Good afternoon and welcome to Think Tech Hawaii. My name is James McKay. I'm the co-host for Hawaii Food and Farmers Program Again, Justin and Matt have not come back. So I'm here again to sit in and host and today We're having a bit more of an uplifting chat last week. We've gotten so much grumpy email about the Hoa Peerley or Honolulu As we should be calling it we learned from Mark last week that we decided we focus on a bit more positive this week Which is a growing phenomena around the world and it's a difficult world phenomena, but Easy is to grow stuff especially in Hawaii So it's a very cool concept that has its roots pun intended into permaculture But it's expanded through a non-profit partner the surfwriter foundation. So joining me today in the studio We have Jennifer Rodwell who's an educator at a couple of public private public public public Charter yeah, I've never understood the difference between all them but in Hawaii and Honolulu and also with permavits Hawaii and On her left is Raphael Benstrom who is the Oahu chapter coordinator for the separate foundation So welcome guys. Thank you for coming down to the studio today and today We're discussing something called surf blitz and surf blitz is a program that was started nearly a couple years ago with Sort of the roots had started in the permaculture foundation. So, you know, everyone's like perma blitz Surf blitz. What is that? And obviously you have different answers to it because they actually are serving different needs So we'll start with Raphael. So the surf blitz that's coming up. We have one on Saturday this weekend What is the surf blitz? How does it start? Why do people care? Sure? Thanks for having us James The surf blitz is a program that originated For our end in surf riders ends with a program that we have called ocean friendly gardens And that's a national program for the surf fighter foundation that is working to stop stormwater runoff at its source So it's a pollution control mechanism and what we do is we build gardens and people's backyards and Try and teach them the mechanisms by which you can trap and reuse water rather than having a runoff and Pollute our oceans actually here in Hawaii So what ends up happening stormwater is actually one of the biggest pollutants to the ocean and you can imagine that when it rains We've paved over so much of our landscape that it accumulates pollutants whether that's gas or fertilizers or pesticides or Animal waste whatever it is all of those things go directly into our storm drains when it rains and our storm drains Don't have any filtration. They don't have any way of stopping that before it enters the ocean So if we can slow that flow of water and build gardens and yards where people can retain the water on site That's the idea of an ocean friendly garden. All right, cool And that concept started in California right with the one of the surf rider chapters in California. I believe so It might have been 2013 nearly even I think that we first saw the San Diego chapter look into that kind of concept And I think it's a really cool way of using what would actually be wastewater in your own property to harness that and grow Preferably food is kind of the ideal thing because this is the series on Food and farmers. So we're actually essentially turning the homeowner or renter into a garden or a farmer for their own Consumption or even if they get really good, I'll give it away, which would be a good segue to the perma blitz concept So we have a perma blitz. I think we understand now what a surf blitz is perma blitz gen What's what's that all about again? Thanks for having me It fits beautifully actually into what Ralph was talking about with regards to Using water because perma blitz was founded started in Australia and then founded here on on a wahoo by Matt Lynch And it's based on perma culture principles of which one of the main principles of permaculture is looking at things as a system How does everything connect with each other? So we want to use that water that's coming from the sky and somehow redirected into our gardens rather than going to the ocean So that's one piece of the perma culture aspect of perma blitz perma blitz is a reciprocal exchange network where people in the community can come together on one day and Help someone else in the community totally transform their their backyard into an edible landscape for example using permaculture principles and ethics and Once they've done three blitzes They can then have their own space blitzed and so through this network over time we can essentially be transforming all of a wahoo's gardens in this Grass roots kind of a manner in which everyone is getting together and helping each other out To transform their yards into edible landscapes and people producing their own food Reusing the water that's on their aina and preventing it from running into the ocean as a stormwater runoff We just need the edible grass though, right? You can't just have the Typical landscaping grass. Yeah, and that's a very different concept than what we talked about last week Which was with the housing communities going up there. There isn't a focus on food production In fact, it's kind of the opposite right and you you see it a lot in the newer bigger houses Popping up everywhere. They sort of concrete concreting everything rather than taking advantage of the space that might be used for food production So I think that's an interesting mix where that we the surfwriter of motivation slightly different But the net end result is that we have a lot more local healthy food and for me personally So I actually met Jen in our permaculture design course where we actually become certified to create some of these plans I don't know. I'm feeling a little rusty right now, but it's all experience, right? but um that to me personally was just a transformational experience in my Initiation to Hawaii living in Hawaii. I did that quite early on from moving here and for me It's still, you know some of my best friends are people that I've met through that organization and similarly through the surfwriter foundation I started cleaning beaches even before I was a certified permaculture design specialist So it's kind of to me It's great to see these two independent lifestyle partnerships that I work kind of had one foot in each camp come together You know way I would have never expected so it's kind of cool So I want to throw up a little image of one of the ones that we've done. I believe this was just a It's a surplus probably the say 10th one. There's been sort of 12 done now on Oahu We might get to the image but basically it's just a group of people that I think the biggest thing to me is that just the cool People you meet in these events just awesome people and it's not like you're just there to fulfill the mission and go You're you're actually going there to meet people that are cool. So this is Tia She's like one of the best plant experts. I've ever met and that's what she does. She's a masters plant student She's too busy to come on the show right now But you know she's there and there's a bunch of these people that are just really smart people that know how to grow a Bunch of stuff and this is always in the event We have the food to like thank the volunteers for coming down. So it's a potluck We try to avoid single use plastic and in the the surfwriter Foundation want to avoid single use plastics as much as possible that you know all the Containers you get reused so you work hard you learn a lot, but then you eat really well And I think that's and so as a result that's what it's kind of like a really healthy drug. You have people coming back It's just a great community. So is that kind of your experience Jenna and I get involved You're addicted more than anyone. I think I know and there's no counsel. I know that can get you off this So it's true. I would I have to admit I am addicted to your surf blitz and permablitz I just love getting my hands dirty I love working hard and seeing change happen in one day Such quick remarkable change can happen when I work in my own backyard of my own It takes me a year to get that work done and to see that happen in a day and people having so much fun Where they're doing it. There's always a lot of joking a lot of play With a lot of really good solid leadership. Yeah, so on the screen. That's happy to go on so this Actually, you might have been away for this one way. We did I'm there The plant head we got rough at the back. So that's the the logo of the the permablitz community or permaculture Hawaii Is their website? So we'll probably have that maybe hopefully a screen that Go go under the bottom at the end, but it'll be on the website later Or you can just Google permaculture Hawaii and you'll find it eventually. So that there's always One of these events going on at some point either going on or being planned And I think that's the key thing is These things even though when you come as a volunteer you kind of walk in and you just sort of go and Go in the flow and people tell you what to do, but it looks very chaotic It's kind of like that potluck show it looks like there is really no logic to it But when you get it all together on a plate it actually all comes together very nicely But it it's very structured organized chaos There's definitely some some some spontaneous spontaneity in the design, but they it's all carefully planned You know the plants are bored. There's a lot of background work That's happened on the team that Matt and Hunter have kind of grown over the years And so it's really cool to see this just keep growing and it's kind of a sick pun But it's definitely building year upon year and I think a big part of that we saw so Raphael was here with Hunter Nearly two years ago I believe to talk about the launch of this program project or concept with the surf blitz campaign to protect the oceans Under surf writers mission and I believe since then you've scaled up considerably So maybe if we could talk a bit about what happened in the past and where you where it's gone and where you see it going potentially Yeah, absolutely. I think that what Jen was alluding to as well as there's this really amazing group of knowledgeable practitioners of permaculture that we we came across with this ocean friendly Gardens principal and surf rider and it happened to be that we met Matt Lynch and saw this overlap in our two programs And as Jen said the the water retention programs and and building these food scapes matched perfectly So we thought it was a great idea to combine our volunteer workforces as well And over the years as you said we're we're approaching two years in this program and almost 12 blitzes the one coming up this weekend We'll be our fifth this year and it started out with Small amounts of funding through our surf rider Wahoo program And we've grown it over this last year to actually start receiving grant monies as well So through the white tourism authority and the white community foundation this last year We received a large large enough grant to fund this throughout the year and actually give back to some of our practitioners Be able to scale up on the amount of plants that we're putting in the ground The water attainment systems that we're using each time So it's been this amazing growth and not only just in in the actual funding for the mechanisms that were that were Implementing but also just in the amount of people that are getting involved from multiple circles of life So it's like we're now connecting in a whole group of surf riders into this permaculture community and vice versa and to have that Reciprocal volunteer network growing in that way. That's the idea of it as well Now it's spreading to people who may not have known about these concepts before yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I've definitely seen that in just the sheer volume of people But also materials like just you know when we started first ones I did was very bare bones and the homeowner had to buy all their own plants and that kind of stuff now You see, you know, there's truck pulls of plants and these things kind of sell out like a top rate of movie That is the email pops out and if you're not quick on the list, you just you get screened out And it's kind of like ridiculous for the small ones It's everyone's like applying in straight away and booking their spot and you're away to go So it is great to see and I think I think the key thing is there is obviously The funding is key that really having the ultimate success because that's really what we want to see is the best Possible end result rather than just kind of like a sort of so-so result I think that the transformation and the the feeling you get after participating in something like that is so rewarding just to see The before and after shots of what was there and what's left once you actually wrap stuff up It is amazing and it really is testament to the volunteers that step up So I think we have you know unlimited amount of backyards that we can keep doing this in so quite by having that evolve and You know, I think we really just scratched the tip of the iceberg So it sounds like we should we need to continue on that that whatever the grant process is We might be talking about that a bit more later in the show with some other things that are happening in regards to UH So we'll cover that soon and we'll come back and chat about where we see this evolving and growing next Hello, and welcome to the Savvy Chick show on think tech Hawaii I'm the weekly host at 11 a.m. Honolulu time very excited for the next six weeks We have the Aspire series which is all about the coolest careers I could find and interviewing and getting insights from these amazing people who want to share it with you and help you live Your dreams look forward to seeing you on the show Hey, how you doing? Welcome to about you talk. My name is Andrew Lanning. I'm your co-host and we have a nice program here every Friday at one O'clock on think tech studios where we talk about technology and we have a little bit of fun with it So join us if you can thanks, aloha For a very healthy summer watch Viva Hawaii We're giving you the best tips and with our best health coach here. So Viva health coach Viva la comida saludable Oh and welcome back to think take Hawaii My name is James okay with the Hawaii food and farmer series covering for justine and Matt while they're off Surfing and having a great life They'll be back soon and in the studio today. We have Raphael from surf writer and Jen who's a local permablitz addict Jen has corrected me that I misspoke early with the web address. It's actually permablitz Hawaii Dot-com because we're gonna make a lot of money out of this someday. I presume I Don't know. We'll have to talk to Matt about that. But he is a capitalist, right? So So I definitely Google permablitz Hawaii Yeah, cool logo. So yeah, very creative people we have up on the screen. I don't know who did the design, but Justin talk wait actually designed that culture shocker. Oh, right, right, right. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, Justin Okay, I've actually used Justin on different projects. So again another like a small community coming together, right to do good stuff so The the program how we've been going right now. I and we've just covered the evolution of the programs scaling up Currently, I believe it's only a wahoo that's doing this program under surf writer And that's because the way surf writer functions as a nonprofit headquarters or the mother ships in California and Each basically each area could have its own chapter should they Want to go for it and get funded by the local or the by the the foundation the headquarters. So have other chapters around different islands being made aware of this concept yet Do you think Raphael and are they looking into it? Yeah, there's there's definitely a growing interest in it as well I think they go with the growing interest So as you said starting in California, I mean it's really taken off in California because of the The water shortages that we see there So there's a whole different focus there in terms of the water retention and these zero escapes which are trying to Have non-water-intensive plants, but here in Hawaii. There's definitely that opportunity to grow food and and the model that we've created is definitely been getting attention nationally as well from our from our national offices and then recently we held our Surfighter Hawaii chapters conference and that's where all of our chapters from Hilo Kona Kauai and Maui all came over here so so we could discuss our different programs We did a big blitz with all that capital right the human capital. That was a huge blitz that weekend I'm sure we took advantage of all that Yeah, but they definitely we were able to do presentations at the at the conference about this program And I know there's already interest We've had some people who have moved over to Hilo from from the Oahu chapter And they're working really hard on trying to figure out a way to harness the the permaculture group Groups that are already over on Big Island doing work as well so that we can transfer this across probably not as well Organize this we are in Hawaii, but I'm sure they mean well. Anyway, just joking neighborhood Island so good So then again, you've touched on the reason why it's really ramped up is this grant from the Hawaii Tourism Authority With that grant if you get it could that also help the other neighbor neighboring islands Or would that just be for the Hawaii chapter? It would depend on how it was structured and written I guess Yeah, exactly. I mean for now with with I oversee the Oahu chapter So my responsibility in terms of finding funding is with our chapter, but I think that I There's also a model that can be used for grants across the islands as well and HCA HCA They both provide funding I see all over the state Hawaii Community Foundation Hawaii Tourism Authority, right? They both provide funding programs that are open to nonprofits all over and because we have this umbrella 501c3 nonprofit of surfrider all of our chapters have that ability to To go after those types of grandmas and that sounds like a great thing for any non-profit that wants to partner because that's ultimately this is about partnerships and Sort of using the same model and making it better rather than recreating a new model to try to try to do the same thing So this sounds like it could be opportunity for other non-profit partners that surfrider deals with anyway and sort of having Them come in and sort of organize them to use their resource community networks to join into this Huey that's sort of doing the same mission Absolutely, I think just to jump in on the grant funding as well as well. It's really pushing the program forward I think what we want to emphasize too is though that this spreads organically as well Is that by having funding we can we can really teach people what to do So at each one of these Surflets is we actually have workshops where people understand different components of the process but the idea is that they take that home with them and they take that to their neighbor and they take that to their family and That's how it really spreads as well is organically where they can have their own garden parties because they learned enough at one of our Events that then we have a spreading across not only our island Not only the other islands all the way to the mainland and that's the idea is that this idea of sustainability spreads Spreads through that way right, right? Yeah I definitely agree and it's kind of you never know what you're gonna learn when you go there I think that's kind of the beauty of the thing like you never know what you're gonna do anyway You don't know you get some email and you have to react to it so quickly Otherwise you can't go anyway So you don't even know what you've signed up for by the time you know you're gonna do it Then if you get in you just appear and you're like, okay Well, what am I doing and they're like over there and we're doing all this stuff and you know You could be planting banana trees or doing some weird berm or whatever and then there's always that side that you learn But then inevitably you're you're meeting a vegan chef that's telling you how to cook gulu somewhere And they're just like oh right and then she oh by the way I've just made them there and you're like oh this is amazing stuff So you kind of that little thing where there's so many leg lobes the whole day that you it's amazing the stuff You can learn that you will retain and and definitely share with you with your friends and neighbors So yeah, I think it's a very positive thing So, you know, I think as this evolves, you know, any watchers or listeners are thinking, you know How could we get involved? It sounds like either Pema Blitz Hawaii or Surfrider Foundation sounds like a great contact points to you know share ideas You know what resources that they might have that you we could all use and sort of see how we could partner together So yeah, that's a big plug for the community I think to get out there and sort of get get involved and definitely You know experience in my mind is definitely the best teacher you got you've got to come out and do one Meet the people hang out get dirty get in the soil and then that then it changes your whole perspective I think of really what food and farming is about and Hawaii is a special place That's why people choose to be here. So I think it helps you sort of get into the mindset of maybe what you know 100 years ago, even though we've evolved a lot since then but I know when we did our permaculture design Course that was for me incredible.  I don't think I can take one piece of it. The whole Come on. All right. That's all right But Hunts, it would say the same so you know He wasn't wearing his dress there though, so I don't think so I had no chance there were so many amazing moments the whole experience stands out as a Predominant experience in my life not only in terms of what I learned But how I learned the way in which we learned in these outdoor settings With two phenomenon phenomenal teachers who taught in a very experience based manner And they were playful and funny as well and very intelligent and very knowledgeable what about what they did know That context was amazing the food context was as amazing as you can remember all of Jen's amazing dessert She would bring us And just the community how bonded we became as a group I to this day think that that was the best PDC group ever This is Shawn actually at the back the lunatic with the big head on yeah So Shawn and they see polite act to at the top there So they're they've started a group that's actually really kind of evolved from this whole Concept to so there that I think they've been on here. I think take a couple times Hopefully by now, but friends with farms. I don't why Manalo so this was this was a blitz that happened there And you know just being in that environment with those amazing people and that's the backdrop, but you know, so Really, you can just stand there and have a great day You don't actually have to do anything, but they kind of appreciate if you do but um That's why I always go help somewhere else, but um, yes So that no that I think that that's really where I have been really sort of honored to be part of their their groups and their families, too It's kind of still Once you've done something in positive on someone's land They do feel that love and respect for the honor that you do and it's a it is a way to really collaborate and Move forward with Hawaii and that's really where we're at now is you know We we now for the first time that I was aware of how to have a state food Goal where we're trying to be growing more local food and that that's something that was just announced at the conference I use the end so that that to me was unsupply like an interesting but Surprising announcement, but really positive and I think it'd be worthwhile trying to quantify Empirically with data how to you know, what impact does this program have on that goal and What what is actually going to be the end result which I think should translate into applying for bigger grants So, you know, it makes sense to you know use the Rockefeller opportunity maybe to put even leverage this kind of grant opportunity to a much higher level I think that kind of we see where it's going and where it could go So and there's also been another group that another cool person Sam Ruitt started the soup concept ended up kick-starting another Very creative concept called the UH tool library. I believe is that was the final name? so Yeah, obviously doing all this work you can do it with your hands, but it takes a lot of time So we need tools right so rough you think you know a bit more about what's going on with that concept and Ultimately where it could go maybe. Yeah, absolutely. So this is amazing. It's brand new to the island designed by UH sustainability students Incredible that they've they've got it going they found space with Ryu's Hawaii And I believe they're launching in November I actually just got off the phone with their director this morning trying to figure out ways that we can partner with the Surf blitz program and it's a great idea it's a concept where basically they want to have an inventory of tools that is available to the public and Through monthly dues you'll you have access to this library rather than going out and buying a $500 chainsaw or weed whacker that you once and then keeping your cabinet collecting dust Exactly is like there it's gonna have this this opportunity for the public to be able to you if they need something one time They come in and they can use the the tool library and we're looking into ways to partner as I said that Perhaps even our tool library from the surf blitz program can be part of their tool library and and again it's just about that growing community and giving people opportunities to to be able to work their land and and Not have to invest completely in those tools that are really expensive for a lot of people So that's I mean in talking with them today That's part of the design is is to open it up to so many different parts of the community You may not be able to afford to buy their own tools Yeah, and that you know that's sharing anything obviously that's it means you have to communicate Right, which is part of the community building the community through communication and sharing and it's I think it's a great concept that that that So yeah kudos to the UH guys for sort of following that crazy idea when I first heard about it I'm like, okay, this is gonna get problematic and are probably well, but you know, they're gonna get over that right? It's kind of adapting and surviving so I think We follow up that last plug I want to make is for this Saturday So and that's kind of why I wanted to rally people with this show today was we're the first time ever so puts is doing it at a public school So poor or in Kenya. Oh, hey That's why these guys are here so nine o'clock till three o'clock Basically, and it's on the website details are on the website. I'm a bit away as well as surfer or what who does surfer Excellent to check the website right there and um, yeah, everyone's invited kids welcome families welcome Come and just check it out and have a look really even if you don't want to do anything, but it's you know amazing day I was gonna go to the big island for the Hawaii Firm is United Conference conference But I think I'm gonna stay here and do that now be carbon friendly Yeah, it's great. I mean for the at the school as well as we I mean we just need as many people as possible Yep, so it's great. Come on out. Come on down. All right. Well, thanks guys for coming in That's a place. Yeah. All right, so that's it for today. Thank you for tuning in and we'll see you again next week


So, for those of you that don't know, everybody's favorite computer company officially filed for bankruptcy. And there's the rewoll. But I'm not here to remind you about the fact that they didn't give a PC to somebody because they didn't have enough cloud and subsequently let themselves get cancelled as if they were content creators rather than a company.  I'm here to tell you about their public auction. You see, when a company files for bankruptcy, that is their way of saying that we don't have enough money to pay off the existing debts that we have. So all of their assets get seized and are oftentimes auctioned off by a bank or other government businesses to help pay off those debts. Our teaching build tweeted out that their public auction is June 21st, which as of the time of this recording is tomorrow. I was made aware of this while I was live on stream. They're selling off their PCs. We can go to an auction for their PCs. Now, if you take a look at the Dropbox link in their tweet, you can actually see a full inventory list of everything they are selling. And to be honest, they have a lot of cool stuff. They even have like 40 wooden PC cases, which I personally would love to get my hands on. But if you first, before you start asking how to buy this stuff, because unless you're looking to start a PC company, you can't know Chris, they're auctioning all of the assets of Oakland in a single law and all of the assets of North Carolina in a lot.  All right. So we have to buy the whole thing. They are only auctioning off three separate lots, California facilities inventory, North Carolina's facilities inventory. And lastly, they're intangibles.  Because if you are going to buy these lots, you will be acquiring multiple PCs that were meant for content creators who sign contracts with artesian builds for partnership. And some of these content creators even paid money on top of their sponsorship that they were receiving from artesian. And all of them had their communities exploited by artesian for more money than was even negotiated on the contract. And these streams are basically a way to show the partner build, but also for them to get subs and stuff. And they encouraged this by putting those milestones that people do during subathons. If you don't know what I mean or haven't watched the previous video, allow me to explain. Artesian would reach out to content creators and offer a computer and rarely money as well in exchange for advertisement for their PC building services. Artesian would then build that computer on their live stream. The really gross thing they would do is ask those streamers to raid them while they were building their PC, which is incredibly taboo. And then they would tell the viewers of that streamer that we will upgrade your streamer's PC if you give us money. So if your content creator who has just sent over your entire fan base that you have spent so much time working on being told that you're going to have your computer upgrade, how are you supposed to feel now you're telling me that you can even give me the best computer you had. Now you're going to milk my community for more money to make me a better computer. What were you going to give me in the first place? What happens if we don't hit that goal?  Just that tactic alone is incredibly ugly, and it did not get enough attention for how gross it really was. Because I am still sitting here wondering how a company was allowed to file for bankruptcy and yet all this extra money that they constantly milked from their partner's communities. Where did it go? Where is that money? So if we, for example, take a look at Rami's tweet, who is one of these streamers that contracted a deal with Artesian, he says, not only does Artesian builds OS money, the community gifted almost 5,000 subs during my build, and they said they can't send me my PC. And in case you don't understand what 5,000 Twitch subs looks like in an actual dollar amount, it is at the very least 12,500 dollars. Is there any legal action these content creators could take? Because I legitimately don't know. And the thing is, Rami isn't the only one. Nick and Milena's Twitch moderator, who was promised a custom Kirby wrapped PC, also didn't receive their PC. This computer can also be found pictured in the inventory list. And to make it even better, there are more content creator PCs that are being sold in this auction that are not even being pictured. I've had a few streamers reach out to me asking me if this new PC company that was started by ex-employees of Artesian, people that were not involved with the downfall of Artesian, is even worth dealing with because they still haven't received the PC that they were promised. Anyways, I expect the lot in California to go from anywhere from 50 to 100,000 dollars and the lot in North Carolina to go from anywhere of 100,000 to 200,000 dollars. Everything in here, why do they have? Were people living there? If you're wondering why there's that big of a difference in the prices, that's because we've come to find out that in the California location, they were trying to play content creator, whereas in North Carolina, they were actually doing a lot of the real work for the company, building computers that were going to customers. They're more paced. But what I really want to show you is that funny little lot at the end, the intangibles. At first glance, if you were to buy this lot, all you'd be getting is the name of the company, the website, the trademark for their logo and some bonuses. Those bonuses are a customer list with 10,000 names, a list of 1000 social media influencers emails, and then a receivable account in the amount of 20,500 dollars from soft giving. Now, number one, that customer list is the most valuable of the three, but it's not guaranteed to be actually worth anything. The reason being is that those customers are people who have bought a PC and probably won't need one for a few years. And having heard everything that happened with artesian builds, they are probably going to be incredibly wary when it comes to buying a computer in the future. Now, you could try and sell that data to a marketing company who would try to sell them peripherals like mice, keyboards or streamer gear that would make them millionaires overnight and just from their basement. But again, there's no guarantee that they buy anything. Oh, and the best part is you might not even be allowed access to this list of 10,000 customers. There's a consumer privacy policy that has to be reviewed by a judge in court seeing if you're even allowed to have it. Number two, that list of social media influencers emails is worth nothing. This influencer list of approximately 1000 names is worthless because unless you were going to offer any of those people money, there's no way they would be willing to work with you for anything and spoiler alert, you could literally find that information in people's Twitter bio.  The reason being is because we want sponsors and so we put our business emails on everything. Now, some of you might think, oh no, Chris, that's their personal email, not their agency's email, so that makes it more valuable.  An agency is not a goalie that is protecting companies from getting better deals by talking directly with the content creator. As a matter of fact, if you email me directly and try to lowball me for any sponsored deal, I will reply to you with five times your initial asking rate. Number three, the outstanding $20,000 that is owed from soft giving is exceptionally questionable. You might think at first glance that this lot is worth at least that much money, but it's not actually guaranteed. The reason is when you work with a company, even one of these weird fundraise for charity middlemen that allow you to take a percentage of what you fundraise for afterwards, you need to invoice the company. There is no guarantee that a teasing ever invoiced for the owed amount. And sometimes these contracts have a clause in it where if you, the content creator, do not properly invoice the company within the allotted time specified in the contract, you are not owed anything. And so what I'm trying to say is that the entire lot three of intangibles might only be worth the meme of owning artesianbuilds.com. I would buy artesianbuilds.com because then I could put in a YouTube video. I bought artesianbuilds.com. If that's worth it to you, go bin on it or contact the winner of the auction. Anyways, I found this public auction interesting, so I will leave a link to it in the description as well as a link to my Twitch stream in case you want to come over and share your thoughts on it. Okay, see you later. Bye.


Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Ava, RSG Commander, and OIC of the Mayer Cell. A Mayer Cell is designed to provide units, quick buildup of combat power. And in the case of our mission here in Barraco, it's to receive those units, conduct joint reception, staging and onward integration, and also then as they integrate into their new locations, provide that sustainment support so that they can build combat power quickly and execute their mission. What does an RSG do? The best way is to say we do anything related to base operation sustainment. And that can be anything from you coming to me about a soldier issue that you're having. Perhaps that they've had some situation. Perhaps it's something to deal with food service. Perhaps it's something to deal with a situation unit to unit situation, green on green so to speak. But also then really any needs from deployment to redeployment to while you're here conducting your mission. Anything really that you need from a support to a tenant unit would be something that the RSG is here to support you. These are all parts of our mission that we are here to support from like I said the port operations to feeding of the troops that are here in Barraco to making sure that they have suitable living conditions. And ultimately if we do our job well, it's almost like they don't know we're here and things just magically appear. And so that's really our goal is to provide the highest level of customer service to our tenant units and partners. I am in the Army Reserves. I've been in the Army Reserves for over 23 years. I've held different positions of increasing responsibility from starting my time as a platoon leader all the way up to battalion commander and then of course having the opportunity to be here in Barraco for African Lion as the OIC of the mayor cell and RSG commander. The role of the U.S. Army Reserve Soldier at African Lion 2021 is to... There's multiple parts to that mission. First and foremost is to recognize that we're a guest in Barraco and really respect the country and consider it a privilege to be here and be working with the Barraco forces. Second is to hone our training. Part of the mission of the Army Reserve is to be a trained and ready force and this provides us an opportunity to be that global force, to be trained and ready to understand how to deploy, how to redeploy, how to build combat power. And in some cases here there's different environments that we're working in and some of them are more austere so it gives us the opportunity to conduct training and execute our mission in an austere environment. I believe that that's one of the benefits of having an Army Reserve force is that they bring different skill sets beyond our military training to the fight. For example, some of us are police officers on the civilian side and that gives an opportunity for them to interact with the forces here but also to use that sort of training to help provide a safe environment for the soldiers to work in from organizing how we're interacting with the Barraco forces to understanding how to keep a disciplined force to make sure that we respect the Barraco's at all time. I think all of us bring something different to the fight from myself who is a director on the civilian side and really I have opportunities to work with different cultures all around the world and it really helps to as we communicate with the Rockins to understand their personal and situation and really be able to connect with them and understand and have that partnership experience versus Army Army experience and to really build those friendships. I hope that the Reserve soldiers that have the opportunity to participate in African Lion 2021 will take back to them to their civilian lives a really deep and rich understanding of the culture here in Morocco as well as the friendships and understanding and relationships and take that new knowledge and apply it to whatever their civilian role may be whether it's a leader in an organization or even continuing back to those who are active guard reserve for their full-time job. The top thing that I'm going to take back to my civilian job is just the interactions and friendships and partnerships that I've built with the Moroccan forces here because I think it tells us that the world is much bigger it's not about where we sit in Madison, Wisconsin it's understanding that the world is rich in culture and diversity and taking that back and applying and sharing it with my employees as they go forward in their responsibilities and roles to understand that it's important for us to seek out and understand differences in culture and apply it to our understanding so that we can build a better world. Why did I sign up 23 years ago? It was truly to serve my country. I'm the first person in my family that served in the armed forces and it's a humbling experience. I encourage everyone to do this not only because it's our responsibility but because we get to serve and you think of all of the soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines that have died before us right defending our great country that's why I did it because it's something that I'm responsible for to defend our country. I appreciate all of the things that our soldiers do and airmen and corpsmen and Marines so all services and not just even Father's Day just thinking of all the families that are missing their loved ones and thinking about them and knowing that they're here safe and sound and that we're going to get them back home soon.


In ciliated epithelium, the epithelial cells contain hair-like structures called cilia. So these are the cilia, the hair-like structures and these are the epithelial cells which can be cuboidal or columnar. So what is the importance of these hair-like structures and where are they found? So they can be found in the respiratory tract, the oviduct that is in the female reproductive system and the vasoreferensia in the male reproductive system. These are some examples of where they are found but why is ciliated epithelium found in these places? So to understand that, let's take a look at what these cilia exactly do. So let's say in your upper respiratory tract, for example, let's say at the back of your nose, there are some dust particles floating around. Now dust particles are bad for our lungs, they should not settle there, right? So the body doesn't want them there. So what does it do? It has to get rid of the dust particles. Similarly, there can be bacteria in your nose and your upper respiratory tract like your trachea or bronchi or bronchioles and also viruses and some other microorganisms. A lot of these are quite harmful to us and the body wants to get rid of them. So what it does is, it secretes mucus.  So what this mucus does is, as you know, mucus is a sticky substance. It traps all these dust and bacteria and viruses inside and then the body has to get rid of this whole mucus with all these trapped things inside it. It's much easier to get rid of the mucus which is much bigger than the tiny dust or bacteria or viral particles and that is where the cilia come into the picture. So the cilia have a sweeping motion kind of like a broom as a broom can be used to sweep the floor. Similarly, the cilia because of the structure, the structure is essentially the same as that of a broom. The cilia when they move, they can sweep the mucus away from the body. If let's say there is some mucus stuck in your trachea, the sweeping motion of the cilia will move the mucus upwards away from the body or if it's at the back of the nose, then the body will move the mucus forward so that it goes outward towards the outside of the nose. So when the cilia move, when the cilia move using their sweeping action, the mucus moves outwards away from the body. So this is what happens in the respiratory tract. Now let me show you another example of what happens when cilia move. Let's take a look at what happens inside an oviduct. So you know that every month or let's say every 28 days, the ovaries of a woman release one ovum in one of the oviducts. So that ovum is released at the beginning of the oviduct and it has to be propelled forwards towards the uterus. Here again the sweeping motion of the cilia come into the picture, the cilia sweep and sweep and the ovum moves and moves and moves towards the uterus. So this is all that is there to know about ciliated epithelium. This is how the cilia function whether to propel mucus or ova or something else, let's say sperm in the male reproductive tract. This is pretty much all the cilia do in ciliated epithelium.


Hello there. It's Thursday at noon. I know it is. Do you remember our arrangement? Thursdays at noon on CFUV. Are you ready to get started? What do you have in mind? What I want to do now is called First Person Plural. You make it sound excessively attractive. That's what I have in mind. Jennifer Portnick loves aerobics. 38-year-old San Francisco resident stood out in her Jazzercise class. Performing routines so well, her instructor asked her to audition for a position with the company. Portnick did so, but was not initially accepted by Jazzercise as an instructor. It wasn't her skill, her stamina, her techniques, her sense of rhythm, or her talent that kept her from acceptance. It was how she looked. At 240 pounds, the 5'8", Portnick was told by Jazzercise that she should go on a diet and aim for a, quote, more fit appearance, close quote. If she lost the required weight in six months, she could work for Jazzercise. Portnick told Jazzercise that such a goal was unrealistic. Then she did not take no for an answer. In September of 2001, Portnick filed a complaint with San Francisco's Human Rights Commission, alleging a violation of the city's, quote, fat and short, close quote, provision that bans discrimination based on size. What has followed has been a flurry of debates in the press and international boundaries about the truth of the fatness-fitness dichotomy.  On May 6, 2002, International No Diet Day, Portnick's attorney, Sandra Sauvane, announced that Portnick and Jazzercise had reached a satisfactory agreement with the Human Rights Commission acting as mediator. The provisions of the agreement are not made public, and the press has released a statement that they have abandoned their, quote, fit appearance, close quote requirement, stating, quote, recent studies document that it may be possible for people of varying weights to be fit. Jazzercise has determined that the value of fit appearance as a standard is debatable, close quote. This arbitration and its controversy has come at a time when fatness is being hailed as the leading health concern in Western countries such as the United States, Canada, Great Britain, and Australia. Research about the effects of fatness on health remains controversial and incomplete, but mainstream media and government agencies encouraged by diet companies, pharmaceutical companies, and bariatric physicians are painting a dismal picture. The mainstream media does not report studies about weight not being a factor in health, such as a 2000 study by Blair indicating it is a lack of exercise that leads to the traditional problems associated with fatness and that these health problems exist in thin people who do not exercise at the same rates as fat people who do not exercise. Nor does the mainstream media report about the uselessness of dieting, such as a 1999 study by Heatherton and Tickle, who report that chronic dieting actually leads to large and more efficient fat storage. Nor does the mainstream media report about the problems with dieting, such as Innsberger's study which reported that dieting and weight loss not only did not have long-term effects on such diseases as hypertension and type 2 diabetes, but that it led to more serious health problems, especially when the dieting includes and dieting included drugs. While these research stories get buried or not reported at all, fat bashing is back in vogue. Recently, a University of Central Florida school newspaper ran a column written by a restaurant hostess who called for the banning of fat people from public places because she found them too gross to watch while they ate. Both Forbes Magazine and Global Globe ran columns quote exposing close quote supposed costs of fatness to society, relying upon the controversial research statistics cited by mainstream news sources and faulty logic to conclude that quote passive fat close quote meant to parallel passive smoking was endangering everyone's health.  Even debates about Portnick's specific case have deteriorated into fat bashing. CNN's Crossfire couldn't find anyone better than US shock jock Neil Burtz to take up jazzercise's position in a so called debate that featured Burtz calling Portnick a quote lard butt close quote and suggesting that hiring her would be like a cosmetic company hiring a woman whose quote face looks like it caught fire and they put it out with a fork close quote. The stigma of being fat has increased in the latter half of the 20th century as thinness became the beauty icon of the time and it looks like the 21st century is going in full gear towards demonizing fatness even while most of us are getting fatter. A number of people have made connections between these impossible standards of beauty and women's rights eating disorders and discrimination based upon appearance. Human and civil rights laws do not explicitly protect fat people in all but a few places in the western world. Michigan San Francisco Seattle Santa Cruz California and Washington DC have laws banning women explicitly. Size is not mentioned in the Canadian Charter or the Canadian Human Rights Act. In British Columbia in March 2000 Dionne Rogel won a discrimination suit before the BC Human Rights Commission stating that he had been turned down for a job because of his size. However, like American with Disabilities Act cases in the US Rogel won on the basis of protection for the disabled not on the basis of how he looked.  This brings us back to Jennifer Portnick's story. You can read about her philosophy on the net at www.feelinggoodfitness.com She took time to talk to us when she was in San Francisco home. Basically, your Jazzercise instructor said, wow, you really know how to do this and started the paperwork. She came to me and said, yes, wow, you really know how to do this and I also think she said to me that I would be good for her business because I would attract a clientele that she doesn't already have so as a result of that I started working out six days a week and I just was getting in the best shape and I was like, well, but you are going to be great. You are going to be fabulous but you need to work on your fit appearance and then I was prescribed dietary changes and various other things I needed to do that had nothing to do with my strength or endurance or skill level. Did you attempt any of these things? Did you try to comply with them? I did not. I responded to the district manager and I thanked her for her interest and her support that it would be unrealistic of me to commit that I would work to change my body by January 1st or anytime. Were you aware of the law in San Francisco when you received this letter or is this stuff that you learned about in the last year? I vaguely knew in the back of my mind that something had happened related to fat in the city of San Francisco but I wasn't clear on the law. First of all, I didn't know for sure that there was one and secondly, that it would apply to me, I had no idea. Well, I went to a meeting of size-accepting professionals here in the Bay Area. We call ourselves the Think Tank. One of the people at the meeting was Sandra Salovey who is, as far as we know, the only attorney in the country or maybe in the world who practices weight-based discrimination law and she heard my story and pulled me aside and said, Jennifer, I don't know if you know this but there is a law recently passed in the city of San Francisco that dismissed the possibility of taking some sort of action which at that time I was just going to let it go, honestly. So the way that you found out about this information and met the attorney who eventually helped you fight this was because you were involved, you said at Think Tank, is this a regular meeting that you have? It is a group that formed in the Bay Area and some of the lead and founding members are people like Pat Lyons and the Health at Any Size movement and other people who do size acceptance full-time like Marilyn Juan and Sandra Salovey and their nutritionists and therapists and all kinds of different people who make this a mission in their everyday lives. So this network was a size acceptance network? Yes, and it was in place and I happened to call Pat Lyons who had written an article on working with the large size in a study guide that I had been given and I burst into tears on the phone and we talked for a long time and she said, you should come to this meeting and it was one of the very best things I've ever done.  I did. It wasn't an easy decision to pursue it. I talked about it with Sandra and I talked about it with my husband and my family. You always have to weigh if the potential positive outcome worth what is going to certainly be the impact on my life. So I did. I thought about it for a while and I decided that I did think that it was worth pursuing and that's exactly what I did. What were some of the negatives about pursuing it that you anticipated? Well, being called fat in public not something I normally desire to do but certainly it has happened as a result of this. I didn't want time and attention to be taken away from very important relationships in my life, whether it be my husband, my friends, my family. I didn't want to be seen as someone who is a rabble rouser because I don't know if you know this I'm from the south and we like everybody to get along. And so for me this was really stepping outside of my cultural box. I knew when I took this on that everyone was not going to be happy. I hopefully was driven by the thought that there could be some positive change. Yes. Have you experienced some negative vibes? Some. It's by far not the predominant response. People spot me on the street and say, go girl, congratulations. That's 90% of what I hear but there is the element of for example I was talked about on Crossfire and John was on one side and the radio shock on the other said I was a large butt and there is film of me and he is saying what I would have purchased if he were following me around during a grocery store trip. Things like that that seem like personal attacks rather than about the issues. He was trying to if I understand his positions is trying to upset people to the point of taking a position rather than really talking about the issues. Tell me about your journey to self acceptance and size acceptance in your life. Is this something you have worked on for a long time? I never thought of it as size acceptance. I started dieting as a small child. I have always perceived myself to be a fat person even when in high school I weighed 145 pounds and I thought that was huge. I started dieting as a small child that was 9 and over the years I did all kinds of things whether it be diet pills. I took them all, not at one time but I have done all the diet pills and various diets and worked with nutritionists and all with the goal of somehow changing my size. It was about the time that I got married in 1998 and I don't think that is a coincidence. I think that having a loving supportive amazing partner as I have in my husband and to say the things that I have been doing and investing in enormous amount of energy are not effective. Secondly, they are degrading to me and to anyone else I feel who is made to feel that somehow they have to change themselves to fit into society's standard of what is okay. That was about five years ago that I stopped dieting. I have never been somebody who as I say I am not a rabble rouser but I felt this is just you don't have to be a rat in a psychology experiment to get that this is not effective. In fact I think it is counterproductive. My own personal experience with dieting has been that not only at the end of the diet did I gain back everything but my health was a little worse for the wear as well. I think that you came to your conclusion probably about ten years before I did in terms of age but I do understand would you agree with me that there is a lot of pressure in society on women to do this? Oh my God. Pressure. It's pervasive. It's the Weight Watchers meeting that happened on the hallway where my office is. It's the comments that people make in a very innocent way. Many of them. You look great. You've lost weight. When I first became aware of the message in that comment I would say to anyone who from my point of view I didn't foist it on anyone but if someone asked me I would say you know that really suggests that first of all I didn't look so great before and secondly that somehow being slimmer is the only way that I can look more attractive and I reject that. The interesting thing is you don't know by looking at someone how they relate to this issue and I've heard more slim people and average and larger sized people say to me oh my gosh this means so much to me to hear this. Tell me a little bit about how you came to think of aerobics and thinking of aerobics more than just weight loss terms. I've been doing aerobics for 15 years. I started in my early 20s and to me it was always fun. I felt like I didn't look like everybody else in the class and some classes I felt more comfortable in than others but I was continually lured in by the mix of music and motion and to me that was just the most appealing combination. I didn't feel many times that I was even exercising and when Christy who was my instructor a year ago when she approached me I thought you know this is an opportunity to make fitness appealing and hopefully non-threatening and non-judgemental for people like me and like me doesn't mean necessarily my size but people who feel that somehow they have been left out of the fitness industry and the best society in general and they want to feel good in their bodies and feel accepted and comfortable for who they are and that's what I try to offer in my classes. My own experience with Jazzercise was nearly the back row. I remember feeling extremely embarrassed to have anybody standing behind me while I did it and the back row was made up. I mean I have a good rhythm. I enjoyed dancing but the back row was made up of either bigger women or women who had no rhythm and we would all just kind of cower in the back row and hope nobody paid attention to us and when you have a class I've heard people from your classes who I also talked to them quite a bit talk about how much fun it is you have a certain philosophy about doing the class tell me a little bit about it. Yeah well I mean there are a couple things that I really operate. One is that I make myself very accessible to people in the class before and after and in between. I don't set myself up as the person on the stage who is better at doing all these things than you will ever be. I'm very communal with my class and I communicate with them quite a bit by email I take musical requests and I listen to their comments and I consider us a community as much as anything else. What's different is I don't ever speak of of course weight loss but also of you know somehow altering or removing body parts as Marilyn one would say I like my thighs I don't want to get rid of them I don't want anybody to get rid of their thighs either I might like if they got stronger and if they felt more energetic and you know to me when someone comes to me and says Jennifer I didn't feel like taking a nap today I really I got through my whole day and I felt really good and I was like oh great okay we're a match made in heaven and then the other thing is I don't push people to go past what is their I don't want to say comfort zone I like to say mild discomfort is okay pain is not okay if you are in pain whatever you are doing please stop and take breaks people are doing the best that they can I don't think that my hollering and saying push harder is encouraged when they can be comfortable doing what is within their zone and know that they're not being judged because of it whatever that may be do you know any of the history of the San Francisco well I know a little bit of it I know that there was I believe about two years ago there was an ad campaign by a major health club in this country and on the billboard as part of the ad campaign it said when they come they'll eat the fat ones they either eat or take the fat ones first oh my god and this was not well received in the city of San Francisco in particular and the outrage that was generated caused Maryland to lead a demonstration of people doing aerobics in front of city hall and that was part of the momentum that led to the law being drafted and then passed have you decided to go ahead and become a jazzercise instructor you know I'm not going to reapply and that's not a comment on their program at all I applaud them for what they have done I think it was very forward thinking thing to do and I support them in their business and I hope that I'll get to work a jazzercise class into my schedule and I go as a participant but I discovered when I started doing my own classes back in January that first of all I like creating choreography and I like doing my own music and also I feel that I've created something of a niche that is rather unique to me and I'm going to continue to do that but I wish all the jazzercise folks the very best I really appreciate you being willing to do this Patty it's a pleasure I'm an admirer of yours and I'm just delighted we had a chance to talk I am too well you take care and I do appreciate it your fee 101.9 FM Victoria why are we even discussing fat i.e. as opposed to health why we being the society why are we discussing fat as if it were given that we could be discussing health instead issue two if we can see that health is an issue and it is why would we then discuss fat given that health is an issue why would we discuss it is it an opposition or the second makes it more of a nest in design I think is the term does anyone really think that heroin chic is healthy for instance there's lots of studies that have shown that people who are very very thin and old age are more frail because if you don't have a certain amount of body fat by the time that you begin to have illnesses that are associated with old age if you don't have the energy your immune system doesn't have enough energy to fight it off so question one boils down to why are we discussing fat as opposed to health and question two boils down to given that we're discussing health why are we discussing fat at all and I've never heard a satisfactory answer to either one of those questions well I think there's a capitalist answer to it really that's hard to believe okay well there's a concept of a sociologist which is what my specialty training was in the idea behind the social construction of diseases is that some diseases end up not being called diseases at all they get changed into something else through the social negotiation of what they are or what they are not they get redefined and reconstructed with each diagnosis they get redefined and reconstructed with each study that comes out they get redefined and reconstructed with each support of a group that shows up and starts saying this is real it gets negotiated out in public discourse between different interested parties all the time and some things that we have called diseases in the past are no longer thought of as diseases now for instance in the 19th century there was a disease called dropsy and dropsy had symptoms and among the symptoms was that you drop things that you couldn't hang on to things that you were letting them fall down and it was considered a disease that was mostly contracted I don't know whether the contractors are right but affected women and it was a disease that had something to do with the menstrual cycle and it was effectively defined as demonstrating that women didn't have any brain power I think that there is a very good possibility that obesity is going to be one of those things that falls by the wayside eventually that obesity is a constructed disease that really is not quite doesn't quite fit the medical model and I know how radical that statement is right now there are a lot of people with a lot invested in fatness being a disease called obesity and it equals an expansion of power in the medical system anything that can become medicalized extends medical power in society and the extension of medical power in both Canada and the United States though in different with different routes equals more money to certain people I mean in the United States it means probably a lot more money than it does in Canada but in either direction it means more money it means more money going into the healthcare industry more created need yes now that doesn't mean that it isn't valid sometimes let's not suggest here that nothing should be medicalized but we can suggest and there is ample historic context to this suggestion that a lot of things get medicalized that have no business being medicalized phrenology comes to mind right now I wanted to be a phrenologist when I was in high school for those people who don't know what a phrenology is why don't you explain it well for those people who don't know what sarcasm is I've just used it in case you're thinking I hope he isn't serious about that phrenology is basically studying phenotypes there's a little way around it it's phenotype without regard for anything else thus one has the criminal phenotype and various others one studies facial features especially to determine what sort of personality lies behind them and this has a very racist history yeah this was used to prove although it has never become as prominent again as it was in the 19th century this has been used to prove that people of color are stupid it's been used to prove that people of color are more promiscuous when you think about it talking about body size is a type of phrenology we really are identifying a phenotype here and we're saying a fat body and a fat body is filled in the blank when in fact there's a wide variety of fat bodies with a wide variety of health issues not to mention a wide variety of intellectual levels a wide variety of talents a wide variety of personalities and so forth and yet fat prejudice suggests that all fat people are dumb all fat people are ugly all fat people are sickly and it brings out the notion of fat as assigned i.e. not self identified or negotiated social role you can't opt out just by telling people I'm not fat they're going to say oh yeah you are you're fat we know all about the logical implications of assigned social roles I don't think the assigned social role is fat I think the assigned social role is obese being fat is an adjective brown eyes or flaxen hair there are bodies that are fatter than other bodies but what makes it a social role and what medicalizes it is the word obese or overweight overweight but what makes it a social role is when you point to it and you say because they are large they are also this it's not a social role to have dark skin I would say that it's assigned suffices I would say that it is an assigned role suffices that is not negotiated it's not self identification if you can assign social roles you can assign anything else as well you can assign quote objective close quote behavior characteristics to that person you can assign additional social roles to them based on the quote logical implications close quote of the assigned social role you can do just about anything at that point the assignation is what makes that clear who is the you in this I'm getting confused whoever does the assignment of the social role it can be one person, it can be hierarchical or it can be collaborative it can be everybody but the fat kid standing around calling them names on the playground that's the case of the latter the hierarchical is easy enough to visualize and I will bore you with repeating my description of what's wrong with hierarchies here I deliberately put it in passive voice because for once I don't think the object is the issue but not in the specific case it can be one person or one hierarchical connection of people or it can be something that everyone just decides one day I'd say indeed the latter is more robust than the former for indeed the former exists only with the consensus of the latter when Goffman talks about stigma he is suggesting that there are physical attributes of people that have social meanings and that those social meanings are powerful clues for the ways in which people decide to treat you if you have a certain physical attribute that has a negative social meaning to it other people pick up on that queue and they will treat you in negative ways and because they treat you in those negative ways you start having a sense of self that is negative you are treated poorly and you begin to internalize that poor treatment if you're a man with long hair you're going to get beaten up more often than a man with short hair that starts the world yes and after a while you're going to start internalizing that you're going to interpret that as a part of yourself because you because the factors are confounded you can't quote no close quote or you don't understand the extent to which is because of the social symbol therefore you have to come up with various ways to cope with this negativity that's going on in your social relationships and there are lots of ways in which people cope as people start to compensate that often becomes part of the stigma there is a kind of stigmatization about exercising in public and so fat people tend to try not to be out in public riding a bike or running or walking or whatever because they will get teased or given grief about it and so therefore they become inactive and then everybody points at them and says look at that, that person's inactive and when I said a science social role I meant that I didn't mean that they pass out name tags and say okay you're on the blue team this week the red team the way they pass out the temporary jerseys, the pennies I think they're called a phys-ed when you're playing when you're playing soccer if you're a fat person now riding a bike so that cold people tease you and you're less likely to ride a bike in the future which in turn carries into the stigmatization that fat people don't ride bikes so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy the fat people being jolly it's not because they are jolly in some metaphysical way in some metaphysical sense of the word it's because they get pressured into playing the jolly role because people think they're jolly it's the agency of the other right, if you laugh at yourself first it diffuses the situation where other people will laugh at you so making fun of your own stigma is a way of diffusing the painful stigma of others sometimes the only way that is not grounded metaphysically people are jolly although it may be generally valid although I don't think it is it does not mean that it's universally valid you can call it scapegoating if you like there are other names for it but the mechanisms have been similar throughout history sometimes that sort of thing is deliberate sometimes someone says let's go out and really stick it to those guys more often than not it's just intellectual sloppiness it's people who refuse to take a look at what they're doing and don't really care what the implications are if they're refusing to look at what they're doing it's repeating something often times I mean we keep coming back we might not have subtitled this show first person plural in examination of memes but it does it becomes a mean that gets repeated and fat is unhealthy is a meme right now yes it is it's a very strong meme I mean it's amazing to me how much people cling to that and what rights it gives them in conversation they know that fat people need to be corrected and since they know that they know it's okay for them personally to do so I think it's not even a mind thing sometimes I think it's a compassion thing oh maybe I should say something they never look at the basic premise is that it yes they never look at it whether it's compassionate or controlling they think of it in terms of helping someone out people have a tendency to believe that they are doing something nice for the fat person by saying something to them not that there aren't people who are mean but both of these kind of things come from the same misconception about what fat is and what it isn't and what the fat person is and isn't and they both have the same effect of stigmatization even though they're motivated by two different things I mean you have the bully who picks on people because of their weight but you also have the very well-meaning people who walk up and offer diet tips and so forth as if this person has never seen a mirror I have another theory about why people correct people who are fat I think that body issues are the most emotional of all we need to feel good about our bodies in order to feel good about ourselves that if we're not comfortable in our own skins we have a hard time being comfortable with the world around us and we are taught very young to not be comfortable with our bodies and I think that the whole dieting issue taps into that it is a way of trying to control who we are in order to make ourselves more socially acceptable to others in order to feel comfortable in our skin people are not willing to examine it they're afraid to examine it if they examine it it becomes almost physically painful to think about bodies in socially unacceptable ways so the fat person reminds us that we are flesh and blood after all they prod our memory and make it difficult for us to ignore the physical aspects of our own being and a fat person who's comfortable in their body is even more disturbing similarly I would say with sexuality that we try to deny our sexuality but have you that other people have is trying to deny our sexuality and the person with an eye toward the sensuous in dressing provoke in us the knowledge that this is not who we are that we are not disjointed cerebral creatures that we're physical creatures if you caught us doing not bleed and so forth and that reminder makes us angry at them for throwing us off which would explain why women have been comfortable with their sexuality women have been called all sorts of nasty names who display their sexuality one way or the other instead of trying to conceal it you might make a similar argument for men I had a class in a college and the professor invited the homosexuals to come speak to us I'm not kidding you and two of them showed up one man one woman and one of them opined that one of the things that the anti homosexual crowd displayed was a sort of disdain for sexuality in general we like to think in western society that we are more brain than we are body and I think that being fat and having a fat person who is comfortable taps into those to that body yeah I like to raise the issue of stigmatization of people who marry fat people rarely does anyone say anything directly to me about your weight it's very rare that it happens but we have the feeling that there are people who think less of me because I'm married to you because you're fat I can't tell you in no specific case do I have enough to up to press this but after about 100 different incidents or little half noticed incidents one begins to suspect a pattern that's the thing about prejudice you never really know in the specific case unless someone comes right out and says it did you ever play ghost as a kid if you talk to a ghost you become a ghost well they did that with communism in the 50s you talk to a communist you must be a communist likewise for homosexuals I would say just after that if you're talking with a homosexual then you must be one too if you have the same sex as them if you have the other sex then there are additional interesting appellations they apply to you and it's with whom you associate that largely determines how do I put it that's the social symbol as well the cool kids not wanting to be seen with the geeks because quote people close quote I think that their geeks do instead of cool people right I think that applies in a lot of areas I wonder if fatism hasn't reared its ugly head in this area as well as the others you mentioned I'm sure that it has one doesn't like to ever generalize but is it fair to say that fat people have to be brave sometimes yes I think so well I think you do a good job of being brave being fat means being hated the dictionary of sociology defines stigma as quote any physical or social attribute or sign that so devalues an actor's social identity as to disqualify him from full social acceptance different applications follow for the stigmatized person according to whether the stigma is visible the individual is obviously discredited or hidden the individual is potentially discreditable the latter allows a greater number of options to the stigmatized person to manage his or her stigma but in both cases the actor's problems lie in finding a means of limiting or even turning to some advantage the damaging effects of the stigma close quote Garfman the social psychologist who wrote extensively about stigma writes that stigmas allow people to think of others as less than human quote the attitudes we normals have toward a person with a stigma and the actions we take in regard to him are well known since these responses are what nevolent social action is designed to soften and ameliorate by definition of course we believe the person with a stigma is not quite human close quote fatness is one such stigma in the western world it is a marking that allows people to poke fun at the fat person to be mean to the fat person without much misgiving to give the fat person paternalistic and unsolicited advice and to regard the fat person as lazy, ugly or stupid fat stigmatization leads to discrimination in jobs, in medicine and in the marketplace many fat people feel shame some fat people find ways to cope with the shame goffman writes quote during mixed contacts the stigmatized individual is likely to feel like he is on having to be self-conscious and calculating about the impression he is making to a degree and in areas of conduct which he assumes others are not the stigmatized individual is likely to feel that the usual scheme of interpretation from everyday events has been undermined his minor accomplishments, he feels may be assessed as signs of remarkable and noteworthy capacities in the circumstance persons who have a particular stigma tend to have similar learning experiences regarding their plight and similar changes in conception of self a similar moral career that is both cause and effect of commitment to a similar sequence of personal adjustments close quote fat people aren't supposed to talk about fat until after they have lost the weight before and after before when I was a child they told me I was only a girl I talked like a child too much they said shut up I thought like a child why why why why I reasoned like a child it must be me I'm not enough when I became a woman a good girl I put childish things behind me and knew my place now we see through a glass darkly for I am lost even to my own reflection but then we shall see face to face how will I reclaim my image and now these three childlike things remain faith in who I am hope in who I can become love the most childlike thing of all but the greatest of these is love I learned to love me again and I did not express angers my black woman's anger is a molten pond at the core of me my most fiercely guarded secret I know how much of my life is a power-feeling woman is laced through with this net of rage how to train that anger with accuracy rather than deny it has been one of the major tasks of my life close quote come a time when you won't even be ashamed if you are fat Frank Zappa I was 16 in 1969 my family had moved from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Wheaton Marrow there were hippies in my school major culture shock I heard all the early hippie revolution feminist movement ideals with an open and excited heart and I believed shaving my armpits and legs I stopped spending an hour every morning putting on makeup and I stopped dieting I cast off the patriarchy and the establishment and I believed in the Woodstock nation my early decisions to accept my body were political and hopeful the mechanics of living in a world not quite keeping up with those ideals were awkward as a fat person I can feel invisible walking through the world at the same time I can feel like a target who can at any time inadvertently walk into a shooting range I learned how to move through the streets ignoring stairs and jeers I lived and clenched strange people on the street shooting slurs at me seemed inevitable on the culture I experienced them with as much distance as I could sustain but people whose politics or spiritual pursuits I respected asked me well intended inept questions about when was I going to lose the weight or didn't I think it would be easier to love if I lost the weight or although they loved me for who I was and didn't mind if I was fat they often worried about my health didn't I want the healthy never getting that being fat was a part of who I am not separate from everything else that influenced my awareness or experience and not necessarily a bad thing the dismissive quality of these conversations escaped these friends since they so unconsciously accepted the paradigm of that is ugly that is bad, that is wrong all the while trying to expand their awareness lose their preconceptions grow into authentic original minded big souls I was in a new age hippy self-help group once charming them with my humor a man decided to confront me about my weight his confront was in the form of telling me that he was not attracted to me suddenly I felt like I was in a sports bar I went from affable entertaining sweet loving earnest into flame I could feel myself becoming a torch I was contempt, murderous enraged I was completely uncomfortable with the feeling it seemed out of context with the proposed spiritual meter of the day my attention about losing the weight was that it happened as a natural function of my quest for wholeness I have lost and gained weight relative to changes in lifestyle but I have never been that this is my body to live in this body requires a posture I have to stand firm in my self-acceptance sometimes it is a peaceful stance but more often I burn I use the outreach I feel over anyone's disapproval of anything I am to fuel me energetically especially in those conversations when I think I can have my guard down and I am taken by surprise I reject the idea that being thin is the body of realization or awareness or beauty it is an act of rejection not because I need to put energy into it but because I live in a culture so help-end when selling me into the slavery of clients to have to fight to accept something as elemental as the size of your past is crazy making the thought of it makes me want to explode I want to stand naked in the streets screaming take this shame that you try to feed me and swallow it back into where you created the misbegotten notion of what a body is for my preference would be grace my effort is toward a posture of dominion of owning all of who I am I am no longer uncomfortable with my rage but I occasionally grow weary of it I hear the joke by the late night talk show host I see the advertisement for the weight loss program presented with an angelical zeal I sit uncomfortable in the two small seats in the public space I hear the giggling jokes of teenagers on a corner I rage ticked off anger boils within me steaming, simmering too hot to touch I'm sure pressure is building like my mother's steam cooker it ticks off chattering erratically, rhythmatically I am afraid afraid of what? if I get angry I won't be loved do I destroy with my feelings? anxiety worry I don't know what to do do there must be something I can do I find myself these days not only feeling but insisting on my right to feel like brown rice in a slow cooker I fill my spaces in fluffy swells from hard grains I puff up to soft chewiness somehow I stopped regarding my pain as something to fight to avoid pressure built up like a steam cooker ticking off, chattering erratically I am mad no longer crazy but angry Audrey Lord also wrote quote the white fathers told us I think therefore I am the black mother within each of us the poet whispers in our dreams I feel therefore I can be free poetry coins the language to express and charter this revolutionary demand the implementation of that freedom close quote my sighs newspaper ink on my fingers mourning milky taste in my mouth from wet sidewalk to hot department store up the escalator I pass beds that aren't beds the lingerie department has gone white wicker unmentionable garden I search for my usual rack a sales lady ignores me wraps lacy purchases crisply pulls carbons from a credit card receipt she says we don't carry your size so I said my size does not need to be carried my size danced all night then swam in the gulf all morning I'm like you lady from marrow to eyelash but more so and I don't apologize for my size a special thank you to Tish Parmalin who wrote rage and recorded it for this show and to Debra Ile who wrote my size and allowed us to record it for this show before and after and ticked off were written and performed by Patty Thomas Tish's website is www.fatshadow.com Debra's website is www.iyall.com You have been listening to First Person Plural because how people get along with each other still matters First Person Plural is a show created for community radio by Carl Wilkerson and Dr. Patty Thomas to examine social and organizational issues Music for First Person Plural is performed, composed and produced by Carl Wilkerson except where noted For more information about First Person Plural Dr. Patty Thomas or Carl Wilkerson visit our website www.culturalconstructioncompany.com or email us at fpp at culturalconstructioncompany.com