Hello everybody. If it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly joining me as always my one and only co-host Tyler. What's up, buddy? How you doing? Fantastic. Good to see everybody. Good to be here. Absolutely. And also joining us for the first time on the show reporting live from the, the all points. I assume it's Jordan. What's up, buddy? How you doing? I'm doing good. Yeah. It's like to talk about some slaves and away from my, my pretty tissues, order, order elves and whatnot. So. That's right. It's time to fall to darkness. The ruinous powers have claimed us all. I realized tonight, somebody like tweeted in response, you know, will they fall to chaos? And I was like, I own every chaos army. Now, given my Nurgle Force was against my will and it's a very small force, it's, you know, only like maybe it's not even a full 2,000 points. But I mean, I have 13,000 points of Skaven and something like 9,000 points of slaves to darkness. So I feel like I'm, I'm, you know, I'm in the club here. Okay, I got, I got this, this is my home. I didn't realize it, but I have truly given way to the dark powers. So, but before we get to that review, of course, we've got some news. Tyler, what's up, buddy? I've been instructed to keep this under five minutes or less per. So let's go very quick here, folks. Remember engine? Of course, it's a 40 K thing. It's always a 40 K thing. Let's move on with our lives. Correct. You can tell from the machined bolt, as I told Tyler earlier, they don't have machine machined parts on AOS things. So this. Okay. Next. Check. We'll show this Friday at the US grand open finale. So they're doing a little preview show. They sent out an image. Looks like we might be getting the update to the baltome. We've been wanting spigots. I want to see the new spider kit. Let's do it. And any other goodies I've got. So 9 p.m. Friday, 10 p.m. Mount standard time of 12 midnight for east, east coast folks. 11, 11 o'clock for eastern. Yeah. It's two hours. Yeah. So, so basically 11 o'clock eastern cycle from there. Like 10 central and four a.m. or whatever in the UK and western Europe and that time zone there and five a.m. for France and, you know, west of the western Europe part. So, or eastern Europe, whatever. You get it. You understand. You know where you are. So anyways, yes, a lot. Like it's late. We probably won't do a show even when they do announce kits, which like they tweeted out that image or whatever. And it had all the glowing mushrooms in it. And it just couldn't have been more saying like, Hey, by the way, like at this point, if they don't do gets disappointment. Disappointment. Yeah. I'm at a wedding on Friday. That's the only reason. But I don't know. Tom is at that same wedding. So I guess anything's possible. We'll see. All right. What else we got? Good luck to everybody this weekend. Excited. They're going to have some coverage. So that'll be nice to see. They'll be streaming some age of similar games through their their more alive. So yeah, looking forward to that. And then warmer fest tickets are on sale. April 29th, May 1st 2023 Manchester Central United Kingdom. Looks like a pretty incredible event. Single day entry, 20 pounds, standard weekly weekend entry, 40 pounds, got a goodie bag version. Yeah, Vince, you're going to be there. I'll probably most likely I'll be there. Yeah. Like 95%. I should be teaching over in the UK either the week before or after that. So there's kind of no reason not to go to fest as well. If I'm already in the UK. So it's kind of meant to be aligned there. So yeah, should be good looking forward to it. Okay, that's it. I think that's it. Next. Next. All right, we did it. Okay. So next thing, pick of the week. Jordan, what would you like to share with everybody? I got to give a shout out to some fellow Battle Report creators, my buddies and all our buddies over at Rewrulling once who when I'm it's funny when I'm not editing or playing or filming for Battle Reports, I'm usually watching them while painting.  So I've been enjoying those. So I got to give a shout out to the whole crew over there. Very nice. I will link that down below. Tyler, what do you got? So a friend of the show, Alice, she did an in-depth review at Goonhammer, the slaves darkness battle tone, read that earlier today, really enjoyed it. And then I actually haven't watched this yet. I came across it just a little bit ago, seeing what else is out there slaves darkness. So this relatively new channel, I think it's relatively new, Swalhammer SWLE one word. They did a faction focus with Emma, Emma Mingles. So anything with Emma, I'm sure it's going to be insightful and fun. Yeah, recommend that and look forward to watching that maybe after our show here. Nice. Fantastic. Well, I will I will see your two picks with my own two picks and break form. So first off with one connection to last week's episode, where we reviewed the ogre battle tone, go check that out if you haven't yet and you're interested in ogres, also a very fun battle tone. And that would be if you're interested in the lore side, a thing we never talk about and will never talk about for the most part on this show. You can check out our good buddy two plus tough. Doug is over there just getting that hot ogre maw tribes lore right into your veins. That will be linked down below. Great stuff. Nice, easy 15 minute video. Get all the get all the knowledge you need about the maw and the ogres and what they're all about. At the same time, if you'd like a little review, a second voice about the marks and some of the stuff we're going to talk about tonight in the S2D review, our buddy Paul Conte over Radio Free Hammerhole is also very excited about the S2D book and he put up and he put up a video about that. So check it out. And I'll answer Nick Sakomano. There we go. Sorry, Nick, if I mispronounced your last name. Absolutely. We're pushing toward 100k. We can get there. I believe in it. But hey, if you just hit like, I'll thank you very much for that. So everybody hit like for to give your soul over to the powers of chaos. That's what I say. But yeah, subscribe if you haven't, we're going to jump into it. Okay. Awesome. Well, with that, with those picks out of the week, let's talk about some hobby time. Jordan, you mentioned watching their reports while you're painting. What have you been painting while you're locked inside the Varenspire there? Always too many things on the draw at one point. So generally between finishing up a unit of Sips Stockers for OBR, I'm about... You need nine, Jordan. I actually need 18. I know. I only want 18. I only have Sips at the moment. But finishing them up also halfway through a unit of 10 win chargers from Lumenath. The reason I've been bouncing back and forth between those is because Lumenath with all the trim is just honestly so painful for me to paint. I like to do it for two nights and then have to work to something else. And then between those things, also building and prepping to paint a ton of slaves to darkness, the new stuff all coming out. I just actually spent a night working on the Demon Prince and I threw big thick pins into his wrist and head so I can interchange all the different head options and weapon options. So that was really been doing that. Always too much on the draw. That is a lot. And also that Demon Prince, it's funny how much battery looks without the goofy head. Like they put the worst head on him in the art. Basically all of the God-specific heads are better, a couple of them better than those. I also saw our good buddy Doom and Darkness replace the head with like the O-Groid with one of the O-Groid Therodon heads and that looks like perfect. So I mean the point is there's a lot of good head options in that box that aren't the default undivided head which honestly is not great. He looks kind of silly. So hey, but four out of five ain't bad. I'll take it. There's even two undivided heads and the other one is much better than like you said the one they showed. You're right, you're right. Yeah, absolutely. Just like that was the worst one to assemble it with. And then, yeah, let's not, yes, agreed. Okay. I thought I had a lot of projects going, but that's a lot. Okay. And in proof that aesthetics is always personal, Mark says, I disagree. I love the main head. Hey, there you go. Look, that's, you know, different strokes for different folks, I suppose. That's always, you can never tell. Tyler, you got any hobbyin' done? What you've been painting, Tyler, now that you're in the club. I really got to get back on the horse. Been slackin'. Lot of games. Lot of games. That's got to count for something. I'm lovin' this book. The TTS. So, hey, all my thoughts will be in the show. So I'll just take it back. How many games have you gotten in so far? I have played six games. Pretty good. Yeah, not bad at all. Not bad at all. I have gotten in, I've only played two, but I also got to play against slaves once. So we'll call that three, right? That's still, you still had to see it in action. It's just, you know, it's a similar thing. Okay. All right. For myself, my hobby time, I dig at those games. And paint-wise, still making my way forward very, very slowly on the, on one of those Ogroid Therodonts, but he's for Golden Demon. But instead in turning to some video efforts this week, we've been painting up this guy right here, Mr. Little Golf Rocker, dude, because he's cool and fun.  And an orc with an electric guitar is the most fun. So I just couldn't help myself or resist. So he's painting that little guy up for a video. So that'll come out very far in the future. But yeah, there you go. I'm looking to get some more, more stuff going here very soon. But it's a lot of, not enough time in the day, it seems, unfortunately. And this, this traveling nonsense has to stop. Too many other things going on. I need to just sit alone in my house for like three weeks and paint, nothing else going on. So I, anytime that can happen, I look forward to it. It will never happen, but it'd be nice. All right. With that, gentlemen, look at that in, in near record time. 15 minutes yet. Amazing. We did it. Mission accomplished. Unfurl the banner. Here we go. Gentlemen, we're going to talk about Slaves to Darkness, S2D, the 2022 Battletome. As per usual, I'm going to hit my high level overview here. And then I want to go to you both of you for your thoughts on this. So here's my high level thoughts. This is a very different book than the previous incarnation. Unlike Ogre's last week, where when we talked about it, it was very much kind of a gentle evolution of the previous tome. This is very, very different. Now some of the units still might have similar ish rules, but the way that they work, especially as an army, completely different. We've moved away from bubbles and buff management into a sort of solo operator toolbox with marks enhancing certain roles where you want to have certain pieces in your army filling very strongly into certain roles. So away from the mono God build that you would have seen before as you were trying to keep everybody cornmarked to have your generals big aura bubble out to everybody equally or something because, you know, if they weren't getting the general or the heroes buff, who cares? They weren't getting anything from the mark. Now to sort of mixed marks for maximum efficacy. There is lots of good choices, but you very much can't have it all. I'd say there's pretty decent internal balance in this book, but there are there are some losers and traps in here for sure. For those who aren't aware, there was a day one FAQ for this, but there are still more issues remaining. Happily, my final two thoughts are one, the iron wall of chaos is back. It's back baby, the thing that with that I that I wanted and didn't have in the last book, like we just forgot chaos warriors and chaos knights and the mainline things are supposed to be interesting and good in the last book. Nope, those are back in a big way. It's a big time for those. And secondly, Johnny's rejoice for you have you have the book of books that has been placed in your lap. This is very much a Johnny book. Like I can't I cannot say that strongly enough if you love list tinkering and playing with stuff like that, this this is your book. Okay, there's my there's my speed run overview. Jordan, I want to come over to you first. What's your 40,000 foot view take on on this book? Do you like it? And what what have you noticed so far? Yeah, I think you nailed it with like kind of the the comments about that being a Johnny book. There's we went from or the book went from having predominantly two builds for the past couple years to incident like even with this within days, obviously, this has been there were images floating around a while before release. But it's like there were five builds that emerged that people were talking about commonly. Normally, there's always one or two or often the past there's always been one or two. But there's, you know, a couple more than others, but there's still I think a lot of depth to this book. And with like you said, with the number of war schools in here, there's endless amounts of tinkering and depth to it that I think, you know, someone that's really invested in the book can be exploring it for months and a long time to come. Yeah, absolutely. Real quickly, for those in the chat who might not be familiar with these terms to throw around a lot. Johnny, Timmy and Spike, what is Johnny? Johnny is wants to express something. These are psychographic profiles. Johnny is your list maker, your innovator, your wombo combo breaker. He loves interesting synergies. He loves taking units that don't seem good on the front and then making them, you know, really, really good due to clever play. And Johnny likes it when there's a lot of different pieces and parts that he can put together to suddenly ramp the efficiency way up to 1000 like that that he can see through the matrix to the code and build something that is greater than the sum of its parts. That's Johnny. Okay, Tyler, what do you got? Yeah, any specific questions for me? I mean, obviously, there's so much to say about this. Yeah, just give me the high level, man. Hit me. What do you do you like it? I love the book. Yeah, I mean, I think it does have a fair number of misses, but that's to be expected with these massive battle tones like Stormcast, right? There's going to be four scrolls that are going to be redundant or dismisses. So internal balance could be better. I think it's fair to say most of the sub factions are sufficiently attractive, not entirely sure about the spoilers, but I can see play for all of the others. Maybe you guys will have some thoughts on the spoilers help me figure out what we might be able to do there. The I think the external balance will be good. It's a melee centric army, most melee centric armies in the history of AOS, stay in check by the nature of what they are. Apart from that period, unless it's the early period of 2019. Yes. Yeah. So, which is a whole other topic. But yeah, so I, my guess, I'm curious what your guys, we want to make some predictions here on the win rate where this minded up. So like participation rate, player rate and win rate. I think the player rate will be pretty high on this battle tone. Once people start getting the armies painted up, there's so much you can do, so many cool models. I guess the win rate will be 49 to 51%. Kind of what I feel it or 48, 52%. So we're around there right in the middle is where I think it'll settle though. But yeah, it's an incredible book. I've been playing a lot of Kabbalist. I just kind of not going full hard just dipping my toes in like three heroes pulling the spells. You can still get a lot else. Love Kabbalist. Oh yeah, I can say more about that when you get into sub factions. But really well done overall. Jordan, you want to take a swing at some numbers? For one percentage, I would say I expected to be like probably like 50 to 55. Like, you know, probably sitting at 52, 53, which is a great spot to sit. I think just the, there's gonna be a lot of depth to it. But I think there is good efficiency just in the War Scrolls and stat lines alone that will allow your average player to win games just on the backs of good units, which is a great thing. And yeah, so I think it'll be above average, but nothing too crazy. Yeah. Yeah, the problem is it's very hard to combine. So like the only books that combine a large player base with a high win rate have auto win buttons in them. So like Sons of Batman, right? Johnny books don't hit 60% or 58% or something like that. They just don't because they require like the skill floor is too high.  So I do think you're right that there will be that this will have a high percentage on the player rate. I don't know what that means. I don't know where they sit right now. What high defines as probably I would assume like seven to 10% is high right now. That's what that's traditionally been a high number. Understanding that like if everybody split all armies evenly, it'd be like 3.5% or something like that would be the the average. Of course, that's not a real number, but still I mean, to me, it feels like it's right dead in the middle. It might drift slightly higher because you know, like that is to say, maybe you'll end up at like 51%, something like that. But that that feels like very much the range to me. I mean, it is a melee only army, as you mentioned, and like melee only armies for the for the most part, like melee only armies just have problems going, you know, getting out of control, because they have to go risk something commit something to win. Now there are some challenging scrolls in this book that might need a little bit of tweaking. But like if I had to make a guess right now, take both of these books on FAQ'd unchanged unpoints between like the ogre book last week and this book this week, what ends up at a higher win rate off the rip? It's the ogre book 10 out of 10 times. Okay, because iron blaster castle like is just way stronger. Like it's ridiculously stronger. It's too strong is the answer as we saw at just one sample tournament this last weekend. But that's a problem. Like you don't want list that restricted here. As you mentioned, Jordan, there's just so many lists that seem at least interesting to explore viable and we're talking about like from a competitive angle. When you broaden that out and you say like, well, I'm not going for the most competitive thing. Then then it's just like even wider, right? Like if you're just talking like middle competitive, it just goes crazy. So okay, other thing that stood out in my play my game so far. Command point, the lack of command point generation is a very healthy constraint on this battle tone. This book has a lot of ways that's wanting to use command points, starting with rally, you know, potentially on a five up right with 90 thrown or so that felt nice, that constraint. It was playing with warlord a lot to have an extra command point. Appreciate that. And it plays the fundamentals really well. Like it's one of those factions that can help you get better at the game in terms of positioning and counterplay, right? And it has the mobility to do that really well. Like the classic would be you put your, you've got two by six furies.  You put your ether wings out on an objective tip toe them in and whatever comes into them, you have a unit in place or units in place to counter attack, right? And so like it does that really well. And it has such good threat ranges on a number of units. It can do it especially well with chaos nights and baron guard and even chosen with the slanish command ability to run in charge. So anyway, I thought that's been really enjoyable and kind of how it plays the fundamentals well. I agree. And like Fabian had said, it seems like the list building is hard, but not the actual playing. If some list become very good, net listing could carry the army up. My issue is I think the playing is actually hard to win with this because like what you just said, Tyler is not, that's not push your models into the center and stand, right? Which is the bar we're talking about for SOB. Like you do have to use your piece as well. If you let like your knights get caught flatfooted and don't get them on the charge where they need to be, if they're not picking the right target, if they're hitting into something, they can just bounce and or get picked off very easily. Like they're not that tough, right? Even with a better save now. So like there are real, like you have to be using your pieces in a right way. Your stuff is expensive for the most part. There are exceptions, which we will talk about. Okay. Now actually, I'm going to start with a sort of different kind of slide here. And that's because before we get into any of the allegiance abilities and stuff like that, I actually am starting with just this buff overview. Okay. And the reason I wanted to start with the buff overview is because I think that it's really important to have this in a table form where you can contextualize this. Because otherwise, as you're reading, it becomes very hard to remember like, wait, which one goes where, what can I be stacking together? Now you can just read across and understand what can apply to what. So I wanted to kind of go through the marks. Now the only thing I don't have on here is the command ability that generates from the mark. The marks also each of them generates a command ability for the hero. We'll talk about those in just a moment, but they're less impactful when taken as a whole. The Slenesh one may be as a singular exception. But other than that, you know, they're kind of just like oftentimes ignorable, I suppose to a point. So all right, let's get into it. Here we go. Undivided. So the undivided mark itself, when applied to a unit, mortal and ogroid units gain eye of the gods. So this means like your knights and your warriors and stuff like that can gain eye of the gods and hence roll on that table and get those bonuses. You roll differently when you're rolling for a unit than you do for a hero. We'll talk about that in a moment. Heroes who are undivided get to reroll one die after you've rolled both dice on the eye of the gods table. So they're good at eye of the gods. Okay. Now there is also an ensorcell banner option, a unique enhancement. Think of it like mount traits or something like that in other books. Those can be applied to chosen chaos warriors and chaos knights only. Those are the only three units that can carry the ensorcell banner. I'm kind of sad that the ogroids can't carry that, even though they have a giant banner guy. That would have been cool. But here we are. Okay, one keyword. They'll be fine. Yeah, it's like it's fine. Like it's just it would have been neat. It would have been a neat option, right? Because it's kind of cool that you can like give them they gain the eye of the gods keyword, right in the first mark. So like it would have been neat if I could have then given them the undivided banner as well. So whatever, but it's a minor thing. So with the banner for undivided, you can roll two dice for your unit on eye of the gods and pick either one. So when they benefit, remember, they gained eye of the gods. Now when you roll for them, they get to roll two dice and pick either one they want, increasing the chance that you get the buffs you want. Okay. All right. The demon prince has a unique heroic action that they can use. And it's based on the mark that they happen to have. And for undivided, that gives them always strikes first. They don't just have the ability by default anymore. We're to talk about heroic actions a lot because I think this book is I honestly, I think we're down plumbing that well too deep. I like there's just there's too many heroic actions. There's too much going on as far as that goes in this book. And the war shrine, which classically can grant prayers, which the prayers are now locked, the unit has to have the mark as well as the thing. So you can't just like give the Nurgle prayers some rando corn unit or something like that. That's not how it works anymore. The prayer is mark locked. You have battle shock losses. So pretty underwhelming. Okay, let's just talk undivided abilities here real quick. Jordan, what do you like in the undivided line? What do you deserve? If anything, right? And where do you where would you use the undivided stuff just looking at these buffs in an army? I think the eye of the gods on, you know, getting out a bunch of units is that's a lot of fun. There's gonna be different kind of tech and synergy in there. And I think this, you know, great job is from the channel love slaves darkness, we talked about it a bunch. That's, I think he said it. I have the gods, I think it's gonna be one area that hasn't really been talked about a ton. But I think there's gonna be a lot of, you know, opportunity there to do some funky things. Yep, agreed. Tyler, what's your take on this? So expanding on that, the one of the last games I played rocking 10 chosen, which is going to be very popular. I think in a lot of list 10 shows are just phenomenal. So I, the TLDR is that by the end of round two, if I were undivided, like let's say Legion of the first prince, which I think is really great with undivided, I could have have could have rolled four times for that 10 chaos chosen unit by the end of round two. So the pregame candle conduit, they killed radical and when they killed radical as well as 15 out of 20 great guard or finished off the remaining great guard out of 20, they took an objective. Yeah, like that really stood out like four times with the banner rolling two dice on a unit 10 chosen stacking brands, whatever else they might be able to get. So I do agree with Jordan. I think there's some really interesting play there. It's that. And yeah, I dig the banner. Yeah, there's a prince. Yeah, good, good, please. I mean, the demon prince has issues, which we'll get into later. But yeah, it does. Um, the yeah, I mean, for me, I've found I've always been including a couple of little tiny undivided heroes in my list, just because of the the mark bonus where they get to reroll one die, especially my new favorite boy, we'll talk about in a little while the exalted champion of chaos, the exalted hero of chaos or whatever. He's he's the best boy, my new favorite little guy. And just like having lots of chances to level that dude up is actually really rewarding and fun. I think this will appeal very much to sort of a certain type of player who likes these kinds of RPG mechanics, because you do feel like you're just leveling up all your units during the the game, right? Reminds me of another thing. So there's a key sequence or with the eye of the gods table, right? You can potentially roll two ones and turn your hero into a chaos bond. Sure. That's a problem if you're going after a very easy battle tactic, all a sequel, which we'll get into from the book. Maybe I can save this for them. But the undivided keyword plays a key part of that in helping to protect your hero that you're rolling at a condo the spell for to give you that easy battle tactic. So I'll say more about that later, but I think it's really interesting in that context as well. Yep. I have not cast chaotic conduit once yet, because every single time I've rolled to cast that spell I failed. I've tried it in every round of every game I've played. It has never cast. Were you rolling a 3d6 to cast? Exactly. I was not, to be fair. I was just rolling good old fashioned 2d6, but it's not that hard of a number. It should have happened at least. I'm not saying it got unbound. Okay. I'm saying like the dice were just like, nope, this is not happening. Give up. All right. Just one of those funny oddities that stuck out to me. Okay. Corn. Our favorite angry boy, Mark. The mark bonus is plus one attack on the charge. You know it. You love it. Can't complain about it. It's solid. The banner, again restricted to chosen warriors and knights, is plus one to wound for melee attacks. Also seems pretty good. Not a not a bad thing at all. The demon prince heroic action lets you heal one wound each time you slay a model. Very corn. We all know how much corn loves healing. I mean, I am aware that that is an option on the table. I'm not sure it's the one pick people choose very often, but hey, here we go. And the war shrine is plus one to charge, which yeah, cool. Works well. Obviously corn is for the most part looking across this. It is your highly offensive mark, right? If you want to be, if you're playing by the ABCs, this is the place to be. So, Jordan, why did you play much with the corn mark yet? What do you think about this one? Yeah, that's the first one I jumped on like many people. Just the synergy you look at something at nights at the empty throne where you're all your mounted stuff gets to run in charge, gives you a lot more speed and mobility. And, you know, looking at things like, you know, hard to drafts with 10 nights and and verandar. Both of the marks are great for all of those. And the banner on the nights is, you know, is amazing. Just they'll hit on four. So, you can only get the data threes, but wounded on twos automatically is amazing.  But that's definitely a build that I think I'm excited for and is a little more linear, I think. Though still the same, like we talked about, there's still the same weaknesses of, you know, shooting and positioning are very important. But, yeah. Final flash, jump out. Sure. Final flash. No, the plus one to wound isn't when you charge. The plus one to wound is just melee attacks. It's all the time. It's not, doesn't have to do with charging, which is nice. It's just, it's just a flat thing that's around, which is cool. That's what's really strong about it actually, as a banner choice. Tyler, about you. Yeah, I'm not a whole lot to say here. I did a little wound. No, you could make him a wizard and cabalas, arcane bolt, another d3 mortal wounds, corn commandability, another d3 mortal wounds. Again, I don't know if you're going to spend a command point on that, but you could do some interesting like d3 mortal wound stacking, maybe spiked tongue curse, et cetera. But I thought that was kind of clever. But yeah.  I was down to it. That was like, I was digging as deep as I could go. Okay. The zinch mark. The general mark is a six plus spell ignore. Okay. Like, okay. Should have been a five, I think. That's, boy, is that nothing. The banner is a four plus ward versus missile attacks, which okay, that's actually not too bad. Depends on, you know, how much shooting is in the meta as to the value of that. Same with all of those banners that are like that. There's, you know, armies all over the place have like four plus ward against spells. And it's like, okay, well, how many, how many offensive spells are floating around in the meta, right? If a lot, then it's good. If low, then bad, it's pretty easy. The demon prince, depending on the turn you, you use the heroic action, it's either a two plus spell ignore, which that's a much stronger spell ignore I will grant or, or it lets you cast a spell or have a new spell depending on what happens to be going on with that particular character. And then the war shrine is neg one to be wounded. So neg one for things attacking that unit to their wound roll. Overall, I find the zinch mark the least readily like accessible, the last, it's the least interesting to me, but I don't think it's bad. Like if we end up living in iron blaster meta, then all of a sudden that four plus word becomes really strong, right? If spell doms continue to be a big part of it, and you see a lot of, uh, technados and, and stuff like that out in the meta, sure, then, you know, having some kind of spell ignore might be valuable even a six up. I don't know, but it just feels underwhelming. Like it feels like it should have been a five up spell ignore. That's, that's all I can think.  You go first this time. What about Yeah, I was going to say. So the zinch spell, the zinch spell that you get when you go zinch keyword, that's a huge part of the attraction of this in my mind. This is certainly, I think zinch is going to be one of those Johnny areas. People can lean into list building combos, interesting synergies. I mean, there's a number, right? You could have Legion of the First Prince. You have just take five basic chaos nights that go in with corn. They're plus one attack. They come out with zinch keywords through the Legion of the First Prince. And then you have a zinch wizard that relocates them. They're pretty good on the charge. So you can set them up. They have a, they changed one of their dice to a four.  Yeah, sure. That's, that's interesting. You can do things where you reposition wizards through that zinch spell that could be used. Theoretically. Theoretically. I could be used offensive. I mean, Cabalus can turn a lot of this on. It could be used offensively with endless spells, getting them out. So yeah, I mean, there's various tricks that you can do with it. I think it's kind of intriguing for the most part. Yeah, zinch isn't obviously attractive. Fair enough. Jordan, anything else on zinch? Yeah, I think the high point that jumps out like on paper is, is the four upward or one of the most obvious things at least on the banner. But two of those three units already have a five upward or against mortals. That's true. So yeah. So most effective here, though, on chosen that have, have no word saved at all. But it's still on anything else. Yep. I will also say there is a subtle thing I didn't list here that's worth mentioning with the zinch mark. And that is, if you're zinch marked, you can go in the silver tower. So it does open the door to the unit being being able to be put in reserve and then coming out of the gaunt summoners stick. Right. So like that's that's sort of a hidden thing for the zinch mark, but it is a thing. Okay. Nurgle. Oh boy. We're back to neg one to be wounded in melee. I'm not welcome back. Welcome back. Neg one to be wounded in melee from the mark. This, this goes back to like making your guys toughness five when they have the Nurgle mark. I mean, as somebody who's played Warhammer since the mid nineties, Nurgle mark was classically the one of like, Hey, did your army want to have some fun? Well, stop having that right now. Stop it. All of our things are egregiously tough and hard to wound as a class as the classic Nurgle thing. And it's back. So there you go. The banner, which is not what it says in the book, it is updated as per the FAQ is neg one to rent for melee attacks versus the unit that carries it. It is not the greatest banner in the entire world. It's just really, really good because neg one to rent is really good. It turns out the demon prince heroic action. This is the best one on the list, which is no word rolls for units within three inches. We'll talk about some ways about that when we when we get later on. And then the war shrine has the only offensive buff out of this whole lot, which is plus one to wound for melee attacks.  This will be a very popular choice for sort of blocks of chaos warriors, as you already mentioned, things like that. Jordan, you know, what about Nurgle Mark? You played around with this, this bad boy at all. Yeah. 10, 20 chaos warriors, like you said, might want to be wounded and yeah, made one rent. It's makes 20 blocks nearly unmovable. Yep.  I don't think there's anything more to be said. It's it's Nurgle is this like, I don't mean this in an offensive way to Nurgle players, but the Nurgle one is the most smooth brain of all of these. It's just like even more than corn. It's just, it's so obvious what you're supposed to do with it. Okay. Not that that's bad. It's fine. Like it's, it's a perfectly good mark. It's, it's quite strong, but not busted. Slinash. The Slinash mark is plus one to run in charge. Very classic Slinash bonus. The banner is plus one attack on the charge. So it plays interestingly with corn mark. Tyler and I have both talked about, we both played around with having like two by five chaos nights in lists, one of them being corn marked, one of them being Slinash and carrying the banner so that both units of nights are plus one attack on the charge, that kind of thing. The demon prince's ability is also plus one attack on the charge because we just ran out of Slinash things. And could it, by the way, could have just given her fight last, the inverse of the always strikes first. It could make somebody fight last, right? Cool. But hey, what do I know? I guess, I guess we're so scarred by that period in 2019 that Slinash is still in timeout. It's fine. Our day will come eventually. It might have to be like fifth edition, but we'll get there. And then the Warshrine, what's that? Ogre is our living life right now. They're, they're like, it's night, it's 2019 all over again. So yeah, absolutely. Somebody's having fun. Somebody's having fun. And then the Warshrine has a really great prayer. This is a true stand out for me in that they can, the Warshrine prayer, all those prayers are on a three up, by the way. I didn't state that, but they're all three up prayers as we'll see. Grant somebody a 3d6 18 inch charge, right? Where you can roll 3d6 and you can declare the charge to 18 inches away. Really great, really great ability. There are two sources of that in this book. The other one, which can be more universally applied, is also more limited into the units it can target, which is relevant. So this is quite a bit more universal. You mentioned like slanesh chosen earlier. Oh yeah. And boy, oh boy, do they love when that Warshrine prayer comes around their way. It's a great day for them. Okay. So now that we've kind of got this framework here, all right, now the people have seen this when we get into the individual items, we can spend a little less time on them later. And I hope this helps people because when I was reading through all the war scrolls the first time I was like, wait, how how much access to plus one attack on the charge do I have? Right? Like depending on what I what can I put together to get that? And the answer is one, right? It's one. It's never more than one. This is a blood stoker and blood secretor free space tonight, everybody. Yeah, I mean, we'll mention the corn thing. The corn problem. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll mention it. All right. Now let's get into the actual Allegiance Villies. Okay. Oh, interesting. I don't know what my time is because like Streamlabs just quickly momentarily reset. So give me a second here. I got to look at my actual time. There we go. Okay. I had to bring up my other clock. All right. Allegiance. The loop. So okay. We already talked about this is the marks page. We already talked about all the basic marks. Let's just quickly touch on the command abilities here. Undivided gives you a command ability at the start of the combat phase that you can pick an undivided unit and give them plus one to wound if their melee weapons are targeting an enemy hero or monster.  It is a combat phase command ability, which I already hate. Number one, because I always hate command, like, because I can be roared out of this. Okay. That's number one. And number two, it's competing with all an attack and all defense, which are still better than this by far. And three, it's then further restricted to where I have to be fighting particular types of enemies.  I will openly admit, but it's meh. It's fine. It's fine. It's a hot five out of ten. Anybody disagree? Nope. Not a fan. Okay. It feels a little, yeah, I don't know.  Yeah, sure. They're very strange. And yes, all that is correct. Final Flash. They have to be issued specifically from a hero with the mark. That's right. So you can't have, like, a unit champion issue these, which is kind of annoying. All right. Corn gets a command ability that they use at the start of the charge phase that basically gives the unit a standard two up D three mortal impact hits. Fine. Like it's fine. You're, you already meant my, my problem with this one is I'm not saying it doesn't have use cases. I'm sure it does. Sometimes you just want to kill like get as much wounds in on the charge as you can. Right. But my issue with this one is you are very command point starved. You starve for everything in this army. As a matter of fact, like as I mentioned, the heroic action thing, at least with command points, you can generate multiple a turn. Now, other than one exception in this army effectively, you can only do one heroic action a turn. And I got like five of those I want to be using every round, right? But this one just barely feels like it's ever going to actually hit the bar of like, yes, this is worth a command point. That's the issue. 100%. Yeah. It's like I said, if you are looking to do two wounds or even a wound, right on a key hero for a battle to something for a battle tactic, I for an eye gain momentum, like, okay, but it's going to be very situational for the most part, you're never going to do this, I would think. Yeah. All right, Siege gets a spell instead of a command ability, and it is called warp reality. And it is a very confusing spell, even after the FAQ. I, this spell is, okay, this is a tough spell to use. I'm just going to say it straight up, all right. And it has an FAQ question baked into it even after it's been FAQed once. So it's a spell of the casting by of six and a range of nine inches. That is very short. If successfully cast, you pick one friendly Zeench unit visible to the caster and remove that unit from the battlefield and set it up again within range of the caster and more than nine inches from one of the units. Also, it can't move. Also, they have to be within range of the nine inches. Okay, so yada, yada, yada. Okay. FAQ questions. What happens if I pick the caster? Sure. I remove him from the battlefield. It is now time to set him up again. How do I satisfy the set him up within nine inches of himself? This came up on one of the discussion groups. I pointed out the flavor text, which I know this is a rules as intended argument, but to me, the flavor text makes it very clear what they intended, which is that you're not doing this on the caster. So it doesn't really matter. I see you're just saying, if they do rule it that way, then yeah, they need to. Sure. I mean, by the way, I'm also not sure. I think the reading on this is that you can pick someone at any range. Yes. Right? So they can be anywhere on the board, but you're warping them back to the caster. Okay. Flavor text. Eldritch energy binds the sorcerer's allies, translocating them back to the sorcerer's side. Sure. That's like slam the case on the intent. The cool part is it can pull them out of combat. The problem is, like I said, it doesn't, nothing about it prohibits the caster from targeting himself in which case then what happens? A paradox and he, and he explodes, I guess the game over. But so like it's neat because you can grab somebody at any range, but it's kind of doing the opposite of what you normally want to do with a teleport, which is you want to pull somebody from somewhere around you and put them somewhere else, whereas here it's pulling somebody from far away and pulling them back to you. So it's, it's a little hard to use because the range doesn't limit the target seemingly, also probably worth an FAQ question because it just says visible to the caster. That's the only restriction on the unit chosen. The range only comes up when you set them back up. Um, I, yeah, I, I, Mitchell, that's one interpretation. Nine inches from nowhere is anywhere, but another interpretation is nine inches from nowhere is nowhere. So he cannot be set back up. That would also be a fair reading of the rules. So at any rate, it's a weird spell. I dig personally, like, I mean, I get some of the issues and these clarification, et cetera, but I love that it's the opposite of what we're familiar with. That's cool. That's clever. And I haven't tried it out yet. I could see some situations. This is going to be a little challenging to set up, but I mean, obviously the general idea is that you plan at events. So you move your zinch wizard, right? On one side of the table, and then you have whatever go in on the other side, and then you can relocate. So I mean, you could probably think of a number of clever uses as I mentioned casting, unbinding, there's clever things you can do with it on that front. Oh, I really love that it's oriented around trying to set things up in advance. Your opponent can screw that up, but it's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's bad. I just think it's, it's, it is sometimes difficult to use. Yeah. Yeah. You have to use it as much as a normal teleport. Right. Right. It is a little bit more fiddly in its use. That's the word I'm going for. Yes. But it's not bad. I don't want to make people think I think it's bad. I do not think that at all. I actually used it a couple of times in the game. I just played screwing around with different tricks. Okay. Which we'll talk about in a minute. Mark of Nurgle. Command ability at the start of the combat phase. Strike one. A friendly Nurgle slaves to darkness unit has to receive it after this unit fights for the first time in that phase. Roll a dice for each enemy unit within three inches of this unit on a three up that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Boy, if I didn't think the corn one was going to clear the bar of worth a command point, this one is definitely not clearing the bar because I have to, I have to choose it at the start of combat. Like what if that unit dies before they go? There's all sorts of, there's all sorts of questions this raises, right? Now hopefully that's not going to happen. Hopefully you know what happens. What if your unit kills the enemy unit and there's nobody else within three inches, like you just rolled well. Well then, like the number of situations where you wouldn't use this command ability or wouldn't risk it for the biscuit is so high. And even then it's a three up for D3 mortals. Like it should have been equivalent to contagion points maybe where they trigger at the start of the battle shock phase. Make this at the start of the battle shock phase. So if you got a command point hanging around, you got three or four enemy units coming to you. Why not? Sure. Yeah. The fact is start of the combat phase. Pretty, pretty useless. The only thing I'd note is that it is each enemy unit rather than just one like the corn one. So on the block of chaos warriors, whatever that are taking objective and your enemy throws everything into it. Again, very situational, but it's kind of cute here or there. Yeah. It's a good point. You're still Jordan. You're probably using all that defense, aren't you? That's kind of why I was thinking like it'd be nice to start the battle shock phase. But yeah, I had a turtle, a killing king and two sharks that came into main. I was like, I was thinking about, yeah, I was like, well, I'd just rather do all that defense. Or I take the best buff in the entire game, which is plus one to say on this, on this anvil unit. So you'll use it if you already have missed the shield and your opponent has no red. There you go. There you go. We figured it out. Okay. We can, we can find this corner. All right. And then finally the actual useful one. Okay. Ghost Lanesh. It's just running charge. That's it. It's just running charge. Cool. The only, the only thing that's ironic about this as the best commandability is that as we'll see, there's a whole sub faction that just more or less grants this to your army quite likely depending on your particular list build. So okay, but sure. Why not? So yeah, I mean, this gets me very excited about obviously chosen. We're going to mention a lot this year. I mean, so the average threat range of 10, let's take 10 shows and you'll see a lot 21, 22 inches. Get social dash, add one to run and charge. They have a banner that adds one to charge. And then you ought to six, right? Yeah. That's an extraordinary threat range, particularly as a counter attacking unit. You know, again, where you're playing positioning game, you're trying to be thoughtful and you can catch somebody out on the speed of a powerful unit like that, that can activate twice. Same principle, maybe a little less interesting on six Theridans. Can you do some good work with this? Yeah. I think it's pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's the good one. That's the bottom line. It's very much the good one. And it's very much in line with what the general mark is granting. That's one of the interesting challenges that like not all of these really align to what the mark is doing. I think there's no direct synergy there, but this one is like straight as an arrow, baby. It's like, be better at running, be better at charging, be better at, and then run and charge. It's just like, yep, this is everywhere you want to go. I want to go to there. Okay, cool. Let's talk about I the gods. I the gods is awesome now is the best thing in this book. I just mean like from a fun perspective. I'm not talking about competitively. This table is amazing. I love it. I love the expanded way you can get at it now. All right. So at the end of each phase for each enemy hero or monster, destroyed by a friendly slaves to darkness unit with the eye of the gods keyword, including those destroyed by an ability or spell, which is cool.  Anyway, if you make them dead, you get to roll. Good job, GJU. You make one roll in the eye of the gods table for that slaves to darkness unit and apply the effect of the result. In addition, everybody's favorite two words in Warhammer, if you gain control of objective previously controlled by your opponent, make one roll in the eye of the gods table for each friendly slaves to darkness unit with the eye of the gods keyword that is contesting it. So you can get into situations as Tyler recounted earlier, where you charge the enemy objective, kill a hero, take the objective and end up getting multiple roles for a particular unit, which is awesome. Okay. So that's fantastic. So good stuff. The eye of the gods table itself, as you mentioned already to your old snake eyes, turns into a spawn. You can also like basically what it actually does is the hero slain. You don't have to turn it into a spawn. So, ironically, that's a can. Like the actual rule is just the hero slain. And then if you want, you can set up a spawn, find whatever. Who cares? On a three, no effect. On a four, you heal D3 wounds.  And then we get into the good stuff. Okay, which is for the rest of the battle plus one to charge for the rest of the battle six of ward for the rest of the battle plus one rend to all melee weapons. For the rest of the battle, they become a wizard or get to cast one additional spell. However, if you're a corn unit, you get two shots at plus one rend because that's what this becomes instead.  So you get two numbers that make you more rendy, which is cool. 10 is a five up word and 11 and 12. You can either choose to turn into a demon prince or pick any result off the table if you don't happen to have a demon prince model or you want to.   So good times. That's the table. It's super fun. A quick note on units how they roll a unit when it rolls does not roll 2d6 like a hero. So obviously heroes push short the middle because they have a standard 2d6 chart now that can get affected by undivided where you can reroll one of the dice where it'll tilt it like this as opposed to directly over the seven. However, units roll a d6 plus two, meaning their results are somewhere between three nothing happens and eight plus one rend. Yep. Definitely excited to play around with this. Like Jordan said, there could be something really here and we haven't heard or seen a whole lot yet. So I didn't see what the community comes up with. I had a hero one game guys that was casting four spells. The first two rolls in the eye. I think he was already had two spells in cabalas. Eye of the Gods. Boom, boom. Got the nine four spells. Eat your heart out of L'Ariel. Amazing. Start rubbing it in. Yeah, I mean, this table is just called, did you want to have fun when you were playing worm or like again, I'm very much the person this table is designed for. I want to roll on this table all the time. I love this table. It is super fun. The first game I played, the last roll of the entire game was me turning a Dark Oath chieftain into a demon prince. I don't know. That's an incredible return on investment right there. I'm just saying. So great stuff. All right. Let's see. All right. If you do not choose to be a demon prince after rolling well, then you are the smelliest of spikes. Hey, look, I'm sorry. I'm not turning my Lord on Karkadrak into an inferior unit. Okay. He's too much. He is way too much better than a demon prince to ascend. He's going on the road of Archeon who has also turned down Dark Apotheosis more times and he can count. He gets one of those. That's like letters. Archeon and being offered demonhood is like getting phone calls about extending your car warranty. Okay. He gets them all the time. He's sending those directly to spam at this point. He's not interested. All right. Okay. Continuing. There are legions. We'll talk about them in a minute. Good stuff. You get two new heroic actions. A note on these heroic actions that I am going to say because I have noticed many people make this mistake, including me. Initially when I read it, I missed this too and was corrected. I noticed Paul made the mistake in his video today. It's okay. It's an easy one to make. You can only carry out these heroic actions with heroes who have the eye of the gods keyword. So even though draw on power doesn't say anywhere in there that you have to have eye of the gods in the thing like pledge to the dark gods does, you do have to have eye of the gods because that's what this area up here says. So no drawing on power with your gaunt summoner, for example, or with Archeon or whatever. Okay. Really gaunt summoner doesn't have eye of the gods. So wow. Okay. No, he's already one of nine chosen of each. That makes sense. Eight now, I guess, because one of them died, I think, permanently. I believe one of them got permanently killed. Eye of the gods. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there's not that many of those dudes around. They're very special. They show up all the time in armies and stuff, but they are very unique people in the world. Okay. So pledge to the dark gods. Pick one friendly slave's darkness hero with the eye of the gods keyword until the end of that turn. Each time you're on the eye of the gods table for that hero, you can roll three dice instead of two and pick any two of the dice you roll to your score. Obviously, when combined with your undivided mark, you are ready for some hot rolls, baby.  Challenge is this is very hard to use. You need to know for like, you need to, you're blowing a heroic action on it. That is an extremely limited resource.  Okay. All right. Now, draw on power is pick one friendly slave's darkness wizard again, who would have to have the eye of the gods keyword until the end of that turn when making casting rolls with that wizard, roll three dice instead of two. However, if the unmodified roll on two or more of those dice is one, the spell miscast and the suffers D six more to win instead D three. Okay, Jordan coming over to you on these heroic actions. Do you like them? Do you think they are valuable? Have you used them or have you seen them be used? Yes, I love them both. Honestly, I think touch the dark gods. Like you said is situational.  So that's great. And then draw on power, I think is the opposite where it's this one is great every turn. Right. In my mind, especially like they're they're great, you know, slave spells in the lower and on worse rules. And even like on a humble sorcerer lord with an arcane tone, but it's not it's not his first cast is not one cast. It's when he makes casting roles, right? So if two cast wizard, he bought them on 3d6. That's very strong and an army that doesn't, you know, didn't traditionally have a lot of, you know, spell casting buffs. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And I will say I am not afraid of that two or more dice or one thing, like at all, like, who cares? Who cares? Who cares? So a good trick with that is retinue.  You are not a scaven player. You do not have the soul of a scaven. If this minor risk scares you, then then then like you need to get the heart of the scaven. Okay. This is a huge bonus. And on the what? Okay, Tyler, I mean, let me ask you a question. An enemy has just hit you with a d6 damage ranged attack. Way too common, right? What damage do they roll every time? Obviously a one. Obviously. So who cares? It doesn't become d3 plus three. It becomes d6. Who cares? Just roll a one or two. Whatever. Before I was rudely interrupted, by this nonsense, retinue on chaos warriors or scroll. There's no limit right now on the number of chaos lords. You can have the same chaos warrior unit either retinue for a Kabbalist. I've been running two chaos lords, one Sork Lord, have spells with arcane tome, rolling a lot of nines on the eye of the gods, six, seven spells. Feels so good.  Why not? But yeah, I feel like you're you're you need to believe in yourself more. Like who cares? That's such a such a non downside, whatever. I take much bigger risks in scaven for much less reward. And it's fine. 50% of time it works 100% of time. Okay, let's keep going. All right, command traits. All right, so these are divided into demon princes who they really, really want to be your general. Okay, like they really in this army want you to take a demon prince general a lot. And normal everybody else, which by the way demon princess can also select from the normal stuff too. So whatever. Okay, death dealer. Once for battle in the combat phase, you can fight for a second time, but you strike last eye of the god or favorite of the pantheon, you get to roll an eye of the gods after setup one time. Arch sorcerer, you know all the spells. And I dollar Lord the most what will be one of the most popular choices. This general becomes a priest. We could have stopped right there. We just got to stop right there and it would have been amazing. But we're going to keep going. In addition, you can choose to replace the undivided keyword on every undivided cultist unit in your army with one of the God marked keywords and all the cultists units get the get that and it has to match your general. So if you want all corn, let's let's just I'm a complete hypothetical total just out of the blue out of the ether idea. Let's say you're running a ton of snakey boys. Just the cultists, right? The snakey boy cultists. No reason to just I'm just I'm just this complete hypothetical.   Sure. Then you just make them all corn. And in addition, your your your general is also a priest, which is cool. Snakey boys is splintered fang by the way. Yes. Okay, so there's those. And then demon prince is not to be denied my favorite command trait with the worst sentence structure in its not to be denied. Is this like Yoda's command trait? Like what is going on here? In each hero phase, once you've carried out a heroic action, if you did not carry out the heroic action with this general, you carry out an additional heroic action with this general. The heroic action carried out with this general cannot be the same as the other heroic action you carry out in this phase. Very good. Very, very, very, very good on a demon prince. And yet again, as this is another thing where they're like, Hey, don't you want to make the demon prince your general and get two heroic actions? Heroic action is pretty good in this army. You know, so it's okay, got it. Bolstered by chaos, add two to this general's wounds characteristic. In addition, this general becomes a monster. So if you want a monster, steam and prince, you can do so. Radiance of dark glory heals some of your other units kind of it's not worth it. And diabolic mastery, undivided only once per battle. When you carry out a heroic action with this general, you can carry out any one of the heroic actions on the war scroll, even if it is not the required keywords. No pass. If that's a thing that interests you, you should just be playing Legion of the first prince. So that's a hard swap. But the two on the left are okay. The two on the right, you ignore. All right, Jordan. Command traits. Question one, what are these do you like? Question two, are you still taking master of magic? Most times, yes, unless you you're not taking it. I don't think a demon prince is, you know, they're strong as they used to be. But if you really want to take a demon prince, then not to be nine is a really good one. If you are taking that corn demon or sort of the nerdle demon prince and you want to divert those wards, then that's great. It's going to be situational, but it's a direction that you could go visibly. Outside of that, like death dealer and eye of the gods, the favorite of the pantheon are both cute. Yeah, that's exactly the right word. Yeah. But exactly that. It's like, they're not going to be as good as you want them to be, I think, right between fighting it like the fight last or the strike last for the attack twice and yeah, right, right.  He doesn't get removed usually in one pass, usually. But like I dollar Lord will be a popular choice to me and not to be denied will be a popular choice. And for the Timmy, you've got bolster by chaos, which is great. Like I'm as as a as an avowed Timmy, I have played a bolster by chaos guy will talk you actually can take a lot of these command traits as we'll see in a little while through one of the sub factions. If you really love these, you can just go ham. It's not a very good choice, but it can be done. But it can be done and yeah, so something. Monstrous actions are amazing. They are exactly. Yeah, counting as five is good, right? Like it's good stuff. Being a monster brings a lot of benefits when you're also a hero. Adding to your thought, Jordan, that was my main sense as well, not to be denied to open up more optionality in the toolbox in general with Nurgle Prince to where again, I've gotten a lot of games with Cabales. I'm not going to be shutting up about Cabales anytime soon on the show. But I so you know, looking to set up the combination of okay, not to be denied allows me to both have my cake and eat it too, because I can have the play to turn off the ward and draw on power is to power up demonic power to power up demonic speed, right to help me deliver the punch that I need against what I'm trying to take out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you guys have said everything. Yep. Okay. Cool. Artifacts. We actually have three groups of artifacts here. So Slaves of Darkness heroes, wizard heroes, and then demon princes. The heroes, the regular, the generic any old heroes, including, by the way, wizards or demon princes could also take those. Has two, I think that are worth at least talking about for a moment, which is Helm of the Oppressor, no inspiring presence, no rally within six inches. And the Conqueror's Crown enemy models with a wound characteristic of one or two within six inches of the bearer cannot contest objectives. Do you like either of these, Jordan? I like them, but again, they're just, I think, too situational for regular use. You know, I think the team tournament format has become a little more popular, which is amazing. And I think if you're playing in that kind of a space, these get a lot more interesting, where you're trying to play into certain matchups. But I think if you're, you know, for, we're always comparing it to the Arcane Tome, right? To take up an artifact slot for something that you're going to use in a third to half of your games, if you're, you know, at best, it's hard to justify. Yeah. Yep. My problem with the Helm is it's too short range. If it was 12 inches or something, I'd be like, yeah, okay, this is way more interesting. But frankly, you've got a better way to shut off those two things in this book through taking a unit and not one of your precious artifacts slots that that unit also plays double duty and does other interesting things. And the Conqueror's Crown, the issue is there's just not a lot of one and two one models running around. I was going to say, post bounty hunters world, they could get a level or training, but yeah. Right. Yep. All of the escalation veterans are sort of an endangered species right now, still for the next month or so, probably. I guess Lord on demonic mount, not going to do a lot of damage, but he's pretty efficient at 170 in terms of his cost. Give him this, you know, he can go off on a solo mission and really cause some problems for your opponent in a post bounty hunter world, where there's going to be more one to two one models on the table. So yeah, it's probably not right now, particularly when in sorts of banners are so attractive, especially if you're not in host of the ever chosen already. So it's just the slots fill up a lot. Yeah. Tyler, you've been playing Cabalus as you've, I think you mentioned that so I'm just going to let you tackle the wizard thing. Are any of these, would you take any of these over arcane tome in your Cabalus army or any of these doing anything for you? I do think that the wizard, the spellbomb matchups could be challenging. I haven't yet played against Teclis or Zeench, right? So it is interesting to look at infernal puppet, screw with Teclis to screw with Kairos. Is that even doing enough? Maybe not. You don't really have a reliable way to get to them in the first place with this army. You can do some range damage through spell through endless spells, but the most part you may lay so long and short of it probably not. Yeah, you're probably just putting some wounds on that they'll then just heroic recover or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Now the demon prince is I think do have two artifacts worth discussing and one that's been FAQed and is still bad. So the helm of many eyes, if you really, really want the strike first effect back on your demon prince all the time and don't want to rely on the heroic action, fine, perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with it, like strike first is strong, especially because it's not relying on the charge or anything, you're just your ASF, which is good. And then the doombringer blade, which I actually don't hate at all. At the start of the first battle round after setup is complete, but before the first turn begins, you can pick an enemy hero or enemy monster on the battlefield if you do so, add one to wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly units that target that unit. Interesting point of that is that it counters the Nurgle mark. So in a mirror match, their their their big hero will actually be wounded normal. And I mean plus one to wound for your entire army against some piece you're trying to kill. It's not a bad it's not a bad artifact. Like it's there are oftentimes a single thing that you very much would like to see destroyed. And putting plus one to wound for your entire army on that thing is not bad. Pretty good, dude. I didn't really thought about that one until right now that you pointed out. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, counters the Nurgle mark in the mirror. So it's fine. It's worth noting that seems to be persistent beyond the Demon Prince's life. Yeah, it just it just is like once you put that on there, it's just that's it. It doesn't like they don't have to be present for that buff to occur. So the Demon Prince gets picked off who cares they've done their thing. So yeah, basically they get your curse them and they just that's it. That's their life now. By the way, cool piece of art down here. It's kind of like if they kind of faded it out to this high opacity, but this is like a cool looking Demon Prince. So just a neat thing. I always want these artists work really hard on this stuff. And I don't think people ever really take note of it. They just kind of read over it. But I notice you cool artists who's working hard. I want you to know that. Okay, one more artifact. No, we don't. So hey, I've got a I think it's kind of interesting. Again, it's edge case. Oh boy. All right. Yeah, I'll take 10 minutes to go through this. Okay, well, the thought is it's like Ghostmiss, right? Ghostmiss can potentially help keep a unit alive from shooting shootings, the thing in this game, Vince Ventrilla. It is blasters, long strikes, 15 bow snakes, double tapping. Sure. You can control drops. You could set up potentially I mean, it's edge case. Have to have terrain on the table cooperate to put enough terrain on your tables, please. Like Jordan does. I've seen his tables. You could get some value out of this, I think it does. Yeah, it's in your hero phase. So I hope you were winning the drop war there. It's for battle in your hero phase. Yeah, exactly. You have to win the drop war. And I couldn't know. But notice, Tyler, your list was nine drops. So tell me again where this is going to where this is going to be applying. I've got one drop on Saturday, but yeah, fair enough. Cool. Moving on. It's bad. Okay, the lore of the damned. I mean, my quick read of this from the lore of the damned is two things rather than going spell by spell. My read of this is three of these spells are good. One is situational and one is like exists. Okay. And the they are all short range. Like this is a 12 inch range lore period. They're all like that. And so, you know, you need to be very aware of that when you are looking at your spells and like this is the thing that's still holding you together into smaller bubbles. It's actually why I don't love the spellcasting in this army, despite the fact I really do like the spells. This army very much has an independent operator feel in a lot of how it can work.  Like because sometimes you will be, by the way, of course. So that's my only issue with it. Jordan, what's your what's your take on the lore? What are your spells? What's your like, if you're if you were to gonna like rank these, you don't have to do the whole thing if you don't want, but what's your what's your kind of how you looking at these? Oh, as mentioned, I'm a huge cavalry junkie. So demonic speed obviously jumps out huge. Yep. I agree that the range is limited. But I think with that kind of spell, you're only going to cast it once or twice.  I'm not too worried with the spell range there. And then finding damnation, obviously amazing, giving something strike last. And the chaotic conduit is fun for the I have the gods one. So I think those are the three that you kind of probably alluded to as well. You nailed it exactly. Yeah, exactly. Tyler. Yeah, we're missing it a little bit, but chaotic conduit great for a battle tactic, again, especially a certain sub faction that gets 3d6 to cast, which master magic, you're going to be reallowing that most matchups, you should get that optically. If you're high drop, you're given first turn a lot like I've been, and I just put my dudes out of unbind range free battle tactic. So yeah, a whole lot more to say. Yeah, it is. Like the whole small bubbles doesn't lean into the counterpunching style with this. Yeah. And if you've got multiple casters and cabalas, you can spread the love around, you know, double up on demonic speed so you can have a little bit more coverage in your range of the holy within 12s. But yeah, it's it is a little unfortunate. I get why these are pretty good spells. They are. Yeah, notably, by the way, we've hinted around it, but I really want to put a fine pin on this demonic speed gives you a 3d6 charge, you know, being able to declare from 18 inches away, all the good things. But it is limited to slaves to darkness units that have a mount. Yeah, very easy to forget. Fortunately, there are a lot of good mounted things you would want to give that to in this army. So it's not that big of a restriction, but you know, you can't use this.  If you want that, you've got to go to the war shrine and may mark them Slenetion and pray about it. Okay. The banners, we already talked about all the banners with one exception. There is one untyped banner. Again, these can be given to chosen warriors or knights. And the untyped banner is the blasphemous icon, which is while this models in the battlefield subtract one from chanting roles for prayers chanted by priests that do not have the chaos keyword. I would love this banner so much. And it would be my like strong second pick. If it just said chanted by priests by enemy priests. But because it says priests that do not have the chaos keyword, many of the priests in the game, I would want to be causing penalties to have the chaos keyword. Sure. Turns out there's a lot of dark priests roaming around the world. You know, now look, it's not all of them.  For the seven people who play those. So really three free role on the relic door instead of the two free role. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Take that relic door. But you know, it's like the fact that it has chaos says that's not the that's not the one I'm picking. I like I end up to me then if you're going to take two banners, it ends up being like the eroding icon and the screaming flesh or something like that. I've been in a lot of intense shows in with better screaming flesh coming in hot 21 22 inch range, 41 attacks, potentially fighting twice at just phenomenal. And yeah. Yeah, they like the cars, the cars that go boom. Yeah, it'll it'll make it'll make things disappear. Okay. Let's talk about the legions. Okay. Host of the ever chosen has been FAQed as part of the day one FAQ. And it is actually your chaos chosen nights and warriors. So the same list as who can take the banners effectively rally on a five up. In addition, you do get to pick one additional in source of banner enhancement for your army. So you get two banners straight away. Okay, cool. Let's let's do this. We're going to give each of these a letter grade. We're going to have each one a letter grade not compared to each other. Okay, we're just going to give them a letter grade on their own how'd they do. So Jordan, where are you giving this? This is getting an A, B, C, D, and A for sure. A for sure. Hard A. All right, Tyler, where are you at? Hey, yeah, solid with the change. Yeah, five plus is fine. This army, as we've said, has a CP challenge. If you're using CP on rally, you're getting hurt elsewhere. Oh, yeah. Okay, I'm going to give it a B plus. It's trying real hard. I like it. It's good.  That's the only thing that knocks it down. Just a few little points. B plus is still very good. Very viable. I think you see it. Okay. Legion of the first prince. At the start of your hero phase, you can pick one Legion of the first prince undivided unit and then pick one of the following marks of chaos keywords, corn, zinch, nergal, or slanish. That unit has that mark of chaos until the start of your next hero phase in addition to the undivided mark of chaos. So in this case, you actually get both unlike the I dollar Lord where you were hard swapping. Here you still count as having both. Okay. And then note, if you pick a wizard unit to have the zinch mark of chaos, it knows the warp reality spell until the start of your next hero phase. Okay, cool. Fair enough. All good. Infernal servants, allied bloodletters, horrors of zinch, plaguebearers, and daemonettes. Units benefit from the mark of chaos battle trait as if they had the slaves of darkness keyword. So they get to be like, your bloodletters are plus one attack on the charge and your daemonettes are plus one to run in charge and it doesn't matter because they're all bad right now. So who cares? Like infernal servants is just if some lorem texts at this moment because like even like plaguebearers are good in their own army, they're bad without their five up, disgustingly resilient. Horrors are not great in the age of bounty hunters and so that becomes extremely problematic and bloodletters and daemonettes are bad. So I don't know what else to say there. All right, Jordan, what's your letter grade on this slash any other thing you think about it? What do you think about Legion and then what's your letter grade? I think this is interesting. There's a lot of depth with the the marks in that being able to kind of add marks. I think this is something like you really have to have a plan going into it with the units that you have and all that. You're planning this out for mist building because it's not something you're just going to be you know swapping on the fly. You're joining with a strategy with the units you pick. Isn't it a good or bad thing? I think it's just a little you know more complicated, definitely more complicated. So from like a simplicity I don't think you know perspective we're not going to see this one as much as the others. So maybe like a B minus C plus not because of strength more because of functionality, I would say. Yeah, talent that a B I think the infernal servants box it down entire letter. I'm very intrigued again from a Johnny angle. I haven't thought enough about this one yet and what are some of the combo synergies this building looks like etc. But I the community is going to figure out some cool things with legion of the first prince. I mean there's some fairly obvious combos that can do you know mention one the basic like five chaos nights example take a hammer unit that you want to go in and then get them out of dodge through zinch for example. But it I love the adaptability of this. Is it enough to have it be one unit? I'm not sure. May not be quite enough. Anyway, I'm definitely intrigued by this one and I think it'll see some play. But yeah, it's not gonna be as popular as some of the other straightforward ones. Sure. So I actually played legion on Saturday. I took the whole legion of the first prince kit exactly what you would expect the army to be. So old bellicorps at the head it turned us back in him up like the whole the whole shooting match. And I went because I was going against Archeon. So I was like, well, we got to have this show down that makes that just makes sense. And the that but it was ravagers Archeon by the way, which we'll get to in just a moment. And I will say originally I was pretty down on this because you can only pick one legion of the first prince undivided unit and then use those marks. It was crazy the versatility that actually gave me in the game. I was beyond impressed by my ability to just like tilt into different marks to do what I needed to do with that specific moment. So I agree with you, Jordan, in general, you'll probably have a plan. But at the same time, like I needed it was late in the game. I had basically no units left. It didn't go well. I'll just say this, but I managed to give a good game. It took until round five for him to be me. Okay. And even then I would have won had a turn is come back. I'm going to state that I didn't roll the aid up and it turns didn't come back and I lost. But anyways, I had a demon prince up here in the corner. And there was a unit over here with like one wound. Like imagine my screen is the table, right? Is it the hell of a distance, right? And I the only the only battle tactic I had left I could reasonably achieve was this one's mine and the demon prince is my general. So I tilted slanish. Okay. Now I'm plus one to run in charge and can run in charges command ability. I had nothing else to do with all my command points. So she ran six, hence ran seven. So she goes 19 inches across the board, right? And then charges 11 inches more and catches that unit. Okay. And kills that unit to complete this one's mine from just like downtown, right? And I like the ability to tilt into the mark did that. And there were other times throughout the game, every round, I was like, Oh, cool. If I tilt this mark, I can do this thing. I can remove like the nergal mark. You know, like, Oh, I need to get rid of these word saves at this moment, the ability to just tilt into the nergal mark on your demon prince and then use the heroic action. Right. Suddenly you're just like, Okay, that word save thing isn't a problem anymore. Right. Mm hmm. Getting excited about leaking. Yeah. And I think we're only on two sub factions, but already I think it's like vastly different play styles between these sub factions like like Legion and how even from that, how techy it can be that I think just this book is such a hit. Final flash. You are correct. It wouldn't matter. I way over charged the person, but like I got way past them with the edge wasn't necessarily you're right. I messed that up. Thank you. Uh, at any rate, uh, so yeah, I like, I just found it so interesting and like actually tilting into the zinch mark to just like warp reality when I needed to. That was when I was using warp reality. Right. It was like, Oh, this, this, this person who's, who is carrying around a book, right, is just going to tilt the zinch. And suddenly it's just like, pull somebody over and reposition them. Right. But I didn't, it wasn't like hard committed to that thing. Okay. So yeah. Interesting. Okay. Uh, Cabalists. Uh, all right. This one's crazy. Here we go. Cabalist heroes become wizards. Cain tones for everybody. We could have just stopped there. You get an arcane tone. Now arcane tone is the best artifact. As we've said, wizard is one of the most powerful things you can grant to anybody in the game. Cause just be by becoming a wizard, you get the most powerful spell in the game, mystic shield. So let's just make everybody wizards. And if the hero is already a wizard, they can attempt to cast one additional spell and know one additional spell from the lore. In addition, if you carry out the draw on power, heroic action with a Cabalist hero, you can immediately carry out the same heroic action with each other Cabalist hero within three inches, which won't happen a lot after sort of the first turn, or unless you're kind of really moving in this little castle with maybe two people or something like that. But like, you're not going to have it really chaining big after the first turn, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Okay. So fine. Uh, can a newly, sorry, I've answered already. Can the newly made wizard choose a spell? Yes, they're a wizard. Okay. So let's flip into two different questions here. Like, if you're asking me on Legion of the First Prince, where you could tilt your demon prince into, into zinch, then use the zinch heroic action and suddenly become a wizard in your own hero phase? Yes, you would then get to pick a spell because they, that's how it works when you suddenly have access to a thing, you do get to, to choose the thing. Now, if you mean in this, you're a wizard at list buildings. So yes, you, you get to pick the spells like your cast lord would get to pick a spell like normal. Um, so yeah. Okay. Cool. Um, Brawny says this needs a, uh, an FAQ. Can the new wizards actually cast spells? I mean, I think we all understand the intent here is they become wizards. Hence they can cast spells. I don't, I mean like, sure, we can put in the FAQ, but they weren't just doing it for their health. They're not just gaining the keyword, right? So, okay.  You want to talk about this one? I've got a few thoughts. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. Let me finally discuss this. I've been waiting. So, oh my God, this, it's so amazing, right? Yeah. Like the last game, it was in the presence of idols. Just all right, look cool. Let's just put 20 chaos warriors on the line, march up, hang out in the middle, put three heroes, cast lord, cast lord, both retinue to the 20 chaos warriors. Hard to shift them. Six ones each. We have bodyguards and the cast sword lord. Now we did snipe the cast sword lord immediately pretty much. I mean, took, took him two turns, right? But that's the right thing to kill because you don't have the bodyguard protection in their events. So your heroes can die. So it's, it's a bad thing. The, but three wizards alone. I mean, or you could just play better. It's fine. Sure. Yeah. Just, just, uh, yeah. Three wizards alone, six spells. Um, I mean, there's so many amazing endless spells off, endless spell options with this. You gotta have the right combinations, right? Like you want to have them undivided to protect you from chaotic conduit.  But the endless spell options are phenomenal with, with this. I mean, soul screen bridge. That is amazing with 10 chaos chosen or whatever that can help with mobility that, that threat, right? Um, they're insulin ash. Now there are seven charge coming out of soul screen bridge with incredible range, uh, all, you know, endless spell anyway, just so many different combinations that you can lean into. I'm not going hard into it. I think you can just go a little bit. You're not taking six heroes to make them all wizards, right? You're taking like, it's like old school kabalach. You take like three. Yes.  And you're trying to have all three of them out. So you're getting the bonuses on dark fire demon rift, three mortal wounds, plus each endless spell on the battlefield, uh, giving you an additional mortal wounds for everyone that attacks in a two up. But you could have some notably strong range, mortal wound damage, kabalas list if you really want to lean into it. But yeah, anyway, I'm in love with this faction. Yeah, just a real quick answer, the confusion around the FAQ here. The core rules state that when you become a wizard, a wizard can cast spells. However, it then goes on to say the number of spells that a wizard knows is on their worst goal. Obviously on the worst goal, it doesn't, or sorry, not knows that can cast. I apologize. The number of spells a wizard can cast is stated on their worst goal. Obviously it doesn't state anything. So how many can they cast? We assume one, because tripping into a wizard would seem to make you a single cast wizard, right? Now it also then goes on to say all wizards know the arcane bolt and mystic shield spell. So you would automatically know those because you're becoming a wizard in list building. You also, of course, would then have access to choose because the wizard gets to choose a spell as part of the universal enhancements, you would have access to choose that. So the hang up here has to do with like the second sentence or whatever in section 19.0, because their worst goal itself does not have a specific reference to the number of spells they can cast. Can they cast any spells? I totally understand the FAQ it's worth just getting a clarification on, but I mean that the the intent of this is beyond obvious. Okay, like they didn't make them wizards and let them choose spells and all of that to then not do anything with it. Obviously. Okay, like just obviously that's how GW writes spells. I know I'm like the GW whisperer over here, because I tend to know what intent they have and generally pretty correct on the FAQs, but like obviously you don't need any kind of clairvoyant powers to know what they were going for. So but sure I'm sure it'll be FAQ to clarify it. Okay, Jordan anything else to say on Cabalus? No, Tyler's the expert. I think he covered everything. I'm the fanatic, I don't know about an expert. Jordan, try out realm scourge, rupture, and Jaws. That's a lot of fun, because the realm scourge rupture halves movement, right? And then Jaws benefits as well, and the slaves love slowing the enemy down. And yeah, I mean, it just it's the range damage that you can do without going crazy in your point investment that I love about Cabalus, right?  And it just adds that tool to the toolbox for the army. So covering such a weakness in the army or such a gap in the army of having ranged ranged output at all, let alone mortals, you know, is a great add. Yep. And yeah, Berserk, I do assume that's true that we'll have to wait for like, the actual book release and then some number of weeks after that. So okay.  So your choice. All right, let's talk about well, that's, that's okay. Magic's okay in Skaven. I don't like magic unless I've got like plus a million to cast. That's why I like plus four to cast Tyler. That's what I that's what I go for. So 3d6 is still too random. I need the solid, I need the solid bonus. Okay. Dispoilers, the least coherent. Oh, we didn't rank Cabalus. It's an A. Does anybody not give him maybe a plus? A plus plus. Yeah. Jordan? I'd say a minus. Maybe that's just different play styles. No, I get you. Also because spell doms exist. That makes it like that pushes it down out of A plus range. Sorry, Tyler.  Play Teclis and then we'll see if you're still in the A plus range on those guys. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Dispoilers, the least coherent of all of these. So Dispoilers classically was the demon prince sub faction. That's what it was all about. Everything was like buffing demon princes and monsters. And it's still doing that, but it didn't actually work out that way. So let's talk about it. First, add two to the wounds characteristic of friendly Dispoilers monster units. Okay. So the logical next question you should ask is, are there any good monsters in this book? And the answer is, yeah, sort of. Okay. So like, kind of the actual monster monsters. The people who might be hero monsters. Yeah, this is okay. Now you could also turn your demon prince into a monster through the command trait, in which case they will then go to 14 wounds because they go from 10 to 12 from the command trait and then 14 from this, which is cool. So if you want the full like knock off bellicor generic demon prince, you can, which is great. You should note, I will note here very quickly, by the way, remember Archeon and bellicor themselves, though they are both monsters will not benefit from this because they are both Legion locked into their own legions. So uh, in addition, each Dispoiler demon prince can be given a command trait in addition to your general, which can be used as if they were a general. Each command trait must be different. Now, how good that is relies completely on how good demon princes are because if demon princes are bad, then the ability to take a bunch of demon princes with command traits, then it's not good, right? If it's if demon princes are good, then this ability is amazing. I will, we will save it in for a moment as to what that shakes out to. We'll get to them in just a quick sec. But one thing I will say is that there is a weird perverse incentive here. Okay, let's imagine you build your Dispoiler's army with three demon princes and any other number of heroes. Okay. You are highly incentivized to not make the demon prince the general. Because let's let's just let's sketch a simple situation. There are three demon princes and a Lord on Karkadrak. Okay. If I make one of the demon princes the general, then he gets a command trait and so do the other two. Right? And the Lord on Karkadrak gets nothing. If I make the Lord on Karkadrak the general, all three demon princes still get command traits. So to get the maximum number of command traits, you actually don't make a demon prince the general in the demon prince is the general for sub faction. Oops. Oops. Oops. So the first time I ran this, I ran, I did run a Dispoiler's list. And then when I ran this, I made an exalted champion of chaos, the best boy, my general, and then just had demon princes everywhere. And I was like, this is, I'm all about it. This dude right here is in charge.  He's my guy. This is my dog right here. Okay. Dispoilers to me, I'll like again, it relies on the, it relies completely on the power of the individual units, like that is to say on monster types and demon princes. And my answer is this one gets a B. It's like a solid B, maybe a B minus, but it's fun. Jordan, where are you living with these guys? Yeah, I would even say it's C plus B minus 10 in that realm. Again, like you said, demon princes aren't, I don't think they're going to carry you. So is it worth investing more into them? Probably not. Probably not. Spoiler. No. Yeah. And all depends on, hey, there's definitely some fun and flavorful things in there. No doubt. But this was very fun to play. I will say that. But yes, like this is not where the power is. That is for sure. Tyler. C minus trending potentially deep D plus. Wow. I guess. Yeah, my, as we've established this year, claim to be any sort of Timmy players is once again showing. Apparently I'm, I don't know much Timmy and me. This, yeah, I don't, I don't really see this one. It feels incoherent, as you said, and it, and demon princes are very rough right now. They're rough. Yeah. We'll get there, but they're rough. Okay. Ravagers. So this is our cultist one for those who remember. Ravagers get yet another heroic action. You thought we were done. We're not done. We're done when I say we're done with heroic actions. Okay. So rally the tribes. Pick one chaos marauders, chaos marauder horsemen, cultist or dark oath unit in your army that has been destroyed. If you do so, a new replacement unit with half the number of models in the unit that was destroyed rounding up is added to your army. Set that unit holy up within 12 inches of this hero carrying out the rogue action and more than nine inches from all enemy units. Each destroyed unit can only replace be replaced once replaced units themselves cannot be replaced. This also needs an FAQ because at the moment they are not move blocked. I assume they will be as with all things that are like this, but at the moment you can reset them up and then go run walk away later on. I assume that will be fixed in the FAQ. This is very potent. If you are running a cultist heavy army, this is crazy what it allows you to do. It effectively gives you 50% more cultists for free. It is no joke. Because you're not just doing this in your turn. This can be the enemy turn heroic action. It's strong, strong. Jordan, are you living on ravagers? It's amazing. Definitely a standout in combination with some of the other, you know, specific units and abilities that we did into. But there are some very strong cultist units. There are some very strong, you know, units that buff those cultist units. And I think, like you said, just recycling units for heroic action is amazing. And noteworthy that the command trade to, you know, for sleight of darkness or yeah, demon prince to do another heroic action fits really well in this one. Is it enough to take a demon prince just for that? Maybe, maybe not. But if you really want this and the three sips cast in a list, it makes it all possible. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, ironically, demon princes actually work way better in ravagers, cabalists and legion of the first prince than they do into spoilers. Because in Legion, they can tilt to get the, to review the toolbox heroic actions. In cabalists, they just become a wizard, which is better than any command trade on the list. And in this, they give you the, if you can double dip for the heroic action. So you can be doing this and other things as well. So, yep. Okay. Cool. Good stuff. Uh, knights, knights, knights, knights, knights. That is a reference to a cartoon show that five people other than myself have watched. And it's because I have showed them the cartoon on DVD. At any rate, Knights of the Empty Throne. Knights of the Empty Throne units that have a mount can run and still charge in the same turn. What? Uh, what are you doing? Just, just everybody, everybody with a mount. Heroes, units, just, just everybody's run in charge now. Okay. Well, again, we could have stopped there, but we don't. Uh, when you pick the general for your army, if Archeon is not included in the army, you can pick a model in a friendly Varengard unit to be your general. A model, not the Varengard unit. You have to say like this guy, this guy right here, if you do so, that unit gains the leader battlefield role. In addition, if that general issues the rally command and a friendly Varengard unit receives it, you can return one slain model to that unit for each five up instead of six. Designers note this general cannot be given a command trait as it is not a hero. Uh, so it would not carry an artifact here because it's not a hero. Um, I don't know why they just didn't say both, but yeah, both follow from that logically. Um, yeah, Jordan, what's your take on Knights? I own 12 Varengard. So I love it so far. Um, it's not that again, Calvary's my jam. So this is instantly the one I gravitated towards. Um, run in charge in combination, um, with the other buffs in this army for 3d, six charge for mountain stuff, you know, pluses to run in charge. Like there's a number of marks that really lend themselves to what this army wants to do. It's a pretty, it's like, I love this one. It's a, it's a more straightforward build process, but that's not a bad thing. Like everything works well to the other good synergies that are fairly straightforward. So I think this one's a huge hit. Agreed. Solid A all the way from me, Tyler. Yeah. Yeah. Similar thoughts to you guys. Not much more to add. Yep. It's excellent. It's pretty great. I'm going to be curious to see how it does competitively. But again, I think the principles we talked about at the beginning will generally still hold to keep things like this in check. But I can't recall in the game seven year history of an entire, of a sub faction having run in charge or like a class, like basically an entire army potentially. OBR, Steliak Lords. Oh, okay. Okay. The very popular. The very popular Steliak Lords. Yeah. Yeah. Can I point out the units to benefit from it quite as well? Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Anyway, pretty amazing. Also Tristan, you are, as always, you're amazing because yes, Tristan knows the cartoon I'm talking about. So that's amazing. At any rate, okay. Let's talk about my least favorite part of all of this. The thing that I pretend doesn't exist. I have used officially zero of these. I'm not going to lie. I don't even read this section because I'm not going to use them. So, but there we go. Tyler, talk about grand strategies and battle tactics.  I've lost this battle. I've given up. Yeah. Okay. So dominating presence when the battle ends, you complete this grand strat. If there's at least one friendly slaves darkness unit, wholly within each arch quarter of the battlefield. So this could synergize well with ravagers, which we discussed, right? Getting lots of units back. That could play well with dominating presence. Follow the path to glory when the battle ends, complete this grand strategy role. The dark Apotheos result on the eye of the gods table. One or more times during the battle. So can you get one of your heroes? 11 or 12. Yeah. Can you manufacture a demon prince? Yeah. Yes, exactly. Some lists can do that probably with decent reliability. It's not the best. It's not the worst. Run to the realms when the battle ends, please grant strat if you completed at least four battle tactics. And every battle tactic you completed was from the glory of chaos list below. So the in book battle tactics play a pass. They've been doing this a fair amount. Not a, I mean, I don't know. It's more, it's not a competitive choice. Masters of dark ritual. When the battle ends, you complete this grand strategy. If there are any slaves to darkness, key worded in the spells on the battlefield that you set up. Probably too random. Probably not reliable enough. You've got three options. Maybe you can get away with it, but you're probably not taking that. I like dominating presence out of that one. Jordan, you got any thoughts on those grand strats? Yeah. In a specific situation, the follow the path to glory is interesting. But I think the only reason you even consider any of these is that there's no generic one that's an automatic or great. Grand strats. Yeah, that's kind of curious to get your guys thoughts on that. I've been having that debate right in my head as well. Like, which was the right one to go with? And I've been trying out whatever it's called, where you have your belly vet units in the center of the battlefield, and it's going to count as being in all four quarters, right? 20 chaos, 20, yeah. So that one's kind of interesting, potentially, whatever that one's called. So yeah, battle tactics. Got one, two, three, four, five, six. Some of these are very doable, in my opinion. I think two in particular you're going to see all the time. First one, enter through all the chaos, pick one object marked on the battlefield within 12 of any enemy units. Complete the battle tactic. If there are no enemy units within 12 of that objective at the end of this turn. One could get played, you know, a fair amount. Lest for power, pick one friendly slaves of darkness hero that has the eye of the gods keyword. You complete this battle tactic. If you roll on the eye of the gods table, that hero during this turn. Oh, yeah, that one could be pretty easy in some context. Like chaos conduit on the 3d6 says gain two, two victory points this turn. Exactly, yeah, 100%. Yeah. And yeah, you can generally plan for that one even without relying on Kabbalahs, et cetera. Just you could potentially set it up where you take control of an objective without a lot of difficulty. So yeah, you'll see that all the time. Arch of Ruin, pick one friendly slaves of darkness unit that includes a standard bearer with an insorcel banner as not within enemy territory. It's kind of a weird one. Complete this battle tactic. If at the end of this turn that unit is wholly within enemy territory and within three inches of any other friendly units at one situation in the six games are like, oh, cool, I can actually do this. But I don't know. You could maybe try to plan it. It's weird. It's wordy. The iconoclass pick one enemy unit that is a priest or totem. Complete this battle tactic that unit destroyed at the end of this turn. The totems nowadays. Yeah, there's a lot of totems around, sure. Excuse me. Could you please identify all the totems in your army? No reason. Okay. So champions of chaos. Complete this battle tactic. If at the end of your turn there are three or more friendly heroes within three inches of enemy heroes. Three or more friendly heroes within three inches of enemy heroes. How weird. I doubt it. Sure. Not going to happen that often. Finally, run them down another one that you're going to see all the time. Complete this battle tactic. End of your turn. Three or more friendly slaves of darkness units made a charge move in that turn. Obviously, ABC is the name of the game with this army. I've been doing a lot of catacomb to the turn one and run them down turn two, which then leaves against the odds, barge through enemy lines, to create their lands. You don't even have to get into killing these tactics, right? With two easy ones all a sequel out of the books. Yep. There they are, folks. We did it. Okay, cool. Core battalions. Yep. All right, here they are. I have now put them on screen. Great. Next. Okay, let's get into the war scrolls. That's what I think about the core battalions. These at least events follow the principle we've discussed many times of problem isn't one drop. The problem isn't unified. Right. One drop hits battle reg. Correct. Battle regimen is the problem, not unified. Yeah. These are kind of interesting because chaos warband is one hero, not two heroes, and four troops. So like you're not probably fitting your entire army. I guess you potentially could. You could just take one hero. You could take Archon or whatever. Well, it actually can't take Archon. Slave of darkness leader. I guess you could take. Yeah. Anyhow, yeah, it's better than just battle reg. No, it's if those core ones didn't exist, then I'd look at these. But the problem is they do. So here we are. Okay. I'm not the one who made the decision to make those. Sure. All right, let's talk war scrolls. Okay. Archon, the ever-chosen. Grand Marshal of the Apocalypse. Lord of the all points. The eight points, whatever. And pretty good dancer. I've heard. He's got some, he can get out there. He can do a little Charleston shuffle and stuff. He's good. Okay. Big upgrades for this guy. Big ups. 25 wounds. Still with the 14 inch move. Double caster. War master. Fly. His mount is still Dorgar. His attacks are, I believe, improved. Although I'll be honest, I didn't look at the old scroll and remember exactly what his all his old stuff was. I think he had a little bit of buff to his attacks. Yeah, they're a little bit better. Like the monster's claws went from random damage to just flat five, right? That they used to be random damage. I believe they were D6 damage. And now they're just flat five, which is like so much better. So that's cool. His armor of more cars much improved as he now just has a ward of five up. Instead of a ward only against mortal wounds. So amazing. He still bounces back on a roll of six. He has by my will, which can be used on any friendly chaos unit until the end of that phase if they're slain they fight. So he has a death frenzy, command ability, which is good. I would note that it is at the start of the combat phase. So it is going to that unit can't all out attack, all out defense, any of the other things we talked about earlier. And a unit can be roared out of being able to receive this, which is cool. The crown of domination, enemy units cannot receive the rally and inspiring presence commands while they're within 12 inches of this unit. With Mr. 160 millimeter base, that is a heck of a bubble around him on the table. He is projecting of no rally and no inspiring presence.  Once per battle. He does this now. It's not a secret anymore.  Because it would be the start of his hero phase. So he has to make the decision to use this before I make the decision to Bellicor him. Right. And so it put him in a place where he wouldn't use this because if he knew he was going to like tick into the double, then instantly Archeon was getting locked out. Oh, never sent. Right. Right.  But hey, first time playing against Snakey Boys didn't realize what they were capable of. It's a lot. So that's how that works now. It's just one to three. Your opponent takes the priority four to six. Sorry, first turn. Not priority first turn. Four to six you do. Favored Warlord. You can pick one of the following marks of chaos and he gains that in addition to undivided. So everybody will just mark him Nurgle. That will just happen basically every time so that he's neg one to be wounded and gets even more ridiculously tough. The Slayer of Kings still does Slayer of Kings stuff, which is put people in the bin when you roll a double six to wound. And now the heads are all monstrous rampages that do specific things. Yada yada, the Nurgle one does some mortal wounds.  He has 860 points faction locked to the host of the ever chosen. Okay. Gentlemen, Jordan, coming to you first again. Archeon, is he worth 860 points? Is this the glow up this guy needed? Are we going to see him around? I think you'll see him. I think he's great. One of the things people talked about is there's no longer the potential for the double pile in with Archeon. Just there's no chaos Lord babysitters for him anymore, which I think is good. But he's amazing. Like you said, super tanky. He could be very resilient, hard to avoid. Everyone was, or a lot of people were taking the un-misspelled to turn off rallying and inspiring presence. Now he just does that automatically. I'm sorry, if we're on mass too. So so many positives. I think we'll like very strong in Nurgle. I think we'll also see corn because it does help with, you know, it's another potential five damage attack going through. Another chance of the Slayer Kings. Exactly. So I think those are two, probably the standouts for the last part. But I think he's great in probably the highlight in conjunction with maybe looking at the sub faction where you bring about half your cultists, where they're also fighting on death now for commandability. Yep. That's exactly what I faced, by the way. It was Archeon Ravagers with a ton of Snake Boys and it was Red Donk. Because yeah, they would just fight on death and it'd be like, oh good, this is happening now. Yeah, potentially fighting, fighting on death and then coming back half the unit on your opponent's turn and doing the same thing. Yep. This sounds all very familiar to me. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Tyler? I agree with Jordan. I think he'll see quite a bit of play. Generally, he strikes me as not. I can't believe I'm saying this. Archeon has struggled over the years, right? He's either too good or he's not good enough. Had a hard time finding a sweet spot with him. I like to say I think they've done it. Because the main thing that stands out to me is that we're still in the safe stacking reality. Guy's not rocking minus three rent and he doesn't have a way of getting minus three rent outside of like running Purple Sun and taking the risk of him getting hit with it. So yeah, I think he'll see quite a bit of play. I actually think the Nergal Head is really good. Wanted to be a unit within six this unit. Roll a number of dice equal a number of models in that unit. It's a maximum of seven for each three plus. I got hit, I got like 13 mortal wounds, six and seven. Back to back combat phases on two different units of stone gardens. Like what the hell? It was nuts on top of his damage. So that, yeah. The corn you can pick out an enemy model. So pick out the insorcel banner, chaos warrior unit, right? Or chosen units or whatever the case might be. A lot of situations like that. That's really advantageous. I think he's probably going to be okay in terms of balance, external balance. You know, I tend to agree. I think this is like the first 860 point hero I've seen where I'm like, yep, that's 860 points. And it feels like about 860 points. Like, that feels correct. Like, don't get me wrong. I think he's probably going to be okay in terms of balance, external balance. You know, I tend to agree. I think this is like the first 860 point hero I've seen that feels correct. Like, don't get me wrong. This dude is tough. Like, he is hard as a coffin nail. He is a challenge to remove. It can be done, okay? But like, it is not easy. You got to hit him with a mecha hammer to knock him down. Yeah. The existence of this war scroll is the best reason for considering a normal demon prince. A demon prince in general in your army. Yeah, because if you're not cutting through ward saves, there are effectively 37 wounds on an easily neg one to be wounded. Yeah. That's no joke. So, okay. Ah, the demon prince. We had to come to him eventually. And here we are. Let's talk about this guy. Cool as new model. Uh... Okay. 8 inch move, 10 wounds, 3 up save, 10 bravery. Of course, because he's a demon. You can have either wings or the trophy rack. I think the trophy rack is worse, although there is a very specific build where it has an extremely high value. But for the most part, it is just bad. Wings give you a fly of 12 instead of a move of 8. So, cool. And also, they look like super good. So, there's that too. Uh... If you take the trophy rack instead, then units holy within 9 are immune to battle shock. And in addition, each time an enemy hero or monster is destroyed, by this unit, you increase the range of that ability by 3. So, okay, whatever. He has a ward of 6 up. If you take the sword, which you shouldn't, you get to do D3 mortals on a hit roll of 6. And you have this list of heroic actions that you can use. The problem with this is that the problem with the heroic action is it really is unless you're taking this guy in some way where you can get easy access to not be denied, it is really hard to spare the heroic action for this demon prince. Like, really hard. Uh... And... Because you have too many other heroic actions you're trying to do. Now, when you look at his melee profile at first, you're like, man, that is a great melee profile. Look at all those attacks. Look at all that cool stuff he does. Nope. He gets to pick one of those. He doesn't even have the weapon and the talons like he used to have. Nope, it's just one. Just one. And so, the axe is the mathematically correct choice because of the rend 2 damage too. Even with the mortal wounds like I went through and calked out all of them and the sword ends up almost the exact same damage but slightly lower the rend when it just ends up paying more dividends in more cases. So this is a 10 wound hero which is the worst thing you can be in the game. Okay. Like, 10 wounds is the worst number of wounds to have. Because he now counts as the big commander in all the the battalions. Can't get cover. Can't get lookouts, sir.  But it's not a monster. So it doesn't have like 10 wounds but you're a monster so you get the monster consolation prize. Still just counts as two models. Mostly you can make him a monster through a commensary. No, you do not get the talents in addition to the the weapon. You do not. The and it is its role is melee assassin.  Because melee assassins just aren't why people pick heroes. melee assassins are generally bad.   I just want to be super clear on that. When I say the damage isn't good against a 4 up save this guy averages 3.6 damage. Now that's not real because obviously you can't actually do 0.6 damage but I'm giving you the mathematical average. Okay. So if you if you charge with the slanesh mark on it goes to 4.6 because the extra attack. Hmm. Yay. Look out. Sad. So it's a melee assassin that doesn't do much damage isn't very tough and doesn't benefit from nearly anything. Yes you can stack command traits on here to do some interesting stuff. Yes I've run demon princes a lot because I keep trying to shove it in because I like my favorite unit but you know at 195 it's it's it's rough. It's rough. Alright Jordan did I miss anything on this guy? No I think the his best the best case for him is in ravagers where you want to be doing two heroic actions and most of the time you're not actually using the old the demon prince one. Yeah but maybe the nerdo one will come up bait in a couple matchups so it's an extra bonus. Yep I think the ravagers list is where he actually makes the most sense because then you're going to trophy rack him and just kind of burrow him in the middle of as many cultists as you can get within nine inches to keep all your cultists battle shock immune right. That or the legion of the first prince so you can as I said earlier like tilt for the toolbox because the only actual role this guy seems to have is for the nergal mark to get rid of ward saves to unstick that problem if you're running that toolbox like that's it. Yeah I mean you could give him that crown to turn off one win two win but again I mean that particularly relevant potentially in a future world as opposed to right now because yeah 12 inch move right he could go up and do that solo mission and and help you on let's tactics or objective you know hold more potentially you know still an objective free opponent they didn't expect that get some scoring separation but yeah I took this guy out of my list I come to end this debate right 195 points is obviously a lot for this kind of profile and every game all six games oh sorry I played four of the six games first four games I had him and he didn't do anything other than cast spells right he just stood behind you were making him a wizard which is not normally yeah yeah so at least I got that benefit from him but like I can't send him off to do something because it's not worth losing the spell cast and he's probably not going to do enough anyway he doesn't do enough output to reliably like even kill chaff so he's not a good solo operator as you said a melee assassin or a chaff killer whatever generally speaking maybe you could tool him up a little bit more but does adding malefic talons as additional profile does that fix him it would do something it would at least let him handle low armor targets and be frightening to them right like at least then there would be like some kind of offensive role that you'd go like yeah okay like he can go handle that low armor unit right but the problem is with only five attacks on like threes and threes it's just it's you very often won't get there not all out attacking on this guy you're all out attacking on chosen or something your chaos knights or whatever yeah yeah it's really unfortunate yes because I mean they clearly wanted us to play this dude maybe multiple ones as you said it's such an extraordinary model but it's one of the biggest misses in the book I would say yeah I agree yeah I agree and I just I don't get it I don't get how we looked at this profile and its capabilities like did no one run the math on the average damage like you know five seconds after I read this guy and I was like what is this if anybody post some comments let us know if we're missing anything with this guy I'd love to hear some ideas on how he's saying in terms of the value add but yeah I mean to me his only role is like I said either in cabalists to act as a battle shock immune thing that can't be turned off right because like other people can't turn off his trophy rack so you know you don't have to worry about inspiring presence getting shut off and that eases your command ability burden right or in like legion where he can toolbox into nervel and just be like oh hey I'm fighting an enemy nergal army fortunately I brought my nergal demon prince who makes it so the rest of my army absolutely blows through nergal like it's nothing right and suddenly like mr. splithorn helm guy on his bug and the rest of his little bug writer friends are all just dead instantly to your chaos nights without their ward saves right and like because now they're on like even all out there on a five up save and that's it to you know and he's fast enough then to just kind of keep up with them and do the combo charge thinking about it if he had that crown I'm forgetting which one it's called there's two crowns they love their hats in this book that yeah and that example you gave of having that massive relocation range in that game yeah I mean having that on that I mean that could be very clutch in the game to be able to slain ash at the right moment and lesion the first prince on run six plus one etc etc right back back that gets interesting but yeah it's kind of these edge cases you're trying to figure out combos to to make him worthwhile it's it doesn't yeah yeah he's just underwhelming I like I know I'm really beating this up I like I wrote a much longer rant about this guy but I I shelved it because it was just too long and I didn't want to spend that much time on it but it makes me sad because my favorite model to be clear not counting the new one which I will build and still paint I have like I have five demon princes okay like when I say this is one of my favorite models of all time like I love demon princes like I have them from all different ranges and stuff like that built to all different gods you know I just think they're like the coolest concept and like that because of the whole apotheosis thing all that's just like neat right just neat and by the way they also don't have eye of the gods so they can't level up in any way they've already reached max level apparently this is what peak performance looks like right so it's like but all your other heroes who have eye of the gods will get chances to just level in the game and just suddenly gain plus one rend and when that happens it's such a huge deal right and this guy's just he cannot get that he will never get that so yep okay got it so underwhelming is the name of the game ironically the worst in his own sub faction but interesting in ravagers I should say this way has at least a point to exist in ravagers and legion okay cool Varengard Jordan you're taking these guys do it go tell us about Varengard I think overall they got a great blow up more consistent profile you know they used to have plus one damage on the charge it's now just plus one on their characteristic one up by one so they're more reliable um and honestly I think they did a great job with this in the profiles like I think each weapon has some value and when I first looked they were pretty like bath hammer wise they panned out pretty quite similarly which is always great so you know great great unit still right Varengard were good before they're still good they're better with all the peripheral stuff around legions ability sub factions all that these guys have gone better if anything can't take an artifact on them but that's that was kind of janky to begin with sure in a bubble Jordan what are you running fell spear and source of blade or demon forged no no no no no Tyler that's not how they work that's not how they work you don't have to do that each model that's true that's true yeah so if you take a six pack you can have like the front three guys with the one inch weapons or something and then the back three guys with the fell spear you build like three with fell spear so they can sit behind in a comfortable way and fight over the top may have to change my point I didn't I didn't test that actually that's a great point yes these guys are real interesting because of that unlike almost every other unit in the game it specifically says models in the unit can each be armed with a different weapon option which to me is like so cool and so versatile for these dudes because yeah you can just roll up Tokyo drift the front rank sideways and have the fell spear guys right behind lock stock ready to rock they're all attacking no janky puppy paw print formation easy money that's amazing actually because the fell spears are great so to answer your question before Vince's comment I would have said I have you know my list one of the lists I'm running I have six fell spear or unit six fell spears and I have two three packs within source of weapons you know good general way my big unit that's my hammer is gonna I'm gonna set up to make sure they get the charge so they're gonna be getting those buffs and they're gonna run through stuff and the three packs are you know I'm sending them off of their own their mic more likely to get hit first so that that weapons better in that case but having a six pack that's good at both like yeah like Vince that's a great great shout out so thank you for that that's long nugget absolutely yeah I love like the front three with demon forge blades so they're like the mortal wound crackers and the back ones who go to rend three with the fell spears it's like a it's such an amazing combination right like do you like curnoff swords and sides why not just to put both into one unit that's what I'm here for so I'm assuming I've never read I'm running six for the first time and I haven't actually checked the base size but I'm assuming that's based on what you're saying that the bases are small enough tokyo drift on the side that too yeah they're 90 by they're 92 by 52 so as long as you don't put the guy against the widest point you can reach over the top because all you have to like if you slide two millimeters to the left then it's two inches to the target okay I was going to check that I just hadn't checked it yet it was very interesting they're on the big can they're on the big cavalry base basically just just to make a case for the fell spears too I know a lot of people love their social weapons primarily but one thing this army lax is a lot of high rent right so the fell spears going to rent three on the charge is is our you know the books best you know access to high rent yep oh yeah sorry Aaron's right they're on the normal cavalry base what I'm thinking yeah they're on the 75 by 42's not even the bigger one so yeah you can you can reach over the top easily thank you Aaron I totally I was thinking of the Lord on Karko I think is on the bigger one that's it yeah it's great great point Jordan there are best can opener on their starting profile so yeah potentially getting them to even minus four and undivided would be would be lovely they have a built in four up ward against mortal wounds now which is brilliant was one of their defining weaknesses previously so yeah yep so great save rallying on five ups yeah looks like they're priced about right yeah 90 for three yeah I've seen these guys I haven't run them yet but the first game I played we actually did is a team game so and I had another slaves darkness partner I was running SUD and my partner ran Knights the Empty Throne and had a heavy Varengard list and man these guys just impressed living heck out of me like they were they were doing great so just good work all around yeah okay yeah Varengard awesome Bellicor the dark master 355 locked to Legion the first prince other than that he's still Bellicor he does Bellicor things he hasn't really changed he still does what Bellicor does he has his little his little stop it thing the difference is he actually has two other profiles besides his main weapon so good on him I guess you know he's the problem with Bellicor is that he is uh he's fragile that's it that's that's the thing he's on a four up ethereal so we can't get better than four up and he has no word save and so there you go like he'll just die very easily as I learned can be a wet noodle as well yeah and this is one of the worst goals events we talk a little bit about this Jordan very curious your thoughts and Bellicor view I think you played him a little bit but I find his worst goal quite frustrating right so we're paying 355 mostly for Bellicor's ability in my mind which of course I kind of get why that ability is priced pretty high because there are a lot of matchups there have been a lot of matchups over the last however long people have been running Bellicor where you get value out of particularly if you can set up the right conditions where you're like getting it for three turns in a row right or at least two turns you're locking Archion down in whatever case Archair is eye down beyond that yeah he's fragile and he doesn't hit as hard as he should is it like he needs to be 14 for 20 for 30 and actually hit meaningfully or be a little more tanky have a five up board built in seems something is off to me with this guy if I was to make any change like if you know have the power to make any change I would it would be the resiliency to me I think his damage is good enough for what you want him to do which is you know killing screens killing chat units you know stuff that's off on its own putting him in favorable positions not as you know just an ultimate hammer but it's like you know he's the demon prince you know I wish he had if anything like award save would be great but I think a three up ethereal like a therian it's you know not it's not busted you know mortal wounds still tear him apart yep but like 5050 it's like that's what it's worth like a therial it's honestly worse for him to have it'd be better if he wasn't a therial with a four up right because then you can stack saves on him at least but the ethereal like four up just feels yeah punishing was that we had an artifact back in early malign sorcery days a three up I came in what it's called and it was fine you'd see that on l