Hello, hey Chris, are we in either app? Hello, it's Alexus here, can anyone hear me? I can hear you. Great, thanks Erin. You're welcome. Congratulations on being, I think it was the first female technologist to do a keynote at the Red Hat Summit. That is correct, thank you. And luckily it worked. You don't want to be the first and have your demo bombed. Right, okay so I don't see Chris, who normally kicks us off, so I'm just going to start in about one or two minutes. Chris said they hear the reboot Chrome. Himself or his computer?  Okay aren't they becoming more one of the same these days anyway? Personally, I think that's true. Hello, hello. Hello. Hey Alexus, good to hear you. Hey man, you ready? Hey Alexus. Hey there, I wouldn't say we've been waiting for you Chris, we haven't quite been waiting for you, but if you- Five minute warning, what's going on? It's good, it's good, it's good, it's fine. Take your time. Make sure those peripherals are connected. So Brian Cantrell, Brian Granton. Doesn't appear to me. He's commented on a Google Doc so it looks like he should be online, but we'll give him a couple more minutes. Quinton can't make it because he's in China. Is Ken, Brian or Sam on the line? Hey Chris, Ken too. Okay, good to hear from you, you're on the phone. Cool, thanks. And I just see Brian Grant came on, so beautiful. All right, we've got Quorum, it's five minutes past.  We've got a pack schedule, so. Thanks Chris, I'll try and be quick. I just want to say a few things. First of all, I think KubeCon was really marvelous, well done, Dan and Chris, and the whole team. Thank you very much. It was an amazing venue, really quite pleasant place to be with nearly 5,000 other people, much less stressful than Austin. Secondly, I know it's not on the agenda, but just to remind people that we're pretty close to finishing a cloud native definition. If you want to be part of that process, we're nearly over the line with a document. If you can't find the link, just email me. And one more thing before we go into the main slides, an appeal to any project owners. We're still looking for opportunities to hear from project owners, open source projects or close observers about areas where you think the CNTF can help you, the TOC especially, because this is a TOC call. If you have specific asks, send me, Dan and Chris. We really, really want to help you as much as we can. So now we're going to go straight into the slides, number six. Chris, can you just run us quickly through your highlights of KubeCon, please? Yeah, I mean, as you're aware, this is our largest KubeCon yet.  From a TOC perspective, Quintin has kind of rebooted the storage working group and is now the lead and sponsor of that. We'll hear from him the next TOC call of kind of how that's going. They've started the work on a white paper, which is great news. And there's a variety of product-related launches. The cloud events team should point 1-0. There's a variety of operators launch from all over. So it was too much to list. I just basically tried to prune what was best from the mail thread on the TOC list that I linked off there. More importantly, on slide seven, we're just looking for feedback from the community. We have two big events coming up in the air. We got Shanghai and then Seattle. So anyway, we kind of make these events better for you and the community. Please let us know. And I'd love to kind of take some time, maybe a few minutes on this call to hear from folks if they have ideas on how to improve things. We've been writing stuff down over the last week from people who have reached out to me. So consider this time to make some suggestions for our next conference. Yeah. Send them by email. Send them on the chat window if you prefer, or just shout out now if you've got anything urgent to say. I also want to just pick out from the highlights on slide six, the launch of several implementations of a cloud events implementation by, I believe, Azure and IBM, which is an unexpected dividend from the serverless working groups efforts to do some work there earlier in the process. So well done, guys. Thank you very much. Anyone want to shout out any major comments on Cloud NativeCon and KubeCon other than it's a very stupidly long name for a conference? Yeah. I mean, I've heard the intro and deep dive sessions were super appreciated by our projects, but give us ideas. We have time now, so please send them our way. One thing I heard a lot of that might be worth people thinking about is that with the growth of Kubernetes and the other projects in KubeCon, we're starting to speak more to end users, and it's starting to feel a lot more like a normal commercial software conference, which in some ways is amazing, but on the other hand can lead to sort of the loss of the original sort of developer community vibe. It would be great for people to suggest ways that the conference or other conferences could continue to sustain a developer-to-developer interaction as opposed to a user-to-user or developer-to-user interaction. I think that this is important. Otherwise, it will turn into a different kind of conference altogether, which would be a shame. All right. Let's move on to the slide number 8, the working group process. Several people have come in. Hey, Alexis. I was muted there. Yeah. Could I just jump in and say that I agree that the developer is a key strength in that we really do want to avoid that it just be vendors talking to each other, as a repetition from some other conferences, or just business pitches. I think the biggest strength that we have going for us is the co-chairs that they come from the community and that they pick a program committee from the community. That's an independent rating of these talks. And so it's not Chris or myself or the board or anyone else that's actually selecting the talks. It's a relatively neutral processor, as much as these things can be. And so I do just want to mention that the CFP for both Shanghai and Seattle, and they'll be integrated together so that you can pick one or the other or both, is going to open on May 21st. So we would love to have people begin thinking about the topics they want to be talking about this winter. Okay. That's all. Thank you. So slide 8. This is about working groups in general, which covers a number of different issues. Just to be clear, a lot of people have said, and I myself feel strongly that the working groups were created to fill a need, but now that we've got a couple of them underway, we're starting to have requests for greater clarity around their shape. And I think it's very important that each working group has a clear mission and exit criteria. The working group process that Chris is chairing here is supposed to formalize that. So the output of this will be a written document with guidelines for creating a working group, shutting one down, and making sure that people work on it, having a clear mission. And we've already had people contribute. Chris, is there anything else we need to say about this? Sure. Just final call to any feedback on this. Matt Farina and another community members have given feedback. So I'm going to crystallize that into an updated draft soon. So check the pull request, but please get the feedback and by the end of this week, I'd like to finalize this soonish because we have a couple of working groups that want to be proposed and it would be great to kind of have them go through this new process. Thank you. So I raised the issue of the birds of the feather groups and the suggestion that came back was to use the work group. But the difference I see is that the birds of the feather groups would not have specific exit criteria. So does the establishment of things like exit criteria change anyone's mind on whether we need a different kind of group? I think the most important thing is that expectations are always clear. I personally don't have a strong preference either way for different types of groups, so long as people know what they're doing, otherwise they drift. Yeah, I think exit criteria could be refined over time too. So I think we see the serverless working group doing this and I think they're going to talk about this later today. Okay. Yep, that's it from that. Thank you. So slide nine, project proposals. We are building up quite the log jam here now around new projects coming up. I'm happy to see that a lot of these are sandbox projects. Just good. We'll probably spend less time on those and really drill into the incubation ones and try to have a high standard for incubation. Remember that if you get into the sandbox, you don't get all the press and marketing. It's just basically an experimental. The, Alexis, the final thing for telepresence since we discussed it last week is I believe you and Camille have volunteered to be the TOC sponsors. Was there anyone else before we kind of finalized this because it's an action item from the last TOC meeting? They've submitted a proposal officially too that I linked. I do recall Camille offering to sponsor and I'm happy to sponsor as well having spent quite a bit of time with the team. Cool. That's enough for me to move forward then. Okay. All right. So cloud events and serverless. That's the next section. Is this a presentation? Yeah, this is Doug. This is a status update and as well as a sandbox proposal for cloud events, if that's okay. Go for it. All right. Thank you. So jumping to slide 11 just to refresh everybody's memory and how we got to where we are. Back in March of last year, Ryan Scott Brown kicked off an email discussion about what should the serverless or what should CNCF do relative to serverless, if anything at all. As a result of that discussion, the TOC agreed to form a serverless working group to do some investigation, figure out what if anything should the CNCF do with serverless, what exactly is serverless, what's its relationship to the other as is out there, stuff like that. In November last year, we presented our outputs, which is a white paper defining everything I mentioned there, you know, what is serverless, what is use cases, common architecture, stuff like that. I had included the landscape of the community out there. So projects, tools and services, and we keep a spreadsheet up to date as best we can about what's out there for people to use without saying which are good or bad. It's just sort of a statement, the fact that what's out there. And then most importantly, we had a set of recommendations. What should the CNCF do going forward? Things like education, look for other CNCF, look for other serverless projects to pull under the CNCF umbrella. And in particular, what areas of quote, harmonization should we focus on? With the first one being our recommendation to look at the eventing space. And so that's what the TOC agreed for us to look at back in November. So that started off this whole cloud events working group or a subgroup under the serverless working group. And so we started that work back in December of last year. And then moving on to slide 12, where we are right now. We have weekly phone calls where we get around 30 people joining each call per week. I think that's fairly high. That's a good indication of the popularity. We have 37 different companies who have been involved at one point or another where I would consider 15 regulars. And by regulars, what I mean by that is, if you attended the last three of the last four, I'm sorry, if you attended three of the last four phone calls, then you have voting rights. And that's what I consider a regular person or regular company on the call. And so I think 15 regular companies attending a phone call every week is pretty good. As Chris mentioned, we released 0.1 of the spec back in April. So about a month ago. And just for clarity, unlike other quote, eventing specs that may have been produced in the past, we aren't necessarily trying to define what all events look like. That's been done before we're not trying to do that. What we're trying to do is just define the common metadata or envelope that goes around your data. So if you actually look at that little snippet of JSON in there, you can actually see what we did is in the same way HTTP just defined some common headers or piece of metadata that people can count on being there without having to understand the payload itself. That's what we did here, right? We defined some common attributes to help the infrastructure routes the message more than anything else. But then the data itself, the last property in there is where the event data itself goes, and we don't even touch that. It's just a blob, basically. And so we're staying out of that business. We're here just to help the infrastructure get its job done for the most part. So along with the envelope, we've defined an HTTP mapping as well as a JSON mapping. And we do have others that are in the works. And the next thing we're looking at in the future is, okay, once we, you know, now that we have this sort of not necessarily behind us, but we feel like it's along the process, it's all on a pipeline well enough that we can actually start thinking about what comes next. And so we are looking at what next project we want to work on in this quote, harmonization area. And so we're having some discussions this week about different things we're considering, things like function signatures, can we get some harmonization around orchestration of function and stuff like that. Having decided yet, still up in the air, but that's what we're going to be looking at next in terms of, you know, next things to look at. Site 13, some of the highlights in terms of what we've been doing. As I mentioned, we have a large cross-bender team working on this stuff very, very quickly. I think we made a lot of good progress really, really fast. Like, got lots of credit to the members of the working group because we've had lots of ideas tossed around and everybody seems to really be anxious to come up with a consensus as quickly as possible. And so they work very, very fast. And I congratulate them on that. As was mentioned, we've got lots of good coverage at KubeCon.eu. We had Kelsey mentioning us on the main stage, which is great. We had a serverless working group, I'm sorry, a serverless session by Austin, where he actually showed a demo of, I believe it was 11 different companies involved in producing or consuming cloud events to show interoperability and that this thing is real, which I thought was really great. And it went over very, very well, I think. We had some interviews going on at the cloud events at KubeCon as well. And in terms of milestones, we actually exceeded our expectations. I think we were hoping to just meet our 0.1 milestones by KubeCon. We actually achieved all the way up through most of 0.4 milestones. So we made a lot of good progress really, really quickly. In terms of challenges, these are sort of two different categories here. One is the challenges for us is just agreeing on that basic set of metadata. Obviously, we have a lot of people who are very opinionated in the group and they have lots of things that they want to get included. And so it's been a challenge for some of us to pull back and say, okay, really, what's the minimal set that we need just to get our job done without trying to boil the ocean? And it's been a challenge for some of us, but I think we've come through for the most part. But we're not done yet, though. The other challenge is more for our user's perspective in terms of they need to understand that we're not doing what people have done in the past, which is defining a common event format for all events. It's just the metadata to help the infrastructure get its job done. So people are still going to be expected to write the code to process the event itself and whatever data format it comes in. So people need to understand what our goal is here, and we're not trying to boil the ocean. So slide 14 is for the next steps. Obviously, we're trying to get to 1.0 as quickly as possible. And we want to increase the number of vendors who are using it in production. I think right now we only have one who is officially announced official support, I think that might be Azure. But as you can see from the list here, other people that are have it in their open source project or will soon. And of course, we also want to propose cloud events to be a to be a CNCF sandbox project, which I'll get into next in all that slide. So we do actually have a proposal out there. There's the link is on the previous slide slide 14. A lot of the stuff I mentioned there in terms of status and stuff like that is already in that pull request, but a couple of things I wanted to mention that I didn't talk about already. We are working under the Apache Version 2 license. The governance model we're following is very much consensus driven, where we just try to get to, as I said, to consensus as best we can, come to agreement, get everybody on board. But if something happens and we can't actually come to agreement, we do have a process in place for how to resolve that and basically comes down to a vote. And that goes back to that those voting rights that I talked about earlier, where if you are from a company and you've been there for the last three or three, four of the last four phone calls, then you get a vote. Luckily, I think we've only had one vote the entire time and it was something kind of silly. It was, is it going to be cloud events.io, cloud events.org or dot com. That was it. At all technical decisions, we've been able to come to a consensus on stuff. So that's been really, really great. We have another group that broke the voting rules. We have your standard things, mailing lists, slack channels, as I mentioned, weekly Zoom calls, issues in PRs are all tracked in the GitHub repo. Why should we, you know, join the CNCF or be a formal project under there? Obviously, because we were founded from the CNCF, all of our members already share the goals of the CNCF, meaning cloud-native promotion, providing choice for the consumers, interoperability, and portability of infrastructure or of your code. From our point of view, or at least from my point of view, I think we need to be under CNCF mainly for what we get out of CNCF, meaning from the members of the CNCF. We want this thing to be as successful as possible. And so we need a broad base of people to look at our work, evaluate our work, and use our work. And the CNCF, in my opinion, provides the best opportunity for that, because of the wide range of people, not just the vendors, but the user base, the consumers, all the various people who actually we have access to to help get their feedback on the spec, because we want this thing to be as successful as possible and be as widely used as possible. And most importantly, to make sure it doesn't become vendor-specific anyway, even though we have lots of participation from other companies, we need the verification that people actually can use this as many spots as possible. So with that, I know everyone kind of quickly, but I didn't want to eat up the entire time, because I know we have other projects we want to talk. Are there any questions or comments? I have a question. So am I right in thinking that cloud events is an implementation, which is something that could therefore be supported by, for example, OpenWisk, correct? So cloud events is just a specification, not an implementation. It's just to find the metadata of, if you go back to slide 12, it just shows the metadata and decides how that metadata looks on the wire. We do have many implementations out there. So for example, as you mentioned, OpenWisk does support this as well as all the other projects that are mentioned on slide 13. If you look at the speakers section, you can see all the various companies that do support it. So what's the situation with Amazon Lambda and OpenFaaS and the serverless open source project, which are all very popular and have different purposes and roles and implementations? I believe they were involved in some of the conversation around serverless working group. You anticipate that they would be interested in this, or is this something that's separate from them? Also, Pivotal Rift is another example. Yeah. So all the companies that you mentioned there, with the exception of Amazon, regularly join the phone call. So that's an indication that they do see value and interest in going forward with this. Amazon in the past has joined our phone calls. They've dropped off since then, and we do have some people with action items to go off and figure out why. Is it because they don't see value in it? Is it because they're busy? We just don't know. And so we do have some people putting out some feelers to get that information. But everybody else that you mentioned is definitely part of the working group on a regular basis. And I believe almost all those people, actually, I'm sorry, except for OpenFaaS, I believe all those other people were involved in the demo. So they're putting their coding effort behind this as well. Actually, OpenFaaS was running under the hood of dispatch. Oh, cool. I didn't realize that. Okay, there you go. Maybe another point, Doug, it's your own. You can actually take AWS Lambda and create a very thin shim that will translate it to OpenEvent. So even if the Cloud provider doesn't provide the native implementation, it still has room for providing it raw. Yes, thank you. But to answer the question that Alexis is posing, with respect to a lot of the phases, the CloudEvent can be passed straight on through as event data, and then it's up to the function to be able to deal with it. There are other implementations such as the event gateway or dispatch where I believe we're both using CloudEvents as a common substrate to be able to use that as a middleware routing function to be able to transit the event to the actual consumer. And so there's different producers, middleware and consumers occurring that will have different operations on the event data. Did that answer your question, Alexis? I mean, yeah, I just think it is very important that we keep that in sight, that we don't end up with the kind of island of open source projects that people don't use relative to a much more popular kind of mainstream serverless implementation. That's the basis of my concern. And we saw something like this happen with the API discussion on OpenStack a few years ago, you may remember. So I'm just sort of keen to kind of remind people of that, but it sounds like you're aware of the issue. Yep, definitely. And we're doing our best to try to address them or address the concern. Yes. Doug, this is Arun. So let's talk offline, and I'll be happy to kind of come back with positioning from Amazon perspective on CloudEvents. That'd be great. Thank you very much. All right. Any other questions, comments? Yeah, just in terms of process, you know, they will be looking for TSC sponsors. So if there's TSC members on the call that are interested in sponsoring this, please speak up now. Yeah, Chris, I definitely want to see Ken. Yeah, I'm happy to go sponsor that. Okay. Ken and Brian. Well, thank you. Definitely. Very nice. So is it match for Helm? Yes. Hello. Good morning. Welcome. Go for it. So slide 17 is we'll start off. Helm is a project seeking incubation to become a part of the CNCF. It provides package management for Kubernetes. Like most platforms, think of apt for deadening. You don't download MariaDB and then go get your configuration files and then tell it how to start up and go through all of those things.  And then you can depend on that by other applications. So you have your dependencies and it can be well maintained and versioned and other tools can be built on top of it, like Ansible and Chef and things like that, that can leverage this. And that's what Helm brings to Kubernetes. It brings package management for our applications. And it can be used as dependencies and so forth. If you go to slide 18, you'll see that the project we have Helm and we have several what we call sub projects here. This term is borrowed from Kubernetes. There's the Helm package manager, but we have a little bit more than that that we're looking to bring in. We have what we call the community charts, which are packages by the community for people to install. Then we have Monocular, which is a user interface, which can it has two parts. It can be run in cluster and it can be run as a directory to search for things, either privately or it's most known for being the original UI for kubax.com that lets you search through the community charts. And then more recently we have Chart Museum, which provides a repository service, something that you can push charts to and pull them from and interact the same way you can with something like NPM or Docker Hub, although it's meant to be run by many different people, not as a central repository. And so when we talk about Helm, we're talking about all of this, so it's the package manager plus some of the supporting software that we're using today. If you go to slide 19, we can look at a little bit of the history here. So Helm was started over at DEIS and over six months back, this is back in 2015. Over six months it saw lots of rapid development and then it was invited to merge with deployment manager, which was part of Kubernetes at the time. And it merged with deployment manager to become Kubernetes Helm, and that was very early on in January of 2016. And then shortly thereafter, that march is when Kubernetes became a CNCL project. Over time, Helm 2 was finally released, which was the merger of deployment manager and Kubernetes Helm, plus a whole lot of things that were learned over time. And that was released in November 2016. Then over 2017, we saw lots of growth with minor releases and patch releases and lots of growth in usage and things like that that I'll talk about in a minute, and in people contributing. Near the end of 2017, we started to talk about Helm 3. A lot had changed in Kubernetes. There were things such as custom resources that weren't there when Helm 2 was being developed. There were changes in usage patterns and what people wanted. We learned a lot and Helm uses semantic versioning. And so we couldn't change APIs and break backwards to padability, which means to add a bunch of the features and make changes we wanted to do that. It would mean it's time for Helm 3. And so at the end of 2017 is when we started talking about what are we going to do there. And then in early 2018, in February, just a few months ago, we had our first Helm Summit, which was a two-day conference focused solely on Helm. And it was the official kickoff to Helm 3. If you look at side 20, we'll look at the community charts a little bit, because I think this gives a little bit of insight into usage. Back in December of 2015, there were just seven charts. But by the time we launched Helm 2, it had grown to 27 charts. Once we launched, there was a massive take-up in charts. And at KubeCon EU in 2017, which was just four months later, we had 2.5 times growth in charts. And then that growth, it teetered down a little bit to KubeCon US in 2017, where we had 143 community charts. And just the other day, at KubeCon EU, I took the date before that we had 203 community charts. And it's continuing to grow. And the tapering off effect actually isn't interest. It's scalability. And one of the problems we're working on is how do we scale sharing charts? Because right now we have the community repo with lots of people wanting to contribute updates and changes and fixes along with new charts. And we have to change up how we do things in order to scale that growth. That's one of the things we're looking for help on and we're already getting into right now. If you go to slide 21, we can see a little bit of the community contributions. Right now there are 11 Helm maintainers. That's for the Helm package manager code base. And they represent five companies. And we've had 328 contributors. For the community charts, there are 11 maintainers from eight companies with over 800 contributors to the charts. In addition to that, Chart Museum and Binocular, some of the other stuff we've touched on, those have additional maintainers who maintain and manage those code bases. As far as it goes, I went in and grabbed from DevStats and some other places, people who've contributed to these projects. And we have a lot of folks here. In fact, the first 12 on here are Platinum members to the CNCF. And many of the others are also CNCF. Members. There's just a lot of people contributing from a lot of organizations right now. On slide 22, we'll get into some of the community statistics. We've been running some statistics over time. And Helm is downloaded by over 59,000 unique IPs per month. We've been able to track that over the last couple of months. Last month it was 59,050. And that doesn't count things like Homebrew or other places folks might install it from such as Ubuntu snaps or something like that. Those are additional. In April, we saw over 11,000 installations using Homebrew. In Slack, we have over 4,000 people in the users and close to a thousand people in Helm Dev. The users are people who use Helm Dev is what we're actually discussing how we're going to develop Helm 2 and Helm 3 and features and things like that. On the community chart side, we're able to track some of the details. And we have over 12 million get requests for individual charts per month. And that's from multiple tools. So folks who use Helm will download them in order to install them. But people like at JFrog and Artifactory will download and use them as well. In fact, when we talked about Chart Museum being a server side thing a moment ago, Chart Museum isn't the only one. The way it works is there's a static implementation built into Helm itself to create a static repository. Chart Museum provides dynamic. It's all specifications. So folks like Artifactory from JFrog are able to do it as well. So Artifactory pulling in lots of these community charts and having ways to use them is ways that actually supports them as well. And in the charts where we discuss developing charts, we have over a thousand people in the Slack group. If you go to slide 23, we have Helm and the Kubernetes app survey. So we did an application. How do people use applications with Kubernetes? We did a survey and we've been pulling data from that. And so from here I grabbed two things that I thought would be useful. One is that 64% of people who shared the tools they were using were using Helm. And it was higher than any other tool that we had out there that was not part of core Kubernetes. And then more than 78% of the people are using third-party software, which is something that can be distributed via Helm and charts. This could be proprietary, the majority of it, 77% as folks using open-source software that can be packaged and shipped and depended on using charts in their applications. But there is a lot more detail that anybody wants to give in the survey. So why the CNCF? Helm is part of Kubernetes today. And so why the CNCF, if it's already part of Kubernetes out of the CNCF, and one of those things is that it has grown and it's grown up. And it's become a rather large community as a sub-community of Kubernetes. And as Kubernetes focuses on core Kubernetes, Helm is now at a place where it can use more to help flourish. And so Brian has offered to be our TOC sponsor. It's Apache 2. It's already been under Kubernetes for quite some time. For governance right now, right now each of the projects has their own sets of maintainers, whether it's Helm or the community charts or Monocular. And when it comes up, it's been coming up to the next level to the Kubernetes SIG apps. In the absence of that, we are looking for some guidance on maybe doing a steering committee and figuring out how do we do that to govern all of it as a whole. But Helm has now grown to the point where we can have our own conferences. We successfully had one just a few months ago and we're looking for help in organizing those things because some of the core maintainers did that and that was a tax kind of looking for help from people who know how to do this far better than we do. Help with governance as we grow the community. We need something like the CNCF to ensure vendor neutrality because we've got so many people from so many competing companies and collaborating companies that having a neutral place for them to come collaborate together in a safe place is one of those things we just know we need. And then there is working with the chart infrastructure and figuring out how to scale that in a way that benefits the whole community. Well, those who have to consume charts, those who want to depend on charts, and those who want to share their applications via charts and make them discoverable. And so this is some of the reasons we're looking for CNCF. And so with that, are there any questions? Hey, one thing I've always wondered about with Helm and came up recently in the Helm 3 conversations is what's the scope of the project? What's the roadmap? I think that's pretty important because one of the concerns that many people have voiced to me in personal conversations is that Helm seems to sort of grow and grow and try and do a lot of different things at once. Ranging from templating to dependency and package management. I worry that if it tries to do all of those things, it will fail and collapse under its own complexity. So what's the thinking around that? So there's two things for it. One, Michelle just dropped a link into chat here that talks about where we're going with Helm 3. That will give you some detail on what we're planning, technically speaking. Helm though, and I'll see if I can share it, Helm is focused on the package management, fortunately. Think of it as akin to homebrew or apt for Kubernetes as far as trying to compete with Ansible and Chef and going up to those higher levels. That's not its purpose. There's recent blog posts that talked about where it was compared to other projects. Just a moment, I'll share that. Because the goal is not to try to take over the world but to try to solve the package management problem and build it in a way that other tools can interact with it. In fact, that's one of the things we hope to do more of with Helm 3 is make it easier for other tools to interact with Helm and be part of the process. And so this post that I just shared will talk about where it fits compared to configuration management and other things, including things like operators. But it's really attempting to be something akin to apt or homebrew for Kubernetes and not more than that. And we're encouraging others to build projects that use it, that want to be more and use that as a component of their service. Does that include templates or not? Yes, templates are part of package management. If you look at how apt and does things, there is a template as part of that. We know some folks want to do more with templating and go beyond, go TPL. We've been exploring other ways of approaching that and right now it's mostly about collecting data. Are people happy with it? If not, what are the issues? What do they want to do? One of the things we ran into in the past was so Helm has the ability to use other engines today that go beyond, go TPL. But we've had trouble getting people to uptake on that part of it. And so we're attempting to bend over backwards to make that easier to use. Or having a hard time having people who want to go and do more than that. And that's one of the things that we're struggling with. So, for example, with caseinet, there was a proof of concept created a while ago by somebody who's not a caseinet user, just to show that it could happen. And we had trouble getting anybody to take that and turn it into more than a proof of concept who was a user. And so while I know people talk about wanting other template engines and there's things you can do today, we're having trouble getting uptake on using other templating things. And yet in order to make a package manager that'll work with Kubernetes, we need a certain level of that templating capabilities. Do things like, if you install MariaDB on Debbie and you use app, it's going to ask you for that group password. We need the ability to pass that in when you spin it up. There's certain things like that we have to do when templates provide us with some of these capabilities. It's, we're continuing to try to make it easier for people to use their own templating engines, but at the same time, we're having a hard time getting everybody to take us up on it. Yeah, Alexis, this is Brian. I think, you know, Helm, by depending on how you slice it does five to 10, provides five to 10 different pieces of functionality, but I don't think it's growing in terms of scope. It's always stayed really close to that original vision of being an operating system package manager that distinguishes it from other types of package managers, like language package managers. But, you know, having that basic functionality of searching and browsing packages, managing dependencies, installing a package, life cycle hooks, things like that is very closely modeled on the OS package managers, and I don't really see it growing beyond that. I do suggest that, you know, now is actually a really good time with the Helm 3 proposal there that was posted in the chat and development starting for people to get involved to help shape that. Helm has grown, as Matt said, quite substantially as it's been kind of incubated within Kubernetes and effectively it has its own distinct community and governance and technical conventions and things like that, and it doesn't really... It's kind of outgrown its home within the Kubernetes project and that's why we're looking to kind of break it out to become a top-level project. I mean, that'll make sense. I'd really love to see really precise statements if possible here on the intended development rails because it just helps other people who are trying to integrate with Helm. It would be nice to understand what is seen as the kind of major technical gotchas in the project, which are other things that the community's happy to live with or would like to improve around atomicity, determinism, and compositionality. I mean, we are very happy using Helm at Weaveworks, but we'd love to know more about what the direction is. So that's all really... It's really a request. And yeah, I love the idea of moving it out of Kubernetes. I think it's definitely grown. Would that also mean that the SIG apps would not be so much the Helm thing, but it would be more of a general group around Kubernetes apps? Yeah, we've shifted in that direction for some time. Helm is a sub-project, but Helm and charts have had their own meetings and their own space. For the most part, the SIG apps meetings have not been Helm focused. It is brought up in conversation, like many of the other projects are. Could you elaborate a little bit on why Helm should be separated from Kubernetes? Because I mean, everything about Helm is Kubernetes-specific, correct? From a technical perspective, there is nothing that is neutral with respect to Helm and Kubernetes. Is that correct? Yes, and I think Brian touched on one of the big points here is that, well, there's maybe two points here. Brian touched on one of them, and that is Helm is culturally growing to be differently. Helm has kind of grown up, and like a child, their personality is a little bit different from the parents. And so Helm has its own personality that's just separate. And it's also- Could you do a little more specific about that? It'll maybe give some examples of how, I guess I wonder if Helm is entirely specific to Kubernetes, does that represent a divergence that potentially is going to operate across purposes with respect to what Helm wants to achieve? Yeah, so Kubernetes is mostly focused on the core Kubernetes project, which is about building container management. And Helm kind of sits above that in operating applications and starting them up inside of Kubernetes. And so the people who build container management system are different from the people who write and manage apps in that system. And we just see cultural differences between them. In the same way we want to use tooling to merge patches, the way we want to use tags, the way meetings and governance work, we see a difference. And where maybe Kubernetes is more ops and dev ops, we see kind of the dev and app side of that being more in the Helm space from a culture standpoint. So Brian touched on a little bit of that. There's things in how we want to use tooling, how we want to do process, that people on different sides of that divide would like to do things a little bit differently and to give them that freedom. And then the other thing, which I think is more important is that Helm is growing up and it's become its own thing in many ways. We can have our own, we had a successful summit. We've got lots of contributors who do nothing with Kubernetes, but they're all around Helm. And we'd like to optimize process and things to help grow that community of app developers and app operators who are using Helm to enable them. And that's a little bit different than the other. And so it's more about giving Helm the opportunity to continue to grow rather than being part of Kubernetes and fitting within its structure. So it can grow naturally the way it wants to. But to be clear, I mean, Helm's growth is limited by the growth of Kubernetes.  Helm is in some respects, and it started out as a fairly small percentage of Kubernetes users. We're using it now as Matt showed, a fairly large percentage of Kubernetes users are using it. So and its growth rate is maybe limited by Kubernetes, but it's to some degree independent. Just to use an example, Cubeless is a functions project. It only runs on Kubernetes, but it's not part of the Kubernetes project. So our basic stance is not every project that is Kubernetes specific belongs under the umbrella of Kubernetes itself. We have to draw boundaries for what's in the core project and what's outside the core project, and Helm actually falls outside of that boundary. Maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that, Brian, because I mean, I guess, so the reason, a couple of reasons why I'm asking. One, I just want to get clarity that Helm has got no aspirations beyond Kubernetes, right? Is that correct? I would say at the time that is correct. Okay. So it is effectively, it is an aspect or a feature of Kubernetes with the caveat that there may be, there are other ways to doing it. From as somewhat of an outsider to Kubernetes itself, looking in, one of the greatest dangers that I see for Kubernetes is the growth of complexity. And one of the concerns that I have, and Brian, obviously I want to hear your thoughts on this, but that if we, clearly, there's value in allowing a separate community to express different values and so on. But I get concerned when there's too much divergence that to those coming up to Kubernetes, it becomes overwhelming with complexity because there seem to be so many different aspects and there's almost too much choice. And if there's going to be, I mean, I guess one question is, is there going to be an alternative to Helm for Kubernetes or not? Because if there isn't, and if Helm is going to be the way that we run apps on Kubernetes, I think I might argue that it should be part of the Kubernetes project. And if it is, if there are going to be other ways of doing it, if Helm is not going to be the only way of doing it, I definitely wonder about the consequences for complexity and complexity out there. Is this a very concern, first of all? Well, I think it's, you know, the complexity has been mentioned and by a number of people, and there have been a number of recent threads about it. I think it's a legitimate concern. Kubernetes effectively is a portable cloud platform, right? So it has about 60 APIs that cover things ranging from running containers to load balancing to authorization policy. And we're growing more and more kinds of policy. In fact, as enterprises want more controls over what things run. So we are trying to bound the scope of the project and take a hard look at what needs to be in the core. Effectively though, you know, we have to draw the boundary somewhere and wherever we draw the boundary, that's going to create some amount of diversity outside of that. With respect to configuration and deployment, I think that that's an area that's always been fairly fragmented and there are a lot of different opinions about how to do things. Some people want to use a pass, some people want to use functions, some people just want CICD, some people want to use something more like a configuration management tool. Like I talked to some customers and they just, they like Ruby and they don't like Python or vice versa. So I don't think there's going to be a one size fits all about this. I have a 25 page document about that. I could post a link in. There are alternatives to Helm today and I think there always will be. You know, Heptio has developed a tool called Case On It which is inspired by some tools developed inside of Google. So I think this is an area that's still developing and people are still experimenting. Hubpack is an example of a project that's just focused on package management and it's inspired by Go, Git-based style dependency management tools. I think that's fairly promising of an approach and it's completely orthogonal to templating or lifecycle management, for example, where there are other interesting projects like operators that are trying to address the application lifecycle management space. So I think this is an area that's still under very active development and I see that as a good thing as opposed to a bad thing. Sure, and then it helps answer the question that you don't view, in the limit, Helm is not going to be the only alternative. You think that there are going to be alternatives to Helm and from your perspective, that's a healthy thing. Yes. Okay. Yeah, but that answers the question. I mean, it does lead me with the complexity concern because I think that there's a very real risk of complexity death. There's just so much and there are so many different dimensions of freedom, but ultimately it's always going to be a balance. But that answers the question. Thanks. Yep. Thanks both, Brian, for that. And thank you very much, Matt, for taking us through the proposal. I think we're done on the bulk of today's meeting. Is there any networking quick update from Ken, I believe, to come when we're done? Great. Hey, Alexis, thanks. So networking update would be pretty quick. And we'll have to kind of a slow start on the networking workgroup this year. We had a couple of good meetings and started to make some progress. And then I think people just got busy and wanted more to make some additional follow-up meetings. And so I definitely need support. Is there anyone on the call today that is part of the networking workgroup? But I would definitely use your support in getting some attendance and driving some discussions in the networking workgroup. There are some decisions that we do want to make in the coming meeting if possible, one of which is going to be which of the networking services that we've identified already that we want to try to tackle and what would that look like with the new workgroup model that Chris and then were putting in place. And then there's a desire to start looking at projects, as you mentioned Alexis earlier, that we could find some example networking projects in this area of the services we're looking at that are needed for cloud-native application deployments. We want to try to reach out to those projects and offering to talk them about what they can do as part of the CNCF. Any questions on that? Anyone? Okay, our next meeting is next week, Tuesday, at the same time as this, which I think is eight o'clock specific time, 10 o'clock central. Great, thank you. Thanks, guys. I think that brings us to an end for today. Chris, anything else that we miss? No, we're all good. So I'll do the vote for home next week. Just leave it open for people. I have a quick question. I'm talking who is it? Sorry, Erin, I had a quick question about Helm. I thought when we kind of switched to the new model, we needed two TOC representatives for, is that just for? It's for sandbox incubation level projects, which Helm require one TOC sponsor in a formal vote where you need two-thirds super-majority plus one from the TOC to get accepted. Okay, and so for sandbox, we wanted two for the cloud events proposal, and I thought only Ken was on that. I didn't see a second sponsor. Believe Brian Grant is the other one, so. Okay, I didn't see it on the proposal. Yep, I'll take a look at it, so don't worry. Okay, thanks, yep. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Erin. Thank you, everybody. I think it's good going. Cool, take care, everyone. Thanks, you too. Take care. Bye. Bye. Thanks, Mike.


Hi, everybody. I'm Joe for jazby's casebreaks.com and we have 2021 chronicles baseball hobby pack coming at you Random team break number two just a quick little hobby pack and at the end with the second dice roll We're giving away eight hit parade baseball spots. It's got to do one more filler and then we're in breaksville on that big Thanks, everybody here for making it happen There are the teams right there. Let's roll it. Let's randomize it six and a four ten times one two three four five six seven eight nine and ten After ten times we got Jason down to Chris. I Don't keep ordering Logan. I don't know what the what what that what the strategy is there, but keep ordering you may find one in there Six and a four ten times for the teams I know dangerous Justin was mentioning that earlier. It's like hey that dangerous guy was right We're gonna give you the orange verified check mark the jazby orange check mark As someone who could be counted on to break news Not everyone can get that verified orange. All right. Here's the first half of the list right here No trade windows in these fillers. We just want to get to the giveaway part as quickly as Possible there's everybody. All right, and let's just print and rip a little alphabetized first and then we'll print There's the hobby pack right there and we got you Chang Is our autograph? Yes, our luminance autograph for the tribe It's Edward with the Indians soon to be guardians Got a magnitude Mike trout. There's Jesus Sanchez Trevor Larnock Fernando Tetease Jr. and a Ryan Mount Castle elite rookie card Great All right, not bad not bad now the whole point of this though is not the break, but who's gonna win those spots? Let's gather everybody's names again Get your names in here new dice Two and a three five times so it's gonna be top eight after five. Good luck one two three Four and once more two and a three five times fifth and final time Top eight after five so from nine on down Edward very close. No cigar Thank you for giving this a shot though. Thanks everybody appreciate it Oh remember we we do have to do one more filler to unlock that break So there's another opportunity if you didn't win this time. We'll get him next time top eight Happy times for you Chris is happy. So is Rosario Steve Burch Kevin Dennis John Edward and Steve again Congrats to you so Edward you did sneak in with a spot there There's the top eight after five Thanks everybody one more to go and breaksville. We'll see you for that a little bit later tonight. Jasper's case race comm


It's time to do it, you ain't gonna see for sure. I was gonna say, so how do you stay motivated to drop music? How do you stay motivated in the studio? You feel like you're never gonna run out of music or you just don't know? You can run out of words, if you can't run out of words, you can't run out of music. A new episode of Talk of the Town. Today we got a special guest, 2-6, Mr. Drinch. He made me sit on this side today. So last time we sat down was probably like a year from now. The first interview was when you first came home before, probably like a year ago. So how's life changed from then to now? I'm saying you can see how life changed. See how I'm coming, how I was coming before, how I'm coming now, it's long, I'm big, it's long. Yeah, so like how you been adjusting to the new fame now? I know stuff is different now, people know you fans, stop it. I'm the same person, I ain't never gonna change, but if I change how they gonna love me, they love who I was, right? You're definitely the same, I see you with the same people, I see you, keep your fame ties close. So what's something you had to get used to with all the new fame?  That's something I had to get used to, cause I ain't used to that. When a random person stop me, I think I hear Abbasong. So like, so is it more like God stop me, or is it girl stop me? Or is it just me, a little bit of everybody, kids? I'm saying, the girls don't really, the girls be shy, so they don't really stop me, they just, I just hear them saying.  I mean I'm just being honest. Abbasong, you think you threw game stuff at a girl? Nah. Nah. I don't know what it is. I don't know. Okay, so you say in a lot of interviews, you been in and out of jail since young. So when you was on your prom, I feel like you had got locked up again. So like, what was that like, did you know you was gonna come right back out cause you was used to it? What just now, when I got locked up? Yeah. Nah, that was crazy. It felt like back in the days all over, yeah.    So we was again out of bed minimums, none of that. So it was crazy just now.  So, but you quickly changed up when you came home, got back into the music, back in the studio. Right back. How often is you in the studio? Shit, we always in the studio, whenever, whenever I get bored, I'm in there. I was gonna say, like, you drop in every week, visuals, every week. And how do you feel about that? Like, you feel like that's your way of being consistent or you drop music because you just enjoy music? Like, why you drop every week? I'm saying, it's just, yeah, I just enjoy doing that. I don't know.   I'm saying, yeah, I don't know what they be doing. They always asking for more.  So, yeah, but they don't even be knowing you just dropped a week ago. That's a fact. They don't even know the words, they just want more. Yeah, I like that music.   So, like, how do you know when someone's truly a fan? Just now, how she was just turning up on the stage. That's how I know. She know all the lyrics and she like that. She dancing. That's how I know. So, like, if they don't know you last week, but they know the week before they valid? Yeah, they bad. I get on a pass. I get on a pass. Yeah, they go. Okay, okay, okay. So, I remember you made a post. It was like how you see people dropping every week now. You feel like you started that? The drop in every week type thing? I'm saying, I don't know. I started a lot. I don't know what I really started. But for sure, I'll be saying the truth. For sure. I'll be saying them probably, but... They gon' see. You heard? They gon' see for sure. So, how do you stay, like, motivated to drop music? Like, how do you stay motivated in the studio? You feel like you're never gonna run out of music, or you just don't know? You can run out of words. If you can't run out of words, you can't run out of music. That's how I feel. So, you feel like you're gonna be on that mission every week? Mm-hmm. Are you ever gonna slow up, or are you just trying to improve a point right now? Nah, I'ma slow up. I'ma tell you when I get what I wanna be when I feel like I'm at what I wanna be where but I'ma always drop music. That's it. Yeah, I mean, as you should, always drop music. So, like, when you did the AZ freestyle for Shooters Only, your freestyle was called King of Drill. You feel like you're the King of Drill right now? Shit. Yeah, that's a fact. That's why I named it that way. Big facts. They just locked me up for a drill that I don't know nothing about, you heard? That's why I came home.   I'ma as well, Jackie. I'ma as well, Jackie. They locking me up for it. I'm going down for it. Okay, okay, I get that. But it could be that because you be talking hot in your music, though. Nah, that's not why they locked me up. I know what they locked me up for. For a drill. Got it, okay, I got it. That I don't know nothing about. So, the King of Drill, what do you feel like it takes? What are some qualities you feel like of a king? Of a king? Like, everybody's trying to jacket a king of this. A king? Is it stand-up dude if I take care of everybody around me? A king? Make sure, you know what I mean? I ain't think situated. And as me, I got some qualities, bro. I'ma stand-up dude. A lot of these niggas ain't no stand-up dudes. That's a good answer. So, wet dropping every week. I'm sure you got a good relationship with your producers. Mm-hmm. Do you have a favorite producer? A favorite producer at this point. No, you wicked a lot of people. I don't know, I don't get no money for that.    Amru. That was my three favorite. Yeah, the whole off-record.  I can't forget what they did.  Definitely.  That's what they saying, I ain't even see that. Yeah. That's what they saying, so what you think? If they saying that, that's what's going on. Shout out to them. Do you read your comments a lot or not? Sometimes, I read them, yeah. When I'm bored. Is that a good or bad thing you think? What? Some artists get bad comments, some artists get good comments. What you think? As long as they commenting. They there, you heard, they there for a reason. You comment bad every time you're still there though. Shout out to you. Okay, okay, okay. So, you hit the Made in America. Mm-hmm. I want to stay, I don't know what that's called. The title thing with James. The title stay, yeah. You did a lot of stuff this year. What do you feel like is the highlight of your career so far? The highlight? I don't even, I ain't even think about it. 2021 coming to an end? Is there a lot of stuff this year? Mm-hmm. The highlight, probably being on Made in America. You heard about it for me. One of my idols got me in there. Jay-Z Ho, yeah. Jay-Z pose you in there? Cause I ain't really seen no New York artist in there. Is Jay-Z curated? Who else gonna put me in there? I don't, whoever put me in there. Shout out to them. Is Jay-Z like on your bucket list to do a song with? Who won't want to do a song with him? So like right now Jay-Z went on I think the title thing again and he was like how nobody can match him in the verses. Yeah. What you think? Nobody. They can't sell that man. I mean they did too much. They ain't doing enough. Yeah. So you said you got a lot of realness in that. So do you feel like the beef is stopping the money in the long run when it comes to music? The beef? Yeah. Yeah. But that's the fact. It is stopping the money. Cause if it was less beef it would be probably more shows. Stuff like that. Yeah. So you think that hip hop police is real? Hip hop police is definitely real. When I got locked up, they came to me. They knew I was locked up. I don't know how they knew. They just came here like we hip hop police. I'm like what? That's definitely real. You a witness you can confirm that. A lot of fans think it's fake. Nah they real. They real they know when you locked up they know everything. They know people that don't forgot no cloud like that that's dropping music. They know to the higher. Who up next? Who up next? Who ready up? They know everything. So that's definitely real. So do you think you ever chill? You don't ditch nobody. Too much now. Who I smoke when crazy.  I ain't even really into that. I'm trying to focus more on the money though. Yeah, this is people that ain't getting anywhere. Do you feel like you're ever going to switch genres?  I'm really into R&B. Come on now. Come on now, don't do that. I said I'm serious. R&B? I don't know. I'm working on the dance moves and all that. I ain't gonna find the Bronx to be crazier than the dance moves. You a Brooklyn nigga bro. But I gotta switch it up. I feel like your fans don't really see you being goofy and fun. Yeah, that's a fact. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I got the Woozy Walk. It's definitely going crazy. Woozy Walk, that's what it's called. I don't care what they say it's called. It's called the Woozy Walk. That's my dog. So you're gonna show us what that look like one day. You see it, it's in the videos. Every video I drop from now on you're gonna see the Woozy Walk. First, you spin the block. You grab the chop. You up it. Then you just geek with it. That's how you do the Woozy Walk. Okay, all ages can do that. The girls can do that. All ages, the girls, the boys. Unisex. It's unisex. What you gonna call that? So have you ever gotten a call sign that surprised you? A call sign that surprised me.  A lot of artists follow you. I be seeing people in your comments. Anything I would like?  I'm saying no. I probably did, but I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember.  NBA players. Cover U.K. Not out yet. What y'all waiting for? We waiting for the right moment. Patience is a virtue. If you don't know, patience is definitely a virtue. Not that you don't know what I'm just saying. Patience is a virtue. So we just waiting on the right time. So you feel like you really good with timing? When it comes to music and brand dance? Um... Yeah, I would say I'm good at timing.  You feel like when you got a hot record, you want to drop it now? Because you drop it every week? I go with what the fans say. If they feel like... I be trying to get the fans what they want. Okay. Yeah, I'll say that. For sure. Okay, so yes. But who I smoke, I take it down on YouTube. How you feeling about that? I ain't gonna lie, that's very unfortunate. It's very unfortunate that I got to get that because it was definitely a banger. It was about a million plus views? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It was one of those ones. Honest way to being like right under Manuva. I think it was too hot. That's why they had to take it down? At this point, I wouldn't be able to tell you. I wouldn't be able to tell you, but I ain't gonna lie at this point. I don't know. As being an artist... Anything happen for a reason? I believe that. Would you like re-release that, or it did what it did and you cooled it? Nah, we moving on. We always moving on. We never done it on the past. We done it on the past. Can't move forward. What's your favorite part about being an artist? Studio or shoot music videos?  I really like both. I really like doing both of them. I like working period, you heard. Elevate and see myself. Elevate. Yeah, I like that. That's what motivates me. Yeah, I see you do different stuff. I seen you was in a magazine. It's a little magazine. I was born out. I used to ball hard. So you gave up your hoop dreams? You would play for some money right now? Yeah, I would always play ball. I like playing ball. You feel like you're still good? Yeah, I'm great, for sure. How good are you on ball? Right now? Right now? You didn't hit the court in a little minute? Right now? Nah, I ain't hit the couple of weeks, probably. Okay. But you be working out though. Yeah, I gotta stay fit. You gotta be ready for whatever come. For sure. You know that? So how do you go about picking your beats? Oh, I'm very picky with beats. I don't just try to rap or anything. Do you look for like a certain thing? Like as far as not, like, nah, I don't look for a certain thing. It just got to sound good. I might ask the people in the room if they like it. If they don't like it, I ain't jagging it. For sure. And for this year, on Toca Town, was nominated for best male artist. I was? I appreciate that. He didn't notice. I ain't no, I ain't no. Best male artist, yes. Best male artist, I appreciate that for sure. There's only five contenders this year. Y'all been there from the start, I appreciate y'all for sure. So how do you feel like you improve this year overall as an artist? This year? Shit. I be working so much that I don't even pay attention to that. I just keep going. As long as you keep going, you know what people problem is, they stop. They can't stop. They got to keep going. Whatever you doing, just keep going. You going to get better gradually. Naturally. The big slump said it. Definitely just keep on working. Do you have artists that you want to collaborate with? Do you have any mainstream artists? Mainstream?  No cat. Dirt. Baby. Little baby. Little baby, yeah. For sure. Who's some artist that motivates you? Same niggas. Little baby. Dirt. That drive heat. Consistently. Little baby had a good year. Dirt had a good year to see him. Vaughn used to motivate me too for sure. You feel like you're transitioning into R&B? You feel like you're going somewhere else? I'm trying to switch it up.   He's so lying. I got a lot about that. He's not about to break dance.  R&B Chris Brown. Ain't nobody bigger than that. Under that. It's more R&B artist. It's more R&B artist. You got Summer Walker. You got Ramp Fias. Ramp Fias. I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. Who are you listening to? You only listen to yourself? R&B. In general. Who on your playlist right now? Me. Rocco. Tazo. Jiggo. Dirt. Baby. What Chris Brown song on your playlist?    He ain't no way. He got classics. He got timeless music. That's my life. Timeless music. Which one of your songs do you feel like is timeless? Timeless. Three timeless tracks that you feel like is timeless. To me, personally how I feel. My opinion. And Rodgers. My first song. I feel like that's timeless. To me. It would be timeless to me. Always. Remember that. Black and. Black and. One more. Something new this year. Black and. Heavenly. Heavenly. Heavenly.  Cause like.  I don't be right. I like you to call.  That's a classic. Except for my habit. Classics to you? I feel like it's Manuva. Manuva. I feel like Flauda. I want to say who I smoke. But I don't want to say who I am. But. I got 21. 21. 21 go crazy. Those are my three timeless tracks. Why you feel like you and Rocco work so well together? Cause. Cause before the same. Struggle you heard. It's my brother. My little brother. Y'all been doing music for years now. Yeah. That's definitely a long time. Alright so. 2021. I mean 2022 my bad. What should your fans look forward to? 2022. What can we see from 2016 this year? The same thing. We work anywhere. We never gonna stop. Are you a major? Are you still independent? Like what's going on? Shit. I don't know. See these VVs. Independent money? I don't know. I don't know. 2022. Big collab. Maybe you and Rush this year. Of course there's a lot of big collabs. I want to see you work with a girl. It's probably there, buddy. Okay.  We gotta wait and see.  We break dancing. Yo. Yo. But tell people where to find you. Appreciate you. 26AR. J-O on the grand. 26AR go J-O. Yeah. 26AR on everything. Slum. Yeah. They call me King Drench though. What drench mean? Drench is no explanation. If you know they know. Can you think about that? Explanation for drench? Explanation for drench? Drench can mean drip. It can mean a lot of things. It can mean it's raining outside. It can mean a lot of things. Okay. And then, I seen fans in comments like Mike and Mary need to sponsor you. I feel about that. That's how I feel. They really do. Somebody tell him in my line. I gotta set that up. I'm saying the fans gotta have them up. All the fans gotta demo.  You gotta sponsor him. If you had to put a number on it. How much you think you spent in a Mary store? A lot of money.  Thousands of thousands. Over 50 for sure. Big facts. I'm saying over 50 in a Mary store. Thousands of facts, you see it?  Stop playing. How much you think you spent there? Me playing.  For sure. But yeah, I appreciate you two stick for pulling up. I appreciate you two. You know I'm being all loyalty. You know I'm being all loyalty. You know I'm being all loyalty. I appreciate you two.


Tom here from Warren Systems and we're going to talk about Synology Active Backup for Business, very specifically the active backup for backing up computers or Synologies or other NAS devices, virtual machines, etc. The Synology Active Backup for Microsoft 365 or Google G Suite, Google Workspace, whatever you're calling it these days is another video I have linked in the description below. Now first, this is not a sponsored review, but we are a Synology reseller and we do a lot of Synology consulting. My experience I'm sharing is from doing that consulting from doing these deployments and my biases are well I wouldn't sell a product that didn't work so I will at least disclose all that up front so you know where I stand on the product and why we choose it. Now Synology Active Backup for Business is great but not necessary for every situation and we're going to start by going over to my forum post and this forum post is a list of what we love, what we don't love here in January 2023 and I'm hoping there's a future video coming that I make where these problems are addressed. I have actually talked to Synology about them. I know it's stuff they are working on but there's no dates for any of this being fixed and we'll get to that in the description down below. You'll find this link where we can dive into these details together or just comment and post on my forums for if you want to have a more in-depth discussion which I usually say for the end of the video but hey I always like to hear people's thoughts in the comments and over in my forums so let's jump over there. Now the first thing I'll mention is I said for backing up local systems in this here because that's the ideal way to set this up but yes it will work over a VPN provided you have the bandwidth to do so. It also does an initial backup which is going to be larger and then incremental thereafter so yes you could do the full backup first and then take it off site and use a VPN but consider bandwidth if you're doing that and also don't open up the ports to the internet as I said use a VPN. Now the first good thing about this is the no licensing no subscriptions limitations are your available storage and concurrent numbers of backups that you can find details here on the different Synology NAS models and their backup support. They have a list that gives you how many backups you can do simultaneously on these. The Synology NAS is either supported or don't it's not an upsell or a feature you buy it's just a feature that comes with a lot of different models. I am leaving that link here so whenever you're watching this in the future you can get your list and see what the most current ones and what their concurrent number of backups they support as far as how much storage that's a function of how much do you need to back up and how much storage you have available and that will determine really how many you can back up it's the concurrent that you have to consider when you're doing a bunch of simultaneous. If you have a office full of 100 of them you're going to need a machine if you want those 100 back up at once or you want to stagger them those are some of the decisions that Synology can help you decide by looking at the different models and how many concurrent they offer on those different models. Storage is made efficient though with deduplication for example backing up a office full of Windows machines you're going to find that some of those machines probably have a lot of the same files on there and it can deduplicate and reduce your overall need for storage in that pool. Now we can of course back up Windows 10 11 Windows servers using their agent but there's also agent list backups of SMB file shares granular permissions and encryption options bare metal restore so yes you can restore this either via their bootable USB when you create the media which I recommend always having ready ahead of time that way if you have to restore something you grab their USB bootable media and you grab a machine to put it back on or replace the hard drive in it and if you're going to dissimilar hardware Windows is way more forgiving than it used to be when you do this install and you can do this to load it on a different system you may have Windows prompt you for reactivation but yes you can restore it self-service restore portal this isn't a way you can have and restore a specific file but yes it can be restored to not just one machine you can restore a file from one machine back to another machine so there's some diversity you have in terms of options and we'll show that later in the demo VMware and Hyper-V integration this is great because it can talk directly to your VMware or Hyper-V system and do the backups or do restores to those without you having to go through any type of manual process it can integrate very good with those I don't have that as a demo because I have neither one of those systems set up but it's a nice integration it can do automatic backup verification as a task you can set up your backup tasks and you can also add to that backup task you may not want it on all of them but I left that as a link so you can go through house knowledge process work we will do a demo of that but that automatic backup verification will take and restore that physical machine to a VM I think this is a great feature to be able to do that it does a recording and let you play that recording back so you can confirm that the backup didn't just go it works now the other reason I left the link to that is there are some prerequisites you have to have a machine with enough resources to do that automatic backup verification it's an important feature of it is you can't restore a machine that needs 16 gigs of RAM to boot if you at least don't have that much available on the Synology you're trying to do this on now the instant restore for VMware Hyper-V and Synology virtual machine manager we'll do a demo of doing it to the Synology virtual machine manager this is kind of a cool feature where you can take any one of the physical servers and just instantly restore them or instantly start them on a Synology system now Linux supports not something I really use because I left it with the link here called limited support they have very specific OS systems that they support and that's it you can't deviate outside of there it's only certain kernels supported and certain operating systems so I say limited support if you want to use it that's why that link is there if you want to understand it better things that are missing central management allowing easy viewing of multiple systems at multiple sites if you have 70 plus businesses and you would like to be able to view all the different backups going on there you have to start logging into every dashboard they just haven't created a good central dashboard for this I don't really know why it's taking so long I get it it's hard but it seems like this is a feature that is something I request and I'm sure a lot of others would love to have and it kind of keeps Synology out of the managed service provider market in my opinion because it's hard to manage when you have a lot of different businesses you don't want to log into every one of these and look at a report you'd like to have everything on one central dashboard they do have active insight which I'm hoping is where we'll eventually get this feature and they have their CMS which is a locally hosted central management system by Synology to talk to other Synologies but neither one of those tell you the individual backup status they will tell you if the service is running on each of these Synologies but it won't give me the granular details of every machine that's backed up and if there's any errors now I know you can set the system to notify you of errors notify you of completion but that also scales up to be a problem because if you talk about managing 70 sites and each one of those sites having quite a few computers now you have a different mess on your hand and it would just be better suited to a central dashboard like some of the other commercial tools out there no automatic agent update is also a weird thing that's missing I don't know why this is missing it's a puzzle to me it seems like that would be easy to do just put a checkbox so I can automatically update but that's not there I've also occasionally had trouble where the update agent wouldn't run on systems that were off you would tell it and it's supposed to queue the command and I've had it sometimes fail without error you just run it again and it works that's been a puzzle now if the agent is online and systems online it's worked every time but I have noted that when they switched to the 2.5 I did the updates and that was a puzzle it just decided it wasn't going to I thought that was a little strange but me I'm being honest here about that's a challenge I've run into but without an error message or a way to repeat it it's not been a bug I've been able to report there are a few options in the active backup menu they're very clear and obvious but I cannot find a good chart that clearly explained the difference between personal computer and physical server so I made this one and I mean that sincerely I read through a lot of documentation and this is one of those nuances of why would you even use personal computer if physical server does the same thing and for the most part I get it you want to keep the personal computers and all the you know windows workstations in one place and all the physical servers in another place in terms of the way the backup is but it also there's some challenges to that one of them is kind of confusing to me and I use this on my personal computer one with my studio computer because with the studio computer I love these event-based trigger startup and shutdown that's really the only thing missing over here besides macOS support from the physical server one and what this means is every time I turn my computer on I want to kick off a backup and you can also have a backup again when it shuts down that's just not a feature you can do when it's set to physical server but if you want to use these other features such as auto verify backup restore to ESXi instant restore or hyperv restore application where backups and pre-post scripts you have to put them in the physical server category now it's arbitrary which when you put even though it says server you can still back up your windows 10 and 11 workstations under the physical server but that's just the nuance of the way this system works inside that's why I made this little chart just to make sure people are clear on what is or isn't supported here in January 2023 for the different versions now of note I have this video down here the Synology active backup for Microsoft 365 and Google workspace I've done a video on the topics an older video but it's still relevant it's still something that we've helped set up for clients it's a nice feature that they have in their systems let's start by taking a look at the dashboard here this is the one of my office when we have six pcs in here set for backups then we have our backup calendar which is about 30 days back and you can see all these green to let me know that there were four successful backups if I mouse over here for here three here that's because some computers are in the office some people work from home different days of the week but this gives you the idea and actually will give you another idea here of how much deduplication is occurring so for the data reduction we're at 1.9x for the amount of data that's been reduced and I'm doing a mouse over to be able to get that so we have 1.3 terabytes but after you deduplicate it you're saving 392 gigs across these machines because they're similar enough that's just all the files that can be crossed out for those particular backups now I also have a analogy here at my studio and this one has a failure and it matter of fact the other day one of the backups failed and you can have these reports sent to you on an individual basis as I said for each site where you can have the system say hey if this fails send me a notice but we can go into and dive into the reports when there is a failure and I do have a notice that was sent to me let me know this backup failed it took a look at it and said oh yeah that's right I was running Windows updates at that time so if you look at the task history you can see it 1652 it failed about an hour later worked perfectly fine and not a big deal when that happens the you can always rerun you can go to any of these tasks and we'll go back over here to personal computer task list and I can just rerun it manually if needed it's not that often that there's a problem with the failure but I did find it interesting that when I was running Windows update it didn't work but that makes sense because Windows update also sometimes is modifying volume shadow copy which is used to create the snapshots now in terms of all the versions you have all the versions here which you can go look you can go here to see if there's any other information or delete that version which there's no other information we'll get to a demo where there is because that's part of the backup restore process for doing the verification but if we wanted to purge and maybe I don't need this one from this particular day I can hit and just delete this particular one but you set your retention settings when you set these up and when you add these if you want to create a task or add a device you can either add the device here from the personal computer or add them to the physical server now as far as the strategy NAS back up that one's a little bit more obvious you would add the physical NAS that you wanted to back up and then going down here to the file server you can add a server and you choose SMB or arcing server pretty simple same thing with virtual machines you can connect it to your VMware your Hyper-V and create your task list related to that but I have neither of those set up and then here's that just general storage and the reduction on my system which for two systems is about 1.7x because they're both running Windows 10 restore status activities general activities and kind of a task history report and log report so I do like that you have a nice logging history that you can set to go through here and you can run reports so if I want to run a monthly backup report you can just generate the report here daily monthly and we'll actually just show you what the report looks like an open report gives you a history of the usage over whatever time period you request it I think this is a nice feature to be able to present once again though it's only doing it on each instance of snelligee active backup now as I said you can do a bare metal restore which is pretty simple but let's go through and actually show you what would do for a granular restore through the portal this is probably the more common use case and I like that you have an instant timeline here now when you're restoring it you'll get images from the backup for doing a bare metal restore but you're a little more granular when you're doing the active backup portal so stew is my studio computer and for each backup there's a date we can jump to so we can go to all these different dates that we have available to us and click on that particular date and go to that particular version so if I needed stuff from however long my retention policy set I think the oldest ones I have are 115 that's as far back as I go because I'm not going by date I'm going by number of revisions but I can go to this version of it and then I can go into the users maybe I want to go into this particular user stew and what does stew have for downloads and there's some capture utility files all right maybe I want to restore that file or download it I can download it here I can restore it to stew or I can choose my yeming system which is offline right now so it's going to give an error but yes you can restore it it'll pull up and it's querying directly that system and says you can restore it to any active online system so I can actually switch and we'll close this and close because it failed and we'll switch this now to tom's gaming system and same rules apply so we'll go here to disk users tom let's go to tom's downloads hey there's the rocat swarm software maybe crystal disk that I was testing and maybe I want to restore it to another system hit make sure I'm choosing stew because stew is online the studio computer and then I can actually push this file I'll actually do that let's go to push that one to the downloads on this computer so go to downloads hit okay and we want to take this particular file and restore it to here hit okay and the process gets kicked off and that runs in the background and now I can go to that system and grab that file now I want to jump over to our Synology FS 3410 there's a review video down below where I reviewed this specific system and showed how fast it can do an instant restore but I also want to show you the backup verification process so we have two tasks server backup and backup and test and restore you may not want to run these concurrently every time and I see that because you can do it all in one process so if you look at the server backup and we edit this task I can easily check the box right here that says enable backup verification the problem is I may not have the resources or the need to do that on every single time I run the backup so if I run the backup daily maybe I only want to create a second task that only runs maybe once a week to do the restore and maybe you stagger that with other systems because you have several servers and you don't want to try and restore all of them once that's up to you but this is the strategy that you can do by creating multiple tasks around a single instance so it's got a many to one relationship here now when you're on these tasks you click on version and it will tell you if there's a verify backup status or we're going to go here because this one does if we edit this task we have it set to enable backup verification and we go here we click on a version and what it does is every time this backup task has run which I've run it twice we end up with this little browse the live video backup option so we click this and it brings up a folder now in this folder is the image file and also a live video so the image file not a snapshot image but an image that we can download an img file of the backup and we have one here as well it creates them all in these folders that was kind of weird they don't have like a player natively built in but you can right click and hit play and it's going to open in a new window and it'll walk you through the process that it goes through and this is a one minute 20 second video and runs through it's recording the screen of the Synology virtual machine manager and this is like I said the file it automatically created it injects first the drivers for Synology the Synology agent and then we're 19 20 seconds in it's booting up again applying computer settings and booted so it takes about 30 seconds to do the restore on this particular machine as fast as it is and based on the fact that this is not a particularly large Windows server that I have installed if you have a Windows server that has well a lot of data in it's going to take longer to do this restore and longer to do this process so something you should keep in consideration when you're doing it now one more thing that creates a little bit of confusion if you go to personal computer and we look at this particular system and I see the file folder or entire device an entire device walks you through the media creation if you have to do a bare metal restore pretty simple but if you're on the physical server like this one here you'll notice that there's a restore button but it's kind of different because it has these options that bring you to this restore to be able to do an instant restore for example to any one of these destinations now that leads people to believe how do you do the file of a restore and that's where the nuance comes in you can still open up the active backup restore portal so we go to active business restore portal and it loads and there's our system here it's kind of weird that restore portal is linked on the pc backup one it's just not linked on the other one but you can still go to the active backup for business restore portal and still get to it I've seen comments where people thought maybe you couldn't if it was set up physical server do the restore portal but the restore portal works the same for either one of those options it's just the way it's linked is different because you have to go directly to the active backup for business launch not launch it from the other way but both work it's just a little bit of a weird nuance that they don't bother adding an extra button right there a little bit of confusion hope that clears it up for some people now I hope this video left you with enough information for you to decide if the active backup system is right for you if it didn't or I didn't have enough details in or other questions you have I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments down below or just say hi also if you like to have a more in-depth discussion more than us allowed in the YouTube comments section that is why this is a forum post which is also linked to my forums down below where we can have a more in-depth and more engaging discussion also take the time to read Synology's documentation it's extensive there's a lot of it I think they did a great job on documentation I just tried to summarize it a bit because that can be sometimes a challenge when you want to make a decision of how much time do you want to commit to reading documentation just to try out a product so if you have a few other questions as I said leave them below and thanks and thank you for making it all the way to the end of this video if you've enjoyed the content please give us a thumbs up if you would like to see more content from this channel hit the subscribe button and the bell icon if you like to hire a short project head over to laurance systems dot com and click the hires button right at the top to help this channel out in other ways there's a join button here for youtube and a patreon page where your support is greatly appreciated for deals discounts and offers check out our affiliate links and description of all of our 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