On the breakfast, less than 8 weeks to the general elections, more than 6.7 million Nigerians have not collected their Permanent Voters card, who will be having a conversation with an INEC official. Also on the breakfast, the Central Bank of Nigeria says it has established policies to address the persistent Naira depreciation. And don't forget, we'll also be looking through today's newspapers, analyzing the biggest stories of the day. Welcome to the breakfast in Plus TV Africa. It's a beautiful Thursday morning and it feels really great to know that you're here with us. Right? My name is Messi Bopu. As always, we set up our conversation with top trending and top on the least for us this morning is that there's also another concern with ASU. So ASU is protesting, not necessarily getting to the street, but we hope that this does not result to another action, probably a strike action and what have you. The head of the ASU chapter at the Federal University of Technology, Mina, has confirmed that the government had not sent the Chekhov dues for November 2022 salaries. So if you're asking what Chekhov dues is, is the money removed from an employee's pay for membership in a union or in an organization, and of course, talking about representation of a work in a particular industry. And so that's why this conversation is ongoing. But we need to establish that there's ASU, there's Konoa. I think that that might be the issue, one of the issues. So you also have the head, this is one chapter of the union that's making this complaint. I know that over time you have ASU, a different point talking about this due that's been deducted and the government is not remitting.  But the issue is that the account of ASU was not credited. Government has given a justification for this decision. And they say that constitutionally, there's a provision of the trade union Act, section 37, subsection 1, that says that every year, every other time, annually, ASU must render an account of money remitted to the body. Well, and they say that all ASU member gets a monthly deduction. So in this case now, ASU has not submitted that audit. I mean, they submitted that report and that's why this is actually ongoing. However, all ASU members are suspected to get a monthly deduction, which is usually given to ASU every month to run the secretary. They also submit an audit report off their money annually, just like I mentioned for a period of time. And so this is the complaint. Well, the reactions and the conversations have continued. And I think that these are lecturers, these are persons who are very displeased with the entire system and the entire process. It's like a two-way thing. Now that you have ASU and you have Konawa, whose side do you have to go to? I mean, is it compulsory association? Being a member of this union, is it mandatory? Is it voluntary? What happens? 2% is what is deducted from the entire package. It's not on the particular salary. Some persons have said that it's a shame that ASU leadership is complaining about the federal government not remitting into its own accounts to check off dues of members deducted from November salaries. Why is government deducting the check off from members? This is also another part of the conversation, rather than allowing members to choose where to belong. Is it ASU or Konawa? They have registered that, you know, we're talking about now. They have to decide, you know, where they belong. But if only they're allowed to say, hey, it's reasonable to get here or get to the other part. I think the parts of this time, because also in 2020, ASU members of the union had complained about the deduction that's been ongoing, and they had said that you can't deduct 2% from salary. This is a conversation that has been going on with the union, right? Members of the union, and they're complaining very well, saying, you cannot deduct this amount of money from the account. You can't deduct this amount of money from the account. And that's what ASU have said over time. And they're saying, hey, why don't you allow the people to go ahead and belong? And if you're deducted, it doesn't have to be that way. Some people have said that the deduction is a universal thing.   And then there you become a member of the union, not the other way around. So these are some of the conversations that have been going on about ASU and the union and what have you. Some people have said that the ASU leadership fabricated a constitution that lacks approval of members deducting 2% of each member's monthly salary. And heaping up millions upon millions of Naira, they say that that's to run the secretariat. But it feels like it's a situation where people are aggrieved. Some others are saying that the federal government should stop ASU, the Chekhov dues deduction from its member salary, and allow individual lecturers to decide which union they want to join. So the conversation will continue. But like I rightly mentioned, I hope this does not constitute to another industrial action. Industrial action where these lecturers will say we're not going back to the classrooms, we're not going back to lecture, and what have you. But there was also one complaint that was very outstanding. And the complaint is that, you see, in whose interest is all of this deduction? So yes, once upon a time, we hear that the government was owing the people 6.8 million Naira, deductions that were never remitted. Why will the government not remit this back to the account of the people? I mean, they are responsible for all of that. And some other persons are saying, well, you see, ASU, you're taking so much from the people, from the membership. Well, it's good for you. And then at the end of the day, whose friend do you say that these persons belong to? Is it the government or the leadership of ASU? What exactly is going on? Well, we will constantly say that the interest of the people should be what it should be over time. And that that should be very important. And every other person should pay attention to the issues. I'm moving away from that conversation. Another top trending is that the Nigerian country has recorded 23,550 cholera cases and 583 deaths. Now, according to the latest report by the Nigerian Center of Disease Control and Prevention, that's the NCDC. They review that between January and November 2022, 11 months, cholera killed 583 persons while 33 people died of the disease in November alone. A total of 23,550 people were infected between that period, January and November 2022. Now, the report also showed that 10 states accounted for 95% of the cumulative cases of the disease in the country. The states are burning with 12,459 cases. Yobbe, 1,888 katsuna with 1,632. You have Gombe with 1,407. And then Taraba with 1,142. Karnu with 1,131. Krosheva with 649. Bauchi with 649 as well. Zamfara with 630. Jigawa with 417. It's also reported that 32 states and the federal capital of territory, that's the FCT, had reported suspected cholera cases in 2022. I don't want to go on to mention these states, but well, there's a lot. There's six states, 32 cases or 32 states, however. But let's even get back to what cholera is. It's been proven by medical practitioners that cholera is an acute diarrhea illness caused by infection of the intestine.  So there's a bacteria that's responsible for all of that, and that's been medically proven. The infection is often mild or without symptoms, and for most times it's very severe and life-threatening. Although persons have lost their lives due to cholera. However, cholera is largely associated with rural communities and among people with poor nutrition, poor water quality, and poor sanitation. Hence, it has not gotten the desired attention from the government if you look at it. Now, in all of the states that this has been mentioned, it's very important to state that, you know, cholera itself, it's in rural communities. You don't really find that in urban cities, right? So in rural communities where you can't really guarantee access to portable water, you can't really say there's access to a lot of infrastructure and what makes life, you know, 100 for a lot of persons. This is where you find it. But I think that the conversation around cholera has been going for a long time. We've grappled with cholera even when there was a COVID-19 incident. And, you know, this conversation is ongoing, but you have expert who have advised that washing hands frequently with soap under clean water is very, very, very important, right? This is one of the ways and means to prevent all of this. It's also been said that you have to do that and especially also important that we pay attention to the issue of defecation before, you know, handing food or eating. People who should avoid open defecation, I mean, it's also important that people avoid that indiscriminate waste dump which contributes to the spread of cholera and also the issue of improved access to clean water and proper sanitation and hygiene. It is also a critical measure to prevent cholera cases and outbreak. These are expert issues. Moving forward to our thought issue on the top trending this morning is that President Mohamed Buhari or the federal government has inaugurated the NDDC Board. The federal government on Wednesday, that was yesterday, inaugurated the governing board of the Niger Data Development Commission. That's the NDDC. The agency had been without a board for almost four years now. The Senate on the 20th of December 2022 had confirmed the nomination of the chairman and the board of members of the commission after the president sent their names in accordance with the NDDC Establishment Act of 2000. The new chairman of the NDDC Board, Loretta Onoche, her old Nigerian, so gave the board a breathing space for the job to be done. She said that since the establishment of the agency or the act, the commission had received a lot of flak from all and sundry. And consequently, the board will be looking to review a lot of issues in addition to the guideline issued by the Honorable Minister and be looking to review the existing policies guidelines to enable the commission to have a clear side as to where to hit the ground and running. According to her, she said we cannot continue working with a field template and expect to get a different result. Well, in my interest, Loretta Onoche, the chairman of the NDDC governing board, is the seventh chairman of the governing board of the NNDC. And DDC, I beg your pardon, significantly. And she is the first woman to be appointed. We'll just leave this and say, let's have a married time. The board has been constituted. Some people say it's better late than never. But we know the issues. The issues are almost endless.  However, we'll leave this at this point. We'll definitely be monitoring the development and all of the issues from these agencies. That's the NDDC.  Many thanks for staying with us on Off the Press. We take a break. When we return, we'll be looking at the front pages of our National Dailies. Please stay with us.


give and take have done pretty good in the others here. And I wanted to come by and see if you've got everything solved for the year. 1986, I think, I've called it a year for opportunity. I think it is a challenge for all of us both legislatively and politically. But I'm convinced that by working together, we can show the American people that their elected Republican office holders continue to provide and produce positive results. Next week, I'll send you my budget for fiscal year 87, which will meet the requirements of Graham Rudman without raising taxes or threatening our national defense. I also want you to know that I do want a reconciliation bill. Our last year's bill was unacceptable because of many provisions which increased spending or made ill-advised policy changes. I'm hopeful that we can work with all of you to reduce a reconciliation bill which confines itself to reducing significant necessary budget savings. On tax reform, let me reiterate that I would not sign the bill which passed the House. However, you've helped to keep the process alive, which I deeply appreciate, and I'm going to assure you that we shall work closely with the Senate to obtain a bill which achieves real tax reform. On the foreign policy front, we have a number of vital issues aimed to freedom fighters in Nicaragua, Angola, and elsewhere. Defensive arms for moderate Arab states, isolating Qaddafi, and of course, issues related to the forthcoming summit with Mr. Gorbachev. I imagine you've already covered some of these items this morning. I really want to hear on your mind. So on stop before I start the problem ground, you're going to go over it. Let's start the discussion, and Bob, would you like to read off? Well, Mr. President, we've already given some preliminary remarks of recommendations to the administration that won't burden you with that. But Dell, that was about to make whatever observations he made. I think we ought to just proceed as we've been going here, and I feel you'll want to be acknowledged next. And then I think Bill Frenzel, so why don't you sign off? It's a great time.  These cuts come up there, and we cannot lose sight of the fact that this past of Congress, the United States, of the bombing. And you're merely following through on that mandate of those cuts coming up there. Because the word I get is accurate. Bob, you can probably attest to this. That Tip O'Neill might take that budget and send it right up there for a vote. And I think we've got to be looked out for that with what these cuts in there. We've got to be prepared to support that and to throw it right back in there a lack every time you mention Graham Rudman and these reductions. Will you vote on that? You know, when the president and the Republican are merely following through on what the Congress mandate does to do. I could agree more. And I just may have managed to say one thing about this. No, that's our deal. I just want to say that I think if you really look at it, this is the first time in 50 years, for 50 years, our side has been mainly against the continued deficit spending. Here and there, there's been a single year in the 50 where we maybe balanced the budget very briefly. But if you start to think about it, it was the first time there has been a plan. No way to balance the budget in one year. There's been a plan that says we start here, and out here, we have a balanced budget. And anybody that wants to break this process on the way is breaking a whole five-year plan and getting us back on the track of continued deficits. Well, Mr. President, first I'd like to compliment you on the speech you made Tuesday night. Bob and I, a number of members, have talked about it. And the seven presidents we both served under, that was the finest speech I've ever heard in my life. And it was right on target. And I think everybody here would agree it's just outstanding. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. President, I have heard recently that one area that's under consideration is increasing foreign aid. Now, I want to compliment Don Regan for arranging this meeting so that we can talk about some of these things. But I think this is the time, if we're going to talk in capital a little earlier, spoke about the distressing situation as far as the defense with a reduction of about 6% this year, I think it would do your whole situation as far as the budget real well if you could come out and say, we're going to cut foreign aid 6%. Now, I had an excellent meeting yesterday with the Republican members of the Foreign Affairs Committee with your new National Security Advisor. And I recognize there's some very, very sensitive areas that you need additional money, particularly as it affects the Central American area. Now, I just wonder why it can't be some reprogramming. I'm not against whatever figure you come up with as far as helping the Contras. I think it was nice to see Israel offering some money bag. But how much better and how much easier it would be for all of us in the House of Representatives if we could say, we're cutting foreign aid, even if it's just a little. But don't increase it. I think it's going to be the hardest thing to sell if we're reducing domestic programs and trying to increase the defense as to what you need. I'm only speaking from a person who backs you 100% on this program. But I really think it's going to be very, very hard to sell a budget and sell an increase in foreign aid. Read program, do anything you have to do to give what you need on some of these sensitive areas. But don't increase it. Hell, Israel and some of the others can take a cut this year. All right, May, I just say one thing about the whole thing there that I don't think has ever been made clear enough is that foreign aid is not just a case of helping out, let's say, the economies of some countries. A large part of it is health and security, which is far more economical, where our interests are concerned than if we had to provide that security that would be far more expensive. And so in that case, we're kind of dictated to by the circumstances of what we're up against. Bill Frenzel, do you want to be recognized next? Yes, thank you. Mr. President, I really wanted to direct the question to Mr. Miller, so maybe it is inappropriate. Yes, please. Mr. President, I'd like to bring up the question of immigration reform. In the winter of 1981, there was the first capital travel task force that you formed. It became a priority as an administration, and during the three congresses of your presidency, the Senate has passed legislation that you approve of three times. The last time the House passed in 1984, the measure after 10 days in conference couldn't come to a resolution for a couple of issues. And one of them had to do with reimbursing the states with the cost of the utilization of your own state of California was particularly concerned about the burden of public assistance that you could be forthcoming from the utilization. The bill now in this congress has passed the Senate once again overwhelmingly. And the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, the committee of primary responsibility, Peter Adino, said early on, here we go, that the price for his really putting the shoulder that we are in finally getting this issue resolved this year in this congress was a strong commitment, personal commitment by you, plus an early resolution of what will be the proper dollar figure for the states. I have carried this message to many of your subordinates in the White House and the Justice Department, and really for the last almost a year, there's been no such commitment in response. And I'm dedicated to immigration reform, but I do hear more and more that the question, well, does the White House really care about it as much? Does the Justice Department care about it as much as William French Smith did when he was there? I just want to take this opportunity to pass this on to you directly this morning. Thank you. Well, when you started out, I thought you said that we were, you saw me, I had to turn my button up a little bit here. I thought you said the immigration bill? Yes. The impact, but because then later there, I thought maybe you were on something else and I was getting a little confused. Well, no, I do feel very strongly. I think that our borders, we've lost control of them and the first basic responsibility we have, and I believe that maybe that you haven't heard me say anything because of the other things on the plate that we've been so busy talking about taxes, Graham Ruddman and so forth, but no, I'll be very frank about that. Feel free to speak out, and I'm sorry that anyone's got the wrong impression. I believe we've missed that immigration legislation to get control of our borders again, and I'll be preaching for it. Here he goes. Yes, thank you. Mr. President, it's the last year it became very apparent that the Democrats were going to attempt to make trade one of the major issues in the coming campaign. Don Regan mentioned very early on his comments that the economic news that we'll be hearing evidence is that trade imbalances continue to be difficult. I want to bring your attention, Mr. President, the fact that Bob Michael and the leadership to recognize that as a potential issue early, the leader has introduced a bill, a Republican bill that places emphasis upon open markets, upon the impact that our dollar can have upon trade circumstances. We're seeing some improvement there. An effort to recognize that free markets will make the difference and barriers are not the answer. I would hope, Mr. President, in this area, that you'd instruct your people to get in the middle of this early, work with our leadership, way before the Democrats try to get the issue. It will be critical this year and I think we're way ahead of it. My cousin wants to talk. I don't want to touch that one. Just to reassure you, Jerry, we had the first of what will be regular legislative strategy sessions on trade protectionism in the light yesterday. Had all the players there. Had George Schultz, Jim Baker, Mac Baldwin's play item, and the light so that the White House and the White House would be able to see and the light so that the White House and the partners will be in concert on this. We have made a firm resolve. We are going to be very much against legislation that will set up trade barriers. But we will definitely be enforcing and we'll soon be hearing about this 301 and 201 cases. And we're going to pursue a lot more of those in the near future coming up with that. I hope you look at the microphone carefully. Oh, yeah. The health bill up. Right up. Could I just say one thing that you mentioned here when you said about the dollar? I just said to our people the other day, I think we ought to stop talking about reducing the value of the dollar. What we are interested in for our opponents, bringing their currency up to match the dollars closer. And it's there being so far behind an economic recovery that leaves us up there all alone. But let's talk about keeping a valuable dollar but let them come on up and match us. Just a comment on that, Mr. President. I think you're absolutely right. When we talk at home about reducing the value of the dollar, it's kind of like tearing up the American flag. You know, it's just really a bad valuation to talk about reducing the value of the dollar. But if you just talk about increasing their value to match ours. I can remember a few years ago when we had a dollar at this level. Some friends of mine were on a deep-sea fishing trip down to Lower Baja in Mexico. They came back horrified. They'd gone into the village to do some souvenir buying, bring presents home to the family, and so forth. And the Mexican shopkeepers refused to take their American money. They didn't get over that. And Jean-Marie Blané from Paloma, I can tell you. I think this is a very important meeting for unity of purpose. And as the ranking committee, I'll have some other issues to talk about. It used to be the dimension case. Council. And the problem with this housing, as I mentioned yesterday, Jim Milner will take a pretty good hit in this budget. And I can handle that. That'll give me some heartburn. But the representatives from the Comptroller's office at the IC have said that there would be cuts if one are known as non-appropriated funds. I don't know if this is... I thought I should mention this meeting. Funds which come from fees and assessments against those, and they don't have to make substantial cuts in their operation. The other point is, and this has come up for a foreign aidist concern, and I agree with Milner, but we have to make some cuts for foreign aid, it seems to me. But what about the multilateral development banks? That's within the jurisdiction of our banking committee, and the thought has been that these are legally binding commitments that we've already made. We make cuts there, or what's the party line as far as our concern? Jim, do you know the exact figures? No. Let me answer the challenge this way. What we have done, I don't think you'll see us asking for any new increases in the capitalization of these international banks of the fiscal crisis here at home. What obligations that have been obligated from the past we will have in the budget. But no new funds for any new starts, and what we've been trying to tell, as you know Jim Baker's statements in the light, is that the World Bank should reprogram itself, not look for new funds, but reprogram its existing funds and put those to better use. Mr. President, that was directed pretty well at all of us. We look around this room, for example, and she's the only woman. And we tend sometimes in our discussions here to forget that there's extra special dimensions of a woman's point of view. She addressed herself more in particular, I guess, to find some of the cuts that will take place that have an effect on minorities maybe, not exactly, maybe the way you said it does. So that the President gets the full flavor of what we were talking about here. Mr. President, I think it's very important to remind the time you've got some hard miners around here that anything you say will do it. But we know in a practical sense up there in the floor in the house where we have to live every day and really get things done that there's another dimension to that. And there are those who, for considerations back home with their own personal feelings for whatever reason, it takes those views, melded with those of us hard rocks to give you the full flavor of what your legislative liaison people really have got to deal with in a practical way. So live. I never intend to speak to the Republican leader again, but... Mr. President, you understand how stubborn people are from Northwestern Illinois, so I will go ahead. My point is this. I guess I won't be insulted by not being called a hard rock. I... I have been with you on all of your budget cuts in non-defense programs. My point, and I will repeat it, is this. In this room where the only minorities probably were the waiters, where there's only one woman, I believe that your administration suffers sometimes rightfully from the perception when you're making these non-defense cuts announced by rather wealthy-looking white males that there is no understanding of what those cuts will mean. Now, I know you understand and I know your personal feeling for everyone, and certainly your cousins and Kathleen Burgers and Jim. I'm just saying we've got to do better in that area. And in a budget where you're going to have a real growth in defense and perhaps foreign aid and all the cuts are going to fall there, may I at least suggest psychologically there be more of an effort to look as if you care and more people around you that bring that dimension to your white house. Was that nicer than I was? Mr. President, I agree with what Bill Ruefield said. I think that if we took an increase in foreign aid to the floor, and I'm not sure our committee chairman would need to do that, of course. A lot of Republicans, even a few, used all of your talents to do so, and the Republicans would love, I think, to have you in the position of increasing foreign aid or cutting your white house. That would be something. I would hope that in doing the foreign aid we keep in mind that if there are reductions, I think that's what's going to happen, that we do it even in a stand where they tell us when we had a military dictatorship where you gave so much money we expect to get at least as much. And now that we have what they call a democracy, certainly moving in the direction. And they are very, very sensitive to this sort of thing. I think we can get away with not increasing that as they were going to ask us, but we sure couldn't get away with increasing, for example, I think another thing, too, with regard to ensuring Jury is exactly right that is an issue that's shaking up. I think we could do a better job probably have to do it quietly, with our allies in Japan, Korea, Taiwan have started to by emphasizing how their failure to take appropriate steps to help us could result in hurting their security. I told you Tuesday what I told some of the Koreans, if they didn't handle this issue right or help us handle it right, they could end up with another Jimmy Carter who got their picture. I think it's very important that we do everything we can to get them to take some of the steps and infuse that issue, because as you know the Democrats have sent an override on your text on the veto for August, right in the middle of the campaign. If they should succeed, it might be just horribly disruptive, not only to us but to the internal just terrible friendships and also I just want to tell you this is believing all of those things are a bit interesting. There aren't some difficult things where security foreign assistance problems that have been raised. The other day one of those problems was the person the little children was in my office. They were kids, I don't know where any of you have seen them from Afghanistan. They were weird tots. They either had one leg gone or one arm gone and one had arms and legs but was horribly scarred and literally gargoyled all from the Soviet bombings in Afghanistan. Things like that just pray on us. But Lynn, I just wanted to tell you because I know you know that I'm on your side in these things you know we have among our military aides now the first officer of the Coast Guard that has ever been a presidential military aide. Also the first woman because that Coast Guard officer is a woman. And the other day I just, I love this I was kind of teasing her about something I had to do with the meeting I had with an admiral and she listened and then very quietly said Mr. President, you understand that the Coast Guard is the unit around which the Navy rallies. Frank Martin, if you want to wrap it up one of the things I'm particularly concerned about I've just finished office hours up in my district I was four counties I saw on a one to one basis over 2,000 people I'm going to start next to Friday with another about nine days and I'll probably see another thousand people and one of the things that in upstate New York I come from Rochester and I got in early this morning and opened the mail and I brought along with me a copy of Telling Land which has been sent to you this is from the mayor of the city of Rochester but it expresses one of the things that I've heard from many of the mayors county executives and so forth it has to do with the budget cuts as it relates to the domestic programs. In our area we're losing a lot of jobs and we are very much concerned about the Syracuse for example which is not in my district but my district is right around it. GE has just announced closing the plant 450 jobs, the Bristol Myers is closed and that's several other hundred jobs in Rochester, New York, Kodak laid off something in the center to 700 people, flak and decker are closed down and there's a number of those in the state of New York and this telegram I think expresses some of the concern and I might mention also in our area I don't know if it's true in others but many of these municipalities are unable to meet their insurance costs, their liability to meet their municipal insurance cost just on out of the site. But this has to do with the Federal U-Day program. Since I'm urgently, this is a telegram address I'm urgently requesting your reconsideration of the decision to defer indefinitely the Federal U-Day program coming on top of the proposed elimination of revenue sharing and a rumored 15% deferral in FY86 community development funding. This announcement strikes at the heart of the efforts of the urban areas of our country large and small to revitalize themselves and create sort of needed jobs. The city of Rochester used U-Day program to spur downtown renewal and industrial expansion U-Day grants received today that leveraged over $220 million of private investment in the creation of over 1,800 jobs. That is an important problem in our area and I think in others and one of the things I just like to ask is that there be consideration given on the problems of these cities and these counties so governments are having and some of these programs like EDA, the problems that they have with regard to sewer, water and this sort of thing are very serious problems in the North-East Midwest areas and I would hope that there could be some consideration given so that we can revitalize and keep our industries and our area and keep these jobs that we're apparently losing. I know but I think also that all of us have a longer-range look and recognize that some of this unemployment and it's spotty that you know we can't go by the national average. The truth of the matter is we have a higher percentage of people working than we've ever had in our history and right now we have wanted as in Sunday papers around the country that multiplied and are more than we've had in a number of years of employers asking some of these those things we have to face are not because of the economy they're simply because of our increasing high tech that is now making some jobs obsolete and some some areas are going to have to face the fact of maybe even replacing I'd like to suggest again there's a thing up there before all of you call the enterprise zones that could be a very productive feature in this a number of states are already trying it on their own and without federal government doing it and every instance is successful but our job training partnership has been more successful than any federal job program that we've had so far and here again the use of that I think but it could mean that mayors don't want to be in the position of suggesting that people leave time but part of this problem is going to be relocation where industries just are no longer existing simply because technologies has taken them out of the competition or the need for that many employers all of this is what I guess I'm trying to say boils down to the before we follow the old roads that we've taken in the past with regard to economic recessions let's make sure that we're embarked on a path that is going to use the marketplace and not just displace it and that is going to treat the problem on a permanent basis and believe me having looked for my first job in the Great Depression and I have an inbred sympathy for what is happening to these people that are being laid off President, I thank you very much for your time and thank you Thank you I just think there was one thing I'd like to hear from you yesterday afternoon I phoned all the families of seven heroes and without exception before the conversation was over every one of those Greeks could have said to me but you must keep the programs going Thank you Good to see you


Welcome to Montpelier Civic Forum and we're on the road to Town Meeting Day 2020. We've got a whole series of shows. This year we have a really rare occurrence. We have two open seats in District 3, one of which is the one-year seat filling Ashley Hill's remaining term and one is the two-year seat replacing Glenn Hutchinson. We also have incumbents running in District 1 and 2 being Connor Casey and Donna Bate and we have the school where all of the candidates will end up on the school board. And we also have Libby coming in to talk about the school budget and we have Bill Fraser coming in to talk about the city budgets. All the shows are well worthwhile. Tonight is a really good one. We have Jim Murphy who's the school board president. And how long has Jim Murphy been the school board president? Since October of 2018. That's a long time. You're heading towards John Holler territory. Maybe. What's school board president do? The school board chair just basically facilitates the board meetings. Meet with the superintendent weekly to set the agenda to convey concerns about the school board to discuss items to make sure that the school board is thinking about the things it needs to think about as communicating well with the superintendent and that we've got a good agenda. We're talking about the matters that the community wants us to talk about and that the school needs us to talk about. How do you ascertain what the community wants you to talk about? We listen. All the board members I think have a role as community facilitators, as voices for their constituents. So my board members will tell me that they've been hearing certain things in the community. They want certain things discussed. Not all things make it. Some things are more appropriate than others. Some things are, oftentimes, people try to go to the school board directly when calling up a principal or the superintendent could resolve the issue. So first of all, we figure out is this really a board matter? And if it's not, we try to handle it. As own budget. Yeah, exactly. And then some matters are right for the board. So that's how we do it. We largely do community feedback.  I'm a parent, yes. Which school or schools? UES and Main Street Middle School. So you've got both of them covered soon to be the High School and Main Street Middle School? Yeah, next year will be two at Main Street Middle School. And then the year after that, I'll shift to the Main Street or Montpelier High School and MSMS. Your older one, was your child always in the Montpelier School District, or did they move in from another one? No, my kids have both started in kindergarten. They both did there. They both were Turtle Island and Children's House. So they've been in the Montpelier education system, private and public with their own kindergarten. So being that this is Montpelier, likely their prom date is sitting in their class somewhere? Probably yes, yes. If you could discuss our enrollment. You see the enrollment projections. How long have you been on the board now? Four years. So you've seen four years' worth of projections. How close have we come to those projections? The longer term ones. Pretty good. I mean, we've projected an upward trend, and it's been a steady upward trend for the years I've been on the board, which is unique for Vermont. Most Vermont towns are going in the opposite direction with a few exceptions, thus being one of them, which I think is a real testament to our schools. I think people are moving to this community because we do have strong schools, and it's also a great place to live. We have a strong community in general. But yeah, those have allowed us to invest in our schools, I think in ways that other communities have not been allowed to invest in their schools, because we have advantageous tax consequences because we are a growing town. And we picked up Roxbury in a consolidation. How long ago? It was official that we're in our second year of the actual merger in terms of students being at both. Now how many students are coming in roughly annually from Roxbury? Yeah, the total RBS school is a little under 40, so you're getting on average about five to seven kids per grade. So it's really small in a sense. It's relatively small, but it makes a difference. I don't have the exact figures out the top of my head, but five to seven students has a significant impact in tax rates, actually. So the more students you add to the mix, the more you're able to do without burdening the taxpayers. Now there was a tax break that the state implemented in that act in order to get districts to step forward and consolidate. Yes, and it's a stepped tax rate. It was eight cents, six cents, four cents. I think we're in the last year of that. We have a fantastic budget manager in Grant Geisler who's done a really good job of forecasting it ahead and making sure that as those tax breaks go down, there's cushion in the budget to absorb that, so it doesn't become... So it doesn't become a very large lump sum? Yeah, so it doesn't feel like a tax hit. Now, Libby's going to discuss this, but I just want to walk you really briefly through health care and its impact on the budget. Yeah, my understanding, and I do not pretend to have a full command of all the details, but my general understanding is that unlike some other districts in the state that are going to be pretty severely impacted by the results of the statewide health care for teachers, we are in pretty good shape. It will either not really knock us off course or it might even play out slightly in our advantage. So we're in a pretty good spot in terms of health care, and I think that's because of the system we have and also I think we've got good budgetary management in the district. In terms of management, this is something that forever... I mean, I've been in this district, I've been in this town forever, and there's always a question of the relationship between the board and the administration and the superintendent and her administration. How do you understand that evolving in terms of responsibility, in terms of authority and accountability? You know, I've actually tried to focus on that a lot. I see the board's role is... it's pretty high level. I think she kind of backed away from formal policy governance, which I think everyone... What is formal policy governance? Policy governance is the idea that basically you just set policies and then manage the CEO to see if they're reasonably following them. The policies are very high level. For instance, in true policy governance, something like the budget is a consent agenda item. You can't really oversee it. And we felt that just given the fact that the policy governance model is really made for like a nonprofit board. We're really not a nonprofit board. We're kind of a hybrid between a board and an elected entity. And we do have constituents, and constituents have questions about the budget and they want us to know about the budget. And they also, you know, there's some agenda items that the community wants brought up and brought to a board level that might not be appropriate in a true policy governance system. So we kind of backed away from that and acknowledged the reality that we have a level of detail and involvement in things like the budget and in things like the after-school program that happened last year that just really doesn't fit under policy governance. So we still try to stay at a high level but realize that there are levels of involvement that the board has. But are you working on metrics in terms of acceptable scores, like in our proficiency-based graduation? We are certainly looking at those in terms of the performance of the whole district. And, you know, one of the things that we've been working on is really asking Libby, and she's done a fantastic job of it, to start putting some data together on our scores and how we're measuring up. And really the last couple of years has been the first time we've had good data about what our scores look like. Now are you talking about aggregate scores or are you talking about subpopulations? We're talking about both. We're talking about really getting the type of scores to get the overall picture of how our schools are doing vis-a-vis other schools but then also being able to delve into equity. Is everyone in our schools, being able to access the level of education they need? Are, you know, subgroups doing well across the board? And, you know, as you know, you know, Bob Piller does well overall, but unfortunately we have students who are falling behind and we've had trouble closing that gap. In terms of, now again, this makes me feel like your dad, but when my son, who's in graduate school now, was at Union as a small child, we were still doing portfolio assessments. We hadn't had the kneecap yet. We hadn't gone into our proficiency style graduation. We were years away from proficiency graduation, which I'll ask you what it is. Do we still do portfolio assessment? Is there a softer side of assessment that parents are aware of besides the parent-teachers conference? I'm not aware of portfolio assessments being done, so... Okay, so they weren't... Again, what it was was it was parents meeting and being able to see the child's work and the child helped assess their progress. Well, I mean, there's definitely the... at least in the... I don't know how it's out of the high school, but at the middle school level, the elementary school level, there are parent-teacher meetings that are student-led where the students come in and they do something similar where they show their work and talk about it and, you know, talk about those meetings. So it's still... We still haven't left the softer assessment of success. Yeah, we still haven't. And that gives the student, I think, an idea to engage their parent and talk about what they're doing and build confidence in that way. Well, that was the purpose behind portfolio. What is proficiency-based graduation? So proficiency... It's a new law. It is new law. It's a legal requirement for the... the familiar ABCD grading that probably you grew up with and I grew up with. It's really moving towards the idea that you're trying to teach kids skills and proficiencies that they can then bring with them throughout life. And it's more of a focus on giving students the opportunity, one, to actually reach proficiency, not just give them, you know, go through a class, they take a test if they get a nef. Okay, they get a nef, it goes on the record.  And also the idea that skills kind of transcends a lot of subjects. So when you're in science, you're also, you know, you're writing. You're presenting orally. So those are skills that you're building and skills that as part of your science class you should be looked to be developing. So it's the idea of really focusing on skills and building skills through a variety of ways and giving kids kind of the chance to keep coming up to proficiency. And what grades does proficiency testing start? The grading has started I think through all levels. And the idea is that by the end of the year you want all your students at least proficient in the skills that they need to move on to the next grade. If a child is proficient in all of those skills at the beginning of the year, are we advancing children upgrades? I think we are certainly trying to challenge children that need to be challenged. What about children who don't need to be challenged but need the challenge? I'm saying this in the most inarticulate manner possible but a fourth grader who comes in meeting all of those proficiencies and still needs a challenge are they taking the proficiency training that they've already know? Probably in certain circumstances if a student really is at a grade level then you're probably talking about the possibility of moving them up a grade if that's what's best for their educational needs and there's considering social and other needs. I think that teachers are trying for students who need more challenge to make sure they get them and then of course once you get to kind of the later middle school level and high school level there is more room for kids to grow and advance at different rates and at high school and other options the opportunities for advancement and challenge are really much broader than they were Well Matt McClain's been doing community based learning for a long while. And that's a hugely growing program and as we put more resources into that that's one of the most popular programs at the high school. What kind of resources are we throwing into Matt's program? He just has he actually just did a presentation on it but he has three or four people working in fact he's gone from kind of doing it solo to now being director of a program that has three or four staff people who are making sure that there's rigor in the programs that are doing outreach of the community that are making sure that kids can get where they need to get so those are relatively new things and as a result it's both expanded the program and also added a level of kind of rigor and consistency even though people have different placements throughout the community they're getting a consistent level of supervision and structure to their programs. Speaking of getting kids where they need to go how's the school busing of middle school kids doing? The school busing middle school kids has been I think well appreciated throughout the community I've heard a lot particularly from middle school parents who live somewhat more on the outskirts who work, who have busy schedules they're feeling that they know their kid can get to school safely in the morning without them taking them which some of them don't have time and I think also after school now they know that their kids can go home How is that program doing? We replaced what community connections with another after school all things I've heard have been positive it's increased capacity we've kept Drew Norton on as an after school coordinator so he's been able to expand his work and I think really kind of focus on the things that he likes to do so thus far the hiccups have been few and self-sustaining it's staying within its budget It is staying within its budget I wanted to get to an issue that we discussed last time that we discussed this and we'll discuss next time that we discuss it because it's a real issue in terms of parents and the community at large school safety and I know that that weighs on the board tremendously as it weighs on the entire community it's in the background how are we doing in terms of school safety? I think we're doing a fantastic job in terms of school safety Libby has really concentrated on some programs to make sure that teachers are trained for an event we've got we've got a relationship with the police department where we've got a member of the police department who's basically responsible for coordinating with the schools We've had that for a while but it was in terms of drugs and things like that Is it now in terms of school safety? Yes I think we've put measures in place to ensure that our teachers are trained and know what to do Libby just recently went to a training on school safety and the thinking on that has evolved quite a bit as unfortunately we've had experiences across the country to learn from So it's definitely a big concern Well, you get a buzzer to get into school now Yeah, exactly But it's even more than that It's how how teachers are being trained to react in an active situation An active situation being an active shooter situation? Exactly Or some other active threat What about parents coming in? Those are gun-free zones Yes Teachers with guns? We do not want teachers with guns Why not? For a variety of reasons One, teachers are educators They're not cops The presence of a gun can lead to accidents Teachers just aren't trained and it's unrealistic if they get the training to react in a situation like that There are much better ways to keep kids safe And the things that teachers are being trained in For instance And this is kind of morbid to think about But the previous training was around things like just duck and cover And what they found is that actually kids should be evacuated and moved out Because when people just sit and cover it can take a while for cops to get there and quell the situation And you oftentimes have sitting duck Is evacuation training for kids traumatic? We do Fire training on a routine basis Yeah, they're not doing that level of training with kids And there's a real conscious decision that that is too traumatic for them Basically, what studies have shown is kids will follow the directions of the teachers and if the teachers know what to do if there's a situation where action has to be taken the kids will follow the teachers and we do not need to put kids through drills like that because it is traumatic and it makes them thinking about things that they don't need to think about Staying in the school on social issues Religious freedom in the schools Has the board addressed that at all? Yeah, we had a policy I think both our community values and our view of the school is the school should be a place where all people feel included and equal And bringing religion into the schools in ways that makes people not feel included is something that we're not supportive of at least I'm not supportive of and I don't think the board as a whole is The administration has taken steps to make sure that around holiday times that we don't promote certain religion So student allowed to wear clothing that expresses their religion? I think a student absolutely is the school itself is not going to promote symbols But individual students can still wear a cross?  Yeah, absolutely In terms of free speech what about the political rights of students? Are students allowed to wear political buttons? Are they allowed? Where would run afoul expressing a political opinion in our school district? Yeah, I think basically if it caused some sort of safety issue it was intended to intimidate a certain set of students or a student and I don't know the legal standard exactly I'm trying to paraphrase as close as I can to something that was intended to incite violence Or obscenity? Maybe I'm not sure exactly Is a student newspaper an MHS? Is that edited by teachers? I don't think so But I'm not sure But I don't think it is Drugs at the school, how do you think we're doing? For years there's been a wink-wink situation in terms of we know it's there Yeah, we know it's there My understanding is that we definitely have use of substances that ideally we would not have I have not gotten the impression that it is a severe problem although of course you have younger children but I hear enough Obviously you don't want kids doing things that are unhealthy or unsafe Or illegal But I think compared to some of the problems that some other schools are having we are not in the type of scenario where I would say I don't know if I were you Has decriminalization had any impact whatsoever on marijuana use? I don't know Because that's a reality up here and the fear was that decriminalization would bleed into a younger clientele Yeah, I mean I don't know Is that discussed at all by the border? It hasn't really been discussed No, I think we Is that brought to you by the community at all? Is it a concern? Not Not much That's Montpelier But I also I think one of the best ways to get to get students involved in things other than drugs is to give them alternatives for healthy engagement and I think one of the reasons we probably have drug use that's not as problematic as other communities is we have a supportive community where kids can do a lot of ultimate Frisbee teams Yeah, exactly, well that's what they're doing They're playing ultimate Frisbee and Yeah, it's awkward This is one where people who aren't on the inside of this conversation sit and say Huh? Transgender and nonconforming students It's a major initiative within the school district, yes? Yes, it is certainly important Can you explain that to people who know nothing about that initiative when it started what it involves and what the objective and goal is So when did it start? I think it's been an evolving conversation over several years as the district has come to the realization that we do have gender nonconforming students and they face some really huge challenges we don't have a society that's necessarily accepting of them or that's welcoming of them A society or a community? I would say both I think the society as a whole is not accepting and I think we're trying to wrestle as a community with being a place where we are accepting Now is that community a broader community beyond the schools that you're talking about? Or are you specifically talking about the school community? Because there are, it's a bend diagram Yeah, I mean the board is obviously related for the school community but you know there's synergy between the school community and the broader community and I think if the school can be an example of a place that is welcoming of gender nonconforming students and transgender students in the ways that we design bathrooms in the ways that we accept them in the ways that we give them support a gender change then hopefully we can be a lesson for the community and and get people asking the question what does this mean and why should I care? In terms of process I imagine it came from parents and then went to the board I think a lot of it came from students too I think students that you know, transgender students and students that were you know, facing big life decisions and having to change genders in a school environment were saying we need support for this this is a big deal and this is something that we need acceptance of but not just acceptance but support So it went to the board what did the board do at that point they have a concern in front of students who feel that they're not accepted fully accepted as they feel they should you probably have parents saying that my child is not and other children that we know under similar circumstance are not feeling welcomed in this school which I think is the core of the school's mission is that every child feel welcomed and strong and healthy so what did the board do at that point we put in place policies that explicitly state that this is a value and a priority of the board in the district and that instructs the administration to take measures to ensure that we have policies and support and resources in place to make sure that are transgender students. Now when did this come to the, was Libyan at this point or is this before Libyan, Brian and Ricka I think some of it definitely was during Brian's reign and then you know part of the Black Lives Matter flag we put an equity policy in place and worked with students on that and worked with Libby on that and then as part of putting new policies in place for the new merged district that also became very important that we did you get any parental resistance on this I mean it is not everyone's not in agreement on this being a priority you know they're certainly worse than parents who weighed in with questions about that you know you know uncomfortable that there were bathrooms that you know multiple genders could use were there hearings on that did the school board hear parents or was it a thing where it was handled by Libyan or staff did it make it to the board? Oh no we definitely are the board level I mean we heard from students we heard from some community members it's been an evolving discussion there's been several board meetings for it's been on the agenda to some extent what at this point remains to be implemented I think this is because this is one of those issues like racism that I don't think just goes away in fact I know it doesn't go away we're going to have to keep checking in and making sure that we're truly being welcoming and it's something that I think we're going to constantly be on top of you know the fact of the matter is I think we've taken a lot of positive step but I think there are still transgender students you know LGBTQ LGBTQ yes thank you students who are not feeling welcome in schools and who are you know again you've got your ear to the ground on this for those of us who don't watch your meetings or don't have parents talking or don't even have kids in the school as we don't what are we hearing from those parents that that's left why if we're addressing the issue what is the lingering left you know on this well I think a lot of their students are still facing I mean I could see it in the broader society but again I come back to our son in graduate school this was an issue that was kind of worked out in a lot of way it wasn't transgender in those days but gay students weren't stigmatized in the least you know ten to twelve years ago well I mean I think there's definitely been advancements but I think you know both students and parents of LGBTQ students and transgender students are finding that you know there are subtle ways that they're not being accepted and you know just because so the comparison to racism in a sense is apt exactly just because you put a it's a small minority group within a predominantly white school yeah exactly I mean a lot of it is implicit and you know also just because you put policies in place doesn't mean that you change culture doesn't mean that small little statements that that aren't so small because they well they're personal or they carry away I mean you've got again a predominantly white heterosexual relatively educated culture and there's a lot of privilege there and I think getting a lot of folks to realize their privilege and how their actions impact you know minority segments within our population that's takes ongoing work. See now we live fairly close to Union Elementary and walking back home one evening we saw an extremely well attended meeting on this topic are those regular meetings that are being held at the schools? They're, that was a series actually put on by Mara who's the new new member through outright Vermont that was I think a series of a few meetings they're semi-regular but they're not a regular thing and yes we would like more of them and again that constant education from I think a variety of angles is extremely important. Again this dates me as almost like your dad do they still have a gay straight alliance at the high school? Yes. Again that's been going on for a long while. Yeah. It's been renamed. As it probably should be. As it should have been a long time ago. So basically this is an issue that you feel that people feel good about that change. Oh absolutely I mean I think we it's it reflects the board's values, it reflects my values it reflects the community's values I mean to the extent that I don't feel good about it it's to the extent that I feel we've got a lot of work to do. I feel this is even though we're well ahead of many other communities I think we still have a lot of blind spots and we still have a lot of work to do it's going to take quite a long time. Are there other social issues social awareness issues that the board is dealing with? I still think that a lot of our students of color do not feel that they have the type of welcoming environment that they really need to succeed and that's everything from not feeling fully included socially having comments directed against them that clearly have racist intent or racist implications behind them it's fully integrating a curriculum that that includes the history of African-American ancestors we still have a history that's largely male dominated that leaves a lot of the female story out as well certainly the LGBTQ community is not well included in a lot of our curriculum I mean I think we're doing a better job but you know we're still it's still George Washington and the cherry tree to some extent. Do the kids in Roxbury feel fully welcome? They've got the long bus ride and then they leave is there a problem there? Yeah my understanding is that you know the integration has been a little uneven I think some students have felt very welcome for some students there's been a little more of a challenge integrating. Is there something that the board can do you know to change the human heart? I think again I think it's you know it's education it's giving those students. It's also only been two years. Yeah it's only been two years I think time will help with some of it and you know giving all the students the support they have you know socially and emotionally to you know to integrate as well you know but I think it's been by and large good but not perfect.


If I ever had to go into a situation where a lot of brain power was involved, whatever it was, and somebody offered me new peps, I would probably take it every single time. I have had no bad experiences with it. I do generally think it helps in like a small little sense. It's not really something that I overly feel or I feel this specific thing, but I do believe it helps and I would take it betting on that it would help my verbal fluency and my memory recall and everything that goes along with a healthy brain. But that being said, after all the doses I've tried, I just can't really get a specific effect off this supplement. There was times where I took up to four pills of 40 milligrams. I just really didn't notice much and if I look back on the days that I took it, you know, everything was pretty good. Everything was fine. Maybe that was the new peps. I don't know.