Amen. So we're going to get through most of Acts chapter 4 this evening. Of course, we went through the first few verses last week. We talked about how we kind of looked at the success of the apostles and how many people they were getting saved and how that relates to us being in the last days and them being in the last days, but we're not at the end yet. We looked at that at the first part of the book of Acts. Just looking at just the successes that the early church was having and comparing that to what we can see today. So we're going to start off in about right around Acts chapter 4 and verse number 13 this evening. We're going to go up to about verse 31 and then I'm going to roll those last few verses into Acts chapter 5. So we are going to start Acts chapter 5 next week, but there's kind of a different idea that is presented there that I want to roll into what happens in Acts chapter 5. So we're going to finish up the main idea of Acts chapter 4 this evening. So look down at verse number 13. So what have we seen so far? We see Peter and John and here they are and at the beginning of Acts chapter 4, they were put in jail or put in some kind of confinement overnight and 5,000 people got saved. But then there was this guy that remember they performed a miracle themselves. So this was in Jesus that did this. They actually, they healed this man that was at the gate, beautiful of the temple. Everybody knew who this guy was. They healed this man. He was sick for a long time. So people knew that this was a great miracle. It was his life was a testimony that he was healed. Look at verse number 13. Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John. So of course they get out in the very next morning they just keep preaching Jesus. When they saw the boldness of Peter and John and believe that they were unlearned and ignorant men. So this is super important here. They marveled. So this is the Pharisees and the Jewish leaders here at the time. They marveled and took knowledge of them that they had been with Jesus. So this is interesting right here. Verse number 13 because the Bible here says that Peter and John were unlearned and ignorant men. It's not being mean. It's not it's it's saying that they were just they were ordinary people is what it's saying.  Well, that's just man wrote the Bible. All right, so here's the thing. If man wrote the Bible, if Peter and John and Matthew and Luke and Paul and all these people, all these, you know, dozens of authors that wrote the Bible, if it was written by man, which we know it couldn't have been, but if it was these men were geniuses. They were geniuses of the scripture. I mean for Peter and John to be able to write, you know, the things that they wrote in the New Testament that perfectly matches without error every single thing that was written by other, you know, authors of scripture in the Old Testament, they would have had to have been, you know, Bible scholars, scriptural scribes, just geniuses in themselves, but they were fishermen.  How could they know these things? And so they deduced that he had, they had been with Jesus. They had actually, they're apostles. They were witnesses, but the point is they were unlearned and ignorant men. So that would have to be false if the Bible was written by man. They would have had to have been geniuses, but then even if they, let's say that they were geniuses, it still makes no sense for these geniuses to make up this lie, to study their whole lives, make up this lie, write these scriptures, and then, you know, get nothing out of it except, you know, poverty and torture and death. It makes no sense that they would do that. Okay, of course we know that they were moved by the Holy Spirit and that's where the Bible came from, but the point is even the Pharisees here knew that they were unlearned and ignorant, which is why God chose them, by the way. God operates that way, which is why, you know, God only had Gideon take 300 men. You know, this is why God does this. So God shows his power and not our power.  I'm giving the gospel to somebody and I'm giving the gospel to this kid and he's just like, well, you know, I'm just not the smartest kid out there.  That's Peter and John. So this is God, how he operates so he can show his power. So he can show his power. Here's these men speaking with boldness. I mean, think of, forget the Pharisees for a minute. Think of the people. Think of the witness that this was to the people as, I mean, thousands and thousands and thousands of people are getting saved here because they're seeing these men. Look, they know who these guys are. These are fishermen. Peter and James and John, they all knew each other. You know, many of them were related. These are small towns. They knew who these people were, who their parents were, where they came from. They're like, all of a sudden, they're just speaking these, I mean, something great must have happened to these men. So that's why even the Pharisees say they must have been with Jesus. Okay, look at verse 14. But this is how God operates. It's all about God's glory, folks, not ours. Look at verse 14. And beholding the man that was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it. What are you going to say? The guy's with them. The guy's following them around. He's clearly healed and everybody there who ever went to the temple knew that this guy was, you know, disabled. You know, that he's healed now. Look at verse 15. But when they commanded them to go outside of the council, they conferred among themselves, saying, What shall we do to these men? For that indeed a notable miracle has been done by them is manifest to all that dwell in Jerusalem and we cannot deny it. Turn to John chapter 12. So look what they say in verse 16. These are the leaders, okay? These are the leaders and they're trying to silence Peter and John. And they say, What shall we do to these men? For indeed, they say indeed a notable miracle. I mean, they're not denying the miracle. They're not denying the miracle. It's like it's manifest. It's known, meaning everybody sees that this miracle has happened to this man. What are we going to do? And then, you know, and then they say, And we cannot deny it. Look, they're not denying the miracle. Even the Pharisees themselves. Isn't this weird? Wouldn't this just be weird to logically read this story and not know what we know about the spiritual battle and how spiritual things work? Look at John chapter 12. Look at John chapter 12. Look, this is right here. This is the reprobate doctrine in the Bible right here. You are seeing it in action. And, you know, the reprobate doctrine itself, you know, it's just what the Bible says. You know, we talk about this doctrine. It's just what the Bible says. It's not just in Romans 1. It's put into action in many places in the Bible. And this is a perfect example right here. Here are the Pharisees. They saw the miracle. They can't deny the miracle. So they're sitting there saying, What could we do? Well, here's what you could do. You could be like one of the thousands of people that actually believed them. That's what you could do. You could believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. That would be an option. But that's not an option for them. They're sitting there and saying, What are we going to do? What are we going to do? It's definitely a miracle. We can't deny it. Everybody sees it. What do we do? Look at John chapter 12 in verse 39. So you're saying to yourself, Logically, you'd say to yourself, Why wouldn't they believe? I mean, that was the point of the miracles was to prove to the people prove to people that Jesus was God, that these men had the power of God. I mean, that was the point. That was the point. Look at John chapter 12 in verse 39. But for some reason, these leaders in Acts chapter 4, they just, they couldn't trust on Jesus. They couldn't. They saw the miracles. They saw everything that everybody else saw, but they couldn't trust on Jesus. Why? Look at John chapter 12. Look at verse 39. The Bible says, Therefore, therefore they could not believe because that which Isaiah said again, had blinded, he blinded their eyes and hardened their heart that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart and be converted and I should heal them. He's talking about a prophecy here. Jesus is saying here, the Bible is saying is that God has blinded the eyes of Pharisees that he's talking about here. He's like, he doesn't want them to believe. Look at verse number 40 again. He says, he, that's God. He says, he has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart and be converted. Look, God hardened their heart. God made it so these people, literally the Bible says they could not believe. Doesn't that match what we see in Acts chapter 4? It's just they're unable to believe. It's like everything's there. 5,000 people just got saved. 5,000 people saw it and they're just like, we believe on Jesus. Like we believe Jesus was a Messiah. We believe what you're saying. They saw the exact same thing but they couldn't believe. Why? Because they turned out, now we go back to Romans 1 and you can preach a whole sermon on that. They turned on the Lord. They turned on the Lord and God hardened their heart. God gave them over to that mind where they're just unable to believe. So these people, I'm trying to get you to understand is these people that are after Peter and John here, they're on a different level than just the average Joe that may hear this, you know, hear this preaching and just say, yeah, I'm not sure. Or, yeah, I don't know. Okay? So they literally couldn't believe these people in Acts chapter 4. Look at verse 17 of Acts chapter 4. But then it spread. But see, here's what they were doing. They couldn't believe, right? So they couldn't believe what Peter and John were saying, but that wasn't good enough. And this is really going to be the point of the sermon tonight. These people that they don't have the ability to believe. Look, they're alive. They're breathing. They're walking around on this earth. Are these people not alive? Are these people not? I mean, they put Peter and John in prison, in jail. They laid hands on them and they would do much worse if it wasn't for, you know, some things that we'll read about in a couple of verses. But the point is, is that they're alive and they're done. They're alive and they're on this earth, but God has hardened their heart. They can't believe God did it. But they turned on him first. Okay, I'm not going to preach through Romans chapter 1, but look at verse 17. But the point I'm trying to make here before I move on is that it's not good enough that they can't believe. They want to stop them from speaking. They want to stop Peter and John from telling the message that they're saying. Look at verse 18. And they called them and commanded them to what? To not speak at all, nor teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said to them, whether it be right in the sight of God to harken unto you, more than unto God, judge ye. They're saying, they're basically saying we're going to listen to God, not you. Is what they say. For we cannot but speak to things which we have seen and heard. Look at verse number 21. So this is what these people do. So this is what these people do. They couldn't believe. They saw the same miracles. They don't have the ability to believe. So when they had further threatened them, they let them go. Finding nothing how they might punish them. See, they're trying to figure out a way to hurt them. But they couldn't. Because look at verse number 21. Because of the people. For all men glorified God for that, which was done. So they wanted to hurt these men. They would have killed these men if they could have got away with it. They wanted to do much more than just put them in prison so they're threatening them, trying to get them to stop. Trying to get them to stop saying this message. But they fear the crowds. They fear the people themselves. Turn to Ephesians chapter 6. Ephesians chapter 6. So here's the thing. It was because the people that were listening that they were not able to actually do the evil that they wanted to do. See, folks? Rulers are evil. Many times. In the Bible. And today you will see evil people in high places of power. The Bible even says that we should look out for this. Look at Ephesians chapter 6. In verse number 12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood. That's us. But against principalities. Against powers.  Against rulers of the darkness of this world. Against spiritual wickedness in high places. So this is what we're seeing in Acts chapter 4. We're seeing literally seeing spiritual wickedness in high places is what we're seeing. And they're only held back by this crowd of people that were interested in what John and Peter said. Look, we're going to deal with the same things today. We will deal with the same things today. There is, I'm telling you today, in this country and other countries all around the world, there is spiritual wickedness in high places. And it's way above us. This is why, you know, this is why I don't, you know, look, I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy, okay? And I like talking about conspiracy theories and I like, you know, what if this and what if that? Did you hear maybe this and all this? And look, I think that a lot of these things are based in, you know, Ephesians 6-12 because look, there's wickedness in high places. But here's the thing, I don't really, I don't really beat myself, you know, beat my head against the wall trying to figure out exactly what happened on 9-11, for example.  Because here's the thing, we will never know. We will never know because that wickedness is so high above our heads. We just have to ask God about that when we get to heaven. You know, what was with this and what was with that? It's enough for me to know, you know, even the wars and even a lot of the COVID stuff. I mean, it's enough for me to know that there's just spiritual wickedness in high places. So I just generally don't trust a lot of stuff that comes from the top down. All right? But look, ultimately what happens on those levels, we will just never know because we will never be at that level. We'll just have to ask God about it when we get to heaven. Even like, even, and I've kind of seen this, even at higher levels in corporations, you will just never really know the depth of that darkness. I've bumped up against a couple of those people a few times and you know, it's kind of, it's a completely different world with different rules. Let me tell you that. But it's a different operating environment where it's kind of like Gresham's law. You know, a good person's really never going to get there because the things that you would have to do to get there is just something that a good person's not going to do. Or that a Christian would never or should never do. Okay, so it's the same thing in politics today. It's the same thing in politics, especially in the United States. You know, there may be a couple decent names. There may be just a couple like the extreme minority, but the point is if they want to stay in that power structure, they play ball to some degree. That's why they're kind of all similar. Okay? But the point is back to, back to the sermon the leaders, the leadership is where you're going to find the most evil. In the country, in, you know, spiritual places, it's already in place. We are there in this country. Look at Psalm chapter 125. Psalm chapter 125. You say, why? Why is there evil in high places? Look at Psalm chapter 125. Why is there evil in the leadership of, you know, religions? Why is there leadership or evil in the leadership of governments? Why is the evil there? Look at verse number 3 of Psalm 125. So we're looking at these evil leaders that are after Peter and John. Look at Psalm chapter 125 and verse number 3. For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous. You see that? You see what that says? It says the rod of the wicked, meaning this is what we're talking about. We're talking about a wicked ruler. It's talking about someone who's, who's ruling with a rod. You know, Jesus is going to rule with a rod, but he's not wicked. Okay, so the ruler, the wicked ruler will not, will not rule over righteous people. So what the Bible here is saying, what the Bible here is saying is because we aren't righteous, is why we have spiritual wickedness in high places. Okay, turn to Isaiah chapter 1. It's literally, literally having evil, spiritual wickedness rule over you is a judgment the Bible says. It is an actual judgment. Look at Isaiah 1 in verse number 23. Isaiah 1, verse number 23.  Thy princes are rebellious and companions of thieves. Man, if that's not us, I don't know what it is.  Everyone loveth gifts, it means they can be bought. It means they can be bribed, they can be had. All they care about is money. How do you get to be somebody who is worth like hundreds of millions of dollars when you're, you know, you make like 100,000 a year, 150,000 a year as a politician? How is that? Can you explain, do we all know who I'm talking about here? But look, I mean, this is right here, that's how, because they love gifts because they have power and people give them things and oh, they can't take bribes. Yeah, they find ways around, you know, getting money to these people that are in power. They follow after rewards and then they're horrible judges. They judge not the fatherless. Neither doth the cost of the widow come unto them. That means the first part of that verse is they're greedy, they take bribes, that you can just buy them. And the second part is they don't care about anybody. They don't care about people that need help.  Then they get up and they say, we care about these things and we care, they don't care about anybody. They don't care about anybody except enriching themselves. But the point is, as Isaiah chapter one is talking about this as a judgment on a nation.  Like, look, it's what we deserve. It's what we deserve as a nation because we're not righteous. It's what the Bible is saying. So, evil leaders equals judgment from God is what I'm trying to get across. Look at Matthew chapter 21. Well, I mean, there's a silver lining here in Acts chapter four because we see that we have these evil leaders and they want to just, they want to just like do harm immediately to Peter and John but there's people standing in the way. And it's people that believe them that are standing in the way. Look at Matthew chapter 21 in verse number 25. Evil leaders have always feared the people even in the Bible. Look at Matthew 21, 25. The baptism of John, whence was it? From heaven or of men? And they reasoned with themselves. This is a debate they're having here. If we shall say from heaven he will say unto us why did ye then not believe him? But if we shall say of men we fear the what? We fear the people for all John, all hold John as a prophet. So what they're saying here is they're being put on the spot to say did you believe John or not? And they don't want to give an answer because if they say that we don't believe John then the people are going to be mad because they believe John. So they fear the people even in John the Baptist time. Look at 1 Samuel chapter 15. You say what about, but yeah, they're spiritual leaders. Look, even kings in the Bible feared the people. Look at 1 Samuel chapter 15. 1 Samuel chapter 15 and verse number 24. When Saul actually lost the kingdom because he didn't obey God why did he not obey God? Look at his motive for that. Look at verse 24. Of 1 Samuel chapter 15 look at verse number 24. Or at least this is the excuse that he gives and I mean I partially believe the excuse not that there is any excuse for not obeying God but look at verse 24. It says in Saul said unto Samuel I have sinned. So this is when he didn't destroy Amalek. He didn't destroy, he didn't utterly destroy the army and the nation that he was supposed to destroy. He says I have sinned for I transgressed the commandment of the Lord and thy words because why? Because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. So he let them keep the sheep and he let them keep the best of the animals. But go to Hosea chapter 4 in verse number 6. So we see that it's historic even in the Bible itself that even wicked leaders fear people as they're fearing them in Acts chapter 4. So that's at least a silver lining that as long as there is some people there is a remnant of people that will push back against these wicked leaders that at least there's a chance to curtail their wicked plans. Look at verse number 6 of Hosea chapter 4. But ultimately this is you know where we're headed right here in Hosea chapter 4 look at verse number 6. It says my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge because thou hast rejected knowledge I will also reject thee that thou shall be no priest to me seeing that thou hast forgotten the law of thy God and I will also forget thy children. So look the people forget God the people aren't righteous and that's why they end up getting wicked leaders with a rod over them and you know there is a remnant that can hold back that evil but ultimately if we just forget God have no knowledge of God then it's just it's going to be over for those people because it just frees as the people as the people just completely forget the Lord and forget the knowledge of the Lord and forget his law God says he'll forget you. He says as you forget me I forget you. I mean it's only fair that God would forget us. So look we wouldn't have evil in the first place if we didn't forget the Lord to a degree if we were a righteous nation go back to Acts chapter 4 go back to Acts chapter 4 all that to say this they had some wicked leaders here and these wicked leaders were trying to you know we're trying to you know cause harm directly to Peter and John and they would have done so if it wasn't for the people that believed them okay look at verse 22 for the man this is the man who was healed the man was above 40 years old on whom this miracle of healing was showed and being let go they went to their own company so Peter and John go back to the church in Jerusalem or the group that is forming there they went to their own company and reported all that the chief priests and the elders said unto them and when they had heard that they lifted up their voice to God with one accord and said Lord thou art God which had made heaven and earth and sea and the sea and all that all that in them is who by the mouth of thy servant David hath said why did the heathen rage and the people imagine vain things so here these people in verse 24 they hear they hear that Peter and John went through this hard time that they were put in prison for a night and that they were just getting threatened and harassed by these religious leaders and they just cry out they just lift up their voice and then they quote something that the prophet David said look at Psalm chapter 2 Psalm chapter 2 the kings of the earth stood up and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against his Christ they're quoting Psalm chapter 2 here they're quoting a prophecy by David look at verse number 1 of Psalm chapter 2 Psalm chapter 2 verse number 1 it says why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing the kings of the earth set themselves and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against his anointed so the point I'm trying to make in the sermon this evening is to explain to you that there's just this fact out there that the heathen rage right the heathen rage and that's what the church here is experiencing for one of the first times as after Jesus has left you know look they're having some great successes here thousands and thousands and thousands of people we talked about this last week are getting saved it's success that we can't even wrap our heads around today but the heathen rage against them and you say you say why let's just look at this tonight let's look at this idea of the heathen rage because look I'm telling you tonight that the heathen rage here in this church was crying out lifting up their voices saying the heathen are raging against us I'm telling you it's exactly the same today it's exactly the same today and you will experience it especially if you are out there walking the streets knocking doors you will have the heathen rage against you in this life now here's the thing I'm quite happy like I'm for you know you all know I'm for I'm for a free environment I want to be out there and I'm for a free environment because as long as we're free to preach the gospel I'm happy to operate in the free market of ideas I'm happy yeah it doesn't really bother me that there's false gospels being believed by you know many many different houses that will knock on every single week because I'm happy to operate in a free environment because we have the best idea you say how could you say you have the best idea I just had this this debate with somebody who wanted to debate me like I'm not out there people at all out so many not at all but somebody wanted to debate me how do you know that your interpretation is right well I mean first of all it's the only it's the only gospel that we believe is the only way the Bible makes sense from front to back the gospel the true gospel but I mean how many times I've said this before how many times I mean we all know different people from different like-minded churches different soul-winning churches and think of all the names right now that you know have gone out soul-winning hundreds of times yay thousands of times knock tens of thousands of doors and think of all the names that we've lost to the Mormon there's none you'd think we'd lose somebody I mean if we're just operating and every idea is similar maybe this one's a little better this one's a little better maybe this guy you know it's just all about who presents it better you'd think we'd lose somebody to the Catholics like oh man brother George came back and he's Catholic now oh well you'd think that that would happen at least one time to somebody that we know out so many but it never happens because we have we have the truth so I'm happy to operate in a free environment because we hold the truth we hold the truth and when armed with the truth the truth always wins it's a promise God gives us it's God's word that has power and when we're preaching it correctly it's powerful every single time so look but the heathen that's not what they want and when I talk about the heathen I'm not talking about you know six pack or whatever it goes to the Catholic Church I'm talking about these types of people I'm talking I'm talking about the leader of the Catholic Church I'm talking about the devout you know Pentecostal pastor that we run into and I've had these experiences with all of these people that I mean I'm talking about the Mormon that I ran into just a week ago look these people will rage against the fact that you're standing at their door with a Bible period you don't have to say a word you will knock on some people's door homosexuals perfect example you will knock on their they will be angry and upset that you're just standing there for a long time seeing that chase you out of their out of their yard I mean threatening it's the whole thing it's the whole thing so why so why I mean most people I mean I think you would agree most people those 90% right that 90% I mean they're indifferent they're indifferent that you know they're just busy they just you know they just don't have time they're indifferent that you they're not upset that you're there they're not happy that you're there they're just indifferent however you know especially out soul winning you will find the false prophets you will find you know look we don't argue at all out soul winning we are not you know we are not in the business of going to someone's private property and arguing with them we do not do that here I do not do that here you know we you know we don't have the culture we go to someone's door and we nicely offer the truth that's all we do and you know but the heathen rage and most people indifferent some people will accept it the heathen rage the heathen rage it even the offer of the truth even the idea that there is somebody walking around with the truth the heathen will rage they will chase people down the streets I've seen them chase people down the streets with a hammer I have seen this the heathen rage they will get in their truck and they will follow you they will walk behind you and harass you and threaten you down the street it's happened it's happened if it hasn't happened you know to you this is one of the reasons by the way that we always send a group of guys with a group of ladies because you will find the heathen raging out there and it's you know it think about it they just can't stand the sight of it they can't stand it so it's not that you know you know out in the world think about this out in the world it's what do we hear today it's all about tolerance no it's not that's not what they want is tolerance they want to silence the Bible they want to silence it's not about tolerance it's about threatenings it's about harassings because you know these people they want to silence the Bible you know whether it be the LGBT community or whatever they're not just like hey you know we just want to do our idea and you can have your idea no they want to silence the other side they want to threaten the other side and it's the same thing with the false prophets it's they aren't just unbelievers they aren't just agnostic they're literally against God the heathen rage this is what this verse in this passage in Acts chapter 4 the church in Jerusalem is just figuring this out they're like this is what David was talking about the heathen is raging against us I mean you think about it what are they trying to do what are they trying to do today I just read an article about this today all these church shooting or all these shootings are Christian white nationalists what in the world? what are you talking about? look we're not for violence this is spiritual warfare but guess what we have the best weapon we have the truth of the Bible it's spiritual warfare that's all it is where's the violence coming from? where's the violence coming from? where's the people you know talk to some of the pastors that you know and talk to them about what the threats they've received against their families about the things people have said to them about things that people have said to their children but I don't know is bombing a church is that violent? we didn't do that we were bombing anybody? no but you know it's exactly the opposite of the truth but the Bible tells us this is what's going to happen because guess what the heathen rage the heathen rage they can't stand it they can't stand the word of God they can't stand they can't stand God is the problem that's why the heathen rage they're haters of God the Bible says they literally hate God and if you represent him they hate you oh give me a break it's all a lie it's a complete lie look folks you can't hate something you don't believe in isn't that funny?


We had three questions to answer, but before going to the questions, we started with a brainstorming about what partnerships are about. So we said, first, we need different partners for different objectives. So, then we did it for different models of partnership. But then we said, in our 9BDC, we have immediate partners who are really core members of the 9BDC, who potentially are easier to influence. But we have also other key players, what we call boundary partners, who are doing something similar to ours, but we don't have any direct control and influence. So they are more difficult to influence. So we said, we should start from the easier side, but we style by generating evidence and by communicating better. We should broaden the area of influence of partnership to the bigger and wider partnership. But we said there are also other potential partners that we don't know much about and those probably are doing something similar like ours. They don't know about us, we don't know about them. So with time, probably through other partners, we made it to reach those partners to know about our own systems and share lessons. And then coming back to the questions and lessons learned from the partnership, we said most cases resources are by the issue. But there are partners who are more interested in engagement than the money because they could have probably more money than ours. But they know what they want. It's probably how they work and then probably they would be in a position to even finance and generate additional resources for that to happen. And we said also communication is a very important strategy so we have to really communicate with partners as much as possible and we need different communication channels and strategies for different partners. We said for partnership to work we should identify common goals and objectives. So we should overlap certain stages and be some interest for the partnership work. And partnership should be dynamic and we should probably learn from the lessons learned and remember as a nation we should move to the next partner. Probably dropping the trust in partner if there is a laser coming up from that partner. We said strength in partnership is for interest of all and we said partnership can be strengthened by working with other partners. So if a relationship is partner with multiple partners whom we are partnering with then the partnership can get much more stronger. On the identification of partners I think that's also part of the lessons learned but we said the need for common objectives and goals mapping of partners really knowing who are there who are connected to what are the major areas of influence but also saying we should meet our partnership and this partnership of course should be called for different objectives. So we don't need all the partners at the same time. We may need some partners at the beginning, we may need other partners at the end but also we could really depending on the priorities of the agenda in the program we could also change partners. Monitoring partnership advice case is another issue which is probably not easy to do. On the communication we said partnership should of course include the inclusive so we need to include of course communities as many partners. So partnership stands from community to national business scale needs different strategies. So we have to know the subject of communication what we're communicating for the different partners. We have to have different media of communication we have to have a target of communication for achieving our goals and for partnership function as I just said there could be probably some influential individuals who could make or break the partnership so aligning with those individuals is equally important for partnership to work. And we said for this protein of partnership the most important tool that we are trying to use is the platforms. So platforms and price levels could bring more partners on board that could list things in the end of this agenda.


Hey good evening and welcome to Montpelier Civic Forum 2022 and we're preparing for town meeting day on the 1st and we're having candidates we're talking about the issues we're talking about the capital budget we're talking about the school budgets we're talking about parks cemeteries and even the safety authority and tonight we have a school board candidate Will Alexander has come to visit welcome thank you Richard thanks for having me Will why are you running for the school board why that is that is a thankless task it is I've got I've got sort of two tracks of reasons there's the gut instinct reasons and the practical ones like the most basic answers that I've got kids in the district I've got one child in the elementary school one in the middle school the health and well-being of the schools and the school system are a point of immediate importance but it's also it's also very much part of my career I mean I I teach here well we're on campus right now we're out at VCFA and I teach at the Vermont College program for writing in writing for children and young adults I was until recently I just finished up a a term as faculty chair of that program and it's an amazing program I mean it's the oldest and best of its kind what sense it the first graduate program in specifically focused on and devoted to writing for young audiences so you would find classes and maybe a concentration in that in other graduate programs other writing programs but a whole program a whole degree program devoted just to that is this was the first when did you write your first book when it came out I wrote it over several years in a messy rambling process but it came out in 2012 so so I've been a novelist for officially for ten years what was the book about it's a it's a fancy novel it's for middle grade audiences so you know 8 to 12 it says 8 to 12 on the cover and it's a fancy book about a goblin theater troupe so sort of you know fancy Muppet show kind of book I was in theater way back when and then I I wanted to pour everything I knew and loved about theater into a book it did okay I mean it this is still weird to say out loud but it it won the National Book Award that year so so I got what is the National Book Award and how does it differ from the cult the Caldecott or the newberry or the three awards what are the awards and the people okay the big awards the big awards in children's literature or the Caldecott in the newberry and they are I mean the two most thing and they are judged by librarians they're they're one of two of the many big magnificent awards that ALA hands out every year and I being a of the American Library Association the the National Book Award is distinct from the from a lot of the other big awards in in American letters in that the judges almost all of the judges are other writers most of the children's literature awards are judged by librarians because I mean and they very much know what they're talking about the National Book Awards in every category are judged primarily though not entirely by other writers other writers in the children's field or just other writers other other writers in that category so in in my category yes they were other children's book writers Susan Cooper was one of them Gary Schmidt I've judged it since now in 2012 mm-hmm you look back it's decade now yeah how does that book read to you now well I haven't read it recently my kids seem to like it which is nice it's I'm proud of it I'm proud of I'm proud of what it has apparently accomplished and it reads I mean I may okay the author who here we go here's my answer the author who shaped my brain more than anyone else when I was that age when I was 11 years old and we're we're so often writing for we're writing the books we needed then we're writing we're writing for what we needed at that age and the author who shaped my brain more than anyone else when I was 11 was Ursula K. Le Guin and you're aiming high yeah I mean always and she is and we lost her in in 2018 and and she was a friend and mentor and something she she kept returning to throughout her magnificent career was the idea that fantasy is it's important for many reasons foundationally because it bites nature offers an alternative to the way things are it it proves that things do not have to be the way they are and simply by playing out that imaginative exercise that spending time with dragons it requires that we imagine a different world and those mental muscles are necessary to create a different world to to never get stuck in the assumption that the way things are however they are is the way that they have to be and so that's one of the that is one of the great strengths of fantasy in any in any medium in any form or subgenre it is necessary and we're hungry for it we're always hungry for it we're especially hungry for it when the world is in various ways terrible because it helps us imagine alternatives and then helps us create those alternatives how many books followed that book so far I've got six out in the world are they all for middle school yes they are all middle grade they all say 8 to 12 on the cover are they all fantasy based or some are science fiction none of them are realism I am incapable of realism I've tried ghosts show up every time it's have you experienced districts that don't like the notion of science fiction occasionally or parents who feel that science fiction is inappropriate from time to time we have those conversations I mean not too often because usually the people who ask me to come speak are the ones who like what I'm doing but but I'll have I'll have healthy debate with with a different stance on the value of different modes of storytelling for kids as a chair of the department that's helping people to author those books you become somewhat of an authority I suppose and the book wars the book wars um which in a way brings us back to school boards okay would you it's how do you counsel people to avoid the book wars or do you counsel people how do I counsel on those on those topics I do I mean I've counseled many students who are who are embarking on controversial subject matter or what would be a controversial subject matter well at the moment I mean any the books currently being banned um thankfully knock on wood not nearby but um but in in the national news a part of the national debate in which school boards and school libraries come up there there have been a number of book bannings lately notably Art Spiegelman's mouse was banned in Tennessee would you explain what mouse is about I know what it's about but there might be people who don't mouse is a graphic novel I believe the first well graphic memoir technically it is it is nonfiction I believe it was the first to win the Pulitzer the first in its medium the first book of its kind to win the Pulitzer prize it is a memoir of the Holocaust and of the author's father's experience as a survivor of the Holocaust in Germany it's also it is factual in content but fantastical in in its art form in that characters are portrayed as animals are drawn as animals and principally what animals mice well the Nazis are cats and Jews are portrayed as mice and mouse in German MA US is the title what are people objecting to oh hmm they're on its surface the charge is supposedly obscenity there obscenity in a different way than the death of six million people there's a little bit of nudity and apparently that's a problem that's I mean I have my doubts about whether that's actually the reason there's broadly speaking when you look at the books the totality of the books the dozens and dozens of books there's a document put together by local politicians in Texas of a spreadsheet of many many many books being challenged in schools there are very clear common threads what would those be in your opinion books books that give a history of oppression of any kind of persecution of any kind American history questions about I mean about the Civil War in particular the history of people of color primarily in the United States books by or about black people constantly banned constantly pulled constantly taken off the shelves and forcibly removed from curriculums books by or about queer people LGBTQ people constantly banned pulled from shelves either loudly or quietly removed from where students can find them and this is recently become increasingly less subtle I mean it was never subtle but it's it's getting less and less subtle in its blatant targeting of particular voices particular demographics if a parent were to come to our library our librarian or to the school board to come to Libby to our superintendent and say I don't want my child accessing this book that's in the library now we're not talking about any child we're only talking about my child as a school board member how would you address that what council would you give Libby what council would I give Libby well this is okay complicated question because and I have a lot of faith in this there's it wouldn't be up to me in any individual solo way like there are there is a whole community and a whole professional institution in place of the school librarians and the schools and mutual support and and if we're not talking about the general population at the middle school okay we're talking about my child don't want my child to have access to that if that if that person were to appear at the school board what would you say that sounds like an issue between them and their child okay and that if as with any other if you would prefer your child to not watch a particular TV show that is a family issue and that is an issue of parenting and that's an issue of boundaries to be discussed with your child and enforced as best you can but there's there's a very important principle at work generally your rights end where mine begin could you elaborate on that please once your rights end where mine begin your once your sense of your rights begins to intrude on other people and begins to have consequence for the people begin to restrict other people I mean if I choose to be a vegetarian for ethical reasons I don't have any say on what your lunch is there are a number of ethical spheres where my rights end where yours start and the moment you try and take books away from anybody else the moment you start pulling books off of school libraries or removing them from classrooms or forcing teachers to take them out of the curriculum that's that is a horrific line that is many of our worst moments included that impulse as a symptom could you imagine the school board supplementing material not taking the books away and let's go to history for instance we're using history books that are widely used across the United States and are purchased I suppose based on California Texas those things when the book when parents were if parents were to come to the school board and say that the depiction of Texas history is inaccurate you know it just that particular depiction is inaccurate would you see the school board asking that supplementary materials be provided to our teachers that would make this are we going to deconstruct history in order to make it more representative to our community is that where we're going we are always doing that there's no avoiding that I mean just generally we're we are always re-examining history and noticing what has been left out but the books are static not always there are new additions of the books I mean this is this isn't like at the moment this is a screaming match in many parts of the country thankfully I have not heard screaming here so so a lot of this is very very hypothetical um but this is uh this is always a conversation what what we focus on when we tell our history and what we leave out um and what we do deliberately and what we do unconsciously and what have we been doing unconsciously when we bring that to our conscious attention um we're always doing that that is that is the business of teaching history talking about history um making sense of where we came from so we're never not doing that and we should be doing that we should always be doing that and that's and we're always doing that as a community as as a town as a city as a as a state as a nation as a world um what what should we focus on when we consider our identity over time um is a huge question and we're never not doing that um and the school board has a role in in that as it plays out in schools um but it's part of a it's part of a much bigger conversation well school board actually has a committee on that called the district-wide visioning committee indeed are you following the district-wide visioning committee at all I am broadly from a distance um I do know some of the people working on it um I think it's important work what would you do if if you were put on that what what would you bring to the table um the first thing I would do is listen because this is um this is a group this is a committee this is um a group of people working together as a team so I don't like the role I'm running for isn't a leadership role um it is well in a sense it is in a sense it is um in in terms of the whole community yes but it's uh um you know I'm not running for school board president um I'm I'm joining this group of people that cares very passionately about this so the first and most important duty the first thing I would do would be to listen to everyone else on the committee everybody else on the board and and I know this is increasingly a priority for the school board in a really positive way just listening to the community I mean they've been um doing really excellent work in finding new ways to hear the community and to hear the community concerns um so that's a long way of saying the first thing I would do is listen um then what I would bring to that table is um knowledge of the book world knowledge of children's publishing knowledge of fiction and nonfiction I mean my particular specialty is fiction but as I mean as faculty chair the former faculty chair of um of this program I've had to stay abreast of children's publishing and children's writing in every genre um which includes history books which includes textbooks where did you live before Mount Pylir I lived well for a while in Minneapolis which is um another another locus of children's writing there are a lot of great um writers and children's book writers as well as theater as well as theater it's fantastic theater town it's a really good restaurant town and music town um it's a good town Minneapolis is is is a great town um and I was there we went out there um for my wife's master's program and we stayed for several years um and but I have bounced all over the place I mean I've lived I was born in Miami I've lived every which place um but your wife has Vermont roots she does her father's her father's Vermont her um though now lives is her mother's from Montreal and her parents now live in Montreal um what made you choose Mount Pylir what was your first impression of Mount Pylir oh I love this town um it I chose Mount Pylir because Vermont College is here um and this is this is where I teach this is where this is where this is where my career is led me um how old were your children when you moved to Mount Pylir young very young um two and five yes two and five um so they've both been through the school district starting in kindergarten um they both had mrs mellow as a kindergarten teacher what was your impression of union um when you came here and at two and five I loved it every every time what was the strength of union to you I well initially just the reputation of it I mean we knew we were moving to the area generally but um because of the college because being you know being close to the college was the goal um but were we were we gonna be in this district was an open question and one of the first things as moving could you find a place yeah exactly could we find a place um and that was the search that was a long search um and did we want to be in the district um and the the question there was the schools was like we were coming here with young kids what are the schools like and I heard nothing but good things about what were you hearing about the schools um from the outside from the outside um and from friends who are already in town and and their kids had gone through um god what were the specifics I remember the glow I remember the just the all the schools are great like that was that was just a general this the schools are great people are there they're well run the teachers are amazing um there's a lot of community support for the schools um and the community involvement is very high um and the teachers are outstanding now you're in it you you've gone through with one child through union you're in you're in msms right now um what's the strength of union now that you've been a parent and you've sat and gone to the parents conferences you've gone through the entire experience what is the strength of union elementary from that perspective how do I pick just one um well right now in the middle of constant crisis right right and upheaval um I'd say they like the strength is how I mean how do I even distill this quality um nimble adaptable flexible able to the the adaptability the strength of being able to roll with astonishingly volatile circumstances and maintain focus on the students and what they need and making sure that they get what they need um what's the curricular strength of union from your parents perspective the curricular strength yeah is it math is it humanities is it science um I've been oppressed across the board um I I have I mean my my own expertise being what it is I um I'm particularly focused on reading and a love of reading a love of discovery a love of narrative regardless of where that sense of narrative is applied I mean for me at least everything is story and and what impresses me most is which I've seen which I've seen in every teacher is a really strong sense of narrative that communicating the story of why something is important um communicating the story in the context and and and the kids role the students role in their own stories and the stories that they're building and the stories that they're participating in um there's a very strong narrative sensibility um to the teachers that I've always appreciated for kids who are behind or learning disabled or whatever do you the sense that that union is really out there for them in the best way that it could be every year when you get your test results the school board comes back and says we really need to do a better job with our low-income kids or and our kids who are behind and the like with COVID the kids who are behind probably got really behind yes what are your thoughts on how to get those kids who are really behind back up to merely not only merely being you know a little behind but getting them up towards that that median I think it is always about I mean your first question was are we doing the best that we can um we probably are you know um no I well we probably are but also we never are we're never there's always something better there's always I think we're doing it I think the schools are amazing um there's always we can always learn and change and grow we can always improve we can always like realize that we've that something has just been a horrible oversight that there are things we should be addressing that we haven't been there's always that possibility um so um like so from that perspective we're never doing the absolute best that we can um there's there's always going to be room for improvement and and finding that out and supporting it um is always a role of of any of anyone working in any school administration role um these helping kids helping kids who have been particularly affected by by the pandemic or the structure of the schools who whose needs have not been met who educational needs have not been met um the role is just is understanding that context I mean not leaping to too quick a conclusion aha you're struggling you need this I mean maybe not like if you if you run in with a quick diagnosis um and a quick prescription then that might that might anything hasty like that might be an inadequate understanding of the needs of that that student that context where they're at how um what they need to move forward in their education so just more effort um research listening talking to parents talking to the community reading the studies reading and all of a lot of this is new the actual consequences of the pandemic on students developmentally is something we're going to be studying for decades but what do we what do we understand of that so far and how can we address it is going to be a constant question how does the school district best communicate not with you but with me with the community of people who do not have kids in school anymore whose kids went through our public schools who aren't sitting on the school board for the most part how do you best communicate with those people who aren't showing up at the meetings who are watching this who are watching this um well doing this um and uh and and outreach is important in improving communication between the board and the the schools um and the district is really important and a big priority um and as i mentioned earlier the board is already doing this i mean they're already there are listening sessions there are there is predominantly parents which are predominantly parents um but there is outreach there is outreach and communication um i mean this right here um like talk um getting in front of the camera getting on the radio getting um doing interviews um doing news stories getting the newspaper um being upfront and transparent about what we're doing and why we think it's important um is always part of the job it's always part of the task we gained 14 students last year uh we're unions supposed to lose students Montpelier high school will actually gain some but it's going to peak in 25 that's what the budget projects okay yes what do we do i mean how do we stay uh short of um savings pastor picking up people picking up housing perhaps at the elks club picking up housing how do we keep a district afloat like this with half teaching positions and the like that's the big question um there's no one answer to it it is and there are weirder factors at play now than than there have ever been the the pandemic um the funding the emergency funding that only comes with the pandemic i mean there are the budgets and the logistical considerations um are more in flux and with more factors than is usual in a given academic year um so how there i don't have one answer to that question and i don't believe that there is any one answer to that question um i think the best way to address that um those shifting numbers shifting dynamics and a whole domino cascade of logistical challenges that come with it um there are also opportunities always um with any of those shifting dynamics and the role of any new member of the school board um is the junior member yeah the junior member um will be to listen and engage with everybody else who's been you know neck deep in it so far um and just find out what's possible and that i mean that kind of work while while i don't have an answer to that specific question because i'm not in it yet um that kind of work is the work that i have been doing for years i mean as working here at the college um the pandemic had a very big effect on um the structure of our program what we were able to do what we had been doing how and adaptation um shifting to the shifting the structure of our program and and how to ensure that we were still able to get our students what they needed um given wildly different circumstances um that's what i've spent most of the past that's what everyone in education wherever they are has spent the past couple years doing um and that's what i've been doing here at the college um and so that work that constant logistical reassessment what what do we have what are the resources what are the limitations what are the challenges and what has changed in the past 24 hours that changes all of those things um how do we adjust how do we adapt um that's that's what i've been doing that's what the schools here have been doing um that's what regardless of who is on the school board um whether i am or not i know that that's what the board will continue to do um the board has kind of dodged the issue we're seeking efficiencies the board is always seeking efficiencies in this district they've dodged the issue of of Roxbury the school in Roxbury there was an agreement when we did the merger that we would revisit whether that micro school would stay a micro school tell me more about dodging the issue i want to know what you mean by that before i well that's never really come to the fore as to what should happen to that there's been discussion i've heard discussion of a magnet school up there perhaps that would try and attract families that want um a different kind of elementary school education interesting yeah perhaps like a Montessori style that we could pick up more kids but that school has very very few students in it would you be in favor of opening that discussion realizing that rocks that's part of the identity of Roxbury the town is in that school okay broadly i am always in favor of conversation and discussion always um i think first and foremost that conversation has to be with Roxbury but they're part of a larger union now they are now part of a larger union um i do know that the policy committee um in the school board has been examining each policy and finding a number of outdated policies um and bringing them in line with um the structure of the district that now includes Roxbury um and and making sure that that Roxbury as part of the district is more part of the the fabric and the policies and the what and what governs the district um that that that integration is more consciously um and thoughtfully made um um so i know that so i don't believe that they've dodged the issue of Roxbury i think the issue of Roxbury being part of the district is part of the constant daily work of the board right now um that said is is Roxbury going to become something else something interesting some i mean of course they're interesting something something like a Montessori school something like a magnet school is that are those possibilities something that Roxbury is interested in um that we are able to for the better for the entire district it comes back to again the entire district versus that identity issue at that school and Roxbury is not the only town that has that issue of no they're not school that defines identity they're not but you know that that's what i was asking it's a partnership and like as with any partnership it is it is not for one partner to dictate what the other should do um but the partnership is a whole thing it is a complete district um and and so what what we are able to build together that best serves the students is something i am not as only a potential board member um and as a someone who lives in Montpelier and not Roxbury i am reluctant to make any pronouncements about what Roxbury should or should not do do you feel that the uh pulling of the school resource officer was the correct decision by the board yes and i was on the committee that examined that issue do you believe that in case of a school shooter in the elementary school without the kids knowing anyone in the police department not having that central figure there that that would be as safe as having a central figure let's get into it um the school resource officer um um i was on i was brought into the subcommittee of the school board the school safety and police relations committee i served on that committee and worked closely with the school board in 2020 and 2021 um that's probably my primary qualification for serving on the school board proper is that i spent that time um working on this committee of the school board and researching precisely this issue and what we found was and this is this is the connection everybody makes directly having having police and school shootings and well that's the ultimate tragedy that's that is that is and that is the that is the most visceral fear that is the most like anything anything that makes schools safer when confronted with the possibility of school shootings like all parents want that um it's on studying the issue um having an s ro does not protect a school from school shootings and we have that from every study and we have that from what does the test schools from school separate question but we're asking about okay s ro's and we have that from our own police department um we have that from our former police chief uh we have that from chief pete who's our current police chief who who very clearly said that protection from school shootings um is not the reason to have an s ro it is it is not what was the reason for having an s ro there were a lot of reasons to creating the position um was in many ways a knee jerk response to columbine it had was directly connected to school shootings um what we have found since then is that i mean many many tragedies and shootings at schools have occurred in schools that have a police officer present on camp when in florida that did there's too many to count um so it does not have a preventative effect um we have found that and this was really important this is okay this is very very important um that what we found in studying the issue was that having a police officer on campus um and also we had we had a police officer who was bouncing between i was just about to say they were on one campus all day long yeah they were not they were not so there wasn't that constant presence um also we found that there wasn't necessarily consistency in terms of um if if a child who is a student in the district was through whatever unfortunate circumstance um encountered law enforcement the law enforcement officer they encountered was not necessarily the s ro even in cases where the issue at hand happened on a particular campus there wasn't necessarily this consistency this one face this one familiar um face of law enforcement um so that i mean that was often presented as an argument in favor of the position it wasn't really the reality that our community had encountered so far um but setting that aside this is this is the issue this is the single most important reason um the evidence was unequivocal that the presence of an s ro on a school campus causes inadvertent harm regardless i'll define that regardless of the conduct of the officer um one of the reasons the debate was so heated and charged was on the news every night we were seeing police brutality i mean we were seeing horrible police brutality many of it at schools we were seeing students um bullied and by officers in schools all over the country um i mean this the summer of 2020 we saw my old town my neighborhood on fire um we saw george floyd die so that was what came as a reaction to column by left as a reaction no george floyd no that was the super heated moment and and everyone was saying rightly those things aren't happening here we're not responding to like there are no like no one has youtube footage of horrible police brutality in a montelior school so why is this an issue here was the question and what studies have shown consistently is that the mere presence of a badge and a gun on campus even when the conduct of the officer in question is exemplary has an inadvertent intimidating effect so we saw that brian were to agree not to have the gun if the gun were left in the principal's office would that have been all right um we actually asked that question of and our at our former i know brian said that he wouldn't accept that no he said a police officer is armed in the united states a police officer is armed so if you want a police officer on campus that they will be armed um and they were wearing a vest actually and they're i mean they are in their capacity as police officer so the question was do we want to need a police officer on campus and it's in every step vermont legal aid has studied this for years particularly the disability law project at vermont legal aid and they put out a really important study in 2015 about the consequences of this the consequences of having a police officer on campus and the consequences for particular demographics for kids with disabilities um for students of color for lgbtq students um the consequences are devastating and there is a constant the mere presence of a badge and a gun on campus um given the history of law enforcement in this country with particular demographics um knowing that history there is it is intimidating it is and okay just as a metaphor but let's look at it this way um i mean i have i have back problems i had spinal surgery a while ago so a common question if you've got a serious back injury is you know surgery or physical therapy um and many of the conversations around the presence of law enforcement on campus excuse me blessings start with many of the we're very um are very very similar in uh that reminded me a great deal of the um like do you go the surgical route for a problem that you're having do you like a more drastic and decisive intervention um or do you do physical therapy do you strengthen other things um and having having a police officer patrolling the schools which when the program was originally created was um it's in the language of the charter that created the SRO position in the city of Montpelier that they would be watching for potential delinquency so it was it grew into something more community service minded but its original intent was just um policing kids all the time in their place of learning looking for potential infractions um that has a very bad effect on someone's ability to learn let me let me go a slightly different direction but i'm gonna finish my medical metaphor um so having a it was like having a surgeon at the physical therapy studio like you're going to do sit-ups and to strengthen your core muscles and to avoid surgery and there's a man with a scalpel and a surgical mask watching you now surgeons help people they spend their entire careers learning how to help people so to say that that not is not conducive to the environment of physical therapy is not to say anything bad about surgeons and doctors um but it is a drastic intervention that shouldn't simply be hovering um we found much the same thing with the presence of a police officer on schools it has a chilling effect on the ability of students certain vulnerable demographics of students in particular their ability to learn how do those students learn to relate to the police that is a much bigger question we've been asking is that a responsibility of the schools to sit for elementary school kids for all elementary school kids is it a responsibility of the schools to get these kids to meet with the police in a non-threatening way so that when the police are needed these kids won't be afraid to approach the police short answer if the police have a public relations problem in the united states that is not the school's responsibility to solve nor is the school able to solve it it is this responsibility of the schools is to the students if there is something that the schools are doing that harms the students it is the responsibility of the school to stop that thing the police have a coffee with the police on the street where they'll go in front of the store and um mike philbrick will get out there and talk to people on the street how do you extend that to children that that that reach out of the police and as a non-threatening presence how should that how would you counsel parents to get your kids to get a positive view of the police department as protectors and friends i have no answer to that question and i don't believe i don't believe i think we should absolutely as a society and as a community and as a town and as a city be having these conversations about the role of the police and in my experience our police have been in incredibly valuable members of those conversations and very willing to have those conversations chief pete has been outstanding in his engagement with the community and defining the role and his role and the role of his department in this community um this however this is i mean this question is hundreds of years old it is not the responsibility of the school board or of our schools to solve it on behalf of the police or on behalf of the city for that matter the responsibility of the school board is the education of the students and their well-being and their ability to take full advantage of that education um so if like these additional responsibilities and levels of engagement and conversations are important um we should not engage in them engage we should not do anything that compromises the student education we have community-based learning in the high school where the kids are if you're going to graduate from Montpelier high school odds are that you've been out in the community involved in in Matt McClain's program for community-based education where we put our students as active members of the community yes tremendously important again i come back and ask that question you know the policing and the fire department are part of the core of the community and when and that particular program i am guessing encounters other public servants and other modes of community service in its engagement with the community and that engagement is important and those dialogues are important and understanding respective responsibilities are important we have an equity committee on this social equity committee on the board yes are you familiar with that i am yes how do you see yourself vis-a-vis that committee if you were sitting on that committee what would you be what would be your priority be on that committee i have done similar work before i've done advocacy work here at the college um do we have a social equity problem in our schools right now their short answer yes always we we have equity we have equity problems um as a nation we have um we have there are a number of power dynamics that are always at play and should always be examined um what would be a social equity issue in our schools when i our son just pick one well when our son went to Montpelier high school and yeah the gay straight coalition or club or whatever it was which was alive and thriving 10 or 12 years ago what what are social equity issues i maybe i'm just old-fashioned maybe i'm stuck 10 or 12 years ago in in our school district but we were addressing those a decade ago well it's never this kind of work is never done i mean it's never done what what are what's an issue right now that's pressing oh well there's a social equity concern okay um oh god what isn't i mean there's there's always questions of economic equity i mean there's always again i transcend the school always it transcends the school but it affects the school and it affects student access to education like if um so anything anything if you're doing you know if you're doing a field trip if you're doing a book drive if you're you know scholastic is has their their little catalog and kids are buying books um any any of the things that that happen at a school where um there will be families who think nothing of giving their kids five dollars to have access to this thing and there are families for whom that maybe a much more significant ask or significant barrier where um where a random five dollars is not lying around to um to buy usually one of the things that isn't actually books uh when there's when there's a book drive um i mean that is um that is an equity issue that's an economic equity issue that's and in general um and this is not like there's no there's no no villainy to this it's just oversight in general people who are making decisions who are getting involved from the community um by and large tend to be economically well off because there's spare time to volunteer for things absolutely and we have tremendous parent volunteer we do our schools we do it's tremendous and it's great and it's it's the involvement and the community commitment to it is fantastic there is usually i mean if you're working three jobs you might have less time to volunteer for a thing um so it is then incumbent upon whoever is making those decisions and those structural decisions about what we bring to the school how students are able to participate in it um it might not occur to whoever is making those decisions that five dollars is going to be a big deal okay i can see so they have to think in terms of equity you have to challenge yourself to think in terms of the barriers that you yourself don't necessarily experience and that includes um it that includes any kind of power dynamic that includes um dynamics of race and gender that includes um dynamics of many genders um that includes and so i mean the the gsa continues to be alive and thriving what is gsa it was formerly the gay straight alliance it's now the one that my son yeah yeah it's now the the gender and sexuality exactly alliance is um so it's no longer binary so it's no longer gay straight alliance is the gender and sexuality spectrum um and constellation of of uh of student experiences and student needs and this you have to be aware of these you have to be aware of these from specifically an equity lens because any one of us isn't necessarily going to notice where um a particular part of the community or engagement with the schools or access to education um has been compromised or denied either deliberately due to the biases of the past or present or just accidentally or as an oversight um those it's always there to be addressed and corrected right now we have 14 kids at the votex center okay is that an equity issue for blue collar parents that so few kids are accessing direct lines to blue collar careers that might pay well and that lead to votex colleges potentially we should check it's just curious guess um it is and and it's and and my answer is serious i don't um my answer is that i don't know enough to answer the question but i think it's an important question and i think it's a question that should always be there as we look at the structure and dynamics of the schools um what what are the equity issues that we haven't even noticed yet um and that's why the social equity committee is doing that work people to come to that committee and address their concerns exactly so the board is listening exactly they may i mean they're not the nature of that committee isn't to have those answers um already the like the the work is to find what are the questions we haven't even asked yet and that feeds into into the vision committee yes how we would like to see our district envision itself yes where do we where do we go from here well i know where we go to here we go to the end of the show thank you so much will for appearing with me and for going over a broad range of topics you never dreamed you would discuss and uh thank you for watching the show and i would hope that everyone who watches this will get out and vote oh yes i'm not talking about town meeting day i'm talking about before return the ballot but if you haven't returned the ballot march first is town meeting day watch the other shows and listen to the candidates and listen to the liby talk about the school budget and listen to mayor talk about the city budget and get out and vote and thank you very much good evening


Hello, everyone. I am here with Paige Christman who is running to represent Oregon's 42nd district for Their house mine actually unfortunately, she's not running in my district But she is here to talk about her campaign because she is a Democratic socialist and her campaign is absolutely phenomenal So Paige, thank you so much for coming on the program Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, we're very excited about our race We're running a hundred percent people-powered campaign with no court corporate money accepted. We're challenging a centrist corporate Cratt who's funded by the fossil fuel industry the landlord industry Amazon And we're gonna be in a really close race here to bring the progressive people-powered values that I know Oregonian share Down to Salem with us. Yeah, I love that and it's so exciting to see people in my home state Step up and like run for Congress because Oregon is a very very deep blue state So there's no reason why we have like this milk toast neoliberal Democratic establishment type of people representing us like we need true progressives Democratic socialists such as yourself and Like I'm I'm just ready for change and to see everyone across the country in different states, you know step up It honestly makes me feel really happy So tell us a little bit about yourself and your campaign and if you could talk about the dynamic Curly in this race. Is this like a two-way race? Are you the only progressive that's currently running? Give us a little bit of details on the situation Yeah, sure So I currently serve as the electoral and legislative chair for the Portland Democratic Socialists of America Which basically means I run our lobbying department, but we don't have any money. So we're not very good lobbyist but we try to leverage our people power to influence politics down in Salem and That that role that I served in this last session Had me down in Salem our state Capitol working at the legislature almost every day And I became progressively more and more frustrated with our Democrat supermajority because we have a Democrat supermajority in both chambers of our Legislature and a Democrat governor that constantly time and time again came up with compromises and half measures and sellouts to a Republican Minority instead of fighting for the interests of their working-class constituents And that's really why I'm running now I also am a board member for Portland tenants united, which is our largest tenants union here in the city of Portland I'm a disabled veteran I was the first woman to serve as an indirect fire infantryman in the u.s. Army Which is a combat job that was previously open only to men Until I was forced out of the military by the trump administration's trans military ban And now I'm the first trans woman to run for the state legislature in Oregon's history And that's really important because there is over 7,300 state legislators in the country And there's only four trans state legislators So we are very voiceless in this country and our political system and the consequences of that are very significant for trans people For example, just here in Oregon Which is a very blue state with the Democrat supermajority Trans and gay panic defense is still legal and here in Oregon trans women are housed in men's jails in prisons so there's a lot of A lot of damage that are that are marginalization and our and our democracy has caused to the trans community So it's really important that we continue to fight for the representation that trans Oregonians deserve Now we are challenging an incumbent democrat. His name is rob nos. He is um Been in the state legislature since 2014 and he is the house majority whip so he's the fourth ranking democrat in the house and What really pushed me to run was the last session. He voted to cut public employee pensions Now this is a democrat supermajority voting to cut the pensions of teachers and nurses and firefighters some of the most valuable civil servants in our state I find that unacceptable That's what republicans typically do in other states, but who needs republicans when you have democrats like this So we're gonna make sure he doesn't get away with it And we're gonna make sure we replace him with someone who fights for the progressive values that I know our community shares And this race really is important. Like it's difficult for me to try to convince people in other states to care about You know internal organ politics, but this is really important Like what I want to point out is the impact that someone like um, you know Lee carter has in virginia being you know a democratic socialist elected and with you taking out a leader In the organ democratic party and being one of just a handful of trans women elected I mean this would be huge and you would be able to showcase Why it's so important that we have democratic socialists in congress because your policy is in comparison with average democrats I mean the difference is night and day Um, so I wanted to ask you about something that I heard from aoc as a late representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who don't know she said something that really struck a chord with me because it's so true And she said it just beautifully basically She says that we don't have a left party the democratic party is not a left party They are a center center right party. So I want you to kind of um respond to that and also Appeal to people in organ because even though we're very blue like I personally and I I'm sure it's the same for you Know a lot of people who are just very loyal to the democratic party, but explain to them why we need real representation for the left Um, especially in states like organ where I mean theoretically we should have So many different progressive policies passed with a super majority We're not getting that so explain why it's so important that we make this distinction between democrats and the progressive left and socialists Absolutely, and I agree with aoc the democratic party is not a progressive left party It is a center or center right party and here in oregon That's especially the case because we are so dominated by corporate money So oregon is one of the only five states that allows unlimited corporate campaign contributions And as a result we have the most corporate spending in our elections per capita of any state in the country And that's going to democrats. Um, there is no sitting state legislator that doesn't take corporate money in oregon And as a result we see corporate policies getting shoved through the state legislature with ease Meanwhile teachers and nurses and firefighters have to go down and fight for their pensions for months just to lose Now we saw just as an example, um, oregon business and industries is the largest lobbying group in the state They were openly bragging Last session that they were able to get a list of seven concessions into a student funding package That they negotiated openly with the house The house speaker and the senate president. Um, and this is being flaunted openly so Here in oregon the consequence of not having a true left flank party and or not having a true left flank of the democrat party Is that our party is dominated by corporations? Um, and I think that's unacceptable I think that the only way to to change that is to start electing people that don't take corporate money To start electing people the right way by knocking every door by building a movement and advocating for the policies That working class oregonians need to improve the material lives that we live And being unapologetically bold and progressive in doing so and that's exactly what we're gonna do Yeah, and that's great And i'm so glad that people like you as well as like amanda sebe and albert lee all from oregon You know running for congress or the house Um, it's so important because I feel like with the democratic party since they feel so safe in oregon because it is a Safe blue state they kind of just can get away with not really representing their constituents. They can basically do Uh center right types of policies on not really represent constituents and just feel safe because nobody's going to challenge them But now finally we're all drawing a line in the sand and we're saying This is not good enough and it's time that you actually do the bidding of people Not your corporate donors and it's so frustrating So I wanted to ask you so um in terms of what could be accomplished. Let's say you beat um rob I think that this would be huge like I think this would make national headlines because anytime a socialist takes out You know a member of leadership. It's just it's phenomenal and it scares the establishment But i'm curious. What do you think you would be able to accomplish or what would you push for within that first year in office? I think we can accomplish quite a lot um because it would be such a big Big victory for for the left. It would have regional significance and it would be a national news story And then we can leverage the people power that um that win creates that moment in in time where there's so much energy behind that To push our agenda moving forward in the legislature Once once we send that message that nobody is safe that um, no democrat is safe No matter how much money you have because our opponent has unlimited corporate money He's raised $130,000 already for a state house race. Um, which is like u.s. House numbers in a lot of other states insane Um, that will send a message that nobody's safe and that um, if you don't fight for the principles that your constituents hold dear Then we're going to come for you and we're going to take your seat and we're going to replace you with someone who will Um, and that's the people power we're going to leverage once we're elected We're going to turn out people and in working with the coalition of of grass trees organizations that have endorsed us Uh, we're going to turn out people to testify at hearings and uh to protest at the capital and to go to town halls And other legislators districts and we're going to organize the constituents of other legislators to put pressure on them to to stop this uh this ever um This ever-increasing fall and capitulation to the right because here in oregon the republican party should be insignificant But they keep winning concessions from our democrats And that's unacceptable from a party that uh has a super minority that that um is Irrelevant in our state politics Yeah, you know the way that it should be in oregon is that we should have like centrist republicans more so than centrist democrats Because if you can't really win Um, then they should be the ones making concessions, but yet time and again And this isn't just true for oregon. It's true across the country and state legislatures Um, we see democrats making concessions and meeting republicans halfway, which is just it's mind boggling to me Um, this should not be the case and I think that people across the country are so frustrated to where They are willing to you know Shun the establishment and vote for someone who isn't necessarily an incumbent who they don't know So i'm curious because you're working with a lot of progressive organizations. Um, what is based on like your your personal experience What are some of the issues that voters are raising because i'm personally not familiar with this area? I'm not sure is this like around void center area. Um It's just south of void center. Okay. Yeah, it's um curms and inner northeast portland Okay, and then most of inner southeast portland. Oh, I see so i mean i'm sure that the same issues like because I grew up around In st. John's and the same issues i'm sure Plague that community that area of portland like gentrification income inequality homelessness and whatnot So what are some of the concerns that constituents are telling you? Right, so housing like you mentioned is is really right at the top of the list We have a huge housing crisis here in oregon and houselessness is increasing um, and uh, it's been addressed by our centrist democrats or attempted to be addressed By throwing more money, um into Developments and throwing more money into brand new housing and trying to Open up the zoning to allow um more dense housing, but that's been uh, that's led to uh on Surge in high-rise luxury apartments and housing that may be dense but still economically out of reach for most oregonians Um, so for example, I just moved because my rent is was too high So I just moved three days ago and I moved into an apartment In inter northeast portland That is a brand new construction luxury apartment building And i'm the first tenant in my unit and it's a 300 square foot luxury studio apartment that cost $1,100 a month Now I don't want to live in a 300 square foot luxury studio apartment But that is the cheapest housing that was available on the market in my district at the time that I moved I had to stay in district, of course So that's what i'm really angry about is that there's no real affordable housing in my district anymore And this can be traced to the policies of the city and of the county and of the state That have treated this housing crisis Not as a crisis of human rights of housing being a human right that's not being met But as an opportunity for developers and as an opportunity for the development and landlord and realtor lobby That all the state legislators take money from including our opponent. Um, so we aim to address the housing crisis by investing in dense green publicly owned and democratically controlled public housing And guaranteeing housing as a human right because there are 4,000 houses people here in moltenoma county and there are 16,000 vacant rental units So this is not a supply issue. This is an inequality issue Yeah, I totally agree. You know, it's devastating to drive through and you see so much homelessness I mean, this has certainly been an issue for us in portland those of us who grew up here But I mean, it's increased exponentially and it's it's just devastating It's sad and to see it not get addressed year after year when we have a democratic supermajority It's just it's unacceptable at this point So I wanted to shift gears a little bit. You are running as a democratic socialist proudly So you got the endorsement of the dsa in portland So I don't think this is going to necessarily be an issue where we live in this in this state But if you had to describe in your own terms to someone in portland Who's a little bit apprehensive about that socialist label if they've been a lifelong democrat or even a republican What would be the pitch that you make because this is something that i'm currently trying to wrestle with myself Because I also identify as a democratic socialist. I'm a card-carrying member to the national dsa So I mean like how do we win those people over who are so afraid about that socialist label in your view All right, I think it just comes from having conversations about what we believe in that We believe in that every head should have a roof that every child should have a teacher that every family should have a doctor And that every human being should be treated with dignity and respect and have value outside of their economic value Under the capitalist mode of production and what they can produce And it's through that messaging. I think instead of through Uh Types of theory discussions about Marxism that we're going to reach the type of people who have this visceral reaction to labels like democratic socialism But also we shouldn't be apologetic because What we're advocating for is is bold transformative change and some people aren't gonna Like that it's going to make some people uncomfortable because of their privilege and because of Their vested interest in the status quo And I think it's important to recognize that we don't always have to change their minds. Sometimes we just have to Defeat the the people who are Uncomfortable with what we're offering because what we're offering is human dignity and a world that treats human beings Uh and places human beings above profit and places the planet above corporate profit Um and if if that makes someone uncomfortable, then it's time for us to move on without them I think Yeah, yeah, and the reason why this question is so like important to me is because just like lately Someone in my family had like this visceral reaction to me Um because they saw an episode of the podcast and then asked me michael. Are you a socialist? I'm like Yeah And the reaction was just like shock and this person is not necessarily very politically savvy doesn't really follow politics Um, I won't say who it is in case they're watching But like, you know, it just that may be thinking like how do we win these people over? Like do I just focus on you know the policies and not that label and really I think it is important that we educate people because Like I saw a tagline about socialism from Benjamin Dixon shout out to him where it's just sharing and caring And it's funny because we learned that in like kindergarten But yet we grew up in this ruthless capitalist system where people are sleeping on the streets, you know So, um, yeah, I think that anyone in this district if they know about you and they get out to vote I think you win easily because the case that you were making is so simple That I don't know how you can go on with the status quo and organ with the way that it's going I don't know how anyone is satisfied with the democrats that we have in the organ Legislature, so I want you to make your case to voters And also if you can kind of speak to people who don't live in organ and think that you know Organ internal politics aren't necessarily important to them You know, can you talk about just why people in this district should vote for you and why nationally this really is important Yeah, so this is a hugely critical race because of what's at stake. This is um A time right now here in 2020 when Oregon is building a new pipeline in a new fracked gas export terminal We're expanding freeways outside of portland here And we're moving forward with a neoliberal Motor production that has brought us to the brink of a climate Crisis and on the brink of a climate apocalypse And that's where we're at right now and we only have a few years to fix this And like I mentioned, there's over 7,000 state legislators in the us and Most of them are funded by the fossil fuel industry and are funded by corporations that have a vested interest That is directly contradictory to working class people And it's up to us to fight back And we have to do that not just by running for congress and having Everyone who wants to be the next AOC running impossible races against incumbents that they can't defeat But also from the ground up running for school board running for city council running for your state legislature Because every single arena that we're not fighting in our landlords are and our bosses are and the fossil fuel industry is So we need to be fighting on all fronts and right here in oregon. This is an incredibly Winnable race. We're winning 65 of the voters that we talked to in our canvassing operation But our opponent has near unlimited money. So we've raised a little over $25,000 our opponents raised $130,000 So we're going to get outspent by a large large margin So it would be greatly appreciated if any of your listeners could go to page 2020.com and throw us a couple bucks Because it'll go a long way We're powered just by regular everyday working class people because that's who my only constituent is is the working class people of this state Yeah, and that's fantastic. We lost your image. It's just frozen, but we heard Everything you had to say. So I will have all the information up on the screen page. Thank you so much for coming on the program It's been a pleasure Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, and for what it's worth You have my endorsement even though unfortunately i'm not living in the area where I can vote for you But i'm gonna be rooting for you and i'm sure that my viewers are too Thanks so much