inga mana, inga reo, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa miunga mihi nui kia koutou, kātika, ki te kaupapa o tērā nei, ae, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā tātou katoa. Kia ora everybody. I've just made a brief greeting in Te Reo Māori which is the indigenous language of my home. I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the Tāngata whenua or the original people of this land. Sadly, I don't know who the original American Indian tribe is of this New York region, but I would welcome these ancestors and thank you all for being here this morning to hear me talk. And this talk and this exhibition is made possible by the Elizabeth Sackler Centre and I'd like to thank the staff and volunteers who've been doing a marvellous job in looking after a group of women. I call it the Estrogen Rising Team, so thank you very much. I'd like to start this presentation with the image of Mahauika, which is in this particular exhibition, Global Feminisms, and we've been asked to give a context to our work and I would like to talk about what this work is about in terms of an architectural sense. Within this exhibition, Mahauika looks like a portrait, but in fact it's my replication of representing an ancestor. Generally, our ancestors would be carved in wood and you can see some examples of that in the Pacific exhibition, the Pacific area in the Brooklyn Museum. And just while I'm talking about the Pacific collection, a couple of people have been asking me what I'm wearing around my neck and this is a very contemporary version of a haitiki. And downstairs there's a very, very beautiful haitiki in one of the cabinets. It's a Nephrite or Ponamu, it's our New Zealand jade. Every image that's down there is of somebody, always of an ancestor. So Mahauika sits on a stool. She's talked about as being part of the underworld and in my vision of her, I've kind of contemporised what this underworld is. Often she's presented in a sort of a natural native setting of New Zealand bush, but my Mahauika sits on a Marseille Brewer chair. Pleased to say that there's two original Marseille Brewer chairs on show, also in the Brooklyn Museum.  So I wanted to update my version of my Maori goddess by presenting her in this century in 2007 thinking about what does she look like? What does she mean and what does she say? Mahauika is the fire goddess. There's a story of her grandson Maui, who's a trickster figure, who goes to meet her and ask her for her fingernails because contained within each fingernail on her hands is fire. The trickster figure is always a naughty person. So when Maui went down to see Mahauika, he asked her for her fingernail and she holds it up. It's almost like a beckoning. It's the first time that she's seen him. She sniffs him out. She can smell him in her presence and asks him what he's after and he asks for a fingernail because they've ran out of fire on Earth.  After giving her Maui nine of her fingernails, she plucks out the last one and throws it at him. She throws it into the bush and Maui has to turn into a bird to flee the fire and the heat from this rage that she has beset upon him. One of the stories behind this myth of Mahauika and Maui is there's the Mahaui tree. There's one tree in New Zealand that you can rub together and through that you can make sparks and create fire. I'd like to acknowledge Fiona Foley who's sitting in the audience now and just in terms of setting up a difference, people can never quite tell the difference between New Zealanders and Australians with their accents and the place. They are very, very different spaces. For instance, my knowledge is aboriginal people. They create fire by rubbing downwards whereas with Maui, we build a canal and kind of make very, very fast to create these sparks. So fire is really important because it brings more, it feeds us and we need it for the community. So communities are very, very important in New Zealand. And Mahauika is just one ancestor in a suite of works called Digital Morai. So this is not a portrait. This is a representative image of a form that would be held within a Whare Nui. And a Whare Nui is probably quite akin architecturally to the Longhouse which you see in Canadian Indian architecture. And within these kinds of spaces is where we gather to spend time together to debate, to laugh, to cry, to sing, to share information and knowledge. This is Hiniwai who is very young in comparison to Mahauika. Mahauika, I'll just take that slide back because I did want to say a little something about the model. This is my father's elder sister, Rongel, and she passed away last year. So this work has gained in a different kind of significance photographically because it becomes a memento. But also this image particularly means a lot to me because it's a familial image and she was the first image in the series of Digital Morai. So I felt like I had to anchor the series of works with an older person. And with Hiniwai who comes next, this is kind of much more futuristic and moving into another direction. Hiniwai is the youngest sister of Hinipukohurangi. I don't have the image on my PowerPoint presentation, but it is available on the website, the Global Feminisms website. And again this is about family ties and the care between sisters and looking across generations. I suppose my work in terms of thinking about this notion of feminism, these particular works, their provocation lies in the fact that most morai are carved and made by men. So in using photography and the computer as my carving tool, I am able as a woman to navigate my way through an area that would usually be done by men. It's quite a provocative thing to do. And I think that within this larger exhibition the sense of how this work sits is quite different because you're seeing one image from a series of five. At present I'm working on a series of male portraits and I'm also working on a series of takatapoi portraits. Now takatapoi is a Māori term that very loosely translates to transgender or friends, very, very close friends of the same sex. It has quite a different sense how we might understand it in the Western terminology, but for me a Māai morai, a Māai place for my community, it's really important that it's inclusive and that all people feel welcome and there's a place for everybody inside the house. Basically what these photographs are, are a series of building blocks and in the year 2020, I'm slowly creating the various architectural forms to put these together. Well really I'm on my three minutes up. Ah, so fast. And to take this back, I suppose before I began the series of portraits I had to make works that are based on textiles. These are some dresses, some fabulous 1970s dresses that I wore a few years ago now, which I've filmed and videoed and recombined into grid-like forms, grid-like structures, so that they reference Māori weaving called tukutuku. They act as panels, so what you need to do is imagine these portraits actually sit between each of these panels. When my marae is put together it's an incredibly symbolic and decorated space that is created. It's been a life work and I've been moving towards that for probably the last six or seven years and I've given myself a lot of time because I like to move very slowly. And I also feel it's important not to just put lots and lots of work out in the world. I like that each work has a reason for being. I think there's a lot of stuff in the world and what I want to put in there I feel very strong about that it's worthy to be seen. I'm just going to quickly, because I've run out of time, show you a work called The Colour of Sin and I'm just showing this because my mother was a hairdresser in Hillsborough many, many years ago and I had wanted to make this work for a very long time. I do a lot of installation and I work with film and video and sound and this is an opening where three of my girlfriends are sitting inside these crazy retro, raunter hairdryers and they're really beautiful sound domes and I have a piece of sound that you can hear what plays inside them on the website. So I invite you to look at that at some time and I should round this up for a few minutes of fame. It was really fast 15 minutes is not quite enough I think warhol meant 15 hours perhaps, something like that. Anyway thank you very much for listening to my talk.


Felly, gwaith i'n gwybod, a gweithio i chiwplo'r TV. Felly, rydyn ni'n gwybod golfa ac yn ymwneud o Fforgolf Chester. A rydyn ni'n gweithio'r fideo yng Nghymru yn y fwy yma ar y cyfnodol, sy'n ymwneud i 500 vs y P790, felly y Pym vs y Taelor yn y bydd yn ymwneud ymwneud. Y 500 yn ymwneud i'w gwybod y pethau, felly mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'r Fforgolf Chester i'ch gwaith eich gyfn gryf angen a fydd yn gweithio'r Fforgolf Chester. Mae'n rhai fath o'r cyffin hwyl ar gwell, mae'n ffrif arall. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'n gweithio eich cyffinion ar gyfer ei hunain, mae gennym ni'n i ffeld o'n ymwneud o'r cyffin oherwydd sy'n ymwneud hyn ar hyn, felly mae'n gweithio'r ffyrdd cyffin o'r cyffinol.  Pwysig yng nghylch ar y ffordd fel yw ddysgu'r ffordd i gyfnodol, ac mae'r ffordd i gyfnodol. Mae'r rhai 30.5. Wrth gyd yn gallu yn fwy ffordd i'r 500 ar y cwymiddor pwysigau a'r ffordd i gyfnodol, rydyn ni'n gyd yn ddiforol, ond mae'r ffordd i gyfnodol o'r ffordd i'n gyd yn gyd yn ddysgu'r ffordd, is always nice so I'm going to throw up some images of the two worth pointing out that this stays if you want the in-depth reviews of both of these clubs then I suggest you watch their individual videos because all we're going to do today is I'm going to hit a number of shots very very shortly trying to get I don't know six seven eight nine maybe 10 shots with each we've got a fair old comparison and this is really looking at a couple of things it's really looking at performance and then feel because the looks is very much something that is down to the individual I'll talk about it but like I said that's very much I think a personal preference thing on these two clubs but we will start with that we'll start with how they look so a couple of images up on screen now for you there's a lot of similarities with these clubs one has a sort of satin matte finish I think it's the chrome finish that the i500 is it's a matte finish whereas the ping slightly shinier you can see that sort of strap that band with a piece 790 on nice bit of shiny chrome but in effect it's a one piece iron in the fact that there's no cutaway there's no cavity in the back whatsoever and like I said minimalistic in terms of the markings on these clubs everybody has gone very much down this minimal look right now very clean looking golf clubs and I think both really attractive golf clubs like I said it's down to the personal eyes to which you prefer so before we go too much further let's look at these clubs from the top line and a lot of similarities I would say the piece 790 has that slightly thicker leading edge top line slightly more compact look on the i500 but again minimal I would say in the differences between the two if we have a look at these and I'll throw these images up now if we look at these face on you'll see that the overall profile of the i500 to me seems slightly bigger in terms of the actual face itself seems slightly higher at the toe end but like I said when the clubs are sat behind the ball not a great deal of difference and it's very much down to the personal eye so it's down to now what to do again both got these forge faces in both hollow body construction one has a foam injection in it how much difference does that make we're going to find out and I hit some balls wait for that lawn mower to finish and then we'll have a little bit of a further chat and discussion so we'll start with the piece 790 like I said for me it's been really good club from TaylorMade this year I think it's ticked a lot of boxes and I think it's as from what I can gather been a real big seller and a popular club for TaylorMade and there's lots of reasons why it's kind of plenty forgiving nice looking got decent bit of feeling there it's getting plenty of yardage out there and support and help for people who are looking for it there's it takes a lot of boxes um and like I said for me it's in the bag in the in the longer irons good start with the piece 790 hit some more golf balls and then we'll move over onto this i500 and then look at some numbers right so onto the i500 and I think for me this is this it is without doubt a neater looking profile so if something that you're looking for is that more compact head if that plays a major part in your choice of iron then I would say i500 ticks the box and it's certainly more compact in looking it certainly looks like that player's iron let's see how it performs first thing that I notice and I'm going to talk about the ball flight performance in terms of what it's done is fine I have a major issue with the sound of the i500s I'm afraid and that's first ball in I don't want to start off on too much a negative because but it will certainly creep into my assessments at the end because straight away one ball in it's the first thing I notice like I said I just don't like the sound I'm afraid that this hollow body construction without the injection of the foam is the only logic I can pour on it between why the difference in sound is so much because it literally does sound like a hollow club one more ball while the camera's on and I'll see if that changes at all but I'm not I'm not feeling that sound at all that's a super shot I know whether you can pick it up on camera whether the the the noise is as a parent between or the difference in noise between that and the p790 I don't know but like I said for me it's the one issue that I pick up on straight away anyway carry on it in some golf balls and like I said sit down have a look how these two compare in dry ball data at least right so that's golf balls hit and let's get straight into the numbers and then we'll talk about my overall opinion on what's the difference between these two clubs although I think I've given clue already but let's start off with the numbers from the i500 one thing this does I think it's worth noting let's before I put those numbers up you notice my spin number has changed in recent videos quite considerably really probably about a thousand revs maybe even more on average I don't think that's all necessarily down to the clubs if you're watching my videos for quite some time then you have to bear in mind that there's been some swing changes that have allowed my spin number to rise a little bit probably lost a little bit of distance as well but just bear that in mind if you're a long-term viewer the clubs aren't all of a sudden producing mega spin I don't think um anyway spin number six eight's very very good and very very similar to last week's testing carry distance of on average 153 again probably about four five yards shorter than what I was achieving in last week's video but then swing speed was that little bit faster as well so very much consistent in terms of the video performance from last week we've got peak ice 87 feet launching at 18.3 ball speed of 113 very consistent ball speed only the last shot dropped off there to 108 the others between 111 and 114 I think again the one thing I'd say about the I 500 is consistent performance if we look closely at my at the club face as I always say with the average golfer and the handicap and the level of golf that I play I'll be finding all around that club face I don't care what anybody says there is definitely support across that club face and consistent performance across that club face from these clubs that we've seen over the last couple of years and the I 500 does that very very well indeed so consistent very very consistent in performance let's start the numbers now for the P790 so it's a again identical loft identical shaft this one slightly lower spinning on average 6249 but again with 799 absolutely fantastic and compare that to what I was testing a year ago for me personally a spin number up by quite considerable amount is that is good to see 152.9 again almost identical in the yardage clubhead speed was identical with this as well on average so again very good comparisons peak height 84 as opposed to 87 we're talking on average here don't forget 18.1 launch as opposed to 18 launch again identical 111 ball speed 113 ball speed through a couple in there are three of their ball speed dropped off to 108 and again I think all this really shows in terms of the two sets of numbers is very much it's all about the strike that is put on the ball by the individual so the clubs themselves I think performance wise very very similar indeed ball speeds drop off at certain times and that will be to do with the strike position on the club face however they don't drop off to a level and performance doesn't drop off to a level that you see in massive differences in performance so again shortest ball on the p7 90s was 146 longest ball 157 there's a 10 yard gap but there'll be a big difference in performance on strike I don't know what level of golf you play at but I can certainly live with that and accept that when I hit a bad shot if it's 10 yards shorter than my best shot that's not doing too bad whatsoever as long as dispersion is good let's throw that chart up as well I tended to be a little bit straighter but you can see yet again average golfer average performance pretty much sprayed them all over the place and what you'd expect from my kind of level of golfer we can't really I don't think pinpoint anything in terms of the club's performance there but again what I would say is consistency in terms of that front to back number with both clubs has been very very good indeed so the overall assessment is this I think two really good performing golf clubs that take a lot of boxes they there is forgiveness in both of those club faces they are compact the slightly more compact is the i500 looks is very much down to the individual I don't know I don't know which I'd prefer to be quite honestly I quite like the look of both of these clubs I think that in terms of the only major difference for me and I've said it in the video so there's where the there's no secret here is the sound it's just there's a much better sound for me on the P790s and I really do believe that's because of the of the injection of the foam material that's in the P790s that's what seems to be the obvious reason it is that less hollow sound but it's a massive difference for me and it's why I would choose the P790s as opposed to the i500s and I think the next thing that we will see in the next release probably next year from Ping is you will see that the first thing we'll say is improved acoustics that'll be their big thing that they go for there'll be some kind of dampener in there for the sound and I think once they've done that they've got a real winner that's ticking every box so if you're interested in either these sets of clubs as ever these heads of heads for me they're a bit of a I don't know novelty kind of thing it's all about strike on the day but I hopefully give you a bit of a guide as to at least my thoughts on it you can see this very much very little difference between these two clubs for me right across the board it's all about like I said you getting out there you getting custom fit you trying them seeing what you like the sound of what you like the feel of what you like the look of which is a note pretty obvious stuff but that's the way that clubs should always be purchased as ever if you like the video then please hit that thumbs up always appreciate any kind of feedback so comments in the comments box below and subscribe if you don't already and I will see you very very soon that's me done see you soon


All right, in today's episode, we're going to talk about can you look like a bodybuilder without steroids? I don't know what to guess. I think the- Well, there was a time when bodybuilders didn't even have access to steroids, right? Yeah, we needed to define this because to be very clear, we'll just say this early out right now, you cannot look like a bodybuilder without taking steroids. But the good news is I don't think most people want to look like pro bodybuilders today. I think that's pretty rare, right? I also think it's important to note too that even more so than steroids, those are genetic anomalies. Oh, that time, yeah. I'm glad you said that. I mean, so people need to understand that, like I referred to Ronnie Coleman and the Flex Wheelers and some of these crazy physiques, a lot of people didn't realize or didn't see what they look like before they took steroids, and they were crazy physiques. And so yes, antibiotics enhanced that and made it even crazier and has raised the bar in the bodybuilding world to now where a majority, if not all, are on antibiotics, especially in the actual bodybuilding category. I still think there's some men's physique athletes that compete at the highest level that are natural. We have friends that did at least up into about two years ago were 100% natural on the Olympia stage in men's physique. So it's very much so possible to have a physique that looks like that at that level of a bodybuilder competitor and be natural. It's not the steroids that make them look like that. No, I want to define this a little better though, because it's true though that the average person has no desire to look.  But if you took bodybuilders from the silver era of bodybuilding, this is like between the 1940s and 1960s. And yes, I know bodybuilding historians will say, well, there are steroids back then too. Most of them, many of them didn't use them. And if they did, the doses were so, so, so low. They would actually be, they wouldn't even be considered testosterone replacement therapy. That's how low the anabolic were back then. But they that those physiques are very achievable naturally. And if the average person looked at pictures of those people, I think they'd say, wow, that looks pretty amazing. Like Steve Reeves is a great example, right? V taper, great development, wide shoulders, strong muscular, Larry Scott, the first Mr. Olympia, Sean Connery. I don't know if you guys knew this. He competed in bodybuilding. Sean Connery competed in bodybuilding in the, in the silver era. And there's a picture of him posing or whatever. Oh, I got to check that out. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's pretty, pretty wild. And I guys, my hero for sure. Clancy Ross is another one. You can look all these people up for yourself to kind of see what they look like. Now that is very achievable through, you know, really consistent, good training and diet and exercise. And we'll talk about that. Today's program giveaway maps, PED, that's our most advanced bodybuilder program, super high volume, double split routine, only for those of you that are hardcore. Anyway, you can get that. That's what you got to do though. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comments section.  If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. Before though, we get to that. We should all, we should define kind of the history of bodybuilding and, and, and what that's based off of like, why do we consider those kind of physiques to look good? Why does it look good? Or why are we attracted to, or why does a luring to have a physique like that? I think that's an important discussion. Was Eugene Sandow, was he one of the first examples of like, like where you started to really pay attention to the overall physique of the strength athlete, not just, you know, their feets that they were presenting. Yeah. Well, you, you point to the evolutionary theory around that it's really just an exaggerated version of that, right? If a small waist, broad shoulders, low body fat percentage is a representation of a healthy person who can reproduce, then when we look at bodybuilding, it's just the exaggerated version of that. Now we know that it's exaggerated so much that it's moved into the unhealthy range, but to the eye, that's what is appealing. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Cause you know, shoulder to waist ratio can predict testosterone levels, fertility, functionality, performance in men. You, it's an example. It looks healthy. You can get lean and look healthy. You can get too lean and not look healthy, right? You can get muscular and look healthy. You get so muscular, you don't no longer look healthy. Do you think that other, you know, pointing to your evolutionary theory too, do you think that there is even like a protective component too? Like there, is there to attract the opposite sex, you look like you could protect this family, your baby. And so seeing this strong muscular male also isn't just about reproductions, also about, you know, safety. Of course it's function. Like if you look at some, like if you, to take the same person, less muscular, higher body fat percentage, more muscular, lower body fat percentage, all within healthy range and everything else being equal, the more muscular, stronger version is going to be better, better at protecting, better at hunting, providing. And they even show this in the, in the, in the modern world, right? Modern world, you don't need to throw a spear to catch lunch anymore.  But data shows that when people are more fit, they also earn more money. The more successful, they're less likely to be sick. So across the board, you know, there's, there's very good reasons to be attracted to this look and kind of seek it out. And, you know, I think that's again, and you mentioned them, right? White shoulder, small waist, balance development. This is important. Bal, I would say balance development is probably the most bodybuilding feature of bodybuilding. Yeah. Right? Like all of the strength sports, the way the body's developed is an afterthought, right?  Which is funny, because that's one of the things I think that gym culture and like bodybuilding specifically, like when your legs didn't match your upper body, it stood out so much, it's like you're skipping leg day. It's just one of those things, noticeably something that's off. And so too, to promote like strength function and actually put those muscles into action, having a balanced physique, having muscles that reflect actual power movement is important.  And I've shared this before on the podcast, and this all came from my journey to compete, was when I got leaner, and for the first time in my life, getting the compliments of looking bigger. And I remember my, for as a young kid who was insecure about his physique, I was a lot of that was attached to my arm size, right? And that was all I trained when I was like a teenager, just trying to, I wanted big arms. So one of the first things that I saw shrink down when I got fit, got lean was my arms. And so the insecure side of it is like, Oh my God, I'm getting smaller and smaller.  And I think a lot of that had to do with the proportions of my body started to, to, they became more symmetrical as I started to compete. And I realized that, oh, wow, like I was allowing my insecurity to drive the even the way I program and train myself, because that's what I thought needed to look better. But in reality, when I was being judged on stage, they want to see balance more than they want to see the biggest arms on stage or the biggest chest or the biggest legs. Like, that's where they, you'll get, because almost everybody gets on stage. It's got a great physique. Everybody has muscles.  So that's all the same. But where the defines the first place guy and the last place guy is the symmetry, the balance and how well you can balance and how and that's appealing to the average guy, whether they realize it or not. You just said it, right? A balanced, developed physique will look more impressive to the average person than a physique that is not balanced with an extreme body part or two. And this is, this is kind of, I wish I knew that though. Like I wish someone told me that when I was 17, 18, and I was, you know, again, doing bicep curls five days a week neglecting everything else. Yeah, neglecting all that. I would have been far better off evenly distributed. And I know some people say that, but I don't think they really explained to like that insecure kid that you will actually look better. Like that would have got to me if you would have said that, right? Like if you would say, like, no, your, your arms bleed or not will look better if you did more of your legs. Your chest will look better if you did more of your back. Like if they would have communicated that to me, that my overall physique would look more appealing and better if I actually evenly balanced. You know, it's interesting too about this is that symmetry and balance is closely connected to health. So symmetry is very important for beauty. So when they say someone attractive, they can be like a test and they can find the symmetry of the face and the more symmetrical the face is, the more beautiful it looks, but they've also connected it to health, the health of someone's DNA, their propensity for chronic disease. In fact, it's so, it's so important for overall health that if you injure one side of your body, if your arm is in a cast and you exercise the other arm, you'll lose less muscle than if you never are in the arm that's in the cast and if you never did anything at all with the other arm. That's how the body communicates with itself to maintain balance because if you're strong in balances, reduce function tremendously. Regardless of how strong your quads are, if the difference between your quads and hamstrings is so great, you can have the most powerful quads in the world, you just tear your hamstrings and hurt yourself when you try to exert force. So balance is very important and, you know, without knowing it, bodybuilding, you know, scored balance very highly. And again, it's because it reflects overall health, but the average person through the things that we're going to talk about can definitely achieve a more bodybuilder look to their body with wide shoulders, smaller waist, develop muscles, function, balance, leanness. Like you can definitely do this, but the first thing, we'll start with the first one. This is the most important. I put this one as number one because developing a physique takes a long time and it takes extreme ridiculous consistency. Above all else, it takes extreme consistency. Building muscle takes a long time. Well, I would say this is probably the sport of bodybuilding in general, right? It's like, how disciplined can you be? And that's outside of the actual practice in the gym. Like, yes, that's an important part. The training involved, too, but it's everything included, the diets, the nutrition, it's the sleep. It's everything that's fostering the best version of, you know, the way to grow and build and develop muscle and have it look a specific way. I know all of my athlete friends hate to hear bodybuilding compared to a sport, but the truth is I had the opportunity to do both, right?  It was just don't turn it off. You don't have a day off.  I mean you have to be dialed like literally every single day for every meal for a long period of time, not for a season, not for three months. Like I had to put years, I had to string years to get, to build a competitive physique. Maybe you can get ready for one show and just get, you know, get up on stage and say you did it in three months of dieting and training, but if you're going to win at that level, you're going to be good at it, which is what I wanted to do. It took years of competitive consistency around diet and training and that part of it made it feel like a sport. Well, look, if you take the average man who's let's say not exercising, works at the office job or maybe goes to school, doesn't do any strength training and says, hey, I want to look like a bodybuilder, okay? They're probably going to have to add maybe 20 to 25 pounds of lean body mass to their bodies, okay? That takes years that doesn't happen. It doesn't even happen in one consistent year. It takes years, like the first consistent year you may gain about 12 pounds of lean body mass. Then it falls off a cliff and then you're lucky to gain three or four pounds a year of lean body mass. So you're talking three, four years, two at the absolute least of absolute dogged consistency. For a female to want to develop a balanced muscular lean physique with round glutes and ham strings the whole deal, she's probably going to have to gain something like 13 to 17 pounds of lean body mass for a woman that will take, and I'm talking lean muscle, not water and body fat and all that stuff, like real contractile tissue, takes years and years and years and its consistency. That is the one thing with bodybuilders that is different than, Adam, you said it perfectly. The thing that is the most different about bodybuilders of any other athlete or sport or strength sport or anything else is the ridiculous insane 24-hour day consistency. That's why I put that. And you got to have a lot of faith in belief in what you've decided is going to be your program and diet because in that time there's going to be a lot of times where you feel like you're not seeing progress and that's psychologically that's really difficult to stay the course when the plan is to shape or sculpt this physique into a winning physique on stage and you feel like you have strings of time that maybe last week sometimes of looking like you're going backwards or not progressing and then to still stay the course and be consistent. That is really, really tough to do and I think that's where most people fall short. I think most people fall short even in their normal pursuit forget competing at the highest level and getting on stage. I think it's the same thing that trips up a lot of people and their weight loss goal is their they got a plan, they're being consistent. Maybe they saw a little bit of change in the beginning, they're excited and then the excitement wears off and then they hit a plateau or they don't see change for a week or yet they're putting in all the work still and that's where most people say effort and they give up and they go back the other way. You need the longer look it because it takes a long time you have to be more precise and planned right because if you're off the target by a little bit I mean you stretch that out over a year or two you're going to be way off so a plan is very important when it comes to what we're talking about. The next point is you have to understand and you'll hear this a lot in the strength training world right or to fitness world progressive overload right. Now most people think progressive overload just means adding weight to the bar getting stronger that is progressive overload but progressive overload is not just adding weight to the bar it's adding reps it's adding sets it's being able to add intensity some exercises with the same sets and same intensity is just going to be more of an overload than other exercises it's also knowing when to apply more and when to pull back a little bit the important thing to look at progressive when it comes to progressive overload is the big picture though right because the big this is this is how I screwed up a lot in my in the early days of my personal training is I thought progressive overload meant every single time I worked out or every single week I worked out that's a fast track towards overtraining and injury and it was always linear no it was this like clear path of just like I just keep scaling up up up up up no no it's literally like I can add a little bit now see how that works do I feel good no I don't back off a little bit do it again and over time it looks like a step ladder of progress but what you should do is over the course of your two or three year journey of this is you can see clearly okay I did progressively overload over that period of time yeah I think one of the most important parts of understanding this is is learning to is to be able to track your volume and understand your your behaviors around it like so when I when I got into competing it was the first time I ever tracked volume I never tracked volume I never cared to never was that competitive enough to where this makes sense obviously if I'm in the sport of improving my physique month over month show over show okay this makes sense that I'm going to really get into this and the the thing that was most glaring to me was just like when I do nutrition I don't like go right into like here's the plan of how I'm going to progress the overall I'm like let's just track let's see what my normal habits are and what I do and what I found is that and which I've found this in my clients afterwards is that we we all kind of have this natural ebb and flow with our life of of over progressive overload or volume is you're you're feeling good you're sleeping good you're you're you're hitting things and you're and you're like slowly you know adding weight to the bar adding sets or reps in all these different ways of progressive overloading and then the inevitable happens where you kind of fall off or you get busy or you miss a workout here there and when you pull back what I would what I found out was like oh wow I'm pretty much doing the same amount as what I was three months ago I just it just but it felt like in my head because I had just counting those hard that's right I'm counting those sprints I had those moments where like oh no I know I ramped that intensity up or I knew I hit a PR but then when I pulled back and looked at it I was like oh wow your body has this really interesting thing how it just kind of naturally gravitates to homeostasis or what's normal for you and you really have to be mindful if you want to methodically do this you know month over month or you know a year over year or whatever and have that approach and so the rule that I kind of had when I was doing this was that just don't go back Adam like let's track volume let's base off how you feel like you were saying so as I would come into a new week I knew what I did volume wise the previous week and then this week it was just like don't go backwards and if you can let's inch forward a little bit and I just kind of had that mindset every single week and then when I would pull back over a month or two months there would be this natural progressive overload in that time yeah the two mistakes I made with progressive overload were as follows the first one was not realizing that higher rep sets even though the weight was lighter would typically add up to far more volume so for example if I did 20 reps with 200 pounds on the bar that's going to be more volume than three reps with 350 pounds on the bar even though I'm lifting way more weight the volume is so much higher so the way you calculate volume and for the most part within reason this works because if you go extreme then yeah it doesn't work someone could say well if I did what if I did five pounds for 10,000 reps or something like okay we're talking within reason within what would be considered the rep ranges for bodybuilding which is between let's say one to 25 right you go sets times reps times weight and that's your total volume and when I didn't do that what I would do is count sets I didn't look at anything else I looked at the weight on the bar as if I was getting stronger but it was about sets so I said well I'm doing the same volume as I did last week I'm still doing 12 sets for shoulders last week I did 12 sets for shoulders why do I feel so fried well it's because now I went lighter but did so many more reps that the volume went through the roof I didn't count it because the weight was lighter that's not how volume works it's sets times reps times weight the second mistake I would make is when I would progressively overload and this is a huge mistake a lot of people don't understand this is I would increase the volume on everything at the same time I'm going to do two more sets for every body part rather than adding a little bit of volume in one area and leaving it alone all of it taxes the body so I can't you can't go into your workout and progressively over that's like way too much all at once in fact oftentimes when bringing up a weak body part if your body's not ready to add more volume then all you do is take volume away from another body part and add it to the body part you're looking to build up that's those are the biggest mistakes I made with that's why I felt like the what I had pieced together from this tracking and going through this process was like just don't go backwards Adam make sure you accomplish what you did the previous week and then if you felt good let's take let's take a little bit a step forward in an air and I typically would pick areas that I was trying to develop right I'd be running something like maps aesthetic I'd be trying to develop one or two different body parts and so that's where I would add a little bit of that volume I'd just focus on that area and I would only do it when I felt good when I felt like okay I have my body can handle more okay and then and then not make the mistake of overreaching right because that's the other thing that we do is just like oh I feel good so then you train everything to failure that day at the workout or you add like five more sets it's like dude you just need to go up a little bit a little bit more and weight a little bit more volume and that could be weight it could be reps it could be sets not all at once yeah just because I would do the same thing add a set or two plus add weight way too much all at once so the next one too I mean this one for me I I never really cared too much about like how presenting my physique and and you know getting to the point where I'm like you know pumped up and juiced up after walking outside the gym but I was always you know trying to get stronger and always focused on what's going to move the needle the most in terms of like what are the big lifts in here that can accomplish that and it can you know really take me to a new level and I was already doing them I was already deadlifting I was already squatting I was bench pressing and it was really as simple as that and I think we over complicate this part so much and don't realize that those lifts specifically build the most muscle gives you the most to work with to then you know fine tune down the road period and a story like at the end of the day at your foundation it's strength if you get stronger you'll build muscle especially the first you know three years of your training like this should be the most important thing if you get stronger you will build more muscle strength is extremely important to developing a physique that looks like a bodybuild and then you name some exercises Justin there's a lot of bodybuilding exercises that are out there and because bodybuilding at the high levels is all about fine tuning the physique you have a million one different exercises for every body part but the big movers the compound lifts for you know if you're doing this and you're getting going and you want to develop that physique like you know a barbell squat is going to do more than the next four exercises combined so you want to focus on those big gross motor movements and you want to get stronger at them this is the foundation and it always has been a bodybuilding there's a lot of parts of bodybuilding but strength is the foundation this is why if you look back at the journey of getting into competing there was a year that I spent of training before I even entered into my first show in that year's time I was cycling through maps anabolic and the goal was purely I'm going to get strong at these major lifts just get strong and lay that foundation it wasn't until I got into competing did I do maps aesthetic in like a PED type of layout like we have those but that didn't come till later it was first you follow an anabolic type of protocol like that build the most amount of strength I can in these big lifts and that was actually unique there in my in the bodybuilding space that's most people jump right to the pump and sculpting part and they don't lay that foundation they don't squat they don't deadlift they don't do these big gross motor moop compound lifts they're doing all these isolation exercises and pumping exercises and supersets and I'm just like man that is not what's going to limit your potential yeah just kind of move the needle the most the thing that's going to move the needle the most is building that strength in those lifts and so that should be the foundation if anybody even if you're not going to get on stage if you're looking to build a better physique that should be the foundation and then we get to the sculpting type stuff later on yeah so which brings us to the next one which is the pump now what's interesting now this is also I would say so the first most unique thing about a bodybuilding is this kind of you know presentation right this balanced looking physique but the other unique thing about bodybuilding it's the only strength sport that values the side effect of strength training during the workout which is the pump yeah no other strength sport looks at the pump and says that was great they avoid it for the most part in fact it's a hundred percent to detriment you know power lifters could care less about the pump Olympic lifters definitely don't care about the pump shop putters like you know rock climber rock like any strength sport like the pump is like this side effect well in bodybuilding it becomes one of the main effects now what's cool about this is that there's two reasons why the pump is valuable one clearly does signal muscle growth two the environment that creates the best pump is probably the environment that builds the most muscle in other words not not only does the pump signal your body to build muscle because of the pump itself right more blood and nutrients getting into the muscle that can come out there's a little bit of a waist build up that signals muscle growth there's some cells swelling that happens so that's also important but it also is telling you that oh i got a good pump i'm probably well hydrated i'm probably well fed i'm not over trained so it's also telling me that i'm in a good environment to build muscle and then there's a third aspect that bodybuilders really took advantage of with the pump which is you can see what your body looks like when you pump a muscle and make it look more developed temporarily bodybuilders took advantage of this right so if they had a weak body part or they wanted to see what they would look like if they got their rear delts a little bit more developed or their upper chest a little bit more developed they would go get a pump look in the mirror and now you can look and see like okay i can see my potential i can see where i'm going because because i got this muscle to temporarily look bigger it's also a clear indication if you can't get a certain muscle group a good pump there's a loss of connection there's a loss of a mind-muscle connection there and so you know in terms of like developing and building this aesthetic physique that's balanced you know that's that's also like a consideration as you're doing the pump style train hypertrophy to be able to see whether or not you know you're getting that clear signal back that we got that bro that's so important you said that if you do pull-ups and you feel no pump in your back and you get a great pump in your biceps we got to change the way you're doing pull-ups right that is signaling to you that you're connecting maybe more to your arms than you should be now if you just want to do a lot of pull-ups maybe it doesn't make a big difference but if you want to develop your back from doing pull-ups then it's actually important for you to pay attention to the other thing too and i noticed with clients that when i was training clients and we were working on specific areas and body parts especially when they first got started then as soon as they were they would tell me oh my muscles feel really tight or i feel my glutes get really pumped or i can feel my lats i never felt that before i knew muscle growth was on the other end it was always like once we got the pump the rest started to kind of accelerate yeah and i think that has a lot to do with what you just said is that they're now learning how to truly activate that muscle it's funny that we're talking about this within the in the bodybuilding world but i mean i use this with the general population all the time all the time because one of the hardest things to get clients to do and you use back as an example it's a great example like how many clients did you have that actually could get a back pump a lot of clients couldn't do it a lot and a lot of that is because they're pulling with their arms all the time to do any of the exercises whether it's a row whether it's a pull-up it didn't matter they would do it all with their shoulders rolled forward and with all with their biceps and they would never and then those are smaller muscles so they would fatigue first before the back even got fatigued and they never got sore never got a pump there and so teaching the general pop how to just get a pump in those areas is a great way to help work on that mind-muscle connection which supports no matter what your goal is totally lastly we've talked about this earlier in the episode but that's to make your training balanced so that's a key with bodybuilding and this is to really get an aesthetic-looking physique you want a lot of balance again if you have a very very developed muscular upper body but your lower body is totally out of proportion like you know if you stand there in some shorts or whatever you go to the beach like you're not going to look as good as someone who doesn't have nearly as developed an upper body who looks a lot more balanced balanced training is key to bodybuilding now what does this look like well you could I don't think I need to say this because I think people kind of get this but you look at your body you see how it's developed and you know where you need to place your focus and what you do with this is you either increase the volume or you know the reps or the sets on that particular area or what most people need to do is take away volume from areas that they already develop very quickly and lend it to these other body parts a lot of people have an issue with that like you tell somebody who's got really well developed triceps but their biceps are very undeveloped and you say they'll say oh yeah I could work more bicep but if you say no no take some volume from your tricep and move it to your bicep they'll oh no no I don't want to do that so well you're not going to be able to develop balance if you keep that ratio up you know we we tend to communicate most of our stuff to like general pop because I think that's who listens to the show but we do have a small portion of people in here that are competitive bodybuilders mince physique bikini athletes and this maps aesthetic is something that I'm like extremely proud that we did and we don't talk a lot about that we talk a lot about prime and prime pro which of course those are correctional things that's general population that helps out the most it helps everybody out but that's who that's for more than anybody but maps aesthetic to me is it takes what you're explaining right now on how do I go about making a symmetrical physique and actually lays that out and tells you how to do it it allows you to plug it in yeah none of our programs do that and I don't I've never seen anything else out there like that like no I'd never seen and yet that's exactly how I had to program as I was getting ready for each show because you go to a show and whether I could see it or not a judge would tell me and say hey you're you know your shoulders are underdeveloped compared to your chest or your back is overdeveloped compared to your hamstring they'll tell you like where you're strong and where you're weak and so I would take that information instead of being you know insecure about it or oh poor me I would go back and go like okay he says my back is plenty developed so I'm going to pull back on the volume a little bit there he says my shoulders are underdeveloped so I'm going to ramp up the volume there okay and then I'd have to program it in and so this when we did maps aesthetic that was the idea was okay how do we do this but then we also customize it so the individual can choose their areas that they want to develop and plug it into the program and then follow it and then at the end of it they should see this their body more balanced than what it was and that's that yeah that's that's exactly how you want to train when you're trying to bring up balance that you know we do also have some really hardcore listeners like people who really dedicate a lot of time to training yeah and who already train at a high volume and the question I get from those people is okay how do I increase it like my workouts already an hour and a half long like okay I guess I can do another 20 minutes like what does that look like well bodybuilders figured this out a long time ago with what's called a double split routine this is where you train twice a day so instead of doing your one hour 45 minute workout once a day because what happens at the end of you know after the first hour hour and 20 minutes fatigue sets in and what you train at the end doesn't get the same attention or the same stimulus as the stuff you train in the beginning so bodybuilders in the past and this was this was pioneered in the 60s but really in the 70s became popular with the bodybuilders like Arnold and those during the golden era what they call what they would go and they would train twice a day because they'd come back fresh and do what's called a double split and this allowed the body to somewhat recover in between workouts it also allowed the body to handle more volume so I'm going to give this example right now because there's a lot of studies that show that volume versus volume it's all the same but at some point that's not true if you took you know a tremendous amount let me I'm going to make it extreme right you look at let's say somebody does 50 sets of exercises in a week you take one person and they do 50 sets on Monday the other person does 50 sets that spreads it out Monday through Sunday the person that spreads it out it's going to get better results okay and the more volume you do the more of a discrepancy there is with that so if you're training at high volume and you want to progressively overload and add even more volume you need to split your workouts up because at some point it becomes detrimental to put them all in one workout and we have a program called MAPS PED that's that exactly it's a very high volume very high frequency like progressively overloaded to the extreme this is our most advanced program most advanced and that's exactly what we did is we put it we made a double split routine so that we don't run into that problem I mean I feel like this is the nitrous of of like training programs for me so if I was laying out like a year of my training for a show it would look like MAPS anabolic MAPS aesthetic and then PED and if anything I would interrupt one of those three with something like symmetry or performance but like if I were to map out yeah a year of what getting ready for a show or the ultimate like pathway of to build the best physique it would obviously be the strength foundation like we talked about earlier why that that's the first found like you got to pursue that first whether you're doing it already or you're about to anabolic first then you would move into aesthetic and then you would move into that and what's beautiful about that is each one of those is programmed to progressively overload for you just follow it to a T and then we've built in the overload there and then the only other option that I would add in there is and this would be based off the client on how their joints are feeling how their progress is going so long everything is going good then we follow that pathway if I find there's any sort of imbalance if I find that they're they're complaining of achy joints things like that then I would throw in something like you know a symmetry or performance to interrupt those three totally totally so here's what we're gonna do maps aesthetic maps PED those are our bodybuilding programs they're both 50% off for this episode you can find them at mapsfitnessproducts.com but you have to use the code bodybuilder to get that discount you can also find all of us on Instagram Justin is at my pump Justin I'm at my pump to Stefano and Adam is at my pump Adam


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Good morning, this is ThinkTech, I'm Jay Fidel. And today we're gonna talk about the middle way, the middle way is a show about China. And we have our old friend Russell Liu, he joins us from Honolulu, and Chang Wang, he joins us from the Midwest. He's a practicing lawyer and an academic in the Midwest. Chang, where are you exactly? St. Paul, Minnesota. St. Paul, Minnesota. Okay, we're gonna talk about the Chinese in America, especially here on Martin Luther King Day. We're gonna talk about the civil rights movement and how that has affected Chinese Americans. And I suppose the history of Chinese Americans in the United States, which is not so simple and not so pretty.  Yes, good morning, Jay. Good morning, Chang. Jay's pleasure to be in this show. Again, the middle way really is a show which we are attempting to bridge between China and the US. All of us have had unique experiences, being in China and the US. And this show, Jay, being the middle of the Pacific, it's the Asian Pacific Century. So that's why we're called middle way. But today's topic what we're talking about is really the what does Martin Luther King Day, the civil rights movement means to Chinese Americans and how it's viewed in the different segments of the Asian American community, the Chinese American. And so we have a very interesting discussion and viewpoint. And the overriding consensus we start off with and now pass it back to Jay, is that, you know, this is Martin Luther King Day today. And so it's really a mixed bag on how the Chinese Americans view the Martin Luther King Day and the civil rights movement. And it depends what generation you're in. I had a little quip with Chang Wang. We're talking about, we have friends who are first generation immigrants from China, as well as some of our Chinese academic scholars in China, the progressives who all embraced Donald Trump and who have very little knowledge of the civil rights movement. And it's ironic. And, you know, let me pass it to Jay and then Chang, you can to share some of the thoughts there. Well, let me go to some of the history here. A couple of thoughts just to sort of paint the canvas. One is the Chinese had a terrible time in the 19th century. Things weren't so good in China and they came for these jobs on the railroad west and they were treated badly. But their culture carried them through. I think the most interesting story that sticks in my mind is the story of Typhoid. And what happened on the railroads is that there were two kinds of workers. There were the Chinese and there were the Hullies. And the Hullies were dying at a rapid rate, getting very sick over Typhoid. The Chinese knew how to cook their food and boil their water and they survived. They didn't have a problem with that at all. And so what you have is a cultural strengths in Chinese and in China. And that should be a thread of our show today, that cultural strength because it differentiates the Chinese as a culture from many, many other cultures. The other thing is that the United States was not kind to the Chinese in the 20th century. And I think right on through from the immigration limitations the Chinese Exclusion Act and the McCarran Walters Act in 1921, they've had a rough time over immigration and they haven't been treated well. But over the years, I think the Chinese have done well in integrating. They have stuck together as families and communities and that has helped them. And so that cultural strength again has helped them. But then arrives Trump and he takes us backward. He tries to do escape code on Xi Jinping and China and every Chinese person in the country suffers over that because he's been blaming them for the COVID which is really inappropriate. And finally, I wanna get to the point that Chang Wang made before the show began. And that is that there are a lot of Chinese who support Trump and I wanna examine how many, I mean in broad terms and why. Good morning, Chang. Tell us your thoughts about whether there are Chinese people in this country who support Trump and why. Morning, Jay and good morning, Russell. Thank you for having me on the show. So let's start with the statistics. So in 2020 election, according to the Asian-Pacific the Justice Project, the Chinese-American voting 56% voting blue and 20% voting Trump and the Republican. So, and there are 23%, they are considered themselves independent and this is very consistent with other major Asian-American communities like Korean 57 for Democrats and Filipino 52% for Democrats and 34% for Republican. And there are two extreme examples among Asian-American community that is the Vietnamese vast majority voting Republican, 43% and only 36% of voting Democrats. And on the opposite, the Indian-American community only 28% of voting Republican and a 65% voting Democrats. So with these all this said, but there is a very loud voice among the Chinese-American community supporting Trump agenda, even including the racial discrimination against the Chinese. It's very bizarre phenomenon, but as Russell said, we have to distinguish different generation of immigrants, the second generation or above third generation, fourth generation. There are very, very few Trump supporters as we can observe, but among the fourth generation Chinese immigrants in this country, there is a considerable critical mass, a very loud voice supporting Trump, supporting Trump's agenda, anti-immigration and even the anti-Chinese rhetoric. So again, we consider this is very bizarre, but they are both a deeper reason for that and there are some apparent reasons for that. Appearance reason to keep my response short, the most obvious reason is this first generation Chinese-Americans, they do not, they are not familiar with American culture, cultural norm, political system, judicial system and they gather almost all of the information from WeChat, from some WeChat group, like Chinese version of Facebook and Twitter. So there are a lot of misinformation, disinformation rapidly spread it among Chinese-American communities. So that's the most obvious reason, but there's a deeper reason and that is what Russell and I considered why the civil rights movement is vitally important for the new immigrants to understand, because this is part of your public education, citizen education is part of your gene, but for a lot of new immigrants, the civil rights movement is legacy. They are not common sense to them and this is not something they inherited from their parents. So they have to learn from the very beginning. So that I really appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation on Martin Luther King Day. Yeah, well, it's important that we have this conversation today. I want to mention that you talk about the Chinese, I mean, a significant number of Chinese who essentially are voting against their interests when they support Trump, because Trump is not friendly to the Chinese at all. And he has created an environment in this country where if you walk down the street and dozens of American cities, you ask people, what do you think of the Chinese? They will come out with a negative remark and they will remember it. At the beginning when he was blaming them, nobody wanted to go to Chinese restaurant, remember that, at the very beginning and that was just a superficial kind of thing, but he's been racist through so many races, including the Chinese. And it always amazes me that the Chinese will or that any group like that will support him when he is working against them and they are therefore working against their own interests. Another group that falls, that comes to mind is Latinos, a lot of Latinos support Trump, but he hates Latinos. He, remember, he's the guy that wanted to build the wall. He's the guy that treated the children so badly and the immigrants from the South so badly and yet a lot of Latinos support him. That's hard to understand. It's worth having another show on that point. But here we are on Martin Luther King Day and I think what's interesting here is to compare the Chinese experience in the United States with the African American experience in the United States, then see what the similarities and differences are. And as you say, Chang, what can we learn from all of that? We need to be aware of it and the Chinese as a parallel trajectory, they need to be aware of it. In fact, every minority group needs to be aware of it. All, let me say this, all minority groups need to be aware of racial bias and prejudice against other minority groups. We can solve this problem. I don't understand why, you know, the schools have not helped us, but they have not helped us. Then we have a threatened American society that keeps on going and a guy like Trump just exacerbates it. So Russell, can you help me compare the Chinese cultural experience? Both the Chinese who have lived in this country, you know, for 170 years, meaning the Chinese came in 1850 or so to Hawaii and probably earlier through the mainland. Can you help me understand the Chinese cultural experience and the cultural, you know, parameters, the cultural characteristics of Chinese living in the United States for a long time as opposed to the African American experience who have lived in the United States for 400 years, but they came as slaves? Can you talk about that? Well, I think, Jay, that's a very good question. I think the first I would look to the similarities a lot for the second, third, fourth generation Chinese Americans who have grown up the US, you know, actually there's a lot of similarities in the history, in the, the Chinese that came here really came from China as indentured servants, as we know, to build the railways, to work on the plantations. And roughly, you know, if you read some of the actual diaries which I've read, they were treated very, very badly. They could not intermarry for one thing. They could not bring, they didn't want to bring, they wouldn't allow Chinese women to come here. So many of the men ended up, a lot of them intermarrying. As we know, in Hawaii, you know, there were a lot of Chinese who could not bring women so they had to intermarry with Hawaiian women. So that's part of the history where it's a lot of that shared background. And, you know, many things happened along the way. They had, they were not allowed to vote. They're, you know, many of their civil liberties that they did not have. And again, so that's the experiences that Chinese Americans have, the generations that have been here. And I know I also have friends who are the first generations from China. And their very point is very different because they haven't shared or have ever felt what demonstration is, you know, they don't have that same sentiment. And they kind of remind me of the Latino community in Florida where many of them have a political orientation that they are going to be strong Americans. So what that means is equates to becoming a certain kind of American that share the same thoughts as the people who actually rioted, you know, Washington, D.C. I mean, it's interesting that Proud Boys, the leader is actually comes from a Latino background. He is half African American, half Cuban. And a lot of the Cuban community in Florida actually supports Trump, you know. Again, so I think there are a lot of Chinese who have come here recently who support Trump. And I think there's a second dimension to that. It's a lot of the Chinese that who come here in Great D.U.S., they look at a world where they have to work very hard. They will sacrifice everything for their children. So they are not in line with some of the democratic ideals, helping the indigent poor. They feel that they have to do on their own and nobody should be given a so-called, as they see in their mind, a handout. So I think that's an important point.   And a Chinese person who has come over in recent years, and I'm reminded, it's just a flashback, but in Vancouver, which is a largely Chinese community, and the Chinese people there have brought money with them from China, maybe to, you know, be safe to have a plan, you know, when China might try to take their money or worse. So they bring their money to Canada, and they buy these fabulous condominiums on the water in Vancouver, and they are the community there. And you say to yourself, gee, that's different. That's different than the people who came here 170 years ago. And you know, I wonder if you can speak to what has happened in your time, in our time, if you will, to the change in the Chinese visitor who turns to be an immigrant, who settles in the United States, say in a first generation wave of immigration. Thank you, Jay. It's less limit our discussion to fall to the first generation Chinese immigrants for now, for the purpose of our discussion. For the first generation Chinese immigrants, basically start from, we have to say that why we are in debt to the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement led to 1964 Civil Rights Act signed by LBJ, and then next lead to the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965, which eliminated the immigration quota and dramatically increased the immigration from the Asian countries. And after that, the immigrants from Asian countries become a significant, became significant, that after 1965 Immigration Act. And the further wave of Chinese immigrants to the United States were not from mainland China, but actually from Taiwan is understandable because in 1965 until 1979, there was no diplomatic relationship between the United States and the people of China. The official diplomatic relationship was with the United States and the Republic of China, which was in Taiwan. And in 1979, President Jimmy Carter re-attablished, according to the Chinese terminology, re-attablished the diplomatic relationship between Beijing and Washington, and Taiwan was out in 1979. And only after 1977, so before 1979, the first generation immigrants from Asian countries, from China were mostly from Taiwan and Hong Kong. Then after 1979 and in early 1980s, the Chinese, mainland Chinese began to study abroad and began to come to United States, come to other countries to find their family relative and recital elsewhere. So that in 1980s, you'll see a large wave of immigrants from mainland China to United States and to Europe and also to other Asian countries. That's 1980s. So they are still living today. It's only about 35 years ago. So the fourth wave of Chinese immigrants, still now they are already, some of them already grandparents, they are from mainland China. Those are, they share strikingly similar background. Both of them are academics. And they came here to study mortally at a graduate level. Yeah, that's a very important point. I should have made that point myself. A lot of the waves of immigrants from China over our lifetimes have been for academic purposes, for study and in various areas, but especially including science, but medicine, technology, and they've done very well. And I like to add that, they've stayed here. It's a story that has been repeated millions of times. They've stayed here and they've done well. So, and look at you, I mean, for example, the lawyers, the lawyers. I remember how interesting it was that the government and the Chinese Bar Association were encouraging lawyers to go overseas and study law, to take master's degrees in various law schools all over the country and in Europe. And they did. It was, I guess it was a career pass. And thousands, maybe even millions, hundreds of thousands anyway of lawyers from China took those graduate degrees, including right here in Honolulu, at the University of Hawaii. And I guess a fair number of them stayed. Some of them went back to China. Some of them stayed. Some of them stayed to practice law. And there are a lot of lawyers like Yu Cheng, who were born in China, but who trained in US law and who are practicing in various areas. Not only, and what's interesting, not only in big firms, but in small firms. It's an entrepreneurial activity and it's really all over the country. And I don't think people realize the, you know, the degree to which Chinese lawyers are successful in the practice of law all over. No, thank you, Jay. This is the first great wave of immigrants from mainland China that was in 1980s. And then the second wave is from the 1990s, late 1990s to early 2000s. And I was among these wave, the second wave. And I have to say that probably the first wave were STEM major. And because they were more eager to learn STEM disciplines. And for the second wave, there are more humanity, economics, and law major, graduate students from mainland China. And then the third wave, most recent and remotely under George W. and Obama administration, that they were coming here to settle. They were not coming here to study. The vast majority of the new immigrants in the third wave in the 21st century, they were, as you mentioned, the immigrants you saw in Vancouver, they were pretty wealthy middle class or upper middle class. They came here to Canada and United States to transfer the wealth out of mainland China. And they resettled here. And they probably want to retire here or at least purchase second or the third home here. And they also want to send their kids to the elite school in North America. This is third wave. So back to our original observation, there were a lot of Chinese Americans, they don't quite identify with the core value of this country, which is the equal protection due process and the rule of law. They strongly support some very hatred speech by the authority, they were most of them or from our own observation, all of them are from the third wave of immigrants from the mainland. None of them, very few of them are from the first gen, first wave or the second wave, who we came here to study and to view the United States as the beacon of the freedom of the humanity. And came here to identify with the core value of this country. That's a little bit different. And but they are the third wave, those very strong Chinese American Trump supporters, they make a very, very vocal voice.  And there's a mass DC information and a missing information campaign spread it on Facebook and WeChat. Even New York Times published several featured article regarding this phenomenon, which is a disappointing and a disheartening to people like Ross and me. Yeah, well, you know, what's interesting, I think it's important to recognize that with each succeeding wave, the Chinese immigrants have become more liberal and less likely to support Trump. And now here we are in Martin Luther King Day. And the question is, you know, have they come together? Do they support as a group or maybe individually, the MLK movement and the Black Lives Matter movement? Is there a convergence and why? I think Russell, you have some good thing to say about this. I think Jay that it's still a work in progress, I think as Chang has pointed out, the different generations, ways of Chinese Americans that have come to America have to some extent varying degrees of experiencing the American culture. And I think Jay, I think maybe it's the fourth generation, the very recent, you know, I have a lot of lost and swear to each from China that come to the U.S. And I'm amazed that the English literacy profession is very high, so they read more, that they're able to read the different viewpoints the same level as an American. And I think this new wave that's maybe after the third wave that are coming into areas like law and humanities, you know, may start to learn it better, understand it better. And I've seen that because some of my former law students from China who actually come here and are doing very well, Jay, I'm going to tell you that one of them is like a 3.92 GPA at a top 10 law school in the U.S., you know, she's competing with all America. That happens all the time, you know, you look at the leaders of the classes and the Chinese are right up there and top of the class. But let me go back to the point of the merger or the support of the Black Lives Matter movement. You know, there are a lot of cultural differences. The Chinese have never lost their emphasis on education and family and on business. But I think those, you know, to me, those three things are important cultural parameters for the Chinese and Chinese immigrants. Those things are not necessarily baked into the Black Lives Matter movement. You know, the African Americans were slaves for a long time. And to the extent they had a culture in Africa that was tamped down by being a slave for a long time, they didn't have the opportunity at all to do any of that. They didn't even have the opportunity in many cases to retain family, much less education, much less business. Those parameters that you find in the Chinese thread of culture elsewhere and here are really different. So my question is, the question to you is, you know, given those similarities in terms of, you know, looking for civil rights between the African Americans and the Chinese, what are the points of connection now? What are the points on which a Chinese person, Chinese immigrant or a Chinese who has lived here for 170 years, you know, find as a common denominator with the African American community? Let me add something to your Jay real quickly. I think the thing that they find in common was in 1982. I think what shook the Asian American Chinese American world was the brutal killing of Vincent Chin, who was supposed to get married and was caught in a bar in Detroit. It was an anti-Japanese of time because the Japanese were developing cars that were, and these two guys had lost their jobs in American carpet and they beat him to death. And these guys didn't go to jail. And that was a flash point, as I see it, where the Chinese Americans all galvanized and said, wake up, this has happened to us too long. It never thought about it. And now we fast forward to the George Floyd incident. It galvanized more to say, this is what's been going on, but now we have smartphone camera videos that are showing live. This is what happened. And I think for the Chinese American, the fact that the US Department of Justice in 1982 opened an investigation, the Chinese Americans were now part of a protected class. So when we have hate speech done in the last, by Trump and his administration, a lot of people were doing a lot of hate things. You know, the FBI would investigate that because it's part of a protected class, the Asian Americans, the Chinese Americans. And again, I think more and more are getting more realizing that. And I can tell you from the second wave of Chinese who I know very closely, they voted for Trump for the second time. They said, we're not voting for Trump because he's racist and he's beating up on people like the Chinese, you know, and Chinese Americans. So I think there's a realization of that where even among that second wave that Chang talks about and the third wave, you know, they are starting to realize it. But I still think that more information, more experiences that the Chinese Americans face like in the Vincent Shen situation, they will understand it much more clearly. So Chang, you know, is there an evolution happening? Do the Chinese feel a kinship to the African Americans? Do they feel a kinship to the African American movements? I mean, after all, the African American, you know, economic situation arguably has improved. Cultural situation has changed. It has evolved in our lifetimes. It isn't what it was, you know, 50 or 100 years ago, it's better. But at the same time, you know, they're still at the wrong end of the discrimination arc, if you will. And I'm wondering if the Chinese feel the same kind of feeling and whether they feel that they're in a kinship.  And it's always been the case and it's still the case today, as far as I know. So Quiri, whether that same phenomenon exists in the Chinese community or vis-à-vis the African American community? Very well said. I think we are running out of time, but let's quickly respond. I do, I do a kinship to all the minorities and to underrepresented the class. And I hope that, you know, the other Chinese American will feel the same way. Okay, well, you're right though. We're almost out of time. So I want to ask you guys to leave some last words. Let's go to you first, Cheng. What is your advice to the country and especially to Joe Biden on how to minimize or end this kind of racial prejudice we have seen here on Martin Luther King Day and to the Chinese and I suppose the African Americans and all of the minorities that have suffered at the hands of racial prejudice. What is your advice to the new administration? I think that is, I'm not sure I mean the position to advise new administration, but I do want, I do hope the new administration will implement some, you know, regulatory policies to reverse the tremendous damage that has been done in the past four years. And otherwise I have total confidence in the new administration. And I admire President Biden.  Yes, it has been a tragedy. Russell, let me reframe it a little bit for you to close. And that is what advice would you give the Chinese community on how to look at this all the generations? And what advice would you give the African American community? And is it different advice? What should they be doing, thinking, aspiring to in the years to come? Well, I think the main important thing is that we're all Americans, no matter if we have to endure some of these pains, I think we have to just reach out and, you know, especially for the new immigrants from the Chinese Americans, that you're in the same lot with everybody else and that we all have to kind of find common ground. You know, I think among Chinese, one thing that keeps him going, I would tell the African American community, is the culture, I think. I think you raised that point earlier, Jay. I think the thousands of years of culture for the Chinese is survival. And they survive by looking at things like education, no matter if your generation suffers, you have to do it obligation for the child and you have to save all your money to put them to school, maybe it takes two generations, family households to put the child to higher education, you do that, that's part of the survival. And I think that just where it's an article that came out this morning somewhere, it talked about the whole fact is that as Americans, you know, the whole idea, even for the people who protested, they have to learn how to survive, you know, how to survive in this world without doing what they did. And this whole thing about survival, it goes back to culture and that makes reexamining maybe that we have to find something in our American culture to put us all together, to put us on the same page. And that's not gonna be an easy job, but I think that's one of the things that Biden has to do. There's a little discussion on one of my TV channels the other day when somebody said, you know, this is not who we are, this is not who the country is. And then one of the other participants in the conversation said, no, that's wrong, this is who we are. It's not who we should be, it is who we are. And we really have to get that out of our system. There is no reason why this country cannot be exceptional and not prejudice. There's no reason. In fact, this country would be much more exceptional if we got that out of our system. And I think we all are to work together for that. Thank you so much, Chang-Wong, Russell Liu, thanks for coming on, we'll see you in two weeks. Okay, and the world will be different. The world will be different in two weeks, so. I look forward to it. Yeah.