Matters Online Conference. It's been a wonderful day and we have another great panel coming up now. This one is on challenges and opportunities for neurodivergent inclusion and collegiate arts. So great stuff to talk about. We have the wonderful Michael John Carly here to moderate the discussion. So now I'm gonna hand it over to him. Take it away Michael. Thank you Clay. Welcome everybody to what I think is gonna be a really, really wonderful panel. I'm going to ask the panelists actually to introduce themselves primarily in just a moment. But I'd first like to just share with you just a little bit about my background. And then if I'm doing my job as the moderator that will be the last you hear about my personal experiences. So I wear a lot of different hats in the autism aspect of the world. I've started non-profits. I've consulted for schools. I write, I speak, yada, yada, yada. I was diagnosed back when I was a minor league diplomat during the day and a starving playwright by night along with my then four-year-old son as what we now know as the autism spectrum. And so Clay having sort of brought me back to this after years and years of a theater career that I just figured was long and dead. So this has been a real joy for me to kind of reinvigorate all those old feelings and remember how the arts benefit me so much in two particular areas just having to do with my autism. Number one, of course, was theory of mind issues because before theater, I promised you I was one of those people that could not comprehend that somebody else was thinking something differently than I was thinking. And I remember those first encounters when you're playing with characters and the directors like Michael, you understand that the characters thinking something differently from you and you're thinking to yourselves, are you kidding me? What, why would you say that? And it also helped me sort of resolve a lot of motor skills issues because finally as there was this person monitoring my body sometimes in cruel manners that I didn't exactly appreciate at the time, but Michael, what are you doing with your hands? Well, I never noticed I was doing anything with my hands. And whether we want to go down that road as to what's proper assimilation or what's not so long as assimilation is being done within the context of choices, I'm all for it. And I did want to at least know how other people thought of what my body looked at. And there was nothing like a theater director to tell you what you looked like. So it benefit me tremendously if you're after any more of my information, I of course have one of those shamelessly self promotional author websites. It's michaeljohncarly.com but this particular panel, you're in for a treat because as Clay told you, it's a mouthful of a title. And we know that challenges and opportunities allow the title sometimes converge into one happy little kernel there and sometimes aren't so irregardless of one another. We have professors, we have university think tank people here and we have a couple of students too, so or former students. And I'm a former student of an MFA program myself. So maybe I'll sneak something in but Mark starting with you and then Leon, Ava and Dave take it away and introduce yourselves to everybody. And just thank you all again so much for joining us. Thank you, Michael. I'm Mark Charney. I am director of the School of Theater and Dance at Texas Tech for 27 years or so. I was at Clemson University and I've directed an English program and now theater and dance. I think one of the reasons I'm here is that I'm Clay's mentor. When he came to earn his MFA at Texas Tech, he was the person responsible for our connecting and partnering with the Burkhart Center for studies and autism. And we created under Clay's sort of mentorship, our relationship, we call it Burkh Tech Players. And Burkh Tech Players is an organization that's run sort of equally by those in the spectrum and some of our students. So I think that's why I'm here and thanks for having me, Michael. Thank you, Mark. Dave. Hi, my name is Dave Osmondson. I am an MFA student in dramatic writing at Arizona State University. Today's actually my last day of classes. So yay. I'm a playwright and I'm also a dramaturg and I was diagnosed with Asperger's when I was three years old. Okay, thank you. Ava. Hello, thanks for having me. I'm Ava Rigelhout and I will be graduating Sarah Lawrence College, which is in New York State this May. And I am a founding member of Spectrum Theater Ensemble since 2017. So I've known Clay for a while. And through that, I worked with Trinity Repertory Company to produce their first full sensory friendly season. And this year at Sarah Lawrence College, through being a Ruderman Foundation, Ruderman Family Foundation, including an ambassador, I worked to add accessibility onto my campus. And so I also brought my sensory friendly work over to school and helped them create a show, a production of they were putting on head over heels. So I helped them make that musical sensory friendly for that year, along with a panel similar to this of industry professionals who are interested in accessibility for all people and people with autism. Excellent, Ava. Thank you. But I must tell you that, you know, obviously you're lacking a little bit of media control skills because you've clearly got the press banging on your door wanting to hear about, you know, your opinions as we go through this panel here. But Leon, welcome. Hi, thanks. Good to be with everyone. My name is Leon Hilton. I'm an assistant professor of theater and performance studies at Brown University. So I'm coming to you from Providence. And yeah, some of my academic work is looking at representations of autism, disability and neurodiversity in theater and performance. But I'm also kind of interested more broadly in how questions around neurodiversity can sort of shift our understanding of what performance means and sort of theories of performativity and how we understand those terms and related concepts. So, and I've also been kind of collaborating with Spectrum for a couple of years now. And it's really great that they're local. So it's been really nice to have a connection between our department and this really exciting, I think, innovative and kind of theater company that's like, you're really at the forefront of this conversation. So happy to be with you all. Excellent. Thank you, Leon. You know, I forgot to mention also, I too am a native, former native of Providence, Rhode Island, and it was where I grew up. So there's been that connection as well.  Would you mind? Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, when we sort of were having a conversation and preparation for this panel and you asked us to sort of think about this question. Yeah, I think, you know, one of the challenges that came to mind immediately was trying to think about, you know, so often I think work and disability, maybe or particularly around autism and neurodiversity happens under the auspices of maybe some other kind of, you know, an institution on campus. So maybe that's like a medical school or a public health school or an education, you know, school of education. And often the conversation around disability happens in relationship to these sort of like helping professions, people who are training to go into therapeutics in some way or medical fields. And I think that one of the things that I'm particularly interested in is how neurodiversity really can be understood more properly as a kind of social or cultural or political movement. And, you know, what does it mean to kind of carve out a space for thinking about neurodiversity that is separate from the kind of, you know, professional training in kind of therapy or medicine or other kinds of fields in which experiences of autistic people or neurodiversion people are necessarily at the center of who's making the kind of decisions around those kinds of questions. So, I mean, I think one of the challenges that I've been trying to kind of work through or think about is, you know, how do we kind of create disability cultural spaces that are kind of autonomous or kind of working on their own terms? And so, yeah, that's like a challenge. And I think, not to say that, you know, I'm collaborations with medical schools or public health schools or other kinds of, you know, neuroscience research isn't an exciting and important aspect of this work. I think it really can be. It's a favorite conference, you're good. But I just think that, you know, it's really, you know, how do we really foreground the kind of artistic integrity, right, of this work and not be attached to any kind of other motivation, right? And so I think there's a lot of complicated questions around that and I'd be happy to kind of talk more about that. And then I could also talk about an opportunity, I don't know if I should keep going, but I could also pause there.  And I've got yours based on what you told me. So I'll come back, definitely. Ava, can we go next to you? What are some of the challenges and opportunities that you especially as a present student see? Yeah, so I think as Leon was saying that I came up with some ideas from our meeting about this panel and to make it a little bit more general, I think one of the challenges and opportunities is just generally that schools need to become more aware of the vast differences of disabilities and accessibilities, et cetera, both physical and mental disabilities that are on the college campus. And I think that's one of the challenges because people can be aware of them, but because there's so many and there's so nuance, many people feel it's like trying to solve global warming that you just don't know where to start and that, and so they don't start anywhere. And it can be a struggle, of course, because what can really help with one person with autism might not help another person with autism. But that also can be an opportunity because you can work with people and talk about and try many different things, such as some people might not like sensory friendly shows and some people might really like them. And so I think that's what was really interesting. And so it was also interesting when I was working with Trinity that they had some of their shows altered and some of them just with a sensory trigger list. And I think it was really great because not everyone wants a full altered show. Some people just want like a warning, like there's going to be a gunshot here. And also many people with PTSD in Rhode Island from veterans, et cetera. Also we're not expecting that but we're actually very happy at the end. They're like, wow, this was really helpful during death of a salesman. So I think that's a challenge and an opportunity for any institution. Okay, excellent. Thank you. I get the question for you. Dave, can we go to you? Sure. I think in terms of challenges, I think one challenge that I notice a lot of my students who are on the spectrum is feeling seen and feeling like there is someone who's on their side and an ally and something that I tend to do is I'm very open about my autism. I think there was one class where I kind of just said it as a thing that not a lot of people know about me because a lot of people don't know I'm autistic right off the bat. And I had a few students come up to me and say, thank you for being so open about that. So I think there is an opportunity there in being more open about our autism as professors and people in higher ed to help students feel seen. And I think another challenge to take that a little further is having LGBTQ students who are on the autism spectrum be seen. And I think there's an opportunity there of how can they navigate not just the theater community which is built very much on relationships but maybe also even the queer community. That's just something that I can start thinking about. I don't have much else to say but I think there is an opportunity there to be an ally for not just students on the spectrum but also LGBTQ students on the spectrum. And actually I'm going to have to point to a question now in addition to the follow-up question can you maybe just elaborate more on and whether this is the queer community or your students with autism what you mean by being seen? I mean, I think I know but I would love to hear you sort of elaborate more on that. Sure, being seen I think another way of putting it would be being acknowledged as if to say yes. But is this identity? Or is this through just knowledge secondhand that oh, that person's queer or that person's on the spectrum? I think it's identity. I don't have like a fully formed answer but yeah, I would say it's identity. Yeah, like basically just communicating to students like you are not alone, we're all together, et cetera. Okay, thank you, I appreciate that. Mark, thank you for waiting. What's your challenge and opportunity? You know, as a director of a program I always look at the opportunities sort of based on the connection that we've made. The beginning I think what you have to do is have students who are really interested in helping to reach out with populations that are other. And I understand what you're saying, Dave in terms of being seen, R started with a theater and dance in the community class. And so when I took over a couple of years into it we realized that if we weren't serving the community we really weren't serving the population we should have been serving. So we put together a course called theater and dance in the community and we went all over wherever people needed us. We had graduates working with undergraduate students and we were sharing the idea of art. Well, three of those classes were with the autism center the Burkhart Artism Center. And we realized that there was a terrific connection there there was a terrific need there. In the middle of the first semester a young man who was 11 who had never spoken before said, I want my voice to be heard in the middle of an exercise. When you have, I mean, that's a wonderful moment, right? That's the sort of thing that swells your heart. You're not gonna have that all the time but we had this success enough with our students who had no training on how to work with students on the spectrum but just came at it with all their heart, right? So the opportunities are plentiful. We as theater artists and practitioners or dance artists and practitioners want to learn to communicate with every sort of population that we can. And so we found that creating the Burkhart players which was run by students in our program and students on the spectrum equally with an artistic director shared, boy, we learned a lot. We learned a lot. Our students learned a lot. They learned a lot. Suddenly we became part of this bigger thing. The challenges are always seemingly financial. Right now, this has gotten to be such a major thing that out of 52 graduate students who have assistantships and fellowships, something like 11 work with architecture with the Burkhart Center, not all of them 20 hours but a lot of folks work there and we're adding two extra productions a year. We're adding workshops. Believe it or not, financial isn't really a challenge. You can put this work together with people who are just willing. So I think the biggest challenge, Michael would be to begin this. I mean, start this. Have somebody who's interested in starting it and you don't have to have buckets of knowledge to communicate with people who are willing. That's awesome. That's awesome. Thank you, Mark. I'm gonna go in reverse order and I'm going to sort of ask the follow-up question actually of you. And that is that, you mentioned the finances as maybe not being the biggest hurdle up there but it is a hurdle for a lot of people and but you pose a good question in the context that just because you have a bunch of money what would you do with it to make it more inclusive to make it more inclusive department? If as the administrator of this panel if I dropped a million dollar donation on you and told you use this money to make your department infinitely more inclusive of everybody doesn't even have to be neurodiverse students of everybody. How do you go about spending that money? Well, we're always doing productions. We always need a place to go. We always need graduate students who are going to work and study to train. We always need some compensation for students who are putting all of this time in after hours on the weekends. I'd love to pay artists. I always love to pay artists but our graduate students who are working are paid and over the Burkhart Center, Dr. Dotson who runs that center also pays their students for being involved. So you never don't want to pay artists. We, the level of sophistication in terms of the theater that we produce that can be more elaborate if we have a bigger budget. We could also reach out maybe beyond the Burkhart Center. I mean, that's where we're sort of landed and that's the population we're serving. But they also pay quite a bit to be part of that center and we may be missing a population in the community who's not paying through the Burkhart Center that we can reach out for. We also could bring in guest artists who are more well-versed at working artists who are well-versed at working like a lot of you. I mean, I could see bringing in each of you to sort of help what we're doing. And we do bring in guest artists. Jason Williams, the sort of famous author of Greater Tuna has a son who is severely on the spectrum. He took a great interest. So he was volunteering left and right at the very beginning. But we'd like to have a more structured sense. I know I want to bring Clay and Spectrum Theater in to introduce nice this year. And that's going to cost some money, right? Because you want to pay travel, you want to put them up. We've done some work with sensory friendly shows. We need to have every one of our shows sensory friendly. We do. And it's not like, oh, let's play with this with one show. I mean, to me, if we're serving a population, so that probably costs a bit too. Okay, thank you. Dave, I'm going to switch back to you going in the reverse order thing. And I hope you don't mind this question. And please tell me if you do or you don't. But I'm old enough not to age myself out here, but I was doing theater in New York during the entirety pretty much of the AIDS crisis. And I certainly can remember how just, as somebody who embraced the theater community probably in part, not just because I like theater, but also because I was weird. And this was a community of people that were okay with the fact that I was weird. And I think that there was a lot of that for the LGBTQ community back then. And as a younger person, I'm kind of wondering, especially if the LGBTQ population feels the need to be seen, that you're seeing that in your population. I'm wondering, has maybe the relevance because the rest of the world isn't so homophobic as it used to be. Has that almost made the need for theater that the LGBTQ community so clearly wanted and desired, has that kind of made the need for theater almost dissipate to the point where we now need to start creating programs to encourage the LGBTQ populations to come back to the theater? Could you talk on that? Sure, I mean, even if there is generally less homophobia in the world, there is always gonna be homophobia somewhere. That's essential, that's never going to go away. And I think there's also a really interesting intersection that hasn't really been explored with queerness and autism. I was talking in the panel earlier today about how I feel like autism is a way of kind of queering neuro-typicality. I think what I see a lot of in contemporary entertainment surrounded the LGBTQ community is that a lot of the, I feel like the narrative of the white straight passing male who comes out as gay is kind of the, has become like the dominant narrative. And I think there is a huge opportunity for more diverse stories within the LGBTQ community, especially in terms of disability. I mean, I think the only, again, I said it's my last answer, I think the only story I can think of that deals with LGBTQ and disability is the Netflix series special, which is great if you haven't seen it. And I think there, it's really good. And I personally, I'm exploring in my work kind of about, again, the intersection between autism and queerness. So I think there's always gonna be another story about the LGBTQ experience to tell, regardless of whether there is homophobia or not in the world. Cause I think there's still so many facets of that experience that have not been explored and I think could be explored through more intersectionality. Okay, thank you. I'm gonna actually comment on that, if you don't mind, because one of the nonprofits that I founded in New York was an organization called Grasp, which at the time was the largest membership organization for adults on the spectrum of the world. And of all of our, I think we had roughly 9,000 fully subscribed members when I left in 2013, but we had an infinitely higher percentage of LGBTQ folks in our membership than the neurotypical world would present. And I maybe was oversimplifying my interpretation of that, and that is just that when you have already gone through the painful process of coming out about anything, whether you're on the spectrum or whether you're LGBTQ to the rest of the world, that maybe that just makes the second coming out process infinitely easier because you know, you're not gonna die. Basically when that after that first coming out process is over and you're like, oh my God, quote unquote, it gets better, whichever one it might be. Would you agree with that? I mean, I think both queerness and autism are stigmatized in different ways. I've generally seen more hostility tour, okay, so I guess I've generally seen more of a hostility towards LGBTQ people. And I feel like with the autistic community. In Arizona now, remember. That's fine. And I feel like a lot of this stigmatization from the autistic community kind of comes more of a lack of understanding, I think, about how autistic people see the world. And then that's why I think it's really important to in plays about neurodiversity to really center those narratives. Because I see a lot of stories about how neurotypical people relate with autistic people. And I think we need to see more stories that center autistic people and how they see the world in order to foster a larger understanding. And I think art and theater can be really, really conducive in accomplishing that. Thank you. There was actually a second point too, which I'll just throw out there before I pass it on. But the whole notion that folks like you and I don't really pick up on gender expectation as much as neurotypicals do in the early stages. And while that's always been thought of as a detriment, I think it's actually an incredible attribute that just allows us to be ourselves so much easier than most folks have it. Thank you for answering that question. I really appreciate it. Ava, I would like to ask you a question because a lot of what you talked about, sort of emanated from this idea maybe you've encountered some college administrations which maybe just have a little bit of a push-pull thing going on and that might be resistant to ideas that you see, I didn't wanna get you fired Leon. So I'm asking Ava this question. And the whole concept of what to you is a no-brainer, why are you hitting a brick wall when you submit these ideas to the administration? And from my experience, at least in the employment world and dealing with corporate types for folks on the spectrum trying to get internships, one of the things that I clearly had to quickly realize was that the secret to success in these matters was making the company or the administration confident that they could make the experiment work. And if you can, and Mark, I might come back to you on this because you probably have a lot to say on this as well, but if you can make that institution confident that there's not gonna be any drawbacks that will have them answering to their trustees or to their shareholders, that it's really almost a salesmanship job that granted because of our diagnosis sometimes we suck at, would you agree with that? And if so, how would you come about changing that or making that sales pitch? And if you don't agree with that, what would be your strategy for changing institutions? First of all, I understand your question. Sure. You had proposed, I think, some ideas where you had brought maybe some sense of the challenges and opportunities of making your particular theater department more inclusive. Correct? Yes, yeah. Okay, so let's say you get the opportunity, you get a pipeline to the president of the university and you have the most no-brainer piece of inclusive strategy to go bring to that president. And to your chagrin and to your surprise, the university president is like, ah, wait a minute, I don't know about this. What I'm saying is usually the secret isn't to tell him that it's a no-brainer, he has to do it because that's just gonna freak him out even more. And what I'm saying is also that he needs to be made confident that the experiment can work. And I'm asking you if you agree with that assessment and if so, what would be one particular thing that you could see yourself changing on the campus of Sarah Lawrence? And if you don't agree with that idea, how else would you go about bringing change on Sarah Lawrence's campus? Well, so through my Ruderman Inclusion Ambassadorship, I aimed to, so the Ruderman Family Foundation is this large, you know, but I'm just saying for the other people, this is a large organization that works with colleges and through with the colleges, Hillel, which is the Jewish organization on campus, they have different ambassadors on campuses to create awareness of accessibility and disabilities. And so different people do different things.  And so my event was to work with the theater, theater, not company, theater program to create a sensory friendly show. And similar to what I did with Trinity. And so Sarah Lawrence College recently has this really new, great head of the director of the theater company, director of the theater program. And so when I was, you know, formulating my idea with my advisor that I get when I am a Ruderman inclusion ambassador, you know, I talked to the head of the theater company and he was, luckily for me, he was already right on board because he wants to create a more inclusive environment because I was also talking to him about regardless of me being on the spectrum. I think a lot of people had this problem of, you know, sometimes feeling like over the years, auditioning for things and not getting cast in shows. And I think sometimes that has to do with being on the spectrum. And I think sometimes it doesn't.  We would have about 1,600 people.  If the director isn't your friend, you ain't getting cast, you know? And I get that. Like if I, like if I was- I was my undergraduate. If I was directing a show, I would also be like, I'm casting my friends. Like, you know, you want to work with them, but also it's, you know, that first impression can be very hard for people on the spectrum because you got to make it and you got to do it. And it doesn't sometimes come across confidently or as great as you would like to in already everyone, you know, typical, not nervous in an audition setting. And so, but luckily for me, for my project, he was already on board and a lot of the teachers. So at my school, the teachers, they've heard rumors about sensory friendly and like, ooh, did, did, did. And it was the students who totally had like no clue what was going on. So I explained it to them and they watched me work with the, you know, director of the musical head over heels to make it sensory friendly and to add red warning lights. And so, I think it really helps if you have like, you know, so then the head of the director, the president of the college came to me during one of the dinners. So she said, she unfortunately wasn't able to come, but she said, I heard many great things because the dean of students came to my panel, et cetera. And so I think, you know, yeah, so if you have a couple of people that are high up on your team, then, you know, other people just like, how people like to follow people, they'll be like, oh, well, this seems, you know, I guess I'll also join along with them. So I was able to work with, you know, like the tech crew was all very on board because the director of the show was telling them they should do it. And so I think to try to answer your questions, I think it's a little bit better for Leon or Mark, but yeah, so you have to try to find allies in the departments and luckily these people were really interested in making theater more accessible and breaking it open a little bit more to the college campus is getting a little stuffy. Okay, great, that's thank you. If you don't mind, Ava, I would just like to give you one interpretation.  My undergrad was at Hampshire. So I certainly know what that school size is like. But I think there's a glass half full version of that, which is that especially if you can, you know, put on your director hat as opposed to your actor hat, you'll remember that it's not that you just wanna cast your friends, you wanna cast people that you trust and that you know- I've never been a director, but yes I have. Oh, okay, okay. But it is that thing where you wanna make sure that you're casting people that we'll listen to and adhere to your direction as opposed to be confrontational or what have you. So a little bit of that in there as well. Thank you, that was awesome. And I'm sorry if I was really wordy trying to get that question out initially. So Leon, I got a big one for you because you're kind of the big picture guy here. And yet at the same point, I think the people watching this would love to hear from you. It doesn't have to just be at Brown because I really mean that I don't want you to get fired. But if you could give us at least one, if not two, maybe even three concrete examples of where you could see the most well-intentioned theater department trying to be inclusive, going wrong. Hmm, going wrong. Well, you know, I don't know that I- While I'm thinking this through, I apologize. I just wanted to throw a present. While you're thinking this through, if others could think, I would love to see this panel's next step via gestation of where, if you can think of questions for each other. While Leon answers this, that would be wonderful. Yeah, I mean, I don't know that it's so much about going wrong.  I don't know. I mean, there's various ways we could take this, right? I mean, I think one of the conversations that people are very actively trying to think about in sort of theater education, theater pedagogy, how we have theater kind of happens in educational environments. But I think also this is a conversation that's happening in theaters more generally is how do we grapple with the question of who can tell whose stories and on what terms are certain experiences represented and who's included in the room, right? When those decisions get made. And I think it's not only about sort of the stories that are told at the narrative level, but it's also about the sort of formal level, right? So how those stories are told, not just what stories are told and who's imagined to be the audience for these stories or performances and also who's imagined to be the artists who are kind of creating them. And so I think that, you know, when we talk about where things go wrong, you know, I think this is not distinct to disability or to neurodiversity, but I think we might think about, you know, productions of plays that have kind of damaging or stereotypical or outdated representations of disability or autism or mental illness, you know, I think there's particular issues with representation that, you know, scholarship and disability studies has sort of taught us to think about, right? So when is disability or kind of used as a kind of metaphorical trope that's actually about sort of producing certain kinds of emotional responses from an audience that don't actually do anything to sort of further the material kind of conditions of disabled people in the real world? That's a conversation, you know, is disability used as a kind of fetishistic representation or is disability used to kind of only garner sympathy for a character in a way that feels manipulative or that feels kind of, you know, there's also this trope within the disability community of sort of like sympathy porn, right?  Inspiration porn, right, exactly. So I think that, you know, all of those kinds of, we could call them like pitfalls, right? Of representation, certainly I think is something that theater companies, theater departments are trying to be increasingly aware of. But yeah, I mean, I guess I would say that it's always just a question of who's involved in the process, who, you know, whose perspectives are valued and trying to make sure that if you are trying to represent a narrative or story or an experience, that people are in the room who can like speak to that in a way that, you know, kind of grounds the art that they're making in some actual kind of reality, right? So I guess that's like one answer. I don't know if that was concrete enough. It wasn't, but I think you're a big picture guy, so that's okay. I'm gonna stick with you though, because I do wanna ask a follow-up based on that, because one of the things that you, you know, you sort of steered us into, which we hadn't gone into before is, was autism within the greater context of wider disability. And, you know, do you think that there's something at play because we could include disability in the wider spectrum of diversity and inclusion, which includes race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, veteran status, culture? And when we look at disability within, you know, not to compare, you know, with the other elements of traditional diversity and inclusion, but if you have, you know, let's say at a company and employee resource group, which is basically just a support group for your African-American men, they're going to be all very, very unique and different individuals, but at the same point, there will be some semblance of I'm not comfortable talking to people that aren't African-American men at this company, and that's what justifies this employee resource group and makes it really worthwhile. However, you know, one of the things that I've certainly noticed is that when it comes to disabilities out of all those core aspects of DNI, that's when everybody just throws up their hands and just says, I can't understand it because we have such, you know, a wide range of, you know, you can break it down further with, you know, physical disabilities and non-apparent disabilities, and even from there, you've got an incredible range of things having to do with health issues, psychological issues, neurological issues, and it's really the intimidation factor that I think that we present that really makes us so hard to get the kind of social progress that others can get with less effort. Do you sort of find that as an element that you're seeing at least in theater? Yeah, I mean, I think I could think of a number of different ways to kind of come at that question. You know, one of which would just be, I think it's sometimes useful to think kind of maybe in a historical perspective, like how does the category of disability come to be, you know, understood as a particular kind of identity category, right? So I think we might think about, you know, the origins of like the disability rights movement, right, in the 60s and 70s that is really coming out of a kind of a critique of what comes to be called the kind of medical model, right, of disability. And so here's a moment where there becomes, it's not like the category of disability has always existed, right? I mean, there have been these discrete, you know, experiences that all of a sudden for particular reasons get kind of lumped together. And, you know, I think it would be remiss if I didn't say that I think the reason that that happens has to do with the emergence of industrial capitalism and the kind of imperative to work and to have a kind of relationship to labor. So disability is actually a category that gets invented in order to kind of define someone who's quote unquote not seen as able to work or be a kind of productive worker, right? And therefore to qualify perhaps for some kind of social welfare benefits that enable them to kind of survive without having to work. And so I think that, you know, if we understand disability as this kind of constructed category that does pull together so many multiplicities of experiences that are either, you know, there are people are born with them, people acquire them, right? Sometimes they get disabled on the job, for example. But I think, you know, one of the things that's really powerful about thinking about disability as an identity is that it's one that sort of forms through kind of shared experience of marginalization and what is being, what people are marginalized from is the kind of status of the fully productive kind of worker or labor, right? And so I think out of that actually comes a really kind of powerful critique of the kind of norm or that expectation that everyone needs in order to be kind of fully human, you need to be kind of fully autonomous worker or somebody who's able to kind of reproduce yourself through your labor and or sustain yourself through your labor. And I think that, you know, that's sometimes lost when we kind of just lump in disability as a kind of another category of difference in a kind of multicultural inclusion model, right?  It doesn't kind of work in that way. I think the comparative value is pretty useless. Yeah, so I think- I think the scheme of things, but I just wanted to sort of touch on the complexity. Leon, forgive me though, we've just got a few minutes left, we've just been told and I wanted to give everybody a chance if, you know, panelists, do you have a question for each other? Dave. So I think this was Ava who brought up doing, Ava or Leon, I'm so sorry, who brought up producing potentially problematic productions involving disability or autism. I'm wondering, hypothetically, if a theater or university decides to produce a problematic play about like disability and autism, how can we as autistic people and allies of the autism community engage with it in a productive and respectful manner that Ava hand went straight up? Yeah, so one thing that I think Clay once said when we were doing a play, a new play or something, if someone once said is, are we trying to do life as it is or life as we wish it to be? And, you know, so I think TV often tries to answer that question, right? Like, I don't know, a lot of people like to watch this show called like this is us, but I see it as life as it is and I don't wanna watch life as it is. I wanna watch either like a really worse life, post-apocalyptic or like really great.  And so you have to see, I think in my opinion, if it's like when they're written or purposefully, just to begin the conversation, like when is that play set? Let's see what it's trying to say, let's see how we can critique it, but what we can learn from it and possibly change if it's quote unquote, you know, shining people with disabilities in a bad light. And so I think we shouldn't just shut it down, but it creates more of a conversation and it maybe should make people feel uncomfortable. That's what some plays want to do and I think that's sometimes interesting if it does. David, that's excellent. Dave, that's an excellent question too. Thank you so much for doing it. I have to stop us cause we're just like one minute out. So I am so sorry, but we could have gone on and on as I think the audience is well clear and just thank the four of these panelists, please with your comments on Facebook because they're wonderful and hopefully you'll be able to, you know, get in contact with them outside of this particular conference. And with that, I will just turn it back over to Clay if he's around and is willing to take it, but just thank you. Thank you Clay for giving us all this opportunity. Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely, thank you guys so much. And yes, there's so much more to talk about. I would love to bring you guys back in sometime during the festival to have some more conversations. So thank you all so much again and thank you everyone for viewing. We're gonna take a quick break, but beforehand, if you've enjoyed these discussions and engaging with us, we are looking for support and lead up to our neurodiversity new play festival this summer. So some ways you can support us. The easiest way and what would really help is just to share these videos and to share the word about us with your community on your group pages, on your personal page. So that more people know about us. Other ways you can support us, we have a Facebook fundraiser for Autism Awareness Month on our Facebook page that you can donate to. You can also donate directly for the conference and you can go on to our website, www.stensemble.org and there's a easy way to donate through PayPal there. But thank you all again.


The innovation is paramount importance in this very moment for the human life. I'm here to collaborate with other leaders from other countries. We learn from each other and then we get inspired. What our innovation is really about is addressing needs for the bottom billion. And that's looking at technology in a very different way. We call it disruptive technologies.  I would definitely like people to be very aware of what the cutting edge of technology looks like, where it's leading, what it means. I want to talk to these famous entrepreneurs, or some later entrepreneurs, to learn from them. Businesses are disrupting and are being disrupted by new systems, processes and business models. My family name is the brand name. Together families and companies build a society, so there is definitely social responsibility of companies to try to influence the society in order to build a better world. Innovation is driven by data. Data is the thing that says, here's what's actually going on, versus here's what you thought was going on. There's so many opportunities right now coming out of this. I guess I want to kind of shake this idea into people. Increasingly people are going to work, discovering what they need to learn, and then going home at night and learning that. We've become polarized. Perhaps it's time to define our terms. Despite all of that, we have to be realistic. We basically have a really deep cultural problem, which is that we do not associate leadership with females. It's amazing to find how similar we are. From their body, learning, learning from them, I myself am a little older. I've seen many young entrepreneurs, from their body, from the heart, I hope to learn from them the spirit of innovation, the spirit of the community. I think the most important of any relationship is the dialogue. Even though we know that there are differences, but we can agree that there are differences, and we can agree to disagree as well. I think it's important to continue the dialogue, whatever happens to government-government relationship. I believe in equality of opportunity with regards to access to healthcare, and so that's what my life's work has been about. Last year I was able to sit down with another young global leader who has sustainability at British Telecom. A partnership came out of that where British Telecom is actually supporting one of our projects in Northern India. That's a very tangible result that came out of AMNC for me last year. We are not talking about a new age, we are talking about a new world. I'm generally really skeptical about panels and debates and presentations and whatnot, but I've actually been shocked to discover in the last year that it's actually really, it makes a huge difference. So here, by having social entrepreneurs, government and technology pioneers, this discussion will lead to innovation. You walk away from this with that excitement that people are coming together to really work on these problems. Brilliant minds, really experienced people are coming together to solve some of the world's most challenging problems.


Hello Aces, welcome back to module seven, lesson 4.1, creating a viral contest for your restaurant. In this lesson, you're gonna learn how to create a viral contest to explode in social media following. Now, why is that even more important? It is because the more followers that you have, that means more exposure. More exposure means more touch points. That means you get to touch your customers at different cycles of their customer journey. So if you do not understand what customers journey are, definitely go back to the previous modules to understand that. That is crucial for you to craft out the whole experience. Now that you're able to touch them at multiple touch points, that means you get more social proof. More people talking about you, more testimonials. That means you gain more credibility. And ultimately, what do you gain? You gain more trust. And what do I always say? Trust is the only reason why someone buys from you. And hence, you get more customers, okay? So that means more followers getting you more customers. You are able to convert them from just a person that stalks you on the phone to someone that actually comes and buys from you all the time. Now, Facebook and Instagram go with hack. And this is for those of you who are struggling to gain followers. Or for those of you who are just starting in this game, and that's the reason why we're gonna be covering the five steps in creating a viral contest. Now, how do you growth hack and gain 10 times the following? You run contests through social media. And as you can see right here, our contest has more than double, if not triple, our original post, right? As you can see here, more than double and triple. So imagine if you can stack these different contests over and over again. That's how you're gonna be able to explode your account with a lot more followers. And that's exactly what we did with our Instagram account, that we're able to grow that not overnight guys, but with time we're able to really explode that exponentially following what I'm about to share with you. Contests that you run on your platform to gain massive interest. So back to what running viral contest means on social media, the viral component comes when your contest is shared and spreads rapidly. That means that it is what people are wanting. Understanding your customers is key when you are setting up your viral contest because depending on your specific demographic, what goes, what is viral to them and what is worth sharing to them is very different from another demographic. I'll give you an example. If you're selling ice cream and you're telling people to share for a chance to win $10, that makes sense because as a high schooler I don't get much money and I don't get much allowance either. So if I get to share your product and automatically I get $10, that seems like a lot. That is a very different giveaway that we'll be doing for someone that winds and dines their other half or their family because people who have much higher disposable income would not see that $10 as something that is worthy for them to share. So just case in point, understanding who you serve to and really catering this whole contest to them is one of the key things you need to make sure you understand. The goal of these contests is for us to get massive exposure compared to traditional media forms such as running newspaper ads or radio ads and so on and so forth. This builds your own channel along the way and on top of that it also rewards your community which is the reason why we love running contests on social media and at the end of the day understand one thing, you're not just running contests as your sole strategy. You need to be able to stack them on top of each other as I was sharing with you in my other modules. So definitely make sure that you're not just running social media viral contests and these are some of the contests that we have ran before. These were when we were just starting off as you can see in 2018, 2019. As you can see, we started off with only 600 comments, 500 likes, but within a year's time, guys, we're able to see what? Three times the result of this and the comments and the likes and everything just blew off and exponentially increased as a result of us just running a few of these campaigns over the course of the year. Now, the five steps to create your very own viral contest. We're gonna cover the basic of how you're gonna be able to do that and then in the next lesson, we're gonna cover the advanced strategies.  Understand that you're running a contest whether it's for awareness or for revenue or for profit because the objective really shapes the contest and how it is being done and the rules of engagement and whether how it looks like because for example, if you were to run a contest to tag all your friends to win something, that is much more for awareness. That's for the viral factor. So you're not gonna have a lot more buys or sales within your restaurant. That is a very different contest that you're running than buy for a chance to win. Buying something to enter for a chance to win for something would increase your revenue and your profits but it does not have the same kind of awareness because not a lot of people will come in through the doors to buy something just for them for a chance to win. So understanding the objective is key when you're determining the whole contest. Next up, now that you understand, hey, I wanna increase awareness because my door's just open. I wanna make sure that this hits the ground running and people know about us which is the reason why you don't mind just running it for the sake of getting your word out there. Now it is time to decide the rules on the offer depending and actually aligning that to your objectives. It must be super easy guys. Understand for one thing, this must be in grade five level. Once again, I repeat, even a grade five should understand how this whole process works, okay? Because if you have too much friction, if it is too difficult to understand, people will not enter and it defeats the whole purpose of you running a viral contest. Full proof test is will you actually enter through the contest or do you like the item being gifted? If you don't like it, then why would you expect someone that you're giving it to would enjoy it, would like it? So definitely ask yourself and be super honest with yourself. Don't just create something for the sake of creating it. Offer should be relevant to your target audience. So if you were to give me a pair of Yeezys, right? Probably not the best choice because I don't wear Yeezys. I'm not that demographic but if you're appealing to high schoolers or the people that enjoy pop culture, then yes, those are the ones that pair of Yeezys would be a really, really great choice. Don't give away an iPhone when it doesn't make sense, when it's not relevant specifically to your customer demographic. You don't want to overshoot it. You don't wanna just give out money for the sake of money. And that's the reason why you need to choose something specifically for your demographic. Once again, it's like you buying a gift to your other half. You don't just buy random gifts. You buy something that is very personalized, something that is catered to your personal half. Same thing with creating a contest, right? Create something and buy something that is deemed as attractive for your demographic. For awareness, you wanna focus on the shareability of this whole campaign to gain maximum exposure. So for example, for the rules, you may wanna do something like tag a friend for an entry. It's unlimited. Share the contest for five bonus entries. And it is still working out like a charm in today's age. It is the most effective for your contest going viral if you're just going for awareness. Because tagging your friends, now your friends tag another five friends, it just goes down like a pyramid like that. If you are gaining and actually creating these contests for profit's sake, then pair it with an in-store purchase for a chance to win contest, right? For example, with our Nespresso campaign, you need to be able to come and purchase our signature item, which is this one, for a chance to win five entry to win the Nespresso machine. And this became a really, really good profit-generating campaign for us because people loved our product. And on top of that, we just gave them a reason to come and buy from us for their chance to win something that they enjoy as well. So that automatically just became a no-brainer for our customer, less friction. However, with this specific campaign and this specific rule, it is the least effective to go viral. Why is that the case? It is because it has highest amount of friction. People need to come in and purchase from you in order for them to actually enter to win. That's the reason why, depending on the objectives, the rules change and the effects would change as well. Next up is to decide on the duration of this whole campaign and the schedule. As you can see right here, we need to identify the start time end time. I would typically go for a one week to two week long campaign. Anything more than that, I would say that there's no scarcity. What the scarcity mean? It doesn't push people to take advantage. There's no deadline. And majority of the people out there are procrastinators. They don't take action until the very end, which is the reason why we need to give it enough time for people to hear it over and over again, at least twice. They need to at least see this offer out there. Now we give them a deadline and then they'll take action, which is the reason why I think typically one to two weeks of a launch period is a really good timeframe for people who have the intent and will be purchasing from you.  Schedule, think about your timeline, guys. We need to understand when can all the creatives be completed? And when do we actually launch our contest? So understanding when we're doing the announcement and making sure that we work backwards. For some of you that don't understand how to work backwards and how do you plan a proper campaign and launch it properly, go back to module 6.3 and you can learn how to work backwards. Definitely check it out because it is a very, very powerful way of crafting your own campaign. Next up, step number four is to make sure you always track your performance because what doesn't get tracked doesn't get measured and you won't get results, which is the reason why you need to understand what are the KPIs to show for because you need to understand whether your campaign is successful or not. What does KPI stands for? It stands for Key Performance Indicator and for those of you who don't know what this is, definitely go back to module 6.3. That's where we covered this in detail of how you can set your KPIs. For example, some of the KPIs would be number of likes, number of shares, tags, comments, or even number of new customers purchasing your item or the profit generated throughout the period of your contest. Once again, if you don't know how to set up your proper KPIs and OKRs, definitely check out module 6.4. That's where we cover it in detail and use this to track your own campaign. This is just to showcase to you how many people put our hashtag and also how many people liked it, how many people viewed it. This became our Key Performance Indicator to see how successful our campaign is. Step number five, now it is time to rinse and repeat. These campaigns are not meant to be done once and done with. You need to continually do it all the time.  If you don't keep doing these different campaigns, then you're not gonna become relevant in your customer's mind. And if they forget about you, they just won't buy from you.  So in a year, you'd be doing minimum of four different campaigns. You should always, always wrap up a report to showcase the performance so then that way you can improve for the next time. Always ask yourself, what have you done well? You need to celebrate the little wins and then you need to ask yourself what needs improvement. So for example, with our Nespresso campaign, what we've done really well on are the different, our flavor, our new product was really, really good. People, everyone loved it and on top of that the photo shoot was amazing. Working with the Nespresso team was really good as well. What needs improvement? I would say to actually do more marketing. I feel like that with the items that we were able to have and the assets that we have and giving away to Nespresso machines, I think that if we were to reach more influencers and reach more media outlets, the response would be exponentially as much and as effective. What will we do better next time? I think it's just to make sure that we invest more in our campaign. So by us identifying these components, now we know what to improve on, let's say three months from today or four months from today. Include the KPIs that you set out from the very beginning and see how you did because once again, if you don't put a goal, you'll never attain it.  Now it is your turn to create your own viral contest. Come up with an idea, look for inspiration with what other people are doing or worse comes to worse. If you don't know who to look for, go on our Instagram to check out what we have been doing, either 720 Sweets or Wilson Kay Lee. You're gonna see that I continuously run different campaigns. So then that way you can learn from that. In the link below, you can download the worksheet and follow along to create your very own viral contest. So in this lesson, you've just learned how to create your own viral contest with five simple steps. In the next lesson, what we're gonna cover are the four advanced strategies that you can use to really amplify the results for your campaigns. I'll see you guys in the next lesson.


We're kind of coming down the final stretch of the season. We're seeing some pretty important significant storylines developing, so I thought that we could take a second to talk about a few of the things that I'm sort of taking away now that all of week 14 has a bow and a farewell postcard attached to it. And I want to start in the NFC with the Cowboys because when on that game against the Texans is important. It took everything Dallas had to come up with the 27 to 23 win, okay? And here's what you're looking at. This is a goal line stand like no other. This is something that gave the offense a pulse, a chance, some probability on an abacus. And listen, Dak and Co responded. What did they do? They marched right downfield on a 98-yard game-winning drive. Both sides of the ball stepped up with the game on the line and both deserve a ton of credit for that. We're all like living in this Odell, Jerry Jones, Cute Matt, we have to pay attention with the fact. What's reality, what's happening in the fact is that they came down to a dramatic finish against, you know, a one-win team using two different quarterbacks and playing with other top two receivers. That is a bit concerning. There's like a little bit of a, hmm, and there's always a little bit of a, oh boy, when it comes to Mike McCarthy, McCarthy. And he was asked about it after the game. Here's what he said. You know, this is football. This is, you know, I'm not trying to make excuses.  But it's about winning. And we got it done today. You got it done in the alley. You're not wrong. So I can't poke holes in your logic. It's true. And in the process of picking up said win, became the first Cobbless coach in Sperry Switzer back in 95 to lead Dallas to double-digit wins and back-to-back seasons. That's all cute, that's great. That's a nice little tweet that flew out. I actually don't even know why I'm saying that. But listen, it's none of that matters. Sunday's game is the perfect example of what everyone's hesitant to sort of wrap their arms. I certainly am. I'll be the first to say it. And if they do it, I'll be happy for them. Sure, I'm happy to see them go all the way in the NFC. But I can't get there yet. There's not enough proof. Would O'Dell tip the scale in their favor? It didn't, listen, when he went to the Rams and he was really great, I still didn't think the Rams were going to win the Super Bowl.  There are major trust issues. And you can try to make it work. And you can try to like see couples' therapy and do all of that. It's like, these are foundational issues that have been extended my entire life period with this franchise. And so many of you watching out there, it's hard. And that is the weight that is on the chest of Mike McCarthy. Whether he's on the sideline throwing a clipboard or whether he's showing up looking like Vince Lombardi and everybody's dragging him for it at Lambeau. The more I watch this team and I watch both C.D. and Michael Gallup completely silent on Sunday, the more I watch, the more I'm convinced that they need to get OPJ if they're going to contend. And yes, I know they signed my guy, T.Y. Hilton. I love him, a great veteran. And I do understand the outlined prominent concerns about Odell's health right now. But let's say that it's true, right? And they say that he won't be ready until the playoffs. OK, sometimes you just have to take a swing. OK, Odell's proven time and time again. He's a bit of a difference maker and a different animal out there. And it's clear Dallas has not completely filled the void created by the Amari Cooper trade. Nobody wants to talk about that. Adding Odell makes sense. It's a swing. I don't know if it tips everything and I all of a sudden trust them and think they're taking out the Eagles or anything like that.  Jerry, I love you. It's time. Do what you're born to do, circumcise the mosquito, and take the swing. All right, now next. I want to hear from Steve Wilkes. The Panthers had a big win over Seattle. Take a listen. Everything that we've gone through, they've gone through with the different coaching changes, getting rid of players or the organization trying to tank it, all those different things. And to see how those guys respond and came out and played today, it is pretty thrilling and emotional. Yes. It's also really fun. There's lots of unpack here. And we start with the NFC South situation. Why is no one talking about the Panthers? Wilkes is their interim head coach. The Panthers somehow under his stewardship have climbed to within a game of the Bucks for the division lead. What? We have Mark Ingram always talking about the Bucks. We get about the Panthers with Mark Ingram. That's the team to beat. And they beat Pittsburgh this weekend, then Tampa Falls to the Bengals. This is what would happen. Carolina would move into chup first place. What a climb for a team that fired its head coach early in the season. A team that's pretty much become the NFL's redemption island, let's be honest. First, you have Wilkes, who in my opinion, everyone's opinion, it happened live on my show. We talked about it. Raw deal in his first NFL head coaching gig. Fired one and done season in Arizona back in 2018. Enter, wonder, Kate, Cliff Kingsbury. Let's talk about how that's going. Looked to the highlights to last night to tell you. A year ago, Wilkes was the defensive coordinator at Mizzou. I'm from Mizzou. I literally just cracked my back doing that. Anybody hear that? Conrad's saying I'm not getting out of push-ups. But I just think I'm plain hurt today. It looks like Wilkes would not, you know, you get the coaching gig, the head guy in charge. And then once you lose it, am I ever getting back? Am I ever getting close to being back? A lot of guys never sniff a head coaching gig again. I could point to all of them. But now, Wilkes might be coaching his way into a full-time gig, whether it's in Carolina or some other team that's like, hey, they're climbing. They're playing well. They might be the lead in the division, a division that has Tom Brady. What? And then there's Sam Darnold. Sammy, following a pre-season injury, Baker-Maple to experiment, PJ Walker experienced. He finally gets a chance to start again in week 12. And he's 2-0, OK? He's 2-0 as a starter. And you love to see it. Three touchdowns, by the way. How many interceptions? Oh, 0 in those two starts. Amazing. How about the running back room, this team up? Traded away their superstar on Christian McCat. I literally just hurt my entire neck on that. I really did. Doing this, aging is the dumbest. Anybody out there that cannot age, like, don't ever do it.  Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Christian McCappery, still young, often injured. He's been amazing. And we got to take a look at what these guys did in his stead instead, because take a look at this. Since the trade, Deontay Forman, sleeper du jour on our show often, he's fifth in the NFL in rushing, averaging over 85 yards a game on the ground, pretty incredible for a guy who was thought to be toast after an Achilles injury back in 2019. And there's also the Ben Macadoo of it all, by the way. There's too much to unpack here. The former Giants coach, finding a way to make this offense work, and I got to give credit to the defense. Oh, I am like the clickbait of young feisty, Jeremy Chin, everybody, they look so great, and the talent is there, but they're finally playing up to the super high ceiling of their talent and potential. So if the Panthers can make this happen, they get to win, the Bucks lose, they switch a play. This could be probably one of the coolest underdog stories and one of the underdog stories that absolutely no one is talking about, and I don't know why. So that's what we do here on the Up and Atom show. I'm just going to get some ice. Conrad, I don't want to do push-ups. Here's the problem with the push-ups. Can you voice of God me really quick? Conrad, can you be the voice of God or no? No. There's not enough of an incentive for me to do push-up. If you were to say, here's a million dollars, I could probably do five push-ups. But if it's just for the show, I could probably do one. Conrad, Marissa's saying two. I thought you had a voice of God thing back there. Is that broken? What do you do back there, Conrad? You know what? You get your mind right, Kay. Get your mind right. Stop making excuses over here. Get your mind right. Do it for the show. I came in today. I came in today, and they have a yoga mat here in front of me, and I go, oh, yeah, today. I was out kind of late. I have a creek in my neck. Got a nice little, what's that, a shacket? Yeah, it's a shacket. It's a shacket that should have a shirt on. Look at this, look what they brought over here. I like it. Did you do your push-ups? Sorry, Siri, nobody's talking to you. Today was a leg day. No push-ups today. Leg day. Got the legs in. Got in here early. Now, leg day. Leg day, I can do this. Nice walk-in. Oh, we got a mall walk-in? Yeah, but do you know what? You got to stop complaining though. I heard a neck. I heard a shoulder. I heard a back in the last five minutes. Okay, well, I'm so, thanks for popping Darius on, guys. That was lovely. I'll talk to you in a little bit, Butler. We have another thing to talk about, the Titans, right? Feel a good story on the verge of turning into an absolute night. Take a look at this. They get blown up by the Jags at home, right? The Titans have now lost three straight, fired their GM. Their AFC South's lead has dwindled down to a measly two games. Jacksonville gaining ground quickly while Tennessee, man, what's going on in Tennessee? They seem to be getting further and further away from the team that they were earlier in the year. And I do not know what the answer is. This team is obviously, listen, I'm very compassionate and empathetic about injuries as I'm dealing with fun and that's what they have there, riddled with injuries, rables and a really good job of getting them to this point, despite all of that. But I'm starting to wonder if this year is kind of time to, what do they say, mail the car home, like ship the car home, start planning the vacation because I don't know if it's happening, the Titans rank in the bottom 10 in total offense and total defense. And I'm really saying this because at this point, you know what teams are good, you know what defenses are tough and the schedule doesn't get easier. The Chargers in LA, we're going to be at that point we're going to be at that game. Our whole show is going to that game. Woo, the Texans, the Cowboys. And then a week 18 meeting with the Jags that could end up being for the division title, which is woofer effect. Things are at their bleakest right now, but if there's one coach that we hear about constantly, who I believe in and who I have faith in, that's going to make it work, it is Mike Vrabel and we've seen him navigate unique challenges every single year and he's gotten, I mean he could win a football game in Pandora of Avatar. Guys, I'm telling you, I saw Avatar last night. I think it's the 3D glasses threw off. I wouldn't wear the 3D glasses at this thing because my makeup was so pretty and I don't think anybody considers when you have to put on glasses like what that would do to your entire, what if I wanted to go to the after party? So there is that. And then they have these caps. I like made a stand of not wearing the 3D glasses and then of course there's captions, subtitles and you can't read them without. It's like such an incredible, beautiful experience. Everyone should go, but you can't read it. So then you're like trying to see what it says so you can understand since I don't speak Pandorn. But lovely movie and everyone should see it. All right, we gotta go. Um, Vrabel, what are you going to do with Tennessee? Let's go. Buckle up. Push ups next.


and it's shaking the camera like that that's attached to this like the camera because of the shake so much. This is what happened to the last one. I was cleaning up the area I was picking up this paper and didn't know that somebody left the gold lid off and when I tore the paper off the little canister fell off this table onto the table with this and it just all over it but it still looks kind of cool I think I'm gonna do some graffiti on here make it a fun piece but I think it's crazy how it's still laced like if you could see that it's pretty cool so I'm gonna do this one again but I'm gonna use spray paint this is this he's this one we're that's what we're gonna use right now countertop epoxy see how that goes but on this one I'm using flat white not a fan of this paint to paint with so we're gonna try to see what it looks like in resin it's sugar graffiti paint dark teal a little bit lighter teal and be fun and then some rostoleum satin apple red and instead of gold we're gonna try this mirror effect fun it actually works the stuff actually works we we put it on a piece of glass and it actually made a mirror effect on it you have to use the whole thing I barely have any left also this is a great example of when I mess up it looks like this why do they say pour the hardener first it just does it doesn't make sense why what does it matter just follow the instructions and you know what this is kind of cold what you want to do so I tried to do something and I can't remember what it was it was a long time ago but I used Resi blast in it this is not a good example of what Resi blast does this is an example of me making a mess but there are pits in it because Resi blast tends to do that when you have pits you need to sand it down and then get give it a good coating of alcohol damn it how do we fix that scrape it into here this canvas is just jinx the devil's work just scrape it off and then we'll wipe it down with alcohol use the yeah you can use that one no use this one I've never done that I know this and I'm kind of glad that it wasn't warmed up because it probably would have all came out yep no bueno but alcohol cures everything resin this happy this happy I need to scry over scry cry over spilt resin right sorry for the movement we have that attached to the table and this table shakes holding it it's on wheels magic separate stand new table see this this is a Resi blast dimple move yourself right there you can see it yeah there's a bum bum bum but we sanded it down and work put something we sanded it down and put a whole bunch of alcohol on it and that just put more alcohol on it reuse you can get it from anywhere but 91% man do you want to put those in warm water we probably should look at that so thick yeah yeah so you guys I've been watching we've been doing more and more countertops just did that bar let us know what you think if you have any comments or you know leave them in the below all that fun stuff and if you want to see how we do it just click straight there don't don't don't and we'll show you put this in some warm water just for a minute just for a minute warm these guys up pull the bar also we need to think about what we're gonna unless around and when you think about how we're gonna do our challenge poor as well for our Facebook group yeah I want to do that the challenge poor the colors are amazing this this I don't know if you guys are on Facebook and if you like to participate in like challenges and stuff but we are part of this Facebook group fluid art community with Susanna thanks donks I'm not sure I'm so horrible with you know all the things e-science and so but she is an amazing artist as well she's got a YouTube channel you should totally check her out you probably have already seen her videos but she's brilliant she does tests and all that sort of fun stuff just like we do look at that I can't I mean it's like you would think that it was setting up or something that how it's been that's it's a little better yeah it's getting thinner that's the thing with this new resin is just and that is like super thick I don't even know if that that's helping it it seems like it's helping it in this that's way thinner this is a different story just let it sit there for a minute don't be impatient show them the other ones that we the other 10 by 10 while we're waiting they've already seen them I'm pretty sure they've seen them what we have a how-to on this one as well you can don't drink don't drink right there see how we did this one I love doing the gold marble so much fun super classy this this was really one of the first times that we had a problem with we didn't prep this yeah we didn't prep it so you could see that it kind of went towards the center so all this is raw on the sides but it still gives it so much emotion I mean I don't mind it it looks really good we still got to put another coat over it but if you want to see how to prep a canvas so it doesn't do this don't think don't think there you go and make sure you guys go and vote for your favorite one we decided to adjust it a little bit we were gonna do whoever has them like whichever one of these has the most votes that's when we're gonna give away but now it's whichever one you voted for with your entry this is the one we're gonna give away so if you really like this one we're gonna stick you with this one and vice versa yeah so if you haven't voted yet yeah go vote right well the hardener is so the hardener thinned out and the resin did do you match also shout outs to all of our new viewers all of our subscribers thank you you all so much for all the wonderful comments all the everythings that you guys leave us beautiful words to wake up to in the morning we try to answer every one of them as soon as you leave a comment but you know when you have your hands in resin sometimes it takes a minute we can't promise when we hit the hundred thousand you know I promise answer all of them we will when we get our silver button or bronze I don't know I want the silver button so what's our plan for this one is it gonna be a puddle I don't I don't don't just every time you do that it messes with my head and my ADD kicks in and sounds like a plan you're spilling let's play right here it'll be amazing oh I need to show the people how big red turned out where's my trash can my trash can so we have no idea how this is gonna turn out because we haven't used spray paint with this resin all right while you're doing that and shaking the table I'm gonna show them big red so see over here turned out pretty awesome we weren't sure if it was gonna survive the breakdown but it did all the sparkle that's in it is not glitter it's from the jacquard pigment paste and I'm 92% sure that that's where all the lacing came from as well yeah he science it still looks like a rose to me but I can see how Jeff would not want it to look like a rose since guy stuff etc and it's for a male client of ours move up being precious and the way ahead also the pot life in this is not amazing you got to get it out as soon as you can or that was just a product of you think what do you want me to spray all the colors in there's the cups right there you shake these yet I like to put this all over the clear or whatever color the base normally is just to let the red so the resin just spreads a little easier and it starts to sell out before or not sell out before but it just starts working smoother a little bit yeah this works so far so good this is the white rustilium something flat white primer focus focus not gonna focus what is that oh this is the dark one this is the light one what do you want me to ask this dark one colors using right now is by sugar it's full throttle sorry yep next color is terrible giggles by sugar do you want a different color and that is just tell me I'll go pull like a transparent teal but you barely need any like cheese spray paint definitely works better than acrylic paint in this they're right that where you think that is some red apple red and satin by rustilium that's over look I'm barely gonna pour like a dot in there it doesn't do anything to this unless it's just not mixing look at that do you want more alright you guys check this out this is the mirror super fun oh yeah it's starting to warm is that my no is that something yeah I'm gonna pull this out oh really when you picked up a cup from over there you're gonna have to mix it in more that's just spray paint oh that's just raw spray paint put a different color man this should be interesting that looks crazy the acrylic paint is what really messes with the pot life of something this brand of resin so as long as you're using a thinner paint like a spray paint and ink or probably even a pigment powder if you just use a little bit it's fine also this is the silver that's in it is the rustilium mirror effect I wouldn't torch that for too long because it's raw so we've gone over what fire does but if you're new fire pops the bubbles that gets mixed into your resin when you're adding part a to part B I'm kind of excited to see it too I'm gonna take these business cards before they get resin really digging that dark and that silver we're gonna move all this stuff bring you guys out for this oh god look at that silver is it red thick bananas look at that wow look how gnarly that is why does it look wavy like that it in the recording it looks like you could touch it I brought you a straw and here it is this gradation between the blue and the silver to roll off looks awesome how crazy that looks like this wavy that's silver and that teal it's creating like weird freckles and it's not like like it's still level but it looks textured almost this lacing is crazy it's starting to lace use them to pull the pins out of a piece that's a there is a white one now you haven't done this method in a hot hot minute this makes me want to stake for some reason are you guys technically you should wear a respirator when you think Mike is because it's not the best for your innards I know looks like a fairy farted in here no all right laugh at my own joke adding this dust to the top just gives it an extra sheen since none of the colors really were metallic and you know we like our sparkle other than the mirror it just adds an extra layer of sparkle over top of it gives a little bit and I think what's selling I think that's the why it's not that's what I wanted to do this and then I wanted on camera it almost looks like America it's like all red wine blue yeah it reminds me of a melted bomb pop can't we call this one bomb pop that would be great okay you guys call it Americana Americana bomb pop summertime Americana look at those cells I know it it's grabbing the pigment powder that we just put on it and because of surface tension and other science terms it's pulling it and to sell so it's like sparkle with a clear under under tone under you're trying to help surface tension I mean you can make them bigger watch this is a great piece be you do good job if you want to mess with the cell do it on this side good work be I'm a fan can't wait to see how this one sets anyway since our computer is doing the most with the countertop video I'm just gonna upload directly from the phone are you taking under there you're gonna take it to our super secure yeah the dust free zone the Thunderdome in the basement instead of dust free zone it's called a dusty zone haha dumb anyways it's under there this for the evening anyways thank you all for watching for liking subscribing etc if you have any questions comments anything post below thank you for all the donations and the love from all you fine fine people it keeps our dream alive to work and live off of our work messy why are you showing me because it's in our studio it's personally messy what we do here mess anyways see all me on a cut


I think Japan is in the future, literally one hour in the future from Taiwan, and I think my mind has pinned Japan in a very futuristic place, where all the emerging technologies first get its application, not only in the industry like 4.0 but also society 5.0. I think in Taiwan we have 20 national languages. We are a transcultural republic of citizens, so for democracy we see it as a technology that anyone can change, and also because we have 20 or more different coaches, we have to work in a very transcultural fashion instead of just one model of democracy. If IT connects machines to machines, digital connects people to people. In the days of radio and television, one person or two can speak to millions of people, but there's no way to listen to millions of people through radio and television. Internet with its digital technologies enable us not only listening to millions of people, but also millions of people to listen to one another, and that deepens democracy. The reason why you have a new type of democracy is because the way people communicate to people are changing. Nowadays, if we only upload three bits of information every four years per person, that's called voting by the way, it is considered too small a bandwidth to determine the common policies. Nowadays everyone with this kind of video conference is already exchanging megabytes or even gigabytes of information literally every day, and so democracy need to also increase its bandwidth, otherwise people will feel that democracy is actually very irrelevant. The limit of the current form of democracy is because it was designed in a time when the most efficient way to get information from the people is through paper ballots, through voting, and through calls with telephones and so on, and each of these technologies of course are great, but none of them enables listening at scale. Definitely in Taiwan, we're making the distinction between media literacy, which is just about viewing and reading media, and media competence, which is everyone have the capacity to produce media and produce journalism. So while you're filming this conversation, we are also filming it in our own studio, our own YouTube channel and so on. So in a sense, we are also media producers and each of our citizens are too. In Taiwan, we also have a referendum, but our referendum are binding for two years, and we held a referendum every two years. So we have one year of election, the next year will be a referendum, the next year will be election, the next year will be referendum, and each referendum is free to reopen the discussion that was settled two years ago by the previous referendum. So that enables, for example, to have the referendum that led to the marriage equality of the same-sex people wedding as individuals, but their families do not wed. That was the consensus of the previous referendum, but two years down the line when people have already some experience in it, they are free to reopen the issue in an ongoing referendum. I don't understand the question, what is the speed that's flowing? No, I do not think so. I think, of course, it takes time for the society to come, to come on values given different positions. It's natural that the process takes time. On the other hand, it's easy to get to a place where each of you have rough consensus, which is more like consent. So for each and every emerging issue, we can divide it into the more polarized part, which takes more time, and the part where everybody have consensus, which we can, of course, turn it into regulation laws much more quickly. I think the aged people are the ones with the most wisdom, and we need to bring technology to them rather than asking them to adapt to technology. So in Taiwan, when we're rationing out a mask, for example, it's the 6,000 or more pharmacies that already have the trust from their local neighborhoods, and we design the process to be essentially the same as renewing the prescription of a chronic illness, which is what most elderly people or their friends have some familiarity with. So if you design it with an idea of participatory design, then there is no digital gap. In fact, we would empower first the people closest to the pain and then move on to the apps and so on. In ancient times, if you have an idea, you can share it with people only when you can meet them face to face. Nowadays, of course, ideas spread much faster, and ideas travel on outrage that spreads even faster than ideas based on evidence and science. So of course, it is a concern. However, outrage is not all bad. It's only bad if you turn outrage into revenge or into discrimination. If you turn outrage into a spirit of co-creation, then that leads the society forward. So the question is not to ask, how do we limit the outrage? The question is to ask, how can we invite people who are outraged to feel the joy of co-creation? Well, on the digital space, we do not have to observe physical distancing. So while it is true that the pandemic has temporarily isolated us from our friends and family through the internet, you and I are having this conversation that is actually very close and very familiar to both of us. So it's the speed of light that connects people all around the world during the pandemic that people truly feel that we are a common community working on the common goals. This is the first time that the entire world have felt like this. And in the post-corona world, it will enable us to tackle even more global scale issues such as the disinformation crisis you just mentioned or about the climate. Definitely. Previously, when we set up diplomacy, it's usually between a diplomat for a country and a diplomat for another country representing their people. But nowadays, through the internet, people can work together immediately without going through diplomatic channels first. So a lot of people in Taiwan, the GovZero movement have worked together with the Code for Japan people on the stop COVID dashboard first in the Tokyo metropolitan area but also in many other cities now in Japan. And so the contribution including the simple spell check I did, I also contributed. We made it through this open innovation platform called GitHub that enable people to people ties deepen without having to worry about whether the diplomats approve of it or not. They can approve of it afterward. I think it will bring a stronger sense of co-presence that is to say, you can feel that I'm nodding when you're asking the question. You can feel that my gestures in real time responding to you. And so with extended reality technologies, then we will not only be two dimensional but actually situated in a common room. So I use XR space, which is a 5G enabled VR headset all the time and that enable people who are very far away still feel that they are in the same virtual room and that will enable even more solidarity and communication around the globe. It's going to change in two ways. First, it will going to be more empathetic. When I have the first VR interview four years ago with people who are in the middle school and primary school, I set my avatar to be the same height as they are. So we can meet eye to eye in their familiar places without them having to look up to me. So I literally put myself in their shoes. The second thing is that this kind of space is not limited only to the rooms to rooms connection. Currently, both of us are in our studio because we need this fiber optic connection. But with 5G technology or a next interview, each of us could be in the mountains or around the seashores and so on and bring with us not only in the same room but also in the same outdoor space. Well, what I think is that it will enable more intersectionality. Meaning that people who previously feel that they are in the minority can go online and find the people who support them who have similar experiences like I personally went through two puberty that enable me to empathize with more people and also through the spirit of intersectionality, people who are majority in other places may nevertheless think of their own experience in the minority being supported and support the causes of the minorities in their advantaged or privileged parts of life. I'm already listening to your questions in a digital way, not a analog way. And you're seeing me as the digital minister, not the analog digital minister. So it's not a question of how far in the future we are living that future now. I think there's two ways I can answer this question. The first one is that of course because the digital can be replicated freely, this enables a kind of immortality because once you have published your life, parts of your life to the commons, then in a sense your life will live on. The second part of answer is that however, because in the commons it enabled other people to remix, to reinterpret and so on. In a sense, this is not your life that is immortal. It is just your life as the creative material for the future generations to use.  Of course, it is connected. It's just more bandwidth. The kind of understanding that people have when they carved those bas-relief into stones or invented writing on bamboo and later on on paper, those are of course already the civilization's building materials. The main difference now, as I said, is that not only can we upload a few bytes or bits of information once in a while, but actually through this kind of digital technology we can just keep on having a digital twin in the digital world that captures far more information than previous generations of technologies could. But in a sense, if you carve those Yi Qing symbols and so on, those were already digital. Binary to be precise. In Taiwan, because we are caught between the Eurasian plate on one side and the Philippine sea plate on the other, they bump into each other all the time. We have a lot of earthquakes. Because of that, our buildings are designed to be resilient like boats that can survive the kind of earthquake that we go through. But our ideascape, too, are resilient. We're caught between, for example, authoritarian intelligence on one side and surveillance capitalism on the other and how to resist falling into either direction but can instead, like the top of Taiwan, the Yushan mountain, grows two and a half centimeters every year because of the earthquakes. That's upwind, not left-wing and not right-wing. And that's Taiwan's future. I don't think that's the case. I think nowadays, if you think people are only watching, then you are using the media literacy frame. But in Taiwan, starting last year in our K-12 curriculum, we don't use that term anymore. We say media competence. So I think it's entirely because of the framing. If you frame people as consumers of media, then you will ask the question that you just asked. But because I think people, as people with agency, have the capability to produce media, produce narratives and so on, I care more about what the stories they tell instead of what stories they watch. Do I look like I run Twitter? You asked me what do I think about Twitter's retweeting limitations.  Because whatever policies they have in place and they are explaining the policies, but I do not work in Twitter. For the record, I don't know any friends at this moment that works in Twitter. So I can't explain why do they come up with those limitations to you. Which movement do you mean that people in... I don't think there is a movement. I think that's a configuration policy like Twitter, the platform. I don't think it's a popular movement if we use the term movement. But of course, maybe I understand your question is wrong. I think what the SNS must do is to show that they are pro-social and not just antisocial. Just like any community space, if they enable only antisocial behavior, then it will become a net negative to the society. However, if they can show to the society that people who step into the place are more pro-social than before they step into the place, then maybe they can show the society that they have a positive contribution to the society. I'm not only talking about corporate social responsibility. I'm talking about the mission and the market need to match instead of just chasing the market returns and ignoring the social externalities. I think social networks need to make this pro-social value part of their mission and also work with the market so that these two bottom lines work together. Yeah, just one piece of advice. In the past four years, we have been running the DigiPlus Plan, which is about digitalization, which is not just digitization. Digitization is important. It's the infrastructure. But the Digi has four letters, and digitization is just the first. It also includes, for example, the innovation pillar, the governance pillar, and the inclusion pillar. So if we think of digitalization as just digitization, then we risk leaving behind the people who ought to be included. That's the inclusion. If we think it's just a government meta, then we risk excluding the innovators that come up with better ways or at least newer ways of social organization. That's the innovation pillar. And in the governance pillar, many people think if we adopt this multi-stakeholder co-governance model, then each sector can do more without over-concentrating the power to, for example, the surveillance capitalists or to the authoritarian intelligence agencies. These would be the pitfalls of digitization leading to over-centralization. I think the most important idea is intergenerational solidarity. In our online participation platform, join the GOV.tw.  And I think that's not a coincidence. They both have more time on their hands, of course, but also both of them care more about sustainability across generations. So to build meaningful connections with the very young and the very old, that is the most important part. Democracy is a technology. So like any technology, you can introduce new innovations for example, you said voting, as if it's just about voting on people. But you can also vote on budget, that's called participatory budgeting. You can also vote on the priorities of the SDGs, as in the Taiwanese presidential hackathon. You can also vote on the sandbox applications that each city or rural area want to introduce. And that's called sandboxes and so on. So if you include democratic elements into each of your like place-making activities and so on, then people practice day-to-day democracy. If people think democracy only as something that happens every two or four years, then of course people will gradually lose interest. No, what I'm saying is that we need to make it festive and also make it a daily norm. So a daily norm is not increasing its speed. We're not saying that, hey, let's hold a general election every 24 hours, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that look into the everyday practices that you're already doing and introduce more democratic elements to it, such as quadratic voting for example, is what we used to determine which SDGs are of more synergy and priority in our annual presidential hackathon. I think if you ask for decisions, then of course people who have previously been excluded from the conversation will feel even more excluded when a decision about them is done without them. But instead of decisions, you can start by asking what are some common thoughts, some common feelings, some common personal experiences, some common evidences. And if you start like in design thinking terms with only the discovery part in order to define a common value without worrying so much about the development and the delivery of the final decision, the first diamond of the double diamond model I think is much more ripe to a feeling of solidarity for the society to discover that despite our different positions and ideologies, we actually all of us share some common values, such as inclusion and sustainability we just mentioned. Well, just trust the citizens. If the government trusts the citizens, then citizens become trustworthy. It's called the Pygmalion effect. And if the government are afraid of citizens and set up wars to distance themselves from citizens, then of course citizens become not trusting, not only of the government but also of each other. And so either side is a self-fulfilling prophecy. One side leads to deepening of democratization and the other side leads to higher wars like totalitarianism or maybe totalitarianism. Last I checked, it is not possible for me to hold this dual citizenship and serve in two cabinets. Each side requires the single citizenry. So currently legally it's not possible but I am happy to share and work closely with your upcoming digitalization agency. Of course, but how long, like how many minutes, seconds, microseconds it would you like me to read for? Just a couple of lines. Okay, sure. Okay, okay. To give no trust is to get no trust. When the work is done right, with no fuss, with no boasting, citizens will say, oh, we did it. Yeah, yep, yes. It's from Lao Zi, from Dao De Jing, the 17th chapter, the second half of the 17th chapter of Dao De Jing. It's a Daoist scripture. Arigatou gozaimasu. Thank you. Live long and prosper. Bye.