Bingo surprise it doesn't look like Carl Campania, and it isn't but I like him and I like his mind So that's why I'm stepping in as host and Carl is stepping in as guest. Hi Carl. How are you? Thank you. Thank you, Jay Thank you. Appreciate it. We're gonna have a good time. Yes, we're gonna go fast though first How's your election your campaign doing? Thank you for asking. It's going very well actually from what I can tell I've knocked on over 8,000 doors since January I have been doing everything possible. I've been sign waving six or seven different places almost every day for the past three months and The feedback that I've gotten is very positive very positive. What have you learned? I've learned that the most fun part of campaigning is reaching out to the people hearing their thoughts hearing their stories and being able to incorporate them into a policy agenda I mean to go with that far to bring them in to bring them in and have them be engaged and how much the people really want To be engaged if you ask them, you know, there's a great PBS show Documentary on Sunday. I think it was involving JFK Okay, and his political career and you know, he was an underdog for a long time His father's money and power really didn't help that much He had to walk the streets himself and he did even with his bad back Yeah, and one of the things that struck me is, you know, his campaign headquarters There was a sign, you know in Vulture Kennedy or something But then with two signs says volunteer here. Yeah come in volunteer join me. Yes, you know and the join me thing I think is what you're talking about. It's it's a philosophical thing more than a mechanical or a Strategical thing is, you know, we're together in this. Yeah, agreed. Agreed and and that's What I was hoping was going to happen and has happened is I was gonna go out there start knocking on doors And I was gonna let my campaign grow organically because that would be a representation of the reality And as it has gone more and more people have engaged More and more people have donated more and more people have come out to sign wave and come to events and are willing to show up in support and It's just been growing in that way in a way that is inspiring and then also gives me a greater sense of responsibility To make sure that I am doing everything I can. Yeah Well, it sounds like not all this lost in mudville You know, I say that because I am referring to education in mudville. Yes, and I consider the population in mudville On the downhill slide as far as education. Let me wax for a moment Please, you know after school and sometimes well many times people don't care about School is an anti-intellectual, you know flavor in the air in Hawaii. They don't care They don't do well.  It looks for raw meat all the time And and and they get and then they get TV which is sports weather crime and news not news Sports weather crime and sports That's what it is. You know, it's a recipe and you know, if you wonder if I'm right take a look any night any channel That's what it is. I agree So you go through your life and this is what you get and this is you know You feel fulfilled at ten ten o'clock ten thirty But the reality is you're learning nothing about the world around you and then of course the media in general You know, they have the the Donald Trump show, right? And then there'll be another show It's one show after another it blends it blends with the reality show and then the reality show It's all kind of fiction, right? So what's happening? I think is that people are they don't understand their obligation as citizens to be educated They don't care about education.  I think in my opinion, you know, that can stop the slide But you know, we got to get at the root of things. We got to get an education. That's a primary piece for you And what is your platform there because I have some ideas. I want to bounce off you I'm always open to ideas. I think that first of all as a legislator if I get to be one It's not just about my thoughts. It's about the community's thoughts. So I want to make sure that that's true But my position is on education that we need more of it. We need a higher Level of education. We need to raise the standards for education if we talk about and For ever for years and years and years Decades we hear well, we need to invest in our future invest in our future Everyone loves that from a political perspective. It's a great sound bite. We need to invest in our future Well, what does that mean to me? It means investing in our kids Because they are our future give me action The action there is okay when you go through the list of things that are needed for education We still to this day do not have all of the teachers hired for this year So we need to do something to address our teacher down by six hundred and thirty six teachers in this state. Yes That's incredible. It is incredible. Well, we let that happen. It's been ongoing. This isn't just this year It's an ongoing thing because we don't pay the teachers well enough We don't treat them like the professionals they are and we're not Recognizing their true value and importance So that's where for me education needs to be higher on the priority list to make sure that we are taking care of our practitioners So that they are taking better care of our children, you know, I'm a retired lawyer And I'm doing this and I'm consumed by this but Suppose I wanted to be a teacher. Yeah, you know, I have a graduate degrees in law, you know Yeah, and I like kids a lot and I like to engage with people, but I couldn't be a teacher at Hawaii You couldn't be technically or you couldn't be technically I couldn't walk in the door I couldn't apply for the job. You could apply to be an emergency hire, which is what they're doing right now I agree. I agree with that. I agree with that. So that's one of the problems we have and Talking about brain drain and there's two sides of brain drain with that whole thing but Part of the problem there is Yes, we're not actually assessing our teachers correctly We're we are not paying them enough so that we don't have the interest to have the higher level People who are available the higher better educated. We don't have subject matter Experts we have many cases where our arts programs have been cut So those art teachers become STEM teachers and those I Think it's great that they're keeping their job I don't want anyone to lose their job But what we need to do is reinvest so that we can make sure that we have enough teachers So that we make sure we have subject matter experts who can inspire our kids Add to that Addressing our deferred maintenance when we have classrooms that are leaking when it rains. It's a statement It is a statement that education is not important. It's low on the priority list We never have enough money for it. The only thing is you know one time I try to get into a school I try to organize a program kind of you know Bishop Street comes to you sort of thing Okay, it would have been effortless for the DOE to have people come business people come from Bishop Street and say hi Share their life stories share their lessons share whatever wisdom share themselves, you know Because kids don't really have the opportunity to see so they can develop role models on Bishop Street if they never meet them So I said, you know, I try to set it up. I organize the system. They wouldn't have any of it I said no no no we can't let strangers come into schools You got to get permission and we don't have time and the curriculum takes all our time and no child What is it? No child left behind and we just have no room for any of this and we're not going to do it never So I say to myself gee whiz is that squander? It is it's squander It is you know the community outside could help in so many ways and yet it's in an Ivy Tower of its own making Yeah, okay, and then with the bureaucracy a group of people who are deciding what's good and what's not good And whether or not they are qualified to do that is a whole other question And what they're allowed to do and how they're allowed to do it is another question when we have the no child left behind which is no longer there we now have the Every Student Succeeds Act which is Presumably better, and we're hoping it's going to be better I still couldn't get in to do my Bishop Street thing not not at the moment But that what you're saying there is a vital component of what's necessary and coming up in September I'm going to be attending one of the ESSA events Out at Moloa High School where it's the community coming together and having a conversation With the board that's been put together to create to recreate to refashion what our Educational system can be within that program one of the important pieces we need is career planning To begin as early as sixth grade. I don't know seventh grade. Let's have a discussion Let's begin career planning. Let's let's bring in people from Bishop Street. Let's bring in scientists from UH Let's bring in everyone possible to be involved in a program to show kids. Oh by the way Here's the application of what you're learning Here's the path of what you can potentially become if you're interested in this area or this area or another motivate them Exactly give them something to realize to see that there's Possibility Gordon Bruce and I one of our other hosts, you know This is back in the early days of think-tech Maybe ten years ago. We went to a program involving a sort of job fair kind of thing for high school kids Okay, and we were teaching tech, you know, we were saying it tech do tech. It's great for you It still is I mean, it's still fabulous and I would urge it on anyone. It's great. Anyway, so we're pitching tech and So Gordon decides that you know, he wants to engage with some kid in the back and he says what do you want to do? What do you want to do guys? It's all set for me. I'm gonna drive a bus. I see you can drive a bus What is this? How about tech, you know, wouldn't you rather do tech and drive a bus? Honestly, you're here at this conference. He says no, it's all wired You know, I got my uncle's cousin aunt or something has set up a job for me with the with the rapid transit company I'm gonna drive a bus. I'm gonna make seventy thousand dollars a year. I'm gonna have all these incredible benefits I'm gonna have a great life. Don't tell me to do tech. That was the end of the conversation I'll never forget. Wow. Yeah, I would love to know the follow-up on that to see if he was right about any of that But you know, I mean we we have a community that doesn't care, you know to advance education I don't think that's true. I don't think that's right I think that as I have walked through the district Everybody I talked to when I start by saying well, we need to make education better for all of our kids Every person says I agree. I agree. How do we do that? Well, we do that by making it a higher priority and by making sure that we're bringing more money in in order to Fund what needs to be done in the classrooms for the teachers and for all the programming that should be available So that Across the board everyone in the community says that's what they want. Okay How do we get the powers that be to take the steps necessary to? Actually change it all and make it the highest priority in the state for our future. Yes For one thing I want to say I really appreciate Governor Igay's approach thus far with the ESSA program and pulling together a mr. Darrell Galera as the head of a 19 person team that Governor you guys said okay Let's not take a look at reforming what this system is Let's instead Clean slate tabla rasa. What can you do? That's good. How should you make this look? What should it look like and then let's see how we make that happen? So that is the first very important step That means the leader of the state is saying let's make it with the professionals with these stakeholders Let's make it the best possible. Let's see what it would give you discretion to start from the beginning full discretion But can you give you authority? Can you give you funds? Can you give you political buy-in and will that's the next step? And political will actually comes from the community And that's where voting matters first of all, but that's also where making sure that you let your legislators know that this is what you Want and how important it is So when we have you know, 30% of the people vote well That means 70% of the people are just sort of hoping that things go well. Well, I don't agree with that That's why I've always been voting. That's why I'm running because I things need to change For the better and the only way you do that is by standing up first of all So we need more community members to stand up So if the community shows up and says no, this is what we want And that's where I'm inviting everyone to come to Moanalua High School to talk about this to engage in this to listen to what they're talking what these conversations are and Have input Because that's how you create Political will because then once you have that buy-in once you've had that input and then once you see how much that's going to cost Then you figure out, okay, that's where the rubber hits the road a little bit. Okay. Well, we can't do everything this year How do we plan this out? How do we phase this out and through what other means? Can we bring revenues in to help address it? So and that's one of the other topics that comes up. We can talk about that if you like Yeah, we will but first before we go to the break. I just want to where does education fit on your list of priorities There are so many things that we have to do. We could go on for hours But where does it fit on your list of priorities? It's the number one on my priority list I've got several things to go through them. I mean education is the is the primary one I go to then to energy and food security issues, which are cost of living issues I go to housing and homelessness, which are also cost of living but also How are we actually better taking care of our people that live in the state? And then I've recently been brought into a conversation which i'm very excited about I don't know a whole lot about but i've been asked to participate in prison reform All of these areas are so important for our people And they all have commonalities and that's one of the things that I have learned as well We're going to go to break now before we do. I just want to tell you that we have a prison reform program at 11 o'clock on Tuesday With erin will's called rehabilitation coming soon really good program Anyway, we're going to take a short break. We'll be right back. That's carl companion Hello, I'm mary on sasaki. Welcome to think tech hawaii where some of the most interesting conversations in hana lulu go on I have a show on wednesdays from one to two called life in the law where we discuss legal issues Politics governmental topics and a whole host of issues. I hope you'll join me Aloha, my name is josh green I serve a senator from the big island on the conus side and i'm also an emergency room physician My program here on think tech is called health care in hawaii I'll have guests that should be interesting to you twice a month We'll talk about issues that range from mental health care to drug addiction to our health care system And any challenges that we face here in hawaii. We hope you'll join us again. Thanks for supporting think tech Aloha, I'm kawi lukas host of hawaii is my mainland every friday here on think tech hawaii I also have a blog of the same game at kawi lukas.com where you can see all of my past shows Join me this friday and every friday at 3 p.m. Aloha Aloha, how you doing? Welcome to evachi talk. I'm here guard. Oh the techs are on think tech hawaii I'm here with my good old buddy andrew the security guy. Hey everybody. How you doing? Aloha Thank you for watching good to have andrew here in the house Please join us every friday from one to 130 and follow us up on youtube and remember as we say at the end of every show How are you doing quickly? We're back with carl campania He's actually the host of this show and we're talking on a given wednesday at noon You know about everything Then one of the things you mentioned carl before we went to the break which i'd like to dwell on for a minute Is prison reform? You know as part of that show is a fellow named bob merce a lawyer Cares deeply about prison reform. There's a whole bunch of people in the state cared. I didn't I wasn't aware and He told me that uh, he's going to make a study of going into o triple c with a camera Because he has come to conclusion that it's in terrible shape physically. You know, we drive by outside We don't we don't know we don't get a chance to go inside most of us But if you do go inside you find out that it's awful. It's run down. It's overcrowded. It's dirty.  I agree. I agree. I'll I'll talk about that a little bit. Yes O triple c is about 100 years old It's been there for a long time back when it was built. It was the furthest West you would go, uh with with development. It was beyond the city limits Well, it's now deeply entrenched in the middle of glee he with a lot going on around it That's impacted by what this facility is and its age Um as well. So Therefore, yes, it is old. It's decrepit. It's an infrastructure problem with costs Um as I have asked the question about that I know for the last couple of sessions there have been conversations about well, what do we do about o triple c? Should we move into halava? One of the questions that is Inherent in that is okay. Well, what would that cost if we did that? and if One of the studies that came out that said it was going to cost about 500 It's 500 million or 500 billion it was some huge amount of money Some huge amount of money in order to relocate all of the people the facilities and it's also important to understand I recently had a good conversation with senator willis-barrow. He let me know and then not a lot not a lot of people know That there's a difference between halava and o triple c halava is a prison For people who are intended to be there two to 20 years O triple c is a jail For people to be there less than two years. Really? Yes. So that was the intention of it First of all, so mixing the two is not actually appropriate In that regard if you consider what that means So and then another important piece of that whole thing is Well, if it's going to cost an exorbitant amount of money more money than we actually have in our current 13.5 billion dollar buy-in-all budget Which we know we don't Then what other alternatives are there and and that's one of the other questions that should really be explored What are the alternatives to incarceration? and what situations should we Should we readdress How we imprison people? Yeah, this is like david you guys thing, uh, you know about education You got to go back to the beginning and rethink it reimagine it absolutely have to have that sort of a fluid creative Completely innovative approach. Yes, and uh out of the box approach and figure out what to do But you know the problem is when you do that you realize that it's connected to everything else. Yes You know prison reform is related to you know people in jail. How did they get there? Why did they get there? What can we do to stop them from getting there? What can we do to rehabilitate them after the fact? Why can't we be more liberal more understanding more tolerant? What's wrong with us that we don't appreciate that how do we train them better so that when they get out of prison They're ready to go be productive members of society and reduce recidivism That's one of the challenges as well So we either just put them in jail and let them out and walk away Or are we are really addressing this from a more holistic perspective? And as soon as I started to learn more about prison reform and what's going on in the whole criminal justice system there I realized that there are similarities between prison reform And those needs from a human services perspective To kupuna care and those needs And to foster care and those needs. I got there is a similarity. It's about caring. It is all about caring But the the the structures and the systems and how they work And and the services that are needed for the children for our kupuna and for our prisoners are actually very similar If we address it in that way and recognize and maybe put them in the correct agencies Or make sure that we have services that are being provided, but that goes to one of the other challenges I mentioned we have 13.5 billion dollar biennial budget There's not enough money every agency that I spoke into department of transportation Uh department of human services go through all of them. Uh debate. They're all wholly underfunded. What does this mean? I'm sorry. What does this mean? It means what it means is there's not enough money coming in We don't have enough money coming in so therefore there aren't enough people to do the services that are necessary Which means the services aren't being done correctly or efficiently Uh or enough people aren't being addressed the way they need to be addressed whether it's uh someone who needs mental health services But they're not getting it a child who needs more care through the foster program So that they can actually get over the hurdle that they have but you know, it's not only money carl I know you offer the thought that um Sometimes we are inefficient in how we spend the money sure sure and sometimes we are inefficient the requiring this Spending money, you know for a given project for example. Why is it cost so much for land here? uh This I know this is another show, but why is it cost so much to um, you know for a condo for people For affordable housing. Well, one of the reasons is we have bureaucracy that slows down any contractor And we have a permitting process. It makes it hard and much more expensive. I can go into that I have I have I'm not a contractor, but I have 25 years experience in construction project management development So what I can tell you and this is across the board our permitting process is inconsistent And there needs to be a change and and and a revision to that some of that is more City county based and I would encourage and will work towards whatever possible in order to make those changes So that there is a consistency through that and that's one of the problems It's inconsistent and that includes the triggers that require EIS is the environmental impact statements and other aspects that need to be done So having a consistency through that program would be a huge help in that direction You want to talk about how hard it is to do business here? You want to develop something here? That's one of the challenges is how do you actually get that done there? So that's one area that needs to be addressed. I've also had the fortune of being able to do Both state and federal procurement or involved in contracts that are state and federal oriented So therefore I've been able to see a procurement process The federal procurement process is very specific. The federal acquisition rules are very specific You need to learn how to be a compliance officer and you make sure that things are being done accordingly Statewide we have similar rules But the way things happen as soon as you get into agencies Soon as you get into the department of education for that matter How they do procurement within the department of education Isn't as clear and it isn't as consistent as it's done in other locations Because they're given some rain and how they do this some of that's okay I want to give people opportunity to give rain. I don't want to control everything I want people to be able to do this and create it But if it's not being done correctly, we need to address it. That's when legislature needs to come in and say well Please give me your audit of what you do and how you do it and why Because it doesn't seem to be efficient. It doesn't seem to be working The amount of money that we're giving you isn't actually getting to where we were hoping it was going to get to So all of these things that we need fixed aren't actually being fixed So now show me how you do what you do and why Last year I got to be part actually first number of years now. I've been a part of the farm to school plus working group At first I got invited by the farmers union farmers union united I didn't know why I wasn't a farmer But they brought me and I sat down and I realized within a few minutes why it was important for me to be there And that was because I was the only one who spoke the language that they all spoke but they all didn't speak each other's language We had the procurement. I will actually state procurement office wasn't even there. We had department of education We have senators and we have representatives. We had Nutrition office. We had usda. We had the farmers union. We had ctar. We had Farmers bureau. We had all these people at the table and they all spoke different languages So after about 10 minutes of me taking notes I raised my hand said if I may and I said please I said I've heard around this table here are five issues That we're facing five hurdles in order to overcome this food thing as far as our schools prisons and hospitals are concerned and I'm not sure if all of you were aware of this But I also listened and I heard that this group is actually trying to address this issue That group is trying to address this issue and that one is trying to to address this issue There are a couple of other areas that aren't being addressed at the moment But it would be great if we were to pursue that and in fact can we get The state procurement office here to talk about what these policies and processes should be So what's the problem you're describing is it is it that people are in their own silos advancing their own Agendas and not listening to the other guy not trying to solve his problem Or is it um, you know that there were too many players at the table Sometimes I think you know like for example in energy. They had this irp process and they allowed They wanted to have every stakeholder. They could think of well and they got every stakeholder They could think of they had 82 people involved in this process and it failed miserably Okay, and that's going to happen again and again And I mean is it because there's too many people we don't need that many people Is it because there's no leader at the top, you know Corraling those people and making them get out of their silos or is it because you nobody really wants To address the common the common issue that everybody is there in this process Hawaii the state of process, you know, I think it's the middle one. I think it's the middle one. I think that Without clear leadership and direction To go try something to go make something happen and work Then things just kind of happen around each other So if I'm not giving enough I'm working and I have a boss or three bosses and I'm supposed to do this job And I'm doing this job and I think I'm doing the best that I can But no one's giving you training. No one's giving me continued training No one is thinking about what I should be doing or how I should be doing it in a year from now Five years from now and so on and I'm just doing this job and no one is providing me with any guidance I think I'm doing great. Well, you know what maybe I'm not doing great. Maybe I'm doing great at this small little piece But I'm not really considering it because you know what I live and I work in a silo So the silos are a problem and the more we can integrate the more we can knock down those walls And you do that with leadership you do that with leadership you do that with leadership And that's why it's important that we have Leaders that will pull people together And say here what are the challenges or here are some challenges? How do we fix this? How do we get from here to there? I don't want to hear about this that and the other and all of my challenges and problems unless there's a solution behind it You know, I always say leaders require followers In other words, you can be a great leader But if people are determined not to follow you then you can't do anything That's true And I think the community has all got to get around this issue that you're talking about We need leaders. We need to empower leaders. We need to give them authority We need to follow them and if we don't do that, we won't have the process of leadership going on I agree with that except I would revise it this way. We don't give somebody authority and power They Earn it It's not a matter of well, you're in that position So I'll just listen to you because how many of us have had bosses that we realize a year into it We actually know more about this than they do And we would be better at managing this than they are So it's not about just that it's not it and I'll also say it's not about how long you've been doing anything either Have you been doing it correctly? Have you been asking the right question? Yeah Yeah Kind of why this reminds me of something in the navy that I studied when I covered the ahim in maru incident off waki ki It was called command climate. In other words, there is a commander But the commander has to be listening to people Yes, and people have to try to help the commander. Yes, and it's got it's a social compact a governmental compact I think we have to reinvent that here in hawaii I think that would be I think that would be beneficial to rethink How we do our process. Yeah to some extent. Carl, you're terrific. Well, thank you. I love having these conversations Invite me back. Please anytime Carl, I can't stand you. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Appreciate the time


In tax optimal capital structure, let's see whether there is any limit of using debt in order to obtain any tax shield. We know that a firm can receive full tax benefit of leverage without using 100% debt financing in its operations. And for that purpose, a firm must have taxable earnings to obtain tax savings. This means there is a limit of using debt in order to have tax shield of debt. And that limitation is the taxable earnings or the profitable earnings, which means that earnings before interest and tax of a particular firm should be positive in order to go for the tax saving. A firm with interest payment beyond earning before interest and tax pays no taxes because there is no taxable profit so no immediate tax shield can be there from the excessive leverage. The optimal leverage from tax saving perspective is the point where the interest payments of a firm are equal to its earnings before interest and taxes. Let's see tax savings with different amounts of leverage. Assume that a firm with earning before interest and tax of $1000 and a corporate tax rate of 35%. We have three scenarios where in one scenario we have no leverage, in the other we have high level of leverage and in the third we have excessive leverage. We have a bit of $1000 for all the three scenarios. We have no debt in the case of no leverage and 1000 interest expense which is equal to the a bit of $1000. This is the case of higher leverage and we have $1100 as interest expense which is greater than the amount of a bit and this is the case of excessive leverage. If we see the net income, we have net income of $650 in first case, zero income in higher leverage case and negative $100 income or the loss of $100 in the excessive leverage case. So when we see the tax savings from the leverage, there is no tax saving in the case of no leverage and full tax saving of $350 in case of higher leverage and we have no tax saving on the excessive leverage where we have extra interest of $100 because we have no extra profit against this $100. So we see that there is in the case of no leverage, the firm is owing a tax of $350 on the full amount of a bit and at higher level of leverage with interest payment equal to $1000, full earning of $350 can be shielded from taxes and with excessive leverage, the interest payments are going beyond a bit. So the firm has a net operating loss of $100. This means there is no tax to pay. In this case, no increase in tax savings on excessive interest payments are there. In other graph, we see that the firm for a bit with certainty and interest payment of same amount can maximize the tax savings as we are seeing in the case of $1000 of a bit where interest expense is equal to this amount and where the firm cannot predict the interest, the abit very precisely then abit with uncertainty has greater vulnerability of exceeding a higher interest expense over the abit. So that we are seeing here as a consequence is that the tax savings for higher interest falls possibly reducing the optimal level of interest payments. Is there any low leverage puzzle? Let's see what does it mean. A study of S&P's 500 firms from 1975 to 2015 shows interest expense of leveraged firm well below its taxable income. This means that these firms were mainly under leveraged. Why this thing happened or why these firms could not exploit fully the option of debt financing when talked to the managers, many of them have had consensus on few things like they said that debt financing has other costs preventing firms from using interest tax shield fully and why this was the cause because the higher debt level increases the probability of bankruptcy and debt payments must be paid to avoid bankruptcy That means that the payment of interest and debt is a legal obligation of the firm but to pay dividend is not a legal restriction or binding on the firm for its equity holders. So the costly bankruptcy may offset the tax advantages of the debt. So we see while solving this low leveraged puzzle that the probability of the riskiness of bankruptcy is the main cause that prevent a firm using the debt at a full level because the cost of bankruptcy may go beyond the benefit of the tax debt advantage.


BSU women's hockey began their first road matchup of the year tonight out in Providence taking on the Friars and Providence they would strike early and often they would score in just the first two minutes of the game and then score twice more to take a three to nothing lead. Abby Holuska gets a goal but it was too little too late as the women's college team falls 4-1. If you enjoyed this segment of Lakeland news please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland PBS.


So, let's see so you know I have been looking at and for last 4-5 hours and I have seen that very few people are asking questions and in fact the motive of the right in the beginning and not really because you are doing summer internship but when it comes to have have some group activity or some sort of you know type of you know environment you need to put in some efforts so that you can you know you can make others who have not asked questions they can participate and then it becomes very interesting. So, this has not happened I felt I was wrong but now I am right today what is summer internship see anybody can answer you come here for summer internship I think you are the best people to know I mean you know why you have come here what is your motive why what is that you want to perceive after this what do you want to do so what is summer internship so I just put it as a course a normal course in the university where you are actually been given an environment to work and and do some activity and you know a lot of so some knowledge building you know and it carries forward right so but there are no quizzes I believe there are quizzes here yeah there are quizzes so it's like a small course a two-month course. So, posing questions for answers so questions very important answers are not important actually you must have come from background where you feel that answers are the most important thing but answers are not important questions are important but of course you want to get answers from them that's why you you like to pose and then you would like to build your own knowledge right slowly slowly it's a it's a very slow process it's not very fast so previous experiences always I mean have been you you just saw a course this is computer programming oh I want to register for that course then maybe a discrete manner of things I want to register for what make what makes you think that way do you talk to somebody or you don't talk or there are fixed set of courses which you take for semester right so you have to take but why you should be taking that but then you should you still must be talking to somebody right or you don't talk you're isolated or maybe your seniors would help you and say that oh this is this is important this is important so can you tell me which are the fundamental courses in computer science is but slightly before finite automata so that's where we are logic without logic none of these courses would have progressed to at level which you see there is always a logic when you write it write an algorithm right some some I don't know you have a logic course or you don't have a logic course or it is a part of discrete structures right this is mathematics so that is not correct we should have a course on logic and here you have a course on logic it's called foundations of logic so there you have lots of you know tend to understand here and there and then you understand algorithms you don't know why you should be writing so those statements what are the reasons do you have assertion somewhere or you just write it for the sake of writing do you prove it somewhere I mean see these are all the things you know logic plays a major role when you want to actually prove an algorithm or any any programming say it's like a proof it said that program actually one of the papers talks about saying that proof is a program you have a proof you have a program but if you have a program you don't have a proof okay so let me go ahead what is star I'm put star is everybody knows wild character so I would ask what is what then so what is so whenever you say you know discrete mathematics these that that that and then how do we know what actually what what what is what you must have learned when you were very small right not now very small so how did you learn it can you tell me the process curiosity is you're curious to know many things but not about what people answer you know that's how we learn what nobody taught us what is this and if you see a dictionary meaning I don't know how it will look like maybe interact interrogative way of asking a question or something like so it's difficult to define right anybody know about Godel great mathematician I may take two hours okay first complete theorem of Godel says it's difficult to define why it's difficult to define what you think about what could be different and what others would be thinking about what that's also correct but at least we should have some formal definitions so that our mind can actually feel that this is the boundary in which we are you know the boundary so you may define your own boundary so why it is difficult you know you have language and then you have axioms so I call what is an axiom here so you have language and and axioms on that language and you have theorems on that language your corollaries on that language you have whatever but you have axioms with you you can straight away prove the theorems but you cannot prove the axioms of that language you cannot prove so for a language to define it has to start with something and those are assumptions and which are called as axioms like a point in geometry is is an assumption without that I don't think you would have reached at this point where people are doing so complex things right just because of point line is extended and 3d and all those things right so you also then what do we do if if I have a language L and I have axioms on that language and then I have theorems proving not proving those axioms theorem being proved using axioms but I cannot prove these axioms so what generally you should be doing is that you design another language which is a super language for this language so L dash or higher language becomes a super set of this language and then the axioms from here become theorems there and then that language has got another another those axioms so considered if you had you had if you had to start mathematics with line instead of a point so line could have been called as an axiom and then you prove the remaining but then if you want to have prove a point I mean you cannot prove a point but if you want to prove a line then you need another language which says there is a point which is assumed and then line follows from that right so language above language so meta language so somewhere there is a some sort of higher language through which we understand this the world so what what what is and what is what is it not say if I so moment you try to understand something is it what is it what is it right I can I can I can write a nice logical form formula saying everything which is there in this world is not this so you can be that precise so in a way you are trying to confine your area you know your shrinking shrinking shrinking when you want to when you really understand what is it it's not just what is the marker so there's a lot of things inside and you know so many things maybe if you just want to understand just a marker no but something inside something more you know so so that knowledge keeps on growing slowly slowly so what is something and what is not something right so I define this formula actually the top has a very old history somebody asked me what is what actually and so I was not able to answer so I took me around five to six months only to understand and I did some work and I tried to merge for one logic I tried to merge system dynamics I tried to merge you know algebra and I tried to merge something which I don't remember okay so I call these the fundamental axioms so do you see something weird so there were six wives one husband so there's to fight continuously for something so the what wife would ask only what question what what what no why questions so why wife will ask only why question like this all of them is to ask that question which they can ask and they used to fight continuously until they reach a point where they could understand something I mean in towards the end I have a quote saying why it's important the morning Avina Shavati said that don't listen to the idiot listen to somebody who is much better right so we understand the meaning of what from this okay so title is little scary so I did not put this it's universal paradox there's a paradox inside a circular oscillating and self-referential so I will try to explain little little about everything so if you take an example from general algebra so if you say x square plus 1 equals 0 and x equals minus 1 by x right I can put it this way so if you put in a value of x as 1 you get minus 1 but if you put minus 1 you get at one how is it possible it's a paradox imaginary right that's how we define say root of minus 1 I right which is same as I so what is the value of x actually to root of minus 1 right imaginary now what is imaginary it is oscillating minus 1 1 minus 1 1 minus 1 1 okay so I am no I am I did not discover anything like that but I just tried to put some connections here and there and it comes from the first reference see I have put references everywhere so the work is mine but the ideas have come from somewhere okay so these are this is this is the way you should be giving credits to others yes so it's imaginary so now it's also circular because I am trying to refer the same thing again and again so from the answers I am I try to get back to say what and from what I get answers so it's circular one of the nice things to understand how circularity is defined is if you if you see art of computer programming have you has anybody read that book the great fathers it's important sometimes history is very important without history how can you survive okay so there are oscillations and like root of minus one which is imaginary see circular definition this may not be at the same place but with a big gap in between some other definitions some other index material will be there and then so you also need to search what where what is there you know and that's the way you can define so easy do you need any formal theory to define this so easy like that so making things simple as possible is more important so see our mind cannot visualize probably would be able to so generally you would may study 18 dimensions or 19 dimensions and then only maybe yeah there are people who study it above nine dimensions so what do I say is that I'm just trying to establish a connection I is imaginary with real values okay so fine not of Phi I do you understand Phi Phi this Phi this is a formula Phi I can replace with anything this is also a formula I can replace with anything it can be not what what and okay so but you know you can still not have this it's impossible to have this and it's still an open problem which will never be solved okay that's the ultimate so why paradoxes are important you see that up there's a paradox this existing as well as this existing is a paradox right language of paradox say we don't like it but when presented in some forms like poems and all so we do appreciate it you know we our mind is very happy to appreciate something which is not possible in this world so we like cartoons and you know so many things you know science fiction and you know many many other things which we don't actually see and our mind likes it and actually we are in that frame so anyway the you know much of the things would have not happened in poetry if there was no contradictions like this so paradoxes were not there in poems probably poetry poems would have not reached a level where where it is today also so I can give you some so our sweetest songs are those that tell of saddest thought is it possible no literally you will feel it is what you like I mean it's interesting to read right it makes you little happy and the second one you see I come back to where I have never been like science fiction is above science fiction I don't know what's what so so what I'm saying is that so now probably it may look like a sermon but pardon me if you don't like it just close your ears and you can go to sleep so we are not ever all programmatically but logically with some inferencing mechanism we you know we try to infer you know and not very much programmatically like the way we should say that so because it is not inherent is in us and then you know unless until we have some basis we don't go ahead and accept things but except in some cases where you are happy with paradoxes it's okay right so need to understand six W's and one H right from the morning 9 9 30 onwards I think the question that you should be asking questions this and that and then a Vina shower taken with why question why why why why so I'm just trying to fill up the gaps you know so six W's and one H so idea is that you know the questions tell you a lot of things actually it's not about just asking questions for the sake of asking but it does tell you something that you would like to you know it's an art actually articulation in some form wherein you would you are expressing yourself so making you feel little more comfortable asking something right rather than you just start doing things you know don't ask anybody I mean people will be little scared right so it's always good to ask you know something like that so you understand and my my basic feeling is that you would understand those fundamental exams that and if you have been doing that but somewhere you are stopped like the curiosity somebody mentioned now the curiosity S is not taking you anywhere so your curiosity is little weaker so I was in fact hoping that my energy would get lost by this time 9 5 30 now and 56 o'clock so so this is what you get it's no different than doing any m-tech this is or PhD this is because every time you need to ask something see it's not like you know I it's not like you know you keep on asking questions all all the time all the time no that's not good also then I think the people were standing here would run away right so some questions which are important and and it is not that you are not encouraged to ask those questions which are which look little foolish also you can ask you can ask but every time you ask the same question then people may not like so so you have to think you know so asking questions also to yourself not not maybe not to others but yourself and then finding out somewhere like you know curiosity that's curiosity so that's important actually so it's not different than doing your m-tech this is or you know so almost same it won't be different if you have tomorrow get married so fights will happen this will happen kid will be there and so kid will ask question if you don't ask question kid will ask question life will be interesting so you know get used to it now itself so this is the quotation in fact if I'm a fool then somebody else is there to tell you that but I am still quoting myself down I keep six on a serving man and they taught me all I knew their names are what and why and when and how how and where and who difficult to read also so I'm what I'm saying is that anything you do you start you can simple exercise I didn't want to bore you with an algorithm and saying that now write an algorithm now again you write an algorithm now apply why why rule now apply what rule you know I didn't want to do that it's nice you know you write something somebody can read hundreds of people can read but if you don't write anything nobody will read so how do you help I mean how do you take your knowledge somewhere you don't write anything I believe that documentation is the most important thing which is just the opposite of you know some lectures two lectures down so for me in fact everything is important not only documentations and not only documentation everything code is also important code should be beautiful not somewhere hanging something you know that's not coding good style should be there everything should be present should be there you know like error error reporting messages these that it's not just right algorithm is not a code right do you agree or not right you write everything without indentation it's as good as throwing in a dustbin so don't ever do that it has to be you have to spend time time command should be there comment is also documentation actually type of documentation I don't know what would have happened if your own so take for example any book if if the fifth page was one that fiftieth page and some other page was in place of the fifth page and like this all the pages were jumbled up and kept somewhere how do you search how do you read it has to be written nicely right when you write on wiki I mean we have a wiki I'll show you why writing on wiki is important because somebody has to read it I mean if he is not readable you should not write it if you don't want to write it then you should tell yourself that it is important but anyway writing is important so this is success model but I have defined it this way so if anybody has taken system dynamics course mostly offered in mechanical or just get offered many many places very here also in computer science you have a course so so it's just a diagram it's easy to understand okay so what do I say is that this is our what we want to achieve you know we are always but which is not achievable this and this both are both you know we want everything right but by doing this we try to understand the meaning of what that is the phi you know or maybe y or something something like that so what is not just about what it's about some something right and so you can replace with anything it's not this is not very prominent and so all three things are the more most important thing so work hard play and enjoy the daily life you should enjoy work hard and play somewhere so not just work hard work hard it's on a computer computer computer give me results give me results so you know I hear many people say I don't like mathematics have you heard then I like it then I like it then I work hard more like that so you probably that person must have not worked hard so he doesn't like it sorry he doesn't understand it and then he doesn't understand it I like it right so it's as simple as that so but many people say I like something I'm very scared sometimes you know people say I like machine learning or when people when people say I like computational geometry or something something like that so you know basically it's very important that you balance this okay so you don't you don't only keep on working hard so much too much you work hard okay this is a back arrow this is an arrow little cancel and this circle will not move properly they're placed nicely if you see they will coincide and then so you work hard you play and you on you enjoy if you try to do something more like if you only enjoy then I think other things will go for a toss you'd have to leave some more internship will be in trouble you can enjoy an IIT Bombay for two two months right do they get the salary and striper and everything without working how to think critically okay so all the time I'm talking about what what and why and must have got bored and I don't think we should keep on doing the same thing so I'm just that deviating myself to think critically so you can ask questions you can really ask questions and you see this slide this is not the slide which is just put for the sake of putting but this is the very old slide and in fact this has come from polia so you know if you read this it is still applicable now in this I think it's book probably came in 1940s or 1920s I don't remember I have 1988 yeah but he has been teaching for a long time was 30 40 years and he developed this and it was a great great mathematician the first thing that you need to do is to understand the problem I'm just covering the left hand side and I will leave those things for you and maybe you can see it's very important the first thing you understand the problem problem you don't understand the problem you cannot do anything right so why you are here is also a problem right I mean what what do you have to do many of them do not know what they have to do so they are listening here and somebody is going to take and now this idiot is giving this type of lecture so that's that's also a problem so second find the connection between the data and the unknown so there are three things in a problem any problem so there is a data there is a unknown in a problem okay and then there there's a condition on those on that problem the condition of conditions on that problem that's that's it that's a problem any problem say take for example sorting or something any any algorithm any problem definition you go and see any any of those there are only three things data unknown what what is to be found and conditions on it you don't have conditions you don't have anything you don't have data you cannot do anything right and if you don't have unknown you don't know what you're doing that's a problem because you don't know what you're doing you just have data conditions you don't know what to do right so they are mostly those people are like lost somewhere so they have to go to Lakeside IIT Bombay and sit sometime there to understand what to do some some problems have solved in some context so you may want to see them and see how it is solved somewhere and can I apply here and is it fitting somewhere if it is near not fitting somewhere can I change the problem okay these are all the configurations in fact in fact this is not one one way like this then only you can say that you have actually put your heart in solving that whatever it is writing a code or anything you know not just written for the sake of writing but you're put enough of your heart and you know whatever you say curiosity patience whatever whatever you have you know that much so you it's iterating all the time actually it's like see the very pattern matching type so anything which you have seen before is unknown same is the condition very same is the data somewhere have used like this in solving some other problem can I use it here can I take another problem which is very looking very similar to this can I modify this problem and solve that problem in such a way that that problem is going to affect this problem solve it some some you know tweak somewhere and then can I solve a bigger problem later so all these things you know keep on thinking so that's where you know what why and you know how to do and all those things will come questions coming from inside you know can I do like this can I do like that so everywhere and it is always good to talk to people because something which are identified maybe it is not the best sometimes generally you would need to this I see people coming and saying I got a great idea great idea this is never been done before the person will come and sit and he tell me that this this this this oh have you looked at something like this before this was done in 1950 so like that you know so do not be ignorant and always appreciate I understand what what you are thinking now is that if you come up with something today and if you you want to claim that it is yours it's good but take a little efforts you know little efforts to go and check who has done what that's the only that's only possible if you ask experienced people experienced people will tell you okay so then credit them those who have done it already okay I would not say that you can still say that I have been able to do this but it actually comes from here that's the most important thing that's how you learn not by saying I have done everything credit give it to them those who deserve it all even even if you are thought that this is the solution which I have come up by not looking anywhere that's the most important thing that's how otherwise if you give credit to yourself tomorrow you will say I'm champion I'm going everywhere see like this like this like it telling everybody who you know how I solve this problem like this like this like this like this like this like this like this like this so you will only do that so the best thing is to give credits to others because you will get more inputs so purpose why you are doing it you tell me if you don't lie I mean if you if you say that this is not the purpose of doing this this project has to go in this direction I'm very happy you can do that so motivation what do you mean by motivation motivation for the project is about examples which are available readily available and you see an impact if you do work in that area it will have a good impact somewhere that's motivation you're motivating the project the goals of the project it's a very important problem you're trying to highlight it you understand you're highlighting and saying it's very important look there is no code and all you don't write code in motivation you write I mean if of course you want to solve it problem related to language see language or any of this semantics of the language then you may have to motivate using some examples so examples are important why this is the most important thing that you're doing okay review of existing literature sources with proper criticism I am sure you must have seen a lot of at least 40 to 50 papers which have been put have you downloaded and read something those people who are opted for the FRG group have you have you read at least one so you are supposed to read 50 papers and above each paper is at least 14 to 20 pages no it's important okay so we can do it very fast okay I'll tell you how to go about so that's not very important but but the main thing is which is criticism is important so where is the point why we should I mean why do so out of 50 which I put there only 10 may qualify tomorrow so you have to read 50 or 100 but only 10 is to be taken not because you're read 50 I have seen a m tech students who actually they have read some at least 30 30 40 papers by the whole semester or two semesters and they put it in their final thesis just because they have read it but there's no connection so don't do that that's not good then you have to tell them that this is not correct actually okay so you you put only those which are important okay problem identification problem is to add to be identified you have seen already see generally people forget you know people say I have I have this is my problem but if you actually observe it somewhere the condition is missing somewhere the unknown is missing and somewhere data is also missing so you know that's why that slide is important sometimes you take that slide print out and put it somewhere where you maybe where you sleep or you know just put it so that morning you get up do some exercise and read you know it's like reading a Bible Bible for two two months problem identification and formulation it's very important that you formulate it properly putting forward specific can mean research questions what questions can you put what are these different questions can you can you classify them in this different form can you say these are the questions research questions in this category in this category probably this in this category okay after that moving ahead and then you prove it okay you just don't classify and keep it like that so then you have a plan for solving how do I solve it any intelligent way of looking at the problem so in initially you can say okay this is how it could be solved now can we do something slightly better slowly slowly slowly slowly you arrive at a point now you say that this is look I mean there must be some reason for arriving at a point no I don't think even insertion sort or any of those very simple ones I'll tell you insertion sort or even binary search might have come after so many years of research not in one shot you you might be taking it for granted that that's binary sort that's insertion that's short you know traveling salesman's problem what's that that's nothing I know it so it must have come after lot of lot of lot of work and then you know maybe a five years six years ten years and then it has come in proper shape and then it has come to your you know that textbooks like Corman or whatever so it's important that you do it that way rather than plain saying that I am going to use this algorithm that algorithm so any algorithm that you are reading from those papers or anywhere that you find okay I'll give a list of resources from where you would find where you are supposed to look at okay there's no one resource that is important many other resources which are important okay not only the papers so and then critical analysis of the problem giving various solutions the problems identified almost case study along with possible data collection so you have a case to be the case study something like some case like you know scenario or somewhere you know in some setting such a problem needs to be addressed and for such a problem these data may be required you know and then you go and collect that data from somewhere so you need to find where you could get such a data for example if you are doing something on gene gene sequencing or you know in the huge like a human genome genome project so there you will actually go and hunt for the human data know ATCG and all those things right so where is the where is the source you are not going to write a very pat 10 10 character gene is that going to work just just a 10 character ATCG over this is my program this is my ATCG and this is my output that's not good enough real data from where such maybe in such a data is available data is available now open you know US government at least has provided much of their data in the public so you can get data wherever you feel it is important even I think in Indian scenario I mean it should be available in certain cases Wikipedia is available free demonstrating the research work so to demonstrate to show somebody has to feel that what you have done is useful no not just saying okay this is my output this is my input over no no there must be some flow why how do you arrive at this point okay we need to break it properly proper documentation and feature recommendations that means you just don't leave it saying that this is my work and it is over the future what is the possibility in the future somebody can look into it so that means by creating something you are giving ideas to other people who may be in a position to think on those lines so future work is always important and of course conclusion that you generally do but future work is very important because your time and energy that you are spent in doing something if there is no future scope then nobody nobody will you know people have to go through your report again and again and again they'll have to coin their own future work and like that so it's good that you show that this is important and this has not been tackled before so this is and this is at this stage very difficult you know that complexity so how difficult is it you need to state so future is I mean future recommendations very important clean card presentation for layman to understand so no jargon's okay very simple presentation present presentation has to be I should be understood by almost everybody okay so that is why it's very important so so these are the literature sources so you know you can take from research papers journals available conference proceedings technical reports BTEC MTEC PhD thesis okay if PhD thesis is probably mostly 150 pages so you may have to read the whole thesis not everything but something which is important you don't read everything okay when you read a paper so monographs generally like art of computer programming is a monograph I think two three decades none of the books are like that type you know in the pit so it was like a Bible before before the corpsman and all these things are not available so people were using that as a Bible so renowned books of course good was like corpsman then white papers papers are generally coming from products or something like that you know companies so they have they write something but they don't disclose everything so don't get you know read it read it it's important then software documentation somewhere documentation is available for a software you should read it okay so don't neglect okay user manuals very important sometimes sometimes you feed user manuals are useless it's not correct because by just reading an user manual and if you have if it is nicely written maybe people like her who write so nicely then you can understand the inside functionality in no time manuals are very important you don't even have to see the core you will understand what is where okay almost to some extent like how you understand Microsoft Office and you know now I think you understand if you know computer science principles you know the strong foundations in computer science then I think you can build word and anything like that so that's not very difficult but that's how you understand no so after going here it does these it does these how does it do so some questions ring in your mind so websites of course many websites are there need to choose which one of those are going to help you now of course the dictionary is important I have 15 dictionaries news letters magazines newspapers also keep track buy newspaper sometimes okay outside available in the market so finally it's very important that I give this phrase because generally people here and forget but if they see they remember and if they do something they understand so that's a Chinese phrase I think I'm not finished my this is my second and first talk so these are my references for this talk so the whole talk is based on five that is Russell my whole philosophy for this talk is he was in prison meant for almost ten years or something during that time in 1918 very old and he wrote this in the prison actually and that tells you the struggle struggle that he had in a rose to freedom can read it sometimes


Hello everybody. Good to see you all here. The topic of today's Tech Talk is an initiative, the last mini initiative called FASTA Discourse. The FASTA Discourse Operator, well, we created it and it serves to synchronize the group membership from FAS powered by free IPA, the Federal Discussion Discourse Instance. How did it start? In the beginning, there was a ticket from Matthew where he got inspired by the solution of Community Shift Authorization Operator to sync IPA groups with a Community Shift cluster. And he was thinking about using the same technical solution to sync IPA groups with the discourse groups. It would allow us to use the FASTA as a single source of truth and other things like to link permissions for posting in certain areas to group membership or grant Fedora contributors in certain groups, some higher level, not a new V level. So what does it do? Users in Fedora Discussion are added or removed according to their state in FASTA that applies to the groups that exist both in Fedora Discussion and FASTA and that's determined by matching name. The change made by the sponsors or members to the group in FAS will be automatically mirrored to Fedora Discussion. Not matching groups and some service groups like discourse admins and moderators are ignored. So it's a one-way sync of FASTA group membership to Fedora Discussion. Physically, if a user is added or removed from a group in FAS and that user has a discourse account, the discourse user will be added or removed from that group. Also, if an account is not a valid account in FAS anymore for whichever reason the user will be removed from all groups shared in FAS, with FAS. So the solution is very similar to what we used for the community shift authorization operator. We didn't want to reinvent anything but we wanted to use as much as we could from what has already been written. For this reason, we used the same Ansible-based operator SDK, the Playbook running task and we used as much of the code we could from the Python modules. The operator images in Quay IO under the Fedora namespace and the molecule tests are currently designed to run only in a cluster. Running locally would require creating your own discourse API key and keytap file for the Kinect and creating a secret. So that's why. And how did we solve it? So the Playbook is running five tasks. In the first task, the operator retrieves secrets such as discourse API key with hostname and fastjson hostname with principle from the private Ansible repo and populates the variables in the Playbook. All configuration for the operator is in the private Ansible repo. There are also variables which the operator uses internally like the keytap path, principle, ignore groups and so on. Those are populated by Query and secrets object in the open shift. Second task, the fast discourse operator handles the Kerberos authentication to fastjson via keytap file. The next task, the operator queries the discourse API to retrieve the list of the groups and list of the users of each group. In the fourth task, the operator queries the fastjson with the discourse group list and retrieves the membership of each group in free IPA. And in the last fifth task, using set functions, the operator figures out first who is not in discourse but is in API group and adds them. And who is in discourse and not in API group removes them, IPA. Always switch them. Anyways, important note is that it's a one-way sync. So the users added or removed by the sponsors in discourse will be kicked out or added again with the next loop. So it's important to point out to tell everybody who might be an admin of the discourse so that they use really fast. And for the matching to happen correctly, we had to rename some of the groups in discourse to match exactly the fast ones. Also, only the users that have an account in discourse get synced. Not all the users that are in fast. So the loop runs every 20 minutes now. This can be lowered to five or two if we see the need. But we must be careful not to hit the rate limit in discourse. The rate limit can be adjusted in every discourse instance by default. By default, the maximum is 50 requests per 10 seconds per IP. If the task fails, any of them, the entire loop stops and retries. So we eliminate situations like they've discovered during testing that when something fails, for example, during authentication with the key tab and we get an empty list of groups, the operator does not go and wipe out all the users from the matching discourse group. If a new group is added to the discourse and there is a matching group in fast, it will start synchronizing the users. So the operator has been tested in staging discourse instance with staging fast. And it has been successfully deployed a couple of weeks ago to production. And it's running in the OpenShift cluster. Here are the links. The code is in the buggered slash CPE in faster discourse. And in including some open issues with enhancements, we could be still working on. There is a link for SOPs where you can find talks about how to install, build and release the operator workflows for the debugging and so on. And yep, there are ideas how we could still enhance stuff. For example, by creating that the link permissions for posts in certain areas will be bonded to group membership. And that the users that are sponsors in IPA will be added as admins to discourse, which also poses, yeah. But there's a thing that in fast, as Matthew pointed out that in fast, the sponsors don't need to be members of a group while in discourse they have to. So that's a thing we have to solve. And we could also sync other account information like time zone region or pronounce from faster discourse or disabled discourse account when the account is not valid in fast in case there is a need for that. And yeah, one of the things we might look closer into in the future would be adding the users into their groups immediately when they log in for the first time in the discourse if there is the need to do that. Okay, that is all. We have also one stretched call that would be making the Ansible stuff into Galaxy as an Ansible discourse model, which we figured out does not exist yet. And yeah, with that, that's all. And open floor for the questions. We've answered a couple in the chat already. Yeah. Thanks. Go ahead, Kevin. Just real quick. Could you maybe talk about why this is an operator as opposed to a project, what the reasoning was there? How do you mean a project? Well, just an open shift. Yeah, so what is the advantage of an operator over just an application or another? And I know we've talked about this before, but I think it would be interesting. So it is a project and it is just an application. And the only thing is an operator is just an application that's built using a design pattern. So a design pattern, which is the operator pattern, and it's built using the operator SDK, which is like a framework. So basically, when we first started this project, like myself and Lincoln ran a couple of commands on the command line. And what it does is this thing just automatically creates the framework like the skeleton framework of the application. So it creates a whole bunch of files. And then if you look at what we actually added to the project, we only added Ansible. So basically what we got for free was all of the code that handles the crap, like being able to talk to OpenShift, communicate with OpenShift, retrieve secrets or interact with the OpenShift API. All of that kind of heavy listening stuff is already taken care of and handled. And the only thing you have to worry about then is actually just working in some Ansible. And anything that the Ansible doesn't cover, then you can, like we did do a couple of Python modules, Ansible Python modules, just to interact with the discourse API or whatever. So that's kind of why we went with that.  So the whole loop, like the 20-minute loop that basically is very easily configurable. You can change it to whatever you like. But we just want to have 20 minutes initially at least. So from that point of view, like it's very similar to the Fedora, which I thought was once called toddlers, the whole toddler system. So you have something that like you have a short-lived job that you can run on a loop or, you know, you can activate whenever you need to. Does that answer Kevin or? Yeah, yeah. This is a great new question. Well, that might be a pattern that you want to use moving forward to for other things. So that, yeah, thanks. Yeah, what I love about it is the fact that it's mostly Ansible. So Ansible and Python. So they're probably the biggest skill sets we have on the team, right? So like anybody, once they see how these things are put together, they're very, very easy to look at. So like if you just go into the role folder inside the operator code, you can see everything is self-contained in that role. And it's just a couple of Ansible playbooks with the library files, the Python code bundled with it. And of course, if you have any dependencies or whatever, you build it in when you're actually building the operator container itself. And it just, it's built from the operator SDK image itself. So you have full control over this thing. You can do whatever you like with it. Add any dependencies or, but obviously it'd be better if you didn't have to add anything custom. You could just depend on the, you know, the upstream container. Yep. So I asked myself, like, like you mentioned that there are API limits, which we don't want to run against in this course. Is there a way in the operator pattern to act not on a like time-scheduled basis, but for an event-triggered basis? Yeah. So basically the whole point of the operator is that we've actually added a new API to OpenShift. So by installing this operator, we've created this. Yeah, what's it? Let me put it in chat. Fast discourse config. We created this new object called a fast discourse config. It completely depends on how you've developed this thing, but you could very easily add something that could then react on react, you know, in a reactive nature. If there was something like, if there was like a listener hooked up to the Fedora messaging that would then create or edit one of these objects in OpenShift, the operator then can take that and then run an Ansible task or an Ansible playbook to then do something based on that action. But in our case, it doesn't do anything apart from like a single instance of that object will actually just make the operator looper on every 20 minutes. It just reconciles everything, but there's nothing to stop us adding something. I don't know, like a fast discourse user object or something like that, which might, it might go update a particular individual user when one of those objects are created and then when it's done, then it might delete it. Thanks. Okay, so I have a question. What will happen if the membership of the user is changed on the discourse side? Then it will get overwritten. Just overwritten, okay. The person, if you add it on discourse, it will, in the latest in 20 minutes, it will get wiped out and if it gets deleted, it will get re-edited. Okay. Yep, so one way sync. Yep. I was just surprised that if there is any group on the discourse side and that isn't in ignore list, it will actually crash the loop. I kind of, I probably miss spoke, like I was thinking about that. It won't crush the loop, but what will just happen is it'll just be ignored because when you go to the code that goes to IPA and says give me all of the group membership. That's in this particular group. It'll just return like an MP list. And that's what we want now because so do we, I mean, if somebody creates a group in discourse, which is not in fast, so be it. It will only not get synced with anything. Yeah, that's great. That is how should it work. So yeah, it's okay. Okay. I'll see that James is asking. Sure. So I wondered, you have like backups and you can retry errors and things like that. Do you just log those? Or do you put them in any kind of monitoring thing? Just logging at the moment we have. We don't expose some default metrics, but at the moment there's nothing scraped because we don't really have a good solution for it. So we don't have, we could get them logged by the OpenShift user monitoring stack. I mean, it's already installed and ready to go. It's really trivial to get them hooked up and being captured by the OpenShift monitoring or say the user, the user workload monitoring stack, but from there basically nobody's actually viewing it. So as far as I'm aware, unless it creates an alert or something, there would be no alerting on top of it, for example. So it would just be metrics that just go into the ether. We do have some alerting for other stuff, other OpenShift apps for like crashed pods and things like that. And it triggers an alert and it does send an email, but I'm not sure if this could be hooked into that. It could be, yeah. I need to look at that. I'm actually also working, at the moment, I'm working on getting ZappX installed. So I have ZappX installed on a RL9 box and staging and I'm currently, just today, well, I managed to get the database working and I have the ZappX server hooked into it. So I'm trying to figure out now how to expose the GUI so we can actually play around with it. And there's already a whole bunch of work done on getting the ZappX agents reporting back to an instance. So I'll have to see, can I check if that's all working? But once that's done then, like I'd like to get the OpenShift stacks reporting back into the ZappX server. And then at least we'll have like one place where Infra will be able to look and see everything, you know, in place.  So it's a work in progress. There was a question by Kevin and Aurelian before. Why were you using the Fedora messaging to get the groups? I know that we had a discussion about it, but I forgot what, like, I remember the decision, but I don't remember the reasoning of the decision. So the reason, like initially I just wanted to get a system that wasn't heavily dependent or too heavily integrated with some of these other systems, just to get it over the line and delivered. So I would prefer to keep the initial system just running on this loop. I'd prefer to, like the thing that Neil's asked, or the question that Neil's asked, I'd prefer to extend it, like have a kind of reactive API. So basically extend the operator to be able to handle reactive requests. So we're going to have something like a listener hooked up to Fedora messaging. I'd like that listener then to create something like a fast discourse user object. And then the operator will take that object, find out what's the name of the user that needs to be actioned, whatever the action is, and then go do it at the end and delete that object and clean it up. I'd prefer to do it that way rather than delaying the release, the whole thing. The answer is at least. We can also reduce the 20 minutes, like from testing, I think we can reduce it down as far as one minute, but somewhere between one and five minutes. But at the moment, we just have it running on 20. So it can change, it can be changed later if it's like if the user experience is not good. But so far no complaints, right? I didn't register any. Nobody knows where to direct the complaints. Okay, and there are no more questions. I'll stop the recording.


Looking more into the details that what kind of the issues could be fails by mental health professional while using the media. While interacting with media, mental health professionals have to consider many ethical issues, like social responsibilities. This is very important to understand that we are socially responsible for whatever the content we are producing on media. Then competence. The competence level, whatever it is, should be clearly indicated. Conflict of interest, if there is any kind of conflict of interest, it should be openly declared. The public image of helping professionals. For instance, it is very important that if one public mental health professional is not going to give a good image on media, that may also harm the image of many other mental health professional. So it's a responsibility of one single person to maintain the decorum of their community on the web media. Media portrayal of mental health professional and researchers. Since today we see that a lot of public appearances are shown in different TV channels, in different public and private media sections, where psychologists, psychotherapists, and psychiatrists are invited to talk about any issues. Society clearly benefits when practitioners, educationists, social and behavioral researchers, they actively disseminate relevant information that teaches and enlightens. So it is important that we talk and bring the segments of different society on one page and discuss things from religious, social, psychological aspects so that there is a learning process in society. Yet unfortunately, some within the ranks may fail to inform responsibly or even misinform. But if there are no learners, no experts, then at times talking to them on social media forums, maybe instead of good information, it becomes a source of misinformation and a lot of young individuals, new learners, learn something that is not correct. Miss guidance can occur sometimes unintentionally when the journalist or producers add an interview or interjects in such situations, the data interpretation is frequently incorrect. Let me give you an example. So this is something which at times unknowingly giving the wrong meaning that in a question's answer, its content is not aligned. So this is something which we call out of context, which is attached to a question. Generally, we see the mimicry of politicians on social media. We catch a question somewhere else and attach the answer to something else. But this is something which at times being happened unknowingly. So there because psychology is a very sensitive subject, this kind of copy-paste material may create a very strange kind of situation in which true content keeps going. A misinformation starts going to the viewers. Miss information might be intentionally separate as well. Now we cannot undermine the aspect that misinformation will only go wrong. It can be intentional as well as authors who are also mental health experts and their publishers want to sell more books than a sober and reasons presentation of the fact would be compromised. Now if you want to make a psychological interview, a psychological phenomenon very sensational and produce it, like we are often seeing in morning shows that the content of psychology is produced in a sensational way. I was very surprised to see and you may be as well, when you see that in a morning show, in an exhaustive process, an Amil is sitting with a psychologist who is talking about how this will come out. So this is something which leads the viewers towards a very wrong image of a psychology and a psychotherapy. So we need to be very mindful in producing any such kind of the impact which basically ruined the very content and very purpose of this very discipline which is very respectable and prestigious. Distortions of psychotherapeutic diagnostic and research concepts. Now this is very important to understand that sometimes the portrayal of successful therapy in media focus on trauma and dramatic emotional breakouts in a way that grossly misinterprets the actual process. Here I would like to give you an example of movies and dramas which are different concepts of psychology, different guidelines of psychotherapy and there are a lot of abnormal behaviors in the reference of personality disorders. Basically on its impact, on its drama, on its story's sensational parts, there is a lot of focus on how the psychotherapy has actually helped to negate it. And the true symptoms are also not given at times and the diagnosis given by the help of different harsh, harsh symptoms at times is unrealistic. Legitimate research results when cited by a journalist often seem selected on the basis of curiosity or controversy rather than scientific quality or significance. So keeping the same stance, if we portray these things by giving them the isolated or minor findings like we have presented the four or five symptoms of abnormal behavior and one or two drama or movie makers put them on their own. The student of psychology would be confused to give a proper diagnosis to that case which we saw in a movie or drama. And then how a layman, a person is dealing to that case as a psychologist may also lead towards a very misinformation and towards leading a wrong conclusion. So in those cases, we really need to be very careful to provide all these things with the correct kind of evidence support so that it is a misinformation where the web readers or newsreaders should not.