Good afternoon, everyone. This is the I think is it are we March 16 meeting of the JCPC and seeing that we have a quorum my the first thing I need to do is make sure everyone can hear and be heard. And so I'll just call out names as I see them Alex.  Can you hear me now. Yes. Okay, sorry. Here. Mandy. And Pam. I'm here. Jennifer email but this is her once a month conflict with the time slot which this time slot actually seems to have been a problem for several people but and I haven't heard from her. So we're missing one person. And you requested so I'll ask you to lead off and today is really when we turn to what, what are we going to say in report, either in terms of recommendations or changes or with a focus on so everyone knows we, if you looked at last year's those of you have been with us we focus on the coming year. But then we can also be talking about it we are part of the five year plan to such the extent we have observations that we want to raise about the five years we can in the document. We don't have to but we can. So Sean, go for it. Thank you. Yeah, so exactly what you said Kathy in terms of the goal today and if there are any other questions that come up. There's at least one more meeting, maybe two so there are any other questions that I can answer, I can bring the those responses back next week in the packet. I did put some FAQs if you had time to take a quick look. I tried to add the questions I've sent been sent along that I didn't think were explicitly answered and in a meeting already and put responses to those so if there's anything you think was missed that you want to put responses to, again, let me know now or email me after. So, I sat down with Paul to just kind of go over the discussion so far the presentations you know he's been at several, several of these, several of these meetings and so he's heard the conversation as well. And so based on that, we wanted to convey some changes that he might look to make anyway that you might want to consider. So, some of those are things that you've already discussed to an extent so I was going to go through those now. Pam, you're going to ask about minute taker. So, I actually, everyone here has taken minutes, I'm willing to take minutes but the way I'm going to take them is I'm going to watch the tape afterwards. Okay, so. Herb has not taken minutes yet but he's not here so I can't get him next week. Okay, go for it. All right, so I'm just going to run through. There's six things that we discussed that changes he would look to consider have you consider. So one that you have talked about I think we're in agreement is delay in the snow plow, the $200,000 snow plows sidewalk snow plow. So we, you know here in the discussion, and here in go for his presentation I think we want to look at alternatives before committing to such a large purchase. So I think what we do is push that out a year and that'll give us time to kind of reevaluate. Number two, there was $35,000 in there for school vans that wasn't for a new school van it was to cover overages for previously approved school vans. And Kathy you asked a question about this. We have the, we still have money in our cost escalation reserve from last year. We've used some of it but we haven't used all of it and we have enough there where we could use that to pay for that $35,000 project so we can just pull that completely off the plan. And it makes sense we want to use all that money up before we request new money. So, let's see Pam wasn't here last year but we created a fund knowing that prices were coming in higher. And so I had, we didn't discuss it yet but I said did we spend it. And so, I guess the answer is no we didn't use some for DPW vehicle we've used some for police cruisers. And there's a few other purchases we're kind of waiting to see what the final price comes in out but there's, I think we've used about 30 to $40,000 of it so far. So there's room for that 35 to come out of there for the schools. So the third thing was, we were looking at the police cruisers and the schedule and we think this should actually be a three cruiser year not a four cruiser year based on the last couple years or they purchase for cruisers. And we've talked to Scott and he was fine with reducing the request for this coming year down to three. And it would be three for another couple years before it goes back up to four. So that would bring that item down from 300,000 to 225. I met with Ray from recreation, and I think you all heard his number one priority is the top dresser. And so talking to Paul and Ray a little bit. We would be comfortable pushing off the irrigation system project a year and replacing that with the top dresser which I do have a project request for my god I'll put it in the packet for today, I just forgot to do that. That we updated for that top dresser. The fourth one is looking at the unexpended balances and some of those interior exterior improvement articles, especially the balances that are three years old. We would be comfortable reducing those requests somewhat. We're thinking, reducing them by $25 or $50,000 each both the ones at the school, and the one at the town, because it does appear that there's some prior year money still available. The last one is the, there was a project in there and I can pull up the plan if it's helpful. There was a project in there for APD HVAC. And I think I mentioned this when we first went through is $65,000. And I think we're going to need to do that sooner than JCPC will allow. And so we would look to fund that project through one of those interior exterior improvement buckets that have been set aside in the past. So we could just pull that one completely off as well. That one's really sort of a critical project that we don't wait on. And I think that is it. Oh, and the last thing, and this was raised is the school bus so the electric school bus. If this committee does think that that's a direction we should move in, we talked about we right now is just the net cost of the bus in there it's not the full cost of the bus and we would likely need to appropriate the full cost of the bus. So if, if this committee does think that's a priority, I think we'd look to pull from old capital to fund that extra piece for the town to cover the full cost of the bus pull from old capital and then when the grant would come in. That would close back out to old capital, as opposed to taking the shares capital funds for it. And that's it. I, Mandy, go ahead, because I have a reaction to the set because I think you just got us to a balanced budget. Thank you and I were going to ask the same questions. So Sean, what's the balance on this with all of those changes. So let me, let me do that while you guys deliberate a little bit more. I think the other thing, especially since pause here is that we have heard a lot of interest in doing even more for roads, if possible. And so I don't know. There was no scheme behind that where it gets us to a zero side to update the numbers real quick to see what it looks like but I think we if there was funding left over. One of the things we're thinking is that roads would be a logical place for it. But I'm going to update that now. So can I, I'm going to ask one question while you're updating and then Paul on roads on the electric school bus at the very end of the meeting. We had a public comment that it's possible now to lease these and there's a company who's been leasing them with some experience in the state. And I looked them up after that they actually have experience outside Massachusetts and inside. So Sean you said we had met with them. I don't know what they got a full proposal. But if we like the idea of electric school bus, but really want a thorough S X exploration of this other option. Where do we go with that so we're not read. So, and so I have no idea whether that's half the cost, or you know a quarter of the cost and would we have to commit to one now and two later so I have no idea what the leasing you know what kind of commitment the company would want from us. There's in there. When I went on their website. They have a few places where they've been doing this for quite some time not necessarily meant there's at least one Massachusetts but there was one I think in Maryland. They're also leasing charging stations they're trying to make it easier to electrify the fleets. And so, so that's just, that's more of a question like I don't know where I go with it because I don't know have any idea whether. Yeah, I think we're, if we're going to look at something like that it's not a this year kind of thing. I think we need more time to evaluate that so they haven't done a proposal for us. I think Rupert alluded to still being some concerns around operations so we, I think we need to meet with them again and get them in here to actually give us a proposal. Again, the model sounds appealing. But we haven't seen numbers of what they would charge for the leases. And I think, regardless, if you do a lease. It's still going to increase the number quite a bit when we get out to year six year seven year eight when all the buses have theoretically been converted even if that's even possible to support our operations. The annual payments going to be quite large and what we've also seen is you have to replace batteries when they start getting that old so it's, you know, do do a battery replacement or just by a new bus at that point so I think we need to see the model and what the numbers look like and I wouldn't. I wouldn't expect that it's going to be something that's not. I would expect that it's going to be a large increase from what we currently spend annually on school buses so we just have to be prepared for that.  So then is our choice. Either this electric bus at that price, or diesel bus, rather than a first explore, because the urgency is such that we can't do without a bus. Yeah, so that was my takeaway from what Rupert says I need a bus. Every, you know, nine out of 10 years or eight out of nine years so yeah if if we were not to do do that bus then we would look to do a diesel bus instead which would be like 120,000. And there aren't hybrid buses I gather. I think there are some I haven't. I'm going to get off the electric bus but it's okay. I didn't have enough information to even think through what a recommendation would be. Yeah, last time, you know, several years ago when we were looking at the fully electric there weren't good hybrid options at that point. It does seem like the technology has changed quite a bit in the last four or five years so there could be hybrid options that I'm just not aware of that would be a question I can ask Rupert. Okay. Yeah, almost done updating this going to be one second. Alex, but while he's updating let's get anything else and pulse here so we should be making good use of his time Alex. Yeah, I'm just keeping on the electric bus because I feel like that's a very large expenditure. And as is so often the case one that we're having to make a decision I mean in an ideal world, we wouldn't be at the point where we need to purchase a bus, you know we could do this full we're not there so I guess back to and I don't know whether we ever got this answer and if we did I mean if we as a town are looking at our overall carbon footprint right is this where we spend an extra $300,000 you know the one something versus the 400 something because certainly school buses idle a lot and certainly I imagine like so I don't want to take what I think I know I would much rather know that these spew a ton of carbon and this absolutely makes sense versus spending that money elsewhere I don't love buying another diesel bus but just because it's the easy right just because it's what's in front of us doesn't mean it's the right decision like right so, and I don't feel like I have enough information to decide if this is the right place to spend that 300,000. And I think maybe the answer comes from Stephanie in terms of like, what's the biggest bang for our buck knowing we have to buy this bus. Yeah, I can. I can touch base with Stephanie and see if she can give us a more, just give us give this committee some guidance on. You know what's in the car what's in the plan and would there be better uses of this money and what this committee decide. Again, we need to we need to get a bus one way or the other so really be the difference between the 125 that we would need for the diesel bus and 370 that's being requested so you know that 250,000 or so is what you know is this the best way to spend $250,000. So, I'll touch base with Stephanie on that try to send something out to the group. Okay, I mean for me personally I'm, you know what I mean like at the end of the day, I don't pretend to know which carbon choices are the best and we actually have somebody who doesn't know that so I'm comfortable whatever Stephanie goes personally like so so to go I so. And I'm ready to share whenever you guys are we can go through the rest of the questions but I'm ready to share the what the chart looks like with those updates. Mandy and Pam did you want to comment on the school bus or should we go back to. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, while we were on the school bus. I share Alex's concerns. When we look at just even on our facilities budget the energy sustainability improvements that we started our 200,000 a year and the school bus. We didn't appropriate it within vehicles would use more than that, just for this one thing so I think we really need some help from Stephanie to see, you know, if the extra 250. This is where we should be putting it or what should we be doubling essentially doubling the energy sustainability improvement fund for the next year. Right because that's what it would do. In some sense. So, I think we just, I would want to hear from Stephanie. I had a general question and that was, we had the discussion about capital reserves and stabilization fund, and I needed someone to remind me why we do not show anything in the stabilization fund. Going forward, I thought I thought the intent was to continue to build up capital in that for for big capital projects. That's a great question. So we have the ability if this committee chose and it is something Paul and I have discussed to do a contribution to the capital stabilization fund directly. So if you didn't want if, if you didn't think the product there if you thought there were projects that we didn't need to do or could be delayed you could take that money and put it into the capital stabilization fund. I think what we know about roads is sort of the the offset to that if anything you do there means you're not going to put it into the roads. The other way panel, sort of the thought process behind that capital stabilization is that that's where all of our any money we didn't expend at the end of the year from our regular budget would go into that capital stabilization fund after making sure some other things are where they need to be. But that's how it's been built up so far as by any end of your surplus on the revenue side or the expense side would go into that capital stabilization fund. And was necessarily part of our 10.5% set aside for. On your panel when we had the big dip because of COVID, we, we would have had almost nothing in capital if we hadn't pulled in some reserve money so we brought in, you know, so there's an ability for stabilization purposes to say we still needed to do something, because we were trying to protect operating budgets, we did, we did, we're not trying we did protect operating budgets. So, Paul, did you want to come way in that I thought it was very healthy, helpful, healthy and helpful, what, what Sean came in with. Yeah, no, I think you're about the your advice is going to be really valuable I think, you know, Sean did a good job at pulling all this together I think the conversation you had on the electric school buses spot on the only reason we're really talking about is because we got this grant. But the, the expenses have gotten much higher and I think it's really you've asked the precise questions. I think we are still looking at how we can get more roads done that's what I'm hearing a lot about and if that's if you're in agreement with that that if you want to talk about that. And however you want to get to that. And I think the other component of the school bus conversation that I'll try to get some additional information on is the existing school bus the line. $150,000 in the plan for that bus as well so if you had the 370 for the new bus and then 150 for the line, you know, we're up to about $500,000. And what I still have a good picture of that I have to talk to Rupert about is whether it makes any sense to continue to invest in the line, because we've had so many issues with it hasn't found the road for months. They don't even know if the issues are the batteries right now because they're having other issues with with the vehicle. That bus was originally purchased with a Department of Energy Resources grant from the state. So, we have to look at sort of the rules of that grant but it has been several years since we got that grant I think it was back in 2016 or 17 we got that grant. So, it could be, you know, it may be time to get a new electric school bus but to not invest in that old bus right because that bus has been problematic and these new buses are supposed to be more reliable so we're going to get additional information on the status of the line. Sean that's the 150,000 for a battery. Yeah, that's 150,000 for batteries. Yeah. And it says I think it says batteries other because again they don't quite know if it's what the issue. There's something else going on with it besides the batteries. Alex.  I guess my question is roads versus sidewalks. If we're talking, you know, $200,000 or whatever it is, is there more bang for our buck in sidewalks than there are for roads like is there a balance. I think we use roads and sidewalks interchangeably in a way and but I think we but we do separate them out in the JCP in the capital plan so we can, however you think you want to divide that up would be good advice. All right Kathy would be helpful if I show you what the looks like now. All right so I've marked in red where we made changes so reduce this facility bucket down 150 and remove the HVAC replacement for the server communications room. And then we have similarly reduced this from 100,000 down to 50,000. And again the reason being that there's old articles that still have quite a bit of money in them. So one, one thing I didn't mention but I just forgot to write it down. Another recommendation of ours was for the field equipment. Instead of doing all the phases in this first year just do the first phase and do the second. There was a phase two do that next year. So I've reduced this down to 230 which was the phase one that Guilford proposed, and then I've increased the second year by the second phase. So here's the top dresser put in from recreation and then the irrigation systems pushed out. And then we've pushed this the sidewalk plow out. I've put in the 200,000 share the other the grant share for the electric school bus but it's coming from other so it's not pulling from this year's cash capital. I've taken out the special advance because we'll pay that from the cost escalation reserve fund and then reduce the police cruisers down to 225 to remove one of the cruisers. And so when I do all that. It gives you funding this year for 67874 that you could do something else with. I recommend something else or or reject some of those changes if you wanted to reject where do you show over under so I'm just right here. So the new total. When you look at our resources and subtract out our expenses we can have 467 available. So I was saying almost 500,000. I'm reading that right. And does does what you did, and then I see your hand is up and I'm just trying to make sure I does what you did help us all in the next two years, or does it leave us in this. It hurts a little bit because we pushed some stuff off into the next year. We, again, the sidewalk plow will come back to.  Okay. Mandy sand is up. Is it helpful if I stop sharing Mandy. No, I just have to find my button. A couple of things as you were going through that you talked about switching out the irrigation for the top dresser dresser, but that that line then made me notice that the paving is still listed at 20,000 and I think our for the Cherry Hill paving were like, they didn't think much could be done at all for 20. So I think we still need to talk about that one and whether that number is appropriate and how much of the parking lot we would want to do because it sounded like that was going to be more than. Yeah, I think Ray Guilford have, you know, they just come out from different perspectives so I think the hundred thousand was to kind of do the whole thing over again. And the last one that Ray got from DPW. I think Guilford was saying for 20,000 we could make a lot of improvements to that space but it wouldn't be a complete redo of that parking lot so yeah that's a discussion for this committee whether you want to do sort of the smaller get us by option for a few more years or sort of the complete overhaul of that parking lot. And then, while while we're talking about this, there's a lot of requests here that go to benefit the region, either substantially or probably at least 50% of the time, whether that be the buses, or the field equipment, or even the chargers that would not even be installed on town owned property. And so I'd like to hear from Paul what type of cost sharing agreements in purchasing and operating would be negotiated before we essentially hand this by this equipment and stuff that is going to, you know, sort of be used by an entity that is not town controlled. And then also with the DPW field equipment one of the things we heard was that there's a lot of operating costs that come with that and so I'd like to hear from Paul is the additional person that Guilford recommended going to end up in the budget because if it's going to end up in the operating budget with those increased costs I would be wary about buying equipment that then requires our DPW to make decisions on whether to use that, or do something else and what they would give up to do this we would say, well, if we buy the equipment we would use it but we'd give something else up. And so I'm not sure I would be in favor of giving something else up so I'm curious whether you're operating budgets going to include increases in DPW staffing and consumables to cover that or how that would be covered through region agreements and all. We're still working through the operating budgets and you know the departments have put in their request for additional, you know, expenses and staff as they've seen that, you know, we don't have an agreement with the school district and term and or the regional school district for maintenance I think with a lot of the stuff we look as it would benefit both sides of the equation. And, you know, we've never really calculated the shared cost, because it used to be under one operational entity. And, and that that person sort of managed it on both ends and sort of it was pretty informal in many ways. And then to that we just we've never really collected the data to really accurately say this is on your side of the ledger this is on our side of ledger you know we utilize their pool and things like that, and in their fields for certain things but Sean, do you think you know I think that's I think several years ago, it felt like a pretty even swap of services, especially when the town would use the middle school for town meeting for example or you know I don't think there was any payment for that and it was a significant chunk of time using a facility owned by the region. We don't do that anymore, obviously that that was a major kind of exchange of value that no longer happens. So it probably is worth, you know we're getting to the place where it is worth to sort of reevaluate you know what are we getting we still do get some benefits on the recreation department side of use of space. But it's not what it used to be, again, 10, you know five years ago when we had town meeting. So I'm going to call on others before calling myself so Pam, and then for all. I just want to say thanks for that list of of suggested changes between Sean and fall. Most of those, you know I don't. I don't feel like I was in a position to be able to say well do they really need for cruisers because they go with three so I really appreciate that's exactly one of the questions that was coming to mind. And, and pushing off the snow plow is, I think it's really smart. Back to the school buses just briefly. It seems to me that I would love to put our money into a more permanent electric solution, and it doesn't feel like it's there yet, even though it's a really good thing it's a feel good thing to get moving on electrification but it just doesn't feel like we're there yet and I'm really happy to put that off. I'm not not spend that kind of money on this. And also just the phase one of the field equipment, Andy Joe's question about the staff to operate that was a really, really good question. And I also would at some point like to make an addition to the list rather than a subtraction. And if that's appropriate at some point let me know. Yeah, I think that was the time. Yeah. I've been looking at sort of overall thinking that we're spending, you know, two and a half million plus on equipment, equipment. The values very quickly it starts to depreciate them and take it off a lot. And I was really hoping to see a stronger presence for street plant the street tree planting. It's something that that increases in value rather than depreciates. And I think it's, it's, it's just a huge tangible pro climate change climate action that so many more people can participate and I just think it's a really smart move just to keep the funding for that going so I was going to say, I did reach out. Not following protocol sorry, I just reached out for the answer of what it would cost to plant a year's worth of trees and the answer is about $40,000. And so that was, that was 20 sessions of or seven sessions of 20 trees and each tree is nearly $300 a piece to buy so that was very quickly, you know, 39,000 plus. So, I wouldn't mind keeping, say 10 in for tree removal and trimming. But to, but to augment that with 40,000 for the tree planting if we could. So everyone knows it's a line item right now for 20. It's not, it's, it's in there just for a smaller amount. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I'd love to see that maybe go to 50 total. I just wanted to go back a minute to the right this number 67,874 and just one I was just wondering how, how much could we put toward roads because when we were listening to the presentation. A few weeks ago, it was kind of surprising to me that the cut that we were concentrating on just the downtown area. The sidewalks there and around the North Pleasant and Amity and those streets and because is it because in other parts of town residents aren't speaking up, or I mean like the potholes and south Amherst are terrible. I mean, and I didn't want to bring that up because I don't want to be another whining resident in town, but it seems to me more than trees at this point, or some of the other things we've been talking about the roads should be a priority. Because driving on these streets in our cars they're not helping our cars at all kids biking on the roads it's not helping them at all sidewalks aren't aren't that great in some parts of town so I was just kind of wondering how much of them. If that could be part of the discussion. Thank you. Paul. Okay, so, so we are, we don't just do sidewalks downtown, we do, we've sort of focused around schools. So the sidewalks near the middle school and high school have been done on Gray Street, maybe Taylor Street I think we also did. You know, next year we got a grant to do sidewalks along Belcher Town Road and East Amherst. And that's where the, you know, we tried and we did Michelin Street, last year as well which is downtown. And I think we did some in North Amherst, I forget exactly going up there. Anyway, so it's throughout the town they do get graded to a certain extent. And I think you're totally right on roads that roads are blowing up it's not just our community but it's really evident to us when we drive through the through and so. That's why I think we've heard a lot and that's what matters a lot to a lot of people who are in the town who may consume very few town services other than just driving on the roads. And so, you know, trying to get as many roads as possible to be paved. The issue for that you may have talked about this with Guilford was, you know, there's three paving contractors in Western Massachusetts so all the cities and towns and the state are all vine for the same group of people so getting them in the pipeline is what we what our goal is as many as we possibly can. So, you know, I'm a big advocate of putting more money into roads and trying to get as many done as we can. We're for the first time started getting into some side roads as opposed to doing the major roads we've done northeast southeast Bay Road, Meadow Street. And so this year the first ones will be Pomeroy and West Pomeroy. There's a lot of demand for roads right. In terms of the trees, you know, we borrowed. There's an initiative in FY 13 to borrow money to plant trees that was $600,000. And then we've been spending that money to pay to utilize those funds over the last 10 years basically because it is bond. And I think we've spent that money back, but we've also had to pay the debt costs for that so I don't like the idea of borrowing money plant trees over 10 years it doesn't seem to make sense to me. So, and if you talk to Alan I think his biggest need is taking trees down not planting. In fact, he's been struggling with finding places to plant trees, you know he's going around saying can I plant a tree in your yard type things. So it's not necessarily people love trees. It's a really feel good thing. His biggest challenge is removing trees and that's where the money has that's the most expensive part of his operation. And that's why we actually in our in the budget we said tree planting and removal because we know there's a demand for planting. You know, if you want, he would welcome as much money as you want to put into it but it's not it's not as nice to hear but there are a lot of trees on public roads that he really feels need to come down. And that's much, you know, he needs a chunk of money to be able to do that every year. And I think Paul one thing you, you know you share with me sometimes the trees actually contribute to poor road conditions, right by not allowing the roads to dry out when they're too close to the room. So I think we hear a lot about Heather stone and that's one of the things that they've identified is that it's going to do it because the trees over where the trees are close to the road. The trees, it doesn't dry out so the water gets into the pavement, it freezes blows up the pavement. And so DPW wants to brought you know take away the trees we all love the trees because it looks so beautiful, but there's there's there are certain areas where there could be more space I think on Henry Street they ran into a lot of trees are they really couldn't pave the road with the trees where they were. So that all costs money as well. So I'm going to call on myself Mandy if you don't mind and then. So I had another area and Paul while you have it here at the body cams for the police. You know there's, there's, we know there is or has been grant money for that and you know the answer on that is we would apply later. So when I push, could we start with fewer. The answer was all 50 people might be need to be out on the same day. That's why 50, but I'm thinking but yes, there might be a few days like that but could we start with something significantly less and and get some experience with it. And I didn't want to name a number Scott, Scott throughout maybe 40, but it was a big ask in terms of it and I understand why they're asking for it so the body cameras were 250. So I was looking for, could we start with half of that so it's a question and I was going to do it on a. If, if we don't have a good answer I was going to suggest it as a question back to you all to think about it. But if grant money becomes available then we could buy more, you know, to try to think of it that way. So, and then Scott talked about the console that it's desperately needed but it wasn't completely clear to me. And it may just be I was fuzzy that there's something available that we can buy it was more that the manufacturers going out of business that has our current so I just. It sounded like we absolutely need it. So I wasn't going to question that one so I had that. And then my last is I think there is at least one and maybe two of the resident proposals. And the one that we had an ad for trees but there was a $20,000 offer as a match to put a bike station in where the town came up with the other amount. And there was one where the staff, Stephanie came in and said that was a location that was on the list, in any case. So, it happened to be unlike some of the others where it didn't fit a plan. It seemed to fit a plan. So, and it's, it's at the low end so I didn't, I didn't know, and I have, I think we need a longer discussion or resident proposals on how we want to handle them but of the variety of that one seemed to come up. Why wouldn't we do it if there's, there's matching money so my first was on body cams and then on what to do about the resident proposals. Yeah, yeah. I think there's on the body cams I think it would be why you could easily ask the chief and us to come up with an implementation plan I think there are a lot of, a lot of pieces to this and say, if you were to roll it out over two or three years, what would that look like. And again, going out for for grants which we would do. There are also other costs that go along with that. There's, you know, there's collective bargaining issues. So there's operational impacts as well. The union wants these. So, but they're almost all the, every community gets some there is a cost that comes along with it in terms of operations for this change of work conditions. In addition to the capital piece so it's so even if they even if we appropriate the funds we wouldn't be able to implement. There are two other things that have to happen one is the council has to approve this surveillance policy for implementation of the body cams. The second is we have to reach an agreement on the collective bargaining side. In terms of the bike station. We shine I were just on a call a little bit ago. So we're just going to make sure that the we want to move with caution on expanding the bike program at this moment in time I think. And one suggestion there Paul could be, you know that could be something that comes out of Stephanie sustainability money. It could be either you increase that a little bit that gets the flexibility to do that or the advice is take that from the sustainability money. But that that's one of the types of things that would come out of that bucket of money. Yeah, I think the console is one that they are very concerned it's it's it's the guts of our entire public safety system. I think that's why they really prioritize that. And I think they just like get out ahead of it make sure it's done before the, if the company says we're going to go out of business in five years. That makes me nervous. Yeah. We're three years yeah. Hey Mandy. Yeah, I want to get back to the paving issue I think I ask this every year as Guilford says and then you reiterate there's only three paving contractors and we're constantly trying to add money to paving. If there's only three contractors they have a they themselves also have a limited amount of things they can do in one year and so what's the upper limit of sort of contracts that Amherst can contract out to these paving contracts and every year, because I don't think it would be wise to fund more than that because it would just sit there. Right. And so what is that number are we close to that number, are we not close to that number. And then if we are kind of close to that number and it's also not certain what we might get from fair share and I know the governor's budget gave us basically nothing for transportation and that so I'm going to recognize that that we've got to hope that maybe the budget will change the recommendations there but given that right now it looks like there might be 400 or so thousand dollars that we have to expend to something with the changes and next year's budget is overspent by 400,000 or so. Would it be better to, if we're running up against that number of for roads, would it be better to spend down some of next year's projects and move them into this year's projects to free up money next year if the paving contractors do that or something like that instead of putting it all into roads if we're not going to be able to spend it for roads and I don't know whether we can or not but but since we've got a lot. Can we move some projects think about moving projects into this year that have that are in next year. That's certainly doable. I think the business capacity of the contractors to meet that needs, you know, it's, if they feel like there's business out there for them get another crew up and running, then they probably would do that if it means more business. We've done some roads ourselves in terms with our current crew, and I just don't think we do as good a job as, as the private contractors do. We're just not, we don't do it every day they do it every day. So, I think that is, you know, we just want to put our or in the water, the bigger contract we have the more attention we get. So, getting stuff out there, I think it is to our advantage. I can't compete with the state when the state has a boatload of money and they put it into forbid, like a 91 or on route nine or something like that. That gets that they pay top dollar, we don't we never are at that level. So your question is, would it make sense to hold off on putting money into roads this year and have more for next year. Is that basically the theory. Partially that or or think about some of the stuff that because next year's budget is over budgeted right now think about moving some of that into this year instead of putting all of it into roads so that we're balancing sort of all of them since this year's budget has that million and roads already. I mean it's setting priorities and I think if you said this is priorities I would put the roads money this year because even if we can't spend it this year we'd be able to, we knew it was going to be there and they could be contracting that in advance. So that was a priority. And we do anticipate the our town bid for roads will be a large one this year, because we've been putting extra money into roads when we have an opportunity. So it should be a large bed this year. Yeah the council appropriate additional funds last year. Alex. Thanks. So, just switching back gears to the body cans. I think it's kind of like the electric bus where we have three members of the town council who are intimately involved in that discussion but I think that there are a lot of ramifications around these body kingdoms obviously, but even I worry about if we're only rolling out half the bodycams I don't know what that does to union contracts who get one how do you decide I mean so it seems not the appropriate place here for us to be deciding we're going to fund 50% of full because I think there's just too many issues that stem from it so I think So I'm not really sure what this group should be doing or what's appropriate for this group to be doing around recommendations relative to that request. I don't know what to do with that. That's just. Yeah, no, I agree with you 100% because I think that's why we would ask the chief to come in with an implementation plan. I think he wouldn't do me imagine, you know, a traffic stop with someone that didn't have a body cam on they say you purposely didn't do whatever we fit needs to be uniform and sort of organize that way I agree with you. Pam, do you want to. Yeah, quick follow up on the on the body cam. So is it possible in that implementation plan that we established the HR of the union rules first, and then, and then go by the cams. Do what first just establish the protocols establish, you know what will happen when it gets rolled out. So we spend this coming year. With an implementation plan, the union gets to weigh in HR gets to weigh in and establish it all before we go purchase in other words, put off the purchase for a year. We didn't purchase until we had everything in alignment, but I need to know if the council is even going to put the money I don't we don't want to go into negotiations and say oh the council really doesn't want to buy them in the first place. So the first question is does the council want to buy them and sets of money aside and then we go to the next stage of here's how we would propose to use them is the council agreeable to that. And then we say okay union, here's how we intend to do them. Let's talk about it because it's more about implement implementing at that time we have to impact bargain this. So, but I don't want to negotiate the union if the council want to appropriate the funds for them. So I'll just, I'll just ask this is a question. What are police cars, not everyone gets a police car. Do our body cam something that's attached to your body. And then, then nobody else ever uses your body cam so it's a question on on how these things work because little handheld videos. So, in terms of an implementation plan I think that makes sense that we think like, how would we use them and not that two people have them on their body and the third who's standing next to him doesn't that wouldn't be a view. But I want to go just back to the roads question for while you're here I think this is, I think it's actually pretty critical Mandy this is. I'm out there giving talks about the school, the elementary school, and people are saying what about the pothole in front of my, my house, and this is North Amherst South Amherst and for you're absolutely right it's neighborhoods, it's not, you know, it's not just the downtown.  So, I think it's a really good thing to bulk up because I'm worried when I look at 2526 27 and 28 we're dropping down to 500,000 on roads in the projected five year plan. And so, in the interim, I'm hoping that we can do Joe Comerford and Mindy we're asking is, it's chapter 90 money double it triple, you know, let's get some state funding of roads in the road intent, you know so it's not just out of our property tax dollars but we're asking in out years. Can we get more help and as you said fair share didn't have anything in roads for it but I mean just really thinking. And I noticed a couple towns said that it's they're not beginning to keep up it's not just the embers of the world on this so I love the fact that miraculously there's 500 400 ish 1000 more to put into roads. I think that's smart. So I just going to weigh in on what I'm hearing and, and went for when you said people said, should I be coming to town Council saying sorry, or is it okay to just say it in a district meeting you know like where, where should I voice my concern about my road. Because it's out there, I think, as a major issue townwide. So I just wanted to make it clear that I don't think this is just in our heads. It's, it's a very tangible. Mandy. Yeah, I'm going to do body camps and then I'll respond to the road thing. My recommendation for body camps will be to fund the whole thing for now, and then go through the process and see and and put in our JCPC recommendation that we recommend that they're becoming you know that the that the full funding go in, but I think that with that come to the Council, the surveillance tech requirements right because the funding can't be used until those are done. But if those take less than a year and get approved we want the funding already in place and since we generally have one year to do that. And if the council doesn't then approve the surveillance use or gets the, you know, an implementation plan that is different, we can always reappropriate some funding to some other source or maybe figure out a way to make that money a little bit more fungible. So that we know it's going to that but if the implementation plan is only half of it that we don't have to go through a reappropriation process to use it for something else. Something like that of maybe think a little more flexible with it but at least keep the whole amount in there in case that's what goes through the council and the council decides to fund it all pending all those other steps that need to go through for roads. One of my concerns is next year's budget does only have 500,000 in it for roads and is already 400,000 in the red. The budget is 400,000 in the black. And we put an extra 400,000 into roads we're putting an extra 1.5 million in along with the chapter in on 90 money state aid. And then we're going from that down to 500,000 and you still have to cut 400,000 from next year's budget and so is it better to have a steady type of contract going out. Or is it, you know, because in that sense then maybe moving projects from FY 25 into this year to balance that out and be able to then find more to maybe up to a million next year. But if we up to a million next year next year's budgets already almost a million in the whole. And so would it be better to move it and keep steady the state, the contracts going out for road funding at approximately 1.8 million a year or is a contract for one point. It would be 2.2 million or so for one year, and then for 1.3 million, the better way to go I don't know, but I got trust you guys but that's part of my concern is, adding it adding to roads this year and then cutting nearly a million for what we can do next year instead of more keeping that money steady and using some of and moving projects from next year to this year because there happens to be more money there. Yeah, I think the idea is to. So with the chapter 90 money we can assemble we can hold that over easily and then and let that a lot of it will be dependent on how the DPW can manage can they prepare roads, can the engineering department get enough roads designed to go out to bid are the contractor or we have enough staff to oversee the construction of the roads, and then are their contractors out there willing and they sort of watch the market, I think at DPW they sort of say oh they're they're really eager for our business now though the people you know the contracting companies will visit them and say we're ready for your bid on this or that the other thing that indicator.  And this is likely a summer 24. The money we're talking about in this year's plan is next year's road money. The money for this summer was last year's road money so it's. So, and I know I think when we look at out years we do worry about are we going to have enough money for roads we need to be investing more heavily in roads because we're getting less bang for our buck. You know the dollars are the same. It's, it's not going as far. Pam. I want to question the so related sidewalks and roads in the number that we have for public works highway road and repair resurfacing and sidewalks around town. Does that include the new multimodal dual use section of road in North Amherst there's a placement of sidewalk from we'll see Meadow Street south toward toward the university. And it looks like it doesn't. It's a small section it's it's maybe I don't know 500 600 feet in length before it reverts back to the existing sidewalk location. Is that completely grant funded, or was that part of last year's sidewalk expenditure. What stretch of road is it again. It goes from the intersection North Amherst, the light on the it's on the west side of North Pleasant Street, and it goes 600 maybe 1000 linear feet of length but it's a eight foot wide dual use walking biking, which then narrows back down to a four foot sidewalk. So we're hoping to be working with the university on their pedestrian study that would extend up to the North Amherst intersection and because that's a major that's where we had an accident. pedestrian killed and it's dark and so the university is concerned about that and it's something we are working with them on. So we want to get a real study done in the university is interested in this as well. This funding isn't necessarily going toward that. Not until we get PPW has done a plan for North Pleasant Street, but it's pretty expensive plan but it's a pretty high priority in terms of the number of people who walk on North Pleasant Street. Yeah, I think that plan sitting in TSO right now right. If the North. Um, I'm not sure. Yeah. It is. That's right because we didn't have money to do it and so sort of put on the back burner. And one of the questions was input from people who live on the street but also why isn't UMass peck paying for a lot of us. Since that's the use the use and the safety. This is really a student. It's not just a neighborhood. It's that it's a major transit route. So last but not least in that same intersection area. Given that, you know, we're talking about putting town funds. These are not, these are not chapter 90 dollars that we're talking about using the issue of safety that came up actually through those resident requests. So safety on some of those streets is important. And I wonder if we only do speed bumps. Typically when a road is resurfaced, or if there are in fact ad hoc operations to improve feeding on roads that are not being currently and actively repaved. Yeah, so there are a lot of requests for speed humps and other traffic calming measures and I think we don't have a really good pathway for. And I think what we've talked with tack about that as well in terms of how we're going to manage all those requests because a lot of requests came in through through this process and through other processes as well. And, and DPW I think it would be would welcome some kind of process for how do we prioritize, are we prioritizing or not. Alex, I don't know, either fall or Sean remember the numbers. I don't want to say the wrong number but as we're talking about roads and sidewalks. I don't remember which JCPC it was but one year gave us how much it cost to pot to repave one mile of road. And it really puts into perspective, the dollars and why we're looking at the dollars, and I have the number of my head but I'm afraid I don't want to be wrong. So I don't know. He told us a million. I remember it was a million but my husband says I tend to like, you know, double the number and say now isn't it affordable. I don't remember a million a mile. It's like a million. And that was, and that was before the market has gone through the. Yeah, so I can for the real note, we paid the section of Bay Road from the Belcher town line to Halls Road it's a 10th of a mile 4,000 feet. It costs us our entire chapter 90 appropriation $850,000 basically. And that's that we that's the testimony Lynn gave to the Senate Ways and Means Committee on Monday. I mean, it's, it's, it's very expensive and now it's interestingly the complaint now is about speeding on Bay Road. But I just think it's helpful when we're talking about putting 450,000 into roads because I think people see these large numbers and don't always necessarily understand how much road 450,000 gets you, which is not much so. Yeah, and that's why I think it'd be good. I mean, if you are going to allocate some funds, divide it up and put in the sidewalks as well, because I think that's a high impact. It's a high impact on the dollar amount as well. It's, it's sidewalks are also very expensive because usually there's three work because along with them. And so, I don't know how long you were planning on joining us, but this has been incredibly useful, valuable as we turn to this. So I think one recommendation might be as you write up your capital, your thing is use these numbers, you know, use this fact of you get eight tenths of a mile of a road for this. You know, so it's that it's a message out to the town or use it in your talk your when you when you do the capital that it's not, it's not for lack of trying or dollars. And the fact that chapter 90 money has not begun to keep up, much less address road intense, Joe Comerford talked in her talk to the council that we're when you get outside of major cities we're road intense, as opposed to cities that have buses, you know, have so rapid transit that we're road intense and that the legislatures don't think of that, you know, and the wear and tear on our roads. So, so I don't know, Paul, were you planning on staying for more or I wasn't. I have another meeting if that's okay.  Thank you. Thank you. Oh, Pam. Yeah, I have a question that goes to school. So when I look at the department total for schools. And that, what I think of the tax dollar distribution, you know, roughly 60% goes to our schools. Is this nearly $500,000 part of that number or is this actually in addition to the percent that we say we spend on schools in town. It depends sort of what comparison you're making. So if you're looking at operating budgets and what percentage schools are operating budgets. This is not part of that calculation. If you looked at sort of educational spending as a whole of the town it could be again there's not really trying to think of what reports would have capital and operating spending all combined into one and I can't think of any. You know, it varies year, wildly year to year, how much is spent on different locations so the schools might be a little bit lower this year, but some of that's intentional because again there's sort of a wait and see approach to Fort River and Wildwood. In terms of what to invest in those those facilities so. This year the number, I think, I don't know if this is your observation that it's a little bit lower than what you might expect for the schools but I think in other years it's been higher. So it really does depend on the schools. Sorry, it really does depend on the year and what projects are being requested, because if you look at some of the out years you'll see some large, some large projects coming in the not to near future. The answer is we don't really know if this is part of that. It's not part I think the number you hear is usually operating operating and it's and it's not part of that. Yeah, it's operating Pam and even within operating, you know, one of the big, I think a peculiar way the town does its account. You don't necessarily see fringe benefits, even in operating, you know, because they're pool, but on for DPW you don't see these vehicle purchases, and you don't see roads, you see DPW operating and then you see capital so these. They're, they're into their, because they're so different, you know, police is there's operating and then there's police cars. So we don't, you don't often see them in a way other than taking out your calculator, adding it. It's like our military spending you don't really know what all the pieces are. The other thing I was going to add is the school's line at 474 is missing the two vehicles to all the vehicles that are on it, which is that line number one and this is only the elementary school side the regional school side shows up on a different line of our capital, which is just part of, I don't even know what it's where it shows up, Sean, but yeah so it's it's it's part of some of the debt and then it's something else I think. Yeah, so it's 372 for FY 24 is what the regional schools gave us so region comes through as an assessment. So they think that was the assessment number they gave us for FY 24. But Mandy's right we broke out vehicles, some years ago to kind of group vehicles together so yeah when you had the school vehicles and it increases that number quite a bit. So, um, do we want to we've got about an hour left a little less than an hour left and I'm just looking there is. Can I ask a question Kathy whether is anyone opposed to any of the recommendations that I listed from Paul at the beginning. I'm just thinking about when we start getting towards a recommendation, any opposition to those changes. I will ask everybody if anyone had any opposition to any of them and I wrote them all down. I did not. I thought they were good recommendations. So I, all the way, all the way down, and then you left open the question of that produced the change in the spreadsheet that you showed us and I think you need to send that to us so we have it. So the, now that we have something that's not in deficit, what do we do with that money. So did, does anyone else have anything on a didn't didn't disagreed with the change Mandy. I can disagree with the changes per se but I think in our report to go along with those changes we all talked about that electric school bus and needing more information from Stephanie and stuff like that. And, you know, I, I'll bring it up again I would like some more information about the field equipment and you know just cost sharing but also the operational costs and will that. And maybe a recommendation that if it's not in the budget, what or maybe we should talk about if the operational side isn't going to be budgeted. What do we recommend to do on the capital side that should go into our JCPC for the field equipment right like if they're if the if DPW is not going to get the operational costs they need to do the field maintenance do we still recommend buying the field equipment or do we recommend something else instead. So maybe you're adding you said here's a potential add to the list, you know, it's I don't I don't disagree with their changes I think though with those changes there's things we need to mention in our recommendation. Yeah, I agree and we had a good discussion electric but I will, you know, I'm going to draft some things once we have more but we had a good discussion on electric school bus with some suggestions, and they'd be DPW field equipment as well so Yeah, same same comment on the bus on the buses. The other two things that I had that were potential retrieval of money is the the do the two very small paving projects at the, at the childcare center near Wildwood and then the cherry hill. I walked through the Wildwood site several times a week, and the the parking lot has one really big pothole and two small potholes, and it's really not otherwise in very bad shape. And it occurs to me that our wonderful new hot box is just tool we need for fixing those things and making them somewhat somewhat better for quite a while, until that entire area gets repaid as part of a bigger project. I think for cherry hill, although I'm not quite as familiar with it. It seems like if a, an area of, you know, entrance to 10 feet into the parking lot is solidified and, and, you know, made made better that it would reduce a lot of the issue for a while, without having to spend the $20,000 or the $50,000 to do those parking lot. No, I had that I actually went out and took pictures of the cherry hill parking lot, Pam, and had the same thought on to the extent I understand what a hot box is once we stop when we can get the snow and ice off of it. There are a couple that look like just someone is thrown gravel into them, you know, literally not attached. And the rest of the parking lot is not in horrendous shape. It's not, you know, it's not smooth. And Sean you, you go to cherry hill but you know I actually said okay there's one there and there's two here and hot box should be able to do it so just, you know, trying to have Guilford, or whoever does this do a really good assessment and they do a better job of filling the holes and not having it shred with the first car that goes over it would be good to extent I understood what a hot box is that's what it's supposed to be able to do. So, any other. So that was the daycare I had it on my list to so I have. So I think the suggestion can I can I raise. Are you finished Pam before I on the resident proposals, we had 1234567 this year. And the one that Paul addressed because I asked about it is that Stephanie might well have enough money and her sustainability budget for the bike share and you need to evaluate the bike share program. The others. My question is, what do we want to write up on the resident proposals and I think Alex, you voiced a concern that we should have a policy on speed humps and where should they go and a priority list rather than somebody sees resident proposals are open right now, and Pam then suggested that, you know, one of the things could be you could identify places where they're the cut off streets, you know where you are avoiding an intersection and say how many of those do we have and tap so do we want to put in that we would like a policy to be developed and have these go first attack, you know, for for an assessment, because right now they're coming first to Sean, who then gets either a DPW. A draft person, or in the case of the bike share Stephanie and Gilbert seem not to have read any of them so they may have gone to him but you know he wasn't focused on reading them so do we want to write something up and I can draw try to draft something to not say we're open to resident proposals but we're not going to take any because there's not an overarching plan. So just something, something to voice there needs to be more work on the resident proposal side. Kathy, are you saying you differ for the resident proposals to prohibit sort of road improvement projects. You know, I think if we had a process that speed humps are at, you know, roads are roads since crosswalk or a road's part of it or not so this is what I'm asking a road's part of it or not. If every time a road or sidewalk or crosswalk comes to us, we say, is this part of the big scheme or not, and we turn it down. And people shouldn't be encouraged to submit them. So then I had a similar one we had one nonprofit this year, doing something that might have been equipment in Amherst neighbors, will we take resident proposals from nonprofits as opposed to something that's. It's got to be something that town owns. I think that was the issue without resident request was that it was for equipment that they would own and it was for their purposes. And we should put it in. So I'm just thinking in the right upward. I think it did. I explained it to him. It does say that it's got to be public benefit. Okay, so one thing I was thinking of. I just had a question. Did anyone have any of those that rose to the top of wanting to propose them. And I picked out big bike share just because it was $20,000 on the piece. Yeah. So the only thing I was going to say is if I agree with you the road projects come here doesn't seem helpful. If this group valued those projects one thing you could propose it'd be a new project but one thing you could propose is sort of a general road safety improvement bucket, you know, with some amount of money in it. And then there to be a process to allocate those funds in the future that might involve tack instead of this committee. And so that way, you know, we do that with the transportation plan, for example, we just put sort of money in that transportation plan and then it gets allocated towards different projects. It could be that this committee decides we think that there's definitely a need for safety road safety improvement money but we're not the right body to determine which projects. There should be a broader plan developed, and then funding so it could be this year maybe a future year thing, or this body just puts money towards that specifically. Or you just say it comes out of road money. I mean it could come out of road money to but So both Mandy and Alex have hit their hand up on. And it doesn't have to be on this but maybe we could speak first to this. No, this one's I've struggled with, but you know, I don't think JCPC is the place to be saying which roads get done which roads safety wise, get improvement and what they should be you know and so I appreciate the resident But you know, once the town move to, I don't even know what it's called but basically scanning the roads and then ordering which ones are in worse and making their decisions based on sort of the conditions of the roads. You know that that was a that's a good process right and and relying on resident requests solely to get to the front of the line. I worry just like Alex does about knowledge on that but I think maybe these requests that came or the system we're using to do capital requests from residents to JCPC could be transferred to a road safety requests to tack, and let them tack, talk with Guilford about figuring out what roads need safety improvements and what the priority is and prioritize them and then use that to come to tack to JCPC and make it part of the annual capital requests through that process. So that's what they do with roads we get the bucket of money, and they decide what they're going to spend it on. I think that's the most appropriate I'm not sure I would be ready to put a blanket bucket in there this year for that without a process in place but I think maybe our capital request process can just be transferred to tack almost with it related only to road inside improvements and all things like that so yeah so that's what my thoughts on that. Alex. So, just for those of us who don't follow every destination of tack and all the various things.  There's an online request to DPW and we have a process and so if tax the appropriate place. That's great. I guess I guess just probably echoing what everybody else is saying is is if we could as a town come up with a process that doesn't change from year to year where we could direct people. That would be amazing. I feel like we're doing a little bit every year but every year I feel like, you know, people feel like they get the run around and it's certainly not anyone's intent and I just don't know whether we have so many committees that that winds up happening and so I echo Mandy Joe. I'm not ready to put together sort of a bucket of money for a process I don't yet understand. And part of that is maybe me not understanding sort of how tack works well enough to know that DPW has its money for roads and sidewalks but tack is making specific recommendations that they should have a bucket of money for themselves rather than it being part of a used bucket so I guess I would want to understand a little bit more like are we just creating more buckets or does that really make sense. I just don't know the answer so. Okay. We can certainly write it on the, we had actually a couple good paragraphs last year but it's come back to us again that we still haven't solved as you said we, we might have tweaked it but we didn't solve it. I just thought, because I misguided them that they should go and talk to tack, and they were saying no staff is reviewing these tack doesn't have a role in them and so at a minimum. We just need to know, you know, I don't think we have a speed hump bump policy out there on when and where and how. And so tack would have to come up with that or tack working with DPW would have to come up with it, but it's, yeah, so Pam, so we can write something that just says we, we need clarity on this which is sort of what we wrote and, and have it not change. I'd like to say that, that we would like to have a policy developed, and I don't know if it's tack if it's tack with DPW if it's tack with DPW and TSO, but a policy on on traffic safety areas, and that of our budget for DPW roads and sidewalk that specific projects are listed each year by DPW that address some of these specifics. And so that the DPW proposal to us is not just, you know, the $100,000 million for road work but there's actually a subset of that that that addresses it because the scanner pavement condition thing is terrific, but it does not assess safety issues. So the speeding on a little side street is just not even detected in that format or that forum. So I think having something that documents those, and then be able to say people maybe instead of a capital request, although I thought that was a really cool idea. It's ending up falling mostly into these buckets of traffic safety. I don't know what other have been posed in the past but it's mostly roads. There's been a handful of non road projects but it's, you know, 85% roads so far. So it sounds like it sounds like those really ought to be directed to be matched up with this priority list. That's it. Thank you. Put my hand down. And we had a mix this year because we also had the, your speed is and flashing lights, you know what, an intersection by a child piece and just for people I was told by our DPW to give up on the road I live on because it's a state road. The state lowered the speed limit and put a flashing speed, your speed is sign and move to speed limit sign. Because they came out and looked at it was not safe, you know, so it was around safety, Pam, completely. But it was a state road so our town couldn't do anything about it that they, a very nice state engineer decided to be responsive, which they aren't always. Alex, yeah, yeah, I just so I mean again and start off that not to be a dead horse but so tax roll right.  Right, and they advise the town council who then makes those decisions. So again, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is right we have an advisory committee. Are we then changing them from an advisory committee to a committee that actually is able to execute their advice through giving them a bucket of money or like, again, I'm just trying to understand what you want to. Alex you're asking a big question here and I think we can ask it because tack would like to know the answer that you know in terms of they, they, they think this is their role but they write a report and, and who does it go to does anyone listen because they do have a, you know, various things they've worked through and DPW is part of that. So it would be good to clarify that and now we had this town services and a TSO council committee you know what there is a, I would say there's a lack of clarity, even though in some minds people's minds it might be clear, I know the chair of tech does not think it's clear. So again, like I don't every year we write these really great recommendations but like do we know who's going to provide that like it would be nice to have in our recommendations and understanding of like who can provide that clarity rather than it's on I think it's in the town managers list of things that he's working on I know, I don't know if the charge has been updated since the form of government has been changed and I think that's I know, then talk with Tom Andrew, it's on, you know, it's, it's, again, it's on the list of lots of things that need to be moved forward so I think including that in the recommendation again is the right way to go to provide clarity around where these things go and what role tack plays and all of this. Well, just to add to that just I guess what would help with clarity is what is the maybe you mentioned this Kathy what is the relationship between DPW and TAC with DP if you ever go to a tech media DPW is a big presence there but there is some concern that they may or may not be listened to and they may be talked to you know in terms of is it is it a is it a discussion or not. But they, but they, they are part of the deliberation on sidewalk policies, crosswalk policies, walkways, pedestrian, you know they're part of those conversations. Go for it is the staff liaison for tech, kind of like I'm the staff liaison for this committee or for finance committee. Okay, so it is a, it is a team of experts and not just residents like us on a committee. I mean I'm sure some of you are experts but. What are you trying to say. You know what I'm saying like I'm not an expert on any of this stuff. I can connect your reports. The tech committee has people on it that not everyone had to be an expert but a lot of them came in with a traffic a planning, you know, that kind of a background which made them in, which is why they were interested in this, you know they worked a lot on bikeways on pedestrian in, in their regular life, not just in their town service life. So it has a mix of those of that type of depth. And the longer anyone serves on it the more they know. Thank you. Sean I wasn't doubting your. I know, I know exactly what you were saying. So I. So the process in the past has been. And so Pam is new is that I take a stab at drafting something. And you all see the one that we did last year. Alex has been a volunteer to make my poorly constructed sentences read more clearly, or to make sure we didn't actually talk about that I don't remember having that as a recommendation you just stepped, stepped over the bounds here. So I think with the discussion we've just had. I took a look at the way we did last year. I, some of it, some of the document because we inherited an earlier format where the old JCPC pre town council was weighing in on everything. And now that we're really just an advisory to the town manager. We don't have to repeat everything that's in the town managers report to us, you know, in terms of how much here. So I think what I do is draft to the first section is our recommendations, you know, and capture today's discussion on during the last meeting that we accepted and then we wanted, we make, and in addition we make these recommendations and then put this discussion of resident that we need a further discussion on the second page and I can have that ready for next time. What we need to know is the question that was raised there was one voice Mandy's not wanting to put the found money of 200 450 thousand dollars into road slash sidewalks, not wanting to put all of it in, or questioning whether it would be the other way. I thought it was a really good idea to recommend that it all go into roads and sidewalks so I can write it with a town with town manager advice, or I can say that we think this is a good year to be doing that and be taking the money we we allocated a million dollars, the Council did of free cash, we had extra and we gave it to roads because of the backlog on roads so this would be a big part of money and it sounded to me like Paul said that some of the companies could put on another crew and they would respond because Amherst has a big ask. So I like the idea of putting whatever that bottom line is all toward roads and then the question was on Pam came up with trees and Paul quickly had a way to fund my bike station idea because he said Stephanie's enough to do that we don't have to make it a freestanding piece. So does anyone have any or does the group have any consensus on how to write the piece on the. I didn't write it down quickly enough Paul Sean but it was you know 450 thousand dollars or whatever happened on that bottom line yeah to put that into the road slash sidewalk budget. And Mandy we can come back and I will write it up with a you know you're questioning you know do we drop down again next year are we making mistake putting a vehicle often to next year because then there's even less we have a problem next year. We do we have a problem over the next several years so it's not just next year we this this is not a balanced five year budget this is. And it's particularly not balanced if you look at it because DPW is debt services coming online. And there's an assumption that that's going to happen that's what throws it off for. 26 and 27 in particular that makes it a problem. So Mandy. I mean I'm not going to oppose putting it into roads and sidewalks maybe just some sort of acknowledgement that if we do so, you know, we still have to be careful about the out years that are not balanced and just think, you know think about if we do add it to roads. What might we have to not do and push off even farther because we. I don't know how to word it but that that's sort of part of my concern is, are we going to next year be facing no roads and also cutting projects. Yeah, if if the state doesn't move on any level. Yes, this is, this is, and is that then the wisest thing to do this year versus pay for some of those projects this year. Well, but I'm not going to pose roads. Alex. I mean, I guess I would say that, you know, I mean, I guess Paul's comment about the fact that any money that we put into roads now, even if we don't use it will roll into next year so even though it looks like the money for roads is dropping. It allows us to not have it drop so while I hear Mandy Joe, I have to say that I've been on JCPC long enough to know that that's the way the out years always look and then magically they don't necessarily look that way when we get to next year so I don't like pushing things off. But at the same time, we know we always need roads and so I like the ability to sort of maintain potentially that amount we're spending in roads. Just by putting it known money this year that then could push to next year so I think I'm in favor of that. And did we do we have a recommendation where do we end up around the body cams and funding for that. I don't know what your plan. Mandy. I'll say what I thought I heard Mandy so we. Mandy Joe said but like is that is that the consensus. I started funded at a lower level Mandy said fund the whole thing and then make a contingent that there is a plan. So that's the evidence thing and Paul's that the police that we were going to trust that there's an operation side of it that decides they clearly don't have to spend all of it they could spend less if they decide they need less so that's was the recommendation from Mandy that countered my wanting to go lower. So I guess I just wanted the group. Yeah, so I exactly so I, I'm, I'm comfortable doing a consensus consensus to, I don't feel strongly about it enough to try to argue it so I'd be fine to get to a consensus on how we want to word it they're clearly several things that have to happen before we spend the money, including if there's grants that would pay for half of it that would be great right but. I would just echo sorry Pam I would just echo I mean I have no idea how fungible the money could be but I think there is something nice about putting the whole funding up just because we don't know the ramifications with contracts of not fully funding it. And then if we could somehow make the money fungible enough to know where the money goes if it doesn't move forward or maybe make a recommendation about what would be the priority of spending, if it doesn't go forward I, if that's a possibility then I think that's a nice solution. Pam. I was in favor of reducing the number of cameras that are actually purchased and have them roll out over time. But understanding that there in fact is a deficit the next year and then you're after that that that having, having dollars in the hand right now. I guess does make sense to purchase it outright, or at least make the money available. So we do anticipate getting a grant for that. Again the money is there because we want it there so we don't lose sight of it but we do really anticipate going after and receiving a grant for a big chunk of the cost. How does that work then shown on this this fungible so if they got half, then, then they didn't spend the amount that result. If we find out that we get this grant let's say before Paul submits his budget will just reduce that amount by whatever we get. So after Paul submits his budget and after it's voted, then it would be sort of like old capital that would just not get used. If you're, I'm trying to think when you say fungible to me that means producer for something else, making the term or broad so it can be used for something else right. So I have to think what that might be. If it was the case then it would just stay there and be used for whatever else is I'm trying to look at the out years on the police plan to see if there's something else that is coming up. Like for example there's what there's lockers on there for the following year and there's so because it has to stay in the police budget you can't like say just kidding and put it something like throw it over to sustain. Yeah. We like we like fungibility so it's unlike me to argue against fungibility when it comes to capital but we also don't want to set a new precedent for something that's that broad. In car video system but that's only 18,000 and you don't have it in until two years from now. Yeah, but some sort of video systems and then I don't know what this data system is that's quite large. Right. The other thing is, you know, I'll talk with Paul, you know, maybe it's public safety equipment, and if we broaden it to be public safety equipment then there's a whole bunch of fire. EMS stuff that is coming up that it could be used for that instead. We draft some wording and you all decide what's what's what's indicate indicate your intent and we'll see what we can do that. I'm comfortable that I guess the going back to the buses we just I think I think we said that we want the this electric bus to be more thoroughly assessed with Stephanie weighing in on is this the best place to spend an extra $250,000 for the bang for the buck, and also some assessment about is leasing feasible and is it economically in our advantage at all, you know, whether it's good for one year or good for 10 years that right now. The extra cost is substantial so Sean do we have to, we have to leave it in the budget because if it you need it earmarked for it drops down to much less if it's a diesel and we know what happened to at the council meeting when we were when we talked about purchasing. Yeah, one thing I was thinking about for this and I'll talk to Stephanie first one thing I was thinking about for this and for the batteries is if we don't know 100% that's what we want to use it for maybe we put it into the sustainability budget. Sort of along the same lines what we just discussed where the intent of it is to be used for these things but if Stephanie comes back and says no there's a better value with these other things then it's still in a sustainability. Funding source it's still being used for the original intent which is going greener. So, because that sustainability bucket is broad enough that we use that for vehicles for the hybrid technology and things like that. I guess your question and then I want to get both of you as your question also was spending $150,000 for new battery for a bus that's failing and has all sorts of quirks. Should we just retire the one we've got, you know, if someone wants to buy it take it off our hands. It is, I think, an important question to ask because it's good money after a problem. Money, otherwise. I see Pam Mandy that answered that answered my question, and I would support. I would support not going either not keeping the old faulty electric bus any longer than we need to, including any equipment and apparatus that needs to support it. Yeah, I wonder if the thing to do is to instead of list the vehicle as electric school bus and charging infrastructure just school bus. And there's a couple of charging infrastructures listed in both the school section and in this section, maybe, and then if you move the rest of the, you know, and list of school bus at the 125 or whatever it is. I don't know for the diesel, but just listed a school bus right but put a minimum amount for whatever a diesel bus would be in there. Move the rest maybe to the sustainability fund. Once we get that information the charging can go in there if we end up I do, I do worry about replacing a battery for a lion bus that's been out for so long and we're not even sure what it is when that entire cost could buy the new bus. A new diesel bus right you know or or part of X, Y or Z, you know if we do retire that bus in theory we're looking at two buses right not necessarily one but, but then maybe you could justify one diesel at the cost of the batteries and then one and sustainability at something else so you know, maybe bumping the sustainability up with intent of electric buses or whatever and and that least putting in the equipment in the vehicle line item. One bus or two buses at the 150 level or 125 or whatever the base cost is for non electric and then investigating the hybrid option to. If there's hybrids there yeah. Alex. So many Joe just said some of the things that I was going to say, but then also so Sean when you were originally saying that you know the seven things that you know you all talked about changing the budget, one of the things you said was the net cost of the buses and the number and we need to do appropriate the full cost of the bus and we'd look to pull from old capital. Fund the piece from town, and then when the grant comes in you can place the old capital so. So what so, so the number that. So what numbers left in this budget for the bus or did we already pull the number like I want to make sure I'm understanding so the number and the original plan was the net number. Right. And so what we would need to do is add the hunt 200,000 approximately. And that Excel spreadsheet I'll send you out the updated sheet. But with old cap. Yeah, you'll see it as two items you'll see the sort of the net and then you'll see another line item for the old capital piece. So they'll go together. Okay, so I guess, and again this is where just like all the moving parts of figuring out where the money is going at the end of the day so to manage your point if we scrap the one bus now we're actually looking at two buses, right. And possibly one electorate possibly one diesel, possibly both. Yeah, like I guess there's just a little too many moving parts for me to even know what our recommendation is. Yeah, I think, I mean I don't think they're ready to scrap the bus yet the line I think what we would say is, or what it sounds like you're saying is reconsider that battery until you know where that bus is going to be valuable going forward. And again we're waiting to get it back and find out what the issues are. And if the issue is something that they say is, you know, once it's, it's going to work perfectly going forward. Maybe they keep trying again. The ironic thing about the buses it's like the nicest bus to drive so everybody wants to drive it. It just breaks down a lot it's like driving a golf car, you know, with the acceleration everything here about electric cars it's the same with the but it just has all these weird technology issues that aren't even really necessarily the bad it's not related to the batteries specifically it's the technology that operates the console and the dashboard and things like that so. So I think for both of those. I'm going to bring back hopefully more information next week that might give you clarity which direction to head in. And also just what I mean in the end I feel like we're throwing a lot of money at Stephanie which is amazing but at the end of the day like, what is the line item we're putting into a discretionary fund just so we know. Yeah. Right so that was my quick Alec are we adding another $250,000 to the $200,000. I can mention one more thing if the question I had is the charging infrastructure was in there but if for some reason we scrapped the elion. And we do get another electric bus. We might not need the charging infrastructure. I would hope that those the new bus and the old bus have compatible chargers. charging infrastructure such that the charger that's already there to charge the elion would not become obsolete completely. But that might also if if for some reason that that needs to go into calculation and thinking to. So it's 245. We did an amazing amount today in terms of ideas on the thing and I'll see what I can do to capture it in text on the beginning of a report back to the town manager. So if anyone has any additional and I'll try to get what's today is Thursday. I'll do my best to get a draft done by Monday. So I can send a draft out and people can mark it up and think about it. You know, and put where I don't get to something I'll just put placeholder for something more here, you know, to do it as a rough draft rather than complete.  Yeah, but I know just a minute, you know, and then the five year one I find those really useful those tables, you know as I'm going down to see, what did we push off to the next year what does the next, you know, why is, why is FY 26 so out of line and you can see it's because of the debt service that's coming on it's not that we bumped up something else. It's just we're finally seeing the big buildings start to show up. So, if you can get us get me that so whatever I put in to the cover part is at least more or less accurate on what this table is going to look like. I see we've got one member of the public so if there's, if no one else has comments right now I was going to open it up and see if there are public comments. And there is one member of the public. If you would like to speak and you raise your hand. I'm not seeing the hand go up. So, thank you, everyone. And we will, you know, the, I said I volunteered as minute taker I'll do my best to capture this and as the minute I took pretty good notes, just to encapsulate but you and Paul coming in was a gift to us, Sean, in terms of some things that were already on my list of do we really need this. So Pam, you have a, you're you muted. I was thinking that the, your report is really by topic so I know we jump back and forth. A number of times on various topics but but certainly it all really centered on just a couple topics. If that's helpful in terms of structure. And what we did last year. I mean just to make it simple that we in general approve the projects but here are some exceptions or here are some additional recommendations. So in this case we'd say we got an initial list then there were visions of it and we in general and then here are some additional comments. So it avoided having to talk about every vehicle and everything that didn't rise to the level of having a long discussion about it. Okay, and then to the extent and then the second section. It's up on the web. Sean can resend last year's and you know this is still an evolving document because I worked off of the original original draft but it gets repetitive in the back part where we tried it at the beginning just the big take homes of that are coming from us. So I'll try to do that the same way Pam you know where there aren't many topics that were specifically talking about the electric school bus the DPW equipment road, you know, resident being clear on this. So, so beyond that we're sort of accepting the changes and I can list the changes that were made. So, great. And everything is fungible. It is a first draft so it sounds like Sean you know if we can get to at least agreement next week, then it could move to final with me just sending a copy out with Alex as a reader if she's willing to do it. So you could all be looking at a final without having another meeting but we can also convene another meeting we have room for that Sean, do we schedule yeah. Yeah, we have the 30th we need another meeting. And so if it gets near enough with suggested changes and then people see the markup off of that. We can approve it by a process has been to allow us to just improve it by reviewing it and sending edit kinds of comments in. So we'll see if that works for us. Does this mean we're not meeting next week. We are meeting next week. Next week. Okay, I just committed to trying to get a rough draft of at least the recommendation section to everyone and I, you know, started playing with a little bit of last year on, you know, the leading things and saying recommendations here, you know, without knowing what they were and scrapping something so I think I can adhere to that so you're going to get a rough draft from me and Sean will give us this revised table. That's the table we're working off of since we agreed to those changes. You're showing us shown you'll be showing a surplus and we'll be recommending that goes into roads and sidewalks so we won't have allocated it yet. Right. Okay, does that work for everyone. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Kathy, I'll send to the video as soon as I get it. Okay, thanks.