Okay, so it is it is 5 o'clock middle sex time. I Will call the meeting to order We need to first of all approve the minutes of the May 2nd 2023 Meeting is there a motion? Thank you, Randy second Victor. All those in favor Hi, anybody oppose Okay, we've approved their minutes And I forgot to welcome our guests. I apologize Again, would you introduce yourselves, please just for the recording? Yeah, okay. Thank you Lister yeah, we've got listers you're officially you two are officially listed You're you're in here with the rest of us reviewing and amending and approving the agenda for tonight's meeting May 16th, and we've made it our practice to get a motion on that as well. Are there any amendments to the agenda? Yes Is it on the bottom no Oh, yeah, okay. No, that's good Is there a motion to approve the agenda? Thank you, Victor is there a second Liz or Randy All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Hi any opposed, okay And we are now on to the interesting and to me slightly confusing subject of reviewing and approving proposals for town-wide property appraisal Listers to attend welcome listers So what I could you've got copies of everything, right? Yes, we do So when I say I found this confusing all I meant was trying to compare the two was confusing because This is pretty yeah, that's pretty big. We have we send out pretty basic and this is Four or five different companies And the only ones that we got back any work from was the one pager and never cool has We've got their software in here right now that we use for The camisole and the one pager we did not send it to a solicitor they reached out to us Yeah, okay, but I'm just doing the price comparison between the two member kids Pitching that they're going to charge us $105,000 of which would be 43 75 a month starting to July of 2024 for 24 months The other gentleman the residential ended up being 89,800 non-residential 35,000 so be a hundred twenty-four thousand eight hundred for for use at him But talking to our district advisor right now Nemerick is what the state of Vermont uses for their My my tax all their software four years ago They went to Vermont pie and they've been trying to get this up and running sense Well, this year we're working with both Nemerick and Vermont pie to get all the like the homestead taxes in and everything for property taxes If Going for next year. There will be no member. It's going to be Vermont pie only according if everything goes As a wish they've told us that before but that's what they're hoping for that That hasn't happened yet But if we use Nemerick for the townwide reappraisal, we're already using their software for Microsoft which stops the Vermont pie What I think we should do is also continue to use it Nemerick And of what I would do if they're going to do the time what the reappraisal for us is I'll ask them How much they're going to charge us begin the next year for Nemerick Which our DA doesn't think it would be much because we're using them for the townwide reappraisal So it kind of be a one-win because they're still going to need something to talk to Kama to talk to the state's no system and the thing is right now Kama Kama Microsoft is Nemerick, but there's like Patriot vision There's a whole bunch of other ones out there that and that's probably what the listeners were talking about three four years ago When I thought this was going to be up and running in like in one year So what I would like to do is if it's approved for Nemerick to do our townwide is that first get us in the list Because our CLA being so low that's going to protect us for the stage when staff are back Because they know that we've already got it in there for a townwide reappraisal And the plan would be the reappraisal would start a year from now 2026 that's how backed up everybody is yeah, yeah, and that's what they said in there They're proposing that the we start paying July 20 24 and They're going to start field review then and then it'll be till May of 2026 and then June of 2026 is when So it's going to be a while out there anyway and most other places is 2027 is that whether I mean 2027 is what they're saying it's going to be Just to get somebody yeah, and and I've said in the RFP out that we didn't even get replied back Well, everybody's everybody's booked. Yeah, yeah The ring that how much money do we have in our fund? for reappraisal yeah I know do we or is that that special fun? Yes Actually, I just got something I think on that. Let me see if I can get into it also while we're we are we pay A flat rate to NEMRIC which covers all of our software package, whether it's Lister You know accounting, you know dog licenses anything and that's only like $5,000 a year See what I have because I had in my head that we had almost a hundred thousand we might yeah Yeah, we don't have anything in the budget Separate it's a separate account. It's not in the budget. I Can look that's all right Something just barely came through if you could just send us a quick email or whatever and just let us know how much is in there My memory was that we thought we were going to be okay, and it sounds like we are And it sounds like they'll spread it out where it's not only one on some to me Now today once we I think I got a question go ahead. I can't wait till you don't know I was just going to say so once we sign this contract The price is fixed right they can't change it Well Oh if they're more parcels, they yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean they can't change the base price Yeah, I saw that yeah We sent the RFPL we had said June 1st. We needed it by noon So I mean tentative I could let them know but we've got to give every other senator. We said June 1st Okay, so we shouldn't We shouldn't decide this tonight. We should wait. So what you're saying. Yeah, okay You're saying that you're not We should decide we could decide the first meeting and Yes, except except for if the parcel count changes, yeah I get a couple Pardon my ignorance, but I Thought Listening to the news and I thought the state was going to do the reappraisals That's that's up on the board, but Talk to the state it sounds like what they're gonna do is have their hand in it where you can only use appraisals a Prova that's the H 140 or whatever one yeah in front of there right now Yeah, I think I misunderstood that too because I thought they were taking over all the yeah I'm gonna cost a lot more than what it's gonna cost When I was looking at what they were going to say it would cost each town but I think my understanding is that They will have an approved list of appraisers So I thought the whole idea of that was to get everything statewide uniform on what how you were assessed Yeah, and that's still that's that's right now. It's kind of rocky that keeps going up in front of the legislative and it's And it has not passed. Okay, and then yep Okay, and then the the other Question is so you're saying this might not come through until 2026 That's how back up there. Okay, and when they replied they think they could get to us So they'll have Possibly are Reappraisal done by 2026. Yes. Is that like December of 2026 June 1st June 1st So that would affect our taxes for 2027 April 1st is a cutoff. All right Okay So I know you know I talked to Art Wolfe and he says it's there's really no problem with like these houses that are Selling for one and a half times what they're listed for He convinced us all this. There's no problem. You're not paying anymore Those houses automatically get once it sells doesn't something happen. No Not to the total There's no random like Nope, is that our town or is that every town every time I think that's the law. It's called chasing taxes Yeah Wait, what do you say this two people have houses exactly the same or hundred thousand dollars and then one guy sells it for 150 that they're still only paying on a hundred thousand dollars Until it gets reappraised till it gets reappraised, right? And then the other house gets reappraised, too. Yeah This is probably putting the car before the horse but in the event that We may be undergoing renovations at this time If everything goes as planned for the town hall, is it crucial that they have office space? Like is that a big deal for them to have office space? Yeah, yes, they want to use our office And I'm just you know all I'm saying is that if we're do undergoing renovation and people are working different spaces We just might have to plan on Fitting them right in our office. Yeah, well, we're gonna have to have a listed office somewhere anyone. I know that's what I'm just gonna make sure Yeah, we'll make sure you don't have a phone booth up in the snow bank Just something to remember because this normally this isn't happening, but it could happen right could overlap So my I guess my takeaway from this and we can we can discuss it again in June is right Nemerick looks like what we want to do for all the reasons we've discussed Nemerick is certainly the devil. We know not the devil. We don't know so To some extent they're gonna have to make us happy one way or the other. Yes, Sarah State economist So we will take does anybody have any questions about any of that I have one question yes I'm on comment So if we sign the contract sooner did we get in line any sooner or it doesn't have any impact? No impact already the dates are already already fixed. Okay, and we only have 52,000 in the account We've gotten whatever this year's contribution is to that That's to date as of April But I mean we get it once a year right Well, I think we get it according to Isn't it we earn so much on every recording fee Sarah That doesn't have anything to do with it Do you know how that money goes I honestly don't know but I mean this is through April I would assume we've gotten our appropriations But sounds like we're gonna have two more years I'm gonna I'll I'll research this for the next meeting and find out The money Yeah, because I honestly don't know I haven't been part of a reappraisal before so I don't know how this all work Okay, but I think my memory is once a year we get a We get money, but I could be wrong about that And that money comes from the state. Yes And it has to go into that fun we can't use it So with that unless anybody else has anything we'll move on for tonight So next is the uh far department Jeff's on his way I'm sorry. Jeff is on his way. Okay So we'll pass over that for a moment and get back to them. So highway. Yes Nothing major to report on we had an issue with the chloride truck last week it broke down I think I've got that fixed It was a fuel pickup tube in the tank that was the problem that holds in it Um We're pretty much for the most part caught up on uh grading. I think we will be by the end of the week Uh Waiting on an air valve for the international that started leaking today. I got one come in will be tomorrow morning and we'll change that out and uh I think that's about Oh, yeah, we changed the bushings on the greater blade where it rides Because they were they're made out of uh brass and they were worn out So changed those yesterday. So we're good to go on uh, I'm not sure. Is there anything else? You have two things on your agenda the rocks Oh, yes Yes, the north north first one. Yeah, those are moved So the bowlers have been removed. Yes. Okay. Thank you. What are the concerns?  Yeah, I know but what did someone say? Yes Yeah, oh, yeah, I got a call and an email from someone saying that they were upset that the boulders were still there But now they've been removed. Yep. They're not supposed to be walking on those trails anyway yet Unhung around any of the trails. I don't know what they're still wet the dates are Anyway, I don't think they're dates. The other end is gone too. So both so that I have not checked the set I didn't check it out. It's all a little good. There was never rocks on the other end. No, I don't think no, they're barricades There was a barricade. Really? I don't remember that. The blocks. I don't remember seeing one. I'll go double check it But I don't remember seeing one there. I've been biking it. I don't see any problems Any news on everybody's favorite subject the chipper? So I I'm working on numbers for the engine right now. I think we have a solution That's not going to cost nearly as much But I don't have the numbers back yet. Okay, and that's for what are used Well, I I've got a free used one, but it needs to be rebuilt But it's better shape than what was on the chipper. So that block was that block cracked? Yeah, I believe it had to been because I couldn't find any other cracks anywhere else for the coolant to get into the oil So this one it was not cracked, but it it needs some attention, but it was free It's cool I like that The parts in the labor aren't free, but no, but it's being considerably less. Yeah That's good. Is that that rebuild something you have somebody that I will do it to do you do I'll have to have the machine shop do work on the block, but we can put it together Sarah Don't forget about the certificate of compliance for the road and bridge standards. That's also yeah I don't you're also. Yes. I think I just signed a couple So we have a Certificate of compliance for town road and bridge standards network inventory We the legislative body of the municipality of middle sex certify that we have reviewed and understand and comply with the town road and bridge standards Slash public work specifications and standards passed and adopted by the select board City councilor village board of trustees July 9th, 2019 further. We certify our adopted standards Do meet or do not meet the exceeded minimum requirements as of June 5th included in the June 5th 2019 state approved 10 we further certify That we do or do not have an up-to-date highway network inventory Which identifies the location size deficiencies condition of road bridges cosway culverts Highway related retaining walls on class one two and three town highways And an estimated cost of repair So I guess the first question is is the answer to both of those do or do not boys We're not a hundred percent in compliance, right? Especially in head walls Especially what? So you say do not Well the first one is do or do not Do our standards meet or exceed the state approved template? I presume they do they do So that's a do And then the second one is we further certify that we do or do not have an up-to-date highway network inventory We certify we do or do not That is correct I I do believe that we do have an updated inventory Okay, yes, we do Yeah, we have an estimated cost of repair for any deficiencies So that's that's included in that second, sir. Yeah, you haven't finished the sentence Yeah, I mean I could know I meant that you didn't finish the The second time I didn't I don't think you want to say no where you could jeopardize your chance. So you say yes. Yeah, I say yes I think we I think we say do yes, we keep our fingers crossed. Don't yeah, I was just going to say cross your finger Just say yes no carters little liver pills required So is there a motion to approve the certificate of compliance? I move that we Prove the certificate of compliance. Thank you, Victor. Is there a second 2023? Come on, Bridget I just I'll only speak if I have a strong feeling Okay, well, I wait. I guess my like what is this for this is for this allows us to go for grants Okay, but what is this section here that's has um So are you on a yearly basis supposed to identify location size deficiencies and conditions of road bridges culverts and how We related retaining walls on class one two and three and estimated cost of repair correct And we have to We're also agreeing to use the state of vermont Um Statues for road and bridge Maintenance so that inventory has been done up to this point right this coming year. We have to do a new inventory But that inventory has been done to this point. But are are you still in compliance? Yes, we are then I think that Then we can say I'll second do okay That was that's my only concern. I don't want to be like No, we are no we are in compliance Okay, so it has been moved in seconded that we approve all in favor Bridget Bridget all in favor. I'm sorry. Hi. Hi post This also sounds like maybe it's something that belongs on the um Capital Standing plan about how much it estimates the cost of repair. Although not really because that's not infrastructure. This is more like No, that stuff. Yeah, agreed doesn't belong. Okay Okay Yes I've received uh inquiries from people on perth road about low hanging branches And I thought I could just get this in the minutes to say what is the road cruise policy on low hanging branches Not fall in the ground Cut them if they're hitting vehicles Yep, so we'll go cut them. I should call the tree warden I'm sorry. I should call the tree warden Yeah, you're probably right There are a couple of hangers I just cut one out of portal of this morning. Yeah. Yeah Here comes Jeff. Perfect. There you go. Wait, where'd he go? Did somebody close the door for me? I Hi, Jeff We're glad to see you and you're up No waiting. What's high We're a little we're a little ahead of schedule for once. It doesn't happen We're glad to see you Glad to be here Um, so you should have gotten this already. Yeah, um Any questions before I get going over? Uh, we're about the same calls Last month of seven this month of six We're up to 30. Um Our response number response Number of responses way up Um We only have one that was two And the reason for that was it was canceled right after we got the call The state police were going by the supposed scene and canceled us. So We otherwise we probably would have had more on that Um, the big thing is we had two mutual aid calls out And we had one in that was for traffic control on route 12 when that tree blew down Uh took out a power line and Took a while for them to get get it all fixed.  So it was a real good exercise exercising all the vehicles and working together Um for work night, we washed off some bridges That also in addition to helping out the road department it Gets people to have hose in their hand and using the hose and directing where it goes And exercising the equipment again, which is good to do We did have a an air leak on engine six that had to be repaired. So we had to get them come to us This m6 is not something to be likely towed And uh, we got that all fixed and then a Oxygen sensor went bad on one of our gas meters. They last about two years and then they died And it uh, I did a the test on it last month and it passed And then they had Somebody had turned it on just to check that see if it needed charging and it had failed. So it goes that That Better that than it received. Oh, yeah And the thing is you can bypass the oxygen sensor to still use the carbon monoxide detector part of it So it's it's still usable. It's just been annoying thing to get around and take some time No current purchases um that we did last month and We got an estimate on the rescue and I sent an email back to the guy on the price for 279 for A chassis in a box that seems a bit much for me. I'm hoping I made a typo And so we'll see see what gets back from them. We're obviously going to be checking out another company or a couple of companies as well That just seems really high We did have the I'm sure you saw the front porch forum notices about the Joining the fire department make me a firefighter thing So we were open from nine to one like this like the whole statewide thing wanted us to be we had Two two individuals and a family show up the family was more to see the trucks But planning the seed that maybe when they don't have such small children They can get involved in the fire department One of the other people I think is Going to be a real good asset for getting on seeing how he's on the road department So and he lives in middle sex. So two pluses he works here and he lives here The other person will see what turns out That's good though. Yeah, we had we had some interest. So that was a good thing The big news for the fast fight is we have a new emt Patty's passed her practical exam. So she's now a state licensed emt So that ups the interest We had four total reports for the period Which was down BMS wise quite a bit three of those were medical onlys and then one was involved with a accident The one on the interstate that was cancelled But that's about it. Nothing really exciting. Did you have any? We had a capital fire mutually meeting tomorrow so All right, there's nothing I haven't seen anything exciting going on that other than they're going to adopt the bylaws things that you saw the draft over the radio operations We did make an input to that to I think it was just a forget thing about having Fast-quad numbering in the in the mix of the various types of numbering Because there are some we're not the only department that has fast-quad only members. So you need a a number an f number for them and They just didn't put it in the scheme of the call number So it kind of confused capital s a little bit and I happened to catch it because I was working on Our roster with them and stuff and well, but there aren't there aren't f numbers. It's like what? We need to have We straighten that out Good Any questions questions anyone? Yeah, Victor. What's the connection between the The fire warden and the fired apartment Anything I mean because right now you're not supposed to burn Together what do they call that? Yeah, there is a ban on burning right now. There's a red flag morning or whatever they call it Yeah, you know what they call it. Yes Yeah, I was just waiting He is not Technically, I don't believe he's technically on the No, he used to be he used to be yeah, but that's not a requirement. No to to beat the fire warden. Okay So now we have him working because there's when there is uh burn permits, especially invisible areas He lets us know. Yeah good So that we know that it's a permitted burn one of the calls we got was on on route two Somebody driving by with a cell phone on the interstate We should put cell phone jammers up I think there are three fires burning and calls it in but they don't do they stop running you just keep on going Um, and it was a permitted burn Can I just ask a question? It's not an actual permit. He gives right? He just says yes Because whenever I've called him he just says yes, it's okay. I don't get a permit The other thing the other thing I've learned is if there's three calls if you don't get a return call I just say I'm planning to burn on saturday if it's a problem. I've texted him he and he'll respond to text He's pretty good A couple of things jeff I didn't get your report. So if you don't mind setting that to me Okay I don't know why I was left off the list Um, I sent him to the town clerk. So I'll send it when I get back from this one. Okay um the uh uh, the fire of the Jason Merrill is licensed is picked by the state you guys pick them and then we tell it's That under the state's purview is hardly enough And I have just a general question from fire department. Do you guys have any concerns about lithium ion batteries and their explosion Explosions and keep hearing these stories about fires in the area Yes, and is there anything that we should be telling the public about that? I would not put a battery bank in my house. In fact, I hopped it not to Because it's essentially you can't put it out until lithium is done burning And With the green mountain power thing both Green mountain power and tesla said we're not responsible for anything happens to your house um I had an attorney look at that just to make sure I was reading it what What I thought it meant and he said yep if that thing explodes and burns up Your your insurance company is on the hook for it. You can't put them outside Um once they do torch off They're pretty much a runaway system and a leaf Will take about 4 000 gallons of water to put out the car leaf So as you get bigger batteries, it takes significantly more water And really what you're doing is protecting the pavement or concrete underneath From melting down You really can't put out the lithium and there's no extinguisher substance to my knowledge to put out lithium Fires but you have lithium and like a lot of things right like laptops and A lot of power tools stuff like that. Should people be storing them in a certain way or be sure they don't get in touch with water Or they shouldn't constantly be charging They shouldn't once once they're full up unplug them And don't leave home like don't plug your stuff in and like go home to go away for them Like those are things that like I'm very conscious about like with my lawn mower battery and stuff like that We don't just charge it and leave And like those and I think when you did sort of the cheaper items you get like The scooters from china like that that those are the ones that Are burning apartments down because people are plugging them in and they're starting on fire Or they're just not around that happened literally at my son's apartment like there was a fire next door from a scooter Wow Thank you Yes, I actually installed tesla power walls and and phase battery backup systems for a while and We actually had to go through special safety training on how to explain to people that we were installing bombs In their homes and to not put a blanket over them because it's not just that they overcharge It's that if they If you suffocate them with boxed items if you cover them with blankets because you don't like the sound of the cooling fan There's all kinds of other hazards that can cause them to overheat Overheating can cause them to actually explain That's why they're built inside of steel casings to try to reduce the damage when they happen I can tell you insurance companies are trying to figure out what to do They know they can't Do you have to tell them they'll never Just let me finish I don't think the department of bank insurance would allow them to exclude coverage For lithium ion batteries or power walls, but I can tell you they're thinking about a surcharge in the right Because I know they consider it to be a serious risk So anyway, good question. Um, yes, pretty, um the energy fair When is that happening less? Has saturday? It's this saturday. So maybe there's materials at the energy fair to that's a good idea and then Just because I currently have a lawnmower battery plugged in right now Maybe you should leave now Let's talk about the um the general risk person the persa Just aren't the isn't it and maybe i'm wrong about this But my understanding on things like lawnmowers and cars when the batteries charge the charger turns off Yeah, it's a pretty new still. I did it more of these. Yeah, it's more of these Scooters and and inexpensive things. I know my power tools When you plug them in they turn off when they charge when they're fully charged So if it's something purchased relevant relatively recently of the name brand I don't have to leave now, right? But i'll tell you like when it's when my mower because we are since like four years old now our electric mower Yeah, I just sometimes I pull out the battery and it's it's hot You know and it's never been hot when i'm charging it like it's not like I charge it. It's suddenly hot, but like You know and that's like in this in in the summer and the heat of summer when it's working really hard and stuff like that So you just you said be mindful of it, right? And I wouldn't leave them unplugged and go away for the night, right? Like That just makes me nervous Well, it's also because these scooters it's not good for the battery to leave it charging all the time They're supposed to shut off the charge Lethium doesn't have a memory like like uh nickel metal hydrate does But it's still like the When we get radios and pagers From the uh distribute the supplier up in burlington. They have a thing on Battery basically battery etiquette of As soon as it's charged pull it out on the charger That's you're only supposed to leave it in there for the charging and that's it So if you even if the the charger is supposed to turn off How many times the electronics misbehave? Yeah When the light turns green Pull it out Thank you They're trying to protect themselves as well. Well, it's good luck It keeps us from having to buy as many batteries. Yeah. Yeah anything else for the fire department Thank you very much. Sure thing. Good timing and Moving right along continued review and updating of the town personnel policy and sarah was nice enough To incorporate our changes Tobacco use Okay Tobacco use a book's fine to me. Anybody think there's anything we need to change there section 12 Performance evaluations Is that not something we want to institute as like a part of an employee's Experience with a ton of middle sex having annual reviews I know it sounds like more work and it is more work and I don't like doing annual reviews Maybe there But I also know that it's important to have them if you need it for like You know There's a reason why you need to terminate an employee if you've never done a review And you're not addressing issues and documenting them it can become problematic I think what we do do and correct me if I'm wrong, but where we have had problems We document the problems But I think our reviews have been inconsistent. Is that a fair word? I guess it's yeah, I mean I guess without having reviews You can't go back and say, you know, you were doing well You know over these last few years and then or the employee can't go back and say You know, I've done x y and z over this time period my performance evaluation shows this If all we're showing is you know, sort of the negative stuff that comes up again I'm not I know what it's like to do I I despise doing employee evaluations, but it is some something that Does have some value to it. Is there paperwork that you follow? So it's standardized so that it's uh Yeah, like we have an evaluation form, right? So you check off the boxes To my knowledge we do not have yeah, I mean they they're cookie cutter You can create them and then you just have a record and bang bang boom Yes, and then you're done And then they don't have to be it's not like they're going to be setting goals, right? My goal is to you know plow 20 roses. That's not going to be it but and then follow question if they If it's wrapped in the The positive feedback Oreo, so it's good stuff negative stuff Good stuff again maybe that we structure the the we that we we structure the Standardized form in that format so it gives people a good enough Yeah, I mean it's basically it allows you yeah, you can have it either way You could just be like what are the strengths of this employee What does this employee do well? And then where are areas of improvement that this employee could have yeah, and that's where you could say well, you know You this is an opportunity where you could say, you know joe You seem to be rough with the clutch on this truck so We'd really like to see you driving more slowly or you know, whatever I don't know. I've never seen one of those. We've never I've never you never in in the state gave an employee review Oh, I wouldn't say that. No, I've never seen it since I've been oh, yeah, I don't think we have it. No, I don't think we don't have it Yeah The only other thing I can see both sides of it. Yeah. Oh, I can see both sides of it too and I'll get you in a minute project Uh, if we're gonna do this we need to do it for all 10 employees So not just probably yeah I don't know. I'm not I don't want to open up a can of worms. I'm just saying that They're they do have some of us And the only other comment I would make is having done a lot of employee reviews over the years hundreds of them And for I have found them useful for new employees worthless for older employees I mean, what do you what do when you've had somebody working for you for 25 years and you say the same thing every year What's the value? So to me it's a challenge. I know I've been to all kinds of HR Seminars and they will say oh my god if you don't do employee reviews You're leaving yourself wide open for you know all kinds of all kinds of problems. Well in 44 years I never had a serious problem due to not having an employee review and in recent years we did employee reviews Yes so Couple different facets to this conversation for me one the existing policy, which is what we're talking about here today Allows for those performance evaluations to be done. They're they're not required, but they can be done From a I guess I posed the question if we're going to institute required performance evaluations that mean anything Are we prepared to separate and look at compensation and tied to these evaluations because if we're not Providing employees with evaluations that are simply just to check a box It doesn't mean anything to them and we can always write If it's a matter of trying to track the performance or the negative performance of an employee so that You know we can say hey, we've warned you we've warned you we've warned you again. This allows for that I just think my personal feelings on evaluations is one as a manager if If somebody's doing well And you need to put it on paper eventually I feel like it's From an employee standpoint, they're looking at you like what value you're doing this for If you're not if you're not providing me anything if somebody else is Is getting any kind of the same compensation? Change as I am through a cold or anything else and nothing's tied to performance. What good is it? right, and I will tell you I tried over the years all kinds of listening to that argument all kinds of paper performance type things like where We would have a range of raises and you'd either get the highest raise or the lowest raise in the middle And boy that is really a can of worms and if anybody thinks that everybody doesn't find out what everybody else got Think again Think again. They do and it causes more resentment than positive I can tell you that and I finally gave up About 10 years ago. I just said i'm not doing this anymore You know we may have we may have differential raises, but You know we're not going to have a formal process where we check off boxes and say because you did You met this objective and that objective and this other objective you get an X percent raise whereas Somebody who only met two out of three gets a lower raise It's just it's an I guess if you have a full-time personnel department And that's their job and they do that Maybe you can make it work, but when you're trying to do everything else you're trying to do every day For years. I did over 40 reviews every year And i'll tell you by the time you get to the 35th review. You don't care anymore. I spent weeks Meeting with employees. Yeah, so you know my my take on this is That's a bigger issue beyond the personnel policy the positive personnel policy says we can do it Historically we haven't done it if we're going to rethink this Liz We need to rethink it and I think that's part of a more complicated Conversation, but you know, it's a question of Who does it? How do you do it? Like does does eric do the road crew and The select board does the the office, I don't know You know and is it is it consistent between the two and I agree with 100 with your comment, randy That if you just if everybody gets the same raise anyway um It's kind of meaningless and if the only time somebody doesn't get a raise Is when they Are a substandard employee they're going to hear about that and have a warning anyway, right? And this allows This allows For the supervisor to do them if they feel like they're necessary So I think I think the existing policy where I was going with that is I think the existing policy Is fine. It allows us the flexibility and and change to make it requirement for me means that we need to take additional steps Right Sounds good Okay Yes, do you need job descriptions in order to possibly do a performance evaluation if there's no job description in place It's a good idea I thought we had job descriptions for No No No, I haven't seen one Didn't Didn't we put I thought we had something together when you advertise When you advertise you put together what you were looking for but we don't formally have any job description Of in place as part of our personnel right That's a very good point And I agree with With peter 100% it's you've got a person that it's for new people if you've got somebody around it's been around and been doing You know as a And then all of a sudden you get somebody in there that doesn't they have a personality thing you don't like them You can get a lot of money for that What's that? What do you mean?  I don't disagree that probably having job descriptions is a good idea um I think we did didn't we do a job description for our Our support for Cheryl Well, we put together what we were looking for and that wasn't a job Descript we were out looking for a full-time position that was in combining the assistant clerk and the bookkeeper position But they really should be two separate things. So Down the road if one of the person isn't going to be no, you don't do a combined No, you don't wouldn't do a combined job. You should have to do what you're doing, right? So and that's the same with anything other than You know, there's no evaluations involved with Any elected personnel. So you really are talking the road crew and currently Just Cheryl And your assistant clerk, but that would be it. Yeah, I mean anybody else is an elected person. I agree I heard Well, that's something we can again Think about in the future. I don't think we want to put in here that we are Going to institute. All right, let's go to number 13. Yeah Personal records I think that's fine Unless anybody sees something they don't like Use of town equipment or property for personal use is strictly prohibited. That's pretty clear and it's Correct, I would say Use of town computer system I think that hits all the bases as far as I know it does say that that Limited brief occasional personal use is allowed, which To think that that might not happen is unrealistic. So having it in there is important Might be uncontrollable Peter Can be uncontrollable If somebody if somebody contacts you This happened to me. Yeah last week. Yeah, okay Guy was trying to hire me I said, I don't think this is the place to do this and no, I don't do what you're asking And the expectation of privacy thing is important to have that in there The fact that we have the right to monitor any and all computer transactions is important Seems pretty standard. It is standard, but I think it hits all the bases. Yeah, absolutely. I don't think we need to change anything Unless anybody else does Oh, wait a minute. I'm I read the first page or I didn't read the second page You want to have something about the emails themselves like I don't use town computer system But my email that is the town email Um, oh except I'm not an employee Correct So maybe that doesn't matter. Yeah, you use you use your Private email, right? I use both. I don't know how to respond I get the emails forwarded to my regular email and I think that I respond to you on my regular email. I'm not sure But the point being that yes and But maybe that's not the place for this. This is about employees Oh Well, it's a personnel policy Right So are we personnel even though we're elected I think we probably are no Is she not you're not either Are you talking to she you Sarah? As our assistant she is I am a personnel when I step into my town clerk rule. I'm not same ditto for trick correct. Yeah. Yeah, okay Anybody have anything I think it's okay It's benefits like an employee 51% select board assistant and under that role she's an employee Under her clerk role she's an elected elected official not an employee But if she were an elected official for just you didn't have a clerk role are you saying we wouldn't give her benefits No, and she only worked so the town clerk But if they were 100 elected officials, she wouldn't get benefits. She has to work 32 hours a week in order to get benefits But because she does both positions No, I know but I'm saying other town clerks that work 32 hours that our elected officials still get benefits They would get benefits. All right So there's sort I mean, yeah, I guess I would assume But they don't have to follow the rules of the employees. I know they just have to do their job Yeah, I mean essentially I have to fulfill their their opportunities. Yeah But that's not in the employee policy that thing about getting benefits for 32 hours Well, some doesn't even apply to us for 32 hours. Um, there's one that is 24 hours you have to pay into The retirement if they work more than 24 hours a week. What I'm saying is That's documented No, that's the town policy that we consider a full-time employee eligible for benefits at 32 hours So that's on a different document I think I thought someplace that said where they were had to work for the very first page In a part-time employee's employee's works fewer than 32 hours per week on a regular and continuing basis And where's that? Section two page one It explains at the very beginning what they Yeah, perfect. All right. Thank you So I guess I'm just really being the devil's advocate the town clerk in her role as the town clerk could Break some of these rules like she could smoke In the building Well, that's a town policy. She could drift No, you can't you can't tell her what she's doing her job But you can if she was smoking in the building, you certainly it's just like you have a policy. Nobody can drink on the premises Um, I mean we did used to have people that smoked on the premises, but they didn't smoke within the building That's all right. That's a whole another subject. It's just it's humorous to so I do I do have a question And that is we've had for a long time that $150 Are you guys going to the next section? No, we're insurance and retirement benefits An eligible employee chooses not to take the health insurance coverage And has other coverage in force the town will pay $150 per month That's peanuts when you look at what the cost of health insurance is today And it is certainly to our benefit to incentivize people to take other health insurance options if they have them Spouse or whatever When I when I looked at this and the notes that I had it looked like and during the correct me of them wrong But it looked like the minimum contribution from the town Uh for any employee was $9,200 right the cost to the town So I had highlighted and made some notes in my in my copy on the computer That when we got to this section to talk about whether or not that buyout Was adequate and it seemed you know, what is that $1,800 a year? It seemed like we could that's an area where we could do better And Leaves opportunity for the town to save money if folks get insurance elsewhere. Yeah So I'm glad you brought that up because I have the same feeling So maybe we need to add language that says Something like currently The town pays 150. Well, I guess this says can change from any of these things can change from time to time anyway Time reserves the right to change insurance carriers. They had to lead amend insurance benefit programs had its sole discretion So that gives us a discretion to change that if we need to I want to But I think it jumped out of me just because I don't think that's enough I know it's an area that at my place of employment. It's a topic that I bring up Because I don't you know, I feel like a lot of places when there's significant financial game For the employee or for the employer or in this case the town Obviously we want these folks to have insurance But why are we Such a little buyout to me just feels inadequate Right. Well, for instance the typical situation and I was involved in this again for years and years and years You have somebody working for you and the spouse happens to be a school teacher and Our employee can be on the school teacher's insurance But they have to pay 50 of whatever the cost is sometimes 100 but Frequently, it's 50. Well 150 dollars is nowhere near 50 percent so You know, I had people I had people over the years who would say well Yeah, I can have insurance from my wife In fact, we have a family plan through my wife, but I want this health insurance, too And that's really a waste of money on all sides So anyway I'm suggesting at some point in time we increase that and I think it should be dramatically increased like maybe $500 or that's a lot But you don't want to be paying for their insurance someplace else Well, no, so I think you got to make it you got to make I know that's a lot But if it's if it's going to cost $9,000 for them to be on the other insurance I I think and I'm Out of it now. I'm not involved in this anymore. So I don't know what's going on now but what was going on before I retired was Employers were paying less and less for dependence and making the employees pay more and more And I think that's still going on from what I understand So For all the read the rates are going up and up they're going up food cross is going up another 14 percent That's a little more than the cost of living Oh, anyway, okay, everybody's favorite subject safety approved footwear highway department employees only So there's no change just be clear. There's no change on section 16, correct? Not at this time We agreed the 200 was fine, right? That was enough. Yes And it can just be boots. It can't be like I'll throw in a pair of socks Right, remember that? No, it's just just boots one pair. Okay So the the subject which came up in in meetings with the road crew was another them said they wanted to have uh lighter boots they could wear in the summertime and I think what we concluded at that time was You know that really If they're wearing summertime boots and they get $200 a year The heavy-duty boots all the last two years so $200 is enough and if they manage it they can have They can have both kinds of boots Buy one one winter one. Yeah summer But that is an issue with the road crew I don't know if it's still Certified as a lighter shoe that works My memory of that is in helping out your boys that there are steel towed summer Boots which are lighter and a lot more comfortable in the summertime than the winter boots They're more of kind of like a hiking boot style, right where you can get lower ankle, you know still meeting that specification Composito, I think they're called Peter can I ask a question? Yes, I'm sorry That was fun You guys are still cool with the ASTM f 124 13 hyphen 18 certification. I remember the last time we did this that was an issue That's still the standard. I'm looking at that right now. It looks to be sarah. Yeah, um at first glance here It looks like it still is Good Dress code. I would apartment employees only There's 11 shirts and 11 pants and two jackets still what we do and is that the right amount? Seems to work during the summertime do they allow for like Half orders pants and shorts because I know it allows for shorts and in here do they They don't supply shorts. So it's just the pants and this is what we get year-round Okay We don't get long sleeve shirts. It's just short sleeve shirts Okay So what do they wear in uh for shorts when allowed So that would be what somebody was just working as a truck driver, right? Truck truck truck driver or any other kind of cast kitchen is many guys in the truck all day long. Yeah Yeah equipment operation truck operation or administrative work I guess that looks okay to me You have anything on that Eric so I look right to you. Yeah Okay, safety equipment. We're good with that. You see anything there, Eric? Nope Holiday leave We don't have to give Juneteenth off Dewey. Is that that's a state? It's going on here I know but is that was it new? It's not that new two years maybe That's not a requirement. Is it if it's a state holiday that state workers? No, I mean we're not state workers, right? Okay, they're not state workers Okay, but that's not a federal holiday. It is a federal holiday. It is a federal holiday. Yeah, it is. Okay And so we just don't give it off We don't have to give off a holiday, right? Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, it's not on the list No, we don't have to. Okay Has there been any thought to uh, and that was a replace sorry You're going to need to cut you off, but that was that replaced what that old bennington day, correct? It was a floater to replace At our agency day, isn't that one? Yeah, we still get battle of anything today. They did that the state Isn't that what the state did? They replaced battle of bennington day with Juneteenth They did yeah, but we ended up well we did years ago was we gave the day after Thanksgiving instead of battle Yeah, so with with this battle of bennington where I was going with that was battle of bennington day wasn't on here So, yeah, okay. Yeah So what are you saying? Would you say about the bennington battle day? just that the State did the state when they established juneteenth as a holiday or whatever I think it was it was done as an in lieu of battle of bennington day Or you had the choice of which day you would celebrate or something like that Is what I was remembering But bennington battle day they get off. It's uh, columbus day. Yeah I thought it was columbus day. That was the floater And they don't give them columbus day off, but now they give them the day after Thanksgiving off I guess it really doesn't matter I don't see columbus day on here It's no columbus day. Okay. They took that off a few years ago. I think Oh for the state. Yeah, I don't think we're supposed to call it indigenous Should we change that Sarah I think we should change it Since I think they changed the name of it to indigenous people's day So we have an additional holiday in our package over above the state And that would be Um because the the day after Thanksgiving, right? We offer that to We have active things. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We offer it. They don't it looks like Oh, no, they do so you know, what is it then? So they don't have columbus day It's not listed as a floater or or an approved holiday I don't think schools have it either So that's the Okay, the other thing that is in here is important and it does come up from time to time The town has the right to consider previous relevant experience and determining vacation time for new employees That was always a bug, but you know, you can't you can't hire an experienced person and kick them back to two weeks vacation You'll never hire Yes, I'm sorry That schedule sounds reasonable and competitive to me Another question that always comes up is You know, so what's the benefit after 10 years You don't get any additional vacation. Yeah, I mean, I think ours our stops at some point too It's 15 years. I think but You know for me part of the conversation that I think about what I think of this section You know thinking about the road crew The road crew only Is where I've heard the complaints around, you know, just being able to utilize vacation time and What not? Is there interest among this board of exploring additional opportunities to You know, whether it's create some sort of buyout program or anything like that this comes up quite frequently Throughout the year and I just want to have this conversation now and I'll have to address it Any other time during the year? So I don't want to just pass over this section I want to bring up any of the the subjects that come up throughout the year.  It's important sure and You know to have people who are not going to take their vacation Because we'll agree to give them three quarters pay if they don't take their vacation or full pay Um, that's a mistake in my view Yeah, yeah, I'm wondering about having a minimum A minimum required take or use What we do and because we only allow them to carry over a maximum of 15 days But they're you know in year 10, which we've got some long-term employees, correct? I mean one that would fall into that Yeah Um And Sarah well, you know Earning 20 earning 20 days 20 days for the year, you know, that's four weeks of vacation I can speak for our department at work, you know, we're production oriented and a lot of times um You know the The attempt to use vacation time and whatnot is a struggle for for some So And I'm not I'm not advocating one way or the other I just want to have the conversation but it seems to me and I do support You know people taking vacation time if they want to um I can speak for myself that If I'm getting four or five weeks of vacation a year I take a week's vacation and then you know if I was held to two Plus the holiday package that's given I personally would would opt at the beginning of every year so you could capture it within the budget An open period where you select, you know, a buyout of leaving 10 days that need to be used With your carryover but that in the year 10 That leave two weeks of potential or 10 days Of potential buyout for that for that employee so they couldn't get bought out of the whole thing. They'd be required to use to Over and above their carryout um So I could maybe support something like that but I'd say employees should take a minimum of two weeks so the I do agree with newer people need to do that Me personally I I'd like to have a little bit on the books so that if something happens, I know i'm covered right To to buy out two weeks of my three I'm talking about so if you have a if you have the max carryover So if the carryover Was met and then you're this next year You're over and above that and you're at risk of losing that I wouldn't have any problems you know, some people Some people just use it and I you know, that's what it's there for they should be And again, maybe that's not a need to even have this discussion, but I want to bring it up now I know like you're saying like you're saying the a person at the end of the year has 10 days So you would pay him for that 10 days. No, that's not not necessarily exactly what i'm saying. So let's say and So the carryout the carryover is 15 days, right? Right? So in year one of your employment you are in 10 days Let's say you never take a vacation day Those 10 days roll into that into that next year right year two. You don't take a vacation So you're now at 20 days at the end of year one you're at risk of losing five days, right? If you're a person that if we set it up so that they had to take, you know The minimum of of two weeks or whatever during that time Then this becomes less of an issue But if somebody's not taking it and then they they end up having overages where they lose it I think it's a benefit to the employee to be able to come at budget time or in some sort of Open enrollment so you can plan for the cost of it to say Okay, if i'm if i'm here 12 years, you know, I get four weeks of vacation I'll use the two I've at my 15 days of carryover The other two i'd like to be bought out of you the person that always jumps on the bandwagon of the guy is selling his time wants to do this Because the existing policy does not allow. That's why I that's why I hammer on that so hard And it's an ish. That's the reason that I bring it up now is because It's the time to make this change if people want to make it And if there's no interest in in exploring that option, I'm actually fine with that Okay, but I just don't what I don't enjoy is I don't You know after budget's done or after, you know, this review process goes up all of a sudden You know, we're seeing constant, you know Effort or not even effort just you know, you get time sheets that come through and and we're having to deal with it all year So if it's an issue that we want to change I just want to change it now And not have to deal with it throughout the year That's that's where I'm going with this So I believe in the last iteration of this Policy or one of the last ones we allowed them to carry over the 15 days. Yeah, that's what this is before that before that We have not done that And I think that is that is fair and that's a reasonable request and it allows It allows the newer employees to build up time if they're trying to plan for You know a longer period of time for some special family occasion the other issue that comes up all the time And this is very typical in any kind of small organization is You know I want to take vacation in the wintertime. Well, no you can't Or you may not be able to I mean if you want to take a vacation day That's one thing but if you want to be gone for two weeks in the height of mud season that is not okay And uh, you know that to me is part of the road through job Right, you know, it's got to be reasonably managed by the by the by the supervisor, but or we need to plan And manage to make that an option So whether it's and I've suggested this in the past whether you have some you know Part-time employees or anything like that or if somebody if somebody goes out, you know If we've operated with three people in the past Can we get by with three people is there a reason that somebody can't take that's that's a judgment Can't I go weeks a week's vacation? I don't think that it's completely off the table. I I think no, this doesn't say it's off the table I'm just saying it's but it's subject subject to approval by the foreman or the select board or the hand or the select board up through the ranks And anybody working for a small organization. I don't care whether it's a rug crew or an insurance agency or town needs to realize that You've got to have coverage and you know, you're absolutely right If you have a four-person road crew and one person's going is that a problem generally? No, okay If it's the storm of the century, it's a problem if at the same time two people come down with a flu So now you're down to a one-man road crew then it's a real problem so You know, we deal with those things when they when they happen. Thank god they don't happen very often I I personally am against the idea of buying out vacation. I don't know how I look I think that I think, you know, you know, it's not nothing personal. I just I think that People should use Their vacation the idea of vacation time time off is for you to get rested up do do stuff that You know, you you enjoy to do That's why they call it a benefit. I think if somebody if somebody doesn't Want to take their time and and And if they get to the max You know, you'll lose it And I'm fine with that I just don't want to continue to have conversations in the middle of all these That's why are you talking about the day that the the the guy took off And made his time go up to 47 hours and then he said just a couple. Yeah, just different He wasn't by it. He was doing you. He was doing it. It was doing you A favor by taking that because he could never take it again Huh, not till next january, right I have a question so he wasn't really selling his time Um It's the same thing It isn't It is no and I agree. It's absolutely the same thing. Yeah But You're paying him for Not taking vacation And that is not in the budget where if it was done through it, why do you say he's not taking vacations? You're paying him. He took a day off.  So it's still it's still the same situation as I've got here the only The the one piece that I've brought up is you know through that policy and and just to be clear I'm not necessarily advocating for this. I just want to have the conversation about it Is that it would be done in an open enrollment period. So where you choose ahead of time? So it could be budgeted right Because it's not budgeted if you yeah, correct, but you're still paying it anyway You're gonna pay you can budget it Not really But if you guys just considered going to a career time That would literally solve our problem Our k-time is a group. So then how is it so then what's the difference then because like at my job We have a career time. I quit tomorrow. They have to pay me every hour. I've accrued Yeah, and we do Well, we don't pay for sick time. We don't pay for a crude sick time. We pay for a crude vacation time And we're like at our agency you can only carry over a certain amount So you can't carry over like six months of vacation time that could get paid out Um, I have a question Eric like especially with these 10 hour days that have started like memorial day This one here july 4th. Do you do eight hour days? No, they only pay eight hours They only pay eight hours for holiday. No, I know so like when you're doing your 40 hours Do they work Monday? Do they do eight hour days? How did they do they reduce two hours of no use their own personal time? I usually work. Oh really? That's and then they work three 10 hour days and then take two personal time If they choose if they want to otherwise they submit they only get paid for 38 hours or whatever Okay, interesting So I will say that one of the things that Um And in our department, you know, they work for 10 hour days And there are certain holidays that they elect to work to allow employees to bank Some of that holiday time for those 10 hour days those other 10 hour Those other holidays that they only get paid eight hours for and the one that they worked Essentially is pulled from a bank to make up for the two hours of additional time that they weren't That's complicated. Yeah, it's you know, again, it's And I'm fine with leaving this policy the way that it sits If it doesn't hurt to discuss it Yes, sir, I hate to bring this up, but this is the time to bring it up What about the 10 hour days when people make two hours per the 10 hour days on use their vacation time? Do you want to put anything in the policy about that because that pops up every year and it's been a problem Wait, what do you mean? So they only want to work eight hours. So they take two hours vacation Each day It has been in the past. I'm not sure now, but it's something that we always say Well, we'll dress that when we revisit the personnel policy. Here we are Yeah We're giving them 10-hour days. Let them take vacation. I don't see how I can't The next one on that is is to say vacation will be taken in minimum blocks of four hours We don't want to we don't want to be canning out vacation one hour or two hours at a time. I think that's crazy Well, not only that the other issue that I see is is you know, we're telling the The public that these guys are working 10-hour days and if really they're working eights and using their two Two hours here and there, you know Just go to an eight-hour day Tell the public that they're working five eight-hour days and take a day off right I'm confused. Yeah So last year and it happened like almost all summer last year people would work eight hours and they take two hours vacation every day So it would be 32 hours and then eight hours vacation But it was and they still took friday off So they were right so but What randy's trying to say if that's the case if you want fridays off just work your eight hours monday through You're monday through thursday and then take friday off at your eight hours vacation. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, if that's if that's the thing they only want to work You want to only have them take four hour blocks of vacation time That's what I thought was me Just to I I mean You know sick time is one thing if you've got to go to a one-hour doctor's appointment. Okay An hour of sick time or an hour and a half or two hours or whatever it is But vacation time That isn't the purpose of vacation however you want to Yeah, I have a hard time telling people that I mean I take an hour of vacation Sometimes I'll be like i'm cutting out early today But how does that affect your 10-hour work? If everybody I don't remember anybody doing it every week all all week long It was before you came on I consider they never did that. I mean it was I mean maybe once in a while, but it wasn't all week. It was a pretty significant issue that came last summer, right? A lot of discussion just last summer For the summer before probably the summer before yeah It was prior to you being in this position. I was going to say I did remember that But I will say that from the public From the public's viewpoint That's you know It's easier to say They're working five eight hour days They were approved for a vacation day on a friday then just have the time sheets come through and set when we're telling everybody That they're working 10 hour days, and then they're taking two hours every day Yeah, would it matter as long as there's coverage? Because I was saying you start taking away some of their benefits, and then you lose the people and then we don't have the help I mean I used to do the same as sir. I mean I worked an 80 hour work week And I would try to get my vacation in and then I'd get called back in so I'd end up Having a deduction of vacation because I went back into work or work from home or whatever So it just I'm my concerns. I'm seeing it in Burlington But the public work is they're just losing people hand over fist and you start taking away Some of the benefits that makes it Nice the workhead that we might lose people. Yeah, I don't think you're taking anything away. They still are in the benefit It's just It's you know And I For lack of a better way to say it, you know, you're playing a game to say We're we're working for 10 hour days, and that's the message that we're providing to the residents And all of a sudden nothing's happening or whatever and in this case it wasn't it's it's like It's not just two hours a day here and a day there It was like literally days on end. It's two hours two hours two hours two hours And if that's the case and you don't want to work 10 hour days during the summertime Stay on a five day work week Take your friday. Well, I don't like I said, I don't remember seeing that last summer. So I don't remember that being an issue But wasn't it mostly happening because we the select board was allowing it Nobody was saying nothing I remember now when you're talking about it. Yeah, they there was something that they decided they wanted to do And nobody called them on it A lot to our follow. Yes, Sarah If I may make a comment, I'm not sure theoretically or technically or as Shelly said just on a good bond to bond basis You can tell people they can't take their vacation time But you do have the road foreman in an earlier section Saying that somebody has to like the road foreman has to sign off on something. So what if you include a line in this saying that Something about vacation time must be done in coordination or with super or with approval or with understanding of the supervisor And that way Eric can manage The road a little bit. What is that man? Just throw this out there. What do you think? Well, so just kind of what happens now. I mean people don't just take a vacation day and leave without talking Yeah, okay In the paragraph where you start employees are strongly encouraged to take an annual vacation further Um at the discretion of the road foreman Um employees are also encouraged to take their vacation time in four hour blocks But that still gives Eric leeway to say it's not an issue this week What would you rather just Sometimes if even if I have to leave, I mean, I'd like to be able to use an hour of my time if I got to go for somewhere So I agree. You know in my mind in my mind. There's a difference, you know, personal leave versus vacation Personal leave is is something more like what you're talking about whereas vacation Vacation leave is you know in most places is is viewed as being approved prior to You know, not necessarily the day of the day of issue is kind of like a personal The personal time. That's why there's two different buckets back to the holiday If people want to get paid for 40 hours, they need to take two hours Something and if they don't have any personal time to use vacation And that's what's happening. They're filling their Their holiday with vacation time well more so than personal time filling holiday time with Vacation time given the existing situation I believe Fits the use The hey something came up at home. I need to go a couple hours early That's a that's personally We're dealing with personal And we give three days of personal time, right? I think that's what it does. Yeah So all I'm all I'm saying is You know, I think I think managing these issues is the responsibility of the road for me And you know, if somebody says, you know, my family and I are going camping this weekend And we need to leave a little early is it going to be a problem if I leave two hours early on on Thursday so we can get an early start on a once-in-a-while basis depending on what the workload was and everybody else was there I'd say it'd be fine doing it every week all summer long Well, yeah, I mean if it's if it hinders work then there's an issue Right employee evaluations. Just kidding Could I just have an opportunity to make mention on the subject? Yes Or You know just just looking at this as the four ten hour days being a benefit that we use as as a promotional Fact and you know when we look for for new hires for the road crew, you know I I would feel That the majority of the town would feel it's a bit of the abuse of a privilege of the four ten hour days to You know be working eight using two hours vacation time throughout the week I have no problem in using a couple hours because you've got a doctor's appointment. You've got to grab the kids off the bus It's a legitimate thing, but it sounds like since Eric's been there and there's been more supervision It's not an issue. So I would say as long as that doesn't become an issue again Probably not worth trying to find a solution if it's not happening, but it's as a as a perception basis Guys working just eight hour days to use two hours of vacation and still utilizing a four day work week is Sees from a public view of more of of an abuse of a privilege that that we use to uh, you know to kind of coax folks in there That's correct. Yeah, buddy. Great. Yeah, so So what about what about just including I think Bridget was starting to go there What about just including something? um requiring You know supervisor approval Right now there's nothing in here that requires approval um That i'm reading and at that point it's up to you to manage They don't just take it without saying they get it They may they may not currently they have in the past and right now there's nothing in the policy that prevents them from doing so At least that would nip it in the bud right and then yeah, I like that and I I think also Having a having another phrase in there which says vacation time should be approved in advance If possible or something like that so that you can plan on what's going on like You know, I know I used to I used to sit down and say, okay, july 4th's coming up everybody Everybody raised their hand who wants to take the week after july 4th and we'll figure out who can do it And who can't and if you did it last year you might not be able to do it this year Mm-hmm, and if it is you we we look to you and we say why aren't you managing this? I'm the fall guy Ultimately eric we're all the fall guys, but I do like that. I think that's a good idea Employees are strongly encouraged to take an annual vacation Invitation to impossible should be planned in advance and with the supervisors Approval Vacation needs to be taken with the supervisors approval at when possible Should be requested in advance. Yeah, the only other thing I said was the four-hour block But that doesn't sound very popular. So I go with what No, let's get the four-hour block. We're gonna do that. Yeah, because then it'll leave flexibility for eric to approve and plan as he sees fit So employees are strongly encouraged to take an annual vacation with supervisor approval Vacations when possible should be planned in advance. Does that sound okay?  Can I just get a clarification on the last sentence? Or the last two sentences about people given two weeks notice In the past the two weeks notice has been given and then people have been using that using up their Vacation time sick time During those last two weeks. Should there be anything in there? To that extent. Well, it's got to be with the approval of the supervisor. Okay And if they don't use it they get paid for it, right? I just wanted A clarification. So as long as that with the supervisor if he okays them in the last two weeks to take the time So, do you want us to add a sentence there saying no, I don't think we need to I mean the other thing You know, there's every you can imagine every situation in the in the world But if we know somebody's about to retire on a certain day You know, and we're out there actively hiring for that position and maybe we've already hired the person who knows That's one thing if somebody says you know I want to I'm going to quit as of uh June 1st and I want to take my two weeks vacation depending on what the mud season and whatever it is We could say yes or no You say no, then we're going to pay him for the two weeks at the end anyway Well, quite honestly If they're disgruntled and they're leaving they're giving two weeks and they don't want to be here And they want to take their two weeks probably the best two weeks. Well, there's no no no. I don't disagree All right, all they're going to do is sit around and putz around and grab for the last two weeks Anyway, I think we're good. So can we quickly do sick leave and then Call it a night Yes, I don't know what the rules are anymore, but with all the HIPAA record things Is there any way that sounds like I don't know what happens at capstone But can you even find out if somebody's taking a sick leave isn't that like a violation now of people's personal stuff? No, we we They have to declare on their time. Yeah, you don't have to dig into Like the issue, but Yeah, and I mean if they're if it's an extended leave or whatever obviously they need doctors No, it's to be able to document if it's a day. That's a human resource I didn't know if this is like I didn't know if they're gonna go home because they're sick It's self-explanatory I mean there are the six days a year still competitive Legally you're at required five I was going to say my experience is five or six days. Yeah What do we get Randy? Um 12 Is that I'm so jealous I never take it. No, I yeah, I mean so much at the time where I don't even accrue anymore, but yeah It's there are people that take every bit of it. Yeah, what definitely people who take every bit There's no there's nothing in there that says that if they take like They only got six days, but if they take, you know, three or four days They need a doctor's help. Yeah No, I think if you gave more than six, maybe sorry More than six But six is pretty standard. Yeah, I agree. I think it's okay Okay, the one thing I would like to bring up is what we talked about back when we talked about doing this review Is having the road crew come to a meeting I would really like to do that I would prefer not to do what we did the last time which is where I went down and sat down with a road crew And went through all these changes with them That was not a fun experience for me. We'd have to pay them over time Oh Yes, you would I'm suggesting we maybe we meet during the regular work day. We haven't spent a night. I don't know We could do it on one of their 10 hour days Well, so I mean the thing the thing to do there would would be Ask them back Early and leave a couple hours at the end of their day And then you get out of the if we're doing something after their normal working hours, then I agree with you Yes, that's an overtime situation But if we ask them back to the shop say Say it's come back to the shop at one if they're getting done at three or whatever and you got that two hour Maybe it's an hour. I don't know what time you're looking forward But I think if you do it right at the end of their work day and you're not holding them after their work hours I think it works fine Pay them over time to do that and paying them over time to go to class now There isn't any difference except that we would prefer to not pay people over time and save it for the snow days Right. Yeah, burger.  I don't think we have that anymore No, but like In case something were to happen like Yeah, what did we do during COVID? We had let them go into a negative situation. Oh, right Yeah They had to they had to earn it back out all I'm saying does just to finish up the other thing is I'm not saying I wouldn't go present this but I think it's good for us as a group To do it and sit down with them and that also gives them a chance to Say anything they have to say to us Well, I think we told them we would do that and I want to make sure we do it Yeah, I think this is definitely a better forum for that is as a group Presenting letting them provide feedback as a group What if we went to them? So it wasn't just peter and it wasn't like It would be you want to go over there and stand around that smelly garage amongst those trucks and talk to them Well, if you go as a group, it's got to be a warm Yes, yeah, correct. So it's just as easy to have them come here The other thing the other thing I would recommend is that we give them In advance a copy of the changes with us with the changes highlighted Not just show up and start saying here are the changes say Here it is The changes we made are highlighted in yellow. We want to meet with you and go over those changes So they have a chance to look it over and think about it We don't spring it on Yeah, I mean at the end of the day if we do it before we approve all these changes We just say we're looking for your feedback. This is what we've got. This is what we're recommending as the board And we're looking at for change. How do you feel what you're going back? Um, it's not like you're going to them saying hey, these are the changes. We just approved deal with it And I also want to throw in that this includes Cheryl who is a full-time employee that Is falls under this personnel policy. So It's not just the road through. No, well on sarah, too Well, sarah only has 51 that falls under that. It's the very skinner of 51 Of those policies Anyways, are you guys done with me? Yeah, yes. Are you done with us? Yeah, I gotta go Thanks, sarah. Thank you. Talk to the next guys. Okay, so we're through uh, we're through section 22 Yeah, and we were not looking at adding anything about requesting Any kind of return to work note or anything like that if it's extended Okay, we're gonna pick up on 23. Yeah come back So sarah to save you a little time and to save me so I don't have Six different additions of this personnel policy I'm gonna suggest we Do the edits when we finish it for one more time and you can keep these again and pass them out again. Yeah I'll do Is when you guys are done with this process And you're about to get to the road crew I'm going to send them this they can read it ahead of time You can you will get your copies and everybody will be on the same page. That's why she's asking about the word Yeah So we'll give you these back at the end of the day But you're gonna give us another copy I'm gonna give you a copy of the changes you made today Oh, all right got it She likes We're on this rules of procedure for middle six lick board. Yeah There's a lot here We've never done this before No, we've always said we use roberts rules, but we didn't really use roberts rules Well, this is the second time this has been passed Passed out. So maybe we are ready to just make quick changes. So Oh, is this the second time? Yes, she gave it to us a month ago. I believe I think she wants to get out Okay, well, why don't you highlight things because those are the parts of the second those are the sections that So here's what here's what I would here's what I would suggest I I want to hear it Sarah said read that again I'm sorry the yellow sections are the sections that vlct said You can make changes where you can make changes the rest is their template. So this is it's easier for you just like Those are where you guys can make decisions. I see what I'm suggesting is we quickly look at these yellow highlighted items Yeah, me too. And then we can everybody can look this I mean, I I read through this thing I thought it was I thought it was fine me too. But there's so for instance It's been our practice down through all the years to require a second for motions Yeah, so let's say I like the idea of a second. I would leave that one alone Um, there is no limit to the number of times. Remember the body may speak to a question A member may speak or make a motion Only after being recognized by the chair that probably should be only after being recognized by the chair Okay, so in other words When we're talking about something and I get tired of it and I say, okay, I'm ready to make a motion I need to say Peter Well, what we're trying to do. I know one of the things Sarah is trying to do is Force immediate more folk be more formal and less informal as we conduct the meeting So asking me bridge. It's very good at raising your hand People are very good about telling me if I'm looking this way and somebody's raising their hand over there I think that's fine unless you disagree. Yes, Bridget. I see your hand out. Thank you um Now I forgot what I was going to say Um, the um Just making the motion doesn't exclude further conversation and I think sometimes it narrows it so we can get through it quicker Yeah, right. It doesn't exclude further conversation, right? The motions to close or limit debate Will or will not be entertained. We have never had A motion to limit debate We have it we have at town meetings, but never to select where that I can remember in all the years and I'm really not interested in Limiting debate if we if we run out of time if we're over our agenda, we can always Stop and take it up the next meeting. I'm not interested in I don't know We say majority don't we Yeah, I think two thirds majority. We don't if somebody's missing a meeting We don't want to not be able to go ahead. Yeah, we do the majority two-thirds and majority are different, right? Yes We do majority. Yeah, we do majority. We don't have enough people okay, and then Changing the order of business postponing our tabling actions may be made by two-thirds majority. I would say Okay, so we don't do that right now like today you skipped over because jeff wasn't here So we're suggesting that you would say I make a motion that we switch to the third item on the agenda We have to approve that. Yeah So you quickly what do you guys want two-thirds majority or what I would say follow the majority Yep, I worry Okay, we can be efficient when we get I like this public participation one That that peter would say is there anyone from the public who would like because we get people who are guests And they never speak and maybe they wanted to say something but they're afraid Yeah, I think that's a number two So if you just after every agenda say is there anyone out here who would like to Make a comment about this right? I think that's a nice idea before any action is taken Yeah before any action is taken Beginning or the end of conclusion of discussion Yeah, I would I would say at the It can't be at the beginning because they haven't heard it yet, right So they may have questions coming in they may want to hear this But there may be more questions after the the discussion here It seems like it seems like at the end of the discussion But what is end of versus conclusion Oh Before you guys go yep And of course, I can always ask questions in between if they raise their hand Right, but if they have to raise their hand historically what I've tried to do when it's a little more challenging with the zoom, but you know, I try and Recognize people if they raise their hand whether they're select board members or not So but I think that's fine. Do we want to put a limit on the number of minutes? No I think the I think the chairman or vice chairman or whoever's running the meeting can limit somebody as they talk for too long Wait, but hold on at the beginning at the end at the conclusion of each agenda item But before any action is taken by the public might there may be About as part of the discussion I say as part of the discussion as opposed to saying it has to be before during or after Just as part before we've typically done as part of the discussion. I recognize part of the discussion You'll recognize them. Yeah It's part of the discussion of each agenda item. Yeah. Um, and should we say upon recognition of the chair? Yeah, yeah, the chair but before with it. Okay, great Wait a minute though, but we still want there may be a chair to recognize the public If they're too afraid to say something to the chair, right? That's the first section. You're the second section now Which is really just controlling getting it from getting out of control Oh, yep. Yep. Yep So what does it say the whole thing as part of the this the As part of the discussion of each agenda item upon recognition of the chair but before any action is taken by the public body Let me just work on that. Okay but I get I mean our I mean My intent or what I think is the right thing to do and it's the way I've tried to conduct meetings Forever is is to recognize members of the public who are here if they raise their hand Right now. Maybe what we need to say at the beginning of the meeting For for those on the zoom are here. Please if you want to be recognized Raise your hand. I don't typically do that. I probably should Yeah, or even just say after we've discussed something like the roads for example, that's really Main thing that people care about right so after we've had a conversation about the roads You can say to the public. Is there anyone who has any additional comments or questions? Because this is I usually say that but I think people think that I'm referring to the select board not to everyone But just I would say to the members I think the more we're going to encourage people to be involved the better me too So what if we say something like this on recognition of the chair public comment may take place as part of the discussion of each agenda item And just put it done And before and before any action is taken. Yeah And that way you don't have that dependent clause and just make it a creative sentence. Yeah And what I would suggest is assuming we implement this when we implement it is That you put a little sentence to remind me on the top of the agenda remember to remind Okay, and then just kill off this last sentence by unanimous to the body name increase the time for open public comment Because you're not setting any time. So just kill that right kill it Yeah, you'll basically take half the half of the first sentence and all the second sentence out Good work Are we going to be able to order the constable to remove disorderly people? That's we're going to point you as constable I remember I remember when we used to have a constable in uniform at all our 10 meetings So do we want to put this to bed and Put a motion to approve those changes. I'm ready to put it to bed What that was the guy that you took Which we were way ahead of time we couldn't he couldn't have a gun remember the constable we had that couldn't have a gun That was after today. He would be right. That's after that's after George Boardman shot that guy in Plainfield. Oh gosh Nice Anyway, we don't need to we're not going to have a 10 gun or armory Okay, so was there a motion to approve the amended rules of procedure Does this need to include the move from Robert's rules of orders to this new rules of procedure And that we will I would say we're adopting these rules of procedure effectively immediately or something like that Okay, I'll make I'll make the motion to adopt these rules of procedure with the Changes that we just discussed So there were a second Thank you victor all those in favor of the motion. Please say aye. Aye I you're saying aye. Okay. It's unanimous. Thank you. Thank you very much I did see by the way in here I mean, I'm going to I'm going to try and pay attention to this but you guys hold me up short that if we If we don't make a unanimous decision We're supposed to record the individual votes Oh, really? We do now don't we do that? She does that sarah says that I do when I first when I first got this job, there was a certain select board member that would allow me to do that Oh All right Treasure support darinda Hope I'm sorry. I thought I'd look them over But you go first I'm so sorry. Please do No, you got you got I just didn't know if it was still it to do go ahead. It is still it to do I gave you in a status report Bottom line we're like at 82 percent of the budget or 83 percent of the budget So I think we're going to come in all right without any big surprises So And just looking at this quickly the biggest The biggest part of the savings Is payroll There are a couple of other areas yeah that are that are under spent but uh, that was my conclusion Is we're going to be safely within our budget? We may under spend it for a little bit Yeah, I mean we never know. We never know until everything comes in. Yeah in june or early july, but It looks pretty good to me Thank you, darnda. Anybody have any questions about The budget report Yes Are we still on a treasure? Yes That that email that you sent out tonight This afternoon, I assume it was Cheryl said it. Yes Yeah Okay um So how do we know who's so She was a little bit. Um, I don't know if you guys got it or not. I didn't say it just went to our Vendor people so you guys they don't create any bills. So um, it went to the highway department is basically our Cemetery commission and those types of people it went to Um, the leak is coming down on having all of this paperwork um I feel it was stronger than what it really needed to be said um And the league is just kind of being strong arming here as far as what they want um, some of it's not pertinent like they asked for If somebody's insurance policy covers from june to From july to june and yet they do it on a calendar year. They were asking for two years worth of proof of insurance Uh in coverage, but if we only have an invoice that pertains to one part of a year We don't need to produce that other part of insurance. So basically we just got audited And we came back and wanted to have documentation for these one time bills that we pay for You know, otherwise, they're going to put it on Our workers go ahead and to our workers comp But they were being overly aggressive But Cheryl just took it verbatim from what they said to her and sent out an email For the most part, I think We have been covered from year to year There was two invoices that they picked up one was for repair on I think the The truck that eric had serviced at one of the places like up in Jericho or someplace some trucking place Enosburg or someplace like that and the other one was to king'sberry And those were the only two and then they pulled out all the fire department. They questioned why we didn't aim with Through payroll as opposed to 10 99s well up until january 1st. They were not employees So they did not and so we just had to clarify all that but She took the lead and sent out a notice to like I said the cemetery Commission and The highway department just said anybody needs to provide this information Before they start work. Okay, so Like with the person that moves their equipment Is he all set? Well, he has been in the past. I don't know if his information is current or not That's what she should be looking at to find out Being Cheryl right should see if he's got he always did give us a certificate of insurance every year So we would just need to make sure So we shouldn't stop him when he comes over? No, if you've got something scheduled go forward to it because we don't have to submit this paperwork again We've got time to go back somebody like that. We've been doing business with for years. Okay Um, it's these one-off places that are more or less creating the problem We don't know we're doing business with them until the check till the bill shows up like when we do Sand hauling or gravel hauling we those people are they are they Well, it depends who it is. It's like we had a motor fixed from somebody in Worcester We have no idea who that person is or something that was a while back I'm just using that as an example Or whatever and it might not even have been the highway department But we did something and these individual names come through And those are the people that we should have the documentation before We just go out and have them do something unless it's an emergency If we have a truck broken down and we have to get it repaired By all means get it repaired and we'll deal with the consequences afterwards. Yeah The other thing I would say is Having been on the other side of this for a million years Is we for people we insured We had a list of certificates. So we would just automatically send out certificates at renewal time And we would ask people part of our renewal process was to say here's your certificate list Is there anybody we should add or delete and we would just routinely send them out and that's So would you say it's the oddball ones? It's the oddball ones that are falling through the cracks and We have to you know, we've got a bill we have to pay them. But yet we don't have any of their You know business information their tax ID or their social security number or anything like that But yes, they want their check Yeah, we can't we can't release checks till we have those documents in the end. Right, right No, you don't want to be chasing them afterwards. There's nothing There's nothing worse than going back at the end of the year when you get audited in you Yeah But for the most part, it's just making sure that these people, you know, send in their certificates every year and We've done business with most of them for a long time Okay Anything else darinda? No, that's all I had Okay, we have a letter from the planning commission requesting to appoint pc member mitch osseki as an alternate on the center Vermont regional planning commission Is there a motion? I move that we appoint mitch or lucky to the alternate Say what he's the alter. He would be the alternate For a second. I'll second it. Okay. Thank you. Liz All those in favor of appointing mitch to be our alternate to the central mont regional planning commission I Anybody opposed? Okay, mitch has got it Um Welch park update. I actually do have a welch park update I've been talking to john riley I have a conference call set up with matt oats And carl balan for thersey To go over the nuts and bolts of the different things we need to we need to parse out To do away with this john has been working on the On the document so there is some progress, but we're not there. We're not there yet and uh I was distressed to learn and darinda pointed out to me that she told me this and I thought she was wrong when she told me but We ran across a little hitch in our Come along to the extent that uh, the fire department is attached to the fire pump And therefore we're going to have to make Some kind of deal about how that's going to work. I talked to matt. Oh, it's about it I said what I'd like to do is say we'll take over the road. You continue to support the fire pump the alternative would be which which riley suggested is We pro rake the cost of maintaining the fire department according to the square footage, which means we would pay less than a tenth of whatever the Whatever the cost is but uh It would seem to me that Us Maintaining that road and guess what it needs some paving now um Would be more than adequate, but we'll see we're working on it. It's in the works He skipped over the locals catering permit. We need that Sorry, what considering approving a request to cater permit for the local? Oh, yeah, I did I did miss it. I'm sorry You have a tiny little agenda This I have a bigger one I gave him a new one my eyes get my eyes get tired at the end of the day Considering uh, where are we here? I'll move that man. Yes That we request that we approve the request to cater permit for the local Do you have it it's tara? No, everything is now online. It's just a message from the state as soon as you're done I'll press the button and they'll get the permit. Gotcha. Is there a second? Yeah, okay. Thank you all in favor of All in favor of uh Approving the permit for the local please say aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? I'm sorry. I was looking at my copy of the agenda not the one you gave me that had that in it So shame on me for that Um, the orders are going around Correspondents Listen, I'm just uh The correspondents rest send an email today with an attached template for a survey for the squatter district Uh, you wanted to appear at tonight's meeting. It's good. He didn't I put I put him on the agenda for the six But asked if he could send ahead of time What he would like to discuss so you've got your email you've got the email You know, I've printed that out too, but there's the survey if you guys could take a look over it Look it over before The june 6th meeting because he would like to discuss that Can I just make a comment on it because I'm not going to be here for the june 6th meeting I'm hoping that all of these questions that are about your septic and about your water system Will only be given to those who say I live in middle sex village Because this survey is for Other people it's for me and I certainly wouldn't somehow Want people to think that middle sex is going to supply a water system for me So I'm hoping these are good questions, but they should only be um Directed when the person checks out the box that says I either work in the village or I'm a resident of the village But this survey is only going to those folks. No will be impacted by this. I thought no What what what Russ would like the board to consider is Defining the area to where you want to send this survey because we're not so going to send it will cost massive town-wide confusion He wants the board wants two things from the board. Where where is the district that you think? What do you what how do you envision this? Where does this go? Does it go down to Welch Park? Does it go down to the industrial section? Does it go here? Does it go there? I don't even know if it can go to the industrial section So that's the first thing and then once you define that area then that survey will go to that area Okay, because just one of the questions is you answer. I'm a resident of the town Yeah, he said or I own property in the town. Yeah, you know, this is something he got them like more general questions. Just yeah So it's okay. That makes more sense. Yes Peter I believe that it should be sent to everyone in the town and here's why as russia's development Increases and grows it significantly impacts more people So if he plans to develop that property as far as say he possibly can Then you're not talking just the downtown or village district anymore. You're talking significantly Greater larger area population The larger his community that he planned that area that he plans on developing The larger draw he will have to do and the farther you'll have to drill for that well Which means he is going to impact the water in the area from possibly farther distances So this survey should go out to anybody that can be impacted if his property is expanded to the Largest scale that it possibly can go to. Well, it's going to go to him It's well. He's saying like that, you know, well, so right. So right now Initial well according to according to the engineers when he brought the engineers here from water creek, yeah, right? It's 2000 foot radius That's their initial well that they have right now, right? If they grow that property and it expands with more housing and stuff like that that well Draw will become larger as well as possibly drilling it deeper Which means that radius is going to continue to grow Right, so it should be whatever the largest possible well and draw that he could use That should be sent to that radius because those are ultimately the people at the end of his expansion on his Residential project is going to impact. So it shouldn't just be limited now to the people. It's going to affect right now because In 10 years, it's going to affect 30 times. That's a good point. So we need to we need to think of his neighbors when we're sending them And I don't know what that distance is. I don't disagree. So I think it would cause Absolute massive confusion if we said I don't know where that radius is But we should find that out before we send this out to know exactly who we need to send it to To go but well Now that's the initial so I'm saying we need we need to have him provide us with the numbers Okay, if you develop your entire property to its max amount of housing and draw What's the radius of potential impact for wells? And then we send it to that radius Because if ultimately he's going to develop that as far as humanly possible once he gets the ball rolling, right? He's not going to stop at his first initial complex. It's just going to keep going, right? So we need to give everyone that can impact even if it's 20 years from now The opportunity to speak on it because if we allow it to go through now at the small scale It's going to keep snowballing now. It's affecting people that don't have a voice Initially that will get affected later. Yep Yep So the question the question I have is I don't understand all the voice for the questions So this is all this is only This is only for your course. There's not going to be any action. The idea is you get it now You can have a discussion about it now, but uh, June 6th You should be prepared to ask the questions because this is kind of like your homework. Okay Well, I'm I'm fine with the water questions and I agree with uh, I agree with the radius issue I don't agree with asking all these wastewater Questions, I think the wastewater comes into play if if this is if this is going to be a Potentially has wastewater impact that folks are getting off from individualized wells to a more centralized systems theoretically they can develop other opportunities for wastewater eventually as well but I think for me The circulation of this survey I think is is one piece of the question. I think I agree with steve that You know the surrounding neighbors should be notified. I don't know if it's necessarily this survey um Because this in my mind the survey and what I've read thus far Is looking for feedback that's going to impact uh Those that have the ability to actually attach on to this system I believe that there should be some other sort of One pager or something that has has informative Information on it to the overall development plans to address your concerns I just don't know as if the survey Needs to go out to all of those people. I think something does Yep, I would agree with that. Yes. Well, there are concerns I have is if they're if they do plan on at some point Doing anything wastewater that the town take that Incredibly seriously as far as how hands-on it is Because currently in the state of ramaa I don't know if anybody else keeps up on the wastewater numbers around the state But uh, every time it rains in this state North of a million gallons of sewer gets dumped into our waterways And literally I think the last survey number was uh, 2021 and we dumped five over 5.7 million gallons People matted and Black water into our waterways And so where is that where are they planning on putting this wastewater treatment plant? Because I know they'll have to have a water source from probably the river And so, you know, what are what are the steps that town? I understand that but Well, we're trying to do is determine People are interested in having a public water system in the village And to ask all these questions about well, we were just just to give you a little history when when we looked at this the last time And that was what 10 years ago sarah Okay, maybe way before that We determined that what we had in the village was a water problem not a wastewater problem The soils are in the in the village are good I don't foresee And you know, maybe something has changed and he could tell us that But I don't foresee us putting in a municipal wastewater ceiling And I don't really see they're going to have to have some kind of some kind of wastewater system up on up on their property but I just think it's going to I mean it would freak me out if you ask me all these questions about my wastewater system, I'd say You know, I thought we're talking about a water system. So I don't know those are good questions to ask him Why is that if he says here's the reason why you think you should do that? We agree with that we can do it but on the face of it to me I don't think we want to be asking about wastewater Yeah, well, it's just Like with steve's questions. So these questions are being proposed by russ, right? Or or did we create this document? We asked them to Give us a draft survey and then We would then ask him What the proposed area is that could be significant could be In some way impacted Based on current Current and future planning And then But who checks on his numbers, whatever he comes back with and is that going to be the town and is that going to cost money? I don't understand your question. So the engineer is going to tell us the engine Russ is going to say, you know, here's what we perceive the maximum development of that property to be right right wrong or indifferent That's his he's going to tell us that the engineer is going to say based on that Based on that there's the potential that we would need additional water supply And I don't know what that maximum distance is it might stay 2000 it might get bigger But if it is going to if there is some chance that that Prohibition zone or whatever you call it is going to poach on the neighbor's property. I think we should tell I just wanted to make sure that it there was some policing of whatever number comes back. That's all That it wasn't just his figure that we have some power to the engineer is going to it's going to tell us But it's going to be based on russ's information. It can't be any other way okay You know, he's going to say we think we're going to have so many housing units and we're going to have a daycare center And we're going to have this and we're going to have that and that's going to determine their needs for water Okay, I do I did understand and we've got to document it that There appears to be plenty of water there both for them and for us So maybe the maybe the existing well is adequate, but that's a good question It's it's adequate for what they're what they're planning to develop currently But they won't be able to tell us future impact until they either a start drawing for future B drill deeper and drop for future and then they'll have to give us the option of monitoring surrounding wells Which they said that they are they are responsible for paying for that monitoring if a neighboring property wants it But as far as like verifying what their engineer says that would be on either a The town to decide they want to hire a third-party engineer to verify what honor creek engineering is said Or be an individual from the town privately funding a third-party engineer to verify what otter creek is saying and I think that it would be Incredibly neglectful of the town to just trust what they're saying especially after otter creek engineering sat here said we didn't qualify for Any grant that could assist the town in that and I could literally turn around and point to four That we qualified for out of the gate. So if they're going to Lie about something like that It would be neglectful of the town to believe that they wouldn't It should be easy to easy to check on what those what those rules are. I mean, they're got to be state regulations It can't be rocket science, but I all I'm saying is He's going to tell us what the what the bill that is we can't And how can how could he tell us absolutely that no matter what that's what it's going to be? And You know, I mean you've got to be a little bit of a leap of faith here on some level Trust will verify to hear trust will verify. No, I know But I mean we're it's not any number that he's going to give us that we can say You told us way back when when you were talking about this project that you would never exceed so many housing units As long as it means Yeah So in my conversation with breast the idea of this survey is just to find for his purposes for applying for grants Who would who in this area is interested who in this area who would be receive water if you Created a municipal water system if there's interest that's all this is this isn't doing anything else by this You know, you're really really really early in the process And I think this life We're just needs to identify the area that would probably be served by this municipal water system If you did did it and should be sent out a survey what questions should be asked That's my just relaying like put conversation with Russ again. I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying that's what that's the point Yeah I was just going to say I think that for the ease of Distributing this survey you could distribute it to everyone in town because I think the first page Actually will tell a lot if 90 percent of the people say I don't believe that middle sex wants it that tells us something And then the second page when it asks a question. What is your relationship to middle sex? I am a resident of the village that sends you to the rest of the questions I am a resident of the town that says thank you for doing this survey Or I work in middle sex or maybe I own a business in middle sex as opposed to You know, I work in middle sex And and that way And if they we get all the answers from anyone in town about their thoughts on On a municipal water system But we get more details from people who actually would benefit from the municipal water system. So here's the problem Or the questioner Thank you If I were to get the survey yes, and I live off the 76th east hill road I would say You mean to say the town is going to provide a water system for the village? Yes What and we would say yes, that's and that means the town is going to pay for that Yes, and then you're going to answer all these negative things. No, no, no, no I think what we need to be able to say when we send out the survey It's anticipated that our water district will be created and that the users of the system Will pay for the water system Yeah, I know but I mean just I think it costs millions of dollars and they're not going to Dave Smith isn't going to spend millions of dollars on a water system I think that we would have to the town would have to contribute something to it I don't think it's free I respectfully disagree with my but yeah as a resident as a resident of the town of middle sex I would be incredibly pissed off Because I was supplying water for just the people off of groups To I think it's I think it would cost something It would put it but it but there's zero benefit to me as a resident So We're good. We're we're putting the car away before the horse here ever. My question went to Does it have to be mailed? Is this something that can be available to online and we alert What is the plan for the document? We have a discussion. Okay. Yeah, and then to what Steve says There is some benefit because we'll have an increase of people in downtown area. I mean, it's just not it It's just not a financial benefit Okay, so So then okay, that's subject to your opinion though whether or not you actually want development within the village It's not it's not just about the development though. It's okay So now you're bringing a water district into the village. So you're bringing in more tourism possibility to the town, right? There's more or less we're speaking about I don't see a housing development going in on route two anytime soon Not even in the next decade. All right, so What is being benefited other than to the business owners on route two where that water district would be it certainly isn't anybody up on east hill or Bear or anywhere else In town, right? There's no benefit to anybody else. It's just to the businesses right here on route two So there's no argument and the household Yes Well, I think the whole point of this exercise is that russ has Claims he has a lot of water And this is an opportunity to explore this possibility that otherwise would not be able to be explored if He did not purchase that property And so I think that's where this is coming from. This does not mean that we're having an units water system It's just we're a long one very very early stages of Even getting the feel from the town like hey This is something you'd want. So what for instance happened the last time And there may be many people who don't want it right who have wells. They don't want to pay an extra $600 and that's what they said and that's what they said the last $800 a year whatever it is so anyway I wouldn't get too excited about this yet is what I'm saying, but I I certainly for me I agree with you. I don't anticipate The town putting in a water system for the village and any where you met him Yes The only thing that looked in certain to me is he did say it would cost the town quite a better money also even Yeah, he wants to be working all The expenses it would cost the town something too. I thought I might remember didn't he say yeah. Yeah, okay That's I'm gonna tell us he's not gonna tell us how we're gonna pay for this Okay, he's gonna give us he's potentially giving us an opportunity. It's up to us to figure out if A water district is the way to do it if so, how many people are willing to hook up because We can't force them to hook up. So if we create this thing and they don't hook up It's not gonna work So The other thing that that we can't forget about this is Right now we have You know Very limited fire protection in the village. I mean this would provide hydrogen water in the village, which is a Definitely a benefit to the Anybody who owns property in the village when all the teslas start on fire Yeah, when all the lithium batteries go to hell and town burns down I have I just want to comment. Um the other matters before the board Okay Yeah, is that time Uh, yes, I'd say it's time. So just um as an fyi if anyone's interested Um, erindy, I did send you the link just in case you want to come I'm meeting on thursday with uh sam lash from central mart regional planning commission Um, and my husband lauri who's on the um energy committee who's you know, hopefully going to help us with navigating the um the murk grant and All the stuff that's coming down the pike And as a reminder murk is the municipal energy resilience program with the $500,000 that we can apply for So i'm going to basically just talk to her about where we are right now in terms of um You know our thoughts on the town hall renovation and how we could leverage this money to pay for a lot of repairs if we do get um town approval for Uh renovating the town hall. So if anyone's interested in joining You are more than welcome to um if there's more than three of us it will have to be warned So I'm going to try to attend. So if you and I are both there. Yep. Um, if anybody else is we should warn it But my intention is to be there. Okay, great. We're what time are we we're it's uh What time was it two o'clock? Maybe it was Thursday Thursday two o'clock. I believe on my zoom the 18th Uh, yeah the 18th Yep, two o'clock as a team's meeting And it's not it's not something that I want the public to join in on is this really like a preliminary conversations but if there's someone on the you know, that's interested in Joining this meeting they can The very very rough billing plans. How many do you want me to put them on on the lab? Yes or no I sent those to you last week or before last month put them out there Okay, fine. I just need your approval. I said yeah, yeah, it makes sense to I had planned on and I just haven't gone around to it having lauri put it up on the what's next middle sex under He has a tab for the town hall So it can go on the main website too But we also we could include the minutes of the meeting that we had So the people can look at it. So would you prefer that I did that or you Well, we can do both. Okay, that's great more is better. Yep Anything else anyone We need to sign the orders I've got those they have a new one. I'm here for zero one. I'll just sign it Are you guys adjourned? Yes, we're adjourned