Welcome to the bull and bear show episode number 31. I'm your host rich from rich TV live and I'm here with blaze. How you doing blaze? So brother. Hey man, I'm excited excited to see you just a couple days before Christmas want to wish everyone a merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Happy holidays. Hope you're enjoying this holiday season and it's been a fantastic year in the world of crypto. It's been a fantastic year with for some stocks. It's been not such a fantastic year for a lot of other things like oil and small caps which have struggled across the board. So we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about your top 10. We're going to do a one on one with blaze. I'm going to have a link in the description of this video where you can go directly to blaze and you can subscribe to his channel. And we're going to be finding a more about blaze today. So we're going to go over all the topics that are trending for the week and then we're going to talk to blaze about his story. So I'm excited to hear your story today blaze. I'm excited to do this and let's get this show started. What do you think? I love it. I'm on the other side finally. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Sometimes you're doing the interviewing. Sometimes you're being interviewed. That's just the way it works. Exactly. All right. Well, let's get started with our first topic here. So this is the first topic right here. Let's take a look at this. So the first topic is the thing that everyone's been talking about in the crypto world, Bitcoin spot ETF approval to be a buy the rumor by the news event. Not sell the news, but buy the news. Do you agree with that? What do you think? I do agree with it. I think it's going to be more of a rumor than direct news simply because the SEC likes to tangle with people and take their time with things. So I definitely believe that the ETFs are going to become more of a rumor at first to get it popular. Yeah, because typically what happens with a lot of investments, we have a buy the rumor where people buy it in advance, which is exactly what's happening. Yeah, they're going to buy it by the rumor all day. And then as soon as the Bitcoin spot ETFs get approved, they're going to sell that day on the news and then they're out. That's what's called buy the rumor. 90% of the people on the planet buy a rumor. You know what I mean? They buy it. They sell the news and they buy it. And then they sell the news. And in this situation... They sell it before they sell the news. Yeah, they're predicting here that they're going to buy the rumor and then buy the news. So it's going to be buy the rumor. And then once the ETFs get approved, it will be a buy the news event. Now I'm going to show you why. Take a look at this. Pretty awesome article actually. Yeah, I was reading a little bit about that one.  Yeah, I think it's exciting time to be in the crypto world. Because the rumor, they want the rumor to pump it up. Well, this is a time where functions can be made, right? So this is what credible crypto said on ex formerly Twitter. He says, won't be sell the news. ETFs will be buy with cash only. They can't use existing Bitcoin to put into an ETF. So they need to buy new Bitcoin. So the money that flows into these ETFs is going to go to physically buy new Bitcoin, which is going to technically take the price higher because as that money flows into the companies and these ETFs, they're going to take it, they're going to buy Bitcoin to hold on their balance sheets. And that's going to make those companies very valuable. And then it's going to protect the investor's money. And it's going to take the price of Bitcoin higher because all these ETFs are going to be buying Bitcoin all at the same time. He also then says, they can't use existing Bitcoin to put into an ETF. They need to buy new ones. The first ETF with the most liquidity will win. They all want to win and get a lot of customers. So then there will be a race to get the most customers. And that's what's going to drive the price of Bitcoin higher. What do you think about that? Do you agree with that? Absolutely. Yeah. At the end of the day, you've got to buy a new product. And that's how it goes. So with this happening, there's going to be tons of Bitcoin bought. And it's got no way to go, but those candles are just going to keep on sitting there, each other going up a little bit. And then another one's going to form, then another one, and then another one. And then eventually it's going to hit that peak where we expected it to hit by the end of next year. This is the one month chart. So you can see that Bitcoin's gone from 36,000 to 43,800 in a month. Now, if we look at the three month chart on Bitcoin, you can see a clear trend here up where Bitcoin's gone from 29,000 to 43,000. I did take it two weeks ago that it was going to be a plateau of about 44 grand and I'm right on the nose. Yeah. And then if you look at the six month chart, you can see we've gone from 25,000 to 43,000. And then if you look at the one year chart, you can see we've gone from 16,000 to 43,800. So it's got a very nice trend in the right direction if you're an investor in Bitcoin and cryptos. And this is driving the entire crypto world and fortunes are starting to become very normal. Fortunes are being made in crypto. I'm hearing about it every day and it's becoming normal, not necessarily just in Bitcoin, but more in like smaller coins. People are buying and taking risks in smaller coins and some of them are getting lucky because some are starting to pop and people are making small fortunes. I know we were speaking to one of our friends, Chris, and he mentioned that he has a friend of his that put like a few grand into a very small coin and it popped. And he made $960,000 in like a very short period of time. So this is very exciting. So I want to get into you now, Blaze. I want to ask you your first question here. So who is Blaze? Why don't you tell us a little bit about who is Blaze and, you know, your story? Well, I mean, originally Blaze was a lot of soul, you know, I got on social media because my wife passed away and I needed some kind of, you know, getaway. You know what I mean? Out of my mind. I totally understand. So, so Blaze, basically, who am I and where the name come from? We'll do that. How's that? The name. Well, no, no, no, the nickname. The nickname is another question I'm going to ask you. So I want to ask you. Okay, because basically your history and where the name came from a kind of fit together, but we'll answer that later. Okay. Yeah, because I have that later, but I want to know like your background. I came to social media to get an out to vent and do things and keep my mind off things. And, you know, I ended up running into a lot of people with the same problems I had and it became like a support system to me. And then I started liking broadcasting and I'm like, whoa, let me, you know, talk about the good and the bad because not everything's good. You know, one race, human race. That's my words. You know, I believe in equality unity. Everybody's equal, you know.  It's not because I really wanted it in the beginning rich. I learned it. And then I ended up needing it. Yeah, I mean, it's funny. Guys, you're all great. You're in the world now where you can literally just turn on your phone and then you can be in front of isn't that great people all over the world. Right. So it's a pretty interesting. You're in Vancouver and I'm in the tip of Florida.  I broadcast every day. And, you know, we intermingle and do shows like this on a weekly basis now. Right. And I'm excited about the future and I'm excited about, you know, the relationships that we have, you know, within Canada and the United States and how there's so much opportunity right now for investors and for people that are able to think outside the box. If you can learn to think outside the box and just be a little bit different. This is a little bit of a different world that we're entering where literally fortunes can be made with small amounts of money by you simply having the knowledge of learning about small stocks that could explode or small cryptos that could explode that could turn small amounts of money into large amounts of money. This is what's happening. You can also make investments into Bitcoin, which obviously I'm full disclosure, a holder of Bitcoin and Ethereum and Solana and other things, but I'm not telling you guys to buy any of these coins. I'm not telling you guys to buy any stocks. We're not telling you what to do. We're investors just like you guys, but what we want to do is we want to educate you and make you aware of everything that's happening, everything that's trending 24 hours a day, seven days a week in the market. And I love the fact that we're able to do this. And, you know, we do it together on another app called LiveMe where Blaze has, how many fans do you have on Live? Over 700,000? Nice. So I have 702,800. Yeah. So 700,000 fans on one app. So he's literally the most popular person or one of the top five most popular people on this entire app. So that's a huge amount of influence and people and community that you've been able to build and inspire and grow. And I enjoy being a part of it. So I think, you know, I've told you this before that when I go on that app, I only look for a few people and you're one of them that I only join a few broadcasts and you're one of those broadcasts that I literally look for. And when you're not live, I'm actually disappointed. I'm like, yo, where's Blaze? Why is he not live? I've actually asked you multiple times like, yo, why aren't you live? You're like, yo, yo, I'll be live in half an hour.   But you put in the work, man. When you talk about popularity, I took another baby account just to prove that my popularity is pretty good. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back. But I think I am the most popular person on that app. And by using a mini account, I could still fill a 12 beam, starting brand new. Everybody finds me even with a different name. Yeah, because you can run the best beams. And that's why I think you have great broadcasting and leadership and interview skills. And, and it's great that I think you're getting more into all the other forms of social media, so that you can take that skill set and, and grow and expand, right? So I'll ask you about this next topic here. You got me into that. Yeah, I'm glad that I did. Like I want to talk about this next topic on the screen here. So smart contract token, Solana and Avalanche search. So Solana and Avalanche two cryptocurrencies have been absolutely on fire. We've talked about it a lot. I've had them on my top 10s every month. I've been telling you guys about them and they're starting to close in on Binance and Ethereum. Do you think there's a chance that Solana or Avalanche or both could pass Binance and Ethereum or Binance or Ethereum in market cap? Okay, so basically Solana is the Ethereum and Avalanche is the Binance. So Solana is ahead of Binance in my book. Binance is not trusted when people make tokens to them. 90% of those tokens are rugpulse because Binance charges you like a fraction of the price where Ethereum charges you to open up a new token. So with that being said, Solana is going to not be like Binance. They're going to charge a certain amount or they're going to go free at some points. So that's a tricky company when it comes to beating Ethereum. I don't think they can beat Ethereum like pound for pound. But could they 5X before Ethereum double X's? Yeah, they could. I still think Ethereum is the ruler of the three of those. They have no chance in the world to pass Bitcoin. Sorry to say that about the Avalanche and Solana family. But Ethereum, they're going to have a hard time. The only one that has actually a shot is Solana. But can they pass Binance? Yes, absolutely. Wow, okay. Yes, Binance is in trouble with Solana coming. Okay. I promise you that. I'm not telling anybody to buy anything. I'm saying my opinion. And I firmly believe it because I love Solana. I mean, I re-bought Solana at 18 bucks in the beginning of the year. So let's go Solana. You know what? I own some Solana and I wish I had more.  So it's going to go up more. It's going to go up more. So I mean your small amount, this is where you started small and you're going to end up big. And you know, I don't believe Avalanche actually, like they're kind of copying Solana. They're trying to be like Solana in this case, but they won't be. If anybody falls, it'll be Avalanche, you know. But do I like that they're showing up? Yes, because there's one more that you didn't have on there. That Tron blockchain is going to look good too. Very nice. And I'm excited to hear about your top 10 today and we're going to get into that. But the next question I have for you is, why did you start trading? Because of this guy they call his screen name. He's from where you're from in Canada. From Vancouver. 2017 begging me to take my $10,000 prize I won broadcasting and turn it into 20 Bitcoin. And dude, he was like my friend, like a brother to me. But the thing is Bitcoin in 2017, people like, oh, there's shady and this and that. And I'm like, oh, when that thing did what fire god said, he said it was going to hit 50 grand rich when it was 500 bucks. Wow. Guaranteed it. He put his life on it to me. And that's when I should have said, you know, everything I got into Bitcoin, one of my best friends I grew up with, Luke started buying at 25 bucks a coin. Wow. I didn't even like, you know what is having kids and a family? You can't take from mouths to put in an investment. And at the time I couldn't take out their mouth. But 2018 rolled around. I'm like, okay, let me look into this stuff. And Bitcoin went down dramatically. I'm like, okay, 2019. I started fishing to Robin Hood and I saw dodge coin. Why is this 0.002 token on here? I took a stab at it big. And that was it for me, man. Dodge coin is the way I, you know, I started out, but I knew about investing and I should have done it two years earlier. Yeah. Listen, I'm really not happy about it, but I wish I could have told you I started 2017 and have 10,000 Bitcoin right now, you know, but it was the meme token, Bitcoin's baby token. Basically dodge coin did good because Bitcoin did good. And then people were buying dodge on their own. So if you put two or two together, it blew up. So that's what started me. Yep. All right. Well, you know what? I love hearing everybody's trading journey. And I know I've been trading your crypto since 2017 as well. So seems like that was the year that a lot of us got into crypto. And I feel like this is going to be the year 2023, seven years later, where a whole new world of investors are going to get into crypto. And I think that's going to really drive the prices higher. So I think this is a great time to really start positioning ourselves into crypto. Now, let's get into this next topic here. The SEC, which is the Securities and Exchange Commission, tells spot Bitcoin ETF hopefuls to make final changes by year end. So this is being reported by many sources. Many are saying these Bitcoin ETFs will be approved by January 10th. It's December 23rd. We're like 17 days away from Bitcoin spot ETFs being approved, which there are 13 of them being approved. And if all 13 get approved or get approved around January 10th, that means millions of dollars is going to go immediately into the price of Bitcoin because they need to start buying Bitcoin for their customers. Billions. What do you think about that, Blaze? What is that going to do to the price, buddy? Billions of dollars is going into Bitcoin. Not millions. Billions. Correct. Multi-billion. Because Bitcoin is at $800 billion. Its potential was $1.2 trillion, right? That's without ETFs. That's without BlackRock. That's without JP Morgan. That's without all these people. That's without me and you. It was $1.2 trillion. The whole entire crypto market during the bear run was only $1.2 trillion altogether. Every token together. So at one point, Bitcoin had a bigger market cap than the whole entire crypto did for the past year. So when they told them they need to make their corrections now because not everybody's getting in. That's my opinion. There's people that have loopholes. So they said that because they've given them an opportunity to go back in their work and make sure everything in the moment is correct because there's going to be eight, there's going to be five, or there's going to be nine, and there's going to be four out of the 13. That are not going. That are not going to get approved because they probably don't have it as good as the bigger companies have it. I don't think everybody gets in. If they do, I'll be surprised. But they're giving that out to give an excuse later on. We told them to revise and make sure everything's tight. They gave them a heads up, right, Rich? So now they have an opportunity to say, well, we gave them a heads up and they failed. It's a setup. Anytime you give something like that, you want to get something back later. They gave them a heads up. Let them know that people made mistakes in those applications. But I think it's a good move by the SEC, by the way. I like it. Well, there's 13 of them, right? Yeah. And what I've heard is that they are going to be approving a whole bunch all at the same time so that there's no favoritism show. So it's not fair to BlackRock if, you know, ARC gets it before them because then ARC has an ability to get more customers. So I think what they're going to do is they might approve like three or five or eight or all of them all at the same time so that everyone has a fair shot. This is kind of what I'm hoping anyway. Okay. They already have a fair shot. The application. They have a fair shot and a fair warning. Okay. So there's their fair shot. So whoever they decide got their fair chance in accomplishing it. BlackRock is getting in. No matter what. Well, yeah, BlackRock is getting it for sure. I think ARC, which is how people should start thinking. People should start thinking. BlackRock is king. You think if they're going to approve BlackRock is going to get hit. So they're going to hit it. So focus on BlackRock.  Forget about them. For real. That's it. I really honestly go with successes. They ain't not one company out there that's holding the type of money BlackRock is holding. After they get their hands on Bitcoin, they're going to be holding enough money to buy whole countries. Yeah, I like that. And everybody is going to be happy because. Blaze. Yep. So my next question for you is. Yeah, I can hear you. What's your scariest moment as an investor? Anything that went wrong. Like an investment that went wrong. Or maybe just getting into crypto the first time. Make an investment that just, you know, got, got you nervous. You know what, bro? It was the point when Sheba went to five, zero, six, zero. No, it was five zeros and a three, four. And then it crashed hard. And I had a lot of it. And I had the faith in it. And the thing came back. And it hit four zeros and an eight. I mean, mega money made that. That was originally my scariest moment. But remember what I told you when a good friend gives me advice and I went away from it. And I had a childhood friend and a new friend. That was like a brother to me with Bitcoin. Right. Yeah. And investments. My scariest moments when Chris told me. You should get a couple of paintings. And it was only $240 at the time. I didn't listen. I didn't listen for sure. So every moment to me is me. Considering you guys, my closest friends, right? Like the other guys. Yeah. Once again, I didn't put my mind into the focus of it. Like a show. I felt it, but I wasn't ready for it. But that was scary of the fact that, look, this guy. His family's gold, man. What? Yeah. Stupid. You know what I mean? Come on.  And I mean. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's other things I like to invest in something like way down. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, we're able to get into, we're able to get into some of those pandas, but I mean, I don't think, I know some of us got into this. I got a couple. It's not the project itself, Rich. You said the scariest moment in investing. Yeah. It's the project. It's that I didn't hear my friend out. Yeah. You didn't listen. Listen to 100% because I should have bought 40 or 50 of them at that price. Yeah, I understand. Look, it ain't going to happen again. That's all I got to say. Yeah. Well, that was scary. It was scary. That's how we learn, right? That's how we learn. I always tell myself as an investor, whenever something goes wrong, it's like, how do I learn? I learn from these tough moments because those tough moments, they build something inside of you so that the next time you see that situation, you're like, okay, I've been through this before. This is how I have to navigate it. And even like two other crypto bull runs that I've been through, this is the third time and it's the most I'm confident in it because it's my third time seeing it. The first time was like, whoa, okay, was that just luck? The second time was like, I didn't believe it. And then it happened and I was like, oh my God, it happened in my face and I had two Bitcoin and I sold a 10,000 and now they're at 69,000. And it really hurt. And then this time it's like, okay, I'm ready for this. Like this time I'm ready. Like I know this is coming. I have no doubt in my mind I'm going to benefit from this. I'm not missing this. You know, so it's completely changed from the first time being, not really knowing anything and just kind of being there, watching it happen to the second time, not expecting that it would actually happen again. And then it did kind of doubting it, like owning it and still believing in it, but not enough where I wanted to hold it. I would sell it, you know, because I didn't think it was going to make that type of move to 69. And it did. So that's why now it's like, I truly believe it's going to at least a hundred. I didn't think I felt when I hit 69, I'm like, oh, what did Joel tell me? Like, he guaranteed me, bro. No, I know. The kid was in my beam, bro. And look me in my eyes, bro. Wow. I'm your friend. Listen to me. That scares me. Chris is my friend. Let's get into this. Let's get into this next topic. Fox business this week says firms feel confident that the SEC will approve the spot Bitcoin ETFs after January 8th. So despite previous rejections and delays, financial firms anticipate a favorable decision from the SEC following discussions slated for this January. Do you think there's anything that could go wrong here at this point? It seems like everything is saying this is going to happen. Okay. Well, can anything go wrong here? You know what? A lot of people are fans of Fox, but they didn't really stand me wrong all the time. Look, Fox, when they talk like that, they get information. They pay for it. Okay. Yeah. Like they want to make sure that they're right about this, right? Right. They want to be the first ones to say it. I think they paid pretty penny to find out what's going on. I'm not accusing anybody of really that. I'm just saying that's my, using my own imagination or my own phrase of how I feel about what happened when Fox says something like that is money. I don't think anything is going to go wrong with this simply because the SEC is in jeopardy of being completely stripped apart and redone. And if you screw black rock over on this, you're probably all going to be finding new jobs. Yeah. And you know, if Trump comes in there, he's going to clean the house. That's exactly Trump's boys, but think about it. He's going to be cleaning house anyways. Trump's got a lot of money in black rock, trust me. Oh, I bet. Black rock is an amazing stock too. Right. Here wants them to have Bitcoin. He wants to strip the SEC down. Come on. This is giving excuses.  We're starting over. And he can do it. The president of the United States can do that. Blaze, what's your most exciting moment? When my two sons were born. As an investor. That was an investment, a family, you know, I invested into a family and my two sons were born. That was my most exciting outside of making money investment, but I have to say that I'm a dad. You know that. That's great. My most exciting moments were winning the keynote ticket for four grand and putting it on dodge and watching it on my birthday, May 7th, start going to the moon. Believe it. Could not. Bro, not even a penny. Okay. Not even a penny per share. Turn into 77 cents per share. You know, per token. Wow. Like my heart was going like that. You don't even understand. I've never seen that much profit generated that quick off a short investment. Wow. It was, it was the most amazing May of my life. Well, hey, listen, man, those are the, those as an investor, those are the things we dream of. Right. Like getting into an investment and just skyrockets. It's like one of the best things ever. Bitcoin is more of like a steady growth, which is nice. But it would be nice to get into something like you've been involved in like Shiba Inu where you get an early or doge where you get an early and they just absolutely go up like. Shiba was a given. I expected that with Shiba to be honest with you. And I told, I was pimping it out. I didn't even care. I told everybody in them mother to buy it. I did broadcast. I did 10 broadcasts a week on it. Nonstop telling people, dude, it's the dodge killer. You need to get involved by $10 worth. And it will do somebody bought sent $17 worth and it became a triple millionaire. So that's a different excitement. The excitement is coming from like not believing to actually trying it like a guy that never seen a ghost before and he rags on it and then the ghost shows up. He's like, I'm a believer now. You know what I mean? Yeah. Basically what happened to me. 100%. No, I totally get it. So this is my next topic here. So FTX, where Sam Begman Freed has now, you know, most likely is going to jail for losing billions of dollars of customers money and miss handling funds. They plan to refund 90% of recovered assets. But they're saying that doesn't add up to 90% of customers losses. I don't understand their math. Exactly. He was back to the rich guy. Never mind the poor guy. That's what it means. Yeah. They're going to pay back the rich guys first, the people that are the first money in first money out people first. Tom Brady and all them clowns. And then the people, the small people that have the thousand dollars, the $10,000, the $100,000, the million dollars, the $10 million accounts, they're going to get paid last. That's always how it works. Well, that's the 10% that ain't get paid. In a court settlement, that's how it works. They pay all the, what they would call higher level holders on the inside. They call insiders in the company first. Then they pay all the little people. Who typically have less invested in the company. I did a little math on this while I was bored reading the article. So 90%, which won't cover 90% of the investors, right? So anybody who put $1,000 or under, you're the 5% out. You're gone. You ain't getting nothing. Anybody who put $5,000 or under, you're probably not getting anything either. But anybody over that $5,000 mark is getting something back. And most of them are businesses. So the little man, and I don't want to get you guys away from crypto, because if you fail something and you've got a gut, do it. This is like a freak happening. In exchange, just don't crawl up to number two on the planet behind Binance, ready to take over and then fall off the map in one day. It was obviously a young guy in charge and he's going to jail for it. And it's showing that there's kind of regulations with it, right? The kind of is governance because in the end, the government took over and put people in jail, right? 100%. So this leads me to my next question. That's an example with Sam. If somebody does it again, you're going to be in the same place with them. So that leads me to my next question, please. So this is the question where we get into the top 10 picks for 2024. So what would you say are your top 10 picks for 2024?  All right, let's hope they're going to be good ones. Okay. Number one. That's right there. Solana. Solana's number one. Solana's number one. Solana's number one because I do, and it's funny how you asked those questions about it. And this was already written down yesterday when you were talking to me, right? So here's the problem. You've got Ethereum, Binance, making big money, right? Big money off tokens being paid, right? Guess what? Solana's got a better plan. They're my number one site. And they took over Ordinals at number two because Ordinals is through Bitcoin, okay? Anything through Bitcoin, Rich, is what was that gold coin you got there, okay? So anything through Bitcoin is gold, okay? The only reason why I took Solana and put it above Ordinals is because Solana is going to have a lot more people creating tokens and whatnot because it's going to be a lot cheaper, you know what I mean? All right, so we go to number three. It's not a crypto. It's Tesla. Oh. I really love Tesla. And I will ride with Tesla until Elon Musk says he's done. Number four. I like it. Hold on. Hold on. So I'll write this down. So number one. Yeah. Wait a second. I want to write these down. I want to write these down. Yep. Okay. So number one, you got Solana. Number two. Sorry. Number two was what? Ordinals. Ordinals. Ordinals. Ordinals, guys. O-R-D-I. Solana's SOL. Ordinals is O-R-D-I. That's number two. Tesla is number three. T-S-L-A is that stock symbol. And I love Tesla as a stock. So I love your three picks. Yeah, Tesla. I want to take a lot of my money I make. I want to take a lot of money I make up a crypto and put it on Tesla just for you. My end game. Tesla. You heard it here first. Okay. I'm going to go with Cardano. Cardano is number four. Cardano. ADA. Cardano. ADA symbol. Cardano. Buddy, Chris said it earlier in the beam today. You were talking about charts are important. Nash needs to figure out charts. And Rich is a master at charts. I love when Rich puts up the charts. Free information. Damn good friend right there, guys. When he talks, listen. Chris came out with, I don't look at graphs and this and that. And Cardano was the one that I never looked at in graphs or anything or stats or nothing. It's in my gut. It's been in my gut for a while. And I got to stick with it. I got it. Because if I back off and going against a person, I want to be in investing in crypto, right? So it's a good call. I like your attitude. I like your first four clicks. And then I'm making the obvious. And I'm going to put them in the middle. Okay.  That's not going to happen. But in the middle at five and six, it's Ethereum and Bitcoin. No, why? Okay. So Ethereum is number five. Oh, yeah. They're not going to know where. Ethereum is your number five and you should have number six. Right. Out of respect, I put them on the list, but nobody needs to study about Bitcoin in Ethereum. You know what I mean? It's there. It's proven itself. They're the two heavyweights. They've proven themselves. They've been there in every single bull market. They've done well in every single bull market. They've done well this year. We know that they're going to continue to do well next year. And they were after that. So yeah, I agree with you. I think that they need to. I kind of split my top 10 into two groups, A and B. So it would be top 10 would be number five would be Ethereum closing out the first bracket. And then Bitcoin would be number six because they're number one in the next bracket. You cannot deny Bitcoin's value in everybody's. I think everybody should. I think everybody should. Right. And everybody's child. Bitcoin should be in your top three. The reason why it's not my top three is because I need to pick some as a co-host that is different than the obvious. Okay. In my opinion, because I'm not going to tell you what you already know Bitcoin in Ethereum, but I can't not leave them off the list. I can't leave them off the list because then I wouldn't sound like I know what I'm doing. All right. Number seven. One of my favorites. It's a crow. CRO. Crypto.com's native token. Yeah. It's an exchange people. Listen, how many exchanges out there have skyrocketed. In the top 10 exchanges, their values have gone up. Right. CRO is a top exchange value that 10 cents a share. Don't be the person 10 years from now saying, oh my God, look what it did. I don't want to hear it. Look, for 10 cents a share, everybody should have a little bit of that.  Well, your portfolio. Here's down. And number eight. I think bonk, man. I think I really think this ball. Whoa. Yeah. You know, all my picks are based off a different idea. Like bonk was the third highest meme token, right? Behind Shibra and Dodge, right? Yeah. That's big shoes to fill. That's some big shoes. Like I'm looking at my list of like, how do I not have bonk in there? Bonk. So it'd be number eight. Number eight, simply because popularity, the group, you know, the community is huge. And then it's done it. It's number three men on the memes. Like they cracked $2 billion at one point. You got to give them credit, right? Number nine. Yeah, they've done very well. Is it okay if I got a tie? All right. Sure. I'm going on a limb. We're going to go back to the ghost. We're going to go back to Pepe and my ladies. And we're going to play with those a little bit. And Nicola and I make some free money because they're making people money right now. And they actually just went up like 16, 17% the other day.  The community will keep these tokens going because simply because everybody wants to beat Chiba or Dodge. So communities get together, they get strong.  And they pull in together like the Chiba community. And boom, let's go. And number 10, Rich. But not least is karate combat karate combat. Okay. So number nine, you had two of them. Okay. Yeah. Number nine, I split them. It's tied 100% tight. But number 10 is karate combat. Hands down. The last one on the list because it's going to take a little while, but the utility that backs them is incredible. I believe in it. And it's another big gut for me in a community thing. Look at all those guys, man. They're going to be getting paid. So I got to go with karate combat. Unfortunately, I didn't get to, you know, put one of the tokens in there because it really hasn't shown me enough to put on my top 10. But a close tent will end it with rainy. No information. Okay. Well, you know what? I like your top 10. I think there's some quality there. You got quality names. You got some smaller names. You got some riskier stuff. You also got some safe stuff. And then you've got some stuff that's really hot. So I think you got a good list there. And I think that there's going to be some good returns on those investments. I must remind everyone that Rich TV Live is strictly for information and education purposes. Please don't immediately go and buy all of Blaze or my picks. Okay. Make your own picks. These are my research. Own due diligence. Exactly. And, and, and buy something because you believe in it because you've done the research because you believe it's going to be a success. And hopefully you can have your own success during this Bitcoin and crypto. And even right now starting to become an NFT bull market and the stock market to be quite frank is in a bull market. We're at an everything bull market essentially. Golds around all time highs. Bitcoin's doing very well. Crypto's are doing very well. Stock markets around all time highs. S&P 500. Dow Jones trading around all time highs. NASDAQ 100 around all time highs. So it's been a tough year in some areas, but it's also been really good in others. Now I want to get into this next topic here. So this is the next topic. This is about Doquan. So Montenegro and court overturns decision to extradite Terra Doquan to the United States. Do you think that that's right? That they should just stop him from being extradited to the United States after he robbed so many people? You think about that? Who stopped his extradition? Montenegro. He's living, he disappeared to Montenegro. They were doing a ruling and they decided they're not going to extradite him. The Terra Luna previous CEO back to Amer. Do you think that's right? What they're doing, protecting him essentially? Or do you think they should extradite him to Amer? What do you think?  He paid them. They're listening to their boss right now. Of course, they're doing the right thing. The same thing happened with San Bernardino Freed and then eventually the Bahamas gave him up, right? Yeah, this is different though. These people got paid a lot of money. They don't care about the United States. We don't do nothing for them. They don't care. But it ain't going to stop one of these millionaires and billionaires that got burned from sending somebody down there to snipe them out somewhere or the government just to go in and kidnap them and take them themselves. And we're not afraid of them going to war with us, you know? So eventually, yeah, we're going to bully them and we're going to take them anyways. So don't worry about it. Where do you see the markets going in the next year? Okay, like this. And then like that. And then like that. Bro. And when you say that, are you talking about the crypto world or are you talking about stocks or both? I'm talking about both. Okay, so you're going to have the stock market above crypto and then crypto going above the stock market getting hot. And they're going to keep switching off simply because we can do it. We can invest in whatever we want because things are going to get better. You know what I mean? So I think it's just, they're both going up the stairs together. You know what I mean? So when you go upstairs, what does that mean? It goes up positive. We're going in the green with both ends. New change, new president coming. Dude, we already went through our problems. We're going to get a break finally. Yeah, we need it. We need it. A lot of science is going to be green too on both ends. You know, the S&P as well. I mean, come on, bro. Yeah, I hear it. Hit some numbers at one point.  So the year is finishing off good. And we got Christmas. Everybody buying Christmas presents. Everybody buying stocks and crypto for their gifts. You know, things are going up. Yeah. It's a Christmas rally. It's the highest point in years, right? It's a Christmas rally. So we're having a Christmas rally. And then a new rally. The new year. Yeah. And we still have next week. So hopefully that continues. Now, I want to go into my next question here. New EU sanctions package. Proclude Russians from owning crypto companies. Do you think that that's right? That they should allow, that they should not be allowing Russians to own crypto companies. Do you think that that's right? What Europe's doing? European Union don't want to allow Russia to buy crypto. Russians from owning crypto companies. So Russian people specifically from investing into crypto. No, I don't know how they're able to stop. It's not right. It's not right, bro. At the end of the day, pay your dues for all the rules. Right. Be a good citizen and have freedom. Have your rights. And I don't think anybody's rights should be taken away. Period.  So no, we need Russia. In investing world. We do. We need all the bigs in it. We need everybody in there.  Okay. But let me tell you, bro, it's not a good idea. That's kind of. I just don't think it's right now. No, absolutely not. I stick to my USA. Well, you know, I want this leads me to my next question. Where did you come up with the nickname blaze? I gave it to my son Corbin. I gave it to him as his middle name. And I was cross between calling him blaze or Corbin. Because I felt like he was just going to be this blaze type. Like on fire, ready to run and just be, you know, tough. And I ended up swapping it around. And then one day I opened up the live me app. And there was the name already in there. It was blaze type in West. My six year old actually signed up and put his and his middle name there. So I got in the way of me and Corbin loved it. So I kept blaze. Wow. Okay. See, I didn't even know that. So blaze himself is the creator. Wow.  Look at that. Like that's amazing. I'm like, hmm. That's an amazing story. Yep. So blaze is, is my it's created. It was created for my son first and then he created my tag. He gave it back to me. Wow. Unique. That's an amazing story. So my next topic here is why Trump was disqualified from Colorado primary ballot and what it means. So if you've been watching this, it's disqualified and moved from the Colorado primary ballot. And now they are saying that others, other states may follow. What do you think about this? Do you think it's right that they should be removing Trump from the ballot in Colorado? What do you think about this? Okay. So was it the Democrats and the Republicans both agreeing on this? I believe the vote was four to three. And I don't know exactly who voted. Okay. So there was three people that voted for Trump, right? Correct. And mysteriously the rubber, the rubber match was taken from me lost, right? Well, they're in the wrong country. These Colorado representatives to see the United States of America. Look, if Trump can't gain votes, then his opponent can't. Okay. So that's how I'm going to look at it because Trump's going to fire back and say, if I can't get votes, he ain't. And then another thing is it's only borrowed votes, bro, because the states that are wanting to keep him off the ballot are kind of going to lose votes for their people they want to elect because if it goes to the fair rights where if Trump can't get them, then nobody else can, right? Then his opponent's going to lose a state that they would have won because the state was against them anyway. They're going to be doing this to be distracting us again.   Yeah. I just find it ridiculous. He's got lawyers. He's got money. He's got rights. That's all I can say.  You're not even getting him. Well, you've got to remove everybody off the ballot, bro. You can't just remove. We elect him. He's a candidate. You can't take him off the ballot because it's what we do now. There's only four out of seven that said, no, what about the other millions of people that live in the state, that like Trump? They have a say too. 100%. Now you're not giving it an equal in a fair voting. Oh, we're going to. Oh, so they got caught cheating and throwing votes away. Now they come up with another way to cheat and just throw it in your face and say, we're going to cheat anyways. Right in our face. Right in our face, bro. That's what he's saying. We're cheating. In the end, they're costing their, their, the person they want to be the president votes, they're costing them votes too, because if you don't want one person on the ballot, you ain't doing balancing. That's how I look at it. So Blaze, we've only got a few minutes left, a couple more questions. The last question I have for you personally. Why did you get involved into social media? I got involved into social media to kind of refer it back to, uh, where, where did I come from? Is because simply because it was a therapy for me. I know you mentioned it a few times. So therapy became hobby. And the hobby became habit and habit became success, you know? Did you ever see yourself getting into broadcasting when you were younger? Was ever something that you wanted to do? Did you ever see yourself getting into like film or anything like that? Was it ever something you're interested in? I was kind of shy when I was younger, but I cracked, when I cracked out of it, man, yeah, I could be the lead singer on stage, frontman of a band, drama. You want me on a podium? Let's go. Yeah, I'm ready for it. I want the world to hear me. Because I do think I'm a smart guy. I do think I have a lot of good ideas and great intentions. And I've been around for a while. So was it a passion? Yeah, it was, you know, when we lip synced songs and videotaped it with the first video camera ever came out when I was a teenager, right? I was the lead singer. I was Axel Rose. I was doing Welcome to the Jungle, you know? So yeah, I had it in me my whole life. And I couldn't believe to actually put a cell phone in your hand and I could do all this stuff. Like we're doing right now. It's incredible. Yeah, it's pretty crazy how sometimes different roads take you to different places. Sometimes you're not even anticipating where it's going to take you.  Now I want to talk about this a little bit here. So the S&P 500 sees its biggest ETF inflow ever. Stock markets at all time highs. Things have been popping in crypto. Golds around all time highs. There's a lot of money flowing into the markets right now. What do you think about that? You think that this can continue into next year? Do you think that the stock market can continue to go higher despite the fact that we just had all-time highs in the Dow Jones? We just hit all-time highs in the S&P 500. We hit all-time highs in the Nasdaq 100. Is this going to continue into next year? Yeah, it's only beginning. I think that companies are going to get stronger.  And everybody reads the paper and sees people making money off investing during this scared time. People are scared this whole time and they're making money, right? Yes, scared money doesn't make money, right? Yeah, money doesn't make money. But now when you've got some companies, you've got ETFs, you've got Bitcoin halving, New President of the United States should be elected if they count the votes right. You know, with all that together, yeah, some P500 is going to skyrocket, which is going to boost a couple great companies that, you know, we know, you know. 100% and we'll be here all the time, every single week, week after week, all of next year to talk about it and to share what's happening in the market and I'm really excited to continue to do this with you, Blaze. We've been doing it now for quite some time. This is our 31st show, The Bull and Bear Show. It's our one-on-one with Blaze. I want to wish everyone that is watching A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.  I really want to wish everyone a prosperous 2024. We're going to be here every step of the way giving you the updates on the hottest stocks, hottest crypto, all the different stocks that are making moves, everything that's happening in the world of finance. We're going to talk about stocks, cryptos, NFTs, all of next year.  Christmas Eve is coming tomorrow. New Year's is coming. New Year's Eve is coming. So very exciting times. I really want to wish everyone a really safe holidays as well. Please don't drink and drive and make sure that you are doing the right things and you're not letting your friends and family drink and drive either. That's what Ubers are for. Get in an Uber. I took Ubers yesterday. Had a great time with my friends. Everyone was taking Ubers. Nobody has to worry about drinking and driving. So do things the right way and protect yourselves first and foremost, right? Because your health is your wealth. Blaze, anything you want to say before we say goodbye, my friend, this will be, I think this is, I may have one more show next week. I think we have a group show before it's over. Yeah, for the rest of the year. So I'll have one more show before the end of the year. This is the last one on one that we're going to have this year. And the second last show we're going to have this year. Anything you want to share with anyone that's watching before we say goodbye? Hey, you know, basically what you said, I backed up a thousand percent. Everybody be safe. Look, no drinking and driving. No getting stoned and driving. None of that. Look, go on social media like we do. People sit in a beam. They potty together in a beam. Everybody's at home. They're safe. Someone wants to go out and get food. We all talk them out of it. He ain't drinking and driving. It's like we're saving lives. So use social media as a power for the holiday.  I don't know if we should be saying that, but at the end of the day, free advertisement, but to save lives, I don't care. I'll advertise anything like that. Just make sure you call a cab, call a friend, or you always have that group designated driver. Okay. Somebody that don't want to drink that night that is willing to pick everybody up. Maybe one or two people. Devise the plan, potty hide, have a good time, but stay safe. You know what I mean? And please, we're looking at the price of Bitcoin right now. Where do you think we're going to see Bitcoin next year, putting you on the spot before we say goodbye? Well, after Warren Buffett decides to finally buy into it with the hundreds of millions he's making off his dividends. You know, I think we're going to go through the roof because he's probably going to finally crack. You think so? Yeah, I think so. Bro, he just made a billion dollars off of dividends. Well, hey listen man, from your lips to God's ears, I don't know if I can buy it because he hates Bitcoin, so I don't know if I can believe it, but hey, you know what, stranger things have happened and anything is possible in this world.  So I'm just saying we still got Elon. We still got a lot of other things. FTX is going to pay back 90%, which is going to bring back a lot more trust to bigger investors. That's why they're worried about paying the bigger investors first. Sorry guys, but sure. So with that happening, if they can get back some of that money, guys look, we got the having happening. That's obvious and we got the ETFs coming. Look, where's Bitcoin going? Let me get a 3X till the end of next year. I said, you know, a high number last week, maybe the week before about 100K. I think it's, I think you could hit that 150 mark. Woo, 150, let's go. I thought 100, but 150, I'll take 150. Yeah, I was 90 about a week ago, and then I started reading more, more news like, that I usually don't read and I kind of influenced my idea a little bit and it brought me back to my first prediction. I did over the summer with you the end of the summer. Do you think it went 50? Yeah, it was about 75, but 90, but it only makes sense to triple up, you know? Amen, I'll take it. I said Bitcoin will do it two and a half times last week and I said Ethereum will do it three, but I think Ethereum will go maybe three. I think they're both going to go neck and neck and we already know Bitcoin does good, Ethereum does good. So yeah, salute to Bitcoin. Always have it in your top 10, your own personal top 10. When you're in a position like me today, I had to make two brackets, put it in the middle, Bitcoin all the way. It's an end game for people. I mean, it's proven itself. So yeah, it's going up. Boom. And full disclosure, I own Bitcoin in Ethereum and other coins as well that we've talked about today, not telling anyone to buy it. Blaze and I are not licensed advisors, okay? We're investors just like you guys and we hope everyone has a fantastic weekend, fantastic holidays. Thank you for watching on your holidays, wherever you are watching. If you didn't watch it live, we really appreciate if you watch the recorded video. We appreciate that as well. We appreciate your likes, your comments and we really appreciate if you subscribe and follow us on social media. And I'm also going to have a link to Blaze's direct YouTube channel in the description of this video. So go and follow Blaze. Thank you for watching. I'm your host of the most. Your boy, Rich from Rich TV. If you're not winning, probably not watching, bringing the winners, CEO interviews, breaking news, trending topics, and we bring them to you first. Thank you for watching, everybody. Blaze, thank you for joining us today, buddy. I don't know if you saw that weird godly light behind me, but that was odd. Watch that back. It was like a flash behind me, bro. It was really, you've got to see what I did. God bless. Happy holidays, everybody. Peace, bless. See you soon, buddy. Cheers.


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on May 21 he was confident that Kiev would receive supplies of F-16 fighter jets from the West to help repel Russia's full-scale invasion of his country. We will have the planes. I can't say for now how many, it's not a secret. I don't know this myself, he told a news conference at the Group of Seven Summit in Hiroshima, Japan. He also played down the fact he did not meet Brazilian President Lula de Silva on the sidelines of the summit and said it was likely because of scheduling. Asked if he was disappointed the meeting did not happen, he told a news conference he thought it was more of a disappointment for the Brazilian leader. I think it disappointed him, he said, smirking and drawing laughs from reporters. Zelensky also commented on Kiev's peace formula, saying it had the potential to prevent future wars by stopping aggressors from launching them.


Hello. I've dropped the meeting notes into the chat area. I want to add your name and any items. We'll get started at five after bill. Did you see how many folks we had on the scene of working group? I'm sorry on the tech call. It was about 18 or 19. Yeah, cool. I think on that orchestra, what was presented. It'd be interesting to hear some of the specific or maybe break down some of the sections and have it as smaller topics. There may be or like what are that maybe the use cases what are use cases that they've been targeting. Not directly the tool, but what are they trying to do and that could maybe roll into the scene of working group. Hello folks, we're going to get started at five after just a couple of minutes and the meeting notes are in the zoom chat. You can add your name and any agenda items. All right. Does anyone have any topics they'd like to add that we don't already have on the agenda. I guess for those that are new to this call this is the CNF working group the cloud network function working group. We have eight every week at 1600 GTC this call. There's a gap repo for the working group, as well as a mailing list and select channel. We have a few items from last week that were on the agenda. I don't know if Frederick on the call if he's not then I bumped this one because it was a topic that he had added before. Security related. I'm not saying Frederick to the end is and I'm here didn't look like it. All right, so I'm going to bump that one as well. It's a good question and performance. Yeah, I might add a couple of notes on that actually. Yeah, you want to just do a right on that one and then then it'll come come up when it comes around next which should work. That one's good enough. Well, good enough. I think that one could would be good as a discussion item on the discussion board. So for those that don't know, or having seen on get maybe we have a discussion area that we've been using. And I think he and that performance related one, we could have some stuff there as well. A quick technical question. If is there a way to share Google documents with everybody on the list. Is there like a Google group list or something for for all of us or I guess there's a mailing list. Sorry, Bill go ahead. Yeah, there's a mailing list, but obviously that link would then be open to everyone is there's the reason why you'd want it to be shared with only the people on the mailing list and not, I guess, generally. No, that's a good point. I could probably share it generally. That's, that's correct. All of our documents are globally open. Yeah, that's probably the easiest option then and then just send it on the mailing list. Yeah, that's a good idea. Thanks. I know you haven't seen it tell I know there's a few companies that even if you share something and make it anybody with the link can see it. There are a few that don't allow it. I think Verizon might be one. So you may get request from those folks saying, can you please share. And you'll respond and say please use another account. I think you have to be careful when you click share and on Google Drive, you can't check that it's not just for your company and that it is global. And if you're not allowed to make it global well can always use your non work Gmail account if you have So any other topics before we jump into, we got some PRs that we want to look at Frederick message me so he may come in and talk about this security topic here in a bit if you can get on, but are there any other topics that folks would like to add. So we have a this a state in the pull request this is a use case that Simon from matrix was had submitted. And I think he worked on that with you Oliver. And not saying, Oh, there's Simon. Hey, Simon. It'd be nice to get this one through. I think the main questions or comments about this right now were about making some of the use case statements to be either more general or to explicitly say when memory is being used it's It was one, I guess one path versus the path. That was really the only thing and I know you talked about this a little bit Simon several weeks ago. So I don't know if you've gone back on this. But does anyone else had a chance to look at this stateful CNF use case. I'm going to bring it like this, maybe. Yeah, I haven't actually had a chance to go back to to it to address the PR comments but I will put on my to do this for this week. Hey book. Hello. All right. So do you have a real short Simon. Overview for you can say what this is for folks who may not have seen it and they can come check it out. Yeah, this is a use case talking about how a native function needs to maintain state and different types of state that it might mean to need to maintain the specific use case is about the five GCH and scenario where subscribers are interacting with a charging system. That's I guess that's the short short version. And the summary is basically that CNF needs that you know when it's maintaining state should continue to follow cloud native principles and try to be loosely coupled with the hardware on which it's running. I have a question in a in a current practice. What is typically used for as a persistent storage or persistent volume to persist that state. So in our implementation, we have a shared storage of what we call fast storage which is basically an SSD running behind an NFS server. And we use EFS or that in like an EKS kind of environment. That's the persisted to disk storage. And it's used for things like checkpoints and backups. The actual data is all stored in memory. But this this use case is looking at the perspective of persistent storage related to state statefulness. Well, I guess that's where that's where the confusion comes from because when we talk about state we're talking about state that is held in memory for low latency reasons. Yeah, which for the charging systems is quite understandable. So, and in the implementation of this, as I said we we write to shared storage as a fallback DR kind of scenario and for like offline synchronization. Whereas all online serial synchronization and the actual session state and long held state like balances and things like that are held in memory on all systems. And this means like making the such a network function stateful when we look at the fast in memory storage. It means that at the points of either node draining or shifting rescheduling that the pods they would need to act as a stateful set or if they're not as a stateful set they would need to have a mechanism to to to consume or to empty this or to migrate this information that is in memory to another node. Yeah, or flush it to the to the persistent storage and then start a new. Yeah, so they are managed as a Kubernetes stateful set. And there is like an operator that sits on top of it that manages. So, in addition to like the standard Kubernetes bustering. So, you know, we're using clustering technology which we use to do like online synchronization.  Does that answer your question. So it gives the insight. Now trying to, but I need to to read that completely I read it very quickly. And it was maybe two weeks ago. So I need to to go thoroughly because now from that point I'm just thinking how to generalize it for the use case. I would normally say from the infrastructure perspective. You got no control over the nodes, you can use the node that you are allocated to as a as a workload at the given point in time and you will be moved out of that node by Kubernetes mechanisms. Which is still true in a stateful and especially with these kind of high performance stateful scenarios or any stateless scenarios that are high performance. We, for the implementation we actually taint certain nodes to make some exclusive to our use. And if that workload cannot run on those nodes then other nodes would need to be brought up untainted so that workload can be moved across. But that would have to be all controlled. It's the problem with these kind of stateful scenarios is that it's highly dependent on being available and it's not like a stateless workload that can be easily moved across and migrated between nodes in a Kubernetes cluster. It's like any database in Kubernetes at the end. So the day this is basically what it is it's an it's an on, you know, an in memory database that's, you know, got high performance low latency. So, yeah, it has that same. So I guess this could be written from the perspective of if you were to stand up. In the memory database in Kubernetes, what challenges would you have to think about and these are the same challenges that I've tried to document here. We have our opinionated setup, which is relying on external or flash NVMe storage, which is behaving very close to the in terms of performance to run but it's not probably something for a best practice. And you're hard coding. But that is not running exclusively within Kubernetes. You're saying that's an NVMe that is. It is, we use the flash arrays that are sitting in the same rec or in the recs where we have the nodes. And they are all connected with the 100 gig ice Kazi and soon to be NVMe over fiber to that storage but it's not exclusively storage for one cluster it's shared between number of clusters though it's a state of the art highly performance storage system. So I would call that a bare metal cloud, where you're basically hosting a private cloud on your nodes, and then you get to control how those nodes are configured. Which is, you know, we have customers that do that, but we also have customers that use like EPS public cloud. And so we didn't get as much control over the hardware that you are. So, this is interesting just to add a point I said last meeting that I'm working on a, on a document about the use of Kubernetes operators with with our use cases. It's become quite long at this point it's five pages long. Sorry, it'll take some time it's a big discussion but one of the things I'm really examining is operators are you are useful in cases where you need to manage state. That's not non ephemeral right because one of the problems or challenges I would say with with the using clouds generally is that you think of your resources as being ephemeral. That is Kubernetes can destroy them and create them and supposedly your application can continue working you know as long as they're recreated. But things like databases. I mean if you if you look at the use cases of Kubernetes operators 90% of the Kubernetes operators are database cluster managers. And it has to do exactly with that you need you need something external to to the resource itself in order to manage that resource and make sure that the clusters managed according to its rules right because each. state has its own specific rules specific cluster management rules. And that's knowledge that Kubernetes doesn't naturally have that's something that you need to encode for example by using an operator. And that's something that would be interesting there as well is. And so, many people when they work with operators, they, they, they're taking the assumption that they'll always have a clean shutdown, but we know this is not all we know this is not true and in with the operators it would also be good to tie in what how an operator can help you when you have something bad happening your system like you have some state that the state disappears is the operator able to help you. How can the operator help you recover into into a good state as well ensuring that you get the context back or the state back or rebuild or or so on as part of the process. An operator can't do anything that a human couldn't do right so it's just an automated human but if that possibility is there for example migrating databases freezing them. You know, in certain kind of cluster arrangements you have one one node that's a writer node and the other nodes are reader nodes say MongoDB. You have some sort of election management system so these things Kubernetes has no idea about them right this is something that you need to add to the system to make it a viable. For example, Kuvert for virtual machines has you know one of the requirements for virtual machines which doesn't exist for containers is that they can be frozen and they can be migrated for example to another cluster as is right with all their Ram and memory and everything so these are future features that Kuvert has because it considers the virtual machines to be stateful and ways that containers aren't. We also beside databases. We also noticed for a telco applications in, for example, if you have a user playing functions UPF. So we work with with one of the vendors and the challenge there is that you have a this UPF pods or containers that are holding customer sessions, not for charging purposes but for maintaining the connection. And when this pod goes, these sessions would be either interrupted, or they need to be migrated so they have a operator that sits on top of these UPF pods and kind of proactively replicates all the sessions or make a cash on all other nodes at any given point in time if that node or pod fails. The other standing that gets elected to master or leader or whatever would know how to continue forwarding the packets. So it's also controlled by the by the operators that are custom made for that purpose. Well, as we're talking about operators. My view is that operators really shouldn't be getting too deep into the secondary cluster management. And maybe that's the wrong viewpoint but I, my feeling is that an operator really is just there to help Kubernetes understand the particular management requirements for the pods. And feel like that is the right place to put all of the like this secondary cluster synchronization logic. In this case it's not cluster synchronization it's all on the application level so cluster is more or less moving independently. The cluster decides that the node where that specific type of pod is running is going to be drained and needs to go out of the out of the pool and be replaced with another one. The application needs to handle it and it handles it with the operator as a mechanism who is aware of that event could happen and proactively making sure that application would continue working uninterrupted. So the operator reacts to the event of this node is going to be drained and triggers something that you know application specific logic that does the migration of that. I'm not 100% sure but I think it reacts on the on the on the notion. My master UPF pod is getting kicked out so I need to restart the mechanism to select one of my remaining pods as a masters and create the new one.  Not 100% sure is it on which signals it reacts but at the end this business logic or this operational logic is built into that operator and it handles that event. But on the application level only doesn't coordinate with the infrastructure, anything. Yeah, okay. Just to point out Simon I think one thing I'm trying to distinguish in my document that I'm working on is. There's a big mess in terminology in terms of operators and custom controllers and things like that but I do talk about something called a pure operator. Which is in the, if anybody has a background in functional languages can guess what I mean but but but these kind of pure operators don't have side effects and indeed do what you describe which are. So we basically take some Kubernetes resources usually CRDs and manipulate other custom resources so for example the built in deployment controller is exactly that kind of pure operator. The deployment takes a deployment resource and turns it into a replica set resource that it then owns. And it doesn't have any side effects other than that but there are a lot of operators that are not pure and and they do work. And, and I think that's the kind of operators that are sometimes very interesting in the CNF use case both are both are interesting. Yeah, yeah and in actual fact the operators that we the we have two operators in our base and those do have side effects although the side effects are more managing where we require pods to start or stop and that and that's really the really the limit of what we do we use the operator framework to, you know, bring workloads up and, you know, set configuration properties and those kind of things so it's almost like a pure operator where we're effectively just maintaining the stateful set that is then running the workload. We don't use operators to actually interact with the sort of application specific cluster that is all have a handled directly in the application posts, you know, outside of Kubernetes effectively or is running obviously running within Kubernetes but Kubernetes is completely kind of aware that we have a cluster. All right. So, what do we need. Well, I guess we need, we need some reviews on this one, but if folks could take a look and other than this memory thing Simon it looks like there hadn't been any other updates as far as updating. So we're trying to do is get this use case in that's, we want to get it merged so if folks can look at it and give your approval or request any clarifications, we're not trying to solve all the things. And if there's no major issues we want to get it in and start iterating once it's there versus keeping it open. Yeah, I will, I will address the the in memory as a one type of implementation I think that was the basic just the comment and so I'll change the wording to sort of suggest that rather than saying this is how you have to do it. So, you know, it's a use case. So, therefore, a particular example of the type of thing, as opposed to general China, we tried to be generic but obviously uses are specific to a use. This is, this is that use but I will try to make it even more generic. I don't think you have to remove the use of memory. I think you could, as you're saying your and the use case is tied into a specific use. So, you could, if it clarifies maybe before that starts to say, we've chosen memory as our solution now we're going to talk about that. There are other solutions and then it would be fine address it if if it doesn't make sense to go to generic, because that could get confusing. Yeah, okay, I will yeah I'll take that on board. Does anyone have anything else specific or otherwise you can just go review it and please give feedback and the PR itself. All right. And if you look at, if you click through, if you all don't see this already you can click through to Simons branch. And from there, you can actually see like the images and stuff, which don't show up. Yeah, I don't know but it's probably something with the location. Like the image may be somewhere else in the reference because it's not public. It's not a public URL so yeah, if you did a full URL it may work but it's fine. All right. Let's see the next use case, which we may not have. Let's see. I don't see issues on this call. This is a is actually to use cases and there's a discussion item on at least the synchronization timing, which I think was relevant for the stateful and stuff. Simon that you had talked about, but there's a discussion, a discussion one on this one as well. Or there's some things here. And there's been some topics. I'm going to just add that. Here, but this is actually adding two different use cases so the synchronization and timing for CNS and then this one's about. How do you have interfaces for CNS that do different types of communication. You had some general comments, I think, and then Frederick. I have to admit that I need to give this a much more thorough read than I last did. So, which is shameful because apparently it's been open for four weeks. Well, I think this one is another one where it's nice to click through see the use case directly so this go through and pull each of these up and they have some references. I'm not going to go through all that and they're not there. I'm not here but if folks can take a look at these trying to get it through. I think you had one here this onboarding. I'm going to pull that one up. And it looks, you know, we have some time. Use case. And we need more reviewers on this. Do you want to speak to this one book and I'm going to assign some folks. Yeah, I can I can shortly elaborate the background so it's. Do you want to share screen or anything. I could do that. There's anything to show. I could just walk through the merge request or pull request and then show. So it's a pretty, let's say non technical it's more process or methodology related use case. And I'm going to just grab the screen share. Hope you can see that now. Looks good. And now I'm noticing that I didn't. I didn't edit that. Anyway, I think we have a bit of issue with numbering because as people are making the use cases in parallel they pick the next free one and then by the time it's merged and there might be overlap. So, I guess this is why I didn't assign any any numbering at this stage. The use case is derived from the practical experiences over last say give or take a year where we are seeing the new situation emerging for the teams within the the operator or CSP and their partners and the vendors because so far. If you talk about physical network function PNF, it was brought to the CSP as it is designed and with a good documentation and integration interfaces. We don't have any anything like except the integration in the wider environment, but in terms of vertical stacking. It was full thing in the VNF world. We experienced that it ended up mostly on application vendor bringing either own NFEI or NFEI blueprint, which was stating the requirements. In the in the CNF case we have now a situation that they're in some CSPs like ours, but I was saying in most. There is the fact of one platform being being present and being developed, whatever kind of flavor you take with open source or some purchase platform but it's there. And there is expectation that on that platform, many of the of the different functions are running and this is now a new situation for the CSP network function teams and their vendors so that they need to do this onboarding. On the infrastructure and we saw number of challenges in in a current practice. First of all, the CNFs are written in a way that they are suitable for this service delivery or professional services departments of the vendors. So if the customer like CSP team takes it, the documentation is very much targeting people who are very deeply into that topic. So on the on the vendor side, and it's also targeting every every vendor so far we saw it has its own sort of platform blueprint. They're more open to integrate on the third party platform but all things and all know how it's kind of tilted towards this this blueprint. So we saw that that's one of the one of the elements that makes it difficult to do the onboarding that is really not the custom integration. The second is the requirements are not clear upfront with having in mind third party platform so they are usually coming in the portions. And we do a bit of trial and error type of onboarding so we get the first set then fulfill that and start onboarding and say oh no this is forgotten that is for forgotten. So what I'm trying to address with this use case I will not go in the in the more aspects there are a couple of more but it all revolves around. Do you have a like a state of the art package for that of that CNF that can be used like any kind of commercial software by the teams to onboard it on the operating system or install it somewhere and so on so the CNS are not in that state at the moment. And this use case is tackling the needs to go with some. Let's say more streamlined and then more. I will say state of the art approach when delivering and packaging those those application. And there are a couple of best practices for the software distribution that could be followed for cloud native software distribution. These kind of things. So that's the quintessence of it. Maybe just one thing that I didn't wrote here for a background in a couple of onboarding cases. It's also very fun process to do and then very insightful and learning process but it's, it could be more. Let's say much more professionalized but we say we come with a with a vendor and say oh we had in mind this and this I don't know we deploy with the Jenkins and this pipeline and so on. And then we do reverse engineering because we say on our platform we do something. That's more native to that helmet or whatever. So then we are reverse engineering their application coming to the basic artifacts and then building up the new packages so that we can read reproducibly. Deploy it and repeat and repeat it in the many environments it's kind of. I think there is a space for a best practice discussion and maybe a broader consensus how the things should be packaging the most neutral way. And if something is opinion opinionated and needs to be opinionated and it could be also put separately visible and emphasized. Does anyone have any questions or comments. It's another use case that we'd like to get in place and then specifically what book was saying start breaking that breaking down the parts and looking for different practices that we can eventually say here's good. So we're going to go ahead and talk about some of our cloud native and kubernetes practices and we want to split those out. And for those aren't familiar that one of the end goals is to make it where you can somewhat all the cart go in and you pick the different practices and be able to piece those together. I guess one comment I would make is. Well, it's, it's a good discussion here what the challenges are. But some of these challenges might be self inflicted. If, if you choose helm so that you know the comment is frequently are delivered as helm charts. So, you know, I don't know how neutral that is necessarily right there could be other ways to deliver and deploy CNFs. For example, you know going back to operators sorry one way could tell that the idea here is giving one example that's fine. In multiple ways, and I mean, helm was when it was coming in there were already multiple ways. So we're really talking about how do we help the people that are using helm. And if, if there's other ways, then we can also present like what is a use case that could cover multiple paths. That would be fine too. But if there's people that are using helm, then how do we help them, which maybe they're causing their own problems like you say, but if the request is there, they're already using it then how do we help them. Right, right, I absolutely agree with that my point is it's not titled that way this is titled more generically you know, a cube native approach. Well it's a very specific you've native approach that's that's what I'm saying. I mean, it's definitely, I think if you if you can suggest the edit on this to make it generalized. It was like one of the examples for what we meet in the practice. And, yeah, let's face it, the helm is one of the standards for distributing things but here what I try to point out is, even if they come with the helm. If you look at the helm best practices, they diverge very, very widely. So if you are used to, let's say, using helm in some way and then you meet a CNF that's packaging helm and then you see, oops, many things that I assume good helm package would do this. These are not covering. There could be many or not many but couple of sections like if you do helm charts. These are the recommendations these are maybe limits and so on. Yeah, would we go for operators and this would be recommendation and so on right kind of. And it is, how do we align CNS more or how would CNS align better with the modern cloud native software distribution practices. So, let's just be clear that what we're trying to do is not just different because it's CNS it's different because it's multiple applications on the same platform that want serious quantities of independence from each other. Now, what we could do ultimately from this is we could write a best practice that says if you insist on using helm then you should do these things that would be a perfectly reasonable best practice to have and I think it's quite, you know, a plausible thing to write. We know that CNF vendors of all stripes like providing helm charts. We know that helm charts come with limitations. We know that helm charts can be written in such a way that they have additional limitations. We could work through that and we could make a best practice that says if you're going to use helm, you use it in these ways. On the operator side of things then as yet, yes, operators definitely a good way of running an application you can write an operator specific to an application. They're also a terrible way of orchestrating an application because you're writing an operator that effectively is part of the platform because it is a platform service that effectively says the application is a platform service that's its purpose. So if we are going to do that then, you know, we have to document its strengths limitations and what we prefer. I think the right answer here may use some of some technologies from both of those piles but is neither of them exclusively by itself as things stand. But, you know, the tools we've got to work with so if we're going to let if we're going to say, use these things or don't use these things we better are saying something positive like use these things in this way so that in the future, you won't get into trouble. So I think something I think something that we're missing here as well is is who's the audience for for some of these documents as well so is the audience someone who is new to Kubernetes who's tasked with operating this stuff. They're looking at a greenfield deployment they're looking at, they're looking at something that already exists that has help charts already available. Or is it the developer who's trying to make a decision do I go with operators do I go with help charts the mixture of both. So I think if we, if we can get that particular thing set a little bit more tightly defined, then that'll that'll help with with describing what we what we want to put into this section. And it will allow us to to guide the guidelines effectively. I agree with everything said here. My feeling just is that maybe this use case can be broken down that the the issue of having the challenges having to do with helm deployment could be its own use case I think it's. I like this particular use case I think it just, it could be made more generic than it is right now because it. It just addresses a very specific challenge that isn't necessarily related to these cases a whole it's just. So, so a better way of phrasing that is rather than basically say, this is great but it's not what I want. I think we would say this is great but it's got a certain scope. So that we, you know, it's not pretending to be the solution to all problems and it doesn't need rewriting to be the solution to all problems it just needs to be the solution to the problem it describes. And then if you want a more generic one you go, you write a more generic one because it seems unfair that you want something that hasn't written because what he's written makes sense. So you won't let him commit it because it's not what you, you would have written yourself, I think, write your own, you know, forward progress is valuable here right if this is taking set the assumptions into account, and then moving forward from there then it should document its assumptions and that's all it needs to do. I'm not saying I would not accept this. This maybe. Yeah, but you see what I'm saying right if you think something some feedback is we should change this. Some feedback is we should do more than this and I think your feedback here is we should do more. Maybe to highlight actually this. I think the confusion comes probably from pointing out some specific very specific things in the limitations but if you look at the expected behavior. If I remember correctly, I put it in a very generic way talking about the actor so here is like a CNF DevOps team expects to deploy and configure the CNF application on their own. Preferably via automation pipelines and interaction with the platform team. So this is one expectation. How do you package for that. That's subject of best practices. Then they require well documented procedures tests and so on and so on. So that's kind of very generic how it would be but some I would say if you would say some challenges and limitation with cumulative approach this is depicting more or less state of school and and the practice, which we are facing and this is why it's singled out as it's pattern that repeats but we could enrich this or modify this, or, yeah, for that sake anything in that one. It's one one view and I would be perfectly fine to have some rounds with the comments or even suggested commits. You really only point out Helm charts on the limitations for the third paragraph the rest is pretty generic. So we're, and you specifically say they're frequently it's not saying that anyone else needs to do that it's that that's that is the case for applications deployed to Kubernetes or frequently. Maybe you could say generally are delivered. So I think that's okay. Back in the expected behavior on the second paragraph. Last sentence you you have this part where you're saying typical for cloud native applications and then Helm charts containers and manifest. Those are just examples. So I think we're open to expanding on this and we could have a more specific ones, but this is already I think pretty general, and you could talk, you could definitely talk about applications that are only manifest files. And we've seen those doing some testing where there, you have manifest for deploying the containers but you do not have Helm charts covering all the different pieces. And there could be other ways of doing that. But is there a. Yeah, I could talk in detail about some, some things like, you know, many operators that that are mentioned are also coming package or to be installed by Helm charts and we see that many of them install user charts to install CRDs and Helm is not good at all in handling CRDs so they cannot upgrade CRDs properly. So then we come to the point to ask the vendors. Okay, now, yeah, we got it installed. How do we want to manage it at the next step. And then this is where we get discussion going. So, I could even provide the more, more technical insights behind this abstract things I could expand the list because indeed we are having in many cases Helm charts that install the operators that installed and rest of the things. And then we repeatedly say to vendors, please separate your CRD creation out of the Helm chart. If you still want to have a Hem chart put it in the manifest because we cannot manage it properly via Hem chart in the life cycle later on. Right and there's a middle ground to you can use customize with the K. That's kind of a helm helm light. It's not used that much but I have seen it use. If you say, don't, don't add in the CRD creation you specifically mean that this the custom resource definition itself or the custom resource definition, customization definition because it's immutable at the end and if you want to use a upgrade, Helm will fail on that. If you have a big hand chart that bundles CRD definitions and deployments or whatever, rest of it, then when you want to to change something you do update then it will fail because it cannot touch CRDs. And then nothing else will get get updated. So then we say if you want to to make this to manage this application via these hand charts that you provide then you need to separate out the CRD or definition part. When they are created once and they are changing rarely, but also even if frequently they are changing separately in a different mechanism. Is that a limitation with the Kube native approach or is that a limitation with the Helm tool itself. I mean, it's a Helm perspective. Helm is the best access or de facto standard anyway, of delivering CNS so it's just a limitation of Helm not being able to manage the lifecycle of a CRD. Which, which is to be fair because it's a cluster wide resource that really shouldn't change very often.  You have all sorts of these of these issues. You know, just see the orchestra tool we just saw is one solution to that. That's exactly to separate. If the problem we've got a handful of problems here again, you know, in theory, you can write the CRD for a, an operator that operates a an application. That's a problem. Okay, so I've got two versions that application I want to run simultaneously and they require different versions of the operator and that all goes a bit kind of tips up. So it's where orchestra has a slightly different thing it's basically trying to say here's something, you know, that would work for any application I'm more sympathetic to that a little bit like Helm is also application agnostic it doesn't care. And again, you would, you would probably want to write the best practice on that kind of CRD saying, here are best practice versioning behaviors for CRD for compatibility and, you know, semantic versioning and so on. Yeah, I mentioned orchestra just that it solves the chicken and egg problem so it can separate the creation to a different chart of the CRD but there are other challenges to you need that admin access or some sort of elevated access to create CRD's Yeah, work clothes always have them. Obviously, there are a lot of you characterize it correctly that CRD is a really extending the platform they're not simply part of the workload. Yeah, and that's my point right orchestra could be a part of a mandated part of the platform, because it's not trying to be specific to a individual CNF or one vendor set of CNS. It would be a good example of something you could make a mandated part of the platform. But I think what you can't do, and I think we could write a best practice to this end right now and sort of start getting to the point of yeah well the world doesn't work the way it needs to work. You can't practically speaking include an operator within an application and keep that preserve that platform application boundary. Even though people do that. It is a bad practice and we should document it as such. Well, I, I don't want to get into. We're right here at the top of the hour I want to ask, so you're intent on this, were you trying to be more general, or would you like to have that because this is real. This is your use case you're putting forward so where do you want to go with this. It could be something where you're saying onboarding. Of helm based or helm package CNS and talking about the challenges, if that's what you're wanting, but where are you wanting to go and then so that we can get some feedback for you to get my idea was to illustrate or to specify the the sector of practical challenges and expectations in general related to to say what we call onboarding. So it's more or less installation, let's simplify it installation of and CNF into the Kubernetes based platform. So I would prefer to keep it. Generally seems that it triggers some discussions on best practices, which we could all refer to this to this point I would, if there is an interest and this is a feedback if there is interest to show deeper. What are the specific issues with helm. We could go in that way additionally and say, this is kind of umbrella, because it's not only to specific to help it's specific to, to what audience. What installation audience are vendors preparing those functions is it their professional services team who gets specially trained for that, or it's experience professional on a CSP. What is the best practice what we believe is open to discussion. It is also how they prepare documentation the prerequisites and so on. So it's a set of things out of which we can either derive a number of practices. And if we feel helm or whatever is maybe more burning one, we can focus more on that. I would prefer to keep it in this umbrella mode, and maybe make it more general or may make it broader to cover, let's say, other aspects. And then if there is appetite I could go and then write a separate one like use case best practices or challenges with the with the helm based deployments. But that one would go then in in the details of where the things are failing what specifically in helm. We see as a as a as a challenge ring and so on. All right. You talk about some so to move just away from helm, like you have get ops and then production practices so if this is going to be more general and high level. If you can look at, I think it's how are we communicating so if, if on the use case the focus is around practices and trying to solve certain problems. And we're looking for solutions and practices out of that. So you've kind of pointed out some of these and the in the comments here, the packaging and distribution and other stuff. So maybe at the end, it is at the end of the file actually, I think if you go, if you view it and go. So what needs to be done differently. This is kind of a call for action or rallying cry. All right. I'll be up for working with you some and trying to see if we can expand and call some of the things out, but it sounds like we're not. We're not saying here is we've solved problems but laying out a bunch of the problems that are there, maybe is what you're pointing out here. So this would be talking about the problems. We have follow up use cases and then eventually best practices that point back and say, this saw helps try to solve one out of the larger set. Is that kind of the direction. Yep. So I raised my hand. I'm willing to work with you. Either a sink or we can do some synchronous as well. And we're at the top of our folks. Frederick, if you're available next week to do the talk about the government regulations and cybersecurity, we can join that. Yeah, not a problem that measure work. All right. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Cheers. Thanks.