Everybody tonight we're debating whether or not it's okay for kids to go to drag queen shows and we're starting right now With Vosh is opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us Vosh. The floor is all yours Yeah, simple answer is depends on the drag queen show because drag queen shows can be like a lot of different things The issue is like right now. We're experiencing Pretty near record local inflation We're dealing with a lot of real civic issues and I feel like in times like these there are some people who want to distract from those issues and Lock us in an interminable culture war debate over things that don't really mean anything in this case You know, we're talking about something that is You know, I think calling it a bit of a moral panic might even be a bit too charitable here, you know Now when it comes to like why should people care about this? Where are we deriving this fear from? Well, I know it's not from any studies there to my knowledge No studies or no collected data on like harm done to children due to drag shows You know, if there are and I'm about to be blindsided by them Then I will be absolutely astonished But I don't think that's going to happen in the absence of those studies when it comes to explaining how it is harmful for Children to be at drag shows. You know what we often rely on is Narrativization we spin stories about what drag shows are like we make them sound very scary We use loaded language to charge people's emotions and direct them against the thing They already have a bias against but that's the thing that type of behavior only really works if you have a preexisting bias You know to a person who is terrified of birds You can narrativize how it's irresponsible to let your children go to the boardwalk because there might be seagulls there You know, they're big cloying mouths and their shriek piercing cries The you know tendency of them to swoop down on tourists and grab french fries sometimes fighting with the tourists clawing at their eyes You know, if a person has a fear of birds, this might be a very compelling argument But we take kids the boardwalk anyway, so I guess I'm just wondering like what specific elements of drag shows Do we think are inappropriate for children? A drag show is just a kind of Gender performance. It's wearing costume and affecting behaviors where gender identity or presented identity Are like the central themes of the show the sources of this go back literal millennia You know, in fact, I believe the term drag is literally taken from tendencies in old English theater For men to dress up as women in theater parts. This happened all the way back in the Roman days I mean this goes back a long time. So why the panic now, right?  I'm sure there are some drag shows that are inappropriate for kids I've been to some of them and then there are some that are like PGG even, you know, the only possible harm the only thing insipid about them are Harmful that you could think of really it's just the fact that there's something that a lot of people aren't comfortable with Which is drag clothing, but it's not really an argument, right? It's a free country discomfort with something doesn't mean that you should be able to bar people's children from being there, you know I don't like seafood. I don't I don't think you should keep children from going to seafood restaurants Anyway, those are my arguments. Go right ahead You got to thank you very much for that opening vaj and if it's your first time here at modern day debate folks I want to let you know we are a neutral debate channel hosting debates on science religion and politics We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from and if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button as we have many More debates coming up for example one this weekend whether or not science is more compatible with atheism or Theism you don't want to miss it. That's at the bottom right of your screen and with that Alex Joe or Alex Stein thanks for being with us the floor Basically the same Okay, well, you know and I just want to start off by saying I think vaj made a good point There is a little bit of what I call gay panic That's a little you know overdone right now and you know, I'm considered conservative and ever since I went to the drag queen Excuse me drag your kids to pride event where kids are being sexualized into in tipping the women like you know Or the drag queens like strippers I'm getting a lot of outrage where people are sending me normal drag, you know drag brunches and that's I'm like come on I don't want to go to a normal drag brunch, you know, I think the focus of this is a drag event That is focused towards children So, you know, I and that in that sense I do think we're going a little too far because I have a libertarian mindset when it comes to that if you want to Be a drag queen. I think that's totally okay. See for me where it becomes a problem Because the problem is is right now we have a society that's over sexualizing our young people And I think it was different when we were young when I would go on the internet I had 56k modem and I didn't get it. I think it was like 14 or 15 So we had a playboy magazine that we'd like pass around But now with the invention of the internet and with the cell phone a kid is on an iPad They can literally type in boobs and they can find, you know, all kinds of disgusting stuff, right? You know, so they have more access to pornography now So I think just over overall society is sexualizing children Now the reason why there's a panic going on with uh, you know kids going to drag shows is for me I think the worst part about it is the sexual imprinting that it will have on a young kid's mind I still remember one of the first times that I was ever attracted to a woman. I remember it was the movie Teen Wolf with Michael J. Fox at the beginning of the movie the girl was in a bra And I remember being sexually aroused and that was a young thing I don't know and I remember losing my virginity like it was yesterday And I'm you know, that was a long time ago because I'm a pimp on a blend But that's neither here nor there So what I'm saying is your first sexual experiences are often very memorable a lot different than like the sexual experiences that I had in college You know, so the reason why is because your brain is very malleable You know these these things imprint on your brain. So the reason why the sexual drag show for a child is not okay It's because first of all, we shouldn't sexualize children the same reason There's an age to drink alcohol the same reason there's an age to go to the military This is the same reason there's age requirements or anything There should be an age requirement for a kid to go to a drag show because When a kid goes to a drag show and they see a man just as a woman in a thong in breasts They might organically become sexually aroused and then later on in life They find out that was a man and now they might have sexual confusion And I think we live in a world where a lot of people have sexual confusion because they've been desensitized by all the sexualization That's around them. So for me it is the long-term effects of the desensitization Of young kids sexual experiences by going to an adult drag show now He could say oh well going a kid going to Hooters is bad too. I don't necessarily think the young kids should go to Hooters I don't think young kids should be Sexualized I mean should there be a limit, you know, you know in states There's uh age of consent laws Maybe you could argue that when they're at the age of consent law that he could go to a drag show But the one that I went to had very young kids. I'm talking about toddlers Five six year olds that were on their you know on their video game Nintendo handheld nintendo's and the parents were putting them down and making them watch the drag the drag queen So this is the problem is we have a society now where parents are using children As like social media clout in order to transition them in order to you know Oversexualize them because they're trying to fix some sort of trauma that happens in their life And I think bill marr who's a you know a huge leftist He made a very good point the amount of kids that are transitioning and on gender hormone therapy in los angeles compared to Ohio is You know, it's like 10,000 times more. I'm just saying that number generally, but it's a lot more The reason why is because having a trans kid is a lot like having a vegan cat It's the parents making the decision So the problem and all this how this connects to the drag drag your kids to pride event is these kids aren't making the decision It's their parents. These kids don't have the ability to get in a car and drive there. They don't even know what they're going to I remember being my mom would take me to the mall. I would hate it. You know, I mean much less my mom never dragged me to a Drag queen story time, you know, thank god But this is another reason so in my experience when I went to the drag drag your kids to pride event where it was a Drag race or whatever you want to call it a drag event for children It was very unusual because there was a glass doors where normally they'd have windows and there were protesters outside I was one of them But they covered up the windows with paper like trying to hide the events So if everything was in there was just so kosher and you know, non-sexual and not a big deal I don't think they would have to hide in the shadows and do this So for me, it's just wrong on all levels letting a young person see this and get sexually confused And then later on in life, they might have sexual confusion because your first experience is with any sort of sexual Whether it's an actual sexual experience or seeing pornography or seeing anything, you know overtly sexual on a tv or movie It does imprint some sort of memory on your brain that's different than when you're older and you're more Desensitized to it because you're extra sensitive to it the younger you are So since you're more sensitive to the content that you're seeing at a younger age It has more of a damage to your mind So that's why we need to protect young kids and not take them to drag shows That's why there should be legislation where we outlaw that and I'm not saying we should outlaw drag shows You can have drag shows all day long and go ahead. I mean, I'm all about that libertarian mindset You know, I think that's totally okay. I think, uh, you know, there is a little bit of over panic.   I really don't care.  They're so effective with their Synthetic breasts and their thongs you could very easily be confused So it's that confusion and that sensitivity of their brain and their sexual experiences is why we have to protect kids at all cost From them going to these events now Listen, I'm not going to attack you. I don't want to I don't I don't want to get into like an ad hominem attack Where I attack you but what? Oh, gosh, sorry. I gotta I don't know. I meant to turn off my uh sorry I'm getting a super chat. I thought I turned him off. I apologize. Okay. Sorry about that. Let me delete that alert box Okay, what I'm saying back to my point is we're having a We're having a society where young kids are being the victim of child grooming now you can say Oh, well, that's a conspiracy Yet you look at disney movies today compared to disney movies in the past when they talk about, you know The the same sex relationships and those that they'll keep here in america But they take out oftentimes in china and in these other foreign countries in saudi arabia They don't post the rainbow flag So my problem is is that we have a culture and corporations that don't have the ability to feel empathy That are taking advantage of young kids And uh, basically brainwashing them into a mindset of sexual confusion that they might not be ready for and that I know at a young age Being five six seven years old. I was not ready to hang out at a bar That's you know for adults and that's oftentimes where these drag brunchers are they're at bars because they serve alcohol So we need to as a society stand up for our children because I think they're the biggest victim of the child's grooming That's obvious and now you can say you look at all the teachers that have been caught Sexually grooming children. You look at all of the people in the catholic church that have been caught Sexually grooming children. You look at the border crisis. There's all kinds of sex trafficking You look at denis hastert who was speaker of the house was a pedophile You look at jeffrey eppstein who flew on them lowly to express with bill clinton 26 times With no secret service. You look at uh, huma abidine's husband anthony wiener was sexting young Children he went to jail for it So there's people in high powerful positions kentaji brown jackson her resume is very Lacks on shot people that are convicted of child pornography So I don't really think it is a conspiracy in my mind even though i'm a conspiracy theorist that there are people in powerful positions That are trying to sexualize our children So for me we have to do whatever we can to protect them and keep them away from drag shows Because that is just a slippery slope where it's going to be more sexual exploitation And more sexual confusion for young people that are super sensitive to the content that they're seeing Got it. Thank you very much for that opening statement We're going to kick it into open discussion Our guests are linked in the description if you'd like to hear more you certainly can by clicking on those links below To hear more about their views. Thanks very much gentlemen. The floor is all yours All right. Well, I've got a lot to respond to there. Um, unfortunately 90 percent of it wasn't about the subject at hand Um, this is what I mean unfortunately about narrativization There's a lot of stuff that you threw in there that I mean is about as meaningful as you might get from like a random war generator um sexual confusion for example, um You're going to need to sell me pretty hard on the an idea that there is some kind of social cancer associated with children seeing Men dressed as women and finding them hot and then later realizing they were in dragon getting damaged by it. That's just I I don't know if this is a self-report thing. I just don't consider this like a thing even worth thinking about This is you know, I I leave to the to the concours of the brains of the people who experience this very strange problem You know, I leave them to their own issues You threw in there that um trans youth are more common in california than in I believe, Ohio. I mean, uh, yeah, obviously Uh trans youth are more likely to make it known that they're trans if they know their parents are supportive Or if they know what trans people are an awareness of what trans people are and that you can share that with your friends and family Is usually what leads people to come out as trans Ohio has presumably fewer trans friendly parents than California does so that makes total sense. We see similar patterns happening in other parts of the world We saw the same happen with a lot of other things like being gay for example or even left-handed us, you know About a hundred years ago Um, so we have that um, I guess I want I want to get back to the the drag thing because you didn't You didn't tell me what about the drag shows you didn't like, you know So you said like the kids giving the people money. Well, you can give like busters money, you know Um on third street promenade in los angeles, or I'm sorry in Santa Monica Like there are people out there pretending to be robot men with like silver paint all over their skin Or who are playing the guitar and like people will give their kids dollar bills to hand to the You know the per the person who's busking or performing or whatever I don't know if there's anything weird about that necessarily If there's like a drag show that's very like sexual and everyone's like super dressed down or whatever I think that's inappropriate for kids, but that's not most drag shows. Certainly not the ones marketed towards children Um, like the drag queen story hour thing for example, you know Conservatives are so up in arms about this that the texas gop named them in their list of priorities in 2022 And every time I see a picture from drag queen story hour is somebody wearing like more clothing than I am now They're wearing more clothing than more than you are now like they're wearing like mountains of clothing It's basically just a halloween costume. You know cons just don't like it because there's like a gender element there But that's not linked to any harm. There's not like any way to substantiate harm being done there I agree that we should protect children from adverse social effects But the thing is if you're going to make a psychiatric case for this like there has to be some kind of evidence We know that it's harmful for example like to Sexualize children by making them the sexual objects like for example, if there's a child who's being like told to perform or dance Whatever, I think that can be pretty bad Um, or like the idea of like grooming like when an older person is trying to like come on to a younger person or um Try to like prepare them for exploitation.  I think at the beginning you said Of what you just said, you know, there's no proof that uh sexualization of a chill of a child would affect them later on in life I believe I didn't say that I just said that sexualization of a kid would be negative for them Well, but what was the first thing you said because I was talking about how it have You know has long-term effects You said there's no studies that would find that it would have the idea of it being harmful for a kid To see a guy in a dress and think they're cute But then later realize they're a guy and be damaged by that is a completely fictitious Fragment of your or somebody you know, psyche being projected into this conversation. This is why I would disagree with that So if somebody was molested by their priest by a male priest, you know, uh at a young age Maybe they were touched sexually by a male. Do you think that that would cause sexual confusion later in the line? What does molestation Have to do with seeing a guy in a dress? How are how are these because it's not just seeing a guy in a dress I think corrosion was bad too. In case you were going to ask me That's not what these drag queens shows are vashu You said seeing a drag queen and finding them hot which kids find I mean kids can find a body You know, I know when I was like in elementary school. I thought my teacher was hot whatever and then like they realized first of all I don't know how the kid would be if they're at a drag show I think they know it's a drag show But even if they even if they didn't like know or whatever or if they just saw a drag queen walking in the street Like during a festival or something I had no idea and then like later they realized it was drag and that hurt them I don't get that.  No I keep saying something and then you're like, okay. Well, you do realize We're talking about Finding this is what I'm saying. Well here. Let me just say this point. Use the words that I use not like your Use so much words out. It's hard. It's hard to repeat it But this is my point being is that these people when they go to these events It's not like you said tipping a busker outside like you're tipping somebody playing the piano playing the guitar on the street It's not that oftentimes it's simulating like a strip club and I'm sure you've been to a strip club You put money in their g-string you put money in their clothes and it's a very sexual connotation So it's not the same as out on a street putting a dollar bill into a hat Would you but I don't think most of these I don't think most of these drag shows are having kids walk up and like put dollar bills in these You didn't usually people in drag are wearing a lot of clothes. No, no. I'm not saying it doesn't Bad things happen everywhere. I'm sure there are drag shows that have happened Which I believe are irresponsible, but you're talking about all drag shows and children and mind you the point We're on right now isn't the tipping. It's on the sexual confusion thing. I don't get that How does it harm a kid to see or to be attracted to? Like an like a drag queen or ever then later they're like, oh, it was a drag queen Like what's the sexual? Would you argue that you're more sexually sensitive at a younger age and that you get desensitized towards sex as you get older Would you agree with that boss? I don't I don't know what that means exactly. I think that you're more confused about Boss, what sensitive is a very good. I'll do respect. I'll do respect Wait, no, wait, wait, wait. Hold on because it depends. Okay depends what you mean by sensitive because if by sensitive You mean like susceptible to then the answer is no I'm way way way more perceptive of sexual influences as an adult, but I am okay Let's make it easy Let's make it easy the more time you the more times you see a breast the first time you see a breast Is your brain have a bigger chemical reaction than the thousandth time you've seen a pair of breasts? Um, I imagine I I remember it being pretty cool the first time I saw tits That's exactly my point boss, but I would have been zero. My mom would have been breastfeeding me Listen, what I'm saying is we're not talking about the time and we know that you are raised on formula boss We can tell that's not a big deal.  I'm just teasing I'm just teasing were you No, wait, hold on. Listen, if you if you had to wait till you were 18 to see a titty that's on you. Okay Um, listen, I would I didn't wait till 18. I remember my first titty like it was yesterday That's my I wasn't I didn't even have a prefrontal cortex developed when I saw my first titty And I guess I I don't feel like getting breastfed naturally by my mother led to me Having you know negative Confusion down the line.  Then lady. You think they're a drag queen Where's the harm? What's the heart where where is the harm like where what's psychiatric? Damage would you be able to identify as a product of that? I just think it'd be very simple because people would have sexual confusion later on in life People are very insecure. Most people are insecure right and so let's say later on in life They realize oh, well, I was attracted one of my first sexual experiences was being attracted to a man That was just as a woman I think I personally think that I have long-term effects similar to that of if you were molested by a person of the same sexual Even an opposite sex and why do you think that? Because your first sexual experiences can if they're like traumatic or you didn't want them to happen They weren't by your choice like a parent dragging to a drag show it can oftentimes be you know Very traumatic is my point. So if you if you met someone who was molested as a kid and you you would be like Oh, yeah, dude. I felt that when I was six years old. I saw a drag queen and they were hot and then later I realized they were a drag queen Well, that's molestation. Isn't that kind of way molestation massively like isn't that kind of no Disrespectful to victims No, I don't think so at all. I think by Exposing kids even to pornography is in form of molestation And I think that this would be a sexualization of people wearing clothes that is very sexual So, yeah, I would think this is a form. Is it we're only talking about fighting I think there's I think there's a spectrum of molestation. There's worse molestation I'm just saying all all molestation is bad But I'm saying it can be worse. There's forms of molestation that are worse than other forms So I think this would be a form of molestation which involves no contact whatsoever. That's a pretty powerful Telekinetic molestation perhaps you don't have to physically if you if I was to expose my genitals to somebody that is a form of molestation You don't have to touch them. Would you yeah, we're talking about fully clothed people here? So I don't feel yeah, but they're not necessarily fully clothed. I wouldn't consider a thong fully clothed I mean, we're not we're not talking about I've been to drag shows thongs are by far not the most common And I've yet to see by the way a drag show from any of these right-wing ops undercover Of like a drag show where anyone was wearing a thong Usually they're I can pull it. I mean Let's call it a bikini cut. Let's call it a bikini cut then. I still when I was a young kid If you find me that though, then I'll disagree with it But you're the one attacking drag queens as a concept here. No, and I don't want to attack drag queens as a concept I actually said that drag queens are fine. I don't want children to experience drag shows when they're too young I think that they should wait to be of age because I think that it has long lasting traumatic effects Can you point to any evidence of that? Because we have evidence that actual molestation the word when used correctly is harmful to children, you know, quite I'm not using the word if your parents drag you to an event that you did not choose to go to No, you're not advising again. Alex. I'm not talking about do you think these children are getting in their cars that they can't legally drive And going and finding and seeking out these drag events on their own Or do you think they're being taken there by adults? You're not getting me off topic adults choose every place children go to Exactly We're only talking about you saying that seeing a drag queen just maybe like 50 feet away Thinking they're hot and then later realizing they're a drag queen. That's not that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying add a drag show I'm not saying 50 feet away across the street You're much closer. What I saw is the kids were touching drag queens. They were sashaying. No, it wasn't 50 feet across the street And we were talking about you're not 50 feet away. Alright, first of all, I do have to jump in just to reset it Yeah, I just want to say Alex first of all, let me remind you of what you're saying here Okay, because you keep running to different topics like you're scared of the one you brought up I'm not scared of any topic. You're trying to you're trying to change the topic to molestation To see a drag queen as a child at a drag event at the drag event not just walking down the street We're talking about going to a drag show. I'm not talking about. Oh, you just see a drag queen You see too long food or whatever. You just see a movie. I'm talking about going to a drag show If the issue is just seeing them, wait, Alex, please you have to you have to know what you're responding to Let me let me clarify what I mean. Alex, you're not helping me. I'm trying to tell you what I mean It's just because it's like you're trying to change what I'm trying to say Alex just for people to be able to hear you guys I can give you guys two minutes I just I just want to lay out what he said so he can explain it to me I just want to be educated about across the street, boss. I never said that you said that looking at a trans or sorry, not a trans person a drag looking at a at a drag show So looking at a drag queen at a drag show this effect of sexual confusion of being erently attracted To a drag queen then later realizing they're a drag queen and being confused that can only happen at a drag show But it can't happen if you just see a drag queen outside on a smoke break. It's not possible for that to happen To a child. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying it's more likely to happen at these drag events Where they're like cognitive hazards. They just like wound children in the flesh I get what you're trying to do, but I'm talking about a kid at a drag show where they're tipping them And they're two feet from the drag queen not just seeing a drag wait. No, we're not talking about tipping We're talking about you walking outside. Alex. You're doing it again. We're just not doing it You're doing it. You know what I'm talking about. No, because you keep talking about other things Okay, let me make it clear.  That is what I'm talking about That is a sexual implantation. I don't understand how you cannot understand that I'm not talking about walking a street 50 feet away I'm talking about the kids that are going to a drag show like the topic of this debate Why that is bad and I know that you understand what I'm saying So you're trying to distract from it It doesn't matter. It's talking about going to a drag show and experiencing the event up close I'm not just walking by them at a street because tipping is a big part of drag show If you're such an expert of drag shows, you know, that's a big part of it. They get tipped money Do you under do you agree with that adult drag shows? I don't do they tip them Do they tip them often? No. No, I've been the ones where they don't Usually the stage is too high for you to even throw money up. It just flutters in the air. Look So if if tipping is not the relevant part there The relevant part is going to the drag show. The relevant part is kids being exposed to drag queens at a drag show That's the relevant part Where the harm is coming from because I thought you were saying the harm is coming from merely being attracted to a drag queen As a kid which can happen regardless of the context in which you see a drag queen It can happen anywhere. It can happen from the tv like that's not That's not the same the harm is much worse when you're ingratiated inside of a bar That's for people that are 21 and up that you couldn't even why you keep adding things that aren't the drag queen bit You're like, I'm asking you if the drag events happen at 21 and up of places That is where they what if it's not at a 21 and up place It usually is it usually is other than drag queen story time and in those situations They don't tip but still they're very they're interacting up close with the drag queen It's not at all necessarily true You know kid friendly drag events aren't like the center piece of drag events generally But when they happen they can be Hosted in all sorts of places. So what what's even the issue with it being like a bar? Like if they clear out the alcohol, it's just a room Well, they didn't clear out the alcohol if they've been dallas their parents are still drinking So I don't think that's okay. I haven't been to dallas. Uh, well parents couldn't drink at like a restaurant with their kids there I'm just saying like the kids can't get at the alcohol I don't know what the issue is with like the place normally being 21 plus My dad had beers when I would go with him to like I understand your dad had beers. I'm sure he had a lot of beers. I can tell but what I'm saying is it's not Like so if we want to what what are we if we want to get into ad-homs here? Okay? I'm holding You're talking about yourself I said I can tell right now Alex. I'm going easy and slow for you. I agreed with you vosh and you're that's not an Ad-hominem attack. I said your dad probably had a lot of beers. What are you? What are you complaining about? Dad's a hard-working union man overall. I know what I'm sure he is I'm not even I'm just saying he's gotta keep you just said my dad had beers and I said I'm sure your dad had a lot of beers and all of a sudden you got triggered Why are you running away from the implication? I'm not running away. I want to talk about this You're not even letting me speak vosh I'm not a weasel at all. I'm standing up for what I believe in and I'm saying and speaking the truth And I'm trying to clarify everything so that you understand in a very see vosh You're trying to do this because you know that you're wrong. You know that it's not okay for kids I don't even know how kids are getting harmed here. I still don't even know so I We don't understand how Yes If there's like if they're like like strippers shows basically and there are some drag shows that are like basically strip shows But almost everyone that I've been to as an adult for ones that kids can't get into Usually has them wearing more clothing than i'm currently wearing Dressing the same way that you'd see like I don't know Britney Spears dress in a music video which I guess like Is is sexually charged? I mean Britney Spears was a sex icon for a good portion of her career But I don't think that you could say like yeah Children are being done harm comparable to molestation When they see something like that in person. I've seen a lot of these shows play out You know people doing a little dance. I mean what because they're dressed up I just I don't get it.  No Elvis like Britney Spears. They're they're dropping it to the flow. You know what they're doing They're twerking that booty. They're shaking it up and down around and around. You know, I know you're trying to play cute You're trying to you're thinking of it. Are you trying to make me think of this the way you're thinking of this right?  That's funny.  I've been to a drag stand-up comedy, but actually I'm sure they exist They do but that's not what this is We're not talking about comedy show the performativity of the outfit You don't have to dance about drag shows where they're dancing and they're shaking their butts Simulating at being like a strip club.  So that's what so all this other shit about like Do you think as a kid would do they get attracted if they see like on a playground if they see up a girl's skirt Would a kid get attracted to that just seeing up a girl's skirt Keep asking me questions about what kids get attracted to but I guess when I was a kid Yeah, I would have found it cute to see So do you think it's okay for for a drag queen in a skirt to lift up their skirt Even if they have a bathing suit bottom under even if they're fully covered Just an insinuation that they're lifting up their skirt when they dance Do you think that that's sexual and that a kid could accidentally get attracted to that? Is that possible vosh like that Like the Madonna thing where she like puts her skirt down from the from the wind, but it blows up But well, you know what I'm referring to you don't look at all. They're probably okay. Yeah, Marilyn Marilyn Monroe. Yes Yeah, I mean I there's a lot of drags at dress in Marilyn Monroe where they lift up their dress and do that That's actually a common thing a drag event. Yeah, I I get I guess that can happen. I don't necessarily know if that's bad I mean telling me a kid seeing a simulated up skirt that you just said would you be attracted to at a young age? That's not bad. Is that what you're saying? I'm trying to think I feel like every movie from the 1980s would now be comparable to molesting in your eyes Because like no the level the level of like sexual Suggestiveness that you're referring to is ubiquitous in a ton of media like grease I mean like if you go back, I feel I'm worried that I could go back and watch like Seinfeld episodes with the modern republican And they'd be like, okay this episode right here This is child grooming and it's like because at one point like a girl does like a sexy dance Because she's like the girl the episode or something. That's not you're comparing apples and oranges Well, what is the apple? I'm talking about at a drag show if a girl lifts up her dress or the drag queen lifts up their dress Even if they have full undergarments on it can be kind of it can have a sexual connotation to it A lot of can have lasting effects similar to that if somebody were to expose their genitals to a shoulder I absolutely do not believe that doing a sexy dance is in any way comparable to flashing somebody I have no idea where you would get that from Well, because there's because there's videos of a drag queens I can even pull them up But I don't want to get a strike on youtube where they have the synthetic breasts And there's a viral video where they're shaking them up and down with no coverage And because the synthetic breasts look so real they look like real breasts So that does happen where they're literally simulating being naked dancing in front of children Was this in front of kids? Yes, yes, and I think that could be pretty okay. So we found a thing we agree on I don't think that should happen at kid friendly drag shows But we agree well, I get that we go but I get to go to a drag show adult or child I'll pull it up. I don't we can't we can't show it on youtube, but I'll pull it up right now I'll find it and pull it up There are lots of things in our society that I think are inappropriate to expose children to that we commonly accept are, you know Child beauty passions, which are pretty common. Let's be fair in red states are definitely one of them I do not like the like kid dance drag thing. I don't like kids being expected to model it in any way shape or form I think that she gets really really gross. Um, you know Hooters has always I agree with you on that I think stage moms take it too far as well I think that's another parental issue where the kids aren't making the choice themselves. So I go ahead Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, yeah, most of most of this stuff I mean if a kid's in these environments, it's almost always going to be at least partially Influenced by what their parent wants. I think it's important to like have conversations about these things But like we like I don't know if you'll cap to it or whatever But we got to be real like a lot of this is about the gay transpanic thing, you know I agree with you. I think there's way too much gay panic or whatever you say I agree. I agree with you 100% But see that's the problem with this it gets it gets, you know, convoluted because there are drag shows that are now being more targeted towards children I'm fine with drag shows and that's what I'm saying on the conservative side now because of I went viral going to this thing All these people send me regular drag queen stuff. Oh, you should go there and expose them. I'm like, dude I don't care. They these are this is a drag show for adults. Let them do it. Let them have fun I would even go. I mean, I'm saying I don't care. I don't have any problem with the drag show I want to make that clear. I have no transphobia no homophobia I literally don't I have gay family members that I love, you know with all my heart So I don't have any problem with that But I do I do agree with you now a lot of the ultra christian conservatives have a huge problem with it And I think that gets overshadowed because listen one group of a political party can make the rest of it look bad It's like I'm not Q and on I'm a conspiracy theorist, but everybody says you're Q and on So if you say you're conservative, everybody thinks you're part of like the christian far right I'm not and I do think there is some gay panic in the christian far right For sure, but I I I would tell you just as a person that's on that side that lynsters outside That's actually a lot less than you think and it gets more attention than it should because we have massive problems here in america With inflation gas prices the border I mean, there's a litany of issues that america is facing and this gets all of our attention And I actually personally feel a little guilty because the biggest problem in america. I mean drag shows kids going to drag show It's not a good thing. That's probably not the worst problem. That's a parental problem. We need to overall I'm glad we agree. It's not the worst problem. I mean at the end of the day here It doesn't really matter what you say because the only harm to children You've been able to define is something which is specific to drag shows which you claim is the confusion They would feel if they don't realize a person they're attracted to is in drag, but then they do But it can be more than that. That's like but that's a very specific thing. You couldn't apply that No, I can't I can't because this is this a kid can become sexualized earlier and then that might Just I don't think I don't think a kid I don't think it can be sexualized if they see like someone dancing flirty like I saw middle school when I was in middle school There was like the the cheerleaders or whatever and their dances were kind of you know, they'd sashay their hips or whatever But I feel like like I don't I don't know if that harmed anyone. I think they were just dancing a lot of dancing just involves Moving your hips around like dancing I would argue that people of your same age like in middle school and you're in middle school That's okay But when you're in middle school and you're seeing adults these drag queens aren't Oftentimes middle schoolers.  That's why this is just cut and dry not it's not wait sexual relationship is not Being in approximate space while one person does a dance that would have been acceptable in a pg movie in the 80s I don't I don't buy That's like a sexual relationship Not only do you have adult cheerleaders at sports games who thousands of people can watch from pretty close up And they're often dressed far more skimpy than you would see unlike a drag queen But also those cheerleaders in middle school would have had to have been trained by an adult former cheerleader Who would have had to have been doing those dances in front of The kids in order to teach them to do those dances in front of an audience of children and adults Like yeah, but it's not it's not a sexual manager You're trying to say a cheerleading routine is the same as a drag show and that's provably false. Wait You're right. I've seen cheerleading routines way more risqué than like parts of drag shows that I've been to that is 100% And they wear less clothing drag shows usually they're wearing like, you know, 15 pounds of Clothing because it's part of their ostentatious wardrobe But the cheerleaders are wearing lady Gaga can wear 15 pounds of clothing and still show her sex and still show her Breast and vagina can still be accentuated in a manner. It doesn't matter how much clothes they have on a lot of times The extra clothes actually accentuate the sexual organs or the you know, the parts that a kid could Accidentally be attracted to so just because they're wearing a lot of stuff doesn't mean that their genitals Are not able to be seen doesn't mean but is not able to be seen It doesn't mean their cleavage is not able to be seen just because they have big shoulder pads I think I think it's okay the sexual part. I think it's okay to dance while having cleavage around children I I I guess I feel like we'd have to rewrite the fundamentals of society we'd have to like Segment everyone the way they like the way they segment like men and women and like orthodox churches to the children the adults like Are we worried about this really like what about all the Super Bowl halftime shows that we look at like is all of this Grooming is all this sexual confusion is everything like all All like not Street level Are you asking me this Hollywood sexualized stuff and groomed children? Yes, I would Don't don't equivocate. We know Hollywood people have a let's say a rough history But talking about like halftime shows or like 80s TV series That halftime shows that are put on by agents and managers and choreographers that are Hollywood Yes, I would say the kids who watch that are being molested because they're seeing like Probably you could argue maybe slightly molested like You can't argue that. Well, you can't argue whatever you want. It's a free country. But yeah, I know that's insane We'll just look at janin jackson when when just in terms of like exposure boobs that people went crazy about that because they didn't want Children seeing a woman Breast with a pacy you wouldn't let a little kid go to a strip club because they have strip clubs where they have to have Paisies and a thong on well, you wouldn't let a kid see that So why would you want to see that at the halftime show?  I'm curious I saw a boob now they want to see more boobs So now they're going to be figure out ways to find something before you're exposed to sex You don't really know about it You don't even so once you get exposed to it Then you want to find more information about it? And then you have friends and then you just more you know how you have a more sexualized Mind so far so far. That can be almost poisonous so far Nothing you've described is abnormal that is literally biologically how we're wired everything that you just described is literally how we were functioned Like designed to function.  Like maybe maybe maybe you're wait. Hold on. Do you think that you're like?  That's a pretty intimate gesture right there No, no, wait, wait, how I don't think kissing your wife in public is the same as showing Your cleavage in a sexual manner where you're trying to be Overtly sexual. I think it's a lot different than a kid Wait with a like a deep kiss you can absolutely be making an effort to be overtly sexual and a plenty of people Then I agree with you.   I've never let me explain Okay, if you deep kissing is at least three or four stages behind Sex in public. All right. I don't I just I don't know How like it's like any cleavage any like shaking your hips like all this now any halftime show kids can't watch eurovision Well, that's europeans. Thank god. They don't can't watch dancing with the stars like any or Actually, I'm struggling to think of a single dance competition now that you wouldn't consider to be a form of molestation Do you do you think you might be inventing harm where it doesn't exist? There's no psychological First of all, dancing with the stars is not the same as a drag show It's not the same because you're watching that first of all and seeing it on television is not good But we're talking about drag shows seeing it in person Simulating sex tipping in and that's the point of the debate and that's why it's not okay for kids to be there The point of it though and you also said that maybe like a form of molestations to see it over tv You said buskers is like, oh, it's the same as tipping a busker some band playing outside on the promenade It's not the same you're tipping them in a manner that's simulating being at a strip club So it's not the same you're not always tipping but if you are I don't think there's anything wrong with tipping You're saying the problem is the sexual behavior But what you define as sexual behavior would seem to encompass like 40 percent of all media ever produced by humanity So no and dancing with the dancing with the stars by the way Dancing with the stars gets very risque. Okay.  Just put it this way. Put it this way. Yeah, you've watched ruPaul's drag race, correct Uh, I actually know I have I've seen screenshots.    I mean, I I like reality tv So I've seen it I'm just telling you there is more of a sexual connotation and a drag show than dancing with the stars ABC has a thing called standards and practices They have to be very careful with what they expose children to and they have a lot They're a lot less alienant than the ruPaul's drag race, which is on cable. That's just I'm pretty sure I've seen some dancing with the stars couples that have danced and they're basically We're not arguing about dancing with the stars The I know I know you're trying to obfuscate what's really happening the opposite The problem is like we know that and you admitted this but let's just admit you admitted that there are some drag shows That kids should not go to correct. There are lots of things that I think could Of course, what I'm saying is I think fit in that Well, let's just come to it. Listen, I like to debate and I like to do in a friendly manner I think you're doing it in a friendly manner. I don't want to be you know rude What I'm saying is we should come to some sort of agreement that you do agree that some drag shows are too sexual for children Is that yeah, but I yes, but to be clear I would feel that way about almost any type of media like any medium I would think that there are some things in there that I think are unacceptable or unacceptable kids Yeah, well, I'm just trying to trying to you know coalesce this this argument So yeah, but this is the issue you frame it like this isn't like a targeted thing or whatever But the problem is that as far as I can tell when you get past all the external fluff Your definition of sexual content here that's inappropriate for children would extend to A significant portion of popular media, but the drag show is not necessarily now what gets fixated on No, well, yeah, that's my point like cleavage and shaking your butt How do you like I'm pretty sure almost all modern dance anything's are going to involve some kind of butt shaking Your hips and legs are some of the most powerful muscles in your body gyrate in your hips is how you position yourself From like a lot of dance Okay, let's just let's just say this going to I'm going to say it's just it's both not good But do you think going to a strip club has more of an effect on your psyche than seeing a movie with a strip club scene in it Do you think that one is more of affects you differently like as a kid?  I think that's inappropriate for kids But like the guys there can be some some grody fucking weirdos that that I think would be the main issue for me um More so on that, but yeah, I'm just saying I think it's the effect of seeing it has has a In person live and in person like going to a drag show It has a bigger effect than just seeing it in the media. So that's why I don't but you're talking about a strip club again But drag shows aren't strip clubs But they they simulate a strip club with the tipping in the manner But I've been the ones they do I'm telling you vosh I've been to drag shows and we can argue semantics. I know well not every drag shows the same There's drag comedy shows. I agree that not all drag shows are exactly the same Okay, overwhelmingly they tip at shows. That's why they go there. What if we what if we isolate that that's that's a common That's a common thing at I would say 90 of drag shows So let me let me isolate the variables here What if the drag show is these drag queens up there on stage? Telling jokes to a crowd and there are kids there and the kids can tip by going up and putting money In a little like black box that's on the side of the stage Which is what tends to happen with drag shows because again, you don't put dollar bills in the funk strings Do you think you think do you think a drag comedy show that comedy would be appropriate for children? Or do you think the comedy would tend to be more adult? Well, if this is a kids accessible drag show, I would assume this comedy would be accessible So you think the drag queens are back. Oh, these is graham crackers. What do you guys think about these graham crackers?  We're isolating variables. We can't be like I'm like, okay, so this is the thing and you're like Well, what if it's another thing like it's a it's a comedy show the drag queens are wearing They're like fully dressed. They're just dressed in their, you know, peacocking outfits or whatever Um, and the kids if they want can go up and put money in this little black box Do you think that's like what the peacocking though is and we you know that term is used for somebody that's seeking attention Correct. They're absolute drag queens are absolutely seeking attention. Have you seen how they dress? Oh, of course. So that's my point is the way they dress is in order to seek attention to their sexual organs for young kids No, whoa. Whoa. Whoa, you were doing fine. No no no seek attention Yes To their organs for young kids. No. No. No. I don't think they showcase their way off because they wanted to feminize No, no, I'm not because these are men that want to feminize their bodies So they look like women.  So they look like what people think of as a woman. Yeah. I agree. I agree.  Do you think having breasts is sexualizing nearby children? I think showing the breasts, not having them, not having them, showcasing it is, yes. I said fully dressed. These drag queens, you can look up drag queen stories. When you say fully dressed, does that mean they're nipples covered because they still show cleavage? No, like they're dressed. Do you think they're in a Hillary Clinton business suit, Vos? Have you ever seen a drag queen in a Hillary Clinton business suit? Yes. I have seen drag queens in pants suits. It's not that uncommon. That's not very common. No, it is. Yes. I promise you, I don't want to argue that, but that's not the common outfit of drag queens.  These people are like in a dress, like they're just, they're dressed. There's not, they're not like wearing pasties with like holes cut out of their dresses or whatever. They're just, they're dressed. So do you think in that environment, this would be like harmful to children? Yes, because it's a sexual confusion because they might not know that that person's a biological male. This is what I mean.  That's not true. I think it's totally okay for men to dress as women. Just not in front of children. You shouldn't explain to me how that sounds like. Because they don't have the ability to know what's going on. They're not choosing to go there on their own accord. They're not getting in their cars and driving there. So they're getting taken there, not by choice. And if they're choosing that, then they're very confused and they're being exposed to something that is a very inorganic, very synthetic, that is not natural and that could harm them potentially in the future. So a couple of things. Young people don't choose to do anything. Like if you're eight, your parents pretty much decide where you're going to. I don't know why that's made to be unique here, obviously. Like I never chose to go to the dentist or chose to go to the grocery store. Like, yeah, they're just like a kid doesn't choose to get molested. It's the same. It's the same thing. What? Stop. I don't know why your mind is on that. We're nowhere near that. We're miles away from that. I think we're very close to molestation. So that's because you think it's molestation for a kid to see a guy in a dress, which is insane and in a sexual manner. Yeah, I think without them, we didn't say sexual matter. We only said dressed up as a drag show. Vash, you're trying to argue that. OK, wait, hold on.  If you agree that that drag shows have a sexual manner. If you watch RuPaul's Drag Race, it's a lot about sexuality and sex. Well, RuPaul's Drag Race is a TV show. You can't bring kids to it, as I understand it. I'm talking about a non-sexualized drag queen. You can literally look up drag queen. I just did. And most of the people I'm looking at right now are dressed in ostentatious, but not at all sexual outfits. In fact, I would say the minority that I'm looking at.  Boss, if I Googled right now, can men get pregnant? Google would say yes. So just because you look at Google, I don't trust Google. So is that what you were reaching for for the 20 seconds? I was OK. Look. No, I'm just telling you're talking about Google, but Google's not the end all be all. If you Google and men get pregnant, Google says yes. So I had to go figure at trends or drag queens who are not dressed sexually. So if we had one of those. Around children, you think that would be like molesting them because the kid might get confused or something. Yes. Can you just for my small brain, can you explain to me where the harm is coming from that isn't because you're afraid of birds? Well, first of all, drag queens and birds are totally different. When I was a young kid, I used to get nervous when I would go on big bridges. And my dad, I think dad were driving on a big bridge. That's a little different, you know, because you need to get used to going on bridges. You need to get used to going around birds. There are some things your parents need to expose you to that you might be scared of. Now, being made to be exposed to transgender drag queens is not a thing that I think is the same as a bird or something. I'm explaining the harm in a way that because you're over sexualizing children.  You lost it already. We're not sexualizing the children. They're around fully dressed, non sexually dressed people who are in drag. The children are not getting sexualized in any way here. I'm talking about a drag show is what I'm talking about. I am also talking about a drag show. Yeah, I think I think that's why it's bad for the kids to go to the drag show because their brains are not able. They're not, you know, they're not done not able to young. Not able to what? To comprehend what's fully going on. It's not able to comprehend a man who is dressed as a woman. Yeah, you know, they might be attracted to it. They might not know. They might money cartoons a hundred years ago or something. They might not know what they're looking at.  I think it can have an effect. You're saying it has. You're saying it has to know what they're looking at. But do you really believe that? But I'm saying, do you believe if a young kid sees, let's say it, let's say you like to isolate, they do see the drag queen that's in a song, dancing around because you didn't talk about non sexual outfits fully dressed. I don't know why you had a drag show. Because I'm not running for that because oftentimes these drag events are sexualized. That's just common sense. You're saying that this is still a problem when they're non sexualized. So I don't see why you keep running back to the thongs or whatever. Like if the issue is what do you mean when they're non sexual? Well, dude, I don't think kids should be exposed to drag queens at too young of an age. That's my problem here when they're old enough. Yes, they can go all they want harm in a way that the sexual implantation and sexual confusion that can have on them later on in life. What does that mean? That means that they might not realize what they're looking at. They might think it is a woman and then they find out that it's a man and it oftentimes can create sexual confusion. That's a fact. That's any evidence. It's a fact. Is there any evidence of this?  Wait, no, no, no, no. Don't run. Is there any? I'm not running. I'm saying, do you think, do you think? Yes. OK, did you ever watch the Jerry Springer show? Harm being done. I'm saying one of the biggest things on the Jerry Springer show, even though the show is probably fake. Yeah. But let me tell you something realizing their drag. Yes, there is a lot of harm because people didn't realize that they just had a gay relationship that they weren't consenting by looking at them by being attracted to them. Yes, you're being attracted to a man and you don't know it.  Not even drag. If you were a feminine or androgynous looking guy that you would also probably have people look at you and think you're attractive, not realizing that you're a guy. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying you're an androgynous person with long hair. I'm talking about a drag show where people are simulating being the opposite sex. And they are sexually confusing children that might not understand what they're fully looking at. Have you ever seen a guy who looks like a girl kind of? Like a hot guy who has long hair? No, I never thought a guy is hot, personally. No. Well, I mean, then why are the drag queens so confusing to you? They're not confusing to me. They're confusing to young children. So as a young child, did you ever see a guy think it was a girl? No, I never went to drag shows as a child. No, like day to day life, Alex, like in outside the first time I was ever exposed to drag. I remember it was a movie too long. No, I could go out like and I was old enough to understand what that was. My mom explained it to me. Being outside and you see someone who you find attractive and then you realize that they're a guy, even though you think you're attracted to women. But I think that could have some sort of effect on a person. Yes. So you agree then that your argument would apply to feminine men and androgynous people like David Bowie types? No, not even close. I'm talking about not androgynous people.  You're only talking about being attracted, being a kid and being attracted to someone you think is a woman. And then it turns out that they're a guy that doesn't have to involve drag. Your argument, if applied consistently, would be an argument that any gender nonconforming androgynous or feminine guy outside would be molesting the children around them because those children would have the possibility of finding them attractive as a perceived woman and then realizing maybe as they turn around. That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. No, Alex, I'm helping you understand what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. I am telling you what I'm saying. I'm reading it back to you. That's not what I'm saying. Bush, that's not what I'm saying. A kid just seeing an androgynous person is not the same as going to a drag show and simulating sex and tipping them like a strip cart. Simulating sex? You keep adding stuff. You keep adding stuff. You're saying. At a drag show, they dance and they do it in a sexual manner. That's common sense. We can't even. What I'm saying is I'm talking about drag shows. If they're doing stand-up. I've been to drag shows. Alex, I know what they look like. And I've been to them and I've exposed them. I've seen them make sexualized children. With the explicit intention of finding clips that you can put online to monetize people's outrage. I've been to them to have fun. I promise you there are lots of different types of drag shows and your argument is an argument against feminine guys androgynous guys. I don't care. It's not gender nonconforming people. I'm talking about drag queens. I'm not talking about androgynous looking people, shims, he-hems, whatever. Can't that confusion happen? Like if you're like a young- Can people get confused? Yes. People can get confused about everything. They can get confused, you know, vice versa with somebody that's transitioned the opposite way, you know, from female to male. That they can be confused. So I'm not saying that sexual confusion doesn't exist. I'm talking about parents dragging their kids to drag shows without their consent when they don't want to go and look at women or men, whatever you want to call it, drag queens, dancing in a sexualized manner. That's where I have an issue with, not just walking down the street or CVS and seeing the androgynous cashier. I don't think that has the same effect. All drag is, is gender nonconformity on a stage with presumably bright colors that tends to be involved. The sexual stuff you're adding is optional. The tipping is optional. The kids being there is optional. The sexual dancing is optional. Drag fundamentally is only gender nonconformity as a presentation. So when you talk about, so the reason I'm trying to isolate the variables here is because your argument that it is sexual confusion inducing and thus tantamount to molestation for a kid to get confused about the sex of the person they're looking at, that can happen anywhere. It's not a drag specific thing. And since drag is nothing more than flamboyant, gender nonconformity, you're essentially just attacking the most ostentatious example of what you think the real issue is, which is no any drag shows. The real issues is drag shows, not seeing androgynous people at the grocery store. You said it was molestation to go to a drag show where they did not choose and to see people that sashay on a dance floor and for them to tip them like as if they were at a strip club. That's where I have a problem. I don't care if they're at the grocery store and they see an androgynous person. That does not have the same effect. Wait, why not? So let's say, so hold on. Because it's not done in a sexual manner. It's not done without their choice. Let me put you in my shoes, okay? If we could, okay? There I am, a strapping young lad of 10.  And I'm going to the grocery store with them, of course. I'm not going there on my own. And I see a person there. I see them from behind, all right? They're wearing yoga pants and a crop top t-shirt that exposes maybe four or five inches of their stomach. And from behind, they're very hot. They have long straight black hair, you know, very attractive. Now I'm a strapping young kid of 10, all right?  But later, it turns out, as this person turns around in a situation that I did not consent to be in, I did not want to go grocery shopping. This is a guy. They were just a guy, just a feminine guy wearing, you know, all this. Now in that moment, I did experience, because I didn't realize I liked men at the time yet, I did experience a kind of, as I realized, like, I was into this person who I thought was- Bam! Vosh, that's my whole entire point. Is that realization that you had was a little confusing. Would you agree that it was a little confusing? So you would agree this isn't about drag. It's about- No, it is about drag. I think it's the drag in the world. No, no, because it's the drag is where they're exposed to it. I'm just saying that is where they're more likely to have that sexual confusion. It's more likely to happen at a drag show that their parents dragged them to that is as a sexual connotation. They're just going to CVS or going to rouse. The logical extension of your argument would apply to- I'm not talking about logical extensions. I'm talking about drag shows. I'm talking about drag shows. I know, we don't want to talk about logic here. We just want to talk about drag shows.  I don't. I don't have time for logic games. I'm trying to talk about- I'm solving Rubik's cubes in my head right now. Yeah, I know you're playing logic games.  I'm cut and dry. I want to be very binary, ones and zeros. Drag shows, not good for kids, because it causes that same thing that in your brain happened. Oh, this is a little confusion. And now you might grow up- Oh, no, by the way, I wasn't part of that feeling. And you might be bisexual. Well, we know, by the way- Do you think that that could have had a- Voss, do you think that could have had an effect on you later becoming bisexual?  There was no force in the world that could have changed that. I would have had to have died before I turned 15 for that to not be the case. And I cheerfully do that.  I don't think that's bad or even a lot of people in the right. Oh, that's so immoral. I'm a libertarian. You can do whatever you want. I just don't think it should happen to children. Do you understand my argument? I think it's the young- I wasn't hurt. Like just seeing that, what happened to me in that grocery store is the thing I think that's happened probably to a lot of young people where you see a person who you think is a tractor from a certain angle and then you see them at a different angle and they're not the sex or gender or whatever that you thought they were. But you just said to me, oh, that's a bit of gender confusion. Do you think that might have been what turned you by? But the conservative rhetoric right now is about preventing any pervasive social influences that turn people gay or trans.  I've not said that, and that's not how I feel, Vos. You asked me if it contributed to turning me by. Well, I'm trying to ask you that. Yeah, I don't think that that's the case for every single person, but I'm saying I'm trying to ask you as an example that you're using. Do you think things like that can make people more likely to be by? I think that it's possible, yes. Do you think children should be put in situations where they're exposed to people that may make them more likely to be by?   They can be exposed to gay, straight people. I don't think that that's bad. I think it's the sexualization of the drag show that is bad. You see what I'm saying? But you said the confusion that I experienced when that guy in the grocery store turned around, that was like evidence to your point. I said it's possible that could have an effect. I mean, would you agree that that's possible? So if you say it's not possible that it has an effect, then you are saying that exposure to gender non-conforming people can elicit homosexuality. I said that's a possibility.  Okay, so then is that not an argument that conservatives would use in order to remove any exposure to gay or trans people or gender non-conforming people because it's corrupting the children? That's what they did in Florida.   No, it says preventing people talking about sexuality, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. And I'm sure that little Mrs. Pennycock is going to refrain from calling her husband in the middle of the process. If you want to talk about the don't take gay bill real quick, this is what's different. When you and I were in school, our teachers didn't have a Facebook profile. They didn't have an Instagram. I didn't know my teachers' personal life. So it's now in this day and age, a kid knows everything about their teacher's personal life.  If they look them up. Yeah, which oftentimes kids do because the kids are extremely online. But kids can look up anything. They can look up kids.  We didn't have that ability. So that's different. So that's why they're trying to protect kids from the over sexualization of their personal lives. Their Facebook profile pictures of their teachers. Couldn't they just because they don't need to be involved in their personal sexual matters? That's why they're not involved. Wait, this is what I argue. Wait, what does this have to do with looking stuff up off? This is why. So let me make this.  So we shouldn't define people by what they do in their bedroom. We should define people by what they do, how they conduct themselves in the classroom. So we shouldn't talk with our students or young kids about their sex lives. That's normal. That's not crazy.   I knew a fair amount about the partners of my teachers when I was young because it just comes up in kindergarten class.  Like the teacher will be like, how was everyone's weekend? And the kid will be like, I'm good. And then the teacher will be like, oh, I had a good time. Why did you do, you know? And it's like, oh, my husband.  That's not what's going to happen, boss. Well, hold on. It's just so ingenuine when you say that. So is it okay?  No, that's happening every minute. So, uh. Oh, there's cops running them with guns because the teacher said they had a relationship with their husband. No, you're right. I'm sorry. The idea of cops running into a school with guns is ludicrous given reason. And I agree. Oh, I think you've already, they wouldn't run in. I mean, I agree with that. It is ludicrous. They should have done more. But I'm just saying, listen, I don't even dislike you. I'm not even trying to say, and I'm not even anti-gay or anti-trans. Oh, I love these girls. But what I'm saying is, I just, my point being, dude, at the end of the day is I don't like the sexualization of children at sexualized events that they're not choosing to go to. Now, if they see an androgynous person at the grocery store, that's going to happen. That's life.  I think there's a big population of our community that is LGBTQI plus plus whatever you want to call it. I don't think that that's a thing we have to protect kids and they can't ever see a gay person. That's not what I feel. I'm talking about specific drag events that tend to be more sexual. And so I agree. A teacher talking about being married to a woman, I don't even think that's a big deal. I'm talking about sex. I'm talking about sexualized things. I think we should protect kids from that until they're old enough to make that decision. And that can be at the age of consent in whatever states are, whether it's 17, 16, 18. I don't know every state has different rules. You might know better than me. It's OK. What I'm talking about is, no, I don't think sexualized children, even a non-sexualized drag show, kids should be. It always has a sexual. Because it's a sexual confusion thing. It's a weird. You can't say it's about the sexualization. And I'm like, what about a non-sexualized drag show? And you're like, well, no, it's actually about the gender. Because it's always based in sex. Because sex and gender are very similar. And so it's people that are doing non-gender conforming. So that's why it causes confusion. Because it's people playing make-believe. Now, people have been doing this forever.  Kids love the girls in costumes. I agree. I agree. And that's why that's why when you do this at a young age, when their minds are super sensitive, it can have effects later on in life. So you don't have like mascots at theme parks or like people dressed up as other characters? Mascots are different than a drag queen. Should we not do Halloween? No, because I'm saying non-sexualized drag queen. And you're like, well, the confusion.  That's a very simple one. What's a drag queen? Oh, well, that's a guy in a dress. Oh, okay. Cool. He's got a lot of makeup on. What's a mascot? Is there another person in there? Like kids get freaked out by that. No, kids get freaked out by mascots. That's not the case. People can't stay up late at night. Five nights at Freddy's is literally a hit. Yeah, I agree. People are scared of clients. You said people are scared of birds. That's different than going to a place they didn't choose to go to and simulating like they're at a strip club. It's not no, it's different. You said, even if it's a non-sexualized drag, that it's still harmful. So all the strip club stuff doesn't matter. Yes, because it's an adult theme. It's too adult for children. What is adult about a guy dressing up as a girl? And a bar? I don't think you have to be 21. And oftentimes, these are at bars. So I don't think you should have children in bars. They don't let the kids drink. It's just a building. When I was 18 and I was in college, I wanted to go into bars so bad. They wouldn't let me, but they're going to let in seven and eight year olds. No, not okay. So that's the issue, is the idea of a mixed use? No, I'm just saying, these are adult venues where little kids should not be at. Whether it's drag queen comedy hour or drag queen thong hour, it's not okay for little children to be exposed to that at a young age when they didn't choose. So again, non-sexual drag show in a non-typically 21 or older venue, let's say an exhibition hall or like a hotel exhibition conference room that was rented out, which is normally available to people of all ages if you can pay the fee. Is that harmful to kids? Yeah, even if the venue is not just necessarily an adult venue, but the themes are adult. If it has an adult theme for young children, that is harmful. What theme?  I don't know whatever word style that you want to use in all your logic games. I'm talking about men dressing in a sexualized manner to insinuate to be sexualized women. Kids should not be exposed to that. Whether it's at a church, whether it's at a bingo hall, whether it's at a hotel, I don't believe that drag can ever be considered non-sexual. Because you think it's sexual. When it's main focus, it's about changing your sex from male to female or female to male. So it's impossible for a drag show inherently to not be non-sexual. Do you see what I'm saying? It is a costume, like in Halloween.  It's different than a Jack-O-Lantern costume. It's different than a Jason costume. You realize that a common Halloween costume.  You realize a common Halloween costume is literally just dressing up as the other sex, right? Like in middle school, three of the football guys from my... Was it football? I think it was football, from my guys. They all dressed up in blonde wigs and had fake tits or whatever. And they were like, I guess they would have been 12 or 13 or something.  Is that molestation? Or I didn't think there was anything weird about it at the time. In terms of how sexual... I think that is a little weird. I think it's weird for 12-year-olds to probably dress and drag, yes. So in terms of how weird it was, it was up there with a person putting two basketballs in their shirt and pretending they are big tits, which I think I saw kids doing when they were eight. If that's sexual confusion, molestation, gender nonconformity or whatever, then again, this applies to almost everything. Like this is everywhere, all over the place. Well, it's very nuanced, Vosch. I don't think you understand nuance very well is that certain situations can be different where you can be more sexual and less sexual.  I don't think that's inherently as sexual as a young kid putting on a dress and sashaying all day around class. I think they're a little different. Well, okay, what if the kids just sashaying without the dress? Which, again... They're allowed to sashay, that's fine. So wait, how does the addition of the dress make it more sexual? That's not even changing their perceived sex.   That's why it's more sexual. But it's that simple. That kind of dry. So I keep telling you that your argument is just fundamentally one against gender non-conformity. And you keep saying, yes, it is. But then when I point out that that's what your argument is, you're like, no, it's not. You're saying, so here's the line here. I'm talking, you keep on changing the subject. So no, no, no, let me just get the point here. But I'm saying when young kids wear dresses, that's not necessarily great either. I think that that can cause sexual confusion for them as well. Any kind of gender non-conforming behavior in public, which would include trans people, because trans people literally change their sex, not for costume, would be a tantamount to projecting an AOE grooming field on their environment. In such an environment, in a world where people's mainline thought towards child groomers is, when do I get to shoot them? This logic is essentially just a genocidal call to action against trans or gender non-conforming people. It's the argument that the mere act of gender non-conformity through act or presentation is sufficient to elicit confusion to children around you, which is a kind of molestation. It's like you're accusing us of being like anime villains. Like we're projecting. That's not what I'm doing at all. And just think about how many words you had to say there to make no point with all the other aspects. Well, I know, but you're just wasting them. We don't need to. Listen, I like the Kiss method.  I understand you want to play logic games. You want to try to compare apples and oranges. I'm talking about kids at drag shows being sexualized in events that they did not choose to go to that have adult themes. I think that is not okay. What you keep doing is running back to all the pre-loaded conceptions that you've said. And then I stripped them part one by one to find the issue. You haven't stripped them apart. You said that the issue isn't with the drag show. No, no, false, Fosh. Fosh, that's why you're being ingenuine. That's why you're being disingenuous. No, no, no, no. Fosh, you said that there are drag shows that are too sexual for children. Do you agree? Of course. There are plenty of things that are sexual for children. You and I would argue that I think most shows are too sexual for kids.  So in a way, we kind of agree that kids shouldn't go to certain. I think kids shouldn't go to all drag shows. You think kids shouldn't just go to some drag shows if I believe if we can deduce all of this. Well, this would be like you arguing that children shouldn't be allowed to view any kind of dancing in public. I remember going to the Renaissance story. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Fosh, let's just get to the lecture at hand. There are lots. Please, please, because we have to wrap this up. Listen, Fosh, I can't do this dance all day.  Fosh, I don't want to just. Fosh, listen, let's just quit playing games. I don't have time for all the cutesy. I'm done with the games. Just set my deck of cards down. We're done. We're done with the games. Let's just get to where we can agree to disagree and then we can move on to the open questions because I'm sure there's a lot of them.  Not all, but some.  So I think that point we can just agree to disagree. Now, we can compare non-binary people at the grocery store. We can talk about students all day long. The debate is about drag shows and I think we've made it very clear where you stand on it and where I stand on it. So, I mean, I think we should move on personally. We're just butting heads at this point comparing apples and oranges. And honestly, I'm a busy man. I don't have time to just do that. Of course. What 1% are you okay with? The 1%? Maybe the drag queen story times, I guess, sometimes when they're dressed in pantsuits. How about that? Would that not elicit the same sexual confusion? It could, it could, but it's possible. I'm just talking about that because I believe in percentages. I'm sure there's somewhere out there that's not the worst thing possible. I think overwhelmingly they are bad and not meant to be for children. Now, you would disagree. You would say that there's just a small percentage that are bad for children. So at the end of the day, we both agree that there's some drag shows that kids are not okay to go to. So I can live with that. If you can live with that, I think we move on. Well, there's a pretty wide gap between our relative percentages. But still, we still at least agree. We still at least similarly agree that there are some drag shows that kids shouldn't go to and I'm okay with that. This is like a person who's like, believes the Holocaust was just saying that we similarly agree because I think one Jewish guy who murdered his wife should be put on hospital. No, no, the Holocaust is bad. You believe one person? I don't bring up the Holocaust. Seriously, we're on YouTube. No, just a funny little comparison. It's not funny. The Holocaust is not funny. The Holocaust is not funny. Well, I didn't say the Holocaust was funny. I said that the comparison between the situation here and that... Comparing anything to the Holocaust is not wacky and funny to me. Oh, okay. I didn't know we were sensitive here. Fine. Anyway. I'm not sensitive. I just don't think that's wacky and funny. I apologize. Oh, I think that a comedian's job is to offend in a way that challenges. I agree. Oh, my God, I agree. I agree. I love offensive humor. You love rookie? Oh, okay. I thought we disagreed on this for a second. All right. Okay. Anyway, look, gender non-conformity is not the thing that makes drag shows potentially harmful to kids. It just isn't. There are things that can. You know, there are absolutely drag shows that are inappropriate for kids. And I think... Oh, and I think it's important to like be able to identify that. I don't think that this need be like a super... It's just it's not that interesting of a conversation at the end of the day, I think. Because I feel like it's just a proxy issue. Like a lot of people who have these positions on drag queens, just like they have issues with trans people. Well, that's for real. It's a broader thing. Yes, but I don't. I know a lot of people don't. Alex, I would never accuse you of that. I appreciate that. You know. And I think there's people on the right to do. And I agree.  And I think that's...   I don't think so. I don't think that's bad at all. People say, oh, you're homophobic. You're transphobic. I'm not at all. I actually encourage people. I want to lift up people that feel like they're being denigrated by society.  I just don't want kids to have to be exposed to stuff that I consider adult themed until they're an adult. That's it. I don't think kids should smoke cigarettes. I don't think kids should drink alcohol. I think they should wait until they're of age and they consent to sexual connotation type stuff.  That's not necessarily bad. But then you look at these Disney movies, where now they're inserting even in Disney's own head of programming, said we're going to put in polysexual, polyamorous couples. We're going to put in pansexual characters and then her daughter's pansexual. So I do think that is, I think, I just think it's a little, I think it's done, you know, not organically. It's done inorganically.  They're a business. They're doing whatever they think will give them the best market share in the long run. Well, exactly. And this is the problem. I think multinational companies, corporations are actually inherently evil. I think Apple computers, Apple iPhones, when you look at them and their business practices, they have suicide nets. They're Foxconn factories in China because their employees are so overwhelmed. They jump off buildings. And so they put bigger and stronger nets instead of helping them and give them a better life and pay them more money. So I think inherently, I think inherently companies are evil personally. So if they're doing evil stuff to kids, I think that's evil. I completely agree.  I believe that the, you know, the leaders of these companies, the shareholders should be put on tribunal and they should be seized by the workers who work at them. I hope that if that's not too radical for you, you know, obviously, I don't know if having gay people in movies is quite tribunal level. But, you know, there's definitely some wacky stuff, wacky stuff corporations get around to up there. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you that. I think these corporations are doing a little wacky, little weird, peculiar things. Yeah, wacky. Arguably a good point to go into the Q&A. Want to say, folks, if you happen to have a question, if you tag me with at modern day debate in the live chat, that'll help me see your question. Although I've got to tell you, we've got a lot in the list so far. So we're going to start and we're going to go fast. Bezos' anti-bullying agency says, whatever side we're on, kids do not belong in strip clubs with signs that say, quote, it ain't gonna lick itself. That is grooming and exploitative. I think that's for you, Vosh. Yeah, well, I agree. They shouldn't be in strip clubs. That one, what was it? I think it shouldn't lick itself. It was pretty inappropriately positioned for that kid-friendly drag show. Outside of that, though, I saw videos from the event and I didn't see anything inappropriate there. It just looks like that was a holdover from the bar they took the space from. I agree. It probably should have been taken down or covered. But yeah, you know, kids will survive, I imagine. You got it. This one coming in from Taylor H. By the way, want to remind you folks, we are looking for meaningful questions. If you're just insulting either of the guests, we're not looking for that. It doesn't contribute to a meaningful Q&A. This one from Taylor H. says, I am admittedly impressed by Vosh's ability to outpace his opponents. Says, then, though, they say, pushing sex on kids will lead to homeschooling to escape your ideology, Vosh. What are your guys' thoughts on homeschooling in this context? Well, I don't think we're talking about pushing sex on anyone, but there were also threats for a wave of homeschooling following the racial integration back in the 1960s. Believing that stuffed-up white, suburban, fundy parents are going to take their kids out of school because they don't want to have them learn that trans people exist. I mean, this is very much a cell phone, as far as I'm concerned. It basically just means you're getting outpaced and dabbed on by the clock of history turning away from you. It's not an evidence of harm against the kids. You've got it. Any thoughts, Alex? I think homeschooling now has probably been official to a lot of these kids. I might have thought a little different a few years ago, but when you look at Libs of TikTok, you know, not even trying to expose it. A lot of these teachers in this day and age have gone. I think the public school system has become very weird. And when I was a young kid, there's a lot of teachers and coaches that slept with students. So I think that's just something that's happened forever. You know, is it happening more? Maybe. I don't know. But I think that that's just something that, if you want to protect your kid from that happening, I think homeschool is one of the better ways to do that. It is true. Sexual molestation of children by schoolteachers isn't at all uncommon. Outpaced only by the church and the home itself as potential sources of harm to children. Stupid or Energy says, always impressed by Alex. And question for Alex.  You know, I'm a vegetarian, so it's vegan shrimp and vegan steak. Very nice. Plant-based. Bill Gates synthetic meat. Thank you very much for your trollish super chat. Says I'm a beta boy. I appreciate that. Handle says, James, listen, I need you to ask each Alex and Bosch to define drag queen show. It's very serious. I'll go first. I just think a drag queen show is oftentimes either a woman dressing up as a man. I guess that's a drag king. And then I think a drag queen would be a man dressing up as a woman. And I often think that they have, like, Bosch said earlier, a peacocking, you know, aspect to it where they do want to bring attention to themselves, which is fine. I think it's very flamboyant with the makeup. A lot of, you know, talented people, talented makeup artists. And I just think it's a way to, I guess, like Lady Gaga, even though she's not, you know, a drag queen.  You got to thank you very much for your question or super sticker from Hake of the Hake Report. Your old buddy, Bosch, and show Vertica says, for Bosch, you believe that adults can sexually dance towards other people's children in a public setting. Is that okay with you?  I like, I don't know if, is anything beyond swing dancing acceptable? Is there a dance style post Elvis that like, isn't, you're not like automatically grooming every child within a three state radius of you? Well, you brought, well, to be fair, that you brought up Dancing with the Stars, which is ballroom dancing. And I know you oftentimes dip the woman, but you're usually doing like a fast paced waltz.  They do some pretty like salsa sexy, like salsa was literally considered to be like devilish music, wasn't it? Because it was so sexual. Yeah, this, this keeps happening over and over. Well, in Footloose, the Baptist church, they couldn't dance. I think we're, I don't think we're at that.  You know, look, whatever the case is, I don't know what you mean.  And I do think there are totally situations that are inappropriate. It's just not, it's like, it's very confusing to me, I say sarcastically, that every time the right finds something that's like harming kids, it has something to do with gay or trans people. Like they'll find, like somehow, like you've all these real obvious things that are affecting them.   Like they'll take the wrong stances and all those things. But then all of a sudden, they're very, very careful to protect the kids when it comes to like doing things that would suppress the political rights of gender nonconforming people.  So like the leading question, I think Vosh should be able to dance sexually at kids.  I think there are plenty of things adults can do that are inappropriate around children. And I think we should be honest when we talk about them. Well, I have one question though Vosh, because now there are, when you talk about, and Bill Maher said this, he was a liberal, the amount of kids that are transitioned or even that come out as gay or trans LGBTQ has skyrocketed compared to like the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, oftentimes every generation it doubles. So do you think that's just, you think that's only because people are more okay with it? Or do you think it's possible there could be some externality that's causing this increase? I think what we are is a product of our innate desires and our environmental influences reflected back onto us. I think that the fact that for hundreds of years, well, yeah, I say, and of course, I'm talking about compulsory heterosexuality for literally tens of thousands of years, humans have been fucking the same sex as themselves and only in Christendom, well, not only of course, but as a product of Christendom, the repressive Christian nationalist state, persecution against people who do this perfectly natural thing has been lethal for many hundreds of thousands of people throughout history. I think that what we're seeing right now actually is a closer return to normalcy, wherever the greatest like, you know, wherever the pendulum swings, the idea that the natural state of humanity is this insane repressive like denial of the existence of gay and trans people. That ain't it, you know.  You got this one coming in for you, Alex. Secret XX stars says, does Alex believe that the harm of child sexual abuse and grooming in general, primarily stems from kids finding the abuse? They went through arousing. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a big part of it because oftentimes when they're touched, they probably do have a stimulation that's positive.  And I think if they have some sort of positive interaction, I don't, I mean, I think that, yeah, that could be very bad. You got it. And this one coming in from P Barnes, a critic apparently says yesterday it was CRT, today it's drag shows, tomorrow it will be something else. The world will keep moving and conservatives, like Alex, will keep shadow boxing. Confident. Alex, any thoughts? I mean, listen, I think kids are being over sexualized. I think I just made it.  So I personally think there's externalities or stuff that, you know, social situations that are causing this change. I don't think it's necessarily organic. So shadow boxing against that, I don't know. I guess just bringing kind of awareness so we can talk about it in an adult manner in a realistic manner.  I don't think that that doesn't exist. I'm just thinking that it's maybe happening at a rate that seems unnatural to what I think would be natural, I guess, in society in my opinion. You know, coming up from Mr. Monster says, I don't think it's appropriate for children to be around adults who are stripping, yet not all drag shows have stripping. Where do we draw the line at the drag shows? Vosch in particular.  I don't know if there's like a hard line here, because so much of this is contextual. Obviously, like a person wearing the equivalent of a bikini in like a bar, that would be considered a stripper. But if you're at the beach, basically everyone's dressed like that. Like you can go to a bathhouse in Japan, like that's still a thing over there, and literally just like take a shower to clean yourself then bathe around people, that can just happen. I think it's like sex segregated, and that's not considered weird. But there's just so much variance. I feel like what we have to do, I think, is like we have to be understanding of the kind of cultural ambiguity in a lot of contexts. Well, at the same time, like not, listen, okay, you can take this as a W if you want, but I will admit, I do feel like there are a lot of people who are so defensive, given the cultural status right now, that they're not willing to have like any kind of conversation about what a good like child friendly drag show might be. I don't think it's a big social issue. I think this is like a super minute, tiny niche community thing. But I feel like that's the kind of thing that gets worked out with time. Like we just kind of settle on what seems like an acceptable answer. And I guess, I don't necessarily agree with that, but when you say you go to the beach, you do see women in a thong, but you wouldn't take a kid to a topless beach. You wouldn't take a kid to a nude beach. But I think there is a line when you come to places like a beach or a drag show, you wouldn't take them to a super sexualized drag show. I think that would be bad. So I do think there is a line where it crosses. But I think in Europe, they actually do. I think nude beaches are considered like a pretty, at least in Spain, I think they're considered like a pretty non-sexual thing. I think it would depend. I don't think children are going to go to nude beaches. Gosh. Well, it's, I mean, like, you know, I've been to a nude beach. I didn't see any kids. Well, that's great. I'm glad you had a good time.  Yeah, but the tribal thing is a little different. Like seeing a native African person when it's part of, that's a little different seeing a national geographic than like a woman walking down the street and rousing naked. But okay, sorry. Well, I agree that it's different. It's contextually different. But like that context, it doesn't mean that there isn't meaning to the context. I think what we should really be chasing here is harm. Can we identify and measure psychological harm by certain variables and like we should build our understanding of what's acceptable around that. And I mean, there are plenty of psychiatrists who study stuff like that, you know. It's one of the reasons why in the past 20 or so years it's been more commonly accepted that spanking is a form of child abuse because psychiatrists have gotten way louder about how it does like basically nothing beneficial, you know. Anyway, I'm just saying like people, people do talk about this stuff. It's not like a silent subject or anything. This one coming in from Joey Rogers says, where does the odd accent that Alex has come from? Alex, do you have an accent? I'm in from Texas. I talk kind of nasally. I don't know. I'm from Dallas, but yeah, I mean, I'm from Texas, but like I'm a city slicker. So maybe that's why. I don't know. I guess I have a weird voice. Tremendous voice. Secular pagan mum says, not all drag shows are men or in bars. Many are outdoors and family friendly. Drag kings exist too. Drag kings and queens have so much imagination. Peace sign, heart, unicorn. I assume that was a problem. Any thoughts? Sorry, we'll go to the next one. Covey Mom says, is a drag show more quote unquote sexualized than a day at the beach? I've seen men with boobs. That isn't confusing for a child. Question mark? Question mark. I mean, it can be if you see some 300 pound guy with a big old set of honkers. Yeah, I mean, that's not necessarily great. But I think it's a little different. It's a little different going to the beach and going to a strip club because the beach is a fun place. You know, kids should go to the beach in my opinion. I don't think kids should go to drag clubs. You can see how given a different set of cultural context, it might be the other way, right? Like if we lived in a landlocked country or whatever with a strong tradition of like ceremonial dance, maybe stuff like drag would be treated super normal.  Like, isn't that weird?  Like, so much of this just comes down to the bird thing. So much of it is like, what do we personally have a bias towards or against? Well, I disagree with you on the bird. I don't think that that's very good analogy.  People are like, oh, well, they can go to Hooters. I don't think you should bring young kids to Hooters either. Speaking of sexualized, Stephen Steen says, I can't believe Alex, when he says he hasn't had sex, when he's so unusually sexy. You got a fan out there, Alex. Next up. Well, it can take my virginity. This one from Mr. Monster says, I feel it's causing gender confusion to the 15-year-olds in my audience. Let's see. I apologize. DACA shindancy says, Vosch, what are your thoughts on Queen Latisha being next to a naked man and Desmond is amazing pretending to do ketamine? Is this not grooming kids? Did I get it wrong? Is that Queen Lactatia? Or is this, did they mean Latisha? I mean Latifah. I can't remember the name of the star from like 15 years ago. I'm going to keep it fully 100 with you. I have no goddamn idea what that person is referring to. You know Desmond is amazing, though.   I hope he's like, oh, I like to do ketamine.   And there's in all cultures, there's drugs. I'm saying college culture, there's drugs. You wouldn't want young kids at a college bar. So I'm just saying it's kind of weird when you see that Desmond is an amazing kid and he's around these super adult themed stuff. It's not good when he's making jokes about using drugs. I'm trying to frantically Google to get context and I'm only getting more confused, so I can't. Google Desmond is amazing, a trans kid. He's a kid that's been on all the major outlets, NBC, he's danced at the major. Oh, is this that kid? Oh yeah, I don't like this. I don't like kids doing any kind of modeling stuff, drag or other. The drag thing isn't what issues here, or is what is at issue with me here. It's just any kind of modeling for a young person. I think young people should be able to like, if young people are going to worry about their appearances, I think it should be because they're like 12 and they just developed a crush on their eighth grade classmate, not because they have adults who are like getting them ready for their big like TV appearance. They have to cover up all the acne or whatever. Let kids live, you know? Yeah, I don't know. This one coming in from Fernandez. T, thanks for your comment. It says, Vosh equals word games. Stein equals logic. Wait, I had the Rubik's cubes. That was that was my thing. I made that joke. I've never saw the Rubik's cube in my life. Jupiter Darman says, Alex, could it be confusing or abusive to kids to see a grown man posting videos of himself in women's swimsuits? Same thing. I think they're referring to your, your lewd and lascivious videos of you and a woman's swimsuit. Oh, yeah, I think that is I am in the swimsuit.  So yeah, I mean a little bit. It could be a little lewd. I'm not going to lie about that. That's Alex spelled A L E X X X. And Brandon answers confusing people. Yeah, I am. I'm a gender confuser.   I feel like I'm getting owned in the free marketplace of ideas because every single conservative has worn women's clothing more often than I have. I feel like I need to. Exactly. You know, I'm gender fluid. So that shows you so I win this debate because I know I'm more likely attached to this. I'm more likely to do drag. Definitely repressor. Yeah, 100%. So it's out there. This one from Brandon Hansen, another fan, Alex. They say, Alex, big fan. Love what you do and keep it going. Man. This one. Well, keep it going. One man. One man. But yes, I'll take it. I appreciate it. Thank you for the support. This one coming in from Justin R. What is this Sam Hyde? They say, Justin's R says, Varsh, how much money to fight Sam Hyde? I don't know who Sam Hyde is. He's an internet comedian. He's a legend. I'd have to spend that money pretty quickly. He's a crypto now. What? Wait, is he even crypto now? See, would it? I think I'd have to spend that money.   No, that's huge. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Listen, when he initiates the race for, okay, I'm going to make sure there's a, yeah, I'm going to make sure I'm on a few blocks down the road from that guy. He he boxes for fun like constantly, doesn't he? Yeah, there's no shot. He wants to box everybody wings of redemption. He wants to box a boogie. He wants to box all the internet meme lords. Yeah. Wow. He should get a sign. He's behind. But there he is. He wants to box the sign. It's who he wants to box the most. I mean, he's- Did he mention Vosh? No, I don't know. They're probably just trolling. This one, okay, I found out who Queen Lactatia is. It's not Queen Latifah. It's a drag queen nine-year-old. And this is a nine-year-old drag queen. Teen Vogue says, inspires us to live colorfully. And this is that Super Chat earlier said, Vosh, thoughts on Queen Lactatia being next to a naked man. So apparently my, there I think they're saying, are you going to draw the line there, Vosh? I mean, I've already drawn the line at like young models.  I'm not googling child drag king naked. I'm not, I'm not googling any set of, I'm not, I'm not piecing this together, okay? But yeah, it's probably bad, whatever it is. Look, again, I'm not like a hardliner on this.  I just don't think it's a big cultural issue with eight billion people on the planet. If you want to focus a microscope on any subculture, you're going to find issues. But I feel like, I feel like in this case, it would be like trying to say it's inappropriate for people to game because of like the smash tourney, like molestation bullshit, you know, or like Sky Epstein's house or whatever.   We're like, we're doing the little apple decor on the hairs to split it into eight even, you know, lateral sections. I'm rambling. Yeah, anyway, sorry, go on. You got it. This one coming in from an interesting dark bag says, Bosch, what about you? They say, Bosch, if you had kids, would you bring them to a drag queen show? Absolutely not. I get super bored. No, sorry.   No, I like it in general, like if I had kids or whatever, there's been a couple of drag events that I have gone to that like you could totally bring kids to like no issue whatsoever. It would be, it would be as rackious as bringing them to like basically any other event. Well, I want to make one point. It's like, I think some of these legislation, they want to make it a felony for a parent to, you know, go to, I don't think that's a little over punitive, but I don't think kids should be a drag shows, but I think they're, I think they're going, like you said, a little bit of the gay panic, I guess. Sorry. Yeah, it's a little extreme there. Yeah, I don't know. I think that stuff can be fun. I think like oftentimes a lot of it is just because kids really like costumes. So like drag queens are pretty good at doing big, ostentatious costumes. So I think that can be appealing. I don't know. It's a good fashion advice you can get there if you care about that. Gotcha. This one, only a couple more questions. Laughful at these guys go. They're busy guys. Brandon Hanson says, Vosh, communism as practiced after WW2 was right about LGBTs. And if, I don't know what they mean by that, they say, and if the USA becomes communist, I look forward to what's going to happen to that group. That's a genocide joke. The Soviet Union criminalized homosexuality under Stalin, but this person hasn't done their research. See, I know more about hating the Soviet Union than they do. The only reason homosexuality was decriminalized prior was because of the abolition of the czarist criminal system. In practice, de facto, homosexuals were still sent to camps even under Lenin's regime. So you're going to have to wake up pretty early in the morning to know more negative things about the USSR than me, buddy. But to that point, so communism is not gay for the good, communism would not be beneficial for the gay community? Well, there's nothing about communism that's inherently anti-gay, but of course the Soviet Union wasn't communism. The closest we've ever gotten to real, like queer liberation, has come currently from liberal democracies. If the many things liberals get wrong, individual freedoms are one of the things they start pretty close to right on. So we'll see if we can't improve on that, make people even gayer in the future. You know how it is. You got it. This one coming in from Ayang Medad III says, Alex, in your opening statement, you stated that strip clubs are quote less damaging, unquote, than drag shows. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Got you. I think they're equally damaging going to a heterosexual strip club or drag show, and I think that would be negative, and it could have a long lasting effect. The first time, I still remember the first time I saw a woman in a bra. I told you earlier, Teen Wolf, like I remember, I forget the character's name, but the girl that Michael J. Fox was trying to date, and then he turned into a wolf, he ended up dating her, that girl. I mean, that was, I think, the first time I was ever around. So I remember it was like it was yesterday.  So that's why I think it's not good to bring young kids to these situations where they have, now I see a pair of breasts, I don't even flinch, because I'm so desensitized to it. So that was your opening experience, and you turned into a fine strapping on men. So if anything, that's a positive argument in my favor. I appreciate that. Well, I mean, you know, go figure, but that's what I'm saying.  That's my point. Do you got it? Go away. I can't tell if this is a serious question or if they're being playful. So is it okay for kids to watch political Twitch streamers? Is there any reason it wouldn't be? Yeah, every reason. Please God, absolutely not.  I agree. Yeah, I don't know. I think we, and I really like, I mean, I've gotten political, but I'm kind of anti-political. I'm anti-politics. I think if you idolize a politician, that's like thinking the stripper likes you. You know, so yeah, I don't think we should expose kids to ultra political things too young. No way. They need to have a childhood. It's like Michael Jackson because he didn't have a childhood. And I defend Michael Jackson to the death. I believe that Wade Robertson and James Safechuck are liars, but I don't want to get on that tangent. I don't think Michael Jackson ever molested a kid. I just think that he suffered from terrible arrested development.  And then they, you know, an older age, they yearn for that. Wait, there's no way what MJ did. Even if he didn't molest a kid, all that would have had to have fit your gender confusion definition, right? Like he was like the most, and he'd like invite kids to the Neverland range. But this is why Vosh, because Macaulay Culkin and then what's the other guy that, you know, had all the six, Cory Feldman, they all said that they hung out with Michael Jackson for years, literally they hung out with him for years. And he never once did.  So, but I don't know. I just, he talked. Well, and this other thing, well, Wade Robinson, well, he did, he did dance, but he didn't dance as a woman. But Wade Robinson, one of the persons that said he was molested by Michael Jackson, he actually testified on his behalf twice and was cross-examined by the California's top prosecutor in both times said Michael Jackson never did anything to him. And then conveniently five months after Michael Jackson died, his story changed. So for me, that's why I think it's weird. Well, I'm not a, I'm not an expert in any of the MJ stuff, but I can testify with an expert's knowledge that he did in fact dance like a woman later in his career. Yeah, but he didn't dress as a woman. He didn't dress as a woman.  No, he always wore the shoulder pads. I don't, find me a picture of Michael Jackson and drag. I'll send you 500. Shoulder pads were big for women back in the 80s and 90s. Yeah, but come on, Bob. Let's see. Ah, I don't know. We're having some magic. He didn't wear a dress. I mean, maybe if he did for one of his music videos or something, but I don't think so. This one coming in. Last one squeaks it by the little time limit we have is Brandon Hansen. Thanks very much. Says Vaush and the Communist Revolution. Are you going to be the Twitch streamer or ditch digger? Alex will be an official party member and in high office. Great. Godspeed. May the may the. Well, wait, first, first of all, no communism that I support has a higher party member. Okay.   Okay, I'm going to be proud to be the trench digger.  I'm proud to serve the proletariat.  So I'll do a bad job. You know, I'll put the work off into my comrades. Well, that's what I do in prison. The people that try to act like they're disabled to work in prison and they give them a worse job. So, you know, that's I think that could happen.  You're right. I might have to I might have to pull double time with that. Want to say folks, our guests are linked in the description box. Then includes if you're listening to this via the podcast. So as all the debates are uploaded to the modern day debate podcast where we put our guest links in the description box there as well. In case you want to learn more about their views. It has been a true pleasure to be with you guys. Thank you very much, Vosh and Alex. The pleasure is all mine. Thanks for being with us tonight. Pleasure has been mine. Thank you. Been a pleasure. Three pleasures. I'll be right back in just a moment for the post credits scene with updates on upcoming debates such as the one at the bottom right of your screen. So hit subscribe for many more debates coming up and I'll be right back to say hello to you in chat. Man, we got a lot of nasty spam stuff in the chat tonight.  Oh my. Oh, all right. We're hiding those people. Don't worry. We're hiding those bots. But I want to say thanks so much for being with us. I see you there in the old live chat. Joshua Larson. Good to have you slaying. Glad you were here. Vosh fan. Happy to have you. Troy Collins. Hope you're doing well. As well as XRP patriot aka the crypto ghost. Thanks for coming by. And Tom Jones. Glad you were here. Elaine Sabatino. Happy to have you with us. Michael or is it Michelle Tremblay? Is it? Let me know. Glad to have you with us. As well as Justin R. And Jeffrey Rodrigo. Achevri. Achevria. Let me know if I pronounced it right. Rolling the R. We're glad that you were here, Jeffrey. As well as Brandon Hansen. Good to see you. And Rock E. Shepard. Nikki. Good to see you again. Regular viewer. You've been hanging out here for a long time. Is it yours already, Nikki? Jackson Hammerhock. Hammercock. Thank you for being here with us. And Joe Arne. Glad to have you with us. And La Tornado Pump that you are here. As well as Andrew. Thanks for your being with us tonight. It says, how do you choose these topics? Actually, this was one that Alex said, hey, find me somebody that wants to debate this topic. And I said, OK, well, let me ask around. And I was like, you know, I was like, Vosh, oftentimes goes for these kind of fun, kind of like more provocative topics. So I asked Vosh, what would you disagree with Alex on this? And so he's like, sure. Lou, there is another spammer. Oh, goodness gracious. What is with it? It's always sex stuff with the spammers. It's not like they're ever trying to sell you anything else or trying to, you know, bait you into clicking on some other type of link. Like if they were just selling something, like steel cut oats, it's always about sex. But just like as Robert California would say, it's always, he says like, it's always boils back down to sex. But Max Phoenix, thanks for being with us, as well as Jeremy Nolan, pumped to have you with us. And get real. Good to see you again. Gloopy Gloyper, thanks for coming by, as well as Lettornado. And Troy Collins says, happy to be here. I can't see. Let's see. It's like symbols for me. So I don't know how to say your name in terms of you have an orange avatar with a Chinese symbol. I think it's a Chinese symbol. It says you have the sexiest spam bots. Thank you so much. You appreciate that. General Balzac, thanks for being here. And thanks for all of our mods. We try to have a lot of flexibility in the old live chat. We want you guys to be able to say what you want, for real. Obviously, we have to follow YouTube terms of service.  Not really. It's not that I so for the record, like I don't like it. I don't like when people are mean to each other. I hope people get along. But we want to let you guys, if you guys want to give each other crap, like, yeah, you'll find whatever. And if you want to give me crap, like, hey, I'll take it. I kind of like it. But the thing is we have to follow YouTube terms of service because in a very practical way, even those of you who are like radically for free speech and you're like, no, James, break the rules of YouTube. It's like, well, okay, but YouTube actually is a marketing machine for us YouTubers. They promote our videos like crazy. The impressions that we get on our videos are pretty big. We have grown a lot because YouTube recommends our videos. In fact, that's the primary way that we've probably grown. And so we do follow the YouTube terms of service because it makes sense. We don't want to cut off the branch that we're sitting on by breaking their rules and then they don't promote us as much because, hey, we are grateful that we have grown and we want to say thank you guys for helping us grow. You guys, seriously, I appreciate it. I want to say you guys have helped this channel in very real ways. And sometimes you guys think I'm just saying that because it's supposed to be like fake humility or something. No, no, no, it's not. Here's a way, very practical way. The Q&A is a portion of the debate that people enjoy. They usually like kind of hearing all these different thoughts and ideas. You guys supply the questions for the Q&A. So we appreciate that. That always mixes things up, gets new ideas in, and people are like, oh, okay, yeah, this person's got an interesting question. I hadn't thought of that. That's one way. Also though, no joke, if you happen to share our debates, if you like these topics and maybe you're like, hey, maybe you know of a YouTuber or a Twitch streamer and you're like, I bet they love this channel. They usually like debates on politics just like me. You could share this video by clicking the share button down below. It's waiting for you. It says share on it. And if you share this video, which a lot of you, I can see in our stats in the YouTube Creator Studio, it shows me, we get a ton of shares. So you guys do share our content a lot. And that for real, that's a big deal.  It really, if I go on Twitter and I share our link, it's not very credible. Because they're like, well, yeah, of course, James, you say that it's like a great link and that people should check it out because you're like kind of like running modern day debate. Like it doesn't really have as much credibility, right? Because it's like just promoting your own links, James, you know, like, however, if you share it, you're a third party. It's a lot more credible because you're a lot more objective or neutral. And so people really do take that seriously. So we do appreciate when you share videos. That helps a lot. And then we are at a whopping 324 likes right now. So thank you guys for hitting like. That really does help. We're only six away from hitting the 330 mark. Let's get to how about this? Let's shoot for a third of a thousand, which would be if we can get 333 and one third likes, we will be at technically one, you know, we'll just say 0.3 repeating. We will be at one third of a thousand likes already for this video. That is huge, you guys. Seriously, it really does help. As YouTube says, hey, yeah, we do use that. It kind of factors into the algorithm where the more engagement, whether it be comments or likes that a video gets, the more that video will be recommended to other people. So that really does help us. If you've ever wondered how it works, if you want to dislike, that helps pretty much, you know, just as well, frankly. That's what I've been told. I don't know. I'm curious myself. I'm like, really? I don't know. Frankly, I kind of wonder. I kind of think it probably is true.  Okay, so I think that, don't worry, I'm all right. Is that YouTube, YouTube cares about how long people watch videos. And for them, if disliking a video is more highly correlated with, or you could say strongly correlated with watching it longer, I would guess YouTube probably does count it just as good, even though it's kind of sick in a way, because you're, you know, you're probably disliking it because you're unhappy or angry. But YouTube is like, neglecting that. It's like, and maybe they even recommend it to you more, because I mean, if you watched it longer, while disliking it, which I wouldn't be surprised if people do, because there is something about, something that makes you angry, can, you're sometimes that you're more engaged, because you at least care. You're not bored. That's the, like, the last thing that YouTube can have you be, is like, you can do, YouTube can do a lot of things. It's kind of like, when you're dating, when you're dating a lady, just trust me lads, as a, okay. You can do a lot of things to a woman, but you can't make her bored.  So, that's right. I don't know what your name is. You've got to let me know what I can call you, but I see your orange emoticon, and you say, hate viewers are valuable viewers. That's right. Hate watchers, you could call them as well. It really helps. Max Phoenix, thanks for being with us. I see you there, in the old live chat, as well as Terp the Bandit. Glad you were with us, as well as perpetually annoyed. Good to have you here. Eric Nelson, happy to have you. Swampy Pubes, good to see you again. Bezos Anti-Bullying Agency, thanks for your support. Appreciate that. It's all just optical illusions. I'm using, like, filters and stuff. And Jackson, let's see. IL, is that how you spell your name? Let me know. We're glad you were with us. Willie Keenan, happy to have you here. Triumph the Insult Dog, thanks for coming by.  Appreciate that. It's true. Yeah, we don't want you to be bored. It's important. Let me tell you. Jordan, happy to have you here. Says, Lady, did you call me? That's right. Ladies and gentlemen. Because a lady or a gentleman is someone who always tries to make those around them as comfortable as possible. You know a movie I got that from? Let me know if you, if you guys recognize that from chat, that's what a gentleman is. It also a lady, too. But in the movie, they, that's how they define a gentleman. Scott from Space, thanks for coming by.  That's true. And that's the funny thing. Like sometimes, and I like, probably should just leave them be because it's like, hey, if they're watching, that's good. Just leave them alone, James. Is that sometimes I see people who, on Twitter, will say, I'm boycotting modern day debate because they hosted this topic and it offended me or they hosted this person and I'm offended. And then like two weeks later, I'll see them watching in the live chat. I don't even say, I'm like, I thought you were boycotting us. Come on. I, in a way, I'm like everybody, I would like to be liked by everybody. I would like people to fear how much they like me. But, at the same time, there's a sick part of me that kind of likes it when we do get like a big backlash. Like when we get a lot of people who are really like, boycotting modern day debate, burn them, burn them at the stake. That's where I'm kind of like, I don't know why. I have to be honest with you guys. I don't know what's with me. And, I'm not a counseling major, but I'm getting my PhD in psychology. And I kind of wonder about that. I'm like, there's a very healthy dose of defiance in me that I just kind of, it motivates me when I see that. I really kind of like, get off to that, non-sexually. Aaron M, thanks for coming by. I see you there in the old live chat. And let's see, Get Real says, that's blasphering the past, modern day debate. You're right. It is blasphering the past. That was really good. That's right. Blasphering the past with Brandon Frazier, Alicia Silverstone. I can't remember the other fellow. He was always happy. You get that joke from the movie? And then General Balzac says, is boycott modern day debate still a thing? Yeah. Every once in a while, I see it on Twitter. I saw it like a month ago on Twitter because we hosted Richard Spencer in an abortion debate. So controversial topic, controversial people. And you know, I, as you guys know, I don't agree with everybody we have on the channel. Obviously. I mean, in most cases, it's impossible because it would be a contradiction to agree with both.   Or you know, you're thinking like, no, no, no. The view that drives me up the wall, the one that I'm just like, gosh, like when people say like, oh, everybody's right. Everybody's true. Like, or it's like that. It's like, please. General Ballsack says, but yes, there are. So there are people.  It's true. I like, I kind of like it. It's like I get fired up and excited. Jeremy Nolan says, some men want to see the world burn, James. That's true. Maybe that's it. I don't know. But Daniel Griff says, pretty soon people are going to think drag queen is a suggestion. Hmm. I don't know.  Daniel, let's see. Jordan says, two dimensional minds, man. Jordan, are you one of those people that says, everybody is right? Because Jordan, seriously, I'll come out there into the chat. And I was like, Amanda, good to see you. Golden Toad, thanks for coming by. So did you just assume my gender, as well as Jeffrey Rodrigo? Thanks for being here, bud. And Daz72 Dan, happy to have you with us. Let me tell you, death bulk, happy to have you here. The boogie 2988 defense. We've tried. I've invited boogie. I could have sworn. I'm wondering if he emailed. Like if you responded, I can't remember if you responded in the email I sent him. But anyway, we've like odds are good. If you see somebody out there and you're like, I wonder if James has invited them. Like we've probably invited like an awful lot. There's so many emails. I said, I'm not complaining. Like this is just part of the territory of modern day debate. Because we always, you know, we want to get new guests.  And I get no response. Sad. But I don't, I never get angry. I never feel like, because it would be so entitled and gross if we were like, like they don't even respond. It's like, well, people are busy. I don't blame them. That's all right. That I mean, Hey, if not everybody's cup of tea to do debates. It's all right. Scott S. Thanks for coming by as well as Maximo Manteros. As you take debate suggestions, how do you go about what debate topics will occur? We're open to ideas. So if you happen to have ideas, let me know. Like that works for me. And you can do it in the comments. You can do it in the social tab. So if I post in the social tab, sometimes I'll do that. I'm at modern day debate at gmail.com. Pretty hard to, you know, forget. It's just our name at gmail. If you wanted to reach out there, it's, you know, like, I got to be honest, though, like there are certain topics. Yeah, it's, but we're, you know, we're selective about it because a lot of people like maybe say, you know, Hey, you should do this topic. And like sometimes it's like, Oh, yeah, we should. That's great. Like that happens.  And like, I don't know if people are going to go for that. Maybe. So Brando has electrolytes. But Andrew says, I just debated gun control. I'll come on possibly. So that topic, I got to be honest. It's okay. But I've actually found gun control. Yeah, hasn't really engaged our debaters that much. I'm open to it. But it's, it actually is like one of those topics that surprisingly, it's like meh. It's kind of a meh topic. You know what is surprisingly maybe the like most, let's see, unpopular topic. No joke. It's probably like the least popular where everybody a lot of times people are like, Oh, but it's edgy James and his taboo. So it'll work. You should do this topic. Topics on sexuality. Per se. Don't do as well. So for example, like we can have like atheism versus Christianity. What is true? That'll usually do pretty well. Like that fits like, it's kind of a flagship topic. We started with philosophy of religion. You know, debates. But if you did like which worldview is more like gives them more a better foundation for sexuality being more pleasurable or like what group Christians or atheists are like have greater sexual satisfaction in their lives. Like that will completely crash and burn. No one will show up. I'm telling you, debates on sexuality per se. D