Hello, welcome to the Donahue Group. We're glad you could join us for this lively half hour of conversation about local issues. We're in this beautiful studio with this beautiful Christmas tree. If it appears to be coming out of Ken Ristow's head. It is. Then it's just the Christmas tree killer, but we think it's a very beautiful set. The clock is working now, so all is well with the city. Now you might ask, how can the city do this and still hold the budget? Levy the same, not the levy, the rate, the same. I think it was kind of lost in the storm and drong of the past couple of weeks at the city level that the council and the mayor did a wonderful job, department heads, at keeping the tax levy the same at $8.42 per 1,000. Good, bad, indifferent, not enough? So thank you as an order. Thank you as an order. If the county's gone down and the city's the same. We keep spending as much more money. The school, what are the schools? Skyrocketing, skyrocketing. I wouldn't say skyrocketing, but there have been some increases, much of that increase on the school budget side is because of the referendums. And people knew that going in. They were told exactly that the property taxes would probably go up a little bit for a couple of years. I remember the presentation. 20, I think. No, not the next 20 years. No, it bubbled, it bubbled.  So yeah, you're paying for those big field houses and a very beautiful school over at Jefferson. I actually had a chance to see it the other day. It's a beautiful facility. If nobody's been there yet, they should go and see it. It's a vibrant, great place to be. One of the things that I think might be difficult for people to understand, I know when I joined the school board, it took me a little time to figure out the difference between the levy and the rate. The tax levy is actually going up quite a bit. Well, not quite a bit, but $450,000, I think, and how much is the whole budget? Its budget is, I believe, in the neighborhood of, I don't know, but the budget will rise by $450,000 to nearly $21.1 million. That's the property tax piece of the budget. The budget itself is somewhat larger. The amount is actually going up, but the levy itself, I'm sorry, the rate itself will stay the same. This is because the city is growing. We have not been hit by property tax value decreases as some communities have. Right, right. That helps. It does help. The new budget includes six new patrol officers replacing members who have retired or left the department, new firefighters. Sounds like a reasonable use of the budget. I do think that department departments were called upon to really look creatively at how to save money and so forth. I think the city is thinking about saving or selling some land as well. I'm not aware. Yeah. Yeah, there is some proposals to sell a couple of pieces or parcels or properties that the city does own currently and that's built into that budget and they're making a guesstimate of what they're going to be able to sell in the current real estate market where they're going to get that price where they're going to sell it at all. It'll be interesting to find out. But be able to hold it in this kind of environment with the health care cost rising, with energy cost rising to keep the rate the same is a pretty impressive accomplishment and one that the mayor ran on. So he'll be able to run on that when he decides, if he decides to run again. Sounds like he's going to. I think the huge savings in health insurance premiums projected at 1.5 million could have been 2 million but at least 1.5 million, I think is quite substantial. I know Susan Hart, the mayor's administrative officer was responsible at least in part for mining those savings and having brought it before the council which I think acted smartly in doing that. So I think these are good signs. The county levy actually went down, the dollar amount went down, didn't it Cal? So not only is the rate going down but we're being visited by little birds here. So if you hear the chirp chirp chirping of birds, it's just. It's spring time. The 12 days of Christmas is coming. Either that or we have fans in the animal kingdom. Look, there's a partridge. Exactly. Six loons, well in any event. I just have one question. I mean, they did some insurance changes, they early retirement changes and they use. Sunny Ridge. Oh, you're the county, I was thinking of the city. But Sunny Ridge, yeah, they got rid of Sunny Ridge for the county coming down. Well, I think that's the only way the county could do that. But I was thinking this vehicle fund, did they get used for early retirements and some insurance changes? So there was a little fund that they could play with to maybe get a balance to hold the tax rate the same. And maybe next year they won't have that. I know a few of the aldermen and alder women are very nervous that there have been some quick fixes and some things that are being done and it'll be interesting to see if these things are sustainable over a period of time. Well, the state of Wisconsin did that, of course. I remember just the huge discount of the tobacco settlement. The state sold its tobacco settlement to a broker, essentially, and received, I don't know, 35 or 40 cents on the dollar, if I'm not mistaken. And that fixed the whole, you know, right then and there. But, I mean, one could certainly argue that that was not necessarily smart budgeting. But I think overall it will be interesting to see how it works out. The vehicle fund, as I understand, is going to be used in large part for prepaying or paying down the city's pension liability to the state. I know the school district did that. I can't remember if the county did that or not, but I think that's a pretty smart way of doing business and seeing how things go. So, but in any event, I think that very good news from the city. So that's a nice Christmas present when you get your, well, every time you get your tax bill, you're gonna look at it and say, oh my gosh, but you can take our last years and say, oh, not too bad. Right, and of course, we always have to remember that the tax bill is not just the city. I think city residents seem to think, or can think, that the tax bill is just the city. It's not. The biggest chunk, of course, is the school district. The county is a big chunk. The city is a big chunk. LTC is a tiny chunk. Yeah, right, so that's not so substantial, but everyone has some hands in the pie, as it were. So that'll be interesting. The first vote on the budget, actually, which I consider to be fairly revolutionary news, ended up on page seven of the Sheboygan Press that Tuesday, supplanted by much, much more important information, and that is. Somebody walking your dog? No, the censure. The City Council, doing what the City Council does, you know, we really probably can't get too opinionated on this show. Oh, that's right, we can. Yeah, yeah, I know. Silly me, but. Because it's Christmas? In any event, were you on the council when Mayor Schneider was censured? Actually, I went on vacation, and I come back from vacation, and my discovery was censured. Well, I was gone for two weeks. So what happened to the vote? Whether they met, and I thought, what? Anyway, I. And wasn't it, and it was interesting to me, because as I have been told, but don't know myself, Alderman Terry Van Akron was the moving force behind that censure. Now that may or may not be true, but that's what I've been told. Yeah, I don't know, maybe it's the truth, but I think it's a combination of a couple things. They, Mayor had an opportunity to clean up the lakefront. If you remember, Broke and Dry was all shrubs, and there was a firm that was in the area cleaning up shrubs and trees, and maybe on the other side of the street. So he took advantage of a good deal to do the shrubs. Well, I don't think Mary Knowth liked that, because she was head of the parks, or the parks and forestry, and you're tearing down shrubs and trees, and we didn't go through channels. You didn't go through a committee, so maybe somebody got onto an Alderman and said, challenge that kind of thing. It was already done. And then I think there was also some paving in alleys that he had done for, as we were paving streets, paved a couple alleys for a colleague or a friend or something. And then that wasn't budgeted, and so the Alderman got a little upset, you know? So it was for actions that he was doing to make the city better. They decided to censure him for it. And do you remember? He was close, both, too, though. Do you remember what term that was in? Was that his? Because Schneider had three full terms. Okay, well, it may have been the first. When did the Broughton Drive get? Or maybe the early second term or something because Broughton Drive was around before the Marina came. So he went on to continue to have a fairly vibrant political life after that. So the question, I think, will be what will happen to Alderperson Meyer. It was kind of a strange process for those of us who aren't used to the censure process, and it's my sense maybe the council wasn't used to it either because apparently a few mistakes were made here or there. The main problem I have with it is using a fairly serious and specific process or body of rules to address conduct. I don't know. The city attorney seemed to struggle with whether or not a private conversation was actually a violation of the ethics code. I think at one point he said no because there are certain things in the ethics code that those are the violations. It's primarily designed to ensure that people don't profit economically from their service on the council. All governing bodies have these, but there's some, I think Alderman Hanna called the moral statements at the beginning, sort of the representations of why we have these kinds of things, and I believe ultimately the city attorney said that those were enforceable rules that could be acted on. Your thoughts? I watched the debate the following night, and you're absolutely right. The sense I got was that as you have like a preamble in the United States Constitution, it talks about general goals and what we're all about, what we want to accomplish here, and then you get into the nitty gritty of how we're gonna make laws and who's got what powers and all that kind of thing. The ethics code seems to have the same sort of general idea that people should behave in such a manner and deportment that brings honor and integrity to the office and all that sort of thing. And then it goes, like you said, into very, very specific, I actually looked at it, very, very specific kinds of behaviors. And so the question is exactly, the city attorney did seem to really struggle with that question, and I would think that between the meetings, you would have some time to think about it. And maybe just one of those areas of the law that's just vague and it's not, it's gonna be hard to find out whether you really can't actually punish people for it. It seems that the easier way to do is to look at, the council does have some codes of conduct. Do they not? It seems to me that they do. I got the impression from the debate and the discussion. They weren't online that I could find unless they're hidden someplace and I couldn't find them. It would have been better to probably censure her under the code of conduct that you might have for the common council as opposed to the code of ethics, which is really a state statute, right? Well, it adopts the state statute. The city ordinance is fairly limited. There are lots of other things the city could put into that code of ethics and for whatever reason, when they enacted the ordinance, they apparently chose not to do it. But I mean, the essence of it is you can't make money. And use your influence to make profit, essentially, from your position on the council, which is a very good, I mean, Judge Ziegler or Justice Ziegler has certainly been struggling with those concepts and so forth. So I guess the main concern that I would have, I think it's a political issue and people, it's politics. That's right. And it's the conduct of people in office and how the conduct themselves ought to be at a level where you don't get too picky. And when I was in a legislature, we had our disagreements with people and we'd say, that person's a jerk, but you don't oftentimes confront them and say things, I'm gonna do this or that.   And you realize that in the conduct of business, people not having healthcare and kids getting an education and roads being paved are more important than whether somebody's a jerk or not. And that's where you've got to, I think, develop a thick skin plus also as a candidate or a participant in government saying, this isn't what I ought to be doing and this is something that's a waste of my time and we'll get sort of a negative infringement on the whole process if it becomes too public of a petty type situation. Right, and there may be a fear that that will happen.  I mean, that wasn't very courteous and then Alderperson Meyer apparently said some fairly nasty things and who knows what that whole conversation was about and certainly not worthy of the office. And I don't know us how Alder people ought to be saying discourteous things that are headlines. I don't know. It depends on how elevated we want our civil government to be. I kind of want it to be elevated. School board, we all actually managed not to really call each other's names and so forth. I always said the code of conduct was no hitting, punching, kicking, spitting. And now we need to add- No name calling. And no name calling. No name calling, yeah. That's why kids have codes of conduct, you know. We treat each other. So I think the city council needs to really pat itself on the back for the fine work they did on the budget and to reinforce for city residents that it's their interests that they have at heart and hopefully they'll be able to focus on those things and that this will, number one, kind of fading people's memories just as it did for Mayor Schneider and number two, not happen a lot again. This is a slippery slope. And develop a matureness of, there are a lot of newcomers. I mean, the Mayor is relatively new when their council members are new that this is an arena where you don't get into this petty stuff. This is, you get to the bigger leagues, you just gotta learn to conduct yourself in a different level and you pass on things when certain conduct, certain things are made. I mean, if you get upset over little things, it's just gonna not let the wheels of government turn the way they ought to. Yeah. Well, and I think the Mayor did mention, in that letter to the editor, I don't know if we commented on it last time. It's hard to remember, but I think he did say that he was gonna start getting a thicker skin and that's probably a good course of conduct for him to take. You know, one of the things that kind of disturbed me a little bit is that the council members are arguing through the media when Alderman Gisha introduced this ethics resolution or this resolution to go to the ethics board and he then sent copies to the radio station. Of course, he worked there and he sent copies to the media and I thought, you don't do that. I mean, you know, I mean, people do that, but if you're really serious, you just go about your business and let the media find out that you've done this. So he's creating a situation and I was just disappointed that he did that. It would have been better if he just introduced the resolution, talked to his fellow Alderman, had them sign on and it comes up and he gets voted on, yes or no. Well, you know, it's a double-edged sword having TV. And you wonder why, yeah. I mean, it took me things, he protests a bit much. That's a thoughtful comment from Professor Risto. No, I got the same impression, Tom, that the sort of outrage that was sort of being perpetrated, I mean, it was a very thoughtless thing for Alder Woman Meyer to do. It was probably a little tacky for Ryan to go public and make a private conversation something public.  Cal was talking about and they're just young and they'll learn that. I mean, there are things I've said when I was younger that I wish I could take back, you know? But then I think there were some opportunists who had an opportunity to be in front of the cameras and to make some hay about it. It could have been, it could have been handled in lots of different ways than this. And so one wonders what all the agendas are here. This isn't the end of civil society as we know it. I know it. You know, you think it's like the end of the Roman Empire and Caesar was taking power here. Well, and much as we love these TV cameras and we really appreciate the opportunity to flap our lips here, it is an interesting process when you introduce a television camera into a courtroom, a board room, a city council chamber, or now the Wisconsin legislature after many, many years, now having those matters televised. I know I was pretty appalled when the cameras came into the school board room. Ultimately, I think it was fine. It was great and it was a good thing, but I thought, oh dear, now we need to, you know, class our act up a little bit. And actually we were fairly classy to begin with. But there's just that tendency to want to play to the camera instead of attending to the business around the table. And I think that's absolutely human nature. And to have cameras in these meetings, I think is extremely important. And I would never suggest that they be taken away, but it does, I think it adds a dynamic that is not there otherwise. And so it'll be interesting to see how it- I watched school board meetings before and after the cameras. And I think, oh, I think you're absolutely right. Overall, it gives people an opportunity to see what's going on that they never had an opportunity. A lot of us aren't going to, especially we're a little older and especially when the weather gets lousy, to really know what's going on at school board meetings or city council meetings. And this gives people an opportunity to see what's going on and be more informed. And that's all to the good. But people's behavior do change. There were certain board members who rarely said anything. And when they did, it was pretty important or raised an issue. And now they were a lot more chatty. And they were saying things that I was sitting in the audience saying, I'm not quite sure why they were making that comment. It was rather silly. But everybody needs to have their five minutes of camera time, I suppose. It's just moving on. And as we hope the city council will, so shall we. And this really speaks to both in the county and the city, they're going to be new faces. I'm kind of, I don't know, amazed is the word, but the number of retirements on the county board of long, long, long-term members is I think pretty interesting. It's like a class that's graduating here. Exactly, exactly. There was a great article in the Saturday at Shboygan Press about Jim Gilligan, who is a long, long, long-term member. They're all about the same age in the 80s and they've been around for 20 to 40 years. Right. They're all leaving. Bill Seibold, who I've worked with. Bill Jens. And just a particular word about Bill Jens. I think all these county board supervisors were terrific, but I just have a special place in my heart for Bill Jens, who has been not only the chair of the county board and I think a voice of conscience for that body and chair of the town of Lima and one of the most honorable people that I have ever dealt with and it's been a pleasure to work with him and all the supervisors, but just personally I'm going to miss Bill, I think as much as anybody and he's just a swell guy and justice is done when Bill Jens is around and I think that's pretty amazing. It's not amazing. It's just the way it is, but other people leaving, Dan Berg is not running. Will he run for the city council again? I wonder. I don't know if that will be his, I mean, that's interesting. Ken Conger, I think Ken had said that his term would be relatively short. He's been on six years though and I think has done a fine job. Henry Nelson is fairly new and I understand a fine supervisor, Held Reimer, a good guy, Val Schultz, and was Val on the city council? Val was on the city council, yes. And he lost a kind of bitter race there on the council. I don't remember who it was, Bonnie Serta or, but I don't remember who it really lost to and it was kind of recent. It was recent and I think a little- Then he ran for a county supervisor and got elected. And so I don't know, I think he's done a fine job but I'm just wondering what his thoughts are if he's gonna, if Mr. Berg and Mr. Schultz are gonna jump back into the city council race because that leads me to the next piece which is we have eight older people who are gonna be up for re-election. And as I understand, first of all running for city council does not take a whole lot. You only need 20 signatures on nomination papers from your district and I'm looking right at the camera because people who are out there and interested in city government ought to think about or county government ought to think about running. It's an interesting experience and makes you a better person in great public service. That's my pitch. But Richard Manny has already indicated he's not running. If an elected official files a notice of non-intent to run, then the usual nomination time is in place. But if you don't file that notice, in other words, you're an incumbent and you just don't file. There's another five days? Yes. Another five days to file nomination papers? That's a relative they do a lot. It was put in place because there are people who have handpicked their successor and then on the last day that person puts their papers in and the other guy doesn't. And obviously everybody thought the incumbent was gonna continue and somebody just slipped in the back door. So they're saying if you're gonna play that game, we're gonna give the process or the system a number of days after that for someone else to file papers. And that seems fair. It is. It was. And it happened in legislative races frequently. A long time incumbent would handpick when it was staffed people or something like that. It happened in Milwaukee in a couple cases and where they filed papers and people just said, well, we didn't know that this person was gonna run. There were about 20 people who were waiting for this person to retire and they just were snuckered out of the game. Well, and of course, City Council only requires 20 signatures. Obviously a legislative position is much more significant. Well, Bob Ryan is up. I'm sure Mr. Ryan will be running Jean Kittleson from the third district. Jean has been on at least two terms. I believe this would be her third term. Jim Bourne is up. He's brand new. And I would expect, and is now would likely be the new chair of the committee of the whole as Alderman Meyer has been taken from that position. Jean Clayunas has been in just one term. This is her first term. She's quite thoughtful. Bonnie Serta has been on, now Bonnie Smith. Yeah, excuse me, Bonnie Smith, right. Right. And... My understanding is she's not gonna run. Okay. She works out at the university now. She basically got married. She works in the business office full-time. She was a student out there for a while while she was doing other things and also going to school and working part-time. And so now she's kind of had a full-time job out there.  She's not gonna... So I don't know that she's announced it, but so I'm probably overstepping my bounds. No, you heard it here on the Donnie Dove group. She can and I, you know, but she had indicated she thinks it's gonna be her last term. She's not gonna run again. Cutting edge news here, right here in this room with the Christmas tree. With the Christmas tree, so yeah. Alderman Hanna is up for reelection. I would fully expect that he'll run again. He hardly had an opponent last time and so I don't know is how anyone will come out of the woodwork there. I think he's established a pretty strong position in a fairly short period of time. And then Silas Vanderweel in the eighth district is up. So it will be interesting to see who stays and who leaves. Manny and maybe Smith leaving and it may be, so it'll be interesting to see how that goes. I don't know what the whole theme will be. We've had a number of themes where let's have change, let's have new faces. Now we have new faces and they're slip ups and what to say to who in all of them. Gets them in trouble and all people say, well, we gotta do something about this board. More new faces again. I would think Kiunis and Kittleson and Bourne are gonna be just fine. They conducted themselves real well in this whole process and it's still a little while away and people's memories will fade. I don't think there gonna be any serious trouble unless some issue comes up that they happen to be on the wrong side of, but I mean property taxes have been held reasonably in advance. The police station is done. There's been lots of progress and lots of issues. I don't sense at this point that people are angry at the general council like we were feeling about a year or two ago. So unless, again, but politics, couple weeks is a long time. There you go. We'll end with those words tonight and thank you for joining us for this wonderful half hour.


Hello and welcome to the NPTEL course on an introduction to programming through C++. I am Abhiram Ranade and today's lecture is also about arrays and the reading for it is from chapter 15 of the text. So here is an outline. So the first topic that we are going to look at is how to represent textual data. Then we will talk about two dimensional arrays and in this one of the examples will be how to create polygons in simple Cpp. And then we will talk about accepting command line arguments. Textual data we have already talked about a little bit. So we said that the care type was specially meant for storing single letters. Now obviously the natural step would be to use an array of care to store sequences of letters. So for example you could use an array of care to store words, sentences, paragraphs, maybe a character string like India, maybe a character string like C++ is nice with spaces inside it and the textual data representation that I am going to talk about today is derived from the C language. C++ has nicer representations and we will learn about them a little bit later. But whatever we learn today will also be useful even in that nicer representation. So character arrays we already know, well we know arrays and therefore character arrays are not really different. So as always we define an array by giving the type name, the name of the array and then in square brackets the size. So here I am defining two character arrays, one array called name of length 10 and another array called address of length 50 and both have the type care. So such arrays can be used to store character sequences or character strings as they are more often called. And you may, you often use an array of a larger length to store strings of smaller length. That is because often you do not know how long the string is that is you want to store say in the name, in the array name because you may not always calculate what is the exact name of this person before storing the name of the person into the array. You may just allocate a large enough array for storing say the name of a person. Now the arrays are, character arrays are really not any different from other arrays but there is a difference in the way they get used especially there is a protocol for storing character strings that is inherited from the C language and here is what the protocol is. So if you want to store a character string into an array you store the string in the array starting from element 0. After all the characters in your character string are stored in the array you also store the character whose ASCII representation is 0 often written as quote backslash 0 quote. This character is often also called the null character. So what you store actually is the string that you want to store followed by this null character. So the null character sort of signals that look the portion of interest has ended and indeed the way everything happens with character arrays is not using the defined length of the array but rather the idea that only everything until the null is a part of the actual string and what comes later is supposed to be ignored. So in fact you will see that when you are processing character strings stored in character arrays you do not really talk about the length because the length is never specified explicitly. So you just process until you find the null character. Now you can create character arrays with initialization. So for example you might write char and 1, 20 so you are allocating an array of length 20 and in which you are storing agenta and you are allocating an array n2 without giving the size in which you are storing allora. These definitions are analogous to the definitions that you have seen say for defining arrays of integers. The initialization form for character strings is slightly different. You do not need to enclose individual characters in braces but you can just put up character strings. Okay, so how does this work? So n1 will be created with length 20 and it will be initialized as follows. So capital A will be put in n10, j will be put in n21, n11. The next A will be put in n12 and so on. So a, j, a and ta will be stored in array elements n10 through n15 but that is not all. In n16 the null character will be stored. So this is this as I said this is just according to the protocol that we talked about earlier and the elements n17 through n19 the remaining elements of this array agenta will not be initialized and it is expected in fact that if you are going to process this array these elements will not be looked at. So only the elements until the null character will be looked at. N2 will be created of length 1 plus the length of the string allora. The length of the string allora is ELLORA6 plus 1 so 7 the size of n2 will be 7 and it will also be initialized to the string allora followed by the null character.  So this will be index 0, this will be index 19 and then in n1 we will store a, j, a, n, t, a and then this null character. So this is 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and in 6 the null character will be stored. N2 because the length of N2 is not given N2 will be created so that it uses the minimum length. And so what will it look like? It will look like ELLORA and then the null character. So this requires 7 characters and in fact exactly 7 elements will be allocated. So element 0 through element 6 and I should point out that the syntax n120 equal to agenda looks like an assignment but that is not true. You cannot use this as an assignment, you can only use it as an initialization. You can assign individual elements of the array. So you could write n1 of 0 equal to quote A quote, n1 of 1 equal to quote j quote and so on but assignments will be one element at a time and there is this feature of assigning a lot of elements simultaneously is reserved only for initialization. So we have declared arrays and maybe we initialize them but we surely want to read data into arrays. So this is the first way in which we are going to be able to read data. So for example we have a character array buffer of length 80, suppose it has been defined as shown here. The first way to read into it is to use C in greater than greater than our standard mechanism and this for the purposes of reading into character arrays works in the following manner. So it reads one word and what is a word? Well it is anything which is terminated by white space. White space is a space character or a new line character, tap character. Any of these appears then the word will be considered to have ended. So whatever that one word was typed in by the user will be taken and will be stored into this array buffer from the beginning and it will be terminated by a null character. So suppose we use our types C++ is nice. So there is C++ space is space nice and after that nice say there is a new line. If you remember you have to hit a new line before the computer actually starts looking at what you typed. So say here you hit a new line. So what happens in this case? So in this case as we have said one word is read. So the first word is C++. So that C++ is read. So three characters are read and they are stored into buffer 0, buffer 1, buffer 2 and following them the null character is stored. Now Cn greater than greater than buffer does not mention the length of the buffer because if you remember the name of the array is only the starting address. So this is needed of course. You need to know where to start putting in the data that you are just reading. But there is also a problem here. So if the user types more than 80 characters then this will cause an index out of range. C++ will attempt to store whatever you typed into say index 80, 81, how many ever characters you need and that will cause an error. So what should you do? So we will have a more safer way to read, we will show that in a minute. But the standard idea is to just allocate a large enough array or the simple idea I should say. So quite possibly if you want to write a really good program you should probably not be doing this. This is sort of a quick. This is a way to write a quick trusting program. I should also mention that the command Cn greater than greater than buffer works only for character arrays. In fact buffer is a constant. So normally Cn greater than greater than is supposed to have a variable after it. So normally if you type in a symbol that symbol had better be a variable. But for character arrays there is a special case made by C++ so that it is interpreted as put whatever is read into this array starting from the 0th character. So if it is not a 0th character, if it is not a character array however then C++ does not allow you to read things in this manner. So that will actually cause an error. Say buffer is an integer array then you write Cn buffer would cause an error. Now here is a different way to read into character arrays. So again we have our same definition char buffer 80. The safe way to read into it is this. We say Cn dot get line buffer and 80. Here you can notice that we are specifying the length. So C++ will actually make sure that the reading does not happen beyond the array boundary. So this will read a line and this time it is not terminated by white space but it is terminated by a new line. And if the line is very long then C++ will only pick up the first 79 characters. So whatever is picked up will be placed in buffer and it will be followed by the null character. So this is safe because you do not attempt to write beyond the end of your allocated region. And another difference between this and what we had earlier is that the line that you read may contain spaces. So if you want to get in spaces into what you are reading this is the way to do it. As an example if the user types C++ is nice as before and again after nice there is a new line so a computer starts processing it. This time that entire text would go into the buffer followed by the null character. Printing char arrays is simple. So if you have a char array again the same char array then say you somehow put data into it. We have seen one way of putting data which is to read into it but there could be other ways which we will see soon. And I should just point out that the way you put data into the elements of any array is the same. So I can put data, I can make assignments to char buffer 0, to buffer 0, buffer 1 just like I make assignments to the elements of an any array. So suppose you have assigned some value into buffer and you have done it in the right way which is that the string that you have stored has a terminating null character. So if that happens and then you can write c out less than buffer. So this would push the content of buffer onto the screen. And how much content? Well everything until the null character. So for example earlier we initialized n1 to be agenta and n2 to be allora. So if you write c out less than less than n1 then agenta will be printed because as it is said over here everything until the null character is to be printed. And for this it is important that your buffer actually contain the null character. If it does not contain the null character then c++ will just go on printing whatever there is after that address. Again in a sense this is an unsafe, slightly unsafe mechanism but it is not that unsafe because it is in your hands as a programmer to make sure that it contains the null character. The length of the array is not important because only everything until the null character is going to be printed. And I should also point out that if buffer is an array of a different kind then what would get printed would be the address of that array because as you may remember in general the name of an array stands for the address, the starting address of that array. So here when I say c out, so this is something special intended for care arrays. Now how do you process character arrays? So we are going to do a few examples of this. And the general principle however is that the array length is ignored and instead we process all the elements till we find the null. And it is expected that the array will contain a null if you are going to do this kind of a processing. And this is the most common idiom that we do not really keep track of the array length but we process everything until the null character. So let us write a very simple program. So this program is going to read in a name from the keyboard and we are going to count the number of letters in the name. So here is a program. So what does it do? Well first it defines this array name of length 80 to store whatever you are going to read. Then it prints out a message saying please type your name. Well for short it is just saying name. And then I could have used the safe variant but just for simplicity and compactness I am using the unsafe variant and this variant will read the first word. So whatever you type delimited by the null by a white space will go into name. And then the next line is just going to print that out. So it is going to first print the message you typed whatever and then whatever you type the first word from it will get printed. The first word will be taken, only the first word will be taken into name and only that will be printed. After that we are going to search through the name array. This search is sort of similar to what you have in other arrays but it is different in the sense that you are not going to go, you are going to start at 0 but you are not going to go till the end. You are going to go only until you find a null and this is the body of the vile and in the body you are only going to increment L. So as a result after this entire code executes L will be the index of the null character or since our counting starts at 0 L will be precisely the length of the name. So that is what got printed over here in the last bit. So here is a quick exercise for you, write a program that reads a word and prints it, prints its reverse. So just to clarify what you are expected to do, you first find the length of the word using what we just saw and then examine the characters in the word from the last character coming back. So again now this is not, the second part is sort of standard array stuff. It does not use this convention about the null character or anything like that but anyway, so the first part does and so do write this program. So what have we discussed so far? So we said the text is stored in an array of care, the length of this text is not explicitly stored and this is not a rule as such, it is just a convention but it is a very, very stringently followed convention. Here the last real character, a null character or the ASCII character with value 0 is stored. Again this is also a part of the convention and sometimes it is this last null character is called the sentinel, sentinel means guard so it is sort of guarding the actual text that you have stored and it is standing at the end and guarding its sort of. So next we are going to look at functions that operate on character strings and also something called character string constants. So we will take a break.


Most of us are familiar with the image of a jury delivering a verdict. We've seen it on TV shows and learned about juries and civics lessons. In the next few days, you may be delivering a verdict in the United States District Court. Serving as a juror is one of the most important responsibilities you have as a citizen of this country. That's why we'd like to take a few minutes to tell you about your role as a juror, to give you a general idea of what to expect. Along the way, we'll hear from some people who have already served and give you some dos and don'ts about being a juror. Should you be selected to serve on a jury, the judge in the case will tell you more specifically what you can and cannot do. This program is being shown in courts nationwide, so we can't tell you about all of the administrative details which may vary from court to court, such as how long you'll serve or where to eat. But someone from the court you're in will. Be sure to ask if you have any questions. You have been called to serve. The court will do its best to make sure you're as comfortable as possible and to make the best possible use of your time. Everybody had a different opinion about what they thought really happened. They were entitled to their opinion, but it was difficult. I didn't think I'd get so drawn into the case. Sure, there were boring moments, but overall, I found it very interesting. Well, one of the things I really liked about serving on a jury was the way I was able to find out what others were thinking and to have them listen to my ideas. The people went back and forth, back and forth. It took a while, but I think we made the right decision. You may have yet a different reaction to your service. The different values and perspectives that jurors bring to the courthouse are a strength, not a weakness. The right to a trial by jury is guaranteed by our legal system. Article 3 of the U.S. Constitution says that the trial of all crimes shall be by jury. The Constitution's 7th Amendment guarantees juries in most civil cases. Juries serve as a protection against the power of government. People charged with a crime or involved in a dispute over an injury or a business deal get the benefit of the judgments of the entire community, not just of government officials. Without people like you, these constitutional guarantees could not be met. Of course, the jury system is not without its critics. The proper role of the jury has been debated for a long time, and will probably be debated for years to come. But your duty as a juror, if selected, is clear. Think about how you would want the jurors to act if you were involved in a lawsuit. I was nervous when my name was called. I hadn't been selected for a trial yet, but I kept thinking, I'm a librarian, well, a retired librarian, not a lawyer. If I'm chosen for a case with lots of technical evidence. Some cases are complicated. But remember, if you're selected for a jury, everything you need to know, you will see, hear, or read about in here. All you need to bring with you to the courtroom is your common sense. Every day you make judgments about people and situations and information you're given. This is what you'll need to do as a juror. Your everyday common sense, combined with what you learn in the courtroom, will help you reach an impartial decision based on the evidence and the law. That is what a juror's job is all about. What about all this sitting around? Some days it seemed like that was all we did. I'm not used to that. Delays can happen for a number of reasons. When you're first called for jury duty, it can take a whole morning to assign prospective jurors to all the new trials starting that day and to get groups of jurors up to their courtroom. And even if you've been selected for a jury, your trial can be interrupted. For example, the lawyers could raise a complicated legal question that the judge needs to resolve before the trial continues. If it looks like it will take a long time, or if it's a sensitive matter, the judge may send you to the jury room rather than have you wait in the courtroom. Or a judge may need to hold a hearing on a matter totally unrelated to the case you're hearing. Judges juggle many cases at once and often must take time to attend to other matters. But remember that the judges will do their best to keep from wasting your time. Right now you're probably in a jury lounge or waiting room. When a jury is needed, you and other prospective jurors will be taken to a courtroom to answer some questions. The group of you that's taken is called a panel. The questioning is called voir dire. Voir dire is a legal term that means to speak the truth, which you're obligated to do. Voir dire's purpose is to ensure that the jury is made up of impartial jurors capable of deciding the case based only on the evidence. In some courts, judges conduct the voir dire. In others, attorneys ask the questions. And in others, both the judge and the attorneys may ask questions. I spent the whole day waiting in the juror lounge, and I never even got called to a courtroom. The clerk, I don't know what you call her, whoever it is, it helps jurors get settled, she thanked us several times. Not everyone summoned by the court will serve as a juror. Sometimes people don't even make it to voir dire.  Trials are expensive and risky for the parties involved. Knowing a jury is ready to try the case often helps convince parties to settle at the last minute. And the courts always have to call a few more people than they'll need. This is to be safe. The alternative is to call fewer people and risk having to delay the trial if there are not enough potential jurors. I was disappointed. The judge asked me a question. I can't even remember what it was now. It didn't seem like that big a deal. But when I answered it, the attorneys jumped up, said something to the judge. Next thing I knew, I was out of the jury box. Yes. During voir dire, you may be asked about your occupation, if you've heard or read about the case, and if you know any of the parties, witnesses, or attorneys. Usually questions are asked of the entire panel, then individual panel members stand or raise their hands if their answer to a question is yes. You may wonder about some of the questions. They may seem quite personal. But the parties have a right to know some things about the people who will decide their case. If you feel something is private or embarrassing, you can ask to talk to the judge at the bench. The judge and lawyers will listen carefully to the answers you give during voir dire. If a lawyer thinks there's a specific reason you may not be able to decide the case impartially, the lawyer may challenge you for cause. For cause means asking the judge to excuse you from serving in the case for a specific reason. If the judge agrees with the lawyer, the judge will excuse you from the panel. This means you can't sit on that case, though you may be sent back to the jury room for possible selection in another case. I sat on a case involving fraud, real estate fraud. I was surprised I was allowed to serve. I told the judge that I'd had bad experiences with real estate agents, but then I thought I could decide the case fairly. As this juror suggests, merely having read or heard something about the case will not automatically disqualify you from serving, nor will past experiences. What's important is that you've not made up your mind about the case and can decide it impartially. There's no limit on the number of jurors that can be excused for cause, but there are limits on the number of peremptory challenges. With peremptory challenges, lawyers don't have to give a reason to the judge. Lawyers may make peremptory challenges because they have a hunch or gut feeling that a prospective juror may respond favorably to their case. The challenge may be based on information lawyers learn in voir dire, but can't be based on race or gender. Well, it was kind of strange when the lawyers were choosing people for the jury. They kind of looked at you, then looked at their notes. It was hard to figure why they asked certain people to leave and not others. It is hard to figure out why certain people are excused, but the lawyers have their own reasons for making challenges based on what they know about their case. If you're excused, don't take it personally. It's a normal part of the process. Let's say the lawyers have exercised their challenges and other preliminary matters have been taken care of, and you find yourself sitting on a jury. What happens next? I was surprised at how different things looked from the jury box. The witnesses were so close to my seat, and so were the judge and the lawyers and everyone else. Things do look different from the jury box. Let's take a look. A trial begins as soon as the jury is sworn in. The lawyers make opening statements. Opening statements are the lawyer's overview of what the case is about and what they think the evidence will be. Opening statements are not evidence. That is, they do not prove anything. After opening statements, the lawyers for each side present their evidence. This generally takes up the biggest part of the trial. Evidence is information presented to you by witnesses under oath. It can be testimony, or it can be exhibits that witnesses swear are genuine, such as documents, photographs, diagrams, and other physical objects. The trial system is based on the idea that each side will present the strongest evidence it can from persons sworn to tell only their personal knowledge, and that this will lead to the truth. Each side has the opportunity to ask the other side's witnesses questions. This is called cross-examination. Of course, the lawyers can't just present any evidence they want. There are rules that control what evidence the jury can hear and see, and what evidence it can't. Lawyers will make objections to evidence they believe improper, and the judge will decide whether the jury can consider it. The judge presides over the courtroom, controls the proceedings, and decides all questions of law. If anything you hear or see conflicts with what the judge says, you can follow the judge's instructions. This includes anything the attorney say, anything you might see in this program, or something a fellow juror might tell you. During the trial, you may notice people other than the judge, the lawyers, and the parties in the courtroom. The court clerk calls the court to order, swears in witnesses, and handles exhibits. A court reporter takes down a record of everything that's said so a transcript can be made. To pay attention, the transcript might not be provided to the jury. In some cases, there may be a bailiff or other court security officer. At times during the trial, the judge and the attorneys may have a bench conference. Bench conferences are discussions that people in the courtroom can't hear. They're commonly called to discuss whether an attorney can present a particular piece of evidence. It may bother you that you're excluded from the discussion. But bench conferences help ensure that you only hear evidence that the judge has decided is proper, given the case and the laws that apply to it. Bench conferences are also referred to as sidebars. After the evidence is presented, attorneys make closing arguments. The attorneys sum up the evidence and give the jury what they think are the reasons their side is entitled to a verdict from the jury. Just like opening statements, closing arguments are not evidence. After closing arguments, the judge talked to us for a while. Then we were taken to the jury room to deliberate. That was a funny feeling. I mean, we had spent so much time in the courtroom, then all of a sudden, there we were, trying to figure out what we thought happened. The judges talk that the juror refers to are jury instructions or the jury charge. In jury instructions, the judge explains the law that you and other jurors must follow in the particular case. If you have questions about the instructions while you're deliberating, you may send the judge a note. But basically, once the door to the jury room closes, the public part of the trial is over. It's up to you and the other jurors in private to try and reach a verdict. At one point in deliberations, we really got stuck. Several people didn't think that one witness was telling the truth. But then again, several of us did. This is the kind of question you'll have to decide if selected as a juror. Is a witness telling the truth? Did the events happen as the witness said? Should you believe evidence that contradicts the witness's testimony? To make sure the verdict will be fair, there are some things you can't do as soon as you're called for voir dire until the trial is over and the judge excuses you. First, you must not mingle or talk with anyone associated with the case, including the lawyers, the parties, and the witnesses. They're not allowed to talk with you, either, so don't feel offended by the lack of even casual greetings. You also cannot discuss the case with other jurors until the judge has instructed you to do so and you are inside the jury deliberation room. This one was difficult. It was hard during the trial to go to lunch with people who were sitting next to me in the jury box and not talk about the case, especially at first. It was the only thing we had in common. After a while, though, it got easier. I began to learn about their jobs and families and things like that. In addition to people inside the courthouse, you must not discuss the case with anyone outside the courthouse. This includes family members and friends. If a person persists, remind them that you are a juror and exclude yourself from the conversation. If you believe someone is making a deliberate attempt to influence you, notify the judge or clerk of court immediately. It was hard coming home and not telling my wife what happened. I'm not a talkative person or anything, but I usually tell my wife about things that go on during the day. Following some of these guidelines will take extra effort, both inside and outside the courthouse. Remember not to read or listen to news accounts of the case and not to conduct your own investigation. I was surprised at this one. I knew I couldn't go to crime scenes or anything like that, but well, it's second nature for me to look things up in books. This is an important point. Don't look for any information that you think might help you decide the case. This includes not visiting crime scenes or accident sites, picking up information in law books, scientific journals or encyclopedias, and not calling a friend who might be an expert about an issue in the case. And one more thing. Don't accept favors from anyone connected with the case, no matter how small or insignificant they seem. Your impartiality as a juror is crucial for a fair and just trial. Following these guidelines will help you carry out your main responsibility as a juror using your everyday common sense to reach an impartial decision based only on the evidence presented in court. Remember, the process of reaching a verdict requires listening carefully and keeping an open mind. We hope that you'll find your experience as a juror rewarding. You will be performing one of the most important responsibilities you have as a citizen of this country. Thanks to the jury system, every citizen can play an important role in the administration of justice in our courts. That system guarantees that we, each of us, will be judged by our peers. This is your opportunity to help make that system work.


Except Spencer Spencer doesn't like him Whoa, it's like she's junior over here rookie Anthony Volpe one of ten RPA Yankees Youth movement plus a goldspin in the case so far awesome hit Yankees


The Cube's live coverage is made possible by funding from Dell Technologies, creating technologies that drive human progress. Welcome back to Barcelona, everybody watching The Cube's coverage of MWC23. My name is Dave Vellante. Just left a meeting with the CEO of Cisco, Chuck Robbins, to meet with G2 Patel, who's our executive vice president and general manager of security and collaboration at Cisco. You never leave a meeting with Chuck Robbins to meet with G2 Patel. That's about it. I said, hey, I got an interview to do, right? So, and I'm excited about this. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.  I mean, obviously the collaboration business, but also security. So many changes going on in the security market. Maybe we could start there.  It was 45 minutes into the keynote yesterday before anybody even mentioned security. Oh, right. So, but it's the most important topic in the enterprise IT world. And obviously it's important here. So why is it you think that it's not the first topic that people mentioned? You know, it's a complicated subject area and it's intimidating. And actually that's one of the things that the industry screwed up on. Where we need to simplify security so it actually gets to be relatable for every person on the planet. But if you think about what's happening in security, it's not just important for business. It's critical infrastructure that if you had a breach, you know, lives are cost now because hospitals could go down, your water supply could go down, your electricity could go down. And so it's one of these things that we have to take pretty seriously. And it's 51% of all breaches happen because of negligence, not because of malicious intent. It's that low. Interesting. Someone else told me the same thing. You thought it'd be higher. I always say bad user behavior is going to trump good security every time. Every single time. You can't beat it. But you know, it's funny. Every single time. Earlier part of last decade, you could see that security was becoming a board level issue. It was on the agenda every quarter. And I remember doing some research at the time. And I asked, I was interviewing Robert Gates, former Defense Secretary. And I asked him, yeah, but you know, we're getting attacked, but don't we have the best offense? Can't we have the best technology? He said, yeah, but we have so much critical infrastructure, the risks to the United States are higher. So we have to be careful about how we use security as an offensive weapon. You know, and now you're seeing the future of war involves security and what's going on in Ukraine. It's a whole different ball game. It is, and the scales always tip towards the adversary, not towards the defender, because you have to be right every single time. They have to be right once. Yeah, and to the other point about bad user behavior, it's going now beyond the board level to it's everybody's responsibility. That's right. And everybody's sort of aware of it. Everybody's been hacked. And that's where it being such a complicated topic is problematic. It is, and it's actually what got us this far will not get us to where we need to get to if we don't simplify security radically. You know, the experience has to be almost invisible. And what used to be the case was sophistication had to get to a certain level for efficacy to go up. But now that sophistication has turned to complexity. And there's an inverse relationship between complexity and efficacy. So the simpler you make security, the more effective it gets. And so I'll give you an example. We have this great kind of innovation we've done around passwordless, right? Everyone hates passwords. You shouldn't have passwords in 2023. But when you get to passwordless security, not only do you reduce a whole lot of friction for the user, you actually make the system safer. And that's what you need to do is you have to make it simpler while making it more effective. And I think that's where the future is going to hold. Yeah, and CISOs tell me that they're, you know, zero trust before the pandemic was like, yeah, yeah, zero trust. And now it's like a mandate. Every CISO you talk to says, yes, we're implementing a zero trust architecture. And a big part of that is that if they can confirm zero trust, they can get to market a lot faster with revenue generating or, you know, critical projects. And many projects as we know are being pushed back, you know, because of the macro, but projects that drive revenue and value, they want to accelerate in a zero trust confirmation allows people to, you know, rubber stamp it and go faster. And the whole concept of zero trust is least privileged access, right? But what we want to make sure that we get to is continuous assessment of least privileged access, not just a one time at logger. This thing's changed. So for example, if you happen to be someone that's logged into the system and now you start doing some anomalous behavior that doesn't sound like Dave, we want to be able to intercept, not just do it at the time that you're authenticating Dave to come in. So you guys got a good business. I mentioned the macro before. The big theme is consolidating redundant vendors. So a company with a portfolio like Cisco's obviously has an advantage there.  Palo Alto is another company that can consolidate. Tom Gillis, great pickup.  Just sat in a little webinar session with him where he was peeking out with the analysts. So learned a lot there. Now you guys have some news at the event with Mercedes. Take us through that and I want to get your take on hybrid work and what's happening there. But what's going on with Mercedes? Yes, look, it all actually stems from the hybrid work story, which is the future is going to be hybrid. People are going to work in mixed mode. Sometimes you'll be in the office, sometimes at home, sometimes somewhere in the middle. One of the places that people are working more and more from is their cars. And connected cars are going to be a reality. And in fact, cars sometimes become an extension of your home office. And many a times I found myself in a parking lot because I didn't have enough time to get home and I was in a parking lot taking a conference call. And so we've made that section easier because we have now partnered with Mercedes and they aren't the first partner, but they're a very important partner where we are going to have WebEx available through the connected car natively in Mercedes. Ah, okay, so I could take a call. I can do it all the time. I find good service, pull over, got to take the meeting. I don't want to be driving, I got to concentrate. That's right. Or sometimes I'll have the picture on and it's not good. That's right. Okay, so it'll be through the console. It'll be through the console and many people ask me like how's safety going to work over there because you don't want to do video calls while you're driving. Exactly right.  Now, of course, the whole hybrid work trend, you know, seems like a long time ago, but it doesn't, you know, and it's really changed the security dynamic as well, didn't it?  And those changes, I felt at the time were permanent and I think it's still the case, but there's an equilibrium now happening. People, as they come back to office here, number of companies are mandating back to work. Maybe the central offices or the headquarters were underfunded. So what's going on out there in terms of that balance? Well, firstly, there's no unanimous consensus in the way that the future is going to be except that it's going to be hybrid. And the reason I say that is some companies mandate two days a week, some companies mandate five days a week, some companies don't mandate at all, some companies are completely remote, but whatever way you go, you want to make sure that regardless of where you're working from, people can have an inclusive experience, you know, and when they have that experience, you want to be able to work from a managed device or an unmanaged device, from a corporate network or from a Starbucks, from on the road or stationary and whenever you do any of those things, we want to make sure that security is always handled and you don't have to worry about that. And so the way that we say it is the company that created the VPN, which is Cisco, is the one that's going to kill it because what we'll do is we'll make it simple enough so that you as a user never have to worry about what connection you're going to use to dial into what app. You will have one seamless way to dial into any application, public application, private application, or directly to the internet. I'm going to love hate with my VPN, it's protecting me, but you know, it's in the way a lot. It's going to be simple as ever. You have kids? I do have a 12 year old daughter. Okay, so not quite high school age yet. She will be shortly. No, but she's already, I'm not looking forward to high school days because she has a very, very strong sense of debate and she wins 90% of the arguments. So when my kids were that age, I got four kids, but the local high school banned Wikipedia. They can't use Wikipedia for research. Many colleges, I presume high schools as well, they're banning chat GPT, can't use it. Now at the same time, I saw recently on Medium, a Wharton school professor said he's mandating GPT, chat GPT to teach his students how to prompt in progressively more sophisticated prompts because the future is interacting with machines. You know, they say in five years we're all going to be interacting in some way, shape, or form with AI, maybe we already are. What's the intersection between AI and security? So a couple very, very consequential things. So firstly on chat GPT, the next generation skill is going to be to learn how to go out and have the right questions to ask, which is the prompt revolution that we see going on right now. But if you think about what's happening in security and there's a few areas which are, firstly, 3,500 vendors in the space, on average, most companies have 50 to 70 vendors in security, not a single vendor owns more than 10% of the market, you take out a couple of vendors, no one owns more than 5%, highly fractured market. That's a problem because it's untenable for companies to go out and manage 70 policy engines and going out and making sure that there's no contention. So as you move forward, one of the things that chat GPT will be really good for is it's fundamentally going to change user experiences for how software gets built. Because rather than it being point and click, it's going to be, I'm going to provide an instruction and it's going to tell me what to do in natural language. Imagine Dave, when you joined a company, if someone said, hey, give Dave all the permissions that he needs as a direct report to Chuck. And instantly you would get all of the permissions and it would actually show up in a screen that says, do you approve? And if you hit approve, you're done. The interfaces of the future will get more natural, will get more natural language kind of dominated. The other area that you'll see is the sophistication of attacks and the surface area of attacks is increasing quite exponentially. And we no longer can handle this with human scale. You have to handle it in machine scale. So detecting breaches, making sure that you can effectively and quickly respond in real time to the breaches and remediate those breaches is all going to happen through AI and machine learning. So I agree, I mean, just like Amazon turned the data center into an API, I think we're now going to be interfacing with technology through human language. I mean, I think it's a really interesting point you're making. Now, from a security standpoint as well, I mean, the state of the art today in my email is be careful, this person's outside your organization. I'm like, yeah, I know. So it's a good warning sign, but it's really not automated in any way. So two part question, one is can AI help with the phishing? Obviously it can, but the bad guys have AI too and they're probably going to be smarter than I am about using it. Yeah, by the way, Talos is our kind of thread detection and response kind of engine. And they had a great kind of piece that came out recently where they talked about this where there is going to be more sophistication of the folks that are the bad actors, the adversaries in using chat GPT to have more sophisticated phishing attacks. But today it's not something that is fundamentally something that we can't handle just yet. You still need to do the basic hygiene that's more important. Over time, what you will see is attacks will get more bespoke and in order they'll get more sophisticated and you will need to have better mechanisms to know that this was actually not a human being writing that to you, but it was actually a machine pretending to be a human being writing something to you and that you'll have to be more clever about it. Oh, interesting. And so you will see attacks get more bespoke and we'll have to get smarter and smarter about it. The other thing I wanted to ask you before we close is you're right on. I mean you take the top security vendors and they got a single digit market share and it's like it's untenable for organizations just far too many tools. We have a partner at ETR, they do quarterly survey research and one of the things they do is survey emerging technology companies and when we look at in the security sector, just the number of emerging technology companies that are focused on cybersecurity is as many as they're out there already. And so there's got to be consolidation. Maybe that's through M&A. I mean what do you think happens? Are companies going to go out of business? There's going to be a lot of M&A. You've seen a lot of companies go private.  How do you see the landscape? You guys are obviously a acquisitive company. What do you thought about it? I think there'll be a little bit of everything but the biggest change that you'll see is a shift that's going to happen with an integrated platform rather than point solution vendors. So what's going to happen is the market's going to consolidate towards very few, less than a half a dozen integrated platforms. We believe Cisco is going to be one. Microsoft will be one. There'll be others over there. But this platform will essentially be able to provide a unified kind of policy engine across a multitude of different services to protect multiple different entities within the organization. And what we've found is that platform will also be something that'll provide through APIs the ability for third parties to be able to get their technology incorporated in and their telemetry ingested. So we certainly intend to do that. We don't believe, we're not arrogant enough to think that every single new innovation will be built by us. When there's someone else who has built that, we want to make sure that we can ingest that telemetry as well because the real enemy is not the competitor. The real enemy is the adversary and we all have to get together so that we can keep humanity safe. Do you think there's been enough collaboration in the industry? Not nearly enough. We've seen companies, security companies try to monetize private data before instead of maybe sharing it with competitors. And so I think the industry can do better there. I think the industry can do better. And we have this concept called the security poverty line. And the security poverty line is the companies that fall below the security poverty line don't have either the influence or the resources or the know-how to keep themselves safe. And when they go unsafe, everyone else that communicates with them also gets an exposure. So it is in our collective interest for all of us to make sure that we come together. And even if Palo Alto might be a competitor of ours, we want to make sure that we invite them to say, let's make sure that we can actually exchange telemetry between our companies. And we'll continue to do that with as many companies that are out there because that's better for the market, that's better for the world. The enemy of the enemy is my friend, the kind of thing. Now, as it relates to, because you're right, I mean, I see companies coming out. Oh, we do IoT security. I'm like, okay, but what about cloud security? Do you do that too? Oh no, that's somebody else. So that's another stovepipe. That's a huge, huge advantage of coming with someone like Cisco because we actually have the entire spectrum and the broadest portfolio in the industry of anyone else, from the user to the device to the network, to the applications, we provide the entire end-to-end story for security, which then has the least amount of cracks that you can actually go out and penetrate through. The biggest challenges that happen in securities, you've got way too many policy engines, with way too much contention between the policies from these different systems, and eventually there's a collision course. Whereas with us, you've actually got a broad portfolio that operates as one platform. We were talking about the cloud guys earlier. You mentioned Microsoft, they're obviously a big competitor in the security space. They're also a great partner. So that's why, to my opinion, the cloud has been awesome. It's like a first line of defense, if you will, but the shared responsibility model is different for each cloud, right? So do you feel that those guys are working together or will work together to actually improve? Because I don't see that yet. Yeah, so if you think about, this is where we feel like we have a structural advantage in this, because what does a company like Cisco become in the future? I think as the world goes multi-cloud and hybrid cloud, what'll end up happening is there needs to be, today all the CSPs provide everything from storage to compute to network to security in their own stack. If we can abstract networking and security above them so that we can acquire and steer any and all traffic with our service providers and steer it to any of those CSPs and make sure that the security policy transcends those clouds, you would actually be able to have the public cloud economics without the public cloud lock-in. That's what we call super cloud G2. It's securing the super cloud. Hey, thanks so much for coming. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate you coming to our editorial program. Such a pleasure. All right, great to see you again. Cheers. All right, keep it right there. Dave Vellante with David Nicholson and Lisa Martin will be back right after this short break from MWC23 live in the Fiat in Barcelona.


It's really been a great event. I came here last year, didn't speak, came and participated. You know, it's always tough to follow Mr. Kidd because he's a lot smarter than I am, but I do know I look a lot better this way. So no, it's a pleasure. We actually work with services, I think, very closely together on, you know, what we're doing in the way of energy efficiency and renewable. So I'm going to talk a little bit about, you know, renewables and alternative fuels, but, you know, what I've got to say is, we do have a pretty aggressive program on efficiency as well for effective things. You know, on the shore side, we're trying to drive consumption down, say it's cost makes it easier to, you know, when we try to work on those resiliency outputs and integrate renewable power. And on the operational side, you know, we consume a lot of fuel, you know, maybe operates forward, where it matters, when it matters, and we've got to drag that fuel with us wherever we operate. So any time we can reduce the amount of fuel we consume, you know, that's obviously a good thing because that gives us more combat capability that kind of gives to what Mr. Kagan was talking about. And so, to us, the energy program is really not about being green, even though I have the environmental title in my job as well. You know, to me, our effort is really focused on capability, resiliency, flexibility, and giving the name and choices of what we do in the future. So on the operational side, the big focus is, you know, alternative fuels.  But to me, it's absolutely the right thing to do. You know, if you look at the amount of fuel we have to transport and where we have to move it, and frankly, where we get it from, you know, some of those places don't necessarily like us. So anything we can do to, you know, decrease the amount of controlling products, you know, add to some price table ability by maybe having some domestically produced or some other country produced alternative fuels. To me, that's a good thing. And so our program is largely focused on testing and qualifying, you know, those petroleum products that, you know, the alternative world is made in manufacturing. And for the first time, we've actually changed some of our military specs for some of the fuel we use, ships and airplanes, our two biggest assets, that allows for two different pathways of biofuel production. So the Defense Logistics Agency has the first contracts on the street, you know, that could offer us bulk biofuel. And it's got to be dropping before I'm going to change or end this, and so on. We also do a lot of, you know, interoperability with our partner names. So, you know, that rural Australian ship or that, you know, English ship, they may take fuel from one of our oilers at sea. So we're working with those other partner nations, too, to try to, you know, get down where our alternative fuel program, and we have some statements of cooperation with some other countries where we're sharing data and information out there. So big under the operational side for us, obviously, is the alternative fuel biofuels program. On the short side, you know, I'd say our focus is very much like the Army. You know, we tend to operate maybe nicer places in the Army. You know, we have to agree coastal locations and, you know, tend to have more of a connection to a large city or a metropolis area someplace. But what we need is, we need something other than just power off your grid. You know, we need some flexibilities so that when the grid does have a flip, a spike or whatever, you know, we got to have resiliency. It used to be our bases were, hey, the ships would sail, the ships would, you know, submerge, airplanes would fly away. And the base was the place for the family stage.  So the criticality of those electrical systems and reliable clean power, you know, to support our data centers and some of those other key facilities, you know, has really made us look hard at what do we need to do? So we assess all the buildings. What's the critical infrastructure? How do we protect it? How do we make it more resilient?  We've got one gigawatt effort going on. You know, the Navy has recently stood up a renewable energy program office whose sole purpose is to focus on, you know, finding opportunities and structure in those contract deals so that we can give one gigawatt a renewable energy goal is to have those deals at least affected by the end of next year, so that's pretty aggressive. I think it's safe to say that, you know, hey, the Navy's all in on energy. You know, whether it's liquid petroleum products, whether it's efficiency or whether it's, you know, renewable energy, they all got a role in our portfolio because we're a pretty energy intense organization.  So thank you.