welcome friends once again to another session on mathematics and today we are going to start another series of sessions on algebraic identities and their applications okay so we will also see how to expand various algebraic expressions powers of expressions and then we will also understand how to factorize right so we will understand two things one is there is an algebraic expression so so we will learn under this topic primarily we will be learning what expansion how to expand expand a given expression so let us say there is an algebraic expression I am assuming you all know what an expression is but just to recap an expression is nothing but a combination of various terms right and how to combine the terms using plus or minus sign that's what an expression is about so let us say 2x minus 3y is there and let us say we need to find out its second power right then how to expand them so such kind of things we will be learning another thing let's say 4x minus 5y to the power 4 or let us say a minus 2b to the power 3 and things like that or let us say it seems like x minus y times x plus 3y things like that so how to expand these right so this is one and then second thing is factorization exactly the reverse process factorization so let us say if there is an expression given let's say x square plus 3x plus 2 so this is a polynomial now how to factorize it that means how to convert this into this form x minus a times x minus b or something like that right so you can clearly differentiate one is to convert the factors back into expressions you know and the other one is factorization means how to convert a given expression and express it as factors of multiple expressions that's what we are going to learn right so we will start with algebraic identities okay so let's understand what is an algebraic identity before that if the name suggests algebraic identities that means there must be identities which are not algebraic isn't it right so let us you know understand both these terms one by one so what is an identity identity so identity as the name suggests is something which doesn't change it stays identical doesn't it stays identical so hence identity in mathematics is nothing but is an equality so basically it's an equation it's an equation or an equality which which which is true true or which holds or that holds holds for all values of the variable all values of the variables right that's what an identity is so let us say if I say x plus 3 is equal to 5 now here clearly x is equal to 2 right is the only only value which holds only value x equals to 2 is the only value which which satisfies satisfies x plus 3 is equal to 5 isn't it but if I say but if let's say x plus 1 whole square is x square plus 2x plus 1 let us say this is another equality here this particular equality or equation is true true for any value of x which is a variable over here isn't it so hence this is an example of an identity right identity so hence true for true for all values of the variables but this is a plain and simple equation it's not an identity this one is not an identity not an identity I hope you understood the difference between identity and a generic equation so identities are also equations but equations not necessarily our identities okay so this is the definition of identity now what we are going to concentrate is on algebraic identities that is all the identities in algebra related to algebra but there can can be things like trigonometric trigonometric identities as well trigonometric identities also exist also exist for example if you are aware of basic trigonometry then we say that sine square theta plus cosine square theta right is always one where theta is an angle so this is called a trigonometric identity right so whatever be the value of theta this relationship is not going to be affected so it is independent of theta so hence it is trigonometric identities right but here we are going to focus only on algebraic identities and let's do a quick recap of whatever identities which we have covered in the previous grades okay so let's do a quick recap of all the identities so I'm going to jot them down one by one and it's always a good practice to store or let's say write these identities in a piece of paper and affix it in front of your study table or something like that so that you are in constant touch with these identities so let's start so let us say a plus b and this is the first identity which would have learned and it is nothing but a square plus two a b plus b square many students have this issue of writing a plus b whole square as simply a square plus b square so this is not true so hence please be very very careful a plus b whole square it's pronounced like that a plus b whole square is a square plus 2 a b plus b square next one is you simply replace b by minus b if I replace b by minus b on the left hand side wherever there is b on the right hand side I will replace that with minus b as well so hence you can see what is the identity now it is nothing but a square minus 2 a b plus b square correct this is the second one third one is let us say now I have a minus b and a plus b so a minus b a plus b if you expand it so I will also give you a few examples of expansion so that you know you are familiar with what exactly this means so hence it is nothing but I multiply a by a so I get a square then I multiply a by plus b so you'll get a plus a b then you multiply minus b by a so it is minus b a and then minus b square so this disappears so hence it is left with a square minus b square right third one what is the fourth one now these were all about squaring the identities so let us say if instead of two terms I had three terms within the square so what will this be this will be nothing but a square plus b square plus c square plus twice of a b plus twice of b c plus twice of c a right now there could be multiple varieties and if you know various types of this identity itself for example let us say if this is a minus b plus c whole square so how to do it so you know the trick wherever there is plus b replace it by minus b simply so hence on the right hand side what will it what will it become a square plus minus b square plus c square plus 2 into a into minus b plus 2 into minus b times c plus 2 c a right and then you can simplify further and it is nothing but a square minus plus b square sorry plus c square minus 2 a b minus 2 b c plus 2 c a so if you notice the square terms are not affected by the minus sign only where b appears only once that is the power of b is once the sign will change correct this is the fourth identity fifth one now we'll go to cube so if you do a plus b whole cube what is it a cube plus 3 a square b plus 3 a b square plus b cube this is the identity many people write this as a cube plus b cube so you're combining a cube plus b cube and then taking 3 a b common from here so you write 3 a b and then a plus b this is another form of the same identity right then sixth one you can guess you can simply change plus b to minus b and what will happen wherever there are odd powers of b they will change so hence it will be nothing but plus 3 a square minus b so it is a cube plus 3 a square minus b plus 3 times a times minus b squared plus minus b cubed right simplifying you get a cube minus 3 a square b plus 3 a b square minus b cube so there are a few things to notice over here if you see the signs are altering alternating so plus becomes minus then becomes plus then becomes minus or if you notice only where the powers of b were odd the sign changed so for example here it was cube so sign changed here it was only one so sign changed isn't it so please bear that in mind going to the next one what is the next identity so next identity is let's say a cube plus b cube which can directly come out from this identity itself if you manipulate it and let us say if you see how how do I get a cube plus b cube it's nothing but a plus b whole cube according to the above identity is a cube plus b cube plus 3 a b a plus b isn't it right so hence what can I say about this so hence what you can do is take a cube plus b cube on one side and rest of the terms on the other side so you can write a cube plus b cube is equal to a plus b whole cube minus 3 a b a plus b so I'm taking this term whole term on this side right so in the right hand side if you see you can take a plus b common actually so what is left within a plus b whole squared minus 3 a b isn't it so a plus b was taken as common so what does it become so let a plus b be as it is and now you know the identity a plus b whole square is a square plus b square minus plus 2 a b sorry plus 2 a b minus 3 a b isn't it right so hence what do I get a plus b and if you simplify you'll get a square 2 a b and minus 3 a b will give you minus a b and plus b square correct so this is the identity so if you see you could factor if you notice carefully this was a sum of two terms and you could express that as a factor or a product of two factors isn't it so this is one of the tricks to factorization which anyways will be learning later on so if you didn't understand go through it slowly what I did was I simply change the side of 3 a b a plus b and then took a plus b common and a plus b whole square was a square plus b square plus 2 a b and minus 3 a b was already there I did the manipulation I got a plus b a square minus a b plus b square similarly you can try this as a as an exercise a cube minus b cube will be simply a minus b times a square plus a b plus b square so if you see this minus sign changes here and this minus sign changes here as well so wherever b was you know have to replace b by minus b and you'll get the identity right okay now there are a few more identities which we'll take up in the next session


Very good. Okay, ah, we're ready. Yeah, I want to take you back 2,000 years ago to that point where Jesus was, he was growing up and he was feeling inside his heart that he had a destiny. And we now know that that destiny is all of our destinies. This is a destiny that we share to know God, to know our source and our creator. And yet he had to practice his prayers, his faith, and he also had to practice patience to wait on his time. And know that when his time came, he would open up and he would begin to extend the presence that he became fully aware of. So for each of us, this is the same process that we go through. We seem to come to this world, we grow and mature from childhood into our teenage years and our adulthood. And there can be mystical experiences along the way that we've shared, peak experiences, we get glimmers and glimpses that the world is not what it seems to be and that there is something greater. There's a greater purpose for our life than what we've learned in the past. Greater purpose than our education, greater purpose than our skill levels. It says if we have developed a personality and skill levels in an egoic framework but without knowing what they're for and then when we start to get activated in our heart, we start to realize, wow, there is a purpose for everything that I seem to develop in the ego's sense. And I know I shared a bit of my journey yesterday and I was sharing how I had ten years of university full-time. I developed a lot of skills during those ten years and yet I didn't know what they were for. So it was quite curious to keep on developing and sharpening the skills but with this very strong feeling like I can't see how these will be used. I can't see myself plugging into a career or into a lifestyle that is based on these skills and based on my limited perception. And the truth is that none of us can. That's why when we go into the journey with the spirit, as I shared last night, the miracles are involuntary and should not be under conscious control but most of everything we've developed in our life is to take charge of our life, to carve out our niche, to specialize, to become educated, to become a fully functioning human being and yet there's something inside of us that says there's so much more. There's so much more that you're unaware of. Even quantum physicists have talked about this with many people in many spiritual traditions that we seem to just perceive the smallest little fraction of what we're capable of perceiving. In Course in Miracles terms, we're just perceiving through the ego, through the lens of the ego and we're looking through the five senses and we're seeing a very limited distorted perception. And in the Bible, in Corinthians, we're looking through a darkened glass and this darkened glass becomes accepted as normal. It becomes accepted as just the way it is. Even though it's so dark and so distorted that Jesus is telling us constantly if you only knew what lies beyond this darkened glass you would be in a state of wonder, you would be in a state of euphoria, you would be in a state of extreme exuberant joy and supreme happiness if you could look beyond this limited lens of the ego. There's even two lessons, workbook lessons 163 and 167 in the workbook of A Course in Miracles which Jesus gives like a dissertation on death and he's talking about the ego being death. He's not talking about physical death. He's saying if you believe in the ego, you do believe in death and it has blocked you from knowing eternal life and he goes on to define it and he says that even a little sigh of weariness is death. He goes on to say that any experience you have that is not supremely happy, supreme happiness anything at all including a little sigh of weariness is death. If it's not supreme happiness then you are believing in and addicted to death and death blocks the eternal nature of Christ and the eternal nature of the creator of God. So there's another part in the Course where Jesus says you have no idea in this world of how much your father loves you. So what we've seen as family love or romantic love or love of our pets, us toward them and them towards us or other forms of love, we go deeper into the Course and Jesus is teaching us no you really don't know how vast this love is. In fact in the forgotten song he says you would weep if you remembered all those that you loved and how much you were loved and he's referring to heaven.  So we're going to use two episodes today to try to move towards opening our hearts up to give and receive that love. And some of you have noticed that the little sign we have up there for the life of mysticism has two children in a field of flowers and that's the beautiful thing of going to this experience of this divine innocence. In the Bible Jesus was quoted as saying except you become as little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. And he goes on to explain it to us in the Course saying that infants are completely dependent on their parents for their survival and what he meant by except you become as little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven is he said you have to become that dependent on the Holy Spirit as dependent as infants are with their parents. And we talked a bit about that yesterday. There is no such thing as intellectual understanding. You can't intellectually grasp the Course. It's just another construct that the Course is a Course based on application and on action. It's like taking actions based on guidance and literally letting Jesus guide the action component of the miracle. He will tell you where to bestow the miracles, with whom to bestow the miracles and it has to come from the Spirit. As I said yesterday Jesus is the only one he says in the Course that can perform miracles indiscriminately and because he can do that he can lead that direction of following the prompts of Jesus and letting Jesus direct away leads to the experience of revelation which is direct contact with the light a direct experience of the light. When I read those words those aren't just words for me because after I immersed myself so deeply in the Course for about eight hours a day then that preceded these cascading miracles is the only way I can describe it where everything started to feel very surreal and then I had the three revelatory experiences so Jesus took me into the light through my willingness to let the miracles come through me to not try to control who I would speak to where I would go and it took a lot of willingness to just loosen up and let go of all the plans and the images generated from the past that were part of David's idea of what would be nice to do in the future. It was like once I handed over the steering wheel and handed over the reins then I was able to be led into these revelatory experiences. Today what we're going to do is the first episode we will look at will be an episode from season number one where Jesus is just about ready to go on his public mission with the apostles and it's a beautiful scene because the Holy Spirit always takes us in gradually and helps us build our confidence and kind of let it pour through us in a smooth, relaxed way so we are confident in the Spirit coming through us and this particular episode has Jesus before he's gone on his public mission and he's just camping. He has a little tent, he has a little fireplace he's just off having a very devoted camping time with God doing his prayers and he's just so connected but he's collecting wood for the fire he's preparing, doing some of his wood handicrafts that he had done as a carpenter, very simple things he hasn't gone on a public teaching mission yet but his camping site will be discovered by a girl who comes there and is so excited with what she sees she's hiding and watching, looking at the site and watching and then she goes and gets a friend and then they go and get their friends so we have Jesus and a group of children what a beautiful thing to observe because little children oftentimes are so receptive and they're so curious and they have not formed a lot of hard-line perceptions and judgments yet they're still quite open and to me this is a beautiful symbol of how the Spirit takes us slowly into our function of extending this love and light slowly we're shown where we can bestow our light where we can offer a gift it has to be under the direction of the Spirit it can't be based on past learning and past preferences it can't be based on judgments of any kind you can't really have a thought and say wow this one really needs this or this one needs that because that's not the way that it works it's for one's own mind to extend the light and Jesus knows where there is a receptivity we have to speak as Kirsten talked about on Friday you have to speak to those where there is a receptivity where you have a mighty companion who wants to hear it as much as you want to share it and that's an orchestration by the Holy Spirit you can't just go out like trying to give your miracles away like you have a machine gun and you're just going to try to unload your miracles as fast as you can wherever you can because again, only Jesus because he's completed his part in accepting the Atonement is capable of sharing miracles indiscriminately because he is the light he is the way, the truth and the life he is able to extend in any way but he also is, you might say, has a spirit's eye view of what we perceive to be the world so it's all part of a prearranged plan but the only way you can be aware of the miracle is just to be willing to be used to extend it you can't decide in advance how you're going to share it or to whom or where those are things that are not up to the sleeping mind all you can do is put your hand up and say, I'm willing use me and Jesus is like, thank you I will and it comes and it comes and when you give yourself over to it it will just come like a stream and it will come like a river, like a torrent and as you yield into this function of letting the miracles come through you you will be taken to the revelatory experience of direct contact with the light that we all are, that we always have been and then in the second episode this will be a time when the Apostles have been called Mary Magdala is traveling with the Apostles we have, we'll see in this particular episode Mother Mary will be there as well and this will be a time when Jesus is just opening up and making himself available in a very public way for healing so there are lines of people that hear about Jesus they hear about the miracles that have already happened and they line up with all manner of malady all manner of sickness of illness, everything from psychic things to demonic possessions leprosy, palsy, blindness and all source of ailments and they just hear about Jesus and the miracles that have happened but what I think is most helpful about this is this is an early glimpse at the Apostles and Mother Mary and Mary Magdala because you can see that they've all been called by Jesus and yet their ego is just rearing itself up they're trying to be friendly, cordial open with each other and yet there are these judgments and grievances that have been buried in their mind and they just start to come up so while they're trying to learn to be together and live together as a small group that travel with Jesus there's a lot of ego resistance that is coming up particularly between Matthew who has been a tax collector and is it maybe Simon or yeah, Simon is the one whose Simon Peter is a Jew and as with many of the Jews they see that a Jewish man that's working for the Romans to collect taxes as like a betrayer a traitor of the worst kind and yet Matthew has been called by Jesus so you have Fisherman, Simon and his proud Jewish traditions and knowing the Scriptures and trying to live the best life as a Jew that he can based on his devotion to God and he's married and he's giving his all for that and he can get quite angry at times he has quite a temper and then there's the very articulate and well-learned Matthew except his previous profession does not fit very well with Simon at all with the group because there's some in the group that are very sympathetic and open to him and yet we see a clash when you start to give your life over to Christ then the ego will try to use your past against you whatever you seem to do whatever you seem to not do the ego will try to use it to keep you from running to the light from lining up with the light so the ego is ingenious at trying to perpetuate guilt based on what you've done wrong or what you didn't do in the past that you should have done according to the ego's judgment where you didn't fulfill the role that was set for you of course the ego set the role to perpetuate the guilt and of course it loves to just judge and hammer the mind for all the mistakes it's made with the particular role that the ego set up in the first place so we see the beginnings of what all of us will have to face as well about releasing the past and learning to live in the present moment and it's very strong because also it's very striking as Jesus is spending an entire day morning afternoon and evening with the public basically I forget the location they're in for this if it's Samaria or it's one of these places too that in particular Jews are not that welcome so it's a big stretch to even be there it's not like home territory where you're welcome and then to put it out publicly that Jesus is available for healing and then the lines of people line up and in that whole context of Jesus pouring his heart out and letting the love of God pour through him and the context of what seemed to be the bickering and the disagreements and the judgments that are arising in the small group of apostles and friends that are following Jesus so this shows us really it gives us a context for what a Course in Miracles is calling us to it's calling us to allow up all of our unconscious darkness so that we can hand it over to the Holy Spirit and be defenseless and Jesus is such a great demonstration of that friendliness of that defenselessness you'll see it in the first episode especially with the children I know for myself I have been with and worked with children in the earlier part of my parable it was so much that it just came out of me so easily and so naturally and I could feel confidence in what was coming through I could feel confidence I could feel that the children I was working with were receptive they weren't judging me they were grateful they were actually happy and joyful and we shared so much glee and happiness together and I love this episode where we actually get to see that dynamic with Jesus before he goes on his public mission and then we'll just have to take glee and joy and happiness and extend it wherever possible and have to just be very very prayerful so I think today will be a very practical day for us this is a one step and one giant leap as Neo Armstrong said when he landed on the moon one small step for man one giant leap for mankind we are literally taking a journey today with Jesus where we are doing this for the whole universe because the universe and everything in it is a reflection in our mind and it has not left the mind of the thinker so we need training in miracles we need training in perceiving in a holistic way not in a fragmented, separate way as long as we're looking through the ego's lens and we're perceiving persons and personalities we're not seeing the big picture we're not seeing the holistic forgiven world we're not seeing the happy dream if we're still judging against people, places and situations that seem to be external to our mind Jesus is telling us they are not you have to pluck the offence from within your mind you're not going to remove the offence by changing something in the world and as we closed last night I thought that was so beautiful with Kristoff saying that here he is, he goes in to meet a client as part of a psychotherapy he simply reveals that what he had heard from me was you know, never correct a brother and the magnificent miracle the energy that was released from that one idea was life changing earth changing I mean it ended the psychotherapy session it wasn't 50 minutes it was a few minutes and it was done and that is a good example of the time collapse that this doesn't have to be a long, arduous, difficult journey for us at all this can be quick in fact I say the faster the better why not, why not let it be an instant that in which you and the whole universe is healed why make it into a long difficult journey when it can be accomplished in an instant and it helps to have a way show or demonstrating the presence of the miracle because that is of enormous help in us starting to take on the function of being a miracle worker it helps to have role models it helps to have examples it helps to have those that inspire you to really let the love inside your heart pour out and what we're going to see today is a prime, prime example so for those of you that are on live streaming I'm glad you joined us I hope you feel the love and joy that we're having and for those of you that are obviously in the movie workshop in the three day a life of mysticism online retreat we're just getting ready to begin so enjoy and I will be back with commentary and then we'll have a breakout group and then I'll come back to join you individually at the close


For a long time our islands were not on the maps to begin with because they were too small or too insignificant at the time to be on the maps and then it's only in the past say 20 years that we finally started seeing our countries our islands small as they were on large world maps to then get to the point where there is a very real possibility that we will once again not be on the maps and not by an oversight of cartography but that of the reality that these islands especially atonations of the Pacific could violently disappear as a result of sea level rise and climate change that is scary not just scary but also extremely unfair for those who reside on those islands


Our guest is George Matthew, Group of Rights President and General Manager of Business Intelligence. We're here, we'll be talking about big data, mobility, analytics, business intelligence. This is where the sweet spot of the market is for SAP. Social, mobile, any other buzzwords we can throw in there? I'm just kidding. SAP are working night and day. These guys are tech athletes. We're gonna burn the midnight oil to bring us the technology to bring change around this big data tsunami. We're pumping out data here on theCUBE. Customers are using iPads and iPhones to pump out big data, Dave, and mobility is actually a big part of it, but we heard on stage from the co-CEO Bill McDermid that business intelligence is the game changer. You talked about social media, you talked about data. So, George, first question, big data. Is that new to SAP? Instead, we're hearing more things like fast data. Talk about the data, role of data in the show here at SAP, and also the business intelligence market in general. So, to answer the question specifically, is big data new to SAP? A lot of ways big data has been enabled and around from not only SAP, but many of our customers for a good part of a decade. I think the velocity and change of how big data is effectively consumed, the rate of increase is that's the differentiation, that's the change that's happening in market. What I'm witnessing now is the amount of information that's getting produced on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, is exponentially greater than it was even two to three years ago. And so, the opportunities and challenges that come forward because of the big data opportunities that are in market now are much more front and center. And now, it is a CXO, CIO level issue that becomes much more prevalent in the boardroom as opposed to something that was probably in the hands of a data geek or an architect previously. And the huge amount of that data is, of course, unstructured. 90% of it now, it's being created as unstructured. I think IDC said 1.2 exabytes of data was created last year, you know, yeah, 1.2 exabytes, which is 1.2 million petabytes, a lot of data. And mostly unstructured. Your business, from an analytics perspective, has largely traditionally, anyway, been in the structured base. So what's changing? How do you adapt to that? So there's quite a bit that has been traditionally in the broader analytics market about structured data. And certainly that's the markets that have been serviced by analytics solution providers like ourselves for many, many years. One of the things I've seen is that, even in the past half decade or so, we're seeing much, much more structured information derived from unstructured data, right? Creating meaning out of unstructured data. Bringing structure to unstructured data. Yeah, absolutely. So business objects actually acquired a text analytics product many years ago that's very much embedded directly into our enterprise information management capabilities. So when you can go ahead and take unstructured views of information, derive meaning structure out of it, and then be able to map that against more traditional analytic views that starts to bring forward a different way that you can consume information that you weren't able to previously. So how do you do that? Is that sort of a unified information management approach? Is it just require new architectures? Give us a little insight there. No, I think it's much more additive than that. In a lot of ways, business objects has been a pioneer in delivering what's known as a universe. The capability of being able to bring data from all forms and shapes in the enterprise forward into a view that business users can very quickly consume, whether it be on a mobile interface or on their traditional device. What we see is that you can, and we have, put forward the structured information in a way that you can move it directly into the context of a universe, expose that as how people would naturally want to see information in their structured world and have that composite view naturally being delivered to them. So in this world of analytics, you have this tension going on between the business guys who want what they want, they want it now, they want it fast, they want it functional, and then the IT group that's trying to standardize. And there's been so much acquisition and consolidation that exacerbates the challenge. So how are you guys, first of all, are you hearing that and how are you guys dealing with it? So I do see a few things that are happening. We are seeing much, much more prevalence of particularly the decision making around information really getting in hands of end users and business users. And so there's two schools of thoughts and there's two types of customers that I've seen so far. One is that IT has become much, much more agile. The ability to get solutions in the hands of those business users faster driven by an IT organization. The second is that a lot of forms of Agile BI and intelligence in general is largely getting very much directly in the hands of business users and it's a business user LOB driven activity. And so both are actually very much relevant. We're seeing much more increase of in-memory data marks directly built for a line of business. We're seeing much more increase in the fidelity of what types and shapes of data go into the corporate and enterprise structure. The data warehouse market, hence the business intelligence market has changed significantly over the past few years. Most recently in the past two years. What can you share with our audience out there from your perspective? And also you talked to a lot of customers, SAP customers, non-SAP customers. What has really changed? I mean, we're seeing trends out there, also style of state memory for faster caching and response time for low latency and fast data as we call it. And we're seeing movements like Hadoop or Cloudera as a market leader and an open source distribution of things like Hadoop. This is changing, radically changing data warehousing. And then the business intelligence market just wasn't that agile like Bill McDermott was saying, you know, things are happening in real time. So enter real time, enter big data, enter these changes. What's going on in the data warehouse market? What has to change? What architecture needs to be in place to support the new model? Yeah, so I think one of the fundamental things that I've noticed in the data warehouse market that's changed is that memory is the new disk. Disk is effectively the new tape and tape is dead, right? So you're seeing this natural continuum now of information that's stored in a very hot fashion, analytically exposed, available, immediately queryable, exposed to a mobile interface, exposed to business intelligence that is instantaneous in its responsiveness.  Yeah, some fenced out warehouse, somewhere, it's like slow. At the same time, the data warehousing world is continuing to evolve, as you indicated, to really take into account the big data problems that are, and opportunities that are emerging in market. So the petabyte scale is now certainly something that is not unusual for most organizations to be considering. On a day-to-day basis. On a day-to-day, week-to-week basis, certainly seeing that kind of scale. And that really comes from information that's within the four walls of an enterprise, but also commingled, mashed up, incorporated with industry information, outside information, seamless information, and the social experience that comes through. And so what we're seeing now is that the use of Hadoop, the use of MapReduce-like functions almost behaves as the endpoint of a continuum, right? Where you want to be able to take the most unstructured form of information, but to bring that into your enterprise view. And then at the same time, have very fast analytic responsiveness at the, you know, in memory level that you can get a mobile experience for BI very much delivered in the hands of end users when they need the data at the moment they ask for it. Do you see those movements as complementary? Oh, absolutely. And then, so. Absolutely. There's a lot of talk about data scientists and new skill sets. Data artisans, data scientists. Do you see that, you know, creeping into the sort of traditional point on the spectrum? Or is that sort of still in the lunatic fringe? No, I think this is basically the year of the data scientists or the data artisan. I mean, these are the folks that were in the fringe for many years because they're kind of sat in the corner and munched data themselves and kind of came back with analytic insight. But largely, these are the folks that are the new content creators of Business Intelligence today. George, the, obviously, data is not like as elementary as say maybe just throwing a Ruby on Rails front end and cloud host something.  Computer science, there's a lot of science involved in some of this big data tech. You live that every day in order to get the kind of, you know, responses that you have. Like the early days of client server where you guys, essentially, your core company was born really through that massive growth at SAP. Cloud is kind of in that similar inflection point, some say. What is the role of standards? So standards are important for a lot of growth. Is it important when you have these kind of open horizontal stacks, or, you know, you got Oracle, obviously you want to go fully vertical. A lot of people are trying to own the stack. Hadoop, for example, is a new phenomenon. On structured days, a new phenomenon. Are standards important, or they don't think matter as long as there's some stack that can support the day they're sourced? I think in the early moments of any sort of revolution and shift that occurs, the standards are not the first thing that people think about. It's the use cases and what the opportunities are to take advantage of the shift that's possible. I think as you get into the maturity and really you get past the hype and the real, you know, business case. Meat and potatoes, meat on the bone, as we say. The revenue generation and the monetization of these technologies occur, then the standards definitely start to emerge. So for us at SAP, and particularly some of the team members in the Business Objects Division, a lot of what we think about is how to make sure that as we get into this era of big data, we make it more humanizable. We make it more accessible for end users that literally could not be able to consume that kind of information in a very easy to use consumable fashion, could get access to it in a way that isn't meant that big data is just for the statistician, just for the PhD. And so we see that largely being delivered by embedding services as best as possible into the stack in a way that when you expose it, you know, the big data elements into an end user, it's the most simplest consumption form possible. And right now, one of the most simplest consumption forms possible is what we're seeing in the mobile movement with iPhones, iPads, Android devices. So basically what you're saying is standards really don't matter, because they could be kind of holy wars, but really at the end of the day, de facto standards. In the early days, standards matter less. Like in the moment that we're in right now, I think the standards are too early to be set. I think as you get into the market starting to really monetize and have more and more business function around it, you are going to see those standards. So I'd say within the next three to four years, those standards are going to emerge. So the wave of data, data is flowing at us. This is a tsunami of data, as Mike Olsen at Cloudera quoted on the Cube in the past. Just the ingestion of data, the extraction of relevance out of the data, the intelligence out of the data, is it's just a massive bombardment to end users, to IT enterprises. And it's just this noise among the signal, right? So the noise barrier is high on the data. You know, obviously we can all think about Google search. You know, PageRank helps create good search results that makes a good filter. But now we have this omnidirectional network environment where this is a tsunami of data pounding us. We're broadcasting data here in the Cube. You guys have thrown out tons of data from the show. What's the new filter? Is the new filter the app framework that you guys are proposing? Is the new filter the data mining? Wherever there's a lot of data, there has to be filters. Semantic filters, some tech involved, and what's interesting is that you guys were showing on stage around the business intelligent is, well, if I can run scenario planning in near real time or real time being a query, you're essentially filtering the data. So you guys, you think about this every day, I'm sure. What's your angle on this?  How do you get there? Yeah, so a few years ago, I released a product into market which is known as Business Object Explorer. It was the first moment in time that BI became more consumable by a search and navigation, a filter that's in the process of really understanding how data moves. And so that was very much appreciated by the market and successful. I kind of see the next level of the filter emerge through social. So there's a lot of unused reports, dashboards, things that just aren't, you know, they're produced for the sake of production. And I see social intelligence largely coming from the fact that, what's the most frequently accessed? What's the most frequently commented? What's the most frequently shared? How do we feed that in a way? Interesting fish analogy that Snobby had on stage there. You know, school of fish. Sensor and response. And that's a crowdsourcing network phenomenon, right? Sensor network between the two fish, you know? I mean, that's a social dynamic. That's just tribute to computing, isn't it? It informed it is with a very human element to it. Absolutely, right? I think at the end of the day, there is a very human element to making sure that the things that are relevant to end user surface to the top, and you sense and respond around the things that aren't relevant, and those fall to the bottom. What's a secret to the social search in your opinion?  Is it the mash-up of data? Is that something that you're looking at? Is it, because when you intersect data sets, interesting things happen, right? So you can glean new data out of merged data sets. So you put A and B together, that creates C, right? Is that something that's relevant? Yeah, I think there's a few things that are progressing on the horizon around data, and what does that look like? The first and foremost thing is, I think when you create data, I almost feel that you need to always have a visualization that follows the data. So there's always kind of a default visualization that coherently goes along with any data that's ever produced. In a similar way, when you look at data and its forms, particularly as it becomes more usable by individuals, you got to get into forms that are more easily consumed by the devices that are now prevalent in the market, right? So I think that when you see where we've gone with a lot of our business intelligence solutions, we've invested pretty dramatically in not just what were the interfaces of the PCs that we have on this desktop, but also the mobile interfaces that are now emerging. And so on these interfaces on the mobile side, you have geo-located GPS-ready devices, right? So now you can take a time dimension to data, a spatial dimension to data, and bring it directly onto a mobile interface. And so that's what I see as kind of the next generation. What are the number one use cases? What are some of the use cases? Two questions, and then Dave, I'll let you jump in. I know you're chomping at the bit there. Well, the first question is use cases. What are some of the use cases that you're seeing now that tease out some of these future scenarios? Okay, that's one question. And the second, oh, answer that question, we'll come back to the other one. Use cases. You know, some of the description of what I made, say for instance, around time in geo-based understanding and how JDoS geo-coded better and being able to understand how things move in the context of analytic data. One of the examples that I see tremendously is logistics, travel, transportation, service management. So if you're doing a service workforce, right, that has to be routed effectively, and there are changes in what's happening in the information or where your assets are located, you need to be able to make that in real time, the changes, and be able to re-optimize and re-route. Dynamic, almost like runtime, as I say, right? And so in that case, if you don't have the analytic data, combining with the real-time view, offered up in a way that's delivered on a geo-map, right? You can't deliver it in a way that's going to be effective for the person that's in route, that's started his dad at nine o'clock and is gonna finish it at five, and he or she wants to get the most optimal experience of what they're responsible for. And so these kind of use cases are very much what I see as the next level of operational business intelligence in the enterprise. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE.tv, with Dave Vellante, my co-host at BostonBasePokieBond.org, we're at SiliconANGLE.tv, the worldwide leader in tech, live event coverage. This is theCUBE, our flagship product, where we extract the knowledge from the guests and the show to report back to you and share with the world, sharing his power, that's our motto, and the smart nodes connect here on theCUBE. We're here with George Matthew, who's the VP and General Manager of SAP's BI business, and, you know. Can I ask one more question? Yeah, sure. My second question, and then you go. So, obviously, with the ecosystem here, big play for EMC, developers are actually a part of that, with the apps that teases out, hey, there's some developers, since you're not going to be the app company for everybody, as we were talking about earlier in theCUBE, white spaces for developers. Obviously, having a partnership strategy has been core to you guys. Absolutely. What are some of the white spaces and areas that you guys are looking for, or looking to for support and or rising tide, floats all boats kind of philosophy? Yeah. So, one of the areas that we didn't really cover in this discussion was just where the cloud continues to evolve. So, one of the things I'm seeing now is that there's quite a bit of convergence of certain leaders in this market, right? And anytime there's leaders in certain areas of the market, how two leaders in complementary markets, for instance, converge, always is done through partners. And so, I think there is an incredible opportunity for ISVs, in this case, SIs, who are building solutions in market, as well as just straightforward reselling and distribution channels. In what areas? Like the in-memory stuff? Is it the HANA? I mean, the analytic stack is completely ripe for particularly ISVs and SIs, right? And where they get that information? On your site, is there a specific? Oh, yeah, yeah, from our Eco Hub, as well as just our broader channel and ecosystem partner solutions that we've brought to market. We are very much delivering business analytics in the most partner-friendly possible fashion. What's the competition like? Obviously, there's an emerging segment here with analytics. Again, you guys have an advantage here. I mean, I got to go back and do some digging, but apparently from what I'm seeing and talking to some of your SAP labs guys, is that this in-memory thing is pretty huge. I mean, you're talking about a speed incremental advantage that kind of moves the ball down the field. I think developers will flock to that if they can figure out how to fit into it. So we see a few things. As far as competition goes, we have had a seminal year in 2010. If you look at the overall business, it was well into the range of approximately a billion euros. So it was a pretty significant business in analytics for us. It was the fastest growing aspect of the overall market. And when I look at the competition, even look at the Gartner share report that came the last two weeks, we literally saw business intelligence grow an entire market share point of 24% while other players in the market actually lost share. So they're clearly winners and losers that are emerging in the overall business analytics space. And you're seeing us deliver and continue to deliver being the number one delivery provider of business analytics. We have George Matthew, Group Vice President General Manager of Business Intelligence. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE.com and we're talking about what's going on at SAP Sapphire on the ground, live coverage inside theCUBE. And it's a great event here, Business Intelligence and Analytics featured on both keynotes, extensively by both CEOs. And I'm sure tomorrow we're going to see it with the CTO. It'll probably show some lift the covers on some cool stuff. The analytics market is hot, obviously. How, what gets you excited right now?  If you think about it, SAP is as relevant as a Disney given the fact that, if you look at all the game platforms, the entertainment platforms, the business platforms that are actually being powered by SAP, you guys are a player, okay?  But the tech side, the platform side, this is transformation, cool. What are you excited about today in the second half of this year as you look around the corner? Yeah, I think there's a number of areas that are still unfinished business for SAP. And certainly Jim started to show a few of those areas today. You saw the first version of Sales on Demand as a fully cloud-based offering that is very much a connected service back into an on-premise solution for CRM. And so we do believe that as the cloud continues to radically grow and shape itself, that we are a prodigious player in cloud-based services for analytics and applications. And so we're very excited in terms of what is the next generation of cloud applications delivered effectively as a hybrid. We're going to be talking with Mark Milford coming up after you, who's the vice president of business development. Yeah. What do you think his focus is going to be? I mean, obviously, you guys do a lot of business at this show. I mean, I heard greater than 50% of your business is booked during this event. You guys pull out all the stops. We certainly do. What's the business agenda for SAP? What's the focus? So, clearly, Sapphire is an event we bring our customers, our partners together to have the meaningful conversation of how revenue happens this year. And certainly, that's where Sapphire has been well-known in market. From a business development standpoint, we see this as a seminal moment where you understand the business direction that SAP is headed and really sets the agenda for the rest of the year, right? You see the big deals that emerge within SAP's ecosystem largely happen because it cements itself here or the idea that's planted here. And then it actually moves into a germination stage where it profits from itself certainly through the rest of 2011. Final question for you, George, running business intelligence. What's the next five years going to look like? Five years from now, shoot the arrow forward. Where are we as an industry? Yeah, I think I alluded to a few elements earlier in the discussion. It's certainly going to be a much more social BI experience. Certainly, there is no question that big data is going to be everywhere. It's going to be pervasive. You're seeing a broader adoption of users that aren't just going to be looking at things from here's a transactional application, here's an analytic application, much more composite views of data and analytics delivered when you want to make the right decision, being able to write it back to a transaction the moment you make that decision. And so that view of a much more seamless experience, not only in how your data works, but also how end users are exposed even from a mobile perspective is where I see the world going in the next few years. Seamless experience for users, an enterprise of social, business intelligence, big data, composite applications, visualization. This is the future of tech. I predict wearable computers and SiliconANGLE will have a Hadoop distribution. Great stuff. That's a joke, by the way. I know, that's why I laughed. George, Matthew, thank you so much for coming on Inside the Cube. We really appreciate it. Thank you again. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Good job.


Hey, good day folks everybody Hello, Argentina one Really happy Super great Hey, Dimitri doing good Dimitri, do I know you? Good Dimitri, would you like to introduce yourself? Okay Okay Okay, let's see Our Documentation for today Feel free to add yourself to the attendees list. Uh, this is the aries did com v2 working group for uh, december 19th 2022 we meet weekly and Um, I should remind you about the hyper ledger antitrust policy, uh, and the hyper ledger code of conduct and Yeah, feel free to add yourself to the attendees list and Who else anybody else? Uh, no, let's see. We've got bruce and rhodo and hakan and judith So, uh, looks like no one else is new Great, okay. Um, let's see quick, um updates I am don't know of anything with aries agent test harness. Uh, I don't know Dimitri, are you interested in did com v2? Let's see here. I'll put you on mute If I can let's see Give me one second to Claim ownership Yeah, give me give me one second. I'll I'll claim host and then we can get started Okay, okay, I have the power now Do we need to record the meetings? Uh, no it, uh, I believe it auto records so though I can double check that Yeah, I see the rec button The recording, yeah Yeah, it is recording I think the record them got post this like not to this somewhere. I don't know Okay, I have ejected dimitri. Sorry for that Uh, let's go back to sharing That's the difficulty. I guess of an open meeting Okay, and of course Now my go okay and my screen has changed All right Yeah, sorry about that everybody Yes, we are recording. I think that that happens automatically for us All right updates. So aries agent test harness. I haven't done anything with that I've been meaning to but uh, I've been buried in um Kind of uh, basically a release that I need to get done for this week Uh, any anybody done anything with aries agent test harness or aries ascar Uh stuff Most of that should be good. Uh, I did post um in our chat channel um the Uh, I uh timo had posted about how they're hoping to handle Connections in afj, which is something that we've talked about with akapai and hakan and judas work Uh, so I did post Sorry, I think I know how to use the internet. Here we go. Um Yeah, basically timo gave some suggestions about their connection record and what they'd like to do Um, I think hakan took a look at it. Did you want to say anything about it hakan? Um, nothing particularly it it it looked like it is very similar to didx change But I think timo replied back to that comment and said it was related to didcon v1 if I remember correctly so, uh Yeah, I mean overall in general it looks very similar to what Endpoint of didx change would do like look at the public did if you find that resolve it and uh Yeah, establish a connection basically Okay Yeah, very good. Thank you Um And then uh, yeah for today the topics that I've posted, uh, so nick reynolds Posted his libpdp Didcon contribution as a pull request Might be worth looking at I started to look at it, but I haven't made it completely through yet Uh, essentially Yeah, he gives quite a bit of information here Um, did anybody else uh take a look at this yet? It's it's nice because um, yeah, it's libpdp has um quite a bit of Functionality added to it including there's people who have built like bluetooth, uh uh transport Support and things like that Anybody else uh know more about it? Well Something to be aware of so I put it up there Um, yeah, I'm looking forward to to going through that Uh, and then I thought for today we could essentially keep working, uh on our Our ari's interrupt profile three, but let's go around and do uh updates first if anybody has updates from their projects And how it's going Maybe uh bruce if you want to start Yeah, nothing's happening now our students are taking their Their went their holiday break I I do Have some questions about Well, just one question, which is Did we get them started correctly on didcon v2? We have them Um implement a did exchange protocol But I believe did exchanges for v1, so I'm not quite sure what you should have them start Yeah, that that seems to be a Repeating confusion between didcon v1 and v2. It's not um I guess it's not intuitive to think that there is not a did exchange step That that that was part of maybe the simplification of uh didcom in didcon v2 um I'm glad Yeah, so essentially receiving a didcon v2 um a message is essentially how you're establishing the connection Um, did we want is is there a good um guide? um or That the the guy would yeah, yeah, yeah Which is good. I think the Hello war Yeah starting using and I guess the thing is does but this probably doesn't warn someone that Things have changed between didcom v1 and v2 For instance, they would be natural. It's not related to to v1. So nothing. Yeah v1 Yeah, so may that's actually fine for the students who haven't encountered v1 It's just challenging for those of us who are guiding them Yeah Fair enough that will help um Yeah, I think uh I guess it Yeah, if you follow the starting and using Starting using and ending a didcom connection will guide you how to establish Normal connections just a simple message. I think that's the way Can be handled easily without the change Of course that's dependent on the library because if uh as hack and point out if you have a library v1 And it's being trans translated to v2 Then that library may require something like like a protocol to To establish the final connection and set up in the in the database But didn't come be too simple stated can be too. It's just one message One way and then you can replay back and establish the connection on the other side Thank you. Thank you, bro. That's that's helpful. I will study this And um the students are actually if I understand it correctly building their own Didcom v2 library, so Right, right, but they do speak python. So I think I think well python. That's python. So So they're gonna They can use it. This is a notebook. So they can test it on On the cloud. So Okay, thank you Yeah fair enough Okay, thanks bruce Um, let's see How can you want to give any updates for this week? um I don't think I have any points from for for this week Okay, there was no additional Yeah, topics that I worked on related to this computer, but maybe Judith has something to um, yeah that And not really unfortunate because I was sick during the whole week, right? Yeah Hmm. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Yeah, that's that's A lot of people out sick right now and then of course holiday stuff. So Yeah, fair enough. Um, I do think did we talk about it before I guess uh, our We won't meet uh next week Uh, I think so I think I updated the calendar Uh for us we'll meet again. Let's see here Just double checking It could be january 9th from yeah the 9th The 9th should be back. Yeah, very good. And I just want to make sure I removed it Yeah, I did remove it from the calendar. So they gave me permission for that. That's right. So Good stuff, okay And then uh, alex and roto either either review of updates you want to give Nothing on my side Okay Okay Great, and I'm not missing anybody. Yeah. Okay. Good. All right. So let's take a look. Um At the areas in our profile three and Yeah, we could add some things to this Uh, just go through it Uh, I think most of you have seen it, but um, I don't think we've actually just you know taken a session here To go through it If that's good with everybody Um, okay, so Is everyone happy with this initial Um base requirements For ap3 what do we need to add we have the spec did come v2 which includes these protocols On top I think it is interesting that basic messaging is separate Am I right? I think yeah, it's down here Is that do we feel like that's right to be separated from The base requirements Is from my point of view it makes sense because Once we have the did come covered We want to use it for different purposes and basic messaging is one of those Purposes basically I would compare it to having this protocol similar to credential exchange protocols But yeah, on the other hand, we do have base requirements for credential exchange. Hmm It it does seem a little weird to me that uh, that there could be I did come implementation without basic messaging Uh, and then yeah, you're right that then we're showing Transfer of credentials I would imagine Well, I guess I guess it doesn't matter to say which one's more important or or more common, but uh, yeah Any any thoughts on that? Yeah, well, but basically just for a chat application at least this Is for two persons talking right It's just a specific type of message Yeah, I don't only I think it's only can be used for for a chat, right? Yeah Anyway so Did then did we want to peel this portion out in terms of Being able the the wacky well it says wacky packs, but uh Wacky did come Is that something we want to separate as well or or at least comment that that we think should or do do we want to leave it here? I would I mean If you look into the first IEP AIP one and two, I think Those are really related to Aries and that's really related to issue holder verifier issuing credentials and presenting credentials Like as what what what's it's supposed to do? And if you look into the AIP 3.0 also from the same perspective and that's the if Then I think this is fine the way it is because we're covering everything related to ditcom support functionalities to issue be able to issue and present credentials Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah Si okay perspective because we're asking our students to Implement I guess to follow the spec for ditcom v2. I guess and We don't intend to issue credentials or require groups We'll we'll be defining a A custom pico specific protocol on top of ditcom v2 and that's as far as we're going to go So from that perspective, it would be nice if if If our students could say, yeah, we're AIP 3.0 with no options Whereas yeah If there's a credential exchange and proof Portion that's required to be AIP 3. Then they won't reach that But that's a that's a strange way to think about it. Yeah, that makes sense a good point Yeah Yeah, for sure And it kind of gets back to what we talked about before where We're trying to help people to know the common path, but also like the The the the simplest Uh support that they need first in order to kind of add the optional things And so we've even talked about wacky being something like oh, you know wacky did come simple You know not even implementing everything from from wacky did come so I do I I am concerned that Someone new coming in they don't really know uh, and then they see this And they're saying okay Like this is what I need to support and then they get into like wacky did come let's say and then they're like Wow, this is a a lot of work. Maybe I won't do this, you know, uh, this is these are the lessons of jff Which by the way, I met with Sharon from jff this week and just was trying to convey to her that It was really valuable uh that they kind of created to the jff challenge to have these multiple tracks with oidc and and and did come now they are focused on transferring credentials, but because they you know created a did come track and and um Alex worked with uh snore and brian rickter and which Maybe alex if you want to give any updates on that you can in a second, but um I guess the lessons learned from that is uh part of the reason that this group group meets is because of of the Difficulty that that those groups went through as they were coming up to speed uh on did come and specifically did come v2 And so yeah, I that's why this concerns me the way that it is Those are my thoughts alex any any updates on jff for thoughts on those things Yeah, I mean, I think what you're saying like makes sense like also in terms of like the watch attack specification Like in the afj meetings, you're mentioning how like we need to upgrade to like 3.1 and 3.2 to like issue multiple credentials at the same time So from that perspective, I think that the issuance and exchanging of credential is only going to get like more complicated in terms of like Uh, I think you can break it down to like hey, you can send the credential Or like hey, you can request a credential before sending one or like hey You can request multiple before sending one or I can request multiple before sending multiple That's like the different configuration of walkie packs per se and uh, yeah, I think It's relatively high degree entry, but I hope that most developers won't have to write the low level code of doing the protocol exchange uh And they just have to worry about like the business logic of like what credentials they're sending through um, at least that's how I'm visioning and an agent on my behalf like I'm not trying to um If I were to be a developer to use an agent, I wouldn't go ahead and like implement my own protocol I would just kind of like whatever that agent protocol has I would just work with that um Yeah, believe my thoughts but just um See I guess one of the things when I was talking to Sharon and She had done a she did a presentation actually at diff the the diff I think interop Meeting, uh, which is what sparked me to want to meet with her. Um but the I My sense is that Everyone came out of this or at least Sharon and people who who are watching closely they came out of it thinking. Okay did come is complicated and so they didn't make as much progress as The oh idc. What do they call it dc or something? Uh track and what was the other track? Was it? It was a vc api like the hcdp Okay, chappie. Yeah Yeah, okay So so my yeah if if everyone comes out of that and and what I tried to explain in the diff interop meeting is Okay, well part of the reason that that did come, uh, you know, maybe went slower is For one thing we're in the middle of we're in this, you know space of you know, did come v1 implementations existing and did come v2 implementations being very new and You know teams just having to decide are we going to do v1 or v2 and then you know a v2 Team kind of formed and people are building their own implementations because they want to learn But then, you know, there's all these pain points about crypto and even just did methods and things like that So yeah, yeah, I agree that did come is more complicated. I wouldn't say it's necessarily like more complicated I think that the problem there is that The other two groups had like more tooling available to the developers. So like right imagine if like Chappie had a problem between like hcdp1 and like hcdp2, right? Yeah, but everybody knows hcdp like which protocol to use So that's kind of like the struggles that we were encountering with our implementation So like a lot of like the low level stuff was not matching up whether we'd like chappie and oidc connect They already had the libraries kind of like working together and all they had to do is implement the flow Whether the the problems that we had was like slightly different than those So yeah, that's why I think like From like a did come v2 perspective and also like we kind of like started late So trying to troubleshoot all those low level A problem we didn't like anticipate for that Yeah, so yeah, that's kind of like The issue there because yeah, like brian was able to Talk to brian like recently and like he was able to work like the the chappie The extension in like two days since like everything was already there and you can then watch happy pretty much But just simply copying and switching a couple of variables around and that would be it. So yeah So is is anyone else in this group kind of concerned about those things or Is this something that you know, we're just we have a recency bias and you know our own experience type bias Should it be our focus As part of the aip 3.0 To make it very clear kind of what is Most common and what's available for for developers as tooling and for us to focus on you know, making sure that that The tooling that's needed is a high high priority and that the community areas community and beyond has it Um How much should those kinds of thoughts be affecting aip 3.0 3.0 Yeah, I personally think we should try to pretty much figure out like the minimum basic requirements Right because right now if you use did come be to you're most likely using the peer And not using any other did method Uh, and that's because of the library support, right? It's not because people don't want to use other did methods And whenever you try to integrate different did methods, it's relatively challenging for the outcome libraries So yeah, trying to figure out like a minimum set of requirements like signature schemes elliptic curves that we're using for like Uh, an agent just so they can talk to another agent It's uh, I think would be helpful. Yeah other thoughts Yeah, I agree. It's just like I think Well, the aip shouldn't matter on the what toolings or or maybe Work on the tooling side but working on putting what is it this minimum and The minimum protocols and maybe even go farther and say on this protocol. We're using that way For example, uh static prd id That's three type of prd id. I go zero one and two I think So so say which one and that way or also maybe on the mediator How we put the routine d id in the service endpoint just to agree and How we're gonna do it for aip three and if you do it that way Your your case will pass, right? So that's So is that how how would you like to document those things? Here Some says for example, for example, this feature 6 27 static prd id Some current says he's gonna update that to he's gonna create a new one with that in mind So he's gonna change that that was uh mentioned the last eighties call last week Okay, probably there we should put like paragraph that if you're using deep peers with a mediator you should put the service endpoint in this this way Right, so everybody can understand When they receive a routine d id on that path Work can be structured Let's see Can you say that again using did peers in a mediator? Yeah, when you when you use Listen, here we were agreeing where we are gonna do did it come be to with deep peers, right? Yeah, the minimum And then if you use a mediator The mediator give you a routine d id That routine d id will be part of your service in your d id document. So We should agree in a way where we should put that d id that routine d id But because the the specification is not that clear There's a field called routine keys. There's a ui. That's something that I There's a threat on the on on the discord uh chat regarding that and I I say something then Steven say another option team or another one brian Different one. So there's many many ways to do the same and the end is the same Yeah, using the routine d id Yeah, okay so, um Any other thoughts in terms of breaking out? Well, wacky did come or wacky pecs as it used to be called Breaking it out into a separate section I would like to put in another plug for For following the layering of trust over ip Yeah See did con v2 On layer two if I follow the spec and perhaps the static peer dids. Yeah creators And i'm a ip 3 at layer of three of Of trust over ip if I in addition have at least one I implement at least one method for exchanging credentials Yeah Um, I I think I would argue that a ip 3 is actually having components or rfc's from all three Bottom layers like on the bottom we have for example the static peer dids Is one of the features that are supposed to be implemented on the area of agent layer. We do have the did come um as an encryption envelope and Yeah on upper layers or like on the Layer three we would have the exchange protocols issue credential present proof That's a good point. I had forgotten layer one which is also involved Because in our project we're only using peer gates We're not using any dvr's right yeah so Lance I I think my question would be We are going to have a profile and this profile is important. So once two Agents are creating a quite establishing a connection using this conv2 like the um, yeah protocols And they would be able to So what exactly what what would that mean like is it? Does it mean that they can exchange a set of Credentials Does that mean that they can exchange messages like by a basic messaging? Or does it mean something else because with the base requirements what I'm having a bit of a problem is Okay, let's say I support all that base requirements, but I don't support anything else I won't be able to communicate. I won't be able to write messages I won't be able to issue credentials because I don't support for example jc ld attachment or anum cred attachment Or I don't know what the third attachment was so Just with the basic requirement. It doesn't mean that I can't even test whether I have a Well, maybe we could test with discovery features discover futures, but Like I said, you wouldn't be able to exchange any Basic messaging or you couldn't be able to do Issue credentials or present proof because of the attachment formats and I think Yeah, but I think the attachments are on the optionals right and then I think you should pick one optional At least the main plus one of the optionals and find another Asian that that has at least the same Yeah, but what do those optionals mean? That's the part that I don't get like is it optional in terms of it can be Nothing it can be you you have to choose at least one or All of them That's that's true. Yeah, that need to mean more Specified they are what what it means, but I I mean for my point of view I would say, okay, I got a I built a nation that has the base requirement and understand shays on ld So let me pass at least all the tests that That made that Correct, right and maybe I need to find an acapiation that has This same requirements plus shays on ld and all those tests are gonna pass So I'm gonna be confident that that my asian that I built Can't communicate with with others in that specifics Yeah boys, right But maybe maybe that that's something in the aip protocol. We should really state that right make a huge part of our staying Okay, this is the way we think This is this is it Yeah Yeah, I didn't think like personally I don't think that agents should like determine what credential formats they use like because do you try to Figure out credential format to use like in the actual walkie-packs protocol like hey I'm trying to issue you like a jwt credential like do you accept it and you can like hey, I cannot support jwt credentials uh Like I'm not sure that you can like do that at the discovery level of the agent It's like maybe you can do like hey this agent supports just an ld credentials only But yeah, like I'm seeing like a multi format world or like you're gonna have to support all of them eventually So yeah, I think it's going to be a matter like on how you want to go about Telling people like hey, I'm only supporting this and then we're gonna support other ones in the future That's that's a very interesting point. Alex you use the word eventually because our Our methodology with picos is that when we can grab some students we have them do a small piece And then next year we will build on top of it in some way I was also intrigued by An analogy Do that will only be understood by the by by people in this call Which is we we were visited What we're using zoom as a transport layer to communicate And we were visited by dimitri Who was able to use english, which is The basic interrupt profile for this meeting And we were able to have a brief interaction with him to discover that we had nothing further to do with each other And that to me that would be the base layer of a ip3 You can you can you can meet another agent on whatever transport They you and they are You can have a brief conversation and you may realize that there is nothing further you can do with that agent and it's and it's over Or you may find as as one of you said earlier you may find that there is some Some further thing that you have in common. Maybe you both do Basic message and you can chat Or or maybe you both have one of the configurations for Exchanging credentials in common and then you can work together Yeah, that's that's really good bruce um, I so Just building on top of that then would we say that um You know trust ping is not necessary for instance, uh, but discover features seems to be Like this initial interop Uh spot and we've talked about, uh, you know, maybe even having something above that that That that people can agree on just so that they can complete Uh the discover features um You know transaction or exchange, um but Assuming that, uh, you know, the other things are taken care of Uh, then do we agree that that maybe discover features is where we would want Um, a didcom Aries interop profile 3.0 compliant agent to start I I don't I would I would say the full spec did come be to a spec Yeah, right. Trust me is well. Yeah, why if you do discover feature what trust me is more basic than that so Yeah, but uh, if if you had two agents and again, we're talking about an like interop profile here. So I What I keep seeing what what I think is a reoccurring theme is that uh You know, let's take bruce's group, right? They're going out to you know, let's get started with didcom And okay, we're going to do didcom v2 and then they have their They have their requirements, right? They have the things that they're interested in and and and you know I was I I showed my uh bias this morning today Basically saying like uh, shouldn't basic message be here because I'm thinking basic message Is something that that you know is this base level thing, but it's not right? I think uh, I think we're basically we're saying that uh, it isn't um, so If if we were going to have someone do I didcom Uh challenge or implementation Uh Or usage I should say and and it's going to be an aip 3.0 Uh Usage then I don't think that trust ping is something that you would it's a nice place to start You know, it's it's kind of a hello world Right, but it it's not the thing that uh, you need in order to be aip 3.0 in order to be aip 3.0 You kind of need to know What what can you do? I I you know, I'm here. What can I do and what can you do? Okay, but for that you also need out of one, right? You need to start the conversation So you need out of one and you need discover feature Yes, I I agree. I think we're discovering the number zero Right Yes, what what is right the number zero and yeah, I would be fine with Saying that out of band has to be supported. Uh, you know, uh, and then so trust being so so simple So simple that that would all together is No, I I agree that it is the but again if you wanted someone to do, you know, be minimally aip 3.0 Do you need trust ping trust pings easy? Yeah, why not if something that we need to to define that's you define what it is. Why discover feature? What it is? discover feature Well discover feature. Can can can you do it? I can do everything without discover features, right? You you feel like you can do interop without discover features? Yeah Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's on the message. Don't give a reply. So that's it If I ask for a credential, we see the credential and we're okay So that's why we're putting all together. So yeah, that's Minimum trust being out of one discover feature Routing if you need it, but if not, it's okay Yeah, the Sorry, roto if if I come to the table saying I'm aip 3 And the other agent sends me a discover features request and I don't respond then clearly We have nothing further to say to each other Which is fine But we interoperate at the zero level In other words, we can hear each other's messages And and we can then determine that there's nothing further to do But that that does feel like You're doing did come And that's not quite like a interop profile So how come you've got your hand up and how can I had said like, you know, what is the point of of aip 3.0? I'm trying to You know try to add different constraints on you guys and see what the what the response is In order to kind of Fair it out like, you know, we're not talking did come v2 here. We're talking aip 3.0, which uh, you know needs did come. So the question is like, but what is that minimally? Look like so that we don't put any extra burden on on an implementer Again, if they hook up, let's say their agent to the ari's agent test harness and you You know, literally have a tag in there that says aip 3.0 Which means run run these tests run my agent against these tests that are aip 3.0. I would love That to be like, hey you achieved we'll say level zero of aip 3.0 But the question is what is that, you know, what belongs in there? So that's kind of the way I look at it How can yeah um I think I agree with you and also According to these base requirements We could actually detach the issue credential and present proof from from the base requirement itself because If you look into The other requirements that are here expect except the revocation notification now Um, it's it's all related to did come so that you can actually establish a connection using did come via out of band or Trusting is a part of the did come spec. You discover features the part of the did come spec routing is a future of the did come spec so if we want to do the did come be to If you want aip 3.0 based on did come be to then we would need to support these Protocols that are written within the spec of did come according to the diff so that's why I think we should have all trust pink out of band discover features routing But this is something that I don't think we should Dispute because it's already in the spec and if you want to dispute it Then I think we should bring it out to the diff working group um and also Yeah, my second point would be if we want then we could take the Exchange protocols out of the base requirements and put it into credential exchange area Yeah, I support it. Yeah, because it's we can write the Aip 3 in a different way as the other and say exactly what what it means Little zero or whatever we want to call it It just did the come be to We did it peers and then the others. Yeah, like credential exchange mediators and Yeah other thoughts. I mean I I Are people warming up to this idea of the aip 3.0 having kind of a level zero and maybe even a Maybe we have other tracks that are like uh We'll say like credential exchange level one or something like that like a way of of again guiding somebody towards like here our minimal common paths that will help you to Hopefully interrupt with someone else for the the use case and the requirements that you have Yeah, it's to me level zero sounds like the big conv2 spec Uh in terms of like the features that like I'm hearing about is like, hey Like you they implement the conv2 spec or I kind of like you don't um and then uh Yeah, so like I feel like that We can already have that like with the peer libraries and You can do some like you can kind of spin up with some minimal scripts in python, right with the the sick by libraries we did peer so you can have like that Demo like interoperability But once you really start to do like anything that's not Demo like It's going to get challenging to figure out exactly the credential format signature types Making sure like everything works, right? Like all the models are mapped properly That's when I kind of it becomes like more dicey I think they will already have that level zero interoperability level where we can talk Between different like transport layers since that's defined the big conv2 spec in it of itself. It's transport agnostic uh Yeah, that's kind of like I agree with arcane as well From from the perspective in terms of like we should implement at least minimally everything that's implemented in the spec okay now is that In reality is that is is that what's in the sick by libraries right now for instance Yeah, because like the problem that we had with jff is that snore and brian they used the did web So had they used it peer it would have been like A breeze So that was the only issue there. It was like a new method Problem like it wasn't like the the messages themselves were like too complicated or whatnot The reason why we had to break down the messages is because we didn't have enough time and The encryption wasn't working. So like we tried to like reduce The message exchange so we didn't have to implement all the underlying cryptography since it wasn't working in the first place But had we had all of the low level stuff implemented like Writing walkie packs as an exchange. It wouldn't be that big of an issue because If you just support jwt all you have to implement is like those fose library and most developers are like familiar with jwt's and and whatnot Rather than jsonlb or an on creds or The iso mdl spec that eventually is going to be and whatnot okay so Shall I comment then on on pulling these out into as optional Is that is everybody okay with that for wacky pecs for for issue credential and present proof And I think relocation like because relocation is regarding Okay, so all three of these Uh suggesting Is everybody okay with me putting the comment that the aries did conv2 working group Would like to consider pulling Revocation notification issue credential And present proof into An optional section. I guess just to be able to advocate Aren't we just then implementing that it can't be to spec if you don't have like the issue credential in there Well, I think that the at least one difference would be specifying the peer did And and and that at least shows like if we were again to put it in in terms of the trust over ip stack um That would show layer one, you know, what is you know, it's nice to have super simple layer one You know go peer did right? Uh layer two Did come v2 implementation, right? And then essentially we're saying layer three stuff is all these optional things That maybe we have uh, you know documentation that says Okay, these things are optional, but you know, here's here's a common path for issuing credentials or you know, whatever it might be Thoughts on that. I mean it seems like very little but it sounds like Alex for jff for instance, you know, it would be what you guys would have been way more successfully if if that had been, you know, specified That way possibly Yeah, definitely. I think it would have been helpful if we can just have agreed on like using deep tiers Uh, yeah, but we didn't know that the libraries support for adding new deep methods were that wonky Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah, that's what we want people to kind of understand is You know, okay, maybe this this may seem trivial to you, but uh, you know, trust us it's not right or something like that Uh, and there's probably something else that we're not quite thinking about yet that might also go in kind of this minimal You know layer one layer two There might be something in there that we're not thinking of although I wouldn't know you got you would know better so um I mind your point Lancer could soften the blow by By uh saying into a recommended optional section or something like that. Okay. Yeah Then that that's a nod to the fact that it that it had been in the base right as some someone said earlier, I think I think it was alexa. How come um, we eventually we would want to support not just The the walkie-packs way of doing credentials, but also at least one of the others and perhaps all of them eventually but But you work your way up yeah and yeah Sorry go ahead Okay, yeah, and Right and so that might also be our opportunity to say uh, okay Here's this thing called wacky pex light or wacky did come, you know, minimal or you know, basically saying Okay, this is inspired by wacky did come If you implement this your your you know, we'll say we'll pretend it's 33 of the way there for for wacky did come but you can start interupping with other people who have implemented You know wacky did come simple Does that seem reasonable alex based on your experience and and or yeah, and anybody else thoughts Where we've got uh four minutes three minutes um I'm trying to think sorry, uh, I guess like what I'm trying I'm not sure that So like the problem is not like the the wacky pex itself I just defined like the messages they need to be sent back and forth And like that's not hard in and of itself, right? Like you just it's some headers So you got to put on in different messages. The hard thing is like doing like supporting the actual description And like the do you support credentials definitions credentials presentations? um, this for json ld Like a json ld processor Um, those are like the other things. It's uh, not necessarily like I don't think that wacky pex like whether like you asked for Getting a credential first or not Is that challenging is actually like doing the validation like do you need to do that? Or all that kind of stuff because like you can always omit it In the wacky pex like some steps are optional already in there So like you don't have to request a credential you can just like pay like propose a request And then like accept the request and then like you can issue a credential and then accept the credential So I think it's relatively minimal already in the sense that it doesn't define how to like send multiple credentials at once Or that kind of stuff Yes, like i'm not sure like Breaking that down even like the wacky pex like even further because then all you just do is just like issue a credential and That would be it In my opinion because yeah, like the credential manifest is already optional in wacky pex Tell me something. Yeah, so um If you When uh, when if you do discover features Does it tell you? Hey, uh, okay. I support uh wacky pex But I didn't implement these optional pieces I'm going to assume it's not we or traditionally hasn't been that expressive not that you couldn't do it Uh do it using discover features, but you get what i'm getting at right that that again this discoverability Okay, if there is a bunch of parts that are optional, uh, how do I know if if you did it or not? Do I just start we just try and then we break or you know, it would be nice to you know Be able to discover ahead of time uh I guess, uh, you'd be nice to discover ahead of time to do Like what's the use case? I guess like i'm trying to figure out. Hey, yeah So I want to do like request a credential, but like you don't support me asking for credential Like what's the I was I was thinking more like uh, so you had mentioned like credential formats For instance, what if what if you wanted to say something like hey, my preference is that you give me a credential in uh json ld But so you do that you do that whenever somebody like in the wacky pex protocol That's when you do that. It's like hey, I'm trying to send you a jwt credential Do you want to accept it and then you can say yes I want to accept it and then like the next message is like somebody that's issuing you that credential With the data that they send you in the propose and then you can accept that or like you can decline the proposal So like that's when you would do that Yeah, fair enough It's like hey, these are like what proof types do you support? What credential do you support? Like I'm proposing this credential Do you want to accept it or not? So that's already done at the wacky pex level like let's get negotiated in in there. Yeah Okay Yeah, gotcha Okay, any last parting thoughts because that's our time um Is everybody feel all right with the direction we're heading Yeah, maybe one thing that I would like to add or ask to the aries community because I mean most of The people participating in here is if I understand correct not using aries framework as as a underlying Yeah framework, let's say I would like to ask this as well to the aries community who are who worked on the aip 1 0.0 and 2.0 to get like a bit of background information about like what was the perspective that they were taking on Like was it the perspective of credential issuance was the perspective of fulfilling the interactions that are happening between issue holder verifier Or was it more general and depending on it. I think you will have a better direction of like having the aries into a profile tree Yeah, good point And learn from that perspective, but then I think bringing this new perspective of hey This is a group of people who are who I actually have to deal with did come be too, right and and and you know Maybe the perspective has Has shifted now, you know, obviously bruce is uh, okay. Yeah. I think that's perfect Okay, well, I think there is a meeting the user group meetings later today for for diff And so that could be an opportunity and then aries working group Uh, has been covering aip as well. I think on wednesday, so that's been really good with sam So, okay. Did you send me that link? Please lens the one for the aries one. I'm not aware of that one. Thank you Yes. Yeah, sure I will do that right now other than that any other parting thoughts Happy holidays to everyone Okay That's right. They'll be celebrating for four years now Yeah, that's good Okay, the yep the link to the latest aries working group people are you know, obviously free to jump off But I just wanted to get that into the chat Very good. Great to see you all Uh, we'll get together in the new year. Yeah. Goodbye. Good. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye Thank you


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the newsroom for tech and telecom professionals. I'm Dean Perine, and welcome to JSATV. We are here in the windy city of Chicago, Illinois at the ITW 2016 show, and I am sitting with the CEO of Metro Optic, Mr. Michael Huchet. Michael, welcome to JSATV. Thank you very much, I'm glad to be here. Well, thank you for being here. We're gonna start by letting our viewers know a little bit about Metro Optics. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Okay, I'm very happy to do that. So we are a provider of strategic fiber solutions in Canada, and we have two businesses. We have the Metro Optic business, which is a fiber business, and we have a data center business that is branded ICE data centers, which stands for interconnection and colocation for the enterprise market. What's really special about us is that we have a very unique position in Canada, where we sit on the highway for the internet between Europe and the US. So much of the data flows through Canada because Hibernia just opened up their Hibernia Express cable, and among other routes, it much of the data flows through Canada that is destined for the US, but also is destined westwards towards Asia. Very good, so since we're talking a little bit about Canada, why don't you tell us a little bit about the interconnect center that you have in Montreal? Yes, so because we are at the nexus of the data flow, it's very important to provide to our customers a center where they can not only host data, but they can also interconnect to the eyeballs. So if you think about Canada, it's a large market, it's 40 million people, and so there is a business need to connect with 40 million people, but then there's also the business need to take your data further into the US and to connect to providers. So we provide the interconnection to short-haul, long-haul, and through the metro optic network within Montreal to the major enterprises and data centers. Fantastic, so that actually provides a nice segue for my very next question, and that is your targeted verticals, customers who are those targets? Yeah, great question. It's a bit of everything, but we see our strongest traction in the cloud market, and the cloud providers are in Canada for two reasons. One is that they have a very low cost to co-locate there. It's about four to five cents per kilowatt hour versus in the US where most metropolitan areas are three to four times that. But the other thing is also that they need to interconnect to get to Europe and to get to Asia, and it's a very neutral location. It's, Canada is obviously not subject to the Patriot Act, so many of our European clients take advantage of that and co-locate and then interconnect at our facility in Montreal to reach the eyeballs either south of the border or going westward. Very good, so lots of interesting things happening there, Metro-Optic, so excellent. So tell us about the interesting things that are gonna happen, say, in the next six months. What's new? You tell me. Well, I assume more great stuff, right? Yes, yes, more great stuff. We are opening another facility in Toronto. It's gonna be a very large data center, and we're building a very hush-hush connectivity strategy around that. We'll keep it hush-hush here, too. We'll keep it hush-hush, good. So it'll be a high-density interconnect center as well. And then we're continuing to develop our center in Montreal. So our big announcement is we just won Telio Sonera, which means that we have now four out of the five biggest IP transit companies as our customers, and that is critical, and we hope to have more to come. Outstanding, so for our viewers that are interested in knowing about the latest and greatest at Metro-Optic, where should they go? Well, they should go to our website, MetroOptic.com. I think that's a quite comprehensive website in terms of our products, but also our approach to business. Because we are at a global interconnection point, we speak English, we speak French, we speak Spanish, and we understand the needs of both our telecommunication providers. So for example, we have an AC and a DC plant on site. AC being enterprise class, AC, DC being carrier class, DC plant, and we also help them get to other locations through our own proprietary fiber builds. So in the dark fiber market, it is really a position that is now quite unique because we're the remaining independent provider in Canada. Very good, Michael, thank you very much for being with us here today. We greatly appreciate it, and thank you viewers for watching JSA-TV. We'll see you soon. Thank you.