The next talk will be Vadim. Vadim is an engineer at Red Hat and one of the, on the day he is working on OpenShift and OQD and the open source version of OpenShift. And in the night he works on other challenging projects and will show you today the different approaches of agent-based Kubernetes installations. Have fun. Okay. I hope you can see the screen and you can hear me as well. Yes. So today we'll speak about different ways of installing Kubernetes and introducing one of the new way, which is called agent-based method. A few words about me. My name is Vadim Nikovsky. I'm a Principal Software Engineer from Belarus living in Czech Republic. I work for Red Hat in OpenShift department and I job is basically to overlook the whole cluster lifecycle, helping customers to install clusters of various configuration, stand them, upgrade them and manage all of them at scale. Let's look into the most challenging and common problems when you're installing a cluster and proceeding with the basic things. First is our customers usually need to know if the installation method we provide is flexible enough to run on their infrastructure. So we need a very thorough description of the installation process and the installation method has to be flexible enough. Another common problem is collecting debug information if the installation fails. Another quite common problem is that usually people don't just install one cluster, they install multiple of them. So the method has to be very resilient. That means you have to limit a set of user inputs so that the method will be reusable over and over again. We want to make installation as boring as possible so that you could hand off the installation to developers or less technical users and in general, offer it as a service or inside the company or for the general public. GitOps is a buzzword people use a lot and it's very helpful in a way that it helps tracking of COVID what change and allows us to review things before they get applied, which is incredibly valuable that your branch of things is a cluster. That allows us to keep history of cluster changes and the whole team is managing the cluster instead of one defined person. So here we need a dilemma when we are picking which installer should we be using for this. There are multiple possible ways. The most common one is probably the bottom but there are multiple ones like Gov's and keep straight into the mansion and all of those install was a balance in between to extreme. One extreme is a very generic installer for instance Cubatum which only manages the parts which are essential for Kubernetes. They are not involved in preparation of the host they're not involved in network settings and so on. That means you have to come up with a way which installs the operating system and networks and so on and that might influence the installation process and also needs to be accounted for. The other extreme is a very specific installer which targets say a specific cloud or based on Terraform and depends on what kind of providers would be used. That comes with a price that it may become harder to customize rather complicated to update for the new methods and so on. This method is very complicated to be implemented for bare metal install systems. These problems have led us to research on a new method of installation and with a specific focus on bare metal and things to find that little ground to interest things focusing on the infrastructures which is provided by user unlike what we get from the cloud and the great API. This method should have the following requirements should satisfy the requirements. First of all, it has to be boring. It has to hide complexity. It has to do a lot of things for the user so that they could focus on deploying their workloads into the cluster and not bother with silly things. It also has to be quite customizable so that it could fit on existing infrastructure or has to follow some specific requirements for the network for instance. And this method also has to have a great feedback when it comes to failures as to collect sufficient debug information automatically. This leads us to the idea of assistant installer, a tool which assists you during installation and identifies if the cluster settings are incorrect and if nodes are satisfying the necessary requirements and if the installation itself is going to be. First, the idea came from reversing what basically could happen. Instead of provisioning the machine with real grading system and writing things in this and starting with installation we first should collect all the information we know about our hosts. In order to do that, we need to boot every single machine with a specific live ISO and have a special agent which patches collects the necessary information and stores it in the centralized database. That database definitely should have an API and so that we could build a pretty UI on top of it. Here we can see a screenshot from our service which shows what kind of node is about to be joined in the cluster. What's its node capacity, what's its CPU is used, how many disks and what are their types there and what are the network interface. It's already helps us to solve several problems like if your node is unable to run the agent at all it won't be able to run the cubelets. So we filter out nodes which will not be able to join the cluster at all. We also have a full overview of all the available hosts we have so we can play it on a sign different roles. And we also establish a communication channel between our service and the machine without any kind of SSH and more complicated things. This channel is incredibly important because it's also bi-directional. That means the service can send integration certificates and so on on the host and ask it to run some commands on the host and the host itself can return error messages or send logs back to the services if the operation fails or just report on the successful steps. Since we already have a hosted service we can build a pretty UI on top of it. In order to do that, we need a specific API that means we also make it customizable so that users can interact with the API just directly by passing the UI service. UI have a reason quite important because it makes user experience easy to newcomers and people just spent less time typing the very same commands if they are more used to the wizard style UIs. One of the distinctive features of this installation method is that we can validate configurations before the installation is started. We can highlight critical problems on the host or the cluster configuration itself. Most common validation would be validating for this network misconfiguration if we already have different overlapping ranges of the, for instance, for parts of services that might result in problems later. There are more subtle problems, for instance, if the nodes don't have time synchronized, their time might diverge and some certificates we're sending them might not become valid from this point of view. Later on, this might cause quite a lot of problems. We can also automate the provisioning if we use protocols like IPMI, Redfish. For that, in our service, we're using a trusted OpenStack component called Ironic which helps us to automatically power on the machine, provision it with a discovery. So we build, run it in the live mode, collect validate details and then proceed with the installation all without user interaction. The progress is also, installation progress is incredibly important because it shows that the phases that the installation is passing through and the users don't have to guess if the cluster installation is finished or not yet. You might also have heard about the cluster APIs, method of installing clusters, which is a great tool, of course, but for us, these features have not been sufficient. It doesn't allow us to prevent installation if we know that cluster configuration isn't correct. However, if you want to follow that route and combine the cluster API with the agent-based installer, that's of course have created a great cluster API provider to do exactly that. For our purposes, we also have created the cluster API provider which works with assistant installer agents so that you could make use the best of those words. There are more challenging problems we would need to cover and the most challenging is probably networks. In our implementation of this in OpenGIF services, we are relying on network manager on host to configure networks for us and in order to generate network manager configurations we're using and I'm state operator to build network manager complex from Kubernetes manifest that also helps us to manage the cluster on day two as well if you want to change some of the settings here. The second problem is node configuration and basically what kind of course and what files do we want to lay there? Here we use a combination of this technologies. One of them is RPMOS tree which helps us to create an OS image from container composite from various RPMs and helps us to manage atomic upgrades. The other part is ignition which helps us to layer additional files for the configuration on disk and also manage it as a Kubernetes manifest. Both of those technologies are used by machine config operator which helps us to set required files on disk so that user could also make use of it if it wants to add some more additional things. What if you would want to use it with a different Redis distro? That would be a very, very challenging task because when the organization comes in different sizes and shapes and in order to make a useful and viable services you have to narrow it down to a particular scale. Like in our case we're focusing on network manager. We also pre-select an operating system for you. We also bind the users to use ignition as one. If you want to use your own agent base installer you would probably have to make the very same choice just like we do. Since we're also tracking the installation and all of its process we can also collect pass rate how many clusters we're able to install and which ones have failed in the mid-time how many have been canceled and so on. That helps us to maintain, to set a specific SLI for our team that we want to have a success rate of the situation for instance 75%. And if the success rate falls below we are having a problem, have to fix the service. This helps us to treat this very services and application just like any other. Since we are deploying a service which has an API and it's a web service we can definitely run it on Kubernetes as well. And since the inputs can be set as Kubernetes manifest we can throw this into an operator or controller. That gives us an opportunity to declare the whole cluster as we want to see it as Kubernetes and a bunch of Kubernetes manifest. And the operator would do necessary API calls to the service and the cluster would be installed in the end. Since we're talking about Kubernetes manifest we can store them in a Git repo get it applied by flux of Argo and we can use GitHub methods to create cluster and OpenSheetSpeak. This is called a zero-dutch provisioning where user doesn't touch the hardware to start the convention. Kubernetes manifest and feeds it to the operator operator does necessary things and the cluster gets installed in the end. Let's do a small screenshot tour on the assisted services we've decided to talk about now. First we start with a high level cluster details. Name is basically the main cluster version we want to set into one as empathy. The next step would be generating the ISO to fetch information about the machines. There are two different flavors of this ISO. One is the minimal ISO, which only has the kernel and the bare minimum just to run the OS and fetch the necessary requests from the service itself. This type of ISO is very useful in virtualized environments where network is usually provided by DHTP and usually pre-configured and can be considered stable. The other one is like so in case which includes the root device itself, just in case you need to tweak the more complicated network parameters. We also ask users to bake in their SSH public key so that they could SSH on the machine in case the agent doesn't automatically boot up so that they could fix the problem and stay here there. Later on, we will not need it. Next we are looking into the whole inventory like the list of discovered hosts we have. We can assign specific roles to them, be it control plane or worker. Immediately at this stage we run validations. For instance, we don't allow control planes hosts to be running on HD disk because the entity will be very unhappy. We also require all host names to be distinct so that they could join as different nodes and a few more. Next, we can specify the cluster network settings, be it IPv4 cluster or dual stack. We set CRDR ranges and can tweak into more complicated things. After that, we can start the installation and we read it with wizard which shows us which stage we add, which host is doing what and just the overall status of the install process. Next, we are done. Once we're done, the wizard will show us the web console URL and the generated credentials to get started for the users. It also gives you a link to download a cube content so that you could immediately get started with this cluster. Let's look into more specific details and problems we're solving. Here is an example of how we define a network configuration for particular hosts. We can set that we need two interfaces with these mic addresses and we want them to be joined in a bond with this address and parameters set like this. This manifest is handled by an in-state operator to set the necessary parameters on the node. Next, we can also define our hosts as bare metals, those in case they support protocols like IPMI and the red page and so on. We can set the address to the bare metal control interface, a link to the secrets where they could then also store. And we can set that we don't want to clean it up if the boot fails for further investigation, for instance. The open stack organic would do all the necessary steps provisioning, powering the host down first of all, running discovery.so, collecting details, touching back over the user interaction. And in the end, this agent-based installation method gives us quite a few benefits. First of all, validations, they help us prevent no entity failure configuration before touching the host itself. It gives us pretty API, which allows us to build flexible and a UAE UX reach applications on top of it. And this method allows us to use it, to be used in various infrastructures customers want to make. And that's pretty much it. Thank you very much. Let's hop into the questions. Thank you so much. Let's have a look if you have any kind of questions. That doesn't look like it. Not yet. Maybe they're coming soon. I would be interested in like, what do you think are the biggest challenges when you're talking about doing these kind of installations? Networks. A lot of challenges are revolving around networks, be it validations, first of all, we want to make them very useful for the users. On the other hand, we don't want them to be very straight, but a lot of things are revolving around networks here, because people have different. The other part is shifting validations before we write something on the disk because people get very annoyed if we destroy all the disks they have marked for installation and they have selected the invalid settings. But for technical reasons, we're going to drown some validations before we get things that we'll start it to. Inventing ways of running validations in the live or so has been quite interesting and very challenging, but networks and disks is a hard problem. And what do we can expect in the future from platforms like Opershift and OCD? Is there something which should make the live even more easier? One of the things we're working on, first of all, I try to avoid using the word OpenShift because it usually means OCD and people get very annoyed that we're neglecting OCD. Now is the good time to say that a system installer can support installations of both OCD and OCD. One of the interesting things is installing the so-called cluster zero, your own very first cluster using agent install method. This is what the team is working on. That means that involves selecting one of the nodes as the host which runs the service, then a lot of automation happens which provisions the other two nodes. But since you don't have user input at that point, you're not supposed to have an input in this way. It's again, very challenging, but an interesting task to get results. Cluster zero using the agent-based method is what we're working on next. Cool. Awesome. Then thank you very much, Vadim. Have a great day. Thanks for being here and see you soon. Thank you. Bye-bye.


Welcome to the Ultimate Everton team podcast here on Toffy TV, I am joined by Kane Forshaw, home on a white Toffy, always got something to say about Everton, you know, basically owns hands to us coaches, sit at the back like he owns the gaff. You can't get on the, you need like a, not like the way they say to get into a posh girl, you need like a letter from the queen, you need a letter from Kane. I just like that, I call it hands to us, but really it's Kane's thoughts. Although the irony is, the only time me and Bas have been on a coach trip with hands to us, you weren't there. I weren't there though, I wasn't, so I was stuck in work here and missed probably the best ship ever. Yeah, you know we don't like to talk about it too much. No, not when I'm in the room anyway, it comes at 8 missing out. But we're going to do your Ultimate Fan Team, if anyone doesn't know, we play a game here called Ultimate Fan where you pick a team every week based on the card you have, like a fantasy football thing, and you have two defenders, two midfielders and two forwards. So we're going to get Kane to pick his Ultimate Everton team. We're also going to get a team off him, which is the best, it's the best players you've ever seen, isn't it? Best players I've seen play against Everton. OK, that's going to be interesting. Bas last week don't have a best Premier League team, Astro don't have the worst, the people he ate it essentially. Let's get into who he is. First of all, I just ask, just for the basis of people wanting to know, have you had a goalkeeper? Who would your goalkeeper be? Oh, Nadia Martin, all day. Nadia Martin for me, 100%. Because I really started watching Everton, mainly like in the 2000s, 2003, and Nadia Martin was brilliant. So I remember him at Anfield and we drew 0-0 and some of the saves he made that day, and then when I started properly going, when we got Champions League, he won us so many points, so many 1-0 wins. Honestly, he's fantastic. Tim Howard was a goalkeeper for us, but towards the end, he was at Everton for too long for me, I think that's what ruined it a bit. He was a loyal player for us and he was a great ambassador for the club, but still with Howard, I think there was a few mistakes too. Nadia Martin, once he got injured, so therefore he went out on top, basically, even though he was like 13 or 11 or whatever. He went out on top and everyone was go to where you write Tim Howard when like a season, two seasons, too long. We should have really sold him after that World Cup in 2014. And got a lot of money for him. But we never and unfortunately... Is that Belgium game in it? Is it the World Cup and he made like 10 saves? 10 saves ever. Well, today you go, Nadia Martin. Good start. Well, let's get into your proper team now. So you've got two defenders. Who's your first defender? Well, my first defender is Leighton Baines, because Leighton Baines probably one of the best players I've ever seen where they share for us consistent quality. Him and Pena down that left hand side under Moise was absolutely fantastic. And then when Pena went to Spares, I thought he was got even better without him and then Pena come back. But some of the performances was three kicks, the two three kicks against Westam were brilliant. He was just a great player overall for us. I thought Leighton Baines got Luchydine now. He's been good, he's been a good replacement for Baines, but Leighton Baines I don't think... Did you say he's probably the best left back you've seen? Yeah, he's easily left better left. Of course we had, you know, when I started going when I was growing up, we had Paffand and all, but Baines is well better. Baines was just consistent and he was... He made football look so easy for me. He had the three kicks and he had, he never really, no one really ruffled his feathers too much. And he just had a, he wasn't like arrogant or not, he was very understated, very cool. Almost at times, like, you felt like he just wasn't really that bothered about football because he was so, because he was just, he was just one of those fellas where he didn't look like he lived and breathed up, but clearly he did, but he just did it in his own way. And I think he never, you know, bad performances, you could probably put on one hand how many bad performances. Very rarely got injured. Consistency, just consistency though, consistency. That's the word for me. And unfortunately, what matters is not recognised by people outside of ever and have been like this top, top left back. And what's weird, that's so weird to me. It was a report out the table, I think he's mentioned it on... Yeah, there was like a match in the day, top fullbacks. And some of them couldn't even lace his boots. You should be up there, mate. And Seamus Coleman should be up there. And other quality for Bach who will go on to Coleman. He's second more in him. I don't give anything away, I mean, but... Now, think about Baines. Obviously, there was a thing in 2010, when England were going on to the World Cup. He did an interview where someone, like, said he was home, like he was home sick, he said he was home sick or something. And the comment was taken weirdly. It was taken in such a weird way.  And he basically lost his spot in the squad because of it. Stephen Warnoch. To Stephen Warnoch, who's absolutely dropped. I'll never get that decision, you know.  He does, he looks... No, I'll never get that decision, no Pat, honestly. The four me was in at that time for Everton. He was probably one of the best he's ever played for us in that period. Going up. Of course, I'm sure that was just when we got out the FA Cup final. FA Cup final 2009. It was peak mwys, wasn't it? Like peak mwys. And then it was just a typical Fabio Capello moment. Typical England, though. England or England. Like, when he did play, he never put anyone in front of him. It was always the shoe on someone in. So he never got the best arm. The left back who could give it a go and get up the pitch. And again, you know, this national club was a great full back, but I think it... I thought Leighton Beans were better. Leighton Beans was an all-round player, wasn't he? And Ashley Cole. If you put Ashley Cole in that Everton side, would you still get the same thing about Leighton Beans done forever? Personally, I don't think so, because Leighton Beans was up and down non-stop creating goals. Fantastic defensively. I don't think that gets spoken about enough. For the best part of a decade, obviously, that left hand side was so strong for Everton. He was so important. And obviously, he's with the back of the club. And it'll be interesting to see what his pathway is now. He's working more in the coaching, even though he came in. He's not really a coach. He's more of a facilitator, someone to speak to. It'll be interesting to see whether he gets the bug for coaching and where that takes him, because he's a very understated person. So what is he actually doing now? Well, I think at the moment, he's working with the under-18. He's a temporary assistant as we speak right now. So it'll be very, very interesting to see what his pathway is in football and see whether he gets that bug and whether he's got a tactical idea. Because I think he's a very tactical fellow, but he's also a very cool and calm fellow.  And you could see him standing on the sidelines with a really nicely fitted suit, just analysing the game with his hair blowing in the wind and just analysing it all and then making key decisions and never getting ruffled and that kind of thing. That's another way to describe him when he played for Everton, he was always calm.  I forget what happened, but I just remember Leighton Baines losing his head and it was just quality to see. I also remember in the Martinish years, there was a picture of you at Waffa, holding a flag, basically suggesting that Leighton Baines leave the club. Someone put Leighton Baines in the space? Someone photoshopped Leighton Baines on your head and I've still got that picture on my phone. Baines was one of us? Cos obviously Baines came out after a man United defeat and basically said something's not right here and no-one really wants to talk about it. Martinish tried to make Baines apologise, that's what it was all about. That's what got the fans really on. People felt like Baines understood. There was also a... I think it was one of Martinish's last games so when you got B4 now by Liverpool at Landfield and there was a picture on the internet of Martinish giving Baines instructions and you can just see him rolling his eyes. The instructions saying Leighton Baines, weren't defend please mate. No chance. I think Leighton Baines will be a very popular person on this podcast. It's always interesting to find out the different reasons and of course you would have been at West Ham as well that they scored the two first. You know what, I actually weren't there. I weren't there. Why weren't you there? At that time... It was in August wasn't it? You would have been on holiday? No, no, it was September. And also at that time I was in college and I didn't have enough money. I had to miss a lot of away games and obviously I think it was the best season we played. I didn't think there were many away games. That was actually, it was the first game. It was the first time I missed that season. But you know. So your second defender, he wore it, he's sort of sporty for everyone. So your second defender? My second defender is Seamus Coleman. Loyalty for the club. He's just been brilliant for us. Like on the pitch and off the pitch. Stuff where he's done everything in the community. But on the pitch, when he peaked all my way and it's his first season but Moses last season too was absolutely brilliant for everything. Probably the best right back I've seen play for everything. Right far because all I got to see was Tony a bit before Coleman. No, you're absolutely right. And what's funny about those two plays is that other people suggest that other clubs sort of created this idea of fullbacks being your wit. When we had Baines and Coleman, I have a sad it was just brilliant to watch wasn't it? Both of them getting up and down. I remember when we beat Wolfsburg and I think it was I have a Baines knocked it for the Coleman that I've had that fantastic. But like defensively too Coleman. I first like it weren't like very good defensively but I think he's worked on that throughout his everything career and he's just got much better. I think going on to Blackpool on loan. Blackpool, yeah got promoted with them. Got promoted with them that out. And he's just been loyal towards everything and on Monday night they're coming for Baines and Coleman. I didn't get one point I don't know if that was under David Moyes when they had Moyes but both of them have been great loyal servants for the club. I think you said again on the video like the Jack Elcher and Coleman and Baines they deserve testimonials and something needs to be done about that in my opinion. Coleman is obviously as we speak he's obviously very much still part of the first team which is a testament to him but it's also what is mad for me is that Baines they replaced and we've got a year of him and he went when people still wanted him. Coleman, he's someone that Evan have really struggled to replace and that shows how good he's been but it's still frustrating that Evan who did have that amazing set of full backs haven't been able to, haven't used that and gone right but we need to keep doing that. We found something that's good, it works and we need to keep doing that. I think it did show how good Coleman is when we got Jibril Sidibe and then you go for Mavinshamers Coleman for the way down there for Sidibe. We have got a difficult life it's very hard to find the right backs of a place Coleman at the minute. The good news I think going forward is is that full backs like Coleman and now the way full backs are trained to be very rarely find a full back now who's just completely defensive. They are the wit of a football team now and when you look at other teams doing well in the Premier League and Eman City and Liverpool it's because they've got that wit, Chelsea as well they've got that wit coming from full back and allows them in the fields to tuck in gives you an opportunity to have that false number nine you can drop in. It really does set your team up and we had the best two for the best part of a decade so absolutely both of them. Coleman as you said, Coleman is like he gets involved locally he loves being at Everton he is the captain you could stop him on the street and have a conversation with you. He's just a really nice guy and obviously breaking his leg was a major I mean his leg break was devastating and it's probably robbed him of three years of his career at the peak I think he never really truly recovered from that leg break it's his age now and I think this is what happened with the likes of this stand stayed here far too long and then it almost like ruins what he did before so I think we need, sorry to go back on to it again but we do need a right back as soon as possible because you don't want to damage what Coleman has done for Everton because people will remember him from his last years. You should actually replace people basically a year before they need replacing and you should get their replacements in and let them bedding whether they come from abroad whether they're young and need a year laying and the ropes are a big club whether they come from the championship no matter what people need like a crossover year and that's what all the best clubs do because when players come in at other clubs and people like sort of laugh at them because they're not doing well it's like yeah but it's fine because we can take them out and put the guy they're going to replace back in the sea and it's you know you look at what that's what top clubs do and ever have struggled with that they don't do that enough so and then you let them linger on you mentioned to him hour before you let them linger on and then then people start getting on the back and it's dead hard to be like when your kids are sizing someone it's dead hard to go the minute they finish go oh you were amazing because I'm like I used to slag him off but that's for both that's not way for both fans isn't it let's get into the midfield so who is your first midfielder? My first midfielder is Stephen P now you know what? Best player I've seen where the Aventon chair for me in my lifetime anyway obviously we've had probably much better players than him in the 80s and so on but for me P now just Leighton Baines and Stephen P now on that left hand side now P now dribble with the ball the tuck inside and Leighton Baines go around the outside to put the crosses in fantastic and again I think he went to space realised he made the mistake and come back and he's probably regretted it ever since hasn't he because he went to space and it looked like a totally different player again Spairs didn't know how to use them and they didn't have Leighton Baines and it's that idea of like when Baines played for England he didn't have P now in front of him they were a partnership they were an ultimate partnership and P now would have because obviously we got this thing this pre-assist that now and he'd have blown to them and he would be he'd be leading in Premier League history guarantee it and many goals did we create like that's always to do go from that left hand side to do that little roll back with Baines Baines would get it give it a P now P now would have his back to the goal do some kind of little drag back and then you find Baines had gone ahead of him Baines would put it in and we were scoring like nine times out of ten it was like that the cuff fan was in it and then P now when Baines crossed it in fellen he missed the other and then he scored that's what most of our goals are go down that left hand side and P now was fantastic waiting to share for us he was brilliant on his day and again another very consistent performer for us he was brilliant he got stuck in as well I think people didn't realise I know when he came people were like I'm not sure about his size he got stuck in he wanted to work hard he loved Moise loved Moise club never gave him a contact which was mental again he went to Spares when he was in his peak and of course we got him back from Spares but he was cup tied so he never played in a semi against Liverpool and even though he was boss when he came back he just wasn't quite as good as he was before he left and then obviously my man came in a man is really could have done with him he could never get that level of consistency with his injuries and he was always injured the club basically text him and said to you later that and he went to Sunland and again he's another one that hasn't I know they've brought him back as an ambassador and me and Bas spoke about that that last weekend in the podcast but he's never sort of been truly recognised on the pitch and like you just said there the likes of Jagie Elchard the likes of Baines and Leon Oshman Leon Oshman never got that he bit got his big send off Oshman had a testimony o ddod it was a great year he did it was a great supporter it was half empty well at the time it never felt like they were truly rewarded that shows you I can't remember no what it is no what it is is because when I grew up right we had proper testimonials when I got up playing Rangers and Celtic oh I remember it now they had that brand kit on didn't they they had that brand kit on I remember that now but that's the problem with testimonials they don't do them properly anymore but it never feels like people get truly rewarded for them we got beat by portable it was going to give away a penalty didn't it giannwys first game he gave away a penalty and I think we got beat but the thing about testimonials is nowadays like everyone remembers dunks because he was obviously rain and runy came back and dunk came off and I loved it but one now you know yeah it was boss it was boss it's just like that though but Jags I always thought Jags in Howard see me Howard he should have gone to America and played a testimonial where he played half a game for heaven and half a game for and we were saying that at the time and you like the club don't think like that because they're not as intelligent as me and Baz and that's what you would have done and you would have got loads of people behind it or if it had been like exactly the MLS All Stars vs Everton I was going to play half a game for Colorado for the All Stars and half a game for Everton do you remember when we played the MLS All Stars and we played in a kit what are we in even in our kit I was going to say two very quick stories of Everton and their ineptness in America right so number one is that so Everton played the MLS team All Stars in 2009 we just signed a deal with Lecoq Sportif so basically they played in a blue kit and we haven't launched that away kit so what you'd think is if you were a marketing person is Everton would wear their brand new away kit which hadn't been launched yet in America against the All Stars no we wore a training kit the white training top with like a weird thing on it Jimmy Mann had to thrown numbers on the back and we wore it in a net now if they were in the All Stars game then wasn't as big but now they play like the cream of your like Barcelona Barcelona, Bayern Munich whoever it's a big big game it's a big thing then it wasn't as big but it's still you're growing a fan base in America you're at Landon Dodd team Howard unbelievable mate so they played this train in this train on top and I've honestly never seen the likes of it in my life it happened again remember the over here Crystal Palace away and we had to play in the old away kit from the season before and the other one this is the other one is we played Philadelphia Union and it was after the Whale Cup team Howard is the hottest property in the world to all the posters have got to team Howard Moise never played him he said he needed but team Howard was there he walked on at our time and gave everyone a wave and Philadelphia Union kicked off kicked off in literal sense and said you said we've promised team Howard was going to be playing and you said he was going to be playing and basically he came on at our time like Doc Dubnick from The Simpsons hi everybody did he have a jog around the pitch like the ass probably run out of the circle his cap like that typical 11 is that typical 11 is that proper embarrassing proper embarrassing we could do me and Baz need to do the best and worst testimonial that would be a good video that would be good when we were growing up we had proper testimonial I remember Manchester Vaces Maisie side it was Grameshaw's testimonial and I think Manchester won 6'5 or might have won 6'5 7'6 whatever Baz was waving 7'6 at me it was mad it was a good decision I was at the back of the Gladder Street and it was just a mad cos he was at all them at the time rushing sharp playing up for 11 imagine that happening now it was mad but that's what that's what they used to be like really yeah testing models obviously they all like they haven't lived up her plays they all meet back then testing models in the old days used to be like grab a play from here grab a play from here like when Rooney played that's what they used to be like but now they're like now they're part of like the pre-season but anyway we massively digress pina amazing player we all love him he never quite gets the love I don't think from ever and he should have no why because he never sold kids but that's it well the thing I remember Gary Neville saying that beans and pina were one of the reasons why you retire don't know remember that where he he was the free all game and he was at the back end of his career and he absolutely got ripped apart then he got destroyed at Stoke and retired what a way to go out I've just been destroyed I am retired that's brilliant I love that I can't do that I've offered that myself if only his brother would have had the same sentiments after Wigan wonder if you'd be good playing in St Allen's well listen I can't go with Dave Oltre goes on in St Allen's playing football let's move to your second player the player who didn't get the contract and did look good on poster selling kits who is he I'm sorry boss Michael Artheta Michael Artheta Michael Artheta Artheta growing up like Peds just said posters everywhere he was always like probably the main man him and Kyle absolutely he was fantastic great free kicks just how he carried the ball on the pitch for everything he was like a magician at times basically and for me when I was growing up I absolutely loved watching him play it was just a shame how he left everything for me and that's what will always warm me up about him and when you see him at Arsenal now he's acting like he's this Arsenal legend which he just isn't is he but like I said he stayed for a lot of years of everything he was great on the pitch for us I really enjoyed him for us and when he was out there sad he missed it yeah we missed it he was out there for eight years wasn't he eight years yeah I remember when he came Thomas Graverson had just gone to the Real Madrid and we all thought the world was going to end and he you know his first goal was the Palace 4-0 we were trying to get into the Champions League and he just gave us that bit of class he started on the right came into midfield like Pina a lot of people probably thought he was going to be physically big enough yeah he didn't just play in the middle did he? he was on the right side he was on the left side he was playing them everywhere I remember there was a game against Villa we played away against Villa and I think we beat him 3-0 or 3-1 3-1 it was and he oes me'n cael and honest to God you could see nothing but good stuff coming forever and it was just we had this fella who had a little bit of class in the midfield he was fantastic but could look after himself and he laid that thing of like when people grab an hole just to scrub them off he scored the goal against a foreign team and that nearly broke all the sun down absolutely rocked that I did and I've never known a stadium to hold its breath every single person when you watch it back now and you just it's like oh like with the crowd noise and then it's just that second of silence and then it hits the back of the next one there's a moment in there where everyone holds the breath everyone goes quiet and everything just slows down and then suddenly when it leaves his foot everything just speeds up and it hits the back of the next and again if we that's typical heaven if we'd won that game we'd won that tournament no on on people thought we had a great team that tournament we had the ycubi no players like that ycubi win that tournament it was brilliant we scored that I think it escaped Brandon like that but at it brilliant that goal was fantastic he always thought about that foreign team like we won the game that's what it feels it's free kick it's free kick it's whole remember that one remember his goal against Hull where he skipped inside and then smashed one with his left foot into the top corner glad it's the lead yeah I think so I remember that was against Bolton oh my god that Bolton that was amazing I remember that one but he scored a nice one against Hull it wasn't a free kick he was pina pina bachio he put in the bottom corner at it he just made it look so, so easy at times for us and like it I remember it he had a bad injury it was the second season he had a Bucharest at home and I fell on his head and he was half a wow I mean obviously the really bad injury was in 2009 the year he got to the Cuffan went to Newcastle Dona's Dona's Dona's knee without anyone around the same game that Anna Chabe got stood on his well and he was that so both of them were out for a year and you know it's a gaelch yn nôr I remember that the Cuffan in 2009 the Curby yeah we had hardly any place and again that was our best team that was our pt but Arthetta was amazing he was just he was just a cut above he was like you had all but that team had all see I go back when me and Baz have spoke about this on the show and you laugh baron years of course we had a lot of baron years but between 2008 and the end of 2009 or 2007, 2008, 2008, 2009 those two teams were some of the best I genuinely believe those teams were better than the Leicester team that won the league it was just that for one reason or another we just couldn't put it all together but in terms of football and the players it was brilliant to watch and of course we had just that moist mentality of when we went into seeing games it was the away games we never put it all together but with especially them two seasons we'd have got champions league in both of them seasons if we had to go away for a moment I thought how we set up away was a bit negative at times you spoke about going to the old track and laying the club on that nice to a gun fight and it was just that type of mentality what let us down I guess we did have the players getting that champions league we were fighting for the champions league up until May every season that team deserved a trophy any team in this whole time deserved to have won a trophy it was that those two years it was the year for me the injuries if Everton didn't have them injuries I honestly think we would have won that of course they were peak years they were all peak years for the team and what happened was obviously after we didn't win the cup final and we came back obviously City then had the money they came sniffing round Lescott he went sort of other players started to leave or whatever like peeing on and stuff and we were we basically didn't have money we were replacing them so when we get to 2012 obviously Artheta scores against Blackburn Penalty last minute to win is the game and then I think it was like the Tuesday night the deadline and it was clear this day we had no money and he I had more respect for Artheta on Friday in the summer rather than last minute that was it for me you can't just go out the back door in the last minute he had chances to go to Manchester City they wanted him and they were willing to give us really big money for him and it was like that thing of no and then he when the Arsenal thing come he pushed us into a corner where it was like what are we going to do he manufactured the thing himself he was the one that could listen waking the factory machine and all that he didn't have no way to go I think we brought in like Drenter so that money if he didn't use it in the summer that money could have been used I still don't know where the money is nobody does I've heard that it's actually in the case in the money in the bank in WWF that's where I've heard it that's where no one can get it I've seen that picture of Bill in the ring with it and listen it leaves a sour taste on a lot of people's minds how he left and he'll never have always been there and all this nonsense and like you said there you don't get that feeling you went to Arsenal and a couple of cups and it feels like he just sold the soul it feels like he had eight years of Arsenal but he never thought of it and he tries now really he tries and after that he's this Arsenal legend but he's not a very good manager but he was a great player and he's got hair like a go no it's disappointing it's a point where you do really love somebody that was one of the first ones for me where I was absolutely devastated when someone left and it was just the way it happened because players will always leave your football club always if he left at the start of the summit and we got a replacement in used money I wouldn't be bitter towards but it's how we left there's nothing wrong with losing players evidence big problem is now they can't get rid of players that's alright it's not wrong but it's how you leave a football club and everything that goes with it but moving on to the forwards your first one I let Baselwf Kintielskers as a fake position last week in a way and this play is going to have a bit of a fake position in a way as well so tell us in the first one I'm going to explain that because Sim Cael played behind the striker so he's going to I'm not going to reveal the striker I probably know who he is anyway but you know obviously next play is Tim Cael absolutely brilliant so small but won every header for us some of the editors he scored over at kick at Chelsea he was brilliant for us just played with all his art he played like he was a scout and he was an everton fan in my opinion how many scouts have you seen play like Tim Cael scouts isn't only the ones who let us down and get off on the right team well true but he was great for us Cael scored the big games loved playing against Man City loved playing against Liverpool and Liverpool he was just honestly I've got no words for him basically he was one of my favourite players of all time again fantastic he's just brilliant off the pitch too brilliant loves like loves selling his own brand now I mean if you need a watch shell and had given it to Tim Cael to sell well yeah and I don't know how he managed to get involved with Roderick I just got one to the what the fuck he's in with the Qatarians now he's the head of the World Cup but now we're applying some of leaving I mean this is a fit lad who went to New York and obviously it was like the right time he was just coming to the end of his I think because there's a fan base except at the time he did struggle that last season the goal stopped coming in and you could tell he scored one goal I think it was a full on my own and you could tell he went very quick anyway Cael was he and that was the best thing about Cael of course Fellain he had come in I think Adne and Fellain he had come in and I think had basically stolen his position Fellain he started getting gold Fellain he was playing in his position Moise might have started to be alas he could play Fellain in favour of it and it was perfect because he went to the States had a couple of good years in the States and then I think he went to China and then Australia and all around the world he's probably had a game on on Tatic at that many countries he played with the Penguins no polar bears because there aren't no polar bears in the Antarctic only in the Arctic I don't know if you fact feel that now he was amazing player and from day one coming ruffle with everyone's feathers and that fair season fell on that position behind the striker like he said Carsley sat as the DM and Moise just got it away perfectly and he loved the big guys he's got the joint record with Dixie Dean for the most goals against Liverpool he scored a few but obviously they ended up in the fields and he scored when we were going to be 2-0 and he scored that half only in front of the club and if that had been like if that had been like if that had been a game we'd won he scored when he first joined us he scored on his first and he would have been Andy after he scored a Ramfield 2 scored the winner in the win against them in 2004 as well and the one that got us in 2010 Andy Johnson the mat the equaliser of the Ramfield 2 or 8-0 now in the last minute man for the big occasion of course what did you make of it when he obviously left and he came back for that final game when it was Moise's final game because a lot of people looked back at that because obviously Moise left the school to man United and we did give him the big fanfare and it does, I don't know because I think obviously with the Bane's thing and the Flaney thing it does stick in the throat a little bit but obviously he came back for that and obviously that was we talked before about players getting there during getting their send off and that was like his little send off and I always look back on that and I can't be ass-tolding onto any anger to me that was like that day we just beat West Ham ironically and it just felt like a perfect send off for Moise and Cale but what I'd say to that at the same time was when he went to Red Bulls to arrange the friendly because we were at a football club and we didn't do that the same as when Rooney went that could have been a send off Red Bulls could have come to Scottish we could have just gone to New York we could have just gone to New York and played them twice and all the Blues because I remember when he went there in fact my mate Eric when I was doing the Follow Tony's podcast we got into with Tim Cale he was getting pictures with them and everything he's a massive Evertonian he calls us way he's glad that Everton now he calls Everton a little bit he's still a massive Evertonian the reason I said I think a lot of our fans would have been a bit wound up they couldn't have went to a testimony on America so they did a fair act would have been a very long coach big ferry definitely Tim Cale, absolute legend so go on, who's your second striker and your final player in your ultimate team Romelu Lukaku big Rom absolutely brilliant for us and I don't think he gets the credit he deserves personally everyone holds on to missing a penalty at Wembley but I think all players miss penalties you miss more than penalties that day though you miss chances that day but at the same time what I will say to that too is the team around Romelu Lukaku where Everton has never been good enough we've never had players we've had Aaron Lennon playing off him he's at the back end of his career day we've had players like my valash was good for us but we were never consistent if he had players like the Charleston and coming off I think, oh my god he would have scored more goals for us is final two seasons of Martinis we finished 11 twice and he had like 20 goals in both seasons I still would have skipped that how does that even work how do you have a top class striker how much of a fraud that manager is and it pains me to think fans wanted him back in the summer how do you do that and obviously last season did amazingly well scored the goals he was brilliant and what's sad is playing for Everton he's now a footnote in his career and yet, I don't care what anyone says that was the best part of his career the best part of his career was that last season when Cooman had them I think and he scored I think he was up there for the golden boot and then Harry Kane scored and that took on the last day but some of the goals he scored the FA Cup goal against Chelsea and then you know what that second goal that day was unbelievable to like he scored he was just a consistent goal scorer and that's something we've obviously missed different types of goals as well and more times than not hit the target he always hit the target I just thought he was you know what though right for a big striker like that he was very very good with his feet like that and he ran with that ball he used to take us up the pitch himself at times and like and we left disrespectful definitely do you think he was though because I tell you why right I tell you one thing like Davies but football players are only today while we're recording this I heard his agent talking on Sky today literally saying about how he loved one to it's not right all that and his agent actually said he had a dream to come back to Chelsea but I must admit he would have loved to have gone to Real Madrid as well and I just thought oh my god oh my god he's been he's been he's been at Chelsea for like three months and his agent already signed about Real Madrid but that used to be what it was on what our fans said that he'd go on international break and then it'd be like oh they want to go and play Champions League football and that's what everyone ate at the same time and I always stick with me what I didn't like about the car here at the end was that interview he did and I don't know what language he was speaking French and he was talking about he was going to sign a contract and he was just smiling he was in America wasn't he and I was just like yeah why don't you just go and tell all the fans do you know what I mean oh no this was the before that was after the game no no I remember that he spoke to a guy from a French media and the guy actually I think might have tagged us in and basically people were giving the guy a load of stick because he was definitely signing the contract and he asked the fan he was like smile armers into saying no and everyone was because it was 99% sure and then everyone thought he was going to sign it and he didn't because someone told him not to and yeah but now what I ate is about that this is what I ate about footballers genuinely now when they come out like when they go on international breaks but they used to like Fellainian stuff and go oh I'm not sure what I'm going to do blah blah blah why don't you just come out and talk after the match and go do you know what I think inside of this football club not going out and buying players that are going to win us the trophies all going to get why don't you just come out and say it instead of doing like half measures and going out and like I think there was there was one time he kind of did do that dog pet I remember he did an interview with the echo and it was like a kick racist amount of football thing he was doing I think that was the basement to sign it I think it was the final January wasn't it and he was saying do you ever need to do you ever need to show ambition and that was the thing with Le Carchy what he always liked about him he had ambition to win things and don't get it wrong he's only wonder he's got that ambition and he stayed a year long with him really he could have gone he could have gone to Chelsea he could have gone on to stay and you know I remember being down at Arsenal for the last game and he scored the penalty he came over on his own didn't he and you knew he was going to leave and if a club doesn't match a player's ambition and the player is doing his bit then you can't argue you simply can't argue so I don't know for a lot of people it leaves a bad taste again but as a footballer on the pitch I love them you can do all the talking off the pitch for me but you know what right if you put the ball in the back of the net forever and win the schemes so that's your six Coleman, Bains Pina Kale and Lukaku so that is your ultimate Everton team and I think there will be a few people with a game and you know on that one let's get into you've got six six players that you your best six players you've ever watched let's start with the defenders right first one is Vincent Company I thought Vincent Company when he played against Everton was just always like a solid seven out of ten all the time and Lukaku was always in society struggled playing against Company because the Belgian team it's what he'd always like have a finger but Company was just solid he was just built like a brick out house he was fantastic and what he's done for Man City scored important goals and remember he scored on a cuff fan he scored against United the one against Leicester then Liverpool if Liverpool point first they go top of the league then City had to come back it was about 12 minutes ago and everyone was terrified because obviously they've had one league up to that point and everyone was just really terrified and they haven't won anything to that point and all the players were signing into after the game the scene company get the ball at the edge of the box and they were going don't shoot, don't shoot and he just did and they went in the back of the net quality is great defender and he always popped up with important goals for City like the other one against United before the QPR game popped up with the letter didn't he 1-1-0 that got them to play against QPR on the same point because it was the second to last game I think they had them midweek and then they had the QPR on the Sunday and it was never got one that game we're obviously going to go into the game now that they won the game I think if United won that it would have been the other way around it would have only had to have gone to Middlesbrun got like a point on something out of it so he was great who's your second one my second one is Viddach not many of Viddach he was again built by company just a big rock fantastic won everything in the air by company great tackles honestly great foil for Ferdinand that's what I was going to say John Terry and Ferdinand were fantastic I just want to mix it up a BF4 Viddach Viddach when he played against Devott never in Norway used to struggle to score against United you just knew you were in for a difficult game I remember him scoring the red in front of the Gladyslith in all of Viddach was great at that quality player won lots of things with United that's on me what happened to Viddach after United he went to Italy you know what it might be and then he just suddenly he was coming towards the end probably just at about 30 and Man United moved them on because that was the thing he had Michael Keane coming through probably thought Michael Keane is coming through that will be fine now we went into and got a good deal out of it and Man United will have brought the next one in what a defender part of that 2008 team is it? I think he won it in Moscow against Chelsea and then he got them to the final wembling against Barca that's right isn't it that was 2012 wasn't it when he got beat by Barca runes scored that day didn't he he's just being brilliant did he get beat by Barca on a twice in Rome 2007 that was I think the Wembley one might have been 2010 okay 2011 2011 not our teams but he was brilliant both for them too I think they make a good pair they get me a lot of points on that first play in the midfield first play in the midfield was David Silver every time he came to Godderson had players chasing him just so just made football look so easy we moved the board and dribbled unbelievable honestly and like we ran into space to score goals and he'll be another player people look back on him and think I can't remember him he was brilliant he was very underrated I think when he came in he was actually like one of city's big players the first big one where people went oh they got him instead of like Barca or Real Madrid they got him and I think a lot of people looked at his size and thought he's going to be out of the country in two years he won't get it to go and he did because he's brilliant and city for years and years city just had them and you know folding I think is going to become the natural but now silver was like the next one but then folding is going to be the long one the brains of the team and even in his last year he played covid games but he was still scoring goals he was still like just and again in those players that you think we could have got another year out of him but went out to the top went to associate that and I think he's still doing amazingly for associate that and wonder how old he is now silver he must be getting on like but he's still playing for associate that isn't he like quality I used to love watching him play against us at Cudderson and even going away to the Etihad at that time but he was city's best player by far he came in y hayatore he was another one for city incredible player and obviously I think there's a statue out there probably a statue that looks nothing like him nothing like him at all so there you go who is your second midfielder? Frank Lampard another man city legend? listening with Lampard you used to always turn up against Devon you used to warm me up but when you look back now he was fantastic honestly some of the goals he used to score were ridiculous but I think he shouldn't have scored that goal in the final though he shouldn't have scored that but like I said he always popped up with the goal against Devon and I remember there's a screamer when he beat us 3-2 at Cudderson he just put in the top four he always scored against us Lampard the goal tally for Chelsea he's still Chelsea's record goal scorer I'm sure he is your mum and again fantastic player again a player for the big occasion very similar to Kale someone who arrived late always scored the goals and just again he scored a couple of bolton the day he won the league and he just always turned up and he made the big ball to there and Lach hang on over his head cos his dad was a legend of course he's celebrated like his dad celebrated when he beat us in the cup Do you remember seeing that video with him at Lampard and the fella's going why you bring him Lampard sitting here and he's got a fan event and the fella's like no we've got this fella called JoeBlogs he's amazing why aren't you playing him and Radnab's going they're going and this fella's the real deal and the other fella's probably working in a pie shop and Lampard's doing what he does so fair play he's another one he went to Man City Man City got something out of him as well then he went to America he's caught in America it's not that hard see players go to America they don't struggle when you've got the right attitude you always look after yourself you're a professional footballer and we got up in the Champions League of course with Chelsea one of all the domestic trophies with Chelsea I think so did everything I think he won the league at City as well did he probably he won something with City he was a quality meter honestly what a fantastic player to watch so go on as your first forward first forward to DJI Drogbett so always score against 7-2 I could just say that free two game and he got a lot on his chest and it's on the off-aluminium from to the park and bloody out 2-1 up Yobol was that like between Christmas and New Year? yeah it was around then it was winter time around Christmas it might have been just before Christmas I think everyone was dead happy about to go on the Christmas and then Drogbett just does that last minute Drogbett does that he was quality he was just like I don't know are we out the ball I just love that I love that he was the goals he scored you look back and people say he didn't score enough goals in the Premier League but you know what the big goals again like we just spoke about I think he scored the most goals at Wembley in the final he's only just been actually well Sara this week has just took the record for most goals by an African player in the Premier League itself oh really? Didn't know that and when he came he wasn't young when he came as well he came on my side didn't he? he wasn't seen as this amazing player it's just that Marino seeing him and was like you're exactly what I need someone big strong and fast who can hold the ball off Marino didn't expect him to be that good did he? no but he built a team around him didn't he built a team around him and knew that with someone like him up front who could hold the ball because you get it sometimes when you hold it up and he'd be away everything just went up a level when he went to the Premier League he scored 100 goals in 226 games for Chelsea that's not bad but you know when you look at the Premier League records you'd expect them to score more goals have you seen this tally though? it's obviously he's in a 100 club right but you compare him with the likes of Henry, Shearer and all that you'd be up there but he's quite low considered and like do you know what I mean by that? because he wasn't like wasn't a goal scorer? but what it was they had so many good players so many good forwards to Chelsea and you know what he was at his best for me was when Enelchel was with him and that was another one and he was a red like but I can't bear him but say for example he's always pop up against Nicholas in Elchynor honestly, absolutely and he said that at Munich in the final for Champions League won them a Champions League last penalty he did he scored seconds by the Chelsea scored 4 goals in 28 games I love drugs but he was proper centre forward that's how I like Stikers to be he scored 21 and 32 games from Montreal Montreal when he went to America Enelchel is easy if you go oh yeah that's what I call instead of easy if you go what a player know he used to do it against us so who's your last player second forward? Harry Kane really? let's go back to the theme let's go back to the theme best performers against Everton and who always pops up against Everton Michael Lohan Alan Shearer let's fade now these are up before my time following Everton anyone who ever played for any team in the Premier League if someone can get the stats up of who scored the most goals against Everton Harry Kane will be in the top five and you know what and the reason why he's in my team another one, another performance we're going back to performance it's not about player ability Kane in that I think he beat us six to before Christmas probably best performance I've seen by a player against Everton but another name I wanted to say to and he only played twice against us but he absolutely ripped us apart was Cardozo do you remember that Benfica, unbelievable I went to Benfica, well you know probably in all life I went to Benfica on a weekend and all the fans still buzzed off Cardo's noise I said to the fella when he played against Devon he was unbelievable when we played against Benfica he was unreal Tyrion Ray obviously another mention Boss, quality I think every striker in the league has scored against Devon Ferdinand the Shared has scored 16 goals against the Pocains go 13 goals for us and there's a lot of room for manoeuvre there Fair play Well Kane loves it against Devon he always stands up and loves it actually against us he can't wait, scored twice against us last season to care to see of Mason Holgate and Michael Keane at the Gullison so thanks for that thanks for that so there you go that is Kane's ultimate Everton team and his ultimate team against Devon the best he's ever seen so fair play there you go let us know what you think in the comments about Kane's two teams and your horrible memories of all those rats playing against us let us know let us know your thoughts and we'll be back next week with somebody else I don't know where it's going to be the ultimate Everton team don't forget you can download the app now get involved in that see you later