Is it on to Mike? Cool, thank you, Yolanda, for organizing all of this and getting it together. Thanks, everybody, for coming. So my quick live story is that I was a UX designer and a web developer for a long time, and I got burned out and decided to go back and do a PhD in psychology. And then I realized what science needed was a web developer where you do that UX design skills, not another psychologist. And so I'm still finishing my PhD in work psychology, and I'm trying to bring these user experience design principles to science to help speed up discovery. So I think all of us probably know somebody who's suffering from something and waiting on science to save them. And the scientific system is really, really inefficient, and UX design is sort of about efficiency. Silicon Valley uses it to make a lot of money. We in science can use it to get science out further and faster and easier understood. So UX design, if you haven't heard of it, it's not like graphic design where it's about making things really aesthetically cohesive and it takes a lifetime to learn. UX design is really about making things lazy. You can learn it really quickly. The idea is that calling something lazy in UX design is like a compliment. Like, oh, that's so lazy. You must have worked hard to make it really simple. We kind of think of human beings as kind of being like evolved to be lazy as a matter of efficiency. Like you want the maximum possible reward for the least possible effort. Who doesn't want that, right? That's kind of just efficiency. So you just wanna kind of embrace your inner lazy person and design for that laziness, which can be really hard, but a lot of you probably already have some natural skills in it. So I'll start you off with some work psychology. So when you're designing a poster, or really doing any task in general in work psychology, we talk about there being kind of two motivations that you can have. One is like, I just want my teacher to be happy with me. I just want my professor to be happy with me. My reviewers to approve me. My boss to approve me, right? You had this sort of like external kind of motivation. And that's called approved performance goal orientation.  That's one motivation that a lot of us usually have. The alternative to that is something called mastery orientation. The idea there is like, I just want my poster, like I care about my research and I just wanna impact as many people as possible with it, like by any means necessary. That's like just mastering a task for its own sake. And that's called a mastery orientation in it. And the more you can move yourself towards just that wanting that impact, you know, like that's gonna do more for you than any design principle I can give you. So that's the quick psychology sermons. You have an idea, you wanna get it out to your peers and to everybody else, that's the goal. So this is a traditional scientific poster, AKA the wall of text or the paper on a poster. Posters have looked this way for at least 30 years. I've had people email me and be like, Mike, I was at poster sessions in the 60s, they looked the same. Now, and this should be a red flag. Like this has been, this design stayed the same since before the internet. Like we've learned a lot of things since the internet about how to communicate information and how learning happens. Like you'd think, like red flag here, you'd think if we're applying science to posters, they would get better and better every single year as we discover new things about learning, but they haven't. So there's something else driving us like blind conformity. And so a lot of people think that there's this continuum of scientific knowledge, right? There's like opinions like the worst, a little bit better than opinion is if you're like at least informed by scientific theory, right?  And then the best case is like you really well replicated something. But there's another category which we're all pretty familiar with during COVID and that's anti-evidence, right? Like you can, if you're going against the evidence, that's almost worse than like blind opinion, right? And so a lot of people think that the traditional scientific poster, like you just assumed but it's here, but it's like really well replicated, right? It must be, everybody uses it. And the designs I'm pushing are like here, they're just like my opinion or whatever, but it's not really the case. Like the traditional design is actually more here, it's anti-evidence. So a lot of the studies on scientific posters, the traditional design find that they're like completely ineffective for knowledge transfer. Like a lot of the contents ignored in eye tracking studies. And they were designed for when poster sessions were like six posters in a room, now they're a hundred and the design never changed. And if you go through like the literature on learning and stuff like that, a lot of the best practices are just like completely ignored by that design. The designs I'm pushing and the stuff we're gonna be talking about today are here. They're like, I can defend every single design decision I make with relevant theory and citations. And we're starting to test them out. But the takeaway is that nobody is here. Nobody has a replicated poster design or poster design elements freely. And so that's kind of on up to you. Like the way we're gonna find that is for you to experiment and for us to try a bunch of things with posters and figure out what's works. So we're kind of at the beginning of this revolution, but it's an exciting time. And the best thing I can do for you is to get you here, get you informed with the principles and the theory, and then maybe you can apply them better than I have and we can all figure out sort of a really effective poster design. These things apply to like presentations, reports, really anything you design. So I'm gonna teach you the most important theory in UX design in the first five minutes here. So if you space out, you'll have gotten the most important part. So I want everybody to pull out their phones. I'm gonna pull out my phone and I want you to pull up your, like the site you would use to distract yourself if you were already bored of me talking. And so I'm gonna pull up Twitter if I can get this thing working.  You'll get more out of this if you do it on your own phone, but you can follow along with me if you want. So let's see if I can get my Twitter pulled up. Disclaimer, I'm a psychologist to follow a lot of diverse brains, but if you see stuff related to UFOs or RuPaul's Drag Race, that's just because I like those things. I never have any idea what's gonna show up on here. Let's see if I can get my phone near it. Yolanda, can you see my screen, okay? Okay, cool, all right, cool. All right, so I'm gonna pull up my real Twitter feed.  Like you do.  You can think of each post like a patch that can contain information, right? And there's a couple of factors. You'll notice that you kind of slow down on some things that you're interested in and kind of speed pass stuff that you don't care about, right? You probably do this a thousand times a day. And there are a couple of factors that determine when you kind of slow down and are interested in something and when you kind of speed pass and switch past it. And one of those factors is how easy it is to process. Like you're listening to my voice right now. Just keep scrolling, keep scrolling. You're listening to my voice, you're trying to process it so you can probably only process like images, short text. You're gonna gravitate towards those things you can kind of process at a really light, easy cognitive load because you're having to process my voice. And so that's one factor. That's like how easy it is to process the interaction costs. But the other factor is like how interesting it is to you, right? And this can change like based on your mood, right? Like look for something fun, right? Like, so I've got like a little AI robot thing, you know I'm scrolling past the COVID news and everything but no, no, no too intense. So like, okay, smiling person or a mask, you know like fun stuff, right? Disney image. And so change your goal. Look for something, you know science you're newsworthy.  So it's like each poster, each patch is giving off sort of a smell to you but it's containing something relevant to your goal, right? And so what you slow down on is things that are like worth the effort. They're more interesting to you than they are effort, right? Okay, phones down. Goodbye to those of you we lost there's always some people who just stay on Reddit that's cool, at least just remember your foraging. So what you just learned was called information foraging theory. It is the bedrock of every website you've ever used every app you've ever used even professional UX designers use information foraging theory when they design stuff even if they don't know it. So you now know a lot more of the science behind a lot of the apps you use every day than even a lot of professional developers which I think is kind of cool. So to recap the concepts you had interaction costs, right? That's how easy or hard something is how much effort it takes. So fast food applies in your life too. Fast food really is low interaction cost following a recipe, buying ingredients that kind of thing, cooking that's really high interaction cost, right? In terms of information here's like a low interaction cost thing, right? Like acetylcholine release in the BLA ships earlier as animals learn about actions, acutely to reward like it's really takes 10 seconds to process, right? Traditional poster I don't know how high the interaction cost on this but it feels really high, right? Like it's five, six minutes to process all of that probably, right? And that's kind of the point it just feels really high interaction cost. The other variable was information sent. So remember that's like the smell whether it's relevant to your goal or not. And if you're going through a poster session as an example, then you're trying to learn something people go into poster sessions really kind of open minded and they're like, I just wanna learn something cool, right? So if your goal is to learn something then the strongest information sent you can provide on your poster as the poster designer is to teach them something even as they're walking by. So I'm gonna give you three different titles for the same article with different levels of information sent. So here's the first title we have investigating the effectiveness of differential mask usage strategies typical like vague abstract scientific title just keyword salad says almost nothing. And you're like, okay, let's dial up the information sent worried your cloth mask isn't filtering coronavirus this hat could make it more effective. Now it sounds like clickbait, right? Like Buzzfeed, that's what Buzzfeed and clickbait is it's a medium information sent it's just giving you a whiff to make you click, right?  Okay, the strongest information sent you can provide is to literally teach somebody something like this. Put an eye on stocking over your cloth mask to make it more effective at filtering out coronavirus. Boom, that is literally a hidden information. You could just see it on the walk by I'm like, oh, I just learned something, right? You provided value. You can do this with images too. So here's like a vague image like I don't know if it's a crowd, is it masks? I have no idea what it's about, right? Like, okay, it's definitely about masks. And then like the best information the strongest information sent image you could provide would be like literally a picture of now and stocking over cloth mask, right? Like right on the notes, literally in this case. So this is easier for some of you depending on your research, right? If you have like pictures of your research like you're doing like life sciences stuff where you got like microscope pictures and stuff that's gonna be a lot easier for you for us in psychology or social science it's hard to visualize things really concretely but we try to make it work like trying to visualize like job satisfaction or something, but anyway. So the idea here is it's a trade-off and you probably noticed this like something can be really, really low interaction cost like a 30 second video on YouTube it's mildly interesting to you you're gonna click it because it's 30 seconds who cares, right? On the other hand, it can be like something that's a lot of it's a very high interaction cost like those articles you come across they're like paywall you have to like register first to see them but they're like really, really interesting to you they're like speaking to your soul you're like, I'm gonna read this article, right? Like, like in my case I'll like view the HTML of the website and like delete the paywall pop-ups from the HTML to be able to read the article and stuff if I really care and like as if you're doing research you know this pain of like having to go through 50 different hoops to get to a scientific article that's when the information send is overcoming the higher action cost but the whole holy grail here is to have low interaction cost and strong information send strong relevance to you, right? That's when you're getting lots and lots of engagement and you're gonna be happy doing it. The other factor here was patch switching I swear to God, I'm gonna tie this back to posters it's all gonna make sense but patch switching is the idea that you kind of like scroll past the posts remember kind of like you'd switch posters in a poster session so you can learn things from the patterns of people patch switching so you've all spent a lot of time in Netflix during the pandemic, I'm sure and you know when you're browsing Netflix and you're kind of like not feeling anything and you're just like scanning the row and you're like, okay, blah, you know maybe trombo, I don't know and you kind of just sort of check in I call this like the boredom bump, right? And like there's the study in psychology where if you can be people in an empty room they'll like spontaneously engage and I guess the idea was that like we've evolved to sort of test our environment randomly and if it's rewarding then we brought in bills otherwise we pull back and so like it's almost random, right? And if you watch people in poster sessions you'll see them walk this way they'll like basically ignore most posters and they'll kind of just sort of check in like maybe this one still not feeling it and then keep walking, right? That's a bad patch switching pattern that means nothing is really engaging but you've had that experience on Netflix where you're like, I'm kind of in the mood for like a, I don't know like reality show maybe just like an escape or whatever and then Netflix has one of those hyper specific categories like escapist reality TV and you're like, oh, that's exactly what I want and what do you do? You like zoom in, you're like, hey, the big flower flight Russ Valley restores, restaurants on the edge and you're like really focusing on each one it's like I call this like the kid in the candy store curves, right? This is a healthy patch switching pattern where you're like kind of like really engaged in everything and like if you're like browsing TikTok or something it's the same deal or like if it's really, the algorithms really dialed in you're like looking at every single one, right? But if it's off, you're just like flipping past a lot. So museums optimized for this, right?   In poster sessions, this would be completely different from our current approach. So you're currently you kind of design posters and you're taught to design posters to click bait people to like trap them into talking to you and consume all of the hour they have for that poster session, right? The alternative would be to design posters to encourage people to circulate. If there are a hundred posters in the room we want you to learn a lot and be like exposed to a lot of new research in your field if you were just gonna spend 30 minutes at one you could just read a paper. And so that means designing posters to encourage people to see lots of posters to encourage that patch switching. So here's an example on a virtual poster session we'll apply this. So here, like the posters each poster is a patch, right? It's a knowledge patch and then where's the information sent?  And so like what happens is you start out with this choice paralysis usually in poster sessions of like I don't even know what to interact with with right? That's like zero information sent. The interaction cost is really usually high in poster sessions, even virtual ones, right? So you've got to like you start out with that like I don't know which poster to choose then you have to like click one, right? You have to wait on it to load you have to like, you know find out where you want to look at first zoom in, right? God help you if you're on your phone by the way and then like zoom out, right? And then like click the back button and like go through all of this all over again to like to learn anything from posters and your patch switching pattern probably looks something like this you check out like one or two posters and you're like, yeah, I'm done. I did my duty like I was a good citizen of my field or whatever. And I've seen this in surveys we're just starting to run studies on virtual poster sessions. But like I think one stat I heard was that like one virtual poster session they ran people spent a total of eight minutes in this session, not like per poster but like total. And the other one was that the majority of people saw like less than five posters out of 50 or 60, right? Like so people are just like checking at a couple and then bailing which is really they're missing a lot of science that could help accelerate their research, right? And it's not their fault, it's blame the design. And it's not if you Google the poster designers fault themselves it's like we're all trained this way I design posters like this too but there's something broken about the system here that we all can help fix. So summary of the interaction cost.  One point about that zooming to think about just in your life is to like a lot of times like if something if you have a task that's really unpleasant and takes like 10 minutes, right? Reducing that task may feel like you're making creating a better efficient user experience but a lot of times it's the little things it's like that thing you have to do every day but it only takes you 30 seconds we get to do it like five times every single day, right? That really adds up like the zooming and if you eliminate that like for me it was my phone like the face ID was broken on it, right?  I know that's first world problems, right? But like with some of the carpal tunnel like that adds up like a million times a day, right? And when I eventually like just bought the bullet and like got the face ID fixed or whatever like my day just felt easier or whatever just those repetitive things really, really do add up and in science look for those like repetitive wastes in your process and those can help almost as much as fixing the big things. This is really important for how people read online designing in this way for like low interaction cost high information send because how people read online there's really only one finding you need to know about how people read online and that's that they don't they skim and they scan they read half of all content and when they do read they read 20% slower on screens. I don't know why this is I think it might be a screen resolution thing so like maybe when screens get better it'll speed back up but I think on e-readers if you have a Kindle or something it's just as fast but most screens 20% slower which means when you're designing a virtual poster or anything virtual there's a built in higher interaction costs that you're having to fight because everything is processed slower. All right, it's almost time for a game. So our next concept is graphic design you now know foraging theory. You guys might have seen this meme going around that you will read this first and then you will read this then this one and this when you get better at design you'll be able to know where people are looking at all times and if you get a lot better what you'll be able to do is you'll be able to sort of direct people's attention in order you'll be like look at this and this and this and this, right? This is called visual hierarchy and it's sort of like a really fundamental thing in design. So I'm gonna teach you guys some visual hierarchy skills with a game. So I'm gonna share a Google Doc link. Let's see, let's just chat. Someone pointed out, Michelle pointed out a typo on my information sense slide. Thank you, Michelle. Let's see. Cool, all right, go to the Google Doc. You should see something like this. See how many of you are feeling like playing a game today? I don't seem like... Oh, is it working? Oh, I think I just sent it to Michelle. Let's see. Okay, here we go, there we go. I was so scared at first. That's like, oh my God, one person. There we go. I sent it to one, so it's actually 100% conversion rate. Oh, there we go. That's better. Awesome, okay. Now we're cooking with gas. I don't know if you guys have that saying. Cool, all right, so what I want you to do as you're logging in here is just pick any slide. Accept the last two and duplicate it and put your name at the bottom. So you're going to right click, duplicate slide, and then the speaker knows you should be like, Mike's slide, do not touch. And that's going to be your slide. If you want to try something crazy, you can try the second class slide, the one with the gray boxes. That is brand new. I'd like for one person to try it, but it doesn't have to be you. I try to incorporate a little experiment in every presentation I get to see if it explodes. Let's see. Okay, so everybody's still duplicating their slides. I will tell you that if you pick ones with the numbers in the corners, that's the hardest one. I hope you're still duplicating. Right now you have no idea what these cryptic numbers mean. Maybe some of you guessed. Okay, so what you're going to do is basically you're going to cover the numbers and try to make people look in that order. So if you look back at my screen real quick, I'll give you an example. So this is Mortise, right? Your eye goes straight to his face. And then hi, I'm Mortise. Follow this arrow. And well done, right? Like that's his number four. So he got you to look perfectly in the right order, right? And so that's what you're going to do. You can copy and paste from Google images. You can draw boxes. You can do different colors. Limit yourself to just one arrow if you can because arrows are kind of cheating. But yeah, so I'm going to start a timer for about four minutes and just your slide is your slide. It's lawless. Do whatever you think will direct people's attention and I'm going to sort of narrate with tips to help you do that. So I'll start a timer for four minutes. All right, go. So your first tip is that people's eyes generally go to what's easiest to process first. That means like a picture is easier to process than text, right? A big thing's easier to process than a small thing. Like high contrast is easier to process than low contrast. So like a dark color on a light background or a light color on a dark background, those are high contrast, right? Those are easier to process than if the colors were closer to each other. You can use this like two ways. Like don't just think about speeding things up. So you're like, got it? Image number one, you know? Think about it in terms of slowing things down, slowing down that eyeball too. Because if you don't want something to look at something until number three, you've got to figure out how to make sure number three doesn't compete with number one. That it's slower to process, right? Everything you add to a design competes with everything else. And so what you're doing here is you're trying to sort of create sort of an order to the competition. So images faster than text, big things above little things, high contrast, overload contrast, that's your first tip.  You got plenty of time. So your second tip is that alignment. So you've probably heard that, you know, that things should be aligned or whatever because it looks nice and it does look nice. But one of the other things that aligning two things does, like if you've got like a number one kind of across from a number two and they're kind of staggered, but you put boxes over both of them that then make the boxes size to be like the top edge is shared between them, right? It's like it looks aligned. Your eye will naturally follow that sort of like invisible alignment line, right? And that's really the purpose of alignment is it sort of guides your eye really evenly. And when things are misaligned, it just feels like your eyes go all over the place. So you can use that to sort of create invisible lines between your objects, between your numbers. I'm curious what this person who picked the gray box slide, good luck. But anyway, so you can use color in terms of making things faster or slower. Like let's say you have a white background, right? You might make that first square like dark blue, right? And the second, if you want your number two, your number three can be like a little bit lighter blue and your number four can be like an even lighter blue, right? You can use that less contrast that way to do that. Your next tip is you've got plenty of time left, mid 40, have fun. So your next tip is repetition. So your eyeballs kind of detect rhymes as weird as that sounds. So like visual rhymes. So like if you put a yellow box over your number one, if you put something yellow over your number two, for some reason like I don't know why this happens, but like you'll kind of after you look at the one yellow box, your eye will kind of like find like the second yellow thing. It's a weird, but it works. So you can use that. It's especially helpful if you've got numbers that are really far apart. So you've got another minute. So you guys already creating some good ones. Okay, your, let's see, next tip is proximity. So if you have two things that are next to each other, people are going to kind of assume they're grouped and like it's going to be hard. If it's like a one next to a four, you're going to have to find a way to slow down that four really well to get people to skip over it. Or you can use it to your advantage. Like if you put big shapes over something, right? To make your one and your two look closer to each other, right? That'll help you, things get processed one after the other. I think that is all your tips. You still have 30 seconds. Last tip, just random. People tend to look at the top left first. That's just how our conditions, that's why all logos are at the top left on websites, including the file name on this Google Doc. That's just a, like, that's something you're going to, that can either help you or hurt you depending on where your numbers are. Seven seconds, six, five, four, three, two, one. One, okay, pencils down. All right. I'm going to do the first one.  All right, you ready? Here we go. Okay, face. Number one, nice job. I'm assuming your name is Omar. Omar, there's no number there. Bad attempt at a headshot. Nice. I think that was, I think you're probably going in the right order. Soon I have a professional headshot. So I think you probably, yeah, you perfect for this. Yeah, yeah, but perfect job.  It's a fine head, it's okay.  Those are my, those are my kitchen walls with no decorations on them, so yeah. People still know what you look like. It still works, but headshots are hard. Still a good headshot. Let's see, you want to do the next one. This is the perfect, just you want to explain how you mastered this. So you did the descending font size, right? Yes, I almost basically did exactly the example that you showed previously. Cool. And yeah, it's not very original, but I thought that it- No, it completely works. That's the thing about design. It's like, if it doesn't matter how you figured out how to make it work, even if you just like copy and paste it from something else that worked, like steel, like that's the whole phrase, great artist steel, like absolutely. If it works, it works. It doesn't matter how you got this. That's great. Good job. Perfect score. Do you want to do the next one I want? Sure. Yeah, you need me to like share my screen or something or just- Nope, I'm just going to pull, look at my screen, I'm going to pull one up and just call out what you see first. You ready? Okay. Okay, go. I saw how are you today first, but it's probably not right. It's just in the center. And then hello next. And then I saw the number four, and then good. Nice. So this is really interesting. No, no, it's not like it's, again, like it's not necessarily your fault. And people have like, there are subjective things to this, right? Like I had one person put like mountains on their number four, and it was really small, but the guy was like mountains. I was like, really? He's like, I like mountains. And I was like, well, you can't control for sometimes like that. And with the center screen, if you were already looking at the center of a screen, that could throw it off. That's exactly what it was. I was looking right at the center whenever it popped up, so. Exactly. Now you, thank you Omar. Nicole, you want to unmute? So I think what you did a very challenging one, Nicole, you did all texts, which is hard and similar colors. You dimmed this one, which was a good idea, made this one bigger. I think what hurt you on the number three was that numbers, if you would, I think you were probably about to put a background color behind the good, Nicole. And then that would have covered your number three, but because there's no background, it crashes and crashes make things harder to process. So you skip it. Yeah, I definitely did not finish on this. Yeah, it's totally cool. It happens all the time. But you got these two almost in the right order. It's almost perfect if Omar hadn't been looking in the middle of the screen already, which you can't control. So cool. You want to do the next one? Yeah. Don't worry about it. All right, Nicole, you ready? I'm going to pull one up and we're going to go. Ready? Let's see, go. Okay, so I definitely see the picture in the mountain and the cherry blossoms first. Cool. And then I saw the cherry blossom, like the bold one second. Cool. Obviously the who was the third. Yeah, it was right next to it. And then... Then at the bottom, the sloth. Exactly. That was, what was your order? Is it a shake or shake? Thank you, Nicole. I was going to... I kind of got mixed up. So I started from 40 to one. You went backwards. Did Nicole get it in the reverse? Yeah. Okay, cool. That still works. Yeah, that's cool. And then that's a beautiful image. And the mountains guy, I talked about what I love that. If you want to do the last one, and then I will look at everyone's. I know we don't have time to do everybody's, but I will look at all of them. And I really appreciate you guys trying this. I hope you learned something from the attempt. All right, you ready for the last one? We're going to try the experimental one. Just shout out what you see first. You ready? Okay. Okay. Go. I see the bananas first, and to the bananas, and then the sails, and then sails and love. Awesome. That was almost perfect. Brittany, thank you for attempting the hard one. Like this is... The idea here is that like, for words worth I read it in seals, seals love bananas, bananas. Like this is kind of like a poster layout, right? It's the idea here, but I'm going to try to experiment with it's harder, but this is kind of your challenge on a poster layout, right? You want people to like read maybe a takeaway up here. Maybe your methods are in steps, right? And then you kind of want to get the details later. So this is kind of like, that's the goal of this slide, but it's much harder. Good job, Brittany, on almost getting that. Cool. All right. All right. Let's move back to... Thank you, Shake. Cool. Good job, guys. I think I'm going to look through the recipes later today. We got to get back to the rest of the presentation now. Thank you. I hope you got the idea that you really can control people's eye movements more than you think you can. And that can kind of help you tell your story in the order that you want to tell it. And you'll notice now when you look at designs, anything, web pages, posters, presentations, whatever, that like good ones will control your eye. And if you know where to look first, it's kind of an indicator, but it's a good design. And if you're like kind of fine, if you're trying to like orient yourself too long, it's probably a bad design. And you can't blame the design. So that was Visual Hierarchy. Now it's time for our next game. I will meet a volunteer who plays video games. So probably someone who's played Mario. Let's see. Oh, I'm forgetting. I've played Mario. That's about the only video game. That's great. That's all that matters. Okay, perfect. You'll have to. Okay, can you make the Mario coin sound like the bing? Oh man, that's hard. So bing. That's perfect. Okay, cool. All right. I'm going to show you something and I want to make the bing sound whenever you learn something. Okay. All right, ready? Here we go. Oh boy. That was a big bing, I think. Yeah. Just tell me when to scroll. Okay, you scroll. Okay, you've learned anything from that first one? Not really. It's too much here. It's too much here. So when I look at these, and I don't know if I'm supposed to read like that. When I look at this on the screen, it's like a lot of words. It's too high interaction cost. Oh. You don't think so? Oh, it is. I had that feedback the other day. So I will try a different one. Let's see. Okay, try this one. Okay. Bing. There we go. Cool. Still long, but... Yeah. You could probably see, let's see, the shorter ones. Yeah. So pretty much all of these teach you something if you're invested the time to read it. Yeah, exactly. Right, exactly. Cool, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of funny that you were forging for information that the interaction cost was too high. Exactly. Bing. That one is really easy to picture. Yeah, there we go. It's very easy. Bing. Exactly. Yeah, that's really making a good case. Yeah, exactly. So you're going to these like low interaction cost things that they also teach. And so like they kind of have a high, this page has kind of like a high rate of return. Right? Especially the ones with pictures, right? You're kind of like learning as you go, especially the shorter ones. I'm gonna give you a new one. You ready? Yes. Okay. Go. Bing. Wait, really? Where? Deep learning and retinal, again, I went to the one that had the least amount of words. Oh, nice. And then, so usually, what did you learn from it? It's small. It is small. Yeah. So you can early detect glaucoma. That's the first thing I've got on this list. But you'll probably notice that if you read the rest of these, there'd be this like really, really conspicuous silence. And these are real poster titles. Actually, you found the one. I'm gonna have to eliminate that because you just broke the game. But I'm glad you found that. That's really cool. That is a great title because you gave something from it. The rest of these, a lot of our scientific titles, you could read this whole list and you'd never been, right? You'd be like, artificial intelligence applied for COVID-19 detection from pulmonary images. It's like, okay, I don't know what I learned from that or like a study on spectral properties with tilted FBG structure. What did the study find? Like what issue, you know what they did or whatever, but nothing changed about your worldview, right? And so a lot of times, thank you, Lana, that was the whole game. It's not a very complex game. It was perfect dates. So a lot of times you can read this whole list of scientific titles and not learn anything. So it's a really slow rate of return compared to something like Reddit or science where you're learning these quick hits of knowledge, especially with the pictures, especially with the little interaction costs you wanna find, right? So the idea here is that a lot of the stuff really, if you've heard of like the idea of like ROI and business, like return on investment, attention works the same way.  And when that rate of return slows down, people will just patch switch, just bail, right? And so we could be doing a lot more in science to increase that rate of return, especially with how much overload we have in science. So that's really what it all comes down to. That's the rate of return game. So a couple of examples of posters. We're in the last quarter here. So this is the first Better Poster, this Better Poster version 1.5 for physical conferences. The idea here is that it has a bunch of negative space so your eye goes straight to the middle, right? And you learn the main finding right away. So the idea here is that within five seconds of looking at this poster, you're already learning. So it establishes itself as having a high rate of return. As a big, generously sized figure, you can look at while you're talking to the presenter. And then it has this column over here on the left, right? And the idea here of putting it in the left is like, a lot of times we're in a poster session in person, like you don't wanna get in the person's bubble, the presenter, right? Cause you know if you like get too close to them, they're gonna wanna talk to you. I know that's really introverted of me. But like, you kind of wanna like learn more, but you're not ready for like a 30 minute conversation yet, right? So I put the sidebar kind of like far away from the presenter's personal bubble. So you can kind of skim it, you know, before you fully engage, right? And then when you do fully engage, the presenter has their own sidebar that they can kind of point the things in. And then you have a QR code you can scan and get a copy of the whole paper. That's the idea of the first better poster. Another physical poster layout, people will kind of want more space for figures and things. So there's another better poster layout. Right away, your eye goes to the top when you're in a bad mood at work, it distracts you, which lowers your performance. This has a couple of changes from the last design. So first of all, it's red. And like the idea is that a lot of times when you create poster designs and when you do presentations, you usually use like your school's branding color or whatever, like Michigan State green in my case. But like your school wants you to use your school's branding color. That doesn't actually help you communicate your research, right? And people have like an emotional processing channel and emotional working memory. So instead of using your school's branding stuff, try to pick colors and fonts and things like that that transmit an emotion that's relevant to understanding your study. So this is pretty lazy of me, but posters about bad mood and I made it red. Not super hard, right? We got it easy in social science, but in that case, but like any science can be made emotional. If you're studying a material, right? Is it hard? Is it soft? Is it new? Is it old? Like those are all things you can convey through the design. It'll help people kind of get it more quickly. Kind of like Yolanda with the picture helping like increasing that rate of return, right? Same deal with emotion. Emotion helps increase that rate of return. It's a really, really fast process, which is great to use. It's hard to do emotion through design, but trying is going to get you further than not trying and it's more fun. Has a big, big figure area. It's called like the hero figure layout. And the other thing I did with this layout is it moves the authors down to the bottom and the credits and stuff. And like usually in science, like the credits or the currency of science or whatever. And this really keeps the first author here at the top left with a picture. But the rest of the credits is sort of like when you're trying to learn from a poster, like the person's wearing a name badge. Like if you can't, you know, you'll talk to them or whatever, but like then you'll be able to get that. But like the names are often like the last thing to help you understand the study, right? They're almost completely irrelevant to your immediate learning goal. So I've kind of put them in an area like a movie credits on a movie poster, which I think makes more sense. And I do this with my own posters too. There's another one. This is called like the presenter. This is kind of like, this is sort of the most conservative, better poster. If you're not ready to cut so much, this gives you a lot of space for figures and methods. So you could call this like the party on the left business on the right, right? You've got on the left, you've got helping people create mental pictures, reduces cognitive load and boost comprehension. You're still learning in five seconds. It's got a visual of them like reading a text, creating mental pictures and then big graphs, right? The idea here is that when you're talking to somebody in a physical conference, like here's the presenter, I'm gonna be like looking at her, paying attention to her and then like glancing at the poster and back like that. So you need to like make the graph super big for scannability. And I try to put little punch lines, like a takeaway of this talk is to have takeaways, if you put punch lines at the top of each graph, summarizing it like this one, imagining the text as pictures was better than just reading, that speeds up that processing of the graph versus having to stare at this while the person's talking to you and be like, okay, mental imagery instruction, right? You can still do that, but it just speeds it up for people. That's another layout. These are just my examples. You can apply these principles however you can imagine. A lot of these examples came from people experimenting with that first layout, they're not even my ideas. So virtual posters are kind of a different animal because you have like shorter attention spans online, people are browsing from different devices, but I'm gonna show you a couple of examples that I've come up with for this that people have been trying to some success.  Try reducing the content on a traditional poster down to about less than one minute of content and try to do that thing like keeping it high rate of return, like speaking statements, always be teaching, right? Have takeaways for everything. And then from there you can have, I'm gonna show you the redesign in a second, but there are a lot of things we can cut on this poster for free without really reducing any detail. One of the things usually the freebie on most posters is to take like the institution, like literally like your eyes, like top left, Georgia Institute of Technology, that is the least relevant thing to this entire study, right? Like the most relevant is like the findings or the methods or whatever, right? So like take the credits and stuff and the names and just moving to the bottom, like movie credits, right? Which lets you make the title bigger. So that's one thing you can do. The other thing you can do is cut the references usually, like I've never used references on a poster. I don't know anybody who's used references on a poster and you can link to those things. You can link to like a supplement with the references, right? So that's a freebie you can cut. Then you can start cutting redundancy. So a lot of times in scientific writing, we're kind of trained to say the same thing four times, which I like as a scientist.  So like here, like in the abstract, it's like negative emotions impaired attention and performance and then hypothesis one, negative affect is related to decreased performance, conclusion, negative emotion hinders performance, results, negative affect is related to decreased performance. That's the same statement four times in four different areas, right? That's redundancy that waste cognitive load. So you can just collapse those things into one takeaway and that'll save you even more space. I think a lot of the tendency when you design these posters is to fill up space, but really try to think in terms of cutting it and leaving empty space for attention. So here's my redesign, mood effects, attention at work, like bing, negative affect is distracting, which lowers job performance, bing, and then you've got the detailed figure. I made these figures bigger because these are, figures are great for like diving into the details. People kind of look at them first so you make them really big, it's good. Positive affect promotes focus, which improves job performance, big figure you can dive into. And the methods, the original author did this great notional graph where it's like, we used an ESM design to survey mood and full-time workers four times per day over three weeks and she's got a little like, it varies and we did surveys as mood fluctuated. It's a really cool graph she did. And I think like, I made that bigger. And then I summarized the rest of the methods in this flow chart that just shows like how often they did the surveys and the analysis method. And you've got the authors and then online you can use literal links. You can have a button that links to read your paper. You can have links and PDFs. And this whole thing takes less than one minute to read and you learn a lot, I think this is just one attempt. But one thing you might notice is that like if you find yourself reading this and being like, it's too light, like I want more, right? That like feeling of having something left in the tank is what you use to go see other posters. It's the opposite of reading a poster and being fatigued and being like, I'm done. So it can help to have people sort of leave some in the tank to go see like lots of posters in the session. Another way to design is if you can break the rules is this new virtual poster concept I've been working on. And the idea here is you just create like five or six slides, one point per slide. And I'm going to show you how this works on a phone. So I'm going to show you the difference here. I clicked, pulled my phone back up. You guys get a break from me talking. So of course it pulled up my passcode. There we go. All right, I'm going to pull up my phone again. Hopefully it works. Here we go. Yolana, are we good? Okay, cool. Thank you. All right. Let's see. Okay.  So here is the traditional scientific poster on a phone. If you guys have done this at a virtual poster session, I'm sorry, like it's, you know how kind of miserable this can be, right? You're having to like pinch to zoom to read everything, right? It's really not optimized for this. But this new design, what you can do with it is you create what's called a scroll story, which is sort of, you just sort of learn and scroll, learn and scroll. It should be really familiar to you if you like a lot of websites use it. So it looks like this. Acetylcholine released in the BLA shifts earlier as animals learn about actions and cues that lead to reward. The novice animal releases ACH when they see the reward. Novice reward ACH goes up. And then just one point per slide. It completely fills the screen. You can just learn as you go. Graphs broken onto two slides. So you can explain it really clearly. You have a takeaway at the end. Thank them, link to other resources, your contact details. And then you're done. You go see other posters and it fits perfectly. And the other cool thing about this square format is that this exports really, really well to social media. So you can create one poster in PowerPoint, save it as a PDF for your conference. It's a scroll story, right? That works like this. Then you can save it as images, throw it on Instagram. Then you can save it as an animated gift, throw it on Twitter, right? So like you can get, you can maximize the eyeballs on a single poster without really a lot of extra effort is the idea. Couple conferences have tried this, like major corporate conferences and it's gone really well for them. So these are like the Twitter version, right? These are called Twitter posters. They're just little gifts of your research, right? Conferences have done entire conferences of Twitter posters. And some of these Twitter posters can get like 10,000 views on their own. Like I've seen like a little, like a group of grad students do Twitter posters and all their research in a thread with like a common hashtag. And like that hashtag goes viral, like their science went viral, which I think is really, really cool. So as you can see examples of this under the hashtag Twitter poster. So one last point, the most, before we get to the questions, the most common question I get is if we reduce detail, isn't it gonna lead to over claiming? People need to know all this stuff that's on the poster, right? If you take it off, then like, they're not learning the nuance, they could over exaggerate the findings. And there's an assumption baked in that, that you read everything on every poster, which is not really supported by the research that exists. I think it's probably conservative to say that 50% of poster content is never read. I think the realistic answer is that about 10% of poster content is actually read and they're not getting anything else. And that there's a threshold, right? There's probably a threshold where the more, you can put content on your poster to a point and if you overload people, they get nothing. They're just like up too much, you know, or whatever and they just ask you. And the perfect example of this is this, terms of service, right? We've all agreed to this. Like you've probably hit the agree button. This is the iCloud terms of service. If you have an iPhone, you've clicked continue to this a hundred times, right?  I can't tell you a single thing about like what I just agreed to. It's almost like a joke that nobody reads these, right? There's like a South Park episode where Cartman agrees to one of these ends up in like a human centipede or something. No, that's a little recording now. Anyway, but like, but like it's a joke, right? Like, if you know nobody reads these, right? And there's this new service called terms of service didn't read, but summarizes them for you. So if you look at iCloud and toss DR, you get something like this, right? A summary of the worst points in there. They can delete any of your data at any time without notice, I didn't know that. They can collect and use your location. They can collect different types of personal data. You won't sue them and they will gather your information through all the apps in your phone, not just theirs. I didn't know any of that before I read this. And I've clicked agree to that thing like a hundred times, right? So I got actually got with this little bullet point, some five bullet point summary. I actually got more information than reading this giant thing, right? And I got more of the nuance. And I think that's kind of the situation we're in with posters a lot of times, except that like, we're the lawyers. Like imagine, like, you'll never see this and you'll never agree to this, right? Like no lawyer will agree to use this probably because if you try to tell them to remove a sentence from this, we're like, well, they need it. They need everything. They need, like, I can't take a single word out. It protects us, right? And you do that with posters a lot, right? I can't leave one thing out because then they'll miss that they need that, right? When really they're not getting anything and they'll get more if you have less on there, which is better than nothing. The other thing is like there are things you can do to communicate the limitations of studies that are still fit the same principles, right? You can make the limitations lazy. You can have limitations takeaways. You can have butts and asterisks and you can even do things with images and positions and colors that influence that helps people take things with a grain of salt. There are a lot of things you can do there. And I think it's worth, the quick tip there is if you write your takeaways, writing is like 90% of the battle there. If you write your takeaways in past tense, like one study showed that it actually reduces the overexaggeration and it really works if you try it, just like we found instead of like this happens. So that's one thing. And the upshot is that if every poster was designed according to these principles, these are just some examples. If every poster in the room was designed according to these principles, you would be able to walk into a poster session of a hundred posters and learn a hundred things. You would be able to get, maybe not retain them, but you'd be able to get something out of every single poster in the room. And every scientist walking through would be able to get something out of every poster in the room inside of an hour instead of just like one or two posters and then leaving, right? That has a lot of upside and a lot of value. And it's gonna be a career-long goal for me to work on perfecting those trade-offs and things, but there's a lot to be gained here. And nothing's replicated. So like no poster design has really been proven fully yet. And so it's up to us to really experiment really wildly and learn what we can. So thank you, I've got videos and more cartoons on YouTube. Better poster part one is the big viral one. Better poster part two, I always say better poster part one's like the funnier one. Better poster part two is the smarter one. It has more of the citations and the principles behind it. It's still a cartoon. It's a whole cartoon on Twitter posters. And hopefully I'll have more cartoons after I finish probably pretty good on my PhD in two weeks. And I'll be able to get back to doing more design stuff because there's a lot of these to be fixed in science, just like articles and presentations too. So thank you guys very much for having me. I hope that was useful. Hope for questions. Thank you, Mike. That was awesome. And like you said, we'll just go into questions from here. Cool. Are we just asking? Are we typing, chatting? What are we doing? Dude, ask you already, talk and go for it. Thank you for pointing out the typo too. I've had that in like a, I've shown it to a lot of groups. I'm glad you caught it. And I'm sorry, I just, I had noticed it. I was- Oh no, please. No, no, it helps me.  I really did find this very helpful. I would, I had sent this out to many of my students and I know that there's one or two that are on this session. So I'm happy to see that. I would love it if, are these resources gonna be available to share? Can we share the YouTube presentations? Because, you know, I do a lot of judging posters, whether it was live sessions or now I do a lot of the virtual poster sessions and you're right that the judging fatigue and the review fatigue- Judging's harder. You know, people are like, what about the judges? I'm like, judges are more overloaded than regular attendees because they've got the guilt. Like you don't want to not read someone's poster and then judge it. You know, like it's, so it's like even more a problem with the overload. It is. And so, but what I feel like with cutting back and redesigning the posters themselves, a lot of your suggestions, I feel are truly helpful. I really liked the idea of, you know, having the scan code so that you could check more out or a link that you could go to to learn more about the poster. But I also feel like it's a conditioning for the students to put more onus on them in their actual presentation. Then relying on the poster because what winds up happening as a judge is you just kind of fade out into trying to understand, read all the texts, understand, especially if it's very technical and jargon and that's research that's outside of your compass. And I know that happens for a lot of people. So what are your suggestions for that? And can we share your training YouTube videos? Yeah, that's the easy answer. Share anything and everything. All of my templates that I've gotten so far in addition to some other people have created. So people have created a lot of like same principles, different layouts. Those are available in the open science framework. Their public domain, which means you can steal them, use them for anything. You don't even have to credit me.  But here's the, leave a blank space for me. But yeah, they always simple and serve available on the open science framework. I'll post this link in chat. And a lot of modifications that people has created. A lot of examples, a lot of resources are all in here. So yeah, go nuts with those, use them for whatever you'd like. Modify them like crazy, please modify them. And I think these are at like 250,000 downloads or something, which is insane. I've got a dog to let out. Well, I know there's a lot of older school faculty too that look at these posters or their mentors and they encourage the students to do the traditional, you know, you have your institution up top with all of the, you know, and so is there any, are there resources? I mean, I guess we could share these with those faculty as well and retraining them on how to guide students to creating posters. Yeah, I think the second Better Poster video is my go-to, Better Poster part two because it has the citations and the references which can be really helpful and the principles. I think it, we found that more experienced professors so far, we found it like both ways where like some of them can be more encouraged by this kind of stuff, which I think there's like a myth around like, oh, the old guard won't like it. It's like, no, it's not totally true. I've had like, we've had maybe the trend the other way. I think in terms of teaching it, it depends on how stuck on the tradition they are. If they're very stuck, this design actually, if it's up right now, it's probably the most well-liked with the first design, this original Better Poster. I think like 70% liked it, they're 25% hated it and 5% hated me personally. And then this one, it always goes that way on the internet. But like, this one, it's like not only to like 100% of people I've shown this to, like they're like, cool, I could get behind that one, right, but it's actually, this one's actually turned around people who hated the first one. They're like, that one I can do because it's got the methods, it's got the bigger figures. And part of that, I think it's just comfort with having more graphs and data on there. Like one of the things the traditional design does really well, like this thing communicates an emotion. And that emotion is like density and effort, right? And like, you don't read it maybe, but like you're like, that person puts an effort in it. But a lot of times you copy and paste it. And so like when you violate that, when it stops feeling dense and effortful, scientists can be like suspicious, right? Even though these communicate more, right? A lot of times more effectively. So that's the tension that's the vein of my existence right now for some people.  I'm like, what did it say? They're like, I don't know, you know? But yeah, so that is a concern. I really do feel like cutting back in, you know, the traditional, all the abstract and this and that, I think it really does push the student to be able to better communicate their research without just pointing to the section of the poster and being able to truly understand and possibly, like you said, teach a takeaway. If you get, my record is seven things. If you can like start with getting one thing and like a takeaway, if you can get two or three things in, you're a good designer. My all-time record is communicating seven things with my poster to most people and then they lost the rest. And like, considering we put like a thousand things on a poster, right? Like it's really hard. But yeah, start with a takeaway and you might be able to get takeaway and methods or takeaway and methods at a limitation before they even stop to talk or without even stopping. And that's the challenge. But we're at the beginning. Thank you. Sure, let me know if I could help otherwise. Feel free to, like, Yolanda's got my details. I have a question. Here we have it. Actually, I got a comment. I have two comments if you'd allow me. The thing is, the part of the posters that you've shown, they could be made in purpose because people know there's a lot of text. Nobody will read it. Nobody's asking questions. So they can hide stuff. Yeah, you can just read from the people that ask you questions, especially if you don't have any results. You just put everything. Nobody is reading. Nobody is just passing through and nobody is saying anything. I've never thought of that before. Yeah, but this works like that. This is the first thing. And the second thing, part of the things you just mentioned is said, you could avoid to say if you just explain what the poster is.  So if you make some pictures. So if you know the definition of word poster, you wouldn't do something like you are right now showing because it's not a poster. Speaking of my heart, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna give you a visual of this.  Like that's the case. They're not like- I come from Poland. In Poland, they taught us that poster is a picture. That's why you are standing next to your poster to explain all the pictures. Yep. I think that's a better way. Like it is like, it is like a, yeah, 100%. And I think like, I think a lot of times like, if you think of we have like posters and presentations and papers and science, right? If you wanna address an hour and something reading by yourself through a deep topic, you do a paper, right? If you want kind of an overview of an area, then you go to like a symposium, you get five presentations in an hour. We need something at that like quick, you know? And posters are almost set up that way already. It's like 50 in an hour. That's a good number, right? But we're not designing it to be processed that quickly and have, you know- Anyway, if you wanna really, I checked it. If you wanna really avoid questions, just make a poster like this and nobody will come to you. I 100% agree with that. Like this is the, and like, I swear to God, I thought that before when designing a poster.  And like, that was my first grad, first year of grad school. I was like, I'm nervous. I'm just gonna overload them. And they're like, oh, that's what this is. Like, I think like it's hard for non designers to relate to you sometimes. Like to me like, this is lazy, right? Like this is like, you just do any effort to cut it down, right? Or you spent four hours trying to get it to work when it was never gonna work. And I've been there, I've done all these things, right? But like these other designs, like the secret is that like, these newer ones can be harder. Like you spend more time figuring out that one takeaway, how to communicate emotion, how do you summarize a graph in one sentence or whatever, right? Like they look easier, but a lot of times you put maybe the same amount of time- You know, because making such posters with the pictures demands from you knowledge. And as I'm saying, if you don't have results, the best is text. Because nobody will ask you any question. Everybody can pass through and like, okay. Yep. Let's go to another one. 100%. You can avoid questions, you can just stand over there. You got posters in your CV. Nobody cares. Yeah, you got posters in your CV, that's all you want. I've got like a joke experiment I wanted to design where I put up posters in a poster session and then had people like go and stop and talk to the presenter and see how many people realize the presenter was talking about a completely different study. You know, and then like wasn't on the poster and I swear to God, it would work. Maybe I'll do that later on my call. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I have a question similar to kind of what both the, both for people who ask questions X is that science is very traditional, right, in scale. And we know we have this way of doing posters. Have you ever thought about any way to incentivize, incentivize students to kind of do both, right? Because we kind of got these posters that some professors, we're honest, they're just not going to let it go. It's going to be like, this is the way we do it. You know, and it's just always been done that way. And it's just how it is. Like you said, it's so archaic in some respects, no matter how much we move forward. Like I said, have you thought of any way we can incentivize them to say, no, this is really actually excellent because we can use it for other things. And I promise you, this is worth a while to learn this exercise and learn how to communicate your science. So the best way I know to do that, and this is really Pollyanna-ish of me is to give evidence, right? And so like the second butter poster video just tries to just like, here is every single citation and reference. I'm backing up everything I can say with evidence, right? And we're testing these designs to hopefully get some, you know, like some more evidence. I will say that somebody did an eye tracking study on this top left one, and I laughed when I saw the results. It was so effective and like, because your eyes just go straight to it. So I try that, but honestly, like what you're talking about is like, I can tell you as psychology PhD student, anytime you violate a norm, you get disgust, like, but from some people, right? It doesn't matter what the norm is. It's just like, there's different. This is doing, you know, violating the norm. And like, I think the best way to identify that is like the evidence first, but I think starting, I should have started more conservative, right? This is a very design-er-y thing for you to wipe the whole thing clean and do a minimalist one first, right? But I think maybe some of these more conservative ones that have a lot of graphs and figures or even just taking the traditional ones, shoving the authors to the bottom and creating the title as a takeaway, right? That almost looks the same. Like this one looks similar. Like this is a more extreme, right? But it's in the vein, right? Where people could be like, that looks kind of like my personal schema for a poster, right? Or whatever. Doing things like that, that are closer to their existing schemas can be more palatable. But I love to know the answer to that question. But it has recommendations because obviously it causes a lot of difficulty. Yeah, I actually have a question because I'm speaking from a perspective of a person that's not necessarily in the lab with student, but more of a resource that kind of helps students. Oh, sure. See the importance of, like we all know the importance of communicating science, but it's like, no, you should do this too, because it could be seen as if they do have a professor that's not as willing to try something different, it could be seen as a one-on. So it's like, no, I want you to do this traditional, but I want you to learn this too so you can learn how to communicate in a more effective way if possible. Worst case, sure. Yeah, sure. I feel bad for those students sometimes because I'm like, like as a scientist, your job is to experiment. And so like if a professor is like, don't experiment, I'm like, what the hell? But you know, I think, you know, like, yeah, I think you're ready like doing both maybe or trying one of them or conservative ones. I think the upshot is though, even if from a career perspective, like the first better poster ever, when no one knew what it was, before I'd even tried it, one best poster in the whole show, when it was just straight on as qualities. I think there are benefits to these. People win a lot of poster rewards with them. We're still studying the effects, so I can't really speak to those yet, but like you might get more stops if that's what you want, but you will definitely I think get people, more people absorbing your takeaways that walk past, which counts as impact. So yeah, it's a hard answer. Start with more conservative layouts, maybe try both if nothing else works in this heart, and I'll keep trying my part to try to build a case for this evidence-wise. Thank you, Mike. Sure. Thank you guys for coming, let's take it with me, I don't know, it's gone longer on the Q&A. I am on Twitter, so like after, after I hopefully defend in two weeks, I'll be saying again, and while talking to people about this stuff. Sorry we court you right before defense, I remember that time, that is not a fun- this was a nice break from that much more stressful, even than posters. Yeah, good luck, Mike. Thank you very much. Any other questions? I just wanted to know that this session, I know it's being recorded, will it be available? Absolutely, my plan is, I think Brittany and I both will have a record, we'll both have a recording, and I think my plan is to send it out to our EOD group, and hopefully circulate it from there, so that way everyone can have access to it, because like I was saying before you jumped on, a few of our colleagues in Guam and some of the other areas who can't be on it today, because of time zone issues, we wanna make sure that they have it as a resource. Awesome, thank you Elanda. And I'll try to add the link for the templates, as well as Mike Morrison's information and contact, just in case you guys wanna share something for his YouTube's and all of that, thanks to kind of like a one email. Can I have, can I ask one more question? Sure. Can you ever thought that actually, people are not changing the posters because people in general are lazy and they don't like changes? Sure, I'm that way, you know, like of course that's UX101, right? It's like if it's more, that's why I tried to make this one easier, like the first one, that's easier to create sometimes or it feels easier, so I knew if I could make it better and lazier, it would happen more, and I think that's what happened with the first one.  Especially scientists, they are lazy, that's why we are making science because we want to make our life easier, so we are lazy. That's how I feel about my science, it's like my job is to make you guys's life easier or whatever, but like, yeah, no, I think that is a huge variable. Effort is such an important variable that we don't, I think it's like an unspoken thing in science where we wanna pretend like everybody does the max effort, but like, things that are easier happen more. But you know, effort dies with age, I believe. Oh, like industriousness goes down as you get older or something. I think, I don't know, I have to look it up. It's a good psychology question, I have a friend I can ask that. Okay. That's a psych question for sure. I know conscientiousness and agreeableness goes up. You know, what I'm saying is just empirical, what I see doesn't have to be actually, maybe in my environment is like this, but maybe it's not the same for a whole world. Oh, like maybe openness and like willingness to try new things or something. Yep. Like it's the openness going down. I don't know. But again, I've seen some of the best, better posters have come from like the oldest professors who are just like, I know how to communicate everything perfectly in a sentence or whatever, because I'm a rock star. This is not called effort, this is called experience. That's true. That's very true. I don't know. I'll look into that. It's in my area, which means I won't speak freely on it, I won't just hide back, I'll have to go with that up, you know? Thank you. Yeah, sure. Thanks, Mike. Thanks everyone for joining us. Yes, thank you guys. In a few days or so, you shall get a nice survey in your inbox. Please respond so we can know if these type of webinars are useful to you all. And if there's suggestions on other things, we can host that. We'll be helpful for you. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, thank you. Thank you a lot for organizing everything. Thanks everybody for coming. Thanks, Mike. You're such always such a great presenter for us. Thank you. Thank you. You're the best. Thank you. You're great. All right, so I think I'm gonna go here and cut it off. I think everyone is jumping off basically. Thanks, Mike. Have a good day. You too. See ya. Bye.