And now we are live, live on the metal voice and who do we have today? Wow, two great guests. The first, the new frontman for Alcatraz and of course Malmsteen and Michael Schenker, frontman, singer, Dougie White, a veteran. What's going on, Dougie? Good evening, nice to see you. Nice to be here, thank you for inviting me. And of course, legendary British new wave heavy metal, guitarist, lead guitarist, Jackie Chambers. What's going on, Jackie? I'm good at you. Good, good, good. So this is a cool show because I got like two great bands that I really enjoy thoroughly and two very talented and veteran musicians on the show today. Careful, careful. All right, you're not that good. I'm just kidding. And first, I like to say happy birthday. I know Giles' birthday and your birthday, so happy birthday to you. That was yesterday, right? Yeah. And also, I just want to sad note before we start this show is dedicated to my buddy, Luke Huvarez, who passed away unfortunately one year ago today due to COVID-19. So I just dedicate the show to him and it was very sad, but we move forward, we move forward. So guys, exciting news. Girl School in Alcatraz going on a tour package in UK, November and December 2021. Hold fingers crossed that it'll still go, right? Yeah, we hope it's up. Yep, so I guess, Jackie, you tell me first. I'll start with you. Tell me about this upcoming tour with Alcatraz and what do you think and a little bit about it? Well, it's a couple of the gigs we've done. Girl School did last year, just before COVID-19, actually. You've got to think we've saffold again. Everything needs to happen as we talk. We just did the usual UK tour dates, like the Bannermans and Trillions and Eleven and the Waterloo in Blackpool. It's a lot of places people are familiar with in the UK. The gigs that people go to quite a lot is the scene, as we call it here. So yeah, we're looking forward to a little package deal. It'd be just good to get out and play. We haven't done it for so long. I mean, it's like, by the time we get on stage, it'll be about a year and a half since we played together. So we're really looking forward to that. We're going to have to have a practice and everything. Oh, what's the name for it? What's the name? Oh, my God. All right, Dougie, you tell me, you know, going out on with Girl School on tour. I don't even know if you ever toured with them in the past, but, you know, what does this mean to you? No, I haven't toured. I haven't done a package tour before. So it's got to be interesting, you know, especially on the bus. It's, you know, because it's meeting new people. I mean, I don't, I mean, I've only, I've never, I met Jackie at Winter Storm last year. I think Neil Murray introduced us. And I know Denise a little bit, but that's kind of it really. And the guys from Alcatraz have only met maybe twice. You know, so again, we're going to be having a band practice or two to get up to speed because, you know, these are songs that I've never sung before. And then we'll have songs from the new album. And then when they were doing Alcatraz with Graham, they were doing some back catalog stuff from Graham's time with Rainbow and with Schenker. So we're going to be doing the same thing. And so it's going to be interesting just to see how all this sort of pulls together for us, really. Fascinating. We're going to be doing the same thing, you know. Nice and fresh. So Jackie, tell me, okay, we'll get into all the set list and all that, but in regards to new music, girl's school, have you been working on some new music? Fully, you should say that. Actually, yes, for the first time in years, we're actually going to record a new album, maybe this year, maybe next year, and we're not sure yet, but we are writing, as you say, right now. So what's the goal then? Like, what are you looking at? Like in a year or two years from now? Or is the song, what stage are they at? It never really takes us that long to do an album. Usually a couple of weeks in the studio, we just knock it out straight away.  We just go in there two weeks, just get it down. So we're hoping for this year. Are the songs completed? I guess that's my question. We've got two or three completed and we're working on others at the moment. Literally, we're getting together this week. We're down to do it on Zoom and things like that, you see. It's all very new to us. We haven't actually got it together to get on Zoom to do it yet, but it's going to come together this week, we are hoping. But there's ideas, and I've got a little, sort of, like, studio logic audio here. So I just kind of demo a bit some music. We sort of swap between me and Kim. She gets some words. Then she'll like a little riff, whatever I've written. She'll say, I can use that for this. And we put it together like that and then bring the other two in and Trace is writing bits on bass and everything. So we're just trying to work like that. It's a different way of working, but it's what we have to work with right now. So we're making it work for us. So we're going to have a new album. It's six years, I think, since Gil Tres. Wow, wow, all right. Looking forward to that. Now, Dougie, new music for Alcatraz. Now, here's the big one. You know, like, I've heard, I've heard one demo of this new, and I was kind of skeptical, because, you know, I'm used to Graham, right? And I was kind of blown away. I thought, this is like, wow, this is like some serious, some serious music here. Tell me about the new music with Alcatraz, as you leading the charge. Well, Jimmy and Joe and I have been writing the bulk of the material. Not me, Jimmy. Jimmy Waldo. Jimmy Waldo. That would be awkward. And Joe Stump, we've been doing it. When I do an album, I like to overwrite for it. So we're looking at having 15 songs. 12 will probably make the album, and then the three that don't sort of sit in the pocket with the album will be as bonus tracks for something else. In the same way that people used to do, you know, when you only had 37 minutes, now everybody's wanting an hour. And I always feel that it's good to have, when you listen to it in its entirety, that you can say, well, that one doesn't sit with the rest of the tunes. It doesn't mean that it's not a good song because hopefully all the tunes that we're doing are that. Like you've heard, I don't know which one you've heard. I don't want to name any tracks. I don't want to give anything away. I don't want to give anything away. That's fine. But the idea, I mean, they're looking to have the album released before the tour. So that people have got a chance to hear me singing the songs that I've written for and with Alcatraz. And then hopefully they'll come along and they'll enjoy them the same way that they enjoy the classic Alcatraz tunes. That's what we're hoping for. That's the ambition. So you're saying there's gonna be an album released so the tour's in November, right? Yeah. November, December. So you're saying the album's gonna release right before the tour. Yeah. At least that's the goal. Well, I mean, when Giles approached me, and I mean, Giles approached me at the end of last year to see if I would do the tour with Girlskill. Because it was originally planned for, I think, March, April next year. And I said, I'll only do it if we do some original material because there's no point in going out. It would just be an Alcatraz cover band. And that is of no interest to me at all. So we agreed that that's what we would do and that's what we've been doing since the beginning of November. Okay. We've been knocking ideas back and forth. Prior to hooking up with Alcatraz, I had just signed a three album deal with Frontiers. And so I had that album to complete which I completed on the 30th of December last year. So I've been working non-stop on new Alcatraz songs since then. And we're up to 12 at the moment. And we'll get another three in the bag. We'll have 15 songs to choose 12 from. And I'm gonna ask you what the musical direction's gonna sound like, but now it's Jackie Jackie. Since you guys don't have an album coming out, what is your set list gonna look like on this upcoming tour?  Yeah, it's gonna be a mix. I mean, the last tour we did, it's probably gonna be similar to that one to be honest because it's like, you know, we were putting in new material and I don't think by November. So I've had time to practice it really. So yeah, quite a few of Hidden Run, the usual, you know, you race for the devil as well and that sort of thing. The things you expect from us, couple of guilty, guilty of sin.  I mean, you know. Yeah, I mean, the stuff that I joined we'll play a couple of them obviously, yeah. Take it like a band and guilty of sin we pretty much do every time now. Yeah. You know, Dukie, you've heard though, the latter or the later girl school material, but it's strong. It's just as strong as the earlier stuff. It's surprisingly strong because I'm used to the first four because I kind of grew up in that time period. But when you go to the newer material, you realize, man, the last four or five albums are really strong and I guess it's because of you, you know, your input there, right? So Dukie, what's the musical direction gonna sound like on this new Alcatraz? If you were to describe it, what do you think for fans? Meatloaf meets Kylie Minogue. Oh, good. Love it. Give me a good tour. With some Billy Joel thrown in there. It will be a surprise. Well, what era of Kylie? I want to know what era of Kylie. What's a Nana song? When she had the big cuddly hair. I should be too lucky. OK. Well, Robert Plant used to throw that in when he did one of his tunes back then. Joe's a shredder, you know? And I think when Alcatraz were looking for a guitar player, they wanted a shredder and Joe shreds with the best of them. So there'll be plenty of shredding in there for people who enjoy shredding. And Joe and I have written three or four songs together that are very strong and very positive. And Jimmy and I have written some other ideas. And the collaboration between us all has been very good. It's difficult to describe music really. You just, you know, it's going to be heavy rock music. And that's what it's going to be. And it's going to be my take on what Jimmy and Joe have given me. Plus a couple of things that I've given them with their take on it as well. So that's kind of how it's going to sit. There's no point in trying to replicate what has gone before because, you know, I'm not Graham. And the interesting thing was that, you know, when I had to sing Graham's songs in rainbow, I just, I can still see Richie in the band all laughing. I may not be able to do it. And isn't that strange? It's strange, isn't it? Well, he's got such a unique voice. And you either sing it like that or you have to find a way to make it your own. And I thought that was what was always brilliant about Joel and Turner was that he always managed to take anybody's songs and make them his own. He put his own, he didn't, he was clever enough to be able to work around about what's going on. So that's what I have to do with these more difficult Bonnet vocal parts, which I'm looking forward to another challenge for. It is. I remember Michael Shanker told me everybody from Rainbow's pool of talent just kind of moved over to his, his camp. It's like everybody kind of shifted over. It's strange. And when you think about it, it's true. It's like it was a training camp in Rainbow and everybody just kind of moved to Shanker. But, you know, people used to accusing me of that, you know, of taking, you know, Richie's castoffs as it were. And that's not really the case. Cause I mean, Tony, Tony Iommi's work with Ian Gillin. Tony Iommi's work with Glenn Hughes. Tony Iommi's work with Ronnie James Dale.  I mean, there are two former Rainbow guys in Billy Joel's band right now, Chuck Burge and David Rosemann. You know, and they've been in the band for 20 years. Yeah, yeah, true that. Jackie, and we're going to get to Dougie on the same question.  Yeah. A masterful guitarist and sort of the face in the way of girl school in the early days.   You know, how do fans, you know, do they accept you? Do they, are they okay with you? Or do they think that you're doing a great job? Sort of. Well, when I first joined in 99, I think they all thought I was Kelly. They just saw this blonde woman on stage and just assumed that's Kelly. So I don't think anybody knew any difference until I opened my mouth. But I think I got away with that for years. Of course, when I first joined the band, I wasn't a lead guitarist. She actually wanted to leave the band long before that. And she sort of said to me, I'll teach you how to play lead guitar. If you join, then I thought, oh, this would be a laugh. Then here I am, 22 years later. But yeah, so she sort of taught me her solos anyway. So it's not exactly, I'm not exactly Shredder, more Chuck Berry than Ingrid Malenstein, but you know, it's just fun and I enjoy it now. But yeah, I think the fans have been brilliant, yeah. To the fans with it. Her style, anyway, kind of, we like the same music. When we first met, she came to my house and she went through my collection.  There's a lot of rock in there, of course.  Big Bobs and Lopes. And she's like, wow, you like same stuff as me. So we got on really well. So when we were playing guitar, it was very natural for me to copy what she played. And it was very similar in style. So yeah, it was quite an easy transaction really. I think when someone passes, they accept the replacement a lot easier than if somebody who's just sort of, they quit or they're fired, even though she did leave before then, right? Yeah, yeah. But I'm just saying that it's not like she could come back now. That's what I'm getting at. So the fans have had, you've had a great transition over the years. Fantastic, yeah. Yeah, it's been brilliant. They're really welcoming, yeah. Not I didn't know what you were talking about. So kind of the same question for Doogie, okay? What do you say to fans? This is the elephant in the room question, by the way, Doogie. What do you say to fans who are saying, Graham Bonnet is the voice of Alcatraz.  So what do you say to fans that say that? I would say that I don't disagree with them at all. But if you want to hear Alcatraz, then it's going to be without Graham because, and Graham, I got a phone call when Graham was on tour the last time Alcatraz were in the UK. And Graham was in it. The band will come into Edinburgh to play in Bannerons as Jackie had mentioned. And I got a phone call, would I go for a walk with Graham? And I went down and I met Graham and we walked through Edinburgh and we went and had a coffee and a blether. And he didn't want to do this anymore. He told me he did not enjoy this music anymore. He wanted to go back to the Graham Bonnet band. And that's what he's chosen to do. Now, what do you do? Do you abandon the work that's gone before never to be done again? Or do you find someone who's willing to step in and step up to the plate and do it? And try something new, you know? When Ozzie left Sabbath or was kicked out of Sabbath, they got Ronnie Dio and when Ronnie Dio left Rainbow, they got Graham Bonnet and when Deanna left, they got Bruce in. Now I'm not comparing myself to any of these guys. But if the band wants to continue, they have to have someone. And if it's not me, it would be someone else. So why not be me? Yeah, well, you definitely got your vet in, you know? Like, I mean, you've got the experience under your belt. If anybody was to sort of replace Graham, or I wouldn't even use the word replace, but move forward with the band, it would be you. You know what? And this is not to like knock Graham at all. I love Graham. I love his voice. And I think he's great in the Graham Bonnet band, you know, and everything he's done. I think he's a great singer. I'm not trying to knock him. I'm just asking the question because there's a lot of fans out there. Graham and I have been friends for 20 years. We've toured Japan together five times together. We've done various things. I know he wishes me the best because he knows that that legacy that he made with Alcatraz is safe in my hands. And he knows that I will treat it with respect. And he knows that I will treat it with dignity and I will do the best that I can. And you can't ask any more than that. You know, I will learn these songs. I will write the best songs that I can and carry this forward. And the fans hopefully will like it. The fans who would rather have Graham there can go and see him in the Graham Bonnet band. If they want to hear these songs, you know, they can go and see the Graham Bonnet band and hear his tunes. You know, but as far as Alcatraz goes, for this album and this tour, I am the lead singer in this band and I will do my damnedest to make it worthy of the name and worthy of the legacy that Jimmy and Gary and all the guitar players that played in the band and Graham brought to the table. That's good. That's great. And just to tell everybody that for those who don't know, two of the original members, Gary Shea and Jimmy Waldo, are in the band, right, with you. So they're the ones who've always sort of, the music of the band, sort of the foundation of the band, right? Yes. So in... And Mark's an astonishing drummer and he's right in the pocket with Gary as well. And of course, Joe Stump's just, you know, he's one of these phenomenal guitar players. That he does the shredding and that's what he enjoys. But man, I've heard them play some of the solos in this album that he's put down are just superb. Superb. And it makes me happy. And if I'm happy, that's good. And I hope that... If I'm happy, then I do my best and then I hope the fans are happy as well. And I hope they like it. And if they don't like it, then I hope they're still happy. Okay. Great. That sounds cool. And Jackie, I know you probably get asked this question probably in every interview, but I'm going to ask it anyways. The evolution of women in metal. Man, I'm going to tell you, like going back as a kid, I remember seeing girl's school. I think it was all guys who used to go to the girl's school show, right? It was very few women. And have you... And you've been in the band now 20 years. So you've been in the band. 22. 22. And I'm even 22 years ago. Still the new girl. Still the new girl. The new gal. Have you seen the evolution in the last 22 years of more women at shows and being inspired and, you know, they're looking at you as inspiration to pick up the guitar and to do something. Definitely. I mean, there's definitely a lot more women in the audience. Definitely. We did one, funnily enough in, I think it was Sweden two, three years ago. It was just for women. It was an all women event. So guys weren't allowed in? No. It was the weirdest event ever. The guys weren't allowed in. After the songs, you know, the music... You're like, oh, it's just, it's very straight. Statement. I think it's called statement. I think that's right. But it was really unusual. But yeah, I mean, across Europe, we've noticed a lot of females coming along to the gigs now. And a lot of bands, a lot of young bands are coming up to us and saying, yeah, we took up guitar because we saw you play at Sweden Rocking too. 2002, whatever. And it's really encouraging when you see a young girl who's taken up an instrument and because they've seen another woman playing it and it's inspired them rather than just, oh, I'm playing an instrument, but boys won't let me join the band. Like it was for the girls. I'm singing bagg vocals back in like 40 years ago, right? Yeah, but Kim and Enid, when they first started, they put a band together because the guys won't let them join. You know, they didn't want them in the bands. So things have changed a lot since then because there are a lot more females. Not enough still, but there are a lot more. Yeah, it's interesting because the Gogo's, you know, they're nominated for, you know, the Rockin' Hall of Fame, but I think it's the wrong nomination. Should have been girl school instead. Because the Gogo's, they really didn't work for 40 years, cranking out albums and touring. Yeah, but not ignoring a lot. They just happened to have two big hits back in 82 and that was it, right? Of course, Kathy Valensheim was in girl school. Yes. Before they became girl school. But that was like real brief. That was like, what, two gigs or...? Yeah, she was playing guitar before Kelly, yeah. Before they became girl school, obviously. But yeah, they all come from girl school. D.H.E.J. account, right? There's quite a lot of people come from girl school originally before they were girl school. And, Dougie, you've traveled the whole wide world.  Well, I think it's been broken down into sub-genres now. It was never that for me. You know, when I started listening to this, it was, you were either a purple fan or a zeppelin fan. Yeah. I think I was never right, slap banging there in the middle of your eye heap. Everybody loved both of them. But there was always the, you know, oh, is Page better than Blackmore or is Blackmore better than Page? And I was never into progressive stuff. I play, you know, my first band, the keyboard player, clearly. He was into bands like Emerson, Link, Palmer and Genesis and stuff. And it was never my bag. I loved the guitars. That's where it came from for me. And it's gone into all these sub-genres now, you know. You know. Black dad's Viking medal. Well, if you, yeah, yeah, my favorite. I mean, I did a couple of these metal cruises and with Shanker, you know, and we were kind of the lightest band on the bill, you know, and there were folk going around dressed as elves and pixies and things. And it was brilliant. But it's an education. And I don't mind, so long as the guitars are there and it's done authentically and beautifully, then it's brilliant.  You know, these bands are all of a different generation from what I grew up listening to. But it's just magical. And there's some great singers out there as well. And I get drawn to them as well. There's some, if the music's good, I don't mind. And if what you call it, just so long as it's played authentically and realistically and beautifully. Yeah, okay. I'm going to touch on Brexit here and how it affects you guys, of course, being part of the British Empire. I don't know if you want to speak, you don't have to speak to this or not. I'll speak to this first. I find, I get why it happened. I understand, but I could see the restrictions and herding bands moving forward. You don't have to answer the question if you don't like, I'm not gonna, you know, I might turn into a ramp. But I find it's important, the education aspect of this and how is it going to affect girl school moving forward? It's a difficult one. Cause obviously Tracy, our bass player lives in Spain. So straight away, we were kind of screwed this year for doing anything anyway, because we couldn't get her over here without this quarantine rubbish. Then Brexit kicks in. And of course now we're looking at, we were looking at doing the tour, weren't we originally doing it in the Europe? It's supposed to be, I think it was August this year, it was supposed to be doing it. And that was just impossible because there's visas for Spain and Italy and all these places that you, you know, we just cruise through before like, now we've got to pay a visa here, a visa there, the truck situation, apparently you've got to keep hiring trucks and three days and coming back. I don't know, it's just different. Well, was this not just thought out about the bands in mind? I mean, I could see the importance. It's not into anything. Even the things that they thought, they thought out, you know, they sold it on new passports, blue passports, you know, we don't want the European passports, we want to roll blue passports back. The irony is they're made in Poland. Yeah. They sold it about being about fishing, we're going to get our own fishing, our own fishing waters back. The salmon sales to the EU have dropped 97% since January. Again, Dougie, I mean, if you don't want to speak to it, I don't want you to get in trouble or anything. I won't get in any trouble.  And it's the same way with this COVID stuff going down.  All these theaters, all the musicians, actors, dancers, all these people completely wiped out. The venues, the promoters, the bands, every, they're rehearsing all. We're all rugged, man, you know?  They'll be able to do their festivals, and that's great. Every single band in the rock business is going to be fighting for a, and get paid a potato and 20 pens to be only under part of that. Yeah. It's true, man. It's true. You know, it's interesting. We're having basically, this is what happened 20, 25 years ago with Napster, right? It was a shot to all the whole, you know, musicians and entertainment industry. It just blew away like 70% of all bands' income back then, right? And this is like, now, this new shot is just going to annihilate just so many, the industry infrastructure will call it. That's what it's, and the artists too. And already venues are shutting down over here. I don't know, it's like in Canada, but we've had venues shut down. Oh, same thing, same thing. You know, smaller ones, you know? It's just sad. Honestly, you can get a grant from the government. They just can't survive because they're telling them that you can only have so many people in because of the COVID restrictions. So with this and Brexit, it's looking at unlikely that bands are going to be touring from Britain unless they're sponsored or, you know, they put the fees up. If they put the fees up, then they have to put the ticket. Do you have to move?  We used to be allowed to do that before Brexit came in. We can't do that now. Yeah, not now. You lost your European. We could go to 27 countries uninhabited and tour through all those countries. No problem. Now you can't do that. Now we've got to stop at every border, get off the bus, get back on the bus. It's like going into Switzerland, 27. I was going to say that as well, yeah, Switzerland, yeah. We kind of had, I'm not going to get into this, but we had kind of the same discussion here when Quebec wanted to sort of leave Canada. But you see, people get wrapped up in the sort of that sort of magic wand that will make everything, everything better, right? But when you have to really look at who it affects, the jobs it affects, the import, the export, the logistics of moving in and out, the negotiations, people never look at that, you know? And it's, you know, UK is just an example of, you got to look at the fine print, right? You got to look at the fine print. You got to understand the logic of it all. Nobody did. You just wanted to sign a deal and it just sold us down the river basically. Yeah. And you got some songs on the list, I think, there. Well, I hope things get better in terms of Brexit and they kind of find maybe they could find a loophole or you guys could find a loophole. I mean, you know what, Dougie, I watch Fish from Marillian, you know, ex-singer of Marillian and he's really adamant about this topic and how the money just doesn't make sense anymore to tour and he's just going to retire at this point because he just doesn't see a future for him, at least in the music industry. What do you both say to starting off artists and it doesn't have to do with Brexit, just in general, in metal today? So Jackie, what's your position? What would you tell a starting, someone who wants to start a band, 20 years old, want to start with, you know, I'm going to start my all girl band or... Yeah, still go for it. But I think nowadays you can have a backup plan as well. Don't go in it for the money, whatever you do, don't go in for it for the money, otherwise you're going to be very disappointed. I mean, I think it's your passion and people want to do music. You basically are a musician, it's not like a job, is it, sort of isn't a way, but I think if people want to start a band, still start a band, we need music. People love music. Don't stop because of the money. Just don't go into it for the money. Okay, what about you, Doogie? What would you tell, you know, here's this new band starting off, Doogie, give us some advice. How can we make it in this business? Is there such thing as making it anymore? I would think, I would think, keep dreaming.  This is not an easy ride. It was never an easy ride, you know? I'm here because I made choices and I made this life choices. And I was in the right place at the right time. I did certain things. And actually sometimes I'm quite good at what I do, but there was a lot of people who were my peers who got the girl pregnant, got married, did this, I never did any of those things, man. I just, I slept in sleeping bags on floors to get here. You know, I refried beans on dry toast and shared the house with 12 or 14 people to be where I am here, you know?  But there was luck involved as well. You know, Richie Blackmore changed my life, but Richie Blackmore wouldn't have known about me had I not placed a cassette into Colin Hart's hands and Colin was good enough to give him it and he was brave enough to take the chance on me. My life could have been completely different. Well, that's just you. Follow the dream. Don't be tied to the one thing. If it's not working, move on, man. Move on. But dream big. I like that, I like that, that's a good answer. Jackie's rock and roll dead. Rock and roll dead? No, no way. No. No, it never will be. As long as there's some sort of social political issue, rock and roll will never die. Yeah, there's more to write about now than there ever was. It's like, you used to think, what can we write about on this album? We've got so much material now, come on. That's right, oh my God, this last, the last year has been like, you know. My friend told me the greatest music and the greatest art will be made in this year because people sitting around and suffering and what about doing, is rock dead? No, I'm still writing about girls and flash cars. Well, I don't know. And walking down Sunset Strip, you know. Yes, let me do something about Brexit and the virus. Can you, oh God, can you imagine how dreary that's going to be? Yeah. Oh, you know, the idea is not, you know, is to get through this and come out smiling at the other end.  I couldn't grow out the house.   So I don't have, or sting, I don't have any political agenda here. I want to write rock and roll songs that make people smile or make people dance or whatever. You know, there are brighter boys out there than me that can write their political songs if they want to do that. All right, just so your folks know that there's, you know, people are texting as we're talking and it's difficult to sort of concentrate on you guys and at the text at the same time, but one question that, yeah, you can't see them. So one of the questions that keeps popping up is, does Jackie have any good Lemmy stories? So, I mean, yeah. They've been told so many times. It's every single time. That's why I don't want to go there. It's just because... I mean, obviously, the one that always comes to my mind is when we were doing the album and the boys were on it. So Lemmy was on it. And it was just, hearing Lemmy one night, we just rang him up and said, will you play on the album for us? So I sent him a text asking him if he'd play on the album. And he sent me one back saying, what do you want, harmonica, bass, vocal, or triangle? So I went back, triangle! Just triangle. But obviously he played bass. He played, he sang on it as well. But right at the end of the album, there's one little triangle right on the very end of the album. Bing! And it's like... All right, so a lot of people don't know this, but the album Legacy by Girl School, it has the guys from Motorhead. It has Ronnie James Dio on it. So, I mean, if you haven't heard that album and a lot of people haven't, they don't realize that there were these big guests on this album. Check it out. JJ, French is on it. Neil Murray. There you go, Neil Murray. JJ French is on it, right? From Twosie's Sister. So it's a great album and a lot of cool guests. All right, so now I'm gonna go to, let's see some doogie questions out there. I love your rainbow album, Doogie. That's more of a statement. Thank you. Where's the other guy from the metal voice? That is just because today is just too many people, it's too difficult to sort of coordinate. But next time, Alan will be on. Lemmy really went the entire way. I'm assuming in your statement. I heard Doogie audition for Iron Maiden. Please ask him about that. Okay, now just to give everybody context, I've already asked Doogie about this and he's, but you can give everybody a little bit of that. I mean, what songs did you audition for with Iron Maiden? If you want to just quickly go through it because I know a lot of people haven't heard the story. I was in first and I was in last. And the audition was about 12 or 14 songs from a real live one and a real dead one. And I got called back in for us, but I didn't get the job, Blaise got the job, you know, and Blaise did two brilliant albums with him and Normal Service has been resumed since 1999. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the cool thing is you did audition, right? And to just even be considered for an audition for Iron Maiden just shows your caliber as a vocalist. That's how I look at it. Now, Jackie, have you ever auditioned for Iron Maiden as the guitarist? No, I just didn't. I just thought I tossed it up. You never know, you never know. Maybe it happened in the back rooms, I don't know. Let's see, it's a big honor they're saying. I'm just gonna go through the question and see if there's anything interesting. Doogie, have you ever, do you have any Lemmy stories? Have you ever met Lemmy or, you know, hung out with him or went on tour with him? No, I didn't. He was in the green room at the Hammersmith Audion on one of the nights I played there with Rainbow. But other than that, no, I never met him at all. I never saw him at all. I did, I went to see them. My friend Ricky Warwick was playing, he had a band called The Almighty and they were supporting Motorhead at the Hammersmith. And I went in and Lemmy was soundchecking his bass. I've never heard them like that and that was just bass. And I just thought that this is gonna be mental. It really is loud. We came on with us a couple of times to do, please don't touch, we only did it twice. I just remember him coming on, I could feel the floor. Oh God, the floor on the back of me was just vibrating the whole time he was playing. My cousin, I remember, told me, my cousin told me I've never heard a louder concert back in the 80s than Motorhead. It was just, your body's shaking, it's so loud. So on that note, well, okay, just gonna plug it again. So to summarize everything here, girl school, working on some new material, hopefully it'll come out sooner than later. Hopefully, I'll be probably next year because obviously by the time we record it and then we've got the tour, so probably next year it'll come out. What's the vibe like in terms of a sound that you're aiming for? It's gonna sound like girl school. Whatever we do, it's just gonna sound like girl school. We don't use any effects and nothing. We just go straight through. It's always gonna sound like us, no matter what. We don't try and find a formula, let's say. Got it. We got one. Doogie, your album's coming out. You said before November, hopefully, right? No, it will be before the tour. I mean, it has to be before the tour. Okay. So I don't have a firm date. The album is gonna be called, it's the digit, it's the letter V for five. V, victory, V for victory or visitor or piece. V for victory, victorious. Is it gonna be five? It's gonna be five. Vitality, yeah, I think it's the fifth album. You know, I haven't got all the album. Did you guys ever watch the miniseries V? Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah, it's brilliant.  Yeah, it's like, brilliant. You never saw it, Doogie? With, yeah. With Heather Menzitz, I remember Heather Menzitz. They remade it, they remade it not that long ago. They remade it, they remade it. And they were like eating the rat. Yeah.  Like what did you expect these aliens to eat? All right, that's pretty much it. Doogie, thank you so much Jackie, thank you so much. So again, the tour dates, the package tour, and there's some festival dates too. Maybe you want to run through them. Yeah, go ahead. Can I just say that the very first gig I'm doing with Alcatraz is on the 11th of November, and we're headlining, we're headlining one of the nights at Hard Rock Hell. Okay, that's nice. So talk about being thrown into the fire.  The album's not even released yet. Is it Giles' fault? It'll be somebody's fault. But that's the first show, it was a headline in show at Hard Rock Hell on the 11th of November. And so it's gonna take a week while to rehearse up these tunes. I better get started. So November 11th, I see November 18th is that's when the package starts, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I can't read up, but it's starting off, I believe in the UK and then it's flipping to Ireland, right? Yeah. And there are some, there's one date on the 26th where Girl School plays one show and then Alcatraz plays a festival. Am I doing well? Am I doing good here? We do Winter Storm, which is in Tune on the West Coast of Scotland, which is a great little indoor festival in the Town Hall in Tune. And we're playing with Vandenberg and Hardline and some of these new up and coming rock and roll bands that you've been talking about, UK rock and roll bands are just great rock and roll bands, metal bands, rock bands. It's a great festival, that Winter Storm. It's like record, isn't it? Yeah, it's really good. Is Girl School in the Guinness World of Records as the longest? We've heard we have. Functional. I've never seen it, never seen it, but we should be because it's 43 years this year without splitting up. And when I looked at the timeline between the Runaways and we're talking about all girl bands here, right? We're talking about the Runaways, the Go-Go's and Girl School. And it was pretty much, the band started off in the same sort of era, right? Middle, yeah. Well, we must have been before Go-Go's because of Cathy Ballantyne left to go. That's right. So maybe at the same time, roughly, I don't know. But they split up and then got back together how many times now, so. Yeah, it's been, yeah. I feel school have never split up. In the 43 years, there's been 10 different members and Kim and Denise have been in it all the time. So they're the two. Do you ever see a girl school when you're a young lad? No, no, I never. You never saw them live?  I know. I've been saving them all up for these four months. One of my own being shot.  They must have been right in your area. No, not really. I used to go to the Glasgow Apollo or the Edinburgh Playhouse and I would go and see Sammy Hagar. He didn't play with them. I would go and see White Snake, Ozzy, stuff like that. And it was always Magnum or Marseille who were the support fans. They were always the guys that were the support fans then. And when I went to London, I went to the marquee if I had any money. But like I say, I was living in refried beans and dried toasts. We didn't really get to go anywhere. Interesting though, in Canada, girls to school really made their mark early there and I think they went gold off of it in Iran. Hitting, huh? Yeah, it really broke the ban. And more so in Canada than in the US. And so I guess there's this real history and legacy of girl school in Canada. That's kind of why we're talking today, right? Because we kind of grew up with it, right? Even though they didn't play it on mainstream radio, maybe late at night on the big radio stations, right? And that's it. So I saw Doogie when he came here. Now, how's the longest it been, Doogie? It's been what, three years? It was about three years ago in the snow. Well, I thought it was quite strong. It came in the day after the lift. But yeah, it was then. But my wife's a girl school fan and she's got the first four albums in vinyl somewhere through there. All the red ones and everything. She's been educating me. Now I'm good. Actually, I got a last question for Jackie here. Does it, do you feel like, man, I really, I wish I was part of it at the beginning, you know, like, you've been part of it for 22 years, that's a lot of time, right?  Like, you wish you started off with them. Yeah, it would have been nice. Obviously, I was still at school when they were doing it. So I'm just slightly younger, not that much younger, but a little bit. So I was just, I was in the punk rock back then in the 70s and early 80s. So yeah, different era. So it's always the right time and everything comes up at the right time for the right reasons, doesn't it? I wouldn't have been ready back then, I don't think. But I definitely wouldn't have been ready. But you know what I mean? Like you're hearing the ladies talk about, you know, the early years and you're saying, yeah, yeah, it just sounds like fun yet. Yeah, yeah, sounds like fun days. You got old days and you're like, you know, like the new girl and after 22 years, right? All right. All right. Great interview. Thank you so much. And everybody, you know, buy some tickets for the tour and look forward to the albums and we'll see you all when you guys come through Montreal, Canada. Yeah, hopefully so. Thank you very much. Cheers. Any last words? Get vaccinated so we can all get vaccinated. Get as old as you can.  Maybe people would be more inclined. The new merch line. The new merch line vaccination. I don't know. All right, guys. Thanks. You too, Louie. See you soon.


He even needs that many runs, but definitely felt very comfortable at that time of the game with him on the mound. He was cruising. He looked really good out there, his normal self, so just thought it was a complete game by our whole team again tonight. Thank you. Meredith Morakovits, please unmute. PJ, you've been consistent at the plate all season long, but how do you explain the offensive production in just the last two days? Seven for 10, three doubles, three home runs, eight RBIs. Just seeing the ball good right now, nothing in particular. I feel like my power numbers usually come in bunches and it's definitely been the case the last few days. When you are seeing the ball like that, how anxious are you to get back in the batter's box? I mean, it's definitely a good feeling going up to the plate, just being relaxed and just being able to just go out and compete and not worry about mechanics or timing or anything. Just go out there and compete and be loose. So it's definitely, when you're in a good zone, it makes hitting a lot more fun. Tom Merriam


From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. Hello everybody, welcome to this CUBE Conversation. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with Dave Faithful, who's the Chief Architect of WEI. Dave, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for having me. So, first tell me about WEI and then I want to understand your role there. Sure, at WEI I'm our Chief Architect responsible for driving technology solutions that we work with our customer base on. So, WEI is a value-added reseller supporting Fortune 1000 Enterprise customers. It takes us all over the world in supporting their environments. And we're typically designing and architecting IT service delivery models for those customers and aligning those architectures with their business needs.  You mentioned basically large companies and you're interacting. Who's your point of contact? Is it the architect to architect? Who are you talking to? It's all levels of the IT organization typically from the CIO on down. So, understanding what the business goals of our customers are and then working with those IT directors, IT managers and IT architecture leads to develop solutions that fit those business models. So, these days software-defined data center computing is big, creating service delivery models that are cloud-like in nature, whether on-prem or in a hybrid environment or a public service are things that our customers are trying to do. Migrating from that traditional IT architecture to this new software-defined world. So, we're going to talk about storage later on, but I wonder, thinking about the top level, the C-level executive in IT, is he or she, are they concerned about storage? What's on their mind? What's top of mind for those guys? Typically, it's really just how do they leverage IT to deliver value back to the business? How do they make their companies more competitive than the marketplace? How do they get their products out to market faster? Faster than before and faster than their competition. So, they're trying to leverage IT as a service, as a utility, and they're trying to create that utility model, that service delivery model, to support their business needs, which IT has to be more responsive than ever before. They don't have months to get something out. They have sometimes days or hours. And so, they've got to build those models while at the same time, right? They've got to support their existing traditional environment. So, they've got this juggling act. At the C-level, that's typically what we see they're worried about. How they get there is up to their IT organizations, right? Then, that's where we're helping them to architect those solutions. Yeah, so the CIOs that we talked to, I think they bought into the cloud narrative of, hey, you don't want to do this heavy lifting. You want to shift those resources to support whatever, digital transformation, or application delivery. But to get from point A to point B and keep the lights on is obviously challenging. So, you talked about some of the underlying rip currents and trends. You mentioned SDDC. Why is that important? First of all, what is it in your mind? How do you guys look at that? And why is it so important? Well, so, Suffer to Find Data Center Computing is really, Suffer to Find Anything is really the decoupling of the control plane from the data plane, right? How can we manage all of this data? Where it comes from and where it goes from a centralized, automated point. And so, what's important about that is it allows us to provision more quickly than ever before. It allows us to make changes more quickly than before. And it allows our data to be more portable than ever before. Giving us the ability to move information and data on-prem to a public service and back. Be able to replicate and back up data to really any place that we need it to be. And then making it more available for our global organizations to be able to get access to it at any time. In development environments, they follow the Sun methodology, right? Of being able to have access to that data for development teams all over the world is critically important. And public services as well as hybrid and other cloud delivery models allow them to do that. So it used to be pretty straightforward. We didn't maybe realize at the time that you'd build a basically an infrastructure stack, you'd support an application, you'd harden that and it kind of became its own silo as cloud comes into play, hybrid cloud. Now you're talking about multi-cloud. The picture gets a lot more complex. And you mentioned separating the control plane and the data plane as you go into this multi-cloud. Well, first of all, multi-cloud, I've said is kind of a symptom of multi-vendor. We sort of just got here. But now I think as is often the case in IT, people are saying, well, we have to control this. We have to have governance and compliance and security. So we better get IT to come fix this problem. Is that a viable sort of narrative from my standpoint? Is that how we got here? Or has it really been a strategy in your view? Well, I think it's both. I think more mature organizations understand now, maybe not at first, understand now that there's different reasons to use different services. So it may be that a particular public service has has some application environment or some process that is appealing to them. Maybe it complies with some sort of governance or compliance requirement. But there may also be times, and there are with most of our customers where they need to keep that information, that data on-prem for whatever reason, either due to security policy or due to compliance reasons or something else. And so organizations started to figure out they couldn't just put everything on one place, right? Even if it was a public service, that they needed the ability to have some data in different places and they needed that to be affordable. And so that was the challenge. And as organizations started to realize that, that hybrid cloud strategy was a sound one. They needed the technology to be able to support that. And so that's when we, when we start taking a look at software-defined solutions, we're looking at the ability of those solutions to be able to communicate back and forth, right? How do we move data back and forth? What products do we select that allow us to create API connectivity to all of those different end points, right? Whether it's a public cloud service or on-prem or both, how are we able to fluidly move data back and forth? Okay, so you had, and you also had a lot of shadow IT, which kind of, I feel like IT is beginning to rein in, at least from the standpoint of setting standards. But okay, so you just described this state of cloud. I'll call it cloud because to us, it seems that you're bringing the cloud experience wherever your data lives, could be on-prem, could be in cloud vendor A, B or C, some kind of hybrid structure. So how do you bring that cloud experience to wherever your data lives and what role does storage play? Yep, all right, so first there's a few high-level elements to, we'll call it this hybrid cloud model, right? One is a financial model. You know, in a public service today, we talk about the ability to go swipe a credit card and now you've got this instant access to infrastructure. That's a financial model that is easy to consume, right? But how do you do that on-prem? So we work with different partners to put together those financial models that are similar to public services in an on-prem consumption model. And so we can do things like capacity on demand, pay for what you need only when you need it, right? Expand and contract on-prem, just like you would in a public service. So that financial model is one place to start. The second place to start is with the infrastructure and you mentioned storage. And storage is a great example of that. So we want to have storage that has the ability to connect out to those public services or other platforms when we need them to, when we need it to. Matter of fact, the WEI, that's one of the things that we look at very carefully is, what is that second, third-mile approach to implementing all of this? How do we automate the movement of that data and the connectivity of all this infrastructure together? Well, you've got to have some automation that is customized to your environment because it's not a cookie-cutter approach. And so to be able to develop that automation is what we call the second-mile, third-mile service where we're connecting all of these things, right? So we want to be able to select a storage platform, for instance, that has API connectivity that we can leverage to connect to Microsoft Azure or to AWS or to Google or someplace else. And that we want to also be able to connect to our compute platforms that we're leveraging on-prem. And so in our network that is on-prem and that is extended out to those public services. And does the intelligence to enable that automation, does that live inside the infrastructure? Is it something that you have to bring to the table? Is it a combination or is it actually intrinsic now to the architectures that are out there? It's both. So there is more and more of that intelligence coming to the hardware being developed into the hardware. And some of our partners that we work with have done a really good job of building that into their solutions. HPE is an example with some of their storage platforms uses their info site capability to build intelligence and AI and machine learning into optimizing their storage platform and being able to give customers the ability to see problems before they even arise. So that's one piece of it. And the other piece of it is, are those APIs already written on the platform? Can we leverage those already? Do we have to develop that ourselves? Have they been developed to work with certain automation platforms that we can leverage? So yeah, a lot of this built into the infrastructure today and then how you customize that for your own use case. It requires someone experiencing and the capability to actually develop us automations. It's interesting, Dave. If you go back five, six, even seven, maybe even longer, years ago, people were really afraid of automation. They wanted knobs to turn. And so my question is, do you see people much more receptive? Why? What's changed? I mean, I do. People see much more receptive automation, but what's changed? Well, I think it's kind of actually what you just mentioned, right? People thought that there was this magic dial, magic knob that they could turn when they wanted infrastructure. I want more infrastructure. I'll turn it this way. I want less infrastructure. Turn it that way. Not really understanding the effort it took to make that happen in the background. And I think that there's more awareness now of what that effort is. We see organizations moving resources, meaning their people and their skills from traditional IT roles into these automation roles, giving them new skills to be able to support all of this ongoing automation requirement to be able to make the business more responsive. So instead of IT organizations being reactive like they used to, i.e. they would receive a request and then they would have to go in and architect around that request, they're actually building the infrastructure and the automations upfront. So when the request comes in, it can actually turn that dial up. So they're building the dial up by moving those resources into new skill sets. Well, so that's an interesting point about the skill sets. I mean, I've always often said if your main skill set is managing loans, you really want to update your skill sets and find a new job basically. So what are people doing? Are they moving into development? Are they moving into sort of becoming cloud architects? What would you advise somebody who's traditionally been a storage admin? What's their growth path? That's a good question. So yeah, we would advise them to stop managing loans and to move into different automation skill sets, different programming. Understand some of the programming languages out there now like Python and Perl and other things that are commonly used in developing these scripts. Understand API structures. And most of this is open, right? So if you understand it from a general sense, you'll be able to apply it to just about any platform. Understand automations behind provisioning infrastructure and the tools that are out there that are available to do that. And there's a lot of them. And we work with many of them with our customers today. And if you can develop those skill sets, you'll be able to manage in this new world, in this new hybrid IT and hybrid cloud world. And we talk about DevOps a lot, talk about infrastructure as code. But I still feel as though in many organizations that love your thoughts on this, it's still early days in terms of, there's probably more ops dev than there is DevOps. But what are you seeing in terms of the uptake of that DevOps philosophy programmable infrastructure and the skill sets to be able to support that within some of your larger customers? I think there's a separation there, right? When most organizations think about DevOps, they're thinking about their products or their own internal application development. And I think that when we talk about infrastructure, automation and provisioning, it's generally in most enterprise environments completely separate teams, right? And yes, a lot of that is coming together, but you've got one organization in IT that is creating a service for those DevOps teams, right? In the past, when we talk about shadow IT, was those DevOps teams who were swiping the credit card because they needed something instantly so they could develop something and then share it globally. And now we've got IT organizations who have stopped fighting that. And what they really wanna do is be able to deliver that same experience in a controlled, secured, and financially viable way, right? To be able to support those DevOps initiatives. Let's talk about your partnership with HPE. What are you guys doing with HPE? Kind of what sets you guys apart? Yeah, sure, so WEI is an HPE platinum partner and we work with HPE across really their entire portfolio and we understand their initiatives around data center automation, creating a hybrid IT environment. Some of the solutions that they have around the financial models, for instance, HPE GreenLake, is a way to create those cloud-like financial models in an on-prem environment and extend that out to public services so that you have that same experience of swiping that credit card in a public service. So, we work with HPE as they're a leader in IT infrastructure and have been for a long time and across all of their product lines for compute, storage, and networking. How important is GreenLake and how differentiable is it from other companies who do this? Is it pretty much table stakes to be able to have that sort of pay by the drink? Is there anything unique and different about GreenLake from your perspective? I mean, there is, right? Essentially, it's giving organizations the ability to have that public service experience on-prem and consume what they need, when they need it, and then, more importantly, capitalize that if they really want to. So, many organizations are trying to juggle that capital expense versus operational expense budget and so, GreenLake allows them to have that subscription-like experience in a capitalized model, which is important for many organizations. Ah, okay, but so, is it their choice to go up X or cap X? So, they can, okay. And I can understand why some organizations would want to do that. Maybe there's tax benefits, et cetera. Okay, good. I want to ask you about sort of cloud. So, it's a huge mega trend. One of the superpowers, as they say, we've heard the stats 80% of the sort of install base is still on-prem, only 20% has moved to the cloud. We talk a lot about cloud 2.0, kind of a play on web 2.0. What is that? Well, it's containers, it's hybrid, it's multi-cloud. If you're thinking about the next era of cloud, what do you see as 2.0, if we can kind of define that on the fly? Oh, boy. And on camera for 15 years. Yeah, there you go. I mean, there's a lot more. Are those reasonable parameters? Hybrid, multi-cloud, containers, maybe infrastructure as a code? Yeah, I mean, so. Or is it all BS, just acronym soup in our industry? No, I don't think it's BS, right? I think that, I mean, so let's take a look at the evolution of cloud, right? If you looked at it, say, into five years ago, maybe 10 years ago, everyone said that'll never happen. We would never put our data out there. It's not secure. And then you looked at it, say, five years ago or less, everyone was going to the cloud. We're just going to move everything. We're going to DR everything over to the cloud, and we're going to get rid of all our data centers. And then a couple years ago, everyone said, well, hold on a second, that's probably not realistic, right? There's a need to keep some data on-prem, either for compliance reasons or for technology reasons. I mean, we need this data close to us for other things. Who knows what it is? So hybrid cloud, and our abilities to create all of these processes internally, those automations to make that on-prem experience feel the same as it would in a public service, is where most enterprises have realized they need to be. So that's kind of been the journey to get here. Now, I think that that hybrid cloud experience that organizations are making these investments into right now is probably where they will be for the next five to 10 years, right? Now, what comes after that? You mentioned multi-cloud before, right? And I think that's probably a realistic expectation, right? As the commoditization of everything in IT occurs, this is just my speculation that that may occur in the cloud as well, right? And so as the affordability and as the network performance and the cost of that ability comes down and more and more commoditized, there'll be fewer and fewer reasons to make those on-prem investments. So I think a multi-cloud strategy becomes realistic for many organizations who have already started that, right? They've got some stuff in Google, we've got some stuff in Azure, we've got some stuff in AWS. But as we can make the platforms that our applications are running on kind of agnostic across cloud, it's just another service, all right? And organizations are gonna go for the lowest costs and lowest risk environment. If I can containerize most of my applications and I can move them from cloud to cloud because containers are very portable, why wouldn't I do that? I think that's where it could possibly go within the next decade or so. Yeah, if you can create that consistent experience across clouds. You and I have talked about this just in terms of the big hyper-cloud guys have taken labor costs out of the equation and now they can charge you for that convenience. But you believe that you can actually close that gap with on-prem infrastructure. And I've often said that the traditional companies, the tech vendors, they don't have to match the cloud capabilities, they just have to be cloud-like. They can be good enough. And so my question is, do you buy that and have they at least close the gap to the point where you can do a lot of the things that you can get in the public cloud and not have to pay for the automation so you can sort of replicate those substantially on-prem? So I agree, right? And here's an example of how I think that is happening. If you look at what, for instance, Microsoft is doing with Azure Stack, right? What is Azure Stack? It's the ability to extend Microsoft Azure Cloud on-prem by putting it in your data center. Now I've got this consistent platform across multiple locations on-prem and the cloud. AWS is doing the same thing. So that tells me that they also believe hybrid is gonna be around for a while, otherwise they wouldn't put effort into developing these platforms, right? To extend their own platform to your data center. So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's an example to me of why I think hybrid is the way that most organizations are going and that the industry in general, including those hyperscalers, believe that this is gonna be around for a while. I'm glad you brought up Microsoft because they're a fascinating example. Everybody talks about the innovator's dilemma and you would think that Microsoft was a company that was going to struggle with that, where they've clearly figured out, and they were early on with Azure Stack. And to your early point, it's about the control plane, the data plane, and being able to have that consistent experience across clouds. So okay, so my takeaway is, so infrastructure still is important these days. All these new emerging workloads matter. It's also important to be able to replicate substantially that cloud experience on-prem, in-hybrid, and that kind of sets up this, really this new architecture. I wonder if you could summarize your vision of what this new architecture looks like over the next five, 10 years. Well, I'll say it once again. The way to, how do I summarize this? Developing an automated IT service delivery model that is cloud-like in nature on-prem, and as well as extending that to public services and creating a single experience for your user base is where IT organizations are trying to put their effort today. That's how they're trying, that's what they're trying to get to you for the future, at least for the next five years or so. Creating a hybrid cloud environment is the way that they're going to accomplish that. Who they choose as public services is generally a business decision. It's not as much a technical decision, but what they put on-prem has got to be able to work with all of those environments. And that sort of summarizes what I think of cloud 2.0. We haven't even talked about the edge, but that's a whole, another equation. But the idea of leaving the data where it is, if that makes sense, and then shipping code to data is something that's been building out massive distributed networks that actually talk to each other. That is a great vision. Dave, you've been an awesome guest. Thanks so much for coming on the queue. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for having me. You're welcome, and thank you for watching, everybody. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time.


I'm Richard Emory, your host today for Kondo Insider. We talk about on this show association Living in Hawaii. And as I've said many times before, almost 40% of our population lives in some form of an association. And so understanding Kondo is probably important to some of you. And the best news yet is this is going to give you a break from all the drama of the presidential election. We can talk about Kondo's a mini form of democracy where Kondo board members get elected and serve their community. I would like to say without all the drama of the presidential election, certainly without the budget they have for the presidential election, but I can assure you that there's a lot of drama in being elected to a Kondo board in some associations here in Hawaii. Every year we probably have 30 to 40 removals of boards of directors because owners or some percentage of owners are unhappy with their Kondo board. So today I decided I would review what I call the seven deadly sins by an elected Kondo board. Because if you look at all the legislation, excuse me, all the legal lawsuits on Kondo boards, there's some common characteristics would get people into being sued or striped for drama with the owners regarding a Kondo board. And it narrowed into what I call the seven deadly sins and actually attorney Richard Ecomodo came up with a similar presentation many years ago and my sins are a little different than his sins, but I like the title anyway, so I'll give Richard Ecomodo credit for the title and say maybe some of the content overlaps, but probably some new content as well. So let's just talk about what I see are the basic mistakes that Kondo boards make once they're elected and we'll go through them in simple terms. The number one and biggest mistake always forevermore is the first sin, which is know your authority. The fact you've been elected and you have a mini form of government, meaning you have a Kondo board of an association that's really represented by the legal instruments called the declaration and the bylaws, although you have house rules and some other things, but for the practical sense, the bylaws of the association. The declaration kind of defines what you own and what you own, what an apartment is, what a common element is, what your obligation to pay maintenance fees are, but the bylaws, which is established by the declaration gives the board written authority to do certain things. So they can't do whatever they want. They're limited in what they can do by their authority as defined in the bylaws of an association. Too many times boards think, well, we're elected. It's our association. We can do whatever we want and no, that's not true. You can't do whatever you want. You're limited to what you can do by the bylaws. Let me give you an example of a lawsuit I recently was engaged. Some of you may know I do a lot of expert witness work, but let me give you the example that a master association, which had seven condo associations within it, had a 30-year-old association, so well established their rules and how it worked. So what happened was in this association, the current board said, you know, we don't like the rule that says not less than 30-day rentals. They wanted to change it to not less than 180-day rentals. So they wanted to make it more difficult to rent short term like 30 days and make it 180 days. Now, understand this association had been operating for 30 years and people bought their saying these are the rules of the association and certainly rules can be changed by a vote of the owners, but then you have issues of grandfathering because people who bought under the original understanding like getting on a cruise ship and we're all going to Tahiti and we get into the on our way and and half or more of the people on the ship vote to go to San Francisco. Wouldn't be fair with it. So the reality of it is you you have this association to want to change their rules with regard to rentals. So they went out to the owners. They said we'd like permission to change this to 180 days. Really didn't define grandfather anything else, but let's keep it simple. They want to change it to 180 days and you know what? It failed. Not enough owners voted for it. So the board in its infinite wisdom said, you know, I think it's with our authority to tell our board members who were appointed by their condo to serve on the master board. It's another authority to say you were appointed by your condo. So everybody who did not vote you get to vote for them and we're going to change the rules because you're going to vote based on your personal preference for every condo owner who didn't vote in the original association master vote solicitation to change the rules. And so they did. And so all of a sudden now the board is saying it's within their authority to have these condo board representatives vote for the board member or the owners within the condo who didn't vote at all. And so it passed. And so then they set a notice to all the owners saying you no longer can rent less than 180 days and we're going to find you $500 a day if you rent less than 180 days. Well the story goes on and one of the owners who have lived there forever and each are very expensive homes and condos said you can't do that. And the board said yes, we can. It's within our authority and we decided that that's how we're going to vote. And in enforcement of that they decided to go hire a enforcer and they gave the enforcer the title of sheriff. And so in their wisdom the board said okay enforcer, sheriff, we want you to go out and enforce these rules and go knock on doors of people staying there and and ask to see their rental agreement. And you know what the first person they decided to do it to was the owner who objected and filed a lawsuit against them saying you can't do that. So anyway the sheriff goes up knocks on the door. Nice young lady answers the door and he said I'm the sheriff of this association and I want to see your rental agreement. She says I don't have a rental agreement. He says well you you're supposed to have a rental agreement. How long are you staying here for? And she said three weeks. And he said oh you can't stay here for three weeks you have to leave.  So meanwhile the board then sent a demand letter to the owner and started finding him $500 a day and he said you can't do that and and they then started foreclosure on his house. Of course in that process they neglected to ask probably I considered an important question. Who was the person staying in the house? What happened to be the owner's daughter who is allowing to stay there for the purposes of her vacation? It was his family. He could let her stay. And so meanwhile this particular matter went to binding arbitration with an arbitration panel and two things happened well many things happened but two important things. Number one the arbitration panel said you don't have the authority to vote for somebody else and voided the amendment that said not less than 180 days. And the second thing they did was said you violated your authority within the bylaws and the $350,000 that this owner spent to fight you on this amendment you have to reimburse the owner that $350,000. That's an example simply put where the board says that we have the authority because we're the board of this association. We can do every one. We can make whatever laws you want. We can do things with everyone. No that's not true. You are granted specific authorities within the bylaws of what you can do and what you don't define what you can't do but it does define affirmatively what you can do. And you've got to be conscious of that because over and over again we see boards think that they can make rules change things because they're the board when in fact they may not have been invested at authority. They may have to go to the owners for approval. Some of them may be in violation of current federal or state laws. They have a process they have to go through when managing the association and they don't have the simple ability to do whatever they want to do and that goes on to claim after claim after claim from emotional support animals to putting in wood floors to how you handle a plumbing league, how do you handle a damage claim. These are all clearly defined not only in the statute but in your governing documents and you really don't have the authority to do that. What I hear often times by and I just heard this last week to be honest with you on another condo is that well I'm a board member now I have a fiduciary duty I have to do the things to protect the owners and I have to do things to protect what I believe is the best for the association and I have a fiduciary duty and that's why I'm doing these things. Well let me make sure you understand one thing about fiduciary duty because you're elected doesn't mean your fiduciary duty is to you yourself and your agenda. Your duty as an elected director is to the association so if the board majority votes on something let's say four to one on to do something paint the building blue and they have the authority in the bylaws to paint the building blue your fiduciary duty is to support the board.  You have a duty to the association and you have a duty to the lawful decision of the majority of the board of directors to support those lawful decisions to be enacted. So when people keep using this I have a fiduciary duty their fiduciary duty is to the association through its board of directors and so long as it's a lawful decision you have an obligation to support it even if you're on a losing side doesn't mean you can't express yourself and be totally transparent about how you feel but once the vote is taken and it's recorded your duty is to support the decision of the majority of the board because the majority of the board has an active decision but they feel is the best way for you to enact something so I don't like to hear that fiduciary duty I hear it all the time I have a fiduciary duty to do this screw you you don't have a fiduciary duty that you have your duties to the association and for the lawful decision for the board so the fact you have a personal agenda you don't agree is totally irrelevant to everything and that's interesting because we're about halfway through the program and we're on sin number one but the good news is sin number two through seven seven go much faster than this one this is the the one I want to spend the most time on so on that note we're going to take a one minute break and hustle through sins number two through seven and I can guarantee you one of them is not drinking red wine at a board meeting I think maybe drinking red wines are a good thing in a board meeting but either way we'll be right back and talk about sins two through seven in one minute hello I'm back and I'm sure you've had a chance to contemplate everything I said in sin number one but it's basically you know what your authority is you can't exceed it and number two your fiduciary duty is to the association if you're on the board not to your own individual agenda or to the owners of the whole your job is to enact the decisions that are well made by the board so that's kind of how sorry I wait through sins two through seven since being an old timer here in the industry and being an expert I could go on and on with case examples of every one of these things that have resulted in a problem for association two number two when you're trying to make complex decisions seek professional advice ask your lawyer ask your architect ask your engineer don't try to guess it yourself you will be more in jeopardy if you have made decisions in the board and you don't have professional advice to back it up so if you think this is the proper fix for the building or the proper engineering or you can think that you can let's just use some ec 500 to fix the cracks which is shugu by the way you need to when you look at the association and then avoid risks for yourself is to use professional advice and yeah it's a cost to it but a lawyer or the architect engineer you're much better off relying your decisions based on experts and trying to just make it up yourself because you want to save a buck and not spend it on professional fees you know and sometimes you may get information that doesn't make sense to you for a professional we'll get a second professional opinion you know I just recently was in a condo that the professional said we need to fix these 400 square foot decks and it's $170,000 a deck well we went to another expert they said now we can do it for $10,000 a deck here's the reasons why you don't need to expend that much money but the key is the board made a decision based on professional advice so they have prevented any risk for themselves by relying on a expert not trying to say we know better than somebody else the third decision is make a decision in the first place I mean if you have these decks that are leaking and the cracks are there and you can't decide how much to spend or what expert to use you know the decks getting worse by the time when more water gets into the decks the more problems you have you can't continually to say well we can't make a decision until we get 100% of the board members to agree what the decision is going to be you've got to at some point in time make a decision that democracy takes place and certainly you can vote no and you can explain why you're voting no but at the end of the day at some point in time you have to make a decision for the for the association to be successful I know associations that had numerous irrigation leaks for years and they spend lots of money repairing them during the years but they don't want to get the major decision well how do we stop these leak what major expense do we have to kind of put this and dip it into bud so at some point then we're going to make a decision the fourth common sin is we can't raise the maintenance fees everybody said I don't want to raise the maintenance fees well first why don't I like the word maintenance fees it's an operating expense you got water sewer you got employee medical insurance you got all sorts of expenses but everybody goes into this say we can't raise the maintenance fees well you know this is called a zero-sum budget you collect enough money to pay your bills and save money for reserves so if in fact during the year HECO raises the electric rates the board of water supply raises the water rates HMSA raises the medical insurance rates for your employees meanwhile your insurance goes up because of all the fires in California yes they do affect insurance costs why do you think you can't raise maintenance fees so what do you do well let's just reduce the contributions to reserves let's pay now or pay me later you got to put the money in reserves if you've done a reasonable reserve study so you can't be afraid of having what I call inflationary increases of maintenance fees every year it's bound to happen and unless you have some safe money saving grace that the roof costs you more than you needed in the in the reserve studies who saves the money or you're able to manage your property with one less maintenance guy whatever it may be unless you have some significant change in your operating or reserve cost why would you not think maintenance fees can go up every year they are going to go up every year or for most places they're going to go up every year and they should be at an inflationary rate you know of course we see with new developer projects they seem to go up at a much larger rate and that's another day for another story why that happens but the reality is you can't go into a board most people will tell you most management tell you to say the first thing you do when you do a budget for next year is you do all the cost in the reserve study then you add that all up and that tells you how much the maintenance fee should be it shouldn't be this is the maintenance fees we can have a three percent increase let's make the numbers and plug them because what do you do if you don't plug it right you're short money so what do you do you don't fund your reserves and end up an assessment or a loan down the road so you can't go into this thinking you're never going to raise maintenance fees or your duty is never to raise maintenance fees because this is not going to happen that way another sin fifth sin is maintain the property i've seen more litigation arbitration where owners have followed a claim against the board that they're not maintaining the poor the tennis courts or the landscaper or the lawn because they don't want to spend the money or they don't have the money reserves they just simply don't do anything they don't maintain the property and then when there was a lawsuit arbitration and a kailua project where the arbitrator ruled that the board didn't maintain the property and forced the board to raise the maintenance fees and forced the board to allow the arbitrator to make sure that all the reserve components were fixed and think about this way these mortgage companies lenders take us collateral this apartment to use mortgage and they want their property guaranteed and protected and the values maintained and not fixing the water sewer pipes or not fixing the crack in the pool or not repairing the air conditioning system is not a good thing it doesn't protect your property values and your duty is under your documents is to maintain the property so not maintain the property and you know we're in a world that things are more expensive so you have to just get get used to it that way you have to do these things to maintain your values and and you can't simply not raise the maintenance fees so next which is going to be number six is most boards fail at all this and they get all these owners upset because they fail to communicate with them properly and often most owners the budget if you're waiting for 100% of the owners agree with everything you're doing forget it never going to happen but if in fact you correctly communicate to the owners the challenges you have with the budget with the enforcement of the rules and you go to the extent to not only communicate with them but include them in board meetings where they're entitled to speak to really present these pictures and let them be heard you're going to be much better off than if you don't put any energy into communicating with them with email today you don't need fancy newsletters and things like that but simply short concise regular email from the president or from the board and and and read your information with regard what's going on what the challenges are even before you've made a decision the challenge may be what are we going to do with the broken air conditioning system there's two theories one replace the cooling tower one replace the whole system we're hiring an engineer to evaluate that look for the most reasonable way to do it maybe spending a quarter million dollars to temporarily fix it and you get only one year life out of it before you have to spend a million dollars to replace them maybe that's a good this isn't bad this isn't probably a bad this spent a quarter million dollars to extend the life by one year but all that's back to use an expert but if you don't tell the owners what's going on what you're thinking in my my experience then most owners understand what the issues are and most owners are very capable of digesting even though they may not like the message that they we have to do something to protect our property and spend the money you can't measure yourself by the maintenance fees or and if you do that you just the property go to heck in a basket you know then you then you've reached your fiduciary duty because the I haven't seen any documents that doesn't say that your authority is includes the responsibility to maintain the property so the last one and this is where I see more at the legislature than people making all these accusations the seven sin is avoid conflicts of interest or the perception of a conflict of interest I hear in every legislative session someone say our board has a conflict of interest well the state law is very clear if you have a conflict of interest you can't vote you have to abstain so it's going to rely on the majority of the other directors without a conflict to vote but they say they have a conflict of interest because they voted for themselves in the annual meeting that's not a conflict of interest you know a conflict of interest is that they're going to award you the roofing contract and you're a roofer and you're on the board then you should abstain from that conflict doesn't prevent the six non-conflict of board members from voting and giving it a contract it just means you can't vote but all these people who are disgruntled seem to run out conflict of interest conflict of interest and it's not necessary to have the conflict just to perception of the conflict so if you do everything in open transparent board meetings then in fact and you don't vote when there is a conflict of interest then in fact you have you've done what they should do so quick review we're down to three minutes is number one sin one is know your authority sin two seek professional advice and your decision making three don't avoid making a decision make a decision and get things done for forget the mindset you can't raise maintenance fees you've got to make make sure your costs are covered and you're funding the reserves as appropriate next maintain the property don't let your property go to go to crap because in effect you have an obligation to maintain it and it affects your property values it affects the quiet enjoyment of you living there then communicate to owners often and intelligently don't wait for the last minute when you have an assessment you want to be able to tell them we're these the challenges we're facing and it's probable or it's possible that we may have to increase fees or or do a special assessment I can guarantee you this that'll get you people at a meeting if you tell them we're thinking of having a special assessment so if you want attendance at a meeting what a better way is there to to do that than to tell them the truth I mean there's nothing wrong with transparency or the truth and finally is avoid perceptions of a conflict of interest that they think that somehow because you know at the end of the day the board has to pay the same maintenance fees the same assessment as everybody else so avoid their parents in the perception of a conflict of interest and from my experience those are the seven deadly sins of a board of directors again pointing out to sin number one know your authority because you don't have the ability to do whatever you want and I probably could write another bunch of sins about don't retaliate against owners and don't do this and don't do that but we're down to a few seconds left on the show so I hope you were able to learn something about the seven deadly sins and if you're on the board for you an owner you've learned something to help make your association a better place we thank you for watching condo insider and wanting to learn more about condo living and we will have another show next week thursday at three o'clock and aloha


Hi and welcome to the session. My name is Reshi and I am going to help you with the following question. Question is, on comparing the ratios A1 upon A2, B1 upon B2 and C1 upon C2, find out whether the lines representing the following pairs of linear equations intersect at a point or parallel or coincident. Equations are 6x minus 3y plus 10 is equal to 0 and 2x minus y plus 9 is equal to 0. First of all, let us understand that in a pair of linear equations A1x plus B1y plus C1 is equal to 0 and A2x plus B2y plus C2 is equal to 0. We have, if A1 upon A2 is not equal to B1 upon B2, then the lines intersect each other. If A1 upon A2 is equal to B1 upon B2 is equal to C1 upon C2, then lines are coincident. If A1 upon A2 is equal to B1 upon B2 is not equal to C1 upon C2, then lines are parallel. This is the key idea to solve this question. Let us now start with the solution. Rewriting the equations given in the question we get 6x minus 3y plus 10 is equal to 0 and 2x minus y plus 9 is equal to 0. Now these equations are of the form A1x plus B1y plus C1 is equal to 0 and A2x plus B2y plus C2 is equal to 0. Comparing the equations, we get the value of A1 is equal to 6, B1 is equal to minus 3, C1 is equal to 10, A2 is equal to 2, B2 is equal to minus 1, C2 is equal to 9. Now A1 upon A2 is equal to 6 upon 2 which is further equal to 3, B1 upon B2 is equal to minus 3 upon minus 1 which is equal to 3, C1 upon C2 is equal to 10 upon 9. Here we can see A1 upon A2 is equal to B1 upon B2 is not equal to C1 upon C2. Therefore by key idea the lines representing the equation 6x minus 3y plus 10 is equal to 0 and 2x minus y plus 9 is equal to 0 are parallel. Hence the lines are parallel is the required answer. This completes the session. Hope you understood the session well. Take care and goodbye.