I feel the liftoff of the podcast star to be a rocker. Everyone and welcome to another episode of the punk rocker moon stomper podcast. As always, I am one of your intrepid hosts. I'm going to call myself intrepid from now on. Amy Shearer title, you may know me from vintage space, all the space things, but also my expressed love of beer on the internet. And joining me as always is my lovely co-host. I'm Jason McClellan and I also have a lovely love for beer. We love beer on this show and today is going to be a super beer filled episode. Yes, this is the perfect segue because joining us today. I'm super excited is Andrew Marshall who is a brewery supervisor at Stone, which is awesome because we're going to learn so much about beer. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us. Oh, my pleasure. It's an honor to be on the show. Oh, thanks. I don't know that you'd call it an honor per se, but I'll take that. All right. So before we get into anything else, we got to open beer because it's a, I love that we do this on a, on a like two o'clock in the afternoon, but it's always like, we need to get into the drinking. So we'll just pretend that it's later. So today I'm, I had to do this because it was fitting. I guess actually maybe before we do this, I should just say that I met Andrew because he ordered my book on my website and the order was late and he emailed me to ask where it was. And then we got to talking about things like beer and how you're supposed to drink IPAs sooner rather than later, which is something I've never heard. So we're going to talk to you about that, but I figured since this is expired, I'm going to drink the stone enjoy by IPA today, which I realize this bottle is massive and it's going to kill me. Jason, what are you drinking today? Well, I thought about picking up a stone brew for today's show, but I'm super excited to try beer. I just got in the mail and that is the secret weapon beer. It's a special brew that the band MXPX did a collaboration with Silver City Brewing in their hometown of Bremerton, Washington. And this is to commemorate the band's 25th anniversary. And they wanted to, when they got together with the brewery, they wanted a beer that would be good enough for, that it would still have a full flavor, but also be good and light bodied for sweaty punk rock shows. So it's a, it's an Amber Lager. I have not tried it yet and they don't have distribution. It's just really in Washington and Northern Idaho, I guess, but they partnered with a Seattle based interesting beer company that works with local distribution companies. So they will contact the local distribution company, mail the beer to that local company and that local company will then deliver it to your house. So that's how I have my 16 cans of secret weapon beer. So haven't had it yet. That's cool. It's a good story. And Andrew, what are you drinking today? All right, one of the benefits of working at a brewery is I get all kinds of our one offs and research batches. So this is a off brewed by one of our brewers that rotates from our Escanita location down to our brewery restaurant down at Liberty station in San Diego. So this is an Imperial Pilsner that had the Sauvignon Blanc juice and then reframed it on Champagne East. Interesting. Oh, wow. That's definitely one of the most experimental beers I've ever heard of. All right. Let's, speaking of, let's get to drinking. Ready? All right. Sort of gets this little sound bite of the thing. So all right, well, let's just start with start with the beer because this is going to be, this is going to be a driving force, obviously. So Andrew, why don't you just tell us a little bit about like your story? Like how did you end up as a brewery supervisor at Stone? Like how does, how do you just do that? So about 10 years ago, just prior to the Great Recession, myself and a couple I knew, I want to have this fun venture and start a little brewery. So we did that just before the recession and, you know, unfortunately my prior career of construction went up in a giant nuclear cloud and had this little brewery left. So I did that for a couple of years and, you know, we were relatively successful and after a few years it looked like my, you know, partner and I didn't really see eye to eye. So I left and sold them my shares. And a friend of mine who actually lived in my little small town was the brewmaster of Stone, Mitch Steele, my mentor. And so he said, hey man, you're sitting at home doing nothing. Why don't you, you know, come down and see if you can do something down here. So, you know, sort of down there is basically just brewing and eventually decided I didn't want, didn't want to work so much with my back and more with my head. And now I'm brewery supervisor. And cheers, by the way. Cheers. Cheers. Sorry, I just realized we should do that. So it really is just knowing the right people. The more, I feel like the more I, the older I get, the more it's just like nepotism and whatever the friend version of nepotism is. Sure. Is there a word for that? There has to be. There's a word for everything. That's true. We could just pretend it's German and just like smush words together to make a new one. Okay. So you sort of fell into this weird world of brewing, but you, so how much, what's the learning curve like when you just sort of walk into an existing brewery like this?   So it's interesting just to kind of see the difference of, of the perception versus the reality. And that, you know, even coming in with my, you know, with my limited experience at a small brewery, I can actually come in and, you know, do, do things and, and, you know, help us find better, help us estimate better and things like that. That's awesome. And I mean, it's interesting with breweries, even breweries that are, you know, very well known across the country and even the world. It's fascinating when you find out and look into the numbers and realize how small these companies actually are that are producing large volumes of beer. And stone is one of those. And I think stone is stones the currently the 10th largest in the States. Aren't they craft? Yeah. 10th largest craft. Yeah. And that's incredible.  About a thousand right now. That's incredible. Yeah. But that's a, yeah. But keep in mind that we just in the last year, we opened a brewery in Berlin, Germany as well as a brewery twice the size of our Escondido one in Richmond, Virginia. So that's kind of, you know, expanding pretty quickly, still expanding after 20 years, pretty quickly. Do people drink in Virginia? Apparently they do. I feel like my limited experience living out in that bit of the country, it's always like the weirdest liquor laws and you have to really hunt down good beer. Oh yeah. Just cause I don't actually know the difference. At what point are you distinguished as a craft brewery versus like, what's the alternative? I imagine like Budweiser would be like, Yeah. What do we call them? Sort of like an example of the other kind, but like where, where is the line and like how, what's the balance in the country? I have no idea. Okay. So the, we could talk about them as the industrial loggers or American industrial loggers. Yeah. Versus the craft. And that's all kind of, it, it, it's, it changes. You know, it's just in the time I've been in the, the decade I've been in the craft beer business, the definition of craft has, you know, changed and evolved. And it does, you know, every other year or so. There's a, there's a trade group called the brewers association. And they, they kind of have their own definition that, that they manipulate for, you know, whatever political reasons are to marketing reasons. So, you know, historically it's been craft beer is, is brewed with only the, you know, the ingredients to get bold flavor, exciting flavor, as opposed to, you know, basically something mass produced for the least common denominator. And that's really kind of evolving as we speak, you know, especially over the last couple of years, there's been a whole lot of craft brewers that started, you know, 15, 20 years ago that are now exiting by selling to the big industrial brewers.  Now they're not considered by the brewers association definition craft beer because they're owned by a big conglomerate. But, you know, their beer is still technically not really changing. Some of them are, some of them it's changing, but, but, you know, some of them are not. That's been interesting watching. And there's a interesting sort of connection there or similarity I think to like the music industry and punk rock in particular, because you've got, you know, these craft brewers that people all of a sudden turn on because they sell out because they get bought out or, you know, agreed to partner with one of the major labels. And AB has done that a lot in recent years scooping up a lot of the craft breweries. But I like that what they've done, and it's the same thing with a major record label is they've enhanced the distribution and, you know, exposure that these breweries get. And for the most part, at least looking from the outside, AB keeps their hands off, you know, and lets them continue operating as they have been. So they're still creating their product and doing what they do. But, you know, the big guys are noticing that that's good money. And, you know, if they can get their take of the money and own that in their portfolio while letting them still do what they do that has garnered the attention and grown their fan base, then good for them. So I don't have a problem with it. I know a lot of people have turned their backs on some fantastic craft breweries because they're now owned by the big guys. But I'm fine with that. And I congratulate those guys for their success. Yeah, and you know what? I'm on the same page. And this is, again, this is me and Marshall speaking. This is not a stone philosophy. We'll be very clear. You're not representing your work right now.  I agree. You know, I'm not necessarily one of the ones that turns my back when someone, you know, sells out to the man.  And good for them. You know, and if the beer doesn't change, great. And if the beer does change, you know, good for them. It had its place and time. They have their legacy and that's that. I hope they go live a happy life on their giant yachts and helicopters and whatever the lifestyle changes in campus. Yeah. All right. I have some beer questions for you. More beer questions. Okay. So speaking of IPAs, you have to drink them sooner rather than later. Why? Okay. So the key components that make an IPA great are number one, the assertive bitterness and number two, the hop flavor and aroma. All of those degrade over time. So the best the beer is ever going to be is actually in my finished beer tank at work before we package it. And from that point forward, it degrades. Every IPA in the world is like that. There's just no way around it. That's how the natural metabolism works within these beers. So, you know, after a week, can you really tell the big difference? Yeah, probably not. After two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, eight weeks. Okay. Now you're starting to pick up some changes, you know, and then once you get it out five or six months, it's distinctly different from what we intended it to be or whatever intended their IPA to be. And then, you know, after that, who knows what it turns into. So yeah, because the flavors that define the IPA are the hoppiness and the bitterness, which go away, that's that, you know, sooner is better than later. Right. So what does that have to do with, I mean, forgive me because I've never made beer in my life and I don't know exactly the chemistry that's going on, but is that because of chemistry that continues happening inside a bottle that it's like there's active, there's active cultures involved and stuff? Like is that because it's, there's still actively changing things or is it just that it doesn't, it can't persist by what kind of magic? Yeah. Okay. So it's not a biological thing. It's just a spontaneous degradation. I'm sure there's, there's, I'm sure there's a specific chemical process behind it that is, you know, more than I know, but my understanding is that it's just a spontaneous degradation of both the hot bitterness and the hot flavor aroma. Okay.  Oh, no. Day one is a sweet spot for drinking. Okay. Cause I also wonder like, how many people do you know or have you come across who have like a distinct, not distinctive distinguishing, I guess the word distinguishing enough palette to actually tell the difference between like, I know you, you as a brewer knows what it's meant to taste like, but how often do you find people who will drink a beer and be like, this doesn't taste good because it's old, but not really know about it versus people who are like, it's beer. Cause I didn't, I like, I've never heard of this and I have had, I have IPAs that have been sitting in my house probably for a couple of months that I just like haven't gotten to yet. And I'm suddenly drinking all of them very quickly. Good. Yeah. Well, you know, I have no idea what they're supposed to taste like. So I don't know, but I'm just, yeah. Sorry.  So it's, it's just, you know, you, you, how many people, you know, so I guess at the brewery and at the restaurant, there's, there's, you know, probably a fair amount, but we serve nothing but fresh beer there.  You know, you have all different levels of people that number one, that, you know, let me back everybody is capable of telling the difference. It's just a matter of educating yourself and how do you educate yourself and drink a lot of beer? Right. And so when you, when you have some beers that are better than others, eventually you'll make the connection that, oh, this is better because it was fresher. And it's, it's one of the things that the, you know, having a local brewery is, is fantastic. I mean here in Southern California, and I'm sure in Arizona as well, you know, there's, there's hundreds of now small local breweries that you can get the beer. I mean that was finished that week and served to you in a glass that week and it hasn't had to go through packaging. It hasn't had any chance to pick up oxygen or any of the, you know, the bad things that happen to it every time it's, you know, manipulated one way or another. And yeah, I think I couldn't tell your percentage, but I can tell you that just the more you drink, you'll, you'll kind of figure it out. Hooray for education. I like that kind of education. Yes. Drink more beer. Drink more. I'm supposed to drink more. And does this go for other kinds of beer? Cause I think the only time I've ever had a moment of like, this is better than what I'm used to. I, I do like Guinness and I had a pint at the top of the Guinness brewery when I was in Ireland. Like I'm old, but like more than a decade ago. And it was delicious. And like, I always liked the Guinness in Ireland cause I lived out there for a little over a month, just traveling around the Guinness there was way better than the Guinness is here. And I just couldn't figure out like, does it just not fly well? Like what is happening to this beer that it just doesn't taste as good in America or Canada where I'm from as it does in Ireland. Like I don't get it. Yeah. Well, there's, there's a couple of issues there that, that factor in on one of them is that Guinness has actually made all over the world. So, you know, when I was in brewing school, I was with the brewers of Guinness in Brazil. You know, so there's, there's, there, there may be some differences there, but one thing that factors in it's like, I think back to some of the best beer I've ever had in the world. One of them was at Trumur in I think Salisbury, Austria.  And the whole presentation, it just was, it just, you know, made you feel amazing.  And you see the Alps in the distance and you know, these big, beautiful windows. And then you taste the beer and, you know, it's one of the best beer drinking experiences I've ever had. Now, if I had that same beer a month later, maybe it's some, you know, grimy pub, it would it be the same? I don't know. You know, I have a really fond memory of that. And that's what really accentuated the enjoyment of that particular beer. So, you know, Guinness, you know, Guinness seems to age pretty well. You know, I'm, I'm definitely a fan of it. And, and because it doesn't have the, the hot flavor and aroma to that, that will, you know, degrade and change the beer. Yeah, it's a more stable beer than an IPA by far. I've never thought about the fact that massive, like international beers are brewed probably. I mean, I assume that for a beer like Guinness, the recipe is the same everywhere because it needs to be a standard product, but it's got to be slightly different depending on like your water quality. Exactly. Like the facility and everything else. Yeah, lots of variables. No. But I do believe in the states we get most of our, most of ours from their Dublin plant. And the only reason I know that is because I've been watching very closely waiting for their conversion process because they are working to make their beer that is bottled or brewed and bottled in their, in the Dublin plant to be vegan, changing their, their finishing product. So they've been working on that, changing over their processes in the Dublin plant because that's the beer that we get in the state. So. Okay. So I got a question for you. What makes a beer vegan or not vegan? It mostly has to deal with the, the filtering process, the, the isn't glass, the fish bladders that they use. Yeah, precisely. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So we don't use any of that. Excellent. Left stone. All right. So put you on the spot here. Yes. IPA question. Do you know your, your history of IPAs, how they came about? Wasn't it out of necessity or something? With shipping across the, across the ocean. So that's interesting. So my mentor, Mitch Steele, actually wrote a book three years ago, I think he published it.  There was kind of a myth floating around that the IPA was brewed to a higher alcohol and with more hops in it. So it was survived the trip and barrels by ship to India. Well, it, the cause and effect there isn't exactly, there was kind of more of a, I don't know, symbiotic is the right word. It just kind of happened naturally that, that they found these are the beers that worked better. So anyway, yeah, I feel like I'm doing a disservice, but not, you know, being able to give you all the details, but yeah, the book is just called IPA by Mitch Steele. And it is unbelievable. That's fantastic. I'll check that out. Yeah. Yeah. We'll put a link to that too in the description because I'm going to go find it because that sounds really interesting. When I had another IPA question for you that now I can't remember. So I'll ask you another question that I do remember because I also learned from you in a series of emails that you're supposed to drink it out of a glass, not out of a bottle. Yes. Which is also something I have never heard. Why? Okay. So why does no one know this is my other question?  It's education. Again, education. You just got to drink more beer and you'll figure it out.  You're taking it in a glass. So what, what's the benefit? Like what changes? Okay.  And even when you're tasting, 75 or 80% of what you're tasting is actually coming through the, the, your nose. So the combination of those two is what gives you the ability to really get what that beer has to offer.   Isn't that true with all styles of beer though? And that's why we have different types of glasses, glassware for different types of beer. So there's the whole thing with different types of glasses for different reasons. I really thought that was just like a pretension. No, no, no. There's function there. Like I'm not like, I'm not a massive wine drinker, but my parents are. So I grew up drinking a lot of wine, but you know, the white wine glasses that have like this weird shape and then the red, that's like a big thing to aerate it more and I'm just like, I don't, I cannot, if you give me the same wine in four shaped glasses, like it's just wine. So I've always thought that was just like pretension for pretension's sake, but please. So for wine, I'm a, I'm a big fan of wine as well. In fact, right here on my lot, I've got 18s infidel vines that I, that I am maybe not the best vine parent for, but they're coming along.  I saw it come out of the same bottle in these four different wine glasses, but I'm getting a completely different experience. Like I would, I would have bet money that this is a different wine if I hadn't seen it come out of the same bottle. So there, there is something there.  That's, that's to me, you know, beer doesn't get any better other than coming from a Cabernet Sauvignon glass. Interesting.  So they're typically served in glasses that are more of that style. Right. And the beer ones sometimes have the fluted top or the tuba. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I think once you get into a cup or a glass, you're 95% of the way there. And if you really want to get that extra 5%, yeah, you'll pick, you know, you'll pick a wine glass or a tuba stemware. And that does make a difference, a bit of difference. Does that have to be stemware?  Well, the same thing with wine. Why is wine stemware? So you can, you know, so your hand is not warming the, the, yeah. Yeah. You know, Amy, they do sell those. I guess that makes more sense. If you go to Total Wine or someplace, sometimes they've got fancy glasses like that that are plastic. So then you won't break it. I feel like, I feel like, I feel like there is no one who would ever advocate anything that's designed to taste a certain way.  Well, I found at Walmart a 32 ounce red solo cup that was insulated. And I've had a few, I've had a few beers out of that. Tastes just fine. Solid. Yeah. And, and a solo cup. That's a 32 ounce solo. That's pretty awesome. That's my own audio on you guys. Yeah. All right. I'm sorry. I'm, I'm sitting here looking through you. So I know I had other questions I wanted to ask you based on emails. I'm trying to remember what my other good beer question was because I really was curious. Oh, it's gone now. That's so frustrating. Do you have more on beer tastes? It will come to you. So I guess wanted to bring up hot con. Are you participating in that? Well, the company is, but I haven't been there. Yeah. I've never, I've never gone. It's been doing the fire. What five years now or four years? I think, I think it's four years. I think you're right. I think this is the fifth. Yeah. I think this upcoming one is a fifth year. Okay. And that's done in conjunction with Wil Wheaton, right? That started with the collaboration. Wil Wheaton. Yes. Yes. Thank you, Stewie. Can you enlighten those of us who don't know what hot con is? What it is? Okay. So in collaboration, I guess on the same timing as comic con down in San Diego, we brew a beer with the original collaboration was with Wil Wheaton. I can't remember his name. The guy who started FARC.com. And there's been a couple other people have been guests that have collaborated on the recipe. And we basically brew this ridiculously high alcohol stout. We barrel age a portion of it.  Once I moved from actually brewing the beer to supervising the brewing of the beer, I enjoyed it a lot more because it was, you know, so much, so much work to make this. So yeah. So along with the release of this beer, we have our own thing event down at Liberty Station to go inside with it with the comic con. I've heard it's a really good time. Yep. I've always wanted to make it and I haven't. I've had excuses for the past four years. So I'll see about this year. I'm really curious to check it out. I would see the pictures and hear people posting about it. It sounds like a good time. That definitely sounds like worth going to San Diego for. This one. How how hard is it to brew beer with things like pecans and all of these, like, not super common ingredients? Oh, it's awful. Awful. How do you even do that? Like, how does that again? I'm the one who's never brewed beer. But like, I mean, beer is sort of like what you've got like yeast and things that have like, how do you just like work a nut into beer?   Pretty much.  It's it's it's really awful. I mean, the end product. I mean, I love the end product. But, you know, some of these beers we do are just insane. It causes it causes or has the potential to cause so much trouble with our equipment, you know, we nobody nobody, you know, 10 years ago, nobody was building equipment for making beers like this.  They make their loggers that are, you know, low in alcohol and and no crazy ingredients. And now we're trying to adapt these this equipment to making these beers with, you know, all kinds of ridiculous ingredients in it. It's a challenge. It's a real challenge. It's fun, you know, especially when you're not lifting them up. They'll 50 pound bags of pecans up and downstairs all day. Yeah. But yeah, it's. Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. I was going to ask in all these like crazy things that you brew these like weird with weird ingredients and stuff.  Like you guys are professionals. I had an ex that used to brew beer and he would get really creative and I'm like, you're maybe not that good. And it was like unpalatable beer. And I can just imagine that with like a 50 pound bag of ingredients.  Right. So we have a couple of ways around that. Yes, we brews some beers that I've not been fond of for sure. But usually they don't make it up to the large scale brewing. So we have we have a small little five barrel, which is what 150 gallon. Pilot brewery actually at our facility in Escondido. We have a 10 barrel brewery, which is 300, 310 gallon brewery at our restaurant in Liberty Station down in San Diego. And those are basically where we get our, you know, all the creativity goes. So these guys can knock out batch after batch and tweak it here, tweak it there and until they come up with something that, you know, we really think that we should scale up. You know, a lot of stuff is just brewed to be served at the restaurant in Escondido or the restaurant in San Diego. Does that stuff make it easier sometimes? Oh, I'm sure stuff makes it to the airport. Yeah. So pretty much by the time by the time these guys have it nailed down and we scale up, it's actually my specific job to scale it up to our bigger brewery. We've got it figured out, you know, at the big brewery we've got enough experience where all the experimentation has been done on a smaller scale, which if they have to throw 300 gallons away, it's really not that big a deal. But you get to my side where we have to throw 4,500 gallons away. Yeah, it's not so good. I love that about craft brewing. It's all about experimentation. That's so much fun. Yes. Yes. I never, I never thought that you would just like do something small-scale to test it. I just assumed that you're all just magic wizards of beer. Well, yeah, we are. No, we're not. I just just run with the magic wizards of beer. I mean only if you want to but I think it'd be a good, you know, business card. Magic wizard of beer. Yeah. I mean, if you want to brew other, they have funny stuff like that. So, I don't know, Jason, do you have other beer questions? I'm good on beer questions for now. We can move away from beer temporarily if you want. Yeah, because I, I mean, I'm just, just in all the things that we've been chatting about for the last couple of weeks that we kept saying, well, let's save the story for when there's beer. You're currently on a venture that is making a very odd way to make money on the internet. Do you want to talk about weird ways to make money on the internet? Because you have experience in the gaming world, sort of. Okay.  I don't know if you want to bring it up. We don't have to do it but I was just curious. No, we could. So, yeah. So, about a year ago. I don't know anyone who does this and I'm very curious to know what a parent thinks about a child making money gaming on the internet. Yeah. It's, it's totally mind blowing to me that this can actually happen. So, I want to say about a year, year and a half ago, my kid who was 18 at the time, he applies for a job video editing for a YouTube channel in Australia and they hire him and I'm thinking this is impossible. You can't possibly have a career editing videos from your bedroom for a company in Australia. Sure enough, I looked over the contract and it was a bona fide contract and he got on with these guys editing videos. So, with the, I guess with the reputation gained from the voiceovers and the editing, he actually started his own YouTube channel and all he does is he plays Zelda or he plays Street Fighter or plays, you know, sometimes some old retro games and yeah and people like log on and they tip him. It's the craziest thing. I, yeah, I don't get it. I think people have been scratching their heads for years about that because that's been a thing and still the top grossing YouTuber is a person who plays video games. It's just, I don't get it, but it's a thing. It is a thing. Yeah, I was watching a thing the other night actually about gamers who make like a killing, like not just make money or make a living, like 16-year-old kids who go to conventions to play games on a stage, like the MMORPGs, whatever it is, so like online, like World of Warcraft or whatever. I don't know, I've literally never done this before but they just do that on stage and they're like an auditorium is watching them play games and they're being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to play video games for three days in public and I just cannot get my head around it. Esports is now big. Absolutely we are. Yeah, no, we want to watch other people doing things because we're too lazy to do them. I mean Esports has exploded in the past couple of years this year, you know, it's being televised more so you can watch on TV these tournaments of people playing Esports. With commentaries. With professional commentators. Yeah, with commentators. Full-blown production. Absolutely. I don't get it. Yeah, that's what also blows my mind is like the commentary that people are just like, oh no, I comment on live video games for a living. Like what? Like no, how is this a way to make a living? I mean there are weird ways to make a living out there. Granted. But that's one that I just like don't get.  It's like gaming beauty. I can't get it. I just can't get my head around the fact and it's like. Yeah. It's gotta be weird as a parent like is like, I mean if I can ask like is your son going to try to do this professionally? Like is this kind of a career path that he's looking into actually pursuing? I'm trying to keep him in school, you know, so he doesn't you know, drop out of school and really try to like put all his eggs in this basket. But you know, if you asked me a couple of years ago, I said this is nonsense. There's no way. And hey, you know, he's scratching out a few bucks. He's not making a killing but he's scratching out a few bucks. And you know, it's already making better than minimum wage, which is, you know, not too bad. Yeah. I, you know, I as long as he stays in school gets his degree. If this is how he wants to get there, then you know, at that point, you can make his decision. But yeah, I mean, I totally support him. Of course, I've sponsored most of his equipment and, you know, so I've been invested in it. Way to go dad. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. But you know, he seems to love it and actually his aspirations moving forward or one of his side aspirations as long as he's, you know, his progress towards the degree are he's actually becoming a pretty decent street fighter player. You know, all the other video games he plays, he's terrible and he admits it and jokes about it. But yeah, he as far as this tournament stuff, you know, he's been playing enough and he thinks that that's the he wants to go and you know, take a stab at awesome. Okay. So with these tournaments because I've never don't know this world at all, like is it that you enter a tournament and there's prize money the same way that like if you actually entered a training tournament of like actual physical prowess, there is prize money like. You bet. Yeah, exactly.  And I like I've known it like how what do people make doing this? What is the prize for like a tournament like millions of dollars? Seriously? Yeah, yeah. He says he's got a body that he spars with on a regular basis that's pulling down like 300 grand a year playing street fighter. I know people that actually fight for a living and they don't pull down that much. Yeah, yeah. It's completely insane. Not. I just I don't really understand how that industry won't sustain itself. It won't last forever, but for now it's a it's a legitimate thing. But I feel like it's been going for a number of years. It really has. No, I mean it's going way longer than I would have expected. So many mega companies in the online video world. It's crazy. I don't know. I've still only played like Super Mario World. It's about it. Kerbal. Oh, gosh. Yeah. This is perfect. They went to space. But I can't I haven't even played Kerbal's myself in almost a year. I don't have the patience to sit there and like figure out my mass to thrust ratios and all that junk. Oh, the math is the best part. Yeah. But when you're not a math person, it's not easy and it's just more frustrating than anything. I just want to build a rocket and just like no, I can't do it. Which is why I partner with Scott Manley to do it. Yeah. Because he's an epic engineering nerd and also an engineer and he's good at it and I can just tell him make it look more like this. Nope. More like that. Okay. Now make that fly. Here's the numbers. You make it work. It's great. He is great. Have you met Scott? I have not met him but I'm a fan. Okay. I'm a subscriber of his channel. In fact, that's how I first saw you was when you guys did the Von Braun rocket build. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's a great space historian. This is kind of awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That was the I've known Scott of like the same thing like online for ages and then we were both speakers at a conference few months ago and I've never met him in person and he's exactly like he seems on the internet.  We just like immediately we're like all right, well, we're going to be friends. We need to make this happen. So like, yeah, literally we just sit and so it's good stuff.  Speaking of weird ways to make a living. Yeah.  But this does lead me to my question which is what like space. What is your interest in space? Where did like where did that come from for you? Because this is we, you know, Jason, I always say that it's weird that we have all these like space and beer and punk in common, space thing and spades and we'll see what your taste in music is in a second here, but space. Yeah. All right. So, you know, when I was a I don't know, my early teens, I think maybe maybe earlier than that, I think fifth grade or so the right stuff came out and oh, my God, that was I mean, that was something special. That was something that was, I mean, never knew something like this. You know, of course, I grew up during the whole STS missions and, you know, I remember being in the classroom. I think it was in seventh grade and they wheeled in the TV and we saw the challenger come apart and, you know, so basically between the right stuff and just kind of growing up in the space shuttle era. That's kind of what really, you know, got me to really love and respect, you know, what was gone in space years later and it was actually not until that I really got a feeling of respect for the Apollo program. I remember being on a plane, I was flying from, I was flying from LA to Chicago and in one of the on-flight magazines there was like this quiz, like a weird IQ thing and one of the questions was, you know, what was the Apollo mission that, you know, was first to circle the moon. Well, I had no idea. So anyway, I actually kind of reverse engineered the thing and answered the whole thing. Then eight was the answer for the Apollo. It was like, okay, Apollo eight was the first one to circle the moon. Cool. Then I get to Chicago and I was actually in a beer school in Chicago for months and while I was doing the museums and what the heck, I go to the museum and there's Apollo eight, right there in front of me, like feet away. And so that kind of got me interested in like reading and I mean, these guys, these guys had, I mean, they put you out to the moon, circle around a few times and yeah, hopefully we calculate everything right. You guys make it back alive. So that just kind of just, that was the jaw-dropping moment of like how, how incredible these men were to, you know, to put themselves at that kind of risk. It's unfathomable to me, you know. So that was, that was the start of my enthusiasm with space. So just to plug someone else's book, you know, I saw it on your Instagram. Yeah. There you go. I, I haven't read it in like great detail, but if you haven't read Jeffrey Kluger, he's an amazing writer. I would strongly recommend it. I will put the link in the description for everyone else. But yeah, I'm super excited. I'm actually meeting him next week for like a museum night talking about Apollo eight. I can't wait. It's going to be weird, but it's going to be awesome. That's great. Yeah. No, I mean, that's what museum, actually, and it's like all his space memorabilia is just like in the wall in this restaurant. And apparently it's not a good restaurant, but it's full of space stuff. And I know Gemini 12 is in what the the museum where the Adler Planetarium is, whatever that museum. Oh, that's a Ruben H. Fleet. No, is that San Diego? I think that might be San Diego. Yeah. I can't remember the name of the museums out there. But yeah, I know whatever museum I'll bet had Apollo eight briefly. It has a Gemini 12, which was another of his spacecraft on permanent collection, which is kind of awesome. So have you like done pilgrimages? Yeah. Pilgrimages. There's the work. So like other museums or to see other things or. So the three that the three main museums that I've spent time are in in order of how much I love them. Of course, the, you know, the San Diego Space Museum is great. That's a good museum. Yeah. Chicago is wonderful, but really the Deutsches Museum in Munich is just unfathomably amazing. You know, you spend two weeks in there and never see the same exhibit twice. Yeah. It's some of some of like, for instance, in Chicago, you can see the history of the steam engine, right?  Then you go to the Deutsches Museum in Munich and holy moly, there is this enormous room with the actual, like, you know, 60 foot long, 40 foot tall steam engine turning in that room. It's it's crazy. Very cool. Now I want to know, I mean, this is the diversion, but how many countries have you been to? I assume under the auspices of learning how to make beer. Oh, let's see. So U.S. Germany, Czech Republic, Austria, France. And I, yeah, that's it under the auspices of beer. And the two of them bearers to have on my list are Belgium and the UK. Huh. That does seem like a missing. Yeah. That's pretty good to travel that much for the sake of beer. Yeah. It's not bad. Yeah. So it's interesting to discover, to discover Apollo as an adult too. And like still get a sense of like the insanity of going to the moon. Cause like what? Yeah. Yeah.   Right. Yeah. Where did you grow up? Oh, right here in Southern California. Okay. So yeah. Huh. So Minnesota, don't you know? And then when I was two, I've been here since I was two. Okay. So that's why you don't have anything like the similarly Canadian accent, which people every time people from Minnesota, they're like, Oh, are you from Minnesota? I'm like, maybe the accent is the same, although I don't hear it. Um, I didn't know, I mean, I didn't grow up here. So, yeah, wouldn't have thought that like the shuttle got as much press around the country, but like, yeah. Oh, we had Edwards here. We didn't get it. Yeah, I guess Edwards is here. Yeah. Jason, did you have a lot of like public, like press coverage and like school coverage of shuttle growing up in Arizona? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Shuttle was a big deal. No. Well, that's the end of that story. I, yeah, I'm not a shuttle fan anyway, so you didn't miss anything, apparently, but, I liked it, but I was always leave your comments below.  Don't dislike the shuttle.  Oh, yeah. Like the moon is really insane. It's really funny. I always had this conversation with like Apollo flight directors and astronauts and I'm like, like going to the moon was kind of like the most insane, ridiculous thing. Like, what were you guys thinking? Like, I don't know. Like they even in retrospect, they're like, yeah, it was actually insane that we did that. Which is kind of great. It's kind of great when you have all the old guys sitting around like always a beer in hand, which is my favorite thing because those guys are always have a beer and they're just like reminiscing about how insane it was that they did that. Just like, awesome. This is awesome. So the other thing that we talk about on this podcast is music. So for me, it's probably easier to describe the types of music that I don't like than it is to describe the music I do like. You think that happens for a lot of people? Yeah. I can, you know, pretty much anything but a country in Western is like, you know, country in Western and pop, which I guess country in Western pretty much is pop now, but anything outside of that, I can really dig. And I know this is a scott and punk show. So the, my scott background was Madness One Step Beyond. Somebody gave me a tape and the two songs on it that really hit with me were Madness One Step Beyond and it was the specials version of a message to you, Rudy. And, yeah, so when I was a kid and did, you know, band and elementary school, I picked up the trombone and then, you know, that wasn't really my thing so I picked up the baritone sacks. So now I get these bands and these bands have the big horn sections going and they rock and, you know, just, you know, awesome. So that was the, that was, I was into it among, you know, many, many, many other things, but, you know, that Madness, rare occasions when a band does bust out the baritone. It's pretty awesome. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, more recently, kind of just a cool run-ins with Scott people. So my small little brewery that, you know, I was running it here in Temecula, we had a venue called The Vault just down the road and unfortunately it's closed down and because my brewery was the local bar at least relative to this venue, we were, we had a lot of beers and stop-up after the show.  And, yeah, I just, you know, we're supposed to close my city, you know, by decree of the city by 9 p.m. but, you know, when those guys are in there, no, beers are flowing, it's on me and we're closing when people leave. That's awesome. So, you know, we have extra police presence there. So, it's just kind of one of the things. Did you ever get in trouble for keeping the, keeping the bar open late for bands? No, no, absolutely not. I did get, well, we had cops like tapping at the window sometimes when I had the door locked and I'd, you know, tap on it back and give them the thumbs up and hold up the door and, you know, they'd be on their way. That's, that's the nicest I've ever heard of police being, yeah.   And of course, my staff mocked me, you know, when real big fish came in before their show, I played their song, Beer For Them Over our stereo system. They're like, you dork. It's like, yeah, you're right. I love it. Yep. Yep. And Temecula, by the way, about an hour and 15 minutes southeast of LA Pasadena. Okay. Okay. I, yeah. I feel like if I've never heard of Temecula living out here for three years, I'm sure it's a little bit dentury. Yeah. Yeah. I've never, I've never heard of it before. Fun times? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what is the relationship between Stone and Ska Brewing, speaking of Ska and beer? Yeah. Okay. So Ska, Durango, Colorado, we're there Southern California distributor. So Stone, we have the brewery and we also have the distribution side, which thankfully for the distribution side, that's, that was our money maker for 15 years in business. So yeah. And Ska Brewing is one of the brands that, that we distribute all throughout San Diego, LA, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino counties. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. It seems to be a beer that I can never find in stores. Mm hmm. I never know how to get my hands on it. It's, and like people, I just like meet people who are like, oh yes, I just know somebody that gives like it's okay, that makes more sense. Yeah. You know, with the 150 breweries in Southern California that have their own followings, it's tough to be an outsider and kind of penetrate into that business, especially if you're the size of Ska Brewing, you know, they have great beer and a great reputation, but they're competing with 150 local breweries. Yeah. There are 150 local craft breweries in Southern California. I guess that's at least probably closer to 200. I think we have 130 just in San Diego County. What you need to do in November, you need to go to drink more, apparently. The San Diego, what is it? The San Diego Beer Week or whatever it's called, the big beer thing in November, right? San Diego has a big beer festival. We do have one for a week and I don't know what month, but yeah, I just saw a billboard for it in Phoenix. So, so, but yeah, San Diego has tons of beer fast, but if you go to one of those, Amy, you'll just kind of get an idea of how many, and that's San Diego.  Yeah, L.A. has been screaming itself, you know. Yeah, yeah, I'm like aware of a few local, local small breweries near me, but not that many. And honestly, one of my favorites that were like, we have a taphouse about a mile from my house, which is great, like a stone taphouse. That's, yeah, but I don't, I don't know. I'm not educated enough. Apparently, I need to drink more. This is like my education. I need to be drinking more. So one of L.A.'s breweries is, it's Golden Road, right? Golden Road is in L.A. I think so. Yep, yep. And I just started seeing those in my grocery store here in Phoenix, some of Golden Road stuff. So. Right. So Golden Road is one of the ones that just sold out to, I can't remember if it was in Bev, but they just sold out to one of the big breweries or big breweries. So that's, so they have great distribution now. Yeah, it's something you mentioned earlier talking about because of your, your places where you do your experimentation. Ten Barrel, name of the brewery, one of my favorite breweries from the Northwest. Ten Barrel Brewing. Yep. They're out of Oregon, but I found them in Boise, Idaho, and they are expanding like crazy because they're owned by AB now. And they're opening a location in San Diego, which they've been fighting for the past couple of years, but apparently that's what they're getting into San Diego too, but Ten Barrel Brewing, like those guys. Yeah, me too. I actually met them, they were visiting, maybe a couple of years ago, and I got to meet them and yeah, cool, cool. They do a lot of fun experimentation. I fell in love with them right away, and they do a lot of interesting sours and stuff. So, of course that, that sells me. So. Oh yeah. And Scott Brewing just, you know, I follow them these, such a tease. Yeah. To make the, make a beer trip up to Durango, yeah. To say Boulder? Durango, Durango. Yeah, Durango, and actually, Durango has a, it has a handful. There's, I think, it's been a few years since I was there, but it was good. Four, maybe five breweries there, every one of which was worth visiting. Right. That is a beer telling for sure. Yeah. They've got a little pocket. They've got a lot of stuff going on out there. And I was like, I've never heard of Durango. How was it like a hub of like fun people in because it's in Colorado. If it's in Colorado, it probably is a hub of beer. Yeah. I remember the beer question. I was going to ask you like an hour ago. All right. As Jason mentioned, sours, and then I remember that you're vegan. The fish bladder thing. Yes. Okay. So, this is a two part question. Okay. So, what, like how, like where in the process does this come in and like what is it and B, do you know?   This is one of those things I think about a lot. Like drinking cow.  So, like, can you shed any light on this? I feel like I only ever think about this question when we're recording this podcast and I never go and like just Google it myself. Um, go on. All right. So, there's basically two parts in the brewing process where we, people can use what's called findings. Findings have a, like a slightly positive charge on the, on the molecule and it basically causes haze and, you know, including yeast cells and basically clump them together and gets them to drop out of the solution. So, instead of having to filter it to, like, you know, whether it be a paper cartridge media or diatomaceous earth media, you actually get it just fall to the bottom of the tank by putting this, this fish bladder stuff in there.  But, I don't know. Yeah. So, so it said it's charged, it's, there's charged molecules on this, like, it's like, is it, is it like physical, like, physical pieces of fish bladder or is it like an enzyme extracted from it? What is it? Yeah, in a, in a, most of the times it comes in like this, this granulated powder. Okay. Other times you can it, it basically goes and collects stuff into chunks and gravity drops it to the bottom of the tank over a course of the day or so. Okay. So, if you're making a vegan beer, how do you, I mean, I don't know if you can answer this one, but how do you skip this process of like taking out the bad things you want to get rid of if you're not using a fish bladder? Right. Okay. So, I'm going to say that it's a fish bladder that's made from seaweed or something like that. So, we use this on the hot side in the boil side and then on the cold side, once we, once it leaves the brew house gets cooled down, pitch the yeast and then chill it down before filtration. Our filtration is two-stage. We use a centrifuge that we run our beer through and then we filter all of the chunks float to the outside and get ejected. All of the beer goes to the center and gets passed on through to the filter. Then the filter, we just use a, I guess, a synthetic diatomaceous inert, diatomaceous earth-like thing. It's like diatomaceous earth, but not toxic, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And then that's how we clear up our beer. Okay. So, there are there are definitely vegan alternatives to the anything that's out there that has to do with gelatin, you know, horse hooves and ice glass. Wait, where do horse hooves come into this? Is this another thing that used to clarify beer? Yeah, gelatin. Yeah. Ew. Why? Yeah. Like, is it? Same reason. It just, it works. Somebody figured it out back. Yeah. And then the water room was like, let's throw that in beer because it makes sense. Again, there's all about experimentation, so I guess it always has been. Apparently. Apparently. But I feel like, no, we were definitely fishing before we started making beer, but like, beer's been around for a long time in places where I feel like you wouldn't necessarily have access to fish, like Egypt, like ancient Egypt. I'm going to guess that the six or seven years and not going back to like the six or seven or eight thousand year history of beer. Right. Yeah. Again, just my guess, but you know, I think prior to that, people really didn't care so much about having clear clear. Yeah. Yeah. I took a, I took a class in, I think third or fourth year undergrad of the history of science and beer. And I was super excited to learn about like how the chemistry and like the understanding of the, like a social element that ended up like, like funding a lot of science. Like apparently Max Planck's lab in, oh my God, I'm not going to remember where he's from, somewhere in Germany. But apparently all of like his research was funded by Carl's Beer. Yes. Yeah. All of these were things and like it used to be the, the case that like travelers and like people touring through countries trying to like spread science. All the philosophy was done in coffee house. The science was done in a coffee shop and you'd sit around and like beer became the social element that people would disseminate science through towns when they were sort of giving lectures. And I was like, that was in itself a very, very interesting. Makes sense to me. But I never like always frustrated and not in the history of how understanding of beer making came about.  Yeah. Have you, did you pick up history of brewing in all of your like worldly beer studies? Um, you know, I think, I think there's more or less just one common theory on how it all came about. You know, it's pretty well documented that it was used for currency, you know, back in Egypt days and, and, but yeah, I mean, the theory, the theory is just that somebody left grain out in the rain and it sprouted and then they, you know, cooked with it or they did with it and they got a little bit of like, oh, let's do this again. And that, that, that you just kind of developed through the ages to, you know, I am now going to call it being drunk. I guess what it is today. Yeah. Yeah. Stay tuned for it. Beer check. Jason, I feel like you're out of beer. Don't tell anybody. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. How are you? Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Beer is gone. Oh yeah, celebrities is the other thing that we had, Andrew, you and I had talked about. And I don't know, maybe, maybe all this needs to be like, off the records that we don't have to talk about on the show. But, you guys, Again, we'll, we'll put some things out there again. You are not representing zone. You are here as a private citizen hanging out drinking a beer. So celebrities.  How do you come across these kinds of people and what kind of weird stories do you have? All right, so a couple of things. So way back in my previous life of doing contracting, I had a four-day commute to Long Beach and a one-day commute to Las Vegas. So instead of driving that or flying commercial, got my pilot's license and got the company that I was doing most of my consulting for to put in the lion's share of a fence for an airplane. So in my little airplane. Pilot's license, too, that's so cool. Got it, like. Oh, that's rad. It's here somewhere, anyway. Yeah, so my commute was five days a week, flying my own, you know, little company paid for an airplane to either Long Beach or Las Vegas. So we share the same, the little prop planes share the same criminals as the private jets. So there's times that we'd run into them. But the funniest one, so I have this thing where I like to call celebrities by their, by a different name, confuse them with someone else, which I'm sure they're not used to, and see if I can get them to correct me. So the most, I guess the most famous celebrity would be Harrison Ford, where he flew into my local airport here in Temecula because he was lost. He had this gorgeous, I don't wanna say, you know, it's gotta be mid-60s to Halvin Beaver, which is a Canadian, just a, I mean, a masterpiece of a Canadian airplane. So he flies in this gorgeous airplane, comes into the pilot shop, it's called FOB, but our FBO, comes in and he basically asks for directions to get to his friend's house in Lake Riverside. And we're like, oh, hey, what's up, Georgia Lucas? GPS broken the Millennium Falcon? And he just kind of turned and looked at me and gave me this awful, just this scowl of disgust and didn't say a word. And then just kind of turned back to the people who it was talking to. So that was that. And then other times, or okay, so Miss December 1969 was a woman named Cynthia Myers. I think she was one of the ones that was in the EVA booklets that you've talked about. Definitely heard her name. So for those of you listening who aren't familiar with this story, the backup crew in Apollo 12 stuck pinups in the risk checklist for the Apollo 12 Prime crew. So when they were on the moon, they like opened their things. It was like, survey her hills and valleys.  But yeah, that name is familiar. And I, cause I hunted down those Playboy magazines to find the original images ages ago. So yeah, okay. Right, so she was a friend. Yeah, so she was a friend of a friend.  So as a friend of a friend, I got to be your plus one a couple of times going into the Playboy Mansion for like Halloween parties and you know, and stuff like that. And that was my thing. That was the Playboy Mansion like. Yeah. So, you know, I was just divorced at the time. This was like 10 years ago. I was just divorced at the time. So why not hang out with a former player that's 20 years older than me? Sounds like fun. That does sound fun. Yeah, so going in there and that was my thing is kind of going around and it's like, you know, hey, call Corey Feldman, Corey Hame and see if he corrects me. Or what was the other one? Oh, Luke Corey. Luke Wilson. Oh, Owen Wilson. I loved you and dah, dah, dah, dah. He's like, he's the one that corrected me. He's like, it's Luke. That's hilarious. Like, oh dude, Owen Wilson. I loved you in this. It's like, it's Luke. So anyway, just stuff like that. Good fun. That's, that's, that's so, how do you know Miss Nine, Miss whatever 1969? How, like, how was she a friend of a friend that you ended up at the Playboy Mansion? It was just, it was just a random thing. You know, these, these, these guys that I knew in business, you know, they, they, they knew a couple of these, these, these girls that were former, they're actually their dad, their dad used to hang out with them back in the, in the 60s and 70s. And so they kept the contact up until the 2000s. And, you know, yeah, we got to hang out a few times. Yeah, it was wild. Yeah. I love that Harrison Ford scowled at you. And then he ignored you. That's great. Just pure disgust. It was perfect. Yeah. Cause people always, whenever I like, you know, meant to help people that I haven't seen in a while like, Oh yeah, I'm in LA. Like, Oh my God, do you want to see celebrities? I'm like, I, I saw Canary's drunk once. And like, I, I, what do I care? Like there's not a, there's like two celebrities I would ever actually want to meet. Namely, mainly just Tom Hanks. Like, and I want to be like, Hey, can we talk about space? Like I just want to hear it out about a follow with Tom Hanks. Um, I, cause I never know what I would do to a celebrity, but I love the idea of just calling them by the wrong name to see what happens. Cause like, what do you say to a celebrity? Yeah, I don't know. I don't like, what are you going to say? Like, I liked you in a movie as did the rest of the world. Yeah. Or, or you can just address them by their character in that movie. That happens a lot. I see that happens so often at conventions and stuff. People are calling them and trying to get their attention. Or they're like right there with them getting a photo and they're calling them by a character name. Yeah. I would, I actually had this conversation yesterday with a friend of mine that like at those insane like comic conventions, I've only been to one sci-fi convention and I was like the real science versus all the fake science.  And, and it was like, you know, typical Simpson style, like an episode two F07 when you did this, like it's this weird thing where people can't separate the actor from the character. And it's gotta be so weird to be a celebrity in that situation to be like, wow, you don't know that I'm not the person on TV. Like you don't have a sense of reality. That's gotta be so weird. The easiest time I as a fan had separating celebrity from real life was when I randomly saw Marky Ramone at New York Comic Con. And he was like sitting at a booth and I was like, I'm gonna go get, I don't do this, but I'm gonna go get a photo with Marky Ramone because it's Marky Ramone. He was sitting at this booth and it seemed really sad because he was selling pasta sauce with his face on it. I have no idea why, but there was Marky Ramone selling Marky Ramone pasta sauce. Yeah. I feel like I saw a norm from Cheers at a, at Monster Palooza in Pasadena. It's like it's a Pasadena convention center which is down the street for me. And I went to go meet in front of mine. And there's all these like, I think there was someone else from like 90210 was there, but like Norm from Cheers was just sitting alone at a table with his picture behind him. No one's talking to him. And I was just like, what are you, what is happening right now that you're sitting alone at the table? Like you were, you were epic in the 80s I guess, but like that's gotta be so weird when you're at that stage of your career. He's set by himself on TV, so he's good at it. Trying to think of the most awkward celebrity encounter I had. And it might have been at a UFO conference, but I was. That sounds awkward. Well, I'm used to it, but I was at a table, a vendor table. And I think this was in, it was in California somewhere. I'm not remembering where. It was Orange County. And Thomas Jane was wandering around the vendor hall and stopped at our table. Thomas Jane was in The Punisher. He was in the HBO series, Hung. He was in that movie Deep Lucy about like genetically engineered sharks. Yeah, why do you say that? But he was wandering around and stopped and like was a fan of a podcast that I was doing at the time. So he started talking about UFOs with me and I was like, okay, this is cool. And I didn't really know, I wasn't that familiar with him at the time. I knew like one of his movies, but I was like, okay, Thomas Jane. Then when he walked away, I noticed that he wasn't wearing shoes. He was just wandering around a conference barefoot. So, and apparently he does that. He's known for that. You. That is super weird. And at any kind of comic convention, I feel like that's super gross and like you're gonna get a foot-borne disease. I don't know what disease, but like some foot-borne disease. No, conferences are disgusting. So that really. Either get one or spread one. Yeah, exactly. So, no, he's awesome. And I liked him and it was fun hanging out with him. But yeah, the whole no shoes thing, like I couldn't get on board with that. The one like sci-fi comic convention I went to, I was told, if you wanna go in the pool, go in the first day because afterwards, it just becomes geek soup. I was like, oh, oh. It's like literally all these people who just don't shower more than like once every two weeks. Well, it's pretty much like being at Comic-Con or anything because you're going through and like so many people in a tight space and not enough air conditioning.  All of their stink starts sticking to you because there's so many people. Yeah, no, it's not good. It's not good. Okay, how's that any different than any public pool in Vegas? I don't really go into a lot of public pools in Vegas. I sit by the side of the pool. I sit by the side of the pool where I can have a drink. Yeah, I sit by the side of the pool, drink and like maybe go in waist deep when it gets really hot. But I went to, so Andrew, I asked you about this and you haven't been, which I don't know why I just assumed that you would have gone at some point, but punk rock bowling, which is like the big punk festival bowling tournament in Vegas every year. I think this year is the 19th year. It's awesome. It's totally rad. I would recommend looking into it in the future.  It was amazing except that it was at the Plaza, which I think was under construction.  There's like, there's no bar, there's no seats. And it was so, it's next weekend.   It's just so gross. I was like, I think, I think I'm done. But yeah, anytime I like, the idea of a Vegas pool party grosses me out so much. I'm with you. To quote South Park, yeah, they tested the pH. It was all P and no H. Yes, I love that. Yeah, that episode of South Park when it just becomes P and it just explodes everywhere. That is not on board. Yeah, although speaking of South Park and making your living playing games on the internet, I do love the World of Warcraft episode. Oh my God, that's the end of the world. The World of Warcraft. Yeah. I've got friends who started playing World of Warcraft because they were like, if South Park is making a big deal about this game, I should probably start playing it. Wow. Which I thought was pretty epic. Just a brilliant episode too. It was so good. And whenever I think of internet trolls, it's just that guy in his basement with like the risk guard just typing like this. So in my head, every troll that I have on the internet is that guy. My, I feel like I should, I feel like Andrew, you'll appreciate this. My most awkward celebrity meeting ever was Jim Lovell. Really? Yes. Jim Lovell, for those of you listening, flash watching Commander of Apollo 13, real Tom Hanks as I describe him all the time. So I have met a lot of astronauts. You've seen my videos. The wall behind me is all astronaut autographs. And I've got an albine beside me and I've got sign books and stuff and like jaw perk. I know astronauts. It's weird and awesome. Al Warden wished me happy birthday this year. But I met Jim Lovell. And it was at a, it was the 45th Anniversary Apollo 13 event at the San Diego Air and Space Museum. And I was there as media. I know the education director there. So I always get to go to these events. And it was the sort of pre-dinner media drinks. And I've always wanted to ask him, you know, 45 years on, if you can describe the emotional difference of seeing the far side of the moon on the last path in Apollo 8, wondering whether you'd ever be there again versus seeing the far side on the free return trajectory on Apollo 13. Cause like those must have been two completely different head spaces, obviously, but it's still the far side of the moon. Like, and cause like I've read both transcripts of those missions and they're still just like amazed at what they're seeing. And I wanted to ask him like, you know, in retrospect, what do you feel? So he looks at me and, you know, I'm a girl in a dress with a press pass. And he says, well, you know, we had a bit of a problem on Apollo 13. And he sort of starts like mansplaining to me what Apollo 13 was. And I just want to be like, excuse me. I want to be like, sorry, Captain Lovell. I do know the serial number and the entire operational history of that oxygen tank. So I let him finish. And yeah, it was, it was sort of like that most awkward moment of just like, I don't even, like I've got five minutes of this man and this is what's happening right now. And it just, it was so uncomfortable that I had to be like, uh-huh, uh-huh. And then I immediately was like, okay, it's a lovely search tax. Tell me about the seaworthiness test in 1967, which was a test for three astronauts, one of which was Lovell, went in stable two, which is like the apex down upside down of all the spacecraft, inflate the airbags and then right and then stay in the ocean or in the Gulf of Mexico for two days to see if it would leak. Cause they had to make sure that like, if you land anywhere in the world, it'll take at most two days for a recovery crew to get to you guys. We need to make sure you can live for two days. So we're going to stick you in five foot swells in the Gulf of Mexico for two days and you can't come out. The worst thing ever.  Oh my God, you get it. And he's like, how do you know about that? I'm like, I read the report. This is what I do for a living. He's like, I was a sailor.  But it was the most awkward moment of meeting a celebrity. Cause like for me, I don't care about celebrities. Again, Tom Hanks is the exception.  It was so weird. But yeah, that was it. That's my good, like awkward celebrity moment. I touched Tim Armstrong's back once. That was a good one too. You were in the crowd and I was like, Tim, Tim, when I touched his back and he's my size, then he walked away. And I was like, oh, so yeah. I didn't have any other good, awesome stories. I haven't met a handful of fans. And it's always kind of weird cause I'm just like standing there. I'm like, I don't know what to say to you. Did you ever have that when you're like, when you have a band come into your bar, you're like, I don't, I don't know. No, I had a ringer. I had one of my employees, one of my brewers was in a touring band. I, who knows what name it was, but they toured some of the US and in Europe. So I just let this guy talk. I drank beer and listened and you know, smiled and nodded and it was all good. So they, they can carry on the conversation. It's perfect. Yeah. So we've had Bucket from the toasters on the show before. And one of my most awkward celebrity or musician encounters was with Bucket. The first time I saw the toasters because this was back before I was doing concert production before I had a concert venue. So this was really toward the beginning of my musical experiences. And I went to see the toasters and I thought, okay, I'm going to go talk to the guy at the merch table. So I went to the merch table and was asking the guy at the merch table, like if the toasters had a new album coming out and like, you know, talking about the toasters, like when are they going on? When do they have their new album coming out? The guy at the table of course was Bucket because he's always at their merch table. But I didn't know. So I'm talking to him and I clearly don't know who he is. Then when I saw them take the stage, I was kind of mortified and I left before they got off. So. Oh yeah. And he probably doesn't know that story but we're good friends now and I hope he doesn't listen to this. Cause that's a little uncomfortable. I love you, Bucket. Well, they might know it now. Yeah, I feel like that's always weird cause I'm really good at not knowing the names of people in bands. So like, like I met the, I don't even know his name but the, and I love this band. The lead singer from less than Jake. I met him in passing as I got to a venue that a friend of mine was putting the show on and he's just like, hey, meet Amy. And I was like, hey, and I just didn't, I was like, you look kind of familiar but I'm visiting friends. So I'm not going to talk to you. And it's just like, oh, yeah. Yeah. I've had those moments a lot where I'm like, Oh, is that who that was? Yeah. When you have like well-connected friends and you're just like, I'm not paying attention to what's happening right now. Oh, wait, that was the guitarist from Bad Religion? And for a lot of these bands that we're talking about the bands that we like, you know, they've changed a lot of members over the years. So, so it's forgivable to not know everybody in the band. Yeah. When a band's been around for 25 years but most of the members are 19. You're just like, wait, how does this work? How does this network? Yeah, there's a lot of that going around. Which, you know, Nostalgia Tours. Yay, my generation loves it. I guess I'll separate myself, generation. But yeah, Nostalgia Tours. That's a weird thing that I still, yeah. So Jason and I were recently in Vegas. We'd met up and he brought his lovely wife and there was a crowd of people one night as we were walking out to the hotel to go to a bar and some guy was like, oh, it's the Backstreet Boys. I could not believe that the Backstreet Boys can draw, I don't know how many, like I wanna see hundreds of girls in like sparkly tight dresses that looks like they were on bachelor parties. So they're like, I would maybe see the Backstreet Boys if you gave me free tickets and free beer because it would be like a really funny Nostalgia Tours to do, even though I never got into the Backstreet Boys. These people were waiting for hours in a disgusting line. It was just mobs and mobs of people who were paying hundreds of dollars to see the show. And they were beside themselves. They were so excited and I loved, I loved that you could see the girl getting out like dressed in her, you know, heels and her little dress and then her boyfriend and like flip-flops of shorts, looking miserable, trailing behind her is like, yeah, amazing. Let's not go see the Backstreet Boys. It's so weird, but yeah, the whole Nostalgia thing, which is like you're seeing all these bands come out and do all these tours that like you have, you know, their albums are 20 years old and the band is completely different aside from the singer but they're still making a living off it. A friend of mine is actually the bassist for the Atari's. Remember the Atari's from like way back in the day? Apparently they're still actively touring Europe. I had no idea. I haven't, when I drive past Sandimas, I think of them because Sandimas has full football rules, but yeah. That's right, that's right. Right, right, you never think of the Atari's except for that one, but like apparently the Nostalgia in Europe is huge for these guys and like it's such a weird, it's such a weird thing to think to you that like they're not big enough that they're sequester, that they're probably wandering around bars, like eating bands and having their own offer. With like these pockets in the world where some music from here is like incredibly popular there. So there are a lot of bands who tour more in Europe than they do in the States. And the Mad Catties is one of those bands. They're huge in Europe and they're almost always in Europe and you're just happy when they're finally back in the States because maybe you can catch them, but yeah, they've always been like that, had a huge following in Europe and two are constantly there. Yep. Just, I don't know. Music in Street now is weird. I mean, we've talked about this on the show on other episodes, but like, yeah, it's different and weird. And I think Bucket was the one who kind of went into like streaming music, destroying bands. Yeah. No one wants to see a band anymore. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I know I can speak personally towards that, you know, do I want to dig through the CDs to see what I'm in the mood for or do I just want to put on Pandora or Spotify and just kind of, you know, put it in the background and go with it? Yeah, you're right. My enthusiasm and my passion for following any single band is kind of dead because I've got a DJ, you know, I can just push a button and let the DJ play in whatever background. When was the last time you saw live music? It was probably, oh no, this was maybe two years ago. I saw Cool and the Gang opening for Van Halen at Staples and, you know, I was never a Cool and the Gang fan. I was a Van Halen fan and, you know, to see, you know, David Lee Roth back up, you know, in front was kind of cool.  That's still impressive.  And then, you know, Van Halen, I always want to see, you know, Eddie play Eruption Live, which was, you know, was just kind of cool, but yeah. So maybe, you know, two years ago, that's it, but again, a big venue, big, you know, band, obviously, the nostalgia stuff. Yeah. Yeah.  That's definitely one of the best things about LA is that everyone seems to come through here and it's not that far to get to see them, but yeah, it's definitely... But see, we talk about, we talk about younger people being lazy, but I think that's a thing with getting older and why you move away from live music is because it's, you know, it takes more effort to go to a show and see people and it's late and... Thank you. That's exactly right. For sure. Yeah. Sitting there at a concert and having all the Bachelorette party woo girls about you, woo, woo! I'm here for the band, all right? I want to hear your woos. Yeah. Thankfully, none of the bands I've seen in ever draw Bachelorette crowd. No, but they draw the bro crowd and you get the same thing.  And even less, I saw Pennywise a few months ago and I always, I forget that Pennywise draws like a massive bro crowd. They do. And it was so weird, it was like, I was not expecting to see guys doing lines of Jagger bombs. I'm like, what is happening right now? Come on! Why is a Jagger bomb a thing anyways? Also, ew. But yeah. All of my purses just have earplugs in the little side pockets because I just take rotating cast of purses to shows and I always have earplugs because I'm old now and I have to wear earplugs.  They're amazing. I do go to a lot and so I just have baggies of earplugs in every purse I own so that I always have ear protection. That's fantastic, I love it. Bad. But I love when I'm not the oldest person in the moth fit then I don't feel so bad. I'm sure that's pretty rare, but not saying that you're old, Amy, but... Well, it depends on the, I mean, if you're going to see a band like that in religion, like their fans are gonna be on the older side because they're on the older side. All my fans are old. I do enjoy that. I do enjoy going to those shows and seeing 50-year-olds in the pit. It's kind of fun. I just smile. I love it. But I love that it's like it's a mix of 50-year-olds and then like, you know, late 30s, early 40s, people with their kids. Oh, I love that. Like my favorite. I love the generational thing.  Dude, that was one of the best things for me when I had a venue was that it was an all-ages venue and we catered to that younger crowd, giving them a safe place to come in and just enjoy music. So we would have bands playing there and they would bring out generations of their family. And so they would be there with their parents and their grandparents and their grandparents would be out there dancing. Well, this is amazing. Yeah. Grandparents dancing at a punk rock show. It was great. Weirdest thing I saw for that. Jason, I know you were a fan. I don't know if you're a fan of Reverend Horton Heath at all. I've heard and listened and enjoyed but I wouldn't say I'm, you know, a follower. Right, yeah. I mean, every once in a while I'll just like check out venues near me and be like, oh, I like that band. I'll go for 20 bucks. And I've like, that's how I found Reverend Horton Heath. And I was like, this is worth going to and it's worth going to because the crowd is so weird. It's like on the one hand you've got the crowd. It's like girls in like the elbow length gloves and like the full hair, makeup, like dress, everything. But because he's like Psycho-Billion works really closely with like punk bands, what's his name from the Dead Kennedys? Jello, what's, I can never remember his last name, but his new band, yes, his new band opened for Reverend Horton Heath. So you have these like aging punk guys in like their 60s with their kids who are 16 and then these girls in full on rockabilly dress and these greaser guys. Cowboys too, like people in full cowboy hats and stuff. Love it. Like you look around here like, what is happening right now? And I'm just staying there and like this 60 year old man, I'm not kidding, stood like climbed up my body and launched himself into a mosh pit off of me. And I was just like, I don't know what's happening right now, but I feel like I should leave, but I'm not. So weird. But you know, I always love it. That is a fantastic crowd of his shows, yeah, for sure. It was those, those crowds are always so weird. And they're usually just really, really nice, but it's like that weird thing where you've got the 16 year old kids that just like want to mosh the Dead Kennedy songs. And then the 16 year old men who still want to mosh the Dead Kennedy songs that then are like in that mindset and then are just like beating tether up to rockabilly. And it gets so weird, but it's really, really fun. Love it. Music is fun. Yeah, I need to go to more shows. That's, that's my thing. And drink more. Again. Drink more. More beer education. Only way to develop that talent. So go to more shows and drink at the shows. That's the perfect balance right there. I'm working on it, working on it. Few places have stone on tap though. It's always Lagunitas IPA is the one they have. At least where I am. Now, as of last week, Heineken, Lagunitas IPA. Yeah, Lagunitas sold out the remaining shares. Heineken bought 50% of them a couple of years ago. They just bought the remaining 50%. So Lagunitas is now not a company, but a brand owned by Heineken. Really? Weird. I mean, I, maybe that explains why I see them everywhere all the time. Oh yeah. Lagunitas is like the beer that like we're anywhere in the country. I'm always like, well, I know that's a good beer. So I'll just take that. Weird. Huh. Yeah, not a terrible business move. Yeah, sorry, go ahead. Oh, not a terrible business move.  It's like a standard, decent IPA, but Heineken is one of those beers that I've felt I've actually tasted a difference and depending on where it, where I am. Ah, yes. Absolutely. And that's one, and actually now that I'm thinking about it, my friend Lyle, who's been on the show before, he's the one who only liked Heineken that's brewed in Europe. Yes. And won't drink it. And he looks, and I've never, I cannot, I've never had the two side by side to taste the difference, but he'll literally like we'll be sitting in the bar and he'll look at the bottle and be like, oh, it's not an import. I'm not drinking that. Heineken's the first beer actually that I was aware that that's a thing. Yeah. Okay. So the green bottles are subject to light and an off-flavor in beer when it gets hit by UV light is skunk. Okay. So- White ground bottles? Amber, yeah. We call them, in the industry, we call them amber, but yeah, ground bottles. Yeah, so, you know, you have clear bottles, you have green bottles and you have the amber bottles. Take a Corona, right? And put one in your fridge and put one in direct sunlight for five minutes, then bring it back inside, pour in both, and you'll notice that one tastes like beer, one is totally skunked. And the reason for that is the UV light cuts, when the UV light hits it, in one of the hop compounds, there's a single, like a CO bond that it cleaves, and what's left is the actual identical or very similar molecule to the one that comes out of a skunk scent gland in pretty much any beer. Yeah. So, with Heineken, early when Heineken was being brought into the States in their green bottles, this would happen all the time, and Americans became accustomed to that skunk flavor in Heineken beers. It doesn't happen in Europe because it's fresh, it happens here, but when they actually have the technology to get it under control and remove that skunk flavor from the beers, the Americans are like, what did you change?  So they actually intentionally let it skunk for the American market. Oh, that's so weird. Isn't it? So yeah, Heineken in Europe is brilliant. I mean, it's a beautiful, a beautiful lager. And when you get it here, this is terrible. Why do people put up with this? Well, it's the customer base. They were accustomed to it, didn't want it changed. Oh, that's so weird. Now, I really want to get two different files of Heineken and have them side by side. Yeah, you need to. Or, yeah, actually you can do it with Corona. Like I said, get two Coronas, you know, one in the sun for a few minutes, and you'll notice a huge difference. No, as you're saying that, I'm literally looking at my window sill thinking, I do get direct sunlight for a very brief moment in the late afternoon. I'm going to try this one day. That's going to be so weird. Huh? Yeah, and actually the same thing will happen with the pint of IPA. If you're at a place that's outdoors, your pint of IPA as, you know, if it's in direct sunlight, it'll skunk as you're drinking it. Oh, sun. So much more science than beer that I've ever realized is a thing. Oh, that's so weird, but so cool. And also really gross in a way. But there's lots of gross things going on with beer. For sure, it's all science. I know. When you think about beer and that it's like an active fermentation and all that is, no, it's disgusting. It's like a little bit really gross, but. Then add in some horse hooves and some fish bladders. You got a good drink there. Right. So bad. Oh God, I gotta go find out about this fish bladder thing. Yep. Yeah, and Jason, you're into the wild beers. I was a little bit Britannomyces in that where you get the flavors that are horse blanket or barnyard style as a sought after flavor in the particular beer. That's so weird. I'm so fascinated by different flavors and flavor profiles and just the way they're described too. I have a question for Jason. I never thought of this, but you're vegan. What are open air fermented beers? Cause I know like lambics are typically done in this way and I don't really know what it is, but like there's insects involved. Right. So, no, you have to be aware of how the lambics are made and a lot of lambics. Yeah, because of the bug issue. No. But they're not being killed. They're not being killed.  Yes, yes, no, that's fine. But there are, I forget, there's some lambics and a raspberry lambic in particular I'm thinking of had something to do with bugs in the process, but I don't know, I'd have to look into that. But again, the website barnivore.com, it has all the beers. You can check your beer or wine and find out if it's vegan or not, so. Oh, right on, good. And I guess I should say vegetarian too, cause vegetarians don't eat animals either. So, you know, they wouldn't eat fish, bladder or so. But yeah, barnivore.com, they do a good job of keeping up with all the breweries and stuff and so you just type in the beer you're looking for and it'll let you know which of those beers that that brewery produces are vegan friendly or not. Oh, that's great. Interesting, interesting. I know I've never thought about, I'm a vegetarian, but I've never once thought about beer being vegetarian at all. I couldn't think that, it's a drink. Yeah. I would never, it's a drink. I would never think about it, cause like literally if I'm not physically chewing the meat, I'm fine with it. So like, I'm not physically chewing a piece of steak in my beer, which would be really weird. I'm sure that exists somewhere. I mean, they made like bacon beer and stuff. Oh, exactly, exactly. I wanna say Germany. There's a cocktail bar near my house that has a series of bacon cocktails that serves all the cocktails, serve really nice cocktails, but they put like a giant hunk of bacon in it. Which if you love bacon is great, but it's sort of like, can I do this without the slab of pork?  Oh, it's nothing better. Bloody Mary's with like five shrimp and like half a cow stabbed in the bottom of it. Like it's, yeah, I think it's weird. Yeah, bacon, people love bacon. I don't know.  I love bacon. I love bacon so much. I like vegan bacon. I haven't had bacon. Yeah, I eat vegan bacon, but that's not the real thing. I put a picture of Pete, my cat on Instagram and he was in my fridge. Cause whenever I open the fridge, his first instinct is to get inside it. And I don't know. What? He is, I live with a fluffy weirdo. I'm very aware of it, but he loves to be in my fridge. And I tweeted, or I put a picture of him on Instagram and it's like meowing at me in the fridge. And there was smart life bacon in it. And people were judging me from my non-bacon preferences that day. It's very weird. Like speaking of, yeah. All right.  You have a, I'm gonna say corgi, did you say? Come here. Come here. Pete's sleeping on the couch behind me. Oh, what kind of dog? Cocker Spaniel. This is, you gotta need to get up a little bit. There you go. This is Amber Ail. Hi Amber Ail. Oh my gosh. She's so cute. She was my Valentine's Day rescue nine years ago. Wow. Oh, that's fantastic. Hi, sweetie. And she, yeah. Love that face. Did you wake her up to bring her? I did. Did you wake her up? She looks a little baby. All right, sorry. You can go back to sleep. Okay, you're internet famous now. Now you're internet famous.  It's my sidekick. Valentine's Day rescue. Yeah, yeah. So every Valentine's Day, that's your birthday. We celebrate a birthday. That's perfect. I love it. Yeah. That's the best. That's the best. Yeah. Sidekick. Yeah, animal sidekicks are good sidekicks. Oh, the best. This is what I learned. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't come when he's called. But he's over there. He's a cat. He's not gonna come when you call. Come on. And that round thing with his feet poking out to look like a tail. He's doing that weird shrimp sleeping thing that cats do. Yeah. We've gone long on this one, Amy. We should wrap it up. I know, I know. There's been lots of beer sites. And look, he's empty on that one. So he could refill, but. I'm basically done. I'm done enough. Yeah, sorry. This is what happens when it's just like fun people to hang out with. That's the point. Sorry, people listening. But I'm not apologizing to you guys. Okay, so I guess, okay, the wrap up. So, Andrew, where do you want to direct people to find out more about you, about Stone, about beer? Oh, just, yeah, when you're out, maybe you order Stone, chip into my paycheck a little bit. Yeah. And that's that. I'm not a social media guy, so there's no follow me or anything, but thanks for asking. But drink Stone. Yeah, follow me on LinkedIn. There you go. Yeah. I don't use LinkedIn anymore. We'll put some links to Stone stuff and give you guys listening and watching some information on how to find Stone in your local areas again. Because it is amazing here, and you love it. Jason, you, where can we find more of it? Twitter, at acentric, that's A-C-E-C-E-N-T-R-I-C. So that's Twitter and Instagram as well. Best places.  Awesome stuff. Yeah, sorry, this got way longer than I expected it to. You guys can find me, Amy, on Twitter and on Instagram, AST Vintage Space. And you can find me on YouTube here, which is also Vintage Space, the channel. If you Google Vintage Space, you'll find me. That is about it. Well, let's quickly jump back and ask him our final question. Yes, don't forget our question, Amy. We didn't ask you yet. Oh, sorry, I dumped the gun, big time, okay. So, okay, forgetting that travel time does not exist and that you have things like oxygen and food and life. Magic technology. You could go to all the magic in the universe. If you could go to any body in our solar system, where would you go and why? Oh my, all right. Anybody in the solar system and why? All right, so I'm gonna rule out the planets. I'm gonna probably go with a Saturn or Jupiter moon and Celitus. And why? And why? You got me, I'm just gonna say, you know what, it sounds, I like the name. I don't know, let's go. That works, that works. And you know, I love Enceladus, so you don't need to say any more than that, that's cool. All right. What's on it, does Enceladus have volcanism? Are there volcanoes on Enceladus? It's completely ice, it's got a subsurface ocean. And it's, yeah, it's got active, it vents water into space, very cool. All right, solid choice on Enceladus. Thank you. All right, okay, so after, okay, belatedly asking our final question, you listeners and watchers know our social media and things where to find us. So Andrea, well thank you again for joining us today. This is really fun, really appreciate you coming on and like hanging out with us for an hour and a half. Very cool. It's been awesome. Guys, if you would like to get more of these videos, go up on Vivid Space biweekly and we release them on iTunes as well. And if you want standard videos about space history, also subscribe to the channel and let us know your thoughts in the comments section below. Questions for us, beer questions, music, space, anything, people you want to talk to, beer you want us to drink, anything you have on your mind. Let us know all those things in the comments below and we will see you guys next time. Thank you so much for watching slash listening. Later. Bye. Cheers.