Let's start right at the very beginning. Please tell us a bit about growing up Well Well, I'm actually Homegrown here. I grew up I grew up in Toronto Although I did have an opportunity to travel abroad with my family when I was young my dad worked in Britain for a Couple of times over over the over the course of his career And so I went along and kind of you know got absorbed into different school systems You know appropriately bullied, you know things like that for being the odd person out I was always a bit different. I will say I was Fortunate in my family was not a highly gendered role But pretty much this is what you see now is kind of who I've always been, you know I don't feel so I made this transformation Into leather I I you know my sister tells this used to tell the story very very An interesting fact that she shared with me was she was really jealous of me when it was a little kid She was like, oh, I've got this little sister You know, she's like on all these people are cooing and saying.   I remember having like some whores with my mother though around You know getting dressed up and going to special events and you know things like that. There was always a little bit of a You have to wear a dress today So, you know, there were some battles, but I was fortunate compared to you know, some people Who have grown up in much more gender divided worlds But growing up you struggled coming out realizing that you had gender dysphoria Please talk with us a little about that. I don't know that that's familiar to everyone Yeah, you know when you're uh, I Think it's actually thank you for asking me that question because I think you know, we it's there There are a lot of a lot of different agenda gender identities out there And I think we all you know need to Come to accept that you know, we all identified we all may identify differently Some of us are very clear some of us are very fluid. Some of us are somewhere in between the ends You know when I was a kid growing up, I thought I could grow up and be my dad You know they said you can be anything you want to be and I'm like okay, I'm with you And so you know I did things and he was he was lovely that way You know I used to stand behind him when he was shaving in the morning in a mirror He even bought me a little plastic razor that you know where the blades were removable I would stand behind him shaving, you know, I would like watch him when he's doing his boots your shoes I mean I would like You know push a little lawnmower with him So but then you know once you become a teenager It's you know all of a sudden your world changes.  I had never met a transgender person. We have tall boys and I think you know There were there were you know, there were lesbians and there were Homosexuals and it was you know like it was a bad thing to be called a lesbians school and a bad thing to be called a homo at school and You know and I was I didn't know what I was I knew that I didn't want to you know, I wasn't like Happily growing into the adult woman that I always wanted to be and so I struggled and it wasn't until you know I ran into you know that I had I had some I had some years when I wasn't happy and I Wasn't coping well and you know I think finding the communities the queer community and ultimately the leather community and being able to come out into Who I was authentically is is what what really made the difference and allowed me to start to live You know a happy and whole life and existence Well, what kind of struggles did you have do you see people even today struggling with similar topics? I Think yeah, I think today. I mean I think There's a lot more ways for people to figure them maybe I mean it's hard to figure yourself out But you know when I was coming over age or whatever that means There wasn't the online resources that there are you know, we didn't even have computers at that point You know, I did get a computer during my coming out process and and things and but back then it was bullet board chat I think now people can more more see all the variety that there is and say hey I'm that but you know, I think people still struggle because we need help we need help you know, we need to be validated and acknowledged and accepted and so I think where people still struggle is Finding where they belong being welcomed being said, you know having whatever Whatever formula they have in their head about who they are Validated and and accepted and I think that's an appropriate or that's a that's a struggle that that will always happen And you know, but I also think that we had you know as a community Well, tell us a bit about your identification as a boy and what drew you to that You know, it's funny because Part of me can say I was always this boy, right? I was always I was always a boy I was always looking for daddy that kind of said from your boy, you know Or a mentor or a top or a it didn't have to be didn't have to be a male role Just somebody in charge, you know to kind of say you're doing good You know, you that you're on the right path and stuff, you know, I just I just I need to feel as though I'm It's just it's just one of my things I like to make people happy. I like to know I'm doing a good job when I when I came into the leather community and You know, I tell you a story about that about coming in and how I found the door, but you know I got exposed to all these people like here are these real people living this kinky lifestyle that I always wanted You know, I thought I was a big ol pervert when I was like, you know when I was growing up I'm like, have you ever like tidy to your up and you know, like as a little kid and they're all going You know a couple let me do it to them. Nobody would like Let me show you And then but then they didn't want to turn around and do it to me, which is what it really is looking for It's like I'll show you how to do it now. Come on do it to me so but it didn't work out that way but then once I found this community and You know people were letting willing to let me hang around I got introduced to this this leather boy like it's like I Met somebody who identified as a leather boy. I'm like, that's it. That's what I am and I They even had a boys training camp in Texas And it was like sign me up to two friends of mine that I knew went went one year and I signed up the next year and I Went down and I met like all these these faculty that were like my fantasy of what a What what you know men and women know what what what the ideal top was for me and all these boys And we're all dressed the same and we ought to say yes sir. Yes, ma'am You know, we had to we had to like learn how to be how to be how to be good You know how to anticipate somebody else's needs. We learned how to define ourselves and and say what am I What is a leather boy and and you know, and how do we how do we belong in our community? And how do we how do we stand out and and be acknowledged and how do we protect ourselves and keep ourselves safe and and Develop this this you know this kind of boys club. It's kind of like it was kind of like the grown-up kinky version of boys gift and it was How long of a seminar was this Well, it was it was four days, but it was pretty it was pretty intense because we arrived You know in the evening we spent like 14 hours a day in this kind of Dungeon, you know space and you know, we ate there We all had to we all had to dress the same and we had this really intense sharing with people You know people coming in we had we had by Johnson come in and it was a small group It was like 20 of us and by Johnson was sharing, you know, here's here's my journey She was sharing about about her journey and and we were all listening and she was like, you know If I could do it differently, I would have done this and here's what I want to pass on to you and there was some serious sharing going on and It was like a spiritual experience So even though it was only four days we started a little Yahoo group after and we we kept each other You know like there were some boys that that, you know, didn't have a community place to belong You know, they either didn't have their own their own sirs their own mams I don't mistresses masters at home and and so we kind of set up a little community They didn't have and so they could stay in touch with with us and and at least live out You know some degree of their authenticity You know with with us as support We we kind of supported each other through difficult times through You know coming and coming's and goings of relationships and we stayed together, you know online for about five years It was it was a remarkable connection Well, what challenges have you had as a boy did anything really manifest during this four-day seminar? Um, well the challenges. Yeah, the challenges that manifested during a four-day seminar was You know, I was learning a lot about You know how how like we were learning how to be a Particular kind of boy. I mean some boys went on to just to be sort of community service members Yeah, we're happy to play that role in their community. I was more You know, I'm I play with yes dynamics. I don't play with them I live right so For those of you don't know what that is it's dominant dominance and submission and so when I'm in a relationship It's a power-based relationship and it's a mix. You know, I give up a degree I did give up my power and somebody else takes it on and we live we live that way at the time I was just learning about how to do that and I was making loads of mistakes and so As I was learning during the camp from people who were living this way and have been for years a lot of things that I You know that I hadn't learned yet. We're coming up in it You know, learning is a learning is a hard thing to do You know sometimes it involves analyzing yourself and and sometimes finding yourself falling short and Sometimes finding out what you need to do to improve And it can create a feeling of loneliness The other that the rest of the challenge of being a boy haven't come so much from that it's sort of You know being being I think for boys Sometimes I think it's being taken seriously in their community that saw you know as actual, you know as actual leadership material, you know Like You know sometimes we we see you know everybody looks to the to the big top, you know kind of dominant energy, you know master Not not to say there's any wrong with that But it's also acknowledging that you know the the sort of the the boys that are waiting for direction the boys that are saying what can I do to be of use and and you know running off and doing that and and spending their time are also a Force they they They need to be you know considered to be Part part of our leadership as well So I think that's just just getting taken seriously and that could just be my own my own feelings But I've heard other boys boys say that you know like I think but some boys have said well had a hard time You know be getting a title in my community and because people kind of said well How can you lead if you're always meeting direction? And it's like well we figure it out, you know Yeah, and so I think I'm always I'm always celebrating when I see a boy a girl a submissive a puppy If they're you know, no puppies are on the bottom side of the equation, you know that but You know when and take on roles, I think it's it's it's exciting when I see that Well, you've said that self-expression very much matters to you. How so? Well, I was what I mean by self-expression is my ability to to to be who I am without shame and That's not that's not always easy, you know, like You know being being non-normative, you know, like we don't fit in everywhere, you know I don't I don't know if anybody else here can relate to that But you know, sometimes people kind of go, you know, you're just a little bit different and and differences Sometimes make people in the wider wider world afraid Differences are our fear provoking things and I think Self-expression was something that it was really valuable coming in to you know And and it was the first place that I was ever accepted just living out loud who I am, you know I came in I was this kind of boyish looking female-bodied person that came into At the time there were leather dykes and there were there were leather men, but it was it was a lot more leather men You know in the in in this community, you know Mr. Leatherman, Toronto currently hard of the flag and it was like, you know, come on in we'll find a place for you and Being accepted Self-expression is where else in the world? Can you can you live as the puppy? You've always told you are Can you be the the daddy? the mommy the Master that that you've always felt you are Be the boy be the girl, you know like and and live that um and We may not understand all of each other's Proclivities or or you know preferences and and your how you choose to live your life May not always make sense to to me But if you're not if it's not abusing me or or violating me in any way, I really Think it's I really think it's important that we're all able to express ourselves and Live live out who we are and this is a perfect community and that's what for that one It's not perfect, but I mean this is this is an ideal world for that to happen in Well in in building on that a little bit. What does mentoring mean to you and how were you mentored? You know Yeah, mentor mentorship. Wow. That's huge And it's it's really key to who we are as as a community I Mean you can't get everything online, you know, that's where you know, I mean, I think that young You know the younger leather people coming in or or or kinky people or gear people or however People are defining when they find their way into our community They can meet each other can find all their their you know what they need and and you know gear and Practices and safety tips and things online, but mentorship is something more mentorship is It's how the generations connect How we can all you know share Our community so when you're when you're new and it's not always age Some people find their way into the community later and still are in need of mentorship Mentoring can be formal You know, there's roles that are built into our community that are mentor type roles title holders title holders are Sometimes the first pole portal that somebody sees into a world. That's how I find my way in found my way in I was standing watching the pride parade and I saw I saw some hot leather dikes on a float and I was like They're organized Somebody was getting their back with them. I I basically stalked them After the parade I hate to admit that but why not tell tell them tell them I was like, you know How do I meet these people? So I just kind of follow them around and watch them in bar I said what bars didn't get to what clubs and what events and finally I got up enough nerve to talk of one of them And you know, that's that that's one form of mentorship yet, you know Title holders are there as the first welcome and come on in and let me introduce you to people Mentors are people who set up I've been meant. I'm a loop black. I've been mentored Amazingly as a group like here, you know, we've got blacks and mentored so many to blacks here And our our our community our patron of the black community is is one of the best examples of mentorship You know, here are just skills you need, you know, not to not to wreck somebody's $500 leather boots Here are the You know, here is how you handle it if you're boot blacking in a in a bar and somebody starts opening their fly and pulling their You know jockstrap, you know jockstrap aside, and you're like That's not part of my service Mentors can tell you how to handle situations like that So, you know, it's and then mentors are you know, there's there's these community groups all over that Yeah, that provide mentoring or it can just be one-on-one. It can be you know what? Hey, you look new Let me teach you How to survive in here we pass along the values of our community through mentorship, you know, and what's important It's not just a you know, it's not just a quick way to get off We're here. We're living here. We're living our lives out here, and I think mentorship is a key part of that It's our family. It's how we build it's how we build love and family into into into our connections here You brought up boot blacking. Tell us a little bit about that because that's very it's a very important piece of who you are and what you do Yeah, yeah, boot blacking is is a huge part of what I what I do. Um, I Always I don't know what I like.  My sexy answer is My sexy answer is what better way to wait way to meet hot sexy people wearing Wearing boots than on your knees in the back of a dark bar And and it's true because I was a bit of a shy boy When people say how did you get into what what drew you to boot blacking? I mean well the first one is well boots, right? Streaming to boot blacking. I love it. I think they're just amazing. Um, the other thing was watching, you know, I remember seeing black and you know and What were they the marine shorts The marine boxers used to wear and I watched I watched him doing doing people's boots and the textures and the smells and The connection that I saw happening Not to mention the opportunity to care for some of the hottest boots I've ever seen That drew me in. Um, it was also a good way for me to feel useful Because as I said, I'm a boy. I like to feel useful I'm a leather boy that is and uh, that's how I identify that's that's what I need to make me tick is to feel useful to feel To feel that I'm being of service And you know, whether I had whether whether I had a relationship going on a surface-based relationship at that time or not Boot blacking was always a good way for me to to to find that and to raise money for really important causes You know, it's really, you know, I mean Leathermen tip well when you're when you're when you're raising money for a good cause, you know We saw that last night at the auction how we all came together and when it and a good cause, you know boot blacking is a great way to to do that and um You know, so that is I was talking again last night with somebody about the unique In a unique experience of connecting to somebody through the act of doing your boots. Um Boot blacking is uh, is like a is a uh an activity where gender doesn't matter so much A lot of people kind of go really, uh, I don't know and I've met some of those people at during my title year I have a boot black Toronto Six I was boot blacking after a mr. Leatherman Toronto event and At the black eagle and now we're a couple of British guys who sat in my chair and they said this is funny He said we've never had a you know, they've you know during conversation. They realized that I was I was a female body masculine presenting person and they said I've never had a female touching my boots And so I got a little chance to to explain to them, you know a little bit about my gender and I and then I Got a chance to say, you know what try I'm not having sex with you here I can have a really sensual experience with you here. I said try and suspend. I said like just try and suspend your your uh your focus on gender and try to imagine me as Whatever whatever kind of energy you want to be blacking your boots and Wow, I gave and and he did and I And then I went into him and we started to talk about Where did you get these boots? How long have you had them? Why did you pick these boots and then we talked about where have you worn them? what experiences have you had in them and You know and I was explaining what products I was putting on them and I was showing them How how you could put it on with love and and care and and I think I was with them for like an hour When we just kept kept going, you know like and um So and even if it hadn't and we got some sensuality going on and he just and Even if it hadn't he got up from that chair and he can walk away and say, you know what? I feel so my leather has been loved and you know leather in our community has a lot of history It gets passed down People have a story to be the guardian of that to get a chance to help people care for their leather and And help them look good in it is a real privilege Absolutely And a real a real thing that A real bond you can share with somebody whether it's purely technical where you're where you're explaining every little thing Movement you're doing or whether you're licking their boots and using yourself as furniture You know, it's all a way to connect But what's been your greatest service accomplishment? um I don't know that's hard to say because service i've done different things, you know service service to me is Service is how we express love in our community. You know, I for me like service is how I express love um I've been I've been a title holder and I felt really proud Of you know, just being there for my community at the end of the year, you know pumping out as part of the team um You know learning the lessons that that I learned, you know with I wasn't always comfortable on a mic and you know the first the first The first time I had a title I I had this big muscle guy. It was mr. Black Eagle as my thing and as my partner.  It was my greatest challenge. Okay, um But you know also being invisible being invisible as Somebody in the back the backup, you know, like being the gopher at an event, you know Where where whenever thing anything falls apart your your response will make sure the flip chart gets to that room and The valuations get handed in and oh my god. There's no power on the third floor. It's your job. You're you know And that is a huge huge accomplishment and it's not it's invisible and and And that's you know, like but I know that when I'm in that role it's it's love right and that's an accomplishment and then there's you know being in service to you know, uh My my ma'am or my sir I've had both um and currently do and uh, that's great and and you know, just just being somebody that they trust and rely on and and finding my way to say I love you through performing services for them for anticipating their needs for Putting their needs ahead of mine. So I'm sorry often, you know as often as I've been That's pretty heavy. I don't even know where to go with the next question after that But I do want to ask you about being one of the founders of the Toronto boys of leather Please tell us a little bit about that I uh And and It's true because I was a bit of a shy boy. Um When people say, how did you get into what what drew you to boot blacking? I mean, well the first one is well boots, right? Boots drew me to boot blacking. I love boots. I think they're just amazing. Um, the other thing was watching, you know I remember seeing black and you know and and uh What were they the marine choice? The marine boxers used to wear and I watched I watched him doing doing people's boots and the textures and the smells and The connection that I saw happening Not to mention the the opportunity to care for some of the hottest boots I've ever seen. Um, that drew me in It was also a good way for me to feel useful Because as I said, I'm a boy. I like to feel useful. Um on the leather boy that is and uh That's how I identify that's that's what I need to make me tick is to feel useful. Um to feel To feel that I'm being of service. Um, and you know, whether I had Whether whether I had a relationship going on a surface-based relationship at that time or not Boot blacking was always a good way for me to To to find that and to raise money for really important causes. You know, it's really, you know, I mean Leatherman temp well when you're when you're when you're raising money for a good cause, you know We saw that last night of yachts and how we all came together and when in a good cause, you know boot blacking is a great way to to do that and um You know, so then I was talking again last night with somebody about the unique You know unique experience of connecting to somebody through the act of doing her boots. Um boot blacking is Is it uh an activity where gender doesn't matter so much a lot of people kind of go really? I don't know and I've met some of those people at during my title year as a boot black Toronto 2006, um, I was boot blacking after a mr. Leatherman Toronto event and At the black eagle and now we're a couple of british guys who sat in my chair and they said this is funny He said we've never had a you know, they've you know during the conversation I realized that I was I was a female body masculine presenting person And they said I've never had a a female touching my boots and so I got a little chance to to explain to them You know a little about my gender and I and then I I got a chance to say, you know what try i'm not having sex with you here I can have a really sensual experience with you here. I said try and suspend I said like just try and suspend your Your Your focus on gender and try to imagine me as Whatever whatever kind of energy you want to be blacking your boots and Wow, I gave and and he did and I and then I went into him and we started to talk about Where did you get these boots? How long have you had them? Why did you pick these boots and then we talked about where have you worn them? What experiences have you had and you know, and I was explaining what products I was putting on them and I was showing them How how you could put it on with love and and care and I think I was with him for like an hour When we just kept kept going, you know like and so and even if it hadn't and we got some sensuality going on and he just and Even if it hadn't he got up from that chair and he can walk away and say, you know what? I feel so my leather has been loved and you know Leather in our community has a lot of history. It gets passed down People have a story to be the guardian of that to get a chance to help people care for their leather and And help them look good in it is a real privilege absolutely And a real a real thing that A real bond you can share with somebody whether it's purely technical where you're where you're explaining every little thing Movement you're doing or whether you're licking their boots and using yourself as furniture You know, it's all a way to connect What's been your greatest service accomplishment? um I don't know that's hard to say service I've done different things, you know service service to me is Service is how we express love in our community, you know For me like service is how I express love I've been I've been a title holder and I felt really proud Of you know, just being there for my community at the end of the year, you know pumping out as part of the team You know learning the lessons that that I learned, you know with I wasn't always comfortable on a mic and you know the first the first The first time I had a title I I I had this big muscle guy who was mr. Black Eagle as my thing and as my partner. I'm like this is your sash And he said be here on saturday I'm hosting an event and then he shoved the mic into my hand and said get up there And that was like the buyer was fully guys like I there was not one face I knew there and I got up there and did that and so You know like being proud of your accomplishments and learning how to connect and and that But service I wouldn't call that my greatest accomplishment. It was my greatest challenge. Okay You know also being invisible being invisible as somebody in the back the back up, you know Like being the gopher at an event, you know where where whenever thing anything falls apart You're you're responsible to make sure the flip chart gets to that room and the valuations get handed in and oh my god There's no power on the third floor. It's your job. You're you know And that is a huge huge accomplishment and it's not it's invisible and And and that's you know, like but I know that when I'm in that role It's it's love right and that's an accomplishment And then there's you know being in service to you know My my ma'am or my sir I've had both And currently do and That's great. And and you know just just being somebody that they trust and rely on and and Finding my way to say I love you through Through performing services for them for anticipating their needs for Putting their needs ahead of mine. So I'm sorry often, you know, as often as I've been in there That's pretty heavy. I don't even know where to go with the next question after that But I do want to ask you about being one of the founders of the Toronto Boys of Leather Please tell us a little bit about that I uh The Toronto Boys of Leather. I'm unfortunately, it's not going right now. I'll kind of go into that a little bit, but When I first discovered the boy identity and I went to boys training camps and and I just got electrified You know by all the events going on here In the states I traveled I traveled to a lot of events in the states where they had a really Really solid boy community built up already and I met other cities where they had had The boys of leather and they had their own flag and it was like oh, wow, you know it was like that whole kind of boys kids thing that I liked and You know and the girls of leather also came came came up during that time as well, which was lovely We we didn't uh, we called ourselves the Toronto Boys of Leather and then opened our group up to Anybody who identified as a boy or a girl or a puppy or a we tried that I mean, it's hard to be inclusive And you know, we it's always a challenge to to hammer through all the all the language and all the rules that make us make our communities inclusive and And and also in line with identities. Um, I don't think we did that perfectly. Um, I'm actually I know we didn't However, what we did do is we um, I saw these clubs in the states having places for for Boys to come together that may not have daddies that wanted to be of service to each other that To their community that wanted to teach each other stuff and um, and so we got We We took on a membership. There were some girls. There were some boys. There was a couple of puppies There were some switchy people and we we we had you know, workshops little workshops for each other We we tried to go out and do fun things together We we volunteered when when the leather community was having an event We we we found ways to be of service and um, we had we had our own identity We had a patch. We had a we have a t-shirt and it was it was a good time We kind of people moved on from it and it's as I said, there's a lot of work to be done in Expanding your criteria to be more inclusive and and inclusive to of Of different identities so that people feel welcome. So I think uh, I think Around that time that we were trying to do that. We just did we just kind of lost the energy People were getting tired. They were getting more jobs. They kind of I I'd always be happy if anybody wanted to revive that and you know And and talk to talk to those of us who were there at the time we can we can You know sort of share some of our experiences and how how, you know, the pitfalls and and the gifts of that But it was it was a fun time. I gotta say If you could go back in time And revisit any part of your leather journey And change anything What would you choose to change and why? Oh That's a hard question to answer. Um Well, I'll tell you I would have found it a lot sooner If I could change I would have I would have come in here You know if this if I'd have found if I'd have found you guys when I was a teenager I'll I'll maybe I'm gonna have to wait till I was the eagle Um If I'd have found the community then that I would change that I would change getting involved earlier I don't think I don't think that I would change a lot though even like harder experiences I you know when I was You know, I've learned a lot through error and through, you know Bad emotional reactions, whatever all kinds of stuff I've learned. Um, I I have some regrets But I don't think I change it, you know, just just being I don't know being sort of You know learning to be Um learning to not be so I don't know say defensive or learning not to take take feedback So personally or you know things like that. That's a very personal thing that I would change Um, I would I would learn to to recognize the gifts that people are giving me when they're giving me feedback Um, let's see. What else? So I wasn't going to say that. Um, let me see now. Um Another thing is is that I would remember that this community isn't you know, I think when I was struggling Like I had some personal times in my life when I was losing stuff big time, you know, like You know deaths and changes and stuff like that You know at that time I thought You know the community is a place where everybody wants to have fun. We're all about hey, nice to see you Let's get sexy together. Let's get you know, whatever like I know I'm being really clear about that It's not how it really is But you know, sometimes you feel when you show up at our events that you have to be on you have to be happy and you know what This is our lives are happening and we're living and we're each other's We're each other's this isn't some kind of alternative reality This is reality And I think what I would do differently is when I was struggling and feeling As though I were as though I wasn't fun enough to show up I think I may have isolated myself a little bit and I think what I would do differently in that time is Reach out be me, you know trust Trust the love that I know that is in this community to to to connect with and you know and keep keep me going through through the struggle some You know, we we stand we work together. We we we see We're not just here for the good times. We're here for bad times too and you know Our community has faced things like the the AIDS epidemic, you know our community You know, I wasn't around I wasn't part of the levit community that At that time, but I've heard How how how a heart it was and how much pain there was and how How tempting it must have been to just check out, but you know, but nobody was there We're there for each other I need to to remember the spirits of the people who who went through those times and and And when I'm going through my own hard time or when we're looking at queer people We're talking about rainbow railroad We need to stand together and and recognize that we're we're as misfit as outsiders as we are here We're very privileged and just to stand together and and be and be the force that we are to connecting and and And defend and protect and heal each other Wow Absolutely So I'll I'll finish with one final question and that is What's the biggest misconception about you? I don't know I don't know. I'd have to know what people are conceiving about me I don't know. I think I think I think it was just I had to I I don't think I think like misconceptions about me probably came from me No from anybody else, you know, I was I was thinking, you know My friend Nancy was You know, she laughs about the time when I used to go to the leather dive parties of the leather women party The queer parties or all the parties that she had and I used to think that my only role was to get up and do dishes And and and serve and that I wasn't useful in the community I wasn't part of the community unless I was I was doing something like boyish for somebody and And she she put put me in there and she stuck me in the in a table and wouldn't let me get up For the rest of the evening and I felt so useless and I was like everybody's gonna think I'm like like, you know I'm not you.  We're we're we're people. We're valuable. We're we're not a set of skills and services. We're we're Hello people that are loving beings deserving of of the connections that we have that so I know that it's not really answering your question No, it does it does misconceptions or whatever you want them to be Ah Everybody boy, Alex


Hello everybody and welcome back to another video. Today we're going to be taking a first look at Google's new Advanced Data Analytics Professional Certificate on Coursera. Now this course was just launched on April 6th so it is super, super new, but it's meant to be the more advanced version of the original Google Data Analytics Professional Certificate that they launched I think about two or three years ago. The first Google certification that they put out for Data Analytics was just massive. I mean millions of people took it. I took it myself. I know a lot of other people were posting on LinkedIn and Twitter and Instagram saying that they had just completed it. It was really, really big. Hopefully this course will be even better as it's going to be going more advanced into a lot of these topics and we're going to take a look at a lot of those things today. So in this video we're just going to be taking an initial look at the certification, looking at all the things that they teach and how they teach it. At the very end we'll talk about timeframes, the cost and if I think it is actually worth taking. But before we jump into actually looking at these certification I want to give a huge shout out to the sponsor of this video and that is Coursera. Coursera has been one of my favorite platforms to learn data analytics. I have taken hundreds of their courses and they have been absolutely fantastic. If you have not checked out their platform yet I highly recommend it. I will leave links in the description to not only this certification but just Coursera as a whole because they are absolutely fantastic. So huge shout out to Coursera for sponsoring this video.  So with that being said let's jump into the certification and take a look. All right so really quickly we're just going to take a look at the landing page and then we'll kind of dive into the actual content of the certification. So this is what it looks like. We have the Google advanced data analytics professional certificate. You can start enrolling for it for free. Right now you can go and start taking it. Now if you want to take the entire certification you have to pay for it. I'm pretty sure if we click this you know you get like a free trial essentially. So let's scroll down really quickly it does say six months. Now we'll talk about that at the very end more but it does say it's going to take about six months if you study under 10 hours per week. Now let's scroll down because here's some of the skills that you're going to gain. Data science, regression models, predictive modeling, exploratory data analysis, Python, Jupyter notebooks, Tableau. Now all these are just the keywords but I'm going to tell you right now this is extremely heavily Python focused. I mean 90% of the course is on Python which I'm super excited about. I love Python. I wish they put Python in the original one and they didn't they put R and I was kind of a little bit butthurt about that and I think they really really listened to me on this because 90% of this course is Python. I will say this looks like a direct competitor to the IBM data analyst professional certificate here on Coursera which is very heavily Python focused. So again something I'll discuss more at the end but I was super excited when I saw that almost everything in here is Python and this is the advanced course so our got the beginner course Python got the advanced course. So let's keep scrolling down. Let's take a look at the different courses in the certification and then we'll dive into each of them very briefly on what they're going to cover in these courses. So for course one we have foundations of data science then course two is get started with Python. Course three is go beyond the numbers, translate data into insights. Course four is power of statistics. Course five regression analysis simplifying complex data relationships. Course six is the nuts and bolts of machine learning and then of course course seven is the Google advanced data analytics capstone. So that's a lot of stuff and it's all very heavily focused on Python. There is a little tab low and we'll take a look at that in a little bit as well but let's dive into these courses. I'm just going to briefly talk about what you're going to learn in each one. So the first course is foundations of data science. This course is very much just an introduction to data as a whole. What is data analysis? What do data professionals do? What skills do they need to learn? And it kind of flushes out. Here's what you're going to learn in this course as well. I definitely don't think this is anything too advanced in this first course. It's just introductions really but let's move on to the second course. The second course is get started with Python. In this course you're going to learn the basics of Python. You're going to learn about data types and for loops and functions and all these other things are kind of the fundamental basics of Python. As you're watching the videos they also have some reading materials and then they have labs where you actually go in and you practice writing out the code and they do this with an integration of Jupyter notebooks. I personally enjoy that Jupyter notebooks guideline because it really spells everything out for you. So even if you're a beginner you can still kind of follow along with this course because again it's really starting from the basics but hopefully in the next couple courses it'll ramp up to more of the advanced things. But let's go ahead and take a look at course number three. Course number three is go beyond the numbers translate data into insights. Now this is where I think things start to really pick up because it goes a little bit more advanced than just the basics. You start to get into exploratory data analysis. You start to look at how to handle missing data and bad data formatting so this is part of the data cleaning process and then you start taking all of those things and visualizing them in Tableau. Now let's look at course number four which is the power of statistics. Now this course really surprised me because I've taken a lot of courses on these statistics and data analysis but this one actually covered a few different topics that I haven't really learned before so I even started watching them and kind of learning from that and I was like ah that's really really interesting. So this course I think actually does a really good job of going in depth into the statistical side of data analysis. You're going to learn things like descriptive statistics, conditional probability, sampling, distributions, confidence intervals, hypothesis testing and more. Throughout this course there's a lot of videos, quizzes, labs, there's just a lot of things that I really liked about this course in particular so so far this is my favorite course out of the whole certification as a whole. Course number five is regression analysis, simplify, complex data relationships. Now it seems like this course went more in depth into regression analysis than other courses that I've taken in the past. I'm really happy to see that because this is an advanced course this shouldn't just be the basics or the beginner level stuff this definitely goes more in depth than just the surface level. The one thing that they go really in depth on is linear regression. Linear regression is super popular so they go really in depth into linear regression. Of course all of this is done in Python. They also talk about multiple linear regression, variable selection and model evaluation. They talk about hypothesis testing and they also go pretty in depth into logistic regression as well. Next in course six they have the nuts and bolts of machine learning. Now I have nothing against machine learning in fact I've taken lots of machine learning courses I think it's really fascinating, super interesting but I don't really understand why they included it in the advanced data analytics. I think sometimes there's a crossover where there just doesn't need to be. For the most part data analysts are never going to use machine learning. There are some instances where you work with data scientists or you're at a small company and you're just expected to do a little bit of everything but I don't think that this needed to be in here although it's not bad to have. The course goes into exactly what you think would be in this course. It's the basics of machine learning. It talks about what machine learning is, the ethics of machine learning and then just the basics of how to actually do that in Python. Now I will say that even though it is the basics it does touch on some more advanced concepts. It talks about fine-tuning hyperparameters. It also talks about feature engineering, unsupervised learning and then it also talks about a concept that I haven't heard before called bagging. I think I'm going to go through that one because I've never heard of that before but it looks like it's related to random forests but I'll need to watch and see. Lastly in course seven we have the Google advanced data analytics capstone. Now this is just the final project of the entire course. Throughout the course you're doing these smaller projects and then at the end you're doing one bigger project. They also talk about other things as well like building your resume and they have a whole workshop on how to do that and they also talk about preparing for interviews and building a portfolio. So all the kind of really relevant things as you finalize this entire project. The final project says it is providing data-driven suggestions for HR. So it looks like you're going to be given an HR data set. You're going to actually bring in the data and load the data, do some initial exploratory data analysis and data cleaning and then really dive into the exploratory data analysis phase. After that looks like you're going to be visualizing the data and then you'll be building a machine learning model at the very end. So now that we've taken a look at everything let's just kind of take a breather and just talk about the course and see if it's worth it. Look at time frames, the cost and just general thoughts on whether or not it's worth taking. So the time frame says six months to complete. I think a lot of people found that when they were doing the initial Google data analytics professional certificate that it took a lot less time usually like two to three months. That's what most people were saying. I think that this is going to be about that same time frame if you keep a steady learning pace. So now let's go back and look at the price. After that seven day free trial it's going to cost 39 US dollars per month. Now if it takes you three months and you're paying about 40 dollars per month it's going to be about 120 dollars total. And it even says right here go as fast as you can. The faster you go the more you save. So if you do it in two months or if you do it in one month you're going to save money just by going faster and completing it quicker. So now let's talk about my initial thoughts on the course. First off I absolutely love that it has Python. In fact I kind of wish that this one was the first certification that they had put out because it is just really really good. I understand that there's a lot more advanced concepts it goes more in depth into things and the first certification that they did kind of laid the groundwork for data analysis. You know it covered Google Sheets and Tableau and R and SQL and all those other things which I think is great. But this course just seems like it's going so much more in depth than the first one which again it makes sense that was kind of the beginner the basics and this is the more advanced course but I wish they had gone this in depth in the beginners course if that makes sense. So my initial rating after really reviewing a lot of the materials that they're doing everything that they are teaching in this course my initial rating is a 9 out of 10. If you're wanting to learn Python this could be a 10 out of 10. I mean genuinely it's like 90% Python. I really do compare it to the IBM data analyst professional certificate it's very similar although everything that I've seen in here looks much more new much more updated and kind of fresh whereas the IBM data analyst one was made like five six years ago I can't remember I took it myself like four or five years ago and even then it had a few things that were a little out of date. This seems very much fresh very new updated it seems very well made. Now I'm going to be taking this one myself I'll probably make a follow-up video in about two months or so after I've completed almost all of it and just give my more final thoughts on what I think but my initial thoughts about it looks super good it looks like it goes really in depth which is what I like I don't like kind of doing the surface level stuff but you kind of have to start somewhere and they're kind of trying to pair it with the initial certification that kind of lays that groundwork it gives you the basics and I think for what it's worth that course is still really good for people who are just getting into data analytics whereas this one looks like it goes a lot more in depth covers a lot more complex topics so with that being said that is the Google advanced data analytics professional certificate I hope that this was helpful if you end up taking it be sure to comment below your thoughts and your impressions as well hopefully they align with mine because I'm super optimistic about it but hopefully it's just as good as it looks if you want to check out this course I will leave a link in the description thank you guys so much for watching I really appreciate it if you like this video be sure to like and subscribe below and I'll see you in the next video


Welcome. This is Docs Office Hours. It's the 20th of June, 20th of May, 2022. This is Asia Office Hours. Thanks for joining. Top topics I had are disabling the Docs mailing list. Switch to community.jankins.io. This is a topic from governance, localization. Localization and internationalization progress report, something we discussed in Europe Office Hours, 12 or so hours ago. June LTS change log, the required Java 11 Epic and its timeline. Sheikot Africa contributon and then outdated pull requests. If you will be pleased to note last meeting, we closed some outdated pull requests on jankins.io. Not many, but we closed a few. Any other topics you want to put on the agenda. Okay, then let's go ahead. So this next this one, the first one is one that needs some some quick conversation so we use. This is a mailing list on Google groups, and it's a very infrequent to use mailing list for docs. I suspect most people do not read it. As an example, we had a post from Basil Crow. The preceding post was four days ago, so it's maybe on average, one post a month, maybe two posts a month is all and not a lot of response to it most posts have no response whatsoever. So given that we're not getting responses there, and it sort of fractures where we're communicating the proposal is let's move or move let's switch and use community at jankins.io and put things under the sick docs category or sick docs label. Like these items are. What we do is declare the docs mailing list, still available as content but switch it to read only so it would not accept new posts, I may put I would put one email message there which says this, this mailing list has stopped, and it's being pointed to this tag in in jankins.io. So Meg and Kristen would you be okay with that I assume that for you this mailing list is not a crucial source of information, etc. Yeah I'm cool with that I'm yeah really looked at the mailing list. Right. And that's that's most of us truthfully. I pay more attention to either, like, definitely get her first, and then the, then the community jankins.io just because, at least with the getter I can usually if I'm have my tabs open I can see if there's a notification so it's a little bit easier sometimes to me to do it, then, you know, clicking into the community jankins.io so having reducing the number of places where we set the easier for everyone I think. Okay, so, so that that works well for me that gives gives me a chance. Meg are you okay with the idea then as well we'll we'll plan to shut down jankins documentation as a mailing list, and direct people towards posts there on community jankins.io. And I'm going to assume silence means yes Meg. I'm muted noted means I coughed and muted and didn't unmute yes, it was it was I agree totally that makes total sense. Great. All right. And we had we I missed having the having the conversation during Europe office office hours but I'd had the conversation with the governing board. It was prior and it had several of the attendees Bruno and Basel were already in attendance at the governance board so I think we've got, we've got more than enough people agreed that we'll do that. Good. Anything else on the docs mailing list topic. Okay, so next topic is localization internationalization the crowd in project that we've started crowd in jankins.io now has eight plugins on it. So, and we've got French localizations. Submitted by Bruno for all eight and easy and pull requests submitted for those localization so really positive. Now what we've got upcoming is Mark and Darren will host a live stream will do a live stream live stream on internationalizing Jenkins plugins. This will be the sixth in the, what do we call it modernizing a Jenkins plugin video series. And this will be then be will be embedded eventually on www.jankins.io. Any questions or concerns there. Now one of the one of the topics that we noted in in the Europe office hours today was, we've got a challenge here that we would really like it if we could use language translation as a hacktoberfest contribution. It's cool it worked very nicely last year when Duchess France, a group of women open source contributors in France contributed several localization improvements, however, the system submits the pull requests as a bot, rather than submitting them as the person who did the translation or the proofreading. And so, I've got to check with our leader there Alex Brandis to see if there's some way to switch that for the period of hacktoberfest so that the pull requests are submitted by the by the translator. As though they were the transfer I'm not sure it's possible because it may require credentials that crowd and actually does not have. I think the previous one. What exactly do you mean by embedding this in in Jenkins IO. The instructor, the video and the instructions I'm sorry. Oh yeah good good question so what I mean is something like this. Let's show an example so on Jenkins.io we have a number of places where something is described. We found that Darren had created a video, and we use Darren's video by placing it on the page like this. Okay, um, where I don't know where is that you were doing massive work on pipeline development documentation at one point what is the status of that. Yeah, so that that pull request is stale right now. It still exists as a pull request but it's still draft and not really ready, not ready to merge because I've, I've not made and not had time to make progress on it it's this pull request right here number 4806. There is a number of videos embedded in it and you see a whole bunch of comments there on what with Jesse Glick saying wow this is a lot only to have some time to go over it. Yeah, do we, is there a section on internationalization is my question. Not yet, there will be. Well I don't know is that going to be another thing that we have to, it's going to make it even harder to be able to get a review. Well, it doesn't have to go into this section, ultimately, we can, we can, we can declare this thing done right now. I'm not ready to say this is done because the development work that I want to do is not done. Okay, and I've actually got authority to all after I suspect I'll have to do is tell, tell Gavin mogen here Hawkeye. Give me an approval. He says yes and I'll merge it. Okay, the problem is it's not ready because I'm not ready to have it have it reviewed yet I don't mind if Jesse if Jesse finds problems with it later we'll just fix them. Yeah, that's yeah that's true I was like oh no I didn't want to turn it into oh I just reviewed everything now I got a review. No, no, no. That's definitely not not the case. Everybody even if there's pieces or, I mean, the old the existing docs it has how so many really important sections that just say this needs to be written up. Yes. And why you know the stuff that isn't ready or even say this has not been reviewed, or this work in progress or construction and and we don't even have to do those this this material I'm perfectly comfortable saying hey, I tested it, it's not a work in progress. Yeah, in the sense that I've checked that these steps work for me. And if someone else finds a problem they can report a bug. So now we do have instructions right now on how to do internationalization so we've got instructions that tell you how to internationalize Java source code and jelly views and groovy views. However, I disagree with or find them in find found them inadequate personally, because they use a technique that is not conducive to crowd in. Okay, and I think it's much better. If we teach people, if you'll do this, your life is easier as a Java developer. And our life is easier because translators life is easier because they get to use crowd in instead of having to create a handcraft, all the property files themselves. Right. What is going to happen. Long term once, let's say we get everything internationalized what we do but let's say something has been internationalized, and then there's significant updates to it. So it's easy to go in and just internationalize the new parts or review everything and do that or. Yeah, I think I think it isn't localized or I think the crowd and has a facility that will tell you that an upstream and original string will change, and it will then invalidate the downstream translation I haven't tested it but it's a good question let me make a note to myself to be sure that we test that workflow because I'm pretty sure we've had an exact example of that. And we forget, there's a future here. Right good idea so that the that crowd in, certainly the current tooling without crowd in, make it very very difficult to detect that problem detects changes in the base string, and invalidates the, or requests, a new translation of the revised passage. I used to work with this fellow I really like to really respected him and he was really big on having tests for everything. Is there any possibility of pulling, making crowd in part of the CI process. When one merges something that it would flag up and say hey there's stuff here that hasn't been localized. That would be really helpful already happens. So, so let's let's well maybe what I can show you is let's look at at a plugin that has is now part of crowd in. So here's this crowd in this crowd in enabled plug in elastic axis. Okay, and what happened was when new strings arrived when new strings became visible. They were made visible in crowd in, and then crowd in receive translation proposal from in this case from Alex Brandes in German. He proposed hey, here's the translation. And when you say crowd in, did crowd in on its own without Alex saying hey, would you check this. On its own just popped up and said hey, it did that's correct so every every 12 hours crowd in checks for new changes in GitHub. Oh, so it's, it looks like this. Here we go what we'll bring it up and get to look at it so for me here are these here are these projects, and the plug plug in we were just looking at it on Jenkins is this elastic axis plugin. And so it says hey, it's been translated to Chinese simplified Chinese traditional French, and a portion of the German and some of the Italian so I don't know if I don't know. So yes, that was me who did the Italian know it's not really good Italian. So, so this gives hints and so you see who's involved so this is Alex that's Bruno. This is Chris Stern in in Hong Kong. Very nice. Yeah, it's actually quite a quite a comfortable user interface now. Now it's, it's still, we would love many many more. We're still in the early adoption phase. But for instance, put Jenkins core on there yet we think there is much more work that we can do in plugins to become comfortable with it familiar with it. Before we do something massive like Jenkins core, or even like the get plug in or the get client plug in that are high volume plugins we want to be sure that these lower volume somewhat safe plugins are easy to do, and work well before we go with big high volume plugins that are used frequently. Right. Did that answer your question. It did. And I'm so impressed. Yeah, so, so back to your thing on detecting changes in the base string. We just had an episode had a case in Jenkins core. Not crowded and able jet but in Jenkins core where a string, a translated string had been updated, but the translations had not been invalidated. And because of that local localized users receiving bad information. So the case was, we're announcing the end of Java eight support. We changed the date. The date to June 20 June 21. But the problem is the localized versions still said the old date. And, and so we corrected that by deleting the, by deleting the translations. Okay. So that they'll now show German or show English language again.  Oh translated string. Thank you. Thanks. Everybody's copy editor. That's great. Okay, so anything else on localization I hadn't actually intended to spend so much time on it. Okay, LTS changelog has been has been created by Kevin Martins. He and I paired up to do it. It needs needs review. And needs needs a blog post announcing the major major changes that are included in the June, June LTS. He's working on the blog post yeah. Anything else on that changelog. Nope. Okay, next is the required Java 11 epic. So, so beginning June 21 Jenkins will stop delivering a Java eight, a Java eight based Jenkins, we will switch to Java 11. And then in September. We will do the same change in the long term support release.  A bunch of work happening in, for instance, various sub projects of this thing, like the jacksby one that there are there are plenty of things that still work is going on. And we feel like it's, it's reaching the point where we've been running on Java 11 for, I think over two years. It's time now for us to switch off Java eight and be able to use Java 11 features natively. Wonderful. Yeah, any questions there makes me feel old I remember the hack, the hackathon where your guys were just starting to play with implementing Java 11. Yes, yeah, well and and there's, there's a that that transition fails about like this one does in terms of finding things that have changed, and making sure that we can safely make this transition for our users. So an awful lot of work going into making Java 11 work successfully. Yeah. All right. Nothing else on Java 11 she code Africa contribute on is now in the reporting phase. So that means three projects inclusive naming pipeline held and screenshot update. And so the, the seven women oh and project management. The seven women involved in the project will be posting their, their final reports to community dot Jenkins.io. And that will look like this. So if we look for she code Africa. What we see here is, for instance, this is from peace, okay for. And she posted introduction summary of the camp. Good story told problem she encountered and things she learned from the experience and what we should do better next time. And that's exactly what we were hoping for very nicely done and have, have suggested that the other new contributors do the same. That's really it for what I had there so sample. So in terms of which projects work well the screenshot update and the inclusive naming went quite well pipeline help was a struggle but the two contributors there have found some new things that they taught me. And, and have been contributing as well. So, like the fact that it's not just us teaching them they're rather helping us learn more things and see how to do things more effectively. That's fabulous. It is really pleased. Any other topics that we want to talk today, we've got outdated pull requests and we could spend the rest of our time together on on outdated pull requests. Okay, I have to leave in about 10 minutes but we can do 10 minutes and. Okay, guys can continue or get a 20 minute break. Well, and I'm fine if we if we say hey we're done I'm happy to look at, I think Kristen you and I had a really good experience the last time we did this, you want to try it again. Yeah, sure. Let's do it. Okay. So, this is truly group exercise trying to decode which of these long ago pull requests should remain open. Right. And so, last time we were able to successfully close. Okay, here's, here's, here's one that I cannot close because I'm actively working on it. Okay, there we go. Next one the next one up from June of 2020. Documentation firm environment when with comparator. This is conditioned on this this pull request being merged. And it, it hasn't been merged. And it has conflicts now so I think we could safely close this one. We're doing so was that soft was that we get software documentation for it. We have, we have a pull request that it's not been merged. And because it's not been merged and the pull request is now two years old. But is, is why is this not I want to know why this hasn't been merged me should it have been merged or is it. I think it's because the maintainers are not ready to review it. It's just a plugin feature request. And, and that's from 2019, it's even older. Right late, late 2019 this is Victor Martinez, who submitted it and, and I think it's a very reasonable thing but until this is until this thing is merged, there is no reason for us to leave that thing open. We're not going to propose we close it. It doesn't, it doesn't get lost. It's just closed. And if it were to be merged, it would be. Oh yes it's easy to find because he references the pull request in, in the software change. Pull request description so this thing is a link to the documentation and the software stays open right just exactly I don't have any authority to close that so. I'm closing this until can reopen when the, when the matching software pull request is merged. Fair enough. Sounds good. Okay. All right so we've made progress of one. Oh, another one from Victor. All right so, and this one I suspect has the same. I was wondering the same as like I bet this is something similar. It is the same condition right so let's follow the same pattern closing. For now, once reopen reopen once the matching software change is implemented. Let's just be sure that it doesn't damage this pull request yet show it change the color of the icon but that's all. Okay, right now. We've got changes requested on this one and this one that have had no action the action would then be someone else has to adopt them. Pick them up make the requested changes and then apply them and likewise for this one this one this one. So then we've got a vocabulary update proposed here that's been put on hold and another vocabulary update proposed will put on hold. Oh the job and project one. Oh God. Exactly. Oh, that is oil and water religious. Precisely that that is, it was like a pipeline and a workflow right there right. Actually it's it's I think even more contentious than pipe. Remember that. It's the. I don't know. Yeah. Community. I get the feeling that the community, except for the writers is very comfortable with the fact that we misuse that we have all this terminology that we use different ways and different times and so what what there are, I would phrase it is that there are, there are people who are very precise in their phrasing and their precision in phrasing is related to the, to the Jenkins object model. And then there are people who are precise in their phrasing, and it's their precision in phrasing is in disagreement with those who are precise with the Jenkins object model because they're precise in their phrasing. In terms of the way users use the words. That's, that's been my discussion with Tim Giacomo on this one anyway is job and project. Those have very, very precise meanings in the Jenkins object model, and one of them is a better choice than the other and yet users use the word job. They do, whether we like it or not, and they don't care what the inheritance tree is in the, in the Jenkins source code they use the word job to describe it. And when talking about it always was with it was that all of this was set in concrete before they came up with pipelines. Again, same, same thing that they're pipeline they still call it a job. Right. Yeah, go but then when I get into something like the security matrix, when it talks about jobs. I think some of that only applies to freestyle and some of it applies to pipelines and it's. It's very, very, but yeah there's, you know, yeah well but but wouldn't that disambiguate with a pipeline job and a freestyle job. And isn't isn't that a way that we could terminology wise disambiguate by saying, well, I go into that course because we never really documented those different things very well anyhow.   And I feel a lot of sympathy towards the people who are using it from the context of what the user says because that's kind of, most people are not going into the deep bowels of Jenkins to understand the inheritance. So, it's very hard. Now, I just realized we've got Meg for maybe two or three more minutes and I think there is one candidate here that we may be able to close, and it would be one that fits with Meg very well. Meg converted the agent to master access control to GitHub is a, I believe now dead. Right, because there isn't really anything about agent to master control from the wiki that is relevant. That's wiki data right agent to master access control. As far as I know anyway is, there's no switch anymore right there is just no switch. Not even off the first I thought it was just on the gooey but you can't turn that off. Right, it's this always on. Some people can figure out how to turn it off but we're never going to document it. Right. Well, and yeah it's not intended to be switched off as far as I know. Right. You, if you choose to turn it off you're disabling a major security feature. Yes. So I propose we close this one because agent to master access control is really always on now. Who is Larry soul and where is he. He's in Nigeria. Okay, and was he attempted to contribute this conversion. Back in 2020. So it was June of 2020, I think, as part of the UI UX hack fest that we did. Mayor, yeah it was May of 2020 so it's now be heard two years ago. You won't know. Looks like a candidate can no longer be disabled. Yes, exactly is is cannot be disabled from the UI. I have no idea if there's a property escape hatch but good. Okay. We have now successfully closed three and Meg let's call ourselves done, because that way we've we've hit your times timeline. Kristen, thank you very much as well. Yes, I have three. That's a really good number of you're forgetting those numbers down. And we're down to only 33 open and several of these are screenshot updates that may merge pretty quickly. So we, we might get down to not we won't be down to one page but we're getting much closer. Cool. So what are the public announcements. Are those going to be on Jenkins scuzzy tomorrow. They, they after Google makes them and makes the announcement publicly, then, Jane, www.jankins.io will get a blog post, etc that says more details yeah. Okay, just curious. Great. Yeah, check, check Jenkins.io for the announcement tomorrow. Hey guys have a great week. I feel bad I'm not doing anything with this meeting but I look forward to seeing you guys every week. Well it's great. Great to see you and thanks for your help with closing pull requests and reviewing them. Thanks. Take care. Thanks by all.


Hello, everybody. Hello, hello. Hello, hello, everybody. Well, this is Mathia, and you're actually now watching International Virtual Studium, which is a very interesting project powered by the University of Siena, which aims to share a few stories, anecdotes, and knowledge about a wide range of topics which are all relevant to the actual coronavirus crisis that we are all facing right now as humankind. So, right now we are very pleased to have a bunch of guests who are all very versatile and which are pleased to take part in our small project. So, today there's this very special guest that we are expecting right now, and let me check, is she here? Oh, my God. Yes, she is. By the way, we're so pleased you're here. While we're waiting, hi. I wonder, Dottrato, for the biochemistry. You can now see her. No, you can't. Where is she? You're in suspense because you still don't know who she is, and there we are. Okay, nice to see you. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Can you? Yes, yes, yes. In the public.  By the way, let's not forget to ask you guys, should you have any kind of questions, please do ask them. You can ask them in the small box which is below. Is the volume a bit low? Is it my volume a bit low? I'm sorry, I'm trying to speak here right now. So, but hello. I still haven't told our lovely audience who you are. You are a professor of mathematics, am I right? Yes, I teach two engineers and mathematician. I have a background in mathematics, but I usually work with engineers. I've been engineering department of the University of Siena, and so I'm somehow both engineer and mathematician. Oh, good. So you are as versatile as I said before. Then the title of your, let's call it lecture, but it's more of a warm conversation. But anyway, it's self-regulation and social influence for cooperation. So, cooperation maths, that's kind of weird for people like me who are not keen on mathematics or know nothing about it. So please, show us this whole new word of mathematics, cooperation, self-regulation. What's all about? Okay, cooperation is not a mathematical concept, as you can imagine. Cooperation is important for all of us when we behave in a society, when we behave in any place where other people are together as and are somehow asked to safeguard some common goods. So cooperation is acting as a driver for all our decisions that are aimed to somehow prevent that common goods are discarded. For example, social health is a good example requiring cooperation and also environment safeguard is also very important. Cooperation is very important in the safeguard of environment, for example. So the mathematics will come later. I will try to start by motivating my study. That has been recently published jointly with a colleague, which is Dario Madeo. And so there is a big debate in the mathematical fields about cooperation. And this is motivated by the fact that usually people are struggling between taking decisions, ensuring their own rewards, or acting for social interest. And I think that we are in this moment, we are living in a situation where this is very, very true, maximally true. And so the point is that the maximum of the common goods can be achieved when all people contribute cooperatively to it. So we must be socially cooperative. So cooperation is not a decision of individuals as separate people, but it's a problem of a society. And moreover, selfish behavior prevents collective goods to be obtained correctly. And so the point is that, for example, in this time where coronavirus is spreading over the world, we can follow the rules that governments are asking us to promote. For example, stay at home, social distancing, or, for example, buy a little amount of food when going to the supermarket instead of panic buying. So we are every day under the controversial decisions between being selfish or being able to promote common goods conservation and presentation. Yes, I think I'm in for everybody in here. But when does maths kicks in in this field, which it has to do with common sense? So is there a way mathematically demonstrated common good and common sense are actually a thing? Okay, there is a theory which is grounded on mathematics, which is game theory. And game theory was born not many years ago by means of John Nash, that maybe all of you know. And this theory has been developed to describe the decisions of people, how people take decisions. But under game theory, there is a strong assumption, and the strong assumption is that people are rational. So they are always aimed at maximizing their own payoff. So the mathematics I would say is in the word maximization. If I am able to use mathematical tools to maximize some functions that represent our payoffs, our utilities, our rewards. So the mathematics is the methodology under which we can solve the problems of taking the decisions for individuals. And game theory is very important because the decisions of people under the game theory are related to the decisions of other people. So it's a field where the interaction among people is very important and is at the basis. The problem is that according to game theory, it may happen that sometimes some dilemmas happen. For example, there is a very famous dilemma in game theory, which is called the Prisoner's Dilemma Game, where we, using our rationality, we will always converge to a decision which is the decision of defecting. Being defective while, on the contrary, being cooperative will produce a higher payoff. So the dilemma is that being cooperative is providing a higher payoff. But under the hypothesis of rationality, we, at the end, eventually will choose to be defective. So the mathematics enters in the way that people are taking the decisions. But unfortunately, these mathematics that have been also extensively used in the economics is not able to account for cooperation. So there is a limit under the assumption of rationality that prevents people to behave cooperatively in a social context. And so this problem is extensively studied in the literature. Even actually is one of the most important themes in the research, in the scientific research, in the mathematical field, and also in the social sciences, and also, I would say, in social psychology. Because the way that people take decisions is also studied by social psychology. Why people usually defect? What is the interpretation of this concept of game theory from a social psychological point of view? That seems to me a vibrant and engaging aspect of mathematics and sociology, isn't it? It's more relevant to everyday life. I would say just to make a parenthesis that I think my work is devoted to apply mathematical theory and mathematical tools to explain real facts and real phenomena. So I'm not that kind of mathematician or engineer which works in a separate room from real life. I prefer to be seen as an artisan that tries to explain what happens all around us. So I'm interested more in the interpretation of the results more than in the theory itself. So why people to be back? Why people defect? People defect essentially for two reasons that are well represented in the game theory and well interpreted in real life. One reason is the greed, is the compulsion. When we look for some goods, being not able at all to concern with the presence of other people. We are seeking for something just for benefiting ourselves. This is the one reason. And the other reason is the fear. Suppose that you are an individual that may wish to act in a socially responsible way. But you are afraid that all the other people will not. So this fear may push even well-concerned people to behave selfishly. So selfish behavior may induce selfish behavior in other people, in the other people. So these two facts that are well recognized in social psychology are also very well accounted in the game theory. So the point now is how can we solve this dilemma? Can we try to push into the mathematical models any methodology, any fact, any factor, any, I would say, variable that will be able to reverse this selfish behavior into cooperative one. So in my work I have done those facts that I will try to explain in a moment. The first step is to introduce time. So I'm not interested in games that are played once, one-shot games. I'm more interested in repeated games. Because when you are able to repeat games and you are able to play games with many people, you can learn from the results of the game. While if you are allowed to play only once, you will not learn anything. Or at least we will not be able to apply the results of the game. In a second round. So the second fact that we have introduced is the network of connections. So our individuals in the society are not separate people playing two-by-two games, but they are included in a network. Imagine, for example, a social network that we are now using, where people are connected explicitly through a friendship mechanism or even through a rental mechanism or other kind of neighboring mechanism. So in this way we know who are the other people to which we are playing against. So we are not individual, not identifiable in the society. We have a specific name and color and we are characterized essentially by our personality in a unique way. So the second thing we have done besides introducing times in the game's evolution of the dynamics, we have introduced the network. And then we have done a third change to game theory. And the third change is the introduction of a factor, of a new factor, which is a specific game, which is called a self-game, which consists with adding some kind of inertia to the basic mechanism of selfish behavior. We introduce a self-regulating parameter that we call exactly awareness parameter. So we try to introduce in our mathematical model the awareness, which is essentially an internal mechanism. And this awareness, when we are going to take a decision, comes from our knowledge, comes from being in touch, being in contact with the other people and being able to learn from the social context and also from ourselves. So when we introduce this term, we are able to show mathematically, as we say now, that cooperation is possible. But time is necessary because indeed we are balancing the selfish mechanism that is grounded in game theory that we have said before, together with this new factor which is able to limit the selfishness. And this factor is not due to any kind of punishment. It's not due to any kind of, I would say, reduction of payoffs in the game. It's not due to adding some cost. It's not a cost. Sometimes it costs, but the cost is not a monetary. It's not included into the games in the sense that it is reducing the game, it's reducing the reward. It's just a completely different nature mechanism, which is internal. So by joining the traditional game theory, together with these new factors, which is repeating games with the people and repeating games with connected people and being aware of the connections that we are embedded in, we are able to develop some mechanisms that are able to counteract with the selfishness and learn and learn to behave cooperatively in a spontaneous way. So can we apply all of that to the situation we're living in right now? The reason for which I'm very proud of our study is that actually the coronavirus situation that we are living now is very, very good examples of the results we get in our paper. I would say that we show mathematically that punishment-based cooperation is not the solution. Hard punishment as well as, I would say, centralized monitoring are not the right way to make people able to follow the beneficial guidelines. I would say that punishment-based cooperation will not produce learning in the population, will not produce the cooperation to be embedded in the cultural heritage of the country. On the other hand, we show that extensive testing, honest reporting and well-informed public is more easily cooperative. So when people are told the scientific facts, for example, the information we got from our scientists in the occasion of coronavirus, when people are told correctly about the scientific facts and when people trust public authorities and when people trust and are also able to understand the scientific facts that are told to them, then the citizens will do the right thing even without having a big brother under their shoulders. They will be able to cooperate under a self-motivated behavior. Just to sum up and to make things clear for everybody. So we're saying that a well-informed citizen rather than a well-fined citizen is more probable to act responsibly correctly or am I still stumbling in the dark? Yes, I'm very convinced about that. Moreover, I can add something to that. So I will think that according to our theory, I strongly think that, for example, the coronavirus experience will become part of the culture of the population at global level. So I think that we will be able, more able to deal with a new situation, a new, similar situation with more power for knowledge. So I think that empowering people is the great effort that governments must do. And I will say more that even the government may be under the same drivers. For example, if you think at a higher level, the connections among people may be also seen at the level of government. So the same model will apply to governments themselves. And so the cooperation between among all governments, I would say all governments in the world in this time, will be prerequisite for solving the problem and dealing with a similar situation. But I will say more. If I can add something even more, these ideas will apply to our lives also. So it's a multiple scale fact. We have to be aware, I think, that we are able to change things. So the behavior of any single person is important. We are very, very small compared to the ensemble of all people in the world. Anytime a contribution can make a world of a difference. Exactly. Because we act and we can influence our neighbors. And this influence may be propagated. And according to the complexity theory that I'm also studying, these will and the nonlinearity of the changes, a small and a tiny change in our behavior will be able to become a very big and change everything. So my message, a very important message is that even if we are made by two different parts of our personality, selfish and altruistic, we are able to balance these two parts and be cooperative when this cooperation is necessary for our safeguard, for our life. That's very important. Yeah. So thank you. You do have quite some time. So it all has to do with self-regulation, which is, I guess, a key skill in this kind of atmosphere, in this kind of situation. So people who are self-regulated are even more self-confident and more resourceful, I guess, when embarking on new tasks, like, you know, in this case, it's in at home, when, you know, the pandemic is spreading all over the world. Yes, I think that we must work. All of us, all of us must work and theirs or their selves in order to become more aware and more able to read the information and more open to new knowledge, even scientific. Because all people are, I think, able to understand scientific facts if they are explained in a well way, in a correct way, an easy and understandable way. So I think that we have made our efforts to be more self-regulated, but self-regulation is nothing to do with being afraid, is us to do with being informed. I see. Correctly, okay? And feel our power and being able to feel that we are very powerful in all sense. Yeah, but in this case, I think that there is even a huge effort that has to be made by, you know, scientists in order to, you know, provide more usable information, pieces of information, in order to get everybody to understand what's really at stake. So not just, you know, talking in this weird echo chamber where everybody has the same opinion and the same set of knowledge, but, you know, reaching out to people. Yes, we are, in our paper, I didn't have the time to talk about everything, but we also show that small groups are more cooperative. So the idea of what you are saying, echo chambers where all people having the same opinion are meeting and staying somehow close is not the good way to behave cooperatively, okay? We must promote the interaction among people that think differently and even small groups of discussions is more effective. I see. Yeah, to exit from... Well, right now we're sadly running out of time. So Rafa Bix, yes. Can you suggest some bibliography to find this very topic very interesting? So please, shall you? Oh, okay. About cooperation, I think there is a good way by Martin Novak, but it's a kind of technical book. So anyway, Martin Novak, our repeat is named, Martin Novak is one of the most important scientists working in cooperation. Secondly, people can read my paper. This is just a joke. No, absolutely. But anyway, it's just been published 20 days ago. But for more... Congratulations. Thank you. And for more, I will say, interesting lectures, I will suggest a recent book by Carlo Robelli. This is a book in Italian and the title is Ci sono luoghi al mondo dove più che le regole è importante la gentiletta. And I find this book very, very similar to my ideas, to the ideas that I'm trying to promote in my work. And then I will suggest a reading by Jan Stewart. Does God Play Dice? This is the new book about very, very simple book, not at all technical, but it's about the new mathematics of chaos. So Jan Stewart is trying to explain why God is playing dice, somehow contrary to what the famous scientists Einstein say that God doesn't play dice. So the theme here is about uncertainty. So we must deal with uncertainty in our lives. So we must be enough aware and self-regulated in order to be able to respond to uncertainty. So this is very important because uncertainty is the source of creativity and is the source of change. And I will also suggest a reading by Italo Calvino and the book that I suggest all books by Italo Calvino of course are all embed some science principles. But in particular I will say that Palomar is a nice book to be read because in it there is a good representation of what a person who is interested into the science can be able to make science and to pose very important questions that are very similar to what a scientist will also ask to themselves. And also it produces a criticism to the scientists that are convinced that science has the response to everything because the uncertainty I have mentioned before is also in science. Science is completely embedded into the uncertainty. And so this is an invitation to all of us scientists, politicians and citizens to be aware that uncertainty is something that we have to deal. Well, thank you. I love your approach. Yes, thank you. And so that's it for now. See you soon everybody. Thank you for watching our small episode and thank you professor and see you soon on Wednesdays or Thursdays sorry for international virtual sodium and every single given day for our Italian virtual sodium. So, goodbye. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much to all. Bye.