In this section, Professor Anirudh Joshi presents some of his work in which he has used the ethnographic approach to design products and services for a varied set of contexts. Professor Joshi teaches interaction design at the IDC School of Design, IIT Bombay. He has been involved in designing interactive products for emergent users in developing economies with a particular focus on Indian users. Among his many projects is Swar Chakram, a free soft keyboard for indexed scripts on Android devices. Some of his recent research looks at the acceptance of information and communication technology amongst pregnant women and new mothers in urban slums. Let's hear from him. Hi, I must first say that I am not an ethnographer, I am a designer, so I make things. But in order to make things, I need to understand people and I use contextual inquiry as my main method to understand people. And contextual inquiry, as it happens, borrows a lot from ethnography. It uses an ethnographic approach, but ethnographic approach is not ethnography per se. Contextual inquiry is shorter in time, ethnography typically has long involvement with users. Contextual inquiry usually may be 30 minutes, 40 minutes, that kind of short involvement with users. Ethnography has goals of description. Contextual inquiry derives methods from ethnography, but not the goals. Ethnographers are very, very careful in fact not to change things that they are observing. They are very, very careful, they don't want to disturb anything what they are trying to understand. In contrast, designers are constantly trying to change things. So, this overall scope of things, contextual inquiry and ethnography broadly is trying to answer the question what matters, what matters in society. The case study that I wanted to talk about was a project that I worked with a large number of people. A quick background about HIV in developing countries. So, even as recently as in 2017, about 37 million, 3.7 crore people in the world are living with HIV AIDS. And a majority of them are in developing countries. In fact, 69% are in Africa alone. And one of the challenge with HIV is that you cannot remove HIV from the body. Once a body is infected with the HIV virus, it just stays in your body more or less forever. So, you have to keep taking your medication all your life. And one of the challenges that a lot of this medication is fairly expensive. And so, financial status is one of the common reasons why people stop taking medication. However, governments have responded already now more than 10, 15 years now, by providing free medication through government hospitals. In India for example, lot of medication is available for free for treatment of HIV. However, in spite of this, people who are in fact receiving free medications were also found to be having lower adherence. So, other than financial status, other reasons were people were just depressed or just were not educated enough to understand that you have to keep taking your medicines throughout. They were unemployed or strangely because they felt healthy. So, they felt that they had overcome the disease. So, they don't need to take the medication anymore. Like most of the medication, once you become healthy, you stop taking the medication. But that doesn't happen with HIV. So, as a result of all of this, in 2009 when we started the project, every year about 170,000 people in India die related to HIV. And this was in spite of the fact that antiretroviral therapy which is the medication used for treatment of HIV was available, affordable and even free in the government hospitals. So, one of the things that we learned very early in this project is that there is a large information component in the treatment of HIV. And so, the objective of our project was to see what can we do about that. And the opportunity that was growing at that time was all over the world, mobile phone penetration was improving. So, the question that we were asking was that can we use the mobile phones in some way to help support HIV treatment in developing countries. So, we went and looked at operations of clinics, how clinics work, what are the information needs of people, how people take pills, what are the socio-cultural issues, what are the financial issues. So, we went and looked at the whole ecosystem of people living with HIV AIDS in India. So, what we found is that large number of people, no facts or no procedures. So, facts would be what is your CD4 count or what is your HIV load and so on. So, these would be facts. Procedures would be things like you should take your pills on time, you should not miss taking pills, you should have high adherence, you should eat healthy food and so on. But very few people actually understood concepts, you know, how HIV works, why should I take my pills on time, what happen if I miss my pills and so on. So, HIV was this disease which everybody knew about, but nobody understood. So, of course in HIV treatment is always associated with counseling and counseling is provided by professional counselors. But counseling is insufficient and it is always under time pressure. So, there is a long queue waiting outside the counselor's room and it tends to get repetitive and difficult to retain. Also during counseling, the PLHA, the person living with HIV AIDS gets too much information, it gets it all in one go. Sometimes some of that information is relevant but not all of it is relevant. And then the information that they get outside the counselor's room is not very trustable. So, we found a lot of opportunity to provide information. So, we used to call this drinking from the waterfall. So, like you know, you can only drink so much from the waterfall. So, we needed smaller chunks of information. One of our interesting findings was that by this was a study done in 2009, 2010. So, by this time already mobile phone penetration was very high. But SMS use was very little in India. Almost half the people that we interviewed and had mobile phones did not use the SMS. They had never read an SMS in their life. So, SMS use was not very nice or not very extensive. But one of the things that we did was that we sent SMS to people at their pill times. And those SMS reminders helped people with their pill adherence. We also investigated a lot of social and cultural factors. So, we found that there are different kinds of people living with HIV. Some people had extensive family supports. So, people in their family were taking extensive care of some of them. On the other hand, some people had kept their HIV status a secret from their family members. And they had not disclosed. In fact, they did not care about disclosing to all unknown people, all and some people that they met. But they were very particular that they did not want to disclose their HIV status to their family members. And this was a very important aspect to them. In fact, this is something that we learned because of our relationships that we could develop with the people that we were interviewing. That for them, retaining their relationship with their family as it was originally was very important. And they did not want to disclose to their family members. We also investigated some issues with the clinics and the social and political structures within the clinic. So, one of the things that came out very strongly was that people living with HIV AIDS had to spend a lot of time in the HIV clinic waiting for the doctor. And so, sometimes you wait for a long time with the doctor. The doctor says, okay, you have come after six months. So, you should do better do this some tests and then do this test and meet me. So, now they have to go and do those tests and wait for the report and bring those reports and give it to the doctor and then see the doctor again. They had to take a lot of time. But people had a lot of respect. HIV patients who got cured had a lot of respect for their treating doctors. In fact, this respect and trust also created a lot of fear about the doctors. They did not willingly want to share many of their mistakes or if they missed their pills, they would not tell the doctor that I missed these pills. So, there was this sort of this very high power distance relationship with the doctors. There were some gender issues in the clinics like female patients did not want to talk to the male doctors. There were majority of the doctors that we interacted with were males. There were few female doctors and the female patients did not like to talk about some of their issues with their doctors. Many of the counselors that we talked to were female and many of these counselors were also fairly young girls, maybe just out of college kind of people with relatively less experience about the world as you might say. So, the male patients, some of them in their 40s and 50s found it very odd to discuss their very personal intimate sexual lives with these very young girls in a closed room. So, it was a very odd situation for many of them. So, many of these sort of gender issues were coming up. We also found that clinics struggled because of poorly maintained health records. Health records, the treatment history particularly made a big impact on future HIV treatment even now it makes. But because of the stigma associated with HIV, a lot of patients either do not maintain their health records or do not maintain their complete health records. They keep minimum the most recent prescriptions or something like that. One of the challenge was that many of these health records were in English and people could not read English for them. These health records were meaningless information. So, they did not know which of this is important and which is not. So, as a result many of the clinics maintained their own health records for the patient. Now, this reduced patient mobility. So, if there is a migrant worker and if he goes from here to his hometown for a few days he cannot access a clinic there. He cannot carry his health records with them and so on. So, there are lots of issues about maintenance and updation of health records. So, socialization is the primary method by which information spreads in society. So, most of the information that we learn, we do not necessarily learn by reading about it. We learn from friends or from family members or from somebody else. So, socialization is therefore very important. But HIV people living with HIV and AIDS tend to socialize less partly because they are already under financial pressure and partly because they are depressed. So, they do not want to really talk to people. They do not really enjoy socialization. And then even if when they do socialize they really do not end up talking about HIV because firstly most people have not disclosed their family and friends about their HIV status and even if they did this is not a topic of conversation for most people. So, information about HIV then did not spread easily within the society and so maybe technology can help with that. One of the things though that we came up with and we understood really I mean we knew this but we understood from the inside richly as you might say in ethnography is that solutions need to operate under very tight financial constraints. So, we cannot expect people to buy gadgets or equipment only for the treatment. We need to develop solutions which will work on existing equipment or existing platforms. So, based on our findings we came up with some solutions. So, we mainly came up with as I said a interactive voice response system to support people living with HIV AIDS. We evaluated this, we came up with several prototypes. Some of our early prototypes did not work with people who are new to technology. So, we redesigned it, we went through several iterations and then once we were confident we came up with our final system. So, the system had some interesting features firstly it provided post pill time reminders to patients. So, just after it was time for people to take their medication and why just after well what we found out is that sometimes people get over reliant on technology and one of the things that we wanted people to do was be less reliant on technology. So, say if my phone gets discharged I might not get a call, if I do not get a call I do not want to be in a condition where I forget to take my medicine. So, every time we gave a call to the person we said by now you should have taken your medicine. If you have taken your medicine press 1 else press 3. So, we used to always assume that you are independent and then we are just checking if you have done that. So, all the dialogues and the way we had written up the IVR system was like that. Then when they said yes I have taken my medicine then the system would give them adherence feedback. Or if they said I am not going to take my medicine today it would give them adherence feedback. Or sometimes there was also an option to say that I am going to take my medicine later after sometime. Then if they did that they say you should not delay too much take it as soon as you can because it is important that you take your medicine. So, appropriate feedback was given based on that. We also provided what we called as personalized health tips. So, all the council and information we kind of broke it down into small 30 second nuggets which were easy to absorb for people. One of the things that we found was that lot of people had not disclosed their HIV status to their family members and partners. So, we protected the system with a pin with a number. So, when the system calls you music plays and people are you just keep listening to the music. So, if somebody else picks up your phone and phone sharing is very common in our society also. So, if somebody else picks up the phone they will hear the music and they will not understand what it is and they might disconnect the call. But every patient that we deployed the system with we used to train them that this is your pin this is your number. So, the key in the number it will not prompt you to do that. So, it is protected with a pin and it is localized to a clinic. So, although it was a single system that was deployed across 20 clinics for each clinic it would say hello I am Tama calling from this particular local clinic. So, it was localized to the clinic and so, we were here trying to leverage the respect and the relationship that the doctor the treating doctor has with that particular patient. So, what we did was this is the second ethnographic study of sorts not really ethnographic field study where we went and looked at how these 54 people who had tried Tama for 12 weeks how they actually have been using. One of the things that we found was that the pill reminders was used extensively and especially that snooze like feature. So, in fact every patient on an average for every pill time snoozed twice. So, it was consistently being used. So, it was extensively and everybody was surprised with that people used to complain about things like you know when I miss one pill you know I used to be taking for 10 days I take a pill my adherence shows up as 100 percent. 11 day I miss a pill it becomes suddenly 90 percent then the 12th day it becomes 91 percent. So, when I lose I lose a lot and when I gain I gain very slowly. So, people had started understanding that this is how it works. The health tips the information that we are providing was a great hit. In fact, originally when we had talked to the doctors the doctors were really not very convinced that we needed to provide information because they said that we provide all the information that they need. They do not need to get additional information. We should not provide them additional information because this might confuse people. However, what the doctors did not realize was that although they were providing the information they were all providing the information in one go. And that is just too much of information and people did not retain a lot of it. So, in this round when doctors came back and they said they were very happy that actually we were providing all this information. This system was then subsequently developed more and currently it is being used. So, as of December about 800 people were using it in Mumbai district and hopefully this will get scaled up to other HIV patients and for other conditions beyond HIV also. Okay, so that is it. So, I wanted to close by saying that contextual inquiry is a method that uses ethnographic approaches for the needs of the design process. As we saw from Professor Joshi's presentation, the ethnographic approach can help us gain a nuanced understanding of everyday phenomena. There are layers of complexity in the most common of tasks. It is by understanding these layers that we are able to design products and services that fit into the context and the needs of the participants. Professor Joshi made an interesting point while he was talking about his project that provided medical information to AIDS infected persons. The project team made a conscious decision not to remind participants to take their medicines. Instead the program was designed to check if the participants had taken the medicines. The team felt it was important that people do not become dependent on the service.  In some way what this signifies is that the researchers and designers working on this project did not think of the participants as perpetual users dependent on the services given to them. They believed in and decided to enhance the agency of the patients by providing information and timely checks. We could say this is a manifestation of empathy and respect among the researchers for their participants. Professor Joshi's work gives us an opportunity to see how these qualities filter into the products and services we design for the other. In our next section we will meet Professor Atwankar who also uses the ethnographic approach in design. He brings an element of play and interactivity into it. Let us see how he does this.


Hi everyone, Joe for Jaspie's casebreaks.com coming at you with 2020 Leaf Best of Sports 2 box random letter break number two Now remember this is the first letter of their last name first letter their last name Charles Barkley will go to be Karim Abdul-Jabbar will go to a each year. Oh if it's just his name printed there each first name It'll go to I but if it's each year of Suzuki, it'll go to S So there's all the letters right there. So it should be some should be pretty self-explanatory big thanks to Big thanks to got ahead of myself here Those people right here getting into break best of sports number two Big thanks to the letters right here. I don't think I even did the spreadsheet and just got to do it live Wednesday the 6th It's a two box random letter break number two 2020 Leaf best of sports. There you go. Easy Let's roll it. Let's randomize it three and a five eight times for each list one two and Eighth and final time watching a little poker here, too after eight we got Leonard Jacob All the way down to Josh three and a five eight times for the first letters of their last names and Eighth and final time after eight. We've got the letter e down to letter a alright, so Leonard With e Brian with the Y V I and combo and L Jeff with s Scott with our Daniel with W Kevin with M and F Matthew with B Brendan with G Christian with T Josh with H So if you pull a Josh Hoffman, it'll go to Josh Hoffman Will with P Craig with D Josh with J Daniel with K Josh s with J Daniel K with K if we pull Daniel Katz, it'll go to K Brendan with C and Josh with a Josh s with a Let's order these alphabetically by letter and while you're considering trades Let's pop that open.  I like that one right there and We'll go one two three four if I roll a five or six. I'll just roll again. It's two one two easy Remember I marked these so we know that they're from the same case And so we'll save these for the next break, which is number three and for the next set we'll go We'll just go to Bob will go one two three four five six on the dice roll. All right any trades No, anybody want the letter e? No trade window going once trade window going twice All right, TWC trade window closed Let's roll McCarthy. What's going on? All right, so as you remember from the previous breaks It's one leaf best of sports original card and then the buy bag the graded card We've got at the rushmen.  It's nine ten Elegance patch and auto out of impeccable Colin Sexton Nice from 1819 impeccable We did a case of 1920 earlier today, which was nice There you go s Letter s that'll go to Jeff Jeff tea with s We got Bobby wit jr five out of 15 W Daniel and We've got a 1967 tops baseball card in here. Wow PSA six a Yankee Mickey Mannell Wow From 67 tops Mickey Mannell PSA six That's pretty cool. And that'll go to M. Of course Kevin Sullivan with M We've got a few more of these in the store folks And we I only saw one case So get into it while supplies last I'm Joe. I'll see you for the next one. Bye. Bye


Morning, everyone. So as has been announced, it might be very boring if you already committed some code to Chromium or Chrome OS.  Can you raise your hand just so I get an idea? OK, great. So I can go fast. Obviously, you can interrupt me. And there will be Q&A time at the end. I try to give a bit more because there are some Dory submissions, too. There are, well, set to this goal. So I work on Lucy. You don't know what it is, and it's fine. It lives at the very base of Chromium. It's kind of layered. Most of the developer tooling is built on top of Lucy. And actually, Chrome itself is not really the only project which runs on top of my stuff. There are a few others, and these are just public ones, because this talk is public. I can only tell you public stuff. So please don't ask me questions which are internal, like how many machines do we use for tests. You can do so after the talk when we are being recorded. All right. So this talk is focused, as has been announced, on Chromium, especially, but most of the things are applicable to other projects. For example, Chromium has Fuchsia. I don't know how many of you heard of that. They also use similar infrastructure. Chromium is transitioning to use more of what I discuss. So I hope eventually it will be mostly the same. So still, the way you contribute with the different projects is very specific to those projects.  If you want to commit code to those projects, you have to really look at the docs. So for example, here, if you look at the docs for Chromium, specifically, this is the Chromium docs, which says how to contribute. I presume most of you have seen this, or at least did something similar. So typically, this shouldn't be new to you. The way a bunch of code makes it to the Git log in the end is with these eight steps, assuming eight isn't happening. So you don't have to read them all. I'll go through them one by one. So first of all, you need to know what you work on, right? Typically, it will be either a bug or you work in a feature, in which case, we strongly encourage you to file a bug, because usually it's not just a single CL, and you want to group them by bug. There are usually started bugs. If there are very new people here, I think that 800 now, they keep growing every year. I recommend to look at the latest ones. They're more likely to be up to date. But anyway, suppose you pick some bug, which looks like this. There's some struct trace over there, which means you're lucky. But the struct face is nice. That said, reading the whole code is better. Seeing just the line number isn't good enough. You want to see more lines around it. We have awesome tool to code search. Raise your hand if you've heard about it. Oh, that's great. So one focus much here. You can search here. Now, we have two code searches. Actually, we have public one, which is what my team maintains. And that's what is available to all the contributors to Chrome who are not Googlers. We also have internal code search that I hope you've heard about. If you work with internal Chrome code, you can use that to search it. However, unfortunately, not all repos are available there. So it is possible something is missing. All right, with that, let's go one extra bit. I don't know why, but many people are not aware that code search isn't just showing code. It also shows you history and other metadata, like who changed those lines. It's really useful if you want to figure out whom to ask questions about the code, particularly if you're new. If you figure out, you need to modify some file for your work. But that is outside the expertise of your team. That's how you find who the expert is, apart from owner files. Now, once you found a bug that you want to fix, don't forget to assign yourself there. It's a common problem. Don't work unless you assign it to yourself. So you don't waste work with somebody else from your same team. All right. So how many people have to check out Chromium code? All right, great. So you're familiar with how long it takes, right? So let's skip this. This is useful for many people who haven't done it yet. I hope everybody has deeper tools. Without it, it's a bit hard, very hard.  So that's great. Now, I mentioned here that there are many different ways to check out the source code. These things actually keep evolving. We have historically been on G-Client. So probably all of you have heard of G-Client. But Chromium still uses repo, which is Android original tool. And I think some of our projects are migrating to vanilla Git with submodules. So I hope, maybe in three years, you will mostly see Git submodules, and you won't have to know what G-Client is. But that's probably a silly wish. With that, you have to wait. So every time you wait to code check out, I have a recommendation for you, even if you're on a corp network. Invest into learning Git and tooling, particularly if you're new to this. You use Git and Git-Cl stuff every day, probably a couple of times. Learn how to rebase stuff, really understand what's going on during rebase. Raise your hand if you have to rebase your code. Good. Do you understand what's going on doing rebase while, particularly if you have multiple branches? If not, I recommend these two links. I think they're really helpful. I've seen people improving their productivity because they can have stack changes in their local environment, which allows you to work on a new CL while previously I was in review. That allows you, essentially, to pipeline your work, just like CPU does it. So if you don't know this, basically if you remember anything from my talk, I hope would be this, that you look at the docs and improve your understanding of the tooling. So you yourself get more productive. Please slow latency for our typical operations. All right, let's go next. No flame wars in editors. Choose whatever you want. But I strongly recommend you use Git New Branch if you work in Chromium. You may use Git Checkout-B, probably. If you do so, it's fine, but you may hit some problems when you use multiple branches. So I recommend the switch to this. How many of you have Git Config file in their home OK, for those who don't, I recommend you look at somebody's senior on your team and ask what they have inside. Usually they have some shortcuts that save their time. I have probably 20 inside. Admittedly, I'm an infrastructure person. I wrote many of those tools. I think normally it's five or six. It's just shortcuts for commands you use. So you don't have to type by hand Git New Branch. There should be a shortcut and so on. So use your shells and tooling to minimize your latency so you can focus and work. All right, let's go next. This is not fun. You just fix a bug. I don't tell you how to do that. I actually have no idea. I don't work in Chromium. I work in different source code. So it's up to you how you fix it. But obviously, we have multiple different languages in Chrome, so it really varies. There are also different ways to run tests. Some tests you actually have to compile to just Ninja, probably. Some tests you just run some weird local shell script. Well, you have all of that. In this case, it was, I think, some Python test.   Sometimes you need to run tests on other platforms that you don't have under your desktop, something like iPhone. And you maybe have on the Linux and Windows. So in this case, you probably use SecureDry Run. If you use SecureDry Run, raise your hand. OK, that's great. I'm happy because I added it. Let me do work.  You have to make a local commit. Most of you did that. However, please remember to attach a bug. Some projects actually require a bug reference. I don't think Chromium does. But please attach it. One monotone bug numbers. As mentioned before, we have lots of different projects. Chromium is not the only one. Admittedly, it was the one in the first place, so it gets the numbers without prefix. But if you work with people outside of Chrome, I recommend you add a Chromium prefix in front. The left and right are equivalent. And you can have multiple bug lines if you have a lot of them. All right. So when the upload is changed, the lower one is for Chromium. Actually, if you work in their repos, sometimes you can also use Git CL upload, the same way you're familiar with, I presume. But you can also use repo upload. You can also use vanilla Git if you understand what you're doing. Actually, can you raise your hand if you use Git push reps, foreheads, master, and so on? Actually, more than I expected. So basically, that stuff also works. I just use it a lot. Git CL upload and repo upload simply provide you more goodies around it. But you can also use vanilla Git push with Git notation. All right. I'm sure all of you have seen this. If you upload a code, there's a giant blob of code. Someday, we'll improve it. But for now, we have to scan, train your machine learning in here, and identify a URL so you get your URL after you upload it. I'm sure all of you have seen Garrett, even if you haven't landed any code. But one thing I would note here, this thing's called TryJobs. I'm hoping next year, the talk will be very different and it will not show this screen because it will be more test-based. But for now, we are build-based, so you get to see all the different builds that we run in CQ. How many of you had to debug a red build? All right, good. So let's skip this, slide, somewhat. So if you haven't read one, typically, you'll end up something like this. We try to improve this UI, but I think it's still pretty bad. To build Chromium, I think it takes about 170 steps for some builders. So you might need to scroll up and down on this page. We added this small selection. Hopefully it will be somewhat more useful. But if you haven't seen GNRX in the output, I recommend you look at it now. It helps you reproduce. Well, if you have the similar machine, the same failure locally. Different projects like V8, and I think WebRTC and a few others, they also started emitting GNRX the same way. So if you see a failure, at least you can hopefully locally build the same thing. But that's the way for the repro. Sometimes it's difficult to repro and sometimes the failure is in some weird machine that you don't have locally. So you can't reproduce it locally. In this case, and this is really only for Googlers, sorry, I went too fast. We have links to so-called shards. So you're probably aware that we don't run all tasks in the same machine. So we build them by machine and then we run tests in multiple different part of machines. We call them shards. When shards fail, we insert to this URLs. I admit they're kind of hidden, but I hope now you know. If you click on them, you get a new interface with the debug button. Now, since this is recorded and it might be used for public people, outside of Google, you will not get to this page. That's only for Googlers. But Googlers can click on this and essentially you get, sorry, you get a machine for yourself. And you can access the machine, I think even Windows now, and you can run tests on it. This is kind of extreme case. I tried to avoid it, but sometimes it's inevitable. Actually, if you don't mind, can you raise your hand if you use this thing before? Okay, only two hands. Well, partially it's great. We hope you don't have to use it, but sometimes you have to. So keep it in mind, this is your possibility if there's some weird spec or some GPU that you don't have. This is useful. All right, speaking of failed tests, sometimes tests fails, you have no idea why. You didn't even touch related code. Also known as flaky tests. We have some tooling that I showed here. Anybody seen this before? Oh, I'm sorry. Really sorry. Well, we're hoping to improve it, but this is so-called flakiness dashboard. For each test, each row is a test and it kind of shows how tests behaved previously. So if you see like a lot of green and reds that basically means test is flaky. I'll talk about flakiness a bit later. So I assume it was your bug. So you fixed up all the new patch set. That's easy. Eventually, hopefully you get all GTM. I don't discuss this since it appears everybody knows what the GTM is. One thing to be aware of in Chromium, we use code review plus one. This is like actual GTM. Other great projects use different scoring system. So for example, Chromius is common to use code review plus one as in, it's okay, but somebody else has the GTM. We don't have this option in Chromium, the Chromius has and there's some other projects which use even more viewer or schemes. So just be aware of that. Hope someday we'll improve so it's more intuitive. All right, submit the CQ. I'm sure those who committed code have seen this button. It's essentially the same thing as before except now you test and lend. Sorry, if you think your CL is really great and you think it may lend as is, you may use auto submit. How many of you used auto submit? Okay, then I'll talk more about it. So we have a label called to submit. If you vote in this label, what it means is whenever a reviewer comes along, suppose you are based in Europe or Asia and you expect Mountain to review your CL and you think your CL is like maybe a couple liners. So you hope to have been like to lend it immediately as is without no changes. So what you're basically hoping is a reviewer would do LGTM and also CQ it for you. It has upsides and downsides, but that's what this button does. It mostly works. It's in Jalice Camp and I don't understand how it works. So it's too hard. So let's go next. Once you're lucky and CQ lends it and I know it may take a long time, but for those of you who haven't touched Chrome OS, think of it this way, you wait an hour, two hours in Chromium, they wait about a day in Chrome OS if they're lucky. So your life isn't so bad, but I know it's a horrible excuse. We're actually trying to make Chrome OS better so the bar isn't as low. So once the CL lends, you get these weird hashes. How many of you know what the CL commit position is? That's great. How many of you actually use the commit position like the integer number? Okay, that's great. I hope we can get rid of it at some point. So we actually, from SVN days, so I have this T-shirt. I got it for migrating Chromium from, I'm not the only one, just to be clear. We migrate the Chromium from SVN to Git. And SVN has these numbers which keep on increasing. So if you have revision 22 and 23, you know kind of how they stack up. Git has hashes, it's hard to compare. So we preserve the numbers. We have very weird contraption, which is anti-Git from my perspective, but it's still used in releases and so on. But I'm happy that nobody uses it. So almost nobody uses it. So let's go next. This is Git holes. This is how it looks once you CL lends. And at this point, many people kind of stop because CL lended, what else do you have to do? I hope you don't behave the same way, because what mostly happens, your CL gets rewarded at some point. And the reason is we also test your CL after it lends. I hope it's not a surprise. One thing to note here. So first of all, how many of you have seen this Chromium main console, this giant blob of stuff? Okay, thank you. So each dot here is essentially a configuration at the top phase. You may wonder what's the configuration. It's basically like a combination of things, which affect how we run tests and where we run tests, like which platform or Windows and so on. So actually we have, I think, way more than a hundred and many more internal ones, which run outside, like not visible for the public, so I'm not presenting them today. But the interesting thing here is a hundred plus is a lot more than what you see here when you run it in CQ. That creates often bug requests coming to my team saying, hey, my stuff got rewarded because it failed in this weird configuration. Why don't you test it before I lend my CL? And the answer is we just don't have capacity to test all hundreds of configurations. So there is a careful selection process for what tests, what configuration gets to run on CQ. It is possible that you would notice something that really should run on CQ because it frequently fails. In this case, you should escalate to the, to the infrastructure teams and tell them that you think it should run every time as opposed to only post commit. All right, this is Sharifmatic. I presume most of your Googlers here, that means you're probably Sharifing or will be Sharifing at some point, which essentially means keeping the tree green or in other words, keeping the head of the tree, of the chromium repository good enough so developers can locally build and test the code. That's what green tree means. Sharifmatic kind of tries to surface some of this information automatically for you. So life for Sharif is a bit, I hope a little bit easier than five years ago. It used to be just merely watching all those red and green rectangles and acting on them. But we have motivation now. For example, if you land a new test and we detected it's flaky, like say after 10 runs, after you landed your CL, it succeeded and failed five times each. We would try to over-revert the CL for you. Well, maybe you don't like it, but we will do so automatically. So this is the example of a commit which got reverted for this reason. And it's, you know, I presume you can't read it, but it shows you the reason and links to how you can see why exactly we thought it was flaky. We have other automation like code coverage. I think that's like last year, fairly new thing. We try to make it available on more platforms. I think for now it's still in the Linux and it's a bit slow, but please use that and add tests which cover more uncovered areas. It should also help us to release this later on.


Developing countries are especially interested in how the agency can help them to grow more food, treat cancer, manage water supply, protect oceans, and monitor climate change. I therefore believe it is time to mainstream the use of peaceful nuclear technology, changing the IA's motto to add the word development, make it, atoms for peace and development was part of this effort. Renewal is an extremely important project for the agency, which will benefit all member states. My report on the Fukushima Daiichi accident will provide a solid knowledge base for the future, and will help to improve nuclear safety throughout the world. The credibility of the agency is our greatest asset. Independent, impartial, and factual safety implementation is essential to maintain that credibility. Women are playing an essential role in the IAEA. Since I became the director-general, women's representation in the IAEA improved, but much more needs are to be done.


Welcome once again to Mises Weekends. I'm Jeff Deist and you may recall that in recent weeks we've discussed the concept of negative interest rates and how such rates really represent a bizarre and unprecedented chapter in human history rather than encouraging saving, which is a very natural and very human desire to protect ourselves against the uncertainties of the future and old age. The concept of negative interest rates encourages consumption at all costs to create a supposed variety of prosperity. Now conceptually, I think negative interest rates really encapsulate one of the fundamental differences between Austrian economics and what we might call mainstream neo-Keynesian economics today. Of course, the Austrian view is that prosperity is built on saving and investments. The accumulation of capital and interest rates and the incentive they create for savers are thus one key to the whole economy. The Keynesian view, by contrast, views consumption as everything, that we build a prosperous economy through spending and therefore we should encourage in spending, whether that's at the individual level or by businesses or by government itself. So I recently discussed the concept of negative interest rates in the context of the broader disagreements between Austrian economics and Keynesian economics on a radio show entitled The Everything Financial Show with Dennis Tubergen. It lasts about 17 minutes. So stay tuned for an interview discussing how Austrian economics differs from Keynesian economics in some very profound ways. I'm pleased to have as a first-time guest on the Everything Financial Radio program today Mr. Jeff Deist, Jeff is president of the Mises Institute. He joined the Mises Institute following many years as an advisor to Ron Paul. He was congressman Paul's chief of staff during the 2012 election and press secretary in Congress from 2000 to 2006. And he is a tax attorney by training and Jeff, welcome to the program. Thank you so much. Now. It's good to be here. Jeff, let's talk a bit first for our listeners that may not be familiar with what is the Mises Institute? Well, it is primarily an organization that is committed to keeping Austrian economics alive and promoting Austrian economics. For anybody who's not familiar, Austrian economics is essentially a school of thought in economics that opposes what is today Orthodox Keynesian demand side economics. So in effect, we are trying to promote the works of certain economists and certain thinkers who really stand opposed to the economics mainstream that is starting to crumble today. Certainly, the Austrian school has seen a big resurgence. And of course, that is tied to what central banks have been doing really for the last few decades around the world. So what used to be a conventional wisdom in economics was largely supplanted around the time of the 1930s, both in the UK and in the US. And what we find ourselves living under today in terms of the economics profession is what I would call sort of a neo-Keynesian synthesis. In other words, variations on the ideas promulgated by John Maynard Keynes. And certainly, from my perspective, we're all poorer and suffering for it, both in terms of academia and our universities, but also in terms of our economy. In other words, I think that Keynesian thought has done huge damage to our economic well-being over many, many decades now. So we stand opposed to Keynesianism and we're here to provide really an educational resource, a vast website full of free literature for people who want to learn economics that's different than what's taught in universities today. So that's why we're here. And unfortunately, we're, in a sense, it's unfortunate. We're sort of counter-cyclical. In other words, interest in what Austrians have to say tends to grow when we have events like the crash of 2008 and 2009. So it sure feels, Dennis, like we're entering into another period where central banks are not going to be able to prop up asset prices. So will 2016 be a rocky year? I think the answer is yes. Well, certainly, Jeff, when one looks at commodity prices that have crashed, which are often the proverbial canary in the coal mine when it comes to stock prices and probably real estate prices again, I would agree with you. I'd like to go back and expand on the Keynesian response to use that terminology of the Federal Reserve through their various forms of quantitative easing or just outright printing of money for our listeners that may not be familiar with that term since the financial crisis. Assess how effective that policy has been and what might have been a better response. Well, when you talk about a better response, there's a better response in terms of what would be best for the economy, and then there's the reality of politics, right? When there's an economic crash in the markets, it's generally not popular for politicians to come along and say, you know, the crash is actually the cure to the bubble, not the problem. And we need to let it go and we need to let businesses unwind bad investments and we need to let bad debt be cleared from the books of not only investment houses, but also mortgage lenders. And that's going to cause a lot of bankruptcies and a lot of dislocations, a lot of pain. And it'll expose banks like, let's say, B of A, which had bought countrywide, which had a very toxic mortgage portfolio. And there's going to be a lot of blood in the streets, but gee whiz, ladies and gentlemen, that's what we need to get back to the foundations to rebuild a solid economy, one that's not based on smoke and mirrors. You know, that's not how you win in politics. You generally say, well, we got to do whatever we have to do to take the pain away today. But unfortunately, that political response is what we saw from the Fed and from other central banks during the crisis of 0809. They said, we have to fight the cure and the cure is deflation, the cure is to let bad debt be exposed. And we have to fight that with huge monetary expansion. So the problem is, is that expanding the amount of money in an economy, whether that's base money that just circulates among banks, in other words, bank reserves, or whether that's actual lent money that increases the M3 money supply in the general population, neither of those actions creates any more goods or services, right? Money is not goods or services, money is just a means of exchange. So, you know, the idea here is that we ever and always have to fight deflation when in fact deflation is a healthy thing and a necessary thing, not only to raise our standards of living, but also to correct bubbles, but that we also have to endlessly create demand, right? If we had to pinpoint one element of Keynesianism that has stuck with us through thick and thin, it's that lots and lots of economists believe that the goal of monetary and fiscal policy is to stimulate demand, right? But humans don't need to have demand stimulated. Humans have endless appetites for more stuff, for more goods and services. That's just natural. Ever since we came up out of caves, right, we've wanted more stuff. So, you know, it's not a matter of whether we have demands for stuff, it's whether or not we have the means to pay for it. So, I would argue that the Austrian school stands opposed to this principle that aggregate demand is key. The Austrian school would say on the contrary, interest rates are really the key factor in understanding the economy. So, this idea that we can just always create more demand sounds great, but if we're actually getting more productive, we're not actually growing the economy. If we're not actually becoming richer, but we're just becoming more indebted and we have more credit, then that's not the way to build a healthy economy. And what we're doing is we're creating a house of cards. And each time the house of cards gets a little bigger and when it starts to crumble, we try to sort of reinflate the bubble. We kick the can down the road. And my fear is that we create something that's going to be bigger and uglier than 2008, 2009, which would be very painful for a lot of people. So, it's a scary time, but you know, the really fearful thing is not what's happening in the markets or what the next crash is going to be. What's really frightening is that the mainstream academics and the financial press and the political class have gotten away with creating enormous myths, enduring myths that are accepted by a majority of the public. And one of the great myths is that we need to stimulate demand. We need to make people want more stuff. And if people just want more stuff and spend more money, then we'll be better off. When we know the opposite is true, the basis of a healthy and prosperous society is when people save money, when people accumulate capital, when both businesses and households and individuals bring in a little bit more than they spend. Because that's what creates the excess. That's what creates the capital accumulation that is then available for investment into new ventures. It's not just spending that makes us rich, it's saving. This is so fundamental and ought to be so obvious, Dennis, but we lose sight of it because the financial news seems so complex. And now you take a look at negative interest rates by central banks in Europe and now just more recently in Japan, where excess reserves now actually are by banks. So there's a charge to deposit them with a central bank. Is this the last desperate act of central banks? Boy, it sure seems like it. It's just another tool, if you want to call it that, in the toolbox of central bankers to kind of obscure what's really going on. If we think about it conceptually, there's no scenario in which rational people would say, I have $1,000, I'll loan you that $1,000 in exchange for you repaying me $900 a year from now. Conceptually, that just doesn't make sense, negative interest rates. We would always say, hey, as a lender, I'm going to give up having $1,000 today or the things I could buy with that $1,000 today in exchange for lending it to you and over time maybe getting back $1,100 for you. So I'm comfortable enough that rather than consuming that $1,000 today, I'm going to give it to you so that over time I'm going to be even better off and have $1,100. And on the other side, the borrower says, gee, I want to buy something for $1,000 today so much, I want it so badly that I'm willing to pay $1,100 for it over time so I can have it today rather than saving up. That's what interest rates are all about. They're about the time preferences of the lender and the time preferences of the borrower. So the only scenario in which someone would lend you $1,000 today so that you can repay them $900 sometime in the future, which is what negative interest rates either on a savings or checking account or on a bond or whatever it might be, the only reason someone would do that is because we're in an environment where fiscal and monetary policy is so bad that our money is losing value. And so negative interest rates are almost an insurance policy. We almost have to look at them as an insurance product. We're some, let's say, a wealthy person with $1,000 to invest. As you know, I'm so worried about my $1,000 turning into $700 or $500 that I'm actually willing to give it to buy this bond with it that promises at least to pay me back $900. So I'm locking in that I'm only going to lose $100. So in that sense, you can say negative interest rates make sense because I'm at least capping my loss. It's like insurance. So you really have to wonder. You have to start to wonder when the so-called mainstream economists who advise central banks when they start talking about negative interest rates, you have to start to wonder what kind of bizarro world we're living in. And I think you really need to look at financial news in a way that cuts through this and says, you know, if we think about it conceptually, if we stop worrying about all the details about what central bankers are saying and just think about it conceptually, something's very, very wrong. Now, maybe some people are smart enough to figure all this out and spend 16 hours a day punching numbers, you know, into their models and say, well, I figured out the timing of all this. So I'm actually going to make money shorting stocks or whatever it might be. But for the average person who doesn't have 16 hours a day and doesn't have complex mathematical models and doesn't have enough capital to risk because they have to worry about their mortgage or their kids or college bonds or whatever it might be. I think you have to just look at it conceptually and say, how can I protect myself? How can I stay out of this bizarro casino and try to build some wealth that's based on something enduring rather than trying to figure out what stocks or bonds I should buy?   And that's where we are today. So I assume that most of you listening to this interview, that doesn't sit well with you. And it certainly doesn't sit well with me.


Welcome to a short training video on Cobra, the Complete Business Reference Advisor. By the end of this video you should be more aware of the sort of information Cobra holds and how useful it is for people starting up a business. So first we will look at how we access Cobra. This is the webpage you will come to when first logging into a public computer at your local West Sussex Library. In the top left is the title for A to Z of Electronic Resources. You would click on this of the arrow shows. Then we just need to scroll down to C and below C you should see the Clubs & Societies and you should find Cobra. The two asterisks before the word Cobra mean they can only be accessed at a library and not from home. Go ahead and click on Cobra. Here is the first page of Cobra. From here we can browse the index, search the entire website or we can go ahead and just view the business opportunity profiles, the business information fact sheets or even the sources of business information. But what does this mean in a practical sense? Imagine you have come into the library wanting information on how to start up a hairdressing salon. Cobra has an incredible amount of information that can help you, but how can you get it? First search using either the index or the search box. In this video we will use the Cobra index. Type the phrase you want to look for and press enter as this appeared on the screen. This will bring up the list of all information relating to hairdressing including the BOPs, which are the business opportunity profiles, the MINI BOPs, the business information fact sheets and market synopses. MINI BOPs do not hold as much information as BOPs and as you can see are about more specific businesses or ventures such as children's hairdresser or hair extension specialist. The business information fact sheets focus on a particular topic or task you want to accomplish such as writing a business plan. The market synopses are general overviews on how that particular sector is doing in the UK and right at the bottom you can see there is one for hair and beauty. Well those information will be very valuable to you if you were starting up this business. The most useful at the moment and digestible item to use is the BOP the business opportunity profile. So we would click on the one most relevant which is hairdressing salon which is expanding now. These business opportunity profiles hold a huge amount of information which are put into some main categories. There is an introduction, the what qualifications and skills are required, what are the key market issues and trends what are the main trading issues and this will be things like professional registration, business rates, licensing and even rough guides to the costs of equipment and furniture you will need. It will then also talk about legislation and give you further information. From here you can print the whole profile or save it as a PDF and that can be done with this bit expanding now in the top right. And if you did save it as a PDF you could read it at home at your leisure. So to conclude, Cobra is a huge collection of information useful for anyone running or starting up a business but also maybe business students at school or university. For specific business help e.g. hairdressing, bookshop, gym etc. use the business opportunity profiles or BOPs. For information either general or specific use the fact sheets and for more business help you can use the help and support tab which gives advice on the groups available to you.


Well ladies and gentlemen We've another speaker session tonight for that I am extremely delighted to introduce our next speaker mr. Neil Barman the chief growth officer at yellow dot AI Well, Neil has closed to two decades of experience in SAS and direct to consumer sales and marketing processes With business leadership experience in managing sales marketing and account management functions also Neil is one of the founding Members of the sales enabling enablement a society in India and Malaysia Ambassador for futures of sales a pack community advisory board member to multiple start-ups in India Malaysia and the US and a mentor to the entrepreneurship cell of this Pilani India Well, ladies and gentlemen with this. Let's give our humblest and warmest applause as we call upon Neil Berman to join us on the stage All right. I Know I'm standing here between you and a lot of awards So I'm just gonna take about 10 minutes of your time. So last night I met a customer who said that he doesn't care about technology and digital influence in enhancing customer experience and then I got up and Today I'm here and I could see the the influence of digital and technology That has done to several brands that we all can relate to so first of all Congratulations to all the award winners So talking about the influence of of digitization in customer experience It reminds me of the term digital Darwinism so for the last two two and a half years We have lived through an An a renaissance of experience it has changed the way today we interact we shop we live and That has clearly brought us to a Cx revolution or a or a Experience revolution not only for for our brands, but the way we live every day so probably To to talk about the experience that we're living today It's moved Of course very likely in one of the presentations I I saw a roti kapra Makhan and then technology or digitization probably that's where we are moving today. We are we are moving in an experience from being reactive to being more proactive and the Campaigns and and some of the campaigns I have I have very closely seen an experience Have been more or less proactive in the outreach and the experience that that they have given so Today we have seen Conversation being being automated and being consumed across different channels different languages and probably in in India today even even God allows conversational AI or or automated Conversation to happen and even the the favorite cutting chai is also coming automated to us so conversations existed in in an automated format from the era of ARPANET to the gigabot economy and Probably to to talk about it today most of you sitting here Probably using three or four of the mediums on the handheld device that you're using today starting with with the the hotel which we all are sitting to the network that you all are using and Probably if you're not driving back home your ride home will also be through an automated conversation engine Now it takes years to to build an experience and it takes a tweet to tarnish it all of us who are who are familiar with the with the Rolls Royce story Which happened over a tweet but happened on an incident which was which was more than a hundred years ago that had that had transpired so Very quickly. I'll touch upon the story. So the Maharaja of Mysore Wanted an experience with Rolls Royce of a brand which is famous for the experience that it offers and He was turned down from from purchasing Rolls Royce in the in the showrooms of London because of which he Purchased six Rolls Royce Which were used for sanitization of his palace in Mysore and Probably that day the sales guy would have met his numbers by selling six Rolls Royce at a time But it had it had tarnished the experience that the brand stood for This entire episode was was against surfaced over a tweet About a hundred years later and the experience the bad experience That Rolls had once given to a Maharaja Had again come back to haunt the experience that they offer today So a question to all of you here What app do you think your target group opens 25 times in a day? No, it's it's not WhatsApp. What's up? So open much much more than that so the next question would be Do you know how many times you consciously or unconsciously use a bot today to answer that I'll Introduce you to my friend yellow Global citizen a global citizen enabler and This is how The day goes in the life of a yellow So starting from your your morning toothpaste to your breakfast cereal to the the train that you take to to go to your your Workspaces or or the provider who's powering your internet when you're when you're working at home To all the all the shopping that you do on e-commerce The automation in the conversation and the commerce that happens. It's all powered By my friend yellow And it says the Mumbai never gives up We learned it the hard way when we started the powering mcgm Truly are at a much is adequately experienced in terms of the the volume of conversation and The nature of conversation that started the surfacing on the on the platform So some of the brands might be familiar some of the brands I saw coming up on stage or will be further coming coming back up on stage so automation from from a standpoint of care commerce and support is Provided on a singular platform today probably the the color of the change that we see in automation has somehow turned to yellow and It has been emboldened by almost thousand plus brands four billion plus plus quarterly Conversations that we are seeing getting automated 60% of this automation is actually happening within a time frame lesser than 30 days that shows the agility In our automation or the way we are trying to drive conversion automation among brands Lot of these claims were validated by Gartner when Gartner met my friend yellow 21 times in the last 12 months and That kind of takes us to the conclusion that probably we are truly living in the world of instant and now we want everything spontaneous we we are living in an instantaneous economy and Probably from a from a business standpoint also We are looking at doing all our automation within the time span of of 30 days or less and Yellow makes it happen so talking to Brands or consumers of the brands the target group and I could I could safely say that probably in this in this room today Custodian of all major brands or or at least brands who are making an impact felt for the the experience That's happening all across all across the country is present so in terms of making that experience more colloquial more vernacular in a platform of their choice and spontaneously at a time When customers are looking to interact Whether it be shopping it be payment it be delivery Or it be anything to to do with general queries Yellow makes it happen Reminds me of a story. So so all of you here are familiar with the brand by Jews When we started working with by Jews about for three years back our first Target group where we were talking to to an audience which was non adult category and We started getting queries on the bot. How can I come first in class? So it it need not be to do with Only queries which are which a brand can answer it has to be automation from a standpoint of human intelligence and that's what we offer today we are amplifying a whisper and the way we are doing it is by redesigning the entire experience journey that a brand goes through with its consumer in 2008 President Obama has said that your voice can change the world Probably I was too naive to understand what he meant but 12 years later The writing is on the wall voice has taken over most of our our repetitive or or Daily life task which we want to get solved today. So Let it be our our banking or it be our hospitality We saw tremendous shift especially in this in this era of pandemic or or in the era when where we shifted towards Automation doing most of our work. We saw voice taking over most of our queries and and solving it for us Loyalty loyalty being made Automated it was automated now Bringing in a conversational layer on on the loyalty application which sits in the back end as an enterprise application Has given brands the leverage to give the spontaneous Experience that consumers today are looking for now this entire gamut. How do you bring it? in a in a singular platform or or provide a singular interface or singular experiential interface is by putting the The consumer experience at the heart of your automation strategy So you put automation at the center stage and you connect all your Enterprise applications or your or your system of records with it in order to Bring in that experience Bagging a bit about all the integrations. We've done over the years. So this slide only talks about that and Of course a a term probably which which Most of the most of my agency friends here here whenever you're giving brands a brief as to What you're what you're suggesting is that measurable? How much of it are we monetizing? What's the ROI? So at at yellow we offer you real-time insights with which all your engagements or or every spend that you're doing How is that making a top line or a bottom line impact for you can be narrated to the brands in real-time? and of course these are the cliche terms on compliance so Doing business all the way from Japan to Mexico. We are compliant on most of the certifications that any of the major nations ask for and It's a it's a snippet of how Gartner validated the the platforms market in terms of the conversations That spread across different platforms and yellow was ranked right next to Facebook right after Facebook in terms of How user-friendly or the ease of doing business with the platform exists today? So let me let me talk about a few success stories here in terms of what we have done The the question always come. Okay, who did already got up? Will it sit down? I I'm not gonna talk about MG today so It's a talking talking about a few brands That we have enabled so we have enabled all the all the beer and the pizza that reached our home during the pandemic on a on a seamless conversational platform a very interesting use case with Adidas what what we have enabled that Enables the brand to do hyperlocal targeting hyperlocal marketing and hyperlocal delivery in in a in a given circumference or or in a in a given locality using a conversational platform so I Would I would end my presentation on yellow talking about the way we are here to amplify your campaigns and The way we we do that is by bringing your experience on multiple platforms Instagram being being a late entry into the party, but we are seeing Tremendous tailwind on the platform. Here's some stats for you to ponder upon and and In terms of how you make a customer journey Happen through automation at every phase is Is depicted in terms of how we are doing it on on Instagram so from from a phase of discovery to Private messaging or even enabling the conversion to happen is what we are today enabling on Instagram So not only on engagement the automation we today do Goes all the way till conversion and that's how we enable commerce even on the platform So Ending the presentation here. I know my 10 minutes is up So we are here to to deconstruct and structure your customer experience strategy And we are doing that on a turnkey and self-serve basis We would be here. We're staying back for the drinks So please to reach us and happy to talk further. Thank you. Thank you so much


Oh, hi, and how are you doing? Gordon with the Tech Star here. Welcome to another thrilling and exciting episode of Ebachi Talk. Please grab yourself a chair, a libation, and join us, and we'll talk about enterprise class security. We're not talking just cyber. We're talking about your businesses, your companies, your homes. Everything is there. Not something you would get at the big box store, like how you should do it right. I have two great guests today. But I also have the fundmeister because the security guy ain't here. He's afraid. And he's too nervous to be around all these security people. He's abroad. He's abroad, so to speak. Very abroad. Very abroad, yes. So I have the fundmeister, as everybody knows, and more money than God is sitting here at the end of the table. So I have Lisa. Hi. Lisa. Bradshaw? Yep. Bradshaw? And she's with Linnell. I can still say who you're with. I'm going to talk about, let's say Linnell, but you're the Linnell, this is a huge systems integrator. I have a lot of experience with and so on. And then we got Rich Lemon. Rich Lemon? I knew Rich when he had hair. That's right. I don't think you did. I understand. And he's also with Linnell. We're going to talk, we're going to get into the, into this whole aspect of securing your enterprise and how, and how it's changed over the decades. But first, we always like to let our viewer know who our guests are.  Where do you went to school and how did you get into this business? So I grew up in Oregon, went to school in Portland, and Go Reavers, Go Ducks. Exactly. Right again. Right again. Whatever. They're all good.  So I got into the industry and moved actually to the East Coast. And I started working for a company that was doing virtual tours online for real estate. And they took that technology and turned it into 360 imaging. And that's when I got into the security industry. And I was like 15, 16 years ago now. Let me say you were 15 and 16 years old. Yeah. Exactly right. You started? I started. Okay. Cool. And then you got at least 15 years of experience in this business. Yep. And that's changed a ton. Oh yeah, a lot. Okay, we'll cover that. It's like, Mr. Lyman, sir, where did you go to school? So I grew up in Danville, California, just a little town in the East Bay. They're near Warrior Town. Okay. So I went into the Air Force. So during the First Persian Gulf War, I was an electronics technician on a C-5 and fly around and wear a cool suit and flew around in a big airplane. So it sort of got my electronics background as it were there. And then sort of like all of us sort of fell into the security industry on accident and haven't looked back since that was 22 years ago. 22. So you had 22. So we were sitting here collectively with almost 50 years of experience in the security industry long before the hackers. That's right. Right in the beginning times. So we got some really good experience here. And then we got a guy who went to Berkeley. It doesn't matter. Cal, it's not hard school to get into. It's a real easy school to get out of. So one of the questions that comes up is like, what's the size of this industry? What's the size, and we talked about this earlier. So how big is the access controls, camera, physical security industry in this country? It's like 100 million, 10 million. Yeah, it's billions. It's billions. So I think, what did we say it was? 80 billion, I think. So it's an 80 billion with a B industry. And this is not talking about the stuff that I go to the big box stores and we're talking about. This is high-end corporate enterprise level, enterprise quality, software, hardware, right? This is what the federal government uses. Okay, defined enterprise quality, because this is something that, is it like, okay, go ahead, you tell me what it is. You know, on the most basic level, it tends to be a little bit more expensive, but that's because it's more sophisticated, right? So it's intended for those military environments, federal government agencies, cities, counties, you name it, everywhere and between. But it's high-quality products that are intended to solve unique problems, not sort of the residential application where it's inexpensive, it sort of does a little bit. It works. If it doesn't work, you throw it away and you go buy a new one. That's not really what these technologies are for. And it's really about an integration platform, right? It's about pulling all these various technologies. It's not just a door unlocking. It's not just a camera. It's intercoms and intrusion panels and data and HR systems and finance systems and you name it. And your active directories and all the computer systems. Absolutely. We're an integration company. So even some of the smaller, like mom and pop shop even, or even high-end residential, they have access to this technology now and I think they sort of expect it now. So the general population sees that they've got a 4K TV and they want that same experience in their video surveillance, for example, or they want everything integrated and they want to be able to get on their phone and see what's going on and turn on their conditioning and do all of that. And then even in the smaller and some of the cities, the police departments won't respond to alerts or alarms without visual verification. So there is some catalyst to push even smaller companies and individuals into this type of technology. And it's becoming more affordable now. It's because of the neat. It is. And if you're going to be a major player, and so we just happen to be the largest manufacturer in this space, if you're going to be a major player, you have to have a whole range of product, right? And so that range constitutes pricing and things like that. But you try to pull over the feature set as much as you can from those enterprise highly scalable solutions, highly technical solutions down into the lowest markets. And we have sister companies and partners and all kinds of things that address all of those technology questions, right? So you're not just DoD.  We can afford because of the cloud and other things to bring in a great product or a great solution set that you can provide to them. Yeah, absolutely. It's important to be able to provide that wide range of capabilities as well as cost to try to. Because every Fortune 10 company started as a small little startup at some point. Right. It's hard to remember back when Apple was sort of nothing. But look at where Apple and Facebook and Google and Salesforce, right? You go look at the San Francisco skyline now. It's being funded. Twitter, Paul Box. I go down the list of all these startups. The newest building in San Francisco is the Salesforce Tower. And it's how many stories, 20, 30 stories taller than the tallest building? It's the tallest building west of the Mississippi right now. And those have to be secure. They're highly secure, right? These are sophisticated technology companies that understand better their risks. And so we'd sort of get into that conversation about there's a lot of risk out there right now. And corporations, you talk about the Sony situation, the target situation and others. Home Depot. Home Depot where sort of apathy and not really paying attention to where the risks are perhaps led to some of those problems. And so now the other, their peers, right? All the peers of those companies that had those issues, they are looking at their entire solution set and saying, OK, that cannot happen to us. Because what was the biggest really problem with all of those situations? The stock value of those companies dropped instantly and dramatically and exponentially what have funded all the technology needed to seal those gaps. So now when we go and we talk to customers that are considering our product or other solutions, that's one of the main conversations is the cybersecurity aspect of it. And what are we doing to help combat those types of situations where people get in through any different means to access your systems and do something. Right. And cameras, I mean, I've seen it. I've seen it with clients where they have a client that has a camera that's pinging China 100,000 times a month. Why is that camera pinging China 100,000 times a month and saying, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here and there's a way into this, there's a way into this network. This is where you got to be careful. It's the two of them are together now. There used to be guys selling cameras out of the back of the car. Yeah, and some of those penetrations into those other companies that we mentioned happen through systems that we don't think of as high tech, building systems. Air conditioning system. Air conditioning system. And these are all devices now that are on the network. Right. So the network is the infrastructure. It's the internet. Everything's connected. The internet of things, right? Millions and billions of things are now interconnected in some way. Even our phones are connected, right? And so the phone becomes an interesting part of the conversation that it's now a security tool. I've got it in my pocket. Right. I mean, it is. It's a massive part of what we do today. So now, so you're a systems integrator per se because not only do you got, and this is where I think the complexity is. You've got door access, cameras. You've got credentialing. My ID, who I am, am I allowed to be on campus?  Yes, but for example, there are so many different kinds of people on that premise. That's right. There are patients. There are visitors. There are vendors. There are the employees. And how do you manage all of those individuals wandering through essentially acres of campus? There's a, because of our customer base, there's a lot of conversations we get drawn into and there's a concept called duty of care. Right. And so in certain cities, San Francisco being one of them, it is city law. It is county law that there needs to be mass notification capabilities in all these public buildings that have the public walking through them. So not only their own employees and things like that, but not Megan's law, but... Well, Megan's law is the kidnapping. Amber Alert. So the Amber Alert and things like that are writing on the backbone of a lot of these mass notification systems. And believe it or not, that becomes part of the security ecosystem. That becomes part of the solution. So we have physical access control, which is what we do. Universities, et cetera, et cetera. Even here, you know, the University of Hawaii to get the safety messages out to the students. All the students. These are all... And their parents. That's right. But these are all businesses, too. And so you think about universities and the cost. We live relatively close to Stanford. It's very expensive. UH, I imagine, is not inexpensive, right? That's a big campus. And it's a huge campus. Multiple locations. And open. Multiple locations. An extremely open, very, very difficult to secure. But think about all the parents and the loved ones that are sending their children there. If incidents happen, things like that, how many parents would pull their kids out and take them somewhere? I'm a parent. I know what I would do in that situation. So universities, all their peers, everybody's looking at all these security threats and saying, look, we need to do this for the safety of our systems, our technologies, our intellectual property, but also our assets, the students. And we need to reassure the parents and provide all these solutions to fill these gaps because they're going to walk if you don't. So Lisa, you have a comment. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say that the campus environment at a university translates over into the Silicon Valley companies around in the area, too, that we were talking about. Because they're challenges. They want an open environment. They want to be open. They want to show that people are around, that they can go wherever they want to go. But they're challenges. They want to know where their people are. And they want to know if the campus environment is on their campus that shouldn't be there. And it's really hard to do, to balance those two things. And so that's where we and our partners try to go in and realize what are the technologies out there that we can use to bridge the gap as much as possible and minimize their risk while still leaving sort of this open campus environment. Campus environment. So go ahead. I mean, kind of a two-part piece of the need and the want to provide openness, but also the administrative responsibility to provide a safe and secure environment. Which is getting tougher and tougher. And aren't those often at odds, those two things? Yes, they are. So there's some natural tension there that you really have to do both in some way. We have an interesting bubble or culture in the Silicon Valley. The millennials that are defining... My favorite topics. It's an interesting topic because they're defining the workplace now, right? So in the Silicon Valley, labor is really hard to find. And so there's a lot of... Welcome to Hawaii. That's right. It's really not that different. And so there's a lot of competition with companies. And it's a very open office environment now. So that exposes some security threat. Culturally everybody's using their phones. They're laying around on couches. And these are formal corporate environments. You know, there's nobody other than banks and things, CFOs perhaps, that aren't in Hawaii that are wearing ties. Everybody else is wearing this. Like this. Okay, with that, laying around on couches. We're going to take a minute break. What a great segue coming back on this.  Anyway, we'll be back in a minute. I got rich. And then at least I hear from Lendell, which is one of the, if not the largest physical security and cyber security systems integrator in the country with lots of experience. So we're going to take a break, pay some bills, and we'll be back in about a minute. Match day is no ordinary day. The pitch hallowed ground for players and supporters alike. Excitement builds. Game plans are made with responsibility in mind. Celebrations are underway. Ready for kickoff. MLS clubs and our supporters rise to the challenge. We make responsible decisions while we cheer on our heroes and toast their success. Elevate your match day experience. If you drink, never drive. Thank you, sir. Hello, I'm going to the Tech Star here. Welcome back to Eibachi Talk. We just paid some bills, so we're going to be around for at least another week. Hello, Eibachi Talk is so funny. Anyway, I got the fun meister over in the corner. I got Rich Lyman from Lendell Systems. I got Lisa Bradshaw from Lendell Systems, and we're talking about cyber and physical security. We also do this in a podcast, too. So we don't only do it at the same time, but at the same time. We also do this in a podcast, too. So we don't only do it at the same time. We also do this podcast, too. So for our thousands of viewers. Anyway, we were talking about people laying on couches a minute ago before we took this break. Sorry. Let the millennials give the union a shock. Anyway, so be careful. Careful.  Anyway. I know you're jelly excited. I just have to end you. I've been accused of living with a female guest, and my comment was, and? Anyway, so let's no wonder how Lello never picks us up. Anyway, so let's come back to that because then we got the millennials who are used to an open environment. Don't want to see the cameras around. And cameras are more than cameras today. But so how are you dealing with this cultural thing? I mean, I personally don't care if I'm being watched. I really, I really feel like I am, so it doesn't matter. But how do you deal with this, especially in your industry, in your business? I read an article the other day that said the millennials are now the largest generation that we've ever had on this planet. And there's sort of a huge shift between the generation before that perhaps I'm part of and the next. And it's very open. There's a lot of competition. They expect everything on their phones. And it's changed the look and feel of the workplace. It's changed the look and feel of our software. And so we've really had to, we hired a whole group of people just to work on user experience. So we've always talked about GUI's and graphical interfaces. And nobody ever really asked the why. So that was the what and the how. And you show up to work and you sit at this desk and the computer's bolted to the table. I think the current generations, the newer generations are asking why. We've heard somebody else talk about exactly why. Live life. Take the technology where you are. Get as much work done as you can wherever you are. And so it's actually affecting our industry and the way we develop software. That's pushing us into the cloud. It's pushing us into browsers and things that work on any kind of technology you have. It has to just work, right? Companies like this have defined this for us, right? And it's us folks that are sort of from those previous generations that are really struggling with these concepts. But it's the millennials that will be the next CFOs, that will be the next IT director. Well, some of them already are and they're putting me over the edge. Or already are. That's right. What I find interesting is that the here's the thing about the millennials, I do, I love them to death because they're just the way they forward thing is that but what I'm finding is the millennials that they don't adapt the cloud as much as I think they would. You know, I'm a senior citizen dude. I'm a great grandfather. I embrace the crowd, the crowd. But I find the millennials go like they want to bring the servers back in-house and hug them over in a corner. It's driving me crazy. Yet they want all this openness. They went, well, I don't want a badge. I just want to be able to walk by the reader, know my phone is there and allow me to get in the door. That's how it's got. And that's a reality today. So those technologies are real and you can actually do that and there's value to that. I think culturally those, which is really important. There's this, again, there's this tension, right? They want new, fast, cool, mobile, all of these things. They want this user experience that's very different than the user experience. We've sort of all put up with our workplaces and life and such. And yet, they're not embracing some of these these millennial concepts like the cloud, whereas the rest of us are sort of just resigned to, I've been giving out my social security number for 35 years. And if you don't know it by now, then shame on you. That's right. That's right. But it is redefining, I think, the way we But you're in this, Lisa, you're in this, you're in this, this group, this, the millennial cusp area and so on. So you got to be struggling with the old folks like us who have our, we're used to signing in on a piece of paper and don't care. There's someone else who says, I'm not signing in. Well, and so I think I'm sort of, for myself, I'm always looking to see, so that's why I'm in the security industry and why I stayed in the security industry because of technology and because of the movement of things. So I think if you look at it that way and always sort of see, you know, how are we going to make things easier for people and still mitigate any risk that's there. So I think when you start talking about the cloud and everything moving to the cloud and people being really conscious about that, people just don't know whether it's really safe or not. So I think as we begin to realize it is safe, it's safer than what you can do otherwise. You still have accessibility. It's cheaper. It's faster, whatever. Right. That's more secure. The adoption rate will go up. I think there's, we talked about early adopters and there's a, it's at that stage. We look at Salesforce.com. We use that for our Salesforce automation software. I don't even think twice about it. Yeah, it's just a way of life. It's just there. It's like electricity turning on the light and it's there. When you start talking about video and stuff that has a lot more bandwidth and that sort of thing, it may be a little more difficult in enterprise scale solutions to use that kind of technology.   It's crazy.  I mean, give me a break. Get real. And where the state of video is gone is now we're talking about 4K, right? So it's this beautiful quality picture takes exponentially more bandwidth and more storage. And so here we are sort of fighting against, yeah, I mean, we're from the Silicon Valley. There's a lot more bandwidth there, but we're taking four times the data now that we were before. The reality is these now, we can use the cameras on phones and stream them into these enterprise video platforms and record them live.  First responders that know what to do. That's the thing. Police. Can you imagine a first responder say, oh, by the way, here on my iPad, this is what we've got going on. That's right. Here's this camera in the back. Here's this over here. We've got this over here. We've got this over here. It's all right when they walk up to the door. And we can do that today. That's right. Affordably we can do that today. Absolutely. And I have clients that are on my phone and cameras on one side and opening doors on the other. That's right. Just doing it right there. It's today's technology. It's real. I think adoption is a whole other conversation, right? Our industry tends to be a little laggard in that sense. Tends to be a little conservative because of the nature of who are the directors and who run these security departments in these corporations. But that's where the next couple of generations maybe change this dramatically. So you brought up a good point. So where are the security departments? Typically the security departments I think reported to the maintenance department or something. Maintenance facility, but now it's IT and interestingly enough it's finance, it's HR, it's things you wouldn't expect, but it makes sense, right? It is a critical business function, right? It is life safety. It is the protection of intellectual property. It's riding on the backbone of the infrastructure of all of our businesses and our homes, it's wireless networks, it's the IT infrastructure. And so there needs to be synergy there and so they're finding it just makes more sense to just have them report up through those departments in the organization. That have the business in mind. So I'm going to jump to another because I've tried to cover so much. What about ACLU? I just love, I throw this law this out of nowhere. ACLU because when I was with the sitting and counting of Honolulu we tried to put in some cameras for APEC to secure the areas. I had to fight ACLU to allow me to put cameras in just to monitor what was going on to protect the citizens. So how's that? Is that changing? Is the mindset changing in that space? There may be a tough question for you to ask because it's out of nowhere but it's there. I think every organization has a different sort of read on that. I think as technology providers, as trusted advisors we just sort of have to educate the market, our markets that we sell into on what are the various technologies that are available to you and what can you do if you have those challenges, right? As an example, cameras. If you need to mask off an area so that sensitive information or people or someone's children or whatever it is, those are capabilities of today's of modern technology. Cameras are smart enough to know that. That's right. They're smart enough to know that. They have analytics built into them now. They can do a lot of things people probably don't understand that they can do. I know I saw one of the things where there was I think it was one of your systems monitoring an area and a bag was showing up and a bag showed up in a particular area and this didn't make sense. It was a backpack. It's like, wait, this backpack has been sitting there for way too long, unattended, alert, right? Not like, boom, sending police and everything but there's something, an anomaly there and the smarts are in the systems to do that now. Yeah, and that's object left behind and things like that, right? Yeah, they could have just forgot and got on the bus and left it sitting on the bench. No, I'm just was going to say the video analytics side of the business has been sort of stop and start and stop and start but I think now they've become just features on a camera. So you buy a camera and you don't even know that they potentially are even there and you can combine multiple analytics to create a sort of a situation that then can become actionable whereas before you would never even have that. And I'll add to this I'll take a twist a little bit so it's not in the preventive side of the client that we're using camera analytics when people went into their store to track which counters they went to and which products they bought and which products they abandoned and based on that analytics they were determining product the box the package the placement how much it costs how much it costs and they were doing at that level. Interesting. Maybe the demographics of the customer as well. That's true For example the fundmeisters they ain't going to spend any money. But it's but it's lovely broad mind. Believe it or not we have burned through the entire show in no time but when you guys come back in the next quarter you here promise me to come on the show again we continue this story as it turns out so we've got Rich Lyland Lisa Bradshaw I keep my light I want to change the name something Lisa Bradshaw Rich Lyland from Linnell System thank you guys Meisters thank you very much as we again as we always say at the end of your show one, two, three hi hi