I'm just trying to, that recording is on. All right, so welcome back. And yeah, we've spent the last two hours just discussing on challenges in marriage. The last time we looked at how certain practical ways of how we could overcome challenges. We're going to spend some time looking at certain challenges and what are the biblical instructions that are given for specific challenges that people do face. You know what the scriptures say, in couple of areas, one is when there is a spouse that is unsaved, if there is a divorce in marriage, if there is the death of a spouse and death and remarriage. So we're going to be looking at the biblical instructions of these four specific areas because I think it's good to know what scripture has instructed in these areas. So we're going to be reading a lot of scriptures and from there we will pick up truths that we have found, okay? So when we look at the first, one of the first areas that comes across as a challenge, does somebody have a question? No, okay, yeah, okay. So when we look at one of the first life challenges is when there is an unsaved spouse or a spouse who is not a believer in the unit, in the marriage unit. So this could probably happen through very many ways. You know, either both partners chose to get married before they were believers or they decided, the couple decided to marry when one was an unbeliever. So it is a possibility that one of you could be the only believer in the family and the spouse is not in the Lord. And this can create a lot of challenges and difficulties because of the differences that one sees in faith. And I'm sure there are many times that y'all also would have personally come across people who face these challenges. I just want to open this up and ask as to, what have you noticed to be difficulties that a saved and an unsaved spouse faces when they are married together?  Okay, I'm just going to pause. I think Shri Kumar, you have a question on the assignment. Yes, Pastor, I have a question on assignment. Yes. Can I just? Go ahead. Pastor, there is a problem which I am facing. Like it's marking wrong even few questions, which is even if we, you know, it is not taking it in the right way. It's actually marking almost everything wrong. Like, so how, how we will let correct it, even that there you mentioned it, that also it's very wrong. All right. So don't worry about it. The reason is because I have not put an answer key there. Okay. Even there is answer key is also there, but that also it is showing wrong actually. Okay. Because that is a proper sentence. You maybe you are given. So I only put two points. Maybe that is there in the sentence. No problem. So the answer, the reason why I, some of them I've left blank is because, you know, you may use different words to mean the same thing. So don't worry about it. Each, each assess assignment that assessment that comes back comes back. I look through the entire thing. So I will manually mark it again. So don't worry if you're getting zero out of 35 because I'm going to manually look through each of your assessments and you will, I will return it to you with the marked one. Okay. So don't be perturbed by what you're seeing. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. All right. Okay. Because it's, it's a machine. It's a program. And yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. So yeah. So I'm opening up the question. What do you think have been the challenges that you've seen when an unbeliever and a believer joins together in marriage? What have you all seen as conflicts that happened? Yes, Charles, please go ahead. I hope we can hear you. It's always good to hear your thoughts, Charles. How about now? Can you hear me now? Yes. Yes, we can hear you now. Yes. Okay. Okay. The Lord. When one of the spouse is not saved, I have, I saw that challenge. For instance, one of the spouse was still taking, was smoking and taking alcohol. And the lady would be now the one to wash them, to clean. And this man would come when they are totally, totally drenched with alcohol. And they cannot even shift their legs. Sometimes they would call her. Your husband has failed to move. Come and help. And she would go and pee. It would be very outlook. The way the society is looking at the spouse is totally different. It's like, this is a failed marriage. This is something that is failing. But one of the reasons, as I've said, is the society, what they are looking at them and the way they are making comments. And again, it would, another point would lower the esteem of the spouse who is already saved because he's like, why me? Why doesn't she change? Am I praying wrongly? I have prayed for my spouse to get saved but he's not getting saved. So such things can be lingering in the brains in the mind of the spouse who is already saved, a gaze, and then the society would be looking at them differently. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Charles. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Sri Kumar, I think you had an observation. Yes, Pastor, thank you. Pastor, yeah, as an unbeliever, we can say this. I observe these things like, for them, the marriage is like their family is forcing them to do. There is no counseling in their marriage, you know. And they just look that, okay, now the person is now their age, as per their age now, he or she has to get married and they just find a good proposal and they just do it. And there is no formal counseling training and is given to them. And for them, many times it is just a usual thing or a casual thing. They can anytime, they can just get into wrong things. And it doesn't mean that every unbeliever's marriage is like that only. There are so many marriages which I saw that they are living a good family life far better than Christian's marriage. So that is also there. But when we look to the believers, I also find that even though we have all the privileges, but even I saw that there are worst things happens in believers' marriage. Like it doesn't, I also saw that like, you know, even though Jesus is this, they call themselves as believers, they are born in a Christian family, they come together. But there is that lifestyle, there is in the lifestyle, there is no purity, there is no holiness. You know, there is no faithfulness with each other. And if you say that, okay, that's an believer's marriage, it should be blessed the way how we think or what the Bible says. And that never happens. And so I think so that it again, it depends upon whether it is a believer or it's an unbeliever. It is a person who it is their individual responsibility that they should take care of each other and their commitment for each other. They should maintain their purity and holiness because I saw that even an unbeliever's marriage is also there. They live in purity, they keep their marriage so pure and secure even though they're absence or in the absence of God. But there are so many marriages I saw in the believer's life that they have spoiled and they are at the edge of divorce or so many things. That's my observation. Thank you, Pastor. Absolutely. Thank you. So I think even Anita has put up that observation. She said, sometimes we just married to a Christian and not a believer and their idea of marriage is based on the example set by their parents leading to continue the same mistakes that are carried by previous generation. So I do agree. It's not just about being a believer but also being following what God's word says that really makes the marriage fruitful. So someone who does place their trust in God should also be able to work out their righteousness. Yes, so I do agree with that.  Would you like to share? Yes, Susan, go ahead. One of my church believer girl, she got married to an unbeliever boy. So before marriage, she was a good prayer barrier. She used to come to church and pray for hours. But after marriage, she used to come but not regularly in between. So one day she opened a garment shop to start a business and she asked her husband permission for prayer. He said, okay, you can pray. So she called us church believers and we went and we prayed for that shop. And within after prayer, what he did, he was a Buddhist. He brought a picture of Ambedkar and he also called his friends and they started to do their prayer. So that was very, means I shamed and she started crying. So such kind of conflict soccer. Absolutely, thank you, Susan. Yes, we may see it in different forms and different sizes. I know personally, I have friends who've, believers who've been married to unbelievers and discuss about how even little decisions that they take become very conflicting because there's one person who's very practical oriented.  And then there are issues with that. There are issues with times of devotion, times of how you discipline children in the ways of the Lord, you know, in scripture that can be difficulty in the way that they see marriage in itself, you know. I think there's one couple who significantly struggle with having the interference of other family members and the spouse feels that, you know, as parents, they are close to God and they should be given first priority. Whereas the other spouse knows scripture says that, you know, the unit is one and should be stronger than anything else. So there can be very many reasons and ways of how issues turn out, you know, when two people are married and who have a difference in their faith, not just spiritually, but even in the practical ways of life. So what does one do? Okay, what does scripture teach us in such situations? Would someone, I'm on page 132, would someone read 1 Corinthians 7, 12 to 16 and somebody else can read 1 Peter 3, 1 and 2. So 1 Corinthians 7, 12 to 16 and 1 Peter 3, 1 and 2. You could just quickly unmute and read out loud. Yeah, 1 Corinthians 7, 12 to 16. To the other, as I say, I myself, not the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is an unbeliever and she agrees to go on living with him, he must not divorce her. And if a Christian woman is married to a man who is an unbeliever and he agrees to go on living with her, she must not divorce him.   If this were not so, their children would be like pagan children. But as it is, they are acceptable to God. However, if the one who is not a believer wishes to live, the Christian partner let it be so. In such cases, the Christian partner, whether husband or wife is free to act, God has called you to live in peace. How can you be sure, Christian wife, that you will not save your husband? Oh, how can you be sure, Christian husband, that you will not save your wife, a man? Thank you, Charles, thank you. Someone else, 1 Peter 3, 1 and 2? Yes, ma'am. 1 Peter 3, 1 and 2. Go ahead Prabhakar, I think it was Prabhakar who started. Please go ahead. Go ahead, somebody, somebody can read. Okay, I'll read that. Yes, Kennedy, go ahead. In the same way, you wives must submit yourselves to your husband so that if any of them do not believe God's word, your conduct will win them over to believe. It will not be necessary for you to say our God's word because they will see how you are and reverence your conduct is. Thank you. Thank you, Kennedy. So through these two scriptures, some instructions that we are to maintain to call for is one. We, if the unbelieving spouse and the believing spouse is willing to live together peacefully to not divorce one another. Okay, they continue to just the role of the believing wife as we, you know, as we had spoken about and as we had learned is to be in respect and in submission to her unbelieving husband. But this is of course only if it is as unto the Lord. That is, there shouldn't be any, it shouldn't be against the word of God. Her submission to the husband is not, it shouldn't be against the word of God. So avoiding divorce, if they are willing to peacefully live together, be in submission and respect to the unbelieving husband or, you know, love and care for and lead the unbelieving wife. As long as it is in the Lord and not in violation of your faith and what God's word says, okay? So that's one. The second is to know, you know, we see this in 1 Corinthians 7 verse 14. It says, if their children would be like pagan children, but as it is, they are acceptable to God. So through the faith of the believing spouse, there is, you know, they are made, there is a blessing for the unbelieving spouse as well as their children because of your faith in him. I think some versions also point out, and I'm just going to look, just give me a minute. I'm just going to look at the other versions that talk about this. And I think the word that is used there is sanctified. I'm just finding that. Yeah. So in the KJV, I think, or even in the NKJV, in the KJV it's written that the unbelieving spouse, unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, okay? That is they are consecrated or they're made holy. They are purified because of the unbelieving spouse. So they are sanctified, okay? And so also the other way. So we see that, you know, that is the, that's the instruction that's given. And lastly, that only if the unbelieving spouse chooses to leave the marriage or abandons the marriage should they be allowed to leave, okay? Then the spouse, the believing spouse, can dissolve the marriage and move forward. So the instruction given is if they continue to stay, it is important that they stay, but if not, they are allowed to move forward. No, okay, so Beth, your question was, unbelieving spouse is sanctified. Does that mean saved for eternity? No, it does not mean saved for eternity. Each person needs to come to a personal relationship with God for eternity. This sanctification is to a blessing, you know? When you pray or as a member of the family, when you have your faith in God, the rest of the members are recipients of the faith that you share. So the blessing, you know, they partake in the blessing that they have, but definitely not for eternity. It is, it's not, each person has to have, their own relationship with God has to come to their own confession and believing with God. It's not saved for eternity, but they have the blessings of God while they are here, right? I hope I clarified that. So that's what it would mean when you say they're acceptable to God, where they are, there is a blessing upon their lives at this point of time, but not eternal, not salvation. Salvation doesn't come over them. It's a blessing that there is, okay? Moving on, it is, we're going to look at instructions God has given with regard to divorce and marriage, okay? So I'm again on page, page 123. 33. Would someone please read the verses, Malachi 2, 14 and 16? And we will read Matthew 19, 3 and 9. There are a couple of verses. We will just probably read the verse in Malachi 2, 14 and 16 and Matthew 19, 3 to 9. Please go ahead. Yes. Would somebody like to read? Go on. Malachi 2, 14 and 16. You ask why he no longer accepts them?  She was your partner and you have broken your promise to her, although you promised for God that you would be faithful to her. Didn't God make you one body and split with her? What was his purpose in this? It was that you should have children who are truly God's people. So make sure that none of you breaks his promise to his wife.   Make sure you do not break your promise to be faithful to your wife. Thank you, Christopher. Would someone read Matthew 19, 3 to 9? That's on the next page, I think. No, the same page. One, two, three. Go ahead. Matthew 19, 3 to 9. Some Pharisees came to him and tried to trap him by asking, does our law allow a man to divorce his wife for whatever reason he wishes? Jesus answered, haven't you read the scripture that says that in the beginning, the Creator made people male and female? And God said, for this reason, a man will live his father and mother and unite with his wife and the two will become one. So they are no longer two, but one. No human being must separate then what God has joined together. The Pharisees asked him, why then did Moses give the law for a man to hand his wife a divorce notice and send her away? Jesus answered, Moses gave you permission to divorce your wives because you are so hard to teach, but it was not like that at the time of creation.  Thank you. Thank you, Simon. Okay. So through these scriptures, there are a couple more, but I've just taken the few that will highlight the point that we want to bring up is, it makes scripture is clear that God is against divorce. He does not approve of divorce and that is our greater understanding. So I've seen often, even as couples have been having conflicts, the word divorce and separation is used extremely flippantly, okay? And the instruction is not to, not the instruction, but it is very unhealthy when couples bring about this word and then they keep throwing that out. If we can't get in together, let's divorce. So it's not an option that a marriage should consider, okay? Now, there may be times that, so I'm giving you situations like, let's say where there is violence, there is significant violence in the marriage where there is a person's life, one of the spouse's life is threatened. In such cases, you do the best you can to keep the marriage going. Maybe initially it is probably to temporarily separate for a period of time till help is sought, till things are worked out, not considering divorce as a solution to the problems, but to work on it as best as possible. So I have this couple who I'm currently working with where the husband has been into alcohol addiction for over 15 years and it's a cycle over and over again. It's been a cycle, they believe us, yet the husband is into an addiction. So the wife has been continuously working, praying, supporting, going through a lot of extreme stress, I think very similar to what Charles was talking about. But the last episode, it so happened that the husband in his intoxication went for the throat of the wife, was choked her and she had to call for help and if the kids did not come in and young children, ages of 10 and eight, if the children hadn't come in, probably she would have passed out. So in a condition like that, she has decided to move away for a particular period of time till he's willing to get into rehabilitation, get the health that he wants and then see how he progresses and then come back. So the divorce was not an option. Now these situations are extremely hard, but she was aware that divorce was not an option, but needed to know that she couldn't enable the behavior like that, but needed to have him get in for help because it was further affecting their lives and the lives of the children. So not considering divorce as a solution, but if there requires a period of separation to work through this, that's when you look at it, okay? Scripture shows that there are only two reasons for why divorce should take place. One is adultery, as we saw in Matthew 99 and abandonment, what we saw in the previous scripture in 1 Corinthians 715 that if an unbelieving partner or a partner leaves, you know, abundance, then they are free to choose divorce. However, even in these situations, the attempt is to restore and heal the marriage. Only after good effort has been made, help has been taken, would you be free to exercise the choice, okay? Maybe other situations where there could be neglect or there is any kind of a destructive behavior that sometimes could lead to separation and divorce. Sometimes there may be one partner who is willing to work on the marriage, but the other opts out. Then we do understand that this may not be what God approves and desires of, yet they may choose to make that decision. And when such situations happen, and I'm sure we all have come across people who have been divorced, right? As believers, what should our response be? That those who are going through divorce are in significant painful and difficult situations. And we need to be careful not to pass judgment, not to single them out, not to come to a place of ensuring that you speak correction, but to be in a place of grace and gentleness and support them through that. Because we know that in every situation, whatever choices we make, it is only the grace and the mercy of God that works in our lives, okay? So if now there may be times that in the course of time, if they are being led to remarry, we often, we take that to bless them as well. However, we do bring about scripture that says, which we are going to be looking at, apart from remarriage is possible only if there is death, we bring about that scripture back to them. However, we pray that God would lead them to the right choice. And even as we're saying that we want to be careful that we do not support these, these cyclical divorce, remarriage, divorce, remarriage that happens in maybe in certain parts of our culture where marriage needs to be looked at as an institution to be honored. So we support remarriage only within a context of biblical instruction and knowing that, it's God's heart and mind that has helped the person make this decision. Yes, Samuel, you had a question. Samuel, did you have a question? Yes, yes. Yes, go ahead. Yeah. So I'm thinking with children in perspective. So, you know, yes, divorce is definitely not an option, definitely not so, but so one aspect that I have often heard, you know, thrown around also is, let's say husband and wife refuse to see eye to eye and there is more conflict at home. The father and mother constantly fighting, screaming and shouting, bringing down each other. It's really an unhealthy environment for the children. And I don't know if the Bible says anything much about that. I mean, how kids were brought up back then and how the environment that surrounds a children now with depression on the rise, suicide rates on the rise. And we often see that kid children coming from families, that are either broken or even families that have so much conflict, it affects their personalities. So in the light of that, so, you know, even then there's no unfaithfulness, there's nothing, but husband and wife, there's just so much fight. One, I think easy option that a lot of parents resort to is putting the kids in the hostel in boarding schools, which again I feel, I mean, I went to boarding from grade one and I don't see that as a very good thing. I feel kids should stay with their parents and should be raised by their parents. However, kids being raised by parents who themselves are conflicted and are fighting all the time. So anything that you wanna, you know, I mean, I think it affects the kids a lot and it's not no longer just the two individuals. I mean, they are selfish and obviously they're thinking just about themselves, but these kids who are like sponges soaking everything and are watching their parents putting down each other all the time, how does that affect and what should believers do? How can, what sort of intervention should come at all? So Samuel, absolutely, these are extremely hard situations. You know, when we're going to be looking into the parenting, chapters on parenting, we will begin to see that a home, a good home for a children involves the unity of parents. And when that doesn't happen, children are exasperated. In fact, Ephesians 6 talks about it. Fathers do not exasperate your children, right? So there are times and there are situations where parents continue to be in severe conflict with each other, the children being pulled into a dilemma like this. And so the instructions that I think we can pick from here is one, if it begins to significantly affect the children, I mean, the word significant is so relative, you know, even anything that is not a piece at home can affect a child and it really depends on how a child takes it. I mean, there could be one child who's able to take a lot and someone who just can't even stand the fact that the parents don't even talk to each other, right? Or that they seem angry, they have just difficult expressions on their faces. So even as I'm saying that, it doesn't make holistic sense, however, to know that if it's significantly affecting, like I said in this case, the children were exposed to the sense of a violence over the mother. And there were earlier times where the father lashed out and the children hit the child when the safety of children, mental health concerns of children are at stake, probably a wiser thing to do is to stay separated for a point of time till the couple can get help and ways through which they could learn to cooperate with one another. And even as I'm saying this, I think I need to help us understand that maybe not all couples, even after counseling, come together like a unified team. Sometimes that doesn't happen. But what you're hoping to give them is at least some code of conduct. How taking away their focus of themselves and for the sake of the children bringing up a home that seems the least conflicting, okay? So there are times when couples are willing, they don't see eye to eye at all. There is absolute disagreement between the two. But through counseling sessions, they come up with an understanding that, okay, we will decide that these things is something we will not do, okay? We don't, so that definitely requires a lot of engaging in time, being intentional about it, keeping away one's ego, keeping away one's need for power, for authority, all of that. So that this takes significant periods of time because a lot of times couples are so much wallowing in their pain and their hurt that they want themselves to win, right? So they have to come to a place that the focus no more is on them because if they are not able to unite together, the next doable goal is focus on the children. And so there are times that that has also happened. That's not an ideal situation. I do say that's not an ideal situation. You're called to be together in love, but there may be times that that just doesn't help happen because of the personalities of the people who we are involved in. So in a case like this, I number one say, if it's significantly affecting the children, take a time of take period of separation where you're willing to get back and working on it even maybe from a distance to a point of time. So I have couples who are doing that, who don't live together, but live separate but still do come for counseling just to support, just because they care about the children and how this is going to impact them. And I see that's so beautiful because when God said the children are a gift, actually, that's what melts many parents to or many couples to live in peace with one another, build down their egos or be willing to overcome good for evil. And the way that God's instituted is perfect.  Unless, of course, they believe that it is the faith that they have in God. So yeah, this is the best answer I can give. I know not an easy one. Thank you. Okay, right. So we look into the next one, which is the death of a spouse. What happens in the death of a spouse? And I'll probably just pick up one or two scriptures. There's a lot more of scripture. You can take some time to read it. I'm reading through Psalm 68 verse five. It says, a father of the fatherless, a defender of widows is God in his holy habitation. Psalm 146, nine, the Lord watches over the strangers. He relieves the fatherless and widow, but the way of the wicked, he turns upside down. So we know that losing a spouse to death is an extremely, if you look at, there is something called as a stress scale and the highest stress in a human being is felt at the death of a spouse or a child. So we see that it is an extremely painful thing, but scripture shows that the Lord is the one who brings about comfort. The Lord is the one who brings about defense, who watches, who relieves, who is the one who establishes the living spouse. And with God's help to get them back on moving forward, completing whatever is left in store for them. We also see from 1st Timothy five, three to 16, I'm not going through that, but it shows how as a body of Christ and maybe as extended family, there are instructions that are given as to how you take care of those who have been, take care of those who are widowed, okay? And you will see a lot of things that have been given, that are given as instructions. So being able to minister to them, to support them, to comfort them, ensuring that there is a protection for them and not left to any kind of an exploitation. So that's from 1st Timothy five, three to 16. You can just take some time to read it. The last part we're going to be looking at is death and remarriage. In this, there are two verses I'd want to bring up. Maybe someone could read these two verses. This is Romans seven, two and three, that's on page 135. Romans seven, two and three, and 1st Corinthians seven, eight to nine, if someone can read those two verses, please. Romans seven versus two and three. For instance, a wife is legally tied to her husband where he lives, but if he dies, she's free. If she lives with another man while her husband is living, she is obviously an adulteress, but if he dies, she is quite free to marry another man in good conscience with no one's disapproval. You could go ahead and read 1st Corinthians seven, eight to nine also, Sam. Okay, 1st Corinthians seven, eight to nine. Now to the unmarried and to the widows, I say that it would be better for you to continue to live alone as I do. But if you cannot restrain your desires, go ahead and marry. It's better to marry than to burn with passion. Right, thank you, thank you, Sam. So the instruction that's given here is that a widow or a widower is free to be married once, if they choose or if they desire to after the death of their spouse. And we, as even as a church, we support that and we come alongside to help and bless their lives. However, having said so, it is important that if there is a remarriage that takes place, there should be definite preparation because it is again a place of adjustment where there are two families coming together, probably each having their own set of children where they're gonna come together to come into a blended family. A blended family is one where there are children from either sides of the spouse, either side of the couples that come together that becomes a blended family. So being able to prepare themselves on working with each other and also in a way that helps the entire family come together and join together in love and working together as a new family. So there should be prior preparation that happens when a person does choose to remarry. So we looked at these four challenges. We looked at an unsaved spouse. We looked at the death of a spouse. We looked at death and remarriage and divorce and remarriage. So we've looked at the biblical instructions of this and do the best to adhere to whatever God has instituted. However, there could be cases in which there may be other choices that are made. We ask for the Lord's wisdom and seek the Lord through each of these choices and wait upon the Lord when these instructions may not go as per what scriptures has seen. But we yet believe and know that what God has said in his word is what he approves of, all right? Quickly, if there are no questions, we could close with a word of prayer. Is there any questions, any observations? A quick one or two minute and we can close. Okay, maybe not. All right, may I request Prabhakar? Would you please close with a word of prayer? Any person? Sure, go ahead. Father, we thank you Lord. Father, we come to your presence. Father, we wanna thank you for all the instructions, for your guidance, for your help, Lord. Father, we know Lord this marriage and family is sensitive, Father. We know, God, you are more interested than us, so, Father, you instituted marriage, your father, you instituted family, your father. Father, we pray, God, Jesus, that you will be able to follow your word and be asked that your Holy Spirit will guide us through you, Father, to be victorious, Father, even in this area of Father, to glorify your name, Father. We pray that you will bless each and every one of us for your glory in Jesus' name, Father. Amen, amen. Thank you, thank you, Prabhakar. Thank you all. Samuel, you said, wondering how, wondering how the unmarried amongst us are feeling, okay? Yeah, I think it'd be good to hear what the unmarried are feeling. It's, you know, God's there, God's in control, guys. So, just completely lay your hands on him and he will lead you through. Thank you, have a good and blessed week ahead. A reminder of the assessment once again, please do complete it before the 5th of November.  May you experience and enjoy the communion of the Holy Spirit. Bye-bye. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you.


Thank you for staying with us. You're still watching the breakfast on plus TV Africa It's time for a hot topic and this one talks about the coastal road from Lagos to Calabar and it says federal government coastal road To cost four billion an hour per kilometer and completion in eight years Joining me to have a conversation is Mohammed Abdulahi is a public relations analyst. Good morning, Mohammed Thank you for joining me Morning Nigerians all in my pleasure. All right, so we're talking about the coastal highway from Lagos to Calabar now This is supposed to cut through from Lagos to Ogun Ondo Daud Delta by Elsa on rivers Also a quai bomb and finally get into Cross river states what we're looking at a spread of nine states now this, you know Project says to cost about four billion era per kilometer and we're looking at 15 trillion in total and also another information is it will be Ready in eight years now. I just want to get some information about you. What do you know about this whole coastal road? Yeah, um It's a fantastic project. I think for a very long time. Nigeria has not had a Singular project. There's this guy got one and then and then monumental What do I mean by being monumental and got one is the fact that? this singular project is about taking More than at least 80% of Nigeria's current budget. I mean for this year If you look at the budget for this year is about 23 trillion. So we are saying in about eight years. We'll have Modern 15 trillion era spent on one singular project So is it is a very big and very very monumental project, you know And like you mentioned earlier is cutting across nine states of the Federation and if you look at the design of the project Is a five lane on each side? Which means a 10 lane project? and then In the middle of this 10 lane there will be provision and design for a rail line Which means it's a modern project Because you have provision for a road and then for a rail perhaps in the nearest future in the nearest future as well The country also be thinking of like instituting a rail on that corridor, which is fantastic so on the General is a good one, but I think what the hula-pah-loo has been is the cost of the project, but we should understand that big project cost big money you understand and Again, what is also important that people should understand is the fact that? This road is a coastal road is not Just on the road on a plain land you understand because if you look at for instance the distance between Lagos and Calabar or crossy bad the moment is more than 700 kilometers about 790 something kilometers You understand which means driving from Lagos on the existing road now We take with all the traffic jams here and there all the bottlenecks and perhaps due to bad road as well We take more than 14 hours for you to drive From Lagos to Calabar at the moment what we have but with the completion of this coastal road It is projected that it will take less than six hours from Lagos So you can see the monumental changes the differences between what we have now and what the government is planning I mean to spend this 15 trillion on so it's a big project because like I said earlier is something that is on On the on the coasts on waters. You understand so You don't expect what is spent on like on land points Stance, you know, you have bridges here and there you have all the beams and I'm not an engineer anyway I know but you have all pillars here and there so that's why this road is very expensive I'm not just to find the cost because like I said, I'm not an engineer. I'm not a surveyor, but I also understand That such for that definitely will cost more than if you are labeled on on a plain land So this is a nutshell this is in a nutshell is What the coastal road project is all about like the government has said perhaps is a public private partnership thing Because the government is also planning to have a toll on that road In order to recoup at least some of these monies that that is a mark to be spent in the next few years Okay, so I mean you've said a lot and I'm just going to write off, you know Information that you've given me so first let's talk about the cost then you said you're not an engineer So you don't you can't really ascertain how much it should cost But isn't this isn't this where accountability and transparency supposed to come in for instance There should be an open bid for whoever is going to take on the project Also, how do we know that it is not being inflated because you've seen in fact Let's talk about, you know the National Assembly and you've seen where there's budget padding where you know figures are being inflated Could this be a case whereby, you know figures might just be inflated as well and then don't we have to you know Just compare prizes with other projects like this. How much does it cost to actually create? One kilometer is that four billion, you know the actual amount in corridors like this So with costs, how do we you know ascertain the transparency from the government based on this project? That was a very big challenge a very very big one. I think perhaps the Minister of Works Senator Dave O'Mahe will be in a better position to answer this question, but With my little knowledge, I will say This is a very big challenge in Nigeria because I remember even the new EFCC chairman on an assumption of office around October July October August October last year if I'm correct made a statement and made a press briefing about how over-blooded project and over-blooded contract has cost Nigeria over 2.9 trillion in just two years So yes, if people are raising the fears, if people are scared and afraid that perhaps this project is also over-blooded I think you don't want to blame some persons You don't want to blame these critics because perhaps I'm sorry to say is our culture here that whether it's government or private a project to have the culture of Inflating the cost is really Unfortunate, but it's like it's our culture most times in government if you follow tracker for instance What they do bring awareness to you know government projects Across the country you see some of these things that projects are being inflated here So perhaps yes, there's possibility because like you rightly mentioned The government in her open bid and it's been I think it's been the culture of governance here and some of these monumental project that we've had whether it's the train construction The government just with wakes up one day and then you know grant contract or issue contract to a particular Agency or a particular company and so on without having an open bid I think this is a major challenge here because like rightly mentioned I'll agree with you that This kind of a project should have been like an open bid where you have all the companies that things They have the way with that and the capability and the capacity to you know execute this kind of project Compete and and and you know put up their bid and the best Come not necessarily the cheapest please because sometimes the cheapest isn't the best but the best company that can handle such Is granted but it's also not our culture like I said the fake In our Mondays which used to be on Wednesdays would just wake up and say we are issues in social contract So so so so social contract which in my own opinion should be Particularly for projects that are monumental in such nature. I I also understand the fears of Nigerians It is being alleged and I think it's confirmed also is this that the Chaguri group I mean Chaguri corporations that are very very close. I mean to to to mr. President Leading this project. I mean the high-tech company that is constructing this for that so people feel Is a thing of perhaps a table and so on and so forth and then because if you are if you remember The Chaguri leader was part of the confidant That was how he was described as part of those who are complete mr. President to Corp 29 in in Dubai Late last year you understand so perhaps yes, there might be no trust There was no transparency in issue the contract But I think what Nigerians will focus on is the fact that yes In these eight years as perhaps the government this government will be because we only know for yet Constitutionally now perhaps if they will extend to eight years in the eight years that these government perhaps would be What I think Nigerians to focus on is that this jet is executed as stated by Honourable Minister Senator Project might take up to eight years And then for billionaire a kilometer Total in about 15 trillion era perhaps in the next eight years So I think that this should be our major focus now since the contrary has already been awarded. You understand and will keep tabs on Development as Nigerians Okay, so still staying on cost because another thing that we know of and that you rightly said was the fact that they are going to Create tolls now these toll stations You know are going to be about five thousand around the average so for cars and you know trucks as well And well the good thing about this is that each tolling station would have restaurants and you know Parking different amenities that you can just even fuel stations as well that you can just have just each Just by each tolling station. Well now here is my question because since we're talking about custom If this is being funded by the government, why do you have to toll it? Because I I want to believe that you know the government takes taxpayers money and in return You create infrastructure You give them certain amenities just to improve the livelihood of Nigerians So if this is a project that has been funded by the government by the government Why do they have to toll it and still ask? This same taxpayers that they've gotten money from to pay for the road as well for the next for stable future Yeah, I think it's simple is because the government is really trying to equip money the fact is We can't say Nigeria is totally booked, but seriously we needed a lot of money for so many things security Food so many things across board So if you remember earlier, we mentioned that this project is totally about 15 trillion there perhaps even inflation is not even factored in So I am also very skeptical that perhaps in the next two three years There might be with you so and if you look at 15 trillion like I mentioned earlier It is more than 70 or even 80% of the total budget as such today of 2024 so how do you spend 80% of your budget? I mean for one year on a single project in the next eight years You understand, you know, and remember where your money economy all of our earnings perhaps eighty seventy percent Good oil is on a lower sales across the world. You understand one we don't even know what the next eight years looks like You know, that's why I said perhaps even inflation is not part of it. So there are so many factors, you know So one government is trying to do is actually to recoup back some of the bad not all but some of the monies in order to also have Know the opportunity to execute all that project. So I think in this In in in this, you know kind of situation, I wouldn't blame the government to tell you seriously because You know, the challenges are Enomos we have so many things to do with money And then if you are trying to build in the next eight years a singular project just one project With 15 billion and perhaps I will create a lot of advantages.  So I don't think the government should be totally blamed for this because It's a huge expenditure and then, you know, it's it's our own doing as citizens to also help the government in occupying Some kind of revenues in order to also Find such to execute order tasking projects All right, I know that in some countries I think in Italy for instance They have major roads and then they have tolls and most times the the money recovered from those tools are to maintain You know such roads, so I can understand that if because I know one thing that we say in Nigeria is that we don't have a very good Maintenance culture. So you're seeing the roads Dilapidating you're seeing buildings. You're seeing so many things that are just not maintained And so I know that is important to maintain this road So if the money that the government is recovering is for the maintenance, then why not? But I understand you as well, you know talking about just getting more money because that's a huge Project in fact is a mega project because if we're talking about 15 trillion Naira for just one and since you said we don't even know what inflation is going to be like Definitely the government needs more money to be able to put in other sectors as well such as Education healthcare and you know just any basic amenities power that the people need But now I want to talk about continuity. I mean the government that we have the present administration is for the next four years So for instance provincial that is not the same ruling Administration in the next four years. What is continuity of this project going to be like? Is this something that is going to move past? Administrations or is it something that maybe a new administration might just come and say, you know what? I want to do my own thing and so this project might just be abandoned because now The the current minister for works is, you know projecting about eight years for this and we are not sure The present administration is going to be there for the whole eight years This is a very challenging question This is a very big problem that we've had over the years yes from federal level to take an even local government level continuity Exactly that's why I had to ask that question Every leader wants to come and shine on his or her own terms Okay, I don't want to continue with my credit sometimes even With parties that are same. Yes, we've had these challenges across state The same party different leaders and then you have abandoned projects everywhere Because they want to create their own they want to have their own name, you know But thank God for Lagos for instance if I if I may use Lagos as an example Lagos have been able to succeed to this little extent in my own estimation because of Continuity in governance. You understand. Yeah, if we realize from the days of the present the present President as governor Up until now you've had, you know, really no major abandoned project from one You know from from one administration to the other They understand that yes, this is the state We are same party. We are same people. There's nothing wrong in continuing to look at even the rail The intracity rail that was lost commission across Lagos. You understand This is something that has been in design for more than 24 years, you know successive administration design this they got to this stage and now it's been completed by Governor So I think so this is something that other state and even the federal government should emulate because continuity is very very important perhaps In the sense that you know, this project are even very meaningful to Nigerians. You understand So yes, Nigerians should should focus on this and then should plead with successful government Lobbyist pressure group to continue project that have impact With Nigerians for instance If we talk about continuity for instance the empower program has been suspended by this by this government They are both APC the past position was President Muhammad of Buhari APC this same administration have Suspended empower for instance some of even though we know perhaps maybe is because of the corruption That has to do with the humanitarian Ministry, yes, but I think this is a big challenge for us and we have you are very right If perhaps we have a change the government in the next four years Perhaps opposition look I read some of the things that the PDP candidate article wrote about the coastal Highway, I mean two days ago or yesterday if the opposition party got End of power in the next four years. I want to believe perhaps they might not continue with the project. Yes, you know Perhaps or maybe even if they will continue they will want to change the contractors and so on so forth So but I think in essence what is important is that what I is the opposition or even a successful government From the same party. What is important is that there should be continuity. You understand The successful administration should succeed in implementing Policies and projects of their predecessors that are of interest to the masses without necessarily abandoning them Exactly. I mean rightly said because at the end of the day, it's something that would improve the lives of Nigerians So that should be the goal that is paramount even more than your own ambition to say. Yes I want to shine. I want to do my own thing and I'm also the Nigerian society of engineers have said that this would actually impact the state's economies So we should be thinking about about the economy of Nigeria We should be thinking about how to you know, just raise funds grow our revenue grow our GDP and make sure that everybody is happy Anyway, this is where we have to wrap it up on the segment. Thank you so much for coming It was a pleasure having a conversation with you Thank you very much. I was not there. Good morning Nigerians. Thank you All right, we've been speaking with Mohammed of Delahi is a public relations analyst And we've been talking about the coastal road from Lagos to Calabar Where the Minister of Works has said is going to cost about four billion per kilometer And we're looking at 15 trillion in the next eight years where it will be completed We'll go on a short break and one return we'll be looking at our next hot topic This one talks about a toxic cough syrup and naphthaq. Please stay with us


Dunedin described as an endearing city of fine unspoiled Edwardian and Victorian architecture and acknowledged home for learning, heritage, arts and culture in New Zealand. But to gravel rally buffs it's important for another reason. If Dunedin is considered one of the world's great small cities then it's host to one of the great gravel rallies of the world. Welcome to the Stadium Cars International Classic Rally of Otago. Over the past couple of decades it's attracted some global rally sensations. Jimmy McRae, Didier Oriole, Stick Bloomfest, Yuhar Kankinen and Michelle Mouton to name a few. This year the classic has attracted another couple of high profile names. Former British Rally Champion Alistair McRae returns as does NZ's own WRC hero Hayden Padden. They join a regular handful of top-notch classic competitors. But this story is not just about the front riders. There are a raft of drivers and cars in the 2015 classic all with their own tale to tell. Local rally driver Mark Lawton swapped his driving gloves for a microphone to bring you some of their stories. Alistair McRae, we're at the start of the Otago rally in the Octagon. You were here a few years ago but you've come back this year with your own car. Tell us about it. I was here in 2009 and we were leading the rally when the engine went. And then the organisers needed to put a deal together. They've got me down with my own car which has only done one event. It's a Group 4 escort and really looking forward to the event. It's fantastic roads, a great event and just looking forward to getting out there. Obviously Hayden's doing a lot of mileage at the moment. He's going very well in the WRC. He's shown some great speed. But there's also a lot of other New Zealand drivers that will go quick as well. So I think tomorrow morning it's quite a long stage to start. We'll see if we can get a good rhythm going and push as hard as we feel we can. Hayden Padden, we'll just interrupt you while you're signing some posters here. Great to have you at the Otago rally. You're on a world rally programme. What makes you come to Otago or want to come to Otago? For me it's one of the most enjoyable rallies in the world and some of the best roads in Israel. I guess it's the closest I get to home as well and to come and drive a BDA is a lot of pleasure. So really looking forward to this weekend. So you talk about driving a BDA quite different from what you drive in your everyday job. What sort of things do you have to think about when you jump into a BDA? Yeah, it probably couldn't be more contrast than to be honest. But I think when you come back to a classic car it seems like it's in slow motion to what we're used to. But it's almost like a jeep boat as well. You've got to steer it on the throttle. So lots of sideways looking out the side windows and it's the way rallying should be. Derek, you're what we call our local hope this year.  Yeah, I think I said in the paper to break later and exhilarate earlier. And so you're going to stick to that? We'll be watching tomorrow, you realize. I'm going to try my best, Lordy, but look, it's a great event. I really enjoy it. Some good competition this year and, you know, if we put a new engine on the car and gearbox, so I'm really looking forward to giving it a good threshing. Marcus Van Kling, you're the first non-40 scored on the road. What's in store for you this weekend? I think we'll give it a good crack, Oregon. It's the best looking car, obviously. So, you know, we'll see our stage 1-2 go and then we'll play it. Well, yeah, it's a long rally and, you know, history goes to. You've got to be there on the last day, so I'm planning to be there or thereabouts. So there we go. The car's about to get underway as they go over the start ramp behind me very shortly. But of course, tomorrow's where it all starts when they get out on the gravel. Good morning, girls. Good morning, Mark. Debra and Heather. Now, you guys are the only all-girl team in the classic rally and you've got an iconic car here. Tell us about the car. It's a wee two-litre turbo starry and motor in it. We've got a nice wee dog box now and it's really set up nicely at the moment. You're seated in the top 10. Do you have a plan for today? I guess you've really got to start off quite fast, otherwise you get left behind. We'll just keep it on those grippy lines and laugh and giggle like we normally do. Heather, you sort of keep everything together in the passenger seat, don't you? Yeah, I try and tell her where to go. It's the only time she listens to me. So it's cool what's written down and we've been through on Wrecker and checked our notes. So they're looking good. 10 straight years in the Otago Classic Rally and Peter, you're a great campaigner. You've got the trusty Toyota Starlet here in for a good day. Well, I hope so. Yeah, it's been good to us every other year, so I don't see what should be any different. And I think it's fantastic husband and wife rallying. Take the wife out there. Does she tell you where to go? Always, but, you know, it's great when both get involved because it's quite a selfish sport of only the husband's doing it. I think when you're both involved, she realises the costs are involved and she never queries, but I need some money to repeat on the car. There's no hesitation to just get spent. And obviously a lot of trust in the relationship. Cherie, you enjoy sitting in the passenger seat? Absolutely. Yeah, it's a pleasure to sit beside him. It's the only time he does listen to me. Departing the Scenic Circle Hotel, Special Stage 1 is 70 kilometres to the north of Dunedin, but Jeff Judd never makes it. Jeff, we're heading out to the first stage. Here you are on the side of the road. I thought the distributor cat was just slightly skewered coming out of Hampton, and then Smithy found some plug leads. He didn't think we were right, so I don't know. You've got it going right for 800 metres and now it's gone flat again, so... How many stages have you done? Zero, thank you. The stages of the day, and clearly there's been a lot of commitment from the drivers, but have a look at the sort of commitment these spectators are putting in. The road's nearly blocked out here, and there's lots and lots of spectators. Plenty of commitment to get to actually see the cars. Drama this morning in the first four stages, Derek Aceham with a blown engine just nine kilometres into the first stage. No problems at all with the car. You know, just had a near the end of the long one there. At first we caught the car in front, and then just an uphill happen, got a bit sideways and naturally coming from four drivers, I'll just keep it pinned and it'll come out, but no, it should keep going around. Number seven, Andy Marvin. You've been following a bit close. Yeah, unfortunately in that stage, we caught up to the car in front of us and one of our Aussie brothers, and he couldn't see us behind him clearly. Wouldn't pull over, so when he dropped the clutch, it smashed the windscreen and he pulled over about 100 metres up the road and we kept going without a windscreen, so it was pretty unfortunate. So you got the crew working furiously there, you'll be right to get out to stage five? Yeah, we've got us to be a window there, so other than this, the car's going really well and we're enjoying the rally so far. Pretty special car you've got here, it's a V8. Yeah, it's a five litre V8 and an old 74 Capri. We usually have a few V8s, but this year I'm the only one. And you've got young Nikita in the passenger seat again, I think this is her third year and I see she's going through pace notes there, tell us about that. Yeah, it's her second year on notes and third time she's done the rally, so she did it blind the first time and then we started teaching her notes at a few hill climbs and rally sprints and did notes last year and she's done an amazingly good job of it. So Craig, from Belcluth, normally a co-driver in the Otago rally, is this your first Otago rally? Yes, this is my first go as a driver. You've got young Daniel Mills in the passenger seat, his father's pretty well known around these parts. Is this his first go at co-driving? No, this is his fourth go at co-driving for me. We've done three Ketlins rallies but this is his first time with the Otago rally and first time on notes. Well, he hasn't got you last yet today? Only once. He's got me last on the touring stage, so there's a couple of words said, he's only young and rural learning and it's still part of the game. One of the interesting things about the Otago rally is not only all the New Zealanders that do it but there's a whole lot of Australians that come over every year.  I've got with me here, Bernie, and how come you're here? Well, I think you nailed it actually. I've been across here and spectated a few times in the past and I've also come here to help service a couple of other Aussies that have been here in the past and I thought, well, it's probably my turn so, yeah, I'm here this year having to go at it. Now, the car you've got here, Bernie, is an Isuzu Gemini, it's actually a New Zealand car. That's correct, yeah, yeah. It was originally Malcolm Guds car and last year it made a mind to Peter Light. I've done a deal with Malcolm to run the car and then Peter's kindly offered me the opportunity to have a go in the car as well. So, here I am. It's been a classic day at the classic rally of the Otago. Just one more gravel stage this afternoon before they head into the all-important super special stage.  You were quite firmly within the top ten. We get to the end of the day and what's the problem now? Yeah, we noticed some noises in the depth on the transport stage back this afternoon so after some exploratory service, we've found some teeth missing off the groundwell so it's early drinks for us. Oh, the roads are fantastic. Drivers' roads, like, there was no let-up, there was no rest. It was fantastic. The roads are awesome. How on day two, how do you write Otago Rally? Yeah, Otago Rally. I've done it before. It's probably one of the best rallies around, especially with the roads. A bit drier this year than you would normally expect down here but not really enjoying it, great roads and good fun. The car's gone really well. It's obviously, it's a full Group 4 spec Escort as they run back in the late 70s, 80s, BDG engine, Atlas AXL, tension on it but non-adjustable, their classic stuff and, you know, really good car, great fun to drive. Today's roads are quite different to yesterday. Yeah, for sure. They're more on the shire side and very fast in flow and some of them really, really quick and a lot of overcrest, turning overcrest. Probably a little bit Finland, like Finland in places so difficult to make notes for and obviously you've got to be committed on the roads. Bro, and you hit a bit of an off in stage six yesterday, tell us what happened. It was a bit of a shame, really. We probably got the wrong pace note, I think. I didn't quite get it right in the recce so I was doing what I was told to do but what I was told to do was wrong. So, yeah, a bit of a spill. You weren't able to finish the day but you got the car back here for day two. Doesn't look like it was too badly damaged. No, we were pretty lucky really. It was a bit of a crash, you know, so got away with it. We had a few problems getting through the last few stages, the steering column collapsed and we had a steering wheel that was doing this and then we blew the gearbox in the last stage. So we put a road car gearbox in it, no limited slip diff, it's good for about 180 mile an hour in top so it's going to be, I don't know, it'll slow us down or speed us up, we'll see, it's going to be great. You've previously been seated number one in the Otago rally many years ago, what year was that? I think that was 1976, which says a lot really, I shouldn't be here. Oh, you should and we love having you as part of the rally. So back in those days you were a regular campaigner in the national championship, what sort of car? RX3s, I competed in the 76 international and RX3 and we were fortunate enough to get eighth overall so I was pretty happy with that. This is your first rally in the Ford Escort, you've purchased it from Andy, it's previously got third in this event, there's many of them in the field, there's obviously a reason why everybody chooses them. Yeah, I'm finding it a challenge actually, I'm noticing it's so much heavier and it doesn't react as quickly in corners, it's sort of a technical thing and it's also my ability to adapt to it and I'm actually not as happy with it as I'd hoped I would but it's not the car's fault, this car's got third in this event and so I'll blame me at this stage. Well Marcus, the sticker says it all way, the Group B days, what's so special about this car? Well we've built it up as a new shell basically just to, well that Mazda used to run back in the early 80s and as good as we get to, well they were so yeah, it's just got the body kit here and it runs the same sort of engine a 30B profile port, you know, 300 horsepower. So it's a full replica of the original Group B Mazda that they used to run? Yes, as good as we could build one in New Zealand so it's pretty much as close as we can get and yeah it's gone really well. We're trying moments to save their brakes but we're up to second now because McCree's had a puncture so yeah I think we're in a good position, you know, for a podium providing, you know, it's a long rally still to go. Great, you've had a good weekend you're running a fifth day overall. Some of your Australians seem to come over and do the Otago rally, can you tell us what the attraction is? Oh, it's just the class rally, it's just look at the opposition you've got, the field is fantastic and the event, the roads just awesome and don't forget I'm a Kiwi too so In the car, the BDA escort you lease that car over here, tell us about the car? It's a steam used car from Kamsa, it's an RS8-800 it's very similar to my car in Australia I know Dean pretty well so he looks after me, it's great, just really love it. It makes it an easy way to go rallying, I guess the car can be prepared you turn up and it's ready to go and you jump in and drive. Oh, it definitely helps doing it here because it's a fair logistic battle to bring it from Australia in container, spares plus your service crew so that's you know, it's a big ask to do that. So I guess you would say the hard part of the rally's over and done with now with the long stage, how are you going to play it for the rest of the afternoon? Oh, I think if you say I'm coming fifth I'm happy if I thought I could ever finish in the top 10 I'll be wrapped, so I'm just happy it's fantastic, so it'll be take it easy I think. Well Hayden, setting some impressive times this morning and you're actually now just one second off the overall leader of the Otago rally. We're just doing the same thing as what we were yesterday, just driving our own rally and enjoying it and probably if anything just trying to drive it a bit straighter and a bit smoother today I think that's probably the best way to get the fastest time so it's good but obviously a long way to go I'll be a bit of a sting on the tail so we need to keep a clean pair of heels. I see the service crew here working on the car, it's a lot of work keeping these older cars going isn't it? Yeah well they are a bit more basic I guess he's not too much to them but they obviously do need a bit of maintenance and keep an eye on things so the guys have been doing an amazing job the last couple days and these are the guys that are always with me working, best mates and they can put a lot of passion into it. Can you tell us about these WRC cars and the difference? It's a different car to a fish like there's absolutely no comparison to this sort of car but you know the Hyundai is just an amazing car to drive and to be part of a factory team is a dream come true and you know when you're in those cars they do absolutely everything you want as a driver the team is working tirelessly to be able to be winning so to be in that environment is great but obviously there's a lot of pressure to perform as well. John Kenard, what a ride you were having. Yeah it is, it's pretty special it's the beginning of our 10th year together so I think he's out there trying to perform just for that. But sitting in this escort must be quite different to what you do every day. Yeah it's vastly different than the world rally car I thought it was going to be more different in the past when you come back to New Zealand after you've been somewhere and you're really tight twisty stages you come back here and you physically have to stop yourself from reading the next note like that but now we're going quick enough that you do have to read notes fairly quickly as well. Is he scaring you at all? No it's all pretty good, it was under control most of the time, it was odd times when we had missed gears and things and then sort of slidging into corners and neutral but other than that it was good. While not competing in the classic division there was another team here with WRC experience. Keen Block what brings you to the Otago rally? Well I first did this rally back in 2007, it was only my third year racing and I had a deal to come down here and race part of the championship and I knew how amazing these roads looked on cameras so I wanted to come down and visit them myself so I did four events that year and it was a really big learning experience but I enjoyed this event when I come down here but I ended up crashing out before the end so I wanted to come back and try and finish it. Tell us about the car. Yeah well this was the first car that we built with M Sport to race Gymkhana Rallycross and Stage Rally and it's built as far as Stage Rally to fit into the US regulations which is a 2 liter turbocharged engine so it's a WRC car that they build from M Sport but we adjusted it to do all these other different things so it's worked quite well as a Gymkhana car, did Gymkhana 4 it's done a bunch of Gymkhana demos around the world raced rallycross for one season and now we just use it mainly to do stage rallies wherever we can around the world. Have we delivered with the roads at Rally this year? Yeah definitely, there's a couple rougher roads in here that aren't really my preference but a couple of the roads are some of the best in the world including the Gorge road that we did this morning it's one of my favorite roads to anywhere so really enjoying it as much as I can possibly can. Ken wasn't on his own enjoying the final stages of the 2015 Otago Classic. X-Pad Kiwi Grant Walker came from Melbourne local Regan Ross who regularly features in top three battles had to settle for fourth on this outing. Marcus Van Kling grabbed third place and importantly Maximum Points in the National Classic Championship and in his second attempt the best the Ozzy Bay Scotsman Alistair McCrae could master was second but in light of the competition it's hardly surprising that Kiwi sensation who's reviving New Zealand's interest on the world rally stage had left his mark. Well this truly has been a classic at the Otago Classic Rally not only has Hayden Padden won the rally by some 11 minutes we've really witnessed something here because he's also won the National Round by two and a half seconds. It's a bit of a bonus obviously we never came here to do that but it's great for Tony and the team for allowing me to drive the car but obviously we had to push a little bit in the last couple of stages the deficit was getting to a point where it was achievable we never came here this weekend to push hard but we had to try a little in the last couple and it worked out.


The recording is on. Welcome back everyone to our second lecture on BC213, the End Times. We've just started talking about the signs of the End Times, what are the signs that we should be looking for or looking at which give us an idea or indicate to us how close we are to the rapture of the church, the coming of the Lord, the end of the church age and the beginning of the tribulation. We're trying to understand or get some understanding of that. So the first two signs we said that are very, very important. One is the fact that Israel has been formed as a nation since 1948. A second one is that Jerusalem has been taken by Israel and has become a point of conflict, a center of conflict for many nations. Many nations are involved in this. The third sign that we're looking at is the temple mount. The fact that the Jews are ready to rebuild the temple. Now, why is this important? Because from our understanding of Scripture, there has to be a literal temple in which the Antichrist will do all that the Bible says he will do. He will set himself up in the temple of God, the Bible says he will stop the sacrifices and he will speak blasphemous things against God. So Bible is very clear, it's a literal temple. Now, some people, you might hear some people say that, oh no, this is the spiritual temple, not a literal temple. But we say no, it is a literal temple because of the way the Scriptures describe in Daniel chapter 7, 8 and 9, what Jesus said in Matthew 24, when you see the abomination of desolation set himself up in the temple of God, what Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, talking about the Antichrist setting himself up in the temple of God, what John wrote in Revelation 11, that the city is given up to the Gentiles and they will tread and defeat the city and the temple. So based on all these passages, we're saying that there has to be a literal temple, a physical temple, not just a spiritual temple. And the fact that the Jews are well prepared, they've made all the preparations ready to rebuild the temple and resume their own sacrifices, that is again a strong indication that we are very close. If they didn't bother, they're not interested, they won't do anything, then you'll be like, hey, where will this temple come from? How will it happen? But it's not like that, the people are ready to do this. So it's a very strong indication. Now, number four, I will just do a few more and say, is about the 10 leaders that Daniel spoke about. And we will see this next year when we study the book of Daniel, I'll just give you an essence of what that is. In Daniel chapter two, if you want to just follow with me, I'll just give you an idea and then we will look into this in detail next year. In Daniel chapter two, when Nebuchadnezzar has this dream, which Daniel tells him the dream and the interpretation, he sees this great big image. And if you go with me to verse 33, Daniel two verse 33, this image, its legs were of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. And so this image, it has feet of iron, legs of iron, which we will explain next year, which represents to us the Roman Empire. Its feet, so its feet, which means there are 10 toes, partly of iron and partly of clay. And then you say, okay, what does that mean? If you look at verse 42, or let's say from 41, whereas you saw the feet and toes, toes representing 10 toes, partly of porters clay, partly of iron, this is verse 41, the kingdom shall be divided, yet the strength of iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay, verse 42. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men, but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay, verse 44. And in the days of these kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, and the kingdom shall not be left to another people. It shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms and it shall stand for ever. So Daniel 2.41 to 44, Daniel is talking about iron mixed with clay, the iron representing people of the previous empire, the Roman empire, mixed with clay, clay representing people of all other, the seed of men, that means all other languages and tribes and all, they're all mixed. So in that region, in the region of the former Roman empire, you will see that iron will be mixed with clay and then there will be these 10 toes, the 10 toes representing 10 kings or 10 leaders. So, and he says, when you're seeing this happen, in the days of these kings or these leaders, God, the God of heaven will set up his own kingdom. So in the former Roman empire, which today we understand, it covers what we refer to as the European Union. So when you look at the European Union, there are so many countries, I think like 20 some member countries, small, small, small countries all across Europe. They're loosely held, they're part of this European Union. And each of these countries, there are a mix of iron and clay, that means there are a mix of the original, the people who belonged to that region. And clay means from all other parts of the world, all mixed, very loosely held. And there are going to be 10 kings or 10 leaders coming up from this area. Now, what will happen is, as we go through Daniel, we will see that these 10 leaders, there will be another little horn coming who will overpower three of these 10 leaders and will come into prominence. So I'll just give you an idea. If you go with me to Daniel chapter seven, let me give you the exact, we will just look at verse 20. And the 10 horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn that had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows. So verse 20, Daniel seven, 20. So in Daniel seven, he sees another beast with 10 horns, which is a parallel to the 10 toes. And then he sees another little horn, which is the Antichrist, who overpowers three of these horns, that means three of those 10 leaders, he overpowers them and they help him come into power. This little horn that speaks pompous words is the Antichrist. And you will also see, also in, let me see here, chapter nine, I think it is. Let me just give you another reference to this. So sorry, Daniel eight, and he's explaining to us in Daniel eight, versus nine and 10. He talks about this little horn, which is referring to the Antichrist. And it is this little horn that that's, you know, that will, Daniel eight, was 12. This little horn will oppose the daily sacrifices. And he will do all of these things. So that little horn is actually referring to the Antichrist. Yeah. Okay. So the point is this, and we will look at this in detail, that there are these 10 toes or these 10 horns, which represent 10 leaders who come from this region, this loosely held region, which we know is the European Union, which was part of the former Roman Empire. So we look, we look carefully at, okay, yeah, there can be 10 leaders who can come up from the European Union. Like the, you know, they could be the presidents of the, now there's many presidents, the presidents of 10 of the most powerful nations from among this loosely held region. Okay. So you're looking, what is 10 most influential people coming out from this region? And then what Daniel also said is there will be a little horn, a little leader who'll come from another place. And then Daniel eight, he explains that will be from one of the regions that belonged to the Greek Empire. So he, Daniel said, you know, I talked about Alexander the Great, after he died, his kingdom was divided into four parts. And from one of those four parts will come this little horn. So then you're also looking. Okay. There's going to come some leader from what was a part of the former Greek Empire. And he will overpower or he will influence three of these 10 leaders. So you're looking at that relationship. And these leaders will put them into power, but bring this little horn into power. That prominent one is Alexander the Great. So that is, so when in Daniel eight, he talks, Daniel talks about the goat and the ram. And so he talks about the ram, which had two horns, which represents a means in the Persians, then the goat, which had one very big horn, the goat represents the Greek Empire, very big horn that represents Alexander the Great, who became very powerful. But he died very young. And then in his place, four of his emperors became, his generals became leaders. Okay. So that part is already fulfilled. What Daniel did say is that from these four regions, a little horn will come, a little leader will come. Right. So now the fourth sign that we're looking at is what Daniel said, that there will be this region of iron mixed with clay. And from there, there will be 10 leaders coming. Oh, today it is possible. Right. That when we look at the European Union, so when the European Union was formed, many Bible prophecy people were very excited, saying it's happening. You know what Daniel said is happening, that this region is becoming a, like iron mixed with clay and we can actually have 10 leaders coming who will kind of work together. But three of them will be influenced by this little horn who is the Antichrist and through them he will come into power. So we are looking at this also happening and say, hey, just like what Daniel said, because Daniel chapter two says, in the days of these kings, the God of heaven will set up his kingdom. That means while these, in the time of these leaders, it's going to happen seven years. And then at the end of the seven years, the Lord Jesus will come and set up his own kingdom. So the fact that there can be these 10 emerging leaders who will help bring up the Antichrist into his place of power becomes very interesting for us in looking at what's happening politically in Europe and parts of Turkey and so on, Egypt, so on. So part of the Greek Empire, of course, Greece, Syria, Turkey, Syria, Egypt, those are the big regions. So you're looking at what is happening around there, how they are interacting with the European Union, what kind of relationship they are having with the leaders in the European Union. And you're looking at that and saying, yeah, because this is how it's going to play out, that these 10 leaders will support, actually three of them will be overpowered by this little horn who is the Antichrist, and he will come into power through their help. So you're looking at what's happening. Pastor, I'm very silly, don't if so please ignore it. So this what we are studying all about this end times. So the Bible is there for everyone. And the people who goes into the situation also, they also know this, right? They have the Bible in there, they can bring it and read. So if so, it's clearly it's telling about the future, right? They also can read and eradicate their defeat. And they can know what's happening before only they can take some steps to just eradicate few things like about the temple or about the fights and all. That's an interesting question. These are my thoughts. My thought is, first of all, I think many of these people won't pay attention to the Bible. Who's going to listen to the read the Bible? That's their attitude. I don't think, especially, you know, thinking about the European leaders, European Union, the leaders there, or when they come on this side, Turkey and Egypt, I don't think they even pay attention. They don't have any respect. They're not paying attention. So they wouldn't care. Even if somebody goes and tells them, hey, look, see, these things are prophesied. They won't, I think they won't pay attention. They are probably just, even if they claim to be religious, it's more of a nominal, formal thing. They may attend a service or a funeral in a church or something. But I don't think these leaders, at least as far as I know, there's no real believing, Bible believing leader that we're seeing there. There are such kind of leaders who only have a minister to tell them, like, this is what it's there in Bible and this is what happened. See, if we come to India only, if we have Prime Minister, there will be so many, so much team, intelligent team that, that give the suggestions. If it is such a big, an empire or a kingdom, when they have a ministers that, that to tell you, this is what's happening in the Bible and this is what. And about this Jerusalem also, about this lab and all these things, when they have a little concern on these things or it's God's divine plan, so it will happen like that, whatever they are, it's happened. It will happen because God, God has inspired and wrote the Bible. So one thing we can say is, whatever God has spoken will happen. But whether, you know, like you're saying, would there be people who will advise these presidents, tell them, hey, this is what the Bible says, maybe it can, maybe there could be people who are advising them, I don't know. I haven't heard of any such thing. I know one person who told me something, but I think he was just making it up. He came and he told me, oh, these people are studying the Bible and prophecy and all this. There's no proof, there's no evidence. So I wouldn't take him seriously. Could there be some people who are informing them and saying, hey, you know, the Bible has said all these things, maybe, I don't know. But will they take it seriously? I don't think so. They'll still do what they want to do. And, you know, for many of these people, it's more about staying in power, being elected, you know, every four years is election. I have to do something to keep myself in power. It's more about that rather than genuinely following God. Okay, we'll just look at one more. So the possibility of these 10 leaders coming in from that particular region, because Daniel was very specific in that region, not just 10 leaders anywhere, but from there, those who are mixed with the iron and clay, iron representing the Roman Empire, from those leaders, 10, you know, from that region, 10 leaders emerging, you know, today, it's something that we can actually see happening before our eyes and we keep looking at it. Last one, the possibility of a global currency system and identification system. You know, just again, this is also so amazing because, and I think I mentioned it before, maybe 30 years ago, just 30 years ago, we would not be thinking about a global identification system or global currency. When we wanted to go to the bank, you physically walk to nearest bank, write some paper, put money and get it out like that, you had to physically do things 30 years ago. Today, you can sit here in Bangalore and you can do anything in anywhere online. I mean, you can, yeah, things have changed so much in just last 30 years and identification. Now, even so many countries, including our country, India has a unique ID for every citizen. Not every may have got the other card yet, but it's there in place. Every person has unique ID and so many countries have implemented that. Some countries implemented many years ago, but other countries have implemented it. So you would, we would not even think, imagine 30 years ago, these things would be there, but suddenly within a few decades, everything is there.  From one bank, you can send money to any bank, almost any bank. It's all connected. Now, it was not like that. Just a few decades ago, it was not like that, so difficult. So in Revelation 13, when John wrote, and John wrote this 2000 years ago, that this Antichrist and false beast, this false prophet would set up a system, but everybody must receive the mark of the beast. And if they don't receive that ID, identification, they cannot buy yourself. He wrote this 2000 years ago, way ahead of time about people receiving some identification, people having to use that to transact by himself. And we look at it literally, these things have come into place in the last few decades. Before that, it was not there. But John wrote about it 2000 years ago. So we are saying, Hey, this is happening in our day, in our time, right before our eyes, buying and selling, using ID to buy and sell. It's happening in our day, our time. So we're saying, wow, it is possible that if this Antichrist comes, and he has so much influence, he can introduce some system that I don't know exactly how it will look, but some system that says you have to have this ID, only then you can buy yourself. It's possible. People is preaching to not to have that. Not to receive the mark of the beast. And then how it will be, it will be like how we got the other card. If you don't have other, you won't be identified. So many things you can't do. Like that, it will happen. Like unknowingly, we'll do that. So, oh, okay. So your question is, will the Antichrist, I mean, will he introduce it in a way that makes it look very normal? I think that's the approach he will take. So if you want more people to participate, you have to introduce it in a way saying, hey, it's good for you. You join. Take this number, put it on you, on your foray at your right hand. I don't know whether it's a microchip or something. I don't know how it will be introduced, but it's good for you because if you have it, you can easily buy and sell.  First when they introduced not, okay, a few people started. Now it's like almost everybody is using it. It's like almost everybody.  Done. It makes it easy. It's a good thing for you. Makes it convenient. So my guess is that he's going to introduce it in a way that it's a good thing to have. But what we have to be careful of is the end result is to worship the beast. Now, that is the good. You have to worship this man. So how that will be introduced in packages, I don't know. There is a reservation. See, if you change your cash to a Christian, we won't get all the things which are there for a reservation people. So what they say is, if you change your cash or if you change your religion, you won't get all these things which were given by government.  If you change to Christian, that's how it's happening now in India. You won't get the benefits. Maybe like that. Like it should be, if it is done by Antichrist, it should be done in a very normal way that unknowingly it should happen. But the goal is to get them to worship the beast, the Antichrist. So I don't know how it will be packaged, but it will be put in such a way that it will draw the people. That is where John says, know this, the mark of the beast, it's 666. And the angels will want, do not receive the mark of the beast. So whoever is living at that time, they should watch and be careful and see how it is going to happen. So the main point is, we are living in a day and time when this is possible. It can happen. And technology is only advancing. It's making it easier to happen. And there may be some new things that are developed in the next few years that make it even more easy to implement something like this, where people can receive a mark on their body on the right hand. And maybe something, I don't know how it's going to, what can be implemented. There's actually even implanting chips inside the brain and all those kinds of things. So how quickly things can advance the next two, three years, we don't know. So we are in that place where Revelation 13 can actually be fulfilled. What's your question? I'm getting the answer. Yeah. Faster, like we have first discussed, like when John was writing some things, he wrote it according to the knowledge that he had. So this symbol of the beast, Triple Six, will it be literal or it is according to what he has known at the time he has written or it can be something different also. So John gave a literal number, like he said, know the mark of the beast. It is 666. So he gave that. Now, what exactly and how exactly that will be expressed, we don't know. Is it going to be, I don't understand.  John wrote what he saw. He saw 666, he wrote it as 666. But does that actually symbolize something or does it mean something different? We don't know. Yeah, that's why we have to be careful, like especially those living there at that time in Revelation 13, middle of the Tribulation. That's when they need discernment to know that what is the 666, how is it being expressed? The main test is, am I being drawn in to worship the mark of the, to worship the beast? We see, like, how the Antichrist introduces the symbol 366 is like an access to buy something and to sell, right? Yes. So is it possible for those people who are living at that time to take the mark of the beast just to trade and then still not to worship the Antichrist? I don't think so. Because from our reading of Revelation 13, it is connected. Worship the beast. So it's all like one, you can say like one package. So there's no like, okay, I'll take this and not that. Yeah, mark the beast. So it's like one thing. Yeah. Let me see. Any questions from those online? Any questions from those online? I hope all of you are following us. We're just having some discussions here inside the classroom. Any questions from those online so far? Okay. So let's pause here for today. We just have a little bit more to cover next week. We will go through the other signs and then we will do a full review. And I think with that, we will wrap up this course. So we might finish the course quite early. All right. So let's pray together and then we will dismiss. Can somebody pray and dismiss? Father, we thank you for this day, for this time, Lord, as we have studied about all those things, Father, help us to understand more and deeply, Father, so we can learn your word, Jesus. Thank you, Father. In Jesus name I pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Rowan. We'll continue this next week. God bless. Bye now.