Thanks for staying with us. Now according to the World Health Organization, cannabis is by far the most widely cultivated trafficked and abused illicit drug. Half of all drug seizures worldwide are cannabis seizures. Now the geographical spread of these or those seizures is also global, covering practically every country of the world. Now according to about 147 million people, that's about 2.5 percent of the world's population consume Cannabis as the annual prevalence compared with 0.2 percent consumption of cocaine and 0.2 consumption of Op-Aids. Now in present decades Cannabis abuse has grown more rapidly than cocaine and Op-Aid abuse. The most rapid growth in Cannabis abuse since the 1960s has been in developed countries in North America, Western Europe and Australia, Cannabis has become more closely linked to youth culture and the age of initiation is usually lower than lower than for other drugs and analysis of Cannabis market shows that Low prices coincide with high levels of abuse and vice versa. So today we're asking What do you think this impact of Cannabis is on life? Now, please let's hear what you have to say remember you can join the conversation send us an SMS or WhatsApp to the right one is your 3-8-4-6-6-3 you can also Twitter us at we show after one with the hashtag we show I was gonna ask Well, I was gonna ask one question. That's why I'm smiling because who has done Cannabis here honestly speaking Because I've never done it in my life But I have classmates They could swear by that thing that if they want to write exam like I had to class with a graduate with a 2-1 I thought it was in university So before they go write any exam that guy piles has to be high So when it comes to you just download and he came out the very very brilliant score Like he could swear by it that without that thing he can't retain anything is reading and all of that And I see that a lot of people say this I have a friend of mine He put together young chap. He tells me that why do I need inspiration to go and What's he called for if I want to write is very strong proposal to a big client I first of all go and take you called it in I will not call it Oh, I think that is that one is mixed. They called loud or something He has to first of all take a bit of it before he can you know Be able to write the proposal. I see now. Wow. Is it that he's only one that does not know how life is I think just like every other thing Something some people some it's a stimulant in its own way. It's the same way people take You take some people are addicts to panadol pain killer pet drinks, you know pain killers different things So it's just another but like you just said You know the survey shows that it is the most You know sot after hallelujah, let me come to Yes, okay Any question I just said say your mind The topic of conversation or the drug of conversation No, and no and no, I know there are a lot of positives. I know that yes If we want to start to break it down, you know, there are lots of I mean you can see video all over the place Now you hear THC all over the place.  That's where my no no and no comes from. Thank you It's a US based physician with a strong interest in wellness He specializes in nephrologist hypertension Dialysis and kidney transplant medicine with an emphasis on preventive care at his practice West Orange nephrology Orlando, Florida Well, he's joined us live in studio as a friend of the house and he's an expert in this subject matter Oh My goodness, okay, so I've been each is to have this conversation So you can imagine how when I saw the headline that I carry a career Dole, I mean national assembly is trying to back him to legalize Cannabis I say finally I get to bring up the money for us to discuss Cannabis because it's a good matter. It's a serious matter. It's not something I mean again You could just it could make real sense Right that a lot of people are using it anyway So why don't we legalize it so that maybe the fears that people are talking about, you know having Laced Drugs and all of that out outside there. Maybe all those will be reduced and people now start taking, you know a more Controlled like, you know, healthy, whatever variation of whatever it is But hey, I saw a report that in the US because they have legalized cannabis Like literally all the other stuff they come into But they don't know if that is impacting on their jobs, so you help me out, right? What exactly is the impact of cannabis on life?  My friend that is always on point and this he's coming out with straight A's whenever he goes to smoke something Well, first of all, thanks for having me on The first thing I'm going to say is let's not use the word abuse with cannabis. Let's use the word use So with cocaine and everything else it's abuse With cannabis it's use and I said because cannabis is how the stigma attached to it I have a stigma attached to it because of I want to say cannabis I'm referring to THC specifically because cannabis could be it's a it's a dioshus plant It can be male female the male produces hemp which they use for clothing or Or hair exactly. It's more. It's more is a softer material the softer fiber or the male one Yes, the male plant. So is it female or is it dead? The female one is not dead It produces THC What's THC? You're perpetrating the stigma. It's not deadly What produces THC and They they work together to produce it now the male produces some THC and THC is tetra high Ducanabinol and it's the psychoactive Part of cannabis everyone refers to and the product has gotten most pressed because many people some people that get it Become very altered when they get high they can become become very altered. But see the interesting about cannabis is Most people I'll get to say all people but I can't say all garbage in all people but most people that use it you really have a Condition that's being treated by it Sometimes unbeknownst to them because it's a social drug, right? So people just Peer pressure they pressurize their peers to to to use it especially the the Well, actually not just smoking but the gummies the edible ones, which is more acceptable So in society brownies, yes inside all those things. They put it inside all kinds of things. So I'll first of all stop I So one thing I didn't say and I mean you alluded to already by talking about the fact that The governor of understate is is is advocating it and because it's illegal in Nigeria So I mean that's the first thing that I should I should say that it is illegal So when you're asking me if I use I'll say totally no I don't use at all because it's illegal but in the states I do I Do because it's legal and it's in Florida specifically. It's medically Supervised so it's under medical supervision. So I have a medical marijuana clinic where I see patients that want to start using it and I Evaluate to see if they can did for it and By and large most people are because there's a condition that they have that it treats You're limited to earlier medicinal medicinal properties of it what it treats you mentioned glaucoma Pain seizures that's a big one especially in in kids They use THC and CBD For CBD is another derivative. It's not as psychoactive as THC is but they use that combination for seizure treatment in kids and Why I subscribe to it. It's much safer than the alternatives for pain Heroin you mentioned earlier Chamador Fentanyl that we want to talks about as cause all kinds of religious go go under It's actually they actually find that by by making it's medicineally available They're decreasing the amount of people that are actually addicted and overdose on Opium on heroin on narcotics. So by decreasing that It's getting a better spotlight in America now, of course, some are gonna abuse it Some are gonna mix it with other substances to make it even more potent to to give that psychoactive effect People want to get high, but many people don't get high and we will get relaxed. You mentioned that it's a stimulant it actually Can tranquilize as well depending on what type you use there's sativa. There's in the car Because now from what the house of representative they what they are trying to back a career delu on is Is the is growing of cannabis sativa for export? How big is cannabis sativa? Like what exactly is the economic power that it has? Because I know that many times I've taken reports on customs and what's it called?  So maybe the governor Justin Ida This thing is business. Let's cook. We just convert it to business. So how lucrative and how how was it called? What's the what's the demand on cannabis sativa, especially the one that they're trying to Back him up for exports. Okay. So the particular I'm drawing I saw just now on sativa versus in the car in the car. They were more or less sleepy in the guys in the couch It knocks you out sativa makes you more related and happy and Sativa and in the cup especially sativa because it's That's safer. It's milder. So to speak especially for the first time users some economies are referred to Cannabis as green oil Hmm That's how lucrative it is. It's a very lucrative business and you know in some economies Some countries especially in the West Indies, it's very very commonplace You go to people's houses. They do you want to drink or do you want some marijuana? It's it's just a very common it's a social Drug and they don't worry about the effects of getting high Because if you get high with it, you will come down There's no danger like in when you use fentanyl or heroin if you take too much of it get too high You stop breathing as overdose. So they OD on it by stopping breathing that can happen with cannabis Which is why it's much safer for pain it's one of the few substances on the world that are purported to actually Encourage the growth of brain cells. So at some point people with strokes Will benefit from that and I've become mainstay of therapy. We're not there yet Some countries like Israel. They're really pushing that idea and they have all kinds of ways to take it Not just smoking it is you can vape it. You can use the gummies You can actually use pills. I use patches as well. You use patches. You can use creams Some countries they use it as douches because it helps for dysmenorrhea the period pain So there are different ways to get it in but if you get high with it Time will bring it down what I was to my patients is if you fit if you're thinking for the first time don't drive because it increases your Your sense of your depth of perception So you're looking at my car. It may look a little closer Or a little bigger so it increases depth of perception, but it's something that you can manage with time You mentioned your friend was using for exams many people use it before they work out They use before they they it helps your creative juices flow So before they write they the writers they will use it before they sing Before they compose new songs and use it so it's had its effect since beginning of I mean, it's been out for a very long time Unfortunately, it's place in our economy has to become solid because it's very lucrative and it's placed in health Has become solid too because it's very beneficial for many many people. Hmm. Okay, let's take a break But where the doctor is talking now, you will say By no, we see and they're eating the heart to ask a question, but let's go on a very short break. We'll be right back Now if you just you knew we're discussing the impact of cannabis on life and we have with us Dr. Banji Awushika just really explaining it into the details now, please. Let's hear what you have say remember You can join the conversation send us an sms or what's up? 1-8-4-3-4-6-6-3 you can also tweet at us at Weiss show after one with a hashtag Weiss show So what do you like come to you that I'll come back to you and just Well Very compelling For the use as you would say and not the abuse of cannabis But yeah, you and I I totally Everything that you said is totally positive around the economic opportunities The multiple use cases But please I just want to center the conversation back on Nigeria And the fact that We know that our roads are not streets. So a drug that is illegal today We're already cultivating it. I think oh you said something about ondo, right? Yes, and I know that there are a couple of other states Where I mean we're currently a huge producer of this right, so I'm trying to understand what your thoughts are around the legalization of this and Is it's going to We already have a problem today with local use when we talk about crime when we talk about all these things We have all these issues, right? But I don't want to go down to those negatives We also have cultural Issues around Igbo. It's not a but I don't I don't see like how do you start to change those mindsets, right? Around the fact that people are smoking Igbo and they're smoking it openly, right? Let's put it that way. We call it cannabis. It sounds very posh Um, so people are smoking Igbo and they're smoking it openly We already have a problem. So how do we If we say we're going to legalize this what are your thoughts around? stopping that abuse that we currently have now So that the right kind of people can benefit from it That's a great question. So so the abuse of Igbo using the word you use Is something that happens because of the the stigma attached to it and the fact that it's illegal So anything that's legal when there was a prohibition of alcohol back in the 20s It was illegal. So anything that's illegal will be sold for a profit Will be sold under dangerous conditions People would would take other drugs to help them develop the more confidence to to go and you know Hatch it out with their contemporary whoever they're sending it to there's just that world that happens That environment has created when it's illegal when it's legalized things will change but before they legalize it though There has to be education That's part of what I My strongest push is because I've seen the benefits on my patients A lot of my patients and I have the sickest population of patients patients on dialysis And the benefit I've seen in those that I've prescribed it to or have recommended because they don't prescribe We recommend it. I've recommended it to Has been tremendous and that's why I continue pushing it but here in Nigeria It's illegality. We thought it was illegal Makes it a more dangerous thing dangerous Situation to be a part of the stigma attached to it Doing it in open. I mean, there are cleaner ways to do it now You know in the states or I was in the uk recently or in canada They have most people just would vape it. They don't even take it like the way they take it here You know the Igbo where they they like they light it up and all that they have to roll it up There's a place for them to do that, but the cleanup versions of it are the vaping it the gummies So for me I'm taking I would like to know I know you've said You've stated a lot of you know benefits Of cannabis and I but I know that there's always There's always a downside to it. So I would like to ask long term. What are the long term? I know that there is um, I think from research I saw CHS So I wanted to ask what are the other, you know Long-term effects of the constant use right good question. So My water should be ideally used in Periods not chronically because if you use it chronically every day the likelihood of developing The syndrome you're talking about hypo-remesis syndrome Is the cannabis induced hypo-remesis syndrome hypo-remesis is vomiting continuously It will make you nauseous make you want to throw up every morning And that happens after you've done you've had chronic use usually more than a year But it can be as long as 10 years of use before you develop those symptoms and to fix it you just stop It may take a while to stop easy to stop Well, because I feel like if if for instance, I start to depend on marijuana for maybe Inspiration as a creative it's going to be difficult for me to say, you know, you know what I'm just going to stop I believe that I become very dependent on it, right? Is it not addictive? Wouldn't I get to that point where it seems like I can't think I can't do anything like my friends? I mean literally if they didn't have that It would they don't the right example They won't come to they won't write the exam Because he literally will tell you say because he's read his books But he believes that he cannot remember until he smokes it and his eyes are always red and his lips dark So for me, I just did not like the the look that it gave what do we are talking gummies You know But he he grew that Dependence on it that you know, it was difficult for him to and I think his mind has already told him that I can't I can't pass my exams if I don't if I don't take this totally mental It's a mind thing because Vitamin D The vitamins if you're deficient in them and you take them You get better sometimes you feel bad sometimes you don't even know the difference But if you stop taking them you necessarily develop symptoms for a while Some vitamins you develop symptoms that you need to take the vitamins to get rid of the symptoms now With cannabis if you stopped taking it And you were using it for creativity for instance Would it make you less creative? No, but the fact that you're not taking it, you know, you would have to put more effort into doing so So it's just easier to just take it So you're not addicted because there'd be no symptoms that would arise if you're not taking it like sweating and like with heroin None of that Okay, let's go back to this morning Mata because you say it's green gold. Yes. I mean green green oil Green oil is a new oil. So it means that when I'm looking at the boner I'm seeing crude oil and I can see some what's it called forex income dollar signs Yeah, so I mean so really because we're talking about branching of alternative sources of income, you know for our country And you know, so if we truly want to grow this Because I know again that There is a way to grow it that is acceptable that is free from pesticides and all of those things What is the was the fossil for a farmer that is thinking now, okay Can I grow this for business and let's say this This house of assembly are able to come together Do the thing and finally pass it into law to say, okay It is now legal to be able to transact, you know businesses and export Cannabis, right? So what would be the the the the structure like in terms of growing the plant Is this something expensive to do for people are thinking about doing it for business, you know So there's there are different ways to grow cannabis and there are different Environments that are created to grow it depending on what the situation is in that part of the world Um, it's not it doesn't have to be expensive. It could be ridiculously expensive Depends on where you are. That's why I talk about education. Education has to be key before they legalize things in the States There was a ton of education especially to the growers because the the users are on one side the Physicians that are part of it are in another group But the growers the farmers are different cup entirely and they have to be educated So talking about how to grow it is a whole education But they're not sure that there are different types of of of growing marijuana and you know going into Into the details of of its growth Is much more challenging for me than going into the downsides of its growth Because growing it the wrong way Um Obviously there'll be less quantity made because the whole idea of marijuana is the quantity of it That's what that's why it's a very lucrative business. It's very lucrative business and getting away whenever you're taking the business away from the illegal part of things or making it legal There's that that transition period is a very dangerous period because many people that were Benefiting from its illegality Will be very happy about that and they will fight that and they have different parts of the world So that's a bigger concern for me Than anything else that transition period We have to first educate people about it and then we have to put things in place to make sure people that are better that part of the education is let the people know that people that are benefiting from its And with it's been illegal let them to let them know that they can still benefit from it Locatively when it's legalized, but obviously because they have to share the profit They don't want to do that because there are more people more hands in that pot if it's now legalized People now go into it for business, especially when you have economies countries And many of them economies actually start to not depend on it But the big chunk of the economy the revenue generation comes from that So it's something that I really really would want to push education with And safety the safety factor is a very very big one What's your name come to you to ask around so we know that we don't have the best of healthcare systems here in Nigeria I don't know what the situation Is so of course we we still have a very small population of people who have access to things like HMOs And basic healthcare is expensive So if we have this as an option for example for for people in terms of managing pain and all the other various medical or medicinal uses What would affordability be like if it was then legalized and then you said, you know, of course it gets cheaper but Can you give us some sense today of how it compares perhaps in the states compared to other sort of pain medication Is it is it an affordable thing? Is it is it is that something that you know Nigerians can look forward to people who have those kind of conditions and with the measure of affordability That's a good question and I'm I'm I'm thinking of how to answer it without sounding very negative But the point is the point I'll make with that is Cannabis is expensive Let's just put it out there.  There's that expensive period Where they make their profits and eventually it will become more available to people that are less Financially viable right now. It's it's expensive in the states is an expensive treatment to have But because of its benefits the patients, especially when you're in pain When you're in chronic pain all the time from something like arthritis And you finally have something that makes you feel better and it's not dangerous because all the Tylenol and all the Paracetamol and ibuprofen that they use for pain and then the narcotics have their downsides Plenty of them marijuana has much less Downside than those medications. So we talk about the stigma attached to it. Obviously is the issue Right, but when you talk about the fact that you know bringing it into the legalized part of of things now It'll become more affordable it become more Locative to more people So become an economic You mentioned the fact that they were talking about you know, although whether because many people are using it Why not just legalize it? True, but legalize it with a lot of education. That's one part that we always leave out We have to educate. I have to get educated before I even touched anything because I've done about the stigma about marijuana Growing up. I never used it growing up never did Ever I thought it was horrible. I thought smoking was better Now I know I actually tell my person that smoke that they're better with marijuana Than nicotine and cigarettes. Absolutely without a doubt And if they're used to that habit of this having something then use marijuana Now again, I'll emphasize in countries where it's legal Not in Nigeria because it's not legal. So there's no one should be using it here But we should get to a place where it is so people can use it people that need to use it But speaking to uti's question if we are the ones growing it I don't know what the structure is like in the u.s. Whether they're the ones growing it Right if we have huge farms right that are growing for instance It becomes legal and you're growing it shouldn't the cost be You know affordable for for patients and they now look forward to probably using that as an alternative source of medicine I think it will become affordable But in the states it didn't remember how the pharmaceutical companies are in the states It's very different from anywhere else in the world. That's why that's why they're they're so It's such an expensive lucrative thing there And marijuana took the same or cannabis took the same um platform If you if you will and it's become expensive because they've refined it the products are now refined So they don't know how it's clean as late in the gummies But that's great on the farm, you know That's going on the farm and just taking the weed and just rolling it If you like calling gummies For me, I just felt like we've learned quite a bit and Like you said, the doctor has gone a long way to actually You know bring to light a lot of things that we didn't know but Yes, so I I my last I don't know if it's uh, yeah, my last question would be What are your thoughts about um You know, uh, the re I know you deal in the recreational so Not even your thoughts, but why why is there the question I want to ask is why is it divided? Why yes, what like what is the difference? Oh, the difference is just the fact that with recreation or you don't need the physicians to recommend it Oh, it's still the same product the same product. Yes, simple But without the physician recommending it in the states Glad to give us up. You're just going to the into the but they are being most of the time in the They are being sold side by side Yes But in the country in this one, let me speak to this about the states in the states where it's legalized recreation only There's no doctors prescribing anything Well, I take that back many people still go to the doctors because they want it for specific thing So they want to be guided through it But in Florida where I am you can't get to recreation only They try to pass that through through a physician. Yes. So that way it gives it a bit of you know Let me ask this question says your topic your topic on the impact of cannabis on life is very interesting I believe no country in the world will legalize cannabis usage for socialization But rather for medical treatment purposes for this reason is not open to everyone Also studies show that people who use cannabis have mental issues And emotional too No, no, no, no, so Let's say the people when they use cannabis they call no doctor I can I can see where why he would say that But the truth is many mental issues are treated with cannabis So people that have that use cannabis and have mental issues. I don't know what that means because that could be so varied. They could just be Depressed or they could be bipolar. There's so many so many mental conditions But the mental conditions will not come from marijuana unless it's laced Unless it's adulterated Unless it's mixed with something so if it is pure marijuana, you're not gonna go mental Doctor has convinced everybody to go high you come down What was up One more question. I know I've heard there's a popular one that has been making the rounds in You know the lower ends of Nigeria called colorado What is that and why does he have so much of an effect on an individual because I know I've seen it I've seen some videos on instagram and Most of these individuals end up in the corner looking like they're about to Give up on life They have a very very aggressive reaction to it. Is it cannabis too? I'm loudest cannabis as well, but they are all laced. They're all laced. No. Well, not necessarily laced But they have different potencies Colorado what loud is supposed to be that's the more more popular common one that I hear about here Um colorado, I don't know that much about I heard about it recently my last one was here I heard about it and I was curious to know whether it was an indica whether it was a sativa because I want to give up these names They're not they're not dividing it the way we divide it in the states Is either indica a sativa or a hybrid combination of the two You know what quickly hold our thoughts Please ask your guess what happens to youth in the u.s. Now that they have legalized indian him I'm a resident in the united states. There are states where it is not legal having lived in netherlands there is a costly fallout to society if Socially, um authorized. I would advise that cannabis only be legalized in the medical sphere and for government controlled Expulsion sorry exportation purposes with all due respect doctor vaping is detrimental to our health I know an award-winning heart surgeon here in houston Who weeps because one of his children vapes and this is essay. She lives in houston, texas Doctor quickly So vaping can be anything that goes in through the lungs the only that's going through the lungs oxygen air Nothing you smoke is healthy through the lung. That's why they use other ways to get in But if you do vape It's safer than smoking it Well vaping itself can cause issues in the lungs as well. That's totally true. I've regards to the fallout with the youths Youths should not be using it Absolutely not unless it's is recommended for medicine purposes As a physician, of course, I am biased. I think you should be guided by the physician I really do think so many people don't agree with me Many people don't want that extra step to get what they want to get Going through a physician, but I think it makes it safer. It makes it more more purposeful more intentional You're taking it for a reason and you know why it helps you treat that reason better I must just take it because you enjoy it Unfortunately most people that enjoy it are taking it for a reason. They just don't know what reason that is They've not been diagnosed on that note ladies.  Could we leave that to you people? But we need to bring you back. You see this cannabis matter? You see I'm always excited that I'm talking about this And you haven't even tried it I've not tried it before Oh, see Maybe the day I'm trying it you're gonna be there with me by my side I wanted to ask a final question in the night time note, but we've run out of it. Oh, yeah, quickly quickly. What is this? Why do people get the munchies after they reportedly get the munchies after? What is the munchies? The munchies are yet hungry. Oh, okay, especially for carbs Um, but they get the munchies because of the way the actual My I want to actually ask some receptors in the body. There are two types of receptors. They're called the seed the This Will you bring you measure your studio the time doctor? I wish you guys coming back for fun Oh, thank you so much doctor. I think it's really fun. I enjoyed it Yes You should come and try weed Thank you so much, doctor All right, so thank you. Thank you nj before we go Please ensure you follow us across all our social media handles that waste your Africa You can interact with us further drop a comment and more importantly follow online Engagements of social media like share and invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation If you miss our quotes for today here, it is again. I think the doctor found it very interesting He said I find it quite ironic that the most dangerous thing about Getting caught It's not using the window And this was from Bill Murray. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m Was to bring another great conversation to your screen child


Rwyfand eu ddigwyddol i'ch ddisgymorth rhagor am mwyidiol 1.5.322 ar y cyfrifwyr Gwarksson i'u'r osan brifnwyddiad yn ei ddweud eu cyfrifwyr yn barchio'r ddigwyddol yn ei ddweud.  Rydw i ddim yn gwybod i'n ddechrau i Rob Gibson, Mr Gibson, seven minutes, so thereby please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. For my final speeches MSP for Kate Ness Sutherland and Ross since 2011, I want to explore bringing more local control to the people who I have had the immense privilege to represent. I want to reflect on where the Highlands and Islands region I represented from 2003 to 2011 and my huge mainland constituency, the size of Northern Ireland, have suffered without sufficient say in their affairs. Hopefully, I'll point out how decisions that affect local lives can be sustainable, socially just and, I believe, by applying subsidiarity all our communities around Scotland can thrive. First, I recall some of the pressures that have shaken our land and shaken out its people. The so-called improvements by layers in the early 19th century evicted the age-old, garlic cattle-raising communities from the most fertile land, and then brought in sheep farming plus deer shooting and salmon angling for personal gain and the pleasure of the rich few. The results are stark. Since around 1810, the exodus of surplus population to the industrial areas and to the ends of the earth has been augmented by losses in war after war that undoubtedly makes this clearances country. I wholeheartedly welcome the 2015 Community Empowerment Act, which can pave the way to build on the act of 2003 act that has enabled 500,000 acres to come into community ownership. This cause is a long back story. Early protests against individual clearances led to the major victory of the 1880s of the Crofters War for secure rented tenure. In 1920s, the Stornoway Trust gained local control, but it was in 1992 fight by the Ascent Crofters in my constituency to win their land, which ignited the modern debate. Professor James Hunter talked of new lights shining in the glen when Crofters won. In praise of their 20,000-acre purchase, my old friend, the singer-songwriter Andy Mitchell, told it like this. No love nor commitment those past layers did display. A playground for the wealthy always was their way. This landy one stole from us, they've now been forced to sell and since we've paid for what we own, we'll try to keep it well. Our Scottish Parliament will leave its teenage years behind and reaches adulthood before 2021. There's a new mood of hope for more diverse land ownership, as discussed in the strategic report of 1 million acres under community control that is ready to roll. This opens up wider questions about democratic deficit in local government, the need to build confidence and capacity building and to use every possible resource to maintain and hopefully repopulate more of our land beyond the crofting communities, create more small holdings, 1,000 huts and allotments across the land. We must apply human rights under the UN covenant for social, economic and cultural rights that can ensure local people the right to decide how to provide affordable housing, safeguard their most cherished environmental features, supervise local health provision and develop a vibrant local culture. When I was a district councillor in Ross and Cromarty from 1988 to 1996, our policy had to cope with a steep downturn in the economic activities such as the then oil slump. Ross and Cromarty District Council promoted the quality of life at the core of our work. Fais Roche and arts provision were created alongside environmental adaptation and modern affordable house building. In 2010, as an MSP, I consulted a decentralising services in local government, arguing that small works. Today, the urgent need to develop local control could not be clearer. Local management of Crown Estate coastal funds is looming. The strategic planning of considerable community benefit funds from renewables is urgent. The need to break up Highland Council, covering the size of Belgium, is widely discussed. How can 80 councillors meet local needs in an area of that size? Cathiness has always wanted its council back and deserves to, and other areas should do too. In Highland, the democratic deficit shows one elected councillor per 4,000 voters. Germany has one to 500 who would have full planning and service powers in thousands of communes. In Scotland, we must gain the right for local communes around groups of secondary schools and their catchments to decide local taxes to meet local needs. That is the urgent business for us as this Parliament grows up, so should local democracy. Environmentally, my constituency has been heavily subject to conservation by command. All manner of designations hamstring scattered communities. We have a quarter of the high-profile core wildland areas in my constituency. Our hinterland is criss-crossed with restrictive designations. What we need is conservation by consent. We are caught between the zealots of the John Muir Trust, who want no wind power and fail to manage deer culls acceptably, and some retirees and the rich who often object to renewables or other developments in sight of their properties. Doogie McLean described the latter in his song, Homeland, Douich Macri. He sold his house in the city, put it on the market and did so good. Now you have bought yourself a little piece of something that you do not understand and you have misunderstood. Despite the growing constraints, I have witnessed many leaders emerging over the years even from the smallest communities to make a difference. Open debates and the ability to spend taxes will bring out many more local voters if we have more local elections. Those who led the communities to own their own land included the late Alan McRae of Asund, Maggie Pfeife in Egg, Willie McSporran on Gaea and the real David Cameron of North Harris. They have made their own land places of possibility aided immeasurably by the late Simon Fraser of Carlyway. At last, the poor had gained a lawyer. Of so many folk to thank in my constituency for advice and support, my staff over the years, two of whom are now MPs, I want to thank my current staff, Neil MacDonald, Maureen Forbes and councillor Gail Ross. They call me the Moss Boss. I will not explain why, but some of you know. My sincere thanks go to the clerks of Racky Spice, my MSP colleagues, not least the Racky members and most of all my family and partner, Eleanor Scott. She is my rock. We live in a better land thanks to the huge support for the Scottish Parliament that will soon reach adulthood. I will be cheering it on and helping to make our land fit for a sustainable future. In conclusion, a dozen miles from where I stay in Easter Ross at Kildermory in the winter of 1921, Christopher Murray Greave taught the children of the estate gamekeeper, whose then-layered Dyson Perens of Worcester sauce fame was philanthropic, at least in the village of Alness, near to his private kingdom. Much later, Greave, the founder of the Scottish Literary Nesons and, having adopted the nom de guerre, Hugh McDermid, reflected in his long poem Dieru 3 about the act of surmounting difficulties. Thinking of the rugged coolans of the sky, he wrote, what can be shaken, be shaken and the unshakable remain. The inaccessible pinnacle is not inaccessible. My case for deepening local decision taking is unshakable and rests on the solid ground of an increasingly confident Scotland where full powers are not inaccessible. Members will wish to note that this was Mr Gibson's valedictory speech, and Mr Gibson has given devoted service to this Parliament in a variety of roles. He has been, as we have heard today, a constant champion of the crofting and rural communities and particularly his own community in Caithness, Sutherland and Ross. Most recently, he has convened the rural affairs committee with enthusiasm and zeal in the land reform bill particularly. His contributions will be much missed in this place. We wish him, we, the Presiding Officers, wish him and Eleanor every success in his future endeavours. We now move on to the next speeches, which are speeches from Ken Macintosh and Graham Day, around four minutes, Mr Macintosh. I thank Rob Gibson for bringing forward today's debate and for his powerful personal and moving remarks. Very fittingly and historically for securing the last member's business of this session on what many of us might regard as some of the defining ideals around which this Parliament was established, promoting local control, land reform and community empowerment. In fact, I noted that Mr Gibson concludes his motion by calling us to apply the principles of subsidiarity, sustainability and social justice, and I couldn't agree more. Another term, which neatly encapsulates that same approach as the word devolution, and in many ways sums up why I stood for Parliament myself in the first place. Whether applied to the land or to community rights, it is an approach that encourages each of us to take more control over our own lives, to have the self-confidence to speak up and to see Government and decision making as something participatory rather than something done to us. I am tempted to digress somewhat and have a more philosophical discussion on the limits of localism, for example where we have to apply national standards. Given our proximity to the election, I am sure that Mr Gibson would also understand the temptation for me to tease him slightly over the centralising tendencies of his own Government. However, Mr Gibson and other members will be relieved to hear that I will do neither, and instead I want to use my short contribution to join forces with him and across the chamber to talk about how we can now use the powers at our disposal to empower people across Scotland. My own interest in the land reform agenda comes at least partially from my Highland and Island routes, but I have long believed that it is a view shared by most of my Labour colleagues that urban communities have as much to gain from land ownership and community empowerment as rural and isolated communities. The example that I want to give is much closer to home in the form of the Nielsen Development Trust. Nielsen is now in my colleague Hugh Henry's constituency, but originally it was part of Eastwood, and the origins of the trust were when the Clydesdale decided to close the last bank in the village. That caused considerable alarm, as members might imagine, and a group of residents came together in response. They drew on the powers in the Scottish Parliament's land reform legislation to take over the premises and turn it into a community facility. I cannot do justice to the amount of work that local residents put in, the crucial moments such as securing funding from the co-op and, to be fair, the Clydesdale bank itself, which was very sympathetic. In the end, they were successful and the bank was often running as a community hub. It is no exaggeration to say that it has gone from strength to strength, coming up with plans to regenerate the whole village, promote cultural activities and, in what I regard as the most significant development, jointly developing and owning a small wind farm. That wind farm has the potential to generate hundreds of thousands of pounds in income for the local community. It is a fantastic example of how we should be co-operatively making the most of our renewable energy resources. I am not saying that the trust is perfect, and the members of the trust themselves are more aware than anyone of how they could do things differently if they had a chance. For example, despite my unreserved support and admiration for the trust, I am conscious that it has tended to be dominated and driven by the more middle-class members of the local community and that there were initially at least tensions with the more traditional community council. I mention that simply because we can pass legislation here at the Parliament, but sometimes it is everybody as important to build the capacity and communities to access and use these new powers. Nielsen Development Trust used the initial land reform legislation, but it is only just qualified as a small village at the edge of that vast conurbation that is Glasgow. Not only do I hope that the new land reform legislation will make things easier for communities, I am hopeful that the community asset transfer powers will open up a whole new avenue for local residents to assert themselves. In East Remshire, again as an example, the local Muslim community has already taken over a rundown pavilion and turned it into the wood farm educational trust. Members would struggle to find a better example of a local community taking a liability and turning it into a hugely valuable and well-used asset, and it will be an interesting test of our new community empowerment act, whether it allows the wood farm educational trust to move to the next phase in its own development. I want to conclude, if I may, by paying—I am afraid that it is albeit a brief tribute to the contribution that Mr Gibson has given this Parliament—his passion for this country of Scotland and for the issue of land reform in particular—has always been evident, and he has never been more animated nor more persuasive than when arguing this cause that is so clearly close to his own heart. It is fitting indeed for Mr Gibson to end his parliamentary career on this positive, contential but still radical motion that was before us today, and I am proud to extend my thanks and those of my party for all the work that he has given to his community, to the Scottish Parliament and to Scotland. Many thanks. I now call on Graham Day to be followed by Alex Johnston. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am delighted to speak in this debate, which, as we have heard, marks the final contribution of the Scottish Parliament of my friend and colleague Rob Gibson, at least in the capacity of MSP. This is the third opportunity in a matter of little less than a fortnight I have had to highlight Rob's contribution to the Parliament. It is starting to feel like he is making as many farewell appearances as one Frank Sinatra. As I said in paying tribute to him at the final rural affairs climate change and environment committee recently, I suspect that it is highly unlikely that this institution is hearing the last of the current member for Caithness, Salland and Ross, all joking aside, that it would be a great pity if it was. Rob has made an enormous contribution to the work of this Parliament, at least of all around the issues that he is so particularly knowledgeable and passionate about. I have heard a very great deal thanks to his generosity. As we touched on during the land repayment and reform debate, the generally consensual and effective nature of the Racky Committee over the past five years has owed much to Rob's approach to convening the committee. His contributions to the committee and indeed in this chamber, and Rob, you yourself will be missed. I am sure that we will continue to hear from you in matters such as land reform in the years to come, I certainly hope so. Presiding Officer, at the risk of giving away the speaking order tonight, I understand that Dave Thompson, another distinguished representative from the Highlands, will also be making his final speech tonight. Like Rob, Dave has left his mark on this institution. I have very much enjoyed working with Dave on the Racky Committee over the past couple of years and watching him argue so passionately for causes such as crofting and fishing. A debate around localism is the perfect way for Dave, like Rob, to depart the scene as it were. He and I have chatted many times over his views, and views shared by Rob, that there is a democratic deficit in the Highlands, with so massive a geographical area with its diverse communities, represented by a single local authority. As we may hear in a few minutes, it is a case that Dave Thompson argues well. Between listening to Dave and Rob and serving five years on Racky, I have come to share the view that this Parliament needs to commit, as it is already doing in a number of areas, to handing power down to a local level. However, at the heart of localism lies empowerment, and empowerment, if it is to be delivered on the scale that we all want, will require significant capacity building. If improving how we manage our communities in the best interest of those communities and the environments in which they exist, for example, involves enhancing community councils, we have to ensure that those community councils function effectively. The county of Angus, which I represent, is concerning that two community councils are in danger of folding, whereas two others have just started out on the comeback trail. Perhaps we need to, as Rob Gibson's motion highlights, carry out a fundamental review of local government, a review that I think should consider the effectiveness of the multi-member ward system used by councils. I have to say that I am unconvinced that the present system delivers accountable local representation. Yes, there are fine examples of good local councillors across all parties and none, but the present system also allows people to coast along on the strength of a party vote or an anti-party politics vote. Localism is not just about tiers of governance. It is also about encouraging and facilitating local people to come together and deliver in the best interests of their communities to, for example, acquire land or buildings in order to put these to better use for the wider good. The Community Empowerment Act and the Land Reform Bill have opened the door for that to happen, but we need to facilitate capacity building to support communities who perhaps have little understanding of what is entailed. That is why, during the passage of the Land Reform Bill, I argued for community land Scotland to be empowered to proactively go out there and raise awareness of the opportunities that exist for change and the support that would be available to communities. It is also why I raised with the Crown Estate the possibility of their deploying post the Scotland Act and their coming under the auspices of the Scottish Parliament the experience that they have built up in working with communities to deliver local management agreements again proactively to enhance capacity. I hope that, in the course of the next parliamentary session, we will see real progress made in those regards. I now call Alex Johnson to be followed by Dave Thompson. I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this debate tonight. The main reason I want to speak in it is to pay tribute to the work that Rob Gibson has done during his time in Parliament. There are some things that have been mentioned already, but there is one that has not been, and that is the work that he has done to ensure, along with a handful of us, that the Burns Club continues to be a success within this Parliament. Rob, during his opening speech, made a number of quotes, not from Burns, but from artists known in the Highlands today. It is very much in Rob's nature that he takes the lessons of life from those who have experienced it and expressed it through poetry and song. That is something that I will remember positively about Rob. Another thing that I will remember positively about Rob is his enthusiasm for localism. Localism means different things to different people, and there is a point in this progress where Rob and I will diverge and take a different view. However, I agree that it should be one of the responsibilities of this Parliament and a whole range of fields to avoid the tendency to gather power to ourselves here in Edinburgh. The devolution of power is something that should be carried on wherever possible down through communities and right to the lowest possible common denominator, because only by ensuring that decisions are made locally can we have truly local views and needs reflected. That is probably where I come to the point where Rob and I will disagree, because Rob's experience, particularly in land ownership, is one that he gained in the Highlands. Land ownership and its functionality are something that exists in a number of diverse forms all around Scotland. My experience was different. It was in a small farming community in Concardinshire. It was an area where most farms were relatively small and were occupied. That is why I have found the land reform process in this Parliament to be one that is obsessed with a particular version of history and perhaps centred on a particular form of land ownership that is not universal to the whole of Scotland. As I have said before in Parliament, it is true that most land in Scotland is in the hands of a relatively small number of people, but the vast majority of landowners are small landowners, and we must be prepared to defend their rights, and their right to the private ownership of land is something that we should cherish. That is one of the areas where I do have some worries about the position that, perhaps Rob, but certainly others in this debate, have expressed tonight. The concept of community is one that can mean different things to different people. If community means a press towards some form of collectivisation, then it is one that I will not support and I will defend the rights of the individual. I have looked deep into my heart, I have shone lights into the darkest corners, I have even turned over one or two of the stones that I found in there, and I did not find anything that resembled socialism. I believe that it is never appropriate for us to dictate that the needs of the many should outweigh the rights of the few, and we should be prepared to defend the rights of the few wherever we find them. As we go forward, it is absolutely essential that I express once again my true and honest support for the principles that Rob has laid out, but my desire is to ensure that, as we go forward, the rights of the individual and the rights of the private land owner will always be defended, because only by defending them can we defend a truly free society and one in which the rights of the individual will always be defended. And before we move on to Mr Thompson's speech, I would just draw members' attention to the fact that this is Mr Thompson's second valedictory speech. Having given his first last week more farewell tours, I am presiding officer suggested than Tina Turner, but Mr Thompson too, seriously, has given this Parliament a distinguished service in his case since 2006, faithfully representing his constituents of Skyloch Aberyn Badnach, and his enthusiasm and care for his rural constituents, as well as his fishing communities, serves as an example to us all. Mr Thompson, we thank you for your contribution over the years and we wish you well in whatever your future endeavours may be. Thank you, but you may speak now. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer, and my apologies for having another go at having a last speech. I had intended last week to make that my last speech, but I hadn't realised that this debate was coming up when I saw it was Rob's debate and it was to do with localism. I just could not resist putting my name forward. I've known Rob for many years. He's been very active in the highlands and islands on land issues and my constituency in Sky and elsewhere, and he has an excellent knowledge of the subject and a passion for it as well. It's been a privilege working with him, Graham Day, Mike Russell, Angus MacDonald and the other committee members in the Rural Affairs Committee over the past couple of years. It's been hugely interesting and very appropriate to my constituency. I've thoroughly enjoyed it and being part of getting the land reform bill through as an act has been a real privilege. I was a trustee of the Stornoway Trust, so I was a landowner for a couple of years, many years ago. There's no doubt in my mind that there's a real appetite in the highlands for change. I have approached the Government in relation to the islands bill, and the minister will be well aware of that, suggesting that the inner hebrides, which I believe are the neglected part of the highlands, if not of Scotland, need to be considered as well as Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles when we're looking at the islands bills. When you look at Skye, when you look at the small isles, when you look at the Argyll islands and when you look at places like Neudard, which is basically an island unless you want a 10-mile hike over the mountains and places such as Aberdechyn and so on, those areas in the west highlands have exactly the same problems and issues as Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles do. I have asked the Government and I put a submission into the consultation asking them to consider creating a council for Skye, Lochalsh and Lochaber, and I know that Argyll is a council at the moment, but there are many islands there. I think that we need to look at those areas in the inner hebrides and the west highlands as a special case, they're different. Many, many miles from Inverness, if you are in Uig in Skye, you're 130 miles from Inverness. I know that because I was over there on Friday again, 115 miles to Portre and then down to Raze for a wee while on the Saturday and back home on Sunday, it's two and a half hours non-stop driving and that's all within my own constituency. It's crazy, it's too big. Geography needs to be taken into account when we're looking at council boundaries and sizes and also when we're looking at constituencies for the Scottish Parliament. It's not fair in constituents that they have so far to go to meet their MSPs. What we actually need is going back to the borras, so the little places from 10,000 to say 50,000 in Highland, in the greater Highlands area, maybe covering for Murray to Argyll, we could have a regional authority dealing with strategic matters but then right down, so a Skye and Lochalsh council again, a council for Tain, for Wick, for Thurso, for Oban and give real power and real money to these small councils. It's up to other people to argue in relation to their own areas but my remit is for the Highlands and Islands and we really need to make sure that people engage again with their local communities. Community councils are failing all over the Highlands, they're disbanding, they're resigning in disgust, they've no power, they've no money. You wouldn't need more politicians because you wouldn't need community councils if you had really small councils with 10,000 or 15,000 of a population and you wouldn't need to elect people to the strategic element of it because you would nominate from the small councils up to that level. All you would elect are people in small councils across the... Well, the Highlands and Islands, why doesn't the Government actually give us a wee pilot project? Pilot it in the Highlands and Islands and then you'll see if it works elsewhere in Scotland. Anyway, I'm conscious of my time, Presiding Officer. I could say an awful lot more but I will stop there and wish Rob and everyone else in this chamber all the best for the future as I head off into the twilight as well. Many thanks, many thanks. Before we move to the closing speech from the minister, although he hasn't let us know that this is also his valid rectory speech, although perhaps he has when I check my notes, members should be aware that this is also Marco Biaggi's last speech in our Parliament as he moves on to greater things. Mr Biagi has made a huge impact in a relatively short time in this place and having been first elected in 2011 and in that time he's served as a convener, the deputy convener of the Equal Ops Committee and he took through the same sex marriage bill. In 2014, because he's the fast track young man, he was elected or selected to be the minister for local government and community empowerment, a position he's held for the last two years and carried out the work of that office with great distinction. Mr Biagi, we wish you well in your endeavours whatever they may be in future. Good luck. I think that that was a call to speech and I'd actually like to start by saying how much of a fitting send-off this motion is for my colleague Rob Gibson because a bit like him this motion is packed with ideas for local democracy, communities and land reform and taking together their unifying message is a testament to the role their proposer has carved out for himself as a dedicated, thoughtful and occasionally just the right amount of outspoken champion for the Highlands and as a committee convener an esteemed voice on rural affairs, climate change and the environment in this Parliament. As was just said this will be my own final full speech and I would therefore beg the Presiding Officer's indulgence to take some time to develop a broad response to Mr Gibson's equally broad motion which I believe is fundamentally linked by the question of the amount of control people and communities have over their own affairs. That applies in Rob Gibson's rural Caithness and my own beloved urban Edinburgh central. When I was elected in 2011 my acceptance speech was a product of three things euphoria, sleep deprivation and a lot of rehearsal in the Ingolston toilets. It has been immortalised by the former First Minister as this victory is statistically impossible. I maintain I said no such thing, I only thought it. But what I did say was that this would be the Parliament and Government that really changed Scotland and did so for the better. I contend that we have done so, but not in quite the way that I expected at 6am in Edinburgh that evening. The voting buttons of this Parliament have brought much change, probably too much for Alex Johnson's liking, raining down on the nation's heads over the past five years. We are not just the nation's Parliament, we have a growing sideline in being a job creation scheme for political historians. The Community Empowerment Act of the Motion, which I had the privilege and indeed challenge to take through, is still sitting there like a present under a Christmas tree. It is wrapped, we have noticed it but we have not yet opened it to see what wonders truly lie inside. We also empowered people individually and tackled social injustice by passing equal marriage, which gave me two stand-out memorable experiences—testing the Presiding Officer's discretion by tweeting a photo taken in the chamber of the yes button highlighted in front of me—and, more enduringly, being a witness at one of Scotland's two first simultaneous same-sex weddings, both of which were very atmosferically asignations at midnight. Those are two personal highlights, but the real change has been the spirit that has run through the country. It is a spirit of that subsidiarity, sustainability and social justice. Scotland has changed. It was not principally through the actions of her Government or her Parliament, indeed, but of her people. Though she was offered full control of her own country, the people of Scotland drew back. In that process, they built a great, loud, irreverent, sometimes rowdy public square and threw the great questions of state into it like fruit into a smoothie maker. In 1971, Chinese Premier Jiu Enlai was asked what he thought of the consequences of the French Revolution. He answered that it was too early to say. We will likewise be working out the consequences of these years for a long time to come. However, if we or the next Parliament think that those desires were just for greater national independence and not greater personal and community independence too, then we are misunderstanding the people more than history has misunderstood Jiu Enlai. Although that is how the question is famously remembered, it is a misattribution. Its meaning was lost in translation and he was not referring to the revolution two centuries before but the events of Paris in 1968. The ambitions of the people of Scotland must not be lost in translation. They wish to be closer to the decisions that hold such sway over the places they hold dear. They ask how much control they have over their own lives. They ask it of the nation but they ask it of their cities, towns and villages, who they pay their taxes to, in what form and how it is decided, who owns what and to what purpose. Those are great questions of community as well as of state. This country now needs to be changed materially. Like clothes grown out of, our institutions now hang uncomfortably on broadened shoulders. I am proud of our record but community empowerment does not come from one act. It comes from every act taken to make society more just, taxes more fair and control more local. It will not be for this Government but for the next one to build on the work done already to recognise that great challenge and meet it. I have chosen not to be part of that next Parliament or indeed that next Government and I wish everyone who is very well. At the end I am just reminded of some wise words that I heard spoken on a departure. There must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. Many thanks. I now close this meeting up on one.


Members of the People's Democratic Party in Oshawa, Oshun State Capital and youth have protested against the verdict sacking Governor Adim al-Adiliki as governor of Oshun State. The Oshun State Governorship Election Petition Tribunal in a split document of two to one is declared that the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, should withdraw the certificate of return issued to Adiliki and issue same to former Governor Adibuiga Uyitola. Now the protest is bearing placards with inscriptions such as Oshun citizens reject Uyitola on mandate we stand. Imoli has come to stay. The Tribunal panel is not fair on today's judgment, amongst others. Very well Governor Adim al-Adiliki has appealed to his supporters to remain calm, saying that he has appealed the judgment, assuring them that the injustice will be redressed at the appeal court. Joining us to discuss this is Ayodeji Ulogun. He is the Spokesperson, Transparency and Accountability Group TAG. And of course joining us later is Hashim Abioye. He's a PDP attorney. I want to say thank you Ayodeji for joining us. Can you hear me Ayodeji? Yes I can hear you. Thank you for having me. Good evening. Great. I know that this is something that the Governor, the former Governor had been speaking of even after he had handed over to Governor Adiliki, he had continuously said he was going to take this matter to court and here we are today having this discussion. Explain to us what you think, how you think things will turn out, because I mean Governor Adiliki is saying he's still Governor, he's not going to leave Government House. Of course by the value of the courts and by the norm, Governor Adiliki remains the Governor of the decision of the Supreme Court, I mean appeal court is taking and of course up to the Supreme Court which is the provision of the law. So between now and the appeal at the appeal court and subsequently at the Supreme Court, Governor Adiliki remains the Governor of the state. The judgment of today, even though has been passed, does not validate the fact that the former Governor, he told me to resume back in the office immediately, I'm aware that Governor Adiliki has filed a notice of appeal which will be heard and subsequently perhaps there will be another appeal to the Supreme Court except either of the two parties decide not to appeal what outcome of the appeal court will be. Having said that, it's also important to put into perspective the fact that politicians are the most hopeful people that you could ever come about, they don't give up easily and they don't accept easily, I mean they don't accept defeat easily and of course in politics you don't, you don't, you don't rejoice too much until when you have all the channels I mean exhausted for victory. In the case of Adiliki of course, the case was taken to court by the former Governor and we have been showing hope along the line as surely members of his party that the victory is coming there and what we have today is the assurance of that hope that he hasn't talked about relying on the provision of the law as far as the issue of voting and the use of both beavers in the election is concerned. Today the judgment of the court has been given two to one in the majority vote but of course as I've said the notice of appeal has been filed by Adiliki and we hope in another two months the court of appeal will give its judgment and then whatever happens there will determine if either of the two parties will still move the case on to the Supreme Court which is a terminating point of his use that concerns governorship election. Okay, I think joining us we have Hashim who's a PDP attorney. Hashim can you hear me? Hashim can you hear me? I think you need to unmute yourself so you can talk to me. Can you hear me? Hashim can you hear me? I think that you need to unmute yourself. I can hear you. Ah, perfect, great.  Hashim? Hashim, Hashim. Hashim. Okay, great. Hashim. All right Hashim, you are an attorney for the People's Democratic Party. Explain to us what has just happened. Even though, yes, we understand what the tribunal has said and the governor, I beg your pardon, Mr. Adiliki has of course appealed or filed an appeal to the appeal court and he's saying that there will be some form of redress. But looking at what the petition of former governor Yatala carried, he- it was on two grounds. First, he said that he claimed that the election was characterized by over-voting in 749 polling units. And also argued that the governor, Adiliki, had forged his academic credentials that he submitted to INEC to contest this election. Hashim, can you go ahead please? Yes, okay, thank you very much. Well, I would want you to read the majority decision of the tribunal very well and the minority decision of the tribunal. So before you form an opinion, but let me tell you straight away that, as far as section 138 of the Electoral Act 2022 is concerned, Senator Adiliki remains the governor of Osho State until the Court of Appeals says otherwise. We have from now, as allowed by the law, to appeal the judgment, the majority decision of the Court of Appeal. Majority decision, quote, unquote, so there's something about that, but we will be talking about it much later. But I want to say that the decision of Justice Kume and that of Chief Magistrate Torabi was not signed in law. Basically, the decision was based on a controversial primary, I mean on a controversial source. We have a secondary source. We have a primary source. The primary source of evidence that was before the tribunal was jettitioned by the majority, I mean the chairman of the tribunal and the Chief Magistrate, that is member two. We are talking about controversial pieces of evidence. If there are two controversial pieces of evidence, you don't prefer one to the other. There was a previous report gotten from the server by the petitioners. There was another one gotten from the server as well, issued by INEC. To tell you that there were two controversial reports from the server, and this server report that we're talking about, they have secondary pieces of evidence. So in a situation like that, you go to the primary source. You're talking about the beaver's machine reports, the reports from the beaver's machine, and you are talking about the server. Now there is a controversy about what is contained in the server report. Then you recall to the primary source. The primary evidence was clearly before the tribunal. The beaver's machines were before the tribunal. They were demonstrated and the tribunal in the judgment, given the majority decision, had learned that it was taken as demonstrated before the tribunal by the provision of the Electoral Act 2022. So if it had been taken as demonstrated, so why go to, why looking for another source of evidence to come to that the primary source of evidence? So can you use a secondary piece of evidence to negate the primary source of evidence? When the beaver's machine itself was before the tribunal, and the tribunal granted an order to the respondent, to the second respondent, specific leaders, Senators Ademola Adelike. Okay. I think that we lost that connection with you. But I just wanted to ask, looking at the case that you've made, that there are controversies, two controversial evidences, and the fact that these came from- And in the majority decision, get the report extracted from the beaver's machine directly, not from the beaver's this time around. I mean, not from the server this time around. And the tribunal also get the decision, the beaver's machine itself. So if the server report is talking about something else, and the beaver's machine that you claim produced the report in the server, have been placed before the tribunal, then why preferring a secondary source of evidence, which is controversial, which was challenged, frontally challenged, over and above another one that was before the tribunal. In this case, the primary source of evidence, the beaver's machine itself. So that's to tell you that the judgements, the majority decision of the tribunal, was one judgment with so many questions to be answered, and that will be done as about to move to the penultimate court. That is the Court of Appeal. So I believe by the Court of Appeal, we do justice to the majority decision that was delivered today. And I want to say that if you go by the minority decision, if you look at that decision and you go through it very well, you will see that it was very sad in law. It was clear that you cannot prefer a secondary piece of evidence to the one that came from the primary source, from the primary source itself. The minority decision clearly stated that as far as our electoral law is concerned, even though our electoral law has recognized technological device as part of the electoral process in terms of accreditation, in terms of verification and authentication of voter data, you cannot in any way get to the voter's register because the information on the beaver's machine or whatever technological device is to be deployed by INEC is contained in the voter's register. And going by the step by step by electoral process as provided for in the electoral guideline, beaver's machine goes concurrently with the voter's register. So we cannot prove overvoting without tendering the voter's register and without tendering the voter's, the beaver's machine itself. In this case, the petitioner has failed to tender either of the two, yet the tribunal relied on a controversial source to give victory to the petitioners. And one more thing is that the law is clear. That is the electoral law you can check from Section 50. Section 51. So you can read and go through it. You will see that if overvoting is established, if at all overvoting is established and it is found to be substantial, no return shall be made. If it is substantial, no return shall be made. If it is not substantial, the court will go ahead to declare the winner of the election. I mean, the court will not and will count the overvoting which is immaterial, which is not substantial as nothing at all. And the winner will remain the winner. But if it is substantial, no return will be made at all. Okay. That definitely... All right, Mr. Abyari, I would really like for you to hold on. Let's get Ayodeji back into this conversation. Ayodeji, he's made a very interesting position and talked extensively as to the evidence, the primary and secondary evidence that has been brought. He's talked about the majority and the minority in this particular vote that brought about this tribunal's position. Where do you stand on this? Do you totally agree? Of course, like the governor has said, this is subject to appeal. But let's hear your thoughts. Oh, of course. One can vividly understand the hand-good that Abyari Staiashian is coming from is a member of the PDP and is one of the legal team of that party. So his anger and his disappointment in that judgment is quite understandable. But then, as much as I'm not a lawyer, common sense would demand that when the judgment of this nature is given, especially when there's room for appeal, such a judgment should not be subject of dissection by lawyers or by ordinary persons on the street. What we should wait for is the filing of the appeal and then the decision of the judges at the appeal court to determine the grounds upon which the judgment was given at the tribunal and find whether the decision of the majority is signed enough to uphold what has been decided at the tribunal or otherwise. So I think it will not make such much sense to get to dissect the judgment as it has been given today. A judgment has been given. And whoever feels cheated or otherwise has the room for appeal, which of course am aware that the PDP has filed an appeal. And we should also put this into perspective that for those who are thinking that votes were erroneously cancelled and those votes belong to Nadeleke, which gave victory to Obokala. You should be understood that votes were cancelled across board. Votes were also cancelled from what Oetola got in the general election. He had the battery left for something in the election as announced by Heineck. And by the time the voting was removed, I think he came down to about $314,000 today. And Nadeleke came down to about $2,000, something thousand. So for people should understand that the usual voting does not involve only one of the parties. Our voting was rejected across two parties, both the APC and the PDP. And as such, the remaining votes were calculated and the judgment given. So whatever the outcome of today has been, the next step would be that the two, the debate that in this case, that's the PDP and Nadeleke, should move on to the appeal. He argued there are cases before the law justices of the appeal court. And let's see if the appeal court will be holding the decision of the tribunal or it will think otherwise. I just want to dwell a bit on this issue of overvoting before we wrap things up. Because one would look at the beavers and the technology that's been introduced into the voting system as one that's watertight and hoping that these kinds of teething problems would not arise. Being that also, or Shuana Kiti, where some sort of a litmus test for the general election, what does this mean for the general elections in its entirety? With what's happened now, will we also be afraid that we might have another case of overvoting and then tribunals going back and forth on this issue? I think there's one thing that the tribunal and the judgment of today has been able to give which is giving credence to the voting power of the electorate. There's no way now that anybody can do manipulation in election and this will give confidence to voters knowing fully well that their votes will count. As the electoral law is clear that where there is an overvoting and election such units or polling booth results should be cancelled and that's what the position of the tribunal today has been. And as much as we'll think on this is a challenge to the election I rather believe that this will uphold the electoral tendency it will allow INAQ-6 sites and it will allow politicians to know that manipulation cannot be done in the election. Simply because even if you rely on using unedited voters or you rely on writing figures from any quarter in your city or anywhere or decide to bring on due voters to the polling unit the beavers is clear once you are not captured on the beavers you cannot vote. And whatever the figure of the number of people captured by the beavers if it contradicts the total vote reported in that place it's not going to become null and void. So this begins another awareness on the part of this party organization and of course to every voter that as much as it is important that we vote we should also ensure that at the polling unit here we're going to vote in 2023 we ensure that whatever the result of the beavers is it's not in contradiction to whatever result is announced and that as that will amount to waste of effort and waste of votes. So I believe that with the same time between now and the 2023 election coming up in February for INAQ perfect whatever they need to do to rejuvenate the confidence of the body in people and to also tell politicians that look enough and then that come to what that means of victory rather than what the law makes provisions for. Okay I'd just like to let Mr. Hashim to you know give a final word Mr. Hashim going forward now don't forget that in Oshun state there's been this back and forth between the APC and the PDP about violence and clashes back to back I remember having a representative of the government and of course a representative of your party on the show and it looked more like you did it no I did it and now with this that's on the table how is the government of the PDP going to make sure that there is calm all through the land and there will not be any form of attacks even though there's been a bit of violence in your state? Well thank you very much quickly I want to say that reacting to the judgment in a way and manner it was delivered today does not mean prejudging what was before the tribunal because the judgment of the tribunal had been delivered had been rendered so I think commenting on it at this time does not mean that we are prejudging what is before the Court of Appeal so that is when we get to the Court of Appeal but as it is today what we are saying is that the majority decision was not signed in law at all and cannot be sustained on appeal I want to quickly say that the people's reports that the APC relied on heavily was presented at the tribunal to be what it was not and the minority decision clearly dealt with that but I need to quickly add that PDP is a party of peace PDP we in the PDP are peaceable we are peaceful and we don't subscribe to crisis in any way so it is only the APC that parent talks and all that here and there but I need to quickly remind my brother my friend there Mr. Yorogun that what he claims to be overvoting as contained let me say as purportedly contained in the Beaver's report was not overvoting so to say to establish overbooking we have to establish overbooking on the basis of the physical materials that were present at the polling unit but let me show that server was at the polling unit then you can now see there was open if actually there was at all so but I tell you that there was no overvoting as presented by the petitioners at the tribunal we have to go we have to go we have to go we have to go gentlemen unfortunately time is not on our side I want to say thank you Ayodeji Yorogun who is a spokesperson transparency and accountability group TAG and Hashim Abirye is an attorney for the people's democratic party in Oshun State thank you so much gentlemen for having this conversation with me Thank you very much thank you for having me thank you and that's our show tonight but we cannot leave you without bringing you the highlights of this week every Friday we give you you know a tease of what we had been talking about all through the week so I'm going to leave you with that but don't forget you still have an opportunity to pick up your PVC before all of this is put to bed and don't forget not just enough for you to pick up your PVC but be certain who you're going to vote for and why you're voting for them I'm Mary Anacone have a good evening and enjoy your weekend


Give me that blow by man pass the ball man. Come on. Yeah Cash Trace that's that's Jordan. Yo Jordan his soul Hey, try that my guy didn't drop 12 on me though. Let's talk about that real quick. How many is your guy drop four one for seven? You start zero Yo cash, I'm gonna be honest bro I think it's your fault man cuz cuz you're wild and right now doing these self-values my guy like Los was out there saw some bro He was I'm not I'm me be honest, bro It's been a while since I pranked somebody on NBA 2k18 and well, I had the perfect opportunity So I took it so I'm kicking back doing my thing is 1 a.m. I get a dm one of my group chats someone tells me Los is playing cash and they're streaming it listen Whether it's real life whether it's for night whether it's 2k anytime those guys clash it gets really heated So I tuned in game number one cash loss game number two cash loss game number three He needed a teammate. I sent a slick little dm saying yo in case you need somebody man I'm right here. I can really shoot. He saw the greatness in me He sent me a dm back said all right join the party All right, so I had a game plan going into this if you guys remember when I prank Hank I'm gonna leave a card above and a link in the description. It was too obvious I'm not a horrible player and when I'm out there breaking shots and playing zero defense They could easily tell when I'm trolling them So I wanted to keep the facade going and make him think I was really trying and because cash was streaming I can get live feedback if the chat is roasting me while we're playing this game I'm doing my job as a horrible player that includes but it's not exclusive to missing any of all of my shots Proceeding to blame all of my teammates when things go wrong and Occasionally giving those complements throughout the game now if there's nothing cash hates more than losing is losing While I give compliments about how fantastic loss is playing throughout all the games Offensive three offensive three, he's been in there for a decade Oh shoot I know and I'm sorry. I'll do it actually next time Give me that blow by Give me that Kobe's great Kobe's great. That's a blow by right there eat food Two seconds After the first quarter, I'd like to think I'm on pace. Nobody is suspicious.  They'll know what I'm goofing around They can see a troll from a mile away, so I'm setting the ground work for quarter number two. Hey, that's buckets Yeah, that's a to yo, baby That's Jordan yo Jordan hisso's I think most is pretty good. I mean, he's not fantastic. He's straight We differ in opinion Yo, let's talk man, what do we do how we get back in this? This is a constructive feedbacks right at So before the second half goes under way I recognize I gotta turn this up Listen, if I'm gonna get cash angry I'm gonna have to play pretty horribly right now I'm only over three this basic on the team was horrible the power forward and the center were just like colliding with one another So it didn't even feel right to drive. I felt like it'd be too packed So literally on offense. I was just sitting in the corner. I knew that had to change I'm not gonna let him do it. This is how we go.  I did a horrible job and we're down ten So I'm feeling pretty good about our chances of losing game number three Damn, they're not taking a serious bro. You see what he just did Damn We're really forcing down low man.  Hey, trust me. I got this. I'm Jordan. I'm the goat watch the head. Oh There you go My rating is It was at this point I realized I didn't even have to do all of the work since we were missing so many wide open shots Players like Choi Dan chose Yana sounds to come up. Well, obviously isn't a great three-point shooter They were kind of just doing the work for me with their open misses That means I can stay undercover but cash wasn't blowing up like he was in game two and in game one So with two minutes left. I knew I had to do something to get a reaction Loose wasn't making my job any easier in previous games Loose was dropping some buckets and that infuriated cash a lot in this game Loose hasn't scored yet if cast is gonna get angry Loose is gonna have to do something you have to drop some sort of bucket But it wasn't happening and there's nothing really I could do about that So the game was over and I haven't made a single shot I want people to be able to look at my box score and go agent you scored zero points The entire twitch chat was saying agent zero points They were having the time with their lives roasting me and I was dying inside Although some people were trying to point out it was a troll. I was like, yo, don't ruin the secret man We haven't gotten to the point yet games been done and I have to turn it up a notch Yo cash, I'm gonna be honest bro. I think it's your fault man Cuz cuz you're wild and right now doing these self-value. It's my guy like Loose was out there saw some bro. He was I'm me be honest, bro What's that mean cash? What's that mean? No Loose got zero points, but I feel like defensively. He did pretty good Not cuz sometimes, you know, it's just rotations off the screen and teammates not picking up Nah, I'm I'm very unbiased man. I'm very It was at this moment that Troy Dan realized I had zero points that entire game Asia Bro, you know see me clamp up Troy. What you talking about, bro? I was clamping up everywhere, man Try that and take the same bro. I was kicking it man. You see me spreading the floor in the corner I was putting in all kinds of work. I was a utility player out there. You see me Hey, try that my guy didn't drop 12 on me though. Let's talk about that real quick For one for seven Oh Say it say it try that once you got to say man, you can put the control on you guys are clogging up the paint I'm not gonna force a drive. I just kick it to y'all y'all want to eat the paint up do your thing I'm a spread the floor. I'm a magnet already. I got Michael Jordan. I clamp up on defense I did my job Troy then that's you in the paint my guy. That's you down there It was you and real job to get buckets in this game cash put in his 17 cuz he could who that's what I'm saying, man This person take it try that man. Alright, man, you win you win. I think I failed this prank guys I mean, I definitely had fun and it was hilarious getting these reactions, but I didn't piss cash off I didn't do it. He was so patient with me the entire time and I have no idea why I mean granted I clamped up Zach, but I don't know how much 2k he plays. It was a pretty easy defensive cover I was playing horribly that whole game. I sat in the corner the whole time I had a 99 overall Michael Jordan and I couldn't do nothing to get cash to get mad at me when I pranked swante It didn't take much. He exploded success when I pranked Hank the tank He quit the game, but on Twitter we kind of got into it and it made up for everything He began to block legend of winning on Twitter and it was his whole fiasco of sub tweets It was hilarious I believe my whole playlist of the pranks I've done against other youtubers in the description or in a card above if you Guys missed it, but I would consider this a failure I need to get a chance to tell cash. This is a prank because he left the party. I guess he was ending the stream I don't know what he was doing Were you recording night? Yeah, before he left I wanted to tell him it. Yeah, I Literally came on figured you must have been doing so it and I downloaded 2k 18 again for the express purpose After like a month of not playing of trolling and I wanted to get so furious bro But he wouldn't get mad at me as garbage is that a good way. Oh, why was he getting mad at you? I figured that's what you're doing in like the third quarter as fun as this was I was hoping he got furious I was hoping he kicked me from the party and he went off on a massive rant and none of that happened I'll take it though. It was a lot of fun Hey if you guys enjoyed the video drop a like subscribe to guys and you put on them post notifications Cash, I apologize next time. I'll take it more serious This is also the first time I've ever played team up So you probably should check with me to see like if I have team up experience because although I play a lot of Pro-M in some part. I definitely don't play team up cool experience for my first time I'll definitely be playing some more. I'm gonna catch you guys in the next one. I'm out peace