I want to be fabulous, a drama, you're bringing it.  Don't hit me. I'm the Wizard of Oz. I'm like the one behind the curtain that nobody knows exists, but I'm the one making everything happen. Jennifer Shaw, who as many many of you know is getting ready to surrender to federal prison for six and a half years. I'm not a bad person. No, I've helped so many people. I'm a good person. I wouldn't I would never do these things. If you're on social media, which chances are if you're watching this video, you're at least on YouTube, often you're presented with content from the rich and famous. The celebrities you're supposed to admire, follow and even look up to, we're constantly being presented with FOMO fame content. It's a Met Gala in Park City at the Shosky Shallow. I love throwing big, over-the-top, extravagant parties. Content that's supposed to make you desire to be rich and famous yourself. We live in a gated community. I've always been at least 50 grand a month. But you'd be surprised how many rich and famous people walked all over the less fortunate to get where they are now.  Of course, not every rich and famous person has done this. But you'd be surprised how many people on your feed or for you page had to exploit others to get to where they are. Jen Shaw is one of those cases. She's accused of an elaborate fraud scheme. A huge telemarketing fraud. Speaking with the victims was not wrenching. Someone who took advantage of others to get rich and then used her riches to become famous. It's the Jen Shaw Show. She was giving us the money. She was giving us the looks. But on the bright side, Jen Shaw is actually one of the rare people who was held accountable for her actions. From housewife to jailhouse, this is the story of Jen Shaw. She's a self-proclaimed diva. Jen Shaw, the drama you're bringing it.  Because of the audacity of it all. Jen Shaw operated a massive fraud for almost 10 years. Then went on a reality show to brag and show off her wealth, which she got through scamming and massive fraud. The story of Jen Shaw has me truly appalled. Jennifer Shaw, born in October in 1973, is mainly known as an American television personality. She was a cast member of the reality television series The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, which premiered in November of 2020. Jen Shaw is of Tongan and Hawaiian descent. Originally a Mormon, she converted to Islam. Shaw is married to Sharif Shaw, a football coach at the University of Utah. The two met while attending the University of Utah as students. They have two sons together, Sharif Jr. and Omar. Bravo's description of Jen Shaw on the show reads, as a Tongan and Hawaiian growing up in Salt Lake City, Jen Shaw felt like she often stuck out in her traditionally white Mormon world. When she learned about the historical mistreatment of black people in the Mormon religion, she converted from Mormonism to Islam. A mom of two with her husband Sharif, Jen is the queen of her house. With an extravagant personality and sharp tongue, she can go from 0 to 100 very quickly. But usually comes back with apologies and love.  What kind of example are you setting for your kids? Well, first of all, I'm not in my 50s. During her time in The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Jen Shaw quickly earned a reputation as the most over-the-top Salt Lake City housewife, managing to fight with all of her fellow cast members. Jen was mostly known on the show as a business owner of three businesses, but in March of 2021, she was arrested and charged with running a nationwide telemarketing scheme along with one of her assistants, Stuart Smith. Do you have a comment on the charges at all? Leaving the U.S. federal courthouse in Salt Lake City, Jen Shaw stared straightforward and had nothing to say. She was criminally charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering and wire fraud, initially pleading not guilty to both charges. And her legal case was chronicled in the documentary film Housewife and the Shaw Shocker, which premiered on Hulu in November of the same year. Something I was most curious about, since we know now that most of Jen Shaw's wealth that she displayed on The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City came through fraudulent activities, is where did Jen Shaw claim her money came from while she was on the show? During season one of The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Jen spoke very little about her own business endeavors, which we know now is because she couldn't because they were illegal.  Where is all this money coming from? It's funny because a lot of the ladies are like, oh my gosh, where does Jen get all her money? Here in Utah, the ladies are like, oh my gosh, how does the brown girl and the black husband have all this money? However, during her time on the show, she spoke a lot about her husband and his success as a football coach. I try to support you coaching everything, but I need you to be here more. But for a Real Housewife reality star to not talk about their business endeavors is definitely an unusual thing. In the past, Housewives would use the show as a way to promote their businesses and being a star of The Real Housewives would usually lend a ton of business opportunity and a platform to market your endeavors. But Jen Shaw never showed her fans her businesses or what she does outside of the show, which led a lot of fans to question, how does Jen Shaw make her money and what's her net worth? Over time, something was just not adding up. People are wondering, like, how'd you get so rich? What do you actually do? I mean, I run a lot of different companies and businesses when you're shopping online or on the internet. We have the algorithm behind why you're getting served that ad. Jen Shaw is the CEO and founder of three companies, JXA Fashion, Shaw Beauty, and The Real Shaw Lashes. We don't know that about you yet.  We need to, like, learn this throughout the season. I've been able to branch out and invest in, you know, our fashion company, our skincare line, our lash line. And for over 20 years, Jen Shaw worked in marketing. So what was Jen Shaw's initial reported net worth while on The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City? According to Cheat Sheet, Jen Shaw's net worth was $3 million. But it's often been alluded to that most of Jen Shaw's net worth came from her marketing endeavors. I own three different marketing companies and we do lead generation, data monetization, all the people clicking, I'm making money on every click. Jen talked about being a nerd at heart, talking about how she enjoys working with numbers, data, spreadsheets, and all the other stuff that everyone else finds boring. I'm like the Wizard of Oz, the person behind the curtain that nobody sees. Jen Shaw said of her work. The best way to describe it is I'm the Wizard of Oz. I'm like the one behind the curtain that nobody knows exists, but I'm the one making everything happen. Which again is very interesting, considering that this entire time, Jen Shaw was operating an illegal secret telemarketing scheme. Her entire career in marketing was one where she had a telemarketing scam that aimed to practically steal the entire life savings of the elderly and the vulnerable. So it's both extremely sad and kind of funny that Jen Shaw described herself as a Wizard of Oz-like character who's being secretive and working behind the curtain. And let's just say eventually the curtain was pulled back. There are moments where she's always screaming. She's actually worse off-screen. She threw a chili ball at me. Jen Shaw was one of the most talked about housewives from her franchise. I want it to be so amazing. Yeah, I want it to be fabulous. She's a self-proclaimed diva. Jen Shaw, I'm 28 years old, aka 45. I'm telling you what, she's two types of crazy now. And appeared on the first, well, two and a half seasons of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. When you think of Salt Lake City, it's Jen Shaw. I'm sorry, it's the Jen Shaw show. Until she, you know, went to jail. Jen Shaw's time on the Housewives franchise typically mixed charisma with cruelty. It's funny, this is the fun trip. Would you like me to pour this on your hips? Go ahead. Take blonde hair. Go right ahead. Really? No.  Viewers of the show watched her engage in countless physical alterations and screaming matches, often to silence and intimidate her cast. No. Don't sit here. Don't hit me. I am tired of, like, sitting here getting accused of stuff. As creator at Bravo Bravo Ducking Bravo noted, her friendships on the show felt fear-based, more than built from a mutual respect and real connection. Despite her dramatic interactions on the show, Jen Shaw was originally one of the most liked people on the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. That is, until her dark truth came to light. Now, some fans have a bitter taste in their mouth over Jen's actions on the show, according to the Daily Beast. Catherine Dory from Honolulu, Hawaii discussed with the Daily Beast feeling upset after finding out about Shaw's crimes, considering that she was a standout personality. The way the network pitched Jen in the first season, I thought we had another larger-than-live, funny, eccentric Housewives megastar. Seeing the severity of harm she's caused has literally made me stop watching the Housewives altogether. She literally ruined lives and never took accountability on the show in a meaningful way. I think the show actually promotes people to act like this. Selfish, angry when called out, self-promoting frauds. Very vulnerable people had their lives ruined, all because of her greed. I find it all grotesque. Alison Plutt from South Dakota doesn't want to see Jen on a public stage following her change of plea. I'm not interested in ever hearing from Jen again. She knew exactly what she was running and what they were doing. Jen clearly thought she was untouchable and could get away with anything, and then just couldn't resist the opportunity to flaunt her fake wealth. I believe she should have been off the show from the time her arrest information came out very quickly. Bravo rewarded bad behavior. Melbourne Australia-based viewer James Ann Frens remembered seeing how the show's marketing following Shaw's indictment centered on following her around town. I immediately thought of seeing Jen's face on the side of the bus earlier this year. Traveling around here in Melbourne Australia and surely other Australian cities and countries. Jen's scamming performative wealth and narcissism got her on the show, which in turn provided an international platform all at the expense of these elderly and vulnerable victims. Like that's effing crazy. These sources from the Daily Beast bring up a lot of good questions. Like did the real housewives of Salt Lake City support the behavior and actions of Jen Shaw by continuing to film it? and have Jen Shaw on the show throughout her legal troubles? I'm the only defendant left that is still going to try out. I'm not going to take a plea deal when I'm not guilty. I'm innocent. I guess it's fair to say innocent till proven guilty. The Constitution says you're innocent and so we've been guilty. Period. End of story. But is what makes good reality television and drama really more important than doing the ethical thing and standing up for victims? Because the way that the real housewives of Salt Lake City aired the legal drama, in my opinion, vastly, vastly undermined the true horrific fraudulent activities that Jen Shaw did. So let's really dive into the crimes of Jen Shaw. As mentioned, the real housewives of Salt Lake City's star Jen Shaw supported the lavish lifestyle that she flaunted on the show through wire fraud and a massive telemarketing scheme. Prosecutors say Shaw played a lead role in the crime that targeted and victimized thousands of people across the country. They would pass what we call lead lists from one telemarketing floor to another. The telemarketers have your name, they have your contact information, they even have your credit card information. The scheme lasted from 2012 until her and her assistant, Stuart Smith, were arrested in March of 2021. You have a comment on the charges at all? Leaving the U.S. federal courthouse in Salt Lake City, Jen Shaw stared straightforward and had nothing to say. Both Shaw and Stuart were arrested in Salt Lake City. Jen Shaw arrested at a strip mall. Tonight, real housewives of Salt Lake City reality show star-facing serious allegations. Jen Shaw and Stuart Smith now face federal fraud charges. According to the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Jen Shaw and Stuart Smith, who's portrayed as Jen Shaw's assistant on the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Stuart is my personal and business assistant. Stuart knows everything, he knows more than Sharif knows. Generated and sold lead lists of innocent people who could be targeted for their nationwide scam for about nine years. For nine years, they targeted and scammed people. And the feds say that many of those who were targeted were vulnerable, often elderly, working-class people who were duped by the promise of business opportunities involving Shaw, Smith, and their co-conspirators. These individuals were lured in by the false promises of financial security. I purchased a program to market on social media. I did purchase a social media package. But in reality, Shaw and her co-conspirators defrauded them out of their savings and left them with nothing to show for it. U.S. Attorney Damien Williams said in a statement, These people, you've got to understand, are really smooth. They know how to manipulate you. I just couldn't reach anybody. There was no website, nothing. All this is just a scam. So victims of the fraud were convinced to invest in bogus business opportunities and asked to spend money on basically fake services like web design help or tax preparation. And many of the victims were elderly people who didn't even own a computer, according to the court documents. And then Jen Shaw took the contact information of those victims and sold their information off to others in the larger fraud ring. It's a big web of overlapping telemarketing companies that oftentimes work together to scam victims. So basically, these victims would continually getting contacted by people in this fraud ring once their initial targeting worked to the point that the victims were targeted repeatedly until they ran out of money. I kept thinking, well, I've never talked to a victim myself. So I'm thinking, no, I couldn't have done any of these things. And then Jen Shaw turned around and used this money to spend lavishly on herself and her family. What's the most you've ever seen on a party at the gallery? Probably 82,000. I've loved jewelry ever since I was a little girl. I love enrolled because they're good luck and green. I mean, green reminds me of money. This home was built in 2020 where Shaw reportedly lives. The United States Justice Department said that Jen Shaw led a lavish lifestyle which she flaunted to the public as a symbol of her success. Her luxurious lifestyle included a rented 9,420 square foot mansion in Park City, Utah that she referred to as the Shaw Ski Chalet, a rented apartment in Midtown Manhattan and a least Porsche Panorama. According to Jen Shaw's own audition tape for the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, which was obtained by Page Six, Jen Shaw claimed that she spent at least $50,000 a month before she was arrested. I've always spent at least 50 grand a month. There are like 20 pieces of luggage when we travel and like maybe 17 are mine. My wife's shopping habits can be in and of themselves a daily source of my drama. And this is after a fraud ring where she repeatedly targeted vulnerable, often elderly victims for continuous scams until they were completely out of money. Again, the audacity of it all to then turn around and film yourself spending money that you scammed out of the most vulnerable population and demographics that there are. I know people were fans of Jen Shaw, but this is unequivocally extremely horrible. The elderly need their life savings so that they don't have to go back to work when physically they oftentimes can't work. They need their savings to tend to their health, scamming the elderly out of their life savings, which they desperately need.  The victims were commonly told during fake coaching sessions that the sessions would help them earn money from online businesses. Instead, the coaching sessions were designed to convince the victims that in order to make their internet business succeed, they would need to buy additional products and services, which were of little or no value. Did you agree to invest in this opportunity? Yes, I did. The one business that reclared, I send them $8,000. And did you do that? Yes. Then that's what really started me thinking that I'm way in too deep. Most of the victims were over 55 and some reported losing tens of thousands of dollars. I had spent over $29,000. So we ended up having to refinance our home and pay off our credit card debt. But according to the prosecutors, Jen Shaw was not deterred by Federal Trade Commission investigations and enforcement actions or by the arrest of dozens of others involved in the scheme. Instead, prosecutors said that Jen Shaw just tried to cover up what she was doing by telling others to lie and delete text messages, placing businesses and bank accounts under other people's names and taking steps to move some of her operations to Kosovo. The government alleges Jen and Stewart started messaging through encrypted applications so you can read their text messages and created shell companies in Kosovo. Basically, even though other people within this fraud ring were already being investigated and getting arrested, Jen Shaw decided to just keep going on with this fraud, instead just try and hide it a little bit better and continue to scam people out of money for her own benefit. I'm the only defendant left that is still going to trial. I have no idea what's going on with the other defendants in this case. I have no idea why they've taken a plea deal, but I'm not going to take a plea deal when I'm not guilty, I'm innocent. There was clearly no moment where she stopped and said, hmm, maybe I'm doing something wrong here. I was absolutely in denial that any of these accusations were real because I'm not a bad person. Instead, she just tried to find ways to make her illegal actions more untraceable, like having her operation in Kosovo so she can just keep doing what she's doing. My assumption in all of this is that Jen Shaw needed to continue doing this to bring in enough cash to continue having this luxurious lifestyle that she could continually flaunt on a reality show for her brand. Basically, she was accustomed to living a certain way and didn't want to do anything to stop that or would do whatever she could to keep that luxurious lifestyle going. So instead, in March of 2021, her scams finally caught up to her and basically, the gig was over. And the criminal case against Jen Shaw has been heavily featured on the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. My trial is seven weeks from today. It's on March 22nd. I'm the only defendant left. I have no idea what's going on. The Constitution says you're innocent and so you've been guilty. Period. End of story. Everything's going to win. Which basically turned the charges against Jen Shaw into a dramatic plot point of the show. In Jen Shaw's tagline for the second season of the show, she declared the only thing I'm guilty of is being Shaw amazing. I'm not going to take a plea deal when I'm not guilty. I'm innocent. Jen Shaw also sold, that's really hard to say, Justice for Jen Shaw t-shirts that featured not guilty on the front and hashtag Justice for Jen Shaw on the back, which in my opinion is a blatant slap in the face not only to victims, but to Jen Shaw's own fans who truly supported her at this time and believed her to be innocent. Meanwhile, she's getting money from them all off of, well, a false statement on a t-shirt. So instead of hashtag Justice for Jen Shaw, what about Justice for the Victims? Jen reportedly defrauded people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. NBC News reported that one Canadian woman lost $100,000 from the scheme. The woman said that she contemplated unaliving herself after losing the money and had to re-mortgage her own home. The burden you have caused me is overwhelming. I can't even really put into words the amount of anguish you have caused. The woman wrote in an impact statement per NBC News. Another victim said she invested $35,000 into what she thought was creating her own e-commerce business before realizing that she was being scammed. The woman said she had two heart attacks that she attributed to extreme stress. If I can talk to the people that scam me, I would say, would you do this to your mother? To your sister? And why would you do this? And why would you keep doing that? But instead of showing any remorse or taking any accountability, Jen Shaw was just seen on the Real Housewives Assault Lake City making shocking headlines and declaring her innocence, selling t-shirts saying not guilty, even making club appearances for some extra money, and basically doing whatever she could to get her case dropped. Due to the Hulu documentary about the case, Jen Shaw tried to get the judge to dismiss the criminal case against her because of what federal agents said about Jen Shaw and her case in the documentary. She's accused of an elaborate fraud scheme, a huge telemarketing fraud, speaking with the victims for start wrenching. According to legal documents obtained by TMZ, the Real Housewives Assault Lake City Star says the streaming service interviewed two special agents from Homeland Security for a new documentary where they gave out details about the investigation that weren't publicly available and opined on Shaw. In the documents, Jen says the agent's statements on the ABC News documentary destroyed any chance of her getting a fair trial because the program is full of opinions that will lead people to presume she's guilty. Shaw asked permission to file a motion to dismiss the indictment against her and wanted to hit the feds with sanctions and wanted the judge to order them to hand over any other information about any other collaborations prosecutors and the feds might have made with the media regarding her case. The judge did not agree with Jen Shaw's requests and to me the filing showed that Jen Shaw was really just most concerned about how her case was being portrayed publicly and all of her actions after her arrest really just shows someone who has zero remorse for the victims and is just trying to cover up her crimes in as many ways as possible but this didn't work and eventually Jen Shaw was convicted for her clear involvement in the telemarketing scheme. Jen was first arrested in the middle of filming the second season of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Bravo cameras caught Jen receiving a heads-up phone call that she claimed to be her cousin telling her that her husband was in the hospital. However, it was Sharif telling his wife that law enforcement was coming. Jen was arrested on the side of the road for wire fraud and money laundering charges. I'm not a bad person. No. And while the cameras were rolling for the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City season three, Jen was sentenced in a New York City federal court to six and a half years in prison for her part in the nationwide telemarketing scheme. Jennifer Shaw who as many many of you know is getting ready to surrender to federal prison for six and a half years. Shaw initially pleaded not guilty in April of 2021 but in July in a dramatic courtroom reversal a week before her trial had been scheduled to begin she pleaded guilty to the wire fraud count in a plea deal. And as part of her plea deal the prosecutors dropped one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering. She ended up being convicted of six and a half years in prison to be served at the Bryan federal prison camp in Texas. At sentencing Jen Shaw said that I have gone against these core values and I'm deeply sorry for what I have done. Adding that she wanted to apologize to the victims and families and take full responsibility for the harm I caused and will pay full restitution to all of the victims. As part of the plea agreement Jen Shaw agreed to forfeit 30 luxury items 78 counterfeit luxury items and to pay around 6.6 million dollars in restitution. The feds raided Jen Shaw's home. According to new legal documents obtained by TMZ Jen Shaw was sitting on a treasure trove of knockoffs including more than 30 counterfeit luxury bags and 40 pieces of counterfeit luxury bling. Jen's counterfeit collection included knockoff bags from designers like Chanel, Balenciaga, Hermes, Louis Vuitton, Valentino, Gucci, Jimmy Chou and Fendi mostly made in China. Jen Shaw's fake jewelry included pieces claiming to be designed by Bulgari, Chanel, Cartier, Louis Vuitton, Dior, Gucci, Hermes and Tiffany and Co.  It makes me wonder how many other reality stars, famous influencers etc are faking most of their life as well because at the end of the day the majority of Jen Shaw's life that she created on The Real Housewives and in her social media posts was entirely fraudulent. Before Jen Shaw reported to prison in February of 2023 Jen Shaw's attorney, Priya Shadri, tells TMZ Jen Shaw deeply regrets the mistakes that she's made and is profoundly sorry to the people she is hurt. Jen has faith in our justice system, understands that anyone who breaks the law will be punished and accepts this sentence as just. Jen will pay her debt to society and when she is a free woman again she vows to pay her debt to the victims harmed by her mistakes. My actions and my decisions, I mean bad decisions, I use poor judgment and as a result of that, as a direct result of that, there were people hurt. It's hard for me to believe that Jen Shaw is truly committed to repairing the damage she's done and making amends because Jen Shaw spent nine years defrauding people and ruining their lives all for her own personal gain and lavish lifestyle. To do that for nine years, nine years means in my opinion, you really have to have zero conscience whatsoever about what you're doing. She clearly was able to take advantage of people for many years, even go on the Real Housewives and show off her wealth from doing it. So, I'm sorry, but I don't really believe that now that she's been sentenced and has to go to prison, all of a sudden, she feels so terribly for the victims. I honestly, personally, think she only feels bad for herself. Now you're getting ready to surrender to federal prison. How are you feeling at this moment? There's so many emotions that I'm feeling right at this moment in getting ready to surrender. Emotional. Jen Shaw issued a lengthy statement from Prison Thursday recalling the horrible nightmare she experienced when having to say her final goodbyes to her family. Two miles from Bryan Federal Prison Camp, I could not breathe and my hands went numb. Shaw began in a post on Instagram. I knew I was having an anxiety attack. My worst fear and the unimaginable was about to happen. Having to say goodbye to my sweet husband and precious baby Omar, Shaw said the next few moments when they arrived at the prison gate happened so fast. The mother of two reiterated that she cried as she buried her face into her son Omar's chest and as she said her final farewell to him. As I looked into his eyes, tears streaming down my face, I told him he is the love of my life and I love him more than anything. Jen said having to declare her love for her spouse in those final moments with officers silently urging her to move along was the most horrible experience. It's as if you know your world is ending and you have 30 seconds to tell the people you love how much you love them and hope they feel your love and understand its magnitude. Jen Shaw, who is Muslim, then noted that her and her loved ones took a moment to pray to Allah. She also described how she was allegedly unable to bring some personal items with her to prison including her Quran, contact lists, or driver's license. The one item that made me feel instantly isolated was not having my contacts list. Jen Shaw said saying she didn't have the mental bandwidth to memorize everyone's phone numbers. Before concluding the post, Jen Shaw said, I am truly scared. I feel physically sick. I feel like I don't belong here. I thought I could do this but I've decided I can't. I want to go home right now but I know that's impossible. Please Allah, help me please. The Bravo Liberty also noted that in the post she planned to publish her work and invite others to hold her accountable. However, the comment section on her message was turned off. Which is kind of the opposite of being held accountable. On her website, Jen Shaw also wrote, As I stare into the dark, I think this has to be a dream but here I am. I keep thinking this is insane, completely ridiculous. Why am I here? Oh my gosh, okay. You definitely are someone who understands your crimes accountability much. I mean, I know why I'm here but this just feels like someone like me doesn't belong here. I've never been in trouble before. Oh my god. Shaw said she has to stop herself from going down this self-destructive path of thinking and remind herself that she's locked up because of her bad decisions. I'm here because I did this to myself. She did end up acknowledging. And there's no one to blame but me. Jen Shaw also said that she was filled with shame for putting her family through this ordeal. Their pain of having to watch me surrender yesterday and now the beginning of what will be 78 months without me is crushing my soul. Jen Shaw said she cried silently on her top bunk bed on her first night because her chest was hurting as if her heart had broken into a million pieces. But after Jen Shaw started serving time, the former Bravo Leopardy's sentence was reduced by one year and she's now scheduled to be released on August 30th of 2028. But recently Shaw's attorney, Priya Shadri, filed a motion asking to withdraw as counsel according to court documents due to Jen Shaw not paying her lawyer which to me says old habits die hard I guess. The documents say Shadri Law seeks to withdraw as counsel for defendant because the client has failed to pay the fees and expenses owed to the firm and has thus breached her contract with the firm. Jen Shaw's lawyer claims Shaw owes her $124,422. Shadri said in the filings that her firm has made several attempts to collect the outstanding fees and expenses including six times since July. Defendant and her husband repeatedly promised to pay these outstanding amounts and the firm continued to provide services relying on the written engagement with defendant and the promises of her husband. After Jen Shaw's sentencing in her wire fraud case, Jen Shaw seemed to sever ties with Bravo, refusing a one-on-one with Andy Cohen and Bravo because of their unwillingness to remove contractual provisions that allow the network to legally make misrepresentations of me and my story. Basically, it sounds like Jen Shaw didn't like how she was being portrayed on the show, you know, as a guilty person.   Jen Shaw is, for obvious reasons, not going to be on the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City anymore or at least for the next five to six years. Furthermore, Jen Shaw's husband will not be making any appearances in the upcoming season of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City while Jen Shaw is doing time, even though producers tried to get him on camera. Multiple sources with direct knowledge tell TMZ producers approached Jen's husband, Sharif Shaw, last month in hopes of getting him to appear on the new season. But after talking to his wife in prison, he ultimately declined the offer. Allegedly, the Bravo show production team wanted to have Sharif meet up with the other husbands of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City to talk about Jen's prison bid and how he's dealing with it. Sources say one of the reasons Sharif and Jen ultimately decided to pass on him making cameos is because they're not happy with how the network treated her after she was sentenced to six and a half years in prison. I'm guessing they probably treated her like a guilty person who's going to be in prison for six years. So how has Jen Shaw been doing ever since she went to the federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas? According to sources, Shaw isn't letting prison bars keep her out of showbiz and she's developing a stage play similar to her Housewives Bravo series. Jen's manager, Chris Giovanni, said that Shaw's working on a production aptly titled The Real Housewives of Bryan and the script revolves around the Real Housewives residing at FPC Bryan. When Jen Shaw gets released from prison, according to documents obtained, she has a requirement to participate in a mental health treatment program. At her sentencing, Jen got emotional as she apologized, saying, with the proper medication, I can now see what happened. And now that you know all the facts, I want to ask you, do you think Jen Shaw's prison sentence is fitting for her crime? Do you think $9 million in restitution and five and a half years in prison is enough or even too much for a nine-year fraudulent nationwide telemarketing scheme? And is Jen Shaw taking accountability for her actions now or simply just playing the part that everyone wants to see? There will always be people that pray on the week. But what's sick is that time and time again, these people are praised for their success in our society. And that needs to change if we have any hope of becoming a peaceful society. Jen Shaw is a prime example of someone who was praised and rewarded for what ended up being her horrific acts against the vulnerable people of our society. She was seen as a successful person who got airtime on a reality show meant to showcase the wealthiest women of our society, rewarded for doing something horrible, rewarded for walking all over the less fortunate. And I don't know what to say other than that the fact that this went unchecked for so long makes me really sad. And that's the story of Jen Shaw and the Shawshank redemption. I hope you enjoyed the video and if you made it to the end thank you so much for watching all the way to the end that really means a lot to me since I put so much research time and effort into these videos. I hope you're doing well and I'll see you in the next video. Have a good one until then. Bye.


Thank you very much, Kristen. And good afternoon, Linux Foundation. It's wonderful to be with you today. Just a brief note to, I'd like to thank all the organizers for everything they've done to make this go as smoothly as well. It's on me now, how smooth it goes. So let's get on with it. Welcome to Better Reliability with SLOs. If you've been familiar with it, this is heavily adapted from DataDog's 2020 SLO workshop. Slightly expanded material, but it's a great primer for getting to understand how and why to use SLOs. But that's a large part of what we'll cover today. Now, because of the ways that my brain is broken, since talking about SLOs, you also need to discuss SLAs and SLIs. The unofficial subtitle for this talk is S-L-A-E-E-I-O-U, and definitely why. But to go inside baseball, no matter how I tried to write that out, it just didn't make sense when you're reading it. You have to hear it said. And I apologize for anybody who didn't learn English as a first language. You're in the U.S., that's how we, A-E-I-O-U, and sometimes why, is how we learn the vowels of the alphabet. So moving on, the things that we're going to cover today are mainly SLIs, SLOs, and SLAs. We want to talk about what it takes to define and what quality targets are that feeds naturally into what error budgets are. And we'll talk about some practical examples. But you may be wondering who that bearded beauty is and why is he talking to me? Well, I'm Aldo. I used to be a productive member of society before I took this job, but I come from the systems and operations engineering world. Before accidentally going to the right conference, I was a fairly typical bitter sysadmin type. The DevOps community was still pretty new, but attending Velocity in 2011 was revelatory for me. That week literally changed my career. I'd simply never been in an organization that didn't have a contentious and often even antagonistic relationship between the people who make things and the people who run things. Because of this and the relationships between DevOps and SRE, I'm here to talk about one of the steps that enables a healthy transition into incorporating SRE and DevOps practices into your organization. So technical people, we love acronyms, and in this case we've got three TLA's that are very similar, so it's easy to get them mixed up. So we're going to start with some nice tidy definitions just to clear things up and make sure we're on the same page. We'll start with SLIs. A service level indicator is a quantitative measurement that expresses an aspect of the service, and this is usually a metric. The key word here is quantitative. You have to be able to measure something with a reasonable degree of accuracy. This can't just be a gut feeling. SLIs are the basis of SLOs, so we'll look at that next. A service level objective is a target value for a service as measured via an SLI. The idea here is to pick a reasonable value that should be maintained or striven for, for a given SLI. We'll get into a few examples later on, but the core idea here is that an SLO is a target. It's a goal. It's something aim for and spoiler alert is ultimately a way of measuring the success or failure of a service over time. Now it can be reasonably argued that SLOs are the basis for SLAs, even if it's not how things historically have run. They should be related to each other, but previously SLAs generally were created without referencing any kind of SLO. But an SLA is a service level agreement. It's a contract that defines results and consequences of meeting or missing one or more SLO agreements, targets. Now words like agreement and promise and contract, these are all words that can be used to describe SLAs. The important thing here is that it's a statement that codifies what happens when an SLO target is missed. In principle, that result could be anything, but it commonly takes the form of a business decision. Now, as you may be able to guess, there's more than just monitoring tools at play here. It's truly a team effort when it comes to identifying, scoping, defining, and ultimately implementing SLIs, SLOs, and SLAs. In all of your thinking about this, I want you to focus on the user experience. Users in this case are customers, whether internal or external. So let's talk about what a quality target is. Again, focusing on the user, how do they interact with your product? How did they use it? What is their workflow? What services that you run do they interact with? What do your users want? What do they expect? Now, we should say upfront that not all values make good SLIs. System resources, quorum state, number of lines per commit, these values can have use, but your customers don't care about them. It doesn't matter to them. Things you should focus on are things that impact the user experience. Things like the realm of response and requests, were they available? How long did it take? Do you have enough resources in play so that your customers' requests can be completed efficiently and quickly? Can the data be available, accessed when it's needed? How long does it take to grab that? And if there are failures, if there are hiccups, if there are disturbances, how long does it take? Is the data still there when you need it? And how long does it take to rectify? And in the category of pipelines, is the right data coming out of your data processing? And freshness, how long does it take for new data to be incorporated? Now, SLIs are applied values. And your indicators, your SLIs should have a relationship to the user's experience. Now, looking at these two examples, the number of requests to an endpoint that completes successfully and the number of requests to an endpoint that complete within 500 milliseconds. Consider that these are very subtle but important differences. Consider that the second one doesn't explicitly state a successful request, only that it was completed in under 500 milliseconds. Reliable failure conditions are indicators too. You should be able to see a failure and be able to understand why. It doesn't necessarily mean that the failure is bad, but it can be an indicator of more resiliency that can be built into your processes and into your services. Now, SLOs are applied SLIs. Objectives have both a target and a time window. And it's not uncommon for these to be a complex statement, including percentiles of a metric over time. Now, there's usually a penalty for SLAs that's often financial, but these kinds of things are much more common when money changes hands between companies rather than between teams or organizations within the same company. These SLAs address expectations and impacts. Now, coming to error budgets, when we talk about an SLO's availability over time, that time remaining in short is what becomes your error budget. Now, we all love to move fast and break things, but when you have customers on the line, customers experience on the line, you need to move fast and fix things. Failure is unavoidable, but how you respond is really important. The idea overarching all of this is that you want to balance your innovation and novelty with reliability and stability. So, building error budgets or determining what they should be, an SLO is ultimately identified by the product opener. The actual objective is measured by a neutral party, like a monitoring system, something that just tells you the facts. Now, the difference between the actual measurement and the objective, or sorry, the total time period and the objective is your error budget. And you should spend your budgets, like organizations that do annual financial planning, use it or lose it. You should think of it as your error budget is time to play, time to innovate, or run some experiments, for instance. If the SLO is currently being met, you have freedom, you have room to move. So, try some new features, maybe something that was experimental or not quite ready for, not quite ready to be called complete, but you're ready to get some feedback. Maybe trigger some planned downtime to take care of maintenance that's been sitting in the sidelines. Now, if your budget is zero or negative, you should concentrate on that. Freeze your new feature development and improve your observability story. Make your reliability higher. Look at ways that your service is failing and try to mitigate those instances. Now, having talked about that, let's talk about some practical examples. We have a brand new photo sharing site. I'm told that the O character is pronounced F, so you would say this as photosite.net, which is fun and also critically not real. I also suspect that the friend that I was collaborating on with us is subtly messing with me, so we can poke fun at him later. But in our photo application, again, starting with the user's experience, how do they interact with our product? By clicking and viewing photos, doing searches, uploading photos. Now, their workflow is they log in, they search photos, they view and download them. What services do they interact with? Accounts back end, very viewing and uploading services, things like that. And what do they want? What do they expect? They want it to be fast and they want it to be accurate. So some of the indicators that photosite.net relies on, as far as requests and response goes, one of the key features is availability. Could our services respond to the request? In latency, how long did it take to respond to that click? And throughput, do we have enough back end to make sure that the requests are handled promptly? In the storage category, we look at availability. Can the data that's requested be accessed when it's needed? How long does it take to read or write the data? And for durability, is the data there when it's needed? Now, in the pipeline category, was the right data return? This is, if you click on one thing and get another, you're going to be upset. And freshness, how long does it take for a new version of a photo or processed results to appear? Resizing is a very common feature. How long did it take to return that? But not everything, when thinking about SLOs and the services that we run, we need to consider all the services that we run and we depend on. Not everything we run are things that we wrote. So in the Linux foundation diaspora, I found some projects that fall very squarely into this category, such as continuous integration projects like Jenkins, Jenkins, Zaks, and Spinnaker. He values doors like at CD and data collectors like FluentD. There were a lot of products. It's been a while since I made myself familiar with the LF catalog. And there were a lot of things I just hadn't heard of before or were pretty novel. There was one about transferring hospital data between sites, some of which were offline or did not have internet access reliably. That I thought was a really interesting project that I need to look into more. But all of these different services I mentioned, CI, key value stores, and data collection and pipelines, they have very different operational profiles. When thinking about SLOs and the services that we run, we need to consider all of them. Now, in my experience, these three types of services fall under one of two operational models. They're either properly managed or they were thrown together and nobody owns them and they just run in the background until it fails. For instance, very commonly, CI and CD tools often fall into the latter category until a company reaches a certain level of maturity. But these tools are most often triggered by human behavior. New code releases usually ultimately come from a human initiating a change, triggering build, testing workflows, and ultimately providing deployable artifacts. Now, perhaps CI and CD tooling has different SLOs for working hours versus nonworking hours. For instance, if you have a team that's relatively co-located, at least in the same time zone, maybe your SLO for off hours is very different than when people are expected to be working. Now, if you work on a team that's global, that kind of goes out the window. But if you do have different times where your services need to be available, you should also plan on contingencies that can be put in place for situations when, for instance, an emergency response is needed during your typical nonworking hours. Now, key value stores might not need much in the way development or configuration changes, but they do need to be kept up to date periodically. How you're consuming apps use the data provided by, for instance, NCD. You might need a low degree of availability, such as when processes are generally long running and they don't have much churn in the values or only checked at startup. But on the other end, you may have things that require a high degree of availability, like when configurations maybe change live or they're supporting something like Kubernetes, where it's constantly spinning up new instances and Quorum is often needed. The configuration information is needed fairly frequently because individual instances get recycled. Now, if you're running a data collection or data pipeline tool, like Fluent D, you probably work in one of two modes. The first one I would consider the more common where it's always on for continuous or unpredictable ingestion patterns, such as a common metrics collection services or shopping cart processing. On the other end, you might have predictable but high burst data collections. In my mind, the best example is the large Hadron Collider at CERN. They know when they're running experiments, but more importantly, they know when they're not. So they have a lot of downtime in between sessions when Fluent D, for instance, if that's part of their tool chain, doesn't need to be available. And you can do a lot of maintenance and experiments in the off time. But when they're going to run a LHC burst test, they need a code freeze and that service needs to be rock steady available during those times. So we have very different operational profiles, so they should have very different availability targets. You should allow your teams to be flexible when they're describing the SLOs for your individual services needs. So now that we've covered the main parts, we're going to cover a few tips. Now Datadog has an SLO product that helps you make decide these things and make these decisions more easily, especially in terms of the day-to-day, are we working on feature development or resiliency? We have monitor-based and event-based SLOs. Monitors are typically based on metrics or monitors which are tied to metrics. So they're values within a set timeframe. For instance, 99% of the time we want latency to be less than 200 milliseconds. Or event-based, these are more akin to statements like a success ratio. So we want 99% of our request to have latency less than 20 milliseconds. A common, the four golden signals view of metrics is often a useful guidepost for thinking about the different thinking about the different types of metrics, whether a metric is useful or not in this circumstance when choosing an SLO. So and the four golden signals gives you the acronym let's for latency, error, traffic, and saturation. There's plenty of information out there. It's you don't need to hear me talk about it now. But no matter what you do, you want to focus on your users. Step back from the engineering, interesting problems in the day-to-day, develop your user stories and journeys first and then figure out what SLIs apply to your thing. Also involve all your stakeholders. Your stakeholders are included, of course, your product managers and product owners, the engineers, but also your management and executive teams. Because they need to be on board with the idea that 100% reliability isn't, it's not possible and it's also not really desirable in most cases. So when you get into SLOs and starting on this journey, gain experience by starting small. Build out experiments and see what works for you. Building out data sets to make sure that you have reliable data and a historical data to be able to start figuring out what your baselines look at. And at first err on the side of naivety. It's a lot easier to start with a relatively low success rate, say like 80% over a week and make it more stringent over time as you find that you actually need it. But the, it's much harder to convince people to say to when you start off with we need an SLO of four nines to be able to say, you know, we really don't need that much availability. Let's start with, let's go down to two. That will freak people out. So start small. And remember that SLOs need to change.  And with that said, SLAs, the agreements with your customers, these have to have the capability to evolve too. This is common. It's not a great practice, but it's common when you get updated terms and conditions from any number of services, from your banks to your video game services to whatever. Ideally, being more transparent about those changes is better, but I can't make that decision for you. Now finally, tooling matters. Being able to have, again, that independent view of what your success looks like at the moment, as well as being able to share what your current status is can make a world of difference. For instance, if you're running an experiment, if you're having a little downtime that is, but you still have a lot of air budget to play with, it's useful to be able to provide that information to your customers, especially if they're internal, so that they're not necessarily banging down your door when you're running an experiment or experiencing an outage that just isn't that you can live with. So being transparent with this information is what helps this become a wildly successful program. Now finally, in the last section, because as I teased with our subtitle, S-L-A-E-I-O-U, but definitely why, let's cover some more letters. First, I'm going to do S-L-E for environments. Now I've worked in places that didn't have one production environment or two, but 30. Everything, no matter how customer-facing or not, was considered pager-worthy. This is not a great way to work. If you have multiple environments as part of your SLOs and your API documentation, you should be clear about, for instance, what your staging environment is for. Is it for your team to test things? Is it for other teams to test integrations with your services? What kind of availability do you promise for them? Next, we have S-L-U for updates. Now these are not intended to be written in stone. You should review your SLOs and your related metrics to make sure that they still make sense. Are you still using the proper metrics? Are you targeting the proper uptimes? These are just some of the questions you should be looking at periodically. Now, a common problem I've experienced is, has your service become a greater dependency than was intended? Has it become a critical path? For instance, like you're only running at maybe two-nines of availability, but somebody found it was cool and then before you know it, you have a four-nine service that has a hard dependency on you. The opposite could be true as well. It's surprising to comment how suddenly proof of concept becomes mission critical, and keeping an eye on that is always healthy. But when you think that you could use a service level update, put out a quick survey or an RFC on it to your customers. This is especially easy if this is internal. But when a decision is made, to make a change, update your docs and communicate your decision broadly, especially to those internal customers. And finally, we come to SLY, or better stated, SLY. Coming up with an SLOs is a first step towards bringing sanity to the operation of products. In many places, any outage is considered an emergency. If our businesses demand 100% uptime, we just don't have the time to experiment or even make healthy mistakes. Here's the thing. The truth is that building individual services so that the resilience of faults in their dependencies makes for a better user experience. Additionally, having a healthier relationship with faults by preventing every fault from becoming a three-alarm emergency allows times more comfort and flexibility for dealing with faults when they occur. That's making your product teams, your engineering teams, more willing to own the resilience and availability of their services. Now, in closing, things that we've covered today are SLIs, SLOs, and SLAs, how to define quality targets, what error budgets are and why you should use them, and we've given you some practical examples. With that, I'd like to thank you and open things up for other questions. I'll stop sharing my screen and take a look at the Q&A widget now. If you have more questions that you haven't typed up already, feel free to jump in there. Thank you. Okay, moving my window over and opening the Q&A widget, let's see. Are there any, from Kenneth Jones, are there any known tools that can build a dependency chain or tree that show the software systems that underpin an SLI? These would be helpful to understand the full set of services that affect performance. Okay, I would say that you are, all right, I'm going to answer this as an evangelist. So one, having documentation of how things run, what their dependencies are, and what are dependent on them is wholly useful, is entirely necessary and often overlooked if it's not done through tooling properly. It's just hard to keep documentation up to date because we always have more things to do than time to do them, and documentation is unfortunately one of the things that fails. You're going to have to forgive me for a moment, but Datadog, when you implement our APM product, we give you a service map that shows the active real-time flow of data in your environment. Give me a second and I'll pull up an example doing this off-screen so that, well, for obvious reasons, I just need to make sure I'm in the right organization too. All right, so sharing my, where'd the widget go? Okay, okay, you should see a window with the Datadog app under APM. So when you install the APM and configure it for your service, it shows automatically this gets built out a service map of all the interactions that are happening, the relationships as well as how much traffic they receive. Now, this is a demo app, so things are, this is actually pretty boring as far as how traffic looks, but you'll see different indicators change for how many requests they get or node sizes or, you know, this is all configurable, but it shows you a real-time view of what's available, where the dependency lies and so on. I apologize for the company man aspect to that answer, but yes, this is something you can get with a lot of tooling. You can build this out yourself if you want to, but this comes for free using our APM product. So, Kenneth, I hope that answered your question. If not, feel free to drop some follow-up in the QAA session. From Aditya Pandey, does SLI, SLO and SLA get affected by COVID or any global situation in terms of performance finance and other aspects? I'm not sure if I answer your question or understand what you're asking, but I will try to, I would say that your performance targets don't necessarily change in terms of, you know, the world situation or anything going on in the world that happens meta to your technology. I would say that you would still strive for the same availability targets, but depending on your service, you may not have as much, you may have less or more traffic depending on the types of services. For instance, if you hit your Zoom and Zoom was hot on the lips of everybody when the pandemic started, you probably, you may have increased your various, various availability targets because you became so, because they became so key to life in the pandemic. Whereas on the other hand, if you were running hotels or say the Disney parks, something along those lines, well, when foot traffic dropped way off, on the one hand, it was less of an impact if somebody, you didn't have as many customers coming in, but the individual experience mattered more. So if there was a small number of failures in the quantitative state as a percentile, they became much more impactful. I hope I answered your question. If you have, again, if it wasn't helpful or if it didn't make sense, please feel free to add some context around that and I'll be happy to give it another shot. From Adam Escamilla, thank you for the, he says, thank you for the nice constructive talk. Thank you for the feedback. I hope that it was helpful for you and you can have useful discussions moving on. It seems a fear, how to estimate error budgets, how to get started. So, you know, another version of this slide deck has the formula for this and I apologize for not having it in here. So, your error budget is a very simple ratio or very simple formula. Your error budget is the total number of valid events or good events over the total number of valid, sorry, the number of good events over the number of possible events or completed successful events over your time period. So, an SLO could be defined like per, it's a metric or a ratio over a time period. So, if your time period is, we want 99% of successful requests within 24 hours or within a week or a month, that's a rolling number.  So, that's, if I didn't explain that well, I'd be happy to look around for the, where I have that formula more properly formulated, but let me know if this answer didn't work for you. Let's see, from David, sorry, David Dunham, do you use a RMM like Datto to do the SLI metrics? I do not know what RMM or Datto are, but you can use any metrics provider. Of course, I'm going to talk about Datadog because we're a Datadog, but it's any, you can use any metric as long as it makes sense, as long as it relates to the customer experience. And again, you want to avoid things like system level metrics.  I hope that helps. And if we can also take this discussion offline, I suppose. All right. Now, Rakesh gives us our, gives our question, how to write good SLOs for SAS or PAS solution? Any white paper or links? So a good resource to start.  Now, your SLOs are typically going to be internal. Those are for your product teams who are providing services that solve problems. And ultimately, those solutions are in the service of the company that you're running. So that actually gets more into SLA territory. But the, let's see, as far as white papers or links, we have a bunch of articles on the Datadog blog. I would also encourage you, and this is again in service of SLOs mainly, when you writing SLOs, writing SLAs based on SLOs, your SLAs should be much more, your SLOs should be more stringent than your SLAs. And for instance, if you were to look at your internet provider or if you're looking at a cloud provider's SLAs, what they promise for their service, it's usually a very achievable target. And it's often defined in such a way that they don't suffer financial penalty, even things go horribly wrong. It's another thing I didn't cover much in here is that SLAs, SLAs are usually, it's the realm of lawyers and company executives, whereas in SLOs are much more, much more the realm of engineering and product management kind of things. So the, I would also encourage people take a look at the relevant chapter in the, in Google's SRE book that came out in 2016. It didn't, it covers that material very well. And also, Jennifer Petoff, who works at Google, has also given excellent talks on the implementation and daily usage of SLOs in a, it did today, real world context as well. So I hope that helped. Kenneth again, thank you. I'm glad the service map helped. I'm glad I thought about that on time. Let's see. Kenneth, awesome. I'm glad I could help. Do you have any point, excuse me, my tongue is not going to do that well. Polianco, again, apologies. Is there some guidelines to define reasonable alert thresholds to avoid false positives on breaching SLOs? Now, you're, we do have SLO monitoring within the data dog product. You typically want to, it's a good idea to have, to send alerts when you're about to breach an SLO. But you should already be aware of the problem that, you should already have a notification that there is a problem with, with the service that you're, that you're running beforehand. And this would, from my question, yes, it is a good idea to have a monitor at a slightly more stringent level than the SLO you're doing when it looks like you may be about to breach it. So I do think that that's, I can't give you hard deadline or hard guidelines. And it's also something that you can tweak over time very easily is when you're approaching an SLO limit. So I hope that helps you, Evan. And again, apologies for my bad pronunciation. Let's see. So next is from Rassi Karyuki. How do, how does one combine SLO, SLOs from automated tests, like uptime measurement using synthetics and service specific measurements, like successful transactions, response times, percentiles measured from actual traffic. Okay. So, okay. As far as that goes, like, actually all the things that the things that you mentioned are valuable SLIs. And I, I hesitate to recommend, let's say you can have multiple SLIs feed into an SLO. But it also, in terms of starting small, I wouldn't start with a multi metric SLO to begin with. Start small, start simple. You can have multiple SLOs for your service, especially in, as you're starting out, especially for, you know, maybe the first six months, maybe the first year, you can have multiple SLOs and judge on various, various axes. And as you refine your numbers and as you refine your services and your workflow through it, then I would consider maybe after a couple quarters to combine multiple measurements into, into an SLO. I definitely wouldn't start off there though. I hope that, I hope that answered your question, Rasi. If not, feel free to post a follow-up. Now, Patricia Funnell asks, could you explain durability a bit more? What type of conditions would affect durability? And what's an example of an error budget for durability? Durability in terms of data, I assume. This is, that's a, that's an excellent question that doesn't come up very often. The simple matter is if the data is bad live, how can I get it back to correct? And that's, that's an interesting question that, like I said, doesn't come up very often. But if you have a data storage problem, I would, and that's largely what this comes around to is, is data storage and availability and correctness. And if things should go wrong, how do you recover and how long does, what, what is the latency between identifying a problem and being able to correct it? And in that view, I think it's, it's going to be very much a case-by-case basis, what your action is or what your, what your, your objectives look like. And unfortunately, I think that's, I hate to say it depends, but I think this is a very strong case for it depends on like what kind of storage you're using, what the mechanisms are available are. And I think there's so much to that, that that could be its own talk that you should give about your environments and your lived experience in trying to solve what, what data storage durability looks like and what kind of SLOs you looked at, experimented with and solutions to, to deal with that a bit more. I wish I had a more satisfying answer, but I would love to see you give this talk. All right. With that, let's see. We have a few more minutes. If people have questions or follow-ups to questions, earlier questions, I'd be happy to take them now. But if we go a couple minutes without any, without anything, thank you all very much for attending and I hope you got something out of this. Yes. Thank you so much, Waldo. That was great. Really appreciate you going through all of those questions. Oh, thank you. Thanks everyone for joining us. And hope you all have a great day. Thanks. Bye.


Hello, John. What's on your mind today? I was watching a movie last night, and I noticed a lot of statements that follow a pattern. Like what? Statements such as, I guess so, or I don't think so. Oh, shortened statements with the word so. That's right. They are quite common, particularly in everyday discussions. Yes, English speakers sometimes replace clauses, groups of word with a subject and a predicate, with the word so. But only when the clause repeats information. That's right. Let's give an example. If I asked you, have you seen this movie? You could say, I don't think so. Here is what the example would have sounded like if you had not used the shortened statement. Have you seen this movie? I don't think that I have seen this movie. Why do you think English speakers shorten clauses that way? Is it just laziness? Ha! No, no, it's not about laziness. It's about keeping discussions moving along. Imagine how slow conversations would be if we repeated information over and over again. That's right. English speakers often shorten clauses after certain verbs. Think, guess, and say. And that's why statements such as, I think so, I guess so, or she said so are so common. Is that all we want to teach today? I think so. And I hope so because we're out of time. And that's everyday grammar.