The next item of business is a statement by Jenny Will-Ruth on supporting culture in Scotland. The minister will take questions on the issues raised in her statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions. I call on the minister for around 10 minutes. We will shortly hear from the finance secretary on the Scottish Government's budget for the coming financial year. Supporting our economic recovery is vital to our continued navigation out of the Covid pandemic, but there can be no economic recovery without our cultural sector. Many of us will recall at the end of the second lockdown how it felt to experience culture again. There were emotional scenes as people returned to our museums and galleries and as musicians and actors returned to the stage. Supporting Scotland's culture sector to recover and ensuring that access to culture is equitable has never been more important. The culture sector was one of the worst impacted parts of our society by the pandemic restrictions. Following the initial lockdown in May of 2020, GDP for the arts, culture and recreation sector decreased by 56 per cent below pre-pandemic levels. Indeed, the sector has still not fully recovered, with the latest statistics for September of this year showing that GDP for the sector was 12 per cent lower than pre-pandemic levels, compared to just 1 per cent lower for the economy overall. Our museums closed, our theatres shut, and live music could no longer be experienced. However, the pandemic has also shown the incredible ingenuity of Scotland's culture sector. That resilience has been the overarching theme of my meetings with the sector since May. Whether through digitising content or the ventilation of premises, the sector kept going. Our support to digitised content included the creative digital initiative, supported by £1 million of Scottish Government funding. This funding supported creative and cultural businesses to enhance creative opportunities as they responded to Covid-19. Nonetheless, there remain challenges for the sector as it continues to re-emerge from the pandemic. Since the start of the pandemic, the Scottish Government has provided more than £175 million of emergency funding to the culture sector, far in excess of the £97 million of consequentials that we received from the UK Government. I know that providing that support has been a real lifeline to our freelancers, to our venues and organisations. It has allowed libraries to reopen, supported artists to keep working, enabled community cultural activities to continue and also helped to protect children's wellbeing through creative learning. However, the withholding of funding by the UK Government is placing Scottish artists and cultural organisations at a significant disadvantage, compared with their counterparts elsewhere in the UK. The UK Government has recently made further announcements on the allocations in England from £300 million of the cultural recovery funding that is announced in the marked budget. Scotland's culture sector, meanwhile, still awaits its full share of Barnett consequentials. As the Omicron variant continues to make its way through our population, I know that there is a real sense of anxiety in the culture sector. The pandemic has also presented challenges in the form of human behaviour, which naturally has adapted in light of the restrictions. Audience confidence has been affected. Indeed, as the events industry and advisory group told me recently, the current percentages for no-shows are far higher than pre-pandemic, up to 40 per cent in some instances at events. The Scottish Government's business ventilation fund, which launched last month, provides some assistance in the space, allowing audiences to feel safer as they return to live events. The Covid vaccination certification scheme has also given event organisers in Scotland a level of certainty synthesis introduction. It is certainly welcomed that the UK Government is now following suit. The scheme has allowed events to continue, and it has further encouraged and supported audience confidence. The impacts of the pandemic have additionally been magnified by those who created following the Brexit deal that was negotiated by the UK Government last year. Indeed, the end of free movement and the loss of key EU programmes such as Creative Europe has only exacerbated the challenges that are initiated by Covid. The trading co-operation agreement does not contain visa-free mobility arrangements, meaning that creative professionals now have to navigate differing visa requirements and exemptions with significant increased costs and red tape. The Scottish Government has funded arts info point, which is a pilot mobility scheme that helps to provide advice on visa applications, tax and social security. However, there is a limit on what we can do in this space. I raised the matter on two occasions with the former culture minister and the UK Government, and I know that the other devolved Governments have done likewise. However, the obvious solution is that the UK Government negotiates a visa waiver agreement to allow for visa-free touring for musicians. In June of this year, further funding of £25 million was announced to support further rounds of the cultural organisations and venues recovery fund and the performing arts venues relief fund. That included £700,000 for the Trond Theatre in Glasgow, £238,000 for the Beacon Arts Centre in Inverclyde and £1.25 million for Aberdeen performing arts. The support Government had to bluntly get out the door back in May was absolutely crucial. I know that it prevented many organisations from going to the wall. However, the support that Government must now provide needs to better reflect our new landscape. Yesterday, the cabinet secretary announced funding for the Kelvinhall in Glasgow, where we have invested £7.9 million and a £12 million project. That significant investment in the screen sector is helping Scotland to seize opportunities and build sustainable Scottish-based film and television businesses. It is not only about creating state-of-the-art facilities, but it is also about developing and retaining new skills and talent here in Scotland, so that we can make even more high-quality productions right here in Scotland. I am also pleased to announce today that further spend to support the culture sector's recovery will be spent on three distinct areas. First of all, over £4 million of the remaining culture consequentials will be provided to support our innovative culture collective programme. For example, Stellar Quines is creating four creative hubs across Fife to deliver young quines, which is a free-to-access youth theatre activity for young women. The additional funding will support the creative communities network to build its capacity and extend into new communities, but it will also continue to embed on the links developed during the programme's first year. The funding recognises the need to provide direct support to our communities, and it reinforces the central vision of our culture strategy that culture is for everyone. On that note, I was really pleased to meet with the culture conveners group earlier this week to hear directly of the challenges and opportunities of investing in culture in our communities can bring. I hope that the funding will be welcomed by COSLA and I look forward to working with the culture conveners group to further ensure that recovery is rooted in community accessibility. The second amount of funding relates to museums and galleries sector and developing their resilience, so there will be now a £1 million fund available to support that work. I know that, in particular, for many smaller organisations, those investments can make a real difference. The funding is going to help with equipment and adaptations that help to respond to the pandemic, and it will also restart activity as our cultural venues continue to welcome back audiences and visitors. Finally, I will provide £1 million of capital funding this year to support the re-establishment of the Scottish Cranog centre in Kenmore as part of an overall package of £2.3 million for the centre to relocate to a new site following the terrible fire at the centre back in May. The Cranog is a very special place, which is not just a site of significant archaeological interest. It is also a community, it is an educational outreach base, and it is part of the cultural landscape that tells the story of this country. I do not think that I will ever forget being able to hold a piece of fabric that dates from the Iron Age when I visited earlier this year. I know that the fire caused not only devastation to the site itself but significant emotional distress to employees and local people alike. I hope that the funding goes some way to assuring the impassioned director Mike Benson and all the Cranog community that the Scottish Government recognises and values the special role that the centre holds in Scotland's cultural heritage. Despite the devastating impact of the pandemic, culture, creativity and heritage indeed played a vital role in people's lives during lockdown. When none of us could leave our homes, we could at least still experience culture. Whether listening to music or reading a book, the wellbeing impact associated with culture cannot be underplayed in our recovery from the pandemic. On that note, I want to mention just a few of the many examples of where, with Government support, cultural organisations have harnessed the power of creativity to address social isolation and mental health during the pandemic. The National Theatre of Scotland has been tackling social isolation by supporting the cultural and social rights of the LGBTI plus over 50s group and have run a programme aimed at tackling anxiety in teenagers. Scottish Bally have delivered dance programmes tackling mental health and wellbeing for healthcare staff and primary and secondary school pupils. The National Museums of Scotland provided tailored programming to those living with dementia and our support for the arts alive programme run by the Scottish Book Trust and System of Scotland's Big Noise programme has been making a difference to the confidence, resilience and happiness of thousands of school children across Scotland. Additionally, our national performing companies moved quickly to pivot to their virtual audiences, including the National Theatre of Scotland, to recently launch its digital education platform. That is an online resource bank for secondary school teachers and students, offering free digital access to NTS productions and resources, ensuring that every young person can now experience an NTS production. Supporting the recovery of the cultural sector from the pandemic is not just a job for me nor the Cabinet Secretary, because culture impacts and intersects with every part of Government responsibility. Last month, a Cabinet paper was agreed to, which sets out the next steps on how we plan to drive that recovery. In education, health, economic development and on net zero, culture has a key role to play in our recovery and investing in culture can help in delivering wider wellbeing outcomes as we move towards a wellbeing economy. I look forward to working with ministerial colleagues as we bring those plans forward. Culture, as I mentioned, helped many of us through the pandemic, reading books, listening to music and even watching the television. However, now it is the time to ensure that Government helps culture by delivering a sustainable recovery for all. As Volkan Boskyr, who is the president of the UN General Assembly, has observed, as we look to recover from Covid-19, we must simultaneously draw upon the skills of those in the creative sphere and ensure that no artist or cultural profession is left behind. From our festivals to our libraries, from our theatres to our castles, this Government is absolutely committed to delivering an equitable cultural recovery for the benefit of the people of Scotland. Thank you very much. The minister will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions, after which we will need to move to the next item of business, and it would be helpful, as ever, if members who wish to ask a question could press the request-to-speak buttons now or as soon as possible. I call on Sharon Dowey. I thank the minister for advance sight of her statement. The pandemic has clearly had an impact across our economy, and it is clear that it is a cultural sector that has perhaps faced some of the greatest hardship. Theatre is unable to open, artists and musicians are unable to perform, and in every part of Scotland the curtain has come down on too many local venues. The Scottish Conservatives acknowledge the additional funding for the sector announced today. Frankly, it is a sector that needs all the help that it can get, but it is not just the funding that is needed to support the arts through this phase of the pandemic. It is practical advice and support too. Productions have been forced to change or close at the last minute, and for many smaller companies across the country, that can be a real issue. While new funding is welcome, we know that cultural organisations have reported that it is sometimes takes too long for funding to reach them when it is needed. Having met various groups, the application process for Creative Scotland proves hard to navigate. What can the Scottish Government do to streamline the process and protect those companies who could go to the wall if funding is not delivered quickly enough? I thank Sharon Dowey for that question. She raises a number of important issues, first of all with regard to the economic impact that I touched upon in my opening statement. I think that we need to be cognisant that the economics of where we are as a country have really impacted on the cultural sector in ways that they have not in other parts of our society, which we are able to reopen fully even at the start of this year. If you think back to May of this year, after the election, theatres, for example, were still on a level of lockdown. There were still restrictions around social distancing, for example, which impacted the number of people that theatres, of course, could accommodate. There was a real challenge there in May. I do not think that the same challenge exists now. The challenge is different, but we need to very much be live to the risks that new variants present to the sector. I am very conscious of that in my dealings with them on a regular basis. Sharon Dowey mentioned practical advice and support to organisations. Primarily, funding, as she will know, is administered via Creative Scotland, not directly from Government itself. If there is an issue about funding not getting to those organisations quickly, I would be keen to raise it with them. In fact, I am meeting Creative Scotland tomorrow, so I will raise it with them on Sharon Dowey's behalf. It is hugely important. We have an issue back in May about accessing funding and ensuring that it could be delivered quickly. We managed to resolve that, but I recognise some of the challenges that she speaks to. On engagement more broadly, I spend a lot of my time as minister speaking to the events, industry and advisory group that I mentioned, who are not trying to tell me where the challenges are at this moment in time with regard to our recovery from the pandemic. I suppose that I note a reassurance to Sharon Dowey that that engagement very much continues. As we are facing an increasingly challenging time in terms of the pandemic and the changing nature of the virus, it is vital that that engagement continues. If there are organisations that Sharon Dowey knows about that she would like to make me aware of, or if she feels that they would like direct engagement with Government, I am more than happy to give my time to them, because I recognise the challenge and the need for on-going support. That practical advice that she spoke to in her question. I also thank the minister for advance sight of her statement and agree with the importance of funding to support our cultural sector, our venues and those who work in the sector, but will the minister acknowledge the huge impact on cultural venues and organisations of the requirement to draw down their reserves before they qualified for Scottish Government funding during the pandemic? Those organisations are now under massive pressure. Given the length of time that she has acknowledged, they were not able to operate and the very long financial shadow that Covid has created over their capacity to recover to get back to where they were pre-Covid. So what financial support can she offer them today? Can I also agree that culture is absolutely critical to our collective wellbeing? Will the minister commit to offering the same support and recognition that she has offered to arts, culture and wellbeing Scotland to develop, to the arts and education recovery group to support those who have worked tirelessly throughout Covid-19 to ensure that young people have access to cultural experiences? Finally, will she consider arts prescribing to help people to recover from Covid? We have some great programmes, as she has mentioned, but we don't need everyone to be able to benefit from the arts when they need it mentally, regardless of where they live, to promote our collective health and wellbeing going forward. I thank Sarah Boyack for her question. There are a number of different issues that she touches upon, so I will try to summarise those in detail. The first point that she makes relates to funding in terms of venues drawing down on their own reserves before they access funding. She will recognise some of the challenges that we face as a Government at the initial beginning of the pandemic in terms of the financial situation in which we found ourselves. Nonetheless, I take her point. What I would say is that the Government's support that we have been able to provide, which is over £175 million to the sector, to the cultural heritage and events sector, is far in excess, as I mentioned, of the £97 million of consequentials that we received from the UK Government. There is, I think, an outstanding question mark around those consequentials, which, of course, have been delivered to cultural organisations in England and not to the equivalent here in Scotland, which is deeply concerning. On the point that she raises with regard to additional funding, I have mentioned in my statement today funding commitments that will go to support museum recovery, which will go to support the crannog on the very unique situation that the crannog found itself in earlier this year. On the cultural collective work, which I think is hugely important, a lot of our recovery plans at this moment in time are focused on driving a community recovery with regard to our cultural sector. I think that that is vitally important. It has to be rooted in accessibility. We know that our poorer communities are less likely to have access to culture, so therefore it is important that our recovery plans reflect that and challenge that additionally to make sure that funding gets to those who need it most. Ms Boyack also mentioned arts in education with regard to funding. We will hear, of course, later from the finance secretary in terms of the budget, so I do not want to pre-judge any announcement that she will make. On arts prescribing, I am in general very supportive of that as a method to ensure that cultural recovery. That is what I would talk to as preventative spend and making those interventions hugely important. One of the points that I touched upon in my statement was the cabinet paper, which recently went up to the cabinet a few weeks ago now. The cabinet secretary and I will be meeting with a number of other cabinet secretaries, including the education secretary very soon, to discuss some of the opportunities here. I am very keen, of course, as Ms Boyack will know with my former teacher hat-on, that we further explore the opportunity through arts in education. Arts prescribing more generally is certainly a very valid place that I would like to see us explore more in more detail. As the minister has already updated, Brexit has undoubtedly thrown up barriers, including the ability of artists to tour and perform. Can the minister advise what steps the Scottish Government is taking to support Scotland's artists and musicians to tour and perform in Europe? Brexit has undoubtedly created challenges for touring artists, some of which I mentioned in my opening statement. We are yet to see their full impact given Covid-related travel restrictions, but it has introduced costs and administrative barriers to accessing these sectors' largest overseas markets. As I noted in my statement, we have provided £10,000 to support arts info point, which is a scheme set up to help artists navigate the new administrative challenge that Brexit has created. The Scottish Government will continue to make the case that the UK Government and EU should agree visa-free travel arrangements to allow UK and EU artists to move freely. I last met the UK Government culture minister in June. I am yet to meet the new UK Government culture minister, although I have made a request to do so. It is hugely important for our music sector that we get movement on this issue. There is a pragmatic solution and it is time that we had some movement on it to help protect jobs in our music sector. We have seen many cultural venues across Scotland succumb to damage in the past few months after under-use as a result of a pandemic and batten as a result of recent storms. What is the Scottish Government going to do to protect some of the most vulnerable buildings in communities across Scotland? I thank Jeremy Balfour for his question. He spoke to cultural venues. I suppose that, in terms of the support that has come from the Scottish Government, we have already contributed a significant amount of funding through our cultural organisations and venue recovery fund, which is total £25 million. I gave some examples to Mr Balfour of that impact. In terms of buildings, there is potentially a challenge here that he is likely to say that I am not. However, if there are specific details that he would like to share with me, which potentially relate to the heritage sector, then I would be more than happy to discuss it with him in more detail. I recognise that there are some challenges for the heritage sector at this time, in terms of reopening buildings. There is also, bluntly, the challenge of climate change. I saw that from myself very well illustrated by the Hill House box project that some of you might have seen at the Charles Rennie Macintosh building in Helenshawr, which is a fantastic example of where historic environment Scotland has been able to preserve a hugely significantly important building by encasing it in a metal box, and it is to guard against the impacts of climate change. I am not sure whether that is what Mr Balfour was alluding to in his question, but I am happy to have a further conversation on him and to share any learning that he might have for Government in this space, because I recognise the challenges here. Michelle Thomson, to be followed by Faisal Chowdry. Escalated to me in my capacity as a convener for the cross-party group for music, the Scottish Commercial Music Industry Task Force wrote recently to the UK Government to highlight their concern that only £9 million of £40 million previously committed to in Barnett consequentials for culture had been given to the Scottish Government. She referred to this issue earlier today, but can the minister outline what specific discussions she has had with the UK Government in relation to this very concerning situation? I thank Michelle Thomson for her question. The specific discussions that I have had with the UK Government on this relate to the two meetings that I had with the previous culture minister, which would have been in June and May of this year. We are still seeking clarity from HM Treasury on why the £40 million has not yet been passed on in full to us. We are continuing to press the UK Government to deliver the remaining £31 million of consequentials that relate to the March budget that I inspired the Chancellor earlier this year. On the wider work that we are undertaking in the Scottish Government, I have invited the Scottish Commercial Music Industry Task Force and Music Venue Trust to a round-table discussion on 15 December next week with myself and the Cabinet Secretary to allow us to better understand how the Scottish Government can support the music industry and in its recovery from the pandemic. I am also aware that the Scottish Commercial Music Industry Task Force has written additionally to the UK Government on this matter. I thank the minister for her advance sight of her statement. What will be crucial for a small and community-based organisation now is more access to funding, with countless still struggling to recover from the impact of Covid-19. Many are still facing barriers to unlock their full potential as the small community organisations that are the driving force of our culture sector. The complexities and delays of the application process prevent them from being able to forward plan and be sure of the financial support they desperately need. Events like Edinburgh, Diwali and its celebration, organised by small organisations where hundreds, including the minister herself, have visited, are still struggling as of today. Can I ask how the Government will ensure that small organisations can gain access to crucial funding to recover and won't have to wait until a week before their event starts to learn that funding is secured? I thank Fosil Trouger for his question. I very much enjoyed my experience at Edinburgh, Diwali, where he was present and Ms Boyack as well. It was a fantastic experience and a privilege to be a part of that event a couple of weeks ago. With regard to the specific support that we have been able to provide, we understand in the Scottish Government how deeply impacted the sector has been by the impacts of the pandemic. Fosil Trouger rightly speaks to some of the challenges that smaller organisations have experienced. One of the announcements that I have confirmed today was, of course, the museums and galleries fund, which is £1 million. That will deliver small amounts of funding to smaller organisations, which I think is hugely important. Next year is Scotland's year of stories, and there is a really vital important message and I suppose a story for our museum sector to tell in this regard, because it tells the stories of our local community. If we can get funding to those smaller museums, we can help to share that story in Scotland's community and embed that sense of place additionally. On the specific issue about hold-ups in terms of the complexities and delays in applications, I have not had any correspondence on that matter, but if Mr Trouger wants to write to me directly, I am keen to raise it. It is the second time that I have to say that it has been raised today and I am meeting Creative Scotland as I mentioned tomorrow, so I am more than happy to take that forward. What I do not want to have to see happen is that smaller organisations are in some way prohibited from bidding for this funding, or, as Mr Trouger has alluded to, are more likely to feel the impacts because they are smaller and therefore less robust in dealing with the financial impacts of the pandemic. Let me take that away and, if Mr Trouger wants to write to me on the specifics, I will be more than happy to speak to him directly on the issues that he has raised. Christine Grahame, to be followed by Mark Ruskell. Minister, with reference to the economic impact of investment in culture, with £2.5 million in Scottish Government funding, the great tapestry of Scotland's centre was built in Gallifuils, and that to date, since its opening in late August, 7,000 tickets have been sold despite Covid. Does she therefore agree that the £2.5 million investment was an investment not only in the centre, nor indeed in the regeneration of Gallifuils, but in investment in the wider borders economy? Absolutely. It is fantastic that the new world-class great tapestry of Scotland visitor experience, which has been designed to support regeneration and wellbeing, has opened in Gallifuils and Ms Grahame's constituency. The Scottish Government has been a strong supporter of the great tapestry of Scotland from its inception, and the creation of the new visitor centre is part of a wider economic and social regeneration across the south of Scotland, as Ms Grahame alluded to in her question. Just three miles from Abbotsford, the home of Sir Walter Scott, it is incredibly fitting that this is where Scotland's story will begin for many people visiting the area, and its opening is an inspiring moment as we look forward to the celebration of the year of stories in 2022. I look forward to being able to visit the great tapestry in the new year with Ms Grahame. Mark Ruskell to be followed by Jenny Minto. Thank you. I thank the minister for the statement and, in particular, the increased funding for the culture collective and the Cranog centre. I think that we have all had those incredible experiences. It is an absolute time machine. It would be great to see it recreated. I think that what the statement really underlines is the importance of the creative sector in terms of wellbeing, regeneration, place making, mental health. These are busy creative organisations, but they often spend a lot of time trying to apply for annual funding year after year after year. There is a lot of creative time that is wasted through that funding process. What hope can the minister give us that we will move to a multi-year funding process that can ensure that these organisations have the certainty to really invest in their communities and deliver all the amazing wellbeing benefits that we are used to them delivering? Before calling the minister, I invite those who are moving into the chamber for the next item of business to please respect the colleagues who are engaged in this statement and asking questions. Mark Ruskell, for his question. He rightly talks to the hugely important wellbeing impacts that investing in culture can bring. I think that there are wider cross-governmental priorities that investing in culture will allow us to deliver. I am really keen to meet ministerial colleagues on this in the next few weeks with the cabinet secretary. Specifically on the issue that he raises with regard to funding, this would be a matter for creative Scotland. However, as I have alluded to in two answers now, I am meeting them tomorrow, so I am more than happy to take that up. I think that the issue around financial certainty is one that is well made. I again, though, would relay the uncertainty that not receiving the full amount of the cultural consequentials that were due to the cultural sector in Scotland has created in the sectors is not welcome at this time. Certainly, if we could get some clarity from the UK Government on this in the immediate future, it would be absolutely welcome. However, I am happy in the interim to raise this matter with creative Scotland. I would like to thank the minister for her statement, but I would like to ask the minister how the Scottish Government will ensure that the history and culture of rural and island areas, especially in Gaelic, will be reflected in its policies. There are a range of Gaelic initiatives in place in areas of low population, such as MG Albus or Lann. If I do not pronounce this correctly, please correct me. If I am more, as you keep forbes sitting beside me, and to say all us, those bodies create employment for young Gaelic speakers and opportunities to use and learn the language. However, there is also a network of Gaelic development officers operating throughout island and rural areas to support the Gaelic language. I recall in my time in Education Scotland sitting across from some of those development officers at the time. In addition, the Scottish Government is working closely and positively with the local authorities in those areas in early years in education and in arts to support Gaelic, and I would be happy to provide any further information to the member on that. In addition, we also have a number of manifesto commitments to support Gaelic and Scots, and naturally, as those develop, we will ensure that rural and island communities are reflected in those plans. To ask the minister what discussions the Scottish Government has had around working together with the cultural sector to ensure that, as many people as possible, are using lateral flow tests before attending those venues, which is not mandated by Government. The primary way in which we engage with the sector on this matter has been through the events industry and advisory group, which meets on every three weeks. I meet with the events industry and advisory group and this issue is regularly raised with us. It is hugely important. At the last meeting that we had two weeks ago, the issue was raised about our communications package, which we are now working on the events industry about. I think that it is hugely important that we keep continuing, particularly with the new emergence of new variants, to relay that messaging to people as they go and experience events. We all want to support our cultural recovery, but it is important that the population do that safely. The main way in which they can do that is to take a lateral flow test before they attend an event. That communication with the events industry and advisory group continues, and the communication package that I spoke to, we are working on with officials and the events industry group to make sure that messaging is getting to those who need to hear it and that people are testing before they go to experience live concerts and events, particularly important in the run-up to Christmas. Finally, Emma Harper. The minister mentioned Scots. The Scots language is a huge part of Scotland's culture and promotion of Scots. It has also been affected by the pandemic. Can the minister comment on what work the Scottish Government is undertaking to further promote the use of Scots language across Scotland as we emerge through and out of the pandemic? Would the minister agree to come along to the re-established Scots language cross-party group to attend a future meeting to provide an update on the work in relation to Scots, which I am tilt, is including Doric as well? Emma Harper for her question. I recognise very much her interest and commitment to the Scots language. The Scottish Government has made it clear that our support for Indigenous languages include Scots, of course, and it is really essential that those who wish to use the Scots language are given every opportunity to use the language of their choice. For many Scots, it is the language of home and community and its use in other areas of Scottish life should really be encouraged. Emma Harper has extended an invitation to me to attend her cross-party group and I would be more than happy to take up that invitation. Minister, that concludes the item of business. There will be a brief pause before we move to the next item of business.


I remember when Instagram started is like 2012. Kevin Systrom sold in the largest transaction. I remember even thinking, this Zuckerberg guy is crazy. He's dropping a bill for an app. It was one billion cash in hindsight. It's the greatest business move of modern history. I think Facebook's market cap's been hovering half a trill. I would say 60 percent of Facebook's value is in Instagram. So for a bill, he probably made 250 bill. That's a good return.  Or do you think he has a big team?


I think we're here at Intel Forecast 2012 with a conversation with Kurt Obli-VP and CTO of NextGen Cyber and Technology with Lockheed Martin. Thanks for sitting down with us and you got your posse here for, and although they're not mic'd up, they have some, maybe you can chime in some answers and talk real loud, pick up the microphone. So welcome to SiliconANGLE's conversations. Appreciate it. Well, thank you for the invitation. So you're up there giving a presentation on cloud security. Lockheed Martin is well known in the defense circles around tech, government defense and or just in technology in general, pretty innovative. Cloud has been around, it's been hyped up, it's been cloud washed, people talking cloud, this, that, all these benefits. And as we're reporting on SiliconANGLE, we're just not seeing a disruption in mainstream businesses, mainly around just the existing infrastructures just so solid in the data center that the adoption of cloud from an application standpoint, there's been some inhibitors, one of them's been security. So we've seen private cloud, which is an extension of data centers have emerged under controlled environments, but still not the massive jump to cloud per se. The public cloud. To public cloud and even use some hybrid cloud, non-mission critical apps, crack applications some say or other things, but it's evolving. So what, so I'll get your take on one, that state of that conversation. How far are we off from being fully adopted with cloud? Obviously there's some disruption benefits there. And where are we today in the cloud market? So from a big picture perspective, I think three years ago, cloud was the officially most overhyped word we had, right? More approach. Now, this year I think it's being replaced with big data, maybe mobility's out, as it's starting to nudge cloud out because people are starting to use cloud and it's starting to roll out more in mainstream. But with any new technology, who are the first adopters in that? If you were in new company and I'll use Netflix or Netflix as an example, and you write your application to leverage cloud infrastructure and cloud applications, then the ability for you to execute without having those legacy baggage is a lot easier than if you are a traditional company with a traditional set of responsibilities, policies, securities, et cetera, legacy applications to make a wholesale migration. I've yet to see at every big inflection point in technology, everybody says the mainframe's dead, but I think IBM still makes a whole lot of money running those mainframes. Yeah, well, you brought up the good point. I mean, it's just marketed, how markets are built, right? Markets are built around disruption and benefits, economics and value benefits. And so I agree, I think we're seeing, and I'm not dissing cloud per se, I'm a pro-cloud, but the inhibitors are that real economic advantage for a legacy person, thousands of servers they've been doing for the past 10 years, server consolidation, virtualization, service standardization, all that stuff, the checklist, now network virtualization, and they go, okay, and what's the benefit does Amazon, these guys offer me? I have an existing set of applications, they're just not there yet, that's where we're reporting. However, there are cases where there's compute and infrastructure, whether you're running Black Shoals or something out there, but from a pure adoption standpoint, one of the things is security. Around multi-tenancy and things of that nature. So what is the state of security around, and some people are seeing online providers have more security than an enterprise trying to do it. Yeah, so what's the take on that? So if you look at security as an inhibitor, and sometimes a crutch used by people to say, well gee, I can't go use a public or a private cloud because of that security thing, but sometimes that's valid, and sometimes that's because they're using that as a crutch because they don't want to automate it because there's a cultural challenge, there's a certain fear there. So everybody has different security goals, right? And they have different security threats they might be managing. So when we look at the security landscape, we typically see compliance, which doesn't really provide security, but it makes sure that you do all the things that governments ask you to do. There's the 80% threat that allows you to manage and defend against the known threats that are out there, and then there's what we refer to as the 20% advanced threat. That's groups that are very well funded, they're creating new pieces of malware every day. That is something you can't just buy out of the box. It's much trickier to look at. So if you look at what your goals are and what your risk level is, and you have some assets, applications data, and you can work with a cloud provider that gives you transparency into all their operations, their security so that you have built a trust level that you can put your applications and data in that environment, you're going to leverage it. That's the key thing is that trust level. So for the folks out there, the buyers who want to look at the cloud, how should they architect their cloud for security? If they have the green field opportunity and or I want to move into a provider, so there's the trust question on this. So Lockheed Martin is a consumer and provider of cloud services, so of course you can just call us, we'll help you out. The reality is that's one of the things that we created the Open Data Center Alliance for. We see these different challenges and when a vendor works with, Lockheed Martin's a pretty good sized company, greater than 100,000 team members, greater than $40 billion in revenue, but relative to the whole world, we're just one company. So with Open Data Center Alliance, we've gotten over 300 companies together that said, what's the common use cases or usage models that we would start with so we can enable and help us get to cloud computing? So that's a question I've gotten from several customers and friends and colleagues. So I send them over to the ODCA website and say, check out some of these use cases and these usage models, it'll give you a jump start from what you should be asking for in whatever cloud solution you have. What use cases that you've seen is the most compelling for the cloud movement right now to port over because it's still some fuzziness around where that first stepping stone is for someone. So it's really all about the application. So first you have to think about where you want your application to run from. We're right now from the ODCA perspective that I popped up in my notes here. We have 14 usage models published so far. The bulk of them are around security because that is a concern. If you're responsible for delivering an application, ensuring it's confidential, the integrity of it, the availability of it, privacy of it, you're probably going to have these concerns. So the first set of usage models are all about provider assurance, security monitoring, identity management, cloud-based identity, governance and audit, privilege user access for infrastructure service, cloud-based identity provisioning and single sign-on. So that seems to be the most compelling area to spend time on, which is why we did. Then we start looking at things like automation. And the automation is one of the key things that tries to lower your costs. If you can't automate, the chances of you lowering your costs is a lot harder. Common management policy, obviously, regulations around the world are changing faster than cloud can. At first it was this giant cloud that was around the world and then different governments started saying, you can use a cloud as long as the data is in our country. That limits some of the cloud opportunities that you might have, but that's the regulations, that's what you have to work with. And I think the last piece here is transparency. If you didn't understand where your clouds are and where your assets are, the chances of you trusting that provider, dramatically you down. Let's talk about the provider market. I actually had a chance to interview Marvin before he sold this company to Verizon at VMworld 2010. And at that time, the big conversation was online service providers in this area. And there was obviously not a lot of work being done on the on-premise side. Actually, all the action was being done at the server provider. So we put out the thesis that there was more security at the provider level than the actual customers themselves could do. Where are we today? Because that seems to be the same message we're hearing from customers that there is actually comfort in the provider. The question is the business practices. So it's not a tech issue. It's a business model issue. Could you comment on that? Because it's kind of confusing because it's certainly a great OPEX opportunity. But is it a tech issue or is it more of a business model? I don't see it as a technology issue. I do see it as a business model and investment model.  And not every company has that level of investment. So if you're a smaller company and I can go to a service provider who's making that investment and they share that investment with me to provide increased level of security, that's awesome. But if you go to one of a large company, a Cisco, a Lockheed Martin, a Bank of America, these are companies where trust is everything. So they're making those bigger investments to have that same level or in sometimes even a higher level of security than a provider because providers don't have that domain knowledge that each of those industries I mentioned has. In the case of Lockheed Martin, we do a lot of work with governments around the world. There's a certain level of security needed that's heightened because of the work that we do. It attracts a certain kind of adversary that the average provider may not have the opportunity. So let's talk about disruption to the data center because this is about the data center conversation about the deliance here. So I'm a data center guy. I got zillions of servers. I've done all the server consolidation, standardized my servers, done all this stuff and I'm ready for cloud. I got all this infrastructure. I got 5,000 apps I'm running. You guys start a cloud from scratch, build all standardization, take advantage of the clean sheet of paper and build a killer innovative product, low cost, all that leverage. Sure. What's the benefit to me now as a buyer? What do I need to look for? Because ultimately you're going to bring benefits to me from an economic standpoint and also from a product standpoint. So everybody, mileage will vary. So if you have a, if you remember Gartner has, there are different maturity levels for IO. If you have an extremely optimized environment, you have great ITIL processes, you have optimal organization and you've gone through all those steps. The value you would have to go to the cloud is going to be less than if you are, say a little more unorganized, maybe a level one or level two organization. So depending on what you're trying to accomplish will dramatically change the value you're in there. In that case I got all these servers. How would you approach me, engage with me? What benefits would you offer me? Because actually there's some things I can put out in the cloud that are, that's great for lower cost in terms of economic value, applications, well maybe mobility. Where does that, that buyer, I'm city bank, I'm like a big company like that or I got all these servers. How do you get them to the cloud with your service? I, when I look at something like a very large company, you mentioned several, it's going to be a portfolio of capabilities. So when you look at what you're trying to accomplish, if you're going to make a large CapEx investment and I can do the same thing with an OpEx investment, I only need six months of it, that's where you leveraging public cloud infrastructure probably has great benefit for you. If you are a very large group, you probably have enough economic scale where your general compute needs and if you've optimized them, you've brought some of the cloud automation self-service in there, you're probably that private cloud is probably going to be dominant. So personally where I see the market going is a unified cloud world where depending on your company, you're going to have a large private cloud footprint that's very well optimized and then you're going to have hybrid cloud across multiple providers that provide you something unique. I'll give you a quick example. First, for retail maybe. Maybe for retail, the holiday season is the easy use case but maybe you have some groups out in Asia. The distance from Asia to a US data center, latency is a killer. Maybe I move some capabilities over to a capability in that area of the world so I have great customer experience for my customers and my end users there but my core data always resides back in your home country where that home country is. Yeah, I think that absolutely correct on that I completely agree with that vision. I think the diversity of this operating system model of holistic data centers is really where it's at. Totally agree, I love that and I think that's a reality that will be for everyone. Question, just to engage a little bit. You guys built all your stuff from scratch and they got a great infrastructure. What's your take about Flash? Flash is being very disruptive from a product standpoint in the data center. It's changing storage architectures. Big data is a big part of that. Data is part of compliance. You're going to deal with all this stuff with cloud. Have you seen the Flash change some of the server configurations? Oh, absolutely. When we look at, well first, we don't build everything from scratch. We're very much partnered and able to make a whole ecosystem. We actually have a cyber line. Well, you can assemble from scratch maybe. Maybe that's a better word. Well, we felt me wrong when there's not something on the market. We will invent it and create something unique but the reality is like for Flash, that's been a quiet storm coming. Why? Number one, sustainability in your green ecosystem is number two. The power management of having a green data center using Flash versus spending disk with power supplies. Huge value proposition there. When you look at the new applications coming out, big data applications, virtual desktops, those are high IO rate applications. When you start using Flash, your ability to scale dramatically improves. Now you're moving the bottleneck away from storage. And you're in your physical data center back into the compute world and the networking world. So there's always a bottleneck somewhere. It's just to decide. Yeah, now it's the network because storage has been solved with Flash or it's on a good path. And network virtualization is the hottest. I mean, I think Flash is changing the architectures. And so with that, what do you think about network virtualization going on right now? So it's a hot area. Network seems to be the bottleneck you talk about age and latency. Network latency now becomes a problem because you've got cores and IO with Flash. You can have caching layers. You can sit with the server. You can put it anywhere with Flash. So now the problem goes to the network. Without a doubt. I remember a few years ago they said, oh, network bandwidth is free. No one's ever seen my Verizon bill or AT&T bill. When I give wireless card to my kids one Friday night in Netflix, they've crushed the whole month, right? So. I mean, I was talking to a guy who's in Atlanta and completely over capacity. You can't get. I mean, it's a huge bandwidth problems. And that's actually based on behavior, right? 10 years ago we were more consumers on the internet. Now, with everyone walking around with 100 mega pixel cameras and everything like that, we are creating content. Video, pictures, voice at such an amazing rate that we're gonna have to look at a lot new architectures because the bandwidth doesn't seem to be growing fast enough. We had Pauline Nis from Intel. She's one of the top brains at Intel. She said in the Q-Class we had HP discover that the network, she's really worried about the network. That's the key bottleneck right now. So, you know, because all the advances on compute and apps are growing so fast, it's just now the network's a problem.  Well, even the concept of having a centralized cloud is a reality, right? Because if you have network bottlenecks and they get worse, what's going to happen? The same thing we did with mainframes and distributed computing. We're gonna mute that compute to whatever that edge is, avoid that network bottleneck so you have a great experience and then somehow try to optimize that network on the backside. Her final question before we break here. Very next guest. For the folks out there, CIO or practitioners in IT and who are looking at expanding out their footprint on the data center side and going private, public and hybrid, what would you tell them? What advice would you give them about the horizon in front of them, the landscape, the next five years? Value of opportunity, massive change. What would you, what's kind of forecast would you give them? My forecast is this is a great leadership inflection point to take advantage of. We are gonna see massive change and it's kind of like going surfing. You can fight the waves, don't try it. Start understanding what your business objectives are and pick the waves that you can embrace and bring those technologies as fast as you can to your early adopters because if you're not doing it, someone else is going to do it for you. Ride the wave or become driftwood as Pat Gelsinger would say in theCUBE. So that's a great advice. So big data is one of the big areas. What are the areas you say that will to ride and what kind of waves to ride right now? So from a big picture perspective, it starts at the end using the consumers. We're generating all kinds of great stuff with mobility. That's putting pressure on the networks. We need cloud computing to automate it, generating big data like you've never seen before. Can we add some real value out of it? Harness the data. Harness that data and make everything contextually relevant to whatever your goal is. Kurt, thanks so much for coming on to Canyon Conversation with SiliconANGLE. theCUBE, appreciate it. We'll be right back with our next guest.