If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Might pop might pop with your hosts Salda Stefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews What do we have in the house lately man? We had John Wolf. Oh, yeah. He's a great guy I really like John. Yeah, John's um He's cool. He's from the I didn't realize he's from like kind of around here Right, he's from Selena our neck of the woods. He started out, which was yeah I don't think any of us knew that no super cool guys super smart dude. Very interesting story. Yeah, he went into his child It's actually pretty interesting. I don't want to give away his story But it's pretty insane and then what's most insane about it is he's like the coolest guy ever And when you hear a story, he's got every reason to be I'm gonna go ahead and say he may be one of my favorite On it people probably yeah, you know I got a lot of my guys because Kyle was our boy before on it And so I don't know if he counts like he's not like somebody we have special is different right right He's he's in his own special class But John may be one of my favorite people that I've met over it on it so far man really really good our people Right. Yeah, he's one of our people. He's the CFO At on it the chief fitness officer. I don't know that that was a is that a thing? They why not? I love these titles. They have a financial officer. Why can't you have fitness? More more more businesses need a stat type of CFO chief fitness officer. Yeah, they might have the financial guy But they get to nobody nobody's staying healthy He's definitely the guy if you were gonna if you were gonna have someone do that That would be the dude for sure on Instagram. You can find him at coach John Wolf And also I do want to mention there's only four days left for our promotion this month That means that you only have four days to get free Forum access to our mine pump private forum in order to do that you have to enroll in any maps bundle Now bundles or will we take individual maps programs and combine them together like? Maps aesthetic and maps performance. We combine those together added some modifications and made it the sexy athlete bundle That's just one example We also have the super bundle which is a year of exercise programming What we do when we combine them was we discount them like 20 30% off. Anyway, you also get free forum access on top of that If you want individual Exactly if you want individual programs You can find all those also on our website mind pump media comm so just go there check them out pick one Go check out YouTube as well I wanted to mention like we did a couple videos with John Wolf and he is a master of Wielding the mace bell around and the iron club So he drops some great content great coming hot great knowledge when it comes to all the unconventional lifting right excellent So without any further ado here's mine pump interviewing John Wolf chief fitness officer of on it You guys don't sell any programs right now. It's all classes. Is that how it's all structured or yeah I mean as a matter of fact the the reality is the only way we deliver that type of content is at the gym right now and You know, that's not scalable, you know, originally we thought oh, you know Sometimes you see what's already done in the marketplace and you get stuck in trying to recreate what other people have done So originally some of the ideas that came up were Affiliate gym type models or things like that and we realized like man, that's that's not us You know, why would we recreate what's already out there? I came in and I wanted to create content in terms of info products a variety of different types But then the the business was already well established in the hard goods, you know the the physical pieces of equipment and and then the supplements so everything was about these tangible goods and We started selling digital downloads of products that that we sourced from other people But the way that they were delivered was Just to be honest sub par so the experience of consuming those items wasn't enjoyable and with a brand like on it I think that the consumer experience is a big a big part of the process the way it feels to consume the items You know, you look at the like they just did these huge label redesigns Which you know since I've been there three and a half years We've redesigned all the labels multiple times and each time is this huge project You know, I was busting ovaries balls about that one. Did you or did you listen to the episode where we interviewed him?  What's going on man? I mean, it's a lot of it's a huge project that's of all your products. It's huge I mean, that's what you have to realize this too is one of the challenges is There's this perception of abundance when it comes to on it, right? And and there is abundance. There's so much good will you know Aubrey's message of Servitude and and the balance of of giving a little bit more than we take even though we're a premium brand and we're not cheap With the goal is always to give just a little bit more to our community members than what we're taking out in the bank You know and so and in that good will that reciprocity law reciprocity kicks in everywhere we go But at the same time It's all one pool of resources right now You know, we haven't we haven't scaled to the point where you know There's this division and it has a fixed set of resources everything gets pulled together and and when it's when it's managed that way You know when big projects come up Like Aubrey's book, you know that that's a big deal for the whole company even though it's really his personal brand He's the tip of the spear for right for the company itself. So a lot of resources go there and You know, unfortunately up to this point. We never really transcended into a Real digital delivery type of business, you know, whether it's programming or Video content never really had the resources to kind of fund that direction yet. Not yet But thankfully we're about to bridge that gap right now. So really? Yeah. Yeah, so We we saw a huge Opportunity in the marketplace with with the goodwill we have with the large community We have to do something that is a little more consumer friendly So in that in that way, you know a lot of the content. So we were talking about like a PDF content programs You know, you have to have a an audience that's somewhat educated and self-motivated to utilize that form of content, right? And so so what what we decided to go in on in terms of our first big content project is something more consumer-friendly follow-along Transformation program. Ah, like a disruptive Version of a transformation program. So Allah Beach body, you know, I mean got it right but but an on it an orange version of that Right, right.  Let's all work on this one project together And then we can get a big push and that forces us to kind of evolve the way we deliver digital content Yeah, how did how did on it find you like how did you guys meet? Did you meet Aubrey before? I mean, how did that all happen?  We want to go we talk about it every year Steven Kotler does been twice maybe It's like one of those things where it's like like I want to go but then now everybody's gone and like I don't want to go anymore Everybody did it I mean, I don't need to be cool. I need a whole bunch of homies show me. What's up? Yeah, I want to go into Thunderdome That's how I want to go. I want to go with a big group of people. You know I'm saying like I don't want to just roll out There by myself. I don't need to get high that bad So how did you guys come together how did that happen, you know, it's really just uh, I ended up being you know the The best choice on the was just the top of the short list. You know what I mean? So, uh, I had a gym. Hey an hour down the road in Salinas, California Second you look really familiar how long oh man, so I opened up my gym December 2010 December 1st 2010 And then I moved out to work it on it August 2000. Did you grow up in Salinas a group in Marina Marina? seesaw I used to manage the 20 friends I used to manage the 24 fitness on in Salinas been a long time ago Oh shit, okay, that's where you would know me from so I would come in late night I used to work hotels So I'd work from 3 to 11 and that was would commute to to Hartnell. So this was probably let's see 98. Oh That's exactly why you look familiar I used to that's when I that's the first the very first club. So I was 19 years old So it's probably 98, you know 99 That's the first club that I ever managed and that they gave me that one of course because it's in Salinas So like I tried this one here first. Yeah, if you do well, we'll give you the bigger ones I knew it's a sign like this dude looks familiar man. I was probably like 19 years old at the time We probably bumped into each other and hung out a couple times, but that's that's a while back And uh, yeah, so I would get in there after my three to 11 shift and then train until you know Almost one go home crash till six and then drive up to Milpitas to go to Heald I was getting electronics technology my AAS. That was my first degree But all this place is a by the way on the way here so sidetrack, you know We'll talk about how I found on it and on it found me but I drove in and instead of exiting the Alameda there was a shit ton of traffic on the 880 I stayed in Fremont so I'm driving down. Oh shit I used to work in hotels So I used to work in the hotel right over here is it just got open for a while I did night audit and then I was driving down and said oh a reroute first street So I'm driving down first street turn it right on a heading.   There's like three million searches for pillows man I didn't even know that was that big.  It's true though, right? Yeah We've all stayed at like a hotel and you felt like that. Oh my god that pillow was a man We just stayed at a house where we all jump right at yeah We're all that like makes yeah, that makes the sleep for me for sure and it's just not cheap You know a new mattress new pillows.  What is your fitness journey look like to get you to where you get a buy a gym you for your run your own gym, okay, this is a You know, I think in the fitness industry Maybe more people relate to this story than not but maybe it's not necessarily something that people share publicly, but I got into fitness as a Way to improve myself when I was in my lowest point in life, right? So so I used to run the streets and I was a street pharmacist that partook quite often Yes So, you know smoked a lot of weed did a lot of ecstasy, right? And so in that time I was experimenting with every other substance as well and all of them They all fit together in my lifestyle pretty well. I had a good way to manage it all I was still working full-time making good money and Inside sales at this company is telephony company a hella direct off of In South Sound's a right there. What's that first exit? I forget whatever the case is Yeah, it's right over there Bernal. Oh, yeah, right off Bernal. So it was like right at the All work around there. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you did too. Yep. Okay, cool, man. Yeah down there. Yeah.   You know, so how old are you at this point? Man, 20 So I would already graduate from heels. I was going to Menlo commuting for I was probably 23 Okay, so you're just angry angry man And so then so you compound like a lack, you know apathy and a lack of self-love a lack of faith in Anything and and and then a hard drug. So I got exposed to meth. Oh, man. Wow. Next thing you know I was in a hole. I was 135 pound. Whoa, meth addict a year and a half later. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Yeah And so anyways, I I wanted to kick it and for a variety of different reasons and I found Fitness was like I'm gonna do the fitness thing and then I saw people in the gym and they're doing the same thing They were doing 10 years ago not getting better.  Maybe it'll improve me for now, but I want something I can I can bet on Growing in forever. How did you go from from meth addict? I'm gonna work out and take care of myself. Was there a moment where you're like I need to get myself healthy there were a couple moments actually so One of my one of my boys we would run streets together, right? And so we're really good friends from being from little kid status, right? And I mean he lived with me grew up next door grandparents knew each other and And he was the one who was trying to tough me up.    You know what I mean? And I was just like and I was just like numb I look at him.  So it made me really kind of it was like a instead of mine pump.   There you go.  That's good. That's a good tag. Um And so yeah, man, so there was that and then I happened to meet uh, who someone who Willed become my future wife. Oh cool.    You haven't really called me out on it I just want to tell you thank you because that didn't polarize my mindset You know, like it doesn't got didn't galvanize me.    You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna fix it So don't worry mom is good and it just took about a year to really get out of the hole But fitness was this kind of recurring theme. Wow, dude. What about that?  It didn't really exist so I could always drop, you know, some some bread on some more Shit and and I would and it would if you had it and you kind of do it and especially you get triggered, you know so So, you know, I'm talking to I'm talking this girl and you know when things didn't work out. She was young.  You know what I mean or or just other things would trigger me But but it would gradually reduce, you know, it's kind of like, you know Training with an injury it takes time for it to right you you you'll forget that it was there eventually But it takes maybe a year, you know, when you have a significant injury to even as you're getting better You have these little backslides like oh, I I stepped on, you know, I tried to accelerate too fast and it It got fucked up again or a little bit, you know, but hopefully not as bad as the original injury So this is kind of this diminishing power that it had over me But it took you know phases iterations of of of going through it So it's like you quit but you didn't really quit and then you quit and you didn't really quit and yeah and then one day I was like It was at a party and and I didn't I smoked it That was the the other thing you smoking it to me is like a whole different level than Then snorting snorting stuff. You're so much faster, right?     It just shook me to my core.  So so like my grandmother just had her second open heart surgery She wasn't recovering well And so they rushed her to the hospital then they did an emergency third open heart surgery But then she then she died. So I'm like, why why even make her suffer that way? She could have just went out and she was like one of the sweetest people I ever knew, you know So instead of being at the hospital, I went when we're at the hospital I drove to her house and I just laid in her bed, you know, I just wanted to be While that energy was still there, you know, and so uh So yeah, that I mean is that and then the the different iterations of it and just it just Definitely just shook me to my core and I think to be honest that I look back and As we get older man, we we build these walls and we and we start toughening ourselves But you know toughening ourselves in a lack of sensitivity a lack of actual it turns into a lack of awareness of self And I'm like fuck, you know, even now I'm thinking like man I'm trying I'm trying to tear down these walls and I'm like fuck these things are Big they're tall and thick. I'm like, yeah, shit, you know, this is this is a lot more work than it's been so whether it was at that phase or even Even now, you know making a move out to Austin and and just like being away from my my pillars of support My family and other things. I just realized when it's still happening It happens behind the scenes And maybe it doesn't drive me to do the things I was doing before You dive into your work sometimes or you dive into other things that you know You you hold value to as well, but you sometimes you don't realize some things that you're sacrificing Um, it's just it's just an interesting interesting thing about humanity. I think I'm finding more and more about myself But uh going through like mastermind programs or stuff that's like personal development self self development stuff Uh, I realized like hey when every time I do that I uncover these these truths about myself I start remembering things about I'm realizing about other people at the same time And also realizing that these are the limiting factors in my business and my relationships and And everything else that that actually aspire to accomplish. So so yeah, I don't know exactly Exactly what I was trying to hide from other than just the the pain of of acknowledging that You know Childhood beliefs the adolescent beliefs of the world or you know, not even adolescent the the more pure The more innocent beliefs you have when you're young are no longer there, you know, and so like that's a painful transition I think absolutely. Have you always been you're I mean your character is coming through and it's it's quite powerful. I'm sure people listening right now can hear it Yeah, um, and you're have you always been this growth minded and Self aware of this kind of character or was it is it just because it's been developed through these battles?  So in the 70s in the early 80s Everybody had kids and they're 20 years old. Yeah, you know, so I I didn't have my child until 35 and I thought man What the fuck, you know, I thought I was way behind schedule I was gonna have a kid have a house when it's 25, you know, you how many of you guys had that whole My mom had me at 20 dude My mom had me at 20 and my dad committed suicide by time was seven So I can totally relate to the stories right now man, man, you know Sorry to hear that brother, but you know, I think it's important a lot of people have a lot of judgment or they don't understand They don't understand also the impact it has on everybody else. You know what I mean?   And it's like, well Do you know what that dude could potentially have been through for the last 20 years of his life and The fact that he's still breathing and going and stuff like that's a victory. So I think that having a Childhood or a background like that just gives you a lot of compassion probably for a lot of people How was it difficult for you to because you're talking about it now and you're talking very openly And I really appreciate that Has it has it always been this easy for you to talk about these things or was this a process? Is this part of the process? I tend to uh prefer being really transparent man, you know, I I I have one Version of me, you know a lot of people they wear a lot of different masks and to me That's a painful process to try to be something anything less than purely authentic And so if I'm going to have a conversation with people I hope to build a relationship with Even if we have this audience that yeah, I don't know I haven't connected with Yeah, all I know is I'm sitting in front of these three guys. I really respect I really want to be able to say like hey, man, you know, let's let's figure out how we can do things together and really blow shit up Like I can't I can't afford to miss my opportunity to be completely transparent completely authentic because Because then you have to figure out which version of me is the one you're talking to right right and and to me I just don't know. I don't even know how to do it, you know even growing up Uh, a lot of my boys would give me a hard time.  Yeah, I don't know if you remember there's this commercial where they had like the different types of dudes And it is always the one upper. Yeah Like you came in with a new car and he put out his Lambo key or something like that.  He's over here writing poetry at the bar But the thing was they give me a hard time because it's like, oh man, you know Check out that girl.  I'm like, yeah Nope, not into it, you know, and it's like like no, you just just close it's like finding a rhythm You know what I mean? I'm like, no to me. It's not really like that, you know, anything that feels inauthentic doesn't feel Uh, feel right. It doesn't feel right. You know, it's it's just not worth it.  So if I if I try to be here and you you hear a lot of ums or You know me trying to fabricate things on the fly is just It's no words. It's just not don't work I totally identify with that. I'm the same way you go through all kinds of stuff in your early 20s You you start to get yourself cleaned up. You find fitness. You start working out Where do you where do you finally move your way into the gym industry and get a gym before you even meet on it?  So yeah, so um, I was uh I was like, okay, I'm gonna get this certification And and then it was there's a practical and Santa Cruz worked with the you know, well known Retired bodybuilder and I'm like man, this dude's in pain. You know what I mean? So not to say that you can't do bodybuilding In a way now, there's so many different Perspectives you can integrate into that and have a a more like functionally aesthetic Aesthetically pleasing. I think Adam's done a great job of that.   Is he was really witty funny kind of dry sense of humor, but the information Was something I never saw before in terms of the way he delivered it was highly practical And very like had a scientific background, but that it was distilled into Terms anybody can understand and apply and I was like man, that's trying to talk over you No, yeah, it was distilled into this most simple form and and then if you did it You're like, oh, shit.  So I wanted to go deeper deeper deeper I found a Testimonial he wrote for this dude scott son and he he was moving crazy I never seen anything like it and I had a martial arts background So I was like really kind of like I want to move like that.   Listen, brother, I've been in this game for a minute.  Come on Man, I had a whole bookshelf of vhs Um, but then I saw in 2002. I spent a whole year just doing nothing but swinging Kettlebells and clubs like wow back in o2. You said o2. Wow Nobody head of the game. Yeah, nobody was using clubs, especially back then Maybe I some kettlebells, but it was pretty rare clubs. Nobody. Yeah. Yeah. And so I I was just this weirdo And I anybody who would let me torture them they went in the garage with me and they're like, you know Obviously they couldn't walk for a week, you know back then it was a lot less refined the delivery It was just like I bought my kettlebells and I couldn't walk for a week after my first session So I just wanted to share that with everybody, you know hamstrings are so blown out and uh, and so that was a process 2003 I went through both of those those guys certifications and and I think that's been the foundation Of my perspective my martial arts instructor when I was young he had an integrative Approach boxing jiu-jitsu a boxing judo jiu-jitsu and karate which is kind of like blasphemy back then in terms of integrating Content all martial arts have done that over like from history But but then when you're new when you do it you're like, oh no, you're not supposed to do that It doesn't honor the tradition and so so I realized back then I just want to do what works It doesn't really matter what you call it or but if someone's trying to throw me I'm gonna fucking punch them upside the head, you know or the neck I don't care, you know someone's trying to grapple me. I'm gonna shove my fist in their face there's one back and forth and so uh, it was really about practicality and an effective application So when these two schools of thought they didn't really jive Really rigid hard style really fluid movement and swinging clubs. It was like more like dancing almost, you know like and so For me, I was like no, it makes perfect sense that these are two Opposite sides of the same coin and everybody else, you know, they try to integrate those things and they weren't very successful that's kind of the the foundation of what Evolved into to put me in a great position was I made those two things work really well together And then I started finding other modules. I thought filled in the gaps and and uh Once I became a professional brought in a lot of education And to do that so 2003 got those things certified didn't start training people professionally until 2007 But was training people for free. So you're still working you're working a hotel business at this time I was working in hotels. I was still doing the street thing I was working behavior sciences with autistic kids. I was working in mortgage Damn, dude. Yeah Hustling whatever whatever game there was that I thought, you know, I could Take some skills away from That's that's what I was I was trying to do. So I thought real estate was important I was trying to get insurance. They wouldn't give me a estate license, right? And I tried to work in real estate as a real estate agent They wouldn't give me a license. So I just worked in the industry. I managed a team a processing team I managed a team of of loan originators And so I was still I was still in a position of authority and control But I wasn't able to like hold a broker's license or anything. Right. Yeah So you're doing that then when do you actually get your first gym? So 2007 I start training people at gold's gym Right in selenus. Uh, I was this crazy.  I'm doing these crazy That nobody else is probably doing at that time. Yeah, the girls are on the treadmill and they're facing me and they're like giggling and pointing And you know what I mean? The guys are like They're flexing and they try to come here. Do you mind if I try that?  That's heavy.  He's like, oh you're in selenus. You're crazy. Vato, man.  You need to come back at night and catch away. What's his name? Jim? Jim Roman I was like, okay, cool. So we I catch up with the other crazy fucking trainer in the gym and then we start You know architecting some type of future where we could collaborate and share share visions and do stuff like that And still I was just kind of casual at that started doing it more and more and more Built out my little detached garage in my backyards to train people in there Then transitioned to I was like, man, I'm only I'm only touching like the people have money You know, even back then it was like 50 60 dollars a session Now that's nothing, you know compared to what we're charging out in Austin But at the same time in selenus the economics sucked Especially at that time too, especially at the time so like my dream wasn't to like Serve the upper 20% it was to like change lives, you know, so 2008 some of my clients I was like, man, I'm thinking about doing this bootcamp in the park thing and and they're like, well I know people on city council. So if it doesn't go through then then I'll get them to back you And so we started using the parks doing boot camps in the parks to October 2008 Um, there's then I was like, man, this kind of sucks lugging 2000 pounds of kettlebells and equipment to the park five times a day I bought a truck just to do that and then I started I found out I'd start looking at commercial real estate and I was like, oh Just dreaming, you know, oh, this would be a good gym. This would be a good gym I had this lady show me this this property.  I wanted to build a gym She said, well, the other people looking at it want to build a gym too say, well, here's my card Give it to them ask them to call me and because this is a big nut for any facility.   You did this workshop for us.  Let's meet up for dinner. I want to see if we can do something together in this space And yeah, it just it just really worked out. So we worked together for 18 months Um, so you ended up getting this gym together or creating it together creating it together Yeah, we figured out how to share the schedule for share the space our communities were different But we're aligned in in energy, you know, so it was always like there's always still like two different communities But at the same time, you know, we knew that we were thriving As a result of our willingness to collaborate and share resources And so, you know, they they're training influence the future perspectives we had our training influenced the future perspectives they had Um, you know, we brought in a bunch of equipment. They wanted to learn how to use it vice versa So it was it really worked out and it's you know, it's a it's a growing up process to you know, not having a big ego and And learn to like collaborate on that level too, right, especially in limited resources space You know in time and so uh 18 months we did that and then I was like, you know I think we're out growing this I think you guys are well established and you probably out growing this relationship in this space And uh, it's comfortable as it is. It's not allowing us to take the next step So I grabbed a 5000 square foot space down the street about a mile and a half and and then that was the the gym The gym opening. Oh, wow. Now. How long are you how long are you running that before you make your way over to austin? So uh december 1st 2010 my dad's birthday. We open grand opening and then uh 2014 august of 2014 is when I moved to austin Okay Now when you move to austin did Aubrey or somebody connected on it Find you or no of you. Is that why you moved over there or did you go over there with No idea. So yeah, I was the top of a short list is what I said earlier, right? So how'd you get on this list? Yeah, so what happened was my predecessor, uh, this guy mark de grass He had a publication called my mad methods magazine.  You just drove up from orange county.   Yeah, I want more content. I was like, well, he jim's doing some club Shit, uh, I'll do some kettlebell stuff because you know again those are the two things that were the foundation of the frame of mind that we had other than like body weight stuff But you know tool specific stuff to intend to jive and he's like, well, yeah kettlebells will usually Usually do something in that market right then I was like, well, what do you what does your audience want?    I was just showing off and having fun It's not something I want people to indiscriminately try to do Anyway, yeah, it's so so But mark it always realizes like hey, you know, we had an integrative Integrative approach to our training methodology at our studio Most people would be a kettlebell person or they would swing clubs or they were doing yoga Or they're, you know, if when animal flow came out They'd like prefer to do the animal flow or whatever the case is But it was really like at the most they had one or two Two trick ponies, you know in the way that that they that the two things they subscribe to most and we're like fuck that We use everything and we put it all together in a cohesive system so that they're not competitive but complementary And so when uh when they wanted to do education Mark's like no, I'm a content producer. I'm an info marketer. I don't do education. I know I know Who you guys would want and they flew me out.  I'm there. I'm hugging everybody I'm just like that's just who I am my family, you know, we just like really loving Huggers man. Hug everybody. Don't don't matter. You can be sweaty nasty funky. You're still getting a hug At the studio on the way out.  Yeah, yeah Like all right the cash out is like positive human content. You have to if you don't want to hug You have to give me a high five This is it's okay. You don't have to do the hug thing if you're not a hugger Yeah, but um, but you know, you can't leave without some type of affirmation, you know Some type of physical affirmation. That's cool. Good job But uh, yeah, so after that that was in april I went back to selenus started architecting like refining the deliver the the curriculum and that was our Back then it was called level one. It's now called our foundations courses It's basically like a smorgasbord of all the different methodologies and a framework of how to understand how they plug and play together And play nice together versus, you know, just oh just mace or just club or whatever And so it's a really cool thing because then people was like almost like going to a big Las Vegas buffet If you never had, you know, they all have the different tables like they have the Japanese food table They have the italian food table. They have, you know, the dessert table. That's my favorite But if you never had some of those foods and a lot of people and you know, a lot of people if you don't grow up around here Here we we've had it all right and we are culturally diverse play as culturally diverse places You can be san jose moneray right melting pot right here Yeah, I can tell the difference between the vietnamese a korean and japanese a chinese most people can't right Yeah, you just you know lump them up into one, you know, and you're wrong all the time Wrong all the time I can say I can say thank you and hello and almost all those languages And I can order food and almost all those languages right and right and almost every other one too, but um But uh, yeah, so So that integrative approach I kind of totally lost track of what I was well What's cool? What's cool about where you're at right now, which is You know, all of us had found on it.  It was I'm an indian club guy. I'm a mace guy. I'm a bodybuilder guy I'm a runner guy, you know I'm saying it's like never made any sense to me It never made any sense to me because even though I may not personally be doing all these different modalities myself I could see the value and the benefit and I could respect and appreciate them And as a trainer it was like Wow, I could really see how something from this can benefit this particular client over there And if I'm being an honest trainer, I'm going to try and do the best thing for the client And sometimes that means that you look at your tool belt and you got to add a new tool You know I'm saying if I have a screwdriver and a hammer Sometimes I may need something else that's going to do the job I mean you saw or something like that and you know looking at all these different modalities They exist for a reason. Yeah on it did that very well And that's what really you know drew us to that and it sounds like it was you who did that really well Let's be honest. I mean that's knowing that story now.  Yes, but up to be honest the vision was already there, right? So that's where they wanted to go Yeah, they wanted to go because they already had well Aubrey's a philosopher and history buff So, you know the reason that they had clubs and maces is because the historical context of it But the reality was is like the evolution of The education is is the result of media the refinement of that stuff But you know he was looking at it more from that like the paulani, you know mindset is like, okay, it was more like Like you see a lot of people are traditionalists with maces. They still just attended twos and 360s or with Indian clubs They're just doing like, you know Basic shoulder rotation stuff exact wings.   And it was just this for me. I've always been very curious as to what else is out there You know, what are these other people doing? But me, you know Vesting in getting certified and then taking away what I felt was like the most impactful most beneficial that would blend Well and play nice, uh, you know with these other, uh, you know dumbbells barbells everything else How do we incorporate all of it? So I definitely took notice of on it, uh, for that reason You mentioned you mentioned the history of some of these, uh, I find that absolutely fascinating I'm not super versed. I know a little bit about the history Of some of these training modalities because I think a lot of people see clubs and kettlebells and like, oh It's the newest thing and it's like actually it's the oldest oldest thing Actually, it's before dumbbells and barbells like do you know the history of some of these tools? I'd love to go into kind of why how they were used historically and you know, why we have them now Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, I probably wouldn't be the best in terms of historians on these things You know people like dr. Ed Thomas. He's he's someone you'd want to bring in here and talk about that But I mean I could we can superficially kind of flirt with those ideas and and understand You know the the reality has been for me I'd like to I'd like to know enough about that. But then I think the a big thing is is It's another reason why I haven't like I don't always know everybody who's in the know like a lot of times because Um, I'm a I'm a big introvert. So like for me, I don't seek validation externally to the processes that I'm trying to work through I I do that after I internalize them on a deep way and then If it makes sense inside then, you know, I can I can put a lot of faith in it But um, but yeah, we could talk about some of the history of the stuff and in the audience if if I get some facts wrong, you know Oh, don't worry. They're quick to let us know what we do Let's start with clubs like uh, like where where did clubs I guess come from and what are they? What were they used for traditionally and what are they? What is unique about clubs? For example, that's beneficial from using them versus other pieces of equipment. Oh, man That's a that's a fun one, right?    Hello, sir Hey, bro, it fascinates me what they do with a baseball, bro How much we've evolved that sport man. So crazy that is and so that that's something so and then and then to swing Club like objects, which were historically You know some it didn't have to look like a club.  And to be able to articulate the hand and and make it a continuous part of extension of those levers and so So that's argument argumentally like potentially That's the reason our hands evolved to be so different than our our other primates other primates, right? So so we can go back that far, but then you have historically from a training methodology Um the persians and indians had taken club swinging and they had different versions of clubs Whether meals or or other like stone clubs or clubs with spikes on them And they're all just used in a more traditional sense, you know, like More of these big rotations more like a you know, single arm, you know, uh Circular circular rotations behind the back and then pulled over and then they they would do it Even historically they have like polo lani house of power They they they do it to music in an arrhythmic fashion for a long long long sets Like almost like you know rhythmic kettlebell sport, you know, okay But but again the the drill selection is relatively limited because the materials Dictated that the tools are really big Right and so that alters the mechanics to a great degree even meals like I saw jesson swinging some big meals But to get a decent weight you have a lot of material and the diameter that material changes the mechanics, right? So now with modern Modern materials steel particularly you can have a lot more consistency because even if you use high quality wood The density of wood is going to be variable at different points. So every tool is very unique Which makes it really cool. Like all these are my favorite This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine Right with the club, you know, it's a just a standard standardized manufacturing process So with the steel clubs and so now greater consistency the mechanics can be refined to a greater degree and the drill selection can be opened up because Of the relatively narrow profile of the tool and so we've been able to do a lot more with the tool With these modernized clubs and again, you have to give credit to scott for that Interesting. So the club is the first one to do that. These are a tact fit, right? Yeah, tact fit. I used to so I used to Be the director u.s. Director of education for their systems circular strength training and and tact fit So clubs really good for that articulation of the hands and wrists and rotational strength rotational strength Yeah, and and so You know, that's that's the rotational strength is actually recurring theme All the tools i'm about to we talked about being a You know heretic and blasphemer. Yeah, we're coming out with the unconventional barbell course at the end of march Um, so it's it's like Easter weekend But if any of you guys want to come to you guys come so you're gonna do a bunch of weird stuff with barbells It's it's it's more I do a bunch of weird stuff with barbells. No doubt But it's less about imparting doing weird stuff with barbells and more about an understanding of How to challenge the thought process of why You only use barbells the way that you use them and then empowering people with For all of our education not about a library of drills.   Who are you training? What's their history, you know, and then then we can come up with a unique You know game plan, but but uh, so rather than teaching people what to think you're teaching them how to think Yeah, that's hopefully that's what i'm hoping we're doing and giving them tools to to connect to their clientele and a more deep and then you know Like a little more man. It's about trust and communication Like psychology trumps physiology. You can have a perfect program But if if if you're coaching somebody the interaction you have and the trust they have and you it drives response You know what I love about talking with uh trainers who've been trainers for a long time who are really good trainers Yeah, they get that yep because You know if you if you've got a bunch of people trying to come up with an answer to a problem And you've got a lot of people working really hard. They're really smart They've got lots of integrity at some point They're all going to come to the same answer because there's one answer You know or at least a set of answers to the particular problem So it's great.  I was the first one to do that motherfucker.   I remember going I went to the Louvre museum, which is in in Paris Wonderful museum is one of the best museums I've ever been to and there was an ancient There was a section with ancient like greek and roman art And and at the time I was training in brazilian jiu-jitsu and I had learned this Particular position that I had learned right so and it just wasn't it wasn't in my mind I was just walking through this this art section and there was a tablet that was about that size so You know about the size of like a normal size poster and on the tablet carved into the tablet was were these wrestlers So this thing is like I don't know 2,500 years old 3,000 years old and they were doing it was a move that I had learned Like last week that I thought was this new cool like oh, shit. This is a new cool.  It still works though and it's that's right. It still works. That's right. It works sticks Yeah, that's right. What about what about kettlebells like what's the history of those and what are those good for that's different than like using other Tools like clubs, you know, so historically I that's another one has been around forever But what they'd use it to measure the weight of dry goods are historically, right?  It's a weight And I want to get stronger. I'm gonna use this weight that we used to measure grain, right? And so then of all of a sudden, you know, it's evolved. So it's a measuring tool first Yeah, it was a measuring tool first like, you know, you're at the the farm or at the market and it's like, okay Well, it's a pood a pood sounds sounds funny, right? Yeah, it's roughly 16. I pood Yeah, so I'm pooing. I might poo.  So that's from from what I understand. That's the original context of it And then the guy who's probably weighing every day starts to notice he's starting to get more jacked I'm jacking his shoulders like maybe I should start doing this the other time That's huge. There you go Yeah, exactly, right? And so then, you know You know, then then it became this sport in Russia, right? I don't know the evolution from there to there, but but then There's our understanding of modern kettlebells who came from pobbles You know transporting of kettlebells over here and and him doing kind of what what I like to think I'm trying to do is like Well, applying modern modern science to our current understanding of movement and training into a tool that has a time You know time honored tradition and and so then in doing so he he polarized the kettlebell thought process, right? You had the the The sport and you had the hard style RKC. Yeah, and so So that's been really cool But I love kettlebells because of the versatility the portability Man, you know, like it still bridges the gap of traditional strength training And then ballistics and offset load so it's but it's not offset to the degree that a a mace or a club is So there's the easier to teach maybe a little bit. You know in some ways it's harder. It's really weird If I want to teach a swing I find a narrow stance like a you know, like If your your stance is a hip width and you look at like skiing or like a vertical jump You would naturally explode Off off of that platform like your narrow stance So two relatively light clubs outside the legs Swinging in that way is much more natural than a short lever because the timing like the longer lever It lets your body and train to the timing much more easily versus The short lever and especially enough because your hips want to break too early all the time with the kettlebell Exactly the same thing exactly But with the clubs It's really easy because you can even see them in your periphery as they move Huh with the kettlebell.  Yeah. Well, I don't tell people like play chicken with your nuts, you know, trust me. You'll move you'll move It's kind of like remember when you're young and the girls would get mad at you and they want to kick you in the nuts You know, you'd be talking to somebody looking away and all of a sudden your knees just closed There's like a force field There's like a sensory organ between your knees We have a seventh sense. Guys have a seventh sense right there of the penis, man. That's Yeah, this is a protective reflex.  So you have to desensitize it So you have to get people to realize you need to get the kettlebell closer to your nuts before you break your hips, man You know, that's funny. Just the last minute That's so awesome. Are there any uh, any tools on the horizon and stuff that are relatively new that you're excited about You know, it's taken a uh I don't know that this new new ish or there are evolutions of of other tools that have come out, you know, so Um, what about the bulgarian bag? That's what I was about to bring up. I was about to bring up So the bulgarian bag it took me a while to really Like appreciate it to the degree it is Of how powerful it is Maybe i'll let you guys in on on a I have this buddy who had been doing, you know, kettlebell sport and bulgarian bag training on the beach in this town called yes day in italy Fucking beautiful place. All right. So at the spur of the boot of italy not the heel but the spur it says beautiful like Forest it's a national forest and around it is like really great beaches and they have the uh, Litos wait, is that the toe of the boot? Is that calabria? Or is it on the other side? No, no on the uh above the heel Okay, so near pulia. Exactly. Okay, exactly. Exactly. So, uh, so we're over there And so he used to run these uh boot camps on the beach and he was in great bulgarian bag and kettlebell and a bunch of Body weight stuff and he had this place he built on the beach. It was I didn't get to see it only in pictures But at the same time he'd been doing bulgarian bag education But then you know, hey just like everything else is someone's ip so you can only do so much with it without causing They're very protective.  Hey, that will limit the growth of that thing You've seen that with scott sondin in the clubs. Why have clubs not taken off? Well, because you're kind of a dick Yeah, so you know and same thing, you know, I don't know, uh, I have an office so I would never speak ill of him But I know he's protective of his ip and that's his right so I don't have any judgment there But but it did result in my friend not being able to to grow the way he wanted to grow So we've collaborated on a project where we're using a more dynamic resistance version of a Something similar to a bulgarian bag. It's not a bulgarian bag. It's a bulgarian bag is what it is So it's a it calls it the hydro core And so it has variable handles because one of the things with the bulgarian bag is those nipples They're really challenging and if you're distracted because you can't hold on to something It's a really hard to learn you see that with the clubs as well, right?  So so we worked on various different types of of grips that attach to uh Like a yoke shaped Um device that is water-filled. So the nice thing is now you have one tool that you can add a cup of water You know You have that variability of resistance and it's dynamic because the water is this is like a slosh pipe And and something that you can use that's so rare. Yeah Yeah, it's hydro core. So he already has some like uh social media assets that he's developed Oh, it's already out. It's not out. He just he just shows off his prototypes. Oh cool But uh, you know, they're they're in the production manufacturing process. So it's a it's a it's a really cool It's a really cool tool I think is is highly portable because you can just fold it up and put it in your in your Oh, that's dope. And then you fill it up with water.  That's convenient.  That is so rad Now are you a part of that project or is it just a buddy of yours? It's a buddy of mine and you know, he was you know He wanted to team up with with our education and our manufacturing and our brand So I was like, man, this is a really cool. He's he's he's an idea guy.  What about this idea? I'm like, well, that's not something that we would have an appetite for But you know, I can plug you in with other people and this one I was like, no this one Right up our alley. Yeah Everybody can use it. It travels well. It's it's Again one version one of them you can start, you know, because you blow it up with air the rest of it So it's still hold shape. It's not like just flopping around. So it'll hold that that yoke shape No, are you are you? Sorry. Sorry. Are you allowed to Do things outside of on it or is that conflict of interest? Like are you allowed to collaborate and it has nothing to do with on it? Like if you were he were to do a project and you're like, hey, you know what man?  Well at my current My current state at on it is being an executive, right? So I'm really honored to have a title that doesn't exist as any as far as I know anywhere else You know, if you say cfo It means chief financial officer, right? I'm the cfo motherfucker. Yeah, the chief fitness officer chief fitness officer Well, you know, I'm I'm lucky to be one of the the four horsemen You know the four people that kind of are running the company culturally and and operationally and so for me It is always about weighing out the the benefit to on it and You know, what's really unique about on it is for the most part and people that aren't in my position We really want everybody to use on it as a platform to build a personal brand We want people to be there because they want to be there and so like one of the guys that works for me Has worked for me for these last couple years.  Well, what's his unique? How can he use his superpowers to benefit the team best? And so he's gone through just different iterations as our communications manager He's evolved now to our strategic partnerships Like basically he's like the tip of the spear for all all big partnerships So exos I wanted and he he was one of our primary points of contact there Gold's jammed because of our history all of us have done.  So they're corporate offices are in in Texas So we landed a They're 150 corporate locations They're carrying on it product and we're and we worked with their director of education So our our education system has influenced something that they're they're looking to do Internally at those 150 corporate locations called gold's primal and it's just good good relationships, you know And so he's he's presenting at d1 sports performance summit Um this weekend as a keynote speaker, which is crazy Um and so and now he started a podcast called the fitness break room with uh, Jessica Webster who Was part of the uh the barbell shrug team before. Oh, okay.  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we met her Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, really pretty gal. Yeah. Yep. Yeah Yeah, so um, so so he's doing this podcast and what's great is as the person who's You know a weaponized sales force for on it He's out there building relationships. It's a lot easier for him to say Hey, do you want to be on my podcast then let's talk business about on it, right? Yeah And so so he was like, well, can I do this? I was like, well, you know I'll support that as long as when everything's said and done the prioritization has to be you you still salaryed employee You still have to fulfill all your your duties and obligations But so long as you can synergistically accomplish both goals and fuck. Yeah, let's let's let's do this I think it's good for you as a person and it's you know and me I work for the people who work for me right and I work for on it So I'm in a unique position where I I have to serve both of those masters How many how many trainers underneath you there? At the gym. Yeah, we have about a dozen a dozen of them Is it always been about that many or did you guys grow it to that many or you scaled it back to that many? Have you been consistent? We've grown it. We've grown it to that many. Okay. Yeah, we started with about six And we've been slow growing that that team because it just takes a long time to develop In when you have something that's really comprehensive and you have a brand that's that's respected that way Better to grow it slow and develop those people slow because when people can't deliver the Deliver the service in a way that's In line with what we're putting out there in our message, right then it's gotta be quality control Yeah, it is total and that's why we don't want to do affiliate gyms That's why we don't want to put up more on it gyms all over the place We probably will partner with some people We're working on on a deal with a hotel in downtown las vegas. It's a really unique situation It's not something that is we're incurring great costs to do and it is something that is a foothold in a place where we have cultural, you know influence with mma being a big part of our culture and las vegas being The the hub of any Major mma events or most major mma events obviously international stuff is big these days as well Right with a international talent. Are you is the gym that the trainers that work there?  Are you guys trying to make that gym profitable or is that just part of The whole brand and so it's not so much like let's make this a profitable gym Like if you owned your own gym, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's more of an experience You know, it's more of a validation of the philosophy of training Because that's what it feels like it feels like it doesn't feel like because I've worked in gyms for More than half my life And it doesn't feel like you're walking into A commercial gym that's trying to bust people in and out Yeah, or make their money because it's because it's a gym it feels more like it's just an extension of the brand If you will so yeah, I mean, you know ultimately what we've realized fitness is the the marketing arm It's the stickiness of the brand, you know on it's got a powerful message Which helps like and that message has not been diluted And then and so like as far as you know, our founder's message is on its message, right? So ovaries message is on its message, but you know, there's the danger of of falling out of Favor with regards to anything that's cool is not cool at some point in time in their evolution You you get big enough you become more corporate whatever the case is And so what what we're finding now is through fitness and fitness education We have a stickiness to that right so like we can impact lives in ways that people People if we do like an ad or something like that we talk about fitness It's such an easier conversation to have people know that they need to have a fitness regimen They need to invest in their physical well-being through movement practice of movement a practice of meditation a practice of whatever the case is Versus it's a harder sell to say like put this in your in your body eat this you know and so So it opens the doors to new conversations a lot of the The big partnerships that we're we're seeking are through We're like thankfully like you guys just validated right? Hey, we really loved We we held on it an even higher light because Of the approach of our education and integration and so when we talked to exos it was really awesome Because man i've been admiring what they've done in the market for a long a long over a decade right and and mark verse Dagen, you know, he's just man that dude's Freakin amazing person amazing businessman and and again holds that same energy of Messages consistent and is consistent through his whole organization Um and and seeing how that's evolved and i'm like man, that's so cool. And so when i met mark He's like hey john i've been looking to for to meet you like mother i've been me i'm looking for to meet you And he's like man, i just really love what you guys have done that's investing in education That's how we really started We had this mentorship program We didn't we weren't making any money, but we're investing in people and that allowed us to develop this network of talent a talent pool that as we grew Internationally or here in the us market We knew exactly who we wanted to tap on the shoulder because hey I had had this person in germany for five years and then we're opening this facility at uh I would call it adidas, but this adidas So so then they knew they already had people on the ground boots on the ground that were aligned culturally and And method the methodology the systems that they applied all were part all they're already on the ground using the content So they just got to tap someone on the shoulder put them in the place to make the win And is because well before they could benefit from it They invested in the development of people through their education and their mentorship programs So cool, man. You you you mentioned that you're One of the four horsemen who are the other three and how often do you guys meet and talk about the direction of on it? Yeah, so every every week every week. So obviously aubrey, right? He's the tip of the spear. He's the The the visionary that drove everything through on it, right? Then we have our Then this team has evolved recently and it was a larger team now. It's smaller Um, so then you have our our chief technology officer who is also serving right now with aubrey to run the marketing department And that's josh alley really a lot of the cool Like the fit and finish the way it's present the the brand is presented And through through the technology of the website and even though like the cool little plugins that are created They're all in-house. They're all proprietary So it's really been cool to see how some of the stuff that he's done on the technology side Is actually influenced other larger brands to copy to copy on it in a lot of ways It's it's because because we're not always trying to copy everyone else We're like, oh, what if we do you get inspired by something of someone else does and and level it up, right? And so he's he's been a huge part of that um, and then and then so So you have aubrey our chief technology officer our chief operating officer Who's a gentleman by the name of jason havy again? He has his own podcast, right? spinning logic And and so he's just an amazing human, but he's kind of like the glue of the whole organization He's you know when aubrey's not in the office. He's the one He's he's he's the fixer, you know what i'm saying and he oversees multiple departments because because now we're Primarily a four-person leadership team and we're hiring people Not at the chief level. We bring them in at like a vp or you know, even if they have a lot of a lot of experience, right? So and then myself so it's a really unconventional It's a really unconventional structure. So, you know everybody else What we found was like if we had high level leadership If they weren't culturally aligned with the vision of the brand then they couldn't be at That level of leadership they could be Just as powerful and impactful at a like a level that doesn't drive the culture as much but gets shit done Right, right and so, you know the level of trust and respect that we have for each other As a smaller group allows us to be a little more cohesive and not have to worry about A lack of alignment and purpose or vision and so I think it's it's a it's a new evolution the company's constantly evolving And uh, it's an honor to be at the table with those other three.  Yeah, that's a big deal, man What was it that what what was there an event or something that happened that made you guys all come together realize? We need to Narrow this down to the four of us that really like you said was there something that happened that made you Narrow that group down. This is just natural evolution You know what I mean there there was an exodus of a handful of people that you know a couple people that were at the table and and you know Whether that was of their own accord or or a decision made From the rest of the leadership that it really doesn't matter You know those people were great people and they all contributed but at the same time What we just found was like the people who stayed the people are still there. They're the ones who Hold more common vision for what's what's needs to needs to happen.  Is there any part that you don't like or that? Yeah, dude, you know, I think I think leadership comes with the ultimate responsibility You can't live in black and white man. You it's never clear and and you're impacting people's lives positively or negatively with every choice you make, you know Acknowledging that and still being able to You know make the decision that's right for the The entity the the the organism of on it because it's a living breathing thing You know and is driven by that the belief the common belief and and and then also like sometimes Good people are not meant to be part of that team anymore. You know, there doesn't make them less good doesn't make them less powerful in their own right, but Um, you know, this is like there's a they say there's three C's of of hiring I don't know if you ever heard that but I always add a fourth So it's like you got your character was the utmost importance to have someone of character When they join your team, otherwise, there's going to be really painful But then you have secondarily even if they're of good character Are they a culture fit right and then the competence which everybody wants to hire on competence But it's really not nearly as important as the first two 100 because I can teach people to do Whatever I need them to do as long as as a leader. I know what I want to have done Right building character is much more difficult. It's impossible Life does that for you if it hasn't then I don't want you And then the fourth one is circumstance. So like it on it We're always hiring people that are like on the uptick, you know, like Hot and don't know it yet. You know, like, oh that guy has raw talent He just needs to be nurtured and or this gal is just got so much potential And so like we want to nurture that and be part of that process Well, a lot of times that means that they have to be in a position where they don't need to command Like an exorbitant amount of of money at the same time that we're trying to develop them You know what I mean?  I totally understand that just doesn't necessarily make you Not the right circumstance. It's just not the right circumstance, man. So and that's okay.  They've done a good job with you Thanks, man. Sure. I think you're very very valuable to to on it and uh, you've got a great story So I'm glad you came on the show. I think our audience will enjoy it. Oh, I'm excited too We're gonna rip some good content with you too.  Yeah, yeah, bled.  No, I'm not gonna go He's also okay. We're gonna do it at like 11 p.m.  That might have been the episode that barbell shrug lost It was that one. Yeah, it was mysterious. Yeah, very mysterious We tease him about that. We tease him all the time about that. Excellent, man Well, dude, we'll definitely for sure be in touch I'm gonna look forward to the content that we're gonna produce right now today And I'm glad we got a chance to finally introduce you to our audience, man Yeah, thanks for having me on guys. This has been a blast Thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body Dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance Check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mind pump media dot com The rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise Programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos The rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price The rgb super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mind pump media dot com If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes And by introducing mind pump to your friends and family We thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump