So it is still working on October 16th 2019, and this is the meeting of the community resources Committee of the council. It is 838 a.m. And I'm calling the meeting to order People might notice a change in chair last meeting the community resources committee elected me Mandy Joe Hanneke chair, so I will be chairing starting today We start with general public comment Is there any So there is not if some public shows up later in the meeting I may come back to to that item our first discussion item is the draft affordable housing priorities policy we have a duty to report back to the town council on a feedback on this policy, so what I did was Draft Started a draft memo. I do not believe it is in any way complete but I started it based on the conversation we had at the last meeting and I took the minutes from that meeting and attempted to sort of Coalesce that into feedback that was standardized in form and wording and stuff as much as possible and so what I thought we would talk about today is In addition to the form is this a good idea on how to present this back to the affordable housing trust But also What do we want to add? What do we want to subtract if this isn't great all of that? Before we start. I want to make sure everyone has it You're working on your computer still, right? We will help you find it once you get your computer up and running Let's get it plugged in and we'll pull it up now that we've got everyone on the same page and You potentially seen this in the audience, right? Okay We're talking about the memo that is in draft form right now. I'm very basic So, let's talk first about just quickly form We can start with anything people want Yeah Had several questions for the US chair for the group and that is that There were a number of issues who were raised questions who were raised in the committee discussion About the proposed policy And So I guess my questions were was there any prioritization in the way they were presented and Art was it put together so that if one member of the committee Raised an issue. It's listed. Is there any way to tell? Whether there was Broad support or just a single person raising an issue for it to be listed The way I put it together was if it was in the minutes it went into this memo as a basic Here's what was recorded. So whether it was one counselor or many it's in this memo Which is why we need to talk about what we should put in it Whether we want to delete stuff whether we want to add stuff and all But at this point it's if it was mentioned. I tried to put it in the memo to be as inclusive as possible So thoughts on whether that should be the case would be welcome Yeah, I think we would need to Come to just a group understanding given the fact that it's a small committee And it's it was obviously a very thoughtful discussion because There was nothing that I would have thought to raise had I been here. There wasn't included I Think that's important to get it all There But I guess We do have to as a group come to that next question that you're raising as to whether Prioritization is something that we need to do as a group Well, I haven't had a chance to read this which looks very interesting I know that I woke up having thoughts about housing and places where I have lived and I I guess my concern is that some of this is leading towards I guess it's 40 are and I went to one of those information programs and I did not see the examples as being things that I wanted in the downtown of Amherst We don't have Housing for reuse. I think the only example might be the east street school Which may or may not be retained depending upon the person who ends up Coming on to that property to develop it We don't have the big old factories which have really create such wonderful opportunities say in east Hampton I the idea of of an apartment building such as the Brickyard north Hampton in downtown Amherst as family housing Is upsetting to me because there is no community space no outdoor space And I don't see how that really gets us where we want to go I lived many years in New York City. I taught in the Bronx I know that when I was there the Bronx was moving away from what truthfully what we just call projects And projects did were in fact located in pieces of grass. They had big areas of grass around them to make up for their height Um and they were moving towards what you would call defensible space defensible housing They were moving into small row houses Because they felt that that was safer and people would have a sense of property and ownership And you would also have that little piece of land where you could at least put a chair Or plant a few flowers Or a vegetable or have a kid dig a hole and um I think that we have a the master plan Is one of its aims was to avoid suburban sprawl And I think we're going maybe in the wrong direction. Um, I don't think anyone wants suburban sprawl But there are ways of doing houses Row houses small row houses Some of the suggestions in one of the housing studies that was done before Where there is The lot sizes are smaller. There are smaller houses I see that as a better direction to go and for families and we have such housing in Amherst We have housing where there is grass around it Where there are two or three stories tall And there's a sense to have community. I mean we saw this last week with the people from North village We all know those houses are old and run down and not attractive But they really didn't care because it was the layout of the community that mattered They had space and they children had places to walk and to run People had a chance to mix and mingle and to interact and to get to know each other and to form the bonds that make a community so, um, I just want to I understand the need to to think of housing, but to me, they're not units their homes And I I want there to be The ability to have community and I think we have some better examples In Amherst than some of the houses I saw at the hearing of the the forum on 40 our houses So I I just want to bring that back to I feel like my mic is not on is it Is it there? Can you guys it is it okay because it just it does not sound like hers. Yeah Um, right and so it doesn't sound like it's on. Um, let's bring it back to what we're discussing today Which is the feedback we need to provide We'll recommend providing We go back to the council with some feedback of what we discussed and then that goes back to The council will adopt something that goes back to the affordable housing trust. So can we bring what you just? Summarized and talked about to Back to how that might look in feedback for The housing the draft housing priorities policy that that we've been talking about and well I think Right some of this is is is responding to some things in the master plan about increasing density downtown and so And it's trying to to to create affordable housing With that in mind. So I guess what I wanted to do was to Question whether that goal was still the goal that we wanted in the master plan Other aspects of this about setting side having an easier way of dealing with Affordable housing by having just a numbers count. I think that's good It might not help Where it's it says the affordable housing policy should consider policies Related to UMass and the housing of students on and off campus. I'm I'm Um Would love to have a little bit more information because it's not clear to me that we have any impact on what UMass does And how it affects housing priority. So I don't quite see how it fits into the policy I'll address that one because I think I'm the one that talked about that last meeting And and I wasn't sure how to word it on here my my thoughts were if we're looking at an affordable housing policy And the council's seeking to adopt something like that a policy that doesn't even Address how to talk to UMass about what they're doing. Yeah, we might not be able to affect them but A policy that doesn't address that Part of housing Seemed to me missing something now that addressing might be we know we need to react to what they're doing But if they do or don't do something Our plans might have to change or maybe it's just we need to be in conversation with them to keep up with And so I don't know whether I don't know how to word it in here, but it was more of there seemed to be a glaring absence of even stating that A lot of our affordable housing policies probably Are affected by What UMass is doing or in an attempt to potentially Create and sort of craft out a section of housing that Might not be available to students, you know And so there might need to be policies or somehow to research into can we create zoning or You know restrictions that Are age-based maybe or or something to And I don't know you can do that for seniors in some in some states, you know So can you do that for other things? I don't know But maybe there's maybe a housing priorities policy needs to address that Just that elephant in the room to me and staying silent seem to be missing So I don't know if it's worded well here. Maybe it needs a rewording but Um, let's have us our conversation and then we can bring john up for commenting. Yeah Um, yes, that's been a question. There there have been some housing where somebody has developer has said Not for students and I remember my husband said, I don't think you can do that You know just say students can't can't live someplace But um, I think we could think about um Integrated housing I mean we have many students who live among in my neighborhood in the individual private homes And they all behave very nicely when they're living Amongst families and and senior couples There's a new development in sunderland. I think it's called 116 north Which uh may have been done with 40 are But it's not in the middle of the downtown. It's got a big piece of property It is selling itself as being a right up the road from UMass It talks about housing for students a workforce housing 25 percent of it is affordable housing They have a huge 8,000 square foot like social hall as part of it. They have Grounds amenities places for people to do things um So there it's obviously it's going to be families some student families some non-student families some worker families and students And it might turn out that this could be a good community model Um putting all students together all at once might be I think we've seen that that creates crazy things on the weekends I'd love to take a few minutes on that project, but I think My thought on I know exactly where that project is in sunderland. I think um time will tell As to who lives in that in that um complex The one observation I would make um, and I think you alluded to it dorthy is that um, it is not in a village center Is this is the one right off of 116 as you're going north right and From um from a sustainability standpoint, I would kind of question Why there but anyway that's sunderland and that's that's that's their that's their project I just wanted to go back to a couple of things just on master planning and Just a couple of things to keep in mind as as we move through this discussion with john and the and the trust A couple of things that I talk about a lot with my staff so one thing we've got to remember is is The land base is finite in amherst. We only have so many acres And so many acres of that land is already spoken for in a way either owned by The university amherst college hampshire college The state owns a lot of land in south amherst on the mount hoyoke range We've protected a lot of land for farming Long term and we've protected land for conservation. So To me that's a limiting factor and we have to keep that in mind um To me density as we look at global climate change as we look at The way uh, our planet is going density to me Equal sustainability we cannot keep growing and We we talk about sprawl and so anytime we extend sewer lines. We extend water lines beyond Already existing water and sewer lines to me. We just need to think about that. Is that where we want to go with growth? So Density to me is all about Energy conservation, you know the the more people we can put downtown and in village centers The less we have to extend water lines sewer lines electric lines gas lines, et cetera, et cetera and the list goes on And then lastly and and john and and i and natan hoy and others have talked about costs So when you're talking about, um, affordable housing any kind of housing the more units With think about walls the fewer walls you need to build or the or the number of walls you can share With multiple units saves money. So therefore you can make housing more affordable Across the board whether it's market rate housing or affordable housing So every time we plop an individual house on a piece of raw land All of those expenses Are tremendously greater than if you do four units or eight units or 16 units So That's the way people in affordable housing think And that's the way we all should be thinking is how many units can we build? Together to keep the costs down because every time we add something Think of it a branches on a tree every time We extend the branches the costs go up and the environmental costs go up as well So that's kind of the way we think about it in planning and and working with the affordable housing trust and and Groups like valley cdc and and wayfinders and in the state Just as an aside as an elderly person I if I were not going to stay in my home I'd want to be downtown where I could walk really walk to the bookstore and the library and Things so I think that broad generalizations about any of amherst population We need to let go of as much as we can to address issues of sustainability address issues of choice Well that was one of the topics that steve brought up that he thought he would like to live downtown too But that's not what's been built What has been built is a place that most seniors would find attractive downtown So I think we're getting a little bit away from this discussion That will come back as we're we bring ourselves into a discussion on master plan, but let's get back to feedback on the Policy the priorities policy that has been presented to us that we have to get back to the council andy Yeah, no, this has actually been a very interesting discussion because dorthy's brought up the point About what is the nature of the housing that would really Be attractive and then david brought up the question that it had Got into my mind as she was speaking which is questions of density and land use and what we have available in use I think that the question ultimately That we've got to come to grips with as we're dealing with comments on this policy is Is it practical to set a numerical goal? and Say that because To set a numerical if you really want to achieve a numerical goal Probably need to make compromises on some of the issues that have been discussed what those compromises Are is going to be a combination of discussion that our planning department needs to have along with Who develops houses and what They say is feasible and what they advise us is feasible because we can't we're not in the business of building housing It's not our area of expertise and we need to call in that expertise Impaired with the planning department to see What you can affordably build That will achieve the numerical goal if you are going to set a numerical goal I guess the other thing that I thought about that is is that as I've looked at what we have done successfully here to Create affordable housing in amherst and we've really had some great successes and I think we need to Both be proud of our successes, but also look at what led to them And it was seizing opportunities It was not that we always created the opportunities, but There were things that were happening in sort of combinations of circumstances Rolling Rolling green And the fact that it became available and that We could combine forces with beacon and that we could Look for cpa money and Put together a package and that we had some incredible staff support in making that All those pieces come together created success As far as things like using the tax incentive program for the other beacon partnered project It was also because It was a developer who had a piece of land that Was the right Place to be able to put something So there was again a combination of circumstances, but it was an seized opportunity It wasn't one that We necessarily Could have created all on our own But it was because there were others who were coming forward and we said hey We can use this and leverage affordable housing What we're thinking about knee street school is sort of similar but again a different set of circumstances So it isn't the numerical goal that got us there It was the opportunities that got us there and the fact that we were able to Take hold of those opportunities and what we want to do Is to create a climate That says we look for those opportunities and we will go after them and do whatever we can to make them work when they are there and it's Creating a community will that it is our goal to do that I think those are really good remarks and it reminds me that we have We do have a lot of good examples and Wayfinders seems to be a great group And I've been to Olympia Oaks and I think it's the I don't know the exact name There's another place that they have a farm down south in the southern Amherst Do they come to us? Do we go to them? How do we how does how does a project with wayfinders come about? That's my question well the project like Olympia Oaks is a project where The town worked with the university that was a that was a 25 year project, but Even for affordable housing that's so that's a long one, but it was complicated working with with the with the with the university But in the end. Yeah, we we brought Invited wayfinders to the table and and so we had a combination of collaboration between the university the town and wayfinders A lot of times it is as Andy said it's seizing that opportunity It's It's bringing Recognizing there is an opportunity whether it's Olympia Oaks rolling green North square it's recognizing the town being aware and and and seizing that opportunity I have a I moved to Amherst To live in the Pomeroy Lane cooperative when it first opened and I know that it had been created by Abodes of parents who had Adult children with cognitive and physical disabilities. I don't want to take us too far off But it meets many of the criteria. It was community open space small amount of property 25 families I guess I would love to know how that Particularly developed because it felt like it was an outgrowth of real need Of parents who lived in Amherst And possibly other areas who were working together. Do you have any information about that? And if it's too far afield? I'm just really curious Dave do you it predates me working for the town But I think there's a there's a common thread in all of these whether we look at that cooperative or whether we look at The co-housing at pulpit hill road, you know people individuals want to see something Something happen in town and if there's a receptivity and as Andy said, there's there's a willingness to seize opportunity I think that makes all the difference in the world Yeah the idea of mixed income because The families were market rates section eight and a four low income And it was an incredible community that developed very similar to north village in terms of how we cared for one another So Could just one thing to add mandy and that is It's really important to keep in context here housing markets and Like it or not Those drive the market drives what is built in any town We can seize opportunities and and and I think you know not I think part of this policy effort is to really articulate That we are a town that believes These things and that we will take aggressive steps to move in that direction um And and be a player. I don't want to put words in john's mouth be an aggressive Assertive player in that market People ask me all the time. Why don't we have more senior housing? Why don't we have senior affordable housing? The simple answer here. I think is market If there was a market for it where people could make a profit We would have more senior housing and the bottom line is People have looked at that and we have we have encouraged them to look hard at that and up until now They're other than applewood Upper orchard. Um, the market has not been strong In in that sector of our housing you know of our housing so um, we've encouraged it. We are still encouraging it, but um it The private sector has not said. Oh, we're going to come in here and build 200 new units of housing specifically for seniors or retirees You may recall that hamshire college took a took a stab in this direction with veridian village Unfortunately, the market crashed so um, they spent a tremendous amount of money they had I think it was 130 units 180 units I can't remember off of 116. They spent a tremendous amount of money designing it um, I believe if I'm not mistaken beacon was working with them and The economy, uh, their their price points were very high because of cost and then the economy tanked And there went a retirement community that could have been a taxable large development for amherst So market makes all the difference Great discussion. Um We're aiming for a vote at the next meeting which is next week on A memo of some sort or a feedback thing. I've been taking notes on this one My notes and I'm just going to run through my notes from what I've gotten Through this discussion to change and modify on this memo. Um We would go back and delete any any section that doesn't have items in it. Um, but Under the third point in defining affordable housing and unit goals The is it a practical numerical goal is what I heard andy talking about Something about seizing opportunities versus just encouraging developers to build And adding some of that into that it might end up getting split into a couple of different numbers The the next one under project evaluation criteria based on what Dorothy was saying Things about is it possible to include in the criteria community building aspects of a design of a project, you know Things that would help Can that be part of how we decide whether to fund a project? And in the general feedback revisit number eight the umass and housing of students and figure out a way to reword that to better communicate What i'm trying to to get at with referencing The university and all um those are what i've got right now Is there anything that is listed here or drafted here that that this committee Seeks to delete Let's see if there's anything people want to say. No, I actually don't want this listed You know, like I said, I included everything including community member comments on this But even things that Were like the umass thing that's a one counselor Comment are there stuff that we don't feel we should forward on to the council as potential feedback to the trust Dorothy Do we have in here that um a straightforward? Uh requirement of 15 percent Affordable housing so that's the 15 a.m. I sorry. That's the wrong one. Um, so in general feedback Number nine so the very last thing I listed as examples in the member of the public comment Um increasing Minimum percentage of affordable housing if you want me to pull that out as a counselor comment I can certainly do that Well, it's it's it's I'm looking at this quickly, but it's it's a complicated paragraph I I thought just a really simple straightforward one that that new housing that 15 percent be affordable Um 15 percent in in I guess units or space Because the what we have now is so is complicated and nobody's using it As a separate Just I was just thinking The the number 250 is daunting So I'm thinking of kind of inch by inch day by day, you know Kind of like we could if we do a lot of little things we might get somewhere close to that number I think having that number is very important I'm different than andy. I think I think it is achievable and I think But it's critical that we have a goal and I'd actually like to see it larger and Be a more flexible definition Would you like me to put in there right now? It's counselors have I can put some counselors We we can hedge that so that some Want higher someone, you know, but I'll I think it might be important to note that that For that one There are concerns Multiple directions Yes, Dorothy So I'll work on some creation of that paragraph. Yes, Andy I mean, it's worth having a numerical goal even if it's aspirational Because you then are reaching to something but I think we don't want to set up a numerical goal that is Puts us in a position of having a policy that then we say we failed I think that's the danger of putting in a numerical goal is that You may not reach it, but as long as it doesn't have a timeline to it Which is Just have to go back and look at it to make sure it doesn't have a timeline limit to it, but that's where the Question of an aspirational goal turning into something that you're setting yourself up for potential failure Is really a more significant problem And these are in the other thing I was just going to respond to that was said this reference was made to butternut farms and I I think if we ask Connie Krueger who is working for the town and the planting department Is the time that that was built How complicated it was the level of Neighbor Opposition to it The litigation that resulted the length and cost of the litigation Those were all huge pieces that you really need to understand the level of perseverance it takes To decide you're gonna do something like that and the Willingness to Confront neighborhood opposition Even if it's defending a lawsuit that neighbors bring Those are all things that have political consequences that a council that's elected by the public needs to be aware of as it Delves into a policy. These are not easy things always to achieve I think you have somewhere near the top The concern about people at the Bottom of the income level, I guess I would think of it people people who are on disability or ssi At that income level, there's almost no housing And one of my questions I don't have an answer yet is whether it is better to Have some units at that income level Maybe two or three or just scattered throughout whatever new construction there is or whether it's better to have it together I don't know the answer to that yet, but it's something I'm thinking about but We we if people have a disability and get a disability check and that's what they live on Then I can't there has to be places for them to live in the town And not to have that is I think just really bad I'm not hearing too much about things we should delete from this Are we missing some feedback is there stuff that Counselors here want to see added into this feedback at this point Beyond what I've noted to change for next week pat Well, I'm not sure where this goes and after The last meeting where we just as a council Or after one of the hickory ridge public comment period I was talking to do two gentlemen outside And one of them said to me affordable housing. That's really public housing, right? It's public housing and I said no I think it's more complicated than that and it's for and he said well, you know what that means And it means that we'll have people from outside of Amherst moving here And my response was and and will benefit from all that creativity and energy and intellect What I'm getting at is there's a great deal of prejudice in Amherst About this about affordable housing And I think that Somehow or other in the policy We need to make some kind of statement about what our our beliefs or values are Because I'm kind of getting tired of New quoted ways of expressing disdain for a variety of people So I think I'll attempt to add something into the comments for the introduction part of the policy to talk about Um More of that I'll come up with wording for next week. Yeah Anything else we feel is missing from this handy I guess the one thing that Is touched on really briefly in number five counselors asking for more explicit link to the master plan We need to look at what the master plan says about Uh the type of housing and who we want to encourage to Be a part of our community subject that pat has brought up And that has to be a part of the master plan and conversation because Esther plan is the larger vision of what we want our community to be and So I would strengthen that statement Be a little bit more explicit about Making sure that we create a community conversation to make sure that there's really a Will and an interest In the community to have the kind of community that has the diversity Of housing that is envisioned And Basic draft was I just added to the end of that sentence at this point and I can refine it So it would read counselors are asking for a more explicit link to the master plan and to creating a community conversation To ensure that there is a will in the community to have the diversity of housing And residents that are envisioned by the plan I think I got sort of what you were referring To andy, I think that's right and I think pet's nodding and whatever that's And any other comments on this At this time it will be back next week for a final review revision and hopefully Vote to send back to the council as our sort of Final thing. Yes You know building housing is one thing running housing is another and I guess that's part of where my concern is In groups where as I mentioned wayfinders again, there seems to be an ongoing Role in running that community Um, I lived in an affordable housing in statin island once and the apartment was lovely The size was great, but it was a terrible experience and it's one I had to run from before my life. I felt There was it was just not being run. I don't know where the People were who were supposed to be running it all the the front door locks were broken all the time There were drug addicts in the elevators and then there was a murder And that's when I said I'm not living there anymore the house was wonderful. I mean the apartment house. It was great But it wasn't run. I just want to Attempt to potentially close this up. Do you have something before okay? Um We're going to bring this back next week. I didn't have a chance to talk to andy He's chair of finance committee, and I know this has been referred to finance committee And this is something we as a committee of crc might want to discuss too this one has From amherstown council dash community resources committee I envision potentially at some point the town council coming up with one document Um, I don't know where we as a crc fall on forwarding this When is finance taking up this discussion? Well, we're going to take the discussion up next week and We're a little bit behind because we had some other major things that were going on But I think that we're going to try and not talk about Housing policy, but what would be financially required from the community to make this happen and um What Choices we would have to make in order to allow that to occur Uh, and that's probably going to be the focus and Sort of being on both committees Is and I'm not the only one dorthy's on both committees too Um In the end it's the council that's going to then Take financial considerations and the housing policy considerations that come out of this committee and try and put it together into a cohesive set of Comments as to whether This is something as presented initially that We can get on board with or What changes we would like to see as a council and that's where It has to come together. I I guess where I was this one was drafted as sort of a A midway between just a CRC memo But also something that the town council could potentially adopt Which is why it's technically addressed to the affordable housing trust and not the town council as a whole um I don't know whether finance committee wants to Take a stab at just adding to the end of this or putting its comments into that or you'll you'll have to as as chair Think about how you want to get finance committee's response, you know Feedback back, but it could potentially be an addition to This memo at some point in time When we're another the two have to come together into a single whole Yep, okay, so we will bring this back next week For a formal vote to send on to the council In some sort of Form that's similar to this We are meeting the 23rd. Yes So we are meeting a week from today Because we're off schedule with this one because of last week's holidays So we'll come back then With the changes I will keep the changes tracked so people can see what happened between what they saw this week And what they will see next week andy. It looks like you have a comment Yeah, I mean the other thing that john might when he's comments on the speak to it, too Thank you. Whether the time Goal that was put forward by the Housing trust is really realistic goal and what kind of flexibility is there? Because I think that we're as a council in our Two committees in coming together and having council discussion and getting a final end product We need to look as a council on how we can handle that and there are other committees When I Talked to the chair of the community preservation act committee They hadn't yet had an initial discussion and I don't think that That is a committee that they had really focused on what was expected of them or what was being asked of them So I think this is a We need to look at the whole timeline So thank you for a reminder though I had promised that since we had no public comment when we had public comment period and we now have public in the Room And this is the main thing I think people would want to comment on in our agenda Is there any comments that the public would like to add at this time before we move on to our next agenda item? Okay, so so mr. Hornet come on up and and comment Okay, thank you for your attention to this I think you've given more attention to this than any other groups that I've gone before so far which I Definitely appreciate Of course the housing trust is very rigid and flexible. We don't want any changes to this document No Our goal is to strengthen the document and these kinds of comments and discussions are necessary to that Let me say a couple of things I was a little surprised at the comment that families aren't Indicated as important since the first bullet at the top of the second page In terms of priority populations is families So I don't know what else we should do, but I'd certainly Be interested because I do think it's very important to have families I think some of Dorothy's Comments about concern about what this housing could look like and how it could make our downtown look even worse Are certainly important and something I sympathize with Um One of the things that the consultants who are working with the town on 40 are are doing Is developing design guidelines? And I think design guidelines Properly created and enforceable should be the answer to the issues that you've raised and uh At least the first draft of those or at least of the ideas will be presented On october 24th, I think 6 30 um in the woodbury room at the Library And so I would urge everybody to come because I think it's critical And I think they're doing their best to do a good job of this because it really is important if you you know, we don't none of us want the Downtown to be simply overwhelmed by larger and larger buildings That doesn't make sense on the other hand We do want housing that's sustainable. So that means to some extent building up and Building more compact and so I hope the answer is design guidelines um Andy spoke about the need to be these aren't isn't his word but opportunistic to look for Uh, you know The chances that are there when they occur To create development and that's something that the town particularly town hall has done Quite well in the past and that we we need to continue to do um However Each project as it comes along Has unique issues and opportunities So it's impossible to say okay, how much is going to involve Town surplus property How much exactly are we going to expect from cpa or from some of the other sources? So I think um I don't think there's value if you like and trying to specify those things too closely And it also is something that i'll be discussing with the finance committee As anthy mentioned before I did meet with cpa see last night And had an opportunity to talk with them about this um I think maybe with the exception of jim olden people were saying this is a lot for us to think about right now We need some more time with it Part of that and part of that is the fact that they are now um virtually About to embark on the new round of grant proposals So making significant changes to what they have been doing Honestly is not in the cards immediately On the other hand, I think they're all interested in making certain kinds of changes And I hope that comes about But I think first they need to get past the current grant cycle And then we can be in conversations On cpa has been very supportive of Financing affordable housing I didn't want to say a little bit about mandy joe's comment with respect to the university I suppose if I personally were to draft something that went into this document related to the university It might not be printable It's a current time Just to briefly explain Nancy buffon and tony merullus came to the housing trust meeting last thursday night And I realized that understanding their plan is like unpeeling an onion You learn a little bit more each time you talk with somebody Now I know we all were excited that close to a thousand new residential beds were going to be built on campus Uh Within a couple of years or so Well, that's not exactly true The net new beds is quite a bit smaller First of all 300 of them are replacements for north village and for Lincoln apartments And it also turns out that at the same time they open this new residence They're planning on shutting down 4 to 500 beds in their existing dormitory space for renovation So at the end of the day what we're talking about Is maybe a couple of hundreds net new beds Uh, and as I've said and you've all heard me say this The gap between the number of students who are enrolled And the number of residential beds on campus is Roughly 17,000 The university spokespersons will say i'm overestimating But even if it's 15,000 It's a pretty big number And it has a huge impact on our local market Now we could say that in this document On the other hand those aren't policy statements and you keep reminding me Mandy Joe This is supposed to be a policy document I also want to remind everybody is i'm constantly reminded of Alyssa Brewer's admonition this thing's already too long You got to figure out a way of shortening it up So I think all of the things that people have recommended for the most part Are things we should try to find a way to include And I do appreciate them But some as I've suggested may be harder than others If any you have any specific questions I think we're we're good. Thank you for your comment. Oh Andy Oh, yeah the the five-year time No, the just the completion of this process for the policy whether the goal you had for Getting everyone's comments back and then ultimately it is a council action whether the whole Process need needs to be revisited So that we keep moving but in a realistic pace It's a good comment Andy and it reminds me of something else I intended to say As a couple of people have said there are zoning issues involved here And I've met with the planning board once And I'm scheduled I think to meet with them again in mid-November Which of course is later than both finance and community resources or have been meeting My sense is that there are at least two members of the planning board that want to change at least the inclusionary zoning by-law Which again has been something discussed here Um And that that might well go in as a policy piece of the policy and there will be other things that they decide to do So to the extent that we can I guess I feel less stress about this has got to be done by Thanksgiving Then that it really should reflect the thinking of the various town boards and councils So that we do have a policy That we all feel that we can work with and we can work on together So what that means is I'm reluctant at this moment in time to give a timeline I do appreciate the attention that's gotten from town council And we'll continue to work with seatback and the planning board To get Their thoughts as quickly as I can Does that answer it hindi? Okay So thank you, mr. Hornick. Um, we are going to move on to our next discussion item Which is um Something that one of our members asked to put on the agenda, which is a potential community resources retreat um, so I like pat Who asked us to put this on the agenda to talk about what Her thinking is about the potential for this and what it could accomplish and what it might do And then we can discuss whether as a committee we want to go forward with trying to schedule something I think for me the idea um of a retreat Would enable us to collaborate and come forward with a process that we would use And also allow us to address How are we going to? Collaborate and with other committees Um, and I have how will we use liaisons? Where will we get information? But I also feel like you know, there's been some rough rides and um I'm thinking about Losing sarah who was an important member of the committee and whether or not there's some Just some personal work that we might need to do as a group of five to come together So That's about I am interested in hearing the other members thoughts on Holding a retreat and what if they want to hold on what? It might also include now that we've heard what pat is thinking Dorothy Well, I could see Not this this is not the same thing. She's proposing But like a a study Retreat Where we deal with the important documents that we're supposed to have mastered And go through them in detail with help And then sit down and talk about it So it's it's more of an academic. I think she was talking about a more of a personal thing But I'm thinking of an academic thing where I could I could really I would really enjoy getting deeply immersed into All of the the planning the master plan the housing documents So that we all Talk about it go over it get lectures on it respond on it and come out of it Feeling like okay now. I know what we're what we're supposed to be doing The idea of a retreat I think it's important to go beyond the word and say what it is that we want to accomplish My observation about this committee Is that the challenge that we've had is is that it's sort of become the catch-all committee Anything that didn't get assigned to another committee got assigned to this one and it makes For this very broad and unfocused set of priorities and assignments in the We've been trying to work at Understanding what it all what everything is that's assigned to us and put some order to it The retreat might offer a little bit of a more unstructured Opportunity to look at all of those different areas that We might enumerate as being within the responsibility of this committee and To pick up on things that didn't previously said what kinds of documents Pertain to it what other committees that We would need to work with in order to Move these issues forward and what are the underlying community and council values that need to be Incorporated in all of our work I'm glad Darcy's here because Darcy Always is my reminder that we need to be thinking about our energy goals and That What we do in the various things that we talk about when it comes to planning and Transportation All of the other things that may fall into this committee's Perview that we need to be thinking about what are the core values and that's one of them that Reducing our Footprint on greenhouse gas emissions is I think always has to be There is something that we at least Consider in every discussion that we have and there are others Didn't mean to pick on that one in particular, but Darcy's being reminded reminds me of it. So I thank you for being here I'm trying to figure out everything right now. What I'm hearing is that People are Think it's a good idea to have a retreat is I think what I've heard from Everyone even if there are different ideas as to what that might include. So I think that requires me to come back and Come up with a potential plan Maybe pull for dates Or maybe try and set aside one of our upcoming meetings as a two-hour discussion of things that could maybe serve as a retreat So so I think what I need to do is come back think about How to fit that into our schedule without overburdening us counselors Can it fit into a different meeting? What it would look like What we might What that format might look like what might be on that agenda and come up with a proposal to bring back here To get everyone's yes that that sounds good before we go ahead and schedule it Although maybe come up with a schedule a time and then work toward an agenda that that everyone is comfortable with Is does does that sound? Like a way forward Dorothy I went with that except for set aside a meeting I don't think setting signing I'm setting aside a meeting would do what it is that we need to have done First of all, I would prefer to be sitting In a much more informal manner Not at 8 30 in the morning Probably on the weekend. I think a feeling of a little more time Is is necessary a little bit more spread out There is Andy said we we The phrase catch all committee sounds like we're not really important, but you could also say we're the heart committee We're we're everything that really Matters except financial matters comes together We can't disband the finance committee But okay, so so what i'm hearing is potentially a weekend, but but longer than two hours At least longer than two hours. Um, I I am concerned about I will say frankly as chair I'm concerned about a weekend meeting for a number of reasons staff time, but also counselor time You know having a child weekends with family become important and we're already looking at multiple council meetings in November on the weekends Yeah, pat um I feel strongly that Maybe there wasn't enough emphasis on how do we work? What is the process that we will use moving forward? Um, I think that really needs to be discussed and so That feels important and I had one other thing but can't remember what it is right now Oh if Dorothy I If you want to get together and we can read the master plan together or talk about issues and I'd be happy to do that Um, it's an interesting document and I think at several of earlier meetings when we were had christine here and stuff We were we brought forward things that we thought needed to be included Sustainability issues and different things. So we I have that list And we can look at it for that as well if that's something you're interested in I think there's a tentative plan I'll probably try and send out some dates sometime And see if we can get something um, I don't think October or November and maybe even December are even possible So I think we're probably looking in January just due to council schedules Yeah Yes It has all five of us would have to be available. Yeah With that we will move on on our agenda. Yeah, let me just some just summarizing some but I think that we were talking What we seem to be talking about Is a retreat that allows us to look at what are the most important goals for this committee? What documents? We need to be aware of and understand that also We I want to add one to that and that is What are the boards and committees both of the council in the town? Our partners that we need to work with And Need to develop those relationships understand those relationships What are the underlining values of the council and the community that Need to be considered within our work and then the issue that Uh Pats raised several times and that is uh process. What is our committee process in order to address all of the goals that we've put forward with the committee as this Continues Thanks for the summary We have no action items. We have no presentations. That brings us two minutes Um There are I set these up because of how the prior committee. I was chairing operated. I have been informed that CRC might have adopted a different means of approving minutes and I just want to The former chair steve Indicated to me that CRC's policy was to put the minutes out there If no one commented and had any changes they were just deemed approved Like a week or so later um I'm concerned about that process because you can't guarantee everyone's read them As chair and when I went back to read minutes to figure out What had potentially been approved or not? There were a number of minutes from months ago that did not seem complete Um, and so I don't know whether we want to revisit how to do it I have two items on minutes number one is Last week's the september 25 minutes and I think the august 18 is that the right date 21 21 august 21 minutes for approval because those were the most to the two Most recent that I had seen um We can approve them by vote today if people want to we could do it by Consensus, um, if anyone's not read them we can postpone them a week and then I want to talk about Process for past minutes To see where people stand on whether they should be approved and how and then maybe process for going forward So do we want to just start with those two sets of minutes that I specifically set forth and put in the packet And even though CRC might have a different process vote on them today To have a clear record of them being approved in some Have a clear record of that and then move on to Getting to a clear record of past approved past minutes approved Is that sound like a plan I I would would like to delay it a week The the minute I I haven't read the new ones. I hadn't accessed the packet. Okay So we will delay approval of The september 25th and august sorry september 25th and august 23rd I was doing them in the wrong order Yeah, august 21st september 25th Those two. Oh, okay, sorry We will postpone those until next week You were going to give me a list of Meetings where there were no minutes and I was going to reconstruct from my notes So that that's the next part of this discussion on minutes, which is I could not tell that minutes had been approved of any prior meeting before I took over chair As I said steve the former chairs Indicated to me that this committee had agreed to an approval by consensus. I think I would like some sort of Notations somewhere Whether it be as we go forward an agreement on which ones have been approved by consensus or which ones aren't or a One one idea I had was to designate a member of crc to Formerly go through all prior minutes And approve them or identify those that aren't exist in existence After I talked to you Dorothy. I talked to mr. Zomek and he seems to think they all exist But I just might not have been able to find them all Which might be the case And so it just it might just be that I couldn't locate them But to designate a member to go through them and and say yes, these are complete and can be approved or hey Maybe we need to deal with a little bit these specific ones a little bit more And so that would be for everything before august 21st Um Is that something this committee would be okay with doing designating one member which is allowed under public records law and open meeting law to do To go through and do that I would say it would be okay as long as that member who is not going to be me Um would reach out when in doubt Say that I think it's a good idea to do that process and then move forward with a new process So do and I don't want to do it either I was hoping you might be willing to I I don't foresee a strict timeline on this. I must say Because there are a lot of minutes I I don't feel like I am capable of it because I was not at any of the meetings Only if the committee takes me out to lunch when it's finally done Andy's chairing another committee pat would you be willing to take that on yeah I'm probably going to whine about it periodically. So do I hear a motion to designate um pat de angeles as the crc member to review and approve all Minutes of meetings prior to august 21st 2019 And Bring to the chair's attention any minutes that she believes need Additional attention So moved Second did our our recorder get that motion? Awesome Any discussion All those in favor raise your hand All those against All those abstaining Or did you vote yes? Okay So that is four zero with one amp. Okay. So the next one that I'm adding to the agenda is Process for minute approval for those minutes moving forward I guess that would include august 21st and september 25th if we want to start at that point Do we want to have formal votes at every meeting? Or do we want to Continue now that we have a minute taker with one person designated to review them and Then say they are approved and then the goal would be at a meeting report Which ones have been approved so that we can get that to the correct staff for Publication. Yes, Dorothy. I think I'd like to take a minute once we have the control To ask if the minutes are approved because that prompts people's memory If there's something that they need to add or ask a question about but it should go very quickly Okay, so I'm hearing there's some desire to have an agenda item with a quick vote And just to confirm it going forward So that's what we will do We will keep up with it every meeting. We'll we'll head for the prior meetings minutes and and hold the vote august 21st september 25th and Given that the meeting is next week. I know our minute takers are very quick But I'm not going to put that on you as it may not We'll probably Wait till the meeting after for for those So so we won't be looking at today's minutes. Although we may have them in draft form at some point will We won't put that on the agenda to approve. We'll be looking at september 25 and august 21 I don't think there's anything else related to minutes announcements I wanted to and then there are some items now unanticipated by the chair which are Mainly housekeeping stuff but announcement wise I am in the process When I do agendas for committees. I try to keep a Running list of what might be coming up the process So that people on the committee and also those in the public have an idea of What's coming? What I am looking at right now I And I just want to go through some of this so people know what's going on next week We are trying I'm working with mr. Zomek and trying to Get a Joint meeting of this committee and the transportation advisory committee In order to deal with and at least discuss the Referral on the mgl chapter 90 section 17c and 18b speed limit issue They have a meeting scheduled for next wednesday at 7 p.m We have one scheduled for next wednesday at 8 30 in the morning We don't have confirmation at this point as to whether their members can make our 8 30 a.m meeting I am curious whether our members could make a 7 p.m meeting or potentially start earlier because their meeting is going to I assume we'll have other Dave just reread the email from gilford mooring this morning Um, and I misread it early this morning. I think they started five and end by seven. Oh, okay, so um, so there's a possibility of Of joining them if their agenda is not too full So would a five to seven Potentially starting earlier or going later so that we're there for half of their meeting And then we continue ours if they cannot join us at 8 30 in the morning would A five to seven on wednesday be doable pat It's doable, but I would have a hard stop at seven no matter what because I have a commitment from seven to nine They meet in this room and the conservation commission meets at seven so they really There it's a very hard stop. In fact, I think it's prior to seven so Or earlier than five to then go to five and whatever Okay This is why I'm asking so andy This would be the 23rd One week from today I'm trying to probe a little bit on that because Clearly they have other business. Yes, this wouldn't be their whole meeting It might be part of their meeting if we were Would it I didn't hear the specific story. They would it help to be earlier or later or later, so What i'm suggesting is maybe I could work with gilford mooring to say Could could we have this joint discussion from? Six to 645 and they do their other business from five or 5 30 whenever they begin would that be helpful or is That not going to help you Eventually a 6 p.m. Start for us might be possible And he says yes, we don't obviously know steve 645 feels too late because that's 15 minutes. Oh, yeah. No, no, I said from six six to 645 To continue exploring general The draft agenda has that on it This housing priorities policy final vote Which means if we're doing something joint at night, we might have to be here in the morning or postpone it to the november Sixth meeting because it sounds like finance I I'd have to talk to lin on when she's putting it on our council agenda um and then Minutes and the only other thing was potentially since we would have gilford in the room and tac in the room I could work with them as maybe having a conversation On between the two committees on how we can work together On transportation issues and and where those those lines lie, but that would Might not be possible given time frames, but But we'll we'll see I'll try and do something so that we're not here both at 8 30 and at six or something, but Pay attention to your email Yes Crossings this is about not killing people when they try to cross the street Uh, I have a very hard time driving through Amherst because I can't see the people at the crosswalks And I can't make them wear white clothes or a glow in the dark stripe So I think we need more light at crosswalks Even right downtown right here a driving home the other day I remember it's thinking saying to Bob slow down. You can't see the people at all So it's a problem. It's a it's a really big problem. I said this is a pedestrian town There's always somebody trying to cross in a crosswalk, but it's very dark Save that thought for when we are discussing transportation And to give you an idea of what else is coming up Um The council has their october 28th meeting on the master plan the public forum required by the charter on the master plan In about a week and a half 10 days So that means there could be a referral from that meeting to us to discuss updates to the master plan That discussion would start on november 6th um for how that might happen And we are set to bring back archipelago investments and the spring street redesign on parking On november 6th the tentative date, but that might get pushed depending on stuff since we know it's not as time urgent now Since and all um, but that is a tentative november 6th date Oh, so that's the tentative schedule coming up for people to know about announcement wise Items not anticipated which is Which I will move on to which is basically how to get packet information to this committee efficiently But also so that everyone is ready in time the goal is to have the packet information out a week before the meeting So that it gives everyone time I Will try my hardest to make sure that is possible Um, I have always used share point to get that information out. It sounds like that Is a struggle for some people and so I'd like some help on How best to disseminate that information number one? Um, and I I have a couple of options and number two Staff is looking for some guidance on what needs to be in paper day of the meeting to What needs to be in paper at our table's day of meeting? Do people need paper copies of stuff for the meeting or is a share point or an online distribution? Sufficient is is staff is looking for guidance I have a mixed reaction to that because mostly I've gotten very used to reading now and and the laptop and it does save Paper, but there are sometimes documents or something that's coming up like it's great to have the hickory ridge map Uh, things like that. So I um, I don't know how to But I don't think in general we need to have everything coming to us No, I think we can if I could We can play that a little by ear clearly when there are Guests whether it's archipelago. We will ask them to bring You know visuals for you to see I think as our meetings Take on some some more some meteor topics I I suspect we'll have some audience members who will want to see what we're talking about whether it's a policy document earlier or a map or a Plan of some sort, you know looking at an intersection or whatever it might be So we'll play that by ear a little bit and um, yeah I think I use paper if I can find documents I print them at home um I use this when I can't see the screen Um because I can't see I can't read it half the time So I am a paper person and I really do like paper. I also like links I don't know how to make a link, but I know how to push a link and um When you send me a document send me a link and I'll get it and then I print it So if I can like this week I sent out an email that said find it on share point if I can link to that folder on share point You can access the documents. Okay, because I think I can create those links pretty easily Instead of just saying find it there. I think I can create a link that says here's the link to the packet materials And then you'd be good. Does that work for everyone if I can create a link to just attach a link into an email? Okay, Margaret did links and I always liked that You can send them to me if you and I can post them to share point. Yes So what I will do to notify people is I'll send an email that has a link to a packet Or specific documents. It sounds like A number of us if we're dealing with a plot plan or some sort of real visual picture versus just a document with words That that is helpful to have projected on a screen potentially but also maybe in paper form Because it's easier and bigger at that point Any other suggestions for how to make these meetings run well and have everyone informed about what's going on? well in advance Not seeing any so that's what we'll go with if people run into problems feel free to talk to me And say I need more help or I need it done differently And you're gonna you're gonna be really good about sending them out early, which is great But then send out the one the day before the reminder With a link because I get so much email That things get lost and things move very fast here With all the different committees So if you send it so that we can get it and read it and then remind us to do it This isn't done specifically on this topic, but It's related and that is I'd like to have a little bit more of a sense Excuse me Of coming agenda items and where we're Headed on certain things at least to know that they're coming up For example a parking We are do we have a plan for when we're going to talk about parking just so we know about it Uh, we know it's coming that that's in the self Helpful the agenda if you open up an agenda and page down on your current agenda go to a second page that will have Scheduled and non scheduled upcoming agenda items. I will try to keep that up to date for something like parking I know I I have a feeling it will come be referred to this committee when a final report comes out to the council I just don't know when they're going to issue that final report So I can't tentatively schedule it for a meeting yet Um, you'll see on the tentative on next week's tentative schedule It's missing some now that climate action goals as recommended by ecac if they're referred by the council on november 18th I hope to discuss them at our november 20th meeting that obviously might change and I will try and keep that list Updated as much as possible. It's also where on under the unscheduled items. I will put anything people from the committee mention about future agenda items So that we have it's my way of not losing track of Agenda items people would like to talk about too And so at any meeting at any time someone can say hey, this one's been on the unscheduled list for months Can we move it to a scheduled item or can we put it on an agenda and I will make note of that too Does that sound Like you were looking for Andy Yes, okay So that that's where it'll be For anyone to look for okay with that. I think any other items not anticipated by myself 48 hours in advance No, I just wanted I just haven't Yeah, it's not an item. So I'm not I will not be here on the 6th I will be at a retreat around food access Just to let people know now But I yeah If I have documents in advance and I could send you comments if I have them Seeing nothing else Does this committee like to move to adjourn or do they just like the chair to declare it adjourned? I will just declare it adjourned our meeting adjourned at 10 13 a.m