Okay, so we're just about to begin an interview with Norm Mercer. It is December 1st, 2015. We are in St. John's, Newfoundland, and the interviewer, as usual, will be William McCrip. So just to begin, could you please state your full name? Yes, okay. So my full name is Norman Lloyd Mercer. And your age? My age? I'll be 62 this Friday, December the 4th. At the birthday? Yes, thank you very much. And it's a beautiful sunny wintery day here in St. John's. And where were you born? I was born on the Army side. I'm originally from Gander. So I was born on the Army side, which was located just near the airport, Gander Airport, on December 4th, 1953. And what did your parents do when you were a child for a living? Yes, okay. So, well, certainly my mother and father were both very active community members involved in many different organizations. And my father was the electrical supervisor for Gander International Airport with the Department of Transport. And prior to confederation, he worked in Gander and he worked with the Canadian Armed Forces there as a civilian electrical technician.  And my father, as I say, worked with the Department of Transport. And our home in Gander was the 10th private dwelling built in the Newtown site in the early 50s. And so, you know, for my first few months, I moved in. And so we grew up on Midcalf Street, myself and my three brothers and my sister. I live on Midcalf Street in Ottawa. Yes, okay. Yes. And all the streets are just about all the streets in Gander, are named after famous aviators. Okay. Right. Yes. So what did you do as a child for fun? What were your go-to activities? Well, I've said this many times in many presentations to various groups, whether it be teachers or students or prospectors and others. But just outside that window is the greatest outdoor classroom and laboratory in the world. It can never, with all the greatest minds, can never be duplicated inside four walls in a lab or a classroom. And so we were very much outdoor oriented. Our parents were very outdoor oriented. My mom was heavily involved, grew up in the Girl Guides in Twillinggate. And so she was quite active in Girl Guides. And my sister got involved with that. We were quite active in all levels of scouting. My dad served on the group committee, wanting us to be exposed to other adults and to build those relationships and strengths in our characters. But as far as so, we were very outdoor oriented. So whether it was lots of street hockey, hockey on the pond, playing in the tall grass and imagining that we were various tribes of Indians and cowboys and so on. Every type of adventure. One of my favorite activities was lying down in the evening just after dark with my friends on a grassy field and looking up and imagining as far as the stars and the universe and all the opportunities. Yeah, for sure. So already into exploration kind of. Oh, yes. And so in terms of, well, in our early years, and while my grandparents, my grandparents were alive in Bay Roberts, we would visit there during my father's summer holidays. Or we would go to Twillinggate. My mother's parents had passed away at earlier ages, but we would spend all kinds of time looking for little crabs or other creatures in the kelp beds just across the road from their home in Twillinggate or in Bay Roberts. And then we would hike the hills and cliffs and crags and search for all kinds of glistening white quarts that we would take and gather and other sparkly looking stones. Or we would look for various types of flowers or types of plants or in terms of wildlife in Twillinggate. There were some foxes in the hills. And so we used to spend our days roaming the hills and and just having all kinds of great fun and creating in our own minds various types of activities and events in the evenings. It was spotlight. As I say, there was such a range of activities that and trouting, fishing, fall of the year, picking berries with our parents, whether it was blue berries or partridge berries or marsh berries. But as I say, our parents were very outdoor oriented, like most Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. And I guess what television only came in the early 50s. We had two channels, CBC and CJON. But no, most we had the greatest lab in the world, the greatest facility in the world. And that was the great outdoors. And it was just our days were full. There was just one and the same legacy in the early years in school. My mother just had one rule that supper would be at five o'clock. And as we got older in school, of course, we were involved, involved in all kinds of extracurricular activities. But great interest I had and my brother's had in, again, collecting sparkling stones and minerals, particularly the white quartz, which we would then take a bag of it and go in a closet in one of our grandparents' homes and with no light and we would try to cause sparkles. And so we would spend much time at that. And your interests at school, were there certain classes where you were really good or very interested in? I loved history. I loved science, but most courses I really enjoyed as far as all, you know, as I say, for our parents, as I say, I've often thought of and I always did over the years, just how the time in terms of, you know, with five children and all the various activities. And let's say in the summers, like we would go camping all over Newfoundland and to the mainland, to Prince Edward Island, to Nova Scotia, to Brunswick. And we would go to various parks or various facilities and camp out. And we'd have sing songs and campfires. So, you know, it was a very, very active, wonderful, so wonderful upbringing. So it's kind of like me for school where you kind of liked everything. So so what what were your plans going into? Or starting to finish high school? What were your plans going to be for higher education? Yes. So like I say, so the oldest in our family, my sister, she she came into St. John's to do nursing at the old general and became a nurse in the province. And my older brother, my oldest brother, well, like I say, he was building he was building radios, I think when he was seven or eight years old or all kinds of electrical gadgets. He was a whiz and very disciplined, very, very, very bright. And so he went on to do engineering, electrical engineering here at Memorial. And it was only a three year program at that time. And you had to finish your degree in Atlantic Canada at Nova Scotia Technical College. So he went on there and did that. And one of the Governor-General's medal for the highest marks. And even in school, he was all around as far as scholastic sports, editor of the school news, everything. And and so for myself and my brothers, we were probably more outdoor oriented myself and my brother, one year older than I. We both went on and did geology. My younger brother did became a park naturalist. But in my, you know, when you look at grade nine, 10, 11, well, as I say, we grew up in scouting and in an outdoor family environment. So we had a group grade 11. We had a group in Ventures at that time. And there was about 12 or 14 of us and a number of people were going to do wildlife management, several were going to do forestry. And several of us, my brother had gotten a summer job. So I would have been grade 11 and he would have been first year university. And Naranda Mines, Naranda Exploration had just opened up an office in Gander and had several geologists and field crew there. That's where they came in contact with the Keats, the well-known Keats family, Ted and Alan Keats and their other brothers who they grub state as prospectors. And and so my brother that summer got a job as a junior assistant with Naranda in their exploration programs in the province coming over from the Brunswick. And so they were mostly focused on base metal volcanic volcanic genomic master sulfide type deposits. And and so when he would come out of the field or various times when we chatted, you know, with just as far as because I always had that interest in in rocks of minerals and the outdoors. And it just was it was I guess it's probably from the stories he told me and about these activities and exploits as far as in helicopters and in field camps and the type of work and searching for these types of deposits that that kind of convinced me not to do forestry or wildlife management, but to pursue earth sciences and geology because in high school, we had we had physics and chemistry and biology, but we didn't have a formal geology course. OK, and that was only available in certain schools in the province. It's mostly if it's going to be amongst the sciences. Many times the geology is considered the the lesser of the the major group of sciences. And that debate and discussion has been had many times. They're all important sciences for sure. Yes. And so you graduated from geology. Yes, I did three years at at Mon. My mind and efforts, my mind and efforts weren't totally focused on the academic side. And I was quite heavily involved on the politics of the department, politics in general and history. I love the the outdoor, you know, the field component and labs and so on. But as far as formal classroom type settings, it wasn't for me. So I did three years. I had worked with Miranda and I think they they saw enough in me. People like Peter Dimmel and Ron Hopps and Bud James that they they kept me on and I stayed out for what I guess it was over a year or more. My parents really encouraged me to, you know, that you should really, you know, at some point come back and finish your degree. I had, you know, I had a good B average and I enjoyed it. So I went back. But, you know, I I completed it. But really, as I say, I still wasn't. I still wasn't the skill of scholastically focused, I guess. I put it that way. And so you didn't just to finish it. I did it. Yes, honestly, I did it just to finish it. Yeah. So I finished there and graduated nineteen seventy five seventy six with the Bachelor of Science in geology. And what would you consider your first real job to be afterwards? Well, I there were several different potential potential jobs. Miranda had offered me a project geologist position in New Brunswick, which I which I graciously declined. I wanted to stay here in the province. I have the and we're growing up in my family and our roots and Tullinggate and Bay Roberts and growing up in central Newfoundland.  You know, they could have picked up work here, but opportunities were more limited. But I did want to stay and to try to, you know, pursue my interests here and to contribute. So in terms of in terms of the first real position that I got, yes, because I know it was a habit to be in in habit to be price at that time. They were looking to interview for a position in the Grand Falls Buckins area. And there were several other positions that were a part time. But there was a position that was was advertised for a geologist to work on the mineral occurrence data system with the provincial with the provincial geological survey. So that was in around about 1977. And prior to that, I had worked with one of their project geologists mapping in central Newfoundland for about six months. And so I came in, I drove in for an interview myself and my older uncle from Tullinggate came in with me for a run. And did the interview, we were going to stay overnight. And, you know, as they say, I was more an outdoors type. So my uncle waited for me quietly and patiently in the car while I did the interview at the government building.  But I looked at him after the interview and I said, do you really want to stay in St. John's tonight? And he said, not really. And I said, no, same here.  So that next day, they called to say that I had successfully come first in the interview. So I started a 15 month contract with within the within the mines branch, within the now at that time, it was, I think, the mineral development division. But it was the mineral occurrence database system. And this, of course, was based on the national mineral inventory system that the that the federal government had and that the various provinces had tried to to correlate their data with and integrate their data with within a computerized mods database, mineral occurrence database. So I worked on that and I worked on the Stevenville NTS 12B mineral occurrence map sheet for Western Newfoundland and also quite active with the with the division manager, along with the computer geologists they had to develop the to develop the computer program for that. So that was about 15 months. And I suppose really sometimes it's being in the right place at the right time. And one of the other chaps who was there working with the Geological Survey, chapter, the name of Doug Fogwell, he had worked there as a mineral information geologist or exploration consultant. This, you know, had chosen that point to move on. And so that position was came open and it was advertised. And this was more or less in the early days, starting in the early 70s, they're mid 70s of the pan provincial and national mineral development agreements across the country, where the federal federal government and very federal governments committed significant dollars and provinces put in their portions. But this was really the beginning of the of the development of a modern well staffed geological survey and mines branch within this province and certainly within other provinces. So I applied for that position, which was a permanent position with the provincial geological survey as mineral exploration or industry geologist. And I was successful in getting that. So I started that in, I think it was January of 1978. And I stayed in that position from there till, I guess, the spring of 2012, March 2012. And I love my work. It wasn't work. It was my hobby. And as I say, I interacted in a wide range and a diverse range of different of different responsibilities and activities, mostly focused, as I say, towards our prospectors and towards those with the junior or mid tier or major companies that we're looking at Newfoundland and Labrador as a place to come and explore. Were there any throughout your career? Are there any examples of project you worked on or were involved with that resulted in really fruitful findings that are worth mentioning? Well, I guess in terms of, you know, I at that time, there was an exploration association in the province because we did have like companies like Miranda and Falconbridge and INCO and so on, along with there wasn't many prospectors, independent prospectors who who worked on their own in the early parts of my career in the 1970s and prior to that, you know, in in much of the last century, two thirds of the last century. And even prior to that, the main mode of acquiring mineral rights in the province was called the concession system, where Newfoundland and Labrador didn't have a lot of developed infrastructure. The mapping was only regional at best. The geoscience database was was was was sparse and and so to to attract to to attract the large mainland companies to the province or international companies with with not a whole lot of road access infrastructure, you know, electrification and mapping and so on. The mode was the concession system, which would be to offer the big carrot, which is to offer large tracts of land to these various companies to come in and to work over many, many years. And so they were long term concessions over vast parts of our mineral rights. And that came to be known and during our first half of Confederation during the Smallwood years, that was a mode of land tenure that Joey Smallwood and with advice from from the advisors that he had, both within government and outside. That was the process by which by which investment was attracted to the mineral industry in this province. Was it unique or new? No. You know, when we look at the history of Newfoundland and Labrador, it's always been the big carrot. And so this this mindset of by successive governments of no more giveaways, it was a matter of of large tracts of land or large tracts of rights in our province, whether it was to build the railway a hundred odd years ago. And the island government, the colony didn't have a lot of money, so they offered tracts of land and they offered woods rights and so on and so on. When the when the large mill was created in central Newfoundland, again, by the Anglo Newfoundland Development Company, they were given the the water rights, the forestry rights, mineral rights. And there was a history of those related to many of the big projects. And one of the challenges was the length of these types of agreements and the and the what what appeared to be like significant significant requirements of work and economic activity. But over time, it was a matter of of these companies did this work. But then for especially as we got into the sixties, some of these areas kind of became stagnant. There wasn't a lot of activity and the government started to look and when we look in terms of within Canada, which has a modern mineral industry. And if we look at those provinces with with with the significant and diverse mineral industries and commodity production, you see you see that they had a more competitive style of acquiring mineral rights. It showed in provinces like Ontario and Quebec or in New Brunswick or in Manitoba and British Columbia, where you saw in some of these bigger provinces, multi-billion dollar industries that some of the key cornerstones were, you know, competitive land tenure systems, a vibrant pool of prospectors and teams of prospectors that had a significant part to play promoters, some juniors and you go up, you know, from there to mid-tier to major companies. And so in this province, though, we had those types of people in the early days of particularly in the 1800s, but different different governments over time basically moved more towards this business of the concession system. Of course, our early history was such when the early fishing admirals and the government from England would not allow any, they would allow temporary construction and habitation around the beaches and coves, but no permanent residency. And so, you know, we were very much a controlled controlled country and many of our rights, as I say, were were issued out to a small number of players, some local, some in England, some in some in mainland Canada or in the United States. And and it was in the latter part of the second half, the latter part of the last century, when that started to change, you know, in terms of in terms of how we would move forward to develop a more modern competitive land tenure system. So I guess for me, most of my most of my most of my efforts or work that I was involved in would be in terms of to assist and support and do what I could in my role to encourage and support the prospectors who started to come on the scene in the province. I spent considerable time within the CIM Newfoundland branch as a volunteer. I initiated the mining week initiatives in terms of public awareness and education in the early 1990s when the industry was at very much of a low. But I knew we had such such tremendous potential. We are a people of a vast landmass, half a million people. We should be amongst the most wealthy, vibrant societies anywhere on the planet. And so why has that not happened? And there's a number of reasons for that. But we have such diverse resources. In terms of, you know, in terms of and always when I give talks to students and so on that if we want to see our present or future, we have to look at that past and we have to go right back to our geological history. We have to go right back to very rich islands.  It's one of those unique places because of its vast coastline and cliff exposures that you can basically see a full cross section through an ancient mountain belt where two ancient continents collided and destroyed an ocean hundreds of millions of years ago and capturing over 600 million years of Earth history. And then we looked at Labrador where some of the oldest rocks have been dated existing on the planet over four billion years. Those types of events of continental collision, ocean destruction and the tectonic upheaval, they repeated themselves many times. So what does that say is that we have vast mineral potential? And of course, in our offshore, you know, we from the very earliest of explorers, you know, we we are located along adjacent to one of the great fishing baskets, one of the great food, food baskets of the world in terms of within the grand banks of Newfoundland and Labrador, which were the debris that was shed from those ancient mountains as they eroded the weather down and and flow, those materials flow towards the sea. And so we had such a diverse and vibrant fishery. And when you look at the the monies that were made in whales or seals or all the vibrant life on the sea and the birds and then when you look at a people that, for the most part, in the rural areas were destitute, then something is not right. And that was always my interest and my history of what I wanted to stay. And so if I always I was taught that if we all can make it just a little bit better during our time and with opportunity, then then we've done our part. And so that's what I was guided by by my two parents. They raised a family in a wonderful setting with nothing but love in that house. And my mother was a person of great faith, but she lived her faith. And both of them were very active and both in support of family neighbors and community. And so that whole that whole mindset of giving back, I guess it's something that was instilled in me from a very early age. So I spent an awful lot of time on the volunteer side of things in my community or within my profession. And so for me, I can't really look at one, you know, one particular project because there were quite a number of projects. I I supported prospectors and encouraged them wherever I could. I participated in the in the industry associations. We, when I say we, this would be with among some of the industry players like a Peter Demmel, some of these people who put time into these things to try to to try to attract and secure further investments. So we so we applied and we got some funding from regional government programs to assist prospectors to go to shows like the Roundup in Vancouver to meet with many of the various companies and promoters there. Or we started the Atlantic Canada Rock Room. We teamed up with other players from New Brunswick and Nova Scotia to create the Atlantic Canada Rock Room, which was a showcase of the mineral resources, geology and potential of the Appalachians in this part of the Northeastern Canada. And and so, you know, the the list goes on and on as far as the various types of projects. Did you ever do a bit of prospecting on your own? I always had I always had an interest and I always had an interest. I had a very supportive employer within my family. My oldest son has a disability, an intellectual disability. It's I also have two daughters, but many times for my son, who I when he when he became old enough and joined beavers. And we always believed in a totally inclusive setting for for our son and to nurture and love him to the best of his of our abilities and for him to realize the best that life can offer. Realizing that for him, there was a requirement for strong supports. And so when I was in scouting, I'm an honorary member of the provincial Council of Scouting in this province after spending 30 odd years and nurtured and I hope I I passed on some positive positive qualities to hundreds of young people in my area. But when my son, Steven, was old enough and went in the beavers, I went right back as a leader from scouting and ventures and went right back and then follow them through right through to to rovers. And so in terms of so in terms of as Steven got older and he always enjoyed the other doors and hiking. And I had an arrangement with the department and this is how I I would have my son out on the weekend and we would go and we would visit with various prospectors. And if it was accessible sites, the department would give me a vehicle and a gas card. And I would give the prospectors my time and property visits. And I did that for years during my son's early teen and teen years on in truth. So so as far as to go and visit with prospectors and to try to give them some advice and guidance. So the prospecting that I did was was to assist them to give them some tips and ideas. They they got some further knowledge from someone who had a background in geology and that background in exploration. And so it was a win win for me and my son. And it was those opportunities because most of my work was related out of the office. So digging through a lot of the old data to find clues and tips of new information or historic information that could aid prospectors in various parts of the island or Labrador. So from those from those data sets and from those visits, whether showings or prospects that were followed up on or new discoveries made. Oh, yes, many, many were made. But, you know, like I say, in terms of when I was with when the Voysys Bay was discovered by Al Chisler than Christopher Biskey on a beautiful sunny fall afternoon in September of 1993. And they came back just a few weeks later from their finishing up their diamond work diamond exploration in Labrador. They came to visit me in the office as all the various prospectors did and and still do at my home. And brought in their pack stack and asked if I had a bit of time to look at some samples. And they hauled out the first samples from a rusty gossum that they had located somewhere in Labrador. And they hadn't staked any claims at that time at a place what later became known as Discovery Hill. So we had as I had had hundreds of times, you know, throughout the years. I, you know, I described the samples to the prospectors. I gave them a sense of the type of setting, the type of mineralization and, you know, what possibly was economic within those samples. So I hope in some small way, my advice, my guidance, whether it was in the field or whether it was in the office, help play a part to realize to realize some some value and some discovery for those people, because that passion I have and that belief as a geologist with that science is that we have we have vast resources still on tap. We only have had a modern generation of prospectors really since the 1980s. And when we look at these other provinces and in terms of those building blocks that came together to to to realize vibrant multi-billion dollar mineral industries, we're only still in the early days of that of that effort. Change topics a little bit, but more on the social side. But how absent or present were women in the workplace throughout your career? Yeah, so it's something that I mean, in the early years, I remember when I did when I did geology, you know, and so the first couple of years of our second year class in geology, I think it was 42 young people from all over Newfoundland and Labrador and several from Atlantic Canada. Most all of them were males. I think there was either four or six females at that time. And over a period of time, I mean, and I've seen that over the years and through and through, you know, through the through various initiatives through through more public awareness through some very targeted affirmative action programs. You know, we've seen that grow and through a range of, I guess, you know, policy decisions to but and program development. But like women in resources and so on, or out the outdoors for the woman, there's a number of different initiatives. But, you know, now many years, the class is probably 55 percent or 60 percent young female adults or young females. Right. Yeah. So it's changed dramatically. And that's the same across a number of the sciences. So one time what would be probably, you know, it would very very odd to see actually a field geologist who was a woman. You know, yes, there might be some who worked in the lab or in research at the university or at the office within offices, within government, you see more and more now achieving the the field, the field side of the sector. And that's reflected now, you know, certainly within our own geological survey in this province or at the university. And I'm sure that's similar in many provinces across the across the country. When I went to school and all of us, as far as the baby boomers of the late 40s, 1950s. But I mean, when I went to school in the mid 1950s and 60s, there were a hundred and fifty thousand school children from kindergarten to grade eleven in this province. Today, there are sixty eight thousand. We have a very much an aging population. Most of us, as far as baby boomers, are like, you know, you're looking at late fifties into early sixties. I think it's something like twenty five or thirty percent of our province's population will be beyond sixty five within a few short years. But in terms of just when you look at the when you look at the number of of school children and within that population, fifty two percent are girls. So I mean, you're talking less than seventy thousand I remember when we used to do up rock and mineral kits, educational teaching kits for schools in this province. Back first when we were involved in it in the 1970s and prior to that, Doug Fogwell and others were involved. But I mean, there was something like almost a thousand to twelve hundred schools in this province. Back when Newfoundland and Labrador came into confederation, there were close to fourteen hundred communities. Most of those communities were located on the islands or coves or nooks or crannies close to the fishing grounds. That was our history. That was our development. And then over time and certainly during small wood centralization program of the 1960s to bring in a lot of the small groups of people from some of these island communities, such that if you wanted to have proper road access, if you wanted to have good schools, if you wanted to have health care for a place with such a large landmass and such a small population, there was just no way. And that's not just a history of ourselves. I think many rural areas of Canada and other places and see a lot of those small farming towns or logging communities that would disappear. And if you look also, especially with the aging population, if you look at all of Atlanta, Canada, it's looking like that. Yes, exactly. My region, New Brunswick, it's very similar. I mean, it's the same across the country. Yes. And most developed countries in the world. But especially in the United Canada, it's going to be an issue. Yes, no, exactly. And it's an issue and and, you know, past governments and certainly for the present government, these are issues that are that are front and center in terms of where we're to. And my belief has always been and going forward that the that we have great potential for other discoveries. We have we have tremendous opportunities, whether it's within the mineral side, whether it's in oil and gas. Whether it's in hydro and energy and so on. I remember when when Albert and Chris went on and secured a two year. They they were the discoverers of Voisey's Bay as two of our local prospectors. One of the greatest mineral discoveries within North American history at a place called Voisey's Bay. And when they went on to secure a two year exploration management contract to oversee the exploration and drilling at Voisey's Bay with Diamond Fields, you know, they put together a local team of people within their private company, Archean Resources. They asked me to step away from government for a year, which is something individuals can do. You can go back to university, you can travel or you can go into the private sector for a year. And so I was manager of corporate affairs for Archean here in St. John's. And when you look at the I used to meet fairly often with the Norwegians, who are quite active here. And, you know, when you look at our landmass, when you look at our population base, as I say, we should be one of the wealthiest, richest peoples. And I don't mean just in money, OK? Because as I say, I have a son who has a disability and poverty, your impoverishment or lack of opportunity is more than just financial. It's a it's a range of things, whether it's education, whether it's access to good quality work or good quality health care services and so on.  And I remember saying to Albert and Chris, I said, you know, per capita we're richer than the Kuwaitis. And so now why do we have a stagnant, stubborn, you know, double digit unemployment rate?  And so one of our strongest things and why like, well, like, say for Alches and for myself and a number of others, why the Newfoundland and Vibrador Party was formed was because of what became very well known, I guess, with Premier Brian Peckford in the early days of the offshore and the Atlantic Accord. And if you look at under Premier Danny Williams, as far as no more giveaways, you know, that that the discovery and those commodities, which are of such value to our societies because, you know, we we utilize the products of minerals and that's growing every year at two or three percent, even though there's a big downturn right now. The old adage was if it can't be grown, it has to be mined. We're doing this today using the products developed from minerals, but we wouldn't have these technologies. Yeah, I'm going to ask you just on that that good quote right there. I'll ask you the question. Do you think there is a disconnect between the general population and the natural resource world or these industries? Yes, I'm going to say in terms of there's a huge disconnect and there's been efforts that have made, I think that they need to be more collaborative across the country. There have been instances of that, as I say, back in 1990. And that was a time when our industry was in one of those cyclical lows. Several of the mines in the province had either exhausted their resources or reserves or markets were down and mines closed or say, like in the instance of our asbestos mine, of course, there was the whole health and safety issues around of mining of asbestos and so on. And so it was a very low time within the industry. But I rolled up my sleeves and I was only one of the number of people both within the department, the mines branch and some from industry. We rolled up our sleeves and I cheered the first mining week initiative, which was to which was to highlight and promote our mineral industry. It's it's it's it's present state of affairs, but in terms of also the whole business of for the for students and for the general public to realize that it is the products of minerals that are all around us.  And of course, a number of provinces were working on these things. Eventually there was a national mining week. So different provinces have done different things. I know our people have teamed up. And when I say our people, I mean, through the Mines Branch and the Geological Survey, there was a there was an outreach public education geologist position there over the past few years that the young geologist who was involved there, who had good science as a background, who had the teaching experience, who had outreach experience through the geocenter and she initiated Amanda McCullum, she initiated a number of initiatives, which was to upgrade and modernize the rock and mineral kit what rock and mineral kit resources and to make them totally compatible with curriculum outcomes in the school system because for teachers and for academics, I mean, if you can just you know, reach off shelf for these resources being developed in a very dynamic and stressful education setting today so that these products are there and they could just incorporate them right within their within their lesson plans, whether it was in grade four or grade seven or in the earth resources courses of high school, then this would be that much the better. So public outreach and education. I remember going to Halifax many years ago and a lot of the this was during one of the during one of the the mines ministers conferences and I was surprised I was asked but I appreciate it because I was education share for the local chapter or local branch of CIM and so this was to talk mining week and to talk about the the various initiatives and I mean around that table under that particular that particular subset topic which was going to be on public awareness and education, you know, you had like the corporate affairs director for tech and the corporate affairs director for income and on and on around and also oil and gas because these industries cross over with the energy, energy mines and resources, cattle and the natural resources. And I said, like I said, ladies and gentlemen, if we just go around the table, just what's your budget? 12 million a year, 8 million, six. I should just add up, you know, the resources and I said, so there's a there's something not working, you know, with regards to it's not a matter of access to to financial resources or human resources. Where's the disconnect? So let's look at this. Let's start looking at some of these things and and some of this required bringing in those who could gather that kind of information for us. But I mean, you know, the credibility, the credibility rating of many of the CEOs at that time in the 70s and 80s, 90s was at a very low level. So if you're pitching your industry, and so you put out there and could be the finest kind of most of them are men within the corporate world, there was a complete disconnect. I mean, it's a matter in some areas, there's good working relationships between and we also, like I said, we're in our mind week initiative as we reached out to the unions. Everybody's got to be part of the fix. And so and and there's been, you know, there's been there's been some good work. It's it's multi generational. It's not something that's going to that's going to change, you know, within a few years, it's going to take a lot of time and as more and more of the populations become urbanized in the world is removed from those resource producing sectors, you know, then it becomes an even bigger challenge. But the the resources are there. They're somewhat disjointed and PDAC and CIM. I mean, a number of them have done a lot of good work, but there needs to be a lot more done. And, you know, we pick at it as in as as volunteers within our local prospectors association, and we worked at it within CIM and a number of us with government and government supporters. I mean, remember the first mining week we did and Premier Clyde wills agreed, along with our minister, Rex Gibbons. And so we had them out at the paraffelite mine to provide to promote the paraffelite mine and paraffelite and its uses. And so but these are just like the environmental movement. All these things didn't happen, you know, and the greatest resource that we have is is the people in this industry, beyond the boardrooms, beyond the management. And some of these are very vital and important. But it's the average individual that works in those, you know, in those mines and forestry learned backs in terms of how they went about education many years ago. Mining has learned some aspects of it. There's a lot of good things that are going on, but there's a lot more to be done there because of that whole challenge of, you know, one of the great submarine mines of the world is just a few minutes beyond here at Bell Island, one of the great iron ore mines of the world operated there for much of the last century. And thousands of people work there. And this city right here, this community and many of the business people in this community gained great, you know, wealth from from the paychecks of those miners. It's like out in central Newfoundland with the Grand Falls Windsor the Pope and Papermill. And then, of course, at Buckins, you had the discovery by one of our native sons, Matty Mitchell, of the great Buckins deposits, one of the highest grade polymetallic VMS systems in the world. And that was under the old Anglo-Newfoundland development charter of those concessions. That was then when the A&D got a circle in there because they were having troubles in the early days with the metallurgy to make the Buckins mines commercially viable. It was a co-tenancy, a 50-50 percent arrangement. So there were times when the pulp and paper prices were down, that it was their 50 percent of the profits that came from Buckins that helped maintain Grand Falls Windsor. And so those things, those stories, those, you know, those connections, just this past summer, you know, we had a number of our members go on mine tours to the Baybert Peninsula, which is one of our most historic and modern mining areas in the province. And so a number of our members went on mine tours to the Rambler Copper Gold Mine and to the Anacondas Pine Cove Open Pit Gold Mine, along with the Nugget Pond Mill. And then they went to the historic mining community of Tilcove, which over 100 years ago was the second largest community in this province, second only to St. John's. Bell Island, of course. I mean, there used to be 12 to 14,000 people who lived there, right, before those mines closed. And there's still billions of tons of iron ore out under Conception Bay. You had fishermen for almost a century hauling contracts while miners several hundred meters under the seafloor mined the iron ore. But that that was an important important process there this past summer, where we're as they interacted with the staff and the passion and the pride that they have in those workplaces. And that's the same in every profession. I mean, once you expose the public again, whether it's students or adults, you know, to the people that work in these industries, then you put the human face to it and you start to come to understand the different aspects of it, the safety side of things, the health, you know, and so on and economic importance. And and how they that sector has sustained many communities, you know, throughout the province and across the country. So every place has done different things. What I said to the president of the PDAC, like several of the large organizations have, you know, they they have very healthy bank balance. We're a small organization. We can do an awful lot with the passion and volunteerism. But in some instances, you need access to some funds. And and they they teamed up, as I say, the province with the PDAC and with Mining Matters and they delivered those programs in the Northern Inuit communities and also in the Inuit community several years ago. So the disconnect is there. There's efforts that are being made. But again, it's it's not enough. There's still a lot more needs to be done. Back, I guess, what was it in the 1980s? Part of the Memorial University and Memorial had as many of these small communities because of their their history and because, as I say, for for for for much of our first, you know, 150 to 200 years, permanent habitation and community development was was illegal, you know, in terms of the control that the that the British fishing Admirals and some of the merchants had over the peoples, but within Memorial University. And they used to say it was what was the small ones, one of his greatest accomplishments. And as far as what Confederation, of course, was a tremendous benefit. And the vast majority of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are very proud Canadians.  But I know we started the Newfoundland and Labrador Party. That wasn't about the nationalism or separation. That was about that was about resources that we have and us not only just mining it or or or cutting it down or jigging the fish with a with a jigger or a trawl and sending of the way on process, but it was to secure the secondary or tertiary levels of benefits from these world class assets. And that's that's always a tug of war in various jurisdiction.  But I believe that Newfoundland and Labrador can be a net contributor to Canada and like like all areas. And and so that was that's my interest and my my belief just kind of guided me throughout my adult life. You might have mentioned a few, but this sounds like a mouthful of a question, but in your opinion, are there any events, people, inventions, discoveries, disasters, and anything really that you deem important enough to mention when talking about the history of the natural resources in Canada? Yes, yeah, certainly in terms and just to finish on the other one of the other initiatives that we had, which I was talking about university, they had a tremendous community development extension service arm, which put professional people, sociologists, a range of professions out at the disposal of a number of these communities to build community capacity. And so in terms of one of the initiatives within the more universities extension service was to develop a series of resource camps for students and teachers. And within that location, they may have developed like forestry camps, right? But they brought it we developed and we were very active in that mining and exploration science camps, which took kids from from non mining areas and exposed them along with their teachers to to prospecting in the field to mineral exploration to diamond drilling, to see the environmental footprint, the regulatory side, right up to mining. And those those went on for for a number of years, but that's the biggest challenge, right? It's having that needle and thread to bring it weave it all together, that it's a continuum. And that's that's the concern I had because it's something that you have to continually be putting efforts into because it's a multi-generational and the society change that's happening and kids more and more aren't, you know, they're more to to technologies than they are in the greatest technology and still so many discoveries to be made out there in the natural environment, right? Will it come back to that? I think it will over time, but it's going to take a lot of a lot of people, a lot of organizations and government and to make that happen. So then we're worried that was I just finished up but anyway, you asked about the if you had because you had mentioned a few discoveries and things like that, but if if you had other anything really whatsoever that you demon porn to mention when talking about the history of the natural resources in Canada, whether it's specific person, whether it's a specific discovery or a disaster, we can think of, for example, the ocean range for this area for sure. Yes, which is big. If in the long term or any of anything that comes to mind that that you think changed the natural resources or mining or geology. Yeah, I think I think in terms of for this province and in terms of because it's I know it's always was a challenge in terms of when we would interact and when I say we, whether that was within the not profit organizations or whether that was with with government and when you were dealing like say with the Department of Education or others in terms of to ensure that what was there was modern and present day and relevant acknowledge things like, you know, our sense and feel for and understanding the environment. That's something that's grown over time, you know, through a range of initiatives and and and programs and efforts by individuals. But things like the St. Lawrence, the St. Lawrence Flores Paraminds, which the local people down there, you know, as they say, you had most people in rural communities in this province that were living a sustenance lifestyle, you know, like my parents would tell me from Twillinggate, well, my uncle would say to me and he lived to be well into his 90s, but, you know, prior to Confederation and really prior to the war, but during the during the Depression. And I mean, Newfoundland went through a period of time where it gave up its own government and allowed a commission of government made up of representatives from England and some from here to manage the affairs of the country because the country through political mismanagement, thievery and just poor policy and management was broke. But my uncle used to say to me and they were, as I say, grew up in a newspaper family. There was no big money because, I mean, the chap might come in and give them a bag of turnips and carrots for to put an ad in the paper or a chicken or a few fish or whatever.  And of course, you know, the father was a newspaper man but they, before he sat down to have his supper in the evening, he had to take three or four meals around to different people. And he'd say, you know, Norm, those people were starving.  And a lot of, you know, a lot of people, you know, education was only for those who, you know, were well off and very few, as I say, my mother was one of the only ones to get grade 11 on Twillinggate Island. And Twillinggate was a very vibrant community. Now everything was by sail and motor, before the motors, but it was all by sail. Twillinggate is Portuguese for city of the North. It had a hospital. It had everything was centered around your, you know, with the church and school and family and enterprise. But these were vibrant communities. Next door to my mother and my uncle was one of the great opera singers of the world, the prime Madonna opera singer who had her own animals and vegetables. She was one of the great opera singers in Europe and in the United States, Georgina Sterling. And so the culture produced tremendous people, right? And it developed a tremendous character within our profit, within that era. But the, where am I going? I've lost my train of thought. Forgive me. What was it? We were dropped. For the, for the, Oh yes, significant things. So, so, so what I was, so that was the backdrop for my St. Lawrence.  Well, I think it was some samples of the high grade floor spar that were sent to New York for testing. And I think it was a New York businessman who came there and put together the investments to build the St. Florence floor spar mines. But, and, you know, like several generations worked, you know, because, you know, a full-time job working underground or above ground in a mine. As they say, I mean, nobody made big wages, but again, it was still much more than what the fishery was providing for them, which could be, you know, one year could be good with the cod fishery, another year it could be bad. But the long-term effects of miners underground blasting rock that contained low levels of uranium within the St. Lawrence granite, which through which these veins struck were created, the, you know, the exposure there. And so if you go to St. Lawrence, where you had men of 30 and 40 who developed all kinds of cancers and died, you know, you'd look at people and you'd say, okay, well now this gentleman is the father and he's the son, but it wasn't that way. You know, there were dozens and dozens and several hundreds of miners who died working underground in those mines because of the low levels of radiation. Now in more modern, you know, and now that wasn't tested for, you know, and so on and health and safety wasn't the same focus. And some of these industrial diseases take long times. So we had a history of several of those. So that was kind of there and the backdrop and part of the culture or at least people's general sense of working in a mine because like in David, well, it was the asbestos. It's like in the iron or company of Canada or like with silica dust within the iron ores and so on. So for a lot of the people who lived in St. John's or in other areas, they saw that it was, you know, a dirty, probably unhealthy and that kind of. So, because I remember when I came in to do, to do earth science and to do geology, that was kind of the mindsets that were there. And if you looked at what was there in your, well, then it would have been in social studies and geography and within the textbooks and schools of the 60s, 70s into the 80s. A lot of it dwelt on those types of, these things happened, but those sorts of negativities persisted even after with people, with other people who came and reopened the mine, which people would still flock to but they brought in modern ventilation. You know, if you had proper ventilation, you could reduce the risk. It's like in the asbestos mine in Bay Verk, they brought in programs and campaigns to get chaps to stop smoking, to wear the various masks and so on, right? Some of these industrial diseases take long times too. So that was the sense I know in late 70s, into the 80s that our textbooks, and there was within our culture, community or arts community or in books, I mean, there were books written on the St. Lawrence tragedy or books written on the early days at Bell Island or the Buckins miners and so on. So I think a mindset and a lot of it true that, you know, it was a really dirty, you know, unsafe work setting. And that's what I see, because a couple of the most significant things in my mind were, well, for Newfoundland and Labrador, the, you know, the change of the concession system to bring in a modern competitive claimstaking system was one of the most progressive, significant policies, legislative policies enacted by the government in the early 70s. And that was after the Smallwood era when the Moors government came in and then further on. And then they brought in a prospector training and prospector assistance program. And the first, you know, that, because as I say, the few prospectors that we did have, and there was very few of them as far as independence and the few that they worked with the government and bigger companies, whether it was with Norand or Brennick's or whoever, right? But to me, one of the most significant, which started to lay the groundwork for a future prosperous industry was the breaking of the concession system. And they did it by consulting, by looking at legislation across the country, many of the big Canadian companies, because like during the latter years with Smallwood, I mean, there were a number of people that were associated with them or a few small companies and they controlled most all of it. And so over a period of time, what the government chose to do on these large concessions or all these simple mining grants, they brought in a graduated tax system. If you did exploration, they wanted to see more exploration. And so, and also they wanted to see, you know, more of the concession coming open for claimstaking compared similar to how it was done in many of the provinces in Canada. And so they brought in a mineral-imposed tax legislation, which was a graduated tax. You had to pay so much per acre in tax per year, but if you did exploration, you could write that off against the tax. So the intent was to try to get more exploration activity, more discovery, and the same with more lands coming open. And so over a period of years, the mineral-imposed tax legislation and the new mineral act brought that about. We went from a place of over 90-odd percent of the mineral rights vested in the hands of a few to 90-odd percent of our mineral rights vested in the hands of all of us. And then you could go and gain title. But then they also, one of the things they did was to, you know, lands are coming open. And as I say, another, so a competitive land tenure system is one building block, right? I believe that was one of the most significant events in our province's mineral industry and our history. And in terms of that, another was that they started to offer small prospector grants and they brought in a prospector training program. Larry was involved in that for years, myself and one of the other geologists, several of the geologists there, we lobbied to put that together back in the many a late night, back in the 1970s, early 80s, to create a prospector training program. Yeah, yeah, he was thought he, Larry Hicks, gave it for 23 years or something. Exactly, yes. It's two weeks. It's the two week course and we're certainly working right now on several shorter introductory type courses. We just finished the other day, like our association. We want to partner with the, well, the New Nazi with government, that's the Inuit self-government in Northern Labrador, which was all part of the land claim settlement related to the Voices Day Discovery, which brought about that accelerated that land claim happening. We're looking at partnering with them to develop a five day introductory prospector course for Inuit members and it's all been put together and now they're just shopping around within the New Nazi government and also within other potential federal or provincial sources to host that particular course. And they also had prospector grants. So the minister of the day, so this is why several of the significant other events would have been when we went to school, the mindset and our history was that in terms of precious metals in this province, gold and silver, gold in particular, we didn't have a history of discovery development and mining of gold or silver per se. We did have gold and silver production, but most of that were byproducts, secondary products, valuable products within a number of the base metal and polymetallic mines such as at Buckins in central Newfoundland and as far as at Tilt Cove historically and Rambler and so on in Notre Dame Bay. And it was in the fall of 1983 and that was at a time when all the oil companies, somewhere in the late 70s, they decided that they were gonna diversify into further resource areas and they all created like minerals arms, like there was Amacup minerals, Hudson's Bay Oil and Gas Minerals Division, British Petroleum and they had Selcom and you go on through the with Chevron, Shell, they had a lot of them were into uranium, other energy sources, but they also got into particularly base metals. So it was in the fall of 1983 that BP Selco and this was after some lands had come open, but this was the discovery of the Hopebroke Gold deposit in 1983, 84 on the southwest coast of Newfoundland and that was the first significant, you know, gold deposit discovered. One of the largest in the Appalachians, you'd have to go to the Carolinas and to Hale and Ridgway and so on in the Carolinas to see these type deposits, these what are called high-sulfidation epithermal gold deposits and that sparked an awakening of potential for gold standalone or gold silver deposits in the northeastern Appalachians in Newfoundland and Labrador and it set about a lot of staking and exploration activity all over the province within what were considered to be a number of different terrains of different ages, both on both sides of that ancient ocean and in various geological terrains. That would be one of the, in my time, one of the most significant discoveries, the discovery of Hopebroke in September of 1983 and this was, I remember at the PDAC when Colin McKenzie who was the exploration manager for BP Selco gave the presentation there on the discovery and its potential, they outlined close to two million ounces of gold with a cutoff grade of two grams. BP Selco developed the modern open pit then to go underground mining operation on the southwest coast, hundreds of millions of dollars flowed in there and many millions of dollars were spent in staking and exploration in other parts of the province and as I say, because we were in school and the mindset was that, well, the Appalachians in many instances they're too deeply eroded, okay? And you're more down into the roots of this ancient mountain belt but as more and more mapping and science and discovery is the made, we see now that within the Appalachian terrain of northeastern Canada, the Atlantic region and Newfoundland that in a number of instances in places the ancient surface is only shallowly eroded and we're seeing that because we're seeing other types of deposits that form in the upper parts of the ancient crust. So that really weakened Newfoundland and Labrador as far as for potential for gold and they developed the modern mine there, they operated it for a number of years, gold prices dropped, they eventually sold it to Peggy Whitty and Royal Oak Goldmines who operated it for a number of other years. In this new gold cycle, companies have been down there coastal gold and they've outlined again over a million ounces there but all of the facility was removed from it after the mine wound down during the last cycle and so that would be a significant event and also shortly after that, the timing was almost perfect because that was at a time when the federal government started to bring in the flow through exploration tax credit measures, took a while for the industry and investors and brokerage firms to get a handle on it but very soon within a couple of years you were seeing hundreds of millions of dollars of new investment dollars coming in because the high-end investor who would put in a few thousand would get a tax credit, a tax break and I mean that federal initiative which several provinces built onto generated several billions of dollars into the exploration sector in Canada and a lot of that money found its way into Newfoundland and Labrador, particularly on the island and you started to see like Narendra Exploration who had a large office in, well they were in central, they were here, they were in Cornerbrook but they really got involved with a number of junior companies and millions of dollars were spent, the prospectors they had and others, geology, numerous gold showings and prospects were discovered, the gold deposits of the Baywork Peninsula were discovered later in the 80s during that flow through push but it was the Hopebrook discovery which put the island of Newfoundland at that time on the map as a place where stand-alone economic gold deposits could be discovered and I remember Colin gave the talk and the auditorium at the Royal York, it was, I mean there was blocked and because it was a major and this was of course shortly after the great Hemlo find in Ontario and because that had its impact across the country and I remember back then we had, we were in one of the salons in the Royal York and so Newfoundland and Labrador had a booth, New Brunswick had a booth, Nova Scotia had a booth and we're all really in the same geological terrain, right? And it was a number of years later when we teamed up to form the Atlantic Canada promotional effort and at the booth after the talk it was like there were maps and open files and reports and it just brought everybody together. It brought a lot of excitement and interest to the gold potential of Newfoundland and Labrador because we did have a couple of small gold prospects or deposits but maybe several hundred ounces had been produced late in the late 1700s or 1800s or at the turn of the century but not a lot. Most of it was like at a place called at Buckins or at Tilt Cove and Rambler Place. As a secondary man. Yes, exactly, right? And then of course, well, you know, when you look at, I mean, there are many great discoveries and great minds that this province has had but the Buckins discovery by Matty Mitchell when he led the team of Anglo-Newfoundland Development, the A&D company surveyors and geologists on a place, on a river that flowed into a lake called Red Indian Lake and the generally south of Red Indian it was kind of like MiGMA territory and Red Indian and North and Northeast was the Arctic country but Matty Mitchell led the team of individuals to a place on the river where he had seen the glistening metals and this was the Buckins River discovery and of course that went on Matty Mitchell is credited as the prospector. We named our Matty Mitchell Prospector Resources Room. You know, that we developed at the department that I consider a major accomplishment myself and another geologist generated that a number of years ago and that's serviced and supported prospectors in this province and a number of the exploration companies for the last, what, 17 or 18 years now and but Matty Mitchell's the discovery of Buckins of course that has been, that's long lived also, right? Because that was amongst the highest grade poly-metallic zinc-lead copper, gold and silver deposits of their types in a volcanic oil and barric setting to be found anywhere in the world and those mines operated for well over 60 years by a sarco and there's still exploration there. There's, it's, it brought numerous large companies in smaller companies and prospectors into that area and that was, that was one of our, that discovery occurred in 1905. So we started, we have a presentation that we wanted to make to the, our association we wanted to make to the three political parties on steps that they could take. Modest steps, modest investments to reignite the exploration and prospecting sector in the province which is facing the same malaise as a number of the areas across Canada and part of that starts off with how in the last century the century began with a great world-class discovery and during the latter years of that century it ended with another world-class prospecting discovery the discovery of Noisy's Day and so in the late, so Larry and Emily talked to you about the course but back in the late 80s, early 1990 the government brought in the small modest prospector grants and as they say the prospector course which now to develop, you know that new generation of prospectors that we had which came together in the late 80s, early 90s and on as we go forward and minister at the, of the time in the Brian Peckford Progressive Conservative Government his name was Jerry Dinh and he thought it was a significant event we had started the prospector training course and the co-discoverer of Noisy's Day, Christopher Biskie used to assist Larry Hicks there in showing some of the participants how to pan and so on Chris grew up in an exploration mining family where his father worked at Buckins and this gentleman here who got an interest in prospecting he has a background in a small construction company and in finance with accounting diplomas but this gentleman right here, Al Chislett he gained an interest in prospecting by hearing about it he had long be outdoors and he has a passion to be successful in whatever he does and on a particular Friday this day I remember the secretary, this gentleman came in he said would Norman Mercer be available to see me and so she came down and she said Norm there's a gentleman here from the ghouls just outside of St. John's and his name is Albert Chislett he'd like to meet with you so he came in and you know he sat down and we talked all about prospecting we talked about the prospector training we talked about different aspects of our potential he realized I had a lot of enthusiasm and passion he had an intensity about it and I remember after about an hour and he wanted to start looking on the Avalon Peninsula and so he started now I said don't get intimidated you know by the maps and the words that I go to the reports I'm going to give you but I said just think about it as natural processes and so he went on I think within a week he had found his first showing but I remember when he left the office that day and it was a quiet intensity and when he left that day I said to the chap that worked with me as an information officer I said you know if I've ever met a man who will find the mind I met that man today I told him about that the other day because from that day he would call me probably two or three times a week or visit but then he'd visit with the Miranda geologist or prospectors and so on so in late 1980s early 1990 they were just bringing out a program $100,000 and they would issue out small prospector's grants up to I think it was $3,000 to $5,000 to assist with their gas costs of their assays bit of food and so on the first grant they said could you touch base and get Mr. Chislett to come in and so Minister Dinn presented Al Chislett with a check for I think it was $3,000 or $4,000 that was in late 80s, 1990 and just three short years later right on September night they land at a place called Royce's Bay and they returned to this province a multi-billion dollar venture Royce's Bay mine alone has contributed just indirect mining and mineral rights tax over a billion dollars to the treasury of this province since 2006 just that one mine and the other new mine so this is all part of our pitch to the that was a very modest investment $100,000 that are dished out to individuals around the province who were getting involved in prospecting and in those mineral development agreements of the 70s and 80s and 90s the approach would be and people like John Fleming or Brian Greene and Paul Dean and these they in the planning and management and execution of these joint federal provincial agreements for the island looking at the size land mass that if they could achieve over multiple five year mineral development agreements to map the island on a $1,000 to $50,000 scale and for Labrador one to $100,000 so as they say it hasn't been that long you know in terms of for those for those initiatives so Buckins of course the discovery by Maddie Mitchell he's probably he was the most name in prospecting within the mineral industry in the province because of the richness of those mines and their longevity and we named the Maddie Mitchell Prospector Resources Room of course after him we had his descendants come in and the minister at the time was Roger Grimes who went on to become premier to officially open the it's just a modest facility but it's got quite a large rock and mineral exhibit there resource materials there's a geologist there it's a joint industry government initiative the geologist who's there is actually paid by the Mining Industry Association and it's something myself and the other geologist was Sean O'Brien we we advanced the proposal to develop because they do a two week prospector course and you're bringing together a lot of people who have a lot of background some could have been fishermen there could have been professional people doctors teachers there could be skilled tradespeople but for many of them exposure to earth science prospecting or geology for most of them this is the first time everybody tremendous course the amount of information and methodology and techniques it's a lot and I remember one old chap said because he bore recent years it was more retired people because of our demographics right but one gentleman said he wasn't no he wasn't one of the older ones but he said you know Normie said that course he said is great it's fantastic for those 12 to 14 days the lab work the fields and the field trips and and Larry's excellent and the others but they said like the amount of information and to try to retain it it's like trying to get a glass of water from an open fire hydrant it's far with the amount of information and so for the reason for developing the matting Mitchell room was to be that support facility that prospectors could come to could email could phone could drop in and visit to refresh themselves on some of that or to gain new insights right because you just can't do a course and let them sink or swim but anyway so so those would be the ones in terms of those are good examples yes and then of course voicies Bay which would you know when when Albert and Chris first came in and we went over it on that beautiful fall evening and they hauled out the first samples and they were sitting there and they said norm you know what type of rock do you think it is because like nickel sulfide ores magnetic sulfide ores like Sudbury or nor real store the big ones or Manitoba you know this wasn't something that was common to our to our history in expiration and mining like volcanic mass of sulfide deposits and rusty gossams yes and so the rusty gossam but I said you know from what I could see like the samples they showed me were well mineralized samples and I said you know I said in terms of rock type I said looks to me like a gabbro I said an iron magnesium rich you know dark colored intrusion I said that would have been a magma plume coming up through the ancient earth's crust and it would have crystallized many kilometers below the earth's crust and I said so you're looking at you know what appears to be magnetic sulfides in an intrusive setting and so they said norm so and the streaks of calcopyrite you know which is a copper iron sulfide I said you're probably looking at about you know a two percent because first when they landed there after spotting the gossam from following up on their their panning and their tests sitting work for diamond indicator minerals and that all came about again as a result of chuck fifth he's discovered right when the millions of claims were staked all over northern Canada and in ancient Archean rocks and so on but uh so that was their focus when they went there they didn't have the most up-to-date geology map for the volleys bay area so when they were finishing up their river sampling and heading back to the Inuit community of name and as they came up and the sun kind of hit across that ridge and they saw this rusty orange glow and Albert said to Chris he said look you know look Chris there's a a gossam and the helicopter because they motion to the helicopter pilot to take them over and he said guys look we've got very little fuel left but it's at the end of the day and he said really I just got enough to get back to name so they just put a little X on their travel map yeah and they went on to that and then several days later they still had several several samples to get in the rivers there so they came back and they landed on Discovery Hill and Albert said to me said you know Norm in all that summer because it was diamonds which was the deal they made with diamond fields to get them in there but as two astute prospectors if they with their because they had two helicopters and two crews one in each right going from stream and river to do these samples but if they crossed over an area of quartz veins they'd land jump out grab a sample for precious metals if they saw a rusty gossam they'd land grab a sample and I remember Albert saying to me he said you know Norm in all that summer of 1993 he said there's only one place where myself or Chris motion back to the helicopter pilot to cut her off and that was where the place called Discovery Hill they landed on that gossam and in a few minutes started chipping and seeing blistering of metal and so what they thought first they were on was a very rich copper deposit and they followed out the gossam which goes off to the to the west and then falls out over a read book you can see it on google right and you can see how the it's about 30 meters wide and it dips out about 80 degrees to the north this this zone okay so they Chris wrote in his field book that day I remember he showed it to me he heard I was working with them and that they measured it out and so they felt that they were on a deposit of some 30 odd million tons of two percent copper so anyway we were going through the samples and I could see lots of pyrotite iron sulfide and there was lots of blibs there like the measles magnetite and I said you know but I said and it's funny because I had a corner office there in the eastern Canada building and the sun came across around the window and I remembered the petlite samples that Dr. Pappasick Steve Pappasick he was a Czechoslovakian mineralogist who worked that month he got a Czechoslovakia after the the run the Russians went in right well in fact he had come over before that but before it entered under a communist regime but he was a tremendous mineralogist and he had a fantastic collection from the beautiful you know museum quality samples from around the world but he had a couple real nice petlite samples from Sudbury and I remember the sun coming around and I was saying and I said you know guys I said Albert as Chris you know I said I can see another economic mineral here with the calcropyrite and Chris kind of you know an Albert kind of what was that you said no I said I can see another mineral and I said I can see a mineral I said it's petlite petlite I said yes I said I said guys you've got nickel and I said there's quite a lot of it there so anyway that excited them and then they quietly packed up the bags and left and then they wanted to go and talk with Bruce Ryan who was our geologist who had mapped the region and they did not stake a claim all right they did not stake a claim to one of the world's great discoveries uh anytime that fall of 1993 and it was early in the winter when they laid out the 200 odd claims over the footprint of Boise's Bay which is probably a resource value of some 50 billion dollars right you know at Boise's Bay and uh but anyway that's the story that was in Jackie McNish's book The Lady from the Globe and Mail the Business Reporter who wrote the book called The Big Score I was Corporate Affairs Manager then for our key and so she she used to call me and post questions and I would vet them by Chris and Albert and so she'd always run titles by me right okay and she said Norm she said you know I'm thinking and Friedland I got Friedland to come back he went on after that of course like Boise's Bay made Robert Friedland the International Finance here and co-owner of Diamondfields that made him a billionaire it made Albert and Chris two of the wealthiest Canadians in you know in the country uh their royalty was at a valuation of about 300 million dollars right which they sold a small portion to Altius created a strong junior company several other young geologists and then they saw they sold the remaining 2.66 percent to international royalties for 180 million dollars in cash and millions of shares plus they also had millions of shares in Diamondfields which went from a dollar 75 and then they split them and they came out at 178 dollars right per share but uh oh that was an amazing story right I remember many people said Norm you got to write a couple books but uh that was one of the great uh and of course we had a quarter of a million claim state you know because for me I always hoped and dreamed of the day that a great discovery would be made and we would gain the world's attention and Boise's Bay was that discovery put it back on the map put it on the map it put it on the map hope book put the island on the map for gold and then flow to really accelerated that and we've had a number of gold mines and there will be others and then of course Boise's day you know put us on the map and uh our key and they you know they they secured not only their minerals agreement the Labrador minerals agreement I told two premiers in meetings and one while he was no longer Clyde Wells and also Brian Tobin I said that if ever this province aspires for resource development deals I said use as the template the deal that uh Albert and Chris and their lawyer negotiated with Robert Friedland and Jean Boulle on the Labrador minerals agreement their part of the Boise's day pie and uh I'm not sure if they really understood what I meant but if you go in and delve into those agreements I mean there as I say Alcisa there's a very astute businessman and Chris is no slouch I mean they were both very solid astute prospectors and their lawyer of course was one of the best in the business so with the two-year management agreement and they knew at some point you know that whether it was one of the large Canadian companies or international companies well the first thing you want to do is to remove the prospectors from the picture manage the expectations just like politicians you have to try to manage the expectation and uh it was a unique set of circumstances that come together because if that was just a major that they had gotten the funding from to go to Labrador like it was a junior it was a chap who had a somewhat sinister somewhat flamboyant record Robert Friedland I mean he was one of the great international financiers several of the projects didn't go too well but after that well Boise's day made him a billionaire and then he went on to Mongolia and got involved with his company Ivan O Minerals with the Oyutalgoi the huge porphyry copper gold deposits and what he discovered you know extended and really advanced those and Rio Tinto got heavily involved there and in there and I remember well a number of years before I was the CIM Newfoundland branch president that was back in 97 during the Cabot Celebration and so there was that but then I was on like the technical program committee for years so that year we were talking about looking at a speaker right a keynote speaker and Boise's day was just now starting to be mined and well they were just taking the overburden off of the ovoid and I said well you know I said I'm going to go after Robert Friedland and try to get him for our keynote speaker and I spent six months well I said no I'm you know Friedland's not coming back here and I said well let's just see so anyway I was at it for six months right and the old trick I learned in Troutic right to draw in the big big fish so I played on his ego right you know because the thing that he loves right that he gets a great thrill out of it's not mining but it's having all of these having all of the cards in the deck in his hand and drawing these big players the egos and the falcon bridges and the BHPs and they all because I mean they had discovered a world-class deposit then the eastern deeps they discovered so I mean you know it was getting bigger and so you know the big nickel producing companies needed to have that asset and so he had all of them you know planned in it so because Jackie had called me and she said Norm I think she said I'm going to call the book uh in search of the mother load the road to Boise's day and she's a professional top-notch business reporter globe and mail and then she was on a number of the business shows but I anyway she eventually she changed it then she called it the big score big score right and uh oh but it's a I remember our minister of the Charles Chuck Fury and he said to me there one day he said Norman he said have you read the book the big score I said oh yes I said that my my children gave it to me for Christmas and I said it's quite a story isn't it yeah gosh he said it's just like an Indiana Jones move so yeah I said you know but I said mr fury there's one difference and he said what's that I said this is a true story right and I remember at the Royal York hotel and we had the Atlantic Canada rock rock rope and that was at a time again the industry was down right but is the glass half empty or isn't half full if there's one drop in the glass there's opportunity and so at that time we created the Atlantic Canada rock rope because you had runs we hear with an exhibit and several government people you had Nova Scotian myself ricks gibbons was there before he was minister and uh you know like the numbers coming at the pdac well I mean they were all just crying in their beer you know at the Hinko sweet or the Miranda sweet there was just so not a lot of activity yeah and so we went through the Royal York and we said you know well Bob stairs from the Brunsett Chloe said normally said I think we should try to combine he said I agree with you totally then we went and talked to the Nova Scotia chap and then we started and so between the three of us we put together what was called the Atlantic Canada promotional exhibit which would have government exhibits as a tanker but then prospectors place and so like the Newfoundland representatives that year was that was what just a couple years before uh noisy bay discovery so Albert Chislett was there Christopher Biskey was there with some dimension stone several of our other prospectors in each group and I mean we had and then the industry you know slowly started coming back and I mean within a couple years we went from doom and gloom to a world-class discovery Frank McKenna we had we highlighted by having a premier from each of the Atlantic provinces come one year one year and so uh Premier McKenna came the first year and uh I remember then the the Brunsett guys brought him over to introduce him to me they said Mr McKenna you know this is one chap here you got to thank because he was a key part of it all and so we had a grand chat he said your name is Mercer and I said oh yes I said I've got a brother in the Brunsett he said it wouldn't be Harry would it he said I said oh yes because my brother Harry like he was the guy in new technologies with NB tell and Premier McKenna saw that NB tell was a leader in uh you know uh fiber optic technologies and uh you know always then we had a great chat and McKenna like he stayed there the whole time right and he really pitched it now then when we had Premier Wells coming through I don't know if that was the next year here but that was and then the national media because an applied he was the slayer of Meach Lake you know so he brought with him and his press secretary was Judy Foote who just went into the liberal cabinet right but I remember each time when Albert would leave the room Peter Thomas he was with Macinam and Rosa one of the chats and they go over and they write on his posters going for half price because Albert was a real negotiator okay we took some prospectors to Vancouver a number years before to the Roundup when I said we accessed some funds Alches that went out there with three properties he came back with 1.3 million in assessment commitments oh right you know yeah his passion is to succeed and he does and he does yeah right and uh who was it who was it I remember their geologist who lived in Hope, Arkansas one March day and he called it was a beautiful day like this that was cool and christened at zero degrees Celsius and this chat called Mike McMurray the boys call him the father of Oisey's Day but he was uh Freedland and Bulls diamond field geologist eyes and ears in North America kind of sizing up areas as far as for diamonds or other opportunities and somewhere either in a journal or in a magazine or at a display he picked up something like a geological publication on the Archaean rocks of Northern Labrador and I remember the day he made the call and he called and introduced himself and he said Mr. Mercer he said looking at some of these areas in Labrador and he said you know we're we're looking at you know diamond potential and so on now around that time we had a couple of geologists and a couple prospectors because this was about a year or so after 50s discovery and Albert and Chris had asked me that spring of 1993 there was going to be you know because now that was the you know you're not selling cattle actually selling coyotes so PDAC the hot button item was diamonds so they had a big diamond workshop for all of the geologists and prospectors so Albert and Chris called me one day and they said no we're going to drop in we just want to have a chat about the upcoming PDAC and I knew like say as we developed the Atlantic Canada Rock Room like the Rita Plasket was the PDAC manager and so they said Norm there's a diamond workshop coming up prior to PDAC history anyway we could get into that that's probably block four well I said let's see so I got on the phone and they called PDA and I said to the lady there I said is Rita Rita and Rita Plasket she's the manager at a convention and for PDAC and so anyway so she got on I said Rita I said look I said I've got two aspiring I said prospectors sit near in front of me and I said they'd really love an opportunity to be able to take in that diamond course I said is there any way that you can get the two of them into that free of charge right so anyway said Norm just give me a few minutes so anyway a few minutes later back on the phone she said tell them to come out right so that was in the spring of 1993 so they went to that and they learned a number of things through that course that was right before the oh yes that was in the spring right before that was in the spring and this geologist had come up they sent up another this geologist and the boys had staked a couple of areas there that had some potential for copper there was nothing staked with regards to diamonds there had been a couple kimberlites discovered by by researchers I think at month Ken Collerson them there were a couple of non-diamond bearing non-diamond bearing kimberlites discovered in the McCovey area I think there are other opportunities there because you'll see that noted in recommendation amongst a number of the many reports because there was hundreds of million you know there was a quarter of a million claims staked over a year and a half you know as far as with voices I mean millions of dollars changed ends with people staking claims and flipping them and so on and they they there's five or six reports where either the geophysics consultant or the geological consultant refers to particular features or areas or anomalies that should be investigated for diamonds right in Labrador because as I say you've got you know sandwiched in that landmass a geological history of some three and a half to four billion years you know so its potential is immense yeah right but anyway I go on and on forgive me I have one last question for you did I get through the rest of them and um and that that is if you were speaking to someone much younger like a student for example yes what would be the one piece of advice you would give them or the one life lesson when you could give them and doesn't necessarily have to do with prospecting or anything like that but regarding their career or their futures well you know like say we myself and my prospecting partner Kevin Ryan and Peter Dimmel has come with us and we've all just put a modest amount of money into a small private company and we've got a couple of prospectors with us and a couple of young geologists and everybody's earning their interest through sweat equity but to anyone and like what I say to all those I was just out last week in the field and I had two young geologists with me you know we only we can only give them a few dollars but experience I only wish that back when I did geology because when I was there you still had that concession system as such those opportunities weren't there you get field trips and so on but to me as far as when it comes to if you're you know as far as life lessons life's too short uh life's too short not to pursue your dreams and uh you know in far as pursuit of a career it's got to be something that's uh that you enjoy mine was a passion and that's uh if you have an opportunity to chase your passions and those things that you enjoy pursue them don't be afraid to take to take a risk measure the best you can for us for earth science students I tell them all I got to do a lunch and learn tomorrow and I'll tell them you know get get a good solid education get a good solid grounding in the sciences but each and every opportunity that you have no matter what the task whether it's geological mapping or soil sampling or prospecting or trenching or whatever it is all that practical all those opportunities and because I have a son who has a disability uh that uh you know that uh for individuals today we're all blessed with certain gifts and uh you know nurture and pursue all those that you have and to do the best you can that's what my parents taught me to do one's best be respectful of all people and uh pursue your dreams thank you


Hello, my name is Rear Admiral Shoshana Chatfield. I'm the 57th President of the United States Naval War College. And it is my distinct honor and a privilege to welcome all of our visiting heads of Navy and Coast Guards here for the 24th International Sea Power Symposium in Newport, Rhode Island. This is a wonderful experience for all of the men and women here at the Naval War College and for these maritime leaders who have come together to discuss items of great concern to them and also great opportunity to them. It is a biennial conference that we have here, our signature international program, and we are just so happy and proud to be part of this great event.


I am sorry to interrupt such a auspicious occasion, but let me just say I understand what a rich culture, a rich heritage, a rich tradition, a rich history, not to mention great food, exists in India. Pennsylvania is a richer place because you, your ancestors, your children have chosen to live here and work here, build careers and families here. And I want to say on behalf of all of your fellow Pennsylvanians, you have made us a better Commonwealth and I want to applaud you and thank you for that.


We've got the presidency, where the president and deputy president sit, then we've got the cabinet, where the cabinet secretary sit. Now, cabinet secretary head ministries. Now, within ministries, there are things called state departments, and it is the prerogative of the president to determine how many state departments he needs for him to effectively execute him. So it means that we've got 51 state departments. So if you go to a ministry, you might find a ministry has two state departments, three state departments. And so for example, the ministry of information communication technology and digital economy has a state department of broadcasting and telecommunication. And it has a state department of ICT and the digital economy. Now, let me take you to the hustler fund that was launched two days ago. Umaitu mi ya kwanza mheshimiwa? Tu ambi ukweli? Ukweli kwanza, wachani semi nili atia, nini naji wakuna vidyana wengisana, wako in need of affordable credit. Especiali wale ma hustler wana fanya business ndogo ndogo. But the big story on the hustler fund is one, it gets rid of what we call predatory lenders. Predatory lenders nwi wala wase wana kupia kalo nivi, alafu wana kusumbua. Wana kusumbua kwanza na interest, alafu tena wana kufuatili naji yengine. You remember there were lenders who were harassing Kenyans. So hustler fund comes in to fill that gap. But secondly, the most beautiful story is that the numbers you've had are impressive of the people who have signed up to the hustler fund. But what is impressive is the repayment. Young Kenyans are repaying. It gives credence to the story that these small lenders are very diligent and faithful borrowers. So the borrowers who borrowed in the last two days. Fun enough I've started to pay back. I understand why they want to pay back so quickly. It's because you grow your credit rating. As you borrow and repay, you increase what you call credit rating. So kama uli kunaeza kuborombaka sotano, unaeza ingiza credit rating. Ya koi pandeju fiketao umbili evo evo. So the lenders have actually been amazing. The borrowers have been amazing in the last two days. They borrowed but they are also very diligent in paying back. Yes. So yesterday some Hashimia Babua we know was questioning the hustler fund. Likwana se ma the interest rate kiasi that's like defrauding netizens. What can you say about that? As you heard, the aim of the hustler fund is to work towards single digit credit. Single credit interest on credit. Why that is important is because I don't know what he might have been comparing it to. But when you think about the credit that was available before the hustler fund, it was extremely expensive credit. This in comparison is way better. But even more so we've got to also think about why there is interest on the hustler fund. Remember this hustler fund does not have a committee. It does not have people who are sitting in a panel vetting people. But it also has some little operation costs. There is infrastructure costs, there is the operation costs and so on. So I think the actuaries did their work in finding out what would be a fit for Papa's interest rate. And at times we do not just oppose to oppose. Atak baniyan imbaya na ambiwa ki atu cakeni dawa. So even as the people in leadership we've also got to choose what it is that we are critiquing. And critiquing is not criticizing. If you critique you put a build to that which you are critiquing. But criticism doesn't add value. Critiquing does add value. So as leaders we've also got to think of the things we are critiquing. We've got to think of the things that we want to put a build on. It's not everything that needs to be opposed for the opposing sake. Meshimiwa? Meshimiwa, muna presidenta me sema cbc is here to stay. We unatu kakwa model constituency mamba education especially on the school feeding program. I don't know what is your opinion Pia Meshimiwa kk and eza ungezea about that. I'll start by saying that the good thing about the Great South constituency is that we were ready either way. If they were going to go to the junior high school way we were ready. In the last five years we have built not less than five new high schools in five years. We've increased the number of classrooms in the Great South constituency. My biggest condensation with CBC was having an 11-year-old or a 12-year-old going to high school and having to deal with life with 19-year-olds, 18-year-olds. That was unacceptable for me and I'm glad that the report that the task force is returning. The preliminary report is telling us that even the Kenyans responding are saying that it will not be fit for an 11-year-old to be taken to a high school where they are interacting with 19-year-olds and 20-year-olds. So one of the good things coming out of the task force is that the young will be left to stay in young schools. But I've got to say that CBC has a place in the present and in the future Kenya. It's about the hustle economy that we are building.  So CBC does not give a dichotomy of disciplines where we give more prominence to sciences as opposed to arts. We need the artists just as we need the engineers. We need the poets just as we need the doctors. We need people who are in the soft subjects just as we are getting people in the technical subjects. So I think out of the task force we shall get many other recommendations that can be applied. Muheshmi, have you been able to interact with the CBC program? Maybe do you have children who are in the system. Mama, have you interacted with it? I've done homework. Nimefanya homework. Nimefanya homework. Nimefanya homework. mwa paranskulosa sanana wa toiwahao because when you take up a project as a dad with your daughter, as a dad, as a mom with your son and so on, it's also improving family time because as Heichi is saying we cannot leave our children to teachers only but the biggest thing we need to do as a country and most of the government and especially the ministry of education is to make sure that we walk with the teachers on this CBC journey so that the teacher as one of the biggest check holder gets the buy-in into CBC because they are the biggest agents of CBC to Siwacha Muwalimu Nyuma. Yes. Alright thank you so much for talking to us guys that was Mejmiwa, Asante. Great to see you, it is all the pleasure and the SPM keep doing the amazing stuff. Nimbuekse, Sikuzote, Nimbuekse, Aosiyo. Nakaribuni da Goreti South. Thank you. Asante.