I am so excited to introduce you to our keynote speaker tonight. When we were talking about who would be a great keynote, last year we had Eric Belchunis. Many of you were there, and he was so good. But we wanted to capture that same level of engagement, humor, intelligence that Eric brought, and we thought with Alan Roth's help that Clark Howard would be a perfect person to be here. So Clark is a noted consumer advocate. He has one of the top podcasts for financial information out there, the Clark Howard show. And in a lot of ways it's a beautiful compliment to Bogleheads, I think, because Bogleheads is all about figuring out how to invest your portfolio and save money on your investments. And Clark's work is all about how to spend in a way that kind of maximizes your value. So I think it just is a perfect compliment to the investment stuff that we think about all the time. Clark is going to talk for a while, and then he will also take your questions. So we have a mic here. We've been kind of holding back on the open mic thing during this conference, but for this part of the event, we will take your questions. Clark loves taking questions, and yeah, so if you want to hear about how to score the best deal on an electric vehicle, or a vacation in Costa Rica or whatever, Clark's your guy. So we're looking forward to hearing from him. Clark, if you can come on up. Thank you. Y'all ready for some fun? So it's so exciting for me to be in this room with people who are also frugal. I will tell you, I am not frugal. I am cheap. Y'all know the difference between frugal and cheap? Cheap is when you'll take lower quality for a lower price, and that is me. And I have had a very unusual life. I grew up in the south. We didn't have child labor laws. And when I was growing up, I'm 68. So we really didn't when I was a kid. And so I had my first job when I was 11. I was working in a warehouse, not a very safe warehouse. And I started saving money then. And I opened, not Roth IRAs, traditional IRAs first came along when I was a teen. And as soon as I could, I opened one and contributed to it. And I grew up in Atlanta and decided that what I wanted to do was be a politician. So nobody laughed when I said that. That was actually true. I wanted to be a politician. So I applied to one college, the best school in America for political science, Georgetown University. Any Georgetown graduates in here? We got one Georgetown graduate here. I didn't apply to any other schools. And then this is before the internet, you got an envelope. You either got a thick envelope or a thin one. I got the thin one. I had missed the application to apply everywhere at that point. Well, American University just down the road from here really needed students. And they took me. So I enrolled in American to study political science. And when I came home from college my freshman year at Thanksgiving, my dad was looking terrible, looking awful. And we were at dinner that first night home from college at Thanksgiving. And nobody was smiling. Nobody was laughing. And I'm like, something's really wrong here. And after dinner, my dad asked me to stay at the table. And I'm like, this is it. And he said, I have something terrible to tell you. And he said, I got fired from my job. And I started smiling. And he said, why are you smiling? And I said, because I thought you were dying. And so then he said, there's no money for you to go back to college in January. And I was like, what? Because my parents lived a really high-voltage life, a really fancy life. They figured out how to be an American before Americans are now, where they lived on money they didn't have and all the rest. And so this was one of the most important events in my life was what happened with my dad. And after a few years my parents got back on their feet. But American turned out to be the luckiest break for me because most of the students at American were night students. They worked full-time and went to college at night. So all I did was I scrambled when I got back those three weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas and I got a job. And I got a job is, I don't know if there's a term or meaning by anything to anybody. I was a GS4 with the federal government. Nobody's ever met a GS4. But I was a GS4, I was making 7,596, I'm not holding the mic close enough, am I? I was making $7,596 a year as a federal employee. Well, American was 2,400 a year and I rented a really terrible apartment with a friend and my rent was $124.50 a month. So I was able to work full-time, go to college at night, get a degree, have not a penny of student loan debt and get my degree. You can't do that now.  But back then, we didn't have all these fancy campuses and all the big expense as I was able to get my degree. But what happened was it changed me. And I resolved I was never going to live my life like my parents handled money. And something happens to you as a teenager. I don't know if anybody in this room had something happen to them as a teenager, but it changes you. It changes you if something traumatic happens when you're a teen. And so I resolved that I was going to live on every other paycheck. And so I saved starting at 20 years old, because that's when I graduated from an American. I lived on every other paycheck. And grad school, I got paid for for free because I left the government, I was a GS5 by then for those of you who know what that is. And I got a job at IBM as a bill collector. And they paid for my grad school. And I actually did okay as a bill collector, but I hated the job. So as soon as I finished grad school, I quit. But anyway, I got my master's degree for nothing in business. Because the truth is after three years with the federal government, it wasn't for me. And I decided politics wasn't my thing. But the reason I mentioned this is that it worked for me. I lived on much less than what I make. And you think about the principles of what so much in the culture in this room, it is about living on less than what you make. I deal with consumers every day on the podcast, radio, TV, wherever. We do websites and all this stuff.  We just hit a record on credit card debt in the United States. I think it's $1.1 trillion collectively in credit card debt. How are you supposed to save for a rainy day? How are you supposed to save for your kid's college? How are you supposed to save for retirement when you owe all that money to Visa and MasterCard at the average bank interest rate now 22%. Now, if you know somebody who's in credit card debt, they need to know this. Do you know the average interest rate at a credit union for a credit card is 12%. And I've always referred to Vanguard to my listeners and my viewers as a credit union for investing. I've always thought of it that way and that's how I've always explained it. And when you think about what it's always been about, it's been about buy and for the members. But you know that's only one part of what makes a company great. The first part is you have to treat your employees well. The great companies treat their employees well and in turn treat their customers well. Business is complex, business can be complicated.  And you're treating your employees well. And there are very few companies, it's the simplest thing in capitalism. Enlightened self-interest do right by your employees and your customers. And I think about two companies in retail. One of them, we have a dog named Kirkland Signature. And you think I'm kidding? No, the deal is my wife gets to have dogs, but I get to name them. So we used to have a dog named Costco Wholesale and unfortunately, she's passed away. So now we have Kirkland Signature and do you know that Kirkland Signature will sell $60 billion as a brand in 23? One of the world's most successful brand names is not even a brand name. But Costco pays their employees incredibly well, gives part-timers full health benefits, has a markup on the merchandise in the store of 14% unless it's Kirkland Signature when it's 15%. Everything they're about is value. And they are now the third largest retailer in the world, I think. From nothing, they started in 1984 or three. And they are this monstrously large company. And they've done it because they treat their employees well and they treat their customers well. Now I'm a Sam's Club member as well. Do we have any Sam's Club members? Do we have any Sam's Club members that are also Costco members? Raise your hand. Okay, so let's take a trip down each store's checkout. So you're in Costco and you get the front and they're checking you out. They have two people working each register and they're hustling. And if they've got a price problem, there's not a SKU, not a barcode on something. One of those Costco people takes the item, runs back. You tell them where you think you found it in the store. They run back there and they find it and they run back to the front. What did they do at Sam's Club when you get to the front? And the item doesn't have a SKU on it or doesn't ring up. They'll say, stand and have a SKU. And then look at you like what are you going to do about it? It's got to be both. You've got to take care of the employee so they can take care of the customer. And that's the thing. It's easy. It's simple. Business is hard. But we make it harder in capitalism than we need to because we forget that. You know, I believe that Walmart, the parent company of Sam's Club, is one of the greatest anti-poverty programs in the history of the world. That they have the most efficient distribution system for consumer goods of anybody on planet Earth. And the prices are great and all that. But they only do half of it. They only do half of it. They do the pricing right. They don't treat the employees right. And that's why when you go to Sam's Club, which they own, or you go to Walmart, it's just really a difficult experience for the employees working there and the customers buying there. And so that's the thing. And you think about how many, can anybody name another company that you think does that combination? Vanguard. And we've got also my Costco people. Chick-fil-A. All right. Who knows the history of why Chick-fil-A does a better job at their stores than any other fast food restaurant other than Culver's? If anybody knows Culver's from the Midwest. Puster, do you like best at Culver's? I like the Butterburger with Swiss cheese. Okay. So what is the magic, and this is a capitalist thing. What is the magic of Chick-fil-A and Culver's? Who knows how they operate? They make them better than everybody else in fast food. And we have a mic right here. Somebody knows the story. It's not the Sunday's off. Culver's is seven days a week. Who said it? Who just said it? You said, will you stand up? Say it so everybody can hear you on the mic. They're not franchise. That is exactly right. If you look at the capitalist arrangement between a McDonald's store like the one across here and McDonald's corporate in Illinois, the franchise and the store are arch rivals with each other, right? Because all McDonald's wants is they want their royalties. And all the store wants is they want to make money. But McDonald's is always forcing the operators into all these discounts they don't want to do and hours they have to be open. And it's an adversarial relationship. And now the states all have these franchise laws where McDonald's and all the other owners of franchises can't kick out a bad operator. Chick-fil-A and Culver's, the way they do it is you're an operator. You don't have to put any money in. You operate that store at their pleasure. If they decide you're not performing or you're not treating your employees well, you're out instantly. And the employee operator and the company split the profits 50-50. The interests are aligned. Chick-fil-A sells something like $5.7 million per location. A Burger King right now might do $500,000 a location. And it's because they got the incentives right, the motivation. The employees are motivated to be there. They are treated well. They're given college scholarship money if they're in high school. This isn't hard. You just treat people right. And I have done it in my own life, in my own business. I have 44 employees with my company. And what I do for my employees is each year I do three special things. One, I take them on a shopping spree every Christmas based on our profits. They're given money and costs go and they're given one hour to run around and spend it. Second, I take them on a trip wherever in the world I find that's on sale. So earlier this year we went to Singapore and Thailand because it was on sale. And every year we go wherever so people keep asking, where are we going on the trip in 24? I said, wherever goes on sale. And so we've been to every continent except Antarctica. We go wherever and they so look forward to it. But the cool thing is their friends who work wherever else they work, they tell them they're going on the trip and they're like, you're doing what? Yeah, it's something we got at work. And they're just blown away but it creates this special sense of reward. But the third thing I do is I take 50% of my company's profits each year and I pay them out to the employees. And so the employees totally operate, think like owners. When COVID hit and it was so disruptive to so many businesses and our revenue because we live by ad revenue on our websites, on our podcast, newsletters, all the stuff we do is all ad supported. Well, those of you who are in ad supported businesses, we were dying when COVID happened. Not literally, thank goodness. But anyway, financially we were and there we were in April, May, June and suddenly we didn't have money coming in. My employees worked their tails off and kept working and the ad revenues started coming back in July and was fully restored by about September. But they weren't going anywhere because they believed in the mission of serving our audience and they also knew how they were being treated and that they were part of the team. And this is the way we should be in business. And so there's something we were talking about the other day. You know in that slide earlier about Jack Bogle, they were talking about the four giants of the financial industry? Anybody notice who the second one was? It was Chuck Schwab. So he and Jack Bogle were to me the two great disruptors in what had been a very closed society in investing. And Chuck Schwab's a brilliant man. But Schwab, without him operating it day to day, it's lost its way a little bit. Anybody have a Schwab account? You're not going to get in trouble saying you have a Schwab account. So probably about looked like about a fourth of people have a Schwab account. What do you earn at Schwab on your idle cash in your account? Point four or five percent. Point four or five. What do you earn at Vanguard on your idle cash? Right now right around up or four is to five depending on what you have it in, five plus. The brilliant people running Schwab now decided, you know, we're going to make a lot of money on the spread. We're going to pay people, we're going to sweep their idle cash into something. We're going to pay them point four or five. Then we're going to turn around and we're going to lend it. We're going to earn five plus percent on it. And I don't know how Chuck's letting that go on. Because that's not how you treat people. It's really so easy. Treat people right. And I love capitalism. I love it. I am a free enterprise. I know my kids have grown up in these situations in school where they've been taught that capitalists are evil and dishonest and all these things. And it's not. Capitalism is great. As some of the decisions people make don't show enlightened self-interest, which is key. But enough about that stuff because now it's time to talk about fun stuff. And then we're going to go to questions. So I want to talk about travel for a second. The travel industry suddenly is starting to see softness with customers. And anybody who's traveled to Europe in the last year, you paid a lot to go to Europe and points or dollars or whatever. Now Europe's starting to soften. I looked this afternoon and for travel November through February, these fairs are from New York, but they're representative of the fairs happening around the country. Rome is now 420. Lisbon 470. Dublin 380. London 460. And this isn't just on some really terrible airline. It's on several terrible airlines like American United, Delta, Lufthansa, British Airways, Air Canada. And there are sales all over the place. And does anybody have what used to be called sky miles that are now called sky pennies? So those of you with sky pennies, Delta is really getting a lot of bad wave of publicity. So they did a sale today for people with sky miles as coach, but London starts at 34,000 points round trip from the East Coast and goes up to 59,000 on the West Coast. People have been booking it like crazy today, but if you have sky pennies, try to book this because it is such a deal. And Delta is doing a deal with Sydney, Australia from the West Coast for 80,000 sky miles round trip. Those are cheap deals. In fact, I got it from my son-in-law for 59,000 just recently on Delta. So the travel industry is going through a lot of disruption now. And so there are a lot, a lot of deals, but my main rule you heard me allude to earlier, I never, ever pick a destination. I only find a bargain, buy it, and then figure out why I'm going there. And that is absolutely the key with travel because what most people do is they pick a destination and they say, you know, I want to go on, I don't know, March 16th. And I got to come back March 23 and I got to go to Paris and it needs to be nonstop. And they're like, why is it $1,650? Because the more you narrow your options, the more you're going to pay. With travel, the more opportunistic you can be, I promise, you'll see the whole world if you just buy the deals. Now I've gone, I'm telling you, I've been to every continent repeatedly, but it's always the deal that takes me there. And so our next deal is we're going to Amsterdam for Thanksgiving week because JetBlue had Amsterdam for Thanksgiving week for 399 round trip. Now we didn't get the 399, we got 469, but I mean that's good. And so you let the bargain drive what you do. Although I won't fly Frontier. If Frontier paid me, maybe I would. They've got some customer service problems. But Spirit is compared to Frontier, Spirit's like going on, I don't know, on Singapore or something like that. Frontier is the bottom, bottom, bottom. Their CEO is really an interesting guy. Anyway, but what I do with my audience, our slogan is save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off. And what we do is we teach our audience how to take expenses in their lives and reduce them so they have money to save for their future, to live on less than what they make. And I use a number of strategies, but there are certain areas that didn't used to exist that now eat a meaningful chunk of people's life each and every month. I see so many people with their smartphones, and the really smart ones have androids, but anyway I see so many people with smartphones. What are you paying for your plan? And the reality is we were talking about this over at this table. So how many people are Verizon? Who just said visible? Are you invisible? Fifteen a month. So Verizon is having to play blocker because of all the new discounters. So Verizon has a discounter that I call invisible because they don't promote it. It's just a defensive thing where you get the same Verizon branded service, but you get it from their discounter visible that they own a hundred percent. It's just a brand name of theirs. And what you pay Verizon a hundred a month for, you pay visible 25 for unlimited everything. And each of the cell phone carriers have this. No, AT&T has cricket. T-Mobile has Metro. And so they all have these blockers that are defensive, that are geared really towards people under 35, but there's no reason any of us can't use these services. And you're on the same exact network, same towers, same everything, and these companies are owned. They're not companies. They're just brand names of each of the big ones. So there's so many things like that, like what's going on right now with streaming. I mean, the cost of streaming is going through the roof. And so we have a tool on Clark.com where you can put in your favorite channel that you like to watch. And it'll tell you what is going to cost you per month on the cheapest streaming service that'll get you that. And then you put in your second favorite channel and your third and on like that. And then you hit a point where you're like, uh-oh, it just went from 30 a month to 70 because I added this channel or that channel. And so if you learn to treat money as a precious finite resource and you learn how to squeeze every penny, every dollar, it's so easy. And so that's what we're really about, is teaching people how to take all these things in their lives and do them for less. And you don't have to do what I do, lower quality for a lower price. You can stick with good quality and still get a better price. And I'm ready. Who wants to ask the first question at the mic? Oh, just go right back there. Just go ahead. And if you don't mind, say your name and where in the country you live. Because the geographical dispersion and diversity of this group is amazing where everybody is all from. Tecan Pichai from Greenville, South Carolina. Do you have a job on an internship? I've asked that a lot, actually, when people hear about our travel and stuff. By the way, this will really surprise you. We have no turnover. Clark, thank you so much for everything you do. I wrote down the question and it is, consumer advocacy is a significant part of your work. What are some of the most pressing consumer issues people should be aware of right now? So the number one thing is people getting scammed. And the pretexting scams, who has not gotten an email or a text or a phone call from somebody pretending to be from Bank of America or Wells Fargo or Chase or Citi, or if they have cracked your identity, the exact financial institution you do business with. And we're putting people on TV who've lost massive amounts of money. And there's no getting the money back once you've been scammed by a pretext or pretending to be from your bank or your brokerage or from a financial house. Thanks. Adrienne, I used to live in Atlanta over 20 years ago and I would listen to you on Talk Radio. And since I moved, I've kind of lost touch with you so it's really good to hear you. And I'm going to pick up your podcast and start listening to them again. Thank you. Where in the country do you live now? I live in Arlington, Texas now. Austin, Texas? Arlington, which is outside of Dallas. My question, since I've listened to you in so long, I don't think 0% credit cards were out back then. But I take advantage of them now. I share them with my table there. I use them for house renovations. Our house is paid off, so I'll just take it and get the points. I don't have any credit card debt. I would be interested in hearing what you have to say about the 0% credit cards. If you're using them as a payment system and you get it paid off within the 12 months, 18 months, whatever, 24 of the zero, I have no problem with that. That's not an issue as long as it's a method of finance that you use. Like the thing that's really on our radar right now are these pay-in-fours, you know, the buy-now-pay-later.  I don't get a lot of problems about what you're doing. I'm getting tons about pay-in-four where you get to the register or you're buying something online and they say, would you like to pay this in four easy payments? And pretty much a fourth of people doing that have ruined their credit because they don't get the pay-in-four done on time. They end up in the hands of a collection agency. They end up with interest and penalty payments that they thought it was free doing the pay-in-four. But there's no give on that. In your case, you know you're getting six months, 12 months, 18, whatever it is you're getting on the 0% intro on it. So that's fine. Yeah, that's how, absolutely. I'm going to go ahead and say that's how we do it. If, like say, for example, if I'm getting a new air condition, it's $10,000, if they're going to charge me a fee to use a credit card, then we just pay cash. Right. But if I can do the 0% and get the reward and then just pay it right off, then we will just do it. Do exactly that. Do you need a new AC? Because if you do get a heat pump instead of AC. Oh. I've got to start back to listening to you. Much more economically. You can get big federal tax credits right now. I got it. I'll be back to listening to you. Hello, Clark. Hi. Where are you from? I'm Rob from Colorado Springs, and I didn't... Y'all know each other? This guy's from Colorado Springs. We actually met once a few years back. So I didn't save the easy question for you. I got a hard one. I'd like to talk about health insurance. For those who are retiring before Medicare eligibility, you know, your choices are Cobra maybe. Don't do Cobra now. Okay. Okay. That's good piece of advice. And the Affordable Health Care Act, ACA, which often leads to very narrow networks, no out-of-state coverage for those of us who like to travel. This seems like a tough nut to crack. Yeah. So what I've recommended for people who are 50 plus up to 64 is that you do an HSA-eligible high-deductible plan on healthcare.gov.  The networks in a lot of places, you're in Colorado Springs, your network's going to be much more narrow than it would be for somebody in Denver. Yes. Or somebody in Phoenix. So it's tough for you. And that's why I would look through the choices and see if you can find an HSA-eligible high-deductible that allows you the freedom to go where you want. Okay. Thank you, Clark. And by the way, for the HSA money, don't put it in some terrible savings account, HSA savings account. You can invest that money. And I don't know if there are lightning bolts in here. Fidelity is doing the best job I know of on investments for HSA money. Well. What's that? Triple tax advantage. Yeah. That's right.  It grows tax-free, and you spend it tax-free. Yep. The company I work for already chose Fidelity for HSA. Thank you. Sure. Am I in a lot of trouble that... I mentioned shock. I mentioned Fidelity. No, let me give you some trouble. Oh, sure. I'm the site administrator. I'm Lady Geek from the Philadelphia area. As soon as you said avoid Cobra, that hit an alarm bell with me. I was last year, a year before I was in the same situation. I retired, but I was not eligible. I didn't want to go on HCA for a while, so I went on Cobra. Why would I go on Cobra? It was cheaper, actually, because I work with an insurance, a medical insurance broker. They are fantastic. Not a life insurance, a medical insurance broker. They're all over the place. So it's a guy I've been dealing with for years. What he made me aware of is that...  What he told me was that the policy premiums paid by the employer are based on the average age of the workforce. So your workforce average age is like 30s. So I am like 60-something. I'm going to get 65 next month, my God. So I actually checked. He gave me the rate sheets for the Philadelphia area insurance. And I compared the rate sheets for someone 60 in the A.C. marketplace versus the Cobra cost. It was a little more than half to be on Cobra. It was a huge, huge savings. So I went on Cobra. I'm so interested in hearing that because I've not heard that before, so I appreciate the correction from you. Yeah, so be careful. First of all, yeah, because, I mean, you're dealing here. You want to give general advice, of course, but the advantage of having an insurance agent for something... I mean, it doesn't hurt to do yourself, but to have someone with that level of experience... I mean, I called him up and said... And it was like an instant answer. I said, why? So he sent me the rate sheets for his insurance, and he was right. So be careful. Just be aware that the workforce premiums are based on not on your individual age. Remember, everybody pays the same premium. What are they based on? The average age. So your premium increases with your age. So if you're like in the 60s, the A.C.A. marketplace price will be a lot more than if you were in the 30s. So you want to use this price, the lower price range. Thank you for that. Okay. Clark, thank you for what you do. I'm very upset about the Phillies beating my braves three games to one. Two years in a row. Typical Philadelphia fan giving it to me. Okay. Thanks, Clark. I do listen to your podcast, and I think you do something for us instead of something to us. And so I kind of like the consumer advocate. Richard Boyd from Lexington, South Carolina. I've run a business for 40 years, and like many people have the sky pennies, but I've collected a lot of air miles over the years that I'm really was saving for personal when it wasn't business to use. And you hear, you read the points guy, you read these folks about how you can take advantage of the best air miles award points. And so about a year ago, Forbes ran an article on the top 10 points concierge people that'll do it for you for like $200. They'll search out the best flights to Amsterdam or to London. If you're not finding the cheapest fare that's on sale, which works, and I appreciate that. But, and I used it and it was fantastic. I didn't know if you had any interest in that. You know, what they ended up telling me was are you willing to reposition because Charlotte is not a very friendly airport to use air miles and it'll cost you twice as much. But I can get you business class to Amsterdam for 52,000 miles versus out of Charlotte for 100,000 miles. And so those points concierge, I don't have the bandwidth to search. Although I think they've got award hacker now that you can do it on your own. I'm glad you mentioned that because I meant to mention that earlier and I forgot that there was a new extensive study that found that international airfares to Europe are much, much, much cheaper out of New York on average versus anywhere else, the second cheapest city to fly out of is Boston. But I can't fly out of Boston because the Patriots beat my falcons in the Super Bowl. But it is true that the departure point matters so much and we do this a lot where we go to the gateway. We're going to Australia in January and the fare out of LAX was so much cheaper than going from back east that I bought tickets on southwest to the west coast and then we're getting on Delta at LA and the savings for five of us were just unbelievably different. So yeah, the departure point gateway for international is everything whether you're using points or using dollars. The point.me was the one website was highly recommended in terms of if you wanted to book with your air miles and didn't want to have to show. Point.me. I'll check it out. I've not looked at that one. Hi, Gori from New York City. Thanks for your work in sharing your insights. So it seems a lot of Bogleheads are hardwired to be frugal meaning they didn't have to learn it they weren't taught it. It's personal preference and conversely a lot of people seem to be indiscriminately spenders in a hardwired way. What have you seen to effectively help folks transfer from the latter to the former?  And one of them worked retail the other two worked restaurants. And my son was also a lifeguard in addition to that. And then I offered each of them what we call the mommy-daddy match on a Roth IRA because a kid doesn't have to pay rent doesn't have to pay mortgage doesn't have any of the normal expenses they just blow the money. And I recommend this to anybody if you've got kids that are young or grandkids that are young that you offer them an incentive to save money that they're earning and whatever they save let's say they make $2,000 at a job and so they're eligible to do 2,000 a Roth that year. So they give me a thousand I match it with a thousand they've got 2,000 the Roth all three of my kids are totally into it and I remember my oldest daughter was a freshman in college and one of her I don't know if it was personal finance or economics or whatever and so the professor was asking the instructor was asking so what should someone do to save for the future and my daughter raised her hand and says well they should do a Roth IRA and all the other students are looking at her like you are one big loser you know what are you talking about but the point is she was a winner and she learned it and it was in her head it's got to start young the younger you can start it the better what I did with my kids when they were single digit was I'd take them with me to the supermarket and I'd show them the difference between a store brand and a brand name and you know the kids they don't care the consequence the brand name is more money and what I did with my kids was I said you know whatever money we save is you try the store brand and say the brand name I'm going to give you half the savings and so because always market incentives aligned that is it in capitalism and my kids two of them are adults now when they go shopping they are always buying store brand and my middle child loves Aldi so I really love her more than the other two and so it is something that has to be taught young now somebody later in life if they're a spender it has to be school of hard knocks you know they have to people don't change once they have habits in place until they're ready but there's one thing I recommend to people who can't ever seem to save a dollar I get them to save one cent of every dollar they make and every six months step it up another cent and in five years I'll have them at a dime of every dollar that they're saving because people don't miss it one penny at a time and it's all about building habits and routines great thank you sure hi Clark we got back to back New York City here I'm Jeremy Zuki I'm from Manhattan only for two years a bit of a personal question when I saw growing up one of the reasons that my parents got divorced was that they had a lot of resources but one of them was a big cheapskate and a proud cheapskate and the other one was not and thought we've got a lot to spend why are we going and sitting by the toilet in coach on the airline when we don't have to so I'm curious how you coach people who are in relationships to try to follow your principles but also maintain a strong bond between them I'm not a good marriage therapist but I will tell you that it really is about communication and respect for each other and you have to find the compromises so you have to find the things that work with a couple where is it that you can reach in accommodation and so on this we're going to spend less but on this we'll do it your way it has to be an ongoing conversation there's not ever one conversation about money it has to be a continuing thing and I don't know a couple alive that there's not some level of separation and how they feel about money so it's got to be communication with that couple and it can't be anybody imposing will on the other because you're going to build up so much distance and resentment in that relationship if somebody is trying to impose their beliefs on the other person and usually the stronger personality will impose but then the person who's not as strong will resent and it builds distance and that separation sure that's the purpose he wants to take a stab at that okay hi I'd like to continue the Phillies braze but I guess one of us cannot but anyway okay no let me sorry true Phillies hand but okay I'm super yeah but we're from the home of the losers Atlanta's loserville we always lose that's because Atlanta's so fun and so interesting that we always have things to do other than pay attention to whatever we're supposed to be doing alright so let me you triggered another Cobra was the first but the second as soon as you said private brands there's something that's really bugging me in grocery in the supermarkets food selection that is the private brand labels by all these super market chains in the Philadelphia area of shop right you have giant they have been creeping in and it's all about the shelf space you know how they organize know the profit more profit the promotional brands they put first and do a lot placement they are the past maybe year like these couple of chains even the higher end chains they start putting in private labels and they said they're cheaper and I think I really think they're intentionally boosting prices on the name brands and you know they want to introduce their private labels but what I've noticed is the difference between frugal and cheap I look when you look at the product quality turn look at the price but look at the ingredients like all the spaghetti so I said they all have high fructose sugar lower quality corn syrup cheaper substitutes lower quality of the product itself so it just bothers me that they're encroaching on the premium market space the shelf space to put their best and they are taking they're removing the private the commercial brand the brand name stuff so I am actively avoiding private label brands simply because the quality and I can taste the difference you I just notice it like I will I will pay like the spaghetti sauces the higher the real stuff it doesn't have sugar in it it is much better so I say the point of being above as your frugal but you need you need to spend on stuff you want not stuff you need so if you want so I want better quality food so I will buy I'm avoiding private label brand so I can buy the name brand to get what I like so so I would say in rebuttal that it is up to the retailer to have private label of a quality that people buy it they're happy with it and they buy it again when it when you buy a private label that you're happy with you win and the retailer wins the supermarket wins because they're making a higher margin on that and you're buying at a lower price and so it's not to their incentive to sell you garbage ingredients in a private label now you're looking at the labels you're seeing garbage but that is not what the industry is really trying to do generally it's just I just see them each store has their own brand encroaching on that it depends on the store and how they do it yeah yeah of course it's a balance but I'm just pointing that out because this is what I'm seeing it's a consumer area that I just don't like so do you shop at Whole Paycheck it's not in our area so people who shop at Whole Paycheck the 365 brand is really good the ingredients are solid and it takes something that's four times the cost it would be somewhere else to only two and a half times the cost of what it would be at another store and so the marketplace provides the competition and in supermarkets I would say it's not that you buy the store brand versus the brand name where you're shopping means you're shopping at the wrong supermarket if I can find what I want but I just want to bring up that point that it's bothering me and I understand it's a trade difference but if I can see the quality and I can taste the quality I'll go for that better product back to travel my name is Paul Brown I'm from Northern California my wife and I have a bucket list trip coming up because I have a four weeks sabbatical pretty excited about it and my question is to using a travel agent and again the travel agent don't typically charge they do they charge an hourly right now if you use a sophisticated travel agent you're going to be paying him or her like you pay someone for financial advice who's in this room or you pay a lawyer an accountant you're going to pay them for their expertise and a rate per hour for being knowledgeable about the destination and taking your trip really great where is it you're planning on going on this bucket list trip I'll see you in Australia in January alright and I've never been so what do you hope the agent will do for you put a package together that gives us the experience that we want so part we're going to do Australia and New Zealand and I've never been so you live in the Bay Area yeah you'll have no trouble finding someone who's got high certification is a leisure leisure agent what used to be called a CTC certified travel consultant they use a different term for it now but it's a professional designation you'll be able to find someone and ask them how many times you've been to Australia how many people have you sent to Australia and a good experienced knowledgeable agent will ask you a lot of questions about you what you enjoy doing what kind of meals you eat out how important this that or the other is they'll interview you first to make sure they're putting together the right kind of trip for you great thank you now on the other hand with my family going we have nothing planned just going to land and we just wing it so it's a different style of travel have a great time by the way hi Clark thank you for being here tonight my name is Brian I'm from Vienna Virginia right across the Potomac River since we're very close to DC I'm going to ask you this open question if you were a congressional staffer and could champion the consumer policies of your choice what would you choose and why thank you what would you mean what would I fix yes in terms of consumers I think well right now there's federal law that gives the airlines pretty much leeway to do whatever they want and I've been on a slow burn about we as taxpayers bailing out the airlines after September 11th 01 then we bailed them out again during COVID gave them billions of dollars with no responsibility to pay it back and then they treat consumers so badly I want us to have a law like they have in Europe that if they disrupt your plans they have to pay you if you don't make a connection and you're going to have to spend the night they're required to pay for your hotel if you're delayed so much time they have to pay you compensation and it has made the airlines in Europe much more honest and they run more efficient operations than we do in the United States so that's the because I travel so much you ask me self-interest if I were on transportation committee in the house that is what I would do I'd have consumer protections with teeth for people who travel thank you we just need to convince airlines of America of that we just need to convince airlines of America the airline lobbyist group they are intensely powered they are very good at what they do hi Clark I'm Frank from Maryland and I just wanted to comment on electric vehicles I believe is a big push obviously with the makers right now right rolling out the EVs and will hybrids still be around for a while hybrids are going to be around in the world and there will be quite a few sold in the United States because a lot of the US is so extremely rural that an electric only vehicle is not necessarily going to be practical till we get to a range of maybe 7,800 miles on electric vehicles not close to that yet and Toyota believes and they've been just hammered for this by environmentalists but I think Toyota is right there's going to be a big market in the world because automobiles are a worldwide market it's not just us it's not just you know any particular country they sell worldwide and there are going to be a lot of places in the world that there's not reliable electricity supplies and the rest and so I think there's going to be a continuing role of hybrids for at least a generation moving forward now I've driven an electric vehicle since 2011 I first drove a Nissan Leaf did anybody else do that what was the range on yours mine dropped to 35 miles total range after a while yours really getting 80 miles how about you wow so I now drive a Tesla that goes 344 miles on a charge so electric vehicles are so much fun to drive forget the environmental thing if you want to be environmentalist fine but they are so much more fun to drive than gas engine vehicles it's nuts how much fun they are to drive it's like a whole different thing especially if you get the plaid plus huh so I'm not getting a plaid because I have a teenage son there will be no plaid in our household if you don't know the plaid it's the world's fastest production vehicle at 1.9 seconds 0 to 60 there is one 5 million dollar car called the Rumac or something Remac that's faster oh how many of those do you have just okay Jim Dolly Sandy Utah a lot of us are pretty frugal many of us are wealthy at this point partly because we've been frugal our whole lives at what point does it make sense to not spend the time and hassle shopping for the deal because we don't need the money so something something we didn't talk about as I retired the first time I was 21 never intended to work again and I've always been just at this point wired so solidly that way that I just can't seem to let go of that but I did make a deal with my wife now I am about to blow all my credibility so if you're ready so I fly every week and I fly Southwest so I get the companion pass I've had the companion pass since 2006 and my wife flies with me free everywhere we go whenever she goes with me her fare it was not really free we have to pay 11 dollars 20 cents round trip but she's free and she hates Southwest so we we reached a deal that up to six times a year if we go international she says life flat baby and we fly business class because remember that marriage thing earlier life involves compromise and negotiation and basically whatever she says that's right but this was her deal and you know what I've discovered I was lying in one of those life flat beds in the front of the plane I think he's getting the last question you get the last question my name is Ramesh I'm from Austin, Texas no offense to Dr. Dolly what's your favorite Amy's ice cream flavor oh Amy's everything for me is about food and ice cream and if you ever go to Austin you gotta have Amy's ice cream I like the Mexican vanilla I like that yes but obviously that's not your favorite flavor so what is your favorite Amy's ice cream flavor oh the one in the Great Hills Amy's ice cream that's what I like my question is about the doctors I mean they're in Austin area these days there's a lot of advertisements about concierge services they offer $400 a year I'm fairly healthy so I don't have to worry about major expenses but what's your opinion about this concierge services they offer $24 I don't know where you're finding concierge doctors for $400 I mean usually they're about $2,000 and it's something that I think is really advisable for somebody who has a chronic medical condition or is at an age where more things may go wrong because with a good concierge doctor you get same day or next day appointment and you get visits that are typically booked at they block an hour for your time with the doctor I mean normally when you're with the doctor you're on a conveyor belt and they walk in you're already sliding down the conveyor to go out the door and with a concierge doctor it's a completely different kind of experience so if you're really healthy there's no reason to spend that money but at a certain age or with a certain condition I think it's really a great idea if you can afford to pay for the concierge doctor and they doctors are being crushed particularly primary care doctors are being crushed by the insurance industry and they are not in a position anymore to provide the care and the time to a patient that they bless you that they historically did bless you again and so for doctors they're between a rock and a hard place if you're worried about why medicine is going up so much in cost it is not the doctors and it's not even the prescription drugs it's all hospital bills and so the doctors are used to making whatever they've been making in their career and they hate having to reduce the quality of service to their patients and that's why the concierge movement has been so big and I think for the right person it's a great thing to do but if you're really really healthy wouldn't do it and he was supposed to have the last question so ask one really fast well it's a quick story if I may since you mentioned the importance of compromise and marriage two weeks before our wedding my wife and I walking in Riverside Park we saw this elderly couple before us we approached them and said we're about to get married you seem like you've been together a while do you have any guidance to share with young couple about to get married she embraced the question you're accommodating you must listen to one another two minutes I said thank you sound advice I turned to him what would you like to add sir he said these five words always do what she wants my wife loves that second one thank you very much


Hello everybody, welcome back to another mid-journey tutorial. In this one, I'm going to show you a new technique you may not be aware of, and it is fantastic. You can take either your own generated art or a piece of picture, like a picture or art of your own and add this to it and get incredible results. Very simply, I want to show you how to work with emojis. That's right, emojis work with mid-journey. It's kind of crazy. If I type in Imagine and I go ahead and let's say I just pump, I'm just going to use any old emoji.  It's going to go ahead and create some really cool stuff. While this process is, I want to show you a really cool technique, one that I actually really enjoy using because it, you know, I got a dog. So here you go. I'm going to go and grab a picture of my puppy dog, Kingston, and I'm just going to drag and drop him into the mid-journey and then hit Enter. When I do that, you'll see here, here's my puppy dog. I'm just going to right click on his face and I'm going to copy that link. Now watch this. I'm going to go Imagine and then I'm going to go Command V on a Mac, Control V on a PC or anything like that. I'm going to hit Spacebar and now I'm just going to start adding in some emojis to show you how cool this is. I'm going to add in a heart emoji and I'm going to add in a dog emoji and we'll go with that for now. Okay. Well, actually, you know, let's just go with the heart emoji because this is a really cool one. Now, while I do that and this one runs, let's look at what we got on our first one. This was just three emojis. It's a dog, it's a snowman and it's a brain and what did we get? We got this cool, cool set of images. Look at this. This cool art. Look at that. We've got a dog kind of wrapped up in a mountain with the snow coming down nice and bright. We got this guy here, this little pupper here with glasses on because obviously that's what smart means and we got this one down here.  It's got a fur coat on and it's got a scarf on because it's cold out and it looks like it's thinking. It looks like some sort of Harvard professor look. Very cool stuff. Very cool. Let's see another one here. This one here is just a heart plus my dog. Now I'm going to be honest, a couple of these missed pretty bad. This one is very terrifying. This one is extra terrifying but this one looks pretty good and this one is quite good. It's even got the white in between his eyes. So there you go. We've got an example of a puppy dog with that emoji. Now I'm going to show you a few other really good ones here. This is one that I had a bunch of.  This is the upscaled version. Beautiful. This is a really nice picture. It got the white between his eyes and the brown on each side here or the brindle between it. Wonderful stuff. Here is just two snowman. Here's what we got. Another very cool image. I don't know. This looks like it might belong to some sort of James and the Giant Peach movie or something like that but just ultra really cool stuff. This one's got a, well this one's a little weird because it's got this person stuck to this snowman monster but all this was was two snowmen and the reason why this is interesting in my personal opinion is because it allows you to access new techniques, new styles, new outcomes that you can never really, you really don't know what you're going to get. Like here's my dog and then I added in a dog emoji. So this is my dog Kingston plus the emoji and I got this sort of weird set of cross, my dog crossed with other types of dogs.  It just gave me four really cool shots of these four very different types of dogs. What do we got there? Cavalier or Charles King Spaniel. We got a Chihuahua. We got a golden retriever mix down at the bottom right there. Some really good stuff. So there you go guys. This is just really really cool stuff. Yeah and let me show you the one last one that I really, really enjoyed. Oh look at that. My boy Kingston but he's all wrapped up. Oh that makes my heart happy. One last one. I'm going to go into my finder and I'm going to grab the really, really popular girl with a pearl earring. When I did this one, this was awesome by the way. There it is. Here I just drag and dropped it in. Now I'm just going to right click on the image. I'm going to copy that link and now I'm just going to go imagine command V or control V to copy it in and now I'm just going to go ahead and add in a heart emoji. Watch what it gave me and while it runs this one I'll show you what it gave me up top here and it did a tremendous job. Where is it? Right here. Look at that. Look at this image here and this isn't even the best one. The best one up here, if I go a little further up is like it's that one's great. This one is amazing. It's a little bit of amber alertish if I'm being honest with you but I made the girl look a little younger but pretty good stuff. Here's an example. Like this gave me four really good interpretations of girl with a pearl earring. So I got to give this mad credit for that. Oh look at this. We're going to get a girl with a pearl earring holding on to a dog. All right. I'm happy. This is how I'm going to end the video. You can't get any better than that. Like I mean I don't know about you but I click on that. We got this girl. The face isn't quite where I'd want it. I would run some variations on this one but this on the bottom right is amazing. The top right is quite good. Bottom left is quite good. If this was me I would U4 and then I would V1 and I would just run that again. That's all it is. Just add emojis to your art or to your prompts. You're going to get some amazing results. Put some comments down. Let me know if you've had any luck with this. Thanks for watching.


Okay, we're back. This is Dave Vellante, and we're live here at Dell Storage Forum in Boston. We're at the convention center on the waterfront, and I'm here with my co-host for the next segment, the only other guy in the room with a tie on, John MacArthur. I'm with Wikibon.org. John is principal at Walden Technology Partners and a Wikibon major Wikibon contributor. John actually runs the Peer Insight program for Wikibon, which is our community and user practitioner program where we have these regular meetups. So John, welcome back to the Cube. Thank you. Good to see you. We were together last week at IBM Edge, you know, good event. We're here at Dell Storage Forum, second year for us at Dell Storage Forum, and the second year of the Converged Dell Storage Forum, if you will, where they brought into equal logic and compelling assets. This show to me looks a little bit bigger than last year. We have a bigger venue. I'm happy to see it's in Boston, as opposed to Orlando, because it's a lot easier for us. It is easier. Some of us anyway. And so we're talking about Dell and the transformation that Dell has been through in the last four or five years. You know, it used to be John that Dell resold other people's storage. And Dell has probably been, I would say, if not the most, one of the most aggressive acquirers of storage companies, and certainly in the last three or four years, wouldn't you say? Yeah, they definitely needed to replace some portfolio where they were OEMing from LSI. They were OEMing from or reselling EMC. They wanted to have more of their own content. So they got pretty aggressive on the acquisition side.  And then they also did a little bit of more of the IBM strategy, which is go get some technology where maybe they didn't have to pay quite so much for some technology. So by that, you mean going after Equalogic, spending a billion dollars in Equalogic? Yeah, so Equalogic was an expensive acquisition. And a billion dollar on compelling. Right. Compellent was a relative. Billion plus. Well, it was, no. Compellent was less than a billion. Was it .9, right? Yeah, .9. You know, don't quote me. So. But less than half of what they would have paid for three par. Less than half of what they paid for three par. And I think more in their wheelhouse, frankly. Yeah, that's how I tweeted this morning. I said that. So here's the thing, John. Dell's got more cash in the balance sheet than any other storage company. Okay. With the exception of Oracle. And I don't really consider Oracle a storage company. So here's the stats. Dell's got $14 billion in the balance sheet, EMC6, NetApp5, HP8, IBM12, and Oracle 30. Yeah. So Oracle, I mean, Dell can compete with anybody at the acquisition game, can it? Sure. You don't always, you know, you don't always acquire with cash. But yeah. Right. So these days, people have been acquiring with more cash deals, right? That's true. That's true. Because you're not sure of the direction of the market, I guess. But yeah, with that balance sheet, and I expect them to continue to stay aggressive on the acquisition side. When you think about, think across their portfolio, they've got the power vault line. I know you just had Brett Roscoe up. So they've got the power vault line. Is there more intellectual property that they could own there? I think they use mega-rate inside that, some of the power vault products, I think. And then, of course, equilogic and then compelent. So I guess they could go higher end. I'd be surprised if they did, because they don't really have a server line that competes with a really high end of IBM, who's been gaining share since, I guess, Oracle's acquisition of Sun, right? So I think they'll probably stay there, so be looking for more technologies where they could move more server, more disks. How about, I was in the keynote this morning, I don't know if you were at the keynote, but they were talking... Sucking traffic. They were sort of talking, hinting at converged infrastructure. We're seeing that now from certainly VBlock, HP, IBM, and Dell itself has... NetApp has got it out. NetApp has got it out. FlexPod, and Dell has got its version. I feel like Dell has to do more, or is converged infrastructure not as appealing to the sort of SMB crowd? Well, that's a good question. Converged... Anytime you can sort of simplify the acquisition process and implementation process, that's good, because it's time to revenue, time to value. On the other hand, the low end customers, sometimes they're extremely price sensitive, so it'll sometimes a little bit more of a do-it-yourself. I think one of the things that I've seen that I've been most impressed with, met with some channel partners this last year, and they're picking up more Dell services, they're doing more Dell services, and they're subcontracting with Dell to deliver Dell services, so they may be... They may write it on their own paper, they may be a subcontractor to Dell services to do implementation, and so I'm starting to see some of the Dell partners going after the SMB space to deal with the time to implement. So you're saying that could be a reseller branded offering? It can be a reseller branded offering, could be a Dell branded offering, and using more of their reseller partner site, that's been a sort of a shift to deliver services. So this is all about time to implementing technology, time to value, you know? So there's a room full of people this morning, a packed house, and a very strong channel message. Now it's interesting, right, because I think Dell, you know, direct sales, right? But now, Equalogic was a channel play, Compound was a big channel play, so you think Dell is learning from those acquisitions? I think they are learning, I think it's still a mix back a little bit, so you still hear some reseller partners who are complaining about channel conflict, but you also hear other partners who've been partnering very closely with Dell who are saying they're giving me opportunities to make margin in other ways, so they're making margin office services. Services, and maybe even networking and servers and bringing those capabilities in. I think it's probably the pure storage-only resellers that may feel it the most, you know, if they're not trying to, if they're not sort of getting on that whole portfolio play, that may be harder. What do you think is happening in the channel? There's a huge channel land grab going on, you see EMC, IBM, HP, Dell, NetApp, they're all going hard after the channel, lots of spiffs, you've seen HP do things like, say, and now recently EMC and all channel products were, you know, in case of HP, when you load those. Well, I think EMC is probably the most transformative, because they were really tough. They were like anti-channel. Right, yeah, no you can't do services, no you can't, and yes, I'm taking this deal directly, and they've really transformed over the last, I think they've really transformed over the last few years. NetApp, right, I mean, maybe that's not so much to transform, but it's done a really good job there.  So, you know. Well, presumably that's an IBM channel issue, right, not a NetApp channel issue. It becomes a NetApp channel issue, right, if you're competing with your own product with a different brand. So, what about Dell?   I think that Dell is asking partners to step up and do more, right? And so, I think that the Dell storage only, meaning, because remember, Dell didn't really have a storage channel, right? Right. So, they're bringing those into the environment. So, you bring them into a systems company portfolio, what's the systems company want you to do? Do they want you to sell just storage? It's great, because the margin's better on storage, but they may also want you to sell servers, desktops, and other things. So, for partners who want to kind of move in that direction, I think they've got a great opportunity. For partners that just want to ship storage, it may be more of a challenge. I'm going to use this as a form to learn more about that. Yeah, I mean, as you know, I work with a couple of startups that are certainly hoping that Dell messes up on the channel side on pure storage. Because they'd love to capture that compelling channel, or they'd love to capture the Equalogic channel. Yeah, you're talking about startups that could tuck in and try to mimic the Equalogic and compelling business models. And Equalogic ran great channel programs, you know. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Well, the book, certainly compelling, was just fabulous in the channel, right? They were all channel and very dedicated channels, so. Right. Okay, well we're here live. This is theCUBE. We're at Dell Storage Forum. I'm here with John MacArthur, a former IDC analyst, colleague of mine, worked very strong contributor to Wikibon, principal at Walden Technology Partners. What do you think Dell has to do at events like this? What is their primary mission to win the day? Okay, so this is a Dell Storage Forum. So one of the things that they did last year when we were down in Orlando is it was the first time they were bringing partners and customers together at the same venue. So they had reseller partners, they had their technology partners, and they had their customers all together at one venue. And you know, just as the same advice that we gave to IBM, I think we give to Dell. And they've done it here. As you said, this is a bigger event than Orlando was. Keep up the investment, you know. Make your customers understand that you do care about storage, not only as part of this integrated sort of systems play, but also as best-of-breed product. So you get the horses on the track. I mean, you know, it's like the storage business is now controlled by, I don't know, four or five leaders, right? There's EMC, there's IBM, there's HP, there's Dell, there's NetApp. Right. And then there's... And there's Hitachi at the high-end. And Hitachi. And then, although I would say Hitachi's not controlling the chessboard, you know, the way the other five are. And you could argue, yeah, I put NetApp in that list only because NetApp has got such a large share of mine. So Hitachi makes some acquisitions, and it's definitely a super credible player, but it's sort of a tweener. And then you've got... So let's put Hitachi in there, sort of 5A, slash 6. And then you've got a zillion startups out there. It feels like we're never going to see another company just rock it up and compete with the next NetApp. It looks like they get to a point and then get fired. Data domain, Isilon, you know, Compalant, Equalogic, 3par, now you're seeing all the Flash guys on a similar trajectory. I mean, don't tell all those guys... I mean, Fusion IO made it to IPO, right? And that was a pretty remarkable rocket ship there. Yeah, and they're still going.  And they've got a grand vision as a platform play. But at the same time, somebody could take them out, you know? Somebody could.  Would this be a three-power kind of bidding war data domain, kind of bidding war for Fusion IO? Maybe. I mean, who do you think it would be? Well, I mean... So it would be in the game. So to me, the Fusion IO game comes down to Fusion IO versus Intel. I mean, essentially getting application developers to write to a new memory class storage that's persistent, right? So could the five companies that we just mentioned benefit from that? You know, NetApp, not a systems company. You know, VMWare, or EMC, not a systems company, but they got VMWare, so they are, by default, a systems company. Certainly Dell, IBM, and HP as systems companies. You know, kind of regaining some of that. So yeah, I think, and you do have to think about it, the app, you know, for whom is it an application space where they need to serve it better? And for whom is it an application space where they want to get into, right? So as an expansion. So IBM obviously has a strong application developer affinity, but that's an expensive acquisition, and IBM doesn't make typically expensive acquisitions. It seems like IBM is really trying to pick up technology early in the development phase, as they did with store-wise, as they did with Dilligent. XIV. XIV was relatively early. They're paying a lot less. A fraction. Half or less of what Dell paid for Compellent, as an example, but Compellent was 10 years of maturity. Yeah, basically a third of what Compellent is. Yeah, actually, they said your number was too high. Right, we were estimating on the XIV, because it wasn't. Yeah, it was over 300, though, right? Actually, someone said, not so much, but regardless, it's nowhere near the Compellent. Let's peg it at roughly 300. Somewhere around there. It was hundreds of millions, right? Right, and as I said, Dell's got a little bit of a strategy of doing a little bit of both, buying some technologies and buying big companies. IEMC's acquisition of Xtreme I.O. was sort of- Another, we reached the Polytons, so my number was high there, too, but I was saying it was north of 400, which I think it was. But they also had a stake in the company, right? Yeah, so maybe they're backing that out? Maybe they're backing that out, and one guy that I talked to who's really bright, had a conspiracy theory that NetApp was bidding for it just to get EMC to pay more than they would otherwise have to, knowing that EMC had last look, so I don't know, I have to- Well, yeah, you heard NetApp was bidding on that, right? Right. And in fact, I had heard that NetApp put a higher bid in. Right, but maybe NetApp didn't really want it, but they just wanted EMC to pay more. So it's a head fake. This is not my thesis, it was a friend shared that thesis. Well, NetApp is NetApp's industry company. A lot of people are taking shots at NetApp right now because their growth hasn't been what it is. They are, right. But here's the thing, as we called this several times, NetApp has a very tough compare right now. You knew this was coming, and Georgians has been really trying to expand the TAM- In that period of transition. The ingenio acquisition was all about TAM expansion, and so they're taking a lot of heat right now, but NetApp is not going away. NetApp is a really solid company with a really strong channel, a great portfolio, so they're right there. And you're heading out to meet with them again? And next week they got their analyst meeting, and that's always a big highlight. So we've got a lot of questions there. I'll be interested to hear back from you, and I'll obviously watch the live stream, but I'll be interested to hear sort of how they're dealing with the ingenio acquisition, and particularly as it relates to sort of the tailing down, and these are long tails, but the tailing down of the ingenio OEM relationships with Oracle, with IBM, and also, I think, with Dell, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so we're getting the hook, John. Thanks for coming on, and I appreciate your perspectives. Keep it right there, this is theCUBE. We're right back with the Dell Storage Forum 12 with our next guest.