Welcome everyone. Do we know who the meeting facilitator for this week is? It's me. Okay great. I'm just gonna give people a few more minutes to come on. It's a very small group so far. Hey Jenny. Hey. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. So if you haven't already put yourself in the agenda to indicate that you've attended, please do that now. Just put the link to the meeting minutes in the chat. I also need two people to volunteer as scribes still. So if you're interested and willing to do that, please add yourself to the doc as well. I'll scribe but I'm gonna have to drop off early so definitely need another. So a second scribe is critical. So can anyone else who's here volunteer to be the second scribe especially for the latter part of the meeting? Thank you Ash. All right so we should probably get started. So I think everybody is busy adding themselves to the attendance but if you haven't yet please do. Are we still going around to do stand up for everyone to have a chance to say what's going on with them? My understanding is that policy hasn't officially changed yet but there's a desire to do so. Yeah I saw some conversations about that but we're still going to do it today. Yeah we'll still do it today. Like what Justin said there's a conversation I think we need to decide on that soon. All right well Justin you're on the top of the attendance list. Do you want to give your update? Sure presented tough for graduation and the TFC meeting yesterday. It had actually surprisingly many questions about obtain related to that. I'm also going to be giving a talk at a Kubernetes meetup in New York City about sick security later this month. So I don't yet really know what I'll say other than the sorts of things that were said during the intro and deep dive sick security meetings at the last big CNCF event. So if anyone has suggestions feel free to reach out to me and I can try to work them into my talk. Sounds good Brandon you're next. Hi yeah so I was just going through last week a bunch of issues in PR it seems like identified two of them which seem like they're ready probably if we have some time today we can discuss a little bit maybe we can start merging them in. Also I opened a proposal to update the initial landing page. I want to get some feedback on what we think is important information like right now the meeting times and meeting links are all buried behind the member list. So this is a hard to get to so if we have time as well I'd like to get some feedback in that. Okay if you want to just add those items to the end of the agenda so we can put them if we have time that it'll be easier to track that we want to be sure to talk about those. All right. Thank you. Bruce. Hi there yeah my name is Bruce McAfee I work at Trend Micro. I am a dev manager so I run a couple of teams that do container security one for static you know docker image scanning and one for container runtime protection and yeah so Trend Micro is just interested in you know kind of getting involved with CNCF a little more and yeah so we just like to know you know what initiatives are out there and and yeah contribute if we can. All right thank you. I'm the next person and I don't have anything significant to update. It's been a little bit since I've been able to attend and I'm in the process of changing my role so that I'll have more time to attend regularly so it's a little bit slow going but hopefully soon that'll start to flip for me. Mark you're up next. Hi everybody uh nothing too much new here I'm going to promote my my talk I'll put this into the chat I'm going to be in Washington unless my company talks me out of going to talk about DevSecOps and in particular the use of ontologies to support that. I only mentioned it in this context because I steal some good ideas from other people in this meeting so that's it for me. Thank you. Martin do you have an update? Hello uh well I'm interested in well I don't have enough dates but I want to bring two topics um I have issues about them the first one is I didn't understand um in the beginning you mentioned that you will do something in a different way but it's not yet decided. Does that mean is that for the chickens? Yeah so so there's been some discussion about whether we should still go around to everybody who's attending and and do stand up to the way that we're doing right now. Okay uh yeah that's one of the topics and the other one is um I've I've shown interest before uh in the assessments uh into uh to participate in an assessment I saw that um in one PR which which is already merged I am uh as one of the volunteers for the FALCO assessment. If there is any information for uh I don't know deadlines or where when are we going to start and so on how it will be interesting for me. Uh I would is that not available in the issue itself? Uh I don't see any I see to do this but I don't see any um I don't know deadlines or any information when are we going to start? I might even just if I were you add the comment to that effect to the issue to see if the people who are following have any information about that. I just wanted to use that opportunity if there is somebody who knows in person. Sure I'll uh I'll take a look at it and uh follow up with any additional information that I could get from there. This is JJ. Thank you. Right and I think in general we're we're basically ready to start um assuming you know but I think we're also still trying to get the full cadre of people from RN to do the assessment on our side. So um I can prod and try to make that happen a little faster but uh those on the call that are interested should also uh jump in. Did we get uh go ahead our feedback from the DOC about this yet? I think my understanding is is that Sarah's reaching out to um to Liz and others but when we were given an initial list of projects to look at Falco was on it so it would be I think very strange for them to say here's the list of five projects we want you to look at and then for us to come and say okay well we're starting on the you know a third project from that list and then to say whoa what's going on here. So I feel like um it's we're very safe in going ahead and progressing. All right yeah sounds good. All right JJ you're next. Yeah so um I uh I don't have much of an update. Six security day I think we've got uh we've got decent number of submissions and we are going through the review of the talks. Um so it should uh should get announced soon. The CFP closed as of Monday I think so there's no more submissions left. As far as uh this topic is concerned I just wanted to bring it to team's attention that there has been some confusion in terms of uh how the how we pick up projects for review and uh we are gonna we are seeking clarification with Joe and Liz on that to basically have clear guidelines in terms of like how we pick projects. Mainly projects around like the ones that are in CNCF it's pretty clear the ones that are coming into CNCF should it go to TOC first before it comes to us or are we okay just picking it up or without TOC asking us to. It's a question that we want to get clarifications on that's for the rest of the team and uh yeah and there is a work with Howard on trying to get the policy uh working groups artifacts into our repo so I'll work with them offline to basically merge all that dark end so it'll be useful for the rest of the team to be able to discover those docs in our repo. There's an existing PR that I'm working on uh that I think Sarah commented on it I'll be working on working on working on that uh which people are um I'll be happy people jump in and comment on that as well if there is any comments on that so that's about it from me. Okay thank you uh Ash you're next. So I'm working with Justin, Robert and Sarah on the review comments for the OPA assessment and we plan to get it in this Friday so yeah we've been working on those comments that's it. Okay thank you TK. I don't have anything new. Thanks. Okay Amy the next one on the list is sorry coming off of me out. Hi. Yep. Yep just tapping on be able like you know uh watch over stuff here. I'm the program manager at CNCF so that's why I don't say very much. I've been like hi hello friends that's okay I'll take it. Good fun thank you. Robert. Hi yes uh participating in the OPA comments and helping close that out is best I can help and then open the issue for starting the FALCO assessment recognizing that we're still waiting on guidance from TOC and whatnot but at least to have something to track status. Okay that's the end of the attendance list in the document so if I didn't call your name please add yourself to the doc I linked to it in the chat. Does anybody else have an update that they would like to give? I had a quick question about the FALCO assessment. Go ahead. So should we just add ourselves as reviewers or are there like a set number of reviewers already for each project? I don't think there's a set number if Justin's on the call or Brandon I think you had opinion on kind of a target number. Yeah we'd like there to be fourish reviewers and so if we had a situation where there's three who really know a project well and have done assessments before we'd probably go ahead um and if we have people that want to kind of learn and cut their teeth then having five or maybe even six is sort of okay but um at least right now we're looking at something on the order of four. Okay all right. Do you count uh do you count the leader of the assessment in this number? Yes. Okay thank you. Because uh currently I'm I I don't have a lot of experience with FALCO specifically but I am in the assessment is that a problem or like I could spend time to get in and get to know the project and that's why I'm asking for the start of the assessment but if that's a problem I don't know I'll speak from my perspective since I have the only experience I had with FALCO prior to reviewing the code uh was just you know cystic uh and in general you know just some kind of webinar exposure to it so um I'm I'm happy to have anyone who has the security background is willing to spend you know a little bit of time coming up to speed on the project either by uh my methodology code review or by operationally installing and playing around with it just to get to a bit of that said I'm I'm attending a cystic training event Thursday in San Francisco I'm happy to give a dump and and I can contribute it here or contribute it somewhere offline uh for those who want to review that material um so that might be also a useful resource. That will be awesome. Yeah let's hold off on any further FALCO questions because we do have an agenda item for it later so if there's more that needs to be discussed we can talk about it when we get to that. The next uh item on the agenda is to do a check-in with any partner SIGs or working groups that are here today so is anybody here from Kubernetes SIG off who would like to give an update or the policy working group the security audit working group or the NIST big data working group? That's a new from NIST. Okay can you give a quick update on policy? Sure I think I did uh early on in the call I don't know. I think there is a PR uh that's pending. I'm sorry I just went. Yeah so there's a PR that's pending that I'm reviewing and then I'm gonna work with the power to merge all the artifacts that they have in uh Google Docs into our repo so that it's discoverable by people um so they have they've done uh they've done some really good work in terms of producing a policy white paper uh there is also compliance uh tooling that they are trying to work on which I think would benefit a lot from some of us getting involved in it so so that's a currency and I'll keep you posted and watch out for issues on uh GitHub. There is a call today at four I believe four Pacific. All right anything else from SIGs or other working groups sounds like no so the next thing is something that came in the last meeting I think about the subject matter expert page so issue 115 discussion discusses it and it looks like we may need a volunteer to take the lead on it. I don't know if anybody else has more context for what in particular the discussion needs to be about today but if anybody does it wasn't at the last meeting so I don't know what in particular needs to be followed up on just that it looks like it needs a volunteer so I'm going to take that as nobody's quite sure uh what's needed there maybe it's something that um Sarah is doing JJ I don't know if you know you also created the issue. I am on the phone so that I wasn't commenting much but if you can pass down the issue then I'll comment on the issue after the call. Okay I just pasted it in the chat. Yeah thanks Jerry. Thank you all right the next item that's on the agenda is to follow up on some PRs so the first one is number 246 which is how we use cases for the platform implementer persona. Yeah so um there was like one of the two PRs that I found which seemed like they seemed mostly completed um I think we just won additional set of eyes um so one the first one is for the actually um maybe I'll share my screen and then we can just accept it. Okay. All right do you see my the issue? Yep. Okay so this one was for the cloud platform uh implementer persona I think this um is owned by Christian Kemper. I don't think he's on the call today though so um it looks good I reviewed it it was good um JJ else because you're the owner of the file I think um if you have any comments on it or if people on this call want to review it um I'm thinking that maybe we can look at trying to merge this soon because it's been open for a while and I don't think there's any additional unresolved comments on this. So I'm just going to paste the link in the chat so that people can add their review if they want. Yeah so this was basically um I think the this came from a discussion um within Google and also within another a few organizations said this this platform implementer we just really in charge of setting up all the cognitive platforms and then each individual cluster has his own operators so um so Christian did add one of these and also based on his feedback from speaking to a few internal folks at Google I think um it is pretty much um similar to the rest of the document with a focus on really creating the high-level policies for every individual cluster. Okay so do we have documented the process for how things get approved and merged? Yeah I believe the process is um like the RGTM and then the also one of the owners of the file reviews it as well. So I think the owner of this file is J.J. so um Yeah I can take a look at it after this call but if the general thing is if there is enough reviews and we have addressed the comments on that I would just wait for a day and this is good work so I would just push it merge it and when you're okay let me know if you expect comments from any specific person then we can try to tag them and then see if we could get comments but otherwise I would just go ahead and merge it. Okay yeah I'll let you take a look through it and then maybe just just put a comment that you if they can look at it and then we can merge it. Okay so if you want to add any other comments on this it's good idea to look at it in the next day it sounds like before it gets merged. Yeah I'll I'll budget at the end of the week so we don't have to rush. Okay and the same for the other issue 236. Yeah this one is pretty much um this one has a few unresolved comments though so uh but I think the author I've tried to ping him once or twice but he doesn't seem to be responding to that. What's the author on the call? I think it's Aaron. Aaron's old man. Let's see it on the attendee list I don't think he's here so yeah I think the the general consensus the last time we discussed this is a lot of the changes are good and I think we should keep it. So I maybe the thing we should do now is we can probably merge this and then I'll create a new PR from this. With some of the changes? Yeah with some of the changes and then pull out the discussion from that because I don't think that if um if Aaron is in that to modify the branch I don't think we can actually make changes to it. Do you want to create a separate PR that's based off of this with the changes that you were suggesting for people to review since it looks like it's been kind of a while and Aaron hasn't come back to editing. I'll do that I'll create a new PR and then we'll just take the description from that. JJ is there a way to close the existing PR? I don't know if that's something on me. I think I can do that. I have the triartro so I can do stuff with PR. Yeah that sounds good I think it probably makes sense given the length of time. I don't know if anybody disagrees please speak up but give me the amount of time that it's been and Aaron hasn't come back in to edit it that we just copied into another branch and make the edits that we want. Sounds good and if you're unable to do that you can just escalate to the chairs to go and close. I'm sure we can close. And then maybe it makes sense to just touch base again on this one at the next meeting so that if people want to provide feedback on the PR that you open there's an opportunity for them to get that link at the meeting and add their comments rather than getting this merged in the next couple of days. Does that make sense? Yeah sounds good. Okay thank you very much. So I think that takes care of the follow-up that we need to do for PRs at this meeting unless anybody else is aware of something that's worth discussing. All right so the next item is feedback on the SIGS README. Yeah that's me again. Okay yeah so I was thinking about just reorganizing the README page. If you have any feedback I was thinking the main things I was thinking about is to move the meeting times up and provide the link to the meeting documents with the meeting time and also to add a new section for new members because we have the new addition for the new members page so I think we can also add that in. Sorry I was just going to say I wonder if it would help to have an index even. Yeah that's a good idea let me write that down. So I created an issue let me put it in the doc so if there's any feedback on this we can do add it to the issue. It's issue 271. Okay. Yeah that's all that I have for that. Ben this is Dan. Yeah I created most of that README because I wonder now that we're on to regular cadence and we have kind of a core meeting doc how useful it is to maintain that list of meeting dates you know that that as we were establishing ourselves and trying to line folks to our cadence you know I thought was really important and it was a you know one of the ways that I would signal while we're having a meeting if we're not having a meeting you know let's go to the line there but now that we're you know fully realized CNTF SIG you know we would meet every week at this time and you know these are the meeting notes so that that's the section where we maintain you know the history of our meetings may not have you know the same meaning now. Yeah I always support your monthly PRs to add the funny meetings. There's also a way in Markdown where you can make a collapsible section so you could have if you if you felt like there was any value in having the links to individual meetings you could make it collapsible so at least it's not taking up so much of the README. Nice. Yeah but at this point I actually question whether it's useful to anybody or useful to anybody that is going back and trying to get a sense of whether we met or not on a particular date. Like I struggle to see a utility for that list of dates. Yeah awesome. This is Amy I'll step in for a moment here it's sometimes helpful to be able to find things like much further back say like you know three years from now we might actually want some of this information. I can't come up with a reason exactly right now but I also can't see a reason to be able to get rid of it if we already have it. Which is why it's stuck around you know I definitely agree that the utility of our archive minutes is something you know I'll lay down on that you know defend that so you know that that's the utility that that link you know provides today is it links back to on this day here is the minutes associated with that. I think the question is how available does this need to be when you're trying to be able to find the current meeting minutes correct? Right definitely. Okay then I'm going to track my comments about like we should we'll figure it out right and I think we can we can you know take care of most of that with you know Brenda is proposing of like here's the meeting time end date and minutes go and moving that up. Yeah that makes sense okay. I agree with this we don't need to to paste a link for every single meeting it doesn't make sense it just requires work. So there's the the issue that's linked in the meeting minutes if you want to add more comments on that if you have other ideas about a good way to organize it please feel free to add your thoughts on that issue and at some point we'll turn that into a PR. The last item that we have on the agenda is about the Felco security assessment so there's some conversation that started about that a little bit ago if we want to pick up or I'm not sure what specifically we want to cover about that but I'll leave that to the people who would like to talk about it. I don't have a particular I didn't put the agenda item on but I'm happy to just brief hasn't been much changed from last week other than as I noted we created a an issue to track status and Kristen or Chris Nova replied that she is in contact with the team to try to assess when they would be ready and propose a date to start but don't have that date as of yet. Anybody else have anything that they want to talk about questions thoughts? Yeah I just wanted to since we I caught at the tail end of check-ins discussion around prioritization and guidance from the TOC so you know at present the guidance from the our TOC representatives is you know keep on going document your process and you know no objections so they're not blocking us but we haven't you know yet fully ratified you know the coordinated expression of you know how we manage and triage that but you know city-state everyone's happy with that and you know the only sort of overarching guidance that we have there is you know preference preference to CNCF projects. So Dan this did come up in discussions with the father team and may be relevant to other project teams as we go forward. It was kind of the ask of whether the assessment was required by CNCF or the TOC and I guess the answer is currently no. Do you have any visibility as to whether that will change or is that the intent? Right so I think we may be conflating two different types of security assessments and how the TOC is going to manage that right. You know there's at a certain level you know full compliance security review that projects have to go through. You know the assessment is not a replacement for that though you know as we've you know set it up we do think that it is a on-ramp to that that could be useful. It's definitely not established as a gate to that assessment. It's a you know we have presented it as an accelerator as a help and we bring our subject matter expertise to you know help ensure that we are supporting a secure cloud native ecosystem. Great thanks for the clarification. I think we've kind of reached the end of the agenda unless anybody else has an item that they wanted to talk about today. Is there anything else that we should cover today? Well I I've bring this up before and I hope that I am not annoying or something but I saw that I saw that I'm in as a security reviewer of Falco. I'm excited as a security reviewer from one of the PRs which was merged and in this PR the idea of observer or internal role was removed. It's hard to say but we discussed that it's a useful thing to have and I wanted to ask maybe broadly again do you guys think this is a good idea to have such a role and if that can we discuss this a little more or can we at least speak about it or maybe you think that we don't have a good security assessment workflow that so maybe it's hard to have to have a good documentation about this right now. So I think I think we have an issue open discussing that right. Which one was that? Yeah there is 256 but so I just wanted to ask because there are two or three people who I saw that there were their reactions. I wanted to ask maybe Dan or somebody from the chairs and somebody who is somebody else besides the people who comment on the issue. Like let me understand the question a little bit like are you is it to create an extra role? Sorry I didn't catch the question. The question is that there is no explanation do we have something like an internal role? Do we expect the people in the security assessments to be security engineers with a lot of experience or is there and the idea that there will be somebody who an intern basically in the security assessment? Yeah so I think we have the so I assume that you're talking about something that's similar to the guide that we have for security assessment right? Well basically it's a simple document or a simple section in one of the documents explaining what is expected from an intern in the security this would be great. I don't because I don't know what's do we have such a role and if so what are the expectations? So role clarification itself we are working through to create a little bit more clarity, create a little bit more roles considering the amount of work that coming our way. It'll be useful to partition work so the short answer to that is it's a work in progress so be happy to hear your inputs and feedback in terms of how to structure that and we'd be happy to collaborate on that but if there isn't already an issue I'd open an issue I'll open an issue to say what we are thinking about in terms of roles between Dan, Sarah and myself. There is already an open issue I just want okay if there is a discussion which is maybe outside of the selection or somewhere I will be glad to participate. Yeah okay let me pull you in into so we haven't had outside discussion yet but it is an ongoing discussion on that issue itself but let's collaborate on that to create a little bit more clarity on that role I'd be happy to take the help on that. Thank you. So there is any assessments directory in the repository so in the in the read me in that directory there's a process that talks about each security assessment having a project lead and security reviewers and other members of the SIG participating and security or viewers links to another document that defines that role and the required qualifications so that may be a useful resource too which doesn't just say that that's a static document I think you know if there's things that merit revising in that that's something that the group would be open to yeah they get how the shoes are the right way to work through that. Martin this is Dan uh you know there's there's something that you know you may be encountering here where the team the assessment team is still getting up to speed and sort of hitting the rhythm and you know hasn't sort of gotten to optimal state um having uh and and uh you know the the the delta between an observer and an intern for me as an engineering manager is vast uh an observer is an individual that is going to watch they're going to learn and they're going to be autonomous uh an intern is someone who um is uh you know basically apprenticing to learn an effort and if you have an intern or or someone who is uh you know coming and joining and learning the system then uh you know the the core working team um you know has to make a commitment to ensure that individual is uh you know doing effective work and they have to you know kind of double their efforts you know doing the assessment working through that and making sure that the new individual is uh getting up to to speed um so uh you know conflating those two concepts may uh be slowing down uh you know this discussion it would be useful to uh under to understand maybe and to clarify what do we expect more uh do we expect observers or interns so yeah that that's that's a big question and uh we can comment that on the on the issue on the issue great I think there's more going to be more willingness right now to um to embrace observers and uh you know someone who's going to participate but that that is also uh you know starting with that observer state uh could be a great way to uh you know then get invited uh to participate and have someone you know take on uh of uh mentorship capacity to ensure that the uh new participant is uh able to be a be effective in learning I agree are there any things that we should also talk about related to this recent topic or do we have any other topics that we want to talk about before we get off the call I want to talk about how to talk to it go ahead I just have a very basic questions on this I've been looking at this and hearing all this comments and analysis and all those things the question that I have in my mind is um at the end of the security assessment uh complete completion rather um what would they do with that what what is the actual um benefit out of that thing and what's the motivation for them to go through this I didn't that didn't mean to silence everybody by but I'm just basically asking just you know let's say I'm an ABC company and I'm working on some security product and I do have a serious interest to the uh to be compliant with the native uh you know cloud native applications and such and so forth I go through this and uh is there a certificate that are going to be issued that is going to be you know recognizable in the industry community in some ways or is that some sort of a um uh you know parametric measure for example that okay well if you pass this one then you go to the next stage and then you go to the next stage and so forth I mean it's not clear to me exactly against what we are assessing this so I'm just noticing that Justin isn't on the call anymore TK I feel like he probably is maybe the person who is best suited to respond to this question uh so it might be worth waiting until next week to raise it when he's on the call because he's officially the facilitator for these security assessments okay um it might be that there's not a much of an answer right now because he's not here and neither is Justin Kormak who's listed as the um one of the security reviewers so we just may not have the expertise on this call to answer while yeah and I just you know touch on the high level it's yeah yeah we're uh you know serving uh you know the CNCF um that sort of official capacity we're a um you know an expertise body uh and not a issuing body or an entity that that um you know can uh back and validate things at a certain level um so uh the CNCF does have some programs that it is able to um you know provide access station about uh you know the state of uh you know it's projects uh and um you know anything at the level of certification uh you know producing a document or um you know having an outcome in that that capacity um would have to be through uh the the CNCF and what is that what is that CNCF mechanism so if I want to get a certificate for my project what is that mechanism um oh god the um the gold silver status of the projects right yeah I mean you can become a member of the the CNCF with your project um so you know this is uh project based and not corporate based and um I don't know that beyond kubernetes certification um right this is the kubernetes certification project um that the CNCF has uh developed any uh other um certification um and access station uh products yeah so go ahead oh I'm sorry I just for that was a good question but on the follow up what I was thinking is so that means there was no actual agreement through our TOC for example with the CNCF that um our security assessment will be somehow linked with those certification process that CNCF follows at this point I mean we are doing these things on our own and the CNCF has not quite uh either blessed us or no no it's just that that um it's an all sort of business step that uh you know you're you're reaching for um I don't think is is something that this SIG will ever be um be doing and that that would be a program of the CNCF okay I would just but I would just say that I think it's important to make that clear because as folks go through the process or choose not to go through the product because I mean OPA just went through the process I'm not sure if they were aware that that there was no expectation that the assessment was not a a requirement of the CNCF or was going to be required at some point and then similarly Falco like I said has asked similar questions so I certainly don't want to mislead anyone if they're asking if it's going to be required what's what's the benefit to them of doing it I don't I don't I'm not hearing that there is a particular benefit to doing it oh and I'm not asserting that at all uh but I'm not saying that what I'm saying is that we're not going to be uh providing a security at the station um you know from a working group but we do we give a report to this POC correct because that's what there's a report there's a guidance there's an advisory uh but an at the station and an official seal and an approval that that's something that um you know a working group is um you know not authorized even to to provide that's going to be you know tied to programs that the the CNCF provides but then wouldn't you agree that at least we being as a authorized working group on the security under CNCF we should be aiming for or at some point I don't know when we should be aiming for to become some sort of a accreditation type of body that which either endorses certain guidelines or provides some sort of a certification as such on behalf of CNCF so that there is motivation in the industry to participate in this type of assessment process or to be evaluated through our uh process the first part yes the the first part of like uh ratifying the uh the criteria yes um you know becoming a uh an entity that um you know does that work that that's work that's you know and I uh you know fundamentally believe that individuals participating in that should get compensated for that work uh and that we should not have that be uh you know a product of um you know an expert forum like this you're absolutely right actually the last part that you just made the comment that was actually on my mind that was wondering about even on this security assessment 80 hours 40 hours whatever for the lead or the assessors and such you know how are that being motivated and who would be providing those I'd like to speak to that because there's someone who's volunteered without any expectation of compensation knowing that it would require having paid for security reviews in the past having been compensated for security reviews in the past knowing the amount of work soberly involved I felt that it was an important contribution to the open source community so my expectation was far more motivated around putting forth a process that was part of the cncf uh community as securing the infrastructure and the and the projects that cncf puts their name behind that the community puts their faith in based on that open source model so open source not just being code but open source being processed being being uh confidence being due diligence etc whereas today yes I can I can take my commercial product and I can go hire a firm to do code reviews and security designer use or to write code or to review code etc but I can also choose open source and I can choose to a community that vets that open source so I my my expectation was that the assessment work we are doing if not a you know a seal of approval or a you know a tangible certificate was at least going to mature into a cncf process that would give the community reasonable expectation that just the project had been reviewed by the community to consume that information on their own as educated users whether that was sufficient and they desired some other total view by commerciality or if that was now the project now that's that's a good point but I think the demarcation line over there is the on the open source you may not necessarily have a serious commitment to take some responsibility of endorsing something on behalf of certain uh thing I could be wrong but I think there is you know without being compensated the volunteer probably may not be in that position to make that kind of commitment I mean I mean kudos to you and and many others you know I have volunteered also myself and many things but but I kind of stand to feel that it is difficult to enforce is a time commitment or an effort commitment with a specific hard date to get something done on on those type of things but it's a very good noble effort there is no question but I'm not taking any credits away from the folks that are want to do it and also participate I'm just wondering what we should be doing in here I think what I'm hearing from Dan is that we don't have a we are not making commitment but we're encouraging I guess to we're supporting open source so like these are open that we can provide an open source assurance we are providing support and guidance on the required journey and we're you know working now with this the TOC to you know to spine and structure better those expectations you know and the the full CNCF products have certain security requirements those who have gone through that process have seen that and especially the the triangulations of individuals that are in our community who happen to also be security experts you know they understand that the the you know commercial security assessment and the ecosystem participation and involvement that is intrinsic and open source you know don't necessarily overlap and you know I see the effort that we're putting in place you know serving that gap that is open source and supporting a secure by default community and helping ensure that those individuals you know have actually vetted understand what the challenges are and understand you know they're connecting into an ecosystem and are not like most commercial efforts you know a isolated island but wouldn't it be easier though to as an open source community as you said to establish or create among us a set of clear guidelines for the people to be compliant and then living up to them how they assess themselves against that so that's really in my thinking I feel that's what we're working towards you know since this is you know an evolving ecosystem I don't know that is well-defined and as we've collaborated with other more institutional bodies you know I've that that personal assessment has only been reinforced and you know that goes back to my defense work in the early 2000s. So Tika I would compare this to say the CII initiative so they they publish a set of guidelines for their badging program bronze silver gold and it's completely voluntary for the projects to fill things out and and submit you know whether they're in compliance or not and whereas I see the assessment process here is taking that one step further to have an independent body review information submitted by the project and then actually check is that information accurate as a crack was a complete just just as a a checksum to that on a couple of the projects that had submitted CII submissions I just did a naive cross check to what they had submitted and for the most part everything was fine but I found some omissions things that were submitted that weren't actually present by by accident or by omission and and some things that were in fact incorrect so I think self-assessment is is and having a guideline like the CII has is a useful prerequisite but I think having an active assessment adds value above and beyond that and whether that's compensated or volunteer or or not I think it for it to have any benefit and I'm speaking in the benefit the kind of the practical benefit Dan of you know a project has limited cycles there may be a commercial entity behind it there may be project manager behind it they've got to make a time between do we allocate resources to this thing or not and if they don't have a concrete connection to the CNCF to do this thing it might be a theoretical value in the security sense but is it a practical value if they then also have to go through some other process that's all I that's data points I'm getting from actual conversation um I'll just I'll just submit that to the to the group and you know I think it's an important discussion to carry forward true and I think we're reaching to the end obviously just quickly though and whenever you do something as an independent body you it's not a casual thing so I think there is a responsibility of liability as well I mean you take some certain kind of responsibility to stand behind that statement of assessment and and like it's not clear to me uh how we are doing it that's all I agree and I think that that is you know in part uh you know also driving efforts like the subject matter expert uh initiative where we're you know establishing some of that authority right it sounds like we could maybe continue this at the next meeting sounds like there's a lot of stuff to talk about here um but we are past time now so thank you everybody for joining today I don't know if you had you said you had a closing comment you wanted to say oh I just wanted to thank you Jeremy great to see you and uh great job thanks everybody see you next time dance comment yeah thanks bye


Internal Revenue Service, IRS Tax News, IRS Updates Information on Tax Credit Helping Businesses to Hire Certain Categories of Workers. Oh no, here we go again with the categorization of people, categorizing people and making laws based on arbitrary categories being a government obsession these days. Let me guess, let me guess, when compared to the general population, department stores have a shortage in representation of convicted kleptomaniacs. The IRS is like, can you believe it? Those poor kleptos, you bigots. We demand you hire more certified kleptomaniacs into the position of counting inventory. And once hired, the kleptomaniac may not be arrested for stealing because that's insensitive. I mean, can't you see they have a condition that's outside of their control? And it's like, well yeah, IRS, that's why I wasn't going to hire them into the position of counting inventory. And the IRS is like, oh my gosh, there you go again. You bigot. In any case, first attempt at a joke. My cousins are just like two peas in a pod. Two sloppy peas in a pod. They really want their own place. Well, if he's moving in, I'm moving out. I mean, you think living with two people in a studio is bad? You think it's bad? The first three months of my life, there was a newspaper strike. Try sharing the space of a little pod. But the women here aren't comfortable sharing a bathroom with...  With what? With what? I mean, when you can hear the peas through the pod, exclaiming to each other, living with you is worse than being eaten by a giant monster. I'd rather be murdered. That's when you know the veggies. They're ripe for picking. They're ripe. IR 2022-159, September 19, 2022, Washington. The IRS today updated information on the Work Opportunity Tax Credit, the WOTC. There's a link to that here available to employers to hire designated categories of workers who face significant barriers to employment. For employers facing a tight job market, the WOTC may be able to help. Today's updates include information on the pre-screening and certification process to satisfy the requirement to pre-screen a job applicant or on or before the day a job offer is made. A pre-screening notice, that's going to be Form 8850, pre-screening notice and certification request for the Work Opportunity Credit. There's a link to that here. Must be completed by the job applicant and the employer. The targeted jobs tax credit, that's the TJTC, which preceded the new WOTC, did not contain a pre-screening requirement. So you might not be familiar with this, even if you've done similar kind of processes in the past because of the update with the WOTC from the TJTC. So in acting WOTC to replace the TJTC in 1996, Congress included the requirement that employers pre-screen job applicants before or on the same day the job offer is made. In doing so, Congress emphasized that the WOTC is designed to incentivize the hiring and employment of certain categories of workers. So obviously you would think that you'd have to make sure or have some kind of proof in essence that they fall into those categories, for example, to get a benefit. So after pre-screening a job applicant, the employer must then request certification by submitting Form 8850, there's a link to that here, to the appropriate state workforce agency no later than 28 days after the employee begins work. Other requirements and further details can be found in the instructions, there's a link to that here to Form 8850. WOTC has 10 designated categories of workers, the 10 categories are qualified IVA temporary assistance for needy families, TANF recipients, certain veterans including unemployed or disabled veterans, the formerly incarcerated or those previously convicted of a felony designated community residence living in empowerment zones or rural renewal counties, vocational rehabilitation referrals, summer youth employees living in empowerment zones, food stamps, SNAP recipients, supplemental security income SSI recipients, long-term family assistance recipients, qualified long-term unemployment recipients. Although the credit generally is not available to tax exempt organizations, a special provision allows them to claim the WOTC against the employer's share of social security tax for hiring qualified veterans. These organizations claim the credit on Form 5884C, work opportunity credit for qualified tax exempt organizations hiring qualified veterans, there's a link to that here, you can visit the WOTC page for more information, there's a link to that here so you can get updated on this and see if it might be something that would be appropriate and fit in with your hiring process and so there'll be links to all this here, there'll be a link to this in the description.


Is there a weasel back here? A piece of diesel exhaust that's going to pinch between the bunk and they're inside that one, you see? So that the big pile doesn't keep coming closer and closer this way. I can make it more even this way. Empty trailer behind us now. Let's head back home. I'm going to stop at the Klein J on the way home, grab some fuel, fuel this thing up, leave it full of fuel because that's how I found it. And grab me a bean to cup coffee because I think I deserve one. Myself in so I don't fall out once I get off private property. I'm gathering all of my stuff. Chargers here. Hard hatch, I'm going to put this back into my truck because tomorrow I'm using my truck and we're going up too long. And I got to go pick up a rental trailer on the way up there. Charger's cleaner than I found it. All right, we will see you tomorrow. I got to bring my vacuum. Hi, you can't vacuum this truck open. I'm going to put carpet in here. I never understood that. In semi trucks, when they used to put carpet, I say used to because I don't think it's as common anymore. Usually new trucks have like that rubber kind of, rubber kind of flooring in there, but they used to put carpet in trucks. You know how hard that is to keep clean? And back to the passenger side here. This is what it looks like without all my stuff in there. So remember the freight liner century that I used to have? I took the passenger seat out of that one too. Same idea. You only need one seat. You don't have passengers very often, I guess. It's a very nice seat he's got in there. However, the only thing I don't like about it is there's no headrest back there. So my own personal preference, I guess. Pretty small, but just big enough, right? Looks like I got all my stuff. Let's make sure, let's make sure. I don't want to have to go track them down tomorrow to get my stuff. Okay, I'll just lock her up and that'll be that.  Wish my truck had one of those. Okay, is there a weasel back here? Maybe a Chevy? There he is.  Why'd you bring your frog outside, man? He wanted to go to bathroom, man. He's going to the side. Why did you miss me today? Why'd you got your frog? Good boy. So yeah, it was a good day. Wasn't too long. I thought it might be longer just because it was my first day on the picker truck or the boom truck, but it turned out all right. Had a lot of fun. Is there a weasel back here?


Hi guys, thank you so much for joining me. I don't have a prepared Script or anything like that. I think I'm just going to talk from my heart and those of you that are interested and hearing a little bit about What this has been like for me? You know death and depression and devastation I know it's not a happy topic But it's my real life right now so Thank you for joining me anyways, I It's like how do you even begin to describe the emotions that you go through when when you lose Probably your whole essence, you know everything that you've Everything that made you, you know every bit of you. That's That's you is gone in the sense so You know, I know some of you who have followed, you know your friends with mine on Facebook and and some on Instagram And I've really been quiet on Instagram haven't said much at all, but on Facebook. I've posted a lot of stuff about What I'm going through with my parents and their death and you know, how what the what the adjustment has been like and I haven't been I haven't been able to bring myself other than the video I posted When I talked about my mother dying when Jay and I went and picked up her ashes I haven't really been able to bring myself to do a video about her and about my feelings and I just I just didn't have it in me. I didn't think that I could really talk Without you know breaking down crying Because even though everyone says oh, you know time heals all wounds. I know it does I Know time There will be a point in time when I can think back and I can and I'll smile more than I'll cry and I look forward to that Because I do have a lot of wonderful memories cherished moments of When I was with my parents when I was raised By them So silly I know here. I am 69 I'm 69 years old and I've lost both my parents and I feel Devastated I feel devastated I'm I think I'm really struggling with depression over this There's a whole lot of stuff that's happened. That's going on that you know, it's just way too much to even Attempt to talk about in a video, but the normal stages of grief no matter how old you are It doesn't it doesn't get any better because you're older It doesn't get any better because you had them all these years. It doesn't it doesn't get any sometimes I think it's actually worse because you've had so much more time with them and so much more being used to being with them You know that they've been for 69 years and every day part of my life and then all of a sudden bomb You're an orphan, you know, you don't have them anymore. How do you deal with that? You know that feeling that overwhelming feeling and You know, I'm put I'm pretty vocal. I mean I post about it I've posted photos. I've talked about it mostly on Facebook because I have a lot of friends and family and co-workers and stuff like that that are there and You know, I'm pretty vocal about how my feelings how I how this has really impacted me So I get a lot of good advice and a lot of good suggestions and and I so appreciate all that But I'll tell you it is not it doesn't make it any easier because you've had them For a long time.  I always say well at least I've had them all this time and You know, I have 69 years of memories built up, you know We've been the first few years. I don't remember much, but I have all those memories built up when my mom died and I know I mentioned this in a previous video, but when my When Jane I went to and I haven't really even talked about much about the trip You know, I posted that one video when we came back on the vlog on Hawaii and Vegas Well when we came back and mom had fallen Jane I came down with COVID and mom had fallen broke ribs when in the hospital and I did, you know, I couldn't see her until I had the the clean test Which thankfully I did get so I was able to be with her the last day of her life but you know, it could face time and and It's it's not the same though as being there and touching someone and and all of that But when mom went in the hospital that Friday night, I had a dream I talked about the dream in my previous video So I'll just summarize it but in that dream Probably because it was really stressed out that mom was in the hospital And I just really was feeling this was the end. So I had a dream that dad my dad was coming for her and And and I and I said to Jay I feel mom is gonna die on Sunday Easter Sunday That was their 71st wedding anniversary and I feel that dad was coming for her She had her her body had started to break down She was denying going to the doctors. We wanted to bring her to a GI specialist because she wasn't eating She was losing weight Her blood volume was low. So the last at least this year 2023 and actually most of last year, you know, she lost my dad. She lost my brother So, you know, it was all these losses, but she still seemed to function well. She had her friends We took her out. We did Jay and I I'm so happy because we have all those memories of When we took my mom and dad out for rides and then after my dad passed my mom out for rides and we did things with them I'm so happy about that and I'll tell you all if you still have your parents take the time to make those memories take the time to do that because I have no regrets. I have absolutely no regrets. I think often of the rides along the coast or the rides up to the mountains or just taking them picking them up bringing them to my sisters and Having 45 minutes. Sometimes I'd re-quit them 45 minutes to an hour in the car talking uninterrupted But yeah, you know making those memories and Those moments now as as in this stage.  So Did I have a full day? Not all that often, but I had I had enough that I really felt It really felt it was impactful. It was quality time. It was quality time and that to me is The biggest piece Because that gives me no regrets. I think of all the stuff that we did all the times we talked and I have no regrets That's that's a really good feeling Before Jay and I went to Las Vegas for our convention and then for a little mini trip to Hawaii Mom told me about a dream she had and in the dream She thought it was so real because she saw dad in the hallway at home and she was talking to him And she was really couldn't believe it was a dream and I remember saying to her and this was probably within the last month of her life I remember saying to her you must really miss him and She said that she did and I wanted to say are you feeling ready to go to him again, but I didn't I didn't say those words But her dream and then the two dreams that I had Friday night and Saturday night the exact same dream Dad was coming to get mom and it was going to be April 9th Which just happened to be Easter Sunday this year was going to be April 9th Which was the wedding anniversary and that is exactly what happened her kidney started to fail She really started to go downhill Saturday night and Sunday and we knew that we knew it was it She had all her friends not her friends. She had all her family around her as she left this earth her grandkids were there Those that could not make it in person my niece who lives in South Carolina She was on FaceTime live the whole thing. She was with us every moment Those last moments must have been so hard for her to be so far away And only be able to be there that way I'm sorry get emotional This is by far been the hardest thing I've ever gone through in my life You know, I realized now and I've realized this for a while that all the stuff that we gather At the end of the day No one's gonna want it.  They've lived in that house and The Photos and the letters the things that they saved the memorabilia the things that were important things that they touched We're going through all of that and we're We're thinking You know, who's gonna take this who wants that and there's so much stuff That it's so sad because there are things that I don't have room for, you know, my sister just have room for and Yeah, so it kind of reinforces to me and Jay that we need to go through all of our stuff So our kids don't have to go through it as much, you know, I mean, we still have the attic to tackle We're doing the basement. We're doing all the rooms in the house You know, it's just it's just an astronomical job and we find these treasures as one picture My sister posted it of my mom and dad when before they were married probably 1948. I'm thinking I'd never seen this picture before Never it was found in an envelope.   I Have it. It was hanging in her closet Under plastic, you know preserved nicely. I have that that dress. I don't know if I'll ever wear it I don't know if it'll ever fit me. I'm a lot taller than my mother Bigger bone than my mother, but I have it and I have their wedding band This is their wedding band and I'm gonna wear it around my neck Because I don't want to size it My mother had bigger fingers than I do I don't want to size it and I don't want to just wear it on my my fingers I just want to wear it up close to my heart as possible Because it's it's a piece of them It's the ring that my dad gave my mom when they got married and it means more to me than Almost anything right now. It's those memories So I wanted to come on and just say Please please please do whatever you can so you have no regrets You know take the time. I know we're busy. I work full time. Everyone is super busy doing all sorts of different things But there will be a day When you won't have your loved ones anymore and those of you that have already gone through it You know exactly what it's like. It doesn't matter how old you are Doesn't matter how old they were doesn't matter that they lived a good life doesn't matter The pain is there the pain is raw and it's one step at a time and for me anyways talking about it Helps me deal because I feel devastated I feel every time I'm in the house and I touch something my dad built the house My dad built the house for us and we have all these memories there It's time to let those go You know, it's time to let those go and it's so hard It's so hard so hard But I wanted to come on and say I'm okay And a lot of people say are you okay monica and I'm going I'm okay, but I also know It's okay to not be okay, and it's okay to say I'm not okay I'm just so conditioned to say I'm okay They're really not okay. I'm getting there though, but I may meeting the depression I'm admitting the overwhelming devastation of how I feel I'll get back on the bandwagon. I've got a number of reviews In fact, the next few videos that you see will probably be those reviews. I have to get them done There's a couple of products. I'm so excited about sharing with you, but I I went to do this first So I wanted to do this video Because I wanted to share with you all of the feelings About what it's like what it's been like for me But I wanted to still go on and carry on and do the things that I have to do because I know my mother and father Would expect that of me. They would expect that of me And I'm going to be the daughter That they expected I to be I would be or continue to be I'm going to put that smile on my face Even if I'm smiling through tears, I'm going to put the smile on my face And I'm going to treasure all those memories of mom and dad and I'm going to continue to make moments with my loved ones Then I can treasure so that I know I will have no regrets Regrets can really get to you It really can Anyways, thank you so much Thank you so much for watching The videos I have coming up the reviews some products that I'm super excited about I'm going to share that with you One product I was starting to use when I went to Vegas So, you know, that was the end of March, right? And so if used it for a while and another product that I just started using that I'm like over the moon about so I'm going to be sharing some products in my next video and every now and then I'm not going to try to be too much of a Monica Downer, but Every now and then I'm going to talk about the grief process because it's like just such a huge huge part of me So I hope you've been with me. Thank you so much. Love you all


Good low single guys will keep us alive there. If I low single here, if he just drapes over my head and sits, I'll crush him to death right here. I'll start pinning him to the mat right here. I can finish a bunch of different ways. Coachman talks about coming here. That's real tough for him to finish. That's tough for him to defend anyway. It's real easy for me to finish. If we drape over the top, good low single guys will eat our lunch. That's why I have to pull. I have to break this guy's position. He's solid here. If I drape, he's going to elevate every time. He'll change knees and step his other foot up. We've got to answer for some of them, but we're just dropping straight down like an elevator. That's not going to work. He's in on that low single. I've got to beat his position. He's in good position here. I've got to get to the hip and I've got to crunch his head and cover. I'm driving into him. Then I'm attacking the leg. Elevate. Keeping his head down on the mat. He wants to build and get height. I want to crunch him up. What do you want us to do? That's where I want to go. I'm looking around to see if guys drop down on the top.  We're going to end up upside down real quick. Can we fix it? Let's fix it.


With the new Disney movie Descendants 3 trending right now, it seemed like a good time to talk about one of the stars, Duff Cameron. If you didn't know, Duff plays Maul in the Descendants movies. I'm a huge Disney fan, but these movies I'm not as familiar with. From what I know, it's all about the teenage sons and daughters of Disney's most popular villain. The original release date was actually postponed due to the recent passing of actor Cameron Boyce, who was also one of the main characters in Descendants 3. That was undoubtedly really sad for everyone and of course for his fellow castmates like Duff. But today we won't really be talking about the movie or any of that. Duff, and know that wasn't her birth name, her given name was Chloe, has clearly changed a lot since her start as a Disney star. Born in 1996, Duff is 23 at the time of this recording. Although she's always been a pretty girl, she has made some changes over the past few years. These days, Duff has starred in plenty of TV and movie roles, is an Emmy Award winner, and is also a singer, both releasing music with Sony and starring in musicals, like her role as Cher in Clueless the Musical. Her Instagram following at the moment is over 29 million followers, so it's clear that the girl has a ton of fans. But like many child actors, she got her big start with Disney. Duff was best known for her dual role on the Disney show Live in Matty. My Disney Channel days were back with Lizzie McGuire and That's So Raven, so I can't say that I've watched this one. But I do know that Duff played the role of both twins. Like most teen or Disney actresses, she was really cute and likable already. But looking at before and after photos, I think she had some work done to change her appearance a bit. It's actually pretty interesting because it seems like Duff did get cosmetic work done, but a lot of it started when she was still really, really young, like 14. You guys can let me know what you think after this video. What's going on guys and girls, my name is Cara and this series we've titled Before and After. Today we're going to focus on Duff, any cosmetic work she's had done, and her overall transformation over the last few years. I've done other celebrity transformation videos including ones on Bella Thorne and Ariana Grande, and we'll have links to those at the end of this video. I've also been reading all your comments and I'm going to be responding to some at the end of this. As always, if there's anyone else you want me to document, let me know in the comments down below. Now let's get into this video. Let's start with what I think changed the most. Duff's face. Straight up, the girl looks like a doll, but it's hard not to wonder how much of it is actually natural. Looking at pictures of Duff as a child before she was acting, we can see that she had a larger nose. It was much more prominent than it is today, but when exactly did it start looking different? In a 2011 head shot when Duff was only like 15, her nose already looks way smaller on her face. It's also sleeker and there's no evidence of a bump on the nasal bridge. She was also just starting to act at this time, but her look already was changing. My guess is that she would have had to have an early nose job and having one this young means her parents would have ultimately made this decision whether or not it would happen. Interestingly enough, Duff's mom Bonnie J Wallace has written a book called The Hollywood Parents Guide, Your Roadmap to Pursuing Your Child's Dream. Well, I can't say that I've read the book, but I do think a parent who's so passionate about their child reaching stardom wouldn't mind them getting a little nose job or plastic surgery here and there. Working down the face, the other part that I think makes a big difference in Duff's beauty transformation is her lips. Comparing pics from then and now, you can see how drastically her lips changed in size. Even when she was only 16, at times her lips seemed unusually puffy or not quite even looking. I'm really not sure when the fillers began, but that would be my best guess for her plumped up lips. Duff's lips are always looking extra full these days, but I think they suit her. Duff's cheeks also look a bit different, so there's always the possibility she's gotten other fillers in the face. Looking at pics of Duff from then and now, we can see her cheeks look fuller and more defined than before. It's also very possible that these changes came natural with maturing and losing baby fat. But this leads me to another speculation. Some have also suggested that Duff hasn't always had dimples in her cheeks, which does look like the case from the last pic. Apparently there's a procedure to get artificial dimples, but I haven't heard of it much. I don't know if I believe this one though because it's hard to tell in pics unless she's smiling. Duff's dimples do look more noticeable in some pics though, but who knows. Duff also has a really pretty smile, and although I don't see her smiling too often with her teeth, she has some nice ones. Since her smile is basically perfect, she may have gotten something done there which is common. If her teeth weren't always that nice, she may have had braces to make them so straight, or even gotten veneers. Although I think that Duff's face can look pretty plastic at times and almost too perfect, I can't deny that the girl looks gorgeous. She hasn't admitted or opened up about getting any work done and keeps that on the DL, so there's no way of knowing for sure. But whatever changes the star has or hasn't made to her face over the last few years seems to be working for her. Moving on to Duff's body, starting with the basics is you can probably tell by looking at her she's really petite. Standing at only 5 foot 2, she's also thin and looks like she obviously stays in shape. In the past the star opened up about struggling with an eating disorder. I feel like that can be pretty common especially in Hollywood. She told Stylecaster, I've never said this before but I had such a bad case of anorexia. I was so badly down that hole. I was not eating for days sometimes but it was because I thought I needed to be absolutely tiny to be loved. I genuinely thought I needed to be as skinny as I possibly could to be loved and appreciated and good enough. Duff went on to say that she's worked really hard to be healthy and happy. I would say that she's still really tiny anyways. Duff has said that she does exercise to stay in shape and if she has more time in the morning she would do a bigger workout than just simply stretching. She's posted pics in the gym of course so we can assume that she does make time to go pretty often. Duff has also shared a little bit of her workout prepping for Descendants 3 via Twitter, which was 20 minutes Stairmaster level 10, 20 minute bike level 8, 10 minute elliptical level 10 out of 10, 10 minutes body weight, booty work and lots of water. And that sounds like a lot of cardio. Another relevant subject seems to be Dub's boobs. Firstly there has always been speculation that she's gone implants. Looking at pics though it would seem that she has always had a nice set especially for her body type. Sometimes they look fuller but it's definitely possible with either push-ups or from simply gaining a couple of pounds. When fans have asked in the past on Twitter about them, Dub has said that it's no secret that they're C cups and also said I've had Cs since I was 14. It's just a body. I let it do its thing. So that's Dub saying there's nothing to speculate about and she's all natural. However she just posted on her Instagram recently some brawless selfies that are getting some attention. She posted them with quotes about female empowerment. So obviously there is some back and forth opinions in the comment section and people talking. I'm less concerned with whether it's polite to post a pic in a see-through shirt and more concerned about if Dub's boobs are fake or not. Honestly she convinced me that they were natural until I saw these pictures. I'll let you guys be the judge. Dub's look in general has evolved a lot since her early Disney days. Although I think she's always had an innocent girly look she's changed from more of the girl next door to super glamorous. Dub has always been blonde for the most part but she used to have more of a golden blonde look when she was younger. She's had a lighter platinum blonde color for a while now and it's become a signature of hers. I think this shade suits her the best. She also has collaborated with the popular hair extension brand Bellamy for her own line of extension. Dub has said she always uses their extensions whether it's tape bands, clip ins or other types which would explain the perfect length she has. Another one of Dub's beauty trademarks seems to be her flawless skin although she obviously looks great when she's all done up. I think she looks equally pretty without makeup and most would agree. Dub has said her secrets to nice skin are pretty simple. She hydrates a lot so drinking a ton of water and eating healthy. In terms of her routine she cleanses both in the AM and PM and moisturizes like crazy. Going makeup free is also something she does often but she said she wasn't always comfortable. Dub has told Tiger Beat magazine a few years back when they asked if she was always confident going out bare face. Definitely not. I wore a lot of makeup during school but there was also part of me that really wanted to wear makeup all the time because I felt like I wasn't beautiful underneath it. While it seems like Dub has grown up and come a long way. Looking at Dub's transformation from her Disney channel beginnings in Live in Maddie to how she is today we can see how much she's grown up. She was always cute and talented but in her early 20s now she seems to have found her signature look and style. Although Dub has an open depth about getting any cosmetic work done it seems obvious that she's had a few changes that were less than natural. That's Hollywood. I'd like to know if you guys think she's had work done or not so feel free to leave your opinions whatever they may be. Seeing as she's only 23 I'm pretty sure we will only see bigger things from Dub in the future. Whatever the girl has done with her look I think she looks flawless. So I'm gonna be reading out a few comments you guys left on our last vid. This one was from our before and after video on Misha Barton. Eve Ye said Almost better. She looks better without makeup. She has a natural stunning beauty. Her weight is normal. Metabolism changes. A lot of girls are much skinnier in their 20s. So I agree that Misha has a natural beauty and it's true about weight and metabolism changes. I'm just glad she's back on TV again. On our before and after video of Farrah Abraham and said hooker. Well and I hope you're referring to Farrah and not me because that's a little bit offensive. This one is from Angela Mansongwall on our video Bella Hadid before and after and she said don't you actually have anything to talk about other than people's faces. Well Angela that's kind of the point of these before and after videos if you haven't noticed. Alright guys and girls that wraps up this video here on before and after. If you want to talk more about Dub's transformation you can hit me up on Instagram. Let me know who else you would like me to make a before and after video on and I'll see you guys in the next video. Bye!