of the first day last today, but definitely not least an incredible conversation that we are only going to be diving deeper into. Welcome to disability and care. The conversation on caregiver support and community and the interconnected access with the disability community. Correct me on your names at any point please I want to learn them. We have Amy Chu here. An artist and multidisciplinary artist in Seattle. We have Johanna Maynard Edwards, who is the executive director of the National Women's Theater Festival, and a pal partner. And we welcome pro bono ASL. Thank you interpreters for creating access in this space at our sessions today. I'm going to read our community agreements after Timania shares the land acknowledgement so I'd like to invite Timania to the spotlight please. Hello. I am coming to you from the land of the Lene Lenape people whose historical territory includes the places, colonially known as Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Long Island, and the lower Hudson Valley. For more than 10,000 years the Lenape people have been stewards of these lands, as well as the river of human beings or the Delaware River. Over the past 250 years, many of the Lenape people were forcibly removed from their ancestral lands and dispersed throughout the country, though some families have remained. These families continue the traditions of their ancestors to this day. The balance that removes the Lenape from their homeland is a powerful part of the history of Pennsylvania, and we acknowledge that in this moment that we work and we live on these very lands. This is the story of the entire country. We encourage you to learn about the lands where you live and work and the history of the people who live there before colonization, many who still live there today. They are often starved of the very resources that they protected for so long, including access to housing, sustainable food practices, safety, clean water, and the land where they once lived with their families. This information was provided in part by www.lenape-nation.org. Thank you. And I'm Tamanya Garza, the National Director of Community and Justice Initiatives for PAL. Thank you so much for your work and being asked into that space. We receive and acknowledge that land acknowledgement. Some community agreements for all of us in the space, including our participants in the Zoom and our participants watching the stream. As a session participant, you commit with us to welcome all caregiving responsibilities and realities in the background or foreground of any meetups, phone calls, and exchanges, and embrace your life in our pursuit of productive and supportive practices. As a session participant, you commit with us to creating a transgender and non-binary affirming space, all language that includes but is not limited to mother, parent, dad, caregiver, etc., applies to any individual who identifies with the term and we welcome them and support that. As a session participant, you commit with PAL to creating spaces rooted in justice in anti-racism in our structures, practices, policies, principles, and producing. As a session participant, you commit with us to creating safe and supportive spaces for disability access and inclusion and all access needs present in the space. Thank you so much everyone for joining us and welcome. I'll put the community agreements in the chat in case that's a more supportive way to engage with them. And thank you again to our panelists for joining. We're going to have a conversation on the disability community and the interconnected reality of parenting and caregiving beyond just parenting. So I would love to invite Amy to self-introduce so that you can share into the space how you would like us to identify with your lived experiences. Share with us about who you are as an artist. Let's go first. Amy, yes, please welcome. Hi, everyone. My name is Amy. My sign name is here on the lip because I have this lip gloss right here. I'm an Asian woman and I also identify as deaf. I am a mother of two children, ages three and eight. I'm a play writer and actress here in. Sorry, correction. I'm a play writer. Thank you for clarifying interpreter. I'm a play writer and actor. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Johanna. I'd love to hear from you. I'm Johanna. I run the National Women's Theater Festival. I became disabled by a chronic illness that I was diagnosed with in 2017 called Takayasu's Arteritis.   And I am a caregiver to parents who are, my father has a diagnosis of Parkinson's disease and really body dementia. And a mother who needs extra support in caregiving and a mother-in-law who just got home from the hospital and needs mobility support. So, and obviously I'm a caregiver of this dog who decided to get into the foreground right now. So, those are my disability and caregiving intersections right now. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. And now it's my pleasure. I would actually love to read from your bios and here's the importance of that. I would love to speak into this space, both of your incredible professional contributions and acknowledge that you are extraordinary artists who we all should be grateful to know. So I'm sharing this now. Amy is a deaf multi-hyphenate. This summer she performed in Children of a Lesser God at Hope Summer Repertory Theater. Prior acting credits include Please Untranslate Me at IRT Theater, Kiki's Delivery Service at Theater Battery, and Understanding at Oregon Shakespeare Festival. Acting credits include Tiger Style at Huntington Theater. Playwright credits include Thoroughly Zoomed Out at Ars Nova, Mother Clucker Theater Battery, and Humanly Possible at Deaf Spotlight. Her short play Plum Crazy Pipe Dream was selected for an expanded 2022 production at the Deaf New Play Festival hosted by Rochester Institute of Technology and TID. She is currently preparing to workshop a new play, Autocorrect Thinks I'm Dead. Amy is a mother of two. Amy, thank you so much for bringing your full self into this incredible space. And now I'll do the same for Johanna. Johanna Maynard Edwards is the Executive Artistic Director of the Women's Theater Festival based in Raleigh, North Carolina. She has directed, devised, and produced in New York City, Minneapolis, and the Triangle. A passionate arts educator Johanna has been a teaching artist at Raleigh Little Theater, together, Sterling Montessori, Learning Spring, North Carolina Governor's School, and at Longleaf School of the Arts. Johanna is a chief rep for PAL, the Parent Artist Advocacy, waiting for the performing arts, and serves on the arts learning community for universal access through the Office of Raleigh Arts. She also serves on the STTC Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, and Access Task Force. Johanna is a graduate of NYU Tisch School of the Arts, Playwrights Horizons Theater School. She resides in Franklinton, North Carolina with her husband, son, their puppy rookie, and their three cats, Trixie, Robert, and Emmy Lou. I love those names. Thank you so much Johanna for joining us. Yes, and we have some hellos happening in the chat. As we're engaging, I would encourage folks who are gauging us in the space to start dropping your questions in the chat, and I will start with mine for these incredible speakers. So we can get to know them a little better. And you may wonder why are we spending so much time learning about these people is because that is the very first step to understanding how to create access. I'm not going to be the one to share that with you. It's going to be centering the voices of the folks who have it. So it's about time. Thank you for joining me. I would love to start with you. And we've, we met recently to have a conversation about caregiver support in Seattle. And I would just love to hear from you. Any past experience or recent experience or inspiration and what prompted the conversation. Yeah, this year. I've had a few experiences. As a mother, there are so many barriers that I have to deal with and I have to be able to accept, you know, the work. Firstly, I did like theater in Michigan in the summer. It was before. Excuse the interpreter. I was still figuring out the acting at the bull house. I'm wondering if children and family were allowed to stay there for this residency program. Because of the pandemic that was going on so restrictions for that allowing that to happen were heightened. That was the first challenge that I experienced this year. Also, I needed to decline the opportunity to do a workshop in New York City because now I'm transitioning to zoom, doing remote play work and live theater through zoom. But there's just so much more challenging work.  So we're starting to, I'm starting to think about who else out there is experiencing the same thing that I'm going through. I'm a disabled person but also really challenging not only is a disabled person but just as a mother in general. So that's kind of what's been going on with me. Everything you shared is so relatable or at the very least comprehensible for us from an empathic standpoint. In terms of, you know, the obstacles as a mother before COVID, what was that experience like? Because I know that it's just exacerbated but what were your experiences earlier on? Prior to COVID, I still had to depend heavily on family support because my dad is retired, he retired in 2018. So he could babysit my children but now I mean, as they're becoming older, I don't want to, or excuse me as my father's becoming older, I don't want to have to depend on him so much. You know, it's not sustainable. And it's not fair to my dad. I am so grateful for him. I'm so grateful though. Yeah, that's wonderful. You're describing how we dip into our own pockets of support to create support elsewhere and that redistribution of resources for the individual can become prohibitive. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. Johanna, I'd like to show you like through that we have agreements in the chat. Johanna, I'd like to throw you the same prompt in terms of, you know, in the first engagement with Pal, we just see ourselves as a platform. What was your inspiration for engaging in terms of your own story? Yeah. Before I lose that, the train, if I don't, if you don't mind me just yes ending what Amy expressed and just that it seemed, it's like I'm always using all of my caregiver goodwill. Like, I just used it to go to Miami to be by my mother's bedside for a week. So that means I have no more use of husband resources, right. He had to take off work for all of that. So now we don't have that resource anymore. So it's just, it's a never ending cup of that. But yes, going back to and I have a cold. I'm just going to name that. So, when I joined women's theater festival as a volunteer and then a board member. It had been after the first three and a half years of my son's life, which were intense, to say the least. And through the process of his diagnosis and just all of the different therapies and supports and preschools and speech therapists OT, PT, everything a million times a week, medicine that I just thought that's what my life was from now on like I thought my career in theater was over, and that I'm lucky to live in a community like the Raleigh Durham triangle area where there's a robust community theater community. So that I could just tap into that from time to time. When theater festival came along, and it was like, okay. It was blessed that I was a frazzled worn out mama, who just wanted to use her expertise and skill to help build this grassroots organization. And actually the month that I moved from board member to managing director of this organization was just before I was diagnosed with my autoimmune disease so if anyone here who's been through the process of having something rare and strange knows, you go through a period where you are in agony, and nobody knows why, but they can't give you anything for it because to do that would be suppressing what's happening and then they can't do the tests. So it, I was bedridden, I was completely bedridden, and I was trying to take the reins as managing director and producing the first show that I was responsible for producing for the organization and doing it all from bed. So, like, this organization has had to make space for me at the onset in a radical way. And so, as I've gone from volunteer to the executive artistic director. It's, it's my job and my privilege to create other pathways of access, you know, to say, I know what it's like to have many, many intersecting needs and many, many intersecting reasons why this is hard. And also, to be able to show, but aren't I worthy of being here? Aren't, don't I deserve to be in this space too? Don't we all value from what I bring? So, yeah, that's, that's where it started. And does it get easier? I don't know. Thank you so much for all of that. You know, at our first session, Noelle Diane Johnson from Artist Heal, who is moderating the conversation, shared the phrase, walking out of the fire, carrying buckets of water for your community.  But for this conversation, just being able to share or I guess engage with your own experiences to create paths for others is what you both are doing having this conversation here, but also the work in your life. Thank you for all of that. And also, Joanne, it's so interesting, our second session, you know, from, you know, beautifully with Roberta Pareda, who's incredible, inclusive producer who feels the same way, having this conversation of it's not, do we have the numbers to support people? The question asked is, aren't I worthy that you just phrase, aren't I worthy, aren't I valuable? And, and identifying what resources we need to find from that perspective is so empowering. So thank you for introducing that context. So moving from your, you know, moments of inspiration and the paths you're on now, I'd love to offer the prompts to both of you, and I'll offer back to you, Amy, of what do you wish folks knew in your community about the intersection between disability and caregiving? I wish people and particularly the theater community. Unicorns. Oh, I wish people in the theater community were not thinking that we're unicorns. Parents who do theater, we're not unicorns, we're there. We just don't have the resources to do it, you know, we've always been there. We need to build this kind of a pathway for people like us. We don't have anything about people we are here. Parents who do theater. Recently I met with somebody, or excuse me, recently I met with Rachel three weeks ago. The Sound Theater Company and, you know, we used to work there. Right as a grant writer. And did I did some PR for Sound Theater. I wanted to establish some, you know, get a grant for caregiver responsibilities, you know, to provide caregiver child care responsibilities. And so we wrote a line item in this grant. Or in the budget rather. And maybe this is the first step. And it's just surprising that it's not actually that expensive. It's not like it's a little to take up all of the budget, you know, but we all have to make this effort and putting in that line item in the grant writing so we can all have these, maybe, you know, push the agenda of this opportunity. And then the Seattle area, we have a very big theater company or excuse me community. We need to get the ball rolling now. 100%. We have a question in the chat was the line item for parenting or for disability. And maybe that's not even the binary distinction. If you could expand what you were advocating for. What. That's a great question as for being a deaf theater person. My main complaint is. The budget for interpreters is higher than the budget for hiring a deaf playwright or a deaf theater person, so to speak. It's just, it's, it's not equitable. I mean, it's not fair. 100%. So I just want to circle back this idea of what a phrase to introduce we are not unicorns in terms of folks with family responsibilities in the theater. Thank you for that. And then to identify the budget line item of, you know, making it distinct between ASL interpreters and caregiver support. And then also identifying that when we engage with actual numbers, it is not that high. And that has been a big mission of power to advocate for and a perfect transition for me to throw the ball to Johanna Maynard Edwards because this is work that she has also been doing that she's been applying organizationally, which is one of the reasons why the National Women's Theater Festival is the how host organization in the triangle and national partners with us because of their commitment to that budget line item. And Johanna so if you could first share the prompt, what do you wish folks knew about the intersection between caregiving and disability. And then transition, because I saw you set up a Susan came up and I love it. And then transition into the budget conversation on the line item for parenting slash disabilities. What I wish people knew is how, how tender we are. Those of us who are facing so much just to get into the rehearsal room. I wish, I wish people understood in an empathetic way. How tired I am how tired. All of us are who are who are facing these inter multiple intersections of what else we have to do with our energy and our resources of time and energy. And how it's how it's hard to plan for because it changes right my my needs. And, you know, using the spoon theory of, of chronic illness and disability of we only have so many spoons of our energy to give each day that can change from day to day, from week to week. And if my mother in law falls, that changes what I'm going to be able to do at rehearsal that night. If my son has anxiety and refuses to go to school Monday Tuesday and Wednesday it changes what I'm able to get done each individual day.  So just all of these different ways of understanding that we have to loosen our sense of control and perfectionism on our product our work product. It's going to it benefits everyone who is facing a marginalization to do that. Okay, talking about what line item is it parenting or disability. It's, this is my favorite thing to talk about as a budgeting person for my organization is that it's all access that we have one access line and parent parenting needs and caregiver needs are access needs. What do you need to access this process to access this program to show up for work with your whole self what do you need what are your access needs and getting super duper comfortable naming all those things. And we all have to unlearn that we can do that right because we don't know what to ask for if we've never had the opportunity to ask for it and that's why pal such an important organization to say, here's all these things that you could be asking for that you didn't know you could be asking for. So we, in my organization, we put it all as access, and then the sub lines are access slash ASL interpretation access slash childcare access slash captioning access slash and then down the list of what that service is or what that theater is going to be. Does that make sense. 100% Thank you, and I also want to circle back to your first response in regards to the tenderness and the exhaustion I just want to share a comment was shared exhaustion can be a powerful thing with disabilities, and that can be problematic with theater. Absolutely thank you for for bringing that into the space the conflict between even being tired, and how engaging with a disability requires your resources in a different way, and how the toxic theater culture demands, all of your resources all of the time. And so then, how is that even possible to contribute, if that's the work culture. I think it's so important because you know, when folks are looking at creating caregiver support. The danger we always try to warn against is that this is an act of benevolence that oh it's a charity being offered to a niche group who needs our help when actually we're asking folks to engage with. How does your organization have a conversation on access and care. Thank you there are folks who do not identify as parents or caregivers who need more care and support. If this is a new conversation that you're having. And just to share with folks we, we recommend the three steps, asking, is it legal. Is it ethical. Is it compassionate. Number one be compliant. Number two know that it's the right thing to do, not a benevolent thing and number three compassion comes in when you have empathy plus action. So, these stories are being shared with all of us so that we recognize, we're all caregivers at some point. So folks are have disabilities than even have recognized them yet. So we cannot predict what someone needs unless they have agency to ask for it unless there's a safe enough space, and then their support to engage. So just want to identify that exhaustion being being a key factor tenderness vulnerability and then honoring what you all put into be contributors to our field and say thank you. Someone shared in the chat, anyone in a theater at any given moment could find themselves in a different or new position in terms of experiencing disability firsthand, and it's short sighted not to make space for this. And at the same time, someone shared it is simultaneously true that people underestimate people with disabilities. So I would love to use that as a prompt. And in terms of asking for an example of when you have the experience support that really made you feel honored and seen. And in what do you wish folks knew about folks folks in the disabilities community who are artistic contributors, how they should be valued and not underestimated. And what is your hope and call and challenge that's and we can start with you, Johanna, and then throw the ball to Amy. Hey. All right. It's a two parter, let me just reiterate the two parts. That's what say it again. My fault. I'm getting so excited about this conversation or just tell me everything. An example of support where you felt honored. And then to what you wish folks knew about you as an artistic contributor, like, so about why not to underestimate you as a powerful force. Okay. Okay, there's a lot of times that I feel supported, but I want to say that the pandemic and being able to make virtual theater and to commune virtually like this has been the most revelatory thing for accessibility. I have just, I've been being able to be very prolific as an artist and as a producer by virtue of being able to do it from home naming this very moment. I did not have to get on a plane. I did not have to book a hotel to come to this conference. I did not have to walk up the subway stairs and walk down the subway stairs and do all those things right. So, just making our pandemic shifts have really been huge in terms of making space for more access. More parents can participate if they can do it from home. I mean, yeah, our kids might be screaming in the other room but we've now gotten used to that right. So that's the, any time people want to shift back or say back to in person theater, I bristle because I just like, don't you want me to still get to play? I still want to play but I can't do everything that everyone else can do. I think virtual theater would be my overarching answer for ways that I'm able to be supported in the work. I just, I'm freaking out thinking about how like, just in terms of being an artistic director and standing and welcoming every guest who walks in the door to an opening night feels like impossible right now. So that, and it has also allowed me to experience the work of so many people and brought so many other disabled artists to the forefront of me getting to know them and their work. Like Claudia Alec and the chance to get to work with them through our fringe festival and just, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah so much. Hello Christina, our pal rep in Los Angeles shared the silver lining of this time more accessibility. I just want to uplift that as well. I actually had someone write me and also talk about virtual theater as access for parents. And I'm just going to say a huge yes I've done more theater and hung out with more theater folks in the pandemic, then I have my entire parenting journey. And it's because I don't have to be spending $25 to $30 an hour while I hang out with you and hope we work together one day and just burn that cash so just a huge yes, a huge yes. You're talking about space access to that your physical body is not being taxed just to greet people and make an appearance. And so I'm here for opening night to function. Like, to me, if we're talking about not wasting resources. We shouldn't waste the brilliance of who you are as an executive director because I've seen how you budgeted and grown this organization in extraordinary ways. And the madness of we could be missing out on your talents and your contribution to this field, because we insist on showing up to a building. I think it's a typical, I think, and really used to be at the end. Yeah, I'm going to say it into this space because I live for it during the pandemic. We increase my organization's revenue by 156%. All of it going back out to pay people.  So, like, that's the power of radical access. Yeah. Yeah, and National Women's Theater, that's what intentionally engages folks with access needs intentionally. Which is, and I'm going to stop talking in seed space, but which is not to say don't hire me don't ask me to come work at your theater like it might take me a little bit extra. I do want to, I do want to come work at other companies I do want to, I'm ready my son's nine I'm ready for contract work I can leave him home. Come on and hire me please. But listen how, and all of these calls so far in the summit and the whole history of this conversation. And then through the ball to you Amy to ask for your supportive examples and what you wish folks knew about yourself as an artist. We are constantly unpacking the binary. Yes I love virtual theater but then don't say that you're not going to offer me a job on site. Yes I love being home with my kids but then don't ask me to leave them home, not to leave them home and come to your theater that would be great sometimes too. Please take the either or out of our thinking in terms of access, give the person agency to say no, or yes to an opportunity, and then ask what do you need, and that's how the conversation can continue. I would love to hear from you in terms of a time you felt supported and what you wish we all knew in terms of the value of you as an incredible artistic contributor to this field. That's a great question so for my example. There's just so many different things that I've gone through. The theater is such a different thing. There's so many ways that you can measure it. And so different in so many ways. The OSF the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. Go ahead to Rika. Right so the OSF is a big part. They have a big budget for interpreters for rehearsals. They have workshops, just other, you know, other theater things that are related not just show. And this is, you know, it's a nonprofit theater, you know, they don't have a huge budget, but they show so much support for access needs. Very flexible with scheduling. They start their table readings early, rather than later because as in later in the day so that I can put my kids to bed and then join the table reading, you know, it's things like that kind of schedule flexibility. I mean there's just a myriad of ways that they're supportive and I also want people to know support is being supportive is not an all or or or like the binary you were just talking about earlier, either or. I mean some people are going to think.  But you know go ahead audition try and or go ahead and support this person try and see what can happen. I don't expect the interpreter. I don't expect interpreters for every single rehearsal. I mean it would be great, or like the tech rehearsal or something and I don't expect that. But you know for the important, really content heavy. But you even 100%. It's the call to action of do something. Don't refrain from doing anything because you're afraid you can't do everything you said Amy at the beginning, it all matters, the smallest bit of support and I think that that's incredible wisdom for everyone to adopt. Yes, it's mentioned in the chat shout out to Nataki, the artistic director of Oregon Shakespeare Festival and incredible access advocates, a part of calls advisory board, and a mother herself, but an advocate for access and change. Well, so shout out to always have them thank you for all you do. Amy and I would love to hear about you as as an artist more about what you wish folks knew in terms of the value of your contribution and your opportunity to say, I'm worthy of this because I am. I'm trying to think about something nice to say about who I am. I know that might feel silly. It's a little challenging of a question. So I don't know. Maybe we can go back to thinking about what's going on now or. I mean I will, I will hold on now and I'll put a pin in it and then I'll just think about it for a little bit and then maybe we can circle back to it later, because I'm coming up with blanks right now. Absolutely. I know from personal experience and having you in on the calls. I found you to be such a generous advocate and seeking out ways that you could improve your own organizations internally to creating support for other people because of your lived experience so we'll definitely circle back to that and I just want to acknowledge my first hand experience of you as a contributor in the space as someone folks should be bringing into all of their theaters. We're, we're nearing the Q&A time for folks so I want to give a few minutes. I was thinking I just thought of something right now, or, or while I'm, while I will, I'm going to keep thinking about it so sorry yeah I, we can go ahead and do that. No, I love, I love hearing artists talk about. Oh, something just came up for me so. For me, I would give one important thing about me as a disabled artist. I think it's so important that deaf, hard of hearing, deaf, blind people write scripts, because when we write the script, I mean that there's more deaf, hard of hearing and disabled people that get selected and has to come into the work to work backstage to work as technicians for the play as directors as translators. I think that's something that I want to encourage people to do especially mothers with disabilities to just write, you know, write the scripts it really gives. And then we can work out about anything else that we might need like scheduling and accommodations when it's coming from people like people from the community who are putting in that kind of work. Yes. Well, um, yes, sorry. It took my breath away a little bit it's essentially the access breeds access conversation that you just pointed out so beautifully. Because that, you know what you're identifying is so empowering, folks will see it as a bit if we have to create access for this group then we have to create access for more groups and it's like, that's exactly the point. So your call to action for deaf, blind, other artists with disabilities to write the scripts will demand for theaters to acknowledge this is the community to support in your space. Always, because they will make it possible for this place. I just want to thank you. Yes to that. Incredible. And also, thank you. We should also make a pitch for more matinees late nights are really rough. So now, honor that. Thank you for that drop in, but thank you Amy. For sure. If we could populate the chat now with any questions that are in the room that you all have in terms of experience or recommendations on creating access that would be wonderful. Or if you have a question that you would like to ask anonymously, you are also welcome to in terms of sending a direct message to me and I will share it into the space privately. And I will start with my own question because I know it takes a while for the text to come in. In terms of creating more more opportunities for this conversation. Amy you introduced the prompt of, you know, hire more writers with disabilities. What are what are other thoughts on how to create more opportunities for this conversation inside organization so it doesn't just stay on this power platform. The whole goal is that it breeds platform inside. So I would like to share and both invite to that conversation. I'll go first if that's okay. This is Amy. Before COVID hit. I was on the contract with a big theater at the American Playhouse. It's in Wisconsin. And I've never, this company has never hired a deaf person before I was the first time. I was really, they were really motivated to learn how to, you know, accommodate. I was, I was hired as a cultural cultural advisor. They were really, we'll pay you to you on your experiences. I guess having a disability means there's a lot of emotional labor involved. And they recognize that the emotional labor that is involved. I taught them a lot. It was a full day. I mean, it was a really cool experience. They learned a lot and I was willing to, I was, you know, they were willing to pay for that. I got paid for that. Awesome, as you should. And I love hearing that. That your labor, yeah, had value that should be valued on the budget line item that yes, these opportunities for education of people's lived experiences need to be honored that way. That's awesome. We have a question that I, then we'll jump to Johanna if that's okay, because it's I believe it's inspired by Amy's recommendation. In the chat, how do you think writers, how do you think theaters can find more writers with disabilities, not identify as an organization that we do have an organizational recommendation. And if that's supportive. And that's first though. What is it called HD, the American theater of the disabled disabled people are there's some, there are so many theater organizations and groups that you can look to you get in touch with them. You can ask them, you know, where your playwrights writers at festivals you can meet people festivals, and then that's a, or when you watch plays at festivals you can say oh that was a really cool story and you can get in touch with the person who wrote it. And then you offer them an opportunity to write based on whatever theme that you're proposing your pitching. That's one yeah. I don't know I. We're not unicorns. We are money we're not rare. Yeah. Yeah, and I would build built beneath that to more organizations need to start self identifying as institutions that want to create access, because so often, you know, even with caregiver support, which is why we say, you know, don't just put it on the EEO statement, put it, you know your commitment to anti discrimination against family responsibilities, put it on your audition calls that there is a childcare fund in this production so you don't have to not audition for this piece. You know, when children are welcome in the audition space, etc. We have to flip the conversation from how do we find this who will expose themselves, and they're potentially very personal lived experiences for us to hire, and put it on us to say how do we expose ourselves as an institution who is learning in this area and wanting to grow. And if that feels vulnerable. I would just kind of flip the script back and say, imagine how vulnerable it feels on the individual to identify themselves for potential work. Because the risk needs to go to the institution where the risk is low because of the power dynamic and the resources are higher than on the individual to self identify before the job comes in where the resources are low, and the risks are high. I would encourage anyone who wants to take and should take Amy up on this challenge to hire more writers with disabilities, then identify yourself as an organization that's creating space and support for that and put in the work. And I promise you when you're forward facing with that when you're public about putting the work, the writers will seek you out as a safer space. And that's, I believe that's the work that needs to happen before you start bringing folks in to hire, because it will also reduce the harm that happens in the space and Johanna yes. Yeah, I mean I'd really, I want to plug our program that is coming up. We do an annual staged reading festival called occupy the stage. And within that. So I think one of the solutions is bulk. It's, it's, you move the needle by increasing the number of playwrights who identify as blank actors who identify as blank by just upping the sheer numbers right doing it at once so occupy the stage as one of our first, our attempts to solve that by having this year we're going to do 23 staged readings in this festival so 23 different plays. Last year we did 40 that was a little bit nuts on our internal bandwidth. So we're doing 23 this year. And we do ask player and a lot of like, in terms of running an organization, help identifying part is is the hardest part on all counts, and whether you're dealing with patrons or artists, or or whoever you're dealing with, like Rachel saying is like that work to create the identity, the place where people feel safe self identifying. It's, it's a very nuanced multi layered thing but like simple things like asking people for their access needs when they buy a ticket do you have any access needs we can support. In our occupy the stage submission form for directors and playwrights we do have an open space, we where we say we're asking you this question because we want to include as many intersectional voices as possible so we invite you to share how you self identify. And then when we create the program for occupy the stage what we're trying to do we identify what are in the program, what are black stories what are disabled stories what are parent stories, so that potential producers can come and look at our program and and find multiple writers who identify as disabled, multiple plays that have disability themes, multiple playwrights and multiple of color to choose from with multiple different types of stories multiple, not just we, we do, we have a rule called no one person team so with any project we do we try to balance not having just one of anything. So within the program, how, how many trans voices can we lift up how many different voices in community can we lift up together. And, and so like that's the thing that we offer. So how do theaters, like, come to occupy the, tell the theaters that you know tell the decision makers to come to occupy the stage, and get access to 23 plays they produce that are written by women or non binary or trans people that have as many, at least 50% of them are writers of color. And as many disabled and multi identifying people as possible. So, I think that's a solution, not. It's not the only one solution. I think that sounds like intentionality, go to the spaces that are safer these folks and learn from them. Don't just grab from them learn from them, how are they creating safe spaces for this art to happen. I also want to honor in the chat. Thank you to the participant who asked the question about having more writers with disabilities, who identifies as a player with a disability. Thank you for the adjustment. Thank you. So I offer the challenge to organizations, and also the folks. We get this in the caregiver conversation a lot, and the intersection of identifying yourself to an employer. I just want to relieve anyone of the burden of feeling that that obligation is yours to to speak up and like, you know, pre employment identify in a way for your employer to feel more prepared. As far as it supports you as the individual, the obligation is really on the organization to have the legal and ethical and compassionate work and education done on their part to be ready for you and not for you to risk discrimination and employment when you are in the process. And I just want to encourage everyone that way. And also recommend our pal handbook on the page because too many things do not have HR. And so the possibility for discrimination is very real. So I want to invite any questions about that into the space that will help support because as we're having this conversation, it's great to be able, there's going to be more employment possibilities, but this growth period that should last forever, because we should be growing forever of inviting more access needs into our spaces also requires compliance and an education on how to reduce harm, and treat people legally in terms of the hiring process, you know it's not just a group of friends making art, this is a professional situation and he's be treated that way. And in the chat. I also think direct reach out to the community through fellowships mentorships workshops yeah exactly like Joanna is talking about real concrete programs that people can take advantage of to find new diverse talent. Yeah, 100% and that's also a call to all of us to and you know not just by tickets to the theaters doing the glory projects of like we hired a writer with a disability for this play. It's fine but seek out the programs, you know like occupied the stage or seek out the theaters, you know that Amy you mentioned created great support for you like OSF, OSF and be via a patron there by those tickets if you really know an organization is investing in their budget culturally to create interconnected access for folks with disability and caregiver support. In the chat we have like to add that the size of the disabled population is only growing autism numbers longer lives, or is it recognized that are. I would say ahead of the curve yet and the curve is behind progress for sure. And in terms of the population, the disabled population growing. We're also. We're growing in our understanding on how to identify and folks with disabilities and create support for that, like Amy keeps saying, we're there. It's not that. Oh they exist once I learned about it, it's always it in the question is will we recognize it. The important the statistic, the working statistic is that 25% of people will become disabled at some point in their lives. So, in any room where four or more are gathered chances are there is a disabled person in that room, whether they self identify that way or not. And in terms of what Rachel is talking about the compassion meter. If we just enter our rooms in live in person or virtual with the understanding and ready to be compassionate around one in four is going to be disabled. I mean for women in my room is going to have experienced an abortion and or some form of sexual violence, like just just enter the room knowing that these that these numbers mean that that in your, if you just put it into the one and five or the just know that your room is full of people who need you to apply tenderness for one reason or another. And the question that I'll offer to both of you is. What are some budget line items or a space access that you would become more common. And we can take a pause for you to think about that as well if it's supportive. And Amy will start with you. Make sure that you separate separating the line items of disability access and caregiver access is that what you're referring to any and all if you could create a dream budget. What would be on your list. Well, Amy if you want me to go first while you're thinking I can rattle them off like it's Christmas morning. Well, first of all, here in the Raleigh triangle area, not everyone even uses ADA compliant venues in our area. It's not even totally a thing. So like just the bare minimum compliance spaces would be great. That's number one, but to my dream is to have productions that have that are fully integrated access productions. So like every production has integrated captioning has integrated experiences has integrated interpretation has integrated parent access points, whatever those may be that just the whole thing has been thought of from a multiplicity of viewpoints and needs and for, you know, for just everyone. So I like I mean I just I want my whole budget to be an access budget you know what I'm saying like I just want us all to be thinking about what that's like like what is it like to not just have one sensory friendly performance, but an entire experience that is relaxed enough for people with sensory sensitivities to always feel welcome in your space like what does that look like and what do you need to make it so. I want it all. Yes. Yes. It's, it's the difference you know between inclusion as a project and inclusion as practice. It sounds like inclusion as a project is like, you know, we start off with the pilot of K, we're going to intentionally start hiring and creating safer spaces for X but question we want to challenge people, especially with the summit is, how are you making, you know, what you're talking about integrating access. Practice for the rest of your organization's life, lifespan, learn on the small scale, but then apply it on the larger scale as a as a continued commitment for sure. And Amy at the application of the question can even be as a mother artists, you know, very individual, which is something we care very much to hear about from you in terms of what you what you seek. On the baseline item. I'm thinking about my dream budget, and it's different as a parent really the idea for what support we need. Some prefer just to leave children home. And other people want to bring their children to go see a play or for an audition or it varies. Really, my three year old she just doesn't want to go to auditions or rehearsal rooms at all.  So, but my baby the different story and parents themselves are different so Joanna and I, we, we have sons, who are the same age around the same age eight and nine, but they both have different needs. So, you know, it really varies parent to parent. My daughter is delve my my daughter is deaf and my son is hearing so they need different things so it's not going to be a one budget fits all sort of thing has the budget itself has to be flexible to accommodate for different situations that might come up for different families. I think that's beautiful. And also a great recommendation to make sure that your, your budget has enough give to support the people who enter your space, as opposed to the people having to be the ones to be flexible and give of their lives for the budget to take precedent. I thought of something else I want my dream budget. I want housekeeping budget, because my slick, I can do my theater work, and I can almost be an okay parent. But I can't also keep my house clean on top of all these like I like that is feels like an access need for my family lately is who's going to clean our house. That's huge. I know that like a lot of dispelling myths and rumors is, is me being like, Hey, behind this blue screen and underneath this zoom line right here. 100%. And how can we establish that as the professional standard. You know, that's what it, like that's what a professional's life looks like, and we can't expect. We can't expect folks to get everything done as though it, it was no problem at all individually and like peeling back that mask. We can't expect the stream at this point for the last 10 minutes for any private or more intimate conversation that may come up. And so I just want to thank everyone for joining us on the live stream and those of you in our space. Please feel free to stay for the next 10 minutes.