Welcome to Hard Questions, where we gather pastors together to take on your tough questions and answer them right from the Word of God, the Bible. I'm Tom Hollis, the moderator, and today our panelists include Dr. William R. Glaze, Bethany Baptist Church in Pittsburgh, Ray Hypo Providence Presbyterian Church in Robinson Township, Pete Giacalone, South Hills Assembly guy church, Bethel Park, PA, J. Anthony Gilbert, pastor of another level in the North Hills area. Well, pastors, thank you for making the time to be here. I know you weren't doing anything anyway, but no, these guys are busy. They're busy, but they come together to answer our questions. I love it. Well, today on Hard Questions, we're taking on your questions from our hotline, and let's start with this one. When we get to heaven, when we have time, we're going to talk with Jesus, just you and Him. And there's all the, you know, billions of people that are going to be there, and I know we have eternity, but I was just wondering if there'll be times where you can talk with Jesus, just you and Him. And also, would you be able to communicate with the Holy Ghost up in heaven as well? Thank you. All right. Well, this is interesting because it has a lot to it. Go ahead. Yeah. Well, I'll stick with the first part there. One of the things, I believe, if you think about it now, you can sit in a church, a preacher can preach one message, but it feels like it's hitting everybody individually. God is a personal God, and Jesus is a personal Jesus. And so I believe that, you know, I think we're looking at like we're going to be like just me and you here talking. We're spiritual beings at that point, too. So you got to remember that God is able to be everywhere at all times. I know I'm speaking just of Jesus here, but I do believe that even if it's not one-on-one, we don't definitely know this, the Bible, but I'm just going in my own as Jay sees it. So don't make it a theology, but I believe just how he makes it personal now, he'll be personal there.  He died for every single one of us. But if you notice something, think about it, I'm sure all of us here have preached. People come to say, you are talking right to me. How is it that he takes us and makes it personal? But when we get to heaven, it wouldn't be. So I believe that he will keep it personal. We will, it says we will be loved even as we are loved, we'll be known even as he will know him, even as he knows us. So I believe that you'll still have that feeling and knowing that it's just you and him, even though everybody else might be in heaven, he's still going to keep that personal relationship with you. Yeah, I completely agree. Whatever fellowship you have with Christ now, and we have a personal fellowship with him now one to one, it's going to be so much more in heaven.   So I think that you don't have to worry about the billions, as Jay said, I mean, you're going to be in his presence and he's going to be in yours. You're going to know him. You know, I think I like your point. If we can all talk to him now at the same time, well, certainly we'd be able to that. Well, we will know. And then again, I hear these people say that, oh, I have specific questions I'm going to ask God or I'm going to ask Jesus when I get to heaven. The point is we shall know as he is known. So in other words, all those questions are going to be erased the moment we're in the presence of Almighty God. And I think like the guys have said that that the same way that he can answer all of our prayers now, some time, some way, supernaturally, we're all going to be able to still have his ear in heaven. Yeah, that's good. That's great. Yeah, I often think like on a Sunday morning, but you could take this to any time of the week. But on a Sunday morning, when you're wearing church and, you know, somebody's in China and somebody's in Africa and somebody's in Australia and everybody's praying, you know, I mean, I can't fathom in my mind. How does God hear all those people?   And so, you know, when we get to heaven, you know, it's going. But I know that when I pray that God and I have a special relationship. And I think that it's going to be the same way when we get to heaven, that, you know, we'll know that we have that special relationship with him and communicate. I mean, it's going to be so different than how we think. I mean, your question, in a lot of ways, it feels like we're at a convention and we're just a whole bunch of people. And are we going to get there? But it's different. It'll be different. It'll be even sweeter than it is right now. But thank you so much. Good question. Let's go to the next one.  And if you do, is it condoning what they are? And if you don't, is that not loving to God? Wow, it's an interesting question, interesting situation. Pete. Yeah. And I let I want all the viewers to know everybody else backed out on this question. Hey, I'm sorry. I got this. Nobody done questions around here. We don't talk things. So I got this by you remember the old three Stooges, you know, I take a step forward. Everyone took a step backward and left curly there. All right, you answer this question. Yeah, yeah, he just called us Stooges. All right. I think just because a person may have an alternative lifestyle doesn't doesn't eliminate them from having medical knowledge. So so the flat outs say because they live, then we'd have to take the step the other way that anyone who's not a born again believer, sin is sin.  In other words, if they are proficient in their field, then I have no problem receiving for them the the advice that they have to give. Now, again, Psalms one says, blesses is a man that walk if not in the counseling and godly nor standard in the way of sinners. So if we were to take that hard and fast, then we would take no advice of any non-believer. So I think that's a personal call on that one. Yeah, I really don't know. Doctors and alcohol, like I don't want them operating on me. That's a different thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, none of these uncontrolled. So any other thoughts? Any other thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, I would add that. I mean, this is it is a sin. It's a sin against nature. I mean, it's a vile sin. And but like Pete said, I mean, I'm not going to ask my carpenter. Is he a believer? I want to know if he's a good carpenter, right? I mean, let me talk about that. Can I preach for a second? I used to have people call me up in my office and say, I want a Christian plumber. Can you give me a Christian plumber? How about a Christian lawyer? And I'm thinking, if I don't need a plumber, I just want to know they come along. I don't care what they are at that point. Can you plong? But there's one other side to this, Tom. And that is, you know, a doctor is very personal. So I would encourage the person, you don't need a reason to like, I'm not, you know, I don't really care for this doctor. You should have a doctor that you're comfortable with. That's important too. So even apart from the sin question, if you know, this doctor makes me feel uncomfortable, then you should probably get another doctor. No matter what the issue is, because a doctor is a very intimate thing. So, you know, is the person able to be a good doctor to you? If they're homosexual, if they claim to be that, I don't believe there is such a thing. But if they live in sexual sin, sure they can be a good doctor and maybe you'll keep them.  By the way, I do care for my plumbers of Christian. But when you say on top of that, though, if you feel uncomfortable because of the nature of who they're saying they are, that that, yeah. Yeah, that would be illegitimate.   So, you know, I would just say that there would be that comfortability too. You know, but I'm kind of like you guys.  Christian practices medicine in the garage once in a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I just wrote a book. There's a scripture you can kind of use for that. Maybe even the one, for example, how is it okay to eat meat offered to idols and how Paul separates the worship from the service they were offering? They went to a meat, they were using that meat to offer to idols when they were serving it in the deli. He was like, well, the deli buying the meat isn't the problem, the problem is the worship. So, you're not condoning that lifestyle because you have, matter of fact, there was a dentist when I first came here that was a phenomenal dentist, but he was gay. And he was one of the best dentists in Pittsburgh. And the reason why I say this is because he was outstanding and then he passed it on to another person.   So, go where the rivers flow. Where what? And just about any service, we want competency first. To let you know how to do what you're supposed to do. So, but thank you so much for a good question, good discussion. We're gonna take a break and in 60 seconds, we're gonna come back and ask, is it a sin to play a game with a deck of cards? Put away your cards, Jay. Welcome back to the show. We're taking your calls from our hard question hotline.  We encourage you to call<PHONE_NUMBER>. We wanna hear your question. Well, you can leave it on the voicemail. We'll use it on the air. Let's go to the next one. I was recently told that playing games with cards or dice is a sin. Is this true? Well, I'm gonna ask Ray to find out if we have to cancel our Yahtzee game afterwards here. It depends on what they mean. I mean, a lot of people are plagued by this. There have been movements in, unfortunately in the church through the centuries where certain things were said to be sinful. I mean, the short answer is no. There's nothing wrong with playing game of cards or dice or going golfing or, any kind of sports, recreation, whatever, you know. But it can be a sin. It can be a sin if it becomes an idol in your life. You're supposed to be home helping your wife and you're golfing five days a week. You're neglecting your duties or it can become an idol. Even good things like your children. Well, then suddenly you put your children where they're more important than worship. They're more important than God. Now they've replaced God in your life. That's an idol. So anything in a sense, even good things can become a sin, can become an idol. But whatever you do is what Paul says, whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus. You're giving thanks to God. So if I'm out in the golf course, I should be doing it for the glory of God, being thankful for the beautiful creation that I can enjoy this wonderful time. In the same thing I would say for a game of cards. But if you're using it to again as an idol or obviously gambling would be part of it, I think gambling is sinful. So if you're trying to make money or rip somebody else off through cards or dice, yes, I think then it's sinful. But for fun, having a strategy, playing monopoly, trying to beat one another. Yeah, that's fun. We do that kind of stuff. I think it is fun. We can have our Yahtzee game then. Pete, what you see the sad thing is, people get into this where they, well, this is what the Jack represents. This is what the Queen represents. And so they want to take this deeper. And I say to those people, for those who want to dwell there, get rid of your calendar. Because if you can't paint with a small brush, because you can't call Monday, Monday anymore, if you really discover that, you got to get rid of the months of the year. So how much bigger does that really become? And guys, let's face it, there are, can I use this expression? I hope it will come across wrong. Super spirituals, that you can't use certain words. You can't, there you go, thank you. It existed in Paul's day with the Judaizers and it exists amongst us today. When people want to bring people into a box, that legalistic approach, stay away from them.  Because that was in some of the generations past, Pastor Glaze, there was a frown on. Right, and I think that going back to what Ray said, I think there was the association of those things with gambling.  Right, because if we did that on Sunday, well then, you know, the rest of the week, they're using these cards to gamble or something like that. Can I ask you that though, is gambling a sin? Is gambling a sin? I think as you define what gambling is, if I'm risking money by chance to gain money, I think that's a sin. Because we're called to trust God. And gambling encourages you to put your faith in luck. You know, and luck is often deified. So, you know, I believe that gambling is a sin. If we're putting money out, you know, risking money to gain money. You know, I think that's wrong. Yeah. But then someone even take that to the stock market, too. Yeah, well, is there a difference? I think there's a difference. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I agree. I agree, but you know, I don't know if I would go that far. I don't know if I would say definitely that if anybody ever again, somebody bought a lottery ticket, they need to go repent for a book. You know, I don't know, in my opinion. I mean, I think the Bible warns about it. I think it falls into the same places like alcohol and things like that. I think you have to be careful. I don't think people should be spending a lot of time in there, but you know, I mean, if somebody said, hey, you know, like I've seen Penny, like for example, if it's a sin to pay the lottery and somebody became a billionaire in your church, would you take the tithe? Yeah, I would take it. You sure would.  And you'd be like, so-and-so, it blessed us to build a ministry. I wouldn't do that now. I wouldn't do that. No, no, I wouldn't do that. You would have to, because everybody would know because they'd be showing up in the family. But I would, I wouldn't bring them up to say, you know, that they gambled and now.  No, no, no, no. But I'm saying, I mean, we can't be religious about like that type of stuff.  And the proceeds would be a sin too. Well, that's the thing, is there's not a clear scripture. I agree. To say that gambling is a sin. The church has always treated it that way because of what Pastor Glaze said, where you're taking your money out of your kid's miles and you're using it. And let's face it, people can get addicted to gambling in a horrible way and destroy their family in so many ways. So really good, if you want to play Monopoly though, it's okay. All right. That's good to get into the same people. The thing about the carts and the dice though, I also think to be careful what games you're playing. There are dice and carts that have demonic influences, truly. Not like regular poker games and that, but I'm talking about like, if you deal with tarot cards and things like that, those type of games and dice, you don't want to be messing with. Any kind of superstition as well. All right. Well, let's move right on here. Let's go to our next one. My question is, are there more than 66 books in the Bible? And if so, how come they're not written in the Bible? All right. Very good question. Yeah. Pastor Glaze. Well, you know, at the time when the church fathers canonized the scriptures, there were all type of writings floating around. You know, some said that Paul wrote this or Barnabas or Gospel of Thomas. You know, so there were all these writings floating around that claimed divine inspiration. But you know, God brought the church fathers together and they came together and they discovered the books that were inspired. You know, they, they didn't determine. Some people think that, well, you know, they determine which books should get in there. No, they didn't determine which books. You know, they had a set of criteria that they looked at and then they discovered which ones had been anointed by God and those were the ones that got in. And the rest of them, the reason they're not in there is because they don't have, they don't show divine inspiration.  Now there may be some good books like you look at the Apocrypha, you know, good historical books. You'll give us a good history of the inter-testamental period, but they're not divinely inspired by God. So that's why there's only 66 because those are the ones that were discovered to be divinely inspired. Yeah, good points there. I have, I did one quote on this and let me give this thought. They did have, as you said, specific criteria that they looked at and was the book written by someone who was an eyewitness of Jesus Christ? Did the book pass the truth test? Did it concur with other already agreed upon scripture? The New Testament books, they accepted back then, have endured the test of time. Yeah, yeah, good. It's grounded in history, Ray. Yeah, I agree. And interestingly, the New Testament canon, you know, we have the 39 books of the Old Testament and Protestantism. The Jews count 22, but they're the exact same books. They just, you know, have one book for Samuel. They don't count the Apocrypha. They don't count the Apocrypha. And the Apocrypha would be the inter-testamental books that, and the way I said that, the New Testament, Greek Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, we all agree only those 27 books of the New Testament. It's on the inter-testamental period, the Apocrypha that Rome and Greek Orthodox have other books that come in. But it wasn't until, and this is really important, wasn't until the Council of Trent, which took place after the Reformation, that Rome officially made only a portion of the Apocrypha canonical. And I like what Dr. Glaze said, you know, the historic Christian position is, we don't make the books canonical. We don't, you know, determine them. We receive them. The godly receive the canon. They recognized it was either from an apostle or from someone that the apostle authorized, like Peter authorizes Mark and so forth, that it agreed with the rest of scripture, and that it was also universally received, that it wasn't just in this little town or here. And that's true for all the books. And there was never a book, and you read this online all the time, it makes me nuts, but you know, oh, what about the missing gospels? There was never a time when any real group of Christians ever thought the gospel of Thomas, which is absolutely garbage if you ever read it. Jesus turning clay into birds and then making them fly away as a child, like amusing himself with miraculous powers, like some kind of myth or something. But never did serious Christians receive these Gnostic gospels. They're obvious forgeries. There was never a debate. There was a debate on things like, the letters of Clement or the epistles of Barnabas or the didache, you know, very godly written material. Like, you know, you might get a book from the J.I. Packer or something. Why, I learn a lot, but it's not the word of God. You know, so there was a debate on some things, but never on these obvious forgeries. Yeah, that's really good. Good question and good answers. Well, coming up in 60 seconds, we will ask, do all those with special needs go to heaven? Welcome back. Let's go straight to our last hotline question of this show. My question is, my daughter had down syndrome. Do special needs children call go to heaven? And when I go to heaven, will she have down syndrome there? Well, very sensitive and heartfelt question. Thank you for calling in with that. Pastor Glace. Yeah, definitely we want to pray and just ask God to continue to give you strength and wisdom as you deal with your daughter. And you know, definitely our prayers are with you. And as we, you know, look at a person with down syndrome, you know, I realized that people that haven't come to that and I know there may be some disagreement about this, the age of accountability.  They have an awareness of God, have an awareness that he's going to hold them accountable. And you know, when that person comes to that point, then I think that, you know, God does hold them accountable.  And if they don't come to that point, you know, I truly believe that the Lord has a special place in heaven for them, that I believe the blood of Christ covers, you know, all sin. And so even a person that has down syndrome, that maybe haven't made a profession in Christ, but they haven't come to that point, you know, of acknowledging, you know, their failures and shortcomings before God. And when you're, when she gets to heaven, will she be healed? Absolutely, absolutely. There's no question about that. You know, and, and again, don't stop even though they're in that state, sharing the word with them. You know, if you're going to read stories to them, then read to them the Bible also, you know, and, and just, you know, bring them along as far as you can possibly bring them along. And then we trust an infinite, almighty, amazing, comforting Father. He's the God of all comfort. I love that word Father. That really applies here. I worked in that field for a few years and I personally, there will be some and some that will not. And this is the only reason why, not to take away from Dr. Lee's point, I totally agree about that in each accountability, but there are some that have disabilities, but they openly reject Christ. And the reason why is I've talked to them, they knew I was a pastor and there were some of them that would say, I don't believe in Jesus and they would like go off. And I'm like, if you can be that vocal about him, then you can be in a place of accountability where you can receive them or not. But there are many. Matter of fact, there was one guy that I used to talk with on the job and he would say, do you think their tickets punched or not? We would talk about it at that time because he would want to know my opinion. And I'd say, no, they're not, they're not in a place of where they can make a decision. But there were some that would openly reject him and really hated the Lord. And then there were others that would carry their Bible around and believed in Jesus. All of them went to church every single week. So I think it just depends on each case. And a great ability to show love in many cases, right? Yeah, without a doubt. Without a doubt. Wonderful ability. Oh my God. Yeah, right. And I would say, to the simple question of, will she be in heaven? Everyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. And so I would teach her to believe in Christ. One of the, we have some people with severe brain limiting issues. I don't even know how to say it nowadays, but there's clearly, and they're in homes, they're in group homes, they can't live alone. And they come to our worship all the time. And I always pray with them and for them and talk to them about believing in Jesus and being saved. And I always pray that for them. And they're always, yes and amen. And I've found that sometimes the very simple in mind because of brain damage or birth defects or whatever are just very, almost like young children. Yes, I believe in Jesus. And I think you thank God for that. And so you read the scripture to them for them, you pray for them. And as Jay said, even if they're unconscious, your prayers can still save them. Even if they're completely, their brain can't even understand English, God's spirit can still give them a new heart. So you still read scripture, you still pray. God can reach them when no man can. And I think that's the comfort that we have. And as you've all said, will she have any kind of affliction in heaven? No, Revelation 21.4.  There shall be no more pain for the former things have passed away. No one will have any kind of illness, brain limitation or anything in heaven. They will be in the fullness of their humanness that should be without sin. And so will your daughter. Isn't that wonderful? I mean, it is a wonderful thing to think about that when we get to heaven, all that, all the sorrows, all the sickness, all the pain will fade away. So my question to you today is, do you have that relationship with Jesus? I know that our caller certainly did. As you're watching this program and you're hearing us talk about the scriptures, do you have that? Do you have, have you opened the door of your life and asked Christ to be your Lord and Savior and to come in, have you fallen at His feet and say, Lord, I can't do this. I need you.  Do that today if you haven't. Well, we like to end the program with a scripture and I want to read this one for everything that was written in the past was written to teach us so that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope. That's Romans 15-4. We hope you enjoyed this episode. God bless you. He loves you.


Yes, a very, very good Monday morning to you. My name is Hilda Wazidi and as you know, you're watching Why in the Morning on your Y254 channel. It is about time we delve into youth and politics to do this every Monday. And today we have a very special topic because in light of all the drama we've seen on social media when it comes to some of our leaders, we want to talk about reputation management. Here in Kenya, it appears the badder you are, the more popular you are. So before we delve into that conversation, I'd like my guests with me in studio to introduce themselves and then we can start this off. And if you do want to participate in the conversation, it's at Y254 channel on Twitter. Hashtag Why in the Morning, hashtag youth and politics if you'd like to be more specific. On Instagram at Y254 underscore channel, on Facebook Y254. So, 20. Kazi. Good morning everybody. My name is Matoke Patrikosebe, Elias Mbazada, youth governor in Mira County. Who is the CEO, compassionate part of Manti Kenya? He is humble to be around. Good morning. My name is Udi Mokwa, an undergraduate student and also an accountant. I'm glad to be in the show to talk about the youth and politics and then we talk about the reputation of our leaders. All right. Okay. Good morning. My name is Ruvinsen Tonyango, a student, also a member of Youth Appeal, I'm a CIO County Coordinator. Thanks to be here. CIO County Coordinator. Okay. Good morning guys. My name is Esther Moudoni-Irongo from Murangaa County. I'm the Vice Chair of Youth Governance in Kenya, Murangaa County, a student at Afro-Nazarene University and also doing work in Milaleh Femme. Milaleh Femme, I'm glad to see the media here. Good morning. I'm Kavi Nodiamboswago, I'm a National Coordinator in National Youth and Governance. And I also represent the Youth Republic that is in Kibra. And it's a combination of Kibra and Langata. So I'm a National Coordinator and in general I've been in politics and I've been passed in Sonu and politics is my thing and I would like to discuss more about the youth in Governance especially. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning Kenyans. I'm Kerri Mwegei, I'm a student at Kenyatta University and I come from Nakuru County. Good morning Kenya. My name is Sally Mimoni, I'm the Director Youth in Governance Initiative, Toukana Chapter. I'm a student leader and also I represent the Toukana University Student Association in the northern part of Kenya. Thank you. Good morning viewers. My name is Bonfesh Alexander Loom. I'm a former JQAT student leader as the chairman, current campus. I'm an undergraduate as well. I happen to be a former MC Aspera and I'm a Mideward and I'm glad to be here to share the issues to do with youth and Governance. Thank you. All right, Santeni Sana. So we want to ask the question, as a leader should your reputation be your top priority especially in our country? We've seen a lot of drama. We've seen people crying, people being slapped. We'd like to understand, should it be a top priority? I can comfortably say it must be because as a leader you must give the positive image. You should show people who are you, what are you able to do before anything else. So as much as my reputation is concerned, it must be the top priority as a politician. Okay. Thank you. When you talk about reputation, reputation forms part of our social virtues that you're supposed to stick with.  You have to ensure that your reputation is not questionable because when you're a leader, most of these people, most of the young people, the society, they usually look up to you. They imitate what you do. They really want to be what you are. Most of them, there are so many people who, the leaders that we have, particularly the politicians, are their role models. So your reputation should be a very good one and it should not be of a questionable character. Questionable character. If politics in Canada does that apply? Thank you. I mean just to add on that reputation, we need to go back to the constitution about chapter six of the constitution. It's very clear about leadership and integrity and integrity is, you cannot run away from that. You must behave in a manner that does not demean the office, the public office you are holding. So in this case, if your reputation is quite questionable, then you're creating a very bad scenario, a very bad precedent to the coming generation. So you have to contain all the constitution about the national values and principles of governance. They are very clear that you must be in a position that you're able to display integrity of the highest order and to be able to provide dignity to the office you are holding. So if a public officer gets into that office and then tries to behave in a manner that it's quite demeaning, then it destroys the image of the entire country. And even those in the leadership position of that rank, they tend to be meaningless. In that case, we are given the leaders who are getting into these public offices. They say mostly the politicians. We've gone ahead trying to display in public the manner that is not displaying the role they were given. A member of parliament is given very key roles to undertake, clearly stated in the constitution about representation, legislation and oversight.  You don't have to get into the office and then try to bring out your manners from the outside into the public office. That one is not qualified. Well, but in politics, vendettas are very common. I know the Kenyan society we're living in is so unique that our leaders of today, the question is, are we able to safeguard our character? There is a difference between character and reputation. When you are that kind of a leader who safeguards your reputation and then your character is questionable, then you are wrong. That is why the society is looking up to those guys or people, leaders who are now making a lot of noise in the parliament in the name of building their reputation when they are destroying their character. We need to safeguard their values. That is what you are looking to. As young people, we look at that person.  Do you have that integrity? Do you have that honesty in you that you can display for that young person who is there in the society to emulate you? That is what we need to look at. Thank you. All right. In Kenya, I might say that it's true, it's a unique society, but reputation being the key to any leader as the main character, I would say, I'm sorry to say that Kenyans forget so easily that our leaders, they get to the headlines because of the bad stories that they have, and that is what they are popular about. We don't look at what good are they doing, what did we elect them to do, as in those are the few things that we should check on. But in Kenya, I would say we are heading the wrong direction in terms of politics. Thank you. I'm glad that you talked about that because we also want to talk about a risk exposure with the rise of technology, the use of technology, WhatsApp, social media. It becomes very easy for you to be exposed, as you have seen women's rap, audios, ballet, people, and what do you do when something like that happens? I'd like to understand, is this thing causing much more risk to our reputations and for those who want to pursue leadership? Are you discouraged? Are you scared? Yeah. Okay. To me, I define or I look at reputation as a cloth that you're putting it on.  And social media escalates it, actually, because nowadays the world has been turned into a village. Remember once you've done something that is awful in the public eye, it can be viewed even with someone outside the country, beyond the borders. So even though our politicians, they prosper behind these, these what escalates, these what makes them prosper, because we've always been known, our leaders have always been known by these bad remarks and bad figures. So for example, you've seen the case of Sonko and... Pasaris. Pasaris. It's not encouraging, but you'll find it, that they thrive behind these, these the source of their pride now. They find pride when doing these, because once you are known, remember, they want something to trend. You see views and whatever, it also counts. But this spelling erode in our society, actually, when you look at it in ethical perspective, it's actually showing erode that we are having. And our leadership is actually taking another different town, where you thrive on wicked things or immoral, actually. The ground in which you strike immorality and immoral has been eliminated. So it's a playing field, and that's what now what we see, people are prospering behind that. Okay. You can't deny. Thank you. What say you? One, social media, everybody wants to have more viewers, everybody wants to have more followers. And for you to attain that, there are things that you will do to place your followers. What do they like, what do they want? And as a politician, most of them, what they do is not the right things. Like now, I don't mention names, but I want to be realistic.    And most politicians, others, they even stage mark, are you seeing? They stage manage their standards. They stage manage their other things. Most of them, they stage manage, like somebody somewhere I know, a student leader former, but now he's somewhere. Most of these things, he used to stage manage for him to become popular. Now he's somewhere else. So our reputation, as much as it's concerned with social media, whatever that we do, we stage mark some things negatively so that we can have, our names can. Because how many people do we have outside here who do good things? But have you ever seen them on social media, being praised? Whenever you try to give out of, to praise yourself, everybody's against you.  But when bad things happen, that is when they are there. My talk, hey, are you seeing? Yeah, that is the problem we have. I guess it's for me. Currently, we don't look at the reputation. It's about the money. We see the money, the amount of money you have, like some of the leaders use money, they pay the normal citizens so that they can work someone. We saw the case of some kind of passers-by. You see, they said of Sonko, there's so many people that they started shouting at passers-by. So that was, some people don't have money to praise. That's the microphone. So you see people's money for power or for not, even as the common citizens, we don't look at the reputation, the money, like someone give a hundred, fifty bob, two hundred. Then they forget about the bad thing that he or she has done. If I pick from there some, so we are talking about leaders and particularly politicians. So most of these politicians, to them in their minds, they usually have it that there is no negative publicity and there is no positive publicity. To them, publicity is just publicity. So particularly, if I quote one Nicola Machiavelli, the writer of The Prince, he says that politics know no morals. So there are no morals in politics. They are not the same. So when you see a leader thriving on something that you perceive as negative, there are some people who perceive that as victory. So for example, let me give an example of the Nairobi case that you mentioned. So here we have the governor. The governor talks about the women representative in a certain way. So the women representative in return, she responds also in the same way. She doesn't try to show that she's a little bit different. So they just do the same one and the same thing. So because because we have people who are exactly a conquer with her, that there are some people who are paid to move because not normal Kenyan who can wake up from the house and go and stand behind a leader who is giving a press conference to condemn another leader or to insult another leader. So these people mostly you'll find that they are given something so that they can be behind and even defend things that themselves they don't agree with outside the media. So what does that say about the electorate? As is the electorate. And what does that say when it comes to the future? You said there's no morals in politics from what I'm hearing. But here we have our national values. So is all that just paperwork? OK, maybe at my point, I think issue pertaining moral values. I think on my side, there is moral values. But with the electorate where the people what times give these people a chance to diminish everything and the moral values. And like, for instance, as we see, we are here, we are youths. And a number of youths are the people who are being used to also to to kill the moral values whereby a number of others are not having any jobs. We have no money. And a politician, once he has been elected to for any public office, now he uses the money to the money has gotten from the from the government to give it to the youths who have no job. Instead of giving, they use something to empower themselves. So the empowerment that they give back to the youth is the money that they have maybe we have stolen from the government or from elsewhere to use it in a wrong way to maybe to close the eyes to give us to give us that clogging our eyes so that we can be following them now and then, because once I have money and I know there are some people in particular, maybe in my country representative somewhere. And I know my people have no money. I use them, I bring them in board. I give them that something small to keep it all go. Two hundred shillings so that I may be if I if I say something, maybe if I quote a story of one of the pastor whom is well known, he says something that if I as I call, you're supposed to be there. Yeah, so this somebody also you see he has money, but he's now using the powers that has been given in a wrong manner. So we as electorate, it is up to us and as young people, we need to stand firm with the moral values that we have that we have been ever been taught since we were born. Because I think if we stand in unity, we can we can always conquer these people and let's stand that as you let's always say that there is more of values. Let's tell these people if they can't give that moral value, then we can take that moral value that they want to to to tarnish from them. So that's my take. OK. Moral values cannot be equated to anything. Even if we philosophers come and bring whatever sort of narration. I call it the moral value that we can never be changed in a in a country where we have a constitutional document that we all have to follow. You just have to do that. And that one is even in the Bible that you go to respect the authority and even there we have the constitution which we have to follow. What am I saying this that someone said if you want to say that you've succeeded in let's say in governance, then let your success succeed in that case that our society has been eroded in such a way that even the electorate themselves they are put in a position they are not in a they are not in a way to defend themselves. They are being impoverished. So when a politician comes with with with the with the money that you cannot he cannot even himself account for. The electorate will come will come running actually and then without questioning and we've seen these cases and most of the people that are used in this case are youth simply because they have not put structures in place to be able to ensure that these youth are empowered so they will ensure they are they are driving on structures that will continue impoverishing youth in this country. So you'll find that these youth are following and electing this kind of mediocre kind of politician or leaders. So we've impressed that mediocrity in leadership structures and we going forward I'm telling you the as routine so set as it is right now we are going to have even very serious politicians getting into the international assemblies, counter assemblies. And right now that's why when I started with the Constitution competence is quite key. We're here and the youth around the very much computer. They're supposed to be in these elected offices, but it's quite unfortunate you cannot be elected in that office simply because you don't have this this money. You don't you don't have that character that will will make you make you to have several followers. So they are trying to tell you that you have to try to distort your morals to be in the position that this electorate the impoverished electorate electorate electorates to follow you. What I'm saying is this it's a high time the youth of this country just come to realize that our time has come. They wake up to the realization that we have to embrace competency, people who have ideas and policies in this country. We're not going to follow up politicians who are just preaching hatred and trying to disguise that they are their leaders. I am trying to condemn that. And I'm I'm straight on this. OK, OK, please let us not consume too much time. Maybe just to finalize on the issue for the character and the technology. As somebody text me in the middle in last week, when the incident of that, our dear women represent. Yes, yes, yes, brother, what are you trying to talk? Rashid Kasim was performing the constitutional mandate that we, the people of India, is giving him. You know, that is that is a fan, a supporter of Rashid Kasim. You know, and in the case we intend to support our leaders basing on our ethnicity, basing on which tribe are you coming from, which clan are you coming from on our case in the side of northern eastern and this other region. And that is what is killing us because a system that has been billed by the government and the current government right now is trying to entrench and trying to reduce the value of that young person through the value of the people who are in that on the ground. And that is why you're seeing the issue of you see in our county like Turkana, a lot of money is being brought there. But now the value of that money is not being used because people there are a bill system that is trying to say we will only be the only people to control the economy of this of this county. So nobody really cares about the opinion or about the reputation. Anyway, it's all about the money, the clan and that's it. The only thing is power and money. So what solutions can we have when it comes? OK, for example, let me ask you because you're a lady. If you were to be in Esther Pasari says shoes and the way she responded to to the to the drama that the whole expose that happens find the damage is there. You cannot refuse. It is everywhere. It is circulating. You cannot say it is not you. What do you do when the damage has already happened? One, I would go to the court, at least for for my rights. Then from there, definitely the money will work. But at least I have at least I have tried somewhere. Then I said to some civic education to the people outside there that the girl child has to be respected. But the power money, you have to be respected. OK, we have to be respected. That's being slapped in Wajir. OK, can we please have some of the solutions? I've never had from you today. Please hear what you have to say. Yeah, the cave behind it. OK, personally, I would say to the solution of that, personally here in Kenya, going to court, I wouldn't say it is. It is the best thing to do because even the judiciary itself, it's a routine. So going to court is not really a solution. It's not the solution. The solution lies in the hands of the people because power is in the hands of the people. So like, for example, the lady who went to Horupak to campaign for she was against the corruption story and everything, no one supported her. It is until we, the youth, we go to this to those offices, we campaign against those corrupt leaders and we say they have to get out of those offices is the day we are going to have change in this country. But until then, we are still going to suffer. Well, the change begins with us because we are the source. We are the people who elected these leaders. And adding to that, I would say that youths, especially this time when we are the new currencies coming into the system, we should be very careful because these same leaders who are corrupt are going to use us to get them to wash those dirty cash so that they can still continue being in power. OK, there you can hear. Thank you. OK, the issue about, as a reputation, as I was doing my back international relations, they say that money is power and power is money. So if you ask money, you can fix anything. Yes, in national theorists, it's called the national theory and the national theorists, they say money is power and power is money. And that's why you'll see more successful people are into politics. You've seen the likes of Donald Trump. It's out of what he has that he has gotten the voice. But you can find someone on the ground just like my young fellow here. He is well competent, actually. He has all that it takes to be a leader, but due to the fact that his pocket is not deep enough, he cannot attend the seat. He cannot get what he wants. You've seen my fellow, Vaid, he said he was a contestant. Yes, I see. Do you know the main reason as to why he never succeeded? It's because his pocket was not deep enough, actually, to escalate him to such a position. So we've embraced the kind of wrong politics, per se. And it's becoming a tragedy in the country where because we have young, young people who are coming up are following these. And the likes of social media, as you've said, is the main cause to all these things because everything is in the public. It's in the public domain. And we can't deny that. So thank you. All right, thank you so much. I'd really like to hear your solutions for a damaged reputation. You have not responded to that. What solutions do you have? I can hear money has already come through. If you have money, you can fix that. What else can you do? OK, let me start by saying that a problem doesn't lie in the money. Doesn't lie in the money. A problem lies with a society that has sanitized things that the politicians are doing, not all of them. But the sanitization that we've given what politicians do when a politician gives out money, it doesn't do development projects, but gets another way to sweep us. So we we basically don't see the reason why we should oppose him because at the end of the day, he's going to come, give us money.  So sanitization is the main problem. So after sanitization, now the society has turned around. Now we we are starting to look as if you're trying to rewrite the book of lamentations because we are lamenting. We are not giving solutions because when you look at what people talk and what people write, they just complain throughout and throughout. So basically, if we are supposed to give a solution, a solution is very simple. Let us as a country implement chapter six of the Constitution, where integrity lies. All right. I want to echo my brother directly. As he said that we must echo integrity. Another solution that I can give us a person, one as the youths, we must rise and fight for our own space as the president states, fight for it. But the problem we have as youths is that we are not united. United. That is the basic problem that we have. And whenever that we want to come together or we want to forums that can bring us together, we start fighting ourselves. That's why last time I said that we are the enemies of ourselves. That's why we cannot drive as youths to rise under those seats or to have morals that can take you into those positions. So one as the youths, we must rise, rising together and fighting those faces that are affecting or that are giving us bad reputations and the politicians also. And then let us not be given something so that we when we are given, you are like today we are condemning tomorrow we are praising because if today we are saying he is certain tomorrow we are saying is God. Who are you? That's true. People need to develop a standard of who you are, what we're fighting for and maintain the status quo and fight for it until the end. Well, there's a theory that I came across that a leader who is a perfectionist or tries to be perfect to make sure that their reputation is clean and all that is not trustworthy and usually comes off as unapproachable. Do you agree with that? The Bible is clear, madam. No man is perfect. No man is perfect. As much as we want as a leader, as much as you want to keep the reputation, as much as you want to be to pay a role model to others, there are things that they must come as normal because all of us we have fallen short of there. The glaring. Yes, how do you know that? Yeah, maybe just to echo what you have said. In leadership, there is no perfection. It's only your actions that will maybe to educate the society that there is some aspect of perfection in you. And that is why we cannot we are not progressing as a society that we're living now. And to the solutions, the issue of this reputation and this other money and whatever, back in Turkana, we are trying to through youth and governance initiative. We are actually mobilizing all the young people to create that society that we need to validate our ideas. We need to come up with the project or the ideas or the initiatives that can elevate our status as young people. Because if you talk of insecurity in Turkana county or maybe other these other northern is that we have the problem of security. But now young people have been have been silent about it. We talk about education. Our people are still there. The education system in northeastern is still pathetic. We still have basic things that we need to offer. But now the question is, are we ready as young people to come up with these initiatives? Because if we are looking for a national government to offer and with the likes of the drama that is going now in the national government, in the county government, then we are we are we are expecting that in the next generation. We don't expect that, but we are trying to strive and come up with solutions and ideas. And that is why we are trying to throw you in governance initiative. I'm glad you're that passionate about Turkana in your county. You can take us back there. But to him, I want I want to thank you one for this topic has just come when I've developed something in Yemera rise for the youth of Yemera. One, we are not empowered, but we are fighting. We don't have, but we are fighting. We are fighting corruption. You yourself, you don't have anything. What are you fighting? Rise for the youth of Yemera. I've come up with that forum so that we can be united as youths first. Use the opportunities we have like the youth fund. The other week, I was at home fighting for the youth to register groups so that they can empower themselves first. When we fight, we fight as a force, not just talking in social media, but in the ground, there's nothing we are doing. So as youths, I'm encouraging you wherever you are. And those who are here rise wherever you are. Embour yourselves first and then condemn. OK, Meshimiwa, empower yourself and condemn. OK, but I still want to hear because now we have digressed. So do you believe that a leader who is perfect or appears to be perfect or tries to be perfect or you don't see any mistakes, you know, on what have you is a bit untrustworthy and unapproachable. I'd like to hear. Yeah, I guess you can approach such a person because you know, someone is giving you money like these corrupt governors. You can easily approach them, but the governor's like, for example, the one that is working and you can't share so many. We can't see scandals from also news. You can't see him on news.  So you can have the easy approach because we have some of the numbers. But some of us, like those governors, you can treat them easily because you feel no nonsense. Yeah, they fear them. They say, hey, you know, I don't think you can approach them that easily. OK, so you kind of do agree with the theory. All right. What can we hear from our MCA? At least he looks like he really wants to say something at least. OK, such such leaders there, they create a barrier with the electorate because you also create a personality that is quite interactive. You're quite a you're able to talk to the people. You're able to interact with the people so freely. For example, my governor, Oparanya. A weekly. Yes, weekly for Paranya, they see the chairman of Council for Governors. He has done well so far. And I think that's why he has earned that position of the chairman. And by the interaction and also interaction with the people. I think that's what gave him the second the second term as he goes out. I'm informed that he also wanted to be the president of this republic. I wish him well. OK, please, let us not campaign. To leave us the answer to that. That's OK. That one aside, the truth is that he's a man of the people and I've seen such like people, such like governors, they're there. Mm hmm. You only need to get into the office and get what you want. There's no need for you to fear, especially when you know what you want. So as a person who voted for such a leader, like, let's say, one, it could be an introvert, yes. But again, but again, you know what you want from that, from that, from his leadership. And if there is something that you really need to worry in his country, you just need to get to get there. So I'm encouraging you, any other person. I'd like to have a theory of motives. That's when you'll feel you'll feel some fear. Exactly. OK, OK. Let me hear. Oh, great. Yeah, yeah. So maybe if also I give an example with my governor back in Syria, I think most of the time he has not been in the media. And like also is that kind of person whom you know, you know, easy that you just go get money from him. So you have to have a structure, a criteria. You have to have something, a policy, which if you address to him, he can also address to you in a positive way, not in a negative way. So so we have to look at this kind of governors and kind of people who are in power, who can empower us in a positive way. Also, I have at my constituency level, my MP, Mr. Elisha, is trying to bring more of the development. He found some infrastructure going on is still on with them. As much he has not been, he has never been in that line of politics for long. But you see somebody who is a full of of enthusiastic and is trying his level best at least to bring change in the in the constituency level. So we need also as like young people, we need to stand with these people, we need to identify. And follow the example. Yeah, example. We identify these governors, these politicians, these leaders who are really striving to help, help in development, help empower young people so that maybe, as you say, I know you said there's no politics here or campaigning, but it is good. It is good we echo these people because when some good does something right, it is good to echo them and give them a hand too. Yeah, thank you. I like that, I like that, give them a hand, I appreciate that. OK, so it's about time we conclude this segment. Fortunately, yes, yes, yes, so I just have maybe, maybe a parting shot from you. OK, let me, let me, let me, let me start by saying that we've had a good discussion that is good. But as I've said, the problem with us lies in sanitizing what we are lamenting about. So if we stop sanitizing, we'll have the solutions. And the solution lies with the people and lies in the constitution. Thank you. All right, the solution, the constitution and the people. Turkana, I'm sorry. Much OK. I need to talk about that. Maybe you can find us. Fear not, stand out, fight for your own space as a youth. It's a good repetition. First, before you fight others. Have that integrity that you are telling others to have. Tell them what is supposed to be done. Criticize positively. Then you are a leader to PM rest. I don't say let's, let's not be cheap. Let's focus with what you are getting to get. Let's not be cheap. I like that. I really like that one. As my final conclusion is that let's avoid party politics. It's also bringing is the main route to all these bad reputation. Because once you are affiliated to a certain party, you have a sure deal. However much your reputation is dented. So these really disable to us and the kind of leadership we have. Great. As a final, as I would say, together we stand a party fall. So it's time with the youth we stand and we fight for our rights. My query goes and my message actually goes to all the young people that we need to safeguard the character and not the reputation. You safeguard your character and not the reputation. And my message to the young people across the country of North Eastern or maybe Turkana is that we need to validate our ideas, come up with projects, initiative that can create development in our social, economical aspect of the Turkana people and maybe the Northern Eastern part of Turkana and those are the areas. Thank you. Thank you very much for representing them today. MCA please, we have to give me a break now. So we have to stop and we need to pave the way for Man Talk. So my name is Hilda Wadidi. You've been watching Youth and Politics. Please do not go anywhere. We do this every Monday. Thank you guys so much for coming. I know some of you come from very far. I'm Santia Nisana. Blessings upon you. And all right, have a good day. Thank you. Thank you.