Record to the cloud. What is this cloud thing anyway? So this is a an OGM special call about strategic issues which we're defining right now on April 2nd 2021. Go ahead Pete. So I was I guess I was the one on yesterday's call saying okay let's just have a call let's get it started. The thing that I am bringing to the to this organization this quest is just getting started energy. This actually won't be my quest. I'm interested in the topic and and I think it's super important but I just want to make sure that we got something started. So I can also provide a little bit of support around thanks Matt for starting the channel on matter most but I can help people get into matter most. I can help people you know we got the zoom together thanks Jerry. We'll start some sections on the wiki and wherever else we need to so I can help do that. So the question that Doug just had for us was you know so what what is this what are we talking about? It was Matt who captured it as food insecurity and regenerative ag. I would say food security rather than food insecurity but I actually like the insecurity the the the urgency of saying that you know people are insecure right now I think is also attractive to me. So I would like to hear a little bit more I guess so I so there's we'll sort out into you know maybe we need two quests maybe we need food a food quest and a regenerative ag quest maybe maybe it's all one maybe soil health is in there. I was the the thing I was captured by yesterday was Ken actually Ken talking about I think mostly he was talking about climate maybe it's Ken and Gil climate eventualities and Klaus thanks also for your posts on that you know we're we're in deep duty right now on climate and then things outside of that so I don't know which of those are attractive to this group I think they're all important and we need to kind of figure out who's who's interested in what maybe Klaus you're the next person to talk. Yeah I just came off a call with the business climate leaders team working on this webinar we're planning for about mid-May and the way we decided to frame it was agricultural and land use systems for carbon sequestration and ecosystem services so there are there are two components on this carbon sequestration the other one is ecosystem services when the soil gets enriched with carbon you know it improves its water retention it creates biodiversity so there are there are ecosystem services that are being provided by doing the same thing you know by sequestering through the sequestration of carbon into soil we are enriching nature in a holistic manner so ecosystem services is as important as carbon sequestration. So I'm concerned that the way this is being framed supports silos rather than a broad interdisciplinary discussion and I just want to frame this from an OGM perspective for second because there's there's two oversimplified there's two different ways of looking at this call one of them is that Klaus is here as a sort of a participant in and a client OGM and we're looking specifically at Klaus's activities and how to further them the other framing which I think is more toward Doug what you're looking at and and kind of what I'm thinking of from the OGM perspective is climate change and soil fertility and regenerative agriculture are probably top burner for world issues and that includes for a lot of members of OGM how do we spark a conversation around that entire subject and those to me are completely related of course but they're very different framings of this conversation and I just want to understand which one we're in because if we're in the bigger one then Doug what you just said is like where we should begin heading in systems directions if we're in the how do we help Klaus framing then I think we unpack a whole series of other questions and I just want to know which call we all think we're in well I would suggest what Doug is saying so the way we we will frame this discussion and we're going to broadly advertise this across multiple platforms is we have a soil scientist is the chief science officer of the soil health institute to talk about soil the capacity of soil to hold carbon how this all works and why it's so important then we are talking to a farmer who has a 13,000 acre fully regenerative organic farm working without chemical inputs and and how how he has has restructured his farm and the difficulty he may have getting how he's getting into the market because in order to farm regeneratively you need to have a market to sell into and then we are in the process of inviting someone from Harvard the menus of change initiative which is now an anticipatory effort to change the menus that the catering industry is using to to engage with regenerative farmers so so so we are we are presenting a systems view and and one reason why we want to bring Harvard into the picture is that we don't want to make this a bummer negative kind of thing where people think it's all hopeless it's beyond beyond health and so please and and give and give give give hope you know tool for personal engagement and and and and and help people to see here's something I can do you know to leave it on a positive note so to go back to where this started yesterday I suggested that we needed a kind of pretend client in order to test how our process works the idea of starting out with a real client seems to me really difficult because we're going to be too cautious I think thanks Doug I don't have that concern because at least from my perspective OGM has had several clients already has has ongoing clients or ongoing projects kind of like this including CSC, flotilla, massive wiki and me and my brain and free jerry's brain at least I think there's probably some more so we're we're used to doing this spinning up things we're used to getting groups going we're used to you know getting some infrastructure under them as as a bit of a team at least it's not it's not widespread in OGM yet but there is a you know there's a group of people who do this already so I don't feel like we'll be scared to take action or do decisive things or make you know decisive different changes that we need to I I do worry that we I I think class as an OGM client is an interesting perspective I think maybe also just thinking of you know the earth as a as a client and there's something around climate change and regenerative ag and soil health and all that maybe that's an approach I'm not sure I'm not sure which yet and one of the I mean one of the interesting conversations that could be had in the space sort of at the strategy level is there are many ways of engaging in the nexus of issues here whether it's specifically regenerative ag and soil fertility and all that or other interventions for climate change about albedo management and God knows what and then there's what's more appealing the crisis is we're all doomed the crisis that is at hand or hey here's some nifty ways of fixing things that don't hurt anybody in fact make make money and all of that and I think there's a there's a space here of approaches and one of the things that I think but I'm not sure it would be helpful to you Klaus is exploring that space a little bit in the context of the things that you're after and one of the things that I think that OGM broadly would be interested in is understanding that space and seeing like where we play how how do we help you know across the space and a piece of what I think OGM is thirsty for is a conversation about the the whole climate change ecosystem disaster ball of axe go ahead John okay so a couple of trade-offs here normally a client I get I think I get point that if you have a client in the classic consulting sense a paying client that does drastically restrict your your risk assessment about the kind of things that you consider I'm not sure that that applies in the case of OGM clients or in the case of Klaus because my understanding is this is a pro bono relationship at this point it might might turn into something else later but as long as it's a pro bono relationship that frees us up to consider more riskier and even potentially the things that the client has told us they don't want you know but we can still examine them objectively and say well does it make sense to us even if it doesn't make sense to the client so that's number one another interesting trade-off here is um I mean this is an extraordinary group I'm in a lot of groups I've been in a lot of groups um we're we're pretty near the when I say we I don't mean me personally I'm talking about you know the the the the you know Jerry and and Pete and you know Doug I mean you know we got some extraordinary research power here and brain power and even so whenever you take on a problem there's a lot of work that is basically you know dull I mean there's like making the connection setting up the infrastructure figuring out who the people are making the contact with those people it sounds to me I could be wrong but it sounds to me like Klaus has done a lot of that work and therefore we OGM wouldn't have to go over that same territory which is we would if we were going to just say okay let's look at drawdown let's figure out what's the best way for us to intervene and let's go there so it's just just considerations I don't have an absolute yes no recommendation I'm just I'm just articulating the considerations okay thanks John thanks John and I think part of what's what's important than useful and attractive here is that Klaus has done an enormous amount of spade work has a really strong point of view and has completely working relationships with important groups around the world that are busy doing this work so all of that is fabulous and and and I think we're trying to figure out how do we connect into what you've created Klaus and be of help I mean that that's the simplest way and then I'll add that I'm using the word client in the spirit of one of my mentors Russ A. Klaus who would talk about who is the client of the system doesn't usually mean who is the paying client but who is actually sort of who are you really trying to serve here here I think we're trying to serve humanity want to go ahead Pete yeah I yeah so so maybe to back up and follow on from what you were saying Jerry one of the purposes of this call and not necessarily the only one but one of the purposes of this call is to kind of offer OGM as kind of a consulting service that is able to help spin up organizations and it seems like there's a hole in the world where you know there's Klaus and some other people working on on whatever you think is most important so I think part of this call is to offer the support of OGM in just instantiating that project and getting it going if that's of help so then you know in a way Klaus we're offering our services and then you you would say yeah I want to be a client of that and like Jerry said we don't mean client in a paying sense we mean client in the sense of somebody who is we're helping being of service to yeah and I could imagine and I hope this doesn't complicate things but I could imagine there being an OGM earth stewards guild that is a loose organization of people who give a shit about these issues who are busy trying to organize as that to help you and other projects that are parallel to yours that that are tackling different parts of this which is like mitigation strategies and you know solar albedo and other other you know ocean sprinkling iron filings in the ocean god forbid and and understanding how those resources work and who shows up and how they can help is like a key piece of this yeah I have been uh contacted by a group of consultants who are working on a bloodshed plan and what they what they want to do is appeal for like a 350 million dollar client to to develop a national consultancy where they insert change makers into across the country for working on very specific change initiatives and so I participated in a couple of their meetings and then left because I think they were too unclear about what exactly they wanted to accomplish so they they were putting an infrastructure together that made a lot of sense to me I suggested that they should focus on an innovations brokerage concept where you in where you insert innovation innovations agricultural innovation systems brokers to bring together uh the knowledge required to develop local community food systems and so then so they re contacted me and uh so so yeah so I'm going to put into the chat the name of the guy who who is on point there and I told him I mean that was just a couple of days ago I told him what we're doing here in OGM and he thought that would be a very logical connection to make you know where they are building this they are intending to build this organizational frame and uh but they don't really have content you know and that that was my criticism how do you apply for grant money unless you have a real clear plan what the outcome is but they're very conscious about the severity of our situation and that this does require a mobilization effort and that's the that's the way they suggested to go about it so I thought the the core principle of what they have in mind uh makes sense but um they are they are content deficient so so um that would be an implement a practical implementation plan so I'm trying to imagine class your network of people and whether they're open to discussions around things that tend to be hidden like do we assume growth as a goal do we assume capital as a framework uh is that network of people comfortable discussing those issues yeah I'm so they just wanted he just contacted me and actually this morning trying to hook me back into the discussion uh and asked me to do a presentation to their group but they're basically chemical engineers you know who who think that uh who are really focused on the energy systems and I'm trying to and so so I now explained to me this you know there's only so much you can do with the energy systems uh unless uh you know then just you'll you'll fix this elephant in the room which is the declaration of the ecosystem first and uh so so they may be coming around to the conclusion that there's indeed this is the low-hanging fruit uh to shift community-level food systems into a regenerative format focused on food sovereignty on a local basis um and so these concepts so I thought maybe there is some uh maybe there is some room to to go on this so two thoughts on that one is that this feels like a really specific OGME kind of question which is how to convince a bunch of engineers to broaden their scope on the problem and how to how to then evolve the the framing so that it includes the the pieces that you're talking about and the second thought I am like we should connect Judy to him immediately because she's from the American Chemical Society they speak the same language I'm pretty sure and she might be able to help build some bridges are you know right away and I'm just projecting here but but like I looked at his bio and I'm like Judy boom they have a pretty big team in place they have uh 40 some guys and there's some very senior people a couple of them coming from the military complex um they know how to I mean they we need 350 million dollars okay that's a lot of money but they are used to writing grants and and uh and if they are comfortable engaging government you know to to fund uh such large scale projects so that there may be something there class I wonder if you needed a a team of people doing something or not well um I mean I do I mean the business climate leaders just assigned me uh full-time consultants and a marketing person to develop this webinar so you have different pockets you know that um that engage things but um yeah I mean I I'm I'm not sure what my role would be um other than other than being you know a technical specialist supporter I mean I'm a project manager I've done large-scale projects uh you know so um the organizational frame is unclear to me um I think it is sort of evolving as we speak to use to use kind of business terminology which is kind of the wrong to terminology but um I I can imagine you pretty easily as as more or less CEO of you know a five or ten or twenty or fifty person kind of organization where the CEO is kind of figurehead for what the organization is doing and is able able to speak eloquently about what's going on and serves as kind of the visionary leader for maybe an operations person who's actually doing the work um of you know getting a team to do stuff you know um spinning out innovation centers or educational efforts or whatever right so I know you probably don't want you've probably graduated out being that that CEO role but you know it's when you speak in the the meetings you know the Thursday meetings everyone pays attention and it's like Klaus is saying something really important and how can we help him is it's kind of the the vibe that that I think people go through so I think you can take advantage of that if you want and if you don't that's fine too I mean honestly I would um I'm I'm passionately engaged uh I have no ambitions of any sort um I would uh um I mean I would take any role that you think is uh most helpful you know to to um to develop an organizational frame that advances us um so this so just to say it then I think what we need is somebody with ambitions yeah that's probably true and you know I I have what I'm saying that there is a there is something about ambition maybe the context that that I was framing here is different from what you are thinking Peter I I'm not uh wanting to push myself out uh into a leadership role if that's not the right thing to do I think it's the right thing to do so then the question is you know leadership going where's the leadership going and I I think it's totally fine I I understand well maybe this is presumptuous I understand you used to be kind of retired but also super passionate about making the world a better place for people who who are going to you know now and later come come later so so it seems to me that so there's some kind of ambition somebody needs to say and the best way to do it uh is you know x y z some kind of um there's there's stuff that you know that needs to be operationalized that I'm not sure that anybody else has captured it in one place so what is that opera opera opera operationalization you know what you know um not that we have 30 or 100 or 1000 people here but if we could start an organization that had you know two people 10 people 50 people 1000 people what would that organization do and where would it go and what should it be doing what's the most important thing for it to do a lot of people even in ogm right now it's a fairly small organization a lot of people want to help and just don't know how to how to help so if you give them a framework if you can give them us a pot of stone soup and say you know all the all the vegetables and stuff that you're carrying around if we put it together in the pot we could have soup you know that's kind of where there's a lot of people who need you know direction they need something they need a place to go yeah well if you would place the word ambition with motivation then that would be yeah exactly and pete i'm just mindful mindful of the time i think you needed to bounce i think thank you jerry it turned out that in real time it got cancelled uh or rescheduled so oh hot damn here for another half hour awesome thanks jerry so so motivation for example the idea to to uh catch up with tom who is passionately motivated but they're also stumbling around you know not really understanding then they know the urgency of the moment they want to engage big time and do something big and move something around um but they don't have the direction and the the uh the support structure in place to really know what they're doing now if we combine that then then and i totally uh um i was sort of disappointed that i couldn't persuade them earlier to uh and when i left the call i was saying look if you change your mind and you're willing to look at this from putting in an innovations capacity you know on a community-based level i'm back in i think that has legs i mean that would have potential to really uh to really create an organization yes jerry so so the key two words that popped out of what you just said were stumbling around and um there are lots of entities that have really great intentions and are building big projects some of those groups are just like really efficient that's sucking money out of grant pools and they're organizing themselves to do something that they feel good about but and and will bring a lot of money into the thing some of those have actually figured things out and might change the world and then there there's sort of others that are out like high functioning groups that that are doing stuff in the world that and my my my tendency here is to do a radar scan and define the high functioning groups and then figure out how to turbocharge what they're doing and to worry less about a group that doesn't feel like it's going to you know get off the ground and i think i think you your instinct to walk away and say hey when you guys fix this you know call me back was was terrific and i think that like going where the where the where things are breaking through and being helpful i think is uh maybe important for all of us looking at where we spend our time so i mean so that's one of the things i'm my my instinct to do is if it were possible is to just do a welcome mind meld with you class and download a map of the groups that you're involved in where they're pointing and and what you think you know and sort of needs and wants kind of kind of a mapping analysis of that uh but that may not be possible and necessary go ahead Doug well i think what you just said would be very helpful to do that kind of map and that could lead to broader questions uh i certainly well i'm feeling a little bit like i'm from mars at the moment and and alien to the some of the conversation i was reading the biden infrastructure program yesterday and buried in it there's language we've got to do all this in order to be more competitive more competitive with who uh if you're competitive that implies winners and losers we can't afford winners and losers we need a broader game plan than that so when it comes to classes project there are questions that i have that would be very important to me and that is to what extent are we going to be providing a game plan for agribusiness uh and big corporations and major finance uh certainly uh the money that's being spent in the world right now to buy land is huge and it's all towards concentration of profit and power so the question is where does claus's network fit into that and i think the mapping would be a way to allow us to surface those questions and staying together in the same conversation totally agree thank you welcome to the conversation mark you're stepped into the flowing stream it's so i wonder is just just brainstorming is there a place here there's a nascent mapping guild within our preview um do we approach them and ask if they want to map climate change so so there's a difference to me between mapping climate change and mapping claus's and engagements and involvements and his perception of those groups which is the map i just described yeah it's it's very particular to claus and your your your understanding of the groups you're involved in and the it kind of goes back to why as a retiree you're pouring your time and energy into the those particular activities um and then from that we can kind of build out but it may well be we can we can just create a we could create a two-hour call and invite anybody who's a mapper to that call we could ask you claus to beforehand just an outline form or any way you want to to just put URLs in and name the name the groups you know the climate coalition whoever else that you're already involved in so that we can just take that for granted and have a baseline of organizations and then deepen our understanding of what that means and see what we come up with with people riffing on this and with a couple different tools a little bit a little bit like an applied hoedown in that we would have a very specific sort of ask and direction for it yeah my my obsolete i mean i i mean i retired in 2012 you know i tried to engage in as a working as a consultant and i did end up with a bunch of scene park projects but even when i did a peer review on uh disneyland shanghai with my former colleagues i tried to insert the sustainability argumentation in it and it went absolutely nowhere so so out of this then i attached myself to ngo's the serah club business climate leaders citizen climate lobby and and now i was able to move myself into positions of leadership but then you realize that these groups are really important you know they they uh i mean first of all the seara club i mean think about it i mean i i i did the the last webinar i engaged the president ramon koos into the into the webinar and we ended up with 7700 people signing on to this um and it turned out that the seara club wasn't ready for it they completely blindsided them they hadn't they expected maybe you know 80 100 people are so like they normally have for their webinars and we made this so big and then the staff member who supported me got fired and that the and his boss got fired wow and then you find out well now bloomberg is paying 140 million dollars to the to the seara club so they are completely entrapped into you know what they can talk about then how they can engage themselves into the political process and that obviously wasn't the right thing so so i'm going you know so so this this ngo route has its limitations to to what you can really accomplish here um business climate leaders is is good ccl but you know they're just uh uh in the new release of the uh energy innovations and carbon dividend act made all kinds of compromises with active with the agricultural sector uh to exempt them from the carbon fees or they would sign on to the bill and then you go well i mean have i talked about nothing lost three four years where um so so i i'm i'm really convinced that uh the way to go about this here is to is to empower innovators you know who who are changing the market dynamics uh and and uh and the and the only and starting in the retail sector and the only way to do that really is started community level um you can't go ahead um so a couple thoughts um first thought is adam warbach who is the youngest ever president of the seara club several generations back as a close friend we could figure out that but i don't i don't know that seara club matters here because what i'm hearing what i'm hearing from what you just said claus is kind of like i feel like the naive jerry was interested in your current involvement and how do we accelerate improve them the slightly improved perspective jerry is saying maybe our question is how how do we help claus aim his energies so that they're actually really productive so you don't feel like you're speaking into avoid because i've been in plenty of projects where it's like jesus i've been here talking about these important things for a year now has nobody heard me like like if you feel like it's not having an effect or how do we change the formulas that does catch on how do we hack the system so that you're so that you do have an effect and maybe maybe what we help you do is create some opinion pieces because what you just said about the capture of the seara club by bloomberg would make a really nice nearing times opinion piece and i'm thinking here of peter buffett son of warren buffett who wrote this great piece about the philanthropic industrial complex and he said at one point my dad gave each of each of us kids more money so that we suddenly got invited to bigger meetings about philanthropy and where i started to see that sometimes the right hand is trying to fix what the left hand broke and he was like the dysfunctions are actually inside of capitalism and we can gift as much money as we want to and if the system is still completely broken we're screwed and what you're describing is the dysfunctions of the systems trying to fix things which is super interesting and if we can make them more functional and include in the making them more functional bring the voices that are not at the table into the table in some other credible way etc etc etc i think that's super high payoff now again i'm sniffing here for where is the highly functional where are things actually working what is actually taking off go ahead mark yes i'm i'm hearing you and and claus especially claus and you know sharing the same frustration the what you've been describing and since i jumped in is exactly what i've been experiencing in the last eight years um and and i i see a lot of common you know even in the values what we're trying to achieve with what i'm working on is mostly as you guys all know um indigenous rights and especially uh to the land which is to me the as he called us what you described close yesterday um as the low-hanging food something that could materialize very quickly into uh improvement in in the way we fight climate change but all these NGOs they're businesses the their their business model is based on fear just like uh and and and working with big corporations and that started into 1990s right when they were starting to bring businesses high-hand CEOs on their board and so i think money and consulting for them and then they say well you know we cannot we cannot buy the hand that feeds us so um so just to bring in the spirit of brainstorming two ideas like um sorry sunrise movement i think it's called uh like should we be reaching out to youth movements who maybe are so young and so new that they haven't been captured properly yet and help them sort of turbo charge and have an effect on the other groups should we one thing i've recommended in a couple places and and the groups never never picked up on it is approach the children of the people in power so it's sort of quietly figure out who the kids are approach them and create some artifact with the kids that is about the topic that comes in and basically resets everybody because they're going to watch because it's their kid doing this um and just as a as a hack of the system as a hack of people's consciousness so that they don't treat this as an arms length thing that they do as their day job but but how do we how do we find and part of my reason for being eager to map what's in your head clouds isn't just that there's organizations working on this that would show up in a systems map but rather that there's dysfunctions at work that would show up in a better systems map that we could start to model how different organizations objectives have been hijacked or other other sort of nuances of what's going on that might help us shift where we apply pressure yeah so i mean i i think it has to be a marriage of hedge fund money and and innovators that are out there trying to do things and and it has to be in a social investment frame it has to be it can't be you know another building another chain operation and so so it has to be a social investment fund that is that is that is not going to create the next mess so so i got connected with david wetzel now he joined us a little while ago and i joined his his group there and participated in some of their meetings so that so here is a global group of of entry level businesses who are working on local food hubs and and ideas of regenerative farming and so on and they could use a lot of help but they don't even know how to ask for help and and even if you offer it they don't understand what it is and so i mean i i i posted marketing 101 you know here is you know how you develop an entry-level market segmentation strategy to match your operational capacity with the best fit customers in the market right here's how you plan and and your production ahead of time because by basically every crop is being sold before you put it in the ground and if you don't do that you know you may end up sitting on a crop that you don't have a market for they don't get it right i mean it's just so but but this is another group where we could make a real impact in structuring a support organization that guides them you know and this is a global group i mean they they have people all over the world participating so that that that would be a network where we could come in and say let let us help you and let us structure you know a support system that you can call on and let us let us match you with funders who would be interested in in in fast-tracking you because of the significance of of what you're doing in community-level food systems development so so i think there has to be money in the process and and and there have to be motivated investors you know who are on the same page and who don't look for maximizing returns and building a next empire um and ironically part of the steward ownership part of the reason for steward ownership being interesting to us and where we're aiming is that it does that it helps it helps take the ipo and the personal riches off the table and helps build a really durable long-lasting enterprise that can feed the commons that can do a bunch of other things i typed into the zoom chat that maybe we can be movement therapists because it feels like a piece of what's needed here is some some psychic and organizational acupressure to to help some of these groups become more functional and actually have an impact because there's there's a bunch of groups that are trying to do stuff with people with great intentions who have great brains and like like are coming together and none of us have sort of talked about how any of these is like really you know kicking ass like what we haven't said and maybe one of us knows but but could we point to a couple of groups that are just like doing fantastically like if we just amplified what these two groups were doing the world would be a much better place in a decade can we name those um yeah i mean there is the wallet center which is the the good food network so they're supporting food hub developments you know throughout the country and so i was trying to help them and and i engaged you know a couple of times and then i sort of got trapped and i was sort of wondering what what's happening and you find out that the walton family is funding them um and that they have these kids spinning around doing stuff that is completely ineffective two-thirds of these food hubs don't make any money someone wants to lose money and they're basically operated by crayons from the government which is a complete waste so so i mean there is there is definitely there is definitely room for improvement but you couldn't get in there because they don't want you you know they have this network but they don't want you to to engage it or to tip the gravy train yeah exactly um so so go ahead but the the the regent regeneration um i'm going to my my internet is super slow because i'm on mobile but the the david metzl scope for example i think that has that has potential that uh that group could really um uh go places and be fired up if uh if it's being sourced properly you know and if we come there with money and and uh technical expertise and support particularly in the marketing field um i mean it's just basis is really basic core marketing you know where where you need to know who your customers are and then specialize your your production towards that um yeah and then then the idea that tom had to develop a national network of support specialists if those were like innovations focus for agricultural innovation systems that that would have potential so there are ways to operationalize this but i think first step would be to find uh interested investors you know who who would want to see such such an effort develop could you explain what an innovation broker does because it sounds like somebody who makes a living from ideas that should be free my men probably misunderstanding that um hold on for saying i'm because i'm i'm trying to catch up my in my internet is so is so hopelessly slow it's sure sorry um so here here is this thing that david uh wetzel is doing um and uh let me let me get the innovations focus thank you and and david witzel by the way is a dear and old friend and i think a lot of people in his community are friends of many about many of us so there's there's i think lots of deep ties there yeah so the the uh the idea of of poke rich um yeah this uh let me find it and david hobson who's in the middle of that is also a dear and old friend so and i haven't checked in with hobson in forever so what then innovations what what you what what is completely missing in the american agricultural system i mean i worked as a as a head of corporate target group marketing for a very large company i had i had a 13.5 billion euro portfolio in 30 countries and and my teams were were working on market segmentation strategies where we would identify target groups types of customers who were compatible with our assortments and with our operational capacity basically and then we we would develop training materials for over six thousand sales people to instruct them look for this type of customers here's how you find them and we would advise operations and procurement here's what you need to do the round off to so we can service these customers so that's basically poke rich um let me see if i can find this i'll take i apologize because i wasn't thinking about what you were just explaining in terms of the brokerage so so basically making market making of a sense between the right fit between what an organization has to offer and what people in the market need is that what you mean yeah i mean you match um what you what what the innovations poker would do and it's explained in this article better and then then i can explain it here right now i'll send it to you in a moment thanks but you you basically have a communications process where you need a poker in the middle on the one hand to understand what is the demand for certain products what's the quality price range and so on and then go to the operator and say can you produce this and if not what what what what can you produce and then you go back to the market and say here's what we can do and then you match these two together uh and and and then you develop also the aggregation capacity required where you may have multiple farmers supplying one customer so it's a very technical function okay right so it could also be a matchmaker of supply and demand or a smoother of flow or there's lots of different names for it when you called it in when you called it innovation broker my brain went immediately to somebody who's trying to capture value on innovations in the middle of the stream and and adding a layer of cost to it so the framing just as innovation broker wasn't actually working for me very well and i'll read the article now uh and Doug did you want to jump in yeah um let's say am i unmuted yes yes yeah i'm okay um i'm going to take my frustration with this conversation as actually a contribution to broadening the conversation uh i find the discussion around markets way too conservative to fit the realities we're going towards we're moving into a world where let's say half the people are going to be unemployed and not have income there are huge migrations going on uh where people are going to be need to need to be fed we need levels of organization that our marshal plan like to be able to feed people and that's going to feedback into the innovation world where the innovation world feels to me like it's capitalism and it wants people who are going to make more money out of the system that's already concentrating wealth to a terrible degree so there's a a rethinking here of what we're doing that's going to take some time because we don't i don't have the answers at all nobody does i think what claus is working on is really important but it does not reach the level of concern that i have i really appreciate what how you expressed that time yeah that was great tag that's super helpful so we have uh six minutes i don't know if folks want to stay past the hour but um i would like to come out of this with a couple maybe maybe we do maybe we don't come out with a couple of specific action items if it's mapping if it's writing something up if it's having another call whatever the so in that interest uh claus the mapping exercise i described earlier does that sound valuable to you and would you be happy to participate in something like that and if not then we won't we won't follow that path yeah of course it sounds good okay so we can we can arrange that and i think we'll learn stuff i'm having i'm having the feeling that that leads us into a critique of the system that could help us steer what ogm does in intervening in the system and could be informative to how you the role you're playing in the system claus so that you are less frustrated in the long run and dug i think that the the big picture urgency that you have been holding here for us is important for that conversation as well and may well be claus a way to light up in people's heads what's wrong and it could be that that one thing that's needed here is something that is simultaneously uh we're all doomed and things are going to crash and looky here we're holding the cards of the kingdom for how to fix this and we're just not being functional in deploying it or figuring out how to how to get it to work yeah that what i what i see strategically as as possible is on is one on the one hand is to convince the six multinational corporations that control 80 percent of global markets to change their ways and that seems to be unlikely because uh school organized through the world economic forum they have chosen a path that is that is already investing billions of dollars into an entirely unsuitable solution you know this impossible meets and and that sort of thing the other option is to to create a grassroots ground up revolution in localized food systems and and to empower small businesses with a with a with a macro support structure to go to scale so so that the scale you're developing is macro level support to independent operators that can draw resources from this macro structure so i have a thought on my my brain called the hidden war on small farms and i'm just realizing from this conversation how much i've collected over time about how fucked you are if you're a small farmer like like between arbitrage and futures markets and monopolists on seed and grain and pesticide like like all these different things are basically fighting and the fact that your tractor is reporting data that you have to buy back all this stuff just operates against you never mind you're a black farmer or something else where people are just trying to get you out of the neighborhood so so that's helping me uncover my own my own discoveries that i haven't realized about how screwed up the system is which then means that interventions like what you just described which then trickle back out to land ownership and land use policies of the kind that mark is involved in um is kind of sort of that stuff starts to come into the picture really vividly because if we can help people hack their way toward the shift that includes sustainability that includes making a great living in places that are going to be unemployed now and matching themselves to the demands for food that are going to be different than outside of the very constrained normal supply system that that knows how to take soybeans from the pompous or from you know illinois and drop them into silos and turn them into fuel if we can if we can figure out alternatives i think that's really powerful the solutions are all out there yeah i think we need to invent the truth is out there matter of pulling it together um i have one action item jerry to convene session to map claus's brain what else another call like this um jerry will post the recording to actually i'll write that to youtube and to the channel the matter most channel yeah yeah i'll do that as i usually do what i think is in this conversation we have broadened rather narrowed and in that sense it's an ogme conversation and i really appreciate it i think where we ended up is a good ogm conversation thank you for that um because i think i think i think i'm i'm i'm perceiving that each of us is frustrated with the topic and the conversation in a slightly different way but i'm also perceiving that we would you just said holes that that we we've sort of broke through a couple things and got somewhere at least at least i have a different perspective on several things than when that an hour ago um i feel like this conversation is going to fizzle out if we don't keep it going um so how do we make this conversation larger or functional if we were to hold the same conversation next week for example because with a week's notice we probably get more people but how do we frame this so that we're focusing on the right issues here what we could also do is schedule this time next week for the mapping session because if the time works for you we can just choose this time uh and then the week after that digest all of it and go back into this kind of session uh with a little more sort of experience under a belt yeah next week i started from wednesday through sunday i'm traveling so i i'm out of commission for that time okay so i'll work around your schedule for scheduling the mapping session anything else so i'm not sensing an urgency to have another call like this one oh no i think that we want to include the thursday group in this conversation uh by telling them sort of what we did and and maybe even with claus being absent next friday we just do this call again with more people and if i may suggest jerry we could involve david wetzel involve tom into this conversation and say hey look we have been bouncing around here um would you guys be interested to advance it to advance this conversation that sounds great um i'd hate to invite them and then have you not be on the call so that means next friday is not a good time for that call yeah it would be hard my schedule is just not predicted i know i know you're gonna be on the on the hoof but i about this conversation sounds good i mean i'd love to to host this and it may take a little bigger run to get these guys onto the phone and tom's last name is rehm rehm right uh so i like the idea of reporting out to a thursday call um uh i'm going to miss the next thursday call so who who wants to report out i can do it the week after yeah i'm probably not going to be there either so maybe we should just wait anyway uh yes why don't we hold off on reporting in i think the idea is great i think that the logistics here are complicated for reporting it in um i'm going to put in 415 call sounds great uh and then jerry you're gonna reach out to david wetzel and tom rehm yeah um i will connect to tom rehm mentioning you class unless you want to make a more formal intro i'll connect here okay thank you um and then we'll pick it we'll pick the date when you're back to have this conversation again so we'll just work around your schedule to do a mapping call and follow on to this call go ahead mark yes i uh put the url of a group called osc2 which is one step closer to organic and sustainable communities and class if you can take a look at it and if you think that these people could be of uh help then i'd be happy to make a connection and invite them for the next call and i i think a broad mapping of groups like this and like the ones that you're involving class would be super useful and as part of our directories you know as part of i think we're flotillas aiming and what vincent would be gathering and all of that so and i don't pete i don't know how this fits what flotilla is up to but uh but that seems to be an interesting part of the mapping that's needed here um uh flotilla is really based around building which was um is this more a vincent vincent and capitalist kind of thing well even uh that was interesting what's it called what's it called catalyst catalyst i called it capitalist which is a list of capitals that's all it is um flotilla and even vincent vincent gets a little bit involved but it's really about the tools building the tools so you need some folks to you know uh so i think maybe it's reaching out to to the mapping don't okay i'm just i'm just like me um probably because i haven't i haven't really been there so i can you know yeah it's probably if you want to do it that'd be great too um i need to copy the intersection okay uh so this is going well this is going on a wiki page yeah and i'm i've got to i've got to open my browser so i can harvest it easily uh jerry to reach out to mappers guild mapping channel yeah um to ask them for to to invite them to map claus's brain is that the specific task um we yeah we we also got somewhere with directories i think maybe this is the place to start um and and yeah map two things uh initiatives internet just falls oh that's why you were so quiet yeah i was like claus is awfully still there i would i would love somebody has to create a utility or maybe some people are doing this i mean it's easy enough to do manually but to take a snapshot of you and your screen right this second and basically make that your dummy so that if you do have to step away you can just put yourself in there in what what you're wearing at the moment maybe it's just a little bit of noise so it looks like it with a little a little auto behavior and you can do the auto behavior now i mean we can you know we can we can uh deep fake we can deep fake motion easily so done it's a good idea that should be a little function so you can step away and soon we won't know who's actually like real and who's not and who's like there is an avatar in every meeting so and we will look fondly back on the days when we knew that each of us was actually sitting there um cool we've got the nvidia video compression does that shit it actually it watches you and then you know it takes a snapshot watches you watch you move watch you move around and then all it sends is uh you know he turned his head said this way he turned his head that one and then the other side regenerates it yeah deep takes it on the other side ow ow man okay um this has been super useful uh we have to do's and uh shall we wrap it up yep that sounds thank you so thank you very very much really appreciate it thank you thanks bye bye ciao


Indeed, now my pleasure to introduce the next distinguished speaker for this opening session, Dr. Jairaj Fartik, Municipal Commissioner of the Municipal Corporation of Greater Mumbai. I'm happy to share with you that Dr. Fartik has been associated with the Urban Age Conference as a member of the Steering Committee, which was constituted in July of this year. His valuable guidance has helped us shape the conference to make it more topical and relevant to the city of Mumbai and India. Dr. Fartik, we thank you for your guidance and time. A few words about Dr. Fartik. He's an official of the prestigious Indian Administrative Service, India's centrally recruited civil service. Before his current responsibilities, Dr. Fartik has served as the Principal Secretary of the Urban Development and the Government of Maharashtra and also as Secretary of School Education in the state. Just the right experience to understand the diversified issues faving Mumbai and Mumbai cuts. Dr. Fartik has a master's in physics from the prestigious Indian Institute of Technology and a postgraduate management degree from Harvard. As Municipal Commissioner, he's been advocating a more open door policy, which creates just the right atmosphere for generation of ideas and solutions for making Mumbai a better city. May I now invite Dr. Fartik to come and share his thoughts with us. Thank you, Mr. Chadda. I'm happy to welcome all of you, Chairman, Director, the International and the Indian guests to the city of Mumbai for this conference. I thank the organizers, namely the LSE and the Dutche Bank, who have made this conference possible. Discussions ranging from future global cities to immediate current problems like housing for the urban poor would take place here. And I'm sure that we have plenty to learn from experience elsewhere. India faces the greatest problem of urbanization. The world has ever known millions of people are shifting from rural to urban setting, and we have to manage this shift within our democratic polity. In a way, the nation is trying to jump from the 19th century to the 21st century in one leap. The rural poor's perception is that their migration to a mega city will solve the problem of their bread and butter. And with this expectation, they migrate even without a legal tenure. The Harris Todaro model explains rural urban migration to the expected wage, rather than the actual wage. So in these expectations, they shift. The rural poor shift with high expectations in very large numbers, and this gives to an increase in urban poverty. Today, in my state of Maharashtra, the proportion of people below poverty line in urban areas is already more than their proportion in the rural areas, because it is not only the spillage of poverty from rural Maharashtra, but the poorer areas all over the country that takes place in the city of Mumbai. The demands of inclusive growth, therefore, require substantial allocations for anti-poverty programs in urban areas through microfinance and basic housing. The democratic system that we have ensures that the decision-making is inclusive. Amongst 227 elected corporators in Mumbai Corporation, we have 21 Muslims, five Christians, and three Sikhs. The linguistic minorities of Urdu, Hindi, Gujarati and South Indian languages are well represented, and these members are as vocal as anybody else. More than half of the population of the city of Mumbai lives in slums. Although all of them have municipal water supply, only a few of them are covered by sewerage. Lack of sewerage and sanitation makes these areas filthy. Such a high number of poor living in slums has meant that the per capita income in Mumbai city, which is 55,000, 55,600 rupees, about 1,400 dollars, is lower than the per capita incomes in Vadodara, Goa or Pune. This is in spite of the fact that the per capita revenue income of the Mumbai Municipal Corporation is among the highest in the country, since it is based on property tax and property values are the highest here, and a local customs duty called DOCTROY. Slums in Mumbai are now undergoing a transformation as what we call redevelopment of slums, which has become possible because the land values, which are about 5,000 rupees per square foot, are now five times more than the construction cost, which is 1,000 rupees per square foot. This has enabled reconstruction of slums in multi-storied tournaments by giving higher FAR to the developer, because usually the slum occupies an FAR of 1.0. It is usually single storied. So by allowing an FAR of two or three, the slum gets reconstructed in a multi-storied tower, and another tower is constructed, which is for sale in open market. So he can cross subsidize the slum construction. Slum dwellers get 225 square feet of house free of cost. With burgeoning population, the main challenges before the city are continuous upgradation of water supply and sewerage. Unlike many other cities in the world, Mumbai also faces very heavy rains of 2,500 millimeters per year. Unlike cities like Singapore, where similar amount of rainfall is distributed throughout the year, in Mumbai it is concentrated over a period of two months. Our stormwater drain systems can take care of about 300 millimeters of rainfall in a day, and the city gets flooded if, because of the erratic monsoon, if the rainfall exceeds this amount. On the fateful day of 26 July 2005, more than 900 millimeters of rainfall occurred in a day in suburbs. This resulted in a loss of number of lives and massive damage to property. I am happy to mention that the Government of India has supported the water supply and sewerage upgradation through Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission and the stormwater drain upgradation through a greater Mumbai stormwater drain project costing rupees 18 billion. Many cities in the world, such as London, Chicago and Singapore, have solved their flood problems effectively in the past, and I am sure that the Urban Age Conference would offer a forum to learn from their experience. The burgeoning number of vehicles in Mumbai on Mumbai roads is another area of anxiety. With rising per capita income of Indians, more and more people are owning personal vehicles. The roads that were designed for a much smaller fleet are getting heavily congested, while underground metro system and underground parking, as well as flyovers and elevated roads are being attempted in Mumbai. I am sure that we can learn a lot from experience of cities such as Bogota, South Polo and others in the developing world as to how they have solved their transportation problem. I again, I close by again welcoming you for the Urban Age India Conference in Mumbai and wish the conference every success. Thank you. Certain kind of politics. Each of the global cities we have visited has both features. This image I like because it suggests


This study examined the correlation between the pathological features of lupus nephritis, Alen, and the demographic, clinical and laboratory parameters. It was found that serum creatinine was significantly associated with 24-hour protonuria, while there was no significant association of serum creatinine with activity or chronicity percentages. Additionally, it was observed that protonuria was significantly correlated with chronicity percentage, but not with activity percentage. This article was authored by Hamid Nasseri, Ali Ahmadi, Azhar Beridharan, and others.


All right. Yeah, I guess we can just start in. Hello, everyone. I'm Andreas Linsen. I work as a designer at Red Hat. Yeah, during my day-to-day work, I work on a product called Compact, which is a server administration UI. But I've also been involved in the GNOME project for about 10 years now. And today, I'm going to talk about one of the GNOME apps called GNOME Maps. And how we use the inter-use to implement a new functionality in that software. So it started when Michael Slumblad, one of the developers, he followed his bug. And he said, yeah, we should probably get some support for public transportation. Because currently, we have that you can get from point A to point B either by walking or biking or driving. But he was like, well, what if someone wants to take the bus? So yeah, we would need a design for this. And I thought, yeah, this should be fairly straightforward. So I grew up in a very, very small village in the countryside of Sweden. It's called Bekemen, about 100 people live there. I didn't grew up there. I grew up up there. So it's quite far away. It takes you two kilometers to get into this place, where the bus goes three times a day, if anyone gets aware. And these days, I live in the central Gothenburg, Sweden's second biggest city. And I have a bus or a tram if I want to go somewhere about every third minute just outside my door. So I felt like, well, this should be easy. I knew both the streams of this, right? I'd be living in a place where it was very, very few buses and trams. And I lived in a place where it's like very a lot of trams. And maybe I took a bus in Paris at some point also. So I should know all this. And I would just need to use my regular process of going from idea, making some basic ideas of who would use this, make mock-ups, and then do the code. And also look at, oh, how is other software solving this problem. That should be easy. But then I did the mistake of talking to my girlfriend about it. And she is born and raised in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. And we talked about public transportation in general. And it turned out that we had very different experiences and expectations of how one would use public transportation in general. So it seems like I actually had a blank spot here. I mean, I knew how I use public transportation, but I actually don't know how others use public transportation. So I had a problem. So I was like, OK, how do I solve this? How do I address this problem of a great black hole over here? I had read a little bit of literature before about doing user research. But I was always a bit afraid of it. I was always a bit intimidated by it. I felt like, well, if I would do this, I would probably do it wrong, right? Because I wouldn't ask the right questions, and I would just screw up the data, and it would just be terrible. But I thought, well, at this point, I should probably just try it once we're all right. And even if I do it with just a couple of people, I don't have a sample group of 100 or something like that, at least if I get to talk to at least a couple of other people, then that would be better than just basing the data on one person. So I called up some friends and family from different parts of Sweden, and I called some people in Brazil. And I just asked them some very simple questions. And these were all like my friends and family. So I totally understood that, OK, yeah, this is not the best selection of people necessarily, but this is what I have, right? These are the people that I have access to. So I asked them these very simple questions. I mean, the top one, as they talked about in the earlier talk, is a total close questions. But the other ones, I tried to make fairly open. So for example, the top one is like, do you own a car? Which is the question, are you only dependent on public transportation when you need to get somewhere? I intensity of usage, what app is a website to use today, which is a good way of figuring out, OK, what other kind of software can I look at? So I got a lot of tips on different apps people used, what they disliked about those particular applications, and what they liked about those. One was regarding, do you value shorter travel time or less switches, which is a weird question, right? And some people struggled with that. But that was also in order to figure out, like, oh, a sorting algorithm for the different results. And a bit of my walk-in between the stops, also a sorting algorithm thing. And do you prefer a certain need or transportation? Do you like to ride trains more than you like to ride buses, maybe? And also, of course, it worked out to arrive on a departure like when that is important to you. Yeah, so I just call up these people. It was fairly short interviews, maybe like 10, 15 minutes tops. And I was asked these basic questions, and it was quite good, because once you got them talking, they were happy to share a lot of their general experience around these. And they were telling, like, oh, I go from home, and I go, I take these trips every day. And I have these telling us when I'm doing the strips. And with regards to, one of my friends asked, will you prefer a certain need of transportation? And she answered, like, well, I don't prefer, like I said, so much that I simply cannot take buses. It doesn't work for me, because I get really carsick, even on any, like I have to take the trams. And I was like, well, how carsick do you get? And she was like, well, I got so carsick that I just faint. So buses doesn't work for me, right? So suddenly, it occurred to me that this wasn't so much of a preference as like it's such a basic need for her to be able to sort out, yeah, in this case, buses. Because yeah, any kind of results with buses would just be useless for her. It would just clutter up the whole interface. So that was revealing. And I learned a couple of other things as well in a similar vein. So what I did once I had talked to these people, I wrote it all down, like all the results. I put them out on our wiki, the Ignom wiki, and shared it with Marcus again, the developer. And then I tried to summarize the data, and I did this in the form of a person as then. And all of these, as you can see, like they are combinations of data that I got out of the interviews. All right, so here's one of them. This is Jenny, it's a little bit of like just background, which is like, okay, she's new in the city, right? She can't find her way around. And then like a small little story for her and a specific scenario that she needs to carry out, like that a person would need to carry out with this kind of UI. But most importantly, she gets car sticks very easy. So she, yeah, wants to avoid to go by bus. And that I lifted directly from this friend of mine. And the friend that mentioned the car stick mess, she was not the only one that also happened to another person, but she was the one that had had it most severe. All right, and after that was done, and Michael said like, yeah, this is totally fine. Yeah, these things, they make sense. I then went and implemented the UI. And, or I did the wireframes, right? And, yeah, and then I basically used the things that I learned. So it has this simple little family you can sort out, certain means of transportation. For example, if you get very car stick, right? So that then matches the gender persona. You get results here. And at the beginning, if I had done it, like without doing these interviews, I would not have included the numbers of the buses here because I was like, oh, you just go in and shouldn't clutter that too much UI, right? But I figured that a lot of people are actually, they know their city that well, that they know like, oh, I know where I can find tram number eight. And I know how to get between the end station of that to number three, right? I know where I need to switch. And also the leave now is the defaults and it has a dropdown for arrive by, because it made sense as a default. All right, yeah, and then, yeah, I talked again to Michael's. A very important thing I feel in general is that the designer and the developer needs to have a constant collaboration.  That's not my style. So yeah, he implemented it. And once the implementation was in fairly good shape, I checked out the branch and then I invited some people over to just use some very basic usability testing on this UI and wanted to try if I could carry out these actions. And I did this over like, maybe I did like, person every other day or something, five people in total. And as we found issues, I reported to Michael's and he was able to fix them before the next person would try it out. So the people would have run into the same things over and over again. And yeah, that's it basically. The whole thing wasn't just built by me and Marcus, but it was actually built by all these people who was kind enough to offer the time to do the interviews and also the people who are kind enough to help with the usability testing. So yeah, I guess in the end, we were quite a bunch of people who were involved in building this interface. And yeah, I think that's it for me. If you have feedback about this talk, good or bad, just go to this URL and submit some feedback. And that's it for me. Yeah, so no question. I see what it means. I'm gonna repeat for the camera. So the question is, since my sample has only six people, it could be the issue of that, for example, with car sickness, that I actually happen to run into the one person that has this very weird, because I'm not saying that car sickness is one of them, but it could be that you get very skewed data because the sample is so small, right? Yeah, and I think that is so true. But at the same time, I think it's better if you go out and at least get some data. And at the same time, being aware that, okay, I will talk to six people, could be totally off, but at least I spoke to six people about it, you know? And then hopefully, this is not a done thing, of course. I would love to interview more people. I think also that, yeah, since these things take a bit of time, right? It took me at least 15 minutes for each person. And then I also had to talk to them a little bit more. And so maybe it's 25 minutes in total. It takes a lot of time, right? So ideally, I as a designer on the team should not be the only one that does this, but ideally also other people could help with this. The developers could also be involved in doing the interviews or in doing the usability testing, because then you suddenly, you're able to multiply very easily. Yeah. So during coding monetization, in the sense that Microsoft had done a branch, where the basic functionality was there, not everything, not all the details were in their final state, but it was good enough that it was functional enough that people could actually start using it. And then that's where we started doing the whole thing. And we picked up on very specific things which would have been hard to find otherwise.  And also in the sense that people use the map itself and not so much the sidebar, I can show here. They would like right click on a map and like do different action there, which was also something I had missed completely. So that's also something we did. But it was good because then, yeah, if we had gone onto a weird path, it would not have been like, you know, 35 coding hours invested in that for nothing. This all is, well, I have at least three minutes so I can give a little demo. Let's see, how do I get the mouse on the right screen? Is it good? All right. So I want to get from UAB to, oh, I'm just gonna butcher it. If I say it wrong, is it connected properly? It's taking a little bit of searching unfortunately. All right, so from here and then, I'll say this there, who belongs? Wow, what's up with that? It is not in master yet. UB, all right? U-L-B, and yeah, here we get the results while it's broken, I'm so sorry. It is, it is, I should have, I should have recorded the whole thing, right? Okay, here you have the same bar, you get the difference of results. Okay, if I select to go with numbers 25, oh yeah, I get the stations in between, which is an expandable load of thing, which is good if I'm new in the city because I need to, oh, what is the station before the station I need to get off, right? And I also get walking instructions for how to get from the subway to the street and then the arrival time. And then I can go back, I can choose the different. To sort out ferries, they wouldn't go in a ferries there, but in some cities, yeah, so that's it. I can also load later alternatives, okay? I can go at 16.45, and yeah, that's how it works. Thank you for sure, sir. Thank you. From a project called, so the question was where did I get the data? There is a project called Open Trip Planner, which is an open source project. And there is a couple of cities that pass their data in this kind of formats. We currently have a test server up and running. We need a proper server, which we would host ourselves. We haven't solved that yet. It's all good, I think. And I'm out of time.


I don't think that's true. So we're gonna be putting them to the test to see whose wife knows who the best. Easy. I'm gonna pick out one shoe that I absolutely love and we're gonna see if she knows that shoe because I'm gonna pick two other shoes. And out of the three, she has to pick my shoe and we'll see if she gets it. One of the shoes that I don't have yet is this one right here. Now I've been wanting this for a while but we haven't bought it because I've been buying way too many shoes and she knows that about me. She knows that I've been wanting to buy this one every time we go in the store. I've been saying like, I want to reimagine the threes because I love the Jordan threes.  So if I know Tim the best, I think that he's gonna pick one and outrageous shoe. Honestly, I know this is supposed to be a challenge but I'm really, really gonna try hard because if she doesn't know that I want those shoes, it's over. Like I'm done. Two, a very loud shoe. Like I know he's gonna pick like the Sawarskis. Let's go ahead and pick some other shoes that I may like but I don't like want at the moment. Kobe's are my number one hoop shoe and I really, really like these. These are obviously really hype and I think she knows I like hype stuff. So we're gonna see if she guesses these. She might guess the Kobe's. If she guesses the Kobe's though, nah, not it. Or three, anything Travis Scott because that boy is a high based. Favorite sneaker in the entire world is the Concord 11s. This is my number one shoe. The thing I don't like about these 11s is the cut of leather is really, really thick. I like the old style of the 11s but this is my all time favorite shoe. I don't have them anymore. So we're gonna see if she guesses these. I don't know. It's pretty hard. It might throw her off because she does know that Concord's my favorite shoe. So we'll see. All right, we're ready for y'all. So you selected these three sneakers right here. Yes. But out of all these three, there's only one that you really love. The thing about it is that like, I really like all these three sneakers. I know these are great. But there is one that I really, really want. I got this easy. Okay. I don't even need like. I don't have any of these three either. So. Yeah. These. Concord 11s. He's putting his head down. Why would you pick those? If I wanted those, I would have them. What is going on here? Okay. I don't like the cut of leather in the new 11s. You know this. You know this is my favorite sneaker. This is your favorite sneaker ever. What are you talking about? Then why don't I have them in the collection? They've been out for a while. These just came out. I've been saying every time I go in the sneaker store, I need the three. You're embarrassing me. I need the three. You're embarrassing me. We're supposed to be on the same page here. I've been telling you forever. I want these. We might need a couple of counts of that. I'm done. I'm done with this video. I'm done. We still got some more rounds to go. All right. We'll see if y'all can do any better. We'll see if y'all can do any better. All right. This is going to be hard because there's a lot of great options. And you guys know I love all these sneakers. I got a lot of these sneakers already. But I think I'm going to go like he did with some classics. So I truly don't know what he's going to pick. I know a few of his favorites, but it could be really anything at this point. He really likes like, what does he really like? What does he really enjoy? He... I'm pretty sure his favorite shoe is the infrared six. Is that what they are? Yes. I'm like the worst. True. I don't even know where to start. I think I got to do some sixes first. They got some, y'all got some infrared sixes? No. Should we just do like three wild shoes? No? I don't know. I don't know what she's like. I want to make it hard on her kind of low key. I feel like she could do this though. I believe in her. Okay, keep in mind you're trying to win. I know, but I want to test it. All right, all right. We're going to go with the other sixes, the Travis Scott's. I'm going to go with the Amma 3s. This is a good one right here. He has such a crazy collection and it's so hard because he loves all his shoes for different reasons. So I don't know. I'm fingers crossed. I hope that... But he likes like OG stuff, right? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. But he's cool with like new stuff too. Like... I propose to her in these shoes. I wore these on my wedding day. So these both have sentimental value. Two good shoes. Okay, Spaceship M11s. I love all these shoes. If I could only pick one. It's really hard to kind of gauge. So you're going to have a hard time. It sounds like you're losing. It sounds like you're losing. No. No, you guys lost the first round. So I wouldn't be too confident. I think I'm going to go with the Amma 3s. This is my choice right here. Let's see if she picks these. Come on, baby. Pick the shoe. Okay. She's looking at the back. I had to make sure that it wasn't... She's authenticating them. Okay, I'm going to go... I have my pick, but... You're not... I'm going to go with this one. I would have gone with this one. That was my second choice. Am I wrong? There's no way! I picked these. Oh, okay, I'm going to take it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I told you not to be too confident. He picked a girl's shoe. He picked a woman's shoe. Wait. Here the reasoning. Okay, go ahead and reason. You wore them to the wedding for the actual, you know... I wore these to the wedding. I proposed to her in these. I proposed to her in these. I wore these to the wedding. And these are just my grills. I love all three of these. So there's a good reason behind all these, but this one in particular... He's simping. Simping. This is his shoe right here. The grinches? Are you serious, Tim? You've been wanting the Conquarts forever. And yes, the only reason you don't have them is because you never buy them. Honestly, DJ kind of pissed me off because he's trying to do the whole loving thing, whatever. But it's cool, it's cool. Because I'm honestly gonna win this round easily. So we'll just see what three sneakers I'm gonna pick, okay? So we have the Dior V23 Classic, you know, high-end brand Dior's. And then we got the Amaris right here. So we're just going to designer. You know what I mean? These two shoes, you know, Beth knows that I would love these too because I love designer, you know. Obviously. So we're gonna go with these two.  But they have to be very careful. I wear those every day. Certified love of course. Guys, it's so hard. I just, I really wanna be with you. I really wanna win. All right, we're ready for you to come down. I'm feeling good, you know what I'm saying? I'm feeling good right now, but we got a long game, so... He's feeling...  He's feeling simpish. Okay, honestly though, out of all these, which one would I pick? If I get this one wrong, it's you, that's the problem. Oh, it's me, that's the problem. Yes! It's me, that's the problem. Cause you were the one that, I caught you, I looked in your DMs and I saw it. What are you talking about? I'm joking, I'm joking. Okay, I'm joking. All right. Okay, my final selection is the Soar Skis. You know I love Amiri. You know I literally love Amiri. You're lying. Nah, I'm just kidding. I want these so bad. I want these so bad. I want these so bad. I'm not telling you. These are so bad. These are so bad. I know he's gonna pick like the Soar Skis. These are so bad. You know what's even greater? You know what's even greater? Is that you're gonna be buying these for me. I wore these on our wedding night. I did. Wait, what? At the night, at the reception for the dance. You were just falling. It was not like a game. He can't stop thinking about his wedding. It was a great time. You brought in the shoes. Okay. All right, one point for them, one point for us. It's time for us to score a game. I wasn't even invited to your wedding. We do not care. All right, so I'm feeling good. Y'all got one. It's okay. Let's take it to the dunks. Shout out to our time for letting us be here too, man. We got, they got a lot of great options over here.  Do you really? Oh yes. I have a pair of pandas. No disrespect to you, but I do not like the pandas. Sorry, we're gonna put the pandas in there. This is just a good laugh right here. I like these, but I also don't like orange, which is wild. But this shoe I like, but I like this series. We're totally off the thing. Yeah. How did you feel about the first round? I felt good about the first round, the second round you guys got us, so. What do you think's gonna happen on this, on this round? I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm hoping that. How did you guess it right though? Because it was our wedding shoe. It was the shoe that he walked up to me in. So I definitely knew that that was- So you feel like that's his favorite shoe though, because of that? Yeah, it's some amount of value. Mm. Let's go with, what is a sleeper now? I just saw these up here. You got the Mardi McFly's. These are crazy.  So out of these three shoes, I'm rocking with the Mardi McFly's. These go crazy. I always wanted these in my collection. Are you saying that we're good? You're good. All right, so these are the three. It's definitely not that. So the- The pandas? Yeah, definitely not that. All right, I'm quiet. Man. I really hope- I don't give this wrong. I really hope I don't get this wrong. I'm gonna say this one. Orange lobsters. Yeah. That was a great pick. But- Was these? I'll go with the Mardi McFly's. Oh. Those are Mardi McFly's. I almost picked that one. I gotta give them the L. I gotta give you guys the L. We got the dub on this round, baby. It's time for round three. It's tied up.  It's tied. I literally gotta get this round. Right now what I'm gonna do since the loser has to pick the winner of their dream shoe, I'm gonna pick a shoe. I'm gonna pick a shoe right now. And you know what? You know what? We're gonna make this one extra special. We're gonna make this one extra special. Not picking these for sure, but I have a better idea. What we're gonna do is we're gonna pick all three loos. And we're gonna see what pair she thinks I want. The red pair, which these are the ones I want. So we're gonna see if she can pick what she wanna want. And then DJ's gonna buy these for me. I knew that one for sure. Now I just have one where to go and then I can win the challenge. Okay. Out of these three, because I'm gonna tell you why. If you get this right, DJ's buying them for me and I get a brand new pair of loos. So, out of all these three colors, which one am I picking? I've only mentioned this maybe one time. It's the same shoe. Right, but the color, which one would I wear? Which one would I, you know, wear most of the time? Oh my gosh.  I can't talk. I can't talk. I guess the rule. But. I'm gonna get this. Damn. Oh my gosh. All right, go ahead. Okay. Wait, turn around. Turn around. What are you talking about? Okay. I'm gonna pick these. All right, bend over. I know. I'm gonna pick these. The red Louis Vuitton. That is a sudden death. If DJ just gets it right, then we will do a final round. If not, then your boy's going home with the Louis. Watch to the end to find out. Round three. Gotta go big. Oh my gosh. We gotta go big. He's trying to chase the bag right now. This is crazy. I thought we were supposed to be getting shoes for our wives, not for him. He's trying to finesse the situation. We gotta go to the heat wall. I think that's what we gotta do. They got a lot of heat here too, by the way. Final round. How are you feeling? I'm feeling a little shaky right now. You getting anxiety right now? A little bit. I've walked around a couple of times to make sure I was feeling level-headed when I... How do you feel about the last round? Well, I got it wrong. So not feeling great. I'm hoping, praying that I get this next round right because if I don't, then my man has to buy... Me shoes. You, those shoes. For my feet, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sorry about that. This is what we're gonna do. We're rocking with the UNC's, the Michigan's, and the Oklahoma's. So if my wife knows me, I have both of these in my collection already, but I don't have these yet. I've been talking about these a lot. So I'm going with the UNC Force. Hopefully she's right. I think I know. I think I know, but this was a great final round. This is a fantastic final round. I already know, I know which one it is. He's mentioned it before. If you were a true wife, you would know. Oh, don't put that on me. Come on. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. My subscribers, bro. Right. You should be watching every single video, post a notification on like. She doesn't watch my videos. I do watch her videos, just not all of them, but. Every time you go to the bathroom, you better have that on, like. I'm stressed. I'm stressed. Okay, um. This determines what we eat tonight. Damn. I'm scared. I'm so scared. I really don't know. I genuinely don't know. Tell me what you think right now. Okay, so I'm like, okay, Oklahoma, you were just trying to complete this set recently. I don't think this is your favorite. But, I don't know. Do you have this? Do you have this one? Mm. Can you tell me that? I feel like you can't. I feel like that's cheating. That's cheating? I feel like it's cheating, yeah. Okay. You can only ask me the questions about him. I specifically said that these weren't that awesome, but I think you do like these. Right. This color, I feel like it's looking that one. I feel like it's looking that one. You guys are stressing me out right now. Final answer. What you rockin' with? Mm-mm. I'm gonna go with these. Let's go! Wait, I thought you wanted the Oklahoma ones. I thought you wanted the Oklahoma ones. Let's go, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I thought you wanted these. Let's go! Is that what's on? Yeah, I'm just kidding. That's the time? That's the time we gotta go. Final round. What do we do? Yeah, final round. What do we do? Final round! Final round of death. It's time now. Don't forget, whoever loses, the other one has to buy a pair for their wife. Okay. So, she's got an expensive taste. Oh, double-edged? So, I gotta buy both of y'all a pair now.   Okay, if I win, get me something. All right, let's go. Let's go, let's go. Okay, for this round, we are gonna switch things up just to smidge. So, now what we're gonna do for the final round is you are gonna pick three pairs of shoes and you're gonna see which one he will pick. Okay. I'm gonna pick three pairs of shoes and see which one Tim will pick. So, that's the ultimate test to see who knows who better. Made the best wife win. Let's do this. Y'all go first though. Okay. Yes. Okay, honestly, I'm just really stressed right now because I don't know if she's gonna match my taste. That's the thing. Like she really, really, really needs to get a good shoe for me.  I'm gonna be like, I really like this one on the right. She's gonna be like, you do like, I thought you liked the middle one. You didn't say you were in the middle one. She's gonna be like, babe, like, I, when did I tell you on the middle one? Like three years ago.  Cause I really want those Swarskies. Automatically, I've always wanted this shoe for the longest time, but I never buy it. But it's because I love this one. I love orange, Tim should automatically know this one. So rocking with these, we'll see. Next shoe, next shoe. Okay. Make it a little bit easy on him. I know the heat. I won't choose these. So we'll put these in there. We'll not choose these. Last shoe, last shoe. For sure the off-white green colorway Air Force ones. My absolute dream shoe. So out of these three, this is my dream shoe. I am so, I'm so good. You got this. I think I got this. I mean, like, these are the only ones that will fit me. So. It's not for you, it's for me. Oh, it's for you. Oh, the orange ones for sure. The orange ones for sure. Wait, am I right? I have to be right. I better freaking be right. This is my final answer. You're lying. You're lying, you always talk about orange dunks.  Cause like every time we're at the store, she's like, I like the orange dunks, I like orange dunks. The off-white green. I've heard you talk about that a few times. But every time we go- These are not the parsley. Doesn't matter. You like the color orange, you like dunks. You want it orange dunks. Okay, you liked all the three shoes you had. My disappointment is immeasurable. And my day is ruined. All right, we're gonna see if they beat us or not. We're gonna see if they beat us or not. Okay, so I'm gonna pick three shoes that I'm, and I'm gonna make it hard for them because I really want to put them to the test since he really knows me. My favorite color is green, so I'm gonna try to do as my best to try to incorporate as much green as possible. I've been wanting these. I don't know if this is the one yet, but I'm gonna grab it and hold on to it.  I can't help you with that. There you go. Here, hold this. I'm sorry for this bonus content. You have to buy the DVD to get this selection. This is for all the marbles. I have been shaking in my boots. It's been so close back and forth, but I think I know my wife pretty well. I hope I do. We'll see what happens. She really loves green. She likes low tops. She likes neutral colors. If she picks all those options within the different shoes, it's gonna be hard. But if not, I'm gonna have a chance. So we'll see how this goes. All right, we're ready for y'all. All right, DJ, good luck.  Oh my gosh. I'm gonna get easy on you. I'll all, because I wanna see if you really know me. Oh yeah, we gotta come over here and come over there. Okay. Okay. All right. With you. Do you know me? I'm gonna eliminate this one off the rip. I'm gonna eliminate this one off the rip. The greatest debate, the greatest debate comes to these two shoes right here. She has sweated both of these two shoes, like, insane. I don't know if I should go with my gut or my butt right now.  Oh my gosh.  You better get it right. Okay. You had this one on your thing too. Yeah. Does that mean both of y'all have the same grail sneaker? Or is hers different? It's this one. She really loves this shoe. You can't look at her.  I'm just looking at shoes. This is so hard. I told you she loves green. Yeah. He said green low tops. Yeah. Okay. All right, all right, all right enough, all right enough. I'm gonna go with the Air Force one. Damn. This one. Oh. Congratulations to the happy couple. Is it time to go shopping? It's time to go shopping. It's time to go shopping. Give me the camera, give me the camera. We're still recording? We're still recording? Hey guys, how's it going? What you want, what you want, what you want?  She's like, they got those in my phone. What are you buying from, honestly, like, honestly, like I kind of just want you to pick up the $100 wall. Yeah, go help them out, go, it's a team effort. It's a team effort over here. Come on, legit nation. Tim, I cannot believe you. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Do you guys want any post game interviews after this? Can we just, can you just buy us like some McDonald's after this? That's all I'm asking. This is cute. It's a cute shoe. It's a good pink. Then why don't you? That's been your shoe. Then why didn't you pick it when we were doing the shoe guessing? Yeah. I didn't pick this one. You're good, you're good, you're good. I didn't pick this one. Okay, okay. So we're rocking with these? So we're rocking with these? I think these. Okay. All right. Leon, can I get a... Wait, what's that? Seven. Seven? Seven men? Women. Women. Are we doing these? Yeah. How much is this one? You should put them on. You should walk out in the store, you know. I know you. And you know me. Sure, I'll go to my channel, man. Just watch all that. Hey, subscribe to his channel. He's trying to be the first YouTuber past two million subscribers. Okay, stop. He's like squeezing the shoe. Now just please click on that ad, okay? Just every ad you see, just click on it. You don't have to like buy it. Just click on it, and then we're good. I'm just sweating and joy right now. This is hilarious. Oh my gosh, he's stressing. You good or whatever? They're just getting the shoes upstairs. Can you just...  Yeah, that's nice. Just please give me one second. I'm feeling good. Feeling good. You know? A good win for my birthday. Good win for the team. Yeah. How much do you think it is? Bro, what are you doing? How much do you think it will give me for these? Oh no, they're just kind of cooks, bro. I know, but how much do you think? I don't remember that fall, honey. They buy fakes? Oh, I don't know. All right, guys. This is it for you today. So we doing a pink foam size seven. Yeah. All right, babe. You good, bro. You good. I'm all right. You all right? It's going to be a 220 and 56 when you're ready. How you doing? You good over there? She's locked in. I really have to do this. You got to do it, bro. Tim, it's for her birthday. Okay, happy birthday. Yeah. All right, man. You're good to go. You want me to email your receipt or tell her to see you? I don't even want to see it. All right, bro. Sorry, bro. Thank you, bro. Hey, man. Sorry. Give me this. Birthday. Thank you so much.  Big winner. Hey, put him on. Something is real. I'm ready to go. I've been ready to go. Our parking pass expired already. Okay, then go pay for more.  Go. That's fine. Happy birthday. Go. I like green. I like green shoes. Wow. Someone's sour. Big step, man. That's what I like to see. Tell them to subscribe so we can get out of here. Subscribe to the channel. What are you doing? What are you waiting for? I would never let you down. Yo, before you go, I just launched my sneaker head academy where we got everything on the inside. I'll give you all the stuff that I learned over the past 15 years. When it comes to sneakers, scaling, real estate, you name it, we talk about all of it in there.  I give away shoes literally way too much, honestly. Either way, I'll see you guys on the inside. Hit the link down below in my description or pinned in the comment section for DJ Sneaker Head Academy. I'll see you guys over there. Thank you.