lcomed that when it was ultimately removed from the social rented sector however um the guidance was there to obviously encourage landlords to be mindful about um how how large our rent increased that we're going to apply um and what we've ultimately seen at the same time was obviously the cost of living crisis um as well as landlords struggling with inflationary costs as well so um ultimately a lot of our tenant members absolutely again empathize with our landlords they're up they need to run operate as a business first and foremost um it's not financially viable to continue to increase rent well below cpi um long term that puts tenants homes tenants at their tenancies at risk um so we always advocate for tenants to be able to obviously proactively negotiate their rent levels for the year ahead um that being said um early represents living rent and in Glasgow we're the unique we get funding through um Glasgow's communities fund and um we absolutely recognize um we keep an eye on um national policy um we see not we were against strategic partners of the scottish government we were involved in the consultation for housing to 2040 and also thereafter for the new deal for tenants the rented sector strategy which eludes to supporting private rented sector tenants to have the same rights as social rented sector tenants um for that reason we used funding in partnership with Glasgow city council to um trial a unique um tenant-led housing commission for the private rented sector um and living rent were represented on that um as well that that body it was um 11 private rented sector tenants sitting around the table with stakeholder organizations such as cash such as shelter as well um and effectively working together to identify what the key issues were with Glasgow's private rented sector but also moving towards making recommendations for reform and rent controls is absolutely one of them now ultimately we as an organization we support that we were looking to support private rented sector tenants to have a proactive meaningful platform to engage with the local authority to make improvements um thankfully we've seen some of those recommendations reflected within Glasgow's new housing strategy rent controls obviously wasn't one of the ones that were there to take forward but the commission in itself did acknowledge and Carol said mentioned this earlier on that um I think one of the things we need to prioritize first and foremost is getting the data we need to we need to we need to know what tenants what rents that they're paying um a lot of the the models we base it on are looking at um new lets that are coming in and we're missing a lot of data for existing tendencies that are in there at the moment and maybe that's a priority we know the new the rented sector strategy eludes to that we need better data to better inform us before we put rent controls and measures in place so I think us as an organization and the commission as a body as well in Glasgow absolutely recognize that that there's got to be work done from local authorities to understand what private rented sector tenants are currently paying in rent before we can then look at what rent controls are appropriate all right thanks very much for giving us that wider context and that kind of innovation of kind of collaboration in Glasgow Emma you wanted to come in on the questions yeah I think putting measures in place so that people aren't hit with large rent increases as we exit the emergency measures is a good thing um but we do have a number of concerns um about what's being proposed and move forward on rent adjudication um like Ailey's already indicated we feel that there's a lot of complexity about this and we too are struggling to communicate that to our advisors across the 59 bureaus at Citizens Advice and if we can't get our advisors to understand the process how do we get tenants and individuals to be able to understand that and that complexity which is therefore creating a barrier to accessibility um really is a very real issue we also just have some general concerns about um how people renters will be empowered to use the system um we already know that people are not coming forward to use redress and at the moment particularly engaging with something like that because of fear of being evicted um is really kind of holding people back so actually how many people are going to actually use this and get a good and successful outcome out of it is something that I guess that we're really concerned with and finally just to pick up on Stephen's point about data it's absolutely critical um we desperately need robust timely and available data um about the private rented sector to be able to help us to make all of the decisions that we've been talking about this morning okay just before I bring in Marie McNair with another question just on the data are there are there things already in place where we gather it that could easily be moved into you know pulling that information together are you aware of anything I see a nodding head over here maybe I can one of the situation one of the situation could be could be relatively easily utilised to gather about that data but that's a case that's been made for about six years and I think goes back to that kind of lethargic uh lack of urgency and the other bit for me and on the six percent above the low thing um is this continued reliance on on market rents and there's no conversation of the cost I'd say 50 percent of private landlords have no mortgage and if they're able to set there if the assumption is is that the starting point is the market rent and they are able that then we're talking about super profits being made across across the sector but the absence of data is is crucial okay did you say 50 or 60 50 percent according to according to UK finance if you look at the number of biotelect mortgages compared to the number of properties I like that's a UK figure rather than the Scottish one okay great Marie do you want to come in with your question it's unfortunate for you but but and how reliable is the data to allow rent officers and the tribunal to to make an informed decision really so this is one of the things that's not very reliable at all and before the introduction of the rent adjudication process as it currently stands that we forget that you know letting agents will also buy up in one area and so when you're using open market rents based on one block they're setting those prices against themselves so there's a whole other element and who controls the market as well it's not just numbers into a system it's obviously very controlled by profits and so that's one of the problems with it again what Gordon said about landlord registration I think that's hugely important and I think this lack of data that was available is one of the reasons why rent pressure zones failed because local authorities didn't have the data available to them that if you made it a requirement every year for landlords to report their rent to landlord registration you'd have the data there and it's a relatively easy thing to implement and then also in terms for empowering tenants as well that they would see on the database that you know this landlord has increased the rent by 200 300 pound a year in theory so in terms of empowering tenants to challenge that as well that's hugely important um so yeah just to say that the dust is really important and that um relying on sites like zoopla and uh what are the other letting agent sites just yeah it's not the way to go about it thanks for that Ely Chris I think that point talks to the kind of inequality of arms if it can put it like that within the sector in that it's it's far easier for landlords to vindicate their rights to their property which they rightly have than it is for tenants to vindicate their rights to a decent home an affordable home etc because it's much harder for them to prove that the the market is acting to disadvantage them and I think what the conveners refer to is how that data is collected is is very important and often you know the Scottish government did a lot I'm sure a lot of the people around this table were reached out to by the the teams of civil servants trying to get insight into into what this would mean it's it's data which frankly it's incumbent upon the Scottish government and local government to get because then that inequality of arms remains if we want to as Gordon was referring to the start if we want people to be able to vindicate and defend our rights whether it's for a new bill or through the UNCRC or whatever else people need good data to be able to make those arguments yeah I was going to say that I think of the new rent control proposals as rpz 2.0 really it obviously has inclusion of new new tenancies as well but it's exactly the same fundamental issues about how do you you need data to be able to monitor and assess what's going on in a local market the whole point of these models is to create at a at a spatially well-defined local area what's going on so you need to know what's going on and zoopla and all that excellent new rent data they've got doesn't do that job it can't do that job we recently did a study for chart institute housing about local housing allowances where we did an foi to find out the breakdown between new new rents and existing tenancies used by the rent service at each broad rental market area and absolutely dominated by the the new the new rents so so there's a really serious question I think if turnover is is variable in local markets as it's going to be relying on just new rents will not tell you what the actual underlying market rent is so and I think as as gordon says said earlier the obvious place to go is is is to reboot the landlord registration system so that we do get all rents and we have property card basic property cards with stick size and type would probably be enough in an address to be able to do the analysis but there seem to be roadblocks to that that seem to stop it being able to be pushed forward during the consultation back in 22 the implication and it was that's what the government wanted to do but the in discussions subsequently they seem to be there seems to be complete ambiguity and lack of clarity but whether that is something that they think they can pursue okay thanks for that is there anything so apart from in the in the registration for his landlord registration apart from declaring the rent is there any you say reboot it is there anything else that we can add into that at the same time as I say if you could add in some some prop some property characteristics length of tenancy some something something similar just says a little bit about what the tenancy looks like you just have a what the economists would call a really powerful hedonic database where you could actually link together rent to location to property type other characteristics and you'd be able to see you'd be able to do that would open up the analysis right what about things like EPC ratings absolutely yeah that kind of a gas boiler check I wouldn't go I wouldn't go too far because I seriously I wouldn't go too far but you don't need a lot to be able to do the kind of things you want but there are obviously there are specific policy things of interest yes okay great thanks very much for that okay so I'm just going to bring in the final question from who's that oh online Stephanie Callahan who's been listening intently to a discussion thanks very much convener and some really really important points there I think made around data however I'm interested in hearing from the panel about what they see as the impact of homelessness at the end of eviction provisions thank you anybody want to pick that Rhiannon yeah I mean so that the cost of living acts provisions coming to an end at the end of March is a real worry in terms of a potential rise in evictions I think especially alongside these rent adjudication measures being introduced at the same time I think you know crisis supports the rent adjudication measures because it is as colleagues have said a kind of pragmatic approach it's almost like the only way out of the situation that we're that we have now but I think it needs to be accompanied by a public awareness raising campaign to let tenants know that you know if they do experience a rent increase that that there are things that they can do that they can go to their local cab or they can go to the rent service Scotland my worry I suppose is that without that that you know tenants are going to be worried if they challenge rent rent increases directly with their landlord that they might be at risk of eviction and potentially illegal eviction so I think there needs to be public messages out there that makes it clear that what is being put in place and that what tenants rights are in relation to eviction and the new eviction grounds being made discretionary rather than mandatory and so on and there's obviously a role for advice agencies in that as well but yeah the homelessness monitor Scotland which is a research report which was recently published surveys local authorities and one of the key things that came out of that was their local authorities concern around a steep rise in eviction from the private rented sector as these cost of living act provisions come to an end at the end of March so yes it's just one one more thing I think that is kind of adding to the pressures and the concerns at the moment thanks Gordon I think it's important to say there's not been an eviction ban for most of our clients because of the the very low floor that the the exceptional rears was set at which was always below the average level at which an eviction would take place enemy most landlords did do work with with their tenants so we've always held that it was the act was a fundamentally flawed piece that the other bit is we then there's no doubt that we will see more evictions as this you know we've got we advise people every day on our helpline that are saying that my landlords told me as soon as they can they're going to increase the rent as Emma said you know it's likely that people will you know if they push it to 10 percent above is that really worth trying to access the rent right you that the service is I think a bit of a mishmash the other thing is the courts do not have the capacity to to defend these actions so I think we are looking at a bit of a cliff edge here where we're going to have people unable to access advice landlords and tenants equally unable to really navigate the system and I think there will be some online calculators and so on for those people that can that can access them but it's it's it's another source of it's another shock potentially to the homelessness services at a time when it can ill afford any new any new expansion of need okay thanks Pam you wanted to come in with a small supplementary yeah thank you it's it's actually my question I'm coming in but what they're speaking about oh yes right yes yeah thank you convener last week we heard that the changes to the regulations are viewed too many as confusing and today we are hearing that basically missing data basically could cause a problem as well and this is something that Callum I'm going to say the name right I think Shomsak from the Chartered Institute of Housing mentioned as well how important data is and also we're hearing today from the side of tenants as well but let's speak about the landlords now from their side and looking at that do you feel that first of all with all this areas of confusion and missing data right should these regulations still go ahead the second thing is do you feel that this would impact upon the supply of housing because this is taking investor basically out of this market will have less houses out there basically to rent as well out so that means we're going to come out with that is it going to come out with a bigger shortage of homes should we be having a balance in this for tenants and for obviously landlords so it's my question's kind of around the fact that how do you balance that and should these regulations go ahead and David if you want to go ahead and I'm looking at you first yeah the data point is one we've always been worried about and and the capacity for rent service Scotland equally we've talked to RSS directly have them into our members always been worried about that going back years and back to RPZ and and so on we do think these regulations are a pragmatic response and therefore yes I mean if something was going to happen then then then they should go ahead because in a way I think they they do try and avoid that cliff edge for tenants and you know there's no doubting there are some landlords there who have been frozen in terms of their income and are you know financially the financial viability of continuing as landlords is an issue without a shadow of a doubt many more are looking to exit the sector we're told so so for those reasons we agree I would encourage the the committee to have a look at what the ONS is proposing in terms of trying to improve that balance between sitting tenant rental changes and that should help and that and that that work has been done they've sampled it so that should help these new provisions hopefully in terms of investors we've talked to I have to say they felt this was a sensible step forward and you know and therefore there's more discussions going about that future supply properties off the back of of these there was widespread uncertainty before that I have to report as to what would happen come 31st of March okay thanks at Ailey I can't see how the rent adjudication process would necessarily affect supply because it's for sitting tenants rent controls on the other hand there is obviously that argument about supply which also just doesn't really seem to be true Germany has one of the biggest PRS yeah systems in terms of housing and it has rent controls you know France has rent controls like UK the UK and Scotland obviously are actually out with Europe for not having a form of rent controls in terms of supply I don't really I think that's more of a red herring and in in Scotland the rental market actually increased by 3000 properties of during the rent cap and you know we've heard we read the documentation as well and that landlords have actually said the changes at a UK tax level were more decent of disincentivising than rent controls in terms of that so I don't think rent controls torpedo supply essentially yeah thank you for that because thank you for that information because obviously this was highlighted last week from our witnesses quite a lot that there would be an issue and there is an issue there are people by be moving out the market so if you've given those stats I will go back and check those stats and see what's happened yeah no thank you thanks very much and finally Emma just very briefly to kind of come in on this because I think it is an important conversation and bring landlords into this that citizens advice we provide advice both to individuals and to indeed landlords as well you know sort of I think Ailey's made some excellent points which I won't go over myself but I do think we do have a role to play in making sure that good landlords don't leave the system because they do play an important part in designing the rent control system that we want for the future and we need to see what it is that we need to do in terms of facilitating training and advice and support for landlords within that but if I take our mind back to the start of the conversation about prioritisation and what are the biggest issues that we face and where is the absolute burning platform so that we see right now it is not with landlords it's with individuals who are experiencing the absolute worst of the homelessness crisis that we're seeing across Scotland today as I was preparing for coming in today and reading some of I guess the devastating examples that we see throughout the cab network and I know Rhiannon and Gordon would be able to share equally harrowing stories but something that really struck me was in the east of Scotland cab at the moment they're working with an individual who has found themselves homeless because of affordability issues and he's now living in a tent in a rural community can you imagine what it must be like to be sleeping in a tent in rural Scotland in February that is where the burning platform of the issues that we have are right now and that's absolutely where our attention needs to be okay thanks very much for for that pointing us in a particular direction there at the end of that conversation so thank I think it has been a really good conversation I we probably could have had a couple more hours to unpack some of the kind of bits and pieces that were raised across across the room and throughout the conversation but really appreciate you all giving the time to this discussion today I'm now going to briefly suspend the meeting to allow you all to leave the room but colleagues we're going to need to press on with some other bits and pieces quite soon thanks thanks willy the next item on our agenda today is to consider the following negative instruments local governance scotland act 2004 remuneration amendment regulations 2024 ssi 2024 slash 24 and then the most non-domestic rating valuation of utilities scotland amendment order 2024 ssi 2024 slash 25 there's no requirement for the committee to make any recommendations on negative instruments do members have any comments on these instruments no one has any comments is the committee agreed that we do not wish to make any recommendations in relation to these instruments we are agreed thank you we previously agreed to take the next three items in private so as that was the last public item on our agenda for today I now close the public part of the meeting


MapCentabolic Advanced is the first maps program where we really program in Training to failure. That's one component. There's more than that, but that's one component failure training didn't seem to do very well with low Rep now low reps have a lot of value They have tons of value But for low reps to have value you got to be able to do a lot of volume in terms of sets if you're gonna do sets of Three reps you typically want to do a lot of sets of three reps One set to failure with three reps Just doesn't seem to be enough Volume or produce enough of a stimulus to cause muscle growth plus the risk of injury is so high Right. Yeah. Yeah, I also found that higher reps tends to work better with failure training Now the research is cool with this because they find that even as high as 30 reps produces great muscle growth So long as you go to failure


Personal finance practice problem using OneNote. Estimate affordable home purchase price. Get ready to get financially fit by practicing personal finance. You're not required to, but if you have access to OneNote and would like to follow along, we're in the icon left hand side in the practice problems tab in the 7050 estimated affordable home purchase price tab. Also take a look at the immersive reader tool or practice problems are in the text area too with the same name, same number, but with transcripts, transcripts that can be translated into multiple languages and either listened to or read in them. Information on the left hand side, we're gonna use that to build our blue tables on the right hand side. Our objective is in essence to take our monthly gross income and use that to then determine how much home we can purchase using our worksheets.  We're gonna first step, take the perspective of we know the monthly gross income looking from the perspective of the financial institution, the financer, typically the bank, in terms of how much they think that we can pay on a monthly basis for the financing based on our monthly gross income using typical metrics that a financial institution might use in general metrics, heuristics of the bank. Once we know that amounts, how much we can pay or how much the bank is willing to allow us to pay back on a monthly basis for finance, then we might be able to use that to determine how much loan they would be willing to give us. Once we know how much loan they would be willing to give us, we can use the down payment that is typically required and use that to determine how much home we might be able to purchase. So once again, we're going from our gross income and ultimately arriving at how much home we could purchase based on that metric, let's see how that could work or how we might go about that type of analysis. So we're going to start with the 3,500 for the monthly gross income. We've got the financial institution and again, we're looking at this from a financial institution perspective. You might be saying, hey, why don't I get my income statement and take a look at my financing from that perspective? You would want to do that from on your books to determine how much you think that you can afford for the monthly payments and so on. But from the financial institution's perspective, they might use some heuristics, they might use some standard rates that they will apply and these are often gonna be kind of rates that will be applicable for standard types of loans, such as say a 30 year fixed, you're probably gonna have more standard kind of rates that they might be using and these could be determined for multiple different things. They might be subject to the current environment that's in there, the current regulations and of course the financial institutions and possibly your current conditions. But to some degree, they could be somewhat standardized. So you want to take a look at the financial institutions at that point in time and think about what the rate that they are using. So you might hear a rate called a PITI, which is the principal interest taxes and insurance rate and that's them trying to determine, basically they might use that rate to help to determine how much monthly amount that you can spend towards. In this case, it says right here, of course the principal, the interest, that's gonna be the loan and then we have the taxes and insurance that is also could be kind of packed into that rate that they might be using. So then we've got the other debt that we have here, that's gonna be the $200. So we might have other debt that is in place that we're paying down as well, that we want to be considering in our calculation and that a financial institution might kind of pack in to this rate calculation up top. And then we've got the loan, it's gonna be a 25 year loan, we're gonna say at 9% and we've got the down payment percent is 20%. So when we purchase a home, we're gonna say that you gotta put 20% down, like with the rate here, like with this calculation up top, these things will be dependent on the current situation. So they might be somewhat standardized as of a point in time for standardized types of loans, like a 30 year fixed and for certain conditions that might be met for a certain individual. So you wanna determine where those items are at a point in time. And so oftentimes you gotta put 20% down as like a standard down payment. If that's to require down payment, then we can use that to determine the home purchase price. Monthly property taxes and insurance, we're gonna say is 270. Okay, so given that information, we're gonna take the monthly gross income, we can spend calculation. So this is going to be the monthly gross income, 3,500. We're gonna use our heuristic, our rate that we would be determining that we're assuming is kind of the rate that a financial institution would be using. That's the PITI, the principal interest, taxes and insurance. We're using 38%, that percent may change from depending on the economic circumstances. So look at your financial institutions and see what at this point in time, the applicable rate could be for you.  Now, note that that rate includes principal interest, principal and interest taxes and insurance. And sometimes they might adjust that rate to include things like the other debt that is included there. So that this number right here, they might be trying to pack in everything, not just the financing charges on the loan. And what we want to do is get down to the financing charges on the loan so that I can use that to determine how much loan we might be able to get. So what I'm gonna do then is I'm gonna take that amount and if the monthly property taxes and insurance are included in this monthly fee, because this number right here is used to try to think about whether or not we could afford the whole purchase process, not just the financing. But I wanna get down to just the financing. So if the 270 was the monthly property taxes and insurance, as we see here, I'm gonna pull that out of this number so I can get down into this number to just the financing number. We've got the other debt, so once again, this 1,330 may include or maybe increase to take into consideration other debt that you might have. It's just one nice quick calculation number that say a financial institution you could use is we don't wanna have other debt in this number because we wanna get down to the amount that is just related to the financing of the loan. So if I took this 1,330 minus the 270 minus the 200, we get down to the 860. So now that 860 we're assuming at this point is how much they're willing to give us basically just for the financing of the loan. Now I know that the rate, let's assume the rate is 9%, this is another thing that would be fairly standard as of a point in time if the credit was good and if you're talking about standard loans as opposed to loans that are gonna vary like adjustable rate loans and so on. If we know that, then we can get into, we could try to back into the amount that we're going to be financing. And we can do that a couple different ways if you're using Excel, one way you can do this is you've probably had practice with this payment calculation right here to calculate the payment. Because usually we would say, okay, I know what the loan balance is and I know what the rate is and I know the period so I'm gonna calculate the payment. So most people might have their first understanding of this payment. If you look at the little calculation down below and we will do this in Excel if you wanna practice it in Excel but just a quick recap, if you look at the payment calculation down below, really what we're trying to back into is the loan balance which is represented here by the present value. So you could say, okay, what if I do a calculation for the missing variable, which is the present value and that's one way you could get directly there. If you didn't know that, you can also use a tool which is called goal seek. So you might say, hey, look, I'm just gonna guess what the loan amount is, let's say 100,000 up top and then you might do your calculation here, your normal payment calculation that you know and then adjust your loan using trial and error or using a tool in Excel called goal seek to basically find the proper number. So that might look something like this, you'd have your normal payment calculation, the rate would be the rate which would be this 9%, that's a yearly rate, we want a monthly rate. So we divide it by 12 comma the number of periods, the number of periods would be 25, it's not a 30 year loan, we're saying it's a 25 year loan, that's years we want months, so multiply times 12 and then comma the present value, the thing we're looking for, we're gonna pull from this cell which we might start off just putting 100,000 in and then if we put that in there, we'll come up to a number that is not matching this 860 and then we can do trial and error, we can just adjust this number until we get to the 860 and there's a tool to do that automatically in Excel called goal seek, which is a good tool to recognize. Or of course we can just say, hey, look, that present value calculation, why don't I just solve for the present value? Is there a function in Excel that I could just do the present value which will basically get the loan amount? There is of course, and so we could do the present value calculation, which would be the present value of the rate, the 9% divided by 12 comma the number of periods, 25 years times 12 to get to the months and then comma and then we want the payment which is gonna be the 860 to determine the payment and that once again gets us to the 102 479. So you would assume that if they're saying, if we're thinking the financial institution is willing to apply 860 for us to apply to the loan payment, how much they think we could afford to pay on a monthly basis, you would think maybe they would be willing to finance us the 102 479 based on the 9% loan if we assume a 25 year loan, which it might be more standard to use a 30 year loan, but we'll keep the 25 year. So now we wanna think, okay, well, if I know that, if I know how much they're willing to finance us, how much home could we purchase? Because, and we could say, well, how much down payment do I have to put down if we assume the standard down payment classically is 20% and it could change because you, and you would think that it would be standard over time, but we've had time periods where they took the down payment basically to zero, which seems crazy because of government intervention and financial institutions doing weird things and different loan structures and whatnot. So you could see that kind of vary going up and down, but if you take the standard classic 20% down and you're gonna finance 102 479, that's how much loan you're gonna take out, you could take, all right, the percent financed would be one or 100% minus the 20%, that means we're gonna finance 80%. So we're gonna put down 20%, we're gonna finance 80%. So that would mean then that if I took this 102 479 divided by 0.8 or 80%, we would get the affordable home amount of the 128 99 about. Now that calculation might not look a little as standard, so you might wanna just check your number. I might say, okay, let me, does that work? If I bought the home, if I had a home of the 128 99, and then I said I wanted to put 20% down or I had to, I got the 128 099 times the 0.2, that's gonna give us our 25 620 down payment. So then I'm gonna take the amount of the 128 099, purchase price minus the 25 620, that would mean that we would be financing getting a loan for the 102 479 amount. So that in essence is, so of course you would have to be able to afford the down payment too, and then be able to get the loan, the financing of the 102 479 in order to possibly get the home of the 128. So that's the general idea. So sometimes it could be useful to try to think from a financial institution perspective and say, here's my income that I'll have to give them, most likely to verify, here's their heuristic, here's their rate that they use and what does that entail to determine how much they're willing or they think that we can afford. Again, we might agree or disagree with that. We could say, according to my income statement, I can afford more than that possibly, and we're gonna do that on our side, but we have to use the bank's calculations to try to think about how much they're willing to loan us. And so we might use whatever they're gonna use. I'm gonna refine it down to the amount that's applied just to the financing of the loan. And then based on that, we can then get into the amount they'd be willing to loan us given the standard loan structures of the time, which would include years, mostly 30 year loan oftentimes, if you use the most standard structure and the rates at the point in time. And then you can use that to try to think about, well, if there's a standard 20% down payment, then how much home could I purchase on it? Once you have that, then of course you can construct your amortization tables and you could build this all on an Excel worksheet that kind of ties together. You could get these amortization tables from the online resource, a table such as this. But again, I recommend doing this in Excel, if you could. And we do do a practice problem if you wanna check it out because that means that you can tie all this information to this data on the left, and then you can change this data and you can say, well, what if my income was changed or what if they changed this 38% or this nine, you could change any of the data, which will change much more easily. So the loan calculation, we got the 102 for 979, that's the amount that we're saying is the financed amount, not the home purchase price. And then if we were to try to calculate our amortization table, we would say, okay, now we've got the 102 for 79 times 9%, I think it was 0.09, that would be for a year divided by 12, so we're gonna be paying interest on the first payment of the 769. If I paid $800, 860 minus the 769, that means we're only getting the 91 decrease in the loan from that first payment, 102, 479 minus the 91, that's the 102, 388. If I go then to the second payment, you could see there's a change because of course, if I take the second payment, which is the 102, 388 times the 0.09 divided by 12, we got the 768 about. If I take the 860 minus the 768 about, now it's a 92 difference in the loan. And if I take the 102, 3102, 388 minus the 92, we get down to around the 102, 2, now you could see this difference is small here, but of course, as we go through the loan, you're gonna see this big difference and flip between the rate and the principal. And that's gonna be important if you gotta take into considerations more complex calculations with regards to taxes, for example, the end of the table will result in zero by the bottom of the table. And so if I go to the right then, we can summarize that on a year by year basis. And this is something that you can't often do as easily with the online tool. The online tool could get us here. I could say 102, 479, for example, 102, 479 in an online tool. It's a 25 year, nine. And I'm gonna say, give me the calculation. So there's the 860 amortization table and we can kind of check our amortization tables here or use this amortization table. And you could do that pretty quickly just as I threw it in there. But you can't really tie it out. Like I can't really tie it out to this whole other calculation as we did in Excel. And then if I wanna do this calculation, which I'll show you how to do in Excel, if you dattle, tie out the payments, the interest, the loan decrease, and then the loan balance, which is shown down here, 101, 336, for the end of year one, for example, on a year by year basis. That's quite helpful for us to try to determine what's gonna be the tax implications, what's gonna be the impact on the equity calculation, which is the difference between the loan amount and the value of the home, hoping that the home either stays constant at the minimum or goes up in value hopefully, but it may go down, we'll recognize that. And then the loan balance on a year by year basis down to the 25 years. You could do this with formulas. You can also do it with a pivot table. There's pros and cons. This is the same data in a pivot table format. So I highly recommend checking that out in Excel and we'll work these problems in Excel and work these two things out. And then you can use these tables to tie into more complex calculations, such as your taxes, and if you sold the home in so many years and so on, and you can also then go back to your source data if you were putting this in Excel, and if you changed your monthly income, or if you changed what the bank's number is here, if you changed your insurance or the down payment or the interest rate, if you think those things are variable, if you run different scenarios, then you can run those scenarios way easier if you set the whole thing up properly to tie into the source data.


Here also we offer a wide variety of courses under the Department of Commerce and Management. We have a Bachelor of Commerce, popularly known as MECOM. Under these we have both General and Honours courses. And under Honours courses we have like financial management, financial accounting. Then we have bank management, insurance management. We have post and management accounting. Also we have tax related papers. And we also have like human resources management. And also we have Bachelor of Business Administration known as BBA. Under which we have three specializations. They are like financial management. Then we have marketing management. Also we have human resources management. The study of commerce and management seems to be less opted by most of the students in NALA. Because they think that commerce and management is all about math. And that for me is the most important barrier that needs to be cleared. As it is much more than that. As a Thetsal Commerce and Management student I've never liked the stage to express myself. And with amazing faculties, infrastructure, the inclusion of technology and learning and various opportunities I always tend to strive for excellence. I and I Ratna Gupta have become four semesters. And I'm pursuing my Honours in Accounting and Finance here at Thetsal College. This college is one of the best colleges in Nagaland. It is advancing technology and many other co-curricular activities. Our college has many facilities to help us in our studies. We have large spaces, classroom, computer lab, large student area and a lot more. We have experienced and dedicated staff to support in college and extend our students. Now coming to my experience, still this fourth semester in Thetsal College came into the confident to express myself in front of the audience. And once you come to unite in our college there is all this infinite possibilities. There is so much to do here and it's just amazing. To add some of the departmental achievements, actually we are producing gold medalists every year. Then like some of the alumni of our departments, they are successful entrepreneurs. Some of them are in the government sectors. Some they are in the higher studies. Like some of our students they are studying in the computer institution in India. Also some they are studying abroad too. Here in Thetsal we don't only based on academic excellence in our departments, we also look at the students to grow and have overall developments. For this we have a wonderful and dedicated faculty members who is ever ready to help the students to achieve their goals. In such regular class we also have different activities that is conducted in our departments. Like we have industrial visits for the students. We have internship programs for them. We have from in-house seminars and then we have more interview and also we conduct online test for the final students to make them prepare for the competitive exams. Hi I'm Lossin Loreen. I completed my BCOM in Accounting and Finance in the year 2017 from Thetsal College and I was very fortunate to have received the Vice Chancellor of Academic Excellence Scholarship which enabled me to pursue my MBA in Finance and Investment here at Western Sydney University Australia.


Welcome everyone to Get Ready for the Storm remote event storming in action by Karan Rai and Giovanni as Prani and DTI. Without further delay over to you. Welcome to the remote event storming session. I'm Karan and Giovanni and I have them with me as my colleagues. So we're not going to bother you with introductions or save you that time. You can read about us from our profiles on LinkedIn and on on address India's pages. And we'll take you straight to what you've come here for which is to event storm. So our goal for the next one hour is to introduce you to events storming and it's core concepts. And help you get comfortable with the process so that you can also apply it with your teams and organizations. It's an emerging methodology to discover domains. And then it's a great exercise to arrive at a common point of understanding between different stakeholders. So we'll take you through only the core concepts. And then then we'll practice it together. Yes, just a little thing that we won't go in full depth in everything that what you want to achieve here is to give you enough knowledge so you can get started and you know, going more depth by yourself. Yeah. Yeah, so this is how we plan to achieve it. We'll start by spending a little bit of time on the history and core concepts and application areas. There aren't many core concepts it's very easy to adopt and that's why this approach is really easy. We will then introduce an interesting business case and we'll practice event storming together. The concepts that you that we will explain the first 15 minutes should be sufficient to help you get started. And as you work through the event storming workshop, we will also help and guide you through the process and explain detailed concepts as you come across them so so that you can understand them in a more contextual setting. Finally, after the event storming, we will regroup to discuss our key learnings and reflect on how we can build on what we have learned. We will also share links and resources so that you can refer them and continue to do your research and understand the topic better. So let's start with learning more about events storming and I'll hand over to Gio to take you through the core concepts. Okay, so as you can see from the slides is a workshop style technique to bring stakeholders together to explore complex business domains, which means in practice bringing people together that maybe know a system or need to create a system so they can talk and somehow share their knowledge and realize a common view of what the system is, or the domain is, yeah, was invented by Alberto Brandolini in 2012. And a very important aim for the technique is actually for these stakeholders to reach some form of common understanding. We'll give you examples of this as we proceed. This is how an in-person one would look, this is a very small one so you don't see any people, imagine people here talking and debating and attaching notes there. So what you don't see in the board but is important for the event storm that is a timeline on the land is so from left to right is how things happen in a timeline. So events, in fact, is things that happen to the system or things that the system does. There are many application areas so some understanding business processes always say in a big company, things get done, there are maybe silos doing bits, parts of the process and nobody knows the process in its entirety and they want to change it to make it more streamlined. In those situations stakeholders from the different silos can go to a room or a virtual one if it is remote and start using event storming to put what they know about the system. So and discuss that and sometimes debate or reach or find these agreements and then reach to a point where everybody has actually the same view of what is actually happening. Because from that point on you can you know how to streamline the system for example you can decide what actions to take to make it better. Yeah, but is also discovery for new systems and applications so you know this is something we do at launch ventures with for example startups people with a great idea, but they don't are quite unsure about you know how to proceed so they have the general abstract idea but it's like there is a need of more detail to do things. And so the event storming is a great way of exploring more details and get a better understanding on what to do. And also model complex systems and interactions as well, any kind of system. One thing that needs to be said is also it comes from the domain driven design community Alberto is part of the community and so somehow some of the, well, many of the concepts are basically mapping into sticky notes of domain driven design ideas. Yeah, the core concept is the concept of event. Yeah, an event is an event that is relevant for the domain expert and contextual for the domain that is being explored. Contextual for the domain means make sense in that particular domain is not something that necessarily make sense in more than one domain, we will see some example about that. And this an event is a verb at the past tense, you know something happened, this is to give you to put to help putting focus in the system in the way in a way that makes some sort of sense so the system has done this then what happens next is that. Let's see, start with a tiny example. So let's say some invoicing system that does some invoicing at the end of each month. So, in some way the end of the month process has been started. There is a billable amount calculated, and then it's verified and after that the most is prepared something like this but then also notice the orange notes are the events. There are these red ones that are called hotspots in this kind of notes and these ones are about comments disagreements we say, while you do this. Some people say hold on, we know that calculating this is really, you know, nobody really knows how to do that and put another billable amount well this is a very long process takes ages so and put a comment that these are actually very interesting because this could be spark conversations and maybe there is somebody in the room that actually knows how those things work and so that could be further exploration of the system to improve the situation yeah. Of course you can start like this but then you can go and add more and more details so don't be scared by by what you see here okay this is exactly what it was before but with more detail so say this yellow note is actually a person that told that does something in the system pushes a button and starts the process so basically says goes to the end of, sorry, you the EOM should have put end of month process so maybe pushes a button and end of month process starts. So one depending on has a policy on to decide which invoices which bills to do the process or the policies something says, when this happens, do that or is, even if then, basically, yeah, is to give more refinement so in this way you can have more depth into this exploration of the process. And then of course there is another system that is the billing system that what it does calculates that and then the green notice data that is the result of the calculation that is given to input to the other process that is verifying the billable amount yeah. So you see is the same thing exactly as before but with a bit more detail the emphasis here is you don't need when you do even saw me to try to do precisely each step, very defined and gone you can go in broad stroke say okay this is more or less very high level what it does now. Let's add more details in the parts in which we are really interested in. Yeah, so you can go with successive refinements if you like. Yeah. There are some key concepts so let's not spend too much time on this right now we'll use this during the workshop. So basically as you can see other concepts, we already seen that is the domain event that is an actor that is basically a person or people in general even a group of them. The system is an automated one could be an IT system could be, you know, something running on WS could be a conveyor belt bringing goods from place A to place B. A policy as I said before you know whenever X happens we do why. It's basically a conditional command decision action intent so you saw this before the person starts the end of month process issues a command to the system that starts the process yeah. The model is about data so events may actually create data that can be read by other events to perform the next steps aggregate less not spend too much time on this this is a slightly more advanced concept. I don't know if we'll manage to reach this during the workshop or not but we'll see a later point if needed and then the hotspots this is actually very interesting is everything that is a comment and uncertainty something even a conflict that is agreement. Taking these notes and putting them in the appropriate place is extremely useful for further exploration and discussion. Yeah. The concepts are linked in this way, so it kind of an actor invokes a command, for example, that is invoked on a system, a policy can involves a command basically you know when this happens do this. Now, this is as a reference, this, this reference will be useful maybe also during the workshop. Yeah. So, later on, when we start the workshop, we can answer your question about this and help you out if there are any problems. But it's basically an idea on how things connect together. The remote Evan storm now, this is what the remote Evan storm looks like this is from a real one. We've done a lunch ventures. It's like the impersonal but instead of having a whiteboard we have a we use mirror boards could be any other electronic board you have is pretty much the same now. And the only thing that you added here that you will you would use also on the impersonal is ubiquitous language is an important concept that is about when you discuss concepts and put in an event so it's important to be on the same page. It's important to avoid using different terms for exactly the same concept because this will cause confusion so every time there is a new important concept is worth actually adding that to the language and agree with the other participants what the meaning is. So everybody will actually understand what is being talked about. Yeah, this is extremely important and this will be very useful as well of course in the workshop. There are a few things to be said about the difference between, you know, being in the same room or being remote, of course, in the same room is the interaction is more natural if you like, you know, that also there are situations where there are multiple parallel conversations or the tools are lower friction everybody knows how to use sticky notes and markers. There are also some side effects of team building, you know, and there are many things that are actually quite good about being in the same room that we don't have in a remote setting, but on the other hand, when in a remote setting there are other advantages. So of course we miss the side conversations are very difficult and somehow can feel a bit more distance and often is also more tiring being on the screen for a few hours can be really really tiring as probably all of us know. Now, on the other hand, there are there is unlimited wall space. So with the brainstorming, even storming you may need a big room if you are in an office with a lot of wall space and lots of sticky notes and markets so we don't have these limitations with the remote part which means can make things a bit easier to organize from this point of view, you know, you have unlimited notes that is no need for markets and then limited wall space. Of course, there is an aspect of learning using the tools like if you're using mirror never done that before this could be, you know, you need to spend some time learning that the side conversations are much more difficult, you know, we are all in the same zoom call, and there is difficult to be, you know, in a smaller group talking so this aspect is a bit problematic and needs more deliberate facilitation as well. There is a so because of the disadvantages that is the need for the facilitators to be more present and more active. On the other hand, a big advantage and this is one of the reasons why we use this a lunch ventures and I have to say we use that this before the motive and storming was even a thing. Well before COVID times, but for the specific reasons that is no need to travel. So we have international customers. The core of our team is based in India but your customers pretty much everywhere and, you know, having to travel for an event storming session from India to the US, or to Europe or somewhere else can be expensive and also problematic to organize, you know, organizing the rooms hotels, everything. And so these for us was one of the big reasons why we use the technique and we think the steel with the even with the disadvantages we talk about is still an extremely useful technique to to use. Yeah. And yeah, I'm done with this and maybe Karen. That is the workshop. Well, I hope that provided a quick overview of events from of course energy or covered quite a few things in the interest of time you know trying to capture at least the core concepts as quickly as we could but don't don't be intimidated if it's too much. All we need to really know to get started is the event, because that's the common interface for all stakeholders everybody understands events. So, for this workshop, we thought about picking a use case a business case, which everybody hopefully is familiar with, and someone everybody's been missing quite a bit, being able to travel. So, we thought how about coming up with a business idea so let's assume all of us are entrepreneurs and we are, or we are part of an executive team, which is coming up with this new business concept of a holiday planning service. So it's a travel agency which provides end to end travel management, everything from helping people plan their itineraries to managing their bookings. There are various aspects in this business now as you can imagine that would happen so we would help, we would understand our customers requirements their preferences, their travel dates will select destinations for them matching their preferences. We'll match their budgets, we could prepare devise itineraries. And finally we help them book their travels stays transfers. So the scope is basically unless it's up to us how much we want to provide in the service. The goal of this exercise is to explore these business processes as a whole, and identify opportunities risks and ideas that will help us provide a great service. So think of it, as I said, as your business that you plan to start and what are the different processes that you will have to model if you had to provide a service like this. Maybe please join the board now so I'll stop sharing now I'll tell you what will happen next. So we'll split in a few rooms. How many of us are here and need to create the rooms. So it's, I can see so 17 participants, including us so it's like 14. Sorry, including them that the calls we are 17 which means is 12 people. Yeah, 12 attendees. I would like to join one of the rooms. Yeah, okay so I was saying, or maybe we can just go into rooms. Yeah, yeah. So I'll create two rooms now. Let me also do something else. Yeah, so if you can start exploring the ball please join there.  Yes, please. A quick reference tutorial of how to use me to effectively. Okay. I'll create the rooms and at the frame for the second team. Yeah, yeah, you can do that. I'll just share my screen and take everyone through a few notes. Okay, so this is how me to look like I hope everyone's unlocked in using the meter app, but you could be logged in using the browser, you should be able to see the same view. And you can see that you have our slides here. So there is a quick guide here so generally for events storming it's helpful if you have an external keyboard mouse and monitor. But if you don't that's okay you can still work through. These are just a few shortcuts for you to work through so that makes your makes your work easier and you can focus more on the events from rather than the tool. So adding a sticky note that's really what you need to do. So adding a sticky note is super easy so you can just press the letter and and it pops up this menu and you just press the click on wherever you want to add that note and start typing. Now if you want to copy over this event that's generally a lot easier than creating a new sticky note every time. So all you need to do is command or control D. And it just puts another sticky note right next to it in a sort of sequence, which makes it easy to also progress with events. And you just start typing. And that's how you can just continue to all I'm doing is doing command D because I have a Mac or you could do control D if you have windows. And you can continue to add events to change color just select one sticky note change the color and then if you again do control D and just continues to put sticky notes in that same color. So that's a simple that's all you really need to know. If you want to scroll through you'll probably figure out yourself but if you need to refer this or you can just scroll with your mouse across the board if you press your left click and scroll it will help you. Zoom in and yeah that's that's really that's on the shortcut so we have a practice area if you want to just try placing a few events that we have a practice area where you can spend next two to three minutes trying to place sticky notes and I can actually help you. I mean I can guide you whether you know it's it's whether you need any help or. So in this practice area you can zoom in and I'll just add my first note. And event, let's say any event. Event storm. Let's remind you try to keep your events in the past tense. There's a reason for that. Stating your events in the past tense makes it more factual more deterministic. And there is less ambiguity around it so it also helps you think about events in a way that they're more deterministic so yeah just go ahead and fire away so start adding a few events here once you feel comfortable. Once you have set up to running a set up the rooms we can start. I would say whoever ends up in room one goes to frame one and room to frame two can ask also use something is in the in the event storming is important to see each other so if you can switch the camera song that will be really useful for the exercise. This is one of the things as well. Okay. Let me. Have we got one participant that just joined. Anyway, I'll create the rooms now so I'll open an opening the rooms that will be deep in one and Karen and the other. I'm, I see the number of participants seems to be increasing so let me do something else maybe current share again the link to me to the chat because the new joiners won't have seen that. The rooms again so to include the new participants. And see. Yeah, so I said cool ends up in room one frame one in middle room to frame two and please switch the cameras on. I'm opening the rooms now. Okay. Okay, so reflections I think if you look at the board now let me let me share also my screen but you look at the board because you love to use it to let me share the screen so I can explain more easily. So, now can you see my, my, my, sorry, my screen. Now, this particular space. Yeah, with the reflections area so to give you where it is is just under the slides. So if you are on your frame on your Evan storm go up and left. And so maybe let's spend on these a couple of minutes adding stickers on what you like, compare how you work you know even storming what what you like and what you don't compare to what you do now. Yeah. And maybe even comments, if you like. Okay, so. And then we can talk a bit about the workshop experience and what you think about the technique. So I think let me see if I can set a timer to give everybody. Is that a timer in this, you know, maybe current maybe you need to set the timer I think you are the owner of the board you must have more more permissions. If you set a two minutes timer so people can add their own reflections. No worries I'm tracking it so I'll just remind everyone. Okay. So what you like what you dislike. And if you want to break the rules and put also some general comments or opinions I will allow you to do that. I'm Italian the laws are there as a general suggestion not to, to be respected. Really, I try to. Also feel free to copy some of those notes you know and paste as well don't so don't don't look at those blue and red sticky notes as the only places where to write you can copy and add more. Yeah, don't feel limited like that. So Johnny and current I mean where can I find more. You know, things to read more on this. Look at my screen. There is a slide with the references there. Some references so one thing that we'll do is we'll export the entire workshop board and make it available to you all. Yeah. Hopefully will will be useful. Yeah. This will also contain something related to how to run the workshop. I don't think we could go on. You can see the slide just before this in references. This is one below references there is a reference plan. So, um, this is a general guide that we sort of found useful and it also borrows from guidance that Alberto who started this methodology. I had suggested. So you can look at this and I can take you quickly through this. So we started with an initial event some of it you'll be able to relate to within perform an event storm. We do an explicit walkthrough once the event storm is completed we verify whether the events are consistent and there aren't any which we're missing and then we try and narrate backwards what narrating backwards means is we look at an event for instance payment completed. We have events that are essential to ensure that this event we can arrive up to this event so we kind of go backwards and see what payment completed did we have a corresponding event which led to this point. Did we have that so so that's what we do and then we have values to keys where we can. This is the extension where we add sticky notes which indicate what are the points in the event from where we are generating value and we are taking away value what are more less efficient approaches more efficient ways of doing things and then we have arrow voting where we look at hotspots and we we align on what are the most important hotspots to address first everybody does. A simple arrow based putting they put arrows on the hotspots that they feel are most important and then the ones the hotspots which have the maximum arrows, we go to those and start discussing those. And then finally from there we have an emergent domain model that starts emerging and so we also have a guideline. Sorry to your you're on mute. I muted myself and then I started talking maybe was a good thing that I muted myself. The high level point of view what what you do the event storm is kind of you describe a domain or a particular process scenario and then the hotspots and some things in the board will give you or with the arrow voting and indication where you want to focus basically in a complex situation you want you don't want to address everything at the same time. Yeah, there are some things that are more important than others to address you decide which ones to address first. And this is also in a situation where you model a new product for a startup you know, this is how the things should work. Yeah. Okay, this is what we want to go how do we get there now well, let's have a look at where we can start here. Yeah. Okay, and then start from that particular point basically don't try to do everything at the same time, which is a general advice. Yeah, so this is basically what you do. Yeah. Right. Thank you. How are we going with the time current. Yeah, we're ready. Okay. Okay, let's give that that is visiting visionary I don't know the name that is still writing what this like. So let's wait until this person finishes and then maybe we can, we can have a quick conversation. Yeah, what do you think. And then we can just take another two minutes. Yeah, has any questions. We. Yes, and we can take those. Also we've got six minutes to to the end. So maybe we can current what do you think we can go to the stickers and then if there are questions people can ask in the meantime. Yeah. Yeah, sure. I think let's, let's start with what we just liked. Yeah, this, the first one is what was there to dislike. Okay, but this one is interesting about the color sticky references so actually that I agree with that complication I myself and when I go with more than three colors have a problem. One thing that I suggest is also because there are also color blind blind people that may have serious trouble with the different colors is where you can also put markers on the notes in terms of you know, and a for an actor I see for a something like this is not that has to be an A or a C but symbols. Yeah, that people can understand so the color whoever understands color will be fine but whoever doesn't will be fine as well. That that's a suggestion that I gave anything to add current team. Yeah, I agree with that. The colors were generally the origin of these colors was because they were they were matched the actual sticky notes and practice the other kind of colors that sticky notes coming. But there is no rule to it. So you said I think that's a good, good idea we could, we could very well put acronyms on top and use it that way. Yeah, that's because that the colors is a common problem. Yeah. And. Okay, so let's see if there is any anything say good insight inputs from all, which are exactly that the purpose of these having say called that's together. And so I think all the things we discussing to be things that people like. Now I've got a question for you so got a few minutes. Are you going to use it at work. Do are you going to give it a go. Do you think you want to try that wants to answer this. You know, wants to answer except from Karen and deeply of course. Yeah. Except me also I just already shared that I'm going to use it next. Yes. Anybody else. Yes. Yes, I definitely plan to do this but I got I already have some ideas, kicking in. Yeah, of course, what we recommend, we recommend is also to look at the references because today, you know, due to time constraints we couldn't go in depth in all the concepts there are some other concepts like the aggregate or pivotal event or other things that we discussed today. But I think our view is that what you've got here is sufficient for you to get started in a good way. Yeah. So we don't already with the things you you know today, you can go a long way with modeling, lots of your domains and processes. Yeah. Just to add to that, what we've also experienced in the past is that this has also turned out to be a great exercise to discover ideas. So it's not always necessary that you need to use this to model technical designs. We could also use it for just thinking about business processes in general. We've often had situations where we've worked with people clients partners who who really found this useful to understand how they should run their business. So that was a great revelation so even before getting into any kind of implementation or implementation. Yeah, I think and the another point that I would like to add is I think, like what current mentioned that they have identified like how they should run their business. I think they've also identified sometimes like the major gaps that their current business process had. And they actually like during the event storming session they actually got various ideas also that how they could improve it because from day to point be like everything was in their mind but when they were putting the stickies it actually became a lot clearer for them also. These are the gaps in our in their business processes as well. So yeah, I think yeah after like the full event storm workshops, like there are definitely some really interesting outputs and definitely some really interesting insights for the business stakeholders and for the technical teams, they definitely come out. Yeah, it's really like interesting to be part of these workshops. One of the things that I feel I could use it is, you know, and I've mentioned it also maybe to explore on how maybe value stream mapping or process mapping could be done. I think Karen and deeply had mentioned that there are certain terminologies which are different for different people. But through this exercise we could come on the same, because different stakeholders might have different definition of the same process or work items so that also through this exercise it will help to get everybody on the same page. Yeah. That's definitely the case I work on systems with banks where they had even in the database for six different representations of time. Now, really different so you can imagine what happens when you do that or they call the same thing like transaction contract deal and you know for five times for exactly the same thing these things reflected in the software itself, which meant maintaining the code was hell. Yeah, because it was very difficult to understand everything what what you are touching. Yeah. Okay, I think time is up. Just waiting for it. That brings us to the end. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Karen. Thank you. Thank you. We've had an amazing session. There were a lot of insights takeaways. We could hear from the participants and all of you participants you were an amazing bunch of participants with a lot of live interaction and engagement. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much.