This 10th year of Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to all of you, including Chris Smith, Mark Gibson, and Reid Fishler. Coming up on DTNS, it's CES. So of course we have huge TVs, including one that doesn't need wires, a smart kitchen mixer, and a smart sensor UPON. Plus Microsoft may add chat GPT to Bing. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, January 4th, 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. From the Las Vegas Convention Center, I'm Rich Strapolino. And on the show's producer, Roger Chang. Joining us, Deputy Editor, Reviews at Engage at Sherlin Law. Welcome back. Hi, thanks for having me. Thank you for joining us when it's CES. That is an extra above and beyond. It says a lot. Yeah. No, I halfway through was like, I'm not doing this. I'm not coming. I'm just going to ghost you all. Yeah. I would have fully respected that. But you're here now. I made it. Yeah. We really appreciate it. Let's get right into it. Folks, starting with a few things coming out of CES 2023 in the quick hits. Samsung's micro LED TVs will come in seven sizes from 50 to 140 inches with 240 hertz refresh rates. One of the 98 inch models will come in 8K. Now, Samsung's Neo Q led TVs will get upgrades as well, including up to 8K quantum mini LED panels at 4,000 nits of brightness. If you want an uncluttered look, the 4K QN 935C TV got rid of the external connection box while keeping bezels smaller than 20 millimeters. It's top firing speakers can do Dolby at most without a sound bar. And it's a smart home hub that supports matter and also threat. Finally, Samsung announced its largest yet QD OLED TV at 77 inches, which comes with an AMD FreeSync and a 70 watt 4.2.2 Dolby at most speaker setup. Samsung had a few other announcements. Its latest freestyle projector now includes cloud gaming and can be combined with a second freestyle projector to automatically keystone the images and do an ultra wide 21.9 aspect ratio. There's a telemedicine app coming from Samsung that compare with Samsung TVs and monitor your heart rate, heart rate variability, respiratory rate, oxygen saturation and stress, and the gaming focused HWG60C Dolby at most sound bar includes echo canceling and some fun little LED lights. Well, don't leave ASUS out. They announced a 27 inch OLED monitor with all the nice color gamut and pixel control you'd expect from an OLED monitor. The ASUS model is attached with a heatsink to the rear to lower the temperature by five degrees. This is meant to combat burnout known in OLEDs. It's called the ASUS ROG SWIFT OLED PG-27AQ DM, but there's no price or release date. There's also a 24 inch ASUS monitor, the ROG SWIFT PRO PG-248QP that has a 540 Hertz refresh rate. Take that Alienware. Well, it's TN, not IPS. It does have a very simple trick. The monitor feet can rotate in or out so you can squeeze it to fit on a narrower desk space if needed. It should sell for around $899, according to what ASUS told the Verge. Nanoleaf announced its Sense Plus controls learning geometric smart lights run with matter and also threads. This is going to be a thing for 2023. They can also work with Nala. That's a smart assistant that can run on Nanoleaf's border router, which attempts to learn from your habits and adjust lighting automatically depending on how you live your life. Nanoleaf also announced 4D, which can mirror colors from what you're watching on TV, skylight for overhead lighting designs flushed with the ceiling, and Essentials bulb and light strip with animations. Nanoleaf also promised its full line of modular light panels and light bars will be matter-upgradable later this year. JBL introduced the Tour Pro 2 with a smart charging case. So you can use the case's 1.45 inch LED touch display to control your music, and Nanoleaf calls, messages, and notifications. Goes for $250 this spring. In the $100 range and shipping in June, though, are JBL's mid-range tune buds, tune beams, and tune flex earbuds. Stellantis announced a deal to make electric vertical takeoff and landing, or EVTOL, vehicles for archers flying taxi service. Plan is to start mass producing archers midnight air taxi at a facility in Georgia starting in 2024. United Airlines is an investor in Archer and has promised to purchase the midnight vehicles once FAA approval is received. ASUS has now joined ASER in making laptops with glasses-free 3D screens. ASUS is using OLED panels. ASER uses IPS, but otherwise they use the same lenticular lenses bonded to the screen to create that 3D effect. ASUS uses some eye tracking to help orient objects in 3D as well. You can get the 3D display on the ASUS ProArt StudioBook laptop, but we don't have a price of release date just yet. Yeah, I heard that the eye tracking wasn't that great in several different takes on that. All right, let's take a break and talk about some tech news that's not coming out of CES real quick. Rich, what we got? Yeah, we got the Wireless Power Consortium, or WPC, if you're feeling casual. They announced a new standard called CHI2. It's part of a new standard. The WPC is working with Apple to create a magnetic power profile. Built on the basis of Apple's MagSafe tech, and this would bring MagSafe compatibility to Android phones. CHI2 will be published later this year and replace the current CHI standard, pouring out for standard CHI. All right, SCV, or RiskV, is an instruction set for making chips, similar to ARM, except that it's open source. At the RiskV summit over the holiday break, Android director of engineering Lars Bergstrom said that Google wants RiskV to be a tier one platform in Android. Bergstrom showed a slide that promised Android runtime support for Java workloads coming this quarter. Now, since Android apps ship as Java code, no extra work would be needed to run on Android apps on RiskV devices. TechCrunch reports a letter sent to Salesforce employees says the company will cut 10% of its workforce around 7,000 people. A company reported in February last year that it had 79,000 employees and that was a rise of 30% since 2020. CEO Mark Benioff took responsibility for hiring too many people in his own words as revenue accelerated throughout the pandemic. Ireland's Data Protection Commission fined Meta 400 million euros for violating European Union privacy rules with Facebook and also Instagram. The fine stemmed from complaints made in 2018 that both platforms required users to accept new terms of service consenting to targeted advertising in violation of GDPR. The decision orders Meta to bring its practices into compliance in the next three months. Meta says the decision does not prevent personalized advertising and that it will also appeal the decision. And Coinbase has agreed to pay a $50 million fine after the New York State Department of Financial Services found it was failing to keep up on alerts from its transaction monitoring system. So it was monitoring for fraudulent transactions but it had a backlog at one point of 100,000 alerts which means it wasn't reporting them in a timely manner. Coinbase says it has since built an improved compliance tool, one would hope, and will continue to work with the agency for the next year. All right, we're here for CES. LG showed off its usual big CES centerpiece concept. In the past it included things like that rollable OLED TV that rolled down into the base. This year it's a 97 inch signature OLED M3 but the news isn't the size, it's the lack of cables. It's LG's first introduction of something it calls Zero Connect. Basically it gives you a big external box that wirelessly transmits video and audio to the TV from as far away as 30 feet and it can do up to 4K and 120 Hertz. The idea isn't to replace AirPlay or Chromecast so much as to let you put the TV wherever you want without worrying about where you're going to put your Roku or your Apple TV or your Fire TV or your VCR or whatever you're connecting. LG demonstrated it sitting on an easel in the middle of a room so the TV, because all it needs is the power cord can kind of be wherever. Sarah, how does this work? Okay, so the box has a small built-in antenna on top of it that rotates to face the TV. Then you use voice commands to manage that giving you a little bit more flexibility on where you might put it. It includes three HDMI ports, USB, Ethernet, and also an OTA antenna input. It also supports Dolby Atmos and G-Sync. The transmission protocol is proprietary and LG says it uses an algorithm to determine the best transmission path and that helps reduce errors interference and latency. We don't have price or availability because that's what happens at CES but it is the signature line. I think we would expect it to be expensive. Yeah. The proprietary part here isn't surprising. It's a competitive advantage. If it makes its way down to eventually, over the course of a couple of years, to more approachable headsets, I feel that's more valuable. This is kind of the golden goose for TVs, just eliminating the cable clutter. You don't have to solve through your wall to run cables to route them out of sight, right? I mean, can I talk about something else I saw that is a similar concept? Not LG, but a startup called Displace. I'm not sure if we're going to talk about this later in the show, but I literally just walked out of a meeting with them. It's fully wireless in the sense that you don't even have mounting brackets involved. It has its own active loop vacuum technology which allows it to stick to any wall or any surface. They have it at a demo in their booth.  It doesn't even need a power cable. So basically, probably a lot cheaper than the LG thing. I, like you said, no pricing or availability, but the DisplayCV will cost at least $3,000 for a 55-inch 4K TV. That's completely wireless. Expensive, but the technology is so new. But when you compare it to the LG rollable OLED was $100,000. You know, your mileage may vary on that. I love the idea and I love the fact that you found another company doing this because it means we'll get it faster and probably cheaper the more companies that are doing this because I want an affordable way to just say, oh, let me just put my devices wherever is convenient and not have to have it all crunched up in a corner or whatever. I feel like there's a non-zero chance that we hear that Samsung acquires that company before the end of the season. You know, I actually support this. I will ship this. Would they be Samplace or Dissung? Oh, I don't know. Dissung sounds much better to me for some reason. Does it? Okay. Yeah, let's go with that. Stick it with TVs. Many TV makers use the Roku operating system on their TV. So you have the TCL or the Hisense with Roku. Those are often co-branded. So you'll see Roku's name on the box next to the TV maker. However, Roku announced it's going to be shipping TVs under its own brand this year. 11 models are going to be available in sizes ranging from 24 inches to 75 inches. There will be two main lines, the Roku Select and the Roku, and the Roku, I'm sorry, the Roku Select TV is one of those lines. It's going to ship with the Roku Voice Remote and Roku Plus is the other line, the Roku Plus TVs that ship with the Voice Remote Pro. The Pro Remote is the one that lets you do hands-free voice commands and has a rechargeable battery. So there's not much difference really between these lines. The 24-inch model will start at $119, so pretty affordable, and the 75-inch model is $999. Those are arriving this spring. Roku also separately announced a reference design for manufacturer partners like TCL and Hisense and the rest for an OLED TV that could run the Roku OS. They didn't announce any partners yet, but that might be coming from somebody at some point as well. Yeah, this is one of those things that I feel like Roku has just put our ad tech everywhere we can get it. If it has our brand on it, that's great. Our brand has some value, a lot of value with consumers, I would say, but hey, if Hisense, you want to make this reference OLED TV, we're more than happy for you to see our display ads on the side and that kind of stuff. I mean, this really is in line with where I think Roku is seeing their business. I do think it's surprising that we've waited this long to see Roku branded TVs given the, I feel like there's a very positive consumer association. Right, Cheryl? I don't know. I think it's hard to make hardware. I think that, especially for a business like Roku, that it's starting to, like you said, put its feelers out into a lot of different industries, making its own content, Roku TV shows and stuff like that. I think that's what the delay was maybe related to. But yeah, I don't know. I feel confused about Roku's strategy in general. It's like, you're trying everything. Yeah. Well, I think they just want to see what makes money and then go that direction, which is why you see them doing more ads and see them selling more TVs, because they're selling more TVs than set-top boxes. Well, and how many people say, oh, I love Roku, a Roku TV? Yeah, that makes more sense. You know, it's all built into the same unit. I feel like I'm surprised that Roku didn't do this earlier. Yeah. And yeah, we're now at the point where if you're going to sell a Roku branded TV to somebody who's like, I'm cool with cutting the cord. This is how I walked my things, you know, that then I think they're going to sell a lot of TVs. And don't forget, Roku is already doing branded soundbars. They're doing branded surround systems that all tie into their proprietary system, right? You cannot use a lot of their, especially like their surround speakers and stuff like that. You can't use those with other systems. They just kind of all wirelessly work with Roku's tech. So, you know, they've kind of put their brand name on home theater, you know, stuff more directly than just Dreamboxes before. Roger, you pointed out this brings in kind of support that they've had to build out if they're going to be selling their own TVs as opposed to high sensor TCL or something like that. So definitely a more involved effort, for sure. Yeah. Having to take on the customer support is a big thing. So that's one of the reasons they probably wanted to wait until they were ready to handle that. The other thing is my guess is they were seeing of their partners which one had the best manufacturing capability because again, just like they rebrand wise stuff to sell Roku smart home stuff, they're not building these TVs themselves. We don't know who they're getting yet to build these, but somebody's building them and they're just putting the Roku name on them as they come out of the factory to Roku's designs and specs and all of that. So my guess is they wanted to see which of their partners would give them the best deal and they finally figured it out. Well, the information sources say that Microsoft is planning to incorporate chat GPT into the Bing search engine by the end of March. Instead of searching through a list of results you could ask for what you want and you could get it. But Google has its own chat GPT like projects been reluctant to incorporate them into search for fear of reputational risk. We've talked about this on the show before. Chat algorithms are impressive, but they can be unreliable as well. In fact, open AI CEO Sam Altman has said in the past, it's a mistake to be relying on chat GPT for anything important right now. However, back on December 22nd, remember December 22nd, way back in the day, the New York Times reported that Google issued a code read over the rise of chat GPT. There's no information on how Microsoft might be incorporating chat GPT into Bing rather than just say that they're interested in doing so or what limitations or safeguards it might use. This is a big deal. Now, Microsoft has not confirmed this. This is just information sources. But they're good sources. Yeah, if Bing does put chat GPT front and center, even in a beta, it's going to get a lot of eyes on Bing that would not be on Bing otherwise. This is shocking to me because Microsoft already kind of a little bit on the conservative side. I know Bing is not their cash cow, they lose customers on Bing. It's not the end of the world for them. But they're also the same company that made the Tay chatbot. Right? This to me speaks of the confidence that they must, if this is true, that chat GPT, if they implement it, will not immediately lead to that situation because they know that has to be the narrative that's going to be when they initially were all that out. I think they have to be so careful. I think they've been burned before. I think they're looking at this very carefully if they are. I don't know if we ever see a release of this. I don't know where I heard this, but they were apparently looking at inserting AI and not necessarily just chat GPT into some of their other apps, maybe like a paint type of situation. Yeah, it was a PowerPoint kind of app. Also Office apps, right? So they are looking at using AI to their advantage to sort of maybe differentiate them or help them compete with Google. I see Google as like a big leader in AI. I think that Google has the data and the algorithms and the processing power to do all of that stuff. So maybe that's where Microsoft feels like it's falling short and if chat GPT is getting so much attention. They're like jumping on the hype train. Don't forget Microsoft tried to buy TikTok. They tried to buy TikTok. They want to be young. This is true. They're trying to change the narrative on them for sure. Yeah, theoretically they came out with this and Google is still trying to figure out how they're going to implement that again because that is their cash cow and they have to be super slow on that kind of stuff that this could be a way to be a springboard, get some more eyes on Bing that otherwise might not be there. Yeah, don't forget too that Microsoft partnered with OpenAI several years back to be the paying customer. OpenAI puts a lot of its stuff out in the public but Microsoft gets it first. So the chat GPT we see right now is not the one that Microsoft has access to. Microsoft has access to one that's a couple of versions down the road from that. Maybe it's good enough. Well, and that's the question, right? It's like, okay, well, let's say I'm using Bing and I'm using it for search, the way that I use search engines for search all the time. But there's some version of chat GPT that's like the better version. Yeah. Only applied to Bing. And how quickly do I get used to that and say, well, this is the only way I can search now? Yeah. Or it quickly offends everyone.  It could go either way or some other way. Folks, we love to get ideas from you about what to talk about on the show. A lot of the stuff in this show, it made it in because the tiebreaker was the subreddit. If you were on the subreddit submitting stories and voting on them, we appreciate it. And if you're not, go jump in. You can let us know what you like to hear on the show at DailyTechNewsShow.Reddit.com. All right. The best part of CES is not only the gadgets that we all want, but the weird and sometimes odd products that are also announced at the show. So let's talk about some of the ones that have caught our eye. Yeah, this one's not terribly weird. HP showed off two new models of its Dragonfly laptop line, usually thought of as enterprise laptops. But these are meant for people who don't want to wade through all the specs. The 14-inch Dragonfly Pro, which runs Windows, and the Dragonfly Pro Chromebook. The Dragonfly Pro runs on an AMD Ryzen 7 CPU, has a haptic trackpad, fingerprint scanner, four little hotkeys off to one side that three of them are pre-programmed for tech support, control center and camera, one that you can program. And then the Dragonfly Chromebook, which runs on a 12th gen Intel Core i5 with an RGB keyboard that you can light up with some customizable colors, both of these coming in spring. Now, these are not as stylish as the Dragonfly laptops usually are. Sherilyn wrote this up for Engadget. You said the Elite Dragonflies are Hermes to these new Dragonflies Michael Kors. I might have said Chanel to Lowe, but I totally get what you mean. Who do you think these really are for? I feel, I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. HP has an imaginary cache of people in its head where they're like, people are overwhelmed with specs, sure. But I feel like people also like the process of like going through that selection list. Sometimes I get that there's a lot of things to wade through these days. Like 8 or 16 gigs of Rambo 32, and then weighing the different price differentials between all those tiers. But in HP's mind, there is a subset of people that are, no, I just want two things to choose from. The higher storage or the lower storage. And that's what you get with the Dragonfly Pro, which is the Windows machine. You get two options. And the Dragonfly Pro Chromebook is just the one. This is the Intel Core i5. So I'm sure there are people that are overwhelmed with this. I think it's really hard for me to relate to that. As a person who's been a PC geek for this long, it's hard to understand. They have the data, so I'm assuming they know what they're talking about. The funny thing to me was that there are so many differences between the Chromebook version and the Windows version. When it said it wanted to make your decision easy, I thought, oh, well, these will be pretty much exactly the same. But they're not. No, yeah. One has the RGB keyboard. The other has the row of customizable keys. Like I get you can't put customizable keys really on Chrome OS because different mapping of the shortcuts, everything is trickier. But then give me RGB on the Windows one. I like the RGB a lot. Or the fingerprint scanner. You can do fingerprint scanner in Android. Why couldn't you do? You could. And then the Android one has material U-theming, too. They worked with Google on bringing some of that personalization into the Chromebook. And that's part of what makes it colorful, too. But yeah, I think you could find a way to do that in Microsoft and in Windows. Yeah, I feel like, yeah. Windows you can do stuff with. And then weirdly, the webcams are different, too. I could go on all day about the differences. But yeah, there's interesting choices. It's simple. They're vastly different. All right. Well, one thing that's not different is my love for this next thing.  It's called BirdBuddy. It's here to help. It includes a detachable webcam that lets you watch live. Or you can see your bird DVR. I get to say bird DVR. It uses algorithms to identify birds. If it's a sparrow, a finch, some sort of, I don't know, nat gobbler or whatever.  Well, yeah, I mean, hopefully not. And it also has a companion app that gives you badges for collecting different birds. It has some fun gamification features there. Plus, there's an optional solar roof to help keep it charged. You can also opt into sharing and viewing birds from different BirdBuddy users. You don't have to do that, but it is kind of nice. It also comes in hummingbird and regular bird feeder. So depending on your bird proclivity, you are covered. No word on pricing or availability. But as you can tell, I'm a little psyched for this. Yeah, and this isn't the only model that does this. This is just the one you saw at CES. But yeah, it does sound fun if you're into birds for sure. It's weird with this kind of, this would basically like a ring doorbell, like surveillance tech, but brings me delight for birds. So that makes me happy. Yeah, I do like the idea of a bird DVR.   I think this would be the next natural step of anybody who's kind of excited about that to just be able to check on them from the comfort of your warm house. Well, Nicky Ackerman's, our science correspondent is testing an audio version of this. So I wonder if they could just combine those together. Yeah, give us Merlin. Yeah. Japan's DriverX won a CES Innovation Award for its contact glove. The glove combines hand tracking and haptics to give a user more feel in VR. So you're, you're able to grasp things and feel the textures of them. It's compatible with HTC Vive and SteamVR, available on Kickstarter, starting at 65,000 yen shipping in July. If you're a VTuber and you want a whole body solution, Panasonic would like you to check out ShiftDoll's Haritura X, a wireless full body tracking system for SteamVR that offers controllable torso and legs in VR, works with four bands. So one around the chest, one around the hips, knees and ankles, kind of similar to Sony's Mocopi system. It'll run for $350, but no ship date yet. And ShiftDoll has also got a FlipVR hand controller. This is a very VTuber problem. It straps to your palm so that you can flip out your hand controller temporarily and take a drink without having to put the controller down and breaking the illusion. Yeah, this is definitely, it seems like a trend of kind of extending like VR, AR kind of interface. I also saw B haptics had their Taksuit X40, which is like this big vest and has gloves, actually looked a little slimmer in some ways, like a little bit more put together. But yeah, definitely a trend I've seen here at CES for sure. All right, all right y'all. We've been waiting. The star of the show. The time is now. Why things have showed off what it's calling the U-Scan, which is a analyzer for urine, human urine, that you can mount on your toilet. It can detect it. I mean, not any kind of urine, just human urine. It can detect individual urine streams based on movement and distance with a replaceable cartridge needed to conduct tests. You might say, what in the heck is going on here? The cycle sync cartridge can measure ovulation and the neutral balance cartridge measures ketones, vitamin C, pH, hydration, all things that are actually pretty important, but come out in your urine. Each cartridge holds about 100 tests, lasts about three months. Microfluidics pull in urine from the device into the cartridge and then send results by Wi-Fi to an app. So it's, you know, it's pretty plug and play. Users in Europe can buy the U-Scan for 499 euros and that starts in Q2 with one of each cartridge included. Why things is still waiting for US FDA approval, however. So, Sherlyn and Rich, you saw this, it sort of inaction. I mean, a demo. Tom is like, I want you to tell me about it, but not. I don't want to see a video of it. We're getting ready to actually test this. Are you? Yeah. I just can see the future where this goes very, very dark. I'm from Singapore and I can see the government wanting to install this in every home and being like, well, you're going to test you every day because they're very, like a, what's the word, for like a paternal kind of a government where they're like your moms. Yeah, paternal.  But worse than that, like Singapore is a very, very strict drug, like legal system against drugs. And recently said that if Singaporean citizens even like consume or partake in cannabis abroad that's still considered breaking the law. And like, how are they going to enforce that unless you're testing everyone and I can see them using this. But I mean, I don't know, this is just me speculating really hard. I did my co-worker, Daniel Cooper, who saw this for us at unveil yesterday, had a good point of like, there's a lot of privacy issues related to a device like this, especially when they want to bring it over to the US. So it's not just waiting on FDA. I think they have a lot of, it withings has a lot of things they need to figure out before this product will be even seen the state side. Yeah, just the tech angle, it was kind of impressive. Our producer, Amos was asking if it kind of fit into their broader ecosystem of stuff. And like, that is the more interesting, like if you are really into this quantified self and you really do want this information in a, you know, you want to bring that into yourself. I do think it's important that they are like kind of integrating that for all of their different smart scales and wearables that they have out there as well and kind of, you know, kind of creating just a broader ecosystem for themselves too. Yeah, I'm all for this until you tell me it's not on device. When it went into the cloud, suddenly I was, I got real like, not for me yet. Like, I love the use of microfluidics. I love the ability to just have it there. And the fact that they can actually tell who's stream it is and sort that, I think if it works is crazy impressive. And I could see how an algorithm could be trained to recognize that stuff. But yeah, I don't want this going into anybody's cloud, them or anybody else. Well, another kind of health wearable we saw there at Unveiled was the No Watch. They showed off a screenless wearable that can track health and wellness metrics without the idea is to not deluge a user with notifications like we have the typical smart watch. It uses kind of the form of a round watch, but instead of a face or a screen on it, it has interchangeable gemstone faces that don't actually show information that just kind of look cool. It uses a Philips electro-dermal activity sensor to track stress levels with vibrations to make users aware of potential stressors just kind of being like, hey, take a second to maybe, you know, take a deep breath or something like that. Battery lasts up to four days and it's available next week for $500. So price and release, a true rarity at CDS. Look at that. I don't get this one. My problem is if it wasn't a watch, if it was like a belt buckle that you could wear or something like, because I totally get the idea of I don't necessarily want to have to wear an Apple watch all the time to get the very useful analytics that you can get like health metrics that you can get out of it. And I think a lot of people are like that, like maybe more traditional watch, but still want to have access to that. And I feel like this is an attempt to do that. The fact that they're making it very much a watch face and they told me at the booth that they are actually going to come out with just like a quartz watch face that you can just slap in there to make it a watch, but with no smarts. That's, I don't know. Like it's very fashionable. I did think it looked nice. I did think it looked really nice, but people are going to say, Oh, what's that watch? Oh, it's a no one. There was a whole brand or a company called Bella Beat that did that. And Amazon did that with the original version of the Halo, which is its own screen free wearable that tracks all the same things. It just doesn't vibrate to tell you, Hey, you're stressed. You're stressed. You're stressed. You're stressed. Like chill. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like I feel like there's something about the concept that doesn't sit right with me. Yeah, I'm missing something. Yeah. I mean to get some hands on with it. Yeah, for sure. IKOMA showed off its Tata mall electric motor bike that can collapse down into a 110 pound square about the size of a very large suitcase. I can get up to 25 miles per hour on its 600 watt motor and go 18 miles on a charge. Also includes USB and AC outlets. So it can act as a charging device as well when it's not in bike mode costs $4,000. Oh man. I know. I wanted it until that. Rich, you said that their demonstration made this look more like an e-commerce or a thing for companies to have rather than a personal scooter. Yeah. All of their branding on it. I didn't see a lot of the coverage on it because everyone's saying like, eh, the range isn't great. It's not very comfortable. Digital signage is what this is really all about. They had demos where they just had a big LCD on the side of it. So you can put either a third-party ad or your own business on there. And then when you fold it up, the display is still fully available. So, you know, you'd be able to get that. So that I feel like is the missing piece. And I feel like in a lot of urban markets where there's a lot of that advertising already, that could definitely be potentially a compelling e-bike or e-scooter or whatever. Yeah. Like the delivery. I don't know. I could see a food cart person do this as their delivery aspect. And people could charge their phones on it while they're waiting for the food unless there's a delivery ad. I don't know. Once you said that, my mind started going elsewhere. I'm like, okay, maybe this one does make more sense than I thought. Well, you know, keeping with the theme of fun things at CES Japan's Aramette Join showed off a product that adds smells to videos.  Scents are created from a replaceable cartridge, including things like grapefruit, campfire, bread, and burning rubber. You know, for car videos, come on. Sure. I guess. They carry about a foot away from the wearer. So if you're saying, is this going to impact me? Well, if you're a foot away from the wearer, maybe the aroma player can sync with phones, PCs, or VR headsets using Bluetooth. Battery life is around two days with normal use. We don't have price or availability, but we do have potential smells. They have been trying to make us smell the web since the dot-com boom. I mean, it's just, I mean... Nobody wants to smell the web. Smell isn't going to happen.  No, I want to make everyone smell durians. Oh God. Well... And once we do, we say, no more smell. It's an advertisement for that food cart that I was mentioning. All right, well, next up here is GE's Profile Kitchen Mixer. It won a CES Innovation Award. The profile's mixing bowl acts as a scale, auto-sense the text changes in texture and adjusts speed according to what recipe you're following. You can control it through your voice through Amazon or Google. The GE Profile Smart Mixer is available for $999 now making the KitchenAid Mixer not seem so expensive. It is a little pricey, but mixers are pretty pricey, and I like these features. I didn't think I would when I started reading about this, but I'm like, oh, a scale that can automatically tear so that as you're adding things, you don't have to do math in your head. I'm like, oh, no, we knew you had two ounces in there and you added three ounces of that. I don't know, this is sort of compelling, especially if the price would come down a little bit. And now you add in a tovala baking service where all of a sudden you're like, I want to make chocolate chip cookies tonight. Boom, all the ingredients are here.  You scan the QR code, boom, boom, boom. Thermomix makes something like this. That's also a scale into it, but they're more of a blender as opposed to a stand mixer. They're more of a blender and smarter. Yeah, and not just, oh, we put Wi-Fi in it, but like actually useful smarts, yeah. Mui Labs showed off their second generation Mui board. It's a screenless wood smart home interface that uses LEDs to show information. When not in use, it looks just like a piece of wood. The second gen adds matter support as do all things at CES these days. Pre-orders open in June on Kickstarter for $599 shipping in November. Did you see this, Rich? Yeah, it totally caught my eye. It looks like, I don't know, like the IKEA design of a smart home hub, and I was expecting when I touched it like, oh, it's going to be lamb and it's like a plastic veneer. It feels, it is a piece of wood, so like it is a very different tactile experience and it has pixel art and I'm a sucker for that, and they knew it. They knew it. Yeah, put LEDs in the board.  I am not. That's not a good pricing either. Definitely. If this thing was entirely white and had like a humidifier attached to it, that's exactly what happened. It came with a cool notebook, yeah. Well, everybody knows, at least if you go to CES regularly, that L'Oreal is a regular. Back with two examples of beauty tech. HAPTA is a motorized lipstick applicator for people with limited hands and arm mobility using tech from Alphabet's Verily to guide the controls. Brow magic, this one caught my eye. Get it, my eye? Brow magic uses 2,400 small nozzles and can print at 1,200 drops per inch to make the perfect eyebrow. Brow magic will be available later this year. How much though? I don't know. How much will you pay for brow magic? Well, not that much, to be honest. Sharon, I feel like you have some thoughts on me. Yeah, sure. I bought a L'Oreal eyebrow pencil for like three bucks a month or something. Three bucks over two months. What is this going to cost? Also, I really think the HAPTA thing is a cool idea. I wish it did more than just apply lipstick. We saw the devices at the booth at Avril yesterday. They look more finished than I thought they would be. They didn't look like janky prototypes. But as with a lot of L'Oreal's tech that they unveil at CES, they tend to be like for salons especially for your at home use. I'm not sure about the eyebrow stampy, printy thing yet, but I don't like the idea at all. It just sounds like a nightmare in the making. The cost of printer ink added to eyebrows is perhaps interesting and also perilous for your family. I feel the opposite. I'm like, do it. Let's do it. Let's print some brows. I can't wait to see. I have to try this out and see what type of brows they would print out for me because I'm very particular about my makeup. I feel like I know my face, I know what goes where, and does this printer know? That's fair. How much control can I have over this printer? Brow magic uses some augmented reality scanning theoretically. It's a machine judging kind of way. Customized to your face and then yeah, how much control do you have over it after that would be the question, right? Right. Yeah. We also sometimes don't know the best for our brows. That's just how things work. Your mileage may vary, yeah. Indeed. Well, this has been a fun, fun CES roundup with some other news going on on the show. Thank you to Sherilyn Lowe for being with us. We know you're very busy putting in the steps. Let folks know where they can keep up with everything else that you're doing. Yeah. All my work is on angadge.com and if you just want to chill, hang out, chat. I'm on Twitter still at Sherilyn Lowe. Very cool. We also want to thank our brand new boss. That boss's name is Joe. Joe just started backing us on Patreon. Thank you, Joe. Welcome. Yeah. Glad to have you. Joe made CES coverage possible today. Thank you, Joe. He really did. Speaking of patrons, which Joe is one of now, let's take a round for our extended show, Good Day Internet. We roll right into it after DTNS wraps up. But just a reminder, you can catch the show live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern 2100 UTC. Find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. And we'll be back doing it all again tomorrow with a lot more CES coverage. Talk to you then.


So, cutting horse training online has come to the extreme Mustang makeover tonight. The final, to check out some great horsemanship and reserve champion was Taryn Munch who has actually taken this out before. Tonight, you were a crowd favorite by far really. Congratulations, and how did it feel tonight about your performance? What did you think? I was really happy. I was really proud. I really like that horse. He's one of the most trainable horses I've ever ridden and he gave me everything he had out there and I couldn't be happier. Man, I'm as proud as I could be. So, explain the Mustang makeover. You get to choose a horse, you buy it at an auction, just explain the process, how it works, and how long you get to train on it. Okay, so this year, every year is a little bit different. This year, they came up with a pool of about 200 horses and they had a video preview of them. They had you about five seconds in a bucking shoot so you could tell how tall they were. And then they gave you about a 15-second clip of them trotting around in a little pin so you could see them move. And I don't remember dates, but sometime in March they had the auction and I ended up buying this one and one other one. They let you buy two and on June 13th you had to pick which one you were going to show and you could reassign the other one to another home. So I reassigned the other one to Clark Cupkey and I kept this one. So we have had 120 days to work with them and then we come here in Fort Worth to compete for, I think they said it was $130,000 worth of prize money. So tell us how is training a Mustang different to say a cutting horse? A horse is a horse. I think it's all the same. You train with positive reinforcement and lots of lots of work. I mean it's I don't know which one's harder. They're both hard and lots of work both ways. So the fact that they're wild you don't have to spend longer establishing trust or anything like that? That's probably the longest process is getting them where you can easily catch them and saddle them and ride them. For me once I get them where I can easily catch them and saddle them and ride them I ride them 20 or 30 minutes a day. The only thing I do different for this show is I might ride them twice a day all through the summer. Shorter rides but more frequently because whenever you get here you have to show them two or three times a day and that's quite a bit of pressure on a horse that's only been out of the wild for a hundred days. So I just try to teach them to accept all kinds of pressure.  He could do any of the rope horse. An all-rounder. Just yes ma'am and those obviously those horses are more special to me than a cutting horse because you can do anything and have fun getting a job done on them. And what's this horse taught you in particular? Just to have fun and enjoy spending time with your horses. I'm sorry. It's emotional having to cycle by? It is. And I don't know why. I've never been emotional about any horse I've ever sold until this one. I don't know. This one I looked forward to waking up every morning to go out and ride with him. He's the only horse ever that when I walk out the door of my house he nickers at me every morning. And I don't know why. He's just something that we've had a lot of fun together. Well he just sold the 20,000? Yes ma'am. Were you tempted to try and pay him? No ma'am. We train horses for a living and buying and selling is part of making our money. Brenda Landing and Mark Landing bought him and that's a great home. And that's the most important thing to me is that he has a good home for the rest of his life. That's what this is really about to me is getting the wild horses adopted in a forever home. So I have to ask you, how do you come up with your ideas for your performance? I've always just tried to rope and tie something down. In my mind in 120 days that's the coolest thing you can do or that I can do with a horse. To have one understand to do a job when you're 30 foot away from him is what I think is one of the best horses there are. Well congratulations. It's an awesome effort. Everybody loved watching it and we wish you the best with everything. Well thank you very much.


Welcome to the U.S. Naval War College, the Navy's home of thought. NWC Talks features our world-class experts examining national security matters. We hope you enjoy the conversation. For decades, commentators from both inside and outside the U.S. military community have been issuing stark warnings that there is a widening gap between the military and society, that society is relying on a small, isolated warrior caste, that there is a chicken hawk nation where the wealthy and powerful avoid service and are too ready to send other people's sons and daughters to fight in useless wars. If only we had a draft, if only people had to worry about being dragged into foreign adventures, they would pay more attention to foreign policy and demand better judgment from politicians. Because of a civil military gap, we are told, we are warned about all kinds of undesirable consequences, irresponsible foreign policy, inadequate recruiting and retention, possibly even the slow decay of a civil society that feels no obligation to serve or to give back to the nation. I'm Dr. Lindsay Kahn, and this is NWC Talks, Civil Military Relations. Today we're going to talk specifically about this notion of a civil military gap, what it could mean, whether it exists, and what its consequences might be. First, some background. Civil military relations is a huge interdisciplinary field that asks both normative and empirical questions about the relationships among the government, the military, and the broader society. Many of us are concerned about the types of normative problems indicated by all those headlines, the health of democratic society, the fairness of how the defense burden is distributed. We want to know not only what these relationships actually look like, but whether they are healthy, and if they're not healthy, how to make them healthier. Now, most states today have divided the labor up. They've designated a group of people who do the fighting. So most states have some sort of standing army, some also, of course, have a navy. That means that they will have to manage civil military relationships. And these relationships consist of three different sets, three different pairs of actors that have to deal with one another. The first set is the government and the military. This involves things like military advice to policymakers, resourcing strategy, guidance from the government to the military. It also involves civil control or obedience. Now this is often called civilian control, sometimes democratic control. But I prefer the term civil control because it emphasizes that the entity supposed to be in control of the military is whatever the political community has designated. It is not the fact that the president is a civilian that gives him authority over the military. It is the fact that he is in his position by virtue of a political process that has been agreed upon by the community. Now between the people and the military, this relationship consists of mutual perceptions, what they think about each other, of attitudes, how they view policy choices, and also about representativeness. The more open a society is, the more desirable it is that the military be generally representative of society as a whole, at least in certain ways. It's understandable that the military will be younger and healthier than the average. But it's desirable to have a military as representative as possible, so no social group is bearing an undue burden or benefiting in ways from which others are systematically excluded. Between the people and the government, the relationship consists of things like the public's interest in and oversight of government activities with respect to foreign and defense policy. In a democracy, it is the citizens who must judge whether the government is making good policy, whether they are making good choices, whether they are using tax dollars appropriately. The government, in its turn, owes the public transparency, otherwise they cannot make these judgments. So there are lots of places where there might be gaps, where the two parties to a relationship might be too far apart for their relationship to be healthy. In general, most people worry the most about gaps in the military-people relationship. Those gaps are thought to lead to problems in the other relationships, such as the policy-making relationship between politicians and top military advisers, or problems in recruiting, and democratic participation, oversight, governance, where the people are not doing their jobs as citizens. There are a lot of theories out there about how specific gaps might cause specific problems. Here, I have divided things up into the gaps believed to cause problems. Those are on your left. On the right are some of the specific problems people think are caused by these gaps. So this seems like a lot to worry about, but do any of these gaps actually exist? If they do, are they getting worse? And most importantly, are any of them actually likely to cause these undesirable outcomes? First, I'll go through what we know about some of these gaps. The one thing people have often worried about is this thing called an attitude gap. Perhaps military people, especially those who have made a career out of it, just think differently about foreign policy and possibly domestic policy than everyone else does. Maybe military people are more prone to use military force because of their familiarity and comfort with it as a tool. On the other hand, maybe military people are more reluctant ever to use military force because they are so much more sensitive to the costs and difficulties and limitations of force as a tool. And on domestic policy, what if military people are, as Samuel Huntington claimed, natural Berkean conservatives whose social views stay locked in the 1950s while the rest of society diverges from them and grows ever more liberal? It is true that conservatives and Republicans are overrepresented in the military, particularly in the officer corps, but the views of military people, qua military people, are very similar to the views of everyone else. On foreign policy, for example, there is little evidence that military people in general think differently than Americans as a whole. In other words, there is a lot of disagreement among them. There is some evidence that those with military experience and especially with combat experience are less cavalier about the initiation of the use of force than those without. But there are hawks and doves in both groups. James Goldby has found evidence that partisanship explains more of the apparent civil military attitude gap than the fact of military service. In other words, Republicans in the military look exactly like Republicans not in the military. Democrats in the military look exactly like Democrats not in the military. And the only reason the military might look different in terms of attitudes is because there are more Republicans in it proportionally than in the general public. And this appears to be due mainly to what we call a selection mechanism, which is that people who are conservative and Republican are simply a little bit more likely than those who are not to join the military. But they're only somewhat more likely. And there are plenty of non-conservative non-Republicans who also join the military. There is very little evidence that serving in the military causes people to become more conservative, what would be called a socialization mechanism. In terms of domestic policy attitudes, we see approximately the same thing. Military personnel and those with military experience are more conservative than the general public, but their overall attitudes still shift in the same direction as those of the general public. For example, while military personnel do tend to be less supportive of gay marriage than the general public, they are still significantly more likely to support it now than they were 20 years ago. In other words, as society's views have shifted on that issue, so have the views of those in the military. It is not the case that the military is stuck here while society moves away from it. So in terms of actual differences in attitudes, there's not much evidence of a gap, certainly not much evidence of a growing gap. But perceptions matter too. So what do these groups think about one another? There are a lot of dimensions we could look at. I will look at just one, how partisanship affects perceptions. Dr. David Burbach has done an excellent NWC talk on the fact that the U.S. public has expressed increasing trust in the military since the 1980s, while trust in other public institutions and many private institutions and professions has decreased since the 1970s. And he makes a point about the role that partisanship plays. The U.S. public's confidence in the military has a partisan character. Republican confidence is consistently higher than Democratic confidence and has a steeper upward curve, though both trend upwards over the last several decades. Republican confidence in the military drops significantly when the president is a Democrat, while Democrats' confidence appears to be less affected by the party of the president. This important role of partisanship in confidence is consistent with many of the other issues where we see partisanship come into the civil-military relationship. Michael Robinson, for example, has found evidence that Republican members of the public tend to view the military as co-partisans, as members of their in-group, so to speak, while Democrats do not. Again, while the proportion of Republicans in the military, especially amongst officers, is significantly higher than in the population at large, most military personnel still believe in a norm of nonpartisan public service. However, it is possible that should this popular perception become more widespread and entrenched, serious civil-military problems could arise, whether the perception is accurate or not. Furthermore, there is evidence that the norm of military members remaining nonpartisan is eroding, both within the military and from the perspective of the public. The vast majority of concerns about gaps, though, have not to do with attitudes and perceptions which we just talked about, but with representativeness or familiarity. With representativeness, the relevant question is whether certain salient social or demographic groups are significantly over or underrepresented in the military, and if so, whether the trends are good or bad. Overall, the force is pretty representative, and most of the trends are either flat or positive. Most importantly, this is by far the most representative military the U.S. has ever had, including when we had a draft. But what about the charge that while the military may be representative in terms of attributes, it is isolated from society and growing more so? Let's talk about the idea that military service is becoming a family business and that an ever smaller group of Americans is bearing the burden. It is absolutely true that having a parent or other close relative in the military is a strong predictor for someone joining the military, just as it is true that having a lawyer or a farmer or a mechanic as a parent is a strong indicator for someone to enter that career. Family propensity is higher for the military than for many, but by no means all other professions. Also, this phenomenon has been steady over time. It has been true for hundreds of years that military service tends to run in families. There is no evidence at all that this is an intensifying phenomenon or that the U.S. military is in danger of becoming a caste. You may have heard concerns that fewer and fewer Americans know someone who has been in the military. And the implication is that if you don't know someone who was in the military, you are less likely to understand military people's concerns or less likely to care about foreign and defense policy. Again, to a certain extent, true. Family connection and personal experience shape what is salient and important to all of us. Having a smaller military than we did during World War II and the Cold War means that the surface area available for interface is smaller. So unless the military is made much larger or the rate of personnel turnover is significantly increased, the number of Americans with direct social contact to people with military experience will continue to decline and then level out. But let me give you two reasons to worry less about this. First, it only feels like a dangerous decline because most of us are using World War II as a frame of reference when the military was huge and salient and everyone felt directly affected by the war. But World War II was the biggest war the world has ever seen. Not only are its civil military effects not normal, it is dangerous to think of them as the ideal. Second, there is strong evidence that Americans will not care about foreign policy no matter how many relatives they have in the military. I'm only sort of joking. Survey data indicates that approximately equal proportions of those with and those without close family members in the military say that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq matter to them or affected them in some way. And public figures from George Washington to Elihu Root have complained that Americans don't pay attention to foreign policy. And both of these men were speaking at times of major international wars, which is the time when you would most expect people to be paying attention. Had we not had World War II, the US military might still be less than one tenth of one percent of the population and confined to isolated barracks in remote areas. We did have World War II, though, and that did change people's experience of the military as an institution. In fact, the US military is now one of the most salient institutions in American society. Its budget share is large and the one thing Congress has to address every year is the National Defense Authorization Act. Its presence in popular culture is large, though often inaccurate or misleading. And its presence in the news is large compared to many other things that Americans care about or perhaps ought to care about. So the overall message is most of the gaps people worry about either don't exist, like the Attitude Gap, or are getting better, like the Representativeness Gap, or are sort of returning to a historical norm from a period of historical abnormality, like the Familiarity Gap. Some gaps and trends are cause for concern. We should work to maintain or revive a norm of nonpartisan behavior for military personnel, though how feasible that is in a polarized environment is not clear. We should work to maintain and improve representation, including recruiting from regions and demographics that don't traditionally send high numbers of people to the military. This will also require leadership efforts within the military to make the organization more welcoming to people who are different from the traditional image of the uniformed service member. And we should certainly look for ways to increase Americans' understanding of an interest in their government. We should look for ways to increase Americans' feeling of buy-in to their system. Many people think that a draft would accomplish this, but there are many reasons to doubt that it would, and certainly reasons to doubt that it would be the best, most cost-effective solution. I don't have time to talk about a draft today, but I will simply point out that drafts are always political creations. They are not magic bullets that make politicians or the public behave better. The problem of the American politicians and public not being good at governance is a problem to be addressed through education, to be addressed through political reform, to be addressed through the creation of a polity that people feel includes them and serves them. In the end, many of the issues Americans identify as problems of civil-military relations turn out to be problems of larger social and political institutions. Healthy civil-military relations depend on a healthy political community, not the other way around. So thank you for watching. I'm Lindsay Kahn, and this has been NWC Talks, Civil-Military Relations.


Liebe Teilnehmer am RC3, ich darf euch jetzt den Festi vorstellen.   Freue ich euch auf Boxes PY. Hallo, so, let's talk about, hello, do I have sound? Okay, let's assume I have sound. Let's talk about laser cutters and what to do with them, because let's start with the most important thing, laser cutters are amazing. From all the, from all the rapid prototyping stuff, they are in my mind the most worthwhile machines for hackerspaces or makerspaces. For me, the main selling point is their speed. They can do stuff quick. So if you have something that's like box size thing, you can do that within minutes, like 10 minutes or something, where 3D printing always takes hours or days depending on how big the thing is. The second thing is, laser cutters are very, very precise. We will see how precise they are, but they can easily produce precision within a couple of hundreds of millimeters, which is something 3D printers can do and well, billing machines can do, but they have a lot of other difficulties to achieve that. And they're inherently 2D, which means they're easier to understand and easier to use. Basically, all you need is a 2D drawing and a laser cutter can use that. While many true 3D machines need complicated toolpaths and you need a toolchain that actually is able to deal with that. And so in hourly hackerspaces, while the introduction to laser cutter is about one hour long, but after that you can just use the machine easily. So, how do they work? Basically, they work great. If you have a bit of a closer look, it's all smoke and mirrors. It's so much smoke and mirrors, that you need some fume extraction. And that's a bit of a problem, but it's doable. If you look even closer, you see a lot of scary things that are in this huge box. And there's a nice mix of fragile glassware, water and high wall ditches. So, when you take a look at clothes, it's even more scary than just lasers. And of course, those relatively cheap and affordable laser cutters are using CO2, lasers which are invisible. So, even the danger that is from the laser is invisible. And the laser is strong enough to make stuff disappear. So, laser cutters look very, very scary. But in reality, they're not as bad as they look or sound like. Because the whole laser stuff is all enclosed in this box, which is made of steel. And if you get a good laser cutter, which is class one, it's basically the same glass as a CD-ROM drive, which basically says there's a laser, but it's inside and can't get out. This thing we need to be careful is if you do stuff you shouldn't or do repairs. So, then be careful. Otherwise, it's actually a pretty nice machine, all the difficult and dangerous parts are on the inside.  So, I'm much more worried about other tools in our Hacker space, like circular saws or hammers or just normal electricity out of the outlet that people plug into some weird apparatuses.  The laser basically evaporates the material, it cuts and basically creates a flame, a small fire instantly all the time.  So, the only thing you really, really, really need to take care of is watching your laser cutter all the time. You really can't leave it unattended. But if you do that, you should be all fine, it's all good. So, what can laser cutter do? It can cut stuff, we will talk about what exactly in a minute.  So, you can scribble on that or put markings on that. It's also very useful. On the Internet, I've seen people are using this to bend acrylic with heat, but I've not done this myself. The trick here is that the laser is focused in one point. And if you move your material out of this point, the focal gets bigger again and so you can spread the heat on a bigger surface. And it can be used to heat stuff, but it's kind of hacky. So, only hackers might want to use that. Then there's a whole world of stuff about engraving. It basically scans lines over the surface and you can then score or fill whole areas for adding text or something like this. You can even do dittering, so there's some software chain involved to prepare the images so this looks good. But it can be done. There are also a couple of cool specialty stuff that can be used. One of them is dual-layer acrylic, which is basically acrylic with a very thin layer and a second color on top, which can be etched off. So, you have a two-color sign, for example, as a result. And we also have some special laser rubber that allows to do stamps, which is always a nice thing to have. When it comes to materials, the main thing we are using is plywood, typically birch or poplar, which is relatively light, which helps cutting, because the laser cutter needs to evaporate and burn the material so the more dense and more thick the material is the slower the cutting goes. For typical two or three or four millimeter plywood, you can cut with like 30 millimeters per second, so it's quite quick. You have to be careful, there's one kind of dark glue that's used for birch plywood, sometimes that can't be cut. It's just a bit of a material that won't evaporate and won't burn. So, no matter how powerful your laser is, it won't go through there. I had to learn that the hard way. Another thing that's not that common, but really nice is leather. Leather is very easy to cut. And you can cut in holes to sew them into complex shapes. Make sure it's actual leather, or if it's some sort of artificial material, you have to check that same caveats as the four other plastics apply here. The acrylic is the plastic to cut with a laser cutter, because it cuts really, really nicely. It can also be cut deeper than all other materials, because when cutting, the surfaces are reflective, so they refocus the beam into the cutting area. So you can cut even deeper than your beam would normally be able to reach. There are a couple of other plastics that can be cut. You need to be really careful so there are no hyalogens, especially chlorine in there. So PVC is something you really shouldn't cut, because it creates an acid that will damage the lungs, and even worse, it damages the machine, so you really don't want that. So there's a flame test you can do to transfer chlorine. And if the flame gets green, you really shouldn't use the materials. There are a couple of materials that can be cut, but most of them don't cut as nicely as acrylic. So they have the tendency to melt, and then the molten material is blown over the edge, and you have small droplets in the bottom and stuff like this. The thinner the material is, the less this matters. If you have thick material, there's a lot of molten stuff coming out of the cut, and so your mileage might vary. It's possible to engrave glass. The glass went hit with the laser cutter, cracks on the surface, so it gets mated. So you can even make a small impression with enough power. So you can put, for example, letters or some image on there. The same is true for metals, but it's very inconsistent. It depends a lot on the chemistry of the metal itself. We had a couple of really good results with stainless steels, but some other steels just won't take a color at all. There's also some spray-on color that you can burn onto metal, but that's pretty expensive. So you have to try what works or what doesn't. One can try to put oil on the surface and burn this into the metal to get some blackening effect similar to normal blackening of metal, but it depends a lot on the type of metal you're actually dealing with, so it's worth trying. So this is a talk on its own, but I'm just adding it here quickly. So if you don't have a laser cutter and think they're too expensive, machines like ours, if they're upgraded to European standards, so they're really true Class 1 lasers and are safe. They're pretty expensive. They can be around about 10,000 euros. So if you surprisingly don't have that money and don't want to put some CCC funding into that, what we did is we took a credit from our members. We charged per minute. We have lowered the price since now, but at the beginning we charged 50 cents per minute. The machine actually ran. Whenever someone needs someone else to laser for them because they can't operate the machine or they're an external customer, we paid the operator another minute. So if they work for one minute, they have one for their own. And of course, that needs to be paid by the person that wants to have their stuff cut. And we charged another 50 cents just for good measures for external people who don't contribute to the rent of the room and the electricity bill and anything else. So that's the way to refinance your laser cutter. The question is, how do you motivate your people to actually put that much money on the line? And what we came up with is just paying interest in laser minutes. This is a great benefit that it doesn't cost the hackerspace any money and laser minutes are easy to produce and still with 50 cents per minute it's easy to come up with an interest rate that's very, very competitive compared to banks. And we allowed paying back the loans within 10 years on the terms of the hackerspace which worked very, very great. After three years we were able to pay everything back and so we were able to lower our rates after that. So, if you need help with that, contact me after that. So, back to actual laser cutting. The difficult thing with laser cutting is that there are 2D and the question is, why the Congress is in 2D, most of us live in 3D and so you want something that's not flat. And there are basically two ways of doing that. Let's say two and a half. The easiest one is just cutting multiple layers and stacking them on top of each other. That's something, I'm not doing a lot, but it's something that's very interesting if you want to do something with circuit boards, for example, you often can just have one plate on top, one plate on the bottom and just have spacers in between that holds your circuit board. And it's good enough for many applications. The trick here to use is to make holes for alignment pins. You can just use some nails in there or you can laser cut a piece of wood that you slot in or you can have some kind of sea clamps that sandwich the stack of layers. And the trick is that these help while gluing the stuff together. Otherwise, it's very difficult to align stuff because if you don't have enough glue, it's not holding very well. If you have too much, things start sliding around. So alignment pins is a trick and it's easy to add. So many things here, you can just use Inkscape, click to take together a basic shape, copy them a couple of times and then cut away what space you need inside. The other obvious solution is to just use finger joints and some box-like structures. That's what we are talking about in this talk mostly. So what's the problem? The problem is, I had a laser cutter, we were buying one in my old Hacker space but I was looking for a box generator. And it was 2013, so a lot of software projects that look better now, like FreeCut, weren't still that great. I was looking for an open-source solution, something that would be fun to code, something that would be able to deal with different material thicknesses, that would do curve corrections or would account for the amount of material that's removed by the laser. So I was looking for an open-source solution by the laser. I urgently wanted to do flex cuts just to see how they looked like. They were basically making wood bendy by cutting it a lot. Of course, I wanted finger joints. And it turned out, there wasn't a great solution there. So I started Box.py. I implanted in Python. It basically is a huge turtle graphics project. So it's basically just you start in one corner, go along the edge, turn 90 degrees, do the next edge, and repeat until you're back where you were before. And repeat that for all parts. So it's conceptually really, really simple. And that's on something, strength of the project on the other hand, it limits what can be done recently. So there's no huge graphics engine where you can cut one shape out of another or something like this. But it's basically just go along, turn, turn, turn, turn, be back where you were. So for everything that's made of rectangles or simple shapes, that's really, really fine. If you do something complicated, it's probably not the right tool. And there are a couple of generators that come against that edge already. Back then, I was basing it on Cairo, LibCairo, that's the graphic libraries from GNOME, but it's has been replaced. There's a command line interface, that's how it started. There's no web interface, which we'll look at in a minute. And it's now even available as Inkscape plugin, so you can generate a box right away in Inkscape. There are now about over 100 different generators. We'll look at a few of them now. That's the web interface. It's not great. I'm not a graphics designer. I'm also not a web designer. I'm happy that it does something. There are a lot of generators in each of these points that can be opened. And this is the interface for generating a box, basically. They all have the same layout. On the very top, with the error going to the right, there are settings for different edge types. In this type, only finger joints are used here. So there's only one, you can open that. We'll look at the details later on. Then there's the section with the per generator parameters. So there's the different sizes. Many of the boxes have an outside checkbox, where you can decide whether the measurements are for the inside of the box. So if you want to fit something in there or if they're on the outside of the box, if you want to fit the box inside something. A lot of boxes do have the ability to change the edge type on top or bottom. We'll look at those edges types in the examples. And they may have a couple of other parameters. In this case, we can decide how many walls are there on the side, how many angles. And we can decide if we want a lid basically or not. And on the bottom, there's the default settings, which we look at a bit bigger. So some of them are really important and you need to take care of them every time. And some are not that important. The really important is the thickness. This is about the thickness of your material. I strongly advise to always measure your material before putting it in a laser cutter. Because many materials don't always come in the size that they are supposed to be. So plywood, swells and shrinks. Although that's not that critical because it can be forced into its nominal dimensions. But especially acrylic is very brittle and if it doesn't fit, it won't fit. And you really don't want to use a file to enlarge all the holes that you just cut. So do measure the thickness and check twice every time. So you can select different formats. Default is SVG, which depending on the program you're using to use your laser cutter may be a good choice or not. It also can do DXF, which is the second proper format. The second really, really important value is on the bottom, which is burn or RK curve. This is how much the laser is outset to account for the thickness of the cut. This needs to be pretty precise for things to fit. And I typically change this in 200 of a millimeter. So it can be 0.1 or 0.08. Or if you want to lose of it, 0.06. The problem is this all depends on your machine and on the material used. And might even change with if you're using different speeds and powers a little bit. So it's something that needs to be tried out or you need to have experience with that. There's a tool that we're just looking at for checking this. So there are a few more stuff here that's not that important. There's the tubs, which allows you to leave small gaps in the cuts so pieces don't fall out. That might be useful if you want to keep all your pieces within your sheet of material. That's supported by most parts. There might be some hand-programmed stuff that's not supporting them, but most places to support them. So pieces stay in. This is also very critical if you want the pieces to pop out easily. Otherwise, you need to cut them. So 0.1, 0.2 is a good value there. Even if you have 1.1 mm too much, it's really hard to get pieces out, especially smaller ones. But you can cut it with a knife if you need to. Debug allows you to put boxes around specific features to check alignment. It's only something you need if you're actually programming new generators. And there's the reference, which renders 100 mm Reference to make sure your drawing has the right scale. Because a lot of tools mess up the scale of your drawing. Because both SVN, SVG and DXF don't really come with a built-in measurement system, but they have just numbers and different tools have different ideas of what they exactly mean. So if you're new, you may want to keep this. If you have your toolchain established and you're confident that everything works fine, you can also set it to 0 and it will disappear. And you won't need to delete it before actually cutting. So in the bottom, here is no image, but if there's an image, it will be off the finished product. Well, an example image of the product will be shown here, and there might be building instructions. But to be honest, there are very, very few generators that come with them. So if you want to write some open a ticket, I will add them here. At the bottom, you can choose a language. It currently is translated to... It is in English, it is translated to French and Chinese right now by Cotabrotas. So here's the Brunt Test, which allows you to check different fits. I need to speed up a bit. So there are a couple of different boxes. I have just put a couple of images here, for examples. On the top left is the one we've seen before. That's the angled box. The important thing is on the bottom right, which is the universal box, which is a normal box, but you can change the top and bottom edge and allow to add a lot of different features to the box. One thing that's worth knowing is, per edge type, there are settings that can be adjusted. It's not really intended to adjust everything, but there are a couple of things that are useful. So the angle is something you should leave alone, because it's typically set programmatically to something useful. There are different styles. There's a style that has small springs to make it easier to assemble. And this assemble the finger joints. The stuff that's really interesting to change is the fingers and the space, which is basically the width of the fingers and the space in between. This is a bit weird at first, because these are in multiples of the material thickness. That means if the fingers are of size 1 and the space of size 1, all fingers are basically little squares. And the default is to have them rectangular, one thickness high, two thicknesses wide. Another thing that's worth adjusting is the surrounding spaces, which gives how much space needs to be left under left and right, outside. The two is actually pretty nice. It means basically one space on each side and one complete space needs to be on the left and the right. But if you have a very tiny box or a tiny part, that means that you don't have any fingers at all. So it might be worth reducing this to like one or one-half to get this one finger that keeps your parts together. So these three are actually the ones you should have in mind. If you don't like your box, then you can adjust the width of the fingers in the spaces and the surrounding spaces. And that's basically all you need here, really. Many of the other settings can be ignored unless you have good reasons to play with them. Same for most other edge types. So, here an example of flexboxes, which was one of the first things I wanted to do. In retrospect, they're kind of a gimmick. So, it might work better. The current default settings are very, very flexible. They might be a bit better working if they were a bit wider and sturdier. But it's a nice gimmick, basically. It takes quite a long time to cut because there are a lot of lines to be cutting. I'm relatively proud of the one in the bottom right, which actually works. So you can slide on. The lid disappears underneath. Unfortunately, the photo doesn't show it. There's a second bottom underneath, so it actually really disappears and you can put something in there. So, let's come to the really useful stuff. This is trace and draws. You can either, on the bottom left, there's something you can put into a drawer. You might want to adjust it by hand with Inkscape or something. If you have a drawer, that's not perfectly square. There's not really something to do that within a generator. On the outside right, there is the type tray generator, which allows you to give all the distances between those walls. And on the left, there's an extended version of this, where you can not only give the distances you want for those walls, but you can also basically delete single walls. The interface is a bit, let's say, okay, it looks like this, scaled up. So it's basically a text area, where you can add those numbers, and then you can delete the single lines that represent those walls, and those walls will just not be rendered. So you can do more complicated setups like this. Then there are a couple of shelves, which are also useful. The Rhine rack is actually just around the corner. The middle shelf is the one in our hackerspace kitchens, to have all kinds of spices. Two on the left are actually contributions from the parties that needs and submitted their generators. Those shelves are actually in use at a lot of places. This is our snack bar in our hackerspace. It's a bit difficult to see in the pictures, but those shelves are slanted forward. So stuff will slide to the forefront. Of course, we had to do all kinds of corona stuff with Boxes Pi 2. That's the sad reality we had this year. There's a whole section for tools and sled walls. There's no good photos yet, because I'm not that happy how this works out yet. The actually finished items are okay. They're actually cool, but the problem is because the sled wall is actually meant to be ... So the sled wall holders are meant to be stamped from steel. So they are wide and strong and steel. I have only basically those small hooks. They might have thin plywood. And while they are able to hold the stuff up, they are easy to break, especially when you install it or uninstall it. And it's easy for them to get snagged and then broken off. So I might change that to actually use aluminum profiles to hook in there. But they're there. So there's another section with parts and samples. There's all kinds of stuff and we don't have pictures yet, but you can just slide through there. Let's look at the time. We need to hurry up a bit. Then there's a MISC-Session, which has all kinds of other stuff. There's an acrylic-colour insert that just got donated by a contributor like a couple of one or two months ago. On the top left, there is my Makita Akku-based power supply that makes use of a cheap Chinese Bench power supply. And there are all kinds of other things that are in there. Then there are a couple of bigger things that uses Box.py for as a basis. One of them is Flipper, my Cocktail-Borobot. This was done basically to see with how little vitamins one can build a Cocktail-Bot. So it's able to use 15 Bottles. And what it does is the thing on top turns around and then pulls these levers to tilt the bottles and then pour stuff into ice and go through the ice, it gets outcooled and mixed. Everything is done with only two stepper motors, whose heat sinks you can see or the heat sinks of the drivers you can see on top. Another thing is the Autobot. We did a couple of years ago, which is basically just an integrated Hingebox with Lex. We wanted to do this as a project for kids. Origin was 3D printed and 3D printing such a thing takes one evening per robot and now it takes like 12 or 15 minutes. Then there's our rotary attachment, which probably still needs a bit of work and love. So there's now a section. A lot of, there are a couple of people who do need finger joints and stuff, but don't want to go through the hassle of actually programming a new generator. And so what they do is they just take some boxes and cut them into pieces with Inkscape and then make something new out of that. We'll just want to show a couple of examples so to get a feeling of what can be done. Don't ask me about the details, because that's not what I do. So, there was the charging station for the Conquerors, I think two years ago. There's an useless machine, which should actually be a generator, but you can also just combine two different boxes and have one. And here's a Maslow-type milling machine that we are currently building that's also made out of simple pieces of boxes pie, heavily modified, to be honest. So, I will just be a bit of late, where we'll skip this part. Generally, if you design something, it's important that you make good use of the material and a way to get stiffness and things is basically to enclose volume. That gives the stuff strength and to keep all your forces within the walls. Basically, the more boxy it is, the stronger and stiffer and better it is. I want to show here some detail of the Maslow-Machine, where you can see really nicely how all the parts are basically trying to wrap around the bolt they're holding and basically supporting the part from all directions. So, whenever something needs to move, it needs to twist a whole wall within itself, which is, of course, not that easy. The thing is, wood is relatively flexible, so you need to get a stiffness and strength from the form itself. And that's a good example of how this can be done, instead of just having one wall that attaches. So, if you're interested, you can also do your own generators. If you don't want to use to go down the inkscape routes, there's some documentation that's linked on the generator on the bottom. It might be worth asking for help first, because I'm a lazy guy, so a lot of things can be done easily, if you know how to do them. And if you're not, there's a long route that you probably want to avoid. Architectures, although it's just total graphics, there are a lot of abstraction layers to make this feasible. So, there's the top layer with the UIs. There are the generators. There's code for handling the settings. And there are setting glasses for all those edge types. Then there's a handful of parts that are basic shapes. They do have callbacks, so whenever you need holes or features within one of those walls, you have a callback to use or you have a callback per edge, you can use to put those in place. In there, the main work of the library is done by the edges. And so adding a new edge type allows you to add features to the outside of some parts. So a lot of things can be done easily by just trading a new edge type and put it at the right place. And at the bottom are, of course, drawing permatives, if you really want to draw stuff on your own or use them to implement the edges. That's basically the very, very rough overview. There's some documentation that's worth looking at, or you can just ask me or Penetrate it. Happy Lasering! Thank you for a nice talk. I hope all the people could get something out of it and want to play around with that. Just one question at the end. I have an answer from the Signal Angel. There's Douglas. He has a 3D printer for which a laser attachment is available for about 30€. It has a violet laser with 500mW. Is this sufficient to cut wood? Let's say this is a dangerous toy. So this is just enough to damage your eyes. I mean, you can probably cut paper with it. And if you're running it very, very long, it will cut through wood at some point, in no point. So our laser cutter has 80W. And while it might not focus as well as a diode, it's probably not a good idea.  And the box should not let any of the laser type you're using through. So the CO2 laser has the benefit that it doesn't go through. So a lot of materials are not transparent for the CO2 laser. But ultraviolet laser is another story. So it will probably go through acrylic and stuff like this.  And you won't be able to have fun with boxes like this. That won't work. There's a reason why our machine costs like 3 zeros more than that. Okay, thank you for the information. That's it from the Q&A. For everyone here at remote congress, I wish you a nice event.


I mean, I'm gonna be honest man. This is just embarrassing. It feels like we're going crawling back to our ex Welcome back to the channel. I'm watching more Dragon Ball Super today And we are going to find Frieza out of anyone probably the last person I thought Goku was gonna say whatever we that we realized we needed a 10th member since boo fell asleep So I guess that's the way we live a couple hours So it's not like we have that many more friends that we could just check in with that are that strong I'm gonna hop right into it. If you knew the channel, don't forget to drop us up and let's get started No, the other reason we know Yes It's so crazy it might just work Oh for 24 hours I mean, it's not like Frieza will say no because if they lose he dies the universe ceases to exist the universe to be destroyed. Yes And he's really strong try something evil the first chance it get maybe 24 hours, what's the worst he could do? Well, imagine he's a tax Zeno. It's not like you'd act as pitifully desperate Kakarot Usually you'd be confident in your own strength. He is but that's what he knows You can take care of reason if anything happens or I think One of the other universes has produced mortal so strong even their own destroyer can't if what wait, is it the robots? Oh my gosh, he said have produced maybe just means like they're warriors. We'll be just fine I can't wait for this conversation Me or Vegeta will take him. That's what I'm saying He's confident that he can take care of of Frieza if anything happens and he kind of tested Vegeta's ego right there We're recruiting the dead. We're so desperate. We're going for the dad My gosh, this is gonna be so uncomfortable Buddy's just gonna come back with Frieza in tow What? Who is that a scout? Mahogany I don't have time to explain but the point is we're in some serious There's no reason for Goku to lie If he does fly off the rails, you'll handle him Yeah, oh wait true wouldn't have to deal with them Passport trying to get Kale to go Super Sam Kale doesn't seem about it. These Sands are so small bro. I Love her hair. I think it's cuz she's so small her hair looks huge It seems like it was like she has this latent ability because she goes Super Saiyan so easily like bro for it to be awakened It's usually like this traumatic event or you gotta be pushed to some limit He's like Kale do you have anybody you care about She's gonna turn like one strand of hair. Oh wait like one strand of hair Super Saiyan No, she's doing it Buddy just learned it Seems clumsy to me, but if she doesn't seem like the type to get angry though Okay, Frieza listen no offense, but what are you talking about? He does not seem like the insulting type the dark side of Actually gas wait, he's actually offending or he's not even making her mad You told him to Don't got a ton of time What have I told you about saying that you can not do oh my gosh What is that? Is it awakening from sadness? Oh my god, that looks like way more than Super Sam. Oh my god She's just Versa is so juice Okay, maybe they do stand some something of a chance at the tournament that makes things more interesting to say the least So sure about that seems he once led a great Mm-hmm could prove hard for the hmm. He put some respect on Frieza's name spies of yours to other universes He was a spy Yep, I mean Zeno could find out they could see everything This emperor's name is Frieza. What if he knows the name?  Oh He doesn't seem angry. He's probably bored now out with it I missed his voice man the voice actor changed though by this point No, I think the first passed away and takes it which in primate come up with a scheme You could say that oh shoot and back to Gale. This is so confusing to me Wait, she's like lost it. It seems like she's like she's like mad with power. It's not even kale anymore Well, she for real gonna hurt Kaba Why is everything Kaba's fault? I don't think you can even talk to kale right now either way Like I said juice kale is gonna make this sort of a very interesting like how powerful is she? Oh, she can be crazy powerful Kaba landed a hit He's rising Where was this latent ability just hidden away? Oh, we still need to understand Kala plus either She seems pretty powerful too in that like red beam My goodness, dude, these sayings are so naturally talented Oh, you mean the youth that's so sweet Oh, she's back She's already whimpering bro I came for one strong ally. She's so small Yeah, but how are you gonna get that power out of her in the tournament? He's gonna keep insulting her.  The world instantly just grew dark Fascinating tale Of course Okay, buddy You're stuck here I dropped this card so fast go crew new he would Yeah, he's gonna have as much fun as he can in this 24 hours now Frieza tries something 100% Okay, buddy, yeah, right Yeah, I mean maybe he knows how desperate they are that they would come to him Oh Every Wait, is it a new form leave it to the biggest villain in the universe to exploit my oh my yeah asking the fight You saying you're on board or not. I am If you'll make me that promise. Oh my gosh, I think Goku will yeah I promise if we win and Goku's not want to lie either. Take me some time to gather them all. Oh He'll just take his sweet time So there's no point Of course he asks that sorry to disappoint, but no kitty that does complicate I want him to interact with frost so bad, bro fortune teller Baba will come for you. Okay. I thought they were gonna score It's so chill Take this is that the Zeno button these grand Zeno guys rest this button and you can meet him anytime you want He's giving her the Zeno button. I'll bring you something later, but he was about a border with that my view of the seventh We need to be careful or they could surprise. Mm-hmm. Amen. I'm so sorry Lord Oh, he's gonna have like a direct counter What would be a direct counter to their entire universe though one hour and 30 minutes remain hour and a half Okay, so this episode like two went by right an hour and a half went by also is Kittala Targeting the seventh because it's Goku because like all the universes are mad at Goku for this entire tournament Or is it just because of the spy got back to I'm assuming it's in the spider like every universe But this is just the one that we saw his like reporting their findings on I mean it's smart He didn't say it's not against the rules, which is true. I don't honestly blame him for doing it But I mean you can only prepare so much in terms of espionage for a tournament like this and in the end You're gonna just have to find your strongest fighters and pray because there's gonna be counters from one universe to another that It's gonna take a little bit of luck in this tournament not just sheer power at least the beginning until some people start getting knocked out I feel like it's just gonna be chaos at first and then once it gets down to really the strongest of the strongest That's whatever the sheer strength of each universe will really come into play either that or straight up just teamwork guys That's been it for my reaction episode 93 of Dragon Ball Super you need their channel Don't forget to drop a sub I'll catch you in the next one. Peace. Peace


Next question is from Thor Davey. What are the benefits of the floor press versus the traditional bench press for those working out at home? You guys ever train the floor press consistently in your workout? I have. Not consistently. So I did it for a little while when I was trying to get to a 400 pound bench press. I never got there. I got up to I think 365 or something like that. But it did increase my bench press. It did get me to add another, I think it was like 10 or 15, which is a big number when you're reaching your limit with the bench press. And the benefits that I saw from the bench from the floor press were this. It negates the leg drive. So it's all upper body pressing. Right. Isolates it. Yeah. People don't realize that when you do a bench press, when you're maximizing your strength, there's a lot of leg drive that's involved. It's just activating those legs. When you're on the floor, you can't. If you do, you end up lifting your hips off the floor. So it's all upper body. It also forces you to pause at the bottom and focus on lockout. Lockout is the top of a bench press and for strength athletes. So floor presses are super popular with power lifters. Super. It's a staple exercise for power lifters specifically to train that lockout portion of the bench press where a lot of these guys will miss a top lift because they can't get that last two inches of their. Yeah. And I think that's probably why I didn't stick with it in my program quite as well. The lockout for me was never really the issue. It was mainly like at the bottom portion of the lift that I struggled the most, but this is definitely one of those I see like in power lifters do a great job of this, of taking like components of that entire lift and kind of breaking it apart. And so this definitely like works specifically on that lockout portion and stabilizing and digging your way out of, you know, that position once you stall. So I think that, I think this question is coming from somebody who isn't necessarily doing it because they, they're trying to find better benefits, but maybe because they have to because they don't have a bench, right? They're at home, they're doing a home workout and they're doing floor pressing. So your limiting range of motion is going to be my critique. So, and it is. And so I don't, I don't see a lot of value for the floor press for most people, unless it's like a sticking point, a power lifter, and it's a very specific reason why you're doing this exercise. You don't see a lot of benefit into intentionally incorporating it for most people. And if you're asking this question because you don't have a bench and so of course you, okay, you get on the floor and you press and so you're limited because of that, then, and I've had this before where clients are in a hotel room or they don't have that and they're like, what do we do? So what I do with them is actually like a floor press, but then right before or right after. So you can, you can do a pre-exhaust or you can do it after you do the floor press. I actually flip the dumbbells on their heads and actually have them do really deep push-ups off to offset it, right? So I take them through that full range of motion because I wouldn't want them to train off the floor all the time and shorten that range of motion up. I would prefer that they go really deep and through full range of motion. So one of the best ways to do that for a push-up is to elevate your hands so you can go even deeper on the push-up. So I would do those back to back. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say, I agree. I'd say the most carryover is to increase your bench press. Here's something else you want to keep in mind. I've heard people say, oh, it's safer on the shoulders. Not necessarily because you're on the floor and it's a big, hard, wide floor or whatever. I have found it in myself to sometimes limit my scapular movement or mobility because I'm on the floor because I'm on a bench, my shoulders are a little wider than the bench so my scapula can fall together a little bit. So pay attention to that. If you do this, you still want to have your shoulders pinned down and back on the floor. Otherwise, you end up pressing with this rounded shoulder and that can cause problems. If I had the option, I would have, if this is my client and you were asking this question too, I would actually have you get, if you, you know, maybe the bench is really expensive, I'd have you get a foam roll and actually have you put the foam roll down your spine. Or a half foam roll. Yeah. Yeah.  Laying flat on the ground will flatten out your back and a lot of times promote the forward shoulder because it's really tough to retract and squeeze in that position on the floor. So I would like to see that client on a foam roll over the floor.