So, so the overall idea here is to kind of look at differently next kind of components and then try to see whether we should start looking at the possibility of, you know, improving these components using hardware counters. What I intend to cover in the next few slides is some of the experiments I have been doing with hardware counters on our PC platforms. I do have a slides later giving some details about what these counters are and how they look. The primary motive is to also kind of share with the rest of the community what I have learned and then we look at, you know, whether we should start making these changes in Linux kernel so that some of these areas can accommodate hardware counters, right? So these are three top-level areas where I ended up spending my time looking at whether they can work with hardware counters, multi-generational LRU, transparent huge page and page promotion. With multi-generation LRU, I did post an RFC which kind of go into high-level details of how I envisioned multi-generational LRU can start using hardware counters. But at a high level, the idea is to kind of like, as you know, MGLRU consists of multiple generations so the idea is can we use hardware counters for classifying pages into the right generation, right? Another primary challenge with hardware counters or access count is, you know, most of these architectures give ability to kind of know how many access have happened to a page. But with respect to multi-generational LRU, what we are really interested is in the relative hotness of a page so that we can place a page in the right generation, right? It's not about absolute hotness, it is about how hot it is compared to other pages in the system. One of the big challenge I ran into while kind of looking at multi-generation LRU is how do I estimate the relative hotness of a page using hardware counters or relative access count of a page using hardware counters, right? There are a few challenges with that. Quite a lot of these things can be improved using better approximation algorithms but then I ended up looking at, so for each LRU WEC under MMSC Deeper Numanode, you know, there are a set of pages you kind of look at the pages in the youngest generation or the oldest generation and try to kind of come up with an estimation of what is the maximum hotness or what is the maximum access count and what is the minimum access count. It's an approximation because we can't go through all the pages in the LRU WEC because that's going to be really, really heavy. Once you get the approximation of the maximum access and the minimum access count, then whenever you look at a page, you look at this max and the min access count and using that classify the page that you are interested in into the right generation, right? So if you have four generation, the max and the min can be classified into four groups and then a page of access count y get placed into one of these four groups or four generations, right? We could also use different mechanisms like it came in clustering, which kind of takes a sample of access count and then kind of creates four groups or four clusters. And then later whenever you get a page, you can classify them into one of these clusters. There are effects of using complex, more compute intensive work in these classifications. I have a slide that goes into what I learned by trying simple classification and complex classification like came in clustering. So once, and another interesting details about MGLRU is it kind of allows you a sorting phase during reclaim. It's called sort folios where right now MGLRU look at the generation stored in page flags to kind of move the pages across generations. These page flag generation values are populated during like while we are looking for the folio reference of a page, we look around nearby PTEs, get the PFNs, hotness and that is used to play, convert it to a generation and we store that in the folio flags. Similarly for architectures like x86 and which actually supports hardware access reference bits, there is a mechanism where we kind of walk through all the MMM in MMCG and then we scan the pages and things like that. There also we kind of look at the page reference bit and then kind of classify the pages into the youngest generation and put the youngest generation details in the page flags. So these generation details stored in page flags are used to move them into different generations during the sorting phase. So what I ended up doing with respect to my changes instead of using page flags generation, use the access counter based classification that I did to place them in the right generation. There are a few advantage of doing that. One is you can completely skip the page table walk because we are not looking at reference bit for kind of like doing the generation walk. If you don't need to do page table look around during our map walks that kind of cut the cost of some of the art table walk and essentially you could also save the, if you really say that I don't want to save generations in page flags, we could save that bit and then avoid saving generations in page flags. There are like approximately six bits that we use in page flags which can be saved by doing this. Having said that, I also want to look at some of the numbers. I just want to make sure that we understand that optimizing reclaim is really, really tricky because it's heavily optimized and different workloads have different behaviors. So one of the things I try to do is I kind of ran a test with MongoDB as you could see when I used hardware counters, the performance dropped. Even though the graph shows kind of like a large drop, it's like a 1.3% as a drop. There is extensive reclaim as can be seen by the next slides. This is the working set default. So there is heavy working set default count. Even though working set default count decreased by around minus 2.8%, the performance didn't impact much. This is a RAM disk swap that I'm using for doing my experiment. When I went to NVMe, the reduction in the working set default, which says that we are able to kind of classify the pages much better looking at the hardware access counts because we are not defaulting pages similar to looking at the reference bit. So when I use NVMe swap disk, the cost of making the wrong decision is higher and hence I see some improvements in performance, but you could always debate that that's the noise range, it's 0.2% MongoDB. So this is the refold. I have a 7% reduction in refolds with NVMe swap disk. I also did another experiments with the memcash disk. So one of the few things I actually ended up doing, as I said, I was using hardware counters in the sorting phase. We could also completely kill the folio reference lookup, looking at the page table reference bit completely. So it's kind of like the complete R map we can avoid. If I try to do that, the performance improves really good, like there's a 6% improvements in memcash D, but then there are some interesting observations that I had. So this is the advanced classification, the red box, the advanced classification, which is the mid-class string. I also have a fling graph which shows why the performance dropped. So here is the interesting thing that happened, right? When I completely removed the folio reference, R map worked completely and completely depend on the hardware reference count. The refolds actually increased dramatically, right? I am yet to find out why. The performance also improved dramatically, but the refolds also increased dramatically. My thinking at this point, I haven't actually collected traces to confirm this. It's probably because of the initial stages where the hotness is not good enough to classify the page, and hence because we are looking only at the hotness. We consider all the pages as reclaimable, and we reclaim them, and hence, there is a large increase in the refold rate. That's my theory at this point, but I really don't know. Because otherwise, the performance improvement is not explained, right? We have a 6% improvement if I completely remove our map work. So that's on the MGLRU side, as my observation is that optimizing multi-generational LRU is kind of really, really tricky because of the cost involved in estimating the relative hotness. This is the flame graph kind of view of multi-generational LRU. As you could see, there is folio reference, the RMAP work, right? There's the big chunk here, and then there is page out, which is the big chunk there, right? Isolate folios is not that big a chunk, but then folio reference is one of the big chunks that we have, right? So if I use the hardware counters, right? As you could see, this bot is where we are reading hardware counters, so it do come in the cost. We are spending some time reading the hardware counters. But then we are also able to reduce the number of pages in the oldest generation, and folio reference kind of reduced, right? We are map work kind of reduced much because we don't have a lot of hot pages in the oldest generation now because sorting is kind of classifying the pages better. But then I am also now doing some extra work holding LRUVAC log. So you could see this LRUVAC log starts appearing, right? Increased contention on LRUVAC. And that's one of the challenge with doing this in MGLRU because if you try to do too much, the locking contention keep going up. So as I said, if I try to do an advanced classification where it's a recursive function that came in clustering, my lock contention actually shoots up. The R map work completely disappeared because I'm not using reference bit at all. So the R map were completely gone. So ideally this should have improved a lot of performance, but then since I'm doing like a lot of work within holding the LRUVAC, the lock contention kind of increased. So MGLRU and using hardware counters, these are some of the learnings I have. We should probably look at whether this is really worth doing or not, right? Quickly going to the other area where I want to kind of look at. This is one area where I actually found a lot of benefit. So one of the big challenge with transparent huge page is the utilization of transparent huge page. We have single bit in the page table reference, page table entry which track the access to the 2MP. But there can be access scenarios where not the entire 2MP is accessed in a unique fashion, right? There can be a lot of hidden cold pages instead of huge page which is hiding as sub pages, right? So the logic here is that when we are doing our map walk, we look at the page table reference, we find that the 2MP page is hot. We look at the utilization matrix using hardware counters and decide whether the folio need to be kind of like active, kept or reclaimed, right? I mean, there are three options, whether it should be reclaimed, whether it should be put back as active or whether it should be kept so that it given one more chance in the same oldest generation. We could actually use hardware counters for making this decision, right? The hardware counters can actually count, the access count at configurable page size, at least on PPC64 architecture. So we could actually count the access to 64K chunks within a 2MP range, right? So we could find the sparseness of the access using algorithms like Gini index, which is kind of generally used to find sparseness of a range of numbers. And that can be used to kind of find out how effectively these pages are classified. So this picture kind of gives it a high level of what I'm talking about. So there are a lot of cold pages and very few hot pages and there's a single reference bit. So whenever that two hot pages is kept for all practical purpose, the current kernel will consider the entire 2MP pages like a utilized hot page. So the test that it's really hard to find a workload that hit this specific condition, at least I haven't been able to replicate it in a MongoDB or a Memcache, the kind of a workload. So we ended up doing like a microbenchmark. So I had like one, few, few, few process doing writing every page of a 2MP kind of like huge page and a few process writing only four pages of like every 2MP page. So the example that the config I have is like, every page it is touching an 8GB kind of thing and like every few pages, like the four pages in a 2MP it's touching less frequently, right? I mean, it's not touching all the one but then the right few pages threat is running really, really fast, right? Because right every page is going to touch every 64K page and in my case every 64K page by the time it comes to touch the next huge page it takes some time and I also don't run it that fast. I have like some wait time in between, right? So this is really good number actually found. Actually if you could see I spent some time trying to explain this chart it's slightly overloaded. So the top X axis is the time taken we're using hardware counters as you could see the entire test is able to finish in 70 seconds whereas the bottom X axis is the time it takes to finish the same test when hardware counters are not used. So it takes around 800 seconds to finish the test, right? So as you could see like the swap out kind of like the reason why there is no swap out is that using hardware counters we are able to identify the hidden cold pages and split those huge pages, right? And once we split those huge pages they were never swapped back in because they're really cold we are not accessing them back in and hence the application doesn't trash or doesn't reclaim at all, right? So there's no additional swapping at all once we are able to identify these cold pages and send the cold pages to swap. So that's essentially what this page is trying to convey and as you could see when we are not using the red line is not huge page like in a not using hardware counters and the green line is using hardware counters. So when we are not using hardware counters as you could see there is 19 GB of usage because if you go previously you could see that the total memory like 26 GB of it's still consuming the 26 GB, 19 GB of huge pages and when I use hardware counters on the hardware page present in the system is 7 GB which kind of maps to the 8 GB of right every page, right? So it essentially says that using hardware counters we are able to detect hidden cold pages really, really well and we are able to complete the micro benchmark in about 70 seconds compared to 800 to 700 seconds without using hardware counters. So I do believe that this is one area we could definitely find use with hardware counters, right? I also want to spend some time on page promotion I think we also have some slides covering the same thing. So one of the big challenge with page promotion is the cost of NumaFalls and I also believe that one of the interesting things that page promotion needs to also do is to kind of relate you a hotness of a page as compared to the DRAM node where I am moving, right? So essentially what we want to do for page promotion is pick the pages from the youngest generation in like a slow memory, right? That's the youngest generation there because that's the hottest page there and compare that hotness with the hotness of the oldest generation where I am moving, right? There's no point in moving a hot page to a DRAM node wherein that movement costs a replacement if a hot page there, right? So we need a relative comparison between hotness of a page from one Numa node to hotness of a page in another Numa node and LREwek doesn't help you achieve that, right? LREwek kind of gives you the current reference bit based one kind of gives you relative hotness of pages within an LREwek, right? So using hardware counters, we can definitely compare the access count of hottest page in a slow memory node and the hotness of like the oldest generation page in a DRAM node and only if the page in the slow memory node is hotter than the other one, we kind of do the promotion, right? So unfortunately, I have not been able to do a test on this because I don't have like a hardware which kind of simulate this, the kind of like the device memory model that we have kind of used DRAM as the backend and I was kind of waiting to get a low latency memory device which kind of helped me evaluate the performance implication of that. But coding this is pretty simple. We could actually offload it to kind of like a, like KSwapD, we could look at a KpromoteD which can kind of do this periodically comparing the hotness between different nodes, right? I will come back to this if there's time. I just want to kind of, because during the mailing list discussion, there are a few other things that got discussed. Can DEMON be one kind of use case where all these hardware counters could be integrated and can we kind of avoid the rest of the kernel getting polluted with all these different dynamics, right? Different architectures is going to have different hardware counter mechanism, right? One of the things I actually kind of, we actually implemented a kind of like a DEMON operations. It's kind of like HCA-PA-DDR and I have some evaluation given later. But one of the big challenge I found with the DEMON is the ability to evaluate how good it is, right?  It's not easy to evaluate DEMON because there's a lot of configuration that DEMON needs to have. What I ended up doing though is with the changes that I did. So essentially this is PA-DDR, DEMON module, where instead of using reference, we are using hardware counters, very simple, right? Instead of using reference, we straight away switched to hardware counters and did some evaluation. So I actually used the DDoop test of DEMON and there's a lot of variants once you use hardware counters, probably because of sampling and other details. But then overall it kind of showed for this DDoop test, right? The memory usage is probably the criteria which we want to kind of... The idea here is proactively claim where I can kind of reduce the amount of memory used by DDoop, making sure that the time to execute doesn't change. So we are able to kind of reduce the memory usage by around 12% switching to hardware counters. So even the DEMON may not be able to use it for like a MemcashD or a generic workload, probably there are ways we can use that. But I think there is also a value of looking at hardware counters being exploited by DEMON operations as shown by this example, right? Since proactively claim was also kind of thing that I looked at while looking at DDoop, I also want to kind of throw the idea that is there a value in exposing this to user space like, you know, out of memory DEMON? You know, do we want to have counters there so that these user space application can make intelligent decisions of access counts, right? That's mostly what I had. You know, this is the last one, legal statement. This is my view and not of IBM view. So if there is interest, I could spend some time on the hardware counters. Otherwise, if there are any questions, I can take that. And I think there is one other slide from you if you want to go through, right? You want to speak? Sure, thanks. I just want to take a few moments to expand one aspect from basically what Anish just mentioned about the promotion. So basically, promotion is one of the key challenges for the memory theory, right? So as we can see right now, we have actually multiple ways to help us identify hard page on those kind of far memory nodes. So for example, the page fault and we have a traditional access-based scanning and then there's a new access counters. We also have the performance monitoring modules, the PEPs and the AMD IBS and so on. So I think that could be also a new hardware feature coming down the line, right? So next slide. Can you move to next? Thank you. So the question is that, I mean, how can we basically have a unified framework to help us to do the promotion, right? So right now, I think the current infrastructure is the auto-mua that really just use the page fault, but can we actually have a more general framework to leverage all these kind of hardware abilities? So there's some kind of thought I'm putting over here. So the idea is that we can have abstracting layer that basically can harvest the hard page from those kind of far memory nodes and this engine can make use of different back-ends and it can provide the list of hard pages so that we can have a dedicated demo to do this kind of promotion, same as the case of D, I think which Anish also just mentioned, right? So the benefit of that could be we can do this outside of the synchronous page for the handler. So next slide. Yeah, so we actually done some kind of early implementation with this, but only at the user space because we want to leverage the PAPS sampling which is much easier to do to program from user space. And at the same time also use the access-based scanning to both kind of signals for us to identify the hard pages. So the way we do that, we basically stream all these kind of page access events to user space, so BPF and the buffers, which is not very cheap. Then we basically, the user space can make a decision, identify hard page and then basically tell kernel which page to migrate. So this actually works pretty well. We have some more details on this implementation in our paper in S-plus this year. So I think the hardware, to be clear, the hardware we use here is Intel Optane as a lower tier memory. And then we basically move page back and forth between that one and the DRAM. So the question in the next slide, the question is that, I mean, can we bring this kind of idea to kernel so that we can have a more performance than the another implementation but benefited by other people as well? So I mean, some idea that we could extend the auto-dumers for that. But I think one concern here is that the hardware counters like the access counters, right? So they are not really like organized around VMAs. They are more like a PFN-based. So I think auto-dumers may not be a best fit for that. So I think initially extend multi-gen to use the access counters. So I think that might be a good idea there. In particular, we can leverage the generation, especially the youngest generations under their timestamp to help us to rank the hard page there, right? Then we can have this kind of background kernel stretch for doing this kind of asynchronous promotions and apply, even apply certain policies applied to that specific to a particular job. Yeah. So that's it for some source I have here to regarding this hardware-based promotion. So I wonder whether only feedback on this or not? Yeah, I think overall, I think what we are looking for is, you know, should we start getting these changes into kernel somewhere or other? Or is it too early or like, you know, or should it all be done in like, German or should it be completely user space or, you know? One of the observations, the last time we talked about hardware-assisted was that the user space might already be wanting to use those counters itself and that we didn't want to, people upgrade their kernel all of a sudden they can't run their analysis tools anymore because the kernels consumed all the performance counters. Like, what do you think about that? Yeah, but that's true if it is performance. That's true if it is performance counters, but that's not true if there is dedicated counters like we have in PPC64, right? I mean, if there is interest, I can walk through the counter. I mean, it's a region where there is 64-bit counter for HPFN and the count value get increased based on the hotness and get decreased based on time. Okay, so this is really for a new class of counters that really aren't already, there's no perf legacy for these counters. Exactly, it's a memory region. You can index into that region based on PFN like, so every PFN get a 64-bit, you can go there and look at the access count. The count decay is based on time, so if you are not touching the page for some time, the count value decreases. So it's completely dependent on PMU and other things. And I believe that that's one nice way we should probably encourage other hardware vendors to also start looking at the possibility of having such counters because as I showed in the TSP utilization, there's definitely value in doing this in TSP utilization and I do believe that page promotion also will find really good results with counters like that. Because on way slide, it had PEBS and other things, so I guess what we're saying is like, Correct, correct, yeah. Maybe we do the dedicated stuff and figure out the PEBS things and other, like perf complex stuff as a separate discussion. Yeah, I think I want to clarify that. We use the PEBS because that's the only thing available. Perhaps actually not really ideal for page promotions, but it does help on the current hardware, particularly because as you know that the Intel, at least at that time, we can actually filter the access to only these opt-in devices so that it gives us basically very targeted access that we can monitor. But if there are better counters like this IBM access counter and it's all on hardware and they're not really shared with other use cases, I think that will be even better. So we definitely looking for this kind of new capability for other vendors. Hello. Yeah, so thank you very much for Anil's share of the hardware counter-based daemon operations set, implementation and testing research. I think that such a hardware counter-based new daemon operations set could be a very good idea and actually that's what I wanted to implement on my own when I get a time slot. I just, I always wanted to do that, but I just didn't have a time slot for doing that. So I think that could be very good approach for daemon and also looking forward for the RFC patch set or patch set for that. Sure, I can start sending them across. I can start sending them across. But one big challenge with daemon is the ability to kind of use daemon for generic workload like Memcache D or like MongoDB, right?  I think promotion could be, I mean, one of the thing I was looking at is can daemon do promotion, right? I mean, can daemon be the vehicle through which we implement the promotion, right? Yeah, that's also a very important part. And we also have some ideas for that, including some feedback-based auto-tuning and also having some auto-tuning of the monitoring parameters and the schemes parameters and adding some daemon's action for promotion and demotion of the memory. And also there are some ongoing ideas. I think we can continue the discussion after this conference, yeah. But by default, having the hardware counter-based operation set could be anyway very useful for even though we don't have the good default parameters or auto-tuning like features, I think that could anyway benefit some profiling purpose use of daemon, I think. At what point does something that's kind of proven out in the daemon space move over to like the generic MM? Like, does that question make sense? Because I'm kind of daemon ignorant, but is this something, something we'd want everybody to use all the time versus like having to say, oh no, you need the special daemon setup and you need, and your workload, you need these settings. Like, at what point do things become daemon plugins versus like kind of default kernel behavior? Is that a consideration? Yeah, so that's also to be discussed, but yeah, for going to that stage, I think we would need some more discussion about the default config and default behaviors and whether to enable daemon by default or not. But at this point, I think we can start from the... What Dan is also kind of getting to is like, if you kind of use daemon for like relative hotness detection and things like that, it's kind of building an infrastructure which is parallel to our LRU, right? It's kind of like, it's not making use of LRU. Like for example, that the proactive reclaim what Joannas did, it's like the memcg reclaim, right? It's kind of using the memclru for reclaiming. It's just hinting that go and reclaim some 2MV so that it can do a better working set estimate. What's not really true with daemon because of the fact that it does reclaim independent of the position of the page within an LRU because it has its own way of estimating things. So my thing is, that's a confusion I had, right? That's supposed to be if I'm doing page promotion, should it be a K promote D or should it be a daemon plugin, right? I mean, which way we should go? Yeah, I feel like regarding integration, a sticking point here is that now we have the multi-gen which is also used the page hardware counters to basically sort the page into different LRUs. So daemon essentially is doing kind of similar thing in the same space, right? So if you kind of merge them, I think this is essentially the sound problem we need to solve between these two. Okay, I think that's, I think we're out of time for this session. Oh, I've got one more question. Thanks for the floor. Okay, next, yeah, next player is coming up. Thank you.


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The first ever roadcaster. We're about to upgrade it. And now the opening ceremony. Oh, that's nice. That looks real good. What about when we turn it on? And now we have all the user interface. And this is where it would be needed to plug in some microphones. It's pretty much a quick start, no stuffing around setup. It's pretty foolproof. What does it look like with audio? Let's plug a mic in. We officially have a mic inputted in here. Now let's see how that's going to work. And as you can see, the levels are moving because the mic is picking up my voice. That's it. Now the cool thing about this roadcaster, it doesn't come with a physical instruction manual. They put a QR code on here to grab the instruction manual. This is now 2022. Roads where it's at. Hope you enjoyed that quick setup guide. If you have any more questions then just visit the road website and they'll be able to help you out. Good, thanks.


Sophia Martinsh is our sixth presenter with a presentation titled Leveraging Mobile Network's Energy Efficiency through Mathematical Modeling. Imagine that you and I are walking down the street when all of the sudden you decide to phone a friend. The conversation between you and the friend at the other end of the line may seem like a pretty ordinary thing but that couldn't be further away from the truth. What most of us don't realize is that underlying this conversation as a shame reaction that ultimately leads to energy consumption in infrastructure that intermediates this conversation. This infrastructure is part of what is known as a 4G or 5G mobile network and these networks account for as much as 3% of the world's total energy consumption. And yet we don't know exactly which factors influence the energy consumption of these networks. So let's go back to our early example for a moment. When you call a friend your phone covers speech into bits and then covers those bits in some form of radio wave. That radio wave is captured by antennas and then covered back into bits in specialized computers before moving into the internet in a process that is known as signal processing. It is precisely that infrastructure where specialized computers and antennas coexist. There is the ultimate culprit for the high energy demands of mobile networks today. Moving forward what we envision is a future where common computers much like the ones that we have at home will replace specialized computers that we use today for signal processing but in doing so we risk increasing the energy demands of mobile networks even further. So what can we do to lower these energy costs? Well in order to optimize something we need to understand it first. That is why I have focused my PhD in the search for an energy model. A model that describes which factors influence energy consumption of mobile network infrastructure. One of these factors is noise. Noise in the channel between your phone and the antennas coming from computing radio waves. It is much like me talking to you here in this quietness versus in the middle of an orchestra. It will certainly take you much more energy and ethics to the cover I'm saying if I was surrounded by musical instruments right? Well the same principle also applies to that hypothetical model that I'm searching for. We know that noise is an important parameter in that model but it is not enough to get an accurate estimation of energy consumption and that is because mobile networks are large and highly complex systems that are influenced by a multitude of different factors. And yet I believe it is worth searching for this energy model in hopes that one day we may be able to use it to improve the energy efficiency of mobile networks and thus contribute to a more sustainable planet. Thank you.


This Celtics Talk podcast is presented by 24autogroup.com, 11 locations across New England. What's up, everybody? Welcome into the off day edition of the Celtics Talk podcast. A rare two day break. It feels like something's just had a big long all-star break. We have two days off, but looking ahead to March, there is not a lot of breaks in the calendar, so we'll take it. We'll take this opportunity to downshift earlier this week. I had a chance to catch up with Xavier Tillman, talk about adjusting to the new Celtics organization, and being patient with waiting for his opportunity to get out there and show what he can do on the court. Right before that, Abby got a chance to sit down with Drew Holiday and talk about defense and Derek White and a bunch of fun stuff. So we're bringing you both those interviews today as part of the pod. Also, we'll get into a little newsy stuff through holidays and the headlines today for reportedly being invited to join the US national team when they get ready for Harris over the summer and be part of that group, a select group of 12 players, but Drew has the history of winning gold with that group, and I know that they've wanted him there for a while. So let's get right into our chats. Let's start with my talk with Xavier Tillman. All right, Dave, I got a bunch of off-the-court stuff, but I want to start on the court. I noticed you working on the three-point shot after practice. It feels like every big man in the league eventually has to gravitate out there. Like, how much of a focus is that for you? Do you see yourself? I think about Al, not a big three-point shooter running first came into the league. Can you see it growing as part of your game? Absolutely. I mean, that's just the way the league is trending. This past summer, I spent a lot of time on my threes. I mean, I was getting up thousands and thousands of shots, especially from movement threes, stationary threes this summer. So that's where the league is trending.  So tell me about it. Most guys get traded mid-season. It's like you're scrambling to get here, get thrown into it. You were able to kind of absorb a little bit. What did you learn during that process and what did you take away from getting to watch it first? Yeah, I kind of started to learn the culture, started to learn the guys and how they like to operate, what they're most comfortable doing. I learned how our offense likes to flow and how we like to get into our actions and the players we like to go through. Defensively, I'm learning a lot of, you know, key concepts that the coaching staff has and how we like to guard and stuff like that. Yeah, it was this first couple weeks here has been really good for me to just be able to learn and kind of sit back and understand, you know, what we're trying to do, what it takes to do what we're trying to do and how to do it each and every day. Other guys that have pulled you aside, grabbed you, said like, let me help you, let me put you on the right path here. What's up online? I mean, everybody's been great.  Tell me what that's like, Al in particular. I was talking to Brad Stevens right off the trade deadline. I said, defensively, you guys are very similar to me, right? Like below the rim guys, but like the way you can defend the versatility, how much can you learn from being around Al and especially watching what he does now at his age? The thing that I personally, self-esteem, want to learn from Al is longevity, what it takes to be in this league that long. You know, a big thing that he always talks about is being in the weight room and keeping and making sure that you're also eating the right foods and that way you're not putting extra weight on your joints in your knees and stuff like that. But just learning from him, you know, I want to play for a long time as well. So that's me, selfishly.  So did that come naturally for you? Are you normally a vocal guy? Oh, I'm normally a vocal guy for sure. Okay, so tell me the personal side of it. You're traded mid-season, you've got a family, three kids? Three kids, yeah. What's that like?  Like, how does that work? Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy for sure. I had planned my wife's birthday on trade deadline. We had a birthday, her day was the day we got traded the day before. We had a whole birthday thing planned out. We were still able to do it, but it was like, man, like, this is crazy. And the kids, you know, they're adjusting, they finally got here yesterday, so I'm excited. Now it's just trying to get them comfortable with the people and getting them comfortable with school and getting comfortable with their routines and stuff like that. So they're all settled in, got my dog here too, so that's good.  An English bulldog. Okay. So what was that like? I mean, that's got to be jarring, too, looking at your Instagram and saw all your family.  It was awful. It was awful. Because I'm, like I said, I'm a real family man.  So just to check in on them. So for me, you know, not just being there with them, like, I could see that my son was feeling it and my daughters were feeling it and my wife is feeling it like, dang, like, it's just hard not to be together. And it was hard for me to like, fully be present here because I was thinking about them and how they're doing. So now that they're here, it feels really good. Now that I know, okay, that they're good. Now it's just about getting them adjusted. And like I said, finding their routines and their rhythm and the people that they want to hang around stuff. Do your kids know the opportunity here with how good this team is and championship all that? Absolutely not. My kids are seven, four and almost two. They just know that he plays basketball. That's it. They don't know about the championship or nothing like that. Do you get them some Celtic swag? Yeah, my daughter, as soon as they start printing the 26 jersey, my oldest daughter started rocking the 26 jersey for sure. Tell me about picking a jersey number because it's difficult here. Very. How did you pick it and any significance with that? Very, very difficult first and foremost. And I got the list. I was like, ew, these numbers, available numbers are not basketball numbers. But my dad's birthday is March 26. So it makes him and then my grandma's birthday is also on the 26 as well. Again, it's hard to find numbers that line up with people with things that are significant to people. So at least you got there. Almost like once in this video. Everyone who has the first name that starts with the letter X is invariably called X-man or whatever. Do you have any other nicknames or anything? What do you call you? X. It really is X. That's it. And your Twitter handle is on Instagram, I believe, is rookie dunker? Twitter rookie dunker, yeah. Where did that come from? Me and my boy, his name is Christian Rodriguez. He was my point guard from like fifth grade up until 10th grade. So when Twitter came out about eighth, ninth, not, we got on Twitter at least around eighth, ninth grade. His was a cis king and I had just started dunking. So mine, mine was rookie dunker. So people are like, yo, you know you can change that. I'm like, it's just me now. That's my story. I'm like, I'm not changing it. It threw me for a loop. I said like, I mean, now you could be experienced dunker, moderate dunker, day to day dunker. Leave me through some of these tattoos. I heard you had redemption and what do you got? This is my newest tattoo. I'm going to do my own thing. This is from the newest Spider-Man movie. It's the Spider-verse. I love it. Since I've been in the NBA, I love cards. I love playing cards. So we play cards on the planes. I got a card tattoo and also those spades. Also those spades. I got Ayanna on the side tattooed on my, on my interior. Um, I have, uh, I've got a lion here. Um, well, my family's my wife, my wife, Tamiya. Uh, Ayanna Tillman. That's my oldest daughter, Zebra Tillman, my son and Leilani Tillman. Um, love yours. J. Colesong that I really, really appreciate because it just helps me stay grounded and helps me just live in the moment and just be grateful for everything that I have versus wanting, you know, future things, just, you know. Um, where did that appreciation come from? You seem very, like, you're very down to earth. You're more grounded than I guess I would say most NBA players. Probably just my family in general. Like I, I honestly understand like they are what matters most because I feel like whenever I try to be, you know, big headed and stuff like that in basketball, always bit me in the butt. So it's like, all right, let me just be, you know, to my family and, and put that at the forefront and. All right, let's wrap up with a couple more basketball questions. What was it like going up against Jason and Jalen and the Celtic before this? Like, what was it like being on the other side? Um, every time we played against them. So first of all, my whole career, I think I played, um, eight times, nine times, uh, never beat them. Never beat them. A couple of times at home, we got close. Never beat them. Uh, what else? We would come into the, it would always be a big game too. Always a big game. And, and their fans, Boston fans travel, you know, so in Memphis, you know, we'd be half and half and it didn't make any sense to me how the Boston fans got to Memphis. Um, yeah, they're just, they're a team that, that was always winning. I felt like ever since they came into the league, like they're always in the playoffs and they're always making a deep run in the playoffs. So, um, that was always cool to see from afar. And then, you know, once I got here, I want to learn like what it takes to consistently be there. Like, what are they doing on a day to day level? And so this has been great. Last thing, I think there's four back to backs remaining. They're going to be able to rest guys at points. Like, what do they tell you about staying ready for your opportunity and like, how do you, how can you help them along the way here? Just being a professional, making sure that I'm showing up on time, you know, working out as hard as I can, making sure I'm eating the right things and, and treating my body right, getting proper rest so that I'm ready for when those opportunities come. Not necessarily the performance base, but giving myself the best, uh, chance to be successful when those opportunities come. Um, and it's pretty, um, it's pretty easy for me to do because my whole career has been like, in the rotation, out of rotation, in the rotation, out of rotation. So for me, like, it's nothing new. You jump into the card games yet? Since you got there? Yeah. It's been going good. It's been going good. I can just see you taking your new teammates money. Oh, yeah. It's been going good. It's been going good. Thank you for your time. Absolutely. All right. Good stuff there from, from Xavier waiting patiently for his opportunity. You start looking ahead on the schedule and you see those four back to backs. That's at least eight games where you're not going to have Al Horford, uh, or Kristaps Porzingis. You just started thinking what the Celtics up so big in, in the Eastern Conference. There's going to be plenty of opportunities for the Celtics to downshift guys. And I think it's just naturally going to promote opportunity for guys, whether that's Tillman or Luc Cornette, you know, maybe Nemesh Keda. He's still got games left. So we'll see just what, what the Celtics end up doing in those instances. But I do think there's going to be chances for those guys to, to show what they can do. I think Tillman's in a tough spot. I keep comparing it a little bit to Mike Muscao last year comes in. I think they're high on the player, but you know, you're kind of getting thrust into a situation that's pretty established that layoff rotation is, I would say, fairly set. Now it's not to say that he couldn't make a push to be sort of a wild card option in that instance, but Luc Cornette's been really good. Even Nemesh Keda has been good in those minutes. I think it's a longer play here with Nemesh and with Xavier, both really, in terms of what they can be and help this team further down the road. So, but I do know that part of the reason they were excited about Xavier was how well he played in the playoffs for Memphis last season, going up against Anthony Davis at times and showing some versatility. So I don't think they'll be afraid of that. He's just going to, going to win Joe's confidence. He's got to, you know, develop chemistry with the guys. And that could be tough in the 24 remaining games that are on the schedule. And it's more important probably for him to just be around and start learning these guys in case, you know, there's a bigger role in future seasons. You know, Mascala fell into the same, same sort of problem like player who had been very good in small doses outside of Boston, comes here, helps you navigate to the finish line of the season, but just didn't have a playoff role. It's easier to see if Xavier can push that issue a little harder during his time on the floor. Let's talk about Drew Holiday, the news today, coming out that he's one of the, invited to be one of the 12 guys that will comprise Team USA at the Paris Olympics. He was vital, you remember when the Bucks won a title and then they all jumped on a plane, that would have been 2019, right? Because, or 2010, the year of 21. And they end up flying out right to the Olympics, you know, take him apart of that team too. So there's some familiarity there. This is cool for the Celtics because they're going to have multiple guys like Tatum and Drew Holiday should, you know, borrow something crazy happening here. We'll be on that team. You still got Derrick White and Jalen Brown, potentially members as well. And so there was rumors even right after Drew had joined the Celtics probably back in October about their being interest from Team USA. And he kind of downplayed it, but the mix of playmaking, the mix of defense and just having been through it and having won gold, I think is really important to that team. And it was clear that Team USA values having him around. The interesting part from a Celtics perspective is that Drew is, so let's start with this, like Drew was extension eligible starting right around April 1st. And so Brad Stevens and his agent will get a chance to sit down and talk about the long term future. And you don't make a trade like that and give up what you did without being probably ready to go to the bargaining table and pay a pretty hefty sum to keep Drew Holiday deep into the future. I think the number is going to surprise some people. Remember that, Drew has an option for next season already. I think it's 37 and a half million dollars. So even if you're asking them to take a little bit of the discount on that on the front end, maybe say, okay, get rid of that last year, but now signed, want to whisper these numbers like three years, 90 million, four years, 120 million, maybe there's some options. It sounds daunting because 30 million dollars sounds like crazy number. I think salaries are going to be out of control in the NBA. And I mean, looking for the Jaylen Browns, just signed that what amounts to 58, $57 million a year deal. That's just going to be the rate.  And so I think you have to pay for established players. And you also have to, this is dual track, like you got to also sign Derek White at some point, but there's probably room for both. And then you make tougher decisions about what your overall roster looks like further down the road. Now, this gets a lot easier if you win a championship this year, because now you're just in celebration mode. And you probably want to keep that entire group together next season. If you don't win a title this year, maybe there's tougher decisions about what players you're going forward with. But I know Drew is positively impacting this team that the guy's really like what he brings both defensively and, you know, as someone who is willing to sacrifice his offensive touches, and is okay with getting everybody else involved. So I do think maybe one of the bigger storylines because of how big the Celtics are up is going to be what happens with True Holiday and do they get that deal done? Does it give him a little bit more security going into the summer where, you know, let's face it, like there is injury risk and stuff. When you go to the, go to the, go to Team USA, maybe that's alleviated if you've already worked to get that long term extension in place. And gives you the freedom to just focus on playing for your, for your national team. I was interested, our friends over at Fanatic Sportsbooks, I was checking their defensive player of the year odds. Now, it's tough. We know around here, guards don't get nearly as much credit as they probably should. Celtics have, in my mind, two great guard candidates in Derrick White and True Holiday. True right now slotted seventh at plus 15,000. Pretty long odds there. Timmy and actually Chris stops for us. I guess that our behind, here's the group they're behind. Rudy Gobert, Victor Wimba-Nyama, Bam Adebayo, Chet Holmgren, Herb Jones and Anthony Davis. So like, okay, I, you know, I think that's a fair case. I think the Celtics are going to make a push here to finish probably near the top of the league in defensive rating, depending on how they, it all plays out of the finish line. I think they got a third this week. They definitely, when they want to lock in are the best defense in the NBA because no one has the ability to guard all five spots the way they do. So maybe that's going to, you know, further to occur with the way, the same way that Jason Tatum is getting held against him, that there's so much talent on the offensive side. And his question around VP, you know, maybe everyone looks at him and goes, well, Drew doesn't have to play as much of a defensive role because he's got so much talent around him. I think we know that his versatility and his ability to guard star players has, has been key for the Celtics this season. So we'll see if he makes any movement. I do think again, Celtics finish as a top three, if they were to surge and get to the top defensive spot, you got to think a little hotter. I think the one thing that's certain and is that guys like Drew Holiday and Derek White will probably end up on the all defense team. But all these guys are going to probably get some votes along the way. So very intrigued to see exactly how that that voting comes down, who lands on that all defensive team. And yeah, Drew is going to be on there, just a matter of where he gets some votes, will he gets any votes on that defensive player of the of the year award. So all this Drew Holiday conversation shifts perfectly, Abby got a chance to sit down with him on Monday at practice, talk about what it's like to be in that backcourt with Derek White. We're going to leave you with that interview. You know the drill, go like, subscribe, check us out on the YouTube page. We're back with you on the post game pod on Friday night. We'll be over at the Garden 4 of Mavericks and Luca coming to town, Golden State on Sunday. So keep it locked right here on Celtics Talk. And we leave you now with Abby catching up with Drew Holiday. All right, Drew, I pulled you over here to talk about, I'm going to say it's got to be your favorite spot on the court, the corner there. You know the season you're shooting 63% from the corner. That's what people keep on telling me. Number one in the NBA. It's not bad. That's the key to that. Shooting them. If you want to be completely honest, maybe even looking at my shot chart for my career, but I don't really, during like other seasons, I don't really take corner threes. It's usually like above the break and beyond. So yeah, this is double. This season, 11% of your shots have come from three. So this is right. And this is new for me for so many corner threes, but I guess I'm pretty good at it. Have you always felt good from the corner? Why didn't you take them earlier in your career? Just because, you know, sometimes as a point guard, like you're doing everything from the top, you're nationating from the top, you kind of rarely get to the corner at times, or as much as I do. So, but yeah, the corner is comfortable, you know, you get there, especially with guys that I'm playing with. I get wide open shots. So I guess I can't do anything but make them. The crazy thing is, though, it doesn't matter which corner you're in. You hit from basically the same at the same rate. I guess corner is corner. I guess it doesn't matter. To you. Has anything changed in your shot? I just think that I'm taking them and shooting them with confidence. I know that obviously shooting, there can be lows and shooting, especially during the season. But again, I get so many good looks from the corner that they're just falling right now. And I understand with this team, that's where those shots are coming from. But it's, I mean, arguably the best, the most efficient shot basketball right now. Yeah, there's so many weapons on our team that you have to deal with. And I guess them giving up the best shot in the game right now. To me, I'm not mad at that. Have you found, and we know that you have a bag, but have you found where you can get to your bag with this team in this offense? How much more comfortable are you in that? Yeah, I definitely think I found a balance. I know a lot of times it's, a lot of times about a balance of getting guys open, screening, offensive rebounding. But then there are times where I might have a weaker defender on me and I could take advantage of that. If that's in the post or coming out of the corner or sometimes in transition. But really just finding that balance and attacking. Eight of your top scoring games with the Celtics have come since December 20th. Has there been something that just kind of clicked? I think it's just time. Sometimes when you get time with the teammates, with the rotation, getting more comfortable in your role and what you're supposed to do. I mean just that comfortability sets in. So I guess since December I've been feeling more comfortable and gradually I can keep on doing it. At the other end, how are you feeling about the stock exchange nickname for you and D-Way? It's funny. That's funny. No, I like that one. Are you into nicknames? Oh yeah, why not? I mean, I got cookies and cream with JV and I think this might be the first time I have a nickname. But I think between me and D-Way, it's a good one.  The way that he defends sometimes, I'm like, I'm amazed. And I feel like on defense, maybe sometimes I've done some crazy stuff, but D-Way is amazing on defense. He says the same thing about you. I asked him the other night, are there moments for you two to just look at each other and you're like, no, no more. No one is going.  I look straight at him because that's usually what D-Way does. He usually chases somebody down from coming over a screen or something like that and blocks a shot. And I did and I was like, see, I'm turning into you, bro. I can do it too. Has he kind of reignited that fire for you? I mean, I know it's always been there, but is it different playing with a guy like him? Yeah, I think that he gets me to do different things in terms of like again, coming off a screen and trying to block a shot from right off the screen or chasing somebody down and trying to block it at the rim. Things like that, I usually leave to the big. Obviously, we have like KP, we have Nemi, we have Al, we got Luke, but you know what, I could block shots at the rim too. Maybe I'm a rim protector. I think you are. I know D-White is, damn it. D for sure. So I think those are different challenges that I kind of find in the game and try to continue to do. Has this defense reached its peak? I don't think so. I think there's a lot more that we can possibly implement. And maybe you'll see it here soon. I think there's, again, we just have so many different talents and the variety of our team is kind of interchangeable. If it's too big, if it's we go small, if it's a boxing one or something crazy like that. So it would be, yeah, it's exciting to play with this team. But you're the guy who's really, I mean, typically in a lot of NBA defenses, it's that back line that's communicating that, but in this defense, that's you. Yeah. How much are you enjoying that? I've enjoyed it a lot. It's been different for me because again, I'm usually the one guard on the ball. I have to listen to the big or the guys behind me, but at first it was new and it was weird for me to kind of like just be yelling at people and telling them what to do. But now I know why my wife likes it so much. I was gonna say, I personally enjoy that. I mean, I never, I never knew. Embrace that. Yeah, I understand why. Just yelling at people. Finally, before I let you go, what, the Benny the Bull ping pong thing, how did that happen? And was that while we were in Chicago? It was in Chicago. Yeah. There's a little ping pong table set up, you know, a little mini ping pong table.   Those were not accidents. Good. Yeah. Accidental accidents. Did he said it? Did he challenge you? How did that come about? Yeah, it was right before, it was right after like we came out for the announcements or whatever, like they called everybody's name. I don't know why, like I caught his eye or maybe he caught mine or something, but he was like, all right, come on. I think it set the tone for the game. He hit it back. Yeah, he hit it back. I don't remember it. Okay. I don't remember. I kind of, after I hit him, I kind of like ran off. I'm done here. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, I think I set the tone for the game. So there is a ping pong table upstairs, right? Yeah. Yeah. Do you play? I did more when I, when I first got here. One of our trainers in KP, I think they play quite a bit. Really? Who's the best? I do, I do everything. I saw the top spin though in the return. You saw it? I do a little bit of it. I don't know. Drew, thank you for the time.


This hour, we are happy to introduce Lynn Barre, aka Lucena Wisdomseeker, who will be presenting Brain Fitness for Boomers in Virtual Worlds, The Wave of the Future. Lucena Wisdomseeker has been a university instructor in literature, a college counselor for at-risk students, a psychotherapist in private practice, and in semi-retirement a life coach. She is co-leader of the Mentor Coach Alliance for Positive Psychology. She and her husband, a musicologist, blog about the connection between music and well-being at musicandhappiness.com and our active in the American Society on Aging. Welcome, Lucena Wisdomseeker. Thank you. Can you all hear me now? Just so you know, you can hear me. Thank you. Thank you. So, I know that there are people besides those in the auditorium who are watching this, listening to us, so I'm speaking to you as well. I'll end just a moment. So, let me know if you can hear me. I'll try to speak so that slowly suit in here. Is anybody in this audience age 55 or older? Say yes and chat if you are. Whatever age you are. Are you interested in staying as mentally and physically strong as you can for as long as you can? If you are, say yes and chat. Good. I'd like to have a little bit of dialogue going on here. Well, I came here today because that's what I'm interested in, too. It's why I came into virtual worlds and why I've built the whole Bring Health Fairgrounds as I'll show you. I'll also be building a similar place at OpenSim soon. This is work I do outworld in real life as well. In virtuality or outside, I do my work with the support of other people because it's much more fun for me to do it that way and I meet the most interesting people. A lot of psychological research shows it's also extremely valuable for your health and happiness to have strong social connections and positive relationships. That's what I want to focus on here. There are some simple ingredients that can really nourish your brain when you put them together and feast on them regularly. One of them is community. How does community develop? Let's try a little experiment here. Look around wherever you are right now, whether in this auditorium or in some other space in world. Who do you see around you? Find someone you don't know and wave to them in an IM with a smile or use chat to do it if you don't know how to IM. So take a minute to just do that wave to somebody in this room or the room you're in. Don't worry about getting a wave back yourself right now. Just focus on giving. It could be just one other person and even more if you want. Now notice how you feel in this unfamiliar and rather impersonal kind of space we're in. Has anything changed for you because you reached out and waved to somebody? Just put something in chat if it has. Can you all still hear me okay? Just let me know please so you can hear. Good. Great. So I just want to pay attention to what happens when you do various kinds of things as we go along. The positive psychologist Dr. Barbara Fredrickson has a theory about relationships that she describes in her book Love 2.0, how our supreme emotion affects the positive relations with others of feedback that will occur to this type of support. This is another situation that tends to lead to greater creativity and problem solving in life. More ability to build. I draw this kind of research from psychology and other fields related to brain health to make applications to daily life and that includes virtual life. So everything I show you today and there's a lot I don't have time to show you, you need to come and see them for yourself, is part of a bigger picture. That is I'm interested in creating environments in virtual worlds that are user friendly, easy to move around in and fun to share with others.  As an aside, I use the term whole brain health because research shows that the entire brain needs to be nourished holistically through attention to the body, the mind and the spirit. This is only the beginning. I want you to go from the fairgrounds to other virtual destinations that can also contribute to bringing you a higher quality of life. Once you know what to look for, you have a lot of choices when you understand more about brain fitness. Finally, I think virtual worlds can be especially appealing and valuable to the big population of people age 55 and older. This is where research into healthy aging and brain fitness can join together to develop really useful kinds of virtual lifelong living programs. Lifelong learning is what I meant, but lifelong living sounds good too. Looking at information about how to make this call better. So we may be stopping the call in a moment. I guess Beth will tell me what to do. That's fine. We can stop and start up the audio. So I will pause for a moment here and give the time for the next slide to rest. Hello. Hello. Lynn, can you hear me? All right. I'm going to continue. I'm hoping that this will be a little bit better. Lynn, are you able to hear me on Skype? Now, I just wanted to say here that's good to know. Oh, I'd like to be heard. Okay. So tomorrow at 4pm, MVT, I'm holding a networking party on the fairgrounds if you're interested in brainstorming about lifelong learning. The SLURL is in the conference schedule for you. Now to put flesh on these bare bones, I'd like to give you a brief tour of the fairgrounds on second life. As you see, this is one of the destination hubs. Everybody okay with this now? If I go forward? Okay. We're really proud of our hubs. This is where you first land whenever you visit us. The button in the center of each hub pops you up to the second level and back down to the ground. The paths lead you to the activity areas where you can actually exercise your body, mind, and spirit. As I said, paying attention to all three parts reaps the greatest dividends for brain health. There's an info sign on each arch that will take you to a web page with more information, including videos and audio clips. An example of user-friendly approach we take. Okay. This is the information area. Wow. I take bad pictures trying to get everything in. I need to use a wide-angle lens, but then everything looks weird. So right next to the hub, you can get some basic information about us. If you're interested in non-technical materials based on brain research, the gift bibliography box gives you a lots of sources. The other big gift box holds information about positive psychology, which is my field. It gives you an online link to a free strengths quiz, which you can take in several languages, by the way. How do you get around the fairgrounds? I'm going to now try to use the pointer here. There's one way, our hobby horses. You could res one to ride it, and it will disappear when you get off. Cool.  Throughout the fairgrounds, we offer experiences more than straight information, teaching through doing. Everything here works better when you do it in company of others, although most activities can be done alone as well. Here's an example. We call it the brainy maze. Why brainy? Because it makes you work for your reward. See the stop sign? Would you pay attention to it or go right in? Which would you do? The goal is to find the books in the maze that hold separate lines of a poem. Not every book you see does. Once you find all the lines, the treasure chest explains what you need to do with them to get your reward. In this case, Linden's. Every month, just before fair day, the poem changes, so there's always a new challenge to try. And new challenges are one key to continued mental alertness. Fair day, by the way, comes once each month on a Saturday or Sunday. From noon to 6 p.m. M.V.T. That's like a big party with special events that showcase other programs on the grid. Very exciting. This September 28th, we're featuring the Shanghai sisters fire show, complete with fire juggling. Did you know that juggling is a perfect exercise because it stimulates body, mind, and spirit? One more thing in this image, and I don't know if my clicker is working. Can you see a red arrow any place as I click? Here's another way to add to your income. The golden scroll just inside the entrance to the maze asks you to leave a piece of advice for other visitors in a seven-word sentence. Here's one example someone left recently. Brain mantra, use it or lose it. How about adding your own words of wisdom in the chat right now? Can you think of seven words of advice you would give other people? This is a great way to give to others here in the room. And you can do it while I try to res the next slide. So if you think of words of wisdom, just stick them into the chat. That would be terrific. And here's another kind of maze we host. A monster 3D maze made and maintained by someone called almost their inventor. You know, even in virtual worlds, people have a strong ground plane bias. This kind of maze forces you to think in different spatial patterns. It's also great for memory training as you try to remember if you've already run through this or that room. Mases can be more fun and more valuable to you if you walk them with others. You can argue in a friendly way, of course, about how the poem should be put back together in the brainy maze. Here you can help each other find the maze exit, reducing your stress level if you're not good and I am not good at this at finding your way out. The maze also changes each month before Faraday to bring you a brand new challenge. Remember, use it or lose it. Now this is what we call the Grove of Wisdom. I've already mentioned the role positive psychology plays in fostering brain health. Remember the gift box in the information area? Here is where you will bring the results of the strengths quiz you took. A basic mantra of positive psychology is that other people matter. This means that over and over studies show the strong links between healthy relationships and a high quality of life. The strengths that seem to be most helpful for people are gratitude, the ability to love and be loved, vitality, hope and curiosity. So these can be worth cultivating even if they're not your top natural strengths. I chose the virtual world name of wisdom seeker for a reason. My ongoing quest is to find the many kinds of wisdom wherever they exist and however they are practiced and bring them to the fairgrounds. Wisdom is the only strength that seems to have no downside. You can't overuse it. Remember, I don't claim to have wisdom. I just claim to seek it. The owl is a symbol of wisdom in many cultures. This is the owl over here if you can see him.  This one seems to be kind of doubtful about me and my wisdom. That's maybe because my top strength is curiosity, which means that I never get bored. But when I overuse it, I can get into trouble. I ask too many questions. Do you identify most with any of the strengths you see under wisdom here? Creativity, curiosity, judgment, which means open-mindedness, love of learning and perspective. If one of those you think is your one of your top strengths, would you just toss it into chat? I'm just curious to see if there are any commonalities among the group. We're already on the upper level of the fairground, so let's take a look at the center of the arts for all being in the art gallery. The center of the arts is here. Love of learning. That's one of my top ones too. Interesting. Great, great creativity. Love of learning. There's a lot of new research on how the arts can revitalize your spirit and mind and body too. Listening to music and dancing in groups happens all the time in virtual worlds. People gather for art gallery openings and poetry readings and readers and writers groups. Why do you think these are so popular? There's a real reason why. People sort of instinctively know what really will nourish them. So of course we have music on the fairgrounds, pianos all over the place that you can actually play, and even a harp in the meditation garden. We also like to support programs that go further and help you appreciate different arts in new ways. It's mind-growing to listen and look with others and to see and hear things from a knowledgeable guide's perspective. I'm going to throw out a provocative idea here. This can be especially important to do, to try one of these things if you are not drawn to them usually. It's worthwhile to try stretching a bit for your brain's sake. The same is true by the way if you're not usually drawn to things like math or science or building or languages. If you try them you're expanding your boundaries by seeking out new opportunities to learn and your neurons in your brain are actually increasing as a result of this kind of effort. Isn't that great? And that happens all the way up into old, old age. As long as we're learning we keep growing our brains. This is inside the center of the Arts for All Being. It's one of the rooms. We've also set up different kinds of spaces in the center for small groups to watch videos and problem self. Here's a whiteboard for group interaction for example. Discussion groups are really good for stimulating the mind. The trick is to join at least one group that requires new ways of thinking or feeling outside the boxes we all tend to stay in. The center is a Moroccan villa. The choice of furnishings is deliberate. You can lie all over the place. Why recreate a classroom? Thinking often happens best in a relaxing atmosphere. Here's our library and this is a place for book discussions or just finding something to read. I collect original poetry and stories from virtual writers. Send me your writings. Rosie is my Irish setter. She's a great companion, especially since I can't have pets now out world. You'll notice other animals around too, like Tabby in the room across the way. Animals are wonderful help for stress reduction, out world and in. And reducing unnecessary stress is crucial for brain health. Here's where you can dance all night just like Cinderella. Almost everything on the fairgrounds is open to nature, the great healer. We've tried to make this place pleasant to walk because so much research finds that walking is the best exercise for the brain, let alone the body, that we can do on a daily basis. And walking and talking with others even virtually has benefits. Instead of sitting at a meeting, try walking together. See what's different for you when you do that. Have you ever tried this in virtual worlds? Walking instead of sitting when you're having a meeting. I wanted to show you where we're going to have the networking party tomorrow. So the first level dance floor. And yes, there are sofas to sit on. So you don't have to stand around. You can use the SLURL to come and visit even if you don't want to talk or party, but I hope you'll come and meet me. That would be great. The slideshow as you see here are up at all times. One gives you an overview of the grounds. The other shows you our gala opening day event, which we had just this past April. We hosted about 20 teachers, group leaders and performers, and had over 100 visitors that day. So it was really wonderful. And I couldn't resist showing you our dragon because I do love animals, even dragons. She's a lovely dragon. Her name is John Quill. She eats bling, so be careful when you approach her. If I'm around when visitors come, I'm always happy to offer a dragon ride around the Sim.  It's your imagination. We have lots of places for talk and meditation that people are welcome to use. One of the most important discoveries of the past decade or so is the scientific value of meditation and spiritual practice like yoga, tai chi, qigong and prayer. So we've provided many places for activities like this on the fairgrounds. There's a yoga garden where you can indulge your fantasies of doing intermediate poses. If you're like me and you're still in the beginner category, try yoga with a friend.  Sit quietly in this garden, which has a fountain in it with a lovely sound, or one of the others scattered around the grounds. You can talk in these places confidentially because sound won't travel beyond those parcels. We have lots of activities to exercise your body virtually. You can take bike rides around the Sim with others or swim with others using the floaty at the swimming hole. Five people can swim at a time. This group was dancing up a storm recently to the rhythm of the drum beats. Recent studies show real benefits from drumming for many different groups of people outworld. You could even get your own drum at home and join in as you watch yourself. We had trouble getting this group to stop. As you know, if you attend drumming groups in world, drums resonate in the bone, even in virtuality. These drummers and dancers, most of whom are over 55, they said I could tell you that, really got into the groove. Just try this for a moment now. Start a drum beat yourself with a hand or foot. Notice what happens in your body when you do it.  Did you know that people who automatically jiggle their legs use a lot more calories than people who don't? When I learned that, I stopped telling my husband to stop jiggling. Gentle hair and a virtual ability in second life recently gave a superb presentation on exercises you can do at your desk. The audience responded enthusiastically to the idea and talked about starting a weekly exercise group because otherwise the idea never leads to action. This is another reason for the fairgrounds. If people can find ways to come together easily, they're more likely to make a real commitment and stick to it. And doing brain health activities consistently is what makes them really effective. I wanted to show you a little bit about the... Good, jiggling. Sometimes when we're doing music programs, I have people actually tapping things and bringing little instruments with them where they're sitting and just using them because you have all different feel when you're doing something like that. Yeah, up and down. Going up and down as you work is great too, sitting down standing up. I have a timer that I set for every 20 minutes, so I remember to move and do an exercise every 20 minutes. And here's just a little trick. I also hold a soft pillow between my knees because that activates the inner thigh muscles, which are very important for standing up, let alone swimsuits. I wanted to show you some pictures of our free energy class, which we host regularly. It's a really cutting-edge class. We want to offer classes that are challenging and fun and useful to people. So if you'd like to teach anything, please tell me. I have space for you. The teacher of this class, Tuya Heinz, brilliantly teaches somewhat experienced builders how to create innovative animated objects in second life without using scripts. People think it can't be done, but she learned this from somebody and is carrying it forward. She uses a revolutionary new concept called free energy. Here a group is about to get on a rail car made from free energy. We had a lot of fun trying it out that day. And another thing we're doing is collaborating on building a Rube-Goldberg contraption. Can anybody explain here what a Rube-Goldberg contraption is? Let's see if I can type it in. Does anybody remember? See here? This is another view of the contraption. If you look up there, I don't know if you can see it. I don't know if you can see an arrow. I suppose you could call it that. There is a donkey sitting up there. And the idea is to get the donkey to fall into the water down below. That's right. People are giving examples of what it is and different descriptions of it. So there's the donkey up on the board on a wheel. There's a water down below. And over here is a ball that, once you start it rolling, is supposed to go down and trigger something, which triggers something, which triggers something and tips the donkey into the water. It's not very efficient, but it's a lot of fun. It's great fun because we do it together. And even if you don't know how to edit or to build, and I'm very poor at those things, you can stand around and watch. And that's a lot of fun, I find too. You can see that from the class chat. We do this class in text so that students can keep a record and kind of keep. Thank you. Thank you, Beth. That's great. And here Tia made a carousel, which is in process. It sometimes blows up when she tries to start it. But recently, we were all able to get on it and move around.  And we'll go up and down. They go up and down, and the thing goes around. And we were all on it. I kind of flew off, but I flew around with everybody else and came back to my seat.  Once you get the idea of how to do this, how to build this way, the sky and your imagination are really the limit. And creativity builds resilience. And it helps you avoid boredom, both very good. So this is my last slide, which is an invitation to come to the Whole Brain Health Fairground for the monthly fair days. If you join our group, I will send you a notice of the fair days. And this is our logo, inspire, innovate, interact, change. I envision the whole brain health fairgrounds as one strand and a whole network of places in virtual worlds that naturally work together toward the same goals of well-being through lifelong learning, especially for people as they get older. Lifelong learning is a big concept. The more creatively it's approached, the more it incorporates what research is finding about ways we humans can help ourselves live better. The more valuable it will become for boomers and the generations that follow them. I hope you'll come to the networking party here tomorrow at 4 to talk together and experience the fairgrounds. I also invite anyone who would like to show off their program on a fair day to contact me. I try to feature a small variety of different programs each time to introduce new audiences to what virtual worlds can offer already. One aspect of your program should be that it will encourage participants to regularly practice activities that stimulate the body, mind, and spirit within the whole brain health framework I've shown you today. I wanted to give you all a gift here. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out how to do it. But if you come to the whole brain health fairgrounds on Second Life, you can pick it up by the landing point. It will say, Avakind Gifts. It contains a link to a fun machinima of the fairgrounds that Francisco Kulhaven helped me make. He and other friends from Aris Apps and Keen Academy and OpenSim Educational Project are helping me turn the fairgrounds into a state-of-art changing activity site. The keyword here is changing. Brain health is promoted through new and different challenges. We try to reflect this powerfully on the fairgrounds. Our goal is your well-being over your whole life. And that now is the end and I'm very happy to have any questions or comments or any any response of any kind. Any ideas you have, anything that you found has helped you in this way. I'm very happy to hear about it. I love that. Thank you. I appreciate your participation. It was very nice to have you pop in with some thoughts. That was a terrific presentation and I will just throw this in and please, anybody, if you have any questions, you can also ask her directly in chat. As a reminder to our audience, you can see what's coming up on the conference schedule as well as I said, which is going to be quite different. There are a variety of social activities this afternoon because I have such wonderful people who work with who have great ideas and get my concept and try to help me develop it, which is one of the great things about virtual worlds I'm finding. And thank you again to our speakers and to this wonderful audience for putting up with a few little technical difficulties in the beginning. Okay, thank you.