in trying to understand why Chinese cuisine as a cuisine has managed to find itself in the situation where it doesn't fit into any economical mathematics for running a restaurant.  And if you look at Chinese restaurants, they pretty much are always underselling against that mathematics. And that is completely a cultural thing. The reasons for I don't know. But you know, what we do try to do in a lot of our work is to try to celebrate the technique, as Mupta said, and try to get people to understand why why would you go to a three star restaurant in in Italy and pay 90 euros for a risotto, a white risotto.  You know, people will complain about paying 11 pounds for some one ton soup noodle where those one ton noodles have been bamboo bamboo made. So someone literally had to bounce on them physically for an hour. You know, it's a very specific recipe, which has evolved over generations and generations and generations. You've got a broth which is made out of multiple types of dried seafood with chicken stock, whole chickens, again, a massive expense. And then you've got these wontons, which are made out of, you know, shellfish, dried prawn powder, again, expensive ingredients.  But, you know, what what could you be charging for that? If people were mapping onto it, their normal kind of acceptability of what they will pay for delicious food. You're talking about, you know, a setting price which would be multiple times more expensive than what it is being charged for. I wonder to what extent what you're involved in then is in some ways a kind of a didactic project in some ways, a project about teaching the world about what this cuisine is, what its possibilities are, what it's, you know, what what what what kinds of what its histories but also futures could be. It struck me very much that when you were talking earlier about your your recent introduction of a banqueting menu that in some ways that appears to be a kind of accommodation to the fact that you're actually, you know, you're you're selling your cuisines to a wide, a very diverse clientele, many of whom are not Chinese. And in some ways I would think of as as Chinese gastronomy to be a gastronomer in a Chinese context is precisely to know how to combine different kinds of dishes on the table, right? Know what things go well together. But in some ways what you seem to be doing is also to some extent maybe teaching the diner about that. This is what combinations are good. These are what kinds of things that work. These are the possibilities that we can fit together. Is that is that correct at all or is that kind of? I'm always a little bit skeptical about this idea of me teaching, getting but actually unintentionally probably yes.  Now, as I said, that's a very big responsibility. So, you know, in a in a in a world where, you know, it's very easy to to to message things wrong or be, you know, unintentionally inaccurate, I think, and it's very important that what we do is is respectful and what we do is celebratory. So so, you know, the banqueting example is very much about that.   But we do hope that the very fact that we inspired someone to Google it, I think that in itself is the difference that we're making. Moog, did you want to add to that? Yeah, I think yeah, I think Andrew's right in that I think we we never set out to teach anything. But I understand I understand the term and I think what it is it is about allowing people the space to educate themselves about their pallets, what they, you know, to experience a balance of flavours and textures in a different way than they might be used to and to find out a little bit more if they want to. You know, I think it, you know, we kind of allow them a learning space, if I can say that for that to happen. And to acknowledge the fact that we're also learning too, like we we never really actually, you know, no dishes complete. There's always something more to add, something more to take away. And so we're on a bit of a process ourselves. And so feedback from guests, if they like it, if they don't like it, what they would prefer is also really important in that process as well. So I think we're all giving ourselves some space to learn a little. So as a final question for this discussion, which I think ties into what we've just been talking about, a lot of our students were interested very much in the kind of politics of cultural appropriation. To what extent it's acceptable for non-Chinese chefs to be to be making Chinese cuisine and selling that in Chinese restaurants and so on. And they were very interested in what you what your views of these kinds of of these kinds of debates are. I'm the best person to start this answer because I need Muck to support the answer because the simple fact is I don't mean to trivialise the question in any way, but I honestly I'm not entirely sure what what cultural appropriation is. I know what it is in terms of a definition. But the way that it is questioned in mass media. I find it very difficult to understand what people are referring to each time they are referring to from case to case. And every time I need to turn to Muck to and I go, am I just being really like culturally inept or or just culturally blind? Am I not seeing something? And I think sometimes Muck to is the best person to ask because she's not Chinese, but she's an expert in in in the field, which helps our work. And so she she perceives it from multiple different angles, which which I can't often see. Well, to be to be fair to Andrew, actually, he's so enmeshed in anthropology and history that he obviously questions the term itself as we've been taught to do by Jacob and others, you know, to actually like, what does that mean? What how do we bound cut? Why is it important to bound the culture? When is it important to bound the culture? And so, you know, we're seeing these dynamics play out here in London and other places and other cities and other contexts. People attempting to bound something. But actually, the work that Andrew and I do, especially when we take into account the richness of Chinese history and how much Chinese food cultures have been made by foreign influences and foreign ingredients and foreign techniques and and have, you know, kind of exported these out as well. You know, it's a really interesting task to bound Chinese culture into one thing, right? The Chinese food culture into one thing. And so Andrew's confusion is our confusion, is your confusion, my confusion, you know, it's not necessarily, you know, what are the results of it? But why do it? And so that's the kind of conversation we have. Is why is it important for this journalist to ask you? Why is it important for this person to ask you what you feel about this? You know, rather than answer the question itself, it's the question, the issue, you know, and why it's become important in this day and age. And I think that's and, you know, we and I ask him, you know, are you OK with sitting in a bit of confusion? Is it OK to be confused and to not have the answer? And inevitably, he'll say, yeah, that's fine. And so it's it is about kind of looking at these dynamics as complex and not necessarily something that. You know, needs an immediate response and to kind of question the issue of binding something or bounding something or bounding it, you know, having a boundary on something. Yeah, it's it's. Yeah, I think together with that point, I don't, although I do sit in a massive pool of confusion every time this issue arises and I do I do always. Make this relationship between the question that we're asking and this idea of ownership and you talk about bound. And whenever we talk about ownership, the things that I reference from our work is number one, when did chilies arrive in Sichuan? Because they're definitely not Chinese, no matter how much you try to find a really tenuous link. Potatoes, you know, I've read a few pieces where they have tried to convince that me that there are one or two strands of the potato family are indigenous to China. But I'm not entirely sure and bananas. And when when we talk about appropriation, I could always go back to this idea of ownership and if ownership is appropriation, then I think it's a very, very difficult road to go down. But at the same time, Muck to always tells me that, you know, China, as I said, is the biggest sponge of other people's cultures. So what it is today and the perception of what China is today really is just a massive like collection of of multicultural influences over thousands of years. Yet it's been painted as this this entity that hasn't moved through time. And so when I when I accept that and I look at China as a sponge, then I can sit a little bit better within this pool of confusion. And I think that a lot of people's problems within this confusion is the fact that they can't see China as a sponge. They see it as this kind of this immeasurable entity, which is just China. And I think that's where the real problem comes about. Nice answer. I think that's a wonderfully thought-provoking and anthropological way of which to end what's been a fascinating conversation. So thank you so much, Muck Dan. Thank you so much, Andrew, for this fascinating opportunity. And I'd also like to thank all of our students for their wonderful questions. It's really it's really been been a privilege to be able to talk with you today. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Great. And now Muck says she forgot to press record. No, you don't have a joke about that.


Shifting it away from them man, the wide, the wide position, keep moving. Yeah, lovely hands, good.  Last one. Yes, guys, here we go. Nice. Nice, Rambo, step out. That all day long. There we go. Go, good. Yeah, lovely hands, good. That's our last round for you. Come on, come on, good, face up again. Nice hands, good. One more, one more. Yeah, lovely hands, good. Nice, good, that's it. Nice, good, change keepers. There we go. There we go. Good, good. Yeah, good. Nice. Yeah, good power, good. Keep it going, Rambo, I'll give you one more. Yeah, lovely set. Nice set, Rambo, off that one. There you go, there you go. Nice. Yeah, nice, good push. Good punch, good. Last couple of inches down. Yeah, exactly, I think so. Without your little bit, I'd only get a touch of drugs as you did.  There you go, there you go. That's how it is.


Hello everybody! It's time to decide who will be the winner of this RAM motorcycle. And so now I'm going to choose from among the commenters on my announcement video who said that they wanted it and I am going to use the name randomizer 5000. I have placed the names on small pieces of paper inside the name randomizer 5000. I will now randomize the names. I will now select a name from the randomizer 5000. I will now read the name. The winner of the RAM motorcycle is Alien Doom Syndrome. Alien Doom Syndrome. You are the winner of this from my own collection, 1982 GI Joe RAM motorcycle. So congratulations and thank you to everyone. 2014 was a fantastic year. I really appreciate everyone subscribing and watching the videos. 2015 is going to be even better. I have already decided that 2015 will be the year that I acquire a certain aircraft carrier. It will be mine. Oh yes, it will be mine. Thanks again everybody. Got a lot of great new videos coming up so stick around and it's going to be a great year. Thanks again and congratulations Alien Doom Syndrome.


All you need are good intentions. All you need is to just be a good person. All you need is to just love people. The Bible presents a very different reality. We, like sheep, have gone astray. Every one of us has turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53.6 Loving people isn't enough because we have all fallen short of loving people. We have hated our neighbor. We have fallen short of loving people as we ought to, and because of that, we are all guilty before God. I knew this, and he sent Jesus to bear the weight of all the sin and his wrath that we deserve. Your goodness is not good enough, but Jesus is. Trust in him. Follow for more Christ-centered content and help support my ministry on Patreon.


So I wonder if anybody tried to debug containers using sidecars. Anybody? Okay, a few people. Have you tried to create your own tool to debug other containers using sidecars? Okay, good. Have you tried to do it with Docker and Kubernetes? How about containerD? Anybody tried to do that? That's a little tricky. We're gonna talk about building a debugging tool for all those three runtimes. They're similar, but they're different. And we're gonna talk about Docker Slim and how it was created there. And if you don't know what Docker Slim is, you'll learn more. So first I'd like to intro Ivan. This talk wouldn't be possible without him. Unfortunately, he couldn't make it. But if you're interested in containers, you should see his blog posts, newsletter, and his amazing diagrams. His labs are awesome. Yeah, I am Sayum and I'm a field CTO at Sevo. CNCF ambassador, Cube Simplifier founder. You can find me on Twitter, very active, I might reply you here. And also joined by Kyle, the Docker Slim guy. And yeah, CTO at Slim AI and you can KC QoN at Twitter. You can follow us and let's get started. Okay, so a little bit about how it all started. There's a connection here because it all started here at KubeCon. KubeCon and you two years ago in Valencia. We had a hackathon and then won the hackathon and he created the very first version of the debugging capability we're gonna be talking about. So let's first discuss the problem, why we are building, what we are building and what's the current landscape of debugging the containers using the existing tooling and then how this new tool actually helps to simplify the developer experience and do it seamlessly across all the three Docker Kubernetes container D. So minimal container images don't support debugging because they are minimal and they don't have what you normally use for debugging. So the standard debugging tools won't be there. The go to command, since many of you raised hands so you probably might be aware of these.  That's how you get to the application which is not working. And it starts a target shell in the target shell process in the container. So that's the Docker exec-it. So these are some of the standard commands that you probably would be using when you are debugging a case across Docker container D and Kubernetes. We'll come to Kube CTL debug and others as well. But when you talk about the minimal images, distal images, that is just the minimal container image containing your application and nothing apart from it, no libraries, no dependencies, no shell, then how do you do that? Because if you cannot put a shell, spawn a shell process, how would you attach to the file system? How do you debug? So that's hard. This means exec commands won't work. So as you see the standard Docker exec, Nerd CTL or CTR exec, Kube CTL exec, these standard commands won't work. Some of the others still would work like in the center which does require some low level privileges to run and Kube CTL debug. So taking a step back and reviewing the different types of deepening experiences, we can just put the site in the center for now. So you can see Docker exec can run the target binaries and it does install some of the extra tools, only works if there is a shell. Kube CTL debug, the site card that Kyle just asked like how many of you have debug using a site card? It can see the target process, access the target root file system, but not as is. And NS Center can do anything, but you should have sufficient access and you should know what you are doing. So that's for the NS Center. So can we combine the best of both worlds and make sure it works in the debugging experience that you would want with your containers, Kubernetes pods and with container D for the minimal images. Also, if we can have a same user experience. So I think user experience here matters a lot because when you are writing or used to, get used to writing the commands via single CLI tool, how easy it is to use the same kind of framework or the same developer experience throughout all the environments. For example, right now the tool name is tool. You have debug, if you can just pass on different runtimes, if it's Docker, container D or kids, and then you just define the target where you actually want, which particular target container you want to debug. So that would be cool. So let's see if it's possible to have this. So with Docker exec, what you do is you get a new container. You get a new container. It shares all the namespaces, including the mount namespace. So you can see when you have the Docker exec hyphen it shell, you will get a sidecar and it attaches everything is over there. And these are some of the more details. Like if you are interested how the Docker exec works, some of the more details around it. So you can go to these OCI open container runtime spec and the issues and the pull request, how it works. You can almost simulate the Docker exec behavior using the Docker run command by attaching the processes. So you can use Docker run, then use some of the namespaces net IPC PID and create a app. In this particular case, you will have a separate container which will not have the same mount namespace. So the file system of this particular container when you do the LS, it will be different from the target container that you actually want to debug. So this is what it looks like. You can see both the app container that you actually want to debug and the SH container that you just created using that Docker run command. They share the PID net IPC because that's what we shared, but they have the different mount namespaces. So, and when you do kubectl exec, so kubectl exec or sorry kubectl debug, which is the fmrl containers that gets created. So it creates a sidecar container. So this is your distiller's app that you want to debug. It spawns a sidecar container and you have different amount namespaces and it shares all the other namespaces. So even there, when you get directly in a straightforward way when you do the LS, you will be getting the LS of the container that just got spawned up. So not sharing the mount namespace has an impact on debugging experience because now you have a different root file system. Is there a way to kind of can we do it in a way that we get to the app file system which we actually want to debug? Yes, we can with some of the workarounds. So if you, when you run this, you can actually use slash proc slash PID root, for example, proc one root, and it gets you to the app root file system. But still the question remains about the developer's experience. You went to the file system, is it still possible to have the same level of developer experience for the, with the sidecar debugging? You can use the chroot command or equivalent command. The chroot command will make it look like we are in the target container, but we need to make the debugging image binaries accessible to the new chroot. So what the workaround is, so in order to see the debugger's entry point, so you can see you first created a sim link. So that's the sim link creation, then exported the binaries and then chroot into the proc one root. What this does is it actually, now it gives you the feel, okay, you are in, when you do the LS, you have the access to the binaries of the container that you actually want to debug. So we saw the problems. We see the developer experience lacks. There are workarounds that you can do and different workarounds are different for different runtimes. Can we now start implementing our debugger? The clicker, cool. So let's take a look at what we need to do. The high level flow is very similar for all runtimes. Yeah, you need a container, but yeah, you need to spit up a container then you need to connect that container to the target, you wait for it and then you can do the IO there. The steps are similar, but the details for each runtime matter because of the APIs and because of the design differences, for example, but Kubernetes, you have pods in ephemeral containers to deal with. There are a number of low level details you need to deal with when you go beyond the happy path. Just like with anything else. We won't go into great details there, but for example, Docker Slim creates privileged containers, the SideCore containers as privileged containers to deal with some of those gotchas. We talked a little bit about exposing the binaries in the target container view by sim-linking the debugging file system and then adjusting the path with the bin directories. But if you have shared libraries in those executables, then you also need to do something similar there as well. And it's a little trickier to do with shared libraries. So it's easier to have statically linked binaries in your debugging images, but we'll talk more about it later. So let's take a look at the different runtimes in the APIs. Obviously we'll start with the Docker API. So here we have a few methods and the relevant interface that you would use in the official Docker API client. Kind of the standard stuff to work with the container API to create a new container, et cetera. A couple of screenshots snippets of the API. Hopefully you can see it. I didn't get a chance to update that. And here, this is a slightly different version because it's using a wrapper package in Docker Slim to abstract the lower level API, but this is what happens in the tool itself. When it needs to handle the Docker runtime, it sets up the options for the new container execution, then it creates a new container execution object. And the most important thing starts on line 257, where we're setting up the modes, the IPC mode, network mode, and PID mode. We need to make sure that they point to the right container, that's the magic. So when you're building your debugger, this is the key thing that makes it happen for the Docker runtime. So let's see what it looks like for the container D API and its runtime. So it's a little more complicated, but conceptually very similar. There's the container construct, but there's also this task construct that you need to use when you're creating containers and when you're running containers. Much lower level and the key here is the container spec namespaces that you need to configure and it's configured in a different way there. A few snippets of the API itself, it just shows the container, the process, and the task interfaces that you need to deal with, creating the debugging image instance, container and then interacting with the target container and all of that. So this is a little messy. It has a lot of snippets because it's the most complicated than the lowest level API. So first, with container D, you need to find the container that you want to debug. There's a tricky way to do it where there's no nice way to have a name for the container, unlike Docker, you just say, hey, this is the container name. But once you find the container, you need to get the main task of that container. Once you get the main task, you need to get the process ID for that task and then you use that process ID to set up the namespaces. For example, there, line 252, you set up the process ID namespace and then you create a Linux namespace option spec option then you later use in the call to create a new container right there on line 328. You're passing a spec with new spec functional argument and you pass the spec ops there that you configured. And after setting up the IO plumbing, which is very similar for all runtimes, but slightly different. So it doesn't make sense to go into that. You create a new task, again, what container do you have this new construct to deal with? That's how you run things. You don't run the actual container. You execute actions on the task. So you create a new task, you start waiting for it to get the signal channel and then you start it and then you just manage the signals if you have a terminal and then, or you forward the signals to the target if you're not. With Kubernetes, a little easier, but you do need to deal with the ephemeral containers. And the magic there is configuring the target container name in the ephemeral container construct. Much easier than container D, just specify the name and that's it. The main APIs, the one in the pod interface, it's used to update the ephemeral containers. You can use the low-level put and patch calls as well if you want, that's doable, but Docker Slim uses the update ephemeral containers call and then the rest sub-resource call to do the actual attach. Now here it has a couple of API snippets, kind of shows that the update ephemeral containers call is implemented using the put call in case you cared. So here we have a whole bunch of snippets, fewer than a container D. We set up an ephemeral container and like I mentioned, online, 11.94, we configure the target container name parameter so we're talking to the right, so we're attached to the right target container. The rest of it is the usual container spec set up with the entry point and arguments and all of that. Then we grab the pod spec from the target spec that we got from the Kubernetes Client API and add our ephemeral containers back there and then we call the update ephemeral containers function method and that will add that ephemeral container after we wait for that to start and run, we can set up the IO using the remote command and we also need to attach the sub-resource as well. So this is probably easier than container D by 50% or even more, no namespaces to deal with. So a few things to mention about the debugger images. So the best images, like I mentioned, are the images with the statically compiled binaries because that means after you connect the path to the target container file system, you can easily use them. It gets trickier when your binaries have shared libraries, it means somehow the target container view needs to find those as well. So if you're using the same base image that matches the target image, that makes it easier. So the same system shared libraries will be there. The next best thing is to use something that's similar to what Nix does. So I don't know if anybody looked into it, but what Nix does, it uses SimLinks a lot and we looked at the SimLinks a little bit. It's doing something similar and then it's doing magic with environmental variables to for the path variable and the LD load path variables as well to make sure that the right libraries get loaded. So you would have to do the same thing there as well. The next best thing is to use a Nix-based image because then they'll take care of that for you. They'll set up the shared library loading and all of that. With the Docker Slim tool, there's a set of pre-selected debugging images. So there's your usual busy box, that's the go-to container when it comes to sidecar-based debugging and then there's a couple of chain guard images.  So feel free to experiment. So some of the challenges creating the debugging tools. One of the biggest challenges is the APIs and the libraries. They're not well documented. So if you try to build your own tool, you know that you kind of have to reverse engineer what they're doing. And unfortunately, chat GPT doesn't help because especially with Kubernetes, why is that? Because it has all data and the Kubernetes API changed significantly and then it generates a whole bunch of code, looks good, you try to run it as broken because the API is outdated. So the best thing to do is to go to the source, go to kubectl, Docker CLI, nerd CTL, they mean gotcha there is that it's complicated. There's just a lot of complexity and you kind of have to reverse engineer that. Ivan has awesome Go examples and his CDBug tool is a lightweight version of Docker Slim and it also has port forwarding as well. So you should check it out and it's a good example again if you're writing your own. A few more gotchas, again kind of a summary. When you go beyond the happy path, you have to deal with permissions and other gotchas around shared libraries in your debugging image. But again, like with anything else, you deal with that depending on the needs of your application. So here's the clicker, it doesn't sound like it. This one works. So, yeah, hand and mic are difficult when you do the demos. So we will try to now this one. Yeah, it will be interesting to do the demo like this, but yeah, hopefully it works. So the first one would be to have the slim like using the mint tool to debug the image engine X slim. So that's a engine X slim image, which doesn't have a shell and we are trying to now debug this. So there's tab completion. So you can see we have debug and then we can specify the runtime and then we can specify that it's Docker. If you don't specify the runtime, it automatically chooses Docker. So if you are using, if you are debugging Docker, then you can actually omit the runtime. And then we specify the target and then we specify the engine X slim image. And you can see we are in the shell and you can also see which engine X. So you can see we have the access to the engine X as well. So yeah, it's the same workflow. So now what we'll try to do is we'll try to replicate the same workflow which we talked in one of the slide where we had tool mentioned. The tool was meant. So we'll try to replicate the same behavior across Kubernetes and container D as well. So moving to container, moving to Kubernetes. The animals. It's the same one. You want to show this. Yeah. Just show the spec. The cursor is all the way to the right. Yeah. So a simple YAML file, which is there, simple engine X part with the chain guard image, which is there. That's already deployed. And yeah. So we exit from this and we do kubectl get pods. Still need to. Still need. Yep. Okay. So you can see the example pod that spec that I shown is up and running. So we'll use the same tool and debug. And this we specify the runtime. This time it's K AIDS. We actually have to specify namespaces and the pod, but it's since there is only one part in the default namespace, so it should automatically pick up and it does. And you can see it is starting to enter the container. And there we are. So the same, the same tooling that we have. Which engine X. So we have same access to the root of the target container that we want to debug. And we had the same developer experience for Kubernetes as well.  So it's like Docker exact work to tell exact. You see the target container file system. You don't see the, the Docker entry point shell because it's, it's a chain guard engine X image and they don't have it. But all of that engine X stuff is there. Can we, can you switch to the other thing? Okay. Before I do that, I'll just do, so do nerd CTL. Yes. So right there, there's a, there's an image running and we'll do the same thing. Run time. Okay. And we shouldn't get the same target completion. Yep. We see the engine X right there. So here we see the Docker entry point. We do which engine X. Which should be good. So we can exit and we can switch back and show the version without the same target container experience. If we want to do it, we have a few minutes, a couple of minutes. Yeah. So it defaults to the darker runtime. Yeah. And this parameter, we need it false. So now if you know, if you see, we, this is the root, the root of this particular debugger. And if I do which engine X, it doesn't work. So we can simulate that experience using the run as target shell false. Yeah. So that's what you get when you use the, the regular CLI with Ctl debug or Docker run and other similar tools. Well, that's it. We'll point to the last slide. Yeah. And there's a couple of screenshots there that show the same thing. And how you can disable the target shell flag and get the debugging image. And then the information about the images and also the next one. If you scroll, scroll to that. Yeah, that, that custom debug image chain guard created was awesome. Yeah. So that's pretty much it on debugging. Yeah.


We're gonna get that bubble is and we did it with spray paint and I'm gonna show you guys How we did it? So I miss ma'am I'll go on it. It looks like you're already doing it. Hi student. How are you?  It's this big Plastic paper whatever we're using spray paint right now because that's kind of what everybody has spray paint At the end we'll get some airbrush just to kind of see what it looks like to make it look like a real bubble How it has that oil? It looks like a little oil slick. Mm-hmm. How it's gonna look I've never done that.  Can you guys hear both of us?  Okay So bubbly bubbly Do you know how long it would take me to actually have to paint a bubble? This is what I want to try to do too. I want to try to do like a like a one that's Faded out. Okay One spray bubble. Look at that. It looks a little different on camera Right everybody's like what? You guys It's my new favorite thing And you can do it in all kinds of sizes, but if you work smaller you have to be very And it's easier to do when you have specialized Caps that cup is a little bit. So it's a wonky Wonky bubble. So basically what he's doing is on this one.  It was very it would have been very yin yin I was gonna say are you gonna do any of the like? I need to look at a dot because I I think that's Yeah, and just hold it up. Don't don't pinch it because then you're gonna End up looking like that So we'll just do one Over here So see I always just aim him for the wall and he's letting it the spray paint bounce off the wall and onto the buble Or bubble however you English It just looks so different on camera. Well, it's pulling the white up more So yeah, he's gonna do it again. He's gonna aim at the bottom of the cup and then That looks a little better. I'm just I'm already excited for when you add color to it Well, it's not just a dot on a real bubble It's like it's like more like this. It's like line dot dot line We're going color This is a little cool. Not just a little Not so much. I think you should put airbrush over that one Just like Do you mean to hold the cup for you you can hold it Airbrush it might be a little bit different. I don't know So at home if you have an airbrush, it's gonna be Much the same you're gonna aim for the outside edges and what's happening is The paint is bouncing off the edge And it's catching and just filling the edge. So you're getting hard lines where The paint right it's the Italian drip when I put my hand anyways Um so Shelly, I know you are Under exaggerating and I love it So you're aiming for the edge and letting the paint bounce off and the closer you are to the foot or the lip of the cup When you hit the edge that's going to give you your harsher lines And then that fade that haze that's in there. It's from just all the paint. That's you're okay in In the cup and just depositing on the surface So right now he's doing airbrush, but as you can see it doesn't look That much different from the ones he did with spray paint. So if you just have spray paint by all means go for it But in order to control your flow, I would recommend using a cap that's like this one This is a german thin Or the claus cap because my dad was german Um, look at that. It's so christmasy That's so crazy like this was yellow and it just turned green Translucent yellow over black will turn green a hundred percent of the time And then go green hey lori welcome And so if you need I have spray paint cap sets on my website That come complaint with the adapter that you need for everything. That's not like a graffiti Cap thank you claire for posting a link to the caps the paint that jeff's using is translucent I haven't carol less I did you order one last I checked you couldn't um Get the order to go through on the website or something I I haven't done. I haven't may obviously you watched it being painted but um You were having trouble ordering it on the website and so Let me know Oh, you just covered it. Oh you PayPaled it. Okay, then I will um I'll ship it off in the morning for you It takes them practice not to move It even looks like there's a shadow behind it Because I guess maybe because of your placement and so these ones being lighter. They're like in the background I got you carol. I trust you everyone's saying super cool and love it Oh claire already ordered some caps I love it. Thank you so much claire This is so cool. I agree And so the key is just three little On the edges And then if you wanted to go back with airbrush and Put color then You could I'll get you guys in there Which one It's hard to 50 with the paper cup But look I like how it's like there's a bubble inside of a bubble. That's what this one did right I shouldn't even mess with it Is this a practice piece or do you have plans for it came in a little late after you probably said this is actually just A proof of concept piece. Um jeff painted this board black Just to show you guys this technique Um It's not even cradled. It's just a I think it's one of our shelves from the dust free zone actually I'm honest That one looks good because it looks like it's pinching right there I love that they're all so different Funny that I I didn't do anything until I fell in love and I got super creative with resin and pigments Also watching you guys was super inspiring Now she left me and I don't make art anymore again weird I'm sorry um Sometimes um being In a relationship Can definitely help your creativity and your inspiration Jeff was in a serious artistic rut when we met And it has gotten better. So just know that it gets better There's so much paint going around like and it's also we're here for you Um spray paint. There's more paint coming out And less Not sharing christie Um, would it look different if the board were laid flat? So kathy if the board were laid flat um You would get more of this splattery look from um paint just dribbling out of the um the spray bottle Spray ball spray cap airbrush. Nope spray cake. What are the words spray paint? So do you think it's easier with the spray paint? Maybe hold on. I'm gonna try to go I'm gonna so listen like let's say this was the inside what I'm looking at I'm gonna try to point right here Like on the inside of this cup. I'm not gonna point up here. I'm gonna put like just so I can make Okay, so you're aiming for that instead of the rim Okay I think that's just gonna make it solid whitish. I'm gonna go just for the rim on this bottom part. Okay See look at that. You see what that does like What what do you think is making this outline that? Is it from you pinching the cup and it just I don't know. I'm not pinching it at all like I'm I'm literally like I'm I have So if you pinch the cup and it It moved it then when you put the cup down it would leave a rim. So it's definitely not from The rim shifting. I think it's just the bounce off has to be yeah It's bouncing off.  No That has to be the bounce Are you aiming for the edges again? Just the just the middle part kind of This cup is So wonky Look how fun it looks. It's super fun. It looks glowy Thank you, Genevieve. By the way, love the name Genevieve Go in would you like a little? I guess if you want I don't know. Does it look good like that? No, the dots aren't a thing be they're like Machbeta That looks more bubbly You like this one that Hit the thumbs up for the ATD fam. Thank you for the reminder We're doing Saturn now With a pearl necklace It's rave Saturn. We're going halo Atyara Crown Hey I want to try one But you don't have to hold this when you're done. I can see an old school bath A lady and lots of bubbles in the future. That would be a great. I don't want to do that Mommy mommy mommy. I'm gonna be the bestest one. I'm like super aiming for the edges Oh, you're actually Painting the cup. Yeah, I like that one You could just only go for the edges and it would be just that little like Faint look I hesitated so it's got sputter Oh, it looks good though Kind of the difference if you are aiming for the sides versus the keys On all on the one that I just did I was aiming for like you can see where I hit it It was like right here And then right there Yeah You But you don't want to go all the way around because you want to have that like definite That's where the paint hit so like boom boom boom Do I do another what's up hobby? I just made that I just wanted you to know and just made that That one looks like they're super sunny on the top of it So when I was in college and we had like our drawing classes and they're like make a sphere with a gradual Shadow with a light source If I'd have just done this it would have been a quick and easy trip But no time to get fancy I think this process would look super cool on a cornhole board Thank you, Clara. That makes me want No, I think it's like What was it called? It's not fruit loops. It's not fruit by the foot fruit roll-ups. It reminds me of fruit roll-ups Are you putting twinkles? What's up, Sherry? It's like super glowy on camera Such a steady hand. I know He's kind of brilliant with an airbrush. I am great. I hope you are as well Sherry What if you end up doing hats with bubbled on them?  That looks really hard. So That part that's airbrush here. This is the super easy deal Check check check it out I'm gonna put I'm gonna change it to say do a bubble with three Because he goes Bam Bubble super easy. All this is just extra business, but the bubbles in general Three little spritzies Maybe four See hitting the sides right here gives it this Like this solid, but then Because it's going kind of down and out. I think it's because this is kind of coming out You know it has this like rounded so it gives it that little bitty Little lip I don't know about those big I'll be all right big blurbers I guess it would need to be up here because that's where the Spray lightly with color then hit it with the three white spritz Okay We'll do that for you because we do the tests The bowie doesn't have to I'm not like So proud, but i'm super proud If you turn this up around would that help um, we actually like That little bump Shadow just do some color. Yeah, and then hold it there and then do white I'll thank you sherry. She says you are both so so talented It is more boobly colored if you're gonna overlap the bubbles. I think this is a very good idea You and your big blobs I guess I just want that highlight This is my favorite of all the big blobs Maybe I did I just hit that I mean we hit the board Erica, you know, you like the drips. It's true. I can't even hide it. It's no shame I do love the drips and I really I like this like slight blue glow Clara so it's a great idea to do just a hint of color first And then do The white over it because that makes it not so abrasive of the white. It's not so stark I think it's super fun Not very difficult Dare I say super easy? Are you guys going to give it a shot? Jeff is using one of the caps from our spray cap collection. This is a german thin or the clouse And it just gives you really good can control and it's A low pressure. Yeah, it's like a low pressure cap to where the paint's just not coming out Like as if you were to have a stock cap Mm-hmm, because then it something like this would be way worse and more consistent with well It would just be it would be so much paint. Yeah, it'd be hard to do this Soft design It looks like that champagne gold has stock cap on it And the clear has stock cap Why don't you just use the champagne gold one and just do It's still a girl cat Here you go See that see the difference Like I'm a lot of barely coming back from that On a big one, it's probably not as detrimental if you're working on smaller bubbles It's going to be a lot different Also, Jeff has real real good can control so Don't let him fool you this almost works better just because of that that cap's probably dirty now Um, it's all right What's up Evel? Can you guys hear me or no? Okay, can you guys hear me now? Okay, good. Sorry. It was from all the calls. Anyways Um, I hope you like this quick tutorial And you can see the difference in the caps and the paint. This is with the regular Cap and a regular paint. Oh, this is the valspar And then this is with the and it has the adapter on it too Um, Montana Anyways, I hope you guys decide to give this super easy super quick bubble Using spray paint in a cup a shot. Remember For a subtle bubble like this one You need to hit the edges And for a more stark colored bubble like this aim more towards The center instead of Around the rim you can see on this one just for a quick recap where I've hit The um The bucket So essentially the higher up you are in your cup or bucket Um, the softer your bubble will be and the closer to this Rim on the base You hit the, um More stark it's gonna be So higher on the bucket is softer lower in the bucket is more stark So I hope you guys have an awesome evening We are gonna go see a movie Haunted maya shone Hope you guys have a great evening be kind to one another because you never know what someone's going through I always remember So bowie doesn't have to Because he doesn't need to because he's precious, baby This has been great tutorial. Don't know that I'm brave enough to try it though. Oh my goodness You should totally try it.   No, okay Do it try it on cardboard. Y'all are amazing


Hey guys, welcome to OxyVlogs. If this is the first time here and you would like to know more about life in Dubai, don't forget to hit subscribe button and the notification icon so you will not miss anything. Last week, Dubai started the vaccination campaign against COVID-19. So, in this video, let me share more details with you. This vaccine is developed by the US pharmaceutical company Pfizer and the German company BioNTech. The first person who tried the vaccine was a woman from the UK who is 91 years old and she did it on December 9th. So, what is inside the vaccine? The active ingredient is the messenger RNA, which is synthetic. It's not extracted from the actual viruses. But not everyone can take this vaccine. There are certain groups of people who can't do it. For example, children below 18 years old, pregnant women, breastfeeding women, women who are trying to conceive, people with compromised immunity and people who are allergic to vaccine and medication. Now, it's important. If you were infected by COVID-19, you can take the vaccine only after three months from the date of infection. And once you take the vaccine, the immunity develops within four weeks of the first dose. But how long it lasts for? I couldn't find any specific numbers. I think you have a question. If you take this vaccine, do you still need to wear a mask? Yes, you still need to follow all the rules. And if you take this vaccine, you can have some side effects such as fever, fatigue and headache. If you decide to take the vaccine, how you can do that? There are several authorized centers across Dubai and you can book an appointment through the mobile app, which is called DHA, or call this number. Taking this vaccine is not mandatory, it's the second voluntary vaccine rollout in the country. The first one was the vaccine from China, which was introduced earlier this year in December. So, guys.