I'll go ahead and start the meeting. I'm not sure if you all want to hop off. If you do. If you can also promote Audrey as host as well, just so that if for some reason I am to drop off, we don't. We don't have anything. Okay. So with that, um, happy to take a motion on the agenda. The only thing that I'll say is we do have public forum. At the beginning for general discussion, um, but I'm also planning on folks since I think we'll start to have more presentations. Um, I'm going to adopt a model used by more of the committee members. By some of the council committees where folks can listen to the presentation on the item first, and then they can do. Um, public forum. Um, and. Yeah. So with that, I'm happy to take a motion on the agenda. I motion we adopt agenda. How's this. By commissioner. Do I have a second? Seconded by commissioner Hart. Any discussion. All those in favor. I. Any opposed. That passes unanimously. The next item on our agenda is the minutes from January 5th. Welcome emotion on that. Go ahead. Commissioner Hart. Sorry about that. That's fine. I'll second Milo grant. Commissioner grants. Commissioner grant. Seconded by commissioner Hart. Any discussion. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed. That passes unanimously. The next item on our agenda is the minutes from January 15th. I motion to adopt the minutes from January 15th. Commissioner. Good much. Seconded by commissioner Hart. Any discussion. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed. That also passes unanimously. Thank you. Thanks everyone. We're using a slightly new format where I'll be facilitating the public forums as well as. The meeting in general. So right now there are a few people. There's one person actually who emailed me that they wanted to speak. You do not have to do that. We will let people speak in general. You can speak now. If you want to speak, or there are two items on our agenda, which is the Tolita consultants and the equitable sharing report back, or you can wait until after you've heard the information that's going to be presented on those items. If you want to speak so that you have as much knowledge as we do when you speak. So if anybody wants to talk before the presentations, you can go ahead and raise your hand now. Yep. Yes, grace grace just asked grace file asked if she could go after the presentations and that's absolutely fine. Anyone who would like to speak now. If not, then we'll turn to item. 3.01. Which is our Tolita consultants kickoff. I think I actually told them to be here at six because I was expecting some amount of public forum. So we may have. We may have. Them not on yet. So I wonder if the committee would be amenable to go into 3.02 and then coming back to 3.01. Sheridan, how do you feel about that? That's fine. That's fine. Okay. Do you need a motion? No, I don't need a motion. I don't need a motion. I don't need a motion. I don't need a motion. I don't need a motion. May as well since we adopted an agenda. Okay. So I move that we take. Agenda item 3. Oh, two. At this time ahead of 3.01 in the interest of efficiency. Fantastic. Motion made by commissioner Hart. Is there a second? I'll second that. Seconded by commissioner Gommage. All those in any discussion. Okay. Thank you. Hi. I any opposed. That passes unanimously. And then. I'll hand the floor over to you to give us a summary of what you learned. Yeah. So I went back through the meeting where we had talked about going to. Get some answers back as you will recall. So I went back to the meeting and listened to the chief and we had questions about it. So I went back to the meeting and listened and I took away four questions from that. In my listening. And so that's what I tried to do was get the answers to report back to this group on those. So one of the requests was an inventory of the assets. These, I don't know if we put a timeframe on that. I don't know if we could provide that because it wasn't his data. He'd been provided it. And I did speak with the individual at the U.S. Attorney's office who's going to provide that. He would have given it to me today, but it wasn't complete. It only had. One of the agencies. So he wanted to get the complete set of agencies. That would be working on asset forfeiture. So I will share that upon receipt. And then we'll be back to the next day or so. So it's the information that went to. Keep me read, but a little. More complete. And it asks if we can be provided the convictions related to the forfeited assets. I'm not sure if it's going to reflect like that. So I think we'll just have to see what we get for data and go from there. I don't want to speak for folks, but it seems like there was a concern about. Forfeiture related to personal drug use. So personal, you know, possession. And that that doesn't happen at the federal level in Vermont. They don't. But that's not something that they have ever done according to this individual. They couldn't. They would be. You know, They would be charged with. Charging or seeking forfeiture based on. An intent to distribute. And they, if they find someone with an amount of drugs, that's. For personal use that wouldn't be something that they could prove an intent to distribute. So that's the information I got on that is that. That is not something at the federal level that they're doing. In a case. That is where the. The public conviction is overturned. So there are different kinds of asset for future. At the federal level. So there's administrative for future. And that is where an individual, it's sort of this presumption of abandonment. And so. The government gives notice that they have property and plan to. Provide property. That is the state of the art of public interest. And that individual has a certain number of days to file something. And so. Folks could challenge that on the grounds of improper notice. That would be the grounds for administrative for future on criminal forfeiture. You have to. You have a criminal forfeiture action. And you have. The action against the property is simultaneous. have the trial on the forfeiture. So if that is overturned, the conviction, then you would have to retry the forfeiture as well. They're parallel tracks. This is what I'm understanding from the individual who I was consulting. And the third way to forfeit is civil forfeiture and they didn't have a single one. That would be where you've got property but no individual that you're going after. So if they seize assets at the airport, for example, and they're not related to an individual, that would be a civil forfeiture. And I'm told there were zero cases last year. And then I think there was a question if the Burlington Police Department wanted to decline in a given case, could they? And the answer is that they could in a given case and it wouldn't jeopardize the program. So in order to have equitable sharing, they would have to file an application in every case. You have to file an application so they could choose not to file an application if there were concerns about the crime or something of that sort. So the answer is they can participate and don't have to seek forfeiture, rather equitable sharing across the board. So I think that's the information that this group was seeking. And obviously I don't have the data, but it's coming. Great. Thank you, Sherene. At this time, if anybody wants to speak in the public wants to speak on this item specifically, we won't do it back and forth, but you can feel free to raise your hand, speak on this item. And then I'll let commissioners ask additional questions and discuss anything that came up in public forum. So if anybody in the public would like to speak, feel free to raise your hand. Seeing none, I'll go ahead and let any of the commissioners have any questions for Sherene answer that now. Or not answer that, but ask those now. Hi, this is Milo Grant. I have a quick question concerning of the civil forfeitures. So you're saying that Vermont has not taken any funds from civil forfeitures and that that is something we can verify? Nope, I didn't say that actually. Milo, I said last year they didn't have any civil forfeitures, but they have one right now. That is a potential one, but last year they didn't do any civil. I think that's the rarest of the cases for the state of Vermont, but not federally. I'm talking federal. So equitable sharing is in the federal realm. I'm not aware. I just I don't know about equitable sharing and on the state level. So that's strictly what we're talking about as far as I understand this federal. OK, thank you. Any other questions from other commissioners? Sherene, a question for me, I guess, how? I don't know if you when you said that the information is just because it's been a while for us. I haven't revisited that conversation on the data that we're expecting. Is it just a complete list of all of the forfeitures over the past X amount of time? Is it a year or five years? It will be several years and it's it goes up through September of 2020. And it's all cases having to do with City of Burlington, Burlington Police Department. Asset sharing cases. OK, I'm sorry, equitable sharing cases. And then you said that you're not sure that we can expect to see what convictions or if there were convictions related to the asset forfeiture. So I'm guessing I guess I'm asking, like, what are the right that we do? What I'm told is that this doesn't distinguish. So what I was explaining before are those three types of forfeiture cases. And what the individual explained to me is this the data that they have doesn't reflect whether it was forfeited through an administrative forfeiture or civil. I haven't seen the data yet, so I can't speak to. I know we'll be able to tell if it's a case related to drugs from what he said, because you'll be able to see what was seized. And I think that, you know, the. The biggest volume is that is is would be drug cases. But I don't have. I haven't seen it yet because I just got the permission and he when he was going to send it to me, discovered that it didn't have all of the agencies and was going to rerun it. Great. And then. The. Shoot, I had one more question. Oh, yeah, the drug use when you say that it's not impersonal, I actually don't know the Vermont law in this. Like, do you did you get into what the differentiators between what's considered personal use and what's considered so keep in mind this is federal court, right? And so you're going to and I'm not a criminal defect. I'm not a criminal attorney. I don't I don't litigate.  But typically those lower level offenses are going to be are going to be offenses you're going to see in state court. I wish that Franklin were here. He could speak better to this. But from what I understand, they're not going to be using this on a simple possession case. This individual said they have never done that and wasn't even sure if they could use, if they could seek asset forfeiture up based on a simple possession case. Thanks, but certainly what I did take from it was that you know, they are individual cases and so one could have a policy where as a police department, they're not seeking equitable sharing based on certain criteria. I do know one of its uses is for firearms. That was one of the big uses when it's through the ATF. Any other questions from any other committee members? And then if not, is there any action that folks want to take or comments, general thoughts? So I will I presume I'll get this to you in the next couple of days. And certainly if folks had questions, you could email me those and I could try to get answers before our next meeting. Thanks, I appreciate that. And then I guess based on the individual case, I wonder if there's yeah, I guess on that last point on you can decline any given case on equitable sharing. I wonder if the police commission at some point will want to make a policy on what kinds of cases and under what circumstances. I think I mean, you'll need the data before you right to get an understanding of what the realm of possibility is. But I feel like that might be an appropriate use of you all. Not you all's, but all of yours. Right. And I think Milo any further discussion on this like Milo has her hand raised. Oh, yep. Milo, go ahead. Hi, thank you. I just wanted to say my main concern was around this using money from civil cases where there were never there was never any proof of criminal activity or any charges brought. And it's interesting to hear that there weren't any last year, but I do know that nationally there were a number of lawsuits filed. Some of them class action lawsuits, especially related to funds that were taken away from people that were flying. They were at airports and for a variety of reasons were traveling with large amounts of cash that were even though they would explain why they were traveling with the large amounts of cash. It was deemed suspect funds were taken away from them. And even though no charges were ever filed against them, never formally accused of any type of crime, it was just their story sounded suspect and they weren't getting their money back. And so a lot of people had to spend money participating in these class action suits in order to get their funds back that were rightfully theirs or relatives. And so my my concern is I do understand that funds we do get by and large are a result of cases involving bad people. And we use those funds for good things, but just from a a more it's a moral issue for me to make sure that we are not participating in anything that could take funds away from someone who is in a situation where they had cash or property taken away from them.  Thank you. Thanks, Mila. Any further discussion or thoughts then with that, I'll close that item and move us back to three point zero one with Tolita consultants. And I would just ask that if you're with Tolita, if you can raise your hand so I can promote you to a panelist. I see Charis. Hi, Charis. So you're the only one I've promoted.  I just put my name, how it's pronounced right next to that spell. Oh, is it Charis? Yes, Charis or Charis. Either way, it's fine. Charis, Charis, Charis. Great. You have facial hair now, so I still recognize you, though. That's great. Do I need to promote anybody else from your team? Team, it would be great. There is seven of us, but I just want to quickly show you their faces if that's OK with with the committee. Yeah, please. However, you don't necessarily just wait for them to begin. It's up to you as they trickle in. I can do an intro. However you want to handle it, you've got some chunk of time so if you folks are here, I'm happy to promote them and have them introduce themselves or. So I see Liza's here. You see that. Is Liza under a different name? I'm not seeing them. Yeah, I like this on the screen now. So it's OK. Can you bring in David in the meeting, David Mankey? And I'm just going to put it in the chat box. OK, David. You got David and then Ella. When here, who else? OK, Edward and then can we bring Sarah Singer-Wilson? Sarah. OK, Ma, can you check up to me is here yet? So if you see the need for tiller, that would be great. Great. And with that, I'll hand it off to you all to use this time, however you want. Right. So first of all, thank you. Thanks for. Arranging the time. I know that there are quite. There's about 10 committee members juggling schedule and whatnot. And we did send out a. Work plan draft. And we're going to show the graphic summary of the work plan draft today. And it is a lot less overwhelming to look at than the document I sent out through Audrey Oliver. And thank you, Audrey, for setting that up with that. I'm going to just ask. Our team. If you want to, if any of our team member. Wanted to just. Tell. The location, the state in which you are in. In the chat box, that would be great. And if I could also ask the committee member, I know that some of you are council members in different districts. But if you could put that, that would be great. I'm not sure police commissioners were appointed through different districts, but whatever that may be. So we just want to have an idea of our physical location. Are we okay to be understood? Yeah, let's do it verbally just because the public record of this is on channel 17. So there is no chat that. Oh, okay. That is good to know. Okay. So I'm going to start with that then. Can I just start with our project manager, Karima. The states have your location. Hi, I'm Karima Edwards and I'm located in winter, hype in Florida. Sounds good. Can we have Liza go for the state in which you're located. Liza seems to be frozen. So, Ella. Liza. To Quilla, Washington. Washington state. And can I have David to go next? Liza's trying to get back in. Hi, my name is David Mankey and I'm located in Washington state as well. Right. Sarah. Hi, good afternoon. Good evening. I'm Sarah singer Wilson and I'm based in Oregon. And if I could have a Tiffany is here and then Casey, Tony Lee could be led in that would be great too. Okay. We're just mentioning which state we're located in. Hi, good evening. I am located in Savannah, Georgia. And Tiffany, your voice is really low. Is that pretty low for the panel as well? Yeah. Can you. Yeah.  Okay. My apologies. I am from Savannah, Georgia. Perfect. Casey. We're just introducing our name and then the state in which we're located. Is it my turn? I. Yes. I got bumped out and then I had to get back in. I'm sorry. I'm back. I'm Liza. I'll rename myself. I always pop up as Keras. My other twin. I'm coming. I'm from Washington state. Very happy to be here. And hopefully I am here for good. There you go. It's Casey, Tinelli on the screen. Casey sent me a message saying they can't unmute themselves. Okay. So Casey is located in Washington as well. And so she will show up. I'm just going to light the candle because I am a musician and a singer. And this is how we track them. And it also helps. If you get distracted. To just. Gather ourselves back into the room. Many of us are from different location. What that also means is that we bring. Diverse lived experiences. Specifically in regards to our criminal criminal justice system or that. It's also. You know, racial equity initiative. Also with economic upward mobility. We have international experience as well as. Local and statewide nationwide experiences. Although we came. As. Professionals. We also recognize that we are not located. In Vermont. Vermont. Burlington, Vermont. And we just want to state that that we know our limitation. We also know our limitation that we are meeting in two dimensional screens and we are not with you in person. It pains me every time to look up how beautiful Burlington, Vermont is and to know that I am not going to be able to be very in person. At least, you know, for the next few months, right? And so we also want to name that limitation. And my heart well. Is up with joy to see how many people are also participating. I see. They are attendees who are joining in and watching this. And so I hope that all these attendees who are not on the screen will continue to participate in this process. Because at the end of the day, Talitha, we are facilitators. It is your needs, your visions and your dreams. And your participation is what's going to stick. Okay. And so with that, we would like to pull up. The understanding of the charge that the committee has. Given to us and chosen us to take part. So I'm going to share my screen. Council member. We are facilitators. It is your needs, your visions and your dreams. And your participation is what's going to stick. Okay. So I'm going to share my screen. Council member. Hi, tower. Can you allow me to share my screen? I think you have. So I will do that. Great. And also just to answer your question while we're, while you're pulling that up. So there's two of us on the call right now, three on the 10 person committee who are city counselors. So right now that's Perry Freeman and myself. And I'm going to share my screen. And I'm going to share my screen. And I'm going to share my screen. And the other seven members of the committee, which right now is.  So the name's Milo Grant, Randall Hart. Sureen. Part. Sorry, I'm not saying everyone to boo Gommash. And a few others, their police commissioner. So they're not there. They're not there. They're not there. They're not there. They're not there. They're not there. They're not there by the city council and some, I think with mayor presiding. So. So, you know what, actually, I. Also want to have the commissioners and also council members to introduce yourself. And I, I know that a lot of. You know, I've served on a commission before and David. Mankey also serve on a commission. Our information is public record anyway. So if you feel comfortable to mention the ward or the district committee. Okay. So can, can we have a council member? Hi, tower go first and then invite the next person. Yeah, my name is right. Tower. I'm the ward one city councilor, which is in the East district. And I'll hand it off to Perry Freeman. Thanks. Sorry. I was trying to. Unmute myself. I'm Perry Freeman city councilor. For the central district. So that makes up wards two and three. Okay. Okay. So that makes up wards two and three. It doesn't. Give any more voting power. It's just a different sort of jurisdiction, so to speak. And I live in the old North end of Burlington. And I'm going to pass it to commissioner harp, because I think we got skipped before. In the initial round of who's here from commission. So. There we go. Yeah, I don't know that I got skipped, but thank you anyways. Randall harp. I am a police commissioner. The commissioners are not appointed by Ward, but I do live in. Resident ward three. And I'll pass it to chair. Thank you. I'm a Javelani, Hamas. I answered a Javelani or Chbou and I reside in Ward five, which is the Southeast district. So I South East Ward of Burlington. Sorry, Southwest, my policy, Southwest. Correct. Yes. Southwest. My apologies. And up next, I'll hand it to the vice chair of the police commission. Sure. Hi, as Jabu said, I'm sure in heart and I am in ward seven. That is in the north. That's the northern most part of the city. And I think. Milo, you are up. Hi, my name is Milo Grant and I serve on the police commission and I live in Ward three. Yeah. Who's next? Nobody. Okay. All good. Okay. So the only screen we don't have. Okay. I just wanted to jump in. We're missing three, one city councilor Franklin Paulino, who's in the north district. And then three commissioners. You all, I do not know their last name is Stephanie. We know and Karen. And I do not know where in the city they are from. Okay. And so we have two people from Toledo taking notes. Okay. So we have two people who are finding it super distracting to have all the Toledo member on the screen. Will you raise your hand? I will have them just. Turn off their camera. If not. Do you mind if we all be together? You know, if we're doing this together, we would have been in person. So come on. Good. All right. Okay. So to lead the team. Let's just stick around. Okay. Okay. So we have a graphic document. And if you want to put. Zoom on speaker. View. That would be helpful. The only downside is that you'll have to take a look at me. And at the corner, look at this little graphic. I'm going to ask you another question. Is there any comment on the project. Both Lisa and Karima. To let the committee know about the process. So here we are. At the start. And the two prom charge that we have before us, we meaning to lead the team. Before us is to obtain public input on the needs and vision and values. And then to suggest a design or program for an ongoing input regarding police operations. before us. And at any given time I'm going to stop sharing the screen and at that point feel free to ask questions, okay? Right now I'm sharing the screen so it's really hard for me to know who has questions unless you unmute yourself. Now, task two. So in our proposal we say task one, task two. In task two we're going to be facilitating two workshops. We understand that they're 33 key stakeholders identified in the addendum or what is that called document G, addendum G I think. And so at 33 people in one room, 33 groups in one zoom room or even in in-person room is too much so we're going to break it out into two. Again to gather input on vision and identify needs and met needs and gaps and identify preferred communication channel to disseminate the next public survey method. And we are proposing that we would like to get that rolled out sometime from, you know, starting from February 1st to March 5th. So March 5th is our end date for that. Now step three is public survey, right? So we're going to gather the information that we have gathered here in task two is going to shape and inform the questions we will be asking to the public in the public survey. And of course the written methodology and sample questions are going to be submitted to the Joint Committee for input in that process. Now, task three is the most, I would say has the most layers in this work plan. So we will have after the survey which we're tentatively planning on launching it on March 10th through the 21st. And I say the word tentative with a big giant bolded asterisk because depending on the number of respondents and the partnerships we have, we may extend or we may not extend. Okay, so I want to say that and be recorded. Task three A after the public survey is going to be the tabulation and synthesis. Again tentative date will be March 22nd through the 29th. And then after that our, so this part, you know, Talitha is going to be working hard. We have our vendors who help us out with qualitative and quantitative tabulation and synthesis. And after that we're going to thematize into what our learnings are. And I try to stay away from using the word findings. I'm going to use the word learnings, right? What are we learning from the community from the targeted engagement as well as universal public engagement, right? And after we have thematized our findings, I am putting this as an optional phase for the Joint Committee to decide. Oftentimes we will find that the themes are super clear and the themes give us the direction to move forward. But sometimes we need to come back to the key stakeholders and say, hey, you know what, this is what we are learning. We want to meet with you, interview you for clarification. So I put that as an optional part. Talitha as a group, we are not that, what did I say in the thing? Let me see, let me use this thing. Focus group is not our preferred method. And I can tell you about what it is. But studies have shown over and over again that the effectiveness of focus group is diminishing. And I can tell you the reasoning behind it, but that's not the reason why we're here. But individual interviews is something that we would prefer. And it could be language specific, it could be cultural group specific, it could be interest specific individual interviews can be done. Okay, so now let's go to task four. Depending on whether or not option three C is selected, we can move on to task four, which is gathering all that once again, and then synthesizing and start drafting, which we are calling our final product as equitable engagement and participation initiative. And we put that in, we are calling it EEPI, equitable engagement and participation initiative. So we're going to have a draft and that point we're going to check back in with joint committee again, gather input, again, we're calling it a draft, so that we can do our final presentation to the joint committee once again. Again, you will notice that there are no specific dates attached to task four and five, because there is the optional thing that's going on on task three. However, we would like to note that the contracted services, the contract ends for this project on January 30th, 2021. So I am, if I need to keep the graphic summary up, I'm happy to do so. Would that be helpful if, yes, Karima? Just really quick, I just wanted to correct that it's June 30th, 2021. What did I say? January. Oh yeah, June 30th, 2021. Hey, at least I said 2021, okay. So why don't I pull the screen back up? If it's not okay, raise your hand. Okay, so I'm going to pull the screen back up. And I'm going to take question from the joint committee now. Commissioners, I, because it, I won't be able to see you raise your hand unless you do it as a because the, actually, maybe if I can ask if we don't have it up just so I can see commissioners. Okay, let's do that. So why don't, yeah. And not seeing any hands yet. I'll jump in with the first question, which is, in the RFP, we had really laid out that there would be kind of a kickoff and a close-up meeting with some of the NGOs. And in between, we're hoping to have some more interactive ways for the public in general to engage than just a survey. And I'm not seeing that represented in your plan. So, yeah. Yeah, so that is the, the reason we don't put it in our plan is we have not have any type of interaction with the community partners yet, right? We can presumably say we're going to be launching this and XYZ platform in this farmer's market, but we want the stakeholders, the community groups, to inform us. So in our task two, we specifically say that we're going to engage in smaller workshop. And during that workshop is also when we're going to tell them to identify the channels in which we can disseminate the public survey. And survey is not only online. It could be them inviting us to do a group survey like Boys and Girls Club. I saw if they have an online after-school program that they want to invite us, we could also go in and have that. But we want the community partners to invite us in, unless you have any other suggestions. Yeah, I think it would be nice if there were at least one meeting that was planned. Is it a little bit more of an open forum to gather kind of more? Okay, like an open house? Yeah. And so I think having the, I mean, I know that we definitely plan to have the ones with the community partners, but for folks who don't identify with any of those groups or associated with any of those groups having a way to engage that's beyond a survey. That's a great feedback. So in this process, you know, in this little bubble, switch bubble, would you feel comfortable to have an open house? Sorry, so I'm definitely thinking in task two, I'm having our time. Okay, task two. Okay. So host one or two workshops. So sometime between, what about sometime after March 5th to have an open house? After meeting the key stakeholders? Or do you want to do it parallel? So again, I'm kind of going back to the proposal, because that was what we had thought through. So I did definitely think having the initial, having meetings, however many meetings we need to have to have the initial meeting with one representative from each one of those community groups that we identified. And then having based on that some initial questions or feedback or, you know, some framework to engage with the community more broadly. So having it then and then having kind of a wrap up meeting closer to the end with validating some of your initial findings with that initial group as well. Does that, sorry, that's a lot of groupings that don't have names, but I hope that makes sense. That's great. That's why we have this meeting. So again, you'll see that we're going to send, this is a draft, right? So we're going to send a revised plan back to the Joint Committee. Commissioner Harp, I saw your hand up. Yeah, thanks. So this is following up with Councillor Hightower. So I mean, so it seems to me as though, and correct me, Zariah, if I'm wrong. So it seemed to me as though one of the questions was, is there a way to make sure that the modality that we're using to get a committee input is not just something kind of a passive way of receiving information through a survey, but it's more interactive, it's more allows people to engage in these conversations. So that seems like it would be, I think maybe it was, it was task three, but as the bubble at five o'clock on the chart, that was when we were talking, we're specifically talking about public input. And so it seemed to me as though part of the question was, is there a way of ensuring that public input is something which allows for more interaction and more ways, you know, more modalities than just kind of community members passive receiving survey and communicating information back to you or to us that way. Right. Correct. Yes. I like that. Five o'clock. Multimodal. And that's another one. Yes. And any other comments? Feedback? Procedurally, I also want to apologize. I meant to go to public forum before the commissioners had a chance to ask questions. So again, with public forum, we're not going to go into a back and forth, but both we and I assume Talitha will write down any questions that folks have and try to answer them all at the same time. So apologies to members of the public who are hoping to ask specific questions on this item. If anyone has any specific questions for the Talitha consultant kickoff, given that you've seen the presentation now, I'm happy to have folks raise their hand and ask any of this or comment. It doesn't just have to be questions, questions, comments, general public forum, not seeing anyone raising their hand per se. I'll hand it back to commissioners with questions and comments. Hi. This is Commissioner Grant. So I like the idea meeting with stakeholders first, and then possibly having multiple meetings at various times so that we make an effort to accommodate various schedules that people have. So maybe not just only something in the evening, but if we can be open to say something on a Saturday morning or a Saturday afternoon, just having a different times that, as I said before, accommodate more schedules. And then I'd like to, I'm going to reach out to some people who, they're parts of our community that are really disengaged right now, and we really need to pull them in. And so I'd like to provide that, see if we can get some feedback. It's obviously because of COVID, there are certain limitations that we, what we have, as we've previously discussed, but just ways to, even if we can do small safe gatherings or distribute materials to people that might be open for that. I don't know, I've got to kind of think safely, but think of some more ideas so that we are able to pull in people that, quite frankly, just lost faith and to find a way to make sure that they know that this is opportunity to have their voices and concerns heard and taken into consideration. Thank you. Thanks, Milo. Another question that I have, and I apologize to members of the public. I was hoping that the exact timeline that Talitha sent to us would be on board docs. It is not, I'm happy to share my screen, but I think it would be hard to show the whole thing because it's five pages, but I'll, oh yeah. And it's broken down into week and days. But we'll have it up for next time. I promise that, especially if there's a, both this version and also especially if there's a revised version, I'm okay with the timeline as a whole. I obviously wish that all of it were faster, but that's always going to be true of any client. I do think that I guess in the, in week two, you have study of key stakeholders. And I'm curious as to what that exact item means. Yeah, yeah. No, that's, that's, so what it is is we have a list of 33 groups that the Joint Committee has identified. We're not from Burlington. We don't know the mission vision. And so we are studying the, that's what it means is for us to learn about what each CBOs, community-based organizations or nonprofits, what they do. That's great. I'm glad you all are engaging with that. And yeah, that that's being done. I also want to say that on our side, my staff, Audrey specifically, who's on the call, has been reaching out to the organizations and finding who they want their point of contact to be and getting started on that. I'm a little afraid that we're not engaging with them until week six. I think I know that you all need time to kind of get up to speed and understand the Burlington context. I don't want to throw you in too early, but I'm also afraid of us. I feel like to some extent, the Joint Committee at least has been a little bit navel gazing in terms of thinking through things on our own. And I think it would actually help you a lot to engage with that group a little sooner. And then I think it'll help you develop your plans that you're planning on doing in some of the later weeks a little bit more to have more context for it. And so I would encourage you to not do that in week six and to push that up. So I just want to clarify, we've already been studying this group. So maybe it's just a matter of how I put it. It's in week two actually. Study of key stakeholders is in week two. And so we've already started that process. But you're right to mention that our invitation for the workshop won't be until week six. Right. And I'm wondering if... Bump it up. Yeah. Okay. We have to look at our calendar, but do we note it? Great. And then the sooner we don't... So we have that contact list that I think we're ready to send you all. If you need help contacting them, I think Audrey and another of my student to be staffers is happy to help you do that. But yeah, I think just setting that date so we can set the invitations out sooner rather than later would be great. And then if you all agree to also heading, having one of those town halls, the earlier we set the date, kind of the better I think in terms of getting responses and getting the word out. So note it. And Audrey, good to see you. Yeah. Like this. So I hear that we'll be in touch with you and March 5th, right? From starting tomorrow until March 5th is the fluid timeline, but we hear the desire to bump it up from week six to sooner. And we'll be in touch with Audrey to get contact info. Council Member Hightower, as far as the communication of sending the invitation from our experience, it is best that the Joint Committee send the invitation out. Can you talk more about that process that you have in mind? Yeah. So we've never done this before. I think either as a council committee or as a police commission committee, maybe Jabua-Sharine, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we're definitely, I guess, it would just involve, I mean, I would hope that you all could still draft the content of what that invitation would look like. And then those invitations themselves could come from myself or the co-chair, Sherine. Oh, I have a question on the issue of the 33 NGOs. I think we had a commissioner, someone from our group who was concerned that that list not was not necessarily the complete list and wanted the ability to add to it. And I don't know if we're beyond that. And I don't know that she's here tonight. There's no such thing as beyond that. This is public process, right? So just make, let's just, why don't we do this practice though? Like put a revised date at the bottom of the document so we know which document is produced on which date. Would that be okay? Yeah. So for the NGOs, should we invite individuals in this group, if they have any additional thoughts on that, that they should be passing those along sooner than later while you're researching them? So you've got the list of the 33, right, that came with the, on the RFP. And so I think there was a concern from at least one in our joint committee that she might have additions to that group. She might not have been on the committee. I'm not sure she was on the committee when we started the process, but I just didn't know if people could still add to that list if they thought there should be additional stakeholders. Why don't we send you the, the addendum G we have and, and the committee can look through it and then let us know because there's a desire to bump it up from week six and we are, we need to do two. I do hope though that the committee would get back to me if there is additional group that needs to be added. Great. Thank you. Yeah. And let me also say this though that these groups are trusted community messengers, right? As we engage with them, they are identifying additional group then we are open to that, right? So don't feel like, oh my God, we got to get everybody on this addendum G. Don't feel that way either. Okay. And I have to admit that at least on Audrey's list of folks she reached out to, I already had added one organization. So I'm guilty of adding on the background. So I'll send that name to you all. And along those lines on ways of working.  I didn't start with that, but I really am. And I do sometimes get lost in like the details and what I want done. So please don't take that to mean that we're not absolutely thrilled to have you on board. And all of this is just, I'm just excited to have you started. So I want to start with that. And then I forgot what I was actually going to say. You know, I also want to, I know that Sarah wants to make a comment from our team. So Sarah, do you want to unmute yourself? Yeah, I just had two questions first really excited to be working with you all as well. And the first question is just as you were talking about the having a town hall, again, town halls anywhere in the country, it's always the challenge is always getting people there. And I'm just curious if you guys have any thoughts on how, how we would work together to market such an event to make sure that we can get as, as great, as broad a participation from your community as possible? Yes, I want to flag my question that I had was point of contacts. I wanted to clarify that for if you needed a quick answer or anything, I think that'll be me, Shereen and Audrey, that you should be emailing if you don't want to email the whole group, but you will have emails for the whole commission for that. On marketing, I think you'll find that Burlington is a little bit different. And I think it'll be some people are like, they're ready to engage with us. And I think you'll find people who want who, who are frustrated with the council process, with this committee process with how little voice they have had, and they're looking for an avenue that's more collaborative, more open ended. And I think those folks are ready, I think to Milo's point, I think it was Milo, there will be a few folks, there's also populations that we haven't heard from as much, you know, like, like, so I think I'm happy to hear folks' ideas on that. And I think that'll be more difficult. But I think the starting out process, I think there's lots of folks who are ready to engage who have been frustrated with the process this far. So I don't think it'll be hard to get an initial kind of sweep of people engaging. Awesome. One, and then one other question, as we were thinking about just the consensus-based decision making, I think when you go into any engagement effort, you want to be really clear with folks on what the decision making process is. And I was just curious if you guys have had some conversation around that.  Is it the committee makes a recommendation to the council, and then the council adopts the plan? I'm just trying to think ahead of how we, when we engage with people to be really clear with them on what the process is so that they know how their engagement is directly impacting and being considered in the process. I just want to second that question, because all of us agreed on that question as a team. And thank you, Sarah, for asking on our behalf. Yeah, I'll also take that question. And I'm sorry if I'm answer any of the other committee members jump in if you have a different understanding. Or I think ultimately this committee is, I think like all of the council committees, it just brings something to the committee so we can draft a resolution that it brings to the full council. It can recommend actions, but ultimately any action that it will either have to go through the two different bodies that it represents that have kind of action authority, which is the council or the police commission. I think for most of the things that will come, I'm assuming at least, and I don't know if that's a false assumption, that most of the things that will come out of your process will be more likely to be council actions, because I think they'll be tangential to kind of policing is what I'm expecting. I could be wrong. But so I'm expecting most of the things to come out of council action. So I'm expecting it to be a recommendation to the council, ultimately, what components of the report to turn into action. And curious if my fellow committee members had that same feeling understanding. That was my understanding as well. And so with that, that's our impression with our experience with other local government. And so we deliberately put the word initiative and our equitable engagement participation initiative. So here we are. And with the hope that it keeps going. So any other questions from my team or from the committee? So I do have a question. So I'm aware I've been on, my gosh, a city of Burlington website quite a lot of times. And I am super impressed with different languages banners. And so are those languages, the most six most spoken languages listed on the banner? Okay. And so our team will verify, I think all six of them are within our team. However, what I would like to do is we would like to have the invitations key component of the invitation translated in six languages. Now, my understanding is the city has interpretive translation services. We do the double checking of the materials. And so if we are requesting for translated materials, key components, how would that work? I do not know. I don't know if anybody else on this call knows, but I have never dealt with the administrative side of that on the city side. Who can help me get that info? Or should I be talking to the contract administrator? Director Green on that or? Um, I don't want to put too much on Tayisha's department, but if I'm not sure if she or Skyler on the call, Skyler, if they know the answer, happy to get it from them. But if not, then we can work with Audrey to do that. Hey, I don't know the answer, but we could certainly work with you being kind of like the full time city people on figuring that out. Perfect. That would be delightful. And we have models from other projects that we can share with. Okay. A similar thing to what Town Hall, as we disseminate that information to the point of commission or grant, yes, trusted community messengers are going to be key in getting the public public city materials out. But at the same time, we may also partner with city departments like parks and recreation was quite effective in reaching out to intergenerational communities. And if the council in that addendum gene or not can also identify anchor institutions, that will be very useful. And all of you know what I mean by anchor institutions, right? Like the university or the middle school, we have done our research, you know, from afar, but we can share what we found. But if you have more input on that, that would be fantastic. Our analysts are working very hard to identify anchor institutions within your districts and wards and all that. That's great. We'll make a note of that. And I did have one question, sorry not to get off track, but point out like if we are sending you things, I assume you don't want us to send it to all of you. So I guess what are key kind of email point of contact? But all of them to read it, honestly, but for the consistency sake, please send it to me and Karima Edwards. Karima is the project manager and I do the project director, which basically means the same, except I do the budget. I sign paychecks. And apologies, this is the right high tower for those on. I had to turn my video off because I'm having internet issues. I would like to go around the room, the Zoom room, and have at least 30 seconds or a minute, starting with the council member or commissioners who haven't spoken. One of the theories that we are using nationally and has proven to be very effective is place attachment theory and community engagement. What that argues is that one person's attachment, right, like how do we relate to the place we live in? How do what type of meaning the place offer? So for example, Tukwila is my first home, right? That's where I buy my first home and I often deal with my first husband. No, with my husband, that's where I buy my first home, right? And it means so much to me because that is also where I have found the place where I feel like I belong. I can participate in parks planning. I've served as a commissioner. The meaning of the place influence how I engage in the public process. So I would like to go around the room if the commissioner and council member can kind of like sit back, 30 seconds, quiet yourself, and then share with us. That would be very meaningful. So let's start with someone we haven't heard from.  Sorry. So you just mean like what does Burlington mean to me? Is that... Sure. You know, I was thinking about this the other day because someone said why do you live in Burlington? Something that is always astonishing to me and incredible to me is just the level of civic engagement that there is in Burlington. It's what drew me to be here, I think, in a lot of ways. Is this what you meant? Okay. It's what drew me to live here in a lot of ways. And I'm lucky to represent one of... I think this district that I represent is just so incredibly engaged. It's amazing how much people show up. I think there's a lot of work that we still have to do to make sure that people who don't traditionally feel like they have a seat at the table can also have a voice. But it is like compared to a lot of places, it's just incredible that people are so, I think, really feel like they want to be engaged. So that's something that I just really, I really appreciate about living here and it makes me feel rooted to my own values around democratic participation and civic engagement. Perfect. What about Caramella Grant? Hi. I guess I ended up staying in Burlington and making it my home because it was... At first it was a great launch pad to other places. I could get home to when I was still calling New York City home. I could visit there pretty easily. I could go to Montreal. I could go to Boston. It was just a place that was easy to get to other places. And then in terms of making my home and purchasing a home and saying, okay, this is where I want to be, it became mostly about how much I love the state, how beautiful it was. I had great friends, a lot of different activities, especially around music that I could participate in. So those were probably the most important things to me.  All right, thank you. Commissioner, who wants to go next? Just jump in. I'll jump in next. Commissioner Gamash here. And I think my connection to Burlington and why I love it so much is, while I wasn't born here, I've been in Burlington since first grade. And so I grew up here. And I can say that while growing up here, I and a lot of my other friends as well, were very much prepared to get as far away from Burlington as possible once we graduated and left for college. And I can also say that within that first six months of leaving Burlington, I completely understood and why I love Burlington so much. And I came back after a year away and I've been pretty much here ever since. And I think that is kind of ties in with what Councillor Freeman said. And it's just civic engagement is the community. And that's why I stayed here. I can also say that when I was growing up here, I grew up with my mother, who is a new American from East Wattini. And she had plenty of time, plenty of option opportunities to leave Burlington. And she stayed here because of the community and how we fit in here. So that was my connection to Burlington. Thank you for sharing your story. This is storytelling. So anybody else wants to go next? I do want everybody to speak. So if you don't go, I'm going to call Commissioner Hart. Will you? Hart? Yeah, mine's really easy. It's just a couple of words. And it's just the ease with which just making community and human connections with folks. That's that's it for me is I just, I feel like wherever I go, I'm able to connect with folks. And that's making it very hard now, of course, with COVID and not getting out and about, but just to go out and about and I can, I don't like to use this word, but I think I can say and always be able to connect with someone immeasurable to have them. Just to to your point, it's difficult to connect these days, except virtually. But from from I want to hear from the committee. So in our area, it's the county public health that disseminate key information and then the city will disseminate it. So if I go on the city website to learn more about the faces and different, you know, what is allowed, what's not allowed. Is the city the place for me to get the info? I think the the Department of Health, in my opinion, you really go to the Vermont Department of Health. It's very well organized. Good. And the city is working closely with them, tracking parallel. Thank you. Commissioner Harp with a P. Are you a musician? Just used to be. Oh, okay. Not not anymore. So I'm not entirely sure how to answer the question. You know, I live in Burlington because I work in Burlington. That's kind of what drew me here. That's why I'm still here. And I think that most of my connections to the city do stem from the fact that I think that essentially where wherever you are, you have an obligation to try to kind of, you know, anchor yourself, but also improve things as best as you can. So, you know, I got involved in, and I will call this public service, and I got involved in public service a few years ago out of a desire to, you know, improve some things that I saw happening, both nationally and locally. And because I'm here, I wanted to improve those things here. You know, I'm not, I was not born in Burlington. I was born in Minneapolis, spent some time in New York, some time in the California Bay Area. But I enjoy being here. I've been here for 13 years, and certainly I, you know, I feel anchored to the place and want to continue to help improve the place as much as possible. That is a good answer. I mean, not that it matters for me to say good or bad, but, you know, lead where you're land, loom where you're planted, right? Those are, those are values for many of us. Thank you. And employment is a push and pull factor for people who live, so it's key. To your point, to Commissioner Grant about strategic location, it is also place relations to many people. It is a key area to get to different places. Am I missing anybody else? Council Member High Tower, I don't see you on the screen, but I know that you're still here. Yeah. So I am originally from Germany and Oklahoma, and Vermont did feel kind of between those two things, which is nice. Is the country of Germany and Oklahoma or Germany in Oklahoma? The country of Germany and the state of Oklahoma. I'm a half-half. And then, yeah, so like geographically, that's between the two things, I think in some ways, culturally. And then I'm also an environmentalist kind of by training and passion. And so Vermont is a good place to be that. I'm going to turn it over. Am I missing anybody else? We got, Am I, and I'm going to turn it over to my team to, is that okay? Council Member High Tower, we have about six minutes if we plan on a year, an hour engagement. So bringing back up to the work plan and engagement. The reason we do this is because traditional engagement method is very impersonal in many ways about people who make decisions as well. And so thank you for sharing your personal story and your connection and meaning to the place. And I'm also going to kind of open it up to see if you, the council has questions for us to the members. And if the public also have questions for each member, I did share the title of each person proposed position for this project. So maybe perhaps we can share that with the public real quick. David, could you share what your proposed role is and then why you are in this project with Talitha? Yeah, so hi, I'm David Menke and I am one of the public safety advisors for Talitha Council. And the reason why I'm a part of this project is I truly believe in everything that I've seen in the RFP and, you know, that everything that Burlington, City of Burlington is working for. And I have experience with being a Pro Tem Chair on a commission for one of the police departments in Washington and have been in that position for about three years. And, you know, like I've heard from the other commissioners, just being able to be involved and be part of that change. And one thing that I can mention as an example is one thing that we currently look at is, does our police department reflect the community that you serve? And we didn't feel they quite met that measure. So, you know, one thing that we proposed was changing test scores, knowing that, you know, depending on where you're from, you don't always receive the same education. And why is the test score a measure to become a police officer? So we actually reduced our test scores from 80% down to 70% to ensure that we could have a wider range of applicants and to start working towards our goal of having our police department reflect the community they serve. So, you know, just everything about my experience in law enforcement for 20 years and then getting out and going more into the public safety. This is just something that's, you know, near and dear to my heart seeing that, you know, like, I think Commissioner Harb said, what you see on the national level, and then the local level, it's hard to watch all that. And you want to make sure that you can make your change in the area where you can. I can't change the national level, but I can definitely change what's near me. And here, you know, even across the whole U.S., I get a chance to try to help another community. And David is very well traveled through the involvement with the military. I think he's been to 21 different countries.  So Karima, you will have the summary and conclusion. So I'm going to call on Tiffany, your title for the project, and then just say a few words. Hi. Again, my name is Tiffany Pertiller. And for this project, I'll be the Health Equity Advisor. I've been a subject matter expert and deeply committed to equity and social justice for many, many years. And as a public health practitioner, I have recognized that there is just a huge gap in what we see in various communities throughout the country. And so recognizing that the gap that we see is due many oftentimes because of the policies that have been in place, I have been encouraging my public health colleagues to move upstream and to really look at the social justice or injustices that have impacted the health of our communities. And so I'm really excited to be a part of this project and to bring in all of the health equity elements that need to be at play to keep people healthy in the communities where we live. So thank you. And the screen right next to the screen is Liza. Liza. I'm unmuted. I'm unmuted already. Sorry. Hi, I'm Liza. I am assistant project manager. I really firmly believe that in our communities, we need to make as much space as possible for people to be participants in their local government and give some vision. I think there's a lot of fear in giving people that space. And I don't think there's a lot of reason for that fear. So we need to boldly, bravely create these spaces for people to speak to what their experience has been. We start to fill in kind of gaps in our own histories where we live and then act on what comes out of those stories. I'm happy to be part of this team. And Liza is our research lead and also she has an impactable skill for report writing. I just want to say Tiffany does equity planning for a national level. And one of the things that we are charged to do is to get input about safety and health, not just safety alone. So that's why we bring in public safety subject matter expert as well as health equity subject matter expert. Casey. Hi, everyone. It's delightful to be with you and share some space with you. My role is kind of the part of the public safety advising team with David as well as a training advisor. My background in this work, I came from an outreach and engagement background that originally started with HIV testing in New York when I was working for New York State Department of Health and then also in emergency management. And so when I was working in emergency management and trying to do outreach, engagement, educational processes here in Seattle, the Office of Emergency Management falls under the police department. And so I got a call about 15 years ago from headquarters that was like, you're a trainer. You work with folks. You're going to train our officers in anti-profiling techniques, which I was at the time woefully ill-equipped for. And so my journey just shifted dramatically. And so I continued to do outreach and engagement and connection building and relationship building. But then I started to get a lot more involved in diversity, equity, inclusion and creating a sense of belonging with folks. And so, yeah. And so from there, it's just been a journey. And I think I know a little bit more now, but I also think the greatest thing I've ever learned is that I actually still have a lot to learn. And my favorite thing in doing this work is building relationship and listening to the folks who are impacted. So I'm honored to share space with you. And Casey, in addition to her training within police department, she also creates tools and materials for caucusing.  What does it really mean? What are the tools? And so she has a lot of experience in developing toolkits for caucusing based on race and within targeted groups. And I'm just going through the screen. So now it's switched. Sarah? Hi, Sarah Singer Wilson. I am going to be supporting the project with just really relying on my background and facilitation. But I did spend, prior to starting my consulting practice, spent 20 years working directly in local government. Last position held was as a deputy city manager. And I've led a number of initiatives in impacting different city service areas. But in my consulting practice, I do a lot of strategic planning and community visioning and just working with organizations to figure out what that vision is and the action steps that can help them move forward. One of the areas I specialize in is graphic facilitation and visual facilitation, which has been really instrumental, especially during all of these Zoom meetings. It can be really hard to stay engaged and to facilitate this kind of a process, this engagement process with large groups of people and members of the public. So I have lots of graphic templates and tools to try and emulate what you would do in an in-person engagement process as much as you can in an online environment. So that's one of the strengths I hope to bring to this project to really help with the engagement and help you guys set your vision and path forward for this work. Thank you, Sarah. And then Sarah did the graphic summary. So everybody, thank you, Sarah publicly. Thank you. It's quite overwhelming just to look at the text and five-page work plan. So thanks for doing that. And also known as Captain Octopus and our team, who is a multitasker capability of many languages as well as tools. And she just turned off her camera because she can't, she can't do it. Okay, it's all right. Take it. Ella, will you introduce yourself? Yeah. Hi, everyone. Like Kara said, I am Ella Wynn. I'm also Talitha's analyst as well as the youngest member there. And for this project, I'll just be doing, I guess, behind the scene work and helping with any, like, research that I can be useful for. I'm actually really humbled to be here because I'm very new, very young to, like, advocacy work, equity work and inclusivity work. So yeah, really looking forward to how I can learn and grow from this project. Both Ella and I bring immigrant and refugee background. And so oftentimes people have this narrative, and I want to say this in public, in complete narrative, that refugee immigrant and asylume people with those backgrounds are not engaged or not really participating in the democratic process. But studies have shown that second generation immigrants like Ella and myself, we are overburdened. And so there's also that incomplete narrative that we are trying to dismantle as a team. And so we are so looking forward to engaging with immigrants, refugee, asylume, individuals with those backgrounds.  And we also know that many of you are overburdened. With that, I would like to ask our project manager, director, Karima to round us off. Unless anybody else has questions from the committee. No? Okay. All right, round us off, Karima. Well, thank you. I just wanted to just say we really appreciate the opportunity to be here and feel humbled to be part of this process. And I want to amplify what Keras just said about just the power of story and that you all as a community are the asset. We're here to learn from you. I think each team member said something about, you know, we're here to learn and listen. And council member Hightower, I'm glad that you also elevated the fact that you want everyone at the table, but not just at the table, we want to have meaningful engagement with the entire Burlington community, especially for historically marginalized and community members that have not been included. We want to hear from everyone. And we want to make that accessible and to eliminate barriers to participation. So just a little bit about me. I've been working in the public sector for over 20 years. And most recently, I worked in Seattle prior to working with Keras. And I worked for eight years in Seattle as a planner. I'm a project manager for this project because I'm charged with keeping this project on schedule, on budget and within scope. So that's my role. And I've been doing it for a while and I've done it successfully. Managing multi a million dollar projects, often 17 projects at a time. Capital projects as well as programming and emergency management. I also have a background in public safety and have experience with coordination on that side of things. So very excited to be with you all. Very excited to hear you all's story and looking forward to this process. Keras, you are muted. I'm just, it's public record and I'm just going to snatch a quick private picture here. Thank you. All right. Anything else? We're good. Otherwise, I'm done for my end. Councilmember Hightower, it's all yours. Thank you so much to the team. Thank you for joining. If anybody does, as they have more time, if they didn't have time to look at the specific work plan, they have suggestions, feel free to send them directly to Keras and Karima. And if not, you can also send them to me and I'll consolidate them with mine. I'll probably have an email with a few additional thoughts and feedback. But thanks all for being here. Before we close, I want to give the public one less chance if anybody did want to speak to raise their hand. Sounds good. Julia, I see you and I will enable you to speak. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Okay. So I had written in my comments or just some thoughts that I had earlier tonight and I just wanted to note from the community aspect, there's been a lot of community organizing led by a lot of wonderful BIPOC leaders in the Burlington community rallying behind true community oversight of police and having an independent oversight body in addition to the police commission board. I just kind of wanted to note that clearly the current model of oversight with just the police commission board is not enough as the police commission board is too deeply embedded in the Burlington police department and the horrible excessive use of force by the BPD against Burlington residents like many other areas in the United States disproportionately targets black community members and those trends have continued this year even though we've only had a month of 2021 thus far. And I just kind of wanted to say that or like ask why we can't have both a police commission and a true independent community oversight board as having more people holding the police accountable can't be a bad thing because clearly the current model is not working. So yeah that is my comment and thank you. Thank you Julia and Jess LaPorte you are up. Hi my name is Jess LaPorte and I use she her pronouns. Members of this body are familiar with me as a member of the public who has been participating regularly on a number of issues related to transforming and reimagining public safety in our city related to the community control of police measure that Julia was speaking to. But tonight I'm calling into this body as something very similar to every other time a concerned member of the community. I'm really disturbed by the way in which this most recent case where the police used excessive force against a member of the public in particular a black teen male not only that it happened is obviously very upsetting how it happened and the fact that actions were taken and questions were asked afterwards the fact that the police can put their hands on people for something that they suspect and they become and they immediately choose to decide that that person is a criminal and that it justifies their use of force in a moment. I'm also really concerned about the rhetoric that has been shared by both the interim chief of police insinuating that members of the public would like to let criminals run wild in this city preempting any backlash against these particular officers or BBT in general rhetoric by city counselors who are intended to represent all members of Burlington and have chosen to villainize this black teen male and justify the use of force. It is my understanding that the use of force came before other measures were taken and that isn't the current policy unlike some of these other cases in the past that a technically against BBT didn't have that policy that hopefully there would be consequences through our current mechanisms but I'm already seeing really harmful rhetoric that justifies use of force against members of our community based on their background their skin color or other suspected criminal activity and that is deeply concerning to me and I'm bringing this up to this body because this body was created this joint committee was created in response to many members of the public raising their voice for racial justice and while I have sat through the presentation from Talitha and I know that the focus is not specifically on police accountability I am a member of the public who has been speaking regularly who feels incredibly frustrated that it doesn't matter if you participate in public process that change is not only slow but it is specifically discouraged in our current systems and I'm incredibly frustrated one that the police commission and members of that body are on this body were not in support of accountability and then were rightfully frustrated when you have not had access to the information to do a full investigation and maybe your even your recommendations can or cannot be taken and I'm just I don't actually know what I'm asking for at this point but I'm incredibly frustrated and incredibly disheartened and I'm incredibly ashamed of living in Burlington for the fact that we are repeating the same playbook that happened after the melee brothers were assaulted by police officers yet again in another case and people are turning turning their eyes away and they're not going to pay attention and we're as people of color in the city we're still at the same risk that we were 365 days ago thank you just look for it I'm seeing no other hands oh we've got grace up next did you say another public member yes yeah can you hear me um I just I really hope that we're all absorbing everything that that Jess is saying and I guess I wanted to sort of add into that too just I'm not sure if if Talitha is if the consultants are aware of this but we've had a huge huge huge amount of public input over the past six months during public forum at city council meetings in these meetings and police commission meetings we've heard from hundreds and hundreds of of folks pretty consistently we've had at least two hours of public comment at almost all of the meetings asking for police accountability and I think that's really important to know and it's really important to note that there was this use of force case that happened on the seventh that is another use of force case in a series of cases that have happened violence against black members of our community and this incident is very very disturbing and I think also very unfortunately not surprising at the same time and it's my understanding that this case would not have come to any of our attention and that no one would have viewed the body cam footage that has now been released if it weren't for the fact that a bystander made a complaint and if that there wasn't a complaint this would have just remained one amongst many use of force cases of which there were more than 149 of last year those disproportionately were against black members of our community 23 percent of those were against black members of our community who make up about one percent of our community here and and just to to go back to the police commission who is part of this committee I think what the police commission has been dealing with around this use of force incident perfectly makes the case for community control of police which was a community a community effort that was put forth a resolution that was put forth to create a fully independent civilian body that would have disciplinary and investigative investigatory powers over the police department that was recently vetoed by the mayor and was not supported by the police commission and we're seeing right now this refusal from the police chief mirad to release any more body cam footage related to this incident that happened on the seventh all body cam footage that relates to this incident is relevant especially because one officer did not have her body cam on and the other officer's body cam was covered in snow for basically the whole incident the original community control police proposal creates a board to handle discipline and investigative and an investigative office which has unfettered access to all records of the police department the investigative office also would receive complaints and then go to the police department and investigate those incidents and then use all of the materials provided by the police department to make findings which i think is what the police commission is wanting to do and finding themselves unable to do and i think i think that's really frustrating and i think we need in my opinion we need a fully independent body that's independent from the police department which the police current police commission is not right now and as long as we have police we will have police brutality and police violence and what this community has been overwhelmingly asking for for the past six months and before that is true police accountability and there are many many many folks who are ready to engage and who have been engaging and it is really great to hear from Talitha i think the most possible engagement and getting the most possible input on top of the input we've already gotten from folks will be really really important and i'm looking forward to having more input and hearing from folks we haven't heard from and having that all be um compiled and documented and and hopefully having us at least feel like we are being heard and and listened to so thanks. Thank you Grace. Councilmember Zariah. Yes was that a chance Karis i'm sorry. I just wanted to um ask the one question um and i can wait until all the public's spoken i just want to make sure i say that. Yeah no if you have a point of clarification please go ahead. So yes there's a parallel process happening correct for the police uh assessment i saw an RFP went out specifically about the police yeah can you speak to that a little bit where is that going? Yes so there's two RFPs that went out the attention was to have this one be earlier because to have the sort of have kind of community process and form the second one as well the second one is specifically a assessment on the burlington police department itself we have selected the consultant for that it has not been approved by the city council that is expected to be on our consent agenda in the next meeting which is next monday and so presumably work with them would kick off um hoping that that contracting kind of timing is somewhat faster um at the end of this month. Would it be too much for me to ask that i would like to see um would like to be informed about that because it's all interconnected right and in order to honor the six month public input in the past and then um so i would like to be kept in the loop for those two RFPs. Yes and the RFPs that RFP specifically cites you all and the RFP that you responded to and that it needs to take you all your kind of recommendation and feedback and and what you all are hearing and incorporate that so yeah that was yes and i will also say that part of our deliverable as the standard practice is that we always note the documents that we read through uh and then the hours we spend so i just want the public to hear that if you have said you know there's six months worth of council meeting notes blah blah blah um we don't take that lightly we actually gather and analyze and read that through and you'll see that that in our invoice so i just want to say that thank you of course and then Grace i'm lowering your hand i hope that's okay and then i'm Lila fortunate enough to speak. Apologies if i said your name incorrectly. Hi it's Lila but i'm sorry um thank you all um for being here i'm so excited that this process is starting with um you all tolita consultants um i just wanted to quickly i'm really that that point um cars that you just made about like looking through all these documents is really encouraging and i also think that one thing that i want all the consultants to be aware of and you'll definitely be hearing from me in other forums that you're hosting as you will Grace and Jess and all and Julia and other folks that you'll find are very very involved in this community um but there's definitely a um a portion of this community who is very concerned that we're not taking into account um the the voices of of the police um and there's a definitely been some skewing as i'm sure you all are familiar with i'm sure there's not news to you but the the news media that's been covering um what's been happening in burlington regarding the police and um you know protests that have been happening regarding police accountability have been extremely skewed um and i know that this is just repeating what we already know about that news media is always biased um and then recently within the past month the um police union um which um let me just one second find out well the yeah so the police union i'm not going to go into the specificities but they mailed um a flyer to every person in burlington every household in burlington um talking about basically like the threat that the police department was under um and they were skewing facts to make it seem like more scary than it actually is and they were not being completely um transparent with the with the facts and so there is a lot of tension happening in this city um because we the folks who want police accountability have been so outspoken um and there's been so much happening around the police that that folks who believe that the police need to be protected are also really coming out um and using fear mongering tactics and so i know that this is not a forum that you thought you all were going to be receiving tonight but um and so i really appreciate you all listening to us um but i just think that's also really important want to echo what people have already said um and then also just bring up that there's other aspect um and yeah just really glad that you all are going to be also talking to members of the community because the the material that will come up in your research for if you are looking into the news um of course it's going to be bias um and has um been biased uh towards the police or you know in favor of the police so i think that's all really important for y'all to know um i'll leave it there thank you thanks lilla and i just want to apologize because i'm pretty sure you've corrected me before so and with that i'll promote sharyl green hi my name is sharyl i live in ward one i've been in burlington for 13 years and i have been very distressed um most recently particularly about the january 7th incident and i want to add to what speakers before me have said by saying that i think we really need to look at the word de-escalation um in a a very important way and as i watched the video of this incident on the 7th i realized that i also want there to be de-escalation of the police themselves so if there is a team that's going into a situation where there's a question a person needs to be um talk to that there would be a team that would be overseeing the police it's not just about de-escalating the person who has a hand put on his shoulder within a few seconds it's also really being able to keep the police from escalating the situation um so in this case it was you know the first physical contact and then this huge assault that happened on the part of the police um i believe it all could have been prevented and should never have happened in the first place so de-escalation all the way around thank you i'm very excited that you're all here thank you Cheryl that is all i'm seeing on hands um i'm willing to stick around if needed but i do want to make sure that my team knows that um you can go 430 you have plans so i just book your time till 430 i'll stick around if there's any more questions thanks everyone thanks for joining us and appreciate it um not committee members you we're not done but um i see Milo's hand and um and sorry then Randall thank you um this is Milo Grant i uh just wanted to say a couple of things our community members that have been following along and um are concerned about the um recent incident i really want to stress in the strongest terms possible that we need community members to file complaints and i know for a fact that many affected community members no longer have faith in that process we've recently had a change where um when these complaints are submitted electronically we get copies of them the same time that the police department gets them and that's huge i so i just it's just so important to get that word out um because just this small change i believe will make a really big difference um in terms of reviewing people's concerns and making sure that um they are looking to there are some more things i'd like to say um for anyone who listened to the police commission our last police commission meeting know that i was very vocal about um my concerns i there's not a lot more i can say at this time because apparently there are some things going on legally um so i actually um am looking to hear more detailed information on that but i think people need to stay tuned um and but just to i just can't emphasize enough that we need to get the word out that people should no longer um one not be afraid of submitting a complaint and also can have some faith restored in submitting complaints thank you and for the audience that was nilo grant uh randall i believe you had your hand up as well you know i was just thanking the members of the police that we needed to leave no comment great thanks everyone with that i'll close that item um and we'll go on to the next meeting agenda items which also includes setting the date um and would like to hear commissioners preference in terms of um working with salita going forward i think we're hoping to do some check-in so i'm wondering um if now would also be the time to schedule that and when that would be best for i guess i also want to be transparent that um i do plan on continuing to communicate with to lethah um kind of continuously throughout this um so shireen and i will be copied on those messages um going forward do we note it hi this is milo grant again can we um get an email verifying if there's information that we want to share um individuals we feel that should be contact as a commute contacted as a community stakeholder um is there a primary um email address that we should be using and if we can have that um email to all the members of the committee thank you yes i will follow up so i want to make sure that um yes i will follow up on that and send um all of the consultants all of the um commission's email address i do want us to be careful in terms of open meeting law so um do not send something to all of the commissioners without copying um and we're still working out who are administrative back step is right now um shannon unfortunately had to um step away from that so we're still figuring that out but without copying for now shannon so we can get that up on board docs for the public because if it's shared with all of us it's shared with the public and so um and also doing that in time because if we get it a few hours before the meeting she may not have the chance to put that up but yes um the two points of context will be charrison kareema so you'll have those email addresses charris and kareema and you'll have those email addresses after this meeting and my my team and partners know that because of liability reasons too from our end that whatever emails that they get they're gonna have to forward me and kareema first before responding so um um yeah did that answer all of your questions milo yes thank you great and from our end we will copy uh council members iraia and commissioner heart on everything that we submit and i do want to acknowledge so that on the contract the contract uh administrator is um director green and skylar will be the point of contact from that department and then in terms of our next meeting um curious what folks thinks is best right now i'm free if we did want to continue the monday streak i think for a while we were on tuesdays or thursdays but um i am free on the 15th as well as the 22nd depending on how early folks wanted to have a full team check in um actually i should verify that yes that is true um i was going to say that the police commission meets on the 23rd so any any other day but that will work for the commission how are folks feeling about the harry is there a council meeting on the 22nd i have on the 24th for some reason um let me just double check okay i was wondering that i thought when you said i was like oh maybe i was in a meeting on the 22nd let me just double check i'm looking at my calendar not the city council schedule i'm looking at the um yeah it looks like there's only one on the 16th is that right tuesday i know what that's okay a tuesday and a wednesday that's odd okay so we are free those mondays oops accurate i'm gonna text but hypothetically based on the city website monday the 15th could work or monday the 22nd do folks have a preference between the february 15th or the february 15th second yes okay um we're gonna get back to you um is that okay okay um and then karima you got those dates down perfect and i guess i'll send out i guess it would be nice to get some our it sounds like most of the committee members on the call are free on both of those dates but we are barely at quorum so i guess i'll try to get in touch with some of the missing folks as well and so thanks i'm sorry i'm just going to reach out i'm gonna get hold of the other commissioners and find out for you thank you i really appreciate that and i'll now in the next meeting though i want to make sure that you have uh i mean in in the next 48 hours you will get the graphic um and then you already have the document so just give us the comment we're going to give you maybe like another uh 48 hours to comment and so my goal is before the next joint committee meeting you should have the final work plan with your input okay so that document is going to be shared uh the uh whatever the public document sharing to the public okay great great and i should have an update um on the second rfp at that time as well regardless of which one of those we choose um so in terms of agenda items i presume those will be two of the things an update on the second rfp more kind of next steps with talitha and then any um shireen will presumably have another update on equitable sharing um harry i don't know if at that point you might also want to give an update on um where the charter work is at or the oversight work is at is that fair great great so we'll put that on the agenda as well so we'll do those four things hopefully all shorter items any other thoughts on next meeting great then one with that i would entertain a motion to adjourn by commissioner hart seconded i'm gonna buy commissioner gommash any discussion all those in favor please say aye aye aye any of i any opposed that passes unanimously thank you all so much for the meeting and we'll see you later this month


Welcome to the Knuckleheads of Liberty. That's not the economy right there. You're not looking at the general economy. You're looking at just the stock market right there. So all you're going to see is the effects of this massive amount of money printing. That doesn't mean, oh, we made widgets. We went back to work right after COVID. And look at what we did. Boom, right back up to where we started from in a matter of months. And then even start surpassing that because why? Because we're making widgets and we're just really knocking it out. No, that's not why. It's because of the stock market. It's because the Fed printed so much money. And they're still printing money, but now, oh, it reaches the top where, oh, they started adding to the interest rate. Oh, goodness gracious. You know, the basis for the whole casino, the whole betting monopoly based on cheap money, cheap debt, cheap debt. That's all it is. That's a cheap debt graph right there. And now it's just become, oh, it got a little more expensive. Oh, look what happened. Oh, did it start tapering off? Oh, goodness gracious. Yes, it did. That's all I have to say about that. Well, yeah, well, Tim, yes, I think you're right about that. I think most economists and most market watchers and everything and all that we are looking at these days seem to indicate that our recession is looming. And of course, as the feds continue to raise interest rates, of course, it's going to slow down investments and interest rates. The interest rates will cause people to have less incentive to invest. And what's going to happen? We're probably going to have a slowdown in economy. We can hope and pray that it does not get into recession, but it does not look that way.  And you know, of course, the way they're going to solve this, the way they're going to solve the inflation problem is to raise interest rates, to try to slow down the economy, I guess, to help prices, I guess, and thus, you know, will get us into a better place. But the better place was going to be a recession. And that recession is not going to be a good thing for many people. But if you go back to the 1980s, this is how Paul Volcker solved the big recession when Ronald Reagan, just as Ronald Reagan took office, raised interest rates, we went into a recession, but we came out of it pretty quickly. But I don't know if this is going to happen this time, even if they do raise interest rates, even if we do get into a recession, I don't know if we're going to come out of it as quickly, given the central planning tendencies of the Biden administration or the Democratic administration in general. So it doesn't look good. I mean, unemployment is still at a good level, but the science does not look very good. It is not very encouraging right now. Well, maybe they shouldn't try to manipulate from the top the economy like this. You know, maybe they shouldn't be using interest rates to, you know, put the gas or the brake pedal on the economy. Maybe the interest rates ought to fall to wherever the market would bear normally. So now I'm talking Austrian economics compared to the morons at the Keynesian side. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness always.