Vicks, makers of Vicks' Vaternal Nose Drops, presents dangerously yours, a half-hour of romance and adventure starring Victor Jory in The Sheik. You know, more and more millions of people are using Vicks' Vaternal Nose Drops to relieve distress of head-calls, benefit by their experience. And now, dangerously yours, I am adventure. In my name men have traversed the highways, the byways, the skyways of the world. I have walked with beggars, ridden with knights in armor, sailed with pirates. I am the fire that burns in the heart of youth that makes men dream, and dare, and conquer. I am dangerously yours. They follow me to the deserts of Arabia, meet a girl who was proud, beautiful, and young, and meet the man who was determined to conquer her, a prince among all Arabs and in the eyes of all women, The Sheik. To decide the spelling of... That is beautiful, Effendi. Thank you. You're sure about the girl Gaston? I could not be mistaken, my master. She is the daughter of Dr. Winthrop, and she rides her horse this way every afternoon. And the fates are smiling on me. And I shall have the revenge I promised my father I would take. Wait until you see her.  I'm not interested in her beauty. I can get a thousand beautiful women without going to the trouble of stealing them. But not like her. I'm only interested in making her suffer, the way her father made me suffer. My master, look. I think I see her. Yes, that is she. I recognize her horse. Good. I shall ride out to meet her. Necessary that you should. Come, I think you will ride easy on my horse and my wife. Stop! Let me go! Oh, beautiful. It's useless to struggle. Here you go. You hear me? Let me go! It's not a chance, Ms. Winthrop. I waited too long for this moment. Candid, you're home. I hope you'll find it worthy. Brother Nye, don't you think? Are these two hanging lamps or a gift from the shore of Persia? I'm not interested in your lamps. I'm still waiting for an explanation of all these. Do you always ask so many questions? I think you must have asked a hundred for every mile of our journey.  That is because you fought and screamed. You're calm now, so what would you like to know? I'd demand to know why you grabbed me from my horse and brought me here. I'd demand to know what you want. Why, your company, of course. What else? Don't you think that tapestry is attractive? It was made by a hundred slave women and Baghdad, and it took them eleven years. Those silk and curtains around your bed over there came from Paris, and the bed itself is over a thousand years old. Very interesting, but I'm more interested in you. Who are you? I am the thief, Ahmad Ben Hassan. Why have you brought me here? Perhaps because you're beautiful. You see, I've never seen a woman with skin so soft or so fair, or hair so silk and her lips so red. I wondered what it would be like to touch that skin to kiss those lips. So I brought you here to find out.  Always. Well, you've carried off the wrong girl this time. Look, my friend, let's not play games. Just let me have my horse and let me go. Why, what's your hurry? You just got here.  My family and my friends are no doubt searching for me right now. I'll never find you. We're far in the desert. It's not easy to find an Arab tribe out here if the tribe doesn't want to be found. You have everything figured out, have you? I always have everything figured out. Now get out of those riding britches and dress for dinner. You'll find a gown, a very lovely Paris down there on the bed. Are you completely insane? Do you think I'd dress for dinner for you? Perhaps you'd like me to dress you. Oh! Oh, I really think you'd do it. You can be sure I will if it's necessary. So I would expect you in half an hour dressed for dinner. You'll find me in the next tent. Don't keep me waiting. Till then... Oh!  She is very beautiful, is she not, my master?  What are you going to do with her? I'm going to make love to her. I'm going to hurt her and humiliate her in every way I can. I'm going to take all the pride out of her and send her back. I feel a little sorry for her. She did not do anything to you. She is not to blame for what... Her father could have saved my mother's life when she was ill. My father, who never bowed to any man, got down on his knees and begged Dr. Winthrop to come into the desert to treat her. But he refused. My mother died. My father made me take an open blood that I would avenge my mother's death. And I'm going to avenge it. How sad it is that you must hate her when it would be so much nicer to love her. Love makes a man soft and weak. It is not for the strong. I love no woman. I have no time for love. You haven't eaten much dinner. I'm not hungry. You could hardly expect me to be. I don't know why not. You've been riding all day. I'm starved. You look very lovely. That dress does things to you.    I have a few words that would describe you, too. But a lady doesn't say them aloud. What I said was a compliment. Did you ever see a leopard walk? It's slow and graceful. You've noticed, I suppose, that it's always safest to admire a leopard from a distance. Yes, and you will notice that I have a little thought for safety. Come. Come with me. Is that a command? Only if you're going to be arbitrary. How is it that a desert sheep speaks perfect English? I was educated in England, at Oxford. Indeed. One would think you might have learned some manners there. There are certain things about Arabs that even England can't change. Come with me. Oh, well. I suppose I have no other choice. No, you have not. Come. It's a beautiful night, isn't it? It might be in better company. The desert under the moon is beautiful. I've always liked it. No. But, my dear, you cannot love the desert unless you've loved an Arab. Look at this sand. Hold it against your cheek. Say it is still warm. We have a saying among our people. I will love you until the sands grow cold. Where is that music coming from? Some of my men are playing. That's one of my favorite songs. Do you know it? Yes. It's the Kashmiri song, a Hindu song. And a sad one. You're very quiet. What are you thinking?  You're lying, guy. You couldn't be thinking that. Not under these stars listening to that music.  Your heart is warm. Don't flatter yourself. How soft your skin is.  And your lips are like crushed roses, as smooth as velvet undermined. Stop! You make love very constantly. I've never been kissed by a sheik before. I don't particularly care if I never am again.  Put me down! Put me down! No, my dear, not yet. You'll know a lot more about the kisses of a sheik before I put you down. Pardon, ma'am Zelle, but it is almost noon I have your breakfast here. Good morning, ma'am Zelle. Who are you? I am Gaston, Miss Diane. I am valet and cooked to the sheik I met with her son. I have brought you your breakfast. Thank you. Good morning. Get out of here. I'm not accustomed to men, servants, or sheiks walking into my bedroom. But you're very young. You'll get over that. Gaston. Yes, sir. Ma'am Zelle might enjoy a ride this afternoon. If so, you will accompany her and see that she does not go more than three miles from camp. Yes, sir. That's very generous of you, I'm sure. Well, I'll be away all day. You'll have to have some amusement while I'm gone. You look lovely this morning. Did you spend the night dreaming about me? I spent the night dreaming about how to get away from you. You'll get over that, too. I'm going out to break a coat if you'd care to watch how I handle rebels. Come along. No, thank you. Just as you like. You may ride this afternoon if Gaston goes with you. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Master, the girl is gone. Diane is gone. What do you mean she's gone? What happened? We were riding. She said she wanted to rest. I dismounted to help her down. And she whipped my horse and rode off by herself. You mean she left you alone in the desert on foot? Oh, that I do not mind, Effendi. But she is alone and helpless and riding straight toward the camp of Ibrahim Omer. And if she falls into his hands, suck. My kinsmen and ancient enemy would be well pleased to see her.  Run, Gaston. Call the men. Have them saddle the horses at once. Yes, sir. What horse is she riding? Your favorite, Zulika. Fastest in the desert. Well, she'll have to stop to rest. And with luck, we'll catch up with her. Come on. Master, I see her. Look, a white horse. It is Zulika. Yes, that is she. We're in luck. Stay with the men, Gaston. I'll ride ahead and get her. Are you hurt? No.  The Zulika did. Yes, my Zulika's dead. That was my favorite horse. I loved her more than I could love a human being.  Save me? What do you mean? You were riding straight for the tents of my greatest enemy.  I would not let that happen to the most miserable of women under my protection. She would be beautiful anymore. I didn't think you'd kill her. I never make a threat I don't intend to keep.  Well, I'm not overly fond of you at the moment. Come on, we'd better start back. What are you going to do to me?  I think you've seen enough of the desert.  You've been begging and pleading to get back. Well, you shall have your wish.  Oh, no. That's my cue to say. I'm sorry. In just a moment, we will bring you the second act of the sheath. Now, here's a warning to you folks who are suffering from late summer head holes that cause such all-over misery. To relieve the sniffly, sneezy, stuffy distress, just put a few drops of vagranol in each nostril. It brings such grand comfort so fast and so direct. You can actually feel vagranol go to work right where trouble is as it quickly reduces swelling, soothes the irritation, and helps relieve nasal congestion to make breathing easier. Vagranol is a specialized medication friend made for the express purpose of relieving the distress of head holes. And if your nose is stuffed up at bedtime, a few drops of vagranol invite restful sleep. Try it.  Follow directions in the folder. Vic Vagranol Nose Drops. And now, the second act of dangerously yours, starring Victor Jory in The Sheet. Oh, don't stop. You have a beautiful voice. I'm afraid I have no heart for singing tonight. Is there anything I can say that will make you forgive me for the death of Zuleka? The horse is dead and the past is past. Let us forget it. I don't blame you for despising me, but if you hadn't brought me out here, it wouldn't have happened. Ahmed, why did you bring me? I don't quite know. I was a little drunk with your beauty, I guess. And not thinking very clearly. I wish it had been because you loved me. I could have respected that.  Come, get your things together. Gaston and the men will be coming.  Yes. I'm sending along an escort of 40 men. They'll take you to the edge of town. Gaston will see you safely to your hotel. I put on the dress you liked. You haven't even noticed. Ah, I'm going to look at them. Diane, let's understand each other. I carried you off because you were beautiful and I wanted you. Now I'm sending you back. I don't want you anymore. Why are you saying these things? Ahmed, what is it?  It's deeper and more bitter than that. Why did you bring me here? I've told you. I'm not satisfied with your reason.  Ahmed, tell me. I have a right to know that you've done a terrible thing to me. A terrible thing? Yes, because you see, I've fallen in love with you. I never wanted love. I was happy as I was until you kissed me. What right did you have to kiss me to storm your way to my heart and then say, forget me. How can I leave and never be happy again? What right do you have to do that to me? The right any man has to cast aside something he has looked upon and found unworthy. Oh, please, Ahmed, that's not fair. Why don't you tell me the truth? Why did you bring me here? All right, I'll tell you.  Your father could have saved my mother's life and he refused to do it. And I swore by Allah that some member of the Windsor family would pay for it. I plotted this from the time you came to the desert.  And I did it deliberately to humiliate you. That's why I brought you here. Love you. Well, I could love any woman in the world before I could love you. But it's true. So I'm unworthy of you. Well, let me tell you something.  You exactest stern vengeance of vengeance which breaks the heart of a woman.  I hope you consider it a proud victory. Well, wait in my tent until Gaston comes for me. But the sooner the better. Well, Mr. Eldrush, right by me, did not see me. She was so angry. You were a bit hard on her, my master. I could not help overhearing. You attend your own business, Gaston. I was only three miles from home when she left me. It did not hurt me to walk. I am too fat anyhow.  It is not fair to blame her for that.  I should be very uncomfortable hanging by my thumbs. Then keep quiet. But, Defendi, you accomplished your purpose. You humiliated her. Her pride is gone. It is completely gone. Yes. I accomplished my purpose. On the other hand, I knew a man once who cut off his nose. He was never happy without it.  And the quicker you get that girl out of this camp, the happier I'll be. You know what I think? I think you'd love her. Get out of here. You, get out of here. How foolish love can make a wise man. Get out of here. You're mounted and ready to leave. Yes. Diana, I suppose there's no use trying to explain. Explain.  But I was just talking words. I thought I meant them, but I didn't. Oh, Diane, can't you see that I've fallen in love with you? I wish I could believe that. Oh, I wish I could believe it. I'd get twice the pleasure out of riding away and leaving you. Goodbye. And I hope I never see you again. I don't think you ever will. Goodbye. All right, men, on your way. I'll be sorry that I'll have more. Yes, Gaston, what is it? Gaston, good heaven and earth, covered with blood. What happened? We were attacked by the men of Ibrahim Omer. Attacked?  The girl, there were at least 100 of them. You must do something, attendee. You must save the girl. Ali, have them. Yes, sir. Assemble the alarm. We ride to the tents of Omer. Faster, men. Faster. Was no time to lose? Come on, faster, faster. So you're the English woman, Mike Kinsman, that she come and stole from her people.   What? You're not afraid to talk to me like that? I could snap your neck with one twist of my fingers. See? Like this. Yes? Well, at this moment, I don't care if you do. See? Mike Kinsman, the great fool, must have made you unhappy. I shall make him suffer for that. And I, personally, shall make you much happier.  Get away from me.  Do not flutter around like that. I do not wish to chase you.  So you defy me. Well, I have a cure for that. I have a cure. Suans! There are many horsemen coming. Suans! It's Amid. Oh, dear God, please. It must be Amid. I hope it is. Amid! Amid! Amid! Amid! Keep still. I will choke the worms in your throat. Diane! Diane!  Take your hands off! Amid! You're choking him to death. Amid! You'll never bother you again. Amid, look behind you. Amid!  Amid been a son. It seems we must settle a score for our master. He won't die, Willie.  I do not think so, Manzer. But he's so white. I'm frightened. He's only stunned, Manzer. It was a blow on the head. Water. Water. See? He's all right. He'll my master. Oh, Gaston, I love him so much. I can't help myself. I know, Manzer. I wish I could believe that he loves me. He risked his life for you tonight, Manzer. Yes. He almost gave his life. Diane? Diane? Yes, darling, I'm here. Oh, Amid, Amid, I love you. I love you so much. Oh, my darling, my darling. You're all right, Diane. Yes, Diane, all right. You won't leave me, will you? No. I'll stay as long as you want me to. As long as you need me. I'm sorry, Diane. I mean, I'm sorry about everything. You want to blame for what your father did. I think there's something you should know about my father. You see, Amid, he was the only doctor in this country for a long time. Perhaps. Your father never told you there was an epidemic of typhus in the town at the time. And if he'd left, it might have meant many deaths. I know because he told me the story before he died. He always regretted losing your father's friendship. Oh, I'm glad to know that, Diane. And I'm not going to ask you to forgive me. I haven't any right to forgive me. Darling, there's nothing to forgive, I understand. And I love you. I want to marry you and stay with you. Stay with you always. Oh, my dearest. Once, when I was not in love with you, I would have said stay because I'm lonely. But now I cannot let you stay. You'd be unhappy here.  Amid, you're wrong. This is just the life for someone like me. You went to England, but you came back to the desert because you loved it. And so I chose it too. I came to the desert because something stronger than myself came in here. And I belong here just as much as you do. Don't send me away. You shall meet great happiness. Don't take it away from me. Oh, you'll have a devil for a husband. You know my temper. I may even beat you. Arabs do beat their wives on occasion. I can take care of myself. You'll get a few scratches if you try it. And you'll love me more than you'll beat me. Oh, yes, that is certainly true. I will love you more than I'll beat you. And of course I do insist on one thing. You will have only one wife. It is a custom in our country. Only one wife? One? Only one. Not even an extra one? Not one extra. Do you think you can be all to me that sixty wives could be? I'll try. I'm sure you will. Oh, darling, I'm very grateful that you love me and want to stay. Much as I have loved the desert, I don't know that I could go on loving it without you. Listen, someone else is singing our song. Let someone sing it now. That's a sad song and I have no longer any need for it. Or even time for it. With you and my arms. Oh, darling.   Don't you pay that needless penalty. Just live sensibly and take vitamins plus once each day. Vitamins plus gives you full protective amounts of all the certain indispensable vitamins and iron you must have to feel and look as young and vitally alive as you should. So be sure to make it your health charm routine. Vitamins plus just once each day. I am adventure. Next week meet a man who was both daring lover and brilliant maid. One of the most exciting men of his day. Benvenuto Cellini, the firebrand. Until next week then. I am dangerously yours. Our script was written by Gene Holloway from the novel The Sheik by E.M. Hull. Dangerously yours was directed by Richard Sanville. Diane was played by Gertrude Warner. Music for the series is under the direction of Mark Warner. Be sure and listen in again next week when Vicks presents dangerously yours starring Victor Jory in The Firebrand. This is CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting System.


Well, the January thought that many of us have been enjoying this past week has been nice for outdoor activities. But as our Josh Peterson shows us, the warm weather has also been detrimental to winter fun. On a January afternoon, the Bemidji City Park is normally alive with winter fun. But due to the stretch of mild weather we're experiencing, the park sits quiet and the outdoor rinks and facilities have had to close. Winter rinks have been super busy up until this point and then sometime last week of course we lost most of our ice so they've been closed for about a week now and we're working hard to reflood and get things reopened as soon as the weather kind of cools off a bit. What normally this time of year is covered with a blanket of white snow is showing large signs of brown and green, a scene more commonly seen in March or April. Here at Bemidji City Park, the ice has melted so much that the grass is starting to poke through the ice. Getting a possible hazard for those who want to skate. As it starts melting and we have a lot of dirt showing, those are kind of trip hazards so we do our best to get it reflooded and we try to keep them closed as much as possible so we can really get a nice flood on so when people go out there they don't have to worry about tripping over dirt. The warm weather has not only had an impact on the parks, it has also raised some concerns for Bemidji's upcoming winter fest. We're definitely behind schedule but the weather forecast looks favorable and assuming we don't get a lot of snow and a lot of wind, we'll be fine. Current temperatures are not ideal for making ice so it may be a week or longer before the outdoor rinks see some skating action. We'll keep them closed until we have a good level surface on there so it may take us a little while but we have every intention of getting them open again. In Bemidji, Josh Peterson, Lakeland News. To find out information on the parks and their current conditions we've posted a link on our website at lptv.org slash news. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.


going to bring shackles and make them that charge Sure, like I I understand you marathi stands out there. I get it Look at all the support that I've got in this chat. I'm sure It's it's wonderful. Like I have them in order of problem on the screen, right? This is Tyler's show now But she's still in there. She's still in there Okay, so guys Are there other units? I saw you mentioned the the pinks Take your pick, you know 10 20 Are there other units slash hero units monsters, whatever that Would fit within one of these tiers. Let's say let's say arcana should be fixed in some way Yeah, that like a really problematic enough for talking out like us to talk about them Or you know, yeah to get to get hit a little bit in the should be fixed here. How about that?   It's just a unit. What are we saying is the nine storm of the storm fiends? Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's not a turning winning list. It's just a bad. I think it's actually a bad choice Yeah, but I still think it's like just something that shouldn't be done like that's that's it That's what it comes down to like it just shouldn't exist as an opportunity right um The so that would be one. Um pinks probably need like Yeah, like I said before it's just it In some degree like they certainly need FAQ. So we actually understand how they work. That'd be a good start Yes, right. Yes, and I'll also put out there Um, not that they're a problem, but the overwatch I'm gonna keep saying overwatch because we've mentioned 4dk with the unleash hell on the sisters of the watch and the handgunners because When I see that I see that as like a three-part thing But I'm also the city's player. So I'm gonna I'm gonna wish and pray That it's you know, you don't spend the command point. It doesn't count as being issued But they shot so it's not like they could shoot again. It's how I interpret it. Yeah, it's it's it comes down to how we Interpreting used Yes, because yeah, technically they have used it therefore There's an argument that they can't yeah Yeah, so I wouldn't want to shoot the same unit twice in overwatch, but I would still like to have my ability where I can have all my handgunners and my sisters of the watch Just just a wall of lead in magical arrows All right In the tournament that I played them at Not only did I get the good the good rules on the the two objectives in the middle on that one thing Each counting is two It was viewed it was viewed in my favor for that So what would happen is I'd pop stuff out of reserve with all my bonuses And because of the smaller table sizes in the range of where I was able to set up coming from the table edges It was actually against bigger gargots. I focused fired one make a gargot down and then I got the next turn and then shot another one dead Um, and I had a great time, but I can also see why that is is a bullpoo Yeah, I mean beyond that we'd get into arguments, right? Like it it's like what's the exact thing down from there There's probably a couple of those that are maybe low hanging fruit But but my point is you're going to get into like not as clear cut territory Like you bring in the stuff like sentinels Which is already happening right now several zombies Yeah, someone said salamanders. Uh, they're they're Salamanders already now capped two. It's like it's not as it's not as egregious. They're still very scary I think salamanders are actually the the sort of one of the lesser scary things in in serif on now I mean we'll talk about them on the next slide in in certain ways Um, yeah, they're like their stuff their stuff, you know And sorry rocko. I would probably put the turtle in there right now, man Listen, all right. So now shelly baby girl here. She's gonna have to have a talk with your marathi What 380? What do you want?  She is gorgeous. Oh, hey, I played this turtle before it got the marathi rules I brand the battalion the achillian corps that everyone hated just for the funner. That was the tournament I three out Um And she's been in my list ever since and now she's got good rules. She's got impact She's got good impact hits into a little one wound infantry I give her the bigger aura too so that uh, that's actually probably a thing too with that because That was never really uh expanded on because her rules say that it's a 12 inch or an above the marathi Right if something's hold within and the mantra. So yeah add three inches to that And you know, you would think okay three plus 12 is 15 and then you got a rules lawyer going well Actually, it doesn't say it adds to it. It's just making the the save aura bigger Oh, we lost tyler. Oh I defended my turtle. I defended He couldn't take this turtle defense. He was like Well, it's a two plus save. So obviously he wasn't killing me back with marathi with neg one rend sure Yeah, so my answer is, you know, there's there's probably more stuff that that I wonder if I add him back in He can join back in there we go. I wasn't sure Welcome back tyler So everyone's saying that your marathi just couldn't kill my turtle and obviously shelly's the the better girl. It's okay She's the better waifu. I guess sure. I don't know All right, they could argue about about which units need to be fixed all day. And so yeah too deep into that Like it it just it becomes the things people hate. I do agree with one point that was made in the chat that like, uh That like a lot of the problems that come come out of safe stacking Right. I guess that's that's what it comes down to. Yeah a lot of that is sort of the underlying rotten root At the core of this, right? Okay List building All right Uh, right how the back of my turtle. Let's talk list building. Here are some of my things Key strats you got to be able to deal with the gods So that means you got to have either a game plan for them or a way to take them out or a way to ignore them Or get away from them or whatever And by that I mean archae on marathi go track.  I don't care Oh, he's totally a god. He's the avatar Yeah You know, whatever tech list whatever pick your pick your gods, right? Um The power of three plus save on monster heroes like if you can get a three plus save Hero monster hero high wound hero Like you should you just should They're so I just say they're so good right now. Yes. Do you remember when everyone was complaining about ethereal amulet? Oh, sure. It's so much worse now. Yes. This is so much worse Yeah, 100 because like at least with at least with ethereal amulet every two and one they rolled actually did wounds Yep. Yep, right. That was the nature of the thing No Now it's like we are it's so easy to just make it only ones and there's still plenty of reroll ones I mean that that uh Empty thrown baron guard unit was a zinch mark. So they rerolled ones to save naturally Oh, nice. All right, and there's so much tech in that Yeah, like that's all the time. This is what they work Uh monsters that shoot So, uh, this is a I think underrated current category. This is a small list But this is what's powering the thunder lizard Uh, in fact, yes, indeed the turtle swinging by there But like I think a lot of the thunder wizard power thunder wizard First of all, I don't know what a thunder wizard is, but that's not what we need. What in a way?  Yeah That's All right, I'll give it to you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh monsters that shoot Okay, so the regular stegodons As well as the stegodon will chief on them have a bow that's on like threes threes neg one three damage that makes three shots Yes, okay Three damage Skystreak bow, baby. Okay The bestilladons are monsters that shoot just you know, potentially twice around Doing a whole just hordes of damage much more to even chaos Right. Yes. Oh, yeah. Okay. Love it. Love it. What is it double damage or these? This is like plus one. I think it goes from two to three But still I believe it's nine shots at full health. Yes. It's nine shots at three damage each, right? Like They're very points efficient too. You they lost the the weird like rules saying that they're they're an unrendable one up whatever save but They're still so tough. Yeah star still starts at a two up. It's it they're they're still basically unrendable. Um So monsters that shoot are really really interesting Because think of how many battle tactics You get bonuses for when you do with monsters Okay, and if you can complete those at range Like kill a battle line unit. You get a bonus if it's a monster. Cool. I have five shooting monsters Right, I'm gonna start rolling. Right. Yeah, exactly. There you go. Eat my own words here.  Come on storm cast dragons being good Yeah, exactly give it give us a real breath weapon, you know, so i'm very interested in monsters that have ranged potential Yeah, I think thunder lizards have it. I think there's a little bit in idk I think there's a few armies that have this and it's really fascinating um boy oh boy if that october book ends up being like a Abyss of chaos book as I as we all hope it will be Oh, man, and they completely remade the cygor scroll so it wasn't total garbage Oh, then could suddenly be a real power piece in that army Yes, right. Oh man that the the 14 cockatrice list can Go and stop with the four cygor list coming up out of nowhere killing these monsters that are being ridden by wizards Going everywhere. Oh the potential sure and You know for gom says uh shooting monsters get almost nothing from monsters actions monsters that only shoot and don't melee one who cares Is my answer not i'm not trying to be rude to you for gom. I'm just saying like one who cares those are those are bonus things I don't care Like we don't need to go I don't need those two things like stegodons. I can still charge happily into units Right and and get those things going. I can still just be running around destroying faction terrain Like I can do it when I need to do it Yes, right So like I'm not Do you know how many like in all five tournament games? I had two monster actions used against me the whole tournament Not to mention that everybody loves hunters of the heartlands nonsense All right, so it's like you have to get to do your monster actions like so many lists I was up against head And I was like enjoy that Like I got zero of those and I don't care Yep, right So, uh, like I just don't see it as a thing. It does not matter like they're they're interesting bonuses once in a while Like there you go Uh units that can answer battle tactics be thinking about what of your units are going to be really good at excelling at battle tactics Right who can move who can get into who's going to complete your Your savage spearhead who's going to be really good at pushing and finding the battle line unit and and yoan and so on and so forth, right? Uh, and that leads to my next point mobility matters like mobility matters so much in this new Even on the smaller board it sounds like it shouldn't but I think it matters even more Because you tend to be more mixed up with people So the I don't know why to teleport to be around where you want to be Is such a huge deal when the board has a lot more like high flying movement to me is the most powerful thing in the game right now Like if you can get a super high flying movement Because the board's often real gummed up and it's often hard to just pick up and teleport and drop back down at nine You don't always get to be where you want But if you can just shoot over at the top of people and move 16 19 20 inches, whatever nonsense, you know Yeah, yeah, uh, suddenly you can be everywhere you want to be Yep, right I've had I've had games. Sorry. I just want to say this real quick where the the humble felbat or the aether wing Uh has been able to even just fly over people Prosecutors if they keep their 3d6 charge, I have to say it like that because we don't know a book yet yeah, uh to just charge over screens and Just assassinate a hero or just again just tag a little bit just to steal an objective. Yeah So definitely shell of course. Yeah. Yeah.  That's a good one Yeah, yeah DPS checks. You got to keep DPS checks in mind. They're a list. They're going to DPS check you Second place at Nash con was a 235 wound savage oracle list. It was brutal. It was just bodies just Swarming the board Insane DPS check, right? Um, like that makes mega gargants look like a walk in the park, right? Just the sheer number of wounds And and the board presence that they have like they were just everywhere. They were everywhere I would walk by his games and he would just be like every time he would dominate 75 of the board Yeah, right and it's funny because like everyone said going into third. Oh hordes are dead So no one's bringing horde breakers Because they're not planning for that They're planning for the marathies and the go-tracks of the world and then there's this this person 245 however many wounds. It's just a green tide Yep. Yep. You didn't see that coming Uh, and then finally power projection like what in your army can actually project power? And that doesn't necessarily mean ranged attacks that could be could be spells could be ranged attacks Could be high movement, right? You got to have something in there that projects power in a real way Yeah, that's that that to me seems to be the key stuff that you want to think about when you're when you're list building What do you gentlemen think anything I missed in your list building thoughts in 3.0 value? I mean, I concur with everything you're saying that you hit every major thing I'd ever want in a list by different considerations um, I mean it's Yeah, it it's if it and one thing to remember is Local metas are your more important thing you see like we'll talk about all these tournament stuff, but they're going to be Times where your meta is just for dudes that hang out in your basement Playing random stuff and you'll never see a marathi or a go track. So you got a plan for whatever they're bringing You know and you're laughing like yeah, I kill savage orcs all week in my thing And then you get to some of these bigger tournaments and then this is where this stuff will come in Where like I I know for my local meta there are three to four different gargant players That could bring that And on my article I need to kill a mega gargant turn or a unit of three minis I know they they bring a list with four megas. What is my dps check for that? How can I swarm and kill and move on to the next one? What what am I setting up for battle tactics because I I know There's a few deepkin players and you know, they're they're Going double turtle And how do I try to crack through that when I need mortal wounds? How do I deal with people that you know have spell portals with the tech list that can just throw it out And then get rid of it at the end of their turn What do I do for a bridge from tempest thigh or someone who's KO'd flying high around their ships? Yep One thing I want to say that david had a few fun awards at nashkon So he had an award for killing the most monsters and an award for killing the most generals Okay, since there's no bonus. This is the orc player. No, no, no, these are just two separate awards Okay, we're there. Okay the person who won the monster killer award. It could be slayer or whatever it was called. Okay Mm-hmm killed 20 monsters 20 Over the course of five games. He averaged four monsters a game He thought he was he was a city's a sigmar temp also a tempestive player. Okay. Yeah Yeah, he had the the he had the standard 420 blaze it build Sure, sure And he fought two suns players It's just smoked them Oh So dream run man. There you go. Yeah 20 monsters his nearest competitor had 12 That's one of the more incredible things I've heard in a while with a west 20 over five games. That's that's amazing Oh, this game is nutty Yeah, I find uh, let's building again, it's total potential recency bias, but uh, the the mix I find it the most intriguing that I can maybe ever remember in the game Sure As you said Rocco, you know, a lot of us thought msu was going to dominate hordes are still very prevalent There's a lot of value in running them and having the dps check They're good. They can be helpful with battle tactics. They can help all the number of fronts but non Hero monsters have a greater role hero monsters and certain heroes have a greater role A more meaningful role than ever, especially hero monsters, obviously So I I think the mix might be the best that it's ever been just in terms of You know the viable variety of just about anything under the sun and and again, we're seeing that in About anything apparently can go You know, certainly three two if not four one Right.  You see some of this Uh, the zinch build start get You know picking up some steam And and now here he is the board got smaller so you can power project farther is a single model worth all those points Just murdering things left right in center Yeah You know because before it was either you tried to kill him or you avoided him Now the board's smaller and he flies and has all this movement and is the hero monster that can do all this extra stuff Right, and you're like, huh Can't avoid that. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah All right, cool. Let's keep moving Drops and deployment Okay Uh Yeah, okay or dnd Yeah, uh Drops how much does being a low drop matter? That's the question I want to discuss shooting ambushing alpha early claims all this kind of stuff Right, that's that's what you're that's what you're negotiating over when you're negotiating your drops And then deployment my argument is it matters more than ever especially based on your drops It's almost has to be derivative of your drops, right? Yes There's a much shorter space between armies on average And also and this is something that we talk about that a lot, but they're what this Uh Joe fever asked what what does 420 blaze refer to an aos 30 iron drakes often with a bridge Uh, who get teleported forward set up and have the rune lord buff on them So uh, usually with hawk-eyed So they're making like Two attacks each so it's 60 attacks coming out of the unit on like some probability of probably twos and Uh twos because they'll if there are generals near them with hawk-eyed Then there there are twos and twos neg two rend One damage each so they're just they just shred anything they touch because it's like it's It's insanity And that unit's actually fairly tough to pick up especially with enemy shooting Okay, and it's obviously a porcupine if you charge it you just die unless you charge it with a chaff universe and then double charge it so Okay At any rate So Drops and deployment gentlemen Tyler start us off. How much is being low drop actually matter? That is a lot. I think it's still highly relevant. It's a 3.0. Yeah, it is somewhat less dependent I think certain lists are gonna Want to be more low drop than others? So I don't play lumenet. I haven't played lumenet in a while. I played in the 2.0 I would tend to think that all those sequel you want to be a low drop lumenet list. Yes for various reasons. Yeah That's playing Playing daughters of kane. It's another glass cannon army apart from rafi Everything generally dies in that army to about anything in the game So I don't want to be doubled at any time Ideally and again, sometimes I run into some problems because I'm still in automatic mode of I'm just going to give my opponent first turn And call it a day Which has bit me in the butt a couple of games when I shouldn't have done that But yeah, because I don't want to be doubled because then they get into the cauldron or the kina rye or the snake bows and they get wiped out Yep So Yeah, a short answer. I think it's just as if maybe even more relevant than it's ever been and there's a lot of nuances and details to that Yep And there are some armies and builds where you're like, all right Deployment is so important. I want to go high drop so I can counter deploy And that'll come into play and you're like, I don't care if I go second because I've I've brought Extra cheap units of disposable bodies with maybe pregame moves To try to psych out my opponent Where I can move up and cover space to stop them from teleporting in I can pull them back to actually have a farther distance between us I've seen where they're putting their wizards that are going to be casting buff spells So I can now put my auto on binds near there If they're going first to try to pick up this alpha strike on me I can game plan this and list building if again, this is prevalent by you and Some armies again do have the tools for this the city's the current storm cast again even um Like anything that could ally in those and I'll order a lot of Grots because they have the bodies for it chaos with the the warband That uh does the the one with the the the rock prowler the untamed beasts. There we go. They've got a pregame move Yep There there are ways to get around that if you you're like I I can't afford The uh just to go like a battle regiment or even two battle regiments and I'm like, all right So if I'm not playing in that space, how do I take in this new space? How do I? Go about this and it again It's building these extra cheap units to be chaff and screens and we're gonna say all these buzzwords So that when they take that first turn to alpha strike me They just hit a meat wall that cool you killed 100 points now my army swings and I've got 1,900 points coming in on your 500 Yeah, so let's talk about the nature of drops in the game right now and my estimation you're the everything clusters around one four five and infinite Yes Okay, I mean, I think I I do think there's still That's something something to be said for two and three in there, but yeah, like again. I'm talking about clustering Yeah, where does it where did like if I were to chart it out, right? You would they wouldn't be zero But you'd see spike spike spike And then just like but a bit of a bit of a bit of it. It should look like a heart monitor from there, right at like Yeah, yeah, whatever, okay Yeah, that's probably fair, but just the point that you know, like I think Two drops is a very coherent. Sure. There's plenty of armies that will two drop, right?  Exactly sure. Yeah, yeah Sure, um scaven are a great two drop army, right? You often have two big things you want to take two big leaders But when I say one four five It's because there's there's a pretty obvious battalion combination that equals those Sure, right Like one is you just fit in the unified battalion four is your your unit your battle regiment plus command And five is your battle regiment plus warlord and then more is your something else Right, right. Yeah, but I could see a battle regiment or hunters of the heartlands being a four drop as well Hmm But yes, yes, not to take away from the point to add to yeah, but yeah, totally fair. You're absolutely right at any rate the like The the reason I say that like those are the sort of where things where things group around is you should know those Numbers and know where you're at and then what chances that gives you Right, yeah, like if you're five drop that means against all the infinite drop people You get choice against the five drop people you get roll and a lot of the times against some very strong lists You you're not getting the choice Right, that's you have to know that Yes, and so like drops in deployment have to be this back and forth thing interacting with your list building Right, because if you're playing in an army or playing a list where you have like chaff for days High mobility and some kind of power protection Then sure you can be a million drops and probably not care Right Like smorgans Eshin list is probably a great example of this right like he could be a million drops and not care because he had like units He had ambushers, you know, he had stuff he could teleport around he could move his army very easily everybody could run and shoot Right, so the army could be suddenly very fast. It could just explode out of its zone So like he could be a million drops and it was irrelevant Right, if somebody handed him the first turn great He'll claim the points if somebody takes the first turn who cares they can't do enough damage And then he's just going to flood around Right So like if if that's the kind of thing your list can do So my point is these need to keep referring back up and down to each other Right and to list building our previous slide at the slide and like all of this needs to inform each other Right if you're playing Like a chafless Luminev Okay, then you probably don't want to be a million drops No, you can't afford to take the battalion for the extra artifact You're going for whatever sub faction you took and you're gonna like it And it's just that one right because you can't you can't afford for them to be able to get into your juicy stuff right with like You know without you having stuff in the way Right, they're gonna be able to to sort of control the the nature of the the flow of the battle So like you have to understand your list and how it's going to play. How will it deploy? What will its response be to the enemy's actions? How does that affect the drops I need to tailor my list to and then how does that factor back up into my list building to fit that So it's like yeah, you climb up you claw down you climb up you claw down right over and over again until you get to that balance I think that's how they interact right. None of these can be taken in a vacuum No, no, they can't I I completely agree that is And and the sooner us as the community can get in on this The better for the health of our game too. Sure And and soon eventually we'll see like yeah, you know, there are going to be more armies that don't care about drops They go into that that bajillion you don't mind But you got to build for it and you got to make sure you have the troops for it to do the extra chaffing And if it's again, you're bringing 50 sentinels a unit of 20 unit of 30 jack ballard styled now with a techless And the spell portal and he had one hero lord The venari arch region whatever is the guy on llama horse Yeah, you know and it's and then two units of 10 of the the pikes That's a very tight list and you need first turn or else you're just going to get blown off off the table That list sounds like a good argument for apex predators Of course he might just shove all the heroes But I mean that that's the thing that I like the most about apex predators is I hate seeing all these lists That have two measly little heroes, you know, five six ones or one forgot six No, I understand it was always the reason I defended the you know, the previous versions of that Yeah, and also deep can take a hit for that too in some of these more Like, you know, say you'll spam one more time Um, and it's well now it's an idol on and a king or maybe if you're doing the flip tide It's the the little foot wizard the tide caster and an idol on right, um On the on the whole l or y l or l wants to be a low trap and again like the first uh the smooth brain is They're a lot all less equal. They're a glass cannon like yeah, they're often assuming you're outside of huracan Yeah, right. They're a low mobility Elite fragile army. Yes Yeah, and you You know, you're gonna be playing in different missions and you really need to dictate what You what is optimal for you to do in round one what's optimal may be to Hop on objectives as opposed to getting pinned in your deployment I mean, I played so many games in 2.0 where I was trying out high drops lumenet And I would just get pinned in my deployment and I couldn't get caught back up in time Yep, and yeah, and they're really fragile all those sequel. They can be really fragile. You know, obviously not a metrica There are some exceptions, but generally they're fragile.  Well, it's game over at that point, you know, things like that It's kind of similar to what my what I was saying about daughters of k And I don't want anybody getting into the cauldron that can arrive the snake bows or it's game over right, right And then swaggy. Yeah, exactly like if you you have troops that can just deliver unbelievable pain But if they get jumped by the fights, they don't want to have it's over And you don't have chaff in LRL right Uh, so swaggy shadow said, can you explain why you would want first? Um Uh, would like to alpha but is standing on the objective that important Sure. So alpha lists will often want first high shooting lists will often want first Like tom took first turn quite a few times, right?  Yeah, their first hero phase or whatever the heck they can do whatever they're there There's always a I think he chooses the turn at half. But yeah, that's the point So like, you know The fact that he could get into people before they'd have any of their defenses up Like what they could they have an all out defense and maybe they put a lot best day ever on one of their heroes, right? But that's it Like they have limited options Yeah And also for LRL it's important to get the word say from teclis because you do tend to run elite And the grand scheme of things keeping your guys that much more alive Um, you know, if you're say something like a zytrek you can stack your pluses to cast pretty easy with teclis still being alive um, you can Lamb it and light really well through the star portal which people sleep on a bit and then this is where the oh I've got 30 archers that are re-rolling to fish for fives and sixes And all of a sudden that conversion rate and that math just jumps up Um Yeah, but beyond the alpha strike I think there is value like you can still sometimes want to go first if like for example if you are playing a Basically melee only army Right. Yeah, let's say they've only got melee. Yeah, fine You know, it might be the right answer to Let's take nergal as a good example. That's probably one, right? Yeah, where they don't have like in some builds. They don't have a huge amount of hitting power But they're hard to move Right, they kind of get stuck in It can be a good idea to sort of like get up there screen them out earlier You know, sort of like to exactly as as tyler said, you're not trying to alpha You're not going to go across the board and attack them. There's no reason to fight them But you can get out claim the appropriate objectives and the appropriate scenarios and sort of set the board up To prepare yourself against the double Right like you you kind like you have the time to like put all your buffs on Move into the exact position set up new like move your castle forward set up new double shaft lines You know, whatever you're doing Right to to sort of prepare yourself for the worst-case scenario But now they're going to have a really hard time shifting you and getting the full three points out of the objectives in the first round Right in certain scenarios So that can be the other reason to go first, right? You can force them into a position where maybe they only get one or two out of the basic objective points Yeah, I've got a I've got another way too. You could always move backwards and apply all your defensive buffs Sure Depending on the scenario of course for like what you're scoring or your sacrifice. Yeah, yeah Yes, but just take that step back. That's what I loved in 2.0 It's how far away some of the the starting lines were and it's like, yeah I'm going to give you first set up a double my cool I'm going to step backwards and shuffle my dudes And like what my yep, okay, then come up and then you double turn me It's like you just said one turn now.   Yeah, good. Yeah, I just want to say real quickly on uh, lumina for what it's worth I've certainly have found the lore seeker to be a For a piece that can give you the choice or that can force your opponent to let's say go first Or to go second So even if you have high drops of luminous He's like a little ace up your sleeve that you depending on how you deploy him He can force your opponent into a specific decision He's kind of like a way to dictate priority around one without being low drop just for what it's worth anybody's interested in I mean the win seeker is is what he is, right? I mean, yeah, he's great He loves him too. Sure. Yeah Super tech piece Um, I might convince tom to do either luminous or settlers gain for as my partner and havex. So we'll see I might get him a finally into the elves Okay, all right. Yeah, I find the drop game guys just utterly fascinating like rocker You mentioned at the top of the show, you know hundreds of the heartlands warlord double warlord double bad reg A single bad reg like there's so much going on now and Hopefully we're still going to have this in a few months time once we start getting these battle tombs And then we're not just going to get back to crazy town with battle tactics everybody and Corbett telling everybody but we'll see because that's the fun bit because we're playing a pure 3.0 game without knowing What any of these new battle tombs truly look like? Yeah, but we could hope that everything's a soul like grave lords because that came out Great. It's transitioned well For all the worries that everyone's had We've seen tournament play with it go strongly And you know if we get more of those where it's not it doesn't come out overpowered in scaring everybody and freaking out You know, it'd be a win for the whole system All right Community comp our last topic of the day. So we're gonna move through this one kind of quickly But you know, this has been talked about a lot lately And I have pretty strong opinions on this and here's how my strong opinion goes Um any to should do whatever they feel is appropriate because it's uh, it's you know, it's instant meritocracy What I mean by that is like if you decide you want to comp something and no one buys tickets to your tournament your idea was bad It's that easy Okay Yeah, um pretty pretty straightforward marketplace. Yep. Exactly. Yes. It is it is truly it is actually a marketplace of ideas. Yes um and the The the the concept that we would like in some kind of structured way Create community comp.  Any to does what they see fit as always That's what makes tournaments interesting toos being kings Right, like I I sort of want pre unification idly or you know that that kind of thing I want like I want lots of city states, right? Lots of people making interesting decisions and and uh, and you know Sort of that rising and falling I have no No absolute faith in any way that we could turn this over to some kind of governing body And have them start sensibly laying rules on top of whatever gw Is doing and we all suddenly think that yeah, they're the they've they've cotton to the right thing Like yes, there are problems systematically in the game And we need to raise our voices and make sure that gw is aware of them in a in a You know sort of courteous and professional way, but make sure to make it clear that it's a problem And uh and those rules and issues should be fixed by the people who own the game It's their responsibility to do so As the game's designers Yes, not like there's there's no governing body. There's no Uh, there's no people i'm going to trust as an authority It just doesn't exist. So the only like as a as a community group And I don't want to see this This I I don't want to see the community suddenly split apart into incredibly divergent metas that further increase the barrier of entry on people going to tournaments Because that's what comp does these incredibly complicated comp systems that people lay over things to try to fix all the problems in the game Just create more barriers of entry to people ever going to tournaments because they don't know what the heck it's talking about They bought books. They think they understand the game and suddenly this tournament is playing by a completely different way Yeah And I just I I don't like it. I think it's net negative. I understand it's fixing problems that need to be fixed I also agree those problems need to be fixed. It's the wrong solution Um, it it doesn't do or accomplish what people think it does And there's no reasonable way to come to a consensus Uh on this if you're talking about like some smaller community Of a game that's more like unified in some way like adam just mentioned something like the blood bowl The previous blood bowl league where it was a dead game And they had no choice and they came together and formed a governing body and everybody got together and said You know worked This this is how we should run our games and this is what we're going to lay on top great. That's fine. That worked for that, right? That's just not going to be the case in a living game where stuff is changing constantly Who's going to agree what the how do we agree with the initial set of changes are? Who's going through and updating that because you don't just need to do it once. Who's now full-time job? Right. Yeah is keeping these things current Right Yeah, who's going through and updating these every time there's a points change every time there's an FAQ every time There's a new battle tone every time there's a change Who now has the invested constant authority and will and drive to not do this once but to do this every day For the next x years I just as a side note to this the Best example that I can think of in the six years was early on when we were in that 2015 free 2016 ghb stage So we had we had moe with his uh circle city clash I think it was and so-called moe comp, but I mean people may not even know about this and then moe comp led to Helan hammer Wayne to the south coast and south coast gt Yeah, and it was and it was rust and wait those guys getting together And they were essentially A shared baseline of comp for the community and it really became the the collective attractor if you will in the community But I mean they sure as hell didn't want that job permanently And I think it did it did meaningfully lead into the ghb and they were heavily involved in that process But yeah to me it's a pretty good example of what vences is talking about in terms of the challenges of trying to do something Like that on a permanent basis and actually getting by and everywhere. I just want to quick shout out welcome back Carina glad you enjoy the hobby cheating videos. Thank you very much. I hope they're helpful I'm glad to see you're getting into painting minis for d&d. I've been playing d&d for 32 years now still have a weekly game. So certainly understand that it's uh It's a it's a great time. All right at any rate Uh, yeah, I mean rocko What like is there anything I'm missing here because I see all the problems like I get the positives They're there, but it's a small pile and the negatives are a big pile Right, so I think Another thing that needs to be considered with this with those early things was not only Was aos one such the wild west we were also No community way we needed to do it. Yeah It was also a tenth a twentieth of the size the community was then that is now Yeah, and like if we look at what like the itc did for 40k for the past few years Or they like abandoned gw's tournament system and made their own that eventually got folded back in We we don't have the the manpower. We don't have the player base. We don't have the people. We're still a growing game This they're the logistics just aren't there Even in the best fever dream of this all working where we do have our own independent board of whatever The game keeps updating are we going to all all of a sudden turn our backs on gw and go? Yeah, that's nice. We're going to go do our own thing. We don't have a large enough player base to split To do these things to then go and say oh if the one system is better than the other and it There's just not enough of us at the end of the day And and the game's ever-evolving. We need such a robust system that we are not centralized enough to have Uh, maybe the australians can do it because they all freaking know each other But and they have their own meta way out there. I I got made in honor of australian. I don't know about the big sheep um, I I know About bendigo. I I ballerette. I can name a bunch of towns that sound like vows get thrown together, but Unless you have such a close-knit community like that It's just not going to happen Yeah, I mean the the the answer here is like I get why people want it because they don't feel like gw is responsive enough to to To the challenges, right? And that's probably true by the buy, right? I mean riot games isn't Go ahead. I just want to say this one Like uh league of legends and valorant, uh the riot games that that does patches for their own video games Like once a week to every two weeks Isn't responsive enough Yeah for their own player base and they're growing metas of all their craziness And why would we ever think a board game model game this kind of analog? World that we're bringing in here would ever have an apparatus Capable of doing this if a video game company. Yeah, hold on. I want to address them here over here T sirathi said it feels like most the arguments against some form of comp depending on the possibility of gw Doing something they've never shown they even want to do. I'm not saying that I that's not my argument at all at all So I'm going to repeat what I just said in case I'm being misheard It is gw's responsibility to fix this this junk that's wrong But even if they don't do it or do it wrongly that is irrelevant The problem with it is there is no single authoritative body that should be handed the power Of changing the entire game by fiat Increasing the barrier of entry of people at tournaments who are going to then keep a living system Of comp laid on top of this at all time that stays current responsive to every release battle tome f aq and points change Right and then it's adopted and feels like suddenly we're hedging out toos who want to do their own thing It actively makes the community worse Individual toos who feel that they have the power to operate within the space from a common set of rules and change what they want to change I'm fine with if at your tournament you want to make archae on 1200 points or not allowed or ban special characters over 500 Or whatever I don't care. I'm all about that the ones I like I'll go to the ones. I don't I won't as I said It's just a simple meritocracy. It happens easily and quickly if your ideas are good people come play your tournament If they're bad, they won't Right. Yeah, it's that simple But like the negative externalities here are so strong It's I'm not saying we shouldn't do it because it's because it's gw's responsibility I'm saying it's gw's responsibility and we shouldn't do it because All of the other things that are bad That's what i'm saying And I just think that list far outweighs the positives. I'm not saying there are no positives. There are Right if if magically we could get to a point where we had that governing body Where where they were making the right choices at all points in time. Sure There would be some positives They're really would like some of these silly things would get fixed Okay, so winston what what would you you know gunder your head you're forced to Go down this general path of community calm What how would you do it and the way that you thought was You know the least bad option I would write a set of potential recommendations that to's could choose to implement in their games or not And they're sorry in their tournaments or not Okay, can you expand on that? I mean, I would provide a menu of choices for ways that they uh For ways that for for individual rules like a buffet that they could choose from To implement in their tournaments that are all things that would seem to have a A at least the most minimally hurtful and maximum maximally positively impactful Interactions on the type of tournament they want and I would group them by the category of what are you trying to achieve? So I would drive them by value benefit statements What are you trying to achieve if you are trying to create this kind of a tournament? Then consider a bc and d if you are trying to create this kind of a tournament consider e f g and h Whatever And I would I would empower toos to make the decision through a um Through a You know there through their own decision making they know their local community They know their meta. They know their people who come to their tournament I why do anything but empower them? Right That was that is that that is the best way I could think of to do it Okay, so give me give me some examples of specific specifics like are we talking about 1,000 points? No special characters over 500 points a 500 points plus So go trick sneaks in, huh? Or is he getting the bump up or points plus? I don't care pick whatever you get, right? Okay, uh You know like the following units can only be reinforced once ever Right, uh Yeah, stuff like that Right Don't those kinds of things Okay And yeah noops plastic crack did have an awesome post On on this topic. So we've talked about him on the show quite a bit over uh recent months So yeah, folks can definitely find that uh on on his blog All right. Uh, yeah, that's okay. So that's interesting And would so would you would that be an effort where you're trying to get like Dave Griffin and Brenda Melnick and it's you know, name your favorite You'd have to make it like some you have to you have to get it like imbued with authority Which means you needed to gather together like a host of different toos and people who are sort of highly respected in the community You need to all draft this constitution together Right and and whatever like yeah, you've got to have your 1776 convention Right Like I sure you got to have your first and second constitutional conventions. I suppose as it were right Like you can't Yeah, like like wait you're gonna but I mean people will revolt Yes, there will be people who hate it. No matter how open you are And then you'll get in articles of confederation.  Hold on. What are we We got a revamp. We got a then you get a she's rebellion and then you get You're like, okay, maybe different countries do different things Maybe this could be something that the aos worlds organization Like if we're gonna say the top of the top of the top of whatever, right? I mean my answer tyler is gunned in my head. I my how do I do this? I say pull the trigger Almost made me break my no cursing thing. I'm trying to do for you. My goodness So so backing up to the start of those ventures that we were talking about the little marketplace of ideas meritocracy Now I've heard a lot. I Did the traditional miss 20 years of warmer fantasy, but I'd heard a lot that Fantasy 8. Yeah, man. We're in fantasy 8, you know, there were comp systems and that there were quite a bit of variants I don't know if that's true But that's what I'd heard eventually probably you maybe rock or you as well could speak on to this But what I what I'm hearing you say vents is that or at least what I'd heard Maybe this is telling if this is wrong is that yours and expressing an assumption That it would let's say be okay if we had A dozen more face hammers Which chose to have basically one page list Of here's what we're doing with this house rules. We're making a real change here folks So so there's an assumption that that would be okay Because I had been I had basically heard there are a lot of people who thought that that was pretty devastating To the warmer fantasy 8th community because there was not coherence Yeah across tournaments. Yeah, my argument is there's a real simple way that'll get decided whether or not face hammers massive changes We're a good idea How many people go to their tournament and what's the response they get at the tournament? If the if you if they get a lower attendance and the people who show up I'll tell them I didn't like this They'll stop It's that easy they won't do that again But you so you don't have the assumption that like prima facie what they're doing is a bad idea Prima facie no prima facie what they're doing conceptually is not a bad idea Correct. Now specifically the choices they made may have been a bad idea. Does that make sense? Okay Because the one dude running fox is that doesn't ever gonna show up to this event right like Okay, uh real. Let me answer john castler real quick. What does the comp part mean? Are they house rules or altering standing rules to the game? The the general concept here behind community comp is you somebody like some body some group some whatever In the community gets together and says this is a set of additional rules Changes and restrictions. We're gonna lay on top of the existing rules That are you know, this is the game company doing it, right? That is like this is how we're going to change the game like this model's banned This you can bring this army gets 200 more points Whatever whatever. I don't care like there's lots of ways you could do it, right? And and and that we all suddenly accept that now To return back to your question tyler, right? Yeah, um the Their concept of creating heavy changes I am not innately against is what I am saying The specific changes that they made I don't like very much and think that they went way too heavy-handed on some armies and just left other problems completely Love some seemingly overwhelmingly obvious a.k.a arcane and yeah off the table So So like and this is the problem with it in general, right?  That's it. That's a smooth brain argument against it, right? That doesn't actually hold any water. Yes. It does pick new winners and losers. That's what we're doing here Yeah, right? I was trying to get rid of the current list of the theoretically small list of winners and make a broader set of winners, right? So like that's not an argument against it. I've never bought that. I think that's a bad faith argument, okay? So none of my argument relies on that The the the thing with face hammer was their changes are pretty heavy-handed and I don't think they were I don't think they are flush with reality That's my ultimate argument, right? But conceptually, I'm not against what they're doing Like you could have an individual to take a heavy-handed set of changes that were positive for their community Their meta and the termines they want to run A good example of this is steve herder and the holy events Steve has pretty heavy calm At holy havoc in the team tournament, you're not allowed to use special characters for their more than their foreign points or more I like that I'm a fan. That's because he's trying to present a very specific. It's a more narrative focused tournament It's what he's trying to do. There's like a specific story. He's trying to tell Yeah, right and he said a dirty word though that she said narrative gaming I understand but like steve runs a fantastic tournament and he has more people signing up for it every year Hmm people have voted in the meritocracy. They've said we like that this type of tournament exists. It's different Right and and we this group of people who go That is continuing to grow. We want to see it continue Yeah, right.  We introduced some schemes some different secondaries. It's not really that hard That there's an assumption. I'm here all the time that that is going to be Pretty strong net negative for the ecosystem for the community if we had that and that's kind of what I'm questioning If that yeah, I it will never get there because I think most the community There's a large part of the community that wants a fairly set of That wants a set of fairly standard tournaments run pretty close to the rules. Like that's the taste That's what the market has spoken to right and then it wants ancillary events that that are interesting and different The raws of the world the holy events of the world, right? That shoot a different type of player and that kind of thing like I think the market's already been pretty clear on this So, you know, I don't know that it would outright be a net negative Maybe it would maybe it wouldn't right if every time I went to a tournament I had to ingest like five pages of new Specific army changes it'd be like oh geez, but I I just yeah, I think that could be a negative, right? Yeah, but at the same time I just don't see that as being a reasonable way this is going to run Because I think people will just revolt and stop going to those events, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, right?  Why why do I when they're making like little models to represent like 12 dudes? It's like a table, right? You put onto the movement tray to be like, yeah So you don't have to buy all the models I'm like, so why are we comping this to make the make the unit sizes so big if you buy an extra stuff Because no one wants to buy the models from the company and then the game died And I'm like, I don't I don't need that in my life. There's other things I could be doing I could be playing games with my friends and not go into these weird tournaments And then having our own fun with decent enough base rules And I like the models and you know, there's there's more things and I'd need to get more invested And there needs to be more of a structure and if it's there's 60 70 different ways to play the game within an hour radius of me What you know, which one do I know is to me, right? If I disagree with 69 of the other ways and all of a sudden all my play Experiences are going to be non-existent But then if I'm trying to get 60 70 different rule sets Because each little club has their own thing or each state or each region or each set of tournaments That's that's a lot of free time. I don't have if this game is Generally viewed as you know, your your parents with young kids and have Orham you're lucky you get a game or two a month in that is a lot of investment Yeah, yeah, I mean no one's gonna have there's always the aos dad game You know challenge, right that this is a dad game the average player of age of sigmar is 35 years old with kids, right? Like I don't know that's true, but I know that's true.  Yes as we mentioned off camera. Yeah I'm not I'm not the standard. I'm not the I'm not the norm and I'm okay with that You're still like you're still with it certainly within the standard deviation that would lead to the average. Yes Yes, uh, yeah at any rate um Yeah, I see my youtube demographic too for my own videos. I know what y'all are out there like yeah, like I look at Yeah, I look at the this yeah, I feel like any of us who are on youtube We look at the it gives you an age breakdown of your stats and it's like, I know what bar is the biggest, right? Yeah So, uh, do cats count if you can't afford to have kids a hundred percent. I only have dogs kids are Got my dog. Yes. Um, but yes Uh, okay. I'm also older than that too by the by so there you go. Um All right, I won't tell anybody. I think we beat this one into the ground But There you go. Uh, there's my short discussion on comp hilarious Okay Well gentlemen, this has been a lot of fun. These are our thoughts on 3.0 so far after our experience I hope this is all helpful for everybody. Hey, if it was helpful, why don't you hit that like button? It's so easy and so nice and it makes my day when you do that I love seeing people hit like it makes me very and subscribe Yep, hit that subscribe hit bells. Click everything down there that seems reasonable for you to click You know, that's what I would like you to do. Yeah bells Description to like buttons all those kinds of things to start clicking stuff share stuff go nuts Uh, just just click all them buttons At any rate Rocco, absolute pleasure having you on the show brother Thanks for having me guys. This has been great. Hopefully I can come back.  There's my one curse I barely counts man You're good. You're good. You're still firmly in PG-13. You're okay. Wonderful. Wonderful Uh New says the little report flag. Okay. Don't hit that one. Not that one. Like I said, everyone down there that makes sense Uh, at any rate, thank you all so much for watching. We really appreciate it as always We'll see you next wednesday Bye With a new meeting type


Hyperparameter optimization is the problem of adjusting the high-level settings of an algorithm. For instance, in a neural network the values of the L1 and L2 regularizer constants, or the optimizer's learning rates. To be able to do this well, you have to be able to take a step back from this mechanism you used to train the low-level parameters of the model, the weights, and have another loop for training these higher-level parameters, these hyperparameters. I built evolutionary Powell's method for use as a hyperparameter optimization method as part of course 314 in the end-to-end machine learning curriculum. It's inspired by the original Powell's method, but it has a stochastic element inspired by evolutionary approaches. There's a Python implementation of the algorithm available in the Ponderosa optimization package, which is available under an MIT open-source license. The links to all of these resources are available through the post linked in the comments below. Evolutionary Powell's method tries to find the global minimum of a loss function, also known as a cost function or an error function, over a discrete space. That just means that each variable can only take on a finite number of unique values, usually a reasonably small number. It has a few main steps, which we'll illustrate by walking through the example in this animation. The loss function we'll be working with is a two-dimensional variant of a sink function. It has a single, very pronounced peak and several shoulder peaks and dips to either side of it. The code for creating this and running the test can be found in the GitLab project linked below. The optimizer actually tries to find the lowest point in the negative of this function, the global minimum, but for ease of visualization we'll flip everything upside down before we plot it, so it looks like we're trying to get to the top of the peak. Both x and y are allowed to take on 10 distinct values, between 0 and 3. This method can be applied to spaces with any number of dimensions, but a two-dimensional space like this gives us the richest visualization. Once we add in the error itself, we get a 3D visualization. So there are a few main steps to Evolutionary Powell's method. First, randomly select a few points and evaluate them. Number two, make a list of hyperparameters in random order. Three, choose a small number of previously evaluated points to be parents. This will be a random choice, but weighted by their performance, so that the points with the lowest error are more likely to be chosen. Four, for the first parent added, start at the top of the list of hyperparameters and look for a small number of un-evaluated child points along that dimension. Points that are identical to the parent that differ only in the value of that particular hyperparameter. If no children can be found, then check the next hyperparameter until they've all been tried. For each subsequent parent added, repeat this process but shift the list of hyperparameters by one so that a different hyperparameter is attempted first for each parent. Then evaluate all the children found and start again at step three. A little bit of background, this is a little like Powell's method where, starting from a single point, it finds the minimum along one dimension at a time. And the new best guess is moved iteratively to the new location of the minimum. There's a little bit more to it than that in the details, but those are the most relevant parts. Powell's method typically assumes smooth, continuously varying functions and seeks just to find the local minimum, so it, on its own, isn't a good fit for our hyperparameter optimization problem where we're looking for a global minimum in a discrete space. But it's at least nice in that it doesn't require differentiation and it manages a large number of dimensions gracefully. Evolutionary algorithms are the other basis for this method. If you have a high dimensional discrete space, evolutionary algorithms can be really useful. They don't have to assume anything about the smoothness of the function and they can be used as an anytime algorithm, meaning that you can interrupt them at any point and have a workable, best so far answer to get going with. Evolutionary algorithms are especially useful when there are way more points in the space than you can ever explore completely. They make the assumption that the lowest error points will have at least some traits in common with other low error points. In our case, that assumption is expressed as successful points will share at least some hyperparameter values. Choosing the most successful so far points as parents and varying one of their hyperparameter values to create children is a way to exploit this assumption. This is also where the similarity to Powell's method comes from. Exploring one dimension at a time starting from a high performing point looks a lot like the iterative one dimensional optimization that Powell's method performs. It's worth taking a detailed tour of the method step by step. The first thing we need to do is to choose a few points to start with. We don't want to assume anything about which dimensions are important or whether we prefer high or low values in each dimension. So the safest way to avoid systematic bias is to randomly choose a few points in our space. In this example, we show that we just start with two random points, but after playing around with the algorithm, experience suggests that two times the number of hyperparameters is a good number of points to start with. That tends to sprinkle its guesses across the space and gives a reasonably rich population of points to start from. Just to make sure our results aren't sensitive to the order in which we search the hyperparameters, we generate a shuffled list of them. Each hyperparameter represents one dimension in our space. We don't want to give one of them preferential treatment. Later, we'll also rotate through the list so that we start searching along a different dimension each time. From all the points we've tried and evaluated so far, we choose a few candidate parents. Right now this number is set to three in the code. We expect that high-performing, low-error points are likely to make the best parents, but we don't want to make that assumption too rigid. To allow room for accidental discovery, we randomly select our parents from the population, but we wait better performing points more heavily. We also want to avoid the pathological situation where there's one point that is very strong compared to all the rest, but because there are just so many of the others, it gets overwhelmed by their collective weights and never gets selected as a parent. To fix this, the weights of each point are calculated as the square of its normalized position between the highest error and the lowest error, resulting in weights that fall on the interval zero to one. Zero is the weight of the worst performing point, and one is the weight of the best. Then a random number is drawn from a uniform distribution, and the point with the next highest weight on the zero-one interval is the parent selected. This ensures that parents are selected with stratification based on their error rather than their relative prevalence. For the first parent selected, start with the hyperparameter at the top of the list we created in step two. Randomly select points along that dimension up to a maximum of a set fraction of all the possible values it can take. Right now this fraction is set to 30%. If at least one un-evaluated child is found for that parent, then stop evaluating potential parents for this iteration and move on. Each time through the child selection process for a new parent, rotate the list of hyperparameters to the right by one, so that what was the last dimension becomes the first, what was the first becomes the second, and so forth. That way each new child selection process starts looking along a different dimension. If no un-evaluated children are found along that dimension, try the next one on the list. Then if no un-evaluated children are found for that parent along any dimension, try the next parent. If no un-evaluated children are found for any of the parent candidates, then terminate the search. This is how evolutionary Powell's knows that it's done looking. This is a fairly conservative stopping criterion, especially for a high-dimensional space. For a parent to have no un-evaluated children means that a reasonable fraction of the space has been exhaustively explored. It's more likely that on optimization runs with many parameters, other constraints will cause the researcher to terminate the search before it runs its course, such as time or computing expense. If a new lowest error is found, update the best so far error and the best so far combination of hyperparameters. These will be available as a result if the algorithm is terminated before the next better solution is found. When all the pre-selected children are evaluated, return to step 3 and go through the child selection process again until no more can be found for the chosen parents. Here's the set of evaluated points after two iterations through this algorithmic loop. Already, it's found a relatively high-performing point. In the third iteration, it chooses a high-performing point, not the highest, and explores the x-axis to find a still better one. After a few more iterations, it can be seen that the mostly higher-performing points have been chosen as parents and they have generated children along both axes. By the time 30 points have been evaluated, the global optimum has been found. This is not too bad considering that there are 100 points in this space. We would expect random exploration to find the global optimum on average on its 50th point, so this is somewhat of an improvement. We would expect this benefit to be magnified in higher-dimensional spaces where the fringes occupy a larger and larger fraction of that space. After exploring about two-thirds of the space, the algorithm has been unable to find any un-evaluated children for the three parent candidates that selected this iteration and it terminates. If you look carefully, you may have noticed that the algorithm spent a lot of its evaluation effort on poorly performing points far from the optimum. If instead of choosing children randomly along one of the dimensions of its parent, the algorithm instead chose the nearest un-evaluated points, it might have found the best solution much faster. However, if faced with a loss function that was more choppy than this, such an approach might get stuck in a local minimum and fail to find a much better solution. The best approach to use depends on which problem we'll be solving. The no-free lunch theorem suggests that no optimizer is great at solving all optimization problems. The trick with choosing an optimizer is to place your bets on what type of problems you expect to be solving. Will a loss function be smooth? Convex? Bounded? Low dimensional? Discrete? Differential? Have loosely coupled dimensions? Depending on what you expect to find, you can tweak your optimizer to take advantage of those expectations. Just be prepared, if your assumptions are wrong, then your optimizer might fail badly. If you'd like to use evolutionary pals in your next project, I implemented it in the Ponderosa package, an open source collection of optimizers designed to be lightweight and easy to experiment with. The installation instructions and the code for this demo are available through the links below, and if you're curious about how to implement it, there's code for that at the link as well. I wish you lots of luck making your machine learning models the best they can possibly be with hyperparameter optimization.


Welcome to All Hands Update. I'm Petty Officer Andrew Johnson. These are your headlines from around the fleet. The Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group departed San Diego August 22nd for a scheduled deployment to the Western Pacific. More than 6,200 sailors aboard five ships will focus on maritime security in the region. The strike group will provide deterrence, promote peace and security, and preserve freedom of the seas. The top command at Naval Submarine Base New London was disestablished August 22nd during a ceremony aboard the Virginia-class attack submarine USS Missouri in Groton, Connecticut. Submarine Group 2 disbanded after 49 years to align with the organizational arrangement of submarines on the West Coast. Subgroup 2 provided oversight to submarine squadrons, waterfront maintenance, and five crews for submarines under construction.