And we are live I'm Anthony Johnson founder of 21 studios and the 21 convention today. I have the red man group here on 21 live I have Rola Tomasi from the rational male an alumni speaker of the 21 convention I have Ryan stone from married red pill also an alumni speaker of the 21 convention He also disappeared nice back Donovan sharp from the sharp reality and upcoming speaker a little surprise for you guys this year at the 21 convention and Carl from black label logic or Carlos in this case Excellent rep they'll blogger one of the best gentlemen. Thanks for joining me today Yeah, good to be here. Hey, yeah, thanks for having us good Hell yeah, I also wanted to make a point that Andrew the private man his death anniversary the anniversary of his death was to the day about third couple days ago and I think you'd be joining us on this podcast today if he was here So I think he's here in spirit and a lot of you guys knew him and have We're very familiar with his work and we might incorporate that a little bit later into this today's episode Before we continue as well I want to touch base with you each of you and see what you guys have going on. What's what's new in your work? What's new in life? Rollo. Well, I turned 50 on Monday There it is It's just boyish good books, right? Anyways, I've just been doing a lot of actually I've been doing a lot of work with my real life my real life work and sort of getting myself getting myself in order as far as What I blogged about this not too long ago but I think I'm thinking I might devote a little bit more time to to being Rolla Tomasi, you know to my writing and to doing stuff like this and to Making myself a little bit more available to people You know when you when you get to when you get to 50 and I hate to age myself But it's like when you get to that age It's like you you you realize that you maybe you've got you know, what have I got 20 years left? I'm open for 25 Let's just say this I mean in that time in that time you really kind of have to decide what it is And what what you want your legacy kind of to be and I really kind of see this as my legacy, so Working on the book working on book four right now. I've expanded the scope of book four a little bit more I'm working with So we've got a good, you know But the book I'm working on is really the red pill from a religious standpoint And I just keep getting so much positive feedback on it right now that That I have to do it. It's just something I've got to get done And so I've got I've got three guys from Dalrox blog that are helping me out I've got a Jewish guy that's helping me out and now as I was telling you before we went on I've got a I've got a Muslim guy that's helping me out as well It's really kind of wow is sort of this cross You know how it how You know, I was gonna say how the feminine imperative and how the things that I write about affect religion and how Religion used to be a buffer against hypergamy and there's there's just so much To to really you know, it's when I when I took it on I'm like I really want to help these poor You know beta Christian saps, you know I really want to help these guys out because they're they get and run through the ring or by By not only their religion but by women and by feminism that has sort of assimilated their religion That was really my my first intent. But as I got deeper into it. I'm like This is this needs to be a bigger book. This needs to be a more comprehensive book because You know, I would hate to just just focus on on one side of the red pill in religion and then have to write like three more books to cover the rest of the The the the religions and the factions that I franchises. I guess that I didn't that didn't hit in that book So for the guys who are uninitiated feminism doesn't discriminate by religion every religion And I think what's interesting is it's it's especially It's especially feminism is especially toxic to religious institutions. I think because what it does is it ends up assimilating that religion and It takes the the fundamental First of all, it starts by getting into the into the culture So it gets into the you know, the religious culture the church culture, whatever you want to call it culture And then from there, uh, you have the religious leaders start catering to the the whims of Feminized men and they just They go from there because it ends up becoming a Business model for them And if they they find later that if they don't start appeasing to the feminine element within their churches Then they they don't have a church anymore because that's really what they're Their their business and a profit profit model operates on and so from there it goes from from the From the cultural side of things to this to the doctrinal side of things and then from the doctrine It infests the faith and the actual fundamental principles of the religion I mean, I'm I'm reading these these essays and stuff right now about how they want to gender neutralize christianity right now I mean a historically Patriarchal religion. I mean really all the abrahamic religions are pretty much patriarchal, but They're essentially focusing. I mean christianity was easy christianity was an easy mark for feminism It's the other ones that are just taking a little bit more time to to become assimilated, but And that's why I wanted to get to hit all of these all these guys You know different people once once people once guys started hearing I was writing something about like a red pill book about religion That's when I had all these other guys saying yeah, well, I'm a Mormon and here's why here's what I see going on And then I I'm a jovis witness and here's what I see going on and I'm a jew and here's what I see You know, yeah, I'd be actually really curious to hear what tanner gussie has to say on something like that From this perspective, we'll definitely be on the list of people to talk to you know when I'm doing interviews for this But this is going to be a really comprehensive book. It's it's it's become it's starting to Really grow beyond my own, you know initial ideas for it.  Yep, ryan. What do you got going on man? What's new in life? honestly, it's Nothing so fancy things don't change for me weekly by weekly Just got a slog. It's like an 80s montage minus the progressive rock. I wish there was a fancy story with it I wish there was something uplifting but For most of us we kind of know most of the work you put in day in day out is not glamorous. It's just the slog I'll come up with a better story next time enjoying your 38. I recently discovered you were 38. I was surprised you look younger No idea what you're talking about A lot of that'll be a topic for today's show actually we'll hit later Exploitation. Oh, I'm good with it Donovan what you got going on man. What's new? Well, um, I turned 50 in 20 27 So that's going to be a long ways off for me Other than that, um, yeah, the show is still going strong Just got the formal invite from you to speak at the 21 convention and I do appreciate the opportunity to come and And be with you guys and experience that with you guys Um YouTube channel is growing strong. I'm almost at 10 000 subscribers Um, patreon seems to be doing well. Um, so yeah, my following is growing and And um, I tell people I tell people this all the time. I didn't when I first started You know, everybody knows my beginnings was that return of kings I was only right in one article a week for ROK and I did that for two two and a half years And then I decided to branch off into other stuff. I never thought that it would get this big I never thought that what I do could could support me financially But it has so so things are going real well. And um, you know, here's to another 10 000 subs Hell yeah Carl what's new man? Well, I put out another blog post. I've kind of been doing a series Based on these podcasts where I try to get a little bit more practical with my writing because a lot of why I write is very Abstract or in a very aggregate level so it's um Can be difficult to connect with for a lot of guys So you had a guy tell me that you know, I think it was actually Ryan who said, you know I've been reading you for six months and I feel like I'm just starting to be able to understand what you're writing So I've been doing something did three posts so far. I started with The idea of learning the basics first and not thinking that you can jump right into advanced materials right off the backs I did one post on the idea of yes No, and maybe girls that a lot of game and especially early game is based around the concept of taking a no girl and making her an enthusiastic yes girl instead of Just figuring out. Okay. She's a no girl. I'll go and find another target that will be less work and the last one I did this week was about the idea of differentiation advice and basic advice in that there are certain Prescriptive advice that's useful for for all of us like lift weights go read Tanner's book and get your style on points Stop getting two dollar haircuts and those type of practical down-to-earth things that will fix a lot of your basic sexual market value problems, but then there is the What makes you special in the marketplace? What sets you apart and that has to be something authentic and real about you Like I used the example of mystery the reason why he used magic is that he was a street magician And a lot of guys when they adopted magic it was just okay mystery is doing it I should do it, but the reason why it worked for him was that he was actually a magician So I'm hoping to continue on with these series. It's kind of it's getting interesting to try and be a little bit more Practical with the advice instead of living up in the clouds most of the time Cool All right, let's uh, let's move on a little bit here And before we do actually, uh, I want to make you guys for those of you watching you can actually text questions today while you're watching You can also type in the youtube chat, but if you don't do that you can text them to Well, if you're in america, it's just two five six seven nine two t 21c Which is also a two one two at the end there If you're outside of america put a plus one in front of it and then two five six seven nine two eight two one two So you can actually text your questions I'll get them live and actually put them right on the air for you You should also text the question itself try to keep it short and simple And then give us a name first name and on this name whatever you want And I appreciate the questions guys. We'll get to him at some point in the show Both by text and on youtube chat Thanks for the super chat as well. Miami jay Moving on with topics there was a uh I don't want to spend like we discussed a huge amount of time on this But I think we should address it given our history of doing so in the past or recently on the show There was a recent shooting by a woman at youtube headquarters in california And this is something we talked about in private. I know with me and rollo, and then uh Maybe a few others as well that at some point there would be like a modern again, uh shooting by a woman Or mass shooting like that So I wanted to open the floor on that today and hear what you guys thoughts are on that Particularly with how the media is currently and will continue to spin it away from women away from any kind of Any even the slightest criticism of female nature and the way women operate and they'll spin it against potentially men in this case and masculinity Which is what they're always historically proud to do recently Yeah, I'll go I'll go first on this one. Um, I think that I think the youtube shooting Is I think it is the quintessential example of women not being able to handle real-world consequences for their actions Women in this country in this part of the world for that matter They get away with all kinds of shenanigans. They get away with paternity fraud. They get away with stealing being violent I mean, I I don't even have to go the the list goes on and on Women always want credit for masculine traits masculine accomplishment They want the accolades. They want to be seen as leaders. They want they want all the glory But they're not prepared to pay any of the costs I'm sure all of us in here have been subject to the long arm of the internet laws If especially, you know on on other platforms, I was recently just banned off of twitter All a woman has to do is Is whine and cry to whatever mods or the powers that be and we get completely removed Meanwhile, women can do well not quite literally anymore They can do pretty much anything they want say anything they want to anybody on the internet in any way shape or form And they get to skate scot-free They're this is just how it works. So this woman who was who was an animal rights activist She was showing videos of stolen animals being cooked alive being skinned alive She was supposed to be some vegan basically.  It's protected by the first amendment So if she wants to show that kind of stuff, okay, whatever. I'm not here to judge whether or not that's the case or not but Women are so used to getting away with everything the minute they don't the minute they even get their hand slapped They go absolutely crazy. Well, here wasn't a hand slap.  She goes and shoots up the place and kills herself Again demonstrating that women are not used to being punished. They're not used to being held responsible Or being held accountable and I think that the youtube shooting is the quintessential example of this axiom in action I think what you're gonna what you're gonna see is there's going to be uh If I were a woman and I was listening to this I would my the refutation is always going to be well She was crazy. She lost her mind.  So it's not because she was a woman It's because she was nuts And I think to that I would say well, you know, if it were a guy who was doing this if we if we were looking at I've made this comparison already on twitter. So I'll make it again I think that this is finally the the progressive You know the progressive a postmodern left Elliott rogers moment And I think that she is a parallel or an analogy to the elliot rogers thing but when And what she did was terrible and what he did was terrible as well But once we move past that we have to really look at how our Centric, you know feminine primary social order handles A shooting Like this and then handles a shooting like elliot rogers. Okay, so we have and I said this, you know once I figured out It was a female shooter I realized that they're you know as soon as a shooting like this comes out everybody's going to make their speculations They're going to say oh, it was another white man. Oh, it was another A kid or you know and comedian uh, Mike and Ian black or Michael Ian black Yes, he started popping off again like almost immediately.  It's right. Yeah, honestly, if you didn't do it He did he probably wouldn't even know what vagina smelled like.   You know fit female only phenomenon that happens around these guys You know, let's be uh, let's pause and be really specific too This is women being openly attracted in public to severely antisocial behavior to the point of murder and violence Right, you know, it's funny is like I I always get into this argument with with a lot of my my female followers I say well, it's not just women.   It is only freaking women. You never see You know teenage fan clubs go up around convicted, you know female felons There's nothing there's nothing like that. And when you look at the there's actually a scientific name for it. I just saw it Uh Printed somewhere somebody published it, but I'll I'll dig it up. There's actually a a what's supposed to be like some kind of Like psychological diagnosis for this. I'm like, no, this is Is it similar to Stockholm or is it like some sort of more version of something like that? And I'm sure somebody in the chat will bring it up. But there's a actual scientific designation for women who find You know murderous men convicted and you know incarcerated men Attractive. I mean they have to separate female Prison officers from the male population because they're it happens so regularly that they'll help them escape or they'll You know, they'll be part of their love triangles in the in prison or something because they want to be a part of that Yeah, and then we you know, I've I've already talked about this before as well. We got The fbi agent who fell in love with the isis. Uh, we uh, we got the word Yeah, hiberstaphilia Yes, hiberstaphilia Yeah, and it's it's this Un people say it's some unnatural traction. I don't think so honestly I think that this is part of women's, you know, evolved mental firmware to be attracted to Men who are violent who could be violent because that you see I mean back in our evolutionary past That was a Demonstration of higher value is to kill off the motherfucker next to you So, uh, but anyways, I just I just want to get back to the to the shooter here.  I mean she she could buy a gun She's 38 years old for christ sake um, and So the only thing that's left is is really picking her apart as a woman or to use this as some rare rarefied instance when a woman actually was a mass shooter or was at least designated as a mass shooter And so they use that as an occasion to To say look, well, this is unusual because usually it's men So let's all talk about men and let's redirect the the narrative and the messaging And our focus away from this woman and let's move it on to men again And that's exactly what I predicted that they would do.   Yeah, it's like it's like it's like she's max head Anyone under 40 years old I don't even know what the what the references 15 minutes into the future Carl did did you want to hop in or roller did you have more dad?  And immediately immediately. Yeah immediately. It's not like a few months from now Like they're looking back on it. It's like instantaneously.  Carl you want to hop in? Yeah, I wanted to talk about two things first on the men women being attracted to dangerous men I did two blog posts on that In relation to Jordan Peterson, but it's actually very interesting to me that a guy like Ted Bundy Who killed and raped and mutilated something like 32 women that he admits to He gets love letters and make a picture sent to him in jail There isn't a man out there who's swiping right on lorraine above it.  She finally lashed out against an innocent target Target and it was just a misplaced aggression. I mean this poor girl I mean if only could have caught her and helped her earlier, can you imagine how many lives we would have saved? Yeah, it's amazing the only life too. She killed was her own This is kind of the other guy. I mean the people are in serious condition. They got shot by her, but They're just kind of interesting that the only person that died was her so far Yeah Even when it comes to mass shootings men do it better Yes, right Listen, even a teenage boy. This girl is 38, right? Nicholas Cruz is what 17 just had a diapers He I don't know how many people that he killed 15 17 people Yeah, right Yeah, but that's called that counter strike practice. He's been playing first person shooters. Oh, they're in their life The video games made him do it Uh See donovan did you want to hop in? Yeah, um women um someone asked Rolo in the chat. They said well, why do women like men who are in prison? And I think the greater question is is we're you know, we're talking about the whole Nicholas Cruz in the 10 Ted Bundy for the record. I think it was a pretty good-looking guy. So that also helped as well Women are attracted to violent men and it's not that they're attracted to the violence But you think about it this way If you are if you are a violent man or if you are perceived to be a violent man In this day and age that is equated with masculinity. Whether it's toxic toxic masculinity I'm using air quotes for those watching or not. It doesn't matter.   I was fat. I looked completely harmless. I found the red pill I got some game. I started getting girls But and I got myself in the shape But here's what happened as soon as I started getting tattoos, right Soon I'm see this is how it works. I started getting tattoos I used to tell girls. I was harmless now when they asked. Yeah, I told them Yes, I've been arrested at least a dozen times and that's real guys. Have you ever been to jail? Yep Been the jail for a total of two weeks and they look at me shocked I do I've told girls that I have an anger problem that I'm an anger management No girl has ever said donovan I don't want to see you anymore because you've been arrested 13 times in your life has never ever happened It just in listen. It's not like I've put my hands on these girls but girls like the threat Violence volatility danger. They're so much more aroused than that and you can it's it's like the arousalist palpable. Oh my god You've been the jail. What was it like like relaxed like I didn't go to prison, right? Like I didn't I was never in fear of dropping the soap or anything like that But women are just aroused by violent men and it's not the violence they're attracted to It is the raw masculinity which is lacking in today's society. We've got soy boys running around anywhere Everywhere, but as soon as a man comes along who has even trace amounts of masculinity and it manifests itself in violence Then they start throwing themselves at these people because they don't have it around them Nicholas cruz is never going to see the light of day But guess what he's dude girls are mailing his panties At mailing panties to him as he as we speak and if by some virtue of a miracle if he were to get out Guess what he'd be up to his eyeballs and pussy. George Zimmerman is another guy I remember the girl and I think I saw this on roissy site Rolo before he got arrested for killing Trayvon martin went to trial and all that his girlfriend was dumpy Soon as after the trial he was fat looked at a shape looked stressed out, dude He's dating a blonde with fake tits This is how it is women are attracted to violence. So that's and violence equates masculinity today Yeah, I I would definitely agree that I have um anybody who wants to look this up I've got and if they're not in the book actually I have um A post on it's called insanity plea and it's about exactly this about how women will will form their own fan clubs I mean they they they organize to To you know lift this guy up in jail I mean the guy I forget that I couldn't pronounce his name if I remembered it But the guy who is the the kid who was in boston bomber when that guy went into jail and his face was on the cover of rolling stone Oh my god, you're you're a hundred percent right. There's there's no way that guy's not getting late I mean if he was getting out if he wasn't going to be, you know killed in prison or he wasn't going to be, you know killed in capital punishment But you look at that guy, um, you look at uh, yeah, george zimmerman's a good good one too You know, it's the other thing I that here's here's another example Do you remember when uh, was it is it chris brown who beat up on rihanna?  You're right Uh, I I think that if if we want to go a little bit I agree 100 with with what donovan's saying here, but I think if we want to go a little bit deeper than that I and not to go all jordan peterson on you once again But uh, you know women hate harmless men they hate and despise heart, you know a guy who has no power over his environment women have a a genetically, you know dna written into their, you know mental firmware Desire to find competency in men and there's nothing more There's no more competent a man Then the guy who can kill his rivals and that has always been true for you know from the earliest ages from that You know because remember we're we're a species of you know, animal that has been evolved It right, you know, we've been we've been around in our present form for close to a hundred thousand years right now I mean grand we we have evolved but the things that make us attractive the the core uh, the core things like uh, for instance violence Violence in men that's always going to be seen as a A reliable Survival trait for women. I mean, maybe they're going to get beat up But at least they don't have to worry about you know having one tribe come in and take over their tribe So I think from an evolutionary standpoint. Yes, it makes sense that women would be attracted to violence So I've got one post called insanity plea the other one is actually called violence and I'll I'll relate a story that is in that post and I can remember one time I was doing some promotional work for uh, I don't know if you ever heard of it It was before ufc, but it was called king of the cage. I'm not sure if anybody remembers king of the cage I remember king of the cage. Yeah, it's basically ufc fighting and I can remember that when in uh I remember in nevada, it was very uh, it was illegal You couldn't do this kind of fighting you could not do ufc and it and there was all these groups that were protesting It's saying it's a blood sport. Oh my god. You can't believe where we've reached this level and right now It's it's funny because ufc has sort of replaced modern boxing to an extent. I mean You're you're more you know who connor McGregor is but can you tell me who the heavyweight champion of the world is right now? Yeah, there's actually something I should show you guys I don't know if you can see this Oh, it's backwards for you guys. So connor McGregor. It's got a rest. Actually, it's worse. Yeah. Yeah So it actually says there's a woman on facebook and it's a top comment on this post It's like a huge tmz post for this connor McGregor getting arrested the other day for like assault or you know Felony mission or something. Yeah her name. She says, uh, why does this make him hotter? I can't stand myself and it's got hundreds and hundreds of likes. Yes. Yeah, so So anyways, it was I was uh, I'm glad you brought that up But uh, I was putting together this event I was helping deal the promotion for the king of the cage event and all the women that were in in the advertising Uh department were just completely appalled that we were going to do this and we did it and it ended up becoming a really popular thing And even to this day, they still have it down in uh in downtown rino However, I can remember The the fact that these guys who would come in and they'd get their pictures taken and women would these same women Who are appalled by this violence were happy to run up and get their pictures taken with them And happy to just spawn all over them because they were in good shape and and they had a potential for violence And then what's funny is and later on during that Uh that incident or during that fight Uh later on, you know guys get liquored up and they're walking out in the in the parking lot And then you know, they've just been in a violent at a violent, uh, you know For lack of a better word violent entertainment and they decide that they want to beat each other up in the parking lot And the so the same ladies who are fawning all over these ufc fighters These king of the cage fighters are suddenly appalled once again because Uh, maybe one or two of their husbands gotten into a fist fight in the parking lot because they were drunk afterwards So I think they're Contextual thing that goes along with that too, but I think definitely I put a potential for violence in a man Even if it's like you were just saying, uh, if you've got if you have that tough guy ufc Look if you have tats if you have something that that makes you look like you have the potential for violence Or you just look pissed off.  Don't become an asshole But certainly, you know for the love of god, please harness the energy of the Harness the energy of a harmful man because that's that's what we get off on and that you know We say well, that's that's what arouses them what really attracts them fine You don't get to attraction until you get to arousal So you've got to you've got to at least foster the idea that you are a harmful man Or you have the potential to do harm to other people I've actually had plates in recent months actually bring this up specifically to me overtly That they feel this about me and it's like It's interesting to hear from from a perspective like that for grill. You're begging And I've never hit a woman in my life and never will accept self-defense, but It's surreal to hear it.  This girl is it's it's very obvious.  They're all the same Yeah, and I I I get into it all the time with my like so my female reader I have some regular female readers who whenever something like this comes up like we're we're just talking about that fbi agent who Fell in love with this isis warlord and decided to you know, run away off from her her husband And oh, yeah, I lied to the middle east so that she could be this guy's basically his concubine And and the fbi picked her up and she was he was actually somebody she was supposed to be following But she ended up following falling in love with this guy and i'm like look If you think if you think the principles of hypergamy don't have Further reaching potential than just your personal relationships You're dead wrong because this is a matter of like national security And it's all based on this woman's, you know potential to just be like that and it's all about hypergamy at that stage But I get into these I get in these conflicts with these women who are my readers and they say well, it's not all women like that It's only oh only damage. Oh, here we go. Here we go.  So it's never it's never like, you know, oh, I would never do that I would never get hot for that guy You know, they I think it is a part of female nature that they just simply do not want to accept They don't want to Broadcast that you know privately they'll be happy to say. Oh, yeah I really get hot over connor McGregor and they get ashamed of the fact, but they they're not they're not denying it I mean, here's another thing to add on to what you're saying the reason Donovan hang on ryan. Did you want to hop in? Oh my bad. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Um, this is actually a boon to me Drinking coffee instead of scotch for once I'm gonna get a perspective Of evidence. Yeah, never give up Back to the youtube shooter thing A well-rounded perspective will give you frame into this Now, this is a it's a rare event And I can say with certainty that none of us not rolo not me not donovan not carl not anybody reading this Is ever going to run into a situation where a chick pulls out a gun on them So why do we care and it's because of perspective So the worst thing you can do right now is listen to the media narrative and rolo and donovan hundred percent right Everything they talk about swings it to men being shit. So you're gonna get one of two things You're gonna end up following the mig tau second wave role of getting angry because women aren't held to higher standard It's kind of a bit of a it's a bad.    He loved And there was another chick her name is anna mendieta. I think i'm pronouncing it right She was a murderer too and it gave their art gravity now the reason i'm delving into art here for this is because you realize this thing is rare And It gives you a perspective and for these things. They're so rare. You kind of have to go into history to find the perspective on it So then you realize everybody's right. Yeah, this is extreme woman behavior. It's amped up to 12 So when you kind of understand where it comes from you can dial it back to what an average girl is going to be Like maybe a six or a seven or if you're lucky a four So it's like you train hard you train harder than how you compete I think anybody here's done any mma has known this you you train If you have a five minute match in your competition, you train a seven minutes So that way by the time the five minute comes out you're perfectly prepared So these points are all right. They're all valid And by having that certain perspective and being ready for the girls that are amped to 12 it It gives you the power to set your own frame And to handle things that come up in your life using these rare outliers as a use They're useful for you now.    This is why they try so hard to be different This is why they go to such extremes to just be different people.  Yes, you would but I get it You're trying to be different.  She's blonde.  I'm only attracted to sophisticated females dude.  Don't want to hear it Now ryan actually made a really good point which leads me to like the um, uh, I guess artists in particular Artists really good artists have to have some sort of shit with them Mozart was great because he was addicted to opium Rock stars were great. Janice Joplin, jimmy hindricks, kurt cobain all these All these people who died at 27 They were great because it was because you know, they had personal strife personal drama drugs This is what made them great mnn that dude m&m is probably dude.  That's why he's great I guess to shift it to another gear the reason why tupac and biggie are more or less canonized by the hip hop community Is because they were both cut down in their primes And so I think that strife and the legend and the story behind some of these artists I think gives a little bit more gravitas. I don't know if that's the word that ryan used Right gives a little bit more gravitas to there are so I would certainly agree with that Oh stepping some of the chat. Let's uh, let's uh, let's shift gears actually guys and hip hop into some questions We have from the audience. Oh We've had several coming through on the chat. Let's go. Let's do the text that we've for the first time today We're doing great So we'll go through I think maybe a make an announcement here So I I don't know if you guys wanted to discuss this, you know beforehand But I'm really wanting to do a live call in at some point. I really like to get some live callings going on here Whether you you host that or I host that or whatever, but we're working on it I definitely want to include that as part of this show I didn't even think the show was going to end up being, you know, what it is today And now it just sort of snowballed into yeah This is super badass 100 in the same page and I think in the coming weeks We will get that going either on my end or your end or something like that I'm moving actually next weekend into the 21 studios a new home the new house Is it dedicated to the company? It's a back game guys. It's the back game. It's it's 21 studios global command actually 21 Secret location. Oh, yeah, we go to assess. We're gonna pull on the we'll pull on the statue, right? Like this one used to do and then the book. Oh, yeah Yep, there you go. Oh, did we get socrates already set it up all the all the technique of the statue It's gonna be super badass. Yes But it's gonna give me the ability to It's gonna give me a much better ability to have more equipment and more uh things like that going on And a much higher internet speed as well so you can dual stream this Do you are this channel and riches channel at the same time? Which would be super badass? Hell, yeah, it'll be 200 and something thousand subscribers As for the question system, it's a little bit long but not too bad He doesn't give a name But he says I have trouble playing the game.  That's a hundred percent of the problem.  No, you don't try and if you do feel guilty trust me Whatever your name is that's gonna pass At some point you're gonna have to be congruent So I wouldn't necessarily use the term fake it till you make it But keep practicing those same strategies until it becomes second nature to you And then you won't feel quite so guilty because it'll be who you are Well, here's a question. Maybe rollo and ryan can hit on Would paper alpha be a stepping stone in a fakity make it sense to internalizing alpha behaviors Or is that the wrong way to put it? Well, that's exactly what I was That's exactly what I was gonna get into is when I this is a very common problem I especially for guys who are just sort of Coming Into the game or they're just like maybe they decided that they wanted to start going to a pickup artist seminar Or they wanted to you know, I think they realize that there's something lacking in their lives and that's usually, you know Dealing with women or having a having a girlfriend and these are the guys that will learn games So just so they can go get a girlfriend and they just want to learn the you know by rote memorization All the right things to say and all the way to to ape You know the right behaviors in order to to get the girl, right? But then they realize that they're they're being somebody that they're not or they they realize that they they They can't float the lie You know anymore because they think that that's just who they are and I think that that Really needs to be addressed before you even start. Well, maybe at that Maybe at the same time but before you even start getting into The pickup artist material and how you know how things work for you because like I think uh ryan was saying is that it's just uh You're too much inside your own head because you think that that is fake and you you're not really You you're not internalizing the red pill.   I say look, you know Uh personality, uh is not static. It's not something that is just you know, you got it in your set for life I mean if you think that personality is static and ask any guy who's any You know veteran returning home from an active combat situation who has PTSD and you ask him if he's the same person Because I'll tell you right now. He's not that same person And there are ways that we change our personality and I mean, there's still fundamental parts of ourselves that that don't change but If you want to change your personality, don't don't think for a second that it's it's something that's you know Completely immutable because you can do that But I think that what it is the guy thinks he's being dishonest with himself He thinks he's being dishonest and I think that when guys get into this situation that dishonesty Makes them feel as if as if they're not As if they're you know on a core base level, uh, just you know dishonest, you know brokers of the truth I guess so I definitely you need to you need to internalize it.  I think I both have some to add to it I'm assuming with ryan, but I think so He this the questioner did add some more context to it and another follow-up text He said also, how do you thrive in like a bay area progressive left very wealthy feminist centered intellectuals? Because that's who I deal with on a daily basis How do I thrive in that atmosphere and remain sincere?  And that's what a paper alpha is.   It's like a bigger rejection than just saying a girl won't sleep with you What this does is it protects you from that in the sense that oh, you're not really an alpha male My god, I never said I was an alpha male. I just am having fun here Like you see what I mean it it doesn't You're worried that people will not think you are what you want to be But you're not trying to be anything in particular.  Yeah, and my frame is well You don't think I'm a man. That's your business do what you want And it's how I got into pua the first time was because It wasn't because I didn't I wanted to be more of a man I mean I was in the military like they give you that award already Um, I was just bored with dating and it was too much of a slog So I gamified it so instead of thinking will this girl validate me will sleep with me It was well, let's work on this approach And let's tweak this and let's tweak that and it became fun And I honestly think you're gonna have more fun if you treat it like that Being from the bay area.  That loved to party or my redneck town.  I love it Yeah, is that what I'm gonna say like With the like a lot of guys i'm kind of obsessed with Self-improvement, but what happens when you change yourself and that's what you do when you do self-improvement Is that it actually takes time for your brain to catch up with everything else? like One guy at my old gym. This guy was like 260 probably about 64 and he had a power lifting total of about 1.4k or something like that ridiculous and this guy actually thought of himself as being tiny and The whole thing with it was in his mind when he looked in the mirror He still saw that skinny nerdy was when he was 15 because he hadn't updated his mind And the same thing happens with a lot of guys who have been pushovers for instance when they start to enforce their boundaries They cannot identify themselves as someone who would enforce boundaries So whenever they enforce a boundary, it doesn't fit with the image they have themselves Same thing when like anyone who's ever gotten a degree in something for instance You meet your professor 20 years later You'll still treat him as professor even if you've surpassed anything that person ever did Because that's the role they had in your life and Actually taking the time to update yourself image From you know, this guy here is the guy who's not getting laid is by the cool job awesome Income he is in well an area that I wouldn't want to live in myself. I prefer my compound here, but There's a lot of cool things in his life from that text and There's no reason to be insecure if you're making money. You have a cool job and you're taking care of all your business You just have to update yourself image. His problem isn't his life. It's how he sees himself Hmm Donovan you want to hop in? Yeah, uh, just to piggyback off of um, what carlos was saying The show breaking bad. I'm sure everybody's heard about it great show um It was interesting erin paul's character jesse pinkman called walter what everybody called him walter wider heisenberg Jesse pinkman called him mr. White Dude, he was your chemistry teacher your biology teacher 10 15 years ago, but he still called him mr. White This is this is where men are sort of in that mold We're all we're all told that women are superior and they're this that and the other So we can never get out of I guess not calling our science teachers mr. White 10 15 years later This is why it's very important that carlos points out Yes, you have listen you have to you have to update yourself You have to reinvent yourself because if you don't change the way you see yourself Then other people aren't going to change the way they see you and then when you start acting like who you think is Somebody else your updated version of yourself You think that you're somehow putting on a facade when in actuality you're just improving Now with regards to men being pushovers I always say this when you've had enough you're going to change And unfortunately most men just don't know how to change you don't know how to you know find red pill awareness A lot of men out there say well, I don't want to play the game. I just want to find a woman I can trust and have babies. I'm not into playing games.  Yeah, roll them I was just gonna I was gonna springboard on the the end the tail end of this guy's uh question here If you're in if you're in a social circle that you think is like too liberal or too hippie and on god knows I I do enough gigs in the bay area that I know exactly what this guy's talking about but Me being the student of human nature that I am You will notice that even in the most progressive most You know post modernist liberal hippie-dippy social circles You will still see that as a sexual marketplace where the same rules apply So an alpha is still an alpha whether you are you know a member of antifa or you are a member of the alt right Okay, the the same The same principles apply from this, you know from hypergamy Across the board. That's one of the reasons I tell guys all the time It's not so much about you know what my focus is is less about politics and really and and you know social circle type stuff And more to do with the fact that it's universal so I like for instance, I'll I'll be at a at a gig in in San Francisco or somewhere around there and You know, if there's a if there's like a hippie vibe to it You can still see the guys who are the alphas in that hippie vibe and you can still see the guys who are just kind of You know pushed to the to the sidelines and the marginalized beta guys who just happen to be hippie betas, you know Or they happen to be hippie alphas or there's there's we know for as much as women want to say that they are My god, donovan probably knows this is you know up here in in Reno. We have the burning man festival Oh, yes. Oh, when that when that passes through here, it's real interesting when you see the you know Because I work gigs constantly or in an august when that happens and It's it's real interesting to see it's just this microcosm of the sexual marketplace but it's within the confines of an artistic kind of community or Liberals, yeah, yeah that that kind of things don't think for a second that that just because You're in that social circle that it doesn't apply to you. It does. It's just contextualized for that particular that social set Cool We have a few more questions here guys coming in Five text messages you got for me.  That's you know, just to you know, it's all about quality, dude There you go So one of the questions actually about the convention and uh, the questioner said are there exact dates yet for the 21 convention this year Is there a military veterans discount? Thanks for what you do So there's I have the dates narrowed down to two weekends in october It's the second weekend or third weekend in october and those will be announced soon So that's october 2018 for the 21 convention. That'll be our only event this year And uh, I do have one of mine for europe next year and they'll be making that announcement late this year early 2019 But for this year with dynamite sharp ryan stone roll of tamasi and many others And we're gonna get carl there someday too a ropeman Uh, that's going on this october second or third weekend and that means thursday through friday in those with those date ranges Military discount, uh, not yet. That's something I have considered and I will continue to consider it going forward Given that a number of our speakers are veterans and many attendees over the years We do have the father son discount going on this year And I'll be making more announcements on that as time goes on. Yeah, we already have a couple tickets sold to fathers and sons Yeah, that's very cool. Good Tickets will be on sales wall guys in about four or five six weeks We're closing in on it and soon as they get the exact dates. That's basically when we'll launch tickets So that's coming up Uh, we got a question from rule zero dad who I think I've seen on rule as a blog as a commenter. Is that something there? Zero what's going on brother? Okay, I figured sounds like someone knew let's say dad. So I figure there's probably a married red. Yeah I've seen I've seen him on reddit somewhere and then subreddits. So his question from rule zero dad is For the panel, I see the majority of inaction from men being based on a fear of rejection How should a man new to the red pill slash game?  He knew exactly what I was going to say. That's not a question Input on this. Yeah, I'll Yeah, just real quick. I think that I I completely agree with ryan if you have fear of rejection Not to go all self-improvement guru on this or or anything like that But they say to face your fear.  Well, guess what if you're afraid of rejection go get blown out Dude, go talk to girls with the intent on getting rejected An interesting thing happens with that dynamic when you go in with no expectations Which is what we which is what we teach in the red pill as far as game is concerned A lot of times you'll be you'll find yourself having more success Well, I was going to go get blown up by 50 girls today But somehow I ended up with seven phone numbers But even if that doesn't happen just like ryan said you have to keep you have to keep Doing it until it just becomes numb then when you roll up on a girl. Hi, my name is donovan Whoa donovan not I don't date black guys, right? And then I look at her. I wink. I said well not yet You don't listen.  No problem.  You don't even think about that because it's happened a hundred thousand times It's almost like the Thai kickboxers.  Don't say something you can't take back. Oh Anyway, show tiger tong po using his shin kicking the side of a palm tree And his his his shin was completely black and one of the guys is like dude, doesn't that hurt? No, it's numb.   That's how you get over the fear of rejection Oh, go ahead carl Back in the day when the pickup line who lies more men or women still works and I was getting into this for the first time Me and a group of buddies might actually made a game out of it get the most spectacular blowout of the evening and you drink for free that night And that would be like a group of like six seven guys It would be going out getting drunk And then going up and they would go up to women Just with the intent of getting blown out and the funny thing is a lot of good Openers came out of that because guys would just go up there and try to piss off a group of girls immediately And what happened was after a while you got so used to it that it didn't matter anymore I mean my favorite everything we did was we attended an anti-prostitution march with bat with a huge Tanner that said something like Yeah, no to prostitution. You should put out for free I agree Rollo. Well, I was just gonna say is I there's two areas that I think you probably should focus on The first one is understanding what your buffers are and what it is that is separating you from From from making those approaches and from from going out there and doing that Like I get a lot of guys will say well, you know, I got great text game, but I can't Uh, I can't approach a girl, you know live. I'm like, well, that's because that's your buffer Your buffer is is having something in between you and that fear of rejection really most buffers Like you probably read this in the first book. It was actually the chapter was buffers But there's there's a lot of different ones even pornography can be a buffer Online, you know dating can be a buffer tinder can be a buffer And drinking. Yeah can be a buffer Because what it is doing is it's insulate you get you think it is it is insulating you from that rejection because that that was what's so horrible and I think that One of the the fundamental rules that people that the guys need to learn when it comes to picking up women and really in life in general Is that um rejection is better than regret and you would rather you you should be Worried more about regretting something regretting not having made that approach than getting rejected by that approach Uh, so look at what your buffers are are you are you spending too much time? You know not communicating face to face. I I really I hate to harp too much on like instant messaging and Texting and all that kind of stuff. Oh do it because it's so many people do that But you have to understand what are you losing when you do that? You're losing so much more communication Like I'm looking at you guys right now and I can tell what your expressions are I can tell the intonation of your voice Uh, that's one of the reasons that like social media is such a bad medium to communicate in because you can't really convey sarcasm You can't really convey anger accurately unless you'd like typing in all caps, you know the or the or or these emojis, right?  Well, yeah, I agree with that But I don't think that game in particular is a numbers game too many people think that it's just like Well, you just go on you approach 100 girls and then you'll know you'll know how to do things Well, yeah, I get that but if you're approaching if you're basically spamming approaches And you're just hitting it over and over and over again I got this one kid who was showing you this video of how he was going and approaching these asian girls And he was just going approach approach approach right after he got blown out He go right onto the next one and I'm like, well, that's all you know fine and great But you're not really learning too much from that. You're just sort of you're learning how to get rejected And what I what I say is that yeah, it's definitely it's not a numbers game, but it is a consistency game And can we just can we just pause for a second that has to be the most epic quote so far I think of this Of today's episode Learning how to get rejected Yeah, you're learning exactly. Yeah It needs to be a consistency thing like there's so many guys that say I can't approach 100 girls Well, can you approach one girl every weekend and just one new girl every weekend?  Oh, thanks, rollo. Thanks for helping me out Appreciate it. Thanks a lot. I got it from here. Bye, you know, and then they're out and then two weeks later Yeah, exactly So I think consistency is is one thing and I think also Understanding what your buffers are before you even go out To to game and rid yourself of those buffers Well, I bring up the thing you said rollo with the you know Men are just teaching themselves how to get rejected because carlo or carlos brought up that I think he's suggesting here in the chat the private chat We have going on that rsd and other companies like that teach guys They're basically teaching guys not how to approach but how to get rejected Like how many times Stating it Okay.  I was like, okay, you know what?  What's the point of being number 16? It's kind of the same. It's kind of the same as sex, right? Like why be guy number 256 the fucker, right?  Like that. Yeah, they're hardly girls are people too. I mean come on And that's the thing you kind of learn a little bit about uh the different cultures get more well-rounded into you And then you can tailor it to your game So while 15 guys probably walked up to her and said she was beautiful and thin I can come up with something unique because I know her hang on guys Let's let's put this in context women are harmless, but we're also we're just talking about a woman who literally shot up youtube Well, here's the thing women are harmless within the context of And that's that's one of the that's one of the fears of rejection It's like I mean she can't do anything.   He just turned 50 a few days ago Congratulations. Happy birthday I'm coming up closing in on 30 and donovan. I think right now is 40 And uh, you know carl and ryan are obviously are ages somewhere in the 30s as well But specifically me rollo and donovan are all at the dawn of a new decade in our lives And are just completing one as well, obviously So let's kind of look at that and examine that from red pill lens Rolo's done this extensively on his blog Obviously, and I think carl's done some work with it as well But let's talk about it. Let's talk about 20s 30s 40s and 50s If we can get up to get up to the 50s with rollo. That's what he's facing now himself There's also many guys watching though. One of the questions actually was from a guy who was 59 that came He messaged into the text message things well So, you know to get the ticket uh to kick this off How should men As close as closely as we can approximate it. How should men be managing their lives under a red pill lens in their 20s? Should they be dating monogamously? Should they be getting married? Should they not should they be accumulating plates or what are the options on the table they should be looking at? It's fight settling without tooth and nail Yeah, right spin plates. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.  Hold on. We've got a troll rolling limbs 1012 says if rola was not married. He'd be in cell Do you know what I do for a living?   I just want to know why he's trying to get out here Be specific in your in your in your trolling. Listen man. This is the kind of guy that just This is the kind of guy The that that likes to go after the big guys here's something he says Here's the truth be good looking and have a little personality. That is all game has gone No, no game is not a con my friend.  So you know what?  Rollo. I don't I don't want to I'll I'll get on to the regular the real question here in a minute, but Uh, I think that first of all, I don't want to pigeonhole every migtail because every migtail is not like this guy No, you would not and I would not be migtail where I you know where I to find myself single tomorrow Trust me. I would probably kill myself because I would be out You know running game and doing as much as I possibly could because I have You know, I I I'd like to think that I have a pretty good grasp on intersectional dynamics So if I wanted to go out and get late, I can go do that.  Yeah, there's only one there's only one aspect of game and that's just It's just looks or it's just wealth or it's just Game like and you you gotta you gotta understand that the guys there's there's a lot of guys who want to say that Oh looks have nothing to do with it.  And then there's the guys who are like, no, no, man. Just just get in the gym and lift lift lift Are you lifting bro?  Yes, and you shouldn't skip leg day Did you learn? Yeah, should you learn pickup artistry? Yes Should you improve yourself so that you've got a good a good chunk of change and that you can be You know, you you can at least when when you have when you when you apply Amuse mastery Can you really pull that off or are you just bullshitting? And I can pull off amuse mastery.  So Yes, I I see this and I'll the other thing that I don't like about the The the migtail the the more militant I want to say the hard-line migtail because I I don't really think all migtails are the same but Is that they become non-competitive they're looking for an excuse they're looking for a way to Abandon and get away from their burden of performance And that you have to understand that these guys are making the same mistakes that the baby boomers and the guys Were who thought that they could do the same thing During, you know the the sexual revolution. They thought oh great now these women Are on birth control and we don't have to worry about it because it's all it's on the inside that counts We don't have to worry about Being good-looking we're having a lot of money because they're going to love us for our wonderful innate natures And we're going to get laid because that's how it is because it's the free love society And we don't have to worry about our burden of performance Well, guess what migtail you have to worry about your birth performance Even if you think you don't you you may not be living for women You may not they may not be the ones defining your manhood for you.   Just in a different way. Oh, yeah Yes, I think that it is I think it's very valuable one one thing I've noticed about guys like this about about uh About migtails like the more hard-line migtails is they tend to make their necessity their virtue So if they can't get laid or if they if they're not if they're not going to you know They don't want to put in the effort to go to the gym and build themselves up If they don't they think that any any self-improvement has the underlying You know latent purpose of getting laid and if they're doing that that oh, well, I'm not doing it for myself I'm doing it for you just to get laid. Well, no, you're not there's you can do stuff for yourself That also happens to get you laid You can improve yourself and have a better life and guess what a byproduct of that is women are going to find you attractive Did you do it for them? Did you do it for yourself? Hmm? That's called the crisis of motive and I got a Well, think about food like oh, you're just cooking because you want to eat.  Rollo. Let's get you take on men in the early 20s Well, I was you know, let's let's not get inside I think that I and I I have I I do counseling for guys who are in their 70s and I do counseling for guys who are for 15 years old right now So I run the gamut here and then I would also suggest that if you if this is a question that is sort of Bugging you or maybe you you're you just became unplugged yourself I would suggest and you know shame was plugged here But go read preventive medicine after you read the first book But preventive medicine it has a timeline in it and as to what a guy can expect from women at various ages of their maturity And I think it's important for guys to know that I wrote that book because I had so many guys saying Oh, well, I wish I'd have had this this information Before I got married or wish I had this information before I had kids or before I You know decided to do you know any number of different things because my life would be a different A different story if that were the case was that okay fine. I'll write you that book But I think that guys in their 20s definitely need to stay single I think they need to understand what how women prioritize Their attraction and their arousal, you know women who are in their peak sexual market value phase like right around 21 through 24 somewhere in there Understand what they're going through they're not going to be really interested There you'll find very few girls In that phase in that air in that age range who want to get married They just simply don't because they they have so much more going on for them, particularly if they're hot and attractive They the world is their fucking oyster at that point.  Oh my god. Oh my god. So 20s stay single do not even consider monogamy until you get to be about 30 years old And then once you get to be 30 years old to understand that your sexual market value peak is going to peak right around Your early to mid 30s and from there, I mean we could talk about You know 30s and 40s beyond that But I think it's important for guys to understand that their primary value when they're going to You know when a 20-year-old guy is going to have his most Be at his most selective when it comes to women is going to be when he has established himself because men must become Women just are okay So it's going to take you a lot longer to become the man who you're going to be Then it does for a hot girl who's just happened to come into her Into her own around 22 years old. Now roland, let me throw you a little bit of a curve ball here So we just we just outlined out exactly what you think and I I support and agree with what you just said But let's be a little bit more specific for the guys watching. Let's say a guy is 21 22 years old You know at the oldest in this case What if he found the red pill and all this stuff and he's listening to what you're saying and he's like Okay, I understand what you're saying. I do though want to start a family at some point in my life Will behaving in the way you've described and improving himself in these ways and spinning plates Is that still conducive to starting a family someday? And it's 30s or whatever it is because with every woman that you are Like I always say spin plates.  I should say Is going to help you understand the female nature because I didn't come into All of this, you know red pill knowledge because I got everything right I did it because I got it wrong and those guys who are going to be getting into those situations You're going to get it wrong and it's going to suck sometimes And you're going to get into some some bad situations because of bad decisions that you made But you're going to learn from those things. I hope you will learn from those things I mean don't get anybody pregnant, but uh, you know spinning spinning Yeah, exactly. Well spinning plates Like I said, I think too many people that I I've got like six different posts on on spinning plates that they're all in the first book But Women are naturally plate spinners.  I think men need to understand that they get a whole lot more selective than than they really are They always say women don't need to date. Yeah, they don't there are no dating coaches for women, right? Like there's no red. Oh my god. How do I sleep with hot guys just over 30 for 30 for 30 plus there are Yeah And you know what I'm gonna save them all a lot of money if you are 30 plus you want to know how to date high quality men Here's a cookbook and a treadmill. That'll be 1999 I say be pleasant We're all we're all the good man That's an interesting point though because uh You know, we don't have any there are there's no 21 convention for women because they don't care They don't they don't care about self. They don't have because they don't have to care about it Yeah, you will you won't find a red pill for women. That's why they come over and you know They want to be a part of the male red pill, you know male space But uh, you you don't see them getting together and saying how can we be better wives? How can we be better women for men? They there's there's there's no self-improvement That's even remotely like that for nothing organized anyways But uh, yeah, I think that that's staying single and and being not Let's say being non-exclusive You know keeping your options open that allows you to explore more things and not just Not just in the terms of women per se, but also in the choices that you can make in life So think of all that.  Yeah, I was just going to say that that's exactly what your advice is doing Is it's keeping them their options open until their value starts to really peak or even get close to peaking Someone actually just asked in the youtube chat and which obviously is the next stage in this What about your 30s? I'm myself 29. I'm pretty close to 30 at this point So I have the whole decade in front of me. Rollo. You obviously went through it and Donovan You just got out of it as well What about men hitting 30 30 1 32? Finding the red pill and now what they have in store for them or what's ahead of them Yeah, interestingly enough, that's when I found the red pill. I found the red pill at the age of 32 and In your 20s, you're you're not as you're not quite as intelligent in your 20s as you are in your 36 And i'm speaking I guess um as far as your earning potential Well, when I hit my 30s, I had more intelligence more sales experience than than I had ever had to that point And I was able to parlay that into a couple of just real cheap call center jobs because I I moved to las vegas Literally the 700 dollars in my pocket And you know, I had a got a call center job making 13 bucks an hour. I've always been a good steward with my money Um, I was able to save my money and you know make some pretty worthwhile investments And you know make some residual income off of that Well while that was happening again, I had I hit my peak I looks I look so like i'm 40 years old I look so much better now at 40 than I ever did when I was 25 26 Without a doubt and I look great. I actually I mean I look 40 I probably look like i'm about 35 36 at the oldest a lot of people don't believe that i'm 40 So I've looked like this. I don't know for the last 10 12 years.  You can still be physically attractive But not quite like at 45 you can still be attractive But you're not going to be as attractive at 45 as you are it as you are at 35 You're going to be more attractive at 35 than 25 and so on and so forth.  I've got time to burn. I've got energy to burn And i'm dude. I was dude running through chicks left and right And during during that time you learn a lot about women And i'm not going to go through the standard stuff, but here's what I would submit to men When you get really really good at sleeping with women when women start to find you attractive Their relationship status does not matter Hypergamy doesn't care about relationship status.   Yeah, you will absolutely I've been with my boyfriend for two and a half years.  Oh, I can't believe I got cheated on I'm gonna learn so much from this. Okay fair enough. You learn more about women being the guy she cheats with than being the guy she cheats on You you learn how you learn what they do how they act the lies they tell It I don't know for the life of me. Why is it why it is that girls tell me? Oh my god You won't believe the story I told my husband to come out here and see you they all it's like It's like they're the cat that ate the canary and they have to tell someone So what I would advise men to do in their 30s is Back your paper save your money make wise financial decisions. Dude.   But we as men are masculine hard drive.  Obviously, this is an issue that's going to affect guys in the 20s and 30s They're definitely going to be considering it Let's get some basic premise ideas out from particularly from ryan and rollo Who are both to my knowledge legally married? rollo in particular has been married for 20 21 years or something like that now So what do you guys think about marriage in the most basic sense for guys who are maybe new to the show? Is it a good idea? Can you get a prenup and fix it or any kind of problems for it? What are you guys thoughts? I'll go first then if you don't mind rollo. Yeah, go right ahead Canada's got some weird law where they found out people weren't getting married So they mandated it after cohabitation for Originally it was six months now.  There you go If she doesn't sell you like if she doesn't sell herself to you Then you're kind of denying her her version of a chase the same way as Anybody who's got any number of girls under their belt You know that time you go to the bar and a girl's throwing herself at you and you kind of don't want her Because it's like it misses that chase Well So yeah, just You should be fighting tooth and nail and she should be selling you on it and if she doesn't sell you on it I don't see why you why you want to fight for it She isn't trying to jump on your dick. Even when you're too tired, which if you are I don't know what to say about that Then back to Donovan's thing. He's right. You got to have that's why older is good because you have You're more aloof.  They can't help it. Yeah, and here's the thing At that point I didn't give a shit because I had a duty watch and if I didn't show up to work at 7 30 for work I was getting charged and probably thrown into like the barracks So my job was just I got to finish because it's 40 and I'm doing the math and how long it takes to get to work From here and then if I have a chance for yeah, I like The sanctity of fiance's and marriage was the furthest thing from my mind and the furthest thing from her mind and it's yeah You get a couple of those under your belt and it'll really silver you to the idea that You really need her to be going all in selling you on your commitment being valuable And as far as that yeah, I just don't I wouldn't I still I'm still very anti-marriage. I have it because it was like it's basically mandated So I make the best of it, but and it's a great girl or I wouldn't have even gone that far. Yeah, I wouldn't Don't let don't let jesus uh bully you into it. Yeah, that's good. Rollo.  Don't get married I have a fantastic wonderful marriage. I I wouldn't trade my wife for anything.  I love being with her I like, uh, you know the what I have built for myself immensely, but don't get married Only because in today's day and age particularly if you live in the united states I I can't speak for canada or other places But the industry of the marriage industry and divorce industry have fundamentally changed the nature of marriage Same-sex marriage has fundamentally changed the nature of marriage just marriage in general There's so many different reasons. I can give you why you shouldn't get married If you want it if you want if you're considering getting married and you think it's a it's a good idea Or you think that it's a your your religious duty Or if you think that and a lot of guys are ashamed this way But if you think that it'll make you a man or you you are in some way going to be You know bequeathed with the title of manhood because you got married think again and before you decide to get married Go watch this uh this documentary called divorce incorporated or it's divorce corp. I think it is Yeah, you can you can even watch it for free on on youtube here. Um It's uh, it will open your eyes to why exactly I am saying do not get married right now Because there's no there's no advantage for man to get married that he cannot get while single Yeah, I wanted to the exception the only exception to that is I would say in in child rearing and I really believe that if you want to have kids That would be my only reasoning for for getting married But even as even if that's your reasoning remember those kids are never yours They were always going to be your wives because once uh once she's pregnant They are her kids and she will prioritize them, you know, according to However, she has been raised or however. She's thinking but um I don't think for a minute that those are your kids. Well, go ahead Let's be specific here. So when you say don't get married You mean specifically to avoid any legal recognition from the government state or federal for being married in the united states So it's a very specific because you're there a very specific statement you're making Well, I remember I got married in the state of california too. So Yeah, I live in nevada now and I've lived in florida and lived in some other places But my my marriage licenses from the state of california and if you live with the whole if you are married beyond 10 years You owe that woman alimony for the rest of your life. If you oh, you can't transfer that State like it's I don't I don't I don't believe so. I don't know. I've never been divorced so But from from the guys that I have counseled before if you have been married for 10 years in the state of california That's why you'll see like a lot of these guys like these hollywood couples will break up right right right around the eight or the nine year mark There's a there's a reason behind that Well, baby, it's been none and a half years exactly They don't want to be paying and you look at the I think marriage today is really it's this Idealism for guys. It's this idealism of an old social contract and that they're going to be the head of the house And they're going to be or or they're going to be in some sort of you know idealistic egalitarian marriage I think rollo. Would you say too that the old books? Philosophy is what you know informs men that getting married makes them a man or something like that Yes, well, and and I'm glad you asked that because there I just got into this with pat cambell on on friday's show Uh, I think that there is this effort especially in the the the feminine imperative and the And the feminine primary social order to make men feel bad to shame men for not building their lives Around the potential or the you know to be this ready perfect Ready to go beta when when that woman hits her epiphany phase right around 29 to 31 years old And you you haven't built any you have put any foundation down it So we what do we say about those guys as we say they're they're extending that yeah, yeah They're kid adults, you know, they're kid adults there. They're peter pan men. We want to shame them for not Um for not living up to what what a man should be You that's what so even say man up and man up and marry those sluts right man up Man up and marry a man up and get married a man up and do this And you're not a man you cannot be you cannot gain the title of manhood unless You build your life up around the idea that you're going to be a husband at some point Or you're going to be a father at some point Peterson doesn't want one big point of contention I have with Peterson is he seems to think that that if you if you don't follow that You're less of a man for not having followed that. I fundamentally disagree with that. Yeah I think that it shames It shames men Into thinking that they need to do that in order to become a man And then you get the guys who who did it and they went along with the old school books Or the old social contract and they want to shame the guys who haven't done it yet So they want to they want to shame them into into, you know joining up the You know the army that they that they joined and they want to shame you and women will shame you And because you because you Want to live for yourself you will admit that's why that's I understand I fully get why mig towels are the way they are They they don't want to have to deal with that and and I get it And they don't want to have to define themselves based on that anymore But that doesn't make them less of less men because they're living for themselves instead of living for the idea Of being a husband and being a man So we still want this old social contract where we're going to we're going to base our ideas of what manhood is on an old social contract But we're going to all of the dangers and all of the risks and all of the inconsistencies that are with modern marriage today That's all based on the new social contract. And so you have this idealistic idea of this old social contract You know way of things But the danger is really in the new social contract way of things And so we'll shame those men and say you're not a man unless you do the things that we tell you to do And I like I think that's that's ridiculous because we don't say the same thing to women You know if a woman is 35 years old and never been married and never had a really you know long term relationship We don't call her a kid old We don't call Jesus. What?  Right to come along and and it's we we won't Call that we won't shame them for doing exactly the same thing that a that a man who wants to You know cut himself free from that old social paradigm And that right there should show you The difference of how we treat men and and a married man versus the guy who Want you know the guy who wants to ride his motorcycle around the country and experience things and do things on his own And not be you know be held down by that.  Yeah, I this is going to be a bit of a tie right here, but I was thinking about cycles for the longest time because One of the guys that I know there are naturals They weren't born with some magic ability to relate to women What happened was these were the guys who was who were chasing pussy when they were 11 12 years old And They got a head start on everyone else and they Accumulated those skills very early on and they've just been reaping dividends for decades And that made me think of there are certain skills you should get in every Decade of your life like your social skills should come largely in your teens Some basic academic stuff as well in your 20s. You're laying the foundation for your future earnings You need to do that and that's when everyone learns the skills that they're going to make money off for the rest of their life Once you hit your 30s, you have to start leveraging what you did in your teens and your 20s To further improve on that you build the foundation early and then you just refine it as you go along The danger is that if you let's say you're in your mid 20s You've got some social skills down You you're in the middle of your degree program or just finishing it and getting your first job You meet a girl you give her pregnant you get married and with every And like most first marriages it ends it divorce and and after about five to seven years depending on of it And you're back in this actual marketplace at 30 32 33 35 somewhere around there And you've lost seven to eight years of your life that you could have spent building value to get a better deal later on And this is the risk of it. What reward do you get from settling down? What is the reward of marriage? It's non-existent But the risk of marriage is as Rallo says if you're married for 10 years in California, you owe that bitch money for life One of the one of the things that dal rock has has sort of made me aware of when it comes to modern Husbands in the modern mirror, you know, like I'm writing this book everything Is that today's husbands are a hundred percent about responsibility and a hundred percent about liability But they are zero percent about authority.  You're not there Danny And it's the same thing. Tell me what to do. Don't tell the kids what to do You're always wrong and the biggest problem with that is women.  So So that's kind of the issue here that men just don't have the they They have all the risk and they have none of their reward women have all of the reward and absolutely none of the risk Or consequence consequences. This is why women drag men down the aisle This is why men in the media are portrayed when they're married as that You ever seen a woman. Oh, I got the old ball and chain.  You got the lottery ticket That's they're all worried that they're gonna say they're not a man And that's why if you guys remember that first question we got where the guy was worried about looking like a phony That's where that mentality leads If you stop worrying about man as an archetype and then people defining it for you Then you just focus on you and the here and the now Wisdom of psychopaths a great book if you guys read it and that's the best Thing I've took from it is that they live in the present moment And when you stop looking at like will this make me look like a beta male in the future Then you don't focus on trying to appease everybody's opinion of you and you just focus on How does this affect me right now? And then you don't get right on the aisle. What's the name of the book run? It's called wisdom of psychopaths Okay, I can't remember the Captain Duckton is the author or you can find it on amazon Yeah, there was audio book too Guys, we have another question that came in through the text text format today I want to get on it bounces it off exactly what we're just talking about He says hi, my name is michael I'm a 31 year old man for those of us men who actually want kids But are red pill aware our children out of wedlock a better option than maybe an open marriage or a traditional marriage And I would add to that myself a private marriage for which I think you guys are familiar with at this point Yeah, well, it's essentially common law Well, let me ask you this though off or is uh, do you have enough goats to trade for her parents dowry? Is is the title of bastard children gonna affect your right to air? Since we're talking about these old institutions, let's just go full retire Let's do it. Why not begs the dowry the other the other question I would ask is is that really your choice? because It's quite possible that even if with the best of intense that you want to Establish a marriage because you want to have a good solid base to you know in which to You know raise your kids and everything Always understand, you know the thing that a man is always going to have to live with is that those kids can be taken from him at any time They're never your children regardless of marriage considerations, right? Yes. Yes, so I I think that you know, yes, I think I think if you if you can establish a good, you know solid Loving relationship and loving marriage where where the two of you are on the same on the same page and You know, you've got a woman who uh who? admires you and respects you Always know that you I mean in the back of your head You always know that that woman has the power to just completely destroy you at any time Is it still worth it to you? That's that's I think is one of the the most vexing problems that men of this generation have to deal with right now A lot of them don't a lot of them just like I said, they just they believe in this You know polyanna idealistic idea of marriage like oh, that'll never happen We're gonna you know, like what's his name? But the prince prince is it prince harry or whoever it is they're getting? Oh, yeah And and look at who he's married.  I think and she's this yeah this uber feminist and it's just like You couldn't have picked a worse A candidate to be a princess of all things But but see these this is the this is the mindset This is the these are the guys that are getting married today These are the guy and that is and that is the basis of what they think they're gonna have They think they're gonna have this egalitarian marriage where we're all gonna be equal and I'm gonna do the dishes honey And and we're all gonna be fine.  It's just your turn. Yes.  So what about kids, right? Is it a good? Yeah, exactly. So that that's that's tough.  He can have any woman he wants and he chooses this broad I can't believe it, but he will not give himself the permission to actually be selective, you know and I wish I could just grab him and just shake some sense into it man I mean the guy I don't know how old he is But let's just say he's 36 years old if he's making this decision. I don't think he is I think he's younger than that, but it doesn't matter how old Well, it looks like he's making this decision when he's hitting his stride and hitting his peak You can just you can tell that that guy that guy is beta and he is he's probably a long-term beta He's gonna he's gonna stay that way terminal beta. Yeah, because he doesn't 33. Oh my god Dude, I miss a minute old days back when he was dressed up in that ss outfit for halloween.   You have some actual real mastery by that that time And women know that guys in that state are highly desirable.   And thus far that's been the case in spite of having sort of an unofficial wife his role put it So my question to you guys is in the red pill we do talk about problems with marriage that have Nothing to do with the legal elements just the way fathers are treated the way husbands are treated the way they're portrayed in the media There's a lot of problems there that's this is shitty But there's also a whole legal element that just sucks even worse and it's extremely dangerous And often results in divorce rape and other serious problems up to including suicide So my question is what are you guys thoughts on private marriage? meaning Trying to or doing your best to obtain all of the functions of a marriage so to speak for the purpose of family formation But specifically and purposefully avoiding Common law marriage and getting a marriage certificate or license at any point I'll leave on this one because it sounds very similar to what I got like I don't know what common laws like in the stakes, but when you say private marriage It's essentially what you're describing. We don't have lawyers arbitrators. I think the benefit of it is She's forced to be her best When you think about marriage it kind of gives you a certain anchor So a girl can get fat and lazy and guys often get fat and lazy because they're like well, we're married now That's the end game when you don't have that extra element to security You kind of have to you have to constantly be proving value to each other So I find your private marriage if it's and legally I think I understand what you're getting at I think it's one of the best things And it's an easy sell if you get a girl who's a child of divorce or a guy who's a child of divorce It's such an easy sell They're like because do you really want to be like your mother?   Yeah, they don't have any skin in the game. So their opinion doesn't matter Those are exactly my thoughts when I went through it myself Obviously with a horrible choice to women to the extreme But the functions of it. I think we're pretty good and I'm actually very surprised. I haven't done pragmatic Yeah, it was very pragmatic and I'm surprised it hasn't taken off as an idea in the red pill more thoroughly Like it's not perfect and it doesn't solve everything. There are serious problems outside of legal context with marriage But in terms of legal stuff It's pretty good In fact, it's so good at um more like I think you've talked about ryan that If private marriages concept were to take off like I tried it It would actually be we might get like a canada type thing where common law marriage becomes all of a sudden This huge feminist issue or now they're forcing men into marriage or something like that But until that happens that ain't the case Yeah, and rollo, you you've been to a few states now Up here we have a thing where once the kids get I believe it's 13 They're allowed to pick which parent they live with and has custody. Is there that in the states? No, no, nothing like that. Uh, Usually it's it's whatever the the court is going to grant. Um, and usually that's a 98 percent of cases That's going to be women unless that unless that woman is a prostitute and a drug dealer and a drug user I mean, unless there's some uh, and even then they still get to keep their kids Yeah, well that goes back to that goes back to that is uh talked about before is like it's uh, it's the cult of the child It's whatever um, whatever is in the best interests of the child. So They always think that that's going to be Yeah, because it's how it plays out here, which is awesome And it's you separate the guys that want validation Like, you know, some guys want kids in the same way that people want pets. I want something to love me And they're the ones that are terrified They'll put up with sexless marriages because they get to be around Eight-year-old kids that constantly adore them and I think that's a horrible attitude As opposed to let's say your goal is to raise Children into adults then it switches and you realize like your job is to be a stable good parent like kids love structure And if they reach that age of 13 and they realize mom's Mom and your ex-wife is bringing home a new chat every week and she's kind of ignoring them and missing all their stuff Meanwhile dad is the stable influence in their life Then you're meeting your goal of raising children into adults Sure, you will you'll not see them until they're 13 and can decide to live with you But You shouldn't have to want adaboys for being a man Yeah, that's true. I was gonna say is I think that um, I think anthony I I understand what your arrangement was with with medusa I I get that and I understand I don't know a real name. I just go It changes. I care. That's a real name. It's it's it's medusa. I looked at it legally it legally changes I think that's I think it's a it's a good idea and it's probably something that needs to be explored a little bit more I've had these debates on the comment section of my blog for several years I'm particularly for guys who are pickup artists guys who just cannot leave the game They they want to have kids But they don't want to get married because they don't want to leave the game because they're they're still they're still into it You know, we say, oh, well, they're not maturing enough Well, they're they're mature guys and they want to have kids and they want to have that responsibility And they want to they want to have children in their life, but they they want to be able to date multiple women at the same time And you know, first of all, I don't think that's the most healthy idea for these guys to do that But they're trying to come up with the same a very similar solution to what you're talking about right now Is they think that they can have these open relationships, but they uh But they are still In control like they still have some sort of authority within that relationship And so it's basically like the option is always open for them to to go and and date outside of the relationship if they want to Well, I mean good luck trying to make that work today. And then second of all, you're gonna see that As as far as as you doing your your own sort of outside the law private marriage That's great. But I think that in the future if if that were to ever take off or whatever to get, you know Gain in popularity. I think that you agree to It's going to get legislated against and I and I really think that you will find some new Law will spring up to get get men back on the plantation again And and it'll work for a while. It might work for a decade But eventually there'll be a law that that drags men back because we've already got bachelor taxes in in in just different forms We've got, you know, every time a guy says i'm never going to get married and the state says, oh, yes, you are and they they want to As much as guys try to get away from hypergamy In a feminine primary social order that can legislate against that You're always going to fail that until you can change the until you can change the politics And until until you can put your own judges on the on the floor Carl Well, I wanted to say here as i've been working on a post for a while now and The whole reason why the state wants you to get married is because it ties you to the country. Yeah Uh, if you're not married, you don't have any kids Then you can take your skills anywhere you want more or less. You can pull. Um, what was his name victor pride?  But what I saw from it from in new zealand that has a very developed welfare state Is that women They pretty much are net negative to the state if there were no men The state would be bankrupt in about three and a half nanoseconds They would be venezuela and greece in a couple of days And this is what happens because women vote to have more government services More government handouts And the men have to pay for it. So if men are suddenly not getting married. They're not having children And they're not tied down those men will move if the tax regime goes to art arm But if they're tied down and they know that the women I mean, you're not going to take your wife who's used an american lifestyle to go live in kawaii to where she has to wear a Urta, I mean urshik has grown up with tube tops. She's not giving up her tube tops for any top so That at that point they're they're just draining you for the extent of your life and if you're lucky you get to retire in your 70s and Get to have your wife nag you full time instead of part time for the last 10 years of your life Donovan Yeah, I think the private marriage obviously there are many There are many levels and layers to it, but on its face It's not a perfect solution, but it's sure as shit beats Getting married You know entering into a contract with a woman and the state and here's the thing I think that private marriage would really only work It the private marriage would work exactly the way the sexual market works now In other words, you'd have the top 20 percent of men marrying or fucking 80 percent of the women If your value if your value is high enough.   They're wild stallions.    All of a sudden. It's not the ball and chain It's like listen, man. My wife doesn't act right.   And that's why I say don't get married people keep asking like, how can you say that? How can you how can you write what you say and you're married? I'm like, well, yeah I tell you don't get married because it's it's There you lose any leveraging that you had just give me one second, Anthony Um Just what you're saying.  I can't I can't possibly game my wife for forever You know, and like I don't have to game my wife because I have internalized the red pill as as part of who I am Yeah, you're always You always are I always am but I'm not because it's just part of who I've become But I'm gonna say is that there's still an an element. I mean, maybe this is maybe this is me personally I always tell guys don't use my marriage as your template for what could be possible for you Because you you don't work in the liquor industry. You don't have my talents. You don't have my my deficits and my gifts I mean, you don't have any of that kind of stuff and so like trying to recreate what I have I mean more power to you. I hope you can I hope you I hope you can find a great woman that you can Live the rest of your life with and raise kids with I I I really think that men really want that that at some point they want to have Uh, some kind of connection with a woman and they want to have something long term They want to have kids that that are theirs and that are going to be around for them And that they're going to have some sort of influence in I mean when guys decide that they want to get married And they always say well, what about the kids? What if I have kids and I that's why I keep coming back to the fact that they're never going to be your kids they're never yours to keep because You know, they can always be taken away from you by a woman or by the state At any moment because you're just you're just a mere man. So all of these dreams of Of uh, of getting married just because you want to have kids. Well, you know, you might have some influence And that might help you do I hope you have a good long marriage and I hope you have good, you know You're a good red pill father for them But the fact of the matter is is that you fundamentally cannot have any sort of Of rights to them or any kind of of sway over those kids In the in the ultimate long term Of anything but uh, I just think that um, if you If you decide to get married understand what you're giving up and understand the responsibility that you're assuming and understand that you're losing authority When you're single that's why donovan said when you're single it's so much better to have a girlfriend I got one of the one of the best posts I ever wrote and I got so much for it was I said I think it was titled as good as it gets and it's like you get to a point where you are 30 some odd years old You're at your peak section market value.  And assuming you have built up yourself to the the fullest of your potential you simply You're in a better position than you ever would be in that you know at that age With that degree of maturity Being married and that's why the the epiphany phase is such an important phase for guys to understand when it comes to women Because they are at their most necessitous and they are hoping you're going to be ignorant when they when the time comes For them to be that necessitous because they don't want to have to deal with competition anxiety And they don't want to have to deal with dread They want to be in control and anything that can put women in more control whether it's the state Whether it's social conventions, whether it's you being raised as a blue pill guy All of that goes to the control of that woman. And so yeah, you're right. There's there's no competition There's no dread. So, you know, they they they want to perpetuate that You know, they're their selectivity they want to perpetuate its female self sabotage Yes, exactly. They think they want it, but it doesn't it doesn't benefit anybody in the long term Yeah, so there's my long-winded way of saying don't get married Before we close out on the uh, this marriage bit the private marriage bit I wanted to point out that there has been some minimal mainstream push for the privatization of marriage In the united states by senator rand paul also presidential candidate recent one But it was from the perspective and focusing on the gay marriage issue that was going on at the time I think it was like 2015 that was going on wait gamer gate. That was 14 some How do you guys have it where the games are such a charge influence on how marriage works in the states?    To messy so and so but we can say we can simply say well You know what? We're both heterosexual and we're both going to have sex with women outside of our marriage And that's just our arrangement. So it's basically whatever it is that we want it to be But we're just basically a partnership now. It's not it's not about gays. I mean, yeah, it is about gays getting married But it's uh, it's same sex marriage.  It doesn't matter that the state only cares about You know, uh, who do you want on your your death certificate? Who do you want on the birth certificate?  They don't they don't care.    Yeah Guys, uh, we've been going for about two hours now. Let's kind of close this out on 40s if we can So role you just uh, you just exited your Exited in my 40s. Yeah, let's talk about guys in the rough pill in the 40s.  I think that in my 40s at least That's when you're going to really develop yourself With with that full knowledge knowing what hopefully by the time you're in your 40s As a man you have at least Realized some of your potential. Hopefully all of your potential probably not all of your potential I can't really say that because I really think that even you know at 50 years old I think that I still have a lot more to do and there's a lot more things that I want to accomplish But I think that when a guy gets to be 50 and he looks back on on his life Hopefully you are red pill aware and hopefully you have You learned who you are and and you have built something for yourself And this is the age that I I write about when I talk about guys getting zeroed out And this is when guys have built so much and have invested so much of themselves and they they believe Very firmly in what I call relational equity They think that that because they have done everything by the book and they played by the rules that everybody's going to respect that And there's there's some security in that and then all that any woman, you know Particularly their wives should want to have sex with them even more because there's such a good catch and see how great they were And again, um, you know, we were just talking about How nothing is really truly yours and hypergamy doesn't care about relational equity You know a lot of a lot of other things happen for women when they're in their 40s on I just think that You need to be careful, uh, you need to understand how to bounce back from a real Real real rejection you think getting rejected by a girl when you're 15 is bad Wait till you get zeroed out when you're 42 years old and you lose your kids and you lose half of your stuff And you're on the hook paying alimony for the next 10 years Now I hopeful, you know, I I would like to attribute the success of my marriage to my red pill awareness But don't think for a second that I don't know that don't think I don't think that I don't realize that there's still a possibility as Good as my marriage is that that could happen, you know, and I'm just exiting my Or my 40s here. So, um, I think that From a red pill perspective um Guys when they get to be 40 At this point if they've been beta up to this point Maybe they have their midlife crisis and I don't really call it a midlife crisis I kill it more of like a midlife epiphany because they are are smart enough particularly in this day and age because with with open hypergamy and so many women just flaunting it and openly embracing it and and You know writing movies about it and living it out day to day um When a guy realizes that he's been a tool when he's been a beta tool for the sexual strategies of women for as long as he's been You know in the game. I think that that's when they realize.  I just went through my my peak sexual marketability Uh, I I didn't you know, I should have waited. I should have done this I should have done that because they now have a better understanding of how the game is played and I think that that's where is the the primary contributor to Midlife crisis because they become aware. It's like they become aware We we call it. Um, we call them the man's bear. We call it over and I think ryan calls it awakened. Well Awakened well married And these are the guys these are guys at 40 when they get they get unplugged and they're still married and they're like holy Shit, I've I've been I've been duped this entire time And so at that point, maybe they want to go buy a motorcycle Maybe they want to trade up for a hotter wife if they could But they're they're coming to that realization and and I think that You can either really benefit from that or you can really self-destruct because of that Like for me when I got to be about about 43 44 years old I didn't go through it. I didn't go through a My midlife crisis because I was pretty happy with who I was and what I had done I wasn't thinking god.  I wasn't thinking. Oh, I could have done this better I mean I made some mistakes and there's there's some things I could have done better along the way But most of those were really in my my career and My life is a you know Doing what I do for a living Not anything to do with With the women or my wife or anything like that. So I was I was pretty I was pretty set But I I counsel guys constantly who are in a midlife crisis and they go, I don't know Should I leave my wife? Should I do this? Should I do that? And it's really been prompted by them suddenly realizing that they've been beta their entire lives And now they're trying to turn things around and I think that's a really tough place for guys to want a positive note I think for your points role on what you're talking about I think Andrew the private man was a really good example of someone who found the red pill late in life I think 47 48 not mistaken himself around. Yeah Yeah, and so it can be done and it was done very well Sadly, he died of a rare from eye cancer about 10 years later And just just real quickly. I'm I'm coaching. I don't say coaching. I'm I'm uh counseling this guy Who is 70 years old right now and we just sort of have a back and forth kind of conversation And uh, he became aware and became Unplugged I guess right at about 69 70 years old and now he wants to turn himself around He wants to do something different, you know with the remaining years that he has and I'm happy to help him But I I don't think it's ever too late But I think that once you get to a certain point and you have an unplugged you're probably not going to Yeah, that's one of those probably age, but maybe it can be done. Is anybody for who's 40 here? Nobody's 40 here I'm 40. Oh, you are. Okay. Yep Well, that's a chance to look forward to here comes your midlife crisis Well, here's the thing. I don't this is funny I think it's interesting that you say this because um, I am now more focused on my physical fitness Now that I ever have been in my entire life And I was actually thinking about this the other day like is this my midlife crisis moment Because within the next six months, I absolutely I will be in the best shape that I have ever been in Um Monday, I lifted heavy weights did jiu-jitsu that night Tuesday I did spin class Wednesday lifted heavy jiu-jitsu that night Thursday It took the day off because the cleaning lady came Friday heavy weights jiu-jitsu this morning I did a spin class. So right now I have sort of an unhealthy obsession with with my physique I don't have any interest in going out and buying a motorcycle. I've owned cool cars before That kind of stuff is important, but it's not as important to me But for me, I want to make the I want to make my 40s the best decade of my life And the reason why is because I've more or less exited the game I don't go out and holler at chicks anymore. I'm in a committed long-term relationship and it's it's it really is Unbelievable how much more you get done? How much more you accomplish?  I say this all the time men in in rollo You can speak to this most men come to the red pill because of heartbreak or sexual frustration or a combination of both And a funny thing happens on the way to the fable, you know Red pill play a status is that you figure out that there are other things in life other than women And that the red and that women having success with women is merely a broad is merely a by-product Or a side effect of living the red pill life If you keep yourself in shape if you if you have healthy hobbies if you start a project You're going to be you're going to be living your purpose and women are naturally attracted to men who have a lot going on So you're going to be naturally attractive to women Well now that i'm out of the game. I'm in a long-term relationship. I play to build for the future That's what I look forward to in my 40s Now could that I mean listen could my plans be derailed? Of course for you know for whatever reason anything could happen But but my 30s my 30s was an unbelievably wild wild decade It was really really crazy, but I I really think that my 40s are going to be much much better That's what I personally have to look forward to so I think my I think my midlife crisis moment is me being On the gym and sweating and puking and doing all this other stuff. I think that's sort of a by-product of that All right As I know of some something to contribute. Otherwise, I think I'll wind down the show for today. We're at about two hours 20 minutes Yeah, just your 30s being 30 is Culmination of what your 20s were like being 40 is what your 30s look like. So you're always You're showing what your last decade was spent like and it's great that donovan is getting better every decade So hitting 40 show that he did right by his 30s And when people talk about the wall and the male wall or whatever that's all that really is is is showing you Uh, what's that word for investing carl? You're finance, what's the one where uh investments get better over time accumulate Hammer time Yeah compound interest exactly Well, I think that's great. Yeah, I was just gonna I'll I'll just end here by saying that you know Here I am entering my 50s and I've got a I've got a post up right now sort of I think it's life at 50 And I was just sort of contemplating what it is that I want to do because like I've I've built So much over my 30s and my 40s and now it's like I understand I think you have a better sense of purpose what the older you get as a man assuming you have, you know Done You know done right by yourself as far as your potential is concerned And so like I was like when we're starting the show out. I was saying, um, you know I I'm at a point where I wanted I I need to figure out what's important to me What what kind of dent can I leave in the universe?  And I want to help change the world I want to hope how I hopefully am going to be able to write more and put more out there because As part of that post I'm I'm really concerned about I'm really concerned about getting What alzheimer's disease because my father died of alzheimer's back when he was Gosh, he was 60. He started getting it when he was 63 And uh, he ended up dying when he was about 72 and just I just saw him a guy who prided himself on his intellect Just really just watching decay and disappear before my eyes and to me that's almost like a fate worse than death So it's like that's really kind of set a fire under my ass to write more books and to do more Do more of what I do now like doing you know being world of tamasi as opposed to being Just a guy who works in that and he's selling sugar water really selling alcohol So that's why I'm I'm sort of at a turning point right now where I want to involve myself a little bit more in red pill community and a little bit more in my writing and the Roll of tamasi the author now And I if I if I have any hopes for the future. I hope that I can put out more books I hope I can help more guys before I end up going out and hopefully that will be till I'm like 80 or 90 But you know, there's always that doubt in the back of my head that you know, maybe I'll get alzheimer's Or maybe something else will happen. Maybe get hit by a truck today. Who knows but uh, I'm a little bit more Wary about leaving something behind because it's really an interesting thought to me to think that that maybe my grandchildren Am I great grandchildren?  Yeah, exactly I I'm I'm just dying to know because nobody in my family is an author. Nobody's ever done anything anything remotely like what I've done So It'll be interesting. I hope I'm the one that is the most remembered of the tamasi clan Well, I would I would I would say you're you're off to a good start I just wanted to say one quick thing about appreciation and depreciation as far as men and women go Women are like cars and men are like houses. That's just all there is to it Dude, when you buy a brand new car, it starts to depreciate the minute you roll it off the lot The minute a woman takes your cock for the very first time her to her value has already depreciated Men we literally do get better with age there and the mail wall. It's funny men We don't hit the mail wall. We kind of glide into the mail wall There's no precipitous fall in attraction for men in part because we physically age better but another reason why is because Our value is determined by so much more than just looks There there's personality. There's you know, there's goals. Are you goal oriented? And I've always said this a man who's an and for all you guys out here thinking well Money and looks is all that matters in game.   Guess what?   Just be an a don't try to be this well-rounded Man that that the world tells you have that that the world tells you have to be Try to be as balanced as possible You have to understand to be great at anything you have to be naturally imbalanced so make sure you focus on what on what you're really good at cultivate that and Eventually people are gonna people are gonna start to gravitate towards you most notably women I think Carlos was supposed to go next Yeah here else No, what I was gonna say is that uh black label logic the blonde is kind of the culmination of all these screw-ups in my 20s So that's everything I did and screwed up on in my 20s and you know My 20s were a train wreck in many regards and it ended as anthony knows with a fairly Let's say interesting relationship experience and that's why I think the thing Rallo says about the way The pua tend to go is very interesting because it always starts with okay, you learn pua And then you do pua for three four years start to get good at it And suddenly you're in the position where oh, I should grow up and go into a relationship and I did that exact path And it was an interesting kind of a train wreck scenario I mean Luckily, I've met anthony and anthony managed to find perhaps the only woman in the world who was crazier than my ex and that's uh I don't know if I've never had a fucking talent right there I mean like I told ryan when he was saying, you know Well, if a woman has pulled a gun on you and I'm like, well, I've had a knife pulled on me. Does that count?  Yeah, I went before him. I was talking about you know, women being like cars and men being like houses with regards to appreciation and depreciation in value Remember you're that remember you're the house guys. She's the car A dot or Ryan, did you want to hop in I meant to say yeah, it's a rhetorical question for rollo I just realized something my dad died when I was a teenager. He was actually about your age He died of emphysema So, you know lung cancer because he was smoking too much his last month on an oxygen tank Here's something I've been thinking about so you kind of know like your dad had a genetic thing so you kind of have A generic roadmap like what your next 20 years may or may not be like Would you find that better or worse in my case? It was self-inflicted and it's about the same as your timeline 20 years Would you rather know what you might have in store for you or I have no idea once I turn 50 No idea what my life spans like and what's possibly coming down the line I'm already making a decision based on the presumption that I will at some point decay I I don't know if how how realistic that is I I wrote about this like I said in the last post that I've got up right now And I mentioned that you know, my father had died from from all timers But a lot of guys are telling me. Oh, it's not it's it's environmental and it's not genetic And I think you're still doing a lot of studies on Yeah, who knows right, but um And the other thing is I don't know who my biological grandfather is on my mom's side of the family So there's that sort of genetic x factor that I have to so I mean, oh, I mean I I like to do lots of things and I keep myself my mind is pretty active as a writer So, you know, my dad was very lethargic later on in his life And so I would say that a lot of If if it's lifestyle, I can certainly see how my father's lifestyle contributed to him getting Alzheimer's But to answer your question Yes, I'm in fact, that's I'm already planning that If you go and you look at the life of Steve Jobs in his later years when he found out that he had cancer and he He's in some level of consciousness understood that he was going to die because of that That's when he became really super hyper productive Um, and we got all these these, you know, we got an iphone. We got an ipad We got, you know, all kinds of different innovations and things that, you know, we never had we never knew we needed before, right? And I you know, whatever your opinion of Steve Jobs I don't really care, but the the point is is that Once you see the end coming I think at least for a guy like me and you know, you know, I'm an artist as well And I'm a writer and I'm a thinker and I've got a lot of other I have lots of irons in the fire as far as my life is concerned. And so hitting 50 sort of made me want to Reassess that what's going to be important in the future and what's not going to be important in the future And what am I going to put my time into? Do I want to put it into my hobbies? Do I want to put it into, you know Getting as much and as many hours snowmobiling as I possibly can or do I want to produce a red pill book? I'm religion and that's yeah I just wonder how it's going to be different when I'm your age because you kind of know It's going to be I think a particularly because what you went through with your own father I think that you will probably be along the same lines as me. You're going to say what's important to you I think one of the greatest things about the red pill and the self-improvement side of red pill awareness is it's really changing Men's behaviors that that other men in the previous generation like my father's for instance I can't imagine what when my dad would have been like if he had had access to red pill Awareness, I mean would that have changed his behavior?  What are they doing? And like I said, I want to leave a dent in the universe And I think probably these three books have already done that for me pretty well But I still think I have a lot more to contribute So it's really it's really just a it's really sort of Deciding what's important to you and what's not important to you? Yeah, it's just neat. It's a nice little thing to think about. Yeah, are you forgetting older making me think about that?   That's right Dude my sailing schedule. I didn't have time to think about anything. I was too busy working for fuck's sakes. Yeah, right All right gentlemen With those closing comments, I think we'll close that for today. Thanks all of you for joining on the show per usual For those of you watching, thanks for tuning in live. Appreciate it very much those you watch later Thank you for investing time as well.  Because there's no because it's not in real time Let's see what happens when these motherfuckers call up man. Hey, did you see the one on twitter that was commenting on rollo?  So maybe these haters can go and fund me Yeah, they do indirectly. No, yeah, they do my question is a woman saying I hate you guys But I can't stop watching isn't that the same as a woman calling you an asshole? Listen that just yes Listen the woman who claims to hate rollo to massy would have 16 of his kids If you want to glad you all figured that out on your eyes. It means I'm doing my job There you go. I think she likes you or me dude.  I don't care. It's part of the gig. I'll teach you a lesson. Yeah. Oh, yeah.  Thanks tuning in guys stay on the call. I'm gonna close that live adios