Okay, so I will try to explain to you what TrueBit is all about, why we need it, and what can be used for it. To start, I would like to talk about the topic of scalability. This is a chart of Bitcoin transactions per day and it starts in January 2009 and this is basically now. It's a linear scale and you can already see that, yes, so, it's growing. That's not so much in the last months, but, yeah, and it's similar chart for Ethereum. This is, yeah, transactions per day also, starting in July, August 2015, until now, but also say it's kind of growing. Yes, so the question is, blockchains do not scale currently and this is one of the main debates in the Bitcoin community. But what does it mean, what does the scale mean? To put it simply, something scales if it performs equally well as it grows. And currently for Bitcoin, there is empiric evidence that this is not the case because it's, so it gained more and more popularity over time and now it's harder and harder to get transactions accepted and they also get more expensive. And of course, this problem exists in exactly the same way for Ethereum, perhaps even worse since transactions can be more complicated, but currently Ethereum did not hit this limit yet. And what is the reason that blockchains don't scale? The simple answer to that is that every full node has to process every single transaction. Verify every single transaction. And of course, this does not really work well because you have a, so you have the fixed block time, the time between two blocks and in this time, if the system grows, which means it has more and more transactions, then every node would have to process more and more transactions in the same time interval. In scalable database systems, for example, you have the property that if the usage increases of something of the database system, then you can just add more servers and it will balance that out. So if you add more nodes, then you can cope with high demand. And that is not possible with blockchains because of this property that every full node has to process every single block. And of course, we have this property because of trust. If we distribute transactions just across some nodes, then those nodes might be able to cheat because not all other nodes verify the transactions. So as I already said, scalability is also exactly the same problem in Ethereum. And the difference between Ethereum and Bitcoin is that we were very well aware of that from the very start, which does not mean that we knew the solution for the very start or that we had some way to already prepare for scalability. But we at least knew that we will have to do at least one artwork to cope with the scalability problem. And there are at least three proposals how to scale the Ethereum blockchain. And the first one is the CASPER research program. So CASPER is not just about proof of stake but also about trying to scale the blockchain. And the idea in CASPER is that you use a concept called sharding that's more or less the same concept that is also used for these scalable distributed databases. They're the ideas that you just send transactions to just certain nodes for verifying. But CASPER makes it secure again by rotating these verifiers in regular intervals. Then there is Rayton, which is the Ethereum analogy of the lightning network, which is a Bitcoin lightning network. And there the idea is that you can scale transactions by grouping them in a certain way. You move them off chains, you don't process them in the blockchain, but you process them in a different network. And then at the end you group them, you group multiple transactions, a single transaction and just put that transaction on the blockchain in very, very simple words. So you can get more transactions in quotes into a single actual transaction on the blockchain. That's how it scales. And Trubit is the third way. And there the idea is to scale computations. I will explain a little bit more later what that actually means. And the way to scale it is using interactive verification, but we'll also go into detail on that. And also a nice thing to note is that only CASPER requires an actual fork, because the other two ways to scale can be directly implemented on the smart contract mechanism. Okay. Why do we need to scale computation? So Ethereum has smart contracts, which means computations running on the blockchain, but they are limited in complexity, limited in resource usage because of the fact that every full node has to process every transaction. And with Trubit you can get smart contracts, which do not have a gas limit essentially. They can be written in any programming language. The reason you hide that is so if you don't have a gas limit, you can just take a program written in Python and then just put the Python interpreter on the blockchain and run the Python program through that. Ethereum smart contracts can be driven by neural networks, so that we can have artificial intelligence on the blockchain. And you can even have file system access in smart contracts, which means you have a smart contract and it accesses that terabytes big file and reads a single chunk in there or even computes a big sum over all the entries in this gigantic file. Of course, these smart contracts will not run directly on the blockchain. We know it doesn't scale, but the trust promise will be the same as if they would run on the blockchain. So this was a bit abstract, some more specific practical examples. With Trubit you can link multiple blockchains. So there's this Dogecoin Ethereum bridge project, which tries to create a bridge not only from Dogecoin to Ethereum, but also from Ethereum to Dogecoin. And the idea is that you can take Dogecoin and move it to the Ethereum blockchain, where it will be an independent token. You can move it around as a token there and then also move it back, destroying the token and releasing or generating new Doge on Dogecoin. For that, you basically need a light client for the other network in the other network. And the light client for Dogecoin running on Ethereum will, yeah, as I said, so if you don't have a gas limit, you can just implement anything and verify the full Dogecoin blockchain on Ethereum. Another project is, so Golem, Golem is a project to, yeah, pay for other people to do your computations and their white paper mentions Trubit to actually verify that these computations were done correctly. And another example is LivePure. They want to create a video streaming platform where people are paid to encode the videos and they want to use Trubit to verify that the encoding was done correctly. Okay, another very nice property of Trubit I want to mention is that it has so-called unanimous consensus. This means that, okay, perhaps I should first explain the general framework. So Trubit works in a way where you have a computation task. You have a program to run. Someone runs the program off-chain and puts the result on it. And then people can reroute the same computation and check that it was done correctly if they want. And the idea, so this is similar to a blockchain where you have multiple miners who process all transactions and then verify each other. And on a blockchain, if you have a disagreement there, then you get a fork. And if you can convince over 50% of the hash power that your version is the correct one, then you basically convince the whole network. Not exactly like that, but roughly. And for Trubit it's different because you have to convince every single person. So as long as there is a single honest person who checks the computation and posts on the blockchain that he or she disagrees and the person is actually right, then it will not go through. So the person will get the result. So basically there's only one connection for a question board from the executioner. Basically, not on every computation I have to submit a different question to the side. But only if there's one question and I want to debate it. I did not send a question, sorry. I run a transaction and I'm saying that it was done wrong when it was cheating and then something did transact wrong. But I don't think the transaction, everything runs fine. And everybody agrees. Yes, yes. So only in the case of actually cheating. Yeah. And another question? You probably get this, how is that done? Is that your same thing or how is that? We'll get to that. Yeah, so some of you have been here in an earlier talk about the same topic. And this first line was already in the first talk, but the second line is actually new. So some months ago we said, OK, a single honest verifier suffices so that nobody can cheat. But it turned out that this single honest verifier is not always there. But yeah, we added an economic incentive mechanism to actually ensure that this single honest process is also always there. And so there are other projects which do similar things, like GoVendMyExec and some. But the difference to those projects is that they focus mainly on performing the computations or outsourcing the computations, but not on the fact that they are done correctly. And Trubit, on the other hand, is focusing mainly on correctness and not on reducing the costs or something like that. So Trubit is really about scaling out what can be done inside a single transaction. If you don't have gas limit, how do you solve the whole thing problem? I don't even know what a problem is. OK, then so it's Ethereum smart contracts, but with an extremely very much higher gas limit. You're right. So Trubit has some concept of gas, but it's much more relaxed than it really is. OK, so yes. This was the non-technical part. Just to see everyone here. Yeah, I hope it's still all understandable. So how do we do that? Yeah, as we already said, the main problem why we cannot scan computations because everyone has to complete everything. So the solution is obviously, build a system where not everyone has to complete everything. So I have a computational task posted on the blockchain. And two or three people take it on and perform the computation and then post the result on the blockchain. And the main point here is not, we just take the majority answer. But the main point is if we have any disagreement here, then these people go to court. And court here means blockchain. So we have the smart contract judge who finds out without error who gave the wrong answer. And again, the simple solution here would be that the smart contract just reruns the full computation. But that, again, doesn't scale. So the checking who was in error has to be magnitudes faster than actually running a computation. OK, and how do we do that? We use a concept called the verification game. So and the key term here is not sound playing, but binary search. And we'll see how that works in a minute. So a computation in a same computation model always consists of some kind of steps. So we have a computation which starts at step one and ends at step one million. And every single step is quite small, easy to follow. And we have a proposer with an input, a challenger with the same input. But at the end, they come up with two different outputs. That's their disagreement. And what they do is they rerun the whole computation while taking a snapshot of memory in every single step, computing a Merkle tree of that snapshot, and storing the Merkle root. They do not submit the Merkle root. They do not submit all the Merkle roots to watching right away what they store. And this means the Merkle root at the beginning will be the same because they start in the same in a very fixed setting. And it will be different in the end because their memory content, their output is different. And then the smart contract, the judge, will come and say, I would take the step in the middle here and ask them for the Merkle root of their state at that point in time. And they might give the same answer. This means that at some point here in the second half, there has to be at least one single step where we go from agreement to disagreement. So both parties were in agreement here, but they are in a disagreement here. So at some point along the line here, they have to move from agreement to disagreement. And that's just the point that we use, that we try to find using binary search. So the smart contract asks for the center position here. And the parties again reply here. They get a different reply. So we continue the search in this area. This goes on and on. And at some point, because the size of this time interval always halves, at some point we will reach a situation where we have one step where both parties are in agreement and the next step where the parties are in disagreement. And the good thing about that is that a smart contract can, so a smart contract can just take, start with the situation here in this step and just recompute a single step and check which is the correct result. Because a single step is easy to compute. We have some computational power on the blockchain, but it's very limited. And yeah, a single step easily fits in this. Okay, so this takes 20 rounds, which is quite long I would say. I mean, it's still tiny compared to one million steps. That's what I said has to be magnitude faster on chain than actually buying the full computation. But still, yeah, the good news is that these 20 rounds can be further reduced. And so the more the cheater is followed with certainty, there's no way to get around that. And but because of that, if you try to cheat, you already know you will lose in that game if someone watches, then why would you want to play the game? So why would you want to cheat? So as long as you know that someone watches, you will probably not cheat, which means that this verification game is actually never played. But it has to be there and it has to be in code and correct for this whole mechanism to work. Yeah, so if there's someone who watches, then the verification game will not be played, but still everything works out. And the problem is, so everything works perfectly. Everything works perfectly. All people, nobody cheats. Everything works fine. There's one honest verifier who verifies everything. And so how the game works is that, of course, this is all a deposit base. So all participants put a deposit on chain. And if they are guilty of cheating, then their deposit is destroyed and the people who discovered that fact, they get a reward. So the verifier will get a reward if they find an error. But if everything works fine, then yeah, they never find an error. So they will never get a reward. And this is actually a very fundamental problem because as a verifier, how do you prove to a system that you check the computation? You can, at the end, you can say, oh yes, yeah, seven, that's also the result I got. But yeah, I mean, you knew the result beforehand. So how can you, yeah, you can just have copied that. So yeah, over time, the verifier will lose interest because they are not paid in any way but have to do exactly the same work as the main problem solvers. So they will stop looking and as soon as the solvers notice that nobody's looking anymore, then they can cheat and the whole system breaks down. So we need a way to pay verifiers for their work. And the solution to that is something called forced errors. And the way it works is you basically inject an error into this whole process, which can then be detected by the verifiers and then they can be paid for that. So, the system. So, okay, perhaps I should have explained the whole setting a bit more, sorry about that. So if you want the Trubit system to solve a task for you, you have to pay for that. So you have to pay, yeah, a fee. And this fee is in part paid out to the person who posts the solution to the task and in part it is saved in an account called jackpot. And if such a forced error occurs and a verifier finds the error, then the verifier is paid from that jackpot. And so, yeah, I mean, of course it's a bit different. The solver cannot be punished because the solver had to inject this forced error. It's a pseudo-random but deterministic process and the solver cannot kind of, yeah, choose to include or not include it. Okay, Al, is that clear how it works? Oh, GPS. Wait for it. No, because, yeah, it has flaws. What do you have? What do you have pseudo-random in? So, true randomness doesn't exist on a blockchain. That's why we need pseudo-randomness and it's kind of, there are multiple factors that go in and it's just a process that can be verified by a smart contract. So, the, what is it? Explosive. In between. Yeah? So, that's who injects the error. Is it the, the proposer and self? And so, the solver. So, there's a proposer who gives the task and the solver who solves the tasks and posts the solution to the blockchain. Let's have the solver know that he has to include in an... So, it's some deterministic function taking into account, I think, the block hash and perhaps also the hash of the solution. So, so that, and the idea is that the solver knows that this just happened. Okay, let's, let's perhaps skip the next slide where we'll find another problem. So, the solver knows that this happened. That, so the solver is forced to inject a forced error and this condition is also verifiable by smart contracts on-chain and if the solver does not do inject the error then he or she will be punished. And the problem is now, so everyone who detects this error gets a reward. And now the solver can of course notify verifiers about the fact that the error, that the forced error just happened. So, the ideal word, the solver, injects the error but does not tell anyone about that because we want the verifiers to actually re-execute everything. So, right? So, okay, perhaps, yeah. These forced errors, so the rewards for finding the forced errors are of course not for the forced errors. We pay the verifiers rewards at forced errors because that's where we can pay them but the actual idea is that we want the verifiers to verify all other transactions too. It's just, so they have to verify everything because such a forced error might happen in every single task and you only know that it happened after the fact, basically. And so, as a verifier you have to acquire that information that a forced error happened and the way we want the verifier to acquire that information is by just re-executing the task, okay? And there's a second way that they can acquire this information and that's by asking the solver, right? Because the solver knows that the error happened because they had to inject the error and of course on a smart contract blockchain you have all sorts of weird, bribery things which are possible so it's quite trivial to just add a mechanism where solvers are paid by verifiers to tell them to give them this information. And the question is how do we, yeah? So the verifier is only paid out when that is narrow but that can be verified as correct. Sorry, can you say that? The verifier is paid out but he access a limitation as an error. Yes, so this. But that's when the limitation, the original limitation is correct. The verifier verifies the limitation is correct.  So the verifier is paid out when the verifier. So it's a, it happens at random, more or less regular intervals? Yeah, so the random error is the way for the verifier to be paid out. Yes, it's. And the mining. Yeah, exactly. Can we compare the mining where you get a payout, yeah, not, with every block, but at a certain time. Spend a shift on information more which is going to be an interesting to work solving those injected errors. More useful. So the people are then more motivated to check those actually and it might decrease their motivation to go out. Sure, so as a. If they don't know again. Yeah, as a verifier, since you can only pay for forced errors or for errors, you want to only verify these tasks but there's no way to find out whether it's. So I mean, the only way to find out is, or there are two ways to find that out. One is rewriting the computation and the other is getting that information from the software. Wouldn't the other way round be to randomly pay people for checking rewriting applications to go to a conference is that we did it. So whoever, we don't care who actually runs the verification as long as someone does. It's like a search dog. You have to put in fake rewards to keep you interested. Yeah, but I just question whether it increases. I mean, they increase interest but mainly for the wrong motivation. So one, I just ask myself that it's also possible to increase the motivation for the things where you say you can't check when they really need. You have to run everything to find the rewards, the errors, first errors. I mean, it's exactly the same thing you do when they use just verifying. So yeah, how do you prevent the solver from telling the verifiers that a solver, yeah, okay? Maybe I should be choosing the verifier. Sam. So that would be kind of like, how much information we need to validate that this is a true outcome or true consultation. So some different circumstances. Yeah, I mean, so on a blockchain, you never know.  So you don't have a reputation system attached to the solvers and yeah, it's difficult.  Also against kind of arbitrary bribery, smart contracts. That's why just sampling the solvers is not the best solution, I think. But you're randomly changing the, what did you say, randomly changing the solvers? Yeah. No, not the solvers, the verifiers. Basically, as the same randomizer could be erasable, of course, errors. Something I perhaps didn't say clearly is that anyone can be a verifier. And also, you can step in as challenging a computation from outside at any time. You're not, so that's another model when you say you have to verify the computation. But if you do that, then you have to punish people when they do not verify the computation. That's kind of a tricky thing to do. Okay, but that's what we cannot put as a solution. But this is one question. So basically, every time I do a computation, I do have to submit a redstone structure and do a solvers with the solve. Basically, each computation would be better, how large it is, one to two transactions. So this is meant for large computations, yes. And the whole process takes multiple transactions, yes. Okay, so it's not scaling the amount of transactions and computation of the transactions, which is the size of the transactions. So it takes a constant amount of transactions, in a good case, where we don't have to run the verification game. But the length of the computation can be... Exactly, we increase the diameter of what we have for the other project, but I can't do more transactions, right? I can only do lots of ones. Yes, so Trubit does not scale the number of transactions, but it scales the amount of computation on transactions. But it feels like that the middle would be right. We just find all the transactions together. You put more than that. Okay, this is how you prevent the solver from sharing the information about the forced error with the verifiers. And so we don't prevent the solver from also challenging their own computation in case of forced error. That's a good thing. So the solver just get another reward, we can factor that in with the regular rewards. So that's fine. But the idea is that the reward will decrease dramatically the more challenges there are. So these numbers can actually be improved, but that's how it is written in the white paper. So I will explain it like that. So if we only have one challenge, this is usually just the solver challenging him or herself, the solver will get a reward of 100. That's just some fixed number. And if there's another challenge, then the two challenges will both get 25 and then some 50. So if the solver shares that information with someone, the solvers reward will decrease from 100 to 25. So that's not something you would like to do. And also are a verifier and acquired that information by rerun the computation yourself. You also don't want to share it. Because then, yeah, if only you and the solver found that out then your reward decreases from 25 to 8.3. So yeah, that's the way how you can solve this information sharing problem. Okay, this basically stands against whatever the computation is worth, right? So the computation moves with a lot of money that might be, or I could potentially move up. So of course, so yeah, this all runs on a blockchain and even the blockchain has an upper limit of how much, what do you want to do on the blockchain? But what, which value is attached to what you do? So if you, if you put something on a blockchain which is worth more than the whole blockchain, better attacker can just attack the blockchain and get this thing somehow, yeah? And two questions first. And the first one is not really, so it's connected but it is not a problem for this solution but it's another attack. And can I, as a verifier, simply wait until someone challenges and then only run this particular computation because I'm quite sure that there's a problem in this particular computation then it always would be good for us without a great time hasn't it? Yes, very good question. That's especially relevant for the solver because the solver immediately knows there's a forced error. So you could just watch if the solver challenges are not. Because of that, you have to randomly make something called fake challenges. So it has to be some commit reveal mechanism where you first post something to the blockchain which looks like a challenge but then in the end turns out it's not a challenge. Okay, so that's part of that. But there's another problem which I see. And for example, there's some random numbers. If you have like a forced error every 10 computations or whatever and each computation requires quite a lot of work for the solver. And so what he really would like to do is just post fake results. And he earns a lot of money because he doesn't have to have this computing cluster behind him, so whatever. And so what he could still do would say, okay, I just share this information anyways and for these forced errors I don't get any money because I share the information and everyone can challenge and so on. So I don't get any money for the forced errors but I save all this money for the other transactions where I don't have to run my computing cluster and because I always share the information about the forced error, no one will ever look at my other computations because they know that I didn't share information about the forced error, there won't be an error. So no one will challenge any of my other computations and I'm like, so if there's a mismatch between money you can earn on the forced errors and money you can save by not having to run the other computations. The, so this is the reward the verifiers get for, so if you do it every 10 tasks we were more think a lot about every 100 tasks but so this is the only reward the verifiers get for verifying all the transactions for the tasks until the last forced error and the amount of work they put in is the same amount of work that the solver puts in. So this, the amount that is paid out here is extremely large, so it's comparable to the sum of all the computation fees paid for the tasks until the last process. Okay. You're talking about running arbitrary code, right? Like running some like lines of, I mean running some Eiffel software or something, some crazy thing, and but at the same time you're talking, you gave a couple of examples where there was the need for on-chain combination or injecting the error as well as for the computation of the last step between the right result and wrong result from the work. And so, but wouldn't that require that on-chain combination has to be running like Eiffel code or Python code or something? So we're planning to implement this single step verification for a process, for architecture called Lanai, which is developed by Google for some networking processor. This architecture is quite simple and Google wrote an LLVM backend for that architecture. So you can compile C, C++ and Rust code into that backend. And I'm not sure what Eiffel is written in. Eiffel is a language in the 90s, I just think it's very relevant. Yeah, but so yeah, anything you can, where you have, so if you have a, yeah, if you have something that runs on LLVM, then you can do it. And even if you have an interpreter written in C or C++, then you can also do it. How about having access to things like you have access to electricity, like block number and block hash and value, like I don't have to at least have it complicated, right? Yeah, I mean, it's not part of a block so it doesn't really make a lot of sense. It's just, so also this file search that only works for pure functions. So you have to include the full state and input and output. You can work on Swarm files, as I said, but that requires that you actually have a proof that the file is available, which is possible in Swarm, at least in the final version. And that's why you can, so you can basically put the hash of the Swarm file as an input and then you can read it during the process. So all that won't happen is state and I can't go through any value in file search. If you want to use state, it has to be part of the image. But it's fine, maybe, yeah. You can take the whole blockchain as input and run a single block on there. Are there always multiple Swarmers for every computation or is one Swarmers sufficient? So, yeah, this is something that we still have to work out in experiments, but it's, yeah, it depends on the reliability, but perhaps one or two. Is there a strategy to wait for another Swarm, a competing Swarm that gets the same result or re-submitting the same result? Is that a possible strategy to cheat the system? Okay, sorry though, yeah. It only works with, so this module where it currently only works with this one Swarm. So you post a task and then a Swarm commits to the task, runs the task and posts the solution. Yeah, there's a verifier, but in the same, same. How often, one, you said that the challenge, no, no, when you said that there are two solutions and then there's a final search or comparing the two solutions, how is this done when there's only one solver and one solution? I know there's a solver and a verifier who are discriminated. Back there on the question room. Yeah, when did you release the white paper explaining this? Sorry? When did you release the white paper? Did, two weeks ago, I guess, or not. It's a technical white paper, I have to, at least. Yeah, it might be a headache, just please the right hammer and then ask you this question, but another attack that I would come up with, and so in principle, you wouldn't have a situation where then there would be a solver that would always be verifiers. You know, that's what we wanted. So in the end, every time there's a cost error, there won't be the only one challenge because the solver will challenge and one, two, three, four, five, six verifiers will challenge. And at some point, you will reach an equilibrium because if there are too many verifiers, they won't earn anything, and if there are some decreases, then they won't earn any increase until there's some kind of equilibrium. Okay, the equilibrium is the solver plus three verifiers. Just, you know, for all you can say. Wouldn't it then make sense for the solver to just create four counts and always submit four challenges with this challenge and three other challenges so everyone looking at that sees, ah, there are already enough verifiers, it doesn't make sense for me to join in. And then same problem as before. Yeah, that's called the scaring of verifiers attack. Yeah, there is a solution to that. And the idea is that always save multiple parallel tasks via choose randomly between these tasks. So it's a bit difficult, but it's expanding way deeper. This is really cool. What is the road map overall? No, that's not a road map. So we don't have a full road map yet, but we're actually planning on implementing that for both funding and developers to do that. The exact specifics are not clear yet. But, yeah. Yeah, to wrap up. So, yeah, I explained how throughput scales trusted computation would be in other circumstances. So, the only requirement is a working trusted execution environment with limited capacity, so in blockchain. And it can be scaled to more or less unlimited capacity and with unanimous consensus. The website is true. The technical white paper has a complicated link which can also be found on the website. Okay, thank you. For the last one, I'll approach it. In terms of scalability, is that an either worse scenario or can you have this like true but run simultaneously as the other proposed solutions? Yeah, it doesn't require hard fork.  Okay. So the whole system does not require Ethereum specifically, but just some smart contract blockchain system, some trusted execution environment.


And as part of the ongoing war against drug abuse amongst Nigerians, especially the youthful population at the grassroots, the National Drug Law Enforcement Agency NDLEA has hinted on plans to establish offices across the 774 local government areas across the country. Chairman of the agency, Buber Maruad disclosed these as a function in Ilarian Aquarius State Capital, while speaking of the efforts being put in place to further reduce drugs supply and demand across the country. Indeed, the war against drug abuse has taken a new dimension globally. Empacies is now being led on drug demand reduction, where the most vulnerable group in the society, especially the youth and the younger generations, are now the main focus. Furthermore, our determination to open NDLEA offices across all local government areas in Nigeria is another testimony of tackling the drug menors at the grassroots level. The idea is to put together stories that will serve as a guide or a reference point for those that are vulnerable to substance use and at the same time give hope to someone who uses drugs, that there is hope for treatment and recovery is possible. Other speakers at the function attributed the rising level of banditry and kidnapping to substance abuse calling for steefer penalties for drug barons in the society. We also need to strengthen our laws to make sure that those who are engaging trafficking in drugs, the big drug barons, face serious consequences. Something tells me that if drugs kill, as drugs are killing, I think it's important not to treat the barons with kickloops. I think we need to make the laws also very draconian. And it has caused a lot of damage. The so-called kidnapping and banditry going on in Nigeria is as a result of too many drugs in the society on the land. We just have to make effort to cover it.


boom What's up money geeks, mr. V here welcome to another video guys So in this one we are going to talk about sulfite ticker symbol s o f i So this is a company that we cover here on the channel through the process of them Going public through a spark. So I told you guys that I used their platform And I think it's an excellent platform and so far looking at where the company is going I think this is still One that you should keep your eyes on so if you haven't already But some stocks this is something that you should probably do some homework and see if you can add it to Your portfolio, so I want to talk about that into this video But before we get started guys, if you're new to the channel We talked about how to earn money how to save money how to invest and build wealth So if you have something that interests you go ahead and hit that subscribe button and the notification bell So you don't miss out on new Content. So guys when it comes to a sulfite again, like I said, this is one that I really like I like the direction that the company is going after The merger to go public We've seen this stock go up and down But again, I think it's still sitting at a position where Investing in this long term Absolutely makes sense again guys This is a stock that I recommend long term But you can definitely catch the dips here and swing this stock Again, so if you remember last time we did a we did a video here I told you guys this thing was somewhere around 15 or so dollars I say this is a good spot to pick up some shares. Let me jump here to the chart. You can actually see so We saw this thing pull back maybe like last Two months ago and I told you guys so this is there's a one month chart So let's go here six months So if you can see a back in may what do you think dropped down to 15 bucks and I said this would have been 14 actually these would have been a good spot for us to pick up some shares And after we did that look at a squeeze all the way up to a high of about 23 dollars almost 24 And then now it's pulled back again. So if you look at the cycle it's repeating itself So it dropped down again to 15 and now if you missed there's this 15 Dollar price board. This would have been a good spot to get in again, but it's not too late.  So all these tips right here This would be good places where you can continue to buy and add to your portfolio. So That's something that you should actually keep in mind.  So for those of you that don't know so far Let me kind of give you a brief background here. So so far it's a fintech So again, they have everything in house. Some people like it. Some people don't like it But I see why people are going to love it and I personally love it for for the reason that You have everything in one. So instead of you logging into 15 different accounts to do 15 different things You can totally look into one account and do all of those things. So let's kind of walk through here So they do investing so you can invest in the stock market. They have fractional shares You can also invest in cryptocurrency. They do personal loans So you can apply for a personal loan. It takes about 10 minutes. You get approved They do student loan refinancing then you can manage your money So deposit your paycheck using to pay your bills and do all the other things that you do They have a debit card or credit card now the stuff that you would need Um, the home loan you can apply for a home loan If you're looking to buy a house and they would kind of approve or give you An idea of what you can be approved for in a really uh, a quick amount of time Next year they again, like I said, they have their own credit card. They're so far credit card They can give you private student loans if you don't have Um student loans through the government you can go there and apply for private student loans Obviously insurance they do credit score and budgeting which is very important because as we know Majority of people don't even know what their monthly budget is So this would be a good place So you can put everything into one spot and get a holistic picture of your finances And then they also do other loans So this is this is just some of the key things that they do also If they recently apply for a bank chatter Which means that they would actually have a physical bank location And if this is approved by november You would see a boost in the and the and the price of the stock here And then for a lot of you guys that are in la You probably see the company has their name at the ram stadium sofi stadium That's the name that is again another opportunity during nfl games where this company would continue to get exposure And people will start looking up and trying to figure out what's going on there So again, so this is something that you can definitely Um, you know do some research on and see if so far is something a good stock for you I personally think this is a good one But uh, again, that's just my personal take and you can see there are a user basis actually Exploded they've actually just in the past here. They've actually added 2.3 million Users, which is insane. So the growth is coming the the platform is growing is getting more exposure And so definitely go out there check them out. Like I said Um, the reason i'm doing this video is because there's an opportunity here to do one of two things to buy for long term Or to buy the swing So if you catch it down here You buy this thing and swing it if you catch it down here buying and holding I'm I'm holding long term So when I get these these dips right here, I'm just buying and holding So I want to make sure that I put it out there for you guys to get the opportunity to Hopefully add this to your portfolio I see so far as a one-stop shop when it comes to Money management investing and all that stuff and again, this is not for sophisticated investors This is for people that just want simple investing if you have A job you have direct deposit you use so far money they deposit your money in there You immediately take your 100 or 200 dollars that you're willing to invest every month and put it into your investment account Without living the platform you just transfer that into your investment account Which is brilliant in my opinion It's going to force you to want to do this and you can also automate the process So it takes that money and just invest it in that platform and when you log in You can see what your investments are doing and you can see your money management and your credit card and credit score and all that stuff Within the platform. So again, I really really like this one. So Let me know in the comment section what you think about is Do you have so far? Do you plan on buying so far? If yes Let me know what your strategy is going to be here moving forward If you're new to the channel, we talk about how to earn money How to save money how to invest and build wealth If that's something that interests you go ahead and hit that subscribe button and your notification bell So you don't miss out on new content also guys if you are looking to get some free money Go to sofi.com. I'm going to put the links in the description below. That's my affiliate link If you click on that link go on there. You sign up.  So definitely Check that link and go check it out and see if that's something that you're interested in And also if you are new to investing guys, you want to do day trading and all that good stuff You definitely want to use webo because as a platform I use again I have those links in the description if you sign up I deposit a hundred dollars you get free stocks at no cost to you and as always guys Do your due diligence.  Stay motivated


Thank you. Hi guys, sorry for the late start, a little bit of technical difficulties, but hopefully we'll get through this. Disclaimer, this is generic information. Seek individual advice if you wanna know about your scenario. So what we're covering today, I mean, I've already been introduced, I'll do a little bit more, but that's it. We're gonna talk about determining the underlying price. And those of you, how many went to Ben's topic this morning? Quite a few, about half you. So Ben's topic and my topic definitely interlink a lot, which is really good because they do kind of work together. And then I'm gonna talk about packaging, which is a way for you to save time and make more money, which is something really important to you guys as web designers, so I'm gonna be doing that. Then we're gonna talk about a few challenges that come up with pricing. There's a few common things I see, and then a little bit of summary at the end. So who am I? As was mentioned, I have my own business as well as, in fact I have two, as well as the Business Connect service. What that's allowed me to do is see 850 small business owners over the course of the last three or so years, face-to-face, one-on-one. That's in addition to the thousands I see through speaking and networking and everything else. And what that's enabled me to do is to get massive insights into what problems are with small business owners. And one of the big things I saw was pricing services. People just didn't know how to price their services properly. And most people kind of go, okay, my competitor's charging this, I'll charge this, and that's how I kind of determine my price. And then they find they're not making any money, because you know what, your competitor probably wasn't charging the right price in the first place.  And this happens all the time, unfortunately. And so I've developed things in different spaces. So things like website briefs and SEO and that I've got involved in because a lot of people are being ripped off. And as I said to people when I spoke in Sydney about a different topic, the thing is you guys are here because you're part of a community. You have genuine concern for your customers. And a lot of the people that I see that are doing the shonky things and the wrong things and why I started my business aren't actually the people that are here. So that's great to see. So I used to work in corporate many years ago for my sins and I do have things like a Masters of Applied Finance, but I don't really tell many people that. So for a pricing conversation, I usually do.  How many people here are from New South Wales? A few of you, over this side, mainly. If you're in New South Wales and haven't used the service, you get four hours of business advice fully subsidized by the New South Wales government. And if you're not in New South Wales, you don't miss out. So do check out business.gov.au slash assistance and check out what's available in your area because people complain the government does nothing for them but then they don't utilize the services that are available for them. So make sure you use it for yourselves but also get your clients to use it, particularly clients that come to you for a web design service and they're not ready. They still don't know what their mission is. They still don't even know what services they're offering or what products they're offering. They haven't sorted that out. Flick them to these sort of services first.  I said click or not going. Okay, what are the common pricing issues? For people that are doing things that you're not sure how long something takes, how long does it take to put a website together? It can vary, right, depending on how much. Copy you get, how much content is going on the site. So how long a job is can vary quite greatly. Creatives, how many people are also graphic designers here? Can you just sit down? If I tell you sit down right here right now and design me a logo, can you do that? No, you need time to be creative. Sometimes it will, literally it will come to you in two seconds flat and you'll have the best idea straight away. But I'll tell you now, it's probably not the best idea to share that idea straight away because otherwise theoretically, right, you took five minutes to design that logo. So how much am I gonna pay you? Five minutes. So this is one of the issues that comes up with pricing. Does time equal money? It's an interesting thought. How do we quote therefore hourly rates? Well, in that scenario, definitely you don't wanna be quoting an hourly rate. So maybe you're quoting an outcome. Maybe you're quoting some packages, which we're gonna talk about today. Sticking by your price. How many people say, right, my price for this is $3,000? And the person says, love you, love your work, but $3,000? Not really my budget. How about I give you two and a half thousand dollars for that? Now, if you're pretty new, what do you usually say? Sure, no problems, I can do that. But now what have you told your client? How much are you worth? Are you worth $3,000? Or are you worth two and a half thousand dollars? So if we're gonna trade our price for something, we've gotta have them give away something. So be careful of that. Justifying the value is not just justifying the value to the client. It's actually justifying the value to yourselves. How many of you here, honestly, don't really think you're worth what you charge? It's interesting. Nobody has imposed the syndrome? Yeah. So there's a lot of people that actually don't do it. Yes, you probably are.  There's a lot of people that have this. And one of the examples of this was a hairdresser. And I listened to her, she was talking on the phone and she was going blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the person said, how much is it? And she goes, $70. She muffled it, she looked down because she didn't own the price. This was $70 for a haircut and parameter in a salon. And I'm like, God, $70 is cheap for that anyway. But in her mind, she was a Blue Mountain's mobile hairdresser. And for her, $70 seemed excessively expensive. So she didn't believe it herself. She doesn't believe it herself.  So really think about this. And the last thing is really about making money, not making work. Too many people I see are busy, busy, busy and they don't take a cent. I was speaking to a guy last week. He told me his first year he made 100,000 sales, second year 200,000, third year 350,000 and stole the year to finish. And he's not taking any money for himself. That is not good. So why is pricing important? Again, another live example. This was ridiculous. And I will add, this guy used to be an accountant.  Okay, cause you're gonna look at this and go, what? $100 was what he was charging for this item. He was buying the item wholesale at $85. Those of us who went to Ben's talking about, well no, that's far off what we should be paying for a wholesale price. Shipping was included. So it was about $10 for the shipping and the packing cost. So now we're up to $95. So he's making $5 growth profit. Is he really? No. Okay, so I haven't told you the part of the story here. He drives a three hour round trip to buy that $85 item. How much is petrol this turnage? Probably about 50 bucks for a three hour drive. 50 bucks of petrol plus his labor. Now this guy wanted me to help him with his marketing. And you know what? Cause I have ethics, I said, sorry mate, I am not helping you with your marketing. If I help you with your marketing, you are going to go under. Even further and faster than you're going now. So this is why pricing is so important. And I use that example cause it's so obvious. But the thing is probably what a lot of people here are doing is very similar, just on a smaller scale. And some of the comments that were made earlier today for instance, it's not a bad thing to be making profit. It's a good thing to be making profit. It's a good thing to be paying tax. And a lot of people are about avoiding tax. But if you're paying tax, you're making money. That's a good thing. Why is my clicker not working? It's frozen, uh-oh. This isn't good. Things to scream was not working, playing nice. Oh, there we are. Okay. So pricing services is very similar to pricing products cause that's the other thing I hear regularly. But pricing a product is so easy, pricing a service is so hard. Honestly, they're basically the same. Remember the packages you offer are basically the products that you offer. And your packages should contain what are called productized services, which we'll go into. So you should always have, but wait, there's more. People want more value, so give them more value. When you're communicating value, people buy. So remember, we're not trying to sell to people. We actually want people to want to buy from us. They want to buy if you do these things. You solve their problem, you make them feel good. You give them a result that they're after.  And the price is acceptable to them. It doesn't have to be the cheapest, it doesn't have to be the budget rate, but it has to be acceptable. This is gonna be fun today if this is gonna keep playing out. Sorry about this guys, we have technical difficulties. Okay, clients are not all the same. How many people deal with big-end corporates? It's part of what they do. A few of you, and you also deal with small businesses. Do you charge the same price to a small business as a big corporate? No, they're different. So when you're deciding who your ideal clients are, remember they do have different price points. Someone that spends $100 on a website, $1,000, $10,000, $100,000, they're different people. Decide who you want to service and really concentrate on doing the right thing by then. Remember, once you have social proof, awards, your reputation's built, Tony Robbins for instance, he can command a much higher price. But when you don't have that proof, you're much lower. So determining price, and the reason I have a picture of a cushion here is when I do this as a two and a half hour workshop, what I do is we actually give people an exercise to do and they price the cushion. Because what I say is the seven pieces that make up the actual cushion, the fabrics, the trim, the insert and all that stuff, we take that out of the picture and what's left is pretty much exactly what you do when you're pricing a service. It's left with the labor and the overheads and the other costs that are involved. So what we do is go through these and I'm not going to go through these in detail, I'm really skipping over this so we can get the packaging part. But I do have some separate training available on this that you can sign up to later, which is free, if you want to understand more about calculating your hourly rate. So, tax was mentioned by Ben earlier, 100%. If you're collecting GST, make sure you put it aside straight away. It's not your money. If you pay employees, put aside their PYG and they're super immediately, even though you may not pay it immediately, because it's not your money, it's spent already. Put also money aside for your end of your tax bill because as I said, you want to be making money and therefore we want to be paying tax. The overhead and fixed costs. And when I get people to do this cushion exercise, what I get them to do is to look at it from two perspectives, sole traders making the cushion themselves in house and a mire or a spotlight making that cushion. And the thing is, think about big business when big business makes something. So if I get a mire and buy a cushion, I'm not just buying the cushion. I'm buying sales staff salaries. I'm buying chief executive salaries. I'm buying board of director. I'm buying profits if they make any. I'm buying everything. I'm buying cleaning products. I'm buying racks. I'm buying rent. I'm buying everything. Do we think twice about it? Nah. So why in small business do we have this really bad habit of going, okay, I think that web design part is gonna take four hours to do, but I don't think a customer's gonna pay that much. So you know what? I'll knock that down to two hours because I think they'll pay that. You haven't allowed for admin time, marketing time, travel time, all these other bits of time that you are consuming for that customer. You're actually losing out. You're not charging your overheads. So when you actually do this exercise and work through it and at the very end, after this, you can look when you get the slide pack, you'll see there is a bit about the cushion thing. Have a look at it because it is really interesting. And the reason I get people to do a cushion rather than a service is because you think objectively, because otherwise we'd be far too subjective. We think about our businesses and what we do as a service provider. Whereas you think about a cushion, you're totally looking at it from a different perspective. So even if you don't make sales, these sort of overheads have to be paid. Things like insurance, buying your laptop, buying your software and themes and things you have to buy, it's all essential. Before you made one sale, you've had to buy all that stuff. You also have the other costs that are optional, things like paying for advisors, coming to WordCamp, these are optional things. They're good things, but they're optional things. And marketing, I'm not saying it's optional, I'm just saying you can go for low cost options rather than expensive one. There is an NAB breakeven calculator that you can work through. And again, that's something that would go through in the big version of this. Variable costs are the things that are directly related to the individual sale. So if you're doing a web design for a customer, how much is directly related just to that? The overheads, though, are all the other costs, the costs of running your business. So the profit in you, this is the most forgotten about part. You need to pay yourself as an employee if you're the web designer, but you also need to pay yourself as the business owner, as the marketer, as the admin person. Because guess what, if I outsource those roles, I have to pay for those. So why am I not paying for myself to be in those roles? We have this mentality, it's not chargeable to the client. It is chargeable to the client, otherwise our business simply won't exist. Go back to business. Big business we pay for everything. We've got to change our mentality. The profit, Ben mentioned this morning, 20% target for profit. But make sure you do allow profit. Profit allows us to do things like grow our business, reinvest in our business. If we don't put profit in there, we actually will end up eventually suffering. And you can benchmark. So people like Business Connect have access to actual benchmarks to say what your industry profit margins and that are. But the ATO also has some basic benchmarks on their website too. The biggest increase you can make in profit is by raising your prices. Because your prices are the top line. Expenses, reducing expenses will save you and make you profit, but it won't make you as much. Because expenses should only be a percentage of your sales. Unless you like that clown earlier with this $100 product. In that case, he would have been better off cutting expenses. So the acceptable pricing range. Good old Goldilocks, right? We need to be in the range. So the green bar is the acceptable range. If we go too low, people won't pay. This was a real example. 200 blogs for $500. Now this lady, I said to her, like seriously, what are you doing? And she's like, oh, each blog going to take me seven minutes. Even if it took seven minutes, that is not a good alley rate. But seriously, I think we can work out why she's charging that, because the quality is crap. So we get dubious about the quality when things are too cheap. If it's too high, there's too many other alternatives that we can go to. So you've got to be within the acceptable range. So you need to work out your bottom-up pricing, but you also need to fit in with your market, too, because they just won't go for you if you're not in that range. Why don't we quote alley rates? How many people here quote alley rates? Is all or part of what you do. Maybe there's extras and stuff. OK, a few of you. There's a few reasons why not. For a start, people don't know how long a job will take. If they know it's going to take them four hours to write a blog and they think it's going to take you four hours, but you're actually only going to take an hour. They're actually going to go four times whatever you quoted for an alley rate. So be careful about that. You've done a lifetime of training and experience to get to that one hour, so what's an hour really worth you? As I said before with the five-minute logo idea, time is punished, alley rate punishes speed. Yet we pay for expedited shipping. We pay to get things quicker. So it's actually a really interesting thing to look at. It's about relative risk. I'd rather pay someone that I know is going to do a good job and do it once than pay someone that's terrible and have to do it three or four times. And I get a lot of clients doing that. This is a video you can watch later, and there's some really good key messages in the video because it is a long video. So if you only want to watch those key bits, just watch those four sections on it. OK, the packaging. So this is how we get away from our alley rates and things. So for a start, go back to what I said before about how we get people to buy from us. Think about the emotional benefits. We go to a personal trainer or something. The benefit might be losing weight, might be losing 10 kilos, but what emotional benefit do we get out of that? We can chase our children around the backyard comfortably. We can go climbing mountain, whatever, mountain Everest, whatever. We can do all these things. They give us an emotional benefit. They make us feel good. They make us feel relieved. They make us feel something. Think about what you communicate to your customers. What unique selling points do you have? What are you different about from your peers? Although we can use pain points, people like Kate yesterday talked about pain points and agitating them, totally agree, but get them away from the pain quickly. Make sure your solution is a positive solution. And make sure it is a solution to their problem and really meets their goals or their results that they're after. Another lock up. Do, do, do, do. Come on, come on. OK, so comparisonitis is the other issue with our alley rates. If I say to someone, I'm charging you $150 an hour and they earn $30 an hour, they automatically start going, but wait a minute, I earn $30 an hour. I've got to work five hours to pay for your 150. But the thing is your 150 isn't an hourly rate because that employee gets paid to turn up from 10 to two, whereas if you do work for a client, you're only paying for two hours. It's very different. As we said before, penalizes efficiency and expertise. So instead, what we want to do is explain the service and include value add offers. So what we're going to use is a three tier pricing system and we're going to combine products and services. So even though you might go by only offer services, I can trust me, we can turn your services into products. These are products you can put on your website. You can use WooCommerce to make a store and sell things. They could be digital downloads, they could be online courses, they could be all sorts of things. So we can sell them individually, but we can also package them up, which is what we want to do. So we have three tiers. Tier one is typically at their budget level and is the bronze package, okay? We don't have to call them boring names like Bronze or Gold, but we start off with this idea. Tier two, more perceived value for the client, but not more time, and this is imperative. Tier, sorry, sorry, tier one, sorry, scrub that. Tier one is we're doing the time savers. Tier two, we are adding more value, we are, sorry, not more time. Tier three is only where we increase more time. Okay, so here we have the bronze, silver, gold packages. The perceived value is the total outside boxes, okay? So that's what the client perceives that they're getting. Okay, so they want that big outside box. So their value that they perceive is always more than something costs. The cost to us is those little orange boxes at the bottom. What you will notice is that the bronze and silver packages are almost identical in size of cost. And that is because I'm not adding more time to my silver package. I'm only adding productized services. So I'm adding things which we've created once and we can put in that package many times over, but the things that we're saving, we'll see in a second. The reason the gold one has more cost is because it's more of our time. So the key thing with this is the bronze and silver have different amounts of profit. So we had the same amount of cost, but I've got more profit in the silver. And the gold is only very similar to the silver. So therefore our sweet spot becomes the silver one. Okay, so in the bronze package, what are you trying to do with the bronze package? These are things that help you sell the product. They help it just be more than just your hourly rate. So just the thing that's obvious. So the obvious thing is I'm getting a website. I'm getting a four page website. That's the obvious thing. But what things could you chuck in there that would have value to the client, but would save you time? So think about those really annoying time TDS questions that you get. So for web designers and things, how do I load that blog onto my website again? And it's the 15th time they've asked you the same question. I'm sure we've all had some of those. Things like variations, don't give them lots and lots of options. Only give them a couple of choices at this level. So at the bronze level, we're really restricting decisions because decisions take time. So we try to save time. With the web design space, what are the type of things that we could save time? So any TDS questions, any how-to's, instructions, anything that's a bit fiddly that you might have to use visual aids because you can't talk about that over the phone. These are some examples of what you could do for your time savers as a web designer. A website brief document or e-book because it's gonna speed up your time if you get a better brief to start. How to edit the text, how to add a photo, how to insert a blog. And a checklist of items they need for their site. Get them prepared in advance. These will save you time. And you've created those things once because they're very minimal cost you to create. The silver. These are things we're gonna create to sell over and over and over again. But we could also add things like more payment options. They're things that don't really cost us any more time but it may be benefit to the client. Could be the level of inclusions or your scope of suppliers. It could be the choice of themes or whatever you're giving them depending on how you do your construction or your websites. So the type of things you can do in here are things like productized services. You can sell these on your site too and we'll show an example in a second. Addresses their pain points and their questions genuinely provides them value. It's not something they can just grab off the internet really easily. And the FOMO, the fear of missing out. So they'll upgrade because they don't wanna miss out. So things that you could offer here is a web designer. You could do a little e-book explaining what pages should you have on your website. Explain to them how to do keyword research. Get them to do their own keyword research rather than you having to do it. So your website will offer basic SEO regardless of them paying for it or not. How to create 100 blog ideas. Again, that could be a little course or a little e-book. Present them as videos, e-books, short online courses, blogs, whatever. So the thing is we've increased our costs slightly because we've had to create these things. But one of these things for instance might take a day to complete. But if you can then have it for sale on your website, you can sell it over and over again. Etsy. People are familiar with Etsy as handmade items. Etsy also sell digital downloads. So you could actually put your product there and potentially get a whole new audience. So these things are great because you can genuinely say these have X value because they actually do. They're actually available on your website. But then in addition, you're putting them as part of this package. So the thing is by somebody buying a silver package over the bronze, you haven't spent any more time, no more time, but you've made more money. So I did this with resumes in a cover letter template package. I sold them the template package. So they'd buy that and I could sell that over and over again. I could sell that hundreds of times. But it saved me going through tedious, boring phone calls of when you're doing a cover letter. It was just so dull. So think about what's dull and things. What's a value to the client that you can get rid of? Only in the gold package do we add more time. Only in this one. We might give them greater choices, greater selection, again, because decision making takes time. It's about giving more consult time, more emails, more to and fro, but we make sure we charge accordingly for that time. So what are some of the challenges? The bit I mentioned earlier about trying to work out all your overheads, it's really hard to work out, well, how many sales am I making in the year to therefore allocate the overheads to? And that can be a really tricky one. And that's what my extra training that you can use covers. So if you have one service, you have multiple service, do you have lead generators? How are they counted? Earlier I mentioned the example of paying $3,000 for something and the person's saying, I want to pay $2,500. How do we deal with that? We only reduce our cost if they are trading something out. So what's the triangle? The cost triangle is reflected by the quality, the scope, and the time and timeframe we're completing it in. So do consider if you're going to cut something, one thing has to go, something in your scope goes, something of your quality goes. So if you were a fence builder, for instance, you could use a lower grade of timber. But consider your values. If you are selling yourself as a high quality provider, you're not going to want to drop your quality. There's only a certain part that you can drop. So the idea being, though, if we drop our quality, then we can reduce the cost. But there was a trade-off. And we'd be clear about the trade-off. When we put it in our invoice or our quote, we say, was this, now it's this because of these reasons. So that way if they come back to you, they're not expecting to get that same price again. They know that they lost something was traded for that. Scope creep. How many of us have this issue? Everyone, right? If the customer wants something extra, charge them for it. It's simple. How do we make sure that happens? Be very clear from the start. Make sure you manage the expectations. Be crystal clear. This is what your website includes. This, many pages, and that's it. Includes the button being here, not moving up and down the page. If you want that, it's extra. Think about the discussions you're having with people and make sure that those things are included in here. So be crystal clear in your agreement and that way you will not have fights with your customers later. As I've already said, creatives need to be in the zone. Sometimes creatives have problems with their decision and that's when you give the client too many options. It's actually you making the problem, not the client. I had an example of perfectionism. It was an interior designer. And the client was perfectly happy signing off but she wasn't. She didn't want to sign off. I'm like, for God's sake, she's a client's happy. Just take it and move on. Sometimes we're going to do that. And the other one that can be difficult for creatives costs a quote and can actually take quite a long time. So to go back again, qualify those clients. Who are your ideal clients? Not everyone is your ideal client. Are they genuinely interested? Do they have genuine urgency to get this job done? We don't want someone that's in the next year I want a website. We want to know they want it in the next three months or whatever we're going to do. So be friendly with the person. Push them a little bit but don't cross the line. Be careful about how far we prod someone. Be careful with some of the questions we ask. I know some people don't like asking questions like what's your budget because they think that the person's going to think, oh, you're just going to give me something at my budget even though you would have done it for half the price. So just think about how you can rephrase that to get that across the line because it's really important. Things like changing your processes. There may be things that you're doing that are taking up too much time. We can be more efficient, more productive than we save time and money. So one of the things was mentioned earlier by Emma was about how she creates a base site. She then copies across for all her clients. So she set up all that stuff in the background. All those, you know, put the word fence and updraft and all that are already in there. I thought that's really clever. Why waste that time setting that up each time? Because that might be an hour every time that you save. You can still charge a client, but you save it personally. So I would suggest doing time logs for a two-week period, a normal two-week period, as you measure every 15 minutes what you do.  If you're repeating stuff, you need to fix it. I've talked about restricting choices and about perfectionism. So we're going to talk about that again. So that is it. So we talked about pricing and packaging. Determining your price, make sure you think about everything that goes into your price. Don't sell yourself short. Too many people do this. Make sure you're including your owner time, your profit. Make sure you're really thinking about this. Think about your three tiers. What could you do to put in that bronze time saving tier where it looks like you're adding value to the client, but really you're adding value to yourself because you're saving yourself so much time. The silver is what value adds can you put in there? Think about that. And the gold is the only one you should be adding more time in. And I can guarantee you there's a lot of people in this room that are giving people the gold package at the bronze price. So think about it. Calculating your time, do the time log exercise, and really work out how you can communicate your value. The last thing I will say though is just remember on your website you do need to have at least one price. Okay, one price. It doesn't have to be all of your prices, but people need to have an indication of where you fit. Think about when you go looking for a service. If you go on there and there's no price, particularly if they've got a beautiful website and it makes them look super professional, what do you automatically think? Their prices are up there, or they're too expensive for me. So just remember that you need to have some indication of price on your website somewhere. So I would suggest that you review your costs and pricing, review your value proposition and your tiers and your peers and make sure that you fit in with them and test your new pricing out, see how you go. And that is that. Thank you.