Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering Pentaho World 2017. Brought to you by Hitachi Ventura. Welcome back to sunny Orlando, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, and this is Pentaho World. Hashtag P-World 17, Don Delosier. He's the co-chair of the Midwest IoT Council. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Good to be here. Yeah, so, you just written a new book. I got it right here in my heart, off the presses in my hands. The future of IoT, leveraging the shift to a data-centric world. Can you see that okay? All right, great, how's that? You got that? Well, congratulations on getting the book done. Thanks. It's like the closest a male can come to having a baby, I guess. But so, it's fantastic. Let's start with sort of the premise of the book. Why'd you write it? Sure. I'll give you the short version, because that in and of itself can go on forever. I'm a data guy by background, and for the last five or six years, I've really been passionate about IoT. And the two converged with a focus on data, but it was kind of ahead of where most people in IoT were, because they were mostly focused on sensor technology and communications, and to a limited extent, the workflow. So I kind of developed this thesis around where I thought the market was going to go, and I would have this conversation over and over and over, but it wasn't really sticking. And so I decided maybe I should write a book to talk about it, and it took me forever to write the book, because fundamentally, I didn't know what I was doing. Fortunately, I was able to eventually bring on a couple of co-authors, and collectively, we were able to get the book written, and we published it in May of this year. And give us the premise. So the central thesis of the book is that the market is going to shift from a focus on IoT-enabled products, like a smart refrigerator or a low-fat fryer or a turbine in a factory or a power plant or whatever. It's going to shift from the IoT-enabled products to the IoT-enabled enterprise. If you look at the Harvard Business Review article that Jim Heppelman and Michael Porter did in 2014, they talked about the progression from products to smart products to smart connected products to product systems to system of systems. We've largely been focused on smart connected products, or as I would call, IoT-enabled products. And most of the technology vendors have focused their efforts on helping the lighting vendor or the refrigerator vendor or whatever, IoT-enabled their product. But when that moves to mass adoption of IoT, if you're the CIO or the CEO of C-Land or Disney or Walmart or whatever, you're not going to want to be a company that has 100,000 IoT-enabled products. You're going to want to be an IoT-enabled company. And the difference is really all around data primacy and how that data is treated. So right now, most of the data goes from the IoT-enabled product to the product provider. And they tell you what data you can get. But that, if you look at the progression, it's almost mathematically impossible that that is sustainable. Because company organizations are going to want to take my, like let's just say, let's say we're talking about a fast food restaurant. They're going to want to take the data from the low-fat fryer and the data from the refrigerator or the shake machine or the lighting system or whatever. And they're going to want to look at it in the context of the other data. And they're going to also want to combine it with their point of sale or crew scheduling or inventory. And then if they're smart, they'll start to even pull in external data like pedestrian traffic or street traffic or micro-weather or whatever. And they'll create a much richer signature. And then it comes down to governance where I want to create this enriched data set and then propagate it to the right constituent in the right time in the right way. So you still give the product provider back the data that they want. And there's nothing that precludes you from doing that. And you give the low-fat fryer provider the data that they want. But you give your regional and corporate offices a different view of the same data. And you give the FDA or your supply chain partner, it's still the same atomic data. But what you're doing is you're separating the creation of the data from the consumption of the data. And that's where you gain maximum leverage. And that's really the thesis of the book. It's data, a great summary by the way. So it's data in context. And the context of the low-fat fryer is going to be different than the workflow within that retail operation. Yeah, that's right. And again, this where the product providers have initially kind of pushed back because they feel like they have stickiness and loyalty that's bred out of that link. But first of all, that's going to change. So if you're Walmart or a major concern and you say, I'm going to do a lighting RFP and there's 10 vendors that say, hey, we want to compete for this. And six of them will allow Walmart to control the data. And four say, no, we have to control the data. Their list just went to six. They're just not going to put up with that. Yeah, absolutely. That's right. So if the product providers are smart, they're going to get ahead of this and say, look, I get where the market's going. We're going to need to give you control of the data. But I'm going to ask for a contract that says, I'm going to get the data I'm already getting because I need to get that. And you want me to get that. But number two, I'm going to recognize that Walmart can give me my data back, but enrich it and contextualize it so I get better data back. So everybody can win, but it's all about the right architecture. Well, the product guys kind of have the Trojan horse strategy of getting in when nobody was really looking. That's right. And okay, so they've got there. Do you envision, Don, a point at which the Walmart might say, no, that's our data and you don't get it? Or is there going to be a quid pro quo? Not really. And here's why. The argument that the product providers have made all along is, almost in a condescending way sometimes, although not intentionally condescending, it's been, look, we're selling you this low fat fryer for your fast food restaurant. And you say you want the data, but we have a team of people who are experts in this. Leave that to us. We'll analyze the data and we'll give you back what you need. Now, there's some truth to the fact that they should know their products better than anybody. And if I'm the fast food chain, I want them to get that data so that they can continually analyze and help me do my job better. They just don't have to get that data at my expense. There are ways to cooperatively work this, but again, it comes back to just the right architecture. So what we call the first receiver is in essence setting up an abstraction close to the point of the ingestion of all this data, upon which it's cleansed, enriched, and then propagated again to the right constituent in the right time, in the right way. And by the way, I would add with the right security considerations and with the right data privacy considerations. Because if you look around the market now, things like GDPR in Europe and what we've seen in the US, just in the wake of the elections and everything around how data is treated, privacy concerns are going to be huge. So if you don't know how to treat the data in the context of how it needs to be leveraged, you're going to lose that leverage of the data. Well, plus the widget guys are going to say, look, we have to do predictive maintenance on those devices and you want us to do that. Okay, they say follow the money, let's follow the data. So what's the data flow look like in your mind? You got these edge devices. Yep. Physical or virtual? Doesn't have to be a physical edge. Although in a lot of cases, there are good reasons why you'd want a physical edge, but there's nothing technologically that says you have to have a physical edge. Collaborate on that. What do you mean by virtual edge? Sure, so let's say I have a server inside a retail outlet outfit and it's collecting all of my IoT data and consolidating it and instantiating or persisting it into a data store and then propagating it to a variety of constituents. That would be creating the first receiver in the physical edge. There's nothing that says that that edge device can't grab that data but then persist it in a distributed Amazon cloud instance or a Rackspace instance or whatever. It doesn't actually need to be persisted physically on the edge but there's no reason it can't either. Okay, so I understand that now. So the guys at Wikibon, which is a sort of sister or company of theCUBE, have envisioned this three tier data model where you've got the devices at the edge where real-time activities going on, real-time analytics and then you've got this sort of aggregation point, I guess call it a gateway. And then you've got, and that's I say, aggregation of all these edge devices and then you've got the cloud where the heavy modeling is done and that could be your private cloud or your public cloud. So does that three tier model make sense to you? Yeah, so what you're describing is the first tier is actually the sensor layer. The gateway layer that you're describing in the book would be characterized as the first receiver. It's basically an edge tier that is augmented to persist and enrich the data and then apply the proper governance to it but what I would argue is in reality, I mean your reference architecture is spot on but if you actually take that one step further, it's actually an end tiered architecture because there's no reason why the data doesn't go from the 10 franchise stores to the regional headquarters to the country headquarters to the corporate headquarters and every step along the way, including the edge, you're going to see certain types of analytics and computational work done. I'll put a plug for my friends at Hitachi Lumata in on this. There's like 700 horizontal IoT platforms out there. There aren't going to be 700 winners. There's going to be probably eight to 10 and that's only because the different specific verticals will provide for more winners than it would be if it was just one like a search engine but the winners are going to have to have an extensible architecture that will ultimately allow enterprises to do the very things I'm talking about doing and so there are a number out there but one of the things that and I, Rob Tiffany who's the CTO of Lumata, I think has a really good handle on and his team on an architecture that is really plausible for accomplishing this as the market migrates into the future. And that architecture has got to be very flexible not just elastic but sometimes we use plastic plasticity being able to go in any direction. Well sure, I mean up to including the use of digital twins and avatars and the logic that goes along with that and the ability to spin something up and spin something down gives you that flexibility that you as an enterprise, especially the larger the enterprise, the more important that comes, need. How much of the data, Don at that edge do you think will be persisted? Two part question, is not all going to be persisted, isn't that too expensive? Is it necessary to persist all that data? Well, no, so this is where you'll hear the notion of data exhaust or and what that really means is let's just say I'm, let's say I'm instrumenting every room in this hotel and each room has six different sensors in it and I'm taking a reading once a second. The ratio of inconsequential to consequential data is probably going to be over 99 to one. So it doesn't really make sense to persist that data and it sure as hell doesn't make sense to take that data and push it into a cloud where I spend more to reduce the value of the payload. It just, that's just dumb. But what will happen is that there are two things. One, I think people will see the value in locally persisting the data that has value, the consequential data and doing that in a way that's stored at least for some period of time so that you can run the type of edge analytics that might benefit from having that persisted store. The other thing that I think will happen and this is, I don't, I don't talk much, I talk a little bit about it in the book, but there's this whole notion where when we get to the volumes of data that we really talk about where IoT will go by like 2025, it's going to push the physical limitations of how we can accommodate that. So people will begin to use techniques like developing statistical metadata models that are a metadata, a highly accurate metadata representation of the entirety of the dataset but probably in about 1% of the space that's queryable and suitable for machine learning where you're going to, it's going to enable you to do what you just physically couldn't do before. So that's a little bit into the future but there are people doing some fabulous work on that right now and that'll creep into the overall lexicon over time. Is that a lightweight digital twin that gives you substantially the same insight? It could augment the digital twin in ways that allow you to stand up digital twins where you might not be able to before. The thing that, the example that most people would know about are like in the Apache ecosystem there are tool sets like snappy data that are basically doing approximation but they're doing it via sampling and that is a step in that direction but what you're looking for is very high value approximation that doesn't lose the outlier so like in IoT, one of the things you normally are looking for is where am I going to pick up on anomalous behavior? Well if I'm using a sample set and I'm only taking 15%, by definition I'm going to lose a lot of that anomalous behavior. So it has to be a holistic representation of the data but what happens is that data is transformed into statistics that can be queryable as if it was the atomic dataset but what you're getting is a very high value approximation and a fraction of the space and time and resources. Okay, but that's not sampling, you're saying? No, it's statistical metadata. My last company had developed this thing that we called approximate query and it was based on that exact set of patents around the formation of a statistical metadata model. It just so happens it's absolutely suited for where IoT is going. It's kind of, IoT isn't really there yet. People are still trying to figure out the edge and it's most basic forms but the sheer weight of the data and the progression of the market is going to force people to be innovative and how they look at some of these things. Just like if you look at things like privacy, right now people think in terms of anonymization and that's basically I'm going to delink data contextually where I'm going to effectively lose the linkages to the context in order to conform with data privacy but there are techniques, like if you look at GDPR there are techniques within certain safe harbors that allow you to pseudonymize the data where you can actually relink it under certain conditions and there are some smart people out there solving these problems. That's where the market's going to go. It's just going to get there over time. And what I would also add to this equation is at the end of the day right now the concepts that are in the book about the first receiver and the abstraction of the creation of the data from the consumption of the data look, it's a pretty basic thing but it's the type of shift that is going to be required for enterprises to truly leverage the data. The things about statistical metadata and pseudonymization pseudonymization will come before the statistical metadata but the market forces are going to drive more and more into those areas but you got to walk before you run. Right now most people still have silos which is interesting because when you think about the whole notion of the internet of things it infers that it's this exploitation of understanding the state of physical assets in a very broad based environment and yet the funny thing is most IOT devices are silos that emulate M2M sort of peer to peer networks just using the internet as a communication vehicle but that'll change. Right and that's really again back to the premise of the book. That's right. We're going from these individual products where all the data is locked into the product silo to this digital fabric that has an enterprise context not a product context. That's right and if you go to the tool sets that Pentaho offers, the analytic tool sets, let's just say now that I've got this rich data set assuming I'm following basic architectural principles so that I can leverage the maximum amount of data that now gives me the ability to use these type of tool sets to do far better operational analytics to know what's going on, far better forensic analysis and investigative analytics to do root, mine through the data and do root cause analysis, far better predictive analytics and prescriptive analytics to figure out what will go on and ultimately feed the machine learning algorithms ultimately to get to, in essence, the living organism, the adaptive systems that are continuously changing and adapting to circumstances and that's kind of the holy grail. You mentioned Hitachi Ventara before. I mean, I'm curious of what your thoughts are on the Hitachi. Two years ago we saw the acquisition and said okay, now what? And on paper it sounded good and now it starts to come together. It starts to make more sense. Storage is going to the cloud, HDS is all right, we've got this Hitachi relationship. But what do you make of that?  Yeah, first of all, I actually think the moves that they've done are good and I would not say that if I didn't think it. I just find a politically correct way not to say that. But I do think it's good and so they created the Hitachi Insight Group about a year and a half ago and now that's been folded into Hitachi Ventara alongside HDS and Pentaho. And I think that it's a fairly logical set of elements coming together. I think they're going down the right path. I mean, in full disclosure, I worked for Hitachi data systems from 91 till 94. So it's not like I'm a recent employee of them. It's 25 years ago. But my experience with Hitachi corporate and the way they approach things has been unlike a lot of really super large companies who may be super large, but may not be the best engineers or may not always get everything done so well. Hitachi's a really formidable organization and I think what they're doing with Pentaho and HDS and the Insight Group and specifically the Mata is well thought out and I'm optimistic about where they're going. So, and by the way, they won't be the only winner in the equation. There's going to be eight or nine different key players, but I would not short them whatsoever. I hope for them. The TAM is enormous. Normally Hitachi eventually gets to where it wants to go, which is a very thoughtful company. I've been watching them for 30 years. But through a lot of people, the Pentaho and the Insights play make a lot of sense. And then HDS used to work for HDS, a lot of infrastructure still, a lot of hardware. But, a relationship with Hitachi Limited that is, you know... Well, here's where I think that's important. Where do you see that third piece of the stool? So, this is where there's a few companies that have unique advantages with Hitachi being one of them. Because if you think about IoT, IoT is the intersection of information technology and operational technology. So it's one thing to say, I know how to build a database or I can build machine learning algorithms or whatever. It's another thing to say, I know how to build trains or CAT scans or smart city lighting systems. And the domain expertise married with the technology delivers a set of capabilities that you can't match without that domain expertise.  So that's why, and again, that's why I go back to, you know, the comparison to search engines where there's going to be like, you know, there's Google and maybe Yahoo. There's probably going to be more platform winners because the vertical expertise is going to be very, very important, but there's not going to be 700 of them. But Hitachi has an advantage that they bring to the table because they have very, very deep roots in energy, in medical equipment, in transportation. All of that will manifest itself in what they're doing in a big way, I think. Okay, so, but a lot of the things that you described, and help me understand this, are Hitachi limited. Now, of course, Hitachi data systems started, remember national advanced systems was a distribution arm for Hitachi IT products. Good for you. How many people remember it? I'm old. So like I said, I had a 30 year history with this company. Do you foresee that that, and by the way, interestingly, was often criticized back when you were working for HDS, as I go, yeah, there's still a distribution arm. But in the last decade, HDS has become much more of a contributor to the innovation and the product strategy and so forth. Right. Having said that, it seems to me advantageous if some of those things that you discussed, the trains, the medical equipment, can start flowing back through HDS. I'm not sure if that's explicitly the plan. I didn't necessarily hear that, but it sort of has to, right? Well, you know, I'm not privy to those discussions, so I would be conjecture on my part. Let's opine, but right, doesn't that make sense? It makes perfect sense. Because, I mean, HDS for years was just a storage silo. Right. And then storage became a very uninteresting business and credit to Hitachi for pivoting. But it seems to me that they could really, and they probably have a, I had Brian householder on earlier, I wish I had explored this more with him. But it just seems, the question for them is, okay, how are you going to tap those really diverse businesses?  Well, again, conjecture on my part, but one way I would do it would be to start using Lumata in the various operations, the domain-specific operations around Hitachi. Whether they plan to do that or not, I'm not sure. I've heard that they probably will. That's a data play, obviously, right? Well, it's a platform play. Yeah, absolutely. And it's an enabling technology that should augment what's already going on in the various elements of Hitachi. Again, this is conjecture on my part, but you asked, let's just go with this. We're riffin'. I would say that makes a lot of sense. I'd be surprised if they don't do that. And I think in the process of doing that, you start to cross-pollinate that expertise that gives you a unique advantage. I mean, it goes back to, if you have unique advantages, you can choose to exploit them or not. Very few companies have the set of unique advantages that somebody like Hitachi has in terms of their engineering and massive reach into so many, you know, Hitachi, GE, Siemens, these are companies that have big reach to the extent that they exploit them or not. One of the things about Hitachi that's different than almost anybody though is they have all of this domain expertise, but they've been in the technology-specific business for a long time as well, making computers. And so they actually already have the internal expertise to cross-pollinate, but whether they do it or not, time will tell. Well, but this is, it's interesting to watch the big whales, the horses on the track, if you will. Certainly GE's made a lot of noise like, okay, we're a software company. And now you're saying, wow, that's not so easy. And again, I'm sanguine about GE. I think eventually they'll get there. And then you see IBM's got their sort of IoT division. They're bringing in people. Another company with a lot of IT expertise, not a lot of OT expertise. And then you see Hitachi, who's actually got both. You know, Siemens, I don't know as well, but presumably they're more OT than IT. And so you would think that if you had to evaluate the company's positions, that Hitachi's, in a unique position, certainly have a lot of software. We'll see if they can leverage that in the data play. Obviously Pentaho is a key piece of that. One would assume, yeah. Final thoughts, for sure. No, I mean, again, I think I'm very optimistic about their future. I think very highly of the people I know inside that I think are playing a role here. You know, it's not like there aren't people at GE that I think highly of. But listen, San Ramon was something that was spun up recently, you know, Hitachi's been doing this for years and years, you know, so different players have different capabilities, but Hitachi seems to have sort of a holistic set of capabilities that they can bring together. And to date, I've been very impressed with how they've been going about it, and especially with the architecture that they're bringing to bear with Lumata. Okay, the book is the future of IoT, leveraging the shift to a data-centric world. Don DeLoach, and you had a co-author here as well. I have two co-authors. One is Weilio Riffy from Pentaho, Hitachi Ventera, and the other is Emile Berthelsen, a Gartner analyst who was with Makina Research, and then Gartner acquired them, and Emile has stayed on with them, both of them great guys, and we wouldn't have this book if it weren't for the three of us together. I never would have pulled it off on my own, so it's a collective work for sure. Don DeLoach, great having you on theCUBE. Thanks very much for coming on. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back. This is Pentaho World 2017, and this is theCUBE. Right back.


We're gonna play a quick game. I'm gonna give you some UK slang. Okay, and you have to guess what it means Painting painting painting painting No, I can see why you would think that pain like I'm sorry, but I'm craving some painting. It's a cat eye Yeah, that was my guess. It's when you and your mates want to want to have a painting But you want to bang at the same time. There it is painting. Yo, it's Painting it's just an attractive person. So I might say like we see is such a painting.  I'm into that.   Yeah Allow it. Allow it. So I'd be like allow it Allow it just means stop it. So it's kind of the opposite of how I thought bottle it was. Yeah, okay stop it proper belter proper belter Like a good singer. That's what I was thinking. I mean that definitely I'm being too literal though You are but I yeah, yeah proper belter It's when you eat too much food and you gotta undo your belt a little bit. This means really good That was a proper belt there. Okay, that episode was a proper belt To chaps so it's something you do.  Yeah, you've heard of that, right? You've never heard of that one screw the pooch or Bob Bob's is from the UK. I didn't know that Whatever Bob's your uncle Bob's your uncle. I'm gonna call it my bro's and we're gonna do a couple pank teams together. Yeah. Oh, you bottled it


A big hello and welcome to everyone who's tuned in. When we sent out promotional mailers for today's discussion on to shoot or not to shoot, someone called Ivy who heads a line production company wrote to me. She said that shooting on the ground has been like dancing among corona landmines for her group. And that line, I felt summed up the theme of today's discussion really, really well, especially with a lot of mixed opinions within the industry about allowing ad shoots and to choose to resume after both the butchers contracted the virus. So to discuss that today on creative talks, which will be streamed live across Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn, we have very prominent personalities from the ad and film industry. For a change, let me start with the youngest. We have Anushka Sen, actor and influencer, better known as Mani Karnika from the TV serial, Chanseki Rani. She's 18 years old and has 9.1 million followers on Instagram. Anushka, you're giving us some major social media goes there. Then we have Puneet Malhotra, producer, Dharma 2.0, which is Karan Johar's production house that exclusively focuses on creating ad films. Puneet also has directed popular films like Student of the Year 2 and I Hate Love Story. Hi, Puneet. Hi, Ray. We also have Agnelo Diaz, creative chairman of Densu Ages Network. He's also the co-founder of Taproot Densu, which literally gave every big agency a run for its money, even in its nesent years. We have Arun Ayer, founding partner, Spring Marketing Capital, who according to me has made the most viral lockdown video ad, featuring Sumit Vyas as the bichara, has been tortured into doing household work by his wife. Hi, Arun. You made that nice to be here. And lastly, we have Anshuman Chakravarti, head marketing, brand and corporate communications at Orient Electric, one of the most active advertisers in the country today. And his brand has also been endorsed by MS Dhoni for many years now. So welcome to Creative Talks, everyone. Thank you, Arun. Let me start with Aghi. Aghi, after the Bachchan scare and the shutting down of the studio where A.B. Jr. had dubbed for his web series, many prominent film personalities like Shekhar Kapoor have come out to say that it's dangerous to start filming in closed, interior spaces. Studios will become huge sources of infection. Do you agree? I agree with what he's saying, but I don't agree with the fact that it should stop because I don't think there's ever going to be a point where we are going to be able to say, yes, now it is safe to start shooting. So one of the misnormals of the lockdown is that everybody is waiting to see there. And the feeling is that when the lockdown is lifted, coronavirus will go away because that is the sign that it's gone. So I think we'll have to learn to live with it. Ironically, as it turns out with Mr. Bachchan and his son, probably if they were shooting, they may have not got it because they could have got it from home. So I don't know whether the solution any longer is to kind of avoid it. There may be the, we may have reached a stage where the only solution is to go through it and not around it or go backward because if it's going to be a lockdown for the next one year or so, then it anyway makes no sense. So shooting will resume, I think, but with greater care and greater cost and that's what will happen.  You know, for you and the Arma 2.0, it must have even closed the home. Actions were halted for two full months. Do you think we should step back and evaluate the risk further before going all out at the first given opportunity? I mean, it's a bit of a tricky question because you are going to have to evaluate the risks. It's, you know, but like Aggie said, you've got to step out of home at some point. So I don't believe in sitting at home and waiting for the pandemic to pass. That's never going to happen. You've got to go out. You've got to just really actually value the risk, see whether you have any loser, if I may say so at that point in time. How safe can you be? How safe is your crew? How safe is everybody on set? These are really important questions and these are the only questions that we kind of need to answer. Given those parameters, if you can manage to pull off a shoot, I don't think there's any reason that we should be sitting at home. As long as everybody's safe, you follow government norms and you go ahead and do the right thing, I think you can go out and shoot. Why not? Okay, Arun, tell me what apprehensions from prominent film personalities would mean for the advertising industry? You know, at the moment, we are hearing people largely talk about wanting to show us top shoots of TV series, web series and films. No one has really spoken much about ads, even though it technically follows the same process. What do you think? I think there's a reason for that, why that's happening also is because be it web series or films or TV stuff, it's longer durations of shoot, right? So it's many, many days of groups of people coming together versus in an ad film shoot, it is groups of people, but coming together for a short while, it's a lot more, you can control the environment a lot better. So I guess that's the reason. But that said, I think I agree with Aghi and Puneet. I think it is risky. Of course, we are living in a risky world. You've got to measure your risk, you've got to make sure that only people who absolutely have to be there have to be there. Earlier we were used to and Indian sets are very famous for just carrying along hordes of people, right? There would be three, 400 people on a set where actually the number of people you actually need would only be about 20 or 25. I think today it's getting rationalized to what it should have been anyways, where only the people who absolutely have to be there are getting out there and doing the work. So I guess this is the new reality and we have to like, I agree with Aghi and Puneet, we have to now find a way to work around this because we can't all be sitting at home and not do anything, right? So Anshuman as a marketer, what is your perspective? Should we go back to the lockdown as more, short exclusively in a work-from-home setup or embrace whatever little normalcy the world has to offer with restrictions? Well, I couldn't agree more to what Agnello, Arun and Puneet talked about. We have to resume life. Yeah, I was saying that while there cannot be any further agreement what Agnello, Arun and Puneet talked about, life has to resume and we have to live life with COVID. And these scenarios are tough scenarios. We'll have to find ways how to manage the crisis and how to restart working. As clients, we are also finding new ways of working. We do understand that we'll have to find new creative angles whether to revise scripts in a way which can be shot easily without much complexities, trying to work with not celebrities but junior artists where things are much more easier to control, having much more control at the sets where we do not want many, many people to light it around and various other things that have come up. And I must appreciate the fact that the producers' guild came up with the notification of 15th of March and they decided to stop the shooting of 19 which is a very proactive step from the producers' guild. And they also came out with a complete list of SOPs which are very, very detailed. And I think that's the right step and approach to tackle this current scenario. Okay, okay. And lastly, Anushka, you worked in 20 commercials, eight TV shows, a couple of mainstream films too. You know, as an actor, what are your thoughts? Because at the end of the day, I think actors are most vulnerable. They have to shoot without any protection while the rest of the crew can wear masks, gloves, PPE kits, whatever. But you can't. So what do you think about getting back out there? It's been four months since I went out of my house. I have not seen my door only and I really miss shooting and everything. I think just like Arun Sir said, TV shows or web series take a long time. Even to start a new TV show, the mock shoots, the dress trials and the launch and there's always a rush because they have to create bangs in order to launch it as soon as possible whenever the launch date is. So I think if I'm looking at shooting right now in this situation, what I would think is, I would not start with TV series and web series for now, but to some extent, I think I would do movies. I would be open to do ads or music videos because it requires less number of people. And just like you said, actors are the most vulnerable people right now because there's no mask, there's no safety when you're shooting. But if this precaution taken and if we are careful about, if you're following the rules, I think we'll be safe and we'll probably be out of the risk area. I think the most important part is not panicking and following the rules and norms which is there. If the set is fully with precautions and people are there to take responsibility and everyone around is with the PPE suit. So I think actors will be also safe and that would be my thing to look at right now. I just want to say one thing, I don't know, there was an image of a TV actor with a shield actually acting, which was doing the rounds, right? Which was doing the rounds because I think they kind of move it into the story and they let the character have the shield on within the serial itself. It was quite a moment. So you think that we can weave the reality in these commercials and these TV series, get these actors to wear all those masks on the sets? Not all the time, but I think in some context, it does make sense, right? If the storyline itself lends itself to the current context, you can do that. Arun, I also saw a television commercial recently. I think it's the lubricant brand and the artist in that TVC also are wearing visors. So it's getting a fairly common norm and people are experimenting to show the new normal in an artistic way. Yeah, I'm sure. It's a matter of time. I'm guessing someone makes a movie about this as well. It's going to happen really soon. Ram Gopal Verma is my guess. Puneet, you are going to be shooting an ad for Kurkure. I think you mentioned the day after tomorrow. I'd like you to take our viewers to what has changed on the ground post lockdown, in terms of how you shoot an ad, the size of the crew and the entire process. I think like Arun said, a lot has changed. We normally had about 100, 150 people conventionally on a set, even if you were shooting an ad. It's gone on to 30, 40. That's the crew strength at this point in time. So you reduce it to really, you're not one third or one fifth in that sense. Food is going to be packed. Most people are not going to be touching up, being served in the catered boxes. The BMC has its own norm, so the whole place is sanitized. I think from the producer's point of view, what shakes up the cost completely is that our setting days increase in a major way. There's a COVID insurance that's coming that you have to actually get in place. So on every level, there's a practical hurdle that you need to combat. And I think that's what's getting a little tricky, but I'm guessing it's the new norm. You know, like you started off saying, on this, is we are fighting or just sitting at home? I think we are all in a mood to fight it, but everybody's done sitting at home at this point in time. So I think the real test, right now we're all confident at optimistic and artifact, but the first real test will come and it will come when somebody from a shooting set actually gets forward. Then how do we react? Does everybody panic and run helter-skelter? Or do the naysayers come back and say, shut down everything again? Or should we hold our ground and say, look, this could happen anyway. Let's continue doing what we do. So that's going to happen sooner or later. It's not despite all the precautions and everything we do. Sooner or later, somebody from some set will get it. And the reaction of us as an industry will determine how we go forward. So far, it is all going to be fine because we'll be fighting. But when that happens, which voice prevails in the industry is going to decide actually the long-term future of the industry? I completely agree, Agnolo. In fact, the only assumption that I have in mind is that the reactions to these are also changing dramatically. Had this episode happened two months down, people would have reacted differently. But now, I think people are also maturing to the fact that we have to live with this virus and the pandemic effect on life and work. So I think the reactions are also getting gradually mature to the fact that we realize that something of this nature might happen to any of us. Makes sense. I think as an agency, are you still trying to say something? Oh, okay. Go on. I think personally and Jeremy, I think ad films are at an advantage with this kind of a setup. Because if you do manage to get COVID on an ad set, no one will ever know. The advantage is that you shoot for a day and then the team pretty much is in the box and everybody is on their own. As opposed to a film shoot or a TV series shoot where your schedules are much longer. So let's say I'm on set tomorrow and I managed to contract the disease from someone. By the time I'm diagnosed, it may be between four or seven days. Then your set is dismantled and everybody's moved on. So you can never really trace it back to an ad shoot in all reality. So in that sense, there's a bit of an advantage. But having said that, you still need to be as safe as you can. Yeah, but that still puts you at risk, right? Even if you can't trace it back to that particular ad. Of course. I just wanted to check, yeah, imagine getting it on a shoot of a face mask COVID ad. But I just wanted to check with Puneet when these cut down crews and larger crews, how are the unions taking it? Do you still have to pay what would have been the original crew? Because normally unions would react strongly to that where you're actually cutting down on employment by reducing say the crew with the lights and everything. No, I'm guessing it's a norm that's actually come from the BMC. So, you know, we are not liable to do any of that. I also think this is a genuinely a labor problem in Mumbai and around. So there's not so much labor in the first place. I know there are tons of people who are unemployed and I mean, it's really unfortunate and people are trying to help them in whatever way that they can. But I don't think there's a union problem at this point of time. In fact, it's working the other way right now. If you have more people on set, you may get penalized. I think that's... Anushka, do you feel safer going back on the set after what he said? I think, yeah, because you know, even I think that some point of time we have to go out and at shoots, I might still, you know, go right now because see, this thing is going on since four months and I don't know how long, you know, we have to wait. If we wait till the time the government says, okay, now there's zero cases. So the best part about, like the positive part about coronavirus is that in India, at least, that the recovery rate is 70% more than the, you know, people who are getting affected. Of course, the death rate is also like, you know, people are also catching coronavirus at 30,000 per day, which is very scary. But the recovery rate is also very, you know, very positive and I think very healthy. So I think panic should be not there. And of course, it's very tricky to shoot right now and very scary. You have to always be, you know, wondering that, oh my God, should I trust, should I do that, should I not do this, should I walk here or not. But I think right now we have to, you know, see that, you know, take the odds and you have to just shoot with, you know, utmost precaution and less number of people. You know, Arun, I'd like to bring you in here.  Tell me, are you scripting ads now, keeping in mind the social distancing norms, you know, less scripts needing a lot of people, you know, or close contact between characters, literally, are scripts getting adapted to the pandemic now? No, not anymore, Anita. Actually, this was the case of maybe two months back and, you know, where we were in the thick of it, we didn't know when it would open up and stuff. I think the world has moved from there for how long, I don't know. Because in this new world, one thing we have to be very ready for is things can change completely in two days from now. As of today, at this point in time, things are looking like we can, of course it's a lot of effort, like we just finished something where we shot in four cities. And there were four crews, so there were four DOPs, four cameramen who shot in four cities and we had to stitch everything together. Now, you know, so it is challenging, but that said, as of today, there is, in fact, there is a reverse push on, you know what, let it not look like there are constraints. Let's try and look as far as possible to make it seem as normal as possible. So of course, you do think four times before saying, okay, you know what, let's have an outdoor shot like this. You don't write outdoor shots very easily. You think of indoor spaces.  And we will know the full impact of it, maybe in the future. But as of today, the way we think, because we do, and I think that's true of creative people, right? You think with the environment in mind. And I think that's something that's going on. We are all very aware of what the environment is. So you do think and write, keeping all of those things in mind. But just a long answer to your short question of are we thinking only with the lockdown kind of images? No, we are not. You know, Anshuman, even you have recently shot for a new innovative oriented product. You know, as a marketer, what are the hurdles you had to cross during the shoot? Additional precautions or something that you had to take? Yeah, so our planning started sometime last month. And during that phase, we faced a lot of challenges because shooting was not allowed and there were a lot of restrictions all around. But finally we could, when the lockdown opened up, we could find ways to do the shoot because we had a new product to be launched this month on 18. So there were challenges and we couldn't go out. We had to figure out a solution in Delhi. So that was one. We had a lot of restrictions on how do we write the script so that there's less of human interaction as much as possible and how to minimize it, make it non-celebrity, do not construct a set. So those are the restrictions that were put into the entire scheme of things. So I think that put a lot of pressure on the creative side to deliver something. And that was the biggest challenge that we had. The second was that while we do not want to compromise on quality, how do we ensure that we get the same level of output with less number of equipment than many behind the DOP working for it? So those were the typical challenges that were there and we also decided that none from the client side would be there on the shoot.  And there was minimal presence of additional manpower or resources. People, in fact, we had advice to people to bring their own food from their homes. So even the artist, they've brought their own food from home and that's how the entire shoot happened within a eight hour shift. So Anshun, I was speaking to you and also I've spoken to some other marketers during this two, three month period. And they were saying that they are very happy that these lockdown ads which were made from home were working out at a budget which was like a fraction of a cost than a regular full-fledged shoot. So, Aggie, I'd like to come to you. Our market is going to be even more stingy when it comes to shelling out for production now because they've seen a small budget ad made from home. That's easy, right? I think it's like missing the forest for the trees or being penny-wise and ford foolish. By the time it's October, once the results come in and one smart fellow who's gone and done a proper ad and run away with the sales figures, they all come back to normal. But right now, many of them, if they are saying this, I think it's a short-term vision of saying, can I make an ad in this budget? Of course, in fact, I can make an ad in one fourth of even the budget that's being made now. But those are not boxes to take costs or not. All of these boxes exist in a larger box of whether the ad works. If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter how cheap you make it, right? So, I would rather spend 100 rupees well than waste 20 rupees is how I would look at it. What if you want to say something? How I love him for saying this, man.  It's just so right. But you know, I'm not sure how many people are even saying that. See, I think all said and done, at least, I think people are aware of what the world is going through. I think there is also a deep recognition that to be very honest, I think because there has been impact on media as well. And media, to some extent, there is original programming which is now coming back on team. And I think all said and done, I think people are recognizing that actually, and that's my experience. People are saying, let's spend a little extra. Let's make it look good. Let's make sure that the conversation of quality is back on the team. And I think that's actually been a huge breather because in all of this, there is so much conversation about logistics. But as a creative person, it's very scary when there is very little conversation about the quality of the output. That's equally important. Like Aggie said, there's no point in burning away money behind a mediocre product versus saying actually spending and making sure that you get some good stuff out there. Yeah, see, it's very simple, right?  Which one is longer? No, but I think for a lot of marketers who are not really doing well, there are some sectors who are doing exceedingly well and there are some which are doing badly, right? But they still want to be in the public eye so they want to keep the engagement going, but profits are not the same. So they want to cut down the first casualties always advertising and they want to reduce the production budget. That's like a natural flow, right? So that's the logic I was told, but I hope that doesn't... It's not an impossible logic, it's just a wrong logic because I would rather they don't actually spend anything at all, just wait for when they have one. Because like I said, if you can't stitch a proper suit of clothes, then don't stitch it. Don't stitch a suit which has short pants. Anshuman, do you agree? Active. I have a little different perspective while I agree a lot with what Anshuman was saying. It's a kind of a vicious circle. And the issue is that if the company don't have enough revenues at the moment, from where will this money come to make the best impact for that? And more than that, if the markets are not open, where do you sell your products? End of the day, one needs to analyze and figure out what is the best solution possible. In fact, let me tell you, it's a great example I must share with all of you. And we faced this challenge and we realized very quickly in the month of March that our traditional portfolio of fans whom appliances, lighting and switch gear with the current retail distribution setup might not be able to sell the product. We quickly figured out what really helps us to stay, remain and engage with our customers. And I believe many brands have done that in the recent scenario. And we therefore figured out something that makes us relevant to stay with our consumers and connected was to make a product which makes their life simpler and safer. And on 18th of this month, we launched the UV Sanitech which is a UV sanitization box where people can sanitize all their products of daily use. And we did a complete makeover in terms of marketing in terms of figuring out how we can reach out to the digital mediums. With the limited monies that we had, we produced two films. We looked at rewriting scripts in a way which are simpler. We looked at 3D as a format. We looked at using old footages, other creative that we can help to make this much more easier and comprehensible for people to work through. And this product is being sold online and doing wonderfully well for the last two days. In fact, almost going out of stock every day that I get the report. So I think while I agree with Agnela to certain extent, the issue is that we don't have money also at the moment to spend in that manner, which we really would like to, but we don't have it. No, Anjuman, I think the point was responding to the part of a question of Neeta's question where she said many clients are saying, oh, forever, now this will be the new cost because we can actually do it so cheap. So we are doing cheap films as well for clients who don't have money. In fact, some of them are so cheap that they are almost free. But we must all recognize that this is a stopgap. It can't be at least I think towards the end of her question, her clients, she felt that there are clients who are saying, this may be the new budget forever from now on because we didn't know films could be made so cheap. And I think that is flawed logic because you can't take something which is a stopgap arrangement because you have to be alive in consumers' minds and therefore you have to keep going now. But eventually you'll have to start getting stronger as a brand. You can't keep, if you don't have enough food as the brand of an individual, of course you stay on starvation diet because you have to get by those days. But eventually you have to become stronger. You can't be on starvation diet all your life or you remain weak all your life and was permanent in dimension. So it was about that part about the feeling that this new costing norm could be the permanent, new normal in terms of how you make films because that would then take branding and marketing everything 20 years back. I completely agree to that effect. Nelo, in fact, the only thing that I'd like to add on and Neeta was asking me before the interview about the costing, I said that the costing of production actually will go up. Now with the insurance, with the other things coming in, the SOPs coming in, the cost of production is going up. And end of the day it is not the producers or the directors or the production houses who would go to fit the bill. It is the marketer who is going to fit the bill. And eventually the consumer. So indirectly, yes. But the fact is that this is an area where the cost is actually going to go up. In respect of the fact in the current scenario, yes, we are looking at small scale films to tide over the situation, but I completely agree with you that's not a solution for long-term. This is only a stop-gap solution for the long-term. One needs to have a bigger horizon and look at a larger format to ensure that the brand has a far more stability and sustainability. Even Kunit and Anushma, I think both touched upon this COVID insurance. Kunit, if you want to say something, I'm sorry, I think I just... Creatively for us to shoot a film in these times is a nightmare. I mean, I get the whole money aspect of it is where the clients are also squeezed. But the fact of the matter is in a lot of ways, our cost of production has also gone up as higher. To sanitize is a proper set if you're actually going on to a set. And today's time is about two and a half lakh rupees daily. And that's a daily cost of sanitizing a set.  I understand doing a home shoot is far cheaper, but there is no fun. There is no fun as a creative to sit down and do something at home. You know, you're not... You miss the nuances, you can't actually direct or do things that you'd like to do. Like Arun said, you're thinking differently. You're not thinking out those spaces. You're restricted in every which way. And that's not the best situation to be in. So I guess everybody is squeezed on some level. But tell me about COVID insurance and of course marketers are footing that bill. Is that happening on a, you know, a definite basis now because, you know, otherwise when it came to insurance, just in a bit to be competitive, I think that was the first thing to be knocked off. So today because of the scare of the pandemic, are you necessarily ensuring that every shoot is insured and what does it comprise? So I mean, you're meant to take care of everybody's medical bills if someone gets COVID on set. You're meant to take care of the entire expenditure in that sense. The insurance is fairly reasonable. It's not something that breaks anyone's back. So everybody's fair in that sense.  So let's say they work on a project a week ago. They come on to your film and you realize that someone's come on to the film with temperature. So he's kind of detected on your set. He's not necessarily got COVID on your set. Right. So there's a lot of gray area in all of this as well. But I think we are fairly caught by insurance. Okay.   Do you feel, you know, marketers are kind of deviating towards alternatives if they can't shoot as freely at this point? No, you've endorsed some brands during this lockdown on social media platforms. What do you think? Is that an alternative at this point? Yeah, I think so. Like for now, because there's lockdown and we can't go out or shoot. So a lot of promotions, a lot of brand promotions, a lot of music videos, you know, promotions I did between the stop down. That's the work I was doing from home. And a lot of brands. I think this is an alternative for now. I think under the time, you know, we can go out and do the brand promotions.  But now it's all from home. And the best part about brand promotions at home for me will be, you know, I'm learning a lot of things because, you know, there's no extra crew when you're shooting these kind of stuff because nobody's allowed in my building for now. So you're not, you know, we don't have anybody, you know, any extra crew. So whatever we are shooting, they're just shooting on our own, me and my parents. My parents are helping me out with that. And all the deliveries, what are they, you know, the dates and whatever the content is, we're all, you know, discussing over Zoom calls and that's how it is working out. Which is fun for me, I'm learning new things and I've never done this before, but I'm doing this right now and it's quite fun. But of course for a long period of time, I think I would love to, you know, go out and shoot because I really miss doing that. I really miss going out and shooting with new people, you know, with the whole crew and everything. It's been four months. I think when it is going to like that answer.  So do you think it's still a safer bet, you know, anyway, social media consumption is hitting the roof? So you can continue to engage people on social media right now? Yeah, Neeta, I completely agree with what you're saying. Social media is becoming even more relevant in current context and will remain and will grow. However, the mainline cannot be ignored and as things get normal, we will continue doing more of mainline work. Will, in the interim period, we figured out new ways of working. We worked with influencers, tech bloggers, et cetera, for this launch. We also looked at how we can repackage our own old content, the old footages. We looked at finding out how we can also look at using 3D as a format for creating storytelling and information awareness. So different kinds of stuff that we tried out during this period, including even GIF promotions, which are, I mean, in a way, a non-static format of advertising also. So all that was an attempt to innovate and try out different things to stay engaged with our consumers. And I think that really worked that far. But will that be always a constant? I don't think so. We will continuously evolve and find new ways of engagement. But audiovisual as a content medium will grow and that will remain a very important medium for communicating with our consumers. Okay. Arun, I'd like to give you a compliment. You have shown that you can make a lockdown on point lockdown add which can go viral for all the right reasons and not looks very similar to the other ones that other brands are dishing out. I am talking about the Sumit Vyas ad. So do you think we can continue to make some lockdown ads for a little while longer till we are sure about what happens to the pandemic and still be creative? So, I just want to correct. So there is a difference, right? So, and that was done for a brand called Wake Fit where it wasn't really an ad. So, Wake Fit is a brand where we've been running, we have a content calendar for the brand where there is continuous content creation that happens through the year. So, this was actually when the lockdown happened that content calendar actually paused because the content that we were running was an on-ground promotion and we did something called the sleep internship which became quite big and that paused. And we said, okay, if we have to now change, you know, we have to continue the calendar. How do we now create content? Obviously with all the lockdown going on. But finally, when you're aware of the core of the brand which was the whole, it's a sleep solutions company. We said, what is the one thing because of which people are losing their sleep? Because the whole country was losing sleep over various things, right? So we said, okay, that seems like a great peg to create a whole bunch of content. So we created a whole bunch of content led by our branded content guy called Sandeep Balan in our firm. And he and his team actually ended up creating about nine videos. And if I tell Anshuman as a marketer what it cost, he'll be super happy with it. So, and it didn't, it doesn't cost much but actually we had to work a lot on the craft of it on making sure that it connects with people. And then of course it took a life of its own and just kept traveling because I think we probably touched a raw nerve somewhere. So I think that's what happened. But I don't, that is not the reality today as we speak. That was the reality about two months, two, two and a half months ago. As of today, like I said, again, where we will be in 15 days from now, we don't know. But as of today, that's not the reality we're living in. We are actually people are want and brands who are seeing merit in being out there are actually wanting to look, feel, sound as normal as they can. Okay, I'd like to bring Puneet and Aghi here. You know, there are a lot of other factors involved. You know, there are delays due to permission, police permissions, welfare association societies being cagey about letting crews enter their localities. You know, sometimes last minute crew members are getting infected, difficulty in maybe flying actors off from one state to the other, quarantine rules. So tell me who is suffering more? I'm not just talking about cost. Overall, you know, is it the creative agency? Is it the market or is it the production house? Puneet, you want to start? One second. I said, I think it's everybody. I think it's unfair for us to say that, you know, this person is suffering and this person isn't. Or let's say, you know, the client is in the production house and isn't. I think everybody is working with a certain kind of restriction. We are not being able to do everything we do normally. And in some way or the other, I think everybody is taking a hit. I'm not being able to employ as many people. I'm guessing the client is not being able to pay us because they don't have enough money. And it's just a circle that's just, you know, getting everybody to suffer. I think all we can do is just pray that this thing happens and it's done really soon. And everybody gets back to normal. I think that's the only way we can move forward.  To be honest, I think the only silver lining is that we've all learned to be patient. There's not much that you can do. Everybody has to be far ahead in terms of technology. You've already got to be, you know, with it to kind of cope with everything that's happening at this point in time. Most shoots were remote shoots for the last four months. So everybody really need to be on top of the game in that sense. But I mean, I'm only hoping this is not the new normal. And this is the new normal only for, like, another couple of months. And eventually it will be gets back to normal. Because this is not the new normal. This is not something you want to live. Agi, in the new normal, who's suffering more? Agencies, production houses or marketers? So I think in, if you go from the top to the bottom of the food chain, at the very bottom is the actual worker, right? The guy who works on the set. So he may be suffering lesser in value of how much he's hit. But larger in what proportion of his income is certainly 100%. But at the very top, which his market is, he may be suffering much larger in value than say the salary of a worker who's working on a set. But it won't be everything that they have. So it's in reverse proportion. I think agencies have clients who are on retainer. Some of the clients have reduced the retainer. So there is other medium to other media to work on and other inputs that you give clients for which you get paid. But the lower down the value chain you quote will be a lesser amount, but almost everything for that party. So if you go right at the very bottom, it will be, say a guy who's working on a set as a set maker's apprentice, it will be 100% of a set or 90%. So I think it's a tough situation. I think we have to, I just say, let's just live short-term and not long-term because the more we look at the scoreboard and the more we look at the larger picture, the less optimistic it seems and demotivating it seems. So it's better to live week by week and see what we are going to do in the coming week or the next three days, and eventually it will pass. But there's no point in looking at the finishing line because the finishing line is not very pretty nor is it visible. Ansterman? Well, I agree with that. No, in the value chain, while everybody is hit, everybody is under stress in the entire value chain. But the people who are really the workers behind producing this artist, I think they are the most impacted in terms of earnings and while this reduces further as you go up. What is important here is to understand that while in every industry, there needs to be a level playing field. And I'm very happy with the High Court judgment which came out yesterday, which is pronounced that people who are above 60 years of age can now act in films and advertising, which was actually banned earlier. We need to understand the film and the advertising industry is unlike any other industry where you need child artists, where you need people who are older to portray your story. So I think everybody should have a fair chance to get an opportunity of a livelihood. And this was also very interesting, this one that came yesterday. And I believe that once everybody has an equal chance to gain money and to perform, that's the right approach of bringing back the economy to scale and that will happen gradually. But I think impact, yes, I agree, it's all to the value chain, but people who really are suffering, other people who are the technicians, the life man, the makeup artist, et cetera, et cetera. Arun, would you like to add to that? No, I think everybody is in a soup, right? Everybody is in a soup. Everybody is trying to find solutions. And I think the more we work on making sure that we are keeping the engine running, the better it is for everybody. Because brands needed, marketing partners needed, like all the way down, right? Like what happens to the technicians? They obviously they are hit on their daily wage on us. What do they do? The more this engine churns, the better their chances of earning a livelihood. So it is a tough situation. I think everybody is in it together. I think we can just hope that we can keep the engine churning parallely as the virus fades out of our lives, hopefully at some point in time. But yeah, I guess that's the only way to go forward. No, I like what Anshuman said. They should get a fair chance to work and if they can attend weddings, why can't they work for a fair living? So 65 plus and above I mean. So it's a risky proposition, but they also need to make a living. They also need to, you know, it's just, it's one of those things, you know, there's there's no right or wrong here. You know, I'd like to ask Puneet and Anushka here.  You know, also most highly at risk. You know, there is always a stigma and fear associated with COVID. We've heard cases where doctors were not allowed to enter societies if you have, you know, just for the fear of bringing back COVID to the society. Now, you know, it's not a profession production.  Yeah, you have to have human interaction in exchanges even with the skeletal stuff. So how do you deal with that on this sets Puneet, the emotional quotient? Everybody's scared. Is that going to hamper productivity, creativity? Oh, productivity for sure. I think, like I said, an example, setting days, for example, I have doubled. You normally construct a set in three days. You now need six days. There's that much labor that's coming. So I think on every level, you've got to kind of, you know, evaluate the risk. There are certain things that you can do from like social distancing. There are certain things you can't. Like two actors have to get close to each other on set. I mean, how do you avoid those things? So I think it's a bit of a calculated risk and, you know, what you can do and what you can't. That's it.  She said, you know, on the set, she experienced severe chest pain and people instead of showing some empathy, literally moved away from her expecting, thinking that she has COVID and then she got a flood of messages on Twitter asking, you know, do you have COVID? Do you have COVID? It doesn't sound really nice and, you know, very correct at that point in time. So, you know, Anushka, when you decide to go back on the set, is that something that you'll be afraid of that people will not, will be sensitive and you might not really get the treatment that you deserve despite putting yourself at risk there? Correct. I read that interview myself and I was really, I was wondering that why people were treating her like that because, okay, no matter, you know, of course I understand the risk and I totally agree with everyone that, you know, you're putting yourself at risk and of course two actors have to come close to each other and you can't have six feet, you know, a distance between each other. But I think no matter what happens, you know, humanity should be there. It should not be insensitive.  So I think there was a doctor or somebody responsible that because these kind of things are going to happen. Not only because of COVID, even before COVID, you know, when I was also shooting sometimes, somebody got sick suddenly or somebody fell and, you know, hurt themselves. But of course, because this COVID is there, I think one doctor, somebody should be responsible and just, you know, help people out because, you know, we should not forget humanity and try our best because I really salute the doctors and nurses. You know, they are just risking their lives, you know, for 20, 25 days, they don't return to their houses, to their families. And if they can risk their lives, that too, because they're treating somebody. So I think one person can take the responsibility of, you know, taking care of the crew and the customers.  Get a doctor on this side. Little more. Well honestly, you can't actually do that at this point in time. Cases all over the city are shooting up in such a big way, right? You cannot actually pull out a doctor to get him on set. As much as it would be needed at this point in time, I don't think it's the most appropriate thing to do to pull a doctor on set. I don't think the government would permit that either. So yes, that is the ideal situation. We should have a medical expert on set who can take care of these things. But in the larger scheme of things, I don't think that's possible at this point in time. And one last question to everybody, you know, after lying below because of, you know, fast drying out cash reserves, because of two months of inactivity due to lockdown, of course, lots of brands are suffering.  Do you think shoes are going to pick up in a big way? I don't know. I think it will. I think it will, because I think the, and it also depends on category. I think overall, we will see a push when it comes to, because I think the demand has to come back, right? It has to come back and somewhere there has to be a little bit of a push to propel it. I do see and I do know of brands and even platforms like the big e-commerce platforms have big plans for their sales. They all go on sale now because of the festive season. All of it is coming unless something, you know, completely drastic happens in the country where we have to, you know, completely closed down, at this point, it doesn't seem like that's gonna happen. But I do see spends going up in the next couple of months. And I think there will be a host of new brands that we will see, which we wouldn't have seen before, which will come into play because of the digital ecosystem actually taking off in the country. And there are a whole host of brands which are going to now start playing there. We will see, and I think the proof is out there, right? We've all seen what's happened to Amazon globally given the pandemic and how much they have grown. So I think that is the reality. So it's gonna be interesting, but I do see a positive way forward. Agi? Yeah, I think it's going to be, I mean, I don't know whether, I'm not sure whether the response will be there from the people, but definitely there's going to be a push for a manufacturer's and marketeers, a very big push in this coming festive season because anyway, there is a push every year. And this year, I think the push acquires a change of desperation. So there will be a big push. I think there will be above average response because I think even people will sense that we've now living comfortably with the pandemic and they will sense that these are opportunities to buy that they will not get again. So there will be a good enough response. And I can only hope this kick starts some amount of demand because with everything that the government is announcing, I don't think there's enough done to generate demand. And then that happens, lowering of taxes, increasing of subsidies, none of that will work until demand is generated. So for me, I think this festive season will actually deliver the answers because the last thing we want is a huge burst in the festive season and then we go back into the session around November, December. Panshaman? Well, I would say that it is a time for cautious optimism. What I understand is that perhaps the worst is behind our back.  While on the retailing end, I find that now the offline retailers are really gearing up. They are preparing with the new normal. There are shields, the visor, the sanitizer in every shop. And gradually we find customers are also keeping it offline. Online, we all know the trends, it is zooming up and Amazon trip cards of the world are obviously gaining. Interesting would be to see how actually consumers consume, but a lot of still desirable as Agnello mentioned to bring back the economy on track, government, everybody has to play a part. I would say that the consumers who were really paranoid two months ago are not so paranoid and they are getting practical and figuring out ways of how they can make their preferences in a very safe and a cautious way. So end of it, I would say that it's a cautious optimism that I could predict at the moment. Puneet? Oh, I'm hoping for the better. I completely agree with what Anshuman said. I'd like to be optimistic. I'd like to believe that the consumers are going to go out and purchase or perhaps sit at home and purchase, but I do think that the worst is definitely behind us. I think it's only going to get better or back to normal. Anushka, what do you think, in your case, I think we are hoping that we get to see even a lot more ads. We do. We have similar thoughts. Yeah, of course. When I was just seeing through pictures, it was Mahi's birthday, Mahi Charj's birthday few days back. So I was going through the pictures that we took between the adshoots for Oryan that I shot with Anshuman Akul. And I was missing the whole scenario, but I was thinking which we could just go back to normal. So I really hope and I agree with everyone that we really hope that we go back to normal or at least we find ways to be safe and do the things we used to do. So I think it's very important for us to know that the young of the country are looking at it positively and are optimistic about the future. I'm so excited to introduce you to the young Oryan. Let me tell you that Anushka is also our social influencer and he just received our package of information and product and I think she's going to do something at her home to produce a small digital film for us. Yes. There's a lot of work around. But we also hope that that ad with Dhoni like Chachu and Chicky ad goes up on air soon and you get starting, we start shooting with Muni on that one. Yeah, that would be so much fun. I am looking forward to it as well. Fantastic. So I guess on that note, I hope I can sum up. I believe every adversity teacher has a few things in this case like we were discussing, you know, something called collaborative remote production where some team members are collaborating remotely. Directors are directing over video calls. Some people skeleton staff on the location. So I guess there are always ways to circumvent the obstacles in the part without really breaking the rules or even compromising on safety. So let's just hope that, you know, we as Indians don't get too creative and start resorting to Jugal which might not really be in our best interest right now. So thank you, thank you so much everyone for joining me. Puneet Arun, Agi Anshaman and Anushka. It was great having you on Creative Talks. Thank you. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you. Bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye. Bye everybody. Bye.


Oh my God, why would you do that? Debut, debut. Quickdraw is 3 AP, but there's really no cheap abilities right now, dude. Pass lead elite is 9 AP. You used that detector, yeah, that sounds like a good idea, dude. We'll keep escape artists. I don't know how I could even get Quickdraw, dude. I'd have to like drop like some, I'm getting rid of post up, biggest second post up. Closer, comms, comms, comms, bro, I really think team team is like, I don't wanna say it's pointless, but like wait till next week. It's not too early, I just feel like that speed, I feel like honestly, the speed probably more important for your DBs, really didn't, cause I feel like Tyree Kill ain't really frying nobody or nothing like that. So it's like, it's really hard to go downfield to where the speed matters on your wide receivers. Yeah, you need 40. I have 40 dolphins, so I have 88 speed Tyree Kill, but it's not like I'm going up top with him. Knockout? Oh, come on, Ramsey. First game with Jalen Hurts. First game, first game, boys. Bro, I feel like TV fired just bags as sh** now, dude. I mean, the Bot Wars tournament is good, that's good reps, dude. Free form, free form. Dude, I got so used to playing Loop, that when people started running zone, I was kind of lost. Dude, start playing zone, I was like, what the f**k do I do? Hurts has Quickdraw and Closer, Closer. Why does he have Closer? Because hopefully I can get escape artists. I'm selling shambles right now, dude. I don't know why I'm being cute. He hasn't had one man-beater out here. Knockout, there you go, good sh**, Snead. Oh my God. My defense is so good, boys. So good, so good. Running weekend league, no, I probably won't play weekend league for a while, honestly. What happened with Watson? Who's Watson? Deshaun Watson? He was suspended six games, right? He'll be back. Oh, 11 games? 11? Isn't that like a weird number though? Like, ain't that like an awkward number to suspend somebody 11, right? Like, did you think they did that just so he plays Houston first and has like a crazy, a crazy game? Oh, he fried right there. Geez, back with good sh**. This dude's the best, bro. Parm just catches everything, dude. I mean, bro, can we get that knockout on the running back now? Come on, man. Ah, good job. Knockout, oh! Chrono, I don't know if you've paid attention too much, but I've run one defense every play. Now, I don't know what, why you need to figure out, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not like I'm switching around playbooks, you're like, oh yeah, that's what we lab for right here, boys. Free form, free form, free form. Jalen is amazing. You see his release, it's so smooth. Jalen is good, worth every penny. I mean, why would you not want Jalen Hertz leading your team? If you could pick any quarterback in the history of the NFL, why'd you not pick Jalen Hertz to lead your team? But Jordyn, he's like a dweeb. Like, he'll play five, like, he don't even talk to the chat. He just will just like dweeb it out. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, Jordyn, he just like, you know, I did a Jordyn face before like this. He don't even do like breaks to talk to the chat. He don't ask the chat questions. All right, this looks like it's about to be a missile. I don't know what this is here, boys, but oh, he's nervous. He's nervy. Oh, that's why we put that deep blue in the middle chat. See that? I can't lie, Eric Rowe got over there crazy. I don't know how to activate escape. I feel like I should have got it by now. I'm kind of dotting, aren't I? Like, we're having a good game. See, I don't know, he's doing a good job, I don't know if he's playing manor zone. I really don't have any idea. So that's just kind of a little bit. Let's touch down. Come on, man. Hurts, I'm telling you, Hurts is the, he's the buy, boys. Look at him just put it in there. Let it, look at him put it in there with his release. The YouTube comments want to go crazy with the release, put it in there, comments I'm making. But you know, I'm just, this guy got to call it how I see it. You see, you see how he releases. I actually have to run with the quarterback for escape artists to get activated. I can't pass. It has nothing to do with passing. Run, I swear, I had it. Remember I had it with Josh Allen? Did it was runs? I can't lie. My man, Surtain is getting whopped today. Tackle. Who keeps sending out your running back? Are you getting just whopped like this, bro? Thank you. Jalen Hurts is going off my team on y'all team after this game. Let's go, Vaan. You get no field roles, let's go, man. I mean, I'm dominating this game with Jalen Hurts. Debut, debut, debut, debut. And we're running this kickback for the debut because that's what I like a lot. Maybe I'll run it back. Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo. Yo, DB Fire low-key be bagging it because they just get back there so fast. They're like, this is a big first down to get, honestly. This is like old school W right here, dude. You're in DB Fire, what do you do? Oh no, I can't pass lead that up. Come on, I know it's a dot right there, though. I just gotta like, honestly, I got a free format sideways, honestly. I got a free form side to the right. Nah, I pass lead it up a little bit so that's what caused it to like get, he got undercutted because I passed lead up. GG's, thanks for playing, man. But the tight end is so bad when it's time to block, the tight end just literally can't block, dude. I use Kansas City Playbook, mannturf.com, ebook coming out soon, man. The offensive ebook is already out on Man Turf, boys. Tampa Bay Playbook is my offense.