We're on the record the time now is 2.41 p.m. In the matter of Deborah and Frazier versus Ricky Allen Frazier case number 2010 773215 dm. There's a video tape deposition of David E. Taylor being taken at 2-0-5-5 Orchard Lake Grove, Selvett, Michigan. Today is November 12th, 2014 My name is Ed Boyke. You leave a videographer. Council please introduce themselves to the record. Colleen Renee appearing on behalf of Rick Frazier. Jerry Cavaliere on behalf of David E. Taylor Since we're going to be winding up with you a lot Mark, why don't you go first this time? Yeah, lovely. Let me give you a couple of things one of them a succession of behaviors the first one a single behavior I want you to look out for the chewing that he's doing on either side of the mouth pretty much probably digging his teeth into his cheek That is quite particular and synonymous often with anxiety Probably a self stimulation behavior.  It's it's a kind of a pacifier Gesture I would suggest does that suggest he's lying No, people can pacify in this way for all kinds of reasons, but it's certainly one to look out for Here's the big succession of gestures that for me denote. It's okay. We've got to really look at this one There's really something going on. He goes from water To a steepling gesture in his thumbs Which drop very quickly that then go to an adapter somewhere on his trousers and then back to a steeple that drops again Do any one of those single things suggest somebody is lying? No, but all of them in such quick succession is very particular to see so again When I see that chewing when I see that succession of what I would now say are probably all of them adapters even the steepling As well, I would say it's him trying to control the environment by trying to feel confident and then realizing don't feel so Confident and better adapt here. That's not working for me better. Go back to here still don't feel very confident So individually they can mean nothing in in a group and in succession in what we call a cluster Very definitely we want to look out for those.   I agree with you There's one thing he's doing the sacred space thing mark I love you captured that but the sacred spaces I got my hands in front of me and I'm doing something with them That's a way to take back some space and take some control make myself comfortable Whatever it is and I always refer to that as sacred space because it gives a person room to think and a way to soothe self Then he moves to the but where he has the bottle and he takes the cap off look at his hands They're trembling my favorite good indicator Somebody's uncomfortable when they're in an interview when they are being in deposition or anything else is how they set The bottle down and they watch it make contact with the table because their hand is jittery and they want to make sure They set it down love that I've seen people do it in job interviews if you are in this position And you are being interviewed don't pick up the bottle if you're that uncomfortable do yourself a favor If you're interviewing somebody and you see them that uncomfortable and they move the glass and you want to make them comfortable Mirror that behavior do the same thing with your glass you'll bring them back to some kind of grounding remember that fight or flight is trying to turn off our thinking brain turn off that That prefrontal cortex or the primate portion of our brain and turn us back into other mammals like cats And that's what's happening here. You see the blink rate increase You see him starting to do things to try to get comfortable if you can remember that that's Happening to you and feel it when you're being interviewed then you take control again curl your toes in your shoes Move your leg in in your chair do something comforting. That's not within sight unlike what he did here First I want you to know directly from me That I never touched anyone inappropriately or made inappropriate sexual advances. I Am 63 years old. I've lived my entire adult life in public view That is just not who I am and That's not who I have ever been Chase. What did you think of the blink rate on that one? I did count the blink rate You did Okay, I was gonna say I got it too. I was gonna see if you're All right, mind down All right, yours down the way to quickly calculate blink rate for you is Just like taking a pulse you count how many blinks you see in 15 seconds and multiply that by four and Scott and I may have had a different 15 second window which would account for a little bit different blink rate But one thing that's fascinating to me right when this video first came up and I watched these at like 5 a.m. Is his lapel pin is Three and a half inches lower than it is in any other video of him I could find on the entirety of the internet and it's the seal of New York So the seal of New York has gone from a place of high status and I'm sounding like Mark here And it's coming down like he's like a flag lowering in itself Towards towards the end and we're getting we're getting towards the evening of his career in this video Right away, there's severity softening And severity softening occurs when a person does not want to say the name of a crime So we hear the word sexual assault many times in these videos coming up, but you will not hear it in association with his behavior Second there's no legal definition of the word appropriate and I think he knows this He's an attorney. His dad was the governor of New York. He was married to a Kennedy. He was married to Robert Kennedy's daughter The blink rate I got here for this video Scott is 89 and His baseline and his other interviews that he's done is 21 Yeah, also in this video there are two Non-contracted denials this means a person did not use a contraction in their statement instead of saying I didn't do that They say I did not do that that was not me instead of it wasn't me So two of those there's a resume statement. I'm 63 years old my entire life in public view This is not who I am who have ever been on the behavioral table of elements Which you can get for free just Google that His score is 20 what you need to go 11 or higher to be the likelihood of deception there It was reported that your income was very high hundreds of millions of dollars We'll say that because I don't want to get hung up on the semantics. I wish that was true And yet when you were in jail last week The bond was a hundred thousand dollars and they said our Kelly couldn't even afford to get himself out of jail That a friend had to come and bail you out of jail What is your financial situation if you don't mind saying? Here's the deal so many people have been still in my money People was connected to my account. I Went into I went by myself for the first time to Bank of America didn't know what I was doing didn't know what the hell was going on when did you do that? First time by yourself three weeks ago to a month three weeks ago was the first time you went to Bank of America by yourself by myself Because I was so tired of not knowing where my money was what my publishing is Isn't that on you then huh? Isn't that on you a lot of it's on that you didn't know where your money is a lot of it's on me And people say he doesn't have money because he had to pay so much in settlements What do you say about that la? There's a lot of clusters around this whole banking issue as chase said He's he's in the future with the banking. I would want him to be in the in his past with that So that's a that's a flag for me The he rocks from side to side before all of that. He's like here's the deal. He doesn't answer the the question King who is who is the best out there that you can see? She picks up on it as well. She's she wants to jump in and question that she's seeing more data than we are at this moment So my guess is if she's going into that there's something up with that and then he answers with Absolutely, it was that for me starts to go. We've got to now watch out for this word. Absolutely Because it seems to come around moments where we now know his probability of lying has gone Right up there. Right up there. So let's watch out for that word. There's a lot of blocking I'm already seeing the suppression of his right leg which Which we're suspecting he is Right-handed that's his dominant leg. So I'm already thinking the The the passion is rising and I'm looking for that leg for I'm already thinking he's going to stand He's he's he's got a lot of energy in that leg already You know that could that could start rising even more She's cranking him up as well at the same time. She's already interrupting him He has this lyricism to him again, which we'll talk about further on And one of the things that seem to annoy him is if you interrupt his lyric If you interrupt his his his rhythm, he has to go back on some words and restart Because he's got something quite romantic going on with this with this lyricism that he's able to have And he's got these kind of looks that he's able to give gale to try and bring her in And tease her into this story, but she's brilliant. She is having None of it. She's totally interrupting his usual patterns on on this Fantastic to watch So today we're covering hunter biden and just like r kelly you have an image in your head of who this is Even more importantly his father happens to be president And you'll take all the baggage associated with the fact that he's the child of the president and assign all of that to Him and what we're talking about. We're talking about what we see in terms of body language We'll have some very pointed opinions does not have anything to do with the president Doesn't have anything to do with anything other than what we see period. That's it All right, you guys ready? Yeah, here we go You make just one reference to it at the book. Yeah, is that laptop yours? It's you don't need the laptop You got a book You got the book. It's all in the book. And I don't know I truly that you don't know the series answer is that I truly do Not know the answer to that Did you leave a laptop with a repairman in millington? No No, but whether or not Somebody has my laptop whether or not It was I My was hacked whether or not there exists a laptop at all. I truly don't know are you missing a laptop Not that I know of but you know Read the book and you'll realize that I wasn't keeping tabs on possessions very well for about a four-year period of time All right, greg. What do you got? Yeah, so i'm gonna go mark.  You're gonna have to go and look him up There's a guy named eddie haskell on leave it to beaver And eddie haskell was notorious for any time someone could give him something like a parent He would suck up big time You see just practicing for the glee club at school I'm sure you are And when they couldn't he would talk down to them There's a whole lot of eddie haskell going on in this video as we get into these next pieces I'll point them out and his demeanor changes depending upon whether he needs something or he's telling And we're going to look at all of that now. I'm not saying he's lying here I'm going to tell you he might not even know whether this is his laptop or not and he hedges at every turn So we'll talk about eddie haskell throughout this video.  He's very vague in his response Always an indicator that somebody is getting the opportunity to avoid the question He disclaims he his blink rate goes through the roof when he's talking about that And he starts to trade guilt saying hey was a bad guy and get off my back in other words And then he does sacred space a thing I call closing your body and then milling So it's burrowing keeping space between you and then adapting. He's milling his hands And then he does a whole lot of Burrowing in general. He's locked up pretty tight If he's not lying He's sure sending a lot of indicators that something's up And if I were interrogating this guy the heat would go really up. I would say no no no You don't get to answer that way. You don't get to be free with this You got to answer my question. I'd poke and prod and push And what you're going to see is you see that brow go up request for approval Anytime he needs something and if you go back and find leave it to beaver and find eddie haskell when he's talking Hey, miss cleaver. You see that forehead up. You see all that nodding when he's talking to them All it's just classic and we'll see him changes demeanor when he's talking in a different way But for now remember eddie haskell chase. What do you got? So The serious answer is that I truly do not know the answer to that So this is double removal a non-contracted denial, which means they say do not instead of don't And did you leave it with a repairman the reporter shaking his head to help him with the answers No idea who this person is doing the interview But I would bet money that you're going to see this again And I would also bet money if I had no idea who either one of these people are that the reporter was either paid or trained to assist this person in the interview And not that I remember said that twice with digital flexion on his hand You can see his hand with his hand squeezing his other hand to try to hold himself still He's very still here. And this is when he's being deceptive according to me I want you to see what he looks like when he's not here in a couple videos, which we're going to look at And he's saying read the book and you'll realize that x y and z So you need to go buy my book go buy my book And that's the the overall theme of this People now ask me Why was I even talking to this young woman? If I knew she was dealing with such issues Why did I even engage with her? That is the obvious and fair question And one I have thought a lot about The truth is that her story resonated deeply with me I had heard the same story before With the same ugliness the same injustice the same damage Not only had I heard the story before I had lived with the story before My own family member is a survivor of sexual assault in high school I have watched her live and suffer with a trauma I would do anything to make it go away for her But it never really goes away I spent countless days and nights working through these issues with her and therapists and counselors I'm governor of the state of new york But I felt powerless to help And felt that I had failed her I couldn't take the pain away I still can't And this young woman brought it all back Mark so oh mark. Sorry. Yeah, not mark. What are you good? Empathy narrative happening there I agree with the narcissistic tone there Because his brother has written that passage there I'm governor of the state of new york He's written it. It's meant to be powerless irony It's meant to go look. I'm governor of the state of new york And I can't do anything with family members who are survivors of this kind of abuse What uh Andrew Cuomo does is to use it as a power play Not as how it's meant to be written there as being powerless He actually puts inflection on it that makes it powerful So he can't even help himself when something's been written for him to take his status down He uses it as an opportunity to bring his statement his status up He uses something which is meant to be demotive Into another resume statement. It's quite extraordinary and I'm sure his brother doing the best that he can He's not brilliant at the job. It was pretty annoyed at how his brother delivers on this But unfortunately what this is is kind of 101 stock risk management here in that they go for the strategy of Show empathy and roll out the family now if if the you know, this is where in in in a classic situation You're outside their house and the politician comes forward and the wife and kids come out to the gate and the press are around And and the wife shows that she still loves the husband and the kids are adorable And we show this beautiful family unit and then in they go again and we hope the press go away with those photos He's kind of doing the same verbally going Look, you know, I've got empathy here. It's a family situation. Have a look at I mean, I guess it's a it's a sister or a wife or even a child. I don't know who it is but ultimately Look if you had any real empathy and you really wanted to use the power to make that go away You just wouldn't mention it. You wouldn't bring it up in front of everybody If if it's something that somebody wants to kind of deal with and maybe even, you know Push to one side or forget about or deal with in their own time Don't bring it out to the whole public. You're doing the exact opposite So again, he's using his power here in a in a um, a rather corrupted manner I I would suggest there. That's what I got on that one Mark no longer on the Cuomo's christmas card list Yes, yes His christmas cards were rubbish. Anyway, they were all about him I'm gonna do the clock. She went through and packed up a bag or anything All that in the bottom. So it'd be kind of hard to tell if she took a little bit or Be easy tough to the lot, but it's hard to tell if it's a little bit or not. Okay She tell you anything about leaving moving out not moving out. I mean Last time talked to her was this morning. She said she's gonna take the kids To a friend's house and that's where she was going to be and then I've texted her today. I've never heard anything But the car the car is here. Right unless somebody came picked her up But the people that I know You don't want to start from nobody's scene right What we're seeing here is we're seeing the same question asked several times During this video we're during this breakdown. We're going to see the cops act as a team And man, do they ever they've gelled so well? I'm sure they've worked together a long time. These guys are great And I'll explain that as we go along as we get further down. I'll tell you I'll explain to you what they're doing Like mark was talking about we see these lags in his illustrators The illustrators again are the things that people use when they are when their brain is emphasizing specific words and phrases Like I just then Specific words and phrases. So when you have a lag in your illustrators If you say something and then it comes down or doesn't come down on time as you're talking about them Then something's going on in there You're thinking and he's thinking because he's the stress level comparatively to compared to how it's going to be a little bit later on Is really low. It's really low. He's just talking. It seems like he's just talking to this guy But when he starts and we'll notice that he uses his his hands and I believe it's the passion playing his mark Up in here when he's talking about um going back to yeah, I read all your books So when it comes back to uh, his illustrators, he's up in the passion playing when he's talking about things that he knows are true And things that he's done or he's familiar with it. He's comfortable talking about So it doesn't mean he's telling the truth when they're up here all it means at this point Is he's confident with saying those things because he's used to saying he's thought those out a little bit further than The other things where he comes down here and when he gets down here almost in the grotesque plane mark Then when it comes down here and they freeze Right after he adds answers the question.  He just keeps looking at him because he's watching him to see if he needs to add any Um qualifiers to that which later on as we go along and his stress level gets higher and higher He starts adding qualifiers where he doesn't even need to Qualifiers are the things that make your answers sound more believable It gives it more punch more oomph and things are just dressed it up and make it sound like a true statement or something That's believable So that's pretty much what I got But are you are you Michael? Are you honestly saying that you've only ever had one operation? to You've had two As I can remember. Yeah, just two but we see uh This hand gesture of two He's using the back of his hand And I spent some time today looking at videos. This is a strong deviation from his normal behavior He's a very open palm communicator And this is followed by a short eye flutter And eye flutter is is something we do that some Body language people will call eye blocking But we also another reason that humans do this is when our cpu is processing a bunch of information Our eyes will blink a lot and They're asking him a baseline question here, which is pretty basic and his eyes go to nine Nine o'clock as we're seeing the video his eyes move to nine o'clock which would make me if I'm the interviewer That immediate eye movement. I'm gonna I'm gonna remember that And I'm gonna say I'm gonna check this in a few seconds to see if it goes back to this spot again When I'm asking him about the car he drives where he lives the street address What his house looks like that kind of thing? and that's important And there's a use of it what's called an exclusion statement here as far as I know as far as I recall if memory serves Those kinds of things There's two different ways we can judge this on deception For one if I'm asking scott Hey scott does the guy that lives six doors down from you make crystal meth in his garage And scott goes. Well, uh, not to the best of my knowledge That's not deceptive But if I ask scott if scott are you making crystal meth in your garage and you go, uh, no not as far as memory serves So the the way you ask a question determines whether or not those exclusion statements are Deceptive or not And we see the hand wave the wiping again And there's some very prominent lip-licking behavior right after his answer with some And this is just a hygienic gesture and a hygienic gesture is anything designed to improve your appearance And this is more likely to be deceptive and his blink rate again goes from 26 to the high 80s It was too hard to calculate the exact number Scott, what do you got? Well, all right Well, when one thing if you'll listen to him if you'll listen to this you hear this little tapping noise It's him tapping his feet and his hands on his legs because when he when he first comes in he says, um Um, when he gives that gesture of two Then you hear him put his hand down his lap and you hear it slapped out like that's it That's all you're getting. That's the answer and that's as far as I'm going like it. So it's like two That's it. So that's that's what I'm seeing there. So he's trying so he knows that's not right So but he's trying to put a stop to it before he goes any further um And so those are the adapters you're hearing his feet tapping in his hands, which denotes he's being Nervous he's getting wound up here. He's getting getting wired a little bit um And when you say when he asked me if he's had when he says how many you know If you had more than one he says I've only had two you've only had two as far as I can remember I remember every surgery I've had I've had three And I remember and I have a story about every one of them I can tell you something happened before and something happened after if I came to you guys and I said And and I was going to have two nose jobs if I got one done And I said I said I want to go have another nose job.  It would be a really big deal I wouldn't be thinking and you would say you don't need to be a big deal I would remember that Well, maybe he's talking about two points of entry nose and behind the ears It could be could be All right, that's what I got you guys ready by the way, Scott If you said you were going to get two nose jobs, I would pay for the second one All right, so what is your Salary at JMA my now From what I know and I'm what you know. Yeah, I think it's around 27 to 30,000 And And what expenses are you saying that JMA my pays on your behalf? Well It's The expenses under the law for clergy. So what are they? I don't know. You have to go research that I can't tell you. No, I don't know every There is no research I can do that'll tell me what JMA my is paying for you Well, what I'm saying is we abide by those laws. So that's that's where it would be. So no, it's Sir, I'm just saying I can't tell you. I don't know you have no idea what expenses JMA my pay for housing allowance How much is that? I'm not sure Don't know What other allowance? There's I don't want to misstate. So I don't know I'd rather for someone who's professional and tell you about that No, I'm asking about your personal not in theory what you're asking about ministry stuff. Let me finish I'm answering you. No, don't don't interrupt. Let me finish the question. Okay I love how he goes from from what I know to I know. I don't know There's lots of of flip-flopping between what you know and what you don't know Linguistically he's not making any sense at all Uh, you'll notice him rocking backwards and forwards right at the start as well self soothing gesture in my opinion there And then the last one the 27 to 30 k Of what he thinks his salary might be we get The bitter taste in his mouth There's something that he knows is distasteful about what he just said there There's just too many red flags here to to suggest that he's telling the truth or is innocent Mine's gonna be fairly short Sorry Because when I when I first saw this this part and it's classic because it comes right after that when he gets sworn in He answers a couple of questions Then he begins and you guys get ready for this because you go, oh, I can't believe it and bring this up So I guess I was kind of bummed out because I figured you guys were going to nail this right out of the gate But what you see him do his hands come down the guard is growing area Those shoulders come forward. He comes for a little bit trying to guard His heart and his lungs and his stomach doing that number As his as his shoulders come forward that head goes down guard that neck and he starts turtling And that's the very first thing you see most of the time when someone is not telling the truth And you start asking them questions first thing we do is what do you what do you know? What those eyebrows go up request for approval and then that you start from there And you've got to get him open back up. She's not interrogating him here. So it's a completely different situation But he does the classic moves of bringing everything forward and getting and going down like this Or is the opposite of that is when they're getting ready to tell you everything For example in a murder, you'll see him start rocking and they'll get opened up a little bit And that's when you reach over and you touch on the leg blah blah blah like we've talked about before What else have I got in here? I think Yeah, and and originally I thought that nose scratch was was part of eye blocking But I think it's just just another adapter So that's that's one of the number one things people learn when they first start body languages if you scratch your nose You're lying because it there's so many blood vessels everything in your nose that it is sensitive But that's the number one overdone Absolute I've ever heard is people constantly talking about that. I think it stems from a research Of course, I'm gonna bring this up, but it stems from a research that was done at a university where some dude in a lab coat read Questions off a clipboard and they said you're you need to lie to question 11 or whatever Was and nose scratching or facial touching was the number one indicator Of deception that they noticed But it's what they didn't fail they failed to tell us It's the number one indicator of deception when you tell someone to be deceptive the stakes are low And it's a college kid in a completely safe environment knowing that there's some idiot with a clipboard in front of you So That situation for that. Yeah Have you ever given your father money from any of your business ventures? No, nothing nothing ever Not a nickel not a nickel directly or indirectly directly or indirectly not a nickel ever 100 no never So, uh, the reporter starts again this journalist. No idea who he is looks like he's been Especially coached to make sure this interview is in favor of hunter So this is bad. This whoever this guy is is is really bad There's more no head shaking during the initial question there Continues to shake head only offering pieces of the questions He should be asking these small fragments of that allow the person to just say yes or no Nothing ever indirectly directly or indirectly And it's uh, it's a recipe for disaster there and in hunter. We see fidgeting and Digital flexion and the difference between these two is the repetitiveness of the behavior if it occurs once or twice It's not we wouldn't classify most of us wouldn't classify that as fidgeting We typically classify repetitive behaviors that way And there's repetitions of the questions and phrases direct repetition Direct repetition is a red flag for deception He's saying the exact words that the person doing the interview is saying This is not a good sign I don't know who this guy is but it it looks like he was trained to make hunter look innocent greg Yeah, so i'm gonna do exactly what he did mark play along mark I'm gonna use leading questions to mark. You never ran naked through a football stadium. Did you never never run naked? Absolutely naked absolutely absolutely not You get it guys if I ask the question a certain way and I say hey, you didn't do this Did you that's called a leading question? The reason you can't do it in court is because you're telling a person the answer Well, you don't have to tell the person the answer if you say you didn't do this. Did you what are they gonna answer? No, you say mark tell me about the time you ran naked through the To the football stadium different story. No, you'll tell me all about We have evidence so we know but So what this guy is doing and chase I agree with you by the way There's a there's a disclaimer in the video that says this is a cbs fiacom company and his publisher Is tied to the company so they go out of their way to say that in the video We don't have that captured here, but they do go out of the way to say it didn't lock down He's and it's not common knowledge It's just one thing I heard them say but he's locked down His burying and adapting and milling his fingers and I agree with you It looks like a strong denial except for he's repeating exactly the same words. He's being spoon fed the answer Now we're the guys doing it intentionally and you know as a conspiracy Don't know I'm not gonna assume that but I will assume bad questioning and giving him the benefit of a doubt where you should Then he responds to every one of those leading questions and he does romancer again He is eye focused no forehead involvement because he knows what he's denying The other thing is he never Answers the spirit of the question. He answers the question very lawyer like of him Did you ever give your father any money? I believe he didn't Directly indirectly directly indirectly. Did you cause him to have any money never answers that question never says look There's no there's nothing behind the scenes that caused my father to get money None of that's ever addressed. He answers the question asked just like when I asked mark Did you ever run that you'd never run naked? If I lead the question the guy's going to tell me what I want to hear and he's going to pay attention to me very closely Because he's going to be specific A trained lawyer who has worked as a lawyer is going to be very specific in what he answers and not answer the spirit But the letter of the question interrogation 101 when you're trying to get away from answering Answer the question. They ask don't provide information that you shouldn't That we're seeing it over and over and over here and there's no reason for him to go to To go and become Eddie Haskell because he knows what's coming Scott, what do you get? You guys got you guys got all that stuff. So I'll say this this one's hot. Yeah Yeah, so I'll say this if you'd like to see mark bowden run through a stadium naked It was a nike commercial and you can google that or don't google put it in youtube and search Uh, nike streaker. That's nike streaker and you'll see mark bowden naked or nude furlong denic Oh We have contact Looks like he has more souvenirs for the crowd I think he's got the shoes to thank A minute ago, they were all challenging who had all the pies like that's your answer And he's off like a bull with gas Have you ever had sex with anyone under the age of 17?  That's your explanation.  Absolutely Absolutely Absolutely, I think uh, everybody's done something we regret All of us you're watching this right now We've all done something we wish we didn't do we've all regretted it and as time passes We our brain pieces stuff together that says well, maybe I was on the right Maybe I did the right thing. Maybe I've grown over that. Maybe, you know, I've done the best I could I felt bad for a long time and that's enough. You know, I I I did my My sentence So we've all done something like that so we can Relate as interrogators to a person just understanding that the brain automatically tries to rationalize and project Automatically, so it's three things that typically happen. We minimize we rationalize and we project a lot of the stuff that we Are embarrassed about so if we wish we hadn't done We talked about clusters Let's talk about some clusters The denial occurs before the question But when you're watching this, maybe there's something else that happened just before this. I don't know So i'm going to ignore that completely There's anti-gravity gesture on the right foot this is moving up during the denial. I'll ignore that as well So there's a stop gesture with his left hand During this denial the fingers extend out to see this this stop gesture of don't don't go there We'll ignore that Let's keep moving and we'll we'll build a cluster Next we have a final claim when he's making his final claim He's shaking his head no before he starts to make the denial That's a four on the behavioral table of elements. Anyway This is a deviation from his baseline from every video and I watched about an hour and a half of his videos to get a baseline this morning Lip compression during the denial. That's a four hand to face gesture That's a four emotional. I recall movement where he's just kind of accessing some emotional state. I'll ignore it mismatched gestures of four repetition of denial times two he said it three times but repeated it twice Which would give him an eight The score here is a 16 plus four is 20 So his deception score is 28 here And he needs an 11 to be graded as likely deceptive during the statement And I ignored four things that that could have been scored. So what we're seeing here is is a big cluster of behaviors here and With that long one Mark, I'll pass it to you. Yeah, you know, the one thing I'd written down here chase was I want to know what chase ranks this on the on the table of elements because Because I started going through okay, you know Head shakes, eye blocks, lip suppression, self-serve, incongruence, single shrug You're turtling Shrinking it's like god. There's such a big cluster in there and even with you discounting a whole bunch He's still got that high score What I'd got before any of that. Oh, by the way, just beautiful chin jut battle between him and gale Right at the start. I mean, what a what a battle like they are both going at each other Right now on this. There is a strong battle going on between them right now amazing to see But we get that word that I said at the start that I was worried about we get absolutely absolutely absolutely and and that Along with that huge cluster Is just too many red flags flying at the same time for me. That's that's just A huge cluster. I would suggest did it scare you? Did you think it was wrong? The couple days prior To to the abuse starting he started touching me just in the sense of like Panned on my leg lots of hugs kissing my forehead Rubbing my hand so there'd been this kind of development of physical closeness that was happening already that felt Like a father just felt amazing As michael started doing these sexual acts. He started talking to me about god brought us together We love each other and this is how we love each other. We love each other And this is how we show each other our love. Greg. What do you got? Yeah, I usually associate large Illustrators with a true story. However, if they're way too demonstrative, I wonder and you know that all this stuff Makes me feel uncomfortable now. Also.  I can't I haven't seen his baseline so hard for me to say We usually associated large movements lots of illustrators with telling the truth And he does have a very clearly enunciated story as he's going through this It's not just his hands if he's acting and mark I'll pass it to you after this if he's acting he's doing a pretty damn good job because his gestures Hand movements his illustrators His face everything is punctuating at the same time There's congruency is the term you would use in body language in the messaging if his messaging is this good I don't know what he does for living these days But he should be in advertising if his messaging is this good and he can rehearse into it It looks fluid. It looks natural. It looks believable There's a lot of reasons for this guy to show nervous body languages He's delivering this message and his message is congruent Face hands words all at the same time and that's hard to fake in my opinion So I'm gonna pitch that to the expert on being able to fake it mark Yeah, and and mark mark before you start Let me let me let me throw this up because I forgot to add this to my thing Um, the first books I'll read of yours. You always talked about the truth pain plane and the passion plane And I don't know if you're going to get into this here But as we go through this we explain what his hands are doing in the truth plane and the passion plane and the differences in those Yeah, yeah, so so Greg I got it I got the same things written down here, which is clear illustrators And they're congruent with the story. They're very descriptive So I think some of the kind of big demonstrative nature of it when he's coming up into passion, which is chest height here It's because he is energized about the story. We do get Descriptions of of height, I believe and and and stroking the head and During all of these descriptions of the act you get downward Intonations, so there's a lot of congruency and certainty around the acts that happened Uh at the start you see a lovely little gesture down in the in the truth plane here Yeah, which is around navel height around the couple of days beforehand and he's and he's saying Yeah, I don't know whether it was this day or that day and he has upward intonation on that So there's uncertainty about the exact day that he's talking about and then we get when he gets into the acts clear clear downward intonation And demonstrative gesture which fits in the rhythm of what he's saying Then we get on to how he felt around it. So the feeling of Of a father and then we get upward intonation So he's very clear on the acts that happened He's not so clear about exactly what days before leading up to it. They were And then he's he has uncertainty Around the relationships and the feelings that went on because then we get the upward Intonations around the idea of father God Those are all things that are questionable What it was said to him the motives the relationship is now questionable I don't think it's questionable for him as to the acts that happened the physical things that that happened I think you're right. It's pretty tough to to falsify such Such a kind of a coalition of information All at the same time. Yes, you could rehearse it. You could rehearse it.  Yeah, I think there's a lot going on here if you look at this I went back and I watched him several years ago all the way up to the videos where he was on jimmy kimmel And he is very demonstrative with this gesture. So that is definitely his baseline and what I thought was interesting here is his His body is completely fluid and speaking about the casual things that took place when he gets to the abuse His body closes up the humerus bone this bone right here gets closer to his body and our body is programmed from How who knows how many millions of years of evolution to protect arteries when we get scared So fear makes our shoulders come up It makes our neck go like this and these meadow clastoid muscles come out and they jump in front of the carotid artery We have a brachial artery down here that squeezes in the shoulders come up to protect the neck So fear makes our body protect arteries And we see some of that here towards the end when he's doing this So he shows more confirmation glances at the end more eyebrow flashing at the end There's more upward tone at the end and there's no more body narration except for small hand movement So we go from big and they get smaller and smaller towards the end when he's talking about the actual abuse as as he calls it and I think that This is not even if I were going Ignoring the trauma ignoring everything else and just going off behavior. This still would not score above a 12 On the behavioral table of elements. This would be a 10.5 What personal allowances j.m. Ministry provides you or stipends for Housing or automobile or whatever. What do they provide you? You know, I I know there are many allowances, but one that I Can't say is housing allowance But in order for you to get the accurate The names for what they allow you have to talk to a professional because I don't want to give you misinformation No, I'm not asking in theory. What is possible? I'm asking what actually j.m. Am I provides to you? I can't ask that he doesn't know that it's non-responsive. I just don't know. I'm just telling you the truth Okay, well, that's an answer, but that's not what you told me before Um, all right. Well, I'll go first on this one Again, here he begins with his mouth adapters again starts chewing on his mouth as they go along Then he scoots back in his chair and he literally braces himself for this answer Because it's almost like somebody's throwing stuff at him verbally as corn balls that sounds because he scoots back And he's starting to get ready And and as he does that his arm comes up his right his right arm comes up almost as a barrier For those things as well Then when he starts using his illustrators are really slow as he's using these things And as he goes forward he's like this and this and then when he's finished when he's had and he said that's enough He brings it back forward and you hear it hit his lap So that's the way he's using his illustrators in that point So what we're seeing here just so you'll know when someone is being deceptive a lot of times you'll always hear Oh, they move back away from deception. Sometimes they will sometimes they won't but in this case He is as he braces himself to start to start giving his I want to say something cuss word answer, but he started giving his his deceptive answer So greg what do you got? Yeah, so he's still doing the shrinking target the uncle fester look You know his head's still kind of shrunken down into his body But he also when she starts to ask the question his face does recognition Something he's prepared to defend against and you see him almost look happy for a minute And then he does the request for approval and he does that pushing away what you're talking about with his hand as he sits back There's not i'm not going to cover a whole lot of body language here As he works through the mechanics of all these questions. He also then is going about Chat from redirect. He's dumping a lot of words that have no meaning And hoping she'll pick up on one so he can move in the other direction There's not a lot of content anything he says his voice tone goes to really soft Because if I tell a lie and it's low Maybe you won't hear and you hear that in people a lot when a person's telling you something It's not true and they guard and they go to the lower voice and they they get lighter And they're leaning in so you can hear them. That's all them trying to deceive you I listen when someone's changing tone Something is up something's changed in their head when their volume level changes People who are masterful at managing the situation will use that to draw you in closer In this case, I think it's more of a if I don't say it out loud Then i'm not going to be held accountable and then the I don't know and all of those Typical ways of avoiding questions mark. What do you get? Yeah, so the brain loves predictability and autonomy the the ability to make decisions When it's in an environment where it's unpredictable to it and it doesn't feel like it has a lot of Power to decide what's going on levels of dopamine reduce and dopamine is the neurotransmitter that says to the brain Hey, things are going to get good. We've got some good expectations out of this So the brain gets really kind of depressed. So we use adapters We like to manipulate the world around us simply so the brain goes. Hey, we've got a lot of choice here I can I can move my jacket. Hey, I can shift how I'm sitting right now That causes the brain to get optimistic So we adapt when we want the world to get better for us and we want to feel better He does this massive adapter, which is this big shift in the chair Because he's under pressure and he wants to feel better I would say in this particular circumstance It kind of works quite well for him because I think he gets just that little bit more confident When he's made this big move. So we might get distracted by the confidence We might go. Hey, I think these answers are going pretty well Maybe he's being honest because look at how confident he feels But we've got to put it in the perspective of such a massive adapter beforehand And how that may have triggered him into feeling a lot more confident when his answers really have that same resonance of untruthfulness about them There is another complaint I want to address From a woman in my office who said that I groped her in my home office Let me be clear that never happened She wants anonymity and I respect that so I am limited but what I can say But her lawyer has suggested that she will file a legal claim for damages That will be decided in a court of law Trial by newspaper Or biased reviews Are not the way to find the facts in this matter I welcome the opportunity for a full and fair review before a judge in a jury Because this just did not happen this When we see this one eyebrow hesitantly try to lift up On his face when we have a true emotion Versus a fake emotion they come from very different parts of the brain the last time you were at a concert And really enjoying yourself and smiling you weren't stopping to think oh wait. I need to smile right now This is the time I need to smile So when we when we do a fake facial expression or fake gestures, they're more likely to be Asymmetrical because they haven't been tightening those muscles on the face for six million years They don't have a whole lot of practice So that's we're more likely to see some asymmetry there. I think that's perhaps what this might be Uh during the word woman, there's a single shoulder shrug here. I cannot tell if that's associated with a hand gesture or not The uh head shaking is during his denial, which is in keeping with his normal baseline behavior The increased speed during denial There's an increase in his speed, which is indicative of deception There's an immediate mouth closure, which is different than his other ones. This one it snaps shut immediately after that When he's talking about a judge in a jury His eyes close on specific words just like a baton gesture And this is i'm using this is a coined by desmond morris if you want to read more about that But a baton gesture is when it goes along with the cadence of what's being said And then this just did not happen There's more baton eye closures at all of those words Then there's a non-contracted denial where there's a non-contracted statement instead of didn't he said did not Then there's no claim that the accusation was false. There is no claim that the accusation is false. That's a big deal The high blink rate In this video is almost a new baseline for him But I cannot count that as deceptive and I won't since he's been doing it throughout the entire video I won't count this as as standing out from the crowd However, with the score of 11 necessary for deception to be likely his score here without the blink rate Is a 26. Yeah, all the same things you're seeing i'm going to cover a couple of them in redundancy But that I just think we need to cover this First of all when you talk about the brow up guys, we call that request for approval or something We're looking to you to get approval or we may use our brow to drive home points Many gestures many things that we do can have multiple meanings a great example Is the one that you brought up chase he's blinking his eyes But then he goes bump bump bump and he does a non-contracted denial And he illustrates or drives home his point with each Much like our little friend Aaron Caffey saying kill my parents in that video The same thing using your eyes to punctuate batoning with your eyes And that's a great Desmond Morris man watching great book you go find batoning gestures there He starts off with lip compression right out of the gate. That's from the last question He's illustrating with his right hand. You see that shoulder moving He in most cases where he's talking about something negative He's illustrating with his right hand positives left when he's doing his resume statements is here When he's saying something negative his hands move over to here He's doing now a lot of that what we talked about front of mouth talking and it's making him sound whiny no more gravel more whiny sounding One brow goes up His blink rate goes through the roof then he does that blink rate to illustrate And a non-contracted denial one other thing mark not only is it in a court of law Not only is it with a judge and jury, but they're going to review not a trial not a trial He avoids that word whole sale Guilty people don't like things like trials Lots of red flags guys like we said we're switzerland, but switzerland even switzerland can see across the border. Here we are Alley your Your brother's widow threw the gun away. She was trying to protect you I think she yes. Yeah. I think she was just concerned about me. I think you have a gun Well, I did again, you know the period of my life that um was difficult. It was um but You know, I I don't know Halley's intent was to To make certain that I didn't do anything to hurt myself According to the reporting at one point the secret service went Looking for the record of sale. Do you know anything about that? Nothing? No No No idea did somebody report the loss of the gun. Oh, yeah, they they had um at in the moment, uh, you know, we Knew that the gun was lost Halley had thrown it into a trash can and I told her that you can't do that When I realized that it was gone and so she went back and and they the police came to help retrieve the gun Which was retrieved someone had gone through the trash and picked it up and they found it Within hours, I believe and so that was the end of the story But you know about the secret service being involved. No, I had no idea I don't know whether the secret service were or why they would be or I don't think that that's true Yeah, to my knowledge It was very concerned that you had a gun Wow All right, I'm gonna go first on this one This is this is victim talk. This is I'm a victim right from beginning to end And he says, why do you have a why do you have a gun? He goes in this chapter redirect it boy? That's that's just that you we should put that in the book or something because that is just It's wonderful what he's doing right in there. That's really great And he's and he goes right to that that get out of jail Crack card every time because I as he's when he asked him about the gun He goes well I was the part of my life where it was because he's getting ready to say I don't know what was going on He's trying to work up a way to use that to get to add it to that. Well, I don't know what happened I don't know what's going on. You know shoot. I was on crack Uh, again, we see that the same thread of that hand squeezing going through there as an adapter he looks uncomfortable and um at the end there I'm not gonna say anything because I know Greg's gonna eat it alive that Where he's bobbing and weaving there at the end when it gave us the the giggle so bad.  Yeah, so he starts off with this whole adapter barrier the same thing we've been seeing and then he goes into again Eddie Haskell and his forehead comes up. He starts trying to placate this guy Chaff and redirected every term My favorite chaff and redirect is he starts to puke up. Hey, why'd you have a gun? Well, I was in and suddenly thinks Involved with drugs and carrying firearms looks a lot worse than Involved with drugs or carrying firearms. So he he edits in the middle of it and his blink rate just goes He flashes so much.  He knows is that he has no I he knows not noses He knows he has no idea where he's at in the story and he's lost himself Not probably sure that he hasn't done some a little bit of incrimination right in there when he says Hey in the middle of me being a drug addicted drug dealer. I also had a gun. Yeah I think he's probably thought for a second. Oh, and so he gets kind of off track there chase. What do you got? Yep, I agree with you guys I want you to notice the head nod in the beginning when he's asking him to say yes to this question There's a head nod the open hand gesture from the reporter In fact every single question in this clip when he's supposed to say no The reporter tells him you're supposed to say no to this And when he's supposed to say yes or he's supposed to know something the reporter asks him the question In truthful fashion feeds it to him with a leading question You didn't know about the secret service, right? Do you know about the secret service being involved? No, I had no idea This is bad. I'm not saying there's some conspiracy here, but this is really bad as far as reporting goes We could have done better. How about that? There's some immediate Fidgeting some digital flexion his whole body becomes rigid and when he's asked why did you have a gun? I'll read you what he says Because I spent some time today typed it out He says well, I again, uh the period in my life that um was difficult It was uh, but you know I I don't know That's code for I was a criminal carrying a gun while I was buying drugs Yeah, then he asked about the secret service reporter shakes his head to let biden know Uh second question about the secret service reporter shaking his head to help him answer the question and not knowing the case this looks bad and But you didn't know about the secret service being involved and then With the answer to the secret service. I don't know whether it was the secret service were or uh, why they would be or I don't think that's true to my knowledge That's the answer Pretty interesting. It's all I got. Stop it. Y'all quit playing quit playing I didn't do this stuff. This is not me. Y'all. I'm fighting for my life Y'all Robert And I can't do it What y'all just don't want to believe the truth You don't want to believe it man. Gail king. That's the most gangster yet.  She didn't move You could right there. She could have totally got away with sit down. Oh, yeah Yeah Yeah, she's totally good. Okay, jays. What do you got suggesting accusations as and defining the accusation as someone playing Is is a really good data point here and when he's saying I didn't do this stuff This isn't me He's talking about this isn't me anymore Because he immediately shifts to which he has many times throughout this thing shifts to going back. It's been 30 years Time is the healer time has corrected this problem already. We don't need to revisit any of this stuff And this isn't me So what that is is what we call an Interrogation some dissociative statement or a dissociation statement where they're dissociating from that's not me I'm not the person and This is uh offenders tend to see past events is unchangeable So I can't change it again, but I can change me in the future So they have a tendency to kind of grow out of the capacity to do it again And I think that's the belief that we're really dealing with here down in the middle There's a hard crystal belief of I have outgrown the capacity for this to ever happen again We do not need to go back and revisit that that's not me This isn't me what we're talking about here Isn't me now Yeah, so a few things um number one There's an old thing Alphas don't strut people strut around alphas to show off She's alpha in this room because the minute you move The person who moves the least in a situation always has the upper hand If you ever watch people in the room and you're trying to figure out which of the guys is alpha when they're all hanging out It's the one not doing anything. All the guys doing all this stuff around him They're all trying to impress him or trying to outshine him The other guy doesn't need to and that's what she's doing here is quietly containing Composure and controlling the room and that's powerful great job on that The other piece that's interesting is I do think it's frustration. I don't think he's angry yet I think he's just exploding Look, you can't tell anymore, but I've got hair the color of copper Along with that comes a temper believe it or not So I recognize temper when I see temper that's temper frustration lack of ability to control a situation And it's one of those things the army will beat out of you It's one of those things you learn the hard way when you're a soldier But along the way you can recognize people who can't control it and who don't know when it's socially appropriate to lose their cool I think we're seeing him. I think that's him. I don't think there's an act Because his brain is not working here.  His frontal lobe is off. He's in another gear now.  His handler comes over and goes, hey, man You're losing your cool and takes him away. That's powerful. It tells you what's going on This guy didn't prep this he didn't come in there to do it In fact, I would suggest that at this point He thought he would be able to hold his cool And gale king has gotten so far under his skin with simple questioning Simple questioning that now he's there and he's explosive.   I think he's so frustrated. It's just boiling up and exploding now Transplant that back into a house where you're living with people and you're isolated and for a minute I'm not saying he did anything to these people But for a minute assume that your entire livelihood is attached to him because of a relationship and all that explosive behavior becomes normal Then what so there's all kinds of you know, we always say a truth is a complicated thing And just because you believe it doesn't make it true This is an interesting one to pay attention to and then let's see where he goes next But there's a hell of a lot of frustration that leads to explosive behavior and we see it Other complaints relate to the work environment Now I have always said my office is a demanding place to work and that it is not for everyone We work really really hard My office is no typical nine to five government office And I don't want it to be The stakes we deal with are very high Sometimes even life and death We have to get the job done. I promised you that I would and I will But now a number of complaints target female managers Which smacks to me of a double standard First When have you ever seen male managers? maligned and Customized for working long hours or holding people accountable or for being tough A strong male manager is respected and rewarded But a strong female manager Is ridiculed and stereotyped? It is a double standard It is sexist and it must be challenged Also Remember where we are Today we are living in a super heated If not toxic political environment That shouldn't be lost on anyone Politics and bias Are into woven throughout every aspect of this situation One would be naive to think otherwise And new yorkers are not naive How's he talking about? Where's he going with that? I want to go first with this one I love that All right, Greg, go ahead. What do you got? Oh, I love I love this Now he's doing something he knows how to do He's a politician He can talk without meaning and he's doing a hell of a lot of it He's chaffing and redirecting But it's on a grand scale He's filibustering is what he's doing He's just spewing words And hoping one of them is good enough that you'll pick it up and run with it But then he takes holy ground He took he takes the bill clinton playbook I got work to do for the american people And even then goes and says well If you were naive, you would believe this But of course you're not naive Don't be foolish, you're not naive You don't believe any of this This is one of the best garbage Out of your mouth things I've ever heard This is two minutes of absolute nothing And when he didn't spend two minutes talking about the crime He spent a lot of time talking about his experience With his family member And then why he was better than that Two minutes talking about God knows what this is You could this is AI AI could create this on your cell phone Just by punching in data and letting it finish the sentence This is absolute nonsense Is chaff and redirect And it's an opportunity to get away from what he's covered before He does cover a handful of other things Of course right just causes And his body language is right Because he's a politician He gets righteous indignation The chin comes up He throws out that throat And then when things are really horrible He covers his throat again The body language is there Because he's politicking That's what he does There's no alarm bells going off in your head Or any thoughts like that Really it's just I love this person And we're trying to make each other happy He said I was his first But even as a kid you don't even know what that means So you're lovers and your best friends Greg, what do you got? Yeah same thing I call this The organ of communication or connection Right your forehead I constantly, we constantly use our forehead We use our forehead to signal recognition We use our forehead to signal grief unintentionally We ask for approval We use our forehead in all kinds of ways I browbeat you And you can see he's trying to make connection With the interviewer, with Gail And he's, his brow is constantly moving As he's asking the question and talking But I don't see it as request for approval Like I'm lying and I want you to believe me I think it's more of the Vulnerable Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Are you judging me? Kind of a look The brow is constantly moving And he's messaging is Almost like he's asking for approval His body's getting smaller I don't see him as lying I don't see a lot, signs of deception Because I look for messaging to all tie together Again, his story is moving along What he's saying Well it might seem awkward to us For him to say we were in a loving relationship Kind of a thing For him at that time Whatever he was told is what his brain is saying Or whatever he recalls being told is what his brain is saying If he's lying He's got his rhythm down All of his body language and his gestures there And he's asking for approval Like a child who would have been in the wrong kind of relationship By no fault of his own might do Because guys This is how we have to be careful People ask us this all the time When you're asking and interrogating people If you're interviewing somebody who has been the victim of a crime It's really easy to confuse their lack of thorough facts With deception Because the way our brain works is under duress Like the first guy may have been We don't lay down the same kind of memories we do When we are relaxed And you know A child, somebody who has gone through this They're going to have memories of things and sketchy pieces And it's very difficult to figure out exactly what's true and what isn't And so you have to try to remove your own biases in either way Whether it's you believe Michael Jackson did something or you don't What we're looking at is fluid movement that looks like He's signaling what he's saying That's mine Right Well, I've also, I've seen a couple other interviews With people who have been Who have accused him of this as well And one of the guys said He also said he was the only one or he was his first This is the first one he's been like this with So that seems to be a common theme throughout that And with this guy we're looking at now Again, he's fairly comfortable He's loping And I mean comfortable as in delivering the story in the state that he's in Because it's probably the state he gets in every time he's doing that Everything looks the way it should to me The only thing that bothers me Is he places the situation in the third person He separates himself from it Which is quite common in these things Because he says you don't understand this And you're not aware of this And you don't do this as he's telling that story And that's when he that's I think this is the only time he does that So that's kind of that kind of bothers me But I know the differences in that But if you're looking for that Because I think we've talked about it before That's what's happening here He's uncomfortable with it It's something that's a traumatic thing that's happened to him So he is separating himself from it That's one way to do it So you'll quite often hear him hear the victim talk that way I didn't see any dissection in this one at all either So that's short and to the point from my part And Chase, you had something you were to talk about? Yeah, we talked a lot about baselining in this video A whole lot about deviations from baseline And what a person's baseline is There's some great scientific research on this From accredited universities and well-respected journals I put some stuff together I even made a website for you guys to go to It is scottrouseishandsome.com You guys can go to this website right now All of the baseline research is there right now Knock it out, tan daddy Is that real?  That's good That's cool Good handsomeness Good lord Very nice, very nice job Chase That is hilarious Yeah, that's funny That's good Okay, you got me You stung me


Hi everyone, my name is Dr. Isaac Jhoes and I am a student of Shankarayay's academy and I was a student of a PCM student. I was a student of Shankarayay's academy and I was a student of a PCM student. Shankarayay's was my defining point in my journey because that is where I studied in Thodakath. My entire journey was with them and they have been very supportive throughout all my failures and successes. In fact, I feel that the happiness I get is actually with them. I am very thankful for this opportunity. Thank you Shankarayay's academy.


Hi there! Since we're on Twitch, I would nominally be in a hot tub, unfortunately. I have too much electronics down here for any of that. In this presentation, I'm going to show you that badges are awesome, functional pieces of art. They should be lit up and not tucked away somewhere. Specifically, I'm going to show you a couple mods for the 2018 to 2019 NSEC badges, including parts and step by step. So no pawning, no odays, just a frivolous how-to, which I hope you'll have fun with someday yourselves. Just a little about me. Here's some of the stuff that I've messed around with. As you can see, I'm not big on clean presentation. I'm not very wise sometimes, either. This is a picture of me boarding a plane with a blinking box of wires, perhaps even more unwise as I'm telling you all about it now. Probably these slides are all about why you should listen to me, so why should you listen to me? I don't know, you probably shouldn't. So we're going to talk about the 2018 and 2019 NSEC badges, the Sputnik and Brain Beauties. They have a little display, they have some push buttons, they're both Nordic NRF 52, so they have BLD and Bluetooth. They also include an STM32, which is programmed with the Blackmagic Probe firmware. They have addressable LEDs, they're schematics, they're source code. These things are way better than a lot of the badges you might get at a con. They are the perfect candidates for make-your-own-use, and they are beautiful, functional pieces of art. So the process. You probably saw the process a lot on the agenda. Now that you see it, it doesn't amount to much. It might seem a bit like a cat poster, but it's going to help us to frame what we're talking about as we go through the lengthy, sometimes, process of doing the rework. Generally speaking, you have to understand what you've got, you have to imagine what you could do, you have to plan the rework, you have to do the rework, and hopefully you don't have to repeat, but sometimes, maybe more often than not, you do have to do a little bit of re-re-work. Here's an example where I fried a GPIO and I had to migrate that trace to the adjacent trace, so I removed the solder resist and then did a solder bridge, and you can see that's how I moved it over. A little bit of a disclaimer, I don't expect you're going to fry your IOs like I did. I fried that GPIO because I connected the NRF at 3.3 volts to the LEDs at 5 volts, which is just a dumb idea. I definitely shouldn't have done that. You're not going to because I'm planning to, we're planning to use level translators in this rework that I'm going to walk you through. I was lazy, you won't be, but a disclaimer is still warranted. I'm going to do my best. You can do these badge mods. If you have questions, please contact me. These mods can be done with basic tools and simple parts, but I'm not responsible for damage to any of your badge, LED strips, or USB ports that you may plug into. So a round of thanks. At this point in the talk, I would love to ask for a big hand for the badge designers, of course, we're virtual, so we can't do that. So everyone please light up the chat with thanks to the NSEC badge designers, if you please. I have a list of names here that I think contributed to the 2018 to 2019. Badges have done my best. If I missed your name, I'm really sorry. Thank you so much for your work. I love your work. Thanks also to Jonathan Beverly for loaning me his two badges as test subjects for this talk. Thanks to Ken Salt for his reviews and insights. And thanks to Medium Rare for sharing his passion for badge mods with me and also for giving me a couple of cool boards that he's fabbed. First up is the NSEC 2018 badge. Step one in the process is understanding what you've got. Thankfully the designers block diagram page from the schematics on GitHub does a great job of summarizing what's available on this badge. This is a little screen. We have both an STM32 and an NRF 52. There's tons of handy test points, and the test points even include the LED signal. The NRF 52 supports also I2C, and because the NRF 52 allows you to pinmux any function to any pin, you could easily use those push buttons for I2C if you wanted to. Step number two in this process is imagining what you can do. The NRF 52 has SPI and I2C peripherals available, and we could put them anywhere. So any of the SPI peripherals or I2C peripherals that you can buy are up for grabs. That includes screens, LEDs, audio devices, temperature, IMU accelerometers, you name it. A little trip through AliExpress or through Mouser might pique your interest and get those creative juices flowing. A little bit of an aside, we're going to be doing some bit banging on those LEDs. So what is this bit banging? Well, the chips, the system on chips that usually get on the badges, they include peripherals that are built for toggling wires in a very specific way to meet a protocol. When you don't have those peripherals available, usually what the firmware designers do is they'll create software routines to toggle the wires for them, and when they do this, they call it bit banging. So a specific example is this is how the NSEC 2018 and 2019 badges actually do their WS2812 LED control is by bit banging it. So what are these WS2812 LEDs? Well, they have a bunch of different names, sometimes SK2812, sometimes known as Neopixel. They're designed to be daisy chained. You can see how they're actually daisy chained on the strip, excuse me, shown here on the left, the white strip. The output of one LED is the input of the next. They only have three inputs, ground, five volt, and then one other wire. And that one other wire has to take care of sending data and clock and framing, and it does that by doing very specific timings to be toggled. The NSEC 2018 and 2019 badges use a slightly modified version of the WS2812 FXCVP library. And what we're going to do is take that library, bit bang these 2812s and add some more to the badge. So let's plan the rework. We're going to add some connectors to those connectors. We're going to connect strips of WS2812 LEDs. We're going to need to power those strips. You could power WS2812 or Neopixel, whatever you want to call them, strips from 3.3 volt. If we did that instead, we would be limited by the amount of current that the power supply on the badge could supply from that 3.3 volt. It also might not be as bright, so you might not be able to create as much light or as many LEDs as you might want. To avoid those problems, we're going to go straight for the 5 volt, and then we can supply as much current as we could from the USB port we're going to plug into. The problem being that then those LEDs are running a 5 volt, and the NRF 52 is running a 3.3 volt, and we're going to need to introduce some kind of level translation. So this green line connecting the LED to those strips is just notional. We're going to need something else. So what are the parts we're going to need? Well, we need the strips. A lot of these LED strips come with this kind of JST spring clip thingy in the orange circle. The good news is that these connectors, these GST spring clips are actually compatible with 0.1 inch headers. You can also just buy strips that don't have any connectors on them, and you can add connectors. The socket 0.1 inch headers are really good for this. You can cut them and saw them on. We're going to need some wire. Any wire is really going to do. But for the connecting to the SMD components, particularly on the 2019 badge, I think what you're going to want is a 30 AWG quote unquote wire wrap wire. And then I think it's good to have heavier gauge wire for like the current carrying bodges we're going to put together. For that, I like to use hookup wire. We're also going to need 0.1 inch headers, super glue, UV curing glue. I think Bondic is great. And finally, we're going to need those level translators to protect our 3.3 volt domain from the 5 volt LEDs. Here, we're going to be using the Bob 12009 from Sparkfun that you can buy from Digikey. But there's lots of other level translators, and they will also do the job. What kind of tools do you need? Nothing special. You need a soldering iron, think a pencil, you're going to need some solder, flux, all the stuff you would expect to find with your soldering iron. When you get your wire strippers, if you're going to buy them, make sure you get ones that support 30 AWG wire wrap wire, because it's very small and hard to strip. Otherwise, if you're building out a lab or you want to get some more kit, highly recommend Dimitri Nidospasov's Google Sheet, where he tracks all kinds of different options for buying at low price and also high price. So I'll go to that here. We'll post the link somewhere in the chat or the deck will be available. Let's move on to planning the rework in some detail. So we're going to put down that level translator. Obviously, we have to remove the battery pack first, and we're going to need to pick up the five volt and the ground from the board somewhere. There's a handy ground through hole plated via here in the green star. And then for the five, the location nearest to our connectors is the high side of the capacitor, the power management area. There's also the five volt will have to go to the high side of the translator. It'll also have to go to the connectors. Ideally, when we make these connections, they're all made in a star point. And that way you don't have voltage reference problems, particularly if you have bad solder connections. But when you're trying to do rework like this, soldering down two or three wires at the same point can be really hard and usually ends up in the other wires lifting up as you're trying to solder down the new one. So we might want to think of alternate connection points if we have problems. An obvious one is you might be able to connect directly to that USB connection. And then another alternative, which we're going to do in the video is to snake a connection. So it's one continuous wire that's bent and soldered down in one place of the snakes across the PCB, and you'll see some more of that in a bit. And then also we need to connect the ground to the level translator and to the connectors. Same problem here with trying to solder multiple wires at one point. What you can do if you have problems is scrape away the solder, resist a picture here in that green star, the center of the PCB. And that could be an easy place to get ground. Then we're going to need one single flying leaf with a 3.3 volt connection level translator. Then we're ready to connect up those LEDs so we can go from that LED data connection signal that's on those test points over to the level translator then from the level translator out to the connectors. And then we are ready for blinking lights. So here's a little sped up video. We're going to take off that battery connector first.  You don't need to keep the battery connector. And if you don't want it, then you could just reach in there with side cutters and just cut it out. And that could be a lot easier than trying to force it out with heat and prying. But I wanted to preserve Jonathan's battery connector. Then we're going to glue on those headers. So putting them into the socket headers so that they stay aligned and then putting them now with clamps and super glue. Here we go. We're going to attach the level translator to the center of the badge again with super glue. Let's set. Next up and first, we're going to be connecting that power rail. So we're going to use a snake. I'm going to take this hookup wire and remove strip sorry, remove insulation from the middle of the wire in the right locations as I fit it. I mark it with a marker and then I take two cuts and I twist or remove the insulation. And then once I get it in the right shape, I'm going to put sort of protective elements onto those pin headers so that when I solder to the pin headers, the pins stay aligned. I'm adding tacky flux to things so that I'm ready to solder. Put it in the right place, add some heat, add some solder. Hopefully it stays in place. Remember for the large connections, you might need to hold your soldering iron for quite a while to get to some heat, but to connect to something like that SMD capacitor, it's not going to take nearly as much heat. I like to work from the middle outwards when doing these kind of snakes. We're almost got that one connected to the level translator and now we're ready to move on to the connectors. But one thing that I highly recommend is always testing continuity. So how good is your solder join? It's way better to know. You have a bad solder join early in the process than trying to debug what's going on later. So you'll see a lot of testing for continuity. Again, testing for continuity. You'll notice that I like to measure continuity on the outside of the connectors that lets me avoid accidentally testing continuity sort of on something that's the benefit of the solder gets a better picture of what it'll be like when you put it together as well. So I needed to fiddle with this connector a few times to get a better connection. That one looked good. Now we're going to connect up the ground snake and it's the same technique. So the the point one inch sockets, headers that I've connected to those point one inch pin headers. We put those on there so that when you apply heat to the pins and you're connecting that wire, the plastic that's around the pin actually gets pretty liquid. And if you don't have the headers in place on the outside, the pins can kind of float and get all crooked and then you won't be able to connect anything to them when you're done. So it's really important to put the point one socket headers or you know, if you're doing something upside down, you can do it on a breadboard just to make sure that everything stays nice and aligned. So after we connect these up, we're going to test for continuity. It's way better to do it now. Then we're on to attaching the 3.3 volt flying lead to the level translator. The this is smaller wire. So after we connected up, we're going to want to tack it down. You'll see a little black tube and a flashlight, which is a UV flashlight. And the glue is bondic glue. That's my favorite. Here we go. We'll tack it down. All right, then we're on after testing continuity. Then we're going to be on to connecting up the LED signal. If you watch closely, you can see where I connect up the LED signal to the wrong place on the test points. And I won't notice until later, but we have to relive it now and we'll rework it later in the video. So we're starting from the connectors to the level translator and then going backwards to the LED signal, tacking down the little wires of UV glue and then testing continuity. That's important. Needed a little better connection there. So at some point, I realized I had it on the wrong part of the test points, moved it over, connected it up. Tested continuity. And it worked. Excellent. And we use a lot of tacky flux. So it's important to use isopropyl alcohol to clean up that flux so you don't get corrosion later. Here's a picture of the board for your future reference. And here is what it looks like when connected up in my shop. And here is the one that I redid for Jonathan. Looking pretty good. I love the look of this sputnik badge. All right, next up is the 2019 insect badge. First, understand what you got. Once again, they gave us a great block diagram on the GitHub schematics. It's going to look a lot like the 2018 badge. Same NRF 52, it's got a smaller SBI controlled screen. USB one skin past the SDM 32. We have those nice LEDs controlled by a single wire. We do have test points for the test points. Do not include LED data. So this badge is not as rework friendly. There's no easy place to grab five volts on here either. And the only way to get all the data is to get it from one of those SMD resistors. But we have SPI, we can have I2C as well, because this is an NRF 52. So all the possibilities that you can imagine with little add on peripherals are within the realm of the possible here. Let's plan the rework a little same plan. We are going to add connectors and LED strips. We're going to power those LED strips and we're going to pick up LED data from the resistor on the chain picture here in the bottom right. What kind of parts do we need? Same parts. Let's do this. We're going to put the level translator down. We're going to need to pick up five volt and ground. Ground is available on a pin with a pretty big pad on that through hole row. Five volt is on the USB pads, but they're pretty far away. Connecting to those would mean snaking a connector all the way up the badge. We can also pick up five volt from C400 there below the power manager. If if connecting to an SMD resistor is something you're not comfortable and SMD capacitor is something you're not comfortable doing, you can try to strip off some of the solder resist on the trace leading up to that capacitor, which can give you a better solder point, a larger point. You have to be very careful not to take off the solder resist on the ground pad next to that trace or else you could risk bridging five volt to ground and a lot of wick and solder wick will be necessary to take that mess off. So just like before, five volt will need to go to the connectors into the high side of the level translator and the ground also like before needs to go to level translator and the connectors to avoid the problem of trying to solder to multiple wires to one spot, we can instead solder to the ground plane by removing some solder resist pictured here on the right connector. You can also then pick up the ground at the battery terminal pictured here on the left with the green star, which is actually a through hole plated via very easy to solder to. Then we're going to need to pick up three point three volt, put that at the level translator and then it's the same strategy for the LEDs from that resistor to the level translator from level translator to the connectors and then we're ready for blinking lights. So here's a sped up video. We're going to put those point one inch pin headers in place with clamps and superglue. We're going to put the level translator down with some more superglue, let that set, then it's on to the power rail. So we're going to go with a snake again. I trimmed the insulator from the middle by twisting it off after making two cuts with the strippers. Using tacky flux, I like to solder from the middle outwards. Now, there's no good reason to use heavy gauge hookup wire here since the only reasonable way to pick up the five volt after we've connected up this big heavy wire is with a much smaller wire wrap wire, which won't have the same current carrying capacity. So I could have just gone with blue wire here, but I do enjoy the heavier gauge stuff rebending into the right shape. So here we're going to pick up the five volt from C 400, the capacitor and bring it over to level translator. I'm not going to try to solder down on top of that large wire on the circular via on the level translator. I'm going to tack the wire wrap blue bodge wire on to an SMD resistor pad that I know is also connected to five volt to the high side. And it's much easier generally speaking to put one wire one solder location to try to stack the wires together. Testing continuity after putting some bondic down to hold the flying lead down. And I think here I mistakenly I really don't know why I did this, but I moved to the wire to the wrong side of the capacitor right there. And we're gonna have to redo that later. Tacking down that red wire with some bondic, it was really floating up so it needed another pass. So we're going to shape the ground rail connection now. Same technique. Just shape it the right way, take the insulation off in the right places, and then solder it down working from the middle outwards. When you're connecting to grounds, you're going to need a lot more heat to make the solder flow. So be prepared to hold your iron on the ground connection that you're trying to solder to for a long, longer time than you're used to on the rest of the board. And then for example, when you're connecting to those pins, it doesn't take much time at all. So here I think I realized that I put it on the wrong side of the capacitor and shorted five volt to ground.  I've found the problem. Yeah, I did. Okay, now we're going to fix it, put it on the right side. Yep. Let's tack down that wire again with some UV curing glue. Good, I did a little test there wasn't shorted. Now we're going to connect 3.3 volts up to the level translator. It's not really easy to get it from the 3.3 volt through hole on that row that we planned because the red wire is in the way. So we're going to pick it up from the SAO header instead, which is that little square collection of four through holes right there. So I'm trying to connect that. This one had a lot of metal on it. So it took quite a while to heat up. Don't be frustrated. Just hold your iron there and try to get it hot enough for the solder to flow. Testing continuity once again, this is important. If you don't test continuity early, you will have to undo things to test continuity later. Now we're going to pick up the LEDs. So this is a snake with wire wrap. We're going to connect it to the left most column and level translator, then the right most column and level translator, and then on to that resistor and that's one continuous piece of wire, tacking it down with some UV curing glue. Now we're ready to connect up from the level translator to the connectors, tacking it down, testing it. It worked. Excellent. So here's the results for your reference later. This is what it looks like in my shop. And this is the one that I redid for Jonathan looking pretty good. I love these brains too. So you added more LEDs, you're going to have to change the firmware slightly so that it can drive more slots. It has to do more framing for more LEDs on that single one wire data line. It turns out it's very easy to do this. The insect badge designers did a great job putting together a GitHub repo that is easy to modify easy to compile and easy to flash. You're going to have to just change one token in one location, nrf52 slash LED effects on the 2018 badge and then follow the build and flash instructions and they read me. Similarly for 2019 they moved the file, but otherwise it's the same process. Edit it, save it, follow the build instructions. So we talked about how to add LEDs to these badges and I showed you for 2018 to 2019. But what else could you possibly do? There's a whole world of weird stuff you could do to these badges. Great example of doing cool weird stuff to badges is what Medium Rare does. He actually designs these add-ons for badges based on photos before he gets to an event and then integrates them onto the badges there. So pictured here is the cigar add-on for the DC-24 Bender badge by Ann Nott Exor and the Oxfox add-on to the DC-503 party badge at DC-25 which also then turned into the B-Sides Portland badge. I was lucky enough to be gifted an Oxfox by Rare. I also had a 503 party badge and at the same time I was playing with a 2018 insect badge and I noticed that the 2018 insect badge is very similar to the 503 and I thought it was close enough that you could actually dead bug port the 503 badge to an unmodified 2018 firmware and dead bugging is when you flip the chip over and then do all the connections with flying leads on the backside of the chip which I show you pictured here and it does work running an unmodified badge. This is definitely a messy mod. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to kind of demonstrate that it can be done but maybe I plant the seed in your brain. You have an idea of how you could do a port or a mod at this point and that's the gist of it. You know these conference badges they're all beautiful works of functional art and with few exceptions they're potential debboards for your experiments. What can you plan? How can you make your own use? I'll list a couple examples and badges that are going to be easy for projects. So there's the waving cat badge by Deboops. The Mr. Robot badge is modifiable as is the ThoughtCon hex A badge and all of the and not XOR badges. There's a lot of those. Also HHV is a community that's all about this kind of modification and making your own use. We would love to hear your ideas and to help you however you can. We have a discord of course. Come and join us. Thank you so much for your attention. I'm really looking forward to the discussions that will follow this with Eric Ebenchuk. Hope you had a good conference. Bye!


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