Hi everyone, Sean with jaspyscasebrakes.com here doing 2021 tops gypsy queen baseball five box break two random teams each number three where all cards ship 15 spots one gets two random teams in the MLB and A couple of details about the break itself While I'm going through it. I will try to look for all the short prints as far as the like no names team swaps The I'll double check when actually when we're sorting We'll double check for the bazooka back short prints and stuff like that But I always suggest as well that anybody that is in this break when you get your cards go through and check the photo variation checklist and See if there's any short prints for your teams and go back through your base as well because Those don't stand out very easily even when we're sorting them on the second hand not just breaking them So here is our list of customers from Pasquale Pascarella down to Ryan Redmond copy the full list down and Double that up. So Ryan Redmond last spot mojo once and twice And here is the list of teams from the Diamondbacks down to the net Washington Nationals Dice will randomize both lists and pair them up five and three eight times eighth and final time Matthew Montmeson down to Ryan Redmond and eight times on the teams Eighth and final time white socks down to the blue jays so eight times on the teams eight times on the customers and eight on the dice Matthew Montmeson white socks Corey Christian Rockies William Rosenthal Pirates Ryan Redmond Nationals Corey Christian Mariners Pasquale Pascarella Astros Robert Lottie Cubs Pasquale Pascarella with the Padres Robert Lottie Giants Matthew Montmeson with the Mets Harry Stein with the Brewers Kyle Jack Dodgers Ryan Redmond Phillies William Rosenthal Tigers Ryan Redmond Yankees Corey Christian Cardinals and Rangers Ryan Redmond Royals Pasquale Pascarella Twins Harry Stein with Orioles Alan Murdock Marlins Ryan Redmond Braves Alan Murdock Red Sox Corey Christian with the Rays Pasquale Pascarella with the Diamondbacks Matthew Montmeson with the Indians Kyle Jack Reds Corey Christian Angels Matthew Matthew Montmeson A's and Ryan Redmond with the Blue Jays So that is the randomizer trade window is open if anybody here in this break is present and would like to try to trade for a specific team Here is your opportunity While you guys are coming up to play any possible trades I'm gonna pop over here to our breaking camera fresh case See Gypsy Queen Not right on there, but there's a code and everything for you Echo in Mexico So let's pop this open we're gonna figure out which five boxes from this case we're gonna do for this break Ryan has the Royals and the Nationals up for trade Didn't want to but it came out eventually So there are the two stacks five and five One two three on the dice for the boxes on the left four five six in the dice for the box is on the right. Good luck the tool So we're gonna go left Any takers on Royals or gnats if not give another 10 seconds So Ryan if not we'll go ahead and print and rip trade window going once trade window going twice trade window going three times Give it a close. So let's go ahead and print and rip Good luck guys. Here is five boxes of Gypsy Queen baseball First part of this break is just gonna be me pack stacking on this There are lots of packs 24 packs in a box Plus the box top Here is the finalists Thank you Ryan to everybody else for getting in on this break Maybe last break of the night up to you guys Plenty of more stuff on the site to do. There's the box topper pack We'll save all those till the end and do them all together end up with the Giants So what you're saying? Are they they're the ones that redid that Michael Jackson song on music, but I think that's Like is that what everybody that's what everybody knows them for right or is that a different band? Oh, that is them Okay I think I remember something about that. They're playing at the Orange County Fair Oliver Interesting I Won't be going to see that At least they're still together. Yeah That's cool. I mean that was a great like honestly straight for cover. That was a really good cover You know, it was a fantastic cover and easily one of the most memorable that's for sure in the master bathroom at least I think the master bathroom is like 85 80% done kind of I Think I don't know Playing with they're playing with e6 somewhere in LA not My heart is broken You know where I haven't gone in forever and I only went there to see shows Well, it was actually pretty fun Silver Lake and Pomona. I used to go out to Silver Lake and Pomona I went to a punk rock night market at an old punk rock venue that I used to go to Very cool it was like very nostalgic But it was cool to see like an actual Punk rock night market looks unreal I think it looks incredible my girlfriend all she can do is like like look at things and kind of go Oh, I thought this would be different I'm like I'm like well you picked it out. So you can't say it was me She's she's been she's happy with it. She's just There's one thing like one thing that she cannot stop like every time she looks at the The bathroom like in you know in its full What it is She just can't like take her eyes off of it. So she's like But yeah, I had to do I made a I made my deposit today for the flooring for the whole house So that'll be that's officially on the books too I'm just happy to be doing all this shit all at the same time at least, you know Now I should be happy about that and like it's a simple fix too It's just the tile the tile that she picked for the for the showers the shower walls isn't It's a it's a What's it called Why can't I think of it right now? No not tile flooring It looks like wood, but it's not so kind of tile Whatever it's called You'll know the name. I think it starts with a P Probably completely wrong. I don't know. It looks good. It's gray. What's like a wood like? Like like pattern inside of it But it's not wood. So it doesn't like it can't absorb water or anything like that But yeah, so like the problem with the that she's they can't get her mind over the The tile she picked for the bathroom for the shower It looks incredible Laminate there you go Antonio. Thank you very much Way off does not start with a P I think that's what that is it doesn't have finished edges on the tile that she picked So when they made Like the soapboxes the the cutouts For the indents with like the secondary tile that she wanted They use the other tile which is the way to do it for the framing right so like the top the sides and the bottom of the Input are the original tile and then the backing of the input is the secondary tile and It's not a finished edge. So the tile like white white, right?  I guess We'll see But the good news is she just got a monster promotion today I didn't think we would actually hear back about it until Friday, so she's extremely happy. It's charger stuff. I Should Right Mike women But I will say this I told her I was like listen like you pick it all out It just once you finalize what you like Show me and I was like and if there's anything I don't like all I'm gonna say is no I was like, but I probably won't say that So I think I I don't think I said none nothing to any of them There is Mike if you check the schedule that's pinned in there Look at the wall of orange and yellow. Those are the closest breaks There's like a random pack break of like prism draft picks football. It's just like a one box five five spot.  With the goat Easton stick So yeah, there's like a prison draft picks football random pack break one box five packs five spots total There's a couple other breaks on there that are close Um But I think Yeah, there's like a there's filler breaks You know the other ones that are all like kind of close also fillers But I mean we're gonna have to get the fillers done either today or tomorrow anyways, so But there's also those hip parade dual case breaks of for baseball and football Okay, cool. So here is the five boxes No, let's see what we got. Good luck everybody. So like I said, I'm gonna try to pay attention for any short prints as well Nice first auto Christian pache. That's a great start braves of Ryan Redmond Ryan integral part of why this break is happening right now He helped close it out remember guys all card ship Ryan Mountcastle for the Orioles Harry Stein mitz and a no name for the athletics of Sean Murphy Matthew Montemesson Nick Magical for the White Sox Matthew Montemesson Jake Kronoworth for the Padres Pasquale, Pasquarella Anthony Rizzo to 150 for the Cubs Robert Latte So as I said at the beginning of the break When you guys receive these obviously I'm checking for like the team swap and the No-name short prints All when we're sorting will also pull out any bazooka back short prints but when you get your Cards make sure to reference the short print checklist like the photo variation Short print high number whatever it may be And see if there's which ones relate to your team in particular And then go through those cards that may look like common and see if there's any short prints that are in there Matt Carpenter for the Cardinals. That's out of 250 Cardinals is Corey Christian So yeah, other than two autos per box Typically you will get you know a couple short prints here and there in each box sometimes you can get four or five so That's why I mean I highly suggest this is a very cool set with little quirks and things like that So it takes a little bit more effort than your normal set And I don't want something just sitting in a box somewhere that you could have been you know Selling for decent amount. I would abray you for the Yankees Ryan Redmond Joe Adele for the Angels That is Corey Christian Josh Bell out of 199 For the Nationals Ryan Redmond Jazz Chisholm for the Marlins That is Alan Murdoch Skim through these Bazooka backs while we're here What a what what pick do you guys have Oliver? Where are you guys at? Are you with you? Are you lottery pick this year? No. Oh Oliver by the way Went to Tigris Fuego today.    So but the al pastor was incredible carne asada was supposed to be spicy I got some spice in it, but nothing crazy. I like me some spice But I would highly suggest it for you in the fam shirt in a postal rookie Otto for the Rangers and they're good people customers here too, so Cory Christian and the Rangers Joey Bart for the Giants That's going to Robert Latte Kay, Ryan Hayes for the Pirates and William Rosenthal no name for the Mariners it is Joey Gerber Seattle Mariners Cory Christian Yeah, it's the same. You know who it is Oliver. It's it's Barron's Barron's restaurant. It's the same same same people same owner same everything. Um, he did come back in Oliver You know who else came in? Sultan Pekko he was the big long Pacific Islander Long hair it used to play for the Bengals Alex Kearlaw for the Twins Pasquale Pascarella Bobby Dahlback Red Sox Alan Murdoch. I wasn't here for either one of them But apparently apparently Pekko is really cool. Ryan Mountcastle Orioles Harry Steinmetz and Braxton Garrett to 50 for the Marlins Alan Murdoch Yeah, like a Thomas was helping him and Thomas said he's like he was the nicest man. I've ever met Alec Baum for the Phillies Ryan Redmond. I Was like that's funny because like he could crush you. He was like, yeah. Yeah, he was also one of the largest people ever met Christian Pache for the Braves and Ryan Redmond Dylan Carlson for the Cardinals That is Cory Christian and Bobby Dahlback purple to 250 for the Red Sox Alan Murdoch Dazz Cameron to 99 for the Tigers William Rosenthal Nick Madrigal White Sox Matthew Montemessen Jay Kronoworth for the Padres Pasquale Pascarella Luis Pasabe, that's a short print. You can see the name variation there For the Giants that is Robert Latte Keegan-Akin rookie Otto for the Orioles Harry Steinmetz so I'll check the back of these all for for Buzooka Prince at the end We still got three boxes ago and the box toppers Casey Meyes Otto for the Tigers That is William Rosenthal Dean Kramer short print name variation for the Orioles team name variation Harry Steinmetz Keep Ryan Hayes for the Pirates William Rosenthal Dylan Carlson for the Cardinals Cory Christian Bobby Dahlback for the Red Sox Alan Murdoch Joey Votto to 150 for the Reds Kyle Jack Alex Kearlaw for the Twins Pasquale Pascarella Ryan Mountcastle for the Orioles Harry Steinmetz Tyler Glass now to 75 for the Rays and Cory Christian Joe Adele for the Angels Cory Christian and Tom Hatch rookie Otto for the Blue Jays That is Ryan Reben Jazz Chisholm Marlins Alan Murdoch Runeau d'Or to 199 For the Rangers Cory Christian Ryan Mountcastle for the Orioles Harry Steinmetz and Hyunjin Ryu name swap or team name variation Blue Jays Ryan Redmond Joey Bart for the Giants Robert Latte Dylan Carlson for the Cardinals Cory Christian and Dean Kramer rookie Otto for the Orioles Harry Steinmetz Cabe Ryan Hayes for the Pirates William Rosenthal Bobby Dahlback for the Red Sox Alan Murdoch No, name Charlie Nasty C. Nasty Charlie Blackburn for the Red Sox or sorry for the Rockies Cory Christian Chuck Nasty Alex Kearlaw for the Twins Pasquale Pascarella It's a great nickname One of my favorite Chuck Nasty Then a rapper's name to Mitch Moreland that is to 250 for the A's Matthew Montmesson and Anderson Tejada rookie Otto for the Texas Rangers Cory Christian Eddie Rosario To 199 for the Cleveland Indians that is Matthew Montmesson Joe Dell for the Angels and Cory Christian and Jazz Chisholm for the Marlins Alan Murdoch One box left and then the box toppers And like I said, all these other ones will check for the bazooka back short prints and Pull those out sleeve top load those before they get to you But like I said in regards to the photo variations Image variations high number or short prints, whatever it may be. I highly suggest when you get your common cards you reference a photo variation or short print checklist for Gypsy Queen and Just zero in on the teams that you got in this break. See if there's anything in there And See if you found a gem that we missed for the Marlins Jazz Chisholm Alan Murdoch Alejandro Kirk rookie Otto for the Blue Jays Ryan Redmond and Jorge Mateo to 250 for the Padres and Pasquale Pasquarella Joe Dell for the Angels Cory Christian and Eric Hosmer. No name short print for the Padres Pasquale Pasquarella Tyler Glass now to 150 for the Rays Cory Christian Christian Pache for the Braves Ryan Redmond Luis Arias Otto for the Minnesota Twins Pasquale Pasquarella and his math and Madrigal for the White Sox Matthew Montmesson Jake Cronor for the Padres Pasquale Pasquarella Alec Baum for the Phillies Ryan Redmond And very nice Alec Baum Otto for the Phillies Ryan Redmond. That's numbered out of 50 So we got a third Otto in this box 49 out of 50 very nice I'll take a third Otto and a nice low number rookie like that Gary Sanchez to 75 for the Yankees That's Ryan Redmond as well. And there you go guys. That's the break very nice break Glad we finished on that Otto Gypsy Queen great stuff. Like I said, I highly suggest you reference a short print checklist Once you get the rest of these back Last thing we have to do is those box topper packs 15 cards all chrome all the time You could get another Otto here too Whit Merrifield blue to 150 for the Royals and Ryan Redmond nice Jake Cronor there for the Padres Pasquale Pasquarella and Will Chuck nasty to 150 Charlie Blackman for the Rockies again Corey Christian Joe Adele for the Angels Corey Christian Nick Madrigal for the White Sox Matthew Montmesson and Jorge Solaire to 50 for the K to C Royals and Ryan Redmond to finish it off and there you go guys. That does it. That's the break That was 821 tops Gypsy Queen baseball five box break two random teams each number three from jaspyscasebreaks.com I'm Sean jaspyscasebreaks.com. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you next time


The Mitchell Broadcasting System presents The Mysterious Traveler, written, produced and directed by Robert A. Eiffel and David Cobham, and starring three of radio's foremost actors, Brett Morrison, Joyce Gordon, and Leon Jemmick, and Fire in the Sky, with The Mysterious Traveler inviting you to join me on another journey into the realm of the strange and the terrifying. I hope you will enjoy the trip, that it will thrill you a little and chill you a little. So settle back, get a good grip on your nerves, and be comfortable, if you can, as we join two young people who find themselves in the strangest situation human beings ever encountered.  This late evening, and a convertible with the top down, is driving along a lonely road in the Shenandoah Valley. The driver is young, in his 20s, so is the girl beside him. There Mr. and Mrs. Nicholas Ramsey of New York City, married less than 24 hours, and honeymooning. Dick Ramsey is driving slowly, for both he and Sally are watching the great golden disk, which is rising in the sky above the hills to the west, not the moon, but the new comet, which the whole world is talking about with excited interest, and some apprehension. Nick, it's so bright. It's grown much brighter since last night. Yes, I know. It seems to be about half as big as the moon now. You can almost see it grow. It looks as if it were coming right at us. And it's just an illusion. It'll pass about 15 million miles away, the radio said. 15 million? That sounds like a lot, but I wish it were more. Oh, they said it wouldn't do much damage, even if it hit us head on. Comets are mostly gas, you know. Oh, it certainly looks solid. It is beautiful, though, isn't it? I'm glad we decided to drive tonight so we could watch it. Let's turn on the news and see what the radio says about it. I'll try Washington. Danny Don has been giving a blow-by-blow account of its approach. So, everybody, everywhere, this is your feature reporter, Danny Don, speaking from Washington. Well, the big news tonight is still Comet X, as it's been nicknamed. Tonight, it seems it's going to pass a little older, a bit closer than was thought. Maybe inside 10 million miles. But it's nothing to worry about. Can't hurt us any. Danny and his cabinet quietly left town today with their families and see Comet X through telescopes. Now, that just shows you how interested everybody is. The rest of the world is standing outdoors tonight, keeping an eye on the sky. Only once in a thousand years, and nobody wants to miss it. Well, folks, the government has asked me to pass along the follow-up. X seems to be getting awfully close. I guess there's nothing new up in it all. It's just an optical illusion. Look up ahead. Somebody's signaling us with a flashlight. Yeah, it looks like an old car. You're one of the local natives, I guess. Well, do you think we ought to stop? That's a lonely road.  Anyway, he's so old, he couldn't hurt us any. Might be glad you come along. I need some help, Pat. Help? It's my partner. Rock's slide fell on him, crushed his chest in. He's down in the mine. I need help to get him out.  That's right, ma'am. Name's Jones. Jerry Jones. We got us a mine up this road by the quarter of mine. Of course, Sam hurt himself hour ago, been waiting ever since for somebody to come along. Well, Sally, I guess it's up to us. We can't leave some poor fellow dying and not help. But, Nick, are you sure? I'm sure it's all right. OK, hop in, Mr. Jones. We'll have your partner out just as quick as we can. Cover his mind, chef. Come on, Sally. I'm sorry we haven't any first aid equipment, Jones. I've got some down below. This way, Mr. M.J., you have to go down on the lift. Nick, look how bright it is. The comet seems to be growing bigger by the minute. Here we are. Beb and Sally, folks. I got the flashlight. Come on. We've got a regular mine lift in here. Machinery and everything. What kind of mine is this? It used to be a coal mine. Got abandoned. Me and Sam, we found a little vein of diamonds down in the coal. Diamonds? Now, wait a minute. There aren't any diamond mines in this country. Sure there is. Got some down below. Prove it to me after we fix up, Sam. Please step on lift, Mr. M.J. Nick, I think this is a trick. So do I, a diamond mine. Listen, Jones, coal and diamonds don't go together, even though they're both carbon. So we're not getting on that lift. I'm afraid you have to, Mr. M.J. Believe me, I'll shoot if you try to get away. Nick, a gun. Now listen, put away that revolver. I don't know what kind of crazy scheme this is, but it's not crazy. I'm trying to save your lives. Save our lives? You see that comet in the sky? Yes. They're calling it Comet X. They should be calling it Doomsday. You are crazy. That's enough talk. In 14 hours, this Earth and that comet are going to meet, and time is precious. Get on that lift, Mr. Mrs. Ramsey, or I'll shoot. Believe me, no harm will come to you if you do just as I say. I guess we'd better do it, Sally. It's no use in arguing with a madman who has a gun. Well, if you say so, Nick. Now that's better. Now hold on tightly. Don't do anything foolish. You don't know how to operate this lift, and we have a thousand foot drop below us. Going down for so long now. We're almost at the bottom, Mrs. Ramsey. Please don't be frightened. I'm doing this for your own good. Say, who are you? You're not a native. You lost your hillbilly accent long ago. No, I'm not. It was just a crude disguise. My name is Terri Meyer Jones, formerly Professor Jones. Now, we've reached bottom. The surface of the Earth is a thousand feet above us.  But you'd be very foolish. You'll need me to get you out of here again. Yes, I suppose that's right. Very well, please walk quietly ahead of me. These old mine shafts are quite level.  I suppose we have to humor you, but why are you doing this? What are you up to?  So just walk ahead of me and we'll have the explanations later. Nick, I'm completely lost. Listen, Jones, if that's your name, come to your senses. Take us back to the surface and we'll forget this happened. Careful, there's a door ahead of you. Oh, yes. Push it open and go in. Shine your flashlight inside. We can't see a thing. You'll find a light switch beside the door. Turn it on. Nick, he's closed the door. He's locking us in. Jones! Jones! Turn on the light and just wait calmly. I'll be back. I have to go to the surface now to see if I can rescue anyone else. Jones! Jones! Oh, he's gone. Nick, Nick, I'm frightened. Now it'll be all right, Sally. I'm sure it will. Said there was a light switch, didn't he? Yes. Let's see if we can find it. It should be here beside the door. Maybe it's higher. Now I've got it. Good Lord. We're in a room. Completely furnished. Chair, tables, electric lights. There's even a radio. Through those archways, I can see a kitchen. Another room. But this place is like a furnished apartment. 1,000 feet underground with walls of solid rock. And he's locked us in here. But why, Nick, why? I don't know, Sally. I don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. How long have we been down here? It's 2 a.m. We've been locked in here nearly four hours. Nick, it's crazy. He's a madman, he must be. I wonder. If he's mad, there's certainly a method in his madness. But look around you. This furniture, a radio, a kitchen. There must be a generator someplace to supply these lights. That's what I mean. Only a madman would fix up an old abandoned mine like this. You know, I've just placed his name. Professor Jeremiah Jones. Who is he? He's an obscure astronomer who 10 years ago claimed to have discovered a comet no one else could see. And he dropped out of sight. He seems to have an obsession about comets. He said Comet X should be called Doomsday. Yes, yes, I know. And I can't help wondering. Let's turn on that radio again. I have a hunch we'll be getting some news soon. Real news. All right. Nick, how can a radio work way down here underground? It must have a wire running above to the surface. It's just music. So let's leave it on. It may be a bulletin. Special reporter Danny Dunn, back with a very important bulletin. Nick, should we go here? I've just come from a meeting at the Smithsonian Institute, and I have some last-minute news about our mysterious visitor, Comet X. He's leading up to something. Now, folks, I don't want to alarm you. Panic won't help anybody. But it looks as if there may be some danger after all. And it's only common sense to be prepared for it. Oh, Nick. It seems Comet X is not holding to the course predicted for it. Its orbit now intersects the Earth's. In about 10 hours, the Earth will pass through the glowing heart of the comet. And I repeat, there is no cause for undue alarm. I have Mr. Andrew Weatherby, head of the Scientific Bureau here at the microphone, to tell you in person what to expect, Mr. Weatherby. Nick, give me your hand. I'm frightened. Yes, this is big if they've got Weatherby himself on the here. Good evening, everyone. As you all know, a comet is composed largely of glowing gases. Now, just what effect these gases may have when the Earth passes through them, we do not know. But we anticipate they will be so tenuous, they will hardly be noticeable. However, accompanying the comet is a core of tiny particles of rock and iron. Now these entering our atmosphere will cause a spectacular display of shooting stars and may do some damage. Accordingly, the government is asking everyone to take the following precautions. Within the next eight hours, take shelter on the ground if possible. Otherwise, in cellars or in air-air shelters, take with you all the food and water you can manage. Take bedding, warm clothes, and be prepared to stay on the shelter for at least 48 hours. Begin your preparations now. You will receive further instructions by radio. But above all, remain calm. Well, folks, this is Danny Dunn again. I'll be standing by all night long to bring you the latest. Keep tuned in and don't worry. This will be a great story to tell your grandchildren. So long for now. Nick, there's something they're not telling us. I'm sure of it. Do you suppose it's a couple? Professor Jones back. Why, Professor? Nicky has two little children with him. Oh, one of them is just a baby, a little girl. Here, give it to me. There, there, it's all right. He must be crying. Everything's all right. Thank you. A few Mr. Ramsay can take this little boy. Fortunately, he's still sleeping. Yes, let me have him. I've got him.   I'm afraid I have been shot. Oh, I'll put the boy on the couch there. Yes, he's still sleeping soundly.  Let me get this coat off. I'm sorry, but I've got to come off. There. Oh, you've lost a lot of blood. Yes, I know it. Too much, I'm afraid.  Sally, can you help me? Yes, the baby's gone back to sleep. I'll put her down on the couch, too. Now, what shall I do, Nick? I'm going to cut away the shirt. You pull it loose as I cut. All right. How did you get shot, Professor? And where did you get those children? They went out to bring back more people to this shelter. There were no cars on the road. I went to a house a mile or so away. Family and some visitors were out in the lawn watching the comic. That's fine, Sally. Now, give me something to wipe away the blood. Oh, here, my scarf. I knew if I tried to persuade them, they'd think I was crazy. I saw the children, boy and a girl, sleep in the back room. I stole them. The baby woke up and cried. Somebody shot at me. I got away in the darkness. Catch him, Nick. I've got him. Help me ease him into this chair. All right. He's passed out from the loss of blood. And here we are, stuck down in an old mine 1,000 feet underground with two children that he's taken from their families. Mr. Lindsay. Yes, here I am. So you're awake. How are you feeling? Very weak, I'm afraid. How are the children? Oh, they're fine. Luckily, they're too young to be scared. Sally's out in the kitchen feeding them. Now look here, Professor. It's one thing to lure us down here. It's another thing to steal two babies and bring them. Please, Mr. M.Z., face the facts. Haven't I convinced you the entire world is in grave danger? Danger? From what? A few chunks of stone that may be part of a comet? The radio last night admitted some damage might be done. Some damage? What do the broadcasts say now? I don't know. We haven't listened. After we got you in the bed last night and took care of the children, Sally and I just fell asleep. Since we woke up, we've been so busy, we haven't had a chance to listen. Turn on the radio now. Let's listen. Of course. While you were going, Andrew Weatherby urged everyone to take shelter for a few days. So everybody, this is Dan Dunn, sleepy, but still on the job. Well, I guess you won't find anything else on the radio this morning except the comet.  It's about four hours before its path intersects ours. Four hours. I repeat again the official advice. Take shelter. Stay undercover for the next few days, but don't panic. Panic is more dangerous than the comet, believe me. I have to admit that a lot of people have, unfortunately, lost their heads the last few hours. Roads leading out of every city are clogged with refugees trying to get away. But many people have been killed in the crush of crowds fleeing the cities. We have reports of hundreds of auto accidents, some looting. Fires are burning unchecked in a number of places. Firemen are fleeing with the others. Washington this morning is a deserted city. So many people here have autos, you know, and they were able to get away. All the air raid shelters are full. People in them are being very calm about it. Our news from other places is a bit scanty. Some lines are down. I'll keep bringing you all the bulletins as they come in. Right now, I've got to get a little rest, so this is then done, signing off temporarily, folks. Well, are you convinced now, Mr. Ramsey? Oh, people are losing their heads because they're scared. But that still doesn't say the comet is actually dangerous to the earth. Yes, I know. It wouldn't be if it was just an ordinary comet. But it isn't. Well, what is it then? Mr. Ramsey, the fiery head of comet X is radioactive. Radioactive? It will envelop the world in a searing bath of atomic fire. In a dozen hours, civilization will have come to an end. How's the prophetic? Unconscious. His fever is high, and he's in a delirium. His pulse is very weak. Only we could do something for him. I've done what I could from the medicine chest. In his mind now, he's reliving the time 10 years ago when he first discovered comet X and predicted that it was radioactive. He predicted that? Yes. As we had quite a talk while you were busy with the two kids, he was an obscure professor of astronomy in a little college. He found a speck of light wandering around in the sky, identified it as a comet, analyzed it as being radioactive, and predicted that on its next visit, it would strike the earth. And nobody believed him? Well, the comet had vanished by then. Everybody thought he'd imagined it. And when he claimed it was radioactive and would destroy civilization, that was too much. He was fired. He had a breakdown and was in an institution for years. Oh, yes. Now I remember. I read something about it years ago. But the war was on him. And people had other things to think about. Everybody forgot Professor Jones and the comet. You see, the atomic bomb hadn't been developed then, so the idea of an atomic comet was considered plain crazy. And now it's come true. Oh, Nick. Yes. Let's turn the radio on again and see if Danny Dunn is still broadcasting. All right. What time is it? Well, my watch says eight. Must be eight at night. No way to be sure a way down here underground. Well, everybody knows. I don't guess there's much more I can see. A broadcasting from the south basement of the building is about six of us locked in here. I don't know how much longer we can hold out. We haven't had any communication from outside Washington for the last hour. All wires are dead. Can't pick up any other radio broadcasts. Washington's a dead city now. It's a weird sight. We have a television camera hooked up on the roof. Shows all of the big government buildings outlined by a ghostly greenish light, luminous gas surrounding the head of comet X. Right in the middle of the comet now, be about six hours before it starts to withdraw. Anybody who can hear me, stay underground as long as you possibly can. Don't come out. The radio activity will be deadly for a long time yet. That's to be fair. One guess was that our earth will be poisoned for 20 years to come. Now it seems to be pailing. I guess we'll have to sign off now. So long, everybody. He's gone up the air. Nick. Nick, think of the whole world dead. Now, now, now, wait a minute, darling. It's bound to be millions of people in safe places like we are. Caves, tunnels, old mines. Yes, but did you hear what he said? The earth may be poisoned by radioactivity for years. Yes, Professor? Ed, I'd like some water. Of course. I'll bring it. Here you are, Professor Jones. Thank you. How are you feeling? My head is clear, but I'm very weak. How long was I unconscious? Almost two days. Two days? In the comet. Has come and gone? In the world. The radio's dead. We can't pick up anything. A last report from Washington said it was a dead city. Only they listened to me 10 years ago. Now you mustn't upset yourself, Professor. You did everything one man could. Yes, yes. When I was released from that institution last year, I set about fixing up this refuge. I bought the old mine. All by myself, I brought down furnishings, machinery, food. When I tried to get a few people to join me here, I thought I was insane again. We understand, Professor. In the end, I had to resort to desperate trickery, which got you here. And we're very grateful for it, sir. I stole two children, the boy and the girl. Out of the whole world, you're forever saved. But there must be other people alive somewhere. Yes, yes, of course. Now, by the time the surface of the earth is livable again. Will it really be 20 years? Yes, Mrs. Ramsey. Between 15 and 20 years before the human race can once again live on the earth's surface. But in even 15 years, the people who are still alive now. Exactly. Some will live. Human race is very tough. But they may be terribly changed. To reestablish civilization, we can only be sure of you four. Oh, no. Dear, you mustn't be dismayed. I've planned carefully. Is everything you'll need for 20 years down in this cavern? Medicine, food, clothing, books, gasoline? You must not go above ground until it is absolutely safe. Then you will find the world changed. And in your life, plant life, it may have been altered greatly by the radioactivity, but it will be safe then. Professor, you're too weak to talk. Oh, no, I must talk now. I haven't much more time. Of course you have. You're going to get well, Professor. We need you. I wish I could, but I won't. And now listen, build for a better world. We seem to have gotten off the track somehow. Maybe nature simply decided to be done with us when she sent that comet. I don't know, but this is a chance to start over again and do better. Professor, Professor Jones. Nick, Nick is not. I'm afraid he is. He's dead, darling. We're left, you and me, down here 1,000 feet underground. We have to live here 20 years or more. But you can't give way, Sally. You've got too much to do. Listen. Mr. Baby, I've got to go to her. That's what I mean. We have to take good care of those kids. Yes, of course, Nick. Of course we do. And we'll have to give them names. We could call them Adam and Eve, but let's not. Suppose we just call them Johnny and Susie. Yes, Nick. I'm coming. I'm coming. Check up on something. Would you just step outside and have a look at the sky? There's a speck of light up there just to the right of the North Star. It wasn't there last night, and I was just wondering if you... but it couldn't be a comet, of course not. And even if it is, I'm sure we're in no danger. Of course, if you'd like to know the location of a nice deep cave, you have to get off here. I'm sorry, but I'm sure we'll meet again. I take this same train every week at the same time. Heard the mysterious trapler with Maurice Tarplin in the title role. Others in our cast were Brett Morrison, Joyce Gordon, and Leon Janney. Original music played by Fred Mendelson. All characters in our story were fictional. And any resemblance to actual persons in name or otherwise was purely coincidental. Little talk and speaking, this program has come to you from New York. For news as it happens, from where it happens, listen to the Mutual News Reel every week or evening over most of these same mutual stations.


The following contains strong language, nudity and scenes of a sexual nature.  I love Josh more than anything Karen, honestly, right? I have never met someone so chilled, like so laid back. Last year, we all went for our cards read and she said to our Josh, before the end of the year you're going to meet the one who Josh does not believe in it.  Yes. I genuinely feel like a fully fledged member of the Richie family. This is the first time I've ever been close to a boyfriend's family. They make us feel so comfortable. It's actually so amazing. So what are you thinking about? Marrying my son. You are so after marrying my son. Well, Karen, do you think I'd be a good daughter-in-law? I think so. I think I'd be okay. Oh, sure, yeah? Just okay. I'd be the best daughter-in-law you could ask for. Chin-chin. Pretty sure. You want your children to be happy and loved up, as we say in Bolton, you know? I think next year there'll be an engagement. 100%. 100%. And I think she's definitely daughter-in-law material. Darling Crosby, and if you're enjoying this channel as much as I think you are, hit the subscribe button for even more amazing MTV videos.


All right, should we get started? OK, this talk is about scaling Ironic. Before I get started, I'm curious how many of you have used or developed on Ironic? Excellent, about half of you. Cool. So what does this talk about? There's a lot of stuff I want to cover here. Essentially, this is the story of how we at Rackspace built onMetal. OnMetal is a public cloud deployment of Ironic. It's multi-tenant. It's secure, believe it or not. And this is how that came to fruition. So back in February, we started hacking on Ironic. That's when our first commit went in. In May, we did our initial deploy with the first deploy we really did with hardware at all. In July, we released this to the public and started getting users on it. And today, we build and delete over 1,000 instances a day. So it's running at scale. And so what I really want to talk about is how using OpenStack allowed us to do this. And more importantly, how using Ironic allowed us to do this. I want to get into what went well, what didn't go well, and what other projects can learn. So who am I? Why should you listen to me? I'm Jim Roland Hagan. I'm J-roll on FreeNode. I'm in like a million channels. You can find me easy. I'm a core reviewer on Ironic. I'm a developer. I'm a deployer. I'm a user. So going back to when this first started, back in the day, some people at Rackspace got together. And they had done a lot of distributed systems, deployed large software systems.  There's too much human interaction. It's really slow to scale up. It can take weeks to get a new server and get it installed and racked. You need to manage your own hardware. If RAM dies, you have to go in and fix it or order a new server and wait a month. It's horrible. You can't scale an application that way. But cloud hosting sucks, too. You've got noisy neighbors. You've got the virtualization tax. There's companies out there like Netflix who have built entire engineering teams working around the deficiencies of the cloud. It's really hard to build an application on it. You have to work around a lot of things. And so what if we could get the best of both worlds and get bare metal servers in minutes? Even better if we can do that with an API, with open hardware, like open compute, and open software. And one of the people that conceived it, he was the founder of Mailgun. He kind of put it best when he said, our mission and goal in life is to destroy proprietary control of the data center. And I believe OpenStack has a similar mission. We want to destroy proprietary control of the cloud. This right here is our team's kind of logo, mascot, motto. You may have seen us wearing shirts like this before. Anyway, so we want to destroy proprietary control. Clearly, we will use OpenStack, right? Well, no. So back in those days, we looked at Ironic. This was around the Havana release, I believe. And it wasn't even close to ready. It had one deploy driver available, which tends to work, but it's a little insane the way it does things. And furthermore, we wanted to build a product really fast and didn't want to get slowed down by the OpenStack process. And so why that driver is so insane? The deploy RAM disk is written in Bash. Not very easy to write good software in Bash. It uses DNS mask for DHCP. It actually uses Neutron. Neutron only provides DNS mask. DNS mask on its home page on the internet clearly says, like, this is for small-scale deployments. And so we didn't want to use that. It also uses TFTP. TFTP doesn't really scale for large images. You can easily do CRAS over TFTP. But beyond that, you're going to get a lot of failures. It uses iSCSI. The deploy RAM disk, how it works, is it basically boots up, finds the first disk, exposes that as an iSCSI volume, and then Ironic mounts that volume and DDs an image across the network. That doesn't seem scalable, right? And there's stateful conductors in Ironic. There's two pieces, the API and the conductor, where the conductor does work. The problem is that Ironic pixie boots instance images as well. And so you have the kernel and RAM disk locally on that conductor that's managing the node, which means, one, if the conductor goes away, you're screwed. And two, if it goes away, you have to fail over somehow. That failover now contains downloading images from Glantz and getting them ready and in TFTP and not just adjusting a hashering. And so what we did, we went and built our own thing. We called it Teeth. We built TeethAgent, which is a deploy RAM disk, or I guess it's a Python application that runs in the deploy RAM disk. Then we built TeethOverlord, which is the ironic side of things. It's the server application kind of manages everything. And that went great. So early February, we had a prototype working. We were deploying servers. Everything was good. We're on track for our deadlines. And then this guy shows up. For those that don't know him, that's Chris Barons. He's a Novakor. We chat for a while and reevaluate ironic. And we realize that open stack is the right thing to do. Rackspace started open stack. We want to support it. Ironic was close, but not quite there. But let's just help it get there. And so after that, we went to the mid-cycle meetup. This was back in March. We talked about what we were doing, what our goals were. To some extent, we didn't expose our product. But we said we wanted to do secure, multi-tenant bare metal. And turns out, Ironic wanted to build this Python agent thing for about a year and just hadn't gotten around to it. And so they were thrilled that we brought all this code with us and wanted to share it. And we ended up making a new project, Ironic Python agent, IPA for short, which is a great acronym. And then we began to take Teeth Overlord and munch that into a deploy driver for Ironic. So we fixed most of the problems we saw here. The RAM disk is now in Python. It allows us to write decent software, allows us more flexibility with what we can do. We made it work with iPixie, which is similar to Pixie. It can bootstrap into HTTP. And then we can serve those large images over HTTP, which is an easily solved problem. It gave us restful APIs. How IPA works is essentially it boots up, exposes this REST API that has commands and command results and that sort of thing. And Ironic can just call those APIs, tell it what to do, for instance, cache an image, write an image, deploy a config drive, and get the box ready to go. And because we write whole disk images and boot from disk, this gets rid of all the state in the conductor, which gives us a better failover in HA story. Ironic had always had a really great driver API that was completely pluggable. It allowed us to quickly get our agent driver in there, except the abstraction was not perfect. There were some assumptions there that worked great for the Pixie driver, and it did not work for us. So we had to do a lot of patches and a lot of work ahead of time to be able to make our driver work as expected. And so we quickly learned that being the second driver is hard. There's assumptions you've never seen before. Regardless, we dove in headfirst. And I think this is the greatest contributor to our success. Instead of contributing a couple patches here and there, our entire team, when 100% into Ironic, started interacting with the community, putting up patches, reviewing code, fixing general architecture things, even if we didn't really care about them. And some of us spent up to 80%, 90% of our time upstream. And it turns out upstream is hard, as I'm sure all of you know. We moved really fast. We got this out really fast. And so we had and still have a lot of patches downstream that were still working to upstream. Luckily, Rackspace has been doing this for a while with other projects. And so we had the infrastructure in place to maintain those packages downstream.  Our patches touched a lot of different places in Ironic. We're making new driver interfaces and that kind of thing. And so we can never automatically rebase. And we have to manually do this every so often to catch up with trunk. Anyhow, so soon we had a thing. We got things working. Part of it was upstream. Part of it's downstream. We had a lot of existing deploy infrastructure at Rackspace. So we quickly got a pre-production environment up. We had about 50 servers there, real bare metal. As far as we knew, that was the largest deployment of Ironic already. We found some minor issues, little bugs here and there.  And so to production, we brought up a similar environment that I had. That's our data center that our production gear was going to. We started out with 4x there and some beta customers. And everything seemed mostly fine.  Things were good. And then we started bringing in more hardware. And at first, we started adding one rack at a time, testing things out. Everything was still good. So then we got overconfident and just added everything. And this is kind of what it looked like. So what happened there? There's a few major things that happened that were kind of core problems to us. First of all, it turned out our agent is really chatty. We have this patch that keeps deploy agents always on and running. And that removes one post cycle and faster boot times and our customers are all happy. But we need a heartbeat for that. And so our agents heartbeat periodically. And when we added all these new racks in, we added the DHCP configs. The computers were already on. They instantly booted like hundreds and hundreds of agents, like tripled our API traffic. And everything just kind of fell over. But luckily that's just APIs, right? Just scale those out. We were good to go. A second problem that's kind of core to Ironic is that IPMI is just bad and horrible and slow. Ironic has a periodic task in the conductor to go and verify the power state for each node in its database or each node that the conductor is managing. And it does this in serial. So the default time for this loop is once per minute. And that's always been good for everyone because everybody's running it with two servers, three servers, et cetera. We were running two conductors with hundreds of servers. And one minute was not nearly enough. Also with Python and networking and threads, when you reach out to the network and the network takes seconds and seconds and seconds to respond, things don't go so well. And so that loop was taking minutes at a time. We had to back that off, which put us at risk for a server dying and us not knowing about it fast enough and trying to deploy to it. But that was an okay trade-off for us. We also ended up scaling out our conductor cluster a bit to deal with that. So this is still a problem. Distributed locking is really, really hard. This is a huge operational pain point for us. Essentially what Ironic does today, whenever it performs an action on a node, it puts a conductor host name in the database and if that's in that column, then that node is locked. Turns out that you can't put a TTL on a MySQL column, right? And so if a conductor dies, you do a deploy and restart it, something like that, that lock will get stuck. If there's an exception while a lock is happening that could get stuck. Most of those issues are fixed right now. But this remains a huge pain point. We have a session tomorrow to talk about if Ironic is locking too much or if we should do a better locking thing. We also have a patch in Garrett that uses ZooKeeper for locking instead of the database, which would allow us to do TTLs and things like that. But when you're deploying things to hardware, TTLs are kind of hard. And lastly, Ironic breaks Nova's world completely. If you ask any of the Nova guys about this, they will tell you that we're dumb. Basically how Ironic works with Nova is we've got this clustered compute manager, which basically can take many Nova computes and put every Ironic node on every one of those computes. So these things end up with thousands of compute nodes according to Nova and it wasn't really built for that. Our resource tracker loop is taking about five minutes in production right now to just collect resources. And so we had to put some hacks in there. Chris Barron's went in and hacked some stuff together, made that loop longer, made it so the compute hosts wouldn't time out, that kind of thing. Secondly, since Nova only locks in process on the Nova compute process, you end up with race conditions between the two Nova computes. And so you'll get a build goes here and a build goes here. They both schedule the same node and things blow up. Or you get a build here and a delete here and that doesn't work out well either. And we mostly coded around these things, it's still kind of a pain point for us and we hope to fix that in Kilo. And that's really it. Ironic was really great for us in terms of scalability. It turned out even though it wasn't integrated, it was production ready. Integration is not a production ready stamp. Of course, we found like small bugs and needed features that can only be found by running this in production. For example, turns out when a conductor had an exception in the heartbeat thread, say it couldn't connect to the database, that conductor would stop heart beating, keep running, we wouldn't notice and suddenly your conductors are gone. So little bugs like that that we fixed. And so it ended in great success. We launched our product on time. We became valued members of the community. We helped Ironic push forward and Ironic helped push us forward as developers. I can't tell you how much I've learned by becoming an open stack developer, doing code review with hundreds of people. You just learn a ton about good process and whatnot. And so in the future, we look forward to scaling this even more, scaling it to multiple regions, multiple cells, making Ironic even faster and better. And so why does this matter to you all? Well, there's a couple of things you can do and learn from this. First is a shameless plug. Come build this with us. Ironic's got a really, really great team, we're really fun people, I swear. If you're at all interested in it, join us, jump in our IRC channel, develop on it, run it, document it, whatever your strength is, we would love your help. And secondly, you can do the same for your project, whatever project you are kind of day, ANOVA, Neutron, et cetera. Go deploy it, run it yourself, depend on it if only within your local development environment. That's, in my opinion, the best way to find the pain points that one, deployers go through, and two, people that run it at scale go through. I mean, after all, what's a project without users? And so that's all I have. I guess we're quite a bit early. Any questions? Yeah. We use Open Compute. Right, so actually what we do is run Ironic in its own cell. Rackspace was already running cells everywhere. We put Ironic in its own cell, and so we don't have to mix and match the two. So actually, Jay and Josh over here, I have a talk on that tomorrow at 11 o'clock. Okay, 4.30. Oh, sorry. It was how do you, what do you do after a tenant leaves to make sure the box is secure for the next tenant? So yeah, they've got a talk on this. It's some really interesting stuff. TLDR is signed firmwares, security-racing disks, that kind of thing. Right, so you can run Ironic with one Nova Compute process or more. But each of those processes will know about every Ironic node and see that as a Compute node. See it as a hypervisor, so to speak. And so Nova was built with the idea that you would run Nova Compute on the same machine as the hypervisor, so it has a single hypervisor there. So that resource tracker loop does a ton of database stuff, which with one hypervisor is fine with thousands, it's not. Well, right now every Nova Compute sees every physical box. So I think this, there's a few different ways to solve it. We definitely want to shard it. We're not sure how to solve the HA problem, maybe just active passive failover, something like that. But we're looking into that this cycle. Yeah, so the question was, why does Nova think the bare metal nodes are hypervisors when really Ironic is a proxy? It's for resource tracking and for scheduling. It works out best that way. I think we, I'm not sure on the specifics of that, I haven't dove too much into Nova, but I think there'd be a lot more hacking going on if we thought of it a different way. It is, I think it is a breakdown either way. Yep, yeah, so we have a flavor class of on metal, and then there's a couple other flavor classes for at Rackspace, and cells can advertise that capability that they can handle that flavor class. The current scale number, I can't say specifically how many hosts we have, but we do do 1,000 something builds a day, mostly by our QE team, or even greater than 10. Like triple OCI runs Ironic, and they're the only other deployment that I know of that's more than 10 nodes. Yes, awesome, anything else? All right, thanks everybody for coming.


Jimmy, so my question is, can Jimmy Butler drag this team not only to one win, but to four wins and shock the world? No, I'm sorry to pull the plug on. I'm not gonna be a prisoner of the moment or let recency bias conquer the fact that they have to win four out of seven games in which a team is as dominant in transition as I've seen since the death lineup with the 2016, 2017, 2018 Warriors, that squad. I don't think they just have the firepower to match that four out of seven times. Now, if this was March Madness and it was sudden death in any given Sunday type deal, then sure, like we saw it last night, they may be able to advance, but they need a healthy bam out of bio. They need a healthy Goren Dragon, which still isn't guaranteed. Let's not take that away from what we saw in game three. I just don't know really how you replicate that. And in reference to your quote, it's all about winning. Jimmy also continued to say that, I hope I go out there and scored zero points next game. We win so I can sit down and give you the same exact answer and show you how much I don't care. And at this point, usually when a player says something like that, it's lip service because they're just trying to be good PR. They don't want to get dragged on the internet, okay? These guys are very, they're professionals. They're very well trained in media. But the difference is Jimmy Butler, when he says things, he's sick enough to actually believe them because when he's saying we should be favored to win this game, I guarantee we win this game and everyone's like, okay, we get it. You have to say something like that.  Like that's how I actually believe it. And he's out there barking back at LeBron James. He's got the audacity, he's got the gall to look at LeBron and say, you in trouble? And I know he was just giving it back to him because it's what he said to him the first half. You gave that to LeBron James down 0-2. This guy's nuts. Sometimes it takes a certain level.


In this video you'll learn how you can unlock the full potential of service design by avoiding the pitfalls of a copy and paste approach to the practice. Here's the guest for this episode. Let the show begin. Hi, I'm JJ. This is service potential episode 174. Hi, my name is Mark Fontijn and welcome back to the service design show. On this show, we explore what's beneath the surface of service design, what are those hidden and invisible things that make all the difference between success and failure all to help you design great services that have a positive impact on people, business and our planet. Our guest in this episode is Jung Jolie, also known as JJ. JJ has a long and rich history in service design, going all the way back to her PhD in 2012 at the Altar University in Finland. Today, JJ is the deputy head at the National University of Singapore in the division of industrial design, exploring what's beneath the surface of service design. That's what the show is all about. And I've been saying that for a very long time. And in this conversation with JJ, we're going to live up to that saying more than ever. JJ is in a pretty unique position. She has seen firsthand how service design is taught and practiced in Europe. And now being in Singapore, she has an up close perspective on how service design is practiced in Asia. And she says that people in Asia are for lack of a better word, adopting the Western approach to service design. But as you might have guessed, this type of adoption doesn't come without any challenges. It's relatively easy to copy the surface layer of service design, the artifacts, the workshops, the story of the double diamond. But it's much harder to grasp the underlying dynamics, to understand and see and recognize the invisible value that's being created, to know when you should deviate from the standard process. And this surface layer approach to service design causes problems because despite all the work that you're doing and the outputs that you're creating, it's probably not making a lot of impact. So unsurprisingly, clients start to doubt if this service design thing works at all. Now, although our conversation focuses on the cultural differences between continents and countries, the same lessons just as easily apply on a much smaller scale. Every company has its own unique culture. So what does that mean for how you practice service design? So if you stick around for the entire conversation, you'll hear how you can adapt service design to better fit your culture, how you can encourage clients to look beyond the short-term deliverables and why you need to ditch the double diamond sooner than later. If you enjoy conversations like this that help you to grow as a service design professional, make sure you subscribe to the channel and don't miss any of the future conversations. That about wraps it up for the intro. So now it's time to jump into the conversation with JJ. Welcome to the show, JJ. Hi, happy to be here. Hi, Mark. Hi, everyone. Awesome to have you on the show. We've never met personally, but we've had some online encounters before. I'm always excited to have people from Asia because it's really hard for me to sort of explore the service design community there. And I think you're a great person to help us understand a little bit more as well. Us in Europe and America, what's happening around service design in Asia will dive into that in a second. But before we do that, could you maybe give a brief introduction into who you are and what you do these days? Because I think that's going to be very relevant. Yeah, sure. My name is JJ. Now I'm doing the research and teaching on service design here in National University of Singapore. And I'm also a director of service design at Singapore, which I established as a collaborative platform to work with various organizations from the public sector, private companies and also social sector. To promote service and capabilities and to help them to do the Schumer Center service development and innovation and also help them to embed decent capability within their organizations. So I've been working with various government agencies, the ministries in Singapore and there's the private companies. And so what I've been doing was I've learned all these notions and practices of service design and co-design. My service design work builds on the empathic design and co-design, which I learned from Finland. So I'm trying to bring those notions and practices in the context of Asia and doing the different experiments with different people. So yeah, so here I am now. I think you are somehow linked to episode 169. Oh, and the name, help me, help me with the name. Kim Sika Payakalio. Yes, exactly. Well, we talked about CX Governance and she definitely recommended that I reach out to you. And I think you collaborated in Finland together. Yes, Finland Helsinki, the art university is where we actually started the PhD study together. So since then, it was back in 2007. So for like five, six years, we've been doing many exciting projects on co-design, the service design with different people. So that's, I think, how I kind of got the very first training and the knowledge about service design together with Krissika. And we are really the partner in crime and best friend in the crew. Awesome, great to hear that. OK, JJ, as always, we have a lightning round with five questions that I haven't prepared you for. This is just to get to know you as a person next to the professional a little bit better. Just the first thing that comes to your mind, these aren't trick questions or anything complicated. So are you ready? Yes, let's do that. I'll try. What's your favorite food? Oh, that's the most difficult questions. OK, the thing that comes to my mind is Korean barbecue. Not sure you have tried. I don't think so yet, but I'll add it to my list. What did you want to become when you were a kid? Oh, OK. Oh, yeah, I wanted to become a TV show producer to meet celebrities. Interesting. OK, what is your hidden talent? Maybe synthesis, kind of seeing the patterns and trying to kind of extract into synthesis. Yeah, since I said it is not hidden anymore. Well, that's that's that's purpose of this question. Moving on, question number four. If you could recommend one book for us to read, which book would you recommend? To have or to be by Eric Frum? I have a credit added to my reading list. And the fifth and final question, which is a tradition here on the show, do you remember the first time you heard about service design? OK, yeah, I think it actually touches on what I already kind of shared in the beginning. It was 2007, probably in February, in Art University. Back then, it was called University of Art in Design, Health, and Key. And it was a gathering where the new PhD students gathered together and kind of introduced to each other and introduced their kind of research topic. And I think you can guess who that person was. But one of our peer students said, OK, my PhD study is about service design. And I am collaborating with the companies like GONE, the Finland-based elevator manufacturing company, and Banks, and Finair. And when I heard that for the first time, I was like, wow, is there a such a thing like that? Because by that time, I came from, I had a background in human-computer interaction design. So around that time, I was a bit like sick and bored of making the graphic user interfaces for 3D mobile phones and doing all this information architecture. But the fact that design for services was really eye-opening to me. So that's, I think, how it all began. That also shook my PhD project a bit. 2007 was a great year to get into service design. I think that's also around the time that I sort of first started dipping my toes into the field. And look where we are today, 16 years later. That's right. So JJ, let's explore our topic of today. And you summarized it as service design beyond Western countries. And I think Western culture might be more appropriate even here. You had an even better annotation, which I really love, is celebrating the plurality of service design. Awesome word. First of all, I think this is super relevant. And we've tried to touch upon this a few times on the show, like the different flavors of service design, contextualizing it to the local cultures. Still a lot to learn and explore here. First of all, I'm really curious, how did you arrive at this topic? Because you studied service design in Finland. Now you're in Singapore. Can you take us through your journey on how your thinking and thoughts have evolved around this topic and why it is important to you? So a lot of questions. But yeah, just an introduction to set the stage, maybe. Yeah, sure. Yeah, happy to share that. Maybe let me start with the plurality of service design. I think we all know that service design itself has a very multiple plural connotations, right? And it itself was originated from operations, management, and marketing. And it was adopted by different disciplines, including interaction design, industry design, and so on and so on. And because of that, there was a kind of critical voice that service design is poorly understood, even in academia and education scene. And so for the past decade, I think many service design researchers and scholars were trying to define what service design is and what service design entails. So there are a lot of books and articles and the presentation around the definition of service design. What is service design? Anyway, what we talk about service design when we talk about service design. But for past recent years, I've been also seeing the more and more voice that, OK, plurality of service design is actually the characteristic of service design. Because it's very diverse contribution areas. It can be adopted across many different sectors. So why don't we just take it as one of the key characteristics of service design? So instead of trying to define service design into a single definition, why don't we just reveal in the share all those of plural faces of service design in different contexts? And the plurality of service design to me, I think my personal interest to look at it has to do with the culture context. Perhaps also it has to do with my personal journey, as you have mentioned. So I was actually, I feel very thankful and lucky to learn about service design and co-design in Finland. Because as far as I believe, Northern Europe. And also being in Finland, we are able to interact with the other neighboring countries like Netherlands, Sweden, and so on. So there, the understanding of service design was quite matured. And in our project that I have done with Osukirushika, we were always positioning service design in the context of system and complex collaborative network of stakeholders. So even the key deliverable of service design can be really the new collaborative network, not like any customer and touch point design. So in negotiation, a facilitation of collaborative itself was the key deliverable of service design. So I kind of got that understanding of service design and came to Singapore. But it came to Singapore. And in Helsinki, I was also lucky to have a chance to work with various government organizations like City of Helsinki, Helsinki Libraries. So I've done those projects. And I joined Singapore in 2014. And there was actually about a time that a few Singapore government organizations became interested in the new approaches like design thinking, service design. So they were kind of trying to try, willing to try those things. We got connected and I was lucky to really have a city of services and projects with the Ministry of Manpower, Ministry of Education, the taxation office here, and the government technology agencies here and so on. Then I've been talking about this work to different audiences. And I am originally from Korea. And I also kind of shared my work in Singapore and also in Helsinki to start Korea. And I got in touch with various service designers in Asian countries like in Japan, Thailand, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea and so on. Then I've actually observed and realized there are actually similar things happening in Asian countries like Korean governments were also trying to adopt service design for public service design. The same thing, a similar thing, was also happening in Thailand together with UNICEF. And Japan was also trying to adopt service design to afford their digital transformation to become an EE government. But those kind of things were hardly heard by global audience or hardly visible by global services and communities. Perhaps due to, I don't know, language or there are not really like service design academia people who are willing to write about it. There are a lot of the number of literature about service design in the context of public sector in journals and books. But most of those are from the Europe and the States and more recently in South America. But it's very hard to find the cases and the work from Asian countries. So with that question, I've been kind of looking around what is actually happening in those organizations who are willing to and who are adopting the service design and trying to make some change in the way they work in their organizations. So I've been kind of meeting people, service design professionals and government people and trying to kind of collect the stories and trying to publish those things together in a form of book which we are all working together. So that has made one of my current work. Awesome. So you've clearly seen a diverse perspective of how service design is being used, applied within. I'm going to generalize in the Asian context. And you see the success stories, you probably see the challenges. And that's the thing that's I guess interesting to explore because you've seen the Northern Europe perspective from service design and you see right now what's happening in Asia. Maybe we can try to explore what are the moments and areas where the quote unquote Northern Europe approach breaks down or where you see the limitations of adopting the widespread, the documented service design approach in a different culture. So again, a pretty broad question but I'm sure you have some examples where you see service design the way it's documented in the popular books and the popular literature. How is it and where is it breaking down in Asia? Maybe not breaking down but the way how it is adopted and understood in Asian countries. So, but disclaimer, I'm not aiming to generalize my observations from those cases and stories that are collected but I'm just kind of sharing the observations and phenomena that I observed. So I don't think the cases that I'm sharing will be any stereotypical case. It's anecdotal, right? And probably, well, often in these conversations we use the things that have more contrast to sort of paint the picture and I'm sure that there are definitely there are always more nuances but let's highlight maybe some of the more extreme examples just to paint the picture here. Okay, so the keywords are two things. The service design in Asian context, perhaps in Korea and Singapore that I have the closest interaction with. Service design is understood as a qualified process and a package of methods. And service design, the most, the biggest application area of service design is services, service offerings, you know? So yeah, the contrast is, so in South Korea and in Singapore how service design was adopted were, it was initiated by the big organizations and big companies like DBS in Singapore and also the large government organizations, the ministries in Singapore and the ministries and the Korea Institute of Design Promotion in Korea. And because it was adopted by the management, it was quite top-down. And what I kind of commonly observed in the way they adopted the services and was, so the top management, they have some resource in the beginning and they engage always this word, we know the services and consequences like engine, rework, ideal to bring them, invite them over and organize some training in the workshops and the project for knowledge transfer. So that's how they do. And because it was top-down kind of transfer of services and knowledge, it was the form of adopting services and was always with the process because they need this qualified process and standardize the process on the map because that's effective for the management penetrate that practice and the knowledge within the organizations. So yeah, that's a quite understandable, right? It's effective and it's from the organization. They need a really the tool framework to communicate this new approach. But the side effect is because it was communicated into a the set of processes and methods, people believe that's the all-about-services side. So in the projects, in Korea, maybe I will share this example. In Korea, there is the government initiative called on citizen participatory platform. It's under the government ideology called or paradigm called GOV 3.0, you know? So they wanted to invite the citizens to solve their own kind of social day-to-day problems. And they facilitated this project-based kind of problem-solving platform and service design was the key method they kind of populated as a shared method to solve social problems. So they partnered service designers and the citizens and the government officers and they gave all this handbook of service design. So here is the process that you need to follow. And here is the set of methods you need to take and do.  I think it's a really great, inspiring example. And it actually, the whole project actually awarded IF Service Design Golden Award because it was a great initiative, you know? The agenda was great. But again, the side effect was so people started believe, okay, if we follow this double-dialogue process and if we conducted customer journey mapping, if we developed personnel, it's a service design project. We did a service design, it's a service design. So they didn't really care to really delve into the actual mindsets, the actual services and capabilities or the system level contribution that service design can make were not really looked. So that's one kind of way of adopting service design in Asian context from the top down. Mm-hmm, okay. So what I'm hearing and I see this happening, I think in a broader context as well, but it's sort of the recipe approach to service design, the cookbook approach to service design. Here are your ingredients, your tools and methods, your journey maps and personas. Here is the process. If you follow this, then you'll have a delicious meal, right? That's sort of the analogy that I'm hearing you share. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, you're correct. It's, yeah, so I don't think it's necessarily bad, bad, bad. It's effective, you know, it's effective for penetrating, like, make people known, but if the real capabilities and the real contribution areas are left behind, they haven't really utilized the full potential of a service design. That's kind of the sad part. I have some ideas, but I'm curious to hear from you. Like what did you see was missing or like what, how did there are challenges and projects? Again, I don't know if this is the right word, but suffer, like something apparently wasn't, there weren't you using the full potential of service design. Why wasn't like? Okay, so for example, okay, if we, I don't have a really concrete example in my mind at the moment, but I said in the project that I was working on Finland, the more than rare times the key deliverable itself is the creation of the stakeholder network, the creation or a clarification of the new collaborative network. So those like stakeholder mapping and also the kind of our annotation or the findings on their mindset change or the way they perceive each stakeholder, that is, that was quite an outcome. But in the context of Singapore and the Korea, again, I think I'm generalizing a bit, but I'm, they value applied project. So as a service design project, there should be always the end, like the design, the things that need to be taken and applied instead of the sort of fundamental value corporation network, you know? So I am sure indoor service design project, those people might have, those people, for example, in that citizen participate platform, those people have met different stakeholders and kind of, they really try to organize, there must be really significant situated work that they did try to build rapport and try to get their buy-in and try to build trust. But those are all kind of, you know, the trust building among stakeholders and all the new relationships among different stakeholders were kind of not really articulated and left behind. But here are our ideas. This is customer journey map. So this is how it can be implemented. But all of those are beautiful, significant work, it's really the work for trust building or network building having kind of really left behind. I think that's really the contribution or the role the service design can play that UX design and interaction design cannot do. And this is, again, I'm really curious if you feel that this is unique to Asia, but it feels like the by-products of service design which aren't the by-products, they are actually the main deliverable and these are the trust, credibility, relationships, new networks rather than the actual deliverables, as we know. Does this have to do with a lack of design maturity, a lack of understanding of design in general? Does this have to do with culture? What is your take on this? Yeah, definitely design maturity and design maturity has to do with the organizational culture and perhaps the social national culture. So the Asian countries, like those some of the countries that are mentioned, I think the understanding of service, understanding of design is still creating things, creating physical or visitor things. So there should be something, you know? So it's the where to prioritize as the main deliverable and by-product, you know? So in Asian context, those designed things, the visitor, these things or the new customer journeys are always the, it's under the spotlight, you know? Whereas those collaborative network and new relationships that enable those new designed things are kind of in the background. You know, it's not really perceived as a, the legitimate outcomes of design project, whereas in Europe, they have this maturity to understand, okay, this is actually very hard to achieve, you know, the collaborative network, negotiation, facilitation of the collaboration, that's really hard to achieve. And that's what design can actually make happen. So the maturity makes a difference. Do you feel that this is unique to Asia or that Asia is more prone to this than, I don't know, what you've experienced in Europe? Yeah, I think it's not really unique to Asia. Well, within Asia, there are many countries and within countries, there are many organizations and the cities, the same for Europe, you know? So I don't want to really, you know, make this dichotomy between Asia, Europe or Western and Eastern, but those things are really observed like based on my experiences and I sometimes get to feel jealous when I kind of encounter those very system level services and projects from UK, like all this healthcare service network project or in the sweet and no way, like why this kind of similar project cannot be really happening in Singapore and the Korea, we don't have enough maturity, we don't have enough resource or patience to make that happen or we don't have expertise to make that happen. I think it's good to also recognize that the successful projects or the systemic projects, the examples of service design still in Europe and even in America are a handful and we are getting better, but I get the opportunity to speak to a lot of practitioners both here on the show and outside of the show and it's not a struggle, I think, for many of us to actually get to that higher level of design maturity so maybe, I don't know, it's not all that great. There are a handful of leaders and icons and companies that we can sort of get inspiration from but a lot of us are still trying to catch up. Yeah, yeah, do you feel that way? Yeah. I know for a fact that that's the case. Again, all the practitioners, yeah. Yeah, actually, we have some conversations between the services and professionals and researchers. Okay, then what would be the future of service design and kind of trends of service design research nowadays is really the system level. Those that the service design research and traditional things is really promoting systemic level service design or institutional level service design or organization assimilation through service design. So there are, we have a lot of theories, frameworks and so on, but if we want to find the actual empirical cases around the world, empirical successful cases, it's actually not easy to find, not just in Asia. So how can you make that theory happen? So it was a big question. I think a lot of practitioners are still trying to get their organizations from maturity level one to maturity level two. And everybody is in the same journey. I'm curious from your perspective. So we know that some companies are adopting initially service design as a recipe. I think everybody starts out that way. What does this mean for us as professionals? Do we need to change our language? Do we need to change our tools? Do we need to change anything? Is it like, it's just the way it is. It's a process and it just takes time. How do you think about this? Yes, yeah, that's a great, great questions. And I'm still exploding. So I don't really have the clear answer to that. But we've been discussing with also like the other service designers who share similar thoughts. Maybe we should not talk about service design through the double-diamond process or the methods. But even now there's really methodologies combined with the double-diamond process. But we just let employees who are in that kind of training program or let service designers just talk about like story tell what they did and what are their really the actions and what are their findings and what are their kind of really steady work and effort. So we need to really make that sort of a venues for them to really talk about those, the stories and narratives. Yeah, that's one thing. And also another kind of the attempt that I kind of was doing was because of all this process and the method-oriented service design training or interchangeably design-based training in the context of service organizations like government or healthcare. So those people who come to those training actually have different maturity, but individually also they have different maturity and different perceptions and different understanding of the design, the role of design, the role of user involvement and the ability for framing and so on and so on. So with one of the ministries that I would collaborate with several years ago, what we tried was to calibrate the sort of different understandings or to calibrate their employees misalignment in understandings of design contributions and design roles. We developed a design capability mapping tool in the context of government officers. We kind of categorized the items into four categories, like how they understand users, how they understand design practices, how they understand implementation, how they experience organization and our structure and resources. So we kind of listed questions and kind of gave a kind of multiple choice options and let those, the government officers to map their understanding how they perceive the role of users and how they perceive the contribution areas or the capability of design in that tool before they participate in any design thinking or subdesigning training programs so that they know what they know and they don't know what they know. So that sort of built a kind of learning objectives and they also kind of share and recognize their different understandings about the design roles before joining the sort of process-based service design training programs. Yeah, and I can imagine, I'm curious if the tool is available somewhere, but I can imagine that it helps the design professional to understand with what kind of audience they're dealing and sort of what expectations they have and if you need to realign and adjust some of these expectations. Is this tool available somewhere or is it an internal tool? It will be available. We were publishing it and we are also like preparing it to be a creative common open source thing. Nice. Yeah. We just didn't put it out there yet. The other thing that I couldn't agree more with you and I think I recorded a video about this over four years ago that the DOML diamond has served its purpose and it's really time to move on for us. What the DOML diamond does is it sets the expectation of a very process and a linear oriented way of working. It's very efficiency oriented and it's very, it gives the notion that you can sort of manage this process. And I don't think, and we know as a community that that's not the case. I think the language we need, we need to move into a language around that's more derived from theater. We have many other more useful metaphors that can serve as a way better way of setting expectations around what service design is. One thing it's not, it's not a linear process that the DOML diamond has sort of been misused to show it's much better. Like in, again, playing a sports game together, creating a theater piece together. That's much more of the dynamic and I think we are not adopting and sharing that kind of language around service design enough. We need to let's stop the DOML diamond. There are use cases for it but if you're thinking about using the DOML diamond, you can probably use something that's much better to explain your story. How do you feel about this? I love that idea, which is all theatrical metaphors and theatrical terms. And like, cause I also teach subsidence to the students, instead of showing, okay, this is like basically the process that you are going to follow over the semester, but how can maybe we can introduce that sort of improvisation and kind of really like the reciprocal kind of, kind of, you know, give and take kind of relationship. That is an awesome idea. Yeah, again, I think we have much better stories and there have been some episodes here on the show which help you to set a much better expectation around what this actually is. And again, it's not a linear process. There is linearity. There's definitely progression in design but it's not the progression that we tend to advocate with the double diamond. And yeah, we do everybody a big favor if we move away from that language and adopt other examples. I'm curious, what do you feel needs to happen next? So we know that this is the case. We know that there are better ways of explaining sharing service design. What are you working on right now and what do you feel that needs to happen as to evolve our practice, to evolve our community from where we are today? So as an immediate thing that I'm working on is really make those non-Western stories visible and create a service design research and a professional network in the context of Asia. Because the services have been really growing for the past decade a lot and there are really networks in the communities but they are all kind of Western based. So can we maybe form equivalent communities and networks so that those communities from different parts of the world can learn from each other? So that really making establishing the channels and platforms for those Asian countries to be heard. So that's the immediate thing that I'm trying to work on by collaborating with the different actors here. And if somebody is listening to our conversation right now and they are from Asia, is there already something that they can join that they can participate in? How far are you with setting up these channels and these networks? Yeah, not really. Yeah, I still see the long way to go. The first thing is, so like as a kind of small starting point I've been organizing kind of symposium with the some professors and professionals and researchers from Asian countries. We actually had one in February and we will be publishing those discussions in different formats. And that's one. And I think that in Taiwan, actually they are actually doing very interesting things as well. And I think they are also trying to build a service design professional network in the context of Asia. So I think that's kind of cooking, something cooking there. And they are also doing the podcasts by inviting service design designers and service design professionals and researchers in Asian countries to talk about their work. But those kind of movements are observed, but it's still kind of scattered. So maybe I just kind of followed the thought flow, but we need funding. We need a resource. One of the success factors for European networks to be successful and to grow is they have this big EU and the funding that can support like five year long project that allow researchers to really delve into the fundamentals about this service design as a knowledge, service design as a discipline. And they have this really the then that it kind of builds a platform for services and researchers to really look at the system, look at the future scenario and so on. But due to this economic context of Asian countries, the funding mechanism, I think they are not really ready to support such a project, you know? So yeah, those kind of funding, I hope we can have so that. And I guess what we quote unquote in Europe already have is like an established educational and literature base for service design. You can actually point to research, point to articles, like it's established, it's scientifically researched and that helps to leverage its credibility to sort of demonstrate it to organizations and what I'm hearing you say that's not yet the case for Asia. People are doing service design, but there isn't much literature you can point to and say, here are the examples we have in our region that show that service design is being practiced, how it's being practiced, what the outcomes are and you still sort of need to borrow all the examples that aren't maybe relevant or applicable to your region. Yes, yes, yeah, very right to say so. Yeah, and especially in Europe, the network is very strong, the cross-country network because of the EU perhaps, you know? But we don't have such a, we have this Asia Pacific kind of, you know, but it's not really like this as the European EU research network. So how can you promote that cross-country network? But that's, I think, the Asian service design scholars and researchers and professionals really need to maybe work on.  Not maybe not known, but maybe not the kind of knowledge, but maybe attitude. I think I was kind of receptive to the way the government organization, like my counterparts, my clients, my collaborators from the government, I kind of try to adapt my deliverables in the way they desired. I wanted to make them happy. But I've been thinking, I've been reflecting, maybe I should have really pushed. Because if I really wanted to promote the system level contribution of the service design, as an educator, as a service design scholar, maybe I should be the one who really needed to introduce these possible cases and you can actually do something different than what you have asked for me. I should have more like courageous and pushing. So if I do the project again with those government organizations, I will be more challenging, courageous. Yeah, good that you sort of address this because that's sort of so hard when you weren't starting out before if somebody's listening in there just starting out, like setting the bar and sort of being demanding from your clients to live up to a certain standard because you know that eventually they will benefit from it, but you have to challenge them. Like if you're not entirely certain about your own skills and expertise, then it's really hard to do because you first need those five years to sort of do the projects fail and then realize, okay, I really know what I'm doing and what I'm saying and now I can challenge the clients. Like that's the ultimate secret. Don't wait five years. Like already trust what you know and don't compromise on quality. Live up to the standards and yeah, you don't have to wait five years. Already be, I don't know if demanding is the right word but yeah, courageous and challenge your clients rather than catering to their short term needs. That's right, yeah, that's right. What do you hope is the one thing somebody will take away from our conversation? If they think back about our conversation one year from now, what is the one thing you hope that they will at least remember? Can I say two things? Sure, of course. Okay, so as we have discussed, so we haven't really utilized full potential of a service design, which can actually transform the collaborative network, transform the business structure. So we need to really try to build more and more cases that can really showcase the full potential of a service design. That way service design can actually make bigger contribution and can have more longevity instead of just sitting behind or becoming like a fad at one point of history. So that's one thing. I actually forgot the second thing. Ah, okay. So Asian audience, the services and researchers, service and professionals, let's collaborate, you know? Let's build network. Let's share our cases and the failure cases and success cases. I know, I don't mean that I am leading this. I know that there are a lot of people out there like under our service design chapter, service design network chapters in different Asian countries, but I think we can also really, you know, gel our efforts together and make into something big. Yeah. Let's collaborate. I think that's a great call to action. Just, again, if somebody is already listening from Asia to this, I host a network for service design professionals who are in-house. We have a community which is focused on sort of the Asia Pacific time zone. There are already many professionals in there we meet on a regular basis. So now mostly people from Australia and Europe they're right now, but I would love it if we get some people from Singapore, some people from, again, all the regions. So that network is already here. If you're in-house service design professional and you'd like to have conversations with other in-house service design professionals, join the circle. I'll make sure that the link is there, but I would also encourage everybody to reach out to you and see what other options there are to and become part of a bigger community, I guess. That sounds fantastic. Yes, we need to promote it more and more. Yes. Awesome. JJ, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your perspective a bit and sharing sort of the stories, the challenges and the ambitions that lie ahead. I really hope to have more guests from Asia on the show in the coming weeks, months and years ahead. So I'll definitely do my best to create a stage to share those stories as well. Once again, thank you for coming on and sharing your story. Thank you for having me today. Thank you so much. I hope that this conversation got your mind going about where, how and why we all need to be working hard to make service design better fit the culture around us, whether that's the culture of your country or that of your company. I want to give a huge thanks to JJ for coming on the show and sharing her perspective with us. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider clicking that like button. It lets me know whether or not we're on the right track by addressing topics like this. My name is Mark Fontijn and I want to thank you for spending a small part of your day with me. It was an absolute pleasure and honor. Please keep making a positive impact and I'll catch you very soon in the next video.


You need a financial advisor with the freedom to focus on your specific needs. Whatever your goals, Reed Potter can create a game plan tailored to you. Call Reed at 432-0777 at Pikeville, Kentucky to learn more. Grace Community Kitchen will be hosting their biannual indoor yard sale November 1st through the 3rd. The yard sale will feature clothing and household items, and everything will be priced to sell. We started a few years ago just having a yard sale in an attempt to help race funds for our meals through the Grace Community Kitchen. And we would just do one yard sale, and then we've been blessed to have people give us donations. And so now it's kind of become a routine for us every year that we have two indoor yard sales. The yard sale will be held from 9 to 3 p.m. each day, and all proceeds will go towards funding hot meals provided by Grace Community Kitchen. Well, we serve meals on Mondays and Thursdays, and we have just seen the cost of the meals increase. We've seen the number of meals that are requested increase, and it is just becoming more and more difficult. And so we are always looking for ways to help fund those meals, whether it's through community partnerships, donations, and the yard sales are one of the ways that helps fund meals. Everything that we are able to sell is a donation, so 100% of the profits go back into the Grace Community Kitchen. For more information, go to Grace Community Kitchen on Facebook. Reporting from Mountain Top News, I'm Breanna Robinson.