Good afternoon. Let's start with a call to order for the October 4th Regular meeting of the City of Santa Rosa Design Review Board and we'll get a roll call Okay, let the record reflect that all that board members are present except for board members Kincaid and Rear who will be absent and board members Zuko will abstain from items 6.1 and 6.4 Due to professional relationships with the applicant teams Great moving to item 2 Minutes two sets of minutes July 19th. This one's hanging on because of lack of quorums and Groups that were individuals that were there is that right? Okay, we got through that one Okay, any comments on July 19th before they are entered into the record, okay Comments on August 2nd Chair Birch I have a comment on March 2nd or sorry August 2nd for item 6.2 532 Aston Way file number dr. 17 zero two to two I would have if I would have abstained from that project as it's a professional relationship for me And that was not noted in the minutes. That's not noted in the minutes correct, but you didn't intense, but I didn't attend I just wanted Okay in the event we see it again Just wanted it to be If there's a reason that needs to be noted patty according to what you would know. Let's we'll get it in there To restrict it either way So that stands as a note But I just haven't seen that before so it was clever On which item it was six point six point two The Aston Way project that drew a comment and on right in the middle of it said One building would measure two to three stories in height Which is a little vague, but it's the comments in general Manifest that there were there were no comments about building counter-density and the project complies with building height per zone So I think it just can just be ignored If someone wants to have options of how many stories your buildings are it's just noted there, but okay So no change though. No no change. Okay moving on to item three Board business this is where we Give a recitation of the Design review boards authority the review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed Project upon surrounding properties in the city in general review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan Any applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements Consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements such as city policy statements or development plans So that is the purview of this board and Get back to item four public comment public comment on items that are not on today's agenda anyone here With an item not on today's agenda seen none. We will move on to Item five statements of abstention. I think we covered those in the role Zuko from six point one and six point four And we move to our scheduled items Item six point one amendment to final design review for Coddingtown renovation of a major design review 733 Coddingtown Center file number dr. 1 6 dash 0 6 5 and Amy will give us a staff report Thank You chair birch and members of the board as was mentioned the item before you is an amendment to final design review for the Coddingtown Mall renovation The project site is located at 733 Coddingtown Center, which is the Coddingtown Mall And the area of work is just a section along the northern facade located Or highlighted here in yellow final design review was granted for this project in April of 2017 and it consisted of the replacement of about 2,300 square feet of storefront with four distinct tenant spaces The proposal before you this evening Includes the replacement of three of those four tenant spaces with one building instead and so a Singular 28-foot building would extend from the existing Starbucks cafe to the recently approved Ulta beauty building Which is currently under construction And so these two graphics here show what was previously approved on the top You can see the three tenant spaces between Starbucks and the white Ulta building and the proposal now is for One old Navy building to go in that same location The project site is designated for retail and business services under the general plan and has a zoning district of general commercial with a station area overlay Staff has found that the revised proposal is consistent with the development standards listed in both general commercial and station area Tables which include That 80% of the storefront be be a glazing and as you can see from this graphic the entire First floor essentially of that old Navy building is of windows Staff has found that the project meets a number of the city's design guidelines In that the proposed building utilizes different materials and colors to provide visual interest And the building includes rectangular architectural forms which complement the existing buildings Located on the northern facade of the mall In addition the proposed tenant space provides a distinct sense of entry The proposal has been Reviewed in concert with the California Environmental Quality Act and qualifies for a class 2 exemption and that it consists of the reconstruction of an existing structure with one of Substantially the same purpose and size No new public comments have been received since the close of the design review board meeting where final design review was granted and the only new conditions of approval have been Three standard conditions from our fire department So with that the planning and economic development department recommends that the design review board approve an amendment to final design review For the Cunningtown Mall renovation project Thank You Amy any questions for staff before we move to an applicant presentation Okay, we'll ask the applicant to come to the table This is going to be a little bit of a new setup for us. We're trying to you guys are the guinea pigs, so We're trying to bring the We're in the larger room for every meeting now And we're trying to bring the applicants a little bit closer to have a little bit better dialogue in a design Conversation rather than having them work from up at the podiums at the top where we can't can't actually see them so if you'd give your name and your relationship to the project and knock our socks off noted that We had three vacant spaces that have now become one space under the old Navy design Which will be adjacent to the current Altaspace which is just about completed that you'll see there if you go by the spot site right now We we all love the the original design unfortunately. We were unable to find any Tennis that thought thought the same way until we found old Navy and they wanted the whole space so We've been working with old Navy for the past six months to come up with a an integral design that worked well for Codding Town and As well as for the tenants use I think the staff did a good job of pointing out the fact that the use of of the Storefront along the facade It's almost completely storefront as well as the the articulation of the aluminum fins design on the on the north and on East facade So with that, I think it's fairly straightforward. It's it's fairly simple design 28 height feet high and EIFS finish Really straightforward if you have any questions, you're glad to answer them great questions for for the applicant Start with you drew Questions for the applicant are we we're in a concept? Yeah, no one yeah Yeah, let's let's let's ask the applicant the questions. We want answered. We'll come back to comments. Okay. I guess I have a question Structurally that will key off. I think my comment So if you look actually at the sheet that you have now and probably the floor plan on a six So the gray area there. That's the entry into the Like the back of house hallway, right? Correct. Okay, so Is there something structurally that is prohibiting? that gray volume from Shifting in any way shape or form Yes It's constructed That it's done. Yeah, but there's nothing. I mean Asking is I'm assuming that this is probably bar joist with You know low-bearing walls or something like that and it's just the fire hallway there for yes. Yes Okay, that's my question Warren questions for the applicant. No same question. No, no question same question here same same answer same answer Firehose or firehose? Okay Any any comments from the public on this project? We've got through that so quickly. I had to catch back up any comments specifically on this project You can you can make a comment up at the podium at the top there Anyone see no one will close it up and bring it back to the board and bring it back to our discussion We we like to start our discussions with a motion and then we discuss the motion We do things by Rosenberg's rules here a little bit different for a big crowd So if I've got a board member who's willing to make a motion and we can move to comments on that motion I move to approve the amendment to final design review a Coddingtown renovation design review major 733 Coddingtown Center file number dr16-067 wave reading of the text and Bring it back to discussion and we'll start with you drew okay. Let me get the right thing open here So first of all Bob thanks for putting together a nice package. I always like to tell applicants when they put together a good package So thank you for putting together a good package makes it really easy to review what you want to do and give you some feedback I only really have one kind of issue I guess with this project and it And it's under a design review. It's under a design guideline. It has to do with massing Breaking up the massing and so that's why I brought up that fire hallway So I guess if you could go to page a 11 Amy there Okay, so if you look at the corner of the facade there of the old Navy In terms of Foresighted architecture and also kind of breaking up the massing. I really feel like that old Navy parapet Kind of vignette needs to turn the corner there Make a turn and then push the little hallway back, you know five ten feet that way You're breaking the massing of the old Navy building from the altar building and you're creating that kind of third side of the four sides, I guess of the old Navy facade and continue the The thin design as you have on the side adjacent to Starbucks. So that's my comment and How to solve it Warren? Well, I I'm in agreement on the return of the parapet above I know that as far as structural lateral and that the mass of the building the It's always a little disturbing to have the exact same plane of a wall for the next wall I'm not so sure five feet a little aggressive that I would be happy with the return of the parapet I think there's trying to be a stucco texture change reveals It's it's not like a paintbrush is moving from white to gray there There's there's got to be a Sneeze of an inch and a half or three inches or something in between those two planes because when you're redoing old Navy That whole facade that's that's a whole scaffolded world where you can the labor cost of working Can't really be marginal That you might my comments are I agree with drew on the return, you know a good five feet a return on the parapet As far as the the fire corridor mass I'm I'm open to seeing it have some shift Somehow I think that with the right reveals At least a couple inches difference would be important I'll leave it on the table about more looks good to me. No comments nothing additional I'm in the same camp as both Drew and Warren we've we I think mid-block where we got with Ulta with the fattened Sort of sort of you know pop-up that we had I think that felt okay. This is such a distinct mass on the corner I feel like it really You have you have a great view if you swap back a slide You have you have a great view here. That's just to me is very typical of this You know exterior entrance retail and and this facade is pretty much all done now It's it's it's really all done well with the exception of our Nordstroms racks slip up Which we still you know think about but Ulta you can see even in this shot with its thickened parapet It looks good as an inline tenet there but flipping back now one more time to this slide I Just I follow I feel a hundred percent same as as as Drew and Warren that that parapet Needs to return and whatever we could do to make some gesture toward that neutral column It's almost an exterior neutral column just setting back a bit somewhere between two inches and five feet Would be really important to having this Really work, so it's really my only comment. I like everything else about it I think relative to how this Northern facade of the of them all has turned out and all the pieces that have fallen together having old Navy back and having their brand big and bold so that we know this is retail center and sort of not hidden in some Wonky architecture with signs on the front. I think it's wonderful, but we do need to make this one correction, so Not sure we'll come back You know we can it's a single gonna be the single condition or two conditions to return the Parapet wall and bring that space between back I don't know if you have a comment before we move to entering this into the record Yeah, you know I mean just a little background We've been trying we had old Navy at the mall before and we've been trying to get them back for a long time now We've got the opportunity this year once Codding Was in full possession of the mall again, so you know, this is something that we've worked really hard on We as you'll know are really concerned about the architecture and we feel that the north side architecture is really starting to take shape Old Navy and Ulta both have their very defined brands as we've talked about here before and The two stores next to each other were a bit of a challenge for us architecturally However, we feel that with the aluminium fins that we've you know that we've really kind of bought it out a little bit and that we're We're trying to give that definition We can certainly look at bringing the parapet back slightly and with we look at that corridor as well We did try a few different designs with that corridor and We felt that this was the most appropriate one The others really made it look like we were trying too hard to to make that break So if it would be pleasing to the board we could certainly work within those parameters and maybe bring something back to staff If it'd be possible to defer it to staff We are we're working with old Navy on a pretty tight schedule and they are hoping to open They have certain openings throughout the year They're hoping to open by October of next year or earlier if possible, so we really would like to keep this moving along Yeah, I think that if if we can come up with a couple of conditions a condition for each the parapet and and the fire hall to Give staff some direction. It feels like something that can be it feels like something that can be deferred to staff for sure So Yeah, we cannot change the location of the corridor is there that is fixed is existing and it's used for aggressive for other Tenants inside them all as well. It's the one that the intent to change the location It's just if you look at the popping out old Navy a little bit Yeah, if you look at fire with a fire code as far as egress and ingress the height of that Corridor isn't so much a code issue You can you could actually take the the lid your your canopy lid just above the canopy lid That potentially could be shoved back or And that way your quarters intact the fire marshals fine because you know Bob you've if you have a 10 foot high Corridor 12 you don't have to have a 40 foot high corridor No, are you talking about reducing the height of the of the parapet above the corridor? No No, the the parapet height stays the color stays. It was just the idea that The corridor proper is intact where it is the if you I think the height I would imagine the height of your canopy is like 11 feet. I'm small and is that what what's that? The the height of the awning over the doors. Yeah, yeah, that's probably only seven feet Because the doors are sevens Okay Well, the whole question is if the if everyone's fine with the door being where it is the awnings fine where it is the The area vertically above the canopy if you could make an adjustment there and and shove that back Yeah, I don't see that happening That's a structural that's all all that structure across there. This whole building works as one structure So you're not you're not gonna offset that facade. Okay, it's not in the cards. Well, and it's there Yeah, it's built. So I mean you could tear it down I suppose if you had all the money in the world, but you I mean that's not it's really not feasible But okay, I hear what you're saying as far as the offset between the two facades that makes some sense to me and I think that you could probably easily do that with either framing a combination of framing and Exterior insulation. Well, that's that's why I brought up. I was a two so a couple inches That's doable. And so and then also creating a Regulate neutral pier between the two that also makes sense to me, but changing the structure of the That's no there. No blowtorches. No hacksaws. Just stuck on pain I'm just working on two conditions here first condition shut and You guys weigh in here shall add return to Western parapet edge of at least five feet return to match To match East elevation That's like that one teeth feet. Yeah, so you might not want to save that no I'm thinking materials wise. I'm thinking color score lines And I don't know that you're gonna end up with any with any fin it's sort of a To me to me drew it. I don't know that it needs to pick up any of the fins or the blue I don't know that it's gonna go far enough about it. I just think we need to let the app can be flexible How they design that okay eight feet. Yeah Minic reflect, you know That's good with the existing design perfect Is the light going in sequence kind of like a dusk who dance or is it all static? I Hope so But I'm a sign guy so So item number one shall add return to Western parapet edge of at least five to eight feet in keeping with the existing design and item two Or condition two is going to be Shall create Dimensional how about modest dimensional? What if we just a plane shift? Yeah, what if we give you a minimum dimension plane shift and say Minimum plane shift between old Navy facade fire hallway facade and ultra facade of two inches Reasonable yeah, absolutely. It's a beautiful bright white color that every 16 months. We'll probably need repainting Says it says distant gray, but it's Shall create minimum dimensional plane shift of two inches between project facade and adjacent facades Any questions or anything additional on those For the applicant No, I think we've got it. Okay, and we appreciate the comments as well. We think it went out to it Item three would be where is it the motion makers? Do they deferring final to staff? We make that a condition Well, this is final design review. So well, this is right. We're sorry You're just those conditions will be implemented in by staff great any further discussion Patty can we get a roll call? Make a motion on emotion Right We haven't been here in two months. I might know I like to make a motion amending your emotion with the Conditions of our conditions. Yeah So it's a friendly amendment Okay, and then the second Accepted okay, and if I could just remind the board members to make sure the mics are on you speak into them great So we'll get a roll call Patty Okay, board members weigel aye Goldschlag aye Hedge path aye and birch aye Great, so have we let do we know if Zuko is In the building Okay, so we'll take a quick recess. We wait for board members Zuko to arrive Okay Okay, it looks like we're Back in order and ready to call the meeting back to session item 6.2 concept design review for 420 Mendocino Avenue file number dr. 1 8 dash 0 3 8 and we'll get a staff report from Amy Thank you chair birch members of the board The item before you is concept design review for 420 Mendocino The proposal before you is an 85 foot tall building. Well, that's kind of its highest point It consists of 104 studio one and two bedroom units Five of which are proposed as flex space units So those can either be residential or commercial spaces in addition to a ground floor commercial space and an amenity area And there's also a 72 vehicle mechanical parking garage This project was reviewed at the July 5th design review board meeting. So this is a second concept design review at the time the board Gave a lot of positive feedback regarding the materials and architecture proposed and discussed The potential to perhaps widen the sidewalks along Riley Street and discuss the internal pathways now as Ace return to the design review board for this concept is not required Staff's really excited about this downtown housing project and we appreciate the applicant's willingness to return Based on a change to their project and that'll keep this process both successful and transparent So the project site is located at 420 Mendocino Avenue and 433 Riley Street in the downtown area This is a photograph or an aerial photograph of the site bounded by red And so the the big change from the previous review is that the property on the corner of 5th and Riley Street is no Longer included in the proposal So the site is currently developed with one Building which is 420 Mendocino and as you can see the rest is a surface parking lot The project site is designated for retail and business services and is zoned downtown commercial Within the station area. I just have two renderings here this one which shows the overall massing as viewed from above and this is the Elevation along Mendocino Avenue with the existing buildings on either side shown as well And so that concludes my brief presentation. I can answer any questions and then the applicant is here as well to make a presentation Great so just to clarify and there may be other questions from the board, but this is a concept review That goes straight to the zoning administrator for the public action. We've seen the project once there was a modest change Applicant has been willing to bring it back to make sure that we keep a good Keep keep a good flow of information with the design review board and you guys are on to the zoning administrator next week I believe correct great Any other questions or any questions from the board for staff before we move on to the applicant presentation? All right seeing none give us Give us your best shot here. Hi. I'm David Baker the architect I'll go through both quickly. We're architects in San Francisco We do architecture. We do housing you do hospitality We do some interiors we build furniture and we do some temporary kind of phase zero stuff So This is a site Smaller and This is a building in question, which would be removed in the very nice building which will stay on this is the view on Raleigh Street and We are no longer this is fifth which we do not go to it's a great site Except the transit not so good though, right, but it's good for walking Is we are we are proposing a point seven parking ratio and one to one Plus will bite gold go over it a little bit bike parking ratio it's seven stories 85 foot and We comes out at 217 dwelling units per acre So in 104 units total including the five flux units We have a mix of different sizes going from studios to two bedrooms to the flex units are They're to two level units. They're really almost a townhouse with a nice Lower level that could be used for commercial So these are all the strategies together. We're it's designed to be built factory built with modules modules Being a trucked in and placed I don't we divided into multiple buildings because it's a you know to fit better with the grain of of the neighborhood and Then we did a little bit of carving To make light and air and some variety and then we have some articulation responding to the orientation of different elevations of sunshades I Have they have quite a bit of 12 kilowatt potential for a 12 kilowatt solar system and then There there's a connecting muses is Staying it's actually got a lot wider. We got to 17 foot plus wide and that goes through still so I think that'll be really nice and then It's you know, it'll fit in with the existing public realm on the Mendocino Street in Riley Ministry of Cina Street being quite a nice street So this this is the the site plan on the ground level there's the the wider muse and then with a flex units off it and Also, it continues to have the ground level is type one And it's high enough to accept a triple stacker tandem parking garage I just parked in one actually because I'm visiting Harmon house, which we It's almost finished, but being used We're gonna get the front door on any Dana and Healdsburg, so this shows the the layout of the units. It's Designed to you know, this is basically all Factory built on these levels. It's wood frame type three and then there's a roof terrace on the top At which it'll be really nice. We'll have a outdoor kitchen this shows that rendering you saw before and This is the view you from Mendocino This shows what that would look like So if you were driving or riding your bicycle by It's that's looking down the that passageway, which will allow you to go all the way through and You know allows us to set back from that really nice to start building Which is I think good architecturally and also is Good in terms of construct ability Also makes a really nice intimate space This is the Riley Street side. You see the flex units and Closer and in the garage does come to the surface with some space for Rainwater Filtration, but we also set this level back a little bit I think about three foot more than it was before because Riley is quite challenged in terms of its pedestrian realm or I Would say the sidewalks are really narrow It's that will help I think and that shows somebody going in and out of this garage and With that that setback These are some Unit plans that we're proposing The modular it's actually quite nice to work with So these are the the one the two and the yes studio I think the studio is going to get changed a little bit and then this shows the materials we're posing with the Mendocino facade We're proposing in probably a Resting steel and I galvanized steel the two the two components and then the base We really like to do a textured and kind of randomly textured concrete and then How we typically plant a creeping fig on that so that a few years you can't see it So that's that's our presentation. Thank you great any Thing to add just in terms of the changes I think we understand pretty clearly you lost a building so you lost a little bit of the project but Yeah, it's like sort of one-sided now instead of two-sided and You know, I think we actually this was the original building and then that lot got added and so, you know, it's kind of Take it the way give it than take it the way sort of situation Great. Thank you any comment from the public as I've been doing even this is a this is a Preliminary or a concept design review under the new RC But I'm wanting to make sure that we have an opportunity for the public to speak if there's any comment on this item Seeing none will come back to the board and we will take give questions for the applicant drew. We'll start with you I Get the lawyerly questions real questions. No, they're real questions. I get the hot seat man Again Again, thank you for bringing a great package. I was here the last time you guys presented Just great rendering this great floor plans just great everything. So thank you very very much. I appreciate it I just had a It's I guess it's a question on the unit plan kind of it's and it's more architectural And it's probably not DRB related, but it was more kind of curiosity. Yeah So is the idea that Like the two-bedroom corning unit for instance, is that fully accessible? Is that kind of they're all they're supposed to be fully accessible Okay, yeah, just to get get flexibility for whatever tenant might be in there kind of sort of Well, I think we're actually you know required once we have the elevator to make them all accessible So we just we just do okay. Yeah, because I was I was as I was looking at it I was like wait that door would work better here, but wait if it's accessible No, it's in the right spot that guy's kind of wondering. Yeah, it's it's it's you know, we have to Make it probably not as nice, but it's accessible. That's the modern world Okay, and then I guess my other my last question Would be and I think I know the answer, but I just rather I guess hear it from you guys. So The south facade that faces Fifth Street It's quite blank But I imagine the case for that is because it has to be a firewall because of adjacency to the adjacent building and correct It does have the corridor Daylighting on it. So it's broken up into two You know, yeah, yeah, but they're not windows because it's a property line So the whole the whole point of that is because it's got to be a firewall to the adjacent property and all that stuff Right, right, and I don't think the opportunity for fenestration essentially you guys don't allow it some yeah That's what San Francisco does with lots of sprinkling and stuff, but okay. I think That's it. Those are all my questions. Thanks I have a question here on your a5 she You've got this mezzanine and I'm thinking A5 a5 yeah, that's the the level Where the bikes are on that's a door to the bike area and it looks like on your on your postal world The word packages is that kind of an assembly shuffle space and how are people getting mail in the world here?  They has a code. They type it takes their picture They go in so if they do steal or remove somebody else's couch, you know who did it and It's great. So it's like Automated right so you no longer have to have that concierge service and people get a lot of the one most recent one We did has coolers in it. Uh-huh, you know if the sofa comes Instead of the sofa being delivered on the street you having your chase it from Walking off It goes to this room does it so correct all your you know how them I don't you know That's one of the big quandaries of the modern world is where do people leave packages so people don't steal them Maybe they don't steal packages in Santa Rosa. That's a big problem. No, it's just all the all the even subdivisions now There's locked mailboxes since it wasn't just rural. It's urban Yeah, my my tiny question then is the door swing to the package room if it's gonna take Double sofas or something that that's you know that that probably is is not that totally develops yet Yeah, I think we'll put a we'll put a four-foot door in this. I think what we'll do and That the whole thing about bike storage then is it's similar on your on your way to and from work. Whatever you've got bikes happily are Firewall they're bulk headed away from the cars all together.  Yeah, we currently have Two bike rooms. I know we haven't laid it out perfectly yet, but one is really in the garage and the other is really Off of the you know second level, so I think you know so this level, you know pipe That's probably a open-air screen. This is where you put your less good bike and then you your expensive bike You'd probably put that upstairs And you know we'll provide locking racks, so there's something gets in there. They yeah, that was my only questions. Yeah Kevin Thanks to questions one referencing For sighted architecture requirement and our design guidelines and piggybacking on Drew's comment on the south elevation and also the north elevation There's a lot of the same color there And I was just wondering if you had given thought to breaking some of that up a little bit as our city gets more vertical and these These elevations may become more prominent in the future You mean the one facing fifth Yeah, the north and the south elevations are the two that kind of stand out as And they're having less going on Yeah, I know it's a property line wall and and I think it'll look nice because it's it's not so fatty that that slot in the middle, you know really helps and then You know within When this area catches on I would hope somebody will you know build a nice big building right there right up against us because They should and I think that I think that'll happen eventually so it's it's a it's not a permanent condition as way I put it but You know, I don't I Think I'm comfortable with that because it's a relatively short length and and on the other side You know, there's two little chunks one of which would the galvanized would wrap around and then Then there's actually something that's very similar But a little narrower because and then there's that you'll see them for quite a few years probably no I think they'll look nice. That's what I'm thinking about is the next 10 years or two orders Covered up.  What was your what's or what is the idea for the landscaping element? You mean on the terrace that's terrace level. Yeah, well, that's so those units open out to it and so they're really since we made the the Al the muse or alley wider that's that's not super wide now. And so those would be more private patio areas and Landscape control or pardon. So each has their own yard as tenant control or is it is it? No? I well, this is a management question, but I in our experience You know, it depends how uptight the Management of the building is but I think you try to do it so people can put their plants out there Without it looking really awful and then it's mainly the landscape part as part of the building landscaping and maintained by the building That would be our recommendation and is there an idea for that yet about what that building landscaping might be? What we've done on this, you know, it's it's pretty nice Because it's a concrete Podium so and we have a lot of many many miles to go before we sleep, but What we've done in the past in the situation is do You know essentially a vegetated Roof, but in with a covering of dirt. So there might not actually be planters Or we might have some larger planters or you know if we get into real budget issues It might be a planner that sits on top of the roof deck. So that that is not designed yet but it'll be a patio area and and I'd be happy to share we have some Very fancy versions of this which they probably this will probably not be that fancy, but it can be Really nice Okay, thanks Eric Have a few questions The stairway that exits out onto Riley Street on the east side of the building Yes, both for entry and exit You know again, that's kind of a affordable show it here. Yeah, it's I know I I have the Didn't set this up to mimic her so Very well might have Be tenant entry so we would have you know There's some we would propose a fob there But that's really a management. No, you know issue So I Would like to see I think people would like to go in and out there You know but but it is an essential that they go in and out there. I would say and then for the garage entry is that Can that be used by pedestrians as well or is that gate? going up and down based on Some motor remote or or some other access to open up the gate to get to the car parking area yeah, there would be a gate with you know some sort of control that when you get your You know the parking space you get a fob or a Garage controller at that point and then is there and then it shows it looks like in the photos in Diagram, there's a pedestrian door there as well next to it. Well, I think we have to have that to You know exit the garage in an emergency okay, so Can we talk about I want to ask you some questions about the pedestrian passageway that leads from Riley Street? going west Along the side of the building that yeah, it's a tunnel there really why is that there? Why is it there? Well, it's we'll serve as a good place to you know access the trash So that that that can go out so those and recycling so there's that service all I think that My feeling is is that? If we didn't have it We would have an exiting issue from that pedestrian muse to where you know, it's it's like only one exit It's quite deep so I could see They're pretty sure we can't do it. I think we have to provide that exit by code Do you know what's currently there now? Where that pedestrian passage is mm-hmm It's a parking lot Yeah parking lot Correct, but the buildings that are adjacent to each other at 609 420 404 Are all attached? I mean not attached, but there's there a lot line. So there's no pedestrian access and You have it a six feet wide So and I see the trash room there. So my other question is how is Trash service going to get to and from the building because you're talking about six foot trash bins correct wide That's a good we will Will research that more about what are we need to start talking with the trash people what they want us to use and Might have to be wider If that's true Yeah, I mean you're talking about 104 units when he using one trash area And there's really no access for a truck to get there at all Yeah, we have a mechanical parking garage, which I appreciate But you can't get a truck in through the garage to access the the trash area at all correct No, it's it's not on the other end, you know we there would be we recommend and typically install a compactor and I believe often our little dumpsters are you know like three foot wide That goes to the compactor so I then you would push them out and manually Can so that's and that's what we do in this city and there's no grades So we don't have to have a will tractor or anything You know, which happens when you have it in the basement, which we like to avoid There's no basement here, which is good And you can see the wall there That you know is is the those other buildings do come to the property line, but they have no openings All right, so and then for the interior side, does there are all trash shoots going down into that trash room, right? And you know again, we have to get with our local trash provider, but we are showing the potential for three trash shoots Well, you know that We do it many ways now, but we often we are often finding that people want to have a Recycling a trash and a compost shoot and So we are you know, maybe that's not the case we haven't gotten that that would be I think the next phase We like to really sit down with the trash people because they're all And we work in Union City and it's really interesting because They don't really have designer view. They have like trash meetings and we spend I think we spend like 80% of our time They're talking about the trash. It's really kind of and they think they find it amusing too, but it is their number one concern Yeah, so I'll be frank with my concern Yeah, is you know your experience working in San Francisco Union City, etc. Yeah When you have an alleyway like that with adjoining buildings with no windows looking into the alley, right? That's an invitation for problems So, you know my recommendation is that the building goes all the way out and not having the alley But I am also concerned. There's no access there to service the trash. So Especially at six feet wide Okay, you're not gonna get a trash truck down there with a build with an access at six feet. So We don't in Santa Rosa have alleys like that running between our buildings San Francisco's experience is it attracts a lot of different problems We certainly have our experience with graffiti and homelessness in this city in that alley would that alley would be an invitation for that Yeah, I think that's my concern. We we propose a gate on Riley. Probably, you know that you wouldn't be able to Enter maybe it's fobs so that it wouldn't be become a encampment issue or a sleeping issue I think You know for the construction of it being modular that you need need that room Need what room the alley the room to get the equipment in to put up Put up those walls or can you make it? No the first two levels are type one So that's site built completely and then but I think the reason we have it and You know it will have to verify how wide we need to have it and maybe You know, we're working in Millbury now where you know They they have to drive the truck to the garbage and they can't back up and they can't turn around So we are aware that you know every every jurisdiction has a different Way of doing their trash But so so well, you know, we're we haven't got that point of sitting down and meeting with the trash people yet I think one of the things I'll just jump in and just make sure that we're Our challenge especially given this RC zoning in these priority development districts is that we're taking a look at this at a Preliminary design review, and I think I think it's great to move the process forward. You've got a project. It's about 90% baked in for site plan and We're trying to take a look at it Eric springing up comments The danger can be that if you find yourself in a situation where Trash servicing requires moving some pieces around and an alley disappears You know, you've got to come back to to staff. You've got to come back to Amy and Bill and there can be a change So I think Eric your comments are well Taken and I think that it's you know, it really is incumbent on the applicant. We can make the note in this new What I said, I think I think that exit corridor from the muse I'm pretty sure that needs to be there just from exiting from our muse because it looks like it does to me as well That's the dead in corridor. I think maybe that you know the recommendation that there's a gate on Riley Street and yeah You know you guys need to work out the trash situation, of course, which is which is an ever-changing So I think you know like if we meet with the trash and they go well, you know, we can't do that You got to have a door on the street. I think what happens is is that flex unit to the left of the stair? Becomes there's a roll-up door there and the trash goes out We'd like to have not have that happen because we think the flex units a lot better than You know rolling dumpsters out once in a while So but but that would be the solution. I think that would would end So I don't if we could note that that's a possibility and we you know have to discuss that be one less unit, but you know, it's There's all there's a lot of nitty-gritty stuff here that you know come Then boils to the surface after a preliminary design and if we solved all that now we'd have to you know, it'd be Onerous on every yeah, I agree with you. I mean I agree with you, but when we're talking about This particular alley that's not nitty-gritty, you know, if you it's a matter of of access space If the exit's required right my recommendation is if it's not required push the building out An additional six feet and not have the alley at all and it provides you with more space I think that we need to have that exit from our muse so that that's That's that's a done deal and then we could make it wider or we could not have a trash come on it, but I think that that Space there it really needs to be there because otherwise we would not have exiting from our Our little You know when you to access those yes, it's just I'm I wouldn't bet my life on it I close to betting my life said they would require that I think I have a solution I kind of I was saving my comments till after you ask questions, but I know Eric's kind of Seems like he's really fixed on this I've got a thought that I think might solve this and might also Keep some of the design intent that you have and you may have thought about this already, but maybe not so my thought is on on this particular Floor plan here What if you pulled the trash room and The two flex bedrooms that are sheet south and you pulled them Sheet east or well if you actually pulled them south and you put those three elements to this to the south So the trash room the two flex spaces and pull them to the south and then completely close the pedestrian passageway that Eric is concerned about add an interior corridor inside the building perhaps to provide that access or perhaps it's a Parcade or something like that that would work to access from your pedestrian passage out to Riley Street and Then provide access from that six-foot area Perhaps widen it to eight or ten depending on the requirements of recology here in town to get either a trash Truck back there or if the building is gonna drag You know if the building management is gonna drag the cans out you know we see that a lot with some of the other restaurants and things downtown they drag the cans out so Maybe they only need six feet to drag cans out But then provide that as the the egress point for just the cans only and so you have perhaps a somewhat controlled access point As Eric is concerned, I've got a little I drew a little diagram on my iPad if you want to look at it I don't know if that'll help but yeah, I'd be interested in yeah But as I think you know this is How so I say, you know, you know what happens to buildings when they go from concept to Right then it becomes an interior corridor That could That that that might very well be a way we go And yeah, you know, I will say the other thing just as another aside the other thing I like about having that little space there is when you have an old brick building and you're putting foundations next to it It's just awfully nice to have a little space there Between you know because sometimes their foundations stick out, you know, there's all kinds of things that it's it's it might be good Do we haven't you know done our we haven't dug a hole there yet? You see what's actually there I wonder if I wonder if it's as simple as providing a comment here that shall Provide secure access only from Riley Street in other words that all the entrances from Riley Street are secure And then you guys can work out the trash Servicing condition And you know having discussed it here It would be it would be a matter of if if if you can do that without impacting too greatly the The floor plan or the exterior appearance of the building. It's something that the ZA and staff could handle So chair birch if I can just jump in for a quick second The plans have been in staff has reviewed the staff has also sent these out as a referral package to other departments in the city And also outside agencies and in this case Rickology, so Rickology has reviewed this plan They did not provide any comments that typically means they don't have any issues with this So these these points are great as a concept review. We'll all take them under advisement But I just want to note that a different plan may have may result in issues with Rickology We know this one has been sent to them when we didn't receive comments and we wouldn't you know Even though they haven't commented on it We would be with them and go over it because you know just because they haven't commented that might mean that You know whatever the guy was on vacation or something, you know So we don't want to build a building and have them tell us they can't take the trash out Yeah, I want to apologize on one front to it did fire review though The docks Yeah, so since this one it is scheduled to go to the zoning administrator next week That means that it's been fully reviewed and conditioned by all the relevant city departments So it's the one quick question with that on sheet a6 You've got if you want to turn this sheet a6 real quickly. It's it's It shows the upper the upper floors, I'm sorry Yeah, I was On sheet a6 you have building 438 Mendocino, which is a low low pro building now if that grows if if if building 438 decides to be a 6-8 story building that into your court. You've carved there. You've got egress for all of your your units straight out either Mendo or or to Riley and that the question was you've got about a one-foot area there But if if fire has looked at this it's only a question you've got quarter access But all your other units have their their daylight access outside the quarter for their secondary And I was just curious should 438 turn into a seven-story building Those internal studios and one beds in that pocket Is that all been vetted so that safety and health is? Is in terms of well, it's not accessible Now right so it was just I don't know if it would be different It would be there would be they would be less daylight for those units But it's just a fire exit question if if if the if the quarter there is is in in case I'm exiting out in a little court. I'm just I'm trying to squeeze Toward Mendo or out toward Riley and it's you mean on the second Yeah on the on the upper floors there So there is no there is no act. I mean there the reason for the one-foot Gap is just a you know Battering building drift to not surcharge the next foot or over and so forth We you know you don't want to yeah hit that It's the moment of the sure so it's not it's not an access of anything. No Okay, so the fire department you have resolved then that the exiting out of those bedrooms and that intercourt is doable Just a quick reminder. I want to remind the board that this It's my understanding that the floor plans haven't changed from the last time this project came before the board So it's really just the slight revision that the former Gary choose site is no longer part of this project So I just want to remind you in that context And I think that could you know, we could provide By making those two studios on the ends not as big we could You know give access to that Courtyard so and you know when we again they might they might require that So I think it's doable so to go back I think Chairman birch's idea is a great idea in regards to maybe gating and fobbing or some sort of case current security system for that gate and my Just to put in there, you know a four-yard dumpster, which is normal is six feet long three feet wide and four feet tall So and on the six feet length side or where the arms for the trash Right can goes in or the the dumpster. So with the alley at six feet and You're gonna need at least eight nine feet to get in there. It's just My only recommendation is read touch back is to touch base again with the trash provider make sure that we're looking for their feedback now because It doesn't look like that's gonna work for him and which which means it's not gonna work for the apartment building So with a hundred and nine units, they're gonna need a lot of service. So Those are those were my other questions. I just want to confirm I think we did discuss it last time and Greg brought it up to me is that there are laundry units inside laundry stacked Room first stacked laundry machines inside the units. I think Correct. I didn't see any on the plans I Didn't see any laundry sir a laundry room on the plan. Sorry, let me be clear So we in the Ones and twos there's a there's inch. Actually, there's internal washer dryers and all the in that Those are those on my questions great and I have I have no further questions Trying to refine this process of going through a round of questions and then straight to comments in these in these concept reviews Drew any further comments to you guys do you have anything that you want to add or condition as we send this off to the ZA? No, I want to I have a couple of just come quick comments Again, thank you, I think the developers For having the vision. I think put this together this is something that I Think we need to start moving towards and so thank you for working with David Baker architects to kind of try to execute this vision I Guess my only comment I think Kevin kind of keyed off on it on his Questions and I guess I was thinking about it and I was trying to stick more with the format of questions then comments instead of providing a comment, but You know, I totally understand the kind of Rock in a hard place you but you're between in terms of your firewalls, but I think You know in terms of how that relates to our foresighted architectural requirement in our design guidelines I am struggling a little bit with That south and north facade and so I'm wondering And I think this is probably more a question for the developers than the architect, but I'm wondering In time in certain in terms of perhaps almost a stopgap measure in a way, right because we don't know What's going to be built next to your building, right? Nobody knows that, you know, let's say five years from now that carry cheese building does get sold and Seven-story apartment building gets put there But let's say it always stays a one-story restaurant, right? So and so you'll always have a blank wall facing the south, so I'm curious wouldn't would it be an efficient use to put Some type of public art on those facades And that would meet public art requirement for the city, right? It's a commercial doesn't meet. Yeah, there is no requirement. That's right Mixing my commercial my residential But yeah, I was just thinking like what if you guys figured out a little something to put on there But if it's just a mural or You know, I think I think cladding or using some kind of an additional Materiality or something.  Dressed it up a little bit and so that way it's just not so stark. I think that's I think that's the So you're talking about the north side and the south well just that little chunk of south. I got a little Yeah, I mean, but most of the north wall is actually got windows and Yeah, well, I'm talking about the bump outs of the north I'm talking about all the things that bump out that are flat that are against That are on your zero lot line. I just think it needs a little bit of Something I'm just wondering if art might be the easy way to solve that You know, we have painted murals on walls like that and It is a it's a Not I would not call it an easy thing, you know, it's it's actually you know, we have a wonderful mural We did in Union City, but it is a very wonderful Swiss woman who spent, you know, six months on a scaffold Painting it so and we had a we did have an art budget there so that really you know, it was it was it was a Quite you know, it was there was money involved like significant money As you might expect to paint for six months on a scaffold. So You know, I think we can study more. I think the other thing is I think that These are quite active and and fairly small and in and so I think it actually You know, there's an impulse to put something on it, but but I I'd like to You know, I think we could demonstrate that it really actually is gonna not Look like a giant blank wall because it's quite broken up. I mean it's The maximum size of a chunk is 32 feet, you know, and on the north it's 30 Yeah, it was I think it was just more a question to developers like hey, maybe take a look at it If it doesn't work out doesn't work out. It's just kind of an idea We're more than willing to take a look at it. Yes And then The materials haven't changed I was a big fan of the materiality last time I think I expressed my concern with kind of how does it fit within the fabric of Santa Rosa last time? I think me personally, I love it, but I don't know how other folks are gonna take it But you guys have probably Talked to folks and it's probably not a big deal and I guess I just want to reiterate The comment I made the last time about the affordable housing component. I just have this I guess I just have this horrible fear About this amazing beautiful building going into downtown Santa Rosa and then all of a sudden sudden no one can live there And I know that's I guess that's part of I guess our responsibility in a way in terms of public safety and Well-being as part of the the purview of this board, so that would be my last comment But otherwise great project guys. I love it. I can't wait to see it when I walk down Fifth Street Because I work downtown so please Get her done as they say thank you very much Thanks, Warren Yeah, I wanted to thank Dave and the team. It's it is really a wonderful building I think the vibrancy or vigor of it. It's it's sculpted scaled extracted as you said Over decades of time you can go back to any film noir or be back in the city the 1930s None of us were really born then but all these firewall Separations create blank walls. Sometimes there's giant Coca-Cola science and that's not the ordinance, but I really think that the Walls are stealth enough You can't really cover them in Ficus because it's a lot to maintain The cladding is is well executed where it is in the street I don't have a personal problem with letting the building just have this repose this restraint Less is less is more. I think it's going to start to lose its truth If it's giddied up too much That's that's my feeling The board here we our purview isn't really land-use policy. I know that the the whole thing about The city and in heights in various buildings when you have affordability you have concessions to grow height The next week you'll you'll have those conversations. It's not really our purview, but if if you exceed Heights anywhere in town that are code Typically you get concessions for height increase with in in lieu or age restricted And that's that's really something you'll encounter next week in your discussion I like the project a lot. I think it's really wonderful really needed I've always been perplexed as we stack. I've done some modular as you stack These cigar boxes on top on top on top on top of each other as the drift looks that That we have new exciting heights and that it all sleeves together in Sways and earthquakes, but I marvel as we continue to stack taller That there isn't a seismic truth to all that So There's a lot of structure in there. Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of threaded bolts a lot of structure. Yeah Thank you. Yeah, thanks Eric any last comments? Yeah, I don't want to be taken the wrong way. I do like the project. I liked it before as well I think it's great that we're looking at these types of multi-unit complexes downtown I You know just express the the two The two kids, you know the two concerns I had My focus is the board can tell has a tendency to be more on public safety and a Little more in function Function there rather than from the end user rather than the developer so and the architect so I Like the project I am concerned about the two things and I'll try and work on comment questions and then comments and separating those Great Kevin Thanks, just reiterate my colleague comments that it's a great project for the city I really appreciate the modular construction type the factory built at the impact on the city will be less because of that Echo Drew's comments a little bit about the the foresight are for architecture and those two elevations And maybe it's just the way we're looking at it here. It's flat 2d elevations. There's no color So there's lots of opportunity with something as simple as just some color in there and how you pick that I'm not opposed to a couple of stark walls like that. It was part of the design. I think it speaks to the overall design of the building and can add to it rather than say detract from it because you've done a lot with your articulation Your articulation is there So if there's just maybe some different colorization as part of it Then I think that would be that would certainly tackle my concerns and then really just Don't give up on the landscaping part of it I know that has to be designed to let that be a part of what's also sober about the project Thank You Kevin. Yeah, I Share the comments from pretty of course we all everyone involved in the city and and Interested in seeing housing downtown and density. This is a great project I same comment that I made the last time the ambition of this project from Materials that are presented to us is great I Hope and it really hope that these pieces can come together and that these fins can remain as a as metal fins rather than become Six-inch deep stucco bump outs that are painted on the front I really would love to see this project built as it's represented here I think that it would be a big win for Santa Rosa me too Let's do it. I wanted to you know drew to your point about what people will think about this building in Santa Rosa I had the benefit of during the meeting here There were about 18 of these high school civic students up here We're down to three and they're gonna you guys going for extra credit staying longer. It's that interesting Cool good, but I got to watch their faces during the presentation that you gave and so here's some really fresh eyes in Santa Rosa and I saw some excitement and some light and talking back and forth between them and talking about height and Saw some lips mouth very cool and to me. That's what I'm looking at I'm not so as everyone has come to recognize. I don't really care much about what Maybe the boomers in Santa Rosa. Thank you so much We need to move on past that and I looked at a lot of acceptance and excitement from a group of younger people here And I think that that's the way the project is going to be perceived if you can get it done here So thank you very much Thank you All right, we'll take a quick minute and move to 6.3 Get the applicant team down here at the podium so that they can speak We'll take a three-minute three-minute break. We'll recess for three minutes. Thank you All right item 6.3 Calling the meeting back to order concept design review for the Piner Road assisted living facility file number dr. 18-055 and Susie has a staff report of a thin a thin staff report at the concept level here for us or So the project before you is the Piner Road assisted living residents It's they're proposing a 92 unit assisted care facility assisted care and memory care facility. It's two stories 78,000 square feet and it is comprised of studio one and two bedroom units project requires design review major design review and a minor conditional use permit The site is located up on Piner Road it's Well, I'll talk about the the general plan land use in a minute. It's One of two parcels that's undeveloped right on the corner there of Bay Meadow Drive and Piner Road It's adjacent just for I don't know just to associate it with something to the Walgreens Store up there on Marlowe Here's a close-up of the site And it's currently undeveloped relatively flat and Landscaped with native grasses The property is designated it's part of Several contiguous parcels that are designated as a community shopping center It's got a the general plan land use designation is Medium density residential and retail and business services so the intent for that land use designation is to include residential commercial all you know basically to provide those commercial services in the same Block so located to the south directly to the south of this is the recently and still currently under development Bay Village subdivision and then The residential areas that have been developed their single family dwellings for for several years And then to the west the recent yogurt Times Center, which is actually under construction right now with Four-unit commercial building and a drive a separate drive through building and then of course Walgreens The site is zoned general commercial with which is consistent with the general plan land use designation And the project is not located within a priority development area and as such will come back to the design review board for preliminary design review and Yeah, and I there yeah, I guess you can at that point It will either be final or that can be delegated to staff the applicant at this point is Asking comments or requesting comments from the design review board and Give me a minute to figure out how to get their output their project up here And I'm sorry. Do you have any question if you have any questions for me? Yeah, any questions for Susie before we jump to the applicant presentation? Oh, yeah Did you say this was in the priority development area? No, I said it is not within a priority development area And it will come back to the board for preliminary design review Susie I have a question Bay Village Avenue where the wetland is that's that's marked there The there's two vacant lots right where the wetland is to the south of The proposed development, do you know what what's happening with that are those Are they not able to build on those lots or is their future development there because of we're not because of the wetlands They are approved for development development there I called the developer because at the neighborhood meeting actually a neighbor asked me about it I called the developer and he's advised me. I know that building permits have been submitted and We've kind of reactivated the building permits. They were getting a little old But they've been reactivated at this point and he was dealing with taking care of mitigation So and there is a small portion of that wetland that does fall on to the subject property And they are doing an avoidance measure so that the the project can be hopefully found In compliance with CEQA through a infill categorical exemption Go ahead Drew sorry this may be off topic, but It's calm I remember we saw a project that was On the adjacent parcel. I don't know maybe nine months ago a year ago and it had and it was I think it was that concept It wasn't preliminary. I mean is this is that the site you're talking about to the West are you talking about the ones to the south? It's the residents directly to the south. Okay. Yeah, so the Because I remember there was some some CTS or wetlands or something on the property of the West, but that's not we're talking about That's that's why I got confused. I'm sorry All right We'll look for an presentation from the applicant and its concept design review Give us the presentation We're trying to bring you guys in a little closer here so we can have some back-and-forth in discussion and So we'll we'll butt in you guys answer back. It's not the public hearing end of the world yet For next time, but if you'd introduce yourself and your relationship to the project as you start and that would be great All right, well, let me start By saying good evening and thank you for looking at our project here My name is Steve ring and I represent the developer and we're the applicant and I will let my Two colleagues here introduce themselves, but we have our architect here on our landscape architect what I like to do is talk just a little bit about the the piece of property and I'm glad you're familiar with it because one of the things that we did see on the property was as little as the consultant said Isolated wetland but from the very beginning With our design and the design that you're going to see here tonight has actually had some input from some of the agencies We had preliminary meeting So we've probably gone through at least two if not three renditions just to get to this point So some of the things that you will ask there's some sense to why it's there so to start with and I Think some of you are familiar with this lot already and the neighborhood We are just the two acres that are adjacent to Walgreens With the lot comes some Old I don't want to say old but easements that were put together 20 years ago that gives connectivity rights between our lot and the adjacent Walgreens I think the concept years ago was that they thought maybe there'd be shopping centers going all the way across the lots Or something that would have a connection connected parking. We'll put it that way As we've designed this and you'll see where our parking is located We've taken that into account with the connectivity Because we think this is really important and I'm going to have our architect Hilton talk about it but one of the things that's important to us as Susie said this is assisted living and memory care and Our mission as far as our firm is concerned And our background is to place these in spots where you have How do you say the best of both worlds? We're a commercial use but at the same time we're residential So we're always an odd spoon in the drawer But we like the fact that you do have the retail especially the Walgreens seniors Enjoy having a Walgreens right out the front door that can connect them But also what we've done is we have a path a little path that connects back to the Bay Village Avenue area so for our seniors who are ambitious enough to walk They want to take a walk. They don't have to necessarily walk down Piner or Marlowe They could walk in the adjacent neighborhood, which is a residential neighborhood. So that's why we like this site a lot We think it brings in Both you have the retail and the access and then right across street on Piner Road happens to be a Large complex which is senior apartments. It's called Orchard West right over there. So Obviously Future residents would always like to be in neighborhoods that are they're familiar with and we're hoping that might be some future residents So we like the lot and the appeal and the location for a lot of reasons as I Just outline. This is basically what you have right now Ryegrass essentially is mostly what the lot is as you can see there's a Walking path there because there's a lack of a sidewalk But what's been integrated in the design and we're already working with the engineering is that there will be a Taking on our land to expand Piner Road And we understand that and essentially where you see that dirt lot will probably almost be about where Sidewalk will be right in there. They're going to be expanding the road And that's all already being in consideration and the agencies are looking at this and talking with our civil engineering Here's another view if you look this is basically looking On the one slide, you're looking back to the Bay Village homes over there, which would be our southern neighbors And then the other slide with sort of the green green or looking grass was taken a different time Obviously is that empty lot that you were referring to? Next to us, we're not sure what's going to go on there. We did see it was shared with us I think a concept that they had put in about a year ago. It looked like maybe perhaps dense housing what looked like what might be adjoining us was the back of Some homes it'd be backyards perhaps so we're Designing with the idea that again most are connectivities with Walgreens We will have it with Piner. We can with the Bay Village with our path We just don't really know what's going to go on there and it might be many many years They do have some issues. I think that's with wetlands, which are much much more serious than our our issues quite frankly And here you go you can see looking across that's the Walgreens you see in the background and Then you'll see there's two residential homes that that's essentially our only residential neighbors now To Susie's point if the builders going forward there will be Probably three or four other residential neighbors that back up to our property But we were very considerate when we did our design and and I believe from the property line to our building is Almost I believe it's a 75 foot buffer So we didn't build right up to it and part of the reason why is the wetlands back there that we're doing an avoidance We have a large buffer per the consultant that reviewed it and also you're going to see there's a nice Hammerhead as the fire department says they wanted a hammerhead back there so they could access The back side of it and that's what you're going to see in our design And again, like I said, we had some comments from the agencies that we've incorporated including fire and that's part of what we have here so With that said what I'd like to do at this point I'm going to turn this over to a Hilton let him introduce himself and His experience one point I did want to make the operator who's also our partner and he couldn't be here this evening he has Basically about 30 years of experience in assisted living and memory care Three operating right now right now. We're under construction on a large one in the Glen Cove area of Vallejo Plus he has two more under construction Why I bring that up is he has a many years of experience so the design you're gonna see in the placement There is actual programming that's gone into it Some of the things I think learned over the years where not to play something or something should be placed Has been incorporated into what we're presenting as far as a floor plan and so forth so at this point I'm gonna turn this over to Hilton. Thank you Good evening, and my name is Hilton Williams Practicing architect for more years and I would like to admit from Sacramento, California and We are working with the operator and Partner in the project Jason raises his name and in so doing we are involved in other assisted living complexes and I I would share this with you because It in of itself has an important component and that is it is not only the developer, but also the operator and And so Being the multi-tasking individual that he is wearing more than one hat he understands the functionality and the programmatic requirements for his residence and You I think if you ever have had your parents or friends of your parents or any loved ones who have Lived and resided in these facilities you begin to understand the importance of the things I share with you I was Reviewing your guidelines and your criteria Before we embarked upon the the land use plan and the conceptual development along with the Program requirements and to quote you Your your purpose is to result in superior design and I like those phrases What is superior design? I think depends upon each project each project type and I would share my impression of superior design in the sense that it not only has a Significant functional aspect that's coupled with the aesthetic aspect and as a result the building type and the use of This proposal. I think has certain characteristics Certain elements that make it not institutional or not Retail But makes it residential makes it a type of hospitality use that Creates a sense of place a sense of being and a sense of pride for those who Will live here and those who will visit here and that was what we Attempted to do in both the planning and the design of the facility From a functional perspective we met with the city and Reviewed some of the or I should say some of the city departments and got input from them that drove the revisions to this land use plan that you're now seeing here and Those were both fire life and safety access from Piner relationship to the property to the East Walgreens of fire life safety coming in off of Marlowe the fire department was very helpful in in articulating their requirements and thus you see circulation about the 270 degrees of the building including the emergency hammerhead access on the south taking those requirements and coupling them with the functionality the Number of units that we were asked to try to Accomplish Accommodate if you will being the 92 units that we resulted in Which are comprised of both assisted living and memory care we have 66 assisted living Residential units comprised of both studio one bedroom and two bedroom and then the memory care are all studios and we attempted to create a stratification for the population in that in the memory care there is a higher level of attendance by the staff that is required and also it enables us then to Create that division on the second level where you have the blue Symbolizing the memory care with the remainder to the north For the assisted living and then the ground floor would be all assisted living in common areas that support that assisted living We've created Courtyard in in the middle if you will a donut a landscape courtyard that allows for both the Circulation the ability for those who care to use it the families who can go out with their loved ones with their Senior members of their family and enjoy the Outdoors in addition to that we have provided security so that there is a Circumstance that those who Have the shall we say the wandering characteristic? They then are captured And will be contained within Secured areas in addition for those who care to wander and are permitted to wander outside and experience the neighborhood and Surroundings they can do that and we provided pathways for that purpose in addition to that we've also provided for the community vehicle that would Be used to take the residents into the Various parts of this city for dining for Shopping and for other kinds of activities so It It is meant to to be Complementary to the adjacent commercial which would be to your east and We also Move the building off of the westerly property line Not knowing exactly what development might take place there We are suspecting maybe it's probably going to be some kind of Residential whether it's multi-family single-family or something in between the building itself I think is all good architecture will incorporate and that is having a very strong sense of entry we've created a port of chair and As my wife says it isn't port it's port cashier, so I correct my own self And the The identity to Piner I think as well established it says This is my front door and this is the entry that really is primary for the building and In the in the process we also feel that a building needs to have a very strong base to it to ground the building and in doing that we've provided a Material if you will a stack stone That is we're proposing a grouted stack stone and I think that gives it a strong base with a rain cap on the top of it then that is complemented by your Sighting that is lapped and other materials your plaster your your metal balconies your glass and glazing capped with a What I would call a rather simple intersecting hip roofs and the idea was to Create elements in the overall building that look And are divided by materials in color that create a village kind of an effect and In so doing you get a lot more interest you get a stronger base pulled out from the upper second level and In so doing that, I think it creates a lot more interest Rather informal so I think that the discussion back and forth with the board is usually Yeah, I'm I'm definitely in favor of the give and take in Any kind of Situation just wanted to give you an overall flavor of where we have come from where we have been and What is being presented to you today? so, you know, I think that the the issues when it comes to programs and Resident activities we can delve into as we go forward I think there are some characteristics that are important that Drive the design of the interior so at that point why don't we do you know share a collaboration and discussion and See if I can field any of your thoughts and questions Thank you, and I think that that's the presentation was great the Clearly by looking at the plan we've seen quite a few of these the operator Knows their game You guys have designed to it One thing that we one thing we're always certain about when we look at these projects is that they're put together by teams Who know this who know this project type and this this matches up? And you want to give a quick landscape? Discussion just just to sort of fill us in and then we will jump in and I think the format when we do run through Will be less questions and comments and more question and comment together and give the opportunity to bounce back and forth But if you want to give us a quick landscape presentation, that would be great My name is Jesse Markman. I'm a principal at jet landscape architects. We're in a rinda. We've worked on quite a few of these projects We have we're working with fulcrum on another product as well I think one of the things that Hilton said that really keys in if you to the site plan is a sense of place and Not just a sense of place to the residents But also to the staff that are working here and to the family that may be coming here on a regular basis As they'll mention one of the important things is this kind of Circulation around the site providing opportunities for staff and residents to walk both around Within the interior of the courtyard the interior of the courtyard has a nice canopy Has some planters on the inside some of which may be stormwater planters. We can talk about stormwater It's like and then at this at the south end you can see the this the wetland there that we're creating a very strong buffer Keeping both the parking and the vehicular access away from that. I'll mention also. There's a path. Is there a little pointer? Going on this screen. Sorry. I meant you can see this but the path that was being mentioned is here So this path comes in from the adjacent neighborhood and then you can access into the Walgreens And so that was a really important piece of this as well Providing a really strong entrance to support the portico share and the corner of this building at the up-on-piner to really provide a good sense of arrival and then working with civil and architecture on the placement of these stormwater basins and the Westside path is going to be permeable paving for the most part and then for the most part we have Asphalt and then decorative but have perhaps stamped asphalt in those kind of decorative areas Great. Thank you very much Drew I think being that this is a standard old concept Instead of instead of an RC concept we're trying to come to some I think a start in the dialogue is just is just great So I know you're scared about question comment, whatever, but but let's let's open it up and talk And get the interplay with the applicant is part of what we're doing here. I'm not scared I just you're just trying to be respectful of you. You're scared of the chair. I understand Yeah Okay Where do I start? Well, let me start with what you're missing. How about that? So when this comes back to us Or We and probably just me actually more than anybody else I want to see what your trash enclosure looks like. I want to see fencing details sections In terms of the planting plan I Think it's good, but there's a little I think for me. There's a little bit of vagueness about what trees what and So I'd like a little bit more clarity on Plantings and let me just jump in for one sec. I assume that you guys have the full checklist full checklist for Preliminary review that's Susie's got so yeah, I'm just running through things that I'm interested. Yeah, just real quick and then Probably with lighting, you know the exterior lighting if I'm gonna want to see all that I Think and the reason I want to see the trash enclosure and the fences and the building and materials and All of that is I really I firm would believe in kind of a holistic design of everything so The trash enclosure shouldn't be like an afterthought. It should be an integrated component of the way that the building is designed Otherwise, it's just gonna look like a trash enclosure the fencing shouldn't just be you know Random fencing it should actually integrate with the design of the building to create I think what you guys were talking about a sense of place So I guess here here are my kind of overall comments I'm having a really hard time identifying any real architectural style on the building I'm seeing kind of a mash-up of a bunch of different things and and so with the stucco and what what looks like stucco and Lapsiding and and then the stone it you're kind of sort of mimicking arts and crafts, but the detailing of the paneling particularly at the port of chair seems For lack of a better word a little trite and trivial I'm not under stem having trouble understanding the column detailing particularly out there with vehicles That are gonna crash into it And then there's similar column detailing throughout that I'm having trouble understanding There's a usage of Lapsiding I think the best way I can put it is What appears as white laps lapsiding because it appears as white on I think three of the elevations And then it kind of shows up as a tan on the fourth it really feels kind of Lost in terms of the Materiality that you're trying to create between the the stone and the stucco that exists in some other elements and then As much as I hate to admit it because I'm not a huge huge fan of stucco But maybe a different color of stucco would make more sense in terms of the lap siding Because again that the lap siding just doesn't seem to have a home. It just kind of feels like it's Kind of splattered The the portico share I'm having a really really really hard time with the portico share particularly the scale of it You know we have a an element or design guidelines about massing breaking up massing and To me that portico share just feels Really large large and in charge Whereas I think in terms to create a sense of entry it needs to be lower than the main building height and perhaps You know all this kind of excessive detailing that exists on it with the paneling and the clear story windows and all that I Just don't think it needs to be there. It just seems like there's a lot of lipstick on a pig in terms of a functional element And then I think the other thing that I'm struggling with a little bit Is some of the the detailing at Where you've created bump-outs with with an additional gable on it some of them have windows some of them don't and and it We were I was Warren I were kind of Flipping back and forth on the plan and the elevations trying to figure out what was going on in those locations And it just seemed like there was either a service space that kind of occurred kind of randomly behind it or something and so it's breaking It breaks my eye a little bit moving down the elevation And then I think where's my last note? I'm sorry I wrote it here And then I'm trying to figure out where that chimney is coming down It's shown up on the elevations, but I was Digging through the plans. I'm trying to find is it a elevator shaft. Is it a mechanical shaft? Is it Is it where all the vent stacks are popping out? Is there is there in fact a chimney that I'm a fireplace that I'm missing? Or is it you know Did I miss it Oh, there it is. Okay. I found it. Yeah, I'm good now I just couldn't find it was so tiny. I just couldn't find it. It's in that library lounge space Okay, so Chimney, okay, I just was trying to find the fireplace um And then I think I think lastly the other thing in terms of the site plan That I'm struggling a little with and I think it's the fence design that you have I mean you have a very opaque kind of monolithic fence designed And particularly if you're talking about transitions between adjacent residential neighborhoods and and where the Walgreens is and I mean, I think the fence makes a lot of offense of this type makes a lot of sense Perhaps on the piner road side because of The super highway that is piner road We don't have that In our packet I think you're I think the drew is referring to the image of a property line fence that's on l 1.01 in the package We did receive which was the heavy stucco fence with the yeah Yeah, because we don't have it all in the caps. Yeah Um Yeah, so that's better Yeah, that's starting to be better Then what was in this packet that we have? Yeah, this would be the suggestion of the trash enclosure. Yeah. No, I think it's Along the west property line, which is a combination of your columns and your metal And our apologies if you didn't have the whole package But we did submit this part of it to that fence line that you're seeing there's on the south side We wanted to be very careful There's going to be a path on the other side So we didn't want to create a corridor, you know for security purposes obviously and because on the What you don't see is on the other side that path is the six foot fences of the adjacent residential neighbors So if we did a fence six feet up You can picture a long corridor and that's just that's just asking for trouble. Yeah And then I guess the last question I have Because I have a bunch I guess here the wetland protection fencing that is on the the packet that we have I guess maybe I don't know enough about wetlands But Isn't the purpose to keep people out from disturbing them? So then this little low fence with the rope. I mean is that really am I wrong? I'm I'm told yeah, if I can comment on that. Yeah, actually our consultant who came out there and gave us a report which which In her words, she uses this is probably the most degraded Isolated wetland I've ever seen in fact. It's only a depression of dirt basically about six inches Her comment and she said quote unquote You could put just a little fence with ropes around it and little signage that says protected area. Please keep off she said that was Fine and sufficient for her. Okay. Have you been to crissy field? Area down, you know, so that's a pretty typical um, you know protection is Pretty simple cable or rope with posts and I'm just not I guess I'm just not that familiar with it So I just more pose the question. Hey, is this enough or if there were, uh, you know frogs and things like that And there we would need a different type of fence Because it's just a wetland right and wetlands Stretching it. We even had our wildlife associate come out and say there's nothing living here. Yeah. Yeah, I think vernal pool is actually even more specific That's not I walked it today. It is dry as a boat. Oh, yeah, I'm I'm I'm familiar with the site. I just um Yeah, I just was more curious. Um So I guess those are my comments and my questions Great morning a lot Thank you. I first I wanted to compliment the team particularly on the The whole core vision of health the the plan has a lot of redemptive things that always Tend to create people with bigger if you're not always sleeping in their pillow pillows are for diabetes So you're getting people moving And I like I like what's going on the plan a lot. I know, um The the whole issue of I I understand you're working through with your civil on big rains and how ground is absorbing and This is more conceptual nature, but as you work on the landscape basis, you may have parking lot permeation Between all of your plantings being able to absorb And filter all those things The comments about dialing in on your plants We don't really have a landscape person on our board anymore, but between a Uh leaf maintenance and there there's always talk about if you plant a Chinese silk oak, they're going to die in the frost of 2021 it comes comes through it's 18 degrees here for four months somewhere four nights, but whatever We do have stinger things that happen here um, but uh, I think the landscape will be Um, certainly something to consider inside and out. Um, you've got this kind of in light quality So the scale of the plants when you're sitting around in smaller settings will be scaled in larger um If you put back up on the screen that your your fence we didn't see there's this kind of a a forerunner um, what's kind of wonderful here and and just maybe Hilton to mention this Here you have A language of stone that feeds up to a column. That's also stone And there's this there's this level of Of strength yet kind of permutation. There's there's kind of a nice rhythm here And if you go back to your elevation, uh sheets What's interesting, uh Yeah, if we look at the the top here, um I don't know. This is okay. Here we are um The stonework your is this going to be actually a cut real stone or is it culture? What If it's a stacked stone Will be grouted, but it does come in a panelized form Okay, so it may be well, what's interesting here is that maybe along with drew's comments There's there's rustic architecture and there's formal architecture and the the stonework that you're introducing to the to the um Project is is a strong language this the stacked stone. It it does have its virtues of being maintenance free Sometimes maybe you've heard of piz a which is concrete or even heavier stucco You've seen a lot old buildings in sacramento where where you have that same luck, but if If it's going to be a true stacked stone The idea of how that's worked around columns to drew's point Firstly you had one three-day elevation. We hadn't seen where you actually had a A foil i'm going to call it a freeze Which is you have vertical it's implied here That either this is a stucco panel or wood panel But to drew's point, um, I know that you have deliveries around the building Where you don't need an 18 wheel stiff back coming through here And the question of bringing this down some Birds typically have a high mortality when they're flying through glass this indoor outdoor But i'm i'm not really seeing the virtue of glass here as much as I am maybe wood Um, you know think of cedar um because you have other elements. This is either finish I don't know if you're you're thinking of using azac or liken these um these little outpost Where are they here? You have these out outpost this this element here. This is an outpost of of wood I'm not sure if that's painted Wood treated or cedar but Looking back at the strength of your fence if if this was stonework as you come up It's it's kind of been Maybe hasn't been completely thought out here as the columns meet this But if the glass disappeared And you had vertical wood That was almost rail like and and the whole form came down the birds would live because they could fly through it But i'm i'm just trying to get the vocabulary of what What is rustic what is battered and what appears to be an architecture that it's mostly plaster This looks like it's it's either wood in some cases. See here. This isn't scored. I think I saw some cases This is either wood siding that has to turn corners and that's more of a blister more of an out an outgrowth This is solid stucco So maybe to drew drew's point The colors are are I think pretty acceptable There's so much going on in the elevation that if If there was a sundowning of the siding And the stucco carried the day if the stucco was two colors, that's one one consideration in some cases Some of the windows were just left out. It was in other elevations. Um, but when you do have arches Number four On the other one, but yeah to the left Okay Yeah, it's right. Yeah, right here right here. There's actually a window up there. So that's just uh an oversight I'm I'm having more joy without the arches The the the language in your port to share Is is straight if you think of rustic kind of uh Jack london architecture of cedar And stone It seems like if this thing came down it would appear less spindly it needs lateral anyway but just the idea of this being Rustic wood, you know eight by eights or whatever, but but they're spandled together That is really a warm wonderful look. I think you're on to something with you do want a great entry But pulling this down not necessarily having such precious railed Paneled work, but going back to your fence detail Um, I think the architect should be quite successful if it didn't have the arches Maybe the maybe the siding isn't really um as as vital But but just coming down to the fact that the stonework Needs to particularly be imbued at the front that feeling of shelter more than uh Delicateness, I think strength over delicate Is is at least important at the base I almost wonder if if another column this is a huge span and you're and this is quite a shaker up there, but What you and if you go back your plan a minute, excuse me if you could go to your floor plan Thanks, this is all right. Okay. This is all so Here here is your this is a huge span. This is Gotta be a strong 45 feet of run here. You've got three lanes. Maybe those are 12 each 36 but that's that's that's 42 or better In a span and you can't avoid that. I'm not asking you to put any columns there but the The idea that the thing is lower And you've already been experimenting to some degree if you lost the glass and created Some sense of a way that this is boxed together. I'm not asking that the lowest beam be clipped in and uh splittered by Uh bob tails going through but but I think that could that could use something I I know that where you have where you have the um the actual I'll use the word pilasters here. There aren't really parts of the rooms I'm not saying don't keep the pilasters, but maybe at the upper levels levels. Maybe they're not as needed I just I just want to compliment you. I really like the plan It's splendid how you're getting people to mow gate move around Move around the exterior. I I have no contest there I know that the area is kind of tight inside. I think you can cover that with landscaping You have vestibules, which are kind of reminiscent of super inclement climate, but that's no that could be a noise thing, but I'm um I'm just I'm just saying Or maybe a security issue some of them some areas you have you're not best You're not double vestibule I've asked you to help rescue people on the highway that have gotten out wonders And I got an ice alia for that once that was nice, but Um But I I just I just love the plan. I love the fact that it went to compliment you there was going to be I'll really date myself here. I think I'm the oldest guy in the room. Maybe There was going to be albertsons at the site of giant albertsons with 500 cars in a parking lot And it was going to be then kind of mixed with all kinds of their housing bill I love this story. So there's no albertson here. You're taking precious land and doing a very important service And I like how compact it is I I think you're really efficient in the acquisition They're respecting mother nature. So I think it's it's with me. It's got good marks. It's just Maybe quitting creating kind of a quieter poetry outside That uh would would quite think things down There's japanese poetry with 17 syllables, but that's all I'm saying. It's just a few less Comments Thank you Chair birch. Yes. I I want to add one other thing if I may Um, and it's more of a question Um, I I agree with Warren on the floor plan. I think that's why I didn't say anything Because I think it's nice. Um, but I do have one question and it's more, um Kind of from a balance standpoint, I guess in terms of The way that you've almost established the the floor plan There is almost a symmetry and a balance to it all and then Maybe the answer is uh, no, I'm you're crazy. We thought about this because of the functionality of the the building, but It seems to me like you have kind of core services on one side and then you have all the rooms Other than that, um, and I just was curious if you explored an entry into the building Across the central access from east to west And put the the center the central core elements in the in the middle and then put rooms on either side on the ground floor And then obviously the second floor would be the second floor in that regard So I'm just curious if you had explored that at all here We we probably have done four different iterations to the floor plan and always Are somewhat conflicted relative to how do you Create opportunity for the sleeping Requirements And then, um Provide an opportunity for exterior Courtyard like we have here, uh, it would It kept dividing the space into actually almost two different buildings and in so doing When you look at the dining and you look at the social interaction and aspects and the the point of access for all the guests it Lacked what I would call a focal Clear understanding of where that entry was because it kept ending up on the side of the building On the long side of the building and One of the aspects as we you know ended up carving out If you just took that common area and moved it It divided the building up in a very awkward Characteristic, I think you're right. I agree with your comment on that portico share. We We struggled with this. Uh, we've talked to the fire department and the other emergency services and Given Given the fact that everyone has to pass through and under it Begin to suggest to us. Well, why don't we get rid of it? and create a More shall we say scaled entry To the building and that is being explored along with What bothers me is this parking node here Um I think it'd be a friendlier building. Yeah, pardon. It'd be a it'd be a really friendly building. It seems a bit imposing. I Years ago. I did a on oncology cancer center. It has a large pork a share up in found grove and it's for people that The the walk in life is is questioned, but I think what's what's friendly about no pork a share is that it's It's kind of like a lot of historic buildings around here where you you can just walk up to them like like a hotel and I don't feel perhaps a little less impinged Yeah, and I I guess my last comment too would be I was just thinking about this as he Warren was talking about the wood and everything and the pork was shared All the little hip roofs on all the bump outs I was just thinking um, you were talking about kind of a quiet respite and rusticness If they were all false gables That had just a little bit of the elements that you're pulling at some other pieces might be interesting That's my last comment. Well, we we actually in The vision that we started with here is you know, we did a tour of your neighborhoods and looked at some of the other similar kinds of facilities And Came back with what we thought we were Concerned about and that was having a building that's 250 feet long and not having the kind of Massing and articulation of that mass creating a a smaller sense of scale and and maybe we got caught up in in this challenge and then Applying the the suit of materials to it and the colors to it kept us kind of Solution going and I agree it could probably be calmed down I thought your question about a quieter poetry was Was well said and in And it probably applies all the way around and when we get to pricing this out the developer's probably going to say Warren thanks a lot for that suggestion well, you're You're you're bigger. You don't have any shading But look at the look at your site plan your floor plan. Look at the vigor in the action in the back and forth The the sun's going to track around this and it's going to give If if people are losing their memory, it's going to be a different building every day because the sun will change and So that it's powerful right there in the site plan. That's going to be cool looking at that from Well, you know also it's always interesting We are very close to the heartbeat And the pulse of the the design and it's it's You know, I think always good to hear The other side the professionals who look at this all day long and think of their city and the uh Show you say the Characteristics of design excellence. So I thank you for your comments Great kevin I should say I thank you for the comments to date Uh But I'll try I always try to be a math wizard. So you got always throwing those structural comments in there Let's see the first thing I just like to start out with is I really enjoy the way That you're celebrating the landscaping and the outdoor experience of the residents because I think that's a wildly important Um, it would be a benefit to Potentially if there's a way to eke a few more feet out of that courtyard space Because I think that's going to be a place where people really gather I can sell from the plan that's it's limited right and you're really pinched in that direction But it is two stories on both sides of it So it's going to be pretty tall and I think it looks a little slender If there's a way to get a little more a little more room in there I think you'd see a lot more use out of that which I think would be a benefit especially in our climate here in Sonoma county There's been a lot talked about on the elevations Um, and at this point, I'll probably say I just agree with what the comments has been made Um Particularly the arches was one thing that stood out to me that wasn't really working with some of the squareness of the elevations, but I thought was working I really do appreciate the articulation along the perimeter and what you do with the roofs there So many times we see these types of projects, but there's one big flat roof that you see and that's what we were trying to avoid We really appreciate that. Um I heard someone say metal balconies. I think you described metal balconies, but in the elevations They look more like wood framed or got more bulk to them And I really enjoyed the metal on the fence Yeah, the more that those balconies And the railings there could make that I think would be a benefit to the project Let's see I think everything else has already been covered. We need to go over it Eric thank you for the presentation. You actually Answered a few of my questions when you were going over it. So I appreciate that I do like the project Um, I Agree with the earlier comments about too many the lap siding and too many different Types of of siding on the elevation So I'm not going to go over that again the The shared access to the adjacent parking lot at wall greens How does that Deed look in other words, can you move where that shared access is or is it specific to where Where you have it in the project plan you talk about on the south side on the yes in the south in the southeast corner on the side Right here. Yeah that connection right correct. Yeah, I should say southwest. Yes That came about with The meeting uh with the fire department and uh talked about access from the road over on the west and coming behind the store And having access to to the uh To the site itself We initially when we were Our initial site plan had Another point of egress and ingress here And here run to piner. So, uh, we got to looking at the Earlier concepts that The land uses On the west uh suggested and that's how we started with that and then it was Thought by traffic that those may be In conflict with the future road on planer And trafficking coming in and out of the shopping center. So this has evolved as a result Okay, yeah, I appreciate that and Yeah, the answer is A couple other questions. So, um, I guess my My only More are we going to go to Comments later. No, I think I think you're just working our way around and we can also open it back up for these guys If there's anything that they're they've got a question about as well We want everybody to get the most out of this that we can okay In regards to the I don't want to be All I focus on is trash, but it just happens to be that today Our predominant wind is north northwest and where the trash enclosure is is adjacent to Residences that are currently there very close so My recommendation or would be to maybe look at moving that enclosure to the other side of the shared access So to the north side of that So that way we don't have those odors and and we're a little more friendly with the neighbors that are already existing I'm sorry right about here Yes, yes so Because otherwise you're right Right next to the neighbors that are back there Your questions your comments earlier about suzi's path answered a bunch of questions for me So I think it's it's great that having the path there for Your residents to be able to walk around the the neighborhood The covered entry you guys were talking earlier and saying you may not go with that And my recommendation would be to keep it it especially Looking at all your residents and visitors While we don't get a lot of rain we get about four months worth. So Trying to get those residents and guests dry on dry pavement in and out of vehicles without slipping I think that covered Access entry area. I think it's attractive But two I think it'll be a great benefit for those residents and visitors So I would encourage you to keep it There so Or if not move it Move it elsewhere. I see You know where the first several parking stalls are as you enter the complex or partially covered Maybe extending that if you're looking at removing the the cover in the front So That was it. I appreciate it Great. Thank you and I'll I think you know Warren and drew really covered a lot of my comments about architecture and I think it's a It's it's great for us to actually not try to talk somebody into more detail or why the articulation of a facade is important. So I I do think that I understand very much the the mission and creating Some variation and trying to get that village effect But I think it I will say that warren's Comment to quieter poetry is really great because keeping movement keeping material keeping articulation But just letting it be a little bit a little bit quieter would be great as far as the pork as share goes and I'm also going to say about the site plan It's been really interesting the past five years. I've been on the board to watch this puzzle start to work itself out between The bay village subdivision and the the shopping center and all these pieces and I do think this is a great use for the site I think that It's probably It is a it is an interesting challenge for an architect or designer to stick the entry to the building on a corner Like this and turn it out. It's uncomfortable, right at the same time I like the way that it reads to piner road and to me Seeing the front of this seeing the front of this building, which is the corner on piner road Um With a thoughtful architecture with or without a pork to share but something that Shows the corner but is is great and piner road can use Little it can use a facelift in places and so as much as it's instinctively maybe Odd especially for an architect to turn something like this I think that the face that it does show to piner road rather than the wall greens parking lot Is great and not seeing the side of a building there will will be good. So I I appreciate the layout it is it is different As far as the pork to share goes I could take it or leave it I do think it needs to find a different scale and complement the building in a different way on the corner if it does if it does stay but You know again as I said when we started I've never never seen one of these projects walk in that the operator didn't have a great idea of Who they're who their customer is and I love the internal corridors the interior corridors With the jogs in them for the richness of the experience of living there and not just walking down straight institutional corridors So I just there's so much thought and care As the way the building's Going to function I think touching up the exterior a bit and getting a full package in for a preliminary design review Would be great and we'll look forward to seeing you guys back At this point any other questions from us you've gotten a lot of input and is there anything that we can share with you or Actually, I was just going to say And thank you. Thank you for the comments because again, we've done a lot of work This is really what motivates us is to build something better because we really feel this is our The mission of our firm is something better Going back to the port of couture and and I'm glad you pointed that out, you know, I've probably seen 30 40 50 different sites over the years Talked about the port of couture consistently and even the one we're building in glencove has a big court of port of couture It's very much functional and when you say that especially with the rain If you think about the average residents, they don't get in and out of vehicles as quickly as we do and also when you have the Van that's moving wheelchairs in and out. It's a very slow process So I do agree we can rework it But I think we're going to need a port of couture that that really is the the the length of what we have because Again, like I said, I'd rather have like a nice eyebrow or something like that But it really it's the functionality. We really do need it for our residents and and for a safety concern also Is what it is so You can well imagine putting the port couture on a diagonal on the nose Is a challenge in how to diminish it and So we are sensitive to that and we'll look at possibly moving it a little bit to the west and You know integrated A little more successfully with the mass of the building on the left and on the right But uh in in terms of the materials, um, we uh We'll go back and and I think take the suggestions That have been shared here today and how to calm it down and make it shall we say simpler and Think about the You know the rhythm of it In a in a way that possibly doesn't have the Shall we say if I can use a term lightly frenetic appearance to it And bring it back to you hopefully with the kind of Sensitivity that you're looking for You tell your design captain. We just need a quieter poetry and then leave the room and see if you get a Perfect. Thank you guys very much Yes I'm sorry bill. I actually have one more thing. We forgot to touch on something As a group and I just realized it. I like your orchard style parking That's something that we I'm sorry hit orchard or orchard style parking So the fact that you have little fingers and you have plantings and stuff Typically, we like to see it. I think around six spaces between them But I think what's great about what you have is you have the trees in between that's that are bridging that larger gap and normally if we Unfortunately, we lost a board member recently who would have been all over this and so I think The architects over down here on this end of the table need to pick that up a little bit So, yeah, I really appreciate that. I think the the landscape plan is fantastic and More information about what's going on. I think it'll just really help us fully understand what's going on And actually I would leave the portico share right where it is because it's not it's not the location That's the issue. It's the scale. No, no, I but I think if you were to Relocated just from a design perspective you have a little more Shall I say clay to work with as opposed to Having it out on the corner like that We're there Okay, just a suggestion. I don't know if you have If you're prepared to go through and just itemize the the general comments We've heard if not Susie can run through what she's heard just for confirmation. Typically. This is funny again We keep bouncing around I've been itemizing On concept reviews in our seas But going with the old way of doing things On a more typical project not not in a priority development project and letting the and and we haven't been I have not been putting down the comments So that's been So I didn't itemize tonight at all on this item Okay, we did and I'm wondering if the board through the chair wouldn't mind if we summarize them very quickly Just to make sure we can get confirmation. That would be great. Okay I know it's okay. Let's see the trash enclosure looking at possibly relocating that to the north of the The existing driveway that driveway on the east On the east side of the property We like that. We like the the landscaping but we would like some clarity on the planting We want to see detail on the lighting Um, they uh minimize or simplify maybe the um citing materials and um The quiet poetry. I think that's the quote of the evening Portica share a lot of discussion about the portica share and I just want to make sure I understand that we like the location of it It's necessary. I think we all agree for for the the people who will be living there And um, we want to reduce the scale of that and revisit the design overall Let's see There was some discussion about um simplifying some of the features the window Whether they're arched or uh square I'm I'm not entirely sure where that landed. So if you have a clear idea Hilton, I think that I think the messages to have a little more commonality than variety. Yeah, okay. It's not yay or nay It's it's really it's a just I think it's the overall I think it's I think the applicant has it. So yeah, and and that too that same Concept applies to some of the the metal features the railings on the The balconies and the fences just tying them together um And I think That pretty much sums it up Did I miss anything critical the fencing? I yeah, I talked about the fencing the fencing and the and I want to apologize I'm not quite sure that they this plan that you're seeing up there. There should have been more plans in your Packet and I said the fencing has a credibility with the the stone columnar Vertically coming out of the the baseline And that things like the pork a share this this whole idea of the stone Working strongly like that Make make the building more consistent to look like the fence. Yeah, the the building could I think learn from the fence I think is what Warren's trying to say. Yes a little bit. Is that Yeah That works. Yeah I think the pallets great. You just need to Brand it in. Okay. Thank you Susie. You bet. Yeah. All right. And with that, we'll send you back to Sacramento and Orinda, thank you very much Thank you very much. We'll see you guys back for for preliminary for public hearing soon. We hope All right. Thank you All right, let's take uh five minutes for quick five minutes for item 6.4 Don't leave At this time Board member Zuko will be leaving the room I think we're ready to call the meeting back to order Take your places Introduce item 6.4 concept design review For storage pro 2 and garden apartments at 43 58 Sonoma highway file number dr 18-051 And we will start with Staff report from Emmanuel correct. Yes. Thank you. Hi. Good evening. Emmanuel Urs. It's a pleasure to be here this evening This is a phase two of a storage self storage project. Um, it consists of both storage facility and multi-family residential It's a concept design review So we heard this evening as with the prior item to receive feedback input from the From the board that the applicants and the design team will then use to refine the project As I mentioned, it's a 30 unit multi-family residential development Plus and those that's in a three-story building Plus a four-story 124 000 square foot self storage facility The project requires land use entitlements including a minor conditional use permit and major design review The property is located in the retail and general business land use designation of the general plan It's similar land use designations on both sides From the from this facility the Storage pro phase one project is just to the parcel to the right Of this exhibit or to the left when you're down on the street looking at the project site It is in the general commercial zoning district. This use is one of the allowed uses in that in that district And here's a Overview of the site plan the residential component is up along the street Parking for the residences are between the residential building and the self storage building at the Which is towards the back of the building Storage pro one is at the upper side of this Diagram there's an existing ace hardware store On the lower side or the I guess that would be to the uh towards the west And I will let the design team get into the the details on the architecture This is what the front elevation of the multifamily project is proposed to look like And this is the rear elevation. This is the side in which the parking would be facing These are the four elevations of the Storage facility which would be at the back of the property The project is not in a priority development area And it will come back to the drb for preliminary design review And as I mentioned the applicant is seeking input from the from the board at this time before they proceed further with their application process And with that uh staff is ready to available to answer any questions you may have Questions for staff real quickly What are the city? What's the city requiring in regards to it looks like? Uh, they're adding off-street parking. So is that a city requirement? Sidewalks, and I know that the roadway is actually regulated by caltrans if i'm correct Uh, yes, this is uh State highway 12. So it is uh, caltrans jurisdiction. There are parking spaces on the street The zoning code does not allow on-street parking on a regional Street that's designated a regional street in the general plan to be counted toward the parking requirement Um, so they are required to provide the 100 percent of the Uh parking for the residential facility or for the entire development on site And there's no sidewalk. Um, no sidewalk that currently exists out there. I there's a contiguous uh caltrans spec sidewalk There's the whole the the master plan for all of uh highway 12 It's it's a caltrans spec and it's a Uh contiguous meaning it's I think it's an eight foot sidewalk Seven i'm sorry. I was a foot off. I'm sorry Yeah, it's seven feet And that's that's the ticket for the whole corridor The condition at storage pro one will basically be that's the model. That's what this one will follow Okay I just didn't see it. All right. Thank you any other questions Move on to presentation from the applicant and again being a concept review Really open to we might pop in with a question. Uh when we have questions we'll Look for a dialogue. See if we can Get to get to it here. All right. So give us your name and a relationship to the project when you start I'm Mitch franer. I'm a principal with archeologics. It's fun here 50 Santa Rosa Avenue. Sorry And we have here with us tonight, you know the applicant steve marabito of storage pro peter helman of Court property court properties Ralph Strauss with stg architects. They're the architect for the residential component We're handling the storage building and in christine talbot of quadriga to talk about landscaping and denis dolby From cdc here to answer any civil engineering questions So i'll just probably double back on some of these slides that the manual So, um storage pro Was completed about maybe three or four years ago And it's the project if you're looking at the image on my left, I guess you're left too You see the basically the three buildings. That's the front building which was the office And storage facility and then as you move towards the creek we had two additional buildings Um And then the property to the west which at the time was retail and I think maybe there was a residence there You know certainly wasn't in play So the concept or the idea for steve or for storage pro was to let's face it build on the success of what they have there now And uh, and he can elaborate on you know what that success looks like but needless to say It was a property this or four properties that are all going to be blended together We're going to have two separate properties and we'll talk more about that in a minute through the residential beast But the idea was that we're going to build out more storage space and the primary difference between the phase one and phase two for storage is that the phase Is this the pointer Maybe I go back here So you can see the two building I'll go back to that left image You can see where the building split apart the reason that happens because we had a utility easement If we didn't have that we would have built one large building which is what we're proposing to do with phase two It's just more efficient. We we don't have redundant costs in the form of elevators and lobbies and so forth. So So what you see is the big footprint actually it's The number I had saw up here was 120,000 square. It's actually 148,000 square feet of storage It's three levels above grade and then there's a basement. So it has four different levels And we have similar Topography and that the front part of our site that faces highway 12 Uh, is it higher than you know, has it falls, you know to the creek so We do have a All right, okay No, there we go. So we do have grade changes here Over on the eastern edge of the storage building What cdc has done with the civil work is to blend the two projects So what you do is if you're coming to go to your storage space you come in through the The original phase one gate drop down and I'll show you Uh Actually the landscape one And you can see where you drop down and then come around our building and then this gate here is only a It's only an exit.  There are a lot of storage spaces And the one on the left is the lower level of the basement The access is along the creek side. This is a lobby two freight elevators This sort of hatch area that you see around the perimeter on the on the lower level or the first level So we say at grade level you have access to storage units with roll outdoors very similar to what we did on the original phase one Buildings. So there's no parking no, you know, like parking stalls for this building all the parking And you know would be up at the original office. So it's basically You park alongside the building or you stack or you park over here and go into a lobby and and go up Or down as as the case may be to your to your storage space and Try and explain the combination of the sizes, but it gets a little bit complicated for this late at night so Okay, so the architecture What we're proposing and I actually brought a couple samples of it's going to be The storage pro red where wherever we have coiling doors or or or man doors exit doors or lobby doors The base material is going to be sort of a rough Split face block in a dark gray And then the corners of the buildings are a little bit higher than the body of the building. Shall we say so that would be So these elements get a little bit taller The difference between this building or this approach to the building versus phase one phase one had metal siding We're not doing any of that on this this time. It's just too expensive. So this will be a structural block building Completely the upper band will be this kind of metal Sort of sort of a metal cornice. It's about 15 inches In height It may not be ribbed like this But whatever we have to do to minimize the oil canning effect that we get with you know, break shape metal This is the doors the sort of storage pro red and then we have rough sawn block here And then none of you've seen the if you go to phase one right now you see where they took the The split face block and they sanded smooth. It's beautiful block. I mean, I was really glad that steve used that It was one of those things a good value engineered up that he stayed with the program, which was great so The accent colors above the base will be this sort of smooth block that has that you know And I can bring them up if you want to hold them and look at them and so forth So um So we're trying to just be a good neighbor, you know, we're wrapped by the creek We wrapped by phase one to the east and to the other side the west we have there's that Hardware store that has a building that's right up against our property So there's no residential around our building other than you know, what's happening along the street so I don't know if there's any questions before we transition to the The residential do you want to Have us break them apart or you want to see the whole the whole deal I think probably roll to the residential and then we'll do it all together. Yeah, okay All right. I'm gonna turn it over to ralph and he'll take you through the The residential piece. Excellent. Thank you ralph Strauss sdg architects And we have a one acre portion of the site, which will contain 30 Garden apartments garden style apartments in a three-story structure We broke the building down into three Components separated by breezeways Which will provide the access to the upper floors through stairways this building fronts the the highway 12 With the front elevation on the upper slide farmhouse style Which will echo the the building which is across the highway, you know in its form. I