Welcome everyone to KubeCon North America 2020. Excited to give you a presentation today around the interesting SIG within Kubernetes SIG architecture. And hopefully we can give you a background and how you can get engaged and what our role within the project is. So we go to the next slide. I'm Derek Carr. I've been active in the Kubernetes. So the slide's not progressing, John. There you go. All right, virtual event. Well, I'm Derek Carr. I work at Red Hat. I've been active in the Kubernetes community since early inception. Presently serve on the steering committee and participate in SIG architecture and SIG node. And I'm joined today by John. Hi, I'm John Bellamerica from Red Google and I've been involved in Kubernetes since maybe, well, probably since late 2016, but primarily in SIG network. And then later in the last year or two in SIG architecture. So that's one of my primary areas of focus. Awesome. Well, hopefully with the two of us here, we can do a good job explaining how to engage in Kubernetes. All right. So let's take a step back and like remind everybody about the goals of the Kubernetes project. The project is maturing. But it's grounded by the goals that we've set out from its inception, right? Where we wanted Kubernetes to be portable across multiple clouds. We wanted to be kind of general purpose, not too opinionated. We want people to find value in multiple places. And that requires us to meet users where they are. And with that, when we design the project and the subsystems within, we want to ensure that we offer flexibility, extensibility, and points of integration or specialization to allow people to ultimately meet their needs. As a project, we aspire a lot to ensure that most of our procedures and practices are automated rather than manual. And we want to always ensure that like as a project, we don't stagnate and we recognize that users needs and platforms evolve. And so we want to make sure that we can keep promoting stable evolution of the project. So with those like framing goals in mind, we kind of go to the next slide here and we try to say like, well, those are great goals. And they hopefully allow the Kubernetes project to maintain long term success. But that only works if we back it up with community values that allow activities to scale. So one of the earliest things we did within Kubernetes was to define a governance model that prioritized distribution of responsibility among various groups within the project, rather than centralizing all decision making within a small few of individuals. Generally, we think if you know about networking, you should be exercising your domain and networking knowledge and have autonomy within that SIG. Same with, you know, Node or scheduling those people who work closest to that problem space know it best. And when we interface within the community, we want to make sure that we're representing the community rather than an individual product or company need, because by doing that, we're ensuring that everyone is ultimately being successful. As a community, you know, we always strive to do better and SIG architecture is no different than the rest. So we want to make sure that we're inclusive and hearing everyone's viewpoints. So if after seeing this presentation, you're inspired to join us in a SIG architecture meeting. I'm sure John or myself or anybody else who participates would would love to get your feedback and and help make your impact known in the community. And then the key point here on the community values, when we talked about the project wanting to ensure that it keeps advancing the state of the art, we need to ensure that like our community values evolve and don't stagnate themselves. So with that context in mind, if we go to the next slide, the communities project itself, as we said is composed of many SIGs, and there's kind of different ways you can look at SIGs. Some are very horizontally oriented, right? So they deal with the guts of how the communities project itself works, maybe the underlying API machinery or how authentication. And then some are more vertically oriented like scheduling the node networking storage. And then we have this specialized kind of group of SIGs, which we kind of look at from the project wide perspective. And SIG architecture was one of those early SIGs that while it doesn't have individual domain responsibility for any of those horizontal or vertical aligned areas, we do aspire to ensure that we can provide sufficient guidance and lessons learned across the communities community as a whole to ensure that every individual SIG is not repeating or encountering the same problems. And so today when John and I talked through the SIGs ultimate responsibilities, hopefully you'll see that the projects and practices we have running help keep ensuring that cube as a whole is successful. And so we'll go to the next slide. Sure. So as Derek said, SIG architecture fits as a sort of project scope SIG. And with that concept of distribution is better than centralization. We still see this need for sort of consistency and for a consistent bar across the project for that is bar of quality. And also for things like APIs, we have consistent set of conventions that we want to use so that the APIs from SIG network and the APIs from SIG node function essentially the same manner, not just the machinery but the structure of the API and the conventions around naming and things like that. Those general API conventions design principles, we're using declarative APIs with these reconciling controllers, things like that that are just fundamental to Kubernetes. Those live within this within this SIG. In addition, we work on some of these cross cutting policies. So things like how we deprecate features and APIs and the process by which we improve Kubernetes. So what are some of the other issues. It happens sometimes that a question will come up through a SIG that the SIG doesn't know how to answer. They want to make sure that it works in a consistent manner across what other SIGs may be doing. And those sort of things will come to SIG architecture to make decisions about or have discussions about. Sometimes SIGs will disagree, people within the SIG will disagree. At times they brought that to us as an escalation. We're really not an escalation point because again distribution is better than centralization. We're not alerting over all the other SIGs. We're setting policies across the project. So when those things come to us, we're not going to be overriding SIG decisions. But what we might be doing is talking about how those decisions might be made. Or what principles apply that might be repeatable within that decision making process. So I'm not sure what this last bullet is here. I didn't put it on here. But in general, we do like to solicit feedback from anybody in order to do that. You start a thread on our mailing list. SIG architecture. You're happy to join it. And once we've got a thread going, we try and resolve what we can on there before we actually talk about a meeting to try and be respectful of everybody's time. So subprojects. We have five subprojects within SIG architecture. One is the API review subproject, which essentially documents all of those conventions and design principles around the API. And also runs an actual review process where every time there's a PR that comes in that touches an API, there's a set of reviewers and approvers who will review that change. Make sure that it's adhering to those conventions and often give very good advice around how to improve your API. So it's a really valuable process that we've seen and we've gotten great results out of. We also have a code organization subproject. So here again is one of these larger structural things that the SIG handles. And this is about managing our dependencies and deciding what pieces of code can be moved out. We've got a set of staging repositories that allow us to sort of refactor the code a little more effectively and be able to import the code into other projects more effectively. So that's all managed by code organization. Conformance definition. We talked about a little bit earlier. That's the group that manages the conformance testing process decides which tests are to be deemed required for conformance and in effect defining what Kubernetes is. The enhancement subproject is new since the last QtCon here. It actually moved over from 6pm, which shut down. And that manages our Kubernetes enhancement proposal process. And that means how our engineers in the community can sort of get consensus around the features that they want to build and add. And how we can manage the progression of those features through alpha, beta and stable release and ensure the quality bar. As an adjunct to that, we've also recently added this production readiness review project, which runs a process, something like the API review process. But it's not reviewing code. Generally, it's reviewing a specialized section of the cap. So we've defined a set of questions that the developers must answer to ensure that the pieces of functionality and features we're adding to Kubernetes meet a bar of support availability. Awesome. Well, thanks, John. Many folks were new to engaging with Kubernetes. When we talk about these subprojects, they are literally like dedicated meetings that folks can join and participate in if they have a particular interest. And so while SIG architecture meets at a SIG-wide level at a biweekly cadence and topics for that meeting are usually generated through the mailing list. Individual subprojects, which John gave an overview on, have discrete meeting times to just focus on that particular activity as well. So one of those ones that we can talk a little bit about was around API review. A lot of people who engage with Kubernetes appreciate the fact that it has a relatively consistent API perspective. API review as a thing in the project was not something that was ultimately something that very few reviewers within the community had maybe the overall breadth of awareness and knowledge in the early formation of Kubernetes to ensure that that consistency happened. Within the API review subproject, though, now we're trying to figure out ways to scale that review process out further, but ensure that we don't lower our standards and that as new questions arise that we document those outcomes. So there's a project board if you're interested in checking out the activities that take place in that subproject. And as well, if you're just interested in understanding like the design philosophy around APIs and changing your APIs that Kubernetes aspires to follow, even in your own extension projects, which we talk about later, like as an ecosystem, it's great if we can all be aligned. I strongly encourage everyone to look at our API conventions documents like really deep and thorough and can help people build APIs that fit Kubernetes style, even when they're not in the Kubernetes project. Now, API review is required for anything that is in the main Kubernetes Kubernetes distribution. So when we talk about the goal of the community being portable, right, no matter where you procure Kubernetes, you want it to work. Consistently, we do recognize that there's a growing ecosystem of projects around Kubernetes. And so you might have seen some things come up around things like the usage of the Cates.io API namespace versus say like an x dash Cates.io namespace. And so where we talk through things around what things are subject to API review and the process around that, that's a lot of things that you might see in this subproject and we would love participation. But there's a lot of great lessons and things to learn. So we can go to the next slide. Code organization as John talked about like Kubernetes was originally just one massive repo right Kubernetes Kubernetes and we are building on the output of many other open source communities to open like do what we do in Kubernetes right whether that is some of our earliest dependencies were C advisor or RunC or Docker or any of the other projects you might see get rendered into a typical Go project. Well over time this gets this just gets crazy and it slows down progress in the community because you have a lot of folks all trying to work within one monorepo and getting rendering alignment to work well is sometimes difficult and then you sometimes have challenges where people try to consume individual libraries or subsystems within communities in their discrete projects and they don't want to bring the entire Kubernetes source tree with them. And so I would say in the last, I don't know if I'm wrong John maybe in the last year or two we've gotten probably far more disciplined on our approach to this and so the code organization subproject kind of was born out of that desire to realize oh we got to do things better. And so basically if you're interested in like taking a very large go project and figuring out the best way to structure it across a reasonable number of repositories that all of us in the community can follow like this is this is the place for you and as well as if you're interested in consuming particular subsystems within Kubernetes for use in your project that may not be well factored yet to meet your need. I think everyone in the community wants to help others, but they want to help it in a way that they know that they're providing the help on. And so making those those issues known can help us figure out then, as John talked about earlier, what things we should maybe promote into their own discrete repo that you can depend on without the whole thing so that's that's code organization and going to the next one. Conformance tests and promotion. So this is a process that is important and one that is ever evolving so Kubernetes rapidly expanded in its earliest formations and the actual set of project. Typically many things had a testing right we want to make sure the feature work, but not everything was labeled as conformant and for a variety of good reasons right there were maybe integration specific to particular cloud platforms that were not necessarily portable. And, but you still want to make sure that that function worked right and so while we have a very large and rich body of ED testing within the project and of course these things can always improve that which was required to be portable across everywhere you can consume this is is is a smaller set, and you know has to be expanded judiciously right. And so the conformance tests and promotion sub project is basically evaluating that problem right how do we identify the right set of tests, the right set of function that should and must be portable across all areas of which you can consume Kubernetes, and then where we had maybe project debt where we lack sufficient testing. We are now trying to go back and say well what can we do to supplement the those gaps within our testing. And then on a forward going basis how do we ensure that our project postures and positions like don't allow those gaps to reinsert them back reinsert themselves back. So one of the key things that came out of Sega architecture was like this is clarifying statement that like, you know you need to have these tests before you can promote your feature to beta right they might not be labeled yet for conformance but they're at least in the project and ready to go in case we know things actually were being properly tested so. If you're interested in helping define and enhance and enrich what Kubernetes means no matter where you consume it. The conformance test and promotion project is a great place to engage with that. And the last project here is around enhancements. The history lesson of Kubernetes is sometimes useful which is we we had a small group of engineers kind of collaborating and we kind of had a rough idea of let's write some design documents on what we want to do. But that wasn't really very formal. And then we kind of evolve that a little bit and we stuck things in a cube community repo and kind of throw ideas out there had an ad hoc way of of getting consensus among the maintainer community. And then as you can imagine over years Kubernetes just grown right and so we needed to scale that process. And so now we have this enhancement sub project where we have a standard enhancement template that says this is the change I want to make. This is how that change can be tracked by the release team. This is how we know that a test was being implemented and executed for this enhancement. This is how we can appropriately document that things got into the website documentation so our users know how to consume the feature. And then a clear set of like what is the use case my feature is trying to do what component areas does it impact. And then we from that we can kind of build a map of like helping you navigate the community to know these are who you need to approve these are the six you need to go and engage. And ultimately hopefully get your feature idea into the project. I would say that this is this is a an ever evolving process I think we've learned a lot and John would agree as we go through caps on on how things are. And so if you've wanted to write a cap or you've reviewed a cap where you've read a cap where you have a new idea. But if you want to suggest a tweak or a change to the process, please engage the enhancements of project because we're always trying to figure out ways to better automate this and drive attention to it. And so with that, go ahead, John. Yeah, so along those lines one thing that was recently added to the gap process was the idea of production production readiness where he is so I mentioned this a little bit earlier but he really tries to get, you know, developers in our community are, you know, top match professional folks but they're also developers meaning they think about their users and how their users are going to make use of these features to to do whatever it's going to do. And those users are typically application developers that they're thinking about because those are the features are mostly built in for so production readiness review is intended to shift to shift the thinking a little bit from to the to the operator point of view. So as a person operating this cluster. They don't necessarily care about the specific features that they're that that might be offered by a saying, but they care about making sure those features are working properly. So, how can the operator best ensure that whatever you're adding is serving your users. So essentially what that means is making sure you've got good metrics, making sure that you have a way to turn the feature off, making sure that you can roll back the feature, making sure that that those metrics can tell you not only that the features in use, but that is actually working as expected. That's some of the, the set of questions now that are part of the kept prep process. And essentially those questions are broken down into when you're going to alpha. Here's the things you have to have already figured out when you're going to beta here's the things you have to have already figured out here's when you're going to stable and with the bar obviously matching up each, each step of the way. And like API review, there's a set of a set of community members who are PRR approvers, and they actually will need to look over the answers to those questions and work with the author of the cap to make sure that the questions meet meet the needs of operators and this process. So this is pretty new. We've piloted it in 119 and 120. And it will be mandatory in 121. So folks that are writing caps. It was more or less mandatory to write it in 120 but it wasn't a blocking thing. If you didn't get approved in 121 now, we will potentially block advancing your cap or concluding it in the release, unless you fill this out to our satisfaction. Of course, we will work with you in any way we can to make sure that that the feature needs to meet the partner. And I don't think for most folks, it's a hard bar to meet. It's just now we have it documented now operators that and providers that consume Kubernetes and distribute Kubernetes actually have a label built in right there for how to handle certain situations. Excellent, John. So like, maybe one way we can think about Kubernetes now is like, obviously it's a it's a container orchestration system at heart, but it has grown to be kind of more than that, right? It's basically a platform for building higher order platforms. One of the things that we often experience in Kubernetes, whether it's at the individual discrete SIG level, or those who want to engage with SIG architecture is, you know, folks have great ideas, right? They want to use the enhancement process to propose their new feature. They're ready to sign up for their production readiness review. They got their API all spec'd out. They want to get their API review.  And so, John, I heard that you had an idea for an awesome feature you wanted to add to Kubernetes and maybe we could kind of talk through a right way of navigating your interaction with the community. Yeah, absolutely. So I have a little sign project I've got going where I'm trying to build my own launch platform for rockets that go to the moon. And the thing is that I haven't been able to build the rocket, you know, quite good enough to reach the moon, except if I time it just right so that, you know, the rocket will reach the moon right as it's closest approach to Earth. So I was thinking that I would build a model that models the orbit of the moon and when it, and how long it will take the rocket to get there and then calculate exactly when the rocket needs to launch. But the problem is that, you know, with cron job, all I can do is schedule like on these periodic intervals, right? I can't plug that in like how do I, I want to build my own controller that can model, you know, can include my own scheduler, whatever it is.  And, you know, it's rockets you're dealing with, right? So I assume the users you're working with or your community you're representing are probably both important and full of cash and engineering know how to want to make this possible, right? And also you want to get that rocket to space. So you probably want to be able to deliver that value to your user at a prompt cadence, right? So maybe what we could do is ask, is that the right thing to get into Kubernetes? So if we go to the next slide, I think as a Kubernetes community, like our goal with engaging with you, John, is like, we want to make you successful. We don't want you to be bottlenecked on our API review process on the cat process on the production readiness process. If, like, that feature isn't broadly applicable to everyone who potentially could be consuming Kubernetes. Now I'm a little anxious that the use case you described might be very, you know, bespoke, but still important. But one thing to keep in mind is like when you're asking to make a change of that magnitude, like a new workload controller or a new fundamental capability. When we talk about the alpha beta stable progression, that takes time, right? That sometimes is measured in order of a year, maybe a little bit more because you're going through discrete loose periods. And so it's actually often better if you can fulfill your use case using one of the building blocks that Kubernetes already exposes without you need to get it into the core Kubernetes, right? As we said, distribution is better than centralization. I don't want you to be successful if and only if we bless your use case in the Kubernetes project. So to that concept, I would say one of the things in the Kubernetes community we've done is listen closely for where new extensions are needed. So let's maybe if we go to the next slide, we can talk through your example, right? So like you have a new API design, you have a new model, it sounds like a variant on jobs. Have you looked at CRDs? Are you familiar with that concept and what they would provide? No, tell me more about that. I don't know. All I heard is Kubernetes is really great and really solid, and I want to make sure that it can do what I need it to do. So like we have a lot of built-in APIs in Kubernetes that you're probably familiar with things like pods and the job thing you were looking at. But like there's a scope to what we offer within the community and then an ability for you to kind of write that new thing yourself, right? So one of the capabilities that was added was these things called custom resource definitions, right? So you can define a schema for your new job type and you can tell that to Kubernetes, this is my schema, and then you can produce instances of that object and write controllers against that. So if you want to use Kubernetes as a platform to build controllers over an arbitrary data model and you want it to follow the Kubernetes design principles, I think I would encourage you to look at custom resource definitions and experiment outside of Kubernetes first. So you're saying I could build something that works almost just like a built-in type with like almost just like current job, but I wouldn't have to modify Kubernetes itself? Yes, and you could be very successful for you and your users without being necessarily gate-kept by the project overall pacing community. And there's some other things like you talk about you want to be able to operate those things, right? So there's nothing, you probably want to use the CLI to like figure out what's going on with this object, right? Like you call it gate-kept pods and you know your thing's running. So one of the things that we've done is you can now, you know, using that custom resource definition kind of advertise how it gets displayed in the CLI user experience. So like if there's particular attributes you want to show about when that rocket needs to launch or when that job needs to run, I think you can make your users very happy and your operators very happy by exploring that. Now, I don't think there's anything particular about your use case that requires custom scheduling. I'm not afraid to ask in too much detail, but I would say like if we stop poking on John's custom example, there's a lot of other areas within Kubernetes that people can extend and enrich without needing to get their code base into the core of Kubernetes itself. And I think as a project community, we spend a lot of time trying to ensure that those can be successful building on top of us or around us. And that we recognize there might be exit points where not everything has been defined. But if John had an alternative example where he could identify a particular use case or nuance that's probably applicable that would empower him to do something else. I would say coming to SIG architecture to talking through your initial challenge or thought is is is a good thing. But our first reaction will be to try to ask if we have the right tools and mechanisms in place to enable you to be successful by building on top of rather than within Kubernetes. So thanks John for for placating there. Yep, go ahead John. So then the question that is where do we go from here. So really, the entire community has been focused on these extensions that Derek was just talking about, we really want to make sure that we have the right extension points. And so there's a big focus on that continues to be and that those extension points work as much as possible, like built in types. We also were continuing to build out coverage and conformance. And we're trying to improve the quality of the dot zero release. And we're sort of trying to improve the overall flow of features through this system so we have something that was recently added where things need to go to GA at some point we've had too many things that linger in beta for years, and that that's a problem for us. So, these are the main things we're looking at, as well as you know ensuring the project continues to scale, and we also make sure that that that kept process. So, how can you participate in this. Well, as Derek mentioned, come to our meetings we have a community meeting every other week. That's for the general signature architecture and then most of projects also have a meeting every other week. The schedules are there on the community schedule, and we are really eager to have you come and join us and help us. Thank you very much. All right, well thank you. And hopefully we're here to answer questions live now. So, thanks again.


Wait, go back, Fargo meets Nashville? Wait, what? This goes, the television shows. Okay. Like, if you wanted to do a Fargo meets Nashville, you would set it in Branson. Like, that would be- Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. All-town crime, but also like, people are weirdly famous and they're like outsized famous in Branson and only in Branson, and so they never leave. Branson's Little Opry Theater. World famous locally. Is that it? This is, I searched from Missouri, Branson and Opry and that's where they came up. I just remember the- That's where all the weirdest magicians are. The last time we ever went, I remember there were billboards for Yo-Yo Ma that called him a Japanese fiddle player. Oh no, you know what it is. It's because there's a famous Japanese fiddle player in Nashville, or that place is Grand Ole Opry. And I guess he used to do the circuit between there and Branson. And so they assumed it's an Asian guy with a string instrument, it must be the same guy. It's literally- I don't think that's what happened. I think they just thought, this is a way for us to explain to people who Yo-Yo Ma is. Yeah, but I'm telling you, there is a famous, there's a famous Japanese violinist to fiddle player. He plays like country music and he lives up that way. Like, he's super famous locally. Like, I don't know, outside of that area. I remember because 2020 did a story on him. Right here. A story. This name. Yeah, Shoji- Bipartisan, sorry. I'll post it in slide. What's the name? There it is. What's the name? Shoji Tabuchi, is a Japanese-American country music fiddle-er and singer who currently performs at his theater, the Shoji-Tabuchi Theater in Branson, Missouri. Yeah, I'm sure they were just going off his brand with the Yo-Yo Ma ad. I don't think they were confused. Pretty sure they were. I have people, you know what? I used to give people more credit than they deserved. Nah, I don't think that's a danger. These are shrewd advertisers here. Alrighty. Shall we do a show, Justin? What was that? Are you ready to do a show? Oh, hell yeah, man. Born to do it. We'll need controlled controls. Ah, yes, the controls. The couturels, the couturels. There you go. You have it all. The couturels. All right, here we go. Daily Tech News Show is powered by you. Find out more at DailyTechNewsShow.com slash support. This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, March 23rd, 2017. I'm Tom Merritt, Justin Robert Young. How are you? Oh, man, I'm having a great time. This is a fun day. We got some good stories. I'm ready to serve the fine DTNS listenership with the best show we can. We are going to bring you bipartisan agreement over internet regulation, my friends. The biggest story on the hill. That's right. We're going to cover it in depth. You thought it was impossible. I know, I know. I'll tell you what. I'm going to prove that notion wrong. All right, let's get right to it with some tech things that you should know. Users of Instagram can now turn on two-factor authentication, which uses SMS to text message you a code every time you log in from a new device. So go set that up. Always a smart move. Apple acquired iOS automation app Workflow and has made the app free. Workflow won a design award from Apple in 2015 in part because of its use of accessibility features. So didn't shut it down. Actually kept it around and made it free and free. I can't wait to learn more at WWDC. And WikiLeaks released more documents in its Vault 7 collection, which appear to reveal CIA methods for cracking MacBooks and iPhones. A bunch of the documents, probably most of the documents are more than seven years old, but there's a couple of current ones in there. And most of the attacks are about the Mac, and most of them require physical access to the machine. You know, it's always interesting to see unredacted documents like this, which is, I think, part of the fascination, even if it's not. Yeah, the peak behind the scenes, if you will. All right, now here's some more top stories. AT&T, Verizon, and Johnson and Johnson have joined in the boycott of non-search ad spending on Google's ad networks. That includes YouTube, due to concerns over ads appearing next to offensive content. There was a Times report, Times of London. Those of you in New York, we're not talking about your times. We're talking about the first times. Times report last week of ads next to extremist content that caused several European ad agencies and media companies, including Havas, the world's sixth largest ad agency to poll their ads. Google announced new tools and policies Monday. We talked about that. But advertisers are not changing their minds. More of them joining the problem. They say they want more details joining the problem. I mean, joining the boycott, sorry. Now, obviously, advertising is Google's golden goose, mostly search advertising. And search ads not affected by this. This is display ads, yeah. Yes, display ads that will largely go out over YouTube, which is a not insignificant advertising platform for Google. This is significant in that the words boycott, Google and ad spending are all in the same headline. Google would prefer to have a billion different headlines that we might read as either more damaging or more embarrassing. Anything that nips away at what actually keeps the lights on and has propelled Google into this tremendous financial position is something that they need to tend to. What I think we're seeing here, though, is the, sorry, are these ad agencies not believing that Google is either responding fast enough or comprehensively enough or is attentive to their needs because they are not saying, okay, if you patch the problem, everybody get back in the pool. They're like, no, no, no. We want to make sure that headline Johnson and Johnson baby powder ad on ISIS beheading video is not a story that we ever say. Exactly. This is a, when we were talking earlier today, I called this a backroom brawl that just spilled out into the street, right? Google has been arguing, look, we're doing everything we can. Yes, this is going to happen. Sometimes we don't like it, but we're limited in our resources to police this sort of thing on the internet. That's just the way the internet works, guys. And the ad agencies are saying no more, mostly because the Times opened the door and said, hey, look, they're fighting, right? The Times is the one that put this in front of the public and advertisers immediately being very adverse to negative public reaction said, uh-uh, no. We are not playing that game anymore. Google, you have to change your ways. Google, of course, Monday said, fine, fine, fine, fine.  You've forced our hand. We'll try to do more. We still don't think there's a lot you can do, but we'll try to do more. And the ad agencies aren't budging. That's really what's interesting. I expected, after Monday, this to kind of just settle down. And instead, it's growing. Well, because at the end of the day, these companies, when you're this large, you're spending your ad money somewhere. And Google's position is, all right, fine. We'll fix it, but at the end of the day, you've got a gigantic hole in your budget that has Google written on it. And either you're going to give us that money or you're going to wait a little bit and then give us that money. And we are, we're seeing a little bit of a stare down. And don't forget, Google's not wrong in saying this is a difficult, like a very difficult problem. This isn't a guy in the Google ad office who sits there and takes the ad orders and puts them up on terrorist sites, right? There's nobody watching this. This is all programmatic. And so it's very easy. You guys know this. You know how spam works. You know how easy it is for exploits to happen. It's very easy for someone to fool the system into thinking it's on a trusted site and then it shows up on an untrusted site. On the other hand, we, none of us, I think in this audience, want money going to people who are criminals. And so, yeah, there's responsibility on Google to stop this, but it's also not the kind of thing you can just say, okay, Bob in advertising, just make sure no ads go on the criminal sites anymore. And he's like, mom, man! I have to read those sites. They're disgusting. Yeah. So I'm not trying to exonerate Google when I say that, but it isn't as easy as just flipping a switch. No, no, it absolutely isn't. And listen, advertisers are always kind of perpetually baffled by the internet. Here's another facet. The difference here is that they're putting their money where their mouth is and they're banding together. And again, this is a huge priority for Google because the last thing you want to see is this to spread into something larger that really starts to eat into their business. Meanwhile, Medium launched a subscription service for $5 a month today. All revenue in the first few months will go directly to writers and publishers. Eventually, subscribers will gain access to exclusive stories, early access to interface changes, offline reading and curated reading lists, although none of these features are available at launch. In January, the company laid off 50 employees and announced a move away from the ad-supported business. Welcome to the club of the non-ad-supported media. Yeah, this is, I feel a little odd commenting on this story sitting here doing a show that's entirely supported by its listeners because part of me wants to say, yeah, I hope this works, this is the way it should work. Disintermediate, go straight to your viewers. Medium certainly has a big enough audience that this might work and the people who love Medium really love Medium, so they might be willing to pop down 60 bucks a month. It's all about the approach, it's all about how you ask and it's all about the value people get for that $5. Right now, I think in some ways it's a more compelling proposition to say, give us $5, it goes to the writers than it is to add these features and things later, but it's also, my impression of it, Justin, is it's all sort of the right things they should do if they want to be an ad-free publication platform, but maybe not in the right order. This seems a bit jumbled to me, and for this reason, because you said a lot of people love Medium, but do they love Medium, or do they love the writers that have found a home on Medium? Sure, they love Medium because of the writers, for sure. This is not a top-down thing where Medium is saying, hey, we need to have people covering this and covering that, and there's some way that you can vote it up or vote it down. It's basically just become a way to write an article or a series of articles that don't force you to make a blog, right? That is the killer hook for Medium, is I have an idea that I would like to get out and have a look professional without starting up this whole other thing or trying to jam it into something that it's not supposed to like Tumblr. What is curious to me is that they are launching this by themselves as, hey, pay Medium. Sure, we'll give it for the first few months, of course. Who knows after those few months where the money goes, let's assume that after that, a percentage will still go to the writers. Let's assume, right? That's fair to say. Sure.  How much are you gonna put behind the paywall, especially, especially, sorry, when you have an opportunity, if someone's already willing to pay for your work, then you can go on Patreon and you can publish your own articles there and sure, they won't look like Medium articles, but if you wanna put it behind a paywall, there's already ways that you can put writing behind a paywall, very- But this isn't a $5 paywall. That's a key, that's a key part of this. Well, no, no, part of what they wanna offer, they wanna offer- This is $5 a month and everything's, nothing's behind a paywall, but you're supporting the writers. This is the same thing we do with Daily Tech News Show, right? Everybody gets the podcast. They say eventually subscribers will gain access to exclusive stuff. Right, so they're gonna put some things exclusive to the subscribers, but if I'm reading this right, most of Medium will still be just out there for everybody to read. I guess that's what I'm saying though, because what do you think would be the biggest way? If I, all right, so- So here's the way I'm thinking it happens. They go to their most popular Medium people, say you guys are great, you're bringing in the most traffic, we're going to give you a big paycheck in order to do a little bit of exclusive content behind the paywall. If, yeah, but now you already, you're trying to bring in content that I don't know whether or not it's going to be a better value proposition for them to say, so let's say the ringer, Bill Simmons' site, before their value proposition was, hey, we'll handle all your tech, we'll make sure that your site never goes down. We'll do all the work there, you can hire graphic designers to design on top of our system. And in exchange, we will be able to sell big advertising packages that you can use to write stories against, right? Okay. Now they're not doing that anymore. Right. Now they're saying, hey, people love you guys so much, what if we took a cut of you asking and plugging for your fans to subscribe to Medium? Because that's where this comes from. This comes from writers encouraging their fans. Sure. Money to the platform. And on some platforms, like Twitch, it works on others, it might not. I don't know if Medium is in... Honestly, there's a lot of questions about how they make this appeal and that's why I come back to agreeing with you about it being jumbled. I don't know, is it them asking the authors to go and plump down to get people to pay? I don't know. Maybe it's not. And if so, how does that work? And this is not Patreon because it's the entire platform you're paying $5 a month for, not a particular writer. You're paying for access. You're not even paying for access, you're paying for support. So it's the Patreon appeal, but for Medium, as someone in our chat room put, patreon.com slash Medium, versus them saying, okay, so each individual writer can support themselves through direct donations, which is what they shouldn't do that because then only the star writers will benefit. This way, they can divvy it up amongst everybody. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's a bold move though. It's an interesting move. I hope it works because I like Medium, but I'm not convinced. You know what's funny is, I'm more positive about this working and I don't really love Medium. I don't hate it or anything. I just, I don't really ever read it and I don't see the need to put my stuff on it and maybe I'm just being old and crotchety, whereas you actually do love it more than I do. Yeah.  Well, I mean, we've had great success with the contender stuff, putting it up on Medium. There you go. That explains our positions. I don't have a dog in the hunt. You're like, wait a minute. Hold on, you're what? Changing my what? Well, no, I mean, because nothing would change for me necessarily. I just don't know how many people are going to Medium.com and saying, oh, look at all these great stories I get to read every day that's curated by Medium. I just don't know where people find the value. My suspicion is that people find the value from writers and if they find the value from writers, I don't see how, A, the system directly benefits them in the best way possible or in a way that they can't already with off the rack solutions. Yeah, yeah. Better ways to get money. Would have to be discovery and curation, but yeah. Yeah. After a successful trial, Wells Fargo will roll out cardless withdrawals to 13,000 US ATMs starting on March 27th. Customers will be able to use their Wells Fargo smartphone app to receive a one-time eight-digit code that they will then enter into an ATM along with their standard PIN. Although in some cases, particularly secure ATMs with after-hours access, you'll still need your card. Think particularly of those ATMs that are behind a door and you use your ATM card to get in. Like, you obviously need your card for those still.  Like, that means that we are just at a very fundamental sea change when it comes to security, to how we safeguard the things that we care the most about. We were talking earlier today about the idea that abroad, the idea of handing over your credit card to a stranger and letting them take it into another room. Yeah. That's the craziest Cucabara idea that you could possibly concoct, right? Like, this is something that like, hey, why do we need these cards? Why do we need this thing that, you know, obviously there's still a PIN number beyond it, but can't there be different other ways that we can prove who we are and get money out? Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. Most of the world looks at us and goes, you don't even have chip and PIN. Even now, you just have chip. And I went to the post office yesterday, they have the chip cards blocked at the US post office. Yeah. You have to swipe still. And we still don't have PIN, it's just chip, which kind of defeats the purpose of chip and PIN security. But this kind of thing, you know, maybe we pull a Kenya and we just leap past the old infrastructure that we are not really rolling out and go right to phones. We have a huge number of phones in people's pockets. I would love to see more banks actually integrate with Android Pay and Apple Pay for their ATMs. To say just use NFC and a fingerprint, boom. But throw your cash that way. Don't even need a code sent to your app or nothing. I think we're absolutely going to get there because the technology is, like you said, in everybody's pockets and it's just gonna be a matter of somebody, you know, being the first value ad proposition. Although now, I mean, now you look at ATMs, I'm with Ally Bank. Ally Bank says, we don't have ATMs. We'll just refund all your ATM transactions. Congratulations, everybody else's ATMs is ours. Boom. On the first story containing a disputed label meant to alert users to fake news has shown up on Facebook. Links to an article entitled the Irish slave trade comes with a disputed by Snopes.com in the Associated Press warning. The Guardian reported that it was able to trigger the warning when attempting to publish the story in San Francisco, but not in Sydney or London, meaning the feature may not be rolled out worldwide.  Behold, the gates have opened. The gates are open. Yeah. Okay, as a test case, this isn't a bad one. It's a legit organization, but an entertainment one. The Newport News, they do some seemingly local content in Rhode Island, but a lot of it is extremely tongue and cheek. And this story about the Irish being traded as slaves is playing on a sort of meme about that and the fact that it's not actually true. And yet it is causing some few corners to raise up and say, aha, see, they're already deciding for us what we should see and not attacking the story itself. And I think this is the important thing. Of the people who are criticizing this, they are criticizing Snopes and Associated Press saying that those are biased organizations and shouldn't be trusted to determine whether something is legitimate or not. They're going right after the meat of the issue. Who elected them, Sheriff, of this here town, which is the ultimate problem with this because that will always be a question. You're going like there's no as much as we would love to believe that there is this objective fact that we can tap into the objective fact database. And let's be honest, this story isn't true. It's not true, but also it's satirical, right? Like, you know, it's- Probably, yeah. Well, I mean, and then so now we're policing that line. Well, it's not the onion. This is a site that has true things and also false things. Like it's more along the lines of the inquirer than it is the onion. Sure, but you know, we don't know how these are taken. We don't know the spirit that they're written. We know that these things are disputed and now we are leaving an algorithm that is feeding its information from these organizations. Well, it's an algorithm alerts humans. Humans look at it, say yes or no, whether it should be reviewed. Then it's handed to members of the Pointer Institute, among which are many legitimate organizations in journalism who then review it and if two of them agree it's disputed, not just one, then it gets the alert. When it gets the alert, the alert says, hey, this is disputed, you should know that before you publish it.  So it's multiple people have to decide it's disputed from vetted organizations and it's not stopping you from publishing anything. Like it is the most conservative way of going after this that I could probably think of. I don't know how else you could do it, except to not do it.  I mean, I'm just saying, this is not that big of a deal. Although to me it is very interesting that it is this story that gets flagged and not one of these like independent American Eagle Dot Biz stories that are just out and out, you know, just taking SEO words and putting them together to try to make a story that you can sell advertising against, right? Well, those might not be wrong, that's the thing, right? Well, I mean, a lot of more, I mean, the ones that are like Clinton arrested or something, like that to me, if you're looking at fake news, that's what that's what part of it is, it's not just an instance of something getting shared. It has to be shared enough that it trips the algorithm, right? So it's, they're only going to go after things that are widely spread in some sort of definition. And I mean, to get to the heart of the matter, I think what you're afraid of waiting for, expecting is that story that gets flagged and then turns out to be true or at least reasonably, arguably true. It won't even need to get to that point. And Tom, I am not waiting, I am not hoping and I am not fearful. I am prophesizing that this will happen. I am laying this out for everybody to see. I have said from the very beginning with this that this is a disaster waiting to happen. All right, let's settle down and talk about something that everyone can agree on taxes. In a statement accompanying Canada's new national budget, the government plans to amend the excise tax act to redefine ride sharing companies as taxi services. This would require goods and services tax to be collected on every ride.  So it's estimated this charge would cost companies $3 million. In other words, it'll generate $3 million in tax revenue. So what, we're expecting Uber to pull out of Canada in five, four, three, two. No, they won't. I mean, this is pittance. If it's only gonna generate $3 million, it's not even all from Uber, they'll just pay up. They don't need the hassle these days. I guess you wanna know what? Yeah, maybe just the $3 million. Maybe Kalanik should just show up to Ottawa and just hand them a check. Just give a check for $4 million right here. They don't worry, it's on us. Covered, I covered everybody. Grab, lift, whoever. I don't care. Now, hey, who wants to play, try to play ping pong with Justin Trudeau. I think they can get some good press. I mean, this is something that I think we will see more and more, not only in Canada, but also I would suspect in America as ride sharing obviously kind of comes out of its infancy and into its adolescence. It's not going away, whether or not the certain companies that we are talking about flourish or not. I think we're going to, well, anything that's successful, we'll see more taxation. I mean, that's just the name of the game. Folks, if you wanna get all the tech headlines each day in less than 10 minutes, subscribe to DailyTechHeadlines.com. All right, we've got good news, government regulation story. But first, I don't know, it depends on whether your perspective is whether this first part is good or bad news, but it's certainly partisan. Justin, tell us the partisan thing that happened first. Well, the US Senate voted 50 to 48 to eliminate privacy rules approved by the FCC in October. Those rules required ISPs to get customer consent before selling or sharing browser history, geolocation, financial, health information, children's information, social security numbers, and app usage history as well as the content of communication. The bill goes to the US House for approval after which it will need the president's signature. Proponents of the change say it keeps privacy rules consistent between web companies like Google and internet providers like Comcast. So that's the rub, right? On one side, you're saying, I don't want my ISP to know my browser history and be able to sell it to marketers and find out things about me by data mining it. But the argument is, well, Google does that. Yeah. Here's the thing, here's the thing. One of the differences between a web company like Google and an ISP like Comcast in the US anyway is choice. I can easily decide to use another search engine or another email provider or not use Chrome. I can use Safari or Opera or Vivaldi if I don't like Google's policies. However, very few US residents have a choice of a high-speed internet provider. If I don't like Comcast and I wanna keep 50 megabits per second, I can choose Comcast. Yeah. So that brings us to our next story which I'd rather focus on because it's a bipartisan move to solve this underlying issue. Now, it alone isn't gonna solve it but it will move towards creating the conditions that might solve this underlying competition issue. John Brodkin, who does the Lord's Work and Covering Networking for Ars Technica, by the way, has an article up about a dig once proposal. The idea of dig once is that you make everyone put fiber conduits when they install new roads or sidewalks or upgrade roads or sidewalks. You don't even have to run the fiber. You're just putting the conduit in so that it's easy to run it when somebody does wanna run it. And you make it big enough that multiple people can run fiber. It has bipartisan support. Representative Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee, who, by the way, supports wiping out the current net neutrality rules, restricting municipal broadband. She put California representative Anna Eschews dig once proposal on the House Communications and Technology Subcommittee hearing agenda Wednesday. It has many other Republicans supporting it as well. In fact, dig once is supported by former FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler and current FCC Chairman Ajit Pai as well as the CTIA, the lobbyists for the telecoms and CenturyLink, one of the biggest telecoms in the U.S. The opposition is just those big incumbents who would rather not see anybody have an easier time installing competitive networks. This is one of the biggest bugaboos of this show and any of its incarnation, right? Is net neutrality writ large and this competition issue as a problematic vexing solution for it? Because on one hand, it's undeniable that when Google dumped a ton of money into forcing their way to lay fiber in the markets that they did, like immediately competition shifted. Immediately competition caught up. Immediately speeds got better and prices got lower. So with the evidence that we have, the idea that a company even an inexperienced one in the field like Google could change the face of it in each local market is a promising sign. So the idea that maybe it's easier to be able to lay fiber in a lot of these trenches, because again, the reason why, if you want the backstory, well here, I'll let you, if somebody wants to come in and lay new fiber in your hometown, not your hometown, but the general hometown. In Greenville, Illinois. In Greenville, Illinois, they face a litany of problems. Yeah, in fact, there's a story out this week that Google fiber is decided not to roll out in some of the Kansas city area neighborhoods that it had said it was gonna roll out. Where it had collected deposits because they're shifting to wireless and the reason they're shifting to wireless is when you want to lay fiber, even if you get the permits, even if you get the municipality to cooperate, even if you get the incumbents to give you pole access for running fiber in certain places, it still costs money and time to dig and put the fiber in and roll it through. And certain neighborhoods are way more logistically difficult than others, depending on the geography and where you're going. So, granted, we're not saying that this dig once proposal is a one size fits all solution to competition for the telcos in the United States, but it helps because if you know, okay, most of the roads in this neighborhood have conduit, suddenly your costs plummet and your ability and your timeline shortens up and you can roll this out much faster at much lower cost and the estimates are that it adds about 1% cost to the construction of the roads and sidewalks. So it doesn't come free, but at least it's not a ridiculously huge amount. And that is one of those incumbent advantages that all these telcos have is not only is it going to cost you a lot of money to do it anyway, but they can make it as expensive as possible. Think of it like trying to go, trying to get into a litigation battle with a large company. They can just make sure that cases keep getting moved and delayed because they've got lawyers on retainer, you're paying out of pocket. And that's the situation that many upstart internet companies have found themselves into the point where it's chilled, you know, it's chilled competition. I mean, like even Google with a bottomless pit of money is starting to back off saying, Roland Ray and Fiber's kind of complicated. You know, it's not easy. And ultimately it's like, all right, so they have their customers, but that are never going to really make the money back that they're spending to lay this stuff out. And ultimately like, great, good guy, Google, you've made AT&T in Verizon and Comcast offer better speeds at cheaper prices. Thank you for your altruism, for burning this gigantic pile of money and scaring them to the point where they had to take action. But otherwise, yeah, Google's like, well, hey, let's look into this wireless thing because we can do that for a hell of a lot cheaper than having to deal with this total morass. And it's one of the things that blew my mind. A couple of years ago, we had a guy on from South Korea talking about how networks were implemented there and he'd worked in the industry. And it wasn't that they opened up the networks and said, okay, you can build a network, but you have to give everyone access to it. It wasn't that they subsidized things or they put in net neutrality rules. What they did was the government made it easy for anyone to run fiber. They said, you all can run fiber and apartment buildings have multiple fiber ISP connections. And of course, Korea consistently tops the charts in fastest speeds available to people. Now, granted, I know Korea is a small area, but we don't have any equivalent small area within the United States, right? You shouldn't compare the United States directly to Korea, but probably fair to compare Massachusetts to Korea. Hey, how about a region of the country that has exploded with technological advancements, one in which I live in, in the Bay Area? Sure, yeah.  We have absolutely, I mean, I think, but AT&T sent out a hell of a press release about a year ago talking about how gigabit internet was coming to Oakland. So after holding my breath for the last 365 days, I don't seem to have any gigabit internet. There's like, it is so annoying and it is so difficult to make this happen that ultimately, if it takes a government regulation to get government regulations that can favor incumbents to soften so we can have better competition, then I'm glad that this is a bipartisan solution. Well, and this is the kind of thing when we talk about digitrality and I'll say, well, what I'd rather have is us focus on competition. This is the kind of thing that looks at that, right? Again, not the silver bullet. This isn't the thing that solves the competition problem, but we need things like this. We need more things like this that are focusing on that issue. And then some of these other problems become less of a problem because suddenly if you can like, oh yeah, no, I've got four ISPs to choose from and one of them's like marketing themselves really well is, but you know, we're the privacy people. We don't look at your, then I'm less concerned with those FCC regulations because I at least have a choice. Doesn't mean that maybe I still don't want some regulations about privacy to be different for ISPs than websites, but it becomes a different conversation. And let me be, I'm gonna put on my cape and my villainous fedora and let me speak for the bad guys. If you are a startup or you are looking to get into the ISP game, the value proposition of being able to harvest and sell that kind of metadata makes it a more robust financial opportunity if you can become an ISP easier with greater access to customers and make money on that backend by using their data for advertising. Like it incentivizes on, could incentivize on some level people to get in to become in what is a fairly stagnant market. Maybe, I kind of look at it and say, well, if the cost goes down significantly to enter the market, then you don't have as much pressure for people to figure out these other crazy ways to make money. But yeah, it's all academic at this point. I mean, let's just say that, oh man, that's enough money for me. It's not something that is very often said in business, right?  Like, yeah, I kind of have to. I really need to, in other words, to make this happen. Whereas if you've got competition, I mean, look at T-Mobile going in there when they actually stayed in competition with the other carriers, did things that the other carriers wouldn't that were customer friendly and distinguish themselves that way. And maybe we see, listen, the bargain basement version of fiber internet is cheaper, you gotta harvest your data if you wanna pay extra, so you can keep all your unmentionables unmentionable and you could do it the other way for higher price. Hey, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit. You can submit stories and vote on them in there. It really helps us figure out what you guys want us to talk about, dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. Few messages to get to before we're done here. I'm a proud Patreon supporter. Thank you, Em. I wanted to respond to Joe's request from DTNS 29.92 regarding projects in Africa working on bringing internet to frontier markets. All the way on the other side of the continent, Brick, spelled BRCK, BRCK.com, is a company headquartered in Nairobi, Kenya, doing some really innovative stuff. The team's original product caused quite a stir on the African tech scene. It can switch among different types of connections such as Ethernet, Wi-Fi, 3G or 4G with an eight hour battery. Since they've expanded to enterprise and IoT solutions, if you could kindly pass this info along to Joe, that would be fantastic. So there you go, Joe. Check out brickbrck.com. That's awesome. By the way, Ronny writes, lastpass can do biometrics though, Ubico, lastpass.com. No, through, through Ubico. Through Ubico. Using the Ubiki. Oh, there we go. Lastpass.com slash Ubico. I use this on my password manager, Dashlane and feel reasonably secure. Yeah, they have a little fingerprint thing on there. That's kinda cool. And finally, Ian from Snowy Tuesday, but sunny Wednesday and who knows what it'll be Thursday. Scotland says, I listened to Wednesday's show on my way to work this morning and it brought to mind the article about Tesla testing their power packs. A colleague sent me this link as we were looking to deliver a battery solution on one of our assets and his article should go a ways towards calming any fears about fires in power packs. You've got to read this article at electric.co. It's about fire safety tests on the Tesla fire power packs where they basically set them on fire. And they found that if a fire came from within one of the cells of a Tesla power pack, it was constructed in such a way that it wouldn't catch the other cells on fire. So it's pretty safe that way. And the other thing was if the fire came from outside the power pack and the power pack ignited, it wouldn't set other power packs on fire. Oh, wow. So pretty crazy safety technology and this is a fire safety test that is done with fire departments, not just Tesla internally saying, trust us, we did this. That's great. And also, by the way, what a day at work just lighting stuff on fire. Right, that is a good job. Dude, tell you what. Big shout out to Scotland. Love, Scott. Hey, thank you. Big shout out to you, Justin, Robert Young for joining us as always. What you got going on these days? Oh, well, I'll tell you what, all fans of Diamond Club, DiamondClub.tv of course, where this is a broadcast every day. You can show your support by going to stickers or DIAF.com. That is where we have the new stickers or DIAF meme pack. All your favorite memes redrawn by Matthew Sargent to include our own Diamond Club logo. Go ahead and check it out. $5 gets you the new stickers. $19.99 gets you the mega pack. All the new stickers plus an exclusive one. Plus classic stickers. Plus a jury will buy you a drink token if you're planning on going to any of the conventions this summer where you're gonna run into me and an exclusive original Ruinum wine label. Go ahead and check it all out. Stickers or DIAF.com. Hey, thanks to everybody who gives a little value back to this show for the value they get from it, including Bryce Finley, Eric Rontz, Gerald Downing, and many, many more. All of you guys are the best. Thanks for supporting us at Patreon.com slash DTNS. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. Give us an email. We're live Monday through Friday, 4.30 p.m. Eastern at alphankeekradio.com and diamondclub.tv and our website's dailytechnewshow.com. Back tomorrow to talk to Steve Kovac from Tech Insider and Len Peralta. Speak to you then. Go, go! This show is part of the front pants network. Get more at frogpants.com. Bob, I hope you have enjoyed this program. Butchakoon. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Cool. We got plenty of show titles today. What's the good ones? You're the best ones. We have the best show titles here.  Well, yeah. We've used that one, though, I think, haven't we? Didn't we use it? I think we used both at some point or another. No, we used both. This is a prophecy. I've warned all of you of this prophecy. You need to write them across nine very thick books bound in mahogany. A medium-sized paywall. Where's Google going? Fiber once. Oh, higher speeds for everyone. Can you dig it? I think that's a take from a... Can you dig it? That's got to be the title. Cyrus. Dig it. All right. That's a good one. Pay curtain. Welcome to the hotel Washington, DC. AT&TMs. Get it? AT&TMs. Wait. But it's Wells Fargo. That one may be too clever. Yeah. Might be. Fiber. Honestly, I like higher speeds for everyone. Can you dig it? Justice, did you like higher speeds for everyone? Can you dig it? Or just can you dig it? I just love can you dig it. I kind of like that. Can you dig it? And you got to wear a bathrobe when you say it. Yeah. He's the real deal. No one wasted no one. What I love about that movie is the slaying, because it's late 70s, early 80s. What movie is that? The Warriors. Warriors. Oh, Warriors come out and play. Which is based on a novel. Is it the same name? Warriors. I had never seen the Warriors. And I went to Netflix, or rather, Tim League of the Draft House. Used to do the Rolling Roadshow. And would screen movies at places that were important to the movies. Do you know Tim League? I know a guy. I know a guy who knows a guy. And so I saw the Warriors on Coney Island. Oh, nice. And it was a summer night that was so goddamn hot in Hoboken, where I lived in my roommates.   It was so good. Explain to me, if you would, how is it that one can take the subway to Coney Island, but not to JFK? Don't even start it. It's just such a racket. It is. Yeah. No, you got to get on a bus.  I guess they don't. Don't any, some of those Chinatown bus routes, the cheap ones, go to JFK or no. You get a jitney. The Chinatown buses are all to Boston and DC. So they're just, OK, I see. Yeah, it's Chinatown to Chinatown. Those are just excuses to run guns, by the way. Just such a nice first come in. Forget it, Justin. It's Chinatown. I remember like those things used to be a thing, like a really big thing. They were super, I mean, in many ways, it's kind of what Megabus is kind of based off of really cheap fares and just like packing them in. Yeah, you know, it was always like, I remember I had just moved to the city when they started getting big. Like I remember like I was in, still in college, and I would have friends that had graduated and had lived in New York City or lived in Boston and would talk about going on them. But that was like, that was back in the real Wild West, where it was just a feng wa bus.    Well, they did that. And also, I think for the price of, I think, like some kind of regulation, they stopped dropping people off on the streets and would start, they got access to some of the bus terminal lots, like the city made them pay whatever to have the space to drop people off. But the last time that I took one, which Jesus, this has to be about eight years ago, it was a competition in New York. There was three or four lines and they were all going to failure Boston. I forget where we were going. And you would buy your ticket and the other people would yell at you to get a refund for your ticket and buy a ticket with them. And then it just became this like poaching skirmish where they would start yelling at each other. It was hardcore, man. They were scrimping. That is the market economy at work. I know. It also was just like, all right, no one's making this a better solution. Like, you're just badgering me. Just like four, you buy a ticket from somebody that either speaks very little English or does not speak English at all, only to have somebody, three other people who only know refund, refund, refund. What time? What time? What time? This sooner. That's a racket too. They all understand English. They just know enough. Some of that's an act, I'm sorry. They just do that so people don't get too nosy or like don't want to get bogged down. Don't understand. No, move. Roger tries that with me sometimes. Yeah, but I talked to him too much. I talked too much. Except it's Spanish. No English. I'm like, Roger, you don't speak Spanish. No, I know. No, no. No English, no English. I actually saw you do the no, no thing when it's to a stranger. It worked too, no. Yeah, man, I'll tell you what. It was a super fun time. I've never taken a megabus. The megabuses seem nice by comparison. They are the megabuses. The megabus? Yeah, what's that? It's a service that runs up between the Bay Area LA. I think San Diego as well. And I think the guys who run it only have like two or three buses. But they're double-decker buses and they have Wi-Fi and all that. What makes them so attractive is if you get in on the initial run of tickets for a set time, you'll get them really cheap, like $2. But if you wait later, the price goes up. The problem is it's still a bus and you're still stuck on it for eight hours. Yeah, it's still slow because it's on the road. Man, I've never seen a thing. They can't drive faster than 55 miles an hour or 60 or something. Like somebody had a car that had Wi-Fi, but it was all sleeper stuff. And so it was basically a red eye for San Francisco to LA. Uh-huh. Like a car, like a bus or a car in a train? It was like another, it was like a bus, but it was kind of like a tour bus that was really only there to have like the double-decker sleepers, right? I don't know if it's still running though, although I gotta go to LA. Oh, by the way, we gotta figure out, I might, I'll be able to do DTNS next week. Never mind. You will? Okay. I'll be able to do it. Perks up. No, there's, I can't tell if that's a kid or a dog at that store.   No, I'll be in Orlando. Oh, okay. On the scene reporting from Harry Potter. I wanna go to Harry Potter. You live right near another here. I know, I wanna go there. I didn't realize, but they also have a locals' rate. Yep, they should do. I should take advantage of it. So many theme parks. That's what's great about this place. I mean, I guess Orlando's the same way, but then you're in Orlando. Yeah. Sorry, no offense to Orlandians. All right. All right, hey, sleepbus.co is a thing. We launched Sleep Bus with a prototype bus in late April, 2016. The response has been incredible. We are working to build and customize a new fleet and expect to open reservations for our Dream Machine soon. Dream Machine. Can't wait to share with you. You know what?  I'll tell you what, the only reason why I get afforded to go back and forth to LA, like for this thing that I'm doing at the beginning of the week next week is because I have frequent flyer miles.  I would love to do this, to get a full day in and then just go to sleep in a pod and wake up. I'm wondering how they make it safe. So like when you're- This sleep bus would still work in an autonomous car culture. Oh, sure. Hell yeah. Because it's gonna be more expensive to rent an autonomous car that just has you in it. So there'll still be discounts for buses and things. Don't you think? The idea is maximizing your day. It's just not filling a day with stuff. Yeah, but like the great thing with the- So this is the thing. If you were going to another city with a high, the high with a really well set up mass transit system, you'd probably be right. The thing is, once you get in the car and it's self-driving and you're renting the car like you would from enterprise or budget or whatever, it drives you down there. You can still go to other places. So you can still- See, that's not the way I'm imagining it working because the way you're saying it makes sense, but I've been imagining it as a car gets me to where I'm going. I'm there. I don't keep that car. I only then rent another car to go to the next place I need to go. Like I don't need to keep possession of a self-driving car. Yeah, but I think you would though because you'd be using it a lot. And it's probably- That's a lot more expensive though. Well, how would you know? The price is for a self-driving car. No, it's just more expensive to own a car whether it's self-driving or not. No, no, I'm saying you wouldn't own the car. You would rent it in the same way like you would rent a car. Well, so okay, but renting a self-driving car is still going to be more expensive than paying for it. Yeah, but what I'm saying is that- If there's a scale type situation. It's, what is that dog doing? Is that a dog? I thought that was a siren. It's either a dog or a coyote. I don't know. You have coyotes here? My neighbor never had a dog before so I don't know what that noise is. It's creeping me out a little bit. Sorry, yeah. But like you get the bus, but once you get off the bus, how are you going to get to your next destination? Self-driving car. Yeah, so if you had a self-driving car all the way down. You can call an Uber and it's like two bucks. Yeah, but then you have to wait. It's just either have everything in your car and just say, all right, I'll move to the next place. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. It's more convenient. It's going to be more expensive though. So it's a cost convenience. It's a cost versus convenience and therefore you need to wait. Is it worth the extra hour I lose or two hours to get ready? The idea though, the idea with autonomous cars though is you won't have to wait as long because they'll be good at being around. Yeah, I understand that, but I think what's going to happen really is that people are going to use them like they do rental cars. You rent them for like a week or a weekend and it just drives you around. Granted, yeah, it'll sit around which might not be the most efficient use, but initially that's, I think that's how the usage will go. I don't know. I'll bet you a slurpee. Yeah, well, here we go. Well, we didn't even get to that. I'll bet you a cherry icy. All right. You've heard it here on the post show first folks. I don't know how we tested the validity of our assumptions either. We'll just go get ICs or something. I wanted to mention those, the jet sharing too, because that's big down here. They have it at LAX and Santa Monica both where you can fly to, it's limited locations. I think it's like Vegas and maybe San Francisco and Sacramento on a private jet for like 70 bucks. And the whole point is these are private jets that need to get back somewhere. They wouldn't be carrying passengers otherwise. So you're just defraying the extra cost of- Defraying fuel costs basically. Yeah, fuel cost and keeping an eye on you, having somebody help you on board or whatever, right? That is totally what the US Air Force, I think they think they still do it. It used to be part of the, before they changed it, it used to be part of MAC, the military airlift command. And initially, when they would transport troops and material over, they would have all the space, especially in Europe to fly back as they might as well loaded up with people and stuff. So they would allow, if there were, and this is the thing, it was kind of an on call. You couldn't book a flight, right? If there were space available, you could get on it. You know, a serviceman and their family, you know, if they got tickets at a super discounted rate, would be able to fly, except you would be inside a plane without really any windows or movies or anything like that. But it was super cheap. And I know a few people who managed to cart their families for vacations. They've gone up, it's $109 now. What is it, is it lonely? I've never heard a dog in that place. All right, I am all published. We are good to go. Thanks everybody for watching. All right. Lovely Thursday. Bye guys. Bye.


So right now we're standing in this parking lot. This Kmart behind me has been empty for about six years. There's a new plan to essentially demolish this structure, raise this entire parking lot, and actually build four out parcels with about 30,000 square feet of retail space. This is gonna include a new McDonald's. The old McDonald's is still open here, but as you can see, sort of the rest of this shopping center is shut down along with the Kmart. And plans have been filed with the St. John's Water Management District. We're told permitting is going to start for this as well, and that ground could break later this summer if not during the fall. But I'm sure in the next probably six to 12 months we'll see some form of construction here at the site. We're told that it could be some more restaurants, obviously some more retail as well, but no names at this point.


So we're demonstrating NITRIC here today. NITRIC is the Neuroimaging Informatics Tools and Resources Clearing House. It's an NIH contracted resource that we also work very closely with the INCF to provide information about every resource known to humankind that is of utility for structural, functional, and neuroimaging types of applications. So NITRIC has three aspects to it, one of which is a resource registry, and that's what you get to when you go to NITRIC.org. From here you can find some late-breaking news about the community. You can jump off to some of the resources with particular keywords if you want to find all the software that does shape analysis. There's a jump-off place right there to go to that will show you the 12 different resources that claim to do shape analysis. Each resource has a standard description about what it does, where to download it, where the documentation is, and lots of standard information. The network's a little slow here, so it clicked and worked right away. But you get to a page that would have all the different resources that made that particular query. In addition to finding software, one can find hardware and data. Much of the data is released as tar, just bundled files together. We also recently have released the NITRIC IR, the NITRIC image repository, which is an XNAT-based database for some of the datasets that are released on NITRIC. So for example, instead of the abide, the autism imaging data exchange data being released as a bunch of tar files within NITRIC, you can find each of the individual subjects and query for subjects that meet a particular criteria, and then just download those subjects much more easily than extracting them out of the tar file releases that they have. The last element of NITRIC at the moment, which in some future video I'll be able to show you, is the NITRIC CE, the computational environment. The idea here is NITRIC Healthy Find Software, NITRIC IR Healthy Find Data. Once these software gets complex and the data gets large, you don't necessarily always want to process that at home. You'd like to use the Amazon Elastic Cloud computing in order to have a standard software release with standardized data and run all this image processing in that Amazon environment. That gives you access to high-performance computing without the troubles of knowing too much about how to set that up is a good way to deliver high-performance computing to all of the neuroscience community. So that's kind of the short introduction. Feel free to go to nitric.org or email nitricinfo at nitric.org to get all the information you want.