Well good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you. My name is Rick Nodiaga and I am the President-CEO of Avonce, Incorporated Unlocking America's Potential. On behalf of Avonce's National Board of Directors, our Avonce team across the country and the thousands of Avonce parents and children we have had the privilege to serve. We welcome you here to the National Office of Avonce here in downtown San Antonio, Texas. This press conference for those of you that are unaware is being streamed across the country. To our Avonce friends and family on the east coast, we're starting to get some of your weather here in San Antonio today. And to our friends and families on the west coast, well enjoy the nice weather that you're experiencing. Today marks another historic day in Avonce's history. For 40 years Avonce has administered its signature-based parent-child education program, a two-generation model that instructs that the parent is the first teacher and the home is the first classroom. Today we are sharing the results of a longitudinal impact study entitled Avonce, A Tenure Look at Impact, written by Dr. Felix Montes and the team of the nationally renowned Interdevelopmental Research Association, or ETHRA. And we want to also thank Roy Johnson, also with ETHRA team for being here and joining us. We are also joined by some of the Avonce graduates that are in the audience and research participants whom you will hear from in a moment. One of our mothers and her young adult teenage daughter who will be sharing some information with you, their story, and be available for questions in a moment. But before I introduce Dr. Montes to explain this study, let me give you the bottom line upfront as we like to say in the military. And that is Avonce works. This study further amplifies that two generation models like Avonce are the decisive point to breaking the cycles of poverty. It saves money and it ensures that our national and international competitiveness is still relevant and strong. We believe that early intervention is the best investment we can make in America's future by giving each child, no matter their circumstance, the start they deserve so that they are school ready, ready to learn with supportive parents who understand their developmental needs. Avonce has been the boots on the ground in this social space for 40 years. Since our humble beginnings here with our San Antonio team at the Mirasol Housing Project in San Antonio that have done a phenomenal job, today we have chapters across Texas and partners administering our parent child education program in seven states to reach thousand more families and children every year. When parents graduate from our nine month curriculum, they are transformed. They become role models for their children, instilling in them the value of education and empowering them to reach their goals. Through years of anecdotal evidence, success stories we see every day that walk through our doors. We've heard from wonderful families at all of our sites. We know our program works, but we, like many others around the country, were always asked, prove it. In parental engagement, early education, and intervention, the national dialogue is about proof and quality. We contracted nationally renowned researchers, Ithra, to conduct a study to see where our families are now. They checked in on hundreds of families, seven to 10 years after they completed the program to assess if Avonce led to real changes in the trajectory of their families. The results are astonishing.  We'd like to honor you today because this report is in your honor. Thank you so much for joining us and being here with us. These mothers, these mothers have taken great strides within our ranks and what was discovered through the study is that we have teachers and nurses and college students and some who have come back to work with Avonce to help mothers in similar situations. I also want to thank all of our staff that contributed to this study and in supporting the efforts to get this work done. The phenomenal job. We have a Avonce mother graduate who will act as a spokesperson today to tell her story, but they will be available as well to ask questions afterwards. So now it is my pleasure to introduce the author of this fine work, Dr. Felix Montes, author of Avonce, A Ten-Year Look at Impact. Dr. Montes. I appreciate the nice introduction, Mr. Noriega. Thank you very much. It is sometimes the unexpected findings that is the most interesting ones. We knew that we wanted to compare the effect that Avonce had on the mothers that have participated in the program more than ten years ago and we found those effects. We found that in fact, as Mr. Noriega said, the effects are amazing, but what I was not anticipating really was the effect that Avonce had on the children, on the children of those mothers who participated in the program. First of all, 93% of those children were school ready when they entered Avonce. Now what does that mean? Why is that so important? Because there is a body of the literature that tells us that there is a significant number of children who entered a school not being ready. For example, Lisa Klein from the Harvard Family Research Center in 2004, indicating the following. Depending on what's being assessed, between 25 and 60% of children are not ready to begin kindergarten. Between 25 and 60%, you can average that to about 40% of children not being ready. That means that 60% of them are ready. Compare that to the 93% that we found for Avonce. That's amazing. That's incredible, really, because she's thinking about the whole country. She's not even thinking about poor children. That's amazing. Every time that I see this, I get all emotional. Why is school readiness so important in addition to that? Because the future of these children really depends on them being ready to enter school. There is a strong relationship between school readiness and staying in school. And in fact, our study in Avonce shows that 90% of these children stay in school 10 years later. And why is that important? Well, IDRED have been conducting attrition. In fact, Roy Johnson is here, and he has been the one heading that study. For 28 years, we have been conducting an attrition study in the whole state of Texas, and we found that only 67% of Hispanic children stay in school to complete high school. Now compare that to 90% that we found for the Avonce children. That's amazing. Okay? Even for all children, 75% of them, according to our study, stayed to the end of the high school. Well, in the case of Avonce children, it was 90%. So that's to me outstanding. So I mentioned at the beginning that we found a very interesting effect, very strong effect of the protein on the models.  Okay? A typical Avonce of participants who participate in the program. She is Hispanic. She is a young model less than three years old, who is Hispanic, 98% of them are Hispanic. Economically distressed, about 40%. Thank you very much. About 40% earn less than $20,000 a year, and she has very low formal education.  So this is the background against which I want you to see these findings. And here are the findings. There was a 216% increase in the number of mothers with high education degrees. Now, this is comparing the situation at the beginning when they went to Avonce for health and 10 years later. During that time span, there was an increase in higher education degrees of 216%. Isn't that amazing? That is incredible. Okay? Second, there was a 127% increase in the number of mothers who gained employment. And I was mentioning this before in the interview. And it reminds me that during these 10 years, the employment situation in the whole country wasn't pretty, right? While the actual unemployment was increasing, for this mother, they were actually finding jobs. Why? Because of all of the support that they gained from Avonce more than 10 years ago. All these skills, communication skills that they earned in Avonce, the technical skills in doing things, the education that they gained and so forth, 127% increase in employment. And finally, there was a 148% increase in the number of Avonce family who owned their home. 143% increase on the number of families who owned their home. Again, during the time when many families were losing home, these families were actually buying their own home. 143% of them. So that's, to me, that's amazing. That's incredible. So these are some of the findings that I want to highlight in this intervention. And we have produced a 150-page report that will be available soon. Before leaving, let me just mention one last thought. One of the questions that we asked these mothers in the interview that we conducted to complete the study was, what was the best thing Avonce did for you? What was the best thing Avonce did for you? And here is another thing that they said. Avonce helped me become a better mother, become a role model for my children and become an advocate for my children and other children in the school and in the community. So this mother went from being on the age of society to become an active participant in society, in the school and in their community. And they mentioned that that was due to Avonce, the Avonce help that they received that were able to improve their communication with both their children and their husband, which allowed them, in many cases, to save their families from likely dissolution. And that was, to me, that was that's amazing. Because Avonce provides not only that formal training about raising children and so forth, but also advice about keeping the family together, counseling and all of that. And that's amazing. That's incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you Dr. Montes. And now we will hear from Ms. Elizabeth Reyes, who is currently a coordinator of Early Head Start here in San Antonio. In addition, we're really pleased and we had to wait just a little while before we got this press conference going because school had to let out so that we could have her daughter, Emily Huerta, be here with us as well, who we're so proud of because she was just sharing with me her future goals and aspirations and the wonderful university that she's planning on attending. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce Ms. Elizabeth Reyes. Good afternoon. I am Avonce's parent and I would like to think that I think that, you know, I am where I am because Avonce believed in me. And that's something that I've always said. I was 18 when I had my daughter, Emily, at the time I did not have the family support that I wanted. So my biggest concern was how am I supposed to be a mom and what am I supposed to do? I didn't know what I needed to do, but I knew that I didn't want to happen. So when I was living in the housing projects, Avonce went and knocked on my door and invited me to their nine month program. At first I was reluctant. I don't want to go. I don't know these people. But Avonce was very persistent. They came quite a few times before I decided to just give it a shot. And I think the first day that I walked in those doors, I thought to myself, wow, this is awesome. There was other mothers just like me. They were welcoming and they made us feel like the parents feel that, wow, we were important. What Avonce had taught me was that I was my child's first teacher. You know, it's not when they enter preschool or first grade or, you know, it learning begins at home. The home is the first classroom and the parent is the first teacher. So I did the nine month program. Ms. Gonzalez was my parent educator. After I finished that program, I kind of didn't want to leave Avonce. You know, I kind of was like, can I do it again? Or what's next? Because it was great. You know, I made friends with other parents. I learned so much about child development, child health and development. And also about the community. You know, the third hour speakers that came in were beneficial to me and my household. I was not working. I had never worked before. I had barely made my way through high school and graduated. And I didn't think that now being a mom, I was going to be able to do anything but stay home, as my mom did with myself and my siblings. But after that, you know, Avonce talked to me about phase two and going into college. And, you know, at first I said, well, I can't, I was, my bond with Emily was very strong. So my thing was I come here because I know she's down the hall.  But I don't think I can leave her in an actual center. But after, you know, Avonce is very persuasive. So after a while, I did enroll at SAC. And it took me a while. It took me about three years to obtain my associates along the way. I had two more children. And during that time, Avonce said, well, you know, we have phase two and we can provide you child care support.  They learned so much. And when they went to school, they were so ready. You know, of course, I was doing my part at home as well. But after I got my degree, my associates degree, I thought to myself, wow, now I can get a job. Now I can work. And I went to Avonce. And I said, you know, I want to work here. I want to do what you guys did for me. I want to be able to do for others. So I started working at the Carmen Picurte Center in the infant room as an infant teacher. I loved it. I got to work with the teachers that had provided care to my own children. So it was awesome being on the other side of the spectrum, you know. And I was there for about a year. After that, I moved to the Early Head Start home-based program. And I was a home educator. That was awesome, you know, working with families one-on-one, giving them support, doing that, being that person that Avonce was to me, I was now being able to go out and give that back. So I've been with Avonce for about 10 years. February 2nd will be 10 years with Avonce. My first real job, and I'm still here. And along the way, I've learned so much. Right now, back in December, I crossed the stage with my bachelor's. So now, not only do I have my associates, but I obtained my bachelor's degree. And I want to say, you know, through the years, I was no longer a parent. I guess once you're an Avonce parent, you're always an Avonce parent. So, you know, my colleagues, my co-workers would tell me, you need to go back to school. You need to go back to school. When are you going back to school? What about your bachelor's? What about your bachelor's? And it was like, wow. You know, I didn't get the push from my family. I am the first in my family to have a degree. My parents did not graduate from high school.  So for me to do this was totally the oldest of my siblings. So not only was I setting a standard for myself, I was also setting a standard for my siblings. So now, I do have a younger brother that I raised from the time he was 12. He went and did four years in the Navy. And now he's back and he's working, he's at Northwest Vista working on his business degree. So when he did, when I walked the stage that day, you know, he did, he was there. And he told me that because of me, you know, it made him want to pursue his education. So I know that I'm impacting someone, you know, and now with Emily, who is the Avonce child, she's a junior at Lanier High School down the street from here. She has been my AB honor roll student, my overachiever, my busy B.  We're looking forward to the spring because we're going to be visiting and touring college campuses.  As for her, as well as for my two younger ones, you know, I want them to be able to go farther than I have.  But I think, you know, walking into that building that one day helped me to be where I'm at right now and become who I am right now. We've provided water and Kleenex, which is part of our culture with Avonce. And so now it's my honor to introduce our Avonce daughter, Emily, what? You want to come up and say a few words, Emily? Come on. When you're in the governor of Texas, you're going to have to do this. I remember singing the cleanup song. Yeah, I can't really talk. I have so many plans. Please talk. I'm sorry. It's okay. She does have lots of plans. She is currently a magnet student at Lanier High School, so she's taking business and banking classes. But for her first two years of high school, she was also a police explorer. So she did a little bit of the criminal justice as well. She is on the varsity volleyball team. So she's been doing that since freshman year. She's also placed for an outside league top gun volleyball, along with all of her volunteer services that she's done. During the summer, she was a what are they called? Team youth leader, a junior volunteer for the inner city development program, which is down the street, and they provide a recreation services during the summer. So she spent her summer helping there with the children. On various occasions, she has come and volunteered for our to help in the childcare center here. When we have our meetings or special events, Dia de la Familia, special events like that. So right now, what we're working on is scholarship applications and building her educational resume so that we can send that out as well. I think she's what rank are you right now in class 17 17 out of 415 415. And what university do you want to go to? The University of Northern Iowa. She wants to go far away. But we are we will be going and visiting a few universities this spring so that she can get a feel of what a campus is like and and things like that. There is a program with the University of Austin where we're we're trying to get her in so that she can go stay for a few days to see how she likes that. So it's exciting. I'm worried. I'm scared. But more than anything, I'm proud and I know that she's going to do well. Well, you can see now why it's because of Elizabeth and Emily that were blessed to be able to work for an avance that actually transforms lives and has such an impact. That's meaningful. It's the pebble in the pond in terms of not just family but then community and family engagement. And so we're honored to be able to do the work we do we get up every day so that you know Emily when you if you get a when you get your job that you're going to get and be super successful. If you get up every day and you love what you do, you never have to work another day in your life. And so we at Avance all of our team were extremely blessed to be able to be agents of a intervention that really makes a difference in communities and in our state and in our country. So with that, I'm going to pass it over to Dr Montes or to Emily or to Elizabeth for any questions from the press or from anyone that might have some particular questions about the study. Again, on behalf of our board of directors and all of our team, we like to again thank either for their commitment and it's wonderful piece of work. Dr Montes for for what you've been able to capture and what oftentimes we've tried to communicate anecdotally. But you've really been able to quantify that particular impact with a with a good portion of our of our families. And so thank you again. So I will stop there. If there are any questions, you might have any questions? I was a little worried this year. I was the only one with her all the time. So my part of the work for me was separated. And having to be her, you know, with strangers at the time, they were strangers. So that I could go to class. But after real seeing what the program was, I was okay with it. It was just like her second world. When I was going to school for my associates, she was a little older, she was a radio over copper. So it was awesome, you know, we passed by my school, my school, you know, she would see the, the, the lunch in the classroom that she was super excited. So at times she made one. And to me, that was like, that was their home to you. If they would not want to stay or they would have separation anxiety, I think it would be hard for me. But because they were so welcome and enjoyed going in made of ice. Are there any other questions? Any questions at all? Well, again, we want to thank everyone for coming out on this on this challenging day with the weather that's blowing in. And the thank our friends from the East Coast that sent us this weather. But again, we, we here at Avonso are extremely privileged and honored to be able to do this work and make this kind of contribution as part of our collective legacy. We want to our mission as we celebrate our next generation, the next 40 years, as as we're celebrating our 40 year anniversary is to be able to make a broader impact as you've witnessed today, and to be able to serve more families and children. So thank you all again for coming out today. And stay tuned for for further reports and further evidence that we're making a difference. And then Avonso works. Thank you very much.


Hi, welcome to this EsmarConf 2023 panel discussion on the benefits and challenges of taking part in a hackathon. This session was pre-recorded because the speaker availability and now you're watching on YouTube. Automatic subtitles should be available now and we'll work hard to get these manually verified as soon as possible. If you have any questions from our presenters, you can ask them via the atES hackathon Twitter account by commenting on the tweet about this session. If you've registered for this conference, you can also comment and chat with other participants in our dedicated Slack channel. We will endeavor to answer all questions soon after the event. We would also like to take time to draw your attention to the code of conduct available at EsmarConf website at www.esmarconf.org. This panel discussion will include members from previous hackathons and they'll be speaking about what it means to take part in a hackathon and what can be produced collectively. My name is Trevor Riley and I am the head of reference and research services at NOAA Central Library. I will be the moderator today. Today we have panel members including Adam Dunn, Matthew Granger, and Allison Bethel. So we will start by allowing folks to introduce themselves and we'll start with Adam. Adam, can you introduce yourself and then also give us an idea of what hackathons you've been involved in in the past? Sure. So thanks for having me. My name is Adam Dunn. I'm a professor of biomedical informatics at the University of Sydney and I'm also the head of biomedical informatics and digital health at the university which is in the School of Medical Sciences and the Faculty of Medicine and Health. I am originally a computer scientist but that was a very, very long time ago and I think the first hackathon I was actually involved in if I'm looking through my records was around 2018 where I was a judge, not a participant and then I was involved in the evidence synthesis hackathon in Canberra in 2019 where I was a participant of sorts and have since then also been a judge on hackathons, contributed data to hackathons, judged hackathons and so on. So rarely a participant and often a judge. That's interesting. I haven't heard much about judging in hackathons but maybe we can type into that a little bit too. Matt, same question in terms of how did you get started in hackathons and introduction? Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm Matt Granger. I'm a researcher at the Norwegian Institute for Nature Research at NINA based in Trondheim in central Norway. I'm an ecologist by training but also have a strong interest in evidence synthesis and making tools to help people. I started off at the ES hackathon in 2018 in Stockholm with working on the Evia Atlas project there and from there I've carried on doing several different hackathons all to do with evidence synthesis, all in that realm. Awesome. So it's a nice mix of health sciences and ecology. I like it. And we have our last panel member, Alison Bethel. And Alison, what role have you played in hackathons and what got you started and introduction as well? Thanks Trevor. So yeah, I'm Alison Bethel and I'm an information specialist, so a bit different to Matt and Adam. And I work for the University of Exeter, the medical school, and I work in a team called the evidence synthesis team. So we undertake evidence synthesis, systematic reviews, evidence and gap maps, that kind of thing. And my role is to find the evidence as an information specialist. And I got involved in the hackathon. The first one was in 2019 at Canberra, like Adam. And I got involved through, I won't bore you with the long story, I was at a conference in Paris on environmental evidence through one of my colleagues, Ruth Garcide, some projects I was involved in with her. But prior to becoming an information specialist at Exeter University, I did work as a librarian at the Environment Agency. So that's how I ended up involved in the environmental field. And while I was at the conference, I met and saw some presentations by Martin Miske and Neil Hedaway. So we had some chats afterwards and then that's how I kind of got involved in the hackathon. And I was involved last year, presenting a workshop on searching. That's wonderful. It's really interesting everybody is not too new, but also doesn't have a long experience in hackathons. So this is great. I think a lot of our viewers will really love to hear the feedback on this session. So let's do around Robin here and talk about the difference between maybe a hacker and a coder. So being a part of a hackathon, what role, if you can dive a little bit deeper into what role you've played in the hackathon and whether you see yourself as a strictly doing in terms of hackathons, a hacker or a coder and what that might mean to you. Let's start with Alison. Yeah, actually not a coder. That's not my bag at all. So the role I played in 2019, it was interesting because he had the coders in one room and then he had the others in the other room. So there's a lot of discussion about evidence synthesis and Adam can probably pitch in here as well because he's in the room too. Talking about the process of evidence synthesis and systematic reviews and at what points perhaps that a tool or coding would be able to help within that whole process, I would say. Yeah, I don't know if Adam wants to add more I'm happy to jump in next and for sure. Yeah, so I was in the same position. Even though I'm originally a computer scientist, I probably wouldn't call myself a coder anymore. It's been a long time since I've really had any chance to do any real coding. But yeah, no, I was in that room. I actually joined the evidence synthesis hackathon and went along with a software engineer from my group, Paige Martin, and so she was involved in the coder's room essentially and working on at least one or two tools I think as part of the hackathon. But interestingly, we think about the products that come out of these hackathons and one of the products that came out or tools, things that came out of the evidence synthesis hackathon in 2019 was a paper that Alice and I are both co-authors on, which was on a new ecosystem for evidence synthesis published in Nature Ecology and Evolution. And that was really established in that room as we were having discussions on what needs to happen in to make changes, I guess in how we do evidence synthesis. I believe it was also a relatively successful hackathon from the perspective of tool building, because I think some of the tools that were built in the room at the time were also went on to quite a lot of success. So you don't have to just be coding when you're at a hackathon. I think that's the really good fun part of hackathons is that everyone has something to contribute to and you don't have to be the best coder, you don't have to be the most knowledgeable. But there's a little bit you can do and it's joining together and working together. And I enjoyed that. That's why I became addicted to a hackathon. Events was because of that. In Socom, we had real computer scientists who had built the tool before we'd even stopped talking about it. And the academics were able to talk a lot about what things should be and the tool was being built as we're doing it. So it's a really good way of collaborating. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, and I remember I was used to tell repeatedly, tell Neil and Shinichi that it was probably the most fun experience I'd had traveling for a conference or hackathon for anything for the last few years. It was actually really a lot of fun. And that same year, I actually was a judge in a hackathon in Malaysia, which was digital health related. And in this case, the hackathon was actually for a whole bunch of students from across computer science and medicine to get together and build solutions to problems in the real world. And I was there to help decide which of the tools was the best and would actually receive funding to be built for real. So that was quite amazing as well. But I wanted to pause for a second and ask Trevor, you haven't told us yet what your hackathon experience is and whether or not you're a co-dehacker or otherwise. I don't think that's fair. I'm the moderator, but no. I went back and actually listened to some panels from last year, maybe the year before. And I was listening to Martin Westgate about his work and all the packages he's worked on. And he talked about feeling like you step into a room and everybody says they feel like they're unqualified to be there. And I think that was the epitome of what I felt when I put forward an idea for what will be site source. And we've got a session at this year's conference. And I had no R experience at all. I think I had run searcher maybe one time unsuccessfully. And so I ended up using the Shiny. I don't see myself as a coder. I think I would say a coder is somebody who is doing it every day. And maybe somebody who's a hacker is doing it more collaboratively. It's just a piece. They're a piece of the puzzle. And so yeah, that's where I see myself as maybe a hacker borrowing, learning constantly. Really in that regard. And yeah, my first experience was last year's hackathon, which was all virtual, completely different from I think any of the earlier hackathons. But it was the way that I was able to get in the door, because I probably wasn't able to travel to Europe to do some just for coding anyway. So I think that this new environment actually brings more people in. And we may be able to get more hackers involved. So but that being said, like how I got involved, you know, I had an idea. I really wanted to see it through. And Neil helped make that happen. But what made you all say yes to getting involved in projects? Because it's not something small, right? It's a substantial amount of time. It can be long term projects. So what made you say yes and continue saying yes to these projects? And let's let's start with Matt, because, you know, you've been on so many of these projects. I think that the reason I said yes was to learn more about code and learn more about instances at the time. The reason I continue to say yes is because it's really good fun. And you do get some outputs, you know, there are academic outputs and tools that are developed. And that's nice to be able to feel that you can actually make a difference and help people. That's why I continue to say yes. And Adam and Allison, you have any thoughts on that initial yes, maybe? And then and then that continuation with projects as well? Me, I think in Evidence Synthesis, the search lends itself really well doing the search to having some kind of coding or app to help you do it. And I have lots of ideas. Because having done it for over 10 years, I keep thinking, oh, if only I could do X, you know, and I don't have the skills. So being linked up with other people who have the skills and also the dialogue between people is really interesting. Although when you come back from it, you know, it is like we were saying earlier, Trevor, sometimes you have to think of it as a very long term thing, you know, because everyone's doing it kind of on top of their day job. I think I was probably a little bit reluctant to join Ian and because I didn't think I'd be able to contribute anything. But the reason I said yes in the first place was because of the people, because I like the people. And so they asked me. And of course, I had to say yes, because they were very nice. I left the 2019 hackathon just blown away by the amount of work that actually gets done. And just by comparison, I also am an interim trustee. And I sit on the membership panel for a society called Society of Research Synthesis Methodology. And, you know, it's a fine meeting where everybody presents their ideas. And I learn a lot of interesting things and I meet some quite amazing, brilliant people from around the world. But, you know, it's not quite the same as leaving there, knowing that the tools that were built during those days are going to be used for forever, hopefully, or for a very long time in the future. It's a different kind of experience to turning up for an annual meeting or a conference. And, you know, not that those are bad, but this is just a lot more fun. I think one thing I'd like to add is the collaborative kind of aspect to that is really important. As well as everything being open access as well. I think that is one of the drivers, I think, for still being involved in it. Yeah, I think it is, it's pretty exciting to know that those tools are going to be open, are going to be used by the community. Yeah, it's really fantastic. And being able to meet other like-minded people who really do want to move this area forward. So that's great. So along with these positive aspects of hackathons, what would you say are some challenges that you have faced during hackathons, and how have you overcome those challenges? And Adam, do you want to start this one? Yeah, for sure. Look, there wasn't a particular challenge that needed to be overcome with the evidence synthesis hackathon that I attended. But there was something that I was thinking about when we were planning for this panel. And it was that the hackathons that I felt didn't work as well were the ones where everybody was trying to answer exactly the same research question and then just do it better than everybody else. And those are the ones that were judged and where people weren't coming up with new innovative solutions that would just achieve the best accuracy on this particular machine learning problem. And so they would all compete with each other to produce the best solution. There'd be some prizes at the end of it. The people who got the best solution were then invited to write it up. And they didn't work very well. The solutions weren't great. I feel like the experts in a room could have easily done a better job without having to run a hackathon. And the ones that worked particularly well were the ones where it was go for it. There are a million different problems that we need to solve. Pick one that suits you and that you're interested in, join together with other people that have the same problem and build something cool and fun. And so I think if there was a challenge, it would be the framing of what we're meant to do in the hackathon and the way to solve that. It would be to change the framing to be build cool tools. That's a great tagline. I like that. Build cool tools. But in terms of the judging, if I can jump in before others just continue along this line of thought, how were they judged? Were you looking at the concept, the idea and judging that? Or was it really just based on what the output was at the end of the hackathon? In one of the ones that I judged before, not one in Malaysia. It was actually another university in Australia. It was based on half on the performance of the model in a machine learning model at the end of the day. And it was also half based on the quality or creativity of the solution. So it was those two things. But everybody was answering the same question. And they were there to get the prize money. It was kind of a bit like a shared task, if you know from computer science, that's the way people compete in shared tasks to get the best performance. And so I felt like that didn't work as well as a much more free and open approach. Thanks, Adam. And Matt and Allison, in terms of challenges that you have encountered during projects and how you've overcome them, can you think of any specifics? There's personal challenges. So as we've already mentioned, not feeling good enough. Because there's always someone in the room who's a lot better at coding than you are. And I have more knowledge about evidence than you are. But it's about letting those go and realizing that you do have a role to play. And even if it's just testing someone's code, you can do something to help writing documentation, whatever it might be. I found that a bit of a challenge at the start, I think. But when you realize that people are very, very friendly and very, very open and they don't really care if you can't code that well, then actually it's less of a challenge. It's more of a personal thing to get over. Yeah, I think probably the same for me, but also being the only information specialist in the room that can handle that was a bit of a challenge for me, I think. Because my experience was so different, I guess, to others.  But no, there are other librarians and information professionals involved in it. So I think that makes, I'm involved in a project that Trevor maybe mentioned earlier. So that makes the conversations a little bit easier because we both understand the same language, we're speaking the same language. So I think that's certainly helpful. I think it's one of the things about evidence synthesis, isn't it, that we tend to be extremely multidisciplinary. By the nature of what we're trying to do, you're going to have people from every different kind of discipline in the room, coding experience or not coding experience. I mean, a lot of the people in the area, we're all using R. And I'm certainly not an R coder. And I think the nice thing about having people who work in areas like information, as an information specialist in other areas where you're kind of forced to be a conduit for lots of different disciplines at once. In order to be able to do a good job of searching, you kind of need to be an expert in every other discipline at the same time. And so I think that having people in the room who are good conduits between different areas is a really valuable thing. And I think we need more of those people at Hackathons for sure. This is great. I think going off the personal challenges and also playing that unique role, what Matt said about, again, just maybe not feeling adequate enough or not feeling like you have enough to bring to the table. But really, the ideas you're bringing from your unique roles, like the ideas that Allison is bringing as an information professional, I'm a librarian as well. And we deal with particular parts of the evidence synthesis process, but we're deep in it every day. And so I think that that can bring a lot of value. So that's really interesting. It reminds me a little bit about the Seth Godin shipping creative work. I don't know, throw that out there for anybody who is feeling like they are not bringing enough to the table. It's a fantastic book to read. Let's see. So when we're thinking about Hackathons, we're normally thinking about developing tools, right? But what might be some other useful things that Hackathons can create or can come out of Hackathons? Adam, you spoke a little bit about the paper that you and Allison had co-authored. Can you talk more about that and maybe talk about maybe some other aspects of Hackathons that you think are good in terms of creation? Yeah, for sure. I'd love to hear Allison's take on what she found the experience like. I remember at the 2019, the room was filled with some relatively loud people, and I feel like I might have been one of those loud people. So I'd be interested to hear what Allison thought about the experience of coming up with these kind of ideas that we need to do to be able to shape the future of evidence synthesis. It's something that I've been thinking about a lot for a long time. I've been writing papers in the area since 2011. It was a really interesting experience to have ideas from all around the world, from every different discipline. This is how we do it. This is, no, you're wrong. We need these standards. No, let's just do this. It was a really interesting kind of debate that we had around ideas. I guess if you think about it from a large scale, the ideas that we were discussing and debating in that room, it would have been great if we were able to have those discussions right in the same room where people were building tools. Because for my money, the best tools that we can build right now are the ones that improve the synthesizability of primary research that make things more robust and fairer. There's certainly tools that you can build that help you fix a single tiny part of the process, but the best tools are the ones that break those processes open. And I think that's a lot of the stuff that we were talking about in the other room. And it'd be nice if there was some more cross fertilization with those things as well, I think. But anyway, look, I talked too long. I want Alison to answer. No, I probably didn't drive much more. I remember you see there were loud voices, but then we were split up into groups. So in the smaller groups, people felt, me perhaps, felt more comfortable to speak within a smaller group. Because I guess someone who with less experience like myself being there, you kind of defer to those like yourself, Adam, who you've been thinking about this for a long time. And actually what you're saying, you go, oh, yes, that's true. So it's just in one way, it's voicing for other people that's thinking anyway. So I don't think I don't I don't really recall that being an issue. I think everyone felt their voice, their voice was valid. Yeah, which is, you know, that collaborative approach. Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the other things that we, we should be discussing more about and some of the things that I know are of interest to other people in the evidence synthesis hackathon is really around the other, the things that we can do to support better quality evidence synthesis in the community for everyone. So we often think about things like checklists and standards and tools that don't require any code at all. And those kinds of things can be really, really useful. But I think they're useful when they're in tandem with that with the kinds of tools that make that are available and that are easy to use for everyone. You know, we know there are right ways to do systematic reviews. And we also know that probably less than 1% of systematic reviews actually follow all of those rules, right? So I want to see the tools, I want to see the ideas, the checklists and the standards that wouldn't say democratize systematic reviews or evidence synthesis or meta analysis, but but at least make it easier for everyone to do the right thing. And I think those are the things that can really come out of hackathons when you get those people talking about ideas and the people building tools alone. No, I like that. I think in terms of hackathons sometimes it's like this is a hackathon for evidence synthesis go and without maybe some more guidance on let's make things more useful for people, right? Like let's let's take what we have already and improve the shiny app so that, you know, folks can really, you know, do the work without knowing are I think that that was one of the big things I was worried about last year when we got started is not knowing everything. You know, I had reached out to Eliza Grimes, you did that searcher right and I said, hey, really, I love your package. I can't use it. And then she put together shiny and it was it made it opened up my world and that really like brought me in. So I think that that's that's right on Adam in terms of like bringing these tools opening them up and that that cross collaboration that Allison had mentioned too. I think I think that might be something that is particular or a bit special about the evidence synthesis hackathon as well.  Is your is your feeling that the kind of the openness and the making it available to as many people as possible to do the right thing as part of the what would you call it the ethos or the or the or the undercurrent of the entire hackathon. Definitely, I would say it is the ethos of VS hackathon is to make tools that people can use that aren't reliant on someone's coding skills or even even their understanding systematic reviews to a certain extent, maybe we try and make sure that people have some background knowledge available. Neil will make a video to go with the tool to help people to understand why they're doing it and what they're doing. I think all that is yeah, it's a really important aspect of it. And I think it's easy for us to forget about that. But as a team, we're often very, as you said, interdisciplinary different types of people coming together. And I think that's important because the problems we face may quite be quite similar across different fields, but there's some things that are worse or better in other disciplines than others, you know. And I think it's an understanding of that whole. Yeah, the whole array of different problems you might face is really useful when you come to design these tools for a bigger group of people. It's not just for health professionals or ecologists or whoever it's for everyone who uses evidence synthesis tools. Yeah, I wonder, I wonder how many what proportion of hackathons are like that because, you know, I have all be a limited experience with hackathons, but I've certainly been a hackathons where it's been a competition to find the most commercializable tool that everybody's keeping secret within their little super group of talented coders because they know at the end of the hackathon, there's an opportunity for funding for their idea and it's going to help them become successful and rich or whatever it is that they want to do. And I know that the evidence synthesis hackathon is absolutely not like that. So I wonder how many hackathons are like that. And if there's maybe something a little bit special about the evidence synthesis hackathon. But saying that if someone does want to give us some money, then please do.  But in terms of in terms of making a hackathon successful, right, like last last year when we were fully remote and we did this hackathon, it was really challenging, right? I think that in terms of the new normal, right? Working across, you know, entire continents across the world, you know, we're really challenged by not being able to sit in the same room. The hackathon for site source was maybe a couple hours and then everybody kind of went their own ways and it's been over an entire year just going, you know, weekly meetings and bi-weekly meetings. How can we make hackathons in this more modern world where we're collaborating in different time zones? How can we actually make them more successful and then also ensure that they continue into the future? Because these aren't, you know, one's getting paid here, right? No one is required to continue along with the project. What would you say keeps bringing people to the table and how can we continue to make these successful? Matt, do you have insight into, I mean, you've created so many packages through the evidence of the hackathons. Do you have any insight into, you know, which of those, how it worked in terms of keeping those projects going and continuing to develop them? What do you feel was the common denominator in terms of the success? Yeah, I think the main thing is having a driving force and for site source, Trevor, you're the driving force behind that. Your reminding us that we should be doing something and sorry I haven't, but we should be doing more and you're there just that constant reminder of the process. I think having tools like GitHub, for example, has allowed people to work together, but not necessarily at the same time, which is quite useful for these sort of, yeah, remote hackathons, but there is something to be said for having a short period of time in place together. I think that brings maybe, yeah, it sort of brings things closer together faster. I think there's a different experience between the two. I've enjoyed both approaches and I think, yeah, the world we're in now, I can't really afford to fly off to America or fly to Australia. I can get a train to Stockholm, but that's about it. But it's, yeah, I think it's pretty better for the environment and better if we work together using systems online. GitHub is one that I know very well, so that's something that I'm very comfortable with. There's obviously a barrier there of learning how to use GitHub, but I think you can probably talk about that Trevor, how you've actually learned to do that. And I think that's something that does help these sort of disparate groups of people to work together in the same thing. I think we all have the same goal is to get a good product done, so that helps as well. Everyone's motivated. You go. All right. Yeah, Alison, Adam? I was just reflecting on what you were saying and I wondered if, I think it is harder when people aren't in the same room, but I wondered if there was an opportunity like Matt said, if you get a train to Stockholm, I can too. So maybe there are centres in different places all at the same time and it's a bit of a hybrid thing, but you've got protected time, then if people come to one institution, say in Europe, it's easy for people in Europe to get to or in Australia, in the States or something like that, but all in the same week or something, that's potential. It's a hybrid and it's not a hybrid and you're not on your own, then it's just a suggestion really. Hybrid is really tough. We run, so I'm a convener for a network called Digital Health Informatics Network. It's got a thousand people in it and we run a conference every year called Digital Health Week and it started at University of Sydney and has grown to include University of Melbourne, University of New Zealand and will continue to grow to include lots of universities around Australia. The beautiful thing about the conference is that it was free this year and it's usually very cheap to turn up to and submit papers to. Hybrid is really tough, so we try and hold in-person events at each of the locations on different days and it's just a struggle to get a whole bunch of people in a lecture theatre and then have twice as many of those people online watching and all that sort of stuff. Hybrid can be tough, but I was actually thinking about there was that paper that was written about the impact of working online on innovation. And if I remember correctly, the conclusion of that paper was that working online has made it harder for people to be innovative, but it's actually quite useful for just getting stuff done. And so I wonder if maybe the right way to think about this is not should we meet or should we not meet for a hackathon, it's about how can we structure an in-person hackathon to be most useful because you don't need to just get stuff done at a hackathon, but what you do need is the time to sit and discuss ideas and come up with innovative solutions because according to the paper at least, that is what's required is that in-person discussion and talking to come up with these innovative new ideas. And then when it's time to get stuff done, of course, you can do that from the luxury of your own home at whatever time you like and then just push those changes through to GitHub, easy. So I think maybe the structure of hackathons just needs to be rethought about in terms of what you spend, what kinds of things you prioritize during a hackathon. I think it's probably one way to think about it. Yeah, I'm going to leave the coding at home and just bring the ideas almost. I like that. I mean, I've never been to a conference to actually listen to the talks. It's always to go out to dinner with friends. That's it. It's the only reason to go to a conference. It is one nice aspect. It leads into another question. If you could develop a new structure then, Adam, I think I'd like to continue down that line of thought. If you could create a new structure for a hackathon from the ground up, what might it look like? Is it going to be purely conversation, logistics for how the project is going to continue into the future? What would be the main parts that you would want a hackathon to cover then? I'm clearly not qualified to answer that question. I think I've been to a few that worked and a few that didn't. I know what parts I enjoyed. I was just happy to be there, to be honest. I'll leave that for the experts. I don't think I'm an expert either. I think some of the aspects that are really good is the community feeling. Either that's online or in person, I think it's having a community and feeling like a community is really important for me at least in engaging in these projects. If you can maintain that whichever way you can, in person, and as Adam said, maybe these subgroups of people internationally would be very useful. You still need a component of online work to get that global connectivity. Covid has taught us one thing is that we can work online, we can meet online, and we're sat here on Zoom now talking across different continents, so we can do it. It may not be as touchy-feely and we may not be able to have a beer together, but we can at least get stuff done and it's good stuff we're doing. All right, awesome. I know Matt, I would definitely like to buy you a beer for all of the work you've done on Sight Source. All right, so let's wrap up with one last question. For our viewers who may be considering taking part in the hackathon, what advice would each of you give a listener, and this could be from your own unique perspective as an information professional, or any way you'd like it, but what advice would you give somebody? We'll start with Matt. I was just going to say just do it. Just join up. Don't be frightened. You can't break things. You can't ruin the whole project. Anything you can, any small part of what you give, it's going to be really useful and really helpful, so don't worry about your skill levels or anything like that. Just apply and go for it. I think if I was going to give any advice, it would be to leave your work at home, to sort of embrace the opportunity to spend dedicated amounts of time on this, and that doesn't just mean during the day. It also means networking at night and hanging out with everybody and talking to them if you're in person. I think there's also something important there about your obligation to make sure that the environment is an inclusive, safe, respectful one as well. I think it's really important that if you're a participant in a hackathon, that you make sure that the environment is like that for everybody else, that you don't just leave it up to the organisers to make sure that they set that culture and that tone, but that you live and act in that tone as well. It was the beauty of the evidence synthesis hackathon. I always felt included and safe and respected in my opinions and how I was and who I was. I think that that was always the case. I hope that was the case for everybody at the hackathon as well. I think that's kind of one of the things that I would suggest people to remember when they're visiting a hackathon for sure. Yeah, I don't think I can add anything else. Like Matt said, just go for it. You will have something to offer, I think. And from what Adam said there, people will listen to you. All right, awesome. I think Matt, just do it. I like that. Even if you're just going to show up to listen, because you could be right, you could be very intimidated about the entire process, but if you just join in and listen, there's going to be one thing that you can at least provide some insight into from your perspective. And whether or not it gets taken up, you're still hearing how the process works and how people take on different roles. And you also learn a lot about even good coders, good hackers, right? They are coming and saying like, well, I don't really know how to build a shiny app or I don't know how to do this part, but I know how to do that part. And so you can understand how people have their own niches even within that process. So I think that I love the idea, just do it. If you're thinking about it, I'm really thankful to have had the time to spend with you all today. And I hope that the listeners have gotten a lot out of it. Just to wrap things up, I think a lot of what we talked about is that community aspect. From the discussion, hearing everybody talk about that constant learning, just putting yourself out there and how a lot of this is shifting too. We kind of have an understanding of what a hackathon is, but evidence that a hackathon is something different too. It's not something that you're going to be judged on. It's really about producing those tools for the community and how everybody has a seat at the table. And I love that, Adam, about just making sure you are acting always in a way to include people and help them up because that's what we need more of that across the board. So I love that. And in terms of Allison's perspective of being an information professional as a librarian, I've got the same thing too.  But we each have that. And I think it's important to keep that in mind that everybody has something to bring to the table. So any last words before we wrap up from anyone? All right, awesome. So thank you for everybody joining this panel on the benefits and challenges, taking part of the hackathon. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. And thank you to Adam, Matt and Allison. And we'll see you at our next session. Thank you.


TFNN, Deadline News Update. Hello, this is Basel Trapp, I'm the host of the Tiger Technicians Hour coming up, straight off to this noon update of TFNN. The Dow is down 93 at 26,700 and 13, quite, it's going, trying at least to get back into the up channel resistance area, a lot of resistance in the 26,950s or higher. So we'll see what happens here. You've got the S&P also down, but it's actually come back quite a bit. It's now down only two at 29,73. After all, you're looking at a fabulous rally just in the last week alone. And we've given back only a little bit right to the nine period exponential moving average, the MACD is good, Stochastics at 90%. So far, very good action. A close below 29,50 would suggest a much deeper correction. So far, this is very good. 29,79 to 29,81 on a very short-term basis of your resistance. QQQ actually is up. It's up 56 at 119.29. Also three days of correction. Since the 191.44 all-time high, so far, this is very nice. The MACD is good, Stochastics at 91%. You probably have to go under 188, it's called 187.50 to turn quite negative. IWM is down 35 cents at 154.84. It's kind of struggling. It's had five days of consolidation and it's taken a much deeper hit. But it's still trading OK in the weekly chart. Now let's go to the gold. Gold is down only one. It was down a lot more earlier on at 1399. Let's go to 1340. It's really important to hold the 1380 level, 1380 to 1378. And so far, this is good action back about a 14-period moving average. Nice sideways. Look, a rectangle formation can last a lot longer than your patients. And the gold is in a rectangle formation. The dollar, nevertheless, has held quite nicely. It's up 1197.49. But this is leg D. It is above the chaff, inside wedge, sorry, inside track repellent zone. So that makes this whole area of 97 very important support to hold over the next few days. It's at 97.49. I'll talk about the TLT as soon as we get back in my show. That is bonds. Bonds are down just 14 texts and 132.47 in the TLT. Also the rectangle formation. I'll talk about all this as soon as we get back. Basel Chapman target missions are coming up in the host of this show. 12 o'clock to one o'clock each weekday. I hope to see you soon. Otherwise, I'll see you tomorrow.


This one happens to be Butterick Fall, and I have told you guys in the past Butterick, since I began, since I started sewing, has been my favorite. Now, they've wavered here lately, but I feel like almost every Big Four pattern company wavered here lately. So we're going to take a look at Fall, keeping an open mind. Things have been really good amongst the Big Four lately, so I am optimistic. How's that? All right, is this Kamala Harris? Did she just become a model or what? Doesn't she look like her if you just kind of glance and then glance away real quick? Maybe it's the big hair. I don't know. Anyways, women's jacket, shirt, and pants. So we've got a little wardrobe. I love those. We have all the patterns in one. Mrs. One Button Front Jacket has three-quarter sleeves with gathers. Pull-on, faux wrap skirt, and wide leg pants have elasticized waist. Also, please excuse if I sound weird or if I have these little itty-bitty coughs during the video. I'm still getting over whatever that thing was. It's chest congestion, and we're just kind of trying to move through it. Okay, so bear with me. All right, so as they said, one button in the front, you've got these really long darts, really, really deep V in the front. And then the ruche sleeve. I mean, have we not seen that a whole bunch this year from all the big four? This is really, really cool, fun, easy detail to execute. So I really love that. These pants, although they're elasticated, they do look like they fit really well. They also, of course, look very comfortable. Here's the pull-on skirt. Now, that is not what I was, you know, when they first said that, I was assuming something a lot more basic. It actually has like a bit of a wrap front, kind of a tulip, which is really nice. There's the back. The back of the jacket, little, I don't know, linebackery through here, a little wide. I don't know if the shoulder seam is just really long. And the jacket itself is also really long. So I wish we could kind of, you know, elevate that and modernize the lengths of the jackets we keep seeing in sewing patterns. But alas, here we are. And I don't think they're going to show us the pants, but you can see them here. So it's not actual casing, I don't think. I mean, that's not what that looks like. So I think there's a little, that can't be right. Hold on, let me read this description again. Pull-on have elasticized waist. So it's not a casing, so the elastic is just sewn into like the top of the pant, I guess. That's interesting. I can't say that I've certainly never sewn that before. Can't even really say I've seen it and ready to wear. Am I, am I, is that what happened to you guys? Do you just like sew it into the facing or something? All right, fabrics. Oh, they also didn't show us, isn't there a little t-shirt? No. Jacket, skirt and pants. Okay. Um, fabrics. Ponte, French terry and sweatshirt, please. For version A. Really? A is the jacket. A and C also, cotton blends, pop blend, linen and crepe. Oh, no, wait. I don't know about that, guys. I was imagining something like this for all views. Yeah, this is, something weird is happening in here. I guess the pants you could do, because this is A and C. A is the jacket and C is the jersey jacket? No, that can't be right. Moderate stretch knit. Is this, this isn't a knit pattern. Boy, I'm real confused already. That's something I have to check the, um, I, and they say one button, but elastic, but they don't tell you how much or what size. Just figure it out. Okay. Eight to 16 and then 18 women's to 24 women's on the size range. That's what happens whenever I review the collections, like really quickly after they're released. Um, there's a lot of mistakes, typos and stuff. So, but the jacket, at most you would need two and a quarter yards, the skirt just needs two yards and the pants like around two and a half. So that's not bad. No helpful finished garment measurements. Okay. Next up we have, now this just seems like classic buttock, right? Like a knit dress. Um, this one is top, uh, dress and tops have princess seams, lapped collar and long sleeves, pull on skirt and pants have elastic sized wastes. So again, you get the whole, the whole wardrobe here. You could do definitely a capsule wardrobe out of this stuff. Um, but they use this really pretty. Oh, I don't know. That's gotta be, it looks kind of smoother than I originally thought. Maybe some kind of like sweater knit, I guess, but look at these princess seams.  Little bit of gathers here. Obviously this needs to be sort of a good balance between a fabric that's stable enough to cover your whole body, but also with all of this drape. Um, so it doesn't look like too, too stiff on your body or on your neck. The length is good too, right at the knee. This is the skirt and the top and you can better see those princess seams too. Oh, that one's kind of sporty. That's fun. I feel like this is the fabric recommendations we just saw. That just got juxtaposed with this one maybe. Here's the back, just a center back seam. And then you've also got some ruching here too. Just classic buttock right here. That's what this is. Really, really cool. I love the sporty element that it brings. The skirt is actually quite nice. So are the pants, um, especially for pontinets. Um, if you don't have like a classic pencil skirt and pencil pants like this, um, this could be a good pattern to invest in because I think you'd also make this pullover, right? And the top is kind of fun. You could do that out of like ITY knit and have a completely different look. So yeah, very versatile. Very versatile on this one. Okay. So moderate stretch knit, 35%. Jersey interlock pony French terry sweatshirt, please. That makes a lot more sense. A and C need seam binding, D and E. One and a half yards of one inch maybe elastic. Oh gosh. Extra small to medium and enlarge to extra large. Or two X, I'm sorry. Um, the dress is two and three eighths. The top at most is one and three quarters. The like pullover sweatshirt thing is two and a quarter. The skirt is just one, one and a quarter, but you can probably eat it out of one and then the pants are two and three eighths. So very reasonable fabric requirements there. This is a good one guys. This is a good one. I might be picking this one up myself. Just for like classics, basics. You know what I mean? Nothing too trendy. All right. Misses one button front jacket with notch collar and pockets. So your classic blazer. Am I right? Really excellent construction job by the seamstresses there on this sample. Really beautiful. Look at these welts. Well pocket. Really nice. Um, is there a breast pocket? Yep. Breast pocket up here, which is nice. Notch collar is nice. Then they made like a little fancier illustration with some color blocking. She cashed it up a bit. Oh, really nice detail in the back. You see this in menswear a lot. Where the seam, like the princess seam that creates waist shaping and all of that kind of releases into the pleats. So you can, you know, move around and sit down and all that. Oh, Palmer plush. Okay. There you go. So you know it's going to fit well, which you can tell this one certainly does. Couple little buttons here too. Kind of like a tuxedo. I'm doing my best not to cough, guys. I'm really sorry. Wolf-Lanel tweed velvet corduroy and brocade. Yeah, you're kind of like suiting fabrics. And then fully lined two and five eighths of the yard of self fabric. And then the contrast if you need it. So good classic Palmer plush. This one looks a little, is it vintage? Is it like a reproduction? Misses and women's princess seam coat and dress with flair skirt. A has a contrast collar, cuffs and pockets. B has contrast bodice and sleeves. I mean, it might be a reproduction of an older pattern because it definitely feels kind of costuming, if I'm being honest. Here's the dress where they mixed tweed and silk. So that's a look. I actually probably wouldn't mind it if this were sheer, like a mesh or something. That could be kind of cool. This feels very mature. This is how you get into it. I will say the princess seams in the back are really lovely. Just the seaming all around the fit is really nice. Maybe just the fabric choice is a little bit odd. I was trying to look at these to see if that made me like it more. Sometimes I'll like the line drawings a lot, even if the sample they made is not calling to me. But this, I don't know. Yardage is tweed, wool blends, crepe and gabardine. Your contrast you can do in velvet, satin or brocade. And this is kind of what I was talking about. So doing the contrast in B, like the yoke and all of that, in a sheer novelty, crepe or georgette, and then you'll need lining fabrics to line it. So six one inch buttons. I guess they're covered buttons, yep. One pair of shoulder pads. More covered buttons. Invisible zipper, hooks and eyes. Eight to 16 and then 18 women's to 24 women's. Holy moly five and one eighth yards of fabric. So yeah, obviously a fabric hog. Even the dress is almost three yards. So there's that. I guess that's all that seeming that I was talking about. You know, those longer panels. You know, that takes up a lot of fabric, especially with the flare of the skirt. So yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. All right, what's next? We're already in the tops. So we're gonna be moving through this one pretty quickly. All right, all right. The front top has band collar, front pockets, long cuff sleeve and shaped hem. So kind of like your military look here. With a silky. Vibe. So just like a dressy dress shirt. All right, shally, crepe machine, double georgette. Half inch buttons. Couple yards of fabric. Yeah. No big deal, guys. Nothing new. All right. Next up, we've got a sweater. Mrs. Top. Mrs. Pullover Top has collar, neckline and sleeve variations. Lovely little cable knit here. It looks like these might be faux. I mean, maybe they're all like, not faux buttons or real buttons, but like non-working. You know, like, I don't know. I guess maybe these could be functional. But what would these be for then? Oh, because they clipped this thing. Let's see. More pictures before I start. Making assumptions about things. So yeah, you still can't tell if they actually function or work, but the little shoulder detail with the buttons is quite cute. You've got this sleeve too that we've seen a whole bunch in the last, I don't know, a couple years. Curved hem. I think that must be the one the woman was wearing before. I like it. Really chic looking. Okay. Here it is in the back. Are there buttonholes? Drum roll, please. No buttonholes. So I think it's just mostly just a detail. I do like the one with the contrast though. That's really nice looking. Fabric would be French terry and sweater knits. Also 35% crossgrain jerseys and interlocks. And then top A is one in seven eighths. So it's top B and top C is one in three quarters of the yard. Plus some extra bandage. Extra fabric for bands. Which I guess for that you would use like some kind of solid jersey or something. That looks really nice. Next we have, oh this looks cute. Mrs. Top. Mrs. V-neck top has center front pleat. Gathers at front and back yokes and sleeve variations. So hard to tell with this print. That looks like an awfully big cuff. But you have this V-neck with the little pleat in the front. Shoulder gathers at the forward shoulder. Look how cute that is. I love that. I love the sleeve. I love the sleeve with the V. That just to me is like boom, boom, boom. Super cute. I'll be getting this one for sure. But I don't know about that one. But I do really love the short sleeve version a lot. Tucked in is nice. Here's your yoke with the gathers. This one's adorable. I love that. This one could be better maybe if it weren't in like gold charmous. You know what I mean? It could be cute too. Because I don't like to buy patterns if I just like one view. Yardage, shally, crape to sheen, double georgette. Yeah, all those lightweight drapey fabrics. And then you need buttons. I think just for the cuffs. Extra small to 2X all in one. Love that. One in three quarters to two and three eighths depending on the sleeve length. One in three quarters isn't that little top plus. You can make these into dresses too. Which I love that. Next up we have this little jacket. Not so little. It's actually quite oversized. Zipper front jacket has front pockets and a hood. Oh, it's like a grown on hood. There's that a seam there. Grown on sleeve for sure. And then has a sleeve attached below. Okay, grew pocket. And then this really interesting. Raw hem. Yeah, this is a Ponty with a raw hem. How interesting. Okay, here's this version. Okay, there is a seam here. This time they put the twill tape in, which is a nice detail. And they hem. So it just depends on your fabric choice. Actually, it looks like they just top stitched the zipper on. This is the zipper tape, not a twill tape. So there's that. I don't know. What do we think? I think it's kind of cool. I like how like voluminous it is at the bottom. Certainly it's got to be comfortable. Nice big hood. This Ponty in particular is just so drapey. It makes it a little bit more cape like. I think I prefer the sweatshirt fleece one, this one here. I think that sweatshirt fleece. Yeah. Oh no, that is a, I can't tell what it is. Cool though, right? Different shape, different take on a sweatshirt. Or on a hoodie. Kind of like not your teenager's hoodie, which I really appreciate. All right, yardage, interlock, French cherry, jersey and sweatshirt fleece. And also Ponty. Two yards of cording or ribbon. A separating zipper and then. So A has a separating zipper and B has a dual separating zipper. I thought a dual separating zipper zippered from the bottom and the top. But neither of these do that. Oh no, it does. Weird. So you could never are fully unzipped, right? Or if you unzip this all the way down, does it come apart? I've never used a dual separating zipper before. Even more of a reason for me to want to give this one a try. All right, all in one envelope, extra small to 2 XL. We've got two and a half yards of fabric and really no finished garment measurements. Okay, cruising right along. So now we have, I guess it's this skirt. Mrs. Skirt and Sash. Princess seemed skirt in two lengths. A has a side zipper, love a side zipper. And B is wrap front with button closure and sash. So this is a waistbandless skirt. Meaning it just has like a facing on the inside. Nice clean look on the outside, doesn't add any extra bulk. Well, that's adorable. Like a wrap buttons, like working buttons here. I think these are all faux and then it ties. That's really sweet. Now this girl has a waistband. Or maybe that's just showing the facing on the inside. Yeah, the princess seems are really nice, even better than darts, I would say, because you're able to get all the shaping through the back exactly where you need it. Like sometimes the darts can be too short or too long. Princess seems allow you to fit it pretty much perfectly. Another cute one, you guys. I told you I really liked butteric. All right, yardage. So shawly, lightweight wool, wool blends and crepe. I mean, yeah, if you're making this for the fall, you can use those heavier weight fabrics, but it's really a year round design. I mean, chambray in the spring and summer. You know, all of those like those specialty cottons or cotton blends in the summertime would be perfect too. All right, here we've got some more questionable lengths and sizes. Links on zippers and sizes of buttons, maybe one inch, maybe seven inch, who knows. 6 to 14 and then 16 to 24 on the size range. Two yards of fabric for the plain front skirt and then three and an eighth for the wrap skirt because it's a wrap and princess seams and that one's a little bit longer. So you can shorten it and certainly get it under three yards. Maybe, maybe two and a half depending on if your fabric is like extra wide, but you're probably going to be close to three yards for that one. The sash too. All right. Now we've got, I think these joggers, Mrs. Pants. Yeah. Pull on pants with elasticized waist pockets and hem variation. So these are putts and pants through and through again, kind of been done. We've got the drawstring, the front patch pocket or at least top stitch pocket and then casing on the bottom as well. She's got no elastic and a really funky finger. No elastic anywhere. That is what the model's wearing. And impressively, normally these joggers, especially with the elasticized waist are not very forgiving on the backside. This doesn't look so bad. A lot of times we get like a lot of diaper, but these seem to either have some shape through here or something because that doesn't look near as bad as I've seen it before. I want to know more about A. Let's look at the line drawings. I guess it's just a knit band still. Hmm. This I get. No elastic. And this is what it ends up looking like this with no drawstring, no elastic. Yeah. I guess it's just a really stretchy knit band with really good recovery. Let's see if they recommend a specific notion for that. So, Ponty sweatshirt, please. French terry velour. Yeah. Bringing back the 90s. Or I guess that would be like early 2000s. Interlock and then maybe one inch elastic. So that's A. So is A the... Yeah. A is the flat front one. Huh. I'd have to look at the instructions on that to see if the elastic is... I'm just confused. Because B has elastic as well. They don't even give an inch. They don't even know what kind of elastic you need for B. But that certainly need two different types of elastic for these, right? Or maybe A is just narrower at the waist. And so you just... It doesn't like gather around as much. I don't know. I'd have to look at it. Extra small to medium and then large to 2X. That's for both of them. And no finished garment measurements. Hey, next up we've got another pair of pants with a sash. Slightly tapered leg pants have zipper front closure, pocket variations and sash. Alright. So these have the patch pocket, felt carriers with the sash, front fly. And yeah, that's a pretty gentle taper. These have a cuff, which is really cute. I love a cuff on a tapered pant because it kind of balances out your hip. Like gives you your eye something to see on the bottom and gives it like some bulk. So rather than it being wide at the hip and then super narrow at your ankle, it kind of gives a little bit of something, a little bit of heft at your ankle to balance out your hip. That said, these pockets typically make wider hips look even wider. So maybe opt for the other pocket, but the cuff is a really good detail for those of us that are pear shaped. Here is one, I guess that's what the model is wearing. Nice fit. Happy with that. Although it might be a little small through here, not small, but a little like she needs some fabric taken out. Alright. Cute. Cute, cute. This slim figure, these pockets work wonders to give you kind of some more curves than you actually really have. Alright. Yardage wise, let's see what fabrics they recommend. Poplin, twill, linen, broadcloth and stretch woven. Seven inch zipper, waistband hook and eye and then two buttons for B for the little pocket buttons. And then two and a half yards or two and a quarter yards depending on the version you are making. Alright, now we've got, is this a jumpsuit? Yup, jumpsuit, sash and belt. Zipper front jumpsuit has hood or collar, long sleeves, sash or belt and tapered legs with or without elastic cups. So I think we're going for like a little bit more of like street style situation here. She has the collar, set in sleeve, look how low that sleeve looks. That's the belt, zippers all the way down and then just your regular hem there. This girl is ready to rock it in the 80s, right?  Here is the backside. Sorry about my voice. Looks pretty good, a little bit long through here but pretty good. The seat looks good too. So that's it, yeah you only get like a couple of variations here on this one. There's our line drawings. Yeah, I don't know about a sweatsuit jumpsuit. It could go onesie, like really easy. She wanted her onesie to target. And then you're like, oh no, I guess it's clothes. And then you're like, but is it? So 35% stretch fabrics like Ponty, French Terry, sweatshirt, fleece, velour and jersey. Elastic D-rings and a zipper. And then yardage is like up to four yards, yeah that makes sense. That makes sense, all right. Let's see, oh just a couple more. All right, so this is a knit, dress, top, skirt and pants. So this I feel like should have gone at the beginning. But this is raglan sleeve, dress and tops have gathers at shoulders and sleeve variations. Pull on skirt and pants have elastic size weights. All right, let's see. So it's a little knit top, possibly doleman with a band on the bottom. Oh, maybe raglan. Yeah, raglan. Look how cute that is. I love little sweater knit dresses like this in the fall. Oh, that's kind of cool and cute for like post pandemic situation. I like the gathers in the raglan. I like this one. You also get this pant they're calling it, more like tights if you ask me, but you can sort that out on your cutting table. Yeah, I love the top, I love all three of these for sure. This I could make, especially if you made it into like a set, you know, with matching fabric top to bottom. That way you had three different outfits. And then these I probably, I would either figure out how to make them more ruby with a lot more wearing ease or just forget them. Plenty of jogger patterns on the market. They look good in the front. The back was a little bit like, I don't know, tight. And she doesn't have near the backside I've got. So there's always like in these videos you guys will comment on like what was really funny and made you laugh out loud. There's always one, right? There's always one thing where Lindsay just like completely forgets that people are listening. Just say things that just come to mind. That was probably it. Okay. So moderate stretch knits, 35% stretch, jersey, interlock, potty, fridge, cherry and sweatshirt fleece. We've got one inch elastic and then courting or twill tape. And that's just for the skirt and the pants. Small, I'm sorry, extra small to two X all in one. Two and an eighth of a yard for the dress. One and a half yards for the short sleeve. Two yards for like the sweatshirt type one. The skirt is seven eighths of a yard. So easily scrap buster left over from whatever you've got here. And your pants are two and one eight. So not bad. I really like that one too. I get I so okay now that we're at the end here, I can say because these are just family pajamas. We'll take a quick look at the pictures. Okay, cute little pajama dress, shirt and pants for the guys or the whole family. Cute. Go ahead and get that now when they go on sale for your holiday pajamas, right? All right. So what do I think? Okay. I do think that this is not necessarily the most revolutionary, most trendy, you know, memorable patterns in the world, but they do have some really great basics with a twist, which is what I think my style is most like. I think that that is what I am most drawn to. I like a basic, but I like it to be interesting. I like it to be like something you could see and ready to wear, but you maybe necessarily don't normally see and ready to wear. Probably going to pass on the two Palmer plushes this time. No to the onesie, but this is a yes for sure. I loved this. I quite liked that. I liked this little number. Talk about basics with a twist, right? I didn't mind the skirt at all. I actually could use some more skirts in my wardrobe. I love this little top. Presidential style. See, I know I'm not going crazy. She looks like Cobble up. All right. And that's it. Okay. So that's our lookbook. Like I said, basics with a twist, which is why I think I like Butterick so much. It's why I like so many of these patterns, probably more patterns from one collection that I've liked out of all of them just because they're just easy to wear, cute. When you wear them, people don't necessarily know that you made them, but are also like, that's so different. I've never seen that before. You know what I mean? Something like that. So that's what I like to sew. So of course, this makes sense to me, but let me know what you guys think in the comments section below. Otherwise, that's going to do it for me today. I hope I can bring some indies back, but who knows if we're going to get another big four collection in the next week. So we will see. But I will see you all very soon. Bye.