g them too fast.   Are you kidding? It depends on the movie.   I wanted basic some semblance of reality.  Dude, kylo Told her parents were drunk.  She saved him. She killed all the guys She was the badass in that scene and she also beat him in the force fight. He got knocked out The throne room she saved kylo. They saved each other ray was doing horrible at one point and kylo saved her then When does kylo save ray? Uh, did you see the moment where she like couldn't even get a hit on one dude and kylo was taken? I saw the moment where she counted three of them at the same time. Is that the Yeah, she gets one and it hits three people, but what's the moment where kylo saves her? I still don't know what's she about it. By taking three guys at once durr. How is that saving her? Three guys at once. What movie were you watching? Uh, I counted dude go back and watch the scene. No, he's not He's not saying this. I think it's pretty obvious. I've seen this movie a lot more than you guys I like it. Obviously. No, you haven't answered the question yet. What how does she say?   I understand the confusion. So when we say Uh, she saved him what we're referring to is she throws him the weapon that saves his life She really just asked me when did kylo sit?  We're not talking about the snook bit He's saving her a lot in that whole sequence.  Oh my god. He's good. Then when he's like take my hand.  Oh, he didn't kill snook for ray. He just did it for himself. He just wanted to take snook's place It's like it all makes sense. It's just he killed what he his motivations are evolving because it just works Kylo should be a mystery. You shouldn't know exactly where this character is going You should be inconsistent with every scene. It's not inconsistent. He's what should we know Should we be a mystery is that I don't know kylo is fucked up I don't know why kylo of all things needs to be a mystery because if you knew his next move He wouldn't be an effective villain it'd be it'd be corny But I could know what his move is I don't know exactly how he's gonna get there, but I know what he would I would like to know what he wants Why he would make a move I don't even know what the exact move is. He's not a good villain What does he want you're not right? We don't know villains don't have to be one track. That's boring Does anyone say that? Does anyone have any tracks? He doesn't have any tracks He doesn't have any tracks. He's off the rails. Either he has zero, he has no standard motivation Really? He has no motivation. All he says is that he wants the past to die and that means nothing And he doesn't have any motivation.  Dude, he's contradicting the things that he does. He needs to be a mystery There's no contradiction there.  I'm gonna I'm gonna do this instead. I'm just gonna be a straight up. See exactly He contradicts him. No, this is the character. It's the same thing that luke did to him He feels like he's being turned down and every time someone turns him down He just becomes more and more bad just straight bad.  Let me go back to that He's bad He's bad as his motivation. I'm trying to explain it in a way that you'll get it Yeah The problem is no matter what he's evil. He's mysterious and that's about all i'm getting I'm angry. Don't get angry. The mystery is the fact that you think his motivation is one thing and then you learn it's another You think that what do we think his motivation is? What was his first motivation? You think he just wants to do this for rey when he's when him and rey are fighting those guards A part of you is thinking oh my god. He is saving rey right now. He's doing he's killing snook to save rey He is good. I never thought that All right. Well, I thought he was just like close to my mind I thought he was trying to take over Yeah, that's what I thought well, that's good because that's what he was trying to do So where's the confusion? Oh, I thought he was trying to do the other thing That's how some people some people could think that but it doesn't matter because five minutes later You know that that's not the case not not to mention the other contradiction being that that's not what he wanted He wanted to leave it all behind and then raise dismissal made him go to the thing that I thought was the thing the whole time Yeah, no he right, but he Dude his like you got I don't know what you guys are even talking about We're just paying attention to the movie, mate. We're just going by what he says and what he does You're not British. You don't have to use that word Uh, what mate what word mate? How do you know I'm not Australian?   Is he actually Australian?  How do you know? Yeah, we we've already proved the point I I just I know that you you think Kylo has a motivation. I really wish you were right Let's put it dude, even if he doesn't that's good. That's his character I like it when characters don't do anything for any reason Oh, he doesn't do anything really I said for any reason Lee.   He's tortured. He's been if that is the only motivation That's in his mind possible motivate He's in his mind.  All you just assuming stuff. He doesn't state any of this the movie doesn't state any of this That he had a grudge against luke because he thought luke corrupted him That doesn't know the second part student. He was never said He doesn't consider himself corrupted.  You're wait. How could it be his motivation if he's not aware? I think it's very possible. He's aware. Did you see how he was acting in that last scene? Did that look like a guy that like is down with luke?  Yeah, why doesn't he just leave it all behind?  Why does he want to be with rey? Why? He loves her He's in love with her That's not a thing. Don't think he's in love with her. Wait, when did that happen? No Why would you even assume that? You really don't think that he has a hots for rey? Of course not. I don't. He's joking when you said that So rey and he's kylo rey.  He's probably suppressed Say this like it's a fan figure I in Dude What was the prequel trilogy? What was the prequel trilogy? Are you going to use a different relationship as evidence that there is a relationship here? Yeah, I'm gonna say this goes right in line with star wars.  It's the same No, because right exactly because shubaka and bb8 have a relationship because that's star wars Yes, everyone has a relationship. That's what star wars is about. That's what I saw Even there's no Any any illusion to it. No scenes that would imply it. There is no dialogue that implies it. It's star wars So it's probably true. Wait, there's no dialogue that implies. What? But they're in love kylo is in in love Are you guys watching the film? Did you not see me the line? Give us a reference. Give us a reference.  What just give us a reference The I've touched plenty of women.  It was an intimate moment, dude.  No The filmmakers even said this is the closest thing to force Sex scene in star wars. You're gonna get I think ryan johnson even said that is support there. They have chemistry How do you not get that chemistry? They do.  Does ray have emotion at all? They have they have a lot in common They connected they were doing this force skyping thing because they're both lost and you know, why doesn't know she should Look up to luke kylo doesn't know if you should look up to snoke. They have something in common And and in that scene where she's covered in water Like in love with each other. That's not what I got out of it Well, it's not fully there yet. I mean they didn't kiss but all the way To check in your prediction for ray low. You don't think that there's a ray.  They also interpreted fin and pose romance That was ridiculous. Oh, that one's ridiculous. Okay. Oh, but no, but that's what I do think that's Yes, that was the dude. Do you remember the ot where there was a relationship?   That's the thing.  He's into her man. He likes her. What I'm suggesting No, I'm not on her team. I'm going meta. What I'm saying is we have absolutely listened to you're giving us barely anything to work with I'm I'm giving you barely anything. What more do you want?  We need more than that Wait, oh, wait.   It's really different from the the original trilogy, but it has a similar theme You think the original one luke and vader are the most interesting thing about that storyline They just are but when you hear i'm your father that now has become the most interesting thread We all know that and at the end of return of the jedi when luke and vader reconcile It's fucking great because that is the main thing that is driving those movies is the relationship between them episode nine The main story is going to be ray and kylo That's just where these movies are going and if there's not a romance then maybe it's like a rivalry It's something but he feels rejected. They're in love. It has to be a romance right dude. It's okay. They're in love. Fine They're not like, you know jack and and uh Rose from titanic, but so at the end of at the end of the last jedi when kylo is You know kneeling down picking up the dice and he looks up at ray and she shuts that door in his face That means I am Rejecting you you're done.   I think he wanted to be like, you know, like partners with her, but I think that's that's totally fair. That's totally fair. They're in love. It could have been either one Okay, fine. It could have been either one You could interpret it as there's a romance and you could also interpret it as no, it's not he just wanted to work with her They're both valid. I'm not arguing with that at all I there needs to be something to support the idea that he's in love with her and there's just nothing there You know what people had this same conversation in the force awakens. They said, oh Why would kylo take off his mask and talk to her maybe as a thing for her? This was been a subtle thing. I mean didn't she challenge him?  It's almost like oh That's just her resting face My suggestion would be that it's it is surprising. He's a little boy.  There just is the way he's touching her He's right up to her face. He's being all creepy. He does that to Poe Yeah, yeah, but it's different with Ray.  It's like what girl It's like he like he feels inadequate and now in the second movie There's this little added twist that no he just wants her on his team.  She beat him in the force awakens. So and in that scene he was like I can train you I mean You know whether he wants the boner or not I mean, it's it's not even relevant, but there are people that interpret it as a romance. You can't argue with it We're not arguing with people interpreting it. That's literally what's happening right now See that that's that's the best thing about this kind of shit is there isn't one answer It could be either one. I hope they do harp on that a little bit more in the next one But right now it is kind of left open and that's a good open episode nine.  This is just I'm just using like yeah, of course Why wouldn't that would be fine? From anything that's happened And she'd be like, well, I never liked you either What would you say about that though? Would that be distraught distracting for you because you're like Not at all because no because she saw the good in him and luke was trying to tell her you're seeing the wrong future Like he is bad. So he is bad. Well, no, but maybe no, no, no We're talking about kylo loving ray if they don't follow through with that an episode nine Aren't you going to be a little bit distraught because you would just like 20 minutes ago saying it's like obvious that he loves her Well, if they don't take that plot any further It would be a definite misopportunity because like you said, they they didn't even cement that there's a Romance well enough if you're really not seeing that. So yeah Then it should be in there. Yeah, I think it would be a missed opportunity if they just This leads to a good question. What is your ideal episode nine? I don't have you don't have anything in your head I don't go into beast. No, dude. I don't go into movies with like this is what I want to happen I think that is the last thing you should do when you watch any movie and star wars. I'm sorry It's the epitome of the thing that people know exactly what they want to see already. I'm not saying you guys did that You guys don't see You know some themes you want to just define there's something you want to see in it. We just did no no no I said, I want to see played out. There's relations. You have to take the story further You asked me if they don't continue it. Well, I'd be disappointed. What do you want to see continued? What do you want to see continued the ray and kylo romance? Definitely Okay, that's really it. I mean, that's that's the driving force right now other than that.  It's all good. I'm on board with these new characters. I'm invested in them at this point I like po I didn't like him at the end of force awakens. I thought we shouldn't go Hang on you opened our conversation today. We're saying that people want people want episode nine to play it safe And you said that's absolutely not what you want, right? And that's not what I mean No, I don't have any expectation about specific things like a luke better come back and fight cut that that stuff is specific You know, but if you say that that's something you do not want then there are things you want No, no, no, I don't know what I don't want. It's not I don't That's not how I go into surprise. Okay. Yeah, I want I know I'm not saying you guys are like these You know packing fan theories when you walk into film. It doesn't sound like you're that type of uh person I'm just saying No, this is what star wars fans It's star wars. We haven't had a star wars for a while before the prequels It was a really long time people had a lot of time To build this thing up in their head of what they want to see happen And I really believe that that's coming in the way of people enjoying these films I mean was the reception to the force awakens really positive though. No a lot of people thought it was echoing a new hope Yeah, dude. No, yeah, but I really liked it. Then yeah that film got overwhelming praise. Oh, yeah It got way more praise than like overwhelming praise from audiences. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah You just said a good second ago. They didn't No, dude people didn't like the movie also. There's plenty of people that are like jj ruin star wars, blah, blah, blah I don't think rags are saying everyone likes it I'm not. Yeah. What do you what are your exceptions? What do you believe the overall reaction on average was to the force awakens? I think Sure, I think at first everyone loved it and then like as months went on people started hating on it, which is Maybe you two were ruined it, right? I mean Lee actually criticized I think the force awakens is riddled with flaws. I I will harp on that till no end, but oh wait You all don't like women or minority. I'm curious What are the flaws of the force awakens that do not the there were characters that were just weak I thought hux was weak Snoke was weak po was weak Uh The scene with the wrath tar you you think kanto bite had no purpose.  That was so Wait, wait, wait. What's a wrath tar? We knew the characters were going to make out of it make it out of it The big testicle monster things Right the floating testicle And then you had this tie fighter chase which some people think is like the best scene in the movie I thought that scene had zero stakes on jack who man. She sure can't fly really well Wait, we nearly there. Why doesn't it have stakes? You just it's just I don't know it just I knew they were going to make it out It was so early in the film. It just felt like this You know, I don't know but I do really like the film force awakens is a great movie despite all the problems It still manages to be awesome and that's a feat I thought your position would have been that it wasn't great Absolutely not. It's really great. It just There are things in there that I don't love like the whole scene where han and leah are talking to each other and it's like You know, we should have never sent our son away. That's when I lost you That's when I lost you both. It's just it's like a soap opera Are you? But wait, you said it was a soap opera. You said it was a bad one. It's not supposed to really feel like a soap I mean, it's supposed to be one in disgust. I mean if you had to reject the characters That felt like a straight up like it was plucked out of the guiding light or something It just was like base opera is not a reference to soap opera. By the way, there's a different opera opera Yeah, but what do you think a soap opera is a reference to It's a bad opera. All right. So what is the relationship to Why do we call them nurse sharks? That's I can't believe you're missing a point but move on move along. It's a nurse shark. We can we can jump on the crate It's a nurse shark. It's it's not actually a nurse It's a shark His point. It doesn't matter. Uh, we so the first thing I think that we should go with cray odds Is do you have any issue whatsoever with rose saying?  No not at all. No, it's cool. So the idea that Finn was trying to destroy the weapon that was going to obliterate his entire faction Actually completes his mission. He loves him. She's in love with fin. Yeah, maybe, you know, she was being selfish But but the the line itself right the movie is trying its best to deliver that line And it deliberately shows the laser completing its task in the background. Don't you think that that's a 100 percent contradicting I don't entirely disagree with that. I when I first saw the movie and I saw fin going into that Fucking cannon. I was like, oh my god. This is incredible if fin dies right now This will be great because it's so unexpected But the fact that he didn't it's like, okay Obviously, he has a big role in episode nine and he needs to live and that's even more, you know It's just giving you something to look forward to this character had to grow He didn't need to live. Well, do you think he's any time any time a character lives? It gives me some Happy about it. I kind of hear you. I thought it would be cool if he died But I also love fin and I'm down to get more of him. He's he's hilarious. So it's like it's a double-edged thing Um, but he's a goof. Oh, yeah He's a goofy.  He's very fun. He's the fin Come on Least about fin is like, wasn't he a battle trained stormtrooper since like birth How did he become so clumsy comic relief? That's what it's like. I'm done. Did he Yeah, but hasn't he been trained? Like, why is he such a goofball? I was actually Yeah, that's on the false awakens. That's not on the last Jedi in fairness But I agree. Yeah, that's a little silly. Yeah, it's a little unlikely I'm using because I'm we're definitely attacking the logical elements Well, I mean what I just said was kind of the hematic element um The way at which rose baddages to get ahead of fin to 90 degree turn and knock him What's that about? I don't know man. It's it's a little he had the faster glider dude. She had the good Like do you get how someone would be more broken?  Do you realize how do you feel about rose Basically not asking Finn for consent. Just pushing yourself on him. Ah, come on now I don't know man But what if the roles were reversed negotiate consent in that situation? But what what if the genders were reversed? She doesn't even ask. Do you like me?  Yeah, she knows a little presumptuous Yeah, a little bit sexual assault people have gone down Well, I mean there was the actual assault of her ramming him, but there was also She was a little aggressive in that moment Didn't I mean it's a good thing luke just happened to show it up or else rose would have doomed the resistance Sure is a good thing luke showed up to save the day sort of Do you like that you showed up and he revealed to lair that he's he's a ghost subtly Which is quite cool and c3po apparently recognized it too However soon after a post says look luke got in here somewhere. Let's find an exit and lairs like yeah follow him That's like lair. You know that he came in here via ghost powers I'll be honest. I didn't even catch that that luke told her that I didn't even get that It's the look She gives him a look and I actually liked it. She knew she was like, ah, he's because she knows that's why She leaves the dice behind because they're just ghost dice You're saying very cool. Yeah, I mean, you know, but I just find it funny that she's like Yeah, kids go and look for an exit from the ghost that came here via ghost powers Yeah, I did give her ghost dice though. Like what it is. Yeah, especially ghost dice that represent the relationship between Hadid his ex-girlfriend You know At least you get to hold it for a minute. Is it right? It's it's about han's relationship with his ex But they were friends. They were cool. They hugged what enforce awakens They were fine You have a problem with the dice. Yes Oh god, it's it's really disrespectful to lair to had to a token of han's previous relationship, dude Didn't have another one neither It's true Wait, who gave han the dice originally was it that he had the dice he gave them to kira when they lost contact and then 10 years later Whenever they come back she gave them back to him The only contacts we've seen those dice in solo character. It's just So you think it's disrespectful. Okay.  She seemed to be okay with it. So it would be She has no reason to like those dice. That's not true. Maybe she's happy to see a totem of han She could be just You know, it's like han's dice, you know, I never That would have been funny if she was just like wait, what are these I never know this is These two dice represent your bottom and top half connected mechanically I don't know It's the drive shaft from the millennium falcon han solo loved it. Oh, okay I gotta be honest. This is the first time I've heard that that point be made that laia should be offended at the dice That's no, I don't know that she should be offended.  She should be like, why the hell are you handing me these giving me this This if anything it should hurt it should be like, thanks, man That's the thing I needed when thinking about all the things he could have made apparate The dice. What was better than the dice? I mean, I don't know Hell dude Like actual nothing if he wouldn't have given her anything that would have been better than the I don't agree with that. I'm sorry I think it was nice. Do you think holding a hand wouldn't have worked? It's it showed that he cared about han's death. He was sorry that he wasn't there to prevent it It was just like a little like, you know, I'm sorry about han's previous relationship. I miss my friend too Dude, I don't know why you have do you think han had like a bunch of chicks after laia or no We're going from that movie that came out solo. Yeah, we're going from the movie that exists Yeah before laia that was like way before he met laia. That was a whole point Yes, that's the point. Okay. I got you. So so kira should have been the one to get the dice Yes, if anybody should get the dice kira. Absolutely should get the dice. That would actually make for a nice moment I'm not even good. Han have not even had the dice on the millennium falcons. It was not argued Binder of the that's true kira kira should have been the dice receiver. Yeah I'm gonna assume laia. I'm gonna assume laia does not know anything about kira.  Yeah, you know, isn't luke thinks he's like doing like a good thing He's like what? I hope you die Luke's like these are the dice you guys always used, right? They represent Right held in her hand the whole time I always saw han looking at him so lovingly. I think he really liked these dice And he always used to talk about the special woman connected to these dice and I knew that was you And she's like, all right, I get it luke shut up. God. That's funny There's a whole movie there like the love triangle like kira comes back into the story I think the flaw with the dice is that it might have been A little too obscure.  Well, that's because they created the dice and then afterwards they tried to give them meaning I was gonna say I think that's what they were hoping for the people assumed They were a nebulous element of the falcon, but now we know what they actually mean If they were a nebulous element of the falcon, it would have been fine Hmm. Yeah, it's like a Yeah, they're just they're just hanging in the in the cockpit. I believe that's all they were Let me ask you guys this on them to be weird alien dice Here's a flaw. Here's a flaw that a friend of mine brought up recently that I can't really argue with Do you think all that grime on the walls of the falcon would have Appeared after the time span between solo and a new hope what grime? Oh, even just deterioration. I don't know Yeah, like it's all white and then in the new hope it's like brown yellow stain Maybe chewy was just covered in mud all the time and he was leaning against the wall. I don't know It's an outdoor vehicle Right. I mean, I think it's a good contrast between Han and Lando's character. Han Lando Lando is very flashy And we obviously try to keep his spaceship in perfect condition. Yeah, I'm mostly okay. I hope they don't ruin Lando see capes What do you mean? So what do you guys think about uh, Luke like, you know force projecting and the twist that he wasn't there and that he didn't fight Kylo, what do you what is your opinion on that? Pointless I think it would have been more powerful if he was there Yeah So You don't like the sort of Message they leave you with that, you know, the Jedi message. It's the Jedi powers should be used for defense not attacking except when you use it to attack It's the execution Luke didn't use it to attack. He was purely I didn't say Luke did Uh, but we've seen several examples of Jedi using the force to attack Of course we have and and that has been good, but that's not the only thing to do I mean, don't you think it's cool that they actually Because dude like do you think it's a new idea to use the force defensively? No, I don't know. That's the thing. They cemented it. That's been a theme and now Luke is the one to hammer that home But we knew that from the Yoda save The two is too is too Jedi in in attack of the clones by force holding the uh, the thing that count who could drop Instead of pursuing dooku. He used it defensively Don't you think if Luke fought kylo, it just wouldn't have made sense Like he felt bad for holding a saber over him. You think he's gonna fight him now It's not a point that he got reinvigorated by yoda and ray No, the point was to go forgive yourself for these mistakes. Then you're you're killing yourself over this You know, they need you to do something there Yeah, I thought that that's what it was gonna lead up to I thought luke was marching on that battlefield to fight kylo and the build-up made you think that was gonna happen And that's why it's so great It was so meta. It's like you're getting this indeed settle for a lesser alternative. Yes It just made more sense with the plot that the force awakens laid out I mean if luke is really gonna be absent for the events in that movie Then this was really like just it was just the most honest thing to do with luke, you know just to Put him on this island.    We gave like four or five earlier But i'm sorry those are you could also have a reason You can still have him had get a reason during the film's progression for him to go back Like hey leah is in danger your sister that you love she's in danger and he's like oh crap I need to go save her because i'm a good person and i'm established to be luke skywalker a character Who would do this? That that's the messianic So he thinks the way to keep everybody safe is to Be by himself because then kind of he after anybody else Well, yeah, right i mean he feels like he is responsible for all of this and if he would get involved He would just make it worse and if no luke would say if i did something i need to fix it That's what he does he does fix it by the end and it's so impactful because you have this park If all of the times he said no i won't at the end he sort of helps yeah If the whole movie was just him being like Already badass and cool doing the right thing from the beginning there would have been nowhere for it to go He would have had to been like stabbed. How do you know? How do you know that it would have there was nowhere for it to go because Because why there you could take it somewhere, but it's not going to be that strong of an arc as if he starts out down in the dumps The way that they you've walked out pretty quick. So no it wouldn't go very far It would go like an inch it would have gone as long as anywhere It could have gone the possibilities are endless with so we just keep luke badass and cool throughout the whole thing And he never changes he doesn't have to know you don't have to because I remember luke has already had his arc Right, he had a better arc in this one develop. He had a better arc in this one. Then he did the original trilogy Yes, absolutely.   That's way better than the original trilogy I strongly believe that what they did with luke was so Fucking good that it's what the character deserved luke deserved some development He deserved to have dimension make a mistake Learn from his mistakes. These are things that characters and films do if he was just perfect Like you think luke skywalker is it would have been boring. There'd be no drama. There'd be no Real interesting thing for his character to be perfect He's never perfect. He was reckless an empire I want to inject it straight into my veins because you are living in a blissful magic world What do you say?  What do you what do you mean? Some magic crazy place where you saw this Star Wars movie And you collapsed dude.  You guys are aware of that like I want to be there This is a character you're playing right are you guys aware that a lot of people liked this film? I don't care. I do read the positive reviews So why are you even talking to me then? We invited you here So you could attempt to well for starters to try the point dude I want us to know I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, but then you told me that luke skywalker is art In the last is good. Yes Is better.  That's fine Dude, it's a it's a strong arc. He really changes in this movie. He goes from He goes from a guy that's almost the antagonist Science fiction stories of all time and you're like, see it's about an old man and he lived on an island See now you're now it sounds like You're you're having this messianic view of a character Dude the throwing the same or something consistently with what's been established. It is you guys just didn't like it Do you know that like luke doesn't have to be pathetic?  It's actually dramatic. It's boring if he's just perfect We didn't suggest that this is why so what do you want that so so what so what i'm suggesting he be luke skywalker Yeah, there's no why are we? Come on. What was on luke about him? Tell me what was on luke about him the fact that he ran away from his problems for 30 years cut himself created Kylo Ren because he fucked up No, no created Kylo Ren Dude, he blames himself Kylo Ren he ran away from all of his problems And he let all the people and things that he cared about to whatever faith that they would and he wouldn't Come to help them out when it was established that they needed his help That's what we thought that's the polar opposite About what luke has been established to be. Oh, dude. He made mistakes in the other movies too. And you know, it's no no That's not the that's not what we're saying at all spilling water and me threatening to murder my family member While they sleep is two different kinds of mistakes I want to go back to me living in the fantasy world Do you guys really not know that there's a shit ton of people that think this is the best star wars film? What have we said that would contradict that statement? The fact that you think i'm like the only one living in this fantasy world If people love something as much as the people who love this film do love it Then it's obviously not the worst film in the world. Yeah, there are flaws.  I just saw glass and thought it was pretty awful, but i don't know that's i'm just thinking recently Point being the i'm hoping to get you to say something along the lines of yeah, some films are bad and they still liked I saw bohemian rhapsody recently and i and i thought it was a bad movie that i like You know, uh matrix reloaded bad movie that i like like there's a lot of shit that i know is dumb But it's good last shed eyes not a bad movie that i think it's a really great show when somebody points out a flaw in a film You'll never say oh, yeah, but i liked it as a response, right? Because you know you know now that that doesn't make any sense as a response No, i always say that dude you're allowed to like a film but think it as flaws and you're allowed to hate a film But no that's literally what he's just trying to establish How do you not understand? So how so what so how am i living in a fantasy world now?  I don't care who i have to tell her It's a thing you can interpret. Yes, it's not in stone. They don't say i love you, but it's a theory Dude in force awakens. You just said it's a theory that supports my whole point Oh my god, dude, who gives a fuck if you asked me, dude, you asked me for the one who asked Dude, okay, listen to my answer then in the force awakens people thought ray was luke's daughter or whatever It it it may still be it may not be but that was something that you could argue is in the film You could also argue that there was No, you couldn't have to alluded to her. Okay. Well, whatever people did so No, that's no then that's wrong. You can't build as a foundation your argument something that's blatantly wrong All that to the people that have these theories The theory existed that mace window was raised dad and it's like that. I don't know. I I don't care what your theory is Nothing this supports that we don't care what the crazy theories are It's subtlety something can be in a film and you can debate it Okay, you know what? It's a good example the ending of taxi driver you ever see that movie No, the ending of the film is that travis bickle survive I did a video about this on my channel travis survives according to the filmmakers But you can very easily interpret that ending as travis dying Yeah, and the whole whether or not is a is a is a replicant as well these things exist But we're your referencing doesn't exist Dude, it's possible that it will we have to see with the third movie. There are hopefully inception There is evidence supporting and decrying the idea that he's still in a dream These are things you can prove with references what the things you've been referencing are not provable No, you can't use as evidence the fact that there might be evidence in the future for Yeah, I can what do you mean? Of course you can't dude. These are things that are not fully answered just like My evidence for the fact that unicorns exist is that in the future we might find evidence for unicorns existing Okay, fine, but don't you think yeah, I know fine I know because i'm right because that's not how arguments work You have to follow these things. Don't you think it's don't you think there are some times where maybe you can't like fully make a judgment Like oh, that's definitely not in there. Maybe it is it could be I do you justify my believing in it.  I was hoping for that I think it's really relatable They could very easily undo that and it wouldn't be bad. It would all right fine. You did another twist There you go. Okay. I don't see what the relevance is Yeah, rag you disagree with that the relevance is you could still argue that it's in the film. Kylo tells her you're a nobody Yeah, okay No, no, no, there's a difference between evidence for a proposition and no evidence against that proposition being true Do you think there's no evidence that kylo and ray have a thing? I don't see there is any evidence for it. All right, fine You said Kylo was in love with ray. That was the claim Yes, there's no evidence for that in the film and maybe I was you know, uh, what's the word hyperbolic? Yeah, maybe I was blowing it out. He definitely has something for her. I mean come on. He well something can be anything That doesn't help. You know what fine we can see there may be something there may be something there might be love You could interpret it as I wouldn't go there. Is that okay? Is that better? You could interpret I'll happily concede to something but love is way too strong Okay, but you got I mean like Dude, how often do you guys spend time like listening to reviews of people that like the film? Have you do? I went through like 50 plus of them for my video Okay, but I know you do but what about you you do Vita? We covered plenty of the on eFap Right. Okay. So so why is anything I'm saying such a shock to people like this shit? Well, the stuff The arguments you've made today haven't I haven't heard yet matter. Yeah I've heard the argument that none of these things matter I've never heard the argument that Luke's arc is better in the new film than in the OT It is. Sorry. It just is. Sorry.  I'm not saying the movie is better It's just the character It's just true Dude, the character has a I liked it better. All right. There you go. I'm just curious. If you look up in a textbook You're not gonna find. Yes. This had a better arc. I like it better. Yes. It's my opinion Do you just like it? You're not saying it's like true We're talking about opinions here. Nothing's true. Your opinion's your opinion. My opinion's mine You can't say this is better than that. No one can argue that last Jedi's a better film than empire strikes back That's okay. That's what I was aiming to to find out. I think I think I don't think this is a better film than the original trilogy If that's what you thought I meant by that. No, you can never top those. We didn't say that I just really like what they did with luke. It was unexpected. It was exactly what I Like when I was watching the film and I saw him throw that saber Another moment I wanted to clap for it just made perfect sense It just it was just perfect It exactly went in line with TST. I I agree right exactly All right, I think that was a good conversation I can't believe it took three hours Time flies when you're having fun. Absolutely Uh, I need to read all of the super chats And I don't think we're gonna be covering any videos because It may be an e-fap Early next week because I can't do one post that for a while like a week What is wolf gonna be back around wolf is free on monday and tuesday, so i'm pretty sure that's how we're gonna set up but um That was the First full-on debate. I think we've had on e-fap that lasted that long. So it's beautiful. Beautiful.  Not for real. We've had I don't know if you call it a debate. What happened with tRO would you rags? It was more of a I would I would say Um, I don't know if I'd call it a debate. I think it was no, I wouldn't call it a debate Yeah, we've had we we have disagreements in house But we haven't had uh something something of that caliber and I wonder how people are gonna find it It'll be interesting to see what people think because it could we could do Do you ever do debates where there's more than one person who disagrees with you or is it always? Well, we disagree with each other a lot so a gang bang Not that I have a problem with it Uh, well, this is the first time this has happened. We've never brought someone on To uh, right because the thing is dude. It's really hard You were the the the first time me and waltz ever tried to debate someone who liked the lj They we nearly like made them cry. We were very like close to being like we felt like really Yeah, we didn't it's not like we were loud or angry, but they they got very upset very quickly So we were just like, okay. We'll just we're just gonna stop. Um, we did talk to just right at one point Was I was I that bad or was that better? I think You'll never be able to be worse than the worst of the people we covered on you. So yeah, I mean, I'm never gonna convince you guys You know, that's the thing like I Yeah, and I know I'm not no don't give yourself more credit than that It's not I know I convinced I I made fun of mauler and like a tweet once but aside from that I have absolutely no problem With oh, yeah, you did. I forgot about that. You said, yeah I just thought it was a little gloaty and I I I'm sorry about that.  That's a pretty big deal.  I don't think it's the best But But I will say this uh, you have a lot more balls than a lot of people who won't even talk to us about it Like jack saint and eric tax and like they won't even Wow, you guys are cool We are pretty cool You insulted me a little bit called me a child, but it's all right. I still like you I mean surely that that's just uh, it goes both ways, right? We're allowed to throw insults here and they Yeah, dude. I I really strongly recommend you buy battlefront.  You won't regret it at this point You won't regret it.  Yeah, go ahead. Uh, if you want to sort of It's gonna be tough, but I I think that you like challenges Why should people subscribe to your channel sell yourself to my audience? You you shouldn't I'm sorry. I'm still choking.  I got you. I got you bro. I got you well No, I just like to have fun man. I like to make jokes. I like to make fun of people that I think are being silly in this case I thought the you know the People in my last Jedi video just seemed like a really good comedic opportunity. It just seemed like easy material I was like, all right.  I mean shouldn't I be there for that? I think that'd be hilarious I was saying it's up to you guys if you want to stay if you want to I use the lube really bad. So I'll be right back go for want to see what these these guys are probably like Dumping on me. Yeah, let's definitely look at this. We'll do it. So I'll let I'll let veto give himself a little bit of a plug too. Then we'll do that There's no way you're there's no way your listeners like Think that I came off good in this. I'm sure they were just like Everything I said they just probably bounced off. Um, you know, that's okay. I don't I don't I would say they should go see your full take I think that would be fair to you Full video that explains all of your points, right? I actually think this conversation was better, but oh there you go That's just I'm sorry. I appreciate that I think we covered more ground than I did in the video. I mean by far Don't you just like yeah, if it was a fully supportive lee audience I think they would say more rags and veto care way too much for the things that don't matter Like all the logical consistency in a film that is literally about space wizards. It's insane. And then the reverse would be Lee clearly likes the film despite all of its flaws that that would be the kindest take I think on both sides of the argument Yeah, I mean look you you could say I'm a forgiving passive, you know, you could say I'm like, uh Whatever like I settle for less good things. I'm not gonna argue with that I do think the film is definitely above average. It's not perfect Uh, but you know when the prequels came out, I feel like there was a pretty solid amount of universal hate for them and You could really say the same thing about this. It's like there's a pocket of people that love it So it really can't be that terrible. It's you could you got to apply this to those movies too.   I'm actually not at all. They won't let us. They won't let us. Yeah, I'm not an infinite infinite I can't remember the last e-fap. We actually talked about star wars now. It's been a while Oh, that's cool. Okay. So I I'm sorry to bring you back into the ship. Oh, it's all good I I like talking about movies and writing. Uh, we have plenty of references to other films there We we got to talk about some things I hadn't heard of in terms of argumentation So it's all it's all like a running machine for the brain.  And you know, I I also apologize because I haven't seen the Video where you guys destroyed me so so to speak.  Wasn't this like the same thing? I mean, I Was sure that looks different. I will I will say I think that we let's just say that your video Uh, it doesn't rank anywhere near the the worst videos we covered because We thought your argumentation was really lame But uh, you weren't as malicious as some of the people we've covered as in like interesting Well, a lot of people who are their goal isn't to discuss. It's to sort of defame Yeah, like a lot of people said, you know, Jonathan Macintosh Okay, see, I don't even know that you can take that as a plus Yeah. Hey, I know I definitely appreciate that.   Holy molly.    I don't even remember why I did this but like It just gets weird. I got to keep that character consistent though. You know what I mean? Like That major Lee he he he's uh, he's he's a bit weird But you got to keep it up. It's like you guys said you want Luke to feel like Luke, you don't want this Let's take Jake Skywalker or whatever people call it Um, and yeah, just so it's so I've made sure I've done it You obviously will stay we've still got potential hour left, but veto Why should people subscribe to your channel? Well, first of all, I'm the king of Star Wars criticism. Uh recently surpassed mauler and subscribers because I'm that good No, but uh, if you like talking about Star Wars, obviously I have Pleat cinematic failure Which uh, people really like people found it very funny almost about to hit five million views. So Ice it's not as long of a long form critique. It's like 20 minutes long I think it's a good afternoon watch. I feel like a good chuckle And then I also do lots of dumb comedy stuff. One of my bigger videos was My pepsi video mauler. Are you aware of that one pepsi? I don't think I've seen that one. Oh, you haven't seen that one Okay, well, did you write your morning? I had to talk about pepsi Do you remember when Kendall Jenner made an ad where she was handing out pepsi?  Hold on. Let me read these comments people saying I'm a troll. How am I a troll? I really like the film trolling would be if I didn't really like the film and I was pretending That would be a troll wouldn't am I wrong Poor ryan.  You don't think I can't feel bad Have a conscience I'm gonna finish a sentence No, but you remember that ad she was trying to save the world by giving out pepsi cans Yes, and she was successful.  Well, just like many cans of pepsi and I was giving them to antifa and trump supporters And they started whipping them at each other and people were bleeding and dying in the street. It was beautiful I hate to say it, but that's probably the best use of a pepsi can Yeah, uh, so there's a lot of great footage of people getting hit in the face with pepsi cans and be being like I think i'm gonna go to jail at the end of this video Oh, well, dude, I gotta I gotta watch more of your content The sounds like it's slash veto the ito very sounds prime I did check out a lot of your uh, your movie reviews to take some like the dcu Which by the way, I don't think you have any legitimate arguments. You just a marvel fanboy, by the way Just letting you know Forgot to ask you guys that one. Well, the funny thing is do you guys like I want to know what you guys like Uh, we saw a really great movie yesterday. Oh, yeah, we watched um Anthropoids yesterday. Love that movie Never heard of it It's not many have. Yeah, it's not. It's not usually well known.  I mean I I hear what you guys are saying I I get it man. I just get it but People loved it. So it's not that bad Um, but yeah, I was gonna say veto I don't have that problem because I shot on black panther and then I praised infinity war So people were like you can't call me a marble fanboy because it's like I literally just shot Oh, man, I did not realize how intense the dc fanboys are man. They were really mad at me People wanted to cover those films.  I would just say everyone check that out because he's passionately ripped into a Is it funny? Well, well, he hasn't done it yet. I'm just saying keep an eye Um, he's playing some strong editing choices for it. So I'm kind of excited Especially because would you guys think of bad times at the l royale? Have you seen that? No, oh, no, I figured it recommended though I really liked it. I mean, maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the only one I I was like over the moon about it Yeah, that was one of the best movies I've seen recently. I also really liked, uh, That black mirror movie on netflix kind of kind of different and a snatch Oh, man, did you did you dig that at all or not? Not really. I played it with a friend.  I mean, it's a little silly the way they Kind of make it easy for you.  Oh my god, they were just incredible But I just watched Incredibles 2 that was a good time. Oh, dude I want to see that. All right I've hit a lot of bad things about problems in that movie. It wasn't perfect, but uh, it was it was funny That's cool. All this stuff with today made me laugh a lot What should we address in these comments or people will say I've got super chest to read now. So, um Yeah, go check out both these guys's channels. That was the point of that to make sure it's uh, mostly mine But what is super chat? So that's when if you can see the the things that are highlighted when they're posted They're like donations plus a message. So I've got the more listed here. So we're gonna go right back to when they started Oh, very cool. So you got daddy. I don't I don't know how anything works You should stream some q&a's or something on youtube. You should nobody would care There'd be one guy. He'd be out there. You'd be one dude be you looking for what to I'll just be in the chat being like You don't even know Uh, super excited for you guys to be back looking forward to it all this week My gf says I should be less excited, but who listens to whammin. Am I right?  Can you explain to me the whammin thing? I'm like, I know it's something sexist I just don't really know it isn't actually it isn't No, it's just coming from anything or is it just a fun? I don't get where to come from. I think pewdie pie started. He did the respect whammin Yeah, interesting.   I think uh, You know, whatever. Well, I actually gonna be telling me you think they should vote That's just that's our that's my do you think they should be allowed to drive? That is the big question. No, definitely not Absolutely not Saudi Arabia Only if they're driving me around No, I don't know Literally the fall of what oh snap you guys gonna get to look at women. Well, you get to look at whammin, baby. Whoo Come on, you don't like looking at some whammin. Come on guys. Well only attractive ones Put those whammin goggles on this is something you won't get this is literally just for rags So don't don't question it if you don't understand it a majorly I just finished your fallout 76 video, but I was bored my third time watching it. So I had to leave a dislike Yeah, that's that is hilarious That's like a collection of memes across 24 episodes of e-fap What what for you? That's really good. It's it's like it needs to be decoded to explain that message to you It's uh, I just think it's funny It sounds like he watched the video three times and now he's bored. That's that's funny That's good. That's a good joke. All right, wolf have you played metro explain to me the other meaning uh For every three words in his sentence it references Something from a past e-fap episode and he's constructed it into a statement that sounds vaguely solid. That's the joke Wait a minute. Did I do that? Is that what this is? No, no, no, no It doesn't have anything to do with you. I'm sorry. You're just being used. You're like the indirect object in the sentence Yeah, yeah, that was a little misleading Uh, yes, someone said wolf. Have you played metro exodus? Uh, did he he hasn't played that right rax? I have not bought it. Yes. I probably won't buy it till it gets on steam. Oh, do you know if wolf has I do not know. I'm assuming he hasn't but uh, hopefully you can well, hopefully he has by the time the next e-fap comes on Uh, can't wait for it to return can't wait for return of the mystery box Yeah, that'll be a potential for episode nine got a the meme conduit you damn right, dude Make make a way and if you heard of Vic Mignonia Controversy Vic Menogna. Yes, I have. Have you not heard about this? No, he's the voice actor of many anime characters He was in the new dragon ball z movie And it came out that he at conventions has a habit of Getting a little touchy with fans who come to take pictures with him and stuff As to is what he did bad enough to be blacklisted out of the industry. Oh, has he been? Yeah, he lost all these jobs basically every every What he was working with got and people are someone it's a feminist some convention invited him to speak and everybody's Pissed about it. I forget which one And it doesn't help that he's like a hardcore christian either. So people are thinking I don't know. There's a lot of who is a conspiracy or whatever It's a complicated subject Um, hey leads you get to look at women You know, I don't enough which is why I loved it so much in the film. I don't see any women I I live in a cell like that kid in the stable I can't wait to look at women while drinking my rhino milk. I'm sure that makes sense That guy sounds like my kind of dude. Let's hang out Without criticizing this masterpiece about disney fanatical wizards intending intended for space rhinos bilba willams also look at women See, it's just beautiful.   I mean the corn the corn is gonna just magnify That star wars girl has expressed interest in going on to e-fap any plans on having the first whammin on that would be the Second whammin we had second whammin had jay. I identified as one the other day, but we weren't on e-fap So we missed an opportunity there But um, yeah, we're always looking into other guests. The problem is I still have A backlog of guests. I mean it took a while for me to get from the first time I heard that you were interested It was you posted like a comment like two weeks It said two weeks ago on the thing that I saw I was like shit So it took ages for did you get did you get my actual personal like email that I sent you? I wasn't sure I need to sort a new email out because I get a lot of stuff. I didn't know you guys do I didn't know you guys were so game-centric We are I don't know people Do you mean e-fap on my channel or our channels? I'm confused because like e-fap We've only done movies mainly we've done a few game things and then we did the gaming one Why somebody dissing a vangelion and also dissing me that I It's interesting Uh, I know something Rose Tika was a security guard. How and why at the end of tlj was she flying a fighter? I thought she was a mechanic because she's a wayman dude. I thought Finn didn't know how to fly Why was he flying a fighter? Oh that that's an actual thing I was just gonna say to believe that rose can fly something. Yeah, I can We can believe poor kelly Murray try and dude. Can we at least feel bad for the actress? Can we at least for being I feel bad for literally anybody who gets You know Attacks like yeah, sure. I'll feel bad for I'll feel bad for anybody I'll feel bad for all the youtubers who get constant attacks as well Not even the attacks just the fact that she was this character. That's so many people hate. I mean, can you imagine? It's just a really badly written I think she wasn't the best character, but I I appreciated what she brought to the to the equation I thought she was needed Thoughts on the abomination known as the will smith genie Um the will smith genie that that shit looks hilarious Is this supposed to be like bad? No, I feel so bad for will smith this guy like He's too dislike magnet.  I don't feel bad I could still have after earth was terrible No, I'm just saying you put poor will smith It's not his fault. He shouldn't he shouldn't have took the role as the genie. It was a bad move. Anybody Would you guys think of bright? Everybody making the movies? I haven't seen it yet. I saw the first half of knowing when I got bored and stopped watching it Yeah, it wasn't bad. Like I really Appreciated the story. It was like this kind of interesting like middle earth meets crappy gang los angeles.  What? Uh fairy lives don't matter. Oh, Jesus What don't matter? What was the line? Will smith says fairy lives don't matter as he slaps a fairy out of the sky.  My friend has a rey ayanami shrine and claims. She is his waifu Upon interrogating upon interrogating him. I learned that in the years she's been his waifu He never jerked to rey rey hentai is this fake rey fan or liar? I'm I don't uh Yeah, I saw that comment. Uh, yeah, if you haven't jerked off to rey, how can she be your waifu?  Have you guys uh, you guys see that new dragon ball z movie. It wasn't bad. I haven't no Uh, I don't know. I mean, I haven't seen that. You know, I like Let me have a watch.  So no It had a surprisingly good story. I mean they they really made broly like this this character that you felt bad for and uh Just seeing Goku and Vegeta banter is just always classic.  Is the guy that like he wrote all the clone wars and rebels. Yeah, he's like clone wars, dude That's like a big thing at this point I would absolutely take him as the writer instead of ryan johnson Yeah, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Maybe as a writer, but like dude I mean the guy doesn't have like films on his resume.   I'll go watch whatever movie he puts out there I'm interested in seeing whatever he makes, but I don't want to make him get star wars trilogy and I have no idea How about that night? You pumped about that one No idea. What is it? I have no idea You talking about the trilogy now or someone else? Yeah, he's got a movie coming out. Oh Pretty good. I'm out. No idea what it's about Sighted but we'll say sight is a weird I hope I hope my expectations are properly subverted. I don't think you'll be as disappointed as you were with Last jedi, but yeah Yeah, sin sins is amazing and you're all insane. That's very true Lee loves bell front two campaign because you play as women Yeah, stop white nighting for cathleen kennie. Dude, cathleen kennie is a great resume. I'm not white like Dude, she worked on so many great films.  I genuinely believe she's qualified She's basically the next you know the next best thing to spielberg.  Go ahead and picture it man Uh, you need a ryan johnson emoji so we can say ryan milk Ryan milk huge fan and this is totally off topic But rags is wrong about water not being wet. Oh god when you dry something you are removing excess water making water the source of the object's wetness That doesn't actually Prove his point if anything that proves mine Um He should he should have thought that through a bit better.  Anyway Someone call the ordo hereticus on this man quickly. What's what's the ordo hereticus?  It was amazing. I've really like I said man I always I really want him and uh These guys think Kathleen was a water girl. It's like, yeah Calm down Yeah, I'd be interested to see a debate about starship troopers between someone who thinks that it's Well, just the two posing ideas. I guess Give me the things it glorifies fascism or psychopaths, right?  I'm like, what are you time? Yeah, I wonder what movie they saw Yeah Yeah, I don't know I watched it wrong People really hate Kathleen. It's it's it's it's interesting. They will the hair she approved the script, right? So people blame ryan and her Oh, I love her for that. I just want to give her a high five. I just want to hug her. It's a very Christmas good. I'm sorry I'm sorry guys It's 2019 tell us about all the creative decisions Kathleen made. Yeah, I'm sorry good Uh, you're watching e-fab. You got yourself a cup of ryan and milk life is good Keep up the good work guys rag is stay sassy beautiful You need to pay money for the game to be fun lee baggins We're so far back. We are we're all the way back to balford too right now They kind of got rid of most of that, but okay fine.  I know EA stalls balford too. It's not that bad Gonna be Gonna be an interesting watch have some monies. Thank you very much. Hey man. It's called looking at the bright side Not wrong with that Have to correct a common comment here in balford too You cannot buy star card upgrades the game was going to be paid to win But they removed it before it came out paying is only cosmetic you only upgrade your abilities by playing Yeah, and um, I believe it was the fact that it takes Bloody ages to get the things you want and they tried to I believe they tried to ease that out too They tried to make the grinding um Less impactful I was really the it was sort of like the watershed moment for a lot of it was what started the loot box It's what began it because if not for balford too, this is an ironic greatness of the game Uh microtransactions probably still would be stuck in a position where the culture was not as aware of them They'd be an anthem.  They're like, oh, it's gonna be like 500 bucks for Darth Vader.   No, they'll no It is pretty good Uh, hey major league, can you definitively definitively say making love to your grandma would be a bad experience? I ease zero out of 10 if you've never done it. I guess that's a reference We're talking about my my dead grandma or like someone else's grandma. Well, I think that point would still stand I think either is It's because you said about, you know, you shouldn't really be talking about the game if you've never played it This argument is Can you never say a thing is bad without having experienced it?  It's supposed to be fun.  I only said that because I really it sounded like you'd played the game I was surprised that you didn't Well, you know, I said I hadn't said anything wrong the premise of the argument is that we're not playing it because of these things having existed I get that that's an ethical thing Totally fair Microtransactions are a problem when people have spending problems in gambling addiction because that's who they're made to cater to So that's why there's Tim's like whales. It takes advantage of those people Um, yeah, you know I'm okay with like certain microtransactions Because I was gonna say that you could make that argument for literally every microtransaction ever, right? Yeah, uh, so for me, it's always about the execution I've as long as the game is not designed in a way that it is you have to buy this to have a good time to Play the game correctly or beyond the same level as everyone else If you release your game and then you add content packs of just different skins for things and this is like Yeah, you have to pay money to get the match going. Yeah, that's fine Like make your character you have to try pretty hard to justify to me why you have a full 60 dollar game and You're also putting microtransactions into the game because those things used to be unlockable through actually. Yeah, that's it I was Used game market because Well, it's like in that middle earth game It's like the definition of what an expansion truly is. What's the line like expansion packs used to be these massive huge additions to games And in games too, you would have I mean, halo's a good example Do this thing that's difficult You get this item that you could show off that you did something and now it's everything is so randomized Loot boxes are so commonplace in a lot of other games That when people have something cool or interesting you don't work towards anything There's no reward that you can show off It's just I got lucky or I paid money. So I got this thing It doesn't actually say anything about how good I am or anything You also have to look at the cost of development these days though. I mean like yeah, but that's a decision They make you can make. Yeah, but you used to be able to make a video game with five guys in a basement You can still do that. You can do it with one guy With five guys in a basement. Okay. Well, hang on. You know, what's assassin's creed made with five guys in a basement originally Oh, but I'm saying that the reason it has more You know dlc and that sort of thing is that like look it was a great Yeah, what are we talking about expansions? Well, yeah expansion packs and micro transactions or look at terraria Oh, dude, you play that I'm not saying there aren't games that are like that It's just like, you know, some people look if you want to say, hey, let's stop making AAA games and just make indie 2d things Okay, that's a different argument. What about hell? No, not at all. Hellblade was a that's a two That's a indie game the Witcher 3's an indie game Soma but would god of war have been better if less people worked on it I don't know. Maybe that's a strange position to take. Yeah, maybe I'm saying that to make those games You have to have a company and they have to be profitable. So the Witcher 3 is an indie game Witcher 3 has a very large staff. That's an indie game. That's impressive Well, it depends on looking forward to that. You're saying it's an independent studio. That's not an indie game. No Or like stardew valley by the common definition of indie game. Witcher 3 definitely does not qualify Yeah, it's a little Being an independent game studio is different from being an indie developer. You know what I'm saying How Uh indie, okay, if I tell you I have an indie band Does it sound like I put on saying the guy defending micro Who is defending micro transactions in this conversation?  I said they're bad, but it just there's so much good shit in the game that it's You can't give it a zero because that you could give it a five or a six. That's fair But the micro transactions are optional, which they are Well, there's just so many modes that don't even involve that that there's just I don't know. Yeah, it's what you've relegated stuff that is in those micro transactions to content that otherwise would have been unlockable Skill or here's the question as a reward or would have been available for $60. Do you get $60 worth of content? And that's what matters Oh $60 there's the option to obtain more content If you play the game a lot, absolutely you're getting your money's worth I mean, you know, so does the game have $60 worth of content fine And then if they want to charge $60 worth of content is the standard then that justifies pay to win micro I mean, I'm not saying They had this great They didn't have this great concept down but now at this point with all the the You know bending over they've done and getting rid of A lot of the micro transactions. They've added a lot of free content. You got all this last Jedi stuff The prequel stuff. I mean, it's definitely worth $60 at this point I don't see why micro transactions.  There's no part of me that says I have to buy more stuff In fact, I very rarely buy any DLC because I'm like, yeah, I got enough out of that game The the store and Fallout 76 makes the game and they want to you know Keep making content for it I gotta fund it, you know, there's no reason for them to keep adding stuff to the game if it's not going to bring in more money A fallout with like a ten dollar sign For you think all my yeah, well, that's the thing.  Yeah, I mean each one has to be, you know They already have merits, but I think people who are like, oh, you should never have micro transactions I'm like, well, then you're just gonna get games with less content like bread. They're not gonna have any They're not gonna make money off of it. I mean, or they will less content God, I didn't have micro transactions. No, you can sell 60 People make the game and be like free games. They're very common games are fine I'm fine with them in free games as long as they're not pay to win Yeah, no, I hear you. I agree. Okay. I'm a company and I make a game And it's a 60 dollar game and I can sell it for six dollars got enough content What incentive is there for me to keep making more content for it? To keep players invested in your games? I already bought it That you heard of no man's sky Yeah Yeah, yes a game which flopped a game which everyone bought and then immediately refunded You see I didn't play it until Hold on. Where are you going? Where are you going with that? You said they've already bought it So why do I need to do anything else like just because they bought it does not mean Well, the people who bought a physical copy can't refund it and oh, they did it was it was unprecedented If you remember a lot of stores had policies But they said like return your no man's sky copy and we will refund it because of what happened with the bear was that Oh, wow. It was in the toy store that I worked at Oh, well, no, we're in america. Do we ever have the agreement?  I'm barely even talking right now. Like I don't think I've got a word in in the past 10 minutes Not that I care.  You have inspired others. It's always sunny and old around Ryan direct stores and parts To JJ's backup now on my page. Keep it up. Um Very well, thank you Want to hear a joke part two is coming the 14th. I don't When did I say that it was coming the 14th? I don't remember saying that I don't know. I forget I think the only thing I've ever said is that the end of february and the hope was Uh, gonna be this year. I don't think I ever See, this is why you're encouraging me to never make an announcement about when a video is going to come out Yeah, I I try to stop doing that as well because something pops up or what happens is I'll I'll watch it back and I'll keep adding to it and adding to it and Uh, I hear you do. I I never Tell people when something's finished because like the best stuff comes when you're just Like you're it's done. You're not really trying to look for stuff You're just watching it down and then like the best idea is coming to your head Wolf isn't here. Let me show for him then everybody should watch pans labyrinth. It's a great movie Why is that shilling for wolf? I guess wolf really likes that movie. Oh, yeah, sure. But I would say that's shilling for um, yomo dottoro Yeah, but yeah, no go watch it. It's good wolf is probably too busy playing metro exodus to be on this episode I believe he's in work, but we will see if he's played that or not I'm paying more of a purely cosmetic reason The amazing lucas for efap. I mean, I don't see why not. We'd like to have all kinds of guests. I suppose Um, that'd be that'd be interesting. If everything lee says is to be marked then why listen I knew I knew it was going to be mocked. Well, the things that he said that weren't mock worthy.  I love that because that means at one point in their video Their mind was just blown and they were like, oh my god. No This isn't Troll dude, that's great to me. Like I love that stuff I don't know when people when people can't tell if I'm being serious or not. I think that's a failure in my No, dude.  No keeping them on the edge of your seat What what's an earnest or not? That's true. That is frustrating But also it's like dude, you're you're clowning these people in a way Like you're literally keeping them on the edge of their seat And it kind of reminds me of the whole like jokes on you.  You don't want to be over the top with sarcasm, but you still want it to be delivered, you know I don't know. Yeah, no, that could be interested but also slightly confused. I mean, that's But that's if I'm if I'm trying to communicate something I don't want to be used I hear you. That's like language No, that's that's ideal What's up guys first time commenting ps got milk, of course has majorly seen more less critique at all I skim through it.  So Those things just don't bother me. But yeah, like I there's some things that are just holes that you can't argue with But again, it's like there's just people that don't watch movies that way and it just that is a shame It might be a shame to you, but it's a shame to them that there are people watching it like that So I I don't think there's any like right way to watch a movie I think there's there's one thing you should do which is not Have a whole planned movie in your head when you go into the theater and again, I'm not saying you guys did that But a lot of people did I mean they bring up a lot and I don't know who these people All right. Well, I've watched a lot of reviews of people bugging out and uh I don't know this is what I'm finding one of them be Like everyone in my video Like Kevin Smith I mean just for an example, I mean, you know Kevin Smith He he he did a good job at voicing the sentiment that I'm sure a lot of people felt which is we wanted to see Luke do like cool saber twists, you know, so That's why I put those guys in the video. You know, it's like they they did a really good job articulating the common criticisms They they said them all I mean the hold-o thing the Everything was covered. I think I don't know bombs uh So, I don't know. By the way, Patrick Willems is someone who actually says there is a wrong way to watch a movie Well, yeah, I mean if you go in like with this thing of like a list of expectations You just said there wasn't you just said there wasn't which one is it? That's the one Stop it We can't make it up we don't know what you're saying your mic is all awful It sounds like you're moving it around or something. He's gone. It's like he's like shaking it to make it work Uh, Leia made the same Yeah, go ahead and read it. Leia made the same mistake too then proceeds to blame Po Oh, we did go over that extensively. So that's arguable. Yeah, if you kill your enemies, they win admiral holdo Um, ryan johnson literally said rose didn't fit in star wars Well, he just meant it was something it was something new it was like Yeah, okay No, like really it just goes something new doesn't mean it's good. I I agree Uh, an entire warship that is pretty much the equivalent of a super battleship for a couple of shitty bombers sounds like a great trade off Yeah, that's a pretty excellent trade that you'd be a fool to not make Yeah, I'd have to agree with that people are very It's interesting that people are very concerned with like the details of the space battle and you know There's nothing wrong with that. It's part of the plot. It's stuff that happens in the film that it is the star war No, I know. Yeah, it's the movie Yeah, it's how I get invested in the characters. They're making decisions. I'm just saying it's interesting. I you know Yeah, pete. It's interesting if people care about the plot Yeah, right. Yeah, jill's gonna chill moll and rags. Have you patients of saints? I couldn't do what you do I mean, it's been it's been chill. It's okay. There's been Dude, he's fine.  He's a paragon of Of righteousness. Isn't that right rags? Yep, there you go. That's all the difference between rags and veto. I'm sure you guys kind of sound alike What? Little bit. I don't I don't know you guys well enough It's all I'm hearing is everybody talking over each other. I don't know when Rags is talking and veto's talking. I can't tell the difference. Oh, the green circles over my icon. That's when I'm talking That's yeah, uh, what troll meter should I get on amazon mine broke? What what? This they're saying they troll me to oh, I got fin was conscripted to be on the resistance plantation This talk is a macro aggression.  We haven't seen it, but we want I want to because I saw the thing on it I really do want to see that there's some movies on my list that I do want to see That's that's probably at the top. Yeah, that movie looks hilarious. Um Then he tells his nephew. He is beyond redemption misunderstand misunderstanding of the character and the force Does he say that about kylo? I can't remember Wait, does he say what? Beyond redemption Luke say that He definitely tells ray that like you're wasting your time trying to turn him good, you know I guess yeah that counts Uh tlj equals prequels prettier cgi and dead ot. Hey rags. Oh, there you go. You gotta admit at least the acting was better Let's at least come to that conclusion. I mean you really got mark hamill What? Wait, what's the better acting and better what's better than what?  Come on. Just come on um What character?  I think was i mean i'll still i'll stick to the I hate what they did with his character, but i think mark hamill did an amazing job Mark hamill was better than hayden christensen But i think hayden was better Adam drive is loud I mean, I I don't get what he's trying to do though. I don't I don't know if that's I haven't seen him in anything else So I don't know if that's a character thing or a script thing It's like it's like daisy ridley is like I can't Like surely she's not the best actress for this role Because she has issues with like emoting in speech So Yeah Oh, well, yeah, I I mean I've been looking at a lot of clips because I've been making the tfa stuff I don't know what it is about daisy ridley's portrayal of ray, but she seems to have so few facial expressions to make Um the open eyes open mouth And then like you say that about the other characters too or just her Even I think even uh harrison fools doing a better job than she is in that movie and he's a little bit I think she kind of say that about fin. He kind of makes like three faces Um, I don't know.  Oh, and it's just like okay. There's a lot of faces. You're making I guess a lot of slapstick reactions to stuff No, I really like Oh, sorry. Good. Uh, kylo is strong, but there's nothing that hints that luke wasn't 1969 times stronger than kylo um I don't know.  I just saw they really like I mean I know this has always been a thing in that series, but it was like oh his power level is 3000 Oh, man. My power level is 6000. I I guess maybe some people Would want that info here. I don't know Uh Majorly needs logic for dummies book right now and You mean like the math Like logic like the math logic.   Hey christianson's not a bad actor, but he's bad in that movie Just like Natalie portman is bad in it.  I'd have to think about it and it would be a comparison of to which actor in the other film I probably haven't watched him in a while Uh luke is much entertaining. I mean it's you know luke is much stronger in the force than Been by sheer virtue of time and training again yoda yoda could have slapped luke around in esp But luke was physically stronger and more vital than him Fair enough major lee do you think that luke's skywalking milking scene was important or appropriate?  I want it to be like dude You're the man.  It's just hilarious All right, what was it right? It wasn't an otter. It wasn't an otter. It wasn't like others are tits Yeah, but it was it looked like a breast. You know, I had like two or like round Petrusions on it Wouldn't what would the distinction even be really because it's not what it is supposed to be Yeah No one calls it an otter though. Everybody calls it tits Yeah, I mean if you would say What's got others someone's like, yeah, we get it lee Uh rags equals jotaro majorly equals steely dan. I don't know the reference. What is really dan fan, but okay I'll have to look at jotaro Uh, I guess this is a question for lee. When did snoketon kylo's heart and why? Like moller said it it hasn't been really covered in detail. It it it's it's uh something that should have been in a flashback or Whatever, you know but It's not too late to go back and explain some of that stuff and it also wouldn't be terrible to explain that in the third movie I mean now that kylo is I mean again you can debate this but now that he's at least more bad than he wasn't, you know I don't um Maybe now it's time to revisit that but again if they don't i'm not going to be bothered by it Oh, that's jotaro I can see I can get why you are he's the last jedi who's gonna train ray now The books will train ray ray doesn't need any training Of course all lightsaber fights in one of the fighters getting axed ignore the hundreds of times where the fights ended with both parties unscathed never mind maimed Yeah, I mean That's referring to when you said like one of the two things that could even happen Well, I mean I just think him wounding him would be I don't know. I I didn't see that being a possibility, but that it you know, it's not terrible Uh luke could have been on that island protecting his remaining students and preparing the fight for the first order He could have been striking from the shadows Yeah, absolutely another option. That's what people thought he was doing. Yeah. I mean that was the Consensus and no that was there wasn't a consensus I think most people assumed he was like training or gearing up to do something I mean most people would guess that based on everything that we've been told about a character that he's probably gonna be He's gonna be active proactive rather than the opposite of that. Yeah, we assume that he's acting consistently with his established character Yes, well again. I mean this was one of those meta themes that this movie was aware of I mean ray says to luke leah sent me here with hope if she was wrong. She deserves to know why we all Think I'm telling you when she said we all deserve to know why she's talking about you the fans We need to know why you are here on this island. We need luke skywalker.  I mean that's that's what it's about It's like we are characters in this movie almost. That's what meta is. It's when you're Okay, but you could also say the film goes on even if we're not even present I know i'm just saying that that line was about you as the fan you deserve to know why luke is there So, I mean that's just storytelling Well, I'm just saying the movie was aware That people had that expectation.   I've never tried it. Is it? Yeah, no, it's nasty. You tried that right? I don't know. I I am from arkansas And I have not tried moonshine I'm not a big liquor man Not so great this guy says this guy says I this guy's saying I imagine and assume too much Yeah, you know, maybe I do but Again, these are things that really never bothered me. It's not like I'm sitting here with a list of flaws and like trying to come up With explanations for him. I just never thought of that stuff like it never bothered me enough for me to Even talk about it.  So, you know, I don't know what else to say about it. Yeah Uh, you can't introduce a character with this level of importance into a pre-existing canon without explaining him The emperor was a one-off. There was no law he had to conform with in the ot Yeah, the other argument that I would say that makes it so the emperor is not The same as snoke is that the emperor's existence doesn't contradict anything Uh, snokes existence.  That's like the first obvious question Um, and we're and so he's so old that he would have been alive during palpatine's reign So where was he then and it's just like just obvious things that it would nice to get them, you know I said that I totally said that when I saw tfa. I was like, dude, who is this guy? I had how did he become the new leader? You know, what what's the deal here?  It just I don't know. It just kind of got swept away But that's just me, you know, this is literally the not so great debate too That's just funny because uh, I'll be interested to see what wolf thinks as a whole in the same way Some people say luke and tlj is commentary on ptsd and that's why it's good I respond with rose and fin is commentary on workplace sexual harassment Yeah, I mean they highlighted a strong issue. Someone's saying what would bother you lea Could kathleen county ryan johnson do anything to upset you? Yeah, I have a lot of problems with the force awakens I just really think ryan did a good job with what the cards. He was dealt. It's a tough thing. I mean people, you know People had more expectations in a way for this film because they really were expecting luke to do something in this one I mean we already had that and now it was probably doubled down for this film And yeah, there was plenty of stuff that could have happened that I would have hated I mean, I could think of a billion things, but I just think they did a good job with what they're given They did it okay the way that they did it, right? Yeah, I mean, it's not perfect. Yeah, I I'm I'm with you guys I think it'd be fun to see all three guys together and high-fiving on the falcon, but all part of me also Well, okay. I'm just saying some people have said that and he said you guys You never said you'd be cool to see luke connan lay it together High-fiving on the millennium falcon. No, maybe not high-fiving. That was the joke part, but you know what I'm saying A lot of people have that opinion that it's a missed opportunity and yeah, I kind of agree with that, but at the same time it's so Uh also respectful to the old films that they don't try to repeat all that stuff And they don't risk making it like this corny reunion So you got to look at it like that they they just didn't want to cheapen The original iconic image of these three guys on a falcon It's so much more special because it it wasn't really have to have a character say It's salt so that you know, it's not you know, it's not That was funny. That was funny. Yeah, I with garth edwards. Yeah, that was funny.   Yeah, I'm laughing at it Not with it. If you know what I mean Yeah, well, they wanted you to know why there was redness underneath the whiteness. It was just That explains why it's not hot It's not snow. Yeah, you're right. It's this isn't hot. Just in case you're clearly recreating hot Um kylo confront luke on crate both discussed They want to destroy the old orders and build a new huck tries to kill them with 8080s and they save each other's lives They are the new antagonists of episode nine. I guess they're presenting another option for crate Who is the new anti? Oh, oh, I got you EFAP drinking game take a shot every time li says maybe because he's presenting a hypothetical version of the film I pray for a swift death Dude, I don't I don't like making like definitive statements if I'm not a hundred percent sure about something You should use maybe a lot when talk when speculating on on Theories or things that we're not agreeing on that are in a film. I'm just being respectful If I if I want to give you an idea like this is definitely the case What they mean here is that we're going by what's in the film and the defense of it is a hypothetical that doesn't exist within the film I'm curious how you would like so for example when Vedas says I am your father and it's revealed and all that stuff happens if we come out of the cinema from that film You go man, I can't believe it Vader is Luke's father and then I go I think he's just referring to it like a metaphorical sense like he's a mentor I don't think he's actual father Like maybe he's just saying that you know, I am your Your sure some people interpreted that way people apparently interpret it. No people people thought he was lying to Luke People are like all of averages. Yes, somebody will have thought that and all the people who's dude It's just like with kylo telling ray. You're you're I'm not not your brother.   We're in the middle of the trilogy We haven't seen out where it goes yet. Is there anything you can say this definitive about anything ever in a movie Like if someone gets eaten by a t-rex, do you go they were eaten by a t-rex Do you go ah that might have been a projection like a lie from someone else That could it could be it could be a puppet. It could be a clone. It could be I don't think I'd go that maybe Han Solo survived. That's all I wanted. I wanted to know you have a line. It's good that you have a line Yeah, I got some line somewhere There's a line somewhere There are some people who don't have that line and it's just like a philosophical nightmare Just right does not have that line You know, I nightmare Anyone who likes the channels of these fine gentlemen will love strated G I don't know that channel productions channel. Good breakdown of game design spell it a strat dash edg Stratz dash edg and then productions Dash edg Productions a more and rags wanting to both to know you guys help me through the toughness in my life with your individual content on eFap It's not to say you guys are the reason i'm still here today Uh, thank you so much. You guys are awesome. Thank you very much Zachary very kind Um, it was like Lee didn't have a plan Did you want me to have a plan like should I have showed up to this? No, no, it was always just gonna be a I didn't plan anything.  I had a plan Vita had everything planned a plan went according to plan I'm glad you feel that way star wars story writing my plan was for my microphone to keep breaking by the way Um, yeah, oh well. I was gonna say hopefully we can make it now to the end stretch uh star wars story writing one through three and Five six seven through nine suffers from the writer's prior knowledge that they have to another two films to explain shit I suppose it's an interesting thought the fall wasn't made with the strict idea that are five and six But then they could they could add them on while the other trilogies were like we have two films to go So we don't have to explain everything I don't think the prequel's really suffered in that way Yeah, because the prequels you can knock the first prequel off and you'd still have your story pretty much Totally Um, not to say that phantom man is worthless just that uh two and three Would function as the history of Darth Vader just as well as one two three more goes on. Yeah. Yeah Uh kylo is so tortured crawling in my skin Uh, would you say lazy writing equals bad writing? For example, I would say death note has a lot of lazy writing But I would never say it's bad writing lazy Usually means they took an easy way out I'd say death note has a lot of bad writing But uh, that's just me lazy. Is it necessarily bad? Like you could lazily attempt to do something and it turns out okay. Yeah Yeah I would usually do it in reverse as in I see someone who's like, how do we get our heroes out of this? And then one of them goes I have a a sphere that just does it and they press a button.  The first one being that it just it just does. He was sad It's He was in low power mode Uh, I don't know. This is like an abuse victim covering for their abuser. I think they're referencing yuli. I'm so sorry I I don't I don't want you to think I feel abused here. Don't don't feel that bad for me He doesn't hit me. I fell down the stairs into his fist I hit his fist with my face Someone's like stop reading the comments li should I stop reading these? It might not supposed to be really up to you I I don't know if you want to know why are you commenting if you don't want me to read it? What's the point? This guy strikes me as someone desperately trying to make the best of a bad situation. I mean no, I'm loving the situation Why would I think this is bad? This is your show. This is how it's gonna be. It's this is it. It's this is fine I'm loving it I would have quit. I would have quit five hours ago if I wasn't having fun Lee you argue snokes identity doesn't matter, but this character basically undid what the rebellion fought for 30 years ago Yet, we don't know we was or when were where how or why he did any of these things I think it did matter in in the previous film.  He becomes this Personality all of a sudden and at that point it didn't matter what his past was because he was interesting in the moment that at least to me You predicted a more conversation with lee can only become toxic. I actually did expect you to be toxic from your video I didn't I didn't think it would go as well as it did How would I be toxic what by being like a libtard like well because the way that you like You you you ripped into a lot of people. So I was like, I wonder if that's how it goes in an actual conversation or not Ah, dude, I was never about to like Cover you in any of my videos. You're doing your thing. But no, I meant in like in a live conversation I thought maybe you would uh Do that way I didn't know Um, but no, like I mean once we get to the end I could say it as a complete thing But I mean, I I think you've been a very good guest Same for veto and I feel bad that there's not really any super chat questions for veto But I feel like it's probably because people love to pick the brain of someone who loves tlj on this channel. I think I'm a shill for efap, dude. Whatever.  I'm okay with it. I'm it's called being friendly Yeah, I'm a shill because I because I like to have Manners, okay The main complaint about star trek discovery series is that it doesn't respect the star trek canon and or philosophy That doesn't uh that it doesn't feel like star trek majorly. How is discovery a solid star trek series? What do you mean by that? I think it totally feels like star trek. Yeah, it's got a different tone. It's a lot darker. It's more adult But I think a lot of people wanted that and I think it could really know they're trying to sell the license. I guess not. Yeah Star Trek Uh discovery is like the tlj of star trek. I've heard it. So I've only I've I've only heard that it's bad I have never heard anyone like go out and I'm not as big of a fan of it as I am of the last Jedi It definitely has flaws, but I'm really enjoying it. I think the stuff with the Klingons is so well done I mean they made them really bad and every scene on their ship is just like the drama is so interesting And you know, there's Klingons that do want to fight in the war.  I honestly am. I think the acting is really good Uh, it looks phenomenal the like cinematography is amazing You know, it's just it's a tv drama, you know what you know Uh, the Joker and Lex Luthor from the animated series of batman and superman are excellent compelling non-conflicted pure evil characters or villain Sorry I assume that's about because you said that it's not fun to have a villain that's like one dimensional I guess It's okay sometimes like I you know, I made the argument in solo that I thought Dryden was kind of one dimensional but then again, he also fit with the archetype that he was He's this crime boss.  He does he fits with what he is He kind of felt like the same character he played in gangster number one I think it was like a little echo to that but You know with snoke. Yes, it would have been boring if he was just The emperor are we talking about snoke or kylo here? Who are we talking about? He's like that that's It sounds like a like the like the reason was it is what it is No, I think with star wars. We've seen a lot of villains that are just straight bad We got darth maul. We got count dooku. We got the emperor, you know kylo is this new type of villain that actually has Possibility at redemption, but maybe not it's like it's keeping us on the edge of our seats Or at least people that are liking it at least Uh majorly is better than jack and eric for coming on eFap while rags is here. Yeah, I mean You'll get major profit coming on Rags you have kind of like an american Accent like are you where are you from? I do have an american accent No, I mean like like uh, you have like a slight twang, right? Are you from the south or now? Arkansas. Okay. Okay. Cool. All right. So now I can tell the difference. I'm sorry Uh, wait, what why did they say that? Do you do you rag on people? No, it's the other people who've been invited to eFap have refused to come on if rags is here Even though I guess it's good that I did I guess it's good. I did absolutely no research into you guys. I mean I also didn't want to come in with like, you know this Grudge or anything like that. I just don't care It's like a lot of people say nasty things about us that aren't true You know, I don't even want to know anything, right crazy.  Are you? We haven't really gotten political at all in this discussion.  I like joking about that Yeah, obviously not everyone is a freaking conservative that hates the movie, but it's fun to Say that and poke fun at them I don't know.  I just uploaded dude. You're gonna have a field day with that I we haven't but I I'll I'll make a note.  Uh, leo was a goddamn jedi in the extended universe. Oh, well, that's non-canon anymore sorry Disney killed it uh capitalism ho The biggest plot hole of a new hope is the stormtroopers saw them jump into the trash and Uh, after they left the trash compacted there should have been a firing squad waiting for them Yeah, you could say the armed troopers probably just assumed they died in there. Um, so now you're doing what I did You're you're doing what I was accused of doing. Um, what I would say is I don't know that that's uh That's a strict line. I'd be like do they know exactly where that goes without checking plans Right. Yeah, I was gonna say like, how do they even know that goes to the trash compact? And could they see that's what was happening for sure? It was like they're clearly moving or running They might have had to check the area first to make sure they were just hiding Um, and the guys there there should have been a line where the stormtroopers say where does this go? Yeah, but stormtroopers never talk and we assume they're incompetent Yeah, but yeah, no, I think I think I'd be okay with that if we had a um, a quick a quick throwaway line for why they would have been able to Is like if they're coming out of the place and they're like, um How do the stormtroopers not find us that they go we have to head to the maintenance shaft or Try to head them off at the wherever it was. Yeah to explain it a bit And Han is like that shoot could lead to the hundreds of trash compactors. They'd have to check them all Yeah, something like that. I don't know separates the waste by size and The big waste area Um Fans have waited 35 years to see these characters back on screen together.  Yeah, exactly. Exactly You agree. Okay.  So what was the point? Of luke not killing him or of luke holding the saber over Uh, I guess there's a lot. I'm not sure exactly what they're referring to but maybe they're referring to luke Feeling guilty like why would he if it's not his fault that any of this is happening. He's already evil Maybe it would have helped to see exactly what he was seeing You know what I think what I agree You're saying why does luke feel guilty about I I'm not sure they said what's the point I'm not sure exactly what they're referring to the point of what's the point of their question Well, I don't know sir Okay, uh tfa and tlj ruined the ending of return of the jedi inexcusable. I mean, yeah, that's tfa destroys return of the jedi hardcore Which reverses everything it kind of made it feel for nothing. Yeah Well, we haven't again the jet Movies later. We're down to one Well, I disagree with much that majorly says I have to admit that he has the fortitude to come on here with The three on one conversation very much a true I mean, there was no other choice. I don't have anybody else.  Can I bring a friend? We'd be like sure I don't have any friends, uh, but uh I'm joking, but yeah, it's just like I'm just doing this because people were really getting on my case about it I mean, I didn't plan on it. But once I saw how important it was to people, you know your show Uh, I was like, okay, if he's down, I guess I'm down. I just didn't think you would want to do that Oh, well, um, unfortunately and and this isn't on you. It's on it's not on anybody, but uh, when you have fans of two sides Uh, talking to each other excessively, you'll have them say stuff that doesn't even come from us So like they might go Lee is too cowardly to come on eFap and then fans of yours might go They ignore him at every turn because they're scared. The whole time it's like, I wasn't even away You wanted to come on. I was just like, oh I thought that was a possibility. No, I the five fans that I have. Yeah, they're they're probably not even aware. This is happening Well, I have some fun with it. Uh, want to raise the stakes introduce the yuzang vong who would make no sense and it's too late But hey stakes are raised Subvert those expectations, baby. That's what we're all about. Let's be on. Here's what everyone really is thinking Let's be honest Everyone really wants to know If it's on our fish and I'm gonna kiss making a fish Oh and fish on car plot is coming back. That's what we all care about Simon pig. You know what's funny on car plot literally Is like Ray's adopted father. There could be a lot there that we never got to see They could revisit him. He was a cool character. I think Going to the rhino milk casino to win some memes. It's new. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely new.  Well, it's a great band name Uh, why did you kill the younglings?   I'm glad you tried it out. Hope you liked it. You need to play that game. What is it like 30 bucks? It was my game of the year for 2017. Really? That's surprising. Hellblade. Yeah, that's cool Hey guys, I'm never able to catch these lives and I wanted to give back for the hours of entertainment. PS rag is is a weird grape Is true Kylo's Kylo still kills luke. It's not embarrassing at all Oh, right the whole uh The story wouldn't really be embarrassing for kylo because ultimately he's still killed luke as far as anyone knows We don't know if kylo knows that luke's dead.  He wasn't thrilled Uh an e-fab debate with major lee. I wouldn't miss this for the world too bad. I'm stuck at work Hopefully you have one of the jobs that lets you uh Maybe put something on the background. I don't know Uh, major lee is t-posing and letting out hot takes. Yes hyperspace a star destroy a game over at the start How would I not what what would I do instead of hot takes like what what else what's the alternative Cold takes like always is a movie right Very entertaining Fuel isn't a thing when you every ship has ion engines. Also, you make micro jumps Also, there is over 10 000 fighters in enemy fleet. Yeah. Yeah, we that tells you where we're these superchats are currently at and Isn't implied by the movie itself that the empire 2.0 literally can't remember their name has more fuel than the rebellion When they say that they're going to chase them until the rebellion runs out of fuel Yeah I just all of it makes me sad It's like yeah, no people really care more about this than anything It's it's just it's not even even if it logically makes sense.  I'm like, well, okay It's the least thrilling movie Well, I know there's ships around well people go on it. It felt like the right rhythm Uh, hey lee, I don't remember the death star battles in six and four They were like, oh, I don't remember that did that happen? Gee, I mean the the sentence itself will be supported by the following sentence Which is there were like hundreds of tie fighters A new hope is at least 20 to 30 also vader had an escort. Maybe maybe it's leading up to the hundred an episode nine Just there has to be a progression. That's uh, that's a what we're just like. Let's just You agree, right? It's dumb That they would say so few tie fighters I don't think it's dumb, but yes, that is something you could be bothered by and I wouldn't think you're nuts. Yeah All right Been e fapping since bilbo baggins wolf still waiting for a man to come on molly My favorite youtuber been introducing your content with my friends. Happy e fap to us all happy e fap. Good sir This whole movie wasn't intended.  I don't think it's They had a line where they said Right. No, I mean there was that one line where kylo said you couldn't be doing this. It would kill you to ray I think that was enough um That's just that's Combines to it's a bit weird though because it's like That's snoke putting their two worlds together sort of to have them talk. It's not like Well, maybe from luke's perspective. He was still I don't know. Yeah, sure. It's not like there's no Let's talk with him. Sorry Connecting ray and kylo Yeah I'm not here Wait, what do you say? Sorry. I look out for me And why is ray why was snoke connecting ray and kylo to get wanted to test them He wanted to see who was gonna turn was kylo gonna be the bitch and Go with ray or was ray gonna get corrupted by kylo and be his new I thought he explicitly said it was to convince ray that kylo could be saved and to bring her here Yeah, he was just testing the both of them there He wanted her to be his new apprentice and when she wasn't down. He's like I kill her No, he said killer from the beginning. Yeah He was always planning on killing her. Yeah, it was it was all just to test kylo Well, no, it was to get the location luke skywalker And that's the first thing he does. He torches it out of him. They change they change Pile on the reasons. Oh, wait, why could he changes his reasons? I don't know. Yeah. Oh, could be both Well, if you remember, um The like what he says we have to complete kylo's trading.  What do we do silly doxide trading really? He's like we have to come to the base and meet me with kylo ren like all right, dude He wants to complete dog. I I don't know man. I am we haven't seen it once In the hollywood movies Seeing a sith master teacher sith apprentice or whatever they are doxide users. That's a good point That's a good point. I want to see how we how they justify their position How they consider it to be the best position. We've seen a bit of it in the prequels with dooku and shit, but uh Yeah, no, that'd be cool. Yeah Ray should have fallen to the doxide while kylo returned to being a jedi. I mean I'd watch that story. I just wanted to be well written. That's all if that was what it was very undisney like Yeah, it may not make it work Uh, they have to be believable Poe was too perfect and ray isn't explain this. Oh, yes. You said the poe was too, uh Too perfect. Oh ray has a lot of flaws. I mean she makes this terrible mistake of getting involved with kylo I mean, that's not perfect. She believes in people too much. What a horrible flaw She has such a she has well, she might be believing in the wrong person She might be believing in a guy who really is just not redeemable That's a flaw. We don't know if he's redeemable or not How about the fact that she put all of the stock in kylo and luke and not herself? She has like a confidence problem I think she just she went herself to do it. I'm pretty sure she's confident Yeah, I mean the center, but yeah Uh, yeah, I mean she doesn't have that many flaws. You're right. She's very I wouldn't say I wouldn't say that any of those two are flaws All right. Well The whole thing with ray being like a strong woman.  Okay. Well I wouldn't go that far She she grew up on this planet by herself. I just assumed all right. We know she could fight.  So it's just she has to be the most powerful I don't know because it's not because I go see a movie. I'm like Younger girls would even inspire I'll scream Uh Someone said in black walk down people feeling isn't that the whole point? Yes. Well, she she failed enough. She did enough. What do you mean? I don't know. It was sad a couple times It might have just been her face.  It's like excuse me.  It's such a fun moment. I mean you really feel like this guy learned something He's a better leader now. I don't know what he learned To escape to save escape to not fight. Yeah, Finn wanted to help I think he can do that after he destroyed the dreadnought in the opening scene. He escaped. Yeah Yeah, but this was like this was like the moment where he learned like, okay I'm gonna say the quote that holdau said I'm gonna do what she did Let's let's escape through the back and not fight with luke. He didn't have anything to fight with I could see what they were going for but it just doesn't make sense. Yeah I don't know. I love that whole ending man. It just doesn't That scene when fin is like You know given his little speech and the the force theme plays underneath like it really feels like the two trilogies are melding together You know I I love what you thought I know I know it's just a music cube, but I mean really a lot of times these subtle little things are what make it feel Like star wars. I mean to me just hearing see through po's voice is like the ultimate star wars thing ever There's little just sound effects that that make it Feel like it relates or you know I don't know it could be what whatever makes you like star wars some people like see through po's and people like the star the lightsabers, you know So much to like in this series and this film is just packed with it But you know And you should write reviews for a say, you know all those all those places Reviews for what places reading the critical reviews again It's just packed with so much packed bro. It's packed originals. It's like a pack of sigs It's so inspiring I mean it's major lee would rack bench appear at an argument very true ESAP every single really think that I'm I'm honored that you think that because he is apparently like the ultimate Debater, but I really don't see it. I think they're goofing on you Yeah, no, I was gonna say there's no way they think that Yeah, I don't think they do no 90 of his arguments up, dude And yeah, so what? Yeah, he's he's he's implying it's like it's not something that he cares about some of the Poe killed the entire resistance by being a whiny by being a whiny and sending fin on a mission Which resulted in holders plan being exposed by dj poe can't be trusted doesn't follow orders holder did nothing wrong oh, that's I think I think we've talked extensively about that Yeah We've given that argument some time um in your thanos video you said we have to look at the events from the character's perspective In that case poe made a mistake by bombing the big ship too as everyone in the story believes it You've just said something that doesn't make sense So from poe's perspective, he made the right choice from all the other characters perspectives He made the wrong choice that that's in line with what I said about thanos I miss the not so great debate guy can you replace lee with him, please? He was so much better No, he was Go get yourselves a couple of rounds of rhino milk. It's on me boys afterwards. You go look at women, of course I don't know. Was it a rhino? I didn't I didn't get that. Oh, that's that's that's the core EFAP meme right there Don't worry about that Uh, gotcha. Kyle killed his father this Necker deserves to die Just saying it's good doesn't make it good It was a wrong kind of fan service Luke blowing up 8080s would have been better fan service I don't I didn't necessarily want that myself Yeah, not everybody agrees about well, this is the thing, right? I'm curious what your take on is on this.  What did you want him flinging around? Destroying them all and then someone's like, okay, what about he holds all of the uh The blast and then fires them all back into themselves and blows all the heads up And I was just like what about they all blast he holds them all and then just dissipates them Yeah, I'm cool. I just you know it doesn't have to destroy everything It shows it could have a 100 shield or something So, okay, let me ask you this if he did that let's say he Deflected lasers.  Escapes with the resistance And Kylo is just sitting there like in timeout I'm on timeout. He's been seriously wounded And been given No, that's a vital bit I just think it doesn't go in line with the mistake he made He he made a mistake. He hurt this this poor kid and he's just trying to do what's right. I mean It really is what he openly said that he didn't want his forgiveness It's the um, it's a reference to what he said that when the sun goes down he goes bad Yeah, that literally happened in the force of wagons. It was it was imagery. It was a symbol, but it did, you know Vampire kylo bed or kylo beds. Yeah, that wasn't saying that was a literal thing, but yeah It's a meme. It's fine. That it's beautiful. We'll see that I think as well um Yeah, where are we? But slice and dice that piece of junk out of the sky This whole argument can be summed up with why if I say hello or are you kidding after my point? Does it make my argument more valid?   That's what I need. I have to work.  Yeah, I give him to I'm I'm from I get the inward pass Oh the n word as a brit rags has got permission for me to say mate Oh mate. Oh, I feel so good to get off the chest Oh, you could call me mate. It's just the time that you dropped that word. It was a little It felt a little condescending, but it's okay relo seems what brine johnson was going for Apparently that's not unanimous, but some people think so rags hates this so much. You can hear the vitriol. I love the show Wait, we were supposed to be responding to a video. Was it just the debate? It was gonna be a video, but it just evolved No more video. There's no way. We don't need videos. Yeah, we got plenty of stuff The last time a major jedi character fell in love 98 of the order was wiped out Yeah, yeah, it's true. You know these things happen Wait, so what I mean if you think about it, there really is not much else you can do that like Honours the original theme of you know Anakin and Padme being the driving force that turned him into Darth Vader Maybe ray is going to be the force that makes him an amount of things that you could do You have this huge universe and all of this creative freedom at your disposal all of the money and time and writers that you could possibly access Yeah, but I think this was pretty damn good considering how bad it could have been absolutely awful I would take a solo. I'd take oh it's terrible too. I'd roll a diet take anything else So you're not feeling any of the new disney films, right? That's your opinion Um rogue one was none of I don't think any of them are good Rogue one was the best, but It's still me Rogue one is my favorite because it fucks with the other ones the least You see I have a lot more respect for people that just hate all of them More so than someone who would say like oh solo was better than tlj. It's like dude put the crack crack I think solo was better than the last jedi. Yeah, it's not better than the last jedi But they're still yeah, it's not set in the bar high well Yeah, see I don't know about that, but okay, you know Don't care that much. Although at least all the characters. I understood their motivations and Okay A logical dissent. I mean it was it was a safer movie than last jedi. That's for sure It made sense if that's what you mean It was a classically structured movie from laurence. Can you see you didn't find as many like plot holes in it then In solo? No, not really. I don't think I can't think of any off the top of my head Oh, I mean it has its selection sure, but um, I just think that it structurally functions a hell of a lot better than tlj because Tlj is just built on the shoddiest of foundations that whole chase None of it I hate to say it's just none of it makes any fucking sense from the get-go and then everything that develops doesn't make sense it's just It's it's like the least movie movie there is in terms of going from event to event To me always seemed like they just had loads of payoffs. They wanted and they were like, how do we string this together because a chase oof I mean, yeah, no, you're not wrong. It's just again There's just so many people that really don't care about any of that But that doesn't matter. We're talking about the like the qualities of the movie and how they're consistent with their own rules So every time you say but other people like it, that's an entirely different discussion that has nothing to do with the point No, i'm just saying that doesn't mean it is definitively bad. You have to just be like I got bothered by this. We've explained why objective was bad So whether people liked it or not, it doesn't matter. That's a separate discussion See you're ignoring you're ignoring a lot of opinions that love the film. No, that's the point opinions don't matter We're not looking at this. We're talking about entertainment. This is like This is entertainment.  I'm just saying if people love something. It's not objectively bad we didn't That those are completely unrelated things whether people like something or not has nothing to do with this objectivity All right, it's all good. Um, I mean like don't that's how definitions is the confusion here Do you think we're saying objectively nobody likes it? When we say that or I mean, I I feel like that's kind of what you're saying maybe not on purpose But yeah by saying that it is definitively a bad film because this is a plot hole and it bothered me It's still not bad. Whether it bothers us doesn't matter. No, no, don't tack that on at the end It doesn't matter. It does we're talking about entertainment. No, it doesn't matter No, no, no, whether it bothers us or not doesn't matter. Wait, so to give you an example, Lee Maybe this will help you the disappearing knife I never noticed that like for ages. I had to be shown it eventually like a few months later That was always a problem whether or not I noticed okay about it I mean the the the fuel thing that you guys are talking about is way more Of a thing than that knife disappearing. That's not my point My point is whether or not I care about it. However, I feel about it has nothing to do with it being an issue That's exactly what I'm saying. I mean, I'm not saying the movie is definitely good because people love it I mean, I acknowledge that it's bad to people but you know We can point out individual aspects and we could show and demonstrate that objectively therefore Yeah, but you know it has nothing to do with how we feel about it Do you know what objectivity is? Yeah, but yeah, okay I mean it kind of does though, but I hear what you're saying. No, no, no It literally doesn't But it does because I don't feel what you're feeling. Do you know what no no forget feelings? It's not about feelings. Stop talking about opinions. I'm watching a film No, it doesn't matter It doesn't matter what we feel that it's about I asked if you knew what objectivity is and you went straight back to feelings Okay Do you know what objectivity is? Yes Can you define it for me?  What's your definition of it? It's not mine Right, just do it. Just just just give him what you're talking about. I've heard you guys like you guys love like fighting People over objectivity and subjectivity. I've heard these arguments before then you then you should be able to define Why is this such a thing that you guys have have to always argue with people about it? What is objectivity? Yes, it's something that is not influenced by feelings. I know what it means. There we go Okay, but it's still a feeling if something isn't bothering someone and it's bothering you that that's feeling No, it's not about whether it bothers us or not There's issues that didn't bother me They are still issues But to say that the film is bad. It's like what are all those critics just lying they didn't like talking about specific things in the film The disappearing No It doesn't have to bother us or no, it's irrelevant It doesn't matter if it bothered us or not. It doesn't matter if it bothered us or not We are talking about the objective quality You love that word, but like what even does It's like what did you just say were you about to say what does that mean what you defined it? You know what it means. Yeah, I know what it means, but like I don't get what your what point you're trying to make though Objectively that is a flaw in the film Well, the knife thing. Yeah, of course it is I admitted that it's a mistake That's that's all we've been saying But the fuel thing is one of these things that it's like that was intended and It's just you know that that is your opinion that that is a big flaw It just is but a lot of people don't give a the knife isn't anyone can no one can deny that that's not a mistake Yeah, it's that's that's not why it's a mistake that no one can deny it You understand right like if someone said I deny the sun exists that doesn't mean the sun no longer exists objective No, I'm just saying that is like obviously an accident that knife thing right so there is that's objectively an error. Yeah That's it. We've done it. That's it. That's all we wanted But all I wanted to say is that's not that's not similar as the fuel thing, but whatever that's In your opinion it is as important. So that's your opinion and that's fine, dude I don't I don't hate you for that. Just say in my opinion. This is as bad as the knife thing We were talking about how bad the knife is compared to how bad Yeah, we thought you were I'm sorry. I thought you were I thought someone said that okay my bad Thought I thought that was the point you made I'm good. I'd have to look back on how everything just went but I'm almost I could have sworn someone just you disagreed hardcore with the objective thing, but now it seems like you're on board with it What do you mean? I disagreed with the objective you were like you can't be objective It's not possible. I thought you were saying that The film is objectively bad because of these plot holes and not all of them are equally bad So you can't say like okay.  Do you think the quality is defined by how much someone enjoys it? I hate to say it but kind of yeah, we're talking about entertainment I mean, there are movies that are terrible that people love and you can't say they're bad because people get enjoyment out of them Why would you make that distinction that they're terrible yet people love them? Because okay, so if it depends on the genre because something like this It's it's different than critiquing like a four quadra, you know, this is a family film And it's meant for all these different people around the world.  Okay, if you're gonna use the room as like think of a different movie You know how many comments I've gotten on my video or you like the room it's like dude get another movie. Yes, the room is bad We all know that. Okay. All right. Well, so you can objectively Is that objectively bad? So the room is objectively bad. Well, if you're asking me, is it like just worthless? No, people I didn't say that You're right in the subjective thing like it's like it's the end of day is Is the room objectively bad? If you are talking about like film craft and acting. Yeah.  Yeah, it's like But it's entertainment Lee Yeah, but it's entertainment that gives a lot of people love watching a lot of quality Do you see how your position is un-toddable? I'm saying you have to make the distinction between like This kind of bad and that kind of bad nothing is black and white like you guys just want to be like, okay This is a bad film. You you admitted that you like stuff in the last Jedi So you have to at least say it is not a fully bad film No, but we're saying that whether or not we like something bad would be if everything was bad To me like Fully bad is when every single thing sucks and you go every single thing in the room is bad Arguably, yeah, I would disagree with that. I disagree with it too I like when they rate movies, you know critics and it goes from a lot of people Fully bad Decided that's like the worst movie ever made. So I don't care about them. I'm just saying what people are saying I don't care what other people are saying the point is and I like the you use the word craft in there at one point Lee so Storytelling or story writing is a craft Oh, yeah, so we let's let's boil this down as far as we can see if we can well I don't know if you'll agree with this anyway, but let's just say it would it be theoretically possible For a movie constructed of a story to be definitively Of bad craft in terms of writing. Yes, if yes, absolutely if the writing has no dramatic effect and the audience is really not invested So what the craft's efficiency will be determined by the audience's reaction Hold on. Are we talking about the the writing only writing only Okay, there are plenty of ways to have bad writing I know a lot of people say this movie is bad writing and yeah, if you're talking about like the plot holes Yeah, you could say That could be better, but there's also so much stuff in this movie that is genuinely Impressively written. I mean just the fact that they were able to make a movie that Not only is a totally fitting sequel to force awakens. It works as a sequel It also is a sequel to okay, but I people think that so I don't care what people think Stop mentioning what people think we don't care what I don't think then why am I on your show, dude? Because that's why you're here. Not those people. We don't care about those people So we can always find somebody who thinks something it doesn't matter So you only care about what I think about and not other people Yes, that's why you're here I didn't know I was the center of attention. Well, you're the you're one of the two Dude, I don't think that my opinion is the only one that matters I I'm I'm that's as you could tell I'm referencing a lot of people All right, well It doesn't what other people think it pops up all the time. Oh, yeah Well, some people think that it doesn't matter you could always find somebody who thinks something It's strange that you a connector you you acknowledge the craft But then you seem to judge the degree of quality by how much people enjoyed No, no, no, I'm talking about a general Term here.  That does not mean it's a bad chair By the standard set in the craft it would okay. I think I think what I was trying to say was that When you're writing really the most important thing is to just make the audience care to make you want to see more And in in that sense this movie succeeded I mean you got to at least admit that you were because I didn't I don't care I don't know that there's a movie that exists that if everyone watched it everyone says they don't care about it Dude, there's I mean, you're right. No, okay fair enough But that's what I'm saying is that that standard is ridiculous. I don't understand It's Okay Well, that's what what percentage of people have to care for it to be when you when you write a script You can't just say oh this character did this you have to establish. Why are we caring about this person? No, oh script can literally do that Yeah, but it's not as effective people won't be as invested It depends on how solid the it depends on how solid it is Depends on how solid the script you're saying you're saying the movie doesn't need to make you care So like you'd agree that a story is defined by a progression of events, right? That's how we go.  I was like, yeah, but we didn't get the progression. We don't know how he got there so um The what we're we're tackling is all of the continuity all the problems we have so continuity in in character in the Uh comparison of the theme applying to the narrative the what the film tells us This is what we see and all of the law and everything that came before All of them can be considered continuity issues because that's what storytelling is So you think this film did more telling than showing that's what you're saying I'm saying it fails continuity on most significant levels It fails to tell its story within the standard of storytelling. It's a badly written film But I understand that it works like this is going to go on forever It is because I'm just going to repeat myself. I'm just going to say like no, it's fine No, no, here's here. I'll this last time. This is the last