Run it up, do run it back. Run it up, do run it back. Run it up, do run it back. Good morning. It is Tuesday here at Vandal TV. And this is Run It Back, a show about hoops, all the hoops. What are you laughing about? My name is Tom. So we don't talk about hoops at all until right now. Yeah, we don't. Well, we were trying to figure out if the lotto is real or not. That was the big topic of discussion this morning. It's not. And it's not. Lou, Chandler, Michelle, Shams joining us. There it is. Wow, now you're like a day into your, what is it, 30th year? Yeah. How does it feel? Now I'm really old. You know, someone told me today we're all as young as we're ever going to be and we're as old as we're ever going to be. So that's my motto for like the rest of our life. While you're hanging around some. I heard that yesterday. Wise words. That is well said. Great. Chandler's impressed. What do you have later? We are going to start with some hoops, but we're going to take a turn today because the one thing everyone can agree on is we were all watching the women play last night.  It lived up to it. LSU, Iowa. It was the big rematch. Would things be smooth? They were. But Caitlin Clark, if you had doubts about who she is, she had 41 points on the night, you guys. And it was quite fun to watch. And most anticipated game, not just in women's, I'd say across the board. Like I don't care about any of the men's games as much as I did about last night. What did you think about her performance? This was unbelievable. And I'm ashamed to say this is the first time I've ever watched. I said an alarm. I wouldn't say that. I said an alarm to watch this game. I was so excited to watch this game. And it was unbelievable. First of all, the way both of them play, the way Caitlin Clark can shoot the ball, can pass the ball, the way she sees cutters back door. And then on the other side, Angel Reese, the way she dominates inside and block shots. It was one of the most exciting games I've ever watched. And it was so much fun. It's great for their game. It's great for the sport. And they've single-handedly put this sport on the map. And it's awesome to watch. And I'm excited for the Final Four. And I can't wait to see the future of this sport because, man, it's different watching her. She gives me the same feeling. I said this sport. She gives me that Steph Curry feeling. Because she's shooting from, like, half court. She's dropping no looks. She's throwing full court passes. She's shooting from 35 feet. It really is fun to watch. Did you watch? Oh, you were at Universal. Did you get to see any? Yeah, we were on our phones. Nice. Yeah, we were on our phones. I was with my daughter. And she was really locked in. But to piggyback off of what Chandler said, to be a part of women's basketball, coach women's basketball, it's a great time to be a fan of these young ladies. You know, from the Juju Vikings, from the Angel Reese's to the Flau Jays, the Kalen Clarks, the Paige Beckers, Adi Crooks, Cameron Brink. It's so many different women that are making a name in the college basketball world. It's going to make the game so much stronger than the young ladies that's coming up. So it's exciting to see the excitement around the women's basketball game. And you know what? I'll say this.   So I hope they're watching this because they don't deserve that. This is great what they're doing. And it's so much fun and so exciting. So I hope you guys can continue to change and continue because you are changing the game right before our eyes. I love it though because it's a rite of passage.    So congratulations ladies. Y'all are doing an amazing job and I look forward to more trash talk. I love it. I wonder because you just rattled off a list of names. Can you do the same for the men's game? Absolutely not. I can't. Like right now I can't. DJ Burns. I mean I can but it's crazy. That's what I'm saying. Like the level that Caitlyn Clark is, she's in the league of her own. You're seeing her now. It's all deserving. She's in the State Farm commercial. She's on national ads. She's getting offered these $5 million offers. Who knows if that's real or not. She's become such a household name because she's so exciting to watch and it's different and she's in the league of her own. Now I don't think we should make it a competition with the guys and girls and something like that but I think it's both, it's great for both of them and March Madness in general. It's really cool that Yukon, both teams are going to the Final Four. That's crazy. NC State, both teams are going to the Final Four. It's just awesome and it's great for both sports. I think the difference between the women's game and the men's game. The men's game, you can go G League, you can go one and out, you can be one and done, you can go overseas, you have all these different outlets. On the women's side, you watch them from freshmen to seniors because they can't leave until after their third year. You actually watch the growth. You watch a star's born. Like imagine if Caitlin Clark leaves after her freshman year, we don't get all of these moments. Now she has an opportunity to, she has an opportunity to go get all of these records and we can watch her build and we can watch these rivalries be born as well. You know, we had an opportunity to see LSU versus Iowa in a rematch where it went Iowa's way. You know, so the women's game, they have it figured out, salute to them in the college world. The men's, we still got some work to do as far as infrastructure. I know the NIL is throwing things off a little bit on the men's side, but on the women's side, it looks like they got it figured out. And even going back to last year with the Angel Reese going, I love that. I'm good with that. This is part of the game. That is the theater. If someone did that and men's college hoops or someone did it in the NBA, we would love them. We would praise them.  Yeah, they're competitive. And they've created storylines. They've created excitement around games. It's creating a buzz and an audience that they've never had before, which is awesome.  And that's their own personal issue and it is what it is. But Shams, you know, the Steph Sabrina thing during the All-Star weekend arguably was a highlight of the entire event. Are we going to get more of that? Seeing how hype and how hot this women's game is right now. At this point, Steph and Curry versus Sabrina Yinescu is very likely for next year. And next year's All-Star weekend, guys. It's going to be in the Bay Area in San Francisco at Chase Center in 2025. And I'm told with Katelyn Clark and potentially Clay Thompson to make it 2v2. Steph and Curry, Clay Thompson and his splash brother. I'm told Steph Curry is specifically brought up potentially having Clay Thompson in this competition for next year. Could a guy like Damien Lillard be a candidate as well to join Steph Curry? But those two guys potentially against Sabrina Yinescu and Katelyn Clark, those are all conversations that are going to continue to go on in the coming months. And as we get into the 24-25 season, I'm curious from Chandler and Luz's perspective and also you, Michelle, who would you want to see with Steph Curry? Does that mean it's going to be a warrior? And do you think it should definitely be Sabrina Yinescu and Katelyn Clark? Yeah, it's a little dicey warrior. I mean, no, those would be the two I'd want to see. And even Sabrina, think about this year how she lost, but she was unbelievable. She beats 99% of the guys that she shoots against this year, not named Steph Curry. So I think looking back to All-Star Weekend, that was my favorite event. So yeah, I would love to see it more. The girl from USC, she's a freshman, she can't leave, but she's nasty. She's fun to watch. She's only a freshman. That's crazy. It's crazy. So yeah, I would love to see this. To Clay and Steph thing would make sense with these two girls. But yeah, it was my favorite part of All-Star Weekend last year. Same. I wouldn't mind it. I wouldn't mind it to see a lot of these young ladies involved. And if the NBA and the WNBA can figure out a way to infuse more, even they can do the skills competitions. You know, even in the years past, you've seen WNBA players do the skills competition where it was a... Oh, they did teams. Right, teams. There was a legend involved, a young lady from the WNBA and a current player from the NBA that represented organizations. I did it. I did it in Houston. It was like me, Kenny Smith and Witherspoon, I think. Really? Yeah, someone. Theresa Witherspoon. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. There you go. She would do the passing and then you'd kind of alternate. This would be really... This is good. I think Steph and Sabrina, they did a great job of introducing it and it should only grow from there. I love this for us. This is going to be exciting. We did get some NBA hoops last night. Obviously took a back seat. But Sons Pelicans, goodness gracious Booker. 52. Sons win. 124. Look at this. Pelicans now with the one game lead over the Sons. That's interesting, by the way. Nurkic finished with 19 and 19 rebounds. Zion had his 30 points. But the 52 from Devin Booker, third straight 50 point performance against this Pelican squad. I've asked this and I wish I could understand the science behind it more. But there are just some teams that do what? Bring something out in you or is there a matchup issue? What is this? Well, this is, he said after the game, this is the closest arena to his hometown. So he has 40 plus people there. So that might play a factor in his family seeing him play live in person. They don't get to see that. But also Willie Green is saying that this is embarrassing. They defended him soft. There's no way someone can get 50. And Lou knows, if someone has a game on you, the previous game, and they give you 40, 50, 60 points. What's wrong with you again? You are watching so much film. You are making adjustments. You are fouling him, double-teaming him, throwing the kitchen sink at him. So the fact that he's done it three times in a row is one of the crazier stats that I've ever seen. And then being in New Orleans probably doesn't matter because I'm sure one of three of these games were in Phoenix. Yeah, no, exactly. He likes the Pelicans. If a team allows you to get a rhythm, you can't wait to play them again. That's one of the games you're going to circle on a calendar. But they don't want to throw a double team. They don't want to trap him. You're going to leave Kevin Durant open? Yes.  This guy's got to leave base for another 50 ball. Yeah. I'm not letting him give 50 again. I mean, look at that. Three fifties is incredible, but at the end of the day, that's the point of this Phoenix Suns team. You have to guard them honestly because they got two more guys that can give you the same exact 50 that Devin Booker has. And so it creates match-up problems for them. But it feels like they're not... 52 points is 52 points. Yeah. I would try to just... I don't know. It just feels like why... I'm taking the ball out of his hands if he's cooking like that. But again, you're going to take it from his hands and you're going to put it in another guy's hands that can literally do the exact same thing. But I'm taking my chances to see what happens because three in a row, it's three in a row. But I don't think that's really... Like once you're out on the floor, it's not even a thing. Do they play again this year? Because I need to see the next continent. They do play again this year. There's no chance. Because if Willie Green is specifically bringing it up... We'd probably say that after the second 50. We probably did, actually. Yeah.  You watch it. You can't... The tape never lies. There he goes again and there he goes again. So does it... Is there something they should be... Should they be running their offense through him more often or is this a specific Pelican's issue with Booker? Well, this is the luxury of their team that Lewis talked about. Who are you going to stop? Double team him. Then Bradley Beal can go and get 50. No one's even talked about Nurkwich at 19 and 19 last night. Grace and Alan's having a career year this year from three. So they have so many weapons that it's impossible just to... Okay, let's stop Devon Booker today. Let's take the ball out of Bradley Beal's hands. He's been the most inconsistent of the big three Bradley Beal, but he's been dealing with a bunch of injuries and he's going to figure it out. But yeah, with this kind of offensive firepower, there's no right answer. He's got to hope they're off and make this and say their game plan was probably to stop Kevin Durant. Yeah. Because when you game plan for teams, the point is to stop something. We're going to take something away. Kevin Durant is the best player on that team. They probably said, listen, tonight we're game planning for Kevin Durant. Take one. Yeah, we're going to take things away and Devon Booker took full advantage of it. Well, it ruined my prop party contribution. Oh, I actually had sons. Yeah. Zion over. I'm trying to figure out how to fix it. Yeah. I'm trying to figure out one thing. The son's inconsistencies like they play Denver so well. They have a big win on the road there. They have a big win on the road in New Orleans. They needed that one. But then in the middle, you have losses to San Antonio. Yeah. Without Big Romaniano, you have a loss against Oklahoma City without Shay. Like what? Like why? I don't understand inconsistencies. Is it just not waking up for those teams? What is it? I mean, honestly, the season is so long. You're not going to be perfect, right? You're going to have bad games. You're going to have teams that just can't miss against you that night. You're going to have blown covers. You're going to have off nights. And I feel like this team with their talent, with their roster, they should have less of those. And they don't. And they've had Bradley Beale in and out of the lineup, which has hurt because we've been waiting for this big three all season long. We've barely got a little taste of it. We've seen the Nuggets on the road. This is why they are that scary team because we've seen them do it before. We always talk about it. We haven't seen Oklahoma City do it in the playoffs. We haven't seen Minnesota do it. We've seen these guys do it. We've seen these guys play on the biggest stage. We've seen these guys make multiple All-Stars in all NBA teams. So they have the resume, which gives us more comfort, you know, when we make our picks on why. But it is, it's crazy because this is a team that is deep. This is a team that is defensively. So they should be in a lot better position than they are. And we, and again, we talked about it yesterday with OKC, confidence and chemistry, right? Even though on paper, this should be a team that's dominating the NBA and dominating the Western Conference. This is that first year together. You know, when you add in a Bradley Bill and Kevin Durant coming over last year, this is going to be something that's going to take time. Obviously, we're going to be a little bit more impatient and dominate. But think about the teams that's been building for years now. OKC has been putting that team together. Denver has been putting that team together. You know, the Boston Celtics on the East, that's been a team that's been consistently together and you're starting to see the fruits of that. And so maybe we should be a little bit more patient with this Phoenix Suns team. But, you know, they're in a position right now with so much talent, they're forced to be a part of the championship or bus crew of teams. And then they're gone. And then they're so like, with a team like this, it's like they're all in their prime or past their prime. How patient can we be? Because we only have a small window of how these three could be playing together. So hopefully they continue to play. Hopefully there's no moves this off season because this team has the potential to be very, very good.  Like he's in it for the long haul. I don't know if the players, I guess we're looking at the players at that point. Do you want to be moving around? Right now, 44-31, we talked about seventh. They're a game back. Do you think they have enough, and by the way, their schedule is the Pelicans, the Cavs, the T-Wolves twice, the Clippers twice. Good Lord. Then the Kings. I know they got one of the tougher endings to their season. But do they have enough to push forward into that six spot? I think they stay put. I just hadn't seen the consistency that I would like to see this team have to say that they're going to go out with the strength of schedules that they have left, and they're going to go into that six spot when the Pelcs have been doing their thing consistently. I say they stay put right there, but I don't think the play-in is going to be a challenge. But for them to win one game, I think they'll be fine. What's interesting, if they make the play-in, they'd rather the eight seed than the seven seed so they can play Oklahoma instead of Denver in that first round. So that would also be a little tweak there. But the only thing they have on their side right now is health. Sacramento Kings, they're out. So you'd think they'd have a little slippage. And then with the Pelicans, Brandon Ingram, he's still out. So those are two teams that they are chasing that do have some health issues. But like you just said, their schedule is not very favorable for them down the stretch. But those are the teams. It's a good test that they get that type of strength of schedule right before the post season. So that should help them. But I think they're not worried. I think they think like I do, that they can beat anybody in a series. So who cares? That would be an epic first round series Denver, Phoenix. They brought up Brandon Ingram, Shoms. The team is about 500 basically since he went out. Any shot of getting him back for the postseason? That's the hope. That's what the Pelicans are hoping for. Brandon Ingram is going to be re-evaluated at the end of the week. That'll be the two-week mark. And the hope is by that three-week mark next week, he's going to be back in the lineup. But with the bone bruise, you have to be careful. And also, for the playoffs, for the playing tournament, but I mean, just looking at the standings there, like we're going to see a lot of movement this next couple weeks. It's going to be fun. Tie breakers, I feel like, are more involved this year than any other year. Actually, remember them all at this point. Shoms, love you, mean it. We will see you tomorrow when we come back from your Charlotte Hornets. And former spur, Davis Bertons joins the show. Great beard. Great beard. And so many books. What's happening? I don't think he's where he is. Eight year vet place for the Charlotte Hornets right now. Here he is. Davis Bertons rocking the sweet-ass beard. Lou, you want to solve the mystery before we can move on? What's going on here? That's not a library. Yeah, he's not in a library. Are you an avid reader, though? Actually, no, I probably should have gone with a different one. Big book on tape.  You got so many books, although they do look like they could be children's books. I don't know. I don't know what's going on, Davis, but I like this for you. Look, you guys played the best team in the league last night, and yet, here you are. I only bring that up to point out, Chandler would have called in sick and played golf all day. We appreciate your professionalism. But we just heard your nickname in that clip, Latvian Laser. A, it was given to me, I guess, by the Spurs announcers. Bill Land? Yeah. Nice. And it's my first year already, and it kind of stuck after that. And I would say, I'm not going to say it's the best nickname in the league, but I would say one of the top 10 probably if it would go through.  There you go. Davis, I'm reading this for the first time here. Is it true you only have four and a half fingers on your shooting hand? Whoa!  Wow! Well, the very short version is, I was like 12, 13 years old, grandfather needed wood for heating. We come from a really small town, like 3,000 people. Like everybody knows everybody by their first names. And, yeah, needed heating. And it was me, my brother and my dad were cutting wood. Unfortunately, and the short story is just, I ended up on the wrong end and it started raining, started rushing, and they kind of got on there. But I still, like even though, you know, it's a little bit of a lucky situation, I was lucky that I didn't lose also the middle finger because I kind of nail off of that as well. Wow! Is that the finger for a wedding band? That's smart. Well done. Oh, no, it's the other hand. Oh, you, okay, you did it right.  Me and my brother were basically born in a basketball gym. So, I was playing the basketball since I remember myself. So, you know, at that point, my dad was the one that was like, since he played and coached and did all of that. Like, he was the one all basketball is over. You know, I was like, I didn't even think about it. Wow. Dad, calm down. That's crazy. You, you started this season with OKC before being traded at the deadline over to Charlotte. What was it like building with those young guys and did you see the potential of this team possibly being who they are now? Definitely. You know, coming in didn't really know much to expect in our young team. You know, during the season they didn't really win much before we get traded. We haven't done much of winning since the trade as well, but I think it's improved a little bit, yeah, I didn't know what to expect much, but all these young guys, you know, they work their butts off every single day and our guy like Miles didn't know him before. And I was really, really pleasantly surprised. Great guy. He's really, really working hard. I can't say much else about that. And the same thing with Brandon, you know, he's a rookie, but he can hook and, you know, if he listens to the older guys a little bit more, we can help him a little bit with the other stuff, you know, the basketball part is all great.  What was that adjustment like? You know, that's a stick with both, with two ends, you know, and one thing is going to the team from one that's aspiring to win a championship this season and playing really great, but, you know, how far at the end of the bench I was, the other side is coming here to Charlotte and getting to play basketball. You know, I don't think you'll do it not so much probably, but Chandler at one point, you know, with all the injuries, like, you know how it is not to play and just be around the team and wanting to be on the court, it's really tough, so I'm just happy to play basketball again. And the longer off-season, I look on the bright side, though. No, there it is. They're always fine on the bright side, Chandler P. Light at the end of the tunnel. There's always something there. All right, you recently took the shot to the nose there.   Do you feel it? Do you ignore it? What is it? You know, for the shooting part, it's not a full problem. You know, you see the hoop easily, but I think the problem is, since I'm not that good of a ball handler, if I got to put it on the floor, if I can't see, like, it just feels like I can't see nothing below. And, you know, that's going to help improve my ball handling, but it's also a little bit tougher for me. I guess, yeah, it's like having blinders on. You can't really see anything. A few nights ago, the Hornets broadcasters were discussing your level of toughness. Here they are. Playing with a mask for the first time this season, he got hit in the schnoz on Wednesday against Cleveland. He didn't even realize it because he continued to play. That's how tough he is. Suffer than Woodpecker Lips, apparently. He is. Okay. Yeah, let's put a... By the way, this announcers class. Are you tougher than Woodpecker Lips, Davis? What does that mean? Well, I guess Woodpecker Lips, well, beak, more likely. Yeah. So that's pretty tough, right? Yeah. It doesn't really get much tougher than that. I've never heard that saying. But actually, I didn't realize during the game that I've probably broken because it cracked and I felt like a little like something on the side. So I just, I just walked over and they asked me if I want to go check it in the back. I was like, well, like, I can breathe, so it's fine. Anything. Yeah. At all. Like it's a little bit crooked. Like usually it's like, you know, I'm not the best looking guy, but usually I look a little bit better. No. I feel like we look great. Davis, a few years ago, we've seen a lot of players that got upset with Ronnie over there at 2K with about their, their player rating. Have you ever talked to him about that and has it since changed now that you're on the floor a little bit more? He's still, still hating. I really couldn't care less to be honest. I'm good. Wait, do you guys really care about that? Absolutely. So you check it and then complain. Yeah.   There we go. He's never hooped before, never played. And he's like, you're only a buzzer. I'll listen to somebody that comes up to me that says that he made 53s in a row and then I'll maybe listen to him. There you go. Not this. There you go. Wow. Okay. My ranking was as high as it should have been too. Was it not good? No, I'm kidding. I have no idea what it is. The shooting, you got it. But every once in a while you'll throw it down and people seem to still be shocked online when this happens. Even teammates seem to be shocked, which I find to be a little bit insulting. Yeah. It doesn't happen to all. Look at him. Why are they still surprised? I mean, is this insulting to you? Because when you're the stiff, it's out of their chair when you slap glass on a layup and it's done. He says ten. Of course he can dunk. Davis, does this bother you that people are shocked? Is this the last time you dunk? Because I'm in this clip. Is this the last time you dunked a basketball? No. That was like four years. I actually got it dunked this year also. All right. There you go. I think I got two of them. Yeah. Do you feel, I mean, Chandler likes to point out. Oh, I remember towards the end of my career they went nuts.  I think you should do it more. No, no, they get hyped if I dunk on somebody. That's, that's where everybody goes crazy. If I do it by myself, I'm like, I should be able to do it even, you know, close to retirement. Yeah. I think people get excited for y'all dunking for a different reason than they were getting excited. It's because we're white. Because it's so white, Lou. Oh, God. I get to pick up race and everything. You came into the NBA as an international prospect from Latvia, obviously, and you were drafted in 2011, but you didn't play in the NBA until 2016. Oh my. How did that time playing overseas prepare you for when you got to the league? Since I had a really, really great, but he was also very crazy, you know, well-known coach, Serbian coach, Dirk Kovryoshevich. And those were two seasons where I had to miss 10 months in the middle with the ACL injury, which I got my first full year there in the last game of the final series. And then it was the ACL rehab. But yeah, with that coach, that was what probably prepared me the most for whatever challenges that might have coming along. And, you know, six hours, seven hours a day of practice, that split into practices usually. And some of those, well, me and Bogdan Buidano, which we couldn't leave the gym after the morning shoe rounds, until we made 10-year-old coming off screens and then he would just come up with like some stuff like, you know, wearing gloves, taping the dominant eye shot. Like it was, it was ridiculous, you know, having another coach with a broom just contesting extremely high. And I think, I think going through all that with him being, you know, Serbians, they like to cuss and really, really get into like personal insults. Oh, wow. And all that is like, at the end of the day, it's like, if a coach now and then be a custom out, like, you know, I'll take the message, but it just really does not faze me even for a little bit. That's like the perfect prep, because then in 2016, you go to the Spurs and pop. So it's like, could you be better prepared? You get there, you've got international stars, Manu, Tony Parker. Did that sort of, I don't know, make the path seem a lot easier as far as having guys from around the world that you could sort of learn from and talk to? Definitely. You know, there's so many international players on every single team, but back then, you know, having San Antonio as a team that's like a nice transition from European basketball to the NBA, it definitely made it much, much easier. And, you know, every single guy that plays an important role, like they come in from kind of internationally. You know, Manu played in Europe. Tony grew up there.  Everybody gets attached. Nobody cares. Who's finished in the play at the end. It was a really, really easy transition. Do you have any pop stories that you can share? I mean, I know some of them are not shareable. Did he like you? I think he did. For most part, you know, except for making some bad mistakes, the defensive end sometimes, you know, then you get in a dog house in the first few years and then don't step on the court for a little while after that. But, like, it's just him yelling at every single guy. If they mess it up, doesn't matter if it's Tony or it's Manu, if it's me or right now, it could be a two way. Like he does not care. Like he's going to, he wants the team play a certain way. If you don't do it, you're going to keep you responsible, regardless if your jersey is going to be in the rafters in like three years after that. I like that. But you probably, you respect that. Yeah, as a player. Oh, definitely. I respect that. And, you know, in a way right now, Cliff is the same way. I kind of love that old school type of coaching. You know, that's, that's what I grew up with. And I feel comfortable with that kind of environment where the coach is just holding every single guy responsible the same way. Davis, my last question for you is Adam Silver recently has said that he may go to a format where he goes USA versus the world and looking at the list of these international players, obviously, you're well aware. Yoke is Donkage, SGA, Giannis, Joel, Wimby, although we got Joel this on the team. Yeah. Who, how cool would that be? Who wins that game? Would you be stoked to possibly play in that game? I think there's a little bit better players than me. To make that world team would love to, of course, but, I don't know, if that was the All-Star game format, I think everybody would try a little bit harder to win just to be able to talk a lot of smack, you know, and I feel that would make it really competitive. I hate it, by the way. I'm all for that. Anything other than what they're doing now for the All-Star game. You just made the argument even more for us to have this happen.  World dominance. I think it's divisive. Basketball has brought so many people together. Save that for the Olympics. Not inside of the NBA. That's my opinion. He's being soft, Davis. I'm so sorry about that.  Everything's divisive. We appreciate the time.  He's like, I'll start from that side. Yeah, yeah. Just start over there and go down. Thank you. We'll take a quick break when we come back. Oh, it's golf time. Hey. Oh, it's happening. Will's All-Tourists and Chandler's going to hijack the whole interview when Run It Back returns.  Run it up, run it back, like a... I mean, I feel like I could just read off the list of accomplishments of our next guests here and I can feel the excitement just emanating from my friend Chandler P here because joining us now, a man who's done the masters, he's done the PGA championship, he's done the U.S. Open. He's finished second at all those. He's joining us now from Dallas. Will Zalatoris is on the show and I thought you were going to stand up and show him your swing and be like... We'll get to that. Okay, we'll ease into that. I want to ask you, we're going to talk off obviously here in a second, but Hoops first, you're from the Bay Area, you're a Warriors fan. We talked so much about do they have anything left to make one more run at a championship.  Do you see it? I mean, I hope so. I mean, they've they've given us spurts of, like, hope throughout the year. I mean, it's kind of fun whenever I'm on the road.  It's not an easy schedule coming up either. So two games against Dallas is not ideal. Yeah, if they don't get it this year, does it feel... I don't know, as a fan, does it feel like that dynasty is over? Clock is ticking. Yeah, I mean, it's... it's now or never. I mean, it's great to add in CP3, especially, you know, being a Wake Forest guy. Selfishly, it's a lot of fun, but it's now or never. Well, what is the... and I'm terrified to ask this because... Well, tidbit, you gave me a commercial break. What is the best Warriors game you have ever attended? Oh, dear. So, you may or may not have been on the floor. It was against Dallas. Okay. It was a game that I think was, like, right around Christmas and Steph and Clay went off for 40 each. Oh, my. And it was... it was disgusting, but, I mean, I sat behind the bench and maybe one of the funniest things about it, though, is watching Clay's mannerisms because he's, like... him shooting threes is just, like, a tit. Like, he's literally just, like, sitting on the bench, like, you know, Steve Kerr could be drawing up a player or something like that. And he's just sitting there just looking at the basket just, like, nonstop like this. And it's just, like, the most Clay thing ever. I mean, it's so funny. There's a good chance if they got hot, it was probably on. It's because I was guarding them. I got them kick-started there, but, uh... You have a legacy. He was gross. He was usually pretty busy during the NBA playoffs, but did you get to see most of their finals run? Yeah, I did.  You know, my dad and Bob Fitzgerald, who's in our announcers, and they've been friends for 30-plus years. They're actually playing golf on Friday together.  But, um, it's been a lot of fun. It's been a great run.  Yeah, growing up in the Bay Area, we talked about this yesterday. One of the rookies on Charlie, he said his goat was Paul George, which, obviously, I don't think that means he thinks he's the best player ever, but is Steph your goat, just considering everything you've seen from when you watch? You know, everything you've seen him do in person? Yeah, I mean, like, when it comes to just not even just basketball, like, sport in general, like, someone who has literally transformed the game, um, it's kind of hard, not to, for me, not to say he's a goat.  Like, if I said that in front of him, he'd be like, how dare you not say it's MJ.    Yeah. Sorry, I got a puppy while I was out. I know, let me see the puppy. She just ran away, of course. Oh, yeah. She'll come back. No, but, yeah, yeah, sorry. Oh, no, never apologize. Never apologize for a dog. Um, so you sank a KIPA 22 St. Jude championship and you shot it. What do they got to say now? Which is a Steph throwback, by the way. Have you found yourself being inspired by him in some way when you're playing golf?  You got bad ankles.  You're going to make any putts. You know, you're going to do this. You're going to do that. You always finish second.    Well, what I've learned is there's somewhat new golfers. There's so many different levels to this. I know our boy Kevin Doherty, he's going through the corn ferry process. He gets his card. And the guy like Steph Curry, Tony Roma, they're scratch golfers.  How many strokes have you played with him before and how many strokes would you have to give him to actually make it even? Because scratch is different than a plus six or whatever you are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's so I give Tony six. We play a lot. I mean, between Scotty, Shephler, Jordan Spieth, Kelly Kraft, me, we play with Tony quite a bit.  I'll make like four doubles and he could be birding his pop holes and you just have no chance. But like he also like playing with Tony is hysterical because he just literally like he will hit it everywhere. And then all of a sudden I'll make like a 30 footer like it's just so annoying. Like it's really funny because we could be we could be playing like a five man Wolf game. And like if he makes a putt and you're on his team, like no one's happy. Like, yeah, it's really fun. It's really. Yeah, but even like we have a side game going against each other and it's like if you make a putt, everyone's like, whatever. Come on. That's awesome. Well, I know you're familiar with some of the NBA golfers outside of Steph. Forget who's the who's the best. Who's the worst golfer in the NBA in European? Well, I mean, Barkley obviously takes the cake. I mean, I know he's not even I know he's retired, but like. I saw he fixed the hips, though. Well, he doesn't do he did. So I actually, he had to do like a commercial with Tony and he came down to Dallas and was hitting golf balls. And I was really impressed. Like it was really good, but that being said, like driving ranges 100 yards wide and there were still probably about 30 golf balls. That like we're either on the train tracks or in the parking lot. So like, it's better, but it's not good. I say this all the time. I think LeBron James is one of the most, if not the most athletic person in the world, but you give him like an eight iron and he just loses all he did. Has he played?  Oh, yeah. It's brutal. I'm a top golfer. I'm a top golfer. Natural born golfer. So it's, but I feel like if you're one of the most athletic people in the world, you should be able to figure out that. No, I don't. Well, let's ask Will, because I don't know that they correlate. There's a different kind of coordination, right? To hit a golf ball. It's different. Yeah.  And that's the kind of lag that gets created in the golf swing. And so I think it's just different because it's like, especially like golf, you're, you're to the side, whereas in basketball, you're like facing forward and you're like kind of, it's just, it's just different. But like that being said, that being said, it's the only thing I got on LeBron. So that's all. So just keep it and run with it. By the way, we want to show you a little clip here of our best friend, Chandler Parsons, who spends a lot of time on golf courses. Here he is in Cabo, living his best life. Mix in some sunscreen. Nice. Yeah. No kidding. So I'm a dangerous 10, 11 index. I can go real low. I can also go real high. So we, that's a good partner. He said, yeah, the five-man Wolf game. That's, I'm playing that today at Sherwood. We go five-man Wolf, stroke off the low and we hammer. We hammer through the hole. We hammer through the hole, but yeah, I'm all over the place still. Sometimes I've played in some programs, some tournaments, I'm going to play in some more, but dude, it saved my life. I'm obsessed with golf. I do it three times a week. Three? Three? That's good. You got a good move. You got a really good move. Can you put a shirt on? I feel the love of God. It's a gentleman's life. That was at Chileno Bay. Have you ever played in these discovery courses, Will? Where it's just, Oh yeah. It's K. Oh yeah. He's played everywhere. Yeah. We, a lot of golfers have places over there, but we got, it's a good start. It does look wonky. I'll take it. Yeah, I agree with him on that. You got good people congratulating you when wonderful things happen. And I want to talk Adam Sandler here for a second, because there's the resemblance to the caddy from Happy Gilmore, which is vital and important, but also, we now know that we're getting a Happy Gilmore too. It's officially official. Could you be on that? You got to do it. So I'm getting a haircut tomorrow and I told my girl that I'm like, this is our last haircut for a while. I'm, I don't know if I'm going to be a part of it, but I'm going to be ready. Yes. So, hair's growing out. Wife is okay with it. Word, so it's going, Word. No, yeah. No haircut for a long time, hoping that, hoping I get the call. I mean, how could they not come calling?  That's epic. He's like, the part that's funny is that the actor in real life is like, he's like a psychiatrist or something now. Like he's like, got his PhD. Oh, wow. Yeah. But it's, he like reached out to me and said like, congrats and all that. It was hysterical. It's like Docker. Yeah, it's great. All right, you're going to be in it. It's going to happen. Manifest. I hope so. I hope so. Lou, you're up here. Oh, are you taking over the interview again, Chandler? Oh, go ahead Lou. I want to, I want to ask, you're Wake Forest alumni. Do you, in the tournament, did you root for other ACC schools or, were you excited that Duke and UNC went out? My hatred for Duke is pretty rich. I'm not going to lie. That makes two of us. It's all good. Three of us. All of us. All of us. There we go. Basically, it's kind of funny because like, like I'm a Giants fan or San Francisco Giants fan.  Like, I don't really care about the Padres, even though technically it's a rivalry. Like, UNC, like I'm kind of like, yeah, you're, I'm not rooting for y'all ever, but I played golf for Roy Williams once, who's an unbelievably awesome guy. Super funny, really good golfer actually, but like, I just can't root for Duke, like in anything. Like it's just, it's like the bane in my existence. That's smart. That's smart. I feel you. I don't even root for Duke if they didn't even go there. Like it doesn't even make sense. Do you even go here? Master's tee off and it's the happiest time for every grown man that I know. It's like Christmas all over again.  So most importantly, how are you feeling? I feel awesome. You know, I had a really good team of docs. I had the same doctors that a tiger went to. You know, it's been a, it's been a long journey. It's been about eight months. You know, really grinding on the rehab, but I feel really good. And, you know, it'll be pretty special when I get back there. And, you know, I blew out my back on the driving range 30 minutes before my tee time, which is like the biggest, like nightmare ever.  And then the next day, I'm out for the rest of the year. So, you know, I've got some, I got a chip on my shoulder this year too.  So I'm tired of looking at silver. I like that. That's the attitude you want to have. By the way, is there a world in which a catty last minute is ill or can't, can't work that weekend? Would you consider Chandler? I'll throw it in my bag. Yeah. Oh, Karen, your bag. Yeah. I got a lot of stuff in there. Like, whenever I take it out, take it out of the travel case after the end of the week, I'm like, God, leave my catty. You didn't get paid enough. You know, like the fifth time I ever played was at Cyprus and there was no carts. It was freezing and like no catty.  Did you hear that? I'm like, this is not discovery. This is not for me. I'm out on the catty. I'm also dyslexic on the greens too. I'm five strokes better than without a catty than without a catty. So I am useless for you in that category. It might be the tequila down at Chileno. That plays a big part. Outside of top golf, I've never touched a golf club in my life. I've just never caught the bug a lot of my brothers have. If I worked with you, how long would it take me to be better than this guy? It depends. I think if we get a few cocktails in us, I could get you going pretty quick. But I think if, if we're out there grinding in me, that's the thing. It's just like every time I try to help an athlete, like it doesn't matter if it's Tony or like, you know, like a couple of guys that are baseball players that work out at the same gym that I'm at. And like we start talking golf swing. It's like the obsession of like, I have to be better right now. And it's so frustrating because golf is like, it's just like, yeah, it's like, you can't perfect it. You're going to hit bad shots that are going to end up really good. And you're going to hit really good shots that are going to end up bad. And like, it's not, it's not, there's not a straight correlation to like success. And so like, it might be a natural. I think it's a good one. It might be a natural. Yeah. It's, it just takes like the one good shot or like the one good round. And it's like, I always loved where it's like people talk about how they're so excited to get to the first tee.  Why am I doing this?  And then they hit one good shot on 18. They're like, I can't wait to come back tomorrow. It's amazing. We'll all be watching. You love the masters. Yeah. Love it. Good luck. All right. Good luck. Thanks man. Thanks y'all. We'll be back. My goal is to get all of us on a golf course before it's all said and done. Tomorrow, we got Ryan Recillo. Oh, old friend. Haven't seen that dude in a minute. So we're going to have him on tomorrow. We got hoops tonight. Gentlemen, enjoy your evening. You do the same. Start your engines. I don't know why I'm holding my laptop. Run it up. They run it back. Run it.


Hi, this is your host up in Bhartiya and welcome to another episode of the stock today We have with us Anna Hammerson ecosystem manager at the Linux Foundation research and I scared to have you back on the show This time remotely not in person, but it's still great. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me Yeah, and today's topic is research report on open source Congress 2023 talk a bit about a Bit about the report the background and what is open source Congress as we Know as individuals in the open source community open source is about more than just software it's about an entire model of work and collaboration and it's those models of work that allow for the kind of innovation we see in the space and the the use we see in the space and So the community as a whole is is working on these in these kind of innovative spaces But is also facing some at times unprecedented challenges You know anyone in the space knows we're facing always cyber security challenges As we saw in the conference and as individuals are seeing there is higher regulatory scrutiny we're also facing issues with techno nationalism and Digital sovereignty where these tensions between different geographies make that free flow of knowledge and software difficult And then of course as we're all talking about we're seeing risks and ethics around ethical issues around artificial intelligence and so a Few there are calls from our community to bring leaders together in this space to You know as the report is titled to stand together on these common issues and whether or not you're in the healthcare industry You're in financial services. You're in Canada, you know, you're in you're in China or Any kind of cultural social structures? We do need to bring ourselves together to address them collaboratively and so in July of this past year 2023 53 open-source leaders came together In Geneva in Switzerland and the mandate was to identify what these shared values are and also what the shared priorities are around these challenges To build relationships amongst these foundations and organizations and then come up with a plan for how to sustain the diversity and resilience of the open-source space so the objectives were to discuss these critical challenges explore pathways and then Establishing channels for discussion as earlier you're talking about some geopolitical tensions that are going on there Of course, there are a lot of tensions Which are purely political sometimes there are trade embargoes also there so And there are like conflict between Nations political parties, but there's a lot of collaboration that goes on with people So when you like since you're also like involved with a lot of Linux Foundation project you talk to a lot of folks and With this con congress, you know, what are some of the issues that you felt were like They're like like only on the surface Hey, you know what that can be deal with and then you saw there are some issues Which are very very core critical because when they are trade embargoes you actually cannot even interact with those Countries or those industries. So what are some really serious issues that? Came across when you know your teams or you know the links foundation was working on this report Yeah, so I guess in terms of the techno nationalism piece we had individuals who We we we had some findings around the fact that there were groups that felt even coming together in a specific In a specific location was difficult, you know, where do we go? If is it political to meet up in Geneva or in North America or somewhere in Asia and so As as is quoted in the report, you know, it's even the location of the meeting can be difficult and so From from our findings it felt like this was kind of a newer issue that that wasn't happening, you know Maybe 10 20 years ago And so I think even that that tension there is difficult to manage and of course the point of the congress is to rise above those issues and You know as a as a neutral body that is meant to be, you know Not any sort of political leaning the Linux foundation and these other Foundations that also are are neutral in this space You know, the idea is for us to rise above that that tension and to also Promote the fact that that this collaboration is more important than these kind of regional tensions But definitely has been an issue in in even as I said even setting up a location for this And so Geneva was chosen as it represents kind of a neutrality in this space But yeah, even even a location was difficult if I asked you to kind of summarize What are some of the key findings of this report? Yeah, so the as I mentioned earlier the the meeting was set around these kind of core challenges in the space and so one of those, you know is is open source software security You know with open source there's an absence of a central authority to ensure disclosure and Responsibility around vulnerabilities and and hacking and so That represents an issue in and of itself and then there's also as we've seen in our other research There's a lack of cybersecurity professionals with little bandwidth to actually manage that foundational security piece and so some solutions that the group came up with was you know focusing on training and tooling and We actually have a research report that we're we're looking at around security education For developers, but training and tooling came up. How to attract new talent, especially talent that is diverse And then also can we work with schools and other institutions to develop stronger curriculum around security? There's also the the age-old story about how do we compensate maintainers, especially when it comes to that really foundational security piece and then finally the concept of security by default and designing around foundational security principles that just make the software stronger from the GECO The second challenge what that was discussed was was around regulation and so the you know, the EU has come out with a lot of a lot of policy and the states as well, but the there was a focus in the report around GDPR The Digital Markets Act the AI the AI act and of course the CRA, which I believe you've touched on in other interviews with Hillary But this this there's a sentiment that these these policies could be and have already impacted the open-source community and and also our Participants of the Congress felt that the open-source community is not actually engaging enough in this policy space And so not only is is is policy being created that does not Reflect our perspectives because we're less engaged, but also our contributions at a socio-economic level are less understood and so some solutions around that were the You know the foundations have to acquire the skills to engage in this kind of policy work You know, it's not a developer work It's you know, it's you know nuanced understanding of how institutions create policy legal acumen communicating complex technological concepts advocacy public speaking so Making sure that the foundations have those tools to to communicate with policy makers and then How do we actually engage? actively in Policies and proposing new policies around these issues of cybersecurity AI privacy, etc The third finding was that or the third kind of core issue we discussed was This geopolitical tension and so how do we maintain that free flow of knowledge and technology? When we're talking about techno nationalism and digital sovereignty And so also the issue of when we when we are in a more digital sovereign space This typically increases the amount of regulations Which increases the cost of compliance, you know, we see that in Canada in the healthcare space where we have 13 different jurisdictions with 13 different privacy policies and so as a result data stewards are are risk averse because they don't understand all of the different Regulations in place for for data privacy in the different provinces or are less familiar with different provinces. So Some solutions around this where you know, it's difficult to come to actual solutions around something like a geopolitical tension but always Foundations can always champion open-source software and the fact that digital sovereignty Has actually been embraced Sorry, digital sovereign sovereignty has embraced open-source software, which removes that dependence on proprietary technology You know avoiding situations where those political considerations really dominate the technical considerations and who can participate and who can't And as I said earlier just remaining politically neutral and transparent when managing community contributions And then of course that piece around around increasing diversity in the space and so investing in there is a comment about investing in translation capabilities for project comms and embedding stronger codes of conduct the last element, which is a big one is is was the artificial intelligence concerns and so That focused on the definition of open when it comes to AI, you know We have a really strong definition of open when it comes to software, but as we've seen and has been written about You know this that that definition doesn't flow seamlessly into a definition for artificial intelligence You know, we have we have models that as we as we've seen in the report and at the Congress the the more Transparent they are it's actually a trade-off with performance and so That explainability and transparency is a really key element of understanding how we get to an outcome using artificial intelligence And what the inputs were but as was discussed at the Congress The more explainable sometimes the the the weaker the performance of the AI tool and so again not a ton of really Well solutions were difficult to come to in this space, but There was definitely championing of more open AI and You know, we that ability to kind of approach AI in a transparent way and safeguard human rights and and put in checks and balances for for bias looking at the importance and rule of public sector especially with the Linux Foundation Europe Are there any departments division or Dedicated foundations with the Linux Foundation, which are focused purely on You know public engine, but when I say public sector, you know government in DC Or do you feel that you know different foundations can't deal with that at their own level? I just you know, it's a kind of higher level question where you feel that you know As you said earlier that at the Congress we realized that we do need more engagement of open source community with government But having a concentrated effort might, you know have more results Versus fragmented distributed first. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you asked that that was actually one of the Conversations that came out of the Congress and so the first half of the day was what are the challenges? What are the issues? What are maybe some solutions and then the second half of the day or the later part of the day was a discussion around okay? We're seeing a theme of collaboration absolutely across all of these areas How do we actually? Initiate that kind of collaboration and the kind of work that we need to see to have all of these parties come together And so I think the the Linux Foundation and other foundations You know, they do a lot of work to kind of provide that neutral home for for initiatives and projects and data and software and hardware, but we Were we're stronger as You know as a united front of different foundations and and as you say we have the Linux Foundation Europe We have Linux Foundation Japan, but there are other foundations in this space that that can that are willing and are interested in supporting this kind of Larger global collaboration and so in that latter half of the of this of the Congress there were two solutions that were thrown around about how to bring about this type of global collaboration and so one was a more kind of formal body around the Collaboration they were calling it a kind of global secretariat something like the UN for open source and so there were some pros to that where the formalization of that kind of body allows that to be someone's entire kind of job and purpose and things may move a bit faster than other solutions, but of course that need for resources and You know the limited bandwidth that already exists at open source foundations makes that makes that a Potentially a challenging solution to actually adopt and implement And then the other solution was more lightweight and that was to create a peer-to-peer network of different open source foundation leaders to to meet on a kind of regular a regular basis and to discuss these issues and and I think particularly when it comes to the policy space, you know how to Working on building relationships with with policymakers I think the beauty of a foundation at least like the Linux Foundation Which is what I'm most familiar with is that we are a group of people that often have that kind of communications and In a kind of more nuanced maybe more nuanced legal understanding because that is what we were founded for was to provide legal expertise And legal support a community building support, you know program management support And so we may already have a lot of those skills that are needed for engaging with policymakers And so I think bringing bringing our might together with other foundations As the Congress just suggested either in a more formal way or a more informal lightweight way Would really help with this these issues that we we came up with at the Congress When we talk about, you know, this importance of international Collaboration we kind of tend to forget that open source is an international idea either way The kernel was developed in you know, Finland in Europe and most of the work is done in Europe A lot of AI work is being done in China, Asia, different countries So the whole open source and open source is less about code. It is actually about collaboration Code is the easy part, you know, the most important part is people and collaborations so During that discussion During the Congress or you know, when you're looking at this report Did it ever come up with hey, you know what, you know, why this international collaboration is so important? Or it is taken for granted that yes, open source is an international concept and idea is the the the the political boundaries Doesn't shouldn't exist when it comes to open source. Yeah It's a good. It's a good question. I think the the the collaboration piece is of course As I've mentioned before it's kind of the foundation of what open source is We find that across our research that collaboration is key to to pushing the space forward But I think to your point of is international taken for granted. I actually think it's maybe more the At least what was found in the report is that there's there's a western Centricism to the work that that goes on in the open source community You know, um, English is the language we use to you know to communicate in these communities um, and there's um, definitely more of a focus on Western north, maybe even a focus primarily on North American Organizations and companies which is in part why we're seeing more digital sovereignty and Techno nationalism in these different areas such as in Europe where there's a desire to be less dependent on American companies But I think that international piece is is really important because it also opens the door for you know, if we become a more internationally focused group then that leaves room for Maybe a more diverse developer pool You know as as a woman in tech. I always say, you know, if I see a woman somewhere I know that that's a Place that I can go as well And so it's not always needs to be that case But I think the more representation we have in these spaces and and the last kind of western centric they become the more we can attract diversity of thought and diversity of development, which is crucial to building these softwares and also to You know to build out that To bring these softwares together that are maybe being produced more in in china or in europe But to kind of make them more global. So yeah, I think it's a really important point of Internationals not necessarily taken for granted in the open source community As you earlier talking about, you know, that a lot of you know, European or other countries they don't want to rely on, you know, American companies for their code bit and I think that's where open source comes To play because you don't have to rely on a company you rely on an open source project and that's actually Makes it even more important for a neutral place like Linux foundation because now because the Code base even if it is open source if it is owned by a company That you're still, you know, kind of tied to that company But if the code is owned by a neutral foundation like Linux foundation or Kubernetes a good example I mean you folks have tons of projects. So that actually creates a very even playing field It doesn't really matter whether you in Japan, China, Asia, Africa, Europe You can collaborate you can leverage that code base. So open source is the global language when it comes to writing software As we saw in the report, they're the digital sovereignty component of not wanting to be reliant on a specific Company or even an entire region of software development Um, you know, it makes open source a really valid and useful response to that to that concern And and the Congress the individuals at the come at the Congress were supportive of digital sovereignty Absolutely just how do we kind of Um massage or or Use digital sovereignty for Still engaging the open source community and supporting, you know Data privacy and all of these issues that come with the desire for data sovereignty But to not close off that that flow of You know of software and knowledge and I think One really interesting important piece that we always see in our research and I've spoken to you about before with our micro grids Paper for example, but the that this interoperability piece And so that also comes into play in this idea of of sovereignty and even a sovereignty over Proprietary solution or company and you know, we've we've seen that in more energy work We had a meeting with nrcan the other day a canadian Department and we were talking about the issue of building out a software or an infrastructure That's reliant on one piece of proprietary code That where the company may you know go out of business or stop developing that and then you're you're kind of stuck And we see that in in healthcare as where as well where if you buy a piece of proprietary software And then that software gets you know off the shelf and then that software no longer is developed and and that that company no longer exists your entire data is exists in this kind of maybe this Infrastructure that no longer really exists or works and and I was reading an article about the that issue in the AI in an AI capacity where You know you have these off the shelf AI models where if they go away at some point Then all that data that was used to train all that healthcare data that was is patient data Just no longer not even that it no longer exists It's just no longer useful or that you have to kind of start from scratch and so Getting back to your the concept of sovereignty if if we implement open source tools It leaves so much more room for that kind of modular interoperable approach that doesn't leave us reliant on one piece Or one company Which is important across any industry Can you also talk about you know as you're a little explaining they know that there are some challenges They're figuring out how to have a better collaboration with the public sector And open source what role do you see that you know LF research can play there because you folks Not only get a lot of insight, but also you give it back, you know the lessons learned, you know What are the I mean even solutions can come out of that so talk about the rule of No, these kind of research and reports. Yeah, so the I think the the great part about having an organization like the next foundation research is that we can attend events like the congress and You know record what happens and write it down in a in a digestible You know actionable way and so that's what we did this time We've done it with other roundtables and other sessions And so not only do we produce primary data survey data interview data, but we can also You know go to events like this and use Chatham house rule to to produce Findings that that make what happened at the congress not just kind of discussion but also Discussion kind of written down on on paper to to use For individuals that that either were there weren't there to bring it bring those points across I think research generally is a really important aspect of Particularly when we're looking at that regulatory piece We work with a group called penta and they produce research for us around the role of of Or the the understanding of open source and a linux foundation in the european and american policy space And one of their findings is that the linux foundation When it's when when those policy makers know who we are or know what open sources We're well respected and our research is very well respected And that plays a really important role in policy making when you have individuals that You know policy makers are not experts necessarily in what they're creating policy around and so We can provide research like you know this congress report in a briefing memo or as a full report and they can Then use that research to to educate themselves on what open source is and that is as we talked about earlier That's a huge piece of this regulatory puzzle is how do we get policy makers more engaged in what open source is and so kind of this full circle of Doing this research to figure out policy issues to then write the research and use it in the policy space I think it's a really nice Full full circle moment for our linux foundation research. So yeah And I thank you so much for taking time out today and talk about this Report actually you share some great insight in what's going on in this world So and and the rule and importance of open source linux foundation and linux foundation research there Thanks for all those great insights and I would love to talk to you again. Thank you. Thank you Thank you so much for having me


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Our next speaker is Emmanuel Degueur. Emmanuel Degueur is also a good friend of mine, and works for a television channel, the last year in the group called Trace TV. And he will explain to us how he built a transcoding platform based on open source software. Hi everyone. So, as Christophe just said, I work for Trace TV. So it's a group of channels, as you may see here, we have like various TV channels about music, like different kind of music we specify for the different regions in Africa. But we have two sports channels. We have now a radio offer, and all this is based in Paris. It is a total of 24 streams now. And so this presentation is in phases on the transcoding really light platform we did. So basically it's just a combination of like tools you probably know, of course, FFNPEG, et cetera. But I really want to put the emphasis on the interface itself, and why we really needed to focus on that. So it all started with that project named Trace Central, which was dedicated first for production teams. So it's all jQuery, like I use this bootstrap theme them united to do like all these little dynamic boxes, et cetera, and lights. The idea there was that, like all was done on paper, like until like very recently, and like people will like just enter some stuff that will be like some checkings on capital layers, et cetera, as they use a type, et cetera, just to normalize it with green light, red light, et cetera. And then we pushed that to the transcoding world. So basically this is just a web server. This will call Python scripts to run FFNPEG tasks. At the very first, the tasks were really, really simple one, just conversion HD to SD, et cetera. Then we had to modify the sum and bring it to zero in our MXFs. And then it really had to do like audio mappings because all our different channels like will have like bilingual French, English, or just English or Spanish, whatever. And like there was all many, many combination of audio mapping. But the point is that even if my team, like the technical team could do it by itself, like just using FFNPEG normally with the lines, most of the users now are almost everyone in a company, like everyone, either as a graphic designer or the schedulers, whoever, like even people working in marketing and have no knowledge at all of video needs to transcode by themselves video to make it more efficient. So that's why we started like to do stuff that will detect if there are like many various source of the same files, like what will be the highest resolution available, like full HD, HD ready, whatever. And then like people like told me like, I just don't understand what is HD. And I don't want to understand what is HD. So then I just went with old system with green light, red light, it's good quality, bad quality. It's really funny to say that but this was a real need in our company because people who didn't want to get involved in these techniques needed to transcode video by themselves because if they had to ask to my service all the time, Emmanuel, we need to transcode this or that, it will take so much more time than if they do it by themselves. And then when we opened that Pandora box, of course everyone used it and in a various way that were out of control. And then we had to to combine it with a really simple, so at first it was MongoDB database but now we just switched to SQL. We just had to have a tracking of how many video were transcoded and as it goes, sorry, the definition is really bad but as you can see there were still thousands of video, sorry, like many videos were, hundreds of video were like HD ready when I want basically to have all of them in full HD. So that was a way for me to track that people were still not understanding how to use software and I had to make it even more simple to reach my goal, which were like 100% full HD videos. Then what's next? So what we want to do next is to make it faster to duplicate our servers and to share it back with the community. So we just created a really simple GitHub. First for backup purposes and make it way more easy to duplicate. We added a parser, so this one was done in Node.js with like this package, so all are well known but like most of our producers, they deliver the metadata as various way, various way to do it like XLSX but like CSV and then they will do like non-standard CSV, like they always think it's funny to customize it and replace the punctuation by like percent or whatever so each time like you have to modify the parsers kind of thing. And the idea was to integrate like all the metadata in a bundle and auto-zip it and then move it from storage to one to the other, to one another. Then what I want to modify right now is that all the network folder path are hardcoded now and before sharing it of course we would like just to have a page and the people be able to enter the network folder that they would want to use because this software is a way to redistribute the videos after transcoding to either ready to broadcast so directly to the play-out station or sometimes for advisory reason we need to blur like whatever like alcohol, cigarettes, bikes, whatever we need to do a lot of blurring and there are different services, production services at trace who said we'll do only this task so it will be rerouted from here to there whatever and all this is under control by the software. So as soon as this will be done I think we will be able to share it because then it won't be just internal software dedicated for trace but it could be like really easy for people to have this web server all in place and use it. So of course when we created that software what I had in mind was this commercial software named CarbonCoder by Harmonic and they have like their farm named WFS. So of course it's far from this product which is way more advanced than my transcoding platform of course but it is an open source and I think it's way easier to modify to modify these two units. So I think I went kind of fast because that was... So I don't know if you guys have any questions or if you want some more details on our production workflows or whatever. We've got plenty of time for questions. Yes, I'm sorry. Advantage of it? Yes. You said you create in-cabin MFC F5 F5 correct? Is that correct? No, they don't. So yes, the question was like do the producer provide like correct MXF directly? And the answer of course is no. We have 20 production centers in the world and of course I will even though since eight years I'm trying to say please provide me MXFX decams they can do it still. So I have always a variety of format which are really badly done. The biggest problem I have is like they never respect the frame rate. Like I would have like they will invent frame rates which is kind of funny like because they think it is when you have to enter the frame rate like they think it's asked to them enter the number you want and they will put like 11 so we have to get it back or they will do 22 FPS or I don't know whatever various format and it's too late because what you have to know is that most of the videos produced for example in Nigeria Nigeria is a huge production city. They have like like you may have heard of Bollywood and they have nollywood like Nigeria the core of production and like the company produce the content like they will have a six months lifetime and then they close and people do another job. So of course like you have like this Russian 22 FPS and they deleted everything and you just have that and you need to make it like a 25 FPS and makes a fix the camera of it. So this is a lot we have this very, very often then much more classical is like all the content that come from the US and then there would be 29 to 97 FPS and we have to just bring it back to 25 but the same like thanks to the open source community we find a way to make it properly like with like more subtle parameters to have the lip sync work perfectly on this modification for modifications. So now like we receive like huge amount of formats. No, for the moment Oh, sorry, the question was like is the transcoding distributed like multi thread or whatever. Now, I mean we're just playing with the multi thread parameters and FFM peg of course to have all our cores used but no, it is not like a farm right now. At the same time, what we try to do is we have a VMware cluster and we created really small virtual machines for each transcoding units because if you split by all the different services like there would be really small needs there are a lot of needs on the global if you look at global but it's always like little needs transcoding here and there so we don't need to put like crazy performing servers for them. So in no way, it's a distribution that works for trace but it's not distributed as you just asked. Yes, Kieran? Yep. How to distribute jobs between so you have some servers which are very powerful some mediums, some low power how to distribute transcoding jobs between them when you need to do it all specific thing? As I said, the question was like how do I distribute the transcoding if I have like a big jobs to transcode or smaller ones? For the moment, it's just a lot of small ones and for example, like when we have movies which is brand new for us because Trace started to do SVOD just last year so for the first time we have movies where as I said we are a music channel so our programs are never longer than 15 minutes but then when you go on movies like when we have to transcode a long movie we will always ask for example to our partners in England we will always subtitling and voiceover to retranscode it because they are doing like the voiceover so right now we didn't have that need. Yes? So who's your key internal customer? The question was who is the key customer of this kind of tool internally and it will be anyone in the company really because like the idea is to the key word for in our companies is like digitalize a company whatever and first like they are really proud of like our editors being able to shoot and edit but no they have to shoot, edit and transcode and like no even like marketing people need to transcode themselves, the videos so everyone need to transcode and that's why we like I explained like everyone is using it and I try to make this really easy word to understand what they were doing at least kind of properly. The biggest user? Yeah. The biggest user will be equally the editors of course in the broadcast team but all the how do you say that like the community managers in the digital platforms on the website etc like they will need to take our broadcast content and do like some MPEG4 versions for their website so equally these two guys. Yes? Can you name some key friends, customers? Oh you mean we don't we use it just internally for the moment. We don't have customers, my goal is to share it now open source of course but it's just an internal software for the moment. Okay can you talk some about your competitors? So the competitors of you want to know who are the competitors of Trace TV or the competitors of Trace TV? It will be complicated like if we talk about digital or SDOD we'll be in Netflix even though we are way smaller than them and on the broadcast it is kind of we are kind of singular as we are a French international company we are like in 120 countries over 30 satellites and we are a small company still we are 200 people so I would say we don't have exactly the same kind of competitors. MTV is way bigger than us why it would be the same business idea than MTV but with like a tenth of their team. Thanks everyone. Oh sorry, we are right. Yes? No? Thanks. No other questions? Thanks everyone.