All right. It looks like everyone's here. We can get started. And streaming. Nope. Not yet. Oh, no, we're going to be just, it just kicked in. Great. All right. Thanks. And welcome everyone to the November 1st meeting of the art city of Santa Rosa art and public places committee. Pursuant to government code section 4953. And the recommendation of the health officer of the county of Sonoma art and public places committee members will be participating in this meeting via zoom webinar. Members of the public can participate in the meeting virtually through the zoom link. The public accessing the meeting through zoom will be able to provide public comment on agenda item at the time the agenda item is discussed during the art and public places committee discussion. The city has postponed many non essential meetings until further notice we appreciate your patience, patience and willingness to protect the health and wellness of our community. If you have any questions you can contact our, our meeting recorder Eileen Cleary and member matters on the agenda maybe taken out of order and recording secretary do you have any other items to add for how the public can participate today. Yes, members of the public wishing to speak during item three public comment or during any of the schedule items will be able to do so by utilizing the raised hand feature, or by pressing star nine on their phone, they will then be given the ability to address the committee. Thanks. Great. Thank you, Eileen. At this time, I would like our recording secretary to please take roll call. Chair Kiefer. Present. Vice chair Jones Carter. Member Baumgartner. Present. Member as Darian. Present. Member Fuentes. Present. Member Nathanson. Present. Let the record record that all members are present. Moving on to number three public comments. This is the time when any person may address matters not listed on the agenda, which are within the subject matter of the jurisdiction. The public may comment on agenda items when the item is called. If you wish to make a comment via zoom, please raise your hand. If you are dialing in via telephone, please dial star nine. Each speaker is allowed three minutes. We have any public comments at this time. We do not have any raised hands at this time, nor do we have any emails or voicemails for this meeting. Okay, thank you. Item four approval of minutes. Today we are reviewing two meeting minutes for approval. The October 4 meeting minutes and the October 18 special meeting minutes. And the October 4 meeting minutes. And the October 4 meeting minutes. And the October 4 meeting minutes. Copy of the meeting minutes. Are there any changes or corrections? Seeing none. Would someone like to make a motion to approve? I'll make a motion to approve, but I just want to make sure what if I do make a motion approved, but do they have to be two different motions or could I approve both in one. Motion. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I mean, Technically because we have the most of the separate line items. Okay. Okay. Then I will go ahead and do the October 4 ones first. And I'd like to make a motion to approve those as submitted as written. Second. And then. Go. And then we just need to vote. So. Yes. Please raise your hand. If you choose to agree. All members have approved the meeting minutes for October 10. Sorry. October 4. Okay. Great. Would anyone like to make a motion to approve the October 18th meeting minutes. Is there a second. I'll second motion to approve those as submitted. As written. All right. And then we can place a vote. All those in favor. Raise your hand. Okay. I just want to mark that Kristen and Nathan were absent from that meeting. So actually shouldn't vote on the October 18th minutes. I will make a note of that. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Now moving on to. Our scheduled items. Item 5.1. Art and public places committee ad hoc task force discussion. The agenda item is recommended for. Recommended discussion action. Thank you, Kristen. I'll just kick off a little bit of information before we dive into the discussion to frame. The general idea with this agenda item. There is no action requested. So no motion. Need to be made today regarding this. It's really an open conversation or the committee to have regarding. The ad hoc task forces that are current with the committee. And to, you know, potentially share how some of the work that has been going on with those overlaps with each other with the different groups. And talk about maybe what can be helpful for each group to progress on some of the assigned work areas. So it's really meant to be a conversation and a discussion. And ask questions and figure out if there's a better way to do this. So just a reminder. That the current task forces are one diversity, equity, inclusion, and access task force. Which is Lisa and Anne. And there are four kind of work areas or tasks under that task force. Which were on that document that was reviewed at the, I think it was back in April. The April in our public places committee meeting. I can put those back up on the screen. I can share my screen if that would be helpful to look at those. As we start this conversation, but for now I won't. Rattle them off. And then the second to task force number two is engagement. And that is. Jeff and Melanie. And then the third. Task force is project development. And that is Kristen and Nathan. And so as I've met with the different task forces, there's been, I think a lot of questions on figuring out how. Task forces really are function should function in this way. And what would be most effective to move some of the. Tasks under these groups forward. But I've, I've, but I've also heard some kind of fresh, maybe frustration or just concern that there's some overlapping. Areas that have to do with all three of the task forces, such as engagement. That kind of touches on, on all of them as well as. Kind of what programming or, or projects are coming out of some of the ideas. And potentially there's others too. So I just wanted to put this item on the agenda as a way for all of the task forces to have a conversation with each other since. By nature of, of why we form small task forces in this way. To limit the members to two. So that there are a quorum, right. So we can't, you can't really talk to each other unless it's published on an agenda. So that's why we are having this meeting to encourage a little bit more of a broader conversation about how it's going with each task force. What are some of the overlapping areas that we can help each other with. And really my question to the group is just what would be helpful in terms of a discussion. For each task force to progress on your assigned work areas. So I'll just stop there. And then I'm happy to put up that document on the screen. To review. Those areas if that would be helpful. Otherwise. Happy to just let someone ask questions or share your thoughts. If you want to share your screen, I think. Ann and I were both nodding our heads. That would be very helpful. Okay. We'll do. Yeah. Okay. Coming up. All right. I have that up. Can I. Is that okay if I speak or is just someone else? Yes, please. Please. Go ahead. All right. Here, hold on one second. You got me. You put that up and I already had notes on mine, but that's fine. So. Like they said before. Like. Tom mentioned before about the overlap and I agree. So the few conversations I did have with groups and groups and people who are. Organizations. Were. Nobody really knew that we were even accessible and I don't want that to be that way anymore. And I want us to be accessible and how do I do that? I'm not all the way sure and positive. You know, do I need to be. Do we, you know, Do we need to be accessible and how do I do that? And I myself need to be more visible. In certain events or certain places and show our faces. And to show that art in public places does exist. And we're here for you. I mean, I. I need some ideas. I mean, I have some ideas and stuff and look, but I mean, if other people have, you know, ideas and things that have worked for them. And I think we need to be able to do that.  And, but that is also sometimes that can overlap with the engagement task force too, because they're going to reach out to people. So this is something we, I don't know if we could work together. Well, because we can't, there's only certain amount of people you can work together, but we need to really probably. You know, cause it is somewhat vague right now. We have ideas of what we want to do, but we just don't, the steps are not there yet. And I think we need to structure, a little more structured guide or just, just a discussion here to give us, you know, more detailed outline. Anyone. Well, I'll jump in. So in our task force meeting, it came up really early in the conversation. About, but I had noticed that in our previous meeting, talking about this. Lisa, I think you were the one who. Sort of jumped in and said. You, that, that you were community engagement and was like, oh no, but that's right. You're, you're diversity. I mean, I think for, for both of our task forces, there is a little bit of confusion because community engagement. Definitely is about. Trying to address diversity, equity, inclusion, and access issues. And it also definitely touches on project development. And one of the things we, we discussed early on, like in our very first meeting. Was that. The museum of Noma County has a community engagement. Strategic goal and the committee that's working on it. I'm also in the community engagement. Subcommittee for the. Unum project, a courthouse square. Public art project that's currently underway. And so there are definitely these overlaps. So I think this is the time when we can talk about how. We want to either. Merge what we're doing. Or acknowledge the overlaps. And then kind of divide up who's doing what. Because. I feel a little bit confused about what we should be actually. Doing as we move forward. And what we're trying to accomplish through whatever those. Discussions and activities might be. No, I agree. I agree with you there. I think then it's definitely, we should have a more specific outline of. What we want to do and how do we want to do it and pick people. Okay. You need to do this. You need to do that. And I'll take care of that. And you can't do that until I get this. And once I do get this. I can report back to you. I mean, that's it. When I look over this and look what needs to be done. That's my perspective. What I'm getting from here. There's some things on here that you really can't move forward unless you have some other things from that, probably another group needs to do. I don't. I'm working on a couple of different projects that. I think are related to these things, but they're. I don't know. I mean, they're at this point, they're independently undertaken. Things in one of them is a North Bay iteration of the other places, art fair, which is a. An art fair of. Art is. An alternative art spaces that has been running in LA for the last four years. So that'll happen in March. It'll be about 25 different booths. We're figuring out where that's going to happen. But that, I don't, you know, that could be an opportunity to sort of workshop some of. some sort of lines of flight within this, within the questions that we're negotiating around these things. And the other is that sort of long deferred presentation on the history of socially engaged art practices by Ben Kinmore. And that'll happen, I think in December, we're just fixing a date. But just as something in the background, that might be an opportunity for some conversations. Well, I can just chime in a little bit that I think a couple of things to remind the whole group in how the parameters of how you can kind of operate, it sounds like there's some question about that, that maybe some clarity would be helpful. And then also, you know, like what steps each group can take to bring something forward. So I don't know, Lisa, your questions and Jeff, your questions kind of made me feel like that, that kind of input would be helpful. So I mean, I can share and kind of reiterate certain things that I think I've talked to each group about as I've met with you all, that, you know, the bullet points that are on this document were a starting point for each group with specific things that were identified in our strategic plan. And so whatever work the subcommittee or the task forces could do in these areas would help implement the strategies that we developed in that process that are in that plan. Obviously, some are more nebulous than others, right? And are going to take a different approach than maybe just having meetings or drafting out a proposal for something. But I think, you know, each task force should feel empowered that you can create your own strategies and your own procedures, your own outlines for how you feel like some of these areas should be tackled. And if that includes work with other groups in the city or other staff input or, you know, joint meetings like this where all the task forces can discuss together that those are possible. And that you also all as you did at the last meeting, the October 4th meeting, you know, asked to have items brought to the agenda, right? So in that item on our standing agenda, there's the ability to talk about future potential future agenda items, but also to make a motion to put an item on an agenda. So I think that just keeping those kind of frameworks in mind that that's kind of the system that allows some things to be brought forward, I think is helpful in this case. But you know, if there are other things that are still needed in order to get more clarity, I think that that, you know, that would be helpful to know so that I can provide as much as many resources as I can for you. So one thing strikes me and that is if we're talking about all three of these task force areas and the bullet points that are listed here. In my work with the committee that's overseeing the UNUM project, that I mean, that's really present and happening and made decisions. And now there's there's public input for all of these words that can be included. So there's been an effort to kind of hit, hit actually quite a few of these bullet points. And so the Community Engagement Committee has a diversity component. It's really, it really was tasked with trying to be as inclusive as possible. And there's there's, you know, all kinds of discussion about what are the words that are included? And how does that engage the whole process of getting people the words into the project? That's about community engagement. And although it's not a project being developed, it's a project that has been developed, and it's actually happening. So one of the things that strikes me is that as we are talking about future projects and what we see as our role in identifying projects, whether they be permanent or temporary, and how we frame those projects for the community, whether it's really local to Santa Rosa, regional to Sonoma County or broader based, I wonder if we should really be looking specifically at the work of project development as being informed by the other two areas, the diversity, equity, inclusion area and engagement in terms of what the projects are and how they're developed and how we how we reach out to the community and make those projects feel relevant and real to our community. I'm just thinking about practical application as opposed to sort of a more theoretical approach. Does that make sense? Everybody's so quiet. No, I think it does make sense. There's definitely some good points there. So when I was looking at mine and what are our priorities and stuff like, for instance, the first one is says partner and build stronger relationships with culturally diverse. So when I'm reaching out to these organizations, individuals or people and trying to establish a stronger relationship with them, I know that the engagement tax force, they were looking to do that or might be doing that too with others. But when I'm supposed to make my presence known, myself and Anne, we're supposed to make our presence different from whatever, I was looking at Member Nathanson. In Melanie, they probably also have been talking to these people or reaching out to these people. That part would be redundant. But so that we need to take a different approach or it's just like that's where I think we need to set specific guidelines. I'm taking on this and making myself present because if we're both going to the same organization but we both have different goals or different outlines and different bullet points on what we're supposed to do, that I don't know if that would work rather than myself and Anne go after a certain organization and have this discussion and we're here for you or we want to be accessible to you and try to build that relationship. So do you understand what I'm saying here? I think we're going to be able to add something. This is Reisa. I think the impetus behind this is to engage the committee in a different way and not to engage the committee, but for the committee to be engaged in a different way, to take a more active role in shaping some of these things. When I look at diversity, equity, inclusion, access, task force, that is how do we operate? Do we need to change policies and programs or are we transparent? Are we considering the things that the community at large wants us to consider when we're operating our program? Where are their opportunities and how does that relate? Engagement feels a little bit different in terms of how are we engaging? Are we engaging the community broadly? Do they understand how open this is that we are open to their input that might affect project development or something like this? So there are some slight nuances between these. What do we need to change to do better? What do we need to do to engage? And then that has practical implications on project development, for example. So that might be a way to look at it, but I think the biggest point and I think you made this in the beginning is your ability to decide what that is and to understand sort of like the general scope of what we're doing, of what engagement is and how does that drive and advance the program? And I don't know if I misunderstood anything, if I'm answering something that you've already answered, but that's what I was thinking when you were speaking. Hi, Marisa. Thanks for jumping in and I think that does help at clarity. What it tells me is that what I'm, the way I'm kind of thinking of it, is really more practical application for the way, like Marisa just said, the way we operate. So maybe the thing that needs to happen is that each one of our task forces provides a bit more direction relative to all of its bullet points so that the project development that happens out of this committee and the projects that we choose to support and whether we're putting out an RFP or we're working on budgets, but we're always thinking about what we're trying to accomplish in terms of the diversity and equity inclusion goals, the engagement, the community engagement aspects. One of the things I'd really love for us to dig into as a group rather than individually as these separate task forces and to Tara's point, the fact that we have to put it on an agenda and really have it be officially sanctioned as a discussion amongst all of us, but when we're looking at our strategic planning and we're planning out what are the projects that we're working on that we're supporting that we're trying to see happen in the city that we're really consciously aware of all of these goals and that we start to really think about what projects might be temporary, what projects are permanent and what we're really trying to accomplish with each project because we could really be encouraging a lot more sort of, I don't know, almost guerrilla art projects so you're getting neighborhoods really engaged with creating temporary projects. One of the conversations that's ongoing now between the museum and the Office of Community Engagement has to do with the Multicultural Roots project and our Sonoma County Stories project and so kind of merging our goals and working together to collect stories, but one of the things we haven't quite figured out is, well, is there a public art or public performative aspect of what we're doing as we're collecting stories, like how we're creating at the museum an exhibition but beyond the exhibition that we're creating, how do we share those stories? What is the public component of that? And Jeff, can I just hit on that? And going back to the DEIA task force, can we even define like who were the diversity and inclusion and equity element of it? Do we understand it? Or are we just doing like those things can be defined and you can even go back and say like the discussion you had around UNAM, you can go back and say why did we have that discussion? Well, because we don't actually have that DEIA because we don't trust that we understand what we're doing. So again, it's looking back and fixing, but looking forward and having a clear understanding or developing that clear understanding of when we say that there's DEI just because the Office of Community Engagement is doing it doesn't mean that necessarily their equity lens or their inclusivity or their like is their audience what our audience is? How do we do we know what our DEIA element is to compare it and to understand if it aligns with somebody else's? And I think I think that's where the foundational level to get to where you are where we have a lot of opportunities and that can be applied then moving forward. Can I add on that? I mean I so I understand it's you know we're trying to do the DEIA we're trying to do the operations and how we operate but you know we're going to create a set of specific criteria but to create this set of specific criteria we you know that's related to diversity and inclusion that they have on there. We need to get an idea of what the community's needs and wants are and so when I was reaching out and trying to find what those needs and wants we need to bring those back and relate and you know kind of develop based on those needs and wants and so I'm and then since that's what kind of I didn't want to overlap when I'm out there reaching out to people to see what their needs and wants or should how I communicate with the other groups to see what they have or their needs and wants so we can really create this you know this criteria and then we can go from there and once we do that would that be something that would go on to the project development so they would develop what you know we'd have this criteria and they would go ahead and develop the actions that need to be taken. I wouldn't say that that's kind of sequentially how they would go I understand the project development task force to kind of take more of a look at how public art is talked about and planned into a project as it's being developed so whether that's looking at the specific plan the general plan and evaluating how projects are currently created through the public art and private development process that I don't I don't know if that necessarily connects in that way but as in like getting feedback from another task force and implementing it but I think they do work together I don't think sequentially though you can hand off work to another task I don't know I hadn't I hadn't envisioned that. I would say that the project development task force right now is focused on a project of including artists in the general plan update and how art is considered in that plan but it is also listed under under that task force that that that group would work on public art project plan development for a variety of projects that this committee approves so and and just to be clear private art private development is not a part of of this area the committee doesn't really have oversight over over those projects so the so I guess I see the collaborative nature being like two-way information flow kind of I mean it's not like one goes to the other goes to the other it's more like each group is working on set specific tasks but there's collaboration and communication about how that work is getting done and and then I do think that once there is a set of specific criteria related to diversity and inclusion for projects that that is helpful for the project development task force because it will help inform the development of new projects and similarly with engagement so I feel like it all kind of goes multiple directions and it's not necessarily handy enough work to to one or another but just just for an example I think a concrete example might be helpful to kind of picture how this might work so just just an example the the diversity equity inclusion access access task force could create a set of criteria right that that's on there related to diversity and inclusion when developing new projects and improving projects so after the work that goes into that from you know gathering information from the community researching best practices of how other public art programs do that talking to other staff members I mean I know Sakura is on this call she's our equity and equal employment officer so I think that there's a lot of resource there as well so there's there's a there's a lot of information I think that could go into developing some criteria then that task force once they have a draft ready could bring that to the committee right we could have a committee meeting a discussion of that could be on the agenda so that there's you know a conversation when it's ready or finalized it could be adopted by the committee as as that something that would be a part of our projects from then on or considerations that need to be taken into account for every time we're starting a new project so then when the project development task force is working on developing you know new project plans that they then are incorporating that into that new plan right so that that's kind of like one example but it it there's there's a variety of those types of more concrete things that take a lot of you know collaborative work to draft but then it does come to the committee for discussion and ultimately some kind of adoption or approval and then it's implemented throughout how we do our programs I don't know if that's helpful it just feels like maybe just having something as an example no that actually was real helpful and that just gave me you know it's it helped a lot so Anne and I can just brainstorm on something specific for and try to just lay out our guidelines and our outlines and then just maybe discuss it with you then Tara or I can even reach out to a few other people and then we can just go from there it seemed like we were we are getting a little hung up on the fact that we might be um barting people with um questions or requests but I don't know we haven't done anything so it seems to me that we can maybe afford to go do a little overkill um to try and build up some um enthusiasm for what we're doing and you know if we're if the engagement task force is talking to a group and diversity and equity is talking to the same group I think it's okay because we have different topics that we want to find out information from them um but I think we just have to get going no I agree I agree with yeah I think wanted to acknowledge that Nathan has his hand up okay I'll jump in when you guys finish yeah I just think that we just have to get started and you know the only way we're going to get people to um engage with us is if we start building these relationships when we don't need anything from them so um that's my two cents but my question is just sort of following that if uh developing criteria with an eye towards issuing requests for proposal is or has to be the primary um kind of paradigm that we're operating like does everything have to be about a uh just like an open rfp or can we be initiating kind of targeted rfps or you know sort of reaching out to people directly as opposed to you know establishing criteria or sort of building a more robust bureaucratic structures to address these things like maybe there's a more immediate and direct way to get the ball rolling yeah that's a big question Nathan the current public art policy allows for a variety of types of uh artist solicitation approaches so um the one that we do use the most because of the fact that we're a public art program and there's a process that I think um the committee has uh operated under um in terms of like you know access to our funds being to consider you know a high priority consideration um which what you know is an open competition process that's what's most traditionally used but our policy does allow for direct selection if there's a if there's a kind of a framework or justification as to why we're doing it that way or an invitational selection where we're just inviting a few people um uh or the kind of open open call so I mean there's um or limited I think there's four so it's like open then there's like limited um open call and then there's like invitation only and then there's direct so um so that being said I think that that developing it would be interesting to look at developing a kind of some guidelines for how and when those different types of uh solicitation techniques should be used so that there's an understanding of why that decision's being made so I just want to throw out an idea here that's all right um you know if I'm going to work on some kind of criteria um for instance like um so if someone comes and asks you know I want to actually because I want to do a like a criteria for for if you see a wall if you see a wall somewhere let's say there in roseland there's a wall and there's a person that comes or a group an organization that says hey we would love um for this wall to beautify this wall and do you know a mural on it and the appc would come in and say this is how we can help you and we have those set of guidelines how we can assist them in getting that done and um I just think you know once they have that guidelines in front of them and we can actually give those to organizations and stuff this is how that works you see something you want to change it you want to beautify it let us help you do that is that something um that you know we could work on and get that going I mean how does that is that just you know sound like a good idea and then how you know you can promote that once we get that and you know vote on it and push it through yes so Lisa we I you know I think there's two I kind of am hearing two parts of your question more more literally we actually do have a mural process so if someone is asking that question we have a document to give them that outlines what they can do to get a project done um it is a situation where it depends on the property owner and like there's any city funding related to it and all of that but it's essentially a step by step thing for the community here you want to do a mural in some part of Santa Rosa here's something that will help you that that involves could or may not involve any art and public places committee approval but at least it's a place for them to start so they know the steps they would need to take but broader than that like more generally your question I think it's like if I think that that is a part of what the project development test force um one of their bullet points is to conduct an audit of our current process by which regular and temporary projects are approved and so um it's it that it kind of opens up a bigger question about um empowering and enabling the community to do more projects by removing kind of the the red tape or the hoops that they have to jump through to get our funding or to get our approval for a project that really we should just let them do and I think that that that having that discussion about what needs to be considered um in that second bullet point under project development that rapid response approval process right I think that that's that's that to me is a part of a larger kind of strategy discussion about what could be developed to support that area more so than just giving someone a document that shows them step by step how to do a mural well and my other question would be on this is because so many people don't know about this they have no clue what the process is and the people who we want to reach don't even they don't even know that this is available to them at all I mean when I mentioned this to a couple people they were just really they could do we could do that we can it's just I thought that was completely off limits it's so that's where how can we design it and make it and actually be a part of these this community different community organizations and get it out there to them and make them know we're here and this is what we have and these are the different options that we can assist you with I think that's part of what we're asking to come back to us and when you hear that then it's like oh gosh okay well let's start designing this what are they saying would be helpful to know um but you know I also want to call um Sakura uh out a little bit and see hey do you have anything to add like listening to this ideas and thoughts based on the conversation you're hearing um and any guidance that you have hi good afternoon I think that um in general I think ideally there wouldn't be a DEI subcommittee right because it would be embedded in your other two committees but until such point that you're clear what that means you kind of need to have a subgroup working on that clarifying it bringing it back to the larger group vetting it and to um member Puentes and vice chair Jones Carter you have to rebuild reestablish reinvest in relationships and that's simply time and attention and active listening and so I think that um while there might be some to your point earlier like somebody might go to the same groups some of it isn't about groups some of it's about individual relationship building and so those are you know you can define let the problem come to you versus worry about it on the front and let your work kind of roll and iteratively come back together where are you maybe um you know too much of the Venn diagram where you're overlapping too much and you worry that it's repetitive or you're confusing people and let that let that kind of become clear how much overlap there is because I agree that to several points that it's probably not visible enough in the community period so you can say it a couple times and people still won't hear you till like the seventh time what you do and how it's possible to participate in all of those things and then the follow-up generally the idea is there's engagement but you might need targeted engagement for people who that big net of engagement was not trapping that that you sent out an email blast or you posted something to online but the people the very diverse groups that you want engage whatever that mechanism traditionally has been isn't the most useful one and I my last point would be I think I think it's a very good idea member point this said I think this is what I thought I heard you say that go out and kind of do some listening sessions with some of our diverse artists or artist groups parts of the community who have felt either other or not part of this and see what they think the help they think they need the ways in which this can be supportive to their work and their efforts in the city and kind of iteratively come back to all the groups and share that information so everybody can ultimately bake it into what they're doing whatever subgroup and over time I think the DEI group probably will phase itself out you'll have markers you'll have success indicators you'll have values and criteria that you're looking for and everybody will use them but until such time that you've allowed yourself to create that you probably do need a small group that's going to dig in look for best practices in other place or next practices in other place do the research what are other cities or public art spaces doing kind of come back and share what you found and those active listening circles with some of our own community members about whether they felt engaged or ways that they felt othered and build again build that back into everybody's recipe for the for all the work they're doing so I guess I just say yes it's a lot of and no no no no you're giving me a lot of good information and what I need to do I mean there's there's a lot more than I need to do and but I do have a better direction right now and what what needs to be done so this is this is good this is actually great I definitely appreciate all the information that I'm getting and the feedback and I think it'll become so much clear when you engage in the conversations because people are going to tell you what they've enjoyed or what they've missed or how things felt in ways that probably didn't even we weren't even necessarily considering I mean there's so much in so much rich information comes from focus groups so one on one calls about hey this is what we're doing what are your thoughts and once people believe you're really listening and engaged and you're going to do something with that information I think you'll find out quite a lot and you know I just want to add on that you know this the strategic plan that we just went through I mean it's new we have the opportunity and the the whole you know one of the ideas around doing the strategic plan was to just re-envision who are we not just as a program but as a group so just keep in mind like it's not Tara and me and Sakura and the city is saying hey ABC this is what you're doing it is we need your help to understand how you want to move forward but how we can best iterate to a better program and a better committee and a better whatever it is so don't be stuck on what this document is either we have a strategic plan we know the vision and the goal there we're open I guess is what I want to remind you okay that's that's wonderful so so how I'm going to reach out to um to certain you know groups and people I want to get some more information on exactly what we have to offer our kind of rough guidelines of what we have and what we can do and how we are trying to assist and we are going to try to help and these are some ideas and this is open to you and everybody and it's we're we're trying we're trying to reach out we want to have your ideas we want to get what we want to see your visions and we want to get those visions you know actually become tangible tangible items and just basically to beautify our city by people you know within Santa Rosa and areas that have not had that much of attention put into them as they should have and so that's that's more of am I going in the right direction here I would just say that I don't think the focus is on what we have to offer them right now it's on what what do you think a public art program should do for you I have gotten that from people and they mostly you know the response of what they think is not stuff that I you know really wanted it just we were shut off and we were our own secret society group and that's the reaction I've got from so many different people because I've been trying to just ask and talk to people and have a conversation with just any event I go to and see artists and I just randomly have these conversations with anybody and everybody especially someone who's of color and from Santa Rosa I will automatically try to talk to them and it's just they really want to know well what what do you have I mean how are you trying to be open to us what are you trying to do and it's just like hey I want you know reach out to us do you what are your ideas what are your visions what would you like to see and how can we partner to make this happen well and you can always invite people tell me what that would mean to you so if they're like you're not showing up or I don't feel like you're inclusive explain to me what that would look like to you how what would we be doing if you felt like you belonged if you felt like these programs were for you if you like whatever it is kind of turn it you're always able to turn it around and be like help me understand what that means to you help give me some specific examples so I can take them back because it's our intent to do better we thought we were we now we know so now that we know better we're going to do better so help help me understand what that looks like so I when I when I share back what you said I'm doing it in a way that represents you well things like that okay okay cool okay that works well thank you Sakura I think this has been a really useful kind of repositioning of how to think about our involvement in our role within these task forces and again not to be tied to the language from the strategic plan but to be really thinking about how those guidelines can or the goals can train or encourage our own thought processes and how we communicate and yeah this is a new kind of role for our committee so it's something that we will need to grow with and kind of get our feet under ourselves but I did want to ask for public comment if we had any offer if we had anyone wanting to give a public comment at this point while we're still on this discussion topic we have no raise hands at this time thank you Eileen were any other committee members wanting to raise any other questions on this topic or did they feel that maybe if we sent out the strategic plan document again that might help with I know I haven't read it since I've written sections of it but not with the lens of my committee or my task force in the last few weeks and I think that might help with our kind of repositioning Tara if you wouldn't mind resending that or letting us know where we can find that that would be great sure I can do that and it looks like Sakura's hand is up so you want to great Sakura thanks I would just offer one more just like little information for starting on this journey one thing about healing past harms or historical kind of traumas is that people may share things with you that are not of your time not when you were there not of your doing nothing that you would have sanctioned and sometimes it's really hard not to get personally defensive and part about part of the process of healing is allowing them to speak their truth taking it in when the time is right and it might not even be the first conversation but if there's information that's incorrect getting clear for knowing that and then also finding a way to share back repeat it trends and themes over time so it's not just oh I heard from member Nathanson and he said but it's you know several people repeated over multiple conversations a b and c so people don't feel violated or don't feel like they share with you and then the whole world knew but and that you're kind of elevating themes and themes that can be baked into your practices your scoring your call for proposals all of those different things so while you're collecting individual information you report out themes thank you and good luck oh we're here we're here to support you yeah no I've never got defensive though and I'm with this and I'm sounds like I'm getting defensive right now but because I you know a lot of times I wasn't you know I wasn't there and I think I'm a committee member it's been in on here the longest um but you know I just want to listen to their frustrations just to make sure that it's just it there's if there's some way it cannot be repeated again right that's absolutely that's really my goal is to just okay how can we go about this differently great and I think that really sounds good and uh Sakura I don't mind that you called me out but I think it's actually uh no I know it's just an example I I I want to take this and we should all take this to motivate and inspire us to to listen and to let members of the community know that we really do want to listen and we want to digest the information we're getting and put it into practice and I guess that's what I was saying at the beginning of my comments is finding ways that we can take what we're trying to do on a theoretical level and apply it to the way that we operate and and the planning that we do and the decision-making process through which we are engaged and so I know this is not the only group the only organization that's tackling these challenges the museum's doing it I know LBC is doing it I know just about every non-profit arts and cultural organization in in the state if not the country is trying to go through this at some level or another I just want to pop in here I have to jump off for another meeting but I want to also just remind you one of the other things this program and committee does is support other organizations and so there are always opportunities for to identify other places where we can partner and we do not have to be the end will be all we want to support the the business aspect of our arts community so always good for that as well thank you all for allowing me to jump in and this was an amazing conversation and I apologize that I'll be leaving now but Sakura and Tara of course is staying on thanks all right all right all right at this time unless anyone wants to I feel good about our conversation so far about our task forces I would like to move on to item five point two and hear about youth rep a youth opportunity for a youth representative on the art and public places committee this time staff will provide an update on current efforts by the office of community engagement for youth participation on city boards committees commissions and facilitated discussion about possible options for this committee great thanks Kristen so I can provide a little bit of background and some history and then open up for discussion for this item I wanted to share that current efforts to kind of revisit some type of youth representation within city boards and commissions and committees is underway right now through the office of community engagement and they're at the beginning stages of developing a program with Latino service providers youth promoters program that will center around civic youth civic engagement and for those who don't know Latino service providers trains Latinx youth ages 16 to 25 years old to be mental health youth promoters via a structural structured paid internship program that gives them ample support and opportunities to present mental health education and resources through community conversations so the promoters engage the latinx community offer information Spanish and English and are culturally responsive the hope is that for the office of community engagement program over the next year to a year and a half they would be developing a program within the city of santa rosa that would include training mentoring and connection to the council the city council and or city boards commissions and committees and their first project right now that they're working on is to create a youth friendly civic engagement guidebook which is based on the office of community engagement citizen guidebook to participation and a training for youth based on that guidebook and their timeline for placing the youth with boards and commissions or or matching youth with boards and commissions would be sometime next year so that's kind of the current work being done in this area and just for a little bit more context and history in the past the city has had a teen council program which had different iterations over the years but it was ultimately put on hold several years ago because of stock turnover and it was never resurrected um so it was originally established in 1993 as a means for communication between the city council and young people in the community and their major responsibility was to advise city council on issues related to youth uh they were tasked with developing their own structure including admission statement duties responsibilities program content and goals and and a meeting schedule and it's most recent iteration in like 2010-ish I think 2012 maybe the teen council was staffed by the recreation division their neighborhood services program and consisted of middle school students and high school students attending school within Santa Rosa and they had certain criteria for candidates seeking appointment to the teen council they served to term of one year they made semi-annual reports to the city council as well as attending city council meetings now that teen council program was just a relationship with council city council not other city boards and commissions and as far as I have been able to find out through my kind of research and asking folks there has never been a formal program for youth representatives on city boards committees and commissions so just some considerations for today's discussion you know to to keep in mind what goals does the committee have for including a youth representative on our public places uh is there an interest in participating in the program with the office of community engagement when they're ready to launch in a in a year or so is there an interest in seeking a youth member sooner or separate from the engagement programs program um what criteria should be developed for candidates seeking a position what responsibilities or expectations would there be for their involvement um so those are just some of the questions I came up with to kick off some of our conversation today and just a few kind of general guidelines as far as I think would work for them to be structured as a as a representative or a member on the committee they would they would essentially be considered a volunteer like all of you um they would be a non-voting member because they wouldn't be appointed by council and that's not currently in our policy that doesn't mean we couldn't change the policy at some point so it's another consideration to think of in terms of your goals should there be policy changes that would help support a more active role for them on the committee um and then right now they must live in the city limits just like all of the committee members so uh so yeah that's what I've come up with so far in terms of history and current efforts and some considerations to start off with and yeah happy to answer any questions or just hear any thoughts that you have about starting something up yeah oh you're on mute Kristen but Jeff go ahead thank you first of all I'm gonna apologize because I have to leave in about five minutes to get to another meeting but I just wanted to ask the question about um a team council as opposed to a team representative and if there had been uh any meaningful uh discussion about um what the value of one for the other might be I've seen some models where there might be a team or youth advisory council that has a representative that would um be a member of a committee like this and so I'm just wondering what the thoughts might be as to how we would find such a team representative and who they represent and whether that might be actually an advisory council of some sort or for a group like this because we are um really focused on art would we want to perhaps look to art start or art quest or some existing teen art program as perhaps a partner anyway just some questions that come to mind yeah I would love to have obviously someone specifically on our committee because I think that youth could provide um a different viewpoint than us and I mean this is something that was really important to me so um so my preference would certainly be to have someone on our committee and um I'd be willing to work with whoever to try and see if we can get that done um but if the you know the work is the ground work is being done um I don't know if it makes sense for us to try and strike off on our own um trying to get something done sooner since we can't even get our task force off the ground yet so um who said that um I but um yeah I that would be my preference rather than you know just a youth council that's working with the um the council members because I think I mean I see all the time about youth in the paper that are doing things all over the city and you know I I think we need to tap into that market so yeah I agree I totally agree because their ideas their thoughts are are relevant and for us to progress and go forward we need to have them as you know their opinions and um you know and just their modern intake and if we could if it could be a voting member if they were on the committee I think that would probably be important so that they're not feeling like they don't really count but if that was a sticking point that would I could deal with that and I have a comment too I do um I was I was thinking about this because I was looking through some materials on Saras which is the food um growing it's a bigger kind of non-profit and how they use youth and I just happened to be kind of interested because we were talking about this and I noticed that they have an internship program and then they launch students in for a six month period into the board and I sort of like the sort of beginning and end for that I think for students also and we have long meetings and they work quickly and I just think that's a lot to ask for a young person to I obviously we're behind a screen now and that and but that could keep going on and so um just in terms of engaging and then there's people I like the idea that there was this sort of sense of engaging them with the work and the internship they had each other as well and then different people could just one would go onto the board for so for six months but I'm not saying that's just the only way to do it but it seemed interesting to have some motivation on everyone's part there's an immediacy they're here let's just get to know them but you know instead of um there's you know students lives are split into much different time constraints and also you know schedule for their movement through life is different than ours so just wanted to bring those kind of ideas up I don't know how it would interface with what we're doing city-wide but we might be able to move together and thank you for bringing up awareness of student schedules and wanting to be conscious of how to engage but to also garner enthusiasm for sitting on a committee and sitting through meetings like these. I um I agreed with Jeff's comment in wanting to reach out to an existing group that is whether it's an art start or an arts organization with high schoolers I think that would be the age group I would look to engage with and I'm open to the opportunity of maybe them having a term or kind of a timeline that they do fit into it that works with the school year as well so that that can kind of be planned into you know just just thinking about the school year as well giving a little bit more structure to it I would at least I would get excited a little bit more excited if there was structure around it and I I really do think that having a youth representative on our committee I would also vote for the representative rather than a youth council I think I think that was Tara's first question for us and and in terms of goals for that I would be interested in understanding how kind of different art opportunities are exciting or engaging to the youth population that we're talking to and how you know promoting projects like that could be layered into our our policy so I would be looking for ideas for future projects and then how to strengthen communication in terms of what is is there an avenue that we could be you know engaging in dialogue with that we're not using currently and I don't mean to say that I'm going to ask the city to set up a tick tock for the art and public places committee but I want to kind of be more aware of what is seen as you know valuable or engaging ways of reaching out just really quick to I do like the idea of you know art quest and other you know organizations for teen stuff but we also need to remember too there is art classes at other high schools that we have around and not all the time that some kids are not able to go to these schools because of distance or because of their brothers or sisters or something are at the school that they're at and so I mean we need to make sure that we look at all high schools are all avenues where there are kids and that are interested in art and are passionate about art just and you know just not focus on these certain schools specifically for for art. Well thanks for all your input that's that's helpful um I don't know Skoro do you have any thoughts on this that might help with how we move forward I mean I didn't want you to feel like you couldn't be part of this conversation so join in please if you have anything. Well I think I I mean so this is only my second meeting so I'm you know making a lot of assumptions so always correct me if I'm wrong but it does sound like you're um looking for more voices looking for more perspectives and certainly a youth voice in that would be I think amazing I think I agree that there are lots of places to draw students from and some very talented artists might not be in art programs um and so consider that I don't know what your criteria will be and um and I also think an art quest is a beautiful program and we serve more than Santa Rosa City Schools so there are other secondary schools in the city bounds to be thinking about in terms of participation. I do think that having them on your committee depending on when you meet and how frequently I think I think they're actually a large number or a growing number even of young people who want to be involved in this space and would be honored and feel as important to attend these meetings and I think that youth voice can be expanded to not just be high school but also kind of young people so like early 20s so the SRJC or Sonoma State or other programs like that like you can do like 17 to 25 and that be considered young people in our community so I think probably the the work of what would be the criteria and what's the kind of ideal type of participant we're looking for to really get those these perspectives and as part of your kind of DNA I think it would be very positive and I think you would have wonderful applicants I think there would be a large number of young people to choose from that are extremely interested in this and would um probably push our thinking in a lot of healthy enjoyable beautiful ways thank you um yeah I guess I I I it sounds like the majority of you are more interested in having a kind of a direct representative on this committee I think that's probably also the quickest and most kind of um yeah more more attainable way to go at least immediately instead of a city wide program although I like the idea that if we come up with something that works for us that that could be a model for other city boards and commissions and committees and hopefully the idea will grow and and spread and then I I mean I think having the office of community engagement separate program their partnership the youth promoters I I feel like that is a kind of a win win anyway if they're working on a program that is going to focus on through Latino service providers um you know I I feel like that doesn't necessarily conflict with what we would be doing separately anyway unless there's a desire to try to combine those efforts um because I think that they could still if they if they come up with a program where they compare um their youth with different city boards commissions committees and the city council there's still an opportunity to have a representative from that program on the committee as well I like I don't necessarily see the downside to that um so um I you know there are still some steps that I have to do in order to figure out exactly how um how to get it functional so that the person can actually be on the committee and be counted as a representative participate as a member um you know I can also do the research to figure out exactly what it would take to have to be a voting member versus non-voting member um so you know there's a few you know more steps that need to be taken in terms of kind of that um research and in development but I think bringing back something where we can get more concrete feedback from the committee on how we would do the outreach what the criteria would be how what kind of a selection process needs to be put in place for that um that that probably would be the next steps and what would be most helpful to keep it moving great great well thanks for laying out those steps we'll um we'll circle back to that so that we can keep this conversation going the development of criteria our outreach process and then the selection process so we'll we'll keep that in mind as we go forward with this goal great all right uh at this point I would like to move us on to item 5.3 sorry let's hurry now public comment uh Eileen do we have any public comment uh request for 5.2 uh we have no raised hands at this time thank you great sorry Tara okay all right now uh 5.3 we have project updates staff will present updates on any current or on current projects thanks yeah I just have very brief updates um today so uh we are still moving forward with the Unum piece obviously um we did wrap up the community engagement outreach for collecting the words um David pretty much reported out the current status at our last meeting in October um we had hoped perhaps that we would be ready to bring the final list of words and phrases that were identified for the project um as well as the final design and engineering uh from the artist to the committee for approval today but the artist needs a little bit more time to get her engineering prepared her documents prepared for that so hopefully uh that will be at the December meeting um other than that I don't think there's any real updates for the parking garage project obviously that was was approved on October 18th so we are moving forward with the contract um with the artist for that project and then um the Asawa fountain I wanted to briefly mention that the timing for that is looking like we will have a um final kind of decision or the final steps to secure the funding needed for the bronze panels um should happen at the end of this month um it's a council item that would approve allocating um some of the PG&E settlement funds towards this um and that would be its main source of funding so that is slated for the end of November at this point and I will be able to report back hopefully at the December meeting the outcome of that and what the next steps are for that um our normal maintenance and conservation program I mean we're you know we evaluate things as needed and schedule that work we do have a few items on the list there's a few um items along the Prince Memorial Greenway trail that were uh damaged by um different homeless encampments over the last year that need to be addressed so we're scheduling that work soon and we are also still continuing to work on the repair of the Zag artwork the light artwork that's on that pedestrian bridge over the uh creek Santa the creek um and so we're looking at what different um type of attachment technique could be used for the light strips that are on the bridge so that the connectors are not as exposed as they were in the original installation so anyway we're continuing to work on a variety of those um types of maintenance issues and I will bring back items to the committee when there's a need for approvals or um or I can just provide further updates at the next meeting and I think that's it for today thanks I can answer any questions if you have any do any committee members have any questions for our ongoing or our continuing projects all right thanks Tara for the update and we hope to hear more uh the next meeting regarding the Ruth Asawa Fountain so I hope that continues to be scheduled for the end of this month and do I need to ask for public comment for this item is okay uh Eileen do we have any public comments for 5.3 project updates we have no raised hands at this time thank you great we'll now move to item number six committee reports we have 6.1 ad hoc task force reports and discussion uh sounds like we had a pretty um well we we had a conversation under 5.1 about our different task forces uh do any of the task task forces have anything that they would like to report out as a um as an update at this time great really appreciate everyone's uh insight and comments that we had during our ad hoc task for discussion uh earlier I'm excited to see where this goes once we have uh more more thought and intention behind the goals oh you're on mute thank you dropped for a while I just um Kristen since we're meeting uh to kind of discuss our ad hoc um sort of slate on Thursday um it occurred to me that maybe sort of working through some of that process audit stuff might be productive um and I just wanted to check in with the other groups to see if um if there was anything that we should work into that meeting since we're trying to sort of have more synergistic or you know more exchange around those groups does that sound like a like a sensible priority for a Thursday meeting for that group or should we focus on the uh artist in residency program with the planning committee sorry go ahead I'm not sure can you explain a little more what you're asking me that I'm a little confused so just well I was just looking at the bullet points for the project development and it's seemed like maybe um working on some concrete bullet points around the process audit might be productive and I just wondered if anyone from the other groups wanted to chime in since we have arrangements to discuss that already no sorry okay so I think we can take a stab at what we think that audit should look like and if we have questions about that maybe we bring that up during the next committee report out during our for project development we'll kind of say this is how uh that that audit kind of looks to us cursory wise and then ask for input from the other from the other members just to make sure that we are having an inclusive view on this not yeah sometimes when you're just looking at a problem yourself it really helps to take a a step away well great um like yeah we'll we'll coordinate on Thursday and then we'll get back to the group soon yeah my plan was to meet with Anne again and then just kind of do an outline with us and what we're going to do and but before we jump on it um on whatever we're going to do maybe run it by Tara first to make sure that we're not repeating it with anybody we're not we're working in a way we're actually we're a puzzle piece and everybody's working on a separate puzzle piece that will eventually connect and work together great it sounds like we have some individual work and then small group and then larger big group so great i like these steps uh moving on our agenda we have number seven department reports this time is reserved for city staff to provide a briefing on issues of interest no action will be taken on these matters except to possibly place a particular item on a future agenda for consideration i have no updates today so nothing nothing to report great thank you Tara Tara i was wondering too if um because i didn't see it on here um anything that we have to report or say um and i just wanted to announce and tell everybody to make sure about winter glass i don't know we're going to have an opportunity to do that yeah under so under six next go ahead and do it but uh next time it's under six committee reports even though there's a separate six point one the overall item of six is for any committee member to make any announcements or report out that they'd like oh okay okay well i just want to make sure tell everybody winter blast is this saturday and it's from um five to nine thirty uh that's been going strong every year almost um except for you know when kelvin came around and um it's going to be a lot of fun there's tons of music kids can come it's for families it's for everybody it's food music parade um you can dress up whatever you want be some winter you know some kind of theme with winter and um it is yeah if i said before it's from five to nine thirty and let's support the arts and make ourselves presents and bring as many friends and just have a a dandy fun time i appreciate the plug yeah and i i under department reports i probably should mention two things briefly just one generally um not that it impacts um city boards and commissions directly but today november first was the city's official return to campus day for staff so um we've all been working remotely from home this whole time um and so today was the kind of official okay now you have to come back um i'm still working from home in a part-time schedule so there is a policy that allows for part-time remote work continuing for staff who want to participate in that um so that's just kind of a note for everyone to know that um more more staff more so are working from the office again starting today and then secondly that does impact this committee i believe and i lane please jump in and correct me if i'm wrong i believe starting in 2022 we will be doing hybrid meetings which means that members um have the option of participating via zoom currently but we also have to have an in-person presence in a city uh facility where some members should they choose can participate in person and staff um some staff will also be on site so i believe we will be starting that in 2022 potentially january but i'm not 100 positive so right now um that that is correct the goal is to have us start in 2022 um the date of the first meeting um for art and public places i believe is right after the new year so um i guess it would be first attention on if that meeting occurs if it does um we'll be having the meeting out of the city manager's office and it will also be streaming as well great thank you we will definitely send out more information and instructions as we know more and if that's confirmed as our first hybrid meeting um so you know what it means to participate in person versus continuing to do it remotely so those really were my only department reports i'm done with that thank you great thank you and we'll stay tuned uh item eight is future agenda items this schedule is tentative and subject to change pending final publication and posting of the meeting agenda sorry christin that that is the wrong language there i'm not sure um what happened there but um it's that second that second sentence is the one that you can read that actually makes sense thank you this time is reserved for discussion whether to place matters on future agenda for further discussion uh our current list includes private partnerships commercial real estate and local artists second point how can appc support community programs and events uh third point is creative sonoma arts strategy update fourth we have fire commemoration and memorial project fifth budget for visiting artists and lecture program is there any other items that we would like to add to this future agenda item list and then they can be placed onto the agenda when time is available all right seeing none i think everyone's a little sleepy and cozy from the rain today so i would like to move forward with our um adjournment and remind everyone that our next regular meeting of the art and public places committee is scheduled for monday december 6 so thank you all for tuning in and we'll uh see you guys soon have a great evening have a great evening thank you everybody


Well, welcome to Monday Morning. This is Think Tech. I'm Jay Fiedel. You know, lawyers are very important in Hawaii. Real estate lawyers are very important. After all, we've had a real estate economy for a long time, and some say since statehood anyway, maybe longer. And it has done us well. It extends to all kinds of activities. And we have a very robust, sophisticated real estate industry, if you will. And some people are more at the center of that industry than others. We have one who has been at the center of that industry for 38 years, count them 38 years, Mitch Imanaka. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you, Jay. It's really a pleasure to be here with you. He's the managing partner of Imanaka Asato, and he has been in real estate. I don't do the math, but I guess that means 1979, when he started doing real estate. And he's been consistent on that, you know? In a small town industry like this, legal industry, you find people tend to be generalists sometimes, and hard for them to stay on a path of being an expert. But he has become, he was early an expert and stayed an expert all these years, never been distracted. So tell us briefly about your career in these 38, 38 years. And you have roughly two minutes. Okay. I think I can do that in two minutes. I graduated from Georgetown Law School and I came back to Hawaii because I knew I wanted to practice here. So I started with a small law firm called Carl Smith and Dwyer way back then. And Kurt Carl Smith was a real gentleman. He was Merrill's son and wanted to forge his own path, which he did. So I joined that firm back in 1979, my first job, and stayed there for till now, really. It's a continuation of that same practice. Kurt and Jack, although having a small firm with just six people, had really good clients. And I learned a hell of a lot from both those gentlemen through the years. So that's how I started the practice matured. Kurt left the practice and we continued real estate practice to this day. And your subspecialty, if I can, seems to be around condo development and development in general, real estate, substantial transactions as a specialty. We do. We've been very privileged to work on a number of very high-profile matters through the years. But we focus on condominium development. We do all of the paperwork to make that happen. We also focus on timeshare. Back in 1980, we drafted the first bill with Charlie Pierre in timeshare. And we continue that practice today. So we represent a lot of folks in the hospitality business as well. As I said, in the center of the real estate industry and real estate development in the state, which is an important part of post-statehood economy. So recently, your firm now, how long has it been in existence? It's been so named. Well, it's been so named since 2012. You know, we had Richard Asado, who's been with me for 25 years, come on board as a partner and we changed the name of the firm. So you're rebranding. You're increasing. We are. It's an exciting time, you know. What is it like? It's great. You know, we have a bunch of new folks in the firm and, excuse me, excuse my voice. You know, it's an exciting time. It's always nice to have new blood and fresh perspectives in there. And so we have a bunch of new lawyers that are very well-versed, but also very involved in the business aspects of the law firm and said, hey, why don't we get something new started? Why don't we take a fresh look? Why don't we take a fresh approach? And so we rebranded the firm and we have a new website that you're all welcome to visit. Sure. What's the name? Ibanaka Asado. Funny name. Not very creative, but it's basically us. So it's an exciting time. We had an anthology help us with that and their true professionals. And I think that really comes out on the site and it's done very nicely. Yeah, it's done. I looked at it in preparation for the show. I saw you have, what, 10 or 12 lawyers now. Something like that. Two partners, two partner to associate. You know, it's, gee, that's a good question. I would say two to one. Two to one. Yeah, two to one. Two partners to one associate or two associates? No, two partners. And it's so like, as an example, like two associates for each partner. Yeah. Oh, okay, okay. Well, that's good. I mean, you need a little pyramid there. Sure, sure, sure. You know, to distribute the work. So I had the impression from what you said a minute ago that you had a new kind of democracy going on in this term. Tell us how you manage it. Well, it's a friendly democracy where we seek input from all the lawyers on where we want to go. And we're very sensitive. We work together. We're just a close knit bunch of people that come to work today. It's sort of a working family, if you will. And it's not just the lawyers. We have great paralegal staff. We have great legal secretaries. My secretary has been with me now for almost 38 years. Sandra? No, actually, it's Janice Tsukimura, who, by the way, fired me about five years ago. And that's another story. But, you know, one day she came in and said, I can't do all this anymore. I said, no, no, you have to. Another year goes by and she said, well, you know what? Then I'm leaving. And so I said, well, what do you want to do? Okay, so that's a kind of family.   She actually is able to train some of our younger lawyers, as you might imagine. Great, great, great. So the rebranding. I mean, I'm really interested in that because we live in a time of rebranding. And law firms are really no exception. And there must have come a moment back a couple years ago when you decided that, gee, you didn't want to follow the conventional approach anymore. You wanted to have a new modern techie kind of image and you called Anthology and Mary. Fastenow. Yeah, Fastenow. She is great. I love Mary. And you said, I'm guessing now you said, gee, can you spiff us up here? We need to get current. We need to shine. We need to have people understand us right away. We're looking at our website and like it and coming around. And the website I saw when I looked at it was really very good because it gave you a profile as a firm, as individuals. I learned a lot about you in just a few minutes by perusing it. So anyway, tell us about the process of making that decision, executing it. Well, first of all, actually, although the website looks brand new and fresh, the concepts that are embedded in there are very old. You know, back in 1991, I thought our firm should take a different direction. And that we did. We brought on some people that we thought could help us move in that direction. And those themes kind of run throughout the website, but we're really embedded in our marketing materials way back then. So it's a refresh on the same themes, if you will. You know, the theme is that we're here to help people, not just to do the legal work, but to help them integrate into the community and probably understand the broader community within which we do business. It's basically, that's the theme. And we took it another level, and yet another level with this iteration of the website. So it's been a long journey. And it's always good to kind of give people something new to chew on. And that was the idea behind the rebranding. Not so much that we're moving in a new direction, but kind of to tell the story in a different way. Oh, here's a picture of the website now. Oh, great. Tell us how it works. What's the navigation on it? Well, this is about, as you can see, it's a skillful navigation of Hawaii's business landscape. And so what that means to us and hopefully to the readership is that we're in a position in our community to give counsel to people and how to integrate into our community. A lot of times we do have people from the outside coming into Hawaii wanting to do business. We feel that because we've been doing this for almost 40 years, we know a little bit about that. And so what we do for them goes beyond the law. It goes into counseling, you know, how best to approach different issues of the day, what's going on in our community, who do you talk to in our community to make a difference. How do you do that?  And so that's the value that we have. I think that we have to offer a lot of people that maybe some other folks just don't have. Yeah, I saw the testimonials. You have some very powerful testimonials on the site. And they are testimonials by either A, substantial local companies in the real estate business that we have heard the names. And B, people we may not have heard so much about, but they're national names. The impression I have looking at it is you have a lot of large national clients, but more than that, you have clients who have had long-term relations with you, which is, to me, everything now in the law practice, because that's not the default. The default is, you know, in and out one shop stopping and then you're out again. And to hold on to a client for decades, that's really remarkable in our time. How do you do that? What's your magic sauce? Well, thank you. I'm not sure I'm ready to reveal all the magic today. But of course, you know, as a lawyer in private practice, you want to develop relationships with the people that you're helping. And we've been very fortunate in that. We've had, as you say, a lot of good clients. You develop a friendship, a trust relationship.  And that's how you build trust. And we're very fortunate to have people that have been with us for 25, 30 years as a result. You know, one thing you said that I'd like to pursue is that, you know, you counsel with them. You advise them. I mean, it's the classic moment where a brand new client walks in, maybe a client from the mainland or Asia. He comes into your office and he says, Mitch, Mitch Sun, if necessary. Even Nakasan. And he says, you know, I don't know about doing business in Hawaii. I've heard a lot about, you know, government bureaucracy and delays. I've heard a lot about protest. I've heard a lot about permitting problems. I've heard a lot about, you know, the difficulty of dealing with labor and the difficulty of getting a project together. So before I come into this state, before I invest my money here, do my project here, I need you to tell me what it's like in Hawaii. What's the environment now and what can I expect? Can you give me one minute on that? Sure. Well, Hawaii is very different from all of the other 49 states, as we all know now. You know, it's about building relationships and it's about maintaining those relationships. It's about people and it's about building trust, the same way you would with a client. It's about reaching out into the broader community and making sure that they know who you are and that you're listening to them and that you appreciate them and that you respect them, that you respect the whole culture, that you respect all the people here. And once you're able to do that, I think it broadens the opportunity for communication and more effective communication redounds to the benefit of the client and that's all it's all about. I suppose I'm on the consortium that's building a telescope on Mauna Kea. We know one of those, right? Not my client, by the way. Okay, okay, good. And although you can dot the i's and cross the t's, that isn't necessarily going to rule the day. That's right. So what do you say to a client like that? What do you say about, you know, what we call an Indigenous local phenomenon? Phenomenon, you know, that may stand in the way, even if you do a perfect job on the paper. You know, again, it's about listening to the community and hearing them and trying to decipher what the path is going to be going forward. You're not always going to be successful because you're always going to have folks, you know, that do not want you to do something no matter what you say, no matter what you do and how you approach it. That's life. Are you reaching the vast majority of people? Do you have support for the project nonetheless? And if you do, how do you communicate that in an effective way so that your project can move forward? I think that's the approach that you have to take. It actually benefits all of us that you can bring in clients and investments and help them understand and help them manage their investments and their projects because that means Hawaii will have more business. And I'm sure you'll agree with me that the economy of the state needs foreign investment offshore investment and always. Yeah, well, we all know that Hawaii is a capital poor state. You know, we don't manufacture anything. We manufacture some things, but you know, not to a large degree where we're actually exporting capital. We need money to come in. So it's important to manage that process, to message it correctly, to make sure that we're sending the right messages to folks that are outside of Hawaii that want to come in while not losing what we have here. We don't want to sell our soul. The money that comes in has to be money that is going to be willing to work with the community to create a win-win situation where the business is here because they can make money, but they're also doing good for the community. And I think that's the best scenario. I always felt that, you know, Hawaii has a problem in understanding that it has the power. We collectively have the power not only to attract investment, but to manage the investment. And if we don't manage it, either we shoo them away because we're paranoid about them or what they plan to do, or we treat them as cargo cult where they're always right, you know, even if they're wrong. And the result is we don't have managed investments in a lot of areas. So lawyers play a role in all of that in managing them and managing them to do the right thing with us and sort of bringing it all together. And it's a value to the state. We're going to take one minute for a break, Mitch. That's Mitch Imanaka of Imanaka Sato talking about real estate law and branding, and we'll be right back after this break. Hi, this is Jane Sugimura. I'm the co-host for Kondo Insider. And we're on Think Tech Hawaii every Thursday at 3 o'clock. And we're here to talk about condominium living and issues that affect condominium residents and owners. And I hope you'll join us every week on Thursday. Aloha. Aloha. My name is John Wahee. And I used to be a part of all the things that you might be angry at. I served in government here and may have made decisions that affects you. So I want to invite you in. I want to invite you in to Talk Story with me and some very special guests every other Monday here at Talk Story with John Wahee. Come on in, join us, express your opinion, learn more about your estate, and then do something about it. Aloha. Yes, Life in the Law. Today, a study of the practice of Mitch Imanaka, the managing partner of Imanaka Asato. So, you know, you talked about bringing capital in from other places. And that I suppose means branding out to other places, doesn't it?   Well, we do our best to do that. And there are two thoughts there. Okay, first, I really feel that because we're so insular, we're so far away from all of these other places that have money, you actually have to physically go there. You have to physically go to these places, meet people, make sure they know who you are, press the flesh, and hopefully that translates into over years, decades sometimes, you know, them getting to know you. The internet has really leveled the playing field in terms of marketing. You can reach everyone across the globe. So that's not really an issue. The issue is maintaining that people relationship and making sure that they can relate to you as a person. You know, they want to make sure that they're working with someone who has integrity, who's going to be able to carry their interests in Hawaii. And that's very important. Something often overlooked, by the way. Yeah, yeah. As is the notion of responding and telephone calls and letters often overlooked. I gather from your website that you do respond. Absolutely. Yeah, really very important. It's a member of the public, I can say. What about Asia? Well, what about travel? You said travel. Do you travel to the mainland? Do you meet and greet and press the flesh there? What are the circumstances of those trips? The same thing with Asia. Sure. I try to do that at least six times a year. I used to do a lot more, but, you know, I'm getting older. We know all about that. So I don't do it as much. We have folks in the firm that do that a little bit more. And I have done that through trade groups, through trade organizations and through clients that, you know, we've been fortunate to represent over the years. So, you know, whether it's to DC or down to Florida or to California, mainly, you know, those are the places that generally go in the continental U.S. With regard to Asia, you know, I do sit, fortunately, on the board of the local subsidiary of a rather large Japanese insurance company. And that affords me the opportunity to relationship build, you know, with that particular community in Japan. So, and that continues to this day. Yeah. Guangxi, of course. And Guangxi also applies in the U.S., I gather, from what you say, in terms of developing clients. It's really the same notion. Maybe play it out a little different, but it's the same idea. Sure, absolutely. Yeah. That's relationship building. What about the Chinese? Now, that's slightly different kettle of fish. Are you visiting China? Are they visiting you? Are you doing work for them? Or, you know, they're interested in investments now. It sounds like they're coming to town. What can you tell us about that? I can't talk much about that right now. Okay. I got the message. Yeah. But, yes, we are working with a number of them, and we'll see. You know, there seems to be a capital flowing out of China at an accelerated rate. I'm not quite sure what the reasons are, although from what I read, you know, they're anxious about the exchange and where their yuan is going, and so we'll see what happens. It's an interesting time. It's a good place for them to come. It is a very good place. It's a safe place. I think Hawaii has traditionally, for real estate investors, been a very safe venue for capital. Although you may not make as much money here, you're certainly not going to lose any money. And I think that's very attractive to people right now.  We've seen some of that in the newspaper with multi-acreage, you know, to develop from the ground up. Or are they here to buy condos or develop condos? What is their primary drift these days? What do you expect is happening? That's a good question. And we'll see that play out over the next course of the next decade. But I do believe that they're interested in moving money out of the country and are looking for safe haven for that money. But, you know, they're also very entrepreneurial and see opportunity here, which is a good thing for us. You know, they think we're a place where they can experience a vibrant economy, where they can make some money, where if they invest something, they won't lose it. And that all bodes well for all of us. So, I think they're looking for almost everything, you know, not just, you know, maybe an existing building, but also to develop here. And I think that's a good sign for us. How do you reconcile, you know, the economic disparities we have in Hawaii? Lord knows, you know, some of those penthouses look right down on 10th City, and the disparity is so touching and, you know, tragic. So, if you're in real estate development and your client wants to spend Uku Bucks and build places, you know, they have condos for multi-millions of dollars, how do you reconcile that with the state economy and the social safety net and the fact of that disparity? Very good question. We have a lot of work to do in that particular area. Over the course of the last three decades, we've seen income disparity across the country, not just here in Hawaii. True. Okay. And we do need, and this is the number one priority I know for a lot of folks, we do need affordable housing here that's infused into the community at an accelerated rate, because there's a real need there. And it's a very hurtful need, because we see those in our families, you know, leaving to seek jobs elsewhere, to seek a better quality of life elsewhere, because the housing cost is so lower, so much lower in other jurisdictions. That's a big issue for our community. But in terms of, you know, all of these buildings coming up, we need those buildings, and a lot of folks don't think this way, but, you know, realistically, we need that infusion of capital building so that we can have the money to build other stuff. Okay. So as an example, down in Kakaako, there's what we call a 20% affordable requirement where someone who erects a tower has to basically build 20% of that, has to be affordable housing somewhere in the community. And I think that's a good policy. But I also think, you know, knowing about what the numbers look like, Jay, if we're going to be serious about building affordable housing in our community, I think to a large degree, it has to be subsidized in some fashion. And I think the numbers, you know, I'm on the NIOP board, and we took a hard look at this a couple of years ago now. It looks as if you need about 100, $125,000 a unit to be subsidized in order for- The amount of the subsidy. In order for a developer to step up and say, hey, I'll do that project. Otherwise, it's a very, very difficult process that you have to go through, which is very time-consuming and doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of developers out there. So what I'm saying, I guess, is we need government to step up. They perhaps take a leadership role, perhaps put some money on the table, and hopefully the public needs to support this because the government won't do it if there's not widespread public support, as you know. And that's the way you do it. So it's a supply-demand thing. The more units you put out there, it'll help to stabilize the market. Absolutely. And I think we're seeing that in certain segments in the Alamoana area where the older inventory, the price points have stabilized because of the infusion of new product, whether it's high-end or mid-end type product. It's already had that impact. And I think if we continue down that road and build more, you'll have more opportunities for people to move up, and therefore they need to sell their unit at what price are they selling it? Probably a lower price. And I think all of those things combined can help us get to where we need to be. But it takes a focused effort. It takes teamwork. It takes leadership. And hopefully we can achieve that. And hopefully that will be the legacy of our generation. Yeah. People don't realize that government does not build housing. You don't want government to build housing. No. You want developers to build housing. Right. But you've got to make it pencil out for them. Right. And if it doesn't pencil out, you have to change the formulas somehow. Exactly. So it does pencil out. Exactly. I think it's a very good point. The other thing I wanted to ask before we get to finished here because we don't have that much time is we have a kind of sprawl going on, at least in Oahu, which is of some concern. Instead of having what Neelabakrambi used to talk about in a high-rise city center with the green belts and suburban low-rise, we seem to be sprawling everywhere. And I wonder your thoughts about that and what we can do to make Honolulu anyway a kind of more organized place, such as major cities in Canada and other places in the English Commonwealth like Australia and New Zealand, where there are belts, concentric belts around the center of the city and it all works out for everybody. Can we do that? How can we do that? I think we have done that to some degree. I mean, way back in the 60s, we passed a law, I think it's 62, the land use law here. And we said certain areas, we're going to have urban development, certain areas we're going to have agricultural development, et cetera, and or use. And so the urbanized areas in Hawaii, people don't realize it sometimes, I think, hovers around the 4% number. And so it's a very, very small percentage of our land. But you raise a good point because maybe the perception is that we have urban sprawl. We really don't because these areas have already been designated for urban use and fall within that 4% of all the land in Hawaii. What we do have though is an opportunity to preserve open space. And I think at least one of our candidates recently talked about going up rather than out. And I think in Hawaii we really should look at that as a solution because if we're able to build up and not out, we can preserve our open spaces. We can preserve our way of life on the ground, if you will. And it's interesting, you know, how we just had an editorial about, well, maybe we shouldn't build more than 400 feet. I think we should look at all opportunities to go out. Appropriate setbacks, I think, are key to preserving our livability in terms of our community. You know, people want to walk these days. I mean, you have a Fitbit, I don't know, but I know my wife does and she walks everywhere. And so it's about making our life on the ground a lot better by preserving that open space by going up. To go up, then you have open space and people have a place to go. Even in the urban setting, by the way, in Evo or, you know, yeah. You know, I'm so sorry because I wanted to reserve some time, you know, to talk about all your community service and all the organizations you belong to and to outreach you and your firm. But first of all, when I started to print that out this morning, my printer ran out of paper. So, and here we are and we're running out of time. But let me just say that Vincere Minaca is everywhere. He belongs and participates in so many community organizations. We don't have the time for that. Thank you, Mitch. Thanks for coming down. Thank you, Jay. It's been a pleasure.