has to ignore him when he gets defensive what only cap gets wrecked and Thor makes it look easy Thor has to check in on him like he's a child and likewise has to ignore him when he gets defensive what wait alright hang on he just got shot the context I'm grabbing us the context I don't believe this man yeah exactly yeah this is really missing it's missing Hulk saying yes Hulk will smash for you it's horrible that's right he's thinking about how much of a virgin he is right now she's got laid before this battle like that's literally the panel he got up was just Hulk saying Hulk yes Hulk will smash for you to captain America and he's just like yeah we're missing that out directly from the script which is what happens in the movie in slow mo cap and Thor catch their respective hammer and shield cap and Thor turn and fight off Chitare warriors cap is shot in the ribs drops to the ground Thor sends a car rolling towards some of them and throws me on the other way helps cap to his feet Thor says are you ready for another bout and Steve says why do you get in sleepy oh wow how is that defensive like a child so he's interpreted that as capping like shut up I know I suck but you suck too and then Thor was like wow you're a very bitter old man that's actually I can do this all day yeah basically yeah it's him telling and plus Thor is asking if you're ready for another bout that means like are you ready to do even more like you're not done like you're gonna keep fighting right this is this is a primary example of what we call text and subtext text interpreted literally you come away with what this guy thinks subtext Thor isn't saying are you ready for another bout Thor is saying you've just been shot with an alien weapon maybe you should sit out and caps responses you get in sleepy what this guy actually means is yeah I can do this that means he needs a nappy he's like I'm a child it's an old man maybe he's getting a red, white, blue, blankie oh man you said something different in the movie you read the script it could be different I get everybody on twitter pulls the media literacy card on me they're like Moorla has no idea how to read into anything and I'm just like this is why I don't like this is this man doesn't know how to you know that's why you should interpret it it's funny you say that because I just found this thread let the hate flow through you let it make you stronger wait what's the thread so someone posted like efap posting their L's and just posted the thumbnail to the doctor strange one and this is like a series of this is like a reply someone asking what is a genuine criticism you have the Moorla and then some people had some responses besides it being long what isn't which isn't a criticism what's the problem he sucks and doesn't make real criticism alright fair enough he mentions a lot of instances of plot armor plot hulls dumb character decisions have drastic effects on the plot are those not real criticisms yeah they're not okay so what are real criticisms I'm not going to go into what's being told it's just Moorla seems out of pure escape oh there it is could you tell me what you mean I'm not going to do that do you mean deflection it's this it's like this twitter refusal it's just just basic explanation of what you're saying or what you mean they just never have time for it they have time to bitch what I'm saying like there's no I'm not going to do that surely it's got to get inconvenient you know not having a spine when in your day to day life like you just flippy flopping all over the place when you're trying to grab things how do you do it amazing apparently he had time to bitch all there but I guess he just didn't I have the time to say a lot of bitchy things but none of them are going to have substance alright you have to pay for that part when someone asks me to explain what I mean I will refuse and instead go do something else everything special about you came out of a bottle special about Captain America in this movie oh fuck he's a smart guy he's a leader dominating all the scenes in which he requires that skill he's someone who cares immensely about innocent lives being protected he has a moral backbone he'll go against institutions that he thinks are giving him wonky orders he's assertive he'll jump into fights super courageous let me get all of this from this movie not even including his movie you got a full fucking profile but he gets out punched by the Hulk though so no matter well now you bring that he never brings powers up in this whole video oh man I remember that part of the script he never mentions time to win battle come on virgin boy time to win the battle special about Captain America in this movie he isn't powerful he isn't smart he can barely win any of his fights and he gets continually disrespected by both his peers and the general public well so this is the part of the video where it's like how did they disrespect him by doing exactly what he says why are you cutting that out oh dude that's how you get him why are you saying that he's stupid because he doesn't know what the reverse polarity in like everything is that's your clip of him being stupid he doesn't know technology this guy does not think very highly of him oh come on to be fair bringing all of us here knew exactly what reversing the polarity was so it's kind of embarrassing I will say well you just take the polarity and you reverse it you put it the other way he's not powerful turn the battle around fuck out of it we all have internet routers okay you unplug it and plug it back in he says Captain America isn't smart whereas obviously ignoring all the parts in the film what it establishes doing really smart things like ordering the guys of how to handle this battle and stuff cherry picking is very real is that even cherry picking does cherry picking require a lack of content I was going to say all of his examples are just not even fair the misrepresentation yeah there's false equivalences there's confirmation bias massively like this is just everywhere oh yeah he had the idea before he looked through the film again yeah he never says cowardly did by both his peers you're right he hasn't got any reference for him being cowardly but he doesn't use it as courageous as a positive yeah good show even with his retarded fucking assessment you'd have to admit that he's courageous of course he showed scenes of him being courageous in multiple occasions so if we just don't mention it people will understand that I am right and the general public I am very much a fan of classic Marvel comics and I am very much a fan of Captain America because he's saying modern shit he's bitter I think that's I'm pretty sure he's referring to the fact yeah I think he's just saying that modern Marvel sucks in the comics as well as he probably means the movies too fuck it whatever I don't know but I think he's talking about modern comics suck man I really wish they portrayed that in Avengers you know he didn't just he didn't get shot in the film and then just get up and get ready to keep fighting there was no endurance showing in Avengers at all yeah and that other bit where he was blown up by a grenade and flown out of a fucking building and he got straight back up I hated that part also don't use this frame from the Civil War comic to fucking illustrate how notable he is wait the the one where he says I'm not gonna go down to some pampered punk like you that's like the end of his fight with Iron Man and then I think immediately after you see that they've done this what the man has steeled an entire block basically um you hate to see it when they man of steel a city you hate to see it what it means to be a true leader what he lacks in power he makes up for and resolves an endurance he's supposed to be the hero that keeps fighting when others go down I'm seriously baffled at how you you played the scene where he did that I don't know he's supposed to be the hero that pulls strength out of others he led them even the strength they didn't know they had he should be smart and mature only fighting when he needs to not arguing like a child when someone says something well literally mine started right there cap should be immune to any kind of magic that's my cap okay he's immune to magic he should hold me and stroke my hair and tell me I've been a good boy him and Thor make out that would be the fill by one all the other Avengers are arguing about themselves he should stand out as a voice of reason yeah he should be immune to the mind stone unless he doesn't realize the mind stone is a thing which I think is more likely if he's in over his head he should still be cool and collected he should know how to delegate his leadership as a weapon he uses just as effectively as his shield when he ordered all of the Avengers and helped them keep the Chitaru coordinates all part of the city and saved many lives but Iron Man ordered him to do that so therefore that doesn't count at all all of the specific directions that Steve gave the team were really Tony's he's a super soldier a fight with an average man should very much be an easy task he's not fighting average men he's fighting aliens without the part of the helicarrier do you remember the situation he said he's not just having one-on-one fights in a like a clear balanced ground for him oh but he just got trapped in a bad angle what the fuck yes he did what is he gonna say that I was distracted by the yellow monkey meme it's as if you have Joss Whedon is like writing it and he's like how do I make it so the cap is gonna have trouble with average soldiers considering you should probably fucking dominate them what if I put him in an environment where he is at a weakness he's ranged he's got no cover and he's gotta take care of this lever so that he can save Iron Man's life and then they come in through they have the advantage maybe I can make that work and then this guy's like wow you made it so that he's losing you couldn't get close without getting shot well then don't write it that way oh how dare you don't ever write him probably a fairy born in 1919 huge racist oh my god no can't take a bullet can't even get respect from cops gay handsome can fly will kill civilians base literal god giant dong this is so true I feel like this just sums it up does he have a video on Captain America from Endgame? we've got arguments there, especially the end I'm sure he thinks he's amazing remember he said Avengers December which is pretty much like saying we can do this all day what was really great was when he aptly said get the stones as far away from here as possible but then Smart Hulk said now we gotta get him across the battlefield behind enemy lines to get him back where they came from and for some reason Steve foolishly decided that was a good idea too fair all of them decide that's a good idea for some reason it is worth emphasizing again get the stones behind enemy lines to get them back in time right now instead of just giving them to Dr. Strange and portaling to a different planet trapped in a bad angle where you couldn't get close without getting shot well then don't write it that way why do you think he wrote it that way it's a challenge oh my god don't create a scenario where my hero can struggle he definitely wouldn't like our struggle I don't understand why does he like any of these films all of the heroes struggle, why would you write it that way why can't they just automatically win everything boo he must have hated Infinity War he must have been like what spoke to my brain about that is that by that statement he is acknowledging that that situation justifies the fact that Captain America struggled in that scene where he uses that scene as the criticism that he shouldn't struggle against thing and then he justifies that and then says he doesn't give a reason at all why that's criticism thinking that it's still standing surely this highlights the actual problem he doesn't like that Joss Whedon wrote Cap to struggle that's it he doesn't like that he put him in a scenario where he had to struggle when, like Shad said, he criticised Cap for even struggling in the first place in that scene exactly by saying that he's acknowledging that that scene is logically set up to justify Captain America struggling, undermining his own criticism exactly so this is another video by this guy why force healing works in the Mandalorian but fails in episode 9 that's interesting it's only a 3 and a half minute video it's only 3.5 minutes are you suggesting you want me to put that on after this is that what you're doing well it's only 3 minutes it just means it would take us 4 hours to get through if we do it quick just remember the video exists just keep it in your back pocket for later if you need it that's all I'm saying if you want to hear it be inspiring or even just likeable don't make him struggle at performing an easy task it's not it do you understand do you understand what does what do you always mean what's with the cursed Joss Whedon PNG by the way like what is that it's just like garbled deep fried Joss Whedon in the corner just because you can't think of anything better from what you do oh my god oh my god get it away what happened in the background there why are there all those weird artifacts he probably selected by color control X he tried to magic erase the background but the computer wasn't it didn't select everything yet and if you can't think of anything better for him to do then you're the wrong person for this job oh yeah yeah Joss I'm way better than you are you have your heroes struggle I don't want to see Joss Whedon's live reaction to this video be pretty funny hey Joss come on EFAP unironically please we can talk about the Avengers or fucking anything we can talk about Nevers dude I talked about Age of Ultron instantly I'd be like hey tell that movie huh and he's like yeah he already knows it's easy to distinguish his strength when compared to someone like Hawkeye or Black Widow that's how it should be but none of that is in this film yeah they just they show hang on do we see like Hawkeye or Black Widow get knocked out of a building crashing on a car or getting shot and just brushing it off like a tank we don't but the writers wisely didn't write them in that position so consider is he going to cut this off he is he cut it off before of course he did that's like before Thor hit him with a hammer there's a reason he keeps showing this shot in particular I think he's trying to imply to the audience that Cap is submitting to Loki but he literally gets up and says not today and then kicks him in the face which implies tomorrow what a cock what a yeah Joss Whedon hates Captain America what should be but none of that is in this film instead we get to see him outwitted overpowered, sad and scared oh he's sad oh he's sad oh no he's sad he's actually critical of the fact that he experiences sadness over a war what a cock what a pussy when Captain Cock America throws his loser inspire confidence he inspires pity he is not cool and collected he inspires pity lost and helpless lost and helpless we should be shocked by how much he does with so little is he actually punching Hulk is that what's happening that probably isn't going to end to be honest I would struggle with believing Cap punching Hulk and it doing anything alright in the comics he would I got one of the ultimate comics where he like kicks him right in the nuts oh that would I like that break your foot I think it's just Hulk more but um he fights Thanos toe to toe in Infinity War I mean like that he's tough endurance is like one of his superpowers like he's fucking tough like he does not back down he does go for a little bit against Thanos he does get knocked the fuck out by him he'll take on shit where he should no I like that I just mean I wouldn't want him to win I guess cause he'd be like oh that probably shouldn't have happened like when it comes to someone like Hulk or Thanos but he gets a couple of hits in even in the comic books yes he does I don't remember him ever winning against the Hulk ever he's not a wise leader he's a helpless child he's not the last one standing I don't need Hulk is a child seriously how could you say that after watching the film in any level of honesty loser help me understand your perspective show me your brain he's the first one down I'm pretty sure that he's not down and he's not down he gets back up cause remember Hulk gets taken out of the fight too for a while so he he wasn't the first one down he definitely wasn't he gets back up but he went down in the first place that was the mistake he's already done he got knocked down and then he shows a clip of him after he got knocked down and gets back up from Civil War oh wait is he saying Civil War did it right or some shit what a helpless child he's not the last man standing he's the first one down all of these issues that I talked about were ironed out in later films it was ironed out so to speak it wasn't the continuation of something that was already present you see Civil War fixed cap he was broken when you see it wait are we talking about this or what are we the meme the meme there's two memes in there oh oh oh oh oh oh it's good because of how little it is oh shit oh oh oh oh oh the only thing that they needed to do was with all the names on the top with Stephen Hawking and it's like Stephen Hawking as himself what you're calling Hot Wheels I guess or they put him in the Captain America outfit it's just clearly too big but he wears it anyway oh man so hang on I think we need to just quickly do a speed run of all our ideas for Stephen Hawking's superhero name I went with Hot Wheels Hot Wheels Robot voice um Hawk Wheels maybe the brain the brain Skyhawk he's reading chat does he fly like quick I hope so he looks totally like that but he just has random gadgets that pop out of his wheelchair oh um Captain Cripple he chooses that name and they're all like you want us to you want us to call you that he's like I'm like daredevil I own my disability I'm reading wants to chat the disabled we had uh Iron Supple we had Cripp Daddy on FNT last night and like right towards the end Gundam asked him if he masturbates and we get in this whole thing Stephen Hawking was able to get off with all this mistresses and how much that guy got laid it was a dark conversation what's good to say we got one guys we got one general relativity oh that's good I love it so what's in share devil I also like sub optimal prime sub optimal prime the broken avenger captain chromosomes oh he would have appreciated this by the way oh he would oh man there's so many in here oh my god talking bad steel wheel auto bot chair force lugs and crips the silent avenger the silent avenger the rolling avenger professor vegetable okay alright we need to auto tune you can't call him fish to talk okay guys that's good man of wheel alright a lot of these issues that I talked about were ironed out in later films was there blood on that shield wait a minute oh my god was there hold on need to see if there was blood on the shield he's not the last man standing he's the first one down oh wow so cap's kind of a murderer he's a yeah he must be a bad person there's blood on that shield what a horrible man can't believe he'd do that a lot of these issues that I talked about see that's what I'm talking about by the way with the media literacy thing the crowd for that against people like us when they were like you don't understand that walker was evil because that's what the show is telling you by having blood on his shield like they treat they would reverse engineer it if you understand we see the blood on the shield we're like oh my god how overt do you want to be that's absurd we get your point while they're like wow you didn't understand the blood on the shield represents that the shield has been tarnished it was like no I know I don't think it's very good see that's the thing I'm amazed because it's so overt on the nose it's almost embarrassing and they think they've spotted something the average person doesn't or something in terms of how you translate ideas through visuals it's just like wow you know what George Lucas was right George Lucas was right when he said most critics are like cinematically illiterate I agree we're ironed out in later films but that doesn't justify the mess it started it all with all that said I hope I've made imagine referring to a ninja's wait he wraps it up with I hope I made my point clear does he really say that no you raised many questions out in later films but that doesn't justify the mess it started it all with all that said I hope I've made my point clear enough for everyone Joss Whedon hates Captain America oh wait I suppose Joss Whedon also directed Age of Ultron but that whole movie sucks so it'd be kind of redundant just to single out the Captain America scenes I'll probably have to do a full breakdown of that one later on no first of all I don't know that you have the capacity to do so secondly Joss Whedon doesn't fucking like Age of Ultron there's a reason nobody likes Age of Ultron yeah so that was pretty convincing wouldn't you say feel like all of you are thinking now like oh shit we were wrong oh my god the punnish chair that's a stretch that was a super chat that she had not thought a good one handicapped in America dude so I want to go I want to go pee really quickly you know alright you guys talk about something I have to go sleep because I'm dying over here you know thank you for joining us you're welcome we'll see you thanks for the song you're welcome you're the best thank you for having me on collapse bye I'm going to go to before you pee oh okay hey hey hey oh okay see you in what hours hours like 10 or 12 hours you too Shad yeah talk about House of the D House of the D your chat is going to be filled with people saying how is Mueller awake and that's if I am I will warn you there is a slim chance I might conk out so hard that I might not make it okay it's not intentional I know I won't take it personal I won't take it that personal no it's fine if you got to sleep you got to sleep but guys it's been lots of fun had a blast congratulations on 200 later make it easy bye bye someone in chat posted a valid point which is Stephen Hawkins Nemesis would be John Walker John Walker yeah I wonder what they're going to do with that character given where they've said I guess they're making that Thunderbolts movie that he'll probably be in but I'm curious what trajectory they're going to send him on maybe that video is a troll nah I don't know he's got a she-hulk video that she-hulk is a new low from our didn't he say that he doesn't like the new I mean he may well hold that perspective I feel like there's no multi-versive mad this is like pretty remarkable in how flawed it is so a lot of children there's any low below that that's a film that just breaks in every possible way I don't know what you think from a writing standpoint that's even worth commending except for one line of dialogue by every now and then 40 minutes of material I mean I thought it was cool I thought it was cool the whole like you know when he's like puppeting his own corpse and he's got the souls and I mean none of that was set up and it was just like completely ridiculous but how did he get it he didn't have a sling ring that Doctor Strange there was no sling ring you're going in for the visual you're like I know when it's that movie you have to go it's totally ridiculous that's all they give you is the visuals like there's nothing more that is a visual that they wanted and they didn't care how they got it because I don't even like does this logic make sense dream walking into another alive sentient and conscious being is not as bad as dream walking into a dead empty being it's better when you have a victim like what kind of what kind of logic is that and also I thought magic didn't work in that like sorcerers were forbidden they couldn't get any closer but then casting spells and shit in the castle maybe they are using witchcraft and not sorcery right through illegal technicality it is allowed I thought that witchcraft was like something that was in the nature of these beings whereas where as sorcery was something anybody could learn right is that how I thought we had this conversation didn't we I don't know what the rules are in the Marvel Universe though to be fair I don't imagine whatever they want it to be I don't think I think that if you were to ask any writer who's written for the magic stuff what are the rules of magic that you wouldn't even get an answer like a real answer I don't think anybody knows what's going on anymore I wouldn't be surprised if people couldn't even tell you what year their story is set like after finding out that the Hawkeye writers had a continuity era where like they didn't even know how many years their story was set after Endgame like that just blows my mind how can you write stories in this universe when you don't even know where they take place because they know nobody cares everyone's just watching the visuals anyway I guess the thing is is that I wonder how it seems like the sentiment is turning it seems like more and more how long it takes for people to recognize the current MCU thing as bad it's like diminished it used to be maybe a year now and then it was six months and then with Doctor Strange it was only a month and a half maybe before people turned on that film and thought like everybody was against the law when it came out maybe a day or two for some people well I mean when was the last good like Marvel property so I would say that the last good one probably because I don't know if I would call Infinity War a good I like Infinity War a lot yeah it's got a lot of problems but it's good though are we talking about on the upper scale like so we're talking like six and up if we're talking six and up I actually think the last one that you could probably say was the six and up would be home because no one home is like usually slots into five just because of all of the plot problems yeah we have to we have to pay a heavy price to get our payoffs um yeah I because I mean I probably say like the last one that I would say is like good or above would be homecoming probably not the last one I liked because I like Infinity War yeah probably um because you think about what comes up to that Ragnarok has got plot problems for sure um and then you got Black Panther's got a lot of problems then Infinity War for as much I like it's got problems Ant-Man and the Wasp I can't even fucking remember that movie Quantum that's all you need to know about that film Quantum but then it gets a Quantum out of 10 uh Captain Marvel definitely not very good not very good and pretty bad uh Far From Home has got problems it's got good elements but it's got a lot of problems I really like that movie but it does have issues well yeah it's probably because I was thinking yeah it's Spider-Man Homecoming and right before that was Guardians 2 so yeah yeah so I think um because Phase 3 was pretty exciting for a while there and then it all because now we're at the point what was it one of the She-Hulk writers said oh yeah everybody's just kind of moved on from the blips like ah yes everybody's just moved on from the worst thing ever happened in history of your universe yeah that's Phase 3 so one two three four five like through the first five movies I mean yeah Civil War was good Doctor Strange was I mean it wasn't good it had a good protagonist I liked him quite a bit you know Guardians 2 yeah Homecoming is good Rektorok I'll take it absolutely I'll take it and then it was just like meeeeere kind of well it definitely seems like um what we thought was the lowest you could go it just keeps getting that bar just keeps lowering it's pretty remarkable um because I mean look at this phase how many films could you actually say like what was what is the um the standard rule like far from home not far from home no way home is like in a five territory and everything else the best yeah it's the new way like a three out of that's insane here we've got Phase 4 we started out with Black Widow amazing we have Sean incredible yeah no way home just like we're what are you doing here no way home what are you doing there's a multiverse of Madness and Leaven Thunder they all one two punch there and Wakanda forever is up next and I mean that's that's kind of the thing it seems like people now have the general view that Phase 4 has not been very good that seems to be common um maybe not like super duper common to the point that every single person holds that perspective but like it's pretty common except for yeah I mean Spireman no way home is the best one and you're giving a five like yeah I mean this is not this is but it's like a five but it's a five in the sense that it has really good stuff and really bad stuff it's not it's not meddling throughout it just has super good peaks and super low valleys it has what it has that none of the other films have is that it has strong character work except for Doctor Strange but like everything else it has the same plot problems where nothing really makes sense at all mechanically um but then the other films have the problem of who are the characters that we're in dear to who are the characters that are really strong who are they and especially when Phase 4 has got to be the phase where you need to have new characters take on the role but the characters you don't have access to anymore Phil you don't have Iron Man anymore you probably don't have Cap anymore Thor's basically destroyed anyway um and I guess Hulk as well like I don't know what we're doing with him uh Black Widow was doing pretty well up until Endgame like she had it was and then retroactively post-op screwed it all up yeah when a character is dead you don't expect them to be assassinated from beyond the grave because this isn't even the same way as Tony was like you know they keep shitting on Tony post-death that's not the same thing they literally told a story between films about Black Widow that fucks everything up about her arc well yeah because with Tony it's like it's his grave it's defecating on his grave as opposed to that where she got pulled out to just be like break through the coals someone pulled out of that you had her like you nailed her and then she was like she was leaving as she was heading out the door they just it just all came back it all caught up to her you have to pay the piper this is the MCU and this is the question as they pulled out of net so um there's this there's something that people wanted us to check out back in the day oh boy we covered the first half of it you might say back in the day and everyone was like you're gonna cover the second one right and then we were like nah nah and I thought well I'm gonna chop up a couple little clips of things put into some stuff and I was like oh maybe I can chop this up I can chop this up and we'll get some stuff and we'll throw it in and I think we got a good selection here you guys have seen that star war films haven't you the ones with the yeah the empire the Jedi strikes back the phantoms that's a good one the attack of the menace that's the one with the teddy bears right yeah yeah so badass hang on hang on are you talking about the one with space wizards that were made for children the ones that were made for like yeah yeah I remember them wow bring it up let's see it so so there was this little thing that was put out about a character it was one of those really boring characters Obi-Wan Anaby he was one of the lame ones and they were like let's look at the TV show and it turns out it was great it was pretty awesome it was this new character called Riva I love the arc that she went on oh yeah dude she learned a valuable lesson so valuable I felt like Kenobi just kept getting my idea so annoying to have Kenobi in the show fans like him but whatever so he was in it a lot of us here actually as well have done little reviews of it there was another channel that did a review and they kind of implied it was pretty great and we covered their first set of reviews on it they did episodes one through I want to say four maybe five they had a little bit of an extra video on it we're going to check out the rest of the stuff they said now I might need to we were fine last time in terms of getting hit with any kind of copyright I was always worried that that might not be the case so I might still put up a protectiony thing for it justing put the condom on hot put the copyright condom on is there a red in this user's letter you could say that no how dare you what's the rat how dare you how dare you what's that well we're back everybody here we go here we go how dare you attack these cultural icons and heroes it's funny everybody who like disagreed with them on their Kenobi take which is in our spheres and stuff other people were like wow you disagree with them it's like I disagreed with them the second I disagreed with them yeah you could disagree without you have like no loyalty and then I was thinking like wait wouldn't you just criticize the reverse if I did the reverse you're like wow you can't disagree with your heroes can you yeah kind of baffled by it I feel like I have to do this caveat for some reason it's like I like red letter media I'm still watching them after having heard the opinions that are shared in this fucking video no no no once a youtuber gives an opinion you don't like you have to unsubscribe and never watch them ever again yeah well what is what's opinion one comment on the movie what are they reviewing well to give you an idea in the first half they said the Obi-Wan Kenobi like and they're talking about like throughout Star Wars the boring character right which was interesting old Ben it's just not the kind of take you'd expect from big Star Wars fans you'd be like oh you didn't like Obi-Wan Kenobi oh strange how very strange he didn't do much hey they will what do you really do kind of nothing all right fine I mean he just saw like he died and stuff but in the prequels oh the prequels yeah I'm talking about the original oh he's even cooler in that one do they like him in the prequels these guys don't like him these guys hated the fucking prequels yeah exactly maybe the only one that will try and go to fansforce for these guys but he's gonna try well I haven't seen Obi-Wan on the tv show so I can't really I haven't seen Kenobi either obviously because everyone said it was garbage I listened to you guys I was like why don't I waste my time with this you may be surprised to find out Sige but their most controversial opinions aren't even about Kenobi in this video okay really interesting is Ben in return of the Jedi I mean he's like a a space ghost right yeah he Ben is ghost he comes back as a talk show host he's like a blue hologram right he talks a little bit and stuff yeah what's he say like use the force probably I don't remember okay Teddy bears to use the force is he in Empire Strikes Back who Obi-Wan really yeah he doesn't he's dead by then he doesn't show up oh you're right yeah he's dead he dies in the first one right yeah yeah the fourth one rather alright don't wanna makes people up eight episodes of the Obi-Wan Kenobi show so I said let's film four and then four more but turns out there's only six by the time you get to the sixth episode I was actually enjoying it more than I had the previous episodes because I was like hey it actually feels like it's going somewhere I wonder what my brain my brain he just can't do this well that's one way to approach assessments whether or not stuff is happening going in here I was liking it because it was going somewhere so with the train to Auschwitz just because you're going somewhere doesn't mean it's a good thing there's a lot of movies that don't go anywhere so that's usually bad in a movie or a tv show I wish most of the new mcu things never went anywhere the problem with a lot of those movies is that they go everywhere so much all the time now I need to know it's better than not going anywhere though what's the definition of going somewhere is this like have the film depicting them changing location or going somewhere move from room to room like so the plot moving forward yes that's what I would think he means the story there's some conflict trying to overcome a challenge a challenge well here's the problem things do move forward in episode 1, 2, 3, 4 they're definitely going somewhere what is the challenge where are things going let us know for people who haven't watched this episode 1 is what you could call the call to adventure I guess he's told being a hermit on Tatooine the layer is kidnapped and he's the one that's got to get her and the episode mostly shows you what he's been up to this whole time then the call to adventure and then him accepting it and the episode ends with him getting on to a transport to go get it episode 2 he infiltrates where she's kept captured, breaks her out of there and the episode ends with him relying on someone he barely trusts to get out of there and he narrowly escapes a sitting quiz to try and get him episode 3 episode 4 the movie episode 3 is before episode 4 yeah okay but this is a TV show Kenobi we're talking about right when I say episodes I'm referring to the TV show episodes right no I understand that but the whole series takes place the whole series takes place between Star Wars episode 3 Revenge of the Sith and Star Wars episode 4 a new hope okay gotcha look I'm just trying to get straight keep going I can hear I can hear look I want to know I remember Star Wars it's about nine years before a new hope look Adam I'm offended you I'm not sure we can be friends anymore I was very I saw the pre-equals I was very upset I tried to block it out of my memory so I don't I vaguely remember the third pre-equal it was like the lava planet one right so that's a creation of Vader yeah so okay so this takes place after that yeah well okay they're escaping across this new planet they're on and Vader personally lands and comes after Kenobi and they have a big fight Obi-Wan narrowly escapes and Lair is captured he's got a that is episode 4 are you gonna break her out of this stupid inquisitor base or is that 5 no hold on here you're supposed to know this stuff yep no episode 4 is when they're in yeah yeah because he breaks her out of the base because then they get chased to that other base yeah there's lots of they infiltrate a base to break out Lair in episode 4 and Wade dies not Wade Wade I was rough and when Wade died I was gonna say that was a weird delayed reaction from all of you I thought he was your favorite character yeah he was that's why there was a delayed reaction it's like my heart had to catch up dealing with my heart right yeah I was just sort of like dumbstruck when he roughs name I just didn't know what to I guess I'm sorry for bringing that up actually that's tender you know you need to put a trigger warning whenever you bring up Wade's death yeah that's the 4 episodes they were talking about where nothing happened although it's not going anywhere I guess ouch I think it's bad but I wouldn't have said it's not going anywhere he's supposed to get Lair back and that's over those 4 episodes he is a lot of stuff happened it was just all crap mm-hmm I guess to Jay just seeing Obi-Wan and Vader fight each other we got this in episode 3 they fought and then neither of them died with their chunky lightsabers my overall opinion hasn't really changed much I still like it other than the other than the Mandalorian season 1 this is the most I've liked Star Wars in the last 35 years it's so depressing so fucking depressing Obi is the worst of the shows and I don't even think it's clothing listen the expectations for Star Wars are so low that they're like battered spouses okay they're just like please anything unironically the prequels are just better than Kenobi wow okay wow that's a bold claim that would be tough for these guys to admit even if they believe the prequels are better than a lot of things I'm gonna have to watch Kenobi now I know save yourself wait Shad where do you think it's better the prequels or the sequels oh prequels what do you think about that Sitch correct why are you asking I said the prequels are better now because of the meme quality you've asked me this question which one do you think is better from a story teller quality I know it's just I'm gonna make you fight the sword man it's happening the prequels are both dog shit that's great that's not what I asked you though which one is better from a storytelling standpoint the prequels or the sequels prequels from a storytelling storytelling perspective well it's kind of cheating well it's kind of cheating because the third sequel is like completely incoherent that's not cheating answer the question I think that average is out just the prequels on that alone was you saying the prequels are better storytelling oh yeah sure there we go chat we got him yeah Adam and Sitch it's the first time I've been in a stream with Sitch and Adam and I don't even get into a heated debate you won the debate it's not really winning a debate if you ask me a question and I agree hey hey Sitch don't rub this from me oh my god don't mind chat chat chat you are fine because Sitch is already on record just having said the storytelling the prequels and sequels was either just as bad or the prequels lost out that opinion has changed now so I'm very satisfied you did it Shad none of that just makes me respect you guys more you know you're able to learn from your evil ways and repent what do you think is the most important aspect of storytelling oh no consistency obviously obviously yeah exactly that's a really good answer glad to hear that there's a lot of thought I can tell when the character changes at the end of the story I fucking hate that oh my god is this the fabled argument you spent the entire movie building up a character and then they change at the very end of the movie and do you think that is indicative of any consistency yes it is remember when Han Solo came back to help his friends oh my god yes I just want to know before we stop do you agree with him no don't we're talking we talked about this don't be honest don't be honest don't be honest you said the quiet pot loud I need to put on a cup of tea or something that's gonna take a while we're allowed to troll you guys come on you guys just made us watch a whole troll this is a no trolling zone that was not a troll video I still don't believe that yeah I don't believe it I need to sign affidavit from the video maker we were told by people that you had an argument you wanted to give was it just a troll I'm sad now what do you mean probably I keep telling people to tell you false arguments to rile you up what about the real ones you would do that to us I mean not to you Fringy but tomorrow I would come on be offended on my behalf well look alright I want to use the advantage I have of being respected a little bit more to just have this conversation forward I didn't say that literally just said I'm not my perspective that's not my opinion somebody just did a really good Fringy impression no I'm not using it as though it's true as written into the fabric of reality I'm saying this is a perspective that seems to be being espoused and I'm just trying to leverage it you're saying you believe it you're leveraging it I'm leveraging it for the time being before we can dispel it listen Fringy is just being very consistent hey look alright wouldn't it be at two Fringe Fringe I don't think so that's so good I like it well okay you like character arcs right Adam that's what you like what look at this do you like character arcs I fucking hate character arcs usually movies I'm not down with characters changing because of the movie but to be consistent they should stay the same throughout the entire movie I can't tell when you're meaning or not I think he's being serious I'm being serious he's saying he's serious but I think him saying he's serious is also a meme he's doing a bit look I'm telling you consistency is king I don't want characters that learn from their experience in the movie okay why do you think it's inconsistent for a character to change over time do you know did you know really change rags okay that's a myth you understand that if a car is going down the road at 60 miles an hour it's not accelerating right Han Solo is a scoundrel okay I don't want the scoundrel with a heart of gold for having said first of all rags you must have hated the Force Awakens of course I did you're constantly slightly accelerating and de-accelerating okay because you're not holding your foot perfectly at 60 when you're driving oh actually you're revolving on a spherical earth which means you're changing your vector so technically you are accelerating that's right apparently you don't understand revising polarity so yeah if you reverse the polarity of the piloscavator inside of the technical manifold device then inside of the car that's a good point you dingers meme Mahler I am fascinated by your your objective way of looking at movies so I think it's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to him I think it is totally amazing and I completely agree that there should be an internal logic and an internal consistency within movies the whole thing is I've thought about this a lot more since the last time we talked about it and also I don't believe you I believe you I came up with a character arc thing exactly that's a new argument you kind of came up with that on the spot it sounded like you came up with that on the spot do you wonder do you wonder if the way the reason that they can get away with all these inconsistencies in movies like the multiverse of madness or whatever it is is because just audiences are dumber like they can't really catch all of these inconsistencies because they're not really paying attention what was that say though about if we can all concede that there are higher class, lower class or higher quality and low quality foods and yet the populace like gorge on mcdonalds yes exactly maybe there's a lot we can conclude there in an allegorical sense you know totally yes it is the best food of movies these days they're just looking at the pictures right they're not really following the story yeah and I don't actually there's people so this is the big thing I've offended some people from my new video because I make a comment about window liquors enjoying multiverse of madness maybe I didn't do a good enough job of explaining you offended the window liquors window looking crowd I might not have been clear enough on what I was talking about it's I don't mind I'm offended it's totally fine to be able to enjoy this stuff as well as enjoying mcdonalds I'm saying they make this stuff for the people to talk about how great it is when it absolutely is shite the only people that will do that like no offense but I think if someone's going to praise multiverse of madness for its incredible writing something's wrong it would be like oh I doubt Michael Waldron would be happy if you're like yeah shit but I mean I enjoyed it like it was tasty shit but it was shit I doubt Michael Waldron would be happy with that of course it's like the mcdonalds of movies it made a lot of money one thing I say there in the video is like I don't believe anybody when going through this movie in detail would praise its script now someone could be like wow seriously I just don't if you went through I'm doing you a favor by saying I don't think you would that's kind of where I'm going with that the comment was supposed to reflect the idea that it's made for people that I wish were in the positions of they watch multiverse of madness you're like wow what great cinema you know Martin I'm with you man these are just really shitty roller coasters if you meant exactly what I'm talking about I'm not going to change his words he dug his own grave with the statements we've been over this a million times I'm just saying that I didn't mean to say that anybody who enjoys multiverse of madness must be retarded or something no you could enjoy all kinds of things that are very good that's probably true though I enjoy plenty of things that are really badly written I have a higher opinion of retards than some of you how you contextualize it though if I said the room was incredibly well written and I was citing my experiences with it I would be like oh there's something wrong with me that's why I'm missing that's not what I'm saying but I am saying if people are going to start arguing that then there's something wrong I really liked it fine with anybody I can cite reasons to enjoy multiverse of madness there's plenty such as I like some of the shots I like seeing Professor Axe look at him go impressively see him get his head blown they could enjoy some of the action set pieces yeah there's explosions in there there's big tentacle monsters to those cool my perception my perception of a lot of normie kind of just movie watchers and stuff is that and this isn't to insult them they don't have very high standards for what they will enjoy and I'm reflecting this on me because when I was younger I didn't need much for me to enjoy a film if I had a cool action fight in it I would enjoy it and just with my growth just maturing as well but learning about writing is on top of that now and also when I experience something truly good like exceptionally good and the enjoyment and entertainment I get out of that versus a lot of the other films that I've watched suddenly that kind of resets my standards even on a subconscious level and I want that quality again and then I'm comparing it against something as a standard and it's revealing all the flaws in the other stuff I watched but yeah when I go back to when I was younger if it just had some cool action fight scenes I would think that's a great movie I really fun and I think a lot of people are in that mindset but for the most people even with that it's the analogy like you don't need to be a master pianist to be able to tell if someone can't play the piano well that they might not be able to pick out the exact reasons you know why or even know the flaws of say multiverse of madness right but I don't think nearly anyone is ever going to say multiverse of madness even normies are going to say that it's as good as Lord of the Rings or something truly exceptional I think even on a subconscious level most people have this perception of quality where it's like they know something that's truly good versus something that was just sludgy McDonald's you know popcorn flick you have to have a lot of other ancillary information though to to realize that there's logical inconsistencies in some of these Marvel movies unless you're like super paying attention well I mean I watched I'm about halfway through your your video on multiverse of madness Mahler and I mean some of the things you pick out I mean I don't know the Marvel Universe well enough to know that they're breaking some you know logical rule that's totally fair the only thing is that a lot of their payoffs and like drawing meaning from their basing that on your knowledge of previous events as well cause what they do is they draw from what they want they don't draw from what they have to draw from as a result of drawing from what they want so you're literally missing the payoff because you don't know the setup yeah I would argue as much as you're correct that a lot of people will miss the inconsistencies because they're not familiar enough with all the content this is based on they will also miss a lot of the points being made that are meaningful because they're not familiar enough with the payoff it's something like a character arc I mean a lot of people can intuitively pick that up even if I mean it's either there or it's not they see that the character has changed some of the reviews because I did check out a lot of them some of the reviews were just saying outright like Dr. Strange does not have an arc in this film and I was a little bit baffled by it because I felt like they were fucking they shotgun blasted into my face all these different things at once so it's just so what the fuck is going on with this character I don't even mean in terms of overtness I mean that they did when you have a line like are you happy Steven it's like yeah what are we doing but the thing is I don't blame them for thinking there's no arc because you don't know what to connect that to in the film other than right at the end Wong just goes yeah I'm happy yeah so you're like what are we then then you can pay that it's unearned I don't think I put this in the video but in the behind the scenes Michael Waldron talks about how maybe the next film will address the happy stuff and it's just that's good maybe yeah I did include the quote though where he said maybe what makes Doctor Strange happy is not being a hero which is one of the most bizarre fucking comments I don't even I think I say in the video like what am I supposed to do with that what what do you mean yeah it was weird because they kept trying to compare Steven to Wanda like they're both characters who yeah you know regret past life choices they made you know and then they compare Steve to you know alternate Steve and I was like why don't they just make they should just made Doctor Strange the bad guy like that was what they were going for to fight this alternate version of self who and then maybe this you know maybe this Steven Strange is becoming jaded is becoming like that would have been so much more interesting if he actually like you could see him going on the path of the alternate you know Steven strange there at all in this movie you're asking for much more focus from what we got that's for sure I mean I know you know absolutely right movie you could make it about like you know this Steven is gone dark he took over the maybe not the world but you know why not you could have taken over the will you decide he took control of a lot of the major powers just like in the script you have you know the other Steven regrets his choices and he's you know doing the Rick and Morty going to alternate universe was to hop in and he's fucking everything up because he's you know he's just selfish and then you see this Steve you know he's at the wedding with Christine and he's like going down this path he's starting to wonder like why am I doing all this stuff some guy in the streets people on the street are like shitting on him for not saving enough people during the Thanos fight like you could really build that up well the point I wasn't trying to make was that there's some level of an approach with evil strange where he's gone mad with power or taken things too far right so you have our character gets to compare himself but even if you were to say like yeah we can't do that because all this other stuff going on it's like well you still have what they call sinister strange or whatever you're still in this movie so we can still do something with it right Michael's like I want to make him a person who will kill himself if he doesn't have a girlfriend that is that is so fucking wrong you're just sort of like Michael why did you write it that way why was it give me your Christine dude that but you love me if you give her to me when you realize the big fight is literally over him trying to steal his girlfriend you're like what the fuck are we doing I will shoot your school break I swear to God so lame isn't it someone in Chaz that I relate to that yeah fair enough if he had the dark hole then why couldn't he just conjure up a Christine that loves him like Wanda no that's hex powers to do that the dark hole just all the dark hole can do is summon crazy monster constructs in other universes rags that's all it can do it's not even a monster who loves you that's what's important it's not what's on the outside wait in the Steven that's in like the destroyed universe is that his original universe is that the universe he went to it's just one of the universes he went to that are destroyed it's not the original one now how is he going through universe to universe you got knocked in there by Wanda who mind control for some reason no no no how about the evil dr. strange evil dr. strange destroyed his own universe because he dreamwalked too much except there's still oxygen on earth wait I thought dreamwalking wasn't the problem I thought it was actually going into the universe dreamwalking also is part of it I'm pretty sure yeah no yeah yeah it reads as when you dreamwalk you were destroying the universe you're going to and your own and yet meanwhile they didn't give a shit that Wanda was about to come by a dreamwalk they overtly say they just don't give a fuck which is so weird yes because they do not handle her for anybody who doesn't well that's right one of them gets his head blown up with his own power and the other one gets turned into spaghetti they both get their heads blown up that's true his head gets blown up after she disassembles him from his feet up causing him excruciating pain for no reason whatsoever yeah Wanda has the Doctor Strange power problem where like one second she can do whatever the fuck she wants the next second she's like a door I can't get past this door I just want to emphasize when the storm is bearing reach she's going to have to bury a bunch of spaghetti in a box that's what he gets spaghetti on a plate hey at least there is a body to bury unlike that guy who got disintegrated in Kamataj while he was screaming for his life she'll be a hero again and we're meant to just ignore all these things why not of course we're not going to ignore them Doctor Strange will say you did the right thing in the end she threw him off a cliff just because he was like putting out how reaction she was he did the right thing in the end she did the right thing in the end by drawing the tool that Doctor Strange used to save the multiverse which is the right thing they should have straight up murdered her she didn't deserve to have a redemption she's cold begin to sell her yeah literally a dark hold as in dark destroy it he's coming back it changes people I can't believe that she's coming back wait she's not dead she's too popular a character is too popular to a lot of people to window liquors I liked her before this before WandaVision she was fine character after WandaVision that was when she got super duper popular she became totally evil and raped people's mind she became very popular there's a lot of audience members that like that shit I don't know they like mine rapist that's her thing now it's a very specific fetish but yeah it's like well it's the most thing about it she's pretty she was an ugly man they wouldn't have liked the mine rape okay if Captain Marvel had intervened at any point during the spaghettification Reed probably could have made a full recovery considering the nature of it they watched because their best friend got well not their best friend but one of their acquaintances got disintegrated into little spaghetti you know I saw a comment that said I agree with mostly everything there's a couple of bits you fucked up on and I was just like alright what have we got he was like keep asking why doesn't WandaTin you know Strange and Wong for example where she was like I don't want to go to spaghetti when she did it to Reed but you clearly have missed she can only turn him into spaghetti because he's stretchy to begin with how does she how does she shred him up I think they missed the important point I don't really give a fuck if she actually turns them into spaghetti or not it's the killing of him instantly is really the most I'm just trying to visualize if that's the case what would it look like if she tried to do that same spell on a regular person it would be like a blender just bread it would be more effective really the wish you vaporize is the guy on the floor and the fortress just use that that looks like a pretty powerful ability I'd be using that one more instead she's hiding a beautiful much pain to this man who said that he has a wife and kids and then by all accounts seems to be a hero from what little I understand about him he's not obviously like given what we know about the Illuminati but still yeah the film I guess they killed their own Dr. Strange Dr. Strange did and I remember that Dr. Strange did kill like the universe of people though he's not evil he did that by accident he had no idea but so he asked to die I don't know I'd fight with that he felt the overwhelming guilt a guy felt the overwhelming guilt of literally killing countless like lies that's not why he was killed he felt guilty about it they're explicit they killed him because he might dream again and destroy a universe they explicitly say that they should have done it for guilt I don't kill what I'm talking about you could feel guilty because you did something that you had absolutely no reason to believe was even possible or a thing that's not a reason for you to be like yeah you guys better kill me no I'm saying he could be so he could feel such guilt in such like he's just so depressed why would they agree to do it for you why would they be like yeah instead of telling him he couldn't have possibly known because listen sometimes you know you gotta do a homie a solid you gotta do a homie a solid no you suck him off you don't fucking annihilate him with your magic powers I was about to say the main issue is their logic they don't even tell us why he agreed it was his worry that he would do it again so yeah they think there's a chance he might use the dark hold to dream walk again and destroy a universe when he explicitly tells them the second he found out he did damage he told them and he felt immense guilt and he swore off the dark hold oh okay then there's like nothing more than he could have possibly done and that's what I said in the video I was like what exactly do you expect from this man he's done everything possible to rectify his he's fucked he didn't know that was gonna but it did how do you destroy a universe the reason why they discover incursions the reason why they know that that's a thing that can happen is because it happened after he dreamwalked there did not was a thing before that when you think about it it's probably a damn good thing that someone like him discovered that's what happened because if somebody else discovered that they might not have never learned that was even a thing or reported it to people that could potentially do something about it wait a minute I thought the danger was like if he walked into another unit or went into another universe he would bring the universe he's from crashing into the universe the other universe so shouldn't their universe be fucked up too well read said it destroys them both or destroys one that's what he said I don't well how would he wait but it's only happened once well how would he how could he say that because I bring this up in the video I said how could he know it destroys your own universe has your universe been destroyed like that doesn't make any fucking sense they do this throughout such they're like if you take America's power she'll die how do you know that have you done that before right and then it's like it might take your power I can control it that card how do you know that you just have a feeling there is a person who has that ability she is the only person in the known multiverse who can travel but apparently it's a power that can be extracted and it's a power that you know well if you do that but it kills them and you know that maybe she's just suicidal if she loses her power take my power and I'll kill myself you don't know why was her name America she's from some weird alternate dimension coincidence I didn't even have America in it coincidence what's she's from a universe with an America like country because Vespucci America still discovered in all universes Vespucci America America still one of the things that we floated as an old you know in these alternate universes what if you did something that was even like not related to the Marvel Cinematic Universe like a universe where I don't know Spain went all the way up like the east coast of the United States and so when they land in New York it's not New York it's like New Madrid or something and and because she can speak Spanish she can be the guide through this universe while Doctor Strange you know it's just not equipped to navigate it but they all you did was flash through all of these interesting alternate universes so we ended up in the boring universe and floating debris universe I really thought the movie was going to be like them going to like crazy alternate universes we wanted to chase them and we're going to go to this one alternate universe so the problem is that you try and that's it well we thought that The Mandalorian would be a really cool show about an awesome bounty hunter a little Degenerate a little thing we know would be about fucking babies so wait how does this mesh with the Loki show is that a Loki show? so is the Loki show only alternate timelines or is this just completely retroning the entire Michael Waldron it's alternate timelines is what you could jump between in like the basic universes it's different you can only have one timeline but you can have an infinite number you can have multiple timelines well you can have there are people there are people who defend this shit who as far as they're concerned it's like baseline is timelines and then in those timelines there are universes and then in each of those universes there are dimensions and then in each of those dimensions there are realms even though Loki explicitly said that the different timelines would lead to a war showing all of the different timelines clashing with each other timelines are multi-verses that's it that's it and they say as a part of the defense so something you have to accept if you want to believe this is that all of the sorcerers are retarded in Doctor Strange because all their dialogue in that film doesn't make any sense anymore so you have to just agree that they're all idiots and they don't know how any of it works one of the comments I covered was like oh yeah they don't even know about timelines in Doctor Strange and it's like did you see Endgame Ancient One knows about it she's very familiar with it in fact well she's dead and Doctor Strange didn't tell anyone about it because you know he forgot the fact that Bruce is trying to explain to a white easter that she explains to him how timelines will get fucked the sorcerers don't know anything about it like why can't you just accept they fucked it they fucked it they have no idea what they're doing you're just being nitpicky and biased Doctor Strange 2 was very fantastic hey we've got a job to do and that is to see Red Letter Media's bad Star Wars takes that's true yeah cause I've only got like 40 minutes left good to get some of this out of the way oh also hi Evan how you doing yeah hi by the way looks like I came in the right time what's the most important element of media itself and then Star Wars prequels versus sequels it's like alright awesome what's going on the most important conversation I don't know it's like four in the morning I feel like I should leave wow sick get this show to do tomorrow we have to stream for 12 hours tomorrow we still have to stream for 12 hours we have to stream for 8 to 10 hours surely I'm banking my situation at important we can do like 30 hours been provided by appearing on your show it's like we're trading hours oh I see for every hour you've been on our stream we have to be on your stream for an equal time yes you're enslaved equivalent exchange does we want you to come on our show and do like the fight club video so I mean when do we go over into UOS time that's what I want to know what is the fight club video it's a good question it's a video about how Edward Norton is the fictional character and Brad Pitt character is the real character it's Maggie May Fish made a crazy fight club video that's just insane okay so you disagree with her assessment what are you saying we totally agree with her feminist perspective I knew it our gender studies degrees are finally coming to use here so excited well I mean yeah just all you need to do is go on that twitter thing and then send me a message and be like this is the date can you do it and then if I say no you move it well we'll do it we'll do it you have been very generous coming on our show a lot of times but we'll just ask for you I saw you upload the all the covers are just bad at you Adam how do you feel what are you talking about well to be fair they've mad at all of you actually on our channel it doesn't bother me at all I want to see I want to see the one on one the destiny vs mauler one on one which I mean I was trying to facilitate that conversation but it wasn't really happening well you see Sargon had to talk about the mono myth and Aiden had to talk about the legacy you were talking about how we don't want to see our heroes drinking milk or something you don't want to see our heroes doing stupid shit I mean that's solid right that's good advice stupid drinking milk or is it just alien milk if it's like alien titty milk I'm like crazy I don't know we've had conversations about this before why are you drinking it but this is why destiny can like fucking dagger you in the back when you say stuff like that because look at them, look at them forgiven right wait you probably haven't seen them have you seen them forgiven destiny strawmans all the time hey, hey, hey stay on topic stop drinking milk what look at this poll yeah that's the one with with uh yeah the good bad and the ugly guy Clint Eastwood yeah that's it do you remember that film opens with him in pig shit falling over several times do you remember this I believe so yeah he's regarded as one of the greatest westerns of all time well yeah because he's like there's a story there okay wait give me what's that it sounds like you don't know what point I'm making you guys seriously like not picking up I haven't seen the unforgiven so I don't even know what you're talking about what I'm saying is you can contextualize you're saying Clint Eastwood looked embarrassing in this movie in the beginning and people liked it this is why you gotta not give destiny when you just say in isolation I can't see my hero drinking teddy milk it just it sounds like he's just gonna ignore it cause it's like in context it might work there are examples where it could you gotta like reframe it and get to the fundamentals before and to be honest with you you want to get every last reference out of impossible seriously I said this on the stream when he provided you the um the assessment of uh premonitions he was done he told you the premonitions were like in stone which was just false there's no how they work that's why he said he was straw manning cause obviously that's not true all I'm saying is like he hung himself and you just gotta throw it all back and uh it's the best way to get it I want you to do that I tried I know no one would shut us out we can monetize it in a different way we can monetize it so the conversation the screener gets close to resolution cause it's like we got good content for the next stream I know it's got that content brain your very content brain is dead in what you would say listen y'all gotta did you bring up the unforgiven algorithm I'm really talking about the pig shit is that the only reason you brought up the unforgiven well so my point is just that that film it's making a lot of points in regards to how that scene is actually being do you like that film? I mean I feel like that film's really overrated it's one of my favorite film all the time which film unforgiven oh that's a masterpiece that's such a fucking good movie I don't it's not a bad movie I mean I just it's just horribly overrated it won I think it won best picture for I don't care what it won I don't remember but I was like oh wow well look it up it's not tell us tell us tell us what were the competitors I mean I feel like it was a giant year too it was like a lot of really good movies got made and unforgiven I was like I was 1993 wasn't it 1992 so it was unforgiven a few good men Howard's End and Sensible Woman those were the other ones I mean I've seen a couple of those I was caught in the hood did Crying Game beat it because Crying Game won too but I guess maybe won like unforgiven one best picture maybe it won a different category overrated huh overrated oh I mean unforgiven are you saying are you saying that the Academy Awards isn't it's like the be-all and end-all of selecting best movie of the year well I said it was overrated I didn't bring up I'm using I'm using the Academy Awards as the exact reason why I think it is overrated because I don't know it's a good movie but I don't think it's like best picture but you're saying one out over other films well yeah yeah I'd understand it if you had in stone like I never should have won best picture over and then suggested a film do you really think you shouldn't have won over any of those examples I don't really yeah I don't think so well I mean I all of those all of those movies I would say are overrated you think a few good men is better than not well that doesn't matter what you say it lost to the other movies that's a different point if you're suggesting that none of them should have won best picture because they're all overrated that one of them has to though yeah one of them is the best a few good men I think is better than yeah you're rocking I like a few good men a few good a few good men is better than yeah unforgiving I would say alright fair enough I mean it's I think a few good men is a little overrated too though so I mean it's I mean it's no it's no rubber so it's no fubber Adam I'm asking you right now what is the best film of all time what's your opinion best film I don't see I don't know that I could pick like a best I don't look at the world in that way Chad I think it's totally fair because I don't know what I mean I like the movie Your Highness a lot is that that's a good one how about the other guys you guys like the movie the other guys I like that movie quite a bit I mean that could be my favorite joke about was the aim for the bushes and there were no bushes the plot armor ran out look you gotta love it they stayed consistent right you look down you see no bushes and then they're dead so that's consistent that's totally consistent no bushes you're like looking down as they're going and you're like I remember we had when Will Ferrell's character explained very logically that the line going out of his way to eat the tuna gives the tuna a taste of and they develop apparatus made of kelp so they go on the land and hunt the lions to extinction the tuna exactly they don't have that in any in a few good men they don't have scenes like that it's not even close that is true yeah the unforgiven doesn't have the they don't do a desk pop in the unforgiven I don't remember once yeah they just shoot people yeah they have a saloon pop there's no male bonding come on there's no little river band I think there is male bonding in unforgiven I guess there is some but it's a little I don't know it's a little okay a little bit you kinda wonder you're like is this movie gonna go full break back mountain break back mountain oh broke back mountain past tense broke it's a good you know since you're an approved dancer you'd go with fight club alright fine break back mountain is what Jake fight club is good the best movie of all time is the rockets here I haven't seen a movie why don't we go through everybody's choices for best film of all time what we got yeah let's hear it we go right to left start with meme oh well we got we're talking best or favorites whatever you want best is hard to meditate on that for like a week alright fine we'll go with favorite okay favorite disease here it's a toss up like between Highlander and Terminator 2 it really is sometimes it sneaks in there depending on my mood but yeah there's a lot of good ones out there well alright that's fair enough Shad what about you well it's a tough one it would be if it's favorite it's a toss up really between a night's tale and Robin Hood Prince of Thieves wow a nice tale I love it like it's actually like this is the thing there are inaccuracies many evil things that people think I get hung up on but in terms of just the sheer lighthearted joy and fun of the film I love it fair enough well there's not a lot of like light happy medieval movies yeah they're often you know usually pretty miserable I mean Robin Hood I guess that's really lighthearted I really watched Prince of Thieves the other day it's narrated by a pop star probably good film Rags will be so this is favorite fellowship of the ring the safe choice I would like to give an honorable mention to the rescuers down under though all are just called you a fucking pussy oh yeah fucking pussy is exactly what I get when I tell them that the fellowship of the ring is my favorite movie oh I guess that makes the panties drunk make some drop like a ring in a river one of my one of my all time favorite I got to throw this out there as well the first how to train your dragon I love that film it's pretty cool it's top tier first how to train your dragon loved it it's good I think the first kung fu panda is better I think the first kung fu panda is better kung fu panda is amazing yeah that's a good movie I reckon there's deeper character work in how to train your dragon so the relationship particularly the relationship between pick up and his dad so I think I would agree I think that's what I would say about how to train your dragon is if we talk about pick up and his relationship with his dad and toothless I think that's pretty strong I don't know how much I would pull from everybody else though in terms of character work whereas I think I could pull more from tai long or tai yeah and tai gris and um shifu as well good point good point my counter then to try and give one more point to how to train your dragon I think the humor in it is more sophisticated and therefore enjoyable because it doesn't rely on some I mean the humor in kung fu panda is great but some of the humor in how to train your dragon just works really well and it's I would say that how to train your dragon is more restrained in terms of the humor that it's not trying as hard to be funny that's why it works for me I think it's something that works in the films favour I like the tone it's going for where it's trying to take itself a little bit more seriously I think kung fu panda is thematically very strong even if it's a really straightforward message I think it's a strong one I mean just that line how to train dragon look it's not what's on the outside it's what's on the inside that he can't stand about you thanks thanks oh it's great dragon has a great soundtrack though when the music kicked in I was actually surprised I'm like this is really good yeah it's a cool movie you have an honourable mention sitch outside of back club for favourites yeah Americans side go up there Shawshanks up there what do you think of 7 I like 7 but not anywhere near as much as other people do people really like 7 I'm like it's okay I really liked I was obsessed with snatch when I was younger that's a good movie I haven't seen it in a while yeah I love snatch at all my number one is prestige number 2 is t2, number 3 is aliens prestige is amazing not even overrated or anything prestige is underrated by a long shot I can't believe people don't love that movie that movie is freaking amazing and it's so cool that they I mean he carries the theme of you know I'm just going to tell it like it is all the way through and he basically does but you don't want to believe it so I mean the psychology of the movie is even better so yeah way underrated my it's hard to pick a number 1 I usually default to 7 Private Ryan, Hot Fuzz Terminator 2 and I throw in like Wally and the Incredibles would be up there as well those are all yes all fucking great all amazing all better than the forgiven well I forgive all better than the unforgiven see look I don't even I'm blocking it out I hate that movie so much my go to example for years has been Groundhog Day that's my favorite movie honorable mentions probably go to Whiplash and Dr. Strangelove those tend to be my Dr. Strangel and my butthole was already whiplash is a strong contender as well I adore that film simple like bear bones everything about it like on a film making just the cinematography music everything is just top notch that's like one of the best made films I think I've seen Whiplash is incredibly focused and yeah it has a great score the overture for that I think a lot of focus ends up on the music that is in the film like diegetically but I think the overture is awesome like the theme for that film not to mention like the subtle musical cues like when he's just practicing the drums you just get those little like it's almost like music and the shining it's like yeah it uses sound very well alrighty well my turn as much as you've been talking shit ton I guess you can go on a little bit more and tell us about your favorite movie let's hear it I was also going to pick Groundhog Day not even as a favorite I think it's one of the best movies ever made just love Rodney's awesome it's just brilliant everywhere I can go on that length about that one but um choose something else I guess I gotta stick with it we move me if any of you've heard of Red Line I really like that movie I saw that recently that's that that's that racing movie right like the animated racing it's all in 2D right exactly yep when you watch that movie like if you've not seen Red Line watch it like you will not believe that it's all in 2D so like 3D or animation like it looks totally impressive looks pretty good well um alright do we end up, you don't need to ask Adam right well I mean I already threw some out but I mean no one mentioned the matrix I think the first matrix is like pretty flawless but really cool movie I think Theo doesn't like that he thinks it's too easy and the fourth is like an abomination what do you mean what else would you pick the fourth matrix what do you mean what do I mean come on they took back the red pill it was awesome please please yeah what are the favorites you got Adam the matrix I mean everyone mentioned are like really good movies the prestige is pretty awesome just saying nobody mentioned Time Bandit so I really like Terry Gilliam I like the movie Time Bandits I think it's one of the few movies interesting what about Interstellar Interstellar I think Interstellar is good but I do think it's overrated there's a question we agree it's overrated wait is it Interstellar I mean if we want to talk about best robots Interstellar is definitely on the map better than better than Unforgiven obviously okay what about Tenet is Tenet better than Unforgiven Tenet Tenet is amazing yeah maybe we know tenet tenet I mean just Tenet is so cool but it's just like it's it fails a logically consistent I mean I know you guys aren't gonna like it because it's like inconsistent but still haven't seen it well we can like movies without them being consistent we just don't think they'll be good well I know movies that I really really love that are very flawed Tenet just I just I like the idea of Tenet and Tenet is a movie like I've watched it multiple times and yeah I really like Tenet Tenet is a movie I've watched it multiple times my problem is the whole idea thing comes down to them not like delivering on that idea that's like why I've got so many problems with that they set up like rules about how the inversion stuff works but when they start breaking all those rules then you're like what am I watching the movie for you can't deliver on it though but the whole idea is I mean it really is cool having scenes where some people are moving forward in the scene and some people are moving backward in the scene so I mean that is the just a filmmakers dream setup and I think you know obviously Nolan probably came up with that idea long before he started trying to work out a script where they could actually realize that thing but yeah it doesn't work you have to shut your brain and they even throw a scene in the beginning where they're basically like don't think about it too much there's so many scenes like there's so many lines where they're like hey don't think about it feel it it doesn't matter grandfather it's like thanks you don't like you can hear the dialogue in that film you don't like I use subtitles on the blue I use subtitles wait how did they know what was being said what's it what's your take on the cartridge what if they didn't I mean it explained the character choices in the movie okay because like in the cinema I came out going I don't know if that was a good or bad film or not because I couldn't fucking hear a single word they were saying so I can't determine if it's internally consistent or not and it doesn't help the movie so complicated oh yeah I didn't have any problem to sound I read a lot of people didn't like the sound thing but I mean I didn't see it in the movie theater maybe they worked the sound out when I saw it I didn't have an issue with the sound I mean it's definitely easier to hear like on headphones we don't want to think that we're overrated the law unique takes from Adam I look I said I love the prestige what more do you want you also said interstellar was better than that is a is that not I mean we're all allowed to have our oh so when you say stupid shit suddenly we're all allowed to have a pigeon when do you say that to vosh huh what is he allowed a pigeon well it's different with vosh vosh is like promoting communism which is obviously never worked I mean that's similar to saying interstellar was better than listen listen like in communism has led to billions of deaths okay like interstellar over the deaths of many brains excuse me hasn't killed anybody yet yes and then there was a dictator that rose up and what was his favorite movie the interstellar we really like interstellar when that dude okay then I would renounce him and he just stood there and then let himself get killed by the white instead of getting in the ship that inspired me to enter into politics almost killed watching that with him in the fabric of reality yeah let's go to cool soundtrack that's for sure absolutely very cool soundtrack look he is the guy in the bookcase come on ah yes because you can breathe in a black hole there is oxygen for it's weather that is suitable for human beings um and also you just knocked to the daddy have you never been to the 5th dimension before did they call I haven't been to the 5th dimension so I could just be talking out my arse here really lovely this time of year I don't think you're still correct clearly christened for dole and found a way to get there and wrote down everything he observed where do you think he shot the scenes what did you think he shot that's true talking to space talking about dedication to the craft going into a black hole I was impressed relatively it took hundreds of years to make that movie also we have mr. m here why don't you tell us what your favorite movie is also yeah let's hear my favorite movie yes my favorite movie is kung fu panda unequivocal oh wow it's okay it's okay I would put kung fu panda and the emperors new groove right up there that's an unconventional choice I love the emperors new groove emperors new groove is great I'll say yeah it's kind of an unconventable like does anybody not like that film it's like I don't know anybody who how could you not like that film it's hilarious dude it's only a matter of time before that gets a live action remake from this movie treasure planet oh treasure planet oh I love treasure planet they're gonna come for treasure planet they're gonna come they're gonna start taking the ones that are lesser known but like have a specific audience live action titan ai titan ai is one of brothers isn't it or might wait titan ai was titan ai was one of brothers wasn't it it might be you know what they're gonna do live action versions of all the tv series from the 90s that were based on the film so you're gonna get like the live action version of the emperors new school oh yeah no that's the worst one of brothers has shown a willingness to pillage the iron giant I wouldn't rule that out either as a possibility live action fritz the cat dude uh fast forward like 50 years where they pillage like everything eventually would be like oh no they're coming for dude where's my car they've never touched it it'll become clear how long this era of pillaging the animated films is when frozen gets its live action remake which will happen eventually or tank it they already tried to play with that in the live action tv series once upon a time right they did it well yeah cause that's ABC which disney owns so if you're right they're already dabbled in it but that is happening that'll definitely happen live action bracket Ralph well eventually they'll pillage Pixar right so we'll get live action toy story I wouldn't put it past the live action pretty sure they're already doing live action what about a live action small soldier do you think they'll ever do that hahahaha so anyway I have 10 minutes left to do this video just so we're clear um well uh you can see some of it some is everybody in the watch together I always have to I'm looking for it I don't know where it is oh wow useless that's where he posts the link for you now see what happened was I didn't want you talking ill of red litter media so I subverted the conversation for an hour you don't have to do it again we'll get back into it here we go I should get out of here it's like 4 20 I could stream any excuse to just run away I'll cover running away again again what does that even mean I don't know it just sounds good you've done it before and now you're doing it normally mall is the one that runs away from our stream I run to your stream that's where you do run in both directions I was bizarre that I like randomly get into a debate with amazing atheists thanks to randomly just being like hey guys won't come what did you debate about I missed that live I debated the amazing atheists on freedom of speech I was on the pro side hahahaha I need to look that one up it turned out to be a prize authoritarian but alright here we are it was you an actual justice warrior the weird adventure listen this way you always have to come on the sit show you never know what kind of weird the sit show huh yeah the sit show I'm sorry sit and add don't think this would happen on our stream is this what an insurrection looks like listen it's late I'm tired is that an excuse to forget running away again the third time slippery sitch lion's sitch oh that's bad I know lion's sitch doing a slip come on it's like 4 in the morning there what time is it where you guys are me it's off past 9am now oh 9am by the way I will be staring at that counter because 7pm is the finish line it's like we're on our way guys we're getting there it's 1.30am here I'll be surprised if you make it further stream with Nerdrodic tomorrow dude he was like talking about how he's totally agreed to come on to you I was like oh great then he was like yeah then we're doing the house of dragon right after it I was like hahahaha that's crazy at first I was like are we going to time it so I can maybe sleep for videos like no we can do it right after if you want I was like why do I want that yeah let's just talk about that do you like when they pulled the guys pants down to cut his balls off and he farted it was gross what is this that you're reviewing he farted yeah when they go to cut the guys balls off he farts and I was like what is this supposed to be funny it was in like the close up shots he made it why would they do that I swear it's the same fart sound effect they used in like the play in game of thrones season whatever that was no way like the comical fart sound effect I don't know if they were trying to make that moment like the willhelm fart slightly comedic or whatever because of that but it was such a weird choice I have no clue I'm going to have to rewatch that I feel like I've seen it twice he farted he's not making that up it's in there let's do it closely what the fuck this is supposed to be scary what's happening wait farts aren't scary to you I mean not compared to a guy getting his balls cut off wow farts are terrible alright chad sitch not scared by farts all of a sudden there you go alright look I don't want to keep you up late okay mister has to run away happy 200s happy 200s Molly and frags and frags that's me pro gamer they just call me frags pretty cool actually it's a good name I was about to say it's like grenade frags frags are a couple though they're shagging yeah you guys are a power couple frags that's great not bad anyway thanks for having me on I'm so happy that you guys made 200 even though we beat you to 200 but let's not contest I'm offended now as long as we're winning it's not a contest that's right goodbye at least we can agree on the name of our podcast oh what are you talking about come on why do you gotta say that it's so mean come on I hear you guys all the time say the Adam and sister it's kind of hilarious dude I was referencing how you guys are coming on I said it and then all of chat were like laughing I was like what's the name of the show okay don't be laughing the truth it was so funny when destiny was like you should call the Sitch and Adam show that was fucking great that is the name of the show dude he checked he was legit no way because he set his stream up as I'm going on the Adam and Sitch you must enjoy the fuck out of that that happens all the time everyone defaults to is it because of alphabetical plus the fact that it sounds better I think it's because I think it's because Lilo and Stitch is already in people's brains so Adam and Sitch is very close to that I think a couple there's a couple of duos that go two syllables one syllable right like that's the thing yeah Adam and Sitch whatever everyone everyone hates Adam doesn't have to fight for all of your rules Bonnie and Clyde it's not a rule it's the one that's more common speed tenancy Laurel and Hardy is two and two probably the only person who knows Hamish and Andy is Meme that's an obscure reference wow and Shaft of course yeah wait so I don't actually know anything about Hamish and Andy but I recognize it because of Simpsons I think don't they reference them Hamish and Andy is an Australian comedy radio duo well yeah but I recognize it so it must be from something oh because I've never seen Hamish and Andy but I remember what about Tim and Eric huh that's interesting Adam and Eve people also have in the brain which is pretty much in everyone's brain so well one interesting one is Simon and Garfunkel because that's two and three Adam and Eve Adam and Eve that's right Adam and Eve like Adam and Sitch right not Adam and Sitch Harold and Kuma Harold and Kuma oh someone in chat could be right am I thinking of Amos and Andy what's that I was about to say I associate that with Pulp Fiction the whole milkshakes Amos and Andy that might have been what you were thinking maybe oddly enough you have Tom and Jerry that's true there's some magic to it because loads of people default to Adam and Sitch it might just be your I did Adam just exerts more masculine chat energy it's great to hear yeah I'm not even doing a compliment you man it's just facts even though I like Tenet huh I can get past that it's good to know it's good to know people like I haven't seen Tenet so you haven't really it sounds like the kind of movie I hate because not only is it nonsense it's hard to understand that it's nonsense this came up we never got to the bottom of your hierarchy of like obviously you're saying consistency is at the top of the hierarchy but we never got to like number two or three or four so I am curious about that so when you say that you're asking like what do I want next in stories or what do I want to control what is most important to you like visuals versus story is a big like some people can just have visuals no story that's awful to me I don't know that I'm trying to because the thing is it almost implies do I value a character having an arc before I value an action scene before I value an adventure through many places before I value a really good choreographed fight like these are all I don't know how I would order any of this because the thing is like do I prefer the father over I don't know Lord the Rings who would be like how the fuck I don't I am not specifically go ahead to me I think the answer is dependent by genre and expectation and what the film is promising like because a Jackie Chan movie like well I would say like a Jackie Chan film that's specifically marketed as an action film I'm prioritizing good fighting good choreography as a pretty high expectation for me going in but I think it's more fundamental and it's almost like what do I want as a base play do I value like an action movie over a comedy over an adventure over a sci-fi over well with like a lot of them I don't necessarily want one over the other I just want to see good ones well the reason why it's interesting that you're you have this consistency thing is because like mostly in storytelling people put conflict above like as the core of storytelling above even above consistency it's like maybe how do you reach most people to find that what do you mean you said most people I mean well you're a storyteller too right Shad you've written stuff isn't like conflict the root of why people are even interested in watching something let me ask you a question what's the question is it what is the defining aspect of a story what do people want out of stories I mean maybe both I just like if we're going to go with defining I love this story because it's an easy one Bob wanted a pie he walked down to the shops he got a pie he walked home he ate the pie at the end I wouldn't even classify that as a story that's shit Shad how did you say that I would say it's out of crap as a story it's more like an account of an event what is your definition no no no because again it depends on for instance a novel by definition of say a novel especially if it's a trade pub that's a piece that's specifically made to be a type of entertainment and so therefore one of the categories that you know one of the categories that needs to have it is that needs to achieve being entertaining and yes that's sorry no but like there are books that are an accounting of events like history books are they a story according to you well they're narrative yeah they are a story yeah the events that happen the stories are true the story doesn't need to be fictional nonfiction a story is a story it's just an account of a sequence of events so for instance if I said so I went down to the shop and bought a pie and came home and ate the pie and I was very happy that's a story now of course this is made up I didn't go get a pie today for like if I did on a given day that's still a story it's just not you know not a very entertaining one that's it well and again you can write down that story in terms of elements because there literally is character motivation there like you wanted a pie and therefore you took an action to get a pie this is exactly why I brought up conflict because this story has no conflict I went to the store so I went to the store next door so I guess to bridge the gap exactly rags you're you're introducing conflict there you go I didn't make it it was always a story I didn't make it yeah to bridge the gap Adam I would agree that conflict is in most stories and conflict is like what people are there for generally but definitionally it's a sequence of events that doesn't need to be conflict I would just say what kind of what's a story that doesn't really what's a story that doesn't really have conflict like a story going to get a pie a movie how about a movie is there a movie that doesn't have movie recorded himself going to the store to get a pie try to think of all the worst movies you can think of multiverse like perhaps a short story in which it's just a lighthearted buddy story where two people getting along and there's jokes and stuff and it doesn't necessarily have a core conflict that can still be very enjoyable so I don't think it's an inherent essential part I think it frames a very large part of lots of stories maybe even most yeah there's a reason it's practically ubiquitous I agree that conflict is a major part of stories major to the extent that it is found in virtually like all stories virtually it is not a defining aspect of narrative a narrative is an account of sequence events that's it in the Captain America video that we were watching like the reason why you know it's not interesting if Captain America just destroys everybody is because then there is no conflict in the story the whole idea is that you want to if he's really good at doing it there would still be a conflict it's just an easily overcome conflict it's like Fringy went to go get the pie the store was closed so he went next door and got the pie it's virtually effortless change that he had to do but technically it's a conflict and that's the case of a lot of modern superhero movies as well as they just tear through enemies and they never struggle and we never see them strain themselves and it's boring basically if there's no conflict there's no stakes and that's why stakes I think is probably one of the essential storytelling components you say that in my fake story the stakes are is he going to get the pie yes there are he doesn't get that pie he'll be hungry can I get my steak pie as well let's call it a steak pie low stakes it's low stakes but there are stakes if I don't get my pie I'll be very sad but this is why all the Marvel movies want to make it the world or the universe or the multiverse because they want to increase the stakes we want a giant wager on the table here we don't want some piddly little pie on the table see I think the issue is speaking in absolutes I think in a lot of cases what you can say could be largely applied but I think you could write a story that perhaps has no stakes that could be very enjoyable a hypothetical say a story which an event is told this happens and then it goes back in time and you get to find out how the events play out to reach that and it technically has no stakes because you know what happens but you're interested and you're enjoying the story to see how it got there yeah it's a place of life anime I don't disagree with Frenge's or Mahler's definition of the story being a series of events what about my definition your definition rags I was just left out rags is definition you don't get a vote so I think what I would say is I enjoy it well I have a definition that's different than that but your definition fits my definition but I just in order to make it interesting I think you have to have stakes conflicts and all that kind of stuff the conversation about what makes for an interesting story is definitely worth having a story versus an interesting story I think we would all have to agree that the base upon which any claim could be made about what books like what stories are is that it is an account of a sequence of events if we agree on that then there's nothing we can expand upon like that's it I think a sequence of events I'd argue that a sequence of events is almost all needed for a story other than that you can almost extrapolate you can almost extrapolate out like stakes or conflict or any other thing but you need things to happen to have a story basically at base level well it does need to be an account to distinguish between actual events how could you have an account if one thing does not lead to another it's the difference between a map and a place like you have to have the account is the story the events are just the events so you're saying if there was a bit of prose that described the appearance of a city and not giving any process of events that could be a story that's a description of a yeah that's not a serious story but what about the wind balloon that's a story it's a thing doing something but that's all we would need then right all verbs are like it's necessarily temporal for things to happen that describes something happening in time yes the wind can't blow for no time yes so the fundamental thing for a story is an event needs to happen that takes place along some type of time frame well that's what a sequence of events is necessarily temporal and it has to be an account to distinguish it from the events themselves the wind blowing isn't a story it being described in some kind of an account a prose, a movie, a description a poem, anything like that that's the story that's the thing that's the thing that changes it from an event to a mechanism for telling basically pure curiosity I heard a couple of comments that went by with the pie example of the bringing going to buy his pie I think it may have been ER that was just like that shit out of curiosity alongside the you know that's not interesting if you had like just 100 different people across the world who found it really compelling because of maybe what happens in the story regarding you know it's just you get a good shot of Fringy's face as he's moving through the world going to get that pie and they interpret a lot from it they draw a lot out of it for what the I was about to say adventure but I meant that more in a way of the journey of this thing there's a lot going on let's just say that in a more wistful way and they said they found it way more interesting than that Star Wars crap where it's just a bunch of people flying around doing all kinds of bullshit like how do you deal with it that would be insane it's like people enjoying like a Captain Marvel or something like that you can't trust them I'm sorry Moly you did add new context to give an interpretation of that story being possibly better than the account you just gave well so I don't think it's unreasonable like if there was no additional context given this is the story I wake up I go to the shop I get a pie I come back home I eat at the end I presume from that description that we watch all of that happen and there's going to be angles and I assume we're going to learn stuff about the environment to me because that's adding that's now a different story to the one that I just shared if the story was literally what I just said fully that's a pretty crap story sorry so I was always envisioning a film every time because you're almost describing an audiobook well literally what I said if that was a good story as I described it that's a crap story I like there are a lot of things you could change about it to make people interested in it for instance it could be this amazing piece of unbelievable CGI where the character is doing like but the most seriously someone made a film like that and made a CGI that was truly indistinguishable for the first time utterly indistinguishable from live action that would blow people away it would be amazing it's achieving something vastly new in terms of technology and what we can do in film we've got a real example of that Luxo Junior what is the plot of that a lamp plays with a ball a lamp destroys the ball a lamp gets a new ball and is happy at the end that's Luxo Junior but it's way more than that but yeah so the way that it is presented can redefine and give an aspect that lots of people could enjoy in it and perhaps even say it has more cultural importance or enjoyment quality than other films okay so then is a story does it require an entertainment value then I don't think that's quite to me I think the layman the layman use of the concept of story is something to at least at the very least be interesting if not entertaining I totally agree I don't think just a series of events is enough to constitute a story what happens if you don't I don't think that's the definition of a story what is your definition I know that that's why I asked why you think that what some look it up whatever you tell me a dictionary says I won't care so don't even bother a story is not just a secret of events it's got to be a secret of events that entertain because that's something that you're telling somebody for a purpose so what I don't think Force Awakens is interesting it's not a story anymore it's a story it's a really shit one okay so it's a story we agree that interesting is not a necessity now so there are many stories that by definition and by their purpose are meant to be entertaining and you can judge it according to how well it achieves that so only one person has to find it interesting and now it's a story if that died no one so wait I'm curious what is the answer to that question because all I'm going to do because I assume you say like one person not enough I'm just going to keep cranking the number until it is so what how does it work no no no so what I'm saying here because this is a different thing to what necessarily EI is saying so I don't want to distract that okay yeah like if if a work is meant to be entertaining alright then that's a metric that you would be judging by that's part of its purpose and my context with this is that that's actually the primary thing to judge it by and this is where I have my own views on the consistency argument because there are cases in which you sacrifice consistency for the sake of entertaining for entertainment and if it makes it more entertaining it's actually a valid trade and that's from your own point of view right perfect example sound in space I think sound in space is unrealistic it's inconsistent according to the laws of physics but we add it to a lot of sci-fi films because it enhances the experience in some really important ways you okay with sound trans yeah so why can't we treat the sound effects in the same vein who's saying I'm not but also wouldn't be a flaw then right well yeah you aren't yeah yeah that you're sacrificing something about well no so it wouldn't be considered I assume you don't I'd assume you don't say the music is bad because there's no way in the world it could come from but we accept it because it's cool I'm assuming you're going to say well no that's not what we say about music it depends on what it achieves and how it's how it's executed if it's the words are because you agree that there are sometimes films that have soundtracks that utterly detract from the film and make it worse sorry just to refocus what I'm trying to get at is the why can't we treat what we would usually say when we go like when lord rings are playing take for example like witch king's theme when he's when he's arriving if I said where are the speakers where's this music coming from like you don't you know I assume you don't treat that as a valid observation now right what I'm suggesting is that in Star Wars until they show us a character reacting to the sound in space there's no reason for us to think there is sound in space in this universe and even then like it would it would be more if in one scene they were treating it as if there was literally no sound in space and then the next scene they can totally hear what's going on outside because that's the internal consistency thing right yeah what I'm suggesting is that we're receiving the sounds from the soundtrack if you will rather than the in-unit like when people speak that's coming from them but when we hear blaster sound in space that's coming from the tracking of the so you're trying to argue so you're trying to argue that the sound in space example might not necessarily be a valid example of where consistency can be sacrificed for another thing that can raise the quality of the film is your argument that there are no things that you could trade in terms of logical consistency in film for something else that could enhance the you know we've talked about it before right like when we had that big conversation with Mando it's like for me rags and Fringy we were like that just pulled us out of the content and then you were like no it's awesome I think it's really cool and it's fine to sacrifice a bit of consistency for a cool thing what I would conclude from that is that it comes down to the individual and therefore you know the rest right yeah but the thing is though this is where it goes on to the entertainment argument as well if one doesn't appeal to a small group of people but one change would appeal to a larger group of people and the purpose of the work is to be entertaining to the largest amount of people possible there's a pretty objective choice then isn't there um no well Shad surely you would agree that if I said I can make a Knight's Tale better if I inject a lot more whatever Marvel grab it and they're like yeah we need more dinosaurs we need more this we need more that and turns out it's gonna make more money if we do that but it's gonna be way less critically acclaimed and loved overall like I assume you'd say then I was not being made better like um if you remember Blade Runner was shat on when it came out if you had concluded like they must have made a mistake with that when everyone's hating it but yeah to me though like that's slightly dodging the thing because yeah I agree with you but there are examples instead of going for an example in which it's a one or the other there are examples in which you can sacrifice logical consistency for something that could appeal to both that it would achieve more money and be more entertaining and just be you know considered better as a result I like I think of a lot of you know fight scenes for instance there's a lot of inconsistency and a lot of say martial art fight scenes Jackie Chan fight scenes there's a lot of things that are unrealistic as well but for the purpose for an absolute kick ass fight scene especially to get like a move that totally blows you away you can push it I'm not saying you can always get away with it no matter what because there's a level where you can push it too far where it will take people out of it but if you can push it a little bit to just get that wow factor I think there's a fair trade that you could argue for I don't have one of you more complain about anything in the in the audio because now can be part of the soundtrack as Shad already highlighted you can complain about what's in the soundtrack I think that's fine I don't think Shad would complain about the soundtrack playing a sound that seems suitable for a blaster coming from a ship if it were in atmosphere just to satisfy us with the sound it's not if it's not coming from the universe you know this applies to the Lord of Rings trailer they had like a horrible fucking choice of music that doesn't match at all just because it's not coming from the universe doesn't mean we can't be critical of it I think that's totally fine because the problem I have before I can adopt and I'm not saying you guys are the same position whether it be R or Shad is that I find that even if a movie had a very very niche audience the point of one person liking it but let's make it a little bit more agreeable to you guys a thousand people out of everyone in the world loved it but everyone else thought it was shit would you guys be like well that's not good enough it's got to be more than that you got to make changes to make it more appealing as opposed to I would be like no this could be so niche it could appeal to the very specific experiences those people have and that would be more focused on whether or not the thing itself is coherent within itself as opposed to whether or not it's appealing to the entertainment values of the rest of the world no it doesn't have to be utilitarian utilitarian thing it's like someone just posted the definitions here and the discord and I think I'm I'm feeling pretty right about this what because it says told for entertainment yeah you know what we're going to say in response to that and I count a past events in someone's life or an evolution of something I would say what were the what you were trying to describe before just a sequence of events would be more like reporting or when Fringy sits my kids down and he's like I'm going to tell you a story but when I went to go for a pie I went down that street I got to the shop I opened that door I got that pie I came home and I ate that pie there we are and if the kids said that wasn't told for entertainment Fringy said I was trying to entertain I'm sorry if I failed but it was for entertainment I'm sorry is that going to be the question what are we to say about retelling an account of a sequence of events that you don't find entertaining is that a story? what do you mean by entertaining well so I guess to just focus in on that particular question you hear an account of a sequence of events and you don't find it entertaining what is it what is entertaining why do you keep I'm just trying to get specifically answers to that one I'm sorry to interrupt I'm going to get going go ahead Fringy please you add in some pie story where it was difficult for you to get that pie I think your children would be much more enthralled by that I got a pie here's your pie that's not my question is it a story that's my question is it a story I think the answer is obvious I'll do one easier I think there's chances by definition I think the clinical answer is yes but I watch your answer to my proposition before where I said the layman interpretation of what a story is is the casual use of the term story in language often refers to something that has a purpose is entertaining in some way or at least interesting I think this really comes down to intent though right if the story is told for entertainment told to not entertain Ellie Vicell wrote Knight which was about his events in the concentration camp I agree with you I'm trying to figure out their definition 100% agree with you Reg the story has nothing to do with entertainment because you can tell sounds like that would have had a lot of conflict involved in that kind of story which would provide not entertainment per se but it would be interesting by the way Meme was saying he had to go I heard you mate very well Mr. Meme thank you so much for joining us we wrapped up before you wake up maybe not, who knows I've got a commitment by some miracle of space later on I could theoretically pop back in but obviously there's probably not going to be much room as we're rotating through but yeah I just got a commitment thing it's been good to hang out with everyone yeah man I'll catch you around see you dude I find that interesting because if ringy was telling that pie story he promised me it was going to be really interesting and I held my attention all the way up to the end and I was disappointed would I not have been entertained by that definition well I was about to say by that definition if a story bores you then it's not a story that's what I mean I really like my definition I was going to say I do too if someone told the Lord of the Rings not because they wanted to entertain you but because they wanted to inform you from the original source to the films in a legal sense they are showing you these films you need to know that that doesn't make it not a story because they're showing it for reasons other than entertainment yeah of course so with your definition according to your interpretation what makes a good story coherency the argument that would be appealed to now I'm not sure I agree with that I would say a good story is one that achieves its purpose now I have a question would you actually what's a what's a bad story the matrix Chad do you think you would would you apply this specifically to stories in terms of achieving like their objective or arts horribly would you apply that to art in general I think I could I would need to think about it just to analysis I feel it good that I guess you would be judging the success of a piece of art whatever it may be based on how well it achieves the objectives of the creator yeah that's a big part of it so the thing is though there are cases in which death of the author comes in that concept where other people could find value in it or a purpose in it separate to what the author did and so this is why I would say that it's not there has to obviously be another side to it in addition to it but I think a good starting point very much is achieving its purpose I don't think the fact that you could say that there are other things that apply to it discounts that as a very significant part to it just real quick do you know the destiny argued against me that the reason the sequels are much better than the prequels is because the prequels failed their purpose while the sequels exceeded their purpose what the fuck I know right you can state it your purpose is starting to quantify that I've got a question let's say that somebody sets out to create an abstract painting like they want to specifically create something that would fit into the genre I've got an example painting lined up well so okay and so they go to make the abstract painting instead they create a hyper detailed like brilliantly rendered baroque painting and they look at it and go ah shit this isn't what I intended what is that piece of art is it good or is it bad well see this is an interesting point because there are other standards you can appeal to and so it goes back into my whole spaghetti standard you said it goes into my spaghetti bolognese you know thing about if the author sorry if the creator of that artwork wanted something abstract and then accidentally made something else that was still good by another standard it fails as an abstract thing according to the standard of what an abstract art is it's a piece of crap abstract art by that you know objective definition placed upon it then you could say it's a really good you know realism piece of art different standard you're applying to or sorry appealing to so if you could also say that you could then also make a judgment on the talent of the creator of that work based on them able to achieve what they set out to try and make and if they can never achieve what they're trying to make they're really bad at achieving that specific type of work if it's abstract art they're really bad abstract artists aren't they what if I said isn't a good piece of art not is it a good piece of baroque arts or abstract art is it a good piece of art what is the answer first let me hear what your answer is oh is my answer to is it a good piece of art yes if it's like an incredible painting I don't really care what the guy intended to make he's made something that's got a lot of merit even if it's not what he intended so how do you determine if it's good like is in just what standards you're using to determine so maybe art isn't the best example because if I went for a story it's like let's just create a mystery or maybe I wanted to create a fantasy film and then you just make a science fiction story where everything is rooted deeply in technology there's nothing that is beyond what we understand about reality and so you've created a great science you've created a great story but it's absolutely not what you intended to make if it's internally consistent it's like well you've succeeded at creating an internally consistent story that's the framework I'd use in my hands before we go too far I want to hear Shad's answer to Fringy's question I agree with that I don't see how it contradicts what I'm saying on that abstract art being a good piece of art what do you mean Fringy's question well it's a good piece of art without any genre at all just generally according to all standards if you can find any standard in which it qualifies or you know is to a level of quality then of course it's good according to that standard isn't it well that's not basically tautological it's of high quality because it meets the standards of having high quality and you can't appeal to standards that standards are opposite from one another why do you guys why so how do you square that away following this somewhere I would want to see all the different examples because this is something I'd want to think about more because there are already a lot of things that exist in terms of things that we gauge things against so with fiction or stories for instance there are lots of different types of stories and we gauge it according to the standards that already exist like is it a good love story is it a good action adventure is it a good this or that and sometimes it can be good according to multiple things but sometimes to achieve quality in one it would be have to absolutely be terrible in quality of another that doesn't contradict the fact that it can still be good well so when we say that it becomes terrible in quality to another let's say I write a science fiction story where all of the relationships are platonic it's like have I written a terrible romance story does that really follow as like a sort of statement sure why not yeah do you reckon it does like you've created a terrible romance story it's like there is no romance yeah well again it's just not the genre like so it's the distinction almost is mood it just doesn't make much of a difference yeah but alright good example She-Hulk is a terrible terrible superhero show you know why very little superhero elements in it at all people might say oh what are they trying to make are they trying to make an Ali McBeal or a show well it's actually still pretty bad in that regard even with you know intent or purpose that they're trying to make it for but we can apply standards that exist and one of the things that She-Hulk was meant to be was to be a type of superhero show but it's crap according to that you know standard that exists because it's the amount of superheroing done yeah like if the scenes are really good but there's only one superhero scene per episode which is what it stands as right now I think or let's just say one per two episodes would you still consider it bad maybe not I'd have to look at it depends on how let's use an easy example let's take the movie Joker and instead of the police capturing him in the TV studio Batman swoops in and grabs him and he's on screen for three seconds is that a good superhero movie where are you guys going with this yeah absolutely yeah I can help you out Joker is actually considered in the superhero genre by a lot of people just because of the fact that it's from a source that's superhero but I doubt you guys would say it's crap right why why do you guys keep going to like the one person thing like what's the logic we're using it to explain when you have the TLJ moment with the knife right with a stab ray in the back but they don't because it disappears everybody's responses and defenses of that or how it doesn't matter we shouldn't care about it it's irrelevant leave it alone why you nip it nobody says no that didn't happen because it