What's going on guys got Kyle here with late in sports cards, and we are ripping this is 2023 Top's chrome jumbo eight box full case number 12 random team stop did a random mods for the break We had Yasuto with the red socks all the way down to Jared B with the Guardians Can always find these results on our website guys late in sports cards calm underneath the personal section. Good luck. Let's do it See some fire tops chrome jumbo Yeet as force would say We've got the same tick tock cord on my leg We're gonna tick-tock tonight Sean, but it's just gonna be you. That's fine Just straight on your face Good luck guys tops chrome jumbo Fire case here Sean's ready for some heat There's Vulpie Corbin Carol right behind him. There's a Casas insert. We've got a prism mookie And hannagurt on the refractor Morgan and Morgan and Morgan for the people and Morgan I was listening to a podcast the other day and Morgan and Morgan was the sponsor What Michael Harris? I was like what? Oh, yeah, that's gold that's gold in the auto spot come on now come on Jordan Walker Josh Young and Gold is gonna be Justin Steele on the rookie auto there number 250 for the Cubs Cubs getting the true gold rookie I get some soft sleeves Vaughn Chris and rookie Where's he going? I heard he was going on vacation and even no la really. Yeah. Oh Lord.  Yeah That's that's pretty much the only way you escape in all I think is like in a bus to 199 We got a lava manoa been intending cabrera and a good start with the gold got another goal That's another goal So I guess double good start with the goal. There's Adley his gold wave and it's gonna be Jose Miranda for the twins number 250 Two golds already take that and a Josh Young refractor rookie nice refractor rookies to Good start good start and a purple Chris Morel throwback and purple is Christopher Morel the 250 on the rookie auto Here we go Cubs got a gold rookie and now we got more relative to 250 Good start cubbies Nice Morel there and Crohn refractor Yeah, I like it Shane. I like the little like the little face in the corner there face in the corner It's a nice touch There's Spencer strike out Ronald Acuna and Julio Yeah, I gave him a reno prison rookie d-backs In guys first breaks with the spot to fill we got our soccer to start the day Museum collection and we've got the The impeccable first off the line gonna be the first break of that Excited for that. It's masataka rookie. There's gunner. Can't go our future stars Ryan Nelson rookie prism Bobby Whitt 15 to go 15 to go museum collection Some fun breaks you quit Aaron Joji got a Tyler O'Neill prism and Refractor muskrow Yeah, I feel like I'll do a couple left sticks to 9th and Sam. Oh, there's a course of a seven hours or so Maybe a couple hundred less honestly. Yeah Austin Riley and rookie auto this one's Michael Massey rookie base there for the Royals Michael Massey base auto and Shohei prism a refractor Say that one for the MVP buyback Technicolor vato Prism Mountie and Gonzales rookie refractor No, not for myself no Yeah, I've been thinking about to Brett Beatty rookie. Yeah, I've been thinking for sure. I'm trying to convince sad, but See if you could split with you or don't technical and Refractor of on Herrera. Yeah, I see what you're saying Shane with the 80s cards for sure Yeah, I liked it. It's just a clean design man. It's looks good QC is very solid like I haven't seen any major issues really All good in the hood box too Good luck guys. There's Adley. It's Michael Harris rookie Josh young rookie Good rookie pack there Got Riley green on the throwback and auto is gonna be Carlos Perez rookie auto white socks rookie catcher Refractor Miranda orange Come on now We got orange On Herrera rookie and orange is gonna be Mike is trim ski to 25 for the Giants Nice hit there for a combo spot Mikey as the 25 orange wave Soto and Alcantara. Oh, yeah, definitely some less autos in the 80s for sure No doubt you got to go down to the ballgame and get them to sign if you wanted an auto Maybe see him I like the Sam's Club or something John Carlo Jake McCarthy just carry your cards around in case you see him around town Casa Spurkey Yeah, the golfing players used to come up from the school After school everybody Yeah Tonight 399 Walda Chuck Nolan Jones prism super duper Bubba Thompson refractor rookie Babe Ruth 101 cut out of that sounds sick. What was that out of CP? Mazataka, I don't think they have cuts in tops Chrome Yeah, there's a prism at Olson. That'd be kind of cool. Taylor Ward What up Willie mr. French mr. French Montana I Got another auto it is G Juan Bay on the rookie auto pirates haven't seen many G Juan Bay autos here I thought he was a rookie last year Pirates there Starling Marte refractor 2021 Hmm.  Maybe it was like flawless Was it a briefcase? Well, all this seems like the place you most most likely get one, but I know they have them another stuff for sure That's cool though, man. That's sick some museum want kind of hold some of those or no. Yeah, that's tops though Yeah, mini Pasquitino. Yeah, Dynasty has a couple Museum has a couple tribute has a couple Like most of the top stuff has a couple, but like it's kind of a little more high-end stuff Stuff with less packs. I guess There's a Walker rookie Josh Young and Autos drew waters the 499 Royals get another auto for the Royals and this is the third when they refractor auto and Alonzo refractor Swear, I can't avoid Peter Lonzo, man. I hit so much Peter Lonzo no matter the product It'd be a basketball product. I'll hit Peter Lonzo, man Casa's throwback Prism is Danesby Swanson and Austin Riley Box it open like a book. Huh playbook I don't think they make playbook basketball Opens like this Alvarez Swarkey, it's ugly a prism opens like a book Andy Ross arena I'm seeing Carol oh diamond icons. Okay. Oh, I know. Yeah, it does open like a book. Now. I know what you're saying for a baby rookie Diamond icons. I got you that's tops, but yeah, I got you. I got what you're saying There's a mookie bets Technicolor. Yeah, that's a that's definitely a product You can get a nice cut out a lot of Freddie Freeman It seems like most of the tops like products in general they throw like a Babe Ruth or something crazy in there Box three Yeah, I wouldn't mind hitting a Babe Ruth cut auto. I don't know Hey, hey, I Was thinking maybe three and two baseball for a second. I was like, oh man Yeah, I didn't even know they had a Babe Ruth cut out of there Let's go. It's show. Hey Francisco Alvarez rookie We got short print ultra violet all-stars this one's Vladdie, Jr. I Sit there the home run Derby champ nice one there blue jays on the ultra violet all-stars Got Kossas on the throwback prism rookie of on Herrera and Soderstam or Stevenson. There's a Josh young throwback base auto mark Apple for the Phillies Phillies rookie base auto and Pujols another Corbin on the front of the pack There's baby aqua lava rookie estuary Ruiz the 199 for the ace Go ace got a Corbin Carroll nice prism rookie d-backs and Rendo. Yeah, I think my favorite cut autos are the Transcendent big ones. Oh nice one here to 299. We got purple speckle nice rookie there Josh young for the Rangers Nice hit their Rangers. That's a max nice young there 299 Not quite. I don't think got a refractor Peterson. Nice hit there max Nice young probably gonna be the AL rookie of the year There's a Volpe Chris Morel throwback and whites on the rookie is gonna be Cal Mitchell on the base Pirates taken home in auto now Cal Mitchell rookie Refractor O'Neill cruise Those jumbo transcendent cuts are sweet man because they don't have to ever cut off any of the name or anything sometimes they have to with a card sized ones future stars Rushman Titan Zacunia Carlos Correa Bobby wit prism and rookie refractor Tovar Rockies he's a good player for the Rockies Ready guys got Rudy get put in an order appreciate you Rudy and Steven grabbing some orders from late gaming Guess they're live right now guys go check that out. I think it's cool, right?  It's it's always like Miguel one thing or another, you know, morale rookie. Yes Yeah Yeah, that's fair. I like it though Roy. I think it's a good move. I think it's a good move They might have printed more that's definitely possible Torkelson future stars Prison Royce Lewis J ran You guys forces here Forces here Shane says hi, that's a prize. So I've changed. I said I said hi for Shane, but It works. He would have said hi Shane's here. There's a purple the 250 lemon Sosa rookie for the white socks real Which a chatty cat he's in chat Yeah, you darvish Yeah, I could see that Roy it's also just like a better class overall So maybe the money's more spread out as last year ever was chasing like just wander Bobby Bobby and Julio I think more spread out. I didn't think about that machado Technicolor got Volpe prism And Rizzo refractor Yo, you guys who do you guys need to be on the national trash list?  Oh my god Technicolor judge. Well, we don't know who number one is I guess you're the other nine The catch was solid The one is engraved in stone. The one almost with the jail in Kentucky Yeah, yeah It looks like Let me see what all these folks How do you get your game back to you? Not that level game. Hello All right, you guys box for we got a patch coming orange patch. Oh super got an orange patch Michael here Give me a minute. It's that cranky for the Royals there on the orange patch to 25 It's a popka legend right there game used there. Is he really? 22 or 25 I did not know that. Yeah, I knew Warren sat There's a merino throwback Julio prism. Yeah, Shane could refractor talk Wasn't trolling in person to Booth or anything No, I think I saw the stream chain wasn't trolling Dude, he was typing in chat Yeah, he's doing all chrismarell got Otto another Carlos Perez for the white socks there show Harassment I couldn't concentrate with that dude there, man. We're sorry. I don't think Halle could make it this week the first time She went she didn't really well what Halle do They're nice and 99 we got green rookie Kodai Sanga nice one there Mets 24 out of 99 that's a sick Kodai job, but Groshens You're supposed to But you can't avoid it's tough in these streets man to avoid this list It's tough Josh young rookie should put Sam on it because no Sam deserves it 2350 Goldie Dude, it was so bad. Shane and Lee were sitting right behind me. There are two common spots They both got them Right in front of me, I couldn't help I was trying not to laugh so hard A nice Riley green Otto and I said there tigers Go huskies nice Riley green rookie A ronda refractor To be on it like in the middle of the baseball game Judge Prism cabrera trash this would be long though. That's the only criteria Yankees fans and players any any association Kodai Sanga is a star wars character Slow rolls a red wave. Masataka What do I go? What are we supposed to do? It's a jump. It's sometimes these uh There's a gun or sometimes these little uh rookie future stars And if you think it's a red or an orange or something Abbey's I don't even know and I looked at it first. It's like oh, I bought a few shots or whatever I went back and I'm like, oh, that's over 99 and it's science. There's an Otto on there. Yeah There's an Otto on there. Interesting. There's a very small space in the future stars Forces a gangster. He'll skunk you both be rookie prism another one in your face Most of the times in a row That is some gang gang. I didn't know being a breaker. That's pretty hard to be considered a gangster. Yeah, that's pretty hard Yeah, I'm not I'm not talking about the dinner that night. Yeah, make up for it Cabrera or peraza peraza throwback prism ski Gonzalez. No, what up snail? Zach, right? Zach is now I'm gonna go finish doing what I'm doing. That's not lake snail. You're telling me. Yeah I've been mistaken this whole time. Yeah a snail zilla Snows a nader Guardians Jram and Otto is bow nailer to 150 blue lava Blue lava Otto for the guardians Chillin man chillin guardians getting involved in the action Nolan Jones refractor. Yeah, we're chillin me and Sean tonight, man. Yeah, it's the first I thought that was gold. That's the Adley that's the Adley Titans George Walker Got technicolor rookie of trade turner and adley titans insert oops Herma marquez The bright baby rookie price harper technicolor prism Chapman Ryan McMahon Alrighty guys halfway box five In guys, we got um soccer coming up here soon got museum collection first. Um, still got 15 left on that one And then we've got impeccable Impeccable first off the line soccer Gonna be the first photo impeccable we do pretty excited for that one We thought we're going here after a few baseball breaks. We still got a couple hours. Um, we're filled up on the first three or four breaks We got some work to do on the soccer and then some football Got select team all Jram, we got basado. This one's again for the Phillies mark apple Phillies rookie pitcher Charlie Blackman You guys check out that link for a museum collection First break with spots Parasa rookie throwback prism natto Pagaro, um refractor rookie Um, there's been a couple of the mark apple autos, uh, francisco alvarez Um, I don't remember after that I think there's been two of the base mark apple autos, uh xyrix I don't know about color There's one to 199. We got Phillies brice harper aqua some good timing there Got brice harper to 199 on the aqua. O'Neill cruise prism. Alexis Diaz fuchsia My eyeballs thought it was red for a second. That's fuchsia tristan casas Brother, did you ever see Aaron judge's high school statistics? No, what do you think like 900 three sports Gunner hinders, I didn't know baseball and basketball Machado to 399. I'm sure it's ridiculous Rushman Yeah That's absurd go wave It is go wave joey weimer number to 50 for the brew crew Not bad. They're only rookie auto brewers 45 out of 50 weimer even the basketball numbers for Nelson belasquez. Yeah, he looks like uh, erin gordon I remember that back in the day. He always looked like erin gordon. He's like, he's huge. I think you can play basketball It's craziness, man like I like to be that far ahead of everybody in high school like I can only imagine Game arena rookie insert got a prism out to vey and refractor crawford He's adopted too. How is he? Yeah, interesting Donner soccer team all how'd he even seen that one yet? Yeah, I'm down Jeremy pain.  Oh, no, I guess it's not as much as regular Donner's Cards wise. I hope it was team all yeah I like it. I like the idea Roy got a future stars hunter green Prism Steven sent him always down for some soccer jazz chism Yeah against Orlando city last night Stars coming in yeah because they want to win I guess but Hey, I think I'm happy auto drew waters to 499. Yeah, they uh, you know the mls might turn into something real people are watching soccer because I'm s&l That's for sure. Nice one. They're royals keeping it going man. We had a lot of royals on this so far But I'm doing it. Oh, yeah Yeah, I mean you like even when he was scoring against my team yesterday. I was like, I was kind of sick It's like what so awesome to see never thought that dude the espn and sports center and all that they are loving it And they are only talking about messy. There's a prism marquez Uh schwarburg it makes sense though. I mean certainly having anybody in mls to talk about that much Oh the shame. It's terrible Oh, yes Oh, yes Technicolor burns There's a morale prism and refractor eloy Oh, yeah, chrome desk on tops chrome on prism Anything really shiny. I'll get you going Shay, did you get sick at all? Technicolor gunner Scherzer refractor jp crawford I'm ready guys three more box number six What's up timmy Evening sir evening Yeah, I'm wondering if you guys got sick because there were so many people there if it was just like the hours and I mean in the others in that situation, you're probably never gonna pinpoint on what it was, but it could have been Being in a building with a hundred thousand people. Yeah, could have just wore out or ourselves out All of us did Alvarez Got a josh young rookie Got Riley green throwback and blue lava. It's adley ruchman on the blue lava auto Boom there it is here you go joey Joey with the o's joey well mag this one for you sir nice hit there adley on the blue lava to 150 Very nice hit there congrats joey joey very nice Got vato refractor that is sick. I love that lava design too, man Yes, it is lengths and yes it is Adley's a beast man It would he win a over to the year if he was eligible I know he isn't eligible because he played too much last year, but I think I think gunner's almost having a better batting year, isn't he there's a prism scherzer refractor masataka Gunner's been driving in some runs.  Yeah Yeah I was Gunner Henderson. I was drinking And there's a nice one wandered at 299 drinking too much Michael Grove rookie Bobby witt you got to do the hair of the dog. So you got to still be drinking.  What kind of bottle? I know I asked you pretty often what uh, what we're sipping on tonight There's a mic trout prism refractor rookie of terrain Yeah, they do Shane. They don't even have Jackson holiday up yet Top one or two prospects. There's a rushman There's a Michael Harris rookie Yeah, they're set they're set up for sure for some some long success. I would say Ooh, nice one there is von grissom to 499 nice hit there for the braves On the rookie auto out of ovito Nice von there for the braves john gray refractor Yeah, he's gonna he's gonna be a beast man Jackson ain't no uh Ain't no fake hype Jordan Walker that dude can hit Looks like he's 10. Yeah, he does look like he's 10 for sure Cal Stevenson prism rookie his little brother is 15. I think he looks like he's like older than Jackson His brother play too. Yeah. Yeah, his brother's uh, his brother's probably as good as him. Really? He's only 15. I think or 16 He's in holiday future stars Stephen Kwan And a von Herrera refractor rookie Oh, he never got up yet Langston. Uh, they'll probably wait till next year. That's just kind of what they do with, uh, rookies Especially big ones. They kind of wait on them and then Give them like a full year Get their uh, get their actual clock starting a little later. There's a josh young rookie and auto is leovapigaro for the pirates rookie auto Mgp five and nine year barrels estuary reeds sound strong If nothing else smoke wagon uncut unfiltered that sounds uncut unfiltered sounds like it's strong Rory told him too when he gave it to him.  I forget we were gone. Massey forest came up. I was like, hey, man I took a shot of that I took a shot of that whiskey that uh, rory gave me. I said, yeah I think it was man. It was everything he said and he goes right at the end pow Gotcha. It's like it was spicy.  I like that josh younger fracter nice one there and some nice refractor rookies Yeah, I heard that too. I heard uh, it was mostly like my home So we're looking for a lot of my homes, but baseball wise I heard that was it was very popular. Yeah Corbin burns technicolor There's kodai sanga prism refractor miguel All righty guys. We got two left cops chrome jumbo That's funny. We are quite ahead of schedule here. So your description was perfect rory Thank you. Lee grab the spot and one football for tomorrow Um Pick your team for troi. Thank you troi and the upper deck. I think we might be close on upper deck might be one left And uh christopher grab some spots and legacy appreciate you guys Let's go box seven Come on come on Shohei dominated I could see that I could see that that's probably one of those guys where it's like Probably doesn't move quite as much because like everyone who has them is overvaluing them like not wanting to move it because they know Like what what he is I feel like that's kind of kind of like he's kind of in that range where it's like Even if you see a comp some people are like, ah, well, he's gonna be higher Just because shohei is the most insane baseball player we've ever seen add the ruchman rookie. There's a josh young rookie There's a kasas throwback and prism pascatino Sayang Shane refractor Yeah, you watered down a little bit. I feel that rory some some barbons are like that where Add just even one rock to it. You're feeling a little better about it Not quite as powerful. There's a josh young and purples nelson valaska is the 250 rookie for the cups tray turner They're selling out. I can see that too. Shane. I guess I guess some people didn't want to miss it Maybe that could also be a thing where it's like you see a nice shohei card. You might not see it again So you're willing to pay Pretty much whatever the ask is for it I saw a I think a base. What was it a base chrome 10 was going for like 13 1400 the other day Which is craziness. Hey nice one there. Mike trout negative. These are sweet-looking cards Got a tovar prism refractor arayas Hello vaughn Yeah, I I agree. Uh rory. I believe you know what you're doing with the bourbon Mr. Bourbonopoly. Yeah There's a salve Perez the 75 wave I hear that Shane I hear that for sure cj abram's Entire showcases that are dedicated. That would be sick. I would love to have a shohei showcase my showtime case Yoshida 12 15 to 1400 that's crazy man for a base chrome in the ps a 10 Morel There is the 299 we got linen sosa rookie.  I like the uh these came out a week or two ago The new tops chrome jumbo. They got a really good design this year. I'm I'm happy with it Jordan Walker rookie cj abram's future stars refractor alec thomas Yeah, I've seen uh, I've seen some yankees fans trying to get cody bellinger They've been talking about cody bellinger. Hopefully the cubs can keep them. There's a prism bubba thompson refractor rookie diran Yeah, i'm surprised p crow hasn't been called up yet. I'm surprised p crow hasn't He's had some pretty solid uh Pretty solid minor year league years future stars spencer strikeout prism, uh, pooholts raffi for a baby rookie Yankees got a prism randy a rosa reina. Yachty leave axon Oh one in the eighth. That's exciting game. Has he heard a one in the eighth? Riley got carlos pares on the rookie white socks auto white socks are picking up a lot of autos here, man Pares this time nick prado rookie refractor No one's in the running for show. Hey right now the running has ended at the moment Volpe Corbin carol The rays the rays were never in the running. So there's a freddy freeman technic color. It's a prism u darvish People are saying you want to stay on the west coast, man. There's no better west coast than gulf coast Exactly. Come on, man. Come on ain't no better west coast than fort meyers beach Clearwater Here's michael harris rookie. Yeah shohei would love clear water, man. Yeah Such clear water. Yeah, technicolor michael harris. I remember the first time I went there. I was like They're not wrong. No, I think this it is beautiful. That is named for a reason This is the most clear water I've ever seen I love the whole Tampa area Fox eight guys last one Yeah, that's fire. I know my friend lives in there in the heart saint pete And I went down there last time went down there was the uh, they had the saint pete grand prix And we got in this kayak he has a little motorized kayak and we were driving to where it was and we could see like the cars going around Like outside of it in the water. Really? Yeah, because you couldn't even drive through saint pete. It was a mess But really you could like you could kayak around it See everything Fox eight guys So that's some work to do on uh soccer coming up here in just a minute guys an hour or two That's a museum collection soccer and impeccable first off the line. That'd be the first uh First time we're opening the first off the line Aaron judge auto this one is gracing rodriguez the 299 nice one. They're orioles I don't think i've seen a gracing rodriguez one yet Nice gray rod rookie could picture for the orioles the 299 Simeon woods refractor Got married on sannabelle. Nice. I have been to sannabelle a few times where that's a beautiful place sannabelle captiva Right next to each other. Oh sir. Yeah, really nice masataka. Yoshida such a good time over there There is 2 399 mark stroman. I know the uh, the bridge kind of got washed out in the last big hurricane There's a gunner. Uh, hunderson rookie. I'm sure they fixed it by now, but uh, I was kind of crazy. I was surprised So we've got a whole bridge Yeah, they were playing it was the white socks cubs wasn't it? Yeah, they were playing in Nice, we got radiating rookies orioles again. This one's gunner hunderson We go ohs. Well mag this one as well gave merino prism prism joe ryan and mounty I thought uh I thought regularly was relatively clean when we went Relatively a lot of people running around for sure There's a josh young rookie There's matt chatman number two uh, 299 purple speckle for the uh, blue jace nick prado prism refractor zach wheeler I thought was cool was the uh, the rooftops the wriggly rooftops across the street. I thought those were a cool thing. Yeah, I don't know how much it is to like Go hang out on one of those like I'm guessing a decent price chris morel Got a prism lindore, but they seem pretty cool ryan sandberg on the prism rookie refractor rookie Hey nice xyrix. I pulled two of the morel Um radiating rookies back to back knights last week. It was kind of crazy To 23 on those radiating autos. I was kind of surprised As refractor auto to 499 will brennan guardians and refractor brice harper Brett baby rookie I got just so it's mostly private uh Private houses. They just open up future stars torkelson God is equal to rhan on the prism rookie And langlier's rookie refractor Yeah, that'd be straight of you paid like a set price to get in and then a couple people get drinks and Food, whatever There's a vulpie corbin carol Here's auto anderson espinoza rookie auto their padres A horseshoe shaped bathtub That's interesting A nice trough Yeah, there's some there's some seriously old baseball stadiums man I know they're like continuously doing work, but Future stars rookie You're gonna uh Have to see some age Shane it was yeah, I wouldn't be surprised it was well over a hundred thousand from beginning different days Yeah from beginning to end it was well over a hundred thousand jordan walker rookie So it's like saturday the most crowded just because weekend or everything. Yeah, I would have said that Like for raza friday was That's good for the hobby. Oh, yeah That's awesome People hanging out trying to just see the wheel and deal knucklehead tiktokers running around. Oh, yeah Francisco alvarez technicolor. You got a adley rushman rookie and casus rookie there looks like media day at the super bowl Honestly, you know all the cameras run around Everywhere the media day at the super bowl man. Just got to get everything last pack guys Do a hit recap here a jordan technicolor Got prism sayang shane and refractor robby ray on the back. It felt like a shame All righty guys that will do it for um Full case number 12 do a hit recap here on the autos We had base auto anderson espinoza padres Carlos pares white socks peguero Apple got riley green rookie for the tigers Perez again cal micho pirates mark apple fillies got jihuan bae pirates Carlos pares And michael massie got to 499 will brandon rookie auto. We got von grissom to 499. I said they're braves um drew waters drew waters got purple to 250 balasquez purple to 299 gray rod For the o's we got linen sosa and linen sosa to 250 Uh nice one there morel for the cubs of 250 Got blue to 150 bow nailer got gold to 50 for the cubs justin steel Um gold joey weimer we had orange on the uh jersey amuse jersey cranky to 25 We've got gunner hinderson on the rookie um radiating rookies And nice one here adley ruchman to 150 on the blue lava auto Some o's hits there for sure Alrighty guys that will do it for tops chrome jumbo eight box full case number 12 get these cards right out to you


I'm Josh Mandel, Director of Policy and International Programs at Halsey on Incubator. Thank you for joining us. I'll be your moderator for today's global innovation through science and technology or GIST Tech Connect conversation on gamification, making your product engaging and fun. So gamification uses elements of gameplay, often on websites and within apps, to motivate and engage customers, to generate buzz, and to make products fun to use. Entrepreneurs in many sectors have incorporated it into their product design, marketing, and customer engagement strategies. It can also be used internally within a business to motivate employees on certain tasks, leading to increased performance and better teamwork. So remember, you can join our discussion by sending us your questions and comments through the chat space next to the video player or on Twitter using hashtag GIST Tech Connect. And on that note, we thought we would add a little gamification to today's web chat. So whoever tweets the most about this program over the next hour will get a special shout out at the end. And if you include a photo of you or your group, we'll show it. Just make sure to include hashtag GIST Tech Connect. So looking forward to seeing all of those tweets. So let me begin by welcoming our panel of experts. I'm joined by Elena Bertotzi. Elena is an associate professor at Kinepac University, specializing in game design and development. I'm also joined by Mandy Holford. Mandy is associate perfecter at Hunter College and CUNY Graduate Center. She's also a co-founder of a startup software company called Killersnails.com, awesome name. So thank you both for joining me today. As we wait for viewers to send us their questions, I'd like to kick off the discussion by asking you to tell us a little bit about your own experiences with gamification. And how can startups use it to make their products more appealing to customers? Elena, let's start with you. We're also going to show a clip from one of the interactive games you created. Hi. Thanks for having me on the show. So my work is focused on using games to address intractable problems. So things that are very difficult to address through traditional means, we can find a way to deal with them using games. So the product that we're showing now is the My Future Family game. And the problem that we are addressing here is that it's very hard to get good data about young people's family planning intentions in India in order to better inform them about human sexuality and reproduction, and also encourage them to be able to use birth control methods. So as we know, India has a very large population, and they're trying to control that population. And past methods of trying to change people's behavior have not worked very well. So the goal of this particular game, which we feel tested in India, is to collect information from young people about what their intentions are and also give them information about how human sexuality and reproduction work, because they're not getting any information about that at home or in school. And then we will further go back with an expanded game to actually teach them about birth control methods. So our goals here were to get good data about family planning and to give them information. And we really validated this game as a tool for doing both of those things. Thanks a lot, Ellen. Mandy, can you tell us a bit about killer snails and how you use gamification? Sure. So killer snails, we use games basically to teach science. And our logo is Games Down to a Science. Killer snails are these snails that feed on fish, worms, and other snails. And they have a venom. They're an example of extreme biodiversity. And so our first game, Assassins of the Sea, because these snails kill other things, uses the games of the venom of the snails to teach kids what the snails do, how they feed. We have both an analog and a digital game that you can get from the website, killer snails.com. And what we're trying to show students is how the venom from these snails can actually be used as potential cures to treat diseases, such as cancer and pain. The first drug from these snails is out in the market right now. We're also developing a VR game because we'd like to both enter the classroom using cardboard, using digital, and using VR to get students really excited about the content. And we try to say that you learn through mechanics. So by building the game, we're able to show them the content of what these killer snails are doing, what their venom is doing, the potential for drug discovery, and not just our snails, but we're hoping to expose them to all kinds of extreme biodiversity. And so that's why we're sort of co-op killer snails, because our company wants to reflect what nature is doing in the classroom using real science built on the science from my laboratory that we are bringing into the classroom and using games to teach what scientists are doing currently. Thank you, Mandy. So still ahead, we'll ask our panel of experts to tell us what resources are available to learn more about gamification. But first, let's dig into the poll question we asked on social media in the days leading up to this program. So we asked, what component of your startup could most benefit from gamification? So you can see the results on the screen. So the top answer was increasing customer engagement at 35%, followed by marketing, then making your product more fun to use. So looking at that data, Mandy and Elena, I mean, what are reactions to the poll? Mandy, let's start with you. OK. So the poll actually speaks to why we started this company. We wanted most middle school kids are falling out of science. They're finding it boring. They don't think it's for them. And so our idea of how we should teach science, because the studies show it's not what we teach, it's how we teach. So we wanted to use games to teach it more effectively. And that's basically what we've done in creating our first game, Assassins of the Sea, which we piloted in several middle schools throughout the US. And with the virtual game, we're hoping to go even broader. But gamification is a very effective tool, not only for making sure that you get your content out there, but if used wisely, studies have shown that it can increase learning, especially in school students. And so I think that the results are not that surprising, because it's sort of in line with what we found with our games and what's in line with what the field is finding. I'm sure Elena also is finding similar things that most people are using gamification to increase content engagement. What do you think, Elena? Yeah, I agree with Mandy, and I'd just like to say that one of the key elements of gamification is to make sure that you really know your audience and you understand them and what they want. So the way games work is by making the player enjoy the experience.  And in doing so, you have to understand your audience and what they want and what they need. So for example, in our game, before we built the game, we went to India and did focus groups on these kids so that we could really understand what motivated them. And they told us, listen, we want to use birth control. We would love to, but we don't know how it works. We don't know how bodies work. And so that really helped us because we're like, oh, we can motivate people to play our game by giving them the information they want and need in the game. And so in order to do gamification well, you have to make sure that you are giving the player something. It's not just about what you want. You have to really understand what the audience wants and how you can build that into the product that you're creating. Right, I would agree. I'd say you have to do a lot of customer discovery before you think about what elements of gamification you'd want to use. Great, thanks to you both. So now we'd like to ask our online viewers a question.  Is it social media, your webpage, physical location, special events, something else? So please answer the poll that should be on the screen now and we'll read your answers off later in the program. Now let's take some questions from our online viewers. So Michelle Samuel asks, what industries are most likely to see gamification yielding significant results in customer engagement? I'll take that just because I work with health care. And health care is a really, really big field for this right now, especially. So for example, the Games for Health conferences, both in Europe and the US, we have a lot of government representatives coming and saying, listen, health care is an enormous growing expense, right? So we know that obesity and diabetes and lack of exercise, for example, are all conditions that can be changed by modifying human behavior. We don't need new drugs. We don't need necessarily cures for things. We have to successfully convince people to modify their own behavior in a way that's beneficial to their health. And in doing so, a lot of other things will also reap benefits from that. And this is a great example of the people's goals and the institutional goals are the same. Everybody wants to be healthier. And so that's why gamification can be a very powerful tool in this sector. Great, thanks, Elena. So let me ask another viewer asked, what are some of the first steps a startup can take to utilize gamification? Mandy, you want to take that? Sure, I'll take that. And so I think that sort of builds on what we were saying earlier. The first step is you must know your customer. You must know the audience. You must know who it is that you're trying to engage with and build this game for. And so in our experience, we are trying to target students. We also are looking at the late public, but primarily we're targeting students because we want to teach science effectively. And as Elena was saying, one of the key areas in which gamification has shown it's very successful is in the health care field and through behavior modification. And learning is the behavior modification, right? So if we can teach kids how to learn science more effectively, then they're able to do so. So the first step is know your customer. So do a lot of interviews. Top, top, top, top, top, top a lot. Not quite a nice moment. Go to the classrooms, talk to the students, talk to the teachers, but we not only want to show the students how to learn effectively, we also want to help the teachers how to get into the content in a more real way, in a way that will transfer to the learning process in a more effective way. So we have an assessment tool also that we use with the teachers built into our games. And it all came through conversations and going out and knowing your audience. So before you even show them your first product or picture first idea, ask three questions. What are your challenges? If you had a magic wand, what would you do? And then the third, who else in this space should I talk to? Before you even start to design a game, get out there and ask those questions of your potential customers. Great, thanks, Mandy. Looks like we have a question from Embassy Monrovia. How can a struggling business use gamification to grow? Well, I can, I mean, one of the things that I'd add on to what Mandy just said, I mean, I'm a game designer and I teach game design and development and I'm always surprised when people try to do gamification interventions without a game designer. So your gamification strategy is only as good as your actual game or the product that you're using to try to engage players.   You know, games are actually kind of expensive to design. So it's not something that I would suggest that you just do again on a whim. It's something you really have to plan, right? What is the intractable problem or the challenge as Mandy said that you're trying to reach and how can you best use games to reach that challenge? It's not always the best solution but you definitely wanna start with someone who understands games and can help you come up with something to address the problem that you have. Yeah, we like to say learning through mechanics, right? Because you need, at the heart of it, the game must be fun, otherwise no one's gonna play it. You're gonna make a game that won't sell and it'll just sink your company even further. So the thing that was struggling will turn out to be dead unless you do a lot of planning. And at the heart of it is the mechanic of the game itself. So Eleanor's completely correct. You must have a very legit game designer on board you must understand how that game is gonna tie to your content and how it's going to feed customers to you and to your products. So throwing snowballs doesn't say anything other than how you can throw balls. If you're going to play baseball, that's great but if you're trying to teach kids about biodiversity, wouldn't work at all. And Mandy, let me just ask this next question to you as well. I mean, what do you see as the latest trends in gamification? Ooh, VR. The latest trend is definitely VR and how do we get immersive and how do we get to moving beyond the digital screen moving beyond the cardboard, which is all very nice. And by cardboard, I mean analog games that you play like Monopoly. Those are all very nice and each one of those pieces have a particular setting family or classroom. But the VR and what's coming with VR is really exciting. Google cardboard is in all of these classrooms and we're trying to develop content to meet that need. And what VR enables is for you to have empathy with the subject that's there. You get to have a one-on-one experience but in the classroom, you're still with the group. And so I think also for the work that Elena is doing how do we teach behavior modification which is the big area that we've seen gamification have impacts through VR. There are companies that use VR to teach for healing. So soldiers that came back from war that had, I think it was burn issues. They have VRs that have them in the North Pole and it shows that the pain that they're feeling substantially decreases. So there are lots of areas in which immersive technology like VR, it can come in and actually help facilitate learning and also facilitate science. So there are projects like Project Eve and our project discovery that Eve is running where you can help actually scientists decipher information by going in and looking at data and trying to figure out patterns. So there's a lot of very cool stuff coming and I think if we can conquer how we make VR number one cheap, number two accessible, then it will be definitely the next level of where gamification goes. Thanks, Mandy. And we have a question coming in on Twitter from Ronaldo Viejos. I've been working in sales for 13 years. How can gamification help us keep the pace with all the new tools and trends so that we can leverage and use them in our business? Well, once again, the problem with a question like that is that it really is about the business trying to sell more and I'm always cautious about that because it doesn't look like you're really doing anything that's gonna benefit your consumer. If all you're really focused on your sales, you really can't use gamification successfully because people are smart and they figure out right away if they're being manipulated. So what I would suggest to him is really think about your customers. So if you want to engage your customers, you have to give them something they want and they need and you have to talk to them and figure out what that is. So maybe they would like something, whatever product you're selling, if you can figure out from them, what could you give them that would help them use your product or make that product more compelling for them? That's a way to approach it. So gamification is really thinking about the player and the player's wants and needs and not exclusively about what you're trying to get out of them because otherwise it's manipulative. Right, thanks, Eleanor. So for those of you just joining us, you're watching the Just Tech Connect conversation on gamification, making your product engaging and fun. I'm joined by an amazing panel of experts, Eleanor Brotazzi and Mandy Holford. We're taking live questions from viewers. You can submit your questions through the chat space next to this video or on Twitter using hashtag Just Tech Connect. Ellen, let me just turn to a quick question for you. What resources are available to learn more about gamification? I mean, what resources do you like the most? Well, it's become such a huge industry now that there are all kinds of web resources. So there are websites, there are textbooks. I just got another email this morning about a conference in Finland called Gamathon where, I mean, more and more resources are available to people. I would just, I mean, as a person who's spent a long time in this field, I see a lot of mistakes that people are making and one of them is not really being clear about what you're trying to achieve with gamification. So a really good way to start thinking about it is to have narrow focused goals and then metrics that you contract to see whether or not the intervention is working. And so if you start there, I would look for any kind of gamification resource that doesn't suggest that you do some broad based general strategy where you're just making noise basically in the water and not really achieving whatever goal it is that you want. So as Mandy pointed out, the mechanics are everything. So whatever the player is doing as a result of the gamification should be related directly to what you're trying to achieve. So if you want players to exercise more then the mechanics should be about movement. If you want players to eat less then that's a challenging mechanic to come up with. So you really want to think about, how are you going to measure efficacy and then tailor your research into how to do it around your specific narrow goal. So Eleanor, just to quick aside, is there, is it reasonable to say that there are a lot of startups out there that just should not be considering the use of gamification? Yes, I mean, for me I see a lot of, so there's so much hype around this topic right now. Everyone is trying to do it. People are trying to do it without game designers which is a recipe for disaster and without really understanding that it has to be a shared goal. That you have to try to achieve something that's both good for the player and for the person who's organizing the gamification. Otherwise it's not gonna work because people understand that you're just trying to manipulate them into spending more and they leave and then that's a big take for you. Got it, thank you. And Mandy, I've got a question for you. Do you think gamification can be used on the marketing side of a business to aid in better customer understanding? Oh, absolutely, yeah. I think that the advantage that gamification gives to companies, it gives them this fun new way of branding that also enables them to take customers places they can't go. And so again, going back to VR where I think gamification is going, they're really cool companies, especially VR and education, like First Playable and Shell Games, which are taking students places that they've never been in a classroom. And that's what you want to do, I think with gamification. You wanna provide an experience that people won't normally have that will link to your product in a positive way but also reinforces what your product is trying to do. For example, in our space, it's education. So we're trying to really excite students about science. We're really trying to excite the late public that science is cool, science should be supported. And not only that, science is useful. So the science that happens in my lab can potentially lead to new drugs. And so we wanted to make games that showed how we can use science to help society, how biodiversity is involved with that because we're getting the tools for these new drugs from venomous snails and how venomous snails are cool. Who would think that a snail could eat a fish? Nobody, but they actually can. And why is that? That involves evolution, that involves taxonomy, that involves a lot about chemistry in terms of the venom. It involves biology and oncology. All of those subjects can be taught using a very smart game, again, in which we use the mechanics. And by mechanics, what we mean is how you play the game to reinforce the topics that you want to teach. And it's similar to the health field. And I think that's why the health field has really exploded with gamification because the games that have been successful, like the one Elena was describing in India, are ones in which you really incorporate a content with the mechanics that people are gonna do that will remember, oh, cool. I think snails are now the best things in the world. And it's because they're the assassins of the sea and I've played this game, I've learned about their venom. And so I think what we really need to do when you're getting ready as a company to market your business and you think you want to use gamification, Eleanor is correct, think about what is the content, the most important content you want to get out there and then have a brainstorming session with a group of designers, some specialists in the field and then interview some customers, first of all, to say, where is your pressure point? What do you need? How can we help you and how can we align our products to ways that are going to help further your issues? So with students, we found that the pressure point was how the content was being introduced to them. And for teachers, we found their pressure point to be how can they grasp the content in 45 minutes and convey it to their students? So we wanted to make games that were going to be short enough that they could be used in a classroom, but expansive enough that they excite your mind and create wonder about science and inquiry and discovery and make you want to go out there and jump into the ocean and dive. And so I think the best strategy for if you're a company and you're thinking about how to market using gamification is what is your best, brightest tool and then does this tool match with what the pressure points are that your customers are saying? If they don't, then gamification in this particular way might not be for you.  Well, Mandy, thanks. You've certainly been successful in increasing my interest in snails, so success. So thanks a lot. Coming up, we're gonna ask our experts about the most common mistakes they see startups make when attempting to incorporate gamification and how you can avoid them. But first let's go back to some questions from our online participants. So another question from Embassy Monrovia. What are the major challenges to using gamification in a low-tech or low-bandwidth environment? Great question. Who would like to take that? Great question. I can start. You start, Mandy. Oh, well, Alanya, I'll let you start because you did your project in India. So that was a huge issue for us, right? So we use a software called Unity to do game development and so Unity allows you to make a build that either goes to a phone or a tablet or a web browser-based system. So one thing, again, is really interview your customers and figure out what they've got. So when we were in India, we realized that basically none of the people in our target group had cell phones. So that meant that the only way we were gonna be able to get the game to them was to put the game on Android tablets and then actually get the Android tablets to the kits. And so that's a really huge challenge for us in phase two that we're addressing in a variety of different ways. But the thing that I work on really specifically is coming up with low-cost, low-budget games that actually are able to reach people in all different parts of the world. And you really can do it because even if people don't have their own cell phone, usually you can find a way where they can access some kind of media device that they can see your product on. So again, the critical thing is to conduct focus groups so you understand what kind of technology does your audience have and then make a build. Again, I know, Mandy, it's true that VR is a very great, high-potential product but it's insanely expensive right now and it's really expensive to build good content for VR. So realistically, most of us are not gonna be making VR content in the short term for projects like these, right? So you wanna find someone that understands how to build even a good 2D game as opposed to even 3D that really is able to communicate and get across what you want if budget is an issue. So you have to think about what technology does your audience have and how can you build a cheap enough game on a platform. So like we could make a beautiful 3D game but then the tablets that we have would not be able to run that game because they don't have enough memory for it. So very often you have to sort of reduce the quality of your product to match the technology and the budget that you have. But the thing about games is, you know, if you think about like Tetris or Angry Birds, even very low budget games can have a huge impact if you've got a good designer. I would just like to add that, yeah. I think if cost is an issue, then story becomes even more important. So you must have a very engaging narrative and if cost is an issue, then you don't have to do VR. You could also do, you know, analog games. So Monopoly and Scrabble are still one of the best selling games in the whole world. And so if we can able to design some of the games that we're doing digitally but incorporate them into analog, which is sort of how we started. We started with an analog game, Assassin's of the Sea and then we transferred it to digital simply for the fact that most classrooms can't afford to have a VR cardboard viewer that Google and the phone that comes with it. So we wanted to know how can we reach the classroom in a way that was affordable so that it could scale. And that meant using analog games. But it didn't mean dumbing down the content. You could still do very smart games, very smart learning games. You have to tie it to a convincing story. You must have a very smart mechanic and you have to be very focused and structured in how you design your game and still make it engaging using analog, which is like regular board games. And if your budget then scales up, you can go into 2D and 3D and digital and VR. The hope is that VR becomes something that's actually accessible because you want everyone to have these experiences. All right, thanks, Mandy. And we have another question from Ibra Roscoe. Are there best practices to use gamification to promote healthcare linkages with the healthcare providers other than hospitals? Well, there is a lot. I mean, again, we have whole conferences on these. So there's a Games for Health journal, Games for Health conferences and lots and lots of papers that have been written on best practices. But I would just go back to, again, making sure you've got a narrow focus. So most failure occurs when people try to achieve large scale, difficult to measure change. So one of the best games that we built that with actually really specific measurable content was we designed a game to convince kids to get a flu shot. So the kids played the game in the waiting room of the pediatric clinic and then we were able to assess who got the shot and who didn't immediately after seeing how they played the game. And we had wonderful results from that, right? So 80% of children ended up getting the flu shot that had played the game because they understood why it was important and we made them want to get the shot. And so that was a really big challenge, right? How do you make a kid want to get a shot? So that's an example of an intractable problem and then you can create a game around that that really makes them understand. So I'm not tricking them, right? I'm helping them understand why they want to do this thing that they don't want to do so that they actually do want to do it. And that's how gamification can be the most effective. So there are lots of resources out there and I encourage you to go look at them. But the other thing that we haven't really talked about so we've talked about mechanics which are very important in game design, you also want to make sure you've got feedback. So as the player plays, you need to give them feedback. And in healthcare, that feedback is, how am I doing, right? So what progress am I making towards my goal? And that's what badges and scores and ringing bells and all of those things are ways to give the player feedback so they know whether or not they are successfully completing progress towards their ultimate goal. So those are all things you want to make sure you've included in your game. Great, thanks, Elena. Well, we've got a question from another viewer. For some people it seems that gamification requires advanced technical skills and technologies. Is there a way startups can use simple, easy to use gamification strategies? I think for sure you can use simple strategies. Just remember that at the heart of gamification is the word game. And the first game was a game was like pebbles. Pebbles on the floor in the sand. And so it doesn't require a lot of technology. It does require that you have, as we've been trying to say throughout, a clear focus as to what it is you're trying to gamify and how you're going to do so. By working closely with the game designer, I like to work very closely with storytellers because I think the narrative is what's part of the engagement of a game. When we play Monopoly, we all want to win the money or we all want to win the property. So there must be something that grabs the player right away, right? Because at the heart of it, it has to be a game. And so if you're in a company and you don't know how to code and you don't know unity and you don't know clever and you don't know all of those things, the first thing you should be doing is figuring out why do we want to use gamification? What is the pressure point that we're hoping to address in our customers that will make gamification the tool we should be using? And then once you figure that out, you can then go and meet someone who knows clever or unity. Invite a game designer to come and talk to you guys and say, here's what we found our customers are interested in. We don't have a lot of money. We don't have a lot of resources. But we would like to figure out is this a space we can play? Is there a game that we can design that's of this budget using whatever means we have that we can present to our customers? So I think even when technology isn't the barrier, I think the barrier is creativity and the barrier is imagination. So start always first with what is the pressure point? What's the story that we can tell people that will grab them? And then how do we design that in a way that's cost-effective within our budget? And if it means collaborating and paying a game designer, then that's what you have to do to get to the technology, to overcome the technology barrier. Let me just add that. Yeah, I teach game design at Quinnipiac University and I have many colleagues that teach game design all around the world, right? And so this is a new program that is really growing all over the world and all of our kids need real projects to work on. So if you have a company and you don't have a game designer and you don't have a budget for a game designer, one thing you can do is contact a university that's got a game design program because almost all of us have students that have great skills, but they don't necessarily have good ideas. And so if we can pair them with someone that's got a real world problem, it's good for both parties. So more and more, we've got these kids coming out, they all need internships, they all want projects to work on. So I would encourage you to do some research around where you are and see if you can find a game design program and contact those people because they probably are willing to help. So there are lots of ways to get game designers involved. Absolutely true, that's how we made our first game. Yeah, that's terrific advice and very practical, hopefully for all of the entrepreneurs watching today. Let me ask another question from one of our viewers. Are there downsides to using gamification to support or promote your product? Ellen, do you wanna start? Well, the downside is that you put a lot of money and effort into something that doesn't work. And again, this is not an uncommon practice and it's because people don't think about the audience. So like when we first went and talked to the doctors about the flu game, the flu shot game, the doctors were like, well, we could have the flu vaccine and kids could shoot it out of the sky. It would be a really fun shooting game. And I was like, well, we could do that. That would be really easy to make, right? The problem is that that's not gonna convince kids to get a flu vaccine because there's absolutely no relationship between shooting the flu vaccine out of the sky and actually getting a flu shot. And so this again, it's just related to, yeah, so what we ended up doing is making a school that's just full of germs. There is like green snot all over the place and everyone sneezes. And when they sneeze, green snot is flying around the school. And so the kid realizes, wow, there are really a lot of germs around. And my body, if I wanna be close to people and get a cookie from my friend Lucy, I need a vaccine to prevent myself from catching the flu. And so again, it's a method of going where your audience is and helping them understand how they can solve their own problems. And many people who try to come up with gamification strategies really don't think about it that way. They say, oh, we'll just come up with a simple game and plug our content into it. And it almost never works that way. Thanks, Ellen. And I appreciate you showing us the wonderful snot graphics. Those were fascinating. So there's another question. Do any of the companies, this is a question actually to me. So do any of the companies that your incubator use elements of gamification? And what are some of the lessons that they've learned from using games in their products or businesses? As a social enterprise incubator, which focuses a lot on solving 21st century problems, a lot of our companies are technically oriented and use online platforms to buy, to sell their product or service, absolutely. But I can tell you that of the 55 companies that we have in our portfolio, there are only a few that I've seen using pure kind of gamification technologies. Most of the companies that we're incubating are looking for very interesting ways to visualize data and to kind of provide, make their product or service appealing to customers. But I can honestly say that there are very few that have actually used actual gamification as it's been defined at least on this program. But that's something that I'll definitely take a look at. So the short answer to the question is no, not really, which I think falls along the lines of what Ellen and Mandy are both saying is that gamification strategies for startups are not ubiquitous. It is not in order to be competitive. You do not necessarily need to deploy gamification technologies into your successful startup. So thank you for that question to me. So Ellen, I wanted to ask you a question, and this is something that you've alluded to a little bit in the previous conversation. I mean, what are the most common mistakes startups make when attempting to incorporate gamification and how can they avoid these missteps? Like you said, it can be very costly and it may not necessarily be appropriate for these startups, so we wanna make sure that they can avoid these mistakes. What do you think? Well, I tend to tell people, think of what's the intractable problem, right? What's the thing that's really hard to solve? Because if it's an easy problem or you can address it using traditional academic or marketing or advertising strategies, then do that, right? Because that's cheaper and it already works and you know how that functions. But if you've got a really difficult problem like birth control in India, for example, is a problem that we've tried to solve in a lot of different ways and haven't been able to solve it or convincing kids to get a flu vaccine or teaching kids science in school, right? As Mandy is doing. If you've got a really difficult problem, then gamification can be a way to address that problem. So in your own company, right? You shouldn't just say, okay, we're gonna use a game to sell more of our product because that's probably not gonna work. It's too expensive to build a game that would actually do that effectively. But maybe if your company has a specific niche problem or a specific challenge that you've tried other methods to address and have not been able to do, that's where you might wanna think about gamification as a place where maybe I can use this to help my customer base or my audience understand how they can address this issue differently. And again, we're talking about changing user behavior based on an understanding of an environmental challenge. So again, it can be very effective, but you have to understand the scenarios in which it can be useful. Great, Mandy, any mistakes that you've seen and any advice on how to avoid them? Yeah, I think following along what Elaine said, the biggest mistake is that everyone thinks they have to do it, right? And so it's like, oh, because it's the new cool thing, we must get out there, we must put a game. And that's how you end up with the shooting snowmans at a random target or drinking Pepsi to make a fighter jet because everyone's thinking I need to make something. So I would say again, the biggest mistake is number one, investing too early and starting to design a game without figuring out what's the goal of this game. If your goal is to try to sell more ugly Christmas sweaters or your goal is to, as in the term, as what Elaine is doing, really change behavior and modification, then what is it that people are trying to do because now you're trying to change a habit? And so playing games as a way of changing habits, you must know what it is that you're going to build into the game that will change that habit. The green snot all over the school, I love that. I think it's a very great easy narrative that kids are appropriate to and they can get. In our games, we are always thinking, what is going to be attractive to the age group that we're targeting? Because we find that in middle school is when a lot of girls especially fall out of science. So how can we make our game something that they are going to attract to? And so the biggest, I think, mistake that people make is just watching out and trying to make a game without thinking who's the target and what's the audience and how does it link to my product that I'm selling or to the behavior that I'm trying to reinforce. All right, thanks, Mandy. And we've got a question from the US Embassy in Quito, Ecuador. Do you think that you could use analog gaming tools internally? For example, creating gaming patterns and rewards for increasing a sales team result? Oh, yeah. I think they've done these successfully internally in certain companies where you try to motivate people to perform well and you try to motivate people to get excited about what the company's doing. That doesn't require anything high tech or anything like that, something as free lunch and how many activities you do. You get a punch on your card and you get 10 of these. You can go and get free lunch somewhere. So I think using it internally in the company doesn't require perhaps as much as if you're trying to use it as a way of branding the company. But perhaps Eleanor can say a little bit more. I think, well, I mean, it's great to have someone actually give us an example of what they'd like, how they would like to use gamification, because it's easier to sort of grab on to that. But that's a great example of if your sales team in your company, if you want to motivate them, then you have to figure out what do they need to become better at selling your product. You have to ask them, listen, what can we give you that would help you become a better sales person? What kind of tool do you need that would better help you sell this particular product? And then you want to build the game around that. So if the person is having a hard time talking to other people, or if maybe they think their product is too expensive, and they need to be able to discount that product in some way, you the institution probably don't know exactly what they need. And that's one reason why they're not motivated. So you can use the gamification process as a method of really understanding the basis for the problem that you're trying to address. So if you want to come up with a board game that helps the sales team be successful, a big part of the design of that game would be understanding what your team needs to be successful and whether or not you as a company are actually providing them with those tools. So that's why the actual process of developing the game and the gamification strategy can be the most useful thing that you do internally to use games successfully. Because you can only build a good game if you really understand all the parameters. And so I think some companies can use gamification itself and building an analog game or a digital game as a means of understanding how to, again, address this problem that is present for them. Thanks, Elana. We've got another question from Zankana. How can you take your game from useful to viral? How do you take that next step? Mandy, you want to start with that? That's the million dollar question. I don't think we know that. I don't think we know what makes something viral. But we do know that if you have the components of a solid narrative, like a really engaging story, if you've coupled it very closely with the need that is out there, that is identified by your customer base, if you've also taken the time to address if it will link to the format, in the tech format, is it going to be analog? Is it going to be 2D, 3D, virtual? And does it have a nice hook, right? So again, coming back to the story, I think one of the reasons things go viral is because they sort of hit us in an innate way in the gut. And so that only comes from having very engaging storylines, I think, and also very interesting narratives. But beyond that, I don't think anyone has the magic ball for what makes something viral. But it should be what we're aiming for, especially if you're a company wanting to get out and get your product sold, or if you're trying to modify behavior, like we're doing in the classroom or Ellen is doing in the health field. Right. So make sure you're building that into your game, though. So for example, we did a game with the National Institute of Health of Mexico. Again, this was a safe sex game, and we integrated the game with an online gamification leaderboard so that people posted their results. So as people succeeded in the game, and they were able to, again, this is the feedback mechanism, they were able to see how well they were doing, and other people were able to see how well they were doing, which is very motivational. So if you have really effective feedback loops, and then you encourage people to share their results on social media. Also, if people really like a game, the first thing they wanna do is share it with their friends. So if you want your game to go viral, the trick is to have a really good game and then incorporate social media as part of the publishing process for that game. You have to be careful with that because many of us are annoyed when on Facebook, when someone says, oh, please go buy my grain for me in Farmville or do the thing for me in this game that you're not involved with, and that's just annoying. So again, you have to tailor the online social media aspect of gamification in such a way that it's productive and fun, but it's not annoying, and people see it as just manipulative. But understanding how to make something that has a great story, as Mandy points out, and also makes people want to share it. So you can't make something viral. All you can do is make something so good that your players will wanna share their accomplishments with other people. Right, we've got another question from Embassy Monrovia. How can gamification be used as a motivating factor for people to learn more about a product? Well, you have to make them curious, right? So it's again, like one of the ways that we use in games when you're designing a game, you create a level in the game. And then there are all kinds of tricks inside of games. You've got doors in the distance, you've got things that look like you should open them, you've got loot drops. So you wanna design the gamification experience so that it encourages exploration and gives people rewards for exploring. So in a game, for example, you can make it impossible to go to the next level unless I have acquired a certain amount of knowledge. And that's a classic trope inside of games. So if you want people to get more knowledge about your product, then you can make a game where you have to have that knowledge in order to proceed in the game. That's just an idea. We would have to know exactly what your product is to be more specific about that. Right, thanks, Alana. So let's take a quick pause. I'd like to share the results of our live poll question. What is your preferred point of engagement with your customers? So here are your top three responses combined from our English and Spanish polls. Social media, 62%, physical location, 17%, other 14% and webpage, 8%. So Mandy and Alana, what is a simple way gamification strategy can be employed across some of these platforms? Not necessarily relegated to a single one. So I think Alana started that conversation in answering the last question a little bit. You have to build it into your game that it's a feedback or sort of that the user, when they're winning, they have a way of reporting back what they're doing, what they're finding, if they're liking it, they wanna share it. And again, this poll result sort of is in line with what's happening now in the world. Everyone is using social media. Most companies, you have to have Snapchat or Facebook or Instagram or Twitter account to be able to reach out to your customers for them to reach back to you and let them get feedback to know what's working, what's not working. And I think one of the ways of strategy for making sure that you engage across all of these platforms is just by making sure you're accessible. And that starts with having a really nice website usually that people can go to. They feel that they can contact you either via email or whichever is their preferred method. And so you have to have, as a new company starting out, you must have, I think, a very nice, welcoming website that is sort of your foundation from which you're gonna build your social media contacts and make this sort of engagement to the world and to your customers. The other thing I would say is to actually foster productive competition, right? So a lot of games are about what is my top score? How can I share my top score with others? So anyone who plays an online game is very motivated by leaderboards, right? So who's on the top of the leaderboard is my team doing well? So if there's any way you can take your client base and have them form into teams so that they can collaborate with other people and then have those teams compete against other things, then that's a way of creating a social media presence because people are constantly logging in to see how are my other teammates doing? How are we doing relative to other teams? And that can be extremely motivational in terms of behavior change. So for example, companies that have successfully done fitness things, right? So they've challenged their employees to take a certain number of steps. Like one time I called my daughter and I said, what are you doing? And she said, I'm walking around the building. I said, why are you walking around the building? And she said, well, my team is very close to being the most active team, right? In this hospital's gamification challenge, and if I do six more laps around the hospital, we're gonna win. And I'm like, okay, I guess that's working, right? Because on some level it seemed silly, but it really did motivate her to go out and walk around the hospital because she wanted her team to be successful in the hospital fitness challenge. So these things can actually work if you don't make them idiotic, to motivate people because we are very motivated to do better than the last time or to do better than another group of people. And social media can be a very effective way of publicizing those feedback loops and letting people gloat about their successes, for example, is very motivational. So creating a little bit of competition, friendly competition amongst your customers can be a good thing for your startup. We have time for one more question from our viewing audience. So this will be our final online question, again, from Embassy Monrovia. Can you share some examples of analog gamification to change a behavior? Analog, so that's sort of how we start. I can start there. Analog to change behavior, again, in the education space where we are, the behavior we're trying to change is how do you approach science? Most people are afraid of math, they're afraid of chemistry, they're afraid of biology. In our first game, we designed exactly the way that Elena was describing. We paired up with NYU game designers and NYU has a, here in New York, New York University has a game department or a concentration where you have all of these interns who are learning how to make games. And we were trying to figure out how do we teach science content in a way that would be fun and the way that students would want to react and really be accessible in the classroom. And this was tied to the fact that it budgets again. So if we want to build something that could be scalable, we have to make it analog. And card games are actually a lot of fun because not only will you get to collect the cards, you can look at them, you can share them with others. And so it became this thing of analog actually was the best way of going into the classroom, of prototyping, of testing, of getting engagement back and forth, the feedback with your customers. And so a lot of people kind of pool analog right now because they're always thinking about virtual or the big digital or 3D. But analog is one of the best ways of actually tying down the story, tying down game mechanic, making sure it works and going out with your customer to have one-on-one interaction. It also allows you to do face-to-face interactions, right? So that you can have a conversation with someone so that you can actually play the game with someone. It brings out your competitive spirit, it brings out the whole fun of the game and somebody wants to win. And you get that instant feedback, oh, I won and I have all the cards or I don't have all the cards, whatever the end of the story is. Right now, our next game, Bion Builder, is totally analog because we're trying to go younger. We're going into elementary schools. And with that game, it's basically building a food web of these extreme creatures. Who eats the shark? Who eats the squid? Who eats the plant at the bottom of the ocean? And so the best way is by building this sort of food web, literally using cards to stack one on top of the other, the kids are learning the science about how species are connected, how animals are connected, the ecology and biodiversity of what's happening in our oceans, in our deserts and in our plains. And so I'm a big proponent of analog, even though I think VR is where we're going and where it's going to be. I certainly hope that we maintain analog as a form of gamification because it really is a touchpoint for interactions, both for families and classrooms and it's a way to connect on a personal level. Thanks, Maddie. Yeah, add to that that cards are fantastic. I mean, Pokemon, for example, even is a huge phenomenon still today, but also think about figurines. I mean, if you just think about movies, right? Connecting our favorite characters, our favorite stories, people really care about having little analog objects that remind them of what's going on in other worlds. So the analog is very, very important and will continue to be, I think. Thanks, Alyssa. I am afraid we're almost out of time, but before we conclude, I wanted to ask each of our panelists because of the very wide diversity of questions that we've had today. What is the most important takeaway that you think we've discussed for our viewers? I'm just gonna reiterate what I said before is really to focus on narrow-focused goals with metrics, outcomes that you can measure so that you can see if you've succeeded. So a really big issue is people not being able to assess whether or not their thing has actually been successful because you can't replicate if you don't know what it is that you did that was a good thing. So narrow-focused, good metrics and pay attention to your audience. Make sure you're giving them something they want and need as much as you're getting what you want and need. And you, Maddie? I would say that in addition to the focus and paying attention to your audience, make sure that what you're making is compelling. So make sure that the story and the narrative and is there and that you keep it a game. The whole point of a game is that it's fun. Someone wins and someone loses. So you must keep the competition element, keep the fun element, have a convincing story, target it completely to what your customer is looking for and target it completely to what it is that you're trying to convey. If it's behavior modification, if it's learning in the classroom, make sure that those are the things through the design of the game as they play the game, those things are coming through and not it be a side product, but through learning through mechanics, as we like to say, make sure it's built into the game what it is you're trying to achieve. Right, and I just want to say one thing that struck me about today's conversation is that a lot of the advice that Elena and Mandy gave is not exclusive to gamification. This kind of advice, I think, as far as how to engage a customer, how to understand your market, how to realize what kind of technology you should be using, I think is relevant for any kind of startup, regardless of their interest in using gamification. So I think we reached a very broad audience today. But first, before we finish, I just want to thank both Elena and Mandy for joining us today. I thought you guys were fantastic. I want to offer a special thanks to everyone viewing online, particularly to the host of the viewing groups around the globe for mobilizing. We're entrepreneurial communities. We had audiences at the U.S. Embassy Quito, Ecuador, at Mate Enterprises, UTEC Ventures in Lima, Peru, the Youth Network for Reform at the U.S. Embassy in Liberia, Innovation Village Kampala in Uganda, Impact Hub Carrera in Zimbabwe, Berri Tech, Beirut in Lebanon, Impact 9 Pakistan, Impact Hub Bucharest, Romania, to name a few. We'd also like to give a shout out to Youth Network for Reform at the U.S. Embassy in Liberia, the winner of the prize for the most tweets about this discussion today. Great work and an example of gamification in action. So thank you, Youth Network for Reform at the U.S. Embassy in Liberia. So please, even though we're ending, please continue to send in questions in the chat and on Twitter at hashtag just tech connect. As our panelists will stick around for a few more minutes to answer those questions. I know I did, but I hope you enjoyed our discussion today and thanks again for joining us. Goodbye and have a great day.


These are my good friends Dominic and Dana, and together we're going to ride bikes around Western Cuba.  I don't know what I ate, maybe it was Latini when we ate two pizzas or just bad luck, but the world fell out of both ends really, and it feels like it continues to want to do so. How'd you sleep? Um, it was a long night, but I'm super grateful because I didn't have things falling out from both ends all night. Explain the sounds. Oh, I love the sounds, you can really not sleep to them, but at night the first thing that happens is like the dog choir, there were so many dogs, and then in the middle of the night there were some roosters that had lost their mind, and the roosters started growing, but it was still totally dark. Well team, luckily we only have to go 25 kilometers today. I don't know if he's going to make it. I'm going to do that on Dana's bike. Yeah. I'm going to drain myself over the back of her bike. Oh look at that sunshine on you. I know, but look at my hair. Can you get that? Your hair looks like mine. So good. Today I'm going to wear one of Dom's long sleeve shirts because I, as you can see, torched my arm. I was wearing sunscreen. I don't know what happened. Oh, God. I haven't felt this sick for a very long time. It's nice being with people though.  Nice.  I like it. Our host family, they're waiting out for us like it's our first day of school helping us get all packed up and ready to go. Gracias por todo, amigos. Gracias. We are leaving towards Vinales and our host is kind enough to be riding out of town with us to make sure we go the right way, which is very kind of him. I said kind twice. That must mean he's really kind.  It's always so good to get back on the bike. Every morning I get on my bike, I'm just like, yeah, I love this. I feel like a little kid again riding to school when I was in sixth grade or something, you know? That's where I got my haircut. Bueno, amigo, nos vemos. Gracias. Buenos dias. I'm really excited for Vinales. I've heard lots and lots of great things about this town. I didn't visit this place last time I was in Cuba. All my climber friends come here. There's supposed to be some beautiful limestone cliffs. It's also surrounded by tobacco country. I think this is where a lot of the famous Cuban cigars come from, the Pinar del Río region. Dom seems to be doing okay. Luckily we have only a short distance to go. We're going to make sure he's happy and healthy and we'll stop a lot if need be. Buenos dias, amigo. What's happening, Dom? Just taking a little rest. It's all my body can do to prevent myself from having to go to the bathroom every minute and a half. So it's taking a bit out of me.  You can hear the birds and it smells so fresh out here in these tobacco fields. I feel really bad for Dom. He is hurting big time. We are slowly rolling into Vinales. I love these jagged cliffs that just come straight out of the earth. This is so cool. It looks like we're rolling into Jurassic Park or somewhere in Hawaii. It has a very volcanic lost world look to it. We're going to see some pterodactyls start flying around. The tobacco cultivated here is used to make the famous habanos. The tobacco here is quite different to the rest of our country. The tobacco from the rest of our country is rather used to make cigarettes and cigars for local and national consumption, not to make the famous habanos. So this region, Pinadiria, is considered the best tobacco land in the world. That's one of the smallest seeds that exist in the world. After 45 days in the seabed, we get seedlings, then we put them on the fields. And most of the farmers, all turn, rotate tobacco with corn in the same field. About two months to dry. Do you want to try it with honey? Yeah. It's quite a good combination, tobacco and honey. Don't inhale the smoke. Just puff. Yeah. I really like the honey at the end of this. Can we get some more honey on here? What's the correct way to smoke a cigar?  So to have a full combustion of a cigar. And then you separate it and then you taste the aroma in the mouth. The honey is great on there. Wait. So the first word for tobacco, sorry, was koheba. So that's the first word given to tobacco, right? So that's an Indian word, koheba. That's why the name of this cigar, there's an Indian head, you know? That's like the symbol. Why are Cuban cigars so famous around the world? Is it because they're the best or is there something behind it? There are about five, let's say five parameters. First soil, quite typical. Climate, the type of tobacco, black tobacco. Farmers' experience and rollers' experience. Dealing with this plant, making a cigar for a lot of years. Right? That's it. Let's make this land the best tobacco land in the world. This room smells so good. I wish this was like smell-a-vision right now. It's got this very natural, earthy, tobacco-y smell. It's kind of a cozy smell. It's kind of like a warm blanket. I could go to sleep in here and it would just be like, ah. Look at me. Dom's alive. I'm here, back from the dead. Two bananas and about 13 orange sodas. He's a good cure, apparently. We're wandering in the fields behind the town of Vinyales. Admiring these beautiful mogotes. And this old farmer just started chatting us up.  Yeah. So we're going to his house. I don't really drink coffee, but I'm going to give it a shot. Oh, damn. That needs some sugar. Sugar makes everything better. I'm just not a coffee drinker.  Well, I said you don't get to use this word much or these two together, but there's no other description. It's tight and it's moist. Your cheeks have to go in and out. All right, now you do it. Just like she did it. Smells good. I like the smell that reminds me of my dad. He used to smoke like pipe. Is it good for food poisoning? I think the coffee in this means that everything will either get really bad in the next couple of hours will disappear completely. Hey, Obama. This place was amazing. And it just happened because we were wandering around. Sometimes when you wander in life, that's when the magic happens. It was. This was serious road magic. It was.


And the River State Police Command has paraded over 36 suspected criminals who are involved in alleged robbery, kidnapping and courtesan terrorizing parts of the state. The command also paraded two ladies among a seven-man gang involved in robbery, popularly called One Chance. River State Police Command has been counting its laurels in combating insecurity in the state. Apparently, the successes are not without adequate intelligence gathering from the police and regular tip-offs from members of the public. River State Commission of Police Friday Booker hints on a specific operation of his men that acting on credible information on the nefarious activities of cultists operating in Mao Tudubu. Operatives of Octopus Strike Force stormed their camp at Okwile Waterfront when they were about to initiate new members. However, on arrival at the scene, they sighted a police and a number of them escaped through the river while five of them were arrested. While highlighting the total achievements and items recovered, C.P. Iboka also opens up on the three alleged serial rapists who specialize in kidnapping female victims, subjecting them to rigorous sexual abuse. With the aid of technical intelligence, arrested one Monday afternoon at 7 a.m. whose GSM number was used on several occasions, the demand ran some for the release of kidnapped victims. It was arrested in Cannes. In Cannes, it looked at the material of the state. The count was responsible for the most kidnapped incidents around Wouji and then known as this. The Commissioner of Police called on members of the public to support the command in its fight against all forms of crimes in the state.


I was slated for one role, but I think there was an urgency to fill that role, and so now once my deal closes, there's been a discussion about a few other roles. I honestly don't know what the role will be, but hopefully it will be something where I can make a meaningful impact. He's one of the smartest people that I've ever met. He's one of the most intuitive people that I've ever met. He's a very compassionate guy. He said to me, listen, I'm running for president. You're halfway decent on TV. I don't need any money. I'd like you to join my campaign. I'd like you to help me. We'll go around the country and we'll tell this story about how we're going to fix America and make America great again. And I said, well, first of all, you're not going to run for president. I don't believe you. I said, moreover, I've been in your apartment. It's four times the size of the White House residents. I've been on your plane. Your plane is unbelievable. You don't have to carry the press around in the plane. Once I declare myself the candidate, we're going to start winning and then, you know, we're going to win until you guys get tired of winning. When Mr. Trump won, now President Trump, and he was putting his executive team together, he said, look, I want you on the team.  You've built two reasonably successful organizations. Help me hire the team. I said, OK. And I think that he's done an unbelievable job. This is my personal opinion, and maybe I'm biased because I was on his executive transition team of staffing the cabinet. I think that these cabinet members, whether it's General Mattis, I'm going to name them all, Stephen Mnuchin, Rex Secretary of State Tillerson. These are very accomplished people. I believe they are, and I know some of them personally. In the last 15 months, my observation was he really wants to do the right thing. I think the president, and if you just look at stock market and asset prices since his inauguration, there's a sense of confidence. I think people view the president as a pro-business president. I love the president. I've studied the stuff very carefully, and, you know, I feel like we have a historic opportunity.