India innovation, for many of you who have been tracking us, we have been tracking the great progress that India has been making in terms of ramping up its strength in innovation. We all know that India is an amazing country in terms of its ability to supply and make generics. Actually over the past decade, if we just look at ANDA or generic filings with the FDA, India accounts for over 35% of those filings and recently has overtaken the United States as the number one country in the world on generics, but that's not what we're here to talk about. We're here to talk about innovation, of which there are some promising science and challenges. Challenges include the relatively low per capita R&D spend in India. It's 20% of that in countries like Germany and Japan and slightly more relative to China. But there are some very encouraging signs and one of the encouraging signs that I'll point out is the number of Indian students that are actually studying abroad. Just last year, 750,000 Indian students studied abroad, 28% of which were in the United States. It was actually the second leading country for international students across the world. So with that said, we'll very much look forward to the panel. I have the great privilege to introduce Sanat Chapa Dapa Day and I think I've gotten your name correct. Yes, Sanat. I practiced it intensively over the weekend. Sanat is the head of one of the greatest most iconic manufacturing divisions across all of industry at Merck. And before I hand it over to you, Sanat, I'm just struck by a line that was espoused by Pfizer and Albert Borla over the last year. And it was a line from the great founder of Merck, George Merck, who said that if you make great medicines, the profits will follow. So now I'll hand it over to you for India Innovation. Thank you, Andy. Thank you very much. Good morning. Good afternoon and good evening to all of you all. Welcome to the session on India Innovation Panel. As you have seen, we have a very distinguished group of panelists whose bio have already been posted in the website, their Amitabh Khan, Chief Executive Officer of the National Institution for Transforming India, Dilip Sanghvi, Managing Director, Sun Farmer Critical Industries Limited, Hari Bhartiya, is of course not being able to join today, Professor Vijay Raghavan, Principal Scientific Advisor of Government of India and Dr. Nareesh Trehan, Chairman, Medanta Hospital. As you heard from Andy, we all know that necessity is always the mother of invention. And we have seen the world coming together on a war footing to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic. We are witnessing scientists and medical technology developers leveraging innovations to launch a scientifically rigorous response to the novel coronavirus. And with the COVID-19 pandemic causing massive disruptions in our health care system, many Indian innovators are rising to the challenge. It's well known that India is one of the largest producers of vaccines in the world. But now what we see is COVID is resulting in innovative vaccines being discovered and produced indigenously in India. And the best example of that is Covaxin. That's simply fantastic. COVID-19 crisis has also created new partnerships, for example, between serum and, you know, first AstraZeneca, then Novavax. And we have now the collaboration between J&J and BioE and there are some more. So in other words, COVID-19 has brought an unprecedented sense of urgency to the evolution of scientific innovations and technical cooperations. On the conception of an early idea or a prototype to mass production and on-ground deployment of the innovation. And the need of the hour is for the government, industry and academia to leverage this new found innovation of efforts for a sustained ecosystem of innovation in India. We are witnessing the immediacy of the present situation enabling that innovation at all levels be it increased funding from the public and the private sector or faster regulatory approvals. And therefore, I would dare say that will be prudent for governing bodies to start laying the guidelines that should allow all these new found changes in the innovation ecosystem to persist even beyond the pandemic. So let me start with Amitabh Khan and Vijay Raghavan. Amitabh and Vijay, during the pandemic, we have witnessed very strong partnerships between the government, the healthcare, tech entrepreneurs, patient groups with the farm industry. And that includes ensuring supplies of essential medicines, digital mapping of resources, setting up dedicated hospitals. We also know that the future respiratory pandemics may have new features that may take longer to identify and they may be vaccine recalcitrant. So it may be important to consider how we can have very strong yet operationally viable non-pharmacological interventions like high quality masks with HEPA filters that can be speedily and inexpensively deployed widely can be used to allow healthcare and frontline workers to function at full capacity. So given all of these things, may I request both of you to comment on the measures that are being put in place to combat a potential wave three of the pandemic. And if you can also touch upon the post-COVID opportunities for India in RND and manufacturing. And to that extent has COVID pushed India to seriously focus on biopharma innovation and RND. Amitabh, can I request you to go first, please? Yeah, when COVID struck India, you know, we were not manufacturing PPEs, we were not manufacturing ventilators, but with support of private partners, India's developed the technical capability to manufacture ventilators, oxygen concentrators, PPEs, sanitizers, surveillance mechanism has been strengthened to capture and monitor disease outbreaks in different regions. Indian SARS-CoV-2 genome sequencing consortia in Saqqog has been set up by the government for large-scale sequencing of viral genome to identify variants of concern. Vaccination production capacities have been enhanced and oxygen transport facilities have been established. We've set up a vast number of PSA oxygen generation plants in hospitals, 551 of them to be exact across the country, mobile ICU bedded facilities with well-equipped medical devices and sanitation protocols are now being set up by different states in rural and remote regions. And vaccination for 18 years and above is being driven on a war footing. Just yesterday, we've done close to about, you know, at the 8.2 million vaccinations at the, you know, which has been a record of sorts. And with this momentum, we'll be able to vaccinate majority of the people in coming months. Civil society organizations are all supporting government in combating the pandemic. We have more than about 113,000 civil society organizations that are partnering the government. And, you know, all this has been possible because we worked in collaborative partnership with the civil society, the private sector, everyone together. You asked about R&D initiatives and our view is that right now, Indian pharmaceutical industry is currently valued at about 42 billion US dollars. And we are, our aim is that we should make it a $200 billion segment by 2030 and innovation is required in biopharma segments. We feel that there are moonshot areas such as biosimilars, often drugs, complex generics, vaccines, depression, medicine and antivirals, which have the potential for innovative drug discovery and development. We are looking at ways to incentivize research in biopharma and help India transition from a generic player, a high volume generic player to a high value, high volume player in the global pharma market. And research incentivization will enhance innovation in the country, boost exports and create high-skill employment. And we are also supporting all leading international companies and scientific communities, which have the required technical skills to collaborate with India for R&D in several moonshot areas. We are partnering private sector in R&D and currently, you know, research consortiums have been successful in finding candidates for COVID-19 vaccine and similar strategies will be taken up to drive innovation in drug discovery and development of medical technologies. To further strengthen the research ecosystem, industry and academy are collaborating and we are incentivizing research as well. But my belief is that Indian pharmaceutical sector is private sector driven, the government acts as a facilitator and catalyst and we'll do everything possible to make this a top class sector, the key sector of India's growth and take it to a $200 billion US market by 2030 and we will make innovation the hallmark of this sector. Thank you, Amitabh. Vijay, what's your take on this?  What Amitabh has done is to really comprehensively state what the situation is now in terms of our tech and pharma and biotech industry and what the way forward is. And, you know, that's really beautifully said and one can't add to that. What I will try and do is to address one of the aspects of your question, which is what does one do going ahead in terms of dealing with future pandemics or future new kinds of ways? Now, one important point to be kept in mind, which you mentioned in respiratory pandemics is no matter what the nature of the epidemic or pandemic, high quality filters in buildings and on people can have an immediate impact, particularly on healthcare workers and frontline workers allowing them to attend to the problem. And this is something which we must understand and scale up nationally and globally. Really HEPA filter added masks of various kinds, which can be used immediately and there should be a market risk mitigation or their widespread dissemination is going to be very, very valuable. Similarly, having hospitals and rooms in a manner which can be completely filtered. The second aspect is surge capacity. You know, surge capacity can deal with about 20, 30, 20 percent at most, but not two or three or four fold increase in requirement. So how does one deal with dramatic increase in requirements? There are rapid approaches to repurposing what is already going on in other sectors, which we have seen happen in the pandemic needs to be amplified and honest. The last point I'd like to mention is in the drugs and pharma industry and the biotech industry. Here, we need to mitigate risk enormously and go through widespread trials for different kinds of potential pathogens for epidemics and pandemics, go through phase one and phase two trials and be ready should an outbreak occur or should an epidemic occur to amplify phase three trials very rapidly. This requires global cooperation. This requires enormous investment in R&D. India has the appetite for that because, you know, these are the kinds of epidemics we've learned from this current pandemic where rapid responses needed are regulatory structure finally has to be changed both in India and abroad in a manner where what took years to take decisions routinely now takes place in months and that's something which you've learned from the pandemic and need to embed it going forward. Thank you. Thank you, Vijay. Amitabh and Vijay very nicely elucidated the next steps and the preparedness that we have to have.  You have seen how we are struggling to make enough vaccines in India to cover the population in the first round. I know that you're convinced that we need to work on building enough capacity for stockpiling in the future and I'm sure you'll agree that we need to build surveillance and early warning systems for the future pandemics. So how do you think we should shape up our vaccine strategy in the context of our recent learnings and what you have encountered firsthand in Medanta and how do you kind of build on what we heard from Amitabh and Vijay and it'll be important for us to understand what are those post-COVID opportunities that you see through your lens in R&D and manufacturing and how India could be pushed to seriously focus on innovation and R&D. Narayesh, are you on mute? Yes. Sorry about that. So from a provider point of view, what we experienced and what has already some of it has been alluded to by Mr. Khan and Vijay Raghavan is the point for the first time that in the beginning of the pandemic and through the following year and the second wave, there has been a lot of realization of the interdependence of everybody per se but more specifically between all of our sectors that is government, private, innovators, scientists and India did actually come together very nicely to have reached a point where we actually were quite well prepared for the second wave but the happenings between the first and second wave were such that we invited, we invited a very high wave with a huge velocity and perosity and when people say whose fault is it looking to blame somebody, it's all our fault. We all participated in it and we made it happen. So what are the lessons? One is the point which you alluded to, Amitabh also alluded to that we have, do not have today that early warning system. That early warning system is well established, the concept is well established. We have in India the highest capability of producing IT tracking and connectivity. We have a huge broadband network laid by the government at the last level of the village. So all we need to do and I'm sure it's work in progress right now that this data collection from at real time coming into a war room which can actually sensitize ourselves to say where are the danger points and how fast we can react. Don't forget, we have such a huge population that preparation for that stockpiling for that size of population with the amount and number of variety of things that may occur is a daunting task but we should embark on the journey as soon as possible. And what this virus has thrown at us is a twist and turn and surprise at every level. So where we thought that in the first wave we had established enough infrastructure, enough manufacturing capacity to deal with, even if it was double the size but nobody estimated it before time the size to give you an example. The normal oxygen consumption of the medical delivery system in India, non-pandemic was 2,200 tons a day of liquid oxygen. We reached a peak of 10,000 plus tons a day requirement around the country. And I must say there were very difficult times. We spent three weeks, I did not sleep because we had 550 COVID patients and another 250 non-COVID patients in our hospitals and we were looking at two, three hours of supply and at 750 to 800 slides at stake. So it was very harrowing moment but I must compliment the government which I mean not necessary for me to do but I will that the government actually brought together all the resources with participation from industry, from participation from civil society that we were able to overcome it, we lost some but it could have been much huger if we were not that efficient. So let's put that aside, now preparation for the future. So if you historically the waves come between 30 to 35 weeks. So if that is the pattern that this virus is going to follow as happened in the Spanish too which it did in between the first and second wave and we have some breathing time, we need to look at the things that we could do ASAP to one protect the population from the maladies of what we suffered in the second wave. Second is the point, how do we protect across the board? No matter where they reside, no matter what economics data that they are residing that we can vaccinate, vaccinate and vaccinate. So like Mr. Khan said, we have the capacity to go up to 10 million a day. We can do it between the government and the private sector, we have demonstrated. If we can reach that, we can flatten this wave, this wave, the third wave expectation by almost 70%. So we know there are model modulations already done that if we were able to stuck with only 50,000, 500,000 a day, I mean 50 lakhs sorry, 5 billion a day we will flatten the layer or affect the wave by about 25 plus percent. If we can go up to 7 billion a day, we can flatten it below 50% and if we can reach 10 million a day, we would almost flatten it. So we know that the only other thing that we did, we don't want to happen is what that irresponsible COVID behavior. When we talk about responsible COVID behavior, we need to dig it and enforce it completely and that's in the hands of the government and the public and the private civil society to actually follow the rules which will help India to emerge from this malady impact. Because you know another, we may not be able to bear the third wave if it came with this velocity or even higher because of the economic burden and the human burden that we have seen in all this period. So my point is, yes, we need to innovate, we need to create that ecosystem and we must realize it's very easy to say the banner, but research development R&D comes from an ecosystem unless we develop that whole entire ecosystem, we will not be able to be able to really succeed to the level we want to. So we need to look at all the peripheral aspects of supporting R&D and hopefully in the next five years, we would have reached our goal and start full steam to reach that goal of 30, which Amitabh just talked about. So I think India has all the means, India needs to bring in discipline, India needs to bring in the sensing systems of early warnings and also at the same time build a robust R&D system which requires money, which requires the whole ecosystem so the government can actually support hugely in this effort. Thank you. Thank you Nareesh. Thank you very much. Now let me go to Dilip. Dilip, while you can comment on the same point that you heard from, you heard the comments from Amitabh, Vijay and Nareesh, but I'll be very keen to also get your perspective on yet another concept. Many global pharma companies are now seeking to provide equitable access of their innovative drugs through voluntary licensing in India. As an operational CEO of a large pharma company, how do you encourage, how do you think we should encourage more companies and potential licenses to provide broader access to innovative drugs for Indian patients? What would be your recommendations on streamlining the pharmaceutical regulatory process? Thank you Sanat and I think it's been an interesting discussion. You asked very thought-provoking questions. I believe that both Mr. Kanth as well as Mr. Vijay Rajwan have responded to the focus that we as a country have for innovation and how we have managed our pandemic. If I look at as an outsider, then I mean not from medical fraternity. I think two things kind of came out very clearly. One is the speed with which Indian industry responded to the sudden upsurge in the demand for many drugs which were required for treatment of COVID, where in a period of less than four weeks from shortage, products became available off the shelf. Products like industry as well as let's say other drugs used in treatment of COVID. Dr. Trihan talked about the challenge we faced as a country in terms of providing for oxygen and I think he has far more data than what I have. But what I think I can talk about from industry point of view is that many pharmaceutical companies including Sun Pharma, all of us use nitrogen generation plant in our factories and we converted seven of our nitrogen generation plant into oxygen generation plants and shared that with the local hospitals thereby I believe that if all of them have cumulative capacity providing oxygen to more than 1500 patients on a non-wave basis. So I think I saw a clear mix of pragmatic government action at the same point of time. They concerted what you call industry and societal response to the challenge that we faced. I think if many Indians were settled abroad they also sent in a lot of essential treatment options for I believe you were part of one thing to send so many things which were required for patients in India. So I think my belief is that we've managed the first, second wave of pandemic quite well. We're now from a peak of more than 400,000 patients cases every day. We're now less than 50,000 in a period of less than maybe six or seven weeks. So that's a significant reduction and reflects the concerted effort of the government as well as the state governments. Finally I think our industry question you asked is very relevant in a discussion like this because ultimately innovation is what will help us overcome the diseases which are currently inadequately treated and help provide better treatment options for patients. And I think voluntary license is an extremely useful tool for ensuring that the drugs which are required for treating patients, how do we improve the access to those drugs by licensing in many cases at very low royalty or almost more royalty to the industry. As a company Sanfarma I think because we closely work with large number of international companies we have been able to license or we have been a licensee of all the voluntary licenses which companies have given. We've licensed products from Gilead, we've licensed a product for treatment of COVID from Lili and recently I think we also licensed a product from Merck where Merck decided to license this product to eight companies and for the first time in the country I think all of these companies are doing a joint clinical development so that this product can be registered fast in India. I believe that to maintain the future investment in research companies and industry needs to be assured of fair return on their investment but at the same time if some drugs are essential for treating any pandemic or a disease which where access is important a voluntary license will continue to encourage this future investment. We are working with the government to see that because eight is a big number so if there are eight companies marketing this and Lili is also licensed they are very certainly up to six or seven companies so that will ensure easy access to drugs. Hopefully I think we will be able to work with the government to ensure that only voluntary licenses are governed what you call availability of product and not through compulsory license because I believe that compulsory license issued even though only once in the past gives India and Indian companies a bad international name and it needs to be protected at next. Thank you, thank you Vijay, thank you very much. So we got the opportunity to ask this panel questions now let's take the opportunity of going to the audience and ask a few questions get a few questions from the from the audience. There are quite a few important guests we have in the audience so I don't know if they're all on Chris Wiebacher managing partner good net point capital Chris can you hear me? I can thank you Senat and if you can state your question or comment and direct it to a single panelist or you'd like any one of them to comment please state that too thank you Chris please go ahead. Yeah thank you so I have been involved in the global COVAX initiative so I'm looking at this on a more global scale one of the things that we have seen that China and Russia have actually been able to ramp up production of vaccine very significantly and what we see is that the pandemic is not only a health crisis but certain countries are using their vaccine manufacturing in exchange for trade and other geopolitical influence. It's kind of surprising because I would have thought that India would be first out of the gates. Is India now looking at what can India really do to really increase its global vaccine manufacturing which would include having its vaccines registered not only with the WHO under the pre-qualifying mechanism but perhaps the EMA and FDA because there seems to be a huge opportunity for India really to not just serve its own population but to become a global player in the geopolitics of what's going on. Amitabh, Vijay, would you all like to take any one of you? So let me say that our view is that this is not just a pandemic and this is likely to become endemic and therefore India needs to actually build up capacity to produce about 300 million doses a month and that means that we should be able to vaccinate our entire population every four months and then be able to build capacity to export vaccines across the world. Not merely be a powerhouse to meet the needs for the domestic market but look at exporting across the world and that is why we have a range of vaccines presently other than Covaxin and Covishir which is being manufactured by Serum Institute and Bharat Biotech doing Covaxin. We have a range of new vaccines which are coming into India and you have e-biological tie-up with Johnson and Johnson, you have Covaxin with Novavax which Serum Institute is doing, you have Zidas Cadillac coming in with their vaccine which is going to be like soon so we have actually 12 different candidates of vaccines coming in and our expectation is that by December we would have been, we should have been producing, we would have produced close to about close to about 1300 to 1400 million of these COVID vaccines and my personal vision is that India will end up once it has populated, once it has inoculated its own population India will end up exporting to the rest of the world. In fact not merely exporting but it is already exported. India is probably the only country which has demonstrated that you can't be safe if till everybody is not safe and therefore India has actually exported a lot of the vaccines produced in India to other parts of the world and our view is that this is a global fight and globally we have to fight to save the entire humanity. Even one person with COVID in any part of the world will actually be spreading it to other parts of the world. This is not a fight for India producing vaccine, it's about the entire world producing vaccines to save the global humanity and the global community and therefore India will do its best. Indian entrepreneurs are totally top class as far as vaccine manufacturing is concerned. We've been the vaccine factory of the world and we will continue to make manufacturing, continue to innovate, continue to partner with other vaccine manufacturers and continue to enhance our production capacity not only for India but for the rest of the world. Thank you Amitabh. There are two other questions from the audience without and we don't have much time so let me go over to those questions. The next one is from Alka Goyal founding partner Alchemy Growth Capital. Alka can you hear me? Yes I can thank you thank you so much for this opportunity and it's been a very reflective and engaging session so thank you Sanab. Just a little bit of my background so that you understand my vantage point I spent 17 years at McKinsey working in very large companies and now I am running a fund in health and wellness in India so really close to the ground floor on innovation in India just as an example we make three new companies in health care and wellness every week. So my question is actually for Mr. Sanghvi and Dr. Trehan what are the areas that you see technology will have a huge impact from your operating model? Where are you most worried and what are the plans you're making in your businesses to use technology so that we can shape and disrupt health care in the future? Thank you Alka. So one thing that we have seen is a transformation of our entire working model from what we thought would take five seven years to do in the digitization process in the remote delivery space that it all got compressed in a few months. So today just to give you an example pre-COVID we used to do about 100 consultations teleconcerts or video consults with patients remotely. Today we are doing upwards of 700 a day so across all specialties so we see I mean sometimes it becomes very demanding in the sense that as I'm talking to you my secretary just handed me a huge pile of consultations I still have to do through the night. So it has changed no question and it has changed in two ways one of course the multiplier effect that one expert can talk to people anywhere in the country or anywhere in the world. Two it saves the patients so typically if you look at my practice they would have to come with their angiogram pay a visit you'd advise them they'll go home and they would travel from a thousand kilometers or more and they would then you give them a date and they would come and then so it was a huge burden on them time wise effort wise money wise. Today we look at it we are face to face we tell them what we think is the right procedure for them and they come they get a date and they come prepared with everything so you know all these things have made a big difference to give relief from the patient's point of view from medicine point of view it has increased the efficacy and safety for patients like we are doing EICUs so today the multiplier effect of one ICU expert to 10 other ICUs to make rounds with them in the every day is a huge relief so that's one thing that has actually happened now of course we know that AI deep learning virtual reality augmented reality all these things were in the horizon but today all of them have been activated so at that end there is the IT space the other is that how do we increase the safety of the patient as we move forward so there is a lot of innovation we are partnering with with the with companies the startups with biotech companies to say where can we do together development of new modalities to increase the safety of the patient and second is how to to compress research like you see what happened with the vaccine development we know that we are faced with huge challenges by way of not only viruses are transforming bacteria is also transforming and more and more of them will need faster and faster discovery of drugs to handle very serious infections as the population grows older these demands will become much more so I can go on and on and on but no question the face of where we practice medicine where we service patients and the way we look at technology has had a huge transformation that's the upside of this whole malady that we are experiencing thank you Naresh if you don't mind I want to go over to the next question because you're running short of time and this is from Robert Khaliff head of clinical policy and strategy verily and google health Robert can you hear me yes I can hear you just fine can you hear me yes I can please go ahead great so I guess this has been a great discussion I know we're short on time so I'll just ask it quickly obviously you know we're contending with this enormous pandemic and it's been a great discussion of how innovation has made a difference there but we have an even larger wave of chronic disease which is affecting both the US and India you know we're seeing a decline in life expectancy in the US year after year now for six out of the last seven years while India has this enormous population uh coming into the phase of of chronic disease what what are the lessons that have been learned that can be applied to chronic disease from the pandemic I know the time is short so quick answers I know are needed yeah Vijayan to Naresh perhaps this is up your alley well I'll be very very brief so that Naresh can add on from a clinical perspective very simply the idea of chronic disease has got two components one lifestyle and should there be disease then you know delivery of care both require the first requires massive communication and changes in lifestyle to a healthier one the second requires delivery of personalized medicine which in the west is extremely expensive and we need to work out ways to our major national digital health mission other missions to make sure that we can deliver personalized health care in a few go prugal manner that that really is feasible we've learned that you heard from Naresh about some examples but scaling that up will really address chronic disease also Naresh so the seeds of chronic disease are laid from childhood the way the whole thing about building a country's health system was to build that stack and I must say that in the current dispensation from the government the creation of the concept of Ayushma has roots which can actually make a big difference at the ground level so in India of course there's a double opportunity chronic diseases which are lifestyle and chronic diseases which are due to lack of civic amenities so we need to work on both ends Rob and we need to we from this primary health center concept which we call the wellness center once we have enough network we would have actually been able to improve the sanitation the hygiene the nutrition on the ground which is the building block now if you're on the other hand as as we are saying today we are looking at medicine as not only curative not only early detection but preventive and predictive so the question really is when we get to the sophistication of predictive medicine and apply it to our population at large we would have actually made a big difference in the evolving chronic diseases so I think all this thing is in the planning how effectively we execute this is going to be the proof of the pudding thank you thank you very much is any other question anybody else has but thank you all very much it was it was a very good discussion and I really thank the panelists and as I said necessity is the mother of invention we have seen India do a lot of things in the last many years and I'm quite sure in the next years we will see India rising up to the challenge and leading from the front also in the area of innovation thank you all very much thank you thank you Sanat uh wonderful conversation can you put the slide please can you put the polling slide yeah thank you Sanat for a wonderful uh you know excellent you know in depth panel over there can you put the polling slide the poll is now open for a minute please go ahead and start polling we are running bit late so we try to make it up we overshot this panel by seven minutes we have about 40 minutes 40 seconds left question is what does India need to do ensure it is better prepared for the next pandemic we have 30 seconds left it's like a very exciting question the poll is going to end soon thank you the poll has ended we'll see you after four minutes the concept of medanta the desire to build it came from the fact India needed its own institution which would provide the best treatment available anywhere in the world there are four billion people who are in the same shape as indias and if you are going to try to keep copy become a copycat of the western medicine which the americans can't afford themselves it is important for us to develop our own medicine develop therapies equally effective a half the cost pursuant to this vision the medanta research unit is nested within the 1250 beret hospital and conducts clinical trials at a proof of concept phase one unit evaluating vaccines for malaria chicken and several studies in cancer therapies including dendritic cell and immunotherapies phase two clinical trials are of immense interest to expedite access to innovative therapies and the unit also conducts clinical trials for stem cell therapies for cardiac and vascular use newer dressings for reconstructive surgery new drugs and devices team has access also to half a million pathological blocks for biomarker work the recently inaugurated HIPAA compliant tissue repository is currently focusing on breast cancer and rare parathyroid cancers the research team has access to over 3500 outpatient visits 900 hospital admissions and over 75 surgeries a day in this tertiary care hospital several clinical databases and registries have been created and we are the highest asian recruiters in the international registries for aortic dissection we have existing hospital-based vector-borne disease registries and are part of the national cancer grid and the national cancer registries this makes enrollment of patients into clinical trials quick and efficient the research team is also working towards creation of a gcp compliant clinical trial network and has expanded to geographically cover all of india immense focus is on patient safety, antibiotic stewardship and development of clinical decisions support systems we are taking research to the villages through public health programs using various innovations and telemedicine in cancer tuberculosis and vector-borne diseases teams are busy also conducting research in ayurveda looking at well designed randomized controlled trials for classical and proprietary medicine whether for viral diaries or for covid-19 in order to break the barriers to integrating traditional systems of medicine into modern care hello everybody and welcome back sanat big big thanks to you and to the entire panel on india innovation so if we could please bring up the polling question let's see what our audience had to say to the last poll depend on mine and i'm just gonna make that larger on my screen so i can see it there we go sorry there we go so the question that all of you addressed was what does india need to do to better ensure its preparedness for the next pandemic and there was a clear answer with only 50 almost 50 of you thinking believing that in order for india to be better prepared it needs to improve vaccine deployment infrastructure so thank you very much for participating in our poll and as mentioned earlier we will continue with these polling questions throughout the day


nd uh, there are a lot of different models for this. So, um If you are like, oh, but what if we we don't know how to have a relationship with an open source project Or we don't know how to have um, you know, what kinds of guidelines we should set up for our Our employees on participating and contributing to upstream Luckily, you do not have to reinvent the wheel. This has all been figured out before there are plenty of other companies probably your direct competitors or Doing very similar things. So there's a lot of there's a lot of uh, writing on governance out there again You do not have to reinvent the wheel. Um, you could probably tomorrow find like an example of Here's our policy for having employees Uh, contribute to open source projects that fits your business model so, um So then we're gonna do the 10 cent tour. So, uh It's a very interesting time to be in. So when I started this we were just starting to be like, oh, these patents are a problem I was like 10 years ago and then it like Now now it's like, oh, aren't we almost done? There's almost solved or whatever Yes and no um, so There's a couple of different things. So, uh We have had some federal patent reform already and we may yet still have more there's a couple different um, a couple different ideas going on. Uh, some of them are, um Fees shifting where the idea is that trolls there wouldn't be as much incentive to sue companies if When they lose the company gets paid back for their legal fees from the troll That that makes sense everyone. Okay. Uh, so that's one of the ideas some of the other ideas are, um Making it so that you have to do a better job of Disclosing the real party in interest. So remember I talked about practicing entities that have like a uh, You know, like if it was like the Depp Nicholson corporation and I'd be like, oh, no, no, no That's not me. That's the pebb Nicholson corporation. They just happen to have a license on all my patents But some of the reform that's being discussed is I would have to be like, yeah, okay I'm the sole owner of pebb Nicholson to be honest So, uh, so that's one thing and then also being clear about like what types of patents you're suing on Like so you can't just say like it seems like you have some technology that we have some patents on And there are like letters that don't really disclose anymore than that Like they might say just a little bit like, yeah, we have some scanning technology patents and you scan So I was like, what what is that? Um, but some letters don't say what activity the defendant is engaging in that is supposedly infringing on patents So someone those are some of the ideas at the federal level some of the stuff about the uh disclosing the real party in interest and Saying the patent that's actually being sued on and saying the activity the defendant is supposedly engaging in there that they're getting sued for Different states have been trying to pass legislation that would address different parts of that None of them have been able to do so much of the fee shifting unfortunately That's seen as something that would happen to have to happen at the federal level so another thing that's an interesting opportunity for uh, you know Dealing with some of the furthest and overly broad patents is interpartis review So this is when a patent that already exists and is crummy you go and you say like I noticed this patent It's crummy and I would like to tell the us pto to look at it again and please do their job this time and um This this is a great tool. It's not cheap to use. You still need to hire people and pay some fees to us pto to have them Look at things um We also did a huge uh case last year, uh, alice versus cls bank Which invalidated a lot of patents we think but you can still be sued by a patent a patent That would not make it through a court case Because the only way to know if it would make it through a court case is to have it do that actual process so Some of the estimates are that um as many as like 80 percent of the software patents that are currently on the books Would be bogus if they were taken to court tomorrow Of course, that's really expensive 80 of 200 000 Software patents on the books that we would have to go to court and look at so um So there's still a lot of patents out there and that's expensive to challenge them whether in court or by asking the us pto to Take a look at them So strategies and resources Uh communication is key. Uh, this is one of the You know, we we kind of touched on this at the beginning like leading with the uh business interest as opposed to leading uh with the Why freedom is the best when you're talking to your employer depending on your employer, of course But communication is you you have to tell them what you actually want to do as a business model So if what you intend to monetize like if you're you're you're envisioning like maybe you're going to run Like some kind of a service.  That's all we need So if that's the case then tell your lawyer that so you can't they can't give you advice on what type of licensing to choose or um, you know, how to think about How encumbered with patents your spaces unless you give them all the information So you want to hear pretty thorough like this is this is what I envision us doing This is where I envision the money coming from and this is the way I envision us interacting with the community So you want to be really clear about that uh, and timing is everything of You cannot go in on friday night and say we're going to release this code on monday sometime If you just take a look at it over the weekend to make sure licenses are cool No, that is that is the you will almost certainly get no they're not That is that is the only answer that you will get in that time frame. So, uh, I would say that earlier you start involving The person you want to have review your licensing plans the better So you want to let them know like here's our new project Here are some of the technologies that we're hoping to incorporate Here's the code base that we hope people are going to be linking our stuff up with Here's the way that we want to be interacting with the community and you know at every step of the way if it changes It's like, oh, it turns out we're not going to do a new sql. It looks like it was going to be easy But it's kind of annoying or whatever it is So you want to keep them apprised at every single step of the process And then again the great listening skills are going to help you seal the deal so If you use some of those arguments that I talked about at the beginning like oh It's free and then you like to skid her off into transparency and your boss says she's like did you say free Just like like no money So then you might want to just keep pressing on that point, you know But the idea is to be responsive and and how to be a dialogue You don't want to come in and read from a set of cards or or this slide presentation even For your boss you can use this if you think monkeys will help at your workplace So um So I hope that you'll uh jump in. I hope that you'll Go out and talk to your employer about using more free software at work Whether that's in tooling or whether that's in your actual products and stuff and uh that you will go ahead and You know get them more invested contribute to upstream. Maybe get them to host a meet up at your office It's great. Uh, it will help you get more happy employees And um, you know and we'll build bigger greater things, right? So these are a couple of organizations that want to help you do free software stuff Uh the fsf they have a faq about their licenses the open invention network where I work Which we would love to have you sign on for the less suing if you're into less suing. We're into you um software freedom concerns you which is working to um Police the licenses and make sure that people don't abuse them It's uh, if you think of the copy left code as a commons making sure that everyone uses that responsibly osi has a another slice of list of free and open source licenses that you can take a look at and they have some They have their own ideas and thoughts about like how some of those interact with each other and So these are all great resources. Uh patchy of course has a lot of information about their own license. So uh Find a buddy and uh, and I hope that you will get involved in free software Uh, oh, I meant to put that the other way around but if you do like reading these kinds of things, uh, this was um Uh that first one uh ces just like two weeks ago there was an amazing panel on patents and um fixing our broken innovation system with The new head of us tto did an intro on it and then they had um someone from qualcomm and uh a politician um Darryl Eiffa who has submitted some legislation on patent reform It kind of starts out really polite and then it like It gets no hold barred as you go along. So if you want to know like why the policy uh landscape is kind of Mind field that panel will give you uh like that one hour later. You'll know you'll know exactly why it's a total mess Um, if you want to uh share how to make money from open source platforms There's a four part series by john mark walker who was at red hat at the time on linux.com Uh talking about like why the red hat model is reproducible and uh, you know So we talked about that a little bit and why uh, some of the other models when people think oh, we're just like red hat We have community and we have different versions of code. That's enough, right? It's A little more complicated than that than that and he goes really into it and then um, like I said, if you like reading academic papers about uh patent trolls and stuff Colleen Chen is great and then uh, julio samuels who she was at EFF and now she's um At her own organization and has been looking at the legislation that might impact the scope of patent ability Especially for software. So so these are all um, if you like this topic then you will enjoy looking at these Uh, of course, it wouldn't be a legal talk without all of the credits And then I would be more than happy to take your questions. Thanks.  I'm sorry. The question was is there a line on which parts you open and which Parts you don't um In general if you Uh, are trying to give something away and hope that it will make people want to buy something from you Uh, what you give away should not be crappy So if you're if you're uh, if your business model is we will make a crappy version of something And hopefully that will attract people to want to give us money for another version of it That's not that business model is not going to work out for you. Um If you People have had more success with we gave away something that people actually wanted and then there are a couple little add-ons that are proprietary Uh, although, you know, it depends on the space and what your users are like Uh as to how well that works. I'm not a super fan of proprietary software So I'm maybe not the best person asked for advice on how to mix and match but um But there there is some stuff about like business models that And mix and matches that don't work in that piece there Does that help a little bit? Yes Right, so it depends on what your business model is if you're using an old style kind of like, you know Microsoft have five years ago business model then you may kind of have already painted yourselves into a corner but if you're looking to kind of I mean it's You can only prop up a older business model with Technical constraints for so long eventually people will find a way Around it and or just find another thing to use. So, um If you're trying really hard to get people to pay for something that they really really don't want to pay for See like cord cutters They will figure out a way to not pay for it whether it means getting it from someone else or not doing it so, um, I guess the idea is to kind of talk with your CEO about Looking at newer business models and why some of the traditional companies that have never used open source before Are starting to use them and why they're opening up and doing that So that's you know without knowing too much more about your specific situation That's what I would say is that if you're if your business model relies on trying to get people to do something that don't want to do then you might want to start moving to other business models So yeah Yeah, you're still going to know your code the best and so if you're selling code plus something And you think that people mostly want the other something whether that's hardware or service or you know access to the platform then Yeah, you're the expertise that you have because you wrote it is always going to override someone who forks it and starts to try Use it tomorrow Other questions The green lantern has no questions Okay, good to know um, if you Have questions that you didn't want to ask in front of the oh, sorry. I'm on the wrong direction here Uh, if you have questions that you didn't want to ask in front of the group I'm uh debit open invention network. You can always ask me stuff In that regard as I said, I'm not a lawyer. So, um, You know, I won't give you free legal advice This is not a backdoor to free legal advice, but I can point you at some other resources Uh, if there's something else, yeah Okay, so for the recording if there is one, um Der Hunts has said that the uh, the freeze and freedom obcast is another place for pedantic but accessible conversation on free software legal topics and And you and you can use it. It's usually tagged pretty well like every five minutes like what the topic was it's covered So if you are looking to get another perspective on something specific, it's pretty searchable and easy to find The uh episode where they discussed that topic Anything else to add or ask or Okay, awesome. Thanks so much for coming Dustin hey, that actually works. All right. Welcome everybody We're about to start off the next session and like to tell you a little bit about our next speaker We have John Hawley who's uh led the system administration team on colonel.org for nearly a decade um, his other work includes, uh, working on syslinux open ssi A caching git web and patches to bind to enable godmf He is the author of a pxc knife I'm about pronouncing it correctly and and a set of interfaces around common utilities And diagnostic tools that are needed by your average systems engineer now, um, he's also worked on sync diff and Which is a faithful full file synchronizer and a file transfer mechanism He's currently working for intel on their open hardware and the minnow board Please help me to welcome john Well, I thank you all for coming to literally the last session of the last day of scale. You must all be Yes, this this may actually be the best session if for no other reason while the title says Failure is half the fun of success. The real answer is this is the john hawley story hour It's where where i'm basically going to tell you everything i've ever seen done wrong And how it all ended up probably for the best in the long run So I gave this talk um, a few months ago down in guadalajara actually And I really had the intention of going down there and talking to them about Uh, that it was actually okay to fail, you know, we you know even up here and you know everywhere we have this perception that um Failure is like the ultimate thing that we can do wrong and that you know once we've failed It's just the end of the world, you know, everyone hates me, you know, you might as well throw everything in the trash and um The reality is is that's not actually true, you know failure is You know failure is a step in a process. It is um the only reason that you would actually genuinely fail is if you stop the process um You know when we when we fail What we need to do what we really need to learn and what we need to do is Learn to keep going learn to figure out why you failed what went wrong What you can do better next time or just quite literally how you can fix what's already broken And in some cases, you know, and most of this talk is just going to be about You know things that have gone wrong that or that i've seen gone wrong before And that no it's okay for you to fail as well Because i'm not perfect. You're not perfect It's all good to a case in point Uh up there on the screen. I've got a little robot That uh, I uh I ended up building a few years years ago. Um, you can't quite see it because uh the Room's a little washed out and I did not think to actually lighten my slide Which is hilarious because you know, I uh Mentioned that to someone this morning as one of the failures of projectors but um You know one of the things that uh that I did with this robot was I had never built a robot before You know, I was a low-level systems programmer by trade And uh, I'd never built a robot and I said it. I'm just going to build k9 from dr. Who And uh, you know, I I I didn't think about this too much and I just started plowing straight in To say that I bit off more than I could chew was a bit of an understatement and uh Started with a box of parts and God, you really can't see is there any way we can dim some of the lights Because I mean, I know for the folks who are you know, going to be on the video stream This is going to look fantastic. But um, those of you here in the room. You can't even tell how how ridiculously jumbled Yeah, I I don't think it's going to work You know what? The slides will be online if you want to come look at them afterwards fine.   And So slowly but surely I started putting those parts together testing what was going on I did not actually chop that in half with my chop saw thankfully um But everything was a trial and error process. You know, I knew that I um Wasn't quite sure what was going on. I didn't know exactly how all of these pieces were going to go together And in fact, you know for things like these tank treads that I was using there wasn't even good documentation Uh, because you know to do up tank treads.  Well, they didn't So you had two choices one you could try and figure out the math Which is actually slightly more complex than you would think Or you could just start drilling holes and hope that you get it right I chose option two Unsurprisingly And I just started building things And I did not get it right on the first try. I did not get it right on the second try I did not get it right on the fifth try the sixth try You know after you you know built your castles one on top of each other in a swamp It stood it's it actually worked and um I actually got a mostly working robot And uh, this is uh chassis version number Six actually this is exactly chassis number version six And as you can see there's a whole pile of wires and there's this computer involved and then I burnt out the computer That was running the whole thing So even though I had made it, you know, oh so far built a robot It still failed And you know after you you know spend all this time building this chassis you burn out a robot you go Your options are you can either laugh you can cry and or and or you can laugh and uh move on or you can cry and give up and Unsurprisingly, I just laughed it off Accepted that uh that I had failed or that I had had a problem that I needed to fix it Change some stuff out And eventually got a fully working, you know after substantially more trial and error Got a fully working robot that has been around the world a couple of times now The interesting problem with that particular dog is uh, he was here at scale last year.  He's actually in the audience. He's pointing at himself Uh, uh, was it 140 dollars in parts? Or was it three? No, it was 140 dollars in parts give or take Um, including buying a new multimeter Uh Came back wired him back up and he was actually running around for the rest of the conference And it's hard to it's hard to claim that There hasn't been anything that hasn't failed on that particular robot I mean robots are one of those things where once you start building them There is nothing that will ever work right on a robot robots are constantly broken Be it's you know, if you look up robot in the definition definition It's you know autonomous vehicle and or always broken And actually I'm kind of curious. How many of you have actually built a robot? Anybody Okay, a couple of you. So, you know, I'm at least speaking to the crowd that the robot's oh No killing the robot doesn't count No kids don't count.  Just start biting off more than you can chew Start looking at what's going on around the world and go look. I just want to build a robot And don't build, you know, a teeny tiny little robot build something or do something that's Dramatically outside of your reach Don't expect to actually succeed at it, but pick something that's dramatically outside of your reach And I'm suggesting this for one simple fact is the the more and faster you fail At what you're working on the more you're going to learn And the faster you're failing the more the faster you're learning And that's kind of what happened with this particular robot But this is not the only instance of uh People failing and having to learn from uh their mistakes The dog um in its first adventure Actually ended up going to edinborough in scotland Two years ago a little bit more than two years ago and it raced against the octoblimp And for those of you who are watching this May know that Beth Flanagan was the operator of that particular blimp It's actually a very nice blimp. Um at the end of the day Ways substantially less than the dog You know flies around And we decided to have a little bit of a bet That uh the dog could uh outrace the blimp or that the blimp could outrace the dog Pige's uh belief was that the miracle of flight would by far outstrip anything that uh some land-based silly dog thing could do Well, she learned a very very valuable lesson. Um the day that uh The race took place As the blimp as you can vaguely see in the the uh screenshot there immediately creamed out of control Everybody's got you know, I see a couple laptops and I'm sure you guys have cell phones in the audience. Um How are you getting networked to those devices? You know, you're connected to the internet. How are you getting internet? Scales wi-fi What usually not in the case of scale thankfully does not work at a conference Particularly a tech conference the wi-fi Most conventions that you go to that are technical people show up with Anywhere between three and eight devices that will uh be connected to the network Um, there are some very large conferences uh that happen in vegas Uh that I know of that they plan on eight devices per person and they're still underestimating in most cases Mostly because there's various people who then you know, they pull out a laptop two laptop three laptop five laptop You know two phones and half a dozen other things but taunting the demo gods with wi-fi or networks in the general sense is always a bad idea And so I I diverge on this little rant about wi-fi for one very specific reason What's the worst control protocol to use for your uh drone at a conference? wi-fi Uh Beth did not actually build um most of the blimp She uh passed all of this work off to an intern The intern thought that the most brilliant way to deal with the communications protocol between Uh for the control protocol for the the the blimp was to use a point-to-point wireless link And uh, you know the and throughout the week Uh or several days before this race happened, you know the blimp would be up and it'd be flying around and she can control it reasonably well without a whole lot of problems But that but you can kind of well as I nearly fall off the uh the stage That would have been a failure. I could have talked about Um as you can see there are several hundred people in this room now Who have all pulled out their cell phones and are taking picture and video When you wake a cell phone up the first thing it does it starts talking to the network So as soon as the race started everybody whips out their phone and anything in the 2.4 gigahertz spectrum became an unusable mess Thus the blimp careening off into control and nearly killing people so A an obvious lesson was learned or reminded of at that point, which is wi-fi is not a good control protocol when it's mission critical and you know and um What's interesting about that is that I have I made a similar decision with the dog In that I needed a remote control protocol for the robot And I had thought about this. Well, let's use wi-fi. No, wait a minute wi-fi is a bad idea wi-fi for control protocols On robots is always a bad idea, particularly if you actually intend to take it to a conference So I chose something that made a little more sense and that and that actually ended up being an xbox 360 controller Because someone actually went through and did a ridiculous amount of planning For these controllers to work in a really nasty rf or 2.4 gigahertz rf environment They do spread spectrum. They bounce it all over the channel map But strangely enough your xbox 360 controller almost always absolutely works. It doesn't matter how messy the the spectrum is That's my backup controller for the dog And it worked So a lesson was learned problems were seen lessons were learned The blimp did not quite do that Although we can't actually find the blimp now, so I can't entirely confirm that that may not have happened after the fact but um Yeah Things went wrong We learned from them That's what wi-fi looks like at a conference. I'm apparently I should apparently be like You know hitting my slides more often. I keep forgetting what's up here Um, but yeah, that you know, that's what wi-fi looks like at a conference. The bus is the blimp. I wasn't going to point that out but yes Most uh commercial drones that are available in the market use the 2.4 gigahertz spectrum Some of them actually use directly wi-fi Please don't fly them at a conference We'll just we'll just leave that there. Just don't don't fly them at a conference. We don't need uh We don't need that At conferences fire is bad Just don't do it And the helicopters do way substantially more. This is kind of you know another picture of the the blimp cleaning off and nearly killing people Although speaking of drones um After the uh the incident with the the blimp I was effectively challenged by pidge that Well, she participated in the miracle of flight. So technically she won she won the race I contest that particular uh statement And although our bet was that I got bragging rights for a year or two years later or two and a half years later I guess i'm still bragging about it So I guess I've also broken that portion of the bet But uh, so I said screw that let's put a minnow board in flight And I started actually just taking a commercial off-the-shelf drone And bolting a minnow board to it and doing in-flight computer vision processing So actually had the minnow board feeding information back into an uh an existing flight computer This actually worked pretty well And as you can see that drone, uh, that's down there. It's a pretty sizable drone. It's about about yay big Blade spin at several thousand rpm each one of them is about this long So when things go wrong they can go really really really really badly.  I had one particular incident. Um in the last year where it crashed And it crashed pretty spectacularly You know, um There are two times in an air in an airframe Uh existence that are the most dangerous uh times in its life Takeoff and landing In this case they were both the same thing During takeoff, uh one of the rotors flew off literally From the airframe At which point the the entire airframe became unbalanced and instead of you know throttling up and I'm letting everything stabilize. I did the incredibly smart thing of cutting all the power So it's about this far off the ground. I cut all the power It then falls immediately everything rolls and you know half the blades all break off So again More failures, but the drone's back up and running.  Do you have you ever thought about the miracle Of what happens to get from when you hit the save button on something or the commit button To that those bits actually ending up on a hard drive And then the ability to pull that all back out in the same order in which they were put in If you're a storage person This is what keeps this entire idea is what keeps you up at night because this shouldn't work There are so many moving pieces. There are so many Points of failure in this whole thing that it just honestly should not work And and and then you start thinking about you know multi disk arrays and you know petabytes of disk and you know Most people curl up under the chair and cry because it's just mind-boggling So how many of you have actually pushed a commit that deleted everything Apparently gen twos deleted everything at least once Or how many of you have accidentally hit rm minus rf on something that's like the most precious thing possible Backups are great. Aren't they and this is the point I'm sorry Oh rm. Oh alias to rf minus rf. Oh, yeah aliases are yeah bad. Yeah And they're done that undid that alias So um, yeah storage is one of those things where everybody You everybody depends on it everybody absolutely depends on it But but it is one of the most fragile things in the world and if you look around there are stories everywhere of somebody Accidentally screwing everything up. In fact, there's some stories from the google summer of code students There's actually a Fantastic story from one of the python students. I don't think it was I think it was last year of the year before was the last year Where, you know, they had been working on their code.   They actually went through the entire process fixed the repository back to a completely good state And they moved on with life And if you think about this most students, I mean google summer of code is all students in uh college These are, you know, a lot of, um You know folks who have never even had to deal with source control let alone been given enough Control, you know control or a responsibility to push something that is, you know used by hundreds of thousands of people And you know to be given all of this in one go and to screw it up You know most people would immediately curl up into a ball under a table and you know, they They'd go and become the hermit that you know You know sit in the that the watchtowers for forests and never touch a computer again Um by screwing up like this, but the student, you know, my hat goes off to them They not only, you know did all you know screwed up Stick, you know had a plan for fixing it by the time they um Let anybody know fixed it, but then they had the um brilliance to write a blog post about what happened So they they not only fessed up to it. They told everyone what they did and they shared their story And you know of all the things in the world. That's probably one of the most courageous things i've ever seen is just admitting I asked up on such an epic level and yet I want to tell everybody it's okay They didn't get in trouble, you know, they had a plan they fixed it screwing up is okay Screwing up and not fixing it or completely walking away.  You can't figure out how to fix it. You give up and you know To some uh, to some extent that this is what this talk is about is screwing up is okay We all do it. We've all done it some of us substantially more than others If you know my background at all, I had a very exciting later half of uh, uh, 2011 Um where I had probably the yeah, may I have a software notification? There we go Um later half of the I had a very exciting later half of 2011 If you ever want to look that up or want to talk to me offline about that I will Fly very deeply and tell you my sorted story um But uh, yeah, I mean the people screw up Sometimes it's really epic I'm going to get back. I'm going to go back in my history a little bit Back to my second job out of university Worked for a company called Orion Multisystems They made These very pretty compute clusters This is 12 full computers hacked onto a single pcb. The pcb is this big I'm not I'm not actually joking for those of you who make hardware The pcb is 48 layers thick to put this into perspective most high-end motherboards Are 8 to 12 layers thick This is the equivalent of taking 12 You know just stacks of motherboards and smushing them into a single pcb At the time And I believe to date this is the largest and most complex pcb That flex tronics has ever done I believe they also swore at the time when they were manufacturing this that they would never do that again so When you start looking at something that's literally this big and complex There's a lot that can go in fact there's a lot that can go wrong even in the manufacturing process In one case we had we were doing bring up on a board. We were doing some testing it everything was going great Unbeknownst to us at the time there was an air pocket in one of the power planes Guess what happens when you put Air near a very um high temperature power source Not only did it expand It exploded and well Effectively you create an oxygen rich environment in which all you need Is a spark which oh hey look there's a lot of power right there Go figure Flames literally shot out the side of the board Needless to say that one was dead But in that failure, you know, we had spent, you know thousands, you know, you know thousands of dollars for that single board And that one failure I mean there are failures of hardware in small companies and we were a small company that could have ruined us Well, thankfully that one didn't We died for other reasons but um You know, we didn't you know, it didn't stop anybody But you know sometimes you end up with a failure or a screw up That is, you know in retrospect kind of funny, you know You don't usually see fire coming out of the edge of a board. It's kind of pretty Really hard to recreate But we did a lot of really fantastic things with this particular compute system. It was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination You know, we had 12 computers on on this board and literally 12 computers North bridge south bridge Ethernet memory each one of these I mean it's You know, if you look down here This is a full computer It's about that big there are 12 sets of this on the motherboard along with two ethernet Or two full ethernet fabrics and power for everything, etc, etc But they don't have serial ports or hdmi ports on any of them Except for the head node on that particular board Which you can see is way up there kind of in the left hand side Which makes it really problematic when you try to Bring things up like windows Windows particularly at this time. This is about 10 15 years ago Really wants a console or something that it can at least talk to the world with and if it can't find it It doesn't work at all So we had a trade show up in seattle at one While we were there that we the microsoft really wanted to show off their the latest clustering software And we we said yes, we can make it work And well we could get it working on the head node really really well Except trying to get it on to all the other compute nodes was a problem because we couldn't get a console out So one weekend we literally went and created serial consoles For every node on a cluster And when I say a cluster this is a single board We had machines that would take Six of these as I do the math in my head And put them into a single fabric 72 or 96 nodes ultimately So maybe that is eight of them eight of them it is eight So we we had eight of these so we had 96 computers that we then had to go and hand solder and hand create Serial console systems for For the boards To bring this all up We did it we took it up And we were the only company at this particular trade show That had a working cluster with microsoft Unfortunately, they were apparently still angry at us because we were a 32 bit processor and not 64 bit But we at least had the but we released up and running So that is the claim to fame on that And you know sometimes just shit happens and You know Again more things that just go wrong a few years ago a couple of years ago actually was uh Working on building some starship bridges. Why because well, you know, everybody wants a starship bridge, right? And I was doing some cnc milling and I Happened to miscalculate something and you know Chunks of Plastic were flying all over the place from the cnc machine because well, I did something wrong I learned I fixed it. I mostly slowed my progression down and instead of this supposing Supposedly supposed to take me about Eight hours to do everything took me 40 hours of standing over a cnc machine Because I had to throttle everything down so so much slower than I had expected Still turned out pretty well I think I've Ta-da not that you can really see that because it's a really dark picture, but it turned out pretty nicely So I'm running a little bit fast. So maybe uh, so hopefully You folks in the audience will have some more exciting stories of things going wrong but um Thomas Edison was once criticized rather brutally for uh Trying to invent the light bulb because he had tried 10,000 different ways and none of them had worked He stared at the the reporter who was uh interviewing him at the time and he said I haven't found you know, I haven't failed 10,000 times. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work And in reality, that's what we're all doing whether we're working on software working on hardware Particularly when we start going outside of our immediate comfort zones, we're doing nothing but learning and uh When things screw up when things fail when we make mistakes That's not us failing. That's us.    Whoo. We've learned something Oh here, I'll just back up and show you some of the pictures you can oh, well that one's still dark See if I can Oh, you can see the crowd better. You can understand why the wi-fi was in the house That one's still funny Oh, you can actually see the the break in the wire a little bit better now So you can see the molten plastic and they uh Thankfully, I used a thin enough wire that the wire itself acted as a fuse and burnt itself It's a little bit easier to see. Yeah, I should probably lighten these pictures up at some point. Anyway Come on. Who's got a story? I know there's not a whole lot of people in here, but somebody's gotta have a story You got a story Yeah, I mean Doing things. I mean you're you're talking about playing video games at levels that you know, you're gonna fail at or You know picking on or taking on fights that you know, you can't win But at least the process, you know, just because you're not going to succeed You know at least going in you know, you're not going to or probably not going to anyway Um, but you've learned something just from the process itself I was gonna say you should email Steven Rostad and I about uh our plans on that But uh for those of you in uh on the recording or whether you uh Could hear that he he's suggesting, you know, well, you know, there's system D out there and you know Everybody's kind of you know just uh accepted it as the foregone conclusion Although the gen two guys up here in the front would disagree with you on that Um as I believe you guys are still open rc, right? And they're very proud about being open rc Oh, they're whatever I want. So I want sys 5 I want sys 5 So I can I can still have it. Maybe I need to become a gen two guy You know, I've ragged on the gen two guys for god. How many years is it now 15? No, I'm not running up start Okay, nobody likes upstart. I'm sure there's somebody who's gonna like email me now and say that they love upstart Yeah, well I was gonna say if you really want to um Go back and look at things Take a look at one of my top or Linux.com did a write up on one of my talks years ago from the Ottawa Linux symposium There's a there's a choice quote in one of them Uh, so I'll let you go look that up and google that for yourself But uh, yeah, so, you know take on system d come up with a new in it system and you know Except that you know system d is not perfect. Maybe it needs to learn You know, it needs to have a a different in it system to actually go and compete against I mean competition is actually a very healthy thing and the fact that there Isn't in the in it world right now is actually kind of a problem I I will refrain from comment on that one on the uh advice of people who tell me I shouldn't You know quite flame and troll that much So come on it's also screwed up in the room Yes, I mean it Yeah, I mean it's there's always somebody who's got more expertise in an area than you well almost always somebody who's got more expertise in an area than you and Usually the people who have more expertise in your case the bike mechanics are going to be more than happy to I take your money To fix your bike You know at least in the open source world where at least nice enough to give advice Instead of immediately demanding money um, yeah, I mean and you know sitting at the feet of somebody else and going You know, I've screwed up, you know, how do I deal with this? I mean, I you know, I have I there are kernel developers who still ping me about well, how do I deal with this? How do I deal with that? Mostly in systems administration kind of things because I used to admin kernel.org for about a decade You know, they all know, you know, mostly how to contact me Um, and they know that I know What they're looking for and I'm sometimes faster than trying to read the band page Which usually is a bad sign that the man page needs some updating but Yeah, yeah, is there a better approach, you know, what should I have actually learned from this failure as opposed to that?  No, you're not tired. You're gen two developers.  That's why you like me so who else has failed Besides, you know, the gen two guys for causing global warming Really, I'm gonna do that talk someday. I've been threatening that for years How gen two has directly caused global warming by causing everybody to recompile everything all the time Huh What is the polar bear ever done for me? Let's see. Uh, it has caused the creation of plushies that are very cute And they eat, uh seals and they help the inuits stay alive. How's that? Is that enough? Seals and shirts that need to be eaten Well, that'll teach the seals for you know screwing up and Not learning anything, right? I can always end early. I mean it is the last day And the last talk of scale. I'm happy to end early if you guys want So by all means thank you for attending. I hope you enjoyed scale. I hope you enjoyed the talks And if you did, please let uh The the the volunteers know that you appreciated scale because good lord.  I've ever been to and I go to a lot of conferences. So Thank you