Please go ahead and begin whenever you're ready. Great. Thanks so much, Mike. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Unger with Heritage Preservation, and we are so glad that you're joining us here today. Before we get started, just let me give a quick introduction to the community, and then we'll move on. The Connecting to Collections on the Community with the American Association for State and Local History and with funding from the Institute for Museum and Library Services. The community webinars are moderated by Heritage Preservation, and Learning Times is kind enough to produce both our website and our webinars. The goal of the online community has always been to help smaller museums, libraries, archives, and historical societies quickly locate reliable preservation resources and network with colleagues. To help you do that, we have compiled an extensive list of online resources that are broken up by topic on the online community. In addition, we also host free drop-in webinars, like the one today, on topics we hope you'll find useful. A recording of all of our webinars, including this one, can be found under Webinar Archives. And of course, if you're interested in continuing the discussion, you're welcome to sign up as a member of the community and post your questions to the discussion board. Today, I'm pleased to welcome Patrick Kelly. Patrick is the Vice President of Insects Limited, Incorporated, as well as the Identification Group Subchair for the IPM Working Group. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm going to go ahead and pull over to your PowerPoint and just remind folks that if you have any questions during the presentation, feel free to type them up in the chat box, and then we'll make sure to get to them by the end of the hour. Thanks, Patrick. All right. Thanks, Jess. I appreciate it. Thanks, Mike, for getting us set up. And good morning, good afternoon, good evening to everyone out there. I'm excited to be here today and start off our Stressed About Pest Part 1. And we have Part 2 that'll be coming up in a week or so, so there's even more to come. This presentation is going to focus mostly on the management of pests in our museums and historic houses. Damage caused by animals and insects is one of the main sources of deterioration in museum objects. The image here shows a wool rug that has been eaten away by insects. But damage like this occurs daily in all types of collections and museums worldwide. My hope is that this presentation will give you a better understanding of pests and pest issues and how to go about preventing or eliminating them. So in order to understand IPM, we need to understand what factors make an organism a pest. What is considered a pest can be different from person to person. While I was in college, I lived in a neighborhood of older homes that was located off campus. When most of us living there would see a rat in the alleyway of that neighborhood, we'd quickly label it as a pest due to the health and property threats that we thought opposed to us. But there was an exception to this. I got to know a girl who lived on the other side of the alley who raised several rats as pets. And during the summer months, she would release her domesticated rats into the wild to let them interact with the wild rats in the area. She was happy for the socialization of her rats and certainly did not see a pest when she saw a rat in the same alley as me. So some of the main things that make an insect or animal pest are if they cause measurable economic loss, if they cause some type of aesthetic loss, if they cause physical health issues to people or the environment, and finally if they cause mental health issues in the form of fear, stress, or mental anguish. And so our stressed about pest covers that whole aspect right there. Let's take a brief look at the history of pest management since that's our topic for today. Exploration in the nerve gases during World War II gave rise to several new organic compounds that were found to have insecticidal qualities. These included carbamates, organophosphates, and organochlorines, which DDT is an example of that. Prior to this point in time, other means of pest control were used, such as sanitation, mechanical control, such as traps, biological control, which is natural predators of pests. And there was some chemical control, but it was very limited, mostly metal bases like lead arsenic. After World War II, all these practices gave way to chemicals. In the period of the 1940s to the mid-60s, synthetic organic insecticides like DDT were considered modern breakthrough. They increased our food production, removed insects that carried disease, and they were used everywhere. Other forms of pest management were abandoned. The agricultural industry became very high-powered in our society. This ultimately led to a chemical crisis where higher and higher doses of chemicals became necessary as insects became resistant to the chemicals. The US was basically addicted to chemicals, and it was a hard addiction to break. And I'm sure this was happening around the world, not only in the US. Rachel Carson's book in 1962 titled Silent Spring brought awareness of the harm that chemicals like DDT were bringing to the environment. This was the start of the environmental movement away from chemicals and led to the eventual formation of the EPA in 1970. Modern pest management incorporates many alternatives to chemical control, and we owe much of this to Rachel Carson. IPM, the term IPM, was initially a term used in agriculture when other methods, besides chemical use, became necessary. The concepts of field crop IPM has advanced into all areas of pest management. Modern IPM simply means combining cultural, physical, biological, and chemical tools to prevent and reduce pest activity. The image on your screen shows an example of all the pieces that, when put together, make up the IPM puzzle that helps us reduce pest issues. So how do we go about implementing an IPM program at our own institution? Let's begin with our own IPM puzzle pieces and build a program from there. The first piece of any puzzle is often the most important, and our IPM puzzle is no different. We've been around long enough to know that all major decisions in a museum must have approval from the administration, and so let's start there. Educating museum administrators about pests and pest damage is essential for personal support, financial support, and success with your IPM program. Whether they come from administration, curatorial, exhibits, or registration, having one capable person in charge of the IPM program will make the difference in a program succeeding or failing. The IPM manager must have a budget of some type, authority to make decisions, and some expertise about IPM. In a small historic house, the IPM team may be made up of only one person, but in larger institutions, there is typically a team that supports the IPM manager. The team must understand the methods, the benefits, and acceptable pest thresholds for their institution. The team will be able to check monitoring traps and report back any pest activity that they see or hear about. Institutions that do not have this IPM structure in place often ignore the signs of damaging pests until irreversible damage to the collections has been done. Responding to pest activity early prevents damage from ever occurring. Once you have administrative support and a manager and a team to carry out IPM, the next three most important things are education, education, and education. The philosophy of identification of the pest prior to taking any action allows you to make sound decisions on how to get rid of that particular pest. There are many resources available to assist you in properly identifying the insects and other pests that you are finding in your institution. Training courses have been offered at some of the museum conferences to train individuals within your institution about pest ID. The website museumpests.net has lots of really good pest fact sheets and an image library that can assist you with the pest ID. I myself chair the identification subgroup for the IPM working group that sponsors the museum pest net website. So I'm very familiar with this particular resource. Many people post images on the museum pest listserv and ask for input. And companies like Insects Limited will also perform free identification. The bottom line is that there are resources out there to assist you with pest identification. There was even a chance within this webinar for you to submit pest images for identification. And we'll get to those after the end of the formal presentation. We could have a complete presentation on insect identification itself, but we aren't doing that today. Instead, we will take a quick look at a few of the most common and damaging museum pests. One of the most common and damaging pests are closed moths. Shown here, the webbing closed moth is on the left and the case making closed moth is on the right. They eat similar things, but their appearance as adults is quite different, as you can see. Carpet beetles in the family Dermestidae commonly infest museum spaces. They are so common that there are hundreds and hundreds of species of Dermestidae beetles with no common names. There are some that occur more frequently than others, though. Starting at the top left, we have the museum beetle. The top right is a beetle found more frequently in Europe, the vodka beetle. The bottom row gives us the black carpet beetle on the far left, the buffalo carpet beetle in the middle, and the varied carpet beetle on the right. Most Dermestidae beetles spend more than 80% of their life in the larval stage, which is the damaging stage eating the collections. Although some of the images of the adults shown here are similar in appearance, trying to identify a species when all you have are larvae is really tough. Sometimes you have to wait for several months for them to turn into adults before you can determine what species it is. These two look-alike species of beetle both cause significant damage to a wide range of collection materials. The cigarette beetle on the left and the drugstore beetle on the right, or biscuit beetle, as it's called in Europe, bore holes straight in through books, into animal mounts, through antler and even bone to name a few materials. Silverfish and their cousins of firebrats can do extensive damage to paper and other materials, but did you know that they eat dead insects as well? So as we have dead insects accumulate in our storage areas, that's one good reason to have good housekeeping in place and vacuum up all those dead insects. That also the domestic beetles can eat those same things. Cockroaches can also be labeled as museum pest. American cockroaches are common on ships. Actually in 1908, sailors coming into San Francisco from abroad would be wearing gloves to keep their roaches from gnawing off their fingernails while they're slept. So that's one of the nice gross facts about cockroaches. On the right, the lower right is an oriental cockroach, a little smaller than the American cockroach. In order to achieve and maintain a pest-free institution, quality control measures should be in place. One of the most important aspects of quality control is regular inspections of incoming objects and exhibits. Most pest infestations are transported into the museum from other museums or individual collections. A gatekeeper process of screening all materials prior to them entering the museum is key to maintaining a pest-free environment. A physical space such as an isolation room near the dock and procedures to inspect objects with a flashlight before they are brought into the exhibit space or storage areas of your institution will make this process run relatively smoothly and efficiently. Monitoring for pests is only one piece of the puzzle, but it's a valuable piece of that. Knowing where to monitor and what to monitor for will give you the information to make better decisions. A wide range of trapping and monitoring devices are available. The top left and center traps or hanging traps design specifically for flying insects. The upper left is for the indoor use, and the upper center trap is an outdoor trap made of plastic. The two center and bottom pictures on the left are traps designed to sit flat on the floor or shelving. Crawling beetles can easily enter these traps, and the two traps on the bottom right are pitfall traps where the insects crawl up and then drop down into a pit. When monitoring a storage or exhibit space, it's always best to focus most of your time and materials in the areas that house the riskiest and most susceptible objects. These materials include but are not limited to fur, feathers, wool, silk, insect specimens, parchment and vellum, paper mache, animal skins, books composed of any of these materials, dried plants and seeds, sapwood, and any damp organic material. So let's discuss a little bit about how to use either monitoring traps or pheromone traps in this case. We start by looking at a space considering the layout and where our susceptible items are stored. We then place traps out in a grid pattern throughout the area, placing more traps around potential problem areas. Allow the traps to collect data over a day, a week, or a month, however much you'd like to look at the traps, and then check for activity. In this case, the area of highest activity is in the lower right corner of this particular picture. Now we focus more traps around the activity. We recheck these traps after allowing them to collect data from the insects. And finally, we focus our attention on the area of highest capture. Ultimately, it always comes down to a visual inspection to find the source of the infestation. So let's take this theoretical application and actually apply it to a case study. In this particular case study, monitoring traps were used. So just regular sticky traps with no attractant were placed throughout the museum. This is a 6,000 square meter museum. So after the traps were placed out, you can see here in the museum store, we had one single cigarette beetle was picked up on a sticky trap. As I showed earlier, cigarette beetles were considered a major pest in museum environments. Since a cigarette beetle male is extremely attracted to a sex pheromone lure, we placed pheromone traps throughout the museum to try to figure out where the source was coming from. So here you can see some of the pheromone traps we placed out. After several weeks of monitoring, no beetles were captured on the ground level floor, as you can see on the left. But several were captured in the administrative offices in the second level, as you can see right here. So let's see. Here we go. So let's focus our attention on that entire second level. We continued to monitor around the museum, but concentrated more traps around the administrative offices where we had previously captured the cigarette beetles. Only a single trap in the work area of the administrative assistant of the president of the museum caught any beetles, as you can see where the dart is showing there. The traps are really helping us at this point narrow down the possible sources in this very large museum. Zeroing in even further on this particular office space, we placed multiple traps in the offices around the assistant. Ultimately, the only trap that caught any beetles was in this one particular office in the top center of the map. All beetles captured were in a single trap that was in a single drawer within that office. This was the drawer that the trap was in. In reality, this desk drawer is typical of nearly everyone's. It has an accumulation of office supplies and personal belongings. In this specific drawer, though, there is a problem, and we can see it right here. What do we see up towards the top of this picture? And it's a single Hershey kiss wrapped in red foil. It's probably a Valentine leftover from one or two years ago, but this particular kiss has more than just Valentine love to spread. Cigarette beetle bored into and back out of this piece of chocolate, and it has become a breeding ground for a harmful museum pest. As we look inside the kiss, we can see the plump larvae gorging on the chocolate. This is the time where we usually take a chocolate break, but I think we'll keep going. But in reality, this single piece of chocolate accounted for more than 30 adult cigarette beetle in the museum. And we were able to narrow it down with the traps and find this one location in a 6,000 square meter museum. So that's one example of how monitoring can help us. Along the same lines as the Hershey kiss, food sold in the stores and restaurants inside museums is commonly the source of problems that spill out into exhibits and storage areas. You should pay special attention by increasing your monitoring in these particular areas. While we were talking about monitoring, we need to also consider environmental monitoring. Many museums already have environmental monitoring in place to make sure that the collections are kept in a stable setting. Being the ones in charge of our cultural heritage means that we should be looking at our storage and exhibit spaces from the eye of an insect. If an insect enters an area and the food sources and lighting are constant throughout that space, they will migrate to the most tropical areas within that space, tropical meaning those areas that have the highest temperature and humidity. If you have a certain area that tends to be warmer or more humid than surrounding areas in your storage areas or exhibit spaces, this area should also have more visual inspections by the staff and should have more sticky traps in place. Prior to World War II, sanitation was the key component for keeping a structure pest-free. With the increase of organic food supplies and pesticide-free zones, we have had to revert back to this valuable tool in our tool belt. Sanitation and or good housekeeping prevents pests by eliminating food sources and physically removing pests. Sanitation can cover lots of different aspects of a workspace. It can begin with procedures that limit eating to only designated areas in the museum. Eating at your desk can lead to excessive food debris, and food debris can lead to infestations. Also, clutter in and around a museum can lead to numerous pest issues. The practice of piling unused materials in internal or external locations offers harbors areas to rodents, birds, insects, and other pests. Removal of this clutter, like you can see on the picture on the right, it is considered sanitation. Mechanical control of pests can be any mechanical device that has the capacity to trap or repel pests. Please note that when I talk about repelling pests, I am not talking about ultrasonic or electromagnetic repellent devices. Professional pest managers will tell you that there is no research backing up that these types of devices work at all. My recommendation is that they should be avoided at all costs, and the money spent on them would be much better spent on any other aspect of IPM. Mechanical traps for mice placed along walls and close to doors can help remove a rodent that has already entered a structure. Monitoring outdoors for rodent activity can help in the prevention of rodent entry into a museum. Poison baits can be swapped out for non-toxic baits if activity is seen, or snap traps can be placed and set in these outdoor boxes. The photo on the right here shows green-colored rat droppings after they have eaten off a green-colored bait in one of these boxes. Fluorescent-colored non-toxic baits are now available that allow users to track rodent movement and harborage using a black light. The urine and droppings of fluoresce brightly under the black light rays, and you can locate where the rats are coming and going. Excluding pests by eliminating entry points into structures is also very important. Some areas need construction repairs, such as the rotted soffit on the left that has birds nesting above the soffit, or the damaged block on the right that allows rodent or other pests entry into the building. While others can simply be filled with a barrier, such as copper gauze, caulk, or other materials that are impenetrable to pests. A mouse only needs a 1 quarter-inch gap to squeeze into a building. This gap can be beneath a door or through a crack in the foundation or other gaps around the museum. Rats, on the other hand, only require a 1 half-inch gap. Most of the worst museum pest insects only need a gap of a couple of millimeters to gain entry. A close inspection while looking for gaps around the exterior of your museum is essential. Brushes, brush sweeps, and other seals on doors and windows can keep pests from entering. These stiff bristles will prevent both rodent and insect entry. I recommend this over other types of door seals because of the flexibility of the brushes, as you can see here. If you step back away from a door and look for areas where you can see light coming through, that really helps when you're looking for which doors need to be sealed. Large wooden doors, like I find in many historic houses and certain museums, are notorious for having gaps beneath them. This is often due to the fact that they expand and contract quite a bit during the course of a year, depending on the temperature and humidity. Door brush sweeps allow for this expansion and contraction while maintaining a seal that prevents pest entry. Let's talk a little bit about documentation. Any Sound IPM program will record pest activity for month to month. This includes maps of where monitors are located and data sheets that identify which pests are being captured and which traps they're being captured in. Once the pest activity has been documented for more than a single calendar year, you will know what to expect and when to expect certain pests that are typical for your area. And you'll be able to distinguish normal pest activity from completely new pest activity. This information will help you make sound decisions on what means of control you need to do. James Bryant, who's the curator of natural history at the city of Riverside in California, is shown here first identifying pests found in sticky traps and then entering data collected into a database. The programs used to input data can be as simple as a spreadsheet created in-house or there are IPM software programs available as well. Proper identification of the pest is essential as this can assist with identifying the source and potential problems in a museum. ZPest is a free pest software that is a great resource and if you would like your software to incorporate maps and trap locations and photos, there's a pay version called Collection Pest that has all the bells and whistles. ZPest is kind of the bare bones. Collection Pest has all this other stuff incorporated into it. That's available at www.collectionpests.com, which I'm sorry I didn't put that on that slide. Solutions to pest problems or treatments must be dialed in according to staff safety. Guest safety, safety of the object and will also be based on the species of insect and the philosophy of the institution. Here's a list of several treatment options used in museums today. I won't be spending time on this subject today as Rachel Erinstein who is a wonderful conservator and who knows a lot about IPM. She has a follow-up seminar to this one devoted solely to the treatment options for collections and so that one's called stressed about pest part two. Remember that there are lots of resources out there that are available to you at no cost. Museum pest.net is one example of a website that can offer help with pest ID as well as monitoring and treatments and other aspects of IPM in a museum setting. Finally, I want you to all know that the guidelines of an IPM program should not be some rigid and unbending formula. Pest activity can be very fluid and changing month to month and you need to be able to adapt quickly to those changes. My advice is to be creative in your approached IPM and your institution. Don't be afraid to make changes in your methods, treatments and trap locations if you think it will help your overall pest situation. And if possible, make it fun by continuing to learn and interacting with your own staff members or members of other institutions about pest issues. Just briefly, if any of you would like to contact me away from the webinar, I put my contact information here. So that ends the formal presentation. I think at this point, if it's all right with the organizers, I'd like to get into a couple of the pest images and letters that were sent into me prior to the webinar today. So this particular image and this was a certain museum and the message with it, it said, we received a portfolio as a donation from a man in China. The portfolio arrived with a slip sheet showing proof of some sort of bug that had eaten away at the paper. Naturally, I was nervous to put the portfolio into our vault until it had been treated. After consulting experts in my field and discussing it with the Chicago Conservation Center, I learned that the best treatment for it was a double-freezer method. So we threw away the affected slip sheet, wrapped the portfolio in poly and froze it, let it thaw and then refroze it. I'm still a little skeptical that the portfolio does not need any further treatment, but hopefully that did it. I'm curious to hear what other recommendations you would have for an object like this. No evidence of living bugs or eggs were visible on the portfolio to the naked eye. So here you can see some of the damage. If I can find, I think I have a pointer here. I can't find that. But up here above the printed part, you can see some of the area being eaten away. And I think we zero in, actually there you can see the damage quite easily on that paper above the portfolio itself. And when I look at this, it's pretty obvious to me that this damage is silverfish damage just by the pattern, that kind of random pattern. I've just seen it enough before on other paper materials. There aren't a lot of pest insects out there that just eat paper for paper's sake, but silverfish are one of those. And especially a thin paper like this, it's gonna have some maybe possibly coating on it that is good for the silverfish. But getting back to the question that the letter sent in, is this good enough to freeze it? Certainly freezing an object like this is going to kill. If you get temperatures that are low enough, really you want temperatures below 10 degrees and Rachel's gonna cover that extensively in the next stressed about pest format. But freezing is certainly gonna take care of an issue, especially silverfish and most any museum pests. So I guess hopefully that has answered the question of what other recommendations you would have for an object like this. You've pretty much taken care of the insect problem and now it's a conservation problem after that. Now let's jump to the next letter. And this one says we received a portfolio. Well, I'm sorry, that's the last letter. I run an integrated pest management program at the State Library of Western Australia and we've been finding domestic beetle and larvae. We have not been finding these on collection material but in the carpet and on the shelf tracks near the leather bound books. Our theory is that they're feeding from leather rot particles that drop from the book's spines. Do you think this is a viable theory? And so this particular person has also incorporated images which are great because we can do the identification which helps us figure out what the insects are doing. We always like to start with the identification and that points us in the direction. And so if we look on the upper right of this particular slide, we see the two beetles on the top. They have kind of a very dark top and a white hairs on the underside. And these are hide beetle which are actually used in a lot of museums to clean. The skeletal remains, if a museum is going to exhibit a skeleton of any type and they need it to be cleaned, they're gonna put it in and have the hide beetles clean that down to the very bone. And so we see those a lot in museums for that purpose but they can also be a pest because they do feed on hide material and flesh material. The third beetle, the one in the middle below that is actually just a type of ground beetle that's probably just wandered into that space. But then the larva picture to the lower right is certainly a hide beetle larva. You can see at the end of the tail end of that it has the two pointed cersei that stick out and that yellow and black coloration tells us it is a hide beetle larva. So the theory is that they're feeding from leather rot particles that are dropping down into this movable carriage below and that these hide beetles are feeding on that. I tend to not agree with that particular outlook with this pest. Most of the time with this pest, they're looking rather than a dried up old leather, they're looking for much fresher skin and hide material. And my thoughts are there's probably, there's a void I know a lot of times in these movable carriages that there's actually a void space on the other side of each of these rails that runs through and it's likely, I would say that there's probably a dead rodent or some type of dead animal down there that these hide beetle are likely feeding on. Here again, it would take further investigation to verify that but really I've never seen hide beetle or heard of hide beetle feeding on the leather rot that comes in a situation like this. Another letter that came in is one about silverfish and this particular person says, I oversee the IPM program in a large historical home and we have noticed a steady increase of silverfish in the wood and window sills. As housekeepers open the windows each morning anywhere between 20 and 50 silverfish scurry into the cracks and crevices of the wood around the sill. So it's a lot of silverfish around the windows. The indoor environment is passively controlled so designated windows are opened each morning throughout the year and cannot be left closed. We have applied boric acid and diatomaceous earth to a few of the windows that are not designated to be opened and have not seen a reduction in silverfish numbers. I prefer to not use dust in the windows that are open daily. The windows have screens and there is moisture present due to a rising mist on the rear of the building where we see the most silverfish. I rarely see the silverfish on glue boards near the windows. However, I have seen minor damage to wallpaper near the windows. The historical home contains over 700 windows and we do not have the ability to seal every crack and crevice. Are there other practices or treatments that would be recommended in a situation like this? And so this is a common occurrence. I mean, silverfish can be a really bad pest and can cause a lot of damage as this particular person pointed out both in the wallpaper and if there is paper stored in there in all kinds of areas. So let's start again with the insect. We need to go back and know about this particular pest before we figure out what the best ways are to go about getting rid of it. So some of the things we know about silverfish is that they go through, most insects will go through an egg, a larva, to a pupa, to an adult and that's a complete metamorphosis. Silverfish do what we call a general metamorphosis. So they go from an egg to a smaller version of what the adult looks like to a little bigger, a little bigger and so they don't actually go into a pupil stage or a cocoon stage, they just keep getting bigger until they're an adult. But really unique to silverfish is that after they reach the adult stage, most insects don't molt again, but silverfish continue to molt even after they've reached that adult stage. And what that does is it gives us a little more things we can use in our arsenal to take care of it. There are pesticides out there that are very low on toxicity level to mammals, but are called insect growth regulators that mimic the juvenile hormones that insects have. And with an insect like the silverfish that is molting continuously even after it reaches the adult stage, if we apply an insect growth regulator in and around the areas that we know we have this particular pest for very low toxicity and very low interaction with anything else in there, you can really knock this particular insect back. Of course it comes down to, we talked a little bit earlier that silverfish love besides paper, they like to feed on dead insects, so obviously sanitation is always good as if we can keep areas clean and we don't want clutter in those particular areas. A lot of times we hear that silverfish like high moisture areas, really they're in these higher moisture areas because other insects like these higher moisture areas, we have fungus feeders and other types of insects that live and die within these high moisture areas and the silverfish are feeding on these guys and that's why we find them in these areas as well. So they can digest paper, so they're one of the few insects that have the cellulases in their gut to digest paper, but really they thrive, they won't thrive on paper itself, they thrive on the glue, especially some of the older glues that used animal byproducts to make up the glue, the proteins in these glues that are in the book bindings and in boxes, cardboard boxes that are glued together, these are the things that silverfish thrive on and so they like to hide in the corrugation of cardboard. So I would recommend that you look at these types of sources in that particular historic house, try to get rid of that, try to keep the area clean and finally with a situation like that, I certainly would recommend an insect growth regulator being applied to the cracks and crevices around those windows and you might get better control than what you've seen in the past. All right, another letter that came in, this one, it says, I'm the curator of a historic house museum outside Detroit and we recently had an English restoration style chair conserved. It was made in New York around 1927 and meant to look like a genuine antique. The conservator was alarmed to find extensive furniture beetle damage leaving a Swiss cheese like texture in the chair rail. Because we regularly monitor for pests, I wasn't too worried and I could identify that the pest damage was not only old but also purposeful. Much of the antique style furniture of the 20th century was made with wormy wood or rubbed with dirt or beaten with chains in an attempt to mimic earlier furniture. I thought my near scare might be a good example of why monitoring is important and that certainly is.  So that does point out the value of extensive monitoring. So this person said, the reasons they believe the company made the chair with damaged wood because there were no signs of larva beetles or wood powder, which is all great stuff there. The chair is from a set of six and every other one of the chairs in the set has similar beetle holes on the same chair components. And so anyway, that's a great reason of why monitoring can be so valuable to us. Here's a really wild photo and I'm sorry to throw this one on you but it's one that was also sent in and it's a particular museum and it says there was in addition to what we see here which we can see there's a mouse that's been killed by a snap trap on the left and on the right is a scorpion actually. I know where I'm from, we don't see too many scorpions so that in itself is a rarity to me and then we can also see a lot of ants that have come in and are feeding on both the scorpion and the mouse. And so they say the traps here were in addition to 10 other rodents found in traps so there's obviously a rodent problem going on. The traps had not been checked in a few weeks because the museum staff were out of town but this is typical of what we generally find. IPM has been an ongoing problem for us. Our collections are stored in historic stable buildings and despite the employment of exclusion tactics wherever possible include plexiglass doors, wire mesh, et cetera, the problem still persists although it has improved. Due to the size, age and complexity of the building we have a hard time finding where the rodents are getting in and keeping the smaller pests like ants out. Any advice or ideas you could offer would be greatly appreciated. And so given a scenario like this where there's obviously heavy rodent pressure and there's lots of reasons for the rodents to come in to get away from the outside as well as the scorpions which are probably coming in to feed on other insects. My recommendations would be first of all go to the outside and look at what it is, what the environment is out there. We want to take away any types of plantings be it bushes, trees, long grass that comes all the way up to the outside of these stable buildings. These types of plants give pests as we can see here cover the way they can come right up to the edge of the building and then they can find their way in. If you remove or at least make a gap between some of the plantings and the building itself, you can reduce a lot of this pest activity that comes into the building. A lot of museums go to the point where they'll put a large gravel, a large gravel barrier of up to four feet around the exterior of the museum and this barrier keeps the pest away from finding the cracks and crevices that come into the museum itself. We also talked about rodent baiting or trapping outdoors, setting up a bait box. Rodents love to go into these boxes just for Harbridge. They're worried about being seen by a hawk and so they'll scurry from a long grass and they see a big black box and they'll run right into it to protect themselves. And so if you incorporate a snap trap or a bait of some type in these boxes, you can eliminate a lot of the outdoor population that's gonna find its way in. But then it always does come back to exclusion and it sounds like you've addressed this where you can, but sometimes you have to get really creative on how you can block entry points into the museum. And so that would be my recommendations too to kind of look at the outside, see if you can modify that environment to be less conducive to drawing the pest right up to the building. So I think we have time for a few more questions. I'll switch off that last slide because it's kind of hard to look at. But I think I have some questions that I can answer that came in during the talk. Here's the first one from Lindsey. It says, is there any danger of pheromone traps bringing in more pests from the outside? And that's a great question, Lindsey.     And the other thing is too, is if the insects are there close enough to be picking up the pheromone scent and coming in, I mean, they're already in that general area, you need to address the issues that why are they in that area? Is it coming from outdoors? Is it coming from a storage area nearby? But still with that, you wanna keep the pheromone traps away from doors that are opened, doors or windows that are opened on any regular basis, keep them away, because you don't want to draw in any bug really, but the value of the pheromones is still gonna be greater than the risk that you take in bringing in an adult male into the collections or museum itself. Patrick, it's Jessica here, heritage preservation. I just wanted to jump in real quick before we get to the rest of these really great questions and go ahead and post a link to our survey. Hopefully everyone can see that now. It'd be really great if people take the opportunity to fill out the short survey. We look at your responses very carefully and they'll help us to shape future events. So thanks so much and go ahead and feel free to jump back into some of our questions. Okay, thanks, Jess, appreciate it. Another question that popped up says, what amount of time pass for observations over the various areas before the location was narrowed down? This is back to our case study when I used the pheromones. For me in this particular one, I came every two weeks to that museum. And so every other week, I would visit, check the traps and then move traps accordingly. The process between when I found the first cigarette in the museum store and when I located the Hershey Kiss on the second level was probably two months. And so it didn't happen overnight. But narrowed it down, narrowed it down, narrowed it down and finally got to that point. So that was the timeframe. But really, if it's a more pressing issue, you can check the traps even daily. Or if it's something that you don't have the budget in time, it can be monthly or even quarterly that you're checking these traps. The more you check it, the better results or the quicker results you're gonna see. Next question from Dee. Patrick, what IPM measures should be considered in the planning of a museum construction planning project? That's a great question, Dee. And one that we don't often or don't often enough get asked of what should be considered. The Canadian conservation, Canadian Museum of Conservation, they built their whole museum with IPM in mind. And so when they did that, they looked at the outside, they looked at where the plantings were gonna be, they made a barrier around that. There are several layers of protection that the storage areas, actually, insects or rodents would have to go through three or four different sets of doorways and hallways to get even into the museum storage areas. And so it's those types of things, lighting outdoors, how you're gonna place your lightings. Typically, you wanna have the lights away from the structure pointing at the building rather than having security lights on the building which draw the bugs right to the building. So all those things should be considered and prior to construction and every that ounce of prevention goes a long way when you're doing museum planning. Another question, I'm just going down the line here. What's the best way to get rid of brown recluse and other venomous spiders? Spiders are there for a reason. They're there because it's brown recluse in particular.  And they're there because there's other food sources. Spiders are indicator pass because they're there to eat other insects. And so the best way to get rid of the brown recluse is to remove their food source and eliminate their environment that they like so much. And so better air circulation, more light, reduce the amount of other insects in those areas is certainly going to reduce brown recluse. And only if you have to, would you look at doing other types of pesticide methods, but with the dangerous insect like the brown recluse, you might look at that rather than having someone get bit and go through the nightmare of what can be a brown recluse bite. Jess, we have time for just a couple more questions. Do you recommend? I'll go ahead if I don't hear from her. You there, Jess? Patrick, can you hear me? Yeah. Patrick, can you hear me? Okay, great. Thank you so much for addressing these excellent questions and I realize that we have quite a few more. Thank you so much for everyone who's been contributing and I want to let everyone know that any questions that we weren't able to address as a part of this webinar will hopefully be able to bring up with our discussion next week with our presenter Rachel who has generously joined in some of the conversation happening in our chat box. I think Patrick, we might have time for just one more question. We've been addressing a lot of questions dealing with insect issues. So perhaps one of the questions that we have to do with rodent infestations. Nicole noted that she recently received a collection of records that a mouse had nested in and she was advised by a conservator to let it set for about 10 to 14 days and which she has done. After she tosses out what is not salvageable, how would she go about sanitizing the rest of the paper? Well, that's an interesting question and I'm not sure why there were questions. There was a 10 to 14 day time to let it sit that I'm not sure what the reasoning for was that. There are, with rodents in the urine and dead rodents in the fecal pellets can be a vector of hantavirus which can be a deadly virus. And so anytime there's a rodent infestation, these things need to be looked at quite seriously and if you have to handle this paper, typically what we're recommended to do is to get a water, bleach mixture and we spray it down. So if it's not the collection piece itself, we spray that down and that suppresses any of the dust and hantavirus is spread through the dust in the urine and fecal matter. But on something that is actually trying to be conserved, here again you would have to protect yourself with HEPA masks and you're probably not gonna, can't use bleach on something like that. That's the better question for a conservator than me of how you go about salvaging these types of papers. But you know that there is a big health hazard with the hantavirus and you wouldn't wanna wear rubber gloves and HEPA masks at the very least and eye coverage even. So I think that answers that question. Wonderful, thank you so much. I'm afraid to say that our time is up but thank you so, so much to Patrick and thank you to all of those of you who are able to join us today. Recording of this webinar and related resources will be available shortly in the community. And our next webinar and the second part of this series is scheduled for Wednesday, September 3rd at 1 o'clock p.m. So we hope you all can join us then but in the meantime, enjoy your afternoon. Thank you so much. Thank you all very much.


It is not because unilateral secession is not prohibited as such under a rule of general international law that any people, any region and any province around the world would have a positive right under international law to secede and to declare independence. There is indeed a difference between having a right to do something and simply having the possibility, the freedom to do it and the absence of the right to do a certain thing does not mean that doing such thing would be prohibited. In the Kosovo advisory opinion, the International Court of Justice stressed that, I quote, it is entirely possible for a particular act such as a unilateral declaration of independence not to be in violation of international law without necessarily constituting the exercise of a right conferred by it, and of quote, however certain peoples have been conferred a positive entitlement to become independent. Those peoples not only have the possibility to declare independence without breaching any rule of general international law, but they actually have the right under international law to do so. Such a right to become independent unquestionably exists today in favour of non-self-governing territories and peoples subject to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation. And before addressing this important normative development and turning to the scope, the content and the nature of the right of peoples to self-determination, before doing that it is worth recalling briefly how collective entities that are not states came to be granted some rights under international law so as to acquire a certain international legal personality. And the first step stoned the way for later developments, the idea according to which some people could be endowed with the right to become independent, and to become independent states, that first idea stems from the practice of the Allied and associated powers during the First World War. In the name of the so-called principle of nationalities, according to which each people making a nation within the multinational Austrian-Hungarian empire had the right to become a state, the Allied and associated powers recognised the Polish and Czechoslovak nations during the war and considered them as core belligerents despite the fact that they were part of the territories of their enemy. And when the war came to an end, the peace treaties of 1919 dismantled the age-old multinational empire and replaced it by several new states. So the idea that a group, a people, a nation, that a group could be the bearer of a legitimate entitlement to become a state was already present in the early years of the 20th century. And furthermore, the covenant of the League of Nations established, as I recalled earlier, established a mandate system to look after the peoples of the former German colonies and also of some territories that were previously under Ottoman rule. Under Article 22 of the covenant, those mandate people were peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world. According to what was perceived at the time and with the Euro-centred prejudices as their degree of development, those peoples were administered under mandates A, B or C. However, common to all those types of mandates was the duty of the mandatory powers to look after, I quote, the well-being and development of those peoples in the name of a sacred trust of civilization. So there again, peoples were identified as bearers of specific rights and their territories were conferred an international status because they were not simply part of the territorial sovereignty of the mandatory power. Let us turn now to post-World War II practice in the next video.


This is stock number 2-0 T69A. We are here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. Your new and used light-duty truck headquarters. Today we are checking out this super clean 2019 Chevy Silverado 1500 crew cab short box LT2 with the Trail Boss Edition on it. This vehicle has the 5.3 liter V8 motor. It has been fully safety then inspected by our service shop has a fresh oil and filter change all the fluids have been checked and topped off and This truck is 100% ready to go Black clear coat is the color we shoot all of our videos in 1080p 60 frames per second So if you have HD capabilities on your computer tablet or a smartphone device turn them on right now because it is definitely your Best way to check out the vehicle before seeing it in person And if you'd like to check out all the photos on this truck in the upper right hand part Your screen is a link right to our website click that and check us out there So this one's gonna come with the 18 inch painted alloy rims And it has the Goodyear Wrangler Dura Track LT 275 65 R 18 tires with I'd say probably close to 70 to 80 percent of the tread left on them now This one's gonna have a factory two-inch suspension lift kit to it And that's part of the Z 7x package which is somehow intertwined with the Trail Boss package Front bumpers in really nice shape You do get the LED fog lamps the front bumper parking sensors the red tow hooks the black Chevy emblem the Z71 grill and The LED lighting system LED running lights and headlamps and of course those LED fog lamps. I didn't see any dents or dings on the hood here That's a nice shape passenger side front fender is an excellent condition as well You get those big Z71 emblems on the front fenders With that Z7 X package passenger side rim no scuffs or scrapes And as you go down this side of the truck take note of how clean the body is how reflective and mirror like that paint is We take these HD videos So if you are far away or even if you're close by and just cannot make the trip down But you're still interested in purchasing the vehicle You can see the vehicle hear the vehicle and have confidence in what you're looking at before you even get here So that when you get do get here. There's absolutely no surprises even of the LED cargo lamps up there That's why we offer the summit auto fast-pass option in the upper right hand part of your screen a link right to our website Where you can apply for financing get pre-approved see a payment quote even appraise a trade all from the comfort of your own home So when you get here all you got to do is drive the truck and love it Has all remaining factory exhaust frame and underbody is exceptionally clean and you do get those rancho shocks With the Z71 package back tires have just as much tread as the front tires and this back rim is an excellent condition as well Four-wheel disc brakes on this truck you get the rear bumper steps the dual rear exhaust The backup parking sensors the full towing package which includes a receiver hitch Four pin and seven pin wiring and you do get the power down tailgate. So you just press the button on There and that'll drop down like so. It's got a shock down assist So it's never gonna slam on you and you do get the LED bed lighting back here as well. There's also a 120 volt 400 watt plug-in back here Very nice roll-up tonneau cover on here and that is a gator Roll up tonneau cover. That's a nice shape and the bed has a very nice spring in bed liner and it's very clean LED tail lamps as well and as you go down this side of the truck just as clean as that passenger side No dense or dings on the box here For full disclosure this back rim is an excellent condition as well and it does have the capitalist fuel fill Down the rest of this side of the truck is very very clean And you do get blind spot monitoring in that mirror Inside you get the LT2 package which gives you the black leather interior No rips or tears on those seats power driver seat with lumbar Factory Z71 all-weather floor mats you do get the Bose sound the woodgrain door trim power windows power locks power mirrors You get auto headlamps. That's for your cargo lamps your push button four-wheel drive and is We hop inside here and turn the Information center on here in just a second Truck actually shut off on me while we were doing the walk around it must have since the key was out of it And turned off on its own Kind of a neat feature as you can see this one has 18,541 miles you get the digital speedometer Obviously the time up there and the compass and smear clusters very nice and clean you get a heated leather wrap steering wheel Bluetooth and information center controls on the right cruise controls and heated steering wheel controls on the left There's your automatic transmission And this is your Chevy my link radio Looks like you can do Android Auto apple car carplay here and You do get the backup camera as well It looks like you could do the cargo or the trailer camera if you had that installed Has the on-star turn-by-turn systems on here as well and AM FM and Looks like serious XM radio capabilities as well But that Android auto and apple carplay systems are really cool You can project your cell phone to the screen so if you got ways or Google Maps on your cell phone You can project it to the screen.  That's your start stop capabilities. You can put your tailgate down in here Your stability control that's for the power point and then your downhill assist control as well This key fob also has remote start on there You do get the dual glove boxes on the passenger side and the passenger side seat no rips or tears on that That's in really nice shape These headrests do go up and down and the headliner is in excellent shape I don't think this truck's ever been smoked in smells very clean inside You have your homemade buttons for your garage door security systems and lane systems and your on-star and SOS capabilities in the mirror and your power sliding rear window. You also get map lights up there We'll take a quick look at the back seats, and then we will check out under the hood lots of room back here the back seats are Very clean as well. You do get the latch child safety system. Do you get that power sliding rear window? They made the roof Or the inside padding of the ceiling a little bit higher in case you got tall people back here to haul around all weather format All the way across another USB and USB C jack back here as well as a 12 volt power point And then you do get storage underneath those seats. They're nice. They kind of lock into place But they don't fully lock That looks like you get even more storage behind the seats there as well pretty clever You get the child safety locks on the back doors and that woodgrain trim on the inside of the back doors as well And we'll take a quick look under the hood I would personally like to thank you for checking out the video today and hopefully from this HD video You will have been able to tell just how clean this truck is all the way around inside note under the hood We have the 5.3 liter v8 motor 355 horsepower engine base very clean runs very smooth Has a K&N cold air intake This truck has been fully safe and inspected by our service shop has a fresh oil and filter change all the fluids have been checked And topped off the truck has been gone through mechanically 100 percent and is 100 percent ready to go See more pictures of this truck or one of our other 450 new Trucks SUVs mini vans Wranglers half tons three quarter tons one tons you name it We got it go to our website www.SummitAuto.com full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle from two locations all at Summit Auto.com And if you'd like to check out more HD videos you can go to youtube.com slash summit auto Remember to like subscribe and share on this video and all the videos that you see there In fact in a second you will see link to subscribe to our YouTube channel on your left a link to more Chevy Silverado 1500 truck videos like this one on your right if you have not been to our website on the bottom Link to this vehicle on our website click those check us out And we really look forward to helping with this super clean 2019 Chevy Silverado 1500 crew cab short box trail boss with the LT2 package. Thanks again


Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Executive Summit, brought to you by Accenture. Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit here at AWS re-invent from Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We are joined by two guests for this segment. We have Greg Sly, he is the SVP platform and infrastructure at Verizon. Thank you so much for coming on, Greg. Thank you, you're happy to be here. And Amal Fadke, he is the managing director Accenture Global Network Services. Thank you so much, Amal. Thank you, Rebecca. So Greg, I want to start with you. Wani, everyone knows Verizon, it's a household brand.  Okay, well we're a global company. There's about 135-ish thousand employees in the company. The brands in there, you know, they include Yahoo and AOL and HuffPost and Riot and others, so we have a much more global reach with some of those brands overseas. Verizon is obviously very well known in the US and overseas as well, but that's really where our big plays are now. We're big in Asia as well with our e-commerce sites and stuff, so it's global and it's everywhere, so. So give our viewers an overview of this current state of where you are in your journey to the cloud, the cloudification of Verizon. Sure, so the last probably two years, we've really put a lot of focus into moving out of our data centers and into the cloud. We focus primarily on workloads that are right for the cloud because as during this journey we went, there's obviously huge data lakes and huge amounts of data over two Xs of bytes of data and trying to move that to the cloud is obviously takes some time, but a lot of our front-end apps from anything from where you order your phone or where you order services to whether you're on Yahoo Fantasy Sports or on Finance page, those things tend to work well in the cloud and they're built for the cloud for very bursty type workloads, so we spent a lot of time moving a lot of our applications plus all the new Greenfield applications up into the cloud. So we're a considerable way down the path now on that. We're now getting to the tail end with these kind of massive data sets on what's our next step for those and that's what we're working on now. Amal, I want to bring you into this conversation a little. What are you seeing right now across the industry, the current state of deployments? So I mean, just building on what Greg said, Rebecca, it's almost the third wave of cloudification that we see now, so you know that we had this aggregation of hardware and software and most operators started to go globally towards cloud and then they sort of had the second wave which was really their own private cloud infrastructures and now because we are here, you can see clearly the amount of public cloud infrastructure that's starting to come in and become relevant to these deployments. So it's almost the third wave where I see a lot of our clients globally looking at hybrid cloud type models for deployment and that really accelerates that cloudification journey because now you see a lot of workloads moving to a hybrid cloud environment. Just by the size of the ecosystem of suppliers and partners that are involved will give you a sense of how accelerated this has become. I mean, the last three years I've seen in this event doubling of the number of partners who are just moving their workloads, whether it's compute, storage, network to a hybrid cloud environment. So that acceleration has started and we expect in the next two to three years this will become mainstream. I'm always right, we've been down that exact same journey where we've done a lot of things up into the cloud like in AWS now, but we've also done a private cloud which enabled us as more like a development or a on-prem tool that allowed us to build, learn and take applications that were not really ready for the cloud or native for the cloud, build them on-prem where there'll be a little bit more freedom to do some things and then learn and then move them up to the public cloud. So we've been down that exact same journey. So I also want to ask about a buzzword here, 5G, 5G, the arrival of 5G, what it means to your industry and whether or not being in the cloud is a necessary prerequisite to really capture all the benefits. You want to start or me? Sure, I'm good. Go ahead. So I was just saying, if you look at 5G, Rebecca, the reason it's so fundamentally different from previous generations is because 5G opens up a bunch of use cases, the traditional 3G, 4G networks did not and the size and scale of those use cases, including like billions of devices and having really cool use cases like gaming and health and automotive and robotics, in turn places a huge burden on a network infrastructure which means cloudification does become a massive prerequisite. There's a level of scale, size, devices, latency profiles is something you only get when you are on a cloud infrastructure. So Greg, I don't know. Yeah, I agree 100% and this is going to drive new innovation that we've never seen before. As we, obviously being Verizon 5G is one of our big, big bets obviously and that's one of the things that Andy and Hans talked about yesterday at the announcement here at Reinvent and where we're seeing now with cloudification, it's literally I think one of the cornerstones of how it's going to work because we're going to have to put so much out to the far edge and out into as close to the customers as we can. The only way you're going to do that is through the cloud and using the cloud services like Outpost and other services to push that out close to our customers. So 5G and cloud are synonymous. They're going to go hand in hand. It's the only way that's going to work. I mean, if I just say one last thing on what Greg said, cloudification was happening anyways and it was a great efficiency driver for all organizations. 5G's almost come in and lit a match and said he's a lot of revenue opportunities that you can get on top and that has just accelerated the whole thing with distribution of 5G and cloud. So that's going to happen now. Yeah, I think we're really only seeing the beginning. It's so early on in 5G and the journey to the cloud that I think next year's Reinvent and the year after that, I think we're going to look back and say this was really just the very beginning of what we're learning, what this technology can do for the world. I want to ask about innovation and this is something that Andy Jassy talked about in his fireside chat this morning is how AWS maintains its startup mentality even though it is of course a enormous company. How do you think about innovation and approach innovation at Verizon?  It's a good question. It's something we're always pushing. I think it starts from the top with Hans. He's made one of his key pillars of innovation of what we have to drive, listening to our customers and building on what they need. But we've spent a lot of time on redefining how we work to adapt to the cloud. So the days in the past of, we'll do one release every quarter. It's now, how many releases a day can you do? And the only way you can do that innovation through bucket testing, through A-B testing is literally embracing the cloud and doing small tests here and there on stuff. So it's really now learning from the internet startups, trying to keep that startup mentality in the company the size that's 137,000 employees. But it's building that culture and I think Hans has been a great leader to really drive that different way of working. We've seen a dizzying number of announcements from AWS, new products and new services that are coming out. What has most caught your attention and how are you thinking about how to help clients capture the benefits of what AWS is offering? You know the thing that struck me yesterday when I was looking at the keynote was this is probably the first time there is a recognition in the industry that it's an ecosystem play. You know and what I mean by that is a lot of the challenges that were seen in the last couple of years around getting 5G mainstream, getting all these things in the market was who does it, who supports them and this whole ecosystem. And yesterday's announcement where Andy and Hans and other carriers like Vodafone and so on are coming in and saying you know what, let's do this together. Let's collaborate. To me that really hit the mark because as you start building specific use cases to make this real for a consumer like us, you will see that an ecosystem play is the only way to make this a reality. And that's what really struck me. If you look at wavelength, if you look at local zones, all the announcements that were done yesterday, all of them require app development communities as great partnerships, it requires hardware partnerships, services firms, it requires a firm like Accenture to come in and do this secret sauce. So there's a lot of things that have to be done there and I believe that's what really caught my eye that it's an ecosystem now. The amount of collaboration going forward is going to be unprecedented because no one company is going to be able to do all of it. So how, you're both technology veterans. I mean you're just babes, you're just teenagers of course but thinking about how different it is today versus when you were just beginning your careers in terms of, I mean we have this idea of this cutthroat competitive world of technology but as you said, these companies need each other. I mean they're competing of course but they also desperately need each other to make sure their business models are successful. So can you just describe this landscape for our viewers in terms of what you've seen as changes and whether or not these changes are for the good? Well, starting in the mainframe days which is where I started and then kind of when Windows NT in the distributed compute, you're right. It was very, do it ourselves. We're the only ones that can do it. You have to hide everything from all your competitors because we're providing a solution and nobody sees anybody else a secret sauce and obviously protecting IP was key. Now we've seen open source take a much broader stroke across the canvas and we've also now everyone's got, what do we best at and how do we use that rather than trying to be all things to everybody and building partnerships, so you're right. You know, we have partnerships with company that we compete with but we also have relationships going we need to work together to make this happen. So it is completely different from what it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago on how you're collaborating on one part of a company who's competing with one area but you're actually collaborating to build a product to go to market together on another one. So it's really interesting. I mean the market forces have changed dramatically. I mean, I remember when I was in my telecom operator days with BT, you know, we used to, as Greg said, you know, love technology. We used to start in the labs, end in the labs, you know, engineering was our sort of bread and butter and then this focus on customer centricity in the last couple of years around, so much choice, so much availability of solutions in the market and as Greg said, the collaboration is a must do now and that's why that focus changed for us. You know, I see now this customer centricity becoming so important that what does the end user really want and then that comes with it a realization that says, okay, I am not able to provide this by myself but I do know how to solve for it and that's when you have to bring in others who can create that solution.  Now it's a room full of customers telling you what they want and going at it so it's completely changed now where we'll build what the customer, what we think the customer needs, now we're building what the customer tells us they want. So it's been a 180. So Greg, I know before the cameras were rolling you were talking about how you'd been to this conference years ago and now just the growth that it has experienced has really shocked your system. What kinds of conversations are you having? What are the messages that you're hearing that are particularly resonant to you right now? This idea of the fourth industrial revolution, do you buy it? I absolutely buy it and you know, it's not just drinking the Kool-Aid because I work at Verizon, it's actually seeing what's possible in health, what's possible in gaming, automotive, industry like you were saying at the beginning. One thing that struck me and part of it was through the conversation we were having of how many people I've met here and when I was walking through the expo downstairs of like, oh we have a relationship with them now, we have a relationship with them, there's like half the floor down there that we have some sort of relationship with that we're either a customer, a partner or providing services to that it's changed where before you'd have a booth and you're like, how many people can we get over there? Now it's like, how do we get a booth with our partners that we can talk about a common solution that we're providing back so. It's been amazing from like, you know, it reinvented four or five years ago, it's like one hotel was still pretty full to like four or five hotels now with 65,000 people or something, it's amazing but the conversations before too used to be, we can only talk if we go into a private room over here. It's now that there's so many people and so many conversations and they're like, oh let me pull them all in, let me pull Rebecca in because we're all talking about the same thing now, so it's become more open, they're still sure there's IP and things we have to protect and we all have our company strategies but there's now there's so much collaboration, there's a lot more conversations going on now. Yeah, I mean the focus will now move to how do we operationalize this industrial revolution? Because that's where a lot of engineering horsepower, a lot of scaling would have to happen in terms of it would be great to launch health as a service or gaming as a service and all of these things but when things go wrong, which they will in the early years of adoption, somebody's going to have to take the call, somebody's going to have to manage the customers, somebody's going to have to, because that's where the test would happen in terms of, okay, this is going to stick and this is going to work. So to me, the next two to three years of this event will be around how do I operationalize and scale what we've now started? Because I think that's where the sort of rubber is going to hit the road. And I think even at Accenture we see this with all our work, it's moving more and more towards how do I monetize the use cases? How do I now build on it? How do I implement at scale? So that's really what I see happening. Coming up, we're on the cusp of 2020, there's so many new emerging technologies and of course the old technologies which are still pretty new, machine learning, AI, IoT, what are some of the most exciting trends that you're looking at coming in next year and the next three to five years in terms of your business and industry-wide too, Amal. Well for me, there's obviously this stuff that we're talking about with 5G and Waving, but one that really struck me at this conference was how we're going to be treating data differently or I should say storage of data differently, where before it was like by huge storage devices and you'd have petabytes and petabytes or exabytes of data in a data center somewhere, it's now distributed out to the far edge, it's going to be much more in the cloud, much more dispersed. Obviously that's going to bring challenges around with GDPR, with the California Protection Act, all of those that are coming as well of how we're going to deal with that, so absolutely 5G and the announcements that went on yesterday but in my slice of the world, looking at how we're going to manage, transform, handle, distribute data and how we're going to protect users' privacy through all of that is really interesting and I think a new field that we're, it's just changing so rapidly day to day. And one that's really part of our national conversation too in terms of privacy and security, Amal? Well I think to me the key trend would be adjacencies and what I mean by that is we've always been a little bit siloed traditionally in terms of, there is a telco industry solution and then there is a mining solution and then there is a automotive solution, right? And the technology is blurring these lines now, like as Greg said, I can have a intelligent 5G conversation with a German car manufacturing company that I wouldn't have dreamed of having a couple of years ago. So that trend is set to accelerate because 5G, H compute, all of these things are going to be more and more applicable to adjacent industries and this is why I always believe the telecom sector has a pivotal role, almost a orchestrator role that says as these industries look for solutions, we have those, we just haven't adapted and customized. That I think would be a big trend I see other industries are going to cash in on what we've done. Amal, Greg, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE, a really fascinating conversation. Thank you, pleasure meeting you. Our pleasure. I'm Rebecca Knight, stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit coming up in just a little bit.


Well, good afternoon everybody. We're perhaps more an omni shambled than an unsopple, but we'll do our best. So this is the Bring Your Own Device for Learning coordination team and we thought we'd share some of our experiences of running an open collaborative online event for staff development. We thought we'd take a bit more of an auto ethnographic approach and share some of our motivations and reasons for being involved and continuing to be involved in this event. I think for Neil, Alex and myself and Deb as well. For about five years now, five years we've been doing it. So we just want to share with you a few of our findings. Yeah, they may be juggling later as well. Ie, we want to be talking about using Chrissy's model. Obviously, we have to give a big shout out to Chrissy and Sue Beckingham, who devised the original and bring you in devices for learning, and David Hopkins, as well, but this model that you can see from Chrissy's part for PhD research, I think one of the things we found as a group working on running this event is that the group has become very very important and I think the support that we give each other … dyna yng Nghwyddaeth ydy o'r hyn oedd y Llywodraeth… … yna niferolodol a hwnnw y ddwylliant… … mae nhw'n cyffredinol adael cofaint yn cynnig wedi gael… … mae'r ffordd ar y gofal. Rydym wedi'i bod nid yn ymgrifwng ac i'r grabd yr unrhyw. Mae'n gymhwytoyn holl o fewn i'r hyn o'r cyffredin, ac yn wych chi radd hynny mae hi at dweud… … ac mae hynny yn y byw i'r grifwm… … i fynd i'r busr iddynt yn rydym yn y Llywodraeth… My cin goodness. I think we got a lot of support from the group. We do synchronous and asynchronous communication, so this model, I think we would like have some more time to explore. It resonates with some of the things we have just noticed and talked about anecdotally. I just wanted to share a little bit of that and that's something we would like to find up in more detail later. Now, I'm going to pass on to Alex. Thank you. I think that the theme of the week is the conference is like a community and it's community that is created bringing on devices for learning and it's a community that keeps it together as well because we do come together over five days once a week to look at these five seas, the themes, and it was created as was said by Sue Beckingham ac yn Deall, yn y deul gyda'r cyngorol o'ch cyflawni. Rwy'n rhaid i'r hoffa гorffwys, drwy gweithio'r ballyn. Rwy'n rhaid i'w hefyd â'r ffordd o ddiwych yn bedur ac yn ddwylliant. Rwy'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'r hoffa gyrddol. Mae'r gweithio'n belyn math yma yn ddond o'r eu lleol. ErÕn cynyddiad, yr ydych chi gêmfain ymddangos, fel eu hwn na'n deimac ar y cerdd i'w chatws. We've just augmented them slightly to bring in, so I guess more critical approach to each of those themes and extending them out and asking the participants to think about how they use social media and digital devices and bringing them on devices in very different ways and to be more critical about what they do. Yn y gallw eich myfyrdd y porwogaeth eichитеb i ffwrdd, ac mae'r rhai eu mwyaf ayrillion yn ei gwrthog fel eu gof yn ymwneud, yn ymwneud i chi'n gweithio i'r gwerthog mae'n gwael i'ch wneud o'r eich newid a'r rhaid. Mae'r ffaith yma i chi'n gweld yn tleidio, 돼요 i chi'n gweithio i'r ffaith yma.  Ac mae'n fwy o'r fwy o'r fwy o'r fwy o'r fwy o'i ddweud eich bod nhw'n gweithio arall i'r mwy o'r ddych chi, yn ymddangos i'r rhan o'r rhan o'r cyfeirio'n gwybod gan gfodol, yn gweld i'r meddwl i'r dref, Felly, mae'n gwybod i'r glofai'r lleol yw'r unedig yma yn ei dweud. Felly, iawn yn y week iddyn nhw'n gwybod i'r sesio'r unedig yma yma, mae'r ddweud â'r cifledd honno ei ddweud. Rydyn ni'n meddwl yw'r forum yn cyhoedd yn gweithio'r eu cyflaenau, â'i cyflaenau a'r ddweud o'r cyfrannu. Rydyn ni'n edrych i'r rhaid i'r gymuned yma, a'r cyfrannu yn ei ddweud o'r ddweud. mae'n fawr i'n gweithio'r cyffredinol y diolog yn ymlaen nhw'n gweithio ac yn ymlaen nhw. Rydyn ni'n cael ei ddweud i'r gweithio, mae'n ddod yn ymlaen nhw. Rhaid i'n ei ddweud. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'r gweithio'r Ffyrdd. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'r 2014 yn ystod yn gweithio'r cyffredinol, byddai'n gynghwilio'r ffordd o'r cyffredinol ar y maen nhw'n gweithio'r yma. So hallu, Roeddом jechysig yn swydden nifer o virusio, fynd i ddod ti'r ll stokedoedd Cymru. Felly dychいましたfedraethau Fyng괴, fyddwn dwydud i'r company. Ond oedd claud Ioodau a White resisting o Saoirth Openib transfxiler. Dyfodd byddwch chi'n naent. gyda ni'n gweithio fel y baig yn ddefnyddio fath oedd yn cyfnodd sgolid. Y nifer y gallwn mynd i'r hoffi o'r hoffi o'r hoffi ac yn cyfnodd sgolid,waith mae flynyddoedd yma, a so dweud i'r hoffi eich hoffi. Felly mae'r hoffi o'i goffi o'r hoffi i'r hoffi am yr hoffi a ddweud o'r hoffi i'ch hoffi a bod yn rhynglygu fo yw, pan yn ddwych yn ôl ymddech chilivŷ. A dyma hefyd yn mynd eich hoffi gyda ni'n cael ei hoffi fel decharaf. Mae'r wych, mae'n cyntaf. Mae'n llun i'r ôl, mae'n iddo i gadegrifydd yn eu chyglwydd, mae'n ddigwsio fwyprosid, dechrau mae'n ddigwsio i'r holl. Mae'n ddigwsio i'r holl, dyma yw adnod i chi, mae'n ddigwsio i'n dyma'r holl eisiau, ac mae eich ddwy i'r ddigwsio i gael i'r holl. Ddyfaint i'r holl i ni gyd, o'n ddigwn i'r cyfrifio'r pan fyddai. five years seems a long time. But then, again, it doesn't. I'm learning stuff every time I go in there, which I think is a testament to the technology, but also to the community itself, of bringing new things in, like a bit more of an example. I'll pass on to our next speaker. Hi, everybody. My name is Debbie Baff, and I'm a senior academic developer. That's Fonzie. That's Sheila, though. That's not me. Mae'n gweld i'r cwestiynau! Dysgu'n gweld i'n gweld i'w ddim yn fwy o brofynu'r dwylo'r byddiol, mae'n dwylo'r peryfridd, ac mae'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'w ddweud, ac mae'n gwybod i'ch dweud i'w ddwylo'r ddwylo'r ddwylo, a'r ddwylo i'r ddwylo'r ddwylo. Fy! Dyma'r ddwylo'r ddwylo'r ddwylo. Mae'r ddwylo'r ddwylo'r ddwylo'r ddwylo, Rydych chi'n deall maen nhw'n gweld y brindlu wathol sy'n cefnod o'i wneud arfer mae'r hyn arddangos. Mae'n edrych gymryd i weld y cyhoeddion. Ieben y gallai 27 mlynedd ar draws a 11 mlynedd ar yr oedd yn ei wneud? Gweithio ar y ffordd palon! Yn neud yma, mae ymddech chi fod yn rhoi'r ystyried chyfl gan yma? Yei! Fylltech chi'n gweithio fod mae'n gweithio'r bydd gael ychydig, mae'n gweithio'r llunydd o'r gwyrd i'r rhagol. It's not just on Twitter, it's on Google Plus as well, all sorts of things. I would really encourage anybody to get involved really because there's a lot of opportunities to come out of it. Things like this, working on cross collaborative papers and we hope to do some more research which hopefully Sheila will tell you a bit more about in a second. Well, I might not but I might. The revelation for the team this year has been from Suzanne with Bit Mochis. Who knew you can have so much fun just making it. Yn y gallwn i'n meddwl o'r Alex, Neil a Debbie yn ddegiddio'n gwybod a'r gweithwch am y sefydliadau. Mae'n gwneud o'r ysgolwch ar y team, ond mae'n ydych yn y teimlo'r team. Felly mae mae'n oed yn gweithio'r team ar y dyfodol, ond mae'n i'n cael ei gweithio i'r ysgolwch mae'n ei dda i i gael i'r eistedd a'r ysgolwch gwneudio. Yna, mae'n cael ei gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio ar gyfer y taen gwaith yn y twyd i'r llwyddiadau. Mae'n gwybod i'r ffocws ar gyfer. Felly mae'r gweithio ar eich gwybod i'r gweithio'r gweithio, rydyn ni'n i'n gweithio'r gweithio ar gyfer gwybran, ac mae'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio ar gyfer gweithio, mae'r gweithio'r gweithio ar gweithio'r gweithio. Mae hynny'n i'r meddwl i'r ddechrau rhai hwnnw, mae'n rhoi'n gweld i'r arbennigol, mae'n rhai'i cyffredinol i'n meddwl i'r ddechrau'r gweithio. C pickle like Alex said I've been able to do different things with bring your own device for learning within my institutional context I've run sessions around it I've got people to talk about how they curate within the university for example we've been able to use the li bring and share some of the learning technologies we that people might not be aware of new ond rhaid i'n teimlo'n cyfreith hon, ond mae'n mynd i ni'n gweithio'n gwybod i'i roi'r gwaith arall i ni fel eich gweithio. Prydda'n cael ei hoffi'r gymaint, roeddwn ni'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Felly, mae'n gweithio chi'n ddod o'r gweithio'r cyhoedd o'r gwahanol, mae'n gweithio'n llyfr ar gweithio'n gweithio, mae'n gweithio'r cyhoedd, oedd yn gwneud ar y cyhoedd ac mae'n cydweithio'r cyfan. Mae'n rhaid i gael y cyfaint, ac mae'n rhaid i'r hyn o'r sgwpeth a'r cyfan y cyfan y gynhyrch. Mae'n amlwg a'r cilio gyd, ac mae'n bach chi'n meddwl am hyn o'r cyfan. Mae'n amlwg amser a'r un i chi i'r cyfan ac mae'n meddwl i chi'n meddwl i chi i'u meddwl i chi'n meddwl i chi. Mae'n edrych i gyfanyddio'r ysgolion cyfan oherwydd Susann. Diolch yn c meantime i chi hynny, neu i chi bywyddo, ac wnaeth chi'n gweithio y bwysig ac roeddwn i'n iawn, so mae'n dweud. Felly, rydyn wneud ar gyfer gweithio a draw rwy'n gweithio ar y dyfodol i Aleks. Rydyn bywyddo ni'nsterio gwneud o'r amgylcheddau neu ddechrau i gŵr i ddefnyddio. Er ydy'r gwnaeth am ymgylcheddau ymlaen yn cyfaint o'r sydd hynny i'r gweld. Rydyn ni'n pwynt eich hynny naen nhw oedd ymtyd ar y gyfer ychydig o'r cyfrifculiadau ac os ydych chi'n gwybod, ac mae'n gafodd gyda'r gweithio gyda'r gweithio gwahanol o'r newydd, ac mae'n gweithio'r gweithio i'r gweithio i'r newydd yn llunio yn y gweithio. Mae'r rhagleniaid o'r ffordd yn gweithio, mae'r ffacilitator hwn yn gweithio. Mae yna gweithio'r ffordd yn y fwrdd, rwy'n gyffredin i'r bydd, a'r ydych chi'n gwneud hynny, a'r ymgylchedd yn y ddweud, I finished when it was dark. To be fair it was winter in Scotland. There's not many hours of daylight anyway, but I literally did take 52 takes of this video to get it right. I think after 24 I was quite happy. I sent it to Alex and said, what do you think? He said, oh boy you've done it in four days. We really want these things to be in landscape, so 28 tries later I had my video, but I guess just having that confidence to know that you're in a supportive environment to try new things. I wonder the gauding things about this, and you'll see there's different times on the video. Some of them were two minutes, four seconds before I had to bend it. I fluffed up between 21 seconds, but the end of it culminated in me juggling. I was talking about having my working life, my home life, and this was the fragility in my imposter syndrome about what happens if things go wrong. The end of the video involved me juggling, so I'm going to give that a bash now. I will admit that I have actually hard boiled this egg. I didn't do that at home. This is me trying to juggle my work life. I'm just going to pass it over to Alex now to talk about the opportunities that bringing on devices learning has brought to all of us. It came all the way from Scotland. It actually mentioned that on the MeToo yesterday. Does everyone travel from Scotland with a tar-boiled egg? No, it definitely doesn't. I think as we've said it is a useful way of extending your personal learning network and finding support out there. There are lots of learning technologies, educational developers who are really keen to harness the technologies that we have within our institutions. This is just one other way, which is very easy, supportive, friendly, and low risk way that you can get involved to develop your skills in whatever technology that you're interested in. I think that's really important. It does force us to try out new tools. Last night I tried out Snapchat, which I'm almost ashamed to admit, and it was okay. Some of the filters were horrific, if I'm totally honest. Again, this is another tool that the students that are coming into our institutions are using and communicating almost every single day. We have to, at the very least, understand some element of it. The fact that it's cross institutional collaboration is really important. We're all working in different parts of the universities that we work in, and that just helps with that context, where we are, the developments and changes. What you tend to find is that universities, even though they've got different names from the Russell group or elsewhere, they tend to have the same kind of issues and the same type of problems. So being that kind of sharing community behind us is kind of really valuable for me and everyone associated with it. Also, it gives us the opportunity to come and share the work that we do, and I say work in the lucid sense. It is incredible. I mean the setting in the sense that it's a kind of amount of fun working with these guys every January. It just makes that whole experience of your nine to five and beyond much more pleasurable. So thank you all for that. I was forced to add this in last minute. But it's not all about us. We do need new people, as we've seen, fresh people to come in with new ideas and help develop and change this course. And that's what we've got, and that's what we'd like you to be involved in. So get in touch with us, speak to any of us at the conference over the next couple of days, if you're fortunate enough to be here for those three days. Or get in contact with us on Twitter. All our handles are there. And you can actually see a little bit more about the course from the link up there. And if you're looking for more references, there's a couple here. So thank you very much for that. Thank you. Answer it, especially the last part. But there are a few people just sort of wondering what actually is it? It's obviously great fun. My question is, do you have a Facebook page? I think we did at one point. But yes, Google Plus and Twitter seem to be the spaces that people have gravitated towards. And yeah, Facebook doesn't seem so much. And I'm not sure of that. I think it kind of reflects certainly my relationship with Facebook. I think quite a lot of people now just want Facebook to be for family and friends and not for work stuff. So I think there was a bit of that. But I think thinking about new technologies, Snapchat, one of the things that Suzanne did, as well as just coming in to be a facilitator, Suzanne shared how she had been using Snapchat with her students. And you wrote a case study and you did a blog post. So I think in a week there was a huge amount of digital capabilities that were wrapped up in that week. So that's the whole point of the week, is to get people to talk about how they're using different technologies. But if anyone wanted to be part of bringing your own device for learning and wanted to set something up in Facebook, absolutely fine. You can go ahead and do that. We wouldn't stop anyone doing that. We wouldn't stop anyone doing that. It was just we found that it seems to be Google Plus and Twitter and the...  Every week we have five days. So each day has a theme, as Alex said. And we have a blog post that will give you some suggested links, some things you might want to talk about. And then each night we have a tweet chat, usually from eight till nine. And that has tended to be, I think in the last three years, that's where most activity takes place. It's a huge amount. And people seem to... I don't know because it's the dark nights or something. People have cup of tea and get on Twitter. Quite cathartic. Quite often there's challenges within that tweet chat. Yeah, we have questions. New tools. So does anybody else have any further questions on what it is, how to get involved? You don't have to be able to juggle, by the way. No, we can't. Pardon? How qualified do you have to be? Oh, no, it just has to be... Not at all. I mean, if you want to be... No, no, it's for anyone. I mean, basically, I mean... I don't know if any of us are qualified to do anything. The only qualified thing we would ask is time. Because if you're one of the facilitators, you have to do a bit more of the organisation, so there's a bit more involved in that. But not a huge amount because it's a team effort. And everything works out naturally. If you want to be a participant, again, there's absolutely no qualifications. And if you're curious about using social media, particularly in learning and teaching, taking part in a tweet chat is a great way to just experience it. You don't have to answer, and you can just watch. So the only qualification we'd ask is just a willingness to be part of something. You don't have to do the whole week. No, you just definitely have to do one day or do an hour or ten minutes. Sorry, the question. Has the group reversed from this idea of radio advice? It seems to talk quite a lot about just using tools for learning, using new tools for learning. Well, when it started, I think because BYOD was kind of the thing probably five years ago, it was a big thing. Just now we still use that. I think it's more kind of almost like a brand. But it's extended. It's less about your own device and it's more about the general use of technology and learning, I would say. So it's opened up, but it still has that. We've got the hashtag and it's got that kind of identity, but it's moved on from that. So the original focus was very much kind of, I think that was probably when iPads came out and more people would get that Christmas if everyone got an iPad, I think. But it's good. We should have done that at the beginning. Note to self. Yeah, we possibly. Yeah, again, that's why we need new people and new ideas. Come along, volunteer. That sounded like a volunteer to me. Yeah, it did. So to give you an idea about it, we have probably about, I think, about a couple of hundred people every night on the tweet chats. I think over the week we get something, we certainly it's maybe like 10,000 tweets. It's not as big as it is all in terms of Twitter. Twitter or what do you think? Yeah, we do. Every week. Every year we break Twitter. So it is a great place to experiment if you haven't, particularly more of the social media type tools if you haven't used them. It's a good place to actually, and it's quite short as well. It's just a week, as Deb said, you don't have to do all of the week and dip in and out. I think as well, with regards to using new tools in a community, if somebody says, I'm going to try this tool, will you try it too? And therefore you've actually got that to try something because somebody else is relying on you to try it as well. The conversation continues because on the way, I'm travelling on the train yesterday on the way down, Suzanne was doing a Snapchat tutorial for us in Snapchat. On the way. Snapchat is a tutorial tool with my students. They get really high levels engagement. They don't engage on forums in Moodle, but they're very much engaged in communicating on Snapchat. Oh, and you get gadgets. Does anybody else have any other questions before we go into her clothes? So, since we've got five presenters here, it would be very easy to get hold of them in the break that we've got now downstairs. And so, if you could all thank the presenters for very interesting information. Thank you very much. Thank you.


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We're here at ITU Telecom World 2019 in Budapest, Hungary and I'm very pleased to be joined in the studio today by Professor Umar Gaba Dambatta, who is the Executive Vice-Chairman and CEO of the Nigerian Communications Commission. Professor Dambatta, welcome to the studio. Thank you very much, Max. It's a pleasure to be here. Great to see you. Great to see you too. Now, I'd like to start off, we'll talk about innovating together, innovation that matters. It's the theme of this year's event. What makes connectivity meaningful and why is it so important, do you think? Well, connectivity is meaningful and necessary for the delivery of services. If connectivity is not available, it's not accessible, then the services that we intend to render as results, opportunities, they will not be there, people will not be connected, people will not have access to services that will in turn transform their lives. That will in turn lead to what we call social and economic transformation of economies and societies. In terms of innovative policy, what single factor or innovative policy can best accelerate digital transformation in your opinion? Well, let us look at digital transformation. What are the exciting opportunities of digital transformation? Improvement of learning, putting in place a stain and shared prosperity, creating a competitive and innovative economy. The list is endless, facilitating a more open, mobile and cohesive society. How do you do all this? How do you reach out to the millions of people who are yearning to benefit from these opportunities? This can be achieved through the deployment of infrastructure. By addressing the infrastructure deficits in our individual countries, we can bring all these opportunities to the steps of our citizens and that is what we are doing in Nigeria. And how is Nigeria working towards an inclusive digital economy? We are doing this by ensuring we deploy, like I said, the necessary infrastructure. The country, the entire country has been divided into seven zones, as I'm talking to you. Each zone has been assigned an infrastructure company to deploy broadband infrastructure. The idea is to make wireless and fixed broadband infrastructure ubiquitous. This, if we can do, we hope, will lead to the rollout of broadband services that will in turn, in fact, positively on citizens' transformation socially and economically. And what about 5G? What progress is Nigeria making in 5G deployment? And what are the challenges and opportunities linked to that? We are, like all countries, trying to roll out proof-of-concept trials. We don't want to be caught unprepared when eventually 5G is with us. To do that, we need to involve the security agencies and get the permission of the federal government to start the proof-of-concept. In preparation for doing this, we have resolved some spectra, 26, 38, and 42 gigahertz. And the idea is to do a trial with a view to ascertaining the signal strengths in locations that will provide 5G services. The particular usage scenario we're interested in is enhanced broadband services. Among the other, the three scenarios. The reason for this is we feel broadband can be used to transform other sectors of the economy, transform governance. And therefore, by targeting this key sectors of the economy, we will be transforming the entire country. Many people here, I'm sure, will wholeheartedly agree with you. I wanted to ask you, what's the value for you of attending events such as ITU Telecom World? As always, Max, we attend ITU Telecom World in order to benefit from global best practices in order to find out what is going on in other economies, to borrow from their experiences, and also share ideas on how we deploy services in the area of emerging technologies, 5G, Internet of Things. Coming here, we'll enrich our experience on how best we're going to do this. Well, thank you very much for sharing your insights with us. And we look forward to catching up with you again, as we have done on numerous occasions again in the future. Thanks a lot very much. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, Max. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.