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The DL debate with Sister Sarah's Laddercanny, serving food you'll love till 9pm daily in Sarah's kitchen And there's free admission entertainment every weekend Welcome, welcome, one and all to the DL debate, thanks so much for tuning in I'm here with the main man Joe Dex as ever, keeping an eye on me Joe thanks for being here and producing the show I want to thank of course Donna Marie for the news and the legendary Ivan Borden and the Power Hour Plus, what a guy Folks listen, thanks so much for tuning in, I said every week and of course I sincerely mean it And I've been getting a lot of feedback lately, people coming up saying they enjoy the show and that It's great to get the reactions, brilliant reaction to Jim's interview last week in particular You know a lot of papers carried it and a lot of Donaigal people and people outside the county loved it Great to hear Jim, you know his honest views on the future of Donaigal And he certainly looks like things are going the right direction, judging by yesterday Absolutely blue, the man of cork away on a blustery day with a lot of players missing as well Shortly we're going to hear from Donaigal legend Michael Higley and Donaigal News Top GA correspondent in sports editor Ryan Ferry, they're going to give us their views On that Donaigal game and of course discuss the current GA topics making the news As Ulster reigned supreme in yesterday's league, 8-1s in one draw And even the draw to be honest for Manna, way to meet, that was a decent performance by for Manna Coming up from division 3, so yeah just to show you the strength Us Ulster boys are putting out around the country and always able to deal with this and long May continue into the championship, after the lads I'll be speaking with regular correspondent Maureen O'Donnell After she was at the Donaigal defeat to Glearn, the division 2 encounter And wrapping up the show, I'm going to speak with Harlem boss Mickey McCann As division 2B gets up and running next week, Donaigal are away to Wicklow That's all coming up in the show, but as I say earlier today I caught up with Ryan and Michael to discuss all the GA of the weekend Yes folks, former county great himself Michael Higley and Ryan Ferry Of the Donaigal News, The Fountain of Knowledge So we have the sheep farmer and the press man here today And that right lads, how are you getting on? All good Brandon Higgs, listen that's the word there, you're making a packet out of these sheep pie Is that the truth? That's right, the other one is good, the one is good right there Keep you warm in the winter anyway Higgs, Ryan, yesterday what was to be made? I'm trying to sum up this Donaigal performance You know, particularly losing Ash and Gallon before the game Ash and Gallon said to me, where's the points going to come from? And you ended up kind of saying they're going to come from everywhere What's the dead Ryan 12 scores? What do you take out of it in terms of Donaigal's performance And then were you a bit disappointed with Cork particularly second half? Ah yeah, I think you were definitely disappointed in Cork's performance Like I know they're traditionally not good travellers But even in the build up to the division 2 You know they're listening to different podcasts And seeing newspapers and that and people tipping who might go well And pretty much everybody is tipping Cork to be in this promotion honk like And you know for a team that would be considered to be right up there I thought they were well off to pace to be honest But I thought Donaigal were very impressive at the same time Even giving away a couple of sloppy goals But you know they kicked 12 points in the first half Some fantastic scores You know and probably looking back to it against Derry last week In the McKenna Cup final You know we had a sizable win with us in the second half And you know the shot selection was quite poor And probably in fairness maybe all those shots in the first half yesterday Maybe weren't all the percentage shots either But the players took them on and they were flying over the bar As you said 12 different scores and it was really impressive And I thought they played a very smart type of football in the second half They kept hold of the ball Ran the hard lines got the freeze And put them over the bar So definitely a very very strong start to the league And it's important that we win the home games It's important that we're getting back to making McCool Park a fortress So definitely a good day out I would say Yeah totally agree Just about Cork and even from the time that me and you would have played They always seem to be a team exit you like to play against You know in fairness I suppose you have to say they always try to play football But see in the modern game now being kind of a bit ruthless And that they still look like a team that are easy to play against That's never seems to have gone away They never seem to have stepped under that next modern type of game That's right Breton I suppose Jan was probably delighted to get a Southern team early on in the league Especially coming to Barbara Faye Conditions were bad you know heavy field Cork they're still a bit of a more traditional team of playing football And I suppose the Northern counties would have Probably put a lot more into the McKenna Cup I suppose Cork and Kerry they didn't bother much about Their locals run around down a monster Where I suppose all the teams in Ulster You know were very competitive in the McKenna Cup And probably are a step or two ahead at the minute And I suppose coming down with Cork traveling up And trying to do a lot of kicking And maybe passing 50-50 balls into a crowded defence It was easy for Dany Gald to mop up and counter attack So I suppose there was only one winner from early on And it looked like after especially three or four minutes into the second half The game was nearly over Yeah and I exactly pulled out the line at halftime about McNeff No one knows how to play under the breeze like Dany Gald Because everybody said halftime is six points going to be enough And I was like it's not like for like you know I kind of thought we would play well under the breeze I didn't expect us to play that well now But you know that's always was the way with us We were good playing under the breeze Yeah that's right and I suppose Cork got demoralised then As the game went on and really petered out by a big time But I don't think Cork have as much done They played Kerry in that McGrath Cup game But it was kind of open football and both teams probably You know we loved watching that game And maybe thank God for the likes of Dublin and Kerry and Mayo And got away to the over the last lucky years They kept football alive to a certain degree But this time of year January, February and maybe March It's really it's really derailed stuff You know men behind the ball and sluggish and slow And you know unless you're keeping ball well And you're well organised you're going to find it very difficult Yeah and Ryan just looking to make all squad Last week against Derry you got the feeling You know we're missing those boys and that's really hard as We're also we're missing in yesterday Obviously Oshin Coffey before the game Outlet starting 15 and of course Oshin Gallin You know we had that obviously Lankan McGee Nellie Donnan McCalligan players they got not there yesterday I mean there's a whole raft of people to come back in Of course Owen Bam was back moving well yesterday So you know there's a get all those players fit And there's going to be serious pressure For a starting berth in the first 15 Yeah there definitely is But I suppose the big part of that Brandon Is getting them fit and you know The way that don't think all teams are going to play You know when it looks at it it's going to take Huge legs huge energy You know you're going to have to be very fit to play in it So if you're struggling along the way And you can't quite get the full training in and stuff You're probably going to struggle about to get up to the level And I suppose you know you do look at it A lot of the teams this weekend were missing players Probably the big exception being Derry Who for whatever reason seem to be able Nearly to put out their strongest team every day For the last three seasons You know their great durability to their players Whatever it is and you know as you say There are a lot of different options for Donny Gull If you have everybody there and we would love To be in a situation to see everybody there And see how things would line up then Would Cairn Moore still be in midfield Or would he be half back or half forward You know there would be you know A different way to tweak that could come along You know we're going to need Austin Gallin foot To know the team cooked well yesterday And other fellas stepped up but you know He has that score and power And Niall Donald's a big one as well Bren like if you can get Niall Donald back into that Because he's definitely got the talent To give us something different in the forward line as well But yeah like a lot of people missing the game You know you probably could have put out a 15 yesterday Bren or fellas in the panel That didn't play either between injuries Or being on the bench that would have given The 15 that started a good game You know so you know Sean Patton And another man that didn't feature yesterday Through suspension so yeah I suppose the big thing is that everybody Is committed this year Probably with maybe the other player That he would have wanted maybe is Ethan O'Donnell he's headed away on his travels But it's definitely a strong panel And you know you're really going to have to Earn your spot on the team Which is great and that should You know suppose more accountability on the pitch You know if you're not doing it Maybe you won't get the jersey If you can't get on the training field And getting the hard yards done Maybe you won't get an either So you know it definitely leaves the panel In a good place Yeah that's most lesson if you don't make the team Round as we know you need players coming on That are going to affect the game greatly You nearly need players that are very much touching Go of making it or not making it They come on and they give you a huge 20 minutes or whatever Brian just mentioned their player stepping up You know obviously one of them was Was your clubmate Patton and Bertie No one would know him better than yourself How important is this season for him Michael you know last season That terrible injury and he was captain And you know you can see Like he's heart and soul done he go all You know he led the line yesterday In his interest with Oshie not being there He took some of the freeze that would be more A right for the kicker and of course He's a forward you know he ended up with 1-6 No gives you a great lift I'm just wondering the way that panned out Yesterday for him Michael And how important this season is Going on being captain that He's in that type of form to lead the line Yeah you're right I suppose Being captainised there's always Extra pressure on and I suppose Murphy when he was captain He led the line and led the team And I suppose there's Probably fees of pressure on him now To do something similar I suppose last year it was Stop, start, stop, start and it never Really got up on one end so I'm sure He's just absolutely delighted there He played well yesterday The team played well yesterday You know he's captain of the team And he led the line and I suppose That the team gave him the support He played so well you know It's pressure off him and I'm delighted For him he's put in a massive effort Getting back to where he's At the minute from the injury So and hopefully You know it's good too that they're in Division 2 you know they're going to find A lot of easy victories going forward now In the next couple weeks and it'll build Good momentum for training and listen As long as you're winning it helps So now I'm delighted for him And listen there's A big array of players there Numbers wise so Pushing for places it's going to make it More competitive and it's going to make it Hard to get on the team and that's going to help everybody Yeah and I have to mention of course He's a little bit Ryan McHugh, he was Absolutely flying yesterday and of course Like Juva Special Even more interest in these guys Inusual taking over at Kilkiar It must have been great to see those Back boys flying again after last season Yeah definitely There's a good hunger there Ryan played exceptionally well yesterday And there's a good hunger there and when you see All the other players playing And you always want the best players in the county Playing for you at the county and Playing along with each other and You know that gives great You know belief too you know so No no it definitely is very good And it's good to see it Because before you know I suppose Was the split season the championship Is not too far away and it doesn't be long And I suppose after week two or three Everybody all the managers Especially will want teams to be Up to speed on Where they need to be at you know so And I suppose if anybody Does pick up injuries Could rule them out for a year Just because of missing You know five six weeks With this compact season You know Yeah certainly Ryan you mentioned something very interesting And no injuries do you think There's something in that around I suppose the training Versus the medical care versus the rest Or you just think it's one of those Anomalies because You know what I'm just thinking as you're saying there Like they just never seem to have Injuries and like we have a raft of them At the minute do you think that's just One of those things or do you think there's something About how they're training I think it probably has to be Just their players and the makeup of their Players better because you know like looking at You know like I watched go away and mail This morning like you know You'd hardly recognize half of the go away players They're missing a lot of play a lot of ones Mail are you know doubling Had a lot of fellas out injured the last The two Cliffords didn't play for Kerry You know so like I think maybe it's as maybe just As more of them you know and that's Why I'm probably surprised That they're through the Glen boys and straight away Because you know I I don't know if they can afford really to To lose too many players you know But Like you know when you look through it Down over the last couple of years They haven't lost too many players To injury is that good fortune Is that just the makeup of their players Is that their training Load you know like I don't know like you know I suppose Looking at our own Players here and all you know some of them have been Carry injuries and after the club Season and you know maybe Maybe with this split season and the way It goes in and end the club you know Maybe there isn't really that time To get the recovery in if you Have a wee knock and maybe this is the only time Of the year where you really get it You know when maybe these early Couple of league games are maybe Not hugely important in the grand scheme Of the season so I don't know If it's I think it maybe Is just maybe more of a dairy thing That they're just able to keep to get All their players on the pitch On a Where do you stand on the Glen issue I mean when I seen hearts comments about You know we're leaving the door open We'd love to see them that was like Come on you joking me particularly If it was one season I still wouldn't want them there But the fact that they were in the club final last season They go there and send me And then they're heading to Of all games and away game to carry I thought I must have caught them They wanted me to get down on that bus But there they were I just wonder we had this conversation With Parkinson and Aaron Kernan Last week they reckon it wouldn't Effect them and I just can't see how You go through tough enough league Tough All-Star and In the group stages championship How you can just keep on You've got to love the game to play it You've got to really want it and I'm just Wondering how can that keep going Particularly for those Glen players Yeah and like you know it's not just This season for those boys Like you know last season they got To the All-Ireland club final You know the season before There were no sort of semi-finals So they were into the depths of November As well like you know Now I know maybe some of the Like I don't think Conor Glass played too much Maybe the first couple of rounds in Derry You know but I think that's That's the only a couple of weeks break And you know you're probably doing You know during that period Like it just it must be just so intense On them you know all the time Like you know the information that they Would have been getting in the lead-up to playing Kilmer Codd and the lead-up to playing Scorstown and you know in the lead-up To the All-Ireland final and you know Maybe the trading itself You know maybe there were fine tuning Things in those last couple of weeks But it's still you know even just Psychologically on you know the pressure Going into those games I just don't see why they couldn't be Given another couple of weeks like you know But I don't understand Mickey Hart maybe wanting to Make a statement in In the early stages of it But you know it's a long season You know and I don't know I suppose You know you look back to the All-Ireland Semifinal between Keri and Derry last year and You know it was Keri funny stronger In that game than Derry And maybe it's too simplistic To say that the Derry boys burned out But you know you just And I know they're finely tuned animals And all that Brent But you know at the end of the day I think you got to prioritize competitions And you know I was listening to yourself And the boys on smaller fishing You know I think they were maybe Given the league a bit too much Importance in the grand scheme of things Because come April and May You know I don't think anybody's You know at the one day of January Yeah yeah and You just I think Hart you're right It's a big statement from when we come in There was a lot of obviously all the Nonsense that went around it and over And back and I think I think what he's doing is very much saying Right boys we're without saying it We're going for All-Ireland okay Obviously Semifinal back-to-back alters That's the only thing he can really be Planning for and it's almost like he's putting a message across a group We're all in we're all in Look at the you know that Dexter Game member in the group stages The championship the team is a Dexter game And then play the Fallen Week And they all were beat and seem to go out With a wee bit of a want-burn You know you were thrown against Kerry you know you're looking at the games Going on even Donny go all that day I think when you play week on week And that and try to do championship It definitely burns you out but listen That'll be mainly seen maybe the previous wrong Like the Monaghan men who continually I mean it was a phenomenal weekend for Ooster teams and Higgs right Across the board you know we ate ones One drawn even the draw for Manawari Meath was decent you know What a start for Oster just shows you That where Oster football is I mean it's completely Taken over in terms of A province out in its own Yeah The Monaghan game and Dublin game That was a cracker game absolutely Fabulous game a great result For Monaghan But I suppose again I suppose come back even This question is asked all the time About the Oster Championship and probably Reflects again what I was just saying About the McKenna cup No county wants to kind of lose to another county And I suppose they're just a way ahead For them first couple of weeks By being so competitive in that McKenna cup And I suppose I think all the Oster counties had a great Result over the weekend because of it There's a step or two ahead of the rest The ones at the minute you know but No no you have to great credit The likes of Monaghan that Regardless what the number of Clubs or players are picking from They're able to produce Fabulous footballers In an old round you were listening to this smaller fashion You'd have heard the three of us tap Monaghan to go down That was like they're not like Monaghan They're the greatest county in Ireland For proving that everybody wrong They just continually do it It's unreal stuff Just looking at that In terms of the strength of Oster teams Now And Jim mentioned it the last day When I talked to him and we're just talking I mean it ties into the whole art situation Now as Oster is on the up and up And literally now as everybody gets better There's no easy games in there I know there's a couple of counties in there Pretty much it's very hard for them They beat maybe the top five But really there's five, six Seven teams in there They'll all think they'll give each other a game How does that fuck then go into the group stage As compared to your other provinces That can slide A final Or slide into the group stage That Jim said Well I suppose It's hard to gauge on it Like Those winning Oster gave you more momentum With it Does it lift the county Does it bring extra people on board To have that big day out in Clonus If you can get it You know There's only so many competitions you can win Like I suppose There's probably enough time In the season to push hard to win Oster And then recover And time to go again for the group stages Like If you looked at it last year In most of the groups There was nearly an odd team out in there That we're always going to struggle There's probably not 16 Strong teams In the country That can compete for the San McGuire There's probably always a good chance That you're going to get somebody within your group That you're going to beat Then maybe another one That it can help you along It's hard to know We haven't seen enough of it Well teams have learned different lessons And approach Well teams think now We can sack off the Oster championship We'll prefer to get a couple of a four week block Heading into the All Ireland series You know It's hard to judge But I think definitely It seems from Your interview With Jim last week Like it's all anybody's talking about this week You got the big one You know He definitely Was pressing hard The importance of the Allster championship And I think supporters in the county Would probably be happy to hear that Like you know I think it's I know you can look at it That it's a new round robin And it's a different structure But I think You've got a very hard route in it I think if they could get a good run And the Allster championship I think it would help things along for our county anyway Yeah, yeah, certainly You played a bit of fly keeper At Calcare there last year I think Mark was in a couple of times in that And where do you stand on the goalkeeper issue? It's such a massive part Of the game now We got caught out there in the second half Yesterday for a goal After we had hit the first three points The second half, Kenny got them wiped out The goal almost got his hands to it But we ended up with a wee bit of egg in their face But I suppose if you want a game You've got to learn things like that Where do you stand on the fly keeper Situation there and how people are Adapting to that, Michael? Yeah, I suppose The county I suppose county-wise The goalkeepers in general There have been more and more braver Coming out of the field And they're trying to bring it on themselves You know, I suppose it depends On the goalie himself Some goalkeepers Are just so more comfortable on the ball So I suppose Tarone Their goalie he plays Outfield for the club-wise But then, if you go back The best goalkeeper probably For the last maybe 10, 15 years And most successful county team Has been doubling and The production hasn't gone past much The 21-yard line so I suppose it depends on the team But definitely they're trying to Get the goalie to come out like Monan With Begg in there He's been very good coming out and kicking points And free kicks and whatnot And he's bringing more to the game all the time But I don't think it's going to be The one and losing of the game For the goalie comes out and kicks a score Not and helps out But it definitely is an extra Bow to the string For a lot of teams The defenders are not there But if you get caught out I suppose it looks very bad then But I suppose each county will Work what they have to hand And try and use their own strength But it's definitely The game is changing all the time It's been nice things back in the day To get in around the back of the defender And nobody on the net They practically would get a goal like that I must admit, remember what you say About the defenders coming up and getting a new speed I mean, that line's well gone now I mean, McCool comes striding up and banged one Over the bat in the first half And I was like, you know, the keeper himself Is up, there's no more Nobody can have any nosebleeds anymore Where do you stand in that line? You know, in the first half there I thought at the time that Mulroney last position He obviously first came in and he's obviously It's a tactic we're using But it's a wet day and just his position At that time, like we had five or six defenders Behind him and, you know, in the modern game I'm just wondering why there needs to be Sometimes man out, it can get the kind of thing Where you haven't seen it be launched In terms of a team set in the 45 And you're trying to get an overload I can get it at that point, but if you're out In the round, the pitch You don't want to spare players there Anyway, I don't see the need for the keeper To be out at that point, or what's your view? Yeah, well, particularly Particularly the one in the second half Where you were caught to go Like, will we Eight or nine points up at that time? Like, you wonder what's In terms of game management Like When you're ever going to pull it back on points Alone, like you wonder what was the need And I know like I'm not blaming Gavin Mulroney Because that's what he's probably been told to do Is come out and play But you just wonder, is there any need Just lock it down at that stage You know, they're going to have to push forward There's still going to be spaces for players Do you really need your goalkeeper out In that situation It's an interest Particularly the kick out We were caught last week Against Derry Right at the end of the match And they got through for a point when there really could have been a goal And you're looking at it yesterday With the kick out You're leaving Brian Hurley Alone by himself inside The 45 meter line And Brian Hurley has been a Top class forward for 10 years And you know, if they Happen to go long The break falls nicely And the ball's away I suppose maybe yesterday In the first half it was going to be caught in the wind But in the summertime When maybe the conditions are a bit better Is it going to be Is there too much risk involved Like you know, I suppose that's the Question we're seeing a lot of Goalkeepers are doing it But I think we're going to find later in the year That's going to be a higher press Fuller out the field And I think maybe Donningall might be leading the chase on that one You know, I think you're going to Like these teams, like Derry And RMR are very comfortable If you set off them And I think teams are going to push Going to start to push fuller out the field And we'll see what happens then But it's an interest And you know, it's the way it evolves Like if you think back to McGinnis' first time In charge and you know, the conceding Of kickouts against Dublin That day in 2011 Which kind of shocked everybody And now it's gone full circle Where you know, you're leaving one of The most dangerous forwards and monster Hanging inside by himself On your own kickout or on their kickout You know, so It's definitely evolved a lot And it's going to be interesting To see how it plays out But yeah, I suppose Looking at it, I would just query Maybe when you're 8 or 9 points up Is there any need to be doing it Yeah, let's now agree This league is for learning And that's a big thing The pace that we played The game at yesterday The tackling intensity There's a real togetherness there You can see Jim and his team He could name so many players And we have to particularly Owned already in the first half But literally, there was Right in performance right across me And certainly built this hand up For a position as well And if you look at now with the four home games Of course you're calving away next week Our man might only beat Lois by a point We'll go up to our man And expect to beat them Because I don't think there's no point In why we can't go in one of these games And go up as champions Is that what you're feeling would be? Yeah, definitely And that's what we're going to do Now with these Because McGinnis is training there At the minute, it's full on Like there's no holding back Every training session seems to be a Championship match And he brings that And he's everybody on board And everybody wants to be playing So he's coming to these games At 100 miles an hour And going back To what you're saying They're in the cornerbacks Their scores coming from everywhere And they're playing with confidence And I think They're definitely Crews in Division 2 And they're in a great position And they'll get stronger and stronger As it goes on, you know So no, they're in a great position Definitely so They are indeed in Kulkaran In a great position too Because they have the main man Higgs Down about to our new O'Donnell We'll have a couple of shoulders Along the sideline maybe We'll get the crack You enjoy it Good man, looking forward to it Let's make a fair play, thanks for joining us And as ever lads That was a great chat, thanks for wrapping everything up for me weekend Yes lads Thanks for that, appreciate it We have a break coming up now And then I'll speak with Maureen O'Donnell The DL debate with sister Sarah's Laddercanny Serving food you'll love till 9pm daily In Sarah's Kitchen And there's free admission entertainment Every weekend So he was like Messaging me all night and then he just Ghosted me He was like you're so hot I want to come over And I was like cool And he was like I'm on my way Draving over right now And then That's what I'm doing Phone use while driving can be deadly Your phone, it won't kill you to put it away From the Road Safety Authority Visit rsa.ie Faster Subject to location and availability Minimum 18 month contract Activation fees and annual price increase of CPI Plus 3% applies See imagine DLIE for full terms and conditions The DL debate with sister Sarah's Laddercanny Serving food you'll love till 9pm daily In Sarah's Kitchen And there's free admission entertainment Every weekend Yes welcome back again And we're going to talk to regular contributor Maureen O'Donnell Moe how are you this evening Are you hearing me I've got you on Can you hear me? Moe there you are That was me how you doing I was just looking at you there and I forgot That I had to twiddle some knobs there to get things going What's happening Not a lot now how you just letting Listening to the debate and the man there Very very good now very a lot of interesting points Good lads how you good lads Moe tell me you were at the Kildare game After a good factor away from home Kildare what Dunder media champions Of course coming way away but a buzz behind them They won their opening game as well Moe what did you make of the fair Yeah well Kildare certainly did bring it To DL Park history you know But listen in fairness to the ladies Like the Dunnig Allgirls They held off well You know you could sum it up by saying Amy Boyd Carr scored a Fantastic she had a really good game history She scored a fantastic point With ten minutes remaining the second half And that left score sort of even But you know after that Shannon McLaughlin unfortunately Just kind of the sunburn Maybe too many cynical fouls And you know they capitalised On that and their only real Goal chance of the game came You know three minutes later it was only Seven minutes remaining Brendan And you know they capitalised on that And look one of their top Fowards Totally got on the ball That's real she's exceptional And goal now she's this her second year On there Brendan and to be fair to her She pulled off an exceptional save So much so that you know Dunnigall players Were nearly going wow what a save you know But maybe to their detriment because Seconds later you know that is forward Roshan Burns she scored one five Yesterday which is overall more than What Dunnigall had on the board at the End of the game she put it in the Back of the net and really they got One more score after that which left Back into it after that so listen Killed airs fantastic output they won The division three final last year So up into the division Two football you know they're taking No prisoners they're certainly looking To get into the final and with Two teams in division Two being promoted this year Brendan into division one you know It's a big advantage for a lot of teams So listen Diana Hora is Is that the hell I'm there you know She's a legendary ex-mail player And she's been in there now a few years And she's done a great job with that team And they seem to have a lot of respect for her And she's got the players and building The team Brendan and like they're looking To get promoted this year I definitely think so But listen Dunnigall's on with a chance there too But they just they have no real room For air going forward now Where do you think the promotion lies Would it be something John coming in First year we know he's a top coach We keep talking about you know there is A new team needs to be built there Would he be happy enough Having a good league campaign And working towards the championship Or do you think he would like to get promoted Listen obviously it's You know everybody every manager's Dream gun on there you know is maybe To get some silverware behind them Of course everybody wants to get back Dunnigall want to get back to top Light football you know I spoke a lot last year about the Dunnigall men and the transition That they're going through and nobody Is going to come on there now Jim's on there And I mean the whole county's behind Them and it's fantastic and he's done A lot of work with them and you know You didn't know this time last year how it was Going to go and this year obviously As you say they're aiming for an Ulster title which is fantastic because Everybody in the county's behind them no more So than the women you know the women are They're relegated had probably one of Their worst years in division one last Year down now in division two They too have lost a wealth of With you know I could name eight maybe girls That have gone from the panel And John McNulty's on there now and He's taking a body of players together He's trialled a lot of players throughout the county There's a lot of young girls in there Minor girls in there some girls have Come back into the flow that have been A few years previous this and you're Still left with a good few you know Experienced heads there to bring it Forward like Suzanne White, Katie Herne, Nate McLaughlin, you know Claire Freel and Nets is solid You know why wouldn't he be setting these Sites on trying to get back The top flight football in division one Especially this year when there's two Places available and division one With two of the top teams Will be in relegation you know At the end of the season so it's A massive opportunity for them to get Back up there and but listen It's very very difficult for them to Get out of division two nobody Wants to be relegated to division Three because you know you're nearly Trying to get back to division one So their aim would be at least to come Maybe third in the table If not getting into second place Or first place a place in the final Whether they won the division two final Or not it's a day out in Crow Park Everybody also wants to get there You know all of the supporters You know you're talking about Jim Getting back to Ulster you want To get back to willing form so Of course he's coming on there and He's got an awful lot to do As a platform maybe to try new players But also at the end of knowing that You know you can't make the mistakes of last year And maybe lose games earlier on In the league it's crucial To get them ones under your belt now Brendan at this stage. Yeah you mentioned Ulster I suppose you have Monaghan And Kevin in size to get in there And that building process That has to happen and I suppose rushing burn Is there a thing more about that We keep talking about Markey forwards Over the last number of years you could guarantee Every time open the paper that They've scored the majority is that One of the big things now that John has On the earth and if you haven't you have to Tactically be ready for that to have That forward that's going to do what The likes of rushing burn did because she was obviously The difference between the two teams Yeah and you know Listen I've had conversations Since that you know and You'll see now with the ladies that They're very much in this adoptive They've adopted this defensive style Of play like the McGuinness Era you know and It's faltered into the ladies a few years You know back but It's still there and it was very evident Yesterday between both sides you know They're both sides are attacking Passages of play you know we're Met with maybe 13 and 14 players Behind the ball and then you have this key Forward like you know Jeremy McLaughlin Or you know Yvonne Bonner Or as you say rushing burn Like as a defensive player You know you're trying to get back in the shape And why you do give somebody a man mark And roll they're also Trying to get back behind the 45 And get into shape while also trying to look After this player but you know I think it's up to management And to these to sit down And maybe look you know There's a lot about let's not Worry about them let them Worry about us but you do have to do Your homework when like rushing Burn won the TG car Intermediate player the year last year She didn't get that you know for nothing She's a fantastic player She scored 1-4 last week When they went away to play in Monaghan She scored 1-5 this week you know So you know and some of them are coming for free But she's still doing a lot of damage Teams that killed air are looking to get her on the ball Her and Nasa Dali So those are the two players that you need to cut out And you need to cut the supply chain maybe into those players So it's about looking at that The defensive style of football You need to pick yourself maybe a player Who's got good man marking abilities And say that's your role for the game You know going forward But yeah you're certainly seeing the ladies game There are a lot of key forwards Within all of the teams We've seen the last year in division one They're getting big scores on their belt You know so maybe we need to adapt The game a little bit more maybe to look after Those kind of players and maybe From a done it all perspective Going out and going forward Was this to say don't we all need to win all the games now Brendan Yeah Do you have another game at home where I suppose The back of the league Back-to-back home games down in Monaghan Where we're away in Monaghan And home to Turon And then two away games at the end Does that make the league a bit different In terms of where the fixtures are laid out I don't really know how it is for that But yeah listen You want to win your home games anyway From a done it all perspective It's great that they're coming this early on In the season they've got Westmeath Next week no strangers to Westmeath I suppose the only thing going into the game is You know done it all can come from the fact That they have sort of maybe Come out in the positive end of those games In the past but like Westmeath are a good side They're a very fast pace They're very fast on the counter attack Maybe they just lack that ability To get the ball over the bar And serious problems and that as well You know to say a few more Fours come on but yeah Two home games at the end of the league Brendan you know just It does make it more difficult for Donegal to try And get the they need to get these ones Under their belt because as they say Going forward they need all the points they can get Now but they will be tough matches Come at the end of the league campaign And you know It's not just Donegal fighting They get up like every other team And division two like Like Monahan and Drone They're trying to get up too as well And we better talk about fixtures And when games are on and that Beale Noctem is allowing me on Saturday night Just about the amalgamation I think the quicker that happens the better You know and listen For years they were going to watch yourself and Maria And I used to love the ladies game I'm just looking at some of the other score lines Coming out there you know from previous games And that like they really are They're not going to entice people in We need to give them something good I mean there's not like exciting games With loads of scores and at the minute It seems like teams have got their defensive shape right But it's the other end of the pitch That I suppose the counter attack We've seen that evolution in all games I'm sure it will turn over at the minute Those score lines would make you think That wasn't maybe the greatest Spectacle to be at Yeah we'll listen You make an interesting point On the men's game like over the last Number of years maybe the last decade You've seen this defensive football And at the start it was very much Everybody behind the ball Break it forward try and get the forwards in the game You've seen 12 different scores Yesterday so everybody now Is a back and a forward At the same time So what you would like to see in terms of the ladies game Now is to develop more Shooting forwards even as backs So you want backs and training Shooting shooting shooting the more chances You take the more scores you take The more chances you have a button You know points on the board So if you're going to play this defensive style Of football like you've seen Shannon McLaughlin She was up probably on the 21 year line And she scored a beautiful point And her playing a corner back Supposedly yesterday But that's what you need If you're going to have a team Attacking and force You want everybody that's up To make these shots And at the minute Need to get more scores on the board And it's probably been a pattern For the last number of years Where they've sort of locked or relied On the likes of Vaughan Boehner Maybe Neve Higgarday and Charlie McLaughlin To try and get these scores But you really have to have backs Attacking half backs now Are supposed to be And maybe a skillful at taking shots As any forward was Should be able to shoot And I would like to see that coming more Into the ladies game now as well And it would make it more exciting As for the double header sprint Like it's an ongoing issue The biggest problem is that the two bodies Are very separate at the minute And perhaps it's a money issue Because when the ladies go on To the JAA Ladies probably wouldn't fill Out stadiums the way men would fill it out But the option around that Is to wait to promote the ladies game More to get more and more people seeing it Because it is a fantastic game as you said Is to have those double headers Like Donegal were playing it The men were playing a quarter to two yesterday In Balbafay The ladies were playing a 12 That game had been taken back to 12 In the hopes that there would have been A double header and it ended up there wasn't And the two The senior men and the senior ladies Aren't at home to very much later on Really a missed opportunity But you've seen the same happening With the men's teams The men's teams And the men playing in the Sunday You want to get more people watching The ladies game You want to have those double headers Do you think that is a potential future Having the ladies And the men playing the same venue At the same day Absolutely If you put the LJFA under the JAA You know And we've had many discussions With people like yesterday that said That it wouldn't possibly get to the two games And there would be a lot of people that would Want to go to the two games and support the two games And the one venue under the one price So whatever ticket price was For the men's game yesterday Maybe putting allowance on there Or maybe up the ticket by five years or so That you're going to have two quality Top games And the senior national football league What your ladies playing first And then your men playing So it's a one-one really In terms of promoting the ladies game Because there's an awful lot of people that are Going to the men's game That actually wouldn't have watched the ladies game When they start watching the ladies game Then they see the quality of play Maybe in their head They have this idea that listening to women Just aren't as good as the men The quality of play isn't as good It's not as skillful It's not as much and a very exciting game Because sometimes there can be a hell of a lot more scores And it's way less than the men's game as well So you know I just have to ask Maria about that To always tell me never mind She was the fallback as a fall forward In the garden and she made Whatever skill I had made it happen That's her line Well thanks for joining us as ever We'll be chatting as the season goes on Yeah absolutely Renda Much appreciated folks The DL debate with sister Sarah's Laddercanny Serving food you'll love till 9pm daily In Sarah's kitchen And there's free admission entertainment Every weekend What if someone in the house has medical equipment That uses electricity What if my mum has mobility problems And needs to charge her electric walker Everyone's concerned about rising energy bills Some more than others But there could be circumstances That classify you as a vulnerable customer Just check with your supplier And be sure to register Talk to your supplier Or find out more at cru.ie Here to shed light on your energy rights Brought to you by the commission For regulation of utilities The world is getting a little more More But maybe more could mean something else More means more proactive green energy solutions More means more wind turbines And more recycling More means more biodiversity More means more energy storage More means more hydrogen And more solar farms Because more clean energy Means more efficient living Means more thriving communities Means more energy autonomy That's why we're more than Mona Learn more at morethanmona.ai The DL debate with sister Sarah's Laddercanny Serving food you'll love till 9pm daily In Sarah's kitchen And there's free admission entertainment Welcome back folks Just wrapping up the show We're going to look ahead to division 2B And Donny Gull are back and competing And of course Mickey McCann is Integra's let He is their manager Mickey you're giving it another big push We're going to give it One more rattle to see how we get on here You know so We've got a pre-season under our belt So business end starts now really On Sunday to see where you're really at That's Mickey following on from last year Tell me Wicklow away always a Tight ding dunger Where they start the campaign off I suppose away from holding people off And look at that in terms of Your league campaign You've extra away games in there So listen you're going to have to pick up something On the way and why not An opening game against Wicklow Yeah and the specters are being cruel Not this year in It's the only five games So Wicklow last year We met three times We beat them once And the victory we had over them was down So we'll be going They get two points I suppose with the new Donny Gull team here And a lot of injury to key players But I suppose the panel The boys have been on the panels The last two or three seasons Are going to get their chance down this league So that's all about building the panels And we're going to get lucky On Sunday again Is part of that situation Kind of the long season with Satanta You know in terms of their players And a few injuries carrying over from that Well Richie Ryan McDonough and Cricket McGermann Have upped it out Brendan they just can't come up In family and work and different reasons So then please upped it out Who are normal starters in the team And then Danny Cullen And Deccan Calder have picked up Injuries and pre-season They've come back and played for Manor For us in the challenge match And a couple of training sessions But Danny already showed them The extra surgery on it last Saturday So has league campaigned over And Deccan may be not too serious But Deccan may be in each key hole For a cartilage operation So two big losses They've probably gone to the league But the rest are all just Injuries just getting cleared up Over the next few weeks And Ron McDonough obviously Who done excruciate on the final last year Won't be back until April So look you count that Seven boys maybe that started The McGregor final last year All out of contention at the minute Tough stuff to deal with Mickey with no better man than you Of course there's a couple of ding-dongers In there no more than our neighbours Tough for them to be played in there But exciting challenges That is indeed, it's very important It'd be nice to have two points on the board Before we meet Derry at home Because I do feel Derry is probably The strongest team in the division But in coming down 2A They seem to go down and up between the divisions Every couple of years So they just have played at that higher level More so than the other team in the division But I'd say two points this week More in line and then we'll get set On Tuesday at two big contests For us local derbys Yeah, that's some Mickey exciting stuff And everyone's behind you Get out and support to Harlan They've been a phenomenal time Mickey right at the top of 2B last year And another good campaign ahead Mickey doing Stirling work as well We'll be catching up with you as the season goes on All the best in that league open Dead on Brent Thank you very much Harlan boss there, Mickey McCann As ever leading into this season I'm looking ahead now to The next week We're away to Kevin, it's a bank holiday Monday So we've got to see what's happening And Joe Dex will need double time We'll discuss that another day When I thank him for producing All my guests who contributed this evening Of course, head of sport, Oshin Kelly Kenneth's for the record early today And we'll keep you updated as the week goes on


Welcome back to Senate Education, April 14th, Wednesday, 2.46 PM. We're moving on to the State Board of Education. Senators will recall our letter from the Social Equity Caucus and our conversation with Representative Christy last week, we agreed that Mr. DeMarie would draft some language that would work toward making the State Board more diverse, more inclusive. And so I've asked Mr. DeMarie to take us through that. And I've asked Jeannie to have Representative Christy in tomorrow afternoon to give us his feedback. And Jeannie is going to send him that language today. So he has the night to talk to colleagues and others. So we might be able to hopefully do something with this language this year, I think it warrants that my anticipation is, or what I suspect, is we would use one of the House bills, likely H101, which was their literacy bill as a vehicle for this and possibly other things. The House did pass out our literacy bill yesterday. The S114 left committee on a vote of 11-0-0. Some changes, a few changes. And Mr. DeMarie will take us through those changes tomorrow and we'll hear from the Agency of Education in Chelsea Meyers. The agency in particular were the recommenders of the changes. So we'll hear from them. And Chelsea Meyers has been helpful all the way along in this process. So we'll hear from her as well. But for now, let us go to this discussion and see if we might have language that we all are comfortable with. And then, like I said, we'll hear from the social equity caucus tomorrow. Mr. DeMarie? OK. Me, the language is up on our web page. So I missed your testimony last week. Joe was covering for me. Oh, right. That's right. And she asked me, she gave me feedback that you wanted me to look at how various other states approach this with their state boards or councils. I did look at the laws in New England states in New York state. There wasn't much, actually. There was a couple of things, but I used those examples to draft this language. So you'll see on page one, we're amending the section 161, which is the State Board of Education appointment of members. And you'll see on line 11, we already have a statute, the requirement that to the extent possible, the members shall represent geographically diverse areas of the state. So this draft strikes that language and says, to the extent possible, the members shall represent the state's geographic, gender, racial, and cultural diversity. Other states had versions of that. I didn't keep track of which states which, but I saw ones that said the commission members shall reflect the state's geographic, racial, and ethnic diversity. There's one that said the membership of the board must be representative of geographic diversity and gender balance. So you have approaches similar to this in other states. And then the last sentence here says, for the purpose of obtaining input from diverse sources for nominations by the governor, the governor shall convene a public meeting to obtain broad input prior to making a nomination for a member on the State Board. That idea came from the Rhode Island School for the Deaf. They've got that kind of language there for their school. So I brought that in concept for this. Thank you. Senator Lines? Herschel? Lines. I was going to just say, I'm less familiar with, I know it's a six-year term, but the frequency with which a public meeting might have to be held to appoint someone. If it's every year, that becomes problematic. It does establish a model for how many thousands of boards we have that are similarly important. So I'm wondering if there's a better way to get at the public participation than having the governor hold a meeting. I share that concern. But it's an important issue, which is how it's done. That's all. Senator Perslick? Yeah, I was going to have similar concerns about requiring a public meeting. I used to work for the state where we were required to have public meetings, but nobody ever came. We had to advertise for them. So I think it'd be better to require the governor to get names or have a process to where people can nominate names, because I can just see that a public meeting just kind of being forgotten about, not necessary. If nobody comes, then he doesn't get any nominations. But I guess it's the same if he just puts out a call or he or she puts out a call for nominations, then nobody nominates them. In other places, we have a process where some other entity makes nominations, which I don't know if that's more complicated than we want to get here. But I wondered about the public meeting part. And then I also, is it clear or do we need to be clear on what we need by cultural diversity? Because I could see people defining that differently. But I don't know if we all would have the same idea of what a culturally diverse board would look like. Does that definition exist in statute, Mr. Demeray, or do we have a definition of cultural diversity somewhere? No. No. OK. Senator Lyme. What about ethnic? What does ethnic do for us? Ethnic diversity with gender racial ethnic. We use that term in the ethnic studies, Bill. Yeah. Yeah. And it does have implications around cultural differences. And we certainly have different ethnic groups in our state. I think it's a little easier to make a point about it. I mean, we just heard testimony that Lyndon and Johnson University had different cultures. So would that be cultural diversity? That's a very good point. Senator Hooker. We're looking at BIPOC communities. I don't know if, you know, is that something that we would put in statute? I would assume that's the racial. That's the racial diversity. If I may, Senator Persley, would you say a bit more, just about the ethnic, the cultural ethnic studies curriculum? I'm sorry. But I'm forgetting the accurate name. But the language there. So it was. I think it's just called the ethnic studies, Bill. That's what we've referred to it. But I don't know. I think it did have more language, obviously, in the Bill. And I think even in the, we could look that up. I don't have it at the top of my head. I agree with everyone that has shared the concern about the public meeting. I think if, again, we were to work. And I agree with Senator Lyons and Senator Purchlick around cultural diversity and moving toward ethnic diversity. That might that might be enough. But that, Jim, if you could look around a little bit, continue to look around a little bit. And, again, we'll have Representative Christy in to weigh in on this tomorrow. But is everyone comfortable if we do not require the governor to convene a public meeting? OK. Yes, Senator Hooker. People apply for this? Or does the governor choose somebody? Because with judicial nominating, people apply. And then the judicial nominating board, that's those people. And then sends suggestions, nominees to the governor. And my understanding is that the governor appoints. I don't believe there is any kind of application process. And I think Mr. DeMurray just posted a little bit of information on that. Jim, do you want to add something? I just posted Act 1 for you, which it has a lot of information about these topics, right? So yeah. Oh. Act 1 is from a couple years ago. Yeah. Senator Lyons. So the governor does have an application form on somewhere. If you look for it, you can find it for boards, commissions, and committees. And then it gets filled out by the individuals. And then I don't know what happens after that, whether there's an interview or what. So then the question arises about identifying racial and ethnic differences. And whether or not it is legal to ask for that information. So Jim, is it legal to ask someone what their racial or ethnic background is and an application for a position such as this? I'm not an employment lawyer. I'm not sure. This is not on employment, though. This is obviously in the context of a board appointment. And I know the answer I have to check with, probably, Damien or another lawyer on that. Well, yeah, so I mean, I think people might be fine with disclosing who they are. But it does raise that question for me anyway. Thank you for looking for that. I mean, there was some language that we looked at early on, or it was from the governor's press person that said, again, generally, Governor Scott is looking to fill positions and have them more representative of the Vermont today and the Vermont we want to be and have greater diversity on our boards and commissions and appointments and recognizing that it didn't happen this time. So I think there are some guiding principles out there in general that the governor is following. And this would, again, just give some specificity and some direction on this. But one thing that I think might be helpful for us tomorrow, Jim, before having, when we hear from Coach Christy, if you would be so kind as to figure out between now and then, if you can't, I can just let me know, really, what is this process? Are people actually, in general, filling out applications and putting them forward? Is that acceptable, or are these, I've always seen these as more, hey, I'm now the governor and I know that Senator Lyons used to be on the Education Committee and I'd like her to take that this position. That's how I, but still I may require that Senator Lyons fills out an application. But I think it would be good for the committee to just know what exactly that process is. Yeah, I don't have a contact at the administration. So I'm happy to look into that, but I could use some help with the contact because I don't even know who you guys are. I will take it on. I will reach out to Kendall and she'll be able to, and maybe she could even come in tomorrow. Jeannie, would you ask Kendall to come in tomorrow? Yes, Senator Lyons. So, and Susanna Davis maybe, Kendall can link in with her. Well, that's a good idea. We have an expert on diversity in healthcare coming into our committee on Friday. And if Senator Hooker remembers, we can try to ask a question about ethnicity anyway. As I looked at the definition in the bill that Jim just posted or the information that you just posted that does have a definition of four ethnic groups on page something page it was on, but it's there. Okay. Jeannie, did you hear that request from me, Kendall Smith in the governor's office? I did just now. And did Senator Lyons suggest someone? I think we'll just start with Kendall and ask her to come in and ask her to just take us through the appointment process for the State Board of Education, how it works, is an application filled out, et cetera. And if you would have her please come in when Coach Christie comes in as well. Okay. And then will I believe I will ask Representative Christie to follow up with Ms. Davis this evening at Senator Lyons, good suggestion because I believe Ms. Davis is also integrally involved with the social equity caucus. So I'll make sure that that happens before tomorrow as well. Good suggestion. So Jim, if you don't mind, we are in agreement that we will strike that last bit about a public meeting and we will work, we'll hear more from Kendall tomorrow as well as we'll hear from Representative Christie and I'll ask for Christie to talk to Ms. Davis tonight. And do you want me to start the reference to cultural diversity? Yes, I think the committee feels ethnic diversity would be better. I'd not see any opposition to that. So, and I'll also, if you wouldn't mind, if it's, if you wouldn't mind just emailing me the clean draft to Jeannie and to me and I'll have Jeannie get the new draft to Coach Christie. Sure, that'd be great. The definition of ethnic groups is on page three of the link that Jim just sent. Okay. Okay. Anything else? Any questions, sounds like, and again, my hope would be to move this this year on the age bill and I'll work with Representative Webb a little bit so that when they get it, they'll also hopefully be comfortable with it. So going forward, this will be a new policy. We'll have to hear from a few other people as well. Final thing before we move on, I would just mention, we are going to continue today as soon as Ms. Wasserman is available on H426 and we also have the pilot program for, what is it called, the schools, not universal schools, but community schools. I am going to look at some language. One of the things I would like to add into that, if colleagues are comfortable and I'll bring the language forward, is to also tie some of our literacy work into community schools to see if there are ways to also continue to sort of focus on literacy and I'll work with Jim and others on that. And we'll pick that up next week. Okay, Jeannie, if you wouldn't mind seeing if Rebecca is available, that would be great. And committee, why don't we touch base in 15 minutes? Great, thank you.


Aloha, I'm Kirsten Baumgart-Turner and this is Sustainable Hawai'i, streaming live every Tuesday at noon at thinktechhawaii.com. You can join our conversation by tweeting at thinktechhi.com. We all live in a watershed in Hawai'i, and our daily lives rely on the eco-services provided by these watersheds. Native Hawaiians understood this. They forged the ahupua'a system to care for the life-giving water and the land it nourished. But generations of poorly planned development in our state has imperiled this system and left us with serious water pollution issues, like the infamous Alawai Canal. My guest today, Dr. Ken Kanashiro, and recently retired Major General Darryl Wong, have created a foundation to tackle these issues head-on. Dr. Kanashiro is the Director of the Center for Conservation Research and Training at the University of Hawai'i. He is also well known as the founder of the Hawai'i Conservation Alliance, which is a cooperative partnership of 25 government, education, and non-profit organizations. HCA's mission is to promote effective, long-term management of Hawai'i's native ecosystems through collaborative research, training, and outreach among land managers, scientists, educators, and the general public. Major General retired Wong, recently retired as the Adjutant General for the State of Hawai'i, where he commanded the Army and Air National Guard, while also serving as the Head of Emergency Management and Homeland Security. He was also advisor to the governor under that age. He's currently Senior Advisor to the University of Hawai'i Applied Research Lab and serves on the Board of Directors of the Polynesian Voyaging Society, which through its worldwide voyage has been focused on raising global awareness of the need to take care of our rivers and oceans. Welcome, General Wong and Dr. Kanashiro. Thanks for having us today. You two have been very busy. Yes, we have. All the right means. Well, why don't we begin today by telling us about the new foundation you've created? Well, I guess it was about three years ago that I first met General Wong, actually, and he was very concerned that his agency, the Hawai'i National Guard at that time and Hawai'i Civil Defense, really didn't have the kind of scientifically valid data information for his agency to make the best informed decision in mitigating the impact of a flood, for example. And so he posed a question, how can we engage the broader community, but perhaps especially the K-12 community, in helping to collect those kinds of data that would help this agency make better informed decisions? So that's how I got pulled into the discussion, and we've sort of joined together in developing this new initiative, the Hawai'i Exeperate State Initiative, and subsequently reformed the foundation to sort of build on that concept. Now I know that you've been working in trying to integrate K-12 education ever since you started the NEON project in Hawai'i. That's correct. And so how did you rope Major General Wong into this conversation and work? Yeah, well, so when he posed that question about how to engage the K-12 community, and I suggested that we use the foundation that we had already developed in getting graduate students to mentor K-12 students and teachers in actually conducting scientific research and collecting data that's actually publishable in scientific journals. So I never thought as a field researcher that I would get involved with K-12 science education, but that project, which was funded by the National Science Foundation at that time, was probably the most successful project I've been involved with. It's collecting this information and data that's very relevant to the communities where the schools were located. So we wanted to take off on that foundation that we had built in engaging the university through the graduate students and the K-12 schools. Now where is the data housed, and how is it then accessed and utilized? Yeah, well, right now we have portals. We've developed portals for each of the schools because they're not all doing the same kind of research. And so the students at the various schools are able to enter their data into those portals and manage it by themselves. We actually help to maintain the portals and so on, but it's primarily the students and the teachers of those schools that contribute to that database, which we will have access to on an ongoing basis. In general, then, how are your agencies that you headed up in the past able to access that data and utilize it? Well, eventually they'll get all that data to use when they need to do any type of flood mitigation type work, but I think the thing is, you know, you ask, how did I and Dr. Connoisseur get together? So as you look at it, it's a systems-wide approach of looking at this thing. So the third person in this foundation is actually Dr. Kevin Montgomery. And he's another scientist, but he's more doing technology. So if you look at Ken, it's more research science. And you wonder to someone who's more on the operational side, how do we come together and continue? Well, it's the coming together of the needs of the community, the operational needs, and enlisting the science and the kids, and then using technology. So it's a diversity of the three of us that really makes what we're doing probably more different than anybody's ever done that. And I know that you've been working with Kevin Montgomery since we worked together, and he's from Stanford University. So you're bringing in outside resources and integrating the knowledge base there from Stanford here, and we're fertilizing Stanford's knowledge with our UH expertise. Right. Absolutely. Indigenous knowledge, but we are in a world of science, so you leverage all of it to come up with a solution for the operational needs of, say, the state government, city government, or even the local community. Yeah, being able to integrate traditional knowledge with 24th century modern technologies has, I think, revolutionized STEM education in our community. So tell me, again, the name of the foundation, so we're all, we can all be aware of it. It's the Hawaii Exemplary State Foundation. Hawaii Exemplary State Foundation. I think we have your logo, too, which I thought was really a powerful logo. There it is on the screen. So the Hawaii Exemplary State Foundation is working with the schools using the data. What else are you doing that we should be aware of there? So again, the schools have done quite a bit in citizen scientists, what do you call science that matters for these kids, and they're doing things that are very meaningful. Some major hotels across the street are very interested because the Hawaii will impact the economic viability of the state of Hawaii if it pollutes enough and pollutes the rest. So we've also went to the University of Hawaii Engineering Department, and there's also industry people outside that are willing to kokuwa. So again, it's really a statewide community approach to tackle a problem that can have large impact for the economy in the state of Hawaii. Well, for our viewers who may not be aware of all the issues of the Hawaii, maybe you can just recap a couple of the things that you're trying to solve there. A couple of things. Give us a picture. I mean, I think we have some slides that we want to show. So if we look at that first picture, which is really a picture of some fishermen fishing for mullet in the Alawai Canal, believe it or not, and this was a picture taken in the early fifties. And so, you know, when I was a kid, I actually went with my dad to the Alawai Canal and learned how to mullet fish. You could eat the crab. You could eat the fish and the crab, and it was not a problem. But since then, of course, the Alawai has become probably the most polluted water body in the state. And so the biggest issue is that how do we actually clean up the watershed so that it can again become one of these multi-user recreational facilities for the community? And so I think you mentioned in your introduction that the traditional Hawaiian culture actually looked at watersheds from the top of the mountain down into the coral reef ecosystem. So even though we were focused on the Alawai Canal and trying to clean up this water body, we have to actually start our work at the headwaters of the Manoa and Palo Alto and Makiki streams, which are all empty into the Alawai Canal. So the Alawai Canal project is actually General Wong's brainchild. I mean, he thought that this was a situation in a community where you've got the hotel, the tourist industry, you've got residential communities, you've got schools involved. And if we can really engage the entire community to help work on this and have ownership to this watershed. Yeah. You can see the stakeholders that are involved behind the golf course there. There's hundreds of thousands of people who have a stake in how the water becomes polluted as well as using that water. Right. Right. Yeah. It's a very good illustration. A lot of our kids train canoe paddling. I think Olympic kayak teams had practiced there. But if it gets polluted, then people won't use it anymore. But the important thing is illustrating to the whole community that everyone's involvement is very important. So when Ken and I and Dr. Montgomery had a room full of people, everyone sat there and said, where do we interrelate with each other? So we didn't have a project. So the project I saw, we just said, we're going to take on the Alawai. Which is very ambitious and very exciting. Yeah, he's very ambitious. Particularly given the number of stakeholders we saw in that photo. Right. Well, I mean, if we go to the next board, I think it'll show you sort of a systems map of the stakeholders that would be involved in this. You've got academia all the way from the university to the K-12 schools. You've got the community with nonprofit organizations and so on. You've got private industry. You've got all of the government agencies. And so the Alawai Watershed Association, which has been, I think it's been incorporated in Hawaii maybe about 20 years ago, 15 to 20 years ago. And they've been working with all of these community stakeholders in agreeing to work together and collaborating in restoring this watershed ecosystem. So where do you start? What are the first things that you're working on, the first steps to begin cleaning up the Alawai? Well, we need to really identify what all of this is. So there's things like invasive species. If you go up to the headwaters on the back of the Alawai Valley, there's 150 acres that used to belong to the Catholic Church, the Paradise Park facility. So it's two 75-acre plots. And those two 75-acre plots, 150 total acres are just stacked with albizia. Which is an invasive tree. Which is an invasive tree. And it probably was the main reason for the flood that we had in October in Halloween Eve 2004, which caused about $90 million damage in most of it at the University of Hawaii. Because those are so fragile, they toppled over and clogged the streams. Clogged the drainage and it came over the top and we had this big flood event. And so that's one I think we need to really start to remove those kinds of invasive species in order to begin to restore the ecosystem. Because if you remove those, it not only removes the potential obstruction, but you can replace it with native plants that hold the soil better and reduce the soil erosion as well. And I would imagine that that also contributes, and I'm saying this because I learned it from you Ken, that it also contributes to less invasive bugs and other things that disrupt all of the native species that would hold the watershed together. And the other thing is that as we've been talking, we're taking the system-seeking approach so that whatever we do in this watershed, whatever component of what they were doing really does depend on other aspects of this ecosystem. For example, removing the albizia, it's very expensive. We just heard that the Alawai Watershed Association is trying to remove one albizia tree, which is about 125, 150 feet tall, and it's going to cost them $12,000 for one tree. Now, so they have to remove it and dispose of it, but if you collect and harvest those trees and use it for biomass to energy, the biochar, then we've talked about that before. And there's tremendous opportunities for so many albizia. We need to take a break, but when we come back, we'll hear about what other steps are being taken to clean up the alawai. Hi, I'm Ethan Allen, host of Lakeable Science on Think Tech Hawaii. I hope you'll join me each Friday afternoon as we explore the amazing world of science. We bring on interesting guests, scientists from all walks of life, from all walks of science, to talk about the work they do, why they do it, and more why it's interesting to you. What the science really means to your life, its impacts on you, how it's shaping the world around you, and why you should care about it. I do hope you'll join me every Friday at 2 p.m. for Lakeable Science. Aloha, I'm Kaui Lucas, host of Hawaii is my mainland here on Think Tech Hawaii every Friday afternoon at 3 p.m. Start your Paul Hano weekend off with the show where I talk to people about issues pertinent to Hawaii. You can see my previous shows at my blog, kauilukas.com, and also on Think Techs. Hi, we're back with Major General Wong and Dr. Ken Kanashiro who are telling us about their very ambitious project to clean up the alawai. We're most indebted to you guys for taking us on. So we talked first about the albezia and the importance of restoring native species. What are some of the other steps that need to be taken to begin to clear up the alawai? So initially when we talked about, you know, there's three legs to this foundation. There's Kevin Montgomery, Dr. Kanashiro myself. So Kevin Montgomery is the technologist. So the idea is putting in sensors in the rivers to measure not only fast-moving water which can show the community when they may need to get out of their homes because the river is moving fast and high, but also to measure bacteria in the water. So it'll come down the mountains and into the alawai. That way as they make changes to say what they use to wash their cars and do things, you can measure the effect it has on the water that is coming into the alawai. So again, going back to data, going back to the community is saying that what you're doing is making a difference. Without that, they're going to say, I don't know if what I'm doing is changing, is doing anything, but it really will. But then those sensors will be owned by the middle schools or the high schools. And those technology will be taught to those kids. We're kind of joking. So they'll manage those sensors. That's awesome. That was your vision over 10 years ago when we talked about the neon project. It's so wonderful to see it coming to fruition. On our own. Yeah. So it's all interrelated because, as Ken talked about, the albija of the trees is going to cause flooding. If we don't take care of the riverbanks and everything else, so flooding and the emergency to that community, so they own those sensors. I told them when I was a little kid, if I saw that in a river, I'd be throwing rocks at it. But if you know that it's going to take care of your community, you're going to make sure that sensor is operating. Absolutely. So how do some of the other constituents in that spaghetti chart that you have showing the system's approach to understanding the impacts on the alwai? How do some other agencies or organizations, say, for example, the Minua Community Organization or Mila Li'i, how do they get involved and what would their role be? So we've been working with, as I said, the alwai watershed association, and we've sort of depended on that organization, which has been in operation for nearly two decades, to bring to the table the partnerships that they've already developed, established with these stakeholders. But at the same time, General Wong and I have been meeting with DLNR. I had a meeting with the Department of Health. The core is involved and so on. So we are engaging as many of these stakeholders that have either responsibility of regulatory responsibility or some management responsibility in the watershed. And the DLNR, the Department of Land and Natural Resources, a couple years ago now, executed that wonderful program, Rain Follows the Forest for Watershed Management for Oahu. Is that coming into play in terms of using that plan to educate the K-12? I think DLNR has quite a growing and strengthened educational outreach program. Are you utilizing that to reach out? Whatever tools are out there and curriculum that's out there, we will take advantage of rather than trying to start from scratch. But the idea, I think the most important idea is that we want to get the kids out there conducting actual research that's valid for scientific publication. So that's why the mentorship by the graduate students is so important. Many of the teachers, they may have a science background, but conducting research by themselves without some kind of mentorship by real scientists that's being trained in scientific research is difficult. And so by having, it was incredible when we had the GK-12 project funded by the National Science Foundation, how many teachers have been knocking our door, can we have a graduate student to help us with these kinds of research projects? So, yeah, getting the kids involved in actually conducting scientific research as part of their STEM education curriculum is critical to this project. So one of the component people might not understand is, so Ruth Gates is an expert in the choral. Actually, she's going to be on the show again in a couple of weeks as we work up to the World Conservation Congress. So my relationship with Ruth Gates and going back to your original statement, so just to make a correction, I'm not on the board of the Polynesian Women's Society, but I know and I have been friends for many years and I've gone on a voyage in Australia with him and gone in New York and that's where Ruth Gates and I know and some others, we dove the Great Barrier Reef. So part of the water, the all of why look is we can measure it with technology, but the true measure of life and the purity of water is the choral. So we will add choral also in the look of from the mountain all the way to the ocean. So yesterday we were at a symposium and Mrs. Avi made a statement which really took, I think caught both of us and we thought it was very, it was very important to say you cannot disconnect the forest from the ocean. Absolutely. And we, so we, as Ruth Gates spoke there, then she talked about the choral is kind of the forest in the ocean. So the forest in the mountain, all the way to the forest under water needs to be connected. And that's the only way we're going to have a true ecosystem restoration of this water. So we're including quite a bit of things, but everyone is very interested. So if I wanted to get involved, do you have a website that you're establishing or do I have to work through the schools? We are planning to develop a website. We're in the very early stages of our organization. We haven't gotten any funding yet, but we're anticipating significant funding to really take this and complete this project, but more than just doing it for Hawaii and just for the Hawaii community, but just take it across the other I hope why in the state, but also use it as a model for other watersheds globally. Absolutely. So there's already interest. I mean, General Wong has, while he was the Adjutant General National Guard had connections with the government in Bali and they have actually agreed to take two of their streams and watersheds and apply whatever we've been doing in the Hawaii, apply it there. That's wonderful. Are you going to get an opportunity to share all this at the World Conservation Congress? No. I think we need to share this show with folks as they come. We'll have to talk about how to do that because certainly this is something that should be shared widely. I know as we wind down our time, I want to make sure we also talk about your other exciting and important project about mosquito vectors. Can you tell us about that? Right. In fact, that's the reason why the Alawai watershed got superseded about a year ago or a little more than a year ago. I got a call from the IUCN, one of the program directors there, the Species Survival Commission Director. And he gave me a call from Switzerland asking me, do I think we could eradicate mosquitoes from the state of Hawaii for the purpose of reducing the impact of avian malaria for the native birds? Of course, you know that we've lost many of our native bird species due to avian malaria and avian pox.  And there were some interests, but not overwhelming so. And now, of course, the whole concern over Zika makes it even more pertinent. That's what happened. So when that happened, and I got a call then from Senator Brian Schatz's office asking me exactly the same question from the perspective of Zika and Dengue and these human diseases, and at the same time, about a week or so later, we got an interest from the Asian Development Bank in the Philippines about how we might be able to address mosquito issues more broadly, not just in Hawaii. So the pressure was on us, taking a systems thinking approach, which is our foundation, in addressing vector-borne diseases like Zika and Dengue. So in a matter of a couple of months, I pulled together maybe 40 experts, mosquito experts globally, to agree to come to Hawaii to discuss the feasibility of eradicating mosquitoes from the state of Hawaii. Using, again, the systems thinking approach. So it's going to be pretty exciting. So it's going to be held during the Congress, September 6 and 7 on the Big Island. And in fact, the mayor, Mayor Kenoise's office, actually committed to funding the workshop. Terrific. So that's on the 6th and 7th. Are the participants also participants in the World Conservation Congress, or are they coming just for this? A few of them are already coming for the Congress, but the rest of them are actually coming just for it. Just for this. The workshop. That's very exciting. And it's going to be a series of workshops. We're not going to be able to do it in a two-day workshop. Come up with an effective strategic solution for addressing vector-borne diseases. So if someone of our audience wanted to get involved in that, how would they get connected? At the moment, it's not an open meeting. We wanted to keep it small so that we can have more effective discussion. But as I said, it's going to be a series of discussions, meetings, and workshops. But I think as we approach maybe the third or fourth workshop where we'll be able to put up a develop and establish a strategic plan is when we'll have a sort of an open meeting so that other people in the community can actually begin to hear about what our plans are. Well, I'm sure you're going to be very successful at drawing money to this endeavor, and perhaps as a secondary. There's a lot of interest. There's a lot of interest. Because it's such a huge concern for the world right now. I'm wondering, Major General Wong, as you move forward, are you going to be continuing these educational opportunities? You seem to be a man of many seasons. As we close, give us a peek into your future. I think Ken and I have kind of committed ourselves to not the alibi, but this concept of true, how do you solve problems with systems approach thinking? So I think I'm doing several things. One is the applied research lab, really helping influence cyber and critical infrastructure protection. But I think this is going to be, I mean, I can't speak for Ken, but I think we've talked. This is going to be our life's work. We'll do this till we're dirt, how's that? Sounds good. Well, I hope you don't, I hope you hang on for a while. We really appreciate all that you're both contributing to Hawaii's well-being and our sustainability. And I hope our audience will join us next Tuesday at noon at Sustainable Hawaii, thinktechhawaii.com.