signal gasoline let every traffic signal remind you you do go farther with signal gasoline yes you do go farther with signal the signal oil company and your neighborhood signal dealer bring you another curious story by the whistler tonight to rent danger I'm the whistler and I know many things for I walked by night I know many strange tales hidden in the hearts of men and women who have stepped into the shadows yes I know the nameless terrors of which they dare not speak when in the editorial offices of the Cincinnati Gazette the news was received that killer Carter the gang murderer had escaped from the penitentiary in Columbus and that he had been at large for 24 hours it was decided that Danny Pearson star reporter was to be sent up to the capital to cover the manhunt it was sure to follow Danny borrowed a car from Clem Tracy the rewrite man and headed north late on Friday afternoon car trouble held him up and at one o'clock he was still far from his destination he was getting too sleepy to drive so when he saw the tourist sign in front of the lonely farmhouse he made his decision he'd stop get a few hours of sleep and continue into Columbus in the early hours of morning he pulled in the lane parked the car and went up onto the porch it took a few moments to rouse anyone but finally the door opened and there stood a woman good evening I was driving along the road looking for a place to stay for the night and I saw you a tourist sign out front so I thought I'd stop and see if you had any room why don't you drive on to the city well I'm too tired to drive that distance tonight I'm afraid I'd fall asleep at the wheel you do have a room don't you I guess so cost you two dollars in advance that's all right and I don't serve any meals here well I'm not hungry and I'll be leaving in the morning before breakfast all right come in is it okay leave my car in the driveway here it'll be safe there nobody else stealing come in he certainly isn't very friendly Danny is she but a room is a room and it'll be nice and quiet here for the night the house is large and dingy and eerily quiet almost too quiet you'll find everything neat and clean it's a bathroom to the right of the bed and plenty of towels and soap oh thank you looks fine did you leave your luggage in the car no I don't have any luggage with me I'm traveling light well I guess anyone who drives an expensive car like yours can do anything you like I'm going to bed myself right away so if there's anything else you wanted better think of it now well thanks but there's nothing else I need good night mrs. tonight your hostess is hospitable isn't she but don't worry about it people are sometimes like that on the farm not used to talking much they prefer action because action speak louder and longer than words the bed is soft and comfortable that's the main thing just made for your night rest who's there I said who's there who are you my name is Claremann Roe well Claire do you make a habit of walking into strange men's rooms in the middle of the night I want to talk to you huh raise our nervous about I'm afraid you'll find me in here she the lady who showed you the room and why don't you leave because I have to talk with you okay go ahead talk I don't know where to start just tell me that you're lonesome you don't have any excitement on the farm you're looking for something to do it's an old routine it's nothing like that I know you've anything I'm crazy but I've got to ask you will you take me away with you when you go me why should I because I have to get away from here I never want to see this house again as long as I live why don't you just run away you don't need me because I don't have a car and I don't have any money my mother would have me picked up by the police she'd tell them I wasn't of age well are you I'm 23 years old but I can't prove it why not because I'm an adopted child and I don't know where I was born and my mother call that lady my mother she'd lie about my age just to keep me from going away well how do I know you're of age look at me do I look 17 no I'll have to admit you don't I know I'm 23 years old but she won't let me go why do you want to run away because because that lady my foster mother last night she murdered my foster father whistler fans we members of the cast certainly owe you a great big thanks tonight in fact two of them two weeks ago you'll recall we asked a favor of you asked if you'd be kind enough to drop in on the folks who are bringing you the whistler your signal gasoline dealer and tell him how you like this program well since then signal gasoline dealers all the way from Canada to Mexico have been telling us how many of you stopped at their station and expressed enthusiasm for the whistler so naturally we of the cast are mighty happy and mighty grateful to you oh but that's only the half of it you see during the past month the popularity of the whistler has continued to increase so much that now according to the latest radio popularity survey more people listen to the whistler than to any other West Coast program yes the whistler is now way out in front so for your loyalty thanks again to all of you from all of us and now back to the whistler Danny Pearson had driven up from Cincinnati looking for a murderer but he hadn't expected to find one so soon nor to find another one than the one he was looking for but you never know what you'll find when you stop at a lonely farmhouse where they take in tourists Danny you lie there in your bed there's a good-looking young girl asks your protection from her murdering foster mother if this is a gag it's a pretty rugged one let's break this up I don't feel like playing games I gotta get some sleep you don't believe me but I'm telling you the truth ever since they adopted me they've done nothing but fight with one another you've seen my mother you can tell how cold and strong she is my father was just as weak as she is strong she bullied him for years mostly because he didn't make a lot of money well she cares about his money because we never had any she hates everything and everybody especially my father how do you know she killed him did you see no she threatened more than once to kill him though last night I was in bed and I heard a shot wasn't sure whether or not I dreamed it so I didn't get up to see but when I came down this morning she said that he had left and wasn't coming back that he'd gone out west somewhere that didn't sound like him because he was born and brought up in this part of the country and he wouldn't leave it for anything how in the world do you know he's dead you know in law you have to produce a body I haven't seen it but I think I know where it is oh where today I was working out on the farm and I noticed a patch of grounds up in the edge of the woods that was recently dug up when she saw me out there she got very angry ordered me into the house and positive she killed him and buried him there what are you doing in this man's room I was just talking to him I thought up to your father's six once or just like she was just talking stealing from the guests sneaking in to rob them or worse no I only wanted to talk he was just telling me about the shows and things in the city get back to your room and stay there get I catch you in here again you'll wish your head stayed there and that's for you young man you'd better watch your step or you'll be in trouble on our look wait justice well Danny cozy little situation you stepped into isn't it a girl pretty but strange who accuses her foster mother of being a murderer Mrs. Monroe in turn accuses the daughter of being like her father who evidently made a habit of robbing his tourist guests in their sleep and how about that Danny she did sneak into your room did she come to talk as she said or to rob you and what's it all about anyway who can you believe but there is one thing you know you're going to get up get dressed and get out of this place as fast as you can that drive into town doesn't look half as far now but just as you're about to leave you see something slip under your door a piece of paper a note go on Danny pick it up and read it please you've got to believe me I need your help my room is across the hall Claire that's right crumple it up and throw it away Danny but wait a minute suppose she is telling the truth suppose she is in danger you couldn't go off and leave her like this especially not as pretty a girl as Claire Danny Pearson don't put on a light get dressed and come on with me I'm gonna come on where we going you're going to show me where you think your father was buried so the two of you move cautiously out of the house into the darkness of the outside night you pick up a shovel at the barn and start up the path through a field of sharp tough hay you keep looking over your shoulder afraid that she might see you and come out of the house after you why should you be afraid of her well if she killed a man once she could do it again finally you reach the woods and Claire points out the patch of ground she thinks her mother made into a graveyard I wish we could see a little better we'll see too well I'm afraid ground isn't very hard shovel sinks right into it told you it would the boss could see me now why I'm doing it I'll never know maybe it's because you're like me what what makes you think that because you'd have run away you've gone back to sleep after she took me away back to sleep hey tell me is what she said about your foster father true you mean about him stealing from the guests yes she hounded him about money so that he finally took to that to satisfy her when tourists came you'd wait till they were asleep and then slip in and rob them yeah but didn't anybody ever catch him not that we ever knew of he only took part of their money not all of it so they didn't miss it until they left and then they had no proof sweet little racket maybe somebody caught on and that's why he went out west I don't think so because we didn't have any tourists here last night at least not that I know of it's possible oh it could have taken somebody in after you were asleep yes possible then he might have tried to rob them they caught him and he had to leave hurriedly I could account for his disappearance yes but hey I just had something oh Danny I got hold of it here to count his coat my father's coat yeah just when I had it figured out another way Danny don't dig anymore I'm getting scared I couldn't stand to look at it don't dig anymore just fill it in we we found out what we wanted to find out please fill it take it easy baby I don't like this any more than you do I'm just doing it because you wanted me to I couldn't bear to look at it don't dig anymore okay I'll fill it in I guess we've seen enough to know you were right so you put the coat back where you found it Danny and fill in the hole again you pat the dirt down again just as you found it and start back for the house on the way back to the house Claire hold your arm tightly and you notice for the first time how soft and warm she is of course she's trembling a little bit but who wouldn't Danny will you promise to take me away tomorrow I couldn't stand another night here where would I take you what would I do with you when I got you there I got enough to do without taking care of somebody else take me to some place far away some city I'll get a job and take care of myself don't worry about that just get me away from here your mother might accuse me of kidnapping once she knew I was never coming back I don't think she'd even care please Danny don't make me stay here I'm afraid she might even do something to me if she finds out I know what happened you've got to help me all right all right I'm a sucker but I'll do it but remember this once I get you out of here you're strictly on your own I got enough things to worry about without trying to take care of you thank you Danny thank you we'll leave the first thing in the morning no we'll leave tonight right now that's awfully sad you wanted to get out of here didn't you I'm leaving right now you can do what you want come or stay I'll go with you we're almost at the house don't even bother to go inside and get anything she might hear here's my car we'll just jump in and beat it game yes all right now be quiet we'll get in the car and let it roll backwards into the road just a minute surprise you didn't think I'd let you get away did you they put that shotgun down it might go off it might if you start anything now listen here mrs. Monroe thought I was asleep didn't you I had better sense I watched you leave the house together and I had a pretty good idea you weren't coming back so what what do you think you're doing with that gun maybe I'm protecting my daughter from a past talking stranger I can take care of myself that remains to be seen as for you young man I want you to get back in your car drive off and never come around here again that's a very good idea I'll buy that should have left here a long time ago I'm going with him stay where you are I'm old enough to do what I want to do I'm gonna leave and you can't stop me you don't think so you wouldn't dare pull that trigger put your foot on that running board and try and I'll look girl keep out of this maybe I'm doing this as much to protect you from her I don't need any protection wait somebody's coming the car yeah it looks like they're turning into your lane both you get in the car quick keep your lights out drive it in the barn I'm a police officer what can I do for you we're chasing a man we think he came up this way you've seen any strangers around lately what did he do he escaped from the state penitentiary is he dangerous he's a cold-blooded murderer he escaped yesterday and we've cracked him down to this vicinity he's been driving stolen cars last we heard he was driving a big rich looking convertible he picked up in Columbus have you seen him no nobody stopped here didn't even see anybody passing the road oh well he's in this neighborhood somewhere but say didn't you know about this before I mean I thought you did when I saw you with your shotgun here oh oh no I I just saw you coming up the lane and I like to be prepared for strangers this time of night yeah sure it is pretty late you want to be in bed I don't let this keep you up you needn't worry about Carter we'll get him I won't worry oh that's what say but all those tire tracks on the ground where there where my flashlights pointing they go towards the barn those are tractor tire mark oh well I'm sorry that I bothered you man but well we've got a job to do that's all right mister I could have helped you some we'll keep looking good night man okay I'll let's go too bad you couldn't hear what was being said Danny waiting in the barn but while the lady and the officer were talking you had some things to say to Claire I think just wait you see who that is out there a man got out of a car and he's talking to her you know who he is no but he's got a flashlight wait a minute something on his coat lapel flashes I think it's a bad it must be the police what are we going to do I told you nothing murder is a matter of proof so we can prove that your mother murdered your father we don't have a leg to stand on anyway I told you I don't want to get mixed up in it I got enough to worry about myself it's all right with me all I want to do is get out of here just figure some way to get that gun away from your mother Danny the men are leaving driving down to the road she's coming back to the ball I just sit tight wait gone also they're gone I suppose you're breathing easier now maybe I am maybe I'm not will you stop pointing that gun at us I will when I finished what I'm going to do you won't get away with shooting anybody you want to know I don't intend to stand here talking all night here's what I want you to do I want the both of you to get in that car and drive the kingdom come if you can never want to see either one of you again as long as I live changed your mind suit me come on Danny let's get out of here while we've got the chance heaven knows what she might do okay let's go just a minute before you go clear I think there's something you ought to know about your fine new friend I know all I want to know about him do you know what he really is he's a murderer escaped from the state prison yesterday and the police are looking for them they'll get him sooner or later they always do what do you think of that I don't believe it and even if it were true I I don't care where did you pick up this routine about me being a murderer don't listen to her Danny I believe you what if I was a murderer wouldn't make the slightest difference in the world to me because nanny I'm in love with you do you know what you're saying yes I know what I'm saying come on let's get out of here she gives me the jitters don't I know okay if that's the way everybody wants it we'll go I don't know what we'll do but figure out something you better think hard hurry up Danny yes hurry up you'll get caught quicker that way all right everybody stand where you are put that gun down lady Andy you will now go along the other side to bond all three of you stand over there Dave see if they have any guns no guns on that one no gun sir no guns and good I don't misunderstand me there might not be anything wrong here but I had to come back and take a look it's pretty unusual for a woman to be walking around outside at two o'clock in the morning with a shotgun now out with it what's going on what are you hiding in the barn for who's this car belong to come on start talking somebody here's the murderer you're looking for there he is and there's the car why didn't you tell me that when I was here before because I thought there might be a reward for them and I wanted to collect it myself she didn't because she was gonna let him get away who are you my daughter Claire Monroe all right now who are you Danny Pearson do you have to use that light keep him covered Dave what are you doing here stopped here for the night they rent rooms to tourists I don't recommend where do you live Cincinnati what do you do for a living newspaper reporter I was on my way here to cover the car to break here's my press card let's see Daniel J Pearson Cincinnati Gazette how are you all right take it back where'd you get this car I borrowed it from another reporter in Cincinnati okay I told you he was the man you're looking for don't let him fool you with a good story he's not fooling us lady he's not the man we're looking for the guy we want is at least 45 years old this fellow isn't even 30 yet oh I guess I made a mistake all around it's a man Sheriff you're looking for a murderer I'm always looking for a murderer all right then go ahead Claire tell Danny go ahead has to come out sooner or later come on young lady if there's anything to tell let's have it well well that woman my foster mother murdered my father what are you crazy no no last night I heard a shot and then this morning when I came down she said he'd gone away out west he wouldn't do that he would but he did I found the note he left on the old typewriter in the hall when I came down this morning hmm did you hear the shot too I I don't know I thought I dreamed she heard it all right she killed him Danny and I just found the body buried up in the woods what oh no no all right keep her covered out wait a minute officer if this woman had murdered her husband why did she take the chance of giving me a room tonight knowing that I might learn something why wouldn't she have run away or killed the girl too to cover up but Danny on the other hand Claire here never once mentioned going to the police about the murder she was willing to run away with me a few minutes ago even though she thought I was a murderer and she knew exactly where the body was buried she could have written the note to her mother Danny Danny you mean you think I yes I do officer this is the woman you want she murdered her foster father the whistler will return in just a moment with the strange ending of tonight's tale meantime because yesterday marked the opening of a six weeks drive to check auto breaks sponsored by the international association of chiefs of police signal oil company believes you'll want full information on just what this drive means to you with today's cars averaging seven years old faulty breaks are threatening to increase america's already large number of traffic accidents which kill over 20 000 men women and children per year injure another 800 000 and cost a billion and a quarter dollars what's more when a car is damaged or wrecked in an accident today parts are often not available to repair it and there are no new cars to replace it so it means an even further strain on the transportation america must have to see us through the war that's why traffic officers in every state plan to check every car involved in a moving traffic violation or accident so the time to have the safety of your brakes checked by a competent brake expert is now your cooperation in this brake drive may prevent an accident that could cost you your car or your life and now back to the whistler well danny turned out to be quite a detective didn't he he saw through claire all the time and figured the whole thing out but wait did he well not exactly because you see when they dug up the grave at the edge of the wood they found mr. Monroe's clothes but the body was someone else's in fact when the police identified it it was the body of killer carter yes killer carter escaped convict and when they put out a dragnet and caught up with claire's very much alive foster father they got the whole story danny had figured exactly right once killer carter had stopped at the tourist home late that night neither claire nor her foster mother knew about it when the old man started to pull his usual robbery carter caught him in a struggle carter was shot and killed in self-defense but not knowing who his victim was mr.  Monroe had suspected claire of murdering a man who wasn't dead and was a fugitive from a crime that wasn't a crime in the police book the killing of an escaped convict in self-defense next monday at nine o'clock the whistler will bring you another strange tale the whistler is broadcast for your entertainment by the marketers of signal gasoline and motor oil and fine quality automotive accessories and by your neighborhood signal be left this program directed by george w allen with story by john haze music by wilbur hatch is transmitted to our troops overseas by the arm forces radio service this is marvin miller speaking and suggesting you let every traffic signal remind you you do go farther with signal gasoline yes you do go farther with signal this is cbs the columbia broadcasting system


So let's talk about the China's genocide against Uyghurs. So we'll talk about who are the Uyghurs and why China is committing this genocide of pressing Uyghurs. And then Uyghur life before this genocide and also the life inside the camp and outside the camp in our homeland. And what actions have been taken so far and also what can we do as a community member, as a person. So who are the Uyghurs? Uyghurs are Turkic and Muslim people that are native to Central Asia. We call our homeland East Turkistan. However, China calls it Xinjiang. We reject that name because it means new territory that was invaded. Uyghurs have more than 20,000 years of history, rich history. We had our own independence. We lived independently for years. We had prosperous states. However, once we were invaded and occupied in 1949, Uyghurs gave up their arms, our lands, our properties were taken confiscated. And the population of Han Chinese back then, 1950s, or 6%, and it increased more than 50 now with the migration. Why China is committing this genocide and crimes against humanity to Uyghurs? The first reason is the Chinese Communist Party, they cannot tolerate diversity. They want, especially once the Xi Jinping became a president and general secretary. He wants one homogenous Han Chinese population in China. We were independent in the past, lived freely, and starting 1990s when Soviet Union separated. That's when China got a little more scared and wanted to get firm grip of this land because they know they were never owned that land. It was not their land. It was occupied. So CCP wanted to control the region. Also, our land is such a geopolitical and economic important for Chinese ambitions. So basically it connects China to Eurasia for their trades, for their economic ambitions. So our geopolitical land is very important for them. They had to have a strong control. East Turkestan is very rich with minerals, resources, oil and all those, and that China doesn't want to give up. Also for China's big population, it's the size of Alaska, if you think about it. And they would like to resolve those population problems as well by migrating Chinese Han Chinese to our region. As you see in the map, it's very important where our homeland stays and that's why China wanted to have a strong firm grip control over this land. Oppression before the genocide was still there. Once we were occupied, slowly assimilation were taking place. So forced abortion, restriction on Uyghur language in our school, restriction on Uyghur names, and the Muslim names were banned. The Turkic names were banned. For example, like Mohammed or Fatma, they're banned. We cannot name our children with those Islamic names. Also restrictions on practice of religion, any practices like fasting or praying, also not allowed for the Uyghurs. And also separation from the Turkic and Muslim root. So Xi Jinping himself rewrote basically the history and trying to disconnect us from our root, from our Turkic root, from our Islamic religion. And the first relocation of Uyghurs, especially the girls to inner China, that was also going on before the camp started. Before I talk about the camp, let me give you a little background information about how this has started starting 2016. We got this connected from our loved ones. So there was no internet, like communication, no phone calls. They were answering us because they were getting punished basically for communicating someone overseas. After the disconnection, we didn't know what was going on.  At the beginning China was denying, but once the Canadian researchers showed the satellite image of those camps, then China said, oh, those are vocational training camps, those are schools. We are educating Uyghurs and teaching them Chinese and things like that. And we were worried what was going on there. Once there were some camps survivors, like you see today, they were able to escape because their husbands were our Kazakhstan citizen, Pakistan citizen or Egyptian. So they were able to advocate and get them out, basically help them to escape. And then we heard stories, personal testimonies about what is going on inside the camp. So political indoctrination in those camps, their torture, sterilization, their rape, forced labour, organ harvesting, separation of family and children. So kids were separated from their parents. Also, their identity and language and culture and religion were stripped away. Also, they were using Uyghurs in the camp as a testing zone, like a guinea pig, for their medicines or their technological tool. As you see on the photos, on the top one, that is at the airport on the road, on the floor, that says fast lane for organs. So I want to talk about little bit that I said for organ harvesting. On those camps, before those detainees enter, they have full body, biological body scans, X-rays, DNA checks, blood samples. So they're trying to use very expensive machines, tools to get those data, and they have this one big database. And then they're ready to match your DNA if you need a kidney, if you need a heart. In 48 hours to couple days, they can tell you we have someone that matches. And those are the Uyghurs in the camps, live people. Unfortunately, they even advertise halal organs to Arabic or Muslim countries that saying because Uyghurs are Muslim, they mostly don't drink alcohol and they don't eat pork. They look at it like those organs are halal, and they basically market that to the Islamic countries. And that's why in what country you need a fast lane at the airport for organs, that shows the intensity, the level of organ harvesting going on that we don't have exactly evidence to show this person did this because everyone is very afraid to speak up. But that's the level of the scary stories going on in those camps. Very small camps as you see, those wooden table as you see, they eat there, they study there, they sleep there, and that one small room, so many people crowded. And their bathroom is that corner blue bucket. Everything is watched 24-7, lights are on, their cameras everywhere. And they learn Xi Jinping's codes, they learn political indoctrination, CCP's propaganda in those camps. This is a Dapeng Daon Ching camp that in 2015, as you see, it was like a mountain. In 2018, CCP built a big concentration camp there that can hold 70,000 people. This is just the one camp. And we know there are more than 570, I believe, camps in East Turkistan. Life outside the camps. So we talked about what people go through inside the camps. And outside is not big difference actually. It's basically like living in the open air prison. 24-7, their cameras on the street, you're being watched, you're monitored, everything you do is recorded. There's surveillance state, forced sterilization also going on, forced abortion, forced marriage. Unfortunately, because of the one child policy that China had starting 1980s, China had... They were basically doing abortion for the girls to keep their last name longer. And there were so many men compared to the women, their population was in balance. So they need more brides. And that was a solution by the Communist Party. The state run these incentives, these plans to... If you marry Han Chinese, you will get awarded this much of money, this much of help from government. And Uyghur girls were forced to marry the Chinese Communist Party's cadre. And if you don't, then you're being threatened that your parents might be taken to the concentration camp, or if they're in the camp, they might be killed.  You see on the photos, the girl's face, you should be very happy on your wedding, right? She is crying that what she's going through, I can't imagine. So forced labor transfers to China. Also, another big issue is according to Adrian Zen's report, 1.6 million Uyghurs were transferred from inside China, from East Turkestan to inner China. Elimination of identity, language, and culture and religion, also going on outside. Another important thing I left at the end is the homestay policy that China brought. They basically bring from Han Chinese, from the government cadre to your house.  Are you praying? Are you using God's name? Are you saying something against the government? They report everything, document everything and monitor everything and tell the CCP. So that is very unacceptable that you even have to share your bed with them. And imagine some family, the fathers or the men of the family is taken to the concentration camp. Those men had to stay with the remaining part of the family. We talked about forced utilization, again with Adrian Zen's report in Associated Press. The birth rate fell 60% from 2015 to 2018.  This is unbelievable compared to, for example, Uzbeks are very close to us and their population was around 13 million in 1950s and about 33 million now. But according to Chinese sources that Uyghurs were around 12 million and we say more than 3 million are in the camp. Besides that I talk about the children, right? I am a mother of two. When I heard about these concentration camps I was wondering what was happening to the kids. Unfortunately, they are not given to grandparents most of the case. They are also taken to the kids, state-run orphanages, boarding schools, kindergartens and stripped away from their identity, their religion, their culture, their language and basically raised as a subject to CCP subject. It's like robotic machines that who doesn't know who they are. That's just very sad that I'm worried about our future. We talked about forced labor earlier and I wanted to expand it a little bit that China using forced labor not just get cheaper labor, it's also their genocidal policy. When they transferred Uyghurs from East Turkestan to especially Uyghur women to inner China they take those women at the age of giving birth away. So they're away, they don't give birth that way they can control the population and if they have kids they're separated so they cannot pass it through, transfer their language, their culture, their religion to their kids. Also kids were taken. So that's how they are trying to achieve the homogeneous one Han Chinese nation by separating families from each other. Also other related to forced labor, so 80% of the cotton of China comes out of our region because it's such a good quality and fine threads and 20% of the world's cotton so comes out of China and that is linked to Uyghur forced labor. Besides that the polysilicon of the solar panels, electronics, auto parts, agriculture products such as like tomato, all those things use Uyghur forced labor that we need to be careful. US passed the forced labor prevention act and it started to be implemented last year in July so we are a little better compared to other countries. However China is using Canada or UK or other countries, European countries as a dumping ground now and they can't bring those products to US they're still selling them to other countries. That's why we need to contact our countries, our government to let them know about this Uyghur forced labor issue. Sorry I keep going a little in details. So also we talked about our rich culture, our architecture as you see on the photos on the left here that we had beautiful home decorations and houses built based on Uyghur's culture. However they were also destroyed under the name of you know it's too old or not safe and they were building new apartments and Uyghurs that's also part of cultural genocide. So when it comes to Islam, not just Islam actually, any religion, China, CCP looks at it as a disease. It's like a cancer, it's threatening to them because when you have a faith, you're stronger, when you have a faith you have a community, when you have a community you can be against to certain things you can stand up for injustice for example. So they're very scared of that and they were continuing by demolishing the mosques around 60% of the mosques in East Turkestan were demolishing or transformed into hotels and restaurants and bars unfortunately. I wanted to get some of those signs that were on the mosque so we cannot go pray at the mosque but even the people like old people who are allowed or who can go, those are the things on the wall as the regulations or rules. The first one says Adhan and China rewrote basically the Adhan and it says you know come, it's a little small I can see it now but instead of only one word just say come pray the rest they change it to its own agenda. The second one says Tespi so it's basically when you're using Tespi instead of Allah Huaykh Pari Subhan Allah or Alhamdulillah they said you need to say thank for the Communist Party, thank for Shijingpin, you need to say that. Like these rules are on the mosque, imagine now what kind of Islam that they are building in East Turkestan and the last one is as you see the Korans, the praying rocks they were burning those items because having Quran in your house praying outside all those things are banned those are reasons for you to be taken to the concentration camp. Transnational repression is important for the Uyghurs who live outside China. Unfortunately we deal with the survivor's guilt and also the China's long hand. When we want to speak up about the truth China trying to hold our family member as a hostage back home to control our action here.  And this guy on the left, Yusuf Chan was threatened to be spy and when he didn't agree he was shot in Turkey. That's one example.   Lastly, so both Trump administration and Biden administration announced it as a genocide because we have been giving enough evidence, proofs and reports to the world. U.S. passed two bills, Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act and Uyghur Forced Labor Protection Act. Many European countries, nine of them followed the suit of U.S. and they also declared as genocide and crimes against humanity. And most recent report by U.N. also clearly said that it constitutes crimes against humanity. Now the last part, what can we do as a community member? First thing is raise awareness, spread the word, tell your neighbors, tell your friends, tell your, if you're in the church, tell your people there, if you're in the mosque, share with your friends about what's going on. No, you cannot say I didn't know about it. Best thing is to raise awareness and share this knowledge because this is the truth. Also support Uyghur diaspora organization, sign up, go to their events, donate if you can, you know, the financial, they're all undersourced, they don't have enough resources. Contact your congress members to advocate for bills on Uyghurs. Tell your congress members that you support and you want your congress members to support Uyghurs bill. Write U.N. to pass a resolution and last thing is don't buy Made in China product. I'm sorry if I bore you, but those are the truths that we're dealing with every day.


Awesome. Let me know someone if that's not quite large enough and I will make it so. Cool. Welcome everybody to the 11th Jenkins UX SIG online meetup. We got a couple of standard items here and then some new items to go through today. So first agenda review and agree on agenda topics. So anybody have anything they want to add? I see we're just jumping in there and doing that. That's awesome. Feel free to do that as we go through. Can you paste the link into the SIG channel? Sorry, I can't find it. Can you just paste the link to the document in the getter channel? Oh, it's just this document. Sure. Actually, Felix or Everista, would you mind doing that real quick? Sorry, what? Can you paste a link to this document? Yeah. I think I'm signed out. Easier. Yeah. Thank you. Cool. And then we always do this as well, introduce any new participants and kind of discuss their interests. So scan through the list here. Forgive me if I'm saying your name incorrectly, Sumit. Are you there? Hi, I'm here. I'm not saying it correctly.  Awesome. Welcome. Sorry to put you on the spot. Just wanted to say hi and thanks for joining. And I think with that, we can go ahead and jump into the first item on the list and we got a lot to cover today. So I will try to be timely with this as well. So we're going to kick off with a quick design deck here. Take a look at some items that have been improved and worked upon since the last SIG meeting week before last. So the context for those of you seeing this for the first time or really the first time in a while. Each SIG meeting, we have a deck like this that kind of summarizes some of the design items. And we also have a dedicated resources Google document that lists everything that we share in every meeting. So everything's kind of collated and you can reference back to this, but to get some more context for the overall project, there's some slides in here that are here for every deck if you want to check those out. And then we can jump into some, there were three items on today's list typography considerations, color palette improvements, and some sidebar design improvements. So first let's look at typography. We had as of, I think it was probably February in this SIG, we shared the first iteration of a sort of type scale, sort of trying to define consistent or standardized typographic hierarchy for the Jenkins interface, which we have since simplified and we've, of course, merged some really simple but really effective and impactful improvements to typography in Jenkins as well, which is great. So all this topic is for today's call is just to say that work kind of continues, right, it's not, it's not just a checkbox and then done and we don't think about typography. It's one of those elements that that impacts just about everything else in the experience. So in the background, or I suppose not in the background but over here in between meetings, things are things are happening here as well so I spent a little time thinking about typography in Jenkins, trying to come up with a more effective way of categorizing typography and typographic styles. And of course we had previously decided to lean upon system default fobs for rendering type in Jenkins interfaces. And as a result, one of the tasks I wanted to accomplish over here in my design software was set up all of the type styles that we have going in the three most common system default fonts, which are San Francisco, Segui and Ubuntu. And in that way whenever a new component is being designed, I can easily swap between those three fonts. And get a better understanding of what that component or that element looks like for users of different, different operating systems. So that's not something really I can, I can show very quickly without a more prepared demo. But it's just to kind of highlight that that's something we're being mindful of. This is the type scale in its current iteration, right? This is something that will continue to evolve. But fortunately it is becoming more sophisticated as we solve, as we continue to solve problems. And it's becoming a bit more realistic as time goes on as well. And as I mentioned, you can always go back and look at the stuff after the fact. So I'm going to kind of move quickly because we've got a lot to cover. The second topic also, I'm just broadcasting here, which I apologize, anyone can interrupt me anytime. As a reminder, we have an open conversation format here. The second topic is updated color palettes. Absolutely. You brought to my attention the need for for more detail around around colors in the last meeting, which I really appreciate. We had that first iteration of a color palette, it was okay and it got things started and now it was time to push that further. I don't yet have a color schema for you for data visualization. I know that's something you were kind of wanting and I will be given that to you soon. But first I wanted to improve the format of this. I'm sorry, we're going to say something. Oh, okay, I thought I missed something. And so I wanted to take a step back and improve how we do, how we look at colors and Jenkins and also provide some more detailed resources around colors. So, with that in mind, we've got some color categories here, each category contains multiple swatches. And what this does is it helps us to kind of establish a framework or framework for discussing color and how we think about the different colors relate to one another throughout the interface. Each swatch, this is not a full palette of course is just a few swatches. But each swatch now provides the hex value for reference, right, which is an oversight from the original version, but now that's added in there. And the updated resource also emphasizes visual contrast. So details are provided about the contrast ratio of common color pairings, right. So it's really important when you're referencing these colors to. Somebody says something. No, sorry. No worries, I keep hearing things. Sorry, too much coffee, perhaps. It's really important to think about how these colors relate to one another in the contrast that we have, especially when it comes to text but also just general UI elements against their backgrounds. One for each color here is provided the contrast ratio details for for common color scenarios, right. So, for example, we have Jenkins blue here. If this is used as a background and the foreground is text white, then this contrast ratio is too low. This fails by most measures. The temptation and the inclination usually would be to put white text on this blue. So that's why that particular pairing is is laid out here to provide that detail. And the goal is to show those common color pairings what people would would typically default to logically and myself included and and provide a little more context for whether or not that works inside of these resources. The contrast ratio as a complete in expert. So would you then use white to black text over that deep over that Jenkins blue color. I'm not sure. So great question. So, in this case, when we see that the contrast ratio is, and this resource I should point out needs a little more work right like this says that this fails, but it doesn't help you figure out what to do instead. The answer to that question though is that this this blue really shouldn't be used as a backdrop to for text. Thank you. Okay, thanks. So, so that's the hint to me, if it's Jenkins blue behind it as a as a person placing text over that it's going to be very very difficult for to be visible to the user no matter what color of text I use. Correct. Yeah. Thank you. And like I said, you know the resource. I'm still working on it here. And basically, I want to make it real easy and I'll link some other tools for people to go and test out other combinations, you know, like, like if you were wondering what if black would work. So, work in progress but hopefully we end up with some really thorough useful stuff here. And what we're seeing on screen now is an example of one of those categories, right so this is not every every color that we'll see in Jenkins. By any means, but what we do have here. And as I mentioned earlier, earlier five color categories. And this is the general UI elements color category. We're showing the visual contrast details for common pairings what people would would usually be inclined to try out together. And I'll also add on here sort of a link to, to other tooling that helps you test other combinations. And they'll be one of these sheets for every color category. So anyone have any thoughts or feedback on that this needs some finessing, in my opinion, frankly, but anyone got anything there to share or discuss. Okay, cool. Well, I'll keep you all updated. The final form you know this or the more finesse form so it's a little easier to understand I think I'll share in the next thing. And the next thing for this slide deck and then Felix will jump into yours. Your demo there will be just that we're thinking about design improvements for the sidebar. And the place to start for that is to kind of try and define the anatomy of that side panel. Right now it's for power users and people who are very familiar with Jenkins it's really clear how it works, but it's not always clear to new users. It can be a little bit amorphous what what elements are which and how they, how they interact and relate to one another. I think there's a comment here. Let me just check that. Thanks for that. Let me see here. So we're trying to think about. We're trying to define a structure right because it already exists that panel has has logic to it. It's just not always very intuitive. So this is by no means done. This is something we're thinking about and working on. And this is where that logic stands right now in an ideal world, you know some of this is not technically feasible at all yet. Having these groupings I would like to say something I would like to to call attention to them to the distinction there. Can you zoom in the in the sidebar please in the tasks. So we are aware of many people is aware that there are problems in the sidebar with mixing of two different things. Families of items which are navigation links and actions. For example, it's confusing to have go to these configure page next to the build button or next to the build now button. So, yeah, so we've Joe has the science and concept for separate how do we can separate tasks that navigation here. I am afraid we cannot implement it right now because we don't. There's just not infrastructure on the Jenkins I mean on jelly or whatever to do this but this is something that we propose and if something if somebody comes up with a way of how we can start walking the way towards this. Please speak up. Or we work on the initiative. Yeah, I would be happy to improve this panel, because this is an idealistic state. And in some cases, for example, for built view becomes really complicated because many actions tend to additional controls. I'm not even speaking about get plug in which may add something quite five or 10 actions. Unfortunately, yeah, there is an issue with that. So, I would be happy to regroup it to remove it and maybe even hide the panel by default or maybe whatever slider so that it doesn't consume too much space when it's not needed. Yeah, for me, the best thing to be to allow people calling the task or setting up the panel calling or invoking the task to say this is an action or this is a navigation. So, I think that would be a start for me to, but I don't I don't know, maybe we can maybe we can discuss this offline, but I really will have the vision where we could improve. This is something we can improve. And I mostly, most everybody agrees with it. Yeah, we could. Awesome. We just categorization for the configuration screen. So, if you go forward and introduce it somewhere else including the panel. Plus one. Great. Sweet. I'm going to stop sharing here and head over to Felix. Okay, yeah. Let me. So what I'm going to do is show you show everybody a bit of what my current implementation of the sideways based on these changes. And we will be looking for feedback. Okay. Let me know if everybody can see my screen. Yeah. Okay, great. So, I went ahead and implemented Joe's designs. And you'll notice that this sidebar takes a bit more space. We have added a bit more vertical spacing between items. They are now each hyperlink is now 40 pixels tall. We think this is a reasonable touch area for people to interact with, because the previous previous one felt too cramped.  So, problem, it may push these panels a bit in some screens. That's something that we appreciate feedback on this, but we asked to keep on open mind on this one. So, you'll see this is how it looks in a screen with a bit more items, with a few more items, for example, on this job. Yeah. We also have improved the active status for the current page. We think it's a bit more clear now, more visible instead of just bold text. We also look into the, into how to render nested items and nested elements inside of this. So, especially, for example, the credentials one, the credentials plugin provides some sidebar entries with different levels of nesting. Instead of marking all ancestors as current, I think we, this is more, this is lighter. So, we, I will probably be creating this PR tomorrow morning. So, I, we ask everybody to please give it a try. Yeah. And we await all feedback. This is one of those, oh, sorry, gone. Sorry, no, please go ahead. I was going to say this is one of those things that, you know, on paper can seem kind of, it can almost seem like not not a big deal, but really over the long term when you're interacting with this panel as much as a person does. This can make a huge difference in just general usability and having proper interactive states reflected here. So, pretty excited about this one, but definitely open, you know, open to feedback and want to hear which all thing for sure. Definitely. Also, and regarding the implementation of this, this is a bit interesting. I think this can be a bit interesting. We, what I did was, first of all, if you, if you look at the CI.jackings.io example, you'll see that this, both in each image, these are two different hyperlinks. It doesn't really make much sense. So what I did is I reworked the task.jelly template to have a single hyperlink to wrap everything. So I think it's a bit more usable and now when the user tabs through this, it's a bit more accessible and a bit more intuitive. So, I don't think this will break any plugin, any plugin, I will try to identify, do a bit more deep search of plugins that has a custom action.jelly. So if anyone is aware of any plugin that does weird things with site valentries, please let me know as soon as possible. I appreciate it. Also another call for help. If anybody, I know that there are plugins, that there are places where the site valentries have a arrow, a drop down arrow, like this one. So if anybody knows of... Just in case you are not sharing the screen, it was a bit difficult with the CI.jackings, but now it's clear. You are still sharing the localhost. Okay, I don't know why I tapped that. Okay, so now you can see my screen. The localhost one only. I think you share only a tab or things like that. Oh well, let me try to share again. Okay, so what I wanted to say is that both the images and the levels are within the same hyperlink, unlike before. So I needed to change the task.jelly template for that. So if anybody is aware of any plugin that does weird things with site valentries, please let me know. I've been searching. I didn't find any relevant plugins that did that, but you never know. And also I know, I'm aware that I think some plugins have a drop down arrow, like this, a contextual menu on the site valentries. So I'm looking for site valentries without a contextual menu. If somebody knows of a specific one to test, please let me know. So, yeah. So that's it. Any feedback? Any comments on this? Would it make sense to forbid some things like a drop downs or I think even the hierarchy I never seen it before. Does it really make sense to have a hierarchy in this list on the left side? For me, at least it, I find it quite helpful to have credentials have hierarchy there. Because it at least it helped me understand there is a nesting of this. So the example he shows here was helpful to me. However, I'm open to also opening the credentials panel directly and using it. Personally, I have never understood where credentials has to be on this page. Pretty much the same for local resources because all of it can be accessible from the managed page. In some cases, there was a workaround because the managed page requires administrative access to you. But I guess we partially resolved it with system read permission. And maybe we could have another page for such beats so that we don't have to display them at all here on the landing. But that will not solve the problem for credential because credential is not linked with system read. It just credential manage that is a completely separate permission. So it will require additional magic about that. But from user experience standpoint, if you can remove it from this panel entirely, I think it would be better because these items are not accessed often. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I have not accessed them from these pages. No, no, I feel the same, at least from my personal experience that hierarchy seems weird that year. Just concerning the one link instead of two, it's something that is really nice. So if you can manage to have that implemented, it could be really good, especially in terms of accessibility. Yeah, that's something I want to touch right up to this, but that was one of the goals. And with the switch, does the alt text still survive so that those with visual impairments will be able to see the alt text that helps them? It doesn't switch to not showing alt text, I assume. So, the thing is, if you have the hyperlink and the label, if you have the image and the label inside the same hyperlink, you can just have no alt text for the image because the hyperlink text should be meaningful enough. Before it was a hack because it was needed because the hyperlink, sorry, the image was a hyperlink that had no text. So you could hover over it and say, okay, what does this icon do? But now they are part of the same entity. So a screen reader, whatever tool, just would go over and read the content of the text. For example, they would go over here and read manage Jenkins and ignore the icon. Excellent, so an improvement in accessibility. Thank you. Yeah. Just a thought about the CI Jenkins.io, if you can just open a tab to come back there. As you have seen, perhaps there is a lot, a lot number of executor. You can scroll down a lot to see all the things. With an extended height for the sidebar, do you think it could be a problem with that? Especially if we think about the future and your tendency to put more space around the things for the design. Such page could be even longer. What do you think? So it's a balancing act, right? It's a, because it is a fundamentally good thing to have slightly, maybe not, maybe not even as much as we have reflected there. But it is a good thing to have a more spaced out menu. However, I totally get your point. The design of these executors and how this is reflected is also going to be reconsidered. So we might be able to, for lack of a better expression, save some height, some vertical height in those as well. It's hard to say right now, but at the end of the day, if someone has a really complex configuration with a very tall sidebar, there's sort of a feeling out there that people don't like to scroll or that that breaks the experience. From what I understand, you know, that's not necessarily true. So it's something I'm being mindful of for sure. But I think it's also somewhat unavoidable in this project. Yeah. I also think it could be argued that is that the correct place, you know, to have the executors, where to place the executors list. So for example, can you, can we be creative? Can we maybe have a right panel where we share that it's collapsible, where we can show the old this item? So can we keep the left panel your reference navigation? So I think that that opens that can open and can lead to a bigger discussions of whether the panels should actually exist and continue to exist in the same shape that they do right now. It's a good question, because it's not on the matter of user experience is also a matter of performance, because on big instances that this panel creates a pretty high load on the server. It was even worse when this panel was synchronous when we had queue logs, etc. Now we have a Qcash and some eventual consistence on this panel, but still it produces quite a lot if you have hundreds of users connecting to the main page. Yeah, I really like the idea of the right side were collapsible with the executors I was thinking of a very similar idea to what you just said, Felix. I think that could be something to think about. Yeah, I think, but I think that's, I think that's, I think we should kick down the future, because for example I also been playing around with the idea of making. So, everybody's favorite panel, which is the trends that we all know what happens when, when this gets too wide, right. I've been playing around with the idea of making this collapsible to the to the side. So maybe we should be thinking about that. But I think that I think Wadek, I think you're, you're right, we are, we are on the track to add vertical spacing to many places. But for example, here, maybe here in the real history, that argument has more impact, because this is something you can see at the glance, but for example here on as soon as you have something on the build queue, you just will not see anything on the executors this right. So, as you said, I think it's a balancing act. I don't think we have a good solution right now other than because we need to see to what extent we should limit ourselves, improving readability, improving capacity to interact with this panel and improve it with balancing with the fact that we have this piece of legacy UI with it. Just a thought in addition, if you want to break no workflow of people to have like Gmail a condensed mode, it could be also useful. So that you remove the vertical space for people who really want to have very dense information and for the rest of the people to have the more beautiful version. What do you think? It's an interesting idea. It's out of scope for right now, but long term, I think it's an interesting idea, especially since there are so many pieces of the UI in general that look like this. The same kind of goes for the panel's topics and these ideas. I love them as ideas, but I don't think we'll be able to get to them very soon. But it's interesting. Yeah. I'm looking at that side panel and just like none of that really needs to be there. Who clicks on the people link, who clicks on my views, who clicks on new view and credentials, local resources. Like how often are they actually used in the. I have talked with some friends that are actually power Jenkins users and related to cloud is or to the biggest community they just sees admins. And they say for them the biggest problem with Jenkins was the, what the hell effect about what I especially for this site navigation with when we should I go here when should I go to the slash manage page. So, but I think that's a far bigger reach than what we can do here in this. improvement. Yeah, you know, it's very true. It's also true that we could be mindful of those things for the long term as we're making these style improvements to so this is still very valuable feedback so I appreciate it. It's a small step at a time, because if you compare current way out with one we had one year ago, you can already see a lot of great improvements. Yeah, thank you. Okay, I think it's, we have 25 minutes left if there are no further comments maybe we can go ahead and move to the next point. Okay. Next, I'm going to next topic is, okay, for some reason, introducing accessibility epic. Okay, let me share again this time my visual studio call the screen. So, we cloud is we have done some we have been doing some accessibility research and found some accessibility well Jenkins as a whole has severe accessibility issues. Most of them are very, very tough to solve. For example, it's really difficult to make accessible widgets such as drop downs and everything because they depend on your UI code. So, that said, we identified several issues that can be easy, even most of them new friendly. And so I will be creating accessibility epic with these issues. And we will leave them there. And eventually, if we see no open circle contributors, sorry, some community contributors to pick them up. And implemented maybe we will be we are cloud is we will start solving some a few of them but we think are great candidates for no we friendly tasks. So, for example, some of the of these are indicate the language of the page in the HTML document. And it will fix the skip navigation skip to content navigation. This should be product straightforward. This one does not apply anymore with the navigation changes and labels some improvement to the login screen and form. We can use the new buttons on the login buttons. Okay, so provide a warning before logout. I think this should be somewhat easier tasks. So I just wanted to introduce them and anybody see accessibility problem actually accessibility problem, especially if we if it can be categorized by the web accessibility standard standards with severity and source of problem. So, yeah, I think that would be the place for this. Any comment on this. It would be nice improvement in general. Also, we had a number of contributors who were bringing up accessibility stories before. So, for example, we were discussing the you are more for color blind people, obviously it's not a new befriended task. But, yeah, these tasks as far as definitely make sense. So, my main question is how far we would like to go in general. So not this new befriended tasks, but what would be the end goal for us. So, and goals should be maybe making Jenkins legal to use in countries and places where you have, for example, in a government or in a big company should be able to use Jenkins without fear that somebody some employee would sue them for because the tool they are mandated to use is not accessible. So I think that's the extent we should avoid and I mean, this is a pragmatic way. And the target should be to serve better most users, but the more pragmatic and cynical is everybody should be she feel she'll feel safe to use Jenkins as a tool in these cases. Yeah. Now it's perfectly fine certification so it's important, especially for vendors, but for many users, it's, it may be also decision criteria. So we say that we comply with some standards and we have proof of that it would definitely help. Why I'm asking is mostly about because of the Jenkins roadmap, because accessibility looks to be a good item to put there in general. But if you want to put that we definitely need to somehow document this bigger story. Maybe it's an additional project for your xc for the future for now I don't know. But yeah, would be interested to put something like that on the Jenkins roadmap. Do we have identified a particular tool or test that we want to pass in order to detect those accessibility issues. I don't know. I don't know right now. Well, I have no idea how to handle accessibility. I mean, there are, there are lots of of browser extensions that you can install and we'll do an accessible first level accessibility audit of the page. But if you put them in Jenkins, they will just explode. I mean, and Jenkins has lots of problems. It's mostly about the best thing we can do as developers is inform us ourselves on what the pro common accessibility issues are, because it's more and I'm trying to fix them a bit baby because it I don't think it's possible or reasonable to say, and we are going to make Jenkins double a accessible in one year. I don't think that's feasible, especially considering that you need to spend so much on the plugins and plugins can be inaccessible themselves. And they would be maybe bring maybe the excessive the level of specific. But what can we do. We can create accessible widgets, accessible search bar and search works we can create accessible dropdowns. We can improve the forms the forms are a big one and thankfully with the new forms PR we are on our way to have more accessible forms. So, those are all places where we can help. I'm just keeping an eye on the clock here I don't want us to miss on on some other ones so we might need to move on to the next. Jenkins you you have some like hackathon proposal mark. I have to have a view do you want to share I have to hackathon. Yeah, I can speak about that. So if you don't mind I will just share my screen. Okay. Yeah. So we haven't really discussed it yet. The public and actually this is just a quick heads up. We were discussing having kind of online hackathon for a couple of months. We discussed it in Brussels at the Jenkins contributor summit. We had a number of hackathons before and they were quite successful. So for example, here we have Java 10 hackathon into Southern Dayton was one week online hackathon. Then we had October first last October first again was pretty good in terms of contributions we accumulated. We had more than 100 contributors to the Jenkins project coming through October first. And we had an interest to run something and after discussions we thought that it might be good to actually focus on user experience. Why because the Jenkins user experience is one of the biggest issues. And as Felix talked before there is a lot of various new befriending tickets we could create. So the idea you'd like to propose. Again, I will shout to the developer Malin please soon is having online hackathon for that late May. The reason why this time frame is because it's end of JSOC community bonding so that we don't ever flow up with this JSOC coding time frame and also students can also participate in the community if they're interested. But the idea would be to focus on user experience it includes some stories like Jenkins look and feel updates. So basically we took stories which are already on the roadmap which we discussed at the previous meetings. Okay, so here you can see there are stories like you are you look and feel user interface reward we didn't touch it of course here. And user experience is also on the list. I also tentatively added accessibility topic just before this meeting when I've seen the agenda because if you have really friendly tickets why not. Also, we have a number of documentation things we would like to improve so solution pages tutorials is what we were discussing that the documentation seek over past months because documentation could be improved. The documentation is also a significant factor for user experience overall. We could also put a dog's migration so it's basically migration from weekend the story, which is still there. And yeah item which is currently in works the Jenkins the way user story site that is a blog post staged by Alistar Tom. And we were thinking that just to get the stories and to run a one week event where we invite everybody to contribute. And as a result, we sent some Schwab and then federal to organize some online events like meetups for example developer meetups for Web UI development. Also some grant opening like we did for October first for example. One week hackathon. So we will meet the reviewers will meet all social media stuff. I think that advocacy and advocacy would be pretty interested to contribute there. Yes, that's what we want to organize. It's all in draft this document basically just started tomorrow we just put some brain dump. But it will be sent to the community soon. So that just would be to get your feedback whether you think it's important enough whether you would be interested to participate and provide your feedback. I think it's a super interesting idea. I think that this is, I have not been involved with a hackathon for Jenkins in the past. I know that they are a really great way of building community of reminding people why they love this project and, and so I'm excited about this, I would love to also talk more with you. After this, after this call just since we're running out of time well like about some of the topics you have in mind but, but this is very cool. From my side thanks very much for considering docs here as part of user experience I think that's intensely valuable and we could get a whole bunch of newbie friendly tasks that would go into that bucket. Excellent. So, yeah, hope to share this document by the end of the week. So, again, it's just a preview. Getting you a samples back into Jenkins core and have actual samples or buttons for example on icons. It would be amazing. Why not. So yeah, of course, it's online hackathon. Yeah. So everybody is welcome to participate. If you are concerned about timing Java 10 plus hackathon basically it was organized with two weeks at once. We have three weeks. So, yeah, I think it's technically possible. We will dedicate some time. We also discussed sponsorship. So we want to tie to Jenkins is the way campaign. Hence, we will get Jenkins in the week t-shirts for contributors. We are probably will be able to facilitate much work. These t-shirts are really nice by the way. So, yeah, more details soon. But yeah, thanks for letting me speak briefly about that. Awesome. Thanks for sharing for raising the issue. So, next item this piece. Okay, I'll share again. Screen. Community contributions. So Balek wants to raise the discussion of getting rid of jQuery prototype UI. Yeah, it just, it was a topic we started discussing in our internal Slack with Felix. So we got multiple security issue with this library because they are outdated. Most of them are not something that is exploitable in Jenkins, but we still get a lot of reports. Yeah, your application is vulnerable and things like that, even if it's not true. And the fact that we are using very, very old library seems to be weird, especially the Yahoo stuff because it's completely out of support. And the version we are using is not even the last version of the library or things like that. So it just a reminder there. If you have some ideas about how to remove completely them during the CSS rework or during the next phase or during the next next phase, it's just a very good thing. So share your ideas, share everything you can have with that. It could be just useful. Yeah, I want to, I will repeat here what I said, I want to be brief, what I said on the UX GitHub. I think jQuery is removable. I think if we want to remove prototype, not just from Jenkins, from the whole ecosystem, it will take one and a half to two years. And we at the deprecation notice we should give, because if we want to remove it, it's used all over the place. It's so connected to everything and it's really difficult to remove. So that said, if we are willing to just say we have two years until we remove this, it's maybe it's enough time for plugging the offers to consider it. Other than that, it's going to stay there forever. Yahoo UI does not concern me as much because Yahoo UI does not modify the JavaScript runtime, which prototype does. And just for the fun, we got a report recently from a customer about the Yahoo UI because of some inner HTML tag used inside that library. Burp, the software used for the different pen tests and things like that you can do on the web application, said it was a dumb XSS due to that. So it was confirmed that it was not a vulnerability, but it's still something that is outdated and potentially annoying for us. So for me, it's more a security concern. And if we can say in two years, we get rid of them, it's already a very good thing compared to the current situation. Yeah, I mean, that's not my goal. So I just want to make everyone aware of the severity of that. So that is going to take one year to remove or more and then count it another year for everybody, every planning to be up to date. I think those are the stakes. JQuery can be removed safely. Yahoo UI can protect not. It could be looked at on a component by component basis, at least in core and reduce the reliance on it. Yeah, I mean, definitely. Yeah, I've had the misfortune of touching it recently and it took me quite a while to get my head around it. Yeah, I agree with you there. And I would like to move to the next item if possible. So do we want to discuss any further? No, no, it's just a highlighter. If you have some ideas, if you're creating a new script and you are not using prototype, it's already a good thing. I'm just going vanilla JavaScript. Yeah. And no prototype, no jQuery, anything else. Yes, but vanilla JavaScript. And that's what I suggest. Okay, next item is not a priority. There are just two issues I detected with on current Jenkins, maybe some of the introduced with the typography, some introduced with the buttons change. So basically here these buttons in this pop up at least. Clicking help us look at this page. They don't have the right styles. I'm just working on a fix for that for this next print. I don't know if this is up. It doesn't hurt the case for the buttons to be LTS. But I mean, I have the fix located. And the other one is a fun. What plugin is that Felix I've never known how to get that link. It's the translation assistance plugin. Right now we have some issues with this plugin, because it has infrastructure. Which is supposed to receive the localization suggestions. So the button I contribute my translations to the Jenkins project basically doesn't work right now. But you can still do it for local editing. I have long standing action I can in my backlog, even not in the backlog in the future to release new version which improves the situation. But regarding these buttons, I wouldn't be concerned at all right now.  Yeah, you want to do that. No, I saw it only I found another instance of this issue in only one plugin and I think it was. Here, I don't know, or in advance in one of these plugins. You have a skew of plugins. Never seen any of these. Yeah, I did lots of, I did some rather deep dive into this. But yeah, I think they are moving ahead. Boxes for alert on broadcast interaction. I think that's a PR by Roman. Yeah, that was just a quick note that Daniel realized that there was an issue with this one when the alert appeared and you were scrolling. You will not be able to click the breadcrumbs because the thief actually was there was visible and was displaying. So to Felix point, I first was trying to change to displaying on when the alert was gone, but that wouldn't work with the animation. So I just did a visibility change to make it disappear. Now the breadcrumbs should be clickable again. So if you just click in the files changed, it's a very easy fix. So that's, that's there. I mean, it's getting, it's getting merged tomorrow anyway. So, right. Yeah, so that was a quick update on that. Okay, thank you, Roman. And Mark, Mark, can you please comment on this item. Just a reminder to everyone we're at a precious time when the next long term support release is being selected. The hyperlink there takes you to the mailing list where that's being discussed. And Tim Jacob just barely shared his insights Daniel as well. Don't be shy about sharing your, your insights so that the community is aware of what you're thinking in terms of evolution. So, yeah, I wanted to ask about this because I, I don't, who's supposed to answer to this thread. I mean, people with right permissions to maintainers or everybody in the community is welcome to contribute. Right. Anyone and insights are valued here in terms of knowing where we are at in the evolution. I love but he's observation and I even more value Daniels in terms of, hey, to 235 looks very promising. It's okay in this process to choose and not yet delivered release because we've, we've changed the LTS process, specifically to allow that. I'm not specifically so why we discussed for this version because LTS decision date is next week. So we have one week to make a decision. And hence we can discuss unreleased version because it will be still release by the decision date. For me, for me, it's great, because it leaves us. I'd like to beat the buttons to be featured. And because it's in the more you I changes, especially the buttons that they are rather dramatic change. So that's my vote. And we, we still have time for all the fixes we want, because in two weeks is more than enough time I believe I don't want to jinx anything. So, but yeah. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Mark for the clarification I will I will also comment. So we have three days to stretch the definition of merging something crazy right. Please, please don't do the merge something crazy thing right that would be yeah. So no deeps, right. No, it's not going to get merged. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate that sacrifice there. Unless you want to do around to burn the release. Okay. And when the, when the meeting I would like to call attention to the, to the PR of migrating forums from deeps, sorry, from tables to deeps. It's a big one. So, and it's a really, really big one. I'm really excited for that one. It's going to break stuff. Definitely. So we want so we are looking to have it merge as soon as early in the LTS cycle as possible. So I will know anybody to go ahead and try it out. I would phrase it as early in the next LTS cycle as possible, not the current LTS cycle that that would be that would be a burn the release just the way Tim said it. And yes, but next LTS cycle is in one week. No, but yeah, I mean, not, not next week, but we wanted to do it rather soon, as soon as it's reasonable. Okay. So any testing that anyone here or else we want to do would be great. Myself Felix and Joshua Gordon and Daniel have all done a fair bit of work on this. And it's going to get smoothed on a lot in the last few weeks. Yeah, I'll try to focus on smaller changes to get them into the weekly, especially system rent and other things. Yeah, I'm still in the end of quarter state. But yeah, I hope that I will be able to do it sometime tomorrow and on the weekend. That will be great. Okay, so is it, I think we are to you. It's been one hour. I think we should call it a day. Thank you everybody. This will be a rather productive meeting. And see you in two weeks. Who had record on this one. Sorry, who was recording this one. It's recording automatically Jeremy will dream it. Perfect. All right. Thanks everyone.


Hi everyone, Joe for jazzy's case rakes calm quick random number block randomizer for the following teams for pick your team 12 The break itself will be in a separate video There's the information on the number block there if you're new to this big. Thanks to these folks There's that there's this let's roll it and randomize it six times one and a five and Six after six times mark down to Derek One and a five six times for the numbers Six times eight down to nine Right, so six Okay, mark with eight AJ with one Johnny with three Derek with five Chris with six Randall with two Erin with four last bottom mojo Rodney with zero you'll get any and all redemptions for those teams right there It'll be the blockchain cards Chris Erickson with seven and Derek Melanson with nine. Let's sort by Number right there and coming up next will be the break itself. Jaspy's case breaks.com. Bye