And welcome to the panel on Latin America's energy transition. I'm Caroline Stauffer. I'm the South Latin America Bureau Chief for Reuters News, based here in Buenos Aires. So energy poses some challenges for Latin America, with growing demand, climate change, a need for new technology and infrastructure. But the region also has many advantages, namely abundant natural resources that when used effectively could spur sustainable growth. Luckily, we have an all-star panel here with us today to address these issues. Allow me to introduce some. To my right, we have Mr. Alejandro Bugaroni, who's the Chairman of Brides Corporation. To my left, we have Argentina's Minister of Energy and Mining, Juan Jose Aranguren. He's followed by Luca D'Agnese, who's the Latin America head of Italy's INEM. And finally, we have Mauricio Adagio, President of Royal DSM in Latin America, and based in Brazil. And we'll have the Brazilian Energy Minister joining us momentarily. Before we get deeply into specifics, I'd like to ask each of the panelists to briefly try to answer the main question of the day. That is, how can a new mix between hydrocarbons and renewables bring about regional development? And specifically, what is needed from both the public sector and the private sector? Mr. Bugaroni, would you like to? Okay, well, thank you very much. And thank you to the World Economic Forum to be in Argentina. It's very important for us that these kind of events take place here in the country. I think it will help the new insertion of Argentina going back to the world. Like you said, Argentina has a lot of different energy and different resources that can be found all over the country. And in some places, with the high magnitude, we have hydroelectricity. We have good projects and good production of hydroelectricity. Of course, we're not like Brazil, but we're very... And we have some more projects coming for the future, so hydroelectricity will be an important part of our energy equation. Of course, we have a lot of gas, a lot of resources. I hope very soon we'll become reserves in production. We are working on that. And the energy equation of Argentina has a lot of natural gas as component. So I believe that this will continue for the future. Even could be increased the participation. The government today is working very hard in increasing the amount of wind power and solar power. I think this is a very positive move and Argentina has a lot of opportunities into those renewable energy sources. To be able to produce long-term gas from the shales and to be able to produce energy from wind power and from solar power, we need long-term agreements, long-term regulations, and regulations that will stay for a long term. I believe the government has done so. We are trying to put together a set of regulations and policies that will allow this to happen. From my point of view, I see the energy equation will not change too much. Of course, we'll have more participation of electricity from wind power and from solar, but I see the equation with the fossil fuels and mainly gas very strong for a long period of time. And they can live together. There's no problem at all. Ministro, your thoughts? Okay, thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Energy transition is not something new. In fact, energy has been moving ahead in the last hundred of years. In the 19th century, the energy system was based in coal. In the last century, at the start, the energy system was based in oil, and most recently there was a shift to natural gas, also to nuclear around the 70s or the 50s, I should say. So I think that the issue is not around the way in which we will move the energy systems in the future. I think the issue is about timing, when we will move from a less carbonized sort of energy, because in the end what we are now talking about is around moving from fossil fuels to a type of energy that will have a more positive impact on the climate change. And I think that in this particular case that is most relevant is that instead of talking about how can we operate over the supply of energy, we have plenty of opportunities to also operate on the demand of energy. I mean, it is more relevant to start talking about management of the energy systems, integrating the way in which we supply and demand energy, and make a wiser use of energy, in order to in some way diminish the impact on climate change that a different type of energy can cause. I should say, and I am very pleased that Alejandro has mentioned, Argentina has been blessed by Mother Nature, by God, because we have different type of energy that in terms of quantity and quality are top class from fossil fuels, particularly natural gas, to renewable energy. We in solar, we have very good resources, and for that reason we have plenty of opportunities to develop the energy system in the future. The bad thing is that due to mismanagement in the past, a country with plenty of energy has committed a crime that we are currently relying on imports. So for us, the transition currently, is how can we replace imports of energy from our own sources of energy and do it in a wiser way. That is at the cheapest cost for our society. Luca, perhaps you could give an original view to the transition. Well, actually Latin America is a region which we see as a group operating worldwide and enormous potential for investments. In basically all countries, the renewable component, which is key, is a key component of our investment plan, has very great potential. Not only in terms of abundance of resources, but also in terms of its capacity into blending into a system in which in many countries has a very high component coming from hydro generation that may blend, actually renewables may bring security to the systems of the region by having different seasonal cycles with respect to hydro production. And this has been fitting very well with our strategy of investing in renewable and networks, because networks need to be developed in order to fit for renewables which may not just be at the utility scale, but also as forms of distributed energy. And those are the two areas where we see the greatest potential for region. Our investment plan that globally has 12 billion of investments over the next three years see for growth. Of those investments, 40% are in Latin America, by this region being only 25% of the size of a business. So our group, ISET Latin America is a key area for growth and investment and the two things that we are willing to invest are renewable and networks where we see an important potential in the networks first to improve customer service, which is of course the essential but also to generate new potential of integrating distributor generation, integrating the capacity to manage demand. Demand response will be an important component of the optimization of mix. All this going through digitization, which is a key element of the mix. Of course this has to go hand in hand with the development of different types of infrastructure. Transmission networks is of course the most visible one, but there are also other types of soft infrastructure, I would say. A system of logistics that's needed to have successful investments and it takes time to develop for countries to sustain and make cheaper and cheaper the investments in renewables. You have to reach remote areas. You have to develop a system to make your plant construction reliable. Also a system of rules. These plants need to be integrated into markets. This of course goes hand in hand with digitization and technology, but clearly there is a whole set of new developments that this technological revolution is bringing about and we think that Latin America is a continent in which the potential to be a leader of this already. Latin America is a leader in having renewable energy competing in price with the traditional energy and quite often being cheaper and more competitive can continue to be leading that transition. Maricio, your thoughts on the transition? Thank you. I think we all can agree, at least in the panel, that as you said correctly Minister, that the transition happens anyway and I think we will be going into these renewable sources. Latin America as a group of countries, we can say that we are kind of proud of having already today 50% of total electricity is from renewable sources mainly because of our hydropower footprint but on the other hand 30% of our population does not have electricity in their house. For us in the private sector, and has been in our learning as well, one of the important things to tackle is partnership. So how do we then make together the public and private partnerships bringing ideas of our scientists, of our business, our governments and the civil society in order to speed up the process of implementing these new sustainable and renewable sources. But the private initiative also, if I may say, have mainly three objectives that should be very close to us and one is that we ourselves in our own business we should look in reducing what is our carbon footprint. Number two, we should be looking and how do we, together with other entities in partnership, keep the strong advocacy. And number three, I think the important thing of making sure that we bring innovative technologies, products and solutions. So I just want to finalize and give you one small example of what we do. We have in the year 2014 invested in a innovation and application laboratory in Campina, Sao Paulo in order to get over our partners, our strategic partners, develop a technology of bioethanol of second generation. So making sure that we use the biomass, that in this case in Brazil is sugarcane, but not the sugarcane, what is left from sugarcane, so the bagasse and the straw, and starting with that generate bioethanol. So this is one example from the technological innovative part that I think we should bring and to tackle this situation of going in the direction of having more renewable energy we should work via partnerships. Great. Let me just quickly present Brazil's Minister of Mines and Energy, Fernando Coelho, who has just joined us. We are trying to do opening statements for the main question of the panel, which is the transition into a mix of hydrocarbons and renewables and how that can underpin development in the region. First of all, I would like to apologize for the delay, but that wasn't another panel. Three floors up. The Brazilian Interaction Group and we had too much interaction, so I got a little bit late, sorry for that. In Brazil, we have something around 17%, 75% of our matrix is from hydro. So we have another 10%, 12% of wind, almost nothing of solar, very few, something around 2% or 3% of nuclear. The rest is from thermal generation. So we're going to have the transition inside the renewable share coming not out, but increasing more wind and solar. That's for sure not only for the big solar farms, the big windfields, but especially for the distributed generation for the solar panels. And also we're going to have a transition inside our carbon side of generation, because in the past, and we still have, most of our thermal plants are by diesel and oil fuels. And in 2021 or 2022, I was talking of Minasaranguri, we're going to become out sufficient in gas production. With the gas coming out of the pre-salt, we're going to have a huge amount of gas and probably Brazil will turn from import to export gas in four, five years. So that's for sure we're going also to use this opportunity to shift our thermal plants from diesel to gas. Today we have, as I said, almost less than 1% of our 150 gigawatts capacity installed, less than 1% is solar. So the government is pushing for more actions and probably we'll have some in the end of this year to buy wind and solar energy so we can increase this share inside our matrix. And for the size of Brazil, we have different things happening at the same time. Today we're going through a very severe dryout in the northeast and we're having flood in the north. So the infrastructure and transmission that we have in Brazil helps a lot to one region help the others. So we're talking about transmission lines. There are 2,500, 3,000, 4,000 kilometers long. So that's what keeps us to maintain the balance between our sources. So it's already started in Brazil but I think very clearly we're going to have 2. One inside of the renewable share and the other one in our thermal share. Mr. Bogoroni, we have heard a lot about infrastructure and technology. As most, as everyone here knows, Argentina is sitting on some of the world's largest shale reserves. Specifically what do we need to see to develop those and is there, can Argentina learn from the US or other countries in this experience and also with renewables? Are there other examples to learn from? Yes, we have big resources for oil and gas in the shales. I believe that with the changes that the new government have been able to achieve, now those reserves will be economical to produce or those resources. And of course we can import the latest technology from the US, which is a place where most of the developments took place. And I believe that in less than a year we're going to have a very strong start-up. Of course we've been investing into the shales or we've been investing also into the tight gas. And that investment will continue. But with the new changes, now we know that we will be able to develop with a competitive price. And if we bring more technology, which now will be able to come, I believe that very soon we will try to be at the same technical level that the United States is today. People have to realize that we have drilled in the hundreds of wells to those shales and the United States has drilled in the tens of thousands of wells, 60,000 or 70,000. So the amount of drilling is very important because this is a lot of try and error. It's not something which is you go 100% by the books, you have to drill the wells, see what happened, learn and drill some more wells. But I believe that we're going to be very successful from what we have done in the past, just tasting the waters. I think we can be very optimistic for the future. Minister Arangurin, your thoughts on the development for Vaca Muerta? And also we just heard the Brazilian minister say that Brazil could be exporting gas in four to five years. I wonder what will it take for Argentina to be self-sufficient? I am very pleased to hear from my colleague from Brazil that this will be the case because we have a similar objective. And in fact, this will represent a cost reduction for our society because in the end we will move from being an imported country to an exporter of natural gas. We had this situation in the past, we lose it. And the reason I think that this time, due to the Presale in Brazil, Vaca Muerta and some other rock formations in Argentina, we will have the opportunity to become more competitive. We also need to mention that in the natural gas system has also been a paradigm shift in the last few years because in order to move product from one continent to the other, it's not anymore needed a pipe or a gas pipe. We can move natural gas by ship and this is in some way moving this product to a commodity price level and having a lower carbon footprint because that's the reason why we are also considering natural gas as a transition product, a transition fuel, in order to move from a much better energy system in terms of a climate contribution. I can say that we have put a lot of attention to the potential development of Vaca Muerta and recently through a very good agreement between the local government, the union leaders, the companies and also the federal government, we are confident that in the next few years we will move ahead and the country will in some way become again an exporter of natural gas perhaps at the same time that Brazil. So we will be competing for the same market. Luca, maybe you could say a little bit. We'll see renewable auctions in Brazil and in Argentina in the coming years. Is there anything else that you would like to see from governments? Is it from the private sector investment? No, as I said, I think that, you know, the opportunities is there. Some countries like Brazil actually have sized up on it since a few years. Other countries like Argentina recently started to launch this kind of auctions. It's going to continue. Renewable will be a key source of the future growth for this region. We see also other countries in the region going in this direction. Peru has been a starter. Colombia will be probably the one that will take this road as well. We see these opportunities as a widespread thing and as I mentioned before, I think that there are some types of infrastructure that need to be built. Typically, you know, they take more time. Infrastructure and transmission takes much more time than renewable to be constructed in some cases and this is a bottleneck in some areas. In Colombia it is one bottleneck. Other countries have started. Of course in Brazil this is a very smoother process although there are some slowdowns. We think that in general, renewable can be a major source of economic growth for the region also to bring down the cost of energy at the end of the day because in some cases they offer a cheaper alternative to existing contracts and to alternative investments. We see the countries really moving forward in the right direction for this point. Another theme of the panel in this conference is also regional integration. What are the benefits of regional integration? I think there are basically two areas where regional integration can move forward. One is transmission lines. The transmission may actually help regions to interchange areas, to interchange energy. Actually, Brazil and Argentina are, you know, a couple of countries in which this is already going on. We happened to own the transmission line connecting these two countries. We think this is something that should happen more, may offer additional opportunities. It's a long process because not only the physical infrastructure needs to develop but also the rule infrastructure needs to be built. I think another area of quite of importance is integration of standards, of rules. Also in the digitization of network, regional standards may help diffuse technology. So this is a very important point in which integration and transition in energy may go hand in hand. Before I come back to Marisi, does anyone else have any thoughts on integration and what it means for energy policy in Latin America? You want to? Well, I think if we look around the globe, more and more these economic blocks are developing. In Latin America, we have these blocks. They are evolving. Although I think that it can't be done more into that. Also from the technology sharing, I think we are not doing enough in technology sharing among the countries that we have in Latin America. So from that perspective, it would be great to have these kind of discussions but translate these discussions also in actions where technology and innovations are also shared among the countries in Latin America. What are your thoughts on integration and potential sharing? First, technology sharing. I think the oil and gas area with Petrobras recovery, I think there is much to learn with each other. Argentina is going for the offshore assets and opportunity, I think, and it's worldwide known that knowledge that Petrobras has in that area. On the other hand, the experience now the Argentina companies have in the shale in Vaca Borta, it's something that we are still starting in Brazil and we need to solve that because we have some conflicts that we have to solve first. Most environmental ones and all the times that we talk about a shale in Brazil, the people from the environment say we have already the pre-salt, the offshore assets, we don't need to go for that. But in my opinion, I think it's something that we need to dig more further to learn that. So I think we have something in this particular area to learn with each other. In the transmission, Brazil has some experience with Argentina, with Uruguay, with Bolivia and with Venezuela. Bolivia is the gas pipeline. We don't have transmission with Bolivia. Venezuela, we have a transmission that's not going very well this moment because of the problems of supplying the energy that Venezuela is facing. We have one that's going very well with Argentina that we help each other when it's needed and now we are going a step further, going through a different kind of relation that we are trying to build between Brazilian companies and Argentina companies. And Uruguay, we just finished our lines connecting both countries. That for sure, looking in the future, I think we're going to at least try to do one single planning for the whole region. I don't know if it's going to work, but I think we have the obligation to try to see at least this country or two or three more others to work together to see if we can plan that because we have singularities in each country that can compensate in the different periods of needs. Lots on regional integration and potential opportunities. Well, I believe that the Southern Cone of South America has a lot of opportunities for integration. From Argentina, we have pipelines to Chile, pipelines to Brazil, to Uruguay and to Bolivia. Pipelines can be used both ways and also all the transmission lines. And this is, in my opinion, without a good planning and the countries working together. I think these two gentlemen here have a lot to say in the future because the integration is usually government to government. And I think there are singularities in each country that will allow to be more efficient in energy use. And those, I don't believe we are taking advantage today. Maybe some. But the possibilities we have are much more. And so imagine all the infrastructure that has to be built when Brazil has extra gas and we will have extra gas and of course electricity and we have wind power and solar power and hydro all over. This is a tremendous amount of sharing that can be done and it will be very, very efficient for the area. So it's a very interesting investment proposal for the future. That's from Argentina's government and also plans for infrastructure. We will discuss this this morning. Argentina has border lines with five countries. And we have connections in terms of electricity and natural gas with all of them. I think that what we need is just, sorry, and I should say that according to the status of the electricity, the current electricity system, we can afford to have around 20% of renewable, intermittent renewable energy that if we want to move ahead and bring more renewable, we will need to share our resources unless there is evolution on the buffering system, on the battery production. And for that reason I think that it's quite relevant to start thinking about managing an integrated energy matrix for the sub-region, for the six countries in the southern cone in order to help each other, particularly for the intermittency of the renewable energy and also to share periods of high electricity offer due to the rain situation or periods of draft that we can in some way help each other. We agreed this morning to have a meeting among the different ministries in the next few months in order to start the process that by starting trusting each other we will in some way, independently of the situation, optimize the supply of energy and this will be for the benefits of the people of the southern region. Another thing I wanted to ask quickly before we maybe start taking questions from the audience is just when we are transitioning to more renewables, is it important to have a contingency plan to guarantee energy supply? Thoughts on contingencies in given unknown climate events that we've seen recently in the region to guarantee supply? Well, in a way, the developments of renewable are making the system much more flexible. It takes a lot of less time to build the renewable plants than to build a large hydro. So contingency plan should be thought in my view, especially for things that have a long lead time like transmission need actually is one of those. We think that demand response can also be an interesting lever to manage this thing but we need to develop infrastructure in the networks starting with metering infrastructure but also more intelligence, more digitization. These are the type of technology that add a lot of robustness to the system and make it more resilient to changes in demand or slow down of projects. I think it's very difficult to talk about Plan B without understanding what are the major challenges and one of the major challenges we were discussing at the beginning is storage for the renewables but storage overall. In this sense, again, innovative technologies can play a very important role. We have launched together the Oxford University and other partners at the beginning of this year a challenge called Bright Minds Challenge and where we have in a virtual way invited scientists all over the globe to come with scalable ideas on how to really make this storage a reality. And we have received many great ideas and the idea is to support them to make them scalable and to speed up the process and I'm very proud to say that among the top 10 scientists, three are from Latin America and we will reveal the winners in June 2017. So again, I think the private initiative needs to come with innovative technologies and solutions also to have the Plan B and tackle the major challenges we have in the renewable but the overall energy. Contendency plans? In our case I think we have so many sources and we have all these states connected to transmission so that's our contingency plan that's our backup, that's how we are doing today. In the northeast of Brazil we are facing a dryout so we are depending on the wind we know the thermal plants and we are depending in the transmission that sends energy from the north and from the southeast. That's how we are surviving in that area. When we have enough water to generate the big hydros there we can shift this energy that we have in the southeast to the south so that's how we balance the activities as well because only Roraima is the state that is not connected in Brazil. The other 26 we are fully connected with transmission lines and our generation our big hydro generation they are very well distribution. We have in the northeast the smallest one is in the south but in the south we don't have any problems of dryouts so in the south we have Uruguay, the connection now we have Argentina so we are very well supplied. We built during these years this interconnected system that works as a contingency plan for us and I think that's what we should do with the countries in the future because for sure in the northeast and I'm going to need Argentina's help Uruguay can face and can be helped by Argentina and I think it helps in both ways. Additional thoughts on contingency plans from other you before we question? Well I believe integration is the best for contingency plans and storage things that I think we have to work very hard and Argentina is working hard into that because we have this hydroelectricity in the south that is planning to build that will be another source totally independent on the previous sources so independency of the different sources is very important when you can and then you can play like you do it in Brazil today and storage is the other thing I believe we are 5-10 years away to have the storage for the networks for the grids because we have storage for the iPhones for the little things then we have storage and small buildings but what really impact the integration and the possibility to shift from one place to another is network storage and there are I counted more than 300 companies in the world I don't know your number that are very seriously working into that and so I think something is going to happen sooner or later and that is very important because will reduce the need of new electricity because today power plants because today most of the countries have enough power plants for the peak demand and if you have storage you can storage for the peak demand so you won't need to build new plants for some time and so that's that's a very important depending on the price the latest I've seen is they claim about $140 per if they get there we will be able to have a reasonable breakthrough into the subject I think that the best contingency plan is to be able to perform a proper scenario planning I think that what we need to do is to get a better assessment of what we could develop for the future in terms of early detection of shifting demand patterns in terms of supply decentralization of the energy sources is something that we need to assess properly I mean if every household will be able to have a solar panel in order to reduce their own demand and from time to time to offer to the grid some energy we need to assess exactly what is the impact of this decentralization on the whole energy and supply demand balance on the other side in terms of demand we need to assess properly the evolution of the mobility system how quick the transportation will move to electrical power is also relevant in order to assess exactly what would be the balance between different sources of energy in terms of the new demand that will be coming from the transport sector again is one third of the total energy demand in the country so for that reason I think that we need to spend more time and I'm saying this in a country like mine, ours in which thinking about future is not an easy matter because we are normally concentrating only in today and from time to time also in the past we need to talk more and think more about the future evolution of the energy system I see we have some microphones in the back so we can take some questions please identify yourself before Yes, Alejandro Guerrero from Marshmallow Glen Companies a lot of considerations have been given about generation, transmission and accumulation through batteries how much investment is actually being done in regards to efficiency such as lead technology and how much planning is being done by government authorities both Argentina and Brazil May I? Thank you quite relevant question and I think that we when I was talking about scenario planning we need at least in our case in our plans we have that the cheaper source of energy which is energy saving and efficiency will contribute with 15% of the demand reduction by 2025 in the electricity sector so it is the area where we can invest money with the best return and for that reason nothing needs to be reinvented I think that the only thing that we need to do is just to copy and paste what has been done in other economies and we do consider that this is a relevant part of the future energy matrix I mean this is the fourth source of energy in some way that's also something that the Brazilian government in the past didn't focus very much and we are working together with Electrobras with our bigger state-owned company in the energy sector to see how can we stimulate not only the federal government not only the companies not only the state governments to invest even more money to invest more of their time to gain efficiency as for sure that's the best return investment and the fastest I think as well that we can do because of the economical crisis that Brazil is still facing energy is not being a problem at this moment but it will be fortunately in more two or three years so by that time we are not going to have any other bigger generation being built a hydro generation being built so we are betting pretty much in the wind farms and the solar farms but we have something around in our numbers 10 to 15 percent of what we have now that is around 130 150,000 megawatts of energy that we can have more if we invest in in efficiency so pretty much you want to add something sometimes it's not even investment you know if you go to many office buildings or even homes in the summer and you go in and you freeze and in the winter you go in and you roast I mean the air conditioning at a temperature 24 that's what we're supposed to say one degree makes a lot of difference I just want to add and sorry that I'm giving the back for the person who has the question apologies for that in regard to efficiency in renewables we have been working hard into that in our advanced surface technology has enhanced efficiency of the solar panels so with special coatings that are less anti-reflective we can absorb much more energy and can translate this in a better cost of the solar energy so yes once again technology but partnership we have done this with partners in China because China is really big in solar and hopefully can also work together in this region I forgot to mention something in this question that the starting point in order to save energy is recognizing the true cost of producing energy and that this means that that it should also recognize the economic cost of production producing the energy for that reason there is something that we are doing is just providing the subsidies only to those people that require the subsidy but for the rest they should afford to pay for the cost of producing gas or electricity any other questions hi I am a global shipper Sergio from Puebla Hub I strongly believe that energy transition is a key element a key component for improving the state of the world I am curious because this panel will come to the end you will go back home and my question for every one of the speakers is what are you doing in your personal life with your family, with your group in your daily life what are the actions regarding energy transition that you are doing specifically to improve the state of the world thank you by starting reducing the consumption of fossil fuels despite that we need some investments in the fossil fuels arena and I think that this is a good starting point by switching off the light in a room when you are living you are also improving the world in some way I think we need to raise the level of consciousness about what is the impact of our consumption pattern in order to contribute to have a better future for the society I drive a flex view in the ministry changing our cars for electric cars we have inside the Ministry of Energy in Brazil and in my home we have fully LED lamps and we have the automation the automation systems that 1900 hours the whole building just shuts and who stays working late has to get up, press the button and that's more so we did that already at least in our building and we are trying to replicate that for other buildings to invite everyone to do their share and we have solar panels in our ministry as well it's the only one in Brasilia so far who generates our own energy well if I may privately yes, big time in solar I think that is a great technology thanks for solar from a company perspective what we do is that it really goes here about carbon price so this is for our company we have defined a carbon price and what does it mean for every investment we do all over the globe we take this carbon price as one of the major elements in order to decide how to invest why to invest and where to invest we as a company have been introducing and promoting electric cars throughout our group both as personal use and as well company car I have an electric car in Santiago we are proposing solutions in the homes I think digitization will be a key component of that measuring energy knowing more about consumption pattern make a lot more make a lot easier to achieve those things in the personal lives of everyone well personally I have been doing a lot of that also if you change your led lights light bulbs in a home you reduce to 10% the consumption of electricity it can be more or less depending on the quality of what you are using of course we do as much as we can in the office in the building using more gas and closing the circuits of the gas to produce electricity in a close circuit and also personal I built some buildings with a specific you know in the United States you have a regulation of a lead which is for efficiency and sustainability and so the new buildings we are doing have the lead certification and also actually personally I have a dairy farm and everything is contained and we produce our own energy from the manure through digestos you know that the cattle in the ranch they are very contaminating because if you do that in a shed you can take everything the manure into the digestos and produce methane and produce fertilizing so this is what we do in there to you know have a smaller impact on the pollution and the atmosphere I've just been given the five minute sign so we've heard a lot about technology about innovation and about working closely together as a region I thought we could just go around once and if everyone could share their final thoughts or maybe an insight into what was the most surprising thing from the panel could start on this side I think we have a very busy schedule by taking care of our problems and we don't dedicate much time to talk who is right next to us I think this is one great opportunity I'd attend the World Economic Forum this year in Davos I'm here next year the Latin America is going to be in Sao Paulo and I think we need to invest more time learning sharing, listening the opportunities the insights the difficulties that the other have probably we have the solution or probably the other have the solution for the problem that we are facing and I think we are talking about this the interaction how to do things to solve this problem how to interact even more to solve most of the problems I think that's the for me at least I think that's the key thing of meeting Latin America these opportunities well, I agree 100% and I will add we need to be more aggressive with technology I think we are just you know with technology we have to be more aggressive and that can be done and I think we have a tremendous amount of benefits to do that I just want to share a message with all of you Argentina will offer in the next 5 to 10 years opportunities for investment on average 25 to 30 billion dollars on a yearly basis to improve our energy system so I invite all of you to see the opportunities in the country and I think that you will get a decent return out of it well, one key component of this transition that was not talked about but I think at the end will be the key driver of that is a change in the mental paradigm we have about energy this revolution is not only about new technology and new energy sources it's also about thinking differently the world of energy that has been with central planning and thinking 20 years in the future sometimes the plans were not going in the direction they were thought I think that new thinking may include unleashing the power of users bringing new intelligence into the networks bringing new connectivity between users and producers making things in a different way will be a big component as technology of the new energy transition we will start with that we will finish with that and it's a bit repetitive but effective partnerships I think this is the name of the game making use of the synergies that we have does not need to be only public and private can be public and public can be private and private but I think one plus one should be three and not one plus one minus than two so what is a big challenge for all of us that's for sure and that will wrap up thanks to the forum and thanks to everyone who came out and especially for all our panelists have a great afternoon