Welcome to Adam does movies presents movies with my black friend. I'm Adam, and I'm his black friend. Bless you That was like on cue and everything. I'm trying to tell you bro You're doing a professional here. It's a very professional very professional. We just like to chat movies We thought hey, let's do it for 45 minutes to an hour pick a topic You just let loose. We have absolutely no life. We just our life is literally family and movies Yeah, that's really sometimes that order is reversed. Yeah, sometimes and everything for a well sometimes There's some porn involved, but whatever whatever entertainment we can find that we can appreciate We're gonna go with I definitely agree the topic of today is We've been noticing a lot of movies lately and by lately I mean the last like seven or eight years going to streaming services have been outright ass So I thought hey bless Why don't we talk about the good old days and how things have changed and how sometimes they've stayed kind of similar So the main topic here is streaming movies are now the straight to DVD model I have noticed that I even told my mom today. I said hey remember the good old days. She said what about the good old days bless That's how we talk What about the good old days tell us about the good old days what about the good old days bless I said remember we used to go to blockbuster We used to rent movies on Fridays and have a good time and look forward to after school like soon as you get out It's like, you know what you know, I'm going to blockbuster and depending what maybe you go you live in You know, I'm going to the bodega and I'm going to back past the porn section I'm going to the new releases where they have the bees It's like you enter a completely different world.  He walks out.  We had mr. Movies, dude Mr. Would be soft bro.  Okay, literally what you just said yo, it was mom and pop video Yeah, mom. That's it.  I wasn't taking the bus For as was the I forgot where was that belong so sure I wasn't taking all taking the bus to Francis Lewis to go to a blockbuster and I can get it right down the block in my house From the mom and pop and I knew them too. Yeah, the mr. Movies. We had at the mom and pop. It wasn't really mom and pop It was a chain. It was just a really chain. It was a lesser chain. I think it was only Minnesota based Yeah, please do please do that spoiler. They're all out of business Literally, but they did have Yeah, they did have the like adult section and it was so funny because the main store would be kind of just like sterile and boring Yeah, the other popcorn stuff, but you go through the beaded section. It's like you entered mazizly tavern or something. It's like There's a dude dealing drugs in the corners got urinating on the side. Oh gosh Am I right now? It's like a completely different world in there It's like it's like back in the days with the cable boxes how you go back and forth the chance You can see a little yeah. Oh, yeah, the little fuzzy snow Yeah, a little bit you can see what's going on there. It's like, yeah, so I'm talking about I only went in that section once and it was because I think it Was a rite of passage for any, you know, I was Years old like what's behind that dude you was 13? Yeah, it's about 13.  I was there like 10 You were there 10. Yeah. Well what in the adult section? Yeah, I went right through the beads Nobody saw me. I just went right through the beads and stuff. Yeah, I think they was at the cash register Not paying attention went right through the beads. Yeah, I don't think I just was ever Dude, I went to school the next day and it's bragged about it. Really?    Jimmy look there's bless. Yeah, that's the guy that went through the beaded It was more like jacquan or something Yeah, I don't think we had a Jimmy the kids just like stand up on the tables in the lunchroom and do the slow clap as you Walk by pretty cool. That would be pretty cool. Oh, definitely been pretty cool Everybody clapping about you went through the beads went through the the janitor. Yeah, I see I got it as he cleans the throw up off the floor And he puts the powder down it cleans the throw up off the floor. Yes, definitely But no, I personally like the mom and pop stores But blockbusters in Hollywood video definitely took it to a different level and it's definitely took it to a different level But one thing I used to notice back in the days and all video stores weren't created equal No, meaning that the mom and pop stores if you're a movie head You could find movies that definitely blockbuster didn't have and then Hollywood video had exclusives Yeah, that block vice versa that blockbuster haven't in the Hollywood video didn't kind of like how streaming Exactly, that's what leads into it. Exactly. And they also even went as far as some streaming services have like Contracts with actors so they cannot be in movies for Netflix or you know, I never knew that Yeah, I believe with Adam Sandler's new contract He had with Netflix where he had to make like 70 movies for them He could not do an Amazon movie. Well, Amazon acquired the Hotel Transylvania property And they made a new Hotel Transylvania Adam Sandler is not the voice. Yo, see I didn't even know that Yeah, I knew he did a deal with Netflix for his company, but I didn't know what the deal consisted of him Not doing movies with anyone else. Yeah, but Netflix. They must have paid him handsomely Oh, I'm sure they did because if you think about it, you know what other movie was on Netflix The gyms one with the two directors from New York, I forgot the names of the brothers. They did Oh man, it's the righteous not Richard Jimstones. It's some Adam Sandler Jim something the one where he found Jim uncut Jim Yeah, 824 824 that was 824. That's 824. Really? Okay. That's on Netflix. Oh nice. Yes But the point I'm trying to make is to yours is that you're right because if that movie would have went on Amazon I wonder if that would have had a problem with him in it. Oh, yeah Yeah, they just it's it's all comes back around The mr. Movies I was at the owners didn't think Jerry Seinfeld was funny So they didn't carry the movie comedian really? Yeah, and I remember going there looking because I was a big Jerry Seinfeld fan from the show and They didn't have it like where is this movie? You don't even have a single copy. Yeah, the store owners don't like him So they didn't carry the film Very shitty, okay. Well, I guess get it. I guess maybe one of the many reasons that the Blockbusters and the mr. Movies don't exist anymore one thing I used to miss about those movies back in days people who work there kind of new movies So, yeah, they did. Yes You can sit there and literally be like so what do you think about this and they can break the whole damn thing down to you So where now it's like so have you seen this movie?  No, can you tell me about it? Oh, what is that?  That's what I'm saying theater Nothing, you know, it's like it's depressing. Yeah, it's definitely I feel isolated right now the fact that we don't have video stores like that No, it's a bummer my buddy my buddy Derek actually worked at a movie rental store. Oh, so my day or is you know, Derek Wow He worked at a movie rental store for many years I was super jealous because that's the job I was wanted I was wanted to work at the front of a movie theater taking the tickets Yeah, like a god or working at a movie rental store putting them away seeing what's coming out being the first to get the pick and bring it home We used to play a movie trivia game and by his third year working there It was the game was over really have so many actors and movies memorized. It was like this isn't fun I can't compete dude that shit was the best man That shit was the best because the whole point like you said you get to take the movie home before it came out So you watch it and have the whole movie down So that Friday or Saturday or whatever when the whole boatload comes in you could talk about the movie Exactly and stuff and the member when they slowly have like one or two copies of the main movies And you have to call in and be like you have it because it's like sold out They'll have only like one or two copies of the main movie and it's sold out They would have like 35 of some shitty wrong. Yes, and then they would have like two of the matrix of the man Yeah, and then you have that one guy who holds it for like three weeks Right and they have to get a new one because he's not bringing it back at our movie rental place Which I did like they had pics from the people working really they'd have like Michael's pics They would always be more artsy than than Jeremy's who'd have terrible taste It would be just like the American version of Godzilla and shitty stuff like that. I'm looking at the pictures too of mr. Movies. Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm there right now.   Oh my do you have background music? Making it happen Yeah, there's kind of a glow. Yo, I have my parents hands. You feel me. It's looking up.   I've never seen you don't like James Cameron Dude, you have put me onto movies Avatar not seen Titanic Of course on the movies. Okay. Well, don't say of course. Yes. You haven't seen his other two massive hits I've seen a bussy jackass to I seen a judgment He also did Aliens the sequel scene and he did the abyss wait, but he didn't do the first aliens. No, that was Ridley Scott Interesting alien.   It's baseballs makes fun of that scene. Yes. Yeah. I saw six walls next And there's that scene at the bar where an alien rips out of the dude's chest and does the like hello, my baby Honey, that's funny. Oh I do It's funny amazing. I said a couple years ago with my kids. They're still hold up a little bit. It's okay Was it the power of the Swartz? Yeah, some of it's just really hokey with the rings coming out Yeah, that's like John candy RP John candy was great John candy was amazing. So was um Rick Moranis Rick Moran is what happened to Rick Moran disappeared. Well, he retired. I guess what happened They never really retire. Yeah. Well his wife Something tragic happen. I think she died when he was in like the peak of his of his like, you know celebrity I didn't even know that. Yeah, he was at his peak. She died. He got really ill And so he chose to retire and raise the two kids I never even knew that very very admirable the last movie I think from the top of my head was honey. I shrunk the kids honey I blew up the kid he did do didn't he do a football movie too like a kid.  Are you sure he's in that? Yeah, little giants. I'm one of the coaches. He's the coach of the ragtag team and then you have Paul Arnold is that the other guy? No, it's Al Bundy. Al Bundy is the is the douchey coach. He's hilarious Okay, I'm looking at right now. Yeah, Rick Moranis, isn't it? My uncle took us to see this and everything It was a fine film. It was fun. I thought it was amazing. Well, I amazing is a strong word Dude, I'm getting sick and tired of rod and tomato 36% on little giants. Well, rod and tomatoes They don't like comedies.  I don't know. It's probably rotted. That's my favorite comedy Dude, I mean my sister know that movie like in and out.  Yeah, and that was one that Jim Carrey completely ad-libbed like those guys weren't even supposed to be in that scene They just came out. I like when he's trying to sound. I'm gonna make you bet before the end of the day See bass Pick up the tab. Yeah, see bass said that well that gentleman over there is see bass No, it's a cardigan, but thanks for asking. What do you think about cable guy?  You know what let's table this. This can be an entire.  Yeah, no, it's not bad Dude, I haven't been on Twitter in front of trash, but yeah, you're better off being on less social media Yeah, I didn't know he's so he says leaving Twitter.  No, well, it is For somebody I know I'm getting old like what?  Okay. That's all I care about. It's Sonic 3. You feel me like for real You saw Twitter That's another thing I don't like about nowadays when it comes to our actors and the people that we grew up watching or even watching now I really don't want to know your personal life Like I want to know you as an actor like you know I'm trying to say it's more of the the fantasy or the Imagination of who you are.  Hell yeah, let's make it happen I didn't care about nothing is political views views of life. I can give two shits Right I just want to know what movies he making and what's coming out next and the funny thing is it's always been that way It's just with social media now. It's just so much man. It's way too much It's easy to avoid like a magazine article as we do a podcast right right as we do Let me tell you what I think about religion and politics and everything now We generally just talk about movies and that's very true That's the goal of my channel has always been to just have fun and talk films There's enough of the drama everywhere else. I totally agree, but no, I just really like to watch movies I don't want to know anything. I want to be locked in the fantasy of the movie.  Well, I think that it's rubbing off on you because now you're even like yeah now I'm like he's over two hours.  I never ruined everything I never did you know, I would just go in the movies just watch it not know how long it's gonna be a nothing Yeah, when I met him, it was like wait miss movies like two. I'm like, what? And so until I started watching a couple bad ones and I see what he was talking about Because the thing is a bad movie can be watchable if it's short, but not a long movie. It's just miserable aka barbarian, right? Yeah aka barbarian like that was that was one had to tell Adam.  Okay. No, the Jackie Chan. I agree with the gently Wow Thank you so much to get up and go. There's a lot of bad jet Lee movies I don't know the except for Romeo must die cradle to the grave with oh, you so lucky.  You know, it's so wild man. I knew who jet Lee was Way before he hit America gonna be one of those I knew this artist. Yeah, you did basically Sold his soul dude. I was an eighth grade.  I was an eighth grade and I started collecting Kung Fu movies Okay. Oh, so you watched him when he was doing like yes, I used to get him from VHS I should pay $10 a movie on my leg because they were imported men So the guy who was selling them have the master copy and he would just duplicate them And he would literally sell them and so ten dollars you get three for 25 So I said that's how I knew who he was but we came to America. We started doing American movies I agree.    I love that movie.  I like kiss the dragon. I think it is the dragon with Aliyah, no No, no, no, no Romeo must die. He's got the No, that's got the fat dude. Yeah, the the fun.  Yeah, the guy who I would bring Yeah, the guy who I like bring over to watch that guy.   It's it's got it's like a cheap knock-off matrix movie same with the one with jet Lee The one is hit him. I am the one. It's an hour in 20 minutes long. Maybe that's why you like yeah It's really hit or miss in and out. He's throwing CG motorcycles. I'm at the end. Oh, yeah He's on the pyramid pyramid. I stand alone. Yeah by God smack. I want to know when he was there Does he get tired? No, he never gets tired. Yeah, he's absorbed all the other jet Lee's Yeah, I think so, but I'm saying me personally kiss the dragon American wise Okay, I got it's gonna bother me if I can't figure out the name of the woman that's in kiss the dragon It's a white chick. No, you don't tell me. It's not Bridget Fonda. It's the daughter. No, it is Bridget Fonda It's Bridget Fonda. It's like the last movie I saw her in You don't need to I just told you it's Bridget Fonda. Yeah I Kissed the dragon as the shot where he kicks the pool ball at the guy across She's a smoke show in that movie Yeah, she's fantastic. She just completely fell off the earth after seriously that jet Lee movie was the last thing I saw her bro. She did Lake Placid.  You know, it's so wild I'm rooting for the crocodile. I don't know if you remember this. I remember everything 1992 singles, okay? That was a huge MTV movie. Yeah, I remember shitty MTV singles movie sucked.  Paul gossip. It was actually really good it was weird for me because he had Burnett hair that bothered me his natural hair color and then They did that horrible horrible Joe's apartment with the she was disgusting I was a disgust I mentioned that movie not too long ago. Yo, because if you live in South Carolina, we have water bugs Here.  No, they did way more do they say there's a musical too They're like funky They did varsity blues. Remember varsity blues. I do. Yeah, they did varsity.  Because nothing ever happened Keep walking the only time he ever kept his cool dude. They did the wood. That's actually a good movie. No, it's not You don't like the wood. I don't remember. I never saw the wood Saying that to be just say to be contrarian.  Can we focus? We're so far in the weeds now Topic was straight to streaming movies that suck. Oh, we're not even even on the playbook dude. We're beyond on a playbook Here's where I was trying to circle this to where history is repeating itself Movie rental stores Had a top shelf believe it or not There was more than one shelf at a movie rental store imagine the kids will listen to this Do you remember what was on the top shelf of movie rental stores new releases in? Some sections in other sections the top shelf Rentals were the rip-off movies. Yo, you're right. See I okay. It must have been when you live that see ours was the bottom Oh, well that would make more sense.  No, see ours was never the top It was always the bottom like say if they came out with independence day Yeah, they will come out with a fake independence day There was one company that was doing all that independence day. It's like freedom. Yeah, but it's but it's independence day Right, it's literally independence. Yeah, because there was twister and then there was tornadoes They would always have a like a copy. I don't know if to be honest They had to have an inside person to enable to know to pinpoint when these movies were coming out Yeah, and stuff. It was one company that was doing it literally asylum Was it well asylum was one of us.  Yeah.  I love to sponsor you guys I Like full moon movies. That was another one.  It's on Paramount Plus. It's on Hulu. It's on Peacock It's on Apple Plus.  I agree or Everything have to be a plus. I've noticed that too. Plus. Yeah ESPN plus It's just it's so embarrassing how these companies don't even bother trying to think outside the box They're marketing departments What if we what if we call it HBO?  Yeah HBO is going away Oh, you said I heard showtime is going away. You sure? I'm pretty sure I'm fact-checking. No I think it's showtime pretty sure HBO max is gonna be dead and it's gonna turn into If you say paramount is showtime. No, it's it's something else really else. Yeah, you can you can look it up if you want Otherwise, I know that otherwise. I'm just I'm preaching right now I know showtime is definitely going to paramount like they're over with like they're done showtime sucks Well, if I was a kid showtime was amazing. It was great for Red Shoe Diaries Posted by David DeCovney. Remember that. That was amazing.  That's Joey from Friends. Really? Yeah, Bang with Chicken and Elevator soft-core porn style That that Red Shoe Diaries was literally showtime's answer for Cinemax. Yeah, skin a max skin a max Yeah, that's what I said with the with the channels at night You just press the buttons back and forth from your house cinemax so you can see a little bit of it. Yeah Yeah, of course. Okay, back to it. Red Shoe Diaries. You will be messed. Poor one out. RIP. I watched way too much porn when I was younger Red Shoe Diaries. Don't regret any of it. It made me a man. It made you who you are today. It taught me everything I know today about the female anatomy. That's why you had a kid in junior high school. You became a statistic. Bro, they gotta check this out for all the people who are listening. Red Shoe Diaries 1992 was a drama Dude, I was 11 years old. You was 9. Yeah, I was watching that at 9. I peaked early. Yo for real So 5.7 out of 10 on IMDb 68% on Just Watch and it's right now on 2B Right now right now right now. That leads right into what you're saying Looks like I have something to kick up when I get home five seasons of it My wife's gonna be like Adam. Why do we have a subscription to 2B? 2B plus 2B plus For real they only offered the first season of Red Shoe short for Red Shoe Diaries I had to get plus to get the rest of seasons. Yeah, had to get to Covney in all five seasons Dude, it ran from 1992 to 1997. It was a good run. Dude, I was 16 years old when it stopped. It put me through high school It put me through middle school. I was ready with real women by then. Put me through middle school I was a real women by then. I said goodbye Red Shoe Diaries. I need you no more. Thank you David. Thank you David. You've done your job You've done your job. Thank you so much. Let's get off of the soft core porn and back to whatever the hell this topic is streaming Outside of the garbage copy movies that now have found their way into streaming and for some reason get more spotlight Because that's what we're doing. The big thing I wanted to talk about is how Disney on Disney plus and some of these other Some of these other ones to a lesser extent our marketing and using the same actors from like 20 years ago Yes sequels. Yes, so we have like enchanted to disenchanted hocus-pocus to a Christmas story to I can't believe they even touched that one with the original kid who's now like 50 He's older than us. Yeah. Yeah, and he's playing the same dude. It's just it's just so sad He has both his eyes what used to happen Which I was fine with I could forgive it because they were shout-out to DVD and no one knew mm-hmm Is they would make sequels to movies years later with different actors? Do you remember behind enemy lines with Owen Wilson? Yes a nice little bottle episode where he crashes a jet And he has to fight for his freedoms good movie. Mm-hmm hour and a half Is it it's got to be because it was in and out fast. I think it was an answer to broken arrow. Hey either way I'm in yeah, either way. I'm in they made a sequel to They made a sequel to that like seven years later straight to DVD different actor I do Butterfly effect with Ashton Kutcher. Don't tell me they made a party because I never saw it. I won't tell you that I'll made I'll tell you they made two of them I didn't even know that butterfly effect two and three different actor.  Yes. I'm gonna have the TV show Check all day. I have knowledge useless knowledge.  I celebrate Chipotle's entire. I like Chipotle. I eat a Chipotle Once in a while sure dude Oh gosh, but if anything, it's just kicking the system. It's just moving me around. Okay, the show sponsored by Mo's The Yeah, so we have that whole situation going on but this does make me go back to the nostalgia factor because This stuff was going on at Disney all the time. Yeah I just don't remember my kids don't even know these movies exist But there is a little mermaid to and leave you know that there's a beauty in the beast to like Christmas wish There's an Aladdin 2 and 3 You don't remember those. Oh, I don't know it's like Prince of Thieves is one of them and return of Jafar is another one That's my sister's error. Yeah, because what happened was the first ones go to the theater.  We'll go half in we're gonna go half in So we're not gonna pay the like good voice actors.  Yeah, I know I'm all in on this.  I'm there had to be exactly I did not see none of this. They didn't really put it on commercials Advertise it really like sometimes you would see it in like a magazine like a video game magazine Ad for one of these shows like lion king one and a half I think is a movie it focuses on Simone and Pumbaa Yeah, it's like their storyline.  I was in the other session. I wasn't doing it. I didn't watch any of them Yeah, I've never seen that film and I think there's a third one where Simba and Nala have a kid and I don't know his name Kumbaa or some crap. He's got like a scar down the eye I think he's a more rambunctious one never saw that either. I just know it's there dude I didn't even know none of this.  Yeah And that's where we're really at so In the 90s they made these terrible sequels.  Who's why do you don't owe Disney anything to say? Hey, maybe this Pinocchio movie was pretty bad Bro, it's ridiculous right now.   We didn't see it's right here. Let's watch it. It's right there. It's right there Yeah, it's definitely right there. Let's watch that right now up and play right now But no, I totally agree with you saying man I totally agree but see why you was in that not saying you was in that section We're looking over there. Yeah, I was over in the horror section looking for like the obscure shit I couldn't find anywhere else and everything. That's why I loved about mom and pop shops Everyone had different sections of horror or that was what you're into like I was or Action or drama or whatever but it none of them had the same movies They don't have the same popular ones But each one will have a different set of those underground or rare B movies to find and stuff like you found sand Yeah, like return to the living dead three. Sure.  I never really went into that stuff at all I liked horror movies, too. Dude. I was a huge heart I was like all in on like Jean-Claude Van Damme and Van Damme and movies like that.   There's no magic, you know magic There's no like red carpet rollout for movies when there was a new release in a blockbuster of Hollywood One or two releases a week, I think it was every if I'm not mistaken was every Friday.  Yeah, you'd be ready to roll Yeah, it was just it was a fun time and everybody was watching the same movies And they're talking about it which is lame in a way, but in another way, you know, it's it's community It brings people together to talk.   It's almost impossible. Oh my god. Everybody's like you need to watch Wednesday You need to watch this need to watch this like I don't have time. That's another thing That's another thing y'all like even with Wednesday. I want to watch Wednesday, but I just don't have time Right like I just don't have like I might watch it tonight But and that's a big mic and that's the other that's the other point I bring up with with the time as far as movie length It's like oh this movie's two and a half hours long. There's so much better. Should I could be doing I mean this really got to be good to to waste that much time of mine, you know Like it's worth something Tell me I should question why you think that they have two and a half hour and two hour movies now Where the people's attention span now is worse that funny. It's the opposite It's not like back in the days two and a half hours would have been more Understanding because people attention span was more into it where now people's attention span is like you can come out with a Friday and it's all by Tuesday. I know I think it's they think it's quantity over quality You have to have an incentive for people to go to the theater. So they're like well This is a two and a half hour movie.  I'm buying a soda I don't what by the time I sit down. I'm getting up and leaving again I think there is a certain audience that does look at it that way where they go to a movie Maybe once every five months. Yeah, so to them They're like because I see it in the comments, too. Like why are you complaining? You're getting more movie. You're there longer Yeah, I see movies every week every other day. I watch a movie. I want it to be You know a fruitful event. I don't want it to be something where I'm sitting there waiting for it to end That's not a good movie. That's a chore then when I saw and if nobody's in there, I pull out my phone That's when I know I'm just that's it's over. Yeah, I know I'm just done with this movie Like I'm just here now this to get through. Yeah Like what are you trying? If I'm the only one in there and there's nobody in there and that movie's trash either I'll walk out like I did Jeepers Creepers Jeepers Creepers, I stayed in there for 20 minutes and then walked right out. Yeah, literally walked out I got him just walked out.  It's so obvious. They're patting out these shows that should have been movies to begin with Especially the Disney side of things on Disney I would agree with you too with I watched the only one episode of the what's the Marvel one Moon night. I watched one episode awful I couldn't even I could barely get to the one episode Watch three and I was like now. I'm done. Yes, and I'm done our family Tried watching like every one of these Marvel shows and we could not get past it every time It was the third episode. It's like there's still four more of these. What are they doing? Yeah, man They just drag drag they drag and or was like that I really liked the third the third episode really tied the first two together. Yeah, this is good I can see why they released all three at once because the first two were a little bit of a chore to sit through But then I was like, I don't really need to go on anymore. I'm kind of good They didn't finish, you know what I noticed I started doing what you said I saw the fast-forward and the talking seems to get into the action part. That's what my wife does Really depressing dude, I started doing that like yeah, because I would recommend certain shows to friends of mine Yeah, and I'll be like I'm gonna warn you I fast forward certain parts because I just my attention just can't hang with it It's just boring. I know we've done that I've done that recently two times now total in my life and they were within the last year and one was during Dahmer I think it was a dude. I was five or six and you fast forward dude. I do that too.  Sorry coach. I did today one show you put me on to um Midnight Mass I fast forward a lot really A lot of dialogue was just too much man. I totally agree with you Really kind of awkward dialogue to a good show. Yeah, but the dialogue was just overkill Yeah, I really liked that show your dialogue was just overkill man Yeah, it was just like fast forward fast forward It's a show that could have been cut in half and you really wouldn't have lost anything Yeah, but the dialogue just took it to all like what people going on like monologue a lot of monologues Yeah, and I was just like man. There's a TV show And stuff so yeah, no dude you did it get a second season of that I Don't know if he's going to heat the director who did he has that hole The hunt doesn't do the haunting movies to the hunting shows the haunting of Hill House. Oh, he does that too I think that's good. I heard it's really good He has two different ones of that and then he has midnight mass And I think they're all kind of in that same universe, so I think you'll probably go on to do a different show Oh, yeah, the um the overarching plot or overarching if you will I don't really know which way to say that word is big words Is that a lot of the magic like we said is it's kind of slipped away now You don't have the oh on Fridays. We watch friends on Saturday Yep, I remember those days man, and it's like it's such a like such a pathetic privilege thing to complain about Having too much material, you know too much stuff to watch but too much of anything is not good for you I agree. I'm gonna be honest with you me. Okay. I look at it this way Oh, me as a kid now. I probably would have definitely been like oh my gosh in my head But we don't know that like you can I try to take is right now was overkill me as an adult is over. I have kids So how do they feel they don't ever has to watch anything. That's what I'm saying So I guess not yeah anything because there's everything. It's too much. There's way too much They're not like psyched at all. I think the only time my daughter was ever kind of pumped for a show was stranger things and By this last season she was out way before me and Lindsay were do that season trash It's so again the episodes are like two hours long bro Let me put it to you this way I went ahead and got AMC plus mixed with shutter. Yeah, and ask me how many times I watch anything I can't imagine you even do that.   I'm just like Well, yeah, you gave me a couple weeks ago access to your stream.  I don't watch hardly anything on there It's just too much too much crap I gave you mine and I have my own and I haven't even watched I don't even watch it for I get it for everybody else basically and it's the worst because everybody's doing the same thing You have one or two shows that you like from peacock. Yes one show that you like from Hulu two shows You like from this. It's like well if you cancel it, then you don't get access to it They know they have you by so you're basically paying for those one or two shows you're paying for cable Basically, it's like almost worse at this point. Well, see that is the difference between the streaming now and how it was at the movie That stores.  It's like you have to go through so much junk to find one good movie, right? You found saying like that. I hate that and like and the magic is just it's just not the same man It's just not the same it's not the same magic It's not the same thrill to find something and so like when you find that movie like I can't remember last time I found that movie well in so many of the movies that they are making that are exclusives the red notices the They're not even made well the disenchanted that they're so poorly. That's all I said I even made they look like straight to DVD even the good ones are just kind of like, okay You could tell and one thing I've noticed about these straight exclusives for these companies I've noticed is that it's definitely longer and I think if it was released in the theaters It would have been cut down probably like by a half hour right in general I think it's like literally the director or the editor whoever gets more freedom and stuff on the straight to DVD stuff Well, we say straight to streaming then he wouldn't theater which makes it kind of worse if the movies bad, right? So yeah, I'm with you on that one. This is the magic is completely gone Magician kids right now. I'm in the movie kids. Yeah, I'm just seeing that now. I should like you were probably totally overlooking Oh, absolutely. Like you were totally overlooking like it will come out right now. You'd be like, okay, I'm not a senior Yeah, I've been outside. What are you doing Friday? Like if I'm saying like you wouldn't even movie my my brother Texted me two days ago. He said hey, you should watch wonder. Have you seen wonder like wonder from like eight years ago or something? Yeah, I saw that it was fine And then I go on Netflix and there's a movie called though wonder and that's what he's referring to The movies just come out. You don't have no any idea. They're just released one day They're gone the next something else shows up washrooms repeat No one has time to like talk or digest or even get excited. Yeah, it's not exciting at all Like they got this one show now on Netflix. I've got the name of it the plane crash one or something They go through time and they come back. I forgot the name of that show But that's literally a ripoff of the 4400 sounds like five different shows.  It's definitely a fake-ass lost The thing that sucks about all of this is on the one hand You have all the noise on the streaming and on the other hand you have the theater which is dying Which is a sad thing because I look forward to the theater. That's all I look forward to you I told somebody at the other day. I said somebody I told the other day. I forgot who it was and I said, yo I really don't watch movies at my house because I don't have my first one I'm certainly not not the same way you watch exactly So when I do watch at the house like I don't have time number one and when I do watch it I'm so occupied with other things that I'm not but when I go to the theater my focus is on the movie and stuff You feel I'm saying yeah, unless unless it is strike it rich and become a multi-millionaire and I build like this massive Myself I've always wanted my own theater and then it's just me in there and like some close friends that I know aren't going to Be dicks that's about the only scenario. I can see where we have a good win here in about 10 years Am I one of those friends? Yeah, of course. Okay, of course. Yeah It'll be you and I hanging out in a private theater.  There's always wanted this close the door my my business don't want a movie Leave me alone think about You know multi-billionaires or even I think there's a trillionaire now. Is it yeah I think there is a trillionaire to but think about um Elon Musk. He dropped 44 billion dollars on Twitter Let me see his money just laying around.   I love you so not man Me personally like I would totally make it a movie night with popcorn food everything, you know I'm saying yeah, I mean it'd be amazing. It'd be amazing time amazing time Well, I think that's a good way to stop this conversation on a high happy note. Yes I mean we've been running for an hour and a half That's how good the conversation was it was I thought it you know it went to red shoe diaries It took a left turn a couple times down some sketchier paths, but we got back here But the umbrella was the movies at the at the Hollywood videos sure so we ended it off right now at that point We came right back around we came full circle And I guess that's the best we can ask for with a couple ADD individuals.  Peace


The final item of business is a member's business debate on motion 3023 in the name of Colin Smith on ethical principles in wildlife management. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put. As ever, I would invite members who wish to speak in the debate to press the request-to-speak buttons now or as soon as possible. I call on Colin Smith to open the debate for around seven minutes, Mrs Smith. Thank you, Presiding Officer. It is a privilege to lead this debate on the issue of ethical principles in wildlife management. I begin by thanking the very many members from across the chamber who signed my motion. I reflect something that I have been aware of since the day that I had the honour of being elected to this Parliament. There is a genuine interest and a real commitment to improving animal welfare that really does cut across party lines. That support from members from parties right across the chamber has led to a real meaningful change in recent years to improve the care and protection of animals from tougher penalties for animal and wildlife crime to the establishment of the Excellent Animal Welfare Commission. We have seen a greater scrutiny and interest in wildlife management, and I recognise the Government's commitment in this Parliament to closing the loopholes in the current hunting with dogs legislation and making progress in the licensing of grouse mures and reviewing snare in which I hope will lead to an outrind ban in their use. As the CAC League said in its briefing for this debate, trapping snare in its cruel is outdated. It has no place in modern wildlife management. It also highlights the fact that, while there has been much progress in animal welfare, there is much, much more still to do. Not least in our approach to wildlife management, which is too often ad hoc, can be illogical and often unscientific. Our attitudes to wild animals also differ significantly to domestic or farmed animals. Even among wild animals, protections vary from species to species, circumstance to circumstance, even though all animals are sentient. They like us to feel pain, they feel distress. There is some good practice when it comes to wildlife management, but there are also too many examples of appalling cruelty. In a modern, progressive society, we really do need a new, better approach. I said earlier that we have seen progress on animal welfare thanks to support in this Parliament, but that progress is also thanks to the many charities that give a voice to our fellow species who cannot speak for themselves. There are too many to name today, but we know those positive campaigns that really have delivered change. However, I want to highlight four organisations, one kind, the League Against Gross Sports and the other revived coalition partners, as well as the World Animal Welfare Committee and the UK Centre for Animal Welfare, which are leading the way and putting welfare at the heart of the debate on wildlife, examining how ethical reasoning can be applied to wildlife management and interventions. They recognise that there will always be wildlife management interventions that will mean harm to some animals. However, their work has highlighted the lack of a consistent approach to those interventions, the lack of a process that guides decisions around if, when and how those interventions take place to ensure that they are ethically led, evidence-based and prioritised animal welfare. However, such a framework exists, the international consensus principles for ethical wildlife control. The seven principles internationally recognised were developed by a panel of 20 experts convened in 2015 at the University of British Columbia. They are not intended to prohibit or prevent wildlife control, including lethal control, but they do aim to reduce unnecessary actions and therefore suffer and ensure that when controls are used, they are justifiable and acceptable. I would like to thank Colin Smyth for taking that intervention. We, Colin Smyth, do not recognise the fact that the Scottish Government has absolutely been out in front of making sure that wildlife crime and wildlife cruelty are kept to a very minimum. I very much recognise that progress, Mr Fillion. It is a point that I highlighted at the very beginning. However, there are still areas that we need to make further progress. What I hope to do today is to set out exactly how the Government can make progress by incorporating those ethical principles into the work every day, because it is something that I think is very difficult to argue with. The seven principles challenge decision makers to ask seven questions. Firstly, can the problem be mitigated by modifying human practice to prevent the need for control? For example, better refuge has been designed to reduce the supply of food in their towns for gulls or blocking potential entries to homes for mice as a first resort. Secondly, is there justification for the control? In other words, are there substantial harms being caused to people, property, livelihoods, ecosystems or other animals? Thirdly, is there a clear achievable outcome in how that will be monitored? A badger cow, for example, similar to the one in England, would not have met this principle given the lack of evidence that it actually had any impact on TB in cattle. The first principle asks, is the proposed method of control the one that carries the least animal welfare cost to the fewest animals? The Scottish Government has agreed a competency requirement for shooting deer, for example, but following that principle would logically extend that to other species. Fifthly, is the action socially acceptable? Sixthly, is the chosen control part of a proper systematic long-term plan? And finally, is the decision to control based on the situation or simply the negative characterisation of that particular type of animal? Presiding Officer, we are beginning to see international examples of putting such principles into practice. The animal kind accreditation programme of the British Columbia SPCA sets standards based on the principles, which wildlife and rodent control companies are signing up to there. Parts Canada, a federal government agency overseeing all land and marine parts, have adopted principles for its biodiversity programme. Crucially, Presiding Officer, there are real opportunities to do so here in Scotland. In 2014, NatureScot, then Scottish Natural Heritage, was the first of the UK's national nature agencies to adopt a wildlife position statement. It was forward-thinking at the time, but eight years on, there is a need to better align this position with modern definitions of animal welfare. I understand that NatureScot's position statement will be reviewed, and maybe the minister can confirm that today. What an opportunity, Presiding Officer, to incorporate those ethical principles in the work of NatureScot, placing up the heart of the Government's approach to wildlife management. We can, we should and we do need to go further. The Government should prioritise wildlife management projects or programmes and incentivise land managers who carry out the appropriate ethical assessments when deciding on any control methods. They should incorporate the ethical principles into non-statsary codes and guidance and into any species' licensing schemes. Ultimately, I believe that ethical principles should be incorporated into legislation, and if they need to be, I will bring forward a member's bill to do just that. Presiding Officer, Mahatma Gandhi once said that the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. However, it is not moral to still pepper a land with stink pits to lure animals to an excruciating death by snare in the name of wildlife management. It is not moral to allow grown men and women to continue to chase a fox to exhaustion in the name of wildlife management. It is not moral to purge thousands of wild animals and birds in a circle of destruction in the name of wildlife management perversely to protect other species so that we can then kill them for sport. We saw many glimmers of morality during the last Parliament with real progress on animal welfare. Fully incorporating the internationally recognised principles for ethical wildlife management would be world-leading. It really would show that moral progress that all of Scotland could be proud of. Thank you very much, Mr Sleith. Just a reminder, if members do make an intervention, they will need to repress their buttons. We have a bit of time in hand and I can recompense anybody who does take an intervention. With that, we move to the open debate. I call Christine Grahame to be followed by Rachel Hamilton for around four minutes. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I congratulate the member and colleague on the cross-party group on animal welfare on securing this debate and the temperate speech that he has delivered. I am pleased to support the motion and endorse the principles expressed by Revive, which includes league against school sports, one kind, common wheel, raptor, Percy UK and Friends of the Earth. That is some coalition. Indeed, one kind gave a presentation on these principles recently to the cross-party group on animal welfare, which I chair. We do make clear distinctions between what may be labelled pests, domestic animals and pets, yet they have everything in common. They are sentient with distinctive means of communicating with their species and their predators, and their drive is to survive and to procreate and continue their species. We also therefore have much in common with them. Over the decades, our knowledge of the animals around us hidden in the woods, underground, in our fields and in our homes has grown as the media of television and film has exposed their lifestyles. Last night, watching Springwatch, I watched a bee, orzmia by colour, which lives alone, build a protective nest for its eggs in discarded snail shells. It then blocks the entrance with stones that it had carried there and finally upturns the shell so that the entrance is hidden. Now, how clever is that? Today, too, as I drove to the constituency from beneath the bonnet, twigs flew up and I realised that pigeons had returned to nest in my Acerdraamondi tree, building it in the same place each year just above my car and tossing unsuitable building material on to it. The mice, which run between the cottage walls in the winter, have migrated back under the shed and into the small dike. Mr Smokey, using all his ancient feline instincts and skills, keeps in that bay.  In the morning, before daylight, our resident blackbird wakes everyone and every roosting sparrow in the holy tree with his glorious song and the early lone gray squirrel raids the bird feeder. During the early months of Covid, we were put in our place, no cars in the streets, the fear of this possibly deadly virus. The wildlife around us soon reasserted themselves, taking over those deserted streets. That small living organism Covid bypassed them and went straight for us. We, as a species, are not invincible. Why say this? Because we are privileged to hold the fate of these insects, birds and animals in our hands and some of these hands lay snares, set traps, shoot, poison and do this sometimes to protect creatures bred solely for sport and sport usually for the other privileged. I cannot support that in principle. In practice, we have the poisoning of birds of prey hunting for food to survive and feed their young. We have animals horrifically trapped in snares, tearing at their own flesh to escape. Fox hunting continues. I turn to three principles. Justifying control for sport, I cannot see a justification of breeding animals just for sport. Prioritising animal welfare that causes the least harm to the least number of animals, snares, it does not. It is indiscriminate. Decisions to control wildlife should be based on the specifics of the situation, not negative labels that apply to the target species. For example, the culling of sea deer when their welfare is of concern. I can support that. Applying those principles are as much our interests as the highest species of the animals. We are only custodians of the wildlife around us. It is also in the interests of diverse, intriguing and essential wildlife that surrounds us every other day and which we often fail to see. I thank Colin Smyth for bringing forward this important debate. Wildlife management in Scotland is an important and often misunderstood practice that is important to land managers, food producers, farmers and crofters. Author Mary Collwell said that it is part of the predator paradox that we consider some creatures as predators but exclude others. Even this restrictive category is filled with subtle subdivisions. For example, badgers are lovable bumblers when they eat grubs but we are thrown into cognitive dissonance when they overturn a hedgehog and devour the soft underbelly. Most predator and prey issues cannot be reduced to A plus B equals C. They are much more complex than that but so too are the importance of conservationists and land managers exempt from this debate on ethical management. A group who carry out necessary wildlife management on a daily basis are the Scottish Gamekeepers Association. They are the largest Scottish centre for deer management and train gamekeepers to the highest standard of wildlife management to tackle the difficult job of managing deer, many whom are contracted by Forestry and Land Scotland, a Scottish Government, Cwango, to cope with the swathes of dense forestry being planted, particularly in Galloway, where planting has driven the catastrophic decline of the much-loved curlew, a bird which features strongly in Galloway's consciousness. Members might recall my motion highlighting the importance of endangered birds, notably the Cappacalee. Beautiful birds such as this need our help as they face decline without proper wildlife management strategies that work to protect the bird to manage its habitat and predators. That almost extinct species needs our support to survive. However, the Scottish Government must get on top of the species decline, with 531 habitats and 603 species in Scotland in poor conditions and needing improvement. You would think that following COP26 it would be a huge priority of the Scottish Government to address the decline of Scotland's wildlife, so birds such as the Cappacalee do not face further decline. Habitat rejuvenation is important, and that is why it is disappointing that the SNP have failed to meet their peatland restoration targets and therefore failed to restore habitats that peatlands provide. Much more must be done so that peatlands do not continue to decline. I agree that when wildlife management is needed it should be based on evidence carried out by trained and qualified people, such as the many of Scotland's gamekeepers who operate around the country, working long and difficult hours to ensure that our countryside is properly managed. A nine-year study by the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust in Northumberland showed that where gamekeepers manage population of predators, populations of wading birds were three times more likely to successfully rear their young compared to when this was not happening. This shows the success of what highly regulated gamekeepers do on a daily basis and how their role provides a great conservation, environmental and economic role. I turn to the motion in itself. Collin's motion asks the Scottish Government to integrate ethical principles into the Scottish Government's strategic approach to wildlife management and its species licensing review. However, back in 2019, the shared approach to wildlife management brought together key organisations such as the RSPB, BASC and the Woodland Trust precisely to implement principles and act as an anchor for decision-making and action on the ground. That shared a robust approach offers a reference point when opinions differ, but it also explains that wildlife management means that we must look at the ways to contribute to it, as well as nature-based solutions. It would be worth highlighting at this point if Collin Smith would like to take an intervention on what his assessment of the current shared approach was given that it was supported by a broad range of rural and animal welfare and countryside organisations. I am happy to make an intervention and to take an intervention, but that is a good starting point. I think that we need to go further. We need to look at our wildlife practices to make sure that they have that ethical audit, if you like, and to set out the standards that we expect people to adhere to when it comes to a wildlife practice. The 2019 work was a good starting point, but we need to go a lot further and really embed those ethical principles, because when you look at those principles, it is very difficult to disagree with any of them. I thank Collin Smith for joining me in considering those shared approaches. I will get to the end, but I think that any changes in wildlife management must be consulted on. It is important that we bring together the people who are already practicing conservation management across Scotland. I stress the need for those people to be able to be part of that conversation and to provide that environmental, economic and conservation benefits to us all. I congratulate Collin Smith on securing this debate and the importance of places on animal welfare. We must ensure animal welfare in all settings, whether the animals are pets, domestic animals, we are for food, wild animals and even those animals that have become a problem. It is clear that where management and control is required, it must be carried out as humanely as possible, and we must do everything that we can to avoid distress for the animal. While doing that, we must also recognise that managing population numbers can also have an animal welfare role if you take, for example, managing deer numbers. There are a small number of landowners that avoid carrying out that work because it costs money to have it carried out appropriately. That has led to calls out of season and that practice is totally unacceptable. It has also happened on Government land and steps must be taken to ensure that it never happens again. There are no penalties for land managers who do not manage deer numbers to within the capacity of their land. A more controversial issue is the management of species that are introduced and then cause a problem. Mink released in the western isles from fire farms, wrecked havoc on wildlife and required to be trapped and dispatched. Regardless of the problems that they were causing, that needed to be done humanely. A similar exercise was carried out with hedgehogs due to them having no natural predators, their numbers increased impacting on local bird life. No thought was given to the impact when they were released. Therefore, I believe that much more research needs to be carried out when we look to reintroduce species to ensure that we do not create conflict and unintended consequences. If this work is not thorough, then issues arise and the goodwill of the community is lost or indeed the natural environment is damaged. Managing numbers when that happens is necessary work but again needs to be carried out humanely. While recognising it is often human intervention that has led to the problem in the first place, if those species were not released they would not be causing a problem and we must tighten legislation with regard to releasing non-native species into an area in order to make the public more aware of the issues that can arise. We need to take steps as well to prevent conflict arising in the first place and where conflict occurs we need to look at solutions and if we are to manage numbers we must make sure that that is done with the welfare of the animal at the forefront. Coming from the highlands, I am aware of the difficulties that a rogue fox can cause at lambing time, for instance. That causes distress to the flock and to the farmer or crofter. While I believe that rogue foxes must be dealt with, I also believe that that must be carried out as humanely as possible. I fail to understand how anyone can get pleasure out of hunting them down for sport and therefore I welcome the efforts to tighten the legislation and close loopholes and I hope that we can take the same approach in other areas of conflicts to make sure that our response is proportionate but does not cause any unnecessary suffering to animals. Thank you very much to say it Ms Grant and I call on Mark Ruskell who joins us remotely to be followed by Jim Fairlie for around four minutes Mr Ruskell. Thanks very much Deputy Presiding Officer and can I join other members in thanking Colin Smith for his real cross-party leadership on animal welfare at Holyrood and also joining his thanks to the animal welfare charities that we have in Scotland for their relentless work in this area. I think that these ethical principles really hold a mirror up to our relationship with the natural world. They highlight where wildlife management has moved on to a better footing but they also point to where traditional and often anti-scientific practices are unfortunately still the norm. They also reveal that the way we treat our domestic animals can be dramatically different to the way that we treat some wild animals, which are still sadly viewed as pests and vermin to be eradicated. The study from the League Against Tril Sports showing an estimated quarter of a million wild animals killed each year on sporting estates shows how far there is still to go. The estimates that half of these animals are non-target species such as hedgehogs or domestic cats show how cruel and indiscriminate practices such as snaring can be. We have seen in recent years numerous wildlife reviews led by eminent chairs, a poosty on wildlife crime and sentencing, wearity on driven grass, moors, bonomy on hunting with wild dogs, as well as the critical report from the deer working group that is now being acted on through the Green SNP agreement. Each of those reviews has moved a dial a little, but there is still a need for a consistent approach in relation to how we manage wildlife. The position statement on wildlife management from SNH in 2014 and then the later concordat that was signed was a really good first step. The SGA signed up to that as well, the gamekeepers, but eight years on we are all agreeing that there is a need for further reform. I very much welcome the debate on those principles and the fact that the framework has already been adopted by Parks Canada tells me that it can probably work here too. As Colin outlined, the seven principles are largely common sense. Take the first principle that we should look into the root causes of conflicts of wildlife. It is obvious that many of the problems that we have with gulls in towns are due to rubbish and food waste collection issues. The gulls are trying to tell us something about the need for a much more circular economy, but the mentality of seeing certain species as pests is very deep-seated and it does need challenged. I was saddened to hear calls from NFUS recently for lethal controls on protected white-tailed eagles. While sea eagles can scavenge for dead lambs, it is a small proportion of their diet, and it is quite clear from the research that incidents of eagles taking live lambs are rare and that better husbandry, including lambing taking place under shelter, would address the real causes of the quite horrific levels of black loss that we see in sheep farming. Many of the techniques to minimise that black loss are being trialled by farmers and crofters under the excellent seagull management scheme run by Nature Scott. It is delivering welfare benefits to sheep as well as eagles, but there is no need or justification for the culling of sea eagles and those who persecute them illegally are quite clearly criminals. The framework acknowledges that the culling of some species may in some circumstances be justified, but it rightly demands systematic plans with clear objectives to be considered, rather than habitual culling of animals such as foxes, which often result in populations just bouncing back again. Clear objectives are important, and I think that one kind in their briefing for this debate is right to point out that the badge of culling in England failed to meet its objectives curve, bovine and TB. The debate on the principles is very welcome and timely. I very much look forward to hearing from the minister later about how the Scottish Government can embed them further into policy, practice and, ultimately, the law. Thank you very much indeed, Mr Ruskell. I now call the final speaker in the open debate, Jim Fairlie, again, in around four minutes. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I would like to congratulate Colin Smyth on bringing this member's debate forward. I am very pleased to talk into tonight's debate on the ethical principles of wildlife management. It is clearly an emotive subject and can be extremely divisive with portalised views from both sides. My aim in speaking tonight is to hopefully add some balance on the basis that have been involved from both sides. As a youngster, my life was spent outside watching birds and animals with total fascination.  To me, they were thoroughbreds of the sky. With birds sometimes racing from France and covering over 500 miles in one day, they were an absolute passion of mine for years. For my neighbours, they were vermin that landed on their roofs and their washing that was hanging out in the line. One person's passion for pigeons was another person's burden on the washing line. As a young on-rhythmologist, I was absolutely fascinated by all other birds and it was why I became involved in farming in the first place. The majesty of birds of prey, especially the Peregrine Falcon, was one of those absolute fascinations that gripped me. The idea of seeing a Peregrine Falcon in real life was only a dream to a townie like me, but I still used to go out and seek them for many years but all to no avail. In that, there was also conflict that came from being a livestock keeper in the shape of racing pigeons. My love and fascination at wildlife, especially birds of prey, and the effects of a sparrowhawk attack on my racing birds. You can imagine the horror of seeing one of your most valued birds being pinned to the ground as a sparrowhawk starts stripping chunks of flesh off its back and the bird had flown from France for me on two occasions. It is one of those life lessons that sticks with you and starts the process of coming to terms with the understanding that not everything is as it seems at first. The lesson was well made as I then made my transition from being a townie to shepherd and sheep farming. Again, my appreciation and love was challenged when I witnessed various fairly horrendous attacks on livestock that were in my charge. Foxes, crows, gulls, ravens and seagulls are all absolutely beautiful intelligent animals, but wild animals play by nature's rules, which by and large are brutal. I take great exception to Mark Ruskell's insinuation that sheep farmers' black loss is somehow the sheep farmers' fault. I also take great exception to the point that he makes where he says that only injured or dead lambs are lifted by sea eagles. That is patently not the case. I have read the seven principles of ethical wildlife management and absolutely understand the desire to see human and animals coexisting in places where animals are under threat, but the Scottish Government has undoubtedly been at the forefront of wildlife protection while trying to find the balance that is absolutely required to allow farmers and conservationists to protect their respective charges. You have only got to look at the introduction of the sea eagles in the west and the conflicts that that still causes, as Mark Ruskell talked about, as does the illegal introduction on subsequent protection of the Eurasian beaver in my constituency. Those introductions require careful balanced management, and as situations develop, that management practice must be adapted. I am confident that the Government is always cognisant of those change in circumstances and as populations change, they monitor the impacts on local communities and local populations of wildlife activity. The Government, as I have said, has shown itself to be actively working to protect the beauty and diversity of Scotland's ecology, and I welcome that greatly, but I would gently remind everyone that there must be a proper balance for all those demands on our land. My search for all things wildlife have been satiated by my involvement in farming, especially hill farming. The elusive peregrine became a regular sighting. Buzzards are like sparrows in terms of sightings. Sea eagles were regularly passing through the ground I farmed, and I have witnessed red kites and hen harriers are plenty. All birds that you would not have seen 20 years ago now, there are huge far more numbers than what there ever was when I was growing up. What I have seen less and less of is golden plovers, lapwings, curlews, red shanks and oyster catchers. At the same time, I have seen an explosion in the number of ravens and other corvids. Their effect on the numbers of ground nesters has been absolutely devastating, and I think that it is disingenuous for NGOs to say that the two things are not related, because they absolutely are. I have witnessed it with my own eyes. Protection and balance are equally important, and I urge the Government to continue with the balanced approach that they are so far taking. I would like to begin by echoing the thanks to members of Parliament who have participated in tonight's debate and equally to Colin Smyth for bringing this motion forward on a very important issue. I have been very pleased to get the chance to listen to members' views and to have my opportunity to restate the Government's position, namely that we take the welfare of wild and other animals very seriously indeed. We have taken a number of steps in recent years to put our words into action to ensure the highest standards of animal and wildlife welfare in Scotland. We established the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission to provide independent advice, including on the welfare of sentient animals and wildlife. The commission has already looked at a number of really important areas, producing valuable reports, including on the use of glue traps, a statement on animal sentience and a response to dear working group recommendations, and we are taking much of that advice and translating it into action. Alongside our commitment to the highest standards of animal welfare, consideration must always be given to ensuring the protection of public health and of vital economic interests that would not be able to operate safely without effective and humane management of wildlife. That is the balance that has been spoken of to tonight in the chamber. It was with that need in mind that we committed in our 2019-2020 programme for government to develop a strategic approach to wildlife management, which has animal welfare at its core, while protecting public health and economic and conservation considerations. That commitment has been progressed through the development of NatureScot's shared approach to wildlife management, which was completed in 2019. It has been pointed out, I think, by Rachel Hamilton, that the shared approach that Concordat brought together a range of organisations across Scotland. In doing that, it sets out how it will work together to establish healthy and valued populations of wildlife. It describes the shared priorities and an overall willingness to co-operate. It was developed collectively and represents a wide variety of points of use, approaches and perspectives, including that of RSPB, the Scottish Wildlife Trust, the Woodland Trust, NFUS, the Scottish Gamekeepers Association and BASC. That collaboration is not easily won, and it is very important. As well as representing consensus, the approach is also evidence-based and iterative, and it is capable of being updated as NatureScot continues to review the latest thinking and evidence, for example, on sentience and other animal welfare principles. The collaboration that went into it, as well as its ability to adapt as evidence does, are two very important points for the Government. Indeed, NatureScot is currently in the process of working with animal welfare organisations on how the ethical principles that we are discussing today can be integrated into the shared approach, and that is evidence, I think, of the iterative nature of it. I hope that that answers both Colin Smyth and Rachel Hamilton's questions about how the Government intend to embed the principles within our current framework. Yes, absolutely. Rachel Hamilton. Thank you, and I'm glad to hear you talking about the shared approach, minister. Does the minister agree that, as well as all the other organisations that she's mentioned just now, that other individuals who have a role in this should be brought in to ensure that there is a fair consultation process? I absolutely agree with that principle, and I've long taken the view that, as policies develop, which affects people's lives and their livelihoods, they ought to be engaged in the development thereof. That's something that I think that we can apply to this and across the pace in Government. Those issues, the development of the principles, as it pertains to the shared approach, were something that I was pleased to discuss with the Wild Animal Welfare Committee when I met them last week to discuss the principles. As well as seeking to understand how the ethical principles can support the Government's high-level approaches, we're also seeking to use them in quite a targeted and specific way. My officials have arranged a workshop for 14 June to explore how the ethical principles can be applied to deer management in Scotland, something that has been mentioned by a number of contributors this evening. We know that tackling the issue of deer numbers is one of the most pressing biodiversity challenges facing Scotland, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the ethical principles can be built into that. Members will also be aware that we made a commitment in our programme for government to conduct a general review of the species licensing systems under which much of wildlife management operates. That will be an opportunity to look at how the system operates through the lens of wildlife welfare but always bearing in mind the need to protect crops and livestock or to maintain, for example, aircraft safety, and all that requires control to do. The licensing of course of wildlife management is strictly governed by law, and it's important that we ensure that the law is being followed in the way that operations and managers carry it out. It will ensure that, in addition to existing statutory requirements, welfare principles are baked into the way that the system operates. I look forward to reporting to Parliament later in this term on progress in that regard. This work sits alongside a significant spread of wildlife and animal welfare work that the Government has and is developing. We recently brought forward the Animals and Wildlife Act 2020, which strengthened penalties across a range of wildlife crimes. Those tougher penalties should ensure that the minority of people who would casually abuse our wildlife will be held accountable with consequences that reflect the severity of their crime. We're also taking, as has been mentioned, the Hunting with Dogs Bill through the Parliament. The welfare of wildlife is at the heart of the bill, as we replace existing legislation, making the law clearer and closing loopholes, which will ensure that the practice of hunting and killing a mammal with a dog, which has been unlawful for 20 years, will no longer take place in Scotland. We're also taking action, yes, absolutely. Colin Smyth, does the minister believe that those ethical principles should be considered as part of the legislation that closing the loopholes goes through Parliament? On the minister and I have a different view on whether we should have a licensing scheme, but surely any licensing scheme should be subject to those ethical principles. I believe that there is a huge amount in what we're already doing, which is aligned with the ethical principles, and I'm interested in how what we bring forward can also align with them. That's something that I'll continue to consider as we bring each piece of work forward. I'm also taking action to put an end to the cruel and unlawful killing of raptors, which has continued to take place, particularly in and around Uplands. It's with that in mind that we will bring forward legislation in this parliamentary term to put in place a meaningful, effective and workable sanctions regime through a licensing scheme. I'm very short of time, but I'm happy to, if I can... I can give you the time back. Okay, that's great, thank you. It's just briefly, I don't want to put the minister on the spot, so I appreciate an answer perhaps later, but this is all very laudable, but policing is a huge issue because most of this takes place in far-fund places in the middle of the hills and woods where there's nobody about, and you know that, or the minister knows that possibly already, so can consideration be given to additional policing for wildlife crime? Minister. I thank Christine Grahame for a very important point, because, as she points out, much of these activities do take place beyond the eyes of our police and other enforcement authorities. I'm working with the police as we develop all of this to understand what they need to do their job effectively, and actually the hunting with dogs legislation, one of the points that we are seeking to ensure is that the law is much clearer, so that the police have an easier time in understanding when it's being breached. I am just to add to some of those other bits of work, Presiding Officer. We have committed to end the use of glue traps, a particularly cruel and harmful practice. I've committed to reviewing the use of snares and that beyond the statutory review. We already have the most robust legislation on snaring in the UK, but I'm undertaking a review that will consider whether it ought to be banned entirely. In all of those ways and more, I hope that it's clear that the Scottish Government has an on-going commitment to ensuring the highest possible animal welfare standards, including for our wildlife, while remaining at the forefront of matters like sentience. There is much that I agree with in the principles, and I'm committed to working with members across the chamber, with interested stakeholders, including all those charities that work so hard that Colin Smyth mentioned, as we understand how the principles can sit alongside our ambitious programme for work that the Government is taking forward to protect our animals and our wildlife.


So that was all the time. So if anyone wants, just go ahead. So, yeah, the next topic is about inclusive name initiatives. So it's not Remkins, it's serious. So, you know, in Jenkins, we invested a lot of time in cleaning up technology and thanks a lot that don't work for doing the presentation today for the details. We have this community Jenkins for discussion, it's new landing page where we integrate all the inclusive naming cleanup. So it replaced our G-ray issues and ethics. We aggregated everything here on basically discourse because it's easy to edit, it's easy to collaborate and discuss, and we will be putting all the links here. So basically it's an official project in advocacy and outreach, so I made a patch which basically made it explicit, so we agreed on that more than one year ago, but yeah, just edited. And here are some links, and you can see that there is a link referring to inclusive naming initiative. So this is what I was about talking about. We have a lot of contributors including me, Angelic, Thierry Vasylenko, Karin Target, and Kara Dela Mark. We joined this inclusive naming initiative channels, we contributed to some meetings. So what is it? It's global initiative which is focused on helping organizations, not only open source but also private source to adopt inclusive terminology. And you can see that there are actually multiple organizations participating, including the Linux Foundation, Cloud Native Computing Foundation, these are founding members. So Priyanka Sharma and Steven Augustus are one of the founders of these initiatives, they're from CNCF. Also there are quite big companies, and there are also related projects, including for example, by Kubernetes by Linux Foundation Network Inc. And what I proposed to, we as Jenkins and maybe as the continuous delivery foundation also joined this initiative. So we joined this related project, so basically our name here. I prefer maybe this advocacy and outreach link so that we highlight the PS Jenkins project that we are committed to cleaning up terminology because this is what we announced. And for us, there is no reason to not participate, so yeah, it would be great to participate here. And we agreed that we would be helping inclusive naming created with marketing. So Alex Earl, who posted on terminology updates on CNF recently, he would be also interviewing with inclusive naming initiative and we are helping by sharing our expertise. So, for example, here they shared a tool for discovering mis-usages on screenshots embedded in the documentation. So he created a tool for that, fully-decorized and somewhere open source. So we can do it already, and I think that for us it would be reasonable to not only join this related project, but actually try to participate in organizations. It could be Jenkins or it could be the continuous delivery foundation or both. And for us it would be free because we are non-profits open source and we can join for free. For companies, they're currently discussing what would be the cost for participating. So for example, I also brought it up in my company that, hey, since we contribute a lot to terminology cleanup in Jenkins, we also join as a company and you can also offer it in your company, see if you contribute. But for open source projects it's free. And this is basically my proposal. Let's join. I still want to put it on the developer, my name is the official voting at one of the governance meetings. But I think it's quite set forward for us. And it's definitely win-win situation for all participants. So, well, why not? And yeah, they have a Slack channel. So yeah, there is inclusive naming somewhere. Just a second. It's here. And on this channel you can see that actually there are multiple work streams including community, including marketing, language, setting standards, company outreach, which is rather most communicating with OSPA, etc. But we participated there already. There are regular meetings where we participated. And we could again participate more highlighted the Jenkins project and basically work together on setting, for example, standards, marketing and aligning, use other organizations. Questions? Comments? I think it looks very promising. So the kinds of initiatives that are happening here, would they assist us with phrasing things? What sorts of things do you see us involved with? Yeah, they're organizing quite big initiative in terms of cash. So there is an ongoing proposal to ask premier members, for example, for $15,000 per year for membership, etc. They want to funnel the most of this money to marketing. They are non-profit and what it means that they will be facilitating. For example, they plan a series of blogs about how open source projects and organizations create basically an environment and how they contribute to naming and clicking up. Definitely something where we could contribute. And since they have their marketing team, they need content, we can provide content and they can provide marketing for us by using our content. And vice versa, they could create generic guidelines, etc., using their resources, their outreach programs and we could consume these guidelines, we could implement standards, or we could just, for example, adopt guidelines as Jeff's current angelic is working on a job for localizations and for NTS updates, but in the future we could get these standards out of these working groups. So for me, it's clear win-win and it's totally non-commitment. So why not just by saying that we join this initiative, it will be also quite a marketing splash. Why not? Yeah, I think so. We're going to do the work we are. So why not, why not announce it? Why not say so? Yeah, I was going to say we're already doing this in alignment with what we're already doing and yeah. Okay. And thanks all. So I will bring up this topic in the developer's list, maybe this recording to save time once it's ready.


Good afternoon Foundation staff. This is level 4 researcher Theron Sherman and today's broadcast illustrates one of the age-old problems We're always facing in our containment duties. We're talking about SCP-5535 It's level 1 classified containment class Euclid, disruption class dark, risk class caution Why do we have so many of these now? Special containment procedures SCP-5535 is kept in the standard humanoid containment chamber at site 17 A guard must be posted in the adjoined observation room in case SCP-5535 attempts to harm itself SCP-5535's left arm has been encased in a specialized container which prevents it from moving This container is to be removed once per week to prevent muscle atrophy in the arm This can only be done by the current researcher assigned to SCP-5535 and a guard must be present during the removal Description SCP-5535 Previously known as Mateo Vélez is a Hispanic male born on July 5th, 1986 Who suffers from an anomalous version of alien hand syndrome? The subject completely lacks control over its left arm which is actively hostile toward the main body as well as any surrounding individuals despite not having sustained any damage to the corpus callusum the posterior parietal cortex The supplementary motor area or the anterior cingulate cortex, which is usually the cause of AHS history SCP-5535 was arrested for the murder of its wife in the attempted murder of its child on July 13, 2016 The subject claimed that it lost control over its left hand, which had then choked its wife to death against its will SCP-5535 was released by the police and delivered to a hospital It was further detained by the foundation after it's anomalous brain chemistry was discovered by the hospital following containment SCP-5535 claimed that it had been possessed by some sort of incorporeal entity that took control of its arm Incident 5535.1 During a weekly removal of the container constricting SCP-5535's arm instead of attempting to assault nearby personnel as usual The hand mimicked the act of writing in hopes of uncovering more about the anomaly. The hand was provided with pen and paper It is to be noted that this seemed to aggravate SCP-5535 Who was extremely vocal about his objections and had to be restrained the note written by the hand has been attached below First of all, I apologize for trying to hurt you people before you stopped me from moving So I thought you were with him now. I have noted that he is imprisoned as well. So I know that that's not the case This man is not who he says he is. He is an imposter and a body snatcher. I am the real Mateo Velez. I do not know what he is, but it's not human. I assure you of that It came to me and forced itself into my mind It tried to overwrite me or erase me or something, but it didn't succeed not fully I was forced to watch through my own eyes as this bastard killed my beloved with my hands But when he put his hands on my daughter, I knew I couldn't let him I managed to take control of the part of the brain that controls his hand and I used it to stop him I've been clinging on ever since Please help me if you can. I can feel myself fading and I don't know how much longer I can hold on You must help me to get rid of this fake You must erase his consciousness out of my brains and return control of what belongs to me back Help me. Please help me Afterward After the previous message was delivered the affected arm fell dormant and has been considerably more docile than before Only occasionally attempting to harm the body Considering the contents of the message the container is to be removed thrice weekly and communications with the armor to be upheld in order to Determine the exact nature of the anomaly SCP-5535 has been vocal about his objections toward this development claiming the other consciousness to be lying research continues Oh boy, he's the body snatcher. No, he's the body snatcher.  Alright staff that ends our broadcast for the day use your foundation encrypted YouTube account to like comment and subscribe And hit the bell and support our broadcast at patreon.com site 42