great there's rules that is actually before my time that is a winner though better than nothing i'll be the bedroom window then yeah that was a pretty great episode yeah it was really nice i really like that um knew exactly what its goal was and achieved it yeah seems like it did well it's just a great example of like how to tell a very complete story in a single episode of television to tell a complete story with a theme that was set up and paid off and reinforced and ties into the broader theme of the uh what well presumably will be the broader theme of the show if the game is any indication yeah and it's just they chose a really good character from the game to use for this story because they managed to get to keep a lot of his elements obviously stripped away a couple but uh and he doesn't get to interact with the role that he plays in the story is different very different from the role that he played in the right in the game in the game it was much more of an active role in the main plot whereas here it's much more of a thematic role yeah what he passes on in terms of support and help to Joel is much more um it's done in the form of that that message right like i feel like planting the seed for a later character choice and i imagine that those will be consistently reinforced with i mean with like when he's with tommy henry and sam i imagine that all of those stories will sort of uh be you know building up that core motivation Joel's gonna feel like he failed with test to some degree now and it's like ellie is his uh second go around but in the same way obviously the well right kind of well those are like that's what it all comes down to he's supposed to protect these people and uh if they die that means he's fucked up failed yeah they didn't have him uh cry after reading if you can tell he's um he's struggling pretty upset yeah especially because he probably fucking liked frank and bill um after knowing for that long like like when he's just like they're dead and he's just sort of staring having to deal with this everyone keeps fucking dying i think in the games he did serve a thematic purpose there as well they it's the theme is different obviously he served the obvious function of like providing the car battery and also having like the school set piece and the the bloater boss fight but uh he also represented to joel on his journey what you can turn into if you wall yourself off completely once upon a time i had somebody that i cared about the partner somebody i had to look after and in this world that sort of shit's good for one thing getting you killed so you know what it did why isn't the fuck up and i realized it's got to be just me yeah i don't mean to uh certainly don't mean to downplay the uh the role that he played i guess it's more so that in this one when you strip so much of that away it just lays bare like that this case is very much a uh thematic sort of story because it doesn't tie directly into helping joel and ellie on their quest really at all whereas in the game it was kind of yeah it was doing two things at once it had the plot stuff but then it also had this is bill this is these are his outcomes and joel has to sort of consider those outcomes and maybe think about whether he wants you know what he could do to avoid the situation that bill finds himself in totally alone better miserable yeah and super secure but like just is that worth it when you've got existing right he's existing whereas what we saw here was bill was existing and then he was living and he got a lot out of that relationship and the ending of course as well because in the game frank disappears and he finds out what actually happened to him and it's like that's something that he has to deal with whereas here it's a very different story in that regard but there's obviously inspiration they've taken elements move things around yeah well i've read something pretty new um with this story but at the same time you can see how they got it from the game and i was i was pretty impressed with uh the work that they did for those two characters considering that it was just one episode i feel like you get to see that whole relationship sort of play out even though you're only really seeing flash points of like big significant moments it feels like a relationship that lasted 16 years there by the end like that felt like a relationship that had matured and sort of endured for for many many years yeah it's very believable um it's it's very very easy to buy joy because obviously we can tell all kinds of different stories could have gone hideously wrong right and that frank was just an asshole and took everything from him or killed him or whatever but it's just a genuine sort of anti-social closed off man who thought the whole world may end and hates the government is thriving in this environment almost but he doesn't have everything yeah right yeah and then this one person comes into his life and and totally and completely enriches it well and they have that scene right this guy this guy is bill might even describe this guy as useless as in like his talents uh are almost in the aesthetic and uh he cares about him he's aware of music but like what is what is his pragmatic use of this environment this like we didn't see a huge amount of it to the point where uh bill says immediately when he thinks he's dying you got to get joel because joel can take care of you you know like because without you like me to look after you how long will you really last because obviously he was dying when he found him but he values him more than anything well yeah because we saw that even in him allowing it's like you know he was trying to min max right bill's like well yeah but you know this doesn't serve any clear utility so why would we do this whereas you know frank is more like well it's uh you know in terms of rejuvenating the house and everything it's like what is the utility it's like i guess there's no strict utility but it makes you happier so you know like it might as well right it's kind of like that's what the two complement each other very well well they created a little paradise for themselves in hell yeah yes and uh i like that about it i really like that relationship yeah and you that kind is summed up by like the last shot where you it like tracks into the bedroom and then you focus racked from the outside to the inside in the little perfect home that they built for themselves and it represents like a life lived loved and lost yeah they have a clear exact pattern as well that goes into the right the distance i can imagine people being disappointed who are fans of the games who wanted the punished bill phase where like he's still alive when joel and ellie come around yeah like if it what if it wasn't for the line where he put the pills in the bottle enough to kill a horse it's like that's them the audience like the writers telling the audience like oh he's dead after this okay if it wasn't for that i was i was kind of half expecting bill to like show up at the very end and be like the hell are you doing in my house you know like and then the next episode would be like the adventures with what you get to see him crazy like unhinged and what this losing frank has done to him like he's driven him a bit you could tell that story i i think you could i guess by the time it was him like frank old and sick there was a thought in the back of my head of you know you could deviate from the games here like you could you could do something different and and i was sort of the longer time went on the more i was thinking i think you are i think you're about to deviate here and i think that it is a choice that's totally legitimate yeah i i think it works this is a different thematic route of because the key that makes this work i think is like you pointed out molly the line in the the letter i saved someone who is worth saving right yeah and then that and of course the subtext is that frank saved him as well you know like yeah he saved some of these lines which is exactly joel and ellie is what's going to pretty much yeah that through saving ellie joel basically sort of rediscovered this ability to care for others and something that he lost you know somewhere along the way right yeah it's a it's a funny thing right but frank reaching out and talking to tess is incredibly risky you know it leads to them having that relationship they exchange supplies back and forth and then for the point where if bill thinks he's going to die he has someone that he can you know get frank to sort of thing which and he has someone who cares about yet he leaves joel and tess uh all of his stuff it's like it was worthwhile but he's just he's just that careful that uh secluded almost even though you're getting lots of evidence that you don't have to be yeah and it makes sense that he decided to go with him you know because it's like what am i sticking around for after this like if you're gone i know there's nothing like i know what's waiting for me after this and there's just days and days going back to his old life and then yeah i want to um and it's made me think like well in the game he stuck around but then i remember in the game he doesn't know he frank died until he finds him yeah no because he was bitter about it he thought frank abandoned them right yeah they find him dead yeah which again i feel like you can't have that one in this when you've built it this way you wouldn't frank wouldn't abandon bill with the way that we are like i was saying before i remember in the games being really interested in this relationship and wanting to know more and so the show decided to do that with its unique format which i think is a good idea and if you're going to do that then this is the route that makes sense is to just let let that let let that life play out and then it makes sense for um it wouldn't make sense if you were to just stick around i don't think i like the story in and of itself and then i just like how much it what it has to say about what i assume will be the season overall but certainly joel and ellie and joel and dara and joel and tess is the reality of i quite like the bill sees a lot of himself in joel which is a both a good thing and bad thing yes yeah because i don't think in any of that montage we saw what he does for fun we just saw all of the pragmatic stuff which i think is kind of the point this is fun uh for him but as soon as it runs out then what meanwhile when you have someone you know every single day is a new experience the discussion i've seen around this episode is the for one boring as a criticism yeah i guess i'm not surprised that people call it boring but it's not but i don't find it boring i didn't think it was boring at all i wanted to see uh wanted to see what was uh what was gonna happen and uh it seems deliberate and purposeful and i'm really glad that we got to see an episode where you're kind of reminded those things do still get made actually i think it's neat to just have our main characters be guest characters in this episode i quite like the scenes with joel and bill and maybe there is a sense in my head it's like it would have been cool to have had more for a maybe punished bill with with joel and ellie all the dialogue you get with that is now not possible who the fuck is this punk and what's she doing here i am none of your goddamn business and we're here because you owe joel some favors and you can start by taking these off i owe joel some favors or some kind of joke yes sure joel go ahead take my cards take all my food too while you're at it by the looks of it you could lose some of that food listen to me you little shit no fuck you you hank hey what i said to you we walked down a steps what i say i'm just fixing your stupid pile don't touch but i suppose that is a different story that can be told there are so many that can be told so many lines that could have come out any different directions you can take i just uh i think sometimes people will just assume the alternative would have been way better instead of sort of appreciating this for what it is and what they did there's pros to both methods i remember in the game i really like the last exchange with bill it's like we square we're square and get the fuck out of my town and then that's the end and joel's just like nods he understands because there's like shit between them from the past and but it's like whatever water under the bridge and then they'll never see each other again after that i like the bitter sweet but this it works the human drama was really well executed it's a good little story really well acted yeah i thought the acting was terrific the guy ron swanson parks and wreck guy his performance was great and it was fantastic to me yeah craig mason has figured out the secret of casting comedians for a shit like this funny guys they just understand the role they understand grief like a familiarity with grief could be that a lot of jokes are drawn from pointing out just things that suck about life but in a format that we can all sort of just laugh at it instead of be depressed or anything yeah that's what i mean there's sort of a foundation of pain when you get like a belly laugh off a really funny joke not all the time but i find the best comedians you know like richard prior would joke about his personal life and go into really dark shit and he would extract like that like the comedy can speak to the core of the human experience and that includes tragedy and sadness the lake in order to be great familiarity and understanding of that seems like almost a prerequisite and maybe that's just you can translate that to a dramatic performance in a way that is almost surprisingly adept because people sometimes don't think of comedy as like deeply tragic right yeah and so i think good comedians they are aware of that but they don't really have an opportunity to utilize it on the stage because you don't want to make people sad but then when it comes time to act out a sad scene in a show like this it's very easy for them to channel into that and finally utilize it and to explain why don't say well absolutely yeah well even like as well it just it feels a little bit more vibrant than your average um storytelling as well just for example are you armed and then a gap of about four seconds or whatever it goes no it just goes why'd you take so long to say no like it just feels like something normal you would probably point out and then of course him moving into like well because i don't know it felt like something maybe i should lie about but i don't know why i thought that i don't know it's like yeah it's incredibly high stress situation he thinks he's gonna be dead anyway i don't know there's just a lot of real stuff in this that keeps me bound to it i quite like it all seems genuine it's well written yeah and their relationship felt genuine it didn't feel like it was pandering at all like it was all really like i bought it yeah acting was superb it was yeah i bought um all of it 100% everyone did a great job like as much as all of that is true unfortunately i feel like this is a because i've already seen pieces of it but you already know people are gonna take issue with this because of the fact that it's a gay couple for a whole episode if that's something you're gonna get in the way of you appreciating some great storytelling i don't know like doesn't like i don't know it just feels like a neat idea that you have a guy who is looking for companionship but has created all of the walls around him to essentially prevent all of that like yeah it feels interesting as well considering that again the apocalypse here began in 2003 and they would have met and almost you know it's kind of like the world hits pause right wherever it was at because you see that a lot right cars are all early 2000s yeah that mortal combat too i mean mortal combat was obviously in the 90s but you know like references and media and stuff kind of comes to an end there but i mean even then right the context of their relationship in 2003 it's like well yeah i mean they wanted a lot of like it feels you know the fact that they get married at the end right it's like well you're in a world where like whatever rules previously existed about saying whether or not you're allowed to do that doesn't exist anymore it just makes me wonder if that's something that kind of is like an element that can be leveraged is knowing sort of when the world hit pause for them and like how much that might have influenced sort of bills you know closed off nature like that at that time it might not have been as easy for him to sort of find love yeah it's just a thought i'm having given given that it would have been you know 2006-07 when they met and um i had to wait until the after the fungal zombie apocalypse to be able to get married to be able to live yeah to be able to live like honestly and fully right it's kind of something to think about i just go as far as saying there's no reason to desperately make the game and the show fight on this one like i don't yeah they're just so distinctly just two different concepts that are played out um and they both are done really well it's um it it feels to me like what they are doing and i imagine it will continue as the show goes on is there were moments in the game that didn't get a whole lot of time that can get more time because of the format that they have yeah it's a show you don't have gameplay to sort of get in the way of that well i don't want to say it like getting because it almost feels like what they said about halo right like i don't want to video games it's not that there's limitations it's that there's different challenges that you have to deal with when telling a story when you're making a video game where the predominant you know thing that you do in gameplay is combat it's just something you have to think about when you're like writing that story is we need this to lead into combat and we need this to be something that can organically emerge out of like a combat section or you know exploration right the balancing act there's not really a lot of time in the last of us to do a story like in the game to do that story that we just saw there it just seems like it wouldn't quite fit it would probably be a section that would be not very fun to play because it wouldn't be a whole lot of like engaging mechanics to grapple with and so it's like a story that can be told in this medium and it's like yeah that that's cool that you can tell that story and you can still essentially have it lead into where the game was anyway of joel and ellie go there they get the car and then they move on it's just that the way that bill you know interacts with them or like feeds into their story it's just different now because it's you know it's it's adaptation right this is an interesting adaptation in that it feels like they're very thoughtfully deviated from the source material rather than looking at what the source material wasn't going yeah i mean that was all right for like the dumb shooting game but like we're like yeah television writers we're gonna like we're gonna go for a real amazing story here with halo the television yeah it doesn't take with the games we're in shit all over it it doesn't exist in spite of the games absolutely it's like it's an extension of them it's an alternate telling of the games and i feel like it's reflected in a lot of the choices that like the fact that they brought the original composer along right like the fact that they brought him along to create the music for the show it just feels like it's still like the last of us it still feels like it's part of this uh i say franchise right that includes one game that i don't like at all they're like it's you know it feels like a um appropriate adjacent story in a sense to what was there in the game it has nods to the game it doesn't say anything that's like uh games aren't those dumb or we we've we've matured past that or we're a higher form of storytelling i mean just the fact that um like in this i used to you mentioned that the car was the same kind of car and like well that means you have to they had to put work and effort into finding exactly the right making sure it's the right color you know joel's got the green plaid shirt ellie's got like the red shirt with the um like gray brown undershirt there's a lot of instances where it seems like they're they're like we know what the games look like i'm gonna find ways to try and parallel like even the window right it kind of looks like the window on the menu screen not peeled up and with like you know green overcoming every single thing but it's it's kind of like similar framing that's like a happy version of that it's a happy window bitter sweet yeah a bit of sweet yeah yeah because it was a life well lived as far as they were concerned oh yeah absolutely um it is i don't know it's nice to see that the people who made this show like the writers clearly like got together and they didn't just come up with shit and throw it at that the screen and then hope that the big budget or the love of the game would carry him through seems like they really uh do want to do some stuff here they really want to write some characters and sequences and yeah i appreciate that immensely well what do you think about the idea that people don't like this because it is filler i think that only comes from a mindset who think that the only thing that can be worthwhile to watch is a progression of plot as it relates to a specific element of what they want to see because this was essentially a story that had a beginning a middle and an end that is going to assist other characters and fulfilling their own plot lines and at that point if you don't like that then my question is why are you watching what is actually the purpose is a is the progression of a plot not the means to an end to communicate what characters are like and how they behave moral lessons and themes is it all just are you are you so plot focused you forget kind of that plot can be a vehicle to explore other things that are arguably more like meaningful and emotional seems like they might be sort of losing the force for the trees here there's a lot i think to gain even with the nuts and bolts like oh did we get plot progression as i well they made it to build we got a history with who bill is and what he means to joel and tess and then they got a bunch of resources and we've developed a little bit more of a alien joel's relationship any set ground rules now for how they're going to do things going forward they have a car they have extra supplies they're moving on and you can be like oh yeah but that's not worth an hour and 15 minutes and i'd be like oh well that's i'm just saying that it's not filler if you go from the previous episode to the next episode you will have missed out a huge chunk of what happened how the fuck do they have a car we're in of course the payoff of you know ellie's gun where the hell did she get that yeah like we done setups and there's yeah there's stuff going on with joel and ellie here yeah but as you just put it i i feel like it's impossible to argue in case that there was a full story in this one episode i don't sure how filler is even identified anymore but then you have to get into the reality of like is filler always bad yep i mean remember by that logic a lot of like virtually all of like star trek and all sorts of other shows were filler there wasn't an overarching plot there was it's a journey not its destination there were plenty of episodes of a lot of television that is just um maybe house isn't a great example for the season premiere season finale of house that's like where a lot of the story for the season you could say like the big stuff happens right supernatural season one i'm pretty sure you can watch episode like one fifteen and twenty four or something and you've got a story of the season a lot of television was um a lot of tv shows weren't very serialized at all that'd be like a very loose ongoing story but otherwise it was just yeah it might pop up here yeah it's just recurring characters maybe well they're trying to get a formula that people enjoy watching and can watch out of order that's what the world was back in the day when you caught things yeah the episode on tv was the episode on tv so that's the one you're watching so that's it's a format that's still reflected in you know like those types of shows now like ncis right probably still has that same format but then you got you know now we're in the era of streaming and the era of streaming seems to have really brought to the forefront stuff that used to just exclusively be like hbo shows yeah really long movies essentially if what they mean is it's like empty calories and they're not getting anything out of it that would be i think your mistaken calling it filler at that point because that could still be valid it's just that also in this episode empty calories nah obviously but at least analogy is odd as if you don't you can't enjoy and cherish and savor things if they don't have calories in them yeah what did we learn this episode if not that that's not the way that it should be it was that was what frank was trying to tell penteach phil i think one of the mistakes being made in regard to the filler topic is that if joel and ellie aren't in the scene it's filler yeah yeah it has to be specifically hyper focused on these two characters right now and if they're yeah if they're not included i got more joel and ellie than i was expecting from how many people i wasn't expecting as much joel and ellie yeah a decent chunk of them at the end and i mean honestly one of my favorite moments is joel realizing the bill basically said make sure to look after tass yep that sucks for him even if the letter wasn't there and they like they just went to the house and said oh there's a truck cool like if they just found the keys and then they just left it would be weaker storytelling but i would still consider that bill's story being told in this universe worthwhile like i think it was worth the investment of time i think it's gonna match the whole life play out this ip is trying to make right it's like the last of us like all people yeah exactly what they've lost what they've lived what they've won the last of what remains of them as people right the last of uh the last like a more literal the the few numbers that remain of human beings but also what remains of their humanity yes that's right we're all upset well some of us are upset about the last of us too okay but like you're as good as the latest thing you've made right and neo druffman is it significantly involved in this everyone keeps talking about how it's going to go bad though it's like well should we call that out when it happens i guess what happens if it happens we'll call it out but until then i don't know man though three episodes in they've been pretty strong this is probably the best one in fact no i'd say this is the best one of the three um i would say so too yeah it's just i don't know man how many more good episodes do you have to get before you start to get on site a little bit you know i don't know how many bad ones does it take till everyone goes well i mean you know it can only guys also the dragon had a bad episode but that season was great it didn't have a bad episode and that's true now you know i take what you can get man because with this with this show so far so good is basically uh is basically where i'm at yeah and i'm i'll be happy to see another one you know keep going i'm still interested i don't know what happens next or rather i know what happens next but i'd be curious to see how you adapt it out plays out yeah yeah for as much as it's like yeah there's a great framework it's like well yeah but you still gotta have all of the talent you know directed in service of uh of leveraging it and utilizing it and so far yeah it's been like acting's been great the music's been great the production design has been phenomenal like this show is so god damn tangible and the world is so lived in oh yeah very believable you don't you don't doubt for a second that this is a real place with real people it's almost distracting with how not distracting it is if that makes sense yeah i i totally got what you made yeah well it's authentic i remember reading a bit about the the production design approach kreg was saying he has a rule with his sets is that you set it up destroy it and then set it up again make it look like an apocalypse happened and then you kind of maybe over design it a little bit maybe as opposed to like actually having a real set and then like destroying it in a realistic way and then decorating it with like foliage and like fungal growth or whatever and you have all sorts of places that are just run down and derelict anyway there's all sorts of places that are just out there that have been abandoned and they've fallen apart naturally yeah i think this has done a good job as well just with their tests and this almost message from bill that will be getting all the motivation we need to make joel do some crazy shit in favor valley yeah um specifically when we get to the cannibals plot line you know because i think one of the lines from bill is like god help any motherfucker that stands in our way when we have someone to protect yeah yeah that's the thing for me i'll be like i'm looking forward to see how all this will pay off i wonder how well they'll do it um i think that was a really solid episode i give it a big old thumb up the bum i do give it a thumb up the bum i would even say two thumbs up the bum why not yeah maybe even different bums i don't know fair mental all right well thanks for listening everybody well yeah we'll see you for the next one that's why you later everybody the fence the fence will kill the rest of what'd you bring me we're doing a little intro first i mean i always have to be the one that says hello to everybody so i feel like one of you guys should do it this time welcome to the efap show everybody whoa thanks so much rags smaller fringy i'm joined by my guests yeah we've all been doing for so long in life and yet they keep making more of it they haven't stopped do make it before they're born and they're like yeah we're gonna try this again it's like really spending all those years building up a catalog of things for you to watch when you would eventually exist oh i thought it was more so like they just keep putting out new ones and they're like this time this one's about people going through struggles it's like uh-huh yeah it's like no no no this one's different it's zombies you're like oh okay wow okay but let me guess the people are the real monsters oh i saw a discussion about that um because i've seen there have been takes on uh on episodes already episode uh three it was reviewed by Ben Shapiro and people were like i don't think he realizes the last of us refers to and then they explain a bunch of things and other people were like yeah that's the same as the people realizing the walking dead was referring to the humans not the actual zombies and everyone was like coming over themselves about how much they'd interpreted it and i was sitting there like i thought that stuff was obvious but all right yeah it's fine yeah i like the title the last of us specifically because i was like oh that's kind of neat it's like doubles up it's like not only talking about the last of humans but the last of the humanity they have we've talked about this a couple times and it's gonna be relevant in this show as it goes forward i'd imagine but my god everyone likes to use anything they can to assert how much more intelligently are than the next person huh i understood it i bet you haven't even read the book understanding themes by dr ergen foud she's like i haven't she's in vegan i felt like the zombie kills eventually got in the way of the walking dead you know where it's like every episode needs an obligatory killing of at least one zombie where it's not he doesn't really have like a narrative purpose in that episode it's just like they require some ticking boxes i think i think that was like actually yeah a requirement for that show it might have been one of all people by not having zombie encounters would you yeah and maybe they were right because that show ended up being like the biggest show in the world for a time you know it did yeah it's a good point maybe there's something to that for sure yeah well in terms of getting people to watch it i guess in terms of artistic integrity you should let people do it and you guys know about big brother right that show yeah i've heard of it did you know they made a special where i think it was a couple of episodes it ran in like i want to say like 2006 i mean fucking ages ago but it was uh a zombie special and it was like a movie or rather a tv show in terms of the quality i think that they did and the idea was it was like fiction it wasn't like reality show or anything where they run a big brother episode and like i think i mean a week into it or something a zombie infection hits the uk and so everyone in the house doesn't know that's happening and then i think they even had to present to who at the time was devina mccall like she's like terrified running in there and i think she's been bitten or something like that and i just remember thinking like that could be fun couldn't it like i mean like you know like love island or i'm a celebrity get me out of here you have that sort of shit happening but then also a zombie apocalypse in the outside world and so they actually have to go from doing these like silly survival things or it's like oh how many bananas can you get you know if you get more points better feast for you and your blah blah blah it's like it actually becomes a survival circumstance and yeah it might be potential there well if it was just like a zombie reality show the reactions wouldn't be as fun or genuine but if like you have something like big brother that's supposed to have nothing to do with zombies and then you introduce a zombie element like that like everyone is like what what's going on you almost want to it would be too unethical and iris factor but if you actually had a normal big brother episode everything's filming and then you high makeup put in an actor into the room that's pretending to be a zombie and just like slowly walking towards me you have some guy like maybe one of them is in on it and he walks up to me like it's just a fucking actor and then the guy like goes this is like you know they have blood packs and he's like oh run but then you know if you have just one guy who's like it's a fucking i'm gonna kill the zombie and he starts hitting and you're like no no no i have an actor yeah not long ago there was a story about a bank high era a casino heist you know that took place during a zombie apocalypse and that's that's really interesting oh that sounds like a great premise did you just come up with that because i don't think i don't think i would have heard about it because that sounds so good i was just thinking like wouldn't it be cool to have like a totally played straight casino heist movie and then like a third or halfway through it it's just boom a zombie apocalypse just breaks out like wouldn't that be cool to see like a similar ish idea i don't think the director would waste an idea like that yeah if you have that idea and you you know get the funding and the actors and you know the production team to make a movie like like that surely you wouldn't waste that opportunity and ruin that idea for years to come for everyone else nobody would do that right no one would do that that's that'll be done soon probably i don't need an idea any day now anyway the last of us tv show we've done one two three out of one two three four five six seven eight nine so you could say we've done the foundational part of this show we're now moving into developmental i made that up but that could be how it works i don't know we'll find out maybe one two three is groundwork two three two two words numbers that's the one i was looking for four five six feels like those are those three episodes where the groundwork right the backstory then sort of the status quo in this world and then yeah premise explain characters inside the incident and the thrust for joel to go on this adventure and then more material to further inform like thematic material that's going to be relevant throughout the season and now it's like this is the adventure the adventure has begun basically i have been on record on open bar saying that i am actually relatively critical right now of joel and ellie i think that they've not quite done enough yet but that could be made up for in this episode i've heard they have some stuff to do so i'm excited to see what that may be they got a working vehicle they drove off when we last saw them anything could happen though well it's two of them now that's the main thing there's no test there's no bill it's it's just the two of them so it kind of forced those characters to interact it's a joel can't just use tests as a means of keeping distance between himself and ellie who dad you guys ready that yeah whoa whoa number one in the will we get an opening scene ooh no no teaser this time i guess they may be done with those then that's that's a shame i was liking them yeah yeah i like the idea yet yeah it opens up with the before the event happens or if you sprinkle in how the outbreak happened like all over the world like a similar scene to the first episodes but maybe a shorter one and it takes place in Bangladesh or well and a government pov like in america right oh yeah like a soldier's pov that would be cool yeah a guy who's called up to be like yo you gotta shoot these people and he's like sure thing and i see i wouldn't be able to resist following the life of a normal soldier the normal day and then he gets given orders that are kind of insane sounding and then he meets some zombies and imagine a whole episode of that and you know how it ends he walks up to shoots a zombie sees two people like oh it's joel in a hey it would be cool if we made the guy a whole ass character okay and then yeah and then it turns out he's really shitting things right in front of well see i was actually gonna say maybe we could go as far as giving reason for why he just maybe he's been through three experiences in that day alone of people he tried to trust and were bitten and everything went wrong you know no don't play with guns young lady one of the chamber look right yay they did it they did it yeah i was wondering if they were actually gonna remember that was that from the game or something i can't remember oh no it's just a lot of films and tv shows don't remember that likes you oh right well you say there's like it's just from life is that we cover so much media where this is the complaint guns are often not um guns they always forget about the chamber around right yeah yeah and i think that you can click at multiple times without uh yeah and because you can't pull the trigger anymore the trigger's already been you know pulled it's you almost understand how this shit happens because so many people who portray guns in media have only got familiarity with guns through media yeah kind of which by the way uh you know hands up i don't i don't know anything near enough about guns but i would probably hope to hire someone who does you know the big pet peeve is when they call a magazine a clip it is pretty much every gun that isn't like a tv show now well here's the thing so many people do that in real life i can't even like fault it yeah it's like i they're wrong they'll always be wrong but if someone in the world does it i'm like yeah that's what people doing the people get it wrong in the real world we have to do this every hour gas breaks down over time this stuff's almost water back in the day we'd drive 10 12 hours on one tank they're addressing how gas breaks down over time too yep and he's saying that what we're siphoning will only work the last time good for you good for you show that's good that's a common complaint we have for shit in post apocalypse look at the technique he's got there as well where he doesn't have to you know cough up like otto top up all of the the petrol otto why don't you get some more gas here's the credit card and the mint for afterwards i shouldn't have eaten the mint first i should have used the mint first yeah how does that work it's a siphon it's when liquid travels against gravity because pressure you don't know i know it works you just said um it uses like pressure to kind of balance gravity that she says you don't know how it works like i don't know that sounds that is how it works yeah that sounds pretty unpointed yeah you literally essentially just like blow it out in a sense well i think she got the sense he was kind of reading off a page in a way where it's like that's something he remembered reading about it he doesn't actually understand the all right she got a physics at okay this is your fault then okay we need to lighten the mood ready it doesn't matter how much you push the envelope it'll still be stationary it doesn't matter how much you push the envelope it'll still be stationary what is that it's a joke book no pun intended volume two by will livingston let's keep going volume two look you get it too like t o o jesus what did the mermaid wear to her math class what an algebra what is the mermaid wear to her math class nothing because she's a slut an algae brah ha ha i stayed up all night wondering where the sun went and then it dawned on me feel free waiting the truck okay but just know you can't escape will livingston the conflict for him right now at least it comes across this way to me is that you will do everything to protect it but doesn't want to get close to her at all yeah that seems like what's happening and that's another good beat to add to that i think there's been some truck yeah they used to stick big ass plows on them and clear the roads for their tanks and such i want to see a tank you will you probably will here let's make you all nostalgic this is actually before my time oh they done this now okay they do it i thought they'd already sort of used their moment for this but there you go got something else oh my god they all doing that joke right on the reading but it has some interesting pictures no no no put that back that's not for kid right on the reading but it's got some interesting photos ellie that ain't for kids whoa the hell would even walk around with that thing get rid of that hold your horses i want to see what all the fuss is about i don't even walk around with that thing please get rid of it hold your horses i want to see what all the fuss is about oh why are these all stuck together um why are all these pages stuck together uh i'm just fucking with you bye bye dude i'm just fucking with you bye bye dude you know i initially thought they would but uh in light of our episode three discussion i do agree that this doesn't feel quite appropriate now that he's gone and he's not quite the asshole that he was in the game i think it was it's still way better to put it in episode four than three right oh yeah i think they would have been divided in the tone oh yeah because this this is much chiller than episode three yeah yeah and she was i wasn't sure they were going to do that scene she was obviously joking there's not actual like right well i look a lot further away from boston now they look like they're in the uh the play no i meant sorry that that could have been from any point in bill's life what i mean oh sure sure and the game they go to pittsburgh now but i don't know if the show's treating it as the same spot they're skipping pittsburgh there uh i think they're going somewhere else yes it's an interesting thing this is the the adaptation of a game to tv show where do you squeeze and where do you extend yeah loves well it's big oh yellow signs of the hurricane uh are they gonna follow this reasonable sort of structure of the game where you got the summer section which is pretty long and then by autumn that's when they get to jackson so i'm still very much appreciative how much they've nailed the world in this oh yeah everything like looks look at this look at that and seamless as well like use of visual effects yeah that's enough for today the direction in cinematography of this show overall reminds me a lot of breaking bad you got a lot of like steady well composed shots really nice wide shots the use of cold opens sometimes like yeah and then they they take advantage of times of their very still cameras on moments that are very like atmospheric or even oppressive yeah i'm so glad they brought the composer from the games and let him do it for the show as well just makes you all the more baffled why they didn't do that with halo it's so hard not to compare this to halo it really is more iconic potentially i don't want to ravioli ravioli give me the curiosity it's just great that they didn't forget him they brought him that is 20 year old chef boy rd ravioli not good i actually agree get us to wyomin by next morning so can we start a fire i'm freezing now why am i going to tell you wow so they've they've traveled quite a distance then do the smoke no fungus isn't that smart i was actually about to say i doubt in fact it wouldn't understand smoke yeah the people will you people people so what are they gonna do rob us well they'll have way more in mind than that okay actually smells kind of good well that would be frank's then bill stinky i'm self a rifle i don't know i feel like if i was in there i wouldn't bring a bolt action rifle i'd bring something semi-automatic bolt action requires you to like do the whole like like reload thing instead of just doing pulling the trigger is there any reason to even pick a bolt action rifle over range right like no not okay i mean like the only time that like that might factor in if you were like an actual marksman sharp shooter but virtually all the time you're gonna be the limit of the gun's accuracy not the gun itself implies that's prone to jamming aren't they potentially but if the gun's well taken care of then i i definitely would uh some maybe he just wants to do some 360 nascar it's like very true lead ass kill cams yeah can i ask you a serious question yeah why did the scarecrow get an award why did the scarecrow get a promotion all right because he was outstanding in his field that'll do because he was outstanding in this field did you read this no look at that little sweet little smile i like that yeah this is how to do it you're doing the thing yeah good job i'm sleeping in the truck will you go do that right i like the outside maybe i will wow they planted a whole tree for this show there's a few of them there's no anyone knows we're here right no one's gonna find us no one's gonna find us oh that's just she's worried well it's just she hasn't had encounters with people who don't live in there the qz yeah she doesn't have bandit-y types i imagine she has yeah whereas he is very familiar he's been born he was one what's that light out there it's the moon it's it's very bright it's very localized it's like the aurora borealis aurora borealis this time i'm sorry even you were like i can't do it you gotta let the show be a show see like all that studio lighting you like you wouldn't you wouldn't see a fucking what do you think that's a consequence of i like that he's uh he ain't sleeping yeah he's that paranoid about protecting it right now poor guy probably didn't get that much sleep but he's not gonna anyone hurt you i love that they've actually like gone out and shot like on locations wilderness you don't like coffee the thing man everything's so uh just just gritty it's real it looks like it's there i could punch it in the face nothing looks like cgi nothing makes me think that it's cgi great production design smells like very shit but coffee does a thing that's used well it's our it'll be near a settlement probably close to another city out there ain't too many of them in wyoming schian schian why is it with you long story is it longer than 25 hours so he didn't listen to the army right out of high school being in the army it didn't make me feel much like a hero or outbreak happened so he convinces me to join a group in which i did mostly to keep an eye on them keep them alive it's where we meant test and tell me meets marlene it's kind of listening you know yeah uh yeah i just realized i'd said anything because i'm actually like i want to listen now she talks me to join in the fireflies the same mistake he made when he was 18 wants to save the world pipe dream i am fireflies all well and we just got a huge thing for joel just does not believe the world can be saved it's down to individuals now you haven't seen the world so you don't know keep going for family it's about it i'm not family no your cargo and i made a promise to tess oh there you go what you try to get right i'm even tired i want to grab more sleep i'm not even tired it's uh it's an old it's an old meme but it's a good meme i did like that beat in the game yeah i'm glad they kept that it's a good way to yeah get us to a new place oh i wonder are we going to do the the the encounter that they had in mind i'm really hoping they do i really like that encounter the guy pretending he's hot yeah and john john better we know where this goes so that's obviously laying groundwork for his decision relating to her the only thing to hang on to in this world is family as he just said perfectly normal characterization but it's going to have some consequences the further we go and yeah i just you know he is no less jaded than the joe in the game he's just not as he just doesn't seem as harsh yeah i'd say so he seems a little bit softer because that's the thing a lot of people say like he ain't the joe from the game and i'm like no i different that's fine he's a bit different but i mean he's got a lot of the same core motivations oh yeah and i'm curious how how they gonna get this man through a lot of the harsher scenes that joe has to go through in the game i wonder if they'll be changed or if we're gonna just see yeah like specifically what happens during the winter section when you're trying to save it from the uh account i don't see why this man couldn't still end up doing those things well i mean we saw an episode one right when he beat the soldier to a pulp well so what people said about that was that it wasn't as much of a cold decision that's pragmatic and useful done for a reason but it was an emotional one i'm curious if we're gonna get the um the payoff of him being like all right in order to get what i want and then points at a you know map there and you better be the same spot the big trick oh that it's yeah we can jog right around this tunnel take the next oh i feel they're doing it they're doing the yeah i think they'll uh i think it was a quote from neil drachman saying that um they're only gonna change things if they think they can come up with something that's better than what they believe is in the game right it looks like we might be heading for a one-to-one with a game well maybe right i could imagine that it won't be like remaining episode will be nothing but action there'll be conversations because the idea here of course is the it looked like he was thinking to himself when he saw that blockade like it was done with purpose specifically yeah in order to funnel people into the people yeah that's what happened in the game as well when they couldn't get through on the uh on the freeway and look at that little pile for all the people that may be coming through or it could just be for zombies who knows put your seatbelt up easy are we gonna help him put your seatbelt on ellie what about the guy he ain't even hurt are we gonna help him no beep belts folks that's what does it nothing yep maybe you should have just ran that guy over well it looked to me like he was trying to avoid giving him a clean shot oh yeah fair enough you see that hole you can squeeze through when i say go you crawl to that wall and you squeeze through and you don't come out until i say okay look at me they're not gonna hit you stay down you stay low you stay quiet you need to be topping that off feeling that one shot left in there are they gonna do the uh that pile off now this is irrelevant to the game it feels like we're setting up that she's gonna have to do something yeah i was wandering there with three guys i think yeah here we go it's okay it's over we're not fighting anymore i'm gonna go home i'll tell everyone you're good is it far if you can get me to her we can be friends i didn't know up right up right what's your name i don't expect you'll let this guy live nope i certainly wouldn't you made your bed yeah i believe you that was a great scene yeah that was a great scene and uh finally i can compliment bella ramsey's performance finally yeah she was she was great this episode i've been liking her a whole lot more i have to i feel like she's uh embodying much more of ellie like from the games the personality it's it's the fact that was missing i need more vulnerability from him we're getting it yeah the tearing up behind the walls really well done yeah yeah and just uh i really liked peter pascals stress in that fight when it started up i get the sense that it was yeah it was more so about her than it was about him but also just again we're doing the thing where like encounters with a handful of people are like too infected are really stressful yeah you get sensitive yeah like one you know one misstep and you know things could really go south oh exactly and just what it all means because he's familiar with all this but she's learning all of it that's right so yeah hearing a guy begging for his mom like this is what it means right to kill someone it's something he's talking about right you haven't seen the world yeah oh yeah you can feel sympathetic for these people and maybe they are good people but look what just happened like they were gonna kill us but nothing what else do you want me to say i don't know the truth henry borrell i wonder if they set up henry and sam yeah that would be next i wonder if this is the cell where my brother was beaten to death oh you were wronged this has gone too far now you mean now that you're in the cell but before people dying was okay ratting on your neighbors to fedra they put a gun to my head have i satisfied the necessary conditions for you to talk i delivered to you he's still in the city and i think that you know that too you think i won't do it i'm your doctor oh i don't know the full context of this was kind of interesting already that you say in the henry gave up the locations for her or at least information my brother now she's asking for information that would lead to the death of that guy sort of thing you know i mean like the whoever the doctor is he's uh being forced to do the thing that he would have been punished for doing if he had done it that's uh that's tommy's voice actor it's not a fedra vehicle but they were heavily supplied oh right could be merks there it is people back they didn't leave him behind that's cool he's got a look to him isn't he will he live he does have a look will he live i don't think so no why if i had a doctor no these are dead you need a witch doctor maybe yeah in the food a rice chicken chicken a rice a rice chicken a rice chicken a rice a rice a rice chicken a rice chicken looks like Joel stabbed that guy right in the heart yeah that's good in terms of just a smart move don't don't waste ammo you know yeah i was gonna point that out and i forgot like he was like you know here's my knife it's like thank you i will use this right now yeah rip that guy i guess see uh this is this is just how it goes right um you kill because these people are very clearly like they've got issues with fedra as well as henry and sam they've got like civil shit going on but they would have had setups or any potential threats coming in and they've they've hit the wrong people at the wrong time and now they've lost people and now they are angry at our people you know i mean like it all that's how it always unfolds and this is is way better already than anything you usually get and like like how people look at the last of us twos unraveling con unraveling of like that conflict between the abby team and the and the Joel team i think that's the biggest problem if only they knew they were making the last of us two when they were making the last of us one they could have made it much more coherent this show does have that benefit so i wonder if they'll change it a little bit maybe as soon as we don't hear a truck we move are you okay i'm all right are you all right yeah i think is as i didn't hear that guy coming you shouldn't have had to him but you're glad i did right you're just a kid it's not like you killed him yeah you're really hard i mean it was my fault you shouldn't have to and i'm sorry i probably speak so i can fucking help myself with copyright but like it's just really good yeah it is really good i'm just kind of focusing looking at the actors faces and you know what they say it's really impressive i was thinking that you know this before the show came out everyone was super worried but yeah i don't know man four episodes four for four i would say i don't see how they're gonna fuck this up the rest of the few minutes made like yeah and just the he's so sorry that that part of her innocence is gone now and now he's immediately teaching her how to actually it's almost maybe a recognition that well yeah she may well have to do this again yeah as much as it's true that it's reckless to provide someone a gun she just saved his life with one so now it's like he knows what he knows yeah he's very practical about it like that was the first thing he did when she did save him was take the gun off her yeah all right give me that you put it in your pack yeah i think this i think this beat is better done than in the games where ellie shoots the guy and saves joel and joel is like angry completely no gratitude for the fact that he's obviously just about to get killed and had ellie not done anything he absolutely would have died and you just hang back like i told you to well you're glad i didn't right i'm glad i didn't get my head blown off by god damn kid you know what no how about hey ellie i know it wasn't easy but it was either him or me thanks for saving my ass you got anything like that for me joel we gotta get going lead the way something on your mind ellie i wasn't trying to disobey you back there you were taking a really long time and i thought maybe he's gotten into trouble if you don't matter what you thought i need you to listen to me i do it's just that whatever joel someone would probably say in defense of that he's still desperately trying to remain distant and cold with her at that point in the game or at least it's breaking apart in this though they've gone an angle that i really like which is he feels guilty that she's had to take a life or the equivalent of doing that yeah and also she remember she didn't put the pistol in her pack it's in her jacket yeah because he would like it so that she pulls it out in absolute emergencies while she's gonna be like no i want this on hand which i wonder if that'll have consequences yeah yeah because i um again like reactions and stuff when she shot that guy they made sure to show us for it very clearly that she did not enjoy doing that and she's just been tearing up thinking about it the whole time soon after you know not understanding exactly what she's getting into with all the bandit types but yeah i don't mean joel is fucking consumed by like trying to do this job properly feel kind of bad for him because part of it as well i was just thinking about it's like the the issue he has is not she's not just the effort of whether or not he gets to like it but she's also of an age where it's like does he have a responsibility to raise her and what i mean by that is like any and all interaction like the the porn mag for example right that's too old for you like well what do you care i'm just cargo i'm a person to be delivered and he has like this level of responsibility of like well it's inappropriate for people your age and obviously that'll just keep going on and on that's the application right beware and we're in sam oh yeah definitely i imagine next episode is going to be all about henry sam and these guys i'd be my guess just dropping us the setup first and that'll probably be a whole adventure in an episode six will be when the big thing happens with henry and sam maybe or maybe end of episode five i don't know much time they have the end of episode five because they still got to get the tommy stuff and then they got to do the winter section yeah we've got so much stuff to do these episodes are going by fast i mean there's only like eight or nine over overall there's nine episodes here oh who is this the is it like a fungal growth or oh because there was that clip in the trailer where something is rising out of a hole in the ground right right yeah well i was about to say is this an emergence hole like a gear style but i don't think yeah because wait i'm trying to oh i oh i wonder what are they doing here she's so obsessed with getting henry that she's wants to focus their efforts on uh something that you could just let go compared to this clear and present threat oh okay yeah well because uh he's like he ain't so sure about that this is the thing i already feel like i understand her mostly like she's just here oh standard leader for her vengeance well that and just the fact that like you know she's not strictly evil she's she's um oh yeah she's been led down a lot of these harsher choice this is the thing i i feel like this is the way to go you have a lot of characters and a lot of other significant antagonists they're all reflections of joel and then uh relationships are always going to be reflections of joel and ellies and of course like any big criticisms you can have of a lot of characters will likely be like well joel did ba ba ba joel joel's also like i feel like last of us too was supposed to try and point out like the consequences of that reality i just i'm trying not to talk about it but i have to it's stole my investment in this ip and this is building it back up again actually i think they'll meet sam and henry at the end of this episode that would be my guess it'd be a i wonder if they'll do the same thing as the game it's quite a um precarious inter introduction you could say ambush how did you know know what about the ambush i've been on both sides i've been on both sides it was a long time ago we did what we needed to survive you and tess so uh we'll take that of you take it however you want did you kill innocent people give me a minute get up you lazy ass clean the ass 56 years old you go shit hi good job dude i like it i like it a lot this the kind of things i'd like to see what are you doing isn't obvious i don't want someone sneaking up on us while we're sleeping oh i don't know if i'd be sleeping in eyesight of the door though yeah because around something or around the corner or the back there yeah maybe behind the couch or something when we were talking about hurting people what did you mean it wasn't your first time i don't want to talk about it he doesn't want to talk about it either i'm just saying it isn't fair your age so it gets easier when you get older no not really i've noticed you don't hear too well from your right side is it because you were shot there probably more from shooting so if you want to keep your hair when you stick to that knife did you know diarrhea is hereditary what yeah it runs in your genes that is so goddamn stupid you're losing it you're losing a big dive another good moment there interesting that's the best one of the full go better again i'm thinking it is yeah i agree actually yeah we got a lot of good work for these characters in this episode yeah i think that episode really gave us what we needed for these two oh so much stuff has been filled in uh i'm very happy yeah definitely happy that it took that direction and we really focused a lot on ellie and joel and i think they did a really good job of it it was well timed and it you know i at this point i can believe that it you know it's not too soon as well i think what happened there is it's like oh this show is going to be good isn't it like i mean four i mean four is beyond a pattern at this point you got four yeah four good episodes and a lot of clear like intentionality behind the writing yeah it was television there were a couple of things i think that have been missing for a couple people um i've been wanting both uh Pedro and Bella to be pushed a bit acting wise and uh we just got a decent dose of that in the whole episode obviously more binding the two of them together having the exterior be pretty cold and hard but also being uh worn down we just did all of that in the episode those examples are just reasonable and intelligent choices being made by characters throughout i love the fact that there's loads of just tidbits about post-apocalyptic survival that he would know and he's sharing with her like i said i like the efforts with he doesn't know what to do in terms of what to allow her to be exposed to in in the world because he's he's almost got a responsibility to actually take care of this child that's growing up outside of his job as a smuggler the gas breaking down or how siphoning works and then like explaining to the the the glass or the smoke when they were in the forest like there's many different layers of how they're uh improving their relationship and um we had pieces of that in the other episode but this one felt like a fucking you know a shotgun blast of a lot of it yeah you get the sense of this is what you know if they just kept carrying on and on and on this is kind of how they would behave and it was it was just well paced in terms of how they interacted where they still kind of draw their lines of things they don't want to talk about we got the survivally bits we got the hiding from people bits we got him you know taken control and staying on staying on track with her making sure that she's kind of the the focus of his attentions um i think this was really well done i like a i like a great deal of it i'd be surprised if people don't think the bella ramsey's got um a bit more clout now as in like the she's got certainly with me i was i wasn't impressed before this at all but this episode really i'm i'm really down with it now i think uh she's doing a really good job and i think what they're telling her to do is very good uh the certainly the other half of it that you can't forget i just feel like what we're seeing here is um is like the value that can be derived from using television as a format to retell the story is just the amount of time that is afforded just gives them a few more opportunities to build up these characters in their relationship and and give like important moments in the game a little bit more time to breed than they might have had before i like the delaying of having more clicker stuff for now yes and then i feel like very soon we're gonna get a heaping serving of that with whatever's under the ground there i get the impression that uh the next episode's gonna be a bit explosive that would be my guess i'm just so ready for more of it um i yeah yeah absolutely i want to see more is funny enough being in uh muted like i already enjoy you know the guy who's like begging her not to take that second shot and he's explaining it and she's not taking it she's looking a little bit sympathetic and then he just sort of looks over at joe as he's starting about to stand up and it's like yeah good luck convincing that guy the one you were just trying to kill like it's it's so over for you sort of thing the little here i say micro expressions uh all over the place just like it's something that um you can get in video games definitely can especially with the technology the place is at now but when you have a full on actual human being doing a top-notch performance just like yeah this is obviously a power you have with uh tv you get to record it straight into the screen and um oh man just joe being like just go stand behind the wall and then he's just tearing up listening to that guy just has to be killed we've got no choice he has to die that was a great stage yes there were a lot of great scenes though in this episode which is yeah probably the reason why we did a we did a mini arc thing she first tells the jokes and he's like shut the fuck up even says like no and and you get that strict impression of like yeah this is he knows what this means we tell jokes i find them funny exactly we can bond it's like no it's not happening all the way to the end where she tells what did he just he can't not laugh because whatever he's human and it's it's the whole thing she's cracking through him she's restoring his humanity yeah it's part of what is so great about this relationship and how um it looks like they're getting there i like the build-up of her firing the gun in the game when she saves joel it's like a surprise reveal where like it's on the gunshot or right after yeah this it's like you hang on ellie and it's like oh shit i'm doing this like i don't know if we're gonna be the same after this but i have to you know well because yeah she's she's got a couple things to balance at first right do i use the knife i could use the gun and i've got to get through the wall i got it like all these different things that happen and she's clearly uh dealing with all of it and then i don't think she knows that she did the right thing when she shot him as well yeah i like that she paralyzed him and it's like oh my god his legs don't work forever now if he's gonna get out of this alive yeah like she's dealing with having done that to him when joel's sitting there like he's dead so you know this is yeah and then that follow-up conversation where even joel is like it's not like he killed him but like the reason joel's saying all that shit is he recognized pretty easily this has had a huge effect on it and it's not something that he's supposed to prevent stuff like that from having to happen the reason why you know you could argue this another reason why she doesn't get to have a gun is that she'll never need to have one yeah despite her trying to hide how devastated she is by it i think which is what we need it i'm very i'm really happy that after it all happens and she saves joel he's not angry at her for doing it like he's very rational about it he says no keep the gun because i know that it actually might help just keep it in your backpack you know it it's just a very rational course of action to take and i like that well and it's like unless they're meaty he'd be like well you shouldn't have that gun i told you not to have and that's all they would have focused on it i would have been like oh boring yeah it's because there are a few things happening at once it's like thanks yes but also i failed you shouldn't have needed to do that and also your feeling things because of this choice that you made it's uh it's a few things going on all at once and then you basically get to explore a good chunk of that in their subsequent scene yeah i suppose his irrational anger in the game at that moment is a bit justified because this that scene in the game where joel's about to die is a bit more disturbing to watch like where he's holding the guy's holding joel underwater and he like pins his hand down so he can't grab the gun it's like oh my god yeah and you can argue he's not going to be very hyper rational in that moment it's all very stressed and strung out right after this just happened meanwhile here this this is a different version and he's able to very much understand even through his own experience like so you've just done something that's going to affect you significantly you're super young i remember what it was like all that kind of stuff and and just he doesn't know what to say because this he's not no fucking training for like how you're supposed to talk to somebody who's just taken a life yeah she highlights that and so this conversation is really awkward and he just cuts through the shit and just says i'm i'm sorry you shouldn't have had to do that yeah it's not even about consoling her necessarily he's just trying to get out that like i never should have let that happen fuck yeah with a case like this where you have pre-existing material to work with when you're adapting it there's the opportunity to distill and simplify scenes like that uh beat where the truck crashes in the game it's a much bigger set piece there's a whole bunch of enemies it's like a big fight but then this it's just like three guys because that's all we need for this scene to get all the beats across we just need to boil this down to three well as i mentioned right this seems to be something of a system they probably have set up and they probably have shifts right it's just whenever um another car comes in we can fuck them up take them hostage and maybe even kill them or bring them in there's obviously something going on with this whole area but the fact is like i said they they just they hit the wrong people it's gonna have you know big old consequences but that's kind of this world and whatever one's about it's like the further you go out or the different places you visit people are just not ready to trust you they're gonna kill you because they expect you to kill them and then what happens they get killed by you because you're expecting them to try and kill you and so you kill them yeah but to be fair they shot first so fucking hey that's yeah you're getting a fight well and this is the thing i was thinking about it could be that had they you know gotten out of their car they're like are you okay man and then he pulls a gun on them and then he's like don't move hands up you know on the floor and then they eventually get incorporated and spared and join this crew that could be how they get new people in the fact is like you don't get to decide the the way that people join and so people may just try and fucking kill you and that's what this world is and i just appreciate that that's this is good as uh supporting how dangerous it all is but it's also just big for ali to have to go through and like i said that scene come across to me i think he would have been a lot more calm if it was just him joel like he'd be like i'm killing them or they kill me that's just that's how this works but knowing like i can't die because i have to take care of ali yeah it just raises the stakes for him as a character and you know for us even to the point of like uh when they're in the forest and he's like uh she says no one no one's going to find us question mark sort of in the forest and he's like no one's going to find us it's not even about whether or not they would it's just that it's a matter of him trying to state i will protect you no matter what it is my job and i i just appreciate that they're making that very very strong and it's um even throwing in the whole um he wanted to save the world it's a pipe dream firefly is the same the lot of them they're all fucking wrong there is no saving the world it's like wow as it makes you wonder are we gonna see joel as he starts to open up uh to ali and um come to really care for a that maybe he'll even start to lean towards the notion of especially if she starts to adopt the attitude of wanting to save the world right it's like that conversation with everything that we've done everything we've been through it can't be for nothing like that mindset yeah i imagine that i actually have that verbatim and it would just be a situation where maybe joel's like you know maybe you've got a point and then you know you get the the reveal of what's about to happen and then he just abandons it straight away and then maybe something that they actually clash on maybe he starts to see that ali adopts that attitude and he's like i'll be the most controversial episode yes it will i know because they're probably not going to follow the game they'll they'll make tweaks i know i think literally down to individual words being used are going to have huge effects on the discourse yeah i don't know so far it's been pretty good i don't know what else really has been and this is the thing though i don't i don't mind if they do change it so the if the fireflies were a lot more altruistic and the the cure is actually in stone they say like we just need to harvest what's in your brain and that is it and it's done and we have always prepared to create the cure you could push it to the point where it was the world or her and you could still maintain what i think is the point of the last versus an ip possible but i suppose i'm also worried about what they're gonna do with the doctor are they gonna let us know there are things that should be changed when you're doing a thing like this i mean when you got this all new serialized episodic format you look for opportunities to condense events like the the truck crash that happened when it as it does in the games but the beat where she uses the gun to save joel from like almost being killed that happens way later in the game but they saw an opportunity to like well let's just do it here and then we can get that out of the way it doesn't it's not forced in like you know making it happen quicker than just because it happens later in the games doesn't mean it's forced in this case that it's happening quick more quicker well and i hate to is episode three not vindicated somewhat we got huge payoffs for the fact that they had the car the gun and how many instances were there in this episode of joel doing something that relates to his almost getting to the point of insecurity in in the she she matters more than anything right like the failure with seara the failure with tess bill telling him it's his job and the relation he had with with frank being like parallel the fact that she said no one's gonna find us in the forest right and even rags point i was like of course not and then he stays up all night on watch anyway yeah because yeah that's that's joel right now is and i i feel like the job of episode three is is come through already and we haven't even gotten to the big payoff of this whole season well yeah we still got a lot more uh we got a lot more story left but after next week it'll be halfway through which is kind of crazy it feels like it's flying by when you watch the four of them together you've got the package now yeah exactly patience it's a whole season of television well it reminds me like you know some people were very scared that tess was going to be in it for ages like she wasn't and it's like are they even gonna do a payoff with like more more joel and ellie where the fuck are they and it's like we've got it now there it is oh now you've got a whole episode that's very much was focused on you only had a little bit of stuff to set up the main conflict for the next episode here this was a very focused joel and ellie episode which was obviously needed but i mean yeah at this point it's like man i feel like we've done a lot of work so far we're in a really good place to keep going with the rest of the season with more of the plot stuff maybe i call it that like more of the main plot beats from the game like that lady is going to be our it could be that she's knocked out next episode as an antagonist i think like that they've given us you know a quick and simplistic sort of like this is who she is already so i'm curious what the next episode is going to focus on probably henry and sam yeah i like the reveal of them at the end i like that that is the episode cap because we know like they have a beef with the whatever the name of the organization i don't know if it's a wlf or whatever but like you know like they have a problem with henry and sam and then at the end you see that they're holding joel and ellie at gunpoint but you're thinking like well they're probably gonna work together and yeah i hate both of you but i do quite like the reveal of those two characters in the game there's a nice little sequence of events there just take it easy it's all right they're not the bad guys lower the gun and then everyone's just like whoa everybody just chill out yeah i like that uh beating the game a lot but this was fine i mean dude i'm looking forward to the idea that they will have their conversation they'll calm down then they'll team up and then we'll do lots of things can be achieved certain decisions will be made that identify the fact that this isn't a team this is two teams of two and the and then we'll get the other thing that will happen i'm trying to remain relatively spoiler free here because i don't know how much rags remembers nor how much people who are watching this remember lots of great potential to come is the way i would put it really strong episodes i'm still hooked and that uh cracked ground thing is really cool it's like oh what's that gonna be well yeah i'm just like you're you're actually giving me a setup here that i want to see resolve i want to see what happens with the things that you presented me yeah it's not i'm not rolling my eyes because like oh let me guess doh doh doh will happen it's like no i really want to know i think you've got something in mind yeah it's like a little nuclear warhead of sorts they have in that room i love the discovery on it and it looks so creepy and then they're just like holy shit and they back out close the door let's not go back in there it seems like they have some level familiarity like they know what it is right yeah i certainly fucking don't i have a feeling small people infected are gonna crawl out of there and if we get them led by a bloater i think fads will be like yeah you're doing game things in this game show yeah i think we got a lot of the beats that were required they've adapted with respect and care they've got joel is like talented and cold we're necessary i would say um he's also like i said warmer than the game and i don't think that's a downgrade at all i think it's just different even though um there are plenty of moments where he's perfectly warm and chill with with ellie certainly by this part into the storyline as well do you know what's not right left yeah that's awesome would you play this before no but i had a friend that knew everything about this game apparently there's this character called angel knives who'd what was it she'd punch a hole through your stomach before kicking your head off i'm never a big fan of these things ellie was so fucking confident and smug in the in the first three mostly it's really good to drag her into something that's really fucking hard to deal with and watching her actually have trouble with it it's like good needed that too just the fact that they're helping each other the banking on the setups in episodes one two and three all at once and um i like i said four and five i can't imagine it's not going to be fucking engaging it's just that everyone's panicking about where it ends that's all yeah but you know it's not about the destination it's about the journey all right and so far so good i don't know what to say yeah so far so good definitely impressed with it all right thanks for watching everybody see you from episode five yeah we will see everybody later on thanks everybody bye bye bye they put a gun to my head desert eagle can shoot through anything what'd you bring me hi welcome last of us episode five and it ended exciting i thought you're gonna go really like information based like hello episode five e-fap last of us tv show the problem was i jumped right into it and i was figuring it out in real time like what is the tone i want to go for here am i going for goofy or am i going for serious or am i going for something in between and i'm not sure what i settled on there well as is usual with these sorts of things i say is if we've done this one before this is actually the first of its kind in terms of a format because it's different than the hillhouse one very different than like mando kanobi this is like complimentary i don't think anything compares appropriate as the proper inaugural e-fap tv you know except velma i'm weird and no one likes me velma popped out right i'm i'm happy to i'm happy to pretend that this was the beginning of velma was just a sin that arrived around same time well what i was gonna say about that is is an interesting dynamic with this one especially because we're not just being complimentary and trying to give it room to breathe where it requires it i mean that in both how we analyze it but also how it's presented i actually wanted to start with that a lot of people have been bringing up like in in both complimentary and criticism the um the cuts between the show in the game in these edits what criticisms do they have i'm legitimately curious because that is insanely helpful for like me who remembers very little of the game in a lot of compliments which makes sense but uh the criticism include like you're taking away from the experience by like randomly cutting into different media instead of the same one like you not random it's far from random well literally the show the scene from the game that they're either trying to somewhat redo or base their thing off of so i wanted to explain there's like three big reasons number one would be uh yeah for the sake of looking at how faithful this thing is or how it compares to its source material and you might be like you don't do that with other stuff so like we don't do it with things we're not that familiar with that's just how it works um been this way since the beginning we talk about how faithful a thing is if we have the chance to be able to talk about it we often don't because we don't know the source that's just a reality for most people but remember how faithful it is does not determine how good it is we've always been on that position but we've always said hey man it's interesting to have the adaptation conversation like oh did they change this and this like why would they do that do you think that that change matches the thing they're creating or does it take away or is this a mistake through rushing and and compressing or is this something that they expanded and you know fixed up or whatever we've had plenty of those concessions and i think that those clips help people who aren't familiar secondly it is helpful dramatically you have no idea with copyright of all things you may you may not have thought but that that is like one of the primary things that was really helpful if i can show you a full scene of what happens in this story like by side with the game you get to consume almost the whole story from the uh the tv show without it being angry and shutting the whole thing down so that's another reason why it's super useful then i'd say third and finally um i think it is quite entertaining to to watch i think it actually does add to to see these two mesh i try to build them in a way that doesn't like you get the similar payoffs as they're running next to each other while simultaneously matching for copyright like i said as a protection but i think it works but i i just want people to know it's there for several reasons and it can't go away anytime soon nor can i think it's very helpful that's that but look i'm gonna resurrect something even though it would never really truly die i just kind of didn't do it for the other ones because i was just busy getting these things done but you're you guys remember a little thing called comment showcase it's the thing that just got a name really doesn't need one it's just us looking at comments because i saw a consistent set of comments about uh episode so like the vibe i think was that we were too nice to the show in episodes one and two episode three you everyone's familiar with the discourse over that one it's nightmarish it's all over the place so good and i actually feel like we happily did a decent job at the end of episode three going through the major ones like it being filler boring irrelevant to the main plot line irrelevant to the main characters i think we gave our takes on all that episode four they're our criticisms and there are things that people feel we did not cover as well so we're gonna just check out a few of them probably take it in the little turns topic number one is kathleen the lady who is in charge seemingly of the kansas city uh rebels chiefs i guess uh we'll just go left to right nice and simple for you to want to read this first one i found the leader of this kansas city group to be very disappointing she's clearly not a proper leader ignoring dire court aseps related problems to focus on her own vendetta shooting an unarmed prisoner during an emotional episode who is a doctor and will most likely help heal people in need or without the threat of death and setting up ambushes and getting weirdly upset someone would escape and survive it she doesn't have any charisma or natural leadership skills she's just a lady in charge because she's the most mad about losing her family it seems like i just don't understand how anyone could take her seriously i get the leader of the group wanted to kill the doctor but she had a situation where she was reminded of the possible need for a doctor and shot him anyway there was a reason why being educated was considered a valid defense in death penalty trials for the last few centuries when doctors are worth their weight in gold it's not a good idea to kill them keep them prisoner by all means but it seems like a stupid decision even if motivated by emotion lady up and killed one of the most valuable commodities in apocalypse a real doctor you keep those pukes locked up teaching babies everything you know until they die of old age if he done bad then you lock him up underground teaching anything that can move and isn't infected that said i find it hilarious that they have crazy mommy shoot a doctor in such cold blood over a child considering what two is all about sure every dumbass intellectual tripped over themselves demonizing joel and with kukman desperate to rewrite history to make zebra man the messiah of the apocalypse but i'm sure this will have no bearing on anything and will never be referenced so it seems there is a consistent problem with the idea that she killed a doctor and that she seems to be overly emotional and she shouldn't be leading well i mean the show is very clearly trying to tell you that this was not a decision that was made based on rationality that she did this when she was at least convinced herself in ryan sam i assume we're still out there and killing her people and that made her very upset and angry she has some sort of a very emotional connection to them and that's why she shot him as far as i'm aware it's not much in the episode but it's there so she makes it clear that the doctor is someone who ratted out people to fedra like just to clarify for anyone listening the situation is in kansas city fedra have control and they boss everyone around to the point where they likely did some horrible horrible things i'm assuming we're going to get more context on that um including but not limited to torture and kill uh for information about rebels trying to breach the system and there were people who worked with fedra to sell out their friends and family for whatever reason again with who sam and henry are in the game i imagine we're going to get a reason for that i doubt they're going to leave it just that he just sold out her brother and the brother died that seems like it would be unusual by the way the the theme of what i'm saying in this opening is going to be we need to fucking wait before we can judge all these stories because they're not been told yet everyone's jumping the gun and that's been what's happening throughout this whole season but i think we're going to get a reason for henry and sam doing that but hey we may not with her she expresses that she's got some serious like love for her brother as you can tell and she wants to kill sam and henry for having led to his death now i don't know more than that but the doctor didn't lead to a brother's death he just led to other people's capture and death and it seems to me with the aggression she has against fedra in their control that it's funny because gary brought it up in open bar i think after we talked a bit about it he said like even if they're a doctor you've got to be fucking careful as hell with someone like that if you don't trust them they can subvert you in all kinds of ways especially a doctor they can get they can still kill and make people live depending on whatever they want if she just doesn't trust him all you need to know is that it's enough for her to execute him and that kind of like cold attitude is um something a lot of people will flock toward for leadership depending on what she's done in the past but the thing is as you can tell from these comments a lot of people are like how did she earn the role why would people have elected her it's like we don't actually know yeah we don't have a lot of information on her how many how many minutes of great time did she get like five minutes maybe if that very little when he pleads with her that he's the one that brought her into the world she has like some a decent bit of acting there if someone is brand new clearly there's more dimensions to her that are going on but it as freaky points out in the episode live she's overwhelmed with vengeance and of course people think he likes right as that she is going to fail like her narrow focus on getting revenge to the detriment of to the exclusion of these more present problems is gonna have serious consequences for her in her group that's like the point obviously that last comment references how like she's making the same apparent mistake that uh like the Joel was making it's like is everyone going to comment that it's like I think this episode about that so that last comment struck me as odd it's like you do sort of recognize that the show is painting her as an antagonistic force right she's probably going to get killed by the bloater and she'll probably die in a scene that is like her choosing revenge instead of focusing on the infected yeah it'll probably come to a place where it's probably going to be the easy setup you're going to have a bunch people from disparate groups who are in this area together and then you have like you know bloater bunch of infected coming and it's like well we could all work together or we could fight and the world fucked which is and also ties obviously into broader themes that usually happen in post-apocalypse stories about how all of these divisions that people draw between each other probably should fall away in the face of a crazy existential threat but people can be stubborn and we don't know how popular she is she might be holding on to authority by a thread there might be a lot of people who do not like her being in charge we don't know if other people also make decisions or if she's only in charge of a certain branch I find it all a bit awkward where it's almost like it sometimes seems like what's baked into it is listen to her voice it's not very threatening that kind of sort of read of the character it just strikes me as a little bit odd yeah um like I mean why it's so hard to believe that somebody like this could end up being a leader I guess I'm just a little bit perplexed by it well yeah if that's the challenge if people like can you explain any environment in which this could be possible in a post-apocalypse and drinker did on on open bar is just saying like well society hasn't collapsed for them they're building something there she if she's got the right qualities or she's proven herself in whatever way if she organized them to destroy Fedra then yeah they're gonna put a lot of trust in it all she needs is a selection of people that um are powerful do hold influence there that do think she should be in charge that's enough and that can happen with anyone but the big thing for me is just like can we please have a little bit more from it before we uh we decide this is absolutely nonsense right because again five minutes maybe I want to find out a bit of her history her motivations for like why she's doing all of this I want to know I'd be it'd be cool to know why she's in power I don't know if we'll get it and uh same for Sam and Henry I want to know how they interact with her and I think that's what this whole episode is going to be about what the whole thing is going to be is that for as disarming as she may appear she's probably going to be quite ruthless and she's willing to just like shoot people and kill them well I mean we've not that already that should be which I think is easily coming from the fact that that's what Fedra did to them for 20 years she's that kind of character it comes across to me uh someone that I was thinking about was for anybody who's watched it uh House of the Dragon the kind of character the women in the world of Westeros a lot of them speak softly are calm but they will kill you in an instant and then they have plenty of guys around them that respect the the decisions they make and sort of work as their right hand their fists so to speak and if she's that kind of character it'd be cool to see I don't really mind I'm I'm gaming for a lot of different things uh I don't have a screenshot of this one but I saw a lot of people saying it uh I didn't manage to grab it in time it was um how fucking retarded that they put all that effort into making Joel smart enough to put glass down and yet he's attacked by surprise dumb oh uh yeah so that failsafe isn't 100 effective obviously Ellie even said like are you sure you're gonna hear it and we don't even know you know the you know the the people who get past that they don't know if they're aware of it they might have seen it and gone around it there is the board counter and then there's the specific counter the broader is pretty much what you've done there and and yeah like this you can subvert traps that's the thing and traps are not guaranteed well it's not perfect but it's something but the specific one is super interesting the pov thing they're not unwilling to do uh the big pov film so I'm assuming we're gonna get Sam and Henry's uh pov and they don't have to because I know how it can work but they might show they put something down to make it make that sound they they move around it it'll be cool if they acknowledge it but I don't think they even have to the cool detail and this was pointed out a couple of people in chat uh sorry in comments I didn't actually notice it was highlighted that um Joel's right ear is uh fucked basically from overly shooting I've noticed you don't hear too well from your right side is it because you're a shot there probably more from shooting he doesn't favor he favors his left and so if he's sleeping on his side which he is in the scene he goes to sleep on his right ear meaning his left ear is open and out when he's woken up he's sleeping on his left ear meaning his right ear was up point being he turned over during his sleep and his his less favored ear was the one he was relying on which I think is kind of neat to put together um that is something they point out there's a neat detail yeah I don't think you can blame Joel for turning over in his sleep right that's just something that you do that was really nice touch and I think also it's conceivable they could have come in through a window or something um not necessarily that door I mean they've they've been escaping uh these people for however long they must be careful with everything they do and remember that the big thing as well is they are he's main like Joel doesn't know about Henry or Sam he's worried about these guys and so the logic of going up there in the first place and sending those traps was to be safe against those guys not other people in the the city you know that they're not aware of his agents that are moving around in a very good at getting around safely it's a pretty good system that he came up with I don't find it it's funny weird where it's like ha it failed it's like yeah I guess they do sometimes yeah I'm just going with you it's kind of kind of good we have different results instead of just they always win or anything consistent results yeah he didn't provide her with a gun she took it from bills uh and she's also killed before preferred the game version tuba tuba and uh the second one you uh you spend a lot of time discussing that Ellie was changed by having to shoot that guy she mentions more than once that she's done it before the writers probably shouldn't have included that but they did I think she says she's done something before she's hurt someone before I don't think that killing a person or whatever she's done in whatever context she's done is going to change the fact that she had to do what she did in that scenario he also didn't want to talk about it when Joel asked her about it yeah I would say that our major points are just that her acting and the writing shows that this had a huge effect on it and Joel recognized it whether or not she's killed someone before it still had a huge effect on it is what's important and then uh just I'm not sure what the whole like he didn't provide it with the gun she took it from bills but did we say anything different yeah I I mean we saw that saying what do we think he got or is of course you know we know that we think she got the gun she got the same gun that um Frank took out when he went outside to defend Bill who's from the same place as well as it is that very good yeah um yeah I know she took the gun and then saying um preferred the game version I'm not sure exactly what part you prefer but uh I prefer the show vision for sure on that one specific scene if it's the specific scene of her shooting the guy then yeah the show is better on that one yeah I think so but we will it's a scary thought isn't it well let's think I'm I've shat enough on how the the game does things better than show but I think there are times now where there's the show doing things better than game but we've got this one I guess I'll read this here I go I completely disagree that this was better than in the game his cruel words and treatment give Ellie a time to stand up for herself while reinforcing Joel's view of her as a burden which makes her arc uh his arc more impactful because he grows to view her as a daughter he's already treating her like a fatherly figure in episode four by trying to shield her from the horrors of the world in the game he made sure she stayed behind because he didn't want a liability and needed to protect his cargo in the show he doesn't want it to be traumatized and obviously protecting the cargo a small difference but it has big impacts on other characters of view I don't see Joel as a hard and jaded man that doesn't give a shit about strangers his arc will be less impactful and I'm not okay with that there's a lot here it is a lot it is a lot his cruel words and treatment give Ellie a time to stand up for herself while reinforcing does this so I assume they're talking about the game version they are indeed the scene where he says to her like you just hang back like I told you to well you're glad I didn't write I'm glad I didn't get my head blown off by god damn kid that's almost meta where you're appealing to what his words allow her to do as a character or would allow her to do as a character when in Joel's perspective that wouldn't really be a reason why he said those things what they did in the show was they had Joel essentially recognize that she did ultimately save him and he doesn't get angry at her for doing that he gets very becomes apologetic to her that she was put in a situation like that that he shouldn't have allowed to happen which is a different way to take it but I think is ultimately really really excellent and comes across as more fatherly to me actually well so that's part of that criticism I guess he's too fatherly he should be it's too far away too early that's too early yeah that's the thing I don't think this is too early at all I think we've already done yeah we're in episode four so I want to bring up his violin this whole his cruel words and treatment give Ellie a hard time to stand up for herself give her a time to do it while reinforcing his view of her as a burden they actually did this in episode three nobody made you go along with this plan you needed a truck battery or whatever and you made a choice don't blame me for something that isn't my fault easily looking at it almost like a noi because that's almost expected that this whole thing wouldn't have happened if not for this new mission they had that was thrust on them because of all the shit that happened with Robert and Marlene in a way you could see it as though if if if Ellie never existed Tessa be alive and she cut through all of that immediately which I think shows some level of emotional intelligence on her part yeah and then of course in response to that he's gonna see her which he does at that point and has done as fucking this this thing I've got to deal with but at the same time she is a kid and we've talked about how they've been chipping away at that be it through her jokes or her commentary on anything her way of trying to interact with him what bill has said how she reflects Sarah how she reflects Tess and then like having to worry about what she should be exposed to and stuff I think they've they've done all the beats they require and the thing is you might want to replay the game he's already similarly as fatherly to her at this in the similar timeline I would say now the safety zone do you know how to switch it off I do you just you gotta respect it this is not good Joel I'll be careful okay yeah because you gotta think about where these events take place in the context of other major beats because the really important thing with the Henry and Sam beat is that's the thing that makes Joel want to get off you know he he doesn't want to really do this anymore he wants to pass this off to this part of the reason why he wants to pass it off to Tommy he don't want to deal with the with like this feeling of um the peril that she's in and how culpable he's going to be if she gets hurt or killed that's one of the things that's informing in any way and in terms of the timeline you know episode four is about close to that as uh the payoff was in the game as well to which one might be able to say it's like well maybe he should be a little bit further along in terms of warming up to uh to LA by this point I think one could even make that argument as criticism of the game because part of what I like about the show's vision is yeah you shot someone and save me so you take the gun off and then he's like okay fine here is the gun this is how you use it use it for emergencies like that seems the most reasonable development meanwhile in the game he takes it off it says she did something wrong and then she's later on it's just like you're an asshole I I didn't break your rules for any other reason than I thought you were in trouble and she says uh whatever and then after that he's like okay I need to go down there and do things here's a rifle keep me covered and it's it's like you're supposed to gather I think from the subtext in the game that it's like you see he does trust it with guns now and it's like yeah but nothing was given back and forth between the characters it was more so just um you know you shouldn't have done that I saved your life and he's like and then gives you the rifle like okay while the conversation the show I found to be way more meaningful and this is someone who really likes the story in the game just saying I just think it's kind of the problem that I have with the comment is there's not much of a it's like it's it's more so just pointing out how it's different from what the game had and then sort of consequently will be less impactful without much consideration for how the changes that were made so this payoff here will feed into the arc that they're sending them on in this show which may be different than what was in the game well like there's not much consideration to anything that was gained by doing it this way it seems to almost be being treated like a strict loss yeah which is a bit weird right considering that it's like well surely you would have to acknowledge that what's being created here in terms of more elements of a feeling of he failed and so she had to do that and then loss of innocence or if you know something along those lines like that that as a dynamic there's got to be something there right or is that is that neutral is that of no value at all part of what seems to be said in this comment is the um that's something you would gain like a fatherly expectation trying to protect it from particular whatever experience is that you should protect it from someone engaged with some that's a fatherly thing it's like no i'm pretty sure that is just a basic humanity thing if you're moving as an adult if you're moving a human child around different places they're just automatically this happens in real life if you see a kid fucking around with something or about to eat like something off the floor you as a person like oh uh you shouldn't be doing that that's whether or not their cargo and so like having those elements is that's part of why the last verse is awesome it it chips into him with some other things that surround the idea of becoming fatherly to it and then it will generate that that relationship oh and of course by the way that i'm just not because in the game he made sure she stayed behind because he didn't want to liability so this is that ludonarrative dissonance coming back in ellie is an active participant in combat yes and not to mention that uh you can't even make that argument for the comparison because he gives her the rifle almost straight after that yeah but that's a big one actually she actively participates in combat she'll like throw bricks at people she'll stab people with the switchblade like in close quarters combat so like joel is clearly pretty comfortable with having her be in the fray yeah he doesn't keep her like out of the whole area or anything but in fact that actually seems like it could present a serious problem and then at least facilitating the argument that you're making about like the arc that he's going on and so when they say a small difference but has big impacts on the characters of view it's like i think i agree with you but i'm obviously gunning for the positive effects i'm like these small changes with having really good effects and then to say i don't see joel as a hardened jaded man that doesn't give a shit about strangers so first of all joel joel cares about strangers very much yeah he helped henry and sam not only that he he is so hyper aware of the average person that he doesn't trust basically anybody until he's in situations where he has essentially they've proven themselves by circumstance like henry and sam they could in the game have shot him when they met but they don't and that's quite a bit already for him to trust them then they find out that they're they're similar in that they're both being hunted by the local like rebels and so then they slowly connect and yeah he um he goes on limb for them a decent bit so i would say game joel cares about strangers and so does show joel so i i don't agree with that part then game joel and show joel are hardened of course they are well how would we rate hardened he executed a man by stabbing him in the heart like i i think that makes you hardened like i don't know man yeah and of course killing like other guys as well whether it's the game or the show i think joel is absolutely intended to be seen as a hardened jaded man who's somebody who has been a smuggler in this hellish world for 10 or at least 10 years i want to go further than saying he is i want to be like what is hardened and it relates to like being able to do these really harsh things with uh bailey what seems to be a bailey and kind of emotional effect on you you're that far along in experience now you know what needs to be done subject of jaded he literally says there's no saving the will saving that it can't be saved and that you have to it's much more tight knit in terms of your priorities so i would say that he is hardened and jaded and you're wrong on the statement that either of them don't care about strangers the point being made here is that the show the show is like actually pretty good um so far well yeah and the whole his arc will be less impactful can you please wait until his arc is over wait until it's over and then we'll see you know because uh i think they've got lots of pieces in place that could make it really strong i don't know it just feels like um it feels like even this far into the show it's like a lot of people aren't willing to give it a chance well to play out on that note rags read this last comment four is beyond a pattern the show is going to be good game of thrones had four good seasons but after that i get you want to be optimistic but the reality is a four good episodes is just that four good episodes it's more likely the show will be good but it's still very possible they'll hillhouse midnight mess it up especially considering how the two second part of what they're adapting went i'm just saying be cautious with your optimism so um before seeing any of the show i probably would have said it's going to be bad then someone would be like it's made by the guy who made shinobal yeah but neil druckman though it's like neil druckman made the last first part one at least with a lot of people it's like yeah but look what he made recently okay all right fine that seems like it's relatively reasonable you can say it's gonna look in looking bad watch episode one it's like that was pretty solid uh i mean it might be okay watch episode two it's really solid you're like uh i don't know still fine watch episode three like damn that was even a risky move and you managed to nail it uh i don't know yeah sure maybe watch episode four really solid and filled in a whole bunch of blanks we were looking for it's like at this point it's like well i would just be lying to you if i said that i thought it was still gonna be bad of course i now think it's gonna be good i felt the same way for house the dragon i would have said the same for hillhouse and midnight mass as we were watching i'd be like this is gonna be great in fact midnight mass after a couple of episodes i would have said this is gonna be fucking amazing well i think it's it's relatively straightforward right by the end of season four game wow i guess before the finale right because that's where you think it goes bad if somebody went into season five with the expectation that it would be good nobody would say that's unreasonable yeah i think the position right now is that the show will be good yeah because the other one would just be assuming that it's gonna completely collapse base when all of the input so far has been positive we've had loads of standard setups and payoffs we're running characters in a very consistent way they seem to care about how they build their world and they seem to pay attention to like ammo and gun limitations as well as human limitations for a lot of things characters have made some pretty clever decisions here and there i'm not going to say it's flawless because it isn't a lot of detail on the production standpoint but when you see all of those values being repeated you're like all right i think there's there's good reason to assume that this will be repeated in the future episodes because these are all made together i don't see why i was gonna guess i would guess that it would be good but uh you know you can appeal and rightly so it could be anything could be a disaster that we're about to see in episode five six seven eight nine that could be yeah it could be could be doubted though i just yeah i think uh if we're gonna be betting on one thing right now it's that the show will be good yeah that would be that would be the safest bet i think if someone said a half turned out to be bad i'd be like safest bet at this point was good though i don't i don't what would be the uh-huh it'd be like well yeah but i'm pretty happy with a lot of the the coverage so far and the dissection and analysis of the show there's not really any motivation for us to be nice to this show we've been kind of rule to the last of us ip for the past few years i was not expecting this to be this good and of course there were all the comments beforehand about video games and adaptations that were pretty frustrating as well yeah um even though this is probably one of if not the best route uh i mean if it stays if it stays i mean the fact that we've had four good episodes puts it really high up anyway i guess the more relevant question would be how does it stack up to arcane by the end oh well that's the thing i feel like arcane's a different thing faithfulness low but quality high this is faithfulness pretty high quality high i doubt i'll like it as much as arcane by the end but you know what i'm happy to be surprised yeah it's just arcane um that's top tier in any case you guys ready for us to watch up to five i am ready i am so ready i'm excited for this one so the record i've not really heard much complaints for this one mostly just praise anything so i don't know really the i've been trying to avoid uh the assumption we have of course is that this is just going to be the conclusion of the kansas city arc yes everything here henry sam and kathleen stories will likely end in this one or maybe continue you never know kathleen seems to me like the kind of person that will die this episode i don't know yeah i think so and i think it will be the bloater i just want to see the bloater man squish someone's head like a tomato i want to see the bloater go whoo yeah definitely done away with them uh opening scenes huh yeah well yeah i guess we were wrong about that we kind of thought that that might continue forever it might just be now we'd not get anymore at all because you never know what are they gonna make the first of us the prequel the last of them the first of us the precursors well not legacy it will just be the precursors i sure do love freedom oh is this great this is when they beat fedra yeah i assume so yeah fuck you fedra man there's a lot of people here too yeah there is a lot of people yeah i'd have to imagine this is gonna be building up who these bad guys are oh this seems maybe this is a bit much fellas this is this is definitely uh not okay oh come on guys use your words well uh i don't know maybe fedra we're really bad really bad oh so yeah this will be henry and sam you'll receive a fair trial yeah sure you have to assure me that that's the thing you're gonna do then i'm like oh yeah we're already past me believe you oh jesus christ just dragging to do yeah this is this is encouraging about your free fair trials it's almost like a loony toon's death full of knives like yeah seriously this is what the way to do it start up with these guys give them a go to get to learn them especially if this is the only episode we get with them well it's a big if who knows bloods to be as all over the walls do that oh yeah reassuring hurts the ambience you know terry i used to be so scared of these people did it feel good the train your neighbors to fedra watching us hang so that you could get medicine alcohol fucking apples how does it make you feel now we could put you on trial you're all guilty so that's how that'll go where is henry you're informers inform kill him he's with edelstein well he was a lot more discreet than you fucking idiots where are they he had a place to hole up in the open city haven't you heard kansas city is free i swear i've told you everything i know of course you have you're a rat i don't think they're ever gonna let rat so to speak ever be a non-prison or non-killed yeah the perception would be that if i've done it before they can do it again it's not even just that it's like a um you chose that when we were at our worst so at our best you don't deserve shit and you won't get shit he's not my seventh priority perry is that what he is to you right so this whole time he's sort of just been like about this vendetta we are not really putting them on trial when you're done burn the bodies it's faster that'll be what i mean she's exactly what we expected in terms of the way that she conducts herself he's clean and ruthless yeah and it's simple math to her you betrayed us you got us killed you got us hanged now you get hanged sort of thing uh yeah she's gonna be a vengeance character and like you saw what everyone was doing there apparently her executing people is not out of the fucking realm of usual yeah i'm not acting like this is something that she just came up with that day for that moment seems like fedra were doing it to them for years and then they did it do you see what they would fucking do it seems to be the rules yeah the rules of the game apparently is just how everyone's operating i'm wondering if uh is it that sam is deaf or that they're using sign language because it means they can communicate without you know making a sound i don't know seems like it would be oh well i guess we're about to find out oh it's he's a guy is he edelstein then must be oh edelstein grunting there you go oh so when we caught up with them like he had just been captured i guess yeah yeah because this is the room that they found in the episode i barely made it out as is so we're fucked up for ammunition empty so is mine so we'll sneak our way out tunnels tunnels i go to the trouble you can kill yourself right here i think we can make it 11 days so that's how long we have to figure it out he's scared because you're scared i wonder if we're gonna get some parallels for these two ever get ourselves establishing some little you know things they like to do one remember when they encountered uh golyn ellie he kind of had he'd like drawn on kind of like the well they say in super sam the superhero kind of yeah they're both drawn as superheroes makes him brave makes him feel yeah brave i wonder how you do italics in sign language yeah i guess no more food and everything you gotta leave yeah they were mentioning that they needed to figure out a plan to leave here within the 11 days yeah 11 days assuming that it was the three of them splitting the food so it's probably been you know around that well it's been 10 days i said before so it must be a lot now so they need to move out the food i don't know if they have an escape plan yet though doesn't seem like like they do i mean whatever plan they might have had might have been ruined by them doing all these patrols also the death of uh edelstein i like that i was spending so much time with these characters right now is helping even out the distribution of stream screen time across all characters like the the bill episode up until now felt like very uh unique and it's it's lack of joe and ellie but now we have another episode like it you know what i mean well yeah i think getting carried through if this story is kept to the game story i think this one's gonna go over way better with people yeah i think um one of the benefits that they're having with the show is that because the game has a fixed perspective on joe and ellie because of them being player characters means that you can't really have scenes like this in in those games yeah whereas here you can have the uh you know just episodes on about joe and ellie because it's not a fixed perspective show if you want to get to brass tacks technically speaking this is all unfaithful right now this isn't in the game right because this is a story that we didn't get but it's good story i like i think people most people would say that it is faithful so far uh well because we're making a distinction between like disfaithful and unfaithful in a way where if it's not contradictory it's one thing if you're adding supplemental stuff it's another yeah oh that'll be joe so a question i was gonna have was the nature in which they got to joe and ellie right and if it is as simple as they followed them then good yeah because it looks like that might happen still be one more downshot to here right with the shotgun when he butts her yeah yeah well two more shots oh you're right yeah and then a series of screams ah maybe they cut before um yeah they probably did i guess they're thinking we'll follow these guys these are these are not friends of our enemies so yeah enemies of our enemies will hopefully be our friends it's not a bad idea oh there you go it's addressed all right there you go it's for me guys just gonna wait remember what to do and i think this show with the quality we've seen so far certainly did deserve the benefit i am funny that i mean thank you don't doing their best to avoid it oh all right that was pretty expeditious yep now we're here yeah that was quick eyes on me okay we didn't hurt you so you heard us that's right so we're fucking told man that's just the way he sounds he has an asshole voice joe tell him he's okay everything is great dude everything is great dude they've really got so little choice you know yeah they can't get these two to help them try anything yeah my name is henry it's my brother sam i'm the most one of men in kansas city okay i pegged him for a bottle i guess he's running a close second well yeah that's about how i'd expect that to go i suppose yeah he's just thank you i guess you don't have one so this means a lot i'm ellie i'm joe you wait we didn't kill each other let's call this a win-win and wall is going win-win now y'all came up here to get a view of the city and plan a way out and when the sun's up i'll show you one all right we got something you want hey all right and joe is a very capable man well yeah it looks like that's where they're drawn to him as well right you would have saw him shooting they've been tortured and murdered people for 20 years oh there you go you know what happens great tortured and murdered for 20 years from fedra that's why these people are fucking crazy then yeah i'm a collaborator i don't work with rights yeah you fucking do i know the city and that's how i'm gonna help you get out you seem capable enough your arm and wrong and wrong never killed anyone and pointing an unloaded gun to choose the closest i've ever come to being violent oh yeah that's right the guns were empty remember mission empty so is mine that's right they are empty yeah doesn't it at all feel like there's just all the blocks that are required are getting built like one by one yep information required here got it information required here got it wow all right ready it's been a while since that boy even cracked a smile and a long t