Welcome back to the Vermont House of, House Transportation Committee. It is just after afternoon of Thursday, February 18th. Just a little bit after floor, about almost a quarter of two. We're about to start to hear some afternoon testimony on the pilot that was put into place a bit ago, the microtransit. And then at three o'clock, we're going to hear from the agency of digital services around the expected DMB investment in their IT. But before we start, if we could just take a couple of minutes to look at your letter, because we're going to, our letter to house appropriations, do people need a moment to find it or, but Anthea sent it out again with the revisions kept in the yellows where she made the changes? So basic, you know, it says the general, the general the house committee on transportation supports the governor's recommend for the FY 22 big bill proposal language as it's related to transportation. However, the house committee on transportation may have additional recommendations on the money monetary values included in the governor's recommend language. Let's finish on the transportation bill. Somebody just come in. I see representative Shaw. Yes, sir. You're muted though. Are you trying to- I apologize for being late. So right, we were just, we were just taking up the letter to take a quick look at the letter to a probes. We're not going to make a, yeah, the finish on it until after ADS. But if we got a second here before we start with microtransit. Thank you. We could be that much farther ahead of the game. So I was just reading the first paragraph that pretty much sums up our position. People are coming in, I'll start. We're just going over the letter. We're not voting on it. We're just kind of preparing a little bit more. I see Gabrielle came in. In general, the house committee on transportation supports the governor's recommended FY 22 big bill proposed language as it's related to the, as it relates to transportation. However, the house committee on transportation may have additional recommendations on the monetary values included in the governor's recommend language. Once we finish our work on the transportation bill and I will update you accordingly. The committee's response on each section identified for comment by the house committee on appropriations is listed below. And then goes into where we support the downtown transportation and capital improvement fund and that we support it. And then there's highlighted language that says, in addition, the committee is working with the administration, the Vermont League of Cities and Towns, the interested municipalities to determine if existing grant parameters should be modified, possibly with a higher grant amount or a lower municipal match requirement or both. And we may make a suggestion on any additional, an additional notwithstanding clause for inclusion in the big bill. So that says, you know, we love the program. We still might make changes to it. And then the next section on the electric vehicle incentives is the same thing. The committee supports this recommendation but which may include additional funding says may, we don't know, we're holding our cards on that. And then we added a little bit of a, where the T bill had included the PEV incentives, grants for charging infrastructure and a new program to encourage Romaners to replace their ride in favor of mode of transportation that produces fewer greenhouse gas emissions. Okay, I think we've seen all of that. That is enough of like, yeah, we like it, but we just don't know how much money we want to put into it yet. We'll let you know. The next section, which is around the TIB bond service fund, I don't think we had any issues with around that at all. We are fine with that as it was. And then the IT was the committee supports this recommendation. And then it goes on to say, and they highlighted, not only does the committee support this appropriation for the first phase, but needs to stress the importance of funding this replacement fully, which is expected to require an additional two phases of approximately the same appropriation amount. It is imperative that this replacement be completed as soon as practically given how outdated this system is and the need to upgrade to a new system that can keep pace with the increased needs of the department of motor vehicles and Vermonters. And then the final is we're going to leave in the language of the town highway aid, notwithstanding until we make a decision about that as well. Anybody have, you want to digest that a little bit? And then, so I'd be looking for after ADS's testimony today if we could, if people are comfortable, but only if you're comfortable, we'll just send this over like representative Corcoran says we will hit send. So the only thing we'll do is take a quick roll call with our clerk after ADS, unless anybody would like to wait until tomorrow morning. I want to make sure you're fine. I don't think there's anything complicated. And then if we get it tonight, then we'll have Anthea send it over tomorrow. Sounds like a plan, not seeing any hands, good. Thank you for your cooperation. So we have coming up, we're going to hear now the microtransit for us that are just new to the committee, we weren't here when you guys invented this or funded it. So we're going to hear a little bit about what it is because we're hearing from people that they want to support it more. They want to see it expand it. We're going to hear from the people who are on the ground actually doing it and what's going on and we'll get a better idea of that direction. Can I put inventor on my resume? Inventor, yes. Can I put inventor on my resume then? I think I'll put inventor of the internet. Didn't you, I'm pretty sure representative, didn't you? Microtransit, yeah. Microtransit. Microtransit. Right. You guys, I put it. You guys, I put it. You put it into your sentence. So we're gonna, we'll, you'll have to bear with us new people that haven't quite learned all of what that was about and that there's a lot of call for how exciting it is, including myself that thought it was pretty cool. All right, with, if we're a go, we're live, Lori does our guest have the ability to run the co-host so that if they have something to put up on the screen. Which one of you would like that ability? I'll need the ability to share my screen. Thank you, Lori. Just a sec. So we have with us, right? Ross McDonnell, Dan Courier, Jamie Smith and John Moore, right? Yes, good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for having us. You're welcome. I don't see Ross and Dan, but we're happy to get going. I know your time is valuable. So yes, I'm John Moore. I'm the general manager at Green Mountain Transit. Jamie Smith is our director of marketing and planning and has acted as the project manager for the exciting launch of this new service. So our hopes today is just to give a quick introduction to the microtransit philosophy, share some of the excitement that we have and the potential of the service model. And then Jamie will get into a brief PowerPoint with some of the specifics of actual operating details that we've seen in the first six weeks of service. We started this service back on January 4th and we'll provide some of the actual details that we've witnessed. First off, I want to thank V-Trans. I see Dan joining now. And the Sustainable Montpelier Coalition. They've been great partners to JSC as we've moved forward with the launch of this service. Also want to thank the city of Montpelier. They've provided the local match for the service. And while the service started in early January, it was really a multi-year process to get this service on the road. So in addition to V-Trans and Sustainable Montpelier, there's a large and diverse local stakeholder group that led the project development leading up to the launch of the service. So one key takeaway that we've learned is that having that initial stakeholder buy-in was critical and we'll continue working with that group as we move forward with the service and look at any needed adjustments. So we're maximizing the efficiency of the service. So really a quick background. Prior to January 4th, GMT operated three routes wholly within the city of Montpelier, the Montpelier Hospital Hill Route, the Montpelier Circulator, and usually pre-pandemic days, the Capitol Shuttle, which you all may be familiar with. So the premise of the Microtransit MyRide pilot project was to take the resources from those three routes and repurpose them into this Microtransit project. In addition to some V-Trans funds, additional funds to help kind of fill the gaps of some technology investments and potentially if this is successful, the hope is that we'll need to provide more service to meet the demand. So one thing I will say is, the first goal that we had coming into this was to make sure that existing passengers maintained access to our service. And just for some background, any service change that we implement, even relatively minor schedule or routing changes, provide challenges to some of our passengers. Change is difficult when you're talking about making change in terms of schedule times or routings or maybe a longer walking distance. So that was to be expected. This service was certainly a much more in-depth kind of fundamental change to how we provide service in Montpelier. And while we're very excited about the potential for the service, we do understand that it does create challenges for some individuals. So while we do offer a call center with a phone-in trip scheduling option for passengers, the system is really optimized by the use of smartphone technology. And we certainly recognize and understand that not everybody has access to a smartphone. So in addition to the call-in piece that over 50% of our passengers are actually calling in to our call center to book their trips, we'll continue to work with our stakeholders and the public to make sure that we have as much access to the system as possible. For example, V-SIL is working on a project to provide cell phones to folks. So there's a lot of options out there. One other thing we're looking at is providing some, I guess we'll call them a pay phone for a lack of a better term, but an outdoor phone that's free that would call directly to our call center. So we wanna demo that at the Montpelier Transit Center to start, but these are on the market for $300 or $400 are not super expensive. And if we can locate these at high ridership stops, it gives people the availability to have a low tech option to book their trips that they need to. So we're committed to continue working with our passengers and stakeholders so that everyone can access this new service. The second goal that we have with the project is really an attempt to maximize our operating efficiency. And at the end of the day to increase ridership, to increase our mode share and to get as many people on the bus as possible in all the benefits that can create from economic development to environmental benefits, land use, planning benefits, reduced congestion. One of the initial goals for the Sustainable Montpelier Coalition was try to minimize the amount of parking needed in Montpelier so that land could be repurposed for more community benefit. Increasing transit ridership can achieve all of those things. In terms of our hopes in ways that we see microtransit accomplishing those goals, number one, it's designed to increase passenger convenience in the passenger experience and will really allow passengers to take transit on their schedules and not on our schedule. And what I mean by that previously, when we operated the Montpelier hospital hill route, for example, that only operated once an hour. So if you had a doctor's appointment at 1pm but the bus dropped you off at 1.10, that really meant you had to get there at 12.10. So you're waiting almost an hour for your appointment. You may have the same weight after the appointment. So a 10-minute trip just turned into a two-hour trip. Microtransit gives the user the ability for real-time scheduling. If you need a schedule and arrival at 1 o'clock, we'll schedule that pickup to get you there at that time. You can also do it on that same day. If you're at the office and you wanna go grab lunch, you can do that. So the flexibility that it provides, I think will be a game changer in terms of drawing new people to the service while maintaining that access that we know is critical to our existing passengers. Number two, we really feel it can allow us to expand our service areas. And that's really two-fold. Number one, it's the physical access that we just don't have available when you're driving a 40-foot bus into residential neighborhoods. But number two, it can expand how we can operate service in a more efficient way. And that definitely applies to some rural areas, which Vermont is largely rural, but it can also apply in our Chittenden County service areas. And one quick case study I just thought of this morning I wanna share is in Williston Village. So we operate a high-frequency service to tap the Taft Corners area if you're familiar with that. But two miles to the east is Williston Village, kind of a historic village area, a lot of new residential development. So there is some density out there. And we did start operating service that we had to eliminate a few years ago due to lack of ridership. But from our perspective, lack of ridership is not the same as lack of demand or need. We really think that we were operating that service incorrectly based on the kind of on the ground realities. So we operated that service with a 40-foot bus because that's all we have in our fleet in Burlington. We operated two trips in the morning and two trips in the afternoon. So if people's schedules didn't work around those times, there was no flexibility. And because of the size of the bus, we couldn't access these new residential developments off the main corridor. And there's fairly limited pedestrian amenities. So really what it meant was we couldn't get to the passengers and the passengers couldn't get to us safely. So while the ridership never materialized, we think there's at least the potential. It wasn't because of a lack of demand. It was a bad fit in service design. And that's really where microtransit can step in and fill that void in a place like Willis and Village, but in countless communities through Vermont, where operating a 40-foot bus will never make sense, but there is critical need that we need to meet somehow. So we really think that's the ultimate potential of microtransit and we're excited to explore that further. In terms of cost efficiency, we have some high hopes that we can realize some economies of scale through microtransit applications. In terms of trying to combine different passenger programs with one vehicle. So like all of the transit properties in Vermont, GMT provides in our rural areas, Medicaid transportation, elders and disabled transportation, general public transportation and ADA transportation. Historically, those have been done kind of in silos. So we may have four passengers with four different vehicles on the road. With microtransit, we have the ability to start combining trips on the one vehicle, realize some cost savings and then recycle those cost savings into more service, which in turn makes our service more attractive and increases ridership. So we're very excited about that. The first mile, last mile connection has always been a challenge with transit, even in Chittenden County where we operate high-frequency service. We really try to concentrate to the main corridors. So there's a lot of areas where we can get you a mile or two from your end destination, but you're on your own from there. We work with bike share and regional planning commissions to complete those connections. But in the middle of the winter, not everyone wants to ride a bike and that's where microtransit can come in, where the trunk line will get you 90% of the way there.  So another potential benefit that we really see with microtransit. In terms of other efficiencies, it does allow transit properties to implement some dynamic scheduling. So really what that means is we can have more buses on the road when passenger demand is high and fewer buses on the road when passenger demand is low. So it's really allows us to match supply and demand. And that's just not possible when you have a printed schedule that you're bound to, you have to operate the service that you have published to the public. Lastly, another operating cost savings that we see a lot of potential is in right sizing our vehicle fleet. So right now, generally speaking, we have one size vehicle in Burlington and one size vehicle in our St. Albans and our Montpelier operations. Microtransit, with that flexibility comes different fleet makeup, smaller vehicles, lower operating costs, potentially lower labor costs and maintenance costs. So again, another cost containment strategy where we can reduce our operating costs to provide more service to the public, which at the end of the day will meet that ultimate goal of increasing ridership. So overall, we're extremely excited about the potential of this. Again, it's only been about six weeks and we have actually seen a slight decrease in our productivity from before we started this service in terms of ridership. But again, understanding that change is always hard. That's pretty typical where you see a slight temporary ridership reduction with a service change. When this started early January, there was certainly a spike in COVID cases and we're still asking the public to prioritize essential travel and we have occupancy limits on our buses for social distancing. So that certainly plays into it. So there's still some uncertainties exactly how this will play out but based on the potential of the service, we're excited to operate the pilot project and see if it makes sense to expand in other GMT service areas. So that's a quick introduction. With that, I'll turn it over to Jamie and she can provide some details of what we've seen. And afterwards, we're happy to answer any questions you folks may have. Thank you, John. I actually like, I'm inkly following you and made about two pages worth the notes of what you said. You are one of the pilots. Just I apologize for my ignorance on the bigger package. I wasn't here last year.  So I'll let Ross and Dan from V-Trans confirm this but to my understanding, we're the first and only pilot project to date. Hopefully that changes and we can expand the pilot area. Okay, and you've only been there for six weeks so far. Correct. The service has been operating for about six weeks. Okay. Okay, I'll let the others come in and I just wanna remember that. Like what did we put in, Ross might know this but what did we put in for dollars for that last, for this pilot? Madam Chair, Ross McDonald's Public Transit Program Manager and yes, if you recall, a few weeks ago I provided in the overview that we had a working group that looked at microtransit writ large with costs and opportunity and feasibility studies and white papers. Then we turned to our providers and asked if anybody was interested in piloting and with sustainable Montpelier coalition and GMT being part of that working group, they volunteered and it's costing us about an extra $200,000 for us to transition these two routes and that legislative shuttle, the capital shuttle if you remember, to the microtransit service and we'll continue to gauge those costs. What I've done is what we've been waiting for is initial early results and feedback of which as you see from John's comments, there's really not too much that we don't want to replicate around the state that I've asked our providers this morning during their Vermont Public Transit Association annual meeting to please consider their own regions, their own routes and to come to us with any ideas where we could transition additional circulator in town type routes to a microtransit regional service. So we'll wait for the applications for FY22, see who would like to, those come in around April, we'll see who would like to transition to microtransit and fund a feasibility study first and then if that feasibility comes in in a positive way, then we would work to transition that region from routes to regional service. Great, thank you. I am trying desperately to get all of that down cause it is absolutely golden representative McCoy, please. Thank you. I don't know if this question is for Ross or John. Did GMT have to purchase a micro bus, a smaller bus in order to provide these services through Montpelier, the Montpelier area or did you have buses already available? So we had buses already available. A few years ago, we did start to diversify our fleet and move to some smaller vehicles to kind of meet some trips that don't need a 18 passenger van. Through working with V-Trans, we do have a couple of procurements that we're preparing. One is for some smaller sprinter type vehicles, which we think will provide lower operating costs, still provide the capacity we need for microtransit. And then also looking at preparing some small electric vehicle cutaways that would be designated for the microtransit service when those are available on the market. Okay, so that is the 200,000 transition because you're running more buses because you have the schedule with the larger buses and now you're using the smaller buses. Well, some of it's the technology piece. So there's a direct consumer to bus type communication, which required tablets on board and a backend software system and also some unknown. So, I think the worst case scenario would have been that demand outpaced our ability to provide the service. So we wanted some backup funds in place. So as demand grows, we can grow our service operation. So we haven't spent down that 200,000 to date but it's there as needed working with Ross and V-Trans to use that as efficiently as possible. There's the marketing component too. Marketing and advertising plays a piece of that as well. Yes, thank you. If I may just- On that point, is the marketing and transportation done by V-Trans or by GMT? I mean, who provides that service? GMT and SMC, they're working with the advisory group. So we had a microtransit working group that transitioned in group to a microtransit advisory group and that has cohorts from senior living to independent living to sustainable Montpelier Coalition. They are all working through their channels of communication and their clients serve to talk about this service. And so there's been earned media. It's been a pretty concerted effort. And I can let certainly Jamie who's been managing all of this speak further to that. Backing up, if we have three vehicles on three routes during peak times, Capitol Shuttle, Hospital Hill, Circulator, right now they, GMT is operating about three vehicles at one time. So operationally, we're not seeing a huge increase in vehicle needs. We'll see when we get back to post-COVID, pre-COVID type of effects. But when you add in the demand response services to those three routes, we then could see maybe a fourth or fifth vehicle in that same region doing Medicaid, ADA, or E&D type services in addition to those three vehicles. So overall, as John had mentioned, this could be an operational pickup using fewer vehicles for more trips. And additionally, it's your six weeks in, that's pretty young for a pilot to even have any numbers to let us know. So thank you. Thank you, Representative McCoy. Representative White. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just had a quick question because I think I'm running into a bit of confusion on my end with the MTI grants that were awarded and trying to understand just, I was under the impression just looking at the list of grantors to the MTI that this was a part of that. But if I'm understanding what you said, Ross, this is separate from that grant program? Well, kind of, we do have one of the MTI projects and I'm happy to say that Dan Currier is here with us today as the Goverment Program Manager, my old job, he's managing the MTI projects and we'll introduce you to Dan. He's also been taking the Microtransit service. But one of those projects is additional funds for Sustainable Montpelier Coalition to do the robust outreach and survey work that's associated with this pilot. So we were able to use some of those funds, separate funds. We're using general operations for the service, if that's good. That is, thank you. I was like, wait a minute, where am I? Because the 200,000 number wasn't jiving with, I think if I look correctly, like the $45,000 number. So I really appreciate you clarifying that. And I put a link in the chat with the link that we have on the state website to all the different 2021 awardees. So thank you for that. Because I think that's where I was too, because I was looking for, I was thinking that the MTI was the same as Microtransit. Oh, no. Transportation Demand Management, MTI, that could be supporting bike multimodal effects, operations, outreach, awareness, technologies, all of that stuff. And again, we've offered Dan up to present the monopoly of projects that MTI has allowed us to proceed with. Okay. And that we're gonna get to today, right? This is- Well, we were talking about Microtransit. I'm sure Dan can talk a little bit about where we started and where we are today. We just haven't done a lot of activity since we've awarded in December with the holidays and with the grant agreements getting up and running. Everybody's got a notice to proceed. But anyway, Dan, where are we right now with- Well, we won't go there. You're just helping to clarify some of us that are getting, you know, that we had those two as the same and they're two different. So we've got the Microtransit at Green Mountain, Transit in Montpelier is three routes, not three places, three routes are being reconfigured with this new model of direct access and they've been doing it for six weeks. And we'll hear about that. And then I'd love it if we've got time, we have until three to get an update on the other, the MTI grant process. But I think Jamie, you're Green Mountain Transit. Correct. And I have some information, just some early metrics to share. So why don't you share that and then we'll shift from Green Mountain Transit, Micromicro to then to the other. All right. All right. It takes me a minute sometimes when I get there. Is everybody able to see my screen? Yes. Great. So I think John gave a pretty good introduction to the service. So we're referring to it as a flexible route, flexible schedule service. And as mentioned, it's a technology enabled service that we have tablets on our vehicle that basically feed information live to our drivers about where passengers are, where they'd like to be picked up and where they need to go. The hours of operation are very similar to the fixed route service we had on the road. And as a reminder, the service began January 4th. So I'm just gonna... Well, I'm gonna say that you have already because people have gotten to my ears going, oh, please, that makes sure that that stays in there. They're loving. I'm getting feedback from, yeah, that people are liking it. I think a lot of people are liking it so far. There are some folks that are having a bit of a challenge as John mentioned, but we are working with those folks individually as well as the folks at Sustainable Montpelier Coalition. There's a lot of sort of not hand-holding, but really individual outreach happening to folks who are having challenges with that service. So this is the MyRide service area map. If we had an underlayer here, you would see that this is quite a bit of an expansion over where we were operating with the fixed route service. And as John mentioned, that first mile, last mile piece, the folks on the perimeter of this service map didn't have great access to the fixed route service. They often had to travel into that service area. So in the first month, we saw about 1,436 rides, which as John mentioned, is slightly below November and December. I think that was expected. We have to date, 210 active riders. So that's, we have a lot more accounts created. As you can see, 513 people have created their accounts and 210 of them are actually using the service pretty regularly. 324 people have made at least one trip. So that's really great numbers. I don't think that we had that many people riding our fixed route service, individual people. We had folks that were riding the service frequently, but I think we've attracted some new riders here, which is a good thing. And you can see 41% of those riders have taken more than two and about five trips. So we have folks who are riding every day. We have folks that are riding, if they have regular appointments, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we have a lot of folks using recurring trips. So the average trip time right now is about 8.8 minutes. So what that means, and this is a really interesting metric to go back to what John was saying about hourly service, if somebody requests a ride, say at noon, the ride, the trip time that they're getting is within 8.8 minutes of that requested time. So for a convenience factor, that's a really great option for folks, you know, it's a lot more convenient than waiting an hour if they've just missed the Montpelier Hospital Hill, for example, and having to wait for the next ride. The average ride distance currently is 3.3 miles. So there's a lot of folks using this service in downtown Montpelier and staying sort of within downtown, which is really interesting to see. The average walking distance right now is 20.1 feet. So Dan Currier, who's on this call, has sent me a picture of the bus right in his driveway. So for a lot of people, this is, you know, really convenient for them and the access is a lot easier. So keeping in mind that this service was sort of originally set to Medicaid rules. When somebody books a trip, they're given a pickup window of 15 to 30 minutes. So the bus could arrive from noon to 12.30. As we, as you get closer to that trip time about an hour before it locks into place and folks are getting a robo call that says your bus will be there at 12.15. So it's giving them a really firm sort of pickup window at that point. A lot of people are booking same day, as John mentioned, but we've had quite a few, more than half of folks are pre-booking their trips and they're pre-booking subscription trips. So they're, you know, booking in advance. Right now, the average trip time is about 10 minutes. That's the time that people are on board the vehicle. And right now, I know John mentioned this earlier too. About half of our riders are calling into the call center to book their trips, but the other half are actively using the app. And of the folks who are using the app, we have received about a 4.6 out of five-star rating. So keeping in mind that's not everybody. It's still pretty good, I think, for starting a pilot project. That's so different from what we were operating in FixDrap. And that's sort of it. That's an overview of the first month. Certainly we're looking, the last, the first two weeks of February have been really successful. The ridership is consistent. So we are, you know, hopeful that this pilot will continue to be positive and convenient for folks. So. Thank you very much. I think for me, I see one hand, representative Shaw, and I thought for me that 20 feet, 20 feet. So we're not in town for, I don't know if that's good or bad for you folks, but we're not in town. And many of the staff and many state workers are in town. This, I would suspect, but I don't know, that this may skew your data a little bit, where people like myself, if I was staying there, I'd schedule a ride every morning into the state house or something along those lines. Will the pilot go on long enough till we get back there? And you can get some hard data about the town when it's full. Yeah, we hope so. This is a two-year pilot project. So, you know, we're six weeks into two years, hopefully COVID starts to calm down a little bit and we start seeing people come back into the office. And John mentioned, we have capacity limits on board our vehicles right now. So there, we're limiting to nine passengers on the small buses. So when we started the service and going back to the question about outreach and marketing, we were really actively marketing to our current riders. We were not pushing out big marketing campaigns to attract new riders. The worst thing we could have done was attract a lot more people and then not be able to give them service because of our capacity limits or whatever was happening. And so we are working on what's the next phase of this rollout as people are being vaccinated, as COVID numbers start to go down, hopefully. What does that launch look like? Do we have a more formal event? Who is the next rider group that we could start marketing to? So the advisory group is sort of weighing in on that. And then GMT is working really closely with Sustainable Mobiliar Coalition to plan the next steps. So it would just seem that the capital shell would be pretty popular for this. Now that you've removed the fixed schedule bus transportation there. So I really, really hope we can get a chance to use it. Sounds like we will. Representative, were you done Representative Shaw? Okay, Representative McCoy. So I think we spoke about this last year, you know, when you start getting ridership and you have people that are like I call and I'm expecting the bus within 10 minutes, but between the time I call, you have seven other people that have called. So my 10 minutes is no longer 10 minutes because you're now they're on the route before you get to me to pick up. So I don't know if we ever received an answer to that or what, you know, at that point, are you thinking you're gonna need more buses or? We'll definitely have to keep track of that. We have had a few instances in the last six weeks where we've only had two vehicles on the road for whatever reason and a driver went on break or, you know, somebody booked off and we couldn't cover that shift. And we've seen the utilization numbers go up in that timeframe. The way the system works, when you schedule your trip, you're going to get that 30 minute window. So, you know, 12 to 1230. It doesn't matter how many people book, you will never be pushed outside of that 30 minute window. So that's some level of confidence for folks. And we're actually working with via transportation, they're the ones who designed the app for us and they've provided the driver app. So they're sort of the technology partner here. We're working with them to narrow that to 15 minutes. If you think about somebody who doesn't have great access, say to a telephone, 15 minutes is a lot easier to digest in terms of, you know, how long am I gonna have to wait for the bus if I don't know exactly when it's coming? So we are working where that's the first improvement that we're hoping to make early on. So you'll never be pushed outside that pickup window. You could be, you know, pushed to the far end of it, but it'll never be outside of what you were given at the booking. So then if your expectation is you're going to be picked up within 30 minutes, but when you get on the bus, there's eight other people on the bus. Will my drop-off period be longer? So people, I'm just trying to get a sense of, you know, if I'm trying to, you know, like Representative Shaw said, I wanna get a, instead of taking my vehicle, I can take my car and get to the state house. So how am I gonna plan that? So the really great thing about the app is it has a built-in algorithm that it's booking you on a vehicle with people who are going in your same direction. And so, you know, if you're hopping on in Montpelier and you're headed out to CVMC, say, you're likely on a bus with folks that are going to the same destination or at least very similar destination to where you're going. And as we can see from the data, people aren't spending more than 10 minutes on the bus on average. So to date, it hasn't been an issue. When somebody's booking, they don't necessarily see what their drop-off time is going to be, but the service area itself is only seven and a half square miles. And so it's not likely that you're gonna be pushed too far out. And you're not really like, with our fixed route service, you could deviate at any point from A to B. I think there's a more reasonable expectation with this service. And you can also track in real time what's happening. So you can see on your phone, if you're sitting there, where the bus is and where it's going. So, so far it's been okay, but we're not building an expectation for how long it takes folks to get somewhere. Somebody who has a medical appointment, say at one o'clock, like John said, they can book their trip to say, I have to be at this appointment for one. And they'll get a pickup window. And that pickup window, could be half an hour, 40 minutes before, but it's designed in a way that we'll get them there on time. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Sure. Thank you, Representative McCoy. I already looked thinking about us being in town. The service stops at 6 p.m. So we're never getting back. We can get to the state house, but we won't. So we'll have to work on that. Cause, you know, there's dinner parties. I'm like, this is really, really good for those snowy nights when you end up way out and you want to come back in. Representative Burke. I have a few questions. I've been really excited about this whole project. So on a practical level, I have some practical and then some things about funding. Does this bus get me to the VTrans headquarters? What does it call Berry City Place? Does it go that far? It doesn't. So the service map is basically CVMC, or sorry, CCV. And it goes as far as the airport in Berlin. Okay. So, is there still a bus that goes there? Yes. Yeah. So the city can read her out. Yeah. Okay. Cause I knew that some people would take the bus up there. And then the other question I have in that, we're trying to figure out in this budget is that there is no money specifically, at least in the proposed budget for the mobility and transportation innovations grants. So I'm just wondering where that's at and why? And then I'm trying to figure out the money for this particular project came from a separate pot. Is that correct? That's, I just got confused when we had that earlier conversation. Yes. Let's talk about that. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. And so when first things first is we needed to ground truth and produce a pilot in that discussion, working with GMT, we wanted to ensure that they would have the funds that they needed to transition by the software, put the hardware on the vehicles and do the marketing and outreach that we've discussed. The reason that we don't have additional budget items for microtransit and FY22 is a few fold. One is we wanted to ensure that this pilot was working and that we wouldn't want to continue to add pilots if this one proved to be an abject failure. And of course it's exactly the opposite. And also that we do have some latitude moving into FY22 with the CARES Act funds, the CRISA funds and those formula funds that we are now instead of using at 50-50 for operations we'll be using the CRISA and CARES Act at 100% funds. What that does is that sets aside a level of formula funds where we could apply that into a microtransit pilot if we find another opportunity. So we have some abilities to move forward with a pilot with our current budget. We are looking to replace a circulator route and not to maybe start a whole new service. We also show in our budget that we have about $2.4 million left over from our CRISA and CARES Act funds at 100% federal to address COVID related issues or service related opportunities. And so we do have some latitude and flexibility with all of these different types of funds to put toward microtransit. The MTI was very instrumental in allowing us to use some of these state funds for that outreach piece with Sustainable Montpelier Coalition. And that's a 25-page outreach plan where they identify eight cohorts, school kids and employment age people with disabilities on and on commuters so that we would like to replicate that wherever we go next. We know that our microtransit consultants and potential partners have all stressed the level of that type of robust coordinated local outreach. And Jamie's and GMT has just done a really good job of ensuring that the word is getting out. So we do stand in a position to pilot another microtransit project in FY22 if the opportunity arises. Do you have any of the providers who've expressed a strong interest? Not a strong interest to date. Six weeks in, there was a lot of latency kind of letting GMT do some of the hard, risky work. And now that it's showing to be successful and as advertised and as we assessed around the country as our working group, that I think we can find some interested regions to proceed with another pilot. It could be with GMT we think about Williston and Charlotte and feeders to and from the Hill institutions that may not require to go through the downtown transit center. There's a lot of different scenarios that microtransit could be responding to but we'll have to have those conversations. The key will be to have the level of commitment that GMT has shown to this project and it won't happen if we force it. So this is really a good first step. So just one more question, if I may. So, we had a proposal here to put a $1.2 million to a mobility and transportation and eventually innovations grant program but you're saying that you actually have that money already because of all the money you've gotten with the CARES Act being 100% federal and things like that. Yes, we have our 40 million plus budget and in that we would be able to transfer some monies from regular operations fixed route to microtransit. We have some CRISA funds and we, so I think we would be able to proceed without having, we'd be able to proceed if we have the opportunity. Thank you. Thank you, Representative Burke and I see Representative White's hand is up. So you had two, Molly, we'll get into the dollars but you, the CRISA funds, what we call the December funds. Okay. So that was, I just wanted just to define that for when people, when we're thinking about it that's what came in late in December. There was 26 million going to transit that was going directly to transit. 50.4 was coming through, through going to be coming through the agency and through our hands at that point the 26 did not need to come through us. It went directly, did not have to pass, go or deduct $200 directly out. Can I, I'm gonna, Representative White go and then Representative Stevens and then I just, I'm gonna write my question down so I don't forget it. Thank you Madam Chair. So very similar questions to what Representative Burke asked and I'm sure you've had a chance to review the H94 proposal that came out and there is that 1.2 million going towards the mobility to continue the mobility grant program. And so I'm thrilled to hear that there's another source of funding so that we don't need to allocate additional money but it, I guess that leads me to a bit of anxiety that money isn't marked specifically to continue that program moving forward because I think what I heard in committee last biennium and what I'm continuing to hear is just the real innovative and powerful nature that these pilots could have on transforming Vermont's public transportation system. I mean, when we talked about last mile, first mile, I mean, that those types of problems were directly responding to here. So I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to why you wouldn't be supportive of us marking those funds to be used for that grant program and instead why you're comfortable with it it potentially being available to you through the other funding sources. All right, thank you for that. And as a program manager, more funds for microtransit programmed and to be drawn down as such is something that is of course attractive to our program as we talk about our agency budget. And I certainly, as you know, I defer to Michelle and Lenny and the folks who are managing the overall budget. So it's always that position that we're in saying, yeah, that would be great. We think we can do it. The other component of that is that we had in putting together this budget in August and then it changed again in December with the December funds. It was also before the microtransit pilot. All I was hoping for FY21 was to have a successful pilot. And John and Jamie know that when we talk, it's like, hey, let's make sure this thing's successful because we think with you that this does mean something on a large scale in Vermont. But at this point, we could probably do one or two additional pilots in FY22. And with our current budgets and we have some set-asides in the formula funds that are being displaced with our December and CARES Act funds, it could be in future years, out years when we start reaching those limits right now when we receive our formula funds, 5311 formula funds, we generally use it all for operations because we can't use flex funds for operations. So we can use admin maintenance at 80-20 with our flex funds, all those FHWA funds that we receive, but we can only use our formula funds for operations. And FTA provides $4.6 million for 5311. We were concerned that we would be hitting up against that number where we would run out of funds to apply for operations. But right now with all the support that we've received through the COVID relief funds, it has allowed us to take a step back and to buy a few years on the operational front. And in these next two or three years, we'll be having much different conversations as we clear through the capital and operational pickups that we're receiving with these COVID dollars. Thank you. I really appreciate that explanation. And I understand you're in a tight rope kind of position where you're seeing the great work that these programs are doing. And you've also got some, you've got great folks creating the budget. Yeah, I have far more questions, but I'll hold for now. Representative Stevens. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Ross. Sorry, I'm gonna just keep going in the same vein, which is it may be putting you in a place that you can't answer, Ross, to your point. Like maybe it needs to go up, but I'm hearing we would and we could and we'd welcome it. I'm not hearing, yes, we're going to do it. And I think that's what I'm looking for. Like what are those next two communities? And how does, how at least do I on this committee make that happen for FY22? This was a good step in the right direction, right? When I go back to DPTA and talk about this presentation, the outcomes, initial outcomes and data, and that we're being asked and you're sharing our excitement about the potential, who in this room is going to be applying for that microtransit pilot? I think we can find some, but I don't know who and where at this point. In my mind, do you think Bennington, Brown, Burr, Burr, Burr, Burr, Burr, Burr, Burr, Burr, Burr, could be another transit provider as you're going to. I just want to know. Yes, exactly. Yeah, we need the right partner in the right area, but boy, there's a lot of areas and scenarios, as you mentioned, first and last mile, additional services where people don't have transit service, as John had mentioned, and then the replacement of some of our fixed route services that are running around a circle with or without people, hoping that we're meeting people's demands. So those three categories could all be addressed in the next few years with different metrics and different expectations. Can I just add that I think one of our concerns is we get very excited about it. It's got really good opportunities here, moving in an advancement. The money that's been brought in allows for the expansion to happen is that for a few years, you'll have the opportunity to put these pilots out there. What we get concerned about is that we wait two years down the line over something that we would do right now or try to get further down the line today, when that would be our concern is that we find out two years from now, like, oh, nobody wanted it. We didn't do it and the money was needed. And it's like we've lost this opportunity. We wanna work with you to help you and the others take totally advantage of this opportunity that's there. We're not taking it away from anything else. This is the beauty of this moment of time. It would be a dereliction of duty if I did not push this mode as best as we can throughout the state for as many people as possible. We do feel this is more trips for more people, for more purposes than any of our bifurcated or special fixed route services. So there's a lot of opportunity here. We will proceed. One of the things we wanna be aware of and you guys have this conversation all the time, I'm sure is that we certainly don't wanna make investments in services that are not sustainable or that are just to go ahead and to build up services that don't make a lot of sense. So this pilot is very informative and these monies that we have set aside will be very useful. But yes, in three, four, five years, we certainly don't wanna be presenting you with a budget hole because we've built out to such an extent that we can't sustain services. When your secretary was in the very first days that we were meeting, we talked about trust. And that sometimes the relationship is also about trusting that these things will occur. But on the practicality, you've got $2.4 million right now that you are thinking at this moment and the agency's thinking that has the opportunity to continue not only the micro transit and then I wanna transition into time wise to talk more about some of us need to get our heads wrapped around the difference and the mobility and transit innovation grants, right? Is the 2.4 for both? The 2.4 is set aside that we feel that we would have to start FY23 with because again, we'll be slicing and dicing our formula, our capital funds, our flex funds and our state funds. As we receive these applications in April, we've asked our providers to submit their applications a few weeks earlier this year because we have another layer of considerations as we negotiate those final awards. But through FY22, I don't see any financial barriers from us proceeding however we deem appropriate. So maybe you can help me just to make sure that I don't misstep and then an FY23 end up being the source of a reduction of that 2.4 because it's an FY23. That I know where does it sit? So this is that when we transferred the funds from state funds and our local funds to 100%, we set aside the formula funds. We were able to meet our expected projected costs and FY22 with keeping aside $2.4 million in that 100% money. We will also have $6 million or so in our 5311 formula funds, which can be used for any of this at 80, 20 or 50, 50 depending on the activity. So we should be able to proceed in a measured way where at the end of the day, all the services that we invest in meet our thresholds or are proving their value like this microtransit pilot. So in FY23, we would potentially start with paying for a certain amount of our services with those leftover December funds or because between now and next, we don't know what's up. Let me just, let me dial me in because I'm not gonna go look for it. On your presentation, the PowerPoint, you had at the bottom with that 26 million, some of the uses, right? And you had 4. something million saved and you had like 3 million saved for locals. Is that where the 2.4 is? So on those COVID relief funds, and you remembered exactly, 4.7 will be saving in state funds. I can't remember your name, but I don't forget a dollar. That was like weeks ago. We thought 4.7 will save in state funds, we'll save about $3 million in local funds. We're gonna save about $10 million in flex funds and we'll be able to set aside about $4 to $6 million in other formula funds for out years. And so as we transfer those funds, that's where that displacement of those formulas to the 100% are kind of absorbed. All right, and then I've got one other question and we should talk about the other grant, which you don't have to answer right now is also, so we're getting, I'm getting a sense from you that the request or the thinking of a $1.2 million investment is already there, not required yet. We want some assurances that we're gonna, some somehow assurance that it's gonna happen. There's right now out there in the rural, there's fair free still occurring, correct? Correct. The 26 million that came in, is there fair free money helping that? Yes, we expect to maintain fair free service and our 53.11 rural area. And we certainly defer to John on the 53.07 urban program. Urban program is different. I'm talking about the rural program. Rural is gonna be fair free in FY22. Already paid for because there are requests and people who really wanna see this, this is an equity issue, COVID. So we're gonna, so I'm gonna hold you on that word, is that fair free is occurring and will occur through FY22? Yes. Excellent, we can cross that off. And then representative Corcoran, and then let's talk about the other grants. And I guess about my question, it seems like we're in a great place for public transit, a place we really haven't been in for a lot of years since I've been on the committee. And I'm looking over my shoulder and there's a $1.9 trillion package that's gonna be coming our way probably mid-March. And from what I'm reading, there's a huge amount of money was in the billions of dollars going for public transit. So it sounds like we're gonna get another injection of funds. Are we at the point of overkill or do we still see a great need to expend those funds? Because you're talking about setting aside funds and we're not gonna get into FY22, but maybe FY23. Are we to the point where we don't know what to do with the money because we have so much of it or just curious? We're gonna keep it as long as possible. The key here is COVID relief and sustainable investments. Capital improvements that can save us money on long-term operational costs fitting up and becoming more energy efficient. But no, for us, the key is that we didn't wanna go through and force the expenditure of these funds on services that are unsustainable. If COVID didn't happen, I was planning to work through our internal budget committee to try to address this operational shortfall that we were projecting. If not in FY21, then FY22, certainly in out years because we're able to use our flex funds for new starts, new routes for three years with an 80-20 split. Once that stops at the end of the three-year period, pilot period, it comes off our formula funds. So when we were projecting when these services were coming off, we were gonna be short on our formula. What this does is it relieves some of that pressure and allows us to make capital investments that are long overdue and it allows us to do some of these pilots and ensure that we can save some federal, some state, FHWA and local funds as we try to rebuild the economy. And that's well understood. But what I guess my question is, is that I think it's pretty safe bet that we're gonna get another fusion of probably, I would say probably a minimum of $26 million. If that comes to fruition, is your comfort level up here now and say, all right, we can do this pilot. We don't need to wait to FY23 as our security level is so great that we're good. Yeah, with $26 million coming in at 100%, what I'm hearing and nothing's been passed of courses as you all know, is that we've already reached that 125% of our total operating budget, which includes admin PM operations. So those funds that are identified in this next $1.9 million proposal would be... Or trillion. Oh yeah, I'm sorry, that's just crazy. But that sounds like it's going more toward the urban systems and for those systems that haven't received the funds to the level that we have. But no question, when that is signed and we take a look at those awards, we could be having a different conversation and pushing out some of these pilots in a more robust way. Yeah, and that's my concern because we're gonna see that, I think. Well, maybe we'll always still have the bill, all anticipation that this bill is gonna be passed first couple of weeks of March. And I wouldn't put pass anything pass our delegation as far as trying to swing money more our way. So I just wanted to get a picture saying, all right, this does come our way, the comfort level for the administration is there as far as starting a pilot down, you know, wherever. And it's gonna be about encouraging our providers and working with you and getting the group and making sure that they've got the energy and the support that they need to. So we'll, I don't wanna over push them either too because we have it today. But yeah, but I'm sure you're working with them and they're listening. They should be right now. Yeah. Good, can you talk to, unless there's another question, can you help this newcomer back to the committee on the mobility and transit innovation grant? How much did we put in? Where is that at now? I'll turn it over to Dan Curry or the government program manager. Dan, thank you. Thank you for having me. So happy to answer some questions. I see we've got about eight minutes and I won't keep you past your three o'clock deadline. That's right, coming in next. Yeah, no worries. And so I just wanna start off by, you know, so 100% of the $500,000 was awarded. We handed out 13 grants in total. How much was it? I'm sorry, what was it? 500,000. 500,000? Yep. And we awarded 13 grants and there was a total of 12 of grantees. And so, cause the local motion actually received two grants. And if you look at the link that was shared, thank you, Representative White, you'll see that it summarizes in the local motion that they got 500,000 for two projects. Just when you go and have that little look. In the end, I just wanna give you a quick summary. In total, we awarded microtransit, actually two of the two microtransit pilots got funding. Ludlow requested money for a microtransit study.  So that might be an opportunity for us to step into and fiscal year 2022. And then also for the projects, we're related to bike, either electric bikes or bike share. Three of the projects were related to public transit even providing rider support. One project was related to telework. And three of the projects were focused on car share or mobility support through either providing new incentives for leaving your single occupancy vehicle at home, starting a van pool or other modes. And so that's the total of 13 right there. I've been in touch myself as the grant lead for this program, every grant has been started. Everyone is able to start their work through a notice to proceed. And of the 13 projects, I know that nine are underway. And so, and I haven't had much contact with the other four that are missing from that list. And so it's looking very good. I kind of expect a slow start just given how the awards worked out over the holiday, but through the month of February, once that wraps up into the month of March, I'm happy to come back and report out on some metrics of what we've seen so far. I know that in particular, we have a number of projects related to equity and it'd be really interesting to share some of the results of their work in Burlington. I'm sorry. I wanted to show up because I started printing some of your work, trying to capture as fast as I can some of your necessary. When I go to the floor, people will ask me, what did we do? And I'll say just talk to Dan. Happy to talk to anyone. So $500,000, $13 awards to 12 grantees. It's all out the door. It's all out there happening. And you have access for this project, for other awards through the 2.4 million. I'm trying to get at, is there a requirement right now or is there a need now to put more money in this? Right now, what we've funded, have met the need for the project that were presented. And so as for whether we'd like to continue the program, we'll kind of turn that back to Ross. Sure, I mean, real quick, we think that these projects will extend into FY22, many of them with 12 to 18 month timeframes and implementation periods. So we need to work through these projects first and see what to build on, what didn't work, those types of things. But yeah, so I think through FY22, just wrapping up these 13 projects may be about the best we can do. This quite taxing to administer all this for Dan, but he's been doing a great job. Thank you, Dan. We just wanna make sure that we don't have a gap or that there isn't, as you're processing this one, that there isn't efforts to start bringing in new ones that would be happening next. Well, the other piece of the program or considerations are that Dan is the Govermont program manager. That is a transportation demand management program of $750,000 for car pools and van pools and our trip planner and kind of a clearinghouse for all efficient transportation. He has some latitude for awareness, outreach and to fund projects like the ones that we were able to proceed with the MTI funds with. So we shouldn't have a gap. I'm hoping that we can reveal enough success and benefit that this becomes an ongoing program but in FY22, we're just kind of getting started right now.  We would find the capacity. We have retainers.  Yeah, it is a lift, but we're not bound by admin limitations at this point. So I'll end with one last question than it's representative Berks turn. Are there grantees out there that have been left unfulfilled, Dan? Were there, you know, the 13, are there projects that didn't get awarded that could have been? There was only one project that I can think of. We received, you know, of the requests. There was only one project that kind of fell just below the threshold of the other, you know, we actually received a total of 18 projects. Some of them were just not a good fit for this program. They were requesting items that didn't meet the nature of the grant. And so there might have only been one left.  I'm not, I cannot recall it at this time. So the need really didn't outweigh what was funded. So. Okay. Representative Berks, sorry, I took so long. Sort of on the same theme. So if an organization, you know, has great idea or whatever, are they, are they going to be deterred? Like, because there aren't, you're not taking any new programs in 2022. How do we avoid that sort of, oh, there's this great program. Oh no, it stopped kind of idea. Sure. I can speak to that only because that's what I used to do for VTrans and for the public transit shop as the Goverment Program Manager, which was to actively engage with those who have the TDM ideas, programs, projects, assistance. So when we started 15 years ago, we just wanted a carpool matching service. And then it became Vanpools and now we have 12 or 13 contracts that are ongoing. So anybody with a good TDM idea would be working through Dan and the Goverment Program initially anyway, and we would use those funds to support their good work. Thank you. Somebody's not gonna get turned away at the door. Somebody comes to the door saying like, oh my God, I've got this innovative strategy for projects.  No, we've never done that. We've been able to generally leverage those activities through Goverment. And I must say, when I think about Michelle, myself and Dan scored those proposals, I think the ones that we decided not to fund were the ones that we thought that were being covered through other projects or through Goverment already, those types of things. So we don't have any great TDM ideas that came to us that we were unable to proceed with. I might not see that happening in FY22 either. I would go on that word trust again. We don't wanna put out a lot of money that isn't needed. But on the other hand, we don't, if there are innovations and ideas, especially in this time, we don't want it stifled for that reason. We're gonna trust you. Correct. Stifle them and say, hey legislators, we at budget adjustment, we might need something. But I'm going with Representative Corcoran. We're gonna have some room. Yes. And no question that the level of support we received from the administration and state funds with the flex funds, we started in a really good position in terms of rural transit investment per person, far outpacing those rural areas. These additional funds, these micro transit ideas, the IT that we've already invested in for a better, that's all happening. And even if we had to start with a really great, big project that we haven't considered yet, to some extent or to some level, while we talk to you about these projects and these opportunities at this time next year, we wouldn't have to say no. We could say yes to some degree while we share with you the opportunities and the needed funding. But no question. We've been well supported to proceed in almost every avenue that we've wanted to. Well, it's three o'clock and this was enlightening and informative and I'm glad we had you in. And we're gonna try real hard to not make you eat food money if you don't need it. But we're gonna, but we reserve the right to do so. All right, committee. This was good. What I learned here is that some very happy news around the dollars that they have available for them and that some of the thinking that was in a bill that many people within our body have supported, we can now lean on the fact that we're getting information that fair free will be funded through 22 and we did nothing. We're gonna take all the glory and have done nothing for it, but at this point. So that is very, that's very happy news. All right, I'm gonna put that over here and now we're gonna switch a gear. We're gonna bid adieu. I'm sorry, I never, I'm not used to excusing witnesses. I'm just, so thank you very much, Ross, Dan, John, Jamie. Thank you. We look forward to coming back to Montpelier and riding your bus all day long. Thank you so much. Thank you. So we're gonna switch now.  Yes, especially to the state house. You could have to put in after hours one for dinner time. I just uploaded the app, so I'm all set. Thanks, I'm ready. I just uploaded. You're ready to go, ready to take our presents. We all like, representative Shaw, get us a ride home. All right, we're gonna switch a gear. We're gonna move to DMV, or not actually not, well.