We're now at the top of the hour. I would like to go ahead and pass the audio off to our host, Jenny Arena, from Heritage Preservation, to start today's session. Jenny, please go ahead whenever you're ready. Great. Thank you so much, Mike. Thank you, everyone. It looks like we've got about 165 folks logged in, and it's still climbing. And as you know, you're joining us for our second webinar in this Fundraising for Collections Care course. As you know, this is just one course in our series caring for yesterday's treasures today. We've already had five courses that have concluded in our archives on the online community, and you are more than welcome to view those at any time. There's resources, there's webinars, all for the taking. We are so incredibly grateful for the Institute of Museum and Library Services for making all of these courses available. The series is made possible by a Laura Bush 21st-Century Librarian Grant from IMLS. And of course, we're also really fortunate to have Mike on board and Learning Times on board to help us with both our website and our webinar support. So you know this is our second webinar in this five webinar course. Our next webinar will meet again on Tuesday, October 1st at 2 p.m. and Kelsey will be joining us again, so we'll get a chance to talk to her again. So like our other courses, you are eligible to earn a certificate of completion and also a digital credential from credley.com for participating and to do so. We just asked for a few things. The first is you should have registered online so we can track you and keep track of all your homework. If you received our last email on Monday with a link to the webinar recording, there's a very good chance that you are registered. You should be. We also ask that you watch all five webinars and we understand that it's not always possible to join us live. So we do ask that you watch those recordings and those emails we send. And just a reminder, those emails do come from Heritage Preservation. So if you're not getting them, you might want to check your spam filter for us. And of course, the final requirement are those five homework assignments. And if you are interested in earning a certificate, those are due no later than Monday, October 14th. And I do want to just briefly share some information about that first homework assignment from Monday. As of yesterday afternoon, we had about 105 of you had completed it. So keep up the good work. It was really fantastic to see your responses. We asked you a few things including whether or not your organization had a strategic plan. And it was great to see many of you did or many of you noted that your strategic plan is just constantly in the works. So that's great. And I do think most of you felt we asked you about a departmental or development plan and you felt that a plan was still needed in addition to that overarching strategic plan. And one person had a really great comment and I hope it's okay that I stole it. They said the strategic plan tells you where to go and that development plan tells you how to get there. So that was very nice. We also asked you if your organization had a collections care plan or if you had completed a conservation assessment. And as you can see from these two graphs, pretty evenly split between yes or no or we're working on it. So very interesting to see. As you guys know, everything for this course can be found on the course homepage including resources, PowerPoint handouts, and links to those homework assignments. And also Mike mentioned those outstanding questions that you guys asked. We do hold on to those questions. And actually just yesterday I posted a PDF to the course webpage. Kelsey was kind enough to go back and answer some of those questions we couldn't get to. So some really great responses there, so make sure to check that out. And as always, if you have questions, please feel free to email us or call us. We're here to help. Okay, without further ado let's move on to our topic today. Our instructor is Susan Matheson. Susan's experience really bridges both the conservation and the fundraising field. As a textile conservator she has held numerous conservation positions in places like the National Gallery of Art and the Morgan Library and was also the administrative conservator at NYU's conservation program. Her development positions have included those at the American Academy in Rome and the Friends of the American Museum in Britain. And in 2007 she started SAM Fundraising Solutions, a consultancy specializing in fundraising for art conservation and historic preservation and in that capacity she helps museums, historic houses, and grass roots groups meet their fundraising and strategic planning goals. She also teaches workshops and fundraising for collections care like she's doing today. So we are in really great hands today. Susan I'm going to go ahead and move this out of the way and you will now see your PowerPoint and I'll hand things over to you. Thank you. Thank you and welcome everybody. I've been seeing people saying hello to me in the chat room so I want to say hello back and glad you're all able to join us. Excuse me. Now on Monday Kelsey talked about fundraising fundamentals and today it's really about how will you find the funding and my focus is going to be on institutional forces. So the workshop, oops, wait a minute, I'm sorry, hang on. Okay, there we are. I had to figure out how to move it forward again. Some of the goals for today's workshop is at first I want you to think about approaching foundations, corporations, government agencies strategically not responsibly. And responsive grant seeking is really sort of a gut reaction to a problem. So you're sending out, there's an issue you need to raise money for so you send out one form letter that goes out to a variety of foundations or corporations where you're not really paying attention to what they're funding or anything like that or your reading foundation guidelines and trying to get your project to fit that. Instead I prefer strategic fundraising where you really sort of create a plan and Kelsey talked a lot about this on Monday creating a plan to sort of reach your fundraising goals and thinking strategically about whom you're approaching, with what project, how you're going to ask them for it, and how you're going to develop that relationship with the funder. Another thing I want to help you with today is looking beyond the usual suspects. This isn't about giving you a magic list but really giving you the tools to help you create your own. And then the last thing I want to look at too is presenting collections care initiatives in the changing philanthropic world. And I did a presentation at AIC this year at the American Institute for Conservation on this topic. And I really talked to a lot of corporate donors, foundation officers, development people both here and abroad to kind of see what is going on now and what people are looking for now. So with that, let me go over the workshop outline really quickly. We're going to do the basics, where does the money come from, how do you find it, how much do you ask for. We're going to talk about what I refer to as the magic list. There really isn't one but I know you want it anyway so I have to give it to you. Then we'll talk about some suggested funders for conservation and collection care initiatives.  It's, you know, not about saving something anymore. As we go along, there'll be little sort of subsections. And I have brainstorm sessions included in which will give you questions to help you guide your research and things you can use, helpful hints of the tools and tips to help you. Research tools are basically things to help guide you through the prospect research process. And then words of warning are things you should be aware of. Now with that started, Jenny, I think you shoot in here. I'm ready for my first poll. Okay. And basically what I'm looking for here, just so I have a good idea, is what kinds of projects are people out there trying to raise money for. We'll give you a few minutes. Actually, Jenny, I think there was more. Maybe. No, maybe not. Okay, sorry. Oh yeah, there they are. Okay, great. All right, I'm seeing digitization, which is interesting. Catalogging, yeah. Condition assessment always. Treatment is always the biggest one. Okay, great. All right, we're going to see digitizations getting up there higher. How interesting. Okay, great. Thanks, Jenny, for coming from. And there's usually four main ones. There, an individual is what Kelsey is going to be talking about in her second webinar on October 1st. So we're not going to address that at all. What we're going to look at here are the corporations, the foundations, and the government agencies. And just so you're all aware, I kind of plopped them into funders and donors. So when I'm referring to funders and donors, I'm kind of referring to, you know, these sort of, these categories. And let's start first with corporations. And why do they give? And it's basically in making activities, whether it be educational programs, street fairs, things like that, possible. And they're doing this because it's in their best interest to give. They're looking to, as I say here, improve their employees' quality of life. You know, if they have a good neighborhood, you know, their employees will be happy, they'll be happier on the job. But not only that, a good community will also attract better employees, a better skill set of worker. So they're really looking to do that. It's also really good business practice. There is actually a proven direct correlation between social and financial performances. And so, you know, if they're seen as supporting the community, it actually helps their bottom line. And, you know, it also helps, contributions also help increase their name recognition. You know, it garners publicity, it gets their name out there. However, you know, they negotiate with the nonprofit to do that. Now, how do they give? And there's a variety of ways. I mean, there's outright or matching gifts, which are basically cash.   So that's what's going to be there. Facilities use, they might have a conference room that you can use for board meetings or workshops and that kind of thing. In-kind gifts, you know, computer equipment, office supplies, or maybe they'll provide the food for a benefit for you. And then sponsorship, which is sort of the one that most of us are aware of. Now, how do you find them? And you need your research tools. Now, keep in mind that their giving capability or giving capacity is equivalent to their corporate earnings. If a company is doing well, they're much more able to give. And I'm seeing a question here about in-kind and pro bono. Pro bono is basically doing sort of free services.   So hopefully that will help answer Casey's question. Anyway, all right. So let me get back here, let me get back to my notes. Another thing, too, is to compare companies. You know, if a particular industry is doing really well, then, you know, the companies within that industry are also going to be doing particularly well. So really look to that. You know, look at press releases, look at SEC filings. You know, again, it goes back to that it's all about name recognition and getting their name out there. So they're going to announce it, they're sponsoring something. There's going to be things around the community that will show, illustrate that, you know, that they're giving to something. You know, we in here in New York, you see the Banners on Light polls all the time, that kind of thing. There are various websites where you can get information about a company, Edgar's, Hoover's, Yahoo Financial. Some of them, well, actually, I don't know about Yahoo Financial, but Edgar's and Hoover's do require a subscription, but you can get some general information without having to pay. Another place to look is community websites. There is, you know, corporate foundations or, you know, their community involvement are usually on a company website under community or about us is in there. So even if there's no actual foundation, that is where you might see what programs or initiatives the corporation has made possible. Also look at their annual reports. There will be something there about, you know, if they've given, if they've sponsored anything, their community involvement, that kind of thing. Also look at smaller companies in your community. Your local chamber of commerce, your CDCs and your business bureaus are all places you can get information about local companies and smaller companies in the community. And also I should note that the BBB, the Better Business Bureau, is also a really good source of workshops on nonprofit, you know, nonprofit law, nonprofit practice. I know there were some questions on Mondays about getting tax exempt status. They, sometimes the BBB will help you in there as well. So really do check them out. Okay, now let's go on to the helpful hints. One of the things I always say is really think beyond the cash. And this goes back to, I'm seeing some more questions about pro bono versus income, and I'll get to those in a minute. But, you know, really, you know, look at the skills, the products, the other services they can donate. But also to look at their employees. Their employees are a source of volunteers for you. They're a source of board members. They're people you can talk to for advice.  They may also have contacts at foundations and that kind of thing. So there's a lot of things that you can do beyond cash. Don't forget the little guy. You know, when one thinks of corporations, one immediately thinks of the big ones. You know, Microsoft, American Express, Goldman. And I've had countless clients say to me, I want to go to Goldman. And I will say, okay, that's very nice. You can do that. But you're really going to wind up getting Bupkis.  So in this case, kind of in a way, doesn't apply to you. But, you know, unless you are a major institution in the community, they're really not going to know you. And they're not going to be able to get from you what they need. So this is why I say, you know, look at your local businesses. And, you know, reports have also shown that three-quarters of corporate arts funding comes from smaller businesses. So you aren't actually going to have a much better chance of getting it. And, you know, the reason for this is because they see it as an expansion in their investment in the community.  They have more to gain from it. And hence, they'll probably be much more approachable. Also, too, you know, a collections care project can help, you know, benefit, you know, your museum's exhibitions, all of that kind of stuff, which will help bring in people and thus increase tourism. And that too is better for hotels, restaurants, and shops. And one of the things we have with one of my clients is we have a sort of neighborhood partners thing where, you know, the museum will have a sheet with recommended restaurants and that kind of thing. And the counter, you know, restaurants and what have you will have a brochure about the museum by their register. So you get this mutually beneficial arrangement. Also, it is impersonal. It's business. So you can't talk to them about this wonderful object that you need conserved or collection you need digitized. They're really not going to care about that as much as they're going to care about how you support their bottom line and how funding you will support their bottom line.  You know, how can you help them reach their target audience? Sorry. You know, a paint store can really help you if you're doing interior or exterior painting. You know, sell something to them to make them understand how it will improve their market and their business better. And find the right fit. You know, can your mission help theirs? You know, what are their funding interests? You know, where you need funding, how can that feed into that? And also, look at how the little guys, how you can help them as well. You may need a quick sip of water. So then we move on to the brainstorm session. Again, these are questions you can think about as you're thinking about how you're going to go about approaching a corporation. And again, you know, it's that business mindset. You know, use marketing techniques to pique their interest. Show the profit they'll be making by quote-unquote investing in your project. You know, figure out how you fit into their corporate strategy. And speak their language, markets, clients, return on investment, tangibles, that kind of thing. You know, that's the way they're used to thinking and talking. So talk to them on their level. But the one question I did want to talk a little bit about is what you can or can't bring to the negotiating table. And in the past, we often thought in terms of the name on, you know, the name on the wall.  And it's changed now, because the market crash has done a lot. And the fact is we don't know what the other wants anymore. We want to make a leadership role in this. Ask them what their goals are. Express what yours are. And then find the areas of alignment and build from there. And the key is really to start with what you can offer. Both parties, you know, need to understand each other's limitations. So if you kind of discuss it first, put aside what you can't do. And then you can really focus in on what you can do. And you can start the negotiations from there. All right, that is all I have on corporations. So I'm going to ask now if anybody has any questions we want to talk about before we move on. Yes, we do have a question about pro bono versus in-kind. Brittany in Indiana says, if you have an accountant doing pro bono work for your museum, do they need to stop counting that work as an in-kind gift? Not necessarily.  But I also think that in many ways they're kind of interchangeable on some levels. And I think, you know, when you're doing your reporting, whether it be for your audit, your 990, that kind of thing, it's really how they class it rather than, you know, how you class it. So I think, you know, if you're doing it as an in-kind rather than pro bono, you're fine. Okay. And then we had another question about the, sorry, I'm losing it. In Pennsylvania, is it wise to ask competing firms for support? No, not at all. It depends on, because, I mean, if you look at, you know, sponsorships of events or sponsorships of galleys and things, you know, you'll often see a variety of corporations that are buying tickets at a particular level or that kind of thing. I mean, I think what the difference would be is what kind of agreement you negotiate with each of them. And again, like I said, it goes back to figuring out what you can and can't bring to the table.   So you'll have a major one, I don't know, Bank of America, let's say, who may get those signs up on the flagpole.  But if they're giving less money to that same exhibit, they may just get the name on the wall. So it really kind of plays in terms of what they're giving, how much they're giving, and what you negotiate with them individually. And we have one more question. I think you might address this in our next webinar. The question is, is it best to go several times to the same person to demand funds? Um, it can depend. And I talk about this a little bit later in terms of cultivating foundations. And basically, you know, sometimes you can go and that no can be a way to start the process in starting to get that fund or foundation government agency corporation interested in you and to learn more about you. Sometimes that proposal, even if it's a cold one, is sort of the first step. And you know you're going to get the no, but you get it in there anyway, because that starts the process. The only time I would really say not to go back is if they've basically said go away. Or, you know, no, we're not interested, we're not funding you, we don't want the projects. You know, we've gotten our grabs from us and that's it. So unless you've gotten a real no from them, you know, we don't want to hear from you anymore that, you know, would be it. Okay. And I have a question from Ken, but I think we can hold it until our next break. Okay. All right. Sounds good. All right. So then since we're done with corporations, we're going to move on to foundations. And I know everyone kind of knows what it is, but I just thought I would pop up a little definition. And that basically, you know, there are nonprofits as well that are geared to give money away to other nonprofits. So back to what Kelsey was saying about the, you know, the tax exempt status, what's known as 501c3, IRS exemption, you need to have this in order to qualify. And in various types of foundations, there's community, there's professional, there's family, there's corporate, there's trust. And that's really just a matter of how they're set up and sometimes it's how they give away money. All right. So what kind of money donated? You know, you need to kind of figure out what kind of grant you're looking for. An unrestricted grant is basically for general operating support.  And I know there was a question on Monday about this, and yes, foundations do fund general operating support, but it's becoming harder to get in the current economic climate. More funders are considering projects that have specific impact and much better investment. And I'll discuss that a little bit more about that later. But I should also mention that some foundations do allow a certain percentage of grant funds to be used for administrative costs. You know, staff salaries, that kind of thing, people who are associated with that project. And you also get a little general operating support through your project funding grant.  A restricted is for a specific program or project, and the funds can't be used for another purpose. I mean, at least with that, not without the permission of the donor. There's seed money, but those building grants are not for programs. They're about getting institutional change. So if you're looking to do a technological upgrade, and I saw a lot of comments about past perfect the other day, that kind of is what a capacity building grant could help you get if you don't have it, or you're looking to upgrade it, that kind of thing. These fund strategic planning initiatives, the size of your board, hiring consultants like me to help you develop your fundraising plans and that kind of thing. Temporary positions. These are grants that are really there to help you grow your organization. Capital support is building renovation and construction projects. Endowment, which, most of you I'm sure know what those are, your principal grift is invested and you use the income for whatever it is that you need to use it for. And usually, you know, it's a 5% take off of the income. Matching and challenge grants. This is when a funder, the NEH has a challenge grant program, you know, if you're challenged to raise a specific amount of money, and if you do, you get the grant. And what the great thing is they're not matching or challenged and there's even reimbursable grants too where you spend the money first and then get it back. And the really good thing about these is they really help you leverage other funding.  You know, we've been given a challenge from the NEH, won't you help us match it? And you do it in a variety of ways and it's really your troops, so to speak. And get people giving to you. Now just another, I'm going to pop in another poll here. Jenny. There she is. Let me know if you can't see all of these. Okay. All right. That should be good. What's your biggest issue is you're looking for funders. You know. I figured the first one would probably be the best thing. They were to find them. Okay. Okay, great. So the first two is kind of where, oh, actually no, the fourth one. Okay, great. We're going to be discussing a lot of this. That's really helpful. Great. Next question is, excuse me, how do you find the funders? And that was sort of one of the things. And, you know, you need to do the research to find it. You know, other than the fact that they appear on your doorstep. Fund research is going to tell you if your project fits their guidelines. You know, foundations, corporate foundations, government agencies, and I'm going to pull those all together as funders, as I say. You know, they all have guidelines that describe the specific areas they fund, the types of projects they fund, that kind of thing. So you can really see if your project is a good fit. You know, it'll help you see what is required to apply. I mean, do they require a letter of inquiry first? You know, are their attachments required? Do they want to see your 501C3 letter? And where do you send it?  Some of them have online applications. So all of that information is there. It'll also tell you your average grant size, which is, you know, key. You don't want to go to a funder. And, you know, if their average grant is $5,000, if you ask them for 15, you're not going to get it because that's not in their giving capacity or it's not the average grant they give. So when you're figuring out how much to ask for, you really want to stay within their average giving. The assets. This is, and this is key. You know, how much do they give away annually? How much do they set aside for administrative costs? You know, if the assets have increased or declined in recent years, you know, has that had an impact on their giving capacity? You know, do you see that the gift size is going down as a result of it? So that's all things you want to know. Another thing is their stock holdings. And believe it or not, stock holdings can actually give you a generalized idea of their overall philosophy.  So how do we go, how do we find where they come from? And here's a list of the things I will be discussing. And the first thing I want to start with is the Foundation Center's online directory. Now, for really detailed information, you are going to require a subscription to this. But I found out, as of like two days ago they have recently come out with something called FDO Free. And it is, and you have to write this down because it's not on your class resources. It is fdo.foundationcenter.org. Again, that's fdo.foundationcenter.org. And if I could talk and type at the same time, I'd put it in the chat box. But basically what this allows you to do is to search the profiles of about 90,000 private foundations by name or location. What it won't allow you to do, thank you, Laura, what it won't allow you to do is do subject searches or more detailed searches. So, but at least if you know a foundation you're particularly interested in looking for, you can go in there and at least top in that foundation's name and write their directory record for it. So now if you do have a subscription and you log in and everything, there are several different pages you can use. And I'm going to try the arrow now.  That's one of the ones that's highlighted in this version. If you want to do your state funders, your county, city, all of that, but also what's interested here and not part of free, unfortunately, is you can do things like fields of interest. So you can plug in art conservation, conservation art, museums, historic preservation, historical societies or if you're a farming museum you can plug in agriculture. You can do that online. And if you're not sure how to do it, if you look really closely under there and I hope you can see it, there's a little tab marked called View Index. And you can hit that and get a huge alphabetical listing of all the fields of interest that the foundations that they have records for in their database cover. So the same thing you can do, too, with type support. If you're looking for capacity building grants, management grants, all of that can be found under type support. Geographic focus again goes back to a lot of this. If you know someone who is who might be a trustee of a foundation, you can search them this way. So it's very user-friendly and very easy because the View Index is there and will really help guide you along. Another thing you can do is search grants.  All right. And then, let's see, again, I'm going to get rid of the arrow, you'll get the list of results and I did a search on the Bay and Pole Foundations here and you can get where they are located, their assets and their giving. And then once you click on that, then you will get the record. And I'm sorry I had to do this in several things, but I realized if I tried to do the whole thing in one, it would be too tiny and you wouldn't be able to see it. So here is their application, their financial data summarized and also where it links to their Form 990 form which I will discuss in a minute and application information, contact information if it's there. Then you have their donors, some of them have put in economic crisis information if they have it, and there are limitations, which is something we'll discuss in a minute that you pay attention to. This is where you'll see things like no support for political organizations, doesn't accept applications and those kinds of things will be there. And I'm seeing Lori's question from Beth, and yes, you can, some libraries, even some public libraries do have subscriptions to the Foundation Center's library. So you can go to their libraries if you have them in your area, sometimes cooperating collections do have them as well. But then again, like I said, some public libraries have it as well. All right. Anyway, going back to this, their purpose, their fields of interest, again, there's their geographic focus, their application procedures if they have one, their officers and then what's also, financial data. So you can see sort of grant ranges here and here. How much their total giving is. What you may see is the difference between sort of the expenditures and the total giving. That's because they're able to take so much off for administrative costs. But also too, what you get with this is selective grants. So you can really see giving two homes in for what kind of projects. Now, once this is done, your next step is to, you know, this is a good way to help you figure out who you think might be a good prospect. Once you get from there, then go to the Foundation's websites. And, you know, this was what will give you more in-depth information on the Foundation's mission, their philosophies behind their funding, the types of programs or projects they fund. You know, better application, a procedure, information, usually. They may, you know, they may want a letter of inquiry first. And a letter of inquiry is basically a two to three page document that summarizes who you are, what your ask is, what the project is.  Restrictions. You know, if they say there's no funds for endowment, no funds for capital campaigns, no funds to individuals which you see an awful lot of. And it also gives you the grants awarded lists. So you'll be able to see, you know, grant size, types of organizations supported. And you need to be careful here, because if you see a Foundation with a prospect, but you're seeing, you know, that they give to the same people every single year, and they're not taking in anything, you know, and taking on any new grantees, they're not looking for new grantees. And there's actually a few foundations out there that their mission is to fund the same, you know, 17, 20, 25 organizations year in and year out. Another thing that is important, and that's important because, you know, that helps board-to-board connections are a great way to get into a foundation that may not accept applications. Now what do you do if they don't have a website? And that's a lot of smaller family foundations often don't. And that's where the Form 990 comes in. And I showed this screen because this is one of the free things from the Foundation Center.  And that will take you to a page where you can, you know, pop in the name of the foundation you're looking for and you will get their 990s from the last 10 years or so. And basically what a 990, the foundation's IRS filing is their tax form basically, and it's all public document information. And it'll tell you what grants they've made that year so you can know how much they give and how are they giving. It'll tell you their assets. Again, you know, they've increased or declined in recent years. They're stock holdings. You can also use to see if there's any changes in administration. They sometimes provide application procedures. And it's often good to check even, you know, if you're getting great information from the foundation center's paid records to even double check the 990 because sometimes the information in the 990 is much more up to date than the directory online. Other things that you can look for to find foundations that might be interested in funding, you know, annual reports or donor lists from other organizations. I look at these all the time to see who's giving to whom, you know, and particularly preservation organizations. I'm looking at their annual report to see a lot of times the listings are there and they have the monetary amounts so I can see who is giving, you know, how much and all of that. You know, donor lists from other organizations, the back of the programs and that kind of thing. Social media. I mean, look at your colleague organizations and see what, you know, they're posting on their Facebook status what they're tweeting, that kind of thing. They may be using that to announce a grant or an award. And then press releases too. The foundations will, you know, do a press release when they've sent out grantees. I mean, I know IMLS has just announced their Museums for America awards all done through a press release. The foundations will also do that as well. So really look for those.  So, you know, get those because some of them have helpful hints that can give you a lot of information about what the foundation is funding but also who they're funding and how much. Now, the language of foundations or foundations speak and when you're going through your research you will see a lot of this. And you'll see things like foundations only to pre-rejected organizations. You know, funding, fill-in-the-blank initiatives only. You'll also see doesn't accept applications, unsolicited requests will be rejected. Why is this? Usually it's a foundation capacity. They may not have the staff to deal with all of the requests. So they really try to limit it. But also too, there is a growing emphasis right now on strategy and social impact. And so foundations are kind of designing their own theories of change and strategies and then either implementing the programs themselves or selecting organizations from which they are willing to entertain proposals because they know those organizations will help them meet their strategic goals. So there's a lot of that going on. Another thing, you'll see again going back to the geographic focus if they, they're not safe specifically they're funding Alaska and during Colorado they're not going to fund you. You know, even, you know, if it goes down to town, if it goes down to county, state, whatever. So you really need to look at that. Again, going back to those limitations, you know, we don't accept proposals. All of that, you really need to look at that. And then also too look for that letter of inquiry accepted. And, you know, if they're interested in hearing about new projects, they will accept those and be careful too because a lot of foundations actually have very specific ways they want their letter of inquiries done and they have specific guidelines for those as well, not just for proposals. So for these rules there are exceptions. Of course there are. You know, sometimes if a foundation is not taking applications, you know, if you've got a mutual board member, then the board member can speak to the foundation on your behalf. When guidelines are changing, this has been happening a lot lately with the market crash. You know, foundations are changing their guidelines so they're open to proposals that from organizations they haven't funded in the past. Similarly, if it, you know, they're new to the community or you're new to the community, you know, as an introductory, they might, you know, want to talk to you and get proposals from you in order to see, you know, what projects are out there and what's going on. And also talk to them. If you've got a project that may not fit their guidelines but, you know, because they are your supporter, you know, they may be receptive to your request. Helpful hints.  Make sure your projects fit into that and illustrate that in your text.  You're helping them advance theirs. Know the guidelines before you speak to the program officer. They don't really want to get you on the phone to tell you their guidelines. You know, you want to be able to ask them educated questions. You can use many of the same techniques to cultivate foundations as you do individuals. And I know Kelsey is going to be talking about individuals but the only difference here that I want to talk about is that the strategies are not donor-centric as they would be with individuals but they are mission-centric. Again, it goes back to that aligning with their missions. You know, grants begin with relationships too and it's even true for government agencies. You know, most of the successes I have had have been when I have talked to that program officer about a project first, sought their feedback and worked with them rather than sending them something cold. And you know, so how do you start creating these relationships? You know, it's find someone who knows a board foundation board member, a staff person or any other connection that can help you get you in the door. And these can even be remote. It doesn't necessarily have to be your board member knows their board member. You know, run the names of the foundation trustees regularly and asked your own board to seek out possible connections. But it's not necessarily about who they know. It could be about whom they know knows. So it really has them to expand their network. If they know someone who knows someone. It's a great way to help make those connections. Or you can even crack what's known as an exploratory letter. And you know, note that you know they don't take unsolicited proposals but you know, our mission aligns with yours and we thought you might like to know about us. That kind of thing. And another thing too is keep the program officers in the loop. And this goes back to if you've get the know. Really, you know, keep them in the loop. Let them know what's going on with you. You know, if you've gotten other funding for a project let them know about it. Let them know if it was a success. And it really helps them keep them aware about what's going on with you. Now our words of warning. Again, it kind of goes back to what I said before. Don't create a project to fit their guidelines. I mean, they will see through that. And more important, anything, you know, okay fine, if you get the funding. Then you're doing a project that may not necessarily fit your mission. And what are you going to do when the money drives up? That foundation is going to want you to continue that project and you're not going to be able to. So really, you know, find the ones where your project fits the guidelines. And, you know, as I say, the second one, don't approach it if the project doesn't.  And again, go back to, you know, don't request grants beyond their given capacity. You're not going to get it. And if they say, if you read through everything, and they say they don't want phone calls, then don't call them. They really don't want to be bothered. You know, you're not the exception to the rule. Now, on internet searches, I always like to do a few words of warning in here, too. You know, it's a great resource. We know it. But in many ways, you can start hitting link after link after link, and suddenly you're going down a road of inconsequential information. So really focus it as you're going through and doing your research. You know, get away from the computer. There's much more beyond the web.   Look at donor walls, newspaper inserts, entertainment sections, event programs, libraries. There's so many other forms of donor recognition that aren't necessarily on the web. And then don't forget the people resources around you. You know, talk to your internal stakeholders. Sorry, I need to drink a water. Your staff, your volunteers, you know, they may know good prospects. They may know people who might be interested at funding. You know, they can be a very invaluable way to establish linkages.  Hang on.  You're looking for that. But the fact of the matter is that there are very few of those. So when you're researching, think much broader beyond collections and really start looking at what's in your collections.  So here are some questions to help you there. Now on that note, I'm going to take another sip of water. Are there any questions about foundations before I move on to government? Oh, Susan, we have tons of questions. So a lot of the questions are about the foundation online directory. Ah, okay. And it is a paid subscription. It looks like Lori chimed in. There were some questions about how much it costs. She says through her research it was about $195 to $1295 a year. Does that sound about right? That sounds about right. And basically there are different levels of how much information you can get. The cheaper ones you have, fewer foundations you can support. I forget what the distinctions are between the levels of membership. But one may have, you know, $75,000, one may have $90,000, one may have $100,000, that kind of thing. And also in terms of the breadth of information you can get. The general stuff is all there. But if you want to get like corporate records and that kind of thing then you'll need to go up on the higher levels. Okay. And a lot of folks are chiming in about ways to get access to this online directory without paying that big cost you had mentioned going to a local library. Some folks in larger institutions can go through their main development office and a few people have mentioned TechSoup as a spot to get discounted subscriptions. So I just wanted to mention those. Melissa did have a question. She's curious about GrantStation. She says it's $99 on TechSoup. Have you heard about GrantStation? I have not heard about GrantStation. But there are a lot of them. And the reason why I focus on the Foundation Center's directory is it's sort of the cream of the crop basically. I mean that's where everybody goes. That's where the most information is. I mean GuideStar 2 has a lot of wealth of information but it's not at the same level Charity Navigator 2. So I mean that's why I do it because it is sort of the cream of the crop but there are others out there. And again it goes back to whatever sort of works for you using it as that starting point. So I'm able to do a search on a subject matter like our conservation and see what's out there and then go from there. That's what they're very good, they're critical to use for. Great. And then just one quick question we had was is it only U.S. foundations or is it international? It's only U.S. for the one I am showing and I have what it is. There are international databases as well. Okay. I can look those up. I may be able to put those on the text afterwards or in the resource afterwards but they are sort of country specific. I know there's one in the U.K. that is also available and as far as other countries go I'm sure there are. There is the International Council of U.S. Foundations I believe it's called that may have information there on that but I can add that to the resources afterwards because I noticed there were a lot of overseas folks taking this. Okay. And then we had Leah Ann who was curious she had heard of an expensive directory used by some libraries for finding grants. Do you think that the FDO is absolutely the FDO? Like I said it is the cream of the crop and it ain't cheap but there are ways to do it because you can set it up so there can be multiple users so if you're in a community with several institutions you might be able to pull your resources together and share a subscription and I forget I think mine has up to three there can be up to three users at a time. So that might be a consideration to help keep the costs down. But again the FDO free is also a really great way I know you can't do subject searches and all of that but at least if you see a foundation name on the wall you can go in and plug that in and at least get the information that way as well. They really started that maybe last week so it's very brand new. And just one last question please use Curious if you have any specific advice on finding and getting endowment fund grants. It really excuse me depends on the funders some will fund endowments some will not and there are challenge grants like the NEH Challenge Grant can be used for endowment so you really have to look at the funder and because they are usually such large gifts or large grants it's a conversation with that foundation. I mean when I have raised endowment money it's always been a long discussion with the foundation before. The last one I did was 1.5 million I think and it was a lengthy conversation with the foundation before we got there and we got the grant. So if you have a prospect in mind see if they are willing to consider an endowment grant and if they are then talk about what it would be for you know are you endowing a position are you endowing a collections care initiative or whatever it is you're endowing and then really start having that conversation with the foundation. Great thank you Susan I'm going to hold on we've got a few more questions but I will hold on to them until your next break. Okay great alright let's go on to government. Okay and here we are now the thing about researching government grants is there really isn't much you can do it's all there and you know it's everything is really clearly stated in the guidelines you know the programs the types of projects they fund or not fund their application requirements the grants are rewarded everything it's all there and the best place to start if you're looking for at the federal level is grants.gov and this is a page that lists funding opportunities by agency or subject matter it's where announcements are posted where you can download applications it's also what you use to apply it's all done through grants.gov and I just thought I would plug up a few of the usual suspects much as I hate using that phrase you know the NEA the IMLS the NHPRC I always have to slow down for that one are you sort of the usual collections care federal funders but also too look at the Department of Education look at the Department of the Interior if you're a science or an environmental museum look at the National Science Foundation there's a lot of much more broader things out there on the federal level and look for and another thing too is don't think just federal I mean look at your state historic preservation offices your SHPO offices the parks department if you're doing a building restoration project sometimes they have funding for that your state archives your state library councils on the humanities councils on the arts State Department of EDGE your CLG grants because they're really they're government they have to be transparent so it's all readily available and then two look at your local, your county, your town governments that kind of thing now a word of warning on government grants and this is again at the federal level don't wait until the last minute to register with Grants.gov you need to register with the site you are basically registering yourself as a vendor to the federal government it's how you get your money if you get the grant and it takes about two weeks to do so if you try to go register for Grants.gov on that day the application is due you're not going to be able to submit to your application it's not going to you're not going to have been processed through the system yet and look to the states levels as well a lot of states are also taking on similar types of online application procedures that you would need to register for first I'm right now in the middle of doing a bunch of them for my New York state clients so just keep that in mind it does take a while to get yourself into the system now the helpful hints for government agencies they are very clear about what they want so really follow the guidelines they have very specific questions answer those specific questions and I often say when I'm teaching grant writing workshops if they ask how does the project demonstrate the sky is blue start the sentence with the project demonstrates the sky is blue by don't make them look for the information lay it out there very clearly use their questions in your answers use the same language it's fine really give them what they want also as I said before involve the program officer let you know talk to them about the project some of them will take a draft proposal you know I think it's over six to eight weeks before the deadline depending on the agency you know and they will read through it and give you comments so you know really do help it does help to involve them also too you want to look at the agency focus you know the NEH really wants projects that ensure elections and bolster the humanities so make sure that your project you know can do that for them the IMLS has come out with a strategic plan about a year year and a half ago I guess it was you know they want projects that help fulfill the goals of their plans and the NEA which is right now is kind of in flux because they're looking for a new head but you know for years they under you know Rocco Laddusman's directorship they were all about creative place making looking for projects about that now I'm going to take another breather and see if there's any questions about government agencies I know I went through that really quickly but like I said there isn't a real lot you can do so so if there are any questions before we go on to the magic list because I know you all want that magic list yeah like I have too to throw at you Connie is curious about capacity building grants are those new she hadn't heard the term before isn't capacity building another way of phrasing professional development yes and no to answer the second question first capacity building grants can be used for professional development of your staff they can be used for staff training but capacity building there's also what they used to refer to them as is sort of management related projects and that kind of thing I think capacity building came out as a phrase maybe about 10 years ago maybe a little less than that I'm not sure but yeah it's been around for a while and that's it's really I mean if you look at you know various searches for them they it'll come up as capacity building slash management slash professional development so they're all kind of classed into the same thing but what it really comes about as I said is institutional growth institutional advancement that kind of thing okay and then one more question we just got in from Meryl can religious institutions get a government grant for their archive it really depends and that's a question for a program officer a lot of foundations a lot of government agencies do not fund religious institutions but that said there are some grants that do for a long time the New York State preservation grants were funding churches now they're because of the changes which I'll talk about a little bit they're not but so yeah so you really need to have a conversation sometimes it's better if the church has a 501c3 separate and they can put in the request for the grant I have one client out in Brooklyn that does that they have a separate 501c3 so it's not the church applying itself so again you know really talk to the program officer about that great and Susan let me just throw this at you before we move too far past capacity building grants Sarah is curious if something like that could help a non-profit hire its first executive director Camilla is curious if capacity building encompasses board development and strategic planning yes to the last two it does indeed as for funding an ED position it would depend on the funder I have to say some do some don't so but I think if you are able to apply for an executive director position I think the key is you really need to make the case that demonstrates that it's about institutional growth that you're at that point where you can't move much further unless you get somebody in that directorship role and that will help you then move forward as an organization great thank you okay all right right now we're going to go to another poll so and I'm going to ask this may be redundant in regard to all the questions that have been coming through but has anybody actually searched for art conservation on the foundation center's directory online interesting a lot of you haven't okay all right good go on to the next that's great thanks Jenny okay sorry didn't mean to do that now when you do at least with my membership you come up with a real minimal number of funders and what I often find entertaining about it is that usually what's missing are the real major funders of museums and conservation the Mellon foundation the Samuel H. Kress Sherman Fairchild and even the bigger corporate donors like Bank of America don't show up when you fund art conservation so then usually what follows next is the we need a magic list so there is your magic list this is the library of congress and foundation center book foundation grants for preservation and libraries archives and museums 2010 is the most recent edition what this does is basically a book of foundation center searches and you know it lists all the foundations that it's given to preservation and conservation by state and within it you have hot links to take you to foundation sites and there's also tutorials on grant writing the website for this that you can download is in the resources list but there is a caveat to this there's a lot of one-time gifts in this and there's a lot of gifts to the world monuments fund so what you're seeing is it's just everything it's not necessarily giving you the names of foundation that are specifically interested in preservation or conservation so like the foundation directory I can't stress this is a good starting point but you really need to dig in further to find a genuine interest in what it is you want to do alright so now what I want to do a little bit and I'm watching my time here is I want to talk about some of the funders out there in terms of interest and limitations and that kind of thing and all the ones I'm mentioning and even some of the ones I haven't the links to their websites are in the resources so I'm going to start first with those that fund conservation and you know Bay and Paul still funds treatment the true optimum conservation grant will fund up to about $4,000 plus they will donate glazing for frames and cases and this is a grant that's administered through the foundation of the American Institute for Conservation so again websites in the resources the COBE funds textile related projects and collections only so again look at their collection contents and see who's interested in those materials the National Trust for Historic Preservation has the preservation fund has the Favrot fund the Mitchell fund for historic interiors and these are all what are known as technical assistance grants they're not going to fund bricks and mortar or treatment per se but what they are going to do is give you the funding to bring someone in to help you get started so you know if you're looking for someone to help you do a historic structure report or a scope of work for a building project if you want someone to help you design a new exhibition or hire a fundraising consultant that kind of thing that's where the National Trust grants come in and if you're at his house or you want to do work on your interiors the Mitchell fund is a very good grant for that there is some that require chapter memberships the Questers is an organization for as I quote them are folks who enjoy history and antiques and they have funding support for conservation for their members the same with the and other genealogical groups the daughters part of their mission is preservation so they have a fund for special projects that you know their chapters can apply for and maybe you have a DAR member who would be willing to go to bat for you there is also regranting programs these are non-profits who get a grant to give away the money so like the conservation center in Philadelphia Lee Price the last webinar in the series his organization will give out money for preservation needs assessment the Greater Hudson Heritage Network gives out conservation treatment grants in New York same as the preservation league of New York has their preserve New York grant again their technical assistance grants Connecticut does as well so I mean really look at you know other organizations and see if they you know because a lot of them out there do re-grant so you know you can really see what they're out there for there are others that have very specific focus the Grammy Foundation funds you know preservation of recorded sound Costume Society is obviously costumes National Film Preservation is you know again you know they fund the preservation of film Florence Gold Foundation is funds things French it's the only way I can put it so if you have a collection of French furniture that needs conserving or you know you're doing a French related exhibition kind of thing Florence Gold is a good prospect for you and Delmas is for things Venetian so you know those are good as well the council is good for cataloging processing of hidden collections that as they refer to are currently not usable and they will give funding not for treatment but to help you catalog and process collections and they're not just you know library material, printed material ephemera they really you know they they're broad you know coins, ceramics, glass textiles you know they will consider it it's really about you know getting something that no one you know can't use it right now nothing's usable and getting it out there there are also foundations that have a graphical focus the Americana Foundation focuses on decorative arts but they fund in Michigan 1772 gives out small Brooks and Mortar for pointing and window repair and that kind of thing but again there's specific states and then you know you have again like your historical trust and commissions that also give up out you know grants for this specific thing now this is when I walk in and I notice this on Monday there are tons of archaeological sites now one of the things I would say is you know wherever your dig is in Albania you know there are funders who give to specific countries and are interested in projects in specific countries like I do a lot of work with American friends of organizations in the United Kingdom so I will look for foundations or what have you that fund you know have an interest in England or have an interest in Britain and that kind of thing so you can actually do you know searches based on country alone again it goes back to that geographic focus now the government agencies again I'm not going to talk about these too much you know the institute the IMLS institute museum and library services you know they have various grants that are geared towards collection care they used to have the conservation project support grants was a separate program they were rolled into their museums for America grants about I guess it was the last grad cycle so maybe about a year ago now the NEH has several you know if you're a smaller institution they have grants to help you you know they don't fund treatment but they do help you begin planning furniture, environmental monitoring equipment that kind of thing you know the other the sustaining cultural heritage humanities collections and reference resources are about you know planning and implementing sustainable preventive measures humanities collections is about increasing access or improving access and the let me go back for one second I'm sorry I'm looking at my notes this is why I need to read my notes the key to the IMLS is really at their strategic plan and figure out how your project align with it you know how does your project help fulfill their collection stewardship goals so really it's online it's on their website you can really go in and look and see what it is they want NEH is really about projects that ensure access to collections and bolster the humanities and you know the key to NEH nowadays is they're really looking for more bang for their buck they do a lot of individual object treatment and projects and that kind of things but now they're looking at poll collections what can you do to preserve an entire collection so they're really more about preventive conservation than actual treatment so those are things to keep in mind another thing the NEH likes is to see that conservators collection managers curators whomever are at the lead table so they really want to see collection care initiatives as an organizational strategy so you know not just in a departmental one so really explain how that your project is actually benefits the whole organization rather than just your department NEA again as I said there's a lot of changes happening there whenever we get a new head for them but you know again a lot of their projects now have been creative place making and that falls a lot into economic impact which I will discuss in a few minutes and the NHPRC obviously it's about processing historical documents archives is that kind of thing now how much do you ask for I get this a lot the main concern when you're soliciting a donor is sort of that gift side it really depends on whom you're asking their relationship with the organization the purpose of the gift and what you know of their giving history so again that request amount will come out of your research look at their actual grant size and work from there my helpful hints for this is really don't sell yourself short you know ask for what your research has shown you the donor is capable of giving don't think asking for less will make them say yes people know what things cost so if you lobel a project thinking that will help you get the funding they're actually going to be saying how are they going to be able to do this with this little bit of money people know what they cost so really hit it where you think they would be able to give if you get a no and Barbara is going to be discussing Barbara Lilly will be discussing this in her webinar on October 3 but I would like to just say you know use a why to further your conversation you know would you know ask the funder why were we turned down if it's a government agency what did the evaluators say and that kind of thing so really use that as I said you know talk to them they're perfectly happy to help you now Jenny before I go back into the last section do we have any more questions about any of this I've seen a lot of things popping up I see one about is it appropriate to apply as an individual most don't accept applications from individuals but some do it really depends on the foundation but go ahead we also have another question from Ronnie who is curious about is there funding for succession planning under strategic planning and that would be a capacity building grant okay and then we did have a question about TrueView whether or not it was a U.S. only grant or funding opportunity and it does look like it's only U.S. yeah I think I believe so I mean I think it's very hard for I mean unless for the most part American foundations you know government agencies they can't give overseas but for American foundations they really need that 501c3 status in order to fund you they really can't fund abroad the way most organizations abroad have gotten around that is setting up 501c3s in America and you usually see those under the American friends I worked for the American friends of the London Philharmonic I worked for the American friends so so yeah so sometimes you know if there is that that connection you can do it I mean another way to do it as well would be going through what's known as a fiscal sponsor if you're willing you know if a American 501c3 is willing to serve as your fiscal sponsor your fiscal conduit so basically the money would be going to them and then they would be giving it to you again there are various laws about this so you would have to really have that conversation with whomever you want to you know ask to sponsor you but you know that is another way to go about doing it okay and you guys know our project here our courses are funded through the Institute of Museum and Library Services so we of course have a US but we'll definitely try to do our best to call some of this information from the chat box Todd's been really great about providing resources for folks in Canada so but we are of course we have our US land you know I've seen a little bit of that in the chat box it's like I can't talk and read at the same time sorry that's all I have for you right now Susan okay great alright so now my next bit is sort of closing up because I see we're running low on time and this is the part of the talk where I always say Mary and the coal mine and this is really I'm talking about the new realities of fundraising and you know what people are the trends that are coming out now and you know it's not the same old same old and the first thing is storytelling it's sort of the new fundraising buzzword and again Barbara Lilly will probably be going more into this in her proposal writing seminar on October 3rd but I just wanted to give you a few thoughts so it's very hard to present it so people really understand it and Applebaum and Himmelstein, Paul and Barbara have a great page on their website about demystifying conservation and the links in the resources so you can really look for it there but the real thing about it is is that it's the most successful way of communicating information to a funder is through a story people react more positively to it and helps them comprehend it much better especially if there's no previous knowledge and one of the things that does help you do particularly when you're dealing with conservation is it gets you beyond the hard data I mean you can do a technical condition report but most people aren't going to understand it they're not going to understand the chemistry they're not going to understand why that silk is fragile due to light exposure what's going on inside the fiber to make that happen instead I say to people let's describe the artifacts traveled through time to explain its current condition so in other words you're giving historical meaning to the cracks and losses and it's much more relatable to whomever you're talking to the program officer the panel conveying it to a panel who may be reviewing your grant that sort of thing it's much more easier it also helps make it come alive I love telling the story about Carter's Grove down in Williamsburg where the author owners wrote his horse up this main staircase hitting the banister with his sword and the marks and everything are still there so suddenly it's not just well our banister has these marks in it there's a reason for it and it's much more invigorating and exciting than what's happening to them share don't tell stories I'm going to skip over one for a minute you want people to feel that they're part of the story there's an invitation to share there there's an open feeling community subliminally feel that they can share their stories about particular objects and things in the collection as well and by doing this you can elicit emotional response people get to things they're passionate or emotionally connected to so if you have a volunteer a board member who has a life changing experience with an artifact put that in your proposal because that really helps show that there's much more to it than just we need to take care of this one thing and then going back tell the story of one object not the whole collection it's much easier for people to wrap their heads around make something the spokesperson for your project I always tell the story when I started I actually started out in books and I was working at the Morgan and I opened up this very non-descript Book of Common Prayer and inside it was scribbled this is Charlotte Brabte's book suddenly that became the spokesperson why it was important to help preserve that as well as the other 13,000 books in the room so really think of it that way now another thing is thinking about this in the past it was all about impact and value of the project was about insert, rehoused, improved displays and all of that now we're really looking at community, economic impact, outcomes what is the value of collections beyond the walls and I pop up this quote from the Giving Community a meaningful voice article and again the reference is in the resource list and what it really is talking about is the changing role of museums and that we really need to articulate our value in the community much better how are we contributing to it how are we solving its problem how are we making positive changes beyond the institution walls and by doing that you're creating value and believe it or not money follows value it's not the other way around you don't need the money to create the value if you have value then the money will come and how do you do this you need to show how you're benefiting the community if you're a small museum and for your collections you're creating better content for exhibitions you're creating better historic interpretation and from that you're able to develop better educational programs that can improve a school curriculum you're developing social experiences that can improve the community and remember museums now are viewed not only as educational institutions but also social institutions people are coming there to connect with others so you know really you can do that to show that another way you can show your impact is economic impact and you know there's the direct benefits you know we hear it all the time every dollar invested in tourism generates a $51 return for the private sector so you know there's more employment opportunities better tax revenues more consumer spending they're coming to you but they're also going to the restaurant down the street they're staying at the hotel they're having to park and pay for parking their car they may have had a higher babysitter you know again going back to those indirect benefits you know that in quality of life you know your programs are helping bolster the community the curriculum at local schools you're creating a community much more attractive to skilled workers and businesses and why am I saying this because economic impact is now becoming the raison d'etre for the arts and the eyes of many there's a lot of information out there and in the UK we're hearing a lot of the quote unquote creative economy and what you want is what the funders are wanting now is they're saying that they want to address benefits on a larger scale and particularly one that helps the current state of the economy you know you'll see a lot of investment terminology written and things and this goes back to even the government agencies you know the NEH and the IMLS you know they're about job creation IMLS has it as part of their strategic plan you know the NEA again creative placemaking art as a fostering community rejuvenation on the state level in New York State our preservation grants are now decided on by economic development councils so it's no longer about site significance that you're preserving it's about how many jobs you're creating how many state plans whether it be historic preservation plan watershed management plans you know economic impact of state parks in a particular county you know they want to see all of that referenced so you really you need to kind of start really thinking about that now another thing that they really want to see is engagement and there's two kinds and you'll see in the corner I've got Doug Borwick's blog it's a very good blog and the reference is also in your resources you know audience engagement is something you're probably already doing if you're doing outreach and you're doing programs to bring people in but community engagement is really getting out there and talking about finding out what the community needs you to do and you do that by asking them you know and by doing it it helps bolster your project impact and I see I've got three minutes so I'm going to go really quick into evaluation and this is also two we're seeing much more people want really much more specific evaluation and demonstrated impact so you know what have we done to reach our goals is now becoming what has changed as a result of our work and you know it's no longer about making us unstable artifacts stable it's about those external benefits you know what are your audience improvements and skills, behavior, knowledge, attitudes and for this I highly recommend the IMLS has a shaping outcomes course again the references in your resources do take it because it really does help you figure out how to quantify and qualify your project results and with two minutes to go, Jenny do we have any more questions? Oh we do, we might not get to them all so I may email you some of these okay let's see, this I'm going to ask you this because this did come up on the last webinar too if you have a project in mind and you apply to multiple grants if you get both of those grants do you accept them both, do you accept one of them what are kind of the repercussions of you know taking one and throwing out the other you're not let me do this way, foundations do not want to take back money they've awarded it's a paperwork nightmare for them so what you really need to do is either A, figure out if there's a way you can expand the project as a result of getting two grants and if you do god bless you you're very lucky but or if not the other thing two is is talk to the funders and say you know we've gotten a lot more we'd like to be able to do this as well you know can we use the funding to you know for some other aspect of the project something that's related that kind of thing it's really about having a conversation again with the foundation or agency to figure out what you can do to you know be able to take both grants because like I said they don't want to have to take the money back so they will work with you to help you do that and as I said god bless you if you got two grants very lucky I'm going to quickly pull over a group login so our folks watching in a group can log in so it's really great for us to get an idea of who's attending these live events if you did log in with your first and last name we do have it so don't worry we're marking you down I can't show you apparently that's alright but we do have your name so this is only for folks who are watching together meaning one person has logged in and a bunch of other people who would like to earn that certificate of completion are watching with them so please whoever is closest to the keyboard go ahead and enter in the people in your group now again if you logged in with your first and last name don't worry about it please completely ignore this chat box it looks like our time is up so I'm going to let you guys log in here and thank you all for joining us so much our next one of course will be let's see let me make sure I say it correctly it should be Tuesday October 1st let me make sure I'm telling you guys just correctly no yes Tuesday October 1st Tuesday October 1st thank you at 2 o'clock you'll log in to the same place and I do have about 4 or 5 questions and Susan I'll send them to you on the website Susan thank you so much well thank you and thank you to our audience members everyone take care