Good afternoon. Can all of you hear me? Great. Thank you, Steve, for this wonderful introduction and as an open group, you know, staff, it's a privilege to be presenting here because this is actually, as you can see, this is actually going to be a case study, a reference architecture that is currently in progress and we interact very closely with the government of India over the past about a year now in the development and now the rollout of the reference architecture itself. So as I said, this is a work in progress. This is a work in progress and, you know, I'll walk you through the entire journey. One of the thing that makes my presentation slightly easier is because the previous presenters have already spoken about the value of reference architectures, the benefit it provides to the context and the foundation has already been established so it makes it easier for you to kind of understand why a reference architecture was required from a national enterprise architecture perspective. The question that I typically, you know, get quite often is that how is it to work with the government or advise the government and actually it's been a great, you know, great experience interacting with the government of India and some of the state governments that we work with very closely. And frankly, the fact is, in general, I've worked with the government domain for quite a few years, almost two decades now in different roles, both small and large governments. One of the things that I've seen is that in certain areas in terms of the way governments want to change, governments are actually quite advanced in terms of their receptiveness to change and that's what this slide actually shows you. This kind of gives you the characteristics that the governments are trying to achieve using enterprise architecture. I'll tell you about the journey a little later. But what the governments are basically trying to achieve is that they're trying to become more, you know, collaborative, more flexible. They are delivering their services through multiple channels. They're becoming more outcome driven. Transparency is definitely one of, on their cards and they do, you know, keep in mind that citizens are part of this entire transformation. I'm going to show you one slide how citizens are actually involved because typically what you see is whenever there is a discussion around enterprise architecture, a lot of discussion is about business and the technology and suddenly all of us forget that there are people, you know, when you're talking of public services, somebody is consuming those services and those services are citizens and people. So that's why that role is very important. Now, having said that, that the governments are willing to change and there is a lot of receptiveness to, you know, adopt new technologies. There's one thing that we have to keep in mind when you're dealing with governments is that typically in large countries, you know, US, as an example, you have multiple levels of government. You could have federal government. I'm sure you have. You have a state government. You have provincial government. You could have governments even at the city level and which is what this picture is actually showing. Now, again, as I said in a large country, these governments could belong to different political parties and we all understand if they belong to different political parties, the politics of it is probably 100x larger than any corporate organization. I mean, the previous speaker was speaking about politics. When you see the politics and government, that's, I mean, it's absolutely, it's a shortstopper. It would be a game changer if you know how to deal with the politics of it. And amidst all of this stuff, you still have to figure out how do you have to come up with a reference architecture which is acceptable, more or less, if I may use that word acceptable to governments at all levels. And that's precisely what we were trying to achieve when the National Enterprise Architecture Committee, which was set up by the ministry, was developing this reference architecture. So the foundation of this is the e-government journey that India has been through in the past 40 years. So as you can see, this is a longitudinal slide which starts on the left, basically, in terms of computerization, getting the computers into the government processes, if you will. Moving on, there was a realization that, yes, now we do have the computers, let's focus more on improving the efficiency of the processes, efficiency of the procedures and automate some of those things. So that was the second generation, if you will, of the e-governance journey. The third generation was now that we have some business process automation into the government procedures and processes. Can we therefore now develop and adopt standards? Because now there's a whole idea of scalability. And you cannot achieve scalability without standards, which I think all of us understand. That's where the open group plays a very important role. And the focus was, let's focus on the output, not on the input. So that's the third generation of e-governance. And the current generation, which is called digital India, is the fourth one which you see on the right hand side, which started in 2014. It's called the digital India. If you google it up, you can see a lot of material around that. And the focus there is more on collaboration, flexibility, personalized services and focusing more on the outcome of it. You can provide a lot of inputs from a government service perspective, but the output and the outcome are more important. And governments have realized that. And in moving from left to right, what we are starting to see is that there is a move from digitalization to digitalization. Because the entire ecosystem is now using digital technologies. I'm going to show you what are the key dimensions that government of India uses. All right. So this is a survey done by UN. And you can see a few countries listed there. This is a global survey, but not all the countries, but major countries are involved. You can see India there in number four. And what it tells you is what are the citizens expecting of their governments, of their digital governments, right? So you can see India there. Number one is plan for the long term, not just for the next few years. And effectively what that meant was when we came up with the reference architecture, when the government came up with the reference architecture, it had to work beyond election cycles. Because one of the thing that happens is that once the previous administration goes away, the new one, you know, tries to undo whatever has been done by the previous one, even if the previous one is good enough, right? So that is something that the citizens are expecting, make it beyond election cycles. Number two is understand the priorities of the citizens better. And that's an important part, which I was alluding to earlier. You can talk about all the business and the technology in the operational aspect. But if the citizens are not involved, they're not participating in the process, it is not going to be successful, right? And number three is, is involve the citizens themselves. And obviously you can compare it with a few other countries. The US is there, which is at the end. And then there are a few small countries like Singapore, Singapore, and you can actually compare how, you know, how citizens in different countries are expecting governments to provide services. Okay, so how it all started was this. There is this propensity to build future government, which actually leads to more complexity in the services, right? More and more services are being delivered by the government. They're being multi-channel services. Different types of people have different expectations of the services. So there is a, you know, there's an element of complexity which brings, you know, which comes into the play. And there is a lot of other, you know, other factors that play. You can see the factors there. For instance, governments are trying to innovate service delivery. They're trying to make governments, it's becoming more and more data driven. Because I think we all agree that governments have huge amount of data, more than any other organization that you could talk of. So for instance, the citizen database in India, which is called Aadhaara UID, is a larger citizen database in the world with the number of, you know, entries in terms of 1.2 billion people have their databases there, you know, the individual data. So that is the scale that we are talking about. So therefore what happens is once the complexity of the government increases, citizens' expectations from the government's also included, which is what I showed you in the previous slide. Now once the citizen expectation increases, government realizes that therefore I have to use technology to deliver some of these services. It cannot be done manually, we understand that. And therefore I'll come to the corruption perception later on and why the box is in yellow. And then it goes to, you know, therefore it improves the trust in government. So if you look at, there was a survey done, in fact it's hotter of the press, like a week back. There was a survey result report published by the OECD. And India actually ranks number two in terms of people trusting the government, Norway being number one in Indonesia being number three. So trust in government is a very important factor when you talk of reference architectures. So this kind of, you know, becomes a very, very positive kind of, you know, loop, so to speak, adds to the overall, you know, receptiveness of, you know, building the future government, which tends to be more technology enabled. Now moving forward, let's see, yeah. So once you see here, once you have the technology enablement coming in, that is where the digital government comes in. Now what the government of India and the state government is realizing is that while it is good to, you know, digitize or digitalize the government, I think what it should actually do is, you know, help in developing the digital economy itself of the entire country. And that's what you see here. And once the digital economy is developed, it actually brings in more investment in terms of IT service providers and other technology service providers, which is what is showing. Again, that is a positive loop. So the reason I'm showing you this is, I don't intend to show you the entire analysis, but reason I'm showing you this is how it got started. You know, what was the trigger point in terms of doing this reference architecture. Now as a result of which there was this one state called Andhra Pradesh, this is on the Indian map, you see that state there, therefore decided that we had to do, that state had to do an enterprise architecture, a statewide enterprise architecture. So look at the journey, right? Even though the government has realized that you had to have a reference architecture, it was not the first step that was taken. The first step was taken by a state, not the entire, you know, federal government, because that is how it happens typically. You need to have an architecture implementation, you need to have success stories before the commonalities can be put together as a reference architecture. It is not a good idea to have the reference architecture first, because otherwise you don't have the learning points and that is exactly how it played out. So this is a state called Andhra Pradesh, it's actually, you know, there's some data about the state, 10 cities, 13 districts, 670 sub districts, villages about 13,000 population, 50 million, right? It's about the size of a, you know, about the size of a country. What I'll do is, I'll play a video, can we run the video now? It's a short five minute video which will give you a summary of what enterprise architecture was. We have sound, it's on mute. Embark upon Andhra Pradesh state enterprise architecture. Andhra Pradesh is undoubtedly a trailblazer and frontrunner of the Indian IT sector. The government of Andhra Pradesh's singular aim to actualize sunrise Andhra Pradesh will catapult it into the realm of the best. For making the sunrise Andhra Pradesh vision a reality, the government of Andhra Pradesh in association with the WEPROLIMITED has embarked upon Andhra Pradesh state enterprise architecture. Now called Ipragati. AP's Ipragati is the country's first statewide enterprise architecture initiative. It will drive public sector transformation and will help realize the dream of a one government that is fully oriented towards improving the quality of life of its citizens. Ipragati focuses on guiding and accelerating AP's journey to that for transformed government. It enables collaboration among departments to deliver personalized services which will lead to an accountable outcome driven government. Elevating the effectiveness and quality of government services is not merely a matter of deploying leading edge technologies. It demands visionary leadership, strategic wisdom, full sight, clear direction and sound execution mechanisms. Connected governments have deeper engagement, encourage participation and collaboration and exhibit greater openness and transparency. As a result, they can deliver services that are more personalized and choice based being anchored in the whole of government paradigm. Enterprise architecture framework is used to ensure the IT infrastructure and services are always in sync. This leads to better implementation of goals. Ipragati places special emphasis upon the agricultural sector. This will bring back the lost sheen of agriculture and its allied activities, rendering them profitable once more. Apart from the agriculture sector, Ipragati also strives to provide a wide range of services to citizens, business entities and employees. The agricultural marketplace is also undergoing a sea change. E-Mundi provides facilities for online sale and purchase of agricultural commodities. Certificate less governance is a revolutionary idea with the goal to make all government related ideas electronic and accessible in real time. It makes access to the curriculum of top universities easy for students anytime, anywhere. Quality education is now just a click away. E-Highway is envisaged as a passageway of information between consumers and provider applications across the entire government. The entire government of Andhra Pradesh is putting its might behind making Ipragati a reality sooner rather than later. Welcome to a citizen-centric connected government. Welcome to Sunrise Andhra Pradesh, the new land of opportunities. All right, so this is, as you can see, the video was made by the state government and this was in 2015-2016. I'll not go into the details of this video. I've made a full one-hour presentation in our London conference and it's a recorded session. It's available on YouTube. So if you're interested to know what happened, the entire journey, you could actually look at that. So this was in 2015-2016. One state had an enterprise architecture, a statewide enterprise architecture. This prompted the national government, the federal government, to take up and say, hey, there's something useful here. We're doing the entire digital India. We need to have an architecture to kind of provide the foundation and that's where the concept of reference architecture came in. So one of the biggest benefits of reference architecture, which has been already kind of mentioned and emphasized by the previous speakers, is now we have a state, which is an example. We have a few other ministries who are doing enterprise architecture. Now that we have a reference architecture, we could reduce the time to consume, build and consume enterprise architecture for the other 28 states and seven territories of India. And that was the motivation to develop a national reference architecture. So I'll not go into the benefits of this. I think the previous speakers have already spoken about it. The idea was to kind of provide synergies to other states, provide something that gives them a head start, so to speak. So the reference architecture itself is called INDEA, so India Enterprise Architecture Framework. It consists of two parts. These are public documents. Now it's a national standard, right? So part one is the framework itself, which is the collection of eight reference models and part two is an adoption guide, right? So the entire reference architecture is based on Togaf and the Togaf ADM is basically the reference methodology, which we have used. I'll kind of highlight that later on in a couple of slides. Because one thing that is important from a reference architecture development point of view is you can have all the beautiful models. You're going to see some of those models here. But unless you have adoption guidance, you know, there is nobody is going to be really, you know, excited by what a reference architecture itself is. Because if you go to a state government or a ministry or let's say a city government, yeah, this is a great document. Then how do I adopt it? That's why the part two was written and it's kind of based on the ADM, Togaf ADM. I was talking about the eight dimensions, eight reference models that we have in part one. So these are the eight reference models. Okay, so we have the business reference model, performance, integration, security. On the left, we have the application data technology. And at the bottom, we have the architecture governance reference model. So these are the eight dimensions of perspectives, whatever you might call them, that we have in the part one of the framework, right? I think some of these terms are quite familiar to all of you. I'm talking to a group of people who are quite familiar with enterprise architecture, right? What are the dimensions that we look at? Number one is having good digital leadership. And this is as defined by the United Nations. So the other thing that we have kept in mind in developing this reference architecture is we had, we had to look at industry standards. And for us, industry standards is government. And where, you know, agencies like UN and World Bank come in very handy, right? Some of the standards that they have developed is definitely providing the base framework for us. Second is literacy. So for instance, one of the questions that we typically ask is if I provide a digital service, right? What should be the literacy level of the person who's consuming the service? Should it be a grade five? Should it be or should it be for everybody or should it be a grade 12, you know, kind of person? That's very important because you need to be able to operate that smartphone or mobile phone to consume the service. Number three, cybersecurity. I don't think it requires any explanation, right? It's important because all the data is out there on the internet, so it's important. And that comes back to the next, you know, dimension which is data protection. So one of the key things that has happened as a result of the reference architecture is now India's in the development, in the process of developing a data protection framework, you know, very similar to the European GDPR. Amount is important and development and, you know, adoption of cloud services. I think one of the previous speakers was saying if you don't adopt cloud, you're not going to survive and absolutely that's true even in the public sector. So the first thing that we did was set a definition. Typically you've seen, I think the previous speaker was, you know, talking about the word digital and obviously he had a message there, the way he was kind of using the word digital. A lot of us use the word digital with no meaning, right? So first we did was what is, what does it mean when you say a digital service? We had to define that term, the first aspect of reference architecture. Is delivered via internet or an electronic network consisting of services, not goods. There's no physical transfer of goods because if the service requires a physical activity then it doesn't qualify as a fully digital service. Okay, so for instance if the service is about immunizing children, the final act of delivery of that vaccination, administering that vaccination to that person cannot be digitized. So it doesn't qualify as a fully digital service, right? We define that. Number two, let's see, involves storage and communication of information in electronic form rather than on paper form. I think that's quite clear. All right? Number three includes if any exchange of funds by card or electronic methods. So rather than cash, even check payment is considered paper payment. Okay, check payment in India is going to be abolished in three months' time. Okay? Involves no or minimal human intervention traversing the entire journey that is from the, you know, service initiation all the way to the service consumption. Is smooth and continuous, not impeded by gaps inconsistencies between various parts or segments of the journey. What that effectively means is it needs to be integrated. The citizen should not be saying that I am moving from one department to another just to consume the service because these departments do not interact with one another. So putting all of these principles in mind and of course it cannot be fulfilled without the use of ICT. This is the definition that we came up with. Digital service is a paperless, cashless, faceless service delivered seamlessly over information technology networks. And the reason we had this definition is because it defines the very essence of what architecture is going to do, what the reference architecture is going to do because this is how governments interact with the people. It's the delivery of the service, public service. Okay? So these are the different dimensions of digital services. You can see we have taken care of the front end part. So these are the elements that interact with the citizens and the back end part where the citizens don't interact but it's important for the government administration to take care of that aspect. So in a nutshell what we are doing is we are setting the framework for the entire reference architecture. This is exactly what the reference architecture is supposed to do and very importantly the role of standards in making this happen is cannot be overstated. All right? If I want to support digital payment there are standards around that. If I want to support digital transactions that are standards around that and that's precisely why the role of standards is so important. All right? So I'm going to show you a few pictures of what the reference model looks like. So this is the first one which is basically the conceptual model for the performance reference model as the name says it's about performance of the government. So what we have done is we have adopted the sustainable development goals from the United Nations as our base performance framework. So what the UN does is it identifies different areas and goals and metrics on those areas and then based on that we have come up with the performance reference model. So what we have done here is identified that and also kind of acknowledged the fact that instead of measuring the input you need to measure the output and the outcome and there are certain economic dimensions. All right? So one of the so just to give you an example one of the inputs could be the amount of subsidies that are provided to farmers. Maybe that's an input. The output could be as a result of which how much is the improvement in the yield of the farming output and the outcome would be as a result of that how many youngsters actually got into farming as a profession. So as you see as you move from input to output to outcome it becomes more and more difficult and subjective to measure but it's important from a government perspective. Okay? I'm not going to the details of this. The next one is the business reference model which basically gives a structure to the business of government. So what we do here is we have identified the goals and objectives which comes from the previous layer which is the performance reference model linked it to the sectors and departments and the services that the government provides. Right now therefore once we have a basic structure in the reference model the business reference model every state can adopt it and adapt it to suit their requirements. So 80% of the thinking has already been done as a result of this reference architecture or this reference model. This is the business of government. So what you see here are some verticals and horizontals. You see the horizontals are the common capabilities and the verticals are business functions of the government. Obviously given the limitation of time I'm just showing you at one layer you can go down to the next layer and we have actually gone down to level three and identified the actual sub functions that the state governments can now take and define and use it to define their own business architecture which is an instantiation of this reference architecture. All right and very importantly as I said so that's the SDG here sustainable development goal. We use a interlink approach and one thing that we have done as part of the business reference model is identified common service building blocks. Now the interesting thing is while this is relevant for India I think most governments in the world that's what they do, right?  Fundamentally that's what administration is all about. Doesn't matter which country you come from. Okay so these are reusable building blocks which is part of the business reference model now the state governments take it and say okay I have a land registration service so I need one four and eight put it together you have the full service. So these are business components which can be exposed and the API which I'm talking about later on. Okay so you have identified 24 building blocks so to speak and that's how it looks from a business perspective. So this is the relationship. Okay so the business reference model defines the vision goals and objective identifies programs schemes and projects you know fulfilling that goals it identifies and rationalizes these services that provides the goals and objectives for the KPIs see the key performance indicators the you know service level agreements measures and analyzes the performance and gives feedback to the business. So you see how the loop is working between two reference models from business to performance and performance to business. It's a closed loop. Okay so this is the data reference model it talks about few things number one is describing the data there's a common standard for describing the data Aadhar is a great UID is a great example it contains all the demographic data for all the 101.25 billion people. Right then you have the data context as to who owns the data what can you do with the data all of that stuff and finally how the sharing is going to take place. What is the payload that's going to be what's the protocol that's going to be used in terms of achieving data interoperability. That's what the data reference model talks about it doesn't talk about specific database technologies that you should be using because that's not what a reference architecture should be doing. Then we have the application reference model which identifies core applications common applications group applications and departmental applications. Core applications are core across the entire nation. Common applications are applications that could be used by multiple departments it's available if it suits your requirement use it. Right group applications are again common applications but specific to a cluster of organized so for instance there could be certain group applications for the transportation cluster group applications for the banking cluster group applications for the healthcare cluster. Right and then you have department specific applications because you have a specific unique need that is not fulfilled by any of the other three and therefore you build your application and you can see it's it's deliberately at the bottom. So your first port of call is not to build your own application see if there's something available that can be reused. Okay and then do a elimination and then figure out if there's something very specific or very unique you need therefore you build your own departmental application. We have the technical reference model well focuses more on the technical standards this is something that we all understand quite well because a lot of this is commoditized so the whole idea is to adopt as much standards as possible so that it's easier for the government to look at certain economies of scale benefits. Integration is the other dimension it looks at integrating all of the other reference models. Now one of the key aspects I think we all understand the need for integration at the business process data application and the infrastructure level one of the key aspects that the reference architecture is trying to achieve is legal integration. You know you need the ministries to come to some kind of agreement before there is a data interoperability for instance to happen. It is not a technical issue right. Ministries don't want to share data I think you know the question had come up in the previous session also why do people want to hold on to data. When we're talking of people you're talking of government ministries even amongst ministries or departments there is no exchange of data unless it is supported by some kind of a legal framework and that's what you know it has been highlighted there you know legal integration is as important. Then we have the security reference model okay it identifies the security standards that are used across different layers for the different layers which I've I've already covered earlier data layer application layer perimeter network and endpoint layer. Come up with control policies and you know control objectives and the specific controls that are required to realize those security objectives. All right. Last one is the governance reference model. What I'd like to highlight here is in the reference architecture the committee had identified that we need to you know separate and differentiate between architecture itself and the implementation because if the architecture and implementation you know come into one team the you know the architects typically take a backseat because again everybody is thinking about implementation and you get kind of you know you really don't have the architecture thinking in the mind and that's the reason why we've why the reference architecture identifies architecture governance board as a specific board focusing on the architecture aspects of the journey. Once those things are dealt with you go to the actual implementation. Okay so in a nutshell these are the eight reference models not spending too much time but I think you get a flavor of what the reference architecture talks about. How is it identified and built into the ADM? So what we have done here as you can see this is the ADM right and the key outputs from each of the phases. This has already been done which is what I kind of covered in the previous 20 slides. We have a whole of government reference architecture. Now what we expect is the state governments to do the second cycle. So you take the inputs from the reference architecture and instantiate that in building your own departmental, ministerial or state architecture. Again, TOGAP based. Right so the doc as I said the documents are public so if you go into the documents you'll see how we have identified each step of TOGAP and linked it and mapped it onto the reference models that I just walked you through. Third layer is to build a solution to realize the statewide enterprise architecture again that is based on TOGAP ADM. So you can see the three-layered approach to take care of the multiple levels of government that large countries have. Okay, I think I'll skip this part. So this is important. So what I was alluding to earlier the state government that I highlighted was the initial architecture implementation and then from there on you develop the reference architecture because now you have a success story, now you have buy-in from the senior leadership of the government, the executive arm of the government and therefore the reference models come in and this is exactly the, you know, the journey that we took. All right? Okay, skip this part. This is what we are trying to achieve in a nutshell through the reference architecture. You can see it does involve some level of organizational restructuring. Okay, so the departments don't go away anywhere, it's just that it's overlaid into a whole of government enterprise architecture which the reference architecture is trying to address. Okay. Now, of course, as I said, I'll not walk you through the entire analysis, but there are certain things that we have done to take care of some of the, you know, the enablers and blocks for enterprise architecture. Okay, I'll just quickly lay out the interventions and then highlight some of the key ones. Okay, so the first one is digital leadership. For us, in the reference architecture, we have clearly identified you need to have an office of architecture with adequate authority. So that's one of the interventions that we have identified. Number two is to have good in consultative sessions with the industry vendors because they have to be part of the entire ecosystem. Right, that's important. So that's another thing. Third one is adoption of standards. Okay, I've already spoken about that. The other one is funding model. Right, it's important that when you come up with an enterprise architecture, you think about implementation and think how it is going to be funded. I think that was alluded to very aptly even in the previous section. It's important who gets the benefits and in the government it's very important. Okay, and obviously have advocacy sessions. In fact, one of the things that we are currently doing very closely is to do capacity building sessions with a lot of the state governments and the ministries. Okay, all right. So what does it provide? It provides line of sight. This is the kind of approach that we're taking all the way from vision to the business, to the technical architecture to portfolio management. Right, portfolio of projects to project-level activities. And many of the states what they are doing is that the project-level activities they're using DevOps, for instance. And that's perfectly fine, right? We don't advocate any specific methodology or approach. If DevOps works for you, it's, you know, well and good. As I said, one of the key things about data in the government is data protection. I think all of you would agree to that. So there is a data protection framework currently being designed, so to speak. So this is work in progress. It talks about use of data. It talks about individual rights. It talks about consent. It talks about data quality which comes through data standards. It talks about laws and regulations, adjudication, enforcement, and even cross-border flow of data, right? So India, so for instance, many countries do that, right? If data, citizen data cannot flow outside the country. So that's some of the things that is being handled in the GDPR that India is currently in the process of designing. Okay, adoption. I'd like to highlight this. Number one, we made it into a national standard, right? So currently it's a national standard. So now it becomes a mandatory kind of document for everybody. I spoke about advisory and sensitization workshops. Yes, absolutely. We continue to have these workshops. There's a maturity framework which gives an evaluation mechanism to figure out where the ministries and states are. Case studies, field experiences. We're going to, as Steve was mentioning earlier, we're going to have a conference in Bangalore next month and many of these case studies are going to be presented. So these case studies are use of this reference architecture in a ministry or a state, as an example, right? Capacity building and academic initiatives, absolutely. One of the things that we are targeting very closely in India is that to get business schools to incorporate enterprise architecture as a core subject. Because we, most of us have become enterprise architects by self-learning, right? Not through a formal school. I think most of us are probably in that board. But we would like to change that because otherwise it's not going to be an institutional practice. Of course, leading to TOGAP certification. And then within the open group, we are setting up a government EA work group. In fact, we have a meeting on Thursday to identify how some of these reference architectures can be generalized and available to even other countries. Okay, that's important. So these are some of the things that we're doing in terms of driving adoption. Okay, some of the adoption scenarios I'll not go through that. This is how things are being used. And as I said, some of the case studies are going to be presented at our Bangalore conference. This is the maturity model. I'll skip that part. Final thoughts. I think I'll need to highlight this aspect of it. Citizens. We use citizens to discover services. We use citizens as a solution provider to identify solutions to your own problems. We use citizens to adopt, right? And an experimentation phase as an ambassador and also as a beneficiary of the services and benefits. So the entire lifecycle of citizen participation is actually involved and integrated into the reference architecture. Something that we always forget. People are an important part when you're dealing with government and public services. Okay, with that, I'll finish my presentation. I'd definitely like to acknowledge the ministry and members of the National Enterprise Architecture Working Group. Thank you very much. Okay, hello. Do you have a seat? We are running short on time, so I'm gonna consolidate a few of the questions. There's some common theme. How does the Indian government treat the test, the validity of the reference architecture, and how do you ensure the reference evolves? Yeah, so as I said, once the reference architecture has been put in place and it has become a national standard, there are state governments that we are talking to, there are ministries that we are talking to who are adopting this reference architecture. So that's the validation mechanism. So it's not a desk validation, it's a validation on the field itself. And as I said, this is work in progress, so maybe in a year's time we'll have more results in terms of how it worked out. Right, so several questions around the theme of, this is obviously for India. To what extent is this applicable or modifiable for other countries? Yes, so one of the reasons, one of the motivations for us to establish the government enterprise architecture work group within the architecture and architect, Archimate Forum, is to figure out how this can be extended, adapted to suit other countries. And we expect some output and some deliverables from that work group, which could be more generic. So yes, there are learnings from other countries too, but we would like to bring it together into a more generic form. Quick one, how, did the EA principles for the India project get published publicly? Yes, absolutely, these are all public documents, yes. Does your reference architecture include any smart city pilots or implementations? Yes, there are a couple of cities which are looking at using enterprise architecture to build their smart cities, Pune being one of those. Pune is a city which is about 100 miles from Mumbai. It's a tier two city and the motivation there was and the rationale was let's not go into the big cities because it gets too complex. Let's start with a tier two city and have a success story and then kind of extend that. Okay, and we must allow people enough time for lunch. So I'll just have this one going, which seemed like a nice little segue into lunch, if I, yes, it's around, it was around the definition of a digital server. So is a transaction codified via a blockchain when the exchange of value is, say, buying an insurance policy with salmon? Is that a digital transaction? It would be considered a digital transaction, yes. In the definition, yes, absolutely. Okay, so there are other questions. People, Palav will be around. Those who ask questions I didn't get to, please feel free to grab him and stop him from eating lunch. And that's it for now, Palav. Thank you. Just a couple of announcements before you.