Why does livestock research matter? 61% of all human diseases are transmitted from animals. Many other diseases such as HIV AIDS, measles and smallpox jumped species from animals to humans many years ago. One new disease emerges every four months. 75% of these originate from animals. But wait! Domestic animals provide food high in micronutrients, high in protein and fiber. They also provide fuels and raw materials for more than 800 million poor people in the world. Research is urgently needed to maximize the health benefits and minimize the health risks of animal agriculture.


I was looking forward to reading this. It's come so highly recommended. And when I posted a video of it in my last monthly reads, more than one viewer expressed excitement, which is unusual. But I have to tell you, there is not one aspect of this book that I like.  I think I have ever seen a professional science fiction writer of this caliber ever dare to put on paper. No, I do not recommend this book. Please remember to press that like button. It helps my videos get seen. And then subscribe so you can come back next time. I do science fiction book, TV, and movie reviews all the time. And please consider becoming a patron. There's a link in the description below.


Welcome to Sheboygan County government working for you. My name's Adam Payne, county administrator and co-host of this program with chairman Tom Wagner. And as you know, every month we strive to focus on a different department, some different roles and responsibilities of county government. And today we have a new face in front of us, Matt Grenoble, our new airport superintendent, airport manager, he goes by a number of good titles. Matt, welcome. Thank you. I think Matt started, has it been two, three months? How long has it been? Five months. Five months. How time flies. And I know Matt is really in the thick of things out at the airport. We were just meeting with Greg Schneller, transportation director before this program and Greg was sharing how busy Matt is and again a lot of good things happening including preparations for the Ryder Cup and looking to improve upon the airport. So Matt, let's start with just sharing a little bit about yourself. Give our viewers a little flavor for who Matt Grenoble is. Yeah, so I was born and raised in Virginia, a little bit far from home, but I've kind of been bouncing around all over the country. My initial career path was to be a commercial pilot. I worked my way up through the rankings, got all my licenses and ratings to pursue that career. Got my undergraduate degree at Radford University in Virginia. And after college got a job working for a company in Florida. I was flying, worked my way up to be a co-pilot in the Learjet. I started doing that for a little bit and realized that while I still love aviation, I did not enjoy the career aspect of being a pilot. It is a fantastic career, but it just wasn't for me. So I decided to go back to school, get a master's degree in aviation safety and aviation management and started down the path of airport management with the ultimate goal of being an airport manager. So that led me out west to an internship in Utah and working in Washington State at a couple of different airports. And then met my wife, got married out there and she's from Chicago. We wanted to move back closer to family before settling down and having kids. So we've got jobs out here in the Milwaukee area. She works at University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. And I was working at Waukesha County Airport for the last six years until October of last year. So Virginia, Chicago, or we're bringing good people to Sheboygan County? Definitely. And I know I first heard of you in your track record because of Waukesha County and the excellent job they do running the airport there. And so we were so tickled to see you join us here in Sheboygan County. I can't believe it's been five months already. It's been a whirlwind. What's been your first impression of the Sheboygan County Memorial Airport and how would you describe it to folks? First impression is, I mean, I've known about the airport, I've visited the airport before, I got the job. So I always saw it as a great little airport that I would potentially love to manage one day. So it has a lot going on already and it has a tremendous, a lot of potential for future growth and I have a fantastic team, fantastic leadership with the county. So it's been really a great fit for me. And I get a kick out how you describe that. A great little airport is in the grand scheme of things across the country. It is a rather small airport but we know it's pretty busy, pretty active. Just what is the size and scope of the Sheboygan County Memorial Airport? Yeah, and actually we are considered a large general aviation airport. So that means we do not have any commercial services. It's all private aircraft that come and go. It has a public use airport, it's open 24-7. As far as size-wise, we have about 760 acres. We have two runways, one being 6,800 feet long. And the secondary runaway is 5,000 feet long. We have about 80 tenants on the field and we do about 40,000 operations a year as a take-offs and landings. Years ago it used to be a standalone department and just like many areas throughout Sheboygan County we consolidated it as part of the transportation department. Obviously you're a division of the transportation department and a very important one. Yet, you know, as you said, strong staff, good staff, but a small division. Give our viewers a flavor for the scope. How many staff do you have? What's your annual operating budget? So we have three full-time staff included myself and we have one part-time member. Our budget is about $460,000 a year and we're taking about $200,000 in tax levy. And then you may have reviewed a report more recently than I, but if memory serves, hasn't the state periodically done assessments or cost-benefit reviews? And it's like for every dollar we put in we get about 25 or 27 back to the local economy or something along those lines. It sounds about right. The number that I saw was $26 million economic impact or output to the community. So it's really significant. We support over 80 jobs just at the airport alone. So, you know, have tax levy from our taxes that are generated by our tenants. And so we have a tremendous impact on the local community. And of that $407,000 budget, I think about $250 property tax levy. So it's just a tremendous value for our community. I mean, the economic impact obviously is huge and it's supporting some really successful companies. Correct. So obviously you and your staff don't do everything out there. We have a fixed-based operator. Describe the role of a fixed-based operator. So a fixed-based operator, you think of them like a full service gas station for private aircraft. They provide everything from aircraft fuel. That's their big thing that they sell and provide. But they also provide services such as rental cars, catering. They can coordinate catering service for aircraft that come and go. They can provide overnight storage for aircraft that are tie-downs or in their heated hangers. So they really handle, they're kind of the face of the airport when someone comes and goes if they're not based at the airport. They typically go straight to the fixed-based operator for services. So they are a key partner with the airport and providing those services. So they're providing direct services to folks who are flying in and out and the tenants there. And what would you say are the predominant responsibilities of you and your staff? Our responsibilities are to ensure that the airport is safe, modern, and efficient for our air travelers and our customers and our tenants. So safety is key, obviously, in ensuring that the airport is safe with our runways and taxways are always safe and well-maintained. Yeah, ranges from snow removal to repairing fences to wildlife abatement. Exactly, you name it. We have to wear a lot of different hats, all of us at the airport, especially with such a small staff. It's not unlikely to see me out there, my gritty clothes helping the guys out or something if I need be. So we definitely have our hands full. That's a good team and a 24-7 operation. Just how busy is the airport? About how many flights are coming and going on a daily or weekly basis? The average daily is around 200 takeoffs and landings a day. In the wintertime, that's obviously less. In the summertime, it's more. So but the average about 200 per day and it comes out to around 40,000, between 40 and 50,000 takeoffs and landings a year. And that's quite a number. I've often thought that our airport, some people I don't think have ever been out there and certainly a lot of people I think don't fully appreciate just how busy that little airport is, right? I mean a lot going on out there. Wonderful. What are you finding with wildlife abatement right now with deer or turkeys, geese? I know from time to time you have to take care of some problems out there. Yeah, exactly. We have a fence that surrounds the whole airport that really helps keep the deer out. But sometimes they do make their way in one way or another if it's a gate that's left open or something. But the birds, obviously it's hard to control, stop them from coming. We have employee, a various number of tactics, habitat modification to try to eliminate the water sources for the waterfowl especially, the geese and the ducks. But also a few years ago, the airport acquired a system of remote bird cannons is what they call and it's propane powered. Gun that sounds, all it does is it make a sound. It sounds like a gun going off. And it's a really fancy system. It works really well. There's a flock of geese on the runway. Even the FBO has the ability to press the button and fire off these bird cannons and it scares the birds away. It's been a fantastic tool. But then also the staff members have pyrotechnics they can shoot at the wildlife to scare them off. Obviously our first goal is to scare them off peacefully essentially. Right, right. Yeah, well you and your team do an excellent job I think over the last 20 years it's been far and few between but I know every now and then a deer needs to be taken out or you have to do something to make sure we protect the airplanes and most importantly the people in them. So final question before I turn it over to Charmin Wagner. Give our viewers a flavor for the type of tenants that we have out there. Who's utilizing the airport and what's the breadth of that utilization? Yeah, so the heart and soul of the airport is really our small general aviation community. We have about 40 private hangars that house smaller piston propeller driven aircraft. And there's a lot of flight training at the airport as well. We have a great flying club, she's a flying club that provides flight training for new pilots. But we also have several industry or corporation, corporate tenants at the airport as well. And then we have two commercial operators at the FBO, a fixed based operator and as well as a aircraft maintenance shop or the aviation. And if you're not familiar with where the Sheboygan County airport is, it's right off of TT, right? Highway 23 and TT and it's worth taking a look. It doesn't take long to drive through but I think if you've never been out there you're gonna be impressed. Thank you Matt, nice overview. Tom. Thank you Adam, welcome Matt. Thank you. Besides being responsible for the upkeep and maintenance you're also involved in some capital improvements out there. Where yet with that? So some of the capital improvements we've been having the last few years. We had the previous last capital projects included a rehabilitation of our taxiways. Or one of the taxiways, Taxway Bravo as well as a rehabilitation of our main terminal ramp which was completed last year. Some of the pavement was reaching the end of its useful life and so it was rehabilitated. Obviously wanted to get that done before the Ryder Cup so we expect a heavy load of traffic. So those are the last two projects we have this year. We have starting a plane for connecting one of our taxiways, again, Taxway Bravo that currently partially parallels one of our runways. And right now the plan is to actually connect those two so it's a full parallel taxiway. So we're gonna start planning that project this year and then start construction next year on that. We're also gonna be acquiring a new piece of snow removal equipment this year. We have a current tractor that's reached the end of its useful life and so we're looking to get another multi-use tractor that can be used during the winter time for blowing the snow and also Brooming has a big Broom on the front that I'll be able to utilize but also using it in the summertime for mowing. Because you can't use salt or other type of snow or move out there, right? Because when I fly commercially and I'm out in Mitchell or someplace like that you never see anything like that. They're always just having the snowblower, whatever. I assume that would be, go ahead. Yeah, no, sorry, we cannot use salt, unfortunately. It is inexpensive and effective, however, it is very corrosive. There are chemicals that are out there to use and that's what we do use a liquid de-ice chemical or use it sparingly because of the expense on it but if we need to use it, if it's really icy, it is very effective. So we do utilize that but typically we use the plows, the snow broom and the snowblowers to clear the runways and all the surfaces. Yeah, okay, thank you. You talked about some of the recent improvements in that and who has some of the oversight over, who do you report to, you report to Adam, obviously, but who else do you engage with as far as that? Yeah, so we have an airport advisory committee that's made up primarily of airport tenants but also local community leaders and what we meet and discuss, we'll talk about any future projects or current projects or any issues going on and update the committee on that and then it gives them a great opportunity to give us the feedback on any of the issues or concerns they may have. When it comes to planning any projects, we really rely heavily on the committee and our community as a whole to give us the feedback for it to help us with planning this. Since we're all in this together, we wanna make sure that we see address everyone's needs. So that committee is really highly valuable for us and then we also report to the Transportation Committee and they're responsible for setting the airport policy and they also approve our leases, provide recommendations on their airport leases, approve the budget every year and any ordinances that we may have to put forward. Right, yeah, this will be your first year in the budget and that's already starting. We kinda do a budget year-round now, I think almost, you know, everybody's thinking ahead. So you talked about some of the more recent improvements completed at the airport. What do you think in the next five years that you're gonna be looking at if you could share some of that? Yeah, and one of the big, large improvements that didn't touch base yet on is the big ones, the customs project that's going on right now but then also after the taxiway connection of Taxway Bravo and the Equipment Acquisition, you know, I've been told that we don't have any major projects in the works so that's gonna be a big part of my job now is to start planning that next five to 10 years out. You already have some projects in mind that, you know, we have some drainage issues on the airfield that very well could turn into a large capital project and to, again, modify that habitat to avoid, to mitigate the wildlife coming in. So I'm walking in a little bit with a blank slate, you know, in a sense, once we get these next couple of projects out of the way, which is really exciting for me. Sure. Could you talk a little bit about the customs in the Welcome Center? Yeah. Because that's a big project for Sherbrooke County. Yeah, so the customs and general aviation terminal facility, it's gonna be a joint facility so one half of the building will be for U.S. customs to aircraft flying in from overseas can fly directly into the airport and clear customs there, here. And then the other half of the building will be for airport administration and then there'll be a part that's a general, you know, basically used for general aviation traffic that may need just to come in. If they don't require any services from an FBO, they don't need any fuel, they can come into that facility, use the restroom, do some flight planning and go on that way. It began construction in December. I was looking to open, be wrapping up in June and hoping to open by August 1st and then obviously be in full operations by the Ryder Cup. Right, and the Kohler Company is, of course, supporting the county and especially in the customs area with some financial support. Correct, yes. Over the years, which makes it ever, it's incorrect me if I'm wrong, but because I've talked to some people on this, there isn't gonna be customs out there, there aren't gonna be staff 24-7 out there waiting for the planes to come in, right? Correct, it'll be, they'll have set hours, we haven't fully set those hours yet, but they will be basically 40 hours a week, Monday through Friday, but they will be available to come out on the weekends if somebody calls ahead of time and sets it on. Yeah, kinda on call, right? Correct, yeah, good. So you talked a little bit about the economic benefits of the airport, 26, 27 million dollars, can you, do you have any specific relative to that? Obviously it generates a lot of money, the income, the taxes that the people work there, all generate, anything else you wanna share with that? Yeah, I mean, the fuel sales generate revenue from our base tenants, but also that the aircraft, the transit aircraft that come in, they come in and usually fuel up, generating revenue, we have the leases, the ground, anyone that builds a hangar at our airport, they lease the land from us, and they build the hangar with their own funding, but so we get that lease revenue on an annual basis, but also we're a great spot for training the next generation of pilots. We have a terrible pilot shortage in the industry, and so having a place for light train is really important. And also medical flights, we get medical flights and medical emergency flights, timely flies in, law enforcement flights, so the airport has a huge benefit to the community. Yeah, thank you. I think one of the things you said that I think will stand out to people who aren't that familiar with the airport is 200 landings and takeoffs a day. I think that's a shocking number to a lot of people that is that busy, right? I mean, that tells you something. So thanks, Matt. Thank you, Tom. As our viewers get a flavor for all the things that happen at the airport, you know what I found remarkable over the years is just all the growth, all the infrastructure, all the investment, and it's been one of the better collaborative opportunities we've had because generally speaking, for every $10 we put in, we get 90 or thereabouts from the state. I mean, it's really been a good relationship. Touch on that a little bit. How does that work? Yeah, some projects are eligible for federal funding depending on the size, scope, location of the project. The FAA for these larger capital projects will chip in 90% of the project and then the state will chip in an extra 5%, leaving only 5% for the county to pick up, which is an amazing deal. Amazing. So if it's not funded by the, if it's not a federally eligible project, it could be eligible through the state as well. You know, we could get a 50-50 split with the state or an 80% 20% split or some projects or even funded 100% by the state. They've been fantastic partners. We've been really lucky to have a great state Bureau of Aeronautics and as well as the Federal Aviation Administration's offices nearby, so. And the Bureau of Aeronautics is part of the State Department of Transportation, who not only is helping us make good things happen at the airport, but is now expanding Highway 23 and the county board invested the 1.5% sales tax into our transportation system so we can more fiscally, responsibly maintain our transportation system, sustainable revenue source. I mean, when you, when we talk about the area of transportation in Sheboygan County of our 19 departments, right now I would have to say this is one of our strongest areas of sustainability because of the good relationships we have with the state as well as the fact that the board's really made an investment to make sure we're taking care of our transportation system. It's wonderful. Yeah. It's wonderful. And I think you're gonna bring tremendous vision and new energy to our airport, continue to improve upon it, and back to the customs facility. I mean, there again is another example. Tom and I both heard some people in the community say, well, how much is the county spending on that? And here the state is picking up half the cost. Coal or company is picking up the operational cost of the U.S. Custom Facility with user fees and time to cover that. And staff like you are getting finally a really nice area to report to because of course your office and where your staff are currently in, that's a pretty tired space. Yeah, it is. Yeah, so nice work with that. Thank you. We just came from a meeting talking about the rider and little do people know in this community all the behind the scenes planning that goes into the rider cup coming up here in September. You talked about the customs facility needing to be up and running by the rider cup. We seem to hear that a lot. Share with our viewers some of the initiatives, some of the planning that you're part of to prepare for the rider cup. Yeah, there's a lot of moving pieces. We've been working with a lot of different entities as are everyone else as part of this whole event. We've been working very closely with the Bureau of Aeronautics as well as the FAA. Obviously we're gonna have a very large increase in traffic that week. And normally we're not a controlled airport. We did not have a controlled tower. However, that week we expect to have so much traffic we are getting a temporary control tower into the airport. And it's the same thing happened through the previous PGA events. And so it's nice we have a good template already for how that operates and parking plans and such. So it's just working with those two entities as well as our local partners or the FBO. It's really important that we work closely with them on parking plans. And so it's, and now we have this new piece of the puzzle that the customs facility. So it's a lot going on, but that everyone has been ready and willing to jump in and help out where needed. It's been a really good planning process so far.  Yes, yeah, that's the plan. Seeing quite a bit of helicopter traffic it'll be people can fly in to the airport to Sheboygan and then take a helicopter directly from the airport to the golf course. So we're working out the logistics with them shortly. And to your point earlier, we do get some revenue from fuel sales. Obviously that helps immensely the main provider, the FBO. But we get some revenue as well and the more revenue we get from fuel sales or for tenants leases, the less pressure we put on the property taxpayer, which is a good thing. Exactly. Yeah. I know I can speak if you don't mind. For the County Board, what we like is especially those 90% federal support, 10% or 95 counting the state in their 5% levy. Those are a wonderful relationship. We just love to expand it to other areas but we understand that's what works. Yeah, exactly. It is definitely really great when we have it done. You also touched earlier, that touched on earlier the security at the airport. And of course that scenario over the last decade that has gotten so much attention, whether it's the airport, whether it's the security enhancements we recently put in our courthouse. Please touch on what are some of the security, what kind of security is at the airport now and where do you see that being further enhanced in the future? We have a perimeter fence, like I said earlier on, that surrounds the whole airport. And most of that perimeter fence has a bar bar at the top as well. And we have vehicle gates, all of our access gates are locked. Most of them are locked with padlock but then we have quite a few that are also automated gates that you would need a key fob or a card to gain access through. We maintain that system. So if anyone tenants or employees, if anyone needs access, they come to us to get that key fob and we enter them to a system and get that to them. We also have cameras that are stationed at the gates and other various parts of the airport. And part of the customs project is to upgrade that camera system. Some of those cameras are aging and in need of replacement. So that's another big part of the project is upgrading that system. And finally, in the last few minutes we have, and this may be the one event that people do recognize when it comes to our Memorial Airport. That's the Wings and Wheels event.  What can you share about Wings and Wheels and that upcoming activity? What is it all about? Yeah, Wings and Wheels is a fantastic event held every year. It's put on by the local chapter of the EAA. It is a free event. It's on Father's Day every single year. It features at least 70, I think over 70 vintage cars as well as over 30 vintage aircraft. There's a pancake breakfast in the morning and from what I understand, they also have model trains and also helicopter rides. So it's an absolutely fantastic family event. Definitely plan to bring my whole family out to attend and really looking forward to it. And I'm looking forward to working with the EAA chapter on planning and so. I've been to some events out there and it was amazing how many people from the community come out for that event. It's really well done. The Aviation Heritage Center I think also supports that. Correct. They have a nice building there. What have you learned about the Aviation Heritage Center and how does that further add to the value of our airport? Yeah, they're a great organization. We've been working very closely with them, obviously with the customs building going up right next to them. We have some good impacts to them but we've been working hand in hand with them on the project as well as any other events going on at the airport. So they've been great partners. We get people that fly in just to come to the Heritage Center. So it is an absolutely great resource at the airport and not every airport has something like this. So it's really a gem. I like the history component that it shares, the background there as well as, I think they rent out their facility for special events. Yes, they do, yeah. So if you're looking for a venue or a public meeting or even a family reunion or I don't know if they do. A wedding, yeah, they have most weddings, yeah. They have certain limitations on how many people they can hold out there but it's a nice venue. Exactly, yeah. Well, Matt, thank you so much for your time. You covered a lot of ground in 30 minutes. If you have any questions for Matt or anything on our transportation system, certainly don't hesitate to stop out at the airport. Don't hesitate to contact your county board supervisor or Chairman Tom Wagner or myself. I was glad to talk about transportation issues or areas where we can improve. Matt, we're glad to have you aboard. Thank you, I'm glad to be aboard. Yeah, it's just a pleasure to get to know you better and I can't believe how the time's flying. So thanks again. Next month, we're gonna turn the chairs a little bit here and the gentleman to my left, your right, is going to be in the hot seat. Chairman Tom Wagner is gonna be completing his fourth year as our county board chair and by county board rule ordinance you can only serve two consecutive terms. So Tom's gonna be moving on as county board chair. We're glad he's gonna continue with the county board as a whole but we're gonna talk a little bit about the last four years and the really good initiatives, improvements that happened during Chairman Wagner's term. So I hope you'll join us until then. Stay warm, stay set, safe, and we'll see you in a month.


Question is from Jeremy Longprey. What are the positives and negatives of being a trainer? Do you have any advice that you wish you knew when you first started? Hard to get rich. Yeah, I was gonna say. It's not a money grab. If you're super driven by money and you just wanna make a lot of money. Which I was. Yeah, get into finance or investments. Work with money, that's how you're gonna make money. Either that or my defense, because I am this person, I was driven first by money before I was the passion to become a personal trainer. But because I was so driven by money and I fell in love with personal training. You figured out a way. I've exactly, it forced me to get better and better at my craft because just being a good trainer, you're not gonna get rich at all. And even being great, probably you're not. So it really forced me to continue to reinvent myself, to grow, to learn, to push, to be at a whole other level, to get to that small percent that make it to that kind of revenue. So yeah, that would be a negative, right? A negative would be it's a. Potentially, right? If you're trying to be a trainer. It's a struggle in the beginning. If you're trying to be a trainer and you're not passion driven by fitness, you're gonna have a tough time because that's what takes you through everything. Here's another negative. It's exhausting. It's a very exhausting job. Now you might think, well, why? You're not doing construction or not doing it. Carry the emotions of other people. Not just that, that's a big part of it. The other part of it is let's say you work an eight hour shift. Yeah, you gotta split, you gotta split. Yeah. Very few trainers work a nine to five. Not only that, but let me take it a step further. Let's say you work an eight hour shift at an office. You have, there's a lot of time in that eight hours where you could take a break. You don't need to talk to anybody. You can relax, you could go on the internet, talk to your friend. If you're training eight clients in a day, first off, like what Adam said, never are they back to back. If you're training eight clients in a day, you're there for 12 hours because there's always gaps. But number two, you're on all eight hours. There's no break. Client shows up, I'm working. There is no break in between and that can be really, really exhausting. You determine the energy. And I think that's what you're getting at.  Now some of the positives are if you make it this, this is why too, right away when I meet like another trainer and I ask him like how long you've been doing it. And if they've been doing it for beyond five years, I know they've already, they're probably pretty good at what they do because it's really tough if you're not a good trainer to have made it past five years because the things that we're talking about, even if you're really good, you're gonna struggle with this. Your schedule is gonna be tough.  You're not gonna make a lot of money.  But one of the positives are once you do establish yourself and you build a good reputation for what you do and you're known for being a great trainer and the referrals begin to come in, then you can start to get very picky about who you train. And it took me a long time. Can you get to hang out with cool people? Yeah, I mean, it definitely got to a point where towards the back half for sure of my 20 years is I definitely got really picky with who I train. And then my clients got really exciting because I couldn't wait to see them because not only was I getting paid good because I had also moved my rates up by that time, but I was also gonna learn something. I always knew I was gonna get something from them. Like that would continue to, and that is the same thing that makes us very passionate about the podcasting is, that's even more accelerating than what training was. Training I love because I've got some CEO or I've got some author, I've got some brilliant tech person. And I love to communicate between sets and ask questions. And so I get this like front row seat to these brilliant minds that I can pick whatever questions I wanna ask them because we're on each other's time. That is extremely valuable. And you develop a close relationship because these people see you for one to three undivided attention hours a week for years. So they spend more undivided time with you than they do with most of their family members. So you actually develop a really close relationship and it's great when they're successful smart people. I mean, one of the reasons why I love trained doctors, you guys know I love science and I love medicine and I love health. I would ask them all kinds of insane questions and because we're friends, they would talk to me about them and they valued the time as well. So it was really cool. The other part is this, is that there's a lot of jobs that are out there where you don't really feel your value. You don't really feel the meaning behind what you're doing because you're either pushing buttons or you're making a small part of a big product. And so you don't necessarily see the impact that you have in society. When you're training people and you're doing a good job and they lose weight, get better shape, they feel no more pain, their health improves, you see it directly and so you have this incredible sense of meaning.  Totally. I think that, I mean, that's initially what people get into, I think, personal training if they're really passionate about it.  And I totally agree.   Well, it's, Sal's point about the meaning thing of all the professions, it's probably, it's not the only one. There's plenty of other ones that I think like doctors would say they probably feel similar with this too is that it reveals your purpose really quick. Like if this was what you were meant to be doing, like the first time that you do something where you like fundamentally change somebody's life, like somebody came to you, they're, you know, 45 years old, they've struggled with weight loss forever, they're obese, they've tried this diet, they've done this and you unlock something for that person that like fundamentally changes them forever. It gets me emotional just talking about it because it reminds me of all those feelings that I've had when I've had a client like this. When you get that, holy shit, does that provide such a larger purpose in what you're doing? And if you just remember that as a trainer, that that's your true North, then everything that you do before that to lead to that will really help guide you in your career and that's extremely rewarding. Yeah, it's, to me, it's like, it's truth. It's like, it's like finding truth. You know, it's like, I feel like it's like, it's deep like that. Like you're, you're on this journey to find like answers like that. If you have one little key for them, that's a truth that they didn't have before. You know, and it's like something that you can help them find and you're like sort of this oracle, like you're here, here's where it is, but you have to find it yourself. And the reward in it is that, you know, they understand it and then they apply it themselves. That's the real reward. Yeah, and it's just, it's positive. It's always, it's always positive. And it can be with people who are totally different from you. You know, I've had clients that are completely differing political views and religions and whatever, but they're there to get healthy. I help them get healthy. And the, it's incredible. You know, some of them, I remember phone calls I would get from clients. I had one, I've told this story before. I had an old, older client who came in on her day off to tell me she was so excited. She was 80 years old. She had lost her independence. Her daughter came in and hired me to train her. And after about seven or eight months of training, this woman regained her independence and she came into my gym on her off day to tell me that she was able to go grocery shopping for the first time in two years by herself. She was able to close the trunk of her car all by herself and she made the trip to come into my gym, walked in, gave me a hug and said, I'm independent again because of the training that you've given me. And that right there was worth, it's worth more than money to me. It was worth way more than money. It's what kept me a personal train for a long time, believed me, I had clients offer me jobs and wanted to pay me more. And I was like, you know, I need to feel like I have some meaning behind what I do. You know, not to end this on a negative note, but we're all getting emotional and positive.  But it just reminded me of something that really bothers me and it was something that I spoke to a lot as a leader of trainers for many, many years is the scarcity mindset.  But then you're also scared to direct your people towards information that it could be provided in a better way through them than yourself in fear of losing financial gain. It's such a scarcity mindset and we'll put a ceiling on your cap of how great you become. One of the things that made me very successful as a trainer is I never feared that because I truly believe that if my true north was that my ultimate goal was to unlock that key for this person is to provide that life-changing feeling or moment for them or forever change their behaviors. And if everything I was giving towards them wasn't doing that or even if I was doing things for them but I knew there was somebody else that could provide even more value for that person, I was okay with potentially losing them as a client to give them the answer or to help them better. If you come from that place, it always comes back to infold. I might have lost a hundred percent. I might have lost $150 an hour because I sent her over to Dr. Ruscio who really needs to dive into her gut.  Even though that I lost the $150 an hour client, I pass it over to somebody who I think is really gonna change that person's life. What ends up happening is two, three years down the road that person has not only talked about the great things that Mike did but she'll always remember that it was me who sent her over there to help her. I get just as much credit for that and it may not directly affect my pocket right then and there but I always end up getting three, five, 10 other people reaching out to me because of that. And you know what's funny? I've never lost the client because of that. It's never happened to me. If anything, they come to me more because I guided them in the right direction. As far as advice that I'd have for myself when I first started, I wish Mind Pump existed. I wish because my personal training knowledge came from certifications, bodybuilding magazines, my own research and my own experience. If Mind Pump had existed back then, I would have shaved. I mean, you can't ever replace experience but I would have shaved a good, five years off the amount of time it took me to go from sucky trainer to not bad trainer. You know?


Hi everybody, welcome to the latest episode from the rock to the cloud with me Tom Hall. I'm here today talking all things Windows Server, talking Azure, talking hyper converged data center. All of that kind of goodness is what we talk about and you know, as always, I've managed to, I've managed to rangle a special guest. Again, we're very, very lucky to have today an actual proper expert. As always, you're not just listening to me babble on about absolute rubbish and we've got a proper actual certified expert in the house. So before we talk about what we're going to talk about today, I would like to introduce our guest. So it's Pierre Raman. He's here all the way from where are you coming just from today, Pierre? I am located in Ottawa, Canada. Canada, Ottawa, Canada, that sounds so exotic to us Brits who, you know, I'm coming close from, in between swindering and redding, not quite as, not doesn't sound quite as exciting as where you're from. Okay, as you mentioned, I'm here. I'm a senior cloud advocate, which really is those titles don't really mean much. What it does mean is that my work is to promote the platform, but also to take feedback from the community. And in my case, my community is the hybrid worker, the on-prem server hugger, the cable puller, and the security people and operations, all of those people put together, that's my community. So they tell me what they like and don't like about our products in terms of this doesn't work in this scenario and so on. And then I work with the product group to see whether or not we can address that. So that's my role in a nutshell. I've been in IT for, and I'm going to be aging myself here severely. I've been in IT here for about 30 years. Back in the days of Novel, I think the first one I installed was Novel 1.5 or Novel 2. Back when the most powerful PC we had in the office was an 8088 with the math coprocessor. Nice. And it was probably about the same size as the room you're in now.  So you're only as old as the games you play, so we very much appreciate you making the time and like I said it's good to have somebody who actually knows what to talk about. So what are we going to talk about today? I think we're going to talk about storage migration service, which is SMS. Now, where I'm from in the UK, we call text messages SMS. I don't know what they're called in Canada, but if they're called SMS, so like I might send SMS in somebody, but we're not texting anybody, are we Roman? We're going to know what is storage migration service? Can you maybe explain that to everybody? Yes. First, SMS. Microsoft really loves our acronym. We use them anywhere. We even have two different division within Microsoft internal that are both the same acronym, CSE. One is customer software engineering and the other one is core service engineering, but we have the same. So when you're ever telling somebody, oh, I'm working with CSE, you have to be a bit more precise. That's the case in this one too. So SMS or storage migration service is a service that's built into Windows admin console and sits on top of Windows that allows you to migrate file shares. It's a feature in Windows Server 2019. It's a feature of Windows admin console that runs on top of 2019 and other versions. Cool. Okay. What versions of Windows Server can you migrate from? Because I'd imagine you can probably only go back so far. Well, anything really that's a Windows Server since 2003. 2003, okay. Because really, it leverages SMB and it leverages existing technologies that have been present for a number of years. Okay. Okay. And it is decades because sometimes you have to remind people that are in IT that we are in 2021 because if you're still running your server on 2003, that is a long, long time ago. I mean, that's 18 years ago, that's like two decades. Yep. It's a long time. I appreciate it. You know, you were only working in IT for 10 years when that happened. So, you know what I mean? And you really think about too that those servers not only because the mentality of the IT worker or the operations folks is if it ain't broke, don't touch it. Yeah. So if your file server is there and it's running and it's doing its job and you've still got capacity and like everything else is hunkidory, that's fine. However, with older servers that because they're out of support and our support lifecycle is as five years of mainstream and five years of extended for a total of 10 years in terms of security patches, for example. So those servers are no longer patches, patched. So those servers and if you're looking at 2003 and 2008, the version of SMB that's used is not as secure as the current version of SMB that's been, that's let's say 2019, 2016, 2019 servers are running. Yeah. So if you've got older versions of those protocols running, then you are vulnerable for other things such as crypto malware where somebody's going to drop a phishing attack on your company, somebody's going to click on the link because users click on every link that's in their emails and then all of a sudden all your files are encrypted and you don't know why that happened. Yeah, I'm not saying that the current version is going to completely protect you, but it's going to mitigate some of those risks. And I guess that would be a conversation for another episode. No, I mean, absolutely. And you know, security is one thing, capacity is another, you know, speed and performance, all of these things come into it. And you know what, 10 years worth of support, i.e., we actually support our software for 10 years is that I think is pretty reasonable. You know, and it's not like, you know, that's not like us forcing you to buy new software. It's just there are improvements and surely you want those improvements. It's not only reasonable, but it's also predictable because this this policy was put in back in the days of Steve Vommer, where our customers were saying that they were confused as to this, because if you had this server, if you had like a SQL server, it was supported for X amount of years, if he had a Windows server was supported for X amount of years, there was no real standard. When that policy came in, every enterprise product had to adhere to that policy, five years of mainstream support, five years of extended support for a total of 10 years.  Now, SMS, so I'm just going to text you, SMS, storage migration service. Does that allow people to do more than is it just a Windows server service? You know, can you do other other platforms, other sources? So, you know, the storage migration service itself runs on Windows. However, you can migrate from all of those Windows servers that we've mentioned, 2003, 2008, 2008 R2, even to the small business servers, and the essentials servers that we had for a while, and even the storage servers that have been the SKU for storage servers. But you can also migrate from Linux, and we've tested and we've got support for, and I'm looking at my list right now, so I don't forget any, CentOS, Debian, Linux, Red Hat, Enterprise, Suzy Linux, Ubuntu, and a number of versions of SAMBA servers. So you can migrate from those to a Windows server file share. You can also migrate from a clustered. So if you've got a clustered file server, you can actually migrate from the cluster to a new server. And the reason we do that, and the reason that that server, or that service, I should say, is really needed. If any of you listeners have ever tried to migrate a file share from one server to another, typically we used to use that like RoboCopy or something to that effect. You have no idea how many parameters, flags, files, hidden files that it misses. So you copy it and then you copy it again and, oh, all of a sudden you've got more files than you did before, or you think you're done and somebody says, hey, what about this file? And this is a way to organize it so that you can migrate, but also manage the cutover because somebody in a document is going to have a link to whack, whack, server name, whack, file share, name, whack, file name. Well, if you migrate to a new server, what happens to all these documents with these links that are embedded in it? Yeah, yeah. And that's one of the strengths. Yeah, you don't, and also you don't want to miss, like, whacking people. No. That's cool. Yeah, I love it. Again, like ID pros from across the pond are always a whacking stuff, which always, it makes me laugh every time you guys say it's brilliant. And so, you know, it's not just like different platforms that you've come from. So it's not just Linux, you know, Ubuntu or in fact, well, Samba server, which is obviously everyone's favorite server because it's Samba time, right? But in terms of, like, yeah, exactly, we just have a quick Samba. Come on, Pierre. Yeah, you really don't want to see me dance. No, I love it.  Well, it doesn't care. Okay, like the service itself doesn't care because it talks to the server. So if the server has got different drive type, if it's a connected to a fiber channel to a LAN, where you've got your storage mounted, it doesn't care because it's talking to the server, it's not talking to the storage directly, which is another one is that, not too long ago, I can't remember the exact dates, we do have support for some network attached storage devices such as like the NetApp, the FAS arrays, the CIFS servers, or basically, sir, running on tap nine. So, network storage account, now attached storage is now becoming more and more supported as a source of a migration. Okay. And that makes sense. I suppose you can then consolidate multiple sources and multiple servers, all at the same time, I'm guessing. Well, you can run multiple migration at the same time. Consolidating servers from multiple sources to a single destination is not necessarily supported because there are some inherent problems there where you may have, because typically, IT pros and operations folks, when they set up a server, they tend to set them all up the same, where you put the OS on the drive C and you put the data on drive X, and you have a top level folder called shares, and under that you'll have your groups. But when you're trying to migrate that, and if you have conflicts from one server to another that have the same names, then it starts creating all kinds of problems and starts renaming. So we don't quite recommend or support consolidation of servers. You can migrate one and then try to migrate the second one to the same destination. But when it runs through its analysis, it'll say, I can't do this, I can't do this, and it'll give you some issues where what it's going to find. Okay, so it might lock particular files that get migrated or it might exclude some things from transfers. Is it doing on purpose? Is that going to be detrimental to the results? Or how does that work within the storage migration service when you're doing that? Like, what happens if you get locked files once you've migrated some data across from one place to another? Okay, so for locked files, so if a file is locked by an exclusive application lock, so if your application X is running somewhere in your environment and it's got those files locked. Migration service is not going to migrate them because it can't break that lock. But what it does is it retries several time and if it still misses it, then it's just going to market and then it'll carry on. So the best practice typically is to basically you run your migration, but you don't do the cut over. So you end up with like two versions or two copies and then you will run the migration several times so you can run that job several times. So if let's say we're planning next Friday, not tomorrow, but next Friday we're planning a migration from server one to server two. So I would run it, let's say this weekend to do the bulk. Yeah. And then on Monday night, I would run it again to try to catch what was locked and then I would run it again several times. And then when I look at and operations folks will understand that we're going to do the cut over in the maintenance window. You don't have to. It's just best practice. So you say next Friday at five o'clock when everybody's going to the pub, we're going to lock the environment. We're going to log everybody out and we're going to actually do the cut over and you run it one last time and because at that point everybody is locked out, the files should all be unlocked and then it migrates whatever is left because you can run it. It's cumulative so it doesn't restart from the beginning. It just whatever you missed the first time, it'll do the second time. Okay. And then that just becomes more efficient, right? It does become more efficient, but on the last time that's when you turn on the cut over, which basically takes the identity of server one and make server to impersonate that server one. So the SMB share name are going to be the same. The server name is going to be the same. The IP address is going to be the same because as much as we tell our users not to use IP address to do links for servers, there's a developer somewhere that's going to put in an IP address or hard code and IP address into a link somewhere. So the IP addresses are migrated. The name of the servers are migrated. So that's the next person that will logs into the system and goes back to Wackwack server one, Wack share name, Wack file will still get their file even though the file is now physically located on a new server. Yeah, they'll never even know.  No, no, yeah. Your destination and your source and destination must be in the same domain. So any won't even do across work groups. So it has to be in the same domain. Okay. That's cool. Another question that we've got here is clusters. Are clusters as sources or destinations supported? They're supported as both source and destination. Cool. But it also depends on the OS that's running on those though for your destination and make sure that you have the right version and patched because I know from what I'd say Windows 2019 when it first came out, there wasn't supported, but with some of the patches and the updates that we've had since, and it's all documented and on the storage migration documentation, which can be found at HTTPS Wackwack aka.ms slash storemig, S-T-O-R-M-I-G. I don't know how you remember those addresses. I mean, that's, yeah, that's amazing. Well, you're sort of, you know, leading me to sort of, I suppose it's the end of the chat really now. I mean, there's a couple of other things that we could ask you.  Yes. So that's one of the things that source migration does when at first, so you select your source, then it goes and does an analysis of the source. What is it running? Does it have the right patches? Is it connected? Is it okay? How many shares does it have? How many files does it have? Which, and then it looks at the ACLs or the access control lists of all of those shares and all those files. And if it finds a local group and local users, we'll then recreate to those local groups and local users on the destination server. Brilliant, excellent. Well, look, we've asked you loads of quick fire questions, I suppose, about SMS. And I think, you know, I think in terms of understanding, you know, where it is and what people can do with it, I mean, it's an essential part, I suppose, what the, you know, the IT expert talk it is nowadays, right? And, you know, it's part of our latest software. So that's, you know, that's brilliant. Where would you suggest the best person or the best place, not the best person? Well, obviously you're the best person, but we can't have everybody come and talk to you. But if they can't come and talk to you, Pierre, where would you recommend that they go to find out about, you know, storage migration service? Okay, so for storage migration service, the documentation, which includes some tutorials and includes some step-by-step, can be found at the address that I gave earlier, which is aka.ms slash S-T-O-R-M-I-G, it's for StoreMig. That's just a short link for a very long URL that I will never remember in my life. In terms of talking to me and my team, your audience can reach us either on Twitter or on our Discord server, because we do have a Discord server for the community to actually discuss these things. So it can be found on aka.ms slash ITOpsTalk-Discord. And there, my entire team looks at that and even Ned Pyle is a part of that community and Ned is the Godfather of Storage Migration Service, actually participates in the discussion. So if you've got some questions, you can come to our community and check it out online. That's amazing. I think you'd be surprised. I think people will do that.  I think, you know, it does a lot more than certainly I thought it did, which is great. So thanks for explaining that. This is the silly bit of the show where the guys that make the show, the guys behind the scenes that you can't see, which, before we do that, right, by the way, audience, you just need to know what a pro Pierre is. Pierre, can we just go through your cameras? Can we just go through, can we do camera one, camera two, like in the movies? Camera one, camera two. Camera two, there he is. So you get a different view of my office. Pretty cool office. Or I could basically do a hands-on demo here. Sweet. I mean, how cool is that? I mean, like, easily the coolest guests. I don't want to say that because then other guests might hear. No, it's good. No, Pierre, there's definitely been great chatting with you today, but the producers of the show like to do something silly. It's called the server meme review. Basically, they're going to flash up a, I suppose, a silly couple of memes. They're server-related. As you can tell, I'm super technical when it comes to servers, so I probably don't know what they mean, but I think you'll probably get them. So let's see the memes and get the reactions. Now, audience, again, as always, if you've got silly meme that you want to send in to us or you've got comments on the memes, we do want to know. So please send them in to me and we'll make sure that we get them onto the show. So, three, two, one, let's see the first meme. You need migration. It's a your thing. Oh, my good Lord. Even I know that's bad. That's so bad. Okay, first of all, you need migration, yes, but it's not an Azure thing. It's a Windows server thing. So, it's so bad. And I like the fact that you need it. It's almost like, I know you've got the, I don't know if you get the British version of the office with Ricky Gervais, but that is Ricky Gervais right there. Like it's not Ricky Gervais, but it's a guy who thinks he's Ricky Gervais, right? Yeah, he's the guy that's pointing at the guy at somebody else when the user comes in and says, where are my files? Cause I did not use server migration service. So he's like, talk to him. Yeah, that's exactly it. Like he's got it totally wrong. Oh, brilliant. Right, okay. So, meme number two, right? Three, two, one, here we go. It's my favorite bit. You must construct additional servers. You must construct additional servers. I mean, it's kind of funny. It's just a lot of, I mean, that's a lot of servers. So do they really need more servers? I suppose we do. When you say it's a lot of servers, it's all a perspective thing. For somebody who works in a small office, yes, that's a lot of servers. If you visited a Azure data center, which not a lot of people do, cause it's even myself, I haven't actually been allowed to see a real one. This is not a lot of servers. But I am amazed at how clean that wiring is. Cause typically they all look like spaghetti. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I think, I mean, that's pretty good. I know I did actually arrange a customer visit for some partners on my way back to go to an Azure data center. And they actually got had to get picked up in an unmarked van at a specific time and they had to be blindfolded. So that is genuinely true. Like that is true. So, you know, we do appreciate that. But that is, you're right. It's quite nice and neat. Yeah, if you're Tokyo, I don't believe it. It must be photoshopped. Yeah, it's not, that's not a real, that's not real. That's my data center that I remember. There you are. Is that you in the data center? That could be me. I have, I've been known to be in that position in my 30 years. That the problem is always the, can you patch the conference room into the outside network? And I have to find a wire that connects the two.  So, you know, look, Roman, thank you so much for all of your work behind the scenes, plugging in those patch cables. I really appreciate it. You know, you've probably saved at least one or two of my meetings. Look, I think if we were just to summarize really quickly, kind of what we'd learned today about, you know, the storage migration service, you know, where is it accessible and kind of what are the key benefits that you would suggest that people can take away from the chat we've talked about? Okay, key benefits number one is that using a service that will enable you to move from an insecure platform to a secure platform easily, effectively and cost efficiently because that's not a, you don't have to pay anything that's built into Server 2019 Windows Admin Console is going to bring you benefits in terms of a more stable and more efficient environment. That's number one. I think number two is you don't have to lock yourselves, like you're not locked into from one source to one destination, whatever, generally speaking, whatever storage solution you're currently running, we can accommodate and migrate to a physical server. But one thing that the migration service does do now, if you want to, for example, migrate to a virtual server, if you're getting rid of your data center or moving an office or something, you can use the storage migration service to actually create an appropriate VM for you in Azure and will migrate to the storage to that VM. Wow, so it's truly the best of both and it's built into the software that you get today and probably have already if you're a 2019 customer or one of our future customers, one of our future versions, which I can't talk about, but there could be future versions of our software that might also have this software in. So that's, yeah, you heard it first. Oh my God, that's so awkward. Right, okay, well, we will move on very quickly from that point, Pierre, that's me putting my foot in my mouth. Thanks so much for joining us today on From the Rock to the Cloud. Keep your eyes out for the next episode and remember, everybody, if you love what you've heard or if you want to hear different things or specific things or talk to more experts like Pierre about things that they actually know, then we will do that and make sure that you get that. So please leave your comments in the comments section and drop us your thoughts. We'd love to hear from you and thank you very much. Again, Pierre, it's been a pleasure and we will look very much to talk to you again in the future. Thank you very much.


Next up is actually a custom order from my live just now on TikTok, 20 by 24, with some classy colors. So we're gonna do it up for him right now. This is a 20 by 24 piece. Ooh, it's gonna be classy. All right, we got some rolls of gold. Ooh, yes, sir. Ooh, yes, sir. Oh, baby, this is gonna look so good, Gary. Ooh, baby. Yeah. Yo, we got, okay, here's the thing. We got some classy colors. When I say classy, I'm talking like the rolls of gold, the white, the black, the metallic silvers and grays. That's what makes it classy. You pop this sucker on the wall. Classic, ha. Just like this. I'm gonna add colors, just like this. Ooh. I'm telling you. I'm gonna put some more rolls of gold up in here. Baby. Ha, ha, ha. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Ha, ha, ha. All right. Now remember, we gotta let this droop and drip. All right, Gary, here we go. Just like this. Little more black. This, all right, Gary. We got 24 classy A for Gary. Let's freaking go, baby. Yes, sir.


The third question that strikes me as extremely important, which has already been raised here, how the cities are absorbing the migrant population. I think I would agree with Rakesh that remarkably good job is done in India also. I looked at the 61st round national sample survey data, which calculates poverty percentage for the class one cities, which has gone down significantly. The percentage of people in the class one cities is somewhere between 10% to 12% for Mumbai. I would like to mention to Professor Sassan that it would not be more than 7% to 8%. If you take the unit level data from the national sample survey for 2004-2005, but this poverty level is half of what we have noted in small and medium towns. If you look at the disparity in terms of access to other basic amenities, drinking water, sanitation, and electricity, you find the gaps between small and large cities is two and a half times to three times. The point that I consider to be extremely important is that with globalization, there are very many positive manifestations that we see that larger cities are in a position to tap the global market. Nationally also, they have been able to mobilize resources by floating bonds or other financial instruments by taking the help of credit rating agencies. Many of the cities have not been able to really reform their property tax system, but they have been larger cities taking advantage of the more liberal environment with globalization coming up. 74th constitutional amendment for empowerment of the local bodies have been able to increase their other sources of revenue, but nonetheless the gap between large and small towns have certainly gone up. Even if you look at the expenditure in the public, by public agency state and the central government, you do find that the disparities are high and larger cities are in a position to get higher per capita allocation. I'm not only talking about Jawaharlal Nehruan National Urban Renewal Mission, which is focusing on 63 basically large cities, but there's a parallel program for the small and medium towns. I did a calculation to really see that the per capita allocation under the parallel program for the small and medium towns once again is about one-tenth of what we have noted. More importantly, much of the investment which has come up is linked with the economic infrastructure, is also linked with the basically real estate development and the global capital market, and not much is going to the social sectors which is creating some sort of crisis in the social dimensions in the urban system. I would like to mention that infant mortality rate in India was going down significantly in the 80s, but the rate of decline has gone down. The rate of decline has declined. In the 90s, maternal mortality rate is another area of concern where there is virtually no decline. I would like to just mention that India is certainly going to reach the MDG target of reducing poverty to half the level by 2015. By all our calculations, everybody in the Planning Commission is convinced and everywhere else that poverty certainly would go down, but as far as the social, other social agenda is concerned, MDG in terms of access to sustainable drinking water, slum population improvement in their conditions, bringing down infant mortality rate, maternal mortality rate, access to education, equality, gender equality, I think our major failures would be certainly manifest in these social sectors and urban segment also would report very alarming failures in terms of these social dimensions. I would like to touch upon the urban economy, which is not a very important component in the context of this seminar, but I must say that it is a low-cost support system which we have been able to create in many of the large cities. And I think Professor Saskia talked about new kind of informal economy. I have described them as formally informal workers who are working in the organized sector, but don't have a share in the benefits, they are working, you know, shoulder to shoulder within the organized sector, but don't have the social protection. There are these informal sector workers producing cheap commodities and services which are being used by the formal sector to be reflected in the global competitiveness and their efficiency, and also the households that are engaged with the globalizing sectors are getting a cheap support system in terms of domestic assistance. Again, the analysis of the latest data for 2004-5 does show that there is a significant growth of male in-migration who are semi-skilled, primary education, secondary level of education, which means that agricultural laborers being thrown out of rural economy, coming and finding job in the urban areas have become extremely difficult. But some amount of market-friendly skills, streets, street smartness, would be required in order to be absorbed in this, you know, formally informal sector.


Okay. So now that you have generated a nice picture, you might wonder what are actually the clusters in your data. And this is the next step. And the idea of clustering would be that you start with your single cell and what you would like to gain at the end is understanding what are the populations that you have. And the populations that you have would be up to you to decide at which granularity you would like to get. So there is not such thing as correct or wrong in terms of how refined you would like to get or how in depth you want to get. So the idea would be that whatever has the same cell type should also have quite close gene expression. And so therefore having quite close gene expression means that you should be able, once you use some clustering algorithm that will group together similar patterns of cell expression, you would be able with that to tell what is a cell population. So the idea would be that you start with your points and that you are in a certain way able to determine what are the different clusters that you have in your data set. And according to the handbook of clustering, there are two different types of clustering. Either you do partitioning clustering where you say this is cluster one, this is cluster two. Or you could go for clustering algorithms that are hierarchical, where you either start with everything separate and you group and group and group things together until you only have one group. Or the other way around, you start with everything connected and you disconnect it until you only have leaves. And so these are the two big categories of clustering and partitioning clustering which is what we would like more aim for me being able to say these are cluster one. So therefore these are cell type one. There are also several different approaches. So there are the partitioning clustering which are convex, which give you a convex partitioning of your data. An example of it is k-means, which is quite popular. Then there are the density-based approaches where a popular example is dv-scan. And then model-based approaches where you are supposing an underlying distribution of your data, which m-clust is an example. And the last category, which is the most popular one in terms of single cell RNA-sec, is graph-based approaches, where you would generate a graph onto your data and figure out how to cut that graph. So the idea of any graph-based approach is that the nodes will be your cells, sorry, and the edges between your cells would be a similarity measure. And this could really differ in terms of the different graph-based approaches that exist. Now, two quite popular graph-based approaches, and that are part of CERAT, which you can find with find neighbors, is the KNN graph and the SNN graph. The KNN graph, which stands for K nearest neighbor graph, and this is a graph in which you would, two vertices, p and q, would be actually connected by an edge if the distance between p and q is among the k smallest distance from p to other objects in your data set, meaning that q will be among the kth neighbor of p. This is what it means. So k would be something that you choose, for instance, to be 3. And so you would connect with p, everything that is the three first neighbors of p, and this is how you would connect the points. So the shared nearest neighbor graph, the SNN graph is similar, but is a graph in which weights define the proximity or similarity between two nodes in terms of the number of neighbors they have in common. So if p and q have three neighbors in common, then the weight between p and q would be 3. That's the idea of SNN graph. And so as I said in CERAT, this would be the function of generating these graphs. So graph-based approaches are using either adjacency matrix or weight matrix, where adjacency matrix would just be defining whenever you have an edge between two points.  So you have a 1, a and c is connected, so you have a 1. But for instance, there is no direct link between a and d. So here is a 0. And so this is what we call the adjacency matrix. Then other methods function with the weight matrix, where you actually also have on top of just knowing whenever you have a link between points, you also have a weight associated to it. And here you can see that a and b have higher weights than, for instance, b and d. So this is something that you then report in this weight matrix. But for all of them, the question remains of how you go from having a graph to having communities or clusters. And so there are quite some algorithms in terms of community detection. And most of them function in the way that they want to figure out a measure that will define that you have more edges inside the group than edges linking nodes outside the group. So here, for instance, you would like to have more links inside that red group than links to other cells in other groups. And this is how you try to detect communities or having a higher probability of being connected to each other than to members of other groups. But how do you do that? And how do you then separate the clusters? So the one possibility could just be you choose the smallest cut and smallest cut, meaning that you just remove one edge. And then you have one cluster and a second cluster. But this is usually not the best cut that you can have in terms of biology. So this is not usually how clustering algorithms that are graph based function, they don't try to search for the smallest cut, they try to search for the best cut. And defining what the best cut is to in a data set is quite difficult. And there are many methods that will work in a different way to find this best cut. Here are some that are listed, but actually, I would like to again, to go to the single salary tools. And you can see that for clustering, there are roughly 250 methods that exist right now. So you can go and have a look at those. Maybe there is one that fits perfectly your data. But in terms of Surat, as I said, the first thing you do is either construct the SNN graph, or construct the KNN graph. Based on the Euclidean distance in PCA space. So you first project the points in the PCA. And in the PCA, you calculate Euclidean distance that will then tell you which are the neighbors of which guys. And then with that, you can construct the SNN graph, where you would link together with the weights, the points that share some neighbors, and the weights will be defined by how many neighbors they share. And then you will actually use an optimization procedure, as always. And optimization procedures means that you have a function that you will try to optimize. And the function that you will try to optimize is a modularity function. It's called, it's called. And the modularity function is basically a cost function that will determine how well the cutting was made. Associated to that modularity function is a parameter that is called resolution. And resolution is a parameter that is basically telling you how refined you want to be in terms of generating your cluster. So higher resolution will give you much more refined view. So you will have much more clusters. And lower resolution will give you much less clusters. And this is then up to you to decide what is best for your data set. Do you want to have only a broad knowledge and having knowledge about there are the V cells, there are the T cells, or do you want to have a more refined view on how it works? So if you want to have a look here, you can have a look on the papers on exact formulas for this modularity function, if you need to. And here is the way to do it in our in our with Surat, which is called fine clusters. And then you have the resolution parameter that you can choose by default, I think it's 0.8. If I remember correctly, maybe I'm wrong, we need to check that. But there is a default parameter of resolution, but you could search for many different resolution and have an idea of how cluster change through different resolutions. There is a benchmarking paper that exists that try to have a look at different clustering algorithm and how they perform on several different data sets. They have this adjusted random index, which if it is one, it is exactly the same clustering. And if it is zero, it's a totally different clustering. And you can see that depending on the number of genes that were chosen, and depending on the methods you do perform similarly or very differently, you can see that the ones which do perform have the highest random index across all the different data sets that were tested are Surat. Surat does function quite well. There is also a monocle that we will discuss tomorrow, maybe, that are performing quite well. And Surat seems to be less dependent on the filtered genes. And you can have a look at the full paper where they describe several measurements of clustering algorithms and how good they are. TSCAN, for instance, is a method that would function on density based approaches. Yes. So in terms of clustering, there are quite some challenges that one needs to take into account. So you need to answer for yourself. What is this cell type for you in your data set? So do you need to go more in depth? Do you want to have the broad picture? Do you want to have both? And there is something that you also would need to ask yourself is what is the number of clusters that you want to gain? And this is going back to also the same question as the cell type is how refined you want to get. So do I want to have five major cell types, B cells, T cells, et cetera? Or do you want to go more in depth? And this will help you choose or guide you choose the number, the resolution parameter, for instance, and will help you guide the clustering. So you should also check the QC keys after clustering to see if all the cells in your clustering are nice. So meaning, for instance, what I usually do is for I start with major clusters, for instance, B cells and T cells. And then I would subselect only B cells and then see in there, do I have some more clusters by redoing all the steps from scaling to run PCA to run new map. And therefore I understand was my cluster that I visually saw on the UMAP as being only one cluster, actually, several clusters. Once I go to a more refined view, when this is something you could do as well. And then I really want to say that clustering is subjective. There is no ground truth. There is not one clustering that is better than the other one or one clustering algorithm that is wrong and other ones which are correct. It depends on what you want to see and then what you want to do with it. You should always be aware that the clusters that are given is just a way to partitioning your data. This doesn't mean that you don't have any wrong labels. This doesn't mean that you have the perfect labels. There is no such thing as a ground truth because you at the end you don't know what are the T cells and what are the true B cells in your data. You can only have an idea. So the idea at the end, once you have the clusters, is that you have a way to justify biologically what you see there. So I would urge you to generate, for instance, justification dot plot or feature plot that will show what is it that we see in the partitioning that you got are these T cells or these B cells. And this is what we will discuss afterwards once we go to the annotation of the clusters. Some clustering algorithms have been shown to not be stable. So meaning that if you would have only half of the data, you would get very different clusters. So this is something you could also play with if you have time, for instance, reduce the data set to only half of the cells and see if you still get the same clusters. You could also only take one sample and annotate one sample only and see how different this annotation is from the big. And then you can have an understanding of how stable the clusters are that you got. Yes, this last point is the same as the previous one. And to be known that single cell experiment have grown a lot. And in the last years, it has exploded. So some clustering algorithms were working very fine in the early days of sequencing, and are not scalable at all. So it's important also to know once you go to a clustering algorithm, can it be used in the order of magnitude that you are now with your cells? And this is how I would go with it. And that's already it for clustering algorithms. So what is the optimal number of clusters in a data set? The unsupervised clustering and fine clusters will determine it. I don't have to choose. It depends on the resolution parameter. One resolution parameter gives me the optimal number of clusters. Or there is no ground truth clustering is subjective. So there is not such such a thing as an optimal number of cluster. Yes, so most of you understood the message that clustering is up to you to decide when is it that you want to stop or what is the optimal for your setting. So there's not such a thing as correct or wrong. And it depends on the resolution parameter. That's correct. And each resolution parameter gives you some the number of clusters for that resolution parameter. But this doesn't mean that this is the optimal number of clusters in your data set. It's just the optimal number of clusters for that resolution parameter. And the first thing was also correct. Fine cluster I mean was saying that fine clusters will find will determine the number of clusters. That's true. But this is also not meaning that these are the optimal clusters for you. It really depends on the data set and on the message you want to give.


Going on everyone Sam here with Layton sports car driven 23 for any black football hobby six-box half-case break number 28 Team style read off a list of our names and our teams got Alan T with the Packers Brandon H. Cardinals Brett W. Eagles Ravens Christopher G Colts goo H with the Jags Jerry B. Browns John K. Falcons Jordan a with the Panthers Josh H Broncos Titans and Commanders Justin W with the Vikings Keith be with the Seahawks Kenny G Texans Kyle C cowboys Sophia S with the Lions Michael T with the Giants Mike C bears Nick a Dolphins Paul B Jets Phillip and Raiders Ron L Steelers Ron S with the Chargers Ryan and Chief Sam L bills and Niners Sam B with the Patriots Santino L Bangles Steven W Rams Todd C Saints and Tom B with the Bucks. So good luck everybody. Here we go One to go in Star Wars one to go in Star Wars One as well Jordan B with a spot. Thank you Jordan one spot left On the night everyone that is it that is all Appreciate everyone helping us fill up so far. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Yeah, it's been a fun one man Yeah, been a good time for sure like Like Paul said man when everything is full it just keeps going. She just keeps rolling exactly 75 Brian breezy Nice one there for the Saints Got a base of it to a First Jersey is gonna be a starlight materials to 150 of Justin Fields Justin Fields to 150. We've got a Rookie Otto to 199 Ty J Spears Congrats on that one there at Tennessee Titans the Titans of Tennessee and RPA 3 of 25 tank Dell nice one there for the Texans. He's becoming pretty good man Think that was pretty solid. He's pretty good. Three of 25 tank Dell I like that. It's a beast man. He's like one of Stroud's favorite targets Stroud had something to do with him getting drafted to Stroud wanted him. We got a redemption Aroni Jack Campbell one of 10 on the Rookie for the Lions Got base of AJ Brown First hit is Duce Vaughn futuristic 18 of 99. Nice one there for the Cowboys Cowboys Redemption Jordan Brooks midnight signatures Royal going to Seattle. Nice one there. Congrats Seattle See how he's a good linebacker Texas tech guy Nice and RPA for the Ravens eight flowers 88 of 99 Brett you killed it with the Ravens in both half cases. Congrats, buddy. Yeah, very very jealous of that. I have to say Very jealous. Very nice. How about Michael have selling us out on the night? Let's go Michael appreciate that buddy Let's go man. Awesome Get your spots in Sunday Funday man. Yes, sir Get your spots in Sunday Funday forest and fanatics live with Kyle. Yes, sir. Almanac museum breaks Almanatics, I mean got a ton of Ton of things available man ton of breaks available Lot of fun can be a really good day here.  I do Jersey breaks tomorrow. Yeah, a couple of Jersey Brakes Those are almost sold out to take Bigsby Rookie for the Jags Nice one there. Got Jaden Reed. That is to 150 rats on that you read over Packers Juju Brents Julius Brents 42 of 50. I saw one there for the Colts. He's he's pretty when he's healthy. He's nasty And then Jalen Carter 16 of 25 on the RPA for the Eagles. Dude, that's awesome good stuff there Philly the Potential I would say leader in rookie of the year voting right now be mr Jalen Carter Xbox solid RPA there Jordan Love to 35 Yeah, patches are disgusting on that logo on that Henden Hooker rookie Nice one there for the Lions got another redemption coming up here. Everybody got a Marvin Mims 46 a 50 rookie influx three colored patch Congrats Broncos. That's one there Denver. Got redemption of Andre ISC boss. That is I believe he's a bangle if I'm not mistaken. He's the Princeton kid, right? Yes bangles for ISC boss again, I'm saying I know I'm saying that wrong, but nice one there for the bangles Yeah, it's witherspoon. That would be the only one I would say for sure would be Devin witherspoon nice one there his brothers with a fork Got Jameer Gibbs RPA 26 of 99. That's Jersey numbered. I swung there congrats lion Sophia Grads on that their lions. It's up slap Five to deal Jaden read over you are you do you read Jaden then? Yeah, you're getting with us with a fork I thought you were talking about this punch Because Jake please punch Sam Keanu Benton to 35 nice one there Steelers like mine makes a little more sense Witherspoon versus with a fork. No, no, no Jaden read over do you read that makes more sense than witherspoon versus with a fork? Yes, I don't I don't agree disagree Vaughn. You're the vote on TV on wicks rookie. Come on Vaughn I know I believe in the big 12. Who's that slap? We got a duel that is tank big speed and a vision 39 of 99 that'll be a random I know those two teams are owned by different people. I think John and goo have those two 38 of 99 nice one there We've got Xavier Hutchinson 22 of 199 for the Texans Oklahoma State nice. Oh Stop Yeah, yeah Please let's go to 199 Xavier Hutchinson, please and Two of five tank Dell laundry tag RPA. Oh my god going to the Texans congrats Kenny G on that one good stuff, buddy Let's go. That's awesome. Thank Dell to a five. That is awesome, man Get that into a mag 130 180 might be 180 with some help Yeah, Texans killed it man Texans killed it Devin with a spoon six of 15 brother of Devin with a fork or Kevin with a fork Nice one there congrats Seattle. He's actually a star We've got Terry McLaurin scary Terry Scary Terry, yeah, yeah Yes, next one's gonna be a random as well It is gonna be a duel of Will Anderson Jr. and Tyree Wilson 118 out of 150 nice one there for whoever wins it. Yes, Star Wars is sold out shorts. Yep Just sold out Michael F took the last spot a couple of minutes ago We've got another redemption Joy I so lost again nice one there bangles rookie autographs Grats on that bangles very nice and Aiden O'Connell 58 of 99 on the rookie Jersey Auto for the Raiders congrats Las Vegas very nice That will work Yes Yes All right couple of randoms to do we have the Bijan and Bigsby and then the Anderson and Wilson. I know I'm sorry about that Paul Left catch. I did not actually I did not Josh. What was the what ended up happening with that? Texans Texans Start off with the tank Bigsby and Bijan Robinson duel I'm gonna roll the dice whatever team is on top Stop Ferg for it. I'm not for us Seven times we've got one two three four five six and seven that is Jaguar's on duel That's Jaguar's and then the will Anderson and Tyree Wilson duel between the Texans and the Raiders roll dice on that We're gonna go seven times as well one two three four five Six and seven go to the Raiders. Congrats Raiders.  I'll do it for the break everyone. Thanks again for the film up next is gold standard