ne is the greatest sign of his truth That when paul says that 500 people saw him afterwards That's why his mission took off because people had tried to kill him to prove that he was accursed And god saved him and they had the same interpretation of the post crucifixion appearance of jesus as i have Which is that he had survived and therefore he was not accursed of god Therefore he was god's messenger. Therefore god. They should actually listen to him Paul in actual fact and i refer you to the book paul and the Pharisee conspiracy against jesus Paul in actual fact was a hypocrite within jesus's movement who sought to distort jesus's actual message So as to make it unpalatable for jews to accept by making out like jesus was an actual fact An idolatrous figure within christianity when actually jesus was the leader of the ebionites the early jewish christian movement so As for the medical research i'll finish on this particular point I'm not going to label the point that i'm an intensive care doctor because there are intensive care doctors who are more Senior than me who are christian but they're not here and i'm i'm here debating So i'm going to give my viewpoint on this particular matter and that is this that to give medical research evidence That a person died and came back to life is absurd okay If blood in and water even if you accept the first first two points about the blood and water firstly Blood cannot separate from water. Okay in coagulation I know you haven't particularly made this point, but people do they say it's plasma If it becomes plasma then the blood can't come out because it's coagulated and this certainly wouldn't come out under pressure And you say that it doesn't say that it came out rapidly it says that it just came out That's not what it says youth. This means Straightaway rapidly forthwith. This is the original greek word and it indicates a beating heart And so we have at the moment at the very moment of checking whether he is dead We have a beating heart in evidence and the person witnessed it writes This is a true testimony. And this is what I witnessed with my own two eyes So I want to end on this particular note I would refer all the listeners to two books in particular Called one deliverance from the cross by Muhammad Zafrullah Khan It's a free as a pdf online and jesus in india Which goes through the evidence in a much more thorough and detailed fashion than I can hear on this evening here this evening Thank you very much michael. Thank you very much james for um for entertaining us today I say say thank you for the debate. I'll be live on my channel to review it tomorrow Hope everyone who is watching will watch that as well You got it and our guests are linked in the description. What are you waiting for? You can click on their links right now You apparently enjoy listening to them so you can listen more like clicking on their links below First question coming in from issa kavir says kum, let me know if i'm pronouncing this right kum hais ho or do t They say always great to see you ip This one from kyle says thank you question for True islam the Quran says to believe in jesus as a prophet and his book the bible So why would you and your entire religion disregard jesus's own words with him stating his own death? Uh, so that's a great question. So that's uh, the faulty premise there. So the Quran doesn't say that, um, jesus was It says that we must but so the principle in islam is that we believe that god has sent messengers to every nation on earth It says in the front that there is no nation to whom a messenger has been has not been sent To him a warner has not been sent So we believe the australian aborigines and native americans the english the french everybody has had a messenger from god Over time they get mythologized and they turn into witches and wizards and the rest of it, right? Now as for jesus peace beyond him We believe that he what we are what we are bound to accept Is not the current version of his statements and his revelations, right? We take it as a historical document That's how we see the bible and we believe it has contains true prophecies It contains true words that jesus did say but it also contains a lot of interpolations And so what we're admonished to accept according to the Quran is the principle that jesus received revelations And that those revelations which are mentioned also in the Quran is the injil that we are to accept them but in terms of uh The gospel narrative or the the narrative of the gospel writers that they put upon the events of the crucifixion That doesn't mean that we have to accept them And now you you point out what jesus actually said that he you know He said claimed to have said that he will die and raise him on the third day The fundamental tension between myself and michael i guess is is a question It hinges upon this very claim and i think michael will probably agree on that as well that whether jesus claimed to that he would Um, how should we understand the two different things one? There's a sign of jonah He says my sign will be the sign of jonah, which i've explained is not related to the time thing Because at least in two of the three references time isn't even mentioned and secondly Me going on holiday for two for three days and three nights doesn't mean i've shown the sign of jonah The sign of jonah is survival against all odds Okay, that's what everybody at the time of jesus would have understood the sign of jonah to refer to that's what makes it a sign That god demonstrated his attributes of magnificence by saving a person in the midst of the storm So that's on the one hand death cannot be the sign there Okay, it has to be survival And so when he said therefore i'll die and rise on the third day, which the disciples didn't understand I take that to me a metaphorical statement if it was made by jesus of which i have doubts, but Let's take it today. It was actually made by jesus I take that to be a metaphorical statement the same way that jonah himself said that i called to the god In the from the place of the dead to be raised from the dead means to me It needs to be raised in the place of the dead as he himself explained to the daughter of jairus Which is that she is not dead. She's only asleep. He was in a coma-like state and then he uh was brought back But he was never clinically dead Got it. We've got a number of questions. So i've got a let's see. I should have said this earlier is my fault is that we've got a That one was an incisive one. So i want to give you plenty of time on that one We just have to maybe move quicker through some of these though. We'll do my best Totally okay. Apollo's christian apologetics as jon 1934 means immediately after in order Not speed Unconjugated root is Uh greek word that nobody would understand which means straight according to lsj slash strong's Not once in all coine greek literature. Does it translate? fast or as fast you can't read gk yet smashed Yeah, I mean the word basically means just come out of it does not mean to come out faster in a certain way Like when you look in the movie the passion of christ and you see the blood and water spraying out of that Did not happen. That's just that's not what jon says that'd be very unlikely According to the medical research the vorges means to come out of it's using matthew 526 Matthew 2 6 just you know four out of judo shall come the ruler as basically what it's saying It does not refer to any type of speed or anything So it does not say the blood and water was gushing out of him like a river It most likely would have happened when the spear went in some came out and then that would have been basically been it It was it's you can see this on frezrik juggerbees book. He talks about this in detail Uh, can I just yeah, can I speak to that? Does that's right? Yeah. Yes. So, um, thank you for that question If you look at strong's definition, it's very clear it says so outline of big biblical usage Um, this is on blue letter bible. I'm not making this up myself You can go on blue letter bible go to the word go click on youthy's g2117 is strong's word It says straight level straight forward upright truce and sear straight away immediately fourth width Right, and then in strong's definition. He says you through literally level or figuratively true adverbially of time at once A non by and by fourth width immediately straight away So if you cut if it says straight away or fourth width or immediately they came out blood and water The meaning of that is quite clear that he had a beating heart because I don't know, you know How many dead bodies you guys have interacted with I'm not sure but even when you take a vial of blood Right from a patient if you do not do this with it and keep it moving All right, that blood coagulates within a minute Okay, so the idea that a person within who is dead possibly for five minutes 10 minutes 15 minutes 20 minutes That his blood should come out straight away Right or rapidly under force under a degree of pressure Which is what is indicated by that word because things wouldn't come out straight away Who would trickle out if they cut him on the side and he was dead and that indicates to me at least that indicates that he was Uh, he was he was alive see the crucifixion of jesus forensic inquiry by frederick zagabee He deals with all this and shows no that's not easy. Is he a passionate christian? I don't know. I just I've read the parts of the book. I think he's a christian. Yeah, but that that doesn't matter. He's still a medical expert This one coming in from dash is the islamic belief that a la only made it look like jesus was crucified and then waited 600 years to reveal What actually happened doesn't make sense to me So that's a really great question. I really like that question. Um Uh, no, that's not true.  He survived and therefore he is an actual fact from god Um, and then when he left rapidly and he migrated as all prophets do and often prophets do rather And he migrated to the east where he turns up in hindu literatures And i've mentioned that that he's mentioned in hindu literature after 78 80 years the virgin Son of god who born of a virgin who names himself jesus the messiah So that's something for christians really to try and explain away the What happened is is he developed the ebionites with the with a group of jesus's followers in judia And paul created a breakaway group which became the church But the ebionite split from paul and with his arrest and with his statements, especially in the courts Of herald and then in rome it became evident that paul was following a completely different teaching to jesus paul's movement It wasn't really christianity in the true sense of jesus's original teaching Spread in the in the west whereas jesus's original message the ebionite following spread in the east in asia Forward pretty soon here Yeah, the ebionites did not actually they were not what people that they denied that jesus was the christ They thought the christ was a heavenly figure that descended upon him They also thought they all could become christ most of them denied the virgin birth And they do not date to the early church. They come after the 70 80 destruction The earliest you date him is early first century But their movement didn't start springing up until after the apostles are basically passed on So now the earliest church is what we see in paul's letters and in the gospels So I gotta move forward. I can give you the last word on this one. Hold on a second I can give you the last word on this one to hear It's just that I do also want to keep it on the actual question Is that we're eventually we're gonna have to stop giving you guys for buttles because you just have so many questions And there's a lot to unpack for each one So go ahead to here We'll give you the last word on this one because this is just going back to youthies of the just I just realized something completely silly of me youthies the the thing the blood coming out is about a previous question Not this question the youthies coming out, you know, blood and water came out the word youthies actually means straight or level That's the first application of the word for blood and water to come out straight or level from the person's body means it was under pressure That's the original meaning of the word. It's not simply So that's a great proof that it was under pressure Because it was straight or level that it came out from his body That in actual photo shows that it was came out forcefully under pressure under a beating heart That's a fantastic proof from the original word of the word meaning the word youthies Gotta move the next one Austin says when the Quran says the jews killed him not could this Could this just mean Allah killed him and so the jews shouldn't boast like in surah 8 17 No, so it says clearly in the verse of the pran it says It's recounting some of the the wrong things that the jews had done for which god was displeased with them Um, and and it says and for their saying we did kill the messiah's son of Mary the messenger of god So they're using the word messenger of god ironically, they're like, oh, yeah, we killed this messenger of god Right, so it's not that god killed him because god then immediately Denounces that view it says whereas they did not kill him nor did they kill him through crucifixion But he only appeared to them as one like that So or he was made to appear to them as one so so god is very clear they claimed to kill him They didn't kill him. He appeared to them as though he was dead That's exactly what i'm saying here today This one coming in from joshia wooden says the topic is did jesus die by crucifixion redirecting to resurrection? Yes miracles are not common your quote was to the jews who know psalm 22 I'm sorry. I mean real That's what I would say. I mean this it's not the debate is not over the resurrection. It's not if jesus died It's far more likely jesus died and did not rise and that jesus even survived I think it's I think jesus died and rose from that I think that's the most likely explanation given all the data But given just the evidence of the crucifixion if we just look at the evidence of the crucifixion jesus died If they saw him walk around after then he resurrected that's a big if that's another debate in terms of this debate Yes, jesus did die. That's what the evidence suggests So coming on do appreciate your question joshia wooden says jesus is messiah in the quran You said he was false messiah sounds like shirk and what say you about some muslims say that he did die octum's razor So I never said he was I never said he was a false messiah absolutely not the term massif Means the anointed one it also indicates the one who travels a lot actually in the original word Which also indicates jesus's tree say jesus was not a false messiah jesus was the true messiah of the jewish people as per muslim belief And the must we believe that the muslim messiah has also come who was the founder of the ahmadi muslim community mirza ghulam ahmadi You got it this one coming in from do appreciate it libel says To true islam You don't believe jesus was crucified and resurrected, but you believe in your prophet having flown on a donkey to jerusalem They say I don't understand Yeah, it was a magical donkey So we don't we don't believe that uh, it happened It was a literal event It was a vision that he had and if he flew to heaven And it was a vision that he had where he entered through heaven and the best proof of this is the fact But the quran recounting this in the surah called surah tan najam It states that the heart of the prophet did not lie in what it saw it doesn't say his eyes did not lie And in the full of hadith the full statement of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him when he Recounts the entire thing the last words of that hadith were and then he woke up Right. So the entire vision that he had where he entered into heaven was not a literal event. He was sleeping It was a it was a it was a spiritual experience This one coming in and do want to remind you folks If you happen to put in a super chat that's substantive We'll of course read it if you put in a super chat That's just like an insult or just something that says like oh, this is just a myth on either side We're not looking for those for the q&a king Josiah of Judah says does the bible contradict Contradict itself when it says god doesn't lie in numbers 23 19 yet he sends a lie In caps spirit in first kings 22 23 and boast about it getting prophets to lie in Ezekiel 14 9 and then sends lies to unbelievers in 2nd Thessalonians 2 10 through 11 So, yeah, I've addressed this in the past one thing we need to remember at the old testament is oftentimes active verbal forms Are used even for passive responses We see this in exodus 5 where pharaoh puts upon heavy burdens upon the israelites and moses says, why did you do this god? Well, no, he just let pharaoh do it sometimes god lets Certain spirits come in and do things like in first Thessalonians. It says about a powerful delusion coming This is just god letting it happen So in the biblical context sometimes active verbal forms just represent passive responses So we need to keep that in mind It talks about pharaoh hardening his own heart, but also god hardening pharaoh's heart But that you know active forms for passive responses. So just keep that in mind I thought there was a lot of various things on that You got it. Are you guys able to hear my fan? I hear in my That's great. Okay. You don't have any fans james. Yeah, I know I was going to say your fans the screaming ones in the background It's so hot in here wearing this suit that I uh, I turned my fan on this one graze 174 says How can the divine savior even be crucified given that his physical body was an illusion? Did I just read that? So that sounds like a gnostic idea the idea that or a dosetist idea the idea that he didn't have a real body Those were the first people to them to deny the crucifixion And believing in substitution theory or something like it But that was that just sounds like a gnostic idea. Jesus had a physical body He came in the flesh all the early sources support this gnostic text date to the second century or later And they're denying the crucifixion for theological reasons namely that they didn't think Jesus could suffer So they put people someone like Judas on the cross or Simon the serene that kind of stuff Can I come on that just two seconds short? I think one of the main problems they have is the idea of a person being a cursed who is a beloved of god To be cursed as I've mentioned before is naturally to satan satan was cursed because he was put out of the love of god and that is what it means to be cursed It is the opposite of being brought close to god And so your belief that Jesus natural fact was a curse of god that he was cursed and put away from the father Is um is is is is contrary to the for our view, which is that Jesus was a beloved of god And he prayed to god and saw his help It's also actually very contradictory to your own view Which is that Jesus was god because how can you become distant from your own self? If Jesus was god and he was one of the father, how did he become a curse from the father?   That's not even this is this is far more complicated This is a whole another debate you can read books like william lung craig on penal substitution or books by nt If you write if you want more on that, uh, but this is the single point is the single point I would be respectful of james and his time, you know, because he's got a lot of questions That's fine. The simple point for me is that it's a pure contradiction Like actually would I would prefer with the not not sticks view if they had to choose between Crucifying him to death not crucifying I prefer not crucifying because it condemns a a righteous man to a curse of god When he is apparently also got simultaneously This one coming in from ghost to 409 says true islam uk jesus says quote my god my god He refers to psalms 22 if you read then psalm 22 16 through 18 you can see jesus refers to it Cause it points to him because it points to him The my father quote unquote prayer refutes islam Hey, james real quick. I'll be back in like 10 seconds. You got it Is that for me? I guess that's questions for me, isn't it? I since it. Yes. I think so I mean, I always find it extraordinary that you have to read into the context and read in which psalm it's from Etc when you but you don't even read the actual words and what they simply say He says my father my father my my my god my god. Why is that forsaken me? Right, why don't you just read the plain reading of it? Which is that he believes that he was going to be saved And therefore and and yet he feels that he's dying And he thinks therefore the god has forsaken him and the question Obviously again needs to be begged which is that if he is actually god How can he be forsaken by god? Can I say oh tahrir tahrir? You're forsaking me when I am tahrir This makes no sense So this is why the the rational mind has an insurmountable problem in saying 1 is 3 and 3 is 1 and the crucifixion is a moment To which all this comes together and and and problem because compounded upon problem with statements of jesus This will come in problem. We're trinitarians not modals by the way matters now says i'm not convinced after the rebuttals Looking forward to the open discussion. I am hosting an after show to discuss great debate osean They don't say what's either uh unconvinced on the uh, so it might be that uh, it's a teaser. So thinking monkey says No winners or losers just a nice respectful debate. Thanks for that thinking monkey. You all credit to our guests linked below Vector says ala doesn't forgive sahi muslim six six six five Abu masa reported that ala's messenger said When it will be the day of resurrection ala would deliver to every muslim a jew or a christian and say That is your rescue from hellfire Oh, yes, that is in sahi muslim.  So we end up being So it is a the tonement theory and if you take the sahi muslim, for example, yeah, there is a tonement in there for sure It's just jews and christians pay for the sense of muslims Uh, if i may yep absolute false Firstly a hadith can never be used to establish a qida, which is belief only the quran can And the quran very clearly states that on that day no ransom shall be accepted from any soul Nor shall any intercession be given for it nor shall any Any bar to be taken for it the quran is absolutely clear that every person pays For their own sins and lives for their own sins this statement of sahi muslim that muslim would be given a jew or a christian Means that by virtue of the intercession of a jew or a christian or the prayers of a muslim Certain jews and christians whom god wishes to forgive Will forgive them through the prayers and the supplications of that particular individual has nothing to do whatsoever with Sins being transferred the quran is absolutely clear that sins cannot be transferred And the final point i make is that you should look at sort of bakr, which is the second chapter of the quran again You have to look at the quran for the beliefs not the hadith And it says very clearly that jews and christians and those who believe in Allah the one god and the last day And those who do good deeds on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve So the quran is very clear that if you are a jew or christian And you reject the notion of trinity or you reject the notion of other concepts And you adhere to the oneness of god and you believe in the day of accountability And you do good deeds for the sake of god you have the possibility of paradise Um because that in actual fact are the bases of islam This one coming in from joshua wooden says akhams razor applies here 2000 years of christianity blessing the world versus 1400 years of suffering in islam the pattern of conduct is the root not jewish people Give you a chance to respond to that even though some of these are not super on topic But i mean real quick i'd say i'd love to have a debate with someone on which is better for humanity christianity Christianity or as long i will i got some study i'll do that i'll do that debate any day of the week buddy i've got any day of the week James if you could sort that out i'm very happy to do that debate Well that sounds fun You got it or or actually somebody else from my platform. I'm probably not the best person for that actually But somebody else on the platform. That's fine. I'm happy to anyway. Sure. I got a lot of research to go through though a lot Lot was it research like today's because if it was buddy, you need to possibly do read some more books Anyway, i'm well i read a lot of books, but sociological research specifically Okay, so if i can just speak to that very quickly james It was a bit of an attack on the muslim community in a way Yes, i mean if you look everywhere everywhere Indonesia, morocco south of spain north africa Still in arabia iran you will find the indigenous communities of all of those places still there You go to indonesia. You don't find arabs. You find indonesians. You go to morocco.  You go to australia, right? You go to all of these places whole continents The indigenous people were wiped out completely wiped out by and it was often fueled by a christian notion Which is that the white saviour mentality, okay? So the fact of the matter is the facts of history speak for themselves But all the places is slam spread the indigenous populations still are ruling there all the places christianity spread through protestant movement And often through the catholic movement as well the whole of south america principally the ruling classes became europeans european christians So I think that speaks for itself and that's a yeah, that's just a bivariant means comparison. It's its fallacy This would not be accepted as real research in any sociological study Again, bivariant means comparisons do not work that well You need to go on what actual multivariate analysis with robustness check show and again, you don't want to bring those studies up I got plenty This one coming in from do appreciate your question josh will wooden strikes again says outcomes razor Christ is the truth not knowing this is why there are so many. Let's see See this easy principle no cults Uh, let's look at for something josh why I hate to say that I need something more on Stop it. Addison weir says, what do you guys think of david wood's recent video in which he argues that the koran Might actually teach jesus's resurrection Yeah, I mean I read uh, I mean I've seen kalil andani Make these arguments that the koran could very well indicate that and again. I'm not an expert on this But I would appeal more to him. I thought he made a good case. So I refer people to that It was on the capture and christianity channel. I saw i'm doing it You got it I think it's self-evidently false. I mean That simply says he was on the cross because if I say to you if I say to you you appear to be dead Or you it's the same I say to michael michael you look so healthy today I can't be looking at james and say michael looks healthier. I have to actually be looking at Michael to say that he looks any way whatsoever So when it says in the crime that he appeared to them as though he was dead It's a simple statement It simply means he was on the cross he looked dead and then but he wasn't Because it says they did not kill him It precedes the statement that he looked a particular way by saying they did not kill him Don't you lie. I look old.  I'm practically in the grave at this point One foot in the grave even maybe you could say This one coming in from do appreciate your question joshel wooden says We're gonna let me Like vet those before apollo's christian apologetic says jesus rose because he's god causation in parentheses, but Epistemically he's god because he rose no difference No different than muslim who says koran is divine because of god, but you know a la because of the koran So no, you don't know a la because of the koran actually The koranic view is that every human being knows god internally because god is imprinted upon the soul of mankind the unity of god You got it this one coming in from do appreciate this one as well Jay dan says for both Why did a la make it look like jesus died with this causing the biggest false religion in the world then a la punishes christians falling for this lie So it's a great question god didn't make it look like he died God said that he appeared to them as dead when he was on the cross But afterwards when he was seen by everybody, guess what everybody Concluded he survived. That's why jesus's message took off is because they saw him as paul says 500 saw him And they therefore saw that he had not died I mean i belabor the point because it's it's self-evident if you see a person post an assassination attempt with the wounds of their assassination upon their body It is a pre foregone conclusion that they survived. There is no other hypothesis one would entertain That is the only conclusion one would entertain and that's why when he was asked are you a ghost? He denied being a ghost and then he proved the necessity of his human body by asking for fish and bread It's funny that even jesus and all the disciples said, oh you you came back to life No one ever in the first century posited that he survived It's only centuries later that we get this so the actual thing they said was that he came back to life Not that he survived. So there's just no evidence in the first century that anyone believed that Okay, i've given my i've given my view on that and we've gone through that Joshua wooden says watchers get paper and record record all fallacies from each side learned from learned this from jesus expected to get their attention You got it. No idea what that means I don't either jay this one coming in from chris ells says such a cruel irony that let's see uh atheists under it's okay Joshua woods says keep track of shirk as he said issa is a false prophet No, I don't think he said that I don't think you said I never said that I said that wooden you're off the rails man. You're just Sorry guys, it's uh There was a really interesting comment if I may james read it out by one big youtube called apostate prophet Who is who is logged in? I don't know if you saw his comment Yeah, yeah, I know Can I we'll get to his I promise AP Because I hope you're behaving out there this one from Hunk giver says if jesus was speaking metaphorically about being quote the son of man on quote How do you reconcile mark? 1462 when jesus clearly references daniel question for true islam uk Well, i'm just pointing out that he was the son of he was not the son of man because he was born of a virgin It's a very simple point if you're born of a virgin you are not the son of a man You might be the grandson of a man You're not the son of a man and therefore any usage of his term of the son of a man is evidently Metaphorical it cannot be literal According to christian theology That the word for man also means human just so we know that that's how it was used in that context as well Well, it's interesting because the quran only refers to isa is issa ibn mariam, which means jesus's son of mary Day, well, I mean again, son of man is a title that we see from daniel seven about who the messiah was going to be did not refer to his biological ancestors No, I agree with that. That's absolutely fine. I'm not i'm not i'm not disagreeing that my point is is that if you're going to You what the christians necessarily therefore take it metaphorically to some extent at least because they accept that he was not born of a man They also have a secondary meaning was they set man as a term which is used for humanity So that's the metaphorical aspect of it if that makes sense Well, then my point is that you you you don't use the same for the son of god That's my point but but but we we went through this and you said no i You accept this metaphorical as son of god as well. Yeah, I get that that's fine. I appreciate that You got it this one coming in from obey says if the disciples didn't eventually understand why christ needed to die Why did james not try to persuade paul to preach some different something different in galatians too Right.  He says if you're of the circumcised remain there You're of the uncircumcised remain there james then confirms exactly the same thing in verse 25 As for the Gentiles, we sent them this letter that we see in acts 15 that they do not have to become strict jews There are certain things they should need to follow which goes back again to what we see in genesis nine Where the covenant god makes with noa and he gives all these commands to all of humanity the jews had a specific covenant They kept following james followed paul followed but the Gentiles didn't have to they followed the covenant We see they were given the noa You got it and folks if i haven't yet go ahead No, no go on do your thing. Sorry. Oh, you're good. Please What have you got one chrithians 9 20 paul actually says to the jews I became as a jew in order to win the jews to those under the law I became as one under the law Though not myself being myself under the law that I may win those under the law Right. Yeah, you're for that's what that's what he that's what he says in one chrithians now We know that paul was an actual fact the jew And yet he himself says in his own letters that he that the law did not apply to him He says though not much being myself under the law I assume The garb of the law so that I may win them over so he's openly Except that he's a hypocrite Okay, he openly accepts that there is a difference in his word and his deed and his belief in his heart and his actions Right and he himself says that he being a jew did not practice We was not under the law So I don't know what this argument is that oh paul and james had no difference paul himself behaved in a way which was contrary to james's Stipulated statement and which is why james required him to repent publicly of his doctrines, which he did So paul publicly repented of modern-day christian doctrines So i'm not sure where you're getting this from that paul never advocated Jews for not following the law and I would put it to you now Do you tell jews who become christian do you tell them they have to continue to follow all of the laws of moses? Again, I I agree with to a youtube channel two messianic jews who were on my channel about this That yes jewish christian still follow the Torah and again paul says in first chrithian seven If you're of the circumcised remain there and first chrithian is not he's talking about punishments And there's been a lot of scholarly work on this which I don't have time to go into but this is entirely irrelevant In the very chapter you cited first chrithian or ax 21 james agrees with paul in verse 25 So why does he say in 9 20? I put it to you though not myself being under the law He's talking about the punishments the same thing we see with the issue in Ephesians Yeah, I mean there's always an interpretation not a plain reading the plain reading is he says i'm not under the law He says I well if you talk about plain reading jesus died that's the plain reading of the gospels you're denying So if you want to talk about interpretation We've gone to the plain reading is a man seen after crucifixion with the wounds means he's alive Means he survived the plain reading of john 19 says he died All right, okay Do appreciate it joshua wooden strikes again. He says Don't worry. It's it's more related to what we talked about. He says john 858 says before abraham was iam So jesus never claimed to be god. I don't understand how you can say this without gymnastics Yeah, you go to psalm 92 in the sub two agent It says before the mountains were and then it says you are if that if you in the greek That is a perfect way to say what jesus is saying just in third person So jesus is saying it in first person in john 858 So again, psalm 92 in the sub two agent before the mountains were a couple of things and then you are and that Just this third person what we see a first person structure construction in john 858 You got it and folks we are close to 600 likes if we get to 600 likes I will put up a mildly insulting poll for postate profit and I really want to do this something Something to do with how much soy he consumes. I don't know by the way folks. Do you notice? I always love these new youtube features. You can like a person's super chat now So if you agree with their super chat, you can click like on it. How neat is that? this one coming in from Addison wire says true islam uk you seem let's see you see you're very charming very respectful And uh, they say I like you more than allie dawg for allie dawg. So it's like they say why I've got I've got no time I've got no time for allie dawg whatsoever.  What if he's watching? This one key to thanks for your super chat. Let me know if you had to attach a question Awesome. Can I respond to that very briefly go ahead? So the first first thing is asked for a postate profit I mean, you know, I'm also very happy james if you want to ever organize a debate with him on atheism or anything Most most happy to do so But the key thing I want to say about allie dawg is, you know, he espouses unaslaming views in my view In the akhmediya viewpoint in particular We do not believe that there is any worldly punishment for apostasy And this is a major fallacy that Muslims have got wrong in the modern day There is no documented evidence of the prophet Muhammad ever killing a single person for leaving the faith And the Quran makes it clear multiple times that a person can believe and then disbelieve and then believe and then disbelieve and then believe and then disbelieve The third time and the only punishment they all receive is the one in here after god So the Quran is absolutely clear that in obviously if you can believe and disbelieve three times Then that's obviously false if the punishment for death is For disbelief is death because you die the first time you wouldn't be able to believe and disbelieve again So, you know, there's so many arguments made like that and I really despise the way some Muslims unfortunately butcher the Quran And make it into a very hateful book when it is not as a book of which establishes peace in the world That's an actual fact the reality of this one You got it. This one coming in from Avery van zil says jesus allowed man born blind that he healed to worship him in john 9 Verse 38 then the man said lord, I believe and he worshiped him Yeah, I mean Yes, is that for me or for jet michael? I think they're saying like that the gospels are suggesting that jesus is god I think that's what they're trying to say Uh, that's the underlying message. You just have to read between the lines a little bit Yeah, there are instances where people try to bow down to him And he picked them up from the ground Where he told for example, there is the lady who who grabbed at the hem of his hem of his cloak for example But there aren't any These words we have to always go back to the original greek and look at what it means Sometimes these meanings can mean praise a person For example the word lord as has been pointed out by michael It was not just used just for jesus the word lord is often used for multiple figures in the bible and for multiple things But it's the same word that's also used for god So we have to ask the question did whether if people worship jesus spontaneously in the moment That's that's a separate question. I said something different. I said jesus never solicited worship He never said to any of his disciples bow down and worship me He always said bow down and worship the father and if there was no Difference between him and the father and the question is then why did he do that? You got it this one coming in from Go ahead mic. Go ahead. No, that's good. You got it. You say question for muslim The other is to hear they say hypothetically if the bible is true Does it concern you at all that you would in fact be an enemy of the actual quote unquote christ? I'm sorry. Can you say that again? I missed that If the bible is true, does it concern you at all that you would in fact be an enemy of the actual christ? No, it wouldn't and i'll tell you why because the old testament clearly states that god does not die It states that in multiple places.  Okay Well, well, let's see what we have here It's very clearly stated in in the old testament that god does not die So on the day of judgment, I suppose that's the question you're asking me when i'm presented for jesus with his Holds and his hands and his feet and he says why did you not accept my sacrifice for me? What answer will you give right? I'll say very cliff simply You said explicitly in the old testament that you don't die And then you go ahead and die and pretend that you're god Which one of my spit to believe I believe the one that came first I believe the one that was absolute. I believe the one that didn't indicate Other otherwise, right? I believe in the absolute statements that you made in the old testament So that's the answer i'm going to give to god But the question I have for you in actual fact and to the speaker Is that if you have violated the old testament statements, which is you were to take no gods for god beside the one Which is the first commandment What answer will you give to god When god says why did you not believe I could forgive you without atonement without punishment? Why did you not why did you worship and bow down before a man? Why did you worship before graven images? Why did you worship before statues of jesus? Why did you worship before all these things? That's the question that god will ask you i'm sure Where is the verse that says god cannot die?  Let me find one here that are ones for mike I don't know who this is for they say they Raised 174 says the jins convinced paul to ruin the original islamic christianity It did such a good job that we don't even have any sources or evidence they even existed I'm sorry They said the jins convinced paul There might want to if you explain jins for people if they're new convince paul to ruin the original islamic christianity I think they're being sarcastic, but i can't tell Okay I'm not sure let me i'm still trying to get up the old testament father does not die I've seen them i read them the other day, so i just want to get them out Um, let's see if we can get up. Um the jinn I mean, I don't think the word the question is really even worth answering in all honesty, but the jinn are basically Uh simply is a word in arabic, which means that which is hidden It does not necessarily mean spirits or genie or demons. It means that which is hidden So the word janna which is paradise comes from the word jinn because paradise is hidden You know the the the women women in society are often referred to as jinn in arabic because they are usually veiled And so they're hidden and so jinn simply refers usually when it says jinn and men in the quran It actually mainly refers to that class of society Which are above and beyond other other people like celebrities the the the rulers who are Beyond the site of the ordinary people and therefore they are hidden That's an actual fact the main meaning of jinn given in the quran So no the jinn didn't convince paul. It was only his Unfortunate, um, sorry spiritual state that made him a hypocrite and go against jesus's original messing So i've got some quotes from uh From the bible from the old testament that that god cannot die um Sorry, so here we go. Um Sorry, uh, I typed in the father. I meant the i meant this i mean god. Let me just bring it back up Go on to the next question. I'll get up for you You got it and in the meantime folks got to let you know that paul is doing well It's in the live chat right now. How much soy does posse profit consume per day? uh the The options range from one to two soylents Which is like a soy protein shake like on demand shake And all the way up to all the soy currently with 67 percent of the votes right now There are hundreds that have voted on that Here is paul amer says if jesus came to india Why was mohammed unaware of this? Um, so that's that's a great question. Um, i've got the quote now one timothy 616 god is the only one who Well god is the only one who never dies That's in the new testament that that is in the new testament. You're quite right. I do apologize I do have one from the old testament as well, which i'll get up in a minute I'm just struggling with doing it at the same time as everything because my internet's not very good And doesn't seem to be loading quickly. Um You mean, you know he's talking about the father there, right? Yeah, well, that's the problem You you you make rules for the father and then make different rules for the son and then say that they're the same person So that's that's to me as the father became human. They don't think the father became flesh So yeah, there is is a distinction No, well, well, I mean then they're not one if there is a distinction between them They're not one this is the fundamental problem that people christians face Is that if there is if there are three beings and they're actual one Then there is redundancy You don't need two of them because they're all the same If there is if there is a perfect quality between all of them Then there's redundancy and if there isn't a perfect quality between all of them and one is beneath the other Then it means the one beneath the other is not god So then you have a demi god. You don't actually have god So this is the problem This is the the tug of war and christianity between redundancy and hierarchy Which is so real quick I will just say I debunked all this in an interview I did on reason answers apologetics on the trinity and I show using philosophy of mind And basic logic. No, this is not a logical issue This makes perfect sense If you start using language from philosophy of mind because within philosophy of mind You can have multiple persons that are one being and it can be completely logically coherent I've also I also want to ask you a question So you mentioned the new testament that that quote from one Timothy is from the new testament But why is that not applicable? So one two three six sixteen says god is the only one who never dies So please could you square the circle with that for me because if you read the letter of first Timothy He's clearly talking about the father there. God is a title for the father throughout this entire book Okay, so different rules again for father and son and yet equality between them and equalness And that they're the same being and because that was the basis of you saying atonement The god forgives because he took the shame of having guilt upon himself But now you're saying that there are different rules for one or the other So they're obviously not the same thing if one can die and the other one can't that's a pretty big rule That's a pretty big rule to be different upon if what if my bro can die And I don't die It's not really reasonable to say where the same being does is it now Well, yeah, one is the extinction life One is the extinction of life and the other one is the continuation of life forever Yeah, because Jesus became human and then his body died and then he went back to his father The same thing that happened word when we die the father didn't become human. So he doesn't die Yeah, I know you I'm sorry But any logical rational mind is simply doesn't make sense because say the father became human didn't become human But the son became human is in itself to posit a fundamental difference between the two One took on weakness and earthly necessity and the other one was Was perfect for all time and didn't die and so one took on all the attributes Which are contrary to godhood and the other one didn't take on the Maintain the attributes of godhood and yet they're simultaneously the same being so again My interview this is multiple times again see the interview. This is not to debate But I cover that all in that interview I mentioned where it's all basically covered and using philosophy of mind This one coming in from do appreciate it. Gerald Anthony says ti true Islam in ua closing statement you pointed That you pointed out that ip is approaching the subject from a christian lens and you do it historically What sources support you a position? What sources support my position outside of the bible? Or in the bible I think they mean any at all Well, I mean I've gone through quite a lot. I mean I've gone through the bible So briefly in terms of extra biblical sources. I'll go through a few of those There's the hindu scripture which mentions jesus in 78 ad to 102 ad Maybe she missed that particular point I can show the slide again if she whispers or you're happy to james Where it basically says in hindu scriptures completely nothing to do with christian to islam That jesus that a person who was called isha the messiah isha mesi Who was born in a virgin called himself the son of god who was fair skin Who was persecuted in another land and fled to the land of kashmir Was in actual fact Whose religion was love truth and purity the heart is what he said these these characteristics only fit jesus And he was met with by king who was the king shalivana who only ruled from 78 ad to 102 ad And that's mentioned in the book bahavisia mahapurana, which is written in sanskrit got nothing to do with Islam nothing to do with christianity the only individual in human history who ever claimed to be born a virgin Was a son of god and was persecuted in that age Was jesus but what michael will say and i'll i'll preempt it if i may michael He'll say that that's got nothing to do with whether he died on the cross Because he could have died on the cross and then migrating gone to india just like the Mormons believe that he went to america to me It's very clear It's a contradiction of the bible and luke where he says he went up to heaven and ascended to heaven Um and that he's been sitting there on the right hand of god for eternity since then And to me it speaks of a man who is fulfilling isai 53, which is that he god shall prolong his days This is something that michael hasn't actually addressed and i would be grateful if michael could it says an isai 53 that You know god will prolong this person's days who is suffering the suffering servant and he shall see his seed Now when you say somebody's life will be prolonged it's self-evident That it doesn't mean he'll die and then his life will be prolonged because everybody gets an eternal life after death Okay, well i'll address it really quick prolonged beforehand. Yes, please Yeah, i mean as a 53 7 says he was like a lamb led to the slaughter refers to being cut off from the land of living in the Verse 8 so if you want to take that literally he was led to the slaughter He was slaughtered and he was cut off from the land of the living again These are typological prophecies the suffering servant is israel jesus fulfills that in a typological sense the same way he fulfills other Typological prophecies there's a whole discussion on this in craig blomberg's book the reliability of the gospels Uh john wedham also discussed this at times so again if we're going to take things literally we're just going to cherry pick But again, i'm going to go on what the first century sources say Jesus died resurrected and then ascended and even if even if the second two are wrong He still overwhelmingly says that he died multiple times So there's no first century sources says jesus went to india. So james There are anyway, there are but never mind the the james if i may there is a clear statement in the bible And the old testament as well as i've mentioned timothy mentions that god doesn't die Old testament also says same saint sarm 92 90 and then Cologne too before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world from everlasting to everlasting you are god Right from everlasting to everlasting what that means is you can't have an intermission in everlasting where you don't exist anymore because you're dead Okay, we're equivocating on the work dead because jesus didn't cease to exist when he died his body just died right um Again, so this is this is again more kind of word play i would say Where we call, you know, it's word play. It's basically, you know, it's something that paul did and actually paul pioneered this kind of Virtual reality world where jesus Inhib inhabitants multiple realms simultaneously, but only in the heads of christians Um, it doesn't there's no indication in the bible of any of that a plain reading of it indicates a man who is suffering But then it's interpreted that the man is dying, but the god part of him isn't Um, where they get that from I don't know really No, because the hypostatic union says that you know, would you die you don't go to existence your spirit goes on Where's the hypostatic union stated clearly by jesus? Again, it's Stated clearly by jesus.  It's always throughout there. He's clearly a man, but he's also god Well, can I just make this point which is that the quran for example multiple times make statements Which in which the prophet muhammad is described as his hand is the hand of god For example, if you read the buddhist literature buddha says that he is the representative god Some people he also makes very similar statements of iron the way the truth and the light He also makes very similar statements that he is to know him is to know god Now all messengers from god and all religions they all use this metaphorical language of total union with god It doesn't mean they are god It means pulling context from other in different cultures. I prefer to take the context of jesus's jewish culture Sorry jenny quick here. We've got a This one coming in from sorry james. We just can't help it That's no problem. This one from joshua wood in our her old pal. He says most used fallacy False equivalency and false dilemma. They say well done michael other side. Thanks for coming and it was a great debate Let's see. They say they they say hey, you're a strong debater So they're giving you some street cred jerald anthony says ti Oh, we got that one Let me just first one maybe Hmm True islam, maybe ti. Is that what she's referring to? Oh, yeah, that one I just realized that we had read that one, but let's get to this one from abri Thanks very much says you used a prophecy in isaah 53 about messiah It says he will die in verse nine. He was assigned a grave with the wicked and with the rich in his death Yeah, I mean that's that's again. I don't take that as Uh, people considered him to be dead people believed he was dead his disciples all fled everywhere Um, and this is why as I mentioned in my in my talk when jonah says that I am I would call to you from the land of the dead Everybody understood it to mean and most people perhaps other than michael understood it to mean that jonah was one foot in the grave And he was in the land of the dead in the same way that the daughter of jairus was uh thought to be dead People were mourning and waiting outside a room and jesus goes in there and what does he do? He says She is not dead. She is sleeping right So she was in a coma like state And he brought her out of it through his present through his holy touch So again, I don't see a problematic for me that is described as him having the tomb of the rich Uh, and the wicked in his death because that refers to what the people's perception of him was And this is also part of the meaning to be right risen from the dead and Going back a little bit to a separate point You know, we should also remember that the david, uh, if we're going back to the Perhaps if this comes up in a son of god question again, I'll bring this up. Actually, I don't want to Mix two topics Yeah, well, I was just remember verse verse seven says he's led to like land like a slaughter Verse eight says he was cut off from the land of the living not put not put in the grave verse nine says He was in death says he made his grave with the wicked and with the rich man in his death So and then right there. Yeah, this is metaphorical poetical language in the same way that joe Well, then so is the offspring aspect then it's no it's not because no because you can't what offspring and what how We're prolonging his days. How can you put on these days who dies? That's metaphorical language. It's metaphorical. No, no, no, you have to demonstrate the metaphor The metaphor is very clear that if people perceive him to be dead Then you can describe them as one who is as if he has died one who is dead This is why Jonah says I I was called upon you from the land of shale It doesn't mean that he in actual fact was in shale. It meant that he was in a state akin to death He was just gonna say whatever you want a metaphorical language I'm gonna say the same thing about whatever you say that just double standard except that I have a legitimate reason to say that forgive me This one coming in from Amelia says question for true Islam in john 1918 Who is the one in the middle that has been crucified in verse 30? He gave up his Ghost that's that's all they say I don't even understand the question perhaps my so in in the gospels It does say that he gave up his spirit gave up his ghost in the synoptics So it's basically a common term you would use to say somebody died And that's what basically every scholar would say about this. It refers him giving up the ghost I fully agree with you Michael. I'm you know, I I want to emphasize the point to the viewers Maybe they've come a bit later into this discussion. I don't deny that the gospel writer doesn't believe that he had died That's not That's and the gospel narrative is that he had died what I'm saying is that they are mistaken What I'm saying is is that these were interpolated back interpolated by a lot of the followers of paul You look at the gospel of thomas for example, it doesn't have this narrative There's lots of other gospels which are redacted from the bible In the council nicaea, which we haven't really gone into a touch to any of that But these four gospels are four gospels from a particular group's narrative. What about the nicaea? What about nicaea? Sorry, not not not counselling nicaea. There was another one. Sorry. Um, in which the Sorry, I do apologize. Um, and that was the one where Constantine accepted christianity So there were there were there were several councils in fact Not just one in which decisions were made as to which gospels keeping the bible or not And these were the ones which were of the group of paul saint paul And his group believed that jesus had died for the sins of mankind So it's not surprising that the gospels should give that view because but there are other gospels that do not give that view But they were thrown out for no good reason fundamentally on the fact that they were thrown out because they date to the second and third century Yeah, okay, so we can disagree on that and perhaps you can have another debate on that That's absolutely fine. But the point I want to make is that We're not disagreeing. I don't disagree with you that he said this says that he gave up the ghost and that the gospel Right believed that he came out from the dead. I don't disagree with that I'm saying is that the facts the events of the crucifixion have a different interpretation Which is that he had survived and that the narrative that he died Is not one which is evidence because when you look at a person post assassination attempt who is walking around with his wounds It means he is alive And that's what he's prayed for I'm working on a video which will be out in june called mark and i witness account were argued that marx source was peter And so this would be another chain of evidence and there's a lot of really good evidence for that So how was peter's come out of curiosity just perhaps you can explain to me now How is peter an eyewitness to anything when it says clearly in the gospels that all the disciples fled at the time of the crucifixion He's do i witness to the ministry is my point. Yeah, i witness Okay, so about the crucifixion and the crucifixion. No, that would be john the beloved disciple Who said he was at the cross there was he a disciple because it says all the disciples fled Yeah, all of his 12 disciples fled. I think that was john mark who became john the elder you can see luc vanda way's book Living footnotes on the gospels where he points out that that's most likely the john because there were multiple johns So richard bacham luc vanda way we argue this was john mark who was there not john the son is ebony So the strongest and most beloved disciples fled but the lower disciples who are newer they didn't flee Yeah Right that doesn't make much sense to me. But anyway, we that's a separate question This one coming in from unapologetic Apologetic says they didn't see a totally ripped apart body. They saw a glorified body when he rose Why would they be happy about a zombie like resurrection body? I'm confused.  I think you'd probably be pretty happy to see him This one from ozian talk says atheism won still not sure if jesus was crucified Apostate prophet says I wish all debaters were like tahir and mike not clowns like daniel and ap That was definitely a juicy debate But I've got to tell you folks if you haven't watched their recent debate It's worth watching daniel hookig to muslim skeptic against apostate prophet Well, there was no clowning around it was uh hot and heavy. It was a slobber knocker josh. It was amazing Says doctor you say water does not surround the lungs No, I never said that Yeah Hector says true islam should debate ip on what is better for mankind christianity or islam It could be a two versus one if he wants a fellow am I saying this right chic To assist shake Sorry, I'm not a shake in the first place. So getting a fellow shake would be even harder, but He says I take his kind point for calling me a shake is very kind of him Say they could bring shaky a booty. Is that a that's a person? I don't know who that is and nor will I bring him. I could never be a shake white people have no rhythm We don't know how to move our hips This one from obey with you. I'm with you there michael. I'm the same They say to tahrir. Why is jesus the second adam? He's the second adam because adam was born of a virgin too You got it. This one coming in from you appreciate it.   This is so delicious G All my ahmadi friends are probably looking at this killing themselves laughing right now Jesus is mentioned to have died in the Quran More than all other individuals put together There are 30 verses of the Quran which state that he is dead Well, ma'am other than illa rasul qad khalat min qabli herosol. Muhammad is only a messenger Verily the messengers before him passed away the immediately preceding messenger was Muhammad was jesus Chapter three verse 145. There are certainly verses i can give to you. Sorry. Is it three 155? I thought 145 But in in some in some Quran's where the bismillah is not counted the first verse you'll find is three one four four I mean jesus is mentioned in the Quran is having died more than literally anyone else Right multiple verses from every angle is described him as having died already So, you know, this is unfortunately a A misconception a lot of muslims have this misconception too So I don't blame your speaker. I don't mean in any way to offend her or him by laughing I wasn't laughing at the person. I was just I was just amused by the idea I would say that is a thousand times more reasonable than those traditional sunni idea that jesus Didn't die and there was a substitution. I completely agree. I actually think in some ways There's good reason in my view to believe that there's suddenly idea of substitution theories more absurd than It's I mean, I don't say it's more absurd in my view than that christian view But I mean it really gets up there with absurdity because in in a way it is because Like all the historical works say that a person named jesus was put on the cross and people saw him there So then to start arguing that oh no somebody else then that is actually an act of trickery on behalf of god For putting somebody else who looked like jesus there and also an act of idiocy on the part of people that they couldn't tell One person from another So i'm completely with you there, but this is for me. This is not basic Well, not for me. It's a fact. There's nowhere in the quran. The quran is completely against it The quran gives the soon theory very clearly as I've demonstrated and in actual fact I'll stop on because I've been talking too much, but in actual fact the The this is actually a christian idea which came into islam You see the christian idea of the ascension The christian idea of the ascension was brought into islam But they couldn't accept that jesus died on the cross because the quran is so clear that he didn't And so they got rid of they put the ascension prior to the crucifixion Does that make sense michael? The scholar speculated may be a gnostic idea the whole substitution idea, but that's very possibly This one coming in from do appreciate it auto says What would you say to the representatives of religions who don't believe in jesus's or muhammad's divinity?  So marmot wasn't divine Yeah, michael when you go first I would say Do I here's the thing about christian? We don't say who and who is not going to hell only god knows and only god can judge properly Like what he jesus says in john 941 and 1522 if i had not come They would not be guilty, but now that i've come they have no excuse so god judges everyone properly I cannot say somebody is part of the body of christ if they deny jesus's divinity I think that's very clearly taught in the bible you can see books like jesus among the gods by michael f bird for example We're putting jesus in his place by robert bowman jr. And at kamishevski If you understand the ancient jewish context jesus taught he was god over and over again by constantly citing old testament passages Doing things only god could do that the old testament says only god could do so there's just numerous references to that You've got it for me Muhammed was not god. We do not believe any god can be incarnate into any human form God is immaterial and beyond and beyond and beyond us entirely and can never die We also I would share very much with michael's View that we cannot condemn anyone to god the judgment is in the hands of god alone No human being can call another human being Hellbound in fact the prophet muhammad was explicit on this that this is actual in fact an act of attributing partners with god as if you are god So it's an actual fact of greater sin on your part than even Anything else that they could do This one coming in from do appreciate it Abri van zil says True islam you use prophecy in isaia 53 about the messiah It says he will die in verse 9. He was assigned a grave with the wicked and we got that one. Sorry. I've already read that Let me see. I think we're getting to the close to the bottom of the list abri sent another one They say what did jesus mean in john 10 17? The reason my father loves me is that I lay down my life only to take it up again 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down on my own accord says jesus Yeah, jesus is a full word for this reason the father loves me because I lay down my life that I may take it up again No one takes it for me, but I lay it down on my own accord I have authority to lay it down and I have authority to take it up again this charge I received from the father So this falls very much in line with the idea jesus died in rose and Menarchical trinitarianism which is the idea that jesus does have the authority to do these things because he is ontologically god As he does proceed from the father or is the god of the father If I may um james, of course There's nothing in that that you know indicates a death To lay down your life and be willing to lay down your life Is an act which any human being can do for another one if they see them in danger If you go and help somebody who is being mugged in a sense you have put your life We call it in english.  Um, is there any um any greek references where this phrase means not dead? Like any comparison to lay down your life? Yeah, I don't have that for me. I don't have that before me. I'm afraid okay You got it this one coming in front. I do appreciate it joshua wooden says Again He sips Why is there a poll about ap and sorry ap beat daniel? this one from Cheeky cheeky. I think they're saying is it maybe it's pronounced shaky. They say well done ap god bless you Lebel says who was adam's virgin mother, please Um, so the chronic view is that adam is not the first man The chronic view is adam is the first prophet of this cycle of humanity And that there have been many many cycles of humanity each cycle being seven thousand years long approximately And that the adam of our particular cycle Is the adam of our particular cycle and that there before before hundreds of thousands years millions of years There have been multiple cycles of humanity in that the pran says about jesus It says the case of adam in reference to the virgin birth in particular says the case of jesus is as the case with adam God said to him b and e was so the way in which jesus was produced through a virgin birth is also the chronic view on how adam was produced And you got one last thing adam is described in the pran as a caliph at all Are which means a caliph or a successor in the earth which means they were human beings who preceded him It says that they did not had not received divine revelation He was the first in the in this cycle of humanity to receive divine revelation to be appointed as a prophet You got it. Did I read this one? They say did the angel lie at matthew 28 7 then go quickly and tell his disciples quote He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into galley There you will see him Now I have told you Again risen from the place of the dead is how I would understand that and again The metaphorical language is not only in reference to his existence coming back from near death or a state Which was akin to death, but also his mission was resurrected.  It wasn't actually about killing him It was to prove that he was a curse of god So when he was risen it also means that his mission was risen because it was proven that he was not a curse of god That is a prayer in the garden of gethsemane was accepted by the prophecy of isiah 53 that he will see his day's lengthens and see his seed was fulfilled arc has a question for mike they say for Inspiring philosophy are any of the authors you quoted eyewitnesses and what proof do we have of that? Yeah, uh, john is an eyewitness Uh, you can check out craig blombards book on the reliability of the gospel of john Richard bachem jesus and the eyewitnesses There's a lot of evidence that john is an eyewitness. I'll be doing a video on that as well I'm gonna go do one on each gospel because um As well luke interviewed eyewitnesses as luke van de wey's worked shows as well as uh, john j peters Uh book on the gospel of luke. Uh, so there's a lot of really good evidence for this So yeah, I do think john was an eyewitness at the cross. It wasn't john the son is ebony in my view It was john mark who became john the elder You got it this one coming in from Joshua wooden says you said you hung on a tree Means false prophet as he is accursed and I mean no offense You both did well even knew james Thank you and in terms of you saying that jesus was hung on a tree means that he was a false prophet I'll give you a chance to respond to that to here So what I meant was that it says in the it says in the bible and deutronomy as I quoted that he who is hung on the Wood is a cursed of god and a cursed obviously cannot be a prophet of god and be a cursed To be a cursed is an attribute of satan as I've mentioned It means to be put out of the love of god put away from the love of god Put a big big put away a love from god altogether And so you cannot say that a prophet who speaks in god's name and is his messenger and emissary and representative Is necessarily going is going to be a curse Because how can a person select somebody as their representative and yet that representative be a cursed be put away from them by definition That person is their representative and therefore near them You got it. Thanks very much for your question This one coming in from jason v says assuming jesus got off across alive How likely is it that he walked blocks on pierced feet? Isn't it more likely that jesus would say ouch instead of Quote my lord when thomas touched him Yeah, and it also says that jesus had nail marks in his hands It's just it'd be kind of ad hoc to say that it appears this feat that would just be expected given the cultural context and what we hear about it He could have been on a he could have been on a meal He could have been on a horse I mean, there's quite a lot of possibilities here that we are not really Possibility isn't probably but it's actually I find I still find it Well, I mean if you can talk about probabilities and possibilities You should really really think about resurrecting from the dead is whether it's a possibility or not I mean it's very again I come out is very strange to me that somehow a person walking on a mule with injured feet is somehow Extraordinary, but a person coming back from the dead. Well, that sounds like evidence-based medicine to me Well, I mean, I say it was a miracle that jesus came back. I don't say he naturally came back I say it's naturally unlikely that you've been able to walk on pierced feet This one coming in from do appreciate it truth finder says true islam The Koran said jesus was never killed nor crucified Crucifixion means hanging someone on a pole jesus ever hanged on the cross, but didn't die That false fies either the Koran or your argument Sorry james, can you explain that for me the other feelings on this question? I think he's appealing to sewer four So I think I think what they what I meant to say is I misread it too. They say if jesus Oh No, maybe I did get that right if jesus ever hanged on the cross, but didn't die that false fies either the Koran or your argument No, it doesn't because as I've shown repeatedly I think a lot of the people haven't actually seen my presentation Perhaps the Koran supports the swoon theory explicitly states They did not kill him through crucifixion nor was he killed through a spear or through any other means But he was made to appear to them as one like that So it means that he appeared to them as though he was dead on the cross Which means he was not dead on the cross, but he looked like it which is a swoon theory You got it this one from yasha weta king says the disciples only fled from the garden not the cross Well, no, he was abandoned for his crucifixion and then you have the gospel of john You have the women at the at the cross none of the 12 were there I would say it's john mark who shows up there. He takes jesus into it He takes jesus mother into his home and then she's there with him until Until she dies and I would say that's happening in acts 1212 where it's now mary is now called the mother of john mark And so that that would be the thing I think so no, I don't think the 12 were there, but there were other disciples like the women You got it This one coming in from do appreciate it Joshua wooden says paul a hypocrite He follows jewish law to guide them to christ So they are not in bondage to the law law is good christ is better and is freedom Oh, I read out the specific wording of one carinthians where he says the law. I'm not bound by the law Which is completely contradictory to what james says, which is the jews who accept jews are bound by the law That was the point I was making and then he publicly repented of modern day christian doctrines You got it and this one coming in from do appreciate it Grace 174 says the two giant angels carried him carried him out of the tomb on their shoulders To present him to everyone as having survived the crucifixion Right, either of you know what they're talking about Nobody okay this one coming in from Joshua wooden says slander is bad however Uh true islam uk Is a stronger debater than tick tock dan don't know who tick tock dan is do you guys know who tick tock dan is I know who he's talking about but let's not talk about it this one coming in from carol kinser says Question for ip if allowed if I didn't receive the holy spirit was I ever really a christian? If you didn't receive the holy spirit when you ever christian will know because But I mean anyone who asked for the holy spirit gets the holy spirit in jesus's name So if you never had the holy spirit, which would be unlikely if you actually were a professing christian, then No, I don't I don't see how that follows. So I'd have to know more of the context of what the question specifically is around You got it and thanks all over cat well for gifting those memberships in the chat folks We do have Memberships for the channel if you haven't yet check those out One of the coolest things about any membership is that if we ever put slow mode on for the live chat Because for example today we have over a thousand speed over a thousand viewers at one point Is slow mode just to make sure that the moderators can basically weed out anything that's against youtube terms of service but if you have a channel membership at modern day debate you can actually Have immunity to slow mode and you can type in whatever weird stuff you want as fast as you want Now if it goes against, you know, tos we still have to you know, delete it But nonetheless it'll at least make it harder for the mods But what to say folks. Thank you so much for being with us our guests are linked in the description Highly encourage you check out their links the the debaters are the lifeblood of the channel folks They make this fun. They make this a lively place here at modern day debates So do check out both inspiring philosophy and true islam uk's links in the description box And that includes if you're listening later on the podcast All of our debates are uploaded to the podcast within 24 hours being live on youtube At the podcast description box you can find those links as well So i want to say huge. Thank you to our guests true islam uk and mike jones. It's very philosophy. It's been a true pleasure to have you guys Yeah, thank you. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you very much james. I've really enjoyed myself and michael as well I really appreciate your time and Your on your energy Yeah, I think you're a very respectful guy enjoyed the conversation That was amazing now folks I'll be back in just a moment with a post credits scene letting you know Coming debates and greeting you in the old live chat. So stick around And with that want to say one last thanks to our guests. I'll be back in just a few moments. Thanks everybody stick around Amazing want to say folks. Thanks so much for being with us tonight If it's your first time here at modern day debate Want to let you know first hit that subscribe button We have many more debates coming up and you don't want to miss out on those debates In particular you might be wondering you're like, well, what debates though james? I'm curious. Well This sunday actually whether or not islam is it's whether or not the quran is scientific You don't want to miss that that's going to be ozian and nadir. Ahmed debating one on one That's this sunday night. So if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button We have many more debates coming up in addition You may have seen at the bottom left of your screen. I'll show you guys this in just a moment We have indeed a sponsor for this debate because you might be wondering well, who's your sponsor james? What are you talking about? What's the sponsor? Well, what I'm saying is we have through modern day debate a deal with visible wireless In particular for every person that signs up for visible wireless, which is I will show you It's actually linked in the description box as well as I'm going to pin it in the old live chat if you happen to Use the visible wireless link you can get unlimited data and unlimited minutes and unlimited stacks or Only 20 bucks a month. You guys really it's a great deal If you are paying too much for your wireless, which odds are good that you may be because wireless Can be expensive. I highly encourage you check out that link in the description box Or I'm going to pin that in the live chat in just a moment. I gotta tell you folks save your money There are a lot of better things that you can spend your money on rather than wireless service for your phone And one way of saving money is using that link in the description box for the first 12 months. It's just 20 bucks a month You guys get a better deal than I get so for me I pay $25 a month and eventually after after the first year it's $25 a month But for the first month for the first year in fact, I didn't even get this for my first year. It's just 20 bucks a month crazy cheap Now if you're like me I'm big on Being thrifty being clever because I'm like, hey, why would I want to spend money on things that I don't need to When I can use them for things that I like for example, I don't know if you noticed me drinking this anw diet root beer during this debate not a sponsor not an affiliate I'll contact. I'll try to get a link from them so we could but I gotta tell you I like spending my money on diet soda and before you warn me about how diet soda will kill me I've got to tell you Check out that link from visible wireless. Let me pull that up on screen so you can see it again as You can save your money instead of spending Whatever much you're spending let's say even wi-fi because let's say you're using wi-fi at your place and you're like, well I use wi-fi at my house.  Whatever it is You could just say hey, I'm gonna come home when I pick up my little laptop like so right here I've got my laptop You can see it's hard to see because of my little blue the green screen effect. Yeah, there it is You can see it.  Whatever it is I highly encourage you check out the link from visible wireless. I'm going to pin that at the top of the chat And I've got to tell you First thanks for coming by I see you there in the old live chat. Hamza. Ken. I see you there Thanks Batman Inc for being with us Glad to see you there sim kia happy to have you with us Folks i've got to tell you we're excited about the future We really are you've got a lot of big stuff. We're planning here at modern day debate I just met someone last week on zoom to talk about potential collaboration And we're really excited like there are just some big things that we're talking about with modern day debate And big things that i'm learning because I always want to learn I want to say hey How can we make modern day debate better? We're always trying to develop ourselves grow refine how we do things Have a better channel overall. I want to say cool thing is during the stream We actually crossed over from 175 to 176 thousand subscribers So I want to say thank you guys for your support. Seriously. It means More than you know We are excited Join us while we are small. This is just the beginning of our story at modern day debate We are providing a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field A lot of people will say Hey I'm all about fairness I'm all about I want everybody to have their shot to make their case. I'm neutral. You know, I'm unbiased They talk they talk but when it comes to walking the walk modern day debate Actually does it you can check out our links. We have debates on you name it whether or not big foot exists We have controversial debates on politics and people taking positions that like It's like pushing against the boundaries of youtube in terms of to s sometimes This isn't your grandma's debate channel. You know this folks if you're new here now, you know it because sometimes we do have topics that are pushing the envelope Not for the sake of pushing the envelope but because we want to walk the walk and Actually give everybody a fair chance even those flat earthers. I tell you what I gotta tell you I got a lot of friends That are flat earthers. I got a lot of friends that are globe earthers If you're like me, you think the planet is shaped like a banana. I don't know whatever you are We hope you feel welcome. We really do want to give everybody a fair shot So hey you say we're gonna let a thousand flowers bloom. We're gonna let the chips fall where they may We are going to have a truly fair debate channel and I can tell you folks Thanks to people like you and all of your support I can see the shares I check the analytics often the amounts of shares that we get on our videos is huge Thanks to people like you sharing it with friends who maybe you have a friend who likes a similar topic Because people usually are friends with people have common interests This is a great way of helping modern day debate Splanned expand its fair platform. You can share it with a friend or maybe a group of friends online Maybe you've got a reddit or you've got a twitter thread that you're a part of whatever it is You can share it there and we are excited because modern day debate is a barreling locomotive going down the tracks And no matter how many hurdles are in front of us We are just going to keep crushing them just keep going through them as this like I said is just the beginning of our Story modern day debate is going to do big things Join us as we are small Because someday we're going to look back at this stream and we're going to say wow That was back when modern day debate had crossed over 175 to 176 thousand subscribers Man, we're small back then compared to today. We are looking forward to a bright future We want to say thank you for being a part of that. Thank you for making this Exciting day crossing over to 176 thousand Appreciate that all over catwall in the live chat says before modern day debate I was a deplorable street urchin with no future prospects now I'm a despicable street urchin with a hobby jk. Love what you do james. Thanks all over for your support huge supporter long time supporter all over has been here For I think about five years like I think he's been with us since the very start I think he was here with us like when modern day debate really got its big Kind of like big first step. I don't know if you guys know what i'm talking about Uh, a lot of people are like You don't know that modern day debate to a large degree Was framed on A previous channel called non sequitur show now They would have a lot of interviews and stuff too and we were like well, we're gonna have it where it's just like cure debates It's going to be like literally the only way a position is presented on the channel as if there's an opposing side in the debate as well We wanted it that way and we had come from a channel like we're an adaptation of a channel called the non sequitur show That was also a live show that oftentimes did debates like it was common that they would do them So we do want to say uh, if you remember that if you've been around with us for that long That's about as long as it goes because I would say at that point we were around for maybe like That was like our eighth month when I remember when the non sequitur show Like kind of collapsed And what happened was people are like, whoa, it just collapsed and there's a fight and then we hosted a debate Interestingly, there's I can tell you this from having gone from, you know Uh, zero subscribers who were now we're at 176,000 And also having been in the youtube space for years watching other creators because I'm a modern day debate is such a it's central node and a huge network of people because Modern day debate depends on other people coming on right so I have watched many youtubers and they're you could say careers and Seeing that it's extremely rare for a youtuber to Start small and then boom just explode overnight that virtually never happens. There's only one person that's happened with That was because uh, alex stein had a twitter video that went viral. It got millions of views That was pretty like overnight type of success, but that's one out of like Everybody like all of the creators that we've had on here If you think of people like david wood that at one point had like 750,000 subs at his channel If you think about destiny who's got almost 750,000 subs now at his channel If you think about people like ap who's got like what 350,000 Is that all of those people it was incremental growth like these small steps and so We've had many small steps But one of our biggest steps probably the biggest step but nonetheless one of many many steps was then modern day debate We hosted a debate on the topic of the non sequitur show having this Basically battle this fight between their two hosts and steve Bless his heart and i'm actually meaning that sincerely and like not like a southern sarcastic thing steve mccray He at one point said hey He kind of knew that non sequitur show was like taking a beating uh and that basically like yeah by that i mean People were upset with kyle who was still in control of the non sequitur show And so steve mccray was like hey Everybody go subscribe to modern day debate follow them instead kind of what steve said and we had like 1500 subs Which a channel at our size at that time that was just ginormous and I was also like one of the biggest growth days We've ever had period. I think that was actually the biggest one still so but nonetheless And let's look at this if you do the math 1500 And that's out of 176,000 subs we have now That was only let's multiply it by 100 That was only 0.85 percent of our subs. So our biggest leap No, this is like youtube generally works like this our biggest leap didn't even get us one percent Like our biggest like single day was like 1500 subs in a single day We didn't even get us one percent that just shows you how incremental youtube is it really is a game of patience consistency Stick toitiveness, whatever you want to call it, but we want to say thank you for being here with us and supporting us It's just like a lot of things in life. It's like being fit like being active being like Strong or whatever it is that your goal is there. It's like personal finance. Oh my gosh personal finance Generally is that in my experience like It's just a matter of saving a little by little when you you know as much as you can And one way of saving is visible wireless guy said folks. What are you doing? I mean You could save not only because let's say you have Unlimited data text and calls plus unlimited hotspot data Which is a good deal. Let's say you got it and it's like 30 you're like, ah, james. Yeah, I'm at mint mobile I've got that for 35 or 30 bucks. Hey good for you But I mean you can save $10 a month If you switch over to visible Using our referral link.  Let's do the math 65 times 12 is 780 bucks Like that's a good chunk of cash. You can save just with this single switch It's amazing. So got to tell you I want to say thanks for being with us though I see they're in the old live chat. I want to say hello to you And want to say thank you guys for all of your support So first pete. I see you there in the old live chat. Thanks for your support Joshua, thanks for your being with us. Thanks for your super chat there. I see that swampy poobs Hughes good to see you maricio chuman babadilla. Thanks for coming by Appreciate your being with us, buddy. He's actually you guys if you guys see maricio in the chat Uh, give him a huge prop give him a huge thanks a huge like hey way to go maricio Because maricio has transformed this channel So you guys I don't know if you've noticed but modern a debate has had like monstrous growth In the last few months a big reason for that Is and also like I'd say over the last year actually we've had like oh man How many subs did we gain in the last year? Let me look this up really quick Is that in the last 12 months? Uh, this is way more than we knew the last year has been like our biggest growth year We had 83 000 subscribers just in the last 12 months. So that just shows you like prior to that I think we usually got like 30 000 on average a year maricio was a big reason for that Credit to others as well, but I want to say maricio has been making us these epic shorts That have done so well in the algorithm and introduced so many new people to modern a debate So huge credit maricio fantastic, man You've done so well and I'm so grateful for all your help That 85 was like just crazy that modern day debate has just transformed in the last year Echo I see you there in the old live chat. Thanks for being with us sim Hla, thanks for being with us. I think now I actually pronounced it right. Thanks for your patience with me My sister's keeper. Good to see you there again. Glad to have back. Mr. Kreenen Thanks for coming by anathema. Good to have you as well as hannah anderson Hurt and jungle jargon. Good to see you another another long time viewer jungle jargon and Exo music. Thanks for coming by. I see you there in the old live chat Hans Sevensson. Thanks for coming by. Glad to have you with us level earth. Thanks for dropping in Level earth says the flat earth got this channel to where it is. Just remember that Thanks for that. That's interesting Jerry Johnson says Let's see. Glad to have you here. Jerry cat. Thanks for coming by As well as Shloresh Fathi. Am I saying it right? Glad to have you with us. Alex Stirling. Glad to have you here As well as contrarian 420. Happy to have you with us. I appreciate you And let's see here Leo Whitmer. Glad to have you here. His message. Happy to have you with us. Kevin Howell. Thanks for being here Jerry Johnson. Glad to have you quick and happy to have you here. Chad dad. Thanks for dropping in Want to say thanks everybody I'm gonna let you go in just a moment as I'm gonna rest a little bit I'm gonna see I can't I felt like I thought I heard thunder. Is that supposed to be rain on the According to the weather forecast, but I don't know I could have sworn I heard thunder and wind I want to say thanks for coming by You guys make this fun. Thanks for all your support of modern day debate. It means more than you know We're excited about the future next debate this Sunday So that's less than 48 hours away If you haven't yet hit that subscribe button as you don't want to miss the debates that are coming out at this channel Because it's gonna be amazing I want to say thanks everybody. Love you. Keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and we'll see you at the next debate