Good morning and welcome to Moments with Melinda. I'm Melinda Moulton your host and my guest today is Mary Means. Mary, thank you for joining me. I know and it's such a delight because everything that's going on right now has pertained so much to your life's work. So let me share with my viewers a little bit about who you are. Mary Means is the retired owner of Mary Means and Associates, a small but mighty community planning firm that earned a strong reputation for building bridges between plans and people. Mary conceived the Main Street Project, which had the bold mission of demonstrating economic development within the context of historic preservation. This pilot project evolved into Main Street America. In 2021, Mary wrote Main Streets come back and how it can come back again. And the National Trust for Historic Preservation gave Mary the 2020 Louise DuPont Crown and Shield Award. And Mary is presently working on her memoir. Is that about right? That sounds quite good. So I also want to talk to you today about your life and working to help save downtowns. But I want my viewers to know that you and I met when we were serving on the Orton Family Foundation together. And we also just had a little bit of time together down in Washington, DC. And so, Mary, let's start with talking about you as an award-winning community planner. Let me turn this off. As an award-winning community planner and innovator. Oh, there we are. Okay. Are we back now? Good. Okay. So I want to talk to you about you are an award-winning community planner and innovator. And you sparked and inspired this movement in Main Street revitalization for nearly four decades. Can you share with my viewers a little bit about your childhood growing up and who inspired you to pursue this work? Wow, that's interesting. We're going to go way back a long way. Almost in the 19th century. That's why I grew up in Atlanta when my father was a classical architect, meaning that he might as well have been born in the 18th century. He had a very innate sense of classical proportion. We thought that the last decent design he's done about 1852 is a pretty rigid opinion. My mom was a nurse. I grew up with good childhood in Georgia. I can remember when he asked me things that might have influenced my path. First of all, I could my father do. But I can distinctly remember about age 11 or so. Going to Mr. Fisk's Toy Store. This place on Peachtree Street at 10th Street in Atlanta. And mom would kind of park us there while she went shopping for groceries next door. And Mr. Fisk treated me and my brother and sister. They were all little, like the customers that we were. And he really respected our opinions. He would let us informally have lay a way so we couldn't afford the 75 cent toy that we needed that week. So when I come back a week or two later and get it. And I think it was embedded in me is this is my image of small businesses and how distinctly different they are from the businesses that are networked or operating as part of remote ownership. So that was part of what got me into this. And when I was hired by the National Trust and start preservation in 1973, to go out and open the first, the second of the National Trust regional offices. This one was free in Chicago to cover the Midwest, loving the Western States. And I said, what am I supposed to do? That's my job. And they essentially said, we're gonna make historic preservation happen in the Midwest. Great. So I did it out to do this. I'd not go to college in the Midwest, but that's about all I knew about. And then when a matter of a year or so of driving around the Midwest and not speaking, meeting with a very, very clutching preservation, was able to move into these small organizations that were found at the last night to save at Orthouse or something. Thank you. But one of the things I noticed is he based on what is one was there wasn't anything historic in the Midwest. That's what an investor would start. When I would try to talk to them about the beautiful start building in their town, most people would say, there's nothing historic here. It's just old. Historic is Boston and Charleston. But it's not here. And yet, we're coming up with a bicentenary. So I knew that we were not going to be able to sell preservation as the architecturally defined quality that the National Trust and other preservation folks in the 1970s and really, because it just wasn't going to fly in the practical midwives. You can't tell me that's historic. It's just an old building that's falling down. We need to focus. That was one string. I was having a hard time convincing people that it was anything historic. And the second negotiation I made was in addition to really manual buildings like Orthouse and City Halls and things like that, there was also this undisputed or noticed ensemble of buildings, they were kind of ordinary buildings, but together they were something special. And that was the downtown, the main streets of nearly all of these smaller communities. They were being severely impacted by highway construction, there were bypasses around them or shopping centers that were coming in nearby, and then the businesses were trying best to keep it correct. But it was a real struggle and the towns were in danger of kind of losing their form. And it didn't look like anybody was doing anything to reverse this or slow it down. So that's what first got me interested in, not just preservation, but in doing something that you weren't doing yet, because whatever we were doing wasn't working right now. Fascinating.  No, I think I realized that when you get a subconscious, my dad, when we were in vacations, kids, we tried to go to someplace that had a historic character.  My mom would make sure that it's kid things to be there too. We certainly found Bourbon Street be fascinating to kids in the way that I think my mother appreciated. But I think subconsciously I learned that there were places that were not like suburban Atlanta and small and places that had a tight sense of proportion and reclusive places to be. And I did not know what Bourbon design and landscape architecture was at the time. I just realized it was attractive to places like that. When I got out of grad school, I was very fortunate in being hired by the National Registry of Historic Places, which is only about three years old at the time. And it was very little on it. But that people were beginning to nominate on historic sites and places all over the country. If something became listed on the National Registry, it was protected a great deal from the Federal Civil wiser. Anything that's going to use federal money to alter democracy has to go through a special review process. And that definitely through a monkey wrench and the threads of the bulldozer, but really everything on a large scale at that time had federal funds involved in it. So I realized that these buildings would fall right in line. And these places of character that I love were in danger. I wasn't ready to be an academic historian or to sit at a desk and make decisions about historic buildings. I really had a more activist sense of agency. And I realized that my interest in heritage places and architecture and my interest in doing something about it and making the difference combined and where in this sort of preservation, you know, there was at that time. And that's what led me to it. I later realized that a lot of what I have learned in helping communities find their common interest in a mainstream and doing something about it would be applied to larger grouping groups over similar kinds of things like a plan for a town or a plan for a downtown. So when I left the preservation field and the clinic was open, that's what I worked in was community planning, not just for main streets, sometimes it was for a university that was trying to expand its campus and running into problems with the neighbors. And sometimes it was from whole regions that were drawn from the competitive. But what the thing, for all of it together, was they needed to be able to come from the ground, grab the common sense of direction, and then be able to work together to implement it. And I was pretty good at that. So that's why we did things small but mighty. Let's let's talk for a second, Mary, about the impact of COVID on downtowns and how so many downtowns are still suffering from that input put and that impact of that pandemic, because so many people ended up purchasing stuff online. So we got used to doing that. And do we really need to drive into downtown to go shopping. And also a lot of people began working from home and doing what you and I are doing right now zoom. So the office spaces were empty. And now a lot of businesses are allowing people to work remotely. So talk to me about the effect of COVID on the strength and endurance of our downtowns. Well, the immediate effect of it, I was just in the final stages of writing my book, Main Streets from Death. When the pandemic closed everything in the world, certainly everything in the United States, every business closed down, we all went indoors. We had no idea how long it was going to last or what it was. And my part just turned over. It's like, I've run a small business. I know about cash flow. They're not going to survive this. What has been happening? But within a few weeks, places, particularly the places that had mainstream organizations, and have been working on keeping their downtowns lively for years, were able to help their merchants get online, or to find ways of dealing with those to advocate on their behalf with the Crown government's got allowing alcohol to be sold and delivered at home and things like that for restaurants. So the immediate thing was surprised that we survived even the first few weeks of the pandemic. And delighted to see how well adapting the Main Street communities were in terms of the need to help their local businesses. Let's fast forward as we all became much more that at what we're doing now, while having meaning for conversations and making decisions and things like that, remotely, from overnight, we were sort of advanced 10 years, probably technologically, and grandparents who'd never known how to find anything, all of a sudden, we're living on Zoom or on Microsoft Teams. And that just changed everything. It allowed people to work at home. Where there was broadband internet access, I have to say, because there were lots of votes, you can say, let me continue this way. No, the whole country doesn't have broadband. It might soon, there's been a significant investment in it recently, I can also spawn bother by the pandemic. But once we've learned that we could work from home, a couple of things happen, I don't speak alone, it's positive. But yes, you're right. A lot of central business districts, particularly in larger cities have been hollowed out, because so many of the office buildings, now a bar fewer workers, and they're on irregular schedules. And they have been the traffic that supported businesses and people in restaurants and coffee shops and things. So there's been a real domino effect of its impact on on downtown San Juan City. But I think the other part of that is what we were seeing within 2020 and 2021, was people in larger cities saying, really, I can work remotely, I can work remotely from a small town in Iowa, that has really good schools, a decent cultural life. And it's the and the housing is, you know, 30% of what we're paying here in Chicago or someplace else. So we saw a number of remote workers who could relocate their families to some of the smaller communities. And that really ultimately helped these small communities return to health. Now, in the larger cities, we almost developed the downtown that will respond. We didn't realize I think at the time, we put all the chicks in one spot, we put all of the major office buildings and things in larger cities in the central business district. And there wasn't the kind of diverse uses and diverse times a day, if we might be able to pass it down. So all of a sudden, that's just me. It's coming back. I live in the Washington, DC area. And it's getting better. But one of the reasons it's getting better, is the federal government is working with the District of Columbia government about what they're going to do with getting workers back or bringing up some of the space to be leased out to others and other uses when they work. Not everyone, by the way, not everyone is shopping online. I have to confess, I shop online here. But I also, and many people do this, I really want to feel the fabric, see the cell phone, whatever. So we go into, we tend to also go in and there are a number of places, even Amazon has been open brick and mortar stores around the country. And you're seeing the shift in how retailing is done, that's the ability to move to market. But isn't all necessarily heading to remote shopping completely? No, that's very true. Well, since our audience is Vermont centric, I'm going to talk to you a little bit about what you see as the answer to the amount of homelessness and drug use plaguing our downtowns. Just last week, seven days, did a story highlighting the blighted sites in the city, where graffiti is rampant and the effects of social systems breaking down, where drug use and homelessness has taken over really many of our downtowns. But in Burlington, we are really struggling with this. As we speak right now, and there are people, when you talk about going downtown who say, no, I don't want to go back to Burlington because I don't feel it's safe. Now, I'm not saying that that's the case for me. And I'm actually going to be working on a commentary, which is why I'm so excited to be talking to you, Mary. But these small downtowns are feeling the effects of the social fabric in our country that's really being torn apart. Well, it's really true that it would seem when you go into many older cities, that this is the case, that there's far more visible homelessness for un-challenged people. Many of them have pretty obvious mental issues that are not being treated. And they look dangerous, they can look dangerous. Sometimes the blood problem that is real in there, sometimes it's a perception problem. But the perception, as Adonis pointed out, perception often is more important than the truth or it may not be. But I want to get back to the main street movement and talk a bit with this. But it can't solve the issue of we have not been building housing that has been able to be supported by people who are making a very high income in many, many years. And this is not just in New York City, it's a problem across the country. And the second part of that is, of course, is it's only recently that mental health was even considered a health issue that's made eligible in some insurance programs. So we've neglected areas of housing and areas of health, mental health. For such a long time, there's a lot of catchment to do. And I just pleased to see the current administration making bold investments across the board in some of these issues, including investing in broadband, which is going to open up great human potential, and investment in mental health care, and in housing, particularly investment in housing, create housing that isn't just a single family model, it's market grade. And oftentimes, a lot of our historic buildings are turned are torn down for housing, but we'll get into that in a minute. You yesterday, I went to the National Trust for Historic Preservation National Conference at the awards presentation. And I was stunned to see the number of awards that are being given and recognized for converting an old wheel building into housing or converting, is that the other end of housing? How many of them are being done as a combination, mixed income or low income housing? You look at the end of the historic buildings, they've always been, but they're housing dozens and dozens and hundreds of families. That's outstanding. I know they did that in my hometown of Allentown, which is the whole Bethlehem Steel complex, been turned into housing and mixed use. And there's still so much more of that facility, miles of that facility that are being worked on. So now let's talk a little bit about your incredible book, which, Mary, congratulations on your book. Its main streets come back and how it can come back again. And I encourage my Vermont viewers, especially community leaders and people involved in some of these organizations that can help our beautiful Queen City to get a copy. And I'm assuming it's available in local bookstores, I'm sure, and you can probably get it online, but always check with your local bookstore and order it there first. So As I said in the book, of course, you can order it from the obvious sources, but one of them is your local independent bookseller who can get it easily for you. That's right.  I'll bet they get this book for you folks. So you do mention Vermont a few times in your book. And you talk about the demolition of the downtown in Winnowsky, which every time I drive into that city, you know, you can't help but wonder, you know, what happened to that city. And I really agree with you. But I want you to talk about the resilience of downtowns to rebound. And I don't believe many in this country feel that this is going to happen. I think there's a lot of a Malay and a Paul around this. And there is a feeling of desperation as we are seeing more and more businesses move from downtowns out to the suburbs. Can you talk to us a little bit about that, Mary? Well, many things are different in Vermont. I haven't really noticed a lot of things moving out suburbs, but as strong as it was in the 70s and 80s. But when we go back to we're talking about Vermont and smaller communities there. And one of the things that came out of not much that was greatly positive came out of the pandemic. But one thing that did was we had an amazing test inadvertently of the ability of communities to recover from the disaster. They were able the communities that had very active mainstream organizations or downtown and corporate districts and staff and boards and volunteers were able to pivot a lot more quickly and help their people adapt and recover and help the community begin to actively support the businesses and the residents of all downtowns. So the fact is that the pandemic kind of identified for us this invaluable use of these organizations in downtowns as what the urbanist group's past calls regenerators, a regenerate somebody's going to have to rebuild after whatever disaster strikes and it's been established a level across a level of experience or working with each other in some of these organizations that can be tapped for wider use when inevitable crises will arise having to be climate or another pandemic or whatever. And Vermont is a wonderful and lawful profession. It's a wonderful woman named Mindy Fulilov who is a social psychiatrist. I've been called a civic shrink but Mindy Fulilov is actually a civic shrink. She has studied the way communities and sort of the organizing of community and people are able to work together and not work together all over the place and she does a wonderful contrast between Vermont's quicker coverage from flooding a number of years back and the struggle posed standard hurricane Sandy in New Jersey in New York in the absence of the kind of community cohesion that Vermonters seem to have. We're not waiting for the rescue three. We figured a way to hack our way across that flooded screen and get to the other side. That didn't happen in other parts of the country. Yeah Vermont does have these incredible organizations and community spirit and soul. But we are struggling and certainly Montpelier was devastated by the most recent flood and they're going to have to figure out how to rebuild. But businesses have moved out of Burlington and they're moving into Essex Junction. They're moving out to Williston and so but I want to let you know that I and a whole bunch of other people work very hard to save our memorial auditorium which is the gateway to Burlington and it was being considered for demolition by the existing administration. Now there's a housing project that's being proposed in that area and with that building and I and I very much believe they will protect that building.  Macy's Macy's which we fought the Burlington Business Association when I was chair we had a great great board and we fought to get a downtown department store and we got Macy's. Well Macy's left downtown when the mall was shut down and that building was vacant until the high school moved in because of toxins at the high school which the high school needed to be torn down so now the high school moved into Macy's but we lost our major department store. So millions were also invested in the renovation of City Hall Park but folks are avoiding the park because of what's going on in the park with a lot of drug use and things like that. So they're and the whole thing about to defund the police which I'm which I know a lot of people are you know on both sides of that that discussion but there's been a lot you know sort of an uptick in crime. So there's a lot of social issues that are pushing this forward but Mary do you believe that we can protect and save our downtowns if we do not first deal with mental illness drug addiction poverty and homelessness? Well I think we have to do all of it at once. A little bit of motion on all of it you can't ignore it because you mentioned these are huge factors and they're huge factors in people's trust that downtowns are safe places to be. These are all places to be. I'm wondering with things like your park when people are saying it's not safe to go there. To me parks and big public open spaces need constant programming organized activities and things stuff that draws people to them and by the presence of a number of people make it safer by the being more more it's only neglected places where bad things happen for the most part because there aren't enough eyes on the street that James Jacobs would say. So I think there's going to there's a whole lot of communities to do more to make there a reason a new reason to be downtown to be together. I want to return to the Macy's point of mind. There's been a really a great deal of restructuring in the entire way we buy things and department stores used to be the anchors for traditional downtowns. There are no more department stores were all expensive purposes these days. Who would ever thought that Main Street would survive when shopping centers are being closed? My favorite is one in Shreveport, Louisiana that's been turned into a mega church. The entire selling church I know with no parking problem. They've got the whole thing as their parking lot. But I digress. So it isn't a matter of just lamenting that Macy's closed. Macy's is closed just about everywhere. And the next question is what kind of active uses can be brought in that can work off of each other and be there? And downtown housing is very definitely one of those. There are a number of department stores that have been converted into housing. I saw an example of it given an award by the National Trust yesterday. It actually was reused as the offices of a regional health organization that brought 700 jobs right into the downtown all working locally. So here's the customers there for all the businesses. I can't give you a four point solution for dealing with the issues that the towns and cities are working with right now. Let me say the first thing that needs to happen is we've got to stop avoiding dealing with issues of housing and issues of mental health and start treating those. I think it's unfortunate the term we fund the police. But I very much believe in the idea of investing investing in the prevention of a lot of this by getting into root issues of mental health. And investing in smart justice. I mean the project is really smart justice. Now do we reallocate our funding to support mental health in our policing? And I honor our police and our justice folks. All in all, I mean Burlington is still winning all these awards. The best place to raise a kid, the best place to go to school. I mean it's still getting all these awards and a lot of this is perception.   I just want to let you know that myself and a couple of historians are working on a Burlington history and cultural center. And so much of your work is about people learning and understanding culture. So I wanted to let you know that that's happening and I know that my team would love to talk to you. And then I wanted to ask you, Mary, as we're kind of coming to the end of our interview, do you believe that schools are doing enough to educate our young about the importance of place, our humanities, community, and human experience during a time when hate groups are rising and the rule of law in our own democracy is being challenged? Talk to us about your vision of the future of this country, Mary, and how you see us moving through these deeply difficult and challenging times for the last few running out of time. That's a pretty big one. It is a big one but do you feel like there should be more education of our youth about the importance of culture in our communities? It's really enlightening going to the National Cross Conference yesterday. As one of the winners of the award is the school in New Orleans, November 1960, the first desegregation. There were three very brave first graders who endured a gauntlet of angry, vicious white feet as they daily went to school where everyone else was boycotting in school. These three little girls were there. For those three little girls are grown women now, that school building had been boarded up for a long time and was facing demolition. They organized and it brought it back as a history and cultural center and they were there yesterday to receive the award for doing this and one of them said our people everyone needs to know the story of America and America isn't all the polyam Fourth of July stuff. It's got a very troubled history but until we acknowledge that our history it's going to be pretty hard to include it through you. And as a person who's trained in history and I've been a educational historian I guess all my life I couldn't agree more. It's there's such a need for knowing knowing who we are all of us and knowing the good and the bad of all of us and coming out of it so that we can work together. So I'm I'm part of the optimistic and I think one has to be the possible is the last thing that should leave you because if you don't have hope you might as well just not exist. So I'm hopeful that we're going to see some progress and I've certainly seen a lot of it in the years since the pandemic last past year. And I have great I have great hope in our youth too and so I just want to let you know that we did get Amtrak to Burlington so now we have to do that. Right. Certainly Biden's infrastructure bill is bringing a lot of money into the state as you drive down the roads are closed and getting fabulous and again I am so excited about your book Mary and to my viewers it's main streets come back and how it can come back again by Mary means I suggest you get it and read it it's easy to read with great photographs and if you're curious about how we can help our downtowns in Vermont Mary's got a lot of great ideas and thoughts and I'm going to definitely be bringing this to my board for our Burlington history and cultural museum. You're a great publicist for me and I appreciate that. I love Mary I've loved your work since I first met you back at the Yorton Family Foundation and and the main street award the main street project was your vision you were the one who who really spearheaded going into these these towns and helping them to understand that that that they were great and we needed to protect them and you were a leader in that and well I will have to say well I didn't know what I put time and I think how I understood how crazy it was to say this little historic preservation organization can tackle the revitalization of the town's centers if I don't know how hard that was I probably wouldn't have started it but there's nothing like when I even did it you to say let's try something and we'll see if it works and if it doesn't work they've been telling us it wouldn't all along so no fault no loss but it didn't work and I had no idea that it would survive and thrive the way it has so it was 45 years and you and you have helped transform our country in such a such an incredible way Mary and you've and you've been recognized for that I I always believe in the power of naivete I say if you don't know it then you will create it and so sometimes the less you know the better things turn out so Mary I want you to come back to Vermont and to meet my group Elise and Gail who are working on our history and culture museum and I want to thank you for all that you have done for our country to help bring back our small downtowns and the work that you're going to continue to do probably through the rest of your life to ensure that that your work continues I want to thank you for that and thank you for being my friend well it's a joy to be your friend and I I love Vermont and I would love to come and see what you're doing do anything I can to help it help against it thank you so much for today thank you my dear and we will be in touch soon have a good day to my viewers and I will see you shortly bye bye


Mae'r next item of business is a debate on motion 9463, in the name of Michael Marra, on a resilience fund for CalMac disruption. I'd be grateful if members wished to speak in the debate where to press their request to speak buttons, and I call on Michael Marra to speak to and move the motion up to six minutes, please. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I'll move the motion in my name. The motion that we've put forward today has a simple ask of this Government to establish a resilience fund for businesses affected by disruption and withdrawal of ferry services. How green and SNP members voted decision time tonight will be a clear signal as to whether they accept responsibility for their catastrophic failure of our island communities and whether they will take a small action to begin to make amends. However, this failure has been 16 years in the making, but it is destroying livelihoods and communities today. The figures are damming. From May 2022 to April 2023, the Malegloch Boysdale route suffered 79 diverted sailings, 142 late sailings and 296 cancelled ferries. More than one in four of all scheduled sailings never left the harbour. With news of yet more cancellations this month, the situation is to quote Alasdair Allan MSP abysmal. The consequences of these failures are devastating for islanders, with estimates that local businesses are losing close to £50,000 per day. In an already difficult climate of high energy and fuel costs coupled with soaring inflation, businesses cannot afford further financial hardship. In between October 2021 and March 2023, CalMac paid £4.54 million in financial penalties, but where did those penalties go? The First Minister said last week that the money was reinvested back into the resilience of the network and the Government's amendment this afternoon reiterates that claim, but what is the resilience that they speak of? Hardly a week goes by without further announcements of delays and cancellations as the network rusts and breaks and the two ferries sit in port under construction in the west of Scotland. Their incompetent approach is not arresting decline or incentivising better performance, precisely the opposite. CalMac bosses know that the money is being shuffled around, yet another SNP accountancy trick. In truth, island residents and business owners are the only ones to experience a true financial penalty as their livelihoods are destroyed. The idea of a resilience fund did not originate from those benches. It began in our island communities when residents of south-us gathered in droves to protest the withdrawal of yet more ferry services. Scottish Labour has spoken with business owners across the Western Isles and their position could not be clearer. One business owner told us that the impact on her business was catastrophic and far exceeds the impact from the global pandemic. With this Government, it is, I am afraid, a case of out of sight out of mind. If 185,000 people or a third of Edinburgh's population was protesting outside the Parliament now, we know that the Government would have to listen. When a third of south-us's population turned out to protest, the Government pays no heed whatsoever. No wonder that the owner of a catering company in south-us told us that we have lost all faith in the Scottish Government to be able to improve the situation. That faith in government was not lost overnight. It is the result of 16 years of willful neglect of this SNP Government, which leaves our islands facing an existential threat. That incompetence has consequences. Under the SNP, the vital infrastructure of Scotland's ferry services is reaching collapse. A litany of policy failures on infrastructure, connectivity, housing, education, fishing and more are leading to an exodus from our islands, particularly of young people who see no option for their future in the place they call home. The research paper The Gallic Crisis in the Vernacular community, published in 2020, issued stark warnings about the future viability of the Gallic language and culture beyond the next 10 years, in the face of an ageing population in island communities. The paper highlighted that, I quote, the retention of young people and young families willing to contribute to community vitality will be central to any credible strategy of revitalisation. How can we expect young people to stay in areas where they will be increasingly isolated and financially penalised? The very existence of Scotland's ancient language and culture relies on the economic viability of our island communities. Today, it is abundantly clear that the SNP cannot be trusted with the protection of Scotland of who we are and where we come from. They are eternally distracted, obsessed with press over policy, dissembling over delivery and have utterly failed our islanders. Are SNP and green members listening? Have they heard the cries of despairs from our communities who rely on these services? I see some members in the chamber who represent them directly today. Will you heed their calls for help? Given the Government's position today, you must put aside blind loyalty to the most amendment that they have tabled, and that loyalty to a failing incompetent leadership and do right by your constituents. Have you heard their voices and will you act? I now call on Mary McCallan to speak to and move amendment 9463.2, up to five minutes, cabinet secretary. Thanks, Presiding Officer. Before beginning, I should just like to welcome Fiona Hyslop to post. She's bringing an enormous amount of experience to this role and I'm really pleased to be working with her as team transport. On the matters in hand, I want to begin with a clear and unequivocal acknowledgement of the importance of the matters being debated today. For Scotland's island communities, ferries are not just a mode of transport, they are lifeline services, bringing food, vital supplies and supporting economic activity. It follows then that these matters are not just about the improvement of transport service performance, it's about delivering confidence that's needed to sustain our island populations and ensure that people and businesses can thrive. In so far as Michael Marra rehearsed those points, I agree with him. However, as I said recently in the chamber, following protests in South US, I will not prevaricate about the strain that is currently being felt in the network. Ongoing technical issues with vessels have resulted in delays to the annual overhaul programme, and cancellations of sailings have been the result of that. Regrettably, there are communities who have been more impacted by others, and I absolutely recognise the need to improve CalMac's reliability and rebuild confidence in services. I'll briefly give way, but I've got a lot I'd like to get through. Paul Sweeney. There are other fleets with similar advantages that operate with much greater resilience than in the CalMac fleet. Why is there not a proper total preventive maintenance system in place to ensure greater resilience of the fleet? I think that coming on the back of my full recognition of the need to improve CalMac's reliability and rebuild confidence in the fleet should let him know that, to some extent, I agree that there is work to be done. I deeply regret that island communities need to have not always been met by CalMac services, that communication from them has not always been sufficient and has not always been timious. I do not just want to regret that. I want to have a plan of action for how the Government can do all that we can, all that is practicable, all that is in our gift to bolster reliability of the network. As I see it, there are two principal parts of that. One is the action that we can take in the here and now to alleviate disruption in what is undeniably a period of pressure. The second part of that for the Government is on making that period of pressure as short as possible by bolstering and adding to the numbers of vessels in the fleet. I want to use the time that I have today to set out what the Government is doing against both those objectives. On the here and now, last week, I met the chief executive of CalMac and my first question to CalMac management was how it intended to respond to the protests on South US. Communication and presence in communities is, I think, we all know as politicians, absolutely essential. If it is very brief, I will. The chamber would be interested to know how the Government is going to respond to the demonstrations in South US rather than how CalMac. Once again, I have just started to address those two aspects of the Government's plan on what we will do in our gift to address that. I am not shying away at all from actions that the Government needs to take, and I am happy to narrate them now. On the back of that meeting, I was very pleased to see that Mr Drummond visited South US and met residents. That follows a similar visit from the former Minister for Transport in late May and a visit that our new transport minister recently made in her committee capacity and those that I expect to make over the summer. As well as communication, CalMac management and I discussed the route prioritisation metric, which CalMac uses to assess options to maintain lifeline connections when there is disruption in the network. I ask that they urgently consider that route prioritisation matrix, making sure that it is fit for purpose and capable of taking into account cumulative impact and that cumulative impact on fragile island communities. I expect the outcome of that in short order. This morning, I was pleased to meet with the Ferry's community board. The board has community representatives from our islands and, in my view, is utterly invaluable as a source of lived experience. I strongly believe that CalMac and the Scottish Government should listen very carefully to what they have to say. I certainly intend to. That is the response that we are undertaking here and now. This motion is about compensation. I really do not have time. I am afraid that I am exceptionally short. We have a contract in place with CalMac through which we are able to make penalty deductions when performance is not met. Through that contract, penalties of between £1 million and £3 million per year have been recovered. Michael Marra questioned where that funding has been directed. He needs only to look at the MV Alfred, which is currently providing resilience on the Arran route. That was part funded by those deductions at a cost of £9 million. It was part funded by the deductions. It is providing resilience in the fleet. I understand that that is exactly what islanders want most of all. I must ask the cabinet secretary to conclude that we are very tight for time. With that, I will leave it there. I hope that my colleague, the minister for small business, will cover any other points. I am afraid that I did not hear any kind of plan there. I thank Labour for bringing the debate to the chamber and will support their motion, of course. I move the amendment in my name. In March, I welcomed Kevin Stewart to his new role as transport minister. He was just minutes into the job. I am getting a bit of an echo when I speak here. It is certainly the case that I am content with what I can hear in terms of the audible sound. Mr Stewart was just minutes into the job when I asked him an urgent question about what the Government was doing to restore ferry services between Malig, Oban and Loch Boysdale in South Hewist in light of the announcement that the services were to be withdrawn from 5 April to 13 May. He talked about recognising the challenges being faced and said that the islands remained open for business. I then asked him if he would look at a compensation scheme and reduced fares for islanders. He said that he would be speaking to CalMac that day and seek mitigations and solutions. Alasdor Allen had another go on the idea of a business resilience fund, and he did slightly better. The minister said that he would need to consider it further, which is not quite a commitment. Douglas Ross raised exactly the same issue last week, because three months on, things are no better. In fact, they are worse, with salings of the envy Lord of the Isles between Malig and Loch Boysdale cancelled until the end of June. Locals, as we have heard, who protested in their hundreds, have said that CalMac is ushering in modern-day highland clearances. CalMac uses something called a matrix to decide which services to run when there are problems, which is quite a lot of the time. John Daniel Petterana of the South Hewist business ferry impact group, which organised the demonstration, said of the matrix. It is as vague and wooly as you can get, and that is what they use to make decisions. It is hot air. We think that it is commercially better for them to do this. He went on. The matrix should look at the cultural and economic impact, but I cannot make any sense of the rubbish that has been written. We need an explanation of what it means. It is like the highland clearances again. CalMac's chief executive, Robbie Drummond, has been meeting islanders this week. Mr Drummond had a taste of what they are going through when he reportedly could not get his car on the ferry and travelled a very long way around to get there. If it was Lorna Slater, she would have just chartered a boat. Mr Drummond has promised a review of the matrix. We have heard that the cabinet secretary will do the same today. The upshot is this. People on the islands are suffering because of mismanagement of our ferries under the SNP. The Government owns Seymal, which buys the boats and owns them. It also owns CalMac, which runs the ferries. Sitting above them is Transport Scotland and whoever is Minister of the day. The Government even owns the yard, which is building two new ferries eventually. There is no-one else to blame. The Government is responsible, so when people are out of pocket because of them, they should be compensating them. It really is that simple. Right now, island life is being made a misery, so the Government's amendment is quite shameful. It removes all mention of the compensation scheme. Any islander watching today will be furious. They are being let down, and now they are being ignored, so support my amendment and reject the Government's amendment. I am pleased to note that transport has been restored to Cabinet level, and it should never have been removed. I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome Fiona Hyslop to her new role as Transport Minister. I thank Michael Marra for bringing this important debate in motion to the chamber this afternoon. Scottish Liberal Democrats will be supporting it at decision time, as well as the Conservative Party amendment. It is the right thing to do to compensate islanders who have been left high and dry as a consequence of their lifeline ferry service failing to meet their needs. The motion calls for resilience funding for compensation to come from penalties imposed on CalMac for breaches of its contract with Transport Scotland. The images of hundreds of people earlier this month in South US protesting about CalMac's decision to cancel most ferry sailings to Malag for the remainder of June will be a lasting image of the frustration at the Scottish Government's self-inflicted ferry fiasco. The thinking seems to be that the impact can be measured in numbers.  When, in fact, the opposite is true, there is a disproportionately large impact on smaller communities. The missed hospital appointments, the missed weddings, the missed funerals, the loss of income when accommodation providers find bookings are cancelled because visitors cannot get to the islands or retailers have no stock, the threat to the island way of life. I welcome reports that CalMac will review their route prioritisation matrix, but the cynic in me would suggest that they are only doing so now because the islander's demonstration hit national headlines. There is much that must be done to repair the damage and the trust. The hundreds protesting in South US, as Michael Marra observed, would equate to 180,000 people in Edinburgh if comparable numbers of cars were parked nose to tail to show disappointment at transport decisions affecting their lives. In the capital here, the Government would not be able to ignore the chaos. The scale of protests in South US show the strength of feeling, that feeling of being isolated, trapped even, the sense of injustice from businesses facing losses, the anger at hearing the company at the heart of those issues is getting yet more taxpayer cash. There is a sense that the Scottish Government and Transport Scotland do not fully understand the needs of islanders and the critical connectivity, that interdependency. The SNP Green Government needs to look beyond the central belt. Island communities feel as though they have been abandoned. A depopulation is a serious concern in Scotland's islands and rural areas. The handling of this ferry fiasco and the lack of accountability by the Government shows the concerns of islanders are distant to ministers. We face collapse of communities in island areas if ferries are not operating and services are not improved. The response to the situation has shown that the Government's response to depopulation is lip service at best. What is needed is long-term thinking about the ferry fleet capacity and resilience. A rolling plan for the replacement of old ferries, innovation in the build and needed functions and a move away from thinking that impacts on island populations will be small. Islands and those who live there are very much part of Scotland, geographically, culturally, socially.  It is critical that we get transport connectivity right, whether ferries, buses or, dare I say, tunnels, and everything else will fall into place. We move to the open debate, and I call Neil Bibby to be followed by Alasdair Allan. I welcome this important debate and I speak in support of my Labour colleague, Michael Marra's motion. As Michael Marra said, Scotland's islanders are right to be angry, dismayed and frustrated because they simply do not have the ferry service they need or deserve. They have been failed and they have been let down. Given this and the recent and damaging disruption to island businesses in particular, it is only right that those businesses receive the compensation they need and deserve at this time. It is little wonder that we have seen recent protests on South East, and we also know that anger and frustration is held in other islands across Scotland, including in Arran, in my own West Scotland region. I have spoken to businesses, particularly food producers, who are in despair. Delays to ferries cost them thousands of pounds a day and could cost jobs in the long term. However, let us not talk about the key issue. Why are we here? The number one reason, the main reason by far why islanders do not have a reliable ferry service is because CalMac does not have a reliable ferry fleet. In addition to it being unreliable, it is an ageing fleet with 38 per cent of vessels over 30 years old and over the recommended lifespan for a ferry. This flies in the face of what the First Minister claimed last week about the SNP's investment in ferries, so let us look at the outcomes. Over the SNP's time in office, only six ferries have been built in 16 years. Compare that to 10 ferries that were built by the previous Labour Liberal Democrat Government. In half that time, eight years, 10 in eight years, even Margaret Thatcher's Government built more new CalMac ferries than this current Government. Your record is shameful. There is plenty of blame to go round here for this whole ferries fiasco, but the Scottish Government cannot blame anyone else for that. It is abject failure to provide new ferries. It cannot blame CalMac for that. It certainly cannot blame the Ferguson's workforce for that. It cannot blame the previous Government for their failures to provide decent ferries for our islands. Given that this is the Government's fault, then the least that this Government can do is now adequately compensate island businesses whose futures are at risk and at real risk. It is time for the Government to take responsibility. I say this because it appears day in, day out that the Government is desperate not to take responsibility and to deflect blame elsewhere. To be clear, Sea Mall and CalMac are not entirely blameless, but it is not their job and it is certainly not the job of their workers when dealing with angry passengers to take the flack for this Government's overall procurement failure. The project Neptune report has been part of this deflection strategy. I do believe that we need to look at how best Governments and structures work and how we best run our ferries, but it cannot and must not distract us from the fact that this Government has not built enough ferries. One clear commitment in relation to project Neptune from the former transport minister was to rule out privatisation. It is hard to see how the current situation could be made worse, but privatisation of CalMac would do that. That is something that should be ruled out by the new transport minister, too. In terms of taking responsibility, I wish the new transport minister, Fiona Hyslop and the new transport secretary, Manavik Allen, well, as I do Kevin Stewart. I say to Neil Gray last week that the ministerial merry-go-round needs to stop. There was a time when ministers could not get down to Ferguson's quick enough for a photo-op and now ministers cannot wait to get ferries out of their portfolio and to buy themselves time with nice platitudes. Real responsibility would be a Government minister standing up on this to the chamber and staking their reputation on fixing this mess and saying that they will not leave until the job is done. Because of the current fiasco, we face a situation in which our ferry network is in crisis and we are having to build ferries in Turkey. We are very tight for time, Mr Bibby, so I must ask you to think what to do. In closing, one word from the Government means nothing and do nothing for alien communities unless the Government is willing to put its money where its mouth is and establish a proper resilience fund to compensate businesses. Presiding Officer, we all know and we've rehearsed today quite rightly the problems facing the CalMac network. There are not enough ships, the ships that are there are aging, they are breaking down more often and those repairs are taking longer. CalMac, once very much considered part of the fabric of life in the islands, does risk increasingly being seen by islanders as remote and bureaucratic. Continuing disruption has hit many businesses in my constituency hard, nowhere more so, I should say, than in Eust. Loch Boyzdale is not typically a place where you will see protests and mass demonstrations, but the fact that, as others have pointed out, one third of the island's resident population came out to demonstrate against the recent complete withdrawal of the ferry service says much about the pain being felt there. South Eust has suffered regularly from service disruption and more, in fact, than anywhere else in the Clyde and Hebrides network. Over the course of a year there were a total of 225 cancelled sailings versus 479 which operated. That is an astonishingly high cancellation rate, easily higher than anywhere else on the network. Winter was particularly bad with only a quarter of scheduled sailings operating between November and March. Lifeline services should, in the first instance, serve island communities. I preface the next remark carefully by acknowledging that every island in Scotland needs a good ferry service, but while other islands with smaller populations get two or even four vessel services, the whole string of islands from Erisgate to Burnary has to share half of a single ferry between North Eust and Skye at the moment. Donald Cameron, I hear what he says about islands requiring ferries and how they differ in their capacities, but is it one of the most invidious things about this crisis, that sometimes islands are pitted against each other and that we have a really negative, almost a competition between islands that should never happen? I identify what the member says. That is why I tried to phrase my remark carefully, because we should not be in a position where islands are in competition with each other. Of course, when there are not enough ships, they inevitably are, but I point to the particular situation in South Eust, and my remarks, I hope, are clear about what they have been suffering. The focus on passenger numbers to the detriment of all other considerations is, I believe, seeing those running ferry or operating ferry services drift from their core purpose. That is how we get to a route prioritisation matrix that is devised without any input from communities which strips an island of all its ferry services for the whole month of June. I therefore welcome the cabinet secretary's remarks, in which she is willing to question that matrix. There is no lack of evidence, Presiding Officer, for the economic damage being caused. One example reported by Business Gateway in the US detailed a 40 per cent drop in bookings for accommodation providers. Holleyers who are not supported through compensation from CalMac have frequently faced—I must make progress now—delay and re-routing over hundreds of miles. Time critical shellfish exports have sometimes not been able to reach European markets timuously. However, before the latest disruption even in the US, businesses had approached me to say that they were not convinced that they could survive this year, resulting from these issues. Of course, the complete withdrawal of the ferry service from South Eust makes that an even more critical situation. The Scottish Government has rightly made ensuring a reliable ferry service a priority. We all want to see the new island-class vessels as well as those that port glass come into service. However, as I have illustrated, there are businesses across the US that cannot afford to wait. What is happening in the US is in a different league to what is happening in many other places. The Government's amendment clearly recognises— I must ask you to conclude, Mr Allen. I am afraid that we have no extra time this afternoon. I conclude there and recognise that the Government's amendment goes some way, in fact, a great deal of the way to acknowledging those problems, which are very real. I call Jamie Greene to be followed by Katie Clark. I would like to do something unusual with my four minutes. I would like to nominate one of our constituents for an award. His letter was dubbed Letter of the Day, but I would like to nominate Mr John S Milligan from Cymarnock, the prestigious parliamentary award of Letter of the Year, because it brilliantly sums up this entire debate. Let me read his letter to you. Dear editor, I booked my car and caravan on to the Adrossan Brodic ferry about two months ago for one of my several annual holiday trips through the Isle of Arran. Regrettably, CalMac has cancelled my booking with just over a week before the trip was scheduled to take place. CalMac, trying to be helpful, has advised that I can still travel to Arran via Clonic, which is fine because, although it is a four-hour trip from my home, I know the route like the back of my hand since I have had to travel it so often due to last-minute cancellations. Why do I want to raise my latest holiday ferry booking problem? Quite simply, I am utterly fed up with the lottery operated by CalMac, which leaves travellers to Scottish Islands in the position where they are unable to guarantee whether they can either reach or return from their chosen destination on the dates booked. Now, I might lose out on a holiday, which, in the overall scheme of things, is a relatively minor issue, says Mr Milligan. Perhaps more importantly, the long-suffering island communities will also lose out. For example, Jenny's cafe, just outside Brodic, will not be serving me or my other seven members of my family lunch. Neither will the coffee pot in Whiting Bay. The Lachranza caravan site will not be getting our booking. The stag pavilion in Lachranza will not be serving us dinner. Pern mill stores, along with numerous others, will not receive our custom. All of those businesses, which need a reliable ferry service to exist, are significantly disadvantaged by the mess that is our so-called island ferry services. He says that I do not know whether to blame CalMac or the Scottish Government. I do not know who is to blame, but what I do know is that the current situation cannot continue with its current hit-and-miss approach. That goes on would be an ideal time for our new First Minister to show that, although under the previous regime that he was part of and unable to successfully build ships on time, he can now successfully deliver projects on time for the people of Scotland. I hope that the First Minister was listening to John's letter, because he is right that businesses on Arran, as they are elsewhere, are at their utter wits end due to this endless uncertainty. Many are unsure if they believe in survive this crisis. Last year, I raised in the chamber the Ohrani resort that wrote off £400,000 into their cash flow to account for ferry disruption. That is on top of another £300,000 in related costs. That is just one island. One business. It is multiplied by hundreds of businesses on dozens of islands. You do not need to be the finance secretary to do the math on that. It all adds up. The problem is that we do not know by how much. When I asked the Scottish Government just an hour ago if it had done any work whatsoever to calculate the potential economic cost of this crisis to our island communities, and I say this with the greatest respect to Mr Lockhead, who I have a lot of time for personally, it was complete waffle in response. We heard that repeated, I am afraid, from the cabinet secretary again today. They do not know the answer, because they probably do not want to know the answer of the immense cost of this. Our islands need compensation, and they needed it yesterday. No ifs or buts. Get a move on. I call Katie Clark to be called by Stuart McMillan. For giving me this opportunity to speak particularly on behalf of constituents on the Clyde islands of Arran and Cumbria, who, like thousands of others, are regularly impacted by the on-going ferry crisis, which is causing chaos. As we all know, when a ferry breaks down on a lifeline route, it affects islanders' ability to attend hospital appointments, work funerals, and a wide range of other commitments on the mainland and others' ability to visit the island. The declining resilience of CalMac ferries has an impact on almost every aspect of island life and the economies of island communities. It has a disproportionate impact on those producing goods with short shelf lives and on those trying to buy or sell such goods with short shelf lives such as food. Over the festive period, many constituents were in touch with myself and no doubt others in the chamber about the empty food shelves in shops on Arran due to ferry cancellations. Unfortunately, that is becoming a regular occurrence. Constituents on Cumbria have been in touch about problems with postal services as well as many other items as a result of the problems with the ferry service there. In both Arran and Cumbria, significant problems have been caused by the failure of CalMac to give priority to essential goods such as food. I am happy to hear that. As she rightly narrates the concerns of her constituents, I wonder if she can welcome, in the context of Michael Marra's motion, the fact that the MV Alfred, part funded by CalMac penalty deductions, is now serving her constituents who I know have concerns on Arran. Katie Clark? Anything that is done to alleviate the current situation, but as the cabinet secretary well knows, islanders on Arran are continuing to have significant problems. However, I was focusing on a very specific issue that has been raised by islanders who are asking that priority is given to essential goods such as food and indeed on postal services, as there are repeated problems with such essentials when ferries are cancelled. I know that I have written to the cabinet secretary and her previous colleagues in her role about the issue, and I suspect that others have as well. CalMac's own social economic report from 2020 showed that its services generated more than £227 million in turnover with a footprint of more than £350 million. A 2020 North Ayrshire Council Fraser of Allander report estimated that, on average, each day of ferry operation, there is a contribution of just under £170,000 to Arran's economy, and, of course, that figure will be greater now. There is absolutely no doubt that the impact of functioning lifeline ferry services has a significant impact on the economies of island communities and cannot be underestimated. We know that tourism businesses estimate that they lose tens of thousands of pounds every time one of the two ferries serving Arran is diverted to support services elsewhere. Labour's motion today insists that the Scottish Government establish a resilience fund to help businesses affected by CalMac cancellations. Islanders are in this situation because of the decisions of politicians that have meant that we have not procured the vessels needed over many years, and I hope that Parliament will support that motion today. I remind the chamber that my wife works part-time for CalMac. I also welcome Fiona Hyslop to her new role in the Scottish Government and the new responsibility that the cabinet secretary has for transport. I put in record my considerations for the local MSP Alasdair Allan and his representations to the Scottish Government for his constituents. Like all constituents of the MSPs, our first priority is to our constituents, and that is what Alasdair Allan has consistently done throughout this particular situation. Nobody is in doubt of the significant distress and difficulty that ferry disruption has had on island communities and the economies. When you have a reported third of the community demonstrating to highlight their plight, it is obvious that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. On the fair question of compensation, the Scottish Government is carefully considering the best option for the resilience of island economies. The compensation fund has not been introduced for the reason that money is already deducted from CalMac in penalties and fines and is reinvested back into the resilience of the network. The chartering of the MV Alfred from Pendlin Ferries, for example, has been part-funded by CalMac's performance deductions. The First Minister highlighted that at the First Minister's questions very recently. The motion from the Opposition talks about the funds. The challenge with this is where the money would actually come from as the penalties are already being reinvested back into the system. CalMac removing a service for one month at the busiest time of the year is certainly not going to be positive for the south-east economy. I know that Alasdair Allan has previously written to the Scottish Government expressing his concerns and issues of his constituents and local businesses accordingly. I accept that CalMac, CMAL and the Scottish Government are facing a massive challenge when faced with this present situation. Indeed, CMALs and recorders having looked at it are also considered over 650 ships over a five-year period to actually bring into the fleet. In addition, the Scottish Government has bought and deployed an additional vessel in the MV Lochfrisia, chartered the MVRO to provide additional resilience and capacity, made significant progress in the construction of vessels 801 and 802, commissioned two new vessels for ILE, commissioned two new vessels for the Lothal Mint routes, progressed investment in key ports and harbours and confirmed additional revenue funding for the operation of local authority inter-island ferry services. The investment in ports and harbours are hugely important, and the job that CMALs are undertaking here is absolutely vital to help to provide the public ferry service network that I am sure we all want to see. The minister's amendment highlights a few areas that I believe are important in this debate. The part in the amendment that I believe is crucial, which is an address concerns that have been raised around CalMac's route prioritisation matrix to ensure that it is reviewed with input from communities and that it considers the economic impact to fragile island communities. For one area to be the go-to location with regular currents from CalMac to see a reduced service is, in my opinion, wrong. There clearly needs to be a wide range of factors involved in this matrix, and the review of those is absolutely imperative. The quicker that happens, the better. In conclusion, I want to see our ferry service improve, and the sooner the additional ferries come on to the fleet, the better, and they will certainly help with the resilience in the service, but the immediate priority must be to help the US. I welcome Fiona Hyslop to her new role as Minister for Transport. As our islands and islands MSP, I hear from and feel the profound impact that ferry disruption has on my constituents. It is vital to centre them in this debate and in all our plans to improve ferry services. Our islands are not museums or amusement parks for tourists. They are living, breathing communities with ferries as their vital arteries, and every council ferry trip for islanders is an appointment missed, a job unfinished or a shop unstocked. While the value of the fines paid by CML has been used to partly fund the cost of the charter of MV Alfred, those funds are not nearly sufficient to address the challenges that are faced by businesses and communities on our islands. Situations such as those faced in South US must be prevented, and that must be our focus now. A short-term resilience fund is not a sustainable solution to the systemic issue that is causing the challenges in our islands. I am not going to take an inventory or hear that we are short for time. Best would be a temporary and repackaged form of a short-term relief that would prioritise the disruption caused to business, not the disruption caused to communities. Why should a business be compensated for a cancelled booking and not a constituent who has missed a hospital appointment or a long planned family gathering? Instead, the Scottish Government's budget must be directed to substantial investment in our future ferry services that addresses the root causes of the challenges being faced by our island communities. We need legislation and funding that will revitalise our islands in the round, such as the community wealth building bill, of which the Western Isles Council is currently engaged in a pilot project. The funding that Scottish Greens have been calling for to support community-led housing and development projects such as those on mull, collonsie and gear. As you heard, I will not take an intervention because the Presiding Officer has said that we are tight on time. Rather than simply handing over small amounts of money to affected businesses as Labour is proposing, we should fundamentally change the way economies operate in our island communities so that public and private funds are retained and optimised. It is crucial that we unlock the potential of our island communities and help them to reserve reverse depopulation trends by delivering a resilient ferry network to support Scotland's future as a thriving island nation. As long as the Scottish Government's finances are constrained by a defective devolution settlement and routinely worsened by UK Government austerity and Tory economic mismanagement, it is hard to see what viable route there is to further increase spending on our ferry services and infrastructure, spending that has increased by 180 per cent since last year, delivering new vessels and supporting improved piers, harbours and to future proof our ferry fleet. I continue to urge that new vessels be low carbon, like the electric ferries running on renewable energy in Sweden and Denmark. We also need to decarbonise our existing vessels, retrofitting electric motors, cut pollution, emissions, noise and running costs. We must also urgently advance a review of fares to ensure that island communities are not further disadvantaged. In closing, as the RMT called for yesterday, all parties need to join together constructively to support CalMac, SEMAO and our island stakeholders to get round the table and to design a long-term solution. I begin by welcoming Fiona Hyslop to her role as transport minister. She undoubtedly comes into that position with significant experience in government, and that is desperately needed at this time. One of the problems has been that there has been no transport minister in place long enough to understand the problems and commit to solving them. As Neil Bibby said, there has been a ministerial merry-go-round where his words are. In all the years that I have been in place as an MSP, never before has the crisis in golfing Scotland's ferry network been as great a danger to island life as it is now. We have spoken many times about island depopulation and the need to address the challenges that cause it, including fixing the unreliable ferry network. But words can only do so much. We need urgent action, and so far this Government has failed in every metric. The number of cancellations has been growing. The number of ferry breakdowns has been growing, and earlier this year we learned that CalMac is on track to break its own level of performance fines. That does not instill any confidence in the Scottish Government's ability to get a grip on this crisis. To Arianne Burgess, I say this. She found time to blame the UK Government, but the blame here sits with the Scottish Government and the Scottish Government alone. For once, I ask her to stand up for the island communities that she represents, because the situation is desperate, and it is affecting residents, visitors and businesses on a daily basis. In the short term that I have, I want to focus my contribution on one island, which has been so badly affected in recent weeks and months, and that is Marl. The really sad thing is that I could pick almost any island on the western seaboard, whose community has been affected by this crisis. Marl has seen its ferry services dwindle following the redeployment of the MV Isle of Marl and in its place two smaller vessels that are unable to cope with demand, especially as the summer season swings into place. The lack of a like-for-like vessel to serve Marl has resulted in 250 fewer carspaces, 7,000 fewer passenger spaces every day, coupled with the disastrous new booking system launch. That has meant that bookings have been cancelled at short notice and passengers forced into a free-frawer, and it has a direct impact on the people living and working on Marl. I spoke to one local business owner, Stephen Blaisey, who runs Mul Wildlife Breaks. He told me that he offers customers a bespoke wildlife holiday, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to satisfy clients when their pre-book tickets are disregarded by CAMAC and they just have to get on to any boat that they can be slotted on to. He says that this crisis is resulting in a downturn in bookings, and bookings and cancellations are being received at an alarming rate. Another business, the Tobermory Bakery and Tearum, has reportedly lost between 30 to 40 per cent of its usual takings as a result of coach-tour cancellations. Local groups such as the Mul Rugby Club have been hit hard. It organised a rugby tournament a month or so ago and spent £12,000 on catering and equipment only to be told by several clubs visiting the island that CAMAC had cancelled their bookings, or the Mul Junior Sporting Competitor, who had two qualifiers in her sport to represent an under-18 Scotland team and was uncertain about whether she could actually get off the island to attend. Presiding Officer, the situation in Mul and across all of Scotland's islands is reaching a precipice. Of all the groups that I referred to and many others more, they need urgent support. Warm words about investment in resilience, as important as that is, simply won't cut it. I've asked this of Hamza Yousaf, I've asked Kevin Stewart, I've asked Mariam McCallan and I now ask Fiona Hyslop. We need a very compensation scheme right now, and that is why we will be supporting Labour's motion at decision time. Thank you, and I call Ivan McKee, the final speaker in the open debate. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I'd just like to start by welcoming Fiona Hyslop to her role as transport minister. The importance of ferries to island business is a critical part of Scotland's tourism sector. I'd like to address my remarks to impacts on the sector, following on in large part from the debate that we had on tourism last week. In that vein, I'd like to congratulate Minister Richard Lochhead for getting tourism back into his title, which is usually an important and significant step. In the context of the Scottish tourism sector bouncing back very strongly, as it has done in post-Covid, with international visitors in particular, that is a hugely key part of Scotland's economy, as we reflected on last week, far beyond the bounds of the tourism sector itself. However, although that whole supply chain does not work, of course, if visitors cannot get to Scotland's islands, what is happening in the detriment and impact that is having on tourism in Scotland? Islands impacting the broader tourism sector across Scotland and impacting Scotland's vision of Scotland more broadly and internationally is hugely significant. I want to focus my remarks on the impact on local businesses. Tourism, but also food and drink, with some examples of how businesses have incurred as I proceed through my remarks. However, it is important to note that that is not just about the immediate impact when ferries are cancelled at short notice, but the cumulative impact that it has on confidence in the sector and it hurts not just local tourism, but of course the whole sector, as it diminishes Scotland's tourism offer. I thank the member for giving way. Does he agree with his Green Party colleagues and the disregard they show for businesses who employ people in these islands and who vitally need this support? He recognised, of course it does. That uncertainty is damaging, for example, to our operators now taking decisions to de-list islands from the 2024. Tour attendities to protect their reputation because of the uncertainty that they have around ferry connectivity. It must be mentioned problems with the new booking system, which is adding to the difficulties that have been highlighted. There are many other examples where the knock-on effects hurt businesses beyond those lost revenues. Visitors claiming back costs, raising a dispute with credit card companies leading to more work, bureaucracy and additional costs for businesses that are buying in quality fresh seafood and other produce, which they then cannot use when guests have to cancel at short notice that food is going to waste. Lost potential businesses, visitors thinking about coming to visit our islands by that uncertainty leading to them cancelling or not booking at all in going elsewhere, often outside of Scotland. Of course it must be recognised that businesses do not make as much noise about this as they might due to their fears about damaging the image of the industry and jeopardising future bookings. There are many examples. I could say of this. I am all independent. Gin company is £15,000 down in revenue for May and June in the distillery. Family run boutique, bed and breakfast, one week's loss is more than £9,000 all due to lack of ferries of ferries being cancelled. Each one results in endless paperwork and phone calls with some very disgruntled customers. Another accommodation provides a total loss to earnings over a six-month period of £24,500. Our last enquiry booking was on 4 April, and it has not had any further enquiries since all the consequences of that uncertainty across the sector. I welcome the fact that the Government takes this seriously. I welcome the fact that there are three ministers here to address the issue in every continent, so work together to do that right across the whole range of things that need to be dealt with. The final point is worth reflecting on the fact that investing in that network is not just something to do because it supports island communities. It is important as it is an investment in Scotland's economy. It generates returns through building the tourism sector, making it more productive and increasing the tax base, not just on the islands, but right across the whole economy and enhancing Scotland's overall reputation as a destination. I am grateful to Labour for bringing this debate to the chamber today. As an islander, I am pleased to be able to speak on an area of real concern for island communities across Scotland. It has been an interesting debate, but while the impact of the ferries crisis on island communities has been well raised by many across the chamber, I think that islanders will note with disappointment how many SNP and green MSPs chose to put defending their Government before standing up for islanders and island businesses. I have warned time and time again that the ferries crisis in gulfing Scotland's west coast risks spreading further. There is a ticking time bomb, not only in the existing CalMac fleet, but also in those boats that provide lifeline links for the northern isles. The Hamdorvo, Rossie and Sheldland are all now 20 years old, and in Orkney, our inter-island boats are even older—the Thorfinn, Seagird and Varragan—all over 30 years old. They are owned and operated by Orkney Islands Council, but it is quite clear that the increasing urgency in planning replacement vessels is necessary and that the council will need support doing so. The same is true in Shetland, but, as ever, the Scottish Government has been slow to engage. While talks are now underway, as they are in Orkney, there is still no commitment to help. However, those are vital links for our island communities, and I will remind the Chamber of the words of Shetland Council convener Emma MacDonald, who, commenting on the UK Government's grant of £27 million of levelling up funding for a new ferry and new terminals for the ferail, said, and I quote, "...it's no exaggeration to say that this funding from the UK Government has saved ferail as an inhabited island.  The UK Government acted where the Scottish Government wouldn't. It's not just our island communities that are suffering. The coronaries crossing is one of Scotland's busiest, but this vital link has been severed for months, with the route's main vessel delayed returning from refit and its 47-year-old replacement breaking down almost immediately. This is a service operated by Highland Council, but with no real encouragement from the Scottish Government forthcoming, that council, now run by the SNP, has chosen to apply to the UK Government for levelling up funding. Local communities on the Arden American Peninsula, desperate for a liable service, will now be hoping that the UK Government steps up again where Scottish ministers haven't. In welcoming Fiona Hyslop as the new transport minister to her role, which I do, I genuinely wish her all the very best in this new role, because communities across my region can't afford for her to fail as others have. I would ask that she commits to meet with communities in Arden American, and, unlike her last two predecessors, delivers on that commitment. If I can turn very briefly to the Scottish Government's motion, one which is full of platitudes but misses one vital word, sorry. Scottish ministers have again heralded the £1 million-pound-per-month deal to charter the MV Alfred from Pentland Ferries. What they don't mention is that the vessel, covering the Pentland Firth route while the Alfred is away, the MV Pentelina, suffered a major failure and only returned to service yesterday after six weeks out, leaving Orkney without our shorty route for all that time. It wasn't in peak seas, and so the impact has, it appears, been minimal largely because of the efforts of Northlink to step in. But it's clear, as I've mentioned, that the crisis on the west coast is now impacting other island communities. And that crisis risks only getting worse until new vessels come into service in any significant numbers. I welcome any acceleration in the replacement of major vessels, but it shouldn't have taken 16 years, and the desperate situation of its own making the Scottish Government finds itself in now for the SNP to make this a priority. In the meantime, island communities will continue to suffer, and by refusing to provide compensation, the SNP appears content to abandon local businesses and islanders to their fate. That is shameful, Presiding Officer. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I also begin by welcoming Fiona Hyslop to her new role as transport minister. If there's anyone who's going to work tirelessly to address the issues that are being raised today—the very serious issues that are being raised today—it's Fiona Hyslop working alongside Cabinet Secretary, Mary McCallan, as well. Actually, things are a very, very important debate because it's really important that all our island communities see this national parliament discussing the very real challenges to face, many of which are a result of the disruption to ferry services, which, of course, is the subject of this particular debate. I think that Katie Clark, Ivan McKee, Beatrice Wishart and, of course, Alistair Allan have all illustrated very clearly the very real impact on everyday lives of people living and working in the islands when there's disruption to ferry services. I'll give way. Islands have seen this parliament debating this issue time and time again. What they haven't seen is ferries. What they haven't seen is action from the Scottish Government, and that's what they're angry about. Well, there's six new ferries that's been discussed with me into service in the next few years, and that will make a huge difference and represents very, very significant investments, as does indeed the £2.2 billion that's been invested in ferry services since 2007 by this Government. I just want to say that while we have a variety of different opinions, today the Parliament is clearly united in wanting to support our island communities. I'm running out of time, but I'll take one final, given it's... Michael Marra, I do appreciate the minister giving way. You mentioned the ferries that have been constructed. Does any of you recognise that the businesses are at risk now and the livelihoods that are supported by those businesses and the wages going into pockets? That's what we're asking for support now, not waiting for six ferries that may be built sometime in the future. I do recognise that, and I want to come on to that, because all ministers of the Scottish Government, like people across the chamber, very much recognise the strength of feeling on the islands that was illustrated, for instance, by the very powerful protests in Eust, and clearly others have given many illustrations of the impact on businesses in all different sectors—the food and drink industry, tourism, of course—and there are very real examples of the impact that situations have on the economy in their islands. It's really important that this Government recognises our responsibility and the fact that we're accountable, and we get this right for people who do live in the islands, and we take that responsibility very, very, very, very seriously. We are, of course, committed to working closely with regional and local partners, including local government, to make sure that we've got regional economic empowerment, but to realise that ambition, island businesses and communities do need reliable and resilient connectivity, including ferry services and digital connectivity. The First Minister said in this chamber just last Thursday that we are looking at what more we can do to support businesses. He also said in the same contribution that nothing is off the table. It's really important to send out the message today to our island communities, ministers, Scottish Government, Parliament, to listen. This is a very serious issue facing some communities, and we are listening, and we will act. The minister has 40 seconds. Sorry, I can't take the intervention. We are investing heavily in our island communities. There are some wider references to the priority of supporting our island communities. 26 million pounds committed to the national islands plan for 0.1 million pounds this year. 50 million pounds towards the island's growth deal. 16 new subsea cables to 15 islands through the R100 North contracts. The small business bonus scheme, the rural rates relief scheme, and we're committed to a rural development plan as well. I could go on and on and on. That investment is extremely important, as is sorting out the ferry services and getting the investment right as well. We've been speaking to communities about the impact of that. The final point that I want to make, Presiding Officer, is for the Tories to talk about others not standing up for island communities. When the UK Government announced £4.8 billion for levelling up, not one penny has gone to the western Isles and virtually not one penny has gone to all the other island communities in Scotland, so the Conservative Party could also stand up for island communities moving forward as well. In the meantime, this Government is committed to sorting this issue out and standing by our island communities. I call on Rhoda Grant to wind up the debate. I, too, welcome Fiona Hyslop to her new post. I sincerely wish her every success in it, because people's lives really depend on her being successful in sorting out this debacle. Island businesses don't want compensation. They want ferries, but without ferries, they need help to survive. That's why they're asking for the Scottish Government to set up a resilience fund, and we agree with them. We're not asking for the Scottish Government to cut spending elsewhere to do that. We're asking them to pay for it with the very fines that they charge CalMac when ferries are not running. Surely that's natural justice that those who bear the brunt of the cancellations should receive those fines? I'm grateful to Rhoda Grant for taking an intervention. On that basis, does Rhoda Grant believe that those penalties should not be reinvested into vessels such as the MV Alfred that are currently providing resilience in the network? The cabinet secretary keeps flagging the MV Alfred as their contribution to this. They are spending £1 million a month on renting the MV Alfred, £9 million for nine months. That's a ferry that costs £14 million to buy.  The Scottish Government bear responsibility for this crisis, and it lies squarely up their door. It's not the fault of CalMac or their staff because they don't build ferries. It's the fault of the Scottish Government who failed to build them and, when they did try, were proven absolutely incompetent. Neil Bibby said that they built six ferries in 16 years. Compare that with the 10 built in the eight years of the Liberal Labour coalition. Even Margaret Thatcher built more ferries than the SNP. Sadly, those ageing ferries are still being used on those routes. The cabinet secretary and the minister are responsible for the inaction of their Government because they can't pass the buck. Of course, some islands are impacted more than others. South Hewist, as Michael Marra said, where one in four sailings is disrupted, but there is not a single island that hasn't been unscathed, as Neil Bibby said. That is having a huge personal cost to communities. Beatrice Wishart talked about funerals missed, weddings missed, cancer treatment is also missed. Katie Clark talked about food and essential provisions being impacted in Arran and the countries. Donald Cameron talked about Mal, Ivan McKee reeled off a huge number of issues. There is not an island that is not impacted by all of that, but South Hewist is a case in point and stands out. The local economy loses £50,000 a day in low season for lost ferries. It has lost millions in the past couple of months. South Hewist was a growing community. Young families were being welcomed back. Storist Hewist, the community landowner, was developing the area. Keolis, the language and culture centre, was becoming a focal point for the whole community. It was community empowerment and action, and yet it has been marooned by the Scottish Government. A third of the population out-protesting against that and yet the best that they can get from the Scottish Government is a review of the matrix. I don't know if the islanders on the United States will be as angry and frustrated having listened to today's debate, and not a single ounce of detail has come from the Government benches on what compensation might be available to them and their businesses. Not a single word or commitment from this Government, and they will be as fuming as we are on this side of the chamber. Yes, I can only imagine that people are getting angrier by the day as they wait and see no action being taken at all, because everyone is impacted. A haulier told us, be it a toothbrush or a new-build house, you have to get that on island and it has to come by ferry. Alasdair Allan talked about the 40 per cent of bookings dropped for accommodation. That's almost half an annual income gone. Keolis, who I talked about before, their summer school has been impacted because bookings are well down. That's got a knock-on effect to the local community as well. A haulier told us that people can't make a living and they can't stay here. The impact of that impacts on staff as well because they have to bear the brunt of community frustration, and that is simply not right. They were once proud to serve their islands and that has been taken away from them. When the Government makes a mistake, it compensates people. It did during Covid when people were losing their businesses. They need to do that now because the impact of that is worse than Covid. They need to build ferries, they need to set up a resilience fund, and they need to do right by our communities.


I'm at Universal Studios, Orlando, Florida. Literally though, I was in one of the shops, came across one of the penny crushing machines, and there was something I discovered on it. I've done a lot of videos on kiosks and finding hidden buttons, and I found a hidden button, and about to walk into the Spider-Man shop where they have another one of those machines. I'm gonna assume it works the same. Let's go ahead and have a look at it. But basically, I'm gonna press the top right corner of the screen. It'll bring up a menu that says authorized users only, and then I press that top right corner again, and it brings up a keypad. Then you have to come up with a code to get in. So, let's have a look at that. Can we take a look at that? So yeah, I don't know what the code is. I tried one, two, three, four. I tried the four corners. But I thought I'd share this, cause I always enjoy finding little hidden menus on kiosks like that. If any of you are at Universal Studios and figure out what the combination is, let me know in the comments below. Thanks for watching again. Whenever you're at a kiosk like that on the public, just touch the sides of the screen, especially the corners, see if you can find anything, cause lots of times there are hidden menus. Have a great day.