Oh, my gosh, we are live guys. Whoa. You're not going to believe this. Let me tell you something. Right before this happened, sitting at this desk, we're surrounded by tech and equipment and papers and books and things of that nature.  That's not what it's called, but it makes my brain work. And so we were just scattering trying to clean things up. So if we're a little late, that's why because apparently today I am a klutz and I am spilling things, but that's OK. Things happen. That's life, right? To be honest, to be honest, when I was a kid, I used to spill drinks so often, like out to eat or just at the dinner table that my mom started calling me the spill queen. Wow. That was like my nickname, my childhood name. So there you go. It's OK, Jordan. I'm really late. Well, here we are. Like I said, that's not if it happens. Spilling things. And so then I switched to something with a cap. So hopefully that doesn't happen again during the show. Having said quick things real quick, if you are just now tuning in. Listen, we're doing something really fun, funky, cool, fresh, whatever the kids say nowadays, if you would like to talk to us after the show live, literally live, we will put your beautiful faces and your hopefully beautiful comments on the screen. All you have to do is you're either watching us on Facebook or you're watching us on YouTube, just chat, chat, chat away in the type of type type type. That was much better than chat type. Type type type in the box, comment, make your comments. We will throw your comment on screen and in fact while I'm doing these quick announcements If you want to test it out to see that we're not lying Go ahead drop a comment and we'll throw one of your comments on screen But while we're doing that a couple things we have to talk about as we always do APO SCO Li vi a.org possibly VA. Why should you go there?  We should all be striving for more and you can do that at oh, you know what? I'm mixing up my sites. I what I really meant was Abla-dash Institute What does this have to do with intelligence everything is thrown out. Everything is thrown out right? I was trying to figure out what you meant. This is the beauty of behind-the-scenes. Well, but here's the thing Abla-dash Institute org or a possibly VA either one of those because what do we have on AV? We have free courses on a possibly make you smarter. See I can clean it up Clean it up like the mess. I spilled everywhere And then of course if you want to take some courses from some of the greatest minds that the Catholic Church has ever known faithful to the Magisterium Abla-institute.org Two more things one We have a ton of webinars coming up this year like really excited about it if you would like to check out those webinars I'm not even gonna list them out the one that I know that I'm really excited for is Father Moro overcoming or habitual sin. I was just making the promo for it something about habitual sin overcoming Yeah, I'm doing a terrible job. You can find that at spiritualdirection.com slash events Really excited for that. That's gonna be in April and then last thing is if you like what we're doing There's seven of you here. I would hug every one of you if you would allow it. Maybe not. I don't know I probably shouldn't make those statements a Firm high five would be more appropriate if you would like to you know kind of help us out because you like what we're doing Go to Abla-army.org where you can become a you actually you know more about this.  It's exclusive and you get to insider access to all kinds of stuff So join the Abla-army. We would love to have you That's awesome enough of the ads That's what we do in the beginning of the show And folks just so you know, I'm sorry. Listen, I gotta say this real quick We're doing kind of a change up with the time So we'll probably end up having ads mid-show rather than the beginning of the show just so you're aware So we're not boring you guys. I know you don't come here for the ads you come here for the saints and the sages This is just behind the scenes anyway. The scenes so on that note You ready what note was that Jordan? I was a terrible no correct. No I'm ready Hey, I'm Jordan Burke and I'm Kristen Paiola and this is Saints and Sages where we talk about the wisdom of the saints and how it's relevant for you I'm ready. I don't know about you. I'm ready personally to slay a dragon I don't actually believe that you just spilled your drink because the amount of energy that you have just I didn't I didn't drink it. Yeah, I didn't drink it So for those those tuning in posts if you're listening to this currently on the podcast You're gonna be wondering what does she mean? Well, I spilled a drink a full drink all over the desk all Everything of Dan's and like so and you know what I'm proud of myself. I didn't cry. So on that note Not yeah, you didn't cry like St. George didn't cry Okay, so St. George you might know him if you've ever seen a saint with a with a spear And he's he's not a horse and he's slaying a dragon, right, you know, St. George That's who we're talking about today. So he's way back in like 300 AD Yeah So we actually don't know his birth date which is interesting But we know that he was likely born in Cappadocia with to a Cappadocia father and a Palestinian mother of noble rank and Kind of when we are talking about like when he first like comes on scene and shows up is in this catalog that I'm going to attempt to say it, but I have a feeling it's gonna end up horrendously Bibliotheca Higo-graphica Gracia Maybe anyway, what it is is Greek materials and including ancient literary works on the lives of the saints That's what it is. So that's where we kind of first see where he's at and generally these have like translations of Miracles and it's arranged alphabetically and kind of gives them all these different things It's like a it's like a the encyclopedia of the saints for that time And essentially what Jordan is saying is this man has been revered for centuries a long ages and ages the church has revered St. George Yeah, and to revered to the point that Pope Galicia Galicia Galicia's G e l a s i u s I'm on a struggle bus today. I can't listen words are hard Said he was a saint who quote whose name he's comparing him I should I should provide context. I apologize He is saying St. George and several others So the quote starts with whose names so these saints including St. George are justly Reverenced among men, but whose actions are known only to God and that was basically him saying we know He's a saint. We know enough about him that that is true. We don't know the entirety of his story This is just another one of those saints that isn't just not super well known. It's not we don't have a ton of history on Yeah, in the Middle Ages, he was given towel as one of the 14 holy helpers Which is a big deal. Okay. I didn't have that and then also King Edward the third even made him patron saint of England To this day. He's still the patron saint of England, right? He's not English. Yeah, in fact, Cappadocia is modern-day Turkey So if you're trying to look for a Cappadocia on the map, it's Turkey, which is I would prefer Cappadocia to Turkey I think that sounds such a cool name and then it sounds like pasta So to his story what we do know is that when George was old enough He basically went into Dioletian's army and then by his late 20s. He became a Roman like Imperial guard So this was a big deal. He was in and I should provide context for that as well Guys who made it to that point They are well trained and battle and combat like these guys are not just they're no joke They are legit soldiers and the good news is that his parents actually raised him Christian So he went into the army Christian and since his dad was a Roman officer, I'm sure that's how he was able to get in But he was serving under Emperor Nicomedia, but unfortunately Diocletian announced that every Christian army that passed would be arrested and every other soldier if they Came by it would have to sacrifice the Roman gods. So yeah, this was including Saint George Yeah, and it wasn't just Christian armies. It was Christians in general So they were doing a full-out persecution of the Christians. They just hated Christians, right, right? Well, you know, we're supposed to be hated by the world So but yeah, Diocletian hated the Christians and and as you said basically he put out this mandate You see a Christian we're arresting them and every one of you better worship the pagan Roman pagan gods That's what we do here. And if you're not about it, we're gonna have some issues This is what kind of this is what George is finding himself coming up against now And if you think about that too, he's in a situation where he was completely and entirely loyal to his career Right as he should be he was a good good soldier. That's why he made this rank That's why you know, he's respected and and we should also probably note that Dioletian was friends with his dad. I have with George's father Yeah, he was friends with him and so that actually made it very difficult when George said no and refused to worship the Roman gods Because then it kind of put Diocletian in this weird spot where he's like man I'm like friends with your dad.  I kind of have to so maybe we could work a deal, right? So he did he tried to yeah, he was like, I gotta convert this guy. So he's like offering him land and his slaves and Money all kinds of things were offered to George and still he said no. Yeah, it's that typical story of you know Well, well, I shouldn't say typical because it is interesting that Diocletian was trying to quote-unquote save him and Just purely from what I read out of respect for it George's father that friendship that they had Whatever that looked like or however that kind of came about But it is and it is the typical story in the sense of hey, I'll offer you whatever you want You just have you know, it's interesting I'm stopping myself mid-sentence because it just reminded me of kind of something that we have going on in the world today Which is these attempts from the enemy to drag us into Worldly things enticements. I'll give you anything you want.  You just have to you know worship this God Like we have so many idols nowadays whether it's the golden calf of fame Whether it's the idol of money whether it's the idol of whatever it is I mean, you can you there's people worshiping the idol of fear right now They're just completely fearful and and that's not I'm not passing judgment on anybody with that statement We just have these different things that are coming about but it's all the same story, right? It's the same through line It's it's the enemy saying I'll give you what you want. I'll give you or I'll give you all these things Just to just do this little thing because what happens with George George says hey look I'm not going to persecute Christians. Sorry. Not only am I not going to pursue you Christians. I am a Christian and Dioletion says well, we can't we can't roll that way Yeah, he he stood his ground. He said no, I will not worship other gods and That's the cool part about st. George is he was enticed He had all those temptations right in front of him It would have been the easier route to just take the land the wealth and the slaves and be like I'm out of here But no, he was like forget it. I I love my God. I will serve him to the day I die I worship him him alone and so I will I will not worship your pagan gods And so unfortunately Dioletion was like well, I guess I'm gonna have to order you to be executed right and tortured in a pretty horrific way And I actually heard of it actually. Yeah, I actually didn't write down the entire thing because I was thinking okay Who's gonna be listening to this?  Yeah, yeah I don't even know what that looks like. Hi, but that sounds so painful. Don't Google. We'll send in. He was decapitated Then he was decapitated. Yep outside of the city walls if I if I remember reading correctly So it's really interesting, you know, obviously he is a martyr for the faith But that's not even what's one of the things that I was kind of wondering about as I was doing research was That's not his like well-known story The well-known story is the dragon. Yeah, I mean, that's right That's the art that we see, you know We do a lot of events at the shrine of the most blessed sacrament in the event hall Where we have most of our stuff going on. There's this gorgeous Gorgeous bronze statue about the size of my torso. I mean, it's no joke. It's huge and It's St. George slaying the dragon. It's just it's incredible But that's what he's well-known for Yeah, there were apparently a lot of Christians at his burial and it was near Palestine Palestine apparently and Many people were there to honor him and because they saw that he had so much faith and just couldn't believe it and There was a basilica built also over where he was buried and that's modern-day Israel But yeah, maybe we should tell them the story of the dragon. Yeah, I have that you know, well known It's it's pertinent to a story. I guess so this is taken from CNA and as always will link The resources and the post if you want to go back later and read it yourself But this is this is the story from CNA St. George is usually depicted in Christian art as a soldier on horseback killing a dragon with a lance This image is a representation of a pop popular legend of St. George Which first appears in 1265 in a romance titled the golden legend in which he saved a town Terrorized by a dragon with one blow of his lance the image However is also and more significantly a powerful symbol of the victory of Christian faith Over-evil sometimes interpreted more contextually in the church as paganism Which we were talking before the show is very similar to St. Patrick in the drawing or driving with snakes, right? Personified by the devil who was symbolized by the dragon according to the imagery in revelations now more in depth So that's the that's like the clip notes version of the story I was gonna say yeah, but the actual story you had we both read it, but it's it's there was a King and his daughter and there may have been a crocodile Okay, so it says he was fighting a dragon, but it might have been a crocodile in reality It might have also been just like a metaphorical story in the Middle Ages because dragons The devil was often portrayed as a dragon, but people weren't able to collect water Apparently, I don't know if it was a river or lake or something and because this animal, you know I think it was a dragon was nesting there So they were like throwing it sheep like two sheep a day, right? And I guess there was a bad dragon there There was a point where all the sheep were gone and they needed to feed this dragon so they could get their water for their livelihood So they started like, you know drawing sticks like okay Who's gonna go next and they were throwing women like maidens well No, so the first one so the first so the king says we're gonna draw Whatever draw straw or whatever Yeah, and this is gonna be the new thing because we're out of we're out of Out of sheep and so the very first day that he puts this new law in order law in order SVU great show done done The very first day that he puts this law into effect His daughter is the one his daughter is the one who picks the straw and he's like Oh, yeah, the princess was chosen Unfortunately, she was the one and but George showed up George came in and was like no We can't let that happen. He came in protected her from the dragon He showed the sign of the cross the dragon was slayed and of course after that They abandoned paganism became Christians, right? So that is the story. We're gonna go to a break and when we come back We're gonna give you some more interesting facts and a reflection be right back For those watching behind the scenes, you might be thinking be right back Yeah, we're doing that for post-production. We're gonna try some new things here And hopefully it's gonna be more relevant for y'all five of you are watching right now I'm happy to see all five of you if you would like to talk to us after the show stay around type something in the chat box and we will Talk to you. I mean, there's really nothing more to it than that. It's kind of cool I ask a question your face gets if your face is plugged in here Your face pops up on screen and we can say oh, hey, we see that person You might want to know what color the dragon was you might want to know might or might not have answers What what drink did you spill like all that kind? Yeah, what is Jordan drink right right now? Just water insider, right? Okay, ready. Yeah Welcome back to Saints and Sages. I'm Jordan Burke with Hey, yeah, we are talking about St. George We have just kind of gone over his history gone over the most popular story of the dragon All these different things and now let's get in like I have a ton of quote-unquote interesting facts That I stole from Catholic org, which I don't think they would mind me shouting them out and using their facts as well as you know Maybe we have some reflections that we'll get into what kind of just see how this goes and flows. What do you think? Sure. Okay, great. All right. So tell us all your fun facts. These are my interesting facts They are in no particular order. Okay, so Random facts for you not like a top 10 or Jordan and break here. We go So St. George again, these are all from Catholic org. St. George stands out among other saints and legends because he is known and revered by both Muslims and Christians. Yeah, I wrote that down too. I find that fascinating So why are the Muslims like him? It must be the wow factor of the dragon's leg I don't know like this guy was epic. I couldn't find any info on it I and granted I didn't search that deep because we're obviously very focused on well, right, you know the show Maybe the princess was Muslim. I don't well, so Capitose You know, I don't know I shouldn't speculate because I really don't know geography, but yeah interesting enough St. George is revered by both Muslims and Christians. There you go. Okay, so it is said that St. George killed the dragon near the sea in Beirut Thus, St. George Bay is a name in his honor.  St. George's feast day is celebrated on April 23rd, but if it falls before Easter It's celebrated Easter Monday. Oh really the Catholic Church, right? Okay. How interesting is that? I didn't know that The Russian Orthodox Church celebrates three Count them one uno dos tres St. George feast days each year April 23rd as expected November 3rd to commemorate the consecration of a cathedral dedicated to him and Lydia and On November 26th when a church in Kiev was dedicated to him That's a lot of celebrating of one saint So I thought I don't know I thought that was interesting just because I have not heard of One saint having multiple feast days. Wow. Yeah, but it's also the orthodox and I know that there's like anyway Let's life goals try to have four feast days when you die. That is actually, you know what? That's a good life goal In Bulgaria his feast day is celebrated at May 6th with the slaughter and roasting of a lamb Back to the story of the dragon. Oh with the sheep, right, right lamb is delicious and Egypt The Coptic orthodox church in Alexandria called St. George the prince of martyrs and celebrates his feast day on May 1st Now there's a second celebration November 17th in honor of the first church Dedicated to him. So again, this is You know, they are interesting facts, but it's fascinating in the sense that like we still don't know that much about him Historically, but he's very widely celebrated even by other religions. Just just all over the world It's fascinating I got two more bear with me St. George is the patron saint of England as you said yes in Catalonia and his cross can be found throughout England And then finally in older works St. George works of art St. George is depicted wearing armor and holding a lance or fighting a dragon Which represents Christ's enemies? So that one was kind of more towards the A symbolism aspect of kind of what we were talking about before all of those can be found on catholic org Which is a great resource when you're researching saints now reflections I just feel like anyone who gets claimed or titled one of the 14 holy helpers from the middle ages Because they were just epic back then anybody from the middle ages. I just feel like they were really Just incredible people who just I don't know.  I don't know He must have been really well known and really just revered because if you get to be one of the 14 holy helpers That's a pretty big deal So but my question is how like what about him in particular versus some other people Is it because he was offered so much like to get out of it? And like he just didn't fall into that temptation. Is it the dragon story? Like what led to his fame and popularity? Yeah, there there's such an interesting aspect to our faith where we've talked about it like we we have endless The saints are endless. I mean there's saints in heaven that we may not ever know about right because they're saints That's just how it works But we have saints now where we don't know their history as well as we we could Whether it being lost or just not recorded. We just have bits and pieces and they still have this huge wide effect I'm still blown away. I get a kick out of it every time I'm in mass and I hear st. Lucy Oh, yeah, after we after we did that episode you correct stick, right I mean we don't pre congregation barely have any information on her I mean really hardly any information on her and yet she said every single Some cake well, yeah every day in mass. I think that really displays just the beauty of tradition in the catholic church and how things are lasting and how So much could happen years and years and years ago and to this day It's still so real for us, right? Um, I mean st. George in our modern day. I wouldn't say he's as popular as like st Teresa of Calcutta like you could ask anybody who you know, mother Teresa is they're gonna know But still st. George. I mean most people know that one saint who slayed a dragon and um But I mean other than that Jordan. Did you have other reflections? No, I mean it's just another yet another example of dying for your faith another example of being relentlessly just Um fighting yeah fighting for it. Yeah, I'm struggling for words But it's it's the same with so many of the saints that we've already talked about who have given their lives You know st. John of Arc to the point of literally shedding blood to the point of literally shedding blood Yeah, I mean yeah scripture. It's it's it's really an incredible thing and it's it's an example because Look folks. I mean In a lot of ways. Well for one there's persecution going on in the world right now Against Christians all over the world all over the world China Um, who is the there's a group a very popular group of Christians right now being persecuted. Oh lord, forgive me I can't think of their names Anyway, persecution is happening currently all over the place Even in some cases in the united states believe it or not, but nothing to this level And I we see at least that we see correct. That's a good. That's a good qualification I always kind of fall back on am I prepared Am I prepared if it gets this if it gets this far? Will it get this far? And and then even with that even if it doesn't am I living up to my faith today? Am I living up to you know, the what is what is necessary the standard or so to speak one of the standards? I think anyway, like if this guy died for his faith in a horrific way I mean resuscitated three times come on, you know torture to the point of death and brought back What excuses do I have to live in a lukewarm manner and the answer is none? You don't have any excuses to do that. I don't know nor does anyone else So I don't know that's something that always pops of mind when I when I kind of hear about these these martyrs and these saints I mean the majority of us will not have the opportunity I I'm I'm pretty sure in our lifetime to Be murdered like this per se. So I guess that makes me pause and wonder like, okay so how am I to live out my faith in a way that Is true to you know, what I say I believe in really living out the faith and a lot of it I think is pretty simple and just being faithful in the way that we are called to be christians And one of which is just this little way of like being joyful amidst anything Like we are called to be joyful and it's like if you're in a room and you're with a group of people And they were to be like, all right, we're gonna pull out the christians in this room Like are they gonna know that you're christian? Like if if you're in that group, like are they gonna see that you're different?  Every day just driving on the road like how are you different? How are you standing out and and that should be living a virtuous life And I think st. George although, you know, I didn't know personally But it seems like he was a good christian man and there were people who knew This man, he's he's got it together like he loves the lord and he's gonna die for for god I'm gonna follow that god, right like, you know, so he brought other people with him Evangelistic in the way he lived Right, no, we can learn from him in that way. I couldn't agree more. I think you nailed it I mean, it's again It's just looking up to these saints as the examples that they are In every form and fashion even if it's not to the point of death But still saying That person when they see or interact with me on a daily basis or whenever they interact with me There's something different about that person, right? That's that should be the goal Like that's what I want people to say and I think you're right I think st. George exemplified probably exemplified that I mean, how could he not right? He's denying these orders while still being loyal as much as it can anyway Um, yeah, just another yet another incredible story these martyrs every one of these saints who's a martyr You know, we've talked about it before where we think like Well, is that story going to get boring? Like there's so many who there's so many saints who have just been martyred and it's the same story the same sacrifice Right, they may have been they may have died in her different ways in horrific different ways But still a martyrdom and is that going to get boring and I think no I think every time it comes up. There's something else unique or if not, it's just a good reminder You know what I mean? It's just a yet another reminder. Hey, someone died for this what you're living right now. How good do you have it? I mean, it's not like jesus's passion You know his death and resurrection that doesn't get boring like his nativity story doesn't get boring I'm not bored at christmas And so I don't think these saints stories are boring and even if it is the same thread It's always a different story a different life experience um But I I encourage you to go before the lord and really just reflect What part of my life needs to change? What part of my life am I living am I marked by joy? Do people see me and they see love? Am I loving those who are difficult to love, you know, am I am I really fighting for this? And living out my faith and so and we can ask for st. George's intercession because he clearly was brave And if you need some courage, I think he's got you Yeah, I help them ask him to help slay the dragons whatever dragons are in your life Whether or not it was just metaphorical it's still Something that we can look up to and and and use in our prayer and and you know Even meditate on and as long as it brings us closer to christ, you know, so I think that is a great suggestion That's all we have on st. George Yeah, I think you know if you'd like to learn more about him. We're gonna have We'll put all the links at you know in the description at the end of the show And um, I mean that's really it. Yeah, and if you're interested in chatting with us, um Feel free to email us at saints pod at my avala.com and we would absolutely love to have you And if if you would like to contact us in that way, um, we would we would love to respond So yep. Yep. That's that st. George pray for us. Bye


Uh, best awkward moment. Oh, I hated this. Ha ha ha ha! My god, god! Hello. It's time for your snack time! This is so funny! It's time for your snack time!  So what is, so, so what is this? Three, two, one! Snack time! Oscars! Hello. It's time for your snack! Your snack! Oh, snacks, good! Yeah, it's your snack time! So... Very good. What are my snacks? Mmm. Stupid! Okay. Very good. Very impressive. This is unironically what weebs dream of. What's next soul? Oh, very good. On a paper plate. Ah, indubitably. No, my sir! Please! Please, you! Oh. You must... You must maintain your dignity, sir. Okay. I... I think that went out the window a few minutes ago. Use your knife and fork, sir. Thank you.  Are you guys on a date? Come on. You guys on a date? Date tonight? No. No date? Oh! Don't know. Oh! Ah! Oh, that was weird. Ah, yeah. Okay. You want a beer? Oh, you got a beer. Okay. That's a... Oh, man. Oh, yeah, this is weird. How much tatsas you got? I saw this one. That chick. Who are you? That's gonna work. Yeah, because this is a little... Whoa.  You rich. You can fix it. You just... You're rich. You're rich. You're rich. You're rich. You can fix it.  Dude, I... That's a video here. Dude, I remember whenever we first saw this clip, I don't remember who... Somebody in chat kept spamming same beard. I was talking... They kept spamming... They kept saying same beard. They're dead, dude. Extra Emily, does Uwu to two strangers? Enough!   Are you scared? No, I'm sorry. Oh, no, no, no. Apologies me. Oh, God. Okay. Looks like such a tourist in this clip. Because, like, I think it's the... I think it's the bag. It's so... Like, it's just... It's like the perfect look. It's so funny. Guys. That's great. Best awkward. I mean, every time I'm awkward, I'm biased because this makes me feel incredibly awkward because it's just me. We're not gonna pick ourselves. I think objectively, I think this is probably the most awkward. Cause... Oh, that's not really awkward. That's just funny. I'll say this one. Asking a dad and a daughter if they're on a date. Yeah. Look at this. Guys, look up Sarah in land before time. I kind of see it, dude. I actually kind of see it. Oh, go back. Wait, where'd it go? I kind of see it, dude. I actually kind of see it. That's funny, dude. That is great. Dude, I remember... Dude, one of my favorite things to do, we kept... Have you guys seen it? Like, people do, like, on forums. They do, like, look-alike threads of, like, NFL players or college players, stuff like that, like, in football. That was... We used to go through and we would look those up and we would just die laughing because they used to do that for SMU.  Dude, it was like 10 years ago. I think that kind of stuff is so funny whenever somebody looks like something else. 80% of S-Fan read it. True. But here's the thing, sometimes they're really funny with mine, to be fair. But there's a lot of times when people are, like, long-hair beer at S-Fan or long-hair mustache, one or the other. You should be spending the start of your stream in practice two last hitting creeps.  Thank you, Anonymous, for gifting my unders... Uh, actually, team waiting for it. Best rage moment. Close, close, close, close, close. Nah. Nice try, bro. Well, I'm sorry, bro. Dude, insane, man. In Ross, SodaTel's aint enough. Wait, what is that? A monkey? Wait, what is that? That's awesome.   All right? You eliminated over your chair.  Oopsie. No, you can't go back on it.  But you're ruining the show. As a viewer, I'm... Hey, well, fine. It just isn't here. It's funny, dude. Oh, that was great. Kip breaks a scammer. Yeah, I love Kip Oga. It was the... I'm literally shouting right now, ma'am. Yeah, you don't need to shout. Take a breath. I gotta... Hey, Abel, I have the... I don't know if you heard me before. I have one of the codes. The, uh... I got... I got... This is a $500 code, okay? So I'm gonna... I think I can get the, uh... No, no, no. Oh, wait. Ma'am, no... Farmer Moonman gets tundered. Clutchworks.  No!    This is good. I would say... That's the one. The soda tonic. No, it's funny. The Moonman ones were really good, too. Damn. Okay. Best scary moment. He robs his hand on his door.   Dude, I remember saying this. Look at how scary this looks.   This is not real.   This is not real. That's... Dude, that is ins... Wait. Look! Look at the name of the channel. It's fake. Somebody edited this, streamed it, and then Clinton sent it to him. That's so funny, dude. I never noticed that originally. That's amazing, dude. You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... You c... This is terrifying, dude. That's so funny. Sahara destruction just gifted it here. I'm gonna get my pizza tin. Hold on a second. Okay It's a little dirty, but that's okay. We're gonna have to make pizza dough and Rainy Aaron just gifted a goat a ghost beef sub. Wow, that's cool Puberto no phase are great as fear yet He comes out of there.  I hate them in there.  I'm gonna vote for the Puberto one 100 dude. Oh that one's so bad


The next item of business is a statement by Shirley-Anne Somerville on update on 2022 national qualifications. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of her statement, so there should be no interruptions or interventions. I call on the cabinet secretary for around 10 minutes please. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. As I reaffirmed in Parliament on the 19th of January, it is our firm intention that exams will take place this year. I restated the significant modifications to courses and assessments already made by the SQA to take account of the expected disruption to learning. I set out the contingencies to support learners in the event of further disruption, as has been the position since we made the initial announcement in August last year. The SQA has been working closely with partners, including through the national qualifications group, to take account of the disruption that learners continue to face. Indeed, everyone involved in education, myself included, acknowledged what another exceptionally difficult year this has been. Two weeks ago, I advised that the SQA had indicated that a decision on the scenario 2 contingency was likely to be made soon, based on information such as national teacher and pupil absence levels. While the number of full and partial school closures has been small, it is clear that many secondary schools have experienced extreme disruption in the way of Omicron variant, particularly in the first half of January, in relation to both student and teacher absences. We continue to refine our school safety guidance accordingly, based on evidence on risks and benefits, including the changes that are published today, and are keeping the data under constant review as we move forward. In relation to the college sector, learners had to revert to a universally remote learning model rather than a hybrid model since late December. Given both the level of disruption and its impact on learning and teaching, the SQA board has now taken the decision to invoke the scenario 2 contingency measure, and the SQA will provide revision support to aid learners in their preparations for exams. The SQA will provide revision support for every course that has an exam. The type of support for each course will depend on the course and on the modifications to assessment that the SQA already made at the start of the academic session. Information is now available on the SQA website, setting out the existing modifications and the type of revision support that will be provided for each course by subject and by level. The SQA will provide the full detail of the revision support in early March. This time, it enables teachers to complete delivery of the full modified course requirements before learners turn their attention more fully towards revision in the run-up to the exams. This support is aimed at helping to reduce the stress for learners in preparing for their exams and in allowing them to maximise their performance. The SQA has today also announced its approach to exceptional circumstances, grading and appeals this year. Those measures have been developed in close consultation with members of the national qualifications 22 group. The exam exceptional circumstances approach is available to learners as exams are taking place and provides a backup for learners who are unable to attend their exam or exams due to illness or bereavement or where there is a disruption during the exam. That will include Covid-19 related absences. The service is based on SQA's established annual process. If a candidate is eligible for exceptional circumstances, then their centre will provide appropriate assessment evidence gathered during the course of the year and the SQA will review it against the national standard and award the appropriate grade. Once the exams have been completed and marked, the SQA will look at the outcomes through their standard processes to determine the 22 grade boundaries needed to achieve an A, B or C grade for that specific subject and level. Senior SQA appointees who are practising teachers or lecturers will take an expert decision based on a range of evidence. That includes the reflections of markers in the senior exam team as they mark and review a wide range of candidate exam scripts, estimates provided by centres and information such as the number of candidates entered and the number of centres presenting candidates for the course. The key focus will be to review how the course assessments worked this session as measured against the national standard. In recognition of the disruption that learners have faced over the past two years and the different assessment approaches applied, the approach to grading this year's exams will look to factor in the impact of the pandemic on learners. Those grade boundary decisions will be applied at a national level, individual local authority or school data will not be looked at and no algorithms will be used in the process. The expectation is that the overall outcomes in 2022 will represent an intermediary position between 2021 and pre-pandemic years. Once the results have been published, learners will have free direct access to appeal their result. The appeal service in 2022 acknowledges the particular challenges for learners this year. For this reason, as well as conducting a clerical check on exam scripts for each appeal, SQA appointees will review alternative assessment evidence that learners have completed through the year. That would be the same evidence as that used for an exam exceptional circumstances request. If, following the review of evidence, the SQA assesses that a higher grade has been achieved, then that will be awarded. If the review of evidence results in a lower grade than achieved in the exam, then the exam grade will stand. Delivery of this approach, which has the interests of our young people at its heart, will require the whole system to work together. SQA have agreed with the national qualifications group what SQA centres and learners need to do in the event that learners have not performed to the standard that is expected in their exam. The quality and children's rights impact assessments have been carried out and will be published in the coming weeks, alongside full detail and guidance on those measures. All of those measures underpin the 2022 exam diet, balancing the integrity, credibility of the qualifications against the on-going impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on learners. They will also give clarity and reassurance to learners with conditional and unconditional offers for colleges and universities. In addition to those measures by the SQA, I am clear that more is needed to support our young people in their learning. I have set out the measures that the SQA is taking, but there is, of course, an important role for local support to learners. Schools are best placed to support individual learners to catch up on their learning and have the best chance to demonstrate their potential. Our teachers have continued to work tirelessly throughout these challenging times to deliver for their learners, and I offer my heartfelt thanks to them and all the staff in our schools. To complement and enhance school-based support, Education Scotland continued to provide support for young people studying for qualifications through the national e-learning offer. Every learner in Scotland from ages 3 to 18 is able to access the national e-learning offer through the youth of Glow, our national schools internet, senior phase learners are accessing e-school support study webinars and resources. The e-school senior phase Easter study support programme last year was extremely popular and will be repeated this year, offering live webinars, covering more than 60 courses at a range of levels from national 4 to advanced higher. Building on existing provision, learners are also able to attend online evening revision classes in a range of courses throughout the term. Learners from all 32 local authorities have engaged with this study support. Measures are also being taken to target and engaged with groups of learners for this support, and additionally, e-school will be offering specialised targeted study support, being a referral from their headteacher for those young people who are considered to have been most impacted by Covid. Learners from all 32 local authorities have accessed over 1,850 west online school videos to support senior phase learning via Glow on their own local platforms. Over 21,000 unique users have already accessed those videos. To complement that, learners are also accessing developing the Young Workforce Live webinars and resources with over 40 different courses to choose from with over 16,000 learner attendancies to date. Working as part of the regional teams at Education Scotland, attainment advisers will continue to provide bespoke support to each local authority and in partnership with local authority officers to individual schools and clusters of schools. The support provided includes helping practitioners to make effective use of data and evidence to identify where young people require support and identify the actions that will have most impact. Each year, many schools provide easter study support provision to help learners preparing for their exams. Findings from an informal audit by Audit Scotland established that while some local authorities had a well-established offer, other local authorities chose not to deliver easter sessions. In October last year, I committed to boosting in-person easter study support provision. Scottish Government officials have been working with local government and others to agree distribution of a £4 million funding to increase support where appropriate, particularly from those from the most deprived backgrounds. It is anticipated that that funding will allow schools and colleges, or local authorities, through authority-wide initiatives, to offer targeted sessions for learners over the Easter break. Where an existing easter study offer already exists, that funding could allow schools or colleges to broaden that existing officer for targeted learners or, through promotion, encourage learners to attend existing sessions. In conclusion, the package of measures and support is designed to ensure that our learners are fully supported in their learning and preparations for the exams this year to help them to achieve and demonstrate their full potential and to have that recognised in their grades on the 9th of August. I hope that colleagues across Parliament can come together to welcome those measures and to recognise that that work confirms a very clear intention that exams will go ahead as planned. Thank you very much indeed, cabinet secretary. The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions after which we will need to move to the next item of business that will be helpful as ever if members who wish to ask a question could press the request-to-speak buttons or place an R in the chat function, and I call Megan Gallagher. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I thank the cabinet secretary for advance sight of her statement. Two weeks ago, the Scottish Conservatives called for this Government to commit to the 2022 examination diet to go ahead in full. Despite warm words from the cabinet secretary today, we are no further forward.  The Scottish Government is setting out its contingencies without releasing the equality in children's rights assessment, so that this can be fully scrutinised by Parliament. Recent reports have outlined that 80 per cent of pupils still do not have a digital device, despite the Scottish Government outlining its online support plans. In addition, many will feel that starting revision support in March will be far too late, especially for those who are catching up on lost schooling. Cabinet secretary, the Scottish Government has had two years to get this right, and we are heading for yet another disaster. Pupils and teachers deserve better than what is being offered today. Will the cabinet secretary release the impact assessment this afternoon? Ask the SQA to bring forward the revision support to start this sooner, and lastly, when will our young people finally receive their digital device, or is yet another broken promise by the Scottish National Party Government? I feel that we are having a bit of a groundhog day going around some of the discussions that we had last time. At the end of the Conservative debate, I am going to quote again from Sharon Dowie. I know that Mr Kerr did not like this when the First Minister said it, but I think that this is very important because it testifies where we are at. The safety of our children is the most paramount thing. Surely the member agrees, co-cab sure asked Sharon Dowie. No, I do not agree. That, I am afraid, is where we are at with this. It is shameful that she said that. It is our firm intention, of course, that exams will go ahead. Just like every single other member in the UK, we have a contingency if public health guidance does not allow for gatherings to take place. England, Wales and Northern Ireland have exactly the same contingency in place, but it is our firm intention that exams will go ahead. There is a very important reason why this has been discussed with the national qualifications group around the material that will be made available now and what will be made available in early March. That is to ensure that there is not a narrowing of learning and teaching that will negatively impact learners' breadth of course knowledge and understanding and will impact on the next steps of their learning. It is important at this stage that the learning will continue, but absolutely as we move closer to the revision phase, the full information will be made available to learners and to centres. As I said, there is also very ample information being published by the SQA today on the revision support. Michael Marra joins us remotely. The Labour benches send our best wishes to young people and staff who have been dealing with three years of unimaginable disruption. There is much to welcome in this statement, extraordinarily late, though it is. The cabinet secretary has finally listened to Labour demands for an appeal system that is free, takes into account exceptional circumstances and is based on no detriment. We set this position out last year and once again in Parliament just two weeks ago and that was rejected by the Government at that time. But the position that the Government took on appeals for the last two years is now untenable. There must be redress for the Government's errors. The statement also raises a number of questions. Will the appeals process be a right of direct appeal for pupils? Why must pupils and teachers wait an entire month from now for the guidance and support? On what needs assessed basis will Easter support money be allocated and what is the rationale behind the figure? Everything in this statement is dealing with the fact that young people have lost incredible amounts of learning during the course of the pandemic and continue to do so. That has to be addressed somewhere within our education system. It is unfathomable that the Government refuses to conduct serious research to measure the impact of lost learning and to develop a plan with the resources that match the scale of the challenge. Will the cabinet secretary now commit to doing so? There are a number of points here and I will try to get through them all, but there was a direct and free appeal last year to learners. If it was not clear in my statement, I will absolutely be happy to clarify to Michael Marra that the direct and free appeal is there this year as well. I responded about what the information that is being made available by the SQA is now in relation to revision support and early March and why that was. For the benefit of time, I will not go through that again. On the Easter support, that has been worked with our colleagues in COSLA. It was finally agreed COSLA leaders last week, hence our ability to announce that this week. The details of how much we will be going to each local authority has not yet been determined, but I am happy to provide that to Mr Marra and to other members when that is available. The impact on learners has been made very clear, for example in the most recent AFL stats that have come out that have been discussed in Parliament already. Government will keep a very close eye on that as we continue to collect data on that. It is understandable that students and staff may be anxious about exams and need assurances that the process will be fair and see the results awarded that are reflective of their hard work. I would like to ask the cabinet secretary what extra steps the SQA has taken to ensure that the appeals process takes account of the disruption that has been caused to learners. Of course, there have been many other modifications that have also been made before we get to the appeals part of the process in terms of coursework and revision support, but when it comes to appeal, I think that the approach goes further than in recent pre-pandemic years. It builds on the approach that has been undertaken historically, but as well as, as I said in my opening statement, conducting a clerical check on exam script, SQA appointees will review that alternative assessment evidence that learners have completed through that year, and that would be the same evidence that is used in the exam exceptional circumstances. That is a very important reassurance that I hope that we can give to learners that the SQA has looked very seriously at this and has consulted widely with the national qualifications 22 group on what more could be done. I think that that does account for the disruption caused to learners during the appeals process. Given the possibility that a large number of pupils that are normal will be subject to the exceptional circumstances approach, can the cabinet secretary confirm that pupils who are forced to miss exams due to Covid will not be subject to the same unfair grading system that has failed pupils in the past two years in a row? Set out in my statement, the exceptional circumstances service will be available to learners that have missed their exam, including during Covid. There is an established SQA process for this, but this year the centre will provide appropriate assessment evidence that has been gathered during the year, and that will be assessed against the national standard and awarded with the appropriate grade. James Dornan, who joins us remotely to be followed by Martin Macleod. I welcome the cabinet secretary's statement, particularly the fact that the SQA will recognise the disruption caused to learners in its approach to grading exams this year. Can the cabinet secretary reiterate her comment for the assurance of those learners that the results will be based on the results of their hard work and not on historical data or an algorithm? I can confirm that awarding meetings will take place for each individual subject after the exam has been held to ensure the standard and level of demand of the assessment at each grade boundary is appropriate. The panel of subject experts that will do that are teachers and lecturers, practicing teachers and lecturers. There is a recognition that learners have faced disruption over this year, but it is absolutely clear that, as I said in the statement, that this is based on national data. We will not consider individual local authority centre on individual learner data, and there will be no algorithms that will be applied as part of that process in Scotland. I am grateful, Presiding Officer. It is a shame that, five minutes before the cabinet secretary rose to her feet, the statement was indeed being discussed on the internet following an SQA press release, but, to turn to the statement for which I thank the cabinet secretary, much discussion has been had about the data that has been used to reach this decision within the SQA. Could the cabinet secretary confirm that the data that has been used will be identified and published and the rationale that the SQA has reached to change their position, my apologies, from only two weeks ago, was arrived at? As the member is aware, SQA is independent from Government, and I am certainly not responsible for the timing of SQA press releases that they go up on their website, but I note his comment on that. The rationale for all of the decisions has been one that has been went through with the national qualifications 22 group in great detail. There has been a great deal of discussion with stakeholders. There have been varying views on some parts of this as we have went through the process, but I hope that the chamber will agree that the SQA has recognised the disruption to learning and has acted accordingly. Of course, the rationale behind that has been set out for their discussions around teacher and pupil absences. However, also, the direct feedback that has come from pupils representatives and parents representatives and from the teaching unions on the national qualifications group about the disruption to learning so that, even if schools have remained open, they have been cognisant of that direct feedback about the impact, as well as looking specifically at the data. I hope that that gives Mr Woutpool some reassurances about the rationale behind the decisions. Emma Harper has taken the decision to move to scenario 2, providing support to learners to aid them with a preparation for exams, with full details provided in early March. Can the cabinet secretary outline what learners can expect in March? As I mentioned in my statement, there have been already significant modifications to courses and assessments that have been made by the SQA to take account of disruption for learning. The revision support will complement those modifications, but it will, of course, vary across subjects and levels. In some courses, for example, the SQA will advise learners which topics or context or content will or will not be assessed in the exam to allow learners to focus their revision on what will be there. For some courses, this additional information has already been provided. For other courses, the SQA will provide study guides with hints and tips to help learners to prepare for their exams. A small number of courses will have study guides that learners can take into the exam where appropriate, but full details for this and for how it will impact on each topic at each level will be provided on the SQA website. The education secretary has been slow footed on moving to scenario 2, which has been abundantly clear, was necessary for weeks. As some pupils have had their learning repeatedly and excessively disrupted, why on earth do they have to wait until March to find out what the guidance is for the exams? The decision to move to scenario 2 was one for the SQA. The board met at the end of last week and the decision has been announced this week with my statement to Parliament and obviously the SQA's publicity with two centres as well. It is very important that the SQA has went around this with due consideration of the data and very importantly with the consideration and discussion with stakeholders. That is exactly what members in the past have asked for. The Scottish Government has already announced an enhanced Easter study support offer for learners, especially important for those from deprived backgrounds, as well as a specific £4 million cash commitment. Families in my constituency will be keen to know what that will entail as early as possible. What more information can the cabinet secretary provide at this stage? My apologies, Presiding Officer. Mr Doris was remarkably quiet unusually during that, but I think that I got the gist of the question around Easter study. Of course, what will be delivered is for local authorities. As I mentioned during my statement, many local authorities already have a well-established Easter support provision. Others perhaps will look to enhance that in different ways. I am sure that each council will be able to deliver further details on that to members of the Scottish Parliament. As they can now work up their proposals on that, now that the decision has been made through COSLA and announced by the Scottish Government, I hope that that will ensure that greater support will be provided to many people, particularly from those from the deprived backgrounds, those with additional support needs or, indeed, those who have suffered particularly difficult times during this year because of Covid-19. The improvements to the appeals process in particular bring this year's system far closer to respecting the rights of young people than in previous years. I certainly welcome that. What options for appeal will be for the young people who have been unable to complete 100 per cent of the coursework that is being required at present by the SQA? As I said in my statement, if an individual would like to go forward for an appeal, of course, they are encouraged to discuss that with their centre in the first instance, but it is a direct appeal that they can make. The evidence that has been built over that year can then be given to the SQA to be looked at. There are not specific requirements as part of that appeal process. The evidence that has been gathered will be what can go in for that. I hope that that gives Mr Greer some reassurance around that point that we are keen—the SQA is keen—to make that as flexible as can be possibly made. I spoke to a teacher recently who informed me that one out of 10 pupils in that school had been referred to CAMHS with uncertainty over exams being a significant factor. Does the cabinet secretary recognise that the continuing uncertainty from the Scottish Government is affecting the health of our children and what can the Scottish Government do to support pupils trying to take exams under the cloud of poor mental health? Certainly, it is the Government's firm intention that exams will go ahead this year. That is exactly what the whole education system is working towards. The statement went into great detail into what is being provided by the SQA, Education Scotland and other parts of the education system. The additional investment and support that has gone in to supporting young people, for example, through councillors in every secondary school, and the additional support that has gone in to CAMHS, given the particular impact that the pandemic has had on young people. I welcome that the SQA will provide additional study support for learners in March. Can the cabinet secretary please outline how that will complement the wider support package that has been put in place, including coursework assessment modifications and online learning resources? The member raises a very important point that, although much of the statement was focused on the SQA and much of the coverages about what happens in the SQA, there is a great deal of work that is going on in other parts of the education system to support our young people. I have mentioned, again, the work from the e-school, the west online school and others. Of course, the work that goes on day and week out from our schools and local authorities to support our young people. That, together, is a sound package to support young people at this very difficult time. There is nothing in the statement about securing additional appropriate settings for exams. If distancing is going to be an on-going concern, what is the cabinet secretary doing to see that additional space is available to allow exam conditions to be satisfied in a controlled and managed way? There is nothing in the statement because this has been discussed at length in the national qualifications 22 group. It has not been deemed as our stakeholders as an issue of concern, given the distancing measures that are in place during the exam setting. Of course, the SQA will continue to have those discussions with stakeholders, and if stakeholders see that as an area of concern, they would act on that. Thank you, cabinet secretary. That concludes the statement. It is time to move on.