Okay, it looks like it's being recorded. And we're just waiting for Lauren. And Tim, do you know how to move people from attendees to panelists and then back again. Yeah. Okay. So let's see. Yeah, I can do the promotion. Right. Okay, great. All right, I will sign off. And then let me know if anything happens. I'm going to pop back on and troubleshoot. How do we get in touch with you in case that was, I just gave Maureen my phone number so she can perfect shoot me in text. Okay. Okay. Okay, bye bye. Good luck. Hello. Hi, I guess. Are we. Yeah, we are already ready for you. Dave not here yet. Is he, I guess he's coming. Dave Zomek. Let me see if he's in that and no, he's not. I won't give a couple minutes and then okay, because I think we can do, I can do my deal that I have to do. Is the new health director coming. I don't see anyone that appears to be the new health director. I was hoping we could get to meet her. Do you see anyone in the attendees. It says eight participants hold on. Oh, that includes panelists. The three attendees. We know who they are. I guess that was the question. Jeremy Barker Plotkin is attending. He's from simple gifts farm. And then the other two names are more keen and Risha has. Okay. All right, so they're not part of the people were wondering about. Okay. Is, is Risha the name that you mentioned as a new. Yeah, Risha should. I didn't, that's, that's a new board member. Okay, she's an attendee. I should promote. To a panelist. I think so. We can ask her a question. Okay. Let's see. If she's official. Is that Risha. It is. I am not official. So I, I will not join. I have to do my swearing in. And I'll. Okay. So next month I will be official, but. We'll keep you as an attendee then. I'm glad to see you and look forward to having you as an official board member. Thank you. All right. So let's go ahead and. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021. This meeting of the board of health will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to it. Access the meeting may do so by following the instruction on the board of health. Posted. Agenda via zoom. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access proceedings. As soon as it is technologically possible. After this meeting, all approved board of health minutes are posted on our website. Once they are approved by the board. I will now open this. September 14th meeting. Of the board of health. With a roll call. Remela. Couldn't hear you. Sorry. Present. Lauren. Here. Tim. Here. And we're in here. Okay. So our first. Item is to review the minutes from August 10th and make any corrections. Does anyone have any. Questions about that or. Corrections to those minutes. No. I didn't see anything that I was concerned about. So do we have a motion to. Accept the minutes. I can make a motion to accept the August minutes. Okay. And the second. Second. Okay. And the vote. Primula. Hi. Lauren. Hi. Tim. Hi. Maureen. Hi. So the minutes are accepted. And. Now we're going to go on. Is there any public comment? Anyone have their hand up or. No. I don't see it. I don't either. David. So Mac has his. Hands up. Was he here? We should. Get him on to the panelists. Hello, Dave. Thank you for coming. Good evening, everybody. Okay. I wondered Maureen. I am. I have multiple meetings tonight. And. I actually have a meeting coming up at six PM. And I wondered whether you might have room in your agenda for me to. Just update the board on it. Just a few quick things for, you know, all of five minutes. And then I will have to leave a few minutes before six. I think that would be fine. If we move on. I will have to leave a few minutes before six. I think that would be fine. If we move the director's update up. Up to this time. Well, good. Good evening, everybody. Thanks for letting me squeeze in here. Hello, Ed. I. I see it every day. So it's great to see him on a. Call here with you. A couple of quick updates. I wanted the board to be aware. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But I'm just off that. Paul has. Appointed a new member to the board of health. And I, he did that on Monday night. Let's see if I. Risha has. Is that correct. And I wanted to make sure you all knew about that. I don't. Go ahead, Maureen. We just met her. She's listening to this. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Risha hasn't been sworn in yet. So she's not an official member of the war. Right. I just wanted you to be aware and, and I'm sure she will get. Risha will get sworn in soon. I wanted to let you know that. Of course. The big news from a staff standpoint is Paul. Has appointed our new health director. And I believe that Kyle sent all of. That information to you. The town council did vote unanimously. On that appointment. I did everyone get that information from Kyle. Our new. Health director, public health director, who goes by Kiko. We'll be joining us on October 2nd. So Kiko's first. Day official day in the office will be October 2nd. I had the pleasure of being part of that search process and. I'm actually meeting with Kiko and staff in the health department next week informally. But Kiko will start officially on October 2nd. And I'm sure that I will work with our HR department. To make sure that. There are meetings set up with you individually to, to sit down with Kiko and talk about some of the work you're doing, some of the work you will be looking at in the months ahead. And I'm sure that Kiko will also join you for your October meeting. So, so that's very exciting. We will also work with Kiko on. Setting up appointments and meet and greets with department heads. With community members with human service agencies. And I'm sure many others. And I'm sure that Kiko will be working with the HR department. So it's very familiar with the region and is. Is not coming into this. You know, without quite a bit of history and understanding of the Valley. So that's really exciting. Let's see what else I am working with staff on setting up. Flu clinics. And I'm sure that Kiko will. Take that over very shortly. Thank you. Thank you. And Nancy on that. We're also waiting for the most recent, the most updated information on COVID and COVID boosters. I believe that information. You know, some of it has come out this week, but I expect more to come out next week. And we will learn from the state. Just. How they will distribute the new booster. I think most of the focus, my understanding from what I've read and talked to people about most of, most of that focus will be on the most vulnerable members of our community. Those working with Craig's doors. Homebound seniors and others who cannot get to. Kind of those other places that we, many of us will be channeled to like, you know, we're going to have a lot of, a lot of them will be on the, a lot of retail pharmacies, et cetera. So I'm sure that staff and Kiko will have more information for you in the community coming up. We're also trying to update the website. We did just lose our. Our communications director Brianna Sundred left town service last week. So we're going to be playing a little catch up here with, with some of the updated information on the web, and then we'll get back to you. I think those were the major updates. Very exciting news about a new director. I know that staff is very excited and, and the opportunities for collaboration within the bang center, within the senior center, bangs, crests, DEI and other departments with Kiko joining us is, is really going to be an exciting time. So I think I'll stop there. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much of your agenda. Cause I know you've had some ongoing. Agenda items you'd like to work on and work through. I just wondered about the level of awareness around Arbo viruses, the towns around us have all come up to a more moderate risk. Risk level. We have not. And maybe we'll get through it, but I don't know. I don't know anything about that with the pioneer valley. Mosquito control or anything like that that's going on. Yeah, I've had a little, but I honestly, I think I, I should focus on that a little bit next week. And, and I, I may even tap Kiko for a little direction on that. So I shade that. I, I. I understand that we have been kind of silent on that. And it has been something that we should focus on a little bit and at least get some information up on our website. So let me work with, with Kiko on that even before she arrives and see if I can get a little guidance on, on that. And we'll do some updating on our website and also. Kind of what messaging staff should be putting out there as well. Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's a need to put out any urgent information right now, but we, it needs to be kind of ready to go. I guess if, if things change in the next few weeks. Yes, no, I appreciate that reminder. It has been something on, on my list of to-dos. So I appreciate that. So very excited to welcome a new, new staff member and a new leader and someone who I think is going to be very innovative and creative and, and I think we'll all enjoy working with Kiko. So thank you. Thank you, Dave for getting, giving us these updates. Does anyone else have any questions for David? All right, I guess we will move on then to. Our old business and starting with simple gifts. And, and I know we just got, I didn't even see it until I got on the website on the zoom, because I had been looking at the things all afternoon. I decided to take a break and then, so there's a couple of new documents that came in and a report from Ed and a little sketch of the. The actual facilities that, that simple gifts farm. So maybe you could just summarize that a little bit for us. Sure. I, what I sent over was just my notes essentially in letter form. And I did have a chance to review the notes with Jeremy and made a few modifications. So we were more in sort of an agreement about what I was going to put down. We had a, I would certainly characterize as a friendly discussion of the situation that brought me up to speed and it even. Took me back to when the farm was starting and where the health department was at that time, because in 2017. When the proposal was made to build what we see today as simple gifts farm store. We were in a transition point where the health inspectors were transferring over to sit in the inspections department. And I think within a month or two of that transfer, the full-time health inspector left for another position. And I was a shared inspector with. North Hampton. Subsequently became a full-time inspector a few months later, but shared with the building department. So, you know, it came, the proposal came at a time when, you know, to be frank, it didn't get the review that we should have. And since then. The building department and health inspectors are much more coordinated. About. Proposals. Especially one, I think. That involved new construction ground up construction. We would be involved much earlier. And. There was, I think, a basic misunderstanding about. The type of. Operation that would be going in. And some. Difference in the way that. Perhaps health and building. Looked at. A facility and the licensing for a facility. A farm stand has, and I think. Susan may have gone over this earlier in notes, but a farm stand is basically a. A farm stand. And allowed business that's associated with a farm that's generally sells. Whole uncut vegetables and fruits. And the proposal was for more than that, but. You know, this was not. Something that, that we picked up on. So we're, we're in a position today based partly. You know, that we created ourselves. And at the time that the store did open with many more products with refrigeration units. And so. A compromise was worked out. That continues to today and that's to. Have a. There is a proper. Handwashing station available in a barn. It's about a 300 foot walk from the building to the barn. That barn houses. A leafy greens production. Area where greens from the farmer. Double or triple washed, I imagine. And that's where it's located. And that's where it's located. And that's where it's located for packaging for retail sale. And there's a full fledged permanently installed. Well stocked. With hot water. Hand wash station at that point. But there also was agreed to put a. Temporary or portable hand wash station and right in front of the storage is outside the door. And. Jeremy and I walked up to. The. Permanent hand wash station. And the staff each morning sets up a cambro insulated beverage container or beverage dispenser. Supplements the water. In the cambro with hot water from an electric tea kettle inside, which is creative and effective. The water is obtained from actually a yard hydrant. Which is installed just 10 feet or so out the front door. Of the store. So the water is convenient. I did talk with the plumbing and gas inspector for the town. And he said his only question. And he would check into it. And Jeremy. In review told me that. To his knowledge, the. The installation of that yard hydrant did include a. Backflow preventer. Which would isolate the water from contamination. So the pieces as they are there. And I would say that. The. Work. The store itself. Is built on a slab. It's. Would not be easy either to fit. A hand wash station or a curb sink, janitor, sink utility, sink, whatever. Form that might take the. The sink that you would use for larger cleaning projects. At present, it would not be easy to fit it in. Or to put it in. Jeremy pointed out. That the sewer connection, especially. Is going to be expensive. But it was always part of his vision for where the store would be heading. Sooner or later. And one thing that we did talk about. And agreed was that with. Our recognizing. The need for these two sinks. That in the future. There may be opportunities for a farm improvement grant or similar item. Simplice did get one a few years ago that. Brought a new freestanding exterior. Walk-in cooler. To the store. And that. Kind of proposal that incorporated. In the future. So what we can do in inspections is. Flag the property so that any time. This was not available to us in 2017. Everybody's had to kind of keep in mind that. Next time simple gifts does something. Let's try and get those sinks. We can literally flag. The permitting software to remind us that. We can. See if we can incorporate that with the source. With the farms corporation. Into future proposals. Certainly if any expansion of the store happened. It would happen then, but you know, even a project like the outdoor cooler or something. You know, else could be a. A time when that could happen. So my finding is that at present the compromise solution. Should continue that it would be a considerable financial hardship for them. The farm. At this time. And it's present. Business date. You know, to take on a project that. You know, would be tens of thousands of dollars. That we've had no complaints. We've had no. You know, noted issues. You know, so. And the present system when, when we check it, it's, it's being. Maintained. And I think that that's. Where we should stay for the moment. And I did include a map, one of the documents that gives you relative. You know, distances, the, the farm store on North pleasant street, the portable hand wash station is just steps. Five steps outside the front door. You have to go around the corner. And the yard hydrant is just a few steps beyond that. The barn is. A bit of a hike. But, you know, practically speaking. In most cases. They're set with those two. The yard hydrant and the portable station in front. Thank you. Yeah, I've been thinking about this over the months and. And I, I kind of was thinking about the operation. The, in general, it has these time temperature. Control for safety. Foods and that's kind of what gets it into being a food operation. But the only way they're being handled is like, like a store clerk putting them on the shelf. And someone, you know, checking the person out. They're not being opened or touched or. Processed or anything else. So it. It struck me that the. The risks involved were small. And, you know, I was even wondering, if a variance would be required, but it seems like. You have figured that out. Well, I would say that, you know, sort of staff are handling. Fresh produce. And they're, you know, hand washing should be something where they start the day. And they, you know, Wash whenever appropriate. During the day. And then, you know, for cleaning operations, they can mop the store. You know, disposal is. Basically to disperse it on the ground. But I don't think that they're using anything that causes concern about disposal. I mean, it's, it's a very mild form of gray water. Jeremy is in attendance. If you have questions or, you know, if he has some comments about operations. I'm sure he'll speak to those. I don't see any. The answer is, but. I think if this agreement. Okay. So hi, thanks. Thanks, Ed, for that summary. I don't. I think you summarized that. I don't see any. I just thought it was appropriate that I say something. But yeah, you've summarized the situation pretty well. I guess the one little thing that I would add was that. There is a definite, a difference in definition between. There's a zoning definition of farm stand that we used. When we made our application. Which is. Okay. So hi, thanks. Thanks Ed for that summary. I don't. I think you summarize the situation pretty well. Just thought it was appropriate that I say something. I think that's a good point. I think the definition of farm stand. Which is. 25% of the produce has to be produced on, on site in order to be. Considered a farm stand and that. Gives. Gives the permitting some. Well, I guess, I guess it allows us to build a, build a structure where the zoning might not otherwise allow it. And that's always been the definition of farm stand that that we've used. So I think that's another definition from the health code. Really. You know, I only heard about it when Susan sent that paperwork around with the, you know, with, with that. Legislation or that, that, that regulation. So. That, that may be part of where that initial confusion came from. But it seems like we've worked things out to go ahead as is for.  Come up. So. I'm happy to hear that. We support our local. Support our local farmers and have nice fresh organic food in North Amherst. So. Well, thank, thank you guys. Yeah. Okay. So we'll, we'll continue and monitor and maintain. And I will put a note in our inspections. File for the property to bring it up as a discussion point at any point that improvements are proposed. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else have any questions or. Comments. So. Just have a quick question. I know we are going, going with as. Whatever we are doing, you know, we are not going to add more. Requirements. So I'm just curious if there is any. Temporary ways of.  Mop or water. So is there something being used or we don't have any. Cleaning. No, cleaning is definitely done. It's done you rather than. Say filling a mop. Bucket in a curb sink or janitor's sink, you know, by running hot water in from the tap. Cool water. From the yard hydrant has to be heated in a kettle. And then the water is added to the mop water to assist, you know, to raise that to a temperature with cleanings more effective. And the same with the hand washing, but the water available in the art hydrant is portable water. And it's, it's close at hand. It's just, it's as close as many custodial closets would be in a facility. It does involve going outside. But. I don't think farmers mind. We were looking when Susan and raised these points, she was looking. To. Raise the, the installed. You know, facilities to the point. That would have been best. In the beginning. So it's, you know, after discussion and after reviewing the situation, it's not an easy time to do that. It would be a hardship. Okay. I just had a question. Of the installing a permanent thing would require plumbing, which is what. Raises the costs. But are there like. Things that. Wouldn't require. Like the heating of the water that would. Do that automatically. Or I just have that question. Not to. I mean, this could be, you know, if and when it happens, this could be a place where a tankless hot water heater. Would just heat water as it was needed. The problem with those in a hand wash sink is that. And most of us have experienced this in a home. You'll have to wait for the water. And. When you're busy, it's hard to wait. And you have to wait for the water to get back up. And you have to get back to the person who's waiting at the counter. Or whatever. So, but, but that could be. Simpler than putting in a big hot water tank or some size of hot water tank appropriate for the uses. The water line that comes to the yard. Hi, Brent could be extended into the store. not have a basement, so you would come under the slab, drill through this lab and bring the piping up into the store. This, if there's an expansion of the store, that would be the ideal time to plant it in because you install those pipes, you cast your slab over those pipes and then you continue them to the finished fixtures inside. You know, a comprehensive plan might well include a bathroom for workers. You know, whatever kind of sinks the business plan might call for. If you were processing vegetables there, you might want prep sinks. If you're doing anything that involves cleaning various kitchen wares, large and small pots or whatever, you would be looking at a three-base sink, you know, some, you know, from small to large, you would size something for the business plan. So right now, you know, cost of plumbing would be considerable because it's not just bringing the water in, it's getting rid of the wastewater. And I was, I was overlooking that for a minute, but it would require a connection to the sewer out on North Pleasant Street. So the water's closed already, but the sewer connection is not there. Yeah, we also would probably want to build a little insulated outbuilding with its own slab in order to put a hand wash sink because there's really not space in the, in the store as it exists now for to put a hand washing sink in there. And that would help us get around the problem of drilling through the slab, as if we, but still, so it would be a whole, a whole little insulated outbuilding we'd have to build in order to, in order to put a sink in. It wouldn't, it wouldn't just be putting in a sink, but if we're building something else, you know, at that point, it's, you know, a smaller, a smaller part of the project to just put in a sink when we've already got, we're already putting plumbing in. I think the access to water is there in the bond. And I think that's reasonable. If there is any need, I think we could use that one for cleaning or water washing us. Okay, so we'll just hope things continue along the way they have been without incident problems and, and hope that if the farm gets some has some new plans, they'll, they'll get to update, upgrade those facilities with some guidance from both the building and the health, health department and health inspectors. So thank you all. Okay, thank you. So our next item on the agenda is back to the toxic chemical regulations. And I have to say I appreciated some of the things that Lauren sent my way and looked at them. I didn't see anyone send any regulations from other towns or anything though that they found. I wondered if people had looked at that and had any thoughts about where we're we're going with this. I know Kyle mentioned and that Nancy Schroeder compiled some sort of a list of resources. And there were a couple of them which are more on pesticide regulations from Marblehead and, and even in Northampton, I think. So these are pesticide regulations related to public use.  If not, very occasionally they had some use in poison IVs and stuff like that. So, so those are the, you know, resources which are available. And I think Nancy was compiling that and, and then there is a few others on OSHA.gov. There's a thing Kyle sent me on his way on this way and then also in CDC. So one approach is to actually augment the compilation which I have in the, in that report. It's not a report. It's the revision of the potential bylaw into a guideline and, and a type of a resource compilation. We could add all these sources that people can actually use to mitigate or minimize some of the uses, you know. Yeah, I guess I looked at Northampton does have a regulation limiting glyphosate or roundup. But again, I think it's used by the city itself. And when I think before either Premal or Lauren was on the board, Tim and I are old hands at this now. We did have several presentations about that and looked into it and then discuss it with the director of public works and they looked to see how much of the substance that they had used. And I think it was a little bit every couple of years only directed at really resistant patches of poison ivy that were the kids could get into maybe like, you know, the edges of broth park or something where they were kind of a significant risk to, you know, to people. And, and it was extremely limited. And it's seen that regulation for something like that would have exceptions for urgent actions and was no point in making that kind of regulation. I think we also looked a little bit into the mosquito control on our own. It was before joining the Pioneer Valley mosquito control, whatever it is. And even if we as a town sort of said, no, we're not going to to spray insecticides or larvasides or whatever. But, you know, if the there was a public health emergency, the state would do it anyway. And I think, and the state doesn't do it unless there's a public health emergency. So it just seemed like that was a regulation that wasn't needed. And so, so, so it's not like we've not looked at some of these things, but it has hasn't. It's been hard for me to find things that we had have a list of things that would be not allowed, that was reasonable, and a way of monitoring it and regulating it. And, and so I haven't seen that kind of thing anywhere. But I could be naive. I think, I think the idea of, you know, where the where that health department wants to go with this, I don't know, we're going to have a new director. But if a program to educate people about what they buy and what they, what they put on their lawn and what they put on their bodies and, and feed their children and whatever, you know, could be an important aspect of the public health. But I don't know that the regulation is the way to get at that. So I am happy to think about it in other ways. So the Northampton report is not a, it's not a regulation, it's a report. It's a pesticide report which was primarily sent to the Northampton City Council. And I don't think that's a regulation. The, I think one of the things we have to consider is, so here we're focusing on any type of incentives for not using pesticides or toxic chemicals in public spaces. And, and things we know is primarily, I think in previous meetings we had procurement department come in. We also had previously about glyphosate discussions that was maybe more than two years ago. All these were essentially saying they were very cautious avoiding any type of toxic chemicals and regulating them when there is no issue, I think that is, you know, it becomes redundant in terms of developing it. But in a larger, in a longer viewpoint is primarily developing information is actually a really good policy in terms of environmental mitigation. So what I mean by policy is education as a policy, you know, providing some sort of accessible information. And also, the information should have some sort of a potential toxic impacts, and what type of approaches people can take in terms of mitigating use of them or alternate substances which can actually avoid use of those toxic chemicals. So if I mean that is a really long term perspective of empowering our communities in terms of this toxic chemical exposure, rather than regulating and creating bylaws and which really there is no, I think the public health, we don't have any monitoring. We can't monitor. We don't have, you know, ways of going and testing everywhere.  Yeah, I get one of the things Lauren sent that will link to what Massachusetts is doing on water supplies. And you probably know more about this Tim than I do. But they are now measuring like six different chemicals of the PFAS group. And they had results from each town for from public water supply. And I guess currently the emmer's public water supply seems to be testing predominantly OK, there are few positive low positive tests scattered in the in the in the results, but it really is not a consistent pattern. But it's kind of good to know that those are being tested and monitored. I think private wells often are bigger risk for for some of these things. And it depends on where you live and what chemical company you might live next door to or or airport or what the what the environment, you know, your the local environment is. Yeah, so for public water supplies, it's required by law that they provide information on water quality and also mitigate any type of source pollution in the contamination. So and PFAS and P4 PFOA or some sort of an emerging area of discussion, you know, they're very little bit more complex because they are already everywhere, air, soil, water everywhere. And then it has been used for maybe many, many years and the discussion is coming at the federal level and the state level on how to handle it. And now I think EPA is recognizing those as very critical and developing some sort of a regulations at a much more federal level. And that has a much more, I would say, teeth in terms of what type of approaches and the EPA is also focusing on education as a very key component, but also a lot of research, science behind it, just understanding the toxicity and what what it could be alternate alternate type of materials and also regulation at more on the production level. So if it's going to be a fire retard and retarding chemical, how to mitigate it in the production level or in the use levels. So there's much more larger effort, which is being planned at the federal level and the state level. And I think, you know, I mean, they're good, you know, we are in a good direction moving forward. They have a lot of information and resources and science behind it coming up. There's a lot of investment at UMass Water Center in research towards PFAS. So those are very good news, you know, happening in that area. I just want to add, it seems like there's the more you look up information, the more it does get complex. But I saw an article that was talking about a new water treatment plant in Littleton, Massachusetts and how much it costs to put in a new water filtration plan for PFAS and PFAS is a toxic. I didn't know it was a toxic chemical, what is considered a toxic chemical. So if we are looking at toxic chemicals and including PFAS, I think we need to continue the conversation because there's also the Mass Department of Environmental Protection, which, you know, focuses on our state and PFAS, they, from my reading, they are researching the six PFAS chemicals because of their links to cancer. It said elevated cholesterol and changes in immunity. And so I think it's important to really like instead of us like trying to say that it's their state and federal regulations, I don't quite understand that argument because where we can still do something at the local level, which I think we should be focusing on. And I, in the article about Littleton, Massachusetts, it quoted a water industry advocate, Jennifer Peterson, that said that drinking water only accounts for 20 percent of the public's exposure to PFAS and the other 80 percent is in our food, our packaging, consumer products, which I assume would be like the skincare products or the cleaning products. And so I'm still not sure like what the board is really trying to say, or what, Tim, what, what, what the, what your, what's your argument? I don't understand what your argument is because, oh, yeah, I definitely think that there is. We need to narrow down what we are actually trying to either regulate or advise because they're, from my understanding, there is from the EPA, from the Mass Department of Environmental Protection, there are health advisories. And if we just want to focus on PFAS because the other chemicals we don't really use or cannot regulate, then that would be fine. I just think that that we need to understand what we're trying to focus on. So let me clarify, you know, we are not saying they are not important. So if you look at the document we wrote, it's actually highlighting the toxicity. It's highlighting everything. It's a, it's a, it's a recognition of the board that these are all extremely important. And our approach is actually saying we need to actually take this information to the communities as an educational awareness. And that's the argument here, you know. So we have a list of all those contaminants. I don't know if you remember from the previous write-up, we had pesticides, we had PFAS, and we also documented from literature how they are very important in understanding public health and everything. So that is there. I think I wanted to actually bring that one to the public as a, as a, as a very important recognition by the board and request in terms of having here are all the alternatives. Here are all the approaches you can actually mitigate that in terms of exposure, usage and also improve their own public health at a much more individual level in terms of empowering themselves and what they use and what they don't use. And that's what I think I'm, I'm thinking our, our information we are actually providing to our community is having all this information which Lauren mentioned. But in addition to that, what are some of the ways we could actually mitigate? I don't know if I'm clarifying that. I guess what I have trouble with is that there are a lot of things that have these chemicals in it. Some of them we know about and some of them we don't.  It was, it was possible to say, OK, stores can't use single-use plastic bags because they're an environmental problem. And you could use paper bags or bring your own bags. You hadn't and you could regulate that. But if you couldn't really tell a store not to sell anything in a plastic that's in a plastic bottle or that's wrapped in plastic or, you know, I just don't know how, how we can put a regulation around all this information or, you know, if, if you'd have a list of things that the down shouldn't buy X, Y or Z or in this kind of package. You know, first of all, we don't know all the ones that are a problem and the ones that aren't. And then also it's just, it's just not. I don't know, just too much. And I think it has to come somehow in a different way. I don't, I, I just don't see how we could have a regulation that says this, we can't use PFAS. That would exclude like so many products and not even because the product has it in it, but maybe the packaging has it in it. And, and we don't even actually know what's in what and the fact that although they're measuring these six more prominent PFAS, PFAS kind of chemicals, there are thousands of them. And some of them may not be as bad. Some of them might be just as bad. So it's like Tim said, it's kind of we're at the beginning of, of figuring this out. And it's too, too unwieldy to regulate at a town level. I mean, the government could say you can't use these things in manufacturing, you know, because that's where all this stuff starts. But we can't really do that. Um, so that that's where I got stuck. I was, I've been around and around on this and I'm trying to figure out what's doable. And I just couldn't figure out anything that is doable by a town regulation. Right. But before I mean, the last meeting, we discussed regulation versus guidelines versus public education.  But like, for example, when you go into Walmart, they don't even have bags anymore.  So I, I just, I'm not really sure what, what a public education would do if, again, if this is about choice, we don't, we, we can choose to buy products however you want. But it's, it involves yes, education, but also from my understanding, the different agencies are trying to put regulation and advisory. So it's, to me, it just seems that we should have more of a focus than just saying that these other high levels of government are going to do whatever they're doing. And then we follow suit. I, I just, to me, I just don't see what the point of of that thinking is, I, I just, well, I would welcome, you know, something that if, if you could find or come up with something that would, would work as a regulation and that would be practical, you know, enforceable, you know, I haven't had the imagination to figure something like that out. And I, I'm not against the idea of regulations, but I, I'm not sure how to do it. I, I kind of looked, California is kind of ahead of the curve on testing products and they're, and looking at products and what's in them, and I didn't know if they might have a list of things that are, you know, I don't know, I just wonder, I wondered if delving into some of the things their environmental protection agency is doing might be helpful as a, you know, to point out things that might be, could be regulated, you know, be regulated, I don't know. I think there are a lot of things that are, if you buy something that says on it, this is like, no, California says this is a toxic product or something, you know, I don't know if you've noticed that in, and, and should be, I don't even remember what it, what it says, but it does say that that it's been identified as some somehow problematic by the state of California. But that's a state, state regulations. It is, it is. Yeah. I think we have to recognize that it's a, the markets are like, like we don't produce everything we consume. If that is so, we can actually have some good regulation on who is producing what and everything, but that's not the case in much of the markets. Products are coming from elsewhere, you know, not from Amherst. So in those cases, empowering the consumers on being informed and what they, what their choices are, and I think that's the best way to do that. And, but also, there's so many agencies exclusively dedicated to this, this work. For example, probably we talked with procurement software in Massachusetts. So they do like sustainable procurement. And that's our actually focus and they help a lot of towns in, in, in designing and identifying procurements which are much more sustainable with, with minimal impacts. And my only question is what is not covered by them, which we will focus on. If we can identify that, then I think it'll be a, it'll be an useful time for us to actually develop some sort of a regulations, but I, I still haven't seen things which are not covered by other agencies, which the Board of Health has to step in. I think another, just, just to say, you know, PFAS is just only one problem. There are nanomaterials coming up. Microplastics, everywhere, you know, if you look at microplastics, how much we consume plastics, these are very small particles, these are microplastics in personal care products, all the pharmaceuticals we have. So these emerging contaminants are actually a huge challenge and on how we handle it. So in my, I mean, you know, it's coming from very variety of sources on what we purchase and everything. We are not only focusing on one type of a commodity when we go to mall or whatever thing. So when we buy makeup products, medicines, all this ent, enters into water bodies, these are the emerging contaminants. And I think informing the public and also having some sort of informed decision making into, you know, in, I think it's, it's a right way as a policy because it empowers student, empowers families and communities in terms of their choices of purchases and what they are exposing themselves to. But there is a lot of efforts, mechanisms in terms of trying to handle this at different scales. One thing we can do, you know, we're going to have a new health director soon. It might be nice to have a conversation with her about, about her thoughts about what the department can do. You know, you know, from my understanding, the department does more programming and education and publicizing and we do more regulating and it's kind of frustrating sometimes. But, but we do have to somewhat different, different roles in this and helping to improve the public health. But education could also be a sort of regulation. I'm just saying, you know, we have to produce these types of ratios, having some sort of every before smoking, we provide some sort of a labels or information brochures. So we had to use that money during the, even during the pandemic we had been informing. So we had a delegates, a contingent of delegates going and teaching and that's, we can say that is, that's even a, we could make it into a regulation, you know, if you want to, saying we need this type of educational programming as a part of our budget. I was just going to add, because water is so essential, where, I kind of lost what I sent you, it was both in Amherst, where would we get the information for, you said they were testing the water in Amherst, would Mr. Smith have that information or is there a website or like how to we even find out what the water quality is for Amherst? Can I answer that? Yeah. So every household in Amherst, they get monthly water quality reports. It's very detailed. So it usually comes in as an attachment to the bill or receipts, you know, so everyone primarily are informed and but it's extremely detailed. Every type of a specific contaminant and what is their goal, what are the limits, if there is any exceedance of those limits, what type of response the public works department is doing in terms of just like in Springfield, we had a water advisory, that means for boiling, because it might be some sort of accidents for E. coli or any type of contaminants of concern. So that's a detailed report monthly report coming in. I believe that that report is also available as a PDF on the public works department website. Anyone can access it. And I did see the PFAS results on the Massachusetts website and it listed by a town and it actually listed it by each different water source in the town like the wells and the reservoir and and and over time it showed all of that data. And I don't remember if that was limited to PFAS or if it was more, but I found that in a general report. But what those data is out there, I think between the town site and the state, it's that information is available. And that's the information I'm thinking. We could provide to our town, you know, so because right now we have to search in a state website or anything, but if you can have everything handy on what what what those contaminants status are and what what what type of options people have. And I think that's what I mean by a resource page, you know, so having a very interactive type of a place where they can actually see what's happening in the town also. Mm hmm. I would support. I like the idea of regulating some type of educational program along with the resource page. I think that's a good idea. Yeah, I don't know that we can do that. I don't know if we can mandate the health department to do that kind of things, to be honest, but that's something to look into. We could make a suggestion to the new director. Yeah, saying that there might be some sort of a brochures we could develop using some sort of a help from, I don't know where the help from comes from students or whatever it is and then distribute them in some public places for people can actually read them and see what's happening to their waters, soils and different contaminants. And but that's someone possibility. I think the way people get information is so tricky that we need a little something sophisticated to kind of. Get it out where people can actually use it. Having spent many years trying to get information out to college students. It that they actually pay attention to and now we have like and that's just one narrow segment of a population versus like a whole town where where there's a very diverse group of age wise and otherwise that to kind of make. That's a sophisticated thing is to get information to people, but. I think you should try. And so we need to increase the budget for our public health department. Having some dedicated staff doing that in education and type of things. Well, yeah, the way. You know, to think about how the different departments work together in town, too, and kind of disseminating things is another way to look. But that would be education, right? Not not regulation. And I'm I'm sort of wondering, you know, if that is beyond the scope of the board, you know, making regulations, unless unless there's some kind of public health issue. Excuse me, that requires us to or something is brought to us. I'm just, you know, I'm a little confused because the board was asked to. Comment on the use of PFAS and, you know, but that's that's just it. You're not we're not regulating anything, right? I mean, I get what Tim says that there's still a lot of information and. You know, people are at they're looking at it at the state level, but I'm just wondering sort of. I guess the bottom line is I'm wondering where we're going with this. Well, you fast is a toxin. So if we're discussing toxin, toxic regulation, but then we are thinking of reducing that conversation to a guideline, then PFAS should be included in the conversation and we should have a focus on how we are limited limiting PFAS in the public consumption and, you know, helping to educate the public. That is what I would think. Yeah, no, I agree with you. I'm just saying that's education, though. That's not regulation. Yes, we already we already said that we would not be able to necessarily regulate, but whatever, if we need to go back to what the actual regulation was a toxic toxic, because there was a toxic regulation that we look that was on the Amherst books that we were supposed to revise or update. And if PFAS is a toxin and there's other other toxins that may be unknown or, as you said, might be upcoming, then I think we should get some more expertise or more research or something to understand where we want to target our education or target the guidelines for for helping, you know, the town residents to to make more informed decisions, whether it's, you know, how they consume, you know, products or byproducts or, you know, be more aware of what is in the actual water because that that is still a concern to me. And I do have neighbors who have recently, you know, been diagnosed with cancer.  Mm hmm. Yeah. I think one of the things that came up about the regulation was that it was there on the books for 20 years, but there was no kind of enforcement or. People didn't know what to do with it, basically. It the only thing it did was that people we didn't buy bleached paper. I think that was switch that was made. And that was all so it it kind of pointed out the the difficulty with us, I think. So I think the I agree that the old one was started with that acid bleaching of paper, you know. And how do we address it? And then they started to write a regulation, but it was not used in any way for almost 20 years. Because there's no enforcement. There's no teeth to it. And but I think following up on Pramila's question is we are not educators. But for example, when we had pandemic, we put a lot of information on the website. And that information provision is a very key element for our for Public Health Department. And for example, if if anyone in the community can can see, you know, what's going on in the community. And I think they should easily access information on what should I do with PFAS coming in or what should I do with any type of a round up or any any. So that information is some sort of a missing in the Public Health Department. But that's what I'm saying. And if if there is any place where people can go and then look at what happened to PFAS studies in Massachusetts, what are the results and they can actually get, but also resources on what they can do. And I think that's very empowering in terms of having those types of a compiled information in one place. Yeah, there are some simple things that people can do that will won't eliminate these things, but will help reduce them in their lives in terms of what a pan they cook in or what they drink out of. Do they eat stuff in the microwave and plastic or, you know, or that they're just things that in your everyday life might help reduce things a little bit and maybe what kind of products you buy, you know, like with especially cosmetics and and some of those things that are are there are some that are better than others than in terms of fewer issues with toxic chemicals. So so so I think it is it is something we can work with the health department to promote. So I think that the story that never ends. But I think we can try to work, you know, speak with our new health director and see where we go from here. And we any other things before we go to the next topic? I think the next step is Kyland and I think the staff members in the health department, they are actually Nancy Schroeder, they are actually working on compilation so they can continue. But I think when the new director comes in, I think we can reevaluate and see, you know, how we can move forward. So OK. And is there anyone we could invite to that would know more about this? Or that we could invite to talk to the board? Talk to us about it. I would say I don't know of a person who fits that description. You mean from who will what type of expertise are you thinking? Um, well, we keep questioning. Is there other towns that are doing some type of toxic regulation? What type of toxins? How do we regulate those toxins? What, you know, is there someone? That I could try reaching out to the Massachusetts Association of Health Boards to see if they have any anything to say that they probably have an overview of of they help with regulations. And so I will do that. All right, to them. So to be continued. So our next old business item is the Body Art Establishment Regulation. It turns out it's a little more complicated to set up a hearing and Kyle informed me that that's in the works, but it won't be until November. You have to have to put it in in the newspaper and publicize it. And just all these steps that need to happen. So that will be in the November meeting at the beginning of the November meeting. I don't know if we want it. I think we can wait. You know, we'll have to we I think we I put the date in and starting the regulation as November 1st. I think once we have the hearing, we can then set a date for if we pass it, when it would go into effect. And also at that time, maybe set those fees. I wrote to Steven McCarthy. I forget if that's his right name, who is in licensing to ask about if there are any guidelines regarding fee setting, because I think because Jennifer Brown had mentioned his name to me, but haven't I did that a couple of days ago, I haven't yet heard back. I think we could just wing it, you know, you know, with basically Tim's idea for the monthly one is like approximately one 12th or around there. And and just the the apprentice one is a lower value than the full full one. But if we get some more information, we can use that as we do that. Any other comments or concerns about body art? We could we could actually vote on the same day after we have a public hearing, right? So I think we could even if you want to move forward quickly, you know, we can do that. Yeah, maybe in the November, November meeting or October meeting. If if we have a public hearing at the end of that, we could actually the vote can vote on that, you know. So yeah, I think we can be ready to vote on. I'd like to be ready to on that as soon as we have the hearing, unless something comes up that we need to make some changes. Based on the hearing. All right. And the last the last item is the Board of Health Chair. It's also continuing discussion. Basically, it was just me, Lauren and Tim last month. So we didn't really decide anything. You know, I think Tim had brought a point that suggested that I'll get back to I'll start over. We're discussing whether to have a chairperson or a co have a co chairs. And I think Tim made a point that it's probably better for communication to have just a chairperson. And that person works with the director to come up with the agenda for the next meeting primarily. And then runs that in runs that meeting. The in what's involved in setting up the agenda is around two weeks before the meeting. The I've been talking with Kyle as a as a representative of the Health Department to say, you know, if there are any topics that have come up from the Health Department and and I have looked at the previous minutes and going back also to pre prior months even to see if there were any loose ends. And to come up with items for the that meeting. About again, that was about two weeks before the the next meeting and then that gets finalized about one week before and is published. And he reaches out to add the inspectors and and to see if there are items that are coming from that direction. And then a few days before the meeting, he reaches out to the inspectors again to come up with any additions to the meeting. So it's not that complicated. And my sense is anyone who wants to bring forward a member of the board, a topic can bring that to the chair and get it on, you know, on the on the agenda. I mean, just try to balance it. So it's not, you know, an agenda that's 10 miles long, but but, you know, something that things that we can do progressively. So. My thought was, and I like comments on this, is that we might want to vote on whether we have a chairperson or co-chairs first and then vote on. On the actual person who will be person or people who will be the chair or co-chairs. Is that process? How is that process? Yeah, I think that'll be a good, good strategy to actually vote on those two stages. But I would, I would wait till the new director comes in, you know, next. I think the director is going to start next month. Yes. So and then we'll be having new board members. One more board. I thought we'd have everybody this month, honestly. Yeah.  So I will continue as the acting chairperson. Yes. But I have to say, I think I have to tag someone else to do next month meeting because I'm going to be, I'll, I'm going to be in Portugal for several weeks coming up when that process of setting up the agenda is happening. I will probably actually be here for the meeting, but someone, if someone else could step forward to be the acting chair, that would be great. So this will be October, what date? Like, is it like 11th? October 12th, it's October 12th. Can I, I just want to peddle back and say I listened to the recording of the meeting that I didn't attend last month. And I agree that it makes sense to do a chair and a vice chair just for ease of communication and clarity. Rotating a chairperson does not seem to me to be optimal. It just paves the way for confusion, I think. So, you know, that's, that's all I want to say about that. Yeah. I guess the question is, do we need the vice chair actually or co-chair? Or not. That, that was also a question. Who was the, was there a vice chair or co-chair where Nancy was the chair? No. Okay. No, that would be an additional person. So it's something. You know, I guess because I brought up this issue that I wasn't clear, I wanted to make it through the whole year and it's going to be a tricky period of time for me. That came up. As I've gone along and then as Tim kind of was made a convincing argument that it might be better to just keep it as one person and then pass it off when it needs to be passed off. So, I think that's the question that I'm going to go through. Which isn't maybe as often as I anticipated. But think about that. So for next month, if you want me to, you know, just. Help you and I on your, during your absence, I could do that. Okay. So that's what I'm, I'm thinking, you know, so you, you can actually, if the chair is actually going away somewhere and they need someone from the board to actually step in. You can send out a general email and see someone who is volunteering can step in. So, right. This one, I know in advance, so I thought I'd bring it up here. And what I would do then is have Kyle get in, or I don't know who it'll be Kyle or the new director get in touch with you, Tim, if you're willing to do that. Sure. And we won't, we will not be voting next. Next month is right. For the, whether we want to do a chair or a co chair or something and who will be the chair, because you won't be there. No, I will be, I think I'll be. Oh, you'll be in there until the October 7th or 8th. And then back, but there's that window of time where this gets set. It's more of that piece. I will be there. I think I'm, I won't be in Amherst, but I'll be in the, in. In this time zone. Sounds good. I was going to ask, can someone from the health department be. Run the meeting. Or be a vice chair. I think that's up to the board, honestly. I mean, I think the board is responsible for that. No, well, the, well, the new health director, they will be at the meetings. Yes. Jennifer. And it's possible for them to be a vice chair. I don't think so. Cause they're not a member of the board. They're an employee of the health department. Yeah. But it's actually the, the whoever's on the health, the board works with the health department to set the agenda. There's a, there's a conversation or email back and forth. About, about those things. So. All right. And any other. Questions about that or anything else. We have to appreciate him for being the co-host of and hosting, be doing the technical aspect of this meeting tonight. Cause Kyle had a conflict. And. I didn't want to try to do that. I feel like nothing came up, but no technical difficulties. But if they did, I would totally be flustered. So I appreciate the fact that. He took that role. And so do we have a motion to adjourn the meeting? I can make a motion to adjourn. Our meeting. And I'll second. I'll second. Yeah. I'm going to vote. Okay. Yes. Yes. And. Lauren. Yeah. And Tim. Hi. Maureen. Hi. And our next meeting is October 12th. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. All right. Good night. Good night.


I'm Marcia Joyner and we are Navigating the Journey. Navigating the Journey is dedicated to exploring the options and choices for the end of life care and to assist people to talk about their wishes. It's time to transform our culture so we shift from not talking about dying to talking about it. It is time to share the way we want to live our lives at the end of our lives and to communicate about the kind of care we want and don't want. We believe that that place is to begin here and now and not in the intensive care unit. So together we explore the various paths to life ending and together we can make those difficult conversations easier. Together we can make sure our own wishes and those of our loved ones are expressed and respect. So if you're ready we ask you to navigate the journey. Today we have a young member, I think he's the youngest member of the legislature and one of the newest. He is also and everybody knows I'm a political junkie and I probably never said this before but he's also a hero. He's a cancer survivor and a coach and his kid said in writing that he was their hero and if his kids say teenagers say someone is a hero that is just the best thing and for a politician that's gold. No I'm not on his campaign staff but I do want you to meet Representative Chris Todd from the Big Island and he is the newest, no second newest. Yeah with the new appointment of Mr. Learmon. When Cliff Suzy died last year, I guess it was no 16, the year changed, he was appointed by the governor to take his place and I can't imagine that there was a better candidate. When your own community says this is a hero, I mean what choice do we have but to have a politician which has become a dirty word to be felt like that by their community. So welcome Chris. Thank you for having me here.  Great, well I'm Chris Todd and I like to describe myself as the new guy and prior to being appointed, I was born and raised in Hilo, went to public schools, I'm a third generation graduate of Hilo High School and my degree at UH Hilo is in economics and political science and pretty much the day after graduation I went to work actually at a Suizan fish market which is a very old kind of institution in Hilo and eventually ended up managing their operations on the retail side where we made the poke and dry fish and all that stuff. The big New Year's Eve. Yes. So even though I kind of grew up in politics because my mom was on the county council, still that transition from the fish market and I was working for a paper product distributor to the legislature is pretty substantial. Wow. So you've lived most of your life and not all of it on the big island? Yeah, pretty much the only time I've been out of state other than on quick trips. I was in Las Vegas for four or five months for a semester of college and then ran right there. Oh, that's the 51st state. We don't count. Yeah, we don't count. Yeah. So what made you decide that you wanted to take Cliff Suzy's place? So it's kind of a strange story. I think what happened for me personally is I was hesitant even though I always felt that calling in a sense, but the presidential election and Donald Trump and that whole thing, it really, really bothered me. So I went to my family and I wanted to get more involved thinking a few years down the road, you know, maybe if Rep Suzy was going to retire, we could have that conversation about running maybe in 2020 or 2022. But the day that I'm meeting with my family to have this conversation, we find out the Rep Suzy had passed away. It was that morning. So, you know, I kind of deferred to my uncle and my mom guys and they said you should put your name in because it's good to let people know you're interested and to go through the process, but there's no chance you get appointed. And then I got appointed. So here I am and, you know, last year is kind of, you know, kind of right in front of the fire hose in a sense, you know, getting a full exposure to everything that the legislature has to offer, but I'm feeling a lot more comfortable now having gone through that process. So what committees are you on? So for this upcoming session, I'll be on the finance committee. I'll be the vice chair for the water and land committee and also serving on energy and environmental protection. And human services, health and human services. So the past session, I was on human services, health and consumer protection. But transitioning this year. So you're not on health and human services? No, not for this upcoming session. But yesterday they had your name. I think that was kind of a relic. They haven't made the official change, but that's going to be my new positions for this upcoming session. Oh, OK. I was looking forward to you being there. When I saw the, you know, they left, wrote, lined up the names. Right, right, right. Yeah, so the change should become official sometime in the next few days. So we don't know who's on your place. I know Lay, yeah. I know a player month's going to be there and some of the prior members. But I'm not sure on the specific makeup. I don't know if they've, you know, fully, you know, completed that process yet. So on land and water and what else? Environmental protection, as well as the finance committee. Oh, well, everybody's on finance, right? The 15 of us, quite a few. So now, of course, as you know, our program is dedicated to the end of life processes and care. And for the last year and a half, we have had people from every walk of life, ministers, rabbis, imams, priests, everybody to talk about the end of life in their culture, in their ethnic group, how people deal with it and what have you. Tell me, this is not political, I mean, I don't, tell me, are you Hawaiian? No. So, my family's origin story in a way is complicated. No, because I was going to ask, is there a tradition in your family of the end of life? I think we're pretty, I guess when you consider like an average, you know, local family in that sense, so probably, you know, burial or cremation. But nothing, nothing necessarily tied to a host culture or anything like that. Yeah, so for me, I thought the Japanese Buddhist was the best, even though I'm not obviously not Japanese or Buddhist, but they celebrate with the dying person while he or she is still with us. And they do all the things that the Christians do in a funeral. They do with the patient. They tell them how much they care for them and what they meant in their life and all of these wonderful things prior to their passing, so that it is a pleasant passing. And the imam, the Muslims said that they tell stories and get the person ready to go to wherever that is. So that was what I was asking, if there's anything special your family does at the end as a person?  So I'm not sure exactly, I'm sure it's kind of similar up here in Oahu, but a lot of times funeral services on the Big Island, they're a very big food event. So that's usually what people talk about after the fact is the food and what kind of spread there was. Local people won't forgive you anything if the food is good. Yeah, but during the actual dying process, I've been very fortunate. For my mom, her parents passed away when she was a teenager. So she had to go through that process at a very early age. But for me, I've been kind of insulated from that. My parents are still around. And even though my grandparents have all passed away, none of them were in Hawaii. They were in Japan and on the mainland. So I haven't had to deal with that on that personal level in the way that a lot of people have by my age. Yeah. So, excuse me, I really don't like not being well. Anyway, so now with this bill that's before the legislature, medical aid and dying, and there's so many misnomers, tell me what you think or how you feel about it. This is, you know, I'm not asking you to vote, I'm just talking about, you know, personal. What do you feel? So I think for me, it comes down to, you know, personal freedom.  And so for me, that's what this issue is about. It's preventing human suffering, but also allowing people that last choice. You know, we allow choice in so many other areas, but not at the end of life right now. And what we've seen is that in other states where they have similar legislation, it's a relatively small number of people who actually utilize the process. But it definitely can be a very comforting feeling for those families, knowing that they don't have to go through that end of life, pain and suffering the same way that they would otherwise. Yeah, we're going to take a break and we'll be back in 60 seconds. And at that time, if we can really go through the drill and see if there's anything that you felt uncomfortable about, OK? We'll be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Is it a feeling? Is it a place? Is it an idea? At DiveHeart, we believe freedom is all of these and more, regardless of your ability. DiveHeart wants to help you escape the bonds of this world and defy gravity. Since 2001, DiveHeart has helped children, adults and veterans of all abilities go where they have never gone before. DiveHeart has helped them transition to their new normal. Search diveheart.org and share our mission with others. And in the process, help people of all abilities imagine the possibilities in their lives. Aloha, welcome to Hawaii. This is Prince Dykes, your host of The Prince of Investing. Coming to you guys each and every Tuesday at 11 a.m. Right here on Think Tech Hawaii. Don't forget to come by and check out some of the great information on stocks, investments, your money, all the other great stuff. And I'll be your host. See you, too. Aloha, and we're back. And we're talking to our new hero. I never thought I'd say that about a politician. But it's a pleasure. This young man, Chris Todd, from Hilo, from District 2. And for anyone that's counting, Hilo number is our first district, of course. Yeah, the North Hilo, the Honolulu call, yeah. It begins with District 1 and ends here in Honolulu in Waimanalo with District 51. That goes up, then around, and back. Not that anybody cares. But so we're talking about medical aid and dying. And last year, Chris was on the committee that heard the bill in the Health Committee. And so I would like you to tell me your feelings about if there was something that wasn't clear, that should have been clear, if we can answer any of those questions. Because if you didn't understand, I'm sure this part of our audience didn't understand. So can you tell me those? Sure. So I think for me, my interest is making sure that once we put this policy into place, that it can survive, that it's here for the long haul. So with that in mind, I try to identify certain areas of risk, where let's say that certain part of the bill, as an example, you would get this prescription after this pretty lengthy evaluation process to make sure you're mentally competent. Would you take the prescription home? You administer it home? So my concern is maybe someone uses this prescription for medical aid and dying, but it changes their mind, or something strange like that happens. And they go through this medical emergency, but they don't have a physician there. They don't have a nurse there, or anyone from law enforcement who could care for them. So while I believe that even in the previous form of last year, that the pros definitely outweigh the cons, and that this is kind of like an extreme scenario, my preference would be that there are a few more regulations in place, and that the paperwork and accounting for a lot of the stuff is a little bit more stringent. But with that being said, even in its current form, in SB, I think it was 1129, it's still a net benefit. I just want to make sure that this is protected, so that if you have a high profile case, that it doesn't derail the whole thing. Well, a lot of that happens in the health department when they go through with all bills. And then it never looks, never. Anyway, you're saying about somebody being with them, and that's fine. There's no problem with someone being with them. It's just that someone cannot administer it. Correct. Now, for anyone that says, why not? There is a law on the books that says, no matter what condition you're in, if I assist you in dying, I am charged with manslaughter. So to protect the doctor, the nurse, we cannot. It's very difficult. Yeah. Unless, of course, we go and work at changing the law. Which, Attorney General said, that's what we need to do. Because he's agreeing, like you, he's agreeing that, yes, we want somebody with them, but they cannot assist. That's where you get into liability in a little sense, even, yeah. But that's when you don't want someone that is love going to help you out of love and then be charged with manslaughter. Definitely. So that's, I know, that's crazy. But that's part of the problem. Yeah. No, I think anytime you're dealing with something as complex and emotional as death, I think you're going to have issues pop up. So there's no such thing as a perfect piece of legislation. You know, I was prepared last year with that legislation to pass it, at least until the next committee with some of our concerns issued. But hopefully this session, we have something reintroduced or work being done on that existing bill to take care of some of those details to make it a little bit more palatable. But I just want the end result to be sustainable, I guess. But one of the things that the evangelical Christian right has said repeatedly is that this is physicians assisted suicide. It is neither physicians assisted nor is it suicide. If I have cancer, which I have had, the cancer is eating up the body. You're not committing suicide. It's you have all before you can get the prescription. You've already reached the point where there's nothing we can do. It's inevitable. Yeah. Nothing we can do. Yeah. But they keep telling that and they keep talking about old people. Well, okay, I am old, but does that mean it's terminal? We're all terminal. Yeah. But just being old doesn't meet meet the requirement of the bill. And then they talk about the handicap. Handicap is not terminal. But they keep saying it's over and over again. That's why I'm going with this, with asking you these questions. What else other than those obvious things? What else? Anything else that jumps out at you that says maybe we need to fix this? Well, I think for me that was the major issue, actually, was more of the paperwork and some of the fine-tuning, some of the details. I know I had a lot of advocates for the disabled community come in and talk to me, but I personally, I don't see that in the future. I know they're concerned about this being expanded later on, but I don't see that happening. I mean, you can see with our own reluctance to pass even something as limited as this, where you have to be within the last six months and you have to pass all the mental competency exams. So I feel like that's not realistic. And a lot of the cultural concerns, I understand. But I think this is the difference for me between this and other very complicated issues is that this isn't something that directly harms anyone else. This is an individual choice, like I said, it prevents suffering at the end of life. And for me, if you're doing no harm to those around you, you should have those personal freedoms. Let me explain to our audience who have not read the bill. It says clearly that you have to be terminally ill within six months and that no one in your family who stands to gain from your demise can assist in drawing up the papers that are necessary. That is a class A felon. And so it's not, so if people want to get rid of grandma, they can find a way to do it. You don't need this bill. People, every day we read about people getting rid of somebody. So they don't need this bill. And if grandma has an estate, let me tell you, folks, if grandma has an estate and you put her in Queens Hospital, those last days of her life all hooked up, that is a minimum of $10,000 a day. So when grandma does pass after all of that, and then she leaves you with the bill, do you really want that? Is that the way you want to remember grandma? $10,000 a day. And I think that's the other reality with our growing cost of living. You don't want people to make these decisions for financial reasons. But if I'm in that situation, let's sit down the road and I'm six months or less and I see the burden this is placing on my family, I want the ability to make that choice for my family. Whenever you're ready. Right. Exactly. The bill is constructed in a way where people can't apply undue pressure because we're always concerned about abuse of our senior citizens. But if they are in that situation, I know that if I'm in that exact situation and I have that choice made available to me, you at least have to consider it. You don't want to bankrupt your children or your spouse at the end of life. So I think this isn't something that's going to be forced on anyone, but they should have the ability to choose for themselves. Now, one doctor, Dr. Sites, he said that so many doctors aren't ready for this. Well, no doctor is compelled to take the part in this if for some reason they're not comfortable with it. They don't have to be trained. They are trained. That's where the MD comes from. But if for some reason they feel that they can't do this, there's nothing that compels them to do it. Right. And obviously, I'm not a doctor. Yeah. I'm definitely not an expert on that field. So you have to take into consideration that sort of testimony. But for me, I guess this isn't something that needs to be implemented immediately. This is something that you can give that window of time to provide adequate training that can be written into the bill. This is a decision we're making that we want to sign the test of time, that we want to benefit people not only next year, but 10 years from now and 20 years from now. So we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Those are concerns that need to be addressed, but they shouldn't be the reason we are not able to pass this bill. Yes. So another person that brought up about the certain things aren't open to the public about this patient, well, with the HIPAA, nothing is open to the public. And it shouldn't be. And it shouldn't be. That's their individual right. Yeah. That's, why do we need to know? You know, the person is already ill with whatever the disease is. That's enough. We don't need to know anything else. I don't think. Yeah. So on my end, when I was looking at some of the reporting requirements, and that's something I'd like to see strengthened in a sense, but not for public consumption, you know, this is something where it may be five years into this program. And you know, what we've seen on the mainland is that very few people actually go through with this process. So you might be talking about in five years in Hawaii, maybe a dozen or two, I mean, maybe a little bit more. And that's that aggregate information could be made available to policymakers, provided that, you know, privacy and all of those requirements that this is kept confidential. But this isn't public knowledge, and no one's health situation should be made public unless they ask it to be, you know. And with hospice, for instance, the hospice nurse signs off on the death certificate. They don't say anything else, except the fact that this is comes from hospice. It is taken that everything is fine. The person passed away, time, place, and whatnot, and they sign, there's no question about what was the cause of death, what was any of this, no. And this should be treated the same way.  It's very likely, very likely. So there's so many of this nonsense. It seems nonsense. And I think I'm looking forward to, you know, the relevant committees having the discussion again. I feel like going through that process and in the two to three hour hearing last time, and hearing a variety of viewpoints, it was very informative. But you know, beyond that, I think there is a lot of public value just in having the discussion. And I do feel like this is something that we are going to pass. I'm hopeful for this upcoming session. But even if it does, you know, take a longer process, I do feel like we're headed in that direction that this is a conversation that people are having with their loved ones all across the country. And the less we, you know, keep death shrouded in this mystery and not talk about it, the better off we all are. And then at that last hearing that was packed and everybody got one minute to speak, that's not very informative. We've said more in the last 25 minutes, you know, and then there's so much more to go that really unless we can have an informational briefing where there's more discussion, more give and take, but one minute, that's not very much. And, you know, I was witness to it, and it can be very difficult, you know, to balance, you know, when you only have 120 or so people are trying to provide input. It can be very difficult. And I think you're right. I think we are better served by having something very public. And I think, you know, in terms of good governance, people always feel better about an outcome if they feel like they've been hurt on an issue. So that's something we can hopefully do a little bit better going forward. Well, it's been a real pleasure spending this time with you. And we look forward as the session goes on for you to come back and keep us updated on what you're doing, especially what's going on in the Big Island. Oh, that's always a good time. Yes. Well, thank you so much. Aloha, and we'll see you next time.


In December 2022 we successfully completed our mission to implement the Buenos Aires Action Plan. But the journey is not over. 2.7 billion people are not yet connected. 27% of them live in list-developed countries. A new roadmap of action was adopted in Kigali, with five priorities to achieve universal connectivity and sustainable digital transformation, and five enablas to make this happen. From January to May 2023, lives have already been touched, impacted, positively changed all over the world. Here are some snippets of our work so far to advance the ITUD priorities. In Africa, satellite phones were deployed to Malawi and Mozambique after Cyclone Freddy hit in early 2023. Trainings on the efficiency toolkit developed with the United Kingdom's Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office FCDO were conducted in Kenya and Sierra Leone. The regional cyber drill for Africa was carried out in Malawi. And a story map highlighting e-west policy, development and data collection in Africa was released. In the Americas, national emergency telecommunication plans were developed for Paraguay and St. Kitts and Natives. The early warnings for all initiative was launched regionally to mobilize support by Caribbean prime ministers. At the EcoSoc Youth Forum at UN headquarters in New York, Generation Connect co-organized an event on youth-leading digital transformation in LDCs. In the Arab states, the digital innovation profile for Oman was launched. Collaboration on the Gavstak initiative kicked off in Egypt, Iraq, Mauritania and Somalia. A virtual cyber drill was held for Saudi Arabia, while in Morocco, work continues on the development of a new national cyber security strategy. In the Asia Pacific, Pakistan launched the SMART villages initiative and inaugurated the first SMART village in Gokina. The ITU Area Office and Innovation Center was opened in New Delhi. A session on green digital transformation in circular economy for electronics was delivered online. The disaster connectivity map was activated in Vanuatu, impacted by tropical cyclones Judy and Kevin. Since January, the map has also been activated in other regions, specifically in Turkey and Syria, following the earthquake that hit the two countries in February. In CIS, Uzbekistan, the regional forum on future networks was held with a training on conformity and interoperability. In Azerbaijan, a national digital skills assessment was launched. The regional forum on SMART and sustainable cities was held in Belarus. And in Europe, assistance was provided to Moldova and Bosnia and Herzegovina to develop specifications for national broadband mapping systems. All over the world, the ITU-D broadband infrastructure and transmission maps offer a key tool for countries to identify connectivity gaps and explore potential solutions. The National Digital Transformation Strategy for North Macedonia was finalized. The Regional Development Forum for Europe and its regional partner to connect round table were held in Romania. This is how we impact lives. This is BDT for impact.


Hi there, I'm Alex Clark. I'm here to share a research project I've been doing about the future of online content distribution. So this has been conducted within the School of Information Management at Victoria University under the supervision of Brenda Trawner. So there's a bit of background about the project. So it was initiated to explore how creators share their content online. In particular we wanted to explore the relationship between openness and restriction and the dynamic between those two. Looking at people's attitudes towards access and reuse of their work, their opinions about copyright and licensing, and the impact of different funding strategies on the level of openness of their work. One of the key things we looked at was open licensing. So there was a lot of support among creators for open licensing. They pointed out the benefits of remix culture and how it enables people to build upon their work and to give their creation new life in other contexts. And a lot of people pointed out that it provides a strong alternative to the all rights reserved model and it allows creators to actively encourage other people to build upon their work. Most people also pointed out though that they do want control over commercial reuse and they also want to be acknowledged and they want to have attribution there so they want to know what's happened with their work and they want to be recognised for it. Some of the concerns that were raised though is that a lot of creators do have a desire for permission. There's a lot of fear about their work being used in the wrong context in ways that might not align with their moral compass or there's a whole range of reasons that they might not be comfortable with the reuse. There's a bit of fear around poor quality of derivatives and how that might impact on the reputation of their work. And a very small number of people pointed out that their belief that remixes aren't real creativity and though they have a very pure belief in the idea of creation as being purely original. Other people brought up issues around culturally sensitive works as well. And one of the biggest issues was if you're going to make your work freely available it kind of throws up in the air the way that you fund work so it's very different to traditional business models and it makes it very difficult to fund what you do in the system of livelihood. Even though they were concerned most people said that they would allow reuse if they were asked directly and even if they weren't asked most people said they wouldn't pursue legal action. They accept that some things are going to happen on the fringes regardless. We also talked about copyright with each interviewee. So people who supported copyright they pointed out that it rewards and incentivises creativity. It upholds creator rights. It standardises acceptable uses and reuses so each of those uses don't need to be negotiated every single time. And it also provides a foundational framework for licensing and that includes open licensing. You need copyright or some kind of rights regime to then build upon. But most people said there are some quite significant changes that are needed for copyright to be fully effective. In terms of the concerns a lot of people pointed out that strict copyright hinders creativity and it stops other people building upon their work. There are a lot of concerns about copyright being unbalanced and favouring rights holders and corporations rather than the producers of content and the users and the audience. A lot of concerns around the length of protection and most people thought their copyright was last for too long. Also people brought up how copyright ignores the collective nature of culture and how it's not a pure type of property as some people try to put, try to assert. We also pointed out punishments are too harsh and they don't like the idea of their fans being punished for trying to access their work. But most people agreed with the underlying concept of copyright and they think that most people that I interviewed thought that it was good. In terms of copyright reform so people think there should be a rebalance towards user rights, decrease the punishments, increase the copyright exemption so there are a wider range of fair uses that people are allowed to do. With the length of protection most people said it should be brought back although there were a couple of exceptions. Some people thought copyright should last for eternity but on the whole most people thought it was a little bit too long. Other people pointed out that copyright law in New Zealand needs to be for New Zealanders and it needs to meet our needs not the interests of overseas governments or corporations. And also a lot of recognition that copyright law hasn't quite fully adapted to a digital environment and there needs to be further changes around that. And also it's not just about the law the way we use copyright and enforce it and deal with it so it has to be about a cultural change not just the letter of the law. In terms of funding content everybody bought up the creative destruction that's occurred with the advent of the internet. So there are a lot of threats there in terms of the traditional business models most of those have been thrown out the door and it's very difficult to fund your livelihood if you are created. But there's also opportunities. It creates a lot of hope and there's a lot of new ways to share your content and a lot of ways to fund it as well. There's also the difficult balance of how do you maximise revenue without impacting the number of people you can reach because at the moment a lot of the monetisation strategies online involve restrictions and if you have too many restrictions what's the point of creating content? Pretty much everybody I talk to wants to reach as many people as possible. They also pointed out how distribution costs are zero and a lot of people have said while everything should be completely free but there's still the issue of how do you fund things in the first place? Completely free might work for some hobbyists but in terms of really in-depth and comprehensive reporting and what have you and music, it's difficult to fund yourself. People have also mentioned it's very difficult to price your own creativity if you make the price too high are you being arrogant and shutting off your fan base? And if you don't put a price on it are you kind of disrespecting yourself as a creator? There's no clear answers there. In terms of alternatives people talked about making their work free to build an audience or having pay-as-you-like, merchandising and going on tour, crowdfunding or you can eat bundles such as Spotify or Netflix and a lot of people pointed out that this might be a good middle ground where you're still paying but you get unlimited access to fees and content taxes with that money going back to creators and then micro payments and then also a number of people pointed out public funding still has a role and should potentially be expanded because there's a lot of content that can't be funded by the free market but yeah, there's no one silver bullet it's extremely difficult as a creator you need to balance a whole range of monetisation strategies if that's what you're looking for there's not one thing that's going to work and pretty much everyone I talked to they have other sources of income they can't sustain themselves just through creation and that impacts their ability to create new works I think I forgot to mention at the start so I had 26 interviewees most of those were creators so musicians, journalists and authors also talked to publishers people from the record industry and media commentators and it was about 18 hours of interview time and 150,000 words of transcripts which I will get through eventually in terms of contact details feel free to reach out if you've got any questions or want to contribute or anything and here's the details of my supervisor too she initiated the project so feel free to reach out to her thank you