Okay, hello people Yesterday's why I thought was so bad and I had to I had to get rid of it and erase it and do something else Cuz uh, oh hold on let me put this through it It's like I was distracted the whole time Like it's like there were a bunch of naked ladies over there or or a really cool boat or some fancy tools I just couldn't not pay attention to but it wasn't any of that It was just I was distracted by my own heat exhaustion and the whole time I felt like This is what I felt like Anyway I just erased that and I'm doing it. I'm doing it live right now while I'm doing some morning floorboards and So this one's gonna be not so much talking and a lot more making up stuff Because I thought the the only interesting part of what I did yesterday was showing the second floor, okay? I've got this board here, and it's got like termite damage. There's no termites in it now, but I Don't know if I might use it Let's just put it over here This one here has a little bit of damage too And these two boards and I wasn't sure if I wanted to use them This one on that other one. I just moved. Let me just move them out of the way. I don't think about it All the rest of these I'm doing these I'm checking for previous cutoffs that can Fill in parts. I don't want to waste pieces of wood and this is an eight inch board Looks like I currently have no eight inch Leftovers so Just be a solid piece right across This is the last board. I'm gonna put on right now for this section because the outer part of my My floor up here is gonna be a banked part because The outside part of this is gonna be a running track, you know the inside part will be like kids rooms and a Lego zone. I don't know. There are 12 different slots So 12 different things then the outer part is gonna be running track And you know bicycle track or whatever and the outside part is gonna be banked I have a whole bunch of strips of wood that I'm gonna laminate for that. I think I mean I've never never done that before I've never seen it done before but Should work fine, right? I was thinking the other day You know I have all this video making all these boards like right from Chainsawing them out of logs carrying them out of the woods bring them here You know Cutting them nice and planing them. I was thinking I should do a video of just one board So like one cut on the log Carry one out of the jungle and then you know trim it and Plane it go through the whole thing on one board in real time and see how long it actually takes To make one of these floorboards. I Think it's probably gonna be like Some obscenely long amount of time Maybe I shouldn't check Keep switching bits back and forth I Did have three drills But they all died This one is actually held together by zip ties. I don't know you can't see it at all Because the lighting is not right for that. But anyway, this one's held together by this time It's the only Other than some plug-in drills, which maybe Maybe I'll get one of the plug-in drills over here. I don't know. This is fine. Okay. I think that's the last board That section I already did one here Not putting that many screws in these yet because I think I might have to Re-adjust them later Depending on how much they shrink Place all the screws with wood pegs That will be out Hot for sure. Well, I think that's it for the moment I have to go out and cut some more boards the ones And I have a couple over there that have termite damage I'm not sure if I'm gonna use those yet. So I'm just gonna leave them for the moment Now let me just Check Why is this zoomed in so close? All right, let me just check if there's any questions I need to answer here Turn up the brightness Someone's cooking noodles. That's excellent Upstairs is looking awesome. I'm super happy with upstairs This is let's see one two three four. This is the fifth floor section And I've got 12 sections all the way around So it's going pretty well the outer part here where I haven't put Boards yet is where the banked section of the floor goes So I'll do that That's a totally different process Banked for speed heck. Yeah. Yes, exactly. I'm gonna Oh, man, it's gonna be great. I think I don't know. I've never I don't know. I think it's gonna be pretty awesome. I'll have to see, you know, when I get it together Our termites that thing there. Yes Um, I've been spraying my wood with borax these floorboards. I just put down have not been sprayed yet but all the joists All the joists I put in the joists are like the framework for the floor Or anyone doesn't know what a joist is. Anyway, I got all the joists in and then I mixed borax with water And, you know, like put some borax in some hot water mix it all up till it dissolves put it in like a gallon I don't remember what the ratios are you can look this stuff up online though Um, and then use one of those pump sprayers and just went around and sprayed the crap out of everything I use two two full pump sprayers worth and a pumps One of those pump sprayers like a little over a gallon So a couple of gallons of this borax solution went on all the joists and Pretty soon I'll do that to the floor too The one one thing that happened was when I put the borax on the wood got a lot more red It's kind of funny because like Well here you can see a part of the wood that's was recently planed And then a part that the planer didn't quite hit Totally different color, right So I'm not sure if the planed part is going to or the lighting in that direction is better I'm not sure if the plane part is going to get more red With time Because the same thing happened when I when I cut them originally with a chainsaw I would cut them they they look white and then a couple weeks later. It was it was like this reddish color So I don't know I don't know whatever color. I don't really care. It's a mahogany wood anyway Otherwise known as my old rojo around here, but it's mahogany um But yeah, I like the color it is right now looks light really light wood And I think it'll probably turn more red more red would be amazing too. So whatever We'll see how that goes, but yeah termites are a thing uh, wait Thank you for speed Oh, uh, you'd wait wait. How are the bedrooms going to be or is it more communal space? um Well I don't know what the bedrooms are going to be Like I think the bed the kids bedrooms are all going to be up here. They're each going to get a section They've already been picking them out, right? I'll probably put my bedroom up here too. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see we're just I'm very like Let's just do whatever we feel like and figure it out when you know, I don't know um Probably my Like my three and five year old are just going to want section so like Let me turn this a little I don't even know if you can you know to see this very well Delighting. Okay. Every every time there's one of these archers arches. There's also a pillar So, you know, there's clearly delineated section. So this is a section here and you know as it Goes out. There's a there's definitely a seam Okay, there's definitely a seam on the floor so There are 12 very clearly Marked sections around the floor and my my little kids Are probably going to be fine with just that but my older kids might want some more privacy and you know My oldest one will probably want some walls So we'll make her some walls Um Although she might want her room where it is right now, which is downstairs. I don't know. We'll see whatever, you know, whatever A coconut a day keeps the doctor away. Man I didn't get a coconut yesterday Sometimes I don't know most of the time I'll get at least a coconut every day out of my coconut trees And then once in a while they just won't drop one for a couple weeks and it's annoying Right now. They've been really slow. I got one yesterday and the day before that But then the three days before that I got no coconuts And I don't know off the go outside. I haven't gone out to check for coconuts yet this morning Bank for speed. Yes Yeah, we already read that one termites like little deck screws or what are you? These these guys here. Yeah deck screws. Oh, man. Look at my fingernails.  There's so many things I need to do Let's see. Yes deck screws. I don't know why people don't use deck screws. I mean There's this there's this idea that You're supposed to use the least effective thing you can get away with generally in building So people will use deck screws outside Which are coated and you know rust preventative and stuff because they have to be outside or else the rust, right? But then inside they'll use crappier things Because I don't want them to last too long But I I I don't see any reason why you would not use deck screws inside Other than you don't like the way they look or whatever. I don't know. But yeah, um Wait, where was I? This went all the way to the end. Okay Deck screws. Yes deck screws. He sprayed a borax solution on the wood to keep bugs away. Yeah. Yeah and the bugs if they Eat the borax they die and I guess they also take it home to their buddies and kill all them too The best thing I've found to treat for insects is starting with an aromatic wood likes cedar than I don't I do have some some cedar, but I'm not using cedar. So then Shhoh shuh shoo shh. And then oil sealing it. of the the cute yellow saw looks light weight and perfect. Do recommended. I do not recommend it. It's not not lightweight at all. This thing is this is the heaviest one of these I've ever had. It's Dewalt. I can't I would recommend DeWalt tools actually because they keep breaking. This is the third circular saw I've had. The first two broke and the first two were lighter duty. They actually were very light. This one's super heavy. So I'm hoping this one will last a long time. Although the problem with this saw is that it only runs on the 60 volt. So, you know, these batteries. So here's my drill. Oh, you can see it held together with zip ties. Yeah, cause it's falling apart. And I have two other DeWalt drills that have died. Just totally broken. Maybe three, three other ones, I think, yeah. The first time one of them died, I wrote the company and they sent me a new one. And then after that, I just kind of gave up. I don't know, it is really nice to have a cordless thing, you know, but corded, old corded drills are, they're the most long lasting. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do when this one croaks. Maybe I'll get another drill before that one dies. But, you know, it's like they just have like a two or three year lifespan. And then anyway, this circular saw here uses the 60 volt. It can't run on the 20 volt, but most of my batteries are just 20 volts, right? So this one's just 20 volts, which runs the drill and then what's the jigsaw thing? The saw's all and I don't know, that might be it. Might be something else. But anyway, I only have two of these that have the 60 volt. And they're getting kind of old, they don't hold the charge that well. This one, it was fully charged this morning and now it's dead. But it made it through today, so that's good. I'll go put it on the charger and get it charged up. That's, oh God, what does that say? That's I-hreet through to landfill. Oh my gosh, someone is so... Did this thing just change zoom? Dude, this is so weird. So does this thing auto zoom? Was it zooming in more when I was over there? Oh, whatever, I don't even care. Okay, that's I-hreet through to land-oil. Maybe boil the oil in borax so it would penetrate, ah. I'm pretty sure that a flexible dewall, yeah. Hey, Jamie, what's your political not affiliation, but standpoint, a political anarchist is my bet for your bent is just like I am, monopolitical constitutionalist, same party, if you mentioned, I don't know, this is just, you know, when people start talking about politics, they come up with all these terms that just in the end are not important. You know what's more important? Are you a good person? Because it doesn't matter if you're in a communist state, a capitalist society, a capitalist society, a democracy or whatever, any of this stuff. None of this stuff matters if you don't have good people. If you have good people, anything works. But if you don't have good people, nothing works. So yeah, but yeah, I would definitely lean toward anarchist, I don't want, I don't want. I think people should be free to succeed or fail. And a lot of times people want freedom to succeed, but they don't want to accept the consequences of failure. So they end up not really wanting freedom, but for me, I just want total freedom. I want to either succeed or fail based on my own steam. And I think that should be the general consensus. And I think helping other people should be voluntary. Because if you're forced to help other people, it just causes a lot of problems. It takes the morality out of it, first of all, because now you're not helping people. You're just doing what you're forced to do. So there is no, there is no, it erases kindness. Like it takes kindness out of the world. But if you are free to be kind, you can actually be kind and help people. But it's a totally different thing when a government comes along and says, you have to help these people. You have to give these people.  Now you don't want to be kind anymore. And it makes, it creates a lot of animosity. And yeah, I think it's much more important to be a good person and to have good people. So, yeah. I wonder if you were to carbonize or scorch the bottom of those planks that would be enough to prevent termites from entering. Well, I think they just go in from the top then. But I don't know for sure, I think so, though. Yes, Ken, that's what Shoshugivan is. It's a fancy Japanese word for burning wood.  Jesus, the house is going to take all day. Jesus, this house is going to take all day. All right, all right. Good things take time. I'm emailing him a drill now. Do I 3D print it? Definitely your best work ever. Well, I wouldn't say this is my best work ever. It's pretty nice, though. The wood color is amazing. There should be a way to preserve it. Well, I don't know, whatever. The wood color is amazing right now. And if it gets a little more red, that's still going to be amazing. I think it's going to be amazing either way. And thus it gets filthy. But I'm probably going to wax it a lot to make it easy to clean and all that. I don't know, maybe I'll put some kind of sealer, like polyurethane on top or something. I don't know, I'll figure that out eventually. For right now, I'm telling the kids, don't take anything upstairs.  You know. Let's see, rock on. How much is this wood going to shrink? Well, it may shrink by an inch per year. I'm just kidding. I don't know. I don't know how much it's going to shrink. So I'm not putting a lot of screws in it. So if the boards shrink and they leave some space, I can take them all and shove them up to the front, take up the space and then fill in with a sliver at the back. I don't know. I'll have to wait and see. And if I have to move them, I'll have to trim the edges a little bit, but it won't be that big a deal. But I don't know, maybe they've dried enough. I cut them a while ago. Landfill is this green wood or did he season and dry it? I cut this wood, what's it, like the end of March now? I cut it in January. So maybe the, I mean, the first four boards were like the beginning of January. So that's like January, February, March, three months of drying. I don't know how many months they need to really, to really be good. Drying for a very short time, weeks. Mr. Landfill, weeks. No, you've not. Oh, that's funny. I started this in January, man. Maybe some months. Oh, there he goes, Mr. Landfill. Yes, like three months. Hands up who thinks Jamie is living a sedentary life.  I'll bet I do more steps than he does. Yesterday, I managed a new record. 1,905, I don't even know that. How could you measure? I think if you're measuring the distance you travel in individual steps, it probably means you're not going very far. I know this guy's just joking around, but I'm just saying. Like he, like I measure my, my distance traveled in kilometers or miles. Anyway, pure dystopia, a guy mining his business in his house and a dozen others peeking over his shoulder from the concrete boxes on the other side of the planet. It's nuisance. Oh, it's, it's incense. When you think about it, it's insane. It's incense. What's insane? Okay, you had to write it three times. It's insane when you think about it. I remember making long distance phone calls using a street pay phone. I remember doing that. Feeding coins at every two seconds. I remember eight track tapes. I do not remember the eight track tapes. I missed those by a few years. Called my brother on the phone by in Marsat. That was like $10 a minute, decades ago, wow. Did the camera just zoom in? It, wait, did it zoomed in while I was working, right? Darn ghost adjusting camera. I made BN moderator. Yes, the cam moved. Yeah, so I think this, this YouTube camera thing does, I mean the, you know, the camera, whatever live software, whatever does auto zooming in and stuff. Cause I didn't touch it the whole time I was doing stuff, obviously. I am waiting for the moment when he will go behind the camera and later bop out from under it. Boo! I missed my chance, didn't I? I think there's a table that can be used with an old meter to determine the level of moisture in the wood. I think weight of the woods is easiest way to determine its humidity. Yeah, I mean, I could do all that or I could just do what I'm gonna do whether or not the woods wet or dry and just like it's not gonna make a difference to me. Like I really wanna put the floors down so I can start doing stuff. Cause I think for the wood to really, really dry it's gonna take like a year, right?  I'd rather put down the second floor and start using it. And then in a year, if I want, then I can one section at a time, tell a kid, all right, move all your stuff over here, we'll fix your floor and then put everything back and then just do the sections. Let's see, Orsoka for a week and you are sure that it's 100%. Yeah, if I really wanna know how moist the wood is I can just put it underwater then I know it's 100%. I have seen handheld versions to read moist, oh my God, I don't care. Any concern about the vertical crack in that pillar? Where's the vertical crack in that pillar? I don't know, there are no vertical cracks in these pillars. I don't know, there might have been a optical illusion or something. The pillars, the pillars aren't, the cross section of the pillars is kind of like this. So I don't know, maybe you're seeing like that crease or something but there are no vertical cracks in any of these colors. I get me looking. I would be surprised if there was a vertical crack, a horizontal crack, I wouldn't be too surprised about, but a vertical crack, I'd be very surprised about. But I don't see any cracks in these ones over here. But anyway, any concern about the house being structurally sound? I mean, a big enough earthquake can take down anything. So I mean, it's pretty strong. There've been a few earthquakes here since I built the house and it's been totally fine. Let's see, any, it has stored a couple of years and many store, stood a couple of years and many storms. Oh yeah, the wind is no problem. The only thing I'm concerned about is earthquakes.  It did not fall in a few years. So it's better than some mega buildings leaning or collapsing when not finished yet. Oh yeah. Dang, this is going so fast. Well, thanks man. So it's like to see what is next way to go. Jamie, well next today is it's a sunny day. So I'm gonna go cut more of these boards because I have piles of these boards not planed or trimmed yet or anything. I don't know if I have enough to do the whole floor. I think I might be a little short. I don't know. There's a big pile over at the other side there. We'll see. I do still have some boards in the jungle too. Crap, I need to go get those. But I also need to do the stuff. I need a clone. I'll go get them tomorrow maybe. I don't know. The bones are solid concrete, only styrocrete for the exterior panels and the arts design and dome configuration is pretty robust. Yeah. Let me see. What would I be worried about breaking in here? I don't know. I think it's gonna be fine. But like I said, a big enough earthquake could take down anything. So I don't know. I am cooking faux noodles with smoked mussels. Main supports are solid. Will be super interesting when he gets up to the next floor. The next floor is gonna be amazing. But I gotta focus on this one first. I look forward to seeing the banked curves on the edge. Not sure how he plans that yet. Got the plans for that. You'll see. That one, it may lead to a foot going through that styrocrete. No, I don't think anyone's gonna go through the styrocrete. That would be about humidity. I bought last month a cheap clock. Actually, it would be pretty hard to go through the styrocrete here because there's all this, on the outer layer of concrete spackle, there's all this reinforcement, several ropes and stuff. So it'd be pretty hard to go through that. And some steel cables and stuff. Stainless ones. About humidity. I bought last month a cheap clock with temperature and humidity monitoring compared with Microsoft weather. And there are wild differences, not among clock and site, but on the site. There are two different values. Is the monitor in a conditioned space, central air, could make a large difference in humidity levels? I'm not getting air conditioning. How much does that wood swell, shrink, due to the humidity? I don't know. I think the humidity is gonna be, I mean, the humidity does change some, but it's gonna be relatively stable. I don't think there's gonna be a lot of swelling or shrinking. Oh, in that location, humidity is almost constant. Yes, voodoo spiker. Yeah, it's like always summer here. I guess this question would be more of a thing, like where I used to live, like in Vermont or Canada, where there's a winter when the humidity is like zero and then a summer when the humidity is like 80, 90%. That would be, that makes a big change. But here, yeah, it's like always summer. Is it more comfortable temps sleeping upstairs? I don't know. The temperature in here is pretty good. I've sweated, I mean, I stop sweating now. I was sweating while I was doing all this, but now that I'm not, you know, moving around, running around back and forth, picking stuff up, screwing, doing all that, it's pretty comfortable. The top of the tower is open with a cover and window open on main floor. You should get some airflow. So all my windows are kind of loose fitting so air can get in them. And then, yeah, there's an opening up at the top of the house, like way up there. So hot air goes out the top. Plus the styrofoam insulates the whole building pretty well. It doesn't, it's like pretty much always comfortable in here. The only time it gets hot is like in the afternoon, if I'm working on the floor here and the sun is on this side of the house coming in the windows, then it's like right on me. Then it's hot. So I'll just have to put up some curtains on this side. On the other side, the sun comes in the morning, but there's a bunch of trees there so it blocks a lot of the light. But this side, the sun comes right in in the afternoon. Anyway, too bad, you can't get Robertson screws. Oh, I can get Robertson screws. These are pretty good though. You can use Robertson as a square bit, right? You can use a square bit with these. Lighting is not great here. What if I, I don't know, I'm not gonna turn around and just gonna get the same bad lighting. Anyway, these are the ones that use this bit. I can't see it at all. Let's get in the dark, there we go. This bit here, so it's actually like a Robertson and a number three Phillips, kind of mashed together. So you can use a square drive on these, totally works. But this bit is like a square drive and the Phillips. And I like these, they work pretty well. I don't seem to be having any problems. G'day from Australia, g'day mate. No one likes a moist joint. It changed Zoom one time. Ah man, Jamie, freestay project, yeah. Wood stairs to shrink once it is below 30% moisture content in Panama, probably stabilize around 15. Expect about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All this, all this like measurement and like exact whatever, whatever. It all just kind of becomes irrelevant. Like it's gonna shrink as much as it shrinks.  What are you doing right now? All right, all right. Oh, and now I'm zoomed out even more. What the, this thing is so weird. Okay, Robertson screws, I mean, now it changed Zoom twice. Okay, so this guy's telling me about all the amount this wood shrinks, I don't know, whatever.  I don't know how much is dried. I don't know what the moisture content is. It doesn't matter, it's totally irrelevant. I'm putting the wood down anyway. So it's not actually important. I'm mailing you the maple syrup hopefully tomorrow, but I'll email you with some last minute details. Excellent. Don't termites not like sunlight. Termites do not like sunlight. Yeah, they definitely don't like sunlight. Which, you know, it really helps having a concrete walkway around my house because any termites that want to get to my house, they have to go across like a meter of like open, barren wasteland concrete where they just get cooked. What are your plans around the stair opening on the second floor? Sorry if you've already answered. I'm late and catching up. I have not, Vosco, what's up? I don't know. Maybe I'll put a railing there or maybe I'll just leave it. I was thinking about putting a big door there like in the floor so you can go up the stairs. And probably most of the time the door would just be open and I'll have it like attach pretty well sort of fall on someone's head. But there may be times like maybe if I'm having, if we're having like big races up here or something. Cause my kids and I sometimes have races. We'll do it downstairs, not with this kayak in the way. We haven't been able to do it in a while. But we'll have races downstairs and we'll run a certain number of laps and there will be this ridiculous announcer who calls everyone crazy names. And anyway, but up here, oh my God, the races are going to be amazing. And maybe I'll close the hatch so it has a bigger race floor and yeah. Yeah, that's what I think I'm going to do. I'm not totally sure yet, but I think I'm going to make a door in the floor that closes so that it's like there's just floor right across. Now you can obviously open when you want to use the stairs. It was a wavy rope-like mark.  Oh, are you talking about the crack? A wavy rope-like mark. Well, it might have been an actual rope. I don't know. Oh, there is a rope hanging right there on that pillar. So maybe that's what you were talking about. Yeah, there's a rope. Yes, the wavy rope-like mark I think was actually a rope. I thought it might be cool to have a table over the opening for some reason. Well, okay. I think the stairs up to the third floor are going to go right above the stairs up to the second floor. So it'll be like this and then like that. Yeah, now that you remind me of what goes above it, I think the stairs to the third floor are going to go right above there, in which case I should not put a door that closes it because it would be pointless. Okay, yeah, I think that's what's going on. Obviously I've not been thinking about this lately. Let's see, do your joists rest on concrete? Yes. Oh, the joists at the ends rest on concrete and then the joists going this way rely on screws. But not just screws, they rely on, well, they rely on screws that come in from the ends but then also screws coming down from the floor and I think I'm going to put glue in them. Okay, this is what I was thinking of doing in all the joists. I'm not totally sure if I'm going to do this, but I'm thinking about it. Let's see. So say this is the joist, God, it's like terrible. This is the joist that rests on the concrete, right? And then I've got the joists coming across. I was thinking about drilling a hole up inside and sticking a nozzle with spray foam and just like filling with spray foam all in there, which is just a polyurethane and then it would just be polyurethane glued, right? Which should make it super strong. And I think the screws on their own will be fine, but glued and screwed makes everything extra tough. No way Panama 15%, like now the map shows 80, 90, I don't know. Yeah, it's really humid right now, but yeah, I don't think it normally gets down to 15% humidity here. Are you going to whip out a floor sander when the board come up and shift? Oh my gosh, this just zoomed again. Stop auto zooming, let me pick my own zoom. Dude, seriously. Well, I don't think the boards are going to come up and shift because they'll be screwed down. However, even though I put everything through a planar, so they're pretty much the same thickness, there's a little bit of variation still. So it might be like half a millimeter off here and there and maybe up to a millimeter in some spots. So I want to go over the whole thing, I don't know, maybe with a sander, maybe with just a hand planar. Yeah, I'm not totally sure what I'm going to do there yet. I'm just going to try to get all the boards down first and then figure out what I want to do. But I might not, I don't know, because if I do that now and then they shrink over the next year and they shrink different amounts, I'm going to have to redo it again anyway. So maybe I won't worry about that right now, maybe I'll do that in a year. I don't know, because I mean, the floor is pretty good, even just like right now. Anyway, are you going to whip out? Is too much ocean, is too much ocean around and when raining of fog for sure is pretty humid. Daniel, if you need to work on your typing, if he shrinks his shrinks and then we'll get some nice work around those videos. I love seeing your problem solving skills that actually, yeah, I mean, it's going to shrink. I don't know if it'll shrink enough to move it or not. And if it does, yeah, it's not, I'll just deal with that when it comes up. On the video where you are planing boards, you pass the boards to the hill through the window right there. And a lot of people were commenting about how you could make a permanent access there. That sounds like a terrible idea. Yeah, I don't want to put a permanent access there. If I was going to put a permanent access over there, I would make it go up to the third floor, but I definitely don't need a permanent access into the second floor for several reasons. One, if I were to make that window taller into a door shape, it would go right into the side of the banked track part. So then what do I do? Just cut right through the banked track, which totally defeats the whole point. Or do you just step on that and fall on your face coming in? I don't know. I don't think there's any reason to have a permanent access there. I don't want one. Possibly up to the third floor. However, I don't think I'm going to have an access there because then it just makes another way that bugs could get to the house, like termites and stuff. Right now, for termites to get into my house, they have to walk across like a meter of barren concrete and then walk around this concrete wall and find some way in. I don't need to give them away, like right into the second floor wooded area, which I'm spraying with borax anyway, but yeah. And I don't think it would be worth the amount of effort it would take to do it. It wouldn't be useful. I'm sure borax will work just as good with the constant humidity. I doubt it will shrink much. And if anything, maybe get a dehumidifier, which would help with the comfort of your home plus free sky water. I don't want a dehumidifier because it's a whole other, what's it called? It's just a whole other energy using thing that I'm gonna have to maintain. It just adds all this overhead to, it's fixing a problem that doesn't need to be fixed. It would just be putting all this energy. The same with getting like air conditioning. Like yeah, I could make it a little cooler in here. I can make it a lot cooler in here, but like it's not uncomfortable now. Like maybe it would be, wow, great. It's so amazing if you come in and it's cold, but like it's really just not worth the amount of effort and maintenance and the cost and blah, blah, blah. It's just like there are so many other things I could do with my life rather than figure out how to dehumidify and air conditioning and all this stuff. Now, if I was in a place that was like super duper hot and even insulating the building didn't help, that might be a different story. But here, like in the shade, it's insulated and I got really hot when I was doing the floor here for an hour, right? I was sweating when I started, when I sat down here and started talking, but right now I'm totally fine. Like I cooled down pretty quickly. It's very comfortable and it's full sun out right now. It's blue sky, it's full sun, no wind. This is like as hot as it gets and it's totally comfortable. They have very low wattage, yeah, I don't know. But I agree, simpler is better. Oh, simpler is better, yeah, I like that. What about the Go game? Oh, any of the kids interested in it. Daniel, you're the one who sent me that, yes. My kids play it a lot actually. Yeah, I got here, I don't know, like a month or so ago. I forgot to say something about it. But yeah, this guy sent me a game of Go.   You figure it out. And then they figured it out and they played a bunch of games and then they started drawing like pixel pictures with the rocks on the thing. And yeah, they played with it a lot. They're definitely enjoying it. Do you have a rough rule of thumb for length of acceptable cantilever on the floorboards? Looks like some overshoots support by a few inches. So no big deal and how thick boards. Okay, you're, let me see. No, nothing overshoots. I'm trying to think like nothing overshoots. So I might be understanding what you're saying wrong, but I'm presuming overshoot means like this is a joist and a floorboard sticks out. And then I leave it like that, but there are no floorboards in here that are like that. Like they all, I mean, yeah, they all go up to halfway and then the next board goes on there. Come on. Yeah, everything, all the boards are supported right up to the ends. Although, if I was going to do what you're saying, you know, have a joist and have something sticking over, I mean, I would think that would be fine. You know, I wouldn't want to go much more than that, but it just depends, depends how thick the board is. I guess if I was doing it, I would do it and jump on a board and see if I can break one and then pull way back from the point where I can actually break one. And I would like try to break one, you know? But yeah, I mean, I don't really have a rule of thumb. I at this point, I have enough experience with materials. I would just kind of look at it and say, well, that looks like it's gonna be all right. But, and I would always err on the side of safety, particularly when I have kids and stuff. Oh, my bad. I saw some, but maybe just hadn't been trimmed yet. Well, there's, oh, I know what you're talking about. You're talking about, hold on, let me turn the camera on. So these boards over here, those are not attached. They're not even planed and cut. Those are just sitting there. These boards, these boards are final boards. They're like attached. They go right up to a joist. There's a joist right at that seam. All of these boards, and all the ones over there are gonna go out this, wait, no, out this window in a few minutes, well, not all of them, but as many as I can do today.  And today I'm gonna try to, I don't know, maybe I'll jump in the ocean every hour or something. I gotta do something to not overheat so much like I did yesterday. Any 3D printer project updates, I just gave my 11 year old one of my old ones and she loves it, oh, that's awesome. Well, I haven't really done anything lately. I've just been busy. I'm like going from sun up to sun down. Even right now just sitting here talking, I'm getting this nervous feeling like, gotta go, gotta go, gotta keep working. So I'm gonna get off here in a minute. But I did make new Lego tank treads that have better dimensions. Because the original Lego tank treads that I made, I put them up on Thingiverse, they, like when you put them together, they don't come out to like the perfect size that you can just put two gears and have them fit right. You have to kind of like have them a little bit loose or have like a, what's it called, like a third gear to take up the slack. And that happened because I got the dimensions from other people's tank treads, like Lego tank treads, which I don't know. I was like, well, everyone seems to be making them this size. That must be the right size. And like, no, that's not the right size. So then I was like, well, let me just make some that are the way I think they should be. And they're, I like them much more. So I'll have to put those up on Thingiverse. But yeah, I don't have anything super super amazing going. How's the fart tank dragon scales? Dude, I just, I haven't done anything with those. I'm working on the floor. I'm working on some digimages. I'll get to those. They're not high priority at the moment. There are definitely things I need to get down at some point, but yeah.  And yeah, I want to make a suitcase that has a solar panel and battery that can run normal household appliances. Any advice while I'm in the brainstorming stage? I don't know. It sounds like a fun project. Just do it, man. I would use, I mean, you're probably already going to do this, but for the battery, I would use lithium iron phosphate, you know, the LifePo4s. Other than that, I don't know. It's pretty straightforward. If you're talking about it, you probably already understand all the stuff that I could say. Sounds like a cool project, man. Can you send us pictures? We want to see. Okay, Ken says, last question for me. How much lighter is concrete compared? Oh, sorry. How much lighter is styrocrete compared to regular? Wanted to make a bunker. Styrocrete is way, way lighter, you know, obviously. I don't know. What do we think? It's maybe like 20% of the weight. It obviously depends how much styrofoam you put in it and how much sand and cement. You can just do styrofoam bits and cement with no sand and then you get a really light thing. Like you can get like five or 10% of the weight of concrete. But if you want to make sure all the gaps are filled and mix some sand in with it, or you could actually just make sure your styrofoam grinder grinds some bigger chunks and some like really, really fine chunks. So it takes up all the space. But yeah, I would say anywhere from five to 20% of the weight of regular concrete, depending on what you put in it. Oh, let's see. Wow, that's amazing. Thanks for all the replies. No problem, man. Oh, if you're in a cold climate, look into battery heating. Lithium doesn't like cold. This is for the suitcase thing, I guess. Hello, Dr. Wizard, Jamie. Hey, what's the total height of the dome? Oh, the total height of the dome. I did know this at one point. It's like 30, well, each floor is eight feet. So one, two, three, four. Like, but then that top part sticks up a little bit. So like 32, 33 feet tall, which is about 10 meters. Yeah, it's about 10 meters. Let's see, did I miss anything? Household appliances consume a lot of power. You will need heavy duty batteries. Of course, it depends which household appliances you're using, but yeah, if you feel comfortable speaking on this, I'd like to know if you would ever still visit the States. Why did you leave? Man, why do people ask such big questions right at the end of these things? Okay, I've done some videos on this in the past, but I left the States because of eroding freedom. Like, and some of this has changed since then, but for one thing, homeschooling your kids was a huge ordeal, you know, back in the day.  So that was a problem. And then just being in the culture where all the kids around me had their little devices, their little screens that they looked at all the time. And I'm just like, who are my kids gonna hang out with?  Like, I gotta get my kids out of here into some place where kids play in the dirt and climb trees and, you know, stuff like that.  So, I mean, that was a big part of it. Like, I'd been feeling like I wanted to leave the States for a while, but when I had kids, I was like, okay, I gotta get out of this culture. I have to get into a more, just a more family-oriented culture where, yeah, just a better place to raise kids, where I can raise them in nature. Okay, so besides the whole kids thing, one of the big things for me is I wanna be able to improve my home. My home, my land, just my whole property in general. Like, I wanna be able to constantly be improving my life wherever I am, right? In the United States, where I was living in Vermont, for a while, I was getting away with just doing whatever I wanted, you know, making buildings and making a spring house for the spring and just doing all this stuff that made my life better. But eventually, partly because I was doing the YouTube videos and stuff, I ended up being in just like the local newspaper a couple of times, and then on the local news, oh my gosh, stop changing the Zoom. It's annoying. What is this? Anyway.  And I'm just like, so anything I do here, anything I do to improve my life, I have to pay for now every year for the rest of my life. And the guy's like, well, that's the way it goes. And I was just like, no, no, this is not okay. Like people should not be accepting that. That is, oh, it's just, like besides the fact that it's horribly oppressive to have that level of strict control over your life, it's incentivizing the wrong behaviors in people. It's punishing people for doing hard work to improve their lives. And it's incentivizing people to not do anything to improve their lives. And that's, yeah. And there's a whole bunch of stuff like that, just like the culture. And I think a lot of it had to do with being in the Northeast, on the East Coast, where kind of the lefties are mostly in control and it's very communist and very controlling and all this stuff. And some people will get upset at me for saying that, but that's what it is, at least from my perspective. Maybe if you like that stuff, it doesn't seem like that to you, but yeah, it's just a whole bunch of stuff like that. And in my life here, my kids go outside and hang ropes from a tree and build their own swing. And they're like playing the dirt and they're climbing trees and they're like, I can build all this stuff and they can help me with it. You've probably seen in some of the videos, my kids will help me like put screws in, move boards around. And like they're learning all this stuff and having fun. Like it's just, I couldn't do this stuff in the United States or Canada. I knew someone who built a house in Canada and it took them like a year and a half just to do the paperwork before he could even start building and he was not allowed to build the house himself. He had to hire all the official people and he could help, you know, carry some stuff around but he couldn't do it himself. Like here I can do all that stuff. I can build my own boat and actually drive it. One of the things I really wanted to do when I was in the United States is to build my own car. But like trying to build your own car and then to get it registered and all the stuff. It's like, yeah, forget it. It's just, there's so much human energy wasted on just mumbo jumbo nonsense in North America. And like right now I'm trying to get my passport renewed because I need it for something.   So anyway, I moved here and here there's much less government oversight, I guess. There's much less control. Like you're basically, I'm basically kind of on my own to succeed or fail based on my own actions. And I like that and I like that my kids see that and my kids can see me working hard on things and then producing results, changing our lives and they understand that hard work makes some kind of results which is not the culture in the United States at least where I was living. Maybe there are other places, areas of the United States that would have been better. Maybe I'd have to go to Texas or something. I don't know. If kayak ends up being a little too tippy, would you just modify blank to have flatter bottom? Yeah, I was thinking about that. So I'm making this kayak blank to make a mold for kayaks. And I think I'm just, I'm, yeah, you know there's this, it's like a debate between performance and stability, you know? So I'm, I think I have a pretty good balance but we'll see when I get one in the water. If it's too tippy, then yeah, I can modify the blank and make a new mold, which will be annoying but it's not that big a deal. Like I'll just have to keep the blank in good condition until I'm sure that, you know, I have a good kayak. So, but I think this one's gonna be good. I don't know, we'll see. Part of it is when I do all the sanding, I'm gonna change the shape of it in some areas kind of a lot. So I'll have to see after I do that. This is weird how this thing keeps changing the zoom and now my face is so close. Let's see, where was I? Thank you for taking the time to share your progress with us. Thanks, thank you for appreciating, man. You're awesome, Jamie. Enjoy the day full of sun with the sawmill but definitely take a break to cool off every hour or so. Yeah, so right where the sawmill is, if I go down the hill from there, there's the ocean right there. So I'll probably just have to jump in the ocean every hour or so. Good for you. If you ever want to vacation with your family, I don't think, I mean, this is like my vacation. But if you ever want to vacation with family and help me build my homestead, I'm creating, I'd love to have you. I don't think there's any chance that's gonna happen because I could come help you build your homestead or I can build my own homestead with my kids here and I don't actually have to go anywhere. So I'm probably just gonna be here. But you know, random question, who built the pyramids of Giza when and how, I don't know. I know this is a big debate about when they were made. They were probably made earlier than that the standard thinking thinks they were, but yeah, I don't know. I got other things to worry about. I think, you know, here's what I think about all that stuff. Like while we're in a state of civilization where we're fighting over stupid nonsense, like what's true based on people's political leanings or based on their religious beliefs, like we're never gonna get anywhere. You know, we're just mired in, it's another example of just wasted human potential, wasted human energy.  No, it was this. No, it was that. No, it was this.  Let's actually learn. But until we actually have that state of mind where we're like, okay, let's put aside all our nonsense and actually try to learn the truth until we start doing that, we're just gonna have all kinds of dumb ideas about what happened in the past and will happen in the future and blah, blah, blah. You can't get to any kind of truth when people are just bickering over nonsense based on political and religious beliefs and all this stuff. This goes through changing zooms to things again. Yeah, I know, right? Here I am wasting hours watching YouTube videos on a little screen. Yeah, get off the screen, everybody. Okay, how about this?   Yep, if you pay property tax, you don't own it, you are merely leasing it. Yeah, that's one of the problems with land in North America. You never own your land. You're just renting it from the government, which is not the way it ever... So the United States was supposed to be this place where people were getting away from that kind of control over people's lives. And it kind of was like that for a while, but over time, all that freedom has eroded and it just kind of turned, it's just turning back into England. And it's really sad because the United States had so many amazing developments. Like there was so much incredible progress in the United States because people had freedom. But now today, for the most part, people are convinced that when people have freedom, they just ruin everything. But no, when people had freedom in the United States in the earlier days, they produced so much, they developed so much stuff. And now there was some bad stuff too, but there was also a lot of good stuff.  You gotta look at the whole picture, you know? Like, yes, there are bad things done, that's also a thing that needs to be addressed. But the fact that people had all this freedom meant there were all these good things happening. Don't confuse the two. Anyway, it's really, this is, I was talking about marketing yesterday in my terrible live, where I was half drunk from just overheating. And I was talking about how horrible marketing is. And yeah, marketing, just that whole way of thinking, that's what's screwing up the ability for people to learn truths about things.  It just makes a big mess. It just takes truth and just craps all over it. USA is one big tax farm. It has become that, yeah. Ah, yeah.  Democratic nonsense, yeah, there for the wood moisture. Ow, it's over. Okay. My Faraday document bag came to Faraday document bag. What is that? Building four solar generators. All right, I'm gonna go, the sun is out and I've got a lumber mill and a planar that are begging to do some work. And I got a whole bunch of boards here that are chainsaw cut that need to be flattened out. And I hope everyone has an excellent productive day too. All right, I'll catch you guys later. All right, where's the button? There's a button.


Hello and welcome to NewsClick. I'm Puranjali Goharthakurtha and with me here from Kolkata, I have Johar Sharkar. Johar Sharkar is a former Secretary, Ministry of Culture in the Government of India. He's a retired officer belonging to the Indian Administrative Service and he's also a former Chief Executive Officer of Prasad Bharti Corporation. The government-owned organization that runs Durdarshan All India Radio. So Johar, thank you so much for giving NewsClick, the viewers of NewsClick, your valuable time. I see you are living up to your reputation and you have become a trenchant critic of many decisions and of the current government. So today we are going to focus on the new information technology rules which were issued really in late February and it has a convoluted name. The information technology intermediary guidelines and digital media ethics code rules. And these have been a matter of considerable contention. It's under litigation as we talk and I was going through your detailed article which was published in March 12th of March in The Wire where to summarize what you've said you have said that this is a clear case of overkill. Now we're going to discuss in detail the three segments of the new rules. One would be the social media, social media such as WhatsApp and Instagram and Facebook and Twitter. Then we're going to talk about the OTT platforms or the over-the-top platforms which include Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hotstar etc etc and which includes films which have been controversial of late including Thunder. And last but not the least we're going to talk about news and what we call online news and digital online news. But first George, if you can give us an overview why did you consider this a case of overkill? It's both overkill and overstretch. My primary contention was that the existing provisions of both the IT Act, Information Technology Act, there are four scattered subsections that have been referred to and also the Constitution, the second schedule where the bars are laid out. None of them seem to convey that the information and broadcasting ministry is empowered to go into such a vast area. Now there is always this balance between free speech and restrictions and it's going on in favor of one and two are well aware. Now whether the Constitution, I've started with the Constitution and the two items, three items listed under the second schedule, empowering the information and broadcasting ministry, I've also referred to what we call the allocation of business. The allocation of business was quietly amended in last November, quietly amended and nobody noticed it. Whereby the information ministry was now empowered, so to say in quotes, to get into this area. But that's highly debated and I'm sure this will be trashed out in the courts very soon because we get the indications, two, three parties have already gone to court. Now, including the wire, including the publishers of the wire. Including the wire. So they're based on these so-called tenuous powers. This document has been drafted somewhere between the lawyers and the bureaucrats because I can see a lot of verbose bureaucrates as we call them, wish list after wish list coming in and spoiling the sharpness of the act. Okay, now the three categories that you just referred to, I'm reiterating because they need to be understood by people in the right context. In one go, the IT Act, which gives the, let us say the solar energy, so to say, the IT Act wishes to control number one, WhatsApp and other forms of social media. Number two, they're going for control of OTT films and serials. And number three, they desire to control the online media. Now, what's the difference? Let me explain. What's common is all of them are known as over the top technologies. In other words, they do not use either wire or cable or towers or these sort of communication, traditional forms of communication. They go straight to the satellite and come down to you. It's almost like mobile technology. So they have been enjoying a certain degree of freedom. Which perhaps required regulation to some extent, sense regulation is best, but this government comes up, drums up a lot of restriction and say these are all self-regulating. As long as you come home by seven o'clock, as long as you abide by this sort of Indian logic has been used. Now, these three sectors that I've just pointed out, what is common between WhatsApp and Netflix? Tell me. What's common between Amazon Prime and the wire? What is an audiovisual method? The other is an alphanumeric. So to say with a couple of visuals thrown in, these are separate entities, separate platforms that have all been bundled together. And in bundling together, the controls of one have been extended to the other rather mindlessly. I have been secretary in patches in the ministry of I and B. And if I'd seen such a draft like that, I'm sure I'd have thrown it back. Jordan, I'm stopping you here. I want to go into some detail into each of these three points that you have discussed. And I want to go into the excruciating detail, the so-called fine print. But just now for the time being, just sticking to the big picture, you have said clearly that here is the government flexing its muscles. And you are clearly, I mean, you've used very strong language. They are muscles, they're using the muscles in the wrong place. Okay, we've even called it a sort of hegemonic overreach, very characteristic of the present regime, which you described as aggressive. And you even say that you haven't named him the former attorney general of India Mukul Rohatgi has even felt that the social media rules have been hastily put together, which according to you is a resounding indictment. Okay, now I want you to just first talk about one point. This whole issue and this we are nearly talking about the digital media platforms. We are really talking about WhatsApp. We are talking about Twitter, Instagram, etc., etc., Facebook. And this is where we know now why we had two ministers addressing the media. One was the information and broadcasting minister, Mr. Prakash Javdekar. And we also had the minister in charge of communications and the department and NETI, that's the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology, Mr. Ravi Shankar Prasad. Now, the point is, you have something called Section 79 of the Information Technology Intermediary Guidelines Rules. The Act is of the year 2000. The rules were put together in 2011, which is supposed to provide what is called a safe harbor to intermediaries for that host, what are called user-generated content. And it exempts them from liability. To put very simply, so an internet service provider, an email service provider, social media platform, when somebody posts, uploads or publishes some information on it, it is its user-generated content without editorial control and it's exempt from liability. Now, how are these provisions and how are these rules now being changed? Well, these have all been superseded. It starts by superseding all existing rules. This omnibus rule that has come up in 2021 supersedes all previous rules and subsumes part. So, that part is clear. And anyway, the short point is, look, these are huge platforms. You have yourself quoted the government's own statistics and you're pointing out the large numbers of people who are availing of the services provided by these social media platforms. We thought WhatsApp had 400 million users, but now we learned that the, sorry, that's 40 crore you say, but now we learned this more than that. It's now more than 50 crore. Now, Facebook has 40, 41 crore users according to the government. Instagram 21 crore. These are mind-boggling numbers as you yourself pointed out. Twitter has less than two crore users, but it has become as to use your language metaphor, metamorphosed in the recent past into a more than official international notice board on which political and opinion leaders pin their views, musings and provocations. So, if you have 53 crore Indians using WhatsApp. 53 crore. Yes, 53 crore Indians are using WhatsApp. You need some regulation and the government has been talking about regulation and it's not just regulation. There has been a huge amount of contention on what is called the traceability of the originators of the content, because these are providing what are called end-to-end encryption.  We don't know who's generated that content, who's receiving the content. What do you do? Do you not need some sort of regulation? I have said that some regulation was required and it is not as if the platforms are not exercising regulation. The platforms have been exercising a lot of screening behind the back. Now, WhatsApp is intensely popular. It covers more than half the adult population of India. Our adult population above 14 is around 100 crores and it covers around 53 crores. That means A, because it is free. First is because it's free. The explosion in its membership actually reveals the sense of trauma, the sense of fear that prevails that if I use WhatsApp, if I use SMS, A, I'll have to pay for it. B, it's open media, it can be cracked and I'll be branded as a regime dissenter and anti-national god knows what as a decisionist. So, people are using WhatsApp as a shelter from Big Brother. That's the first point. The second issue on which I have been insisting, if you have powers to say laser eliminate, eliminate by laser, certain growths that are not conducive to health, for God's sake do it, but do it in the right place.  At 90% of the fake news that circulates in WhatsApp, one can see from the mensphere, from the intention, from the gains of those who have circulated it, that they are ultra-rightists. Most of them are anti-Muslims. Most of them condemn the condemn morality. Most of them attack libtards. Now, why would a libtard attack another libtard? We have not bereft ourselves of common sense. So, all of these are factory produced. I'm using what factory produced within India or by some of these vicious supporters outside at fake. There are factories, organized factories that produce these fake news and that's why we kept referring to what you call WhatsApp University. It's a whole school that has come up in the last I'll just quote you. As you pointed out, everybody knows that WhatsApp and similar within QuartzSafe messaging services actually offer a much needed shelter to millions of common citizens who are paranoid about big brothers constantly roving eyes and need end-to-end encryption to speak their minds, even in a democracy. Maybe you should have put democracy in quotes as well, but that's another story. And then you go on to say that it's quite utopian to expect a regime that cites on fake and exaggerated news and on hatred to act against these organized factories and depraved individuals who produce such poison. And what baboos feel about collaborating with the regime's skewed and perverse emphasis is however a matter left to their conscience. You're being very charitable towards your own tribe of baboos I would say. You're a former babo I would say. I have left it to their conscience because mine was a very troublesome one which landed myself into a lot of trouble also. They may have some of them surely have more convenient ones, but nevertheless getting back to WhatsApp as a prime case of how an intermediary is being misused. WhatsApp is the biggest drain. I use the word drain because it contains filthy material and round the clock people reinforce each other's prejudice. I mean, I get some from crackpots 5 to 10 that says that Hindus built the Taj Mahal. I know it's around 25 years old that crackpot called PNO brought out there. So these are circulated again and again mythical stories about India's greatness. I mean the entire agenda of the Hindu right comes out in bucketful. My question, some of them are vicious, some of them are malicious, some of them are provocative, some of them attract the law. So let me see if you use your law to get to them. Okay. Okay, Johoda, let's talk a little bit about the so-called online curated content. You know the film and the web series and let's talk specifically about two aspects. One is so-called obscene content and the other is so-called hateful content. Let's look at both these aspects and you have been very sarcastic. I quote you as saying after its runaway success in outsourcing violence to vigilante groups, it meaning our regime discovered it was easier to outsource the business of tormenting defined voices through hypersensitive proxies and these are ideologically in total sync with the regime and pounds on liberals and perceived heretics and they file criminal cases and first information reports claiming that their religious or cultural sentiments have been hurt and the police as well and several magistrates are quite willing to throw the book at dissenters. Look, we've had serials like secret games in at least I haven't seen the kind of depiction of violence and say full-frontal nudity that you saw there or Mirzapur but you have another more recent example of Tandem where Amazon Prime apologizes for allegedly offending the sentiments of Hindus. Now here are two things you've talked about offending religious sentiments and the second is obscene content. I'd like you to dwell a little bit about both on both these aspects of the new regime. Obscenity has been described and calibrated year after year for the last 150 years at least. So we know where we stand and what shouldn't be shown to what audience. Sains that are quite common in the West would still be let us say quite controversial in India. So there the INP ministry has some amount of legal power. I've seen check their powers and film and cinema screening is part of their past. The problem is they can't set up sensor boards for all these things and get it. It's an industry problem. They can't unlike exhibition films that are shown in halls that have a run that go through the sensor process. The INP ministry is trying this process of initiating complaints. This rule relating to films and serials and to the next book that is called Digital Online Media. I don't know how the two can be jumbled because as I've said they are different from each other as chalk is from cheese. But anyway, they two have been bundled together and the entire machinery of hegemony there, control there is derived, is achieved by these proxy complainants. I have used the term proxy because they are standing 10% for the regime and yet are not distinctly part of the regime. Many of them are of course office bearers of BJP and this and that but most of them try to be more discrete. So discretion was never a part of their culture. They are mainly proxies and these proxies have actually started their game around four, five years ago. Every time a journalist says something that is on the borderline according to them or offending their easily very easily offended sentiments, somebody files an FIR. You remember that famous FIR that was filed in Bihar against the 15, 20 of us saying that we had offended. I mean everybody was there and finally the superintendent of police felt it was enough for them. Usually what happens is the Thanedar accepts them for the glory of it. The junior magistrate accepts them so that he gets a chance to see the celebrity and things like that. I mean, these are very cheap feelings, but the sum and substance of it is by finding these official cause of action should have been that if you really feel offended with the section, you draw out the powers under the Indian penal code, you draw out your own powers and go in through a public prosecution if you have the guts. But when you're not sure and when you're not sure of your ground and when you would like this to be sort of offloaded from your public prosecution system, you give it to someone who's a Bhakt. I mean, that's the only term we can use who's again ably supported by other Bhakt lawyers and financed by people I would not like to mention and they go on harassing journalists so it started first journey and now it matured into films. Alright, I'm going to talk about journalism and news a little later, but before that, you know what you call a classic example of unfettered and convoluted administrative thinking. At one level you say you control yourself, you regulate yourself, you have a press council code, you have a program code under the cable television rules, but then you also say you're trying to have new categories universal, adults under seven years, above 13 years, above 16 years, parental guidance, how do you ensure parental guidance in today's day and age of smartphones?  There are two aspects to what I've said there. Number one, the code itself is an exercise in bureaucratic language. It conceives of controls that are impossible to execute. Why use the term bureaucratic language is because left to himself, a bureaucrat would think in terms of ideals and this is the ideal situation, this is what it should be done. His proposals are tempered by the political class that has greater links with the masses and know what is possible and what is not. In this one, you look at the 5-fold divisions. The 5-fold divisions where age groups are given between 14 and 16 and this and that, it's bizarre. How do you see a movie or a serial now? Do you carry your birth certificate with you? Who would come and check that who's watching what? So you have left a biased desire and you can grimly say, this is a thing that is bugging. We broke and asked you how? You said parental guidance. I have hardly seen parents sort of guiding their youngsters, keeping them on their laps or something, unless they are really underage, really underage. So this parental guidance is another thing that has come from some Babu's mind, which means nothing. Can we talk a little bit about this whole grievance redressal system? About? The grievance redressal system. Addressing grievances real, imagined or regime sponsored. Now you're saying these grievance officers, I mean this entire system is all up to the Babu's. Everything is up to the Babu's. I mean they are going to decide what is good, what is bad, what can be shown, what cannot be shown and you yourself pointed out, far from being a soft-handed or a regulation with a right touch, far from it being what the government claims a minimal government interference, you're actually going to see heavy-handed regulations, where according to you, a such a system may enable a single, one single, aggrieved person to effectively finish off torpedo, you say, a digital media production. And so the so-called authorized officers will wield huge powers, powers of control and censorship. Understand the level of grievance disposal, there's a bell curve, there's a bell curve. Instead of going straight up in one, two, three, I'm using the term bell curve and you'll catch it. The first level of grievance is disposed by the companies or the firm's grievance officer. Now he's given 15 days time to respond. Now all we need to do is to send in 20 complaints. And in 20 different complaints generated by a computer, he would have to give 400 replies. So you can easily block that channel. On the 15th day, you say, I haven't got my reply. Therefore, I go on appeal. Where do you go on appeal? You go on appeal to a self-regulatory body that is chaired by a Supreme Court, a retired Supreme Court judge or a retired High Court judge. The gentleman sits with six advisors and they decide that this one is worth picking off. So the sent an advisory to the company this is not on, you need to abrogate, you need to do this.  And then this super sensitive, a griff person goes to the third one. Now who's above a Supreme Court judge or a High Court judge? Well, joint secretaries are there, deputy secretaries are there. So the third level of body called government is actually a body, an inter-departmental committee, IDC, that is chaired by a person called authorized officer who's bound to be a hatchet man, bound to be a hatchet man of the government. This authorized officer sits in judgment with eight deputy secretaries. They all have to be junior. The bureaucracy is very prickly. If he's a joint secretary then I'll send deputy secretaries and directors. I can't send another joint secretary because he'd feel humiliated. So all these games go on. So we have now a joint secretary to the secretary to the government of India, sitting with eight deputy secretaries and directors deciding in effect the ruling by the Supreme Court judge.  So I think we'll have to wait and watch and see how the Supreme Court interprets this. And many people believe that these rules are not just unconstitutional and illegal. But the kind, I mean people believe the way executive power and control has been extended, it's aimed at regulating online news media to the detriment of freedom of expression. And many, many believe that the way the whole rules have been put together and suddenly imposed on all of us without any prior consultation. The secretary who looks after two gigantic departments, a regime favorite obviously. He looks after information, also looks after education, two hatchet jobs. He said that no consultations are necessary. He looked very grim, he is always grim and he says that no consultations are necessary. No consultations are necessary. Even the height of arrogance, the height of arrogance. So he said no consultation and this was introduced without consultation and all rules, remember all rules have to lie on the table of parliament which means they are circulated among the members for a minimum period. This was also not followed. So it's a fact for some can go to court and say you have not followed the rule procedure.  Okay. My last question to you, Johar Dam. It's clear that the present regime is upset with many digital or online news publishers because they've been raising questions. They've been raising uncomfortable questions. They've been putting out stories which the main so-called mainstream media has not been doing. Now we also have the government justifying what it's done. He said you don't, you know, a publisher of news and current affairs is not defined under the Information Technology Act. It excludes any paper. So the vagueness of the definition is such that you need to control these guys. Or at least that's the official justification for it. But what does it really mean in terms of freedom of expression? Article 191A of the Constitution of this country. I mean, it's not just the publisher's right to publish. What about the citizen's right to know? So this is really the bigger question that I would like you to sort of comment on and give us your concluding remarks on these new rules that have been put in. The digital media or digital online media as we call them have been the only OASIS in this otherwise very bleak scenario where the mainstream media has either been bullied, casual, blackmailed, overpowered, covered with advertisements and they've gone through a very hellish period of obedience. Now there are a couple of them like Hindu and telegraph that are still standing out but God knows how long they'll be able to do. Now having said that, it is an online media that have been reflecting news, analysis and others that the mainstream media or as Ravish calls it the Godi media, refrain from doing. This online media was one of the prime targets under this act. But first of all, it is completely doubtful whether you have any control over online media. That's the point on which the constitutionality of the whole thing on which wire and other group propeller they have gone to go. See, I started by saying you don't have constitutional power, you don't have legitimate sources of authority. That part, you see under Rule 15, the authorized officer whom I have called the Hatchet man, I've seen so many of my officers being picked up for services and then switching sides also after that. Rule 15, he can with approval of the Secretary, direct the publisher at any minute to delete, modify, block the relevant content and information generated, transmitted, received, stored.  He can just tell you, you can't bring out this item about powers reward. You can't. That's all. That's all. All you need to do is to make out a case that this leads to a security problem which in turn generates a UFA problem and therefore leads to sedition and therefore leads to anti-national activities. And the merciful part is if you don't jail all of them, which has been happening. So these are draconian measures. These are dragon's teeth and these have to be, if I might, these have to be controlled right in the first stages of constitutionality. What the, many of the Babus in the government don't know or the ministers don't know that everything can be evaded by VPN. VPN, in the virtual private network, you can operate without getting into any radar whatsoever. So what material will be put on VPN is a matter that will be decided by the mass and the economic biography of the item. That's all. Thank you so much. Pani, the whole thing will go on the ground. All right. Thank you so much, Joharda for giving us your views and explaining in detail the implications of the information technology intermediary guidelines and digital media ethics code rules and why according to you, they are draconian and could sow the dragon seeds. I'm using your language of curbing dissenting voices in the media in this country.


The National Orientation Agency, NOA, in partnership with Tom Rock, IHOB, Mortivus, the Fooder Center for Democracy and Development, CDD, and Center for Journalism, Innovation and Development, CJID, has rounded up the ninth series of its national fact-checking cause in the federal capital territory, Abuja. Speaking to the, speaking out a closing ceremony, the Director General of NOA, Dr. Gadubah Bari, reviewed that after the conclusion of the 2023 general election, a heated struggle emerged to divide public sentiments fostering animosity through the dissemination of fabricated news, false information, and misleading content. We in the National Orientation Agency will continue to play the role we should be playing to counter fake content because of this abusive, counterproductive, disintegrative role it plays in our social public. Social media has come to stay. We have to make the best use of it. Recently, you must have been seeing the full over the miso ma, miso ma fake, fake jam results issue. It has become the most topical issue of discussion in our country today. Ordinarily, it shouldn't be the case. Ordinarily. And this is how some of the issues that we in the NOA must have to grapple with. A simple matter that should have been handled quietly by the exoneration body has been allowed to power as if the entire foundation of the country is miserable. And it tells you a lot about our institutional integrity, you know, how that is possible in our national institutions.


Okay, Adolfo is going to go over VEX and how you would show, you know, maybe a vulnerability is affected and then maybe you do more research and you realize it's not affected. He's going to cover how you would show those changing statuses of relationships. Thanks. All right. Yeah. So let's go a little bit on two VEX. So for those who are not familiar, VEX, which stands for Vulnerability Exploitability Exchange, is a way of conveying the actual impact that a vulnerability has on a given piece of software. Because once, as we were seeing S-Bomb information starting to increase and flow even more, so do the number of false positives and other information detailing, like starting to light up security dashboard shortcuts, right, because you have more visibility into your supply chain and those components start to show up, especially, and this is especially true for, because sometimes when you ship software, for example, things like base images who include software that you don't really need, they start to light up and flag vulnerabilities that may not necessarily impact your piece of software. So to understand this, I want to give a short example. So the first thing I want to point out is if you saw in Rosa's previous examples, the security profile is about conveying the disclosure of security information. So you have to think about the information flowing regarding to security as flowing different cadences. So the first one is you have the S-Bomb, which is supposed to be static, because once you publish a piece of software, it's supposed to never change, right, because if you issue a new piece of software, it needs a new S-Bomb because it's a different thing. And then on top of that, you have the security information. You have a vulnerability, and when that's released, it has a set cadence, it should also not change, but the assessments of those vulnerabilities start to change. More information gets known, more people are looking at it, are issued in opinions of that vulnerability, and it starts to change. And the same is true for the impact of the vulnerability with a given piece of software. So I'm going to retake the example of Bob's browser. I think I took a subset of that by centering on Bob's browser. So Bob's browser contains a version of Carl's compression engine. So in this case, what's going to happen is that someone is going to find a CVE that affects that it's contained in Carl's compression engine. So if Carl's compression engine has that CVE, that means that at some point Bob's browser is going to start to get flagged as vulnerable. So the first thing that's going to happen, and the vex author, which in this case, you should have an authoritative source of vex information, is going to be Bob, right? Because if you think about it, if you're running Bob's software, then you can pretty much give him, you're already trusting him of understanding what he's shipping. And he may understand the impact that this CVE has on his browser, which came through this dependency here. So the first thing that a vex author might do is issue an under investigation message. In vex, the idea of vex is people start sending down-the-wire messages of the known impact of vulnerability that has on software. And if you think about the SPDX, the great thing about the SPDX is that it has all of these wonderful sets of relationships that let you communicate how all of these pieces relate to each other. So what we did in the security profile is overload, I don't know if that's the right word, but supercharge might be better, those relationships with more information to convey the vex status, just as we did with the security assessments. So once the CVE hits and it gets published, Bob starts looking into it and the first thing that he should do is inform people that, okay, I'm looking at this vulnerability and how it affects my software. And then after that, he may find, so the under investigation relationship has a field where it lets you point, I'm looking at this CVE in my browser, but assessed looking at it because I know it's contained in Carl's compression engine V31. And then the next one is Bob will determine, okay, I'm affected. He sends the affected message down-the-wire and people can react to it. So you can enact policy because all of this is machine readable. So if your idea is, okay, I should patch, I should take care of it in my own hands, this is your starting message that you should start acting. Or the next one is, okay, let's say that Bob goes to Carl and says, Carl, can you patch the vulnerability? Carl may say, well, I'm the lonely maintainer in Nebraska. I cannot do that just now. So Bob may issue, like, take action and fix it by himself. So he releases B221 with mitigation for that, for the CVE containing Carl's compression engine. But if you think about it, and he's still shipping this as a vulnerability, as a component, it may still show up in the scanners because it's still containing there. Even though Bob has mitigated it in his piece of software, the CVE is still contained in his software. So what Bob issues is a new message that says, even though I'm shipping you Carl's compression engine with, which is affected in our CV, I have mitigated it. And in the, it's not like the security document in SPDX, I'm marking it as not affected. And so this is the way that VEX conveys messages down the wire. And so VEX is defined by a working group organized by CISA from the US. And this means that now SPDX joins a number of VEX implementations. So the working group defines VEX as an idea, as a spec of specs. And SPDX now joins Open VEX, CISA, and Cyclone DX as VEX implementations. And the, as we are just releasing it, the final VEX specification or document defining what the minimal requirements for VEX was released in January, SPDX joins Open VEX in being the only two fully compliant implementations of VEX. So the other two implementations, you can go from there to VEX, but not the other way around because you lose information, which is critical for a proper functioning VEX implementation. So that's the base of it. So, and this is one, and okay, so I'm going to turn it over to Karen, and, oh, yeah. So this is the point. This is the laser, and this is the pointer. Yeah, CVE reporting, right? But there are some time, some defects in the software. How do you intend to use VEX? So you can communicate some un-patched software. I'm thinking more on, not from CI, but more on availability perspective, like, you know, buffer overflow, et cetera, that a software developer can include. Have you guys thought about that? I'm sorry, I missed half of the question. Okay, the question is, this whole schema relies on CVE reporting, so you can include CVE. Are there an option where software developer can include some software defects that can be related to end user using VEX? It can extend beyond CVEs. It's been designed to work with other bug systems that are out there. So as long as you've got, that's why we call the group defects as opposed to vulnerabilities, because there are defects out there that we need to report in on. And so this is a mechanism that should extend there. But if it doesn't, we want to know this right now. This is why we're bringing this stuff forward. Yeah, and the other thing is VEX is not based around a software version. It's based around the product. And so it has this level notion around product. So product can be an SPDX package, but also a bigger software package. And it also has a vulnerability, just plain vulnerability. It's not tied to a CVE. It can also, I think if I remember correctly, the definition that we added to the vulnerability is any vulnerability that can be tracked that is registered in a tracking system. So if you have an in-house tracking system, it can point to that. If it has a reference, you can relate to it. That's where you can use the security external identifiers to say that I am the agency that's who assigned this ID for this defect. And then you can also use the external references to point to information about that defect. Thanks. It's a more general question to all the presenters. Can you please upload your presentations to the schedule? Thanks. Thanks. Can you go back to the slide with Bob and Carol for a second? I'm trying to get my understanding of the document flow improved. That's the one. So today, if I look at a 2.3 implementation, I created an SBOM. I have the description of what's in that particular application. So I've got Bob's SBOM, it includes Carol. I understand that I've got one document that was created. With VEX, am I effectively having a series of SPDX documents that are going to be part of the flow? And if so, what out of the original SBOM contents are part of that flow? So in other words, am I overloading a system that is just starting to figure out what SBOMs are all about with this additional data set that now needs additional mapping? So I'm just trying to get that clear in my head. Thanks. No. Ideally, you could issue just the document with the, so VEX and SPDX is our relationship. So you could issue just that document with the reference for the vulnerability and the reference for the product. Just the, even the subcomponent is just the identifier. So we only need those three in the document. So you start shipping those. So then I have an SBOM document itself that represents whatever was shipped. So Bob's 2.2, and now I'm going to have a number of relationship documents that will refer back to that original SPDX document. Exactly. Which should remain static because it's the same piece of software. Okay. And then when Bob creates 2.2.1, so then when Bob creates 2.2.1, well, there might be a component change if he did patch Carol's engine, or maybe there was something else that came along for the ride as part of the mitigation effort. But theoretically that SBOM is close enough, but it's still a mapping from that point forward. Exactly. I mean, in that case, it's a new SBOM because it's a new piece of software. So it's an additional. Yeah. Like Rose said. Yeah. I was just going to say that you can have multiple relationships and multiple vulnerability elements in one security profile SBOM. So you don't have to create a new quote, unquote document for each relationship, security relationship or each vulnerability. So that then allows me potentially to create a vulnerability mapping back to a previously ship piece of software that is using an older version of SPDX. Yeah. I don't, to SPDX 2.3. Okay. Yeah. So you can point to a 2.3 document, but you'll. Cool. Thank you. And not only that, you can also point to like the idea of Vex is when once you have like once we start getting like Vex processors, you can compile off that all of that information to piece together the impact story, which may not necessarily come all from SPDX. It can come from the other formats as well.


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