Good afternoon, everyone, and particularly to Stefan Turenko, who's our guest today, as you all know. He needs a little introduction. Currently, he's head of the European Commission's mission to his own native country in Brussels. But he's best known, I think, to everyone as being one of the leading people on the EU side during the Brexit negotiations. He has written a book, which many of you have already read, or will read shortly, have been brought in here today. He's going to speak to us today in a personal capacity rather than his official capacity, but it will be on the record. So without further ado, Stefan, we're very interested to hear about the book and about how things are going. Thank you. Well, thank you, Dan, and thank you to the IIEA for the kind invitation. Last time, I was here on December 7, 2022, I think, five years of the joint report. So I'm sure I'm speaking to an audience which is very well informed on the Brexit. As Dan said, I speak in a personal capacity as the author of this book on how the EU got Brexit done. I want to spend just a few minutes on explaining why I wrote this book, not so much for explaining my personal reason, but I think it has a general meaning and a general significance as well. I mean, there are a couple of motivations for, in fact, of why I wrote this book. And some of them maybe I thought about exposed, to be very honest, because sometimes you want to write the book because you see there is a book in a certain story. But I think it was very important that we put the historical record of how we as EU tackled this issue irrespective of which country decided to leave, which is that Article 50 which had never been used, an unprecedented challenge, especially because it was a big country I decided to leave, I would say, with all the ramifications that entailed for budget and economics and all the rest of it. So that in itself is an important motivation. But secondly, I wanted to put on the record what the EU did in the negotiations and why in view of the dominance, what I at least feel of British sources on Brexit, at least viewed from the continent in terms of the EU. In the stakes, that's probably normal. But these British sources are very much embedded in a British political discourse, obviously, that's just a natural phenomenon. But underlying that discourse was always that feeling of injustice being done, of the fact that our very simple motto that membership mattered and that therefore advantages of membership were reserved for members only, was constructed as a punishment by the EU. And my book refutes quite extensively why that was not the case. And quite a bit of misunderstandings that underlie the story in the book come from that attitude, I think, which was certainly present in the minds of some of the ministers in Theresa May's government, underestimating the basic fact that leaving the EU meant the loss of political influence and also meant losing the advantages in economic terms of membership. But the third reason I alluded to that when I said, to some extent it's also an ex-post kind of thing looking back, history is one thing, but the story, which is etymologically connected to history, the story was just there. I mean, I see a few old friends here, journalists from Brussels, who have covered this extensively in Brussels. It was a lot of political drama on the Westminster side, which then, of course, trickled down to the talks between the EU and the UK in Brussels. A lot of illusions or delusions, I would say, also on the Brexit side, which informed that political drama. Johnson's promise in the campaign that a better deal would come than Cameron's settlement. The fact that ministers of Theresa May's government said that in economic terms nothing had to change because of Brexit, because Brexit was not about economics, it was leaving the political project as if one could separate this. And of course, a much more political and emotional debate in Westminster and in Britain compared to the more surgical approach, I think, that we adopted in Brussels or something called managerial. And so the fact that there were two stories, one in London and one in Brussels underlies the construction of this book and how I constructed this book. Incidentally, David Frost wrote a review of the book in a magazine called The House, which is a magazine for parliament. And very interestingly, and as some other people in the UK, call it a rather dry account. And others have said that, British journalists. And then if you look at what the EU reviews or critiques say, they find it that it's full of fascinating detail. Lots of, and well, apart from the nice laugh that it provokes, I think that underlying is a very serious point about how the stories were very different in London and in Brussels and how there was a clash between politics and a much more dryer, rule-oriented, managerial, perhaps approach to some of the issues we were faced with. Of course, there were nuances and differences between capitals. And certainly in Dublin, the importance of Brexit was very different from other capitals in the EU, I could say generally speaking. But not in the basic understanding of the meaning of Brexit, and that was a basic misunderstanding between London and the EU or between London and Brussels, at least. And so the book is for me also, and that's the fourth motivation. And the main one, from the EU side, because I tell the story from the EU side, is to explain that extraordinary power of the United EU in these negotiations, which enabled also Ireland as a member to protect one of its vital national interests. And Michel Barnier was a French politician, often got a comment in smaller member states, I'm not referring to Ireland, how they appreciated how he stood up for the Irish interests in these negotiations. And that was watched very carefully by some other smaller member states of the EU. And so it's very nice to be able to say a few words on the book here in Dublin in that perspective. And so I want to give some considerations first on the unity of the EU. I want to say a few things on negotiations. I would like to say a few things on fast forward and to today and where we are and how a number of things affect the discussions today. And still very much underlying those two different perceptions, those two different stories are still present today in my view. And I want to conclude with Windsor and the TCA and where we are today and what we can expect going forward. So that's a bit the menu of what I want to offer to you. And so the first point is on the EU unity, which is a theme, of course, throughout the book. I don't explain this by looking at us in the first place in the commission. I don't explain this by saying, oh, this is an achievement of the commission or of Michel Barnier of Junker of underlying who succeeded Junker. It goes much deeper than a working method and then a certain negotiation approach. We have to think back about the year 2016, June 16, when the referendum happened, came after years of terrible divisions between member states on the Euro crisis and the sovereign debt management in some countries, including an island obviously, post financial crisis. With then the Greek referendum in the summer of 15, with a near Brexit, the word that gave birth to Brexit, I think, is Brexit. And then the migration crisis of 2015, the virshafindas of Merkel and the tensions between member states on solidarity for hosting Syrian refugees in the midst of that civil war back then. And so when Brexit happened, that shock, I think the leaders, the EU leaders, the political leaders, the members of the European Council took their political responsibility to say we cannot let ourselves be divided by Brexit and we cannot tolerate or permit the fact that Brexit would become an existential challenge for the European Union, which it could have become and which some observers back then said it would become. Of course, they committed to a renewed deeper integration, a roadmap, brought Islam at a time, we may have forgotten about that, but then sometimes the EU adopts roadmaps to reassure itself that it is going forward. But it's also, and what I wanted to say about that was this was very clear in Bani's first tour of capitals, that decision, political responsibility to say we have to stay united. When some prime ministers told us, I will set aside certain sectoral interests that I have in terms of my economy for the higher sake of staying united and unity. I think that was quite remarkable. The other factor was a fear of contagion, so it was a fear, was also a factor of unity, contagion of Brexit in other countries, wexit, italexit, Salvini said we should leave too, Le Pen said we need a referendum on the euro, so there was that kind of political mood back then. And an immediate reaffirmation to be quite tough on the single market integrity, the four freedoms, no cherry picking and all the things that you know very well. And that's, to some extent, a preservation of economic interests, which political scientists then use as an explanation for why the EU acts as it does, but Brigitte Leffen, Irish political scientist, has said that it goes much deeper than that and I agree with that. She published a book recently, a co-authored book on the Brexit story too, where she says that it is the political solidarity, and I quote her there, which is very important, not just the economic interests. And for me, that is indeed, was there from the beginning, whether it would hold as a different story, but from the beginning it was there. And indeed, it helped, and there's one thing that strikes me when I think back about that, and it concerns Ireland again, is when we came close to no deal with 2019 with Theresa May and the political drama, and then Johnson succeeding May, and the do or die, ditched the backstop, and all those things. That member state just kept firm in support for Ireland and what Ireland wanted out of the negotiations. And so even when he came close to no deal, which would have been economically more damaging, obviously, that political solidarity held and was very strong. I think that's important. So that political choice was there. And then a shared understanding, but then I come closer to what we did in Barney esteem, a shared understanding of how we would organize and tackle these negotiations through one voice and through a certain method that we can discuss, but a method that basically allowed a constant interaction between us and the member states. Now, all of that is not sufficient, in my view, to explain the unity. It explains why the unity emerged in the very beginning in this midst of this crisis feeling and fear of contagion, and we can't tolerate that this becomes an existential challenge. Sustaining the unity is something that has to be explained differently, in my view. These political choices stayed, political solidarity stayed, but I think on top of that, we in the commission then took some crucial decisions that helped solidify and sustain that unity. And the first one I want to mention is the unprecedented transparency that we practiced in these negotiations. There was part of my brief, in a way, in the task force. And just as one example or two examples, in May 17, this is one month before we started negotiations, we published a full position paper of citizens' rights, financial settlement. This is what the EU wants. This is our position, basically. And we published it, which is a bit unusual in negotiations, that you disclose your cards, so to say. And with Frost later on, March 2020, and we had a very bad first week of negotiations on the new relationship, we decided to put out a full text of an agreement, the way we saw it based on our mandated member states gave to us. Now, that transparency was part of what we said we need to feed the public debate, and it was all true and important, but equally important was that we wanted to avoid that information would be manipulated by certain people in the Brussels or the wider EU system or the UK system. And so we wanted to avoid, in terms of that unity of the 27, that prime ministers would say open a certain newspaper and discover what was happening in the negotiations or in Brussels or what Barnier was thinking. The second factor was our constant risk management on that unity. All in the interest of time, I won't elaborate on that, but we were constantly vigilant on possible risks to unity and acted accordingly. And the third factor is that we created, we, the Council, Parliament, the Commission, a very symbiotic way of working together, which I have rarely or perhaps never seen in terms of interinstitutional work between the Commission and the Council and also the Parliament, but in particular between the Commission and the Council. We had hundreds of meetings, so that's three or four every week, where we pre-briefed, debriefed, discussed with Brexit delegates as they were called, delegates from each perm rep, what was happening, what could happen. We also called such meetings at crucial moments where we anticipated what we thought the UK would propose to already start discussing with Member States how to react. So that symbiosis between Council and Commission was an important factor of unity. And the fact that we practiced that transparency and also on top of that shared all our communication material with Brexit delegates. But within Member States, these Brexit delegates played a very important role too, because they ensured the sectorial coordination within their ministries, within their governments rather, between the ministries to make sure that all ministries in national governments knew what the general Brexit approach was. And finally, I think the continued respect by Member States for what they had decided, which was never to circumvent Michel Barnier and his team and the Commission in the negotiations. Again, that was decided in December 16, it wasn't clear if that would hold in December 16, but it did. Of course, there are many talks between Berlin, London, Paris, London, Dublin, London, obviously. And those talks are very important, but we were always debriefed on what these talks contained, which is also quite unique at Member States, debriefed the Commission on what national governments among themselves are discussing, basically. That doesn't always happen in that way. And sometimes it went a bit beyond just talks, as when Leo Varadkar and Boris Johnson went for their famous walk in Liverpool, because that was a crucial moment to unlock the negotiations for what we then could call the Johnson Backstop. So in the interest of time, let me just conclude on that, interest method, but the political solidarity in Member States, I think, is much more important, sustained by a working method. Now, what also helped that unity was the confrontational approach that the UK practiced, and that galvanized the unity of the 27 in my view. Theresa May gave a speech five months before we started negotiations to say no deal is better than a bad deal. We will be a global Britain, as if Ireland can't be a global country and be a new member at the same time. So quite a bit of capitals were somewhat took an insult in that concept of global Britain back then. And you can see it in different, and I want, in the interest of time again, not to elaborate on that, obviously in the Northern Irish context. You can see a lot of that confrontational approach. I want to move to my second point, which is about lessons, maybe I shouldn't say lessons, but at least conclusions for negotiations, because I don't want to lecture anyone. And I'll be very brief on that, because I want to keep some time for the other points. There are two points I make in there. And at first point, building that confrontation, and I say that it was a mistake from the UK side, especially from the pro-Brexit UK side, to be so addicted to confrontation with the EU. It is not a way to negotiate productively, in my view, because by searching for confrontation, by threatening no deal, you don't search for common ground. And on top of that, we were often told that we were asking for the wrong things, that we were by asking for the level playing field for a trade agreement, that we were just asking for something which was not relevant for the UK. But this was a core ask on our side, as I say in the book when Vanier met Rutte on the 3rd of October 16, it was clear already for us there would never be a trade agreement, not even a minimal one, without level playing field guarantees. And so rather than resist that by Frost and his team in the 2020 negotiations, I think a more engaging approach would have been much more productive for the UK as well, but certainly also for the negotiations. And the key point to that is that in the negotiation, I think sometimes you have to be tough, and sometimes you have to confront the other party that's clear, but not all the time, and you have to engage with the core asks of the other party. And you have to create value for the other party if you want to have influence in the negotiation. And by not doing so, you deprive yourself of influence in the negotiation in my view. And related to that is then the whole issue of no deal and the no deal threats at my second kind of conclusion for negotiations, and we can discuss that. I won't elaborate that again in the interest of time, but clearly the fact that Boris Johnson threatened five times a no deal in 2019, 2020, but never took the conclusion or not even for the euphemistically called Australia model, which was actually the same as no deal in October 2020, which he had said he would do if the European Council would not give the UK what it asked for, at least if the European Council did not move. The European Council said, no Boris Johnson, it's time for you to move. They came back to the table every time. And there's a lot to be said about that, but in negotiation terms, the best available alternative to no agreement or basically what you do in case of no deal. But I don't think that was, that we were stronger on that front for sure, but also in terms of approach, I don't think it helps to threaten no deal and then not act upon that. Of course, we wanted to avoid no deal on our side, but we discussed often that we also wanted to avoid a no deal. And this is not in the book, but if I think a bit back about our discussions when we came close to no deal, we discussed ways to try to avoid that because we felt that if we would never give up the single market and its integrity, but we also felt that this would sour relationships too much, lead perhaps to a trade war, fisheries war, whatever you could call it. I want to exaggerate with metaphors, but still it would have been a very difficult situation for both parties for the UK in the first place, but also for the EU. We could never give in to no deal threats, but we wanted to avoid no deal as much as we could. And we would have never walked away from the negotiations. So if I fast forward to today's situation, I think it's important for me to stress that the story in the book is still relevant today for two main reasons. One is that the withdrawal agreement and TCA, which is what the book is about, are the two core agreements that structure our relationship and that will structure the EU-UK relationship for the years to come. And for the first time ever since the last weeks, we are in a situation where both parties are committed to implement both of these agreements. So that's a really new fact that we cannot underestimate in its importance. So these two agreements are the ones that will structure our relationship. The second point, I think, why this is still very relevant for today is that we are still, in my view, in a tale of two stories, or two different stories, one in London and one in the rest of the EU. And I say that based on very anecdotal evidence, but if I share my impression of presenting this book in Brussels or in The Hague or in EU circles or with EU citizens and different things I have done. So the discussion is always an interesting case of political history. And finally, it's done and we can move on. And with many questions on what happened, the role of the UK civil service, could no deal have happened. What about Boris Johnson? What about Theresa May? What are the differences? People are very curious about what happens, but not in the sense that with a general feeling of thank God that's done. And when I'm in London, where I was last week, it's a very different reaction. From the Brexiter's side, there is still a feeling that Brexit hasn't been done. Not enough divergence, not enough to summarize Singapore on Thames kind of policies. Characterize a bit, but you know what I mean. And from the remain side, from the people who are not maybe happy with the TCA, a general feeling of this hits us negatively, how can we change this? And so this is still a very different perception and reception in terms of when we talk about Brexit today and when I present the books and so the book and so the explaining why that is different is still a very important thing today. And I hope the book will somewhat contribute to explaining also to UK audience, the rationale, and things that will never change going forward, such as the single market integrity and the number of other principles that guided us. And of course, what fuels that discussion in London is something which is very different from the EU is the negative impact that the British economy is suffering in part from Brexit, whether you discuss productivity or the impact on trade, on GDP, on investment, on labor shortages, many problems that are not only Brexit related clearly, but that in many cases worsened by Brexit, as indeed had been predicted when the decision was taken. And Maria Sefkovic said last week on trade and barriers that the more the UK will diverge, the more barriers to trade to your risk to produce. And so that negative effect may still continue while on the EU side, I think all of that has by a large been absorbed in my view. Incidentally, it will be interesting, I'm not going to venture into that, but if you look back at the predictions for the UK and for Ireland in 2017, they were more or less similar in terms of a hit of Brexit on the Irish and the UK economy. Now, the Irish economy is doing quite well, not saying that this excludes a negative effect of Brexit, obviously both can be true. But clearly, there is something there that from an economic perspective merits an in-depth analysis which may well have been done and I'm just not aware of it, but it's a very interesting observation, I think. Now, the Doomsters and Gloomsters were clearly right for the UK. It's not just on the economy, on students. If you look at, there were 100,000 EU students in the UK in 2021. There were 50,000 in 2022. Ireland seemed to have gained a number of EU students, tripled from 2,000 to a bit more than 6,000 over the last six, seven years. Germany, Netherlands, Italy have also gained quite a bit of EU students, probably as a result of Brexit because of tuition fees and visa requirements for EU nationals in the UK. So, the perception, the reception of Brexit is still very different than the EU and the UK and I think it's a very important factor to think about that when we go forward. So, let me quickly run or quickly discuss my last point and which relates to that, which is where are we and what is our agenda for the next month, so to say, or for the next, for the recent, for the coming period ahead of us, basically. Again, I speak in a personal capacity, but this is also what you can hear from people like Maroshev Kovic and others and Ursula van der Leyen, no doubt, also in Brussels. First of all, the Windsor deal. Without going into the details of the deal itself, it clearly is a game changer. As I said earlier, now we are finally in a situation where both EU and UK are committed to implement the withdrawal agreement correctly. That was not the case before for the UK. And if I come back to what I said earlier on negotiations, it is very interesting to think about the difference in 21 early 22 with 21 with David Frost and what happened with Rishi Sunak and Ursula van der Leyen. With David Frost and Boris Johnson, it was all about confrontation, non-implementation, without giving any reassurance to the EU on how the integrity of the single market will be protected. Sunak and van der Leyen listened very carefully to each other. And van der Leyen and Sef Kovic took on board the unintended consequence of the protocol, the concerns of some communities in Northern Ireland, product availability, the impact on the real life situation, so to say, of communities in Northern Ireland. All that was important, but Sunak on his side also clearly took on board the single market integrity. And so that combination of flexibilities and safeguards that is in the Windsor deal comes out of that non-confrontational approach to negotiations, which seems to be much more productive than the confrontational approach that we had witnessed in the past. As basic motivations for the Windsor deal, I would say, is first of all a concern for Northern Ireland and for creating stability and uncertainty in Northern Ireland and improve the investment climate, but also the Ukraine war has, in my view, played a very important role in that. And not just in my view, I think Ursula van der Leyen has said that publicly as well. The alternative to go to a relationship based on litigation, non-compliance, at a time when there is a war on the European continent and a need for unity would certainly have been a very undesirable situation and the risk for deterioration of the relationship was simply there. And so avoid that deterioration also through the Windsor deal and to create a closer relationship is also geopolitically very important. And to some extent, the operational cooperation we had on sanctions immediately when the war happened has also created those diplomatic and communication channels that opened the door for that better relationship and also the Windsor deal. And so it also means that we can now exploit the TCA more to the full. The TCA, which has been by and large correctly implied by both parties so far over the last two years. But now we have the opportunity to construct a horizon agreement. We're currently in talks on that. UK has joined the North Sea Energy Platform at the Austin Summit by the Belgian government of recent with Leo Varadkar was there, Grant Shaps was there for the UK. So they're on board with that. The Commission and the Merit McGinnis responsibility proposed a number and among financial services or more regulatory cooperation, which is one of the issues also people in the UK propose in terms of going forward. The whole institutional framework of the TCA, all these committees, 50 meetings I think last year is now in place. Can discuss other technical issues on technical barriers to trade and all those issues. And other shocks who knows may lead to also more operational cooperation outside of that because on sanctions again we are in a strong relationship of cooperation of sanctions against Russia. On winter preparedness for energy we activated the security of supply dialogue under the TCA because of the war. There are colleagues in the external action service are preparing with UK Foreign Office the dialogues on cybersecurity counter-terrorism. I think also that is a direct effect of the Russian war in Ukraine. And so you get a closer relationship gradually emerging very step by step under the existing provisions of the TCA. And therefore I hope that we can now finally turn the page and come to a better and closer relationship between the EU and UK because I think we said enough that Brexit was a lose-lose situation. We now have to turn that page. We're in a very different situation. There's no longer a cliff edge. So there's a new balance of rights and obligations. And we can build on that step by step to create that closer relationship in a very different negotiation environment not just because of the political mood but also structurally because what I have described in the book in terms of all the drama, the EU wants to sabotage Brexit. The EU is not to be trusted. The EU wants to punish us. All these things clearly no longer have any validity. They didn't have validity back then, but they no longer have any legitimate validity to claim as credible claims today. And so again that also made an on the UK side lead to a different approach in terms of taking this relationship forward and deepening it. Thank you. That's it. Thank you.


Good morning, my name is Jonostor Snapsson and I come from Reykjavik University in Iceland. And my idea was to present to you some of the... how does this work? It doesn't work? No, it's working. Okay. So, my idea was to present to you what I... well, monitoring systems in Iceland monitoring seismic hazard and discuss some of the values that I feel are involved in such monitoring. This is just a review of the key issues that I'm going to address. But basically, I'm going to introduce to you the current seismic networks in Iceland and there's a significance for society and industry. So, seismic networks, they differ from traditional structural health monitoring networks in the sense that they are aimed at mapping gear hazard and earthquake action and they have usually either both a wide focus on national or regional level or they can have a narrower focus on specific towns or sites or single structures through arrays or structural monitoring setups. So, these networks, they serve a multitude of stakeholders. Unfortunately, the stakeholders usually don't realize their benefits fully and therefore it's often difficult to fund the initiation and operation of these types of networks. But the information they provide is, in my opinion, essential to be able to build a safe and resilient society. So, if we just list up some of the key stakeholders as I see them, then of course we have the general population and house owners which depend on the safety and resilience of their buildings and infrastructure and also on disaster preparedness which relies on information about where the weak spots are where the hazard is most critical and how it is distributed throughout a country or a region. The municipalities, in the same way, they use the information for planning decisions and for setting building regulations similar to the state on a slightly different level. They also have planning requirements and building regulations and design requirements. And then, in the case of Iceland, the state operates insurance and reinsurance for public and private real estates. And then, of course, the major industry needs this information both for sensible site selection and design specifications and also for their insurance and reinsurance of their assets. Now, if we look at the case of Iceland, Iceland is located in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and basically the Mid-Atlantic Ridge crosses through Iceland and the tectonics are sort of controlled by the combination of plate and plume tectonics. So we have Iceland is located on a spreading zone and you see the ages in millions of annums. So in Iceland, some parts of the Iceland are zero year old and for then some parts are 10 million, 20 million. And then the age increases towards Greenland and also, of course, towards Europe. But we have, through this continuous spreading, we have, of course, both volcanic and earthquake activity. So we are being pulled apart by the American plate and the Eurasian plate by a rate of about two centimeters per year. Now Iceland and earthquakes have been recorded since around the 1900s. So we have some sporadic records from 1886 to 1927, mostly recorded, of course, in Europe or US. And then since 1927 there have been more or less continuous seismological observations. Now we have basically two sets of networks. One is, that is seismological networks based on seismometers and a strong motion accelerometer network. The earlier part of the seismological network was basically built or is composed of analog seismographs and they were installed in the 60s and 70s. And then digital seismometers were installed in the 90s. And then in 85 and we started installing strong motion accelerometers. There had been one or two instruments installed in 70, two or three, but sort of systematic network was not initiated until 1985. And all these networks were initiated by scientists, by scientists at the University of Iceland and scientists at the McGraw offices. And the initial funding came from research funds and from companies like, for instance, the strong motion accelerometer, the meteor network was supported by the national power company. But the initiation was not really a governmental initiative, although they have supported the operation to some extent. But there is these networks differ in the sense that seismological networks are basically aimed at mapping seismicity for geological purposes and they are focusing on very small magnitude earthquakes and use velocity sensors for the most part, monitoring specific frequencies to get the greatest sensitivity. Whereas strong motion networks use acceleration meters and or acceleration sensors. And the aim is to monitor strong motion for design of buildings and structures. We also have continuous GPS monitoring networks and both through some fixed stations. And then there have been regular campaigns where mobile stations have been placed on fixed points. And this is a result of two sorts campaigns, one in 1994, 2004. So 10 years apart and based on these data we can sort of map the present day geodynamics of Iceland. So what we see is horizontal velocities. So we have the north-south component, the green one, and the red one is the east-west component. The red one is the west component, the blue one is the north-east component, but the resultant component. So you see this part of Iceland is moving in this way and this part is moving this way. And we have the rift axis going through here in between. And therefore of course the seismometers are distributed more or less along this line. And I'm not going to discuss this system in much more detail, but this is what comes out of a seismological system. You have mapping of epicenters of small earthquakes which show sort of where the seismicity is the greatest. And then basically we have the Mid-Atlantic Ridge coming here into Reykjanes Peninsula. And then we have the rift zone traveling through the volcanic zones in Iceland. And then again out to the ridge which continues here. But in between we have transfer zones in the south and we have transfer zones in the north. And in these transfer zones we have strike-slip earthquakes which are the biggest earthquakes that we get. And if we reduce the amount of events by limiting the size. So this figure here shows some magnitudes of 3.5 and greater. And then we see that there are not that many big earthquakes. And the biggest ones are in the south where the red dots are and in the north on these two transfer zones. And that's why the focus of the strong motion network is in the south lowland and in the north. In the north the faulting is mostly out in the ocean. And there is just a few of the faults that actually reach the shore. So there is a different faulting mechanism basically here in the north and in the south. But there is about 40 strong motion stations operating now providing ground motion. And then we have some office buildings and power stations monitored for structural responses as well and bridges. Now this shows and then I forgot to mention that in two towns in Credit Gerdie here and in Pusavik here in the north we have Aris where we have a dense accelerometer network within an area of 2 or 3 kilometers in each direction. And this is from an earthquake in June 2008. And you see that the acceleration levels recorded in this town were quite significant or about 80% of G. But the fault was only about 2 kilometers from the town. And in the north we have recently installed a second RA in Pusavik. And this is actually where we expect the nest earthquake to occur and the town is located here. And the fault that we see, the activity here on the black dots and the green dots. That's actually running here just slightly north of the town, these two major faults. Now we have of course used the data that we have recorded for Mario's purposes. Such as strong ground motion modeling, seismic hazard assessment. We have been evaluated vulnerability profiles for the building population. We've used the structural data for system identification. We have observed very significant side effects at many places and etc. And of course for engineering education, not the least. And this shows the ground motion modeling results. And what we see is that we have considerably more rapid attenuation of motion than is usual for other areas. And that is, we believe, related to a young and fractured crust in Iceland. And if we look at this in a linear scale, then we see that if we are about 20 kilometers away from the fault, then we are quite safe. And we also have seen that the duration of strong motion is relatively short within the critical area. So we are talking about usually less than a 10 second duration within the 20 kilometers zone. So this is the hazard map that was created or proposed in 2004. And we see the south Iceland lowland here is the highest ground acceleration and then the northern coast here. And the biggest population is in Reykjavík, which is here. And there we have an acceleration levels of between 10 and 20 percent, or yeah, mostly less than 15 actually. And most of the data comes from these three big earthquakes that we had to win the year 2000 in the south Iceland lowland. And then in 2008, year between Kveragér and SELFOS. And in this area, there is about 10, 15,000 people. So the density of population is much greater for this earthquake here. The density of population affected by this earthquake was much greater than the density of population affected by these two in 2000. And all these three earthquakes were of similar magnitude, 6.5, 6.4, 6.3. And the first two had about 20 kilometers surface rupture. The surface rupture was not well visible for the third one. But this is a sort of a traditional pattern for seismicity in the south lowland that we get a series of events with relatively short time lapse in between. And these series of events occur approximately every 100 years. The sort of most interesting data has been available through this internet site for European strong motion data that was established in 2002, I think, by several partners through a European project. And at least this site is still active. And it contains about 3,000 processed strong motion records from all of Europe and parts of Turkey. Now in Iceland, we have a catastrophic insurance fund. It was funded in 1975 after a volcanic eruption in the Westman Islands. And it acts as an insurance company. And the purpose is to operate a catastrophic insurance which should cover damages from earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, avalanches, rock slides and floods. And basically all buildings are insured according to the valuation for fire. And we pay a fee that is 0.02% of the insured value each year. And so fire insurance is compulsory. More or less every property is basically insured by this except properties or assets owned by major industry which often choose to have a separate insurance or self insurance. But part of the infrastructure and lifelines is insured by the ICI. And in 2014, the ICI covered assets of about 60 billion euro. And of course the assistance of a fund like this increases the resilience of the society. And we have of course had, we regularly have some catastrophes in a small scale. The Westman Islands was the trigger for this, for initiating this fund. And that of course we lost a whole town of 5,000 people which has been resettled now. But by 4,000 people not 5,000, but still flourishing. But of course that was a big blow. It was about 13% of the gross domestic product. And then we have of course we have earthquakes in the north in 76. Modern ice flows, wind driven ocean flooding, storms, avalanches which are actually the events that have killed people. Other events have not been really, people have not died in the other events except the volcanic eruption. There was one person who died there. But there were about 30 people who died in this avalanche in 95. Glacier Alps was flooding earthquakes in 2,000, volcanic eruption in Eyjafjallajökull just so you know how to pronounce it. And one year later in Greenfoot. But basically these events are smaller in terms of gross domestic product. And even though the expense of the earthquakes comes close to the expense of the volcanic eruption in Westman Islands. Because of better economics it does not affect our national budget as strongly. But this graph shows sort of the payment that had been cast out in the past 10 years. And then it is because this starts in 2004 that earthquakes in 2000 or not. Or just vaguely included here. But it's the earthquake in 2008 that has been the most expensive event. But basically the fund is supposed to be able to cover a loss of 100 billion Icelandic Kronos or about 500 million euros. And it's divided into sort of own liability of 10 million. And then you have reinsurance. There is a 20 group of 20 reinsurance that each covers 1 billion Icelandic Kronos. And then the fund has collected money. So it has some capital of its own. Now it's 17.8 billion Icelandic Kronos. And then it is possible to take a loan with a government guarantee to cover the rest if needed. But as you see we have not really needed all this funds so far. And the reinsurers have not done so badly. We have been paying premiums of 25 million euros for the past 10 or 4-10 year period here, 2000 to 2011. And we only claimed 23 million back. So they made profit of 2 million roughly. And of course there is a regular re-estimation of hazard and risk when the premiums are determined and the self liability. And then foreign experts come to evaluate the hazard in Iceland. And they make the right reports with risk scenarios and hazard scenarios. And often they are way off target. And Icelandic experts have had to fight with the insurance fund to correct some misunderstandings and exaggerations. And just to, as an example, not a direct example of this, but as a sort of a site example that actually has influence is that in 2000 there was a project, the SHIR project, seismic hazard harmonization in Europe operating in recently. And they produced a European seismic hazard model which is probably a very good model. But then they decided to apply it to the whole of Europe. And to do that you need to simplify the seismic sonation. And for Iceland this has catastrophic consequences because suddenly the risk in many areas is already hazard is greatly exaggerated for large parts of Iceland. We have here 50% of G and now all of Reykjavik has acceleration levels up to 50% of G and so does a larger portion of the country. And this basically comes from oversimplification of and maybe to some extent misinterpretation of the seismic sonation, appropriate seismic sonation for Iceland. And it's important to, sorry for this. And this is a comparison of two maps, one from the previous one that I show you based on Solna Zetal in 2004 which is based on Icelandic data and only considering the Icelandic tectonics. And then this is from this year, one of the sheer projects hazard figures. And then the Reykjavik peninsula is the critical one. The South Lowland is not so critical. And then they overestimate the seismicity around the glaciers which is primarily volcanic seismicity where you don't really have this type of acceleration levels and you don't have very high magnitude earthquakes. And it is particularly important to have correct seismic hazard defined for the area around Reykjavik because this is supposed to show you the population density in Iceland. And so that's the black dots basically. And about two thirds of the population live in the southwest corner of Iceland. And if we just look at the Reykjavik area then that's probably close to half of the population. And this shows the sum of insured aggregates by region. And as you see the sum is 54 for the Reykjavik area whereas it is 10 times less for most other regions. And therefore it is important to realize that in Reykjavik peninsula we have a different type of faulting than in the South Lowland. We have magnitudes of earthquake that are less than six. We have normal faulting and we have a very narrow seismic zone with shallow focus earthquakes here. And so this would be a more appropriate seismic source formation where you basically have a line here that has not experienced any earthquakes greater than four as far as we know. And the red dots are the earthquakes of six plus and in this area we have three earthquakes of six plus for the last 300 years. The green dots are the distribution of smaller magnitude earthquakes four and five, green are five, the yellow are four and those are monitored in the past 30, 40 years. So this is of importance. And it's also of importance when you are trying to attract new business into the country. We have a lot to offer. We have relatively cheap energy compared to other places. This is statistics from Verne Global which is a data center company. And we have hydroelectric and geothermal energy so we have a fairly low carbon footprint compared to many other places. But if we have unrealistically high hazard then of course new industry is not likely to be interested in settling in Iceland. But so to summarize based on the recordings that we have and experience that we have had with the strong ocean monitoring in Iceland, we can say that the earthquake hazard can be quantified as moderate on an international scale. It's fairly localized and primarily limited to the transfer zones in the south and north and the immediate vicinity. And in the south Iceland earthquakes in 2000 and 2008 all showed similar characteristics. We had considerable spatial variation in ground motion peak parameters partly because of specific side effects where we have lava flowing over ocean sediments, creating a soft layer under a stiff lava layer. We had high peak accelerations which were partly also due to these side conditions. We had fairly short duration of motion and rapid attenuation of motion which all made life which both made life easier for the structures in the area. And even though we had considerable damage to buildings and their contents and perhaps especially utility systems in the ground, these recent events demonstrated that buildings and installed equipment can reliably be designed to withstand these expected actions. And electrical and telephone utilities operated more or less uninterrupted during and after the earthquakes. So we feel that we have sampled valuable earthquake induced accelerometric data and we have applied the data for various engineering purposes which will in the future have further implications for the understanding of earthquakes in Iceland and structural design. We feel that strong motion recordings provide indispensable information for structural design and codification. And the data and the local expertise and experience developed through data monitoring, data analysis and related studies are important for the future development of infrastructure and industry through realistic assessment of the relevant geohasert and the related risk. Thank you.


Welcome everyone back to a conversation. I'm having with a an old friend colleague his name is Tom Buford and Tom, you know, I I well, let me just say what I know about our work together and then you can say more about you so Tom and I Met probably back in I'm gonna guess 2010 or 2011. Yeah, and you met through the Mutual introduction from a joint venture partners probably I'm good and So the back then we did a couple of JVs together joint ventures where You know Tom had a wonderful course that I promoted to my list. It was a I think you might I'm gonna promote it Two of yours. I think that one was Charge what you're worth I believe Yeah charge charge what you deserve and then second one was Create a course in them in a week info product weekend Yeah, yeah, so so I promoted those and then Tom also promoted my my things to his list and we both been Financially successful in the internet marketing space and we have both really seen a lot of different models What's worked and what hasn't worked? we've also seen a lot of the Manipulation in our industry and the practices that Work in terms of getting short-term Buyers sales, but we haven't felt great about it And that's why we want to have this conversation to bring light to some of those practices so that everyone who's watching this can Hope maybe you'll recognize some of this having been done to you But hopefully you will be more aware of what's being done so that you don't get You don't get the wool pulled over your eyes for for future launches and things like that and and so that you realize that There is a better way. I mean, hopefully we can expose what's What is clearly not what our conscience is approving of and what is not? What what doesn't what is not the kind of world that we want to create and then we can talk about maybe alternative Alternative ways, but even just exciting even just exposing the practices that we don't like will keep us more aware so that we can work on Practices that we do believe it and try things in a way that really is more aligned to To our higher ethics and and to how we want to treat people and how we want to be treated as well So yeah Welcome and thanks for doing this. Yeah, I appreciate it and this this really came I think pretty organically with from you and I you were the first to really step out and say, you know what? I'm gonna stop doing some of these things. We've been doing over the years and and there was never any intent to manipulate or coerce people or anything like that it just I Think we wound up doing things that just seemed normal, right? This is just what you do in marketing Yeah, and then you start thinking wow, you know, we I think when you're on the other end of it, too like buying and getting hooked on some of these big launches and all this and then you really take a good look and you and I have the opportunity to be to be behind the scenes of launches and really see what happens and Many times everything is you know above board and being done. Well, but in many many times I think things are being done to manipulate just to get more sales, right in the long term. It doesn't It doesn't serve it certainly doesn't create a market. I think that we all want to live in so that that's So you really stepped out I think I mean definitely well before me and you had the courage to do that and did this really change your business model And so I was inspired by that and kept kind of hounding you a little bit like George How's this going? You know, what's news like this is scary, right? Yeah, here.  You're you surrounded so yeah, I've certainly made some some choices that that you know have affected my income even but I feel That's okay. You know, it's it's it's good And what's I think Required what's been required of us as a result is to be more creative Launching and selling in a way that feels good to us that we really believe in and that I think as a result of Yeah, radical changes definitely if definitely decreased my income by a lot in just a couple of years that I made the changes But what I what I have noticed over time is that it's created far better relationships With people that I work with that I'm proud of that There's more referrals as a result and yeah, so that's really good But maybe just to go back to some of the practices that we saw that we We didn't agree with that we felt were unnecessary, but people were using it for short term sales Give an example of what what what what you saw? Well, the main thing and this is how I built my list was just through JV's so the joint venture and promotional partnerships Which are fine there's definitely a place for them, but what happened is I and you too I think you know we were both kind of in this circle of people that were doing joint ventures and I think what hit me was when When somebody was supposed to be promoting me and let's just say January. This is a few years ago And I was told and this is on the calendar for quite a while And then I was told in January not by this person whom I do know personally He never opted to reach out to me personally. Wow his JV manager said well Tom We're gonna have to take you on the off of the calendar unless you're in our top 10 Right, we're only we have to really limit. We're gonna promote only to our top 10, right? So from a business perspective people would say well, yeah, that's fair, right? But if you have to think about it what that means is that if you're in their top 10 It doesn't matter what you're selling. They're going to promote it And they're gonna promote it all out. And so if you're on that person's list You're getting emails from this person saying I've got this great colleague and friend who they probably don't know And because they were a top affiliate partner, right? That's why they're a great colleague and friend. That's your great colleague and friend, right? So It just really I guess for me it was is I had to start reflecting on Is this what I'm part of and by the way, I should say that the what you just said is Is the normal way that internet marketers do business So everybody who is watching this was listening to this You are on probably if you're subscribed to different email newsletters and different people's Promotions and their content or whatever you're very likely on these lists where you are just getting promoted the stuff that Of of their colleague or friend who just really promoted them as well It's all based not on Yeah, tom really, you know, you know, joe really believes in george's product. That's why he's sharing it No, no joe. It's promoting george's stuff because george Uh was successful enough in prince joe stuff doesn't matter whether joe's audience needs what george has or george's audience needs what joe has It's we're really good at copywriting and that's the key like If you're really good at copywriting meaning writing things writing Emails and web pages that make audiences salivate because it's so good like so juicy Right makes us salivate that. Oh my god. It's so good. I can I can have an easy life just by buying this product That's right. The silver bullet The silver bullet like if I if I buy this product, it'll solve these problems Guaranteed if I does it if it doesn't work. I just get my money back. How great this is There's nothing there's nothing to lose and look at all these wonderful testimonials. Look at all these people Right. Yep. You talk about who those testimonials really are but the testimonials like they're they're getting amazing results So I must get pretty good results. I mean gosh if these people are are making, you know Buy my thing and you'll make $10,000 a month and gosh, even if I made seven or eight thousand a month just by buying this system Or the solution it's great. And so Great copywriting can sell anything and I think that's also one of the problems that I have is that That's it. You know, it's like with great copywriting. It doesn't Great copywriting doesn't prove whether a product or service is good It just proves whether that person is good at copywriting. Correct. You know and and copywriting good copywriters are Very intentionally writing based on they want to tap into emotion And that's like the number one thing if I think if a copywriter said, hey, I have to keep one tool And that's it. It would be okay. How can I? How can I really tap into people's emotions because that's what people People will buy based on emotion. I think justify based on Logic, but they buy based on emotion. Yes a copy they do that. So they really oh look how your life could be And so it actually makes people I think feel more Feel worse about their certain that their current situation than they should Or than they would prior to reading that or hearing about this right because You know, this is an issue in the in the united state. Well, everyone in the world, but um as we're getting A larger gap between I don't want to talk politics here Right, but but you know, it's no it's no mystery our middle class is disappearing Yeah, Canada. I think now is is considered has the strongest middle class World not going to get into again politics or yeah, no, it's everything like this, right? Yeah, but the u.s Middle class is shrinking what happened. There's also depression rates that are going up significantly and part of this people I've seen some research say that it's this comparison between where people are to where They think they could be And so that comparison really it's like this juxtaposition that makes us really look and think poorly of ourselves Even though if we didn't want to wear this and now we're aware because of media Right because everything's on the internet. It's so easy to get a hold of And then people put out there, you know, they're kind of fake lives on social media too, you know, right No, and what what you're saying actually is I think it's really important to to to just remember to bring to light because I was um Like every year, there's a there's a world happiness day I guess that's part of the the un and the un out this report That they've done, you know studies from many countries about happiness They have like different metrics for that and and yet again this most recent report The conclusion was that Societies that are more equal economically Are happier. Yeah, and it's and just like what you're saying is if within a society There is less of people wanting what someone else has Wow, you know, it was like, oh, we all have you know the same brand of car basically People tend to be happier because there's tend to be better communities all over But yeah, what you're saying is exactly right. It's like what copywriters are doing on the internet Is that they I think what I call is they they kind of they stoke the fires of desire Yes, right and they say they say you're you're not you're not Complete your life is not Well-lived until you or your business is not is you know the one thing you must have One mistake you're making yes in your business is that you're not doing this and if you buy this then you finally Have the completion and it's and so we keep spending our money because we're thinking I I can I can buy I can buy a feeling of completion. I can buy We're not consciously thinking this But we're emotionally feeling it and that's exactly what you're saying, right? That's right. Copywriters who are good at getting us to take out our wallet and spend our money Is Creating that gap and literally. Yes Literally, this is the typical sales training. Yep And it's about the two the typical sales training is you get into a conversation Where you are doing your best to create the gap in the prospect's mind That this is where they are and this is really where they want to be don't they? Yeah, isn't that painful of a gap and you the service provider are the solution to get them from You know point a to point b so that they can be happy complete fulfilled Free from fear and comedy and and insecurity and Yeah, yeah, the conversation is supposed to widen the gap and that's right. You're supposed to You know shorten the gap, right? That's the whole that's the sales process That's these recessions to sell and all that stuff, right? That's what they're all based on Yeah, yeah, it's you know talk someone find out where they are. Why where do they want to be? Why aren't they where they want to be right in a way and you know then really agitate? That's where they talk about that's right Agitate right when that she's like let's just think about this. You know in terms of the golden rule Do we want someone to agitate us? I know Well, and if you're having me driving a Honda Right, but come on. Wouldn't you be happier if you could drive a Mercedes or a Porsche wouldn't that isn't that what you want? Like oh, man. I don't know you know now that you think about it It's like what would it make you feel like if you had a Porsche Yeah, I guess you know and so you start thinking this when you were perfectly happy driving the Honda Yeah, and And maybe you do want a Porsche and that's fine if that's what you want, but right to create this kind of false sense of what? That's where I think that's that's right. That's exactly right um I I always like to kind of bring up You know to remind us of the fact that we all believe in the golden rule Yeah, um Do treat others like how we want to be treated? And in marketing we are taught to just throw that out the door. It's like we treat people We we we instill more fear and more greed in them so that they'll buy from us now Here's the thing though The those who teach this they justify it and I'd love to hear your opinion on this they justify it tom by saying well, you're but the Having them buy from you really is good for them and so The the seller of the Porsche would say Tom Yeah, you're you're happy with your Honda, but I know you'll be happier with a Porsche Yep, I don't care what your financial situation is and that's actually part of what my my complaint is Yes With marketers is that they don't truly care about their prospects? Especially they don't care about the prospects financial situation. They just Do they think that their job as a marketer is just to sell and to make that sale successful Yes, and it's their prospects. They completely put the burden of responsibility On the prospect to say that well buyer beware the prospects Business is the prospects job is to do the due diligence suppose Diligence look at their own budget Yeah rational decision But like you've already said tom marketers what what marketers excel at is bypassing the rational Going to the emotion. Yeah but so okay, so Tom, you know I I think the Porsche is right for you. You need a Porsche. You'll be happier with a Porsche Your friends will respect you more So I think I'm going to do everything I can to get you to buy my Porsche Yeah, I mean if you could show me statistically that people are actually happier buying Porsche Right, but we know that this stuff's not true in our industry I think in the marketing the problem is that even at the highest end right even to hide the people selling the highest end stuff Um the results Frankly that the clients get Right, if you could tell me hey listen 90 of the people to go through my program get the results Exactly, even even even 60 percent Even 20 because it's probably five or ten. No, it's true. I'm probably being generous. Yeah, even at high end Uh, you know people that are investing $30,000 taking seconds out on their their home Yeah, I mean doing things that they just should not be doing right. I remember there's someone not long ago Well, actually it's been at least a year This email came out and I guess I was on their list for some reason. I wasn't after this because I promptly Unsubscribed but I knew exactly what the email was because it seemed someone else to do the same headline And it was basically are you investing in your business or are you taking your business or whatever it was? and it was something the effect of You know if you're a coach you You've got to be investing in your business just like any other company invest in their business And that means taking your credit cards and if you have to max out your credit cards You need to do this and then guess what this was doing then they're selling their their high end coaching at the at the end of this right And I'm thinking you know, I think people have Are misconstruing what it Takes to actually go and get a business loan for a business. It means having credit means having a business plan It means having actually already having some profits. You have to show some income There are things that you have to do to invest into a business Yeah, we're gonna find investors that like your idea enough. Yeah, they'll do it based on You know this this early stage So to say this this this is that's again, it's so manipulative To tell people and get really guilt them into well, gee aren't you investing in your business? And if you're a smart business owner smart business owners Invest in their businesses and they take out loans and if that means a credit card then do it And that's the kind of marketing we're talking about that we're faced with and it's It's false first off because I mean anyone says that has no idea what they're talking about in terms of what they What it takes to get a business loan. Yeah, so this is a completely false comparison, but Perioding and above Yes, and I I Sometimes I say that I hear this giant sucking sound of Money that's going all these people who should not be spending money On these fine programs and going to the top Yes going to the top the the those six seven eight figure coaches who are using this these kinds of tactics I think like a Ponzi scheme almost right right. Yeah, it's like all the money going from the bottom Get all this money and it comes up here and then some of it circulates back around right because but at the end Right, there's not enough money to support it Yeah, yeah, because there's no money being made actually being made. Yeah money being made is coming from everyone below this top person And they're spending it right that's not not saving it So so the key the key that just to complete this particular example Yeah, the key problem is that these high-end programs most of the coaching programs Don't have accurate reviews or testimonials Now everyone watching this and listening to this to Understand that when you see testimonials and social proof On someone's website, they are almost exclusively using The top One to five percent of their customers who for whatever reason succeeded with their program and oftentimes These customers who's like I bought Sally's program and now I'm making $10,000 a month because of her system A lot of times this person who was making now making $10,000 What have been making that much anyway without Sally's system or maybe Maybe she was on the verge of Changing something that is now making her successful and she's now Sally is asking her can you write a testimonial for me to say that now you're making this money or whatever It's it's not like amazon what even amazon could be gained right the reviews there Reviews now it's terrible now too so now but but but still like you were not getting We're not getting sort of unbiased reviews of these expensive programs No Yeah, in fact, I was in a mastermind. This is a few years ago I was in a small mastermind with some people I'd met at an event in 2007 in california and one of the guys in the mastermind gave a He gave a testimonial for the person that you know, we were at at this guy's event Now it wasn't this guy's fault the other guy's fault because he didn't really it wasn't really privy to how this Came about but we knew because of the mastermind conversations What happened he said I made $46,000 And he did I mean he made a lot of money using the strategies that I learned from So and so this person But it was based on It was under the false pretense that he had no list to start All from scratch, but the reality is that he had a really good sized list of of uh, and high like high end like executives, right? He was an executive Uh, coach And so he started this new thing this kind of info product, you know information marketing thing Had a launch made some really good money. And so it seemed like oh from scratch I just started because he just started this product, right But he'd been building this business for a long time and that also was a lot and that that alludes to what you were saying too is that Some of these people that give the testimonials they make they might be making a million dollars right now And they know this person and you know this launch partner and they say hey, I made you know, 30 000 last month Trying this guy's strategy, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the actual revenue that normal months I mean not even a normal month. I mean that's just like uh, just yeah, they tested something and they've got a huge list and Yeah, so maybe that's an extreme example and that's not all that's going on but it that's that is definitely part of Pretty common honestly Tom because I when I was using those kinds of tactics back in 2010 2011 I remember having a client who used my social media system and earned $10,000 And I used that testimonial when I but when I suspected I didn't see just because she gave me a testimonial I was like really excited, but I kind of suspected that actually her business is such that It wasn't that big of a deal that she made $10,000 and I didn't like to dig into it because I didn't really want to see And you know, I wanted testimonial to to share and you know, I of course I look back and I said well gosh I'm I'm glad that I'm coming out of that and not using those kind of tactics anymore So so I'd love to switch gears if you're interested and talk about because I know a lot of We've been talking a lot about what the things that we don't want to do. Yes So now let's talk about all right. What is a better way or what are we experimenting with? What are we? Seeing that others are doing that that that are honorable or that the things that we are doing that We feel good about That are working or have a good potential of working any any Anything you want to start with there? I'll say just something I did recently Triggered a really positive response from some people and so this is what's going to turn some people off I made no money directly from this thing, right? So I think that we have to be thinking long term So yeah, I have been and I've been doing this right doing these webinars where it's get people to sign up You're going to share, you know three tips and then you're going to sell your course at the end Right, that's it great. It's a great formula. It can work Um the problem like I see a lot of people doing this and they're talking about themselves for 20 minutes and Yeah, I kind of share some content, you know, yeah, so even if I'm doing that I'm always sharing content that people can take like you don't have to buy anything you can take this But the other day I'm still getting kind of uncomfortable with that too Even though that's so many people doing this now and yeah every time I see it's another opt-in for a webinar And they're not going to give me any information, right? They're just going to sell me their course at the end and it's just becoming This Scene of this, right? So I'm going back to the negative totally The time and I have to say the reason why You don't think these free webinars giving you information Is because you have really been around the block. I mean You know, we haven't done a deep intro of you, but You've been in the standard of marketing Uh Industry longer than I have. Um, I mean you were mentioning 2007. I didn't start to 2009 Yeah, uh, so you've been longer and and you've really studied a lot of different systems So a free webinar isn't impressive to you, but it might be impressive to Can you be like, oh my god, I didn't know that Yeah, but I still try to I still try to see if they're at least sharing information because I have no like I don't have to learn anything but as long as we're sharing information, but when it's kind of these Yeah, they're uh, they're just building credibility for themselves, right? Yeah, I mean it was it's it's trying to sell you can tell other they're seeding their proof because now I see all the stuff too Like oh, they're just seeding their program. They're not giving anything anyone can use Yeah, some of them there's some also webinars. They're giving a fantastic information So it's not everybody by by any means right but what I did the other day I just did a webinar and I said hey Um, I just sent an email out to my list I no one had to opt in and I just said I mean got some really good information I think you guys are gonna love I have absolutely nothing to sell I just told them I said this is and I said I have nothing Against selling from a webinar. I think that that's right place at the right time. That's a great opportunity Yeah, I'm just not doing it in this particular webinar, right? And so it was just pure content and I had people throughout just like wow, this is This is unique. Yeah, and uh, I think I've got her email somewhere I wish I should have thought about pulling it up I got an email from someone who I'd never been in contact with before and it was just a very heartfelt thank you like While you've kind of Renewed my faith in in the internet world. Yes from this and I'm sure I've done You know or we'll do some things that she's not so happy with but But that was it really goes to show that people they're really Wanting this they're they're needing this they're wanting this they're Desiring getting some honest information without having to give their email address or without having to buy something at the end and of course again You know, yeah, you should be thinking of building your list and doing some of these things. I'm not against that personally, but it's uh When it's just to kind of tease people to withhold and you don't give anything of real value until they buy that that to me is Yeah, genuinely. Yeah Yeah, absolutely. And you know what I want to I I agree with you wholeheartedly and I think it's worth emphasizing the point that taking the higher road Is a longer term project Yeah, and and see that's the thing about well What what's sustainable? Right. What's sustainable is typically more challenging to do. Yes more patience. Yes, you know the things that are That work very very quickly And we could talk about this right so like things that work very quickly are usually burning a bridge Or going against what our conscience is telling us to do and Um, and here's why here's why I believe it works quickly It's because human beings want to trust We want to trust each other and we tend to take things and face value I think more and more people are more skeptical of marketers Um, but even with the what the what the internet is so new I mean people are skeptical when I see a billboard, you know billboards have been around so long that we don't go Oh my god, the billboard says this that must mean that must mean it's not true. People don't trust ads They don't trust ads but people still unfortunately trust emails and they trust testimonials and things like that because it's still too new and so That's why it's working working to make sales is because People lie essentially through writing You know just like the different things you've already exposed false pretent etc They lie and then our marketers lie and then we buy it because we think that they must be telling the truth And that's what makes themselves faster when we start telling the truth now You know, then it takes people that the truth is almost always much more nuanced less hyped up And so here's the truth and the truth is very much more steady and calm and real like concrete And then you've got the hype which is in comparison much louder. Yes more exciting Yes, right and so therefore people these old promises Full promises and so people tend to buy the hype Yes, and the truth the hype of course goes away eventually the truth is still there And so for those of us who want to do business from a place of truth and love, I would say We need to be willing to stay For the long term and just stay around really to keep telling the truth and you know, it's not easy I'll tell you it is not easy But it's worthwhile and I'm I've been telling the truth now I would say for about at least two years I'm not I was lying before but I've been I've been earnestly Being as transparent and radical as I've since 2014 And only now honestly, tom am I seeing You know three years into it into my truth-telling experiment am I starting to see the results people are coming back and system Like, you know, I mean I get more loyal referrals now than I did ever before but it took me a while It took me a lot longer and before however We can for those of you who are able to tell the truth for a while and be okay with that This is really important and really Honorable and and and useful path Now let's talk about for those who need to Build up their business relatively quickly And I would say that you're you're really, you know, you're really smart at this and you've helped a lot of people do This kind of thing and build this more quickly And I don't know what which part of it you want to talk about you could talk about so much but earlier on you were Before we started recording you were talking about your Sort of something you're coming back to about referral marketing. I don't know if you want Going to another bit. Yeah. Well, so one thing and this is one of the areas that I am talking less about and and that's Creating online courses because I've been doing a lot of online course sales and and yeah Made a lot of money selling courses right and it's so cool when you Webinar and someone promotes you and you make three thousand bucks from making ten sales of a three hundred dollar course. That's not a huge Feet if you have started building a list if you have something that's proprietary that you can package Yes problem is that there's a lot of steps involved to getting there And so most people that are that are out there that I'm running into They're coming to me for help creating an online course or an info product and I'm trying to talk them out of doing that because They need four or five clients Right now. That's what they need and And so there's so for me. I think you know that the main thing is you know build that base that full practice first If you're a coach or you're a consultant you're a trainer Yeah, which I think most people listen are Make sure that's in place before Looking at some of these other strategies these tactics where it's starting to utilize technology because technology Can save you or Or sink you I mean it can really you can get overwhelmed in the technology but the one thing that doesn't require technology is Building up a business based on referrals Which are having conversations which gets us back to Being human right and connecting with people not hiding behind a computer right and Serving people through your private work one-on-one You don't need a lot of technology. You don't even need a website. You could have a profile on linkedin Yeah, and connect with people who could make potential referral partners and take someone out to coffee. So What this is and this is something I'm starting to do more and that's Sitting down with people who might who I might be able to help too because it has to come from really you should be Sitting down and saying hey, listen. I don't know what we can do But would you like to have a cup of coffee?  Is there anything I can do? I can you know try to connect to some people that might be able to help you with something Is there something that you're you know, you're looking for in your business and just try to be helpful Yeah, maybe you don't have anything for them But you're just having a cup of coffee or it's a phone conversation. It doesn't have to be face-to-face And when it comes to to be your turn Be open and ask, you know say listen. Well, I build my business based on referrals and I am looking for Uh for people who are so this is what you have to have your marketing message down And so we're going back to marketing but you do have to be pretty clear. Yes talking to somebody You have to know what it is that you're looking for And so one example one area that I'm Moving into is helping construction companies because my dad was a contractor me struggled with marketing, right? So I'm looking here in the Atlanta area to help contractors construction companies with their marketing messages Yeah It was strategic planning. So if I'm sitting down talking to somebody it could be a vendor That serves the construction industry And I say well, listen, I'm starting to build a network of contractors I'm happy to put you to uh in touch with some of these people or maybe we can do a workshop Yeah, we invite some people in and I talk about marketing you talk about your your service that you know Yeah This is start thinking creatively about doing this and if you do this on a regular basis you get You can start building a good referral base and then of course any time you talk to a client When you're done with the conversation you should be asking them You know what was most valuable about our conversation today? And if you hear something really big like they had a really insightful Uh session with you Then don't now you're talking about client sessions, right about a client. Yeah, so this is going back So not I switched gears pretty quick there. Okay, so so for a part is now we're talking about after a client session And this is right because I I've been talking about this in my videos as well But I want to hear it from from your perspective. So after a client session So you and I had a client session george and and we're done and I say george So what was most valuable today? And I think it's good to ask that at the end of every call as often as you can think about it. Anyways, just so that they reflect Yes, and I think oh, you know what?  So if there's a big insight See you probably wouldn't do this like your first couple calls with somebody you want to work with someone for a little While start getting some progress, but if they have a really big insight like that while that was really significant You could ask them at that point. Well, listen if this is something that you really value And again, you know, I build my business on referrals and I'm wondering if you know of anybody else Yeah, could we have could I take you out for a cup of coffee? It's on me. There's no, you know, no coaching agenda or anything here And nine out of ten times you'll get someone that'll they'll say yes Or could we have a phone conversation about this next week? Right quick. I'd like to see and you can ask them if they know people You know, I think some industries are really easy to to find And some industries are really really difficult. So if you work with Women who have gone through divorce, I mean yes, there are groups out there, but that's a pretty tough Women to find but Women who've gone through divorce might be supporting other women who have gone through yeah almost certainly Have a an in-law or somebody else or yes So if you let them know, hey, I am really looking for more clients if you don't tell them they're never going to think of it Yeah, so you've got to be make sure that you remind them and again You don't do this every time you have a conversation, but if you have that kind of aha or if you've ended Your work with somebody and it's you know, you've had a great Time working with them, but you've it's come to a completion You could say well, listen, I'm not obviously I'm going to have a coaching spot to fill Do you know could I take 15 minutes of your time and can we talk about Maybe some people that you could introduce me to If you're not asking for referrals either, you're just asking for introductions because it's someone to say You know, there's not really any pressure in saying right Oh, yeah, I can introduce you to a couple people and they just want to ask them some questions be a coach and coach them Like it would be a great fit and you know if they kind of Stumble a little bit you can get you know get very specific Yeah It's a little takes a little practice, but it can be very effective and it doesn't have to be pushy or or off putting it all What I like about what you're the way that you're doing it is that Because typically I would just send an email Right, and you know and an email's fine. That's fine But it's better than nothing what you're doing is you're you're creating a 15 minute focused time With your client or a previous client where it is about The referral process or the introduction process and so that they're they're really taking 15 minutes to think well here Oh, yes, that's right. Bob or sue. Yeah. Yeah, that's right I could refer you that that sue is going through the exact same thing that I'm going through Yeah, and so because sometimes your clients want to refer you, but they don't know how to and that's right Yeah, and so it's like during that conversation you could say so so tom you mentioned sue is going through the same thing you're going through so you know How how might you How might you recommend me to her or do you want to talk through a little bit about what's the right way of introducing me to her? Yeah, yeah, because you want to ask them. Well, why did why did sue come up? But what makes you think that sue's a good fit right and and so that might even bring up somebody else They could say well for sue doing this, but you know, I'm also working with so it's having the conversations a great way of doing it Yeah Being a coach and just asking them like asking open-ended questions not yes. No like ask open-ended questions You know like why do you think sue's a good fit? Well because sue does a bnc Oh, wow. You mean she belongs to this group. I wonder if they're looking for a speaker Yeah, you know anyone there that might be able to bring in a speaker because I'd love to go in and so it can also Other things that and that won't happen from an email But email is great But if you can get them on the phone or especially face to face it depending on the nature of your business that can work Well, I'm liking this because the email can be a follow-up tool Yeah, uh, you could even prepare them for the call too, but it could certainly be a follow-up tool Um, some people are gonna have be uncomfortable. Frankly. Yeah, right And so maybe if email is is the best thing that you can do right now that that's fine It's better than doing absolutely nothing so, um, let's talk about the reality of implementing something like this and I we were mentioning some of this before our recording started as well. It's like some people think you know My service is so good or they think well marketing should be easy. So I'm just gonna post a facebook posting Asking my my network for referrals and that's what I did. I did that last I did that three months ago And you know, I got a few clients maybe or maybe I did And that's it. Yeah, that's all they do or that's that's what they or I'm gonna post on linkedin Or I'm gonna send an email to 15 people and then that's what I did last time And I didn't get any clients or I got a few clients and now now what? Yeah, what is the reality of? Doing referral marketing effectively how much do we need to be doing? What's your opinion? Well, it depends on where someone is in their business. So if somebody has no clients There's no money coming in. Yeah, if they can do it They should be spending Then 40 to 60 hours a week should be spent marketing period Like it or not. I mean that that's Yeah, and see this is the thing these non magic bullets. Yes, they sound terrible It's actual work. It's like, you know, the reality is that you've got to work and anyone that's ever hit any real success And we know it's like some of these guys you see it seems like they're, you know These overnight success what's like the expression like the overnight success took 10 years to get there. That's right but it's There's no such thing as an overnight success and and if they are there's something shady Yes, man. Tom, I just have to say you and I have a combined Obviously 15 plus year Yes, marketing and business just in this.  There's there's real quick There's a company here in jord used to be well, they're all over the country. They were bill bill heard Chevrolet, so I used to do automotive paint repair. Okay. It's my first business. I own from 1999 to 2005 Wow So I did on-site paint repair dealerships cardboards I had a really good business here But I was I had started having some health concerns related to the job. So I got out And I knew some of these guys that bill heard these sales guys and they were selling junk that they had cars that they were Lying about Damages and and all sorts of things. There were somehow they're like manipulating car facts and they were doing some really shady stuff And some of these sales guys they were really brazen Like they would admit to some of the vendors and some of us and I'm doing work on some of these cars I'm seeing stuff. I'm like, this is not what you guys are advertising, you know, wow and um Eventually it caught up to him. There was something else that bill heard I think it wound up being a tax issue But this guy had dealerships. He had a race car team. I mean he was no longer involved In his you know personally in his in the car business, but Incredibly wealthy it folded every single dealership they had Wow, I think it's just that one thing. It's just if they're doing this they're doing other things too, right? How you do one thing is how you do everything. So yeah it's um Just some shady stuff going on and and it's it's pretty rampant in the car business anyway It's harder to get away with now, but right um I went to go do work on a car one time and I saw it they were doing It's when they were selling cars on ebay back then right now and so I go out And it's uh, it's a black Lincoln And I went on to ebay and I actually I saw this car. I'm like, oh wow. Look at this car And uh, I'm like wait a minute. Isn't this car I'm supposed to go in and do work on Oh Perfect and I go in and it's just in terrible shape the bumpers are in awful shape and I asked the The ebay sales guy said what's up with the the picture? He's like, oh, I just photoshopped him because I know you're gonna do a good job Oh, man So before the work was done he photoshopped all the work that it would be impossible. I mean I'm working outside It's like there's You know, yeah, yeah, that's the kind of stuff. So you just have to and It's amazing But so these kind eventually this stuff catches up to you. It doesn't matter like well heard. They're out of business, right?  I guess but yeah Yeah, no, it's just can't Yeah, and and I mean looking at my own business, right on the kind of stuff I was doing again, I was I was probably much better than most of my peers Or these less I wasn't I wasn't willing to do some of the stuff my peers are doing but I still was I was still doing things that were giving me more overnight success type of things and I couldn't like my conscience would not allow it anymore. So I feel like one way or another Um, whether it's people finding out Or you coming to terms with your own actions You you won't be able to do it anymore and you'll have you'll you'll end up, you know, kind of paying for it For for years to come or you know, it's you have to rebuild and so it's like why not just build from the beginning with with truth telling with well like we've been talking about relationships because I think that that's the That's the cost that I think a lot of people aren't willing to pay is to build relationships Uh, right to build relationships to have those referral conversations Oh, I hire George. I hired Tom. They're they're marketing whizzes. They can just Make my messaging perfect and we'll start it online and never have to talk to somebody. That's right. Yeah, it doesn't happen that way Yeah, so it'd be great. I mean you can hire help people to help out But you still have to I think it's your and especially if you're just starting out Right and and also always spend time for marketing. This is the thing too I learned this from a guy that I've done some training with and very straight up guy Andrew nightlake in Florida. He does executive coach training And he said his his definition of a full practice is three days a week And he said because one day should be creating content and the others should be marketing It's marketing could be it's like always he said you never forget marketing And it doesn't necessarily mean that it's you know on friday your marketing It could be every morning. You're doing marketing So meaning three days a week of client services. Yes Like like tuesday wednesday thursday client services monday then would be creating content friday would be Getting referrals or yes marketing. Yeah. Yeah, so and when he says content That's not necessarily a blog post. He really believes in creating proprietary information like coming up with your own frame More coming up your own really working on that proactively. Yeah, and then Teach other people to do what you do and start really building a business that that is a business Just your your personal time writing books. This guy has I don't know how many books He's but he said it's one of the superpowers. He can write a book and a good. I mean he has Good stuff. Yeah, it's he's very He cuts right to the point. I mean he knows how to how to do that That's right and and I believe that we we each have a superpower It comes to content creation some people are great at videos some people are great at writing or or can Can soon become good Or at it because of the background they've had it's like there's some methodology that we each can pursue and become good or great at Become our superpower and that's that's yeah Yeah, it could be that someone likes to talk or likes to be interviewed So it could you know if you don't like to write or you don't know how to get your ideas out Have a friend or a colleague interview you about what's right and then that oh, wow all these things will come out And then yes, so there's there's yeah get creative with it. Yeah, that's awesome Uh, well, there's a lot more we can talk about Um on a lot things like business models and things like that So we'll kind of uh, we'll we'll touch touching that in another conversation, but I just thank you for Thank you for taking the time to do this. It's no thanks I definitely think we should revisit this and I know today was this was kind of a Let's get all the stuff off of our head because you and I've been talking like oh, this is driving me nuts Yes, yeah, so it's it's a little event. This is I guess this is kind of a rant Um, but I think we can really provide some good strategies for people Because I don't want people to get discouraged thinking they'll never build their business You can that just do the right thing and if it feels bad Uh, one I'll I'll say this too like if someone's a coach or they have some life experience There's a book. I'm reading called uh the message of you By judy carter That's a great book. I've actually been through it. I'm reading it again But this is a she she Give some really good insights on how to take your personal story And get it out there and get paid to be a speaker. So for some it could be You know, what if you got paid? $2,000 $3,000 to do a speech and one of those a month. Yeah, and you know, it takes time There's working. Yes, but that could be something that you added to coaching and In speaking you can give as much as you as you want. You don't have to hold anything back. Right, you know, you don't Do a brain dump, but yeah But there's there's structure here and you can give people some really good insights That's one thing people could think about too is what if you were getting paid to speak that could be part of your income And so you're getting back and you're also getting uh compensated. So yeah, just things try to think creatively about That's a that's a good recommendation. I'll have to look that book up. So Just to close off the recording part of this, um You have any How how would you like people to contact you or reach out to you or find your find your stuff? They can go to tombufordmarketing.com Tombufordmarketing.com or email at tom at charge what you deserve.com. It's my main email And that's uh, that's the easiest way. So just yeah, simple right on right on This has all been like you interviewing me.  So and get this. Oh, yeah. Yeah, um my website georgecow.com Uh georgeco.com has all my my content. I put I I'm I've been in the rhythm of posting three to five new Videos on my facebook fan page Every every week actually and and then I send it out via my my email newsletter. So check that out And it's good stuff. Yeah, a lot of videos. Yeah, thanks. I'm gonna stop recording now. I'm looking forward to do another one with you Same here. All right. Thanks George


Welcome to Scientific Notation. How can I convert a number larger than one to scientific notation? Below you see both large, ordinary numbers and numbers written in scientific notation. The approximate distance that light travels in one year, called a light year, is 9 quadrillion 450 trillion meters. The student pictured below has three thoughts. That large number is very difficult to read and very inconvenient to write. Expressing it in scientific notation would be much simpler. How can I convert it to scientific notation? To convert a number larger than one to scientific notation, follow these three steps. Step 1. Move the decimal point so that one, and only one, non-zero digit is to the left of the decimal point. Drop all unnecessary zeros. Step 2. Count the number of places you would have to move the decimal point to get it back to its original position. That number is the power, or exponent, of 10. Since you have to move the decimal point to the right, which is the positive direction on a number line, to get it back to its original position, the power of 10 will be positive. Step 3. Write a multiplication problem with the new decimal number from step 1, being multiplied by the power of 10 from step 2. For example, let's go back to that large number that represents the approximate distance light travels in one year, a light year. Step 1. Move the decimal point so that one, and only one, non-zero digit is to the left of the decimal point. Drop all unnecessary zeros. This gives us 9.45. Step 2. Count the number of places you would have to move the decimal point to get back to its original position. That number is the power, or exponent, of 10. Since you have to move the decimal point to the right, which is the positive direction on a number line, to get back to its original position, the power of 10 will be positive. We count 15. This means 10 to the 15th power. Step 3. Write a multiplication problem with the new decimal number from step 1, being multiplied by the power of 10 from step 2. 9.45 from step 1, times 10 to the 15th power from step 2. Now try these. Congratulations! You've completed converting large numbers to scientific notation.