Thank you so much Hong for coming today and all the work that you do with FOS Asia and OSI and for stepping up to take on Josh's role today, so I know that was last minute. Thank you very much again for having me and I'm so excited to play a moment so yeah and please introduce yourself too as well. Yes I will yeah so thank you for having me I'm going to speak about building bridges between open source communities based on the story of FOS Asia and disappearance I can offer the past ten years of building community in Asia. A little bit about myself I'm one of the founders of the FOS Asia organization and I also act as the vice president at the open source initiative and work on an inner-source topic as Solando. So based on what I've written here I don't want to say I'm really lucky to be able to work with different communities in three continents around the world and I'm really looking forward to to share more of the stories today. A little bit about FOS Asia and the journey of how we actually building a community in the start. So FOS Asia basically the idea is to foster open source movement in Asia and the regions met like over ten years ago. Of course open source term is already there but you know when you look at the the contribution map of people around the world Asian community in also central and our ideas were to foster more the open source adoption and also increase the number of contribution coming from this part of the world. So what do we actually do so for Asia organization we focus on three main areas. As many other open source organization open stack or root pool fedora we develop software and we release of course our software and projects under open source license everything can be found on on GitHub. We also organize a lot of events in order to bring people together. So we have a similar to the open-shape comments we have the FOS Asia summit that happened every year in Singapore and throughout the year. We organize smaller event and we help in different cities where FOS Asia members are. We and apart from that we organize program online program where people can participate. We have coding contest we're doing hackatons and collaborate with the university and college to deliver some courses online. How do we sustain the operation of the organization basically through software as a service we also offer hardware merchandise we organize the fun events from sponsorship and we offer consulting services. So these are just some photo of our developers in the FOS Asia community and I would like to give some numbers so that we can have a little picture of the scale and the size of the community. We hosted all our projects on on GitHub and mostly every 15 minutes there will be a most food quest. We have about 35,000 people subscribed into the mailing list and social media. On GitHub we have around 4,000 developers of course not everyone is active but like people come in and are over the years and through the programs that we run every year we train about 2,000 new joiner and developers to contribute to open-sort project not only from the FOS Asia project but many people contribute to project that foster in the whole ecosystem. We often organize meetings and event where people can get together in a smaller group according to their location. We maintain an FOS Asia blog with about 100 plus authors written technical articles related to projects that we develop. So these are a few projects that we develop with the FOS Asia community over the years. So say I which is in alternative to Google Home or Alexa Echo. We have our own source engine like a suspect. We have an open-sort game, Labydream or Melix, our own desktop environment. PocketSignLab on the top right you can see BSLab.io is an open-sort hardware that we fostered recently in the event management system. So many different topics based on the interests of the community and I would like to go a little bit back into the history what brought us here today. So in 2009 my partner Mario Bellin and I founded the FOS Asia with the goal to connect community in Asia with the global FOS developers as mentioned earlier. And in this year so the first thing that we released to connect with the community we hosted the GNOME Asia the first time in Vietnam. And by doing this we got connected with people, GNOME users. There's many Linux user groups around Asia, the neighboring country in Vietnam, in Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia and many more. So when we hosted the GNOME Asia event the first time in Vietnam we got connected with the GNOME Foundation where we get many speakers coming from GNOME and we learned from them how they run the community at the same time. We take this chance to connect with the local Linux user group and started to develop our own Linux distribution as mentioned it was the core of the Melix one of our Linux distribution later on. In 2010 so we continued to kickstart more projects and this year we hosted the mini DevCon where we get connected with the DPN community. DPN of course had a very long history of development and we were very lucky to get many DPN developers to join us and share their knowledge, how they set up infrastructure and how they draw the communities about their project. We take them as an example and continue to build up the community around our projects and in this year we move on from the GNOME Asia Summit to host the FOSS Asia Summit the idea to bring different projects together GNOME, DPN, VLC and we basically we opened a platform that invite different organizations who wanted to connect with the Asian community. So for many people reaching out to Asia is not only about localization to get to entry the number of users but with the hope that they can gain the contributors through the very big Asian community and we started to open the platforms invite many different projects to join us. This is some picture taken in 2010. I want to share a little bit of lesson learned from this. So when we started to build a community in Asia one thing that we find very important is to understand the community landscape which is to understand the demographic what kind of people that involve that surrounding participates region what kind of programming languages that are interested in their profile their basic knowledge and of course we need to understand like what are the barriers for people to participate in open-source projects for instance back then in Vietnam English is still a barrier is not the case right now as people getting much better in communication with different languages but in the beginning it was difficult to get people on board and we need to understand the interests of the community in this region of course like unlike Europe or America. Traveling from places to places is a big thing for for Asian people especially we don't have the you know vis-à-vis restriction from places to places it's very difficult mega difficult for people to travel and that's why there's a lot of desire from the community that they can go out of their country to connect with other people and we see that this is an opportunity how to motivate people to to engage. In 2011 we focused on design topics so we connect with people by organizing more open design events so basically show people what are the things that they can do with face software so there are many of course there are a lot of problems that we can fix with software but we realize that there is an interest in young people in this region around graphics design so we show them what kind of liberal tools are available that they can make use of for their projects and this year we actually connect with the liberal graphics community many designers and artists coming from from Europe to join our design week and they bring in their knowledge and experience of how to not only use open soft tooling for design but how to share design and how to contribute back to projects like game or in-scale and it's a basis for for us to reach out to more people like from university from our students and design to foster more the adoption of open source. This is some pictures in 2011 and the lesson that we learned this year to get to the community you need to be part of the community of course you need to to see to bring to bring software that satisfy the need of the people in this case it was designed and and out for the student in that university work with positive brain and image so of course the people want to associate with a positive community that doing cool thing that help the ecosystem and one thing that we focus a lot for our community is to show people that the opportunities that open source can bring to them like recognition the opportunity in the future that they can get a job or they can have get a chance to travel elsewhere to connect with other community members and one thing that the tooling that you that you use and choose for your development should be something that the local community or the members that you want to reach out that you want to engage a cost a custom with in 2012 we continue to develop more application and that was also our second year of google summer code this is one application Femme app which allows you to to send photo in different social media and so we have the advantage for for being part of some like coding program like you know some of us giving a chance for us to connect with projects all over the world so during this so as you know if some of you participate in the program you understand that the contribution that you get from this program sometimes is not so big because the student needs a lot of guide and an effort from the mentor to contribute but through this program we got a chance to connect with over 300 different organizations and projects around the world that open up many possibilities for us and many learning opportunities how we can improve the practice and the approach that we that we want to follow in our own organization and in 2013 we continue to foster open source in education and moving our infrastructure to host this solution so at that time before this year so we run everything on ourselves but we started to realize that we want to focus more on development rather than spending time to maintain the infrastructure so we decided to move our projects to GitHub yeah so some people also asked why GitHub not not GitLab or not an open source tooling but our decision was based on the people that we have in the community the developers as on GitHub so we just had to make the decision where people more accustomed to this is some workshop that we organized through our Vietnam in collaboration with school and university um yeah so this is in 2014 we moved the First Asia Summit to Cambodia and this is also the year that we started our first open source hardware projects uh this is the pocket science lab and they um this is the one the the latest version actually before when it wasn't like this the reason why we uh we wanted to to invest our time and effort into open source hardware because one of the participants of the First Asia Summit was a teacher coming from India came to us with a problem asking us how we can make a science topic more interesting for the students many students in India they don't have access to devices and the same as our East Asia in order to learn basic automatic experiment if there is something that they can touch they can measure could be much better and more interesting for for for the young student and he asked us whether is there anything in the open source that he can use so that was the reason why we said okay so this is an interesting problem to solve and some of our developers really interested in the hardware development therefore I decided to develop this pocket science lab so so basically it's a small device that has many features built in for instance oksiloscope multimeter logic analyzer weight generator everything built inside the device you just need to connect it together with us with your mobile phone through ruin app and then you can just use this as a normal oksiloscope or multimeter yeah and we we release the design open source the firmware also open source and this project brought us a lot of opportunity to connect with the hardware and community in in china so we produce this hardware in sunshine at that time one of our community member who spoke actually chinese go to china connect with many local community there is a do-it-yourself community in sunshine and we also have many years connection with the linux user group there and this was this project was give us a chance to we will give us a chance to to work closely with the people and engage with them on on this project something that we learn from from the hardware production that i want to share with you production in china right it's always easier if you have a chinese speaking person and if you reach out to the local community they are more than willing like to help you and support you along the way it is a longer development cycle compared to software high investment and high risk of course in order to to make this investment you need to think of a self-funding model before you do so the build of materials this is something that normally if you need to do a prototype of production the manufacturer will ask for the build of materials that you need to send them in advance and many other things that you need to to understand for instance re-manufacturers offer which is something that's cheaper than the normal paths but you need to like pay attention that need to test everything and you need to understand like holidays is a schedule of the manufacturers and their availability so these are some of the lessons that we learn from hardware production of course i'm not going to go into detail we have we document the work and if you are interested in doing hardware we can share more later in 2015 that was the year that we moved our false asia summit to to singapore and and started to home the false asia summit in singapore the reason why we pick singapore or as the place if you are familiar with the policy in ancient country so singapore is really open and inflexible unlike many places to run an event in singapore you do not require an event license yeah and the government have a strong support to to the tech community and also to open source community so that's why we we moved to singapore in this year beside the false asia summit hosted in singapore we also partnered up with the open tech in in europe where we organized together the open tech summit europe so basically this is the continued version of the linux path if you if some of you know about the linux trust after the linux test ended a few people in the community want to continue the momentum that's why we work together with them to run the annual open tech summit in in Berlin in the same year we started to work on event yay system which is our own open source event management management that help us do to run our events so if you can think of something like event pride or or shade so so this is include payment system call for speaker in scheduling that anything that you can think of as an organizer point of view so everything included in in this event yay system in 2016 we launched the code heat online coding program as mentioned earlier to help people to to guide people how to actually contribute to do to open source projects in a practical way so basically what they do is to go on on github and fix issue or open pull request directly and get comment and guide and fundamental directly on on the issues so so basically we we give the prize we send out prices like certificate a squag and also the winner can can join us at the false asia summit in in singapore and we only train for three seasons three season and every season we got about six hundred fifty to seven hundred participants and two thousand more school pull request every every season this is some of the outreach activity that our community member have us to organize in in india lesson that we learned from from this year and of course so a when when you run any program or when you want to get contributed to your projects you need to have a very clear expectation in we try to keep every repository of false asia with a contribution guidelines making very easy for people to to find the answer or to set up locally and we also encourage peer reviewers the minimum two reviewers for pull request and we try to promote mental rules developers we started to realize that people are very happy to have each other so when you have people when you have somebody to to fix a problem it's feel that a big achievement and a lot of our members like to do to mentor the new commerce so we foster more and power people into this direction siren have workshop so this is some of other activity we do in in belgium india and similar to siren have day in in singapore in 2017 we we developed the documented the best practices that we published on our on our blog there's some of the things of course like everyone is here probably aware of this but it's always important to writing down and to direct people into the documentation so some of the practices that we share was to march issue with the pull request or to break big issue into smaller issue to always provide test for whatever you build i i i mean like listening to the talk today and like test for mentioned a lot and of course it the same for for many open source project change so so make sure that you state your changes in the pull request and encourage people to review each other prs and document a wide coding earn to write access so basically there are different access level in the project and people should earn it by by their contribution and one thing that we learn after many years is to stop people from having private chat so if anything related to development of a project we we encourage people stop to to pin the the maintainer or developer but rather have the conversation directly on on our like public github channel of the project and in the same year we develop suci ai as i mentioned earlier this is an open source conversational framework and and with our experience in building hardware we again prototype this speaker based on the the recipe pie and then we and then we actually got in touch with the dbn community that had to package for for suci for for dbn and the project is to continue to develop until today but it's just some of the features one nice thing about this project is the skill cms so we try to engage more non-technical people non-technical contributor into the development so we try by default making very easy for contributors we develop the skills cms that allow people to read a skill skill basically a light of code that had that allow you to to connect with to speak to the device and people can write skill similar to how did Ryan wiki pd a beta article in 2018 we go out more to connect with our community by having events in india redoing you got first a hack tackling the indian way and then we also partner up with unesco to organize hackathon in vietnam and in singapore and this is our event with the hardware community in china and one thing that we've been doing for the past four or five years which is to bring our community to participate in the ccc the cows computer congress this is the biggest hacker conference in europe in germany so many projects that are there i think last year's was 16 000 people and we learned a lot from from from the participants here people we have a both there people come by and give us advice how to to fix our design on the hardware and we get the chance to connect with many other projects in 2019 last year we celebrate our anniversary and like i'm very proud that we managed to go through this 10 years and of course it's not the end for us we continue to work more the first project that we the first new project of 2019 was to to take over voice republic and really this this project opens all this is an audio streaming platform that used by many type in art events and as the maintainers not be able to to continue anymore we take it over and force is under the force asia umbrella in this year we also launch the force asia academy with the hope that to to offer courses and lessons to to do more um students or our open source this is some of the workshop we run with our partner in singapore in 2020 for this is a year of challenges for us what happened this year earlier this year in in january and february we organized our open tech summit in bangkok and in yangon before the pandemic for the first time we organized the materials of online offline event of the force asia summit in singapore where we learn a lot just like the end of today about how to learn and learn how to run an offline event for us it was also a huge lesson of how to streaming and do everything ourselves we because all the all the problems that happening around covic 19 production become very difficult in china and also distribution some shipping and everything so we explore the possibility of local production so we participate in one project with the with the EU of how to foster an ecosystem where you can build your own design locally you make a hardware you send the the design into a maker space or the fab lab and produces yourself and last month we also partnered up with UNESCO IBM and SAP children the hackathon called the curve on solution around covic 19 one thing that we want to focus on this year seeing people so it's difficult for people to get face-to-face connected we we hope to to focus more on documentation around our projects like a thing it makes my thing easier for people to get on board and we we we also learn every day how to maintain a healthy and connected community during this this time and for the past few months that we've been working on the next version of event yeh vs lab in susie line a quick summary of what i mentioned i hope that that is so i don't go too much over time so we just end very quickly develop best practices and friendly and open community constantly attracting new talents through coding programs so most of the coding programs run online and remoting mentor roles so you need to understand what your contributors and developer want to want to achieve and want to do and give them the opportunity to to do what they like and of course in order to sustain the development you need to think of different income stream and model that can fund your project running a lean organization and infrastructure with more also with a small team so if instead of investing in infrastructure if you can also the infrastructure and make it a more lightweight so your developer can focus on development and partner up with other enterprise and other false projects so as mentioned we partner up with with other projects but open up a platform for them to join us at foster we also work to with partner with with the with the tour or we have friends from from bloc so we also promote mech louse and we are a big fan of other open source tooling and at the same time in foster collaboration people also use our software test our software and give us feedback okay so if you i just want to invite you to check our event if you run event online and later later this year we're going to launch the open hardware campaign where we show people how to be open hardware what kind of licensing and and how do you how you can produce locally we have we're running coding programs like code heat and hackatons we are welcome to it's other organization to reach out to us to to connect with our communities many projects of us are valuable on github if you want to check out the the code or want to participate and finally the false asia academy is on if you have any causes or lesson that you want to share with reach out to us you can find false asia on lint end on twitter github and you can also find my contact easily there if you would like to to reach out to me i'm i'm happy to share any lesson that i learned during the past few years and this is the end of this presentation awesome thank you very much so those of you didn't realize we threw hung into the fire here at the last minute and she has done a tour to force in giving us the the the background and the history of all the collaborations that false asia has done it really it's impressive well hung has been talking we've been having in the chat some in a couple of chat spaces some interesting conversations as well one of the things that really impressed me with the work that you do is your emphasis on coding workshops and events around coding to drive contribution and community engagement and and that that's something that we're you know honestly we we do a lot of in open shift on the corporate side of the stuff but not so much on the open source side of things and i think that's that's something like a big takeaway for me is as people have been starting to ask us about you know could you host an open shift commons boot camp on such and such or this and and i'm wondering if that's is that a one of what you would consider one of the keys to your success is having all these face-to-face things and then the corollary to that is how are you going to run those now in a world that's gone virtual due to covet it and i think you're you're muted again you're self-muted there hung there you go should be unmuted can you hear me now i can hear yes there you go okay okay good so um do um yeah so during the coveted dimension do you want to assemble so we uh together with uh UNESCO so we hold the online uh hackathon where people can come together to work on on the topic and then we also promoting different projects that being done in in asia for instance i don't know if you're aware of the um the trace to break together projects released by the singapore government under open source so um and in taiwan as well so there are many initiatives that going on at the moment what we learned so far is that each region they started their own initiatives and there is a lack of communication and the lack of unification how people can actually come together and share what they have developed so so i believe that people everywhere also seem to like develop similar solutions like chase together in vietnam we have our own solutions Cambodia our own solutions so i think the thing that we we want to do now is to actually bring people together i i'm really appreciate to have a chance to be here today just like you then you want to create a platform where people can actually share what's going on um around this topic and uh our hope would also drew us more project in asia could present and um and and and and being heard and more visible to to the people from from the west yeah yeah i think i think that's one of the the key thing me there's always the time zone challenges which uh alana and gris and everybody else uh have have accepted and taken on that challenge today so thank you uh and alana i i know you work with um hung and you're also on the board of osi and hung you've got a secret identity there is a the vp of the osi initiative but um alana in in your work at the osi level um can you talk a little bit about how osi has been helping to bridge some of those um between different communities absolutely uh yeah i'm i'm the chair of the membership committee and so one of the things that i work on within the osi is engagement with affiliate members and actually it was really great coming on uh like sort of the top of the hour when i did because one of the folks that i have been engaging with a lot in my affiliate meetings has been theory uh so uh one of the things that we have been doing is holding quarterly meetings for all of our affiliate representatives to come together and about topics that are important to them talk about how the osi can support them and facilitate those conversations and we're experimenting with a few different things and then as far as time zones go because it is a global community i tend to hold two of these calls so i'll hold one aimed at like asia pacific time zones and one aimed at like m as a europe middle east africa time zones because i'm in the united states i have to be able to attend both so my time zone is not optional but um that's one of the things that we are doing and we're currently working on investigating like other ways that we could potentially support our members and uh you know bridge these uh different communities uh one of the things that we have upcoming as well as here is a state of the source uh conference a virtual conference we haven't held one before so i think that's still in the planning stages but uh very exciting so so gris um being from google and um google has a wonderful google of summer and all kinds of wonderful coding events and things that help bring people together what what what do you see as some of the useful tools that we might take away from um to bridge some of these communities yeah so actually some of the experience that i have it's outside google and i think like i can i can relate a lot to to what han was saying like last year i partnered with a few people down in mexico i'm originally from mexico and we have been doing a lot of efforts to bring open source communities and participation of latin folks in open source projects and the challenge across latin america is that so many countries have different initiatives that are there are so also like disconnected then last year we created this event called the cumbre de contribuidores the open source software which is like the first summit of contributors for open source open source software in latin america and that event helped us realize about all uh initiatives going in so many countries that we couldn't connect so what what did i learn from that first event was that uh what han said it's very challenging to learn what is happening in the world if you were living one of these countries so you are somewhat disconnected like we heard a lot of stories that language is one barrier in which you cannot access these events but also you are not in the know of like when are this happening where should i travel to how should i like register even to some of the foundations that do open source and because language and availability of these resources is such a high barrier these people don't engage so that that is potentially what how some segregation right and now speaking a little bit to what we have done at google going into these global programs like google summer of code or internships that we like this year for for instance we're hosting uh interns from around the globe to work in open source um projects given that we are distributed i think the fact that google is such a well-known institution kind of makes people gravitate towards that so there's people like find like searching on the internet or trying to do research they will find programs driven by google but they won't find programs driven by less known communities like this community we were trying to to foster in mexico or the same community that somebody was trying to foster in argentina or in other spanish-speaking country so i think like just bridging those those gaps on like how do we let other people know that we're working similar efforts and that these things are happening is is is a key and for like actually alana i think like some of the people who created this this organization with us in mexico attended one of the quarterly partners meeting and it was such a moment of realization of oh my god there's so many communities so many resources that we need to leverage and now they have ideas on how to like connect and stop reinventing the wheel but start partnering more with the central tools and services that's so awesome to hear yeah yeah i think that's like organizations like osi um have have do do a really nice service of of like helping to bridge all of that information um and and do that and the interesting thing for me is today like i didn't expect um to hear like the history of fos asia um or to learn more about what's going on in open infrastructure um in the summit and that and different places but i also think that um as community development people as people who are managing this running foundations participating foundations that we are kind of the glue like the hallway conversations that we all have when we're at at oscon I wore my oscon memorial hoodie here but these events where we actually get to go to is where i would meet people like gris or with daniel or alana or hung in in the past and and now without them um one of this this is my um little attempt today at trying to bridge um and re glue us all together again so we can find out what each other is doing um because we're we're missing that i mean we are in some of us we're in our technology silos right so i'm definitely in a cloud native uh silo very kubernetes centric kind of world these days with a dash of open stack and prometheus and about 20 other initiatives but i i don't hear about what's going on in asia or mexico um as much than other than throughout through my colleagues at red hat who are down there who say okay diane we need you to do something here or find someone to speak there so i i think events like today which i i really love hosting things like this where we keep showcasing different initiatives and around the globe um and and i like alana's idea about um having the two meetings i've seen that kube flow does that um some you know other initiatives do they have one in the morning one in the evening and hopefully in my schedule i can get somewhere because i'm always in west coast time which is always meeting in the middle but um i i think that's really part of it too is is the language barriers um and the time zone issues that we have and and not ignoring them like not trying really hard not to be north american and mea centric is really um that and then having having making sure we make the bridges to the other communities and to the other regions is really been um is key because when i usually think when i think when i initially talked about doing this talk i was thinking about bridging other open source projects like in the cloud native states that was really i i'll be honest it wasn't about bridging regions and organizations it was more about that but i think you've turned my perspective on its head so i don't daniel if you want to add in something on that oh yeah it was i was so you know i'm part of the inner source commons um and one of the first uh contributions we are we are having the community are translations the translations specifically to chinese and japanese and german and french maybe so those are kind of the very first uh well kind of easy places to go and help the community and this is at the same time you are lowering the barrier you are entering to the community because then you are having this translated to other languages and that's absolutely great so yeah so i was i was thinking about how to engage with new contributors and then i was linking this idea with what he already said before about how you grow the next generation of leaders for the community so how can this be and instead of being so perhaps in even uh english centric or so even when this is this is the language that we all understand each other or or some of us at least um how to grow the community to other areas of the world um even more i know that yeah and i've been talking to you several times about the cultural differences this book i was reading the cultural map which is absolutely great um perhaps i know how to talk with other spaniards because i'm really from spain or or to some other people but then when you change the country or or the you know the cultural background it's like oh so what do you do now and so i would like to bring the the work we are doing with uh together with the asf so chris is the position of dp of t and i right yes um so maybe maybe you can you can bring some more insights about the some of the survey results we have yes uh so to daniel point a very interesting hypothesis that we have been exploring is that concept of cultural differences because even the like open source is global and you expect people to collaborate on the same projects and oftentimes we don't take like step back and understand two things that the person that is working with you and solving the same issue might come from a different working culture where that person might be waiting for permission or validation or acknowledgement before making a contribution and you are expecting that person to just go get it because that because that is what you understand as open source so that is one of the of the concepts that we were researching with with daniel on the asf and we have this also another concept which is the cultural migrants migrants the person who like was born and raised in a culture but later in life moved to either study or work in a different culture who has had that switch of like the need to adapt and understand multiple cultures because that kind of like opened your perspective into being able to to notice and and see like oh maybe that person is trying you know like is waiting for me to respond or waiting for me to to collaborate in something whereas like people who haven't experienced that it's harder for us to think that you know like beyond the screen beyond the open source project that might be other nuances that that can be helping us you know like stay within the same group of people the same project and not really bridging all the the cultural richness so that is one of the insights that that one of the hypotheses that we have been investigating and I think it's very interesting to see so when when do you think you'll have the results of this research that you could come back and share it with us again I think that's it's really I think everybody in our heads we know that it's true we just don't know all how it's happening and what we can do to facilitate better conversations and people's engagement in our community so I think that will be the interesting thing for the application of that. Yes so these research that Daniel and also another professor alike there's there's multiple people behind this research but the the research had three stages the first stage was like a survey in which we just collected information from people at the ASF we're moving into a second phase in which we are going to be applying interviews precisely to deep dive into these hypotheses and understand more on how can we facilitate or improve those those situations so at the end we also have a third stage in which we're going to do like an analytic quantitative analysis to kind of like ground the research and so your question was like by when right now we already have the survey finished and we're going to be sharing it soon right then Daniel? Yeah yeah we we had a couple of dates already so Asia Pacific friendly and Europe and Middle East Africa friendly so the first one is this 19th so this Friday right? Yes and it's public it's going to be open it's going to be recorded so we're going to be sharing the results. Perfect. The important part though is that this this first sharing only contains the survey results I think like the rounded report we're looking to write will come when we have the interviews and the quantitative analysis to again like have a very well rounded insights and recommendations. So Ilana and Hong is this resonating with you this kind of creating some awareness around cultural differences and you know I know you Hong you were talking about being able to get some exposure for the initiatives for FOS Asia but is that is it a one of the other limiting factors is is the cultural differences or different approaches to how communities engage? I'll let Hong speak to that one I think she's got more experience with the international events that I do. Yeah so yes so I mentioned earlier in my talk of course I think cultural differences is something that we really need to to look into as you know a lot of discussion around the world right now about how do you behave in a certain way so there is a huge movement around the code of conduct and sometimes when people it's exactly like what Chris says earlier so if you want to make a PR you don't know if you should wait for somebody to approve it's really around like the differences in the culture when I try to communicate something some people talk to me very directly and to you maybe you offend it and then you should there's certain way so people should be aware of the background of their contributor where they come from I think that this is a very interesting research I don't know like based on this research what can we do because at first you let people aware and then what can happen and what kind of action that they should take in order to limit misunderstanding and and to to build a more collaborative and open community so I think this is a goal yeah so I think that the the research on on different cultures and the effect on how people behave on certain communities would be interesting but what is more interesting is based on this what kind of guidelines or practice that we we should promote like some people feel worried these days I heard a lot of people from the communities I don't know if I should say something maybe some people would say that I violated the rule of communication and I might offend somebody so you never know so it's so people should at least learn to be aware of this thing and and and and make other people feel comfortable yeah so I think that yeah I think it's it's definitely I want to see we all intuitively know that there's cultural differences it's how do we take what you learn in your in the the ASFs and the research you're doing and and the experiences and the practices and and turn those into best practices and share them around the world so people can better create better and healthier engagement practices and I I too think that the code of contact stuff is incredibly important even today we were getting trolled online a little bit so we had you know some issues and you know and Chris who is our producer handled them nicely so but I also think that it's it's it's interesting and it's such a challenge it's such a challenge to do and and I'm really grateful that you're that you're sharing this information with us today and but I really do want to see how we can take what you learn and apply it in our practices I think that's the next step one is uncovering the data and I think we try we try and we fail and we learn and we keep moving you know forward the processes but I also think that we there's a lot more outreach especially to Asia and Latin cultures that in the Kubernetes world and the cloud native world that we could do better CNCF has done some great work standing up events in China and around around the world in different places but I still still think there's a lot lot more that we can do and that I can do and so giving giving the podium to you guys as often as possible is really I think one of the keys here and is and you know the time zone challenges are one thing but I think I can get up at night I don't mind you're staying up late and wherever you are but it seems I don't know what it is but everybody has got more light in their background than I do it's been great it's been pouring rain all day today in gray so it's like I might as well be still sleeping so but I'm just very grateful for the work that all of you have done at the asf at osi at fos asia in the inner source because it's it's it's interesting it's like this rubik's cube right so there's cultural stuff there's time zone stuff there's technology layers there's inner source pieces so whether this is you know a collaboration between a bunch of corporations trying to build a product to be sold enterprises or enterprises trying to apply open source practices to their internal processes there's so many aspects to community engagement and how you know you even see this with inner source I I see at least sometimes is that enterprises prohibit their employees from contributing or participating actively in open source projects so there's like all of these barriers to participation and I think in some way and I keep coming back to this and maybe it's because I've been drinking the kool-aid all day today is that the community development people people like yourselves and the other 24 folks who have been on today are really kind of the glue they're the conduit of these practices and sharing them with um with each other and making sure that when we find out the research from your survey and from we learn the lessons from the fos asia stories that we can carry those stories back and imply them wherever we are and whatever technology inch and and try and bridge those communities because I actually think even though it's the work that Daniel and I have done have been like to identify who are the people that connect in between projects that that's not enough it's the people who have the maybe not higher in better level but like an overview of all of these different things um that that will help us bridge some of these um cultural um and uh inclusivity issues and diversity issues um and create more podiums for people to stand up on and share their stories and that's my hope all of this and I know that all of the work that's going on in your communities and the foundations that you work on is part of that process so I can't thank you enough for participating and showing up today even with the time zone challenges um and sharing your stories so I Daniel I don't know if you want to add in a few words or Hong or if there's anything else you'd like to add and make sure that you points you've got across oh I would say I would say that thank you all all of the speakers all of the AMA panelist all everyone that has made this a successful day I learned a ton of things so yeah thank you all for for your time today


Hi and welcome to the session. I am Deepika here. Let's discuss a question find the principal value of sine inverse minus 1 by 2. Now we know that if the function is y is equal to sine inverse x its domain is close interval minus 1 to 1 and the range of its principal value branch is is minus pi by 2 close interval minus pi by 2 to pi by 2 So this is a key idea behind our question We will take the help of this key idea to solve our question. So let's start the solution let y is equal to sine inverse minus 1 by 2 or let Sine inverse minus 1 by 2 is equal to y then Sine y is equal to minus 1 by 2 and this is equal to minus sine pi by 6 and This is again equal to Sine of minus pi by 6 Because sine of minus theta is equal to minus sine theta now the range of the principal value branch of sine inverse Close interval minus pi by 2 to pi by 2 of minus pi by 6 Is equal to minus 1 by 2 therefore principal value of Sine inverse minus 1 by 2 is Minus pi by 6 so the answer for the above question is Minus pi by 6. I hope the question is clear to you. Why and take care


Employment rates among refugees are low worldwide, especially in the first years after arrival. We asked ourselves if there's a cost-efficient and effective way to change this with a solution that could be used worldwide. We looked into a lot of data of refugees that arrived or came to Switzerland and the United States in the last decades. And the results showed a very clear story. The place people are sent to matters for their integration. So the city or town someone goes to can really act as an on-ramp towards successful integration or an obstacle. And we are looking into this in more detail. We really want to set out and change the way this is done today with a simple but powerful idea because today refugees are allocated at random within countries. And what we want to do is really match people to places where they are most likely to find a job. The way we do this is that we developed an algorithm that uses existing data that we have on refugees and identifies the synergies between people's characteristics and places. With machine learning and optimal matching the algorithm is able to predict the probability of success so the chance is to find a job at each possible location based on trends and patterns in the historical data. The algorithm is also able to take into account real-world constraints such as available capacities at different locations or distribution keys that governments might have. What the algorithm then does is really identify the optimal place for a person or a family and then makes a recommendation what the best match would be and where someone is most likely to find a job. The algorithm that we developed is dynamic and can respond to different changes at each location and take that into account. So what we do is really human-centered artificial intelligence where the recommendation that the algorithm gives is meant to complement and not replace the decision-making of case workers and officials. We looked into data in Switzerland and the United States and ran back tests and the results were very staggering. We could show that employment rates could be improved by 40 to 70% in both countries with that matching technology. This is still theory that we are now putting into practice. The algorithm is currently tested in the real world. In partnership with the State Secretary for Migration, we're running a randomized controlled trial in Switzerland among a subset of asylum seekers that are currently arriving in Switzerland. What we're doing is that half of the people in the trial are allocated to cities and towns within Switzerland with the algorithm. The other half of the people are allocated to places within Switzerland at random the way it is done today. What we're basically doing is really use the power of data to learn from the past and improve the future and our goal really is to not only help refugees rebuild their lives but also help them increase their chances to unlock their potential to contribute to their new home countries.


A lot of us grow up believing that having faith means putting on a smile and acting like things are great when in reality our world is falling apart. But there's no pretending in the cry of the psalmist, no effort to gloss over the horrors that surround him or his disappointment in God. And yet, he still believes. In the cry of the psalmist, we see the sword of authentic and defiant faith we all long for. The kind of faith that emboldens us to be brutally honest with God and empowers us to look defiantly at a broken and dying world and continue to believe that resurrection is just over the horizon.


that was sick look at the mix dude how's it going everybody tattooed away here back with some more dragon ball fighters rank matches this time doing a suggested team of my main team but running all see assist now I'm not going to lie this is a pretty hard team for me to run just because I'm so used to playing this team with their other assists Krillin with the beam yopcha with his regular yopcha assist and honestly I just for my play style in this game see assists are really tough for me to use this color looks so good I wish we got to keep the orange shirt but it's breathing time get this off of me let's go well who see assists is actually the strongest here is Krillin gets solar flare yopcha just gets Wolfgang fist which is they definitely did not expect anybody to use there's no is y'all just see this is good there's no way it's just it's just Wolfgang fist with a little combo at the end there are some see assists that are really good I think the last time the last time we did the challenge like this somebody just asked me to do a team with all that was okay that actually was pretty good the last time we did this challenge like this somebody just said use a team with all see assist so I picked you know I picked characters that I think have good see assist I didn't have three bars I didn't have four bars the wake-up tech after a destructive ask why are we like this but yeah like Vegeta's was one of them that's why I brought that up oh yeah that's the see it it works wait Goku's is pretty good too he teleports behind before going forward that's a little cheap I didn't I wish I didn't drop it but it don't matter we just saved a bit of bars all yeah so apparently what I'm learning this team does have good CSS and it tracks that sucked I just whiffed on that one that was my bad yeah y'all just see is this a surprisingly not as bad as I thought it would be it does it does have that longer startup be must say I don't know why I said assist I just miss the beam assist so badly why am I kid you what is happening I'm out of here clearly I can't be in here with Krillin right now I don't even know what all right we're good what am I doing I am just I'm just playing like a god that time I waited too long and I just panicked you know what you I go who is out though let's it's the season of dodges we just dodge that these days oh right see assist forgot about that right see assist I'll take it I'll take that I'll take that I will definitely take this little bit of this to get sliding what's the mix oh we actually hit it perfectly that was sick look at the mix dude he got crossed up that's meaty by the way that is a meaty that was sick dang dude that was I'm this character is amazing they really had they really let me know down below in the comments if you think like even if you're not a fan of you I Goku I want more characters that are just like this insane I want I want to see everybody be this insane maybe not as insane just with fun unique mechanics I guess is what I'm asking for because you I Goku is pretty good you know what not bring it in let everybody be as good as you I Goku some people think he's number one I forgot that wasn't beam assist let's go I never usually win those those moments where you just stare at each other whoever throws the button second loses I'll take it that's that's a clean hit so right now we're in a really good position three bars to spend he is gonna build that seventh by coming in but I'm not worried he might roll up a three actually hold on all right I was testing it let me roll up a three real quick oh that was sick to run up but no actual buttons my man has patience I just wish I wasn't on the receiving end of this patience that's clean that that was clean that up on the spot I was like this should be the timing I promise you I have never used these CSS that was that was just the that was hope that was one of those times where I thought it could kill I hoped it would hit and we just got lucky let's go get that out of here you I Goku is sick I probably should be ex this one but it'll be okay he's gonna stay on the ground oh not see assist right actually did quite a bit of damage just because of the CSS that did quite a bit of damage kill in one bar nice I was wait do I mean the all CSS version of this team have I been wrong is the CSS just this sick have I been wrong is this just the sickest team in the game why is it so good all right I'm just having a blast wait a minute I'm just having a blast just level three everything you're finished is he gonna spark here he might actually spark I don't know why I did that I panicked nice got me with the second low that's probably gonna be a lot if he has a yeah yeah he's gonna get a decent bit yes just what he misses it what that's me I didn't know which Goku I was it doesn't what I've really unlocked ultra instinct I didn't even know who I was playing as well that blows them away to that's pretty cool I've never hit somebody with as a final hit with that move come here Vegeta let's let's end this you're gonna do the kick okay I get it I get a good game good game hit the showers he left y'all should just left me he was like yeah bro I don't know about that you kind of you kind of went wild after you called it one time and then you just went crazy which to be fair he's got a point okay didn't doesn't have spark so he couldn't hold me why am I playing like garbage I was a sick to him though I'll give it up this is just so much damage I do not want to be on the receiving end of this for too long no I didn't have faith that's fine Krillin still gets a lot of damage off this and we didn't drop it for what's let's go does he DP DP or level 3 both of them are options I'm afraid of let's go that should be it that should be absolutely it it's not it's not oh I definitely dropped that and started started mashing I just wanted a level one accidentally sparked and after that I blacked out but hey that worked out pretty well so that was game two right we're up to games I want to what's the assist should we start with Krillin's okay so he teleports forward y'all should just left me to die mm-hmm that was a bad teleport bad counter definitely a move you have to use sparing I'm also gonna do the the new tech option here don't ask me why I'm just kind of feeling it I wish I didn't but I did I'll take it I will definitely take that guard cancel we actually do get the read three bars I'm just gonna go with Krillin here that feels good that definitely feels like we came out of that with a winning situation when it probably should have been a loss honestly early spark I like it I agree but unfortunately you can't stop it from happening oh that that's the assist was instant at least it felt instant that was sick what does he get off this nothing why did I do that okay pop by the beam put me down not like this oh try to reset me I don't appreciate that at all reflect we got those reads you know what I'm about to let you I Goku handle you I couldn't I couldn't get there in time but you could see what out you could kind of see what I was going for there you could kind of make it out we have to go with Yamcha on this one actually if you I go who's definitely could have killed I had no faith in him a level one super without the the second bar follow-up it's a little weak so oh he did take it though but wait wait wait I think I like see assist I take it all back I was so wrong I was so wrong this is great I'm just loving life right now I didn't I didn't do the super cuz I wanted to switch out to he's gonna DP I'm gonna give a G to back out could have did more damage if I did that correctly but I did not oh there's the DP that I was so worried about oh nice to H I'm just cracking now criminal you I go to which one's gonna save me haha dude this little place actually kind of wild to just burst out in such a big radius that was that was so fast he could definitely kill me here if he wants to headbutt yeah oh he tried it dude that was sick nice nice just spinning him around with the level three this should be it if I get the wake-up thing I want if I get the wake-up read I want this should be it no that was the oppa I didn't I didn't get the super jump part I just kept running forward do we wake up counter I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it let's go wow whoa that was insane I armored through light armored through light itself huh bro where'd you get that idea oh my god he's gonna win he's he's activated Broly mode he's playing cannon he just armored through the visual stimulus and he's got this level one oh he actually let me out of the corner but oh I did he killed me had didn't matter all right we're sparking right away that's a safety precaution oh yeah he's going crazy nice after him it's just so good let's go one more let's go one more I'm too hyped up I'm too hyped up and I think I think he's adapted to my play style that Broly was making moves that Broly was making moves and I'm I want to see the I want to see the moves to play out do we get a rematch okay we do take a little time I agree I agree speaking of time I had time to make this read mmm every I got us I gotta shut my mouth hold up I think a commentary channel was the worst idea ever had oh weird what I told you this Broly was making moves I told you this Broly was making moves I didn't expected it like this I tried six you know what I knew what I was getting into I knew this Broly was gonna be a problem don't do it lose against he can't get anything off this gratefully he's gonna try something I need to get you I go out of here I think oh hey okay we got him out we got him out oh my goodness that job is fast oh that was sick okay we're scrambled we are definitely scrambling probably putting on big damage are we not level one is he going out to somebody else I think you wanted to do something there and I just accident I just got hit and kind of ruined it for him but he still did get Krillin and I'm a little worried this actually is his death yeah it is man I've never why am I clicking random buttons to be fair I've never been more right in my life saying this Broly was gonna beat me up this this was the most accurate I've ever said I've never been more accurate unfortunately it was about my my own sucking but I mean when I call it I gotta take a little pride in that it's all I have guys please don't say it's all it's literally all I have please don't take this away from me this is all I out this is all I can say is that I was right about me getting my hey I know how to tell the fortune though don't I fellas oh my goodness it's that be this is why is it eating me a lot I'm dead my brain is melted hold on we're gonna spark and try to make this come back don't believe me that's because you probably shouldn't let's go yeah turn off your cameras turn off the camera turn it off the cameras editor edit it out stopped it stop it for happening level what again he's gonna go for some mix I guess let's go got him yes it's gonna be the moment we take it back this whole game is about to get flipped let's go oh we lost that's actually dead that's death because he's in sparking that's gonna stop my healing we can't even leave we can't even leave because that was the rebound round oh my goodness let me can I write fortunes professionally I'm good I'm good sign me let me play my seat he's leaving oh true combo me and he had a stamp for the occasion at least put me in coach let me write a fortune or two is all I can ask thank you guys for watching this one it was it was a fun one and then it wow added a comedy turned to tragedy but I thought it was serious though thank you guys so much for watching let me know your favorite moment for this video down below in the comment section while you're down there you like the videos and the channel make sure to like button and subscribe and hey you can also check out some more videos that should be on your screen right now than that thanks for watching it all the way to the end I've been Datsudoi and I will see you in the next one


All right, everybody. Thanks for being here. We're going to kick off next talk with speaker Christian Paquin, and he'll be covering migrating to quantum safe crypto to protect against the quantum hacker. Thank you very much. Thank you. I'm very happy to be back this year to discuss our progress towards migrating to post quantum cryptography. The work I'm presenting today is in collaboration with a lot of people, some in my team at Microsoft Research, also with some other organizations, but for this particular work, it's mainly been done with Douglas Stibula at University of Waterloo. So I don't know if you remember or some of you might not have been born 20 years ago when South Park introduced these very weird characters, the little gnomes, and they went around and they had a plan to make money, a kind of interesting business plan. They would go around steal people's underpants and then with some unknown way they would try to make a profit. I'll get back to these guys later. But on an unrelated note, also something that happened 20 years ago is that I started to study quantum computing in my graduate studies at the University of Montreal. It was a fascinating subject and I kind of abandoned it. I came back to it a few years ago, this time not trying to use quantum computing, but trying to defend against it. Because I'm sure you all know that, was that not on before? Okay. So I'm sure you all know that quantum computers, although they would be fantastic for the field of algorithmics, you can solve a lot of problems more efficiently. For the world of cryptography, it's really bad news. Because a quantum computer would break due to Shor's algorithm. It would break RSA and DSA and ECDH and all the elliptical variants, essentially, because it can solve the underlying mathematical problems on which these schemes are based. Namely, it can factor and find a discrete log of numbers, very efficiently in polynomial time. What does that mean? It means that a quantum computer would break all the public e-crypto we use today. And what I mean is that it would break HTTPS, TLS, it would break SSH, it would break peer to peer communication messaging systems like Signal, break certificates, software update channels, and bitcoins. If somebody has a quantum computer, it could steal all the bitcoins. And there's another algorithm that's important in quantum computing. It's called the Groover's algorithm. It affects hash functions and symmetric primitives like AES, but that's not a big problem. We can just double the key sizes, the hash sizes, and we're fine. So Shor is really the main problem here. And there's a wide spectrum of estimates of when quantum computers will be built. Some people say it will never be built, some people say it's going to be done in five years, but there's a wide consensus in academia and experts that say a specialized quantum computer could be built within a decade or two to break RSA. So that means that we need to start thinking about migrating to quantum safe cryptography. So quantum safe cryptography, or post-quantum crypto, is not cryptography that runs on a quantum computer. It's a type of algorithmic schemes, cryptographic schemes that run on normal computers, but for which we know no way to break them with quantum computers. So I get asked often, why do we care now? Why don't you just tell me a year before the quantum computer is going to be built and then we're going to scramble and rush to fix everything like we did for Y2K a year before? That's a valid argument. The problem is that the data we encrypt today on the web is at risk. It is at risk of being captured now, stored for a couple of years and then decrypted. So if you're sending important data, trade secrets, or if you're a whistleblower and sending confidential information, then if this data can be decrypted in 10 years and ruin your life, then you need to start protecting it differently today. Another problem is that once we're ready to transition, it's going to take a long time to change the standards. TLS, SSH, all these things will take years to update and consequently also will take some time to update the software stack, all the code. There's this notion of crypto agility to program your software to be able to replace algorithms. We've done that many times replacing MD5 with SHA-1, SHA-1 with SHA-256. So we're used to that, but you'll be surprised how many places RSAs just are coded in some code bases. So it might be hard to transition some software stacks. And also these new algorithms, they don't necessarily function like the old ones. Some of them have huge keys, they run slower, so it might have a critical impact on some software. Bottom line, if you have data that needs to be secured in 10 years, take all these steps backwards, we kind of need to do that today. We're back to these guys now. So now they have a new idea how to make money. They don't need to collect underpants anymore, they can simply collect ciphertext, wait a few years and then they can turn out a profit when they have access to a quantum computer. Fortunately, on the crypto side, we're on top of things. So NIST, the National Institutes of Standard and Technologies, they started this effort to provide new standards to replace RSA and ECDH and all these things. They started in 2017, they got, they asked the community to provide, to propose new schemes. There were 69 accepted schemes that were submitted and in January of this year, they started round two. So Thanos happened and a bunch of these just got snapped away and then some more got merged together because they were very similar and now we're left in right here with 26 schemes and we're two weeks away from a workshop organized by NIST where the submitters will discuss these run two candidates, what updates they did in the second round. And if all goes well, then within three to five years NIST is going to publish some new standards. So it's coming up fairly, fairly soon. So our goal is to experiment with these new schemes and see what's the impact on the software we use today. So this project was started by the University of Waterloo and we joined among other mini collaborators to create a framework in which you can integrate your new crypto schemes and in turn we can take these and integrate them in higher level software. So the open quantum safe project is an open source project, it's available at this URL. Our goal is to integrate all the round two schemes where we're on the way of doing that and we also have integrations into open SSL, open SSH and also open VPN which allow you to try and deploy these things experimenting with post-quantum cryptography. What's new, what we did in the, this year is we kind of completed the roadmap of all the use cases. So we can do full post-quantum and also the hybrid case classical post-quantum and both the key exchange and the authentication, the signature part for both TLS 1.3 and SSH. We also have 1.2 support, I'll talk about it in a second, but it's not as complete. And we also implemented wrappers so you can use the library from C++, C-sharp or Python. So using this framework we did some case studies and analysis of different ways you can plug in these algorithms in our target protocols SSH and TLS. So we just released a paper describing this, it's going to be presented at the NIST workshop in more details. And we also have an extra collaborator on the paper, Eric Crockett from Amazon who provides also some insight from their S2N SSL integration. And I will present a few results from this analysis to give you an idea of what is entailed when you try to migrate to post-quantum cryptography. So first I mentioned this before but we support what we call hybrid deployments. So hybrid means that, so if you take a post-quantum algorithm you don't want to transition to it right away. You don't want to dump RSA and start using a like picnic signature because these are fairly recent. RSA has been there since 76, there's been a lot of crypt analysis done on it. So we don't know. These post-quantum algorithms may be broken in five years, not even by a quantum computer but maybe by a classical computer. Maybe there's a flaw in the algorithm that we haven't seen. So how to achieve more safety is to combine a classical algorithm with a post-quantum one.  And the resulting communication will be secure if any of the two is secure. So if there are no quantum computers then you're safe, you have your elliptic curve Diffie Elman. And if there is a quantum computer then your communication will still be secure because you would have protected with a post-quantum one. So TLS, SSH, they already have this notion of negotiating in algorithms. The client sends the support list and the server responds and negotiate which algorithm they'll pick. But we don't have a way to pick two algorithms at the same time and combine them. So that's where we have to work. And there are multiple ways to do that. We listen to paper. The simplest one is just to create a new scheme. It's like P&J sandwich, peanut butter and jelly and just combine. It's the new thing. It's P&J. So the same thing. We can take a classical algorithm, a post-quantum one, combine them and that's a new thing. The great thing is that this is backward compatible. So when you say I support these algorithms, you just name the new one, which is a combination of both. And if the other peer supports it, you can have this exchange that provides extra security.  And they're a bit more complicated. They require protocol changes and might affect a few items. And the things that you need to take to care about when you design these is, okay, how is it going to affect backward compatibility, performance? Because for example, in TLS 1.3, when the client sends its first message to request communication, it has the ability to pre-compute some data. So assuming you're going to pick ECDH, here's a pre-caputation for this exchange. But if I'm going to send three proposals and I have to compute pre-calculations for each, I'm consuming data, the data is bigger. So we don't want to introduce too much more problems or more data, increase the bandwidth requirements. And we don't want to add communication messages and affect the data flow too much. So these are all things that we take in considerations. The first thing we've implemented and the one that we use for our experiments is the first one I mentioned, the combo scheme, because it is the simplest to implement minimal changes in open SSH and also doesn't affect backward compatibility. So it's easier all around. So for the TLS use cases that we considered, we have some work in TLS 1.2, the more recent work in TLS 1.3. The base protocol does not support, it only supports, let the curve type extensions, ECDH. RSA is not even there anymore. So we have to masquerade our algorithms as curves. So we pretend to be an elliptic curve and then we can run. So we don't have to modify the stack. And one problem is the size of these things. As I mentioned, some scheme have very large public keys or very large encryption systems or signatures. And the protocol specifies a maximum size, in this case 2 to the 16 bytes for public key and 2 to the 24 for certificates, for example. And some scheme are bigger than that, so they wouldn't fit. But also open SSL has smaller limits because RSA is not that big as some main thing that's used. So they don't want to provide this empty buffer where people could dust them. So they reduce this limit. So at some places we had to tweak, remove some of these limits in open SSL to be able to run our experiments. Open SSH is kind of similar, but it has a bigger limit. It's 2 to the 32. So all the proposed round 2 schemes would fit there in theory. Open SSH also has its internal limits that we had to tweak to fit our algorithms at some places. And in this case we support both the client and server public key authentication. So it's kind of a full coverage of what we want to achieve here. Just as a summary of what we tried is a table that shows for the key encapsulation, so the key exchange. So as I mentioned at the beginning in the OQS slide, there were some algorithms that are in there, some that are not. And there's no particular reason to why schemes are excluded other than the fact that people involved in the project contribute their own schemes and the other ones were trying to fill them by taking implementations that we can find by the submitters. So at some point we hope to have all the NIST candidates in that table. The little yellow check mark here, for example, Frodo, has larger artifacts that we needed to tweak open SSL internal limits to be able to fit in there. NTS, which is a code based scheme here, like McLeese also is a similar scheme, which had a very large public keys and we're not able to fit them in the software. We had problem. And the spec in theory would support that size, but we were not able to make it work. So it's a good reason to try these experiments in practice, because even in theory they say the size should fit. There's some resulting, there's a lot of code paths in the software that didn't work. For the signatures, we have a lot more of these yellow boxes, meaning that needed to augment the internal size and open SSL and open SSH to fit these large signatures or public keys. And we only had two failures. Picnic level three and five were expected because the signature size were bigger than what's allowed by the protocol. The round two version of Picnic all fits. So they reduced, they did some optimization that allowed Picnic to be used in TLS. And on the SSH side we had some failures with the rainbow, some more higher level parameter sets. So now I'd like just to show you a quick demo of SSH. So if you know and use, if you know SSH, then that's going to look, it should look exactly as how you used to see it. So the only thing we did is add these post quantum algorithms. And nothing is different. If you've never seen a SSH connection that's just going to look a little bit weird. Sorry for the unreadability of these consoles. But what I'm starting on the right hand side is a server. It's expecting an ECDHE with the NIST curve P384 combined with a psych algorithm. There it is. And on the left hand side it's going to be a client requesting the same algorithm. And I've put the debug output there. So it's just so that it's to show something on the screen. Otherwise it would just be nothing. And we see the connection was successful. The same year the authentication was done with the Picnic hybrid, the Picnic signature and also ECDSA. So the point I'm trying to make here is that we modified these software stacks, but they work exactly as you did before. They did before. If you deployed SSH before, one step that I skipped was the creation generation of the key pair and added it to the authorize set on the server side. So it works exactly the same.  So what's next? For us is what we want to add more of the round two schemes, the one we're missing. So we can have a full list of all the algorithms. And we want to do some performance testing. We did some tests a year ago with round one candidates and it was very promising. The fast ladder schemes for example were competitive and sometimes even faster than state of the art ECDH. And some slower one, which might not be suitable for multiple connections a second like on an SSL server, could be great for kind of more one-on-one interactions in the messaging system or SSH.  And we also want to tackle more protocols. There's all sorts of things that needs to be made quantum safe. We want to start looking into that. And for you, an interesting thing to consider is are you working with projects or with software that protects data that needs to be secure for a couple of years, for 10 years. And if so you might want to be able to, you might want to start using post quantum cryptography to protect this data. Either integrating in your code or using some of our forks and deploy them SSH or VPN. All right. So that's my time. Thank you for your attention. I'll be posting the slides right after the talk. And I'm happy to take some questions. Thank you. All right. Thank you. If you have questions, please come up to the human microphone. That is me. Come on down. Can you come up and, thanks. Form an orderly line. My question was just obviously I haven't looked at the GitHub repo yet, but did you use the open SSL module API to build your provider or did you hack open SSL to extend it? Yeah. The engine API you're talking about? Yeah. Okay. So no, we didn't. So the engine API is an open SSL. There's a way to provide an alternate implementation. So if you have RSA and you implement RSA in hardware, you can create an engine to plug it in. So since these were new algorithms unknown to open SSL, we add to modify open SSL itself. And there's open SSL is in two layers, the crypto layer and then the SSL layer. The crypto layer you could maybe get away with using the engine, but in the SSL layer where you define specs or specifications for the actual algorithms, that didn't work. So we modify the code directly. We have a fork. You can see the diff between the original project and the... I just have a question. I don't know. I mean obviously you're aware that IBM has actually created the Q1 system, correct? Because I was at CES in January and that's where they showcased it. And I don't know if you know anything about it, but knowing what it is, it's a legit... How do you think that's going to help your field of migrating regular, like what you were talking about? How do you think that the creation of the IBM Q1 system will help? Maybe not you, but like whenever they streamline it more, how do you think the creation of the IBM Q1 system is going to help you and the people that come after you in this particular... So yeah, so there's a lot of vendors that have work on quantum computing and provide specialized chips. A lot of what's out today, the D-Wave system and some others, they're very specialized and they're not general computers to do all these things. So the estimates I gave at the beginning, 10, 15 years, is the output of very serious quantum computer experts that took everything in consideration, research, time, money, invested then, they give like a 50% chance to have something in 10, 15 years, including all this development. That's all... None of this is surprise work. You see the scaling of quantum computer and we have to plan that pessimistically, if you're trying to defend against it, then our mark is like 10, 15 years. I mean, I just wanted to get your opinion on how you think, even though it might not be the Q1 system itself that helps you, like the later iterations of quantum computing, do you think that will just streamline the migration from regular to PQC? I mean, it's like all this stuff, the migration doesn't use quantum computers at all, right? We're just like, if they exist, they threaten what's in today and you need to migrate to this stuff. So what's going to trigger this is NIST is going to do their, they're going to have new standards and then the protocols will update. And what we're trying to kind of kick start is you might want to migrate before all that takes place because that could be, you know, five, seven years and all the data that you encrypt today until then is at risk to be decrypted later. So if you want to migrate to something, a hybrid scheme, then that you have the tools to do that today. Expecting that one of these systems, the Wave IBM, Microsoft is working on them, Google everybody as a quantum computing team that somebody will have a functioning one in, you know, 10, 15 years. Hi. Does any of the algorithm being evaluated, both any potential application and IoT environment where bandwidth, computational power and latency are critical issues? Yes. So, so there's a lot of different flavors of algorithms. Some are very big, very small, very slow, very fast. And some of them that might not be competitive in speed with some other like fast lattice one, they will, they will give them the advantages to themselves saying that, oh, we have very short keys. We fit in very small embedded systems. So this is the selling point to some of these. And this said that they won't pick a winner. They're more likely pick a bunch of them for different use cases, including IoT, which is a very important scenario. That's all the time we have for questions, but hopefully it can be available afterwards outside. Yes. All right. One more round of applause for our speaker. Thank you very much.


yw yw'r hyn o ddegonhwyl ar y syniad yn ôl? Mae hyn o ddegonhwyl, yn unig yn leisio yn fatho dros y byddwyr, dyfynodd cael ei gael gael gawr nhw, rym ni'n gweithio i'n gweithio cwestiynau i'r gallu gwneud ein chwynghwyl. Rwy'n mynd i'r gwiswng i'r gweithio'r gael gweithio'r gweld, ddwy yma ym mhawr mewn gweithio gyda'r wahanol, mae'r mhawr syniad yn ystyrwch eisiau. But yna finnwys gyrgyffwyr ond, y strangers on the road as well. So yes, frustrated but pleased overall with our actual performance levels. I had a few difficult times on the road already this season. Hed's could easily draw. 21? I would say the first half against Don Castner was also difficult as well. I didn't know that was in the Premier League, to be fair. Well I'm talking about everything including the Carентов Cup as well. I understand. Llywydd, y byd lii'n gofyniaid yw i ddim yn ymddangos, fel yr oedd y cyd-ddoedd yma y bydd iawn, ac sef am y dddillwyddo. Ziwethaf, mae'n bod i'n gweithio beth, myael hynny felly yna yn dismygu'r hyn i ddod yma ond mae'n gweithio'r ddim yn ôl, felly mae'n gallu eisiau i ddim sy'n iechyd, ac rhai fynd i wneud fydd eu rhannu. Rwy'n gwneud i'n mertyfu yng Nghymru fel ystod yma, mae eu byddai chi ei cei wedi mynd i wneud. Mi, mae'n meddwl. Mae'n mynd i'r dynnu. Mae'n meddwl i'r defnyddio i gyd yn dweud o'r g pause, dan maen nhw'n gwneud yn ddyddangos i'r rheoli. Mae'r gael i'r brifadellion, i'r ddych yn ddiweddio'r gyffredinol. Rhywodraeth felly mae'r gael, mae'n meddwl i'r gael. Mae'n meddwl i'r ganddoch i'r flasiddor i'r ddyrrranio'r lleio ni weld y gallai gwyrddag. Mae'r ddifentio'r sydd i'r lleio i'r gael, Felly byddwch yn gallu bod yn gwneud o'r cyfrifio, byddwch yn gweithio'r cyfrifio, i'w gweithio'r cyfrifio, i'w gweithio'r cyfrifio ymlaen. Felly o'r corpus cyfrifio, mae'r cyfrifio yn gallu gydag. Deiwch yn ddechrau'r cyfrifio, a'i amddai'n cyfrifio, ond mae'r cyfrifio'n cyfrifio'n gweithio. Roeddwn i'n cyfrifio'r cyfrifio, ond mae'n cerddwch yn ddim yn chymwyno. ond cre absolutely. They were only stopping in Michael KEEN and why they were involved in the squad. Yeah they got nox in the week so I'm fortunate didn't make it at hopefully they would both be kind to try fit after the international break Obviously we would have Dom likely to be fit, 2Y still love today. We thought it was important to get him involved so we will benefit gan gyflwynaeth y dynion o'i Minister Mylliant G jointly-Gral o'r ddweud o'r dynion a gyflwynaethhau. Mae'r amser yn rhan o'r cyflwynau i chi, Jack Harrison yn rhan o'r cyflwynau i chi, oherwydd mae'n fath o'r ysgrifennu arwain, gan y gallai yn codi hynny.  I think he's a top player. We wish him well beyond our situation. But anyway, with all that being considered, when everyone's back fit, I think you'll see a group that are competitive again. Are you likely to play any behind closed source friendlies over the next four nights? Maybe. We're trying to plan one maybe on the second week, so not the first week. And just on Damari Gray, obviously he's still with the club. I appreciate the Saudi Arabian transfer window is still open. Where was he today? Is it fitness or is it? It's a bit of everything with his fitness. His fitness to play on the side is the situation around him and all the noise. But hopefully over the next couple of weeks they'll become clearer and he'll get himself fit as a start point. Do you anticipate him staying with the squad now beyond? I do it this time. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Sean, do you think that Oly McBernie header was in at the end? Which one? I don't know what you mean. The save from John? No, no, he saved it. Yeah, but do you think he was heading in? No, he saved it, so no, I didn't know. What do you think of the save? How good was it? Yeah, really good. Yeah, and it shows why he's number one for club and country. Yeah, I think like everyone, you had some question marks recently because the team were conceding sort of big moments, but I think it shows again what a top keeper he is. I thought he's all-round, performance was very good today, very unlucky with their second, quite obviously, and makes two fantastic saves at the end of the game. When it's really important to do so as well, by the way, if that goes against you, everyone's once again scratching their heads, but he made sure that didn't happen. A lot of the talking noise about the team having not scored the first three games, but does it take away from how good Jordan is at the other end? No, I think so. I think the focus is rightly so and the fact that we've created lots of chances and scored goals. We want the team to be doing that, well scoring of course, we want the team to be creating lots of chances, getting into key areas. That's just part of the challenge. You know, once you get there, go and score a goal. It's the hardest bit of all. That's why strikers cost so much money, but I think the team are creating and I think we carry on doing that, get players fit, we can add competitive element and I think we're in a good place. I'm promising signs from Beto on his league debut. Yeah, yeah, he's raw but he wants to do it. He's got a demand on himself. He'll get fitter, he'll get sharper in the sense of the Premier League because obviously European leagues are all different. No, he's come with a smile on his face and he wants to work and I thought he's done well again today. Aya Sean, it looked like there might have been a couple of refereeing decisions in the second half, Jean-June with the pullback, which James Tars-Coffee looked insistent. It was a penalty. The West Faddingham incident as well, he's handled it, it was inside, was it out? I just wondered if you had a view on either of those. Well, the view on the penalty was from my angle. I thought it might have been, but then when I saw it back it's not. So you take that and the players don't know, obviously when it's live, so that's one of them things. Possibly they talk about an orange card because it's a close one, whether he's strong or not. I thought of the referee today. I was surprised at the amount of physicality in the game. I'm a fan of it, but we all know you can't do it anymore. I thought Beto got dragged all over the place and I only got a foul against him, but that's one of them things, a different day, a different side. You know, you play the top six, you touch him and they get free kicks given, and yet today Beto got hardly anything, not just Beto, but a number of people. But like I said, I don't think it massively influenced the game. Maybe you could argue, or I certainly argue, whether the extra sign comes allowing them to put a corner in and then the whistle mysteriously blows one second, a millisecond after the corner is saved.  You mentioned as well, I think you sort of suggested, Sean, that one of the areas you were looking to strengthen was in the wide areas. Can I ask how close you were to Alfred and Anonto? We weren't close enough to any situation. You know, the truth is that certain parameters and guidelines we're now at, the club's not in the spot it was two or three years ago, I think that's become apparent. And I've always thought, manage what you can manage, manage the realities. And they're the realities on the other side of that, don't forget. Because you know the transfer, when you know it makes news and all that, when everyone's fit and you look at our group, they're going, right, there's still some very, very good players here and a number of them. So, you know, sometimes that gets overlooked. I believe in what's here, I believe in the players here. And so far this season, I think we've delivered way better than what we've got back. But you can't rely on that, we've got to keep delivering big performances. Hi Sean, you've touched upon Jordan Pickford's performance already. Just a bit more what he's like to work with and did that save kind of exemplify his desire to keep the ball out of his goal? Yeah, I mean, he's working all the time, you know, he's a top keeper, he works with William Mercer at the moment, Alan Kelly being off with an operation, a major operation. And I think it's something different for him and it's something different for us. But I mean, he knows his way around the Premier League and he knows his way around the international scene. So he's a very good keeper as we all know. And 29 with 54 cups. Ory's best year still ahead of him? Yeah, keepers. I think keepers are central offs, often the ones that mature the latest in football. I think they get better and better.  I think it's the longer you play and the longer you go, the more wise you get for what the game is about. Sean, from time to time, you read and hear people questioning whether Jordan's still England's best goalkeeper. When you see him play like that, that seems farcical. Does that seem crazy to you? No, I think every player should be questioned because that's the world we live in. You know, every top player gets questioned. Every player gets questioned. So no, I think that's part and parcel of being a top professional. You know, it's a stimulus for you, if anything. That's what my belief would be. I mean, I wasn't a top player, but I was stimulated enough from that kind of noise if you weren't going well or you were going well even. Stay on it. Stay on your professionalism. Stay on what you do. Stay on it at all times. I mean, it's harder, I think, nowadays for players. I mentioned it many times. Bombarded with media and social media and everything else. Some choose to do it, some don't. I think it's more and more difficult for players to see through all that and get on what they do. And some's their folks they bring it on, some's not. Often it's not. They just get bombarded with all sorts of opinions from everyone. And seemingly every opinion is from a specialist. Can I just ask you, you named seven subs today. Is that purely just a little lack of bodies? Yeah, and partly what I normally do is get the young kids involved. But they've been missing out because they've been transitioning over to us for training. They've been transitioning over us to be on the bench, not getting on. And they're actually missing out on their own game programme. So we had to make a call and go, right, they need a game some of these that the young lads have been with us. So it's more about, right, we can't stop their development. We've got to keep aiding their development. Part of it is getting with us, of course, even if you don't get on, the experience, the feel, even travelling with the team and all that sort of stuff. But they come at the time they were playing yesterday and we thought, no, they've got to have a game. So there's no other angle than just they needed a game. They have to be playing. So they did that and then we worked with as many as we could. Thank you.