et on a 3 stickers dans le panneau. Radiation des boules mobiles et des couches mobiles. Cela a été consacré dans le public domaine depuis longtemps. Nous avons tous l'appréhension que la radiation des boules, la radiation des couches, les boules mobiles, les boules mobiles, les boules mobiles, les boules mobiles, les boules mobiles, les boules mobiles, les boules mobiles. Nous avons besoin de tout ça. Nous allons pouvoir payer tout ce qu'il faut. et nous avons collaboré sur le département de la communication telecom, et nous avons dit que nous savons que nous parlons d'une rédiction entre les deux experts sur les différents aspects de la radiation des towers mobile et des aspects de l'homopole. Nous avons également avec les experts un docteur de la psychologie among the experts, one doctor of neurosurgery from all India Institute of Medical Science who will be joining us through video conferencing. I am very happy to actually share with you all that organizing a meet to a high bid mode where this physical audience is connected to the online audience to Zoom meet and we will be doing it very frequently. And this is actually become possible because of telecom. So thank you our esteemed speakers. Now I will invite Mr Aske Buxa, DDC Compliance. He will be speaking on an outlay of telecommunications services, their impact on economy and future economy. Please listen to Dr TK Buxa. Thank you. I am especially thankful to V.C. of the University, Mr Kanapadaaz, Registrar, Dr Aruv Jyoti Chaudhary, Finance officer, Dr Deepak Kalita, Dean Academy, Dr Deepak Jyoti Mohanta and Head of School of Mass Communication, Jaial Dukumar Sharmaji who has played an active role in organizing this. One second, sir. So we are here basically to tell you about, there are a lot of apprehensions because there are mobile towers, there is a mobile radiation so it is going to affect us this way, that way and we are getting affected very badly. This actually hinders the growth of telecom, everybody. And especially because people are not aware about it. Is it really harmful? Is it really going to affect us? Is it going to cause a very serious damage to us? So we need to educate people. We need to let them know what is the actual scenario My director, Mr Mub, will be dealing with it in great detail. But before that, let me tell you how important is telecom in our lives and why it is so. I am here just now, Mr Sharma told that we are happy to inform you all that we are doing it in a hybrid mode for one audience present before me. Why it is possible? How is it possible? How is it possible? I didn't know all that I was asked about this. He said he was looking for a test. It is possible because the telecom is there and they need to call the cancer services and they need to give many more new kinds of tests because more of it is against cancer and I don't even see doing all the tests now. So we need to do all this. Base on telecom and the blood data is going to help you all. You don't want to change your lives. You don't want to show many new talents. First of all, this relates to that. How many of you already asked one question? How many of you not having a white phone now? And how many of you, if you have a white phone, you will not use during this presentation. It is ingrained. It has gone into our lives. It has become our habit. Before I started, I got a call. I forgot to switch off its ring on our system. So this is the importance of the system. Nothing new I am telling you. But just to impress upon the topic. This is my history. Right? Page of freedom. Just give you a brief history how it starts. Recently, hostel and telecom were together in the year 1985. It is separated from the postal department. I don't know how many of you know about it. Initially, the postal department and the telecom department they were together. And if you go to Panbaya, you will see both the buildings nearby. And almost in all the cities, we will find these two. We are two officers very close to each other. Only because it was separated in the year 1985. Another landmark. Initially, everything was with the government. Including production of the equipment. It was with IDI. If you can recall some Beatles Soul or something. Anybody seen the name Beatles Soul? So it was the present operator, very famous operator, Bhakti Airtel Limited. They started in Australia. They started their services. They started their work. Way back in 1985, by photos it was smart telephones. And this is another landmark. Here, I tell you, most of you must be knowing the 1990s. When there was crisis of foreign currency and people in the government and in the power, they thought that we cannot continue with this situation. Now we have to liberalise. We have to open up. At the same time, this year was taken, and this sector will also be opened up. And that way, the private operators started entering. 1992, I think one of the operators I don't remember the name. I think Airtel only. Who was it for? You remember them? Reliance. 1992, they were given a license to operate. And then the things continued. 1994, telecom policy. It is coming up in four years. The telecom policy is now coming every four years. We have different policies based upon the requirements, based upon the environment. We will have the policies of the government being announced. Every four years. Almost every four years it is coming. Establishment of flight. Until 1997, 1997, only the ministry was there. Department of telecom. Now to regulate the industry. And to assist the devotee in policy formation, this institution has come. Client. And it is, we can hear about clients, quite often in the news network or in open house sessions. They are conducting open house sessions all throughout the country. See the involvement of the client in the telecom sector. And another more thing. Even the government, while BSNL was called, now the government wanted to come out of the services totally out of the service and they want to leave it to the market forces. So the BSNL also led to work. The ministry part is doing various work. It depends on the unit related only with the spectrum option. A lot of the spectrum and for the policy formation. Along with the client. So this is how it works. Now let us see this partnership with a very different angle. When it was liberalized, I mean, R-C to concentrate on only these two figures. Number of TSP's and ARPU. TSP's means how many telecom service providers. And the ARPU is average revenue per user or month. And look at the amount. To begin with, in the year 2004, there were 5 operators. And what was the ARPU? 4366. And what is the situation today? Today also you have got 5 operators and the ARPU is 97 rupees. And what is the situation today? Today also you have got 5 operators and the ARPU is 97 rupees. And the ARPU is 97 rupees. And the ARPU is 97 rupees. One of the operators because I have taken it from price it is still so 5 operators. One of the operator is Reliance Telecom that is very small. But basically we have got only 4 players. See how. So what does it indicate? 436 to 97 with the same number of players. Why it has come? Look at the next part. I just have converted that figure into a graph. What is the situation in 2004? ARPU is 436 rupees. Number of players just 5. It is within the right hand side. So government has now left it to the marketing forces. The market has started acting. What they say? There is a lot of potential. There is a lot of market. There is a lot of money in this sector. The number of operators goes up. It goes to more than 15 in the year 2019. And they start sharing the booty. As the number of operators are going up the revenue is coming down. The ARPU portion is coming down and who is going to benefit from it? Only the user or the subscriber is going to benefit from it. How it has come? It has come only because the government has taken a decision that we should come out of it. It has left the sector to take its own force. It has left the sector to the market forces. Now one exception is there in 2016-17 where both number of TSPs are going down and at the same time revenue per user is also going down. This is their landmark here. This is a very important here which has ultimately helped the subscribers only in the entry of Geo who has started giving free services. As a result many operators left the place now one second we are back to the same situation 5 operators and revenue is less than I am able to fill. How the question comes? What will happen in this situation? Those who are from economy they will say there are only 4 operators and everybody so much to start of ratio you need a lot of money you need a big money in this sector if you want to start. There was a scope many people poured in money but now this is not the situation it is a oligopolistic situation where there are entries there are barriers to the entry so many people will not come many operators will not come what? If government does not interfere now at this stage also if the eye does not interfere if government does not interfere what will happen? Either one or two operators more will die and the market will go into the hands of one or two operators and suppose they come to give that suppose they pollute then what will happen? you can understand the private player he knows only money and what will be our situation what will be that all these things with all the government intervention we are landing into this situation and if I leave it to now as it is again we are going to land into a very difficult situation that is why we are here the government is here this is the next question why government should be involved one situation I have already told you if be told to watch things are going to be out of hand some more points I will put in support of our involvement into this sector but not as a operator not as a service provider it was initially a part of DOT but no longer it is as for us it is as good as any other private operators all the conditions imposed on private operators are applicable on BSNL as well why government should be involved the next question comes I appreciate now just a little technical question what kind of good is telecom can anybody say I heard that there are people from economy's background also it is a public good or it is a private good it is not a private good looks like a private good it does not look like a public good also so I think I too I will elaborate it a little better more then it will be better for you private good and public good private good is one who will pay who will pay public good means once it has been provided it becomes shareable people may pay for it people may not pay for it suppose this partails and this information is available to anybody who is coming into this room you cannot stop them from taking these debitates and because there is capacity you will allow them to come you will not feel like charging them as much but as long as capacity exists you will continue to use Any such La bonne publique, l'involvement du gouvernement devient essentiel pour sa régulation. Le télécom n'est pas une bonne publique, c'est pas une bonne publique privée, c'est une publique semi-populiste. C'est pourquoi nous sommes ici et nous avons de l'involver. La structure du marché, je l'ai déjà dit dans le dernier programme. Il va mettre en place une situation oligopoliste pour les forces du marché. Nos abonnés vont s'occuper de tout ce qu'il y a. Donc pour cela, nous sommes ici comme réguliers. JDP, c'est ce que j'ai vu. Comment cela contribue à l'économie ? So many new types of businesses, so many new types of services and are already there in the market and many more are likely to come using the technology, using the availability of services. We are, this government is earning a lot of money from this sector to give you in the form of spectrum charge. You must have heard of so many times about the spectrum auction and the kind of money operators are paying to get care of it. License fee, license fee we are charging. Once we are awarding a license, many operators we are charging. As a portion of the availability of license fees. And of course based on the balancing of the companies, corporate tax will go to them. Just give you one figure. We are having from the dry side the data regarding the revenue. Spectrum charges and license we collected in the last quarter that was quarter ending September 20. The amount was 5,151 crores rupees, one quarter. So if you multiply it by four, it becomes around 20,000 crores money that is going as a fee, license fee to the government. So we cannot just leave it as it is. Technologie, we have seen developments checking now. This university, we have to show the telecom services are here. Many more services we have to offer with the creation of services, new kinds of services and people and its merger with IT. The software platform. Everything is running on the backbone of telecom that we are using and we are getting so many services. So the future developments are also development dependent on these services. National security. What happens to border areas? What type services should be available in the border areas and what should not be available? And to what extent? This we have to see, we have to monitor. Secondly, if we have to have telecom services, we need to have a related impression. There is a lot of hidden things that we don't see. You see only tower. Most of the people see, if this telecom what you see you see a tower is there and some antennas are there that only see. What you have seen beyond that? Anybody can tell how those towers are being connected from the main station, from the main electronic office. We have to bury optical fiber people to connect those locations. From that we call it exchange that electronic office that is connected. Exchange, from there we are connected. The fiber has to be laid, the towers have to be erected and we have to have the buildings, the construction of buildings, its maintenance. All times, round the clock. So for these things, we need support. We need support of what? Or the sector needs support of what? The sector needs support of people and as well as of them. Because once somebody is going to erect a tower he has to take permission from so many agencies. Any question? If you see the last point, the development of telecom structure, this is a core objective. This is our core objective. For this session, for this workshop that we want that we should be able to help our telecom operators to grow. Once they grow, the services will penetrate length and breadth of the state to the remote corner and once more services are there more people are involved Again, the common people will be common people will be there in the form of new services and expectatively reduce time. So that is very important. So we are here to let you know to make you aware that how important this telecom in our life how, in what corner, in what aspects it is going to affect us, the government and the operators who are giving the services. So we understand its importance and miscellaneous conceptions are to be removed that it grows throughout the state. If you see the setup of our department how it is. At the center, we have the ministry which is the department of telecommunication and the second is try to achieve the policy making body which gives suggestions to DOT and then DOT finally makes the policy. I think it comes in shape only after the solution of try and some monitoring is also being done by the department but that is only at the center. But how these policies which are framed by the department will be implemented by the department. Every state, we have 22 offices throughout the country. Sorry. 22 offices throughout the country. And what if you see the country general, it is something like this when it started there were 34 offices now it has because of some rearrangement 20 such offices and it is headed by a very senior officer of central government and the level of additional security it is level of additional security to the government of India and every field of it has 5 joint security we will be ready for that DDG, AR, SCC they are basically joint security level officers of government of India who are giving I am also one of these who has come as DDG SCC and what we are actually doing initially what are shown to that why it is required now what we are actually doing so once anybody has to start telling some services in the country he has to go to the department and they have to take a license for that now there are so many conditions in that license you have to do this or you will also do this whether they are doing this whether they are not doing this so we are inspecting those conditions we are going to their premises we are inspecting them and then based on that we are making reports and if something is out we are taking action from them also we are charging them with huge parameters now nowadays it is very common to cheat people with using a mobile phone or something so how we are going to deal with it you will, once some fraud has happened with you you will go to police police has to catch that particular line how we are going to catch it so they will come to us in turn then we will take two telecom operators this is your number from this number this kind of fraud has taken now you will investigate they have to cooperate it is a part of our license condition so the common people are being helped in this way and I have also told you suppose I want to erect a tower and he is not able to erect a tower when he erect a tower he is not able to do that maybe they will not commission from the state government or from the civil body or they will not commission from the public maybe he is a owner and this is going to cause some problem to us and what we will do I will not let you do it so they are coming this again I will tell you this is our job only to educate you people who are going to erect it online they will want to make them aware what is the actual status this was the fourth point I have already told you guide general public I missed the question about the relation of BDSM for which he will my director will give you a detailed presentation again I will give you just one example suppose there is a flood in this area there is a flood in this area network of one operator has gone down so unfortunately if anyone of you is taking the services of hypothetical operator you are out of touch and the kind of need if the services should be available to some other operator we are renting that we have seen that this arrangement is done so so many new things so many good things that are coming off because of policies of the government and the next for which we are here we have seen most of the complaints coming from the people from the public is that this tower is being erected this is going to all so many details to me so this should not happen but is it really good for you or what you are thinking is right or wrong about the actual thing the actual effect of radiation which my director will deal what we are doing if at all there is any kill effect or bad effect of radiation effect there first thing in exceptional cases only it can happen and it will not happen it will not happen don't think of exceptional cases one still we are forcing operators to radiate below or up to that prescribed level so how we are going to do that so every year 10% of the total radiation are tested actually in the media that the radiation level is below the prescribed level it is not exceeding it is not exceeding so this is one of our course job of the office in jr i am in parallel to my budget so now i will end here and i will move on to deal more about this radiation level the misunderstanding i will leave it to you thank you thank you Mr. Gupta for laying down before us the economics of the critical sector we now know the role of the government and the DOT is playing in regulating the sector and providing us the service and the role of the service that actually plays in the economy of the country actually Mr. Gupta has laid down the foundation of our today's basic question the question we had that whether this electromagnetic radiations are actually harmful to us or not to tell us whether this electromagnetic force is going to harm us or not whether the cost benefit of that particular setup we have another expert with us I now invite Mr. T-MAG who is director for compliance he will be talking about EMF exposure compliance measures and the current status I invite Mr. T-MAG to take the podium okay good afternoon i will be very quick actually we are running down schedule the topic is about EMF compliance the mechanism what we follow by DOT units to enforce the radiation limits before that just to build up the context I would like to tell about the technological revolution in cellular telephony from the first generation to second fifth generation now you see we know that in 80's it started in the second generation analog mobile phone services it started in 80's and every 10 years we find that there is a change of technology now 2G came in 90's and 3G came in 2000 and 4G now we are at we know what is 4G 4G is basically mobile broadband so now we are waiting for 5G and 5G will bring range of services now the prominent services will be autonomous cars and lot of so many IOTs all these things are there now you know while in this changing scenario how much telecom infrastructure has to be let's say in 2G if we look at the future radio space we will find like this now mobile towers are radiating and in the scenario of 5G what will happen there will be intelligent antennas it will follow the cars it will follow the people who are talking and then radiation it will it will look at the building also now right now here in the this building itself we have found that there is a coverage issues but then those intelligent antennas will be looking up below so in such scenario you will find that in future there will be towers towers on the street corners on the poles on the walls everywhere and just to tell about comparison what is 4G and 5G now this is diagram taken from the ITU now here if you look at you will find like that we will just encircle this diagram we go first like peak data rate peak data rate right now inside that one is IMT advanced ITU do not call like 2G, 3G, 4G these are actually commercial terms this international telecom union the impacts of your policy making in the world telecom they always say that it is IMT advanced means 4G IMT 2020 is for 5G and IMT 2000 is 3G so if we go from this peak data rate we find that right now 4G promises to deliver 1 GB per second and 1 GBps and in 5G scenario it is 20 GB but then these are all laboratory conditions it is not a actual user experience data rate it is promise 100 MBPS write out is 10 MBPS and spectrum efficiency there will be 3 times what is a improvement right now it is 10 bit per second per harsh in 5G 30 what is a 30,000 bits per second per harsh so mobility also there will be improvement right now it is 350 km per hour in 5G it will be it will cater 500 km per hour latency there will be like right now 10 ms in 4G and in 5G scenario 1 ms now you see if you close your eyes it takes 250 ms now in 5G scenario technological improvement will be such that it is faster than what is a wink of eyes so that way it will make the like possible world is envisioning like autonomous cars and connection density right now in power square km it is 1 lakh device can be connected in 5G in the scenario of 5G it will be 10 lakh device so lot of what is a work is going on in the domain of IoT devices network energy efficiency because intelligent antenna it will follow the car person so thereby always the antenna will not be in the on mode so that way lot of energy can be saved and traffic capacity also there will be 10 times what is a so having said that now we understand that in future lot of towers are required and therefore the misconception or whatever like conception associated with the radiation it should go away otherwise what happen right now lot of resistance is there from the public as well as even the administration also this impression of harmful effect of radiation is there so now let us understand what is emf radiation so emf is basically nothing but it is a wave of electric and magnetic energy moving together and what is a in the 90 degree what is a angle and now look at this way you can visualize like that how they move now you find that the field actually goes to pick then it comes down to zero to the reference level so you can imagine like that the energy picks then becomes zero then picks and zero so now with the what is a wavelength is large so it cannot be like continuous like what is a energy and that is what I mean like the radio frequency which are used for mobile telephony exactly behaves it is not like what is a continuous like radiation continuous penetration not like that so now you see emf radiation I mean it is always around us every appliances like household or wiring power cables, radio, tv laptop even wifi and remote controls ovens every device radiates this electromagnetic wave it is not only that cell phones so now if we look at this thing the spectrum and the frequency spectrum then what we find like that this it will go as far as the frequency then we find first this green portion is actually ionizing radiation sorry non ionizing radiation the red one is ionizing radiation what is the difference in that now ionizing these are actually what's a very small wavelength like gamma rays x rays ultraviolet rays which can split the electron wherever it falls so that is why they are called like ionizing radiation whereas the frequency used by these devices even the AM, FM, radio and the tv mobile all this to some extent visual, whatever light light also gives electromagnetic radiation so these are non ionizing means that they cannot take out electrons from any matter now you see why I mean it's important like that why in our body like that this DNA consists of what chemical bonds so the x rays gamma rays they can disturb this chemical bonds and structures so those are ionizing radiation and these are harmful but not the frequency range used by cellular telephones now part of electromagnetic spectrum extending from 3 kHz to 300 GHz is referred radio frequency television and radio transmitters mobile telephones, radars baby monitors and radio control toys use this RF radio frequency fields are non ionizing that I have already told energy to liberate electrons they are not very powerful like x rays now I mean this is what I mean about the non ionizing and ionizing ionizing radiation has sufficient energy to alter chemical bonds and atomic structures and there may be effects on health by this ionizing radiation now this thing I will rush through ok that this I will rush through because this will be explained by Dr Tendon we will be coming next what this everything like a WHO recommended international council of ICNIRP they have, whatever they have recommended we are following that stand that tradition, that norms this I will skip and what we have adopted that I will tell in 2008 WHO and those ICNIRP guidelines were introduced in India in 2012 there was interministerial committee which recommended even 10 times stricter norms so whatever international norms have been faced India is following stricter, 10 times stricter norms like in 900 megahertz 1800 megahertz and this frequency range is 4.5 watt per square meter power density ICNIRP has prescribed but we are following 0.45 watt per square meter and in 1800 we are following 0.9 watt per square meter all this BTS base station base transistors stations are required to radiate within that norms only so now what what is being done is like the norms have been fixed now our telecom engineering center has prescribed the testing methodology and we are conducting this test conforming this conformance to the norms and we are assuring that these norms are followed we certify we conduct certification of emissions from the sites then we conduct audits and then we conduct we address public complaints so now what the mechanism which has been followed the power which a BTS base station can transmit that power has been limited it has been prescribed in the network they are allowed to transmit 43 units that is 21 and telecom operators they have to submit self certificate of conformance to these norms before starting any space station ok I will just finish within 5 minutes so now this audit of sites are done by 10% on random basis by our team that has been already told and no commercial launch before proper certification and penalty on non-compliance sites if any BTS transmits more than the radiation norms operator will be penalized with 10 lakh power that base station even if it is not complied that BTS can be shut down also so this we have already told and we measure I mean government measurement methods that 1 watt per square meter it should be less than that and now I mean what happen if there are more towers is it harmful no it is not the value has been prescribed within that the operators are supposed to transmit the power now I think this I have already told and this see you sir we can hear you, you can speak sir ok so should I start speaking doctor Tendon you can speak study presentation ok so can you receive a presentation now ok ok ok so very good afternoon to all of you and I must thank the department of communications for inviting me for this talk and I must also thank previous speakers who have been very eloquent and have already educated you about the effects of EMF and what EMF is so I will not touch these topics which my previous speakers have spoken and I will be very brief because I am in the middle of a surgery right so so what you can see here is the picture of the Vatican and in 2013 you can see on the left side the picture was clicked and at that point of time probably the percolation of mobiles wasn't there but you look here on the right side in 2000 G to 5G and now we are looking at having the new technology can you hear me yes we can hear ok somehow you are disconnected so this is how the development how the mobile technology has been and now mobiles have become indispensable for everyone so I don't have any disclosures I don't have any conflict of interest within the file companies or even the ministry of telecom I am a doctor who works in all in the city of medical sciences and I am a neurosurgeon and time and again I have been called by the department of telecommunications in the initial part I used to think that why I have been called there because there was once a committee in 2014 and I was asked by to represent the health aspects in that committee of telecommunications and I used to ask why me and then I started like I had shown you earlier that these are the areas these are the things which you use on daily basis and any one of you who is working as a usual person you will be dealing with all these kind of electromagnetic frequencies on your daily basis till this point but some of you will be dealing with the electromagnetic frequency or ionizing radiations which are high frequency and fortunately or unfortunately for us as part of our work we have to deal with this part of ionizing radiation on daily basis because we use the arms, o-arms and these kind of a machine which emits radioactive rays for treating the brain tumors and this is used for imaging during surgery and all of us on daily basis we are exposed to this 15 minutes back I was using x-rays in my operation room to look at a person so the question is whether I am getting harmed by these x-rays whether I am getting harmed by these ionizing radiations the answer is yes if you are over exposed you will be harmed but what about non ionizing radiation I told you that non ionizing radiation cannot emit an electron from any particular substance and therefore this part of the frequency is very less dangerous there have been multiple reports in literature which relate to the power lines with relate to the use of cell phone towers which show that at times I mean there are incidences where people have reported that yes there is a chance of tumor which is related with blood but is it true the answer is even after a lot of research it has not been found to be confusing we use these kind of machines in our operation rooms on daily basis this is 1.5 tesla MRI this is our 3 big monitor this is light which is there and this is the cotry machine that we are using so there is an electromagnetic field we are basically taking a bath in electromagnetic field while we are operating and yet we feel safe here because we personally believe that this kind of non ionizing radiation will not cause any problem to human beings now what do you see in papers on every day these at best in scientific parlance can only be called as case reports or opinion papers and letters if you look at from the scientific perspective all these case reports opinion papers and letters that you read in newspaper that you see in tv and here and there everywhere these according to the scientific parlance their evidence value is very very low they are at the bottom of the pyramid so if you read a report that ok a person who was taking lot of sugar has developed diabetes that doesn't mean that sugar is likely to cause diabetes that has to be proved scientifically and how do you prove scientifically things you prove them by doing a randomized controlled trial what are randomized controlled trial randomized controlled trial is suppose you people are sitting in the room I divide this room in two half and I randomly select people to be in each half now to one group I give sugar and to the other group I do not give any sugar and then after some period of time I check their blood sugar levels and see which person develops diabetes and then only can say yes diabetes is correlated with consuming sugar ok similarly for electromagnetic field radiation when people say that it is going to cause cancer or any other kind of a problem a randomized controlled trial is only the trial which can provide you with level 1 evidence having said this can you have a randomized controlled trial in today's time the answer is absolute no because the whole of the population in the country except few tribal areas is exposed to electromagnetic field radiation in one way or the other all of you who are sitting in this hall must be using a mobile phone so for us to have a randomized controlled trial is simply not possible so the next level of evidence is cohort studies which we have to believe and we have to see ok and then also we will be discussing what is the role of media and what is the role of government and for looking at what you have Google where you go and search for anything that is available in the net if you want to see whether or not you can google it but for medical literature you have to go on PubMed you have to go on M-Base and search with keywords like EMF, oncogenesis, health effects and sleep problems which are commonly reported in literature in the newspaper these problems have been reported and then you look at human studies you look at animal studies for the sake of this I mean presentation I am only going to present you some of the human studies and which are recent and to start with look at the Indian we looked at the Indian studies which are there so there are few studies which are published from the northeast in the country which show that ok if a person is exposed to radio frequency waves there can be few problems which are related to the antioxidants or DNA damage in these people but look at the number of people in whom they have studied it is around just 40 so is 40 a good number the answer is absolute no because around every mobile tower there are lakhs of people which are residing so what is science, science is something which can be recapitulated the experiment can be done again and again it is repeated again and again so has this study been recapitulated anywhere I am not so sure at the same time even if it gets recapitulated what is the significance of this damage until and unless you see some clinical significance if for example a person develop goes on to develop cancer then yes it will be considered as significant so are there reports which show that it happens the answer is absolute no what causes then let us settle the debate what causes more emf exposure whether it is the mobile base tower or is it your mobile phone the answer is very quickly I would like to give the answer is your phone the phone will emit more exposure than the mobile base station if the signal in your phone is weaker your phone will emit more radiation towards you so that is why a good signal is important if you are not receiving good amount of signal in your phone your phone is likely to emit more radiation and you are likely to be exposed more to it that is why we should have more towers which provide you the radiation from them so that the signal in your phone is good now let us look at the results if if you Google sleep mobile you will see so many results and this slide was prepared maybe 2 3 years back if you google this you will see so many results with relations with mobile and if you do it for sleep and emf you will again see thousands of results on the google Ma question pour vous, les gars, est-ce que vous pouvez dire si une taupe mobile, si c'est à la frontière de vous, est-ce que vous pouvez dire si cette taupe est en train de fonctionner ou non ? Si c'est en train de fonctionner, est-ce que vous pouvez détecter si cette taupe est en train de fonctionner ou non ? La réponse est non. Il n'y a pas de récepteur dans le corps humain qui peut détecter l'électromagnétique de la radiation. Vous ne pouvez pas détecter. Vous êtes toujours dans cette chambre, il y a une télévision à la frontière de vous. Vous pouvez détecter l'électromagnétique de la radiation ? Non. Vous pouvez percevoir l'air, vous pouvez percevoir la lumière, vous pouvez percevoir des autres formes de fréquences, mais l'électromagnétique de la radiation, vous ne pouvez pas percevoir. Si vous êtes en train de dormir comme ça, avec la chambre à la frontière de vous, votre appareil est en train de fonctionner, votre chambre est en train de fonctionner, votre chambre est en train de créer l'air, vous n'aurez jamais un bon nombre de sleep. La réponse est, votre appareil et votre façon de travailler est en train d'améliorer votre sleep. Ne l'abandonnez pas sur les towers mobile, qui sont là, parce que comme humains, vous ne pouvez pas détecter si la chambre mobile a été élevé ou non. Et cela a été prouvé par le étudiant, qui vous montre. Les humains ne peuvent pas détecter. Donc, c'est important d'y détecter. Ne l'utilisez pas votre appareil pendant que vous êtes en train de dormir. Ne l'utilisez pas votre appareil pendant que vous êtes en train de dormir et vous serez bien. Ne vous inquiétez pas sur la chambre mobile qui déteste votre sleep. Ce n'est pas possible. Comme ça, l'électromagnétique, la hypersensitivité et les impairments cognitifs ont été reportés par les gens, notamment aux enfants. Et donc, il y a quelques pays où l'électromagnétique de la chambre mobile a été élevé par les écoles et les collèges. Encore la même question. Les humains ne peuvent pas détecter par la présence de l'électromagnétique et de la radiation parce que les humains n'ont pas de récepteur dans le corps humain qui peut détecter. Et donc, cette étude aussi montre que l'électromagnétique de la chambre qui était leur réel et l'exposé de l'exposé ne pouvait pas détecter l'électromagnétique de la chambre mobile. Et c'est pourquoi le problème avec l'électromagnétique et les impairments peut-être parce que vous êtes concentrés trop beaucoup sur votre mobile et pas sur votre travail, pas sur vos études. Et c'est pourquoi ça peut avoir un impact négatif sur l'impact de l'électromagnétique et les impairments, mais on ne devrait pas le faire mal, la chambre mobile ou l'électromagnétique de la chambre mobile. C'est notre objectif et notre travail dans lequel nous sommes dégagés nous-mêmes. Et puis, il y a quelques rapports sur l'infertilité. L'infertilité est causée par l'électromagnétique de la chambre de l'électromagnétique, l'infertilité est causée par l'électromagnétique et la chambre de la chambre. Et il y a d'autres gens qui ont développé ces types d'électromagnétiques où vous avez des dégagés d'électromagnétiques qui sont envisagés, pour que vous puissiez garder votre téléphone dans ça. C'est-à-dire que c'est vrai ? La réponse est qu'il y a beaucoup de études et il y a quelque chose qui s'appelle une review systématique et une analyse métallique qui analyse tous les études et les résultats de l'analyse sont prêts. C'est vrai que l'infertilité de l'électromagnétique peut être réduite, mais ce n'est pas possible si c'est vrai ou pas. La réponse est probablement que si vous regardez l'Indien, la percolation du téléphone et des towers de téléphone a été augmentée exponentiellement pendant les dernières années. Mais est-ce que notre population va descendre ? La réponse est que notre population est encore augmentée. Donc je ne sais pas ce qui est le truc. Mais oui, l'infertilité peut être réduite si l'exposé est là. Mais si ça crée l'implication clinique ou pas, nous ne le connaissons pas. Alors, qu'est-ce qu'il y a de l'entraînement ? Les gens disent que il y a beaucoup de patients qui viennent de nos cliniques et ils disent que mon fils a été utilisé le mobile beaucoup. Et maintenant, l'entraînement est mort, il a été très pauvre parce qu'il était constamment utilisé pour être sur le mobile. Donc, est-ce que ça peut arriver de cette façon ? C'était un étudiant qui a été fait sur l'utilisation d'un téléphone vers un téléphone bluetooth qui a été donné aux gens. Et ils ont étudié ce qui s'est passé en cas d'un téléphone bluetooth qui a été utilisé ou ce qui s'est passé quand un téléphone a été donné à une personne. Et ils ont démontré que le téléphone bluetooth quand il a été donné n'a pas effectué l'audituriel qui a pris la sensation pour l'entraînement de l'air au cerveau. Alors, quand la personne utilise un téléphone, il effectue. Mais, par exemple, nous devons aussi comprendre la méthodologie qui a été employée. Ce qu'ils ont fait, c'était quand ils ont été opérés à une personne comme je l'ai opéré à l'heure, quand cette personne a été opérée, ils ont gardé le téléphone à l'arrière de l'opératif. Et ils ont vérifié la conduction dans le nerf d'un endroit à l'autre et ont vu ce qu'ils ont montré et ce que j'ai montré plus tard. Mais, similarly, ici aussi, ils ont fait la même chose quand ils ont opéré une personne. Ils ont gardé un téléphone bluetooth à l'arrière de l'opératif. Et ils l'ont réalisé. Mais, ce n'est pas comment vous fonctionnez. Vous fonctionnez quand vous avez vos bonnes, vos skins, tout est intact et vous utilisez votre téléphone ici. Les mobiles qui ont été fabriquées et qui ont été utilisées dans l'Indien sont bien sûrs et ne vont pas causer aucun effet pour vous. Donc, la explosion diffère dans toute la vie où le tissu biologique normal réduit l'exposé de l'EMF. Donc, nous ne devons pas ne pas le faire encore. Maintenant, regardez l'imposé du cerveau. Donc, ici, c'est une image thermographique qui montre que la personne n'était pas utilisée en mobile parce que vous étiez en train d'avoir une image thermographique devant vous. Il n'y a pas d'énergie. Il n'y a pas de doute. Donc, parce que cette énergie qui est émettée, votre face peut devenir honte. Mais est-ce que cela ne va pas faire du problème dans votre cerveau? La réponse est non. Le cerveau est très bien régulé. Même si vous êtes en train à l'arrière de l'opératif avec 40 degrés de 50 degrés de centimètre. Parce que c'est très bien régulé. Donc, si cette zone devient une zone qui s'occupe de l'hôpitalité et que l'hôpitalité augmente l'arrière pour qu'il puisse s'occuper d'autres places. Donc, encore une fois, on ne devrait pas parler de cela. Ce n'est généralement pas d'effet clinique et cela ne peut pas causer aucun problème. Maintenant, sur le cerveau, il y a beaucoup de patients qui viennent de nos cliniques. Et ils disent que mon fils a été utilisant un téléphone et dit qu'il a développé un cerveau. Ou, il y a un reportage de l'Ombay que l'hôpitalité de l'hôpitalité a été élevé devant la société. Et puis, il y a 3 ou 4 personnes qui ont développé des tomes de cerveau ou des tomes du corps. Est-ce qu'il se passe? La réponse est non. C'est un téléphone et une radiation. Il y a deux choses qui ont été étudier énormément. Il n'y a pas d'autre chemicale ou d'autres substances qui ont été étudier plus en comparaison à l'électromagnétique de l'hôpitalité et à ses effets de santé. Et même si beaucoup de étudies qui ont été étudier. L'évidence d'assurer que ça cause les tomes de cerveau est hardly there in the literature. There are plus studies and there are minor studies. But if you pull that analysis and you look at them, you again draw something which is called as not because they balance out. So if there is again science is something where a study can be recapitulated. It is just simply not possible. A study which has been conducted in Norway will have a different result but the study conducted in Guwahati will have a different result. No, it is just not possible. Either that study is flawed or this study is flawed. Something somewhere there is a problem. So even despite so much of studies which are there, the evidence to suggest that brain tumours are caused by mobile based phone towers is absolutely not there. OK, so where do we stand? So despite having said this where do we stand? The group WHO has categorized the electromagnetic field radiation as carcinogen, which is of type to be. So based on this, there are many people who say that. OK, WHO says that it's a carcinogen. Why are you saying it's not a carcinogen? The answer is we should understand the categories in which carcinogens have been categorized. Smoking and lung cancer are they correlated? The answer is yes. There are tremendous amount of studies which show that smoking can lead to cancer and that is why it is not carcinogen to be. It will be in one category, one where the evidence is very strong. And what are to be carcinogens? To see to be carcinogens are where the amount of studies which have been done are inconclusive. So there are substances like aloe vera, picket vegetables, talcum powders that you use, many types of perfumes that you use. All these things are considered in carcinogen to be type because somebody somewhere might have published that it's a carcinogen but the same data has not been recaptulated and that is why WHO says okay, let us be on the safer side, let us keep these things as carcinogen to be type. But if later on we will continue to study in case we find something which is significant we are ready to consider it again and that is why these things are in to be. Aloe vera, picket vegetable, talcum powder, emf, radio frequencies all these things are carcinogen to be type. Now the role of media is extremely important. You look at these reports where people say mobile mahr dalega which is there on TV 40% increase in brain tumor is it really true? The lethal network and people will talk what happens if you climb a cell phone tower what will happen to you? Obviously you will fall there is no doubt about it if you climb a mobile phone travel and I've already shown you that yes there are many studies which are there which show that cancer increases, risk increases but it does not been proved by other studies. So the role of media is should be to tell a balanced perspective where they provide a report ok somebody somewhere has said that they have developed a cancer because of use of a certain substance but the expert opinion is also this. So this also should be provided by the media. The media should not be biased because if they are biased it's going to create a bias in the minds of the people itself. So where there is nothing people will start believing there is something where there is smoke there has to be fire this is what the common adage is and this is what people start believing if you start if you lying to people you lie hundred times people consider it to be the truth and this has been shown by the study also that if people are assigned randomly to two groups one group is shown a movie that shows that ok emf can produce unfull effects and the other group is not shown that movie and they're exposed to emf the first group will start experiencing the harmful effects because they have been sensitized for it. So this is what happens if the role of media is not in the right direction. Ok, so greater engagement between journalists and scientists is required to counter these negative effects and what is the role of government? The role of government is government is who? Government is bias only. There will be people sitting in this room who has students who will soon become student leaders and they will go and join the politics. This is what happens in the country who is working in the government department. It is people from your family only you are working in the government department. If I am today passing on a wrong judgment if I am telling you something wrong even my child will be exposed to the electromagnetic field radiation. People from the telecom department they will also be exposed to the wrong kind of radiation. So the role of government is to protect the human rights. And they are also human. They are also exposed to these ways. So do not be skeptical in saying that ok, the government doesn't care about us. No government also cares. People who are there in the government they are from your family only. They do care about their family. They will not pass a judgment which is wrong. At the same time Mr. Mag has already shown you that we have 10 times lower norms than the WHO has proclaimed. What is there to fear? The government is the country is trying to bring progress and the private sector the students everybody has to help the government to achieve that purpose and not do something which is not scientific and because of which the progress can be hampered. And in 2014 if I am not wrong the committee was constituted by the Honourable High Court of Elaba and where the multiple cases in the country wherever they were being filed against the mobile phone based tower or the mobile mobile club together and the Elaba High Court had asked to constitute a committee of the experts which can opine whether these towers are wrong to lead to human harm. And the committee the views of the country were there. There were professors from IIT all major IITs from the Health Institute like AIMS I was there professor from IIT Mumbai everybody was there from ICMR DST everybody was there and we spoke on then on each and every topic that is concerned with the mobile phone based towers and at the end of the day the committee submit to High Court said this that our norms are stricter we are less than 10 times lower level than the WHO prescribe rules and that is why we are pretty safe and this is what the current evidence and there are multiple beneficial effects we are only talking about the wrong and powerful effect so there are multiple beneficial mobiles moves can also lead to a positive bio positive cognitive exposure in a person and look at the mobile and from the medical paradigm this paper has been published from Nepal where the people will take days to reach the hospital because they are also living in such far-clame area of the Himalayas it is not possible to travel but with the use of technology the doctor can consult a patient right at the home and provide them some consultation and help them and this is all in the institute of medical sciences when we were students we had to see the patient we had to report it in the middle of the night to our consultant we will see the MRI and we will send the MRI by the driver but right now to the consultant house to take the position and right now the resident sees he sends the images on mobile to a person who is there in the operation room this is me who is operating this is my colleague and we can see you know, right in our office you know, at home and we can provide a consultation to the person who is there in the casualty and the life is saved so there are so many beneficial effects of mobile I don't know how many lives have been lost but I can surely tell you that hundreds and thousands of people have been saved because of the use of this right and we do not require evidence for everything we cannot be evidence biased evidence based is okay but we cannot be evidence biased so you don't require a study to show you that parachute is required when jumping from the aeroplane it is required there is no doubt about it you don't have to run a study for it so you all understand that mobile phone use is required to improve to progress provide information but at the same time I mean, it is very difficult because the whole of the population is exposed so it is very difficult to confusion I have a very difficult qualitative impact and negative impact I must say that everything has two ends and a middle if you grab one end the other will slide but if you take the middle both ends will balance and that is how it should be you should use the mobile technology for your benefit the government will take care of what is right and what is wrong and you please follow what has been recommended by the government the term is there the LSA is there in your area of the department of telecommunication in case you feel that a mobile phone tower is emitting more signals than usual you can complain to them they can go and check it and penalize a person or stop it but for God's sake just do not be resident welfare associations which continue to say that remove the mobile phone tower remove the mobile phone tower because if that happens you will have call drops you will have problems use technology judiciously for your own benefit and stick to the balance middle tower in everything that you do and with this I must say our country is progressing even today we see so many students who are coming from the downtrodden areas who are coming to AIMS who are coming to IIT because now they have the power to use the mobile and the technology the knowledge is free today and it is being and it is a tremendous leap in the country where we are saying that even the poorest of poor can study we would like our country to progress we would like our country to have knowledge which is free we would like our country to where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way we should have scientific thinking behind whatever we are doing and our mind should always be left forward by our actions and with this I would like to thank the organisers for inviting me and if there are quick questions I can take one or two questions because I have to rush back to operation room thank you if anybody have any question the doctor actually one way special is waiting in the operation data you are supposed to meet the person at 4.20 it's already 4.35 so quickly if anybody have any question you can ask the doctor and I in the meantime I thank Dr. Vivek Tendall for enlightening us there was very illuminating and I joined the KK Handig State Opinion University family in thanking you what we now know is that X-ray is more harmful than mobile and MRI is less harmful and what we do not know is whether aloe vera and pickled vegetables are more dangerous than ENF so with that I thank you Dr. Vivek Tendall again if anybody have any question anybody? yeah, there is a question I just like to take the opportunity to ask a question related it's kind of related I would just like to know if electric transformers are these harmful? I got to know about mobile targets what about those electric transformers can you answer can I answer this question very quickly before I leave we can see you anything that has electricity involved will obviously produce electromagnetic field radiation the highest amount of electromagnetic field radiation is produced by high power lines that you see which are coming from the grids and they are going through the through the fields so sometime back maybe in 1970s 80s 90s there were a lot of studies which were held to study the effect of electromagnetic field radiations on people who are living around these lines and not the transformers which do not produce as much radiation and moreover people are not living right underneath the transformer they are living slightly away from the transformer and the lines that reach the transformers usually they are not of very high power because they are usually located these transformers are located which you are probably talking about in the vicinity where you live so these are not very high power lines but if you think of voltage which is in thousands yes that can produce electromagnetic field radiation which is stronger and there were reports that they can lead to blood cancer but ultimately all these reports have been refuted and in subsequent literature which is in the recent parlance in 1990s 2000 these reports have not been confirmed so it is believed that the electrical lines are safe yes it is better to avoid living underneath a high power electrical line but it has not been shown to produce any harmful health effects as such thank you sir I will have to leave because I have to go to operation room and I think it is already 4.43 so I am sorry I will have to leave thank you


So guys I am back with another power world video and today guys I'm going to showcase to you how you can get your very own base vendor. So if there's a vendor out there in the open world and you want to do it in your base, if you want to be able to purchase off him when and where you want, don't worry guys, today I'll explain exactly how you can do this. How's it going guys? My name is DPGM. Before we go any further I'm giving away a couple copies of this game. To be in the chance of winning, simply drop a like on the video, leave a comment down below and make sure you are subbed with those notifications turned on. Good luck. Okay so as you can see right here guys I have quite a few vendors here. I've got the travelling merchants, I've got the power merchants, I've got the black marketeers they're all in my prison up here. They're captured and ain't going anywhere. But the thing is these guys here guys I can literally, let's just say let's take you through that I can now put these in my base, go and buy from them whenever I want purchase the materials I need whenever I want and you can also rotate the power vendors stack to, uh, stack, uh, stock. Okay so if I put them, let's say I put them here, there you go, all three vendors I can simply just walk up to them, talk to them and then I can purchase whatever one of them. That guy's got all that stuff this guy, I don't know if this is a power vendor, no this is another wonder merchant this guy's got like foods and organs and things like that and then we've got this guy here, here's the black marketeer who sells um, if you want to come away from a machine and make me pick you up he sells powers, you can also sell your powers to him so you can see right here guys, and purchase powers, sell powers whenever you want you can also rotate his stock by simply putting him back in a box and taking him back out it's that simple, it is that simple and there we go, it's actually got a war sack there yeah, simple as that guys, so yeah you want your very own base vendors this is how you do it, this is how you achieve it, well firstly guys what you've got to do is locate a vendor you want so for instance if you come to the small settlement which is right there which we'll go to guys and I'll showcase to you and the black marketeer will explain a few tips I can capture this dude he's a little bit harder to capture, he's a bit of a tank there's a vendor down there and there's also a power vendor right here power merchant, so what you do guys with these is just take them down to a low health and you see it on the screen now and it's captured with those spheres the better spheres are probably going to be needed, the standard ones are a bit poor as soon as you've got them guys, they are yours now to take back to your base build them a cage, build them their very own shop, you can do what you want to do now the black marketeer, let's go back to the fast travel point I'll show you where this guy is and he's here 24 hours, normally they just appear at night time but this guy's here 24 hours, you can see where I am right there guys I've got a bit of bread there, I've got such bagged stick drift okay so you want to go to a desert church you see where I'm at on a map, I'll zoom in there because I've never got one let's go here now the thing is with this guy I can hear a shiny, what shiny is that? you're coming home with me where are ya? you can hear it oh shit that's not what I wanted to do that's a big peaker yep you're coming home okay so I'll cut the video guys and I'll be back in a quick second when I got this guy down so this guy is almost done for come to me and there we have it, a shiny spark that's all I need in my life okay so let's resume the video let's resume the video, good job I adjusted my settings to make it be a bit more powerful so I can show you guys how you glitch this black marketeer easier so let's go to this dude so he's located around here underneath here you can see that little cave there right ahead of us zoom out on the map again, zoom back in you can see where I'm at and he's located inside of this cave for his mine shaft okay so I had to cut the video there because I messed up and I accidentally killed him which is what we don't want to be doing, we want to be capturing him well I'll explain either or guys so I've adjusted my settings to make me a little more powerful so it don't take me all day because when you come here and try and fight this guy you'll notice he's one tanky mofo, he sponges but how this works is it's quite simple so you come up to him and you'd attack him and talk to him straight away what this does is it takes his health down but it takes him out of the fight in animation so he can keep you in its own attack and there you go, right like that you see like that, I've shot him I spoke to him and now he's at the animation so now I can leave and do that again over and over now what you will notice is his power is spawning, they glitch out too what you can also do guys is you can spawn in your own power put him on attack aggressively and as they're attacking you simply just keep talking to him, so you'll see now just spam it, just spam the talk button just keep spamming the talk button he won't be able to get, he'll be stuck in the animation just keep doing it just until he's obviously at a low health just keep spamming keep spamming when he gets knocked down, make sure you're right next to him when he gets back up, talk to him again just keep doing it, and that's what you do guys you do that over and over until this health's really low once you've got this health really low that's when you have to capture him and again you're going to need the best of spheres to do this the standard spheres are not going to work so yeah just say capture him if you do kill him, you'll get a massive chunk of that gold, and you also get 3 gold keys as well which is cool but yeah guys, and you'll see on the screen now me capturing, you can see my my power's kind of struggling here trying to take his health, I'm telling you he's got so much health you'll see me capturing him now guys and he's simply taking back to your base and you are good to go you really are, in fact you know what you'll see that on the screen now I'm capturing him, I'm actually just going to kill him because I like the gold and you'll see the gold now the amount you get is unbelievable I think it's like 40k something like that okay so he just slammed me into the wall he thinks he's bad, there we go, he's down and his power I wonder if he could capture his power so he saw the gold there, 32,000 it's not between 30,000 and 45,000 and 3 gold keys, so yeah that's what you get for killing him and now to reset him if you want to do that over and over guys you simply quit out of the game and come back into the game he will have respawned on the spot over and over, will have forgiven you completely forgot what you did to him and you can just do it over and over but now let's say you caught him because you want to take him back to your base and use him as a pal that's all you do, take him back to your base, put him in your base and you're good that's all you're good now I'm going to show you another couple of vendors I recommend you do go on and get in because they're quite good and I saw that high quality pal oil they sell a few other things there's another shiny there shiny there what is going on with this game today I haven't seen a shiny in about 3 or 4 days now I've seen 2 in a matter of minutes now this guy's a low half, is that going to kill him no you're coming with me you're... I killed him shit pissy now I didn't think that last hour was going to kill him fuck's sake, okay so forget about that so the other vendor I recommend you come in and get in is Dan here but I'm left Fisherman's Fisherman's point, this is where you want to come to so I'll fast travel down there guys and I'll meet there okay so we're at Fisherman's point here and there's actually 3 vendors here there's this guy right here guys he just sells a bit of jewelry, a weapon I think and he also sells bullets which is cool if you don't want to craft your own you know, capture him take him back to your base, one of you is one of them I am and there's this dude right here and this dude sells like the he's got the high quality palm oil, he's got the tomatoes he's got flame organs, he's got seeds horns, bones, leather whatever you need guys these guys are really easy to catch they're weak, you'll catch them quite quickly they're nothing like the black mugs that's what you do have to be careful of though if you start fighting these guys you will get the wanted status on your screen so just be careful there but you should be you should be able to catch these quite easy you still want to be using the better the better spheres though, you don't want to be using the I've probably got ultra spheres are probably the best I wouldn't waste your legendaries on them they take too many materials to a farm but yeah, we'll capture this guy don't worry you do my head and mate get out of it come and get into my life man what are you playing at? come on, come on, one more there we go, so he's caught so there's another one, I've already got him twice don't know why I'm catching him again but yeah put him back in my prison there we go, this guy here sells the pearls and it's the same thing with the black market here if you want to reset your stock or rotate your stock in your base you then simply put him in your pocket box and take him back out you can also go ahead and sell your pearls to him too that's pretty cool because you know what, the more you got of him the more power you can rotate at the same time the more of a chance you land in something you want you know what I mean people you know what I mean people okay, so you're good we'll catch you straight away first time there we go, it's what we like to see first time I don't want you already got your your stock doesn't rotate so yeah okay, so now guys we go back to our base back to our base go to my castle just like salt and now I'm going to add him into my I've got that one there a base full of people and there we go, there they are both there good, great all the materials I need in my life okay so now he's got his rotating stock and again to rotate his stock take him out and you're good and there we have it guys, that is how you get a base full of vendors and again there's vendors all over the map there's loads of them different kind of areas so if there's one you come across if you know what I could do, we've seen him more often tame the dude capture him and imprison him imprison the mofo yeah, back to my base as well newbies, what a monster I've tried to record a video on it I've uploaded the video twice I keep getting a video processing area on it so yeah, I'm going to have to do it again I do a complete tour of my base you can see right there guys, I've got my prison with my my boss Zoe and Grisbolt and there we have it, but yes guys this is how you capture use and abuse those vendors guys if you enjoyed the video leaving a like really helps if you want to see more be sure to subscribe and hopefully my better utility for people I will see you on that next one


Hi, this is the host of Nibbārthi and today we have with us Jim McGuardia, co-founder and CEO at Nirmata, Jim. It's great to have you on the show. Thank you Swapna. Great to be here. Since this is the kind of first time we're talking to each other on camera, so I would love to know a bit about the company itself.  So Nirmata is in the Kubernetes governance and operation space. So as you know, today containers have become the de facto way of packaging any application and Kubernetes has emerged as the, you know, a container orchestrator of choice across data center, cloud and edge. But as more and more clusters are being deployed, as more, you know, developers, operators, security teams are using Kubernetes, what we learned working with customers is there's a need for strong governance and policies across the enterprise. So that's what Nirmata does and provides for its customers. Nirmata was created almost at the same time or before, you know, Kubernetes was officially announced. It was the early days of, you know, containers as well. How much have you seen the space has changed because, you know, you predate a lot of these technologies, so the company itself has evolved, but you have also seen the evolution there. So talk about that. So certainly a lot has evolved in the space, right? So when we started, of course, containers were still people were questioning why containers versus VMs, you know, those sort of questions are, of course, all gone away today. And as, you know, Kubernetes, at that time, you know, there were different orchestrators, like even Mesos, Swarm, but Kubernetes has emerged as the standard and as the choice across the community, right? So now that all major cloud providers, all infrastructure renders have supported Kubernetes, the community is very strong. And we're seeing more and more enterprises adopt Kubernetes as their choice. Now, once again, you're talking about the evolution of, you know, the whole, the way we write, run, deploy, manage applications. When we look at cloud, cloud native, cloud native is more of a kind of process, or it's not a, it's not a thing, it's not a place, it's a way of doing things. So can you also talk about how has the rule of policy and governance evolved in the cloud native space? And also if you can also kind of specifically, what is, it's important to the Kubernetes world? Right, yeah, great questions, right? So first off, Kubernetes is one of the first platforms that was designed for the DevOps era, right? So it brings together concerns, not just of the developers, but also of the operations team, the security team. And of course, the whole goal of adopting Kubernetes and containers is agility. You want to give developers the freedom and the flexibility to deploy code faster, to be able to push to production. But how do you do this and still keep centralized visibility, to centralize policies and enforce those organizational compliance requirements? So that's where policies come in. And to your second question, in terms of how policies have evolved, if you take policies and kind of marry them with cloud native, what we believe the right way to solve this is with policies that are native to Kubernetes. So if we love Kubernetes for deploying configurations, why not use its extensible API to make policies native to Kubernetes and use all the same tooling, all the same goodness like GitOps, everything else we are doing for Kubernetes, also to manage policy as code across multiple clusters. When it comes to policies, governance, what is the state today? How many people are aware of it? When you look at this, are you still in the face where you still have to do a lot of education, awareness about that? Are you in the face of, hey, people are already in the maturity curve and we just have to help them in their journey? Great question, right? So I am also in the CNCF. I'm a co-chair of the policy working group. And within the CNCF, our charter is to promote awareness of these key fundamental technologies, like policies. So more and more people are recognizing that once they put Kubernetes into productions, policy are as essential as networking storage and other security concerns. And within the CNCF also what we've seen, besides Kiverno, there's also OPA gatekeeper as a project, which is a policy engine. There's other policy engines being built. So there's growing awareness about this need and for good solutions to solve and to address the concerns here. Now, let's talk about project itself. So the Kiverno project has moved to CNCF incubator phase. So first of all, talk about Kiverno project itself. Then let's talk about what does moving into incubator actually mean? Right. Yeah, so Kiverno emerged as a module in the Nirmata governance and operations platform, and we open sourced it about a year and a half ago, and we donated it to CNCF. So since then, the community has grown almost 500%. We've reached about 260 million image pools of Kiverno, which has kind of exceeded our wildest expectations in terms of the project growth itself. But just seeing the download, seeing the community grow is not enough for incubation. Incubation in the CNCF journey, there's three phases. There's sandbox, there's incubation, and then graduated. Projects, of course, like Kubernetes itself and Prometheus are graduated because of their maturity, because of their large adoption. So Kiverno started as sandbox, but to get to incubation, you have to prove not only is there a need for that solution, but there's production users who can vouch for it, who have deployed it and are solving very key use cases for their businesses with that project. So those are some of the due diligence things we have to go to, and then the Kubernetes Technical Oversight Committee votes on this, and it requires a supermajority vote to go from sandbox to incubation. In most cases, especially when you look at company like Nirmada, most of what that you folks are doing is that there's already a user base, you are releasing it into an open source. So what is the situation with Kiverno here, how mature it is already? So look, the term incubating, and Kubernetes was graduated after a while, but people are using it in production. So what I understand is with Kiverno also, how mature the project is, is it already being used in production? And if yes, what kind of use cases are you seeing there? Yeah, so certainly what we're seeing in the community is that there are, like I mentioned, already production users who have to give their votes to the Technical Oversight Committee for Kiverno to get to incubation. So today, we are seeing thousands of users deploying Kiverno in their clusters. The types of use cases we see are starting from security, where things as you might know, pod security got deprecated in version 1.22 of Kubernetes. It was removed in version 1.25. And what, you know, Kiverno becomes an alternative for fine grain control of security at every level of your workload, starting from pods to other workloads, as well as being able to automate concerns across developer and operation teams who are managing the cluster. Let's also go a bit detail into Kiverno and explain what exactly does it do, how it helps, you know, for second users. Right. So Kiverno runs inside every Kubernetes cluster and it acts as an admission controller. So what that means is in Kubernetes, as different components are communicating through the Kubernetes API server, Kiverno has the ability to inspect each API request and validate configurations or mutate configurations or generate new configurations on the fly. So this creates a very powerful set of use cases for security and automation, including things like software supply chain security where you can sign and verify container images. You can check for attestations and provenance to make sure your images are coming from a trusted source.  So extremely powerful and rich set of use cases. We have over 200, you know, sample policies in our community library and growing rapidly. Can you also talk about, of course, it's an incubation phase. What is the process for it to graduate eventually? Do you have something in the mind? And what does graduation really mean for users? Because as we discussed earlier, that most of these products are already in the production. Right. Yeah. So certainly, you know, like we were talking about, you know, the production adopters even at the sandbox phase at the incubation phase. It means that that has CNCF's vote of confidence to say that this project is critical to Kubernetes and should be used in production Kubernetes clusters. And the graduated phase really becomes, you know, it's more of a matter of time and scale where you are kind of proving other performance criteria, other scalability criteria. And you have a big enough community for the project itself. Earlier, we were talking about there are other projects also about policy management. Can you also talk about, you know, what other projects are there and how does, you know, Kiverno kind of either complements them or offers more benefits to users with these projects? Right. Yeah. So some of the other projects for policy management are, like I mentioned, OPA Gatekeeper, which has been, you know, it started about one or two years ahead of Kiverno. So that project is based on a technology called Open Policy Agent, which uses a language called REGO for authorization and for policies. So the challenge with that that users have faced is they need to learn an external language and they have to manage policies using that language and, you know, author policies in that. So Kiverno, on the flip side, is designed for Kubernetes from the beginning. It doesn't require learning any new language. It uses Kubernetes's declarative configuration management for policies. And it also, you know, the policy reports as well as the other aspects of Kubernetes, it fully understands and embraces all of those patterns, those idioms to make it very simple to manage policies in Kubernetes itself. So that's the primary differentiation. Another major differentiation is Kiverno policies are not just for security, validation, and blocking configs, but they can also be used to automate various configurations, right? So when a namespace is created, for example, in Kubernetes, to automatically generate network policies, to default secrets, role-based access control primitives, all of that can be automated through Kiverno, which is extremely powerful for security, as well as operations teams. What kind of community is there along this project? Now, Kiverno is a very strong end-user community, right, which we're very excited and proud about. Most of our contributors tend to be end users versus vendors. So we see very much real-world use cases, and these end users range from, you know, in the 5G space, you know, folks like Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom, and these are public users. These are folks, you know, who are active on the Kiverno contributors list, as well as in the community. In the enterprise space, we see large financials like Bloomberg, so very diverse, very growing, and of course, there's several, you know, hundreds of smaller users and overall thousands of deployments where we are seeing Kiverno being adopted. What kind of roadmap you have for the project? What are the things that are in the pipeline that you are working on? Yeah, so extremely active roadmap, one of the, you know, features that we have collaborated with a team from IBM labs, research labs in the building is, you know, for YAML signing and verification. So basically the idea is not just to secure your container images, but using Kiverno to sign and verify YAMLs itself. So, you know, secure like the certain configurations cannot be tampered with for security reasons within the cluster itself. So that's one feature we're also coming up with other, you know, performance improvements in terms of further scalability for Kiverno. We also have, you know, OCI registration which is coming in or, you know, integration with using OCI registries to store Kiverno policies, right? So several exciting features and we're constantly like adding to our roadmap based on end user requests as well as needs. Jim, thank you so much for taking time out today and talk about the project, talk about the company and also, you know, talk about the larger problem which is there in this evolving market in the evolving phase when it comes to policy and governance and sharing the whole journey which predates Kubernetes and containers so thank you for sharing those insights and I would love to have you back on the show again. Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Sutner.


That doesn't sound normal. So let's track him off. I'm gonna break him. Hey, help me out! Sound effects to match our ride?  Please suck. You guys are watching this.   If it keeps going and making that noise, I'm gonna freak out. It sounds like it's farting. Did you hear the noises? This thing better have brakes. Did we break? This thing has an eight-launch coaster. Oh, my vape's in my pocket.