Hello, welcome to TA Made Simple and with me is transactional analysis Bob Cook and he talks about kind of aspects of transactional analysis, the theory, make it simple, make it straightforward and we're going to talk about the first session in TA, the opening of the curtains of the therapeutic theatre, Bob.  So in the first session, once you've said hello of course and the person sit down, if that's what they want and they start talking to you, you're going to be thinking about how much energy the person spends in different parts of the self. So for example, how much energy they come from when they're coming from their parent part of themselves, which is to do beliefs, the shoulds, the ors, the musto in the world, how much energy they spend staying in the here and now, which will be the adult, and how much energy they spend being stuck, if you like, or in their younger self, which could be many different ages, but I'm just going to say the younger self, which is a child ego state, because most problems people come with is when they are actually coming energetically from different parts of themselves, which aren't centered in the here and now. So they're tempted to solve problems from either the past or the future. So you start as in the first session, a TA therapist or somebody is coming from that vague, we'll be thinking about which part of the self is the person coming from, and how does that, you know, what does that process say in terms of the problems they've come with? It's interesting to talk about, because in the last episode, we talked about egograms, which is a way of measuring the energy within the ego. So you meet a client for the first time, you've said hello, you've got past a lot, you've presumably done some form of contract, and then you're asking the client, you know, what brought you here, and as you're listening, you're assessing where they are, they are they in the past with issues that fall in over in the past, or they're stumbling into an unwritten future? Yeah, which is usually dictated by some type of parent, whether it's an overwhelming nurturing parent, which is sort of infantilizing the person, called the negative nurturing parent, whether it's from the critical parent, which usually is defining them. So they come usually from a child oriented place. So it's about looking at the mediation, if you like, between the different parts of the self, and how they get stuck in one of those places, and how that doesn't help them today. Give an example of someone who was maybe stuck in the past, how may they present, what would you somebody comes to you, they say, what I'd like helping from you is I find it very hard to be myself when I go to interviews. Right. So when I go to interviews, I find myself being very childlike, or find myself stumbling over more words, or find myself thinking that the people who are interviewing me are out to trap me, or they're out to trick me, or they're going to actually ask me questions, which make me feel that I'm stupid. And I suppose you might call that slightly paranoid or not. But when that happens, I feel like I'm a 13 year old, being hyper vigilant around my parents. Yeah. I find it hard to suit myself in that process, and I get stuck in the past, and I'm unable to think clearly, and feel very confused. And I really want you to help me be clear so that I can actually pass my interviews. Right. Okay. So that's the example of someone who's in the presenting past. What about someone who's stumbling over an unwritten future? How may they present? Hyper vigilance. So somebody who comes and says, you know, I find myself always trying to work out how someone's going to be. So in relationships, you know, I've only had three or four relationships. My last one only lasted about six weeks. And the reason it is, is because I am always, always hyper vigilant on the edge, trying to work out what's going to happen in the future, what's how they're going to be. And you know, often catastrophize. Well, I'm sure there's nothing to catastrophize about. But I am stuck in this hyper vigilant, trying to work out the future, trying to work out what they're thinking, feeling, or being. And I go nowhere. And I find it very hard to trust people. Right. Yeah. So that's a really interesting thing. And which part of the ego state would that come from? That would come from the child. But it's an attempt to work out the future in a safe, predictable way. So they are still in the past, if you like, but it's an attempt to work out the future. Yeah. And I suppose within that, part of that could be trying to work out what a parent would want. Yes, absolutely. So again, it's really from the past, but they are attempting to work out what the parent wants. So their future is different. Yes. Yeah. So this interesting, once you explain that, I'm sure there'll be a lot of people watch this, including me, who go, hmm, I do that. The most common aspect in the first session is to work out like we are doing now, which part, which ego state they're coming from, and to think that this is the next business really important, how the past is affecting the present here. Yeah. So in other words, how the decisions that they've made about themselves and the other people, yeah, influences them how they are in the present. That's a really important, you know, aspect of all psychotherapy. Transaction analysis is a name for this. And that's script theory. So we talked about this before, but it's the idea that we create our own life plan, which we're going to call script here, early in our childhood, in reaction to what's going around them, usually the significant other people or parents. You create your own live plan, how the world is, how other people are, how you are, make central decisions, and you manipulate or put it onto the present to get the same outcome, which usually is the problem they come with. So you think ego states and you think script, which, so you're looking for the enactments of how the past via scripts, if you like, like I've just explained, gets put onto the present and isn't helping them and they need life enhancing way. So already you've really outlined in the initial interview, I guess, the structure, you built a structure of what, how, where the therapy, which direction the therapy may go in, and the interventions that a therapist would use. Yeah, so you might, towards the end by the way, wrap it up like, you know, in terms of what's happening, you know, what's, what the problem is, and it's usually the past affecting the present and what ego states there, and you might not get through all this in one session, but you usually wrap it up 10 minutes before, so you don't leave them stuck in their parent or child, that they're the right age they should be, because they might be going outside the door and getting into their car, and they don't want to get in their car, a 10 year old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, important this in terms of to ego states, is that we make sure that they're coming from their here and now by making sure they're grounded, so you usually need about 10 minutes to be able to do an overview, round it up, and you might even say, you might even, that 10 minutes talking about more specific contacting. The most important thing is, when you do an overview and wrap it up and say where you're going to go next time, or however you're going to do it, that you make sure that they're in their adult ego state in the here and now and not stuck in some child or parent process. Yeah, so that can happen, you know, certainly with clients with trauma. I've seen that happen in my practice where you all of a sudden realise that the 50 year old person sat in front of you is actually chronologically 50 years old, but actually emotionally is eight or three. That's absolutely true, and also that they don't get stuck in their parent ego state, so they don't go outside the room in a very angry parent telling themselves off, or in fact shouting at other people outside the room. So it's really important that in the overview and wrapping up, it should take at least five minutes if you want 10, you allow them to come back to the here and now and if you can't and if you feel they are stuck, you direct them by adult questions. Yes, what kind of questions would those be, Bob? But it wouldn't be, I'll tell you what it wouldn't be. Okay. How are you feeling? No. For example, you wouldn't ask emotional questions. No. You're going to ask cognitive questions. Yes. Yes. Tell me, what have you got from the session today? Yes. So you're thinking questions here and now, you're sponsored. Thinking questions. Yeah. And what will you take away from this session? Thinking questions.  And that will bring them back into the here and now. You do not ask them feeling questions. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I come from a humanistic background. And I would certainly, in my session, exactly the same way. Yeah. Yeah. As a grounding and returning to, sometimes I used to, when I taught, I used to call it returning to the world. So you might go through this roller coaster of different, different emotional ages in the therapy room. But as you come to the end, then you're absolutely right, Bob. You know, the safe way of working is to bring them back to the reality that they're going to be engaging in when they walk out of your door. Yeah. So the NTA model, they're in the adult eager state. Yeah. So the first session, you might be looking at eager states, the fragmented tripartites, you know, different parts of the self and how they wore, for example, you may help them look at how they are bringing forward ideas from the past, which doesn't help them in the present. And you may do some contracting. However, in terms of safety and protection, they need to be in their adult, just as you've just said there, when they leave the door. Absolutely. And I think, I think that's a lesson to any therapist, really, no matter what Modell would say, your practice is that you cannot have clients leave in, in a, I mean, sometimes that does happen. Sometimes you will get clients who just go and no matter what you do, they, they're very distressed. But by, by having a strategy as you could bring the session to an end of safety and security. Yeah, they leave in a place where they can't use themselves. That's right. You're right. It's not, you know, I'll give you two tips. One, all that, you know, whether it's Gestapo, whatever it is, you finish 10 minutes, start wrapping up 10 minutes before the hour or 55 minutes or 50 minutes, whatever you work from. That's, that's a really good one. Another one of which I like is you do your admin at the end. I'm not talking about, you know, some people like taking money at the beginning, fine, but I'm talking about diary form. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The end of that will bring them into the adult. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Valuable insights, Bob, into that first session from the, from the observational skills that therapist draws on, that links to theory, and then, and then links into questioning, curiosity, intervention. And then right at the end, every session to come to the check and bring them back into the adult ego state. Just, just a bit of a master class really in, in, in competent practice, Bob. That's right. Especially in the first session and I think with you and I know, know whether you're, you know, a seasoned professional in a way, but certainly for trainees, they need to leave themselves five or 10 minutes to wrap this all up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if there's a takeaway from that and anybody's listening, maybe a trainee is listening, you know, think about what Bob said about, you know, using factual information right at the end and don't do what, don't make the rookie mistake I've seen lots of therapists do when I've been training them where they've come to them and they've got, is there anything else you want to talk about? Oh, oh, God, did you hear my sign of a groan there? Well, you know, it is a, it is a sign of kindness and concern, but as I say, well, what happens if they start talking? What, what are you going to do?  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there we have it. You know, opening session in CA if you're, if you're a CBT therapist, maybe, or if you're a personal sensitive therapist, really interesting comparative information here, if you're doing an assignment, and also some generalized information for any modality, how to ground the client so they feel safe in the world or safer in the world when they go out. So Bob Cook, thank you very much.