It's Thursday and that means Acting Analysis Day and today I'm going to talk about the movie Take Shelter. Take Shelter is a fantastic movie. I love that movie. I'm gonna go through a couple of things. I'm gonna start with the small scene at the beginning. I'm not gonna spoil the whole thing but towards the end there will be a scene that will somewhat spoil a character development but this is so long. There's gonna be part one of Take Shelter and it's gonna be probably three, four, five parts not maybe every week but in a couple of weeks I'll bring it back and I can scrub through what we have here. I want to talk about this beginning scene just because it fits into tomorrow's FNA about weather and how people react to it. Today I'm going to talk about this scene. We have an awesome scene coming up with that especially this going on. Then one of my favorite scenes is this. So good. So much to talk about. Then of course followed up by this fantastic scene. Oh this is so much good stuff here and then this which I could potentially skip. This is kind of a recap and then I don't want to go too far into this because it's awesome. I highly recommend you watch the movie. Like I said absolutely love the movie directed by Jeff Nichols. He also did Mud and Midnight Special and Loving. I haven't seen that one yet but I absolutely love Take Shelter. Let's take a look at it right now. It starts off fairly, fairly slow and I show this in class at the Academy and also for mentor students. I'm gonna show the whole sequence but for you I'm gonna skip forward to the second scene but just quickly there's something about as this happens how he reacts here with his eyes, wincing and if anybody has gone outside which I hope a lot of you and it's raining and you look up you're gonna have you know your eyes are gonna win stuff is going to go into your eyes. This could be something where it's smoky stuff in your eyes. I mean again this is going through for tomorrow. If there's anything that happens outside of the character in terms of heat, in terms of the weather or anything else you should have your character react to it and again it could give you opportunities for some fun acting and in this case you wonder why is he not reacting to this and it's not really water and so on and so on and the reason why I'm showing this in class as well is the transition between this and this where we hear the water sound and then it's the shower sound so you don't quite know if it is a dream or is it a memory so he's under the shower and he's thinking about it or it was a nightmare or it was real and he has to wash off that weird liquidy oily type of thing you don't quite know and it's a cool setup for the movie but it also kind of establishes him as this big giant that's just kind of pondering life stuff is on his face he's not running away from you know from whatever liquid that's on him it's a cool setup again I'm just going on and on because I love that movie let's skip to that scene so at the beginning you can see they're having breakfast his wife is cooking here and he has a dog and a daughter and technically he could just walk by say hi there's so many things you can do with your main character walking past his wife his husband the partner a dog family members roommates whatever it is could be like an evil look to your roommate who hasn't done the dishes or in like in this case his daughter and he has his touching and the kissing and he's very loving and affectionate and the thing is there's no dialogue there's nothing else in there but let's pretend that in your scene you have it could be a pantomime or it could be one character talking to another and throughout this whole scene where one character talks to someone that's either off screen or it's two characters you could have a third character in this case could be the daughter just kind of looking and passing by delivering the dialogue the secondary action could be how he says hi to the daughter or fixes something or helps her or maybe it's a little kid that puts on the shoes and he just talks to the wife or the wife talks to the husband and it goes down and ties the shoes or could be whatever business but that extra character that again doesn't have to have audio or lip-sync it doesn't have to be that much extra work but it gives you a chance for your main character or multiple characters depending what you're seeing is to show how they relate to other characters so this could be a character in a park a classic scene where a bad guy walks past the kid with a balloon and he has a little needle or a cigar or something and pops the balloon again that little secondary thing and how he interacts or how she would interact with someone else can tell oh that's a villain or that's someone that's really affectionate and nice and caring or completely on drugs and somewhere in the clouds or not care or whatever it is so it's short it's a short scene and I'm going to go through the other scenes in the future I don't want to take the whole thing again this would be like a two or three hour long acting analysis so I'm gonna keep it short but I think it's something that I rarely see in acting clips and even in animated features I mean they're not that many fully functional families the Incredibles has a lot of fun into place between the family a lot of times one of the family members is missing because you want to stop your character where the main character has a tragic loss and they have to overcome that and fill that gap with something else a new character something else it could be a classic story arc like that but if you have in your scene could be a test or whatever it is and you have other characters full family or again could be roommates or could be just friends somewhere you can have that where someone maybe someone sits next to a friend and how they interact quickly glimpses or like I talked about in true detective when someone gets a play of food or whatever takeout food they could hand it without looking or do they have to look just the interplays the interactions the eye contact the lack of eye contact or how long do they look is it uncomfortable or whatever it is you can use that to your advantage and I think in this case is really cute and for me resonates because I do that with my little six-year-old I smell his hair I pinch his little cheekies and he's still at that age where he likes that maybe I don't know but I see this and I can relate and I think it's important that in your shots that you have something where the audience goes oh yeah this is this is familiar I know it is oh this makes me happy seeing this or this makes me sad it's like when you see an entangled you see the horse that kind of acts like a dog because a lot of people have dogs probably I don't know if it's more than horses but you're probably very familiar with dogs so you see the scene and like oh the horse acts like a dog that's funny so if you have something like a fantasy creature an alien whatever it is that has a form that you don't really understand on top of that with some weird alien noises where just everything is alien the the audience just can't relate it just going to be so foreign that there might be a disconnect so a lot of times when we do creature work at work we try to find even if it's a fantasy creature we try to find some animal creature that humans know that they can relate to and we put those characteristics and animal behavior into that fantasy creature so they can go and they as in the audience how I know this this looks familiar I don't quite know what it is but I think I know and I think it's okay I can look at this and not feel like I don't know what this is the weirdest thing ever I'm gonna disconnect and not follow that movie anymore but anyway going back I think this could be really cool I think you can use that in your scenes and again it could be a small thing this is fairly short it could be something I mean not that your your parent to go by and and smack the kid over the head but it could be something where maybe the kid does something that the kid is not supposed to do and the parent walks by stops still delivering the line to the other person but breaking eye contact looking down still talking and maybe tapping on the hair or tapping on the cheek or the kind of putting the hand on the shoulders putting some weight to kind of distract the kid from whatever the kid was doing maybe putting the hand on the freshly painted wall whatever it is right so there's a lot of things you can do and again this is short but I think really important and something that's overlooked and I overlook maybe maybe not used enough and again this is take shelter I highly recommend you watch it because it's so awesome if you have let me know let me know in the comments I'm very curious because I don't know how many people I've seen every time I ask them have you seen take shelter no they don't really know about it so any fans out there let me know let me know in the comments if you like this give this a like that my usual spiel at the end subscribe hit the bell button for all the notifications because I upload every day if you watched the whole thing till the very end with your very precious minutes thank you so much I really appreciate it and if you want to keep watching tomorrow is Friday that means FNA Friday and the last part of how an environment makes your animation better and if you're still here thank you again


In this video, I want to talk about how we can solve absolute value inequalities. Now, like when we solved linear inequalities in a previous video, to solve an absolute value inequality, we're going to begin by finding the markers along the real line. And we do that by solving the corresponding absolute value equation. So with the example right here, if you're trying to solve the inequality, the absolute value of x is greater than 3. First, switch it over to the equation, the absolute value of x equals 3. And like we saw in the previous video, since 3 is positive, we get that this is solvable and we'll get x is plus or minus 3. This is going to give us our markers. And so what we're going to do is then mark these on the real line. So we're going to get x is negative 3 right here, and we're going to get x is positive 3 right here. So we make these markers. And we've learned previously how we could do this using like a sign chart of some kind. Take the x-axis and divide it into three places, negative 3 and 3 by our two markers. I'm actually going to do this because the sign chart requires test points. And I'm going to proceed to do this with a graph. But just as a reminder, if we wanted to solve this using the sign chart, we have our markers 3 and negative 3. We didn't have to pick a number that's on these intervals. Like between negative 3 and 3, we get a 0. If you want something bigger than 3, we could do like a 4. That would work. And then less than negative 3, we could get a negative 4. And then you plug these back into the original inequality. That's what we want to do. So if you take the absolute value of negative 4, which is itself 4, is that greater than 3? The answer is yes. So we're going to put a check mark right there on our sign chart. Great. Let's plug in 0. The absolute value of 0 is equal to 0. Is that greater than 3? And that's a nuh-uh. That doesn't work. So we're going to put an x right here in our sign chart. And then lastly, if you want to take something bigger than 3, take the absolute value of 4, which again is 4, which is greater than 3, that works off. That works here. And so it passes off. And so we're going to put a check right here. And so what this tells us is we want numbers less than negative 3 and greater than 3. So we build the interval negative, negative infinity up to negative 3. Union 3 to infinity. Now do we put brackets or parentheses on the 3? Well, if you're exactly equal to 3, it doesn't work because we don't have a greater than or equal to. We have strictly greater than. So since it's a strict inequality, the markers are not included. Therefore, we're going to put parentheses, thus giving you the answer you can always see on the screen. So we can solve this using the sign charts we talked about before. But I actually am a big proponent of solving these inequalities graphically because the test points require doing arithmetic. This one wasn't so bad because it was just the absolute value of 3. The absolute value of x. But as these things get more and more complicated, the arithmetic for your test points get more and more complicated. And the less arithmetic we can do, the less likely are to make mistakes because in mathematics, that's where the primary mistakes happen when we do arithmetic. That's why man invented calculator to try to avoid those arithmetic mistakes. So what we're going to do here is think about the following. We have our markers x is negative 3 and x is 3. And if I were to rewrite this inequality in a very different way, I could write this as the absolute value of x minus 3 is greater than 0. The reason I'm doing that is let's introduce a function. Let's introduce the function f of x is equal to the absolute value of x minus 3. The reason that's significant is that we're really trying to solve the inequality f of x is greater than 0, which really means we're looking for where it is above the x-axis. Above the x-axis, we should mention that. Where is it above the x-axis? Now, if you graph this function right here, this is just the standard absolute value function where we shifted down the vertex by 3. So the vertex is now at 0, negative 3. It's still going to be going up. It's going to have x intercepts at 3 and negative 3 because we found the markers already. And so you see this graph right here. If you have a V that's pointing up, where is it going to be above the x-axis? It'll happen when you are past 3 right here. And it'll also be above the x-axis when you're to the left of negative 3. So by looking at the graph, we can see very quickly where on the graph are we above the x-axis? Where is the y-coordinate bigger than 0? That's what we mean by above the x-axis. So we can very quickly see that we want to be less than negative 3 and we want to be greater than positive 3, thus giving us the interval negative infinity to negative 3, union 3 to infinity. So other than solving for the markers, which is basically unavoidable, you don't have to do any arithmetic if you solve it graphically. And now that seemed like a little bit much, but let me show you some more examples where I'm actually going to draw these ones by hand. So considering this inequality here, let's first solve the equation. The absolute value of x minus 4 minus 4 is equal to 0. So we want to solve the equation, the absolute value of x equals 4. So x equals plus or minus 4. I'm going to play markers on my x-axis based upon that. We get a 4 and we then get a negative 4 like so. Now the next thing to look at is what's the coefficient of the x right here? It's a 1, which means my absolute value is going to look something like this. Oh no, my drawing is hideous, right? I didn't even hit my x-intercept.  It turns out you don't actually have to draw a really good graph right here. We just need to know the basic shape of the graph. Because this absolute value is going to be pointing upwards, we see that the slope of the absolute value, there's no reflection on it. We know that this thing is going to be pointing upwards and it's going to cross the x-axis at 4 and negative 4. Well, what are we looking for? When you look at this right here, less than 0, this means we're looking for those points below the x-axis. And if we want things below the x-axis, that's going to be this sector right here. So despite the crudeness of my graph, I can see that the solution is going to be negative 4 to 4. We want all numbers between negative 4 and 4 because that gives me below the x-axis. And because, again, it's a strict inequality, no equality is allowed there, it's going to be parentheses negative 4 to 4. So we could do this by test points, but I can actually get it very quickly without any test points whatsoever. Let's look at another example. So we want to solve the inequality, the absolute value of 2x plus 4 is less than or equal to 3. So solving the equation, the absolute value of 2x plus 4 equals 3. 3 is positive, so I can proceed.  This will give us 2x equals minus 4 plus or minus 3. And I'm actually going to break this up in the two cases. You get negative 4 plus 3, which is going to be a negative 1. And you're going to get negative 4 minus 3, which is a negative 7. Divide both sides by 2. My markers are going to be negative 1 half and negative 7 halves. In which case I labeled these on the screen right here. Negative 1 half is right there. And then negative 7 halves. Let's see, that's almost negative 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, but it's just shy of it. So we get a point that looks like this. And again, looking at the original thing, your original slope is going to be positive. This thing is going to be pointing upward, like that. And so you get this picture. Your absolute value graph is going to look something like this. Honestly, the vertex is going to be lower. I drew this to scale. It would actually be about right here, wouldn't it? Because we get a shift down by 3. But I don't want to say you need to worry about that. This doesn't have to be a very good graph. Honestly, when I draw these things, I don't even bother labeling the x-axis. I just draw a line like this.  So it's like, but boom, like this. Oh, this is the number negative 1 half. Oh, this is the number negative 7 halves. Your graph doesn't have to be very good. We really just need to know the direction that the graph is going. Now, if we want to be less than, less than tells us we want to be below, below, and always will be below the x-axis. That's always the reference we're looking for. So if we're below the x-axis, we're talking about this sector right here, or this sector right here, depending on which graph you're looking at. And therefore, we then see the solutions will be negative 7 halves to negative 1 half, because we want the stuff between. But since we have less than or equal to, this tells us that we're going to have brackets, brackets. And so this then gives us our solution. Negative, we take negative 7 halves to negative 1 half inclusive. We include both end points. And so whenever you have your absolute value is less than or equal to some number, right? This is going to tell you below the x-axis. If we have less than, it's going to be below the x-axis right here. The difference between less than or equal to, right? Just a means do we include the markers? If in contrast you have a greater than something, that would actually be above the x-axis or greater than or equal to will be again above the x-axis. So assuming the absolute value is on the left, greater than means above and less than means below, which kind of makes sense, because that's what the numbers, that's what the symbols mean. Greater than means above, less than means below. And so let's look at a few more examples right here. Let's take the absolute value of 1 minus 4x is less than 5. Because we have a less than right here, I can already tell you that we're going to be looking for things below the x-axis. And we're going to have no mark, and we're not going to include the markers because we are strictly less than 5 here, okay? And so then solving the inequality, the absolute value of 1 minus 4x is equal to 5. 5 is positive so we can proceed. 1 minus 4x is equal to plus or minus 5. Minus 1 from both sides, we get negative 4 equals minus 1 plus or minus 5. Again, I'm going to simplify this thing right here. Negative 1 plus 5 is a 4 and negative 1 minus 5 is a negative 6. Divide both sides by negative 4. We get x is equal to negative 1. And then we're going to get 6 over 4, which is the same thing as 3 halves. It'll be positive like so. And so we can either draw these to scale or we don't even have to do that. Negative 1 and 3 halves like this. Again, looking at the original expression, do I see any negative numbers in front of my absolute value symbol? The answer is no. So this thing will point upwards like so. Again, is this a perfectly drawn graph? No, it's hideous. It's so not good, but it doesn't need to because only the direction matters. If you want to see something drawn perfectly to scale, you can actually look at the graphics in the lecture notes attached to this video, but I'm intentionally not doing that because we don't need them right here. Because we're looking for the things below the x-axis, we're talking about this sector right here and therefore the solution would look like negative 1 to 3 halves because it's strict inequalities, the end points are not included, the markers are not included.  You're always looking for either the beak of the bird or the wings of the bird. And as at SUU, our mascot is the Thunderbirds, right? T-birds. You can think of it exactly that. When you draw an absolute value graph and you're solving an inequality, you're either looking for the beak of the Thunderbird or you're looking for the wings of the Thunderbird. Those are always the options when you solve these inequalities right here. So looking at this right here, okay, we have greater than or equal to. So I'm gonna be looking for those that are above the x-axis and I do wanna include the markers this time. Solve the equation, the absolute value of 2x minus five equals three. Well, because we have equals three, we can continue to solve here. We're gonna get 2x minus five is equal to plus or minus three. Add five to both sides. You're gonna get five plus or minus three, which if we consider these two possibilities, you get eight and two. Divide both sides by two.  So we'll make those on our graph.   So no reflections. That's all I care about. Did we reflect it? So the graph will look something like that. We want the things that are above the x-axis. So we're looking for the wings of the bird this time. There's above and there's above right there. So the answer would look like negative infinity up to one. Bracket, because we include the end points. Union four to infinity. Again, we use a bracket because we're including the end points in this discussion here. And so this is typically how one will solve an absolute value inequality. We can do this with, with, uh, uh, sign charts like we did the first example in this video. But if we think of it from a graphical perspective, we can get it much, much faster. And I think we're less error prone in that situation. There are some things that you should watch out for. Now, if we were to change this problem, if we change this to be negative, the absolute value of 2x minus five is greater than or equal to three. I would caution you if there's a negative sign in front, there's two ways to proceed. You basically, uh, you basically continue on with the way we did before. Um, you're going to find the same markers, but I, you can do that. But I think actually the best approach here is just start off the inequality times being both sides by negative one. In which case you're going to get the absolute value of 2x minus five is less than or equal to negative three. Like so. Uh, and so when you look at something like that, okay, you can then be like, hmm, wait a second. Absolute value less than a negative. That's not possible. There's no solution here, right? And so then we can be kind of done by looking at something like that. Um, so that's one possibility. If you're absolute value, if ever you get absolute value that's less than or less than or equal to a negative, then the answer is going to be no solution. That's not possible. Um, on the other hand, let's, let's work with this picture a little bit more. What if we had actually greater than equal to three in this situation? Again, times both sides by negative one, you're going to get absolute value of 2x minus five is greater than or equal to negative three. What happens in this situation? Absolute value greater than negative. That's not, that's not a no solution. That's actually all solutions, right? You have all real numbers work here. All reels are going to work in this situation because absolute value is always, it's always greater than a negative. And that's also true if you have greater than or equal to. So when you, when you compare an absolute value with a negative, my recommendation is before we start jumping to the equation, which the equation say, well, there's no solution. The direction does matter, right? Because if our absolute value is greater than a negative, we're probably in the situation where we have a line and our function is basically sitting above the line. And so it's like, oh, the function is always above the x-axis. So everything works. Yay, all real numbers. But the other situation could be like our absolute value is always below the x-axis. And if you're trying to look for things that are always above, you know, this thing isn't there. It's like, when is it, when is it above? Well, there's never anything above. So there are situations like that. And that can be handled in a graphical approach as well. So my recommendation is if ever you have a negative sign sitting in front of your absolute value, so you have a negative one, just multiply by that negative one to get rid of it and then switch the signs and act accordingly. It's because if you're getting an absolute value compared to a negative, then you basically have these options. If absolute value is less than a negative, no solution.  And those are some special cases to look out for. They don't show up that often. But if they do, handle them accordingly. If you're comparing to a positive value though, like we saw in these examples, pick the beak or the wings of the Thunderbird.


The understated government in partnership with Gender Mobile Initiative has described the rise in gender-based violence and the growing cases of sexual assaults and harassment in higher institutions of learning. Speaking of the signing of the partnership agreement in Akore, the understated capital, special adviser to understated governor, Olamide Falano said, the project was born out of the need to have active collaboration with civil society on the prevention of gender-based violence in the state. On our part, the executive director of Gender Mobile Initiative, Omo Omi Ogoro Timi, said the campus safety initiative has been adopted in universities across the country and that a partnership would allow the state government to adopt its model to address sexual-based violence. We want the very best for our state and I'm excited that this day has actually come for us to commence activities in accordance of our state response towards ending gender-based violence in understate. This project that we're signing on to today is actually born from a need for us to actually have active collaboration with civil society and active collaboration with partners across the board towards a more connected state response and towards this prevention of gender-based violence in the state. That sexual and gender-based violence, particularly sexual harassment, is on the rise and it's really important that we rise to the occasion to address these issues. In the last four years, Gender Mobile has worked with institutions of our learning essentially to address sexual harassment, adopting a tripartite approach of policy design, community-led bystander intervention, and also creative integration of technology to ensure that we are promoting institutional accountability, we are also fostering access to justice, we are promoting survivor-centered reporting, we are also seeing that we are able to generate data for improved policy and programming response. Of what is happening all over and the things we watch and unfortunately even what we see on the social media, so it goes beyond targeting the institution, it's also important for us to ensure that mosque churches, the believability of our religious leaders is very high.  I cannot show you, some persons will be failed from beating their wives. One dream, what is happening in the suburb? What is happening in our villages? If we can have such things taking place in the city, what about the suburb? How are we handling what is happening in the suburb? So I want to please encourage us so that the security personnel will be able to do our job better by doing more of advocacy. I want to advise that we should create more awareness. Telling people, telling the women, telling the men what they are supposed to do and what they are not supposed to do. It's not that they don't know it, they know it but they refuse to do the right thing. When people refuse to do the right thing, there will be a lot of criminality in the society. News updates.


Welcome, Martin. Please tell us a bit about yourself and your interests in longevity. Hello, my name is Martin Liposzek. I'm from Slovenia. At the moment I'm a PhD student. I'm doing PhD from philosophy and my philosophy thesis is focusing on life extension or longevity. So in details, I'm applying phenomenology and existentialism as a source of thought to the questions in life extension and longevity. Interesting. And how would you characterize the outlooks of phenomenology and existentialism on longevity? Obviously, there could be different thinkers within those paradigms of thought who could have different views, but what is your overall impression? Yeah, my impression is that life extension is actually under-researched. We have a very small number of philosophers who actually research this new field, which I believe is really important because so big changes in the way how we live are actually opening up new perspectives, new way of thinking about ourselves and about the world, new explanations of ourselves. And this is completely new field that is really not studied enough. Yes, I completely agree that it is insufficiently studied. Are there any philosophers, either historical or contemporary, that you think have done a good job covering the prospect of radical life extension? Yeah, we have some contemporary philosophers who are now working now and they are also some of them participating in our longevity movement. But historically, philosophers, unfortunately, most of them, we have some very small number of exceptions, but most of them are accepting this view that death is not a good thing. And one explanation is a simple internationalization to actually help humanity deal with death with such a way that you say it's something good for you and then you don't care so much and you are happy about it. Yes, it seems that a lot of historical philosophy has served the purpose of providing consolation rather than solutions. But there have been some, I think, quite good thinkers historically who rejected death. And one of them was the Marquis de Condorcet, for instance, who unfortunately died in prison during the French Revolution. But he wrote his history and the future progress of mankind, where he posited that essentially mortality from old age could one day be overcome. And Benjamin Franklin is another example. But you're correct that historically, because mortality was inevitable for the vast majority of our existence, I think philosophers tried their best to find ways to make peace with it rather than to fight it. Yeah, mostly. There are exceptions, but we can start from Sokrat who said that he is looking forward to the next world where he will continue speaking philosophy, so death is just travel and so on. Then you have different other philosophies. Yeah, there are exceptions, even the some famous one, for example. You can find even some sentences in a reading card who said that science will actually also help us deal with the problems of aging and so on. So there are exceptions, but mainstream is... I hope that now, since we see that aging can be addressed, that I'm hoping that the mainstream will also change. Yes, and it's interesting how philosophy can itself evolve and respond to changes in technology. So while many philosophers would consider their work to be fundamental in terms of describing the nature of reality or man's place in reality, so to speak, in truth, that understanding itself evolves based on what is possible and what is widely recognized as being possible. Yeah, I would agree. Philosophy is actually really this kind of spiritual work that is connected with the whole sphere of humanity, of human beings. So it goes in both directions. For example, science inspires philosophy and philosophy inspires science, and through the history it went in both directions many times. Yes, there are certainly feedback loops involved. So would the public be able to read some of your research at some point in time, say, when you finish your PhD? Yes, in around two years PhD will be finished and I'm also happy to do it. I plan to do it also in English. I mean, the final thesis will be in Slovenian language, but I plan to do like a short book or bigger book also in English language to share my findings. Wonderful, so we shall be looking forward to that. Yeah, and I have one more thing to say. Yes. So I'm also leading Society for White Life Extension of Slovenia, which is NGO, who promotes longevity in Slovenia. And we are organizing a conference on healthy aging. This will be on 10th of October in Ljubljana, so everyone who is in this region of Europe is welcome in person. And we also have a Zoom or YouTube stream, so feel free to connect us and watch the conference. So this will be on October 10th in Ljubljana, which is the capital of Slovenia. There will be an online option for anyone who is willing to join. I think this is a great idea to spread awareness of longevity science and of course the philosophical and advocacy dimensions of it as well. So I wish you all the best with that conference. I'm also curious what your impressions have been of Longevity Summit Dublin so far. This has been the third day of it. Yeah, it's fantastic. I mean lectures are very high quality and we hear some really groundbreaking new stuff. And also the people here are just fantastic. I mean, it's like meeting old friends, you know, that you didn't know before. So it's really fantastic. Yes, indeed. And we are all friends here because we share a common purpose, a goal to uplift humanity and uplift ourselves in the process. So thank you very much, Martin, for joining us today. It was great speaking with you.


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Hello and welcome to Take One Tech, my name's Alec. It was a bit broad really, that little introduction. Normally I try to be a little bit specific about exactly who the video is for, but this video really is for anybody who uses a Mac because I want to tell you about a great way that you can get access to a whole load of really top-notch high-end apps for a really reasonable price. And that is through a subscription service and a sort of app bundle, if you like, through an app called Set App. And the way it works is you pay a single monthly fee of $9.99, and then for that you get access to this whole library of apps. And as I say, these are really top-grade apps that I've been using outside of Set App for years in any case. And basically they have brought all of these developers together to be able to offer their apps through this one single subscription service. And what you'll often find is that if you go through to the actual individual websites for the individual apps, as well as the purchase from their site directly, they'll often redirect you to Set App anyway because it is a great way to get access to, as I say, all of these interesting and useful applications. So that's what I want to talk to you today. I'm gonna show you some of the apps that you can get through it. And then what I will plan to do, or what I will do, is also record a number of specific videos about some of the best apps that I'm using from Set App that I use on a day-to-day basis. So without further ado, I'll get straight over into the demonstration to actually show you how it looks. So now I'm sharing my screen, and this is the Set App app that you have on your Mac. And you don't need it open to actually run the other apps, but this is the way that you sort of browse for it for applications and download them. It's all done within this single application. Think of it a bit like a sort of iTunes, if you like, but for applications, or I suppose it's a bit like an App Store, really, isn't it? But there you go. So this is sort of the Set App Store, then. Let's call it what it is. So over on the right-hand side, the left-hand side, I'm getting everything wrong today, aren't I? Please forgive me. Over on the left-hand side, you've got this little menu, and then you sort of come into this little Explorer splash screen, if you like. And here you've got some recommended apps based on the other apps that I've used, new arrivals, so new apps that have been added into their catalog, and then also recently updated apps. Then we've got some favorites. You can have apps that are favorited, and why would you have that and not have them just installed on your computer? Well, this is one of the beauties of Set App, is that you can just add apps in and take them off your computer all from within here. And so if there is just some apps that you might use occasionally, so maybe you have some for specific graphics usage, maybe like resizing images, batch resizing or something like that, but you're not gonna do it very often. You might wanna favorite the app and then just download it when you need to use it, and then offload it when you don't to free up some space. So that's one reason why you can favorite apps. Then there's also a list here of all of the ones that you've got on your Mac currently. Then you can group them by collections as well, so specific groups of apps. And then this is where you come down to the actual store itself and it has the apps grouped into different categories. So that is what we'll look at first. So if I click on all apps, here you can see it literally, as you might guess, just all of the apps. Now I'll just flick through this so that you can see just how many there are in here. It is over 200, so this is just a way to visualize what that looks like. But you may have noticed some sort of familiar icons in there if you've been using the Mac for any amount of time. But also they've got them grouped here by different categories. Oh, and you can also just search for an app in the top if you know which one you're looking for as well. So let me have a look first. I'll just come down this little list of categories. So we've got lifestyle. So there's a few in here, different things like VPN. There's a couple of bloggers there. Downey, this is one of the first ones that I'm actually gonna cover in one of my little videos about specific apps. So Downey is a great app for downloading content, video content from any website really. And it comes with a Safari plugin and a plugin for Chrome and other browsers as well. And just allows you to basically take any video off that's been embedded in any website. And lots of other great features that come with that as well. So that will be the first one that I will release probably later today or tomorrow. And then yet lots of other apps. And as you can see, they're just all grouped here. These are all the lifestyle ones. And if I go into creativity, so this is a good one for looking at different sort of color palettes and things like that. Lots of camera effects, things like this in here as well. Ones for creating glyphs for icons and so on. And again, these may be sort of familiar names to some of you who are working in the creativity space with graphics and things like that. Pixel Snap is another good one. I'll be doing a video all about that, which is good for measuring on-screen graphics. So if you've done any sort of graphic design, web design, these are common tools that you will sometimes need. This is a great sketching program. So I have that for the iPad, but also on the desktop as well. And when you use it with a sidecar or with an iPad as a second monitor, it's a great drawing program. I should point out as well that you can see which ones I have. So if you've got the app actually installed, you can just open it there. But if there's another one here, that you want to download, it's simply a case of clicking the install button and it will just download it and install it straight onto your computer. So that's how easy it is. Then we've got developer tools. So lots of ones in here to do with coding and things like that, different coding environments. And yeah, some of these are duplicated. So if they're related to like this one, we just saw it in the creativity space, but it's also part of the developer tools because developing apps, you would need to know the dimensions of on-screen elements and things like that. But it just means that they're all grouped together quite nicely. RapidWeaver, that is another one for creating websites without coding. Personally, I was always a coder myself, but there you go. It is a popular application nonetheless. Productivity, so we've got some great ones in here for focused time. So that's a bit like the Pomodoro Technique, I believe, that sort of counter. BusyKel, BusyContacts, two great apps there. So like I say, I've got a lot of these apps already that I had pre-installed that I'd actually bought before I discovered or before SetApp was around and I've been using some of them for, as I say, over a decade. And yeah, really good apps. DefaultFolder is a different, an alternative to the MaxFinder with some extra functionality in there. I did try that one out at some point, but I ended up coming back to the Finder because of having multiple Macs. I just found having things consistent across all of them was easier, but still it has got some good features in there. So I think you're getting the impression there is really a lot of great apps. Bartender, I couldn't really live on my Mac without my bartender. That's the one that I have up in the top that organizes my menu bar and so I can split things down into basically have an extra area where you can store all of your little menu bar icons, the ones that you don't have space for in your main menu bar. So that is a great app. And incidentally, I did do a video all about my top five menu bar apps, specifically for people who are either live streaming or producing video content as I'm doing in a sort of live production environment as in recording it direct to your computer. So I'll leave a link to that video up in the top corner and down in the description as well because all of the apps that I talked about on there were actually set up apps as well. So you can get them all through a set up. Next, we have a writing and blogging section. So Mars Edit, I've been using that for over a decade for blogging on various different platforms. That's a way to actually do your blogging in on the Mac and then it just posts it down to whichever wherever your blogs happen to be. What else we've got in here, Ulysses. That is another good writing program. Personally, I've still been using Scrivener. I've been using Scrivener for years for writing but Ulysses is also a great option. And that one also comes with an iOS app. And I should point out that there is a section down here for all of the apps where there is an iOS version as well because you do get access to the iOS version so that it can work with the apps that you've downloaded from here. And then we've got some other sections. I'll just quickly flick through them, Education. So you've got things like here for mind mapping and things like that. I've been a user of mind node for a long time on the Mac and on the iPad. So as you can see, it's not listed as installed here. That's because I already have it installed from before I used set app. So I would say all in all, if I come up to my on this Mac it shows me that I've got how many apps here? Is that about 16, 17, 18, something like that. But I would say I've probably got another 20 of these apps that I use pretty frequently that I just happened to abort before I got set up. So at some point I'll probably just bring them all into set up and every time I have to make an update I'll just not do the update. I'll just download the latest version from here. And that is the other great thing about this is that with this single flat subscription fee of $9.99 a month you do actually get access to all of the updates.  And as I say, there's quite a lot of them there. So one thing I've got to do now is actually tell you how to get hold of this haven't I? So if you go over to takeonetech.io slash set up that's S-E-T-A-Double-P then that'll take you through to the set up site and you'll be able to sign up for a two week free trial. And if you use my code then after the free trial if you decide to go ahead with set up then you can get a free month by using this link and just full disclosure part of their referral program is that I also get a free month as well. So if you use this link and then sign up you'll get a free month and I'll get a free month as well. So everybody wins. But this isn't about the referral links it is all about the actual apps because as I say, they're things that I use day in day out anyway. So I hope you have found that useful and if you want to hold off on taking action then don't worry because I have got a whole series of videos planned as I say that are all about set up and specific apps that I'm using from that. So maybe you might want to check out some of those and see if you really like the apps that you can get. The other thing I should point out is that it is a great way to actually try out a whole load of apps. So you could go and have a look at the catalog of apps that they've got in set up and download the trial and then you'd get to try out all of these other apps for two weeks as well. And maybe you feel like set up is not for you you maybe don't want another subscription but you will have got to try out those apps and then you can go and maybe buy the odd app that you do did like out of it. So in any case, there's a few options there and if you have found this useful then please like and subscribe to the channel and turn on notifications so you get notified whenever I make any new videos. And if you know any other Mac users who may benefit from this sort of content then do also share the videos and channel with them as well. But in the meantime, I will create that playlist all about set up and I shall leave it just down here at the bottom right and until the next video, I hope you all have an absolutely wonderful day.


Hello. Hello. Hello, everyone. Hello. It's people about five minutes to join in here. We're in those five minutes. I have the meeting dog already open. So please add yourself to the meeting dog on the agenda. Obviously, Operator Working Group provides an update today, so I'll pass on to you immediately. Flexing the PR. I brought it up yesterday in the TOC meeting. So just that, you know, it's, I've seen the issue that you want to move to incubation, but the official call to start the due diligence test has to come from the TOC, so I informed them yesterday and expected they tell us that we should start working on it. If you want to accelerate things, obviously we can share the due diligence documents that we have been using in the past review. One last item that's not really right, that's just right because usually you do that very twice here. Obviously it's work on the give-ups working group. I think you also have Cornelia here, that's great. Okay, so I would propose we keep the last one will be most likely a longer discussions. Let's try to keep presentations to 10 minutes. There's plenty of times for the individual topics, and then I pass over to the Operator Working Group. After I figured out where my student, so I can stop sharing, which I can't right now. This is inconvenient. Sorry, here we go. Sorry. It was behind another window with all the people in here. Who's doing it? I will do this. Okay. So, okay. Hello everyone, my name is Thomas. Oma will help me presenting the current progress of the Operator Working Group. Now to recap a short recap on the chart of the Operator Working Group. So, at first the goals of the Operator Working Group was to define an Operator Majority Model to define some patterns and use cases for end users and so on, how to use an Operator and kinds of Operator Security. Some points defined what people may want to get out. So, this would be what are the components of an Operator, what components are not part of an Operator, and best practices and patterns. And the first defined goal of the Operator Working Group was to finish the definition of an Operator, and therefore we created a white paper. So I think Oma will take on this slide. So, what have you learned so far? Oh, sorry. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, so sometimes, okay. So sometimes it's about semantic, the wording is something that is very important. And that is one of our main goals to get the wording and the semantics right so everyone can agree on it. That being said, we are trying to make the definition board range, trying to describe the curriculum, the characters of an Operator and not being very specific. As we understand that an Operator is something that is broadly used already. And when we start talking with people, we got some interesting topic and comments. One of the examples is the threat model that we will take with security. And the second one is an Operator outside of Kubernetes as we are CNCF working group. That is also something we are trying to think about it. And what happened in the last few weeks? So we started the Operator White Paper. And Thomas said lead a small group of people. One of them. And we tried to get consensus inside a small group. And from that consensus to go further out. We talked about what an Operator is, and we tried to define some base wording and semantic around it. Which leads to the capability model. That is described in the document. We felt that it's more appropriate for the documentation to be structured in a capabilities way. And as I said, we found some outside contributors, some from security and some from other working groups around Operators. We're starting and there is a draft and there was a link in the first or a second slide. And going forward, we will probably try to build something tangible as some code samples and maybe solve real world questions around operators and how it can help in the operation of day one and day two. Okay, yes, so currently we want to get to the first draft of the paper. So we are currently adding an improving content in the working document. We try to agree on the sections during the meetings. Yes, and if we think the sections are ready, we mark them for review. As some of you might have seen, we have sent out a request for review in the mailing list. So everything which is marked for review can be reviewed by everyone of you. So comments are very welcome. After two weeks of this review phase, we will raise a PR against the IP delivery repository. And afterwards we'll discuss the changes the last time it merged. Our goal is to get the first final draft until the end of 2020. So I hope that this will work. Yes, currently, we are trying to make good progress. So I want to relaunch the directly meetings which are mentioned in the CF calendar. But when there is the necessary when it's necessary to have additional meetings, I will also invite for those meetings to get to make faster progress. And we would like to set up and operate the white papers like group is for the security white paper. We will discuss this in the next weeks and we'll give you an information when the second. But we also might want to think about operators outside of the community as well. And that's what almost said before. There could be operators without communities and I think as a since the project we should be aware of this. Just as an example, like, like safe engine also Terraform could follow the operator pattern. But we will discuss this. In the last talk with you and we also, we also thinking on doing a survey about operators. So we want to know which problems and use and practitioners are facing so we could answer probably answer them. And also, I think it's interesting for the, for the target audience, which frameworks are used. So last but not least we want to make progress and we want to get the use, use for document for any users and practitioners. So, so how to contribute. And there's the link for the doc you can open you can read you can comment with value comments for any kinds. If you want to add something, of course, you can add it. If you want, if you think the wording that is currently in the docs is something that is not clear, please, or comment or comment or submit a fix. And if you're not feeling confident enough to contribute. If you don't feel like that and contribute. You're also welcome to join our bi weekly meetings, or send the feedback straight to Thomas or for me. And the feedback is very important for us, as we try to get consensus around this topic before we go back and present the final draft. But not least, everyone is not who is not very confident. Writing operators or knowing what an operator is.  So, exactly this feedback is very valuable for us. So, this was the state from our working group. I hope you enjoyed it and was short enough. And yes, if you have questions, please feel free to ask. Thank you. I think we discussed this before so this has been a long time in the making or better. Thank you for making so it's good that they've been making now actually progress on this great that you're involving the other operator project and also it's a security I think that's that's really good that we have widened the audience there and I should have the project or I really covered in there also the clear focus on target audience, I think is helpful. And again, yeah, I think it's also good that people contribute to think but we just should avoid to say that okay let's start all over again because that isn't really helpful so I think this is moving in the right direction if you have, especially if you have the project, somebody from the project in there from the individuals, we can sort of also the projects working on operation related work will feel well represented by the white paper and also that you talk to the security folks how they built their white paper and cope it. It's great that also that we have offline collaboration obviously same as Thomas being from Europe we highly value offline collaboration rather than 2am in the morning. Europe type of collaboration I also know that some people can try to meet things as well, opposite you to other commitments so that's important as well but good to see this moving forward. It would be great if you could have the draft that you said by the end of the year before the holiday seasons maybe ready for next meeting would be one more before holiday season that would be amazing because then people can connect before. So usually after new holiday season things get get get dragged along and especially this year everybody will deserve to have some relaxation time but that's good. Good to see that progress and yeah thanks also for stepping up here. Thanks for. The next one is flux who wants to be for a flux senior. So we have a presentation is it appropriate to run through that. It'll take about 10 minutes I think. Yeah, that's fine. Then the recordings will also be shared afterwards even for people cannot join it though. Cool. All right, so I'll try the share screen. Someone give me a thumbs up. That's what they expect to see okay great. So, flux has entered a proposal to move from sandbox to incubation and CNCF. We've been referred to SIG app delivery which seems appropriate and so this presentation is really about making a gentle case. For you all to endorse this move ultimately.  And then I'll try and press my suit for for making a move into incubation. Flux if you're not familiar with it is a fits into a continuous delivery category of software so it's the idea is that you keep all your configuration in get and flux sinks that into a Kubernetes cluster. So this means that changing your configuration and your operations can be done through get operations pull requests and so on and this became known as GitOps for a while flux and GitOps were sort of synonymous but then GitOps sort of took on a life of its own and since then there've been other projects which have been called GitOps and flux is in currently in the CNCS sandbox. We bit of history so flux was about three years in and up to version 1.13 when it entered the sandbox which was a bit over a year ago. And once the end of last year around the same time we're entering the sandbox. We were talking to the Argo team, I see Alex is here. Since I go is also a very strongly GitOps oriented project, well I go CD is. And we thought maybe we could merge efforts. I would say that didn't work out. So in the start of this year. We did some experimental work to in the direction of what became known as flux V2, which I'll say a bit more about in a second. And as we're nearing the end of this year we are getting towards the point where flux V2 has got feature parity with flux V1 IE. It can do all the same things, although not necessarily in the same way because otherwise what would be the point. So by way of comparison flux V1. It syncs a Git repository into the local cluster, and it does some automation with regard to updating YAMLs in Git IE making commits on your behalf when things happen. Flux V2 is built from scratch. And uses things like the custom resources so that it is more sort of integrated with Kubernetes specifically. In doing so it syncs arbitrary numbers of Git repositories to local or remote clusters, and it does the automation thing as well. So it's a lot more flexible and part of the flexibility comes from being based on what we call GitOps toolkit which is just a sense of control is that you can mix and match. Whereas you can add your own things in there if you want to do things that are not covered by flux. And you can hook it into other systems like Igo workflow and Tecton. If you want to accomplish things that are sort of outside the scope of that you can do with just writing code. So this is this illustrates that transition flux V1 work. This is 2020 so flux V1 work is green and dark purple. So to start that was pretty much all that was happening and then GitOps toolkit and flux V2 is yellow and all the other colors more or less. And you can see there's sort of transition from mostly working on flux V1 to working more on flux V2 without giving up V1 entirely. All right, so that's kind of where flux came from and where it's heading. So let's look at incubation. So these are the criteria as set out by the TOC. And I've just picked out and bold the things that are relevant here so the project must be you successfully in production by at least three independent end users have a healthy number of committees and substantial ongoing flow of commits and contributions and clear versioning and I think that last one is a stand in for having sort of process around releases and some idea of there being you know backward compatibility and so on. So, since we've been in sandbox where a lot of things have happened has been quite growth phase for flux. And the headline with respect to production users is that flux was alongside helmet the adopt sector of the CNCF technology radar for continuous delivery so in CNCS own words that means that it was widely adopted and fewer or none of the respondents recommended against using it. The respondents in this case are the end user community of the CNCS so that's quite an endorsement I think. The people that fronted up and put themselves in, you know, read me as production users tripled more or less or just about tripled. We've worked at a bunch of case studies with various companies and some of the people from those companies like Steve Wade from metal have sort of become unofficial ambassadors for flux and get ups as well, which is great to see. And all the other sorts of indicators have gone up by similar factors in the community or with respect to the developers. Historically I've had mainly we've works people, the maintainers because it was originally a we've works project. But now half the core maintainers are from outside we've works, which is fantastic. In part, that's because we have, well, in the same vein with formalized governance to make it, well first of all to have written down but also to make it much more focused on consensus and trying to encourage contributions. And we have weekly meetings that alternate between sort of Europe friendly time zone and America's friendly time zones. And we were relaunched websites and added a blog and we have a team of people that are specifically trying to manage community and sort of social media and so on those channels. Other stuff that's happening very quickly. So we have a window where once we reach feature parity with flux me to want to support flux me one users for six months, at least so that they can migrate to flux me to so that's they already have a chance to do that. But we want to have an official set of windows that there is a good period of time for people to be able to do that. There's also a proposal to move flagger, which is another continuous delivery project into flux project, which is nice to see. And there's been some events which are specifically about get ups, get up stays which was run by we've works. There's been a US version of that and Europe version of that.  And there's a get ups working group which I think that's actually on the agenda for later, or at least something approaching it is. So going back to the incubation criteria. Fluxes use successfully in production. We've got about 77 about 77 about 80 people that in a read me that have volunteered themselves as production users to pick out a few control plane IBM and recruiting. But also remember the technology radar where flux was in the adopt category which I think I will repeat in fact I think that's quite an endorsement from the end user community of the CNCF. We have a healthy number of committees. We have the committers from outside we've works, although it was a historically we've works project. And there's about 13, I think 13 at last count, people who are a maintainer of one or more of the sub project. There's a substantial ongoing flow of commits this is subjective and it's called out to such in the criteria but there's on the order of 10s of PRs, the week that get entered posted and merged. Often from first time contribute contributors and non maintainers and clear versioning scheme yeah well. We were at 1.13 when we entered the sandbox now we're approaching 2.0 and we use Senva so we're quite concerned with backward compatibility and so on. So, actually firstly, thank you very much for making room for us in the agenda. And now I'll go back to questions. So, when do you think that that it will be a flux to already released or is it pre release still. Maybe beta level so it's not at a 1.0 or I guess it would be 2.0 still sort of going through the zero point minor versions. We're pretty close to feature parity across the board with flux the one so I think in the first bit of next year, that's when we'll start thinking about. A GA general availability. It's worth noting that we actually there are users of flux be to already in production. So, even before reaching feature parity and and removing the beta label we do have people that are using this and in anger. I mean, it's just a, a general question so by what would be for the ideal time because you're switching over to the new version which is currently not released. Yeah, but really in version four, we two might be, I mean, the religions process and it happens overnight obviously anyway so that's why I was asking. There might be time on the end user examples that you brought up or the user examples. You can obviously list also other commercial software vendors in there I know that you have end users I recommend using end users, because you know, if you're talking about flux dates and users there's obviously some examples were then it's up to the two seats to decide whether they accept somebody as end users it just makes the process easier if you're not listing other companies that those commercial software solutions on top of flux as as the ones for the due diligence. Cloud and maybe falls in that category. Yeah, I've been before in the category. You have those. I'm just making the point that it might be that that is easier for that process usually. Yeah, and obviously if you have some on version two. That's obviously helpful. I think I mentioned before. So having them on retool is definitely helpful, because that's the latest version is that it was bigger cut in there. Yeah, on that version around flag or I think it would be a separate discussion on how you think of this is how this is going to work and how this fits together there. And it's also for for us from the from the due diligence point of view we have to think of how we're going to evaluate this. This is obviously happening more than projects that kind of merging together and getting chosen to each other and we had this situation in the past. It from and from a due diligence perspective it just complicates things, sometimes a bit but not necessarily too much. I would like to learn more. I also have to admit that we also want to as part of this process also want to have a closer look at the two. But we didn't say it's not two projects or essentially then three. Do you see github's toolkit as a separate project. Not really. It really goes hand in hand with flux be to flux be to maybe more like the user interface. And with the component pieces being github's toolkit. I really just wanted to make the point that there is an effort to give room for integrations. Yeah, and what I'll definitely do again as I mentioned, I'm thinking that you see because like we just want to follow the official procedure. We don't want to slow things down but still keep the, keep the proper flow of things here. Yeah, thanks for the update I'm opening up to questions from the wider audience here. Thanks. There are no further questions this topic we have one more left that I think a lot of people are waiting for. I'm sorry, I was, I was pausing for, for other people to ask questions so as a point of kind of protocol for moving forward here. I think what we're looking for is the app delivery sig to say yes let's enter the due diligence phase. Correct. That's the next kind of point procedure. And usually that that's what the part of procedure is that you see tells app delivery have a look at this and started due diligence process and let us know when you're done. And so have we gotten that has a to cease. No, but that that's why I brought it up yesterday and but I can follow up also with our to see is on to to move this forward. And it's just a formality but I don't want to start doing things that that's within the responsibility of the to see. Or check whether there are any opinions from the to see that we have to take care of first but as we are talking about this right now and as we're getting off this call. I'm talking to Michelle who's our to see liaison to help us push this, push this forward. And I was a product yesterday and so that you see call. So the TOC will say yes please, please go ahead and do the due diligence and then the app delivery sig will do that due diligence. Yes, and they might also decide that they also want to have a due diligence by another working group for example securities is very often offers one that they want to have a look at things as well. But we'll stay in touch with you I think Michael and Cornelia you will be the primary points of context if you need anything we'll just reach out to you. Sounds great. Because usually we also take also on the case point of view. It's really some time to dive into this like even trying out solutions working with them, playing around asking questions. And moving things forward but don't expect is like, I think now it used to be and maybe a bit more painful like this process in the past but now to be standardized more of the due diligence work. I think it should go smoothly. I just want to ensure that we're not starting something off that the TOC wants to have first opinion on that's the only thing. Okay, next topic is, I think it was brought up by my mispronouncing. Yeah, sorry my mispronounce your names. No worries go ahead and try.  Yeah, just just make it easy for you should be okay. So that's the whole topic around the employee might also have at some corner. Obviously there was the, it's about the github's working group that you announced during cube cube con in that conversation also with with Alexis and others. So I started that first chart the document I think it still needs some more content there there were also some comments already on there so like more semantics but still important about this. This topic around like calling it a manifest or calling it something else. Just, there is a lot of interest in this. I think you also submitted the github's working group as a sandbox proposal as well. But I'll give you a chance to just introduce it to the app delivery as a whole. And then obviously ask others who have already questions to ask those questions. Yeah, I mean just just to be clear I didn't propose it but I just wanted to bring up the discussion so if Michael and others would want to chip in with details that'll be awesome. So I think I'm sure big. I'm from red hat, but then I'm basically talking as part of the Argo community I'm an Argo contributor, and I have some of my friends in the community in this meeting as well. And I think I wanted to bring up this topic today to kind of mentioned that fear very excited that there is a work group that has been proposed and I would love to know more about it. And what I've read online. It's a great move I think this does give us a chance to actually serve different customers and cube and cube users around the world around github's practices. My only comment on that would be that it would be great if we could make it a little more who vendor neutral and a little more technology neutral if possible. Which means there are other CNCF projects also that like our CD, which is pretty popular out there which is to ensure that we drive this from more from a practices perspective than a very specific technology perspective. So I just want to bring the topic up I let other folks chip in if needed Alex Mukulika John in the other community if somebody wants to add something. Sure, I think you've covered it pretty well. Yeah. And so I would love to jump in right away and I will say 100% that we are completely with you on the neutrality. Our goal here is not to make this a technology specification, or anything like that, very specific, you know, like that it's, we just talked about flux that it's flux and nothing else. This is really about addressing the set of concepts, get ops is a set of concepts. And it is really about serving the end user community. As I like to joke around that get ops is the center square on the buzzword bingo card right now. Everybody is talking about get ops and everybody is claiming get ops support or get ops capabilities. And we don't believe that, you know, taking legacy approaches and calling them get ops is going to serve the end user and the consumer very well. And so this is all about serving the end consumer and helping the community understand that when it comes to doing modern cloud native operations, we want to embrace certain patterns, like, fully embrace the reconciliation loop that is so central to the Kubernetes. Now this isn't specific to Kubernetes back to the point of technology neutral and vendor neutral. Even though Michael earlier talked about the fact that flux v2 is from an implementation perspective more Kubernetes, but what we want to do with the get ops working group is really talk about the concepts. We want to talk about the fact that it's not just the runtime reconciliation loops but that having a reconciliation loop around delivery that enables us to do things like drift detection and things like that. Those are the concepts that we're aiming for. So I completely, you know, being one of the organizations and for those of you don't know me see Cornelia Davis CT out we've worked being one of the organizations that kind of brought this to the working the app delivery say again and came out with this this concept. We, all of us are myself, you know, we works as well as the other organizations are really looking at this being a conceptual thing and serving the end user community. It's not a vendor. It's not a ISP play. Sure. Thank you. 100%. I will say, so I'm sorry, I promise I'll zip up in just a moment. When when Eloise sent out the note and said here's the Google Doc, you know, register your interest. I was just so overwhelmed and delighted with the number of folks and to hear you say it with the emphasis that you did that you're so excited about this. We thought that would be there and I think it was made even more than we anticipated so thrilled with the interest. Thank you. Thanks, Cornelia. So going forward, will this be a work group under absolute delivery. App delivery. That's the expectation. Okay. That's my expectation. Yeah, we're pretty flexible on the work group. I think we just chart the document still needs some work and we need to do some housekeeping that was also brought up yesterday in the TVC call. Because you wanted to announce it during KubeCon we were okay let's keep it under currently deflux city org. I brought this up to the TV for him. They are okay that it takes some time to move it out of the web. I think this this would just make it definitely more neutral. So if you've already talked to to the CNCS if you need any help there. Please let us know. I mean technically you can create a separate org and just invites the CNCS does the most projects do that they have full control over them so that would be easy. Easy to do. I think it's also crucial if you think about the governance model, especially as it comes from flux and we want to have it open but there's like other projects are interested in this. And make also like working on the on the tractor topics and moving the things forward. This is Paul Mori from Red Hat. I know a couple of you already. I wanted to just suggest that since there's an intention to make it vendor neutral. I can take a little while to get like GitHub repos moved around and stuff like that. I think it would just be worth putting something maybe a couple lines in the read me Cornelia to articulate what you just said around neutrality. I took a look at the repo the other day and and sort of had some questions about that so I think that would go a long way. Thank you. Okay. Thank you for that feedback will do. I think it can be done done done easily and I'm happy to support on this. If needed, he created a separate org have to check in with the Lexus where this is but I know from like meeting project from the CNC efforts usually goes easy or sometimes a bit different. But that I think would definitely be helpful and also with the collaboration on the on the charter. I think I'd recommend maybe some of the charter orders that will come. Can comment on it as well. As you read it obviously has a message interest here so Hey this Josh Berkens from SIG contributor strategy. The working groups can either be independent of SIGs within the CNCF, or they can be under SIGs. It would make sense given the nature of this one for it to be under app delivery there isn't a clear reason why it would need to be sort of shared between multiple SIGs unless I'm missing something. In which case it's actually fairly easy to SIG app delivery have its own repo at this point. Yes, we do. It would be to just give the get ups working group part of that repo. Or if there's some reason for it to have a separate repo, then just email the CNCF staff and ask for that and explain who's going to administer the repo. Yeah, so I'd love to, I like the way that you characterize that and I do want to pose a question I'd love, especially since we have so many active participants today to get some other thoughts on this. The get ups is something that we often talk about it from the perspective of applying the get ups model to app delivery. But the get ups model is actually far more generalizable than that. It's not necessarily just for app delivery. It could be for literally anything. So I'll give you an example. We run weed cloud at Weedworks. We run weed cloud on AWS. And one of the things that we're putting in place, one of the things that Amazon recommends if you're running on Amazon and we do run on Amazon is that you have a learning setup for your S3 buckets so that if the permissions are inadvertently or intentionally set to public, you have to have an alert so that somebody, it doesn't happen inadvertently. So there is an example of where a get ups pattern works really well is that you can specify, this is the way I want my permission set on S3. And it's constantly watching that. And you've specified that in a get repository somewhere and you've got some reconciler that is watching those permissions. So here's a case where it isn't so much about the app delivery but it's around configuration, operational configuration of some other system. And so I haven't been super worried about whether we do this under app delivery because I think it's a reasonable home and it gives us kind of a starting point. But get ups itself is not constrained to just application delivery. So thoughts. Everybody is using get ups for clusters reconciliation. They have started using get ups for lambdas. They've started using get ups for AWS resources. I also agree. I think since so many vendors and companies are interested, it felt like app delivery sake is more neutral home. And, but any other suggestion is fine. Yeah, yeah, 100% agree. I'm not I don't object to it but I just wanted to bring it up in this, because it's so so much broader than that. I share that feelings from the operator working group. So it's kind of the same we started with the conversation around Kubernetes and then understand that it might be broader outside and for and be applied. I think that is not a necessary Kubernetes or not necessarily operating things are inside Kubernetes. And I think that's something that we will in SIG up delivery will feel more and more that things are starting from the application perspective, but going broader and also infrastructure and configuration. So I think that today's what I think that what since you can offer is obviously this in independent and as multiple vendors are interested. Working groups have kind of an interesting history Josh correct me if I'm wrong but if you look at some of the CF documents. They are still stated as like being sponsored by TSE member then moved into the six. There's a lot of documentation out there how they actually work so seek at delivery is is open to is obviously open to supporting this as well as a way to try the documents with a lot of people there we can help you. Setting up meetings and so forth you can also help you with organizational issues like if you need a dedicated repo. You can move out of the flux repo because it just creates a lot of questions, or like an imbalance that some people don't feel comfortable with, which I think is fair. And then we should ensure that we have to put in the table has to participation of this. There I think the key is a charter document and also these exist currently in multiple places I think some cleanup work needs to be done. And I think what's kind of confusing is a submission as a project and as a working group at the same time, which is some others like if you look at serverless they have a repo they are kind of a specification project. So kind of like a working group. I think the key question is do you see this as something that will go through that process of a typical CNCS project where it's like right now it's sandbox. Then we move it to incubation and then we move it to graduation, or is it really the collaboration around the concept and delivering things that's much closer to work that a working group usually will do. I'd say let me point out that serverless isn't a project. The thing that's specifically a project is the serverless workflow specification. Which is different from the serverless working group. In other words, the serverless working group that has a project about one aspect of serverless technology where they want to specification. And I could see this get ops working group eventually having that right. You could have like the get ops working group and then at some point they could decide that they really need get reconciliation loop specification, which would then be a project. I mean, certainly some of the goals that that I personally and I think some several of us have in mind is that we want to within that the working group we want to do things like document a lot of use cases so that we can help our user community understand where this is applicable. We want to maybe establish a set of patterns. And all of those things I think are more around the helping users get started than they are a specification, whether there's eventually a specification. I think it's too early to tell I can't think off the top of my head of something that is so strict that I would call it a specification. I want to talk about the term manifesto and there are some, you know, very valid concerns with using that term from from kind of a diversity and inclusion perspective. But I like the concept of you know the agile manifesto did quite a bit to help the community understand that taking your waterfall process and breaking it down into two week increments against your waterfall process wasn't the same as real agile. It's really more along those lines of helping people kind of shift their understanding to the, these new models. And so I don't know if there's going to be a specification at the moment I don't see anything off the top of my head. Yeah, maybe that's, and we have some discussion points around the working group. Try to get some more clarification in the next weeks because we're already on top of the hour here. And then adjourn in two weeks from now where we have hopefully more more clarification. Okay, those topics. The good thing is, we have the charter document where a lot of people to clear interest, and I think it would be good to find a way to keep these people in the loop. You have like credit quite a lot of interest, which is good. And I think getting them on the first call is definitely helpful if we need a meeting. That's usually something that CSF can help as well like scheduling a meeting. The CSF clinic gets fuller and fuller though. I think it's definitely doable. If we need one there. Right, I think as a next step we need to figure out how to have this group engage etc etc. So, yeah. We'll definitely want some kind of a regular cadence in terms of working group meetings and then we have a lot of work to do to set up the scaffolding. I think is the next step. Okay, yeah, that's sweet. Let's continue this discussion two weeks from now. It's good that you pushed forward and moved things and I think it's normal then when you start things off fresh and you want to move fast. You have to do some of the cleaner work later on which is what we find. Yep, just to be sure that everybody feels comfortable with the direction we're moving in. The good thing is there is excitement. And let's work on this and put it on the agenda for next time as well. Let's put that and move by then. Sure. Thank you. All right, I think that we are done for today we are usually with scale for 45 minutes but most of the time we saw the entire hour was good to see everyone again after cube calm. And Thanksgiving. Let's talk again in two weeks. And that's a nice day by. So, I always I have a very off topic question for you. Is that a real background behind you, or is that is a real background behind me. Yes.  That's not fake. That's what I, that's not safe that's actually other work yet. Yeah, no that is gorgeous I've been looking at that art the whole hour and it's beautiful so I don't know why you've been hiding that with your your backgrounds because it's no it was just the other way around but was sitting the other way around I changed my this is actually a photo that I took so this is not just bought artwork this is a photo that I took in Thailand. That's fabulous. That is fabulous. So I might start selling my photographs. There you go. Yeah, new, new, new source of income. Yep. Business, I think. Yeah, yes, it is a lot of competition. Thank you everyone. Thanks. Thank you.